Military Review

Drag until victory

84
Army equipment is a conservative thing. Many of his samples have been used for decades. The most telling example is the knapsack, which was put into service in 1874, and with which the Russian army forgave only at the end of 2015, when a new army bag came to replace the veteran who had won a good ten of large and small wars. Yes, and other necessary elements of equipment, such as vests, unloading or tactical backpacks, usually with difficulty to achieve recognition, and for a long time were used by special forces, reconnaissance or airborne units, the most susceptible to various innovations.


However, in the list of innovations in military equipment there is clearly a white spot, the existence of which is perhaps no less traditional than the good old Sidor, which served the army for almost a century and a half. This is a white spot - the lack of devices for carrying goods. Moreover, even the problem of carrying goods during combat operations is rarely put, although, of course, it is always present, in one form or another, and is usually solved in ways as ancient as the world: carrying it in your hands or on your shoulder. There is even some kind of cunning in this, they say, that it’s worth the healthy guys to move a crate there. In part, this has objective reasons, since motorized rifle companies and battalions in the state have a developed transport base (usually BMP or BTR), which easily carry all the necessary cargo: weapons, ammunition, food and water. For example, a grenade launcher platoon of a motorized rifle company (from a brigade) as part of 26 is a man who has the heaviest portable armament (20 AK-74, 6 AGS-17 and 31 ATGM) with a total weight of 1020 kg, has three BTR or BMP, on which all This weaponry is transported.

It would seem that there is no need for any special ways of carrying cargo. However, this question is very important, if we consider it more carefully.

Tactical need

In 1954, French troops in Vietnam suffered a phenomenal defeat at Dien Bien Phu. In this village, French troops occupied the former Japanese field airfield and created a powerful stronghold on it, in which there were 14,5 thousand people and another 7 thousand people in the area. These troops were reinforced. tank a battalion of 10 tanks, aviation, as well as a powerful defense, consisting of 7 forts and 49 fortified points. However, the French suffered a crushing defeat, ending in the surrender of 10,8 thousand soldiers and officers, most of whom died in captivity. The fortifications were taken by assault, and only 78 people could escape from the siege ring. Another 858 people were wounded were evacuated by agreement between the French and Vietnamese.

It was one of the most famous victories of the Vietnamese commander, Vo Nguyen Giap. Its root was that the Vietnamese carried out a logistic operation, which the French considered completely impossible. They carried on their hands at a distance of about 500 km through the impassable jungle everything necessary for the 50-thousandth army and the siege, including howitzers and mortars with a large supply of shells. 24 105-mm howitzers, 20 75-mm guns, 16 rocket launchers BM-13, 20 120-mm mortars, 80 37-mm anti-aircraft guns, and around 100 machine guns, I-wrenches, and I-wrenches. There are newsreel footage, captured as Vietnamese soldiers dragging dismantled cannons along a steep, slippery path. It was a huge victory for logistics.

Drag until victory

Vietnamese soldiers are dragging the American 105-mm howitzer М101 through the Fadin pass before the battle for Dien Bien Phu

This experience in the USSR and Russia was studied relatively little, although during the Great Patriotic War there were often cases when soldiers dragged ammunition for tens of kilometers, when muddy roads blocked the supply of cars and even tugs. The success of the logistic operation at Dien Bien Phu, of course, cannot be explained solely by the Vietnamese habits of similar ant work. Here a great role was played by careful preparation for carrying the entire cargo, its distribution between the fighters, the creation of special units of porters, the supply of troops with special devices for carrying heavy loads.


Photos of a later time, 1960-e, Truong Son Trail. The girl bears eight 82-mm mines without fuses, the weight of the load is about 24 kg

In any modern war, there is also often a situation of the need to carry heavy loads over fairly long distances, over difficult terrain and inaccessible to automotive engineering, sometimes under enemy fire. Troops that can carry loads in the most rational way have a strong tactical advantage. Sometimes it can lead to big and significant victories. And on the contrary, reliance only on equipment and the neglect of ways to carry goods rationally can cause severe damage.

If you further develop the tactical side of dragging cargo, then the question arises: is it necessary? If there are a lot of vehicles in the troops, motorized rifle units are well equipped with transport, then what's the point of being engaged in rational handling of cargo? In favor of carrying, you can make a few arguments.

First, in the defense, a motorized rifle company is defending a stronghold up to 1500 meters along the front and up to 1000 meters in depth. This means that even with the presence of armored vehicles (which has its own tasks in battle and its position, which is why it can be used as a vehicle very limitedly), carrying loads hundreds of meters in length is a completely ordinary matter. Even ammunition for rifle arms turns into a decent pile of cargo, which must be spread to the position. For example, one AK-74 rifle company ammunition is 28,8 thousands of cartridges, or 26 zinc round number, which is 312 kg, and together with the boxes - 390 kg. Besides him there are still grenades, ammunition for machine guns, AGS, grenade launchers, rations and water. By the way, water is required only for drinking 4 liters per day per fighter, and the weight of water for a company as part of 126 people will be 504 kg for one day. And 201 kg of daily rations per pack.

While there is no battle, carrying this load is no problem. But in the conditions of battle, when the main part of the company is occupied, the supply of even ammunition turns into an intractable task, and the weight of the cargo that the infantry motorized infantry needs to transfer to each other, increases dramatically. For example, there is one person from each branch, a total of 12 people from the whole company. Only one rifle ammunition will have about 32 kg or box per person. This is a burden that a person carries with difficulty. For example, according to labor standards, the maximum weight per arm should not exceed 25 kg. No, of course, that the fighter will carry the box with the cartridges to the position, but he will need time to restore his breath and strength, at least 20-30 minutes. At this time, he was a little fighting. This is where the need arises for rational ways of carrying goods, which is that the fighter can transfer about 30 kg over a distance of 1-2 km, and at the same time be able to restore strength and combat capability in a few minutes.

Secondly, the Afghan practice has shown that the theories of motorized infantry fighting, set out in the regulations, are somewhat different from the combat reality. So, motorized rifle actions were very common apart from armor, often several kilometers from their armored vehicles. In this case, increased ammunition was taken, up to 500-600 cartridges for AK-74. This kind of ammunition for a company weighed already 810 kg and it was necessary to carry it on its hump, along with personal belongings, grenades, as well as “kollektivka”, that is, group armament: grenade launchers and machine guns with ammunition. The grenade launcher platoon, of course, could not carry all its weapons on itself, since the weight of the ATGM and AGS alone without ammunition exceeded a ton and for each of the 26 a platoon man would have 45 kg overweight, and with increased ammunition more. Because this weapon was distributed among other fighters.


Afghanistan. One example of the irrational carrying of cargo. The machine gunner drags on himself, obviously, a box of 7,62-mm cartridges, weighing 27 kg.

Thirdly, if the stronghold was engaged for a long time, then the ammunition could reach zinc per fighter. 130 zinc in boxes - this is already 1950 kg. This is only automatic cartridges, and there were still machine guns (RMB could have up to 3000 cartridges per barrel, these are 15 stores with a total weight of 90 kg), grenades, rocket launchers, soldering and water. This was a necessity in the event of a hard and long battle, and in Afghan practice, such strongholds tried to deliver more ammunition, as far as armor or helicopter capabilities were enough, and then the remainder surrendered to the changers. In this approach, the war was not so much a fight, how much dragging.

