Military Review

Germany nightmare

119



January 9 1941 for the first time took off Avro "Lancaster", which became the most massive British heavy bomber during the Second World War, and indeed in general history English aircraft. Prior to the cessation of serial production in January of 1946, British and Canadian aircraft factories produced 7377 of such machines in several versions. By the beginning of 1945, they were fully or partially armed with five of the six strategic bomber air groups of the Royal Air Force.

Since February 1942, when the first Lancaster squadrons reached combat readiness, they made 156 thousand sorties, dropping 619 thousand tons of bombs to Germany and the countries occupied by the Germans. This amounted to more than two-thirds of the total bomb load dropped by the English bomber aviation in the years 1942-45. 3345 "Lancaster" were shot down by German fighters and anti-aircraft guns or crashed in accidents and disasters. At the same time, more than 10 thousand British and Canadian pilots died.

As is known, during the war, more precisely, approximately from the middle of 1943, between the American and British long-range bomber aircraft aimed at Germany, there existed a kind of "division of labor." The American Liberators and Flying Fortresses, which had powerful defensive weapons, operated mainly during the daytime and delivered targeted targeted strikes against industrial, transport and military sites. And the British worked at night, carrying out carpet bombing of German cities in order to undermine the demographic potential (that is, to destroy the civilian population) and exert psychological influence on the survivors.

The main role in this was played by the crews of the Lancaster, so it was on their account that the majority of 600 thousands of German civilians, including 70 thousands of children who died as a result of air strikes, should be attributed. Thus, the "Lancaster" can be called the most deadly aircraft in world history. However, for this honorary title with him can argue the American B-29 "Superfortress", noted the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as well as the burning of Tokyo and many other Japanese cities.


Top down:
"Lancaster" Mk.X open bomb bombs.
"Lancaster" Mk.III "Uncle Joe". Asterisks marked combat missions.
"Lancaster" Mk.VII, equipped with a radar bomb sight.


"Lancaster" is preparing for the next flight.


The ten-ton high-explosive bombs "Grand Slam" - the most destructive weapon "Lancaster".


One bomb raid - one city.


Something went wrong.


One of those who have not returned.
Author:
Originator:
https://vikond65.livejournal.com/708360.html
119 comments
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  1. apro
    apro 20 January 2018 07: 21
    19
    It’s easier to beat a tied dog ... these terrorist attacks did not make a significant contribution to the reduction of Nazi military power. And they mostly bombed settlements diligently bypassing military factories owned by German-American businessmen.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 20 January 2018 10: 54
      +9
      Quote: apro
      It’s easier to beat a tied dog ... these terrorist attacks did not make a significant contribution to the reduction of Nazi military power. And they mostly bombed settlements diligently bypassing military factories owned by German-American businessmen.

      Where did the information come from?
      1. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 20 January 2018 11: 45
        +3
        Where did the information come from?


        https://topwar.ru/35451-lend-liz-dlya-gitlera.htm
        l
        https://masterok.livejournal.com/954689.html
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 15: 03
        +7
        Where did the information come from?


        Basically, statements of this kind date back to Ch.Hiam's book "Trade with the Enemy."
        Short here
        https://vakhnenko.livejournal.com/125513.html

        Typically, such statements are a sure sign of enthusiastic foolishness.
      3. Dalailama
        Dalailama 20 January 2018 23: 31
        +1
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehousing
        It is too?
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 12: 40
          +1
          Quote: DalaiLama
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehousing

          Have you started giving links? Congratulations, growing over yourself.

          And why is it here? Has anyone denied the bombing of cities by the British?
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 21 January 2018 15: 36
            0
            Are you all enthusiastically trampling your bread bins?
      4. Maverick1812
        Maverick1812 22 January 2018 10: 22
        +1
        Read Anthony Sutton. This publicist cannot be blamed for the love of the Soviets, but his own people hated him at all .... http: //detectivebooks.ru/book/41958
        645 /
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 22 January 2018 16: 01
          0
          Quote: Maverick1812
          Anthony Sutton. This publicist cannot be blamed for his love of the Soviets.

          I mean, comrade Was Stalin not Left Left for Mr. Sutton?

          You may not be aware. Blaming Wall Street for absolutely everything (now, it seems, bankers are to blame for Trump, sexism, the epidemic of obesity and global warming) - this is the religion of American leftists for many years.
          By my link you could read how the historical work differs from bullshit.
  2. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 20 January 2018 07: 50
    17
    The main role in this was played by the crews of the Lancaster, so it was on their account that the majority of 600 thousands of German civilians, including 70 thousands of children who died as a result of air strikes, should be attributed. Thus, the "Lancaster" can be called the most deadly aircraft in world history. However, for this honorary title with him can argue the American B-29 "Superfortress", noted the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as well as the burning of Tokyo and many other Japanese cities.

    Yeah! The barbarism of civilized Europeans and Americans has no limits. Bombing peaceful cities and killing civilians is actually a war crime, for which, incidentally, Goering was convicted and hanged. But the British and Americans themselves did not suffer any punishment and did not repent. And imagine if this USSR would burn Dresden and bombard Japanese cities with atomic bombing? How much stink would it be? Akhedzhakova would apologize on behalf of all Russians for the "barbaric atomic bombings," Makarevich would protest, and Sobchak would call the Russians "barbarians."
    1. Cat
      Cat 20 January 2018 09: 01
      +9
      .... How much stink would it be? Akhedzhakova would apologize on behalf of all Russians for the "barbaric atomic bombings," Makarevich would protest, and Sobchak would call the Russians "barbarians."

