Military Review

Lavr Kornilov: General Nobody

173



Many compatriots will remember the centenary of the Great October Revolution with the pseudo-historical serials “Trotsky” and “The Demon of the Revolution”, which even more mythologized the ideas of fateful events for the country and the world that were already vague in the mass consciousness. The revolution had many interrelated reasons - both objective and subjective. The second category, without a doubt, includes the personality factor.

Lavr Georgievich Kornilov stayed in stories controversial figure. The author of one of the most complete biographies of General Vasily Tsvetkov writes: “For some, Kornilov is an experienced military, an outstanding diplomat, a sincere patriot. For others, a primitive politician, an extremely ambitious and rude general. ” Of course, in the article one can touch only some milestones of the outstanding person’s biography. I will try to examine them in the context of an epoch or, as Lev Gumilyov wrote, from a bird's-eye view.

Kornilov was born in the same year as Lenin - in 1870. His homeland is the village of Karakalinskaya, father Georgiy Nikolayevich is a Siberian Cossack, without cronyism and protection, who by his own work rose to the cornet. Despite the officer's rank, he plowed, sowed, cleaned. Laurel since childhood stretched to knowledge. According to his other biographer, historian Yevgeny Komarovsky, the future commander “reads books even by the light of a fire when he guards horses in the night,” which was not just entertainment intended to brighten the vigil under a starry Siberian sky. Kornilov was preparing to enter the elite 1 Imperial Siberian Alexander I Cadet Corps. And as subsequent events showed, I learned brilliantly - I graduated from it according to the first category.

The next step Kornilov is very ambitious - Petersburg. Enrolling in the Mikhailovsky Artillery School, the young man showed not only an innate fighting character, but also an obstinate disposition. “The head of the school, General Chernyavsky,” Komarovsky notes, “helps Lavr Kornilov to graduate from the school, standing up for his defense when the young cynx is threatened with dismissal for an independent temper and a sharp tongue.”

It is noteworthy that another outstanding Russian general — the son of a serf peasant who had risen to a Major’s rank, Anton Denikin (“Not a Drop of the Leader”) nearly paid for his character with a “career” for his character. After completing his studies at the Nikolaev Academy, he was not counted among the General Staff precisely “for character”. Such was the decision of the military minister, Adjutant General Alexei Kuropatkin, notorious for the Russian-Japanese war. True, after the personal letter of the then captain Denikin, the minister figured out the situation and Anton Ivanovich was counted among the General Staff.

But for us something else is important - the very possibility of studying for the modest son of a cornet in a prestigious military school shows that in the Russian Empire it’s somehow with a slip, but social elevators worked. If, even after the abolition of serfdom, the powers that be would have deigned to introduce universal primary education ...

Expert of Turkestan

After graduating from college with a gold medal, Kornilov received the right to choose a regiment for further service. And he went to the Turkestan artillery brigade stationed in Central Asia. Needless to say, the young officer’s choice of a far from prestigious, recently conquered region surprised his classmates. What considerations drove Kornilov? It is clear that no career. The fact is that in Kornilov, as well as in Kolchak, one should see not only a military man, but also a scientist.

In Central Asia, he becomes acquainted with local customs, with language and succeeds in this field, having learned Farsi. But not only does he find time for him - he is intensively engaged in preparing for admission to the Nikolaev Academy of the General Staff. He passed the exam, studied brilliantly, as evidenced by the silver medal.

To many colleagues, Laurus probably thought then: now he will settle in the capital, somewhere at headquarters. But Kornilov was surprised again, going to the East he was familiar with, not only as a scientist, but as a scout. “Understanding the importance of the Central Asian direction for the Russian Empire, I thought that service here would provide new opportunities for studying the strategic deployment of Russian troops in the event of a possible conflict with Persia, Afghanistan or even Great Britain” (Tsvetkov).

Let me digress from the biography of Kornilov and, in order to fully appreciate his activities, touch upon the military-political situation that developed at the end of the 19th century in Central Asia, marked by tough rivalry between the Russian and British empires - pillars, as Alexander Dugin likes to write, tellurocracy and thalassocracy. Between them there was a real cold war in the region, at times almost growing into a hot one — the only armed conflict during the rule of Alexander III was provoked by the British at Kushka in 1885. They were extremely concerned about the movement of Russia to the south - towards the borders of British India. At the end of the century, despite some rapprochement between St. Petersburg and London, caused by the growing German threat (although more so for England than for Russia), the situation in Central Asia remained tense. And in the 1898, Kornilov, in Termez. His boss is a well-known orientalist, General of Infantry, Mikhail Ionov. The task is the study of Afghanistan, more precisely, of the newly built Deidadi fortress. I emphasize: Kornilov volunteered, knowing full well that “all attempts by scouts to penetrate the fortress ended sadly — they were impaled” (Komarovsky).

The mission was completed and, to the surprise of Ionov, the scout returned alive, receiving a military award in peacetime - the Order of Saint Vladimir of the 4th degree. The young officer was helped not only by the knowledge of the local language, but also by unsuspecting and inherited from the ancestors of the maternal line, the Mongoloid facial features. Another would, after such a dangerous enterprise, go on vacation. The path of Kornilov lies in Kashgaria and again with a reconnaissance mission. Its result was the book "Kashgaria or East Turkestan", thanks to which the intelligence officer and ethnographer also showed himself as a writer, whose work was favorably accepted by the scientific community. It seemed that the dangers only inspired the officer, because his next trip took place in 1901 and, according to Komarovsky, ran through “the Stepash of Despair - Dashti-Naumed, unexplored before him and left a white spot on the map of Persia. No traveler has ever returned from there. ” Kornilov interrupted the sad statistics.

Between these fascinating, perilous travels, he married. And what is a wedding without a honeymoon? A young couple spends it in the ... desert.

From Mukden to captivity

Of course, the headquarters of the Turkestan Military District drew attention to a talented officer, and in 1903, he went on a new expedition, this time to India, where he was caught by the Russo-Japanese War. Kornilov, like his comrade in the White movement Denikin, mentioned above, volunteers for the army in the field.

The order given in Komarovsky’s work testifies how he fought: “February 25 1905 of the year, having received an order to withdraw from Mukden station from different 1, 2 and 3 units to the Mukden station, which suffered heavy losses in the officer corps and the lower ranks, Lieutenant Colonel Kornilov, reaching the outskirts of the village of Vasai, at about three o'clock in the afternoon took up a position here and for four hours kept the onslaught of the enemy, who fired at our position with the strongest artillery, machine-gun and ru eynym fire; during this time, two regiment commanders were out of action, and in the 2 rifle regiment only three officers remained. Withstanding the onslaught of the enemy, Lieutenant Colonel Kornilov gathered the lower ranks of the various units, retreating in groups and one by one, sending them north along the railway. They were taken under the protection of the banner of the 10-th rifle regiment, followed with a small convoy separate from the regiment, and the abandoned machine guns were taken. At about 7 hours of the evening, having missed a significant mass of various units retreating from the lower ranks and thus ensuring their withdrawal, Lieutenant-Colonel Kornilov set about clearing his position. Vazy village was at this time almost surrounded by the enemy. The intensified fire of our shooters and the attack at bayonets of the 5 Company of the 3 Rifle Regiment forced the Japanese to move apart and open the way to the detachment of Lieutenant Colonel Kornilov, who carried out banners, machine guns and all his wounded and retreated to the north along the railway.

For military distinctions Kornilov promoted to colonel. The next milestone of life was China. He goes to a new place of service not by train in a comfortable 1-class car, but straight from Irkutsk to Beijing on horseback.

The beginning of the 20th century is a turning point in the history of the Middle Kingdom. Shortly before her, the outstanding Russian philosopher and mystic Vladimir Soloviev wrote: “China is still asleep, but there will be grief when it wakes up.” Did an observant military agent (military attaché) notice — by the way, having met Chiang Kai-shek’s young then — the awakening of a huge country that had just survived the defeat of the Ihetiani uprising — the first in the 20th century war among civilizations? Did you feel in the inhospitable sands of Central Asia and the snow-covered mountains of Afghanistan that it was there, and not in an alien Europe, the future of Russia? I will try to answer this question below. However, in China, Kornilov did not serve long and was recalled to St. Petersburg in 1910. Of course, he returns riding through the Mongolian steppes. Further - service in various staff and command positions. In 1911, he was promoted to major general. The First World War found him the commander of the 1 of the 9 of the Siberian Rifle Division located in Vladivostok. Kornilov hurries to the front, where “he temporarily takes under his command the 48 th infantry division, which includes regiments bearing the famous“ Suvorov ”names - 189 th Ismail, 190 th Ochakov, 191 th Largo-Kagulsky and 192 th Rymniki "(Komarovsky).

Having proved himself to be a talented ethnographer and orientalist, a scout and tireless traveler, Kornilov must demonstrate the ability to solve complex tactical tasks, even under conditions when the front-line and army command was for the most part out of place. And commanders, starting with the attackers, had to pay for both their own and their subordinates with blood for the worst mistakes of their higher - often titled - superiors. 48-I more than once turned out to be covered from the flanks and got surrounded. The question of whose fault it remains is open: either the commander, cavalry general Alexei Brusilov, or the division commander himself. However, it is known for sure: the division broke through from the encirclement, Kornilov is always ahead, for which he was promoted to lieutenant general. But in April, 1915 of the year, 48-I fell into another entourage, and its commander was captured, from which he fled the following year, becoming the only general in World War who managed to do this. In Russia, he is greeted as a hero. And a dizzying career begins: almost a year later, he traveled from comorus to the commander of the Petrograd military district - this appointment was the last order signed by Emperor Nicholas II a few hours before the abdication. However, Kornilov’s takeoff was due to the commander’s not manifested talent. The leading place in the Russian military elite ensured popularity in an exalted society. By the way, the same can be said about Kornilov’s comrade Denikin who has been mentioned many times: in 1917, thanks to his popularity in the military environment and moderate liberal views, he has turned from a comcor to a chief of staff of the Russian army.

Brusilov did not share all these enthusiasm for Kornilov, and even believed that after escaping, he should have been brought to justice, and there was a low opinion of the former leader’s leadership skills, which he wrote about in detail in his memoirs, noting that Kornilov often did not follow his orders. - for which the division suffered losses among the personnel and in the material part. Interestingly, Denikin, who deeply respected Kornilov, on the contrary, highly appreciating the commander's gift of a comrade in the White movement, does not understand the circumstances of his captivity.

Last servant of the empire

The Petrograd garrison of Kornilov headed essentially a whole month. In the whirlwind of chaos and revolutionary events caused by the collapse of the old world, he was confused. There is no wonder in this - the general was not a politician, as, in fact, the leaders of the Provisional Government, and later the leaders of the White movement, were not in the true sense of the word. Kornilov leaves the capital and receives the 8 Army, the main striking force of the upcoming summer offensive of the South-Western Front. In my opinion, in this step, the reasons for future failures. Kornilov did not understand that the people did not want to fight for the economic interests of a handful of moneybags who were ready to drive the soldiers to slaughter for the sake of "the straits and Constantinople." And it was precisely in the spring days of 1917 that the tragedy of the transformations that were once accomplished by Peter I was clearly revealed. After all, their result was the birth of two completely alien to Russia: the nobility itself — Europeanized and incomprehensible to it — the people. The life, superstitions and mentality of the latter are brilliantly reflected in the works of researchers such as Boris Uspensky and Elena Levkievskaya. And I think if the landowners of the 19th century read their books, they would have decided that they were told about the inhabitants of another, completely alien to civilization.

In a word, by the summer the peasantry (and, as is known, it was the core of the army) was less concerned about the offensive undertaken in the interests of the big bourgeoisie and the allies, disguised with pseudo-patriotic rhetoric. The Earth was excited - precisely with a capital letter, with a sacred character and an absolute value in the public consciousness. And the offensive failed, although 8-I army fought with dignity and even achieved success, largely leveled by the Tarnopolsky breakthrough of the Germans. But since the troops led by Kornilov showed their best and did not run, it was he who became the Supreme Commander in July of the 1917. And with him, the criterion for appointments to key positions in the army was not the principle of competence, but loyalty directly to the commander-in-chief. Thus, at the insistence of Kornilov, the South-Western Front accepted Denikin — a brave and talented divisional commander, but who had no experience in making strategic decisions, never before that — not even the army commander.

The popularity of Kornilov among the troops, more precisely, in the officer circles, was decided to take advantage of the big bourgeoisie — in the person of Alexei Putilov first of all. And then followed the August events, which required a separate article, as a result of which the general and his closest associates turned out to be in Bykhov, Kerensky - a political bankrupt, and the Bolsheviks a few months later - the rulers who drove the last nail into the coffin of the Russian Empire. Could Kornilov and a few, moreover, a very insignificant part of the officers, come to terms with it? The question is rhetorical. Kornilov embarked on the path of the Civil War, which ultimately led him under the walls of Ekaterinodar, where 13 of April 1918 of the year fell the curtain of the earthly life of a brave general and a talented scientist. And if it were not for Denikin's military talent, the Volunteer Army, which Kornilov, regardless of losses, would have died for slaughter, would have perished.

