Military Review

Paris commented on the situation with the "royal debts" of Russia

110
Over the past few days, several materials have appeared in the French press at once that French citizens have filed lawsuits against Russia regarding the payment of “debts”. We are talking about citizens who are descendants of the holders of bonds of the so-called royal loans. The descendants have their own association. And now members of this association are demanding payments from the Russian Federation, which ultimately can be up to 30 billion euros.


At the same time, French media say that the court is unlikely to “be able to oblige Russia to pay such an amount.” The fact is that earlier the Russian Federation repaid its debts (plus debts of the Russian Empire and the USSR) to France, in the sum of which were about a third of billions of euros specifically for tsar's loans.

For reference: the French association of imperial loans holders (talking about loans for building a railway in Russia in the 19th century) includes up to 400 thousand people. Almost Napoleonic army ...

RIA Newsreferring to the Ministry of Economy of France, reports that after the payments made by Russia, the official Paris cannot demand that Moscow pay off “pre-revolutionary private debts”.

Paris commented on the situation with the "royal debts" of Russia


From the statement of the ministry official:
Intergovernmental disputes between the French Republic and the Russian Federation on the issue of "Russian loans" were eliminated by signing 27 on May 1997 of the agreement between the two countries, on which France and Russia mutually refuse all financial debts that arose between them before 9 on May 1945, and refrain from supporting the claims of their citizens related to these debts.


At the same time, it is added that it also cannot prohibit its citizens from filing claims against Russia.

According to some information, the French owners of the Russian tsarist bonds tried to make demands even in the period of the existence of the USSR. However, in the Land of the Soviets, it was quickly explained that there could be no question of any redemption of “royal” debts by the Soviet government and Soviet citizens.
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coberu.ru
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  1. Theodore
    Theodore 17 January 2018 06: 37
    11
    Let them pay for the occupation first!
    1. DEDPIHTO
      DEDPIHTO 17 January 2018 06: 42
      14
      Quote: Theodore
      Let them pay for the occupation first!

      And if you still figure the damage from Napoleon’s invasion ... fellow
      1. oldseaman1957
        oldseaman1957 17 January 2018 06: 45
        22
        Earlier, the Russian Federation repaid its debts (plus the debts of the Russian Empire and the USSR) to France, in the amount of which there were also about a third of the euro precisely on tsar’s loans ...
        - Selfishness and greed are natural things, but not to the same extent that they demand twice for the same thing.
        1. LSA57
          LSA57 17 January 2018 07: 17
          +9
          Quote: oldseaman1957
          Earlier, the Russian Federation repaid its debts (plus the debts of the Russian Empire and the USSR) to France, in the amount of which there were also about a third of the euro precisely on tsar’s loans ...
          - Selfishness and greed are natural things, but not to the same extent that they demand twice for the same thing.

          By the way, on February 23, when will it finally come? sad
          1. kirgiz58
            kirgiz58 17 January 2018 07: 52
            17
            Socks of the fourth degree of wear (when you can cut the nails without removing the socks). They are still to be worn and worn to the fifth degree (when you can take off your socks without taking off your shoes). laughing laughing
            1. LSA57
              LSA57 17 January 2018 07: 56
              +7
              Quote: kirgiz58
              Socks of the fourth degree of wear (when you can cut the nails without removing the socks). They are still to be worn and worn to the fifth degree (when you can take off your socks without taking off your shoes). laughing laughing

              thanks, I will consider laughing
              God forbid my wife finds out about this, another year to go to these laughing
              1. kirgiz58
                kirgiz58 17 January 2018 08: 04
                +3
                Quote: LSA57
                God forbid my wife finds out about this, another year to go to these

                And you, looking in your wardrobe at the wives’s neckerchiefs, exclaim joyfully: "Oh !! What a fellow you are with me !! I bought new footcloths! I just bought them! Just in time, otherwise they don’t keep a darn on my socks!" I guarantee, without waiting for 23, receive a package of socks. Checked. laughing
                1. LSA57
                  LSA57 17 January 2018 08: 08
                  +2
                  Quote: kirgiz58
                  Quote: LSA57
                  God forbid my wife finds out about this, another year to go to these

                  And you, looking in your wardrobe at the wives’s neckerchiefs, exclaim joyfully: "Oh !! What a fellow you are with me !! I bought new footcloths! I just bought them! Just in time, otherwise they don’t keep a darn on my socks!" I guarantee, without waiting for 23, receive a package of socks. Checked. laughing

                  you’ll wait from her .... sad he’ll drive him out of the house faster.
                  easier to buy yourself. for the new year laughing
                  1. kirgiz58
                    kirgiz58 17 January 2018 08: 16
                    +1
                    Quote: LSA57
                    you’ll wait from her .... he’ll drive him out of the house faster.

