Military Review

Principal hearing loss

39



A likely opponent probably sees a breach in the defense of the Russian Federation - the low quality of underwater target detection systems. Now ensuring domination in the oceans is due to the development of the infrasonic range of hydroacoustic signals. Our developers, however, stubbornly remain in sound, and even archaic transformation methods are used. But at the same time they manage to instill in customers confidence in the excellent qualities of domestic SJCs.

In the open press, there was information that the submarine “Borey” is equipped with the MGK-600B Irtysh-Amfora-B-055 hydroacoustic complex, with a range (320 km) superior to Virginia’s (230 km). Note, on these Navy submarines of the US Navy installed GAK, operating in the frequency range 10 – 480 hertz.

The domestic Irtysh-Amphora is equipped with piezo-ceramic hydrophones operating in the area of ​​sound frequencies, which are attenuated 10 times in water at a distance of 10 kilometers. Accordingly, the Irkysh-Amphora State Joint-Stock Company can successfully work on targets with acoustic sound components present in the acoustic spectrum - the same high-speed surface vessels. For the detection of low-noise submarines of a potential enemy, whose radiation lies mainly in the infrasonic range, this SAC is far less suitable.

Modern submarines of the US Navy, when moving underwater at a speed of about eight knots, have a noise level of 120 – 130 decibels in the 10 – 10 000 hertz frequency band. The same indicator for the first serial submarines was 160 – 170 decibels and more, which means that the measures taken led to a decrease in noise by about 40 decibels, and it was in the audio range. Infrasound frequencies, on the other hand, cannot in principle be weakened, and it is permissible for them to compare the effectiveness of hydroacoustic complexes.

The amplitude piezoceramic transducers used in Russian GAK are not physically able to provide their hopes for effective reception of infrasonic signals. Domestic developers are stepping up efforts to create multicomponent systems for receiving sound signals - those that the underwater enemy almost does not emit. And if you do not seriously engage in ensuring the effectiveness of the primary conversion of hydroacoustic information, the domestic submarine fleet will be thoroughly blocked at the locations of superior quality SAC of the likely enemy, and the shelf zones of the Russian sea borders will be opened for unauthorized visits by foreign submarines.

What is the arsenal of domestic hydro-acoustic weapons? These are GAK antennas - phased discrete arrays of complex shape, consisting of several thousand piezoceramic transducers, which should provide reception of signals. The piezoceramic transducer is a high-pass filter, it is characterized by low noise immunity, as well as dependence on changes in static pressure and temperature. The efficiency of piezotransformation is maximum in the region of its own resonance and decreases with decreasing frequency. At the same time, the noises of the sea are amplified just as the frequencies approach the infrasonic range. What kind of early detection of submarines by the existing receivers can be discussed if the sea is at least 60 decibels louder than the useful signal in the infrasonic range?

Systems with towed antennas for operation in a wide range of frequencies are also equipped with piezoceramic elements that provide signal conversion in the audio frequency domain. Little in the operating mode, each receiving element of the system is at a different depth, so they are all clogged with signals from the wake stream. There are also stationary GAK in the arsenal to protect the shelf zone from unauthorized penetration of surface ships and submarines: Liman, Volkhov, Agam, Dniester. Wasn’t one of these complexes installed on the shelf of the Rybachy peninsula polygon, near which in 1992 the American submarine “Baton Rouge” collided with the Russian “Kostroma” (“Hydrophone call”)?

