Military Review

Chinese Air Force conducted the first stealth fighter exercises

147
The Chinese army masters the latest stealth fighters. According to the portal janes.com, the Chinese Air Force conducted the first maneuvers in which Chengdu J-20 aircraft were involved.


Chinese Air Force conducted the first stealth fighter exercises


Chengdu J-20 fighters entered service with the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force last year. In March, 2017, Reuters journalists reported that the Chinese Air Force received the first copies of Chengdu J-20 stealth fighters, and in September, the press service of the Ministry of Defense of the PRC officially announced their adoption.

The exercises using J-20 were held in secrecy at one of the military bases of the Chinese Air Force. For nine days, "several J-20 conducted realistic maneuvers with the J-16 and J-10C fighters." The details of the exercises in the PLA do not reveal.

The J-20 fighter was developed by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation and assembled at the Chengdu Aircraft Industry. The manufacturer positions the aircraft as a fifth-generation fighter, equipped with advanced electronics and built using stealth technology, while all the technical information about it is classified. The first flight of the prototype J-20 took place in 2011, the official demonstration - at the airshow in Zhuhai in 2016, transmits "Warspot"
Photos used:
people.com.cn
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  1. foreman
    foreman 16 January 2018 17: 14
    +1
    and our engines?
    1. oldseaman1957
      oldseaman1957 16 January 2018 17: 17
      31
      Quote: Sergeant Major
      and our engines?
      - At their pace of development, IT is even ridiculous to hope for IT! Our main enemy is our malleable economy. If this year the Gaidarites are not kicked, you can safely record yourself in a promising Chinese satellite.
      1. Vladimir16
        Vladimir16 16 January 2018 17: 21
        23
        Quote: oldseaman1957
        - At their pace of development, IT is even ridiculous to hope for IT!

        Do not confuse the pace of development with economic growth? You can produce and sell billions of iPhones, but not produce a single engine for a fifth-generation aircraft. And vice versa.
        1. KVU-NSVD
          KVU-NSVD 16 January 2018 17: 26
          34
          Unfortunately, no one has convincingly refuted the laws of dialectics - quantitative changes lead to qualitative
          1. Thrall
            Thrall 16 January 2018 19: 02
            +5
            For example, I am surprised why the Chinese did not nominate the aircraft for the 6th generation. Do not be shysmile
          2. Lock36
            Lock36 16 January 2018 20: 36
            +4
            Quote: KVU-NSVD
            Unfortunately, no one has convincingly refuted the laws of dialectics

            I would say that I have not proved yet: out of 50 turkeys there is no way to get one eagle.
            1. KVU-NSVD
              KVU-NSVD 16 January 2018 20: 46
              +7
              Without at least 10 conditional turkeys, the conditional eagle will die of hunger. Simple conditional ecological pyramid repeat
              1. Lock36
                Lock36 16 January 2018 22: 12
                +2
                Is it that this "type 5 generation airplane" will become fodder? How much they do not produce shitty aircraft engines, trying to copy ours, but are still inferior in both traction and resource.
                And there is a chance to never catch up and no philosophy will help, there are already a whole herd of such on the planet.
                1. opus
                  opus 17 January 2018 00: 13
                  +5
                  Quote: Lock36
                  How much they do not produce shitty aircraft engines, trying to copy ours, but they still yield to both the load and the resource.

                  ?
                  Russia has developed improved versions of the AL-31F from 99M1 to 99M4, but China has also developed improved versions of WS-10, WS-10A and WS-10B better than Russian, with a weight factor of 9, more than in Russia and a longer service life of 1500 hours against 800 hours from the old version.

                  A third production line has recently been launched for the production of J-20A. Since each line is one J-20 per month,
                  their total production capacity will be 36 per year.

                  J-20B is an improved version of J-20, installed with the new Chinese powerful turbofan engines WS-15 Emei. China has already developed a universal vector (thrust vectoring controlled) WS-15 turbojet engine with a 10 pull-weight coefficient, it is now undergoing intensive tests and will be ready for installation in the J-20B for the 2019 year.

                  Through the use of the WS-15, the J-20B cruising formless speed will be Mach 1.8, and the maximum speed exceeds Mach 2.2, equal to the speed of the US F-22. China will manufacture the 500 J-20B, more than the future the total number of fifth-generation fighter jets in the Asia-Pacific region for anyone. And maybe 4go generation in addition.

                  China's $ 16 Billion Ambition to Develop the best aircraft engines in the world
                  Engine for VTOL aircraft
                  1. Lock36
                    Lock36 17 January 2018 19: 04
                    +1
                    Just like the Americans with the lunar program. They could not copy the engine to the licensed Dryers, they bought everything from us, at that time! And immediately for the fighter 5 generations created!
                    Well, of course I believe ...
          3. zyzx
            zyzx 17 January 2018 06: 03
            0
            Well, yeah, well, yeah, the Chinese have been harassing gunpowder for hundreds of years, and they were not keen on making a rifle bike. And the wretched Europeans, as they saw the gunpowder, immediately realized what was happening.
            1. Viktor.12.71
              Viktor.12.71 18 January 2018 07: 19
              0
              Quote: zyzx
              Well, yeah, well, yeah, the Chinese have been harassing gunpowder for hundreds of years, and they were not keen on making a rifle bike. And the wretched Europeans, as they saw the gunpowder, immediately realized what was happening.

              You shouldn’t be so. The Chinese in the 13th century already indulged in a gunshot. They also had the first analogues of arquebus. But in one you are right, European guns were the best at times. Pictured is a 13th century Chinese cannon.
              1. Mih1974
                Mih1974 18 February 2018 23: 04
                0
                So that's the point - well, suppose that even the Chinese invented gunpowder (also a muddy story, like silk and porcelain) "and sho that." For hundreds of years, they were all kinds of fireworks and half-shot, and as soon as the Europeans got to the gunpowder, a star raced over the bumps. And after a couple of hundred years, Europeans were already brought out by the Chinese firearm as suckers (the famous boxing uprising).
                In due time - having created a richest state, with enormous potential, everyone was prosral and "collapsed into themselves." fool The same Columbus, an adventurer and a balab, just got on three ships and "discovered" America for the EU, on which Spain was fabulously enriched. China equipped "research expedition" in more than 300 ships !!! belay All local "princes" rafted and carried along the road, but at home "the world is not worth learning to cut it - chop everything up, burn the fleet." belay Hk, hk - SHO?
                Actually now - China is studying the experience of others and stealing ideas. Well, at least one modern Chinese technology can anyone bring?
        2. yehat
          yehat 16 January 2018 17: 48
          +4
          Duc without conditional iPhones there will be no engine.
          1. Sands Careers General
            Sands Careers General 16 January 2018 18: 57
            15
            DPRK without conventional smartphones has created nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles.
            1. True
              True 16 January 2018 19: 56
              +7
              Quote: General of the Sand Quarries
              DPRK without conventional smartphones has created nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles.