      And what, today there is less "stink and revelation"? The truth truly touches me sincerely in the aforementioned category: they repent for us, scold us, give ours, without at the same time defaming ourselves with US!
    2. Reklastik
      Reklastik 20 January 2018 10: 13
      +2
      Well, the Makarevichs and Akhedzhakovs did not advertise themselves then ...
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 20 January 2018 10: 42
        +1
        I mean, now I would apologize on behalf of all Russians "for the barbaric bombings of German and Japanese cities."
    3. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 15: 05
      +3
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      if this USSR would burn Dresden and bombard Japanese cities with atomic bombing?

      Well, at least someone fought WWII without civilian casualties, what a delight!
    4. verner1967
      verner1967 21 January 2018 10: 26
      +3
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      Bombing peaceful cities and killing civilians is actually a war crime

      in general, these peaceful cities and people were in a country fighting against us. Are you another boy, Kolya? And here I like the words of the hero of the film "Only the elderly go into battle": "Satisfied with the ruins of the Reichstag!"
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 21 January 2018 10: 30
        +1
        Goering, Slobodan and Hussein were hanged for the bombing of peaceful cities.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 12: 46
          +1
          Quote: verner1967
          in general, these peaceful cities and people were in a country fighting against us.

          It is believed that non-combatants should not be killed regardless of citizenship. For example, claims to Russian foreign policy cannot be grounds for killing you personally.

          Churchill and Harris are a crime because they were directed only against civilians. In contrast to the activity of Spaats, which was also accompanied by the death of the peaceful people, but the goal was the destruction of the military industry.

          Among other things, it was also a very stupid decision. Anglo-Americans destroyed the children of a country that for the next 40 years was their key ally in Europe.

          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          The ruins of the Reichstag satisfied!

          The Reichstag is a government building. The legitimate aim.
        2. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 12: 59
          +6
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          Goering, Slobodan and Hussein were hanged for the bombing of peaceful cities.

          A colleague, more accurate with the facts. Of the specifically listed bombings, only Goering was charged, and only Saddam was hanged. The Hague does not hang at all, someone deceived you.
        3. verner1967
          verner1967 21 January 2018 17: 03
          +3
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          Goering, Slobodan and Hussein were hanged for the bombing of peaceful cities.

          When the verdict was announced at the Nuremberg trials, one American general told the other that if the war had ended differently, they would have been sitting in the dock. The whole question is who won, and the winners are not judged. Do not forget that to bomb the residential quarters of Berlin and Koenigsberg, our DA also flew in the 41st, would fly further, but did not have the strength and range. Do you offer to apologize to the Germans?
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 17: 29
            +4
            Quote: verner1967
            then one American general told another that if the war ended otherwise, then they would be sitting in the dock

            This was said by Curtis LeMay, who led the bombing of Japan, and not at the tribunal, but many times after the war.
            As for Nuremberg, the great Chester Nimitz officially came out in defense of K. Dönitz, who was charged with unlimited submarine warfare, and declared that he was doing exactly the same thing. Largely thanks to Nimitz, Dönitz, whether the president of Germany is poor or poor, got "only" 10 years.
            It is such acts as Nimitsa that inspire respect from me. In contrast to the actions of such scum as A.Ya. Vyshinsky or R.Kh Jackson (as well as their patrons: Stalin and, above all, Roosevelt), concocted this mockery of justice.
            1. verner1967
              verner1967 22 January 2018 06: 13
              +2
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              This was said by Curtis LeMay, who led the bombing of Japan, and not at the tribunal, but many times after the war.

              maybe this is so, and maybe he just repeated what others were talking about. I personally read about another version, but it is not a matter of who said what, but the fact that even American generals admitted that this war was fought, to put it mildly, not according to the rules.
        4. Alf
          Alf 21 January 2018 23: 16
          0
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          Goering, Slobodan and Hussein were hanged for the bombing of peaceful cities.

          And which cities did Slobodan bomb?
    5. bodzu
      bodzu 21 January 2018 14: 32
      +1
      Makarevich, Akhedzhakova, Sobchak and without this do all of the above. Because - geeks, outside the Family.
    6. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 21 January 2018 22: 37
      0
      Of course, we didn’t bomb Berlin, it itself collapsed, and our rocket artillery had individual guidance missiles so as not to catch civilians?
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 21 January 2018 23: 23
        +3
        For your information, the elves of the West destroyed Berlin with their carpet bombing. A rocket artillery hit the enemy’s positions, and not wasted mines on cities. You also write that the Soviet soldiers shot at civilians, but did not shoot at German soldiers am
    7. Prometey
      Prometey 23 January 2018 07: 46
      0
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      The barbarism of civilized Europeans and Americans has no limits. Bombing peaceful cities and killing civilians is actually a war crime

      Why were they peaceful if the countries were at war?
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      But the British and Americans themselves did not suffer any punishment and did not repent

      Winners are not judged.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 24 January 2018 01: 04
        0
        Quote: Prometey
        Why were they peaceful if the countries were at war?

        So what? For you, is this an excuse for the blockade of Leningrad, for example?
  3. mark1
    mark1 20 January 2018 08: 22
    13
    the author said that in England there was such a plane - “Lancaster.” And that’s all.
    1. dumkopff
      dumkopff 20 January 2018 08: 47
      17
      Yes. Not the most informative article. Ideally, add:
      1. The history of development and adoption.
      2. Various options with performance characteristics.
      3. Data on the release and putting into operation by year / month.
      4. The history of combat use. Circumstances of use. Tactics of use and tactics of counteraction. Advantages and disadvantages. Features of operation. Comparison with classmates.
      5. Application statistics. Aircraft in service, number of sorties, dropped bombs, losses. Disaggregated by year / month.
      6. Memoirs of participants / enemies.
      But then some kind of monograph will turn out. Strictly speaking, you can write a series of articles about an airplane with such a story.
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 20 January 2018 11: 05
        10
        I agree, a frankly weak article, even episodes such as the destruction of Tirpitz, the use of super-heavy bombs, and the destruction of dams in the Ruhr area are not mentioned.
      2. combat192
        combat192 20 January 2018 15: 10
        0
        Wikipedia to help you.
      3. hohol95
        hohol95 20 January 2018 17: 38
        +1

