Military Review

Dunning-Kruger syndrome in the light of the issue of the history of weapons

208
Against the stupidity of the gods themselves are powerless to fight!
Friedrich Schiller



In 1999, Justin Kruger and David Dunning were put forward, and then the hypothesis of a psychological phenomenon was experimentally confirmed, resulting in the name of the authors. The essence of the phenomenon is that people with a low level of knowledge in the subject area (competence) make erroneous inferences. And since the low level of competence does not allow them to sort out their own mistakes, they consider their opinion to be the ultimate truth. No scientifically reasoned argument will force them to change their mind. Americans did not fly to the moon, and that's it. (For scientific evidence of Americans staying on the moon, see the end of the article.)

The main topic of the articles of the authors affected by this ailment is the overthrow of truths, groundbreaking, sensations sucked from the finger (one of the four themes of tabloid literature: fear, sex, scandal and sensation; four “C”). The authors, whose own technical level does not go beyond the scope of a hank of blue electrical tape, are taken to judge the features of German stamping forty-two years. Kneading on a spoonful of useful information, sucked from archives or open sources, a barrel of conjectures and expounding a theme in the form of a banter, you can count on attracting equally close readers. The subconscious meaning of such publications is trivial trolling, provoking readers with polar views to publicly clarify the relationship with the use of insults.

According to the psychologists, behind the banter intonation of pressure and superiority often hidden consciousness of their own incompetence and failure. Ambition, elevation over others, the desire to feel better than others can be one of the goals of a banter (Wikipedia).

The inclusion of irony in the text is like a spice to the dish. A little, but the taste is remembered for a long time. But when the whole text is written in the manner of mockery, it is already nauseous. I recommend to trace the degradation of Michael Weller in this regard. His first works were read with interest, the irony was appropriate and he wrote, in general, about what he had practical experience with. But as soon as he began to write about things in which he doesn't understand a damn thing, he fell into a jerk. His latest novel, Our Prince and Khan, is impossible to read. There are, of course, lovers far from stories, philosophies, theories of systems that will take this book for the first time and will be amazed by the elegant turns of thought, the beauty of verbal patterns and the abundance of irony and sarcasm, but they will not find useful information there. Do not fall for this bait. Appreciate your time.

Let's go back to our riflearmory subject.

A prominent representative of the chamber marked by Dunning-Kruger syndrome is the well-known blogger Kungurov, who has reached the dock in his work. Recently, I had the indiscretion of disrespectfully replying to a single opus by a similar author, published in LJ. I do not give the link, so as not to increase the karma of the patient. Those interested can easily identify the author of the above quotes. And since my interlocutor (not the author of the opus) asked me for arguments in the studio, I had to promise to answer with a detailed article.

So, the opus begins:

"... I would like to spit the following theses ..."


Sick, show the language. Why not "... I would like to throw g ... on the fan"? We decided to get away from stamps, to be original. Understandably, understandably. Well, what about us?

1) The last time the cartridge for the main weapon was relatively normal, was something like 1930x. And it was not the military who prevailed there (it just taxied out (9X19), but economic considerations (we’ll cut the trunks for the 7,62 from rifle scraps). In practice, of course, it turned out about the scraps ... nya, but in general, for software, that’s awesome cartridge that Luger, in fact, were approximately monopenisual.


(Hereinafter quotations are given without editing, but with the replacement of the dots of wickedness. - Ed.)

The trunks of "rifle scraps" are like trunks of the "scraps" of rifle barrels used in the Soudaev submachine gun. A fact known in the history of weapons, really allowed to reduce the costs of producing better PP of the second world war. PPP was better than its competitor MP-40, not only in TTX, but cost almost three times cheaper, including for the expense of "... and" from the scraps. But what a thick shell of verbal diarrhea, which carries absolutely no useful information, and what a distortion of the correct technical solution in "... nude"!

2) cartridge arr. 43, how many do not inflate the cheeks, appeared as a reaction to the German cruiser fire, and the principle of "on ... more" - a sleeve in 39 mm (first 40 in general) against theirs 33. Although, again, with our gunpowder of that time on the German sleeve, we would hardly have obtained the necessary characteristics, the sad experience of the German PTR is very indicative in this regard.


I do not know how the others, but I understand this mental bowel movement as follows. Our designers, creating a new cartridge, did not work according to the customer’s specifications and did not carry out calculations and experiments for different calibers, bullets, shapes, compositions of gunpowder, loading densities and liner sizes, but focused on the length of the German cartridge case, and worse in power, just increased the length of the liner. The meaning of this insinuation is in the phrase “how many blow your cheeks.” It’s not even easy to discredit the achievement of creating one of the most famous and mass patrons of the twentieth century, it’s a spit in the spirit of Nevzorov, which has reached the point of utter absurdity, to the point of decency and common sense, after which schizophrenia begins. What are the "necessary characteristics" needed to get on the German sleeve with our gunpowder? To whom? What is our gunpowder WUFL was worse than the German Nz.RP1x0.8 / 0.2? What does the apparent sadness in the German PTR? In general, sheer drama.

3) After the war, they tried to bring the "43 obr." Long and tediously, but then a new potential opponent threw the topic of the unimpulsive patron again had to be caught up and overtaken.


Work on the improvement of models of weapons, whether it is a cartridge or a footcloth, is ongoing. This is an obvious fact, a characteristic of any creative process. The search for improved performance characteristics and lower production costs is the path to which the product goes after its adoption. The product will either be improved, or the customer will refuse it. There is no other scenario. To call it a long and tedious procedure of “bringing to the mind” means only that the author has no idea about design and production. The term "life cycle" is unknown to him.

Life is not a sport. The laurels of the "discoverers" of the new type of cartridge let it dry on the bald heads of their developers. The second are always the winners, who, having studied the mistakes of the “discoverers”, create a superior sample, as was the case with the intermediate 7,62х39 and low-pulse 5,45х39 cartridges.

As a result - you can, of course, be proud for a long time that 1913 overtook the year in the smelting of iron, in the sense that our analogue flies better and pierces more than that of the adversary, but often it's just a story that the road to the deadlock / swamp succeeded pass on. Well, or take the first place in the competition of fools. In a hard and long struggle, yes :)


At the competition of fools, and so it is clear who the first exhibit is: not the one who is in the labutenes, but the one who makes more foolishness that the story of creating a better weapon than the opponent’s turned out to be a fairy tale about the road to the swamp.

And with the Americans and the Moon, everything is very simple. Tell me, will Americans take the risk of falsifying the landing on the moon, if by that time we had not only planted our vehicles on its surface at a given point, but had launched a lunar rover almost simultaneously with them? Could it be that the Russians, at the slightest suspicion of falsifying the landings by the Americans, would not have used their lunar rovers to disgrace them to the whole world?

In my opinion, the arguments are more than convincing. Despite this, there are still not translated amateurs and professionals in the field of four "C" (among which may be persons with academic degrees!), Who periodically spit their theses into the media space, denigrating the national history. And sometimes just insulting people alive and departed, to which these schkokers like Papuans before Schiller.
Author:
208 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 06: 11
    19
    (For scientific evidence of Americans staying on the moon, see the end of the article.)
    and some competent people are not sure ...
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 06: 15
      +2
      is Weller degraded ... ???
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 06: 24
        26
        And with the Americans and the Moon, everything is very simple. Tell me, will Americans take the risk of falsifying the landing on the moon, if by that time we had not only planted our vehicles on its surface at a given point, but had launched a lunar rover almost simultaneously with them? Could it be that the Russians, at the slightest suspicion of falsifying the landings by the Americans, would not have used their lunar rovers to disgrace them to the whole world?
        the author is naive as a young girl ... laughing the word TRANSACTION doesn’t tell him anything? take an interest in what the USSR acquired as a result of this ... KAMAZ, etc. can be silent? -yes easily. And what about the Van Allen radiation belt? author, since you are so "competent", answer. the question is open to this day, and the Americans "flew away" and lived until old age irradiated ... og ...
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 15 January 2018 09: 16
          12
          You have all the symptoms described by the author.

          And the USSR acquired the EMNIP centner of pebbles and soil samples from the moon. He seemed to be given to many.
          1. KERMET
            KERMET 15 January 2018 12: 00
            +7
            Memory is cheating on you, refresh it by reading documents
          2. CONTROL
            CONTROL 15 January 2018 13: 36
            +9
            Quote: EvilLion
            And the USSR acquired the EMNIP centner of pebbles and soil samples from the moon. He seemed to be given to many.

            ... but one such one - with "symptoms"! - not too lazy to calculate the total mass distributed by NASA to various American and foreign laboratories of the "lunar soil"; it so happened - the total weight is greater than the descent module! Well, no more, of course ... but - more than 360 kilos; with the claimed 325 kg (like thimbles in the market, by golly ...). But this is nothing - there is less gravity on the moon !!! that's just for these "two percent" with packaging tape ...
            ---------------------------------
            ... this is especially for those who can not further "electrical tape" ...
            ---------------------------------
            In addition - then many very profitable political the agreement of the USSR with the USA - which they are now trying to "win back"! Well - and we, the USSR - our "titanium T-4" - "leaked" ... Here's a deal!
            -------------------------------------
            ... and the "strange" deaths of American astronauts, members of the "lunar program" ....
            Well this is necessary - accidentally get on a bicycle under a tractor! ...
            1. your1970
              your1970 15 January 2018 14: 30
              +3
              Quote: CONTROL
              Well this is necessary - accidentally get on a bicycle under a tractor! ...
              - i.e. when in our steppe (!!!!) a motorcyclist managed to get under Kirovets (which can be seen and heard for 5 kilometers) - these were also some intrigues of unknown special services .. ???
              Z.Y. both were sober ...
              1. Felix99
                Felix99 15 January 2018 14: 43
                +4
                This is the proof that Gagarin was on the moon before the Americans. Because of this, he was killed.
            2. Alex_59
              Alex_59 15 January 2018 15: 22
              +5
              Quote: CONTROL
              ... and the "strange" deaths of American astronauts, members of the "lunar program" ....

              And Kennedy was flunked. And Gagarin. Well, you have to get into the satellite stream of another plane so successfully!
              Quote: CONTROL
              then many very favorable political agreements between the USSR and the USA were reached

              What kind? Just wondering what it is about? A list would be with the dates of the conclusion and the real profit of the USSR.
              Quote: CONTROL
              Well - and we, the USSR - our "titanium T-4" - "leaked" ... Here's a deal!

              That is, they shut up our mouths, and in return we refused to build our own advanced aircraft. Fuck a deal. We probably still paid the United States for all this? Of course, I’m a brake, but I recall that when they make a deal, they gain something. A deal where we are silenced and forbidden to build a promising aircraft - there’s a catch somewhere, maybe we were thrown somewhere. I can’t understand where only.
              1. CONTROL
                CONTROL 16 January 2018 08: 51
                +3
                Quote: Alex_59
                Quote: CONTROL
                ... and the "strange" deaths of American astronauts, members of the "lunar program" ....

                And Kennedy was flunked. And Gagarin. Well, you have to get into the satellite stream of another plane so successfully!
                Almost ALL of them “died” or died with “strange” deaths - even the Americans themselves have serious doubts when adding these “bricks to the house”!
                Quote: CONTROL
                then many very favorable political agreements between the USSR and the USA were reached

                What kind? Just wondering what it is about? A list would be with the dates of the conclusion and the real profit of the USSR.
                Read the yellow press! In the presence of an analytical (that is - normal!) Mindset provides excellent food for thought, comparison and conclusions - the method of "reading between the lines" and "screening out the unbelievable to reveal the obvious" ...
                Quote: CONTROL
                Well - and we, the USSR - our "titanium T-4" - "leaked" ... Here's a deal!

