Military Review

Case №8-56с. How Moscow tried to rename

83
80 years ago - in January 1938 of the year, the All-Russian Central Executive Committee of Workers', Peasants' and Red Army Deputies' Councils opened the case No.8 / 56-s, which was called “Letters on the renaming of mountains. Moscow. " The case immediately received a secret "secret" and was considered in the Secret Branch of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee SRKKD.


We are talking about a collection of letters from citizens of the USSR, not only and more often even not so many residents of Moscow, who appealed to the party calling for the need to change the name of the Soviet capital. It should be noted that this was the second “stream” of letters about the renaming. The first took place in the 20s after the death of V.Iulianov (Lenin). Citizens (a group of Tambovites), in particular, made a proposal in 1927 about the need to rename the capital of the Soviet Union to the “City of Ilyich” (Ilyich) due to the fact that “Moscow is not a Russian name”. The State Archive of the Russian Federation stores the original of this printed text in which there are such words (the original text is presented without changes):
... "Moscow" in the "City of Ilyich", rightly believing that such a name would tell the mind and heart of the proletariat more than the obsolete and meaningless, besides not Russian and having no logical roots, the name "Moscow".


Out of turn stories it is known that Moscow was not renamed the City of Ilyich then. Moreover, historians are still arguing about the reasons that prompted the authorities to abandon the "popular initiatives". One of the common versions is that the city of the leader of the world proletariat was already worn by the northern capital, and to call in honor of one person (albeit a “leader”) two capitals is overkill. But this is just a version. The short verdict “Do not give a move” was officially published without explaining the reasons, which after many decades gives rise to disputes about these reasons.

Case №8-56с. How Moscow tried to rename

Trade in newspapers and magazines in Moscow. Photo by Branson DeCou (USA), 1931 year


The second wave of letters came at the end of 1937 - the beginning of 1938 of the year. The party again had to form an archive of correspondence, which this time literally demanded that officials rename Moscow to a city in honor of Joseph Stalin. By analogy with the city of Ilyich, they did not propose to rename the city of Vissarionovich - but there were options with playing up the very word “Stalin”. So, one of the most frequent proposals in archival documents sounds like "Stalinadar" ("The Gift of Stalin").

Employees of the General Assembly of the Russian Federation, based on archival data, believe that the first such proposal appeared at the end of December 1937, and the author of it is a member of the Bolshevik party P. Zaitsev. This man, whose biography is virtually unknown, sent a letter to the party leadership, stating that the renaming of the capital to Stalinadar would be perceived "with joy by all the working people of the Earth." The “necessity” of renaming it precisely in “The Gift of Stalin” was described by the appearance of the Constitution of the USSR, which is still referred to as Stalin. The author believed that if the Constitution implies the emergence of a new body of state power - the Supreme Council, the new body should take into account the Stalinist contribution to its formation, and therefore pay tribute to the “Father of Nations”, naming the capital in his honor.

Following this letter came several more epistolary messages, in which it was also proposed to give Moscow the name of Stalinadar. And it is in this version of writing. This suggests that the “people's campaign” could well be directed by representatives of the entourage of the head of state in order to gain more support from him in a very difficult historical period.

Among the arguments for renaming Moscow to Stalinadar was not only the one associated with the appearance of the Stalinist Constitution. In particular, the option of argumentation associated with the “socialist renewal of the capital” was proposed. It was noted that in the Stalin era, a metro appeared in Moscow, new streets and avenues were designed and created, work was carried out to create a canal (talking about the Moscow Canal, originally called Moscow-Volga), and new productions were opened.

From the letter of Elena Chulkova from 2 in January 1938 of the year to Nikolay Yezhov (original text is preserved):
I am an ordinary Soviet woman ... and I am deeply convinced that if I express my thought loudly, she will immediately be enthusiastically taken up by all the peoples of our Union.


Comrade Chulkova sent to Yezhov not only the text in prose, but also poems “encouraging” to rename. Here is a snippet:
The thought flies faster than the bird
Happiness Stalin gave us a gift
And the beautiful capital
Not Moscow - Stalinadar!


However, "Stalinadar", as it turns out, was not the only option as proposals from workers. Despite the fact that for more than a decade the city of Stalingrad was listed on the map of the Country of Soviets, there were citizens who offered to make Moscow also Stalingrad.

And the original correspondence came in, in which the new name of the capital of the USSR sounded like “Stalen Grad Moscow”. The State Archive of the Russian Federation also keeps such a letter. Its author is Polina Golubeva from Kislovodsk, who (judging by the text) did not have a high level of literacy, but possessed what is called an “active citizenship”, and therefore, as she herself thought (or herself? ..), she could not stay without proposals to perpetuate the Stalinist name even during his lifetime. The facts that Comrade Golubev did not really know how to spell the name (pseudonym) of Comrade Stalin, and that Stalingrad already exists, did not prevent her from coming out with a sentence of this nature (the author’s text is given without change):
Dear Comrache Stalin, accept my letter
I ask all the Stalinists of saratnikov to create Moscow. Stalengrad Moscow, as Lenengrad and Moscow, then the real Moscow in old Moscow lived all the rot of the damned, we gradually left them.


From the archive is known and about the profession of the author of this letter. Polina Ivanovna (the name of the author of the text) worked as a bathing man in a complex of mineral-water narzan baths.

Neither Ilyich, nor Stalinadar, nor Stalen Hail the capital of the state eventually became.