                    Do not drive out. According to the law, it is possible to deprive housing in the winter after 3 months from warning, and without socks and half a year can be extended. But so much is not required, after 50 days on March 8th, you can make amends (request for new socks).
                    1. LSA57
                      LSA57 17 January 2018 08: 46
                      +2
                      Quote: kirgiz58
                      50 days later, March 8th

                      do not remind !!!! crying again a loan for a fur coat crying laughing
            2. Nyrobsky
              Nyrobsky 17 January 2018 10: 28
              +2
              Quote: kirgiz58
              Socks of the fourth degree of wear (when you can cut the nails without removing the socks). They are still to be worn and worn to the fifth degree (when you can take off your socks without taking off your shoes)

              Well, yes ... rubber bands are still strong. yes
            3. Sheff333
              Sheff333 17 January 2018 11: 38
              +2
              And what is the degree of wear when you can wash your legs without taking off your socks? laughing
              1. LSA57
                LSA57 17 January 2018 12: 38
                +1
                Quote: Sheff333
                And what is the degree of wear when you can wash your legs without taking off your socks?

                I have any laughing
          2. Vasya Vassin
            Vasya Vassin 17 January 2018 09: 34
            +1
            the condolences of the death of faithful comrades. for a year did not reach?
        2. novel66
          novel66 17 January 2018 07: 18
          +7
          so etogue the French-and they will give odds to Svidomo in the quest for free
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 17 January 2018 09: 13
            +2
            Quote: novel xnumx
            so etogue the French-and they will give odds to Svidomo in the quest for free

            Where is the freebie here?
            French citizens in good faith bought bonds of the Russian Empire and for the most part did not make decisions on conducting any military operations on the territory of other countries, and the revolution was not carried out in the 17th year, as I understand them humanly, the issue of prestige of the country is not simple and is subject to discussion who will buy current bonds from Russia if she does not pay on old loans.
            1. Paranoid50
              Paranoid50 17 January 2018 10: 19
              +5
              Quote: saturn.mmm
              French citizens in good faith bought bonds of the Russian Empire and for the most part did not make decisions on any military operations

              Duc, let them then demand from Poincare, yeah. And again: if it weren’t for “debtors,” then German soldiers would have entered Paris a quarter of a century earlier than the Nazis ... Well, maybe the French were not even against it, and therefore they demand a “debt”. Yes, these Russians again - they didn’t let the French drink German beer in Montmartre, they had to wait twenty-five years. yes
            2. Hellraiser
              Hellraiser 17 January 2018 10: 52
              +2
              Interstate disputes between the French Republic and the Russian Federation on the issue of "Russian loans" were liquidated by the signing on May 27, 1997 of an agreement between the two countries, on which France and Russia mutually refuse all financial debtsthat arose between them before May 9, 1945, and also refrain from supporting the claims of their citizens related to these debts.
              The Russian Federation paid off its debts (plus the debts of the Russian Empire and the USSR) to France, in the amount of which there were about third of a billion euros precisely for royal loans
              Everything in the article says that Russia paid (in money and offsets) on all debts with France and
              there can be no requirements for us.
              Well, if the French government threw their citizens and did not pay them the money, this is not for us.
              1. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 17 January 2018 13: 07
                0
                Quote: Hellraiser
                The Russian Federation paid off its debts (plus the debts of the Russian Empire and the USSR) to France, in the amount of which there were also about a third of the euro on royal loans

                Looks like stupid people paid off debts, if they paid off everything, then where did the French get RI bonds?
                The French government provided bonds for a certain amount. Russia seizes the bonds and pays the debt.
                Quote: Hellraiser
                there can be no requirements for us.

                But they are.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 17 January 2018 14: 10
                  0
                  France acknowledged that Russia has transferred 50 millions of dollars in repayment of debt on the so-called "royal" securities. Thus, the amount of debt agreed in 1996 by Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin and his French counterpart Lionel Jospin in 1996 was fully paid.
                  http://www.bbc.com/russian/0803_8.shtml
              2. Rarog
                Rarog 17 January 2018 18: 48
                0
                Debts to the state and a citizen of this state are different debts, albeit on the same bonds. The state invested in RI debt obligations separately from private French investors.
            3. Dedall
              Dedall 17 January 2018 22: 27
              +1
              And whose signatures were on bonds? Prime Minister Witte and the Minister of Finance?
              So the descendants of the first of them, as far as I know, still live in America, so let the descendants of bond buyers demand from them.
            4. would
              would 18 January 2018 10: 59
              0
              prestige of the country is not simple and is subject to discussion who will buy current bonds from Russia if it does not pay on old loans.