                That is, they shut up our mouths, and in return we refused to build our own advanced aircraft. Fuck a deal.
                Do you think that the USSR had no "stocks"?
                Or - what, say, now - Russia does not have them? Offhand - five serious "punctures" of Russia in international relations, economics, trade, culture? ... you will not name? Starting, say, with Yeltsin - or even with Gorbachev ... not to mention the "ideal" Putin ?!
                ... Otkel "trezheris"?
                ----------------------------------------
                Oh, [Alex], holy (???) simplicity ... worse than theft?
                1. Alex_59
                  Alex_59 16 January 2018 09: 05
                  +2
                  Quote: CONTROL
                  In the presence of an analytical (that is - normal!) Mindset provides excellent food for thought, comparison and conclusions - the method of "reading between the lines" and "screening out the unbelievable to reveal the obvious" ...

                  Thank God, I’m not a troll, but a third-generation engineer. Head to think is trained. Suppose I conducted an analysis for myself, but I'm interested in your opinion on this matter. What kind of profit did the USSR receive (noticeable, palpable, bold) during the period when the United States flew to the moon or immediately afterwards? Such a profit, that if the Moon scam is completely excluded from the course of things of that period, then its receipt becomes impossible?
                  Quote: CONTROL
                  Do you think that the USSR had no "stocks"?

                  There were, of course, but in the scenario you propose, there was no cant on the cant and not a single smart successful solution. At first, the Americans screwed up without flying to the moon, then they screwed up once again recognizing this in negotiations with the USSR over the purchase of “silence”, giving the USSR one more lever of pressure on itself (a deal with the Communists). And then the USSR screwed up exchanging these levers for refusing to produce the T-4 aircraft. And the apotheosis of the absurd - both sides quickly agreed on this scenario and approved it, not even afraid to start such negotiations out of fear of “scammers” or “something went wrong.” Not a single leak of information! How did they do this, not allowing any leakage, if for the rest they have complete mess and uniform idiocy?
                  Or do you think the conclusion of the OSV and ABM agreements was this profit? That is, how would achieving parity in the strategic nuclear forces against the background of compromising material on the moon be like that, bullshit, a trifle?
                  What is it about the analytical (or normal!) Mindset? Don't you think that the concentration of idiots in this scenario is off the charts? It’s easier to really fly to the moon than to stir up such a scheme and not get pierced.
                  1. CONTROL
                    CONTROL 16 January 2018 09: 27
                    +1
                    Quote: Alex_59
                    Thank God, I’m not a troll, but a third-generation engineer. Head to think is trained. Suppose I conducted an analysis for myself, but I'm interested in your opinion on this matter. What kind of profit did the USSR receive (noticeable, palpable, bold) during the period when the United States flew to the moon or immediately afterwards? ...
                    Or do you think the conclusion of the OSV and ABM agreements was this profit? That is, how would achieving parity in the strategic nuclear forces against the background of compromising material on the moon be like that, bullshit, a trifle? .

                    The first - and the main, presumably - "profit" was a primitive "grub": the supply of wheat, meat and other food products by the USA, Canada and other Western countries to the USSR. And this is an officially recognized "profit" along with the SALT, strategic nuclear forces and missile defense agreements! Hence the conclusion: how bad things were in the USSR at that time precisely with food - more precisely, with the saturation of the market with high-calorie foods and convenience foods - at that time very common in Western countries, then already often and densely visited by residents of the socialist camp countries. Apparently, the collapse of the "food program" is one of the main, and perhaps the main "profit" in transactions with the United States (as the leader of the Western world).
                    First, the “titanium supersonic” rotting in Monino turned out to be very expensive (although the estimates of “expensive / cheap in the USSR and the USA didn’t coincide” due to radical differences between the real sectors of the economy and economic schools), and that time was unnecessary; they “ran ahead” very much (my relatives worked in the air-bureau, all the ups and downs were first-hand ...); which does not exclude the “reanimation” of the project ...
                    --------------------------------------
                    As for the American lies - everything is according to Churchill and Goebbels! They lied, they lie and they will lie - even if you catch them by the hand! ... How old have been celebrating the All-American Thanksgiving - and most Americans don’t know that this holiday marks the traditional annual massacre of Indians - Native Americans! Here is such a national tradition, such a holiday!
                    ... it's still in Halloween if you don't peek! Mentality s ...
                    1. Alex_59
                      Alex_59 16 January 2018 10: 34
                      0
                      Quote: CONTROL
                      The first - and the main, presumably - "profit" was a primitive "grub": the supply of wheat, meat and other food products by the USA, Canada and other Western countries to the USSR.

                      There were purchases of grub before the Moon epic, for example, in the 1963-64 years, when there was a food crisis in the USSR. If in exchange for silence about the lunar scam the USSR would receive a bunch of grub for free, I can still understand this. Or at a discount. And so - they bought it for gold. Bought before, bought after. What does the moon have to do with it?
                      Quote: CONTROL
                      And this is an officially recognized "profit" along with the SALT, strategic nuclear forces and missile defense agreements!

                      With the same success, the war in Vietnam can be pulled here. Why not? The Yankees handed over Vietnam to us in exchange for silence. And in the course of such logic, we are still wiping our feet on the Vietnamese, who, it turns out, seem to have not fought. And in the scheme with SALT and ABM we are wiping our feet about our military and engineers - they seem to have nothing to do with it. Apparently not their merit in the fact that the USSR caught up with the United States by the strength of the strategic nuclear forces. The main thing is the moon!
                      Oh, I would like to pull Cuba’s surrender here somehow! It was a pity the events were not at the time, no luck. And no matter what conspiracy thesis is, mmmm ....
                      I wonder what they traded when OSV-2 concluded and START-1 and -2. What else are we silent about?
                      Quote: CONTROL
                      very much "ran ahead"
                      Oh well, what you can not be! It’s clear to anyone that there is a conspiracy. Probably exchanged for XB-70.
                      Quote: CONTROL
                      They lied, they lie and they will lie - even though you catch them by the hand! ...
                      Moreover, I do not understand the interest of the United States in certain negotiations with the USSR over the concealment of the secrets of the Lunar Program. Well, the USSR would start yelling - the Yankees would show the middle finger and that’s it. As they always did, and do. Here's another, some grub to supply, on SALT and ABM to negotiate. It’s not for the rank of an exceptional nation to be so fond of before commies.
                      1. CONTROL
                        CONTROL 16 January 2018 10: 47
                        +2
                        Quote: Alex_59
                        There were purchases of grub before the Moon epic, for example, in the 1963-64 years, when there was a food crisis in the USSR. If in exchange for silence about the lunar scam the USSR would receive a bunch of grub for free, I can still understand this. Or at a discount. And so - they bought it for gold. Bought before, bought after. What does the moon have to do with it?

                        Well, free-will - a saved paradise ... believe- - do not believe, everyone’s private affair!
                        If I remember correctly, some kind of design was developed and implemented. very profitable for the USSR food supply program. And here it is - officially !!!
                        And the rest - well, you have rested in your "Stanislavschina"; "I do not believe" - ​​and that’s it! For God's sake - ...!
                        But the fact that Moscow allegedly made a “concession” in terms of “titanium supersonic sound”, betraying the impossibility or insurmountability of problems with the implementation of the project as such (concession) is a carefully hushed up fact!
                        As for the "political foresight" and "futurological insights" of the then leaders of the USA and the USSR, they - as they seem, are greatly exaggerated! at least, for comparison - the current ones can also be judged ... As correctly noted - the amount of intelligence on the planet is unchanged, while the population is growing steadily! such a sad maxim ...
                    2. Korax71
                      Korax71 16 January 2018 19: 39
                      +1
                      You need urgent help. Actually, the first Thanksgiving was celebrated in 1621 in honor of a good harvest, which, by the way, the Indians helped to grow, but not only as slaves, but as companions. And in celebration of thanks, the idea was arranged which is very like in other states.
                      1. CONTROL
                        CONTROL 17 January 2018 08: 48
                        +2
                        Quote: Korax71
                        You need urgent help. Actually, the first Thanksgiving was celebrated in 1621 in honor of a good harvest, which, by the way, the Indians helped to grow, but not only as slaves, but as companions. And in celebration of thanks, the idea was arranged which is very like in other states.

                        Yeah, the Indians helped! They taught whites to grow watermelons, corn, zucchini, even there ... which, by the way, saved the "white pilgrim people" from crop failure and subsequent hunger! For what - it must be, as a sign of great gratitude - the "white people" at this very holiday began to rape the Indian women, cut the Indians to zero ... And this was in 1637, when the governor of the Massachusetts Bay colony declared this day a holiday : after all, more than 700 Indians (including women and children) were stabbed to death with truncheons without any losses from the colonialists. This practice — the celebration of Thanksgiving — continued after each massacre; in the city of Plymouth, the severed head of the leader of the vampanoag tribe stuck out on a Coke for 24 years! Well, George theirs Washington slowly stopped this mess - since it was detrimental to the Negro slave trade (business, nothing personal) - after all, from every massacre they took from 500 to a thousand Indian slaves (worthless, by the way, slaves - well, the Indians didn’t want to work " for food! ”they strove to rebel or just to kill themselves ... whether it’s blacks!), and suggested / ordered to celebrate Thanksgiving once a year!
                        ... the Americans very short - and very propaganda-prone - selective memory! As in the case of “Docent who fell from the shelf” - “I remember, I don’t remember here” ...
                        -------------------------------------
                        By the way, the Americans "do not remember" the eerie "famine" - reflected in painting and even in the cinema ... prairies dotted with the corpses of the pilgrims who died of starvation! And there was more than one such "famine" ... Ukraine 31-37 years. smokes nervously on the sidelines! if we consider the number of corpses ... Nobody sent trains with grain and food to this starving one ... True, their houses and the corpses themselves were regularly robbed - again, "business, nothing personal" ...
      2. ImPerts
        ImPerts 15 January 2018 06: 28
        0
        Progress is evident!
        A little more and he will declare all the way ... and leave with grief in the west ... monastery.
    2. Finches
      Finches 15 January 2018 06: 18
      22
      I didn’t fully catch the author’s indignation in such an obvious question, but I won’t say anything about Dunning-Krueger syndrome, and the wise Russian people, God knows when, put it this way: "Be quiet, you will marry a smart one! " laughing

      And about Weller ... I don’t want to offend anyone, but in people of this nationality, after the arrival of at least some public success, the urge to immediately appoint themselves as the conscience of the nation! No more and no less, apparently, this is another syndrome - Solzhenitsyn’s syndrome ! laughing
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 06: 40
        +5
        Quote: Finches
        And about Weller ... I don’t want to offend anyone, but in people of this nationality, after the arrival of at least some public success, the urge to immediately appoint themselves as the conscience of the nation! No more and no less, apparently, this is another syndrome - Solzhenitsyn’s syndrome !

        and Malakhov’s syndrome of what? for me, Jewish Jew Weller is much nicer than THIS "Russian".
        1. Finches
          Finches 15 January 2018 07: 14
          +2
          And about Malakhov, here, excuse me, and did not go! hi
          1. Winnie76
            Winnie76 15 January 2018 08: 17
            +7
            The author is just some kind of nugget. And to you about the moon, and about the Dunning Krugers, and about bullets with pestles. Coryphaeus. That's who our Batkovich learned from Mujumar. He handed out to everyone a dule with proletarian directness. Probably this same Kruger syndrome somewhere in Izhevsk picked up.
            1. Winnie76
              Winnie76 15 January 2018 08: 27
              14
              PS Call Gridasov, it will be what Alien versus Predator
              1. Dym71
                Dym71 15 January 2018 09: 38
                +4
                Quote: Winnie76
                Call Gridasov

                And really, Gridasov, set the heat for this rogue from Izhevsk! bully
            2. CONTROL
              CONTROL 15 January 2018 13: 42
              +3
              Quote: Winnie76
              Kruger syndrome picked up somewhere in Izhevsk.