Conspiracy theorists say that one of the reasons for the removal from office of the Interior Minister Nikolai Yezhov in November 1938 of the year (first with his transfer to the People's Commissar of the water transport), as well as his subsequent arrest and execution, must somehow be attributed to the fact that it was he who gave the course "civil initiative on the glorification of the name of the great Stalin." Among historians there is another version. It lies in the fact that the “people's will” about renaming Moscow in honor of the head of state was directed by Yezhov’s department, and with his active support.



Historians base this theory on the fact that letters from Soviet citizens (in 30-s) began to arrive at the very time when Yezhov headed the NKVD, and after his resignation from this post the flames of initiatives were strangely extinguished. In any case, it is possible to base only on declassified documents - letters with initiatives about changing the name of the capital. Perhaps there were other letters. But in any case, no incentive initiatives from above were received, and Moscow remained Moscow. Moreover, it would be naive to believe that Stalin himself knew nothing about the initiatives, and therefore it is likely that the attempts of flattery and servility were stopped by him personally, as an earlier attempt to rename the USSR from the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics to the Union of Soviet Stalinist Republics.
Author:
Photos used:
Branson Deco, Wikipedia
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 15 January 2018 07: 21
    +5
    Funny ... It was such a thing ...
    1. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 15 January 2018 19: 55
      +7
      Stupid slogans have always had enough in our country. It is enough to recall the not-so-distant slogans “Do not change horses at the crossing,” “And who, if not our sun-faced?”, Who immediately after removal from his post, suffers from millions. From the same song.
      1. Freeman
        Freeman 16 January 2018 00: 43
        +2
        Quote: vladimirZ
        Stupid slogans have always had enough in our country. It is enough to recall the not-so-distant slogans “Do not change horses at the crossing,” “And who, if not our sun-faced?”, Who immediately after removal from his post, suffers from millions. From the same song.

        From the song
        And we are still moving forward
        And if someone accidentally dies,
        So then she’s the story
        The one that
        Not so much half as much
        Do not lie!
        Poems (* three verses / note /) were written in 1965 by Anatoly Fleitman (born in 1930)

        And then "folk art" was connected.
        A part of it can be found here:
        https://gord15.livejournal.com/221161.html
        One option

  2. Horseman without a head
    Horseman without a head 15 January 2018 07: 33
    21
    They were ready to turn everything upside down
    If only to line up before the leader
    It still didn't help wassat
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 15 January 2018 15: 26
      +1
      Yeah, most likely Yezhov served himself and put pressure on Kalinin and other "pinzhakov"
    2. Monarchist
      Monarchist 15 January 2018 16: 45
      +4
      The Horseman, you are right: there were, you are, and will be so ugly without measure.
      Remember how VV said: “make the valley pray to God and he will break his forehead”
      Once I listened to it on the radio for a long time: when the recipe for the sausage was made “doctoral”, * some zealous officials in the documents called it “Stalin”, but someone from the “upper” ones changed their minds — does it mean Stalin was sausage?
      1. moskowit
        moskowit 15 January 2018 18: 58
        +1
        How many discoveries of MIRACLES are prepared for us by Spirit Surveys .....
        Excuse me, Alexander Sergeevich ....
  3. andrew42
    andrew42 15 January 2018 07: 39
    +7
    Don’t feed the Trotskyites with bread - let them trample something Russian. It is at their genetic level - it was, is, and will be. To line up with semen with a spoon, for one Vanka with a bipod, and repaint under changing slogans without end.
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 15 January 2018 11: 24
      +4
      It is enough to read the names of the most famous Trotskyists, and all the surprise disappears.
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 17 January 2018 02: 01
        0
        Are you hinting at Khrushchev?
  4. Olgovich
    Olgovich 15 January 2018 07: 48
    +8
    ,
    a version of the argument was proposed related to the "socialist renewal of the capital"
    The ignoramuses without memory and conscience, who destroyed half of the monuments of Moscow, its historical buildings, filled it with the mediocre puffy streets of Koiky, also wanted to rename in a fit of fawning. There are no words.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 15 January 2018 08: 34
      +6
      But Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, compared the ideas of communism with the Orthodox religion, and V.I. Lenin, practically, with the saints of Mount Athos. wink https://www.gazeta.ru/politics/2018/01/14_a_11612
      042.shtml
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 15 January 2018 09: 06
        11
        Quote: avva2012
        But Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, compared the ideas of communism with the Orthodox religion, and V.I. Lenin, practically, with the saints of Mount Athos. wink https://www.gazeta.ru/politics/2018/01/14_a_11612
        042.shtml

        Yeah, he’s great at you! laughing
        By the way, did you fight with your grandfather's forehead for a long time? yes
        Doesn’t he spin from anger at such comparisons? yes
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 15 January 2018 09: 47
          11
          Include middle name, not middle name. Think of GDP, a person is not your level, he will not “joke”. And if he made such a tilt, before the election, towards the left movement, then this movement is a force. Moreover, with this statement, he is not afraid of losing a significant number of votes of "monarchists" and anti-communists. They are really miserable. Their opinion is not taken into account. What GDP said.
          By the way, did you fight with your grandfather's forehead for a long time?

          Is that a Moldavian saying? What does she mean? Sorry, but I don’t understand the Moldovan mentality. There was one representative of this people in the army, but, you understand, one person cannot be judged on the characteristics of a nation.
          Doesn’t he spin from anger at such comparisons?