              In 1997, Russia fully paid all the debts of the Republic of Ingushetia to French citizens in relation to the agreed amount. And this despite the fact that Russia is neither the successor nor the assignee of the Republic of Ingushetia, that is, it was not even our bonds and our problems.
        3. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 17 January 2018 07: 19
          +5
          "Greed, swagger, selfishness -
          according to Confucius,
          They won’t bring to good,
          Knows this and a boob! "
          "Cyberiad" Stanislav Lem.
      2. Non liberoid Russian
        Non liberoid Russian 17 January 2018 07: 32
        +2
        and from the Crimean war
      3. igfrost1957
        igfrost1957 17 January 2018 07: 35
        +1
        And also the Crimean War!
      4. Metallurg_2
        Metallurg_2 17 January 2018 20: 56
        0
        Here with this bummer: Alexander I, sending Kutuzov’s army to the Overseas campaign, proclaimed that we were fighting not against the state of France, but against the usurper Bonaparte and for the restoration of the legal dynasty on the throne.
        And yes, there would be a precedent ...
    2. siberalt
      siberalt 17 January 2018 07: 09
      11
      There is such a thing. When settling with France, it was recorded that the parties did not have claims against Russia regarding royal debts. Now, for the remaining debts on royal bonds, the French government bears responsibility to its citizens in the recourse order. This is a common practice. hi
      1. Metallurg_2
        Metallurg_2 17 January 2018 20: 58
        0
        In the treasury of France, a dumb penny - everything went to benefits for unemployed migrants)))
    3. Spartanez300
      Spartanez300 17 January 2018 07: 12
      +1
      If you raise all the ins and outs of debt, then the French will never pay.
    4. abarth
      abarth 17 January 2018 07: 19
      +4
      and Paris and Berlin are our military trophies, even if they pay for the use ..... many European capitals should think, especially Vienna
      1. Metallurg_2
        Metallurg_2 17 January 2018 21: 00
        +1
        Let us recall that, taking away the remains of the occupying Russian corps from France in 1818, his last commander Count Mikhail Semenovich Vorontsov paid all the debts that the officers had done in all local taverns, brothels and gambling houses with personal (personal, Karl) funds.
        But you could have taken everything for free, rightfully the winners ... and local girls including ...
    5. Pravodel
      Pravodel 17 January 2018 07: 37
      +6
      For the Great Patriotic War also, where they fought on the side of the Germans in Russia.
      1. sogdy
        sogdy 17 January 2018 07: 49
        +3
        Quote: The Truth
        For the Great Patriotic War also

        As it is said: "until May 9, 1945."
    6. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 17 January 2018 07: 47
      +6
      Quote: Theodore
      Let them pay for the occupation first!

      And which countries "sheltered" the tsarist gold of Russia ?! I read that it is still there. They don’t want to return now ?!
      1. albert
        albert 17 January 2018 20: 59
        +1
        Quote: Starover_Z
        And which countries "sheltered" the tsarist gold of Russia ?! I read that it is still there. They don’t want to return now ?!

        Japan, 80 tons. With interest, I think now, a lot has come.
    7. DEfindER
      DEfindER 17 January 2018 08: 19
      +5
      Quote: Theodore
      Let them pay for the occupation first!

      Duc Lenin told them then, when they turned to him with the same thing in 1919, we are ready to pay off all debts if you stop the intervention against our country, the French then refused. And during the intervention, they looted and exported valuables, and this is not counting the destruction of the population .. And we also repaid them these debts in the 90s, well, well, really handsome ..
    8. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 17 January 2018 09: 58
      +5
      "b) They say that the stumbling block in improving the economic ties between the USSR and the bourgeois states is the issue of debts. I think this is not an argument for paying debts, but an excuse in the hands of aggressive elements for interventionist propaganda. Our policy in this area is clear and Subject to the provision of loans to us, we agree to pay a small share of pre-war debts, considering them as an additional interest on loans. Without this condition, we cannot and should not pay. They demand more from us? On what basis? Is it not known that these the debts were made by the tsarist government, which was overthrown by the revolution and for the obligations of which the Soviet government cannot take responsibility? slavery to romanian boyars? What international obligations do capitalists and governments did the tvs of France, England, America, Japan attacked the USSR, intervened, robbed him for three whole years and ruined its population? If this is called international law and international obligation, then what is called robbery? (Laughter. Applause.) Is it not clear that by allowing these predatory acts, gentlemen "allies" have deprived themselves of the right to invoke international law, international obligations? "
      (And To Stalin "POLITICAL REPORT OF THE CENTRAL COMMITTEE

      XVI CONGRESS OF THE CPSU (B.)

      June 27, 1930)
      http://www.hrono.info/libris/stalin/16s13.php
  2. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 17 January 2018 06: 41
    +5
    Well, what governments have paid off to each other, and some unsatisfied citizens of France can satisfy themselves.
    1. kirgiz58
      kirgiz58 17 January 2018 21: 19
      +2
      Quote: Alexander 3
      French citizens can satisfy themselves.

      Or each other, according to the laws of tolerance. laughing
  3. Herculesic
    Herculesic 17 January 2018 06: 42
    +6
    What’s interesting! But it’s interesting, when will they return Russian gold exported to their banks to the revolution to us when they will? Moreover, gold was put at a high percentage, and the amount that we need to be stored will be gigantic! negative And not only they - in many European countries is stored the gold exported from Russia to the revolution - our gold! !!!
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 17 January 2018 07: 50
      0
      Quote: Herkulesich
      they we brought to their banks in the revolution Russian gold

      already set off.
  4. askort154
    askort154 17 January 2018 06: 42
    +2
    The paddling trees are likened to sprats. But they themselves forgot how they burned Moscow, and how much does it cost ?!
    1. gukoyan
      gukoyan 17 January 2018 08: 03
      0
      They did not burn anything.
      1. LSA57
        LSA57 17 January 2018 08: 47
        +3
        she burned herself. and before that, the Kremlin itself exploded
    2. weksha50
      weksha50 17 January 2018 16: 49
      +1
      Quote: askort154
      But they themselves forgot how they burned Moscow, and how much does it cost ?!