              ... running on VO!
        2. dSK
          dSK 15 January 2018 08: 08
          21
          Hello Andrey Yuryevich
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          Jew Weller
          Each time the capsule takes off, the platform remains on the moon. Our "Moon", which delivered samples of lunar soil to the earth, also left its platform. In addition, there were three "strollers left on the moon." "The rover of the seventeenth Apollo developed a record at that time 18 km / h. Its driver, Cernan, December 14, 1972 was the last person to set foot on the moon." Photo equipment of the 60s was weak and perhaps for better advertising, at a later time, the States took pavilion shots, "reconstruction" of landings. The coordinates of all landings are known. Since then, four countries have taken detailed photographs of the moon: both China and India. The lack of atmosphere provides clear pictures. All hardware found. For the sake of advertising their achievements, the States constantly make false stuff so that the topic is heard. There is such a way in the advertising industry to increase sales of goods. hi
          1. bunta
            15 January 2018 10: 26
            +8
            Quote: dsk
            States took pavilion shots,


            Here is the photo archive. 14 000 shots. Continuous photoshop. (Sarcasm).
            https://www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchiv
            e / albums
            1. meandr51
              meandr51 15 January 2018 14: 39
              +1
              An ordinary camera in space cold and heat will not work at all. The film will crumble and the shutter will jam. I do not believe in pictures on the moon with a camera on the belly.
              1. Sands Careers General
                Sands Careers General 21 January 2018 12: 00
                0
                What cold and heat in a vacuum? And astronauts were on the moon at the beginning of a lunar day.
            2. alexhol
              alexhol 15 January 2018 19: 28
              -2
              Thanks for the link. Sent to his engineer - he is also a big fan of "world conspiracies."
          2. dSK
            dSK 15 January 2018 12: 04
            +3
            "Six cars parked on the moon: a history of moon rovers." - https://www.popmech.ru/technologies/382872-shest-
            mashin-priparkovannyh-na-lune-istoriya-lunohodov /
            ? utm_referrer = https% 3A% 2F% 2Fzen.yandex.com
            1. dSK
              dSK 15 January 2018 12: 11
              +9
              Four countries launched the satellites of the moon and compiled a detailed atlas of it, all shrunken platforms and moon rovers were found, Chinese was the last.
              1. sabakina
                sabakina 15 January 2018 21: 37
                +3
                Quote: dsk
                Four countries launched the satellites of the moon and compiled a detailed atlas of it, all shrunken platforms and moon rovers were found, Chinese was the last.

                I have a question. How many days the lunar expedition lasted and how many excrement during this period 3 astronauts formed during this period, given that before the flight they ate fries and wore diapers, because they had no “space toilet” from the word at all!
                1. dSK
                  dSK 15 January 2018 21: 44
                  +1
                  Hello Vyacheslav!
                  Quote: sabakina
                  space toilet
                  a simple gateway-garbage chute, even communal services do not have to pay for garbage collection. hi
                  1. sabakina
                    sabakina 15 January 2018 23: 17
                    +4
                    Sergey, and you personally experienced this gateway in zero gravity? wink If my memory serves me, then Titov could not return to the station, because the spacesuit was inflated, had to bleed air. Americans did not know ANYTHING about this. And one more question. Why the hell did ours start large-scale exercises in the Atlantic just at that time? And what did they “catch” at sea on the day and hour of the launch of Apollo?
                    1. beeper
                      beeper 17 January 2018 02: 24
                      +2
                      Any Soviet boy whose childhood and youth fell on the space 60s would never have confused German Titov with Evgeny Leonov wink
                  2. dSK
                    dSK 16 January 2018 00: 45
                    0
                    Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO, Lunar Orbiting Probe) - NASA's automatic interplanetary station, an artificial moon satellite. The launch with the Atlas V launch vehicle took place on June 19, 2009. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Reconnaissance_ Orbiter
                    Photos taken with the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter - Apollo 11 landing site, 12, 14,15,16,17.
                    1. dSK
                      dSK 16 January 2018 01: 03
                      +1
                      The trick is that the United States constantly makes stuff about falsities Apollo flights - hSo the topic was always heard. There is such a way in the advertising industry. hi
      2. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 15 January 2018 11: 13
        10
        Mr. Kulikov used another way to pass for clever. I dug up on the network of fans to patent and score "scientific priority" on anything. These same Dunning and Kruger, which you see love to fill out folk proverbs in their "scientific work". There are many such decorating people in the West, they apparently manage to bite grants regularly.
        Having equipped his article with a “scientific term,” Mr. Kulikov began to settle accounts with some blogger. The only thing I did not understand was why someone's personal accounts turned out to be an article on VO? There is no analysis in it, reasoning at the high school level. The "argument" about the US lunar program is ridiculous. What is this all about?
    3. Mih1974
      Mih1974 15 January 2018 10: 47
      16
      What's the problem?
      Well, let’s do it “scientifically”: there is an American statement that “they were there”, there is a bad video and a bad photo, there is a kind of lunar soil.
      And now "why we do not believe": please note that the "non-believers" are not based on their Statements, but give other people's statements and facts. For example, I was "led astray" - an article (I don’t remember the author) that first filled up with formulas, but I was too lazy to check his calculations and it wasn’t mine to search for his distortion, but then he pointed to the "oddity" - until the first a successful flight to the moon and Merikas has either a start or an explosion or an accident. In general, accident wildly went wild, but then as a "miracle happened" and accident completely stopped. belay request He also showed by formulas that well, the lunar module did not have so much fuel with it that it would be enough! Xs, I didn’t check, but then I watched the movie "Allolon 13" especially the moment when they were turned off by the hands of the computer belay am HANDS Karl, corrected the course for entering the atmosphere, although it seems that according to the formulas, half a degree back and forth you either collapse with a stone or “bounce”. I won’t touch upon the “oddity” of photos and videos because I’m ready to try on the theory “they shot a complete gofno on the Moon, I had to shoot it on Earth for public relations”, this idea is more or less acceptable. But if it’s true that there was a phrase on the air from one of the ones who had been lulled after returning to the lunar module, they found a “puddle of leaking water” belay . On the Moon, in the airless space, LIQUID water? !!! Excuse me, how can this be?
      It’s out of such small “inconsistencies that“ do not believe ”is constantly being formed, because neither you nor I were there and could not see. The words of NASA that they“ lost the whole photo card ”or lost the ability to fly to the Moon again were very funny and you need to redesign as if they were not there belay fool . Forgive HOW, if the Mask was “presented” with a dviglo from the lunar module, SpaceXy would give birth to his office !!! fool Yes, after decommissioning wildly emergency shuttles, the Americans are essentially "tied to the ground" lol . Even China and those can themselves fly into orbit, and Merikasy only on ours tongue .
      And after that, you can believe in any theory, and even that the mericases are epic p ... ugh, you are Vruny, the whole World has been convinced more than once (remember the test tube of Powell, "Russia that attacked Georgia," etc.).
  2. Dalailama
    Dalailama 15 January 2018 06: 28
    +6
    There are no discoverers there, just the Germans cut the sturgeon when they were unable to repeat the rifle under the rifle. With a reduced caliber, a blogger may already be right. The right-hand side of the free world is called FN-FAL.
    Is the author of the space program an expert himself or is he longing there too? There were in general, but not everything is so rosy "Capricorn-1" there is such a movie.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 06: 42
      +7
      Quote: DalaiLama
      Is the author of the space program an expert himself or is he longing there too?

      we say: "by quiet sadness ..." laughing
    2. Dooplet11
      Dooplet11 15 January 2018 18: 13
      +2
      Is the author of the space program an expert himself or is he longing there too? There were in general, but not everything is so rosy "Capricorn-1" there is such a movie.

      And you? Do you have any opinion on cosmonautics according to Capricorn-1? Expert! laughing
      1. Dalailama
        Dalailama 16 January 2018 00: 42
        +1
        Why didn’t the Americans send a trial Apollo to the moon without astronauts in the automatic mode as was the case in this movie?
        1. Dooplet11
          Dooplet11 16 January 2018 05: 19
          +1
          See Time for the First. Great movie, by the way. Then ask why Leonov went into space? Why fly at all? A suicide?
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 17 January 2018 04: 19
            +1
            Do you have a judgment on astronautics on it?
            A direct question was asked:
            Why didn’t the Americans send a trial Apollo to the moon without astronauts in the automatic mode as was the case in this movie?

            where is the answer to it?
            Like the other two which were lower.
            1. Dooplet11
              Dooplet11 19 January 2018 10: 38
              0
              where is the answer to it?
              The answer is "first level", without formulas, terms and calculations here:
              https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Аполлон_(космическа
              i_program)

              If you are interested in the deep essence of the interconnections of facts, go further on the links, if this is not enough, learn terms, formulas, make calculations. The nut of knowledge is hard ...
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 20 January 2018 22: 01
                0
                I’ll clarify the question, since with such a delay we found something to “answer”:
                Why did the Americans not immediately send a trial Apollo to the moon without astronauts in automatic mode, as was the case in this movie?

                25 test runs BEFORE THIS were not needed.
  3. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 15 January 2018 06: 29
    16
    Will Americans risk fraud ??? belay
    Know the author, the current realities of American politics are not an argument request
    But the Powell test tube, the accusations of the “necessary” leaders for all sins do not confirm the true deceit of the American elites?
    But the economic preferences of the USSR and a number of trade deals that happened at the right time could not shut up the mouth of the Soviet elites? Could. The mass of staged photographs can not make you doubt the soy? They can. So why should everyone believe in the landing on the moon, if there is a lot of information and facts indicating the opposite?
    As long as there are questions without firm convincing answers, there will be doubts request
    And the opinion of the author, this is only the opinion of the author ... Like mine, like many others. The truth is, where the conclusions will correspond not only to logical chains, but also to common sense. The author of these conclusions regarding his opinion did not bring, therefore, personally I do not agree with him on matters of landing on the moon. hi
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 06: 43
      +2
      Quote: Rurikovich
      I personally do not agree with him on matters of landing on the moon.

      then you are not competent! laughing hi afftor-burns ...
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 15 January 2018 06: 52
        13
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        then you are not competent!

        It turns out what ... According to the author request
        The author will describe in detail the way how two super-astronauts made a two-week flight to Gemini, but only as evidence they will not get out of the Oka for two weeks, poop and write in diapers (do not ventilate the chur for the purity of the experiment lol )
        So let’s see if everything is really so, as described by the “honest” and Americans incapable of lying wink
        drinks hi
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 06: 55
          +3
          Quote: Rurikovich
          within two weeks will not crawl out of the “Oka”, poop and write in diapers

          as they say on one well-known site: "for the threshing floor, always" greens "... laughing drinks
        2. your1970
          your1970 15 January 2018 10: 46
          +3
          cases of prolonged confinement are described many times in documentary literature (prisons, punishment cells, medieval cells for special prisoners, etc.). About feces there ...
          Modern single-seat pilots have a special branch in overalls for small needs (for sufficiently short flight times).
          So technically it is not difficult to make a challenge for large / small needs. Everything is easier with comfort - they have endured and will continue to endure (including for this they were awarded).