The tragedy is not even in the fact that he was a feigneer who, figuratively speaking, did not feel the tectonic processes that set the masses in motion with their terrible historical memory for the nobility. His metaphysical tragedy, if you like, lay in an effort to save the brainchild of Peter I - the empire, even if it were flying the republican flag, but united and indivisible, oriented to the West and designed to drag chestnuts for one or the other actor of a large European game, which she and did since the XVIII century. So Russian soldiers shed blood for the sake of France’s interests on the margins of the Seven Years War, and Peter III, who stopped this completely senseless slaughter for Russia, was almost cursed by descendants. So brilliant Suvorov freed Italy from revolutionary France for Austria. So Alexander I got involved in wars with Napoleon that were alien to us, literally provoking the latter’s invasion of 1812. So faithful to the principles of the Holy Alliance, Nicholas I allowed himself to be drawn into the Crimean War. From the same series was the First World. But the people's patience ran out, he no longer wanted to die for the economic and other interests of the "allies." The impulse that Peter once set up by the empire he created has faded away. And the curtain over her story finally fell and irrevocably. Although, as I see it, Providence gave the general a chance to feel the vector of the future geopolitical development of Russia - in the East and Central Asia. But, probably, he was deaf to what the first Russian Eurasians heard, such different personalities as Pavel Pestel, Nikolay Danilevsky and Fyodor Dostoevsky, and of the whites - Baron Ungern von Sternberg: the future of Russia is connected with the East in the widest sense of the word . This, by the way, was perfectly understood by the Bolsheviks, who had already established diplomatic relations with Afghanistan in 1919. Kornilov did not realize that after the Crimean War Peter Vyazemsky understood perfectly. Vadim Tsymbursky quoted his words in his “Morphology of Russian Geopolitics”: “Russia and Europe are no longer one, but two beings, two communities in separate spaces, and in a new era Russia will be present in the life of Europe“ by its absence ”. This is the tragedy of both Kornilov himself and the White movement as a whole.
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 21 January 2018 15: 09
    +3
    It is difficult, of course, to judge his abilities as an officer. Conflicting opinions .. I am very skeptical about the generals abilities of the tsar’s generals generally. Maybe only Brusilov and Yudenich ..
    1. captain
      captain 21 January 2018 16: 00
      18
      Kornilov was a brave brave officer. Yes, he didn’t join the Reds, unlike Brusilov (by the way, the aristocrat who graduated from the Page Cadet Corps and such commoners as Kornilov did not consider him worthy people), this was his personal position. He made his choice. The choice that many heroic generals of the Sotsk Army could not make in the 1991: Knight of the Orders of St. George of the 3 and 4 degrees, the Order of St. Anna of the 2 degrees, the Order of St. Stanislav of the 3 degrees, Badge of the 1 Kuban (Ice ) campaign (posthumous), the owner of St. George's weapons. By the way, for participating in the Russian-Japanese war, for the shown heroism, Kornilov was awarded the Order of St. George of the 4 degree and St. George's arms, and also received the rank of colonel.
      Born in the family of a Cossack cornet (a lieutenant in the modern sense), his father also quit the same rank after serving 25 years. The family was large (12 children). Mother was a Kazakh from the Argyn clan. The Omsk cadet corps was never prestigious, among the cadet corps the author is disingenuous. Kornilov entered there after his father wrote to the tsar. He passed everything on 11 or 12 ball, except for the "French". There was no teacher of a foreign language in the village. And they did not want to accept him. The king imposed a resolution; accept, at the expense of the emperor of personal funds. After a year of training, he was transferred to the state-owned "cash", showed brilliant success. He brilliantly finished art school in St. Petersburg, was engaged in tutoring and helped his family with money. He made his choice, as the generals of the Soviet army did in 1991 at one time. He, unlike Soviet generals and most of the tsarist, did not sell his homeland for jeans and chewing gum.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 21 January 2018 16: 20
        29
        He, unlike Soviet generals and most of the tsarist, did not sell his homeland for jeans and chewing gum.
        This, you are the relatives of General Karbyshev, Shaposhnikov and the thousands of others who fought in the Red Army, tell me, Mr. Captain. And the Soviet officers and generals, for the most part, did not repaint, like you, a former party member.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 22 January 2018 07: 12
          +5
          Quote: avva2012
          This, you are the relatives of General Karbyshev, Shaposhnikov and to thousands to others who fought in the Red Army,

          You would know that out of several hundreds of thousands of Russian officers only a few survived in WWII hundreds..
          WHERE hundreds of thousands the rest? !
          Lavr Georgievich, the flesh of the flesh of the Russian people, his Hero, devoted his whole life to serving the Fatherland and the Russian people, until his last breath.
          Eternal memory to him!
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 22 January 2018 07: 46
            10
            Lavr Georgievich-flesh from the flesh of the Russian people

            Not, if it is flesh, it is clearly extreme.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 22 January 2018 07: 53
              +5
              Quote: avva2012
              Not, if it is flesh, it is clearly extreme.

              Visible to the Soviet "intelligence". Disappearing, fortunately. yes
              And the Russian people erects monuments to the Russian Hero:
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 22 January 2018 07: 57
                13
                Puts the same, flesh from flesh.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 22 January 2018 09: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: avva2012
                  Puts the same, flesh from flesh.

                  Yes, the Russian people.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 22 January 2018 11: 29
                    +7
                    "The priest had a dog, he loved her ...."
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 22 January 2018 15: 37
                      +2
                      Quote: avva2012
                      "The priest had a dog, he loved her ...."

                      And the evil doctor
                      Flesh to her ... chopped off request
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 22 January 2018 15: 58
                        +5
                        Doctors do not chop. And even Guillotin, just offered this humane way to part with life. Well, you’d better not refrain. You and ordinary words in sentences are poorly connected. By the way, I didn’t think that “an endless poem”, not everyone can know. It sounds like, “The priest had a dog, He loved her, She ate a piece of meat, He killed her. He buried her, The inscription wrote that ... The priest had a dog ....
              2. Varyag_0711
                Varyag_0711 22 January 2018 08: 48
                17
                Olgovich Today, 07:53 ↑ New
                And the Russian people erects monuments to the Russian Hero:
                You don’t need to speak for the whole Russian people, all the more so for you. What side are you to the Russian people?
                In the village of Veshenskaya (though on a private courtyard) there is a monument to Ataman Krasnov, a rare bastard and a traitor to the Russian people. He also put the Russian people? And did the Russian people also hang tablets on Manerheim and Kolchak? No, not respected, you are mistaken, the Russian people knocked down these tablets.
                General Kornilov is not a “hero” of the Russian people, he is his traitor and oppressor. Well, the fact that he was erected a monument is a temporary phenomenon.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 22 January 2018 09: 24
                  +4
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  You don’t need to speak for the whole Russian people, all the more so for you. What side are you to the Russian people?

                  It was the people who set it up, just as he named the street in honor of Kornilov, his portraits hang in schools, there is a monument to General Markov in Salsk, etc. You, what side to the Russian people? belay
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  In the village of Veshenskaya (though on a private courtyard) there is a monument to Ataman Krasnov, a rare bastard and a traitor to the Russian people. He also put the Russian people? And did the Russian people also hang tablets on Manerheim and Kolchak? No, not respected, you are mistaken, the Russian people knocked down these tablets.

                  Traitors to the Russian people (as Putin puts it) are those who gave THREE countries to the invaders 100 years ago! He gave them Russian gold and Russian bread, to continue their world carnage.
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  General Kornilov is not a “hero” of the Russian people, he is his traitor and oppressor. Well, the fact that a monument was erected to him is a temporary phenomenon.

                  General Kornilov is a Russian national Hero, recognized as such long before the Thief and remained them forever. Unlike forever disappeared nat
                  true traitors.
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 22 January 2018 10: 42
                    13
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Traitors to the Russian people (as Putin puts it) are those who gave THREE countries to the invaders 100 years ago! He gave them Russian gold and Russian bread, to continue their world carnage.
                    -begger-generals from the General Staff 103 years ago managed to screw up to the fullest and brought the tsarist army to the full handle in just 3 years ...
                    1. RUSS
                      RUSS 22 January 2018 12: 20
                      +1
                      Quote: your1970
                      -begger-generals from the General Staff 103 years ago managed to screw up to the fullest and brought the tsarist army to the full handle in just 3 years ...

                      Mediocre red commanders 100 years ago managed to screw up to the fullest, brought the Red Army to the knees losing to some Poles and robbed it from the Finns
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 22 January 2018 13: 32
                        +8
                        Quote: RUSS
                        Quote: your1970
                        -begger-generals from the General Staff 103 years ago managed to screw up to the fullest and brought the tsarist army to the full handle in just 3 years ...

                        Mediocre red commanders 100 years ago managed to screw up to the fullest, brought the Red Army to the knees losing to some Poles and robbed it from the Finns
                        -But for some reason the white generals who fled their homeland did not feel any easier
                        And by the way, "to get rid of the Finns" - is this when the USSR got a large enough part of the country's total area (including Vyborg) ??
                      2. Looking for
                        Looking for 22 January 2018 17: 06
                        10
                        But doesn’t it seem to you that you INSEMBLE THE MEMORY OF MILLIONS OF SOVIET SOLDIERS. Fallen FOR THE SOVIET HOMELAND !!!
                  2. Stirbjorn
                    Stirbjorn 22 January 2018 11: 52
                    12
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    General Kornilov is a Russian national Hero, recognized as such long before the Thief and remaining them forever. Unlike the forever disappeared nat
                    true traitors.
                    "national hero" arrested his emperor, who took the oath - and then unleashed the Civil War, what could he bring to the people - a military dictatorship, like the Latin American ?! Extremely dubious, for the common people, perspective
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 22 January 2018 15: 31
                      +3
                      Quote: Stirbjorn
                      "national hero" arested his emperorwho was sworn in -

                      learn to start
                      Quote: Stirbjorn
                      and then unleashed the Civil War,

                      HOW did he unleash it if he spoke out against the rebels? If you don’t know, the rebels are always destroyed.
                      Quote: Stirbjorn
                      Extremely dubious, for the common people, perspective

                      Who are you to speak on behalf of the people? request
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 23 January 2018 01: 05
                        +7
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        HOW did he unleash it if he spoke out against the rebels? If you don’t know, the rebels are always destroyed.

                        The people always have the right to revolution; they committed it on October 25, 1917 and established the Soviet people's power, which was a triumphal procession throughout Russia. Kornilov opposed the power of the people, so he is a rebel, not a conscientious power ..
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 23 January 2018 07: 12
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      The people always have the right to revolution; they committed it on October 25, 1917 and established Soviet people's power
                      What is the attitude of the noblemen of Lenin, who lived half their lives abroad, did not know Russia, had to do with the people, what’s the matter with you ?! fool Elections, they LOSED, i.e. MINORITY-seized power!
                      You-do not have any right to speak on behalf of the people
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 23 January 2018 22: 09
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        What is the attitude of the noblemen of Lenin, who lived half their lives abroad, did not know Russia, had to do with the people, what’s the matter with you ?!

                        What nonsense are you talking about? Lenin was born and raised in Russia, and he is less Russian than the last emperor. And if the majority of the people did not support the Bolsheviks, then they could not seize power.
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 24 January 2018 09: 50
                      -1
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      What nonsense are you talking about? Lenin was born and raised in Russia, and he is less Russian than the last emperor. And if the majority of the people did not support the Bolsheviks, then they could not seize power.

                      What nonsense are you talking about ?! This individual lived half of his conscious life ABROAD, traveled ALL resorts and capitals of Europe many times. In Russia, he did not go so much and did not know her! NEVER worked. And there was no Russian blood in it.
                      Power seized by VIOLENCE, DECEPTION and TERROR.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 25 January 2018 00: 49
                        +4
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        this individual

                        The same amount of hatred is needed in you for V.I. Lenin and the Soviet regime, but this only confirms that not only the bourgeoisie and other exploiters overthrown in 1917 could not give up their privileges to parasitize the working people, but also their descendants also.
                2. andj61
                  andj61 22 January 2018 16: 10
                  +1
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  General Kornilov is not a “hero” of the Russian people, he is his traitor and oppressor.

                  I wonder who personally Kornilov oppressed. what
                  He can be considered both a hero and a "white bastard" - deservedly! - to call: in Civilian people very often looked at each other through the sight, but to call an oppressor is a bust!
          2. alstr
            alstr 22 January 2018 14: 28
            +6
            And where do we write Tukhachevsky?

