Source: Russia began to deliver C-400 air defense systems to China

Russia began to supply the Triumph C-400 anti-aircraft missile system to China under the 2014 contract of the year, the first regimental kit has already been sent to the customer. The source in the system of military-technical cooperation of Russia informed TASS on Thursday.

The implementation of the contract began, the first regimental kit sent to China

- Said the source agency.

According to the source, the kit includes a command post, a radar station, power and auxiliary equipment, spare parts, tools, accessories and other elements of the system.

The contract signed with the People's Republic of China does not provide for technology transfer or licensed production of these systems.

The agency’s interlocutor also said that Russia last year conducted a training course on the operation of the C-400 group of Chinese military personnel.
The Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation of Russia did not comment on this information.

We remind you that in early December, the head of the Rostec state corporation, Sergey Chemezov, answered the question about starting the implementation of the C-400 supply contract to China: "In the near future. Production is underway, everything is in accordance with the contract."

Comments

[Shura Perm]

But I’m not happy about this news, the Chinese will soon make an analogue with 400 along the way, only cheaper, and they can copy well

[Muvka]

And how, successfully did the S-300 clone sell? Share the data. At the same time, the S-300 was much easier. And here I am glad from this news. This means that there will be additional orders at our military enterprises and not only. It means that people will have salaries, and the state will have taxes.

[donavi49]

It’s not bad at all. Pakistan and Turkmenistan have already bought (Turkmenistan has already become addicted by the way, China has soft power there - it actually made a vassal for itself).
Next in line are a number of East African states.

[Muvka]

All? 2 poor countries? Seriously? And how many divisions did you buy? One by one?

[donavi49]

So he only exported from the end of 2015 .

Let's see who bought the C-300? Excluding resale of Soviet heritage and muddy clones of the chassis from Iran and North Korea, and from the manufacturer.
The richest and most flourishing Venezuela on credit.
Cyprus / Greece
Azerbaijan
Armenia gift
Kazakhstan
the main ally of the Batko of all Belarus
China
Algeria - these were bought a lot and for petrodollars and they will also buy C-400, or rather have already ordered. Bouteflika well done, he understands that in a country rich in deposits, only guaranteed unacceptable damage to democratizers can help.
Vietnam.

This is for 18 + years. The Chinese sold to two countries for 2 years.

[Lord of the Sith]

Yes, they did not sell to two countries, but transferred.

[Muvka]

And about the supply volumes you write? What volumes then?

[Per se.]

Quote: Muvka

Everything? 2 poor countries? Seriously?

Almost from the category, and what the merchant will say ... Where does one mercantile spirit come from, buy and sell this moral? It is much more important that the Chinese military pump up their power on our borders, and with the help of our own cloned samples of missiles, tanks, and airplanes. Even if they are worse than the original, they are much more, and when they are riveted to 10 by 1 is not in our favor, it doesn't matter much how much their tank or missile is weaker than ours, if it is weaker. There is no need here only pink treacle about peace and friendship with our Chinese "brothers", the Chinese do not hide their territorial claims to all neighboring countries, as well as their bet on world hegemony. Coupled with nationalism, in which you can talk about Chinese "national communism", the Chinese "comrades" are no better than the German National Socialists of the Third Reich, with whom we also flirted with being friends against "hat Europe". Here, only, and the Third Reich, and modern China, are necessary to the West first of all, as anti Russia. This is the only reason why the “red” China with the “commi” is not lined up like Russia, from all sides, is not stifled by sanctions, it was generally allowed to take place to the “Chinese miracle”, closing its eyes to the terry piracy and theft of technology. The alarming analogy of the West’s “strange policy” to reinforce Nazi Germany, and the “strange war”, in anticipation of Hitler’s reversal against the USSR. China is a potential aggressor, and here it is necessary to at least take into account the laws of geopolitics, the lessons of history, so as not to lay a mine for your country, such haggling short-sightedness in politics. There is no need to deliberately quarrel, but stupidity is not necessary either.

