Military Review

State Department approved sale of F-34 aircraft to Belgium by 35

127
The US State Department authorized the possible supply of Belgium 34 multi-purpose fifth-generation fighter-bomber F-35 totaling $ 6,53 billion dollars, according to the Defense Cooperation and Security Agency, which is part of the Pentagon.


State Department approved sale of F-34 aircraft to Belgium by 35


In addition to the aircraft themselves, the Belgian government has requested four more additional Pratt & Whitney F135 engines for them, and Belgium also wants to buy electronic warfare, control and communication systems from the United States. weapons F-35 systems, infrared reflectors, fighter spare parts.

As the Pentagon notes, the deal of Belgium and the United States, if approved by Congress, will allow "strengthening the security of the ally country" and "deterring aggression in the region", as well as interacting more effectively with US forces.

Notification of a potential sale of equipment is required by law and does not mean that the transaction has already taken place.

Earlier, US President Donald Trump announced that the United States had made a deal to buy X-NUMX's F-52 for a total amount of 35 billion dollars with Norway.
Photos used:
http://www.globallookpress.com/
127 comments
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  1. ul_vitalii
    ul_vitalii 20 January 2018 08: 11 New
    12
    Already packs began to sell. belay
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 20 January 2018 08: 17 New
      11
      Trump is great, he brings in lots of big .. And you pay good money! If only we would transfer% of the transaction for the "Russian threat" ... laughing
      1. Tusv
        Tusv 20 January 2018 08: 54 New
        +2
        Trump is great, he brings in lots of big .. And you pay good money! If only we would transfer% of the transaction for the "Russian threat" ...

        Well done were. Atila, Timur and Timujin. They looked at the Russians across the river and realized that there was nothing to catch, acre stars, but some were masochists, starting from Batu. 300 years stuffed for the title of Grand Duke. The cones were filled with mountains of Alatau. And O Great Allah. Yusupov got it, but through the pitot and not through the river, and not great., But only with great labor
        World History from Tusw, part 3
        1. maxim947
          maxim947 20 January 2018 09: 49 New
          +5
          It’s not even a matter of “raw” planes, although the planes are good and constantly being developed, but of scribbling our enemies with modern technology and loading up their production in full, which means big incomes and, accordingly, the availability of money for new developments. By the way, why Europeans do not take their products, rafals, etc.?
          1. LSA57
            LSA57 20 January 2018 10: 10 New
            +1
            Quote: maxim947
            By the way, why Europeans do not take their products, rafals, etc.?

            phasing is not allowed. and Belgium is known to be his most loyal vassal. don't dare to sneeze without permission
            1. Vladimir16
              Vladimir16 20 January 2018 12: 30 New
              +1
              Europe continues to work on mattresses.
              This is the price of Hitler’s defeat and its Caudles (Italians, Romanians, Finns, Czechs, Poles, Hungarians ... - Europeans fought for Hitler).
              Both Belgians and Germans, and the rest of the gang of fraternities, will be laborers, governments will collect taxes and send taxes to the states. And military Europe needs aircraft and other crap like a fifth leg for a dog. These supplies cover the transfer of tribute.
              It’s just that the Americans cannot get anything else to Europe. There is no excuse. Yes, and mattresses rose only on military products. It has HUGE added value.
              How a plane flies is a matter of seventy-fifth. No one is going to fight on it. Twenty years will be sold. Then a new pepelats will appear, this one will be written off. And everything in a circle.
              The process has a name - DEMOCRACY! wink People power. The power of the victorious people over the losing nations.
              1. Korax71
                Korax71 20 January 2018 14: 52 New
                +1
                Here is another clever man, about the rise in arms. For the sake of general development, look at the profitability of the military-industrial complex in the USA and compare it with other industries.
            2. Korax71
              Korax71 20 January 2018 14: 49 New
              0
              The United States also purchases weapons from Belgium. The same fn5.7. What do you even get from which ceiling. And at this stage of time there are more interesting offers from someone. They were able to make a pretty good plane, they advertised it well, demand for It’s permanent, production is loaded. In conscience, it would be worth learning. The USA has 2 military orders more than our military-industrial complex sells in a year.
      2. Lexus
        Lexus 20 January 2018 15: 46 New
        0
        Yes, they reached serious serial volumes and “tasty” contracts.
    2. tchoni
      tchoni 20 January 2018 08: 21 New
      15
      What do you think? Brought to mind - and now they are selling) So Congratulations! now BELGIUM fifth generation fighters will have more than us)))
      1. Rusland
        Rusland 20 January 2018 08: 32 New
        16
        Now every member and member of NATO will want such toys in a decent amount.
        1. Kent0001
          Kent0001 20 January 2018 09: 46 New
          +4
          So it will be, and it is all against us if someone does not understand this.
        2. Filxnumx
          Filxnumx 20 January 2018 10: 23 New
          0
          Quote: Rusland
          Now every member and member of NATO will want such toys in a decent amount.