          Z.Y. he himself had the imprudence to get into the "bus" during urgent use on his lip (standing place 60x60cm) for a day .... belay repeat repented of self-propelled running around at night ...
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 15 January 2018 11: 19
            +5
            In fact, this challenge, due to weightlessness, is not just difficult, but monstrously difficult. In fact, until the Americans stole the technology from us, they did not have it. If you are interested, then in the themes of the "moon ... of this-that" everyone disassemble in detail. Read, this is pretty entertaining.
          2. KERMET
            KERMET 15 January 2018 12: 18
            +3
            The whole point in a person’s state after such tests, a vigorous American gait after this does not smell
          3. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 15 January 2018 18: 20
            +3
            Quote: your1970
            So technically challenging for large / small needs is easy.

            Quote: your1970
            he himself had the negligence during urgency on his lip to get into the "bus" (standing place 60x60cm) for a day ....

            TWO WEEKS, Carl, two weeks! wink
            About a day or two - I do not argue ... But two weeks fool
            1. your1970
              your1970 15 January 2018 19: 28
              +3
              the answer is banal, we just didn’t give GSS, and in the states they also didn’t just fly

              And about the inconvenience, it was exactly at the same time that Pol Pot practiced in prisons chained hands to feet with the help of special shackles (as far as I remember in one of their prisons they had been in this position for more than a year).
              Guinplen (a man grown in a jug) is generally a commonplace for medieval Europe.
              And bed patients - which for decades can't get up?
              1. CT-55_11-9009
                CT-55_11-9009 16 January 2018 08: 48
                +2
                Quote: your1970
                And bedridden patients - who cannot stand up for decades?

                So ask the nurse in hospitals how such patients walk according to their needs. They, in fact, are nurses (or nurses) substitute the duck, and then they take it out. What, did American astronauts have in their capsule nurse?
                Until the mid-70s (if not until the beginning of the 80s), American astronauts walked in a little in, literally, a bag with a tube worn on the inflicted, and in a large way - generally in a plastic bag pressed to the ass. And, according to the recollections of the astronauts themselves, cases of flying pieces of shit that did not fall into the package were not uncommon and familiar. And only somewhere around the beginning of the Space Shuttle program did they acquire their “space toilets”, from which they precipitated when they visited our “Union”. Something like this.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 16 January 2018 20: 54
                  0
                  are you arguing now that a person cannot be cared for 2 weeks? Maybe it’s quite easy .. Ask the nurses how the patients live at home — who, for example, are relatives who drink, who can give food / medicine to forget, they may not have to ask a question about washing ...

                  And in this matter
                  Quote: CT-55_11-9009
                  cases of flying pieces of shit that did not fall into the package were not uncommon and habitual.
                  - Well, yes - head over heels in the product - but with a bunch of bucks (and what else they had in the USA for heroes who conquered space).
                  People for much lesser good work with this and nothing ...

                  Oh about coprofiles belay generally silent
        3. Mih1974
          Mih1974 15 January 2018 10: 59
          +8
          By the way a very good question that most bypasses !!! Only the “eternally drunk Russians on rusty rockets” had a toilet !!, and these realgos - shit for themselves in the diaper TWO WEEKS, even if they changed them (a separate topic, how and where to put it), all the same - it’s very “unpleasant” smelling moment tongue tongue laughing
          1. max702
            max702 15 January 2018 15: 57
            +3
            There, besides the toilet, there is another question on nutrition, read what astronauts ate before the flights and during them .. With such a diet, they would have dirtied their module in two weeks so that there can be no question of any performance ..
        4. CONTROL
          CONTROL 15 January 2018 13: 48
          +1
          Quote: Rurikovich
          within two weeks it will not crawl out of the Oka, poop and write in diapers (do not ventilate the chur for the purity of the experiment

          ....DO NOT!!!!!!!!
          --------------------------------------
          (I went to Kazakhstan at the “okushka” - just two weeks ....)
          1. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 15 January 2018 18: 22
            +3
            Quote: CONTROL
            .DO NOT!!!!!!!!
            --------------------------------------
            (I went to Kazakhstan at the "okushka" - just two weeks ....

            So you warm up, climbed out, walked through the bushes and toilets for the most part (and in small ways). And here for yourself! Actually not washing !!
            But no - they try to convince me that it was so request
            1. CONTROL
              CONTROL 16 January 2018 10: 55
              +2
              Quote: Rurikovich
              Quote: CONTROL
              .DO NOT!!!!!!!!
              --------------------------------------
              (I went to Kazakhstan at the "okushka" - just two weeks ....

              So you warm up, climbed out, walked through the bushes and toilets for the most part (and in small ways). And here for yourself! Actually not washing !!
              But no - they try to convince me that it was so request

              Yes ... "Oka" - she is so ... so ... special!
              I wonder if "actually not washing ..."to rot before: priest or driver's seat? ... And do not take off - a question of global significance !!! well, at least - painful ...
        5. Dooplet11
          Dooplet11 19 January 2018 10: 42
          0
          Just try to provide the subject with special nutrition similar to the Gemini menu. And take experiments and tests so as not to get bored. I think everything will work out, the experiment will be relatively successful.
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 20 January 2018 22: 03
            0
            The problem there was not with food, but quite the opposite, that’s why for a week only one astronaut was sent to Gemini, and he didn’t get bored there, they would be completely bored together.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 15 January 2018 09: 37
      +3
      Man, no “necessary trade deals” are a scientific argument.
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 15 January 2018 18: 44
        +5
        Quote: EvilLion
        no “necessary trade deals” are a scientific argument.

        They have argued on this topic more than once - tell us better about the F-1, about the weight it displays, about how to masterfully get into the right degree for landing, and how to get to the exact point 1 km from the rescue aircraft carrier. And about statistics (and she, as they say to me, is a stubborn thing)

        don't tell me yes This is by 1968
        In the USSR, experience was achieved in quantity and quality, and the brave exclusive nation immediately took and flew laughing
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 21 January 2018 15: 38
          0
          Quote: Rurikovich
          In the USSR, experience was achieved in quantity and quality, and the brave exclusive nation immediately took and flew laughing

          This experience was constantly transmitted by the Khrushchev and its aftermaths as exceptional, just as later, with humpback, all the amers were leaked to the ISS, and everything else. The aircraft carrier podgreb to the place of the fall that he was considered.
    3. Alex_59
      Alex_59 15 January 2018 10: 27
      +7
      Quote: Rurikovich
      As long as there are questions without firm convincing answers, there will be doubts

      The problem is that the scientific community is very distant from ordinary people. And in the scientific community, doubts about the reality of American flights to the moon have never existed.
      1. The US program was monitored extremely carefully. Any jamb of the USSR would definitely be used to oppose the United States.
      2. The presence of staged shots does not cast doubt on the truth of the event and the flight. For example, the famous "let's go" from Gagarin was shot in the studio. Gagarin did not fly?
      3. The success of the Americans with the lunar program was of great interest to the scientific and technical sphere of the USSR. Therefore, quietly, without noise and dust in the USSR, in 1973 a book was published with a signature stamp for official use, which is a collection of all available technical information on the Apollo program. It was not accessible to a wide circle of people, but was intended for scientific and engineering specialists. Yes, and it is not interesting to anyone, because it is a "technical porn" - a completely boring description of hardware and work algorithms. But in the 21 century, thanks to these your Internet, the book became available and everyone can read it cover to cover (if you do not fall asleep from boredom): https://www.e-reading.club/book.php?book=66469
      Was there any point in publishing such a detailed book, and even keeping it secret and handing it out piece by piece to the libraries to the highest epaulettes and PO Box, if all this is a bluff?
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 15 January 2018 11: 35
        +8
        The chipboard neck is sometimes placed on such brochures that it was ridiculous to read. By the way, at the military department of my university lay a whole mountain of such materials, marked with chipboard. This waste paper did not have any secrecy, the stamp only meant that the materials were not intended for mass printing, but for profile familiarization.
        Scientific and engineering specialists who worked in the USSR on space topics were disciplined people. They told them - “the Americans were flying!”, Then they were flying. Materials on successful flights, or on unsuccessful, former or former, are all working materials. What our intelligence "along the moon" got, it was distributed among those who needed it.
        If the "highest shoulder straps" suddenly started for some reason to read all the materials of the particleboard, then they would have to pee and get off if there wasn’t time, but anyway, if they drowned in waste paper and died.
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 15 January 2018 13: 13
          +7
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Scientific and engineering specialists who worked in the USSR on space topics were disciplined people. They told them - “the Americans were flying!”, Then they were flying.

          Yes, I understand sheep are obedient. They were told Gagarin flew, then flew.
          It's funny when, in order to justify one's own misconceptions, one has to designate the entire leadership of the USA, the USSR, and the scientific personnel of the USSR as idiots. If everyone is so bad, then maybe Gagarin didn’t fly, but ours gave the Americans money? Or not, no, that you, it’s ours, and that insidious Americans - ours couldn’t, in any case!
          And most importantly for what ??? What changes the fact that the Americans were on the moon? Well, there were and were. Why is it so painful for us. I don’t care at all - they were okay. From the fact that they were there, I will not be less loving Motherland. We were the first in space, they are the first on the moon. Normal situation.
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 15 January 2018 13: 32
            +5
            Quote: Alex_59
            It's funny when, in order to justify one’s own misconceptions, one has to designate the entire leadership of the USA, the USSR, and the scientific personnel of the USSR as idiots

            It’s funny to ascribe something to a person, and then “refute” it. The leadership of the countries was very intelligent then. And they concluded among themselves many mutually beneficial transactions. Moreover, the leadership of both one and the other powers always kept someone for idiots. Namely, their own peoples. And not without reason.
            The unpleasant thing is not that someone was on the moon, but just that no one was yet. I am an engineer, this nonsense is seriously unpleasant for me. Let anyone, even the Chinese, even the Samoans, but that it was real.
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 15 January 2018 14: 13
              +2
              Quote: Mikhail3
              I am an engineer, this nonsense is seriously unpleasant for me.

              Oh my god, colleague! Well, so what are you an engineer, do not use special literature? I have already posted in three places a link to the work of Shuneiko 1973 of the year. Maybe you should first familiarize yourself with all the publications on the topic, and then resort to the terms "nonsense"? Is this not an engineering approach to business?
              Quote: Mikhail3
              And they concluded among themselves many mutually beneficial transactions.

              Mutually beneficial, maybe. I do not see what is the benefit, and even mutual in the scheme "the USSR is silent, the USA is shouting." What did the USSR get such that it would not have received by other means while maintaining the existing order of things, without a default deal of compromising evidence with the moon? Why did the US have to make some concessions to the USSR when it was possible to make a Poker-face and ignore the possible noise with allegations of falsification of the flight, and stay with money and in the status of "first on the moon"? And the deal mechanism is not clear to me. How will the US control the destruction of incriminating evidence? Will observers be assigned to the KGB archives? How does the USSR guarantee that at the next general secretary, for example, they still will not be made public? I give a tooth, a darago - so chtoli?
              1. Julio Jurenito
                Julio Jurenito 16 January 2018 09: 18
                +4
                The USSR received a detente, the Helsinki Accords, the SALT-1 treaty, including the ABM Treaty, the chemical industry ("factories in exchange for products") - in fact, a respite in the arms race for about 10 years.

                And by the way, if astronauts really were on the moon, why don't they restore the Saturn-5 LV technology instead of purchasing Russian engines?
              2. Mikhail3
                Mikhail3 16 January 2018 11: 34
                +3
                I use literature. It's just that the topic is heavily trampled, and the reluctance to stir it up again. By and large, I did not need to get involved, but the arguments of that ... really. I just advise you to look at the topic with an open mind, for yourself. Does it seem to you working? Yes, imagine at least that Korolev quits a couple of months before the first start. How do you like the situation? Korolev slammed the door ... and the rocket left like a clock. Etc. etc.
                What the USSR received is listed repeatedly. Including absolutely fantastic grain contracts, which in no other way were absolutely impossible to get. There is data about this too, everything can be found if desired.
                Well, why? Yes, then, that the non-recognition of the USSR would require the reinforcement of the American version. I would have to confirm my presence on the moon, and this from a bomb station would be difficult, given the possibility of launching special tracking satellites from the USSR. With wide international access to all the data collected from them, why not? Society in those years was radically smarter than it is now ...
                1. Alex_59
                  Alex_59 16 January 2018 11: 51
                  0
                  Quote: Mikhail3
                  Including absolutely fantastic grain contracts, which in no other way were absolutely impossible to get.