35 years ago, the leadership of the Navy was puzzled by Morphispribor by developing an optical differential conversion method that provides high efficiency. In 1991, funding for this topic was discontinued due to the lack of acceptable technical solutions. But it is precisely the development of an optical hydrophone that is the most promising; the efforts of foreign specialists are focused on this area. In order to materialize such a method, a revision of the basic positions of signal conversion is necessary. Alas, the lead developer, Oceanpribor, does not set such tasks and prefers to be guided by conservative ideas inherited from previous generations. If so, then hope should be left for the implementation of Presidential Decree No. 327 of July 20 of 2017 “On Approval of the Fundamental Principles of the State Policy of the Russian Federation in the Field of Naval Activities for the Period to 2030 of the Year”, at least in terms of parity with the likely opponent the field of sonar weapons.
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https://vpk-news.ru/articles/40903
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  1. jjj
    jjj 27 January 2018 15: 11
    +7
    Well, if you had to let the fog in, then okay, then let it. But here's the thing. Since the beginning of publicity, hundreds of passages have already been read about the fact that our boats in all respects are worse than those of the adversary. But life every year refutes these verbal constructions
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 January 2018 15: 30
      11
      Quote: jjj
      But life every year refutes these verbal constructions

      Unfortunately, she does not refute them, but confirms them. In terms of low noise, our submarines really caught up, but in terms of sonar ... a big question.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 27 January 2018 16: 55
        +1
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        By low noise, our submarines really caught up

        As far as I remember, the third part of your review, the word "really" was formulated more extensively. They tell usthat the low noise level, and so you thinkthat those solutions that were introduced by the Americans on the 4th generation, primarily the water cannon, are not so good.
      2. avt
        avt 27 January 2018 18: 17
        +7
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        but on sonar ... the big question.

        I don’t presume to discuss this topic, because I remember how in the 90s I found a frisky search for an answer to this question from a frisky employee of the USA and Canada Institute, for several thousand pounds from an employee of the Shaved Embassy, ​​after visiting Obninsk in the prison camp by a very specific time. Moreover, I didn’t want to “play" with shaved intelligence, or the subsequent hacking under, a “victim of the bloody GBNI of a poor scientific researcher” and even during interrogation, they added psychotropics to me for tea, even Rogov’s intercession, the director of this institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences. They didn’t lead to easing - I rewound to the fullest, although the Evoynaya woman for permanent residence in LondOngrad fell off in the British. bully So this topic is very tender. More accurate on the Internet on the answer. on the
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        . big question.
        As in the search for an answer to it. BAB incidentally was still alive in Moscow.
        bully
      3. PPD
        PPD 28 January 2018 11: 21
        0
        I missed our noise data and is not very disclosed? That too about acoustics.
      4. 2534M
        2534M 24 March 2018 11: 38
        +1
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Unfortunately, she does not refute them, but confirms them. In terms of low noise, our submarines really caught up, but in terms of sonar ... a big question.

        1. NOT COMPARED, and the backlog has greatly increased. This is obvious even from an open infa, for example, the absence of a water jet at 885 - experts understand where and in what modes it flies with a whistle to the western submarine
        2. In acoustics, the situation, by the way, is much better.
    2. AUL
      AUL 27 January 2018 15: 32
      0
      Maybe throw a reference to such a refutation?
    3. Dart2027
      Dart2027 27 January 2018 17: 56
      +1
      Quote: jjj
      that our boats in all respects are worse than that of the adversary

      It was at first. Only with the third generation did a turning point occur.
    4. siberalt
      siberalt 27 January 2018 19: 00
      0
      Submarines are not bats or dolphins. How can mechanical drives emit ultrasonic frequencies? winked
      1. zulusuluz
        zulusuluz 28 January 2018 09: 45
        +2
        Infrasound, not ultrasound. Infrasound is published by the submarines themselves when moving. How buildings “sound” under the influence of wind, local temperature changes, etc.
    5. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 28 January 2018 15: 04
      +4
      Quote: jjj
      Well, if you had to let the fog in, then okay, then let it.

