"Shell" will receive a "budget" rocket to fight drones

The arsenal of Russian air defense systems will be replenished with a small-sized anti-aircraft missile, which was created taking into account the experience in the use of the Pantsir air defense missile system in Syria, according to News.

“For a fairly tiny size, the novelty has already received the nickname“ nail ”from the military. Four "nails" are installed in one regular launch container "Pantsir". In the future, the novelty will be the main tool to combat high weapons“- the newspaper writes.

Currently, the new rocket is being tested.

For the first time, small-scale missiles were presented at the Army-2017 forum. Its developer is Tula Instrument Design Bureau JSC. The missiles are designed to destroy unmanned aerial vehicles and, in the long term, to destroy high-precision weapons combat units.

According to the information, “the rocket is completed with a powder accelerator detachable in flight with a lightweight body made of composite materials; the engine is installed only on the upper stage, and after its separation, the product flies by inertia ”. Four small-sized missiles are installed in the container of a standard “Pantsir” rocket of caliber 170 / 90 mm.

First of all, we are talking about the interception of small drones and single unguided missiles. To combat such targets, it is possible to use the standard Pantsir missile, but it is too expensive. That is why the development of a simpler "budget" rocket was required. It will be inferior to the regular one in range, but at the same time it will be more maneuverable. Its combat characteristics are sufficient to cope with the tasks before it,

explained military expert Anton Lavrov.

At the same time, in his opinion, the novelty will significantly increase the ammunition "Pantsir".

Four small-size rockets can be charged into the standard launch canister. It is also possible that one installation will be equipped with several types of missiles at once. The operator will be able to choose the type of ammunition depending on the combat mission,

said the expert.

Comments

[tchoni]

and she can intercept mines, mines? -)

[Chertt]

It is very good that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation not only responds to existing threats, but also calculates possible ones, and prepares for them in advance

[ul_vitalii]

It looks like this missile has passed most of the tests, we are waiting in the troops.

[Yuyuka]

Quote: Chertt

It is very good that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation not only responds to existing threats, but also calculates possible ones, and prepares for them in advance

pleased with the responsiveness - as in the Second World War - conclusions are immediately drawn and decisions made

[ziqzaq]

tchoni Today, 10: 02
and she can intercept mines, mines? -) [/ quote]
It would be very good, let's hope that the development will be brought to this option .....

[rocket757]

But this is real progress! The system is developing according to technical and economic indicators, too !!!
It is logical, correct, economical to pull up the performance characteristics for the fight against mines and he will not have a price !!!
However, he is already the BEST in terms of indicators !!!

[NEXUS]

Quote: rocket757

However, he is already the BEST in terms of indicators !!!

A question of tasks and opportunities. Recently, there has been a lot of talk about Triumphs, Shells, but there is no mention of Torahs and Buki. Although these complexes are wonderful for their tasks.
At the same time, there is absolutely silence about the development of Vityaz (S-350) and Morpheus. I suppose, from part, Morpheus drove his nail and Shell into the lid of the coffin, which is very wrong. Morpheus, as a complex of near interception, on a par with the Shell is needed. Especially in the marine version.

[rocket757]

A variety of systems when performing the same tasks is not useful. Difficulties in the manufacture and supply of spare parts for many failed very much. Our production capacities are very limited and they are not able to fully saturate our air defense with finished products of all sorts and different, and you need to do export, lively little money.
Another IMPORTANT NEED to dock / harmonize all systems into a single center of operational AUTOMATED control. This is now very, if not the most important !!!
The troops and closer to the front line need well-protected, passable systems like the TOP and the like, but in general, the priorities now are probably different ???
A linear confrontation of troops is not expected, and for the protection of objects and complexes of long-range air defense-missile defense is determined by the Shell.
We will be realistic. Our production capacities are limited and the identified priorities are justified. To do everything and more without a harmonious coordinated system is not right.
So it seems to me, but what did they count at headquarters ??? But who does this seem to us?

[NEXUS]

Quote: rocket757

A variety of systems when performing the same tasks is not useful

The tasks are not exactly the same ... the TOR are the systems of military air defense, and the Shell is the short-range missile defense systems. It is clear that they can fulfill each other’s tasks, but this raises the question of price. At the same time, the TOP-complex is tested and very reliable.
At the same time, all this heterogeneity gives this very separation and problems for the enemy to get around all these complexes.