                  In 1963, the completely unreal became reality. Even before the moon. How? The USSR stupidly gave gold. And bought everything that was required. So the food crisis was resolved in the USSR1963-64.
                  Quote: Mikhail3
                  I just advise you to look at the topic with an open mind, for yourself.

                  This is exactly what I did, a long time ago, a long time ago. And he came to the conclusion that they were flying.
                  Okay, figs with him. The topic has been exhausted, everyone remained with their own)))) Have a nice day! hi
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 16 January 2018 12: 07
                    +1
                    Quote: Alex_59
                    The USSR stupidly gave gold. And bought everything that was required. So the food crisis was resolved in the USSR1963-64.

                    Nonsense. Khrushchev collapsed the ruble more than twice, and the people became impoverished. From there, the execution in Novocherkassk. IMHO.
            2. alexhol
              alexhol 15 January 2018 19: 32
              -2
              By the way, it’s not just that the Americans lost in the final of the Munich Olympics !?
        2. your1970
          your1970 15 January 2018 14: 35
          +2
          Quote: Mikhail3
          They told them - “the Americans were flying!”, Then they were flying.
          "Who said? Why did he say? To all Soviet science at once? And did everyone believe it?"
          And when ours launched the satellite: who told the Americans-what did we fly? Yes, so that they immediately believed ALL?
          "Believe, I do not believe" in science does not particularly channel
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 16 January 2018 11: 39
            +1
            What is "all science"? What are you talking about? The space specialists were given materials and explanations on the subject, using structures that had already looked after them for work. Civilian scientists, too, who needed it. There were quite a few of them, because everyone who had access to equipment with which at least something could be checked was somehow on the mode. That's all.
            You just can’t imagine what the USSR is. I studied at the institute, and on the first floor of the central building the first department was located. In room 101. And the local workers received their paycheck for good reason ...
            1. your1970
              your1970 17 January 2018 12: 25
              0
              1)
              Quote: Mikhail3
              You just can’t imagine what the USSR is.
              - second(!!!!) I was issued an admission form after finishing the second year of a topographical technical school in 1988
              and in the same 1988, I (a conscript soldier !!!) went to the headquarters of the division with the magazine of the duty officer on the regiment - where I copied (from the division magazine) the flight time (to the minute!), the name of the satellite and the type of reconnaissance - which led this satellite over the glorious city of Kushka ....
              Both magazines were classified as "Secret"
              Throw it away! A demon cloud of information has been secreted meaningless, so that the employees of the first department do not swell from hunger, but everyone who is entitled to receive allowances
              When a rocket was launched from Baikonur, it was visible in our Saratov Region. And by the way, when the launch was unsuccessful - always (!) A very beautiful greenish glow appeared in the sky. And everyone knew (without any tolerances / vultures !!) - it fell. .
              2)
              Quote: Mikhail3
              Civilian scientists, too, who needed it. There were quite a few of them, because everyone who had access to equipment with which at least something could be checked was somehow on the mode.
              - Who forbade all these "few" in the 90s and later to write revealing articles? KGB? CPSU?
              Yes, such an article (especially with documentary confirmation!) ANY (!!) media will publish immediately a sensation ...
              No, the old "few" are silent
      2. meandr51
        meandr51 15 January 2018 14: 46
        0
        Of course. To maintain the official version. However, who can now prove that the book is not written now? By the way, no one doubts the existence of the Apollo program. But in that. that she was successful ...
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 15 January 2018 15: 16
          +2
          Quote: meandr51
          However, who can now prove that the book is not written now?

          Yes, and no one saw space, right?
          Quote: meandr51
          By the way, no one doubts the existence of the Apollo program. But in that. that she was successful ...

          Few doubts about the preparation of Gagarin’s flight. But was there a flight? There is no evidence, right? Have you seen him take off and land? Not! So that!
          Oh, we have funny trolls! That's why we love! )))
        2. Normal ok
          Normal ok 15 January 2018 23: 43
          0
          Quote: meandr51
          Of course. To maintain the official version. However, who can now prove that the book is not written now?

          I’ll tell you more, faithful people say that the earth is not round! It is flat on three elephants and elephants on turtles. And everything else is an international oligarchic conspiracy. All these cheap photos from space are drawn in Hollywood and on Mosfilm, but there is no space at all.
      3. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 15 January 2018 21: 20
        +4
        Quote: Alex_59
        The success of the Americans with the lunar program was of great interest to the scientific and technical sphere of the USSR. Therefore, quietly, without noise and dust in the USSR, in 1973 a book was published with a signature stamp for official use, which is a collection of all available technical information on the Apollo program.

        S. M. Eremenko "Do not play the fool America"
        Quote: Alex_59
        And in the scientific community, doubts about the reality of American flights to the moon have never existed.

        N.V. Lebedev "From the Memoirs of a Rocketeer"
        Quote: Alex_59
        Any jamb of the USSR would definitely be used to oppose the United States.

        A.I. Popov "Lunar race: a competition of two systems or" sale of the "Moon to the Americans"
        All these articles are not the last resort, but they make you think. hi
  4. nivander
    nivander 15 January 2018 07: 48
    +1
    dispute of two bald men
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 08: 15
      0
      Quote: nivasander
      dispute of two bald men

      rather footless, because of the rope ...
  5. basmach
    basmach 15 January 2018 08: 02
    +3
    The author began for health, and finished for peace, applying this same theorem to himself in flight on the Moon of the Amers. In general, he confirmed his initial statement. The only thing I did not understand, and the article is about what. About cartridges, so it was possible and not so pathetic to write, but with great technical details .. Apparently, the article is for the sake of the article.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 08: 16
      +5
      Quote: basmach
      The only thing I did not understand, and the article is about what

      I explain: the author is smart, the rest dolbyotyatly ....
      1. novel66
        novel66 15 January 2018 10: 06
        +6
        and this is a very dangerous sign when it seems that you are one smart, and the rest are not
    2. NordUral
      NordUral 15 January 2018 10: 22
      +1
      It seemed to me that the article was due to the moon.
    3. bunta
      15 January 2018 10: 22
      11
      An article that incompetent persons cannot comprehend their incompetence. Their confidence in “knowledge” is based not on obvious cause-effect relationships and facts, but on egoism. They build their arguments and arguments according to demagogic principles. As a consequence of the use of demagoguery - the transition to banter as a method of expressing one’s thoughts. Well, psychologists have already determined exactly what is behind the banter - read the article. This is a litmus test, by which you can determine whether the author of the article understands the topic or simply amuses his vanity by putting on a clownish mask. The same goes for commentators. Smart but not agreeable
      will not comment in the style of the late Weller, with the transition to personality. He will first find at least two independent authoritative sources of information before entering into a discussion with the author.

      The Van Allen belt example is simply charming. The source of education is most likely some sort of a yellow MK type newspaper. The radiation belt is the protons and electrons trapped in the magnetosphere of the earth. Such particles are easily retained by ordinary window glass, unlike gamma radiation, which requires thick lead to brake. In order to accelerate the electrons to a dangerous value in the Van Allen belt, first of all, they need to be assembled into a thin bundle, and then further accelerated to energies several times higher than that which they possess. Yes, and still get into this harness with a rocket with astronauts. So in all its glory.

      Actually, this article was written for the Armament section. Therefore, for those who are not on the topic of issues of small arms ammunition, little is clear from the quotations I have given. It just so happened.

      The Americans on the Moon were used by me as an example and did not have the goal of convincing anyone. Life is not being treated. The proof I have given is necessary and sufficient. But how many trolls emerged that fit perfectly into the theory of DC.
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 10: 32
        +4
        Quote: bunta
        . The proof I have given is necessary and sufficient.
        laughing laughing laughing yeah, damn genius! laughing laughing laughing
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 11: 00
          +8
          maybe comment on the fact that the Americans took off to the moon without any preliminary preparation and tren. flying? that's just, they took and flew seven times ... no "squirrels and arrows", mannequins, etc. in total haste. Good luck? -Do not think .. tongueand yes, why does the "lunar program" start from scratch again? Stirlitz stole all the documents? lol
        2. alexhol
          alexhol 15 January 2018 19: 34
          -1
          Andrei Yurievich, write correctly. Then sarcasm will be more convincing.
      2. Mih1974
        Mih1974 15 January 2018 11: 04
        +6

        Tell this person about "window glass protects against electrons and protons" tongue
        This is the first and fortunately the only person on earth affected by Protons. repeat This walking epic_fail managed to substitute his head under the stream of accelerated protons in the accelerator belay fool . Talent can not be said, but fact is a fact (on the face) - this is what a small number of protons dispersed in the accelerator make with the human body.
        1. would
          would 15 January 2018 13: 50
          +4
          bunta writes

          In order to accelerate the electrons to a dangerous value in the Van Allen belt, first of all, they need to be assembled into a thin bundle, and then further accelerated to energies several times higher than that which they possess.


          You are trying to refute it by citing the example of overclocked protons. Write yourself

          managed to substitute his head under the stream overclocked protons in the accelerator


          Epic.
          1. bunta
            15 January 2018 21: 10
            +4
            Quote: rait
            Epic

            Symptomatic.
            Quote: bunta
            So in all its glory.
            1. sabakina
              sabakina 15 January 2018 22: 39
              +3
              rebel, if you prove that two people in a cramped module can not defecate for weeks ... Second. Who shot Amstrong outside the module. if officially he was the FIRST man to enter the moon? In short, the wrong hangover leads to a long binge. Sorry.
              1. bunta
                15 January 2018 23: 33
                +4
                Quote: sabakina
                buntar

                My nickname comes from Ubuntu - one of the Linux distributions, unlike yours, whose origin is not in doubt.
                As for all the fecal boiling that is going on around the Moon, this is just a clear demonstration of the main meaning of the article about how incompetent people behave, due to innate or acquired selfish abilities not only not able to admit their incompetence in the matter under discussion, the ability to analytically approach him, but also complete reluctance and inability to improve himself. When it comes to dialogue, all their rhetoric boils down to trivial demagogy, when any logical argument is parried - "self." You, as you see, the sixteenth method of demagogy has not passed - "hangover, sympathy."
                There are normal logical answers to any argument in favor of non-stay of the Americans on the Moon, which are given here. I broadened my horizons a little along the belt of Van Allen to one comrade, I won’t talk about the rest. The article is not about the Moon in the end.
                I am not going to prove that two people cannot defecate for weeks, in a cramped module or in open space. Moreover, I did not state this. And how astronauts wrote and pooped in a confined space, if it is so interesting, you can easily find out. Read, experience the joy of discovering a new truth.
                1. sabakina
                  sabakina 15 January 2018 23: 36
                  +3
                  Quote: bunta
                  Quote: sabakina
                  buntar

                  My nickname comes from Ubuntu - one of distributions Linux,

                  I didn’t read further !!! laughing
                  And what do you dislike about the placental mammals of the order of the carnivorous canine family? wink What often torn pants?
                  1. bunta
                    15 January 2018 23: 42
                    +2
                    Quote: sabakina
                    I didn’t read further !!!