        A cycle, a cycle, and there are plenty of books on this bomb.
    2. Cat
      Cat 20 January 2018 08: 53
      +9
      MARK You're right. Sadly, the article is not about anything. If only the performance characteristics were added, the history of creation, specific facts of combat use.
  4. Slon_on
    Slon_on 20 January 2018 08: 27
    +4
    Once I read that “Lancaster” was originally a plane less than mediocre (in a 2-engine version), then 2 more engines were “screwed” and it turned out to be a masterpiece.
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 20 January 2018 08: 53
      +2
      With the Yu-52, the same story was. At first it was designed as a single-engine aircraft, but during tests it became clear that the power of one engine is not enough, and put two more motors on the wings, and it turned out to be an excellent transporter.
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 20 January 2018 12: 21
        +2
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        With the Yu-52, the same story was .....

        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        put two more motors on the wings, and we got a great transporter.

        Not only. The Yu-52 was also a bomber. As such, the Yu-52 was used in Spain, in the civil war.
        “To meet the increased military and civilian orders in 1935, a new ju.52 / 3m-g3e version with 725-horsepower BMW-132A-3 engines, improved radio equipment and bombing spreaders appeared. In addition to the Dessau plant, an assembly line in Bernburg was connected to the supplies, The license was obtained by the Weser Flugzeugbau and the ATG near Leipzig. By the end of 1935, two-thirds of the squadrons of the five Luftwaffe bombing groups, the so-called Merseburg, Finsterwalde, and Gotha airbags, were armed with Ju.52 / 3m-ge and gZe. Fassberg "and" Gibelstadt ". Despite the appearance of an improved Do.23, this proportion did not change until the end of the year. By this time, the air groups were renamed to bomber. Their number had increased to 12, in which 24 squadrons each had 12 three-engine Junkers.

        Converting the Ju.52 / 3m-g3e into a bomber was relatively simple. An open turret with one MG-15 machine gun with 1050 rounds was installed on top. To protect against attacks from below, there was a semi-removable “basket” with a second MG-15 (750 rounds). The "basket" was cleaned and released manually. It was attached to a semi-glazed cabin - the place of the scorer, located between the bomb compartments - two front and rear. Each bomb bay contained a DSAC / 250 cassette for 10 50 kg SC-50 bombs or two 250 kg SC-250 bombs. The maximum bomb load, respectively, was up to 1500kg. A fuel reserve of 2475 liters provided a tactical range of 500 km with a cruising speed of 245 km / h at an altitude of 1000 m. The plane could easily be converted back to transport. "
        http://www.airwar.ru/enc/cww2/ju52.html
    2. Cat
      Cat 20 January 2018 08: 53
      0
      It depends on what you compare it to!
    3. Alf
      Alf 20 January 2018 08: 57
      +5
      Quote: Slon_on
      Once I read that “Lancaster” was originally a plane less than mediocre (in a 2-engine version), then 2 more engines were “screwed” and it turned out to be a masterpiece.

      It was Manchester. And he clearly lacked power.
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 20 January 2018 12: 59
        +2
        There were other engines on Manchester - the 24-cylinder Walcher, which were supposed to produce more than 1700 hp, but due to the lack of capacity, the operational power was limited to 1500. When the question arose of curtailing the project and production at the Avro plant Halifax, an option with four Merlin was quickly developed.
    4. Alf
      Alf 20 January 2018 11: 07
      +4
      Quote: Slon_on
      It turned out a masterpiece.

      I would not say that it was a masterpiece. For a strategist, the ceiling of 8 is not enough, and defensive weapons with machine guns only and only 000 are clearly not so hot. No wonder the British switched to night sorties.
      1. Slon_on
        Slon_on 20 January 2018 11: 21
        +4
        Well, of course, with a “masterpiece”, I turned down, but up to 10 tons of bomb loading is a powerful argument. Especially if you turn dust into cities.
        1. Train
          Train 20 January 2018 11: 55
          0
          yes, a great car was ours over in the Bostons who flew, squealed already from delight, not a car but a fairy tale
        2. Alf
          Alf 20 January 2018 12: 35
          +3
          Quote: Slon_on
          Well, of course, with a “masterpiece”, I turned down, but up to 10 tons of bomb loading is a powerful argument. Especially if you turn dust into cities.

          And who said that Lank raised 10 tons? Usually no more than 2048 kg, 10 tons only if the target is “behind the fence”. Grand Slam raised, but at what cost? The motors are new, the strip goes beyond the horizon, and the shoulder is not very long.
      2. Train
        Train 20 January 2018 11: 55
        +2
        we didn’t have any ...
        1. iouris
          iouris 20 January 2018 12: 03
          +1
          Quote: Zug
          we didn’t have any ...

          Why did you write this?
          1. Train
            Train 20 January 2018 12: 04
            +2
            And about the fact that "this" is not a masterpiece ..
            1. iouris
              iouris 20 January 2018 16: 57
              +4
              "You are not England here, you have to dig deeper."
              If the USSR spent resources "on air war", then resources would not be enough. Stalin and those who planned the course of WWII proceeded from the fact that each individual state does not have enough resources to win and the Americans will decide everything.
              It should be recognized that in the field of aviation technology, the USSR was losing much to both Germany and the "allies." Here the United States had tremendous superiority. But I would strongly advise you not to speak out scornfully of the USSR, whose people made a decisive contribution to the destruction of the military machine of the pan-European Reich, ashamed.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 17: 08
                +3
                Quote: iouris
                greatly lost both Germany and the "allies." Here, the United States had tremendous superiority.

                Nonsense. The American superiority over the Reich, England, and even Japan was industrial, not technical. Their models of the technology of the beginning of the war were mediocre, and their activities in the field of armaments were not very good.

