Military Review

Tests Su-57 with the new engine will last about three years

140
Flight tests of the fifth-generation fighter Su-57 (PAK FA) with a new engine are expected to last about three years, according to Interfax, a statement by the Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Denis Manturov.


Tests of the second stage engine (for the PAK FA) can last about three years.
- said Manturov.

Tests Su-57 with the new engine will last about three years


December 5 in the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation reported that the fifth-generation fighter Su-57 made the first flight with the engine of the second stage. The flight went smoothly and lasted 17 minutes.

Earlier in the United Engine Corporation (UEC) reported that a promising engine, fifth-generation powerplant for the Su-57 allows the aircraft to develop supersonic cruising speed.

In early January, 2018, it became known that the tenth prototype of the Su-57 fighter began to flight tests. Until recently, nine samples with the engine of the "first stage" participated in flight tests.

According to Interfax, the delivery of the first 12 Su-57 to the military from the installation batch can begin as early as this year.

The Su-57 (previously referred to as the T-50) first flew in January 2010 and was presented to the public at the MAKS-2011 air show. At the same time, a new provisioning infrastructure and a set of aviation means of destruction (including those placed in the inner compartment).
Photos used:
www.youtube.com
140 comments
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  1. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 17 January 2018 11: 54
    15
    Step, step ... No need to rush. This plane is done for a long time ...
    1. newcomer
      newcomer 17 January 2018 12: 07
      13
      Well, where to rush. the supply of the first 12 vehicles will be completed no earlier than 20, in the meantime it is planned to saturate the VKS with the SU 30SM / 34 / 35S and MIG35 / 31BM machines, instead of aging models.
    2. tchoni
      tchoni 17 January 2018 12: 49
      13
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Step, step ... No need to rush. This plane is done for a long time ...

      Exactly))) "tarapis is not necessary" ... You look, while the essence and the matter, the requirements will change, the generation will change and there will be no need to suffer with serial production ...
      1. Cat Marquis
        Cat Marquis 17 January 2018 12: 53
        12
        Well, yes, as there in the parable of Nasruddin about the donkey and the padishah ..... wink
        1. inkass_98
          inkass_98 17 January 2018 13: 06
          10
          Yeah, just like yours with a light tank or F-35.
          1. tchoni
            tchoni 17 January 2018 13: 16
            13
            Quote: inkass_98
            Yeah, just like yours with a light tank or F-35.

            While they were cutting light fy35 they had almost two hundred f22 standing in service.
      2. dvvv
        dvvv 17 January 2018 15: 11
        0
        yeah and rename the Su-57 to F-117
    3. zivXP
      zivXP 17 January 2018 13: 34
      +1
      This will not last, but may last, said this official. Or they can finish faster - it is read between the lines. There is a new move, probably there are a lot of new solutions. You need to check everything. And how quickly it will be put into production depends on what the results will be.
      1. dvvv
        dvvv 17 January 2018 15: 12
        +4
        Nope, will last and will certainly last!
      2. tchoni
        tchoni 17 January 2018 15: 30
        +5
        They will last, and even drag out. Be calm.
  2. Magic archer
    Magic archer 17 January 2018 11: 54
    23
    While we will adopt the 5 generation aircraft, the Americans will take the sixth .... We lag behind a lot ... The nineties still go around! Thanks to Gorbi and EBN
    1. Vasya Vassin
      Vasya Vassin 17 January 2018 11: 59
      19
      It’s okay if they have the fifth weightier than gold, then the sixth will weigh like bruliks. Let them do, build ... even ... both two pieces!
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 17 January 2018 12: 03
        13
        Quote: Vasya Vassin
        It’s okay if they have the fifth weightier than gold, then the sixth will weigh like bruliks. Let them do, build ... even ... both two pieces!

        85mln $ for F-35A is not so expensive.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 January 2018 12: 10
          15
          + 70 billion for development, you forgot to add
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 17 January 2018 12: 23
            23
            Lockheed Martin customers (including the Pentagon) do not care
            how much R&D cost. Interesting price "in the store."
            When I buy a smartphone, I do not ask how many billions
            invested in its development. I do not give a damn.
            1. newcomer
              newcomer 17 January 2018 12: 31
              +9
              this is probably why the Yankees forced the satellites to first chip in with the whole world on a “smartphone”, then they forced them to buy the whole world.
              1. _Jack_
                _Jack_ 17 January 2018 12: 42
                12
                so in the end everyone threw themselves in and bought everything, and the final price is quite normal, what's the problem?
              2. _Jack_
                _Jack_ 17 January 2018 13: 18
                +5
                The fact is that modern weapons, such as 5-generation fighters, require huge funds and development time. Russia is not the USSR, our economy is insignificant in comparison with the economy of the USSR, we are already pulling such projects with great difficulty. Now in the world they are on the shoulder of the United States and China, and then they are stalling and the budget is several times higher. Therefore, do not be surprised that the SU-57 takes so long.
                1. newcomer
                  newcomer 17 January 2018 13: 27
                  +1
                  Well, you almost answered your question: “What is the problem?” the problem is just about the whole project cost and what you got in the end. Compared to ours, it’s cheaper at times from the 35th and from the 22nd. Naturally, with the release of the series, our cost will also decrease, but a huge difference from the fki will remain. ours, according to various sources, will be from 80 to 100 million. dollars but after the release of the series the price will go down. in addition, no matter how Indians swear, the FFA will buy, this will also play at the price of SU57.
                  1. _Jack_
                    _Jack_ 17 January 2018 13: 40
                    +9
                    Here the keywords "is" and "will be", when it will be, then we will compare. 35 is now and as if it were not criticized, it is actively purchased by different countries, which means the project was a success, and when ours is, then we will compare.
                    Not only do the United States have hundreds of times more resources to develop it than ours, but other countries invested in the project, and they create masses for the aircraft with their orders, so the price will continue to fall. In these conditions, it is extremely difficult for us to compete with this project, the only hope for cooperation with India.
                    1. newcomer
                      newcomer 17 January 2018 13: 48
                      +2
                      Well, about active purchases, I have already spoken out. about “there are and will be” I do not agree. SU57 has existed for a long time, another issue is the presence in the videoconferencing. taking into account all the troubles with fkoy after being accepted into the Air Force, it’s better for us to be ill at the test level and in part go ready. Well, why rush? SU35 does not cope well with all fkami. MIG35 hurries to help him. in the end, we can afford to linger slightly with 57m.
                      1. _Jack_
                        _Jack_ 17 January 2018 13: 50
                        +3
                        SU57 has existed for a long time, another issue is the presence in the videoconference.