[rocket757]

I indicated the TOR precisely as an army system, armored and passable ... and the fact that it is needed is understandable.
We can’t get into the brains of staff strategists and we don’t know how their priorities are set.
By analogy with past events, I think. that if there is no way to do everything at once, without prejudice to one another, you can do !!! Otherwise, do what is necessary and ready for production now !!! Not I brought this truth, I agree with her one hundred percent !!!

[Pacifist]

For intercepting mines, a machine on the subject of "Air Defense Derivation" is better suited, and on small UAVs, to be honest, it is better. But that's my personal opinion.
In general, the news is gorgeous, the correct reaction to the situation. It is only necessary to increase the channel for goals by a factor of two, and in general it will be wonderful, otherwise 4 channels are not enough to work on mass UAV raids.

[faiver]

and she can intercept mines, mines? -)

- kanesh, especially anti-tank

[Yuyuka]

Quote: faiver

and she can intercept mines, mines? -)

- kanesh, especially anti-tank

I also drew attention to this - in the rear part as plumage 4 sapper blades

[Genry]

Quote: tchoni

and she can intercept mines, mines? -)

This was not done for mines ... They will end quickly and the price is incommensurable.
For mines you need a special cannon shell.

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Genry

For mines you need a special cannon shell.

not necessarily special - just one formatting unit as calculated by the mines)))

[Genry]

Quote: K0

not necessarily special - just one formatting unit as calculated by the mines)))

If you see this calculation, despite the fact that they will already change position ...

[Genry]

Quote: K0

not necessarily special - just one formatting unit as calculated by the mines)))

It needs directional action and the fragments must be a dense cloud in order to get into the fuse.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Genry

For mines you need a special cannon shell.

It’s very debatable ... here, they created the “Nail” for the Shell, but for the TOP, why not create a mini-interception rocket that would be imprisoned for such tasks?

[Genry]

Quote: NEXUS

It’s very debatable ... here, they created the “Nail” for the Shell, but for the TOP, why not create a mini-interception rocket that would be imprisoned for such tasks?

The mine has a fixed trajectory and does not require a guided projectile (rocket). All that is needed is the right moment to detonate the fragmentation mass, which can be done using a timer that is programmed when fired.
And another important point. How many mines do you expect your defense? The missile will not be enough ... And the projectile can be implemented in the form of a 30 mm cartridge. The cost of a shot is perhaps the most important point.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Genry

And another important point. How many mines do you expect your defense?

Do you think that those means of the Khmeimi defense perimeter will allow massive shelling with such mines of our base?

Quote: Genry

There will not be enough rockets ...

If you imagine that there will be 2-4 mini-missiles in each TOR launcher, then the salvo of intercepting one division will be quite impressive.

[Genry]

Quote: NEXUS

Do you think that those means of the Khmeimi defense perimeter will allow massive shelling with such mines of our base?

It was already splashed in the "new year."
You cannot guarantee that mortars and ammunition will not be transported in parts and that they are prepared for the hour “X”. Then, simultaneously, a strike from different positions can be struck.

Quote: NEXUS

If you imagine that there will be 2-4 mini-missiles in each TOR launcher, then the salvo of intercepting one division will be quite impressive.

A mortar in a minute will fill you with more than 40 minutes, two mortars ....
Will you keep an air defense division on every corner ???
It is necessary that one installation could withstand a fire attack of 3 mortars within a minute and cover the length of the perimeter of about 1,5-2 km (taking into account possible failure and the possibility of closing the gap with neighboring installations).

[NEXUS]

Quote: Genry

It was already splashed in the "new year."

They never expected such a “gift”, therefore they were not ready ..

Quote: Genry

Then, simultaneously, a strike from different positions can be struck.

Quote: Genry

A mortar in a minute will fill you with more than 40 minutes, two mortars ....

Apparently the same sentinel guard groups, our UAVs don’t do anything at all, but they stupidly wipe their pants while the majahideen massively prepare for shelling the base ...
can pour a mortar, but only who will give it?

Quote: Genry

It is necessary that one installation could withstand a fire attack of 3 mortars within a minute and cover the length of the perimeter of about 1,5-2 km (taking into account possible failure and the possibility of closing the gap with neighboring installations).

Isn’t it easier to work with the local population besides setting up patrol groups and monitoring the approaches of UAVs, so that at the stage conceived by the majahideen, it will stop all this?