          No. what
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 15 January 2018 10: 36
            10
            Quote: avva2012
            Include middle name, not middle name.

            But in Russian, do not know how to speak?
            Quote: avva2012
            Think GDP, not your level man, he will not “mock”. And if he made such a tilt, before the election, towards the left movement, then this movement is a force.

            No, of course it’s your level. lol And “Strength” is 4% of the Russian population for comm in the last election, a loss of 5 out of 50 votes in the Duma? belay
            More humiliationwhat a comparison with Chrysianism and holy relics is impossible for the Communists to come up with: with what they mercilessly fought, there they were ... and stuffed! laughing
            Quote: avva2012
            Is that a Moldavian saying? What does she mean?

            All in Russian, what is not clear to you? request ONCE AGAIN: long ago fell for the "holy relics" grandfathers in the mausoleum? lol How is he such comparisons? laughing
            Quote: avva2012
            There was one representative of this people in the army, but, you understand, one person cannot be judged on the characteristics of a nation.

            Do not bother, I'm Russian. yes
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 15 January 2018 10: 59
              +9
              Do not bother, I'm Russian.

              Russian, so Russian. But people living for a long time in an area dominated by a different culture and language, somehow perceive the mentality of the majority. Although, of course, you are very similar to a person living in a spherical vacuum. So let it be Russian.
              ONCE AGAIN: long ago fell for the "holy relics" grandfathers in the mausoleum?

              It’s not smart, don’t you?
              It’s impossible to come up with a more humiliation than a comparison with Chrysianism and holy relics for the Communists: with what they mercilessly fought, they were thrust into it ... and stuffed!

              Are you a communist? How do you know what is happening with the communist, what feelings does he feel? You roll the field. First a pioneer, then a member of the Komsomol, then maybe even in the party. And now, either a monarchist, or a nationalist, or someone else.
              But in Russian, do not know how to speak?

              Olgovich, there was such a joke about an earring in an ear. “Like the pirates and non-traditional people had the earring. And if the ship with the Adam’s head on the flagpole is not visible behind the back, then the earring is in the ear ...” You are not a princely family of Olgovichs, are you? So this is your motherhood. Do I explain in Russian?
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 15 January 2018 12: 04
                +8
                Quote: avva2012
                Russian, so Russian. But people living for a long time in an area dominated by a different culture and language, somehow perceive the mentality of the majority.

                Our class on 40% He was Jewish, and the Russians, Ukrainians, Moldavians, Georgians, Armenians, the remaining few percent. I am Jewish? yes
                Quote: avva2012
                Although, of course, you are very similar to a person living in a spherical vacuum.

                Again, not in Russian ... request You're not Russian? belay
                Quote: avva2012
                It’s not smart, don’t you?

                No. And what, what - isn’t it? belay You quoted the GDP about relics with such enthusiasm and there you have it: “fall for your grandfather” —You are insulting. request lol
                Quote: avva2012
                Are you a communist? How do you know what is happening with the communist, what feelings does he feel ?.

                Communists are not human? Do they have other feelings ?! belay
                More wonderful and wonderful .... request
                Quote: avva2012
                You roll the field. First a pioneer, then a Komsomol member, then maybe even in the party ..

                Chairman of the squad council, member of the squad council, Komsomol. yes Zampolitesdrones and party meetings, first sowed doubts about the party, and then it generally decomposed before everyone's eyes ..
                Quote: avva2012
                . And now, either a monarchist, or a nationalist, or someone else

                Be sure to stick a label, without this the world is too complicated for you?
                Well, stick it: I am NOT a monarchist, NOT a nationalist, NOT an internationalist, NOT a communist and others NOT.
                I am for everything that is good for the development of Russia and the preservation of the Russian people. Glued? yes
                Quote: avva2012
                You are not a princely family of Olgovichs, are you? Means it you have a motherhood. Do I explain in Russian?

                Not really: what is "it. "? Nick, or what? request Olgovichi is a branch of the Rurikovich, maybe somewhere relatives. recourse yes
                Do you advertise "AVVA - branded men's clothing from TURKEY"? belay
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 15 January 2018 12: 21
                  +9
                  Well, stick it: I am NOT a monarchist, NOT a nationalist, NOT an internationalist, NOT a communist and others NOT.

                  Finally, you said everything about yourself. You are just NOT.
                  Do you advertise "AVVA - branded men's clothing from TURKEY"?

                  You are really a branch. Dead end.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 15 January 2018 15: 46
                    +4
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Finally, you said everything about yourself. You are just NOT.

                    Difficult for perception? lol What would be easier for you: a communist is not a communist, a Leninist is non-Leninist (and therefore an enemy is not an enemy). Get used to it — the world is much more complex, diverse and colorful. . yes
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Do you advertise "AVVA - branded men's clothing from TURKEY"?
                    You are really a branch. Dead end.

                    What are you all the time getting into trouble? request One, two times, it happens, but you have already a system of begging. lol
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 15 January 2018 16: 18
                      +9
                      Olgovich (Rurikovich), do you understand the meaning of the written, Not? Putin, as a politician who has gone to the polls, says only what should attract voters. And if he said that to which I gave the comment above, then he is sure that the majority of Russian society will react to his words positively. And this means that there are an insignificant minority of people like you, in this very society. And you can grimace as much as you like, and deny the obvious, it will remain only grimacing. Here, which is still characteristic, not even his words themselves, but the restrained response of the Russian Orthodox Church, "about quasireligious rituals of the Soviet era." No indignation. Yes, you are in the trap. By the way, do you know what this word means?
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 15 January 2018 17: 37
                        +4
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Olgovich (Rurikovich), do you understand the meaning of the written, Not?