                        Flying tests of a fifth-generation fighter Su-57 (PAK FA) with a new engine is expected to last about three years
                      2. newcomer
                        newcomer 17 January 2018 14: 03
                        +1
                        why are you so? the first machines of the installation batch are expected this year.
                      3. Don
                        Don 17 January 2018 22: 54
                        +2
                        Quote: newbie
                        SU35 does not cope well with all the focks. MIG35 hurries to help him. in the end, we can afford to linger a bit with 57m.

                        And with what fright are you exposing the Su-35 against the F-35? The direct opponent of Su35, in the event of hostilities, is a fifth-generation heavy fighter to gain air superiority of the F-22 Raptor, of which there are 185 units in operation, EMNIP. It is under their cover that the F-35 will act.
                2. ZVladimir222
                  ZVladimir222 18 January 2018 14: 36
                  +1
                  - Well, what are you talking nonsense! What are the huge costs? to assemble this glued carbon fiber plywood on a template?
                  Do you know that in some places it is used as fibromaterial?
                  Fiberglass and basalt fiber! Its cost is like mineral wool! Cheap stuff.
                  UKM, of course, is a little expensive. And glue is not cheap. However, not gold. All these technologies have been tested at Buran.
                  Gluing is much easier than boiling with argon, as the MiG-25th did. However managed.
                  The engine is old, about the same years of birth. Well, with modern Pribluda type microcontrollers (digital control system) and the famous nozzle UVT.
                  This UVT nozzle was also born back in those years. A complex and generally controversial apparatus with a small resource. Here they brought him to mind for a long time. And soon they will bring more. Do you know why? Because for 25 years they have not done anything (and now they do not and will not do it!). Because all the plants are in constant and eternal "Italian strike". That's because they don’t want to pay. All the money allocated by the state is plundered by the authorities. And direct executors from an engineer to a cleaner are paid a penny, throwing a bone like a hungry dog.

                  So no there
                  [/ quote] huge funds and development time [quote]
                  and not at all necessary.
                  There was a time. Omitted. But even today - give engineers and hard workers a decent salary and hire a normal staff (and not two disabled people per workshop) - they will bring him to mind in two years.
                3. ZVladimir222
                  ZVladimir222 18 January 2018 14: 41
                  +1
                  - There is really one significant nuance.
                  That's the trouble with electronics! But this is a separate article. This is characteristic of all our air forces. For any aircraft. That's why no one wants to buy our planes very much. India and China take. Because they have a filling - for the most part their own. A glider with engines has nothing to do with it. He only interests them. Yes weapons.
                  Electronics - it is also all the same in Africa now - Chinese. With a large coefficient of components and technologies born in the past in the West or there in Japan. Not the best copies. The Chinese are just starting to do everything themselves from scratch. Something is not very successful.
                  Of course, our domestic avionics leaves much to be desired and the West in this sense we will never catch up. Even DDR memory modules (what are they 2-3-4 already?) Do not have their own. And nobody will do them. We collect from what horrible. Of all the junk with the help of three pensioners and hundreds of young programmers throughout the country, those who have not yet fled to other industries or abroad.
                  For PAKF, they tried to attract India to create avionics. Well, what kind of country is India!
                  Although it is full of programmers, does it have a full cycle?
                  They buy a lot in Israel. Including SAM and ATGM.
                  So even though investments are needed here, nobody is going to do them. time is being pulled for completely different reasons.
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 January 2018 18: 30
              +1
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Interesting price "in the store."
              When I buy a smartphone, I do not ask how many billions
              invested in its development. I do not give a damn.

              There is one caveat. When you buy a smartphone, the cost of its development is in its price. And when you talk about the F-35 worth $ 85 million, you are talking ONLY about the price of production. Because R&D is already funded and money spent on it. That is, one should not assume that civilian and military products have the same pricing
          2. Korax71
            Korax71 17 January 2018 12: 35
            +2
            Yes, it seems like among the bourgeoisie such things always enter the final cost of the product. Let's see how much 57 will cost the army.
            1. Herman 4223
              Herman 4223 17 January 2018 15: 02
              +2
              Su-35, it cost two billion rubles (several years ago), the 57th will probably be a little more expensive. The most important thing is that it is for our own rubles for us, and we can print them for such a thing.
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 January 2018 18: 33
              +1
              Quote: Korax71
              Yes, it seems that among bourgeois such things are always included in the final cost of a product

              Such things among the bourgeoisie NEVER enter the final cost of MILITARY production.
              Because the US budget has already paid for R&D - why would he pay them a second time, in the price of an airplane?
              When an American (or our company, it doesn’t matter with us) wins a tender for the development and supply of a new product, then R&D and finished product estimates are formed separately and paid separately.
          3. Skifotavr
            Skifotavr 17 January 2018 17: 22
            +2
            The Americans can come up with their F-35 and not such a price - they have a printing dollar machine and they print these pieces of paper as much as they like, without worrying that they are not backed up by anything, but we pay for candy wrappers with our sweat and blood.
          4. Vadim237
            Vadim237 18 January 2018 00: 30
            0
            Of course, 70 billion - the aircraft was designed and built from scratch from scratch, plus add good salaries to engineers and workers, as well as R&D for the future.
        2. Lexus
          Lexus 17 January 2018 12: 33
          +5
          85mln $ for F-35A is not so expensive.