              You are mistaken. They have their own smartphones, Arirang. But in one super-stainless ...
              1. Sands Careers General
                Sands Careers General 16 January 2018 20: 18
                +8
                They have their own smartphones, Arirang.

                Therefore, these are not “conditional smartphones”, but real ones.

                But in one super-stainless ...

                What is this verbal cadaver?
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 17 January 2018 01: 47
                +1
                But in one superpower there are civilian and military supercomputers, as well as its own software and CAD.
            2. yehat
              yehat 17 January 2018 00: 32
              +1
              she didn’t create anything — all technologies were transferred from the USSR
        3. True
          True 16 January 2018 19: 01
          15
          We have no iPhones or engines. Look, maybe the cowards on you are Chinese.
          1. Freeman
            Freeman 16 January 2018 21: 00
            +5
            Quote: True
            We have no iPhones or engines. Look, maybe the cowards on you are Chinese.

            [quote-] "product 30"?
            - No, I didn’t hear ... [/ quote]
            This year already in the plan wink
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 17 January 2018 01: 49
            0
            We don’t need iPhones, but we do a lot of engines, starting from automobile - freight and ending with YARDU.
        4. faiver
          faiver 16 January 2018 19: 14
          +2
          sooner or later the quantity goes into quality ....
        5. complete zero
          complete zero 16 January 2018 20: 22
          +9
          The Chinese have long .. profit (from "manufactured and sold iPhones") .. are allowed to develop their own technologies (including the production of internal combustion engines) .. so don’t worry ... they will have their own engines and not only ... (and here's what will appear with us) .. big doubts
        6. Esoteric
          Esoteric 16 January 2018 20: 54
          11
          Quote: Vladimir16
          You can produce and sell billions of iPhones, but not produce a single engine for a fifth-generation aircraft.

          And you can produce engines for fifth-generation airplanes, air defense systems that have no equal in the world and watch American planes plowing the sky in an unnecessary place for us, walk in Chinese clothes and shoes and be proud to have to live in shit. But, most importantly, beat the face of those who do not want to live like this ...
          We had a chance to remain the first country in the world of socialism, but ... our leaders chose a different region and a different system ...
          1. tezey
            tezey 16 January 2018 21: 05
            +2
            I apologize, but the leaders you are writing about are not ours. These are the leaders of the capitalists and compradors.
      2. Skifotavr
        Skifotavr 16 January 2018 20: 56
        0
        Quote: oldseaman1957
        Quote: Sergeant Major
        and our engines?
        - At their pace of development, IT is even ridiculous to hope for IT!

        Regarding the engines it will be correct to say - at their rate of copying. wink
      3. RASKAT
        RASKAT 16 January 2018 21: 03
        +9
        Our main enemy is our malleable economy.
        The economic success of China, and the frantic growth of its economy is achieved only in the same ways as in China. Let us litter all our rivers and lands in order to ensure the lowest possible cost of minerals and resources, in the first place the cheapest possible Kilowatt of energy and a ton of steel. And in order to ensure the cheapness of the final product, we will introduce a twelve-hour working day, a seven-day working week with one day off per month, we will refuse social security, pensions, and high salaries, and shoot all those who disagree as enemies of the homeland. As it was in China, South Korea, India, and a number of Asian countries. You are the first to conquer from such a life.
        1. Korax71
          Korax71 17 January 2018 02: 10
          0
          About South Korea smiled
          1. Mih1974
            Mih1974 18 February 2018 23: 18
            0
            Have you been there, worked as a simple worker, and not as a tourist? "I love looking at the rain with the wind and lightning, at the dogs in the booth - sitting in a warm house with a cup of coffee" (c)
            Everyone - clean the streets, but - let someone else sweep, everyone wants hot water and clean cold 24/7, but - let the plumber dig in the sewer shit and in the damp and stink.
            It is easy to set an example of a “beautiful” foreign country, and you first “make and make beautiful” your own, in order to judge other countries and how you have achieved this.
    2. Azazelo
      Azazelo 16 January 2018 18: 03
      +1
      Of course .... this J20 or whatever it is .... only a purely externally 5th generation fighter. There are probably 3+ or 4 no more. Well, about the same fake as the lards of the population of China, which actually do not exist.
      1. svp67
        svp67 16 January 2018 18: 07
        +2
        Quote: Azazelo
        this J20 or whatever it is .... only a purely externally 5th generation fighter.

        With his front wheels? Yes, it should glow on locators no worse than 4 ++++
        1. dauria
          dauria 16 January 2018 18: 31
          +3
          With his front wheels? Yes, it should glow on locators no worse than 4 ++++


          "Front wheels" did not come up with boobs (and it is not steering wheels). They allow you to balance the aircraft both at subsonic speed and supersonic while maintaining good aerodynamic quality. And between aerodynamics and the EPR you have to choose a compromise. Who guessed, another question. I doubt that the "invisible" F-35 will be able to act with impunity in the air defense zone of the front. And even this is not the main thing - but the reserve of technology, specialists and experience.
          1. svp67
            svp67 16 January 2018 18: 34
            +1
            Quote: dauria
            "Front wheels" did not come up with boobies.

            Yes, but they immediately sharply increase the visibility of the aircraft, what then is the "fifth generation"?
            1. Vita vko
              Vita vko 16 January 2018 18: 50
              +2
              Quote: svp67
              Yes, but they immediately sharply increase the visibility of the aircraft,

              The same carbon fiber as most elements of the aircraft. Compared to the engine, they contribute a fraction of a percent to the increase in EPR. You can generally build all-plastic or wooden, but that will not make it a 5th generation airplane. Here the main struggle is the ability to conduct reconnaissance and use weapons while remaining invisible to the enemy’s radio and infrared intelligence.
              1. Esoteric
                Esoteric 16 January 2018 21: 01
                +2
                Quote: Vita VKO
                Here the main struggle is the ability to conduct reconnaissance and use weapons while remaining invisible to the enemy’s radio and infrared intelligence.

                What do you say? Yes, be three times invisible, but stop speed he must have a cruising supersonic ... And yet - the requirements for stealth and the placement of weapons inside the fuselage ...
            2. dauria
              dauria 16 January 2018 19: 13
              +7
              Yes, but they immediately sharply increase the visibility of the aircraft, what then is the "fifth generation"?