                        Excuse me, Putin? belay WHY do you translate me from Russian into Russian?
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And if he said something to which I gave the comment above, then he is sure that the majority of Russian society will react positively to his words. And this means that there are an insignificant minority of people like you, in this very society. And you can grimace as much as you like, and deny the obvious, it will remain only grimacing.

                        Putin said that you got FARS on religion, i.e. pseudo-religion and pseudo-power. You have been humiliated, but you do not understand. lol fool
                        The minority is 40 seats in the Duma, a disgrace! And this is a fact, not your speculation.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        and the restrained response of the Russian Orthodox Church, "about quasireligious rituals of the Soviet era." No indignation.

                        How to resent? They CONFIRMED Putin and me. yes
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Yes, you are in the trap. By the way, do you know what this word means?

                        I know you are there lol
                      2. Alex_59
                        Alex_59 16 January 2018 14: 17
                        +5
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Olgovich (Rurikovich), do you understand the meaning of the written, Not?

                        He does not understand. Checked.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Putin, as a politician who has gone to the polls, says only what should attract voters.

                        Not only. He also says what is obvious. The fact is that in essence the whole Soviet ideology is Orthodoxy. And the plot is classic. Devilish temptation (jeans, freedom, Coca-Cola) stupefied a people who eventually destroyed a power (temple, paradise) for the sake of their belly. Now we are driven out of paradise - we are tormented, tormented, cannot find an idea, are torn to pieces. Classic! So obvious is the parallel that hair stands on end.
                        And the mockery of the Communist Party in modern conditions (they say they do not vote for them, they humiliate them by comparisons with Orthodoxy) are dances on the bones. The Communist Party kill themselves with a loose slurred position, but this does not mean at all that people do not share the ideas of socialism (at least, let’s not talk about communism). Faith and the administrative church apparatus are the same as socialism and the administrative apparatus of the Communist Party - things are different, and sometimes opposite. Social democracy professes the same basic values ​​as Orthodoxy - justice, equality, freedom. Therefore, this is the future of mankind.
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 16 January 2018 02: 41
                      +4
                      They CONFIRMED Putin and me.
                      "Breast affairs,
                      clutter of phenomena
                      the day is gone
                      gradually darkened.
                      Two in the room.
                      Я
                      and Lenin ... "
                      Excuse me, Putin? Why are you telling me
                      Well, NOT Putin, put any name of the politician. Then the word Elections, what happens? Well, did the prince brighten? Yes, there’s also an interview with Alexander Bortnikov, which he gave on the eve of the Day of a Security Officer, to the editor-in-chief of Rossiyskaya Gazeta.
                      I know you are there lol Then do not cry when you are presented with epithets from Khan Tengri, if you know the meaning. You yourself beg, Mr. NOT, a man of low density.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 16 January 2018 10: 53
                        +2
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Well, NOT Putin, put any name of the politician. Then the word Elections, what happens?

                        Nothing will work. In Russian - learn to express thoughtsrequest
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Yes, there is still and an interview with Alexander Bortnikov, which he gave on the eve of the Day of the security officer, to the editor-in-chief of Rossiyskaya Gazeta.

                        Where is the "here" ?! Why "here"? belay
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Then do not cry when you are presented with epithets from Khan Tengri, if you know the meaning.

                        He characterizes them, first of all yourself. Does this even reach you? request
                    3. avva2012
                      avva2012 16 January 2018 12: 30
                      +2
                      request

                      The human answer is NOT. And what took so long the other bukfs? laughing
          2. verner1967
            verner1967 15 January 2018 18: 29
            +3
            Quote: avva2012
            he will not “mock”.

            and he didn’t quiver, he said bluntly:
            What about the code of the builders of communism? This is sublimation, this is a primitive excerpt from the Bible, nothing new was invented there.
            1. sxfRipper
              sxfRipper 15 January 2018 22: 35
              0
              This was said long before him, he only remembered to the place.
              1. Freeman
                Freeman 15 January 2018 23: 59
                0
                Quote: sxfRipper
                This was said long before him, he only remembered to the place.

                Zyuganov had said this before. Here is the 2011 video.

                Or here's another - 2016.
                Zyuganov considers Christ "the first communist in the chronology"
                MOSCOW, April 20. / TASS /. Communist Party leader Gennady Zyuganov confirmed that the Communists did not intend to refuse to participate in May Day rallies, despite information about their possible cancellation in several regions of Russia due to the celebration of Easter.

                As for the Orthodox Easter, which this year also falls on May 1, Zyuganov called the feast of the Resurrection of Christ "an amazing, wonderful holiday," which "does not in the least contradict the solidarity of the working people." “Because Christ was the first communist in the new chronology. He raised his voice for the orphans, for the afflicted, for the poor, for the sick, for the wretched - all who feel bad and hard. And in this respect, if he were alive, he would was in our columns, "said the head of the Central Committee of the Communist Party.