          A small nuance - $ 85 million. - WITHOUT ENGINE! Plus life cycle maintenance work, which costs another 1,5 aircraft and is paid for when buying an aircraft. For Israel, as the recipient of annual US aid, $ 3 billion may not be expensive. American marketing - he is.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 17 January 2018 13: 18
            +8
            "$ 85 million - WITHOUT ENGINE!" ////

            No. The price of the last installment for the Pentagon is with the engine.
            Which costs separately 11 million dollars ordinary and 14 million vertical lines.
            Israel ordered theirs until the "cheapening", which knocked out Lockheed Trump,
            and the plane costs us more - 95 million (including the engine).
            And we have our own service (under an agreement with Lockheed), on the spot.
            1. dvvv
              dvvv 17 January 2018 15: 14
              0
              yeah ... they’ll cut their services ... they also have to eat their own!
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 17 January 2018 17: 21
                +4
                We have our own qualified aviation technology, which
                Lockheed trusts (from the experience of servicing F-16).
                Some countries are not so sure of themselves: they either cause
                specialists to themselves, or send planes to the Lockheed service center
                (in Italy he seems).
                1. Grits
                  Grits 17 January 2018 19: 32
                  +1
                  We have our own qualified aviation technology, which
                  Lockheed trusts

                  Most recently, you wrote that without specialists from Americosia you can’t do anything with the F-35, which “the crow damaged”
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 17 January 2018 23: 00
                    +2
                    This was a special case: damage to the steel cover. Neither F-16 nor F-15 had carbon and stealth layers. It’s not shameful to learn new things.
                2. Lexus
                  Lexus 17 January 2018 22: 41
                  +2
                  The Italian state-controlled company FACO was created jointly by Lockheed Martin Corporation (25% participation and the Italian company Alenia Aermacchi (part of the Finmeccanica group, 75% participation) and is the only non-American assembly site for the F-35, which began functioning in 2013. It is planned to be in the Cameri to assemble all F-35 aircraft intended for acquisition by Italy (now it is planned to purchase 60 F-35A and 30 ship F-35Bs) and the Netherlands (now it is planned to purchase 37 serial F-35A aircraft), and, it is possible, in the future for other operators .

                  In addition, FACO will be the main hub for the maintenance and repair of F-35 aircraft in Europe, including the US armed forces. Along with the assembly of F-35 aircraft in Cameri, Alenia Aermacchi also acts as Lockheed Martin contractor for the production of F-35 wing kit elements (now it has contracts for 835 sets), and in general the Italian industry was subcontracted by April 2015 under the F-35 program contracts for $ 826 million

                  Yes, in Italy.
        3. Alexey Sommer
          Alexey Sommer 17 January 2018 13: 27
          +1
          Dear, is this taking into account the engine?
          1. Alexey Sommer
            Alexey Sommer 17 January 2018 13: 28
            +1
            "According to him, the cost of one aircraft in 2019-2020 will fall to $ 85 million (without an engine), that is, it will become less than the price of any fourth-generation fighter in the world."
            https://vpk.name/news/171999_stoimost_f35_snova_n
            euklonno_snizhaetsya.html
            Pay attention, will fall!
            that is, in a future that has not yet arrived and without an engine.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 17 January 2018 14: 56
              +3
              Trump rushed Lockheed with promises to drop the price,
              and they did not argue smile . Pentagon already bought from Lockheed
              several dozens of F-35A at 85 million apiece, including the engine.
              1. Alexey Sommer
                Alexey Sommer 17 January 2018 16: 36
                +1
                I would like a link.
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 17 January 2018 17: 16
                  +3
                  Deal for 90 combat jets prices each plane at $ 94.6 million each, a 7.3% drop
                  https://www.wsj.com/articles/pentagon-reaches-new
                  -deal-with-lockheed-martin-for-f-35-jets-14861473
                  16

                  The average batch price of 90 aircraft is 95 million apiece.
                  But there are both F-35B and F-35C inside the deal - they are both more expensive than 100 million apiece. And the F-35A - the simplest, come out at 85 million.
                  The engine is isolated separately in the price tag only for foreign customers. For the Pentagon, he is "inside." This is for the convenience of settlements. Since Italy, Japan (in the future - others) assemble planes at their plants. And engines are sent to them from the United States at a price of 11-14 million apiece.
                  1. Alexey Sommer
                    Alexey Sommer 17 January 2018 17: 18
                    +1
                    Link does not exist.
                    Well, the type no longer exists.
      2. Star
        Star 17 January 2018 12: 24
        +4
        Do not forget that the machine printing the currency is with them. And that for us an unbearable burden for them so ... we will take more money from the whole world.
      3. dvvv
        dvvv 17 January 2018 15: 13
        +1
        urgently need to weigh the Su-57 and find out the quotes for gold!
    2. Solomon Kane
      Solomon Kane 17 January 2018 12: 05
      +5
      Nothing, nothing, the bird will rise on the wing, Israel will buy more .....
      1. bouncyhunter
        bouncyhunter 17 January 2018 12: 13
        +8
        Kostya, hi! hi
        Quote: Solomon Kane
        Israel will buy more .....

        What the hell? They also have a "super-duper" Fu-35. lol
        1. Solomon Kane
          Solomon Kane 17 January 2018 12: 20
          +4
          Pasha! Salute, my friend !!!! hi
          It seems that their brains "mature" no longer acquire a bunch of "flying iron" for more than 80 lyamy "Baku" ..... wink
          1. bouncyhunter
            bouncyhunter 17 January 2018 12: 30
            +4
            You think so ? But I'm not sure ... recourse
            1. Solomon Kane
              Solomon Kane 17 January 2018 12: 36
              +4
              Well, a fair wind to them ........
              1. bouncyhunter
                bouncyhunter 17 January 2018 12: 58
                +3
                I completely agree, Kostya. yes
          2. NEOZ
            NEOZ 17 January 2018 12: 35
            +1
            I think that they are "buying" not on their own ... but on the allocated financial assistance from the USA ...
        2. Zhelezyakin
          Zhelezyakin 17 January 2018 13: 05
          +2
          It seems to me that these are cars of a completely different class. Drying closer to the F-22 (fighter for gaining superiority in the air), F-35 multi-functional (something between A10 and F-16)
          1. bouncyhunter
            bouncyhunter 17 January 2018 13: 11
            +2
            Quote: Zhelezyakin
            It seems to me that these are cars of a completely different class.