      Yuri, hi! hi
      The author panics, apparently trying to pull the "unrestrained" (a subscription on non-disclosure and the form of admission to the materials and documents of the SS and OV) to an open banter. But I can only say one thing: the first infrasound PIs were installed on the 671 project and normally found an adversary on D to 200 km. And this scribbler wants to convince me that since the beginning of the 70 of the last century, our science has not advanced a single step forward !? belay
      By the way, on g / a methods of detecting submarines of adversary the light did not converge. There is also AOKS ... So, it's too early to shout: "Chef, everything is gone! They remove the gypsum, the client leaves!"
      PS Friendly advice to Adrei from Chelyabinsk: I recommend taking notes at the beginning of the opus! (In order not to lose orientation in space.) bully
      1. jjj
        jjj 28 January 2018 18: 39
        +3
        Good health, Alexander!
        I agree, when people mastered RTMs, they rejoiced genuinely. Fantasy. And on 971 Ave. everything already looked casual. Although the steamers are closer to the end of the series - I have been to the Leopard - this is a completely different level
    6. 2534M
      2534M 24 March 2018 11: 39
      0
      Quote: jjj
      Since the beginning of publicity, hundreds of passages have already been read about the fact that our boats in all respects are worse than those of the adversary

      bunny, the plinth level of your post suggests that you saw submarines only on TV;) - from SOFA
  2. Vard
    Vard 27 January 2018 15: 43
    0
    I understand everything about boats ... only one thing is not clear ... why is it so noisy ... It's louder than a jet plane takes off ... and 135 decibels ... it's a pain threshold ...
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 27 January 2018 15: 52
      12
      Quote: Vard
      only one thing is not clear ... why is it so noisy ...

      Pi-er-square ... here is a square and it knocks (s)
    2. Brylevsky
      Brylevsky 27 January 2018 16: 44
      +5
      Nuclear reactor coolant circulation pumps and propeller.
    3. Dedall
      Dedall 27 January 2018 17: 00
      +3
      Vard, it also says that at a frequency of about 10000 hertz, and this is the frequency of a mosquito squeak. And the total conversion is carried out according to the formula, where the maximum perception is calculated at frequencies of 1000-3000 hertz. But most importantly, this formula applies to air pressure. But for the aquatic environment, taking into account its density, the formula will be completely different.
      1. Vard
        Vard 27 January 2018 17: 06
        +2
        That is, the boat can be found on the trail of a pop-up dead fish ...
    4. siberalt
      siberalt 27 January 2018 19: 06
      0
      Try listening to sound frequencies above 18 kHz even at the level of normal household acoustics. It seems that they poke in the ears with an awl. Then he puts his ears for several hours. But where does the submarine? belay
      1. Vlad.by
        Vlad.by 28 January 2018 19: 33
        +1
        Are you sure that everyone will hear 18 kHz ???
        Yes, most already after 15-16 silence sets in. And the answer was, if the speaker power is under kW.
        As for infrasound, apart from the mechanisms and disturbances of water from interaction with the hull, rudders ... they also create an infrasound background. Yes, wow what power.
  3. Tests
    Tests 27 January 2018 19: 07
    10
    Guys, commercials of Imperial Bank, remember? I’m talking about the plot where, on the report of the house, cutting the swans’s wings: “Sweep Your Majesty! So that they don’t fly away.” Alexander II, adjusting his cap, replies: “It’s better to feed it. They won’t fly away.”
    In the autumn of 2000, shortly after the death of the Kursk nuclear submarine, the Kazan submarine K-403 went from Severodvinsk to the seas. The same one that was upgraded twice by Zvyozdochka from Azuha, first according to the Axon project, and then Axon-2 ", which burned when disposed of in the dry dock of the same Zvyozdochka in the fall of 2009, whose cabin stands today in Kazan. In the first compartment, the test was commanded by the HAC then two young girls of 30 years each from the Morphizpribor. The men who worked at Morphispribor then had an average age of 65-70 years. In the sea on a boat for testing, none of them, due to a complete lack of health, could not.
    Thanks to the First President of the Russian Federation, thanks to the great reformer of the economy, whose dad, without going to the seas for decades and without serving, received the title of Rear Admiral in Pravda, though the greatest reformer in those times in Severodvinsk was not called “bastard” worse than him, the people belonged only to the greatest energetics of all times and peoples (the poor red cats, from the 90s to the present, for some reason they stubbornly name them after the last name of the greatest energetics). It’s this, absolutely holy trinity, but a couple hundreds of their closest associates, brought science, including in the "Morphizpribor". After all, it was only necessary to listen to Alexander the Second and to feed science better. “Morphizpribor” survived with great difficulty, but in “Okeanpribor”, despite the change of name and leadership, young people, unfortunately, are not enough ... Sad ...
    1. jjj
      jjj 29 January 2018 11: 05
      +3
      In those days, working at Zvezdochka was considered more prestigious than at Sevmash. Received more. In Severodvinsk even a joke went:
      There are two. One holds a block of Prima cigarettes.
      - Did you switch to Zvezdochka?
      - Why do you think so?
      - I look, chic ...
  4. Sedoy
    Sedoy 27 January 2018 21: 40
    0
    Modern U.S. Navy submarines when traveling underwater at a speed of about eight knots have a noise level of 120-130 decibels in the frequency band of 10-10 hertz.