      Ahem ... Actually, Moscow burned, set fire to ours .... precisely in order to create "uncomfortable" conditions for the French in Moscow ...
      So this reproach needs to be dismissed ... But are there really few attacks on Russia and its robbery?
      How many times have the French visited hostile targets in Russia? Without listing the centuries and years - the Far East, Kamchatka, the North of Russia (Murmansk-Arkhangelsk, etc.), Sevastopol, the Patriotic War of 1812, World War II - the Great Patriotic War ... I did not miss anything?
      We visited on its territory only 2 times ... And then - in response ...
      I still regret that not one of the emperors of Russia made France and Germany vassals-regions of Russia ... What's the point ... the current “reformers” would have let everyone go ...
  5. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 17 January 2018 06: 43
    +6
    I want money so much that even legal groundlessness of claims does not stop. Well, let them turn to the courts and pay for legal costs. What queue with spoons lined up for the Russian bowler across Europe and you can’t catch your eye.
    1. Cube123
      Cube123 17 January 2018 06: 59
      +4
      Quote: rotmistr60
      I want money so much that even legal groundlessness of claims does not stop.

      The essence of the claims is incomprehensible. The bonds were issued by the Main Society of Russian Railways. Therefore, you need to apply to this address. Whence follows, that it is a state debt?
      1. weksha50
        weksha50 17 January 2018 16: 52
        +1
        Quote: Cube123
        The essence of the claims is incomprehensible. The bonds were issued by the Main Society of Russian Railways. Therefore, you need to apply to this address.


        Hmm ... Under the USSR - Russian Railways did not exist ... And now - it seems to be ... Why not try ??? laughing Catching a fish in troubled waters ... Gives - will not ... Turns out - does not work ... But nerves - I help ...
    2. LSA57
      LSA57 17 January 2018 07: 23
      +2
      Quote: rotmistr60
      I want money so much that even legal groundlessness of claims does not stop.

      to whom I owe everyone, who owes me, please give laughing
    3. Orionvit
      Orionvit 17 January 2018 09: 20
      +2
      Quote: rotmistr60
      I want money so much that even legal groundlessness of claims does not stop

      In the West, they are accustomed to the fact that with a cunning lawyer, compensation can be obtained in court, even in the most absurd lawsuit. But in today's Russia, as they say, "such geese do not fly."
  6. Sofa expert
    Sofa expert 17 January 2018 06: 47
    +6
    The head from the male device to their collar ... the USSR clearly said everything

    '' However, the Land of Soviets quickly explained that there was no question of paying off the “tsarist" debts by the Soviet government and Soviet citizens. ''
  7. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 17 January 2018 06: 55
    +2
    Insolent ball-skiers. Not only did we not let them blow up Paris, we are also unhappy with something. They need to send a kilo of frogs. Nehai burst. repeat
    1. LSA57
      LSA57 17 January 2018 07: 19
      +2
      Quote: Mordvin 3
      Not only did we not let them blow Paris

      when is that? belay not confused with Krakow?
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 17 January 2018 08: 58
        +3
        No, I don’t confuse. During the war with Napoleon, the garrison of Paris planned to blow up the city at the approach of the Russian troops. Our parliamentary general (I don’t remember his last name) persuaded them not to do this. The garrison left Paris on honorable terms. Something like this. I’ve read about it for a long time, and I don’t remember exactly.
        1. LSA57
          LSA57 17 January 2018 11: 40
          +2
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          No, I don’t confuse. During the war with Napoleon, the garrison of Paris planned to blow up the city at the approach of the Russian troops.

          Sorry, didn’t know. I thought you were closer smile
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 17 January 2018 11: 54
            +2
            By the way, in Paris, Count Vorontsov paid all the officer debts. One and a half million, sort of.
            1. LSA57
              LSA57 17 January 2018 12: 41
              +2
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              By the way, in Paris, Count Vorontsov paid all the officer debts.

              read about it
    2. Non liberoid Russian
      Non liberoid Russian 17 January 2018 07: 35
      +1
      Chernobyl ... and large, and tasty, and then will shine, save on lighting with
    3. weksha50
      weksha50 17 January 2018 16: 54
      +2
      Quote: Mordvin 3
      They need to send a kilo of frogs. Nehai burst.


      Why pamper?

      A herring with cucumbers, but milk - not to spare the tonnage, for all bondholders ... In a day it will become clear in the brains ... lol
  8. bratchanin3
    bratchanin3 17 January 2018 06: 57
    +3
    The Western world since its inception has lived at the expense of someone: robbed, robbed, extorted. Starting from Carthage, lived at the expense of others. The turn came to the very West.
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 17 January 2018 09: 21
      0
      Quote: bratchanin3

      1
      bratchanin3 Today, 06:57 AM New
      The Western world since its inception has lived at the expense of someone: robbed, robbed, extorted. Starting from Carthage, lived at the expense of others. The turn came to the very West.