                But they had a lot of this technique.

                Toward the end of the war, they were tightened technically, thanks in large part to limes.
                1. Alf
                  Alf 20 January 2018 18: 27
                  +1
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Toward the end of the war, they were tightened technically, thanks in large part to limes.

                  In general, yes, the Mustang really flew only on Merlin.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 18: 45
                    +1
                    Quote: Alf
                    Mustang really flew only on Merlin.

                    Merlin, the engine of the 36th (in the series) year, was one of the illustrations of the incompetence of the Americans in the interaction of the military and industry. No intelligible attempts to reverse the best for the 40th year of the piston engines in England - Griffon, Saber and Centaurus - which the British themselves could not develop at that time, were made.
                    The second such illustration is the Mustang, created by the manufacturer of training aircraft privately under an English order. "Hap" Arnold and USAC at that time were engaged in the fact that ordered fighters on Alison, already having a doublewasp, and fighters on a doublewasp, already having Merlin.
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 20 January 2018 20: 33
                      0
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      Griffon

                      Actually, Griffon appeared in the 43rd.
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      double-jet fighters, already having Merlin.

                      Which ones ?
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      ordered fighters on Alison, already having a double jet,

                      That's right, do not put all the eggs in one basket.
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 20: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Alf
                        Actually, Griffon appeared in the 43rd.

                        First run November 1939.
                        But the series went much later, including due to Beaverbrook's ban on new developments in favor of Merlin's refinement.
                        Quote: Alf
                        Which ones ?

                        Thunder, of course.
                        Quote: Alf
                        That's right, do not put all the eggs in one basket.

                        When forming the TTZ, they lagged behind the level of their own industry.
                2. iouris
                  iouris 21 January 2018 14: 22
                  +1
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Their models of the technology of the beginning of the war were mediocre, and their activities in the field of armaments were not very good.

                  You do not have a complete picture of this. WWII training in the United States began immediately after the Great Depression. These were the Roosevelt administration, who became president of the United States four times in a row. The state created production infrastructure, which the head of the FBI, Hoover, actually considered as communism. The only thing that prevented the US administration was the isolationism of the Americans. That is why the Japanese were forced to attack Pearl Harbor, and against the Germans the already tested thesis on the obstruction of navigation was used. The Japanese sank unnecessary obsolete battleships, but the president told the admirals that in a year and a half they would have everything.
                  The accelerated deployment of the armed forces on such a scale, of course, does not go without contradictions and blunders, but on the whole it was based on revolutionary technologies. For this, hundreds of leading scientists who, after the war, participated in improving military technologies with the money of the US state budget, were exported from Europe to the United States in advance. It was these technologies that began to be introduced by force into the US civilian industries in the 1960s.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 15: 06
                    0
                    Quote: iouris
                    You do not have a complete picture of this

                    Full? Of course.
                    Quote: iouris
                    WWII training in the United States began immediately after the Great Depression.

                    No. The activities of the FDR administration were unsystematic and extremely inefficient. Despite all its socialist excesses, nothing was done in those things where the government really had to intervene - for example, the mentioned story with the Merlin. There was never any intelligible mobplan in the USA.
                    As for the preparations for the war, it began, like a fire, after Dunkirk, spring-summer of the 40th. What is much worse, the preparation was carried out without the slightest understanding of what is generally required to be done, this explains, for example, the accelerated construction of aircraft and missile defense with almost complete absence of anti-aircraft defense.
                    And until the end of the war, the actions of the Americans were accompanied by a huge amount of trash and assault. That’s at least to take dances with a tambourine around the Duplexcyclone.
                    Quote: iouris
                    the head of the FBI, Hoover, was actually seen as communism.

                    Roosevelt's “New Deal” was not communism, but kronikapitalism, something between Putin's Russia and Chavez's Venezuela. Naturally, not a single sane person liked this. Unfortunately for the USA, the FDR, with all its drawbacks, was a brilliant populist, so it managed to mobilize a sufficient number of unintelligent people for the election.
                    Which, incidentally, puts him in the same row.
                    Quote: iouris
                    Japanese forced to attack

                    They forced you poor bunnies.
                    Quote: iouris
                    with respect to the Germans, the already tested thesis on the obstruction of navigation was used

                    Germany declared war on the United States, if that. Obstructed shipping, not without it.
                    Quote: iouris
                    It was based on revolutionary technology. For this, hundreds of leading scientists were exported from Europe to the United States in advance,

                    Unfortunately, this picture is valid only for the Manhattan project. Which turned out to be a mistake in the long run.
                    Quote: iouris
                    It was these technologies that began to be introduced by force into the US civilian industries in the 1960s.

                    You have very strange ideas about capitalism. "By force", my ass!
                    1. iouris
                      iouris 22 January 2018 01: 36
                      0
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      You have very strange ideas about capitalism. "By force", my ass!

                      After the Bill on Consumer Rights, March 22.03.1962, XNUMX, dozens of agencies were created in the USA that set standards and penalize "private business". To comply with the standards you need to acquire technology, technology is developing the military-industrial complex. Thus, the whole world pays for the defense industry. And where is capitalism in this food chain?
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 22 January 2018 02: 26
                        0
                        Quote: iouris
                        Dozens of agencies that set standards and fine "private business"

                        Here, it turns out how to make scientific and technological progress by hand. Fine huckster a little more, and you go!
                        Colleague, you definitely have very strange ideas about capitalism. In Russia, the activities you described are involved, for example, in Rostekhnadzor. This has nothing to do with progress. I guarantee it.
                        Quote: iouris
                        need to acquire technology, technology is developing the defense industry