[Genry]

Quote: NEXUS

can pour a mortar, but only who will give it?

God grant you to react in a minute. And they don’t need more than a minute, the barrel will overheat and the mines will end.

Quote: NEXUS

Isn’t it easier to work with the local population besides setting up patrol groups and monitoring the approaches of UAVs, so that at the stage conceived by the majahideen, it will stop all this?

UAV reconnaissance may or may not be. They can point-correct according to bookmark marks, ...
Work with the public is an indirect defense and cannot be absolutely reliable. The local population may simply not see where a jeep or pickup truck drove. They have trade - it’s sacred and everyone travels. And finding a courtyard position for half an hour of preparation is not a problem for saboteurs.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: tchoni

1
tchoni Today, 10:02 AM New
and she can intercept mines, mines? -)

Anti-tank mines installed in the ground? After minor modifications, easily.
All that is needed is to put a gas analyzer to search for explosives by smell, like a dog. And to ensure the mode of hovering above the ground at a certain height, so that after "sniffing out" to hit this mine at the very same place. Well, if she didn’t “sniff out”, then she should fly to another site to repeat the procedure. And so on until she finds someone to neutralize.
Something like that.

[Genry]

Quote: Captain Pushkin

All that is needed is to put a gas analyzer to search for explosives by smell, like a dog.

It was about mortar mines ...
There are systems that detect landmines by the radar method and destroy them with a directed beam of energy ("Foliage").

[Orionvit]

Quote: tchoni

and she can intercept mines, mines?

Nobody can. I heard that in the states (and maybe not only in the states), the laser system for the destruction of shells and mines was being developed, but the system was not brought to mind.

[Servisinzhener]

On satellite TV they showed a program about such a laser system, it was called Zeus, unless of course my memory serves me. But it was intended for mine clearance, and not a word about the laser shooting of flying mines. Israel has an Iron Ray system for destroying such objects in flight. How much it is distributed and applied is unknown to me. Can our Israeli comrades talk in more detail?

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: tchoni

and she can intercept mines, mines? -)

no can, the time to defeat is too short

[Valery Saitov]

Mines are knocked down (but not all) by a 30 mm cannon. Firing (cut-off) is fired at 12 or 24 shots. They were shown on TV.

[Alexey-74]

Very competent decision. "Nail" in the ass of all the enemies of Russia!

[Olfred]

cheers comrades? the missile is highly specialized and I doubt that the range of its goals except drones includes anything else, obviously there are enough explosives and fragments only for small-sized purposes, I’m generally silent about planes. And yes, a timely response to new threats.

[aszzz888]

It turns out a complete package - 48 "nails". Not bad at all. This is how much you can “forge” such nails, in terms of greens, for ONE Merikatos shot from Zamvolt ?!

[novel66]

a shot from the "zamvolta" more destructive than the "aurora"

[Yuyuka]

Quote: novel xnumx

a shot from the "zamvolta" more destructive than the "aurora"

it remains for the "Russian hackers" to enter the coordinates of the "Winter Palace"

[Romario_Argo]

rather on 12 TPK - 6 standard missiles and 6 TPK x 4 Nails = 24, total: 30 SAM
As a rule, they work as a couple for the S-400 air defense division, we get 60 SAM

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Romario_Argo

1
Romario_Argo Today, 10:53 ↑ New
rather, 12 TPK - 6 standard missiles and 6 TPK x 4 Nails = 24, total: 30 SAM
As a rule, they work as a couple for the S-400 air defense division, we get 60 SAM

That is, 400-90 of the most seedy drones are enough for the S-100 division? Inexpensive ...

[Romario_Argo]

S-400 air defense missile systems consists of two divisions, their positions are located at a distance of no more than 10 km, overlapping the radio horizon mutually at a distance of 40 km.
those. ZRPK Shell will be 4 machines and the total BC is 120 SAM

o is there enough 400-90 of the most seedy drones on the C-100 division? Inexpensive ...

not. not enough (!)

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Romario_Argo

km, overlapping the radio horizon mutually at a distance of 40 km.
those. ZRPK Shell will be already 4 cars and the total BC is 120 missiles

Well, that means two "salvos" of 90-100 of the most seedy drones, and there are no two S-400 divisions worth one or two billion dollars .... Inexpensive.
Alas, now air defense systems are significantly more expensive than the means of destroying these systems. And such systems as the S-400 need a significantly stronger cover with object-based air defense systems than is currently planned.