And such situations in any war, in any theater of arises arise in a multitude. Meanwhile, the possibilities for dragging weights on the hands are very limited. According to labor standards for loaders, the maximum load should not exceed 50 kg with carrying on 60 meters, lifting in hands - no more than 25 kg. For young men at the age of 18, the maximum load should not exceed 15 kg, and it is this age that makes up the bulk of the rank and file in the Russian army and most of the work, including the handling of cargo, rests on it. Of course, you can train a soldier or make them carry more and more, but it either takes time or is bought at the cost of quickly expending strength and fatigue. A soldier tired of being dragged is not capable, his observantness and reaction are greatly reduced, he cannot shoot quickly and accurately. To exhaust a soldier by dragging goods on his hands, in essence, means giving the enemy an advantage. So, to engage in rational methods of carrying goods more than necessary.

Pull down to the guns

The whole question now is how to do it. In American sources, some attention is paid to the issues of carrying goods, due to the increase in personal equipment weight against the load norms recommended by physiologists. If the optimum load is within 22-25 kg, then now the equipment of the American soldier is 35-40 kg, and for some specialists (radio operators, mortar gunners, machine-gunners, etc.) it can exceed even 45 kg. Repeated attempts to reduce the weight of personal equipment failed, and this circumstance compels the Americans, and other armies of the NATO countries, to engage in issues of more comfortable wearing personal equipment. In their experience it is clear that for personal equipment there are two of the most rational ways: a vest-unloading and a backpack.


French soldiers in full gear. In the hands of them tactical backpacks, which are taken to combat operations.

Certain hopes in this sense are placed on technical innovations. Thus, for several years, the LS3 robot mule, developed by DARPA, was the pinnacle of American military technological inventions. The objectives of this development are more than transparent: to shift part of the load carried by the unit onto this robot mule. However, in December 2015, this development was comprehended by a sad ending: the US Marine Corps abandoned it due to too much noise generated by the robot when walking.

Another development, which received great popularity, was represented by various types of exoskeleton, allowing to increase the wearable weight up to 100-120 kg (despite the fact that according to the labor standards of the movers, it is allowed to carry 50 kg over a distance of 60 meters). Americans are also trying to achieve an increase in the speed of movement of a person in the exoskeleton and even hang armor on him. Similar developments are in Russia. However, the exoskeleton has a number of points, by virtue of which it is unlikely to become a mandatory set of equipment for any fighter. This technical complexity, and the need for maintenance, and the need for batteries (and he himself - the additional weight). Add the possibility of damage by bullets and debris, the failure of dirt, water, frost, as well as limited work in the exoskeleton in a half-bent position, lying or moving in it crawling. At the exhibition, the fighter in the exoskeleton looks cool, and the position, most likely, he will be a good target for the enemy. The exoskeleton, however, is very useful for engineer and engineering units.

It is worth noting that in the Western approach, emphasis is placed on personal equipment, and the “collective” is almost forgotten. It seems that this is the reason for the growth of the load of each soldier in the US Army and the impossibility of reducing this weight. We don’t need to copy this bad approach. On the contrary, the development of the means of rationally carrying precisely “collectives” creates considerable opportunities for solving the task posed of rational transportation of goods.

Several people are free to carry a load that is unaffordable for one person. A classic example is a stretcher, on which you can lift up to 80 kg of cargo. For two carriers, 40 has kg of weight, which is quite acceptable. Especially if the stretchers themselves are made with exact observance of all the rules of ergonomics. Stretcher is, according to a study of the Soviet VTsIOT, conducted back in 1929 year, one of the most rational ways of carrying and lifting weights. But it was found out that if you hold a stretcher in your hands, as is usually done, this leads to quick fatigue and pain in your hands, since the load is on the ligaments, and not on the muscles. Keeping a stretcher on your shoulders is much better, and this is the best way. VTsIOT proposed an original innovation in the development of the idea: a stretcher strap. It was a short vest, not fastened in the front, on which under the sleeve armholes are stitched strong loops, which are passed through the stretcher handles. In total, the porters lift the stretcher, pass their handles through these loops, and with free hands are ready to go to the end of the world: the load of the stretcher falls on the strongest dorsal muscles. It is very suitable for military use, especially since the loops for pens can be sewn to the vest-unloading. In addition, porters not only can carry cargo, but also hold arms in their hands and retain their combat readiness, which is tactically important.

The stretcher vest turned out to be comparable to another classic - the “goat”, another most rational way of carrying goods. "Goat" is a board with a cross stop for cargo, equipped with shoulder straps. She put on her back. A porter with a goat could carry up to three pounds (48 kg) of cargo. and strong - and even more. Today, tourists have a descendant of "goat" - the easel backpack, which combines the advantages of a shoulder bag and a "goat." The severity of the machine is rationally redistributed to the back and hips. The system "Yak" of this design allows you to carry up to 70 kg.


System "Yak": in front of the frame to accommodate the cargo, behind her shoulder straps and belt.

In principle, it was possible not to abandon the “cider” completely, but to supply it with this very machine. The military version of the easel backpack must, of course, be different from the tourist variety. Firstly, the ability to unfasten the bag and fix another load on the machine, for example, a box with cartridges or shells. Secondly, the ability to detach the straps and turn the machine into a sledge-drag. They can be fastened to the straps with a special rope, and the fighter can drag them with about 40-50 kg of dragging, including lying down. According to the experience of the war, this is the only way to drag something through the space constantly being shot through by the enemy. One or two drag machines can help get the wounded person out of the shot area. In all cases, the hands of the porter remain free, and he remains alert.

There are still many other different "collectives" that are quite heavy and do not lend themselves to a stretcher or easel backpack. These can be shells and mines in boxes, anti-tank systems, heavy machine guns and even large-caliber mortars and artillery pieces. Several people can smoothly lift and carry a very heavy load over a long distance. Experiments were conducted in which 28 people were able to lift a weight per tonne and carry it over a distance of 7 km. By this method, the Vietnamese dragged their howitzers and mortars through the jungle. A very simple device is required for this: a shoulder strap made of a safety belt, at the ends of which steel loops are sewn. It pounces on the shoulder or is put on over the head, distributing the load on the dorsal and femoral muscles. For engaging the cargo, you can have a steel hook in the form of a corner frame and a weight belt with a clip about 1,5 meters long, with steel loops sewn at the ends and equipped with a climbing karabiner. Four people with such belts can easily carry a large and heavy, up to 200-250 kg weight box, hooking it with hooks at the corners and holding the load with his hand. Two, three or four can easily carry a log by hooking it with cargo straps. With the help of such shoulder straps and cargo straps, you can carry the wounded, seated and lying down, any lengthy packaging, containers, large-caliber ammunition, and many other goods and weapons, up to guns. It is only necessary to screw in the necessary number of porters, in proportion to the weight of the load, so that each one should have no more than 30-40 kg, and if necessary, long-distance carrying - no more than 25 kg. For example, a 122-mm D-30 (weight 3200 kg) 128 man can handle a long-distance howitzer carrying. These straps can also pull the car out of the mud, if necessary. The advantage of this strap is its simplicity, uncomplicated manufacturing, low weight and the possibility of including it in the mandatory set of equipment for each fighter. The presence of shoulder straps in the equipment allows any unit to make a temporary division porters. And in this case, the hands remain free, and the porters with the cargo partially retain combat readiness.