[Andrey K]

The Chinese clone of our S-300 - Hongqi-9 (HQ-9) is selling so well that so far only Uzbekistan has managed to pair it (again, it has not been confirmed). Persuaded Turkey, but she did not even buy cheapness. In general, while with the "clones" of S-300, our strategic partners are not very good.
But for themselves, they of course riveted these "crafts", with a characteristic scope:

[donavi49]

Pakistan. Tajikistan. Given that the export permit was obtained at the end of the 2015 year. Packs by the way also HQ-16В (Calm1 in the land version with Talesovsky radar) sold by weight

[Piramidon]

Quote: Andrey K

But for themselves, they of course riveted these "crafts", with a characteristic scope:

But how it looks in parades!

[Bypassed]

Chassis - Belarusian. They spread the Belarusians like suckers - they built a joint venture for the production of tractors for missiles, and the Chinese - let's goodbye

[Don]

Quote: Muvka

At the same time, C-300 was much easier

Seriously? An order of magnitude? And why not ten orders of magnitude then, if only since it’s so different? C-400 is the renamed C-300 PMU3. Here C-500 should significantly differ from the C-300 family both in terms of performance and layout, unless of course it is finished during our lifetimes.

[Lenivets2]

Seriously?
Is the S-400 the renamed S-300 PMU3?
Are you a developer or chief engineer for ZRTO?
Where does this “unshakable” confidence come from?
They differ in terms of components at least for a generation, and I'm not even talking about performance characteristics and operation algorithms.
Some kind of "specialist" plunged into the Internet with his insanity, people with a smart look picked up and carries the "good and eternal" in all forums.

[Don]

Seriously? Wikipedia prompted? Ask your wife, come know more

[Lenivets2]

"Wikipedia prompted?"
No, exclusively for work.
I don’t need Wikipedia on the S-400.
"Ask your wife, go and know more of yours"
It was nice to talk with an intelligent and savvy interlocutor.

[Lenivets2]

"Ask your wife, go and know more of yours"
I decided to clarify.
Are you so low on modern women that the question for them (and their knowledge of the topic) is considered by you the highest degree of insult?
You don’t know that in Almaz women are working as development engineers of individual blocks of the S-400 complex and they really can know more?

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Lenivets2

You are so low opinion ...

Spit. Man stupidly trolls, and is no longer capable of anything.

[Hiw]

I would not be happy about taxes, the profits of arms corporations belong to private individuals, they are withdrawn from the country to offshore companies, taxes are deducted only from the salaries of workers - income, pension, etc. - a minuscule of total group revenues. And the salaries at these enterprises of ordinary hard workers are far from sky-high.

[aikon1974]

But I’m not happy, living 60 km from the border with our "allies" and knowing their cunning essence. These comrades serve your right hand, and a knife or a brick in the left behind you.

[fridge]

Throw everything from China Strong China and Strong Russia out of the house, this is the guarantor
Heartland order. Impudent Saxons here for a long time spoil.

[Sands Careers General]

Most likely, all systems are sealed, you will not disassemble and do not look.
If China needs its new air defense system, it will have to be developed from scratch.

[HEATHER]

The contract provides neither technology transfer nor licensed production of these systems. A full copy is just around the corner.

[bouncyhunter]

Dimych, hello and with the exit from the bath!

Quote: VERESK

A full copy is just around the corner.

Oh, not a fact ...

[HEATHER]

Great, Pasha! How to know. Although, it’s almost unlikely. Otherwise, they would have shoved the S-300 analogue to everyone.

[bouncyhunter]

Absolutely right! And the S-400 will be more complicated than the S-300.

[Muvka]

There is not even a full copy of the S-300.

[Berkut24]

A full copy is just around the corner.

1) A full copy is not possible, and it will require not only time for documentation, but also the organization of production.
2) What the Chinese received is not what the Russian Defense Ministry receives. Those. ersatz for third countries.
3) The Chinese launched the production of a sub-copy of the S-300 ersatz right up to the start of Russian sales of the S-400 ersatz. Those. their ersatz S-400 ersatz will appear at the start of Russian sales of the S-500 ersatz.
4) The point is not entirely in technology, but in the ideology of the weapon system. By copying the S-400, they will copy the ideology of 20 years ago. And the world has already changed, like threats.

[bk316]

The Chinese have launched the production of a non-copy of the S-300 ersatz right before the start of Russian sales of the S-400 ersatz. Those. their ersatz S-400 ersatz will appear at the start of Russian sales of the S-500 ersatz.

This is 5 !!!