                Read more: http://tass.ru/obschestvo/3223717
      2. Boris55
        Boris55 15 January 2018 09: 12
        0
        Quote: avva2012
        But Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, compared the ideas of communism with the Orthodox religion

        So K.Marx’s teaching is a Bible adapted for non-baptism. Didn't you know about this?
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 15 January 2018 10: 00
          +8
          And which of K. Marx’s books can be considered a “teaching”? In general, different representatives of faiths consider themselves Communists. For example, in Latin America, the Catholic faith is treated normally. Many priests helped the Marxists in Cuba, Nicaragua. The Communists in the Islamic countries of the Almighty do not deny.
          There is dialectical materialism that denies the existence of a higher rational power, but only leftist, Trotskyist movements negatively relate to religion. V.I. Lenin spoke of religion in his article “On the attitude of the workers' party to religion” published in the Proletarian newspaper No. 45 of 13 (26) on May 1909, “We must not only allow, but also involve all workers who maintain faith in God, in the Social-Democrats party, we are certainly against the slightest insult to their religious beliefs, but we attract them to educate in the spirit of our program, and not to actively combat it "or" if the priest comes to us for joint political work and carries out conscientious party work without speaking out party’s program, then we can accept him in the ranks of the Social-Democrats, for the contradiction of the spirit and foundations of our program with the religious convictions of the priest could remain under such conditions only concerning him, his personal contradiction, and examine his members new there is no contradiction between their views and the Party program a political organization can not. ".
          “Fight against religious prejudice must be extremely careful; those who bring insult to religious feelings in this struggle do much harm. It is necessary to fight through propaganda, through enlightenment. By sharpening the struggle, we can embitter the masses; such a struggle strengthens the division of the masses according to the principle of religion; our strength is in unity. The deepest source of religious prejudice is poverty and darkness; and we must fight this evil ”(Complete collection of works. xNUMX p. 37). http://leninism.su/lie/186-lenin-i-religiya.html
          1. Luga
            Luga 15 January 2018 10: 40
            +4
            Quote: avva2012
            V.I. Lenin talked about religion in his article “On the attitude of the workers' party to religion”

            The Bolsheviks were not originally enemies of Orthodoxy. This church, in the person of its hierarchs, actually unleashed a war with the Bolsheviks, making political statements of an anti-Soviet nature and unleashing appropriate agitation. The repression of the Bolsheviks against the church is a purely defensive reaction and, it seems to me, quite justified. It is unfortunate that the church was unable to distance itself from politics. How much blood could not have been shed if in the 1917 year the patriarch blessed the Soviet regime and voluntarily transferred church lands and wealth to the state, leaving only the most necessary for the performance of the rites. How many churches and icons would not be destroyed, taken out, but simply lost, how much knowledge could be saved. What colossal damage inflicted by the Soviet regime on the Russian Orthodox culture could have been avoided ...
            I am absolutely not a religious person, but even to me, a person completely alien to any religious faiths, I am terribly sorry that the leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church acted so short-sightedly, in fact, jeopardizing its very existence.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 15 January 2018 11: 13
              +7
              The repression of the Bolsheviks against the church is a purely defensive reaction and, it seems to me, quite justified.

              In principle, there’s nothing to add to your comment. All right. It’s really sad.
              The only thing that can be said is that during the civil war, until power was established, anyone could act on the ground under the red banner. And the anarchists, and some sort of maximalists, and indeed, just bandits, including the "white". I do not think that the false "partisan detachments" are the know-how of the Nazi troops. For now, all dogs are hanged on the “reds”.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 15 January 2018 15: 52
              +4
              Quote: Luga
              if in 1917 the patriarch would bless the Soviet power and voluntarily transfer church lands and wealth to the state,

              What a cross? belay What kind of beast is such- "Soviet power"? Nobody accepted her, did not recognize her. So the church was absolutely logical and consistent.
              Quote: Luga
              This church in the person of its hierarchs actually unleashed a war with the Bolsheviks, making political statements of an anti-Soviet nature and launching the corresponding campaign.

              Poor fluffy Bolsheviks-ALL "attacked" them lol .! They arenobody they didn’t overthrow and didn’t disperse anyone and didn’t kill, but they took up arms against them .... fool
          2. Boris55
            Boris55 15 January 2018 10: 45
            +1
            Quote: avva2012
            And which of K. Marx’s books can be considered a “teaching”?

            To answer your question, it is necessary to answer the question: what is the Bible? The Bible consists of two sets of books - the Old Testament, where it is written how to enslave the World and the New Testament, where it is painted how the enslaved to keep in obedience.
            Marx in Capital painted what capitalism is and revealed all its vulnerabilities i.e. kind of created the "Old Testament". The New Testament is the thorium of Communism.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 15 January 2018 11: 22
              +2
              The main book for a Christian, by and large, is the gospel. The Old Testament is intended to prove that Jesus is the Messiah. Where is the enslavement of whom, I still do not understand.
              K. Marx in "Capital" described what capitalism is. Everything. The theory of communism is not set forth in one book yet. PSS V.I. Lenin?
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 15 January 2018 11: 29
                0
                Quote: avva2012
                "Old Testament" - Where there is the enslavement of whom, I still do not understand.

                Here are a couple of quotes:

                Quote: avva2012
                The theory of communism is not set forth in one book yet

                The principles of communism are stated by F. Engels in the work of the same name.