As can be seen, very simple in design, devices for rational transportation of cargoes give motorized rifle units a great deal. They can carry their regular cargo, spending the least amount of effort. They can take and drag some other cargo, such as additional ammunition or heavy weapons, and even do it under enemy fire without losing their combat capability. It turns out that Suvorov’s method of fighting is available - a secretive foot march and a sudden attack of the enemy in an unexpected place, on the move, using all the advantages of surprise, stunning massive fire, causing panic even among a trained and experienced opponent. There are many benefits to make these devices for the rational carrying of goods a mandatory part of the fighter's equipment.
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  1. zzdimk
    zzdimk 27 January 2018 06: 42
    +6
    I would like to make a review in the form of a shoe review. Without a comfortable and wearing, because, you won’t take anything anywhere ... I absolutely didn’t like the US Army men - there is no universality. For each case, its own couple - complete nonsense!
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 27 January 2018 07: 17
      16
      I categorically did not like the US armekas - there is no universality.


      Take professional boots for construction in shops for occupational shoes ... used the heavens and the earth in comparison with the rest of consumer goods and socks are protected and your feet are warm and comfortable ... beauty.
      Article plus definitely ... in my own skin experienced the carrying of various weights.
      1. avt
        avt 27 January 2018 09: 25
        +6
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        Article plus definitely ... in my own skin experienced the carrying of various weights.

        good Well written. good
        System "Yak": in front of the frame to accommodate the cargo, behind her shoulder straps and belt.
        This thing is quite spectacular for itself anatomical backpacks with a 60 + displacement when carrying something heavier than 25 kg. Yes, and really such a frame and
        more than a little can be adapted to a mass of useful nishtyaks on a campaign. And taking into account the fact that it is not built into the backpack, in general a universal unit for carrying.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 27 January 2018 10: 10
          10
          In fact, the problem is much deeper. And such stuntings are not completely solved. All our ammunition closures are terribly uncomfortable in terms of carrying.
          The same applies to packs for group portable weapons. Which, firstly, has not changed much since the time when cheapness and a “shaft” were needed, and secondly, they absolutely do not interfere with the standard individual equipment of a fighter.
          1. avt
            avt 27 January 2018 11: 31
            +2
            Quote: Spade
            In fact, the problem is much deeper. And such stuntings are not completely solved.

            request But does the sinful Az claim that this frame is, “The Yak of the“ Wunderffaff of Logistics? ” wassat By the way! The original version of this framework is still used by Sherpas when transporting climbers in the Himalayas. It’s just a very useful addition for carrying loads ..... let's say this - at 30+, when you can’t even out with any straps of an assault climbing anatomical backpack
            Quote: avt
            And taking into account the fact that it is not built into the backpack

            I remember such a US Army option when you pull it out from there, a separate frame is a very useful option, especially when
            One or two drag machines
            quite solidly connected. Not a panacea, but convenient and practical. The main thing that would not be expensive - to quit is not a pity ... Although a pity. bully
            1. tasha
              tasha 27 January 2018 12: 54
              +3
              Here’s an interesting photo
              1. tasha
                tasha 27 January 2018 12: 56
                +9
                Time passes, but nothing changes :)
      2. tchoni
        tchoni 27 January 2018 11: 40
        +2
        You’ll go to fight, generally take a break at a tourist shop. Three bucks is enough for you.
      3. realist
        realist 27 January 2018 12: 04
        +2
        I do not agree - overalls shoes (vanguard in particular) are terrifying both in the form of the pads and in the quality of workmanship. for a year, careful wearing of engineering is not enough.
  2. Herculesic
    Herculesic 27 January 2018 07: 31
    +7
    Well, you can use small gel balloons to which the load will be tied! wassat Oil painting - a company on a matinee! lol If our fathers and grandfathers were preoccupied with the problem of exorbitant loads of goods, the war would go on for a couple of years!
    1. ARES623
      ARES623 28 January 2018 12: 19
      +3
      Quote: Herkulesich
      If our fathers and grandfathers were preoccupied with the problem of exorbitant loads of goods, the war would go on for a couple of years!

      And if their fathers-commanders were puzzled by the problem, the war could end a couple of years earlier. From 1882 to the present, the bag has not undergone any changes! It’s time for the book of records on mossiness ....
    2. aristok
      aristok 19 July 2018 11: 10
      0
      Quote: Herkulesich
      Well, you can use small gel balloons to which the load will be tied! wassat Oil painting - a company on a matinee! lol If our fathers and grandfathers were preoccupied with the problem of exorbitant loads of goods, the war would go on for a couple of years!

      Why expensive and rarely available helium?
      You can do with methane - the load capacity is only 2 times less.
      Helium 1,116 Lifting Force (kg / m³)
      Methane 0,580 Lifting force (kg / m³)
    3. yehat
      yehat 30 July 2018 14: 45
      0
      in 1941 they were puzzled by the problem - it ended simply with a giant throwing of weapons
      it is impossible to substitute the logistics of large-scale transportation of weapons and equipment by improving the loading of people. If a gun needs a tractor, then a tractor is needed. And in hundreds you can carry a gun in your hands 1-2 times per war. This is an incident, not a guide to action.
      if you need to go far from the BMP, then in addition to the BMP you need buggies, ATVs, ostriches, mountain sheep and other vehicles. Not super backpacks and stretchers.
  3. tasha
    tasha 27 January 2018 08: 46
    +8
    Enough benefits to make these devices for the rational carrying of goods an indispensable part of the equipment of a fighter.

    Eh .. All these useful and necessary little things fall into the army after much thought of military minds in high ranks, which are heavier than a briefcase, pens and caps do not raise anything ...

    The US FILBE staff kit includes a carbon frame cargo frame, by the way.
  4. Izotovp
    Izotovp 27 January 2018 09: 46
    +5
    Good article on a very important topic. So, in vain, without a deep search and analysis, there are already such solutions to the issue that the author offers only to think about and look for ways to solve this problem:
    http://www.gruppa99.com/product/t10-gruzovaya-ram
    a

    https://www.gearshout.net/source-dynamic-weight-d
    istribution-system-sistema-raspredeleniya-nosimoy
    -nagruzki /
    https://www.gearshout.net/mawashi-razrabotala-ekz
    oskelet-uprise-effektivno-snizhayushhij-obshhuyu-
    nagruzku-do-80 /
  5. shuravi
    shuravi 27 January 2018 10: 30
    18
    About this photo.



    Well and comments AFTORA:

    Afghanistan. One example of the irrational carrying of cargo. The machine gunner drags on himself, obviously, a box of 7,62-mm cartridges, weighing 27 kg.