            And there is . Does Israel need a heavy fighter?
    3. okko077
      okko077 17 January 2018 12: 09
      21
      We do not have and will not have a 5th generation aircraft, because we do not have Combat Information Systems, which should include such an aircraft ... We do not even have elements of such systems and there is no concept of such systems in general. no ... We have not yet grown up to such an aircraft, we do not need it, it’s too early .... First we need to create a system which should include such an aircraft and as part of which it can become a 5th generation aircraft, and before that it will remain unclaimed a very modern expensive toy for the military, who do not know how to use it ....
      1. Nasrat
        Nasrat 17 January 2018 12: 23
        +4
        So what the Russian Defense Ministry tells us:

        Military Automated Information System:

        Five classes of A.I.S. VN, subdivided into the corresponding types: automated command and control systems; automated weapon control systems (see. Automated command and control system for troops and weapons)decision support systems; automated information and computing systems (information and calculation systems; design automation systems; problem-oriented simulation systems; modeling centers); automated information and reference systems (automated directories and catalogs; automated office work systems; automated archives; electronic maps of the area); automated training systems.
      2. Alexey Sommer
        Alexey Sommer 17 January 2018 13: 33
        +2
        You explain to us dark about BIUS.
        Who has it, what are its functions? When were they created?
      3. BABAY22
        BABAY22 17 January 2018 13: 53
        +1
        Dear okko077, you are probably in the topic, then explain your words about "we have no idea about such systems in general ..."
        If you believe your words, then on the old su-27 there is no TKS-2-27, is this all a myth?
        1. Lock36
          Lock36 17 January 2018 19: 01
          +1
          He personally has no idea.
      4. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 17 January 2018 15: 12
        +1
        Do you or we don’t have this? What our military does not know explain in more detail so that it becomes clear to everyone, open dark eyes to the black truth to us.
      5. ZVladimir222
        ZVladimir222 18 January 2018 14: 48
        0
        - In general, now they talk a lot about generations.
        Where is the boundary of these same generations?
        Tell me: what generation is B-2?
        What are the signs of generations?
        Maybe stealth? So the Yenisei radar sees him perfectly. She herself is such an old dense generation, scary to say! Raspletin himself remembers. And he’s from me himself for two generations. And modern students and graduates are a generation from me!
    4. Hammerlock
      Hammerlock 17 January 2018 12: 18
      0
      Yes, even the 7th generation. their 5th bullshit
    5. Kent0001
      Kent0001 17 January 2018 12: 35
      +7
      The 90s ended 17 years ago. Enough of that already.
      1. krokodil25
        krokodil25 17 January 2018 15: 48
        0
        Quote: Kent0001
        The 90s ended 17 years ago. Enough of that already.

        But the consequences remained.
      2. ZVladimir222
        ZVladimir222 18 January 2018 14: 53
        +2
        - Yes, no 90s ended.
        As the lawlessness was in the country, it remained. As the bandits and thieves ruled, they remained.
        Someone was buried, someone is fattening. As our country and the defense industry with the army breathed and fell apart, this process continues.
        Holes are being patched - and the country is agonizing. The Nazis are already in Kharkov and Lysychansk.
        In the 90s such a terrible dream would not have dreamed.
        Even Yeltsin would have strangled them.
  3. Teberii
    Teberii 17 January 2018 11: 54
    +2
    Another 3 years, so when exactly will go into the series.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 17 January 2018 12: 19
      +1
      In a series he will go this year. More precisely, mass production has already begun.
  4. Gogia
    Gogia 17 January 2018 12: 04
    +2
    Damn, how much they talked about the modular design. If our aviation industry worked this way during the Second World War, I don’t know what this would lead to.
    1. allaykbar
      allaykbar 17 January 2018 12: 17
      +6
      then the aircraft were made of plywood and thousands. to compare the incomparable is not from a great mind.

      engine test for the Su-57 is not a piston engine test.
      1. ZVladimir222
        ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 22: 51
        +2
        - Plywood, it is not very different from fiberglass impregnated with epoxy!
        And these engines are designed and tested back in 1988!
        Only the electronic filling is new. Chinese
        So who has a big mind and someone so-so (obscene on this site to talk like that) is another open question!
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 17 January 2018 22: 57
          +5
          Quote: ZVladimir222
          And these engines are designed and tested back in 1988!

          Brave if you please?
          You will not be able to prove, as I understand it.
          Would you tie that ... hysteria. You already well, a lot negative
          1. ZVladimir222
            ZVladimir222 18 January 2018 00: 36
            +1
            - Well, why. There is evidence. experts understand this. You are not familiar.
            And you do not bring any arguments. emotions alone: ​​"rave, tie."
            In general - one word.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 18 January 2018 06: 07
              +7
              Quote: ZVladimir222
              And these engines are designed and tested back in 1988!

              Quote: ZVladimir222
              There is evidence

              In their studio, why are you hiding them?
              Quote: ZVladimir222
              experts understand this. You don't know

              You see, la ... In areas in which I am a specialist, I undertake to explain anything in a finite time to a person with training at the level of the senior group of the kindergarten.
              And this is normal.
              So the excuse "experts understand" does not roll.
              There is something to confirm (about 1988, og) - forward. No - drop it ... hysteria.
              Quote: ZVladimir222
              In general - one word

              You.
              That’s the way it is so far yes
              1. ZVladimir222
                ZVladimir222 18 January 2018 13: 26
                +1
                “So I say.” Diarrhea is one verbal and not a word in essence.
                Go to another site.
                They talk about weapons here.
                Instead of psychological experiments or they are engaged in Scientology.
                1. bk316
                  bk316 18 January 2018 18: 22
                  +2
                  Go to another site.

                  Granddaughter, didn’t you get the shore?
                  You’ve been on the site for less than 2 weeks, you have 3 snot on uniform, and you already have control over where to go.
                  It’s not accepted here, not on the censor ....

                  And to argue with you do not respect yourself, your plywood at 3000 degrees in a supersonic stream does not burn. belay
    2. Hammerlock
      Hammerlock 17 January 2018 12: 19
      +1
      uzbahoyte your terror
    3. Muvka
      Muvka 17 January 2018 12: 20
      10
      Are you personally ready, as during WWII, to work for free, 18 hours a day? If you get a couple of millions of such people, then we will be able to overpower the same pace of production as during the Second World War.
      1. the most important
        the most important 17 January 2018 12: 53
        +5
        Quote: Muvka
        Are you personally ready, as during WWII, to work for free, 18 hours a day?