    something doesn't fit very well:

    "Studies have shown that low-frequency acoustic vibrations, including infrasonic ones, lasting from 25 s to 2 min with specific sound pressure from 145 to 150 dB in the frequency range from 1 to 100 Hz, caused the subjects to feel chest wall vibration, dryness oral cavity, impaired vision, headaches, dizziness, nausea, cough, suffocation, restlessness in the hypochondrium, tinnitus, modulation of speech sounds, pain when swallowing and some other signs of disturbances in the body "
    Infrasound starts with 16 hertz, if from 1 to 16 hertz there can be 120 bcm, then the personnel just have to give horses in half an hour ...
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 28 January 2018 15: 43
      +2
      Quote: Sedoy
      Infrasound starts with 16 hertz, if from 1 to 16 hertz there can be 120 bcm, then the personnel just have to give horses in half an hour ...

      1. 16 Hz is the upper limit of the FM, and the lower 0,001Hz (conditionally)
      2. For humans, the frequency 7 Hz is considered to be fatal - cardiac arrest.
      3. 120 dbl - the level of "noise" comparable to working at a weaving factory ... If you think, then there would be no weavers in the world at all!
      4. learn physics or better its section - Acoustics! laughing
      1. Svarog51
        Svarog51 28 January 2018 17: 50
        +1
        Alexander, welcome hi
        1. I agree completely
        2. The resonant frequency for each person is individual and ranges from 5 to 7 Hz, and the amplitude also matters.
        3. Here for me, more than everything is complicated. Not a single weaving factory was left in the city, and in the old days I heard these 120 dbl with my own ears. Had to attend. Ivanovo however, yeah. wink
        4. I hope I do not have to attend continuing education courses?
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 28 January 2018 19: 53
          +4
          Quote: Svarog51
          I hope I do not have to attend continuing education courses?

          Serega, hello! hi
          You do not have to! Although, at will, it is not forbidden: learning is light, UNCLEED - darkness !!!
          Hydroacoustic is generally "Tera inkognita!" It contains only types of hydrology 7 pieces! Therefore, even with the most powerful HACK, you can listen to your own screws !!! But non-acoustic detection methods - this is a great mystery! On the wake trail (buzz - a water cannon!), On the radiological - charm, but now it has become more difficult, the ZhVZ and BZ are already very strong, and new ion exchangers are a song!
          I was intrigued by the phrase of the Supreme: we are de from outer space, and so everything is visible, we know exactly where their boats are ...
          I heard about remote sensing of the Earth ... But this is sea water! Electrolyte!!! After all ...
          Another laser location .. But how much is it possible from the COP !? And to what depth?
          Well and the most (semi-fantastic!) Unbelievable - torsion fields of a large mass building ... I once heard. But then they looked at me with wide open surprised eyes (by the way - both doctors of science!) ...
          So, “we’ll shake, we will see,” said one tiger to another in his remark about a good trainer! laughing
          1. Svarog51
            Svarog51 28 January 2018 20: 17
            +1
            Alexander, I'm going to sign up for courses. And where can they take me? I agree, even if after graduation to practice in the submarine will be determined. Oh, I wasn’t, maybe I’ll become a little smarter. good : drinks
            Threat. In general terms, I understood everything, even regarding the torsion fields of large structures. Naturally, I don’t know the intricacies, but I’m ready to listen carefully to everything that does not concern the SS and OV stamps.
          2. 2534M
            2534M 24 March 2018 11: 41
            +1
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            I was intrigued by the phrase of the Supreme: we can see everything from outer space, we know exactly where their boats are ... I heard about remote sensing of the Earth ... But this is sea water!