[Gardamir]

The country for sale is called. Can immediately aircraft carriers for America begin to build? Arming neighbors, what can you think of more stupid?

[Muvka]

So pay for the rearmament of the country from your wallet. And then we will not sell weapons. Do you have enough money?

[Gardamir]

Do you have enough money?

And how much money did Putin and Nabiullina transfer to America?

[Muvka]

How many? And they donated? Or is it still our money?

[Gardamir]

Or is it still our money?

Firstly, Putin’s partners may not return. secondly, what do our money do abroad? Maybe they will bring more benefits in the homeland?

[Muvka]

In fact, they earn interest. And do not just lie.

[Alone]

They earn scanty interest, and work for “partners.” Not at all good, how did Kazakhstan squeeze Kazakhstan with their assets in Merikossia?

[Gardamir]

interest earn.

That is the whole difference between us. You are a consumer consumerist. I am for a strong state. And in a strong state, factories, factories should work (as you yourself said jobs). Money should go to schools, to medicine

[bk316]

Called country for sale

You are about the USA. They are in the first place in the sale of weapons.
Tell me where to buy a piece?

[Alexey-74]

All copies that China has created and will create will be much worse than the original .....

[donavi49]

But the Chinese have the best Beech in the world for example. They bought (paid for development) Calm-1. Along the way, with the naval complex for the 054A frigates - they made a land version using a new missile with a vertical launch.
Then they made friends with the new radar complex (which was done together with Thales). Then they changed fuel and did some rocket work.

In any case, they have up to the Buk-M3 (which is in an incomprehensible state) the best Buk, with the most advanced missile and radar. Moreover - they even already sell it, in the same Pakistan. Plus a semi-secret (it’s difficult to keep secret today) delivery of several complexes in Bangladesh. And other vassals are already making applications.

[donavi49]

Not. This Calm-1 is simply in land form. Buka-M3 will also have 6 missiles. Range to 40km.

[Muvka]

I was not interested in this Chinese technique, can you give the parameters by which it is better than beech?

[Town Hall]

Quote: donavi49

Then they made friends with the new radar complex (which was done together with Thales).

Are you sure what happened with Thales? ... already lifted the embargo on military technology against China?

[Egorovich]

The fact that the Chinese will make a copy, another grandmother said in two. With an aircraft engine, they are still kicking, and things are still there. And in Russia, besides, the S-500 will appear soon.

[Mountain shooter]

They will not copy the 400th. This is far from easy. There, engines for the Su-27 can still not be established, even under a license.

[genpolitproject]

They have already grabbed us from half of Siberia from the filing of Putin, and to them he isho and the latest weapons ??? Found the "friend" of the Hytromord ...

[marlin1203]

Where is it for example?

[Gavril]

But such arguments in defense of the sale as “the aircraft engine could not copy” and “truncated characteristics”, you can bring to grandmothers. At such a pace, we will someday recall the Americans, comparing them with the Chinese of that time.

[Lenivets2]

That is, all your arguments are: "can you bring grandmothers"?
Well then apply this principle to yourself.
Urgently look for a grandmother.

[Gavril]

And your arguments are: "The Chinese do not know how"?
Are you out of your mind, good lord? We are already lagging behind China in everything, even in terms of average salary, and with our phrase “Urgently look for my grandmother”, you indulge this. Have you had them? Do you know how they work? Can you also? They are beginning a golden age, and we in fact live in a permanent crisis, which does not end in any way.

[Lenivets2]

"And your arguments are:" the Chinese do not know how? "
Are you out of your mind, good lord? "

It is not a matter of skill, but of the impossibility to copy some things without knowing the technology, without having detailed documentation and software.

[Stepych]

Whatever they write, China does not know and does not know the secret to the production of alloy technology.
So the resource of rocket engines is worse than the original.
How much did they copy and rivet there? A lot of? And how much are these planes and missiles?

The plus is that we get money, points in politics, and in future relationships.

[donavi49]

Lol The resource of metal and ceramic elements of a rocket engine is seconds.
At least from the USA, at least from the Russian Federation, at least from some Somalia .

It is decided by electronics (both in the rocket and in the whole complex), radar (ARGSN / PARGSN) and chemistry (fuel).

[Viktor.12.71]

Quote: Stepych

How much did they copy and rivet there? A lot of? And how much are these planes and missiles?