        Half of the country works for us for free, while a handful of EFFECTIVE MANAGERS take their hands ... Why an EM plane ??? why homeland ??? In case of conflict, they will board their planes and wash off after their capitals ... Or do you think that they and their children will defend their homeland ??? See what they get up on their cars on the road! This is how the occupiers behave.
        1. allaykbar
          allaykbar 17 January 2018 13: 49
          +4
          We have half of the country working for free


          Yes? I just need workers. Ready? Well, since there is no difference where to work for free
          And I will save. I’ll even give food.

          while a bunch of EFFECTIVE MANAGERS tidy everything up


          Nobody forbids you to become an effective manager and give everything to others

          Why an EM plane ??? why homeland ???


          You don’t need it. Fact

          In case of conflict, they will board their planes and wash off after their capitals ..


          What do you care about 0,000001 percent? Will they play the weather?

          This is how the occupiers behave.


          With such thoughts, I don’t understand why you are sitting on the forum, and not in the woods, conducting a guerrilla warfare.
          1. ZVladimir222
            ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 23: 15
            +1
            Why did you attack him? The man is telling the truth.
            Your psychology of the "employer" is clear, as long as you carry it. Uzbeks, do you happen to hire? I see everything - yes!
            Do you think they do not work for free?
            My wife works for free. Such is how you save on the operating table. Especially after long night libations and shawarma. For free.
            Many people in our country are prevented from becoming an “effective” manager (that is, a traitor to the Motherland, a crook and a thief and a thief in power or a warder) in our country, not only the lack of blat and patronage with payment, but conscience, love for the Motherland and its people, national traditions, memory ancestors and, now quite often - religiosity.
            This, it seems, is not familiar to you, since you are talking to a person like an Uzbek east-arbiter.
            As for the partisans, it is not yet evening. Wait a moment.
            Many of our brothers are already waging this war. Long. In the Caucasus, in the Donbass, and now in Syria.
            So please be a little more polite in the expressions.
            1. allaykbar
              allaykbar 18 January 2018 11: 36
              +1
              Why did you attack him? The man is telling the truth.


              attacked?

              My wife works for free. Such is how you save on the operating table. Especially after long night libations and shawarma. For free.


              surgeon? for free?

              Many people in our country are prevented from becoming an “effective” manager (that is, a traitor to the Motherland, a crook and a thief and a thief in power or a warder) in our country, not only the lack of blat and patronage with payment, but conscience, love for the Motherland and its people, national traditions, memory ancestors and, now quite often - religiosity.


              A manager is a manager. A good manager will receive well. And if it hurts you so much, then you can donate your salary as a good manager to charity.

              Religion forbids you to manage and earn? Love to motherland? So give the money earned to temples and the budget.

              What nonsense is this?

              This, it seems, is not familiar to you, since you are talking to a person like an Uzbek east-arbiter.


              I just have not seen working for free before. It became interesting where such are found.

              As for the partisans, it is not yet evening. Wait a moment.


              ho ho Dig out guns and reeds. Special forces will work against you

              Many of our brothers are already waging this war. Long. In the Caucasus, in the Donbass, and now in Syria.


              Can I learn more? Partisan against the "federals" in the Caucasus? Or didn’t I understand something?

              Brothers partisans in Syria? Against a legitimate government?

              So please be a little more polite in the expressions.


              not insulted and not rude.
              1. ZVladimir222
                ZVladimir222 18 January 2018 13: 38
                0
                - Yes, dear, I hope you have enough upbringing so as not to reach insults.
                I always respect educated people.
                But your attack: "I will give even food" is on the verge. With respectable people do not talk like that.
                I hope for your prudence and further conversation in a constructive manner.
                And in general - here about the weapon, so let's talk about the weapon.
                And for surgeons, yes (and not only for them), the salary in our country is humiliating.
                Not even enough for food. Everyone knows this very well.
                That many people in our country not only work, but also serve in the army (and fight!) Precisely for free ...
                1. allaykbar
                  allaykbar 18 January 2018 13: 40
                  +1
                  That many people in our country not only work, but also serve in the army (and fight!) Precisely for free ..


                  everything is clear with you. Very hungry officers and sergeants contract soldiers and foremen with ensigns. Yeah. If I were far from the army - I would read you and think - what a horror. But I have a direct relationship with the army and your tales do not channel. Your stories would have gone a year so in 1991-2005. Now I do not know where you got this data

                  And surgeons get a penny. Yeah.

                  Not a penny, how much, if not secret? Million?
              2. ZVladimir222
                ZVladimir222 18 January 2018 13: 50
                0
                - Maybe there’s a manager and manager somewhere or some other man who is indispensable for society.
                The manager in state structures or enterprises of Russia is a thief and a swindler who is stealing official (that is, popular) good! Apriore. Regardless of rank.
                Maybe in some small private companies there are managers who earn honest work (I doubt it). Basically, their activity is aimed at how to get more out of the lower link in favor of the employer (for which he puts them) and to besiege more in his pocket. Again, stripping the bottom link. The boss will not allow him to take his "own" and will never give anything!
                In large monopolistic companies, the situation is similar to state-owned ones. To plunder more state and national good. That's all you "management".
                So do not, please, I'm here about the "good managers."
                1. allaykbar
                  allaykbar 18 January 2018 13: 59
                  +1
                  the manager in government agencies or enterprises of Russia is a thief and a swindler stealing official (that is, popular) goods! Apriore. Regardless of rank.


                  are you offended by someone? Well, you write nonsense.

                  Maybe in some small private companies there are managers who earn honest work (I doubt it).


                  maybe it's just envy?

                  So do not, please, I'm here about the "good managers."


                  I wish you to have your own business without managers. And you can not recruit managers at all. Let Mykola agree on contracts and promotion of your goods. And he also manages projects and staff.

              3. ZVladimir222
                ZVladimir222 18 January 2018 13: 58
                0
                [/ quote] can I read more? Partisan against the "federals" in the Caucasus? Or I didn’t understand something [quote]

                About the partisans.
                Something you either really misunderstand something (unlike) or pretend.
                Go to Lugansk.
                Do you want to upgrade?
                And I don’t need to threaten me with special forces here.
                1. allaykbar
                  allaykbar 18 January 2018 14: 01
                  +1
                  Go to Lugansk.
                  Do you want to upgrade?


                  I asked for the Caucasus. Because he "rode" there. Of course there are enough shaitans there.
                  But they are all driven into the ground.

                  And if for you the special forces is just an error, which you can ignore while “guerrilla” against the federals, then good luck.