            physics is universal
            and the pre-existing "stealth zone" for submarines at shallow depths is now well opened by space means
  5. NikWik
    NikWik 27 January 2018 22: 25
    +4
    The fact that we are lagging behind in acoustics, no one argues. But nevertheless, in order to write about sonar, you need to understand at least something. I would advise the author of this article to at least look through the textbook “Fundamentals of Hydroacoustics” by Robert J. Urik.
    In general, the trouble is, since the cobbler’s oven pies.
    And this article is about nothing. Big minus.
  6. mager1
    mager1 27 January 2018 22: 39
    0
    The article is very much about what. It has not yet been written that the production of piezoceramics in Russia has almost disappeared. We buy billets from the Chinese. And HAC equipment is a sample of the development of the 80s with new names.
    1. SEER
      SEER 30 January 2018 01: 14
      0
      Quote: mager1
      The article is very much about what. It has not yet been written that the production of piezoceramics in Russia has almost disappeared. We buy billets from the Chinese. And HAC equipment is a sample of the development of the 80s with new names.

      PC "Akhtuba" in my hometown and area seems to be moving more
      http://akhtuba.ru/o-predprijatii/
      Yes, and "Aurora-Elma" from the same opera
      http://avrora-elma.ru/
    2. 2534M
      2534M 24 March 2018 11: 43
      +1
      Quote: mager1
      The article is very much about what. It has not yet been written that the production of piezoceramics in Russia has almost disappeared. We buy billets from the Chinese. And HAC equipment is a sample of the development of the 80s with new names.

      article - Crap
      afftor didn’t even bother to read related publications

      comment mager1 - also crap and fables
  7. _Jack_
    _Jack_ 27 January 2018 23: 17
    +3
    The modern fleet has always been, and is, a very expensive weapon. Unfortunately, the economy of modern Russia is completely incomparable with the length of our maritime borders. In principle, we cannot pull so many modern warships, so our nuclear weapons are our everything. Here on it and on the most modern means of delivery thereof, and you need to focus. And the coastal zone remains to the fleet, which actually happens.
  8. boris 1943
    boris 1943 28 January 2018 14: 08
    +8
    From the author