                        This is, you know, a lie. Do not confuse Soviet realities with American ones. It happened that the military started something useful for the economy, but more often - on the contrary.
              2. Train
                Train 20 January 2018 23: 53
                0
                And who is derogatory about the USSR? I just said that we didn’t have that either, by the way, the Germans also strongly advised me to do something empty, something that was a fact, whether you like it or not ..
            2. sivuch
              sivuch 21 January 2018 09: 31
              +1
              Something did not understand. If the USSR did not have a massive heavy bomber, then does this make Lancaster a masterpiece?
              1. Train
                Train 21 January 2018 10: 06
                0
                Well, about the B25, the reviews were enthusiastic, as well as about the flying boat of Katalin, well, the pilots praised these cars, the technique amazing according to them, I read from the veterans' words and retell ..
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 12: 51
                  +1
                  Quote: Zug
                  Well, the pilots praised these cars, the technology amazing according to them

                  American technology was designed in a much higher engineering culture and produced in exemplary organized factories. Naturally, she was comfortable, ergonomic, thoughtful. At least in his best samples.
                  1. Train
                    Train 21 January 2018 13: 20
                    0
                    Well, it's on the information, as it is ...
                  2. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 21 January 2018 15: 43
                    0
                    Yes, especially Aero Cobras the only one on which the Russian and German emigrants to the USA did not work.
        2. Razvedka_Boem
          Razvedka_Boem 20 January 2018 13: 56
          +2
          we didn’t have any ...

          There were Pe-8s. Little.
          The development of strategic aviation in the USSR during the war with Germany was not among the priorities. The front needed dive bombers and attack aircraft.
          1. Train
            Train 20 January 2018 16: 58
            0
            that’s just a little ... for strategists it’s like there wasn’t
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 20 January 2018 17: 48
              0
              We used everything that was and could produce - from DB-3 (Il-4), Er-2, Tb-7 (Pe-8) to B-25 Mitchell! “It did not drip” over the US territory, “not much dripped” over the territory of the British Isles! But the USSR was with a large occupied territory! This is the whole point! It was necessary to "sweep the brown plague" from its territory, and for this we need fighters, front-line bombers and attack aircraft!
      3. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 15: 14
        +2
        Quote: Alf
        For a strategist, the ceiling of 8 is not enough, and defensive weapons with machine guns only and only 000 are clearly not so hot. No wonder the British switched to night sorties.

        You judge with the afterlife. Before WWII, the idea was spread that a fighter could not intercept a bomber. The luck of Americans with the Fortress concept is more luck than a well-thought-out topic.
        Before the war, it was believed that a heavy bomber was a dump truck with bombs, bringing and unloading the whole business. Judging by this, Lancaster is an outstanding aircraft, it couldn’t unload so much and the B-29 couldn’t (hooked to the last grand slam, even two, it seemed to work out, but late).
    5. iouris
      iouris 20 January 2018 12: 01
      +1
      Soviet TB-1 and TB-3 are also very similar in appearance. And there were Tu-104, -110, -124 ...
  5. Andrey591
    Andrey591 20 January 2018 11: 57
    +7
    If those who shed tears about the killed Germans during the war, they said this in 1941-45. Do you know what would happen to you? Forgotten how the Nazis bombed from the beginning of the city in the West, and then in the USSR. It's disgusting to read! They there in Germany voted for Hitler and rejoiced in the occupied lands and the destruction of other people, and that's what they got!
    1. Train
      Train 21 January 2018 10: 08
      +3
      all right, and these tears squeaks and snot about poor Dresden and other cities, I’m generally at a loss how the Russians can talk about some kind of barbarism towards those who filled our children with wells in the villages up to the top ..
  6. Curious
    Curious 20 January 2018 18: 14
    +5
    If the author limited himself to one sentence of the type “A four-engine heavy Lancaster bomber was built in the UK”, which was used for night raids on German cities, which killed 600 civilians, the article would not have hit a beat in terms of informational value.
    I propose introducing on the website the marking of articles in accordance with age categories, like films on TV. Suppose, near the title of this article we put the number "7". Everyone understands that the article for the age category is seven years old and younger and does not waste time. I think it’s not difficult and readers will like it.
  7. zombirusrev
    zombirusrev 21 January 2018 10: 41
    +3
    Here is a Kot_Kuzya saying ...;)
    "Yeah! There is no limit to the barbarism of civilized Europeans and Americans. Bombing peaceful cities and killing civilians is actually a war crime, for which, incidentally, Goering was convicted and hanged. But the British and Americans themselves did not suffer any punishment and did not repent. "(with)
    that you can answer him on this opus. German soldiers why went to war .. properly provide their wives and children with slaves, land, etc. in the new eastern possessions .... and so our British allies directly told the German women who had sent their husbands for prey that they had done it in vain. :)) the only way you can wean brave burghers from stupid thoughts. We beat the burghers themselves, and the allies of those who sent them to us.
    1. iouris
      iouris 21 January 2018 14: 12
      +1
      Quote: zombirusrev
      our British allies

      The British allies did not have a land army capable of defeating Germany, and represent an island, i.e. an unsinkable aircraft carrier and a base for landing the US expeditionary force to Europe. In fact, British aviation carried out terrorist retaliation in response to the bombing of British cities. These actions did not have special military significance and could not stop Hitler. Similarly, the American bombing could not force Japan to capitulate. Only the Red Army could grind the armies of the West European Reich and leave Japan without the most powerful land group, which predetermined the outcome of the war.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 14: 29
        +1
        Quote: iouris
        These actions did not have special military significance and could not stop Hitler.

        Above, a user of Dalaylam provided a link to the Lindemann memorandum. A number of figures convinced Churchill that "undermining the demographic potential" is the most rational use of the English military and industrial potential. Now it is quite obvious that this was not only a crime, but also a mistake.
        Quote: iouris
        put Japan without the most powerful land grouping

        In the summer of 45, no military forces outside the Japanese Islands had the slightest significance for the defense of the metropolis.
        Quote: iouris
        to leave Japan without the most powerful land grouping, which predetermined the outcome of the war.