                About Jesus. He was sent by the God of the Jewish tribe to their turning point in life, but to instruct their on the way of God's providence. They, having perverted the teachings of Christ, turned him into a weapon to enslave the World. There are many books in the Bible from various prophets. There is not a single book from Jesus in it!
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 15 January 2018 11: 44
                  +2
                  Boris, once again, the "Old Calling" is intended to justify the legitimacy of Jesus, God forgive me for this word as the Messiah. In general, this is a holy book, but still, modern man does not need to treat what is written in it as a guide to action. There are many parables that allegorically teach, develop, suggest certain thoughts. Although there were people who took everything literally and performed certain actions, becoming stupid by their stupidity, "If your hand or your foot seduces you," "if your eye seduces you" ...
                2. avva2012
                  avva2012 15 January 2018 11: 48
                  +4
                  There are many books in the Bible from various prophets. There is not a single book from Jesus in it!

                  The gospel itself is the teaching of Christ. Boris, Jesus is not a prophet. This is basic knowledge.
                  1. Boris55
                    Boris55 15 January 2018 11: 58
                    +1
                    Quote: avva2012
                    The gospel itself

                    Gospel - in Russian revelations. Once again, the Bible contains many revelations from various prophets. There is no revelation from Jesus in it. There are some sayings of Christ scattered throughout the Bible.
                    Quote: avva2012
                    In general, this is a holy book, but still, modern man does not need to treat what is written in it as a guide to action.

                    Sorry, but in my opinion you have never read the Old Testament.
                    "... but the prophet of one or the dreamer must be put to death ..." (Deuteronomy 13: 5).
                    “Do not leave the spells alive (Exodus 22: 18).
                    “He who sacrifices to the gods, except one gentleman, may he be destroyed (Exodus 22:20).
                    And the bonfires of the Inquisition flamed throughout Europe, including and Russia ...


                    Which of these Bibles do you consider sacred?
                    - 982 year. The Bible was translated by Cyril and Methodius;
                    - 1499 year. The Gennadiev Bible appeared (the first biblical Bible containing the Old and New Testaments);
                    - 1581 year. Bible of the first printer Ivan Fedorov (Ostrog Bible);
                    - 1663 year. Moscow edition of the Russian Bible (is a somewhat revised text of the Ostrog Bible);
                    - 1751 year. Elizabethan Bible
                    - 1876 year. The synodal translation distributed by the Russian Orthodox Church today.
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 15 January 2018 12: 09
                      +3
                      Boris, what religion do you profess?
                      I understand that it is useless to argue with you, but the Messiah and the Prophet are completely different forms. Prophets predicted the appearance of the Messiah.
                      1. Boris55
                        Boris55 15 January 2018 12: 25
                        +1
                        I believe God. I do not believe the warlocks. Jesus received the status of God at the Council of Nicaea in 325 by a simple vote with two abstentions.
                        Well, now tell me how the appearance of the mission saved the Indians of North America, 95% of the aborigines of Australia exterminated, and others from the madness of those who believed in it.
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 15 January 2018 12: 42
                      +3
                      Boris, you would like to debate with bober1982. I pass. Superstitions are not strong, and there is no desire to understand them, to be honest.
                    3. Dimmih
                      Dimmih 17 January 2018 10: 40
                      +1
                      The gospel in Russian is the Good News, and Revelation is the Apocalypse. Being an opponent of the views of your opponent in the dispute, AVVA2012, I am still "terrified" of the quality of your knowledge. If you say something, don’t be too lazy to even google, so that you won’t be blamed for carrying nonsense to the masses.
                3. sxfRipper
                  sxfRipper 15 January 2018 22: 39
                  +1
                  So naturally - the Old Testament was created long before the birth of Jesus Christ)))
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 16 January 2018 06: 10
      +2
      Quote: Olgovich
      ,
      a version of the argument was proposed related to the "socialist renewal of the capital"
      The ignoramuses without memory and conscience, who destroyed half of the monuments of Moscow, its historical buildings, filled it with the mediocre puffy streets of Koiky, also wanted to rename in a fit of fawning. There are no words.

      And who was in Moscow when? The Bolsheviks just kept the buildings (except for the dilapidated Moscow houses of another 2-3 floors), but did not create remodels and business centers, hotels made of glass and concrete in the historical center. This ----- is already a manifestation of capitalism returned
      1. Romulus
        Romulus 16 January 2018 06: 19
        +1
        Quote: Reptiloid
        And who was in Moscow when?

        And there was - the unforgettable Yuri Mikhalych with his wife and associates)
  5. nivander
    nivander 15 January 2018 08: 20
    +1
    right now the Sumerians have the same itch
  6. Conductor
    Conductor 15 January 2018 08: 46
    +5
    )))) And in Alma-Ata, at the request of the people, Furmanov Avenue did become Nazarbayev Avenue. So Baybek licked so licked.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 15 January 2018 09: 04
      +3
      Who is Furmanov for independent Kazakhstan? Not an occupier yet. Until.
      1. your1970
        your1970 15 January 2018 12: 30
        +3
        Quote: avva2012
        Who is Furmanov for independent Kazakhstan? Not an occupier yet. Until.
        - even theoretically, Furmanov did not fight in Kazakhstan - the lands along the Urals (river) were the lands of the Ural Cossack army, with which the Chapaev division fought. Therefore, even formally the most rabid in the Republic of Kazakhstan cannot call him an invader.
        Although everything happens in life, Ukraine wants the borders of 1917 ....
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 15 January 2018 12: 44
          +5
          I meant that Furmanov was Russian. With the shining of national identity against the backdrop of anti-Sovietism, all Russians can become occupiers.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 15 January 2018 16: 37
            +4
            And why the word CAN?
            Quote: avva2012
            I meant that Furmanov was Russian. With the shining of national identity against the backdrop of anti-Sovietism, all Russians can become occupiers.