Well, for example, take the space industry. In 2017, they launched 17 carriers, and only 1 failed start. This suggests that the Chinese are closing the gap in all areas with monstrous jerks. After 10-20 years it will not be a laughing matter, even to Americans.

[Dead duck]

According to the source, the kit includes a command post, a radar station, power and auxiliary equipment, spare parts, tools, accessories and other elements of the system.

then the missiles will not be delivered ... and so it will

[Old26]

Quote: Muvka

And how, successfully did the S-300 clone sell? Share the data. At the same time, the S-300 was much easier. And here I am glad from this news. This means that there will be additional orders at our military enterprises and not only. It means that people will have salaries, and the state will have taxes.

I will not argue what is simpler and what is not, but it is sold approximately the same. It is for sale, and not what remains in the countries of the internal affairs bodies and the former republics of the USSR. As far as can be judged, the S-300 complex in various modifications was purchased
1. Vietnam
2. Venezuela
3. Cyprus
4. Some customized version was sold to the Republic of Korea.

Now the list of buyers of the HQ-9 complex with modifications
1. Uzbekistan
2. Turkmenistan
3. Afghanistan
4. Pakistan

This is what I remembered offhand. If you delve into the directories - there will be more accurate information.
Now, regarding the supply of S-400 to China. I have some ambivalence about this. On the one hand, it seems to be good that our complex is successful and goes abroad, on the other. I completely share the opinion Shura Perm that the Chinese will quickly create a S-400 clone. Maybe with slightly worse performance characteristics (you can compare our S-300 and i-HQ-9), but it’s cheaper. And in the world they do not always take what is better and more expensive. There is an option when they can take a little worse, but cheaper. Remember how a competition for SAMs in Turkey took place several years ago. The competition was won by the FD-2000 (aka HQ-9), and by no means our S-300, although ours was superior in Chinese performance characteristics. Yes, then they (the Turks) refused, but the fact remains

[Muvka]

Pakistan did not buy HQ-9, do not lie. But the Iranians didn’t buy S-300 from us? About Afghanistan, my search also does not provide any links to any news. Only Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. There is also news about deliveries to Algeria S-300.

[Hiw]

Quote: Muvka

So pay for the rearmament of the country from your wallet. And then we will not sell weapons. Do you have enough money?

And they would pay from their wallet, which is the state budget if military corporations would not belong to private individuals and would not withdraw profits offshore, even if they would pay

[lazy]

one hope while the Chinese learn to clone s-400, ours will bring to mind s-500

[Old26]

Quote: Muvka

Pakistan did not buy HQ-9, do not lie. But the Iranians didn’t buy S-300 from us? About Afghanistan, my search also does not provide any links to any news. Only Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. There is also news about deliveries to Algeria S-300.

I wrote offhand. In Pakistan, there was information in 2016 about the decision of Pakistan to acquire HQ-9B and HQ-9C complexes and also the EMNIP HQ-12 complex as far as the contract is completed (or not executed) you need to look at the sources. And about Afghanistan, I messed up, I admit. As for Algeria, Iran - yes, they are also buyers of our S-300. But by and large, as someone here wrote, we sold to several countries (2-3 more than the Chinese) in a few times more time. Moreover, the Chinese have now made a bet including and to sell their air defense systems, and you have a huge selection of them. And cheaper than ours

[Muvka]

Between there was information about intentions and real purchases - a huge chasm. If we measure our intentions, then we will win from the whole world in the sale of weapons.
About 2-3 more, also unlikely. And you need to consider sales. Uzbekistan may have 1 PU acquired (exaggerated) for a test. Nowhere is it written about volumes. So they delivered these complexes to 2 countries, it is not known in what quantity and it is not known whether they paid for the loan. How can such sales be said to be at least some S-300 competitor? At the same time, please note that it is cheaper than the S-300.

[SERVER]

You can copy everything. But the most important thing is the system operation algorithm. It is impossible to copy. And without it, the installation is just a pile of metal ...

[Old26]

Quote: Muvka

Between there was information about intentions and real purchases - a huge chasm. If we measure our intentions, then we will win from the whole world in the sale of weapons.
About 2-3 more, also unlikely. And you need to consider sales. Uzbekistan may have 1 PU acquired (exaggerated) for a test. Nowhere is it written about volumes. So they delivered these complexes to 2 countries, it is not known in what quantity and it is not known whether they paid for the loan. How can such sales be said to be at least some S-300 competitor? At the same time, please note that it is cheaper than the S-300.

