Does the Russian army need a new AK-12?

The AK-74 series Kalashnikov assailants and their derivatives will soon sink into oblivion. At the end of last year, state tests of their successors, AK-12 and AEK-971, were completed.

These news cause a variety of emotions. The society asks questions: is there a need to abandon the time-tested small weapons and were the modern designers able to surpass the legendary creation of Mikhail Kalashnikov?

According to military experts, the replacement of the main machine is long overdue. The first attempts to do this were undertaken even at sunset. The AN-94, the creation of designer Gennady Nikonov, was to become the fighter’s new weapon. But in the dashing 90-e was not up to this and the machine was purchased only in small batches, and then completely was forgotten.

Again the topic was raised at the end of the 2000's.

Comments

[NEXUS]

Why do you need two AK-12 and AK-15 assault rifles? The caliber is different 5,45 and 7,62, which will not bring anything good except for hemorrhoids. It’s not clear why not AK-107.

[Vladimir 5]

For a successful solution, we need a third sample and a practical run-in of all, in Syria and other places. The famous Kalash for a long time does not satisfy either in the aim of the battle, or in the quality, or in the attachments used. - which has been proved more than once in comparison with the products of Americans, and others. Self-praise of the AK without looking around, and where others have gone, and gives such confidence in the outdated AK. No matter how the "Sevastopol Strada of 1854" with backward Russian rifles ...

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Vladimir 5

The famous Kalash for a long time does not satisfy either in the aim of the battle, or in the quality, or in the attachments used. - which has been proved more than once in comparison with the products of Americans, and others.

about the need for a replacement - I agree. but what products accepted for service, as the main weapon, lose Kalash in a set of characteristics? and what do you put in quality? quality finish / assembly or work in any environment? two other characteristics are far from all, critical points.
as Kalash’s rival, there is M16, but even the Americans are so “happy” with it that they have recently purchased the German version, if allowed.

[serezhasoldatow]

Bad dancer ...

[Boris Chernikov]

it was created in the 80s, 6 mm

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: NEXUS

Why do you need two AK-12 and AK-15 assault rifles? The caliber is different 5,45 and 7,62, which will not bring anything good except for hemorrhoids. It’s not clear why not AK-107.

Do you think it's better to switch to PPSh again?

[Vard]

It would be nice all the same, the seven caliber was ... Painfully good ... sometimes ... In the forest, for example ... or when stripping ...

[Northern warrior]

7.62 × 39 mm is significantly inferior to modern versions of the 5.45 × 39 mm cartridge (7H22, 7H24, 7H39) in all respects, so returning to it is a step back.
5.45 has undeniable advantages over 7.62:
1. Weight BC 1.5 times less
2. DPV 100 meters more
3. Less recoil, barrel heating and higher accuracy of fire
4. The striking effect on "meat" is much higher
5. The penetration of 7N24 is very high

[Plate]

1. Well, or 1.5 times more BC with you.

[MRomanovich]

A new machine is 100% needed if in parallel with it the issue of the mass introduction of various sights (optical, collimator, etc.) is resolved. Without a sufficient number of sights, replacing the AK-74 would be a waste of money. Until then, let the “special” guys run with new machine guns, just any shkolota who likes to hypothetically divide the machine guns into “for conscripts” and “for special forces” will calm down.

[Vita vko]

Quote: MRomanovich

Without a sufficient number of sights, replacing the AK-74 will be a waste of money

Sights are comparable in cost to the machine itself, while in most military operations the density of fire plays a decisive role. The tasks of knocking out the most important goals should be solved by a sniper.

[Sergey74]

Not comparable. Much more expensive. Unless the collimators still ride. And so the thermal imager (not army - hunting) 300-400 thousand rubles., NVD (hunting) 200-250 thousand rubles .. AKM (citizen) 30-40 thousand rubles. In military performance, we multiply everything by two at least and see the picture.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Sergey74

Not comparable. Much more expensive.

if there is own mass production, in large quantities, the price will fall by an order.