[Romario_Argo]

you are not thinking about that
First you need to try to go through military air defense and then if you get only air defense - industrial areas
Air defense of the air is: SAM Tor, Buk M2 / M3, S-300V4, Osa-AKM, SAM Tunguska
Everything is very complex, we don’t even consider air cover yet

[Kent0001]

The main thing here is that it is inexpensive. And if you explode it inside the "swarm", so the damaging effect will increase even more.

[alexmach]

Yes, there, and the original shell rocket, it seems, is not expensive.
So I do not quite understand why this rocket has the best maneuverability? Less speed? Or is there a smaller acceleration section, and at the same time a smaller “dead zone”?

[novel66]

it is light - small inertia

[alexmach]

So the original rocket is not heavy. 28 kilograms weight of the second stage, of which 20 - warhead. Made it even easier? Well done.

It is still not entirely clear why they should be put in a standard TPK. Why your own more roomy for them not to do. Will the new TPK not get ready for the Shell?

[novel66]

So. and it’s more convenient - depending on the task, you need to plow and bang!

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: alexmach

Why your own more roomy for them not to do. Will the new TPK not get ready for the Shell?

Unification and interchangeability. Just necessary things for weapons systems.

[rotmistr60]

The main thing is that it is effective and cheaper than today's full-time. And then the opposition was already drowning in snot, lamenting that we are getting involved in an arms race and we are facing another collapse.

[bouncyhunter]

Gene, hello! It is a logical and logical decision. Why shoot a cannon at a sparrow if there are such "Nails".

[rotmistr60]

Hello Pasha!

"Nails"

For some reason, it immediately came to mind - the last nail in the lid of the coffin (enemy).

[bouncyhunter]

Yes, there are possible options: in the lid of the coffin or in the ass.

[Dead duck]

Quote: rotmistr60

The main thing is that it is effective and cheaper than today's full-time.

And shells are not cheaper? ...
You can work with a couple of trunks, and not all.
Accuracy will increase, projectile consumption will decrease.

[Glory1974]

You can work with a couple of trunks, and not all.
Accuracy will increase, projectile consumption will decrease.

Yes, something "Shell" does not sparkle with fire from cannons. Somewhere on the site there was a video that he couldn’t shoot down flying guns, he had to shoot rockets.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Deadush

1
Deadushka Today, 12:01 ↑
Quote: rotmistr60
The main thing is that it is effective and cheaper than today's full-time.

hi
And shells are not cheaper? ...

The projectile must be with a non-contact fuse. This is not cheap, if you multiply by the expense of one goal. Plus, the 30mm caliber is too small for a fragmentation munition with a non-contact fuse and is ineffective.

[Mavrikiy]

"Shell" will receive a "budget" rocket to fight drones

Well, I don’t really want to speak Russian. To tell cheap - not really, but “Budgetary” and sweet in the mouth.

[novel66]

cheap - it gives poverty, but it smells like a cut from the budget

[Alexkorzun]

Of course, I’m far from thinking of falling into insanity, like our Little Russian brothers (Ukrainians), who call the "condom" - "humic natsyutsurnik." This is too much.
But why not call an inexpensive racket - "cheap" ?????

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Alexkorzun

But why not call an inexpensive racket - "cheap" ?????

Well, if only because it is not cheap at all. You can’t buy cheap snow from our efficient managers even in winter.

[Alex-a832]

Pleases. The real weapon of war is that it is cheap, reliable and efficient. An enemy’s super-air-waffle, worth $ 100 million, needs an effective missile worth up to $ 10 thousand. The development of our air defense systems is a priority.

[Shuttle]

This is an interim solution. Necessary, but sufficient. The possibilities of a swarm of UAVs are easily increased by the tactics of the behavior of the swarm. And this very behavior is practically worthless, because it is a sequence of control signals.
For example, a swarm can be chosen for a target dispersed, and therefore covertly. Go straight over the goal, i.e. minimizing the time it takes to find oneself.
In short, to combat this big swarm is not enough.

[Genry]

A swarm of small drones will not reach far. And there will not be many large UAVs and will not be able to shoot an economical missile for long.

[Alexander War]

Good news! Now, along the entire western border, place S-2 Armor!

[RL]

And in the southwest, and in the south, and in the southeast, and in the east, and the northeast is not to offend. And then, you see, smuggling is already being thrown by drones!