            In fact, most of the officer corps that survived the civil war and remained in the USSR simply returned to their previous lives, as 90% were military officers (i.e., they were not regular military personnel).
            This applies to the entire lower level to lieutenant colonels, which should have become the basis of the generals at 41. It should also be taken into account that many of them were of a decent age and therefore could not survive for natural reasons.

            It should be borne in mind that after the Civil until the year 37-38, the number of the whole army and navy was no more than 500 thousand people.
            And to take in a significant number of old officers would not work (for political reasons).

            Again, we must admit that the officers stood in the white movement thanks to the actions of the new government. Moreover, on the one hand, there was a policy from the top to significantly limit the participation of officers in the Red Army (although often they were the same workers and peasants), and, on the other hand, excesses on the ground on the initiative from below (revenge, greed, envy, etc.) .P.). Plus a complete disorder (especially with regard to the middle and higher staff).
            All this pushed a significant part of the officers from the new government and was a breeding ground for the white movement.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 22 January 2018 15: 36
              +1
              Quote: alstr
              In fact, most of the officer corps that survived the civil war and remained in the USSR are simply has returned to your previous life, because 90% were military officers (i.e., they were not regular military personnel).

              Who gave them back? Read Volkov’s DIS “The Tragedy of Russian Officers”
              Quote: alstr
              This applies to the entire lower level to lieutenant colonels, which should have become the basis of the generals at 41. It should also be taken into account that many of them were of a decent age and therefore could not survive for natural reasons.

              90% were, as you indicated in the previous paragraph, wartime officers and it was the young
              Quote: alstr
              It should be borne in mind that after the Civil until the year 37-38, the number of the whole army and navy was no more than 500 thousand people.

              In Germany there was no army at all. And how many Reichswehr officers were in the Wehrmacht?
              1. alstr
                alstr 22 January 2018 16: 13
                +3
                Oddly enough, they gave it. All officers who did not pass the test for loyalty were ordered to be sent to the places of permanent deployment of units (I recall that most of the army was not PAP).
                And if you were over 39 years old, then the dismissal is unconditional.

                But in the SDA it was already different. But mostly sad, because the new government did not bother to come up with their occupation. By the way, after the Second World War a similar problem was solved more successfully.

                As for age, the age was different. They called for a fairly age contingent. Remember, the same Quiet Don - it says that they called for the 3rd stage (and this is the age of up to 40 years).

                As they say in the memoirs, everyone who could be assigned a title was assigned to them (by educational qualification). Or Rarely what kind of person with education was not an officer.
                Therefore, all who stayed, that one could get along well, because there were few people with education.

                As for the Wehrmacht, 100 thousand were allowed there on the territory many times less than the USSR.
                And all almost all were former officers, because it was necessary, and there was little other work. So the colonels went to the rank and file (exaggerating). And ordinary soldiers immediately received officer training. Therefore, when deploying the regiment to the division, the Germans had no problems, because they from each compartment could easily deploy a company (which, in fact, did).
                And we had the opposite. All the most prestigious and paid posts were in the national economy.
                The army (it should be recalled) up to 35 g was actually funded on a residual basis. it was then that they began to raise the prestige of the military. All appeals: Komsomolets - to the plane, to the tank, etc. "- this is the same opera - strengthening the composition of the staff. The personnel there were appropriate therefore before that - hence drunkenness and other outrages.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 22 January 2018 16: 38
                  0
                  Quote: alstr
                  Oddly enough, they gave it. All officers who did not pass the test for loyalty were ordered to be sent to the places of permanent deployment of units (I recall that most of the army was not PAP).

                  http://militera.lib.ru/research/volkov1/07.html-т
                  Am there and who gave what and how. Mostly a bullet or concentration camp.
                  Quote: alstr
                  As for the Wehrmacht, 100 thousand were allowed there on the territory many times less than the USSR.

                  What does the territory have to do with it ?! And what is 100 thousand army after 13 million drafted in the WWII is nothing. Moreover, deprived of its most important genera?
                  Quote: alstr
                  And we had the opposite. All the most prestigious and paid positions were in the national economy.

                  And the officers were received there, but they ran there ?! request
                  I will not argue, Volkov’s monograph is quite convincing and concrete and is based on sources.
                  And the fact remains, in the Red Army in 1941, the PMV unit officers, in the Wehrmacht, hundreds of times more ..
                  1. alstr
                    alstr 22 January 2018 21: 02
                    +3
                    In the 20s they took, because literate specialists simply did not remain.
                    In fact, it was only in the mid-30s that the first specialists of our own education appeared (and this applies more to the citizen, everything is much worse for the military - it was not for nothing that Zhukov did not receive a normal military education - the lack of military institutions affected).
                    And then, already in the 30s, there was no point in starting anything at the beginning (at the same time, pulling yourself from a good place). In Germany, on the contrary, there were enough workers and the military could not withstand competition with the civilians, which is why they rushed back to the army.

                    You could even say that we had few officers, but non-commissioners were enough (and the Germans were replaced by almost all non-commissioners).

                    As for Volkov, I have doubts about the death toll. Here he writes that about 110 thousand people remained on Soviet territory. and in the next 20 years (after 1922), 70-80 thousand were shot or died in the camps, but if we take the statistics of sentencing of the VMN, we get that they were all shot by the age of 33. And they put everyone in general. Which is naturally wrong.

                    This is most likely an exaggeration. Most likely, they really could have died, but we must not forget that some of them were disabled and wounded. Plus an epidemic.
                    So it is quite possible that a significant part of them died from natural causes. Or given the total number of convicts for this period.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 23 January 2018 07: 19
                      0
                      Quote: alstr
                      Here he writes that about 110 thousand people remained on Soviet territory. and in the next 20 years (after 1922) 70-80 thousand were shot or killed in camps, but if we take the statistics of sentencing of the VMN, we get that they were all shot by the age of 33.And they put everyone in general. Which is naturally wrong.

                      What statistics? Let's take
                      Quote: alstr
                      This is most likely an exaggeration. Most likely, they really could have died, but we must not forget that some of them were disabled and wounded. Plus an epidemic.
                      So it is possible that a significant portion of them died from natural causes.

                      If the bullet and the camp are natural reasons, then yes.
                      Once again, I propose to turn to common sense: HOW MANY officers of WWII-Germans, French, etc. survived to WWII in Germany, France, etc. and how many of Russia?
                      1. alstr
                        alstr 23 January 2018 11: 05
                        +4
                        It is wrong to draw conclusions about the death toll on the basis that there were few officers in the Red Army who participated in the WWII.
                        There is a reliable fact that the officers divided into approximately three equal parts: For the whites, For the reds, and those who did not care. Well, there were still comrades who simply began to rob everyone.
                        Accordingly, 30% simply in the Red Army did not serve from the word at all and who worked for the civilian.

                        It is also a fact that about 1918-1922 thousand officers served in the Red Army from 65 to 70. Moreover, 12-14 thousand of them were former officers, members of the White movement (prisoners).
                        Moreover, the Soviet government subsequently limited the number of such “military experts” (if I remember correctly, then 15%) and, accordingly, those who were left without a share of the army left for civilian life.

                        By the way, the institution of commissars arose also to ensure the loyalty of commanders, who at some point in time occupied up to 70% at different command levels.

                        If we return to repressions, then many former WWII officers were repressed, let’s raise statistics:
                        But not everything is as gloomy as it seems.
                        In total, about 40 thousand 37-39 years were dismissed from the Red Army. Of these, 10 thousand are dead and fired under the 38 g directive (foreigners). And only 20 thousand repressed (i.e., spread out and convicted)
                        Plus, we add the Spring business - 3 thousand. We get 23 thousand. But this does not reach 70-80 thousand dead, even if this figure is doubled. It should be clearly understood that the figure of 23 thousand included not only former PMV officers.
                        IMHO, it can be accepted that of the remaining approximately 110 thousand officers (in the territory of the USSR after 1922), a maximum of 25% died on political grounds, i.e. no more than 25-30 thousand
                        The fate of the rest is difficult to trace.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 24 January 2018 10: 24
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You again do not hear what they are saying.
                        The fact that few WWII officers remained in the Red Army does not mean that all those remaining died.

                        He speaks. Or do you want to say that live officers were not drafted into the Second World War because they did not want to be drafted? There was Something to call!
                        In other armies, once again, there are hundreds of times more of them.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        . Declares about 30 thousand eliminated. But then again, there were less than 10 thousand repressed (not executed) and less than 10 thousand dismissed. And again, not all were WWI officers

                        Not a word, I repeat, Volkov doesn’t mean that all the executed Red Army commanders are former officers.
                        The bulk of the former officers were destroyed in civilian life.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And so everywhere, as is common with whistleblowers, a total figure is given out for a quotient. And then on this general supplement is still wound on top.

                        These inventions have nothing to do with Volkov.
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 23 January 2018 14: 12
                      -1
                      Quote: alstr
                      It is wrong to draw conclusions about the death toll on the basis that there were few officers in the Red Army who participated in the WWII.

                      That's right, an example is the rest of the country, where there were hundreds of times more
                      Quote: alstr
                      There is a reliable fact that the officers divided into approximately three equal parts: For the whites, For the reds, and those who did not care. Well, there were still comrades who simply began to rob everyone.

                      Wrong, for part went to the national army.
                      Quote: alstr
                      If we return to repressions, then many former WWII officers were repressed, let’s raise statistics:
                      But not everything is as gloomy as it seems.
                      In total, about 40 thousand 37-39 years were dismissed from the Red Army. Of these, 10 thousand are dead and fired under the 38 g directive (foreigners). And only 20 thousand repressed (i.e., spread out and convicted)
                      Plus, we add the Spring business - 3 thousand. We get 23 thousand. But this does not reach 70-80 thousand dead, even if this figure is doubled. It should be clearly understood that the figure of 23 thousand included not only former PMV officers.

                      Who says that all repressed in the army are former tsarist officers ?! These, by the way, got a well-deserved bullet for their choice in 1917-1920
                      Of course not.
                      Former officers were killed not in the army, but in civilian life.
                      Quote: alstr
                      IMHO, it can be accepted that of the remaining approximately 110 thousand officers (in the territory of the USSR after 1922), a maximum of 25% died on political grounds, i.e. no more than 25-30 thousand

                      Volkov is much more convincing than you, excuse me. hi
                      1. alstr
                        alstr 23 January 2018 17: 06
                        +4
                        You again do not hear what they are saying.
                        The fact that few WWII officers remained in the Red Army does not mean that all those remaining died.
                        Moreover, the fact is that the Soviet government did not seek to use WWI officers in the army, as doubted its reliability. Therefore, at first there was a weighty criterion for the loyalty of power, and then professional skills.
                        From here in 1941 there couldn’t be many PMV officers,

                        Unlike the Wehrmacht, where on the contrary the task was to preserve the officer corps as much as possible and they selected only the most professional, and not devotees, into their scanty army. Moreover, the Wehrmacht managed to distance themselves from Nazism to a certain extent (well, they earned money stupidly for a living).
                        And the officers of the Red Army also played politics (for which they deservedly received it).

                        And about the credibility. In the same chapter 7 there is a reference to the Spring case. and attributed that all 3 thousand were WWI officers. So this is not so. And they later released the part altogether (but again, they shot it again in the 37-39th year - like they were resurrected after being shot in the 30th).
                        The same parsley with a 37-39 year. Declares about 30 thousand eliminated. But then again, there were less than 10 thousand repressed (not executed) and less than 10 thousand dismissed. And again, not all were WWI officers.

                        And so everywhere, as is common with whistleblowers, a total figure is given out for a quotient. And then on this general supplement is still wound on top.
        2. Monarchist
          Monarchist 22 January 2018 12: 47
          +1
          Dear avva (numbers of Satan), you carefully read: "the heroic generals of the Soviet Army could not be done in 1991", and you remembered the Second World War. In addition, Shaposhnikov was a marshal, and the general and marshal are different sizes
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 22 January 2018 13: 18
            +9
            From the evil one, dear Vyacheslav, not numbers, but something else. The numbers, they are Arabic, just numbers. And the country was destroyed by politicians. Soviet officers and generals, were fully faithful to the oath. While there was a Union. And when he was gone, unlike the tsar’s, they remained loyal to either the army or honestly left for a civilian. They did not organize riots. But there were quite a few who remained a communist. Could also arrange an "ice campaign" or something else, eventually ending in a civil war. However, the Soviet officer, for the most part, did not drop his honor. This is not understood by the gentlemen praising Kornilov and others like him. They staged a massacre, but ours did not. Honor and praise be for them.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 22 January 2018 15: 52
              +1
              Quote: avva2012
              And when he died, unlike the tsar’s, they remained faithful or armies or honestly left for a citizen.