            This happened, is happening in the post-Soviet space! Russians are DESIGNED by the invaders, otherwise their identity cannot be created and the backwardness after independence cannot be explained.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 15 January 2018 16: 54
              +4
              Yeah, climbed out, bais, beks. Genghisides will appear soon. Well, and what, Russia, gives an example itself.
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 15 January 2018 20: 36
                +3
                Quote: avva2012
                Yeah, climbed out, bais, beks. Genghisides will appear soon. Well, and what, Russia, gives an example itself.

                Uh! Why soon ?! Already have, yes!
                Not Chingizid, of course, but ... Tashkent, Amir Temur Square (why not the Emir and why not Timur? Kh.z. request)
                The former square of the Revolution ...

                Former Konstantinovsky square.

                Ps All photos from about one angle.
        2. parusnik
          parusnik 15 January 2018 18: 46
          +4
          Even theoretically Furmanov did not fight in Kazakhstan
          .... June 30, 1919 because of the transfer from the division to Turkestan. From August 1919 to September 1920, he was the head of the political department of the Turkestan Front, and from the end of 1919, he was an authorized RVSR in Semirechye. June 12-19, 1920 during the uprising in the garrison of Verny, now Alma-Ata, played a key role in the liquidation of the uprising: Furmanov conducted negotiations with the rebels, dragging out time until the right units arrived, this is described by him in the novel "Mutiny" .
          1. your1970
            your1970 16 January 2018 09: 18
            0
            Seven Rivers and Verny - territories (and lands) of the Cossack army (Semirechensky).
            I probably incorrectly put it - I meant that he did NOT fight on the lands of the originally Kazakh (Kyrgyz-Kaisatsky) Bukeev horde, the Elder and Middle Zhuz.
            Exclusively the land of the Cossack troops ...
  7. mavrus
    mavrus 15 January 2018 11: 40
    +2
    Quote: Headless Horseman
    They were ready to turn everything upside down
    If only to line up before the leader
    It still didn't help wassat

    And in the 90s, when they were crawling in front of the new owners, renaming everything and everyone ... Wasn’t it "funny" for you ... And the very recent deflection of our shit-stealing houses to rename the bridge in honor of the murdered Yefimich ... "Helpful fools" during all era is enough.
  8. Naputeon bonaput
    Naputeon bonaput 15 January 2018 12: 47
    +2
    The Bolshevik nonsense and servility have no analogies in history. This obscurity is so shameful in its form that there is serious, undeniable evidence of the tyranny of the political regime and the moral decay of society.
    1. Hantengri
      Hantengri 15 January 2018 21: 59
      +3
      And deliberately, contrary to the spelling generally accepted in modern Russian, to write "Bolshevsky", what is this? Dope? Adulation? Lizobluzhenie? Or everything taken together, multiplied by the cargo cult?
      1. Naputeon bonaput
        Naputeon bonaput 16 January 2018 05: 30
        +1
        Bolshevik. So arrange?
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 16 January 2018 19: 52
          +1
          Quote: Naputeon Bonaput
          Bolsheviks. So arrange?

          No, "Bonya" will not work! You wrote "Bolsheviks" ... I really want to understand why? What, for you, personally, means the difference between these "... Tskiy" and "... sky", if the meaning of the phrase does not change from this? (A purely professional interest. You may not answer.)
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 17 January 2018 05: 22
            +1
            I doubt that he will answer, but I think these are symptoms of the manifestation of a cargo cult. One is studying the "yatis", the other says, as in the films about the civil war, they said, all sorts, dad angels. This is all from a great mind and erudition, as you understand.
            1. Naputeon bonaput
              Naputeon bonaput 17 January 2018 05: 33
              0
              The word was written with a mistake, although not so significant as to tear the hair.
  9. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 15 January 2018 12: 56
    +1
    If anyone wanted to rename Moscow, it’s Sverdlov.
  10. wax
    wax 15 January 2018 13: 56
    +2
    Ignorance always creeps forward.
  11. Dzmicer
    Dzmicer 15 January 2018 15: 10
    +4
    I won’t be surprised if, after the March presidential election, contemporary slabbers will begin to send letters to the AP asking to rename Moscow to Putin. laughing
    Also, I won’t be surprised if there were already such contributors.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 15 January 2018 15: 18
      +4
      Also, I won’t be surprised if, after the March presidential election, people like you and your kind disappear from the network in surprise.
    2. Freeman
      Freeman 15 January 2018 23: 26
      0
      Quote: Dzmicer
      I won’t be surprised if, after the March presidential election, contemporary slabbers will begin to send letters to the AP asking to rename Moscow to Putin.