          and not only tsp, but also other parts of the body laughing
        3. tchoni
          tchoni 20 January 2018 10: 26 New
          0
          Now be quiet. will provide everyone. This year mass production begins. And in 25 promise to reduce the release of more than 2000 pieces.
      2. oldseaman1957
        oldseaman1957 20 January 2018 08: 59 New
        +7
        Quote: tchoni
        So CONGRATULATIONS! now BELGIUM fifth generation fighters will have more than us)))
        - Why panic? F-35 - complete bullshit, which also costs huge grandmas. So the mattresses HAVE BEEN VAPORED THEM!
        /// One of the main designers of the F-16 fighter Pierre Spray in an interview with the American Internet resource Digg.com ('IT'S INHERENTLY A TERRIBLE AIRPLANE' The Designer Of The F-16 Explains Just How Stupid The F-35 Is) called F- 35 "turkey". In America, a turkey is one of the symbols of a hybrid of stupidity and satiety. According to Spray, all attempts to create a universal aircraft of the F-35 type are doomed to failure. Take, for example, the F-35 vertical take-off designed for the Marine Corps. A massive propulsion system “eats” a significant part of the aircraft’s carrying capacity, and relatively small wings do not provide it with the necessary maneuverability for either air combat or for direct support of ground forces. The same lack of maneuverability are different options developed for the Air Force and Navy. The maximum speed of F-35, which is Mach 1,6, is also unlikely to amaze the imagination, given the fact that this figure in modern fighters in Russia, Europe and the USA, including F-15 and F-16, either reaches or exceeds 2 Maha. As for the “invisibility” of the F-35, according to the American Internet resource Fool.com, this invisibility can be ensured only if it carries all its bombs and missiles inside itself, and this is only 17% of its capabilities. (For the US Navy, that's a problem.) If something is on external suspensions, this aircraft becomes as noticeable as conventional winged cars. (In fact, China says it already has a radar system capable of detecting the F-35 at distances of 240 to 360 miles. By processing "pulse, frequency agility, pulse duration, tactical air navigation system, distance measuring equipment, jitter / stagger radar, and identification friend or foe" signals emitted by the otherwise stealthy aircraft, China says it can detect an F-35 at distances two to three times beyond the range of the F-35's AMRAAM missile). The American magazine Popular Mechanics called the F-35 "impressive misfortune", and according to one of the test pilots of this machine, it is "not worth a penny" (New stealth fighter is dead meat in an air battle) in aerial combat. At the same time, the magazine referred to the declassified report on the tests of the F-35, which hit the pages of the American Internet resource War is Boring. This report contained information on test air battles conducted between the F-35 and F-16, which has been in the arsenal of the US Air Force for over 40 years. Despite the fact that the F-35 flew as light as possible, and the F-16 "dragged" fuel tanks under its wings, the "old man" in these battles showed much better fighter qualities. According to The Week magazine, "it's time to put an end to this." “The only reason this has not yet been done is the money already spent on this program. Many military experts agree that combat aircraft could better solve their tasks using the F-16 and F-18 than the prohibitively expensive F-35, ”the author of the publication believes. “What about the much-vaunted US air superiority and the need to have XNUMXst-century super-planes to hold back China? He asks.
        1. Kent0001
          Kent0001 20 January 2018 09: 45 New
          +8
          Well then, the Americans are super - booper huckster. Vparivayut "bullshit" at a frantic price tag. And we mainly sell our super-functional weapons to almost “aborigines” and then on credit, because they don’t even have money for their pants.
        2. tchoni
          tchoni 20 January 2018 10: 24 New
          +5
          Yes, shyyy ran into this maneuverability and close combat !? It’s still necessary to finish it. The I-15 pulled the Messerschmitt in terms of maneuverability, but that this was unsaved from the catastrophic losses of 41m. hi
        3. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 20 January 2018 11: 07 New
          12
          This is a very outdated infa. PO F-35 then limited its maneuverability to 5 G.
          Now the restrictions are removed. The norm is 9 G. The Norwegian fighter pilots who transferred from F-16 to F-35 described in detail their impressions: the F-35 makes steeper and more stable turns, it brakes sharply, it is easier to control. The pilot is less focused on piloting and more on weapons.
          1. synthwave
            synthwave 20 January 2018 22: 45 New
            +1
            This is a very outdated infa.
            True, she does not lose her relevance a hundred years ago and now.

            Now the restrictions are removed. Norm - 9 G.
            I explain the game. Maneuverability is not directly related to overload restrictions. Its 9g, it’s just a guarantee from the manufacturer that the plane will not fall apart at such an overload. At the same time, he had a turn, with empty tanks, at best, at the level of the first episodes of 29 blinks of the 80s of the release, judging by the vidos with his flight program. A climb, generally dull, at the level of aircraft of 3 generations. Yes, and a speed of 1.6m is a heavenly low-speed ... This is below the level below 3 generation aircraft, if that lol . Like a fighter, kalich is shorter ...

            Norwegian fighter pilots who moved from F-16 to F-35 described their experiences in detail
            Which of course can’t lie. The creator of F16 is lying, and the proud Norwegian aces (lol), in a country that does not have its own aviation industry, (but there is some independence for American planes) say the clear "truth." But if they had lied and said “dirty lies” to the Norwegian aces, they would have ceased to be laughing .

            The pilot is less focused on piloting and more on weapons.
            This is the merit of avionics and not LTTH. F16 is not so clumsy a plane to distract the pilot so much.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 20 January 2018 23: 03 New
              +4
              I will no longer engage in discussions with you, sorry. I do not know what is more about you: ignorance or obstinacy. recourse But there is no point in continuing the dialogue. sad
              1. synthwave
                synthwave 20 January 2018 23: 07 New
                +2
                I will no longer engage in discussions with you, sorry.
                Translated: "I have no arguments, because there is no knowledge in this topic and I have nothing to cover, so I will play a polite Israeli and quietly merge into the toilet with my" opinion ".

                I do not know what is more about you: ignorance or obstinacy.
                I have more knowledge of a Jew, of knowledge. And yes, you play a polite Jew, play to the end. And then to declare someone’s ignorance, without explaining the reasons, is already rudeness in itself.

                But there is no point in continuing the dialogue.
                I was not going to conduct a dialogue with you. But he denied the nonsense that you wrote (your old mantra, I see it not the first time), but you have nothing to answer me. That's all.
                1. ventel
                  ventel 21 January 2018 00: 36 New
                  +1
                  Sorry, I’ll intervene, of course, not specifically, but on the grounds on which the Soviet pilots when conducting training battles Mig21 with F5 were surprised that the fighter for second-class countries was the main fighter of the USSR. And here I see how some people take only the performance characteristics of airplanes but don’t see how the parties will use them.
                  1. synthwave
                    synthwave 21 January 2018 01: 09 New
                    +1
                    He didn’t do anything there. The fact that F5 was highly appreciated by Soviet specialists (and this aircraft was underestimated) was. F5 in terms of avionics was well equipped and after its study measures were taken. And in the LTTH part there wasn’t much difference. Yes, and I would not say that the F5 is second-rate. Just in style, he didn’t fit the Americans very well (he was just closer to the Soviet fighters), and he flew long and successfully.
                    And as for the application, for now it remains only to judge by that info which is. Unless it's brochures, of course. And according to this info, 35 in its current form, there are not enough stars from the sky.
                    1. ventel
                      ventel 21 January 2018 02: 16 New
                      0
                      But what about the war for Odegen, after all, there are statistics of the downed Ethiopian F5 and Somali MIGs. But here they say that the F35 is also, as it were, second-rate and doesn’t suit the Americans in terms of “style”. And you judge SU57 by what information, and yet many consider this aircraft to have almost no analogues, although it has not yet reached the series.
                      1. synthwave
                        synthwave 21 January 2018 02: 52 New
                        +1
                        But what about the war for Odegen because there are statistics of downed Ethiopian F5 and Somali MIGs.
                        Honestly, I don’t know anything about this conflict. If there MiGs got burned by the F5, the reasons can be different, from pilots to tactics and supplies. And what kind of MiGs were there, the forces of the parties, etc.