                    Merged girl Vyacheslav sabakina. I finished reading my dear, I finished reading my dear, there is nothing to cover, and so I didn’t read further. Boring, primitive.
                2. sabakina
                  sabakina 15 January 2018 23: 50
                  +2
                  Quote: bunta
                  I am not going to prove that two people cannot defecate for weeks, in a cramped module or in open space. Moreover, I did not state this. And how astronauts wrote and pooped in a confined space, if it is so interesting, you can easily find out.

                  I'm not going to prove either, just watch and enjoy.
                  1. Dooplet11
                    Dooplet11 16 January 2018 10: 30
                    0
                    Vicki: “Subsequently, the hypothesis is either proved by turning it into an established fact (see theorem, theory), or it is refuted (for example, by giving a counterexample), translating it into a category of false statements. An unproven and unrebutted hypothesis is called an open problem.”
                    It is impossible to draw an unambiguous conclusion from the transmission that the "hypothesis" has turned "into an established fact." Such a "clerk of the law of the clergy of production."
      3. spirit
        spirit 15 January 2018 18: 56
        +2
        Who do you argue with, these comrades two years ago rested that Mask 1 couldn’t put him down. That it’s a charlotte of pure water) that the space shuttle is omnipotent, and indeed the whole cosmonautics on von Braun kept wink
  6. Gardamir
    Gardamir 15 January 2018 09: 08
    +3
    It’s just some kind of stream of consciousness. What did the author want to say about philosophy or about bullets?
    1. novel66
      novel66 15 January 2018 10: 07
      +2
      uh about the moon? lol
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 15 January 2018 22: 40
        +2
        The moon is not relevant today. All to Mars! Novel hi .
        1. novel66
          novel66 16 January 2018 07: 36
          +1
          no, Vyacheslav !! the way to Mars, as stated, lies through the moon just. so it is necessary to deal already with Hollywood bullies and their henchmen my respect hi
  7. Alex_59
    Alex_59 15 January 2018 10: 02
    +7
    The author is bravo! Not in the eyebrow but in the eye. It is rarely possible to read a competent article in our time, not only from a technical and engineering point of view, but also literate.
    The Americans were on the moon. Fact.
    1. Net
      Net 15 January 2018 10: 12
      +3
      It remains only to see 400 kg of lunar soil, which the Americans "brought" from the moon
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 15 January 2018 10: 28
        +3
        https://www.e-reading.club/book.php?book=66469
        must reed only
      2. forty-eighth
        forty-eighth 15 January 2018 10: 39
        +1
        Contact the Russian Academy of Sciences
      3. Mih1974
        Mih1974 15 January 2018 11: 07
        +4
        Let them better show once again - HOW they manually guided their ship on the path to the ground (Appolon 13) !!!
        And then we remember our “MIR” in manual mode a little half of the station with a truck was not demolished to hell. And here for xs how many km and "by eye". negative
      4. sabakina
        sabakina 15 January 2018 22: 42
        +3
        Quote: Net
        It remains only to see 400 kg of lunar soil, which the Americans "brought" from the moon

        They say. they stole it. What a shame ...
        1. Was mammoth
          Was mammoth 15 January 2018 23: 03
          +2
          Quote: sabakina
          They say. they stole it. What a shame ...

          Unlucky people. Either they will grind the soil, then they will slip the tube with the wrong powder, then the cabinet with the other tubes will drop ....
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 12: 24
      +4
      Quote: Alex_59
      The Americans were on the moon. Fact.

      good that at least one! there is a witness.
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 15 January 2018 13: 04
        +9
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        good that at least one! there is a witness.

        There are thousands of witnesses, and your irony, with all due respect to you, is not appropriate.
        Sorry, but flights were tracked by means of control of the USSR's outer space, everything was in full view, telemetry was written per second. All flight physics was tested back in the 60 years, no doubt arose. Based on the results obtained by reconnaissance and control tools, a report was released in which the flights were disassembled in detail: https://www.e-reading.club/book.php?book=66469
        1. meandr51
          meandr51 15 January 2018 14: 54
          +1
          What, and with cameras at landing were present? All that they could then was to see them in the orbit of the Earth. the rest is interception of negotiations. So the fact is still in doubt.
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 15 January 2018 15: 13
            +3
            Quote: meandr51
            What, and with cameras at landing were present?

            Like the Americans were not present with cameras at the start and landing of Gagarin. It turns out, in your words, "the fact of Gagarin’s flight is still in doubt."
        2. sabakina
          sabakina 15 January 2018 22: 45
          +3
          Quote: Alex_59
          Thousands of Witnesses

          Excuse me, witnesses of what?
  8. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 15 January 2018 10: 08
    +2
    The author says that when setting out your views you need to be polite and correct. But since the word "freedom" for many means "permissiveness", and the word "upbringing" on the Internet simply lost its meaning ..
    Misunderstanding and often rejection of the stated position happen.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 13: 00
      +2
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      But since the word "freedom" for many means "permissiveness", and the word "upbringing" on the Internet simply lost its meaning ..
      Misunderstanding and often rejection of the stated position happen.

      fundamental science, even at the bonfires of the Inquisition did not burn, what in your understanding is "misunderstanding and permissiveness"? is the earth flat? I don’t accept this? -Yes ... excuse me, the service in the Air Force "deprived me of faith", I saw "" the curvature of the horizon ", and the pilots did not hesitate to say that it is ROUND! and photometry too ...) laughing
      1. CONTROL
        CONTROL 15 January 2018 14: 02
        +4
        Quote: Andrew Y.
        is the earth flat? I don’t accept this? -Yes ... excuse me, the Air Force service "deprived me of faith", I saw "" the curvature of the horizon ", and the pilots did not hesitate to say that it is ROUND! and photometry too ...)

        And here I am - I see that FLAT!
        (since I work with geodetic instruments that give good resolution and accuracy within 1 - 3 km; and no "curvature of the earth's surface" does not "press" on the result!
        Nobody complains about the accuracy of measurements ... until you look beyond the horizon!)
        1. your1970
          your1970 15 January 2018 14: 41
          +1
          Quote: CONTROL
          (since I work with geodetic instruments that give good resolution and accuracy within 1 - 3 km; and no "curvature of the earth's surface" does not "press" on the result!
          Nobody complains about the accuracy of measurements ... until you look beyond the horizon!)
          -
          1) on polygonometry class 2 presses and is already very decent lol lol lol-I have seen that
          2)
          Quote: CONTROL
          accuracy within 1 - 3 km belay
          - it’s not even possible to wean out with a land surveying tape, unless by measuring with steps ....
          1. CONTROL
            CONTROL 15 January 2018 15: 24
            +1
            Quote: your1970
            2)
            Quote: CONTROL
            accuracy within 1 - 3 km belay
            - it’s not even possible to wean out with a land surveying tape, unless by measuring with steps ....

            these are the dimensions of the polygon or line (road)
      2. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 15 January 2018 17: 18
        0
        I saw "" the curvature of the horizon ", and the pilots did not hesitate to say that it is ROUND! and photometry too ...)

        First, you erase the saliva from the monitor and re-read what I wrote ..
        And now - once again, put your thoughts in order .. And consider what I wrote.
        And you will see .. And then perhaps you will understand what I wanted to say.
        But I wanted to say - I’ll repeat .. Be polite .. And politeness comes from respect.
        You do not know who I am. I do not know who you are.
        But I try, I try very hard, although it all becomes more complicated ..
        Be polite and well-mannered.
        Unlike commentators with a Russian or Soviet flag.
        And I vouch for my flag - we are very polite and correct.
        Who does not understand - it's time to retire.
      3. Normal ok
        Normal ok 15 January 2018 23: 49
        0
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        yes ... excuse me, the service in the Air Force "deprived me of faith", I saw "" the curvature of the horizon ",

        And who will believe you that they flew on an airplane? Publish a photo, - photoshop. Testimonies of colleagues - conspiracy laughing
  9. NordUral
    NordUral 15 January 2018 10: 15
    +7
    And with the Americans and the moon, everything is very simple

    Here is an example of Dunning-Kruger syndrome in action.
    I still have not decided for myself - I would fly to the moon (let's say they suggested ...) in a diaper. More for not, very dumb. In general, there are so many white spots and black holes in this dark epic that it is just right to doubt, and not be idioticly sure that they were there.
  10. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 15 January 2018 10: 15
    +4
    Dear Andrey! You have raised an important topic, but something tells me that you are disingenuous. The ability to doubt is one of the basic skills of a person as a rational being. It is clear that doubts about whether it snows on the street if you see it through the window are stupid in nature and say a lot about the intelligence of the observer. It is not for me to tell you that a lot of discoveries were made because people doubted, it was not in vain that the church so zealously fought against heresy. I all remember the phrase "and yet it spins." I am not an adherent of conspiracies and falsifications, including the flights of US astronauts to the moon, but I want to point out to you a flaw in your arguments about their presence there:
    And with the Americans and the Moon, everything is very simple. Tell me, will Americans take the risk of falsifying the landing on the moon, if by that time we had not only planted our vehicles on its surface at a given point, but had launched a lunar rover almost simultaneously with them? Could it be that the Russians, at the slightest suspicion of falsifying the landings by the Americans, would not have used their lunar rovers to disgrace them to the whole world?
    And the flaws here are this: despite the fact that the moon is small, it is still quite large relative to the lunar rovers, and the place of the landing of the Americans must still be found and a lunar rover there, which is quite difficult technologically. Further, it is one thing to send an automatic device to the moon and a completely different thing is a device with people and not just send, but also return it. Even now, the task is quite complicated. I repeat once again, I have no desire either to dispel the myth of the Americans visiting the moon, just as I have no desire to support this event. I just want to say that the arguments in the dispute should be valid and all calls to believe in a word should be excluded. Here we are not a church and we are not adherents of any sect and are absolutely not obliged to believe in a word.
    1. Mih1974
      Mih1974 15 January 2018 11: 16
      +6
      I read an interesting opinion of an adherent of the sect "there were no Americans on the moon" - and so he put forward the theory there that "well, the flight of Man will not crawl through the formulas, well, nothing. But the machine, as in the USSR, fits itself into the formula." (c) that is, the Americans could send machine guns there like us, but for Piara they could have a circus. After all, the USSR’s lunar rovers could not record the Americans themselves. Yes, and what does it mean to check, it’s not for you to “cross the neighboring street” you’re head then think it would be necessary to put a Soviet lunar rover near the American exact landing, and this is also a task. Yes, and the Americans probably pre-sold the agreement "each other does not sit on his head." A lunar rover is not for you to go along the trans-sky; it's nothing in the distance. That is, in fact, the USSR did not have the technical ability to refute the flight of Americans to the moon.
      The next real expedition with “sweeping” or “trampling.” That is, then there was the Leadership Race. As with Gagarin. And then look HOW Americans everywhere diligently hush up his primacy in astronautics and HOW they stick out their flight (if any) to the Moon !! Another 30-50 years and under pressure from the media, everyone will simply forget the true role of Gagarin and everyone will think - the Americans were the first in Space. sad negative
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 15 January 2018 22: 55
        +3
        Mih1974, so they are already writing at home that the first woman in space was not V. Tereshkova, but an American! Anchor them to the heights!
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 15 January 2018 12: 34
      +7
      Would the Russians, at the slightest suspicion of falsification by the Americans of the landing, not use their moon rovers to disgrace them all over the world?
      you can’t imagine how vile all politics can be, concessions, easily, forgery, easily ... you’re nobody, the set of molecules that will fall apart tomorrow, why do you need to explain the structure of world politics? you were there and now you are gone, and time dripping, flowing ... and those at the helm are drinking "erysipelas" or "clicks", not paying attention to your mental torment, just making their money ...
  11. Molot1979
    Molot1979 15 January 2018 11: 02
    +9
    The last argument seems clever and comprehensive only to the author. It’s not a question of "they will or will not." Of course they will. In those days, they were not so shy, and the need for a grand victory was huge. The only question is how to pay the Union for silence. As an option, do not interfere with laying a gas pipeline to Western Europe. Oil dollars and gas dollars in exchange for non-interference in the "lunar scam". Those dollars were measured in the hundreds of billions .... generously enough to shut up the Soviet partocrats? So, if the author gave comprehensive arguments for the fact that the Saturn engine was sensible enough to put the declared cargo into orbit, blow it to the moon and return it back, then yes, there would be evidence. Or he reasonably explained why the Americans, having created such a wonderful engine, are now flying on ours and are not able to reproduce the technology half a century ago.
    1. Mih1974
      Mih1974 15 January 2018 12: 28
      +8
      laughing Here is what you ask such "not democratic" questions? repeat Well, that’s how it happened, the Films archive - NASA lost belay fly on Russian missiles - but they "wanted" them lol . And in general, "you hto such a" that would doubt the most democratic missile of all democratic missiles? laughing
    2. your1970
      your1970 15 January 2018 14: 54
      +3
      Quote: Molot1979
      Of course they will. In those days, they were not so shy, and the need for a grand victory was huge. The only question is how to pay the Union for silence. As an option, do not interfere with laying a gas pipeline to Western Europe. Oil dollars and gas dollars in exchange for non-interference in the "lunar scam". Those dollars were measured in the hundreds of billions .... generously enough to shut up the Soviet partocrats?
      turn on the logic !!
      Even if this happened, they gave the bucks of the USSR. Who would prevent the USSR:
      1) constantly blackmail US presidents with the threat of publishing documented facts (with transactions, bills, signatures, etc.) of receiving BABLA / USSR benefits.
      2) it’s just stupidly to overwhelm ANY of the US presidents who didn’t like it by publishing it all. The party of the president who did this would never launder. And this is not a joke-hysteria against the backdrop of “Russians are coming !!” and right there to them BABLO billions. For any Amerov’s president, the competitors would gobble up in five minutes. The unhappy Watergate-in comparison with this-pah and grind ...
      3) where are the guarantees for the USA - that the USSR will not blackmail them?