      Citizens of France demand redemption of bonds, where "extorted" here? If demanded as the Latvians for the occupation, I would agree with you.
      In Russia, the proverb is "Debt by payment is beautiful," and bonds are debt.
      1. bratchanin3
        bratchanin3 19 January 2018 10: 51
        0
        There is never and never was a guarantee of 100% repayment of debt, there is always a risk of loss, all usurious activity is built on this risk. The French financed one state, but this state disappeared. In essence, Russia, this is the third formation, after the Russian Empire, especially since Russia symbolically repaid this debt and France agreed to repayment. We are talking about the Western mentality of a person when his own is sacred, and the alien is insignificant. This is a phenomenon of the same order, one mentality, that Latvians, Poles, and now the French have also shown their mugs. There is not even a hint of justice and decency in the West and that’s all (Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Crimea, turbines for thermal power plants, fascists on the streets with torches .............
    2. would
      would 18 January 2018 11: 02
      0
      The Western world since its inception has lived at the expense of someone: robbed, robbed, extorted. Starting from Carthage, lived at the expense of others.


      As the others. Or do you want to say that the Rus did not run into Byzantium and did not besiege Constantinople?
  9. Fedorov
    Fedorov 17 January 2018 06: 58
    +2
    Well, let him go to the Basmanny Court of Moscow, they will be sent there, from where they will not return. It is possible in Pechersky-Starokievsky in Kiev. The result will be the same.
    Insanity has no boundaries.
    Keitel’s kind of pince-nez fell when he signed the Act of Surrender - and the French? did they defeat us too?
    You can bill for the Yak-3 squadron "Normandy-Neman" for example.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 17 January 2018 07: 08
      +2
      Quote: Fedorov
      Keitel’s kind of pince-nez fell when he signed the Act of Surrender - and the French? did they defeat us too?

      No, it's like Jodl pinned.
      1. Fedorov
        Fedorov 17 January 2018 07: 20
        +2
        I remember, I don’t remember everything. hi
    2. LSA57
      LSA57 17 January 2018 07: 21
      +1
      Quote: Fedorov
      You can bill for the Yak-3 squadron "Normandy-Neman" for example.

      well yes. The USSR gave, but the heirs of Yakovlev will sue laughing
      it will be fun when they get out laughing
  10. nivander
    nivander 17 January 2018 07: 10
    +4
    in the museum of the defense of Leningrad, half of the captured guns, French dressing
    1. Fedorov
      Fedorov 17 January 2018 07: 30
      +3
      Damn, the whole Soviet Union was wrapped, from the Far East to Brest and the Carpathians, but was not in Leningrad. Some shame.
  11. Vard
    Vard 17 January 2018 07: 13
    +1
    There is a nominal value of securities and a market ... So the market value of these securities is slightly lower than the plinth ... Although they can present claims to the descendants of the royal family, which by the way do not live in poverty ...
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 17 January 2018 09: 23
      0
      Quote: Vard
      Although they can present a claim to the descendants of the royal family, who by the way do not live in poverty ...

      They bought bonds from the state and not from members of the royal family.
    2. a housewife
      a housewife 17 January 2018 09: 49
      +3
      very close relatives of the royal family - the English royal family. Why are they not being addressed?
  12. Strashila
    Strashila 17 January 2018 07: 20
    +2
    Actually what to discuss ... drove.
  13. Altona
    Altona 17 January 2018 07: 42
    0
    Lermontov’s immortal line "say, uncle, it’s not for free, Moscow, burned to the fire by a Frenchman given away," began to play with new colors.
    1. a housewife
      a housewife 17 January 2018 09: 50
      +1
      Only Lermontov's "not without reason." Do you understand the difference?
  14. Altona
    Altona 17 January 2018 07: 44
    +1
    Quote: Fedorov
    Damn, the whole Soviet Union was wrapped, from the Far East to Brest and the Carpathians, but was not in Leningrad. Some shame.