                        But here they say that the F35 is also, as it were, second-rate and does not suit the Americans in terms of "style."
                        The style is just very suitable. Darling, stealth and kind of like a cool avionics. All the flesh is that it not 5th generation fighter (I feel the farts burst), it doesn’t pull on LTTH, it's more like a lightweight stealth bomber. But his fans, from which they are sure that this is not a problem, he, allegedly, will punish everyone in long-range combat, thanks to super radar and stealth. Admonishing adherents of invisibility and air battles at a distance of 200 km is very difficult. Hence the debate.

                        And you judge SU57 by what information, and yet many consider this aircraft to have almost no analogues, although it has not yet reached the series.
                        Ну I personally 57 until I make any firm conclusions. There was infa that he is with his native engine, even 3 years will be tested. So for the time being there is simply restrained optimism in connection with the declared characteristics, demonstration flights and a valuable program and unit. But I do not think that this will be an imba that will give everyone a rotan in any situation. This does not happen. And I understand very well that 57 will be built for a long time and not in such quantities as the Americans rivet their planes.
                    2. tchoni
                      tchoni 21 January 2018 07: 32 New
                      0
                      Quote: synthwave
                      And in the LTTH part there wasn’t much difference. Yes, and I would not say that the F5 is second-rate.

                      It was precisely the difference in LTX that determined the TAG’s complete superiority over the MiG in close combat. And yes! The machine was originally conceived as an ersatz fighter for white countries.
                      1. synthwave
                        synthwave 21 January 2018 07: 43 New
                        0
                        Well, please indicate the exact modification of the 21 instant (if you mean it) and which F5. Compare the characteristics. Complete superiority in the BB is extremely doubtful. And the fact that F5 was made for export does not make it trash. Here's how their Americans used it:

                        In the US, the Tigers entered only the specialized units of the "aggressors" of the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps. They turned out to be closest to the MiG-21 - The main probable opponent of American aces. The best pilots were selected in the squadron of "aggressors" and it is not surprising that they most often won in battles with much more modern F-14s, F-15s and F-16s.
                        The fighter had excellent maneuverability and rarely went into a tailspin. Thanks to these properties, aerobatic teams on the F-5 have been created in many countries.
                        http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/f5a.html
        4. Korax71
          Korax71 20 January 2018 14: 56 New
          0
          F16 is produced by Boeing, F35 Lockheed Martin. Most of the internal and external orders he interrupted the Boeing. You seriously think that people are not biased broadcasting. It seems like competitors.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 20 January 2018 20: 18 New
            +3
            Both F-16 and F-35 are Lockheed products. Boeing launches F-15
      3. PalBor
        PalBor 20 January 2018 09: 17 New
        +5
        Quote: tchoni
        What do you think? Brought to mind - and now they are selling) So Congratulations! now BELGIUM fifth generation fighters will have more than us)))

        Why do they need to fight Luxembourg? Or bomb refugee camps?
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 20 January 2018 11: 02 New
          +3
          Yankees, they are so stupid !!!
          Yeah, I realized for a long time that the plane turned out not ah, the average station wagon, i.e. neither a good bomber, nor a fighter, nor an attack aircraft ... dear in every way, but SELL THAT IS NECESSARY !!!
          And then they played cunningly - the advertisement was super and the military hysteria was untwisted at the very best !!!
          Those who are supposed to, among the allies, understand everything perfectly, the aircraft is "raw", and much better, after completion, it will not become. But these issues were resolved radically, and for the layman there will be enough advertising with different horror stories !!!
          The plane is not for war with a serious opponent that you do not say there and do not invent in addition, this is a pirate raider against a weak enemy. The main denyushka went to the Yankees and the allies are tied tightly to their master !!!
          For us, such a trick is impossible by definition, everything that is done should be necessary to shorten the Schaub's heap !!! Such is the bum. So say after this that the Yankees are stupid! When you need to come up with something you need at times !!!
          1. Mih1974
            Mih1974 20 January 2018 11: 04 New
            +2
            I'm afraid to ask - who is the “serious opponent” for Belgium? laughing Who can they really fight with? negative
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 20 January 2018 11: 23 New
              +3
              They will merge into a flock and fly again, no matter who leads to democracy ... under the command of the striped! Everything is logical, everything is predictable !!!
          2. shura7782
            shura7782 20 January 2018 13: 12 New
            +2
            Quote: rocket757
            Yankees, they are so stupid !!!
            ...........! When you need to come up with something you need at times !!!

            Sir, your entire delusional post from the pseudo-patriotic rank. It is not solid in this way to earn stars for yourself. Or not the first time?
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 20 January 2018 14: 47 New
              +4
              Did you notice a bunch of likes under my text ???
              I like Zadornov’s work, I don’t mind laughing at ridiculous identities, but I don’t agree with everyone or everything that is in fashion now. By the way, Zadornov also admits that when the Yankees undertook to solve the PROBLEM, they will solve it !!!
              In fact, as I consider it, the aircraft is medium / weak in terms of performance characteristics, but very "smart". The Yankees began to sell it, and this is an absolute success, they plan to integrate it into the global Euro air defense \ missile defense system and the further development of this topic !!! This is an absolute success!
              Our flyers, experts are skeptical of the aircraft, PENGUIN, IRON and more. I don’t argue, he doesn’t look like an amateur and a flyer ... because of his advancement, he wouldn’t fit in with us, because there’s nowhere to enter it !!! I hope so far, because the SU 57, and the following models MUST BE SMARTER, have to enter them somewhere.
              Is something done for this ??? I think so, but we are lagging behind here, the Yankees can only envy. However, our system is quite effective and there are no fools to check it! Everything is changing, science, technology is developing and falling behind in the military sphere, we are just DANGEROUS !!!
              By the way, the notion of a patriot, is that agreeing with everyone and with everything that was announced or appointed ??? I do not agree, I love my homeland, and I will continue to protect it as far as possible.
        2. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 20 January 2018 11: 12 New
          +4
          Quote: PalBor
          Why do they need to fight Luxembourg? Or bomb refugee camps?