    Thirdly, if the stronghold was engaged for a long time, then the ammunition could reach zinc per fighter. 130 zinc in boxes - this is already 1950 kg. This is only automatic cartridges, and there were still machine guns (RMB could have up to 3000 cartridges per barrel, these are 15 stores with a total weight of 90 kg), grenades, rocket launchers, soldering and water. This was a necessity in the event of a hard and long battle, and in Afghan practice, such strongholds tried to deliver more ammunition, as far as armor or helicopter capabilities were enough, and then the remainder surrendered to the changers. In this approach, the war was not so much a fight, how much dragging.


    Mityek, if you don’t understand something, ask so.
    Firstly, this is early Afghanistan, judging by the uniforms and weapons, the year 1980-81.
    Secondly, this is not a march, it is just a transfer of cargo from a helipad to a stationary checkpoint combined with the rotation of personnel.
    Of course, it looks strange from the sofa to carry boxes to the "hump". And in fact, you can’t drown so far.
    But here's the thing, firewood in Afghanistan is sold by weight, because a wooden box is no less valuable than the ammunition itself. And it’s cold in the mountains at night.
    1. captain
      captain 27 January 2018 11: 05
      13
      "shuravi
      But here's the thing, firewood in Afghanistan is sold by weight, because a wooden box is no less valuable than the ammunition itself. And at night it’s cold in the mountains. [/ Quote] "
      We often write scientific and other articles based on the words of one soldier or officer. As a rule, Hero of the Soviet Union. It is believed that if a person received such a high rank, then he knows everything about the war in Afghanistan (and not only). It is still a fashionable thread to ask a marshal (general, colonel), who at the time of this rank had already forgotten what he was doing as a lieutenant-commander of a platoon. I give an example; 10 years ago I read an article by my colleague on 108 MSD
      , where he said that a soldier in the mountains fought with a load on his shoulders 60-70 kg. With all due respect to this Hero of the Soviet Union, he was telling a lie (there is a different, not literary expression in the army). Well, the infantryman could not fight with a load of 60-70kg, despite the fact that our Uzbeks, Tajiks, and the Slavs themselves weighed up to 70kg. I could not, I say, as a former company, and then a battalion commander 3 GSB 181 SMEs.
      1. shuravi
        shuravi 27 January 2018 12: 43
        +4
        Quote: captain

        We often write scientific and other articles based on the words of one soldier or officer. As a rule, Hero of the Soviet Union. It is believed that if a person received such a high rank, then he knows everything about the war in Afghanistan (and not only). It is still a fashionable thread to ask a marshal (general, colonel), who at the time of this rank had already forgotten what he was doing as a lieutenant-commander of a platoon. I give an example; 10 years ago I read an article by my colleague on 108 MSD
        , where he said that a soldier in the mountains fought with a load on his shoulders 60-70 kg. With all due respect to this Hero of the Soviet Union, he was telling a lie (there is a different, not literary expression in the army). Well, the infantryman could not fight with a load of 60-70kg, despite the fact that our Uzbeks, Tajiks, and the Slavs themselves weighed up to 70kg. I could not, I say, as a former company, and then a battalion commander 3 GSB 181 SMEs.


        Well, I didn’t run around the mountains by the nature of my service:



        But I saw something:




        Because and how I can distinguish where the march, and where the banal unloading with rotation.

        As for your remarks, I have noticed more than once that lovers of the search for the "trench truth" do not seek this truth. They seek out everything that will first of all fit their vision of the world.
        Because, why be surprised that when it comes to strategy, then they are unable to quote quotes from soldiers. And if it comes to trench life, then the generals are already in authority, the main thing is that they fit the picture of the world.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 27 January 2018 13: 11
          +6
          Quote: shuravi
          Well, I didn’t run around the mountains by the nature of my service:

          That's the problem ...
          The carrying of heavy loads has not been tested on its own skin, and therefore nitpicking to trifles. What difference does it make, a “march” or a “banal unloading with rotation”, it is still inconvenient to carry around.

          Here, damn it, for example, capping under the "shooter". Well guessed the handles to attach to it. Often detached, made not round, but from a planed bar, which after a hundred meters begins to cut its hands ... at least it is. But the funny thing is that these summer demi-season arms. Because a hand in a three-fingered fur does not crawl under this bar ... Rationalizers, damn it.
          There was a rope. It is not convenient to carry, the box is swinging. Replaced by a bar. The box no longer sways, but the bar cuts the hand and is useless in winter.
          1. shuravi
            shuravi 27 January 2018 18: 06
            0
            Quote: Spade
            Quote: shuravi
            Well, I didn’t run around the mountains by the nature of my service:

            That's the problem ...
            The carrying of heavy loads has not been tested on its own skin, and therefore nitpicking to trifles. What difference does it make, a “march” or a “banal unloading with rotation”, it is still inconvenient to carry around.


            It was about that in the photo. There are objections on the merits?

            Here, damn it, for example, capping under the "shooter". Well guessed the handles to attach to it. Often detached, made not round, but from a planed bar, which after a hundred meters begins to cut its hands ... at least it is. But the funny thing is that these summer demi-season arms. Because a hand in a three-fingered fur does not crawl under this bar ... Rationalizers, damn it.
            There was a rope. It is not convenient to carry, the box is swinging. Replaced by a bar. The box no longer sways, but the bar cuts the hand and is useless in winter.


            Have you tried the crew, that is, together, as the on-board technician is busy, removed from the car on the taxiway and bring these boxes to the 20 helicopter?

            Then another 4 ATGM box of similar weight.
            So do not tell me about the burdens.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 27 January 2018 19: 26
              +1
              Quote: shuravi
              Have you tried the crew, that is, together, as the on-board technician is busy, removed from the car on the taxiway and bring these boxes to the 20 helicopter?

              I tried in two faces, in the winter (that is, when my hands really do not hold the capper), unload two “Urals” 152-mm rounds to the cellars. While the rest were digging trenches under the guns. Hands got up with the letter "g" and did not straighten themselves. About legs and I’m not talking. Because I had to constantly jump into the body to pull a couple of boxes to the board.

              Quote: shuravi
              Then another 4 ATGM box of similar weight.

              What a fuck 8)))))
              How did this "assault" do ???
              Remove the 12 capper in two faces, pull out the rockets, put them on the “horns” in three pieces, jump onto the armor and load them into the drum. And all this for a while ...
              1. shuravi
                shuravi 27 January 2018 20: 43
                +1
                Quote: Spade
                Quote: shuravi
                Have you tried the crew, that is, together, as the on-board technician is busy, removed from the car on the taxiway and bring these boxes to the 20 helicopter?

                I tried in two faces, in the winter (that is, when my hands really do not hold the capper), unload two “Urals” 152-mm rounds to the cellars. While the rest were digging trenches under the guns. Hands got up with the letter "g" and did not straighten themselves. About legs and I’m not talking. Because I had to constantly jump into the body to pull a couple of boxes to the board.



                1. That's exactly what they tried, no more. During the service, I also tried a lot of things in relation to carrying weights, but it was about what I had to do very often.
                2. From all that has been said, it follows only that you are a conscript soldier. Well, the cadets of military schools are very familiar with rigging. Both in summer and winter. By the way, the “Ural” has six tons of maximum load, despite the fact that no one has brought it up to this. Someone you were weak.))


                Quote: shuravi
                Then another 4 ATGM box of similar weight.