    --------------------------
    I’m just like you almost, I won’t get to Peter either. But in the shaggy 1986, I was going to give up on Peter to study, but remained in Moscow. The city is big, why go further? laughing hi
  15. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 17 January 2018 08: 04
    +9
    The dog is buried very deeply and the problem is global for us. And consider this with French debt. In the 19th century, the French citizen was quite rich and preferred to live on rent from his fortune, which he kept in French banks. These same banks were the largest in Europe and a significant part of their assets were accumulations of citizens. In other countries, this has not yet been observed. Tsarist Russia took both government loans from the governments of France and Germany, as well as private loans from French banks under state guarantees. In 1917, Lenin refused succession with Tsarist Russia and forgave everyone our debts, and this became the legal basis of the Soviet Union. We did not recognize for ourselves any royal debts, but we did not demand the foreign assets of Tsarist Russia in the form of land plots, farmsteads, well, and much more. In preparing the 1993 Constitution, Yeltsin and his team wanted to introduce a provision on the continuity of succession of the Russian Federation, the USSR, the Provisional Government, and Tsarist Russia. On the one hand, we recognized all royal debts, but on the other hand, we could claim back all foreign assets. Of particular interest was the ability to retroactively enforce enforcement acts. For example, the Constitutional Court recognizes that the transfer, first of Donbass, and then of Crimea to Ukraine, is not in accordance with applicable law, and no one can dispute this. However, the United States literally presented Russia with an ultimatum on this subject, regardless of France’s position, and Yeltsin won back by introducing into the Constitution a provision only on succession from the USSR. This was required by the presence of nuclear weapons, otherwise the United States would not have allowed it. After the Constitution was already adopted, the United States again slightly changed its position (such bastards they are) and supported the demand of France to pay debts. This requirement was due to the impossibility of obtaining further loans from the IMF and Yeltsin once again caved in. And by agreement of 27.05.1997/400/XNUMX, the state part of the debt in the amount of $ XNUMX million was paid to France. The payment itself was illegal from the point of view of the 1993 Constitution, but Kudrin and Kozyrev convinced Yeltsin that there was a legal way to avoid this ban, for this it was necessary to prepare some papers and pass them through the Duma. However, something went wrong and these documents did not see the light of day. As a result, the Constitutional Court has as many as three requests from the Communist Party and the Rodin party regarding the illegality of payments and they don’t know what to do with these requests. Yeltsin died, Kozyrev washed off in the United States, and the payments themselves fell literally on the first days of Putin’s premiership, and he simply could not delve into such a complex issue, and Kudrin, of course, completely blotted it out. Today's analysis of the text of this Agreement reveals two conflicting statements. On the one hand, the Russian Federation does not recognize the existence of a debt to French citizens through banks lending to the Tsar, and on the other hand, the French government will never give up this part of the debt and will provide assistance to its citizens. Here is such an interesting Agreement signed by Kudrin. Now it turns out that the mercantile French never throw away their securities, were able to organize themselves in public organizations and are now starting to file claims in the direction of the Russian Federation. First to the French courts, and then naturally they will reach the pan-European ones. And there it turns out that the first has already set a precedent for the payment of part of this debt, and secondly, once again, we will find our stupidity in the form of the primacy of international law over national law, and this is again enshrined in our Constitution. I think that this is only a matter of time about forcing us to pay. As they say, who chooses between war and shame, gets both. Debts must be paid, and it is difficult to object to this.
    For myself, I see it this way. The text as amended by the Constitution in the block with some documents is submitted to the referendum. Some documents are our confirmation of the independence of Poland, Finland and the Baltic states. Other contradictions should be resolved through the Constitutional Court. Thus, we confirm the borders of Poland in 1920, and through the Constitutional Court we recognize the illegal transfer to Poland of part of East Prussia in 1945. And so on according to the list: “Kemska volost” in Estonia, Donbass in Ukraine, Transnistria in Moldova in full compliance with the rule of law to the very logical end.
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 17 January 2018 09: 38
      0
      Quote: Jurkovs
      The dog is buried very deeply and the problem is global for us.

      I fully support.
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 17 January 2018 11: 16
        +1
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        I fully support.

        Ndaa. That’s interesting, but what about the Russians who are Soviet, at least someone owes something? Or is one "thank you" enough?
        1. Antares
          Antares 17 January 2018 12: 36
          0
          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          Ndaa. That’s interesting, but what about the Russians who are Soviet, at least someone owes something? Or is one "thank you" enough?

          the debts of other countries of the USSR passed to the Russian Federation, constantly the news that they wrote off in exchange for something. The list is large.
          1. Jurkovs
            Jurkovs 18 January 2018 08: 29
            0
            Giving cheap tied loans to underdeveloped countries is one of the ways Western countries support their own economies. These debts are periodically written off. since in Western economies they have already paid for themselves. The USSR supplied weapons to developing countries and formalized this as a soft loan. Actually, it cost us a little, weapons came from storage depots, which still have T-34 tanks and machine guns that can be used to arm our entire population four times. At the next massive write-off of debts to developing countries, the West invited Russia to this process. We first refused, but the West carried out information processing of countries formerly dependent on the USSR, and they began to declare refusal to pay these debts, arguing that the USSR had provoked fratricidal war in these countries with this money, and were going to conduct this thesis through the General Assembly Resolution UN. This could end for us with large foreign policy losses, Russia could finally lose ground in Africa. Therefore, Russia joined this massive write-off of debts. No need to regret this money, it’s mostly empty warehouse loans.
    2. a housewife
      a housewife 17 January 2018 09: 54
      +1
      but it’s interesting, once they plan to repay debts to all our people from whom property was taken after the revolution? At least to those who were then rehabilitated?
  16. Dietmar
    Dietmar 17 January 2018 08: 04
    +2
    At one time in Ukraine they remembered that once, before Tsar Gorokh, the hetman Polubotok handed over the cash desk to England for storage. And now the direct descendants of the protoucurs can get the box office back. And this, taking into account the percent, TRILLIONS! That freebie has come!
    1. Karayakupovo
      Karayakupovo 17 January 2018 08: 24
      +1
      So they put forward claims to the Mongols for Batu Khan. But the Mongols did not refuse, but asked to confirm kinship with the victims of the invasion of Batu. And for the French, what if the relatives of those Russian soldiers who died on the fields of France during the 1st World War invoice France?
      1. Antares
        Antares 17 January 2018 12: 37
        0
        Quote: Dietmar
        Hetman Polubotok deposited the cash desk in England.