          In the days of the USSR, the Belgian Air Force was specially registered, because their planes were carriers of nuclear weapons. There is no doubt that this function will also be transferred to the Belgian F-35 squadron which will be given the upgraded B61-12 LEP bomb.
          1. Thunderbolt
            Thunderbolt 20 January 2018 16: 05 New
            +2
            And here's another application --- the Belgians escort the Tu-160 over the North Sea, and their helmet-mounted system fixes this. Published: Jan 17. 2018 year
        3. Scalpel
          Scalpel 22 January 2018 17: 09 New
          0
          They are in NATO! Fly Estonia to defend, if that.
      4. LSA57
        LSA57 20 January 2018 10: 13 New
        +2
        Quote: tchoni
        now BELGIUM fifth generation fighters will have more than us)))

        just what will they do with them? they won’t even be able to supersonic. only the border also took off.
        According to the Pentagon, the deal between Belgium and the United States, if approved by Congress, will "strengthen the security of the ally’s country" and “Restrain aggression in the region”,

        Well, and what is interesting "achressor" marking time near the borders of Belgium? Isn't that the same ...? lol
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 20 January 2018 10: 59 New
          +8
          Quote: maxim947
          By the way, why Europeans do not take their products, rafals, etc.?

          If you notice, then the Belgians with F-16s transfer to F-35s. It is easier and more understandable for them to work with American companies, especially since they assembled their old F-16s at a Belgian factory. In addition, F-35 is not offered just as a separate product, but as one of the advanced elements of a network-centric warfare system. Rafali is more a thing in itself strong with its individual qualities, but when developing it, the consistency of modern air warfare methods was less taken into account. In this regard, an interesting situation with the German Air Force and France, because Soon, almost Romanians will have more advanced aircraft than the Germans and the French. They seem to be thinking about joint production of a fifth-generation fighter, but this is a huge headstock and the main time (decades). And F-5 here it is --- it can already be felt and even bought.
        2. rocket757
          rocket757 20 January 2018 11: 25 New
          +3
          A pirate raider, democratize someone not very concerned about air defense, come down !!!
          Use, do not mess!
    3. spech
      spech 20 January 2018 16: 45 New
      0
      Quote: ul_vitalii
      Already packs began to sell. belay

      Moreover, the price tag is under 200m of dead condoms, but where are the screamers about "80"?
      1. ZVO
        ZVO 21 January 2018 20: 00 New
        0
        Quote: spech
        Quote: ul_vitalii
        Already packs began to sell. belay

        Moreover, the price tag is under 200m of dead condoms, but where are the screamers about "80"?

        a price tag of two hundred is with pilot training. all stocks of weapons, spare engines, airfield equipment and much more ...
        1. spech
          spech 22 January 2018 01: 50 New
          0
          Quote: ZVO
          Quote: spech
          Quote: ul_vitalii
          Already packs began to sell. belay

          Moreover, the price tag is under 200m of dead condoms, but where are the screamers about "80"?

          a price tag of two hundred is with pilot training. all stocks of weapons, spare engines, airfield equipment and much more ...

          So you saw the contract?
  2. Teberii
    Teberii 20 January 2018 08: 31 New
    +1
    "Restrain aggression in the region" - whom the Belgians will restrain, neighbors, Germany, France and England at the same time Holland.
  3. MadCat
    MadCat 20 January 2018 08: 33 New
    12
    Even Belgium will have more 5 generation aircraft than a state claiming world domination (and this is not Israel! laughing ) we will not point with a finger. recourse
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 20 January 2018 08: 41 New
      +2
      And where did you read that this is the 5th generation? This aircraft does not meet all the requirements of the 5th generation.
      1. LSA57
        LSA57 20 January 2018 10: 17 New
        +2
        Quote: Muvka
        And where did you read that this is the 5th generation?

        especially a stranger
      2. Korax71
        Korax71 20 January 2018 15: 24 New
        +2
        Does su 57 meet all the requirements?
    2. zyzx
      zyzx 20 January 2018 09: 43 New
      +4
      Well, yes, now Belgium will have many aircraft for suckers. And the Americans themselves are going to bomb with helicopters bought in Brazil. For each sortie is worth .....
    3. LSA57
      LSA57 20 January 2018 10: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: MadCat
      Even Belgium will have more 5 generation aircraft

      and when did they only manage to build it? what shustriki what
    4. Hanokem
      Hanokem 20 January 2018 13: 47 New
      +3
      For Israel, do not worry so. Already ordered 50 F-35A (the first 9 are already in operational readiness). In the near future, a decision will be made on the purchase of another 25 F-35s (fluctuate between version A or B)
      1. Vkd dvk
        Vkd dvk 21 January 2018 01: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: Hanokem
        For Israel, do not worry so. Already ordered 50 F-35A (the first 9 are already in operational readiness). In the near future, a decision will be made on the purchase of another 25 F-35s (fluctuate between version A or B)

        Do not hammer nails with a cell phone? Hammer in. Zusulov local invisibly hammering? Right on the camel parking. And this is even more stupid than with nails so wasteful ... I do not recognize the nation.
      2. synthwave
        synthwave 21 January 2018 17: 10 New
        0
        We are not worried. We are mocking you, bobiks. Cool Americans have divorced you. I wish you more of these "quality fighters" wink .
  4. Simon
    Simon 20 January 2018 08: 37 New
    +2
    Wow! Under the guise of a Russian threat, the Americans are already starting to shed their weapons on everyone. Cool apparently Belgium intimidated!
    1. LSA57
      LSA57 20 January 2018 10: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: Simon
      Wow! Under the guise of a Russian threat, the Americans are already starting to shed their weapons on everyone.

      apparently need to denyuzhku faithful vassals breed
      Cool apparently Belgium intimidated!

      no need to intimidate them. they are striped and peep in the ro, and they lick the anus
  5. Simon
    Simon 20 January 2018 08: 43 New
    +3
    Quote: ul_vitalii
    Already packs began to sell. belay