[ProkletyiPirat]

it will not fall so much as to compensate for the difference voiced above. It can only be compensated by the creation of a fundamentally new mode of production or a new design.

[Varyag82]

on the Ak-12, as well as on AEK, but on later releases of the ak-74, Picatinny rails have been used for a long time, just to use optics, a laser designator, a flashlight, and so on, so you’ve made a mistake, now you can use almost any a kit to establish, the question is elsewhere where to put millions of machine guns, which, including not only in parts, are in service, but also in warehouses, well, so that I wouldn’t do 2 posts, I’m not answering you here, you’re not talking about AN-94 they wrote, but to the author, the AN-94 didn’t go to the army en masse, not because there was no money, but because he was a very capricious machine gun, he was very afraid of dirt and damp, a little dirt or could not be cleaned in time, immediately poking, warping a bullet in the barrel they were tested in special units, we also had 5 pieces for the entire reconnaissance baht, an excellent machine gun, almost no recoil, and shooting in a burst of 2 shots is simply gorgeous with its rate of fire and accuracy, but its categorical intolerance to dirt, dust and moisture cancels everything its advantages, by the way, this disease is so kind of failed to eliminate

[MRomanovich]

The question is the reliable attachment of the receiver cover. In this, the new machine wins over the early versions of AK, so the error can only be indirect. You can solve the problem with modernization kits of old automatic machines, but at the top they have relied on a new model and I support them in this. With millions in warehouses, they probably also decided something - a small part will probably be replaced slowly, the rest will remain untouched. What is happening and planned is actually not known to us now.

[Simargl]

Quote: Varyag82

the question is, where to put millions of machine guns, which, including not only in parts, are in service, but also in warehouses

Those in parts - to finish off.
Those in warehouses - drag under .366 and to the masses, adopting the normal rules for storing and moving weapons.

[senima56]

About how they turned: Do I need a new AK ?! Are you fucked up?!?!?!? They ditched a lot of money and time for NOIKR, created first AK-12 (the first version), then it (all of a sudden !!!! about replaced with the “simplified version” AK-12 and AK-15 were tested, tested, checked and tested again .. .and now everything is on the side!?!?!? So, it’s all in vain ?! Then, if "a new AK-12 is not needed," let's look for the guilty person and put him with confiscation and a fine! Or, as always, we have no guilty person? !

[Plate]

Well, when adopting a new weapon, several competing samples are always embodied in the metal for comparison. And if one of the embodied samples lost, then why shout about the fact that everything was stolen?

[qwerty183]

Quote: senima56

About how they turned: Do I need a new AK ?! Are you fucked up?!?!?!? They ditched a lot of money and time for NOIKR, created first AK-12 (the first version), then it (all of a sudden !!!! about replaced with the “simplified version” AK-12 and AK-15 were tested, tested, checked and tested again .. .and now everything is on the side!?!?!? So, it’s all in vain ?! Then, if "a new AK-12 is not needed," let's look for the guilty person and put him with confiscation and a fine! Or, as always, we have no guilty person? !

And what should be guilty? NU conducted research, carried out practical application and realized that the game wasn’t worth the candle. It’s easier with the money, at the good old 74, to put up awnings and give the soldiers, but you never know how much money will go. And personally for me, then 74 is a good and reliable machine, well, not so hefty, I have a return, because you don’t need a machine for an exact fight. But the specialists have their own alternative and the same thing all these * new items * didn’t fall especially.

[BARKHAN]

Quote: qwerty183

And what should be guilty? NU conducted research, carried out practical application and realized that the game wasn’t worth the candle. It’s easier with the money, at the good old 74, to put up awnings and give the soldiers, but you never know how much money will go. And personally for me, then 74 is a good and reliable machine, well, not so hefty, I have a return, because you don’t need a machine for an exact fight. But the specialists have their own alternative and the same thing all these * new items * didn’t fall especially.