              What kind of army are "faithful"? !fool Ukrainian-Moldavian-Lithuanian, etc.? fool
              Quote: avva2012
              Could would also arrange an “ice campaign” or something else, which eventually ended in a civil war.

              They could not, because they did not want to. For whom? For Yanaev ?! Or Ligacheva? lol laughing The decision (treacherous, yes) was made not by some Ilych from the street, but by the country's top politicians and legislative bodies, i.e. became the law. Lawbreaker is automatically a criminal. In the 17th criminals were ilichi
              Do not catch the differences?
              Quote: avva2012
              They staged a massacre, but ours did not.

              The fight against rebels and usurpers of power is everyone's direct responsibility citizen.
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 22 January 2018 16: 31
                +6
                Dove, are you gray-winged, have all the chessboards circled?
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 23 January 2018 07: 27
                  0
                  Quote: avva2012
                  Dove, are you gray-winged, have all the chessboards circled?

                  Why do I need boards? belay
                  All on you! hi
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 23 January 2018 08: 01
                    +4
                    Well, yes, it can be seen, a profuse (not bleeding) torrent about what you do not understand. ps There are no complaints about the basic definition, as I understand it? Well, at least you understand and accept yourself as you are. I wonder where such an experience in self-development comes from. Have you ever been in the group of anonymous alcoholics?
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 23 January 2018 10: 14
                      0
                      Quote: avva2012
                      torment about what you do not understand.

                      My dear man, you count how many YOU erupted and how many. lol
                      Quote: avva2012
                      To the main definition of no complaints, as I understand it?

                      Why do I need your visions? belay
                      Is it decent to bother them with strangers? request
                      PS-have not forgotten what the article is about? lol Distract, ON ARTICLE! lol
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 23 January 2018 12: 42
                        +3
                        Well, that is, agree, he is the dove. laughing
                        Is it decent to bother them with strangers?

                        Well, what, you are an outsider, you have long been local.
                        Distract, ON ARTICLE!
                        Right! Lavr Georgievich, three times a traitor who received what he deserved. And only flesh like you (see your own comment above) can erect monuments and praise one of the organizers of the civil war in our country.
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 23 January 2018 13: 48
                      -1
                      Quote: avva2012
                      Well, that is, agree, he is the dove.

                      belay fool
                      Quote: avva2012
                      Well, what, you are an outsider, you have long been local.

                      Enough stranded and not so local that you bother me with yours, um, lol fantasies
                      Quote: avva2012
                      Right! Lavr Georgievich, three times a traitor who received what he deserved. And only flesh like you (see your own comment above) can erect monuments and praise one of the organizers of the civil war in our country.

                      Three times Hero, did everything so that Russia could escape the civil massacre unleashed by the Bolsheviks with its 10 million victims, escape your famines from and your cannibalism with unprecedented victims in the world, your island of PEOPLE on the Ob, WWII and the extinction of the Russian people that began with you .
                      Under him, this would NOT be and would not be, respectively, in the future.
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 23 January 2018 14: 40
                        +4
                        "you bother me" belay You bother, Carl! laughing laughing Precisely, in Moldova, hospitals were closed and everyone was sent home. wassat And yours, three times a traitor, you can call whatever you like. An example is near you, where are the heroes, all kinds of Shukhevychs. Once betrayed, betrayed twice. This is just about him, but he is in this case, still unique.
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 23 January 2018 22: 16
                        +4
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Three times Hero, did everything so that Russia escaped the civil massacre unleashed by the Bolsheviks

                        Everything in your head is upside down. Lavr Kornilov, who unleashed a civil war, raising a rebellion against Soviet power, turned out to do everything to prevent a civil war, and the Bolsheviks who needed peace to build a state of workers were to blame. White is black, black is white ...
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 23 January 2018 14: 53
                      -1
                      Quote: avva2012
                      You bother, Carl!

                      Something simpler for you, doesn’t perceive the comm “intellect? lol
                      "Annoying, annoying." Again, don’t you know? And what do you even know ?! belay lol
                      Quote: avva2012
                      А your, three times a traitor, you can call it anything you like.

                      Not mine, but PEOPLE, his status as a Hero who determined.
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 23 January 2018 17: 34
                        +4
                        I understand that it’s not your people. You have nothing to do with our people.
                    4. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 24 January 2018 10: 32
                      -1
                      Quote: avva2012
                      I understand that it’s not your people. You have nothing to do with our people.

                      Not only my Hero, but all my Russian people, to whom you, who hate and do not know his History and Culture, have nothing to do.
                      Are you from some kind of "new historical lol community "-without roots, no memory, no Fatherland. hi
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 24 January 2018 13: 51
                        +3
                        Said belay a dove from Moldova and flew. On the topic of the article, is there anything else, Komsomol?
            2. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 23 January 2018 01: 37
              +3
              Quote: avva2012
              They did not organize riots. But there were quite a few who remained a communist. Could also arrange an "ice campaign" or something else, eventually ending in a civil war.

              Avva, all right, the rebellion would lead to a new civil war, in which it is not yet a fact that "Soviet power" would have won.
              The fact is that by this time there was a petty-bourgeois degeneration of the Soviet people and the CPSU, and when the majority do not want socialism, because they do not understand its progressiveness, the minority cannot take power into their own hands, because, no matter how revolutionary it is, it is all equally, it would not be able to impose on most people its desire to live under socialism.
              You remember how powerful the treatment of the Soviet people was before this, the fifth column in power satisfied artificial shortages, all the media poured dirt on socialism, on the USSR, on Stalin, on the Bolsheviks and in a choke, how well they live in the West. Naturally, the petty-bourgeois philistine wanted not to work, but to live in the West.
              The masses learn from their own experience, today they are being trained by capitalism. Not far off is the time when they not only realize that they have been cruelly deceived, not only realize that it is impossible to live on like this, but also realize their class interest - and this is the way to establish the power of the working people - the dictatorship of the proletariat.
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 23 January 2018 03: 50
                +2
                all right, the rebellion would have led to a new civil war, in which it was not yet a fact that "Soviet power" would have won.

                Alexander, that's right, but there were enough resolute and courageous generals in the Soviet army, I think. Parenting was different. Soviet. The military’s rebellion against the authorities has always been called rebellion. It is the soldier’s business to defend the state from external enemies, while other services are engaged in internal security. And therefore, the rebels were always hanged. You thought why you chose this method of execution?
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 23 January 2018 07: 36
                0
                Quote: Alexander Green
                and this is already the way to establish the power of the working people - dictatorships of the proletariat.

                Let me remind you of the CONSTITUTION of the Russian Federation, if you forgot:
                .
                The state guarantees equal rights and freedoms of man and citizen independently by gender, race, nationality, language, origin, [/ b [b]] property and official position, place of residence, religion, beliefs, affiliation with public associations, as well as other circumstances. Any form of restriction of rights of citizens on grounds of social racial, national, linguistic or religious affiliation.

                You to jail it is necessary for such calls to limit the rights of tens of millions of citizens.
                Which Kornilov tried to do.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 23 January 2018 08: 13
                  +4
                  You must go to jail for such calls for restricting the rights of tens of millions of citizens.
                  Which Kornilov tried to do.

                  And what did Mr. Kornilov have to do with the Constitution of the Russian Federation? According to the Laws of RI or RR, he committed a rebellion, for which he was to be punished. In RI, it seems, the death penalty by hanging, no?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 23 January 2018 10: 22
                    0
                    Quote: avva2012
                    And what did Mr. Kornilov have to do with the Constitution of the Russian Federation? .
                    He PROTECTED these rights of EVERY citizen of Russia, from the DICTATORSHIP of the minority, restricting and spitting EVERYONE on these rights.
                    Quote: avva2012
                    According to the Laws of RI or RR, he committed a rebellion, for which he was to be punished.

                    He destroyed rebels, what are you talking about ?! fool
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 23 January 2018 13: 19
                      +5
                      Mr. Kornilov, betrayed the king, who was sworn in, swore allegiance to the Provisional Government. Further, Mr. Kornilov rebelled against the Provisional Government, which he swore. Well, in the end, he started a war against his own people (Soviets, this was also the chosen power), thus, three times a traitor. What minority are you writing about? fool
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 23 January 2018 14: 00
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Mr. Kornilov, betrayed the king, who was sworn in, swore allegiance to the Provisional Government.

                        The emperors called for obedience to the EaP before the Supreme Council, Nikolai APPOINTED Lvov as the Chairman of the Government, respectively, the army swore allegiance to the EaP.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Opponent Kornilov rebelled against the Provisional Government, which he swore.

                        EP commission found him innocent of “rebellion”
                        Quote: avva2012
                        started a war against his own people (Tips, it was also the chosen power

                        ! Congress of Soviets SUPPORTED VP. PEASANTS (this is 85% of the country) REFUSED to take part in the 2 Congress of Soviets, fraudulently gathered by the Bolsheviks from ... their friends.
                        What is the "power of the people"?
                        . People’s power is elections in the CSS,

                        Bottom line: Your nonsense is heavily involved just on primeval ignorance..
                        Not ashamed SO SO little to know about their homeland? request
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 23 January 2018 15: 01
                      +5
                      "EaP commission found him INNOCENT in" rebellion "
                      "Once, it doesn't count," huh? wassat The gathering decided to consider him a peasant, so what? laughing The very fact of taking the oath of the air forces, and then, without a command from the air forces, moving troops to seize power, is an armed rebellion. And after that, “forgiven” him or not, the very action of Kornilov does not cancel. Ampirator, yours, after he signed the abdication in favor of Michael, "we pass
                      our heritage to our brother our grand duke Mikhail .... ",
                      can "appoint" anyone, that's just the price of this appointment, you know, zero. And, I didn’t hear such nonsense about Nicholas, "VP, formed by the interim committee of the State Duma with the consent of the leaders of the Petrograd Council." Something like this in reality.
                      ps And what is "Emperors called ...". Who is this? “Voice” on the left and “voice” on the right? laughing
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 24 January 2018 10: 09
                        -1
                        Quote: avva2012
                        "Once, it doesn't count," huh? The gathering decided to consider him a peasant, so what?

                        Which one time? VP investigators recognized him innocent in the "rebellion". Repeat TWO times? One didn’t get it again? fool
                        Quote: avva2012
                        The fact itself, giving the oath to the VP, and then, without a command from the VP, troop movement to seize power, is an armed rebellion

                        Again you sat down in a puddlelol : Oysk in the capital were nominated by order of the VP! You are completely ignorant. How not ashamed? I do not understand... request
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And after that, they “forgave” him or not, the very action of Kornilov,

                        Not forgiven, but found not guilty.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Ampirator, yours, after he signed the abdication in favor of Michael, "we pass
                        our heritage to our brother our grand duke Mikhail .... ",
                        can "appoint" anyone

                        Not after, but before.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And, I didn’t hear such nonsense about Nicholas,

                        So you don’t know anything at all. Nicholas II:
                        After my abdication for myself and for my son from the Russian throne, power transferred to the Provisional Government, on the initiative of the State Duma that arose. May God help him lead Russia along the path of glory and prosperity.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        ps And what is "Emperors called ...". Who is this? “Voice” on the left and “voice” on the right?

                        First, Nicholas II. then Michael II, you are our illiterate. yes
                    3. avva2012
                      avva2012 24 January 2018 14: 00
                      +4
                      Mikhail 2, he would have been after the wedding to the kingdom, and since he was not there, he would remain, citizen M, Romanov. And the rest of the nonsense, let your doctor, interpret a certain specialty in medical documentation.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 January 2018 10: 47
                        -1
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Michael the 2nd, he would have been after the wedding to the kingdom, and since he was not there, he would remain, citizen M, Romanov.

                        Not you, illiterate, to talk about it,
                        Do you remember the rest that I taught? yes
                        YOURSELF LEARN BEFORE WRITING.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And the rest of the nonsense, let your doctor, interpret a certain specialty in medical documentation.

                        The doctor didn’t help you. Why are you giving me stupid advice? request
                    4. avva2012
                      avva2012 26 January 2018 03: 30
                      +2
                      Do you remember the rest that I taught?

                      laughing laughing laughing "Teached" fool is lithium carbonate over? The emperor may be the one who was crowned kingdom, understand? fool I see. what not. The dove is gray-winged, visit, nevertheless, doctors, monitor your health. Such a local, it will be a pity to lose. We will die of boredom. crying
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 26 January 2018 10: 03
                        -1
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Is "cooked" lithium carbonate over?