Kamrad! I understand perfectly well that intentions are one thing, and real procurement is another. Like winning a tender is one thing, and deliveries are another. The truth is that in all our and Chinese deliveries there is, let’s say one thing, that our media don’t talk about and we can’t always equate this to “intentions” or “purchases”. The thing is that all these deliveries come a few years after the conclusion of the contracts. Take the same China. We supplied them with 1 regiment set of S-400 air defense systems for January 2018, although the supply contract was concluded in 2014. The same is with Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Deliveries when were the Chinese complexes in these countries? And the contract was concluded in 2013. I will not insist, but it is quite possible that the info on Pakistan that I met has nothing other than information specifically under the Pakistani contractnot about supplies themselves

Yes, of course, volumes must be taken into account. But most likely (I can’t guarantee it, but something tells me) that the minimum quantity is what is a separate military unit. For S-300 / S-400 type air defense systems, the minimum is a complex within the division (EMNIP). Of course, it’s stupid to think that the Chinese will acquire a division. There most likely we are talking about several regiment sets. But Algeria could get a regiment kit. Honestly, they don’t really need more there.

By volume, information passes, but not always. In particular, the contract “Military Balance” (it’s free) may contain data on the contract, or it may not. As far as I remember, the latter had information that, according to the contract concluded between the Chinese and Myanmar, China should deliver them EMNIP 15 launch complexes HQ-12 / KS-1. But the same contract with Uzbekistan is not indicated. As they told me, the volumes are very well written in the SIPRI reference books, but they are either paid, or it is necessary to register in them. I do not remember exactly. Therefore, this source has not yet reached

Your last phrase

How can such sales be said to be at least some S-300 competitor?

You know, comrade. A huge number of readers that so-called "experts" is deeply do not care. They usually focus on the number of countries, rather than on units of delivery. We can supply, for example, a certain ABC-2000 system in one country in the amount of 30 pieces, and our competitor can put a clone of our system, the CBA-2000 system in 10 countries, in the amount of 3 units each. And they will say that he is a competitor to us, based on the number of countries, and not the number of sets. Of course, everything is monitored in serious offices and such a freebie will not work there, but now we are not talking about serious offices, namely the bulk of the readers (consumers) of this information.
And whether we want it or not, but China with a quiet glanders displaces us slowly from the arms market. Using in particular the cost factor. It is perfectly clear to everyone that the Chinese clones of SU-27/30 type machines are not suitable for originals in soles. But they are cheaper and the Chinese are trying to shove them into the coming countries. They now have a very capacious market - Africa. Africa, at one time littered with Soviet weapons. Then we supplied weapons to everyone who declared that he was following the socialist path of development. Now we will not supply them with these weapons, if only because they cannot pay for them. And the Chinese are likely to fit.
Or take the same Saudi Arabia. The Chinese in the late 80s supplied them with medium-range missiles of the DF-3A type in quantity - and HZ in what quantity. Some sources talk about 50-60 missiles and 15 launchers, while others say about 10-12 silo launchers and 120 missiles. There is no clear answer. This is not specifically about quantity. At the beginning of the last decade, the Chinese made a fuss and began supplying new medium-range missiles DF-21 (already mobile) to replace these obsolete DF-3A. The Saudis wanted to purchase the ISkander-E complex from us. And while we “think” and “Pull the cat by the tail” - a similar contract was drawn up, but with neighboring Ukraine. She, like us, is part of the Wassenaar Accords on a missile technology control regime.
And I will not be particularly surprised if it turns out over time that the ears of the Chinese loom over this contract. As far as it is clear from the open materials under this contract, the production of Grom-2 will be localized in Saudi Arabia. Officially, the Saudis have bought and will produce a complex that is subject to the terms of the MTCR. But in reality? What prevents the same Chinese, who there already have enough "their own" to modernize the plant and start producing their products on it. Which do not fall under the regime of CMT. And the Saudis will be fine (receive more long-range missiles), and the Chinese.
This is, of course, a thought aloud regarding the expansion of the Chinese in the arms market