                What a fuck 8)))))
                How did this "assault" do ???
                Remove the 12 capper in two faces, pull out the rockets, put them on the “horns” in three pieces, jump onto the armor and load them into the drum. And all this for a while ...


                You are obviously bad with arithmetic.
                12 is clearly smaller than 4 + 20. Despite the fact that the weight of the box is C-8, 68 kg, which is up to the ATGM, then in the container it is about 45 kg, how many boxes I do not remember exactly, but in every way no more than 10 kg.


                So your aplomb stated here:
                That's the problem ...
                The carrying of heavy loads has not been tested on its own skin, and therefore nitpicking to trifles. What difference does it make, a “march” or a “banal unloading with rotation”, it is still inconvenient to carry around.

                This is a chick squealing. hi
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 27 January 2018 21: 12
                  +1
                  Quote: shuravi
                  1. That's exactly what they tried, no more. During the service, I also tried a lot of things in relation to carrying weights, but it was about what I had to do very often.

                  We just usually did four of them.

                  Quote: shuravi
                  Well, the cadets of military schools are very familiar with rigging.

                  Uh ... Do you even know what "rigging" is? 8))))))))))))) And what does manual unloading of closures have to do with this?

                  Quote: shuravi
                  By the way, the “Ural” has six tons of maximum load, despite the fact that no one has brought it up to this. Someone you were weak.))

                  8))))))))))))
                  One capping with an 152 mm shot weighs 86 kg. Unload, and I'll look at you 8)))
                  Quote: shuravi
                  12 is clearly less than 4 + 20.

                  It's one thing to carry them on a relaxed day. Quite another is with the father-commander, who has a stopwatch in his hands.

                  Quote: shuravi
                  This is a chick squealing.

                  The stump of 8 is clear)))))))))))))))) Only again do not complain about me. 8)))))))))))))
                  1. ARES623
                    ARES623 28 January 2018 15: 57
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    Uh ... Do you even know what "rigging" is? 8))))))))))))) And what does manual unloading of closures have to do with this?

                    You are lost in the subject. It is one thing when you deal with manual transshipment of cargoes by means of mechanization, quite another thing - walking (skiing) for 20-30 km with a sider of 25-30 kg, not counting the standard weapons and steel headgear. When you remove the bag, jacket, T-shirt, and on your shoulders bruises from the straps of the duffel bag. And with all this hitch it is necessary in 9 seconds to boot into the compartment in the BMP. And also the banks from the dry, well, be sure to bury themselves in the rib during the peshkodral march, as you don’t put them. At that time, they threw us a NATO ration. Eating it was disgusting, but falling on occasion is safe, because all the cans there were from some kind of soft polymer. Out of habit, after the first marches, the combat readiness of the units was very conditional, but then they got used to it. The topic of equipment deserves close attention, because even today you sometimes see fighters in awkward clothes with a “sidor” behind them.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 28 January 2018 20: 09
                      0
                      Quote: ARES623
                      It’s one thing when you deal with manual transshipment of cargoes by means of mechanization, it’s quite another thing — walking (skiing) 20-30 km with a sider 25-30 kg

                      No, my friend, these are all facets of the same problem. There is a third side: the lack of space for property.
                      1. ARES623
                        ARES623 28 January 2018 21: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        et all facets of the same problem

                        I do not agree. In one case - the poverty of the economy, in the other - for a soldier with his problems unknown to the parquet generals.
                    2. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 28 January 2018 22: 26
                      +1
                      Quote: ARES623
                      I do not agree. In one case - the poverty of the economy, in the other - for a soldier with his problems unknown to the parquet generals.

                      It's not as simple as it seems.
                      There are generals from GRAU who are quite possibly not parquet at all. But they may not even suspect a problem with the same capping for the arrow. Because they are not infantry. And the infantry generals are very likely to know about the problem. But they do not decide how to be this box.

                      In theory, specialized scientific organizations should deal with ergonomics in the army, because such problems are not solved at the general level. And if they decide, then it turns into quiet horror.
                      Here take a late Soviet soldier. Put on him everything that is supposed from the services of the RAB, clothing, food, chemists and engineering. And then try to get this soldier to comply with the standards, for example, on landing and landing in the IFV. It’s just a real circus coming out.
                      Why? Because we did not have an organization that would have to take into account all the "Wishlist" services.
                      1. ARES623
                        ARES623 29 January 2018 17: 47
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        And the infantry generals are very likely to know about the problem. But they do not decide how to be this box.

                        To begin with, there are no infantry generals in our army. And this is important. Already at the level of the regiment, the commander manages forces from various branches of the armed forces. And even the MCP commander (on the BMP-3), in addition to the rifle units, has two batteries of self-propelled 100mm howitzers. Only, judging by the state of the MCP, no one has yet taken care of this. As far as I am aware, there are no positions in the MCP involving artillery education. Well, I strayed.
                        It took several thousand soldiers to lose in order to introduce the "Afghan" and some other changes, which "Everything is not as simple as it seems." Yes, it’s not so simple, it’s even easier ... You just need to mention (justifiably) the problem to the Collegium of the SV on the board of the Moscow Region, and everything will fly like a radio wave lubricated with fat.
                        One of the stories recalls how Nicholas 2, testing the soldier's equipment, walked 30 miles. I don’t know how true this is, but they didn’t add up such legends about Soviet generals. One thing pleases, in the armored personnel carrier they made a ramp for landing. And while so far with all the x .... th that hangs on you, you jump into the BMP assault force, and also in the field "on the go", it is good that the handle of the shoulder blade will cut through the landing door, not your leg. And it seems to the circus when you remember. And when you jump there like a monkey, other words come to mind, and all are unprintable .... But they survived, and NATO did not dare to run into the "clowns".
                  2. shuravi
                    shuravi 28 January 2018 21: 35
                    0
                    Quote: Spade

                    We just usually did four of them.


                    So what?


                    Uh ... Do you even know what "rigging" is? 8))))))))))))) And what does manual unloading of closures have to do with this?


                    It seems that you do not know, a hundred it is.))


                    One capping with an 152 mm shot weighs 86 kg. Unload, and I'll look at you 8)))


                    Well? And how much does the same P-50-75 weigh in a container, in the know?))


                    It's one thing to carry them on a relaxed day. Quite another is with the father-commander, who has a stopwatch in his hands.


                    And did you imagine that charging the BC on alarm is carried out on a relax? How little you know about military service.

                    The stump of 8 is clear)))))))))))))))) Only again do not complain about me. 8)))))))))))))


                    Has anyone complained about you? Well, this is not for me. )))
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 28 January 2018 21: 58
                      0
                      Quote: shuravi
                      So what?

                      8)))))
                      Oddly enough, it's much easier than 8))))

                      Quote: shuravi
                      It seems that you do not know, a hundred it is.))

                      Just the same I know. And the work of the rigger manually does not provide for carrying heavy loads.

                      Quote: shuravi
                      Well? And how much does the same P-50-75 weigh in a container, in the know?))

                      Less. Moreover, I’m not sure that you unloaded them with whole machines.

                      Quote: shuravi
                      And did you imagine that charging the BC on alarm is carried out on a relax?