    And that, according to the emotion of Trump, the United States began to earn money for fear of the Russian threat, which they themselves are spreading. yes
  6. Dormidont
    Dormidont 20 January 2018 08: 50 New
    +1
    Did you want to fight with France?
  7. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 20 January 2018 09: 18 New
    +2
    I won’t be surprised if one (decommissioned) Ukraine vtyuhayut .. ha ha ha Here the races will begin!
  8. Herculesic
    Herculesic 20 January 2018 09: 22 New
    +4
    Now, when Trump will sell his army 3000 such aircraft, or even more, then it will be possible to say that the biggest scam in the history of mankind has been a success! wassat
    1. Kent0001
      Kent0001 20 January 2018 09: 41 New
      +9
      The biggest scam in the world is the withdrawal of money in furious amounts abroad by our officials and aligarchs. And everything is fine.
  9. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 20 January 2018 09: 27 New
    +6
    Trump got another multibillion-dollar contract for his industry - and we have all the patriots waiting for his impeachment, but they talk about what kind of a loser he is, not even a couple of our GDP
  10. Kent0001
    Kent0001 20 January 2018 09: 39 New
    +2
    Even Belgium will have a 5th generation aircraft. Well done shtatovtsy. With all due respect to our defense industry, our technological lag is very noticeable (very noticeable in terms of time). So in everything. Why don't we do technical espionage like China for example?
    1. LSA57
      LSA57 20 January 2018 10: 30 New
      +3
      Quote: Kent0001
      Well done shtatovtsy.

      so much mind does not need his vassal, anything to draw in. during the USSR, the entire Warsaw Pact was armed with our weapons.
      Why don't we do technical espionage like China for example?

      That's right, we will make bad copies, and as you know, even the best copy is worse than the worst original, but close our KBs. they will not be needed
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 20 January 2018 12: 59 New
        +3
        We have a defense concept, everything and everything is imprisoned for it !!! Take from someone a very advanced sales and break what is and works ???? Firstly, this is the way to stay with nothing, secondly, our system WORKS and no one risks checking, touching on weak !!! Flight of Rust - this is nonsense performers and nonsense of the leadership of that period !!! Now they will wet without talking!
        It is logical to develop, modernize your own, and not shy away from one good to another better ... you will be left with nothing !!!
  11. Muvka
    Muvka 20 January 2018 09: 42 New
    +2
    I’m off topic, tell me, does Belgium or Norway have AWACS aircraft? Without them, the invisibility of these aircraft is a myth. Because, as without the illumination of the target by the AWACS, they will have to turn on their AFAR themselves, which means that there will be no invisibility in principle. Why do they need such airplanes?
    1. Filxnumx
      Filxnumx 20 January 2018 10: 35 New
      +2
      correctly!
      "Why do they need such airplanes?"
      A "Schaub Bulo"! And God forbid any stray Rafal or Typhoon. After 20 years, only military historians will remember the military aviation of Germany, France and England, and the remaining aircraft workshops will be engaged in screwdriver assembly of the striped “wunderwafers”
    2. iwind
      iwind 20 January 2018 10: 40 New
      +6
      Quote: Muvka
      I’m off topic, tell me, does Belgium or Norway have AWACS aircraft? Without them, the invisibility of these aircraft is a myth. Because, as without the illumination of the target by the AWACS, they will have to turn on their AFAR themselves, which means that there will be no invisibility in principle. Why do they need such airplanes?

      And what is it all of a sudden? At best, getting directions, but it’s extremely foolish to launch a missile on a stealth plane /
      And each F-35 is an AWACS aircraft for others, ie one of the links will give target designation to other EWs.
      It can work with all the targeting platform on them
      Meanwhile, in the next test in September 2016, the standard F-35B of the US Marine Corps spotted an aerodynamic target beyond the horizon at the White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico and ensured the transfer of the control system via the ground repeater Aegis coastal complex (USS Desert Ship LLS-1), which received data and successfully hit the SM-6 Standard missile target.

      in 2014, when Northrop Grumman demonstrated an almost mature technology for integrating the F-35 into one of the possible configurations of a promising missile defense missile defense system, the aircraft tracked the launch of the BR from the Pacific Missile Range Facility Barkings Sands in Hawaii , Hawaii) and via a closed satellite channel in real time transmitted data on the flight of the rocket to the landfill on the west coast of the United States.
      1. Muvka
        Muvka 20 January 2018 11: 31 New
        0
        He pulls weakly on the AWAC. His radar is not very long-range. And yes, it will be quickly destroyed.
        1. iwind
          iwind 20 January 2018 16: 42 New
          0
          Quote: Muvka
          He pulls weakly on the AWAC. His radar is not very long-range. And yes, it will be quickly destroyed.

          Very pulling.
          Eh ... if only. It will be very difficult to destroy them, they will be +120 already this year.
          1. synthwave
            synthwave 20 January 2018 22: 31 New
            0
            Very pulling.
            Do you have the characteristics of its radar in terms of detection range? No. Then what are your statements based on? On your "feelings" and faith in American power?
            1. MadCat
              MadCat 21 January 2018 04: 22 New
              +1
              Quote: synthwave
              Very pulling.
              Do you have the characteristics of its radar in terms of detection range? No. Then what are your statements based on? On your "feelings" and faith in American power?

              In general, there are plenty of reasons, this is both the power consumption and the manufacturing process of AFAR elements ...
              1. synthwave
                synthwave 21 January 2018 05: 21 New
                0
                AFAR is a technology that does not guarantee mega performance. And even more so, replacing AWACS aircraft. And this technology is far from alternative and ideal. On our Su-30 and Su-35 are non-acidic such PFARs, which claimed good such characteristics for the same detection range. What may the 35th radar is not clear. Popokoids from Lokhid promise imba, but there is no guarantee that his AFAR is better than the same eurofighter with CAESAR AFAR.
                1. MadCat
                  MadCat 21 January 2018 06: 06 New
                  +1
                  Quote: synthwave
                  AFAR is a technology that does not guarantee mega performance. And even more so, replacing AWACS aircraft. And this technology is far from alternative and ideal.