                        Again with a Russian at odds? fool
                        Quote: avva2012
                        The emperor may be the one who was crowned kingdom, understand? I see. what not

                        He became them after the abdication of Nicholas in his favor. Do not understand?
                        Quote: avva2012
                        The dove is gray-winged, visit, nevertheless, doctors, monitor your health. Such a local, it will be a pity to lose. With boredom we will die

                        BLUE, DO NOT visit the doctors: it is already impossible to help you. yes
                    5. avva2012
                      avva2012 26 January 2018 10: 43
                      +2
                      BLUE

                      Is this an attempt to insult? laughing Kindergarten, dove, you, chess.
                      He became them after the abdication of Nicholas in his favor. Do not understand?

                      There is nothing to understand. Michael 2, he could become after the Christian sacrament, "Kingdom wedding solemn, sacred, the adoption by the monarch of the symbols of his power. The State Wedding Act on the kingdom declared the territorial integrity of the Russian state, political sovereignty and unity of the Russian nation, the guarantor of which was the tsar’s autocratic power. This act regulated in detail the rank of the Wedding to the kingdom (the initial rank of placing on a great reign), a characteristic feature of which was a combination of secular and spiritual rites. The latter was sacrament of anointing - the extraordinary gift of the Holy Spirit, communicated only to prophets, apostles and sovereigns. This rite affirmed the sacredness of the person of the sovereign (the “anointed of God”) as the earthly viceroy of God, who are inherent in the divine attributes: throne (throne) and staff. "Https://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/moscow/475/ Something like that , it was. And as you imagine, it is possible only in a mournful house.
                      Again with a Russian at odds? fool

                      Quote Olgovich: The rest, taught remember me? What is wrong with the Russian? belay They themselves wrote. wink And, lithium carbonate, if it is over, it is necessary, necessary, necessary to continue. Although I’m not an expert in this field, I highly recommend yes
                2. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 23 January 2018 22: 02
                  +5
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  and this is already the way to establish the power of the working people - the dictatorship of the proletariat.

                  Let me remind you of the CONSTITUTION of the Russian Federation, if you forgot:

                  Do you like the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie better when the rights of 99% of all citizens are limited?
                  And do you really believe that "the State guarantees the equality of the rights and freedoms of man and citizen, regardless of] property and official position"?
                  Does a simple worker have the same rights as billionaire Deripaska or Abramovich? Do not make people laugh.
                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack 23 January 2018 22: 16
                    +4
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Does a simple worker have the same rights as billionaire Deripaska or Abramovich? Don't make people laugh

                    IMHO you confuse the rights (they are, generally speaking, the same) and opportunities.
                    Opportunities for various segments of the population always different. With any system yes
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 24 January 2018 02: 04
                      +5
                      Quote: Golovan Jack
                      IMHO you confuse the rights (they are, generally speaking, the same) and opportunities.

                      No, dear, rights on paper do not mean that these are real rights. In order to have the right to exercise the rights granted by the bourgeois Constitution, one must be rich. If there is money, there are rights, but there is no money - what rights can we talk about. So all the rights of the common people remain on paper, and paper, as you know, will endure everything.
                      1. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 24 January 2018 06: 31
                        +5
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        In order to have the right to exercise the rights granted by the bourgeois Constitution, one must be rich. There is money - there are rights, but there is no money - what rights can we talk about

                        But from now on, please read more (C).
                        Which of the rights guaranteed by the Constitution can you (conditionally) not use for the sole reason that you do not have enough money for this?
                        Specifically, indicating the article of the Constitution, if not difficult.
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        So all the rights of the common people remain on paper

                        Well, Art. 29 (about freedom of speech etc) You (like me, however) are using it at all.
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Opportunities for different segments of the population are always different. With any system

                        This, I hope, does not cause objections? wink
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 25 January 2018 01: 44
                        +4
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        This, I hope, does not cause objections?

                        Today they talk a lot about “equal” rights in a supposedly democratic society, but none of the talkers have yet said how to realize them. And they can only be realized if there is a money bag, and this is the main limitation in the exercise of rights for the vast majority of the people.
                        The only right in today's society that is really ensured is the right to vote. But this is not right, it is a dummy, this is done so that the people once in 5 years come to the ballot boxes and throw a ballot for someone who will have it strongly in the next five years.
                        In order to realize constitutional rights in society, conditions must be created. In the USSR, for example, for the realization of rights, Soviet society created all conditions so that everyone could learn to develop culturally without any money, to participate in public work.
                        And if you don’t see, or don’t want to see the difference, then you are either a narrow-minded person, or just want to continue to fool the people to continue to parasitize on its ignorance.
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 24 January 2018 10: 14
                    -1
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Do you like the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie better when the rights of 99% of all citizens are limited?

                    I like the dictatorship of ALL the people, expressed in the elections, and not some group or part.
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    And do you really believe that "the State guarantees the equality of the rights and freedoms of man and citizen, regardless of] property and official position"?

                    Officially, ALL are equal, with you, millions of people were officially UNFROMPENDED.
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Does a simple worker have the same rights as billionaire Deripaska or Abramovich? Do not make people laugh.

                    Give documents where their VARIOUS rights are indicated, you are our mocking one. lol
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 25 January 2018 01: 03
                      +4
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      I like the dictatorship of ALL the people, expressed in the elections, and not some group or part.

                      Where do you see her? And the money bag wins in the elections, the people have long been convinced of this and every year they go to the elections less and less.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Officially, ALL are equal, with you, millions of people were officially UNFROMPENDED.

                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Give documents where their VARIOUS rights are indicated,

                      Don’t you understand anything at all, or is it just wedging you from hatred of the Soviet regime? Who will tell you openly that in your beloved capitalist society not everyone is equal? On the contrary, all the media from morning till night fool the people that they have the same rights as those in power.
                      And in the USSR, indeed, everyone had equal rights to work, to education, to rest, to free training and medical care. And you do not criticize them, but normal people all understand that these were real rights, and not on paper as they are now.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 January 2018 10: 55
                        -1
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Where do you see her? And the money bag wins in the elections, the people have long been convinced of this and every year they go to the elections less and less.

                        I see in the whole world. Once again, for YOURSELF, say, the people didn’t authorize you
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Don’t you understand anything at all, or is it just wedging you from hatred of the Soviet regime? Who will tell you openly that in your beloved capitalist society not everyone is equal? On the contrary, all the media from morning till night fool the people that they have the same rights as those in power.

                        Are you completely hooked on hatred of a NORMAL human society? Where there are NORMAL courts (rather than triples), NORMAL newspapers (and not "so-called truths"), parties (rather than CPSUs), etc.
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        And in the USSR, indeed, everyone had equal right to work, to education, to rest, to free training and medical care

                        You tell about the rights of the dead from hunger 13,5 million from. WHERE are their rights? And 4, 4 million dispossessed (robbed to the skin), hundreds of thousands of executed, etc. WHERE are their rights? Everyone has equal rights, yes fool
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 25 January 2018 19: 53
                        +4
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Once again, for YOURSELF, say, the people didn’t authorize you

                        Hatred obscures your eyes, for this reason you can’t even understand the texts. I didn’t write on behalf of the people, I cited the fact that more and more of the people stop going to the polls because I realized that this is an ordinary fool; "Do not vote, bourgeois will pass anyway."
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Are you completely hooked on hatred of a NORMAL human society? Where there are NORMAL courts (rather than triples), NORMAL newspapers (rather than "so-called truths"), parties (and not the Communist Party)

                        Wedges you, pay attention to your twitching text.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You tell about the rights of the dead from hunger 13,5 million from. WHERE are their rights? And 4, 4 million dispossessed (robbed to the skin), hundreds of thousands of executed, etc. WHERE are their rights? Everyone has equal rights, yes

                        ... your song is good, start over ... How many times this exaggerated chewing gum can be chewed on you on the site many times, many users gave an answer, but you still did not figure it out. It says something ...
        3. M. Michelson
          M. Michelson 24 January 2018 22: 50
          -1
          Well, we went together to serve Yeltsin, without even repainting. That's better?
          And the task of general officers is not to "paint", but to defend the homeland. In the 90s they did not fulfill this task. And do not “tell Karbyshev,” but rather “what would Karbyshev say here.”
          sad
      2. parusnik
        parusnik 21 January 2018 16: 52
        13
        He, unlike Soviet generals and most of the tsarist, did not sell his homeland for jeans and chewing gum.
        ... He could refuse such an honorable duty as the arrest of the empress, but he did not refuse. Yes, and like almost all the generals (future red, white, separatists), he refused the oath to the sovereign, who did a lot for him and took the oath to the Provisional Government. , they didn’t take this oath. Like I.S. Turgenev’s in “Fathers and Sons,” Arkady, don’t speak beautifully ...
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 21 January 2018 17: 08
          19
          Lavr Kornilov: General Nobody
          Captain Today, 16:00 ↑ New
          Kornilov was a brave brave officer. Yes, I did not join the Reds, unlike Brusilov
          but for my great-grandfather, he was a "white bastard" and a "executioner" ...
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 21 January 2018 17: 17
            14
            It will remain so. Of the merits, only courage. For the general it is important, but not the main thing.
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 21 January 2018 17: 32
              +7
              Quote: avva2012
              It will remain so. Of the merits, only courage. For the general it is important, but not the main thing.

              For me, Kornilov is a hero!
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 21 January 2018 17: 47
                14
                Without a doubt. "Do not take prisoners."
                1. RUSS
                  RUSS 21 January 2018 17: 54
                  +6
                  Quote: avva2012
                  Without a doubt. "Do not take prisoners."

                  This is what you are, and if you take prisoner, then drown on barges, right?
            2. MrK
              MrK 21 January 2018 18: 20
              16
              Quote: avva2012
              Of virtues, only courage

              I agree. The Russian generals who knew him well spoke of him: “The heart is lion’s, and the head is lamb ...”
              1. Moore
                Moore 23 January 2018 12: 10
                +5
                Perhaps the best comment is in a ... dispute with stubborn monarchists.
            3. Mikado
              Mikado 21 January 2018 20: 21
              +6
              So Alexander I got involved in alien wars with Napoleon, literally provoking the latter's invasion in 1812

              I continue: one can blame Stalin for provoking Hitler, which for some reason Viktor Suvorov, who is still not a shot pseudo-historian, is engaged in. I'm talking about the level of the article. Bold minus.soldier agitation! with respect to the administration hi
      3. Monarchist
        Monarchist 21 January 2018 18: 07
        +7
        Rotmister, I like your assessment of Kornilov: if the Soviet generals were faithful to their duty as Kornilov I do not know how our story would have developed
        1. Old warrior
          Old warrior 22 January 2018 11: 24
          +6
          Malacholian idiots. Anti-Soviet-Russophobe-TRADER OF THE HOMELAND.
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 22 January 2018 12: 21
            0
            Quote: Old Warrior
            Malacholian idiots. Anti-Soviet-Russophobe-TRADER OF THE HOMELAND.

            Cry from the heart? laughing
            1. Old warrior
              Old warrior 23 January 2018 12: 01
              +4
              Statement of fact. yes
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 23 January 2018 13: 05
                -1
                Quote: Old Warrior
                Statement of fact. yes

                And how long have the facts become facts because of the conclusion of one person? laughing
      4. avt
        avt 21 January 2018 18: 11
        14
        Quote: captain
        He, unlike Soviet generals and most of the tsarist, did not sell his homeland for jeans and chewing gum

        There was no demand for jeans then.
        Quote: captain
        .He made his choice, as the generals of the Soviet army did in 1991.

        And he really made a choice, that’s how all the front commanders and the chief of staff, Alekseev, leaked the top commander for having been arrested by a group of conspirators at the Dno station, derailing the Empire. Then there was only a drop down. Well, he was a really outstanding person - a medical fact. Death took the soldier - is also a fact. Well, his remains were buried ..... fate decreed what he deserved - equal to death from a shell. Directly in the name of February 1917.
        "The heart is the lion’s, the head is the lamb!" It was about him that Alekseev spoke so.
        Tough, but for sure.
      5. Monarchist
        Monarchist 22 January 2018 13: 02
        +1
        "the family was large (12 shares)" L.G.'s own sister (rural teacher) was shot in 1929, and the son of General Kornilov was with the family of A.I. Denikin and emigrated
    2. Horseman without a head
      Horseman without a head 21 January 2018 19: 34
      21
      210ox
      I am very skeptical about the generals abilities of tsarist generals. Maybe only Brusilov and Yudenich ..

      And in vain. A lot of worthy and wonderful generals.
      And from the persons of the 1st echelon, in addition to Brusilov and Yudenich, Pleve and Lechitsky were forgotten. Pleve beat the Germans, it is a pity he died early. Lechitsky did not know defeats.
      1. your1970
        your1970 22 January 2018 10: 47
        +4
        Quote: The Headless Horseman
        And in vain. A lot of worthy and wonderful generals.
        - only here they lost the war before 1917 ..
        and yes, the mass of smart, knowledgeable, unsuccessful generals stupidly profiled the war, then stupidly profiled the empire, then stupidly profiled the civilian, the Babos who shared the rest abroad also shared ....
  2. captain
    captain 21 January 2018 15: 22
    +4
    Brave and talented was a general. He did not flush abroad, did not go to the Reds, although he was socially close to them. Mother was a simple Kazakh woman from the nomadic Argyn family .. Therefore, he also has such an eye incision.