                      No, I didn’t imagine. Just unlike you, I do not consider this an outstanding personal achievement, remove the solid 24 drawer with convenient handles from the machine.

                      Quote: shuravi
                      Has anyone complained about you? Well, this is not for me. )))

                      Oh, oh .... They wrote to me, for which they soldered a warning to me ...
                      1. shuravi
                        shuravi 29 January 2018 22: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Spade

                        Oddly enough, it's much easier than 8))))


                        Did you make a discovery?


                        Just the same I know. And the work of the rigger manually does not provide for carrying heavy loads.


                        You are wrong. The work of rigging just provides the POSSIBILITY of using small-scale mechanization. But it does not preclude the manual movement of these.


                        Less.


                        I see, you don’t know.

                        Moreover, I’m not sure that you unloaded them with whole machines.


                        Are you talking about yourself? This is true, during the term of service, such "feats" as unloading vehicles with ammunition are rare.


                        No, I didn’t imagine. Just unlike you, I do not consider this an outstanding personal achievement, remove the solid 24 drawer with convenient handles from the machine.


                        But you, however, are a lover of lies. To begin with, you and your “philosophies” got into a conversation about Afghanistan, about which you only have an idea about movies.

                        Oh, oh .... They wrote to me, for which they soldered a warning to me ...


                        How do you still love to lie.
                2. wehr
                  27 January 2018 21: 17
                  +3
                  In my opinion, you inadequately perceived the topic. It is about how to improve the fighting qualities of the army, and not about finding out who was carrying more and heavier.
              2. avt
                avt 28 January 2018 13: 24
                +1
                Quote: Spade
                Because I had to constantly jump into the body to pull a couple of boxes to the board.

                Yes-ah-ah-ah-ah .... ,, Ural "load-unload, this is not ZIL. Az sinful at once felt the difference after ZIL-ka, what is it to throw something into the body, Urals" From one my memories ached, including my lower back bully
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 28 January 2018 14: 12
                  +1
                  A person simply has some small nitpicking to particulars.
                  Here is an example: mortar calculation:

                  At first glance it’s convenient, and you can go to the mountains ...
                  But the question is: where is their things.
                  1. shuravi
                    shuravi 29 January 2018 22: 16
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    A person simply has some small nitpicking to particulars.
                    Here is an example: mortar calculation:

                    At first glance it’s convenient, and you can go to the mountains ...
                    But the question is: where is their things.



                    But you are a credible liar.
                    It was all about this photo:
                    https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2018-01/151703770
                    4_54tvb1t.jpg
                    And my comment:
                    Firstly, this is early Afghanistan, judging by the uniforms and weapons, the year 1980-81.
                    Secondly, this is not a march, it is just a transfer of cargo from a helipad to a stationary checkpoint combined with the rotation of personnel.
                    Of course, it looks strange from the sofa to carry boxes to the "hump". And in fact, you can’t drown so far.
                    But here's the thing, firewood in Afghanistan is sold by weight, because a wooden box is no less valuable than the ammunition itself. And it’s cold in the mountains at night.

                    Objection essentially that you can, or just blow up your nose with bubbles?
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 29 January 2018 22: 58
                      +1
                      Quote: shuravi
                      But you are a credible liar.

                      Your account has been terminated.
                      I'm starting to fear for you. 8))))))))))))))))))

                      The author in the article pointed to the problem. Which really exists. You climbed with unnecessary small nitpicking to the author. Which are ABSOLUTELY not related to the topic raised in the article. What the hell is the difference in this photo? This is a march, this is the transport of cargo from the helipad to the checkpoint ... In any case, it is UNCOMPLETABLE to drag the box. And this is a reinforced concrete fact, which the author absolutely correctly pointed out.
                      Will there be stupid objections to the inconvenience of carrying this?

                      Further, I already showed to avt, using an example, that the problem is still not being solved.
                      And here you got in with your cries of "credible liar", "blowing bubbles with your nose" ... Can't read? Can't comprehend what you read? Or do you hope that I will respond to your insults, and they solder me another warning?
            2. Archon
              Archon 30 July 2018 15: 18
              0
              and if the box had two wheels like a cart in a supermarket, one box would have dragged at least a thousand of them
          2. ARES623
            ARES623 28 January 2018 16: 03
            0
            Quote: Spade
            Because a hand in a three-fingered fur does not crawl under this bar ...

            That's the point. A box with cartridges for AK in 30 kg with one hand can not be taken, even without mittens. The pens are nailed as if they were designed by a soldier of rape. Even for short distances, I carried them with a trouser belt or a piece of rope.
        2. Wicked Wicked
          Wicked Wicked 27 January 2018 15: 25
          +1
          well, no one fought with such weight on their shoulders! It is about how much I had to carry on myself, I was a “tweezers” and my “belongings” weighed no more than 35 kg, but the “chickens” were at times, in the literal sense, heavier. I served in the Airborne Forces, 350 Airborne Forces, I don’t know how your “dashing” fighters felt there in the mountains, and our guys dragged everything that could be carried away (meaning from weapons) because the spirits didn’t communicate with us, the difference is Humming weapons have always been on our side. In the event of a sudden attack, everything was very easily taken off the shoulders, since the entire load was located on the RD-54 and not in the duffel bags like the “mabuta”, it was enough to unfasten the waist belt and carabiner on your chest and you are free! On the fighter there was only a BRA bra. about RD - 54 google to help
      2. lesnik1978
        lesnik1978 27 January 2018 14: 39
        0
        Why is he lying? I myself saw women carrying 40-50 bags of grain, although they weighed almost that much.
        1. captain
          captain 27 January 2018 16: 03
          +1
          Quote: lesnik1978
          Why is he lying? I myself saw women carrying 40-50 bags of grain, although they weighed almost that much.

          Carrying and fighting are two different things.
    2. shura7782
      shura7782 27 January 2018 11: 21
      +3
      a wooden box is no less valuable than the ammunition itself. And it’s cold in the mountains at night.
      We used them not only as firewood. Construction of houses, dugouts, positions.
      1. shuravi
        shuravi 27 January 2018 12: 32
        +3
        Quote: shura7782
        a wooden box is no less valuable than the ammunition itself. And it’s cold in the mountains at night.
        We used them not only as firewood. Construction of houses, dugouts, positions.



        The wooden "architecture" of Soviet troops in Afghanistan is a separate issue.
      2. Dedall
        Dedall 27 January 2018 17: 51
        +3
        Most of all I liked the boxes from 120-mm rockets to the "grad". The length of 3 m allowed to build everything. And in those places where we shot, we filled the zinc with earth and built the walls outside the tents. It is a pity that they couldn’t close the top of the tents and they shone under electric light. From this I still have the habit of tightly closing the windows in the evening.
        1. shura7782
          shura7782 27 January 2018 19: 19
          0
          Yes, they built it from what they had. We used bomb bombers and boxes from Nurses. etc.
          1. shuravi
            shuravi 28 January 2018 21: 43
            0
            Quote: shura7782
            Yes, they built it from what they had. We used bomb bombers and boxes from Nurses. etc.


            So from the boxes from under C-8 quite decent boards were received.
            A bombotara gave an excellent beam.