                  again, instead of those characteristics, you give out slogans ... Talking in this case does not make sense.
                  1. synthwave
                    synthwave 21 January 2018 06: 30 New
                    +1
                    PFAR IRBIS on Su 35 and PFAR protein on Su 30, read there are data on the Internet. Can you use Google, or teach? According to the praised AFAR F35 there is NOTHING. So yes, any fan of the seventies speaking about the coolness of the BREO F35 does not lead a discussion, but a repetition of the advertising brochures of the Lockheed. Or maybe you have info? No, of course, where. Well, then why is your "smart" passage about AFAR? Are you aware that AFARS are on flu, rafal, eurofighter, etc. Or do you think this is some kind of unique American technology imba? What is the relationship between how the radar is built and its characteristics? Moreover, the technology is not unique. Yes, and PFARs have not outlived themselves, but no one says that the Su-35, even with its horse detection range, will replace the AWACS. So what do you want to argue with then?
      2. synthwave
        synthwave 20 January 2018 22: 34 New
        0
        Meanwhile, in the next test in September 2016, the standard US Marine Corps F-35B spotted an aerodynamic target beyond the horizon at the training ground ....
        Blah, blah, blah .. What does it mean "beyond the horizon"? What detection range? What is the EPR of the target?
        The number is zero. Some advertising brochures and faith in the sanctity of pilgrims from Lokhida.
        1. Vkd dvk
          Vkd dvk 21 January 2018 00: 58 New
          +2
          Quote: synthwave
          Meanwhile, in the next test in September 2016, the standard US Marine Corps F-35B spotted an aerodynamic target beyond the horizon at the training ground ....
          Blah, blah, blah .. What does it mean "beyond the horizon"? What detection range? What is the EPR of the target?
          The number is zero. Some advertising brochures and faith in the sanctity of pilgrims from Lokhida.

          10 kilometers from a height of 8 meters. And up to 100 km from a height of 1 km
          1. synthwave
            synthwave 21 January 2018 01: 12 New
            0
            EPR target what? If the "standard" 3 sq.m. it’s not impressive.
    3. Normal ok
      Normal ok 20 January 2018 11: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: Muvka
      I’m off topic, tell me, does Belgium or Norway have AWACS aircraft? Without them, the invisibility of these aircraft is a myth.

      I don’t know if Belgium has AWACS aircraft, but its NATO allies certainly have them. And the NATO-all are working in close conjunction.
      1. LSA57
        LSA57 20 January 2018 13: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: Normal ok
        And NATO-all are working in close conjunction

        yes, until they contact, the war will end. recognize it themselves
      2. Muvka
        Muvka 20 January 2018 13: 27 New
        0
        You can find out in what conflict they acted like that?
        1. ventel
          ventel 20 January 2018 16: 29 New
          0
          In the Yugoslav conflict.
    4. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 20 January 2018 20: 31 New
      +1
      On the territory of Norway - the NATO AWACS command base.
      The Belgians also work with NATO AWACS.
      Although the F-35 just do not need DRLO. They are connected in a common network, divided into groups of attackers and aiming at targets, and highlight each other. Such exercises have already been held in the United States.
      1. synthwave
        synthwave 21 January 2018 00: 09 New
        +1
        There F22 shone for Kalichi by 35. Here are the teachings there. Which already suggests the idea of ​​the 35 radar and how it “does not need” AWACS.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 21 January 2018 12: 05 New
          0
          "What is already suggesting the radar 35" ////

          Which again suggests (even vividly testifies) about your ignorance.
          The F-35 radar is more powerful and modern than the F-35 radar. He is its continuation and development.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. synthwave
            synthwave 22 January 2018 20: 38 New
            0
            Wrote a comment and it was deleted ... And there is only a conclusion about the "specialism" above, which speaks and confuses the names of aircraft
            The F-35 radar is more powerful and modern than the F-35 radar.
            and at the same time he talks about alien ignorance. Modera, here that the Jewish lobby and the ZOG do not sleep laughing ?
          3. Vkd dvk
            Vkd dvk 22 January 2018 20: 40 New
            +1
            Quote: voyaka uh
            "What is already suggesting the radar 35" ////

            Which again suggests (even vividly testifies) about your ignorance.
            The F-35 radar is more powerful and modern than the F-35 radar. He is its continuation and development.

            Wit you do not occupy. Bravo!
      2. Vkd dvk
        Vkd dvk 21 January 2018 00: 52 New
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        On the territory of Norway - the NATO AWACS command base.
        The Belgians also work with NATO AWACS.
        Although the F-35 just do not need DRLO. They are connected in a common network, divided into groups of attackers and aiming at targets, and highlight each other. Such exercises have already been held in the United States.

        We heard about these charms. Only if they begin to bomb at home will the network be obtained. If they fly in our direction, there will be nowhere to land. They have problems with catapults. They will beat everyone, heartfelt.
      3. Vkd dvk
        Vkd dvk 22 January 2018 20: 42 New
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        On the territory of Norway - the NATO AWACS command base.
        The Belgians also work with NATO AWACS.
        Although the F-35 just do not need DRLO. They are connected in a common network, divided into groups of attackers and aiming at targets, and highlight each other. Such exercises have already been held in the United States.

        The backlight reveals the entire working network. So it would be with AWACS from around the corner, out of habit .....
    5. ZVO
      ZVO 21 January 2018 20: 09 New
      0
      Quote: Muvka
      I’m off topic, tell me, does Belgium or Norway have AWACS aircraft?


      And didn’t you try and turn on the mind?