      Z.Y. Ours for their relatively small Iran-Contras deal was kicked for almost 20 years, and then such an occasion would have been to take grandmothers and put them in the GLOBAL puddle of their main competitor on the planet and bawl their entire military-industrial complex at once (yes they don’t know how supposedly) ...
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 15 January 2018 16: 13
        +3
        Quote: your1970
        3) where are the guarantees for the USA - that the USSR will not blackmail them?

        This can generally be done beautifully. First, take the money (when registering the transaction, fix everything, document it). And then throw out the fact that they were not on the moon, and that the Communists were given a bribe for non-disclosure. Checkmate. Well? Does someone believe looking at the USA that they are so stupid to go for it? Okay, there weren’t “on the Moon” - you can just make a face-up, saying that what you wanted from the Communists — they didn’t fly to the Moon, now they snarl, they try to prove that the achievements of the free world are also fictitious. This would have been swallowed by the world community. But here is what they paid off from the Communists! This is the nail in the coffin lid. Not a single sober politician will go to such a deflection - this is actually surrender.
    3. Glory1974
      Glory1974 15 January 2018 15: 58
      0
      The last argument seems clever and comprehensive only to the author. It’s not a question of "they will or will not."

      As old Churchill said: “Desire does not matter. Opportunity matters.”
  12. krokus792
    krokus792 15 January 2018 13: 47
    +3
    He served at the Institute of Aviation and Space Medicine in Moscow, military unit 64688с in 1988-89gg. In the squad of testers. So there is one colonel of the Air Force medical service, with all responsibility said that the Americans did not go to the moon, and justified it. But all talk on this topic was officially banned.
    1. meandr51
      meandr51 15 January 2018 15: 01
      +7
      So it was. Those who worked on this subject also spoke to me about this. And that is forbidden, confirmed. And now it is forbidden at the official level. The Americans always lied and are lying now. They lied about the Moon, they lied about the Vietnam attack on their ships, they lied about the chemical weapons in Iraq and Syria, they lied about the falling towers, about the RF interference in the elections. They lied completely.
    2. Normal ok
      Normal ok 15 January 2018 23: 52
      +2
      Quote: krokus792
      He served at the Institute of Aviation and Space Medicine in Moscow, military unit 64688с in 1988-89gg. In the squad of testers. So there is one colonel of the Air Force medical service, with all responsibility said that the Americans did not go to the moon, and justified it. But all talk on this topic was officially banned.

      We know, we know, "everything is not so simple" wassat
  13. Rostislav
    Rostislav 15 January 2018 14: 37
    +3
    Tell me, will the Americans begin to risk falsifying the landing on the moon, if by that time we had not only planted our devices on its surface at a given point, but also launched a lunar rover almost simultaneously with them? Would the Russians, at the slightest suspicion of falsification by the Americans of the landing, not use their moon rovers to disgrace them all over the world?

    The article is generally correct, but with an argument about the landing on the moon, the author got excited.
    Politics is such a thing ... Instead of moral satisfaction from exposing the USSR, it could well have received serious concessions in various fields for silence. Such a development of events seems more realistic.
    And next to the "landing" I would put September 11th. What could burn there so that the steel structures melt and the building "folds" inside itself like a box? Kerosene is not able to give such a temperature.
    1. your1970
      your1970 15 January 2018 17: 16
      +3
      Quote: Rostislav
      so that the steel structures melt and the building "folds" inside itself like a box? Kerosene is not able to give such a temperature.
      - a thin tube rolled up from a newspaper + a source of fire (any, even burning chock) = a burnt steel rod with a diameter of 8 mm (I saw it myself alive)
      collectively called fevka and oxygen blast ...
      The tower was a grand fevka and dohren kerosene
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 15 January 2018 23: 02
        +4
        sv1970, a question. At what temperature does steel melt and what is the temperature of burning kerosene?
        Pysy. Obviously, the Boeings were flooded with kerosene in the cockpit. laughing
        In general, I advise you to watch from 35:00
        1. your1970
          your1970 16 January 2018 08: 47
          0
          the undeveloped fuel supply of the B-767 is at least 5 tons. I just can’t right now look for data on fuel residues at the time of the impact, but in any case it is at least 5 (or even 10) tons more.
          There is a lot of trouble, but theoretically such an explosion is quite possible
  14. John22
    John22 15 January 2018 15: 58
    +1
    1. On the topic of the author’s article: each forum participant (comments) expresses himself to the best of his understanding and knowledge of the topic if he finds their disagreement in the material from the author. The form of expression depends on many reasons. Everyone has their own details.
    2. On the creation of a cartridge mod. 43. It was created in the wake of the "Kurzpatron", according to the terms of reference, but with the condition of increasing the range of a direct shot by 100 m, compared to the first. Why is his initial energy higher - 1991 J., against 1468 J.
    3. Regarding the thick and short PP 43 7,92x33, the diameter of the bottom is 0,65 mm larger than our M 43.
  15. White53
    White53 15 January 2018 18: 03
    +3
    The "arguments" on the Moon in defense of the "amers" are simply murderous! There were no other activities for the lunar rover, just look for traces of the "merino", It would cost a lot of money, but they were counted before!
  16. antiexpert
    antiexpert 15 January 2018 18: 07
    +2
    The expedition of Jeff Bezos raised several fragments belonging to the Saturn 5 rocket from the ocean floor. One of the fragments was the upper part of the TNA nozzle. On this fragment according to the device declared by NASA F-1 engine there should be a block of pumps of kerosene and oxygen. However, the pump block on this fragment was not. In its place was a regular hollow pipe. Since there was no pump block on the fragment, the conclusion follows from this - the F-5 engines did not stand on the Saturn 1 rocket, and it flew using completely different engines
    1. Dooplet11
      Dooplet11 15 January 2018 19: 51
      +2
      I read your post. And I do not enter the meaning.
      TNA, - turbo-pumping unit. That is the same pump of kerosene and oxygen. Well, let him have a "top of the pipe." Which one? And what else can be the block of kerosene and oxygen pumps on the upper part of the nozzle of a turbo-pumping unit (kerosene and oxygen pump)? Did you misinterpret NASA’s statement, or was it (statement) missing?
      1. Dooplet11
        Dooplet11 15 January 2018 20: 01
        +4
        More questions. What is a “regular hollow pipe” and how does it differ from an unusual hollow pipe?
        On the Internet you can find the F-1 circuit. You won’t show where on it is this pipe, which was found at the bottom of the ocean, and if it is not from F-1, there was no pump block (TNA) on it, then how did you decide that this is the upper pipe of TNA, and it is from Saturn 5 ?
        Sometimes, before broadcasting nonsense, you need to understand it.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 16 January 2018 00: 45
          0
          What was the point of sculpting such large missiles in the USA and the USSR for ships of two or multi-module construction?
          Why was F-1 not used after Saturn-5?
          1. Dooplet11
            Dooplet11 16 January 2018 05: 30
            +1
            Because a rocket is an engine with tanks. For you: Saturn 5 - these are F-1 + tanks.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 17 January 2018 04: 15
              0
              For you for the second time:
              Why not use the F-1 with other "tanks"?
              Why were modules displayed together?
              1. Dooplet11
                Dooplet11 17 January 2018 12: 31
                +1
                Who are you by education? The question is not idle. You need to understand what terms and formulas you can communicate with.
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 17 January 2018 15: 33
                  +1
                  In terms indicated in the question above and in two questions here, none of which you have answered. Two of them were not even tried.
                  1. Dooplet11
                    Dooplet11 17 January 2018 19: 32
                    +1
                    It is difficult to answer your question in the terms indicated in the question. The terms and meaning that you put into them are not clear to me, the design engineer of DLA, especially in connection with my questions to Antiexpert. What does “sculpting large rockets” and “using F-1 after Saturn 5” have to do with this? To the "missing kerosene and oxygen pumps on the upper hollow nozzle TNA" (c)?
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 18 January 2018 17: 16
                      +1
                      It’s just hard for you to answer them (all three). And in normal technical terms, it’s completely impossible.
                      So, dear MAI graduate (in the second specialty), again:
                      Why didn't the Americans send a trial Apollo to the moon without astronauts in automatic mode?
                      What was the point of making such large missiles in the USA and the USSR for ships of two or multi-module construction?
                      Why was F-1 not used after Saturn-5?