              This is a plane. Its purpose is to complete a combat mission, and not remain invisible. Any aircraft is a bunch of compromises between a bunch of conflicting requirements. Whoever guesses where this golden mean is now located is on horseback. And the examples of "guessing" a lot of both us and the Americans. They guessed much less often, so much so that they themselves were surprised. Did anyone think half a century ago that the Tu-95 and B-52 will still be needed, and no worse than the B-1, B-2, Tu-160? All the same, no one will enter the air defense zone; supersonic is not needed. Only range and missiles.
              1. svp67
                svp67 16 January 2018 19: 16
                +5
                Quote: dauria
                Whoever guesses where this golden mean is now located is on horseback.

                And all this can be verified only in one place - above the battlefield ... Well, well, maybe you are right.
                1. Vita vko
                  Vita vko 16 January 2018 19: 34
                  +1
                  Quote: svp67
                  everything can be checked in only one place - above the battlefield

                  Most modern missile and aviation weapons have never been used in combat conditions against their counterparts. Therefore, only independent specialists at the training ground can compare here. Who will let them go there? The only place left is demonstration firing and testing during international tenders. But in this case, all participants in such competitions sign confidentiality agreements and information in the media, as a rule, does not leak.
                  1. Mih1974
                    Mih1974 18 February 2018 23: 22
                    +1
                    I advise you to recall how much the braggings of the German "leoperds" were until their Turks drove to Syria crying negative All the beautiful legend is a dog under the tail. It turned out that the poor “Leo” was burning from both our old ATGMs and modern American ones.
                    Therefore - what kind of "beast" is this Chinese cadaver, we can find out in a future war when they even use it somewhere.
            3. Herman 4223
              Herman 4223 16 January 2018 21: 59
              +1
              And the wing does not increase the visibility of the aircraft? And it’s even larger in area than the PGO. Then you can refuse the wings on the plane. There is still a question of what it is made of. Radio absorbing material may not reflect.
        2. opus
          opus 17 January 2018 00: 21
          +2
          Quote: svp67
          With his front wheels then? D

          PGO

          but then what about the MiG 1.44?

          MiG 1.44 MFI (from a multifunctional front-line fighter; the series was to receive the name MiG-35; according to NATO codification: Flatpack [2]) - Russian experimental prototype fighter of the fifth generation.

          The plane was created as a counterweight to the American fighter F-22 and for a number of characteristics excelled his American rival.


          и
          The root of the wing is equipped with a movable part of the influx (CCF), replacing front horizontal tail (GIP).

          It turns out, and our lohanulis?
          belay
          Quote: svp67
          What then is the “fifth generation”?

      2. seos
        seos 16 January 2018 18: 20
        +6
        And who comes up with the requirements for a 5th generation fighter? Each country has its own requirements .... Each has its own concept ... and we can judge who really can’t ...
        About the fact that
        There are probably 3+ or 4 not more
        this is bullshit ... Now the technological level of China is not inferior to ours ... yes, they are behind the engines ... but it's not about the engines ..
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 16 January 2018 18: 30
          +4
          Yields in everything.
          1. seos
            seos 16 January 2018 18: 38
            16
            China owns 100% of its production; they will not need any import substitution program ... Avionics, AFAR radars, Missiles, stealth technologies, they all have ...
            I am sure that the production cost of this J-20 is very low, especially for the Chinese economy .. We are going to produce MIG-35, produce Su-30, Su-35, another Tu-160, etc. .. and this is not stealth aircraft ...
            And what is better MIG-35 without stealth technology or J-20?
            They, unlike us, are fully invested in science .... they have a future ...
            1. Muvka
              Muvka 16 January 2018 18: 50
              +3
              You need to look at the plane completely, and not whether it is stealth or not. And China is purchasing aviation engines from us. Tank - from Germany. Excellent 100% production in the country. It is not yet known how the rest of the situation is actually the case.
              1. Andrei
                Andrei 17 January 2018 07: 13
                0
                Are you sure that tank engines are purchased in Germany?
                It seems that China has organized their licensed production.
            2. Lock36
              Lock36 16 January 2018 20: 38
              +2
              Quote: seos
              And what is better MIG-35 without stealth technology or J-20?

              MiG-35.
              The yellow yellow monkey asshole regiment arrived laughing
              1. seos
                seos 16 January 2018 21: 23
                11
                China is the first economy of the planet and yes, unlike us, it is Great!
                They combined socialism and capitalism and created a working system. What are their successes over the past 25 years? and what are ours?
                So what does a liberal ass taste like, spewing out the rays of patriotic happiness and telling a bright future?
                1. Lock36
                  Lock36 16 January 2018 22: 13
                  +2
                  Quote: seos
                  China is the first economy of the planet and yes, unlike us, it is Great!

                  Lick deeper, deeper!
                  Quote: seos
                  They combined socialism and capitalism and created a working system.

                  Complete nonsense, there is no socialism, if they have socialism, then we have long been communism. The "communist" party that rules the cap is a schizophrenia.
                  1. ZVO
                    ZVO 17 January 2018 14: 35
                    0
                    Quote: Lock36

                    Complete nonsense, there is no socialism, if they have socialism, then we have long been communism. The "communist" party that rules the cap is a schizophrenia.

                    Well do not care. what system?
                    If the average salary in China already exceeds $ 700?
                    If 70% of high-tech production is located there, and accordingly the Chinese working themselves are high-tech?
                    When do millions of Chinese students study all over the world?
                    When are Chinese universities themselves in the lead in education?
            3. zyzx
              zyzx 17 January 2018 06: 11
              +1
              When one famous Mongol bent all of China, they also had everything ... and advanced technologies, and cities with walls, and the people of darkness. The Chinese had gunpowder, but they never created a gun for hundreds of years. Maaaalenkaya Japan, multi-million dollar China, for some reason, also in the year 37, as they wanted the spit. All these are undoubtedly wonderful coincidences.
          2. Lock36
            Lock36 16 January 2018 20: 39
            +1
            good well at least someone
      3. RUSS
        RUSS 16 January 2018 19: 37
        +1
        Quote: Azazelo
        Well, about the same fake as the lards of the population of China, which actually do not exist.

        And the earth is flat laughing
      4. tchoni
        tchoni 16 January 2018 20: 52
        0
        Quote: Azazelo
        Of course .... this J20 or whatever it is .... only a purely externally 5th generation fighter. There are probably 3+ or 4 no more. Well, about the same fake as the lards of the population of China, which actually do not exist.