      "The city of Vladimir was renamed to Vladimir Vladimirovich" - such a joke roamed at the beginning of this century. And the young residents of the city of Vladimir brought it to life.
      The city of Vladimir was renamed to Vladimir Vladimirovich. Photoreport
      Today, October 7, 2012, Vladimir Putin turns 60 years old. In honor of this, Vladimir students made posters with the inscription "Vladimirovich, happy birthday!" and they intended to hang them under seven signs of entry into the city.


      https://593582.surfingbird.ru/surf/bx.wE4b82#.Wl0
      LnKDJxBQ
  12. Monarchist
    Monarchist 15 January 2018 17: 25
    +5
    Once upon a time I heard on the radio that in the Middle Ages some “retivists” suggested to the Pope: to assign the names of Christ to the Sun, and the Moon to the Virgin Mary. He sent an astronomer’s request, and there a tricky demagogue was found and wrote the answer: “Is it possible to say:” Christ’s face rolled, eclipse of Christ? And with the Moon it’s even more difficult: “it’s full, it can be flawed. It can cause blasphemy:“ became pregnant, and then gave birth, ”and therefore they are waiting for an explanation from His Holiness.” Perhaps the Pope did it himself, or maybe the demagogy turned out to be stronger, but he sent “retivists” in such expressions that .. “mother Mia”
  13. Monarchist
    Monarchist 15 January 2018 17: 29
    +2
    Quote: Dzmicer
    I won’t be surprised if, after the March presidential election, contemporary slabbers will begin to send letters to the AP asking to rename Moscow to Putin. laughing
    Also, I won’t be surprised if there were already such contributors.

    Dear, it’s the 21st century and officials are cunning: V.V. will win, but he doesn’t have any worthy rivals, but he will not last forever and next time rename again?
    1. Freeman
      Freeman 15 January 2018 23: 40
      0
      Monarchist Today, 17:29 AM
      Dear, it’s the 21st century and officials are cunning: V.V. will win, but he doesn’t have any worthy rivals, but he’s not forever and next time rename again?

      That is not to be your official, you do not have a "large-scale thinking." laughing
      Renaming, it's a budget! And the budget can be "cut"! Or in an extreme case, feed the "pocket" companies registered at home.
      wassat
  14. Gardamir
    Gardamir 15 January 2018 20: 31
    +3
    Yes, in general, oh, these scoops they just renamed something, did not do anything else, renamed, and did galoshes for Africa.
    The city of Alexandrovsk on Murman was renamed in 1939 the Polar.
    Belotsarsk in 1926 in Kyzyl
    Toyohara city in 1946 in Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk
    And many more examples of Obdorsk in Salekhard, Oranienbaum in Lomonosov, Friedland in the city of Pravdinsk.
    But the biggest sin of the Bolsheviks, the power was popular, free education and medicine, And even with the advice there were no oligarchs not subject to jurisdiction, this is absolutely outrageous.
    If the Yeltsin-Sobchak coup d'etat had failed, what would the Rottenbergs do now? And Shuvalov probably would not have to keep the dogs.
    And most importantly, now we all live well, well, you know the cars in the yards, 100 varieties of sausages, around one billionaires.
    1. Naputeon bonaput
      Naputeon bonaput 16 January 2018 05: 57
      0
      There were no oligarchs, but the mafia was always there. And they rummaged in millions, and roofed them up to ministers and office workers.
      Education and medicine, although free, are at the level of the then countries of Latin America or Turkey. Those. not really g. but obviously backward. While the cadres who had been educated in the Republic of Ingushetia and who had gone through the crucible of the Second World War were in good health, all this somehow held on. But when the Kukharkins' children (Yeltsins and dogs) took up education and medicine, everything fell apart. And education, and medicine, and the army, and society, and ideology (already primitive), and the country.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 16 January 2018 06: 00
        +3
        Do not write nonsense. In 70, the UN recognized the best medicine in the USSR.
        1. Naputeon bonaput
          Naputeon bonaput 16 January 2018 07: 00
          +1
          Do you believe international ratings?
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 16 January 2018 07: 08
            +2
            Heh. It’s they who are right now, around the 80s. And before that they were very respected, and authoritative.
            1. Naputeon bonaput
              Naputeon bonaput 16 January 2018 07: 24
              0
              Well, for sure, representatives of the countries of "people's democracy" and other lumumbas were probably members of the UN commission. Accordingly, recognition. It’s not even corruption - so, the slanderers nodded like Pekingese.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 16 January 2018 07: 28
                +2
                Write nonsense again. When, for example, the WHO recognized alcohol as a drug, our entire delegation left the meeting in protest. laughing Because, as Brezhnev respected vodka. yes
                1. Naputeon bonaput
                  Naputeon bonaput 16 January 2018 07: 34
                  0
                  Is this evidence of lack of influence?
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 16 January 2018 07: 35
                    +2
                    Yeah. How did you guess? crying
                    1. Naputeon bonaput
                      Naputeon bonaput 16 January 2018 08: 06
                      0
                      Well, not all of the cat is a Shrovetide) Brezhnev may have felt sorry, or a couple of lumumbas have fallen from the clip. There weren’t enough votes, you know.
  15. Normal ok
    Normal ok 16 January 2018 14: 50
    +2
    "Stalinadar"
    Bulgakov with his "Dog Heart" is immortal.
  16. avva2012
    avva2012 17 January 2018 05: 16
    +1
    Alex_59,
    Social democracy professes the same basic values ​​as Orthodoxy - justice, equality, freedom. Therefore, this is the future of mankind.

    In general, I personally completely agree with you, but social democracy is still a transitional stage. Without elements of private property, for now, it is not possible to do. This was perfectly understood by V.I. Lenin and I.V. Stalin. The bourgeois attitude / ideology cannot be abolished by decree, but it is necessary to work towards transferring only to public property and building a classless one. Otherwise it will not work, the contradictions will increase, there will be another 91.