        It so predetermined that in the spring and summer of 45th, 2 governments collapsed in Japan due to the fact that half of the ministers openly demanded immediate surrender. I note that these same people participated in all three governments and in August, finally, achieved their goal. They called KhiN a “gift of heaven” (the expression is attributed to Admiral Yonai, the Minister of the Navy), which allowed him to finally stop this madness. Japanese militarism - it is very Japanese.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 21 January 2018 15: 48
          0
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          In the summer of 45, no military forces outside the Japanese Islands had the slightest significance for the defense of the metropolis.

          The South Sakhalin army had the most direct cover for Hokkaido from the Soviet invasion from the north, the army in Manchuria - strategic importance for raw materials and bacteriological weapons of mass destruction, which were made from the Chinese.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 15: 51
            0
            Quote: DalaiLama
            army in Manchuria - strategic importance for raw materials

            After Okinawa, Korea and the Moon were approximately the same distance from Japan. In terms of logistics, at least.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 21 January 2018 15: 59
              0
              Anything more meaningful?
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 16: 01
                0
                Quote: DalaiLama
                Anything more meaningful?

                From you? No, I’m not waiting.
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 21 January 2018 16: 07
                  0
                  From me it was already, from you it is clear that there will never be.
                  for example here
                  https://topwar.ru/133184-yaponskie-boevye-mashiny
                  .html
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 16: 15
                    0
                    Quote: DalaiLama
                    for example here

                    Is this where you are discussing Japanese jet aircraft and AB Hornet? There is nothing to comment on, I'm not a psychiatrist.
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 21 January 2018 16: 36
                      0
                      Yes, Me-262 replicas delivered to Japan by Nakajima J8N-1 Kikka and others, by the way, it was created against them, like the P-51 Mustang on an English engine, no FN-1 Fireball.
                      They also discussed the fundamental impossibility of landing in Japan from large landing ships, even because of simply kamikaze.
                      Naturally, why on earth should the power change?
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 16: 56
                        +1
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        Yes, Me-262 replicas delivered to Japan by Nakajima J8N-1 Kikka and others, by the way, it was created against them, like the P-51 Mustang on an English engine, no FN-1 Fireball.
                        They also discussed the fundamental impossibility of landing in Japan from large landing ships, even because of simply kamikaze.

                        Yes, yes, well reminded, thanks.
                      2. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 21 January 2018 17: 28
                        0
                        About whose power, and that the BTR-80 from Chukotka crosses to Alaska in the summer, also do not forget.
                      3. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 17: 35
                        +1
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        and that the BTR-80 from Chukotka crosses Alaska in the summer,

                        I hope you personally take part in this experiment. And then you are noisy.
                      4. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 21 January 2018 17: 42
                        0
                        The experiment was set long ago. The question is why wait for this summer? And from you all over the planet it’s bloody and dirty. Therefore, from 1,5 billion Chinese comrades there may be even more noise. Although it looks like 5 million Korean for your eyes is enough.
    2. sd68
      sd68 22 January 2018 02: 59
      0
      Goering committed suicide and no one hung him.
      And the German soldiers went to war because they were mobilized and ordered.
      Like the Soviet ones for the most part.
  8. nnz226
    nnz226 21 January 2018 13: 07
    +4
    Well, killing about 600 000 "peaceful" German residents is not worth much. All of them sent their fathers, brothers, husbands east for estates with submissive Russian slaves. Therefore - "you have to pay for pleasure!". In Stalingrad, only on 1 day of 23 of August 1942 of the year died according to the most minimal estimates of 60 000 civilians. 10% for one day from losses of British raids from 1942 to 1945 year. About at least 600 000 of the Leningrad starvation victims - I just keep silent ...
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 21 January 2018 15: 55
      +1
      How to shop for a new fur coat and candy? They can be killed in war.
      There is such a thing as the laws of war. 680 thousand local civilians, refugees and wounded soldiers in hospitals, this is only in Dresden, and without military necessity. Many more than 2 million died in other German cities. Then the Anglo-Frenchmen still starved 4.7 million Germans.
  9. Alf
    Alf 21 January 2018 23: 13
    0
    Cherry nine,
    Thunderbolt made its first flight on May 6 of the 41st, ordered it even earlier. At that moment in the USA they did not even dream of Merlin.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 23: 43
      0
      Quote: Alf
      ordered it even earlier. At that moment in the USA they did not even dream of Merlin.

      Thunder ordered in the fall of the 40th.

      An agreement with Packard was signed in September 40th, negotiations between the British and Ford on this subject began in the spring. As a result of the war, Packard in the United States and Ford in Britain (the plant in Manchester) produced almost 2/3 of all Merlin (yes, two American companies mastered the engine simultaneously and in parallel, because of the cockroaches of Ford Sr., the engine was produced by its factory in Britain, but not in USA).

      For comparison, an order for a naval fighter with a double jet fighter - the future Corsair - was signed on 11.06.1938/37/XNUMX. The first launch of this engine was the XNUMXth year.
      1. Alf
        Alf 21 January 2018 23: 46
        +1
        They didn’t put all the eggs in one basket, they did the right thing. Moreover, then Merlin gave 1100 mares, and Double immediately gave 2000.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 22 January 2018 00: 35
          0
          Again.
          37th year, davblvasp appears.
          Spring 38th, competition for a new naval fighter. The car is ordered on a doublevasp.
          January 39th, competition for an army fighter. The P-40 Tommakhok wins, the first major order is on April 26, 39.
          The middle of the 40th year, the army realized that something had gone wrong. They recall Ripablik, which put up AP-39 with a twinwasp for the 4th year’s contest, instructing him to urgently remodel it for doublewasp.
          Meanwhile, in March the 40th, President of the North American James H. Kindelberger convinced the English purchasing committee that the P-40 was shit. On April 10, Limes give him an order to design a new fighter, also with Alison, who starts jogging on October 11 and takes off on October 26 of the 40th year. For 6, s * a, months, the manufacturer of training aircraft, Nord American, designed and built his first fighter, the best fighter of the war.
          More precisely, he became the best after 2 years, in July 42, when to the english it occurred to me to put Merlin on him.
          Quote: Alf
          Moreover, then Merlin gave 1100 mares, and Double immediately gave 2000.