        Of course, the Chinese are very wise people. 4000 years of statehood do not pass by. j20 is partly an ersatz of the fifth generation, designed to solve a number of problems at once:
        1) reduce the gap in the development of fighter aircraft with Western "partners"
        2) to give troops experience in operating 5th generation aircraft, during various exercises to practice the use of such machines, to identify their strengths and weaknesses.
        3) serve as a stand for testing various technical solutions
        4) in the near future to become a massive universal aircraft of the Chinese air force (a kind of Chinese analog fy35)
        But the real fifth generation may stat j31, and maybe even some kind of machine. The Chinese, unlike us, do not publicize their Napoleonic plans.
        1. zyzx
          zyzx 17 January 2018 06: 13
          0
          PR, when they have something to PR, only a little, they have what they have.
      5. Skifotavr
        Skifotavr 16 January 2018 21: 00
        0
        Quote: Azazelo
        Well, about the same fake as the lards of the population of China, which actually do not exist.

        Oh, this is something new! But what do they really have with the population? smile
        1. ZVO
          ZVO 17 January 2018 14: 36
          0
          Quote: Skifotavr
          Quote: Azazelo
          Well, about the same fake as the lards of the population of China, which actually do not exist.

          Oh, this is something new! But what do they really have with the population? smile


          There is an opinion that the real population of China and India in the range of 500-700 million people is determined by the definition of domestic production and analysis of import-export of food ...
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 16 January 2018 19: 13
      +1
      If these planes are secret, then there really is nothing to brag about. winked
      1. Korax71
        Korax71 17 January 2018 02: 25
        +1
        That is, by analogy, when in Russia they talk about secret developments, then there is also nothing to brag about ??????
    4. Odysseus
      Odysseus 16 January 2018 19: 24
      +2
      Quote: Sergeant Major
      and our engines?

      Both our and the Chinese stood on prototypes. On serial, Chinese are declared. True, there is no complete certainty in this. Engines are needed and J-11 and J-10, there for Chinese volumes they need a lot.
      For example, the J-11B fly with both our and Chinese engines.
    5. Scoun
      Scoun 16 January 2018 22: 26
      +1
      Quote: Foreman
      and our engines?

      Is your lamp free of binding?
      Quote: Vladimir16
      You can produce and sell billions of iPhones, but not produce a single engine for a fifth-generation aircraft. And vice versa.

      Do you know that a young Chinese scientist received the State Prize precisely for the engines?
    6. opus
      opus 17 January 2018 00: 06
      +4
      Quote: Sergeant Major
      and our engines?

      and move your brains?
      Xian WS-15


      The WS-15 (Chinese: X 扇 -15; pinyin: Wōshàn-15), codename Emei, is a Chinese afterburning turbine engine developed by used to power China's Chengdu J-20 fighter, which would be able to achieve supercruise.


      Workshop where they are produced

      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 17 January 2018 01: 51
        +1
        Chinese machine tools are as short-lived as their jet engines.
        1. corporal
          corporal 17 January 2018 05: 27
          0
          Quote: Vadim237
          Chinese machine tools are as short-lived as their jet engines.

          But there are many of them - change as necessary.
        2. ZVO
          ZVO 17 January 2018 14: 40
          +1
          Quote: Vadim237
          Chinese machine tools are as short-lived as their jet engines.


          The Chinese are doing exactly that. as specified in the TOR.
          For all machine tool companies in the world have their production in the same China. and many already belong to the Chinese. The same cookie and many others.
          So they have the technology.
          And they do exactly what the consumer needs.
          Rather, it will be so.
          What the seller orders.
          For example, Russian.
          He wants a cheap machine - he will get a cheap machine and then sell it expensively.
          The seller of machine tools wants to put a better product into his warehouse - he will get a better one. but significantly more expensive. But from the same Chinese.
          They will do everything as you say ...

          So your opinion is not thanks to the Chinese. and thanks to our outbid importers importing complete crap ... and this shaping image in general.
  2. fa2998
    fa2998 16 January 2018 17: 20
    23
    I want to ask our critics to stop pinging the Chinese. A good or bad time will tell, maybe it will show up somewhere in regional conflicts. The plane is ALREADY in the series, and we are all experiencing it if I remember it for 8 years. And recently, the Chinese were taught aircraft construction. He will soon bypass us in exporting aircraft. hi
    1. Chertt
      Chertt 16 January 2018 17: 29
      +8
      There are two types of people incomprehensible to me. The former (liberoids), the United States considers the “City on the Hill”, where everything is the best, and where do we need to compete with them. And the second, as soon as ANY untested message about the PRC appears, they discard the last crumbs of doubt, and fall into sexual ecstasy
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 16 January 2018 18: 52
        14
        Quote: Chertt
        There are two types of people incomprehensible to me.

        There are even more amazing types of people. Those who have defended their own country, handed it over to plunder by outright bandits who destroyed entire branches of production, and now they are buying everything from cowards to machine tools in China, but at the same time they are talking about “their own greatness”.
        The whole world, including the Chinese and their own new Russian oligarchy, is looking at people like frank downs whom they can fearlessly rob.
        1. Chertt
          Chertt 16 January 2018 19: 03
          +4
          Quote: Odyssey
          Those who have ruined their own country, surrendered it to plunder

          As I understand it, you have protected your country from plunder.
          Quote: Odyssey
          The whole world, including the Chinese and their own new Russian oligarchy, is looking at people like frank downs whom they can fearlessly rob.

          When I read this "salivation", I feel sad. After all, you live very badly, right?
          1. faiver
            faiver 16 January 2018 19: 29
            +9
            I personally feel sad when I see our pensioners, clinics and so on, and then in comparison I hear the salary of the Minister of Finances, I hear how the Vice Premier of dogs on business jets in Europe rolls and so on ...
            1. Chertt
              Chertt 16 January 2018 19: 33
              +2
              Quote: faiver
              I personally feel sad when I see our senior citizens, clinics and so on

              What do you offer, I'm sure you have a solution
              1. seos
                seos 16 January 2018 21: 40
                +6
                You glorify liberal Russia and at the same time blaspheme the liberals ... a paradox ...
                The funny thing is that I wanted to tell the same about the 3rd type of people, but they got me ahead ...
                Cheers patriot rejoicing liberal success which in reality is not ... what happens when the Soviet scientific potential disappears At the moment, there is no science in Russia, the generation of hip-hop cannot send rockets into space, the maximum that you can expect from them is the development of a new Viagra or a realistic vibrator ... Education in the country is destroyed, schools create a generation of weak-willed consumers (ideal citizens, which for everything on the drum)
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 16 January 2018 19: 43
        +1
        Quote: Chertt
        There are two types of people incomprehensible to me. First (liberoids)

        Before you say you clarify the concept of the suffix "oid", it means "similar", and then what is the liberoid is similar to whom?
        1. Chertt
          Chertt 16 January 2018 19: 51
          +3
          column eidos looks. An element that is part of compound words with visibility, similarity to that, but not identity. Distinguish between borrowing and foreign words.