        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 27 January 2018 19: 29
          +1
          Quote: Dedall
          It is a pity that they couldn’t close the top of the tents and they shone under electric light.

          Camp? It was necessary to put up a double tent. It does not shine through, and even warmer.
    3. yehat
      yehat 30 July 2018 14: 47
      0
      It's cold in the mountains at night

      But what about the warm heart of an international debtor?
  6. RL
    RL 27 January 2018 10: 46
    13
    About this photo.

    These are not French, but British soldiers.
  7. andrewkor
    andrewkor 27 January 2018 11: 34
    +3
    Oh, ma, he grumbled at the “point” for 1,5 years, the sidor put on only in the alarm training!
  8. tchoni
    tchoni 27 January 2018 11: 34
    +4
    Article -Advertising tourist stag "Yak". The author is well done - grandmother worked)))




    However, the exoskeleton has a number of points, due to which it is unlikely to become a mandatory set of equipment for any fighter. This is the technical complexity, and the need for maintenance, and the need for batteries (and he himself is the extra weight). We add the possibility of damage by bullets and fragments, failure from dirt, water, frost, as well as the limited ability to work in the exoskeleton in a bent position, lying down or moving in it crawling. At the exhibition, the exoskeleton fighter looks cool, but in the position, most likely, he will become a good target for the enemy.
    The author forgets a little that at present There are 2 types of exoskeleton: 1) based on the use of artificial muscles - hydraulics, etc., designed to increase the strength of a fighter. Here, yes, we need energy sources, etc., and 2) based on the use of elastic elements, designed to reduce the load on the musculoskeletal system of the operator (the simplest example is the athletic belt and bench shirt). no energy sources are needed there. In practice, it is now the second type of exoskeleton that is used.
    And as for the transfer on a stretcher - I will tell you this: the author clearly did not use this method on rough terrain. From such a high opinion of him.
  9. realist
    realist 27 January 2018 12: 09
    +4
    some kind of nonsense, you should not blame more than 25 kg on a fighter (and this is if the fighter is strong and weighs more than 80 kg) otherwise after an hour or two march over rough terrain this will not be a fighter but a tired loader. here it is necessary to solve the problem of delivering mechanized cargo to the right place.
    1. tasha
      tasha 27 January 2018 12: 44
      +3
      mechanized cargo delivery

      I, as a great supporter of pallets, ISO-containers, combinations based on them and means of mechanized cargo handling, support you.
      But! Pay attention to the photo from Afghanistan. Agree that you can only carry ammunition crates to a height in such a terrain for only two of you. It was here that a system like that, for example, Yak, would be useful. Unless the ammunition package itself should fasten \ detach quickly. And hands free ...
      1. realist
        realist 29 January 2018 09: 11
        0
        in the mountains, it’s becoming more and more complicated, but the block post is on the road! it means that there is a road, it is clear that there are gunpoints in the mountains where there is no road, but these are rather exceptions, and there really is "enduring ..... the hardships and deprivations of military service."
        1. yehat
          yehat 30 July 2018 14: 52
          0
          and a wizard in a blue helicopter?
          what help can he count on? After all, there were even tanker helicopters in the army
  10. Wicked Wicked
    Wicked Wicked 27 January 2018 14: 50
    +3
    I don’t know. In Afghanistan, in the Airborne Forces, the RD-54 didn’t do very well with such problems, they hung easily up to 50 kg, if you looked at the fighter from the back, you could only see your legs just above your knees, you couldn’t imagine better in the mountains! And the machine gun, grenade launcher, mortar calculations were scattered throughout, the main thing is that there should be enough forces to drag it. The choice of what to take with you always was always difficult, water was taken at the rate of 1-2 liters per day, personal bk for the machine - 8 horns of 30 or 45 rounds (6 paired in a bodice and 2 on the machine) + 1 - 2 linen bags per 500 - 600 rounds, 6 grenades - 4 FKs and 2 RGDs (in the bodice 2 the rest are in the Rdshka) a couple of smokes, 4 rocket launchers (2nd color 35mm and 2nd 40mm lighting) and dry bays ... sleeping bag (usually spiritual if there is one). It’s always cold in the mountains even in summer, so they took a “lint-shirt” (a sweater for us), warm socks, a pea coat (winter jacket) and felt boots, well, something for the details of PPI, a tourniquet, a band-aid, a paratsacid (aquasept), etc. The BC could significantly differ from the tasks performed by the fighter, the planned number of days spent in the mountains and the assigned task (ambush, block, etc.) also influenced the total weight of the cargo.
    1. Wicked Wicked
      Wicked Wicked 27 January 2018 14: 53
      +3
      And still ... they didn’t take the armor and helmet, they just got in the way and had a small weight, but naturally they carried out the drill
      1. captain
        captain 27 January 2018 17: 26
        +1
        Quote: EVIL WRONG
        And still ... they didn’t take the armor and helmet, they just got in the way and had a small weight, but naturally they carried out the drill

        I confirm; in the infantry they took a look, but did not fight in them.
        1. Spike Javelin Touvich
          Spike Javelin Touvich 27 January 2018 21: 48
          0
          I also confirm and still armic stelesh on the ground and lie and use a helmet like a pillow
    2. yehat
      yehat 30 July 2018 14: 49
      0
      and how many days on 2 liters of water per day can be extended without a noticeable deterioration?
  11. Dzungar
    Dzungar 27 January 2018 16: 03
    +3
    Yes, I had to carry around a lot ..... In the photo where it is written that "a soldier drags a box of cartridges on himself" - this is not true. The cartridge box consists of two zinc, and the size of two and a half times less than the one in the photo
    1. yehat
      yehat 30 July 2018 14: 55
      0
      maybe these are other cartridges?
      for example, from a coaxial anti-aircraft machine gun / gun?
  12. Dedall
    Dedall 27 January 2018 17: 43
    +2
    Forgot to mention stretcher sanitary straps. They are still on supply in ours, but not produced. I found the times when the standard for the movement of a part of orderlies-porters was worked out. The conditional wounded man was lying on the stretcher, and the porters clung the stretcher handles with an 8-folded shoulder strap and carried them at a distance of 1000 meters. Not only that, they also practiced hand-shooting. For one porter with a wounded man in loops and straps, the distance was 200 meters.
    1. Svarog51
      Svarog51 28 January 2018 10: 46
      +1
      "A real soldier is only a quarter eagle, otherwise it is a pack horse" (c) Mikhail Kalinkin
      good
  13. Vladimir 5
    Vladimir 5 27 January 2018 18: 40
    +4
    Really did not see the old women-pensioners carrying a bag of potatoes on two-wheeled carts. So this “Yaku” has a couple of wheels on porous rubber, so as not to rattle, and you can load 60 kg, and the fighter will be lucky quickly and unappetized ... And difficult areas, like a “goat” behind his back, but here the distances are in a few kilometers ...
    1. Vladimir 5
      Vladimir 5 27 January 2018 18: 56
      +1
      Addition. To create such two-wheeled “Yaks” by connecting them - into 4-wheeled stretchers further with various tansformations, from carts to stationary structures, - tent frames, bridges and other things ... With little mechanization, failure when different robot mules flirt. "On wheels "to put the freight, even the ancients knew this ...
      1. wehr
        27 January 2018 19: 36
        0
        Well, then you have to take a Chinese car - you can hardly think of something better.
        1. sd68
          sd68 28 January 2018 02: 44
          +1
          Kravchuchka with big enough wheels is much better and more convenient smile
  14. Wolka
    Wolka 27 January 2018 19: 18
    0
    very relevant
  15. Sedoy
    Sedoy 27 January 2018 23: 06
    0
    VTsOOOT proposed an original innovation in the development of the idea: a stretcher strap