          Merlin XX on 100 octane gave out 1490 hp. in combat emergency mode. June 40th. This is a third more than Alison standing on the Mustang.
          In this case, doublevasp began to issue 2K in the version of R-2800-8, which appeared in November 41st. For the 40th year, R-2800-5 1850 hp was available. That double engine that we usually have in mind - with the General Electric C-1 turbocharger - is generally the 42nd year.
          Briefly thought. In the late 30s, USAC and Arnold personally spread rotter fighters from the Far East in favor of JO, losing the opportunity to build an American FW, since it was the Americans who had the Far East. In the 40th, he gave the back at the very moment when a good (but not the best) JO appeared on the horizon. And rushed to the very 43rd year.
  10. shuravi
    shuravi 22 January 2018 00: 47
    +1
    By the way, about the cruelty of the allies. There is a bike on the net for idiots about how Zhukov sent infantry to minefields in order to clear the way for tanks, which is nonsense in itself. But how many people know about the bombing of allies in several echelons? It was believed that losses from their battles will be no more than 5%.




    1. sd68
      sd68 22 January 2018 03: 05
      0
      yes, it sounds stupid - under a man an anti-tank mine will not explode.
      and if you take it really, not your version?
      Zhukov introduced the American general Dwight Eisenhower to the Soviet method of overcoming minefields: "Approaching the minefield, our infantry conducts an attack as if this field were not there.
      The losses caused by anti-personnel mines, we consider only equal to those that we would have suffered from artillery and machine-gun fire if the Germans covered the area not with mines, but with a significant number of troops. "" I vividly imagined, ”commented Eisenhower’s arguments. "- what would happen if some American or British commander adhered to this practice, and even more vividly imagined what the soldiers of any of our divisions would say if we acted in this way."
      1. Dalailama
        Dalailama 22 January 2018 09: 57
        0
        The main losses were from mortar mines.
      2. Dalailama
        Dalailama 22 January 2018 10: 14
        0
        A tank develops less ground pressure than humans.
      3. shuravi
        shuravi 22 January 2018 10: 58
        +1
        Quote: sd68
        yes, it sounds stupid - under a man an anti-tank mine will not explode.
        and if you take it really, not your version?


        You are overexcited. The version is not mine.
        As for the revelations of Eisenhower, there are great doubts about the authenticity of his words.
        It is known that the main task of minefields is not to stop the advancing, but to delay them, slow down the pace. Thus giving precious time to the defenders, to make the necessary rebuilding, tighten reserves and so on.
        Therefore, the question was for all strategists how to overcome minefields on the move.
        Moreover, the possible places of delay for the advancing are usually shot in advance by artillery.
        And we should not forget that the offensive is always prepared, including for overcoming minefields.


        In addition, there are alternative mine clearance methods, such as shelling minefields during artillery fire.
    2. sd68
      sd68 22 January 2018 03: 14
      0
      Claims to Eisenhower

      Life Magazine with an excerpt from the Crusade.

      something like that
      Marshal Zhukov gave me a matter-of-fact statement of his practice, which was roughtly 'There are two kinds of mines; one is the personnel mine and the other is the vehicular mine. When we come to a minefield our infantry attacks exactly as if it were not there. The losses we get from personnel mines we consider only equal to those we would have gotten from machine guns and artillery if the Germans had chosen to defend that particular area with strong bodies of troops instead of with minefields.
      1. shuravi
        shuravi 22 January 2018 20: 32
        +1
        Quote: sd68
        Claims to Eisenhower


        The Americans have always lied.
    3. Dalailama
      Dalailama 22 January 2018 09: 56
      0
      When it was not applied, losses exceeded 20%
      1. shuravi
        shuravi 22 January 2018 20: 33
        0
        Quote: DalaiLama
        When it was not applied, losses exceeded 20%



        Will you give evidence?
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 22 January 2018 20: 40
          0
          Raid on Schweinfurt and Regensburg, attack on Wilhelmshaven and Helgoland.
          5 and 10% they lost from the actions of anti-aircraft guns and fighters when they flew with separation, sometimes falling under their own bombs. Acceptable was considered 5%.
          1. shuravi
            shuravi 23 January 2018 01: 54
            0
            Quote: DalaiLama
            Raid on Schweinfurt and Regensburg, attack on Wilhelmshaven and Helgoland.
            5 and 10% they lost from the actions of anti-aircraft guns and fighters when they flew with separation, sometimes falling under their own bombs. Acceptable was considered 5%.



            You are incorrigible in your ignorance. 5% is a loss only from own bombs. But the losses from air defense did not disappear. Bombed in several echelons for other reasons.
            1. Alf
              Alf 23 January 2018 21: 38
              +1
              Quote: shuravi
              But the losses from air defense did not disappear.

              The task of the raid was to simultaneously hit the bearing factory in Schweinfurt and the aircraft factory in Regensburg. The raid caused significant damage to the intended targets, but the losses were unacceptably large: of the 376 "flying fortresses" participating in the raid, 60 were shot down and 11 more were damaged so that they could not be restored. The main reason for the high losses was insufficient air cover.
  11. NF68
    NF68 24 January 2018 18: 12
    0
    It is not clear why the British did not install high-altitude engines with 2-stage superchargers on these bombers. This would complicate the conditions for the Germans to deal with these bombers.
    1. Alf
      Alf 24 January 2018 21: 07
      +1
      Quote: NF68
      It is not clear why the British did not install high-altitude engines with 2-stage superchargers on these bombers.