Exactly. Nobody thinks that this could be the ceiling at this stage of the shooting. Everything that can be squeezed out is squeezed. It's like with screw aviation once ... they went to the limit when no innovations could help anymore and switched to jet That is, they simply stepped into other technologies. Probably with the arrow as well. Well, they will squeeze out some more percentages of possibilities. But they can’t get out of the average.
Body kits can currently be adapted to almost any trunk.
Cartridges and calibers reached their maximum and squeeze out something more substantial that the laws of physics do not allow.
The economic component slows down everything else. It makes no sense simply because of small improvements in ammunition or weapons to make costly changes in production.
Perhaps the time has come for a completely new weapon principle ...

[Mavrikiy]

Yes, it’s needed, it’s needed, only .... It’s some kind of toy, not real, not familiar ... It will not make an impression of sledge resistance. In! But can they hammer nails? Old AK could.

[aybolyt678]

For me, Korobov’s assault rifle is much more convenient for shooting and not for hammering nails.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: aybolyt678

For me, Korobov’s assault rifle is much more convenient for shooting and not for hammering nails.

This is so, probably. I and AK once ....

[weddu]

For me, this machine, of course, but with a simple, lightweight and durable butt from the AKS-74. And there would be a choice, then AEK-971.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quite the contrary, the most important thing is precisely the adjustable butt, it is necessary for everyone, both conscripts and contract soldiers, because the simpler one has problems using the same soldier in different situations, which is why practical accuracy \ . For example, when you enter the variables “dress form” (summer \ winter), “bronik” (yes / no), you need a different stock length, and if you also take into account standard stops and standard positions, then more lengths and shapes of the butt will come out.

[weddu]

You write everything correctly. I wrote about personal preferences to make it simpler, easier, and most importantly more reliable. What would I choose if I had to climb mountains and shit again, jump with a parachute ... With my great growth, the old folding butt was enough for me, and they taught me to shoot in the school and city dash and the biathlon. We remember students, both boys and girls, even drove to the training ground from the AK)).

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: weddu

We remember students, both boys and girls, even drove to the training ground from the AK)).

Ehh, I envy you with black envy, I haven’t found all this,

Quote: weddu

to make it easier, easier, and most importantly more reliable.

Already something but the butt was guaranteed to be checked, and even corrected by improving its strength.

[Dilletant]

Did your girls shoot? And we didn’t even trust the tozovka, the maximum air. They drove to the shooting range only at training camps, where the ladies were not allowed. Their business was to sew us a uniform and wave a handkerchief while passing by school. Although gas masks on the floor lay on command "flash with ..." along with us.

[raw174]

Quote: weddu

but with a simple, lightweight and durable butt from AKS-74

My height is 194 cm, it is inconvenient for me to shoot with a standard butt. I went to pneumatic shooting competitions, shot from a sports Walter, there are butt adjustments there, but they are very narrow, I still don’t have enough, I have to group, and this is too much tension. From a shotgun with a short butt, poor accuracy, especially offhand ... Verdict: adjustment is needed !.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: raw174

From a short-butt firearm, poor accuracy

no, here the problem is not the length of the butt, but in the position of the hands relative to the back of the butt, this is a typical problem, for example, in bulpups the positions of the hands are too close to each other as a result of poor accuracy due to the small shoulder.

[weddu]

My height is definitely no less ..)) I just had enough, ridiculously, we shot better from the AKS-74 than from the RPKS-74 from the bipod))

[raw174]

Quote: weddu

I just had enough

it seems like you’re shooting, where to go ... But try an anatomically suitable butt, it’s a completely different thing ... As in cars, you can also drive Focus 3 (a damn cramped car, I have nowhere to put my legs behind the wheel of), but in the spacious more pleasant)))

[Lex.]

Familiar to us Kalashnikov AK-74 series and their derivatives will soon sink into oblivion
Well, not yet soon

[Michael R]

My personal opinion. A new machine gun for the army is needed !!! But. First, let them be fed with special forces and not with “fives” but with “sevens”, whose bullets are heavier and more stable. And then let them already saturate all the troops a little. The new machine - accurate, uncomplicated, mass - is needed in the troops. For what the hell then at all was to create it ?! Created? Go ahead, saturate the troops with it! “Natashki” do not waste time in vain and create new models of machines for their “gender”, although often not too successfully. And we already have such a weapon.