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    Kornilov Lavr Georgievich. General biography




    Mystery


    Lavr Georgievich Kornilov (born 18 (30) on August 1870, the death of March 31 (April 13) on 1918) General of Infantry. Supreme Commander of Russia (July - August 1917 years) in the First World War 1914 – 1918. General, military intelligence, diplomat, traveler.
    Origin
    Lavr Kornilov was born in the family of a retired coroon village of the Karkaraly Siberian Cossack army in the then small town of Ust-Kamenogorsk (now Kazakhstan).
    Father Egor Kornilov was a serving Siberian Cossack from the Gorky Line on the Irtysh. He served on the horse for 25 years and was able to get the first officer rank of cornet. Upon his resignation, he settled in Karkaraly, becoming a clerk of the rural municipality. Mother was a simple Kazakh from a nomadic Argyn family.
    Father with his position as class officials on the Table of Ranks (in a modern way his father was a "lieutenant", after 25 years of service) with great difficulty managed to get his son in the Omsk cadet corps, the corps was not "elite", as the author of the article writes (elite Page in St. Petersburg graduated Brusilov, he was from the aristocracy). Father personally wrote to the king about Lavr Kornilov early realized that in life he will
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 21 January 2018 17: 11
      +5
      [quote] [quote = captain] The general was brave and talented. [/ quote] [quote] THE MOON IN THE SIGN OF THE ZODIAC [/ quote] [quote] ONLINE GUYANT [/ quote] [quote] Unknown [/ quote] -author
      etno .... still REN_TV connect here ...
      1. Monarchist
        Monarchist 21 January 2018 18: 13
        +2
        And can you challenge the facts from the biography of Kornilov?
    2. your1970
      your1970 22 January 2018 10: 57
      +4
      the Argyn clan belongs to Middle Zhuz - it is quite influential, and periodically fighting for centuries with the Elder Zhuz for the unification of clans. The younger Zhuz is, by the standards of the Middle and the Elder, hungry, outcasts. Even under the Soviet regime no one was able to get out of the Younger Zhuz from the boss even at the local level (village council, village council, etc.). And everyone who then escaped to power like the Younger - still had a relationship with the Main Zhuzes (great-great-grandfather, great-great-grandmother). There it was (and is now) very important
      Now Nazarbayev from Middle Zhuz - and what Zhuz will come to power after his death is such a policy in the Republic of Kazakhstan and will be.
      Z.Y. So Kornilov’s father didn’t marry a famine - but a woman from a respected family
      1. odometer
        odometer 22 January 2018 11: 37
        0
        Nazarbayev N.A. from the Elder. And there is such a saying: "Give the Elder Zhuz a staff and let him watch the cattle, give the Middle pen and let him solve the disputes, give the Younger a spear and send him to the enemy." And now, other factors are affecting the distribution of power, the zhuzs to a lesser extent.
      2. your1970
        your1970 22 January 2018 11: 49
        +1
        in a hurry and sealed, naturally he is from the Elder repeat ..
        How Zhuzes influence and whether they influence - we will see in the next 10-15-20 years (after his death)
        I’m very surprised if the Younger comes
  3. mavrus
    mavrus 21 January 2018 15: 23
    14
    "The heart is the lion’s, the head is the lamb!" It was about him that Alekseev spoke so.
    And it is not clear why suddenly the author “name-calls” him, the general, who loudly declared: “Either the monarchy or I!”, Who, along with Denikin, was indignant that monarchist sentiments were encountered among the officers, “the last servant of the Empire.”
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 21 January 2018 15: 30
    +5
    Lavr Georgievich Kornilov, passed “fire”, “water”, but “copper pipes” destroyed him ...
  5. Naputeon bonaput
    Naputeon bonaput 21 January 2018 15: 47
    +7
    After Churchill's appeal about the Soviet offensive on the Eastern Front to help allies defeated in the Ardennes, Stalin obligingly agreed to launch the offensive ahead of schedule. Saved from the defeat of English-speaking friends.
    1. zoolu350
      zoolu350 21 January 2018 20: 09
      +6
      Do not slander Comrade Stalin for the German offensive in the Ardennes was completely exhausted on January 3, 1945, and the Vistula-Oder operation began on January 12, 1945.
    2. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 21 January 2018 20: 14
      +4
      Quote: Naputeon Bonaput
      After Churchill's appeal about the Soviet offensive on the Eastern Front to help allies defeated in the Ardennes, Stalin obligingly agreed to launch the offensive ahead of schedule. Saved from the defeat of English-speaking friends.

      What would you do?
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 22 January 2018 11: 15
      +5
      Quote: Naputeon Bonaput
      After Churchill's appeal about the Soviet offensive on the Eastern Front to help allies defeated in the Ardennes, Stalin obligingly agreed to launch the offensive ahead of schedule. Saved from the defeat of English-speaking friends.

      Comrade Stalin, in fact, delayed the already prepared offensive for 2-3 days - due to adverse weather.
      In general, the myth of a “premature offensive to save the Allies in the Ardennes” was launched by the IVS during the Yalta Conference to receive preferences in the post-war division of Europe. In fact, the front-line plan for a future offensive was presented to the commanding staff of the armies as early as the 20th of December, and the planned advance of tank armies to the bridgeheads began at the end of 1944 (and no one recalls any rush or assault). The coming of the tank army to the bridgehead is a signal that the offensive will be within a week. For a long time to keep the TA in the 20x50 km section is to expose it to the impact of enemy artillery.
  6. Varyag77
    Varyag77 21 January 2018 16: 22
    +4
    Quote: 210ox
    It is difficult, of course, to judge his abilities as an officer. Conflicting opinions .. I am very skeptical about the generals abilities of the tsar’s generals generally. Maybe only Brusilov and Yudenich ..

    Of course. where are they to the Soviet then. How many millions of lives cost the stupidity and illiteracy of the generals of the Red Army in the initial period of the war? And all these battles to memorable dates? Be skeptical of all our generals, with rare exceptions, you will not miss.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 21 January 2018 17: 23
      11
      Our generals, who is this? In Wrangel, sailing in the English battleship, you will not miss.
  7. midshipman
    midshipman 21 January 2018 16: 54
    +9
    A tragic fate befell these truly Russian people. All the king betrayed, getting involved in the war for the Dardanelles. I think their fate does not bother anyone in the Russian Federation. Although budget money (this is our national money), was spent on a film about a layu. Which was a protege of US Jewry for the destruction of Russia. And they showed the people a different story.
    My grandfather, a nobleman, fought in the Japanese War (1904). He was wounded, and then he gave all his strength to the Land of Soviets. He was the chairman of the collective farm, a teacher. He died in 1940. This I quote from the stories of my mother. I have the honor.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 21 January 2018 17: 13
      +9
      Quote: midshipman
      My grandfather, a nobleman, fought in the Japanese War (1904). He was wounded, and then he gave all his strength to the Land of Soviets. He was the chairman of the collective farm, a teacher. He died in 1940.

      how did his bloody GEPEU not sewn ... ??? what
    2. Monarchist
      Monarchist 21 January 2018 18: 22
      +6
      By and large, Russia was forced to join the WWII, we have already talked about this more than once.
      Nicholas 2 was henpecked, and that was the trouble of him and the State.
  8. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 21 January 2018 16: 56
    +3
    I don’t agree with the thought of the "non-European" nature of the Russian people and the Russian state. The Russians are as Europeans as the Chinese are Asians.
    1. Naputeon bonaput
      Naputeon bonaput 21 January 2018 17: 30
      +2
      The Bolsheviks did their best to tarnish the image of Russia and the Russian people in the world. So that the Russians are associated with wild butcher revolutionaries, who for the sake of their crazy ideas not only stoke the blood of neighboring nations, but also do not spare themselves. The Bolsheviks needed a huge, evil and stupid Cerberus People who would renounce their ancestors, history, culture. From the Soul itself. Renunciation of the Light and falling into the red haze.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 21 January 2018 17: 38
        16
        Other than delirium, nothing concrete. What did you want to say?
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 21 January 2018 17: 48
          15
          Other than delirium, nothing concrete. What did you want to say?
          Brad.
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 21 January 2018 17: 56
            +4
            Man, are you printing from 2 accounts? Or from two computers? Avva2012 and Mordvin 3 is one person? laughing or fool. do thoughts converge?
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 22 January 2018 00: 53
              +9
              I'm interested in: RUSS ===== Olgovich ??? Or RUSS ==== Teterine ?????
              And so: RUSS === specially trained employee verner !!!!!! Exactly! One person!
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 22 January 2018 07: 44
                +6
                Dmitry, you noticed that the calmness is “Man, what are you ..”, this is clearly a consequence of the white bone and blue blood of the opponent.
                1. RUSS
                  RUSS 22 January 2018 09: 17
                  +1
                  Quote: avva2012
                  what is the calm

                  Calm? If you really want to flash your letter and tuck something, then try to write without errors
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 22 January 2018 11: 38
                    +4
                    What for? So far, I do not violate the rules of the site, I will write, because I want to. Especially with my worker-peasant origin. You, in my opinion, are not worth dropping to my level or even lower, using similar expressions: "Man, what are you .." Hold the mark, once you are honored to teach another adult.
              2. RUSS
                RUSS 22 January 2018 09: 18
                +1
                Quote: Reptiloid
                I'm interested in: RUSS ===== Olgovich ??? Or RUSS ==== Teterine ?????
                And so: RUSS === specially trained employee verner !!!!!! Exactly! One person!

                Reptiloid, I’m telling you to stick for them, let them answer whether it is one person or the forum member has two accounts.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 22 January 2018 11: 47
                  +5
                  Dmitry, as if without your wise instructions, will decide what to do. Don't you think? ps The site administration sees such things without your annoying comments. I think so.
                  L.G. Kornilov, however, is not the kind of person who is worth honoring. He then swore an oath to Nicholas 2 and, as if not to relate to him, a soldier, nevertheless, must take the oath of allegiance. After all, before the Almighty she was given then, and not in the face of her comrades, as it was in the USSR. Violation of the oath and in this case, the act is low, but it is an offense to people, and there before God.
                2. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 22 January 2018 14: 59
                  +6
                  Quote: RUSS
                  Reptiloid, I’m telling you to stick for them, let them answer whether it is one person or the forum member has two accounts.
                  And who is it for them? I always equate Olgovich with Aleksander, here, as they say, it coincides in terms. Another thing is that you had to follow earlier, and not late .. And who is your co-author ----- Teterin or an employee of verner ? I think that still verner !!!!!! What harnessed? I would like that there would be less lies and slander on the site, although this muck and around is complete in life.
            2. avva2012
              avva2012 22 January 2018 07: 42
              +6
              As they say on the Internet, the explosion is satisfied. I’m sure that in spite of everything, I’ll have to turn to specialists. Apparently, in a private clinic, because, an ordinary clinic, it is, after all, the remnants of the inheritance from Soviet health care and, of course, does not suit you for ideological reasons. Of course, in private, doctors may turn out to be not only with a Soviet education, but also with a communist ideology. What to do, you have to endure, because you were born in a Soviet hospital, in conditions of aseptic and antiseptic, and not in the bushes at the stable, if Lavr Georgievich didn’t have an allergy to lead. Sadness, of course. crying ps It is very interesting, and with what fright Bonaput user bothered you? Not really, where does such an emotional extravaganza come from?
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 22 January 2018 20: 08
                +3
                Alexander, about Bonaput, .. A sick or drunk person can be seen anywhere, including here. I’m more worried about those who +++++ to him. Or don’t they know how to read? Or drank too? Cool comment with lying horror stories Alexey RA sent +++++ It's a pity few people could understand him !!!!!!
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 23 January 2018 03: 46
                  +2
                  You can meet a sick or a drunk person anywhere
                  I am now more concerned about those who are +++++ to him.

                  Are you worried about Olgavich? Good joke good
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 23 January 2018 09: 45
                    +2
                    However, you puzzled me, Alexander. When I don’t see the comments of the 4 Russophobes and anti-advisers you know, I don’t remember them. From the word at all. Although verner, in my opinion, nobody +++++. He needs to fulfill the plan as soon as possible.
                    It remains to be happy if they have +++ no more than 3x.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 22 January 2018 11: 20
        +7
        Quote: Naputeon Bonaput
        The Bolsheviks did their best to tarnish the image of Russia and the Russian people in the world. So that the Russians are associated with wild butcher revolutionaries, who for the sake of their crazy ideas not only stoke the blood of neighboring nations, but also do not spare themselves.