[Reserve buildbat]

It turns out, the "nail" caliber of the 35-40 millimeters? I wonder what kind of warhead is there.

[Alexander War]

I wonder what kind of warhead is there. No more than MANPADS Igla

[Reserve buildbat]

It's clear. Just interesting weight and splinters. I doubt that there is a core

[Alexander War]

High-explosive fragmentation warhead 9N330

[Labor]

Wow the bays! Nail them in sneakers!

[Guru]

And if there will be MORE goals than budget missiles, then WHAT? If they had also created an automatic loading system like rockets. Then Yes, this is a breakthrough, because the operator will be able to choose which missiles to shoot down the target. And just zilch.

[Azim77]

Then it’s easier to shoot down drones with shrapnel. Those. back to the small anti-aircraft gun ..

[Valery Saitov]

It takes time to create the Shell-2, then ... 3. Here they will provide automatic loaders to select missiles. And the threat of drones already exists, so for now they are choosing a quick and budget option.

[thinker]

the novelty has already received the nickname "nail" from the military

Everyone remembers how a nail is needed from childhood.
Nail and horseshoe
There was no nail -
Horseshoe
Gone.
There was no horseshoe -
Horse
I was limping.
The horse limped -
Commander
Killed.
The cavalry is defeated -
Army
Running
The enemy enters the city,
Captive not sparing
Because in the forge
There was no nail.
Samuel Marshak

[Old26]

Quote: tchoni

and she can intercept mines, mines? -)

Hardly. You want too much from this complex

Quote: Pacifist

You just need to increase the channel for goals by a factor of two and it’ll be wonderful

Is not a fact. Perhaps just an increase in ammunition and its cost reduction

Quote: K0

Quote: Genry

For mines you need a special cannon shell.

not necessarily special - just one formatting unit as calculated by the mines)))

To do this, you need not a radar of an air defense system, but a radar sharpened to detect the trajectory of the same mines. At least we had such a radar - "ZOO". Combining everything in one complex at once is rather silly and technically sometimes impossible ....

Quote: NEXUS

can pour a mortar, but only who will give it?

Elementary. As most likely, they “poured” it before the New Year. The airbase area is a city building with a huge number of local, dirt roads. There are several dozen of them. A jeep appears from behind the hills, in the back of which is a Cornflower. Firing time - 1-2 minutes. Under a hundred minutes with a good calculation will provide. And what do you have time to do in 1-2 minutes ????

Quote: Kent0001

The main thing here is that it is inexpensive. And if you explode it inside the "swarm", so the damaging effect will increase even more.

I think that you should not understand the word "swarm" so literally. This is not a hundred drones, going "shoulder to shoulder" to the target. There may be a dozen running at the same time. And these ten can be called a "swarm"
The “nail” for the “Shell” is definitely a lesser effect in terms of the radius of destruction and almost certainly in range. Although the density of the fragments can be much higher. This is unlikely to be a high-explosive shell, which, when blown up inside a "swarm", will blow everything in its path

Quote: alexmach

It is still not entirely clear why they should be put in a standard TPK. Why your own more roomy for them not to do. Will the new TPK not get ready for the Shell?

Paving under each new rocket or modification of your container? No, of course, you can make a container for 4, 8, and 18 missiles. but where will he get up? Seats have their own dimensions

[Genry]

Quote: Old26

To do this, you need not a radar of an air defense system, but a radar sharpened to detect the trajectory of the same mines. ... Combining everything in one complex at once is rather silly and technically sometimes impossible ....

Mines are clearly visible with an optical radar (warm, against a cold sky). In addition to the ZARK “Shell” there is a light “Pine” (there are separate versions of the ZAK and SAM), which uses an optical station and, in fact, can be the base for protection against low-flying air targets (we are talking about mines).
In continuation of the "stupid ... and impossible" ... radars with headlamps are already outdated and ROFAR will come in their place (now we skip the CAR period, a couple of such radars do not count). They combine the capabilities of radio and optical detection stations. The technology is simpler and cheaper, active antennas will simply be printed on an insulator substrate, like microcircuits. In Russia, they will begin to be used in a year (drones, tanks, planes, and the Su57 will also hook).

Quote: Old26

At least we had such a radar - "ZOO".

For the detection of shells, mines (plus miscellaneous) there is still a portable radar "Aistenok".