      2. ZVladimir222
        ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 23: 34
        0
        - And who told you that during the war or even ever in the USSR they worked "for free"?
        Workers at the enterprises of the USSR (especially defense) received a good salary.
        Have you ever been to enterprises at least once in your life? Or do you know how to listen to the current bourgeois propaganda from all mass media including the Internet? Have you seen the USSR with your own eyes to speak such slander against him?
        The working man "for free" will not bend your back.
        And in the war - too. Consciousness under socialism - yes.
        But all the defense workers who had the reservation (including women and children) were eager for the plant to feed their families!
        Here on the collective farm was not run up. But the plant paid money. The families who worked in the evacuation at the plant (especially in the Urals) sometimes fed 5-6 people and rescued the neighbors.
        Without money, they would have bitten it!
        In particularly difficult places (the same besieged Leningrad), the hard worker received a double ration and had benefits. Plus reservation. It was not possible to get there, this defensive, coveted plant.
        And after the war, the defenders in general, in comparison with others, “lived in chocolate” 9 (salaries, and ration and tours and goods are scarce) - which workers and engineers of ordinary enterprises did not see at times (although not always, they lived worse, too - paid!). Until the era of restoration of capitalism!
        So do not tell me fairy tales, a young man about "for free."
        I went through many defense plants both in the USSR and in the Russian Federation. Until 2012 inclusive. And now sometimes I go to friends at the factory - I have information. I went to congratulate you on the New Year. I know what to compare with!
        Today, yes, everyone works there for free. "Beneficiaries" take all the profits for themselves. because young people do not go there or fled. And nobody wants to do anything. One continuous "Italian strike". From here we have nothing of our own in Russia. Including weapons.
    4. Yuyuka
      Yuyuka 17 January 2018 12: 21
      +5
      Quote: Gogia
      Damn, how much they talked about the modular design. If our aviation industry worked this way during the Second World War, I don’t know what this would lead to.


      You can not compare the level of development of technology of completely different eras. For the days of the Second World War, pilots were trained for months, now for years, and the technique is not comparable in complexity ... This is the same as saying - here you could make a bow and arrow in a day, and then a rifle (gun, gun ...) for so long do. Any new or even the latest requires the development of new technologies, and sometimes new factories.
      1. tolyasik0577
        tolyasik0577 17 January 2018 12: 37
        +6
        Any new or even the latest requires the development of new technologies, and sometimes new factories.
        done fairly. In besieged Leningrad, the release of weapons of equipment and ammunition continued, and there were enough resources. Moreover, 7 out of 10 went to other fronts. Try to collect now the same T-72 limited only by the capabilities of the industry of one city.
      2. ZVladimir222
        ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 22: 43
        0
        - Who has been preparing them there for years?
        They have flights at best - 50 hours! All on the simulators. Just like in a war!
        and no one has been developing any “new” technologies in Russia for a long time. All technologies are Soviet.
        And foreign customers are trying to vparit some old bullshit. Type rebranded MiG-29.
        But while at least there are these technologies, we must take them and equip the army.
        But, understand, no one is going to do this!
        This is not profitable and dangerous for the current authorities. They are friends with the West! Have you not noticed?
    5. Zhelezyakin
      Zhelezyakin 17 January 2018 13: 07
      +1
      What do you mean by modules, dear?
      1. ZVladimir222
        ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 22: 59
        +1
        I will tell you which modules. Look at the F-16. open wikipedia.
        Removable conformal tanks, quick-change engine and much more.
        You can also set up early warning radar (in the interceptor variant), but not in the bomber variant. Do not carry excess cargo. More bombs.
        Why bombard the Barmalei long-range radar?
        In the version of the attack aircraft, additional armor plates can be hung in the cockpit and tanks, Kevlar lining, etc.
        Modules - they are modules. Now everything is promising - modular: tanks, armored personnel carriers, ships, infantry equipment ...
        Aircraft is no exception.
        We don’t have one!
        1. Zhelezyakin
          Zhelezyakin 18 January 2018 14: 24
          +1
          No wonder I asked what you mean by modules.
          In general, I tend to think that you are mistaken. Both Conformal tanks and various types of radars are aircraft modifications, a reaction to customer requirements if you want. The modular design of a modern aircraft is in a sense utopian. Yes, it would not be bad to have it, but changing the engine in a couple of hours will not work, too many operations and adjustments need to be carried out. Moreover, this replacement will have to be done by the conscript technician (well, maybe not the conscript) in the dusty hangar of the combat unit. If we are talking about replacing any components or assemblies with recalling the aircraft to the manufacturer, then this, as in the case of the F-16 blocks, is a modernization.

          Quote: ZVladimir222
          quick change engine


          And this is generally a very relative concept. Fast compared to what? Compared to replacing an engine on a 2nd, 3rd generation or F119 engine?

          Quote: ZVladimir222
          Aircraft is no exception.


          And why do you give an example of an old plane, developed in the 70s and not FF 35, 22? Something about modularity is silent there (in other matters, like in the article about F16 on the wiki, I didn’t find there about the modularity of the airplane’s design, maybe I was looking badly).
          Quote: ZVladimir222
          In the version of the attack aircraft, additional armor plates can be hung in the cockpit and tanks, Kevlar lining, etc.

          Is this a T-50 attack aircraft? And about the conformal tanks on this plane, where even the rockets were hidden inside the casing, and forget to think. And then, if the tank is hidden in a glider / wing, how to hang additional armor protection on it ?! Already not a module!
    6. ZVladimir222
      ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 22: 52
      0
      - Well, what led ...
      To the execution of all project managers, and sending their families to a concentration camp.
      And, what would be most important today, with the confiscation of all property.
      And not only in war. And before and after the war.
  5. Star
    Star 17 January 2018 12: 19
    +2
    Quote: Aaron Zawi
    Quote: Vasya Vassin
    It’s okay if they have the fifth weightier than gold, then the sixth will weigh like bruliks. Let them do, build ... even ... both two pieces!

    85mln $ for F-35A is not so expensive.