          Borrowings (words, less often syntactic and phraseological phrases) are adapted in the Russian language, undergo the necessary semantic and phonetic change. Adaptation to the realities of the Russian language is the main feature that distinguishes borrowings from foreign words ... What interests you in philology ??
      3. complete zero
        complete zero 16 January 2018 20: 37
        +1
        I don’t see anything negative in the definition of "quilted jacket", "scoop" .... the trouble is that we are NOT quilted jackets ... we were them when the country (despite the difficulties) invested in science and production .. . ALL our achievements are until now the achievement of the "country of quilted jackets" .. what we are now ... I'm afraid that the Lord does not know ....
      4. Lock36
        Lock36 16 January 2018 22: 15
        +1
        good The cult of the Great Yellow Monkey - it is Great in all its manifestations.
    2. KVU-NSVD
      KVU-NSVD 16 January 2018 17: 36
      +8
      They have a 5 pok plane. with the engine from 4 and about the tests of the 5th something is not to be heard. Our 5th motor is already in flight tests. And how many units do they have in this "series"? . It is too early to talk about a qualitative leap in the Chinese military aircraft industry. Another big question is which is better - put in a series unfinished apparatus or finish up to the required characteristics and only then on the conveyor. Although, with their pace of development, sooner or later we will be caught up and overtaken
    3. svp67
      svp67 16 January 2018 18: 09
      +4
      Quote: fa2998
      The plane is already in the series, and we are all experiencing

      It is in the same series as our Su-57, that is, until the deficiencies identified during military tests and the appearance of its engine are eliminated, there will not be a large series.
      1. Solomon Kane
        Solomon Kane 16 January 2018 18: 39
        +4
        All that China has ever created is the Great Wall, the only work of technical thought that has survived to our time. Yes, and she did not save the Chinese from hordes
        Temuchina.
        Quickly, a lot and for a long time, this does not happen.
        As for the 57th, too many mistakes were made, realizing great ideas, so it’s right that they bring the product to mind. 5-7-10 years of improvements, but the aircraft will be for 10 years, and not just what they are doing in the Celestial Empire, copying not only striped technology, but also the manner of their technological adaptation of the product, through accidents, failures and improvements ......
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 16 January 2018 19: 28
          +4
          Have you seen the compass? Also from there. Eat pasta? Their technology.
          Rockets? They are the first. wink
          1. Town Hall
            Town Hall 16 January 2018 19: 32
            +2
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Have you seen the compass? Also from there. Eat pasta? Their technology.
            Rockets? They are the first. wink



            As for the compass, it seems not quite from there
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 16 January 2018 19: 44
              0
              Quote: Town Hall
              As for the compass, it seems not quite from there

              From there, from there, like gunpowder and paper ....
              1. seos
                seos 16 January 2018 21: 55
                +1
                It is believed that gunpowder could be invented in the Middle East because there are deposits of saltpeter, which facilitates the process of creation ... History is not an exact science ... whoever pays the most is right ... maybe in 100 years they will seriously discuss Great Ukrov as the progenitors of European civilization wassat
          2. Solomon Kane
            Solomon Kane 16 January 2018 19: 38
            +4
            I won’t be surprised at the sneakiness of the Chinese, and gunpowder, paper, compass and typography, they only patented faster than anyone ..... laughing
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. Seaflame
            Seaflame 17 January 2018 00: 55
            +2
            Even the Chinese came up with dumplings (actually, a good economy, well-developed industrial production is a very important factor in the advancement of the modern Armed Forces, to prove it is like breaking through an open door. And China has very good prospects for technological breakthroughs. For the soul of the Motherland it hurts, but in our history there were periods worse than that, but we got out, let’s get through this time, God forbid!
        2. Korax71
          Korax71 17 January 2018 02: 31
          0
          And a lot of accidents at the dinosaur or penguin with human casualties?
      2. prosto_rgb
        prosto_rgb 16 January 2018 22: 47
        +1
        Quote: svp67
        there will be no big series.

        they have already been ordered 40 pcs and the plant is fulfilling the contract
        how much is a lot compared with the statements of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the purchase of 12 pieces of Su-57, everyone can judge for himself
  3. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 16 January 2018 17: 25
    +2
    The exercises using J-20 were held in secrecy at one of the military bases of the Chinese Air Force. For nine days, "several J-20 conducted realistic maneuvers with the J-16 and J-10C fighters." The details of the exercises in the PLA do not reveal.
    Realistic maneuvers - this is an air battle, or what? When are the detection distances, angles and timing of the attack on the CC? At the same time, the Far Eastern Military District’s radars detect the “invisibility” detection distance ... And didn’t you look at the infrared trace (signature)? Because our AL 41F is very bright! And the hunfuz simply have no other ... But they did take it into service. Comrade Xi's head! bully
    But.
    1. Cananecat
      Cananecat 16 January 2018 17: 46
      +1
      The whole difference is that we first experience and then the series, and they apparently have the final tests already on the serial ... everyone understands that he is still raw, but they already boasted. )))
      1. Chertt
        Chertt 16 January 2018 17: 58
        +2
        Quote: Canecat
        and they apparently have the final tests already on the serial

        ten flight prototypes of the su-57 were produced in Russia, than no series
    2. yehat
      yehat 16 January 2018 17: 49
      +1
      In any case, the Chinese have a poor understanding of how to use it and any maneuvers improve this understanding.
    3. opus
      opus 17 January 2018 00: 39
      +2
      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
      There is simply no other for the Hunfuz ... But they did accept it.

      On serial stands Xian WS-15

      +

  4. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 16 January 2018 17: 27
    +5
    Beautiful dog. Neat and asterisks, eh ....
  5. Piramidon
    Piramidon 16 January 2018 17: 31
    +3
    I don’t know how it is about TTX, but the Chinese shoot planes and ships like hot cakes. They have people there - tuevahucha. Each Chinese will stick a rivet - the aircraft carrier is ready. laughing
    1. yehat
      yehat 16 January 2018 17: 50
      0
      do not overestimate the population. there are fewer who "stick a rivet".
  6. Малый
    Малый 16 January 2018 17: 36
    10
    The main problem is that we have an army of bureaucrats without a homeland and a flag breaking through to budget money because everything is for sale ..... due to lack of control .... and they build palaces and yachts for themselves what kind of homeland they will dump for any cordon
  7. tchoni
    tchoni 16 January 2018 17: 36
    +9
    Su57 eeeem! Where are you !? Auuuuuuuuuuuuu !?
    But seriously, the pace of development of China is a little scary. This is not the United States, which, to a certain extent, is limited by human resources, even if not like us, but still .. And those who are located, God knows where. This is a superpower, and at our side ....
    1. yehat
      yehat 16 January 2018 17: 51
      +3
      China is developing SLOW than the USSR. That is why they were afraid of us.
      1. Sasha Crimean
        Sasha Crimean 16 January 2018 18: 39
        +6
        China is developing SLOW than the USSR. That's why we were afraid

        The only difference is that the development of the USSR ended in an attempt to bring to mind the first Soviet cassette VCR “Electronics 311” with the top loading of the cassette, and the Chinese were already slapping laser DVD players in full, even on large disks.
        1. sabakina
          sabakina 16 January 2018 20: 49
          +2
          Quote: Sasha Crimean
          The only difference is that the development of the USSR ended in an attempt to bring to mind the first Soviet cassette VCR “Electronics 311” with the top loading of the cassette, and the Chinese were already slapping laser DVD players in full, even on large disks.