      Did they have them?
      1. NF68
        NF68 24 January 2018 22: 11
        0
        Quote: Alf
        Did they have them?


        The ultimate were. Both earlier and in larger numbers than the Germans have the same engines. Rolls-Royce Merlin 60 Series. Them on Spitfire MK. 9 has been installed since 1942
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Merlin#
        Basic_component_overview_ (Merlin_61).

        The Rolls-Royce Griffons, also starting from the 60 series, were still tall. They have been installed on Spitfire MK.14 since 1943 of the year. And high-altitude Merlins were also installed on Mosquito.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Griffon
        #Specifications_ (Griffon_65)
        And the American Packards V-1650-clones of the Merlin among the British, too.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_V-1650_Merl
        in
        For some reason only heavy British bombers didn’t get such engines.
        1. Alf
          Alf 24 January 2018 22: 41
          +1
          British engine plants are also non-rubber. Why on Lancaster, and not only on them, for example, on Bofayter, there was such a mess with motors?
          1. NF68
            NF68 25 January 2018 19: 24
            +1
            Quote: Alf
            British engine plants are also non-rubber. Why on Lancaster, and not only on them, for example, on Bofayter, there was such a mess with motors?


            To produce high-altitude engines with 2-speed mechanical superchargers is not as difficult as high-altitude engines with turbochargers driven by exhaust gases. This primarily concerns the production of turbochargers for which expensive heat-resistant materials were needed. Both the Americans and the British could produce 2-speed mechanical superchargers even more than turbochargers. Apparently the British who decided to use their heavy bombers mostly at night decided that they needed enough engines for medium heights.

            By design, single-stage and 2-stage superchargers are similar in design. An example is the superchargers for German engines:



            Fig. 1. Superchargers of various options of Jumo-213 engines. On the left, medium-height single-stage for Jumo-213 A and Jumo-213С. Right two-stage high-rise for Jumo-213 E and Jumo-213 F.
            1. Alf
              Alf 25 January 2018 21: 05
              +2
              Quote: NF68
              Apparently the British who decided to use their heavy bombers mostly at night decided that they needed enough engines for medium heights.

              The British decided to bomb at night not because of a good life, but because during the day the ME-109 left the British strategists little chance.
              On the first point. I said that British aircraft factories are not rubber in terms of the number of products manufactured, but you gave me a lecture on the construction of superchargers. This is called the elderberry garden, and the uncle in Kiev.
              1. NF68
                NF68 25 January 2018 21: 35
                0
                Quote: Alf
                The British decided to bomb at night not because of a good life, but because during the day the ME-109 left the British strategists little chance.


                FW-190 A-7-9 left even less chances. But when the allies appeared in large numbers, the British escort fighters, just like the Americans, could bomb in the daytime. But the British did not go for it.

                I said that British aircraft factories are not rubber in terms of the number of products manufactured, but you gave me a lecture on the construction of superchargers. This is called the elderberry garden, and the uncle in Kiev.


                If the British factories produced a large number of aircraft engines for the "Lancaster" for medium heights, then they could gradually switch to the production of high-altitude engines, which was not particularly difficult for the British industry. And for American industry, this was not a difficult matter either. That's why I posted an image with one and 2's step superchargers. But for some reason the Allies did not go for it, although the American B-17 and B-24, after they were escorted by escort fighters, were successfully bombed during the day. And later, when the British created the Lincoln Strategic Bomber:

                then they did not begin to use high-altitude engines:

                As a temporary measure, they decided to install a second-hand Lincoln - the Merlin 66 engines taken from the Spitfire LF MF.VIII fighters kept in storage. But the Merlin fighters did not have power take-offs for driving the hydraulic systems of rifle towers, and therefore these motors were installed in external positions, keeping the engines of the 85 model closer to the fuselage. New Australian-made Merlin 51 engines began to be installed from the 102 aircraft, and some aircraft of the early series were equipped with them during repairs. These engines were quite reliable and developed the power of 1650 hp, but they were inferior to the Packard Merlin in altitude performance. As a result, the working ceiling of the Australian Lincoln was only 8230 m versus 9754 m for modification B Mk.II.

                http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/lincoln.html

                Although by this time, without any doubts, it was clear to everyone that high-altitude engines for such bombers were preferable, and in the 1944 year it was no longer difficult for the British to adapt high-altitude Merlins for use on this new bomber.
  12. KERMET
    KERMET 6 February 2018 07: 30
    0
    Quote: verner1967
    ... And here I like the words of the hero of the film "Only Old Men Go to Battle": "Satisfied with the ruins of the Reichstag!"

    Notice the Reichstag, not Berlin
  13. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 9 February 2018 21: 00
    0
    A little bombed, not wiser, but sorry!
  14. alexxxz
    alexxxz 7 March 2018 13: 40
    0
    What nonsense about non-combatants is spreading here?
    We have an honorary title - a veteran of the rear. Rear veterans are equated with war veterans. Our whole country worked in the interests of the army and the front. 14-year-old boys fought at the machine tools, turning the shells of mines for mortars. One of these boys was my grandfather. Those. every city in our country fought in its own way, the country's weapons were not only rifles, machine guns, guns and tanks, but also lathes and other means of production. Who were these 14 year old boys? Non-combatants? Is it because they didn't have firearms in their hands? Well, nonsense! .. But in Germany, do you think it was different? In each locality there was some kind of production that produced military products. Note, boots, mittens, uniform pants, hell - this is the same weaponry as a rifle! How long can a soldier fight without boots? So I ask you to stop all this nonsense about the peaceful cities of a warring country. The Germans also bombed our cities in order to: destroy industrial facilities, moral and psychological oppression, in order to break the will to resist.
  15. VictorZhivilov
    VictorZhivilov 17 May 2018 17: 57
    0
    I sting flying on the wings of the night!
    wassat