[raw174]

Quote: Mikhail R

and not “fives,” but “sevens,” whose bullets are still heavier and more stable.

There is an opposite opinion ... nevertheless, the mass of wearable ammunition and much more plays a role ... There is no universal bullet for all cases, it is better and-and-than-or-or-or--t.

[John22]

Well, if in essence the content of the video, then this is nonsense of a drunken madman. A quarter of an hour they tell us one thing, and they show a terrible vinaigrette about something completely different. If you are talking about a new model, then show it specifically - where are Saig’s guns and the iron that they’ve done in 10 years.
A new modern automatic machine with optics is needed. It is necessary to protect the trained fighter and equip him with modern weapons.

[akm8226]

Conversation about nothing.

[tracer]

SIGHTS will fly off together with a miracle cap. And the front hinge will loosen if not right away.

[MRomanovich]

Quote: Vita VKO

Sights are comparable in cost to the machine itself

Moreover, it is necessary to resolve the issue from contacts with manufacturers to budget consideration.

in most military operations, however, the density of fire plays a decisive role

Under more or less equal conditions, the parties are possible, but even in this case the sights will give an advantage to those who have them.

[Valery Saitov]

AK-12 - Kalashnikov assault rifle of the 2012 model, the development of the Kalashnikov concern.
The weapon controls are significantly redesigned for the convenience of users, the fuse-translator flag has been changed and duplicated on the left side, a slide delay has been introduced, the button of which is also located on both sides. For better access to the shutter latch button and magazine latch, the fire control handle is moved forward and the trigger guard is shortened. The lever of the magazine latch itself is elongated and slightly shifted back, it can now be reached with the finger of a hand lying on the handle, and when the latch is turned off, the cartridge will automatically be sent from the neck of the magazine to the barrel chamber.
Easily removable butt can be folded in both directions, it is telescopic, height adjustable cheek and butt plate butt. A removable clumsy plastic stock was also developed, with which, obviously, the machine is made easier due to the lack of a hinge with its mounting mechanism and other adjustments. Another innovation is the use of Picatinny rails.
Pretty decently redesigned AK, science and life do not stand still.
The Kalashnikov concern, part of the Rostec State Corporation, in the framework of the Army-2016 international military-technical forum, on 08.09.2016 demonstrated an updated, but actually simplified, AK-12 caliber of 5,45 mm and AK-15 of caliber 7,62 , 12 mm with a design modified according to the results of state tests. Now the old AK-2011, the development of which was carried out on an initiative basis in June 2012 under the leadership of the chief designer of Izhmash Vladimir Viktorovich Zlobin and first shown in January XNUMX, remained a prototype.

As previously reported, on February 21, 2015, the Ministry of Defense chose the so-called Kalashnikov’s AK-12 assault rifle for outfitting the Ratnik military personnel due to its lower price and lower weight compared to the hefty competitor A-545, when shooting in long bursts. It would seem that, on the whole, the rather successful design of the old AK-12 will allow this model to replace the currently very outdated AK-74M, which is in service with the army and special units of the Russian Federation.

[dgen]

I agree with all the couch fighters. but I would like to drive you into the autonomy for three weeks in a swamp-woodland with new weapons with all the body kit. SURE, in the second week you would DREAMY DREAMED about AK-47 and tarpaulin boots with footcloths.

[Northern warrior]

Without replacing the cartridge, it makes no sense to change the machine, because the characteristics of the weapon are determined by the ammunition. Why is AK-12 better than AK-74M so that it makes sense to produce it ?! In AK-12 mod. 2016, almost nothing remained of the original idea, except for an adjustable butt and front sight on a gas pipe. AEK-971, of course, is good, but is the problem of a small gear resource connecting the balancer and the bolt frame solved? If the resource of the gear has become equal to the resource of the barrel, then it still makes sense to begin production of an automatic machine for elite parts.
A mass army needs a simple and efficient machine gun, so the AK-74 will not resign for a very long time. The correct solution would be to upgrade existing trunks by installing a good body kit on them.