    Unfortunately, when editing, the original article is almost halved. The editor missed important evidence. As a result, the reader concludes that the author carries a gag. For example, the author provides a link to the article "Protection and secrecy" authors Vaks A.I., Muradyan V.A., Sagaidakov F.R. Flot.com ›publications / books / shelf / submarines ... The authors of the article are employees of the Central Research Institute of Krylov.
    “Modern submarines of the US Navy, when moving underwater at a speed of about 8 knots, have a noise level of 120-130 dB at Po = 1 µPa, at a distance of 1 m, in the frequency band of 10-10 000 Hz. This indicator for the first serial nuclear submarines was 160-170 dB or more. It can be seen that the measures taken resulted in a noise reduction of about 40 dB (100 times). ”
    In case of acoustic measurements, it is necessary to indicate relative to which level the measurement data are given.
    Notes:
    : 1. 120-130 dB relative to 1 μPa. Acoustic pressure measurements are carried out under specific conditions of static pressure and temperature. And the measurement data correlate with a conditional pressure level of 1 μPa. This is already an element of falsification, however, accepted in the international practice of hydroacoustic measurements.
    2.120 -130 dB correspond to 1–3 Pa, that is, to an alternating pressure of 0,1–0 mm water column.
    . It is doubtful that with a displacement of 7400 tons and a speed of 16 km / h, the Virginia submarine creates a variable water pressure of only 1 Pa.
    3. What will happen with such a small signal at a distance of 200-300 km? Sound components from the spectrum disappeared due to measures taken to reduce noise. Infrasonic components are fundamentally impossible to remove from the signal spectrum. Infrasound spreads in water without attenuation. The number of sources of infrasound is very large. The noise density of the sea is growing at 6 dB per octave. To highlight a useful signal against the background of the prevailing noise of the sea, interference compensation is necessary. But this is a completely different story.
    The frequency range of signals adopted in sonar extends from 10 to 000 Hz. Hydroacoustics know that the characteristic of a piezoelectric signal conversion drops by 10 dB per octave. It is not difficult to estimate that with a decrease in frequency from 6 Hz to 10 Hz, the conversion efficiency will decrease by 000 dB. What quality of hydroacoustic measurements can be discussed if the conversion efficiency is only 10% of the input signal.
    The amplitude piezoelectric transducers used are physically unable to provide their hopes for efficient reception of infrasound signals. It is worth touching on the issue that piezoceramic sensors belong to vibrational displacement sensors. This definition already indicates the frequency limitation of the conversion. The conversion method is indirect. The nature of the conversion is charge. PKD is a sieve through which only high-frequency fractions of the signal pass. At the same time, the infrasonic components modulate the output signal. Numerous attempts to remove the limitations of the piezoceramic transformation have failed. Here we should cite the conclusion from the book "Vector - phase methods in acoustics" by Valery Gordienko, Doctor of Philosophy "At the moment, well-known methods based on the use of information recorded by pressure receivers have reached their limit." This conclusion was made more than 20 years ago by a specialist for over 40 years dealing with issues of early warning in sonar. This warning was not accepted.
    This link, like many of the author’s arguments about the impasse of the sonar industry, was not brought to the attention of the defense industry editorial staff. The only way out of the impasse is to master the optical difference method of conversion. It is in this direction that foreign developers work. It is in this direction that the domestic hydroacoustic industry demonstrates inconsistency in solving a problem. We are 35 years behind the potential adversary. Russia has no reason to approve parity in the field of sonar weapons.
    Boris Voronkov
    1. NikWik
      NikWik 28 January 2018 22: 43
      +2
      Thanks for the addition. It is much more specific, accurate and interesting than the main article. keep it up
    2. Town Hall
      Town Hall 28 January 2018 23: 01
      +2
      Quote: boris 1943
      The only way out of the impasse is to master the optical difference method of conversion. It is in this direction that foreign developers work. It is in this direction that the domestic hydroacoustic industry demonstrates inconsistency in solving a problem. We are 35 years behind the potential adversary. Russia has no reason to approve parity in the field of sonar weapons.
      Boris Voronkov




      You killed this whole Sisyphean work of a local narrowly-known alternative author who, quite recently, in a series of articles at a local forum wrote off with a stroke of the pen as obsolete 3/4 ov nuclear submarine fleet ... which supposedly lagged hopelessly in the mid-80s from Soviet roaring cows, who made an incredible technical leap into the future ...
    3. 2534M
      2534M 24 March 2018 11: 44
      0
      Quote: boris 1943
      The amplitude piezoelectric transducers used are physically unable to provide their hopes for efficient reception of infrasound signals

      this is a mistaken opinion
      the practice of some special works on the topic, not even an outdated primitive at the RSLB, but with the RIGHT MODERN APPROACHES :) gives very good results
      1. D16
        D16 30 June 2019 07: 55
        0
        Here's something about these approaches:
        https://vpk.name/news/109348_est_li_v_rossii_sovremennoe_gidroakusticheskoe_vooruzhenie.html
        It’s a pity that these are things of bygone days. Authors are already over 70.
  9. Captain Nemo
    Captain Nemo 28 January 2018 18: 56
    0
    To shoot the author for issuing state secrets to the enemy