        legend like gold Orlik
        Quote: Karayakupovo
        as they and claims to the Mongols put up for Batu Khan.

        fake like the answer of Mongolia
  17. Azazelo
    Azazelo 17 January 2018 08: 25
    +1
    Let your paper work.
  18. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 17 January 2018 08: 39
    +5
    And now the members of this association are demanding payments from the Russian Federation, which may ultimately amount to up to 30 billion euros.

    Immediately after the start of the First World War, five tons of gold coins from the personal royal treasury were secretly placed in two railway cars and taken to Norway, where they are still located. Moreover, some of the coins are sold at numismatic auctions.

    In 1914, Russian gold bullion was transferred to British banks in the amount of $ 50 billion. They planned to pay for them for the supply of military equipment and weapons. None of them have been completed. It turned out that the British factories are simply not able to fulfill such a large order. But the gold was not returned. War, you know, once. And in 17, there seems to have been nobody ...

    From December 1915 to November 1916, Russia supplied gold to the US for $ 23 billion as a prepayment for weapons and gunpowder. The United States government spent money on its own military needs. Russia received neither money nor weapons.

    Realizing that England and the United States had stolen the money, the Russian government, hoping to obtain weapons, credited the equivalent of 1916 tons of gold to Japanese banks' foreign currency accounts in 300. The transfer is confirmed today by the successors of the then Japanese banks. But they are not going to give either weapons or money.

    In February 1917, the provisional government of Russia sent 3,7 tons of gold to Sweden for the purchase of military equipment, now it is $ 45 million. Back in 1928, confirmation was received that gold was in the vaults of Swedish banks. Russia has not received a single rifle, not a single cartridge from Sweden as a result of this gold.

    At the end of 1919, the 100 tons of gold seized by Admiral Kolchak from the Kazan bank vault were deposited with the Czechoslovak Corps on condition of returning to the Russian government. Gold trail was lost in Prague banks in 1925.

    In 1922, Lenin sent 93,5 tons of gold to Germany, which turned out to be a "trophy" in the "Bank de France" in Paris. In 1963, the status of this gold was confirmed by an agreement at the level of the governments of the USSR and France. The Russian side agreed to give 45 tons to pay off old Russian debts in favor of France. And 48,5 tons of gold have not yet been returned to us.

    The National Bank of France also holds $ 25 billion worth of Russian gold bullion transferred in 1914.

    According to the estimates of the British firm Pinkerton, Russia is now entitled to claim its gold worth $ 100 billion, as well as real estate worth $ 300 billion.
  19. Livonetc
    Livonetc 17 January 2018 08: 47
    +2
    You have to pay.
    But with the condition of the restoration of the Russian Empire.
    Poland and Finland back.
    Well, Chukhontsev and accept.
    So let's go!
    1. rotmistr60
      rotmistr60 17 January 2018 09: 05
      +3
      I want to add that bonds of loans of the Russian Empire were issued including for the construction of Odessa and the development of the Baku deposits. Ukraine and Azerbaijan should also scratch their turnips, as then developed at the expense of Russia, and today modestly went into the fog. France is facilitating the return of these sovereigns to the fold of Russia, and Russia will think about resolving the issue of returning "debts."
      1. Antares
        Antares 17 January 2018 12: 41
        0
        Quote: rotmistr60
        Russian Empire issued including for the construction of Odessa and the development of the Baku deposits. Ukraine and Azerbaijan also have to scratch their turnips,

        so judging by the legal succession, Ukraine and An do not pretend to RI or the property of the USSR (everything went to the Russian Federation), at least physically and legally (they said something in words, I'm talking about Ukraine)
  20. thinker
    thinker 17 January 2018 09: 13
    +1
    You can wish these violinists (collecting old bonds and share certificates) - keep on.
    Securities issued by long-forgotten joint-stock companies and governments that have sunk into oblivion are growing in value. The cost of one royal bond in the Moscow market ranges from $ 30 to $ 200
    http://antikvarus.ru/library/byt%CA%B9-skripofilo
    m-ne-menee-vygodno-cem-derzatelem-gko /
  21. K-50
    K-50 17 January 2018 09: 37
    +1
    French citizens file lawsuits against Russia to pay “royal debts”

    I wonder why royal debts are related only to Russia?
    At the time when the debt was formed, Russia also included Finland and Poland, not counting triboltuses and other Ukrainian-Georgian armenia, etc.
    If there is such an appeal and a decision on collection, then let them spread according to the population of all countries that were previously included in the debt formation period, so to speak, “in preporter”.
    Of course, Russia will not pay anything, such as:
    Interstate disputes between the French Republic and the Russian Federation on the issue of "Russian loans" were liquidated by the signing on May 27, 1997 of an agreement between the two countries, according to which France and Russia mutually refuse all financial debts that arose between them before May 9, 1945