        I really didn’t know. that at the end of the XNUMXth century the Bolsheviks ruled in Russia. smile
        Here is the image of Russia in the West at that time:

        Wild imperial butchers stoke in the blood of the Poles trying to make a European choice.
      3. Old warrior
        Old warrior 23 January 2018 12: 04
        +3
        Stupidity is utter. The West only reckoned with the Soviet Union. About Russia, what was then, that now only wipes his feet.
    2. M. Michelson
      M. Michelson 24 January 2018 22: 56
      0
      Here is an imposed confusion of concepts Europe и West. Whether the Europeans are Russian or not is a scholastic question, because now only those who share western values. But in this regard, Russians are not only not Europeans, but also anti-Europeans, since their entire civilization rests on anti-Western foundations!
  9. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 21 January 2018 17: 33
    15
    General Kornilov, along with General Alekseev, arrested their Supreme Commander-in-Chief Emperor Nicholas II, who was sworn in. In the history of such cases, there was no betrayal. True, God saw everything and gave them life a year after the deed.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 22 January 2018 20: 18
      +2
      Quote: tihonmarine
      General Kornilov, along with General Alekseev, arrested their Supreme Commander-in-Chief Emperor Nicholas II, who was sworn in. In the history of such cases there was no betrayal.

      What about apoplexy snuff и hemorrhoidal colic with a fork?
  10. Horseman without a head
    Horseman without a head 21 January 2018 19: 32
    20
    Excellent commander and combat officer.
    A good general - with all the jambs in the Carpathians.
    And more suitable for such mobile wars as the Civil than the world. Actions with a 10-fold superiority of the Reds in the 1st Kubansky are evidence of this.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 21 January 2018 20: 41
      +5
      Quote: Headless Horseman
      Excellent commander and combat officer.
      A good general - with all the jambs in the Carpathians.
      And more suitable for such mobile wars as the Civil than the world. Actions with a 10-fold superiority of the Reds in the 1st Kubansky are evidence of this.

      Yes, then the Volunteer Army painted the reds well. !!!!
      On the Don, those glorious victories are still celebrated!
      Cossacks of the Yekaterinodar department of the Kuban Cossack army took part in the reconstruction of the battle for the village of Nekrasovskaya, which was waged during the legendary Ice Campaign of the Volunteer Army Lavr Georgievich Denikin.


      Above the green, steep hills, not far from the confluence of the Laba and Kuban rivers, the command “Get ready for battle!” Sounds. Volunteer army units begin an offensive. Reds hold the defense. Artillery volleys are not silent - the battle for the village of Nekrasovskaya is in full swing. Now everything is the same as 97 years ago, only opponents know who will win today.

      On March 21, in the village of Nekrasovskaya in the Ust-Labinsky district, a historical reconstruction of the battle took place, dedicated to the 100th anniversary of the First ice campaign of the Volunteer Army in 1918. About 150 people took part in the reconstruction of the battle - Cossacks of the Kuban Cossack army, members of the military-historical clubs of the cities of Moscow, Tula, Rostov-on-Don under the leadership of an employee of the Russian military-historical society, candidate of historical sciences Nikolai Kopylov.

      The “whites” in a marching column begin the offensive from the forest to the heights occupied by the “reds”. The main task is to take the steep hill on which the Red Army men were entrenched. In the hands of the participants of the impromptu battle, models of the Mosin rifle, according to them, the models of Maxim machine guns work. "Reds" open fire from all types of weapons with signal-blank cartridges, and it seems that bullets are firing. Seconds to reload, and again shots. Smoke obscures the sky.

      Nevertheless, having overcome the hills densely covered with shrubs, the companies of the White Guards finally came to a gentle slope and almost came up against the Red Guards. Shells roar around. There are wounded. Before my eyes flashes of fire and impenetrable smoke screen. And now the Volunteer Army occupies a dominant height, suppressing individual centers of resistance. The shooting flashed right there, and fell silent, the enemy retreated. Captured Red Army soldiers are invited to join the ranks of the Volunteer Army.

      - I am fond of the story of Ice Campaign. I have been collecting documents, books for a long time, I also ask the descendants of the participants in the battles, one of whom, by the way, I recently found in Chile. Next year I plan to carry out reconstruction in one of the Adygei villages, in 2017 - near Arkhipskaya, and in 2018 - in the Yekaterinodar region, ”said the project organizer, ataman of the Volnensky farm community of the Assumption RKO of the Labinsky department of the Kuban Cossack army Oleg Karpov.

      At the end of the brilliant victory of the “whites” under the command of General Lavr Kornilov, all the participants of the formation went to the monument to Major General Solomatin Mikhail Karpovich, the hero of the Great War, the St. George Knight, where they honored the memory of the famous Kuban Cossack, with three fireworks at the burial place.

      The building of the Cossack administration of the village of Nekrasovskaya has been preserved in excellent form. Today, there is the administration of the village, a pharmacy and a police stronghold. It was from the right porch of this building on March 8, General L.G. Kornilov addressed the Cossacks with a speech in which he asked the stanchiks not to support Soviet power and to help the Volunteer Army. Next to him stood Denikin and the last chieftain of the village of Sbronsky. At this place, the results of a large-scale event were summed up. Letters of gratitude "For contribution to the organization and holding of a military-historical event dedicated to the events of the 1st Kuban (Ice) campaign of 1918" from the All-Russian public-state organization "Russian Military Historical Society" were awarded: the head of the village of Nekrasovskaya Tatyana Skorikova; Ataman of KhKO "Volnenskoye" of the Labinsky Division, officer Oleg Karpov; deputy chieftain of the Labinsky department of the foreman Alexander Krasovsky; the chieftain of the Yekaterinodar department of the military foreman Viktor Svetlichny; Deputy chieftain of the Yekaterinodar department, centurion Alexander Agibalov.

      “This feat is related to the most wonderful moments of the human world, when on the scales of Conscience and Love the phenomena of two orders were weighed: perishable and incorruptible, slavery and freedom, dishonor and honor. The ice trip lasts. He is eternal, like an immortal soul in people, an unquenchable lamp that smolders with the Lord’s light, ”wrote Russian writer Ivan Sergeyevich Shmelev about the significance of the campaign.
      1. Sanya Terek
        Sanya Terek 22 January 2018 01: 12
        +8
        Quote: RUSS
        Cossacks of the Yekaterinodar department of the Kuban Cossack army took part in the reconstruction of the battle for the village of Nekrasovskaya, which was fought during the legendary Ice Campaign of the Volunteer Army Lavr Georgievich Denikin [/ b].

        Lavr Georgievich Denikin? Who is this???
        Quote: RUSS
        Next year I plan to carry out reconstruction in one of the Adyghe villages, in 2017 - under Arkhipskoyand in 2018 - in the Yekaterinodar region, ”said Oleg Karpov, ataman of the Volnensky farm community of the Assumption RKO of the Labinsk department of the Kuban Cossack army, ataman of the project.

        There is no village of Arkhipskaya in the Kuban, there are AFIPSA.
        At least you think a little about what you write.
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 22 January 2018 04: 14
          +7
          Quote: Sanya Tersky
          Lavr Georgievich Denikin? Who is this???

          Janus Two-Face
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 22 January 2018 09: 15
          +1
          Quote: Sanya Tersky
          At least you think a little about what you write.

          I copied from the Internet, and copied with a typo, did you satisfy the answer?
        3. RUSS
          RUSS 22 January 2018 09: 15
          0
          Quote: Sanya Tersky
          At least you think a little about what you write.

          I copied from the Internet, and copied with a typo, did you satisfy the answer?
          1. Sanya Terek
            Sanya Terek 22 January 2018 12: 54
            +4
            Quote: RUSS
            I copied from the Internet, and copied with a typo, the answer you satisfied?

            The answer to mNu was not satisfied. Let me give you advice for the future. Copy, carefully read, make changes, if necessary, and then add your comment.
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 24 January 2018 09: 39
              -1
              Quote: Sanya Tersky
              Let me give you advice for the future.

              According to the rules of good manners, advice can be given only to your wives, and to everyone else, recommendations
      2. Old warrior
        Old warrior 22 January 2018 11: 34
        +6
        PRESENT, the Cossacks fought in the Red Army - the 4th Kuban Order of Lenin and the Red Banner of War named after K. Voroshilov regiment and in the respective Corps. And this current gopota ha in but disguised.
        1. Old warrior
          Old warrior 22 January 2018 11: 39
          +5
          I apologize, I was mistaken, but I can’t fix it. Correct: 4th Don Cossack Order of Lenin Red Banner Order of the Red Star Division named after Comrade Voroshilov.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Sanya Terek
            Sanya Terek 22 January 2018 19: 08
            +5
            Let me complement you.
            From the first minutes of the war in the area of ​​Lomzhi, the 6th Kuban-Terskaya Cossack Cossack Red Banner Division named after S. M. Budyonny (94th Beloglinsky Kuban, 48th Belorechensky Kuban and 152nd Tersky Cossack Cavalry Regiments), part of the 210th mechanized division, formed from the former 4th Don Cossack Red Banner Division named after K.E. Voroshilovay. As part of the 2nd Cavalry Corps, the 5th Stavropol Cossack Cavalry Division im. M.F. Blinova.
            In total, during the war years, more than 70 combat units were formed from the Cossacks. In the formation of cavalry divisions took part not only the Cossacks of the Don, Kuban and Terek, but also the Urals, Transbaikalia and the Far East. The Ural Military District gave over 10 such divisions, their basis being the Ural and Orenburg Cossacks. 7 cavalry divisions were formed in Transbaikalia and the Far East. A large part of their personnel was represented by the Transbaikal, Amur and Ussuri Cossacks.
            At the end of the war in the Red Army, there were 2 Guards Cossack Cavalry Corps - the 4th Guards Cavalry Kuban Cossack Corps and the 5th Guards Cavalry Don Cossack Corps, the 9th Plastun Rifle Krasnodar Red Banner, the Order of the Red Star Division.
            But, of course, the Cossacks fought not only in Cossack formations. Thousands of Cossacks served in the infantry, artillery, tank troops, aviation and navy. Since the beginning of the war, more than 100 thousand REAL Cossacks fought in the ranks of the Red Army.
            Although now more and more remember those who fled for the cordon, and some are trying to justify those who returned with the Nazis.
            1. Old warrior
              Old warrior 23 January 2018 12: 08
              +3
              Alaverdi:


              Since February 13, 1937, Cossack divisions had the following composition:
              4th Don Cossack Order of Lenin Red Banner Order of the Red Star Division named after Comrade Voroshilov 19th Cavalry Manychsky Red Banner Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 19th Don Cossack Manyichsky Red Banner Regiment
              20th Cavalry Salsky Red Banner Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 20th Don Cossack Salsky Red Banner Regiment
              21st Cavalry Don-Stavropol Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 21st Don Cossack Don-Stavropol Regiment
              23rd Cavalry Stalingrad Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 23rd Don Cossack Stalingrad Regiment
              4th mechanized regiment, from 13.02.37 - 4th Don Cossack mechanized regiment
              4th Cavalry Artillery Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 4th Don Cossack Cavalry Artillery Regiment
              4th Separate Communications Squadron; from 13.02.37 - 4th Don Cossack Separate Communications Squadron
              4th Separate Engineer Squadron, from 13.02.37 - 4th Don Cossack Separate Engineer Squadron

              6th Kuban-Terskaya Cossack Chongar Order of Lenin Red Banner Order of the Red Star Division named after Comrade Budyonny 31st Cavalry Belorechensky Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 31st Kuban Cossack Belorechensky Regiment
              32nd Cavalry Beloglinsky Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 32nd Kuban Cossack Beloglinsky Regiment
              33rd Cavalry North-Don Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 33rd Kuban Cossack North-Don Regiment
              34th Cavalry Rostov Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 34th Kuban Cossack Rostov Regiment
              6th mechanized regiment, from 13.02.37 - 6th Kuban Cossack mechanized regiment
              6th cavalry artillery regiment, from 13.02.37 - 6th Kuban Cossack cavalry artillery regiment
              6th Separate Communications Squadron; from 13.02.37 - 6th Kuban Cossack Separate Communications Squadron
              6th separate combat engineer squadron; from 13.02.37 - 6th Kuban Cossack separate combat engineer squadron

              10th Terek-Stavropol Cossack division 68th cavalry Krasnokumsky regiment, from 13.02.37 - 68th Stavropol Cossack Krasnokumsky regiment, from 5.06.37 - 68th Stavropol Cossack regiment
              77th Cavalry Buzuluk Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 77th Terek Cossack Buzuluk Regiment
              78th cavalry regiment, from 13.02.37 - 78th Terek Cossack Nevinnomyssky cavalry regiment
              89th Cavalry Pyatigorsk Regiment named after V.V. Kuybyshev, from 13.02.37 - 89th Terek Cossack Pyatigorsk Regiment named after V.V. Kuybyshev
              10th Cavalry Artillery Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 10th Tersky Cossack Cavalry Artillery Regiment
              10th mechanized regiment, from 13.02.37 - 10th Terek Cossack mechanized regiment
              10th separate combat engineer squadron, from 13.02.37 - 10th Terek Cossack separate combat engineer squadron
              10th Separate Communications Squadron, from 13.02.37 - 10th Terek Cossack Separate Communications Squadron

              12th Kuban Cossack Division 54th Cavalry Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 54th Kuban Cossack Regiment
              67th Cavalry Caucasian Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 67th Kuban Cossack Caucasian Regiment
              69th Cavalry Uman Red Banner Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 69th Kuban Cossack Uman Red Banner Regiment
              88th Cavalry Armavir Regiment, from 13.02.37 - 88th Kuban Cossack Armavir Regiment
              12th mechanized regiment
              12th Horse Artillery Regiment
              12th Separate Sapper Squadron
              12th Separate Communications Squadron

              13th Don Cossack Division 76th Don Cossack Red Banner Regiment. t. Budyonny
              123th Don Cossack Regiment
              124th Don Cossack Regiment
              125th Don Cossack Regiment
              13th Don Cossack Mechanized Regiment
              13th Don Cossack Horse Artillery Regiment
              13th Don Cossack Separate Communications Squadron
              13th Don Cossack Separate Engineer Squadron
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 22 January 2018 12: 26
          -1
          Quote: Old Warrior
          PRESENT, the Cossacks fought in the Red Army - the 4th Kuban Order of Lenin and the Red Banner of War named after K. Voroshilov regiment and in the respective Corps. And this current gopota ha in but disguised.