    F-35 and was invented to replace the F-22 as a cheaper one.
    1. Zhelezyakin
      Zhelezyakin 17 January 2018 13: 10
      +1
      Oh, noooo. Who told you that? These are cars of a different class and purpose. Not a single F 22 can be written off in exchange even for two lightning)))
  6. keeper03
    keeper03 17 January 2018 12: 21
    +2
    Three years old?!? And why not five - ten? !! Someone seriously presses the brake! am
    Find and eliminate a saboteur !!! angry
    1. ADmA_RUS
      ADmA_RUS 17 January 2018 12: 26
      +4
      How many developed and launched in a series of military aircraft in your biography?
    2. tolyasik0577
      tolyasik0577 17 January 2018 12: 41
      +1
      Three years, they even asked a little. The engine is completely new, I'm afraid it will not be enough for five years.
      Perhaps the designers have built up a potential far greater than we know, and it will need to be developed.
      1. LMN
        LMN 17 January 2018 14: 42
        +3
        Quote: tolyasik0577
        Three years, they even asked a little. The engine is completely new, I'm afraid it will not be enough for five years.
        Perhaps the designers have built up a potential far greater than we know, and it will need to be developed.


        Here, here. Here, in VO there was an article about this new engine. Absolutely new. And there was EMNIP, about the "five stages". Now, as I understand it, only the second stage and for many years the engine will be finalized.
        1. ZVladimir222
          ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 22: 32
          +1
          - Yes, they will not make any "new" engine!
          The technology is still Soviet. The dust is one in the eye.
          The French have long had a temperature of 1800 C turbine and a resource of 15 hours.
          And we have two pensioners and three East Arbayters at the plant for six months waiting for money!
          Unfortunate 15.
          KNAAP On salary through the website of the president he is suing. What are you talking about? Around the top one crook - thieves!
      2. ZVladimir222
        ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 22: 35
        +1
        - Yeah. They have been laying this potential for 30 years. Mostly behind the collar. But there is still no airplane in the troops!
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 18 January 2018 00: 38
          0
          Yes, because it costs Su 57 for four billion rubles - for Russia damn expensive. This aircraft in service was supposed to appear 20 years ago, and now its time has passed - it’s already being engaged in the sixth generation — it makes no sense to adopt a machine that will become obsolete the day after tomorrow. The sixth generation of fighters will appear in 7 - 10 years.
          1. ZVladimir222
            ZVladimir222 18 January 2018 02: 52
            0
            - Take it, you just do not pull it!
            He should bomb already in Syria, and not show over Akhtubinsky "air show" on New Year's Eve.
            True, what are his goals (unlike the MiG-31, which we are discussing here on a parallel page) is unclear.
            If it were to be placed in Cuba (in order to catch up with fear on the United States about a global disarming blow), the topic may also be.
            The truth of his "invisibility" raises strong doubts.
            Rather, this project is to breed sub-stupid Indians into grandmas - that's all. The plane is good. Only the price is too prohibitive.
            It’s time for something simpler on the conveyor. I already wrote about this. And the Indians will do.
    3. ZVladimir222
      ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 22: 38
      +1
      - Saboteurs are all in Moscow (and in the Kremlin, too). And their children are in the West.
      Therefore they do not need this plane. Danger to offspring.
      And for the people - the show is beautiful.
      As for liquidation - the 17th year has passed, until the light and the end to all this outrage is not visible!
  7. Lexus
    Lexus 17 January 2018 12: 24
    +3
    There is nothing to be done - there is no way to do without a full test cycle. The same F-22 Raptor was adopted 15 years after the first flight.
    1. Korax71
      Korax71 17 January 2018 13: 49
      +1
      So it seems that the lizard in September 1997 made its first flight. And began to be mass-produced since 2001.
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 17 January 2018 13: 55
        +4
        The first prototype YF-22 took off in 1990. And in 1997, the first pre-production model took off in the final configuration of the airframe.
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 17 January 2018 15: 54
          +1
          I will supplement with the analogy YF-22 - this is T-50-1, and the first F-22 is T-50-11. Now count.
    2. ZVladimir222
      ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 22: 21
      +1
      - And in 30 years they will receive from us. Well, in connection with the situation ... So what?
      We, from 1929 to 1941, built 200 submarines.
      We made an atomic bomb in 4 years from scratch!
      Whom are you justifying?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 January 2018 00: 40
        0
        To create a fighter is not an atomic bomb - with a fighter, everything is much more complicated.
        1. ZVladimir222
          ZVladimir222 18 January 2018 02: 42
          +2
          - Is a fighter more complicated than the Soviet atomic project?
          Are you laughing or mocking?
          Is this a plastic trough with Soviet slightly modernized engines, Chinese microcircuits and displays inside?
          Well, I understand that if it were created from scratch!
          Do not forget, along with the atomic bomb, we also made rockets and tanks with fighter jets and submarines!
          And all for one five-year period!
  8. afrikanez
    afrikanez 17 January 2018 13: 30
    +2
    Tests Su-57 with the new engine will last about three years
    It seems that the Su-57 is not going to be delivered to the troops at all. am
    1. askort154
      askort154 17 January 2018 14: 03
      +1
      afrikanez ...It seems that the Su-57 is not going to be delivered to the troops at all.