    So let them go through the woods. angry
  22. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 17 January 2018 09: 44
    +1
    Convenient position in Paris. Interestingly, the current Russian authorities can just as quickly explain to the French the futility of such demands?
  23. 23424636
    23424636 17 January 2018 09: 55
    0
    when Blank (Ulyanov) sent 3 echelons of Russian gold to Germany, the last echelon came to the French as compensation for Germany under the Treaty of Versailles, part of the funds went to support white emigration, but the lion's share settled in the Central Bank of France. This allowed this survivor on Russian bayonets country sharply gazanut in its development .. Stalin did his best to return the king's gold stolen by Jewish Bolsheviks. and was very worried that the barely alive Bronstein (Trotsky), who had recovered, immediately recovered and enriched himself. The latter was Krupskaya, who kept codes and codes in the banks of Switzerland, but she was also brought to the level of consent, preventing them from meeting their natural needs on time and other persuasions.
  24. alexmach
    alexmach 17 January 2018 09: 59
    0
    Would you like a joke? Do you know where these same roads are now, for the construction of which a loan was taken? In which country - countries are they now located?
    1. faiver
      faiver 17 January 2018 11: 06
      +2
      Baltic states, Ukraine and Poland, as I understand it laughing
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 17 January 2018 18: 35
        +1
        Yes sir. Roads are first of all built for the needs of the coming war.
        1. faiver
          faiver 17 January 2018 20: 03
          0
          Well, don’t let the French turn to them for grandmas laughing
  25. Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky 17 January 2018 10: 32
    +1
    Yeah, the Russians directly ran away, pay all debts to everyone .... Chew your grape snails directly with the shell and rejoice that Russia did not expose you debts for your Napoleonic raids.
  26. svp67
    svp67 17 January 2018 11: 30
    0
    according to which France and Russia mutually refuse all financial debts that arose between them before May 9, 1945, and also refrain from supporting the claims of their citizens related to these debts.
    Yes, already ... and we gave them the combat “Yaks” immediately after May 9 and forgot about France’s participation in the war against us, on the side of Nazi Germany, not only did France enter Gaul into the ranks of the UN WINNERS and the UN Security Council.
  27. Altona
    Altona 17 January 2018 11: 40
    0
    Quote: housewife
    Only Lermontov's "not without reason." Do you understand the difference?

    ----------------------------
    I understand the difference and specifically divided the word and even wrote a capsloc. Do you understand sarcasm? Or do you have a spelling dictionary in your head only?
  28. Antares
    Antares 17 January 2018 12: 43
    0
    an interesting situation, Paris has no complaints, but citizens have, to prohibit (satisfy themselves) Paris cannot and will help them legally.
    Lawyers will not remain without work in this world.
  29. HMR333
    HMR333 17 January 2018 13: 32
    0
    the best thing is that they can sell them to collectors for at least some money!
  30. Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 17 January 2018 13: 47
    +2
    Simple and tasteful. Go in the ass.
  31. balabol
    balabol 17 January 2018 13: 54
    0
    In the city of Pushkin (Tsarskoye Selo) in 2014 a museum of the First World War was opened. Very informative and interesting exposition. In the lecture hall of the museum, lectures are held on certain aspects of the WWII. Performers are historians and researchers at the Tsarskoye Selo Museum.
    The question about the financial relations and debts of the Entente countries was answered scientifically evasively.
    1. Various credit lines - government, between companies, interbank, borrowed funds in the market of private investors.
    2. Various purchases were repeatedly re-credited at various banks and in different states.
    3. Not a lot of prepaid orders.
    4. Soviet Russia during the period of industrialization settled part of its debts when purchasing equipment from foreign companies, which was not advertised in the open press.
    Only the painstaking, long and honest work of specialists from the USA, Britain, Japan in the national archives will allow an objective answer to the questions of Who? To whom? How many?
  32. Nemesis
    Nemesis 17 January 2018 15: 06
    +2
    And when will the EU banks return the gold stolen in Russia ?!
  33. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 18 January 2018 09: 46
    0
    [quote] [/ From a statement by a ministry official:
    Interstate disputes between the French Republic and the Russian Federation on the issue of “Russian loans” were liquidated by signing on May 27, 1997 an agreement between the two countries, according to which France and Russia mutually refuse all financial debts that arose between them before May 9, 1945, and abstain from supporting the claims of their citizens related to these debts .quote]
    According to this agreement, francs can demand payment on these pieces of paper now only from their tolerant government, and not from the Russian Federation. The plaintiff improperly selected the Respondent, a trial is impossible. Such lawsuits by citizens have once again shown that not everything is as good in the EU with the economy as they tell us, although against the background of our problems, everything is fine with them. wink
  34. fridge
    fridge 18 January 2018 09: 56
    0
    From a dead donkey ears, and no more!)))
  35. Irbenwolf
    Irbenwolf 18 January 2018 09: 58
    0
    Glue the wallpaper. And 30 billion is a "payment" for all those who remained lying in the trenches of the First World War on the eastern front.