      Belgium is a NATO bloc country.
      In the spring of 2015, NATO had 18 of its own, European, E-3A AWACS aircraft.
      Britons with francs also have 10pcs.
      Plus all sorts of compact type Golfrimov and Hokaev ...
      so more than enough
  12. The Siberian barber
    The Siberian barber 20 January 2018 10: 01 New
    +1
    The first rule of marketing: come up with a "problem" and sell a way to solve it))
    Interesting: what will the Belgians pay?) In kind ?? And why, the flimsy Belgium, located in the center of Europe, such a number of these Pepelats?)
    1. shura7782
      shura7782 20 January 2018 11: 45 New
      +3
      In general, this is not a problem for them. They are trying to create a problem on the forum. Belgium can afford a lot of things and this will not affect people's living standards. In this small country, everything has been stable for a long time. T.ch. worthy purchase, did not pass.
      1. The Siberian barber
        The Siberian barber 20 January 2018 12: 04 New
        +2
        Regarding the standard of living in Belgium, you can not say anything to me) he is really very high. I have been there, and more than once. But 6,5 billion is a considerable amount, nevertheless)) ... and the main question is, why, how many?)) If you divide it into three with suites and the Dutch, wherever it goes ..
        A country the size of a blanket ...))
        1. shura7782
          shura7782 20 January 2018 12: 31 New
          +1
          The figure is really not small. By our standards, a whole regiment. Apparently they will be based at different airfields. To cover this direction from us, this figure is required for NATO headquarters. The range of their aircraft may go beyond borders.
          1. The Siberian barber
            The Siberian barber 20 January 2018 14: 05 New
            +1
            Duc, I'm talking about something: "dad" said it is necessary, they answered "is"!))
  13. LSA57
    LSA57 20 January 2018 10: 23 New
    +1
    Quote: Kent0001
    The biggest scam in the world is the withdrawal of money in furious amounts abroad by our officials and aligarchs. And everything is fine.

    Well, any bast in a row. soon you will comment on the weather forecast with political overtones in peak of Putin
  14. zzdimk
    zzdimk 20 January 2018 10: 30 New
    0
    34 analogs of an-2 with plastic, instead of plywood. Good deal.
  15. rocket757
    rocket757 20 January 2018 12: 43 New
    +2
    We’ll chat, criticize or praise, it doesn’t matter. The air defense - missile defense system will be modernized in the geyrop, the aircraft seems to fit into it, how, why and for how much, it's not our business. The system is being upgraded.
    The warrior, the authorities have their own interest, for the layman one thing is important, a sense of security, he pays for it and has the right to demand it.
    What is important for us is to work, develop the protection potential and be able to give a SCARY response to anyone who asks for it !!!
    There is no way for us to limit the ambitions of a democratic gang towards the whole world. We are weak, our allies ??? very weak. Twitch, swing rights or help everyone defend themselves ???? Very doubtful and very expensive. Such is the bum!
    However, so far not everything is so "sour"! We can charge an otter to any aggressor ... but still, for now !!!
  16. evil partisan
    evil partisan 20 January 2018 14: 32 New
    +1
    Well, thank God. The poorer this Belgium will be, which already lives beyond its means. yes
  17. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General 20 January 2018 14: 37 New
    0
    Well done Trump, he inhales a plane that looks like a pregnant cuttlefish, completely raw and at the price of gold.
    Trader, immediately obvious)))
  18. Lexus
    Lexus 20 January 2018 15: 44 New
    0
    The US State Department issued a permit for the possible supply of Belgium 34 multi-functional fifth-generation fighter-bombers F-35 totaling $ 6,53 billion,

    $ 192 million apiece. Here you have the promised $ 85 million. Cool!
    1. Korax71
      Korax71 20 January 2018 15: 48 New
      +1
      Carefully see what is included in the price past the aircraft
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 20 January 2018 16: 08 New
        0
        According to the experience of previous contracts, as a rule, weapons are purchased directly with the machine for one or two flights. Are IR Traps Gold?
        1. Korax71
          Korax71 20 January 2018 17: 20 New
          0
          Well, judging by the supply of Apaches to India, the contract included staff training, supply of spare parts and maintenance for the entire service life. So, most likely, here training and maintenance are probably included.
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 20 January 2018 18: 08 New
            0
            Anyway, Americans are not threatened with reproaches for excessive modesty.
        2. iwind
          iwind 20 January 2018 17: 46 New
          0
          Quote: lexus
          According to the experience of previous contracts, as a rule, weapons are purchased directly with the machine for one or two flights. Are IR Traps Gold?


          Everything starts with maintenance and spare parts (personnel from LM) and training my Belgian, ending with my own programming center, integration of weapons and the creation of my own systems for the F-35, a training school with simulators, upgrades to the end of the contract, etc.
          It is more difficult to say what is not in it.
          Also included are Electronic Warfare Systems; Command, Control, Communications, Computer and Intelligence / Communications, Navigational, and Identification (C4I / CNI); Autonomic Logistics Global Support System (ALGS); Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS); Full Mission Trainer; Weapons Employment Capability, and other Subsystems, Features, and Capabilities; F-35 unique infrared flares; Reprogramming center; F-35 Performance Based Logistics; software development / integration; aircraft ferry and tanker support; support equipment; tools and test equipment; communications equipment; spares and repair parts; personnel training and training equipment; publications and technical documents; US Government and contractor engineering and logistics personnel services; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total case value is $ 6.53 billion.
          1. synthwave
            synthwave 21 January 2018 00: 20 New
            +1
            iwind dear man, please tell me how it turns out that in EVERY topic on this shit plane, I see your carcass, with comments in defense of the sixth American aircraft? Do you get paid for it, or you just have an unhealthy love for weapons, which in the event of war will kill you? Well, the plane would be good, so no, trash after all ... Warrior okay, tenacity is clear. The owner gave the plane, and the Jews, even for free, can’t take the garbage. For the chosen ones cannot be mistaken. Are you trying to (and for whom)?
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 21 January 2018 11: 35 New
              +1
              In terms of production technologies and electronics, their fifth-generation aircraft is superior to ours - and in aviation weapons too.
              1. synthwave
                synthwave 21 January 2018 17: 21 New
                +1
                By production technologies
                You know nothing about the production technology of either an American aircraft or a Russian one. Well, if you are not a technologist in Lockheed, or OKB dry. This info is on the bar. So put your fantasies to yourself.
                electronics
                Which one? What is superior. There are numbers, or is that how you "feel."
                aviation weapons too
                It will be a shock for you, but Russian missiles are more long-range:
                https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ракета_«воздух-возд
                wow
                Sorry for ruining your maniamir igspert. Do you want to argue come in with proofs and numbers.
                1. Scalpel
                  Scalpel 22 January 2018 17: 17 New
                  0
                  Flying far and falling are two different things. Most ultra-long-range aircraft missiles are simply barrels of fuel, not capable of hitting a long-range maneuvering target.
                  1. synthwave
                    synthwave 22 January 2018 20: 30 New
                    0
                    If you are hinting at guidance systems and head fillings, etc. give specifics, what’s where, what’s worse and why. With numbers, preferably. I cited the numbers and read stupid buzzwords like "Rusnya is always worse, because the retarded amers are always better" I do not intend to. And range, this is just an indirect confirmation of the high performance of the product. And with a longer-range missile, the chance to hit a maneuverable target is just greater.
            2. Scalpel
              Scalpel 22 January 2018 17: 23 New
              0
              As an option, a person simply loves scientific and technological progress and high technology, and the F-35 aircraft with a bunch of innovative solutions is largely advanced. And just to omit other people's achievements, it is likened to allahbabahs, who think that they solve spells in battle, and not weapons + training.
              1. synthwave
                synthwave 22 January 2018 20: 35 New
                0
                Sorry, are you his lawyer? I didn’t ask you. And your version is doubtful. What, then, does he admire exclusively with the weapons of a probable enemy, since he is such a lover of high technology? We do not have imb? Yes dofiga them. Yes, we have only one stealth so far (half-stealth is true, lol), but to blame only on stealth, ignoring everything else ... well, this is profanity then. It looks more like a bang or 15 rubles each. receives for a post, or simply hates everything Russian (and himself, including, lol).
    2. Vkd dvk
      Vkd dvk 21 January 2018 00: 46 New
      +1
      Quote: lexus
      The US State Department issued a permit for the possible supply of Belgium 34 multi-functional fifth-generation fighter-bombers F-35 totaling $ 6,53 billion,