    crap ...
    in his youth, while working at a construction site, he made something like this - loops on his shoulders ..
    it’s easier to carry, but not for long - the stairs are still hard ...
    what’s swinging in the mountains - then there’s not enough for a long time here - while it’s “even”, but as soon as the angle is steeper or twistier, the bunch will only interfere ...
    those who went to the mountains will understand ...
    and I served there ...
    1. yehat
      yehat 30 July 2018 14: 56
      0
      in the mountains and without load it’s hard with habit)))
      try to climb the metro escalator without panting
  16. Sedoy
    Sedoy 27 January 2018 23: 14
    0
    The military variety of an easel backpack should, of course, be different from the tourist variety.


    here is an easel backpack is what you need - I had one in the early 80's
    great thing for the mountains
    I look at modern ones (without a machine) I don’t like ...
    and rightly so what the military version is doing ...
    there would be to make "separate" parts of the backpack, i.e. so that you can disconnect a small part and use it as an assault backpack
    if only they would bring this matter to the troops, otherwise it would remain "on paper"
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. General70
    General70 28 January 2018 00: 23
    +5
    The US military got its nickname for the abundance of ammunition. They gave them her Kosovo Serbs. The fact is that in the American army there is a rule: if a soldier is injured, and with him there is no complete equipment, then FIG him, not insurance. Licking the wounds will be for their hard-earned, and this is expensive. Uncle Sam cares about the safety of his soldiers, and at the same time about the safety of taxpayer money. This means that heat is not heat, they shoot - they don’t shoot, but full body armor, protective shields on your knees and elbows, helmet, goggles, gloves - put everything on and sweat in the name of star streak. Suddenly someone quietly shoots. They have a lot of everything. Weight sometimes exceeds 40 kg, live richly. With such a load, a person gets tired, but the toad smothers, and they stick everything on themselves, like Romanian donkeys. Of course, several hours under such a load, the gait is not improved. It’s in the movie about “Fur Seals” these bogeys and look under the bag with eagles. There are just soldiers, normal marines. They are strong guys, but not iron. Such a warrior walks overwhelmed, his legs bend badly, his head is pulled into his shoulders - a penguin penguin. Here their Serbs and nicknamed "s". in Serbo-Croatian - “penguin”. Even though the Americans drove in quickly, they roared, but there was nothing to do. You can bomb people in the Stone Age, but you can’t forbid them to laugh. Americans have worn out.

    This is me, by the way lol lol lol hi
    1. sd68
      sd68 28 January 2018 03: 33
      0
      And in other armies, public property is massively thrown onto the road if the sun bakes?
      1. wehr
        28 January 2018 17: 46
        +1
        Do you mean "Sunlight"?
  19. serge siberian
    serge siberian 28 January 2018 18: 28
    0
    And we had VMs, they were simply hung from the bed nets. True, I had to use them on a daily basis but not often. But in general, the article raised the necessary topic. This is good. However, I will allow myself to note that different units perform different tasks. Here and the sidor different are needed. In 1993, I felt a ryugzak tour with a machine for 7 km through the forest and 7 more in the swamp, in comparison with a simple ryuzhzak THING is more useful! hi
  20. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 28 January 2018 20: 19
    0
    The problem, of course, must be solved technically.
    And not suitable for movers. After all, soldiers after a march with 40 kg or more kg on their shoulders are not combat-ready. If they are suddenly attacked, they will be killed. Why, then, one asks, dragged? sad
    We tried a low cart on tracks with a gas engine. The driver sits as if on
    the bike. The noise ... did not go.
    But something is needed ... like rickshaws, carts.
    1. Vladimir 5
      Vladimir 5 28 January 2018 22: 27
      0
      Famous and true: frames decide everything! As long as people like ragosins are the main ones, only theft will be successful, everything else will be in the form of inflated samples in the literal and figurative sense ....
    2. yehat
      yehat 30 July 2018 15: 05
      0
      need an exoskeleton, but of a different type.
      a person must control the clunker and use his senses and the vestibular apparatus
      but the mover is completely different - like the Americans with legs. Only not on electric motors, but on
      fibers or other elements (there are many options - they even tested such gels), which in a passive position do not consume anything, and when voltage appears, they contract or lengthen, doing mechanical work with high efficiency. Then the platform will appear quiet and economical. Touch control has already grown to control such mechanisms, although while it works in a day, electric capacities also already have adequate, except for soldiers on the pedals with the generator)))
  21. infantryman2020
    infantryman2020 29 January 2018 08: 33
    0
    In the photo, where our fighters are in Afghanistan, the boxes are not with a 7,62 mm screw. cartridges, and, in my opinion, with 82 mm mines.
    But this does not change the essence. The article is a plus.
  22. shmelik45
    shmelik45 29 January 2018 14: 56
    0
    Frame backpacks with three compartments appeared at our camp site back in the late 80s. cool thing at that time was.
  23. Oslyabya
    Oslyabya 29 January 2018 18: 08
    +2

    First World War
    It seems to be the British ...
    In general, from what I saw under such a task, I liked the machine-cart of American deer hunters with two wheels-dutiks in the corners most of all.
    You can carry it on your shoulders, roll it like a wheelbarrow, or hook the handle of the car on your belt and free your hands. As far as I remember g / p to 70 kg
  24. raif
    raif 4 February 2018 11: 41
    0
    pi..dit author! as issued, and issued to the fighters. moreover, not somewhere in the Siberian outback, but in the "cultural capital" of Peterburg this year! wink
  25. raif
    raif 4 February 2018 17: 07
    0
    The author is an excellent couch theorist, but no more. where did he see a grenade platoon in a motorized rifle company? which on x .. 31 ATGM in its composition? Where are they from in Afghanistan? especially against the Mujahideen ... Nonsense! author, read the "Soldier Saga" by Gleb Bobrov - there is not a word about ATGMs, even RPOs are rarely mentioned. after such mistakes, I don’t want to read further. not a single normal commander will force you to drag "tons" of your cargo - for the soldiers will simply "die". They will score and revolt what they need. yes, there will be negative consequences of such self-righteousness, but plunge into the reality of life, get off the DB-2018 ("Combat Sofa of the model of 2018). Or continue to piss everyone in the ears, as my battalion commander," Afghan, "said. 15 stores were killed by RMB. quite ... negative
    1. yehat
      yehat 30 July 2018 15: 09
      0
      my brother served in a motorized infantry. I didn’t tell about grenade platoons, but I’ve talked enough about the weight of a shell from a 100 mm gun or about the weight of a tape from a 30 mm gun.
      Ok mountains, try to charge the banal tape in BMP3 in your garage.