          The first Soviet was the "Electronics" VM-12. If not mistaken, a copy of Panasonic.
      2. fa2998
        fa2998 16 January 2018 18: 41
        +7
        What do you remember 70 years of the last century? Then there were 80-90-00 years, China has grown at times, but we have fallen, and now we can’t do any indicators of the 80s! hi
        1. Piramidon
          Piramidon 16 January 2018 22: 59
          +1
          The Chinese did not have Gorbachev and Yeltsin.
    2. seos
      seos 16 January 2018 18: 26
      0
      China has never been our enemy ... unlike the Anglo-Saxons ... At the moment, the development of China is beneficial to us, without their existence we will be torn as a Tuzik heating pad ... and this is not a matter of direct military aggression ... local conflicts , sanctions, but with 5 columns they will bring us down ...
      1. Tsoy
        Tsoy 16 January 2018 19: 31
        +8
        Quote: seos
        China has never been our enemy


        Seriously? And we had border conflicts with the Martians?
        1. seos
          seos 16 January 2018 21: 57
          0
          Border conflicts arose when China came under the influence of the United States ... they always wanted to pit us ...
  8. Azazelo
    Azazelo 16 January 2018 18: 01
    0
    This crap flying on old engines, without a centralized control system ... well, well.
  9. APASUS
    APASUS 16 January 2018 18: 04
    +4
    I don’t have to hide the breakthrough of Chinese science and industry, but I wouldn’t bet on Chengdu J-20 airplanes. It’s not about the possibilities, but about China’s attempt to demonstrate to everyone the transition of the economy from sewing cheap consumer goods to manufacturing high-tech products. This is like Gagarin’s flight, for China this project is prestige. I don’t think that they will put it into series, and making samples does not mean the result.
    In Japan, they also reported on such developments and the plane even took off, but they immediately warned that the series should be expected no earlier than 2025
    1. seos
      seos 16 January 2018 18: 32
      +2
      The Chinese economy is built on mass production .... to take new cities without residents is a construction boom ... Take the growth rate of the fleet ... They are 1 planet's economy and thus they stimulate their economic growth ...
      For them, several hundred J-20s is not a problem to build, like a temporary transitional fighter, until something better appears ... moreover, they build the economy like that ...
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 16 January 2018 18: 54
        +4
        Quote: seos
        For them, several hundred J-20s is not a problem to build, like a temporary transitional fighter, until something better appears ... moreover, they build the economy like that ...

        We don’t know all the performance characteristics, but why then our AL-20FN engine is on the J-31. The situation with the AFAR for the radar is still rather incomprehensible. They have it, but what its performance and characteristics are, is unknown. Again, it is not entirely clear what this device will be armed with, whether there are long-range missiles for it, although their neighbor is not all right.
        1. seos
          seos 16 January 2018 22: 00
          0
          With AFAR they have everything in order ... because the technology has been tested on air defense and on ships.
          There are problems with engines because of heat-resistant blades, but even existing engines are enough for them to dominate in the air ...
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 16 January 2018 22: 54
            0
            Quote: seos
            There are problems with engines due to heat-resistant blades, but even existing engines are enough for them to dominate in the air

            Well, here is a moot point. It depends on whom. Above us, Taiwan, or India, of course, yes (although it is not so simple with India, the airfield network in Tibet, even in China, is not very dense, that is, it is easier for India to create a large air group). But over the combined forces of the USA and Japan in the area of ​​disputes no islands.
            And since only the USA and satellites are the adversary for China, they still have something to work on.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 16 January 2018 23: 57
        +1
        "They are 1 planetary economy and thus they stimulate their economic growth ..." ////

        Congratulations! Finally, I saw something true in your posts. good
    2. Odysseus
      Odysseus 16 January 2018 19: 59
      +1
      Quote: APASUS
      I don’t think they’ll let him in the series

      J-20 is already in mass production smile
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 16 January 2018 20: 13
        +1
        Quote: Odyssey
        J-20 is already in mass production

        Can you confirm?
        In December 2016, the first aircraft entered the 176th brigade, belonging to the PLA Air Force Training and Testing Center, and in March 2017 the aircraft was officially adopted

        The mere fact of adopting it does not mean anything, everything else indicates the continuation of the tests of the experimental batch, while again it should be borne in mind that the planes change their shape every 2 years. The Chinese are still experimenting with the glider
        1. Odysseus
          Odysseus 16 January 2018 22: 09
          +1
          Quote: APASUS
          Can you confirm?

          It is accepted for service. It is accepted for service after the start of mass production. But not before it. Airplanes fly with serial numbers, and not with prototype numbers.
          Quote: APASUS
          everything else suggests continued testing of the experimental batch

          Not an experimental batch, but prototypes. There were 11. And they, of course, continue to fly.
          Production aircraft in test centers. They are not yet in the combat regiments (or I do not have such information).
          Quote: APASUS
          that planes change their shape every 2 years. The Chinese are still experimenting with a glider

          On prototypes, of course. Just like everyone else. On prototypes T-50 also "experimented" with the glider.
          As for the rest of your questions, there are new V-V missiles, there are AFARs (and already on 3 types of aircraft, for comparison we don’t have any). But there is an engine with the necessary characteristics for the J-20. no The first series go without a native WS-15.
          1. Freeman
            Freeman 16 January 2018 23: 09
            +1
            Odyssey Today, 22:09
            Adopt after the start of mass production. But not before it.

            A small clarification (clarification).
            ACCEPTANCE OF THE SAMPLE OF IWT - an official decision (order, decree, etc.) to include a specific, new or modernized model of weapons or military equipment in the standard means of the state armed forces.

            As a rule, the adoption of an armament and military hardware model should be preceded by its military (naval) tests. Objects of evaluation in military tests are first head production samples IWT. With the adoption of samples for armament, their mass production is organized and their equipping of formations and units of the aircraft.