[Dmitry Tantsyura]

Guys, what interesting cantor on the Krylatsky Stoic that violates the preliminary agreements, I’m about Microsoft, raise a rental for them, and better with Cherkizovsky.

[Horse meat]

The rifle is needed for the caliber 6,5h54r
Best of all under a bump.

Regarding 5,45x39, he is small and daring.
Also. Need a bulpap rifle under this cartridge.
Armenians have a sniper rifle for this caliber, which is what we need.

[Horse meat]

Caliber 5,45x39 sensitive to barrel length.
If it is too short, the bullet (special) will not fly as needed.
This bullet needs a good initial speed.
What can be achieved, lengthen the barrel and remove the automation.
In this way, the bullet will hit the target.
And every soldier can take hundreds of such cartridges with him.
And everyone will get there where he aims.
An example in the foot, and not in the stomach.

[Simargl]

Quote: Konin

What can be achieved, lengthen the barrel and remove the automation.

Correctly! 5,45x39 bolt!

[ilik54]

Best the enemy of the good. Progress cannot be stopped. For example, I was in the war of the near future, so there all the people are chip-hit and bullets with scanners. So, you immediately know who you killed. And the bullets that flew by, scan the space of the battlefield and create a three-dimensional picture on the monitors, so that the mouse does not slip. True, they also came up with an antidote against this. The enemy has the opportunity during the battle to go into a parallel world and from there to strike, appearing unexpectedly and suddenly in the real world. That’s such a war, they ate away from there. Yes, and Kalash there is held in high esteem! Hope no one believed it?

[MRomanovich]

Well, why? We are a simple people, we did not finish academies. We can believe it.

[Dmitry Tantsyura]

Well, firstly, the army is not looking for a replacement, but the state order is looking for something to wither away from.

[weddu]

It's right. With all the variety of choices, American specialists will continue to use old AKs after adopting another new assault rifle in Russia ...

[Witness 45]

A new assault rifle is needed, such as the AK-12, with improved accuracy, the ability to fire with a cut-off, and fit the butt, but you probably shouldn’t be especially interested in all kinds of body kits, optics, collimators and other gimmicks are good for specific conditions and special operations, and for combined arms combat, for fighters of average training, they are more likely to be a burden, which they possibly get rid of. It will be enough to have several full-time assault rifles, for example in a platoon equipped with optics or night sights, another thing is for the special forces.

[asr55]

Quote: Vladimir 5

For a successful solution, we need a third sample and a practical run-in of all, in Syria and other places. The famous Kalash for a long time does not satisfy either in the aim of the battle, or in the quality, or in the attachments used. - which has been proved more than once in comparison with the products of Americans, and others. Self-praise of the AK without looking around, and where others have gone, and gives such confidence in the outdated AK. No matter how the "Sevastopol Strada of 1854" with backward Russian rifles ...

You fought, how did you compare? Or did you compare while sitting on the couch and playing games, hanging on the machine everything that comes into your sore head.

[asr55]

Quote: NEXUS

Why do you need two AK-12 and AK-15 assault rifles? The caliber is different 5,45 and 7,62, which will not bring anything good except for hemorrhoids. It’s not clear why not AK-107.

They adopted the AK-12, AK-15, AK-971 and AK-973 weapons. The debate about which caliber of automatic weapons is better - 7,62 or 5,45 mm has been going on since 1974 .... But firing at the firing range is one thing, and real combat is another. And when, depending on the task, there is a choice, it is always good. AEK and not 107,108 because it is not a prototype but a well-developed machine. I think besides this is an alternative to Izhevsk. Although in the same pin dos tan ak-107, ak-108 are also very much appreciated. They just admire him.

[Victorio]

I would take ak-47