      $ 192 million apiece. Here you have the promised $ 85 million. Cool!

      85 lemons without an engine.
      And all with the costs of maintenance for the entire service life - 480 lims. Exactly as much is a piece of pure gold of the same mass as an airplane.
      1. MadCat
        MadCat 21 January 2018 04: 29 New
        +1
        Quote: Vkd dvk
        85 lemons without an engine.
        And all with the costs of maintenance for the entire service life - 480 lims. Exactly as much is a piece of pure gold of the same mass as an airplane.

        SU57 will be more expensive since the series is smaller + the national sport - drank. and what?
        1. synthwave
          synthwave 21 January 2018 05: 26 New
          0
          Yes, that. 57 compare with 22 pliz, but not with 35. Explain, I hope it is not necessary why. And that 300 lyam is worth it. So what about drinking drinks and national sports?
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 21 January 2018 11: 37 New
            +1
            And our Drying 57 for the Moscow Region will be under four billion rubles apiece - with such a cost, you can forget about the big series.
            1. synthwave
              synthwave 21 January 2018 17: 04 New
              +1
              Firstly, give the proof about 4 billion. Secondly, these are 66 cartoons of greens which are five times less than the raptor’s price and almost one and a half F35. Thirdly, what series will be there, neither I nor the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, much less you do not know. This will depend on the success of the aircraft. There will be an imba and it will sell well, we can expect the same huge amount as the Su 27-35 series. So save your all-glorious bells and whistles for three years, when he will already be in the unit with a new dviglom.
        2. Vkd dvk
          Vkd dvk 21 January 2018 09: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: MadCat
          Quote: Vkd dvk
          85 lemons without an engine.
          And all with the costs of maintenance for the entire service life - 480 lims. Exactly as much is a piece of pure gold of the same mass as an airplane.

          SU57 will be more expensive since the series is smaller + the national sport - drank. and what?

          Do you work in the planning department of the manufacturer? Where does confidence come from? Different economies of countries, different production technologies, different insurance, tax and other orders. Different salaries, after all. I won’t compare the illegal scam with the legalized scam. The names are different, the meaning is the same. Do not forget, the vaunted competition that cuts the manufacturer’s appetites does not work there (call the competitor airplane F35). The example of dissatisfaction with the price of the new President Trump, knocking it down by 10% only by the click of a finger method, does not prove bad luck? Without a detailed trial? How much more and what is buried there?
  19. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 21 January 2018 00: 44 New
    +2
    Not bad, at 186 lemons per carcass, and without maintenance. Find boobies!
    1. MadCat
      MadCat 21 January 2018 04: 30 New
      0
      Quote: Vkd dvk
      Not bad, at 186 lemons per carcass, and without maintenance. Find boobies!

      But why not dohrenallion at once? Where do these tales come from?
      1. Vkd dvk
        Vkd dvk 21 January 2018 10: 12 New
        +2
        Quote: MadCat
        Quote: Vkd dvk
        Not bad, at 186 lemons per carcass, and without maintenance. Find boobies!

        But why not dohrenallion at once? Where do these tales come from?

        Do you know how to use the Internet? Then you will find 480 million,-expenses for the entire service life + manufacturing.
        You do not say the reason for the discontinuation of F22? The same. Dear to indecent.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 21 January 2018 11: 39 New
          +1
          And recently, F 22 again decided to launch production - with a new avionics.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 21 January 2018 14: 56 New
            +2
            Yes, good.
            The whole civilized democratic world is afraid of terrible Asians, Koreans, Persians and of course bloody mordor !!!!
            In short, the business of amer’s expensive, but the weapon itself went uphill !!!
            Everything is logical, everything is clear, a cool game, and the final goal of babosiki is to the Amersky fat chicks in the first place, the rest is what remains, but not a little !!!
            In short, get hurt ....
          2. synthwave
            synthwave 21 January 2018 17: 07 New
            0
            If they do this (and this is the right, albeit fuckingly expensive solution), this is a non-acidic carnation in the coffin of the Kalich F35 penguin program. It will only be sold to their allies-kukolds. And white people will fly on raptors.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 21 January 2018 18: 46 New
              +3
              We bet that in real life is not proven.
              There was a high-altitude reconnaissance U-2, no one could get it for the time being, that's a fact! We got it, brought down this fact!
              There is a high-speed high-altitude reconnaissance reconnaissance aircraft SR-71, the fastest, the fact ... our Migi shuganuli him, he does not fly anymore, that's a fact!
              Invisible planes - they say different things from different angles ... in short, not proven! But they do not climb into areas where there is real air defense, a fact. Better not let them try to prove, because how do we need it ???
          3. Vkd dvk
            Vkd dvk 21 January 2018 23: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: Vadim237
            And recently, F 22 again decided to launch production - with a new avionics.

            Also pretty good proof of failure with the F35. This one is like an airplane. And it flies well. Not like this stool.