            / MILITARY-POLITICAL DICTIONARY UNDER THE GENERAL EDITION OF DMITRY ROGOZIN
            http://www.voina-i-mir.ru/article/561 /

            What confirms your words
            Production aircraft in test centers. They are not yet in the combat regiments (or I do not have such information).

            hi
  10. Fedorov
    Fedorov 16 January 2018 18: 11
    +3
    The Chinese are certainly well done. But even Kalash really can’t do it. That metal is not the one, the hands are probably not from the place, Women-women of Russia are collecting it in their homeland. .
    And finally I am silent about dviglo, they will buy and buy. The cunning Chinese ingenuity did not pass here. You need to go through the engine building school, at least three decades.
    Although there is a station in orbit, its own system like Glonass is the same. Well done.
    1. PalBor
      PalBor 16 January 2018 18: 41
      +6
      Quote: Fedorov
      The Chinese are certainly well done. But even Kalash really can’t do it. That metal is not the one, the hands are probably not from the place, Women-women of Russia are collecting it in their homeland. .
      And finally I am silent about dviglo, they will buy and buy. The cunning Chinese ingenuity did not pass here. You need to go through the engine building school, at least three decades.
      Although there is a station in orbit, its own system like Glonass is the same. Well done.

      As for the stations - everything is also relative. "Tiangong-1" will fall uncontrollably in March, they abandoned the third one, the second one is spinning, but this is not a full-fledged station, but one module.
      The real station is threatened by 22-23gg. assemble. Let's see.
  11. bald
    bald 16 January 2018 18: 11
    +2
    Surely our people tried to feel it, from our territory. Many use Stealth technology, but for some reason it does not work for everyone, one name. (American invisible bomber F-117, shot down by the Soviet complex S - 125)
    1. Korax71
      Korax71 16 January 2018 18: 28
      +2
      A single case showing nothing. Even this has been taken apart and sucked a million times.
      1. bald
        bald 16 January 2018 18: 46
        +2
        This is not the case, hanging noodles on the ears of taxpayers, they are visible on the radar - recently there was a scandal about this.
  12. san4es
    san4es 16 January 2018 18: 18
    +2
    The manufacturer positions the aircraft as a fifth generation fighter, equipped with advanced electronics and built using stealth technologies

  13. Sasha Crimean
    Sasha Crimean 16 January 2018 18: 28
    0
    Quote: Foreman
    and our engines?

    But why?
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 16 January 2018 18: 32
      +1
      And because without engines, an airplane cannot fly. Law of physics.
      1. Sasha Crimean
        Sasha Crimean 16 January 2018 19: 41
        +1
        And because without engines, an airplane cannot fly. Law of physics.

        Maybe I'm wrong, but judging by the frames of the video and the joint exercises carried out, and as you say contrary to the laws of physics, and even apparently without Russian engines, it still flies. Flies and does not fall, no worse than the T-50.
        And here is how it is charged with electronics compared to the T-50.
        1. NN52
          NN52 16 January 2018 20: 40
          11
          Sasha Crimean

          The resource of Chinese engines do not know by chance?
          Fly, but not for long ???
          300
          If not in the subject, then it is probably better to remain silent ...
          Off-topic expert ///
  14. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General 16 January 2018 18: 58
    +3
    Something scary looks. Let's see what's next, anyway there are no serial models.
  15. Overlock
    Overlock 16 January 2018 19: 23
    +3
    Quote: General of the Sand Quarries
    DPRK without conventional smartphones has created nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles.

    650 billion S invested in education give their result. What are we surprised at?
  16. Odysseus
    Odysseus 16 January 2018 19: 40
    0
    It is curious that, according to janes, they are working together with the main front-line (J-10C last modification with AFAR) and the striker (J-16 modernized Su-30, used primarily as a bomber).
    And not with the main heavy J-11D or with the Su-35. Perhaps it’s just that the hands have not yet reached.
    The main intrigue is whose combat regiments are the first to receive the J-20 Air Force or the Navy? Actually, depending on this, it will be possible to judge the main purpose of the aircraft.
  17. RUSS
    RUSS 16 January 2018 19: 53
    +1
    Quote: Choi
    Quote: seos
    China has never been our enemy


    Seriously? And we had border conflicts with the Martians?

    You can add border skirmishes and whole battles over the centuries, especially with our Cossacks
  18. DPN
    DPN 16 January 2018 21: 15
    +2
    Everything is possible, Russia has already been taught that money rules everything - that is, $ them in China to hell and more, that means everything that needs to be bought or intelligence will be obtained. We are at the Olympics under the white flag and that’s it.
  19. Maz
    Maz 16 January 2018 21: 31
    +2
    Quote: Muvka
    You need to look at the plane completely, and not whether it is stealth or not. And China is purchasing aviation engines from us. Tank - from Germany. Excellent 100% production in the country. It is not yet known how the rest of the situation is actually the case.

    Type 99, at the tank biathlon and the deaf, and the goose lost and guidance devices failed and the rollers fell off. This despite the fact that his year was strengthened and facilitated after the first failure. I can imagine how much they will bring the plane to mind and reliability. Have avidarts twice a year to carry out.
  20. Megamarcel
    Megamarcel 16 January 2018 21: 50
    -1
    They are doing everything right. Transferred to the troops for trial operation to identify the opinions of combatant pilots and clarify all the problem areas. Gradually bring to candicia. And we cannot even do this. All promises are fed.
  21. Steklodel
    Steklodel 16 January 2018 22: 13
    0
    Don’t say that, but his glass lamp is technological. To say the least
  22. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 16 January 2018 23: 06
    0
    Quote: Steklodel
    Don’t say that, but his glass lamp is technological. To say the least

    The PRC takes in aviation not quantity but quality. That's when the quality will be brought to the level of leading air powers, then it will be possible to be “afraid”, but for now this is just an attempt at a technological breakthrough. The road will be overcome by a walker! And our taxis are only holding back the development of industry for the sake of banking speculators! hi
  23. Alexy
    Alexy 16 January 2018 23: 07
    0
    Again, our technology decided to copy
  24. brr1
    brr1 16 January 2018 23: 08
    0
    Quote: Foreman
    and our engines?