      The first batch of the planned 12 aircraft with engines of the first option will begin to enter the VKS in 2018 (a recent statement). Perhaps the first swallow by March 18 - will arrive. yes
      1. gig334
        gig334 17 January 2018 14: 27
        +1
        It will start as in 2017, already then should have arrived. Reason for postponement, new engine product 30.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 January 2018 00: 41
        +2
        Here is the new date - 2028. The first batch will be the last.
  9. gukoyan
    gukoyan 17 January 2018 14: 16
    0
    I hope that the situation will not be the same as with the SU-47;
    1. ZVladimir222
      ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 22: 18
      +1
      - Repeat and be sure!
      Su-47 did not go into the series, not because the plane is bad, but because the Ataman’s gold reserve is mute. He brought it to Switzerland, and there they froze it!
  10. gig334
    gig334 17 January 2018 14: 25
    0
    It is clear when these democrats will leave the government, they only do everything with their tongues. The Communists would be in power, these would have long ago made a fifth-generation aircraft. No Mr. Putin, that's enough, only Grudinin, I will vote for him.
    Otherwise, you won’t cook porridge. They should have hurt themselves in the forehead, not sleeping at night, but to put the finished aircraft on the air force, and not to promise to feed. If such people ruled in a war, they would have lost it long ago, but thank God it was not you who ruled.
    1. IQ12NHJ21az
      IQ12NHJ21az 17 January 2018 21: 14
      0
      Good! They delivered you 100 Su-57 right now, what will you do with them? Who will fly? Who to service? Are you alone or someone else?
      1. ZVladimir222
        ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 22: 26
        0
        - We will find and who will fly and serve. Call if that. There are enough specialists. Pay only.
        And then you want everything for free, like an Uzbek at a construction site.
        Someone’s trouble is nothing!
        So you have to shell out someone. And do not arrange mundiali with the Olympics!
    2. ZVladimir222
      ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 22: 15
      +1
      - Grudinin, Putin, Zhirinovsky - all one brigade of thimbles. And your voice will not affect anything. There have long been "voted".
      But there were no new aircraft in service, nor were there.
      Su-24th pulled out almost the entire campaign in Syria. Made in USSR.
      The use of the Su-35s was episodic. This is because even though the plane is good, it carries few bombs.
      And this (here India will refuse him) awaits the fate of his predecessor, “Golden Eagle”.
      Denies are popular for a long time in Zurich.
      What do you think: Vekselbergs with Rottenbergs and Abramovichs with Chubais and Usmanovs with Friedman and Alekperovs will fork out at PAKFA?
      Pipes! He, if anything, will bomb their children and grandchildren in the USA and the EEC! How can this be allowed?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 January 2018 00: 43
        0
        We generally have to PAKFA and everything else - the budget coughs up, not the oligarchs.
        1. ZVladimir222
          ZVladimir222 18 January 2018 02: 38
          0
          [/ quote] We generally have PAKFA and everything else - the budget coughs up, not the oligarchs. [quote]

          But we need to shell them out in full, then we will have everything: PAX and PAX and tanks and hospitals and doctors' salaries.
  11. Nemesis
    Nemesis 17 January 2018 15: 00
    +1
    So you need to launch the aircraft in series with the engine that has already been tested and ready for production, with the possibility of replacing the engine in the future ... The United States has 184 F-22 Raptor in service and we should not forget about it ...
  12. Radikal
    Radikal 17 January 2018 15: 15
    +3
    Tests Su-57 with the new engine will last about three years
    And why not 4, or 5 years? winked
  13. KKND
    KKND 17 January 2018 20: 59
    +7
    Dudes, I saw the future! It was 2020, the aircraft was tested, it was promised that it would be put into service within 3 years, the patriots on this site screamed: "It’s not worth the haste."
  14. seacap
    seacap 17 January 2018 21: 03
    +3
    It seems that it’s time to translate it as a prototype and start a new development, you see, after 50 years and change the SU-30. It’s scary to think what will happen when the engineer of the old Soviet school leaves and comes from his “effective managers”, from whom we will buy from China?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 January 2018 00: 46
      0
      Su 57 will go for export, and at this time the Russian Air Force will be armed with improved Su 35s, with AFAR, new avionics and engines from the fifth generation, in anticipation of the sixth generation.
      1. shahor
        shahor 18 January 2018 18: 07
        +1
        And who will buy this miracle? Algeria? A. Know - give credit to Venezuela and write off again. Passed by.
        And the debts will be written off to you and AFARS and engines.
  15. Jarilo
    Jarilo 17 January 2018 21: 16
    +1
    Three years to experience! Three years to test !!! I do not understand what you can experience there for three years. The drugs I understand, the genetically modified foods I understand. What in three years should happen to an airplane I don’t understand.
  16. ZVladimir222
    ZVladimir222 17 January 2018 22: 04
    +1
    - Why is it not 30 years to test it? How much more can you pull?
    Maybe for now, adopt some other, cheaper aircraft? After all, tomorrow there may be a war!
    And in the Air Force, NATO has an overwhelming superiority. Su-35 is also not cheap. Many of them can not be done quickly. There will still be a flaw.
    And the F-16 is cheap. He and the Turks are already stamping like sausages.
    MiG-29th in the battles proved to be bad.
    And why not make a new glider with one AL-41F engine and a good radar and a maximum take-off weight of 17-18 tons, like the F-16?
    Such an aircraft will be almost 2 times cheaper than the Su-35 and almost 4 times the “Great” PAKFA. And even cheaper than the MiG-35th.
    This means that the country will be upgraded to parity with opponents faster, cheaper, and foreign customers will be better off buying it.
    But nothing is being done. It must be understood that no one will buy the MiG-29, how many digits it does not attach. A PAKFA project is too expensive and long-playing.
    I saw him in Akhtubinsk. Beautiful, powerful. But the price!
    In addition, the engine nozzles, unlike the F-22, stick out, greatly increasing the EPR. That is, its stealth is imaginary.
    Then why such a plane? To cut the budget, but India to breed grandmas?
    But didn’t forget that she is our ally, albeit indirectly?
    So is it not better to arm them for the same money with a large number of cheaper fighters?
    1. shahor
      shahor 18 January 2018 18: 11
      +1
      And they are not fools and do not want our cheaper ones and bought
      the French Rafali - more expensive, but better.
  17. mashinist
    mashinist 18 January 2018 02: 17
    0
    In short, a new army is waiting for us by the year 2030
  18. newcomer
    newcomer 18 January 2018 02: 24
    +1
    Don, for some reason, the comment does not go through the branch, I write separately. Donskoy, “and with what fright“ did you decide that I “decided” so? Having met f35, SU35 will not dump him, because he will wait for the 22nd fc? I wrote that our cars of the transitional generation are 4 two pluses, do a good job with any fukah. so what you wanted to say, I did not understand.
  19. Sergeant71
    Sergeant71 18 January 2018 06: 07
    0
    Quote: zivXP
    This will not last, but may last, said this official. Or they can finish faster - it is read between the lines. There is a new move, probably there are a lot of new solutions. You need to check everything. And how quickly it will be put into production depends on what the results will be.

    It definitely won’t be faster. All the experience of testing and adopting weapons in our country suggests that we can only be detained for a long time.
  20. _Jack_
    _Jack_ 18 January 2018 14: 44
    +1
    newcomer,
    And they will drive these few pieces for another three years in military trials, and the F-35 is already hundreds in a state of combat readiness and what difference does it make to us how many times they have exceeded the budget and how did they force others to buy this plane? Here we are several years behind and without the participation of other countries we won’t pull the mass production at all because it’s very expensive