          The Red Cossacks are traitors to the Cossacks and the Motherland, many truthfully heroically fought in the Second World War, washing away the shame of betrayal.
          Quote: Old Warrior
          And this current gopota ha in but disguised.

          And those who fought in Bosnia, Transnistria, Chechnya and the Donbass?
          1. your1970
            your1970 22 January 2018 13: 37
            +7
            Quote: RUSS
            Red Cossacks are traitors to the Cossacks and the Motherland
            "And the white Cossacks are beauty and glory ?? why did they betray the tsar to the tsar? Did the Cossack convoy swear allegiance to the Provisional Government for 3 days? And there are children of the servants - almost all the tsar’s godchildren were ...
            And more than then they betrayed ...
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 22 January 2018 20: 25
            +6
            Quote: RUSS
            Red Cossacks are traitors to the Cossacks and the Motherland

            Do you want to remember Ataman Krasnov? With his letter to Emperor Wilhelm - on the recognition of the neutrality of the Don Army, which had seceded from Russia, the preferential supply of food to Germany in exchange for German help in expanding the borders of this Don Army. One and indivisible, Yes...
            But at that time the First World War had not yet ended ... or did Krasnov recognize the Brest Peace? wink
            And how well Krasnov treated Denikin and the Volunteers, first having taken away all Cossack units from the White Movement and trying to put his paw on Drozdovsky’s detachment as well, and then trying to send them to take Tsaritsyn (judging by Krasnov’s letter to Wilhelm, the chieftain wanted to join this city to the Army Donskoy).
            I have four enemies: our Don and Russian intelligentsia, which put the interests of the party above the interests of Russia, are my worst enemy; General Denikin; foreigners are Germans or allies and Bolsheviks. And I’m least afraid of the latter, because I am conducting an open struggle with them, and they do not pretend that they are my friends ...
            © Krasnov
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. Sanya Terek
            Sanya Terek 22 January 2018 22: 41
            +5
            Quote: RUSS
            The Red Cossacks are traitors to the Cossacks and the Motherland, many truthfully heroically fought in the Second World War, washing away the shame of betrayal.
            How unambiguous! And let's compare two Don Cossacks:
            1. Konstantin Iosifovich Nedorubov. Full St. George cavalier in the WWI, a prudent of the 18th Don Cossack Regiment of the Don White Army, commander of the red squadron in the Civil War, guard captain, squadron commander, Hero of the Soviet Union in World War II.
            2. Peter Nikolaevich Krasnov. RIA Major General, Ataman of the Great Don Army, proclaiming the Don a state oriented to Germany. After the Nazi attack on the USSR, he appealed to the Cossacks with an appeal to support Hitler. In 1942, he offered the German command assistance in creating Cossack units as part of the Wehrmacht. In September 1943, Krasnov headed the Main Directorate of Cossack Forces in Germany.
            So which one is a traitor?
            For you, it seems - the first, but for me definitely - the second.
          5. Old warrior
            Old warrior 23 January 2018 12: 11
            +4
            Unlike your colleagues, peppered in a fascist wagon train, as the sixes of the Wehrmacht, they defended the homeland. Traitors are like you and others like you. As for the rest: my friends went through all these Points and are skeptical of the Cossacks ... Go, get out, to clean the sahib boots.
    2. Old warrior
      Old warrior 23 January 2018 12: 27
      +2
      Exactly, he would be in the Red Army ...
  11. Cartalon
    Cartalon 21 January 2018 21: 32
    10
    Judging by the comments of the fighters for the new Civil, heaps.
    1. SOF
      SOF 21 January 2018 21: 56
      +6
      Quote: Cartalon
      Judging by the comments of the fighters for the new Civil, heaps.

      ... that's for sure ... Everything is like Lube:
      Clover full of juices
      Wind winds across the field
      And above the fields a raven
      Not spinning circles

      Clover will throw in a manger
      Grandfather grumble timidly
      White cut red
      Reds chop white
      White cut red
      Reds chop white

      The world is far away
      Visible in narrow windows
      Russians chop Russians
      Russians chop Russians
      ... sad ... We have no worse enemy than ourselves ...
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 22 January 2018 07: 22
      +3
      Quote: Cartalon
      Judging by the comments of the fighters for the new Civil, heaps.

      No Reds. And civilian, respectively, no.
      1. Albatroz
        Albatroz 22 January 2018 09: 24
        +2
        But the tendency to spit on pre-revolutionary Russia and non-Soviet GV sector intensified
        And everywhere redness breaks
        Not casual
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 22 January 2018 09: 51
          +3
          Quote: Albatroz
          But the tendency to spit on pre-revolutionary Russia intensified
          And everywhere redness breaks
          Not casual

          Yes, how to spit, so every time you get into YOURSELF lol : that of demography, that of the consumption of food, clothing, housing, that of freedoms, rights and humanity.
          Losing on all counts.
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 23 January 2018 01: 49
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich
            Yes, how to spit, so every time you get into YOURSELF

            And how do you spit in socialism or in the USSR, so you get into Russia.
            The dissident Zinoviev, after the collapse of the USSR, said for sure that "All enemies of the Soviet government marked in the USSR, but ended up in Russia!"
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 23 January 2018 14: 04
              -1
              Quote: Alexander Green
              And how do you spit in socialism or in the USSR, so you get into Russia.

              He himself so spat outthat others don’t need to make an effort: just describe these self-spitting lol
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 23 January 2018 14: 39
                -1
                Quote: Olgovich
                Quote: Alexander Green
                And how do you spit in socialism or in the USSR, so you get into Russia.

                He himself so spat outthat others don’t need to make an effort: just describe these self-spitting lol

                I meant, of course, the regime, and not the country of the USSR.
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 23 January 2018 22: 05
                  +3
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  I meant, of course, the regime, and not the country of the USSR.

                  Well, that's exactly what Zinoviev said that they spat in the USSR, but ended up in Russia.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 24 January 2018 10: 17
                    -1
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Well, that's exactly what Zinoviev said that they spat in the USSR, but ended up in Russia.

                    Once again: your regime spat on itself so much that others did not need it.
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 25 January 2018 23: 48
                      +4
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Once again: your regime spat on itself so much that others did not need it.

                      Why are you still spitting? Can't stop?
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 26 January 2018 10: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Why are you still spitting? Can't stop?

                        I AM?! fool I DESCRIBE self spitting Your regimen.
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 26 January 2018 10: 53
                      +2
                      I DESCRIBE self spitting

                      Self-spitting is a diminution of one's own merits. What is it, recovery? belay
    3. Old warrior
      Old warrior 22 January 2018 11: 41
      +3
      Have not raked for a long time ...
    4. M. Michelson
      M. Michelson 24 January 2018 23: 02
      +1
      How else?
      In 1991-93 a new round of Civil, revanchist began. Recently, Tsipko let slip, calling the tricolor “the flag of Denikin” (it is).
      Russian people thought for a long time, gathered for a quarter of a century. Finally, we realized how much would be twice two: under this flag of Russia kirdyk. And naturally, a new stage of the Civil should begin: the liberation.
      Or do you think it will resolve?
  12. samarin1969
    samarin1969 21 January 2018 22: 27
    +4
    The article is interesting, although replete with controversial author generalizations. There is no "predestination" in history; people make history.
  13. Head Physician
    Head Physician 21 January 2018 22: 40
    20
    Front-line officer is not always = adequate politician
    Moreover, under the empire there was a postulate: the army is outside politics
    I had to disentangle
    Not all weapons can be solved.
    But the person is colorful, fighting. Scout, connoisseur of the east, the only general who escaped from captivity (from all the armies of the WWI). And not for us to judge ...
  14. Albatroz
    Albatroz 22 January 2018 09: 21
    +1
    No need to change the oath
    Everyone concerns
    And there will be - hurt yourself
  15. BAI
    BAI 22 January 2018 10: 16
    +2
    Member of the Civil War, where no one did anything good (by definition). Yes, he was among the losers. Well, why do all this stir up? History is studied in order not to repeat mistakes. What will we extract here, besides the next debate, where the truth is not born, but buried? There is probably only 1 tsarist officer, the level of a general to whom no one has any complaints - Admiral Makarov.
  16. RUSS
    RUSS 22 January 2018 14: 30
    -1
    your1970,
    Quote: your1970
    And by the way, "to get rid of the Finns" - is this when the USSR got a large enough part of the country's total area (including Vyborg) ??

    No from the Finns the Red Army raided in two wars: in the first Soviet-Finnish war of 1918-1920 and in the second 1921-1922.
    Although in 39 Finns it was not possible to overcome in a hurry, and the beauty could not be returned to Suomi!
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 23 January 2018 11: 48
      +5
      Quote: RUSS
      No from the Finns the Red Army raided in two wars: in the first Soviet-Finnish war of 1918-1920 and in the second 1921-1922.

      It’s funny that the second Soviet-Finnish war began largely because the Finns considered shameful peace treaty that concluded the first war. That is, the victory for the Finns was a smack of defeat.
      And by the way, when did the Red Army ogrebla in the second Soviet-Finnish war? Really it was when the valiant Finns and their accomplices bravely retreated to the Soviet-Finnish border, and the Karelian front cowardly stepped behind them, driving the Finns out of Soviet territory? wink
      Quote: RUSS
      Although in 39 Finns it was not possible to overcome in a hurry, and the beauty could not be returned to Suomi!

      Judging by subsequent events, I didn’t really want to. Otherwise, the fate of Finland would have been decided in the summer of 1940: its old sponsors and guarantors were broken, the Finns did not have close contacts with the new one yet, there is no defense line. The ideal time for the continuation war ... but the IVS did not begin to finish off the Finns.
      As for the Kuuusinen government. then it was created just in case - but how will the Finnish defense and the Finnish army turn out to be what it was in our plans? smile
    2. Old warrior
      Old warrior 23 January 2018 12: 30
      +3
      They didn’t want to. And so your Suomi would burn with a blue flame, Club.
  17. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 22 January 2018 15: 14
    +6
    the people do not want to fight for the economic interests of a handful of moneybags who are ready to drive soldiers for slaughter for the sake of the "straits and Constantinople."

    It would be worth a little clarification. As for the straits ... in general, such a goal, of course, was. But in that war, Russia was much less independent in order to really pursue such a goal. Alas. Count Witte grabbed a huge amount of loans from France. With these loans, he greatly warmed up our economy. But during the war, our troops were controlled not so much by the “often titled” military leaders as by these very loans, almost directly.
    A lot of blood, a lot of direct defeats and dubious victories brought us this management. And yes, the people absolutely did not understand the situation, fortunately for some people. And that would have blazed even earlier. And how famously hear now the cries from France that we still owe them ...
  18. Adjutant
    Adjutant 22 January 2018 22: 40
    +2
    remembered by pseudo-historical series

    And this article is not pseudo-historical
    Probably the ultimate truth
  19. M. Michelson
    M. Michelson 24 January 2018 23: 05
    0
    Who gives the names?
    Kornilov was definitely an UNCERTAINTY officer (no matter how he was treated in everything else). And the name is "General Nobody" (?).