    No, Russian.
  25. m.cempbell
    m.cempbell 16 January 2018 23: 35
    +2
    Judging objectively, without "cheers" and "all is lost" - the engines on the experimental batch were ours, on the production plane they promise their own. Almost nothing is known about avionics. About "stealth" - the specific value of the EPR is not given to us (although judging by the F-22 and F-35 it is not necessary smile ), but judging by the already known machines - F-117, B-2, F-22, F-35, and the SU-57 can already be counted with their licked forms, a minimum of protruding elements - the Chinese’s ESR will obviously be an order of magnitude greater . Super-maneuverability - he does not have OBE, and no one has built a super-maneuverable aircraft according to the “duck” scheme. Further IMHO.
    This project is needed for China to break in technology, gain experience that will be applied in a new, already truly perfect aircraft. The USSR also copied a lot at one time, then modified it, and entered a new technological level. Sooner or later, China will catch up - it’s not just buying samples and copying them, but also buying our brains and the best others in the world (Ukraine hello).
    And all this nagging about the 5th generation of fighters, in my opinion, just a fake and drank dough (including ours). We are on the 5th, 6th ... 56th generation should be absolutely no difference. It is necessary to develop radars, engines, gliders, weapons without regard to any generation. What good will, for example, F-22 from invisibility (and even theoretical), if the same SU-35 (MiG-35, 29, etc.) can detect it before he sees ours? Or if our rocket will be more long-range, maneuverable, fast, noise-resistant? Or our engine will be more powerful and reliable - it will allow us to catch up and intercept, or come off and counterattack. The best glider in all generations will be the best because the laws of aerodynamics are unshakable in all other areas too. Here it is necessary to solve more fundamental problems, but it is obvious that there is nobody to put them in our MO, and the new Yakovlev or Mikoyan have not yet been born ...
    1. opus
      opus 17 January 2018 01: 11
      +4
      Quote: m.cempbell
      About avionics is not known almost nothing.

      On PLAAF Tupolev Tu-204

      J-20 nose cone was installed. It is believed that it houses a radar with an active 1475 type electronic scanning matrix (KLJ-5) (AESA) with 1856 MRP (this doesn’t even smell like that)

      +

      +

      Electro-optical / infrared aiming system and advanced multi-channel communication module on the top of the aircraft allows you to contact DataLink with other friendly platforms, as well as with early warning UAV,
      Six electro-optical sensors, called a distributed aperture system (literally: “photoelectrically distributed aperture system”), similar to EODAS, can provide coverage on 360 degrees for a pilot integrated with an IR sensor system. The combination of an integrated targeting module with a spherically located passive-optical tracking system is similar concepts Lockheed Martin F-35.
      The Chinese company A-Star Science and Technology has developed an EOTS-86 electro-optical orientation system and an electro-optical distributed aperture system for J-20 and potentially other PLAAFs for detecting and intercepting low-profile aircraft.

      The aircraft is equipped with a glass cabin with two main color liquid crystal displays (LCD) with a touch screen, arranged side by side, three smaller auxiliary displays and a wide-angle holographic display (HUD). The helmet display system is also presented at the Zhuhai airshow. The helmet can provide targeted assistance and help the pilot to more effectively use battle management information from other parts of the onboard system.
      Quote: m.cempbell
      EPR Chinese obviously will be much more.

      well this is nonsense


      - Ultrasonic air intake (DSI)
      - materials
      -Using an algorithm for modeling physical optics, the co-founders of the research center of Air Power Australia, Dr. Michael Pelosi and Dr. Carlos Kopp, identified that J-20, like F-22, also achieved some development goals to improve stealth.


      Quote: m.cempbell
      high maneuverability - he has no OVT,

      [quoteJ-20B - an improved version of J-20, installed with new Chinese powerful TRD WS-15 Emei. China has already developed a universal vector (thrust vectoring controlled) TRD WS-15 With a 10 drawbar, it is now undergoing extensive testing and will be ready for installation in the J-20B for the 2019 year.
      Through the use of WS-15, the J-20B cruising formless speed will be Mach 1.8, and the maximum speed exceeds Mach 2.2, equal to the speed of US F-22] [/ quote]


      Quote: m.cempbell
      but according to the "duck" scheme no one has ever built a super-maneuverable aircraft

      belay
      SAAB JAS-39 Gripen tell it


      or Dassault Rafale

      here it is Raptor intercepted and conditionally shot down

      Quote: m.cempbell
      Next IMHO.

      Well, yes .. "as if"
  26. renics
    renics 17 January 2018 02: 13
    0
    Looks like a log with wings.
  27. Northern warrior
    Northern warrior 17 January 2018 02: 45
    +1
    China's successes never cease to amaze. Forty years ago, sparrows were shot in the fields, and today they have overtaken the United States in terms of economy and number of patents. Russia should take an example from its eastern neighbor, and not try to get into Europe at any cost. The Chinese were very lucky with the leadership - they did not have Gorbachev, EBN, Chubais and Gaidar, and the local liberalism was successfully wound on a gusli in 89th.
  28. demos1111
    demos1111 17 January 2018 09: 48
    0
    It’s hard to say exactly how the plane turned out and what generation it is. There are several facts that the USSR and the USA had a long standoff in the air, as a result they gained experience that China does not have and is unlikely to appear soon. Each country also has its own school of a building aircraft. And we see that each of these countries is developing its own aircraft in debt, you can understand Russia, after having spent 90, has been busy with T50 for a long time (the liberals will say the polymers have disappeared), but mattresses having experience with F22 are no less busy with F35. This all leads to one thought, but are the requirements for 5th generation aircraft in Russia, America and China equivalent?
    And everyone is talking about the smart skin of the aircraft, its unrivaled radar. I may have looked a little, but I have never heard of China's success in electronic warfare systems. And can a 5th generation aircraft be considered successful, inferior to other aircraft in terms of EW parameters. To argue in this thread is not a thankful task.
    But I don’t know about the topic of Russian education (whether it was fucked up or not), but I often see schoolchildren who won this or that Olympiad in the field of education or programming. I also see how often schools are opened in Russia.
    Soon you bury your country. It's offensive.
  29. dvvv
    dvvv 17 January 2018 10: 02
    +1
    The essence of the question is brief: did China overtake Russia in aviation or not? I think I overtook but not in all respects. Here no one really knows what China and even Russia have, but the Su-35 is being supplied, and therefore there is a product that the Chinese still don’t have. There are supplies of S-400 that are interesting to a neighbor and a likely enemy. Of course, there is an assumption that all this is necessary for the Chinese in order to explore the possibilities and develop tactics to counter these weapons systems, as well as the fact that some technical solutions will be copied so as not to lose time and money on their developments. The S-400 is the development of the S-300, and the Su-35 modified by the Su-27 and more, there is no point in developing it; new solutions are needed. Most likely the Chinese will not buy anything else from Russia.
  30. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 17 January 2018 11: 14
    0
    Chet, I doubt their 5th generation ...... some kind of clone with a Raptor nose (F-22) and a PAKFA back (Su-57) ..... where are the technologies for engines and other things .... big question. And they could declare the adoption of the 6th generation aircraft.
  31. lukewarm
    lukewarm 17 January 2018 11: 32
    0
    And when are we?
    1. dvvv
      dvvv 17 January 2018 15: 00
      0
      And you will have a new old prezik, which is a cool guy, and friends at the cooperative will never leave you and will have you ... and you will plow soon, for a bowl of rice, as the Chinese come