                      Why, instead of using it and outputting almost twice as much, is RD-180 being bought in Russia now?
      2. Dalailama
        Dalailama 16 January 2018 00: 46
        0
        You are not able to distinguish between a hollow nozzle from a turbine unit and therefore have found someone else to pester?
        1. Dooplet11
          Dooplet11 16 January 2018 05: 37
          +1
          Will you show it to me? Then, with your help, I will be able to distinguish between the “hollow nozzle of a turbine unit”. Suddenly, among the ten nozzles of my car there is one, - OH! EMPTY TURBO UNIT TUBES! wassat
        2. Dooplet11
          Dooplet11 16 January 2018 05: 47
          0
          Wiki:
          "Pipe - a small section of pipe connected (rolled, riveted, welded) to the tank and other structures, used to connect pipelines and fittings to them in order to divert gas, steam or liquid through it. Depending on the type of connection adopted, the free end of the pipe they are equipped with a flange, thread or socket. A pipe is called a transition pipe when it has ends of different size and shape. A pipe also connects pipelines used to transport working fluids under the action of pressure differences. "
          Judging by the definition, the pipe cannot be hollow. Or hollow. This is a piece of pipe with flanges.
        3. Dooplet11
          Dooplet11 16 January 2018 09: 01
          +1
          You, as an Expert, who has studied cosmonautics on Capricorn-1, cannot enlighten me, where to distinguish this hollow pipe from a turbine unit ?:

          And where are the oxygen and kerosene pumps on this “upper TNA nozzle”?
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 17 January 2018 04: 17
            +1
            all these questions not to me but to the one to whom you stuck in this thread to the first (antiexpert), or to your car dealer,
            a turbine unit cannot be completely hollow.
            1. Dooplet11
              Dooplet11 17 January 2018 12: 35
              0
              It was you who stood up for hollow pipe. The antiexpert, apparently realized that he had posted nonsense, so he kept silent as a rational person. And you burn. You can. )))
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 17 January 2018 15: 31
                0
                You were answered about the pipe through the turbine unit.
                apparently he understood who stuck to it and why.
                1. Dooplet11
                  Dooplet11 17 January 2018 15: 55
                  0
                  laughing Did you answer that? About the "pipe through the turbine unit"? Yes, and about the "hollow pipe"? Who are you by education? If a biologist or a culinary specialist, then you are excusable.
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 17 January 2018 16: 19
                    +1
                    A turbine unit, unlike a branch pipe, cannot be hollow. So the second time you clearly explained?
                    Where are the answers to the questions?
                    Why didn't the Americans send a trial Apollo to the moon without astronauts in automatic mode?
                    What was the point of sculpting such large missiles in the USA and the USSR for ships of two or multi-module construction?
                    Why was F-1 not used after Saturn-5?

                    Or does the psychologist’s education not allow you? Did you end with Stanford or Yale?
                    1. Dooplet11
                      Dooplet11 17 January 2018 19: 14
                      0
                      "A turbine unit, unlike a branch pipe, cannot be hollow. So, for the second time, it was intelligibly explained to you?"
                      Explained "We, the Dalai Lama"? No, not intelligible. The Dalai Lama's knowledge of the topic is not enough for intelligible explanations.
                      The pipe may not be hollow or non-hollow. A pipe is a piece of pipe. A turbine unit cannot have an upper hollow pipe on which this turbine unit is not installed. This allows me to understand my education (MAI).
                      And what is your specialty that is so intelligibly explaining about hollow pipes? Show me on the F-1 diagram this ill-fated upper TNA pipe on which kerosene and oxygen pumps should be located, well, please!
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 18 January 2018 17: 18
                        +1
                        A turbine unit cannot be hollow. If it is hollow then this is just a pipe.
                        Where are the answers to the questions uncomfortable for you with the comments above? This or that my education should not be to you this obstacle.
    2. Dooplet11
      Dooplet11 16 January 2018 12: 02
      0
      Judging by the photo from the rise here: http: //zele.ru/novosti/kosmos/dvigateli-saturn-5
      -8067 /
      Then the remnants of F-1 lack the part shaded in red:

      That is, the entire TNA and part of the engine nozzle with the intake manifold of the exhaust turbine working fluid into the nozzle.
      Judging by this link: https: //www.osp.ru/news/2013/0322/13018088/
      NASA does not mind that this is F-1.
      But in general, everyone can conduct their own examination by comparing the photos of the raised elements with the photos of the whole F-1.
      By the way, information for consideration. Why did you need a “tragic series” with Apollo-13 in a grandiose “production show about enchanting flights to the moon”? To kick a housewife’s tear?
  17. Dmitry Plyasulya
    Dmitry Plyasulya 15 January 2018 20: 33
    +1
    “And with the Americans and the Moon, everything is very simple. Tell me, will the Americans risk taking the moon to the fake if we had not only planted their devices on its surface at a given point, but launched the moon rover almost simultaneously with them? , at the slightest suspicion of falsification by the Americans of the landing, wouldn’t they use their moon rovers to disgrace them all over the world? "

    For very self-confident - and if the Soviet leadership was aware and deliberately turned a blind eye (they bargained for the price of oil, and then Perestroika started to completely merge with the Western "elites")? Immediately after this, another “scientific proof” of the Omerik-Mamentsev’s presence on the Moon was blown away in an instant. This is if you do not go into a lot of technical issues - even their list already casts great doubt on the flight of Americans to the moon with the landing, etc.
    1. your1970
      your1970 16 January 2018 21: 06
      0
      Quote: Dmitry Plyasulya
      For very self-confident - and if the Soviet leadership was aware and deliberately turned a blind eye (they bargained for the price of oil, and then Perestroika started to completely merge with the Western "elites")?

      1) did you already forget that in the 90s it was very fashionable and profitable to expose the CPSU for all sins? And what was past such a political fort ("The USSR was waging a cold war with the USA, and at that time the Politburo covered the Americans !!!!!!! ") - would not a single self-respecting journalist pass?
      2) at that time Gorbachev with Perestroika !! he was still managing the combine, and oil and gas had not yet played such a role - for there were no gas pipelines to Europe even in the current volumes of supplies, oil was carried in cars in the old fashioned way ..
  18. Glory1974
    Glory1974 15 January 2018 21: 05
    +5
    I don’t know if the Americans were on the moon or not. But I want to find out why the moon is gray with the Americans, and with us the Chinese in the pictures are brown. Or where the Americans on the descent module housed the astronauts, and where is the lunar rover. If everything is clear with us in the USSR, then there are questions for the Americans. If I want to figure it out, do I suffer from the syndrome too?

    They assure us that the take-off stage was torn off from the landing stage and rushed off to a near-moon orbit! Judging by this video of very poor quality, the landing stage is what is indicated by a red ellipse in the left photo, and the take-off stage is what is indicated by a red ellipse in the right photo:
    American "moon scam" and new revelations!
    The question is, where are the tanks with tons of fuel? Where are the marching engines that were supposed to take the take-off stage to the lunar orbit ???

    Where in these photos is the cabin with the astronauts and where was the brought lunar rover?
    1. Dooplet11
      Dooplet11 16 January 2018 17: 14
      +2
      According to the Americans, the hole in the left picture on the right under the golden heat-wired. The cockpit with astronauts where shown in the right picture.
      Our Lunnik LK in the hangar 601 department MAI:
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 16 January 2018 20: 20
        +1
        According to the Americans, the hole in the left picture on the right under the golden heat-wired. The cockpit with astronauts where shown in the right picture.

        If there is a moonroot, then where are the engines and fuel supply for the landing platform?
        And if there is a cabin for astronauts, then where is the engine and fuel reserves for takeoff from the moon?
        In the photo that you show, at the bottom of the engine, it is visible. But there wouldn’t fit a lockhole there?
        1. Dooplet11
          Dooplet11 16 January 2018 22: 15
          +1
          The network has a lunar module in the context. Everything is there. The lockhole is folding.
  19. sabakina
    sabakina 15 January 2018 21: 25
    +7
    (For scientific evidence of Americans staying on the moon, see the end of the article.)

    And with the Americans and the Moon, everything is very simple. Tell me, will Americans take the risk of falsifying the landing on the moon, if by that time we had not only planted our vehicles on its surface at a given point, but had launched a lunar rover almost simultaneously with them? Could it be that the Russians, at the slightest suspicion of falsifying the landings by the Americans, would not have used their lunar rovers to disgrace them to the whole world?

    The author, four and a half lines, is there scientific evidence? belay am
  20. tolancop
    tolancop 15 January 2018 22: 48
    +3
    ".... For scientific evidence of the Americans' presence on the moon, see the end of the article.) ..."
    Promised SCIENTIFIC proof ...
    “... Americans will risk taking the moon to the fake if by then we had not only planted our devices on its surface at a given point, but also launched the lunar rover almost simultaneously with them? Are the Russians, at the slightest suspicion of falsification by the Americans of the landing wouldn’t use their moon rovers to disgrace them all over the world? ... "

    and issued an EMPTY TRAP !!! ....
  21. Curious
    Curious 15 January 2018 23: 42
    +2
    With regard to articles on the weapons-related topics of the VO site, the Dunning-Krueger effect is constantly manifested. In the heads of some authors of the site, the mental attitudes of the fact that they are directly called upon to write articles on weapons topics are densely rooted. As a result of this misconception, site readers regularly receive materials of completely useless quality, but in large quantities.
    By the way, I never thought that the site has so many experts in the field of space and interplanetary flights in particular. More than gunsmiths.
    1. dSK
      dSK 16 January 2018 01: 15
      +1
      In Russia, they developed an application for determining the authenticity of new banknotes. The Russian Goznak has created a special application for mobile phone, with the help of which it will be possible to verify the authenticity of banknotes of 200 and two thousand rubles. Such information was shared in the organization’s press service. It is reported that the application is called "Banknotes 2017". It will appear in the AppStore and GooglePlay services already Thursday, January 18th. In addition to determining the authenticity of banknotes, the mobile application will also tell the user about the form and features of the banknote. The banknote of 200 rubles depicts a monument to the scuttled ships in Sevastopol, as well as a view of the city of Kherson. The bill of two thousand rubles boasts an image of a bridge to Russky Island in Vladivostok, a view of the Vostochny Cosmodrome in the Amur Region. hi
    2. BMP-2
      BMP-2 16 January 2018 16: 02
      +2
      A large number of experts in the field of astronautics - this is not so bad! yes After all, our people were the first to conquer the Cosmos! I’ve never thought that there are so many experts on the Dunning-Krueger effect on the site who do not see the difference between the effect and the syndrome! laughing
  22. tracer
    tracer 16 January 2018 04: 23
    +5
    It was precisely today that I argued with one of these patients with this syndrome .. I tried to prove that the Mosin rifle I quote literally "the standard of accuracy." As a former shooter, an athlete is a rifleman who spoke in regional competitions, as a former sniper, to put it mildly, did not agree with this statement. But what could be the arguments for the opponent in terms of accuracy ... distances .... sights and optics .... It's all nonsense because "sit with her in a dirty trench" and find out then .... Maybe I was in the wrong trench where do they talk about it? Or was he not so dirty? The fact of the matter is that he "sat", and the mud kneaded no worse than others where it was necessary and when it was necessary. The argument ended in a predictably traditional message from my opponent in the distance of "Russian infinity." Because how to argue with people giving "advice on a cosmic scale and cosmic same stupidity" is simply wasting time.
    If I could put the article a hundred pluses ..
    1. bunta
      16 January 2018 11: 10
      +4
      Your dispute has begun, IMHO, because of a violation of the basic principle of any discussion - the meaning of the terms is not defined. There is an idea to make an article about this. What is a standard for me, a developer, engineer, production worker. This is an exemplary part or assembly by which workers and customers are checked in the manufacture of mass production. The standard is carefully made, measured, sometimes sealed, photographed. A tag is hung on it and a passport is issued. How to understand the "standard of accuracy". I do not understand. Drill holes in the target and hang a tag on it or what?
      1. Dooplet11
        Dooplet11 16 January 2018 12: 19
        +2
        About a general understanding of the meaning of terms for discussion, 100% is true.
        I got the impression that the opponent tracerbut in general, in one term, everything that I heard on the topic was put together, and he called this term the "standard of accuracy." In this case, it is required not to define the meaning of the terms, but to read the course from scratch. laughing
        1. tracer
          tracer 17 January 2018 03: 41
          +2
          I didn’t want to offend a person .... Well, you won’t tell him that his knowledge is not enough to judge on this topic. He is from a cohort of reenactors. Nice guys, but now I’ll call them "fetishists" ...
  23. Cynic
    Cynic 16 January 2018 11: 33
    +2
    Start for health, end for peace.
    Soft characteristic of this opus.
    I was always amazed at such materials, the desire to achieve something good, with unsuitable means!
    I will not touch on the essence of the issues discussed, but the verbal turns used are more than indicative, as if the author himself did not suffer from this psychological phenomenon ...
    For example, discussions about calibers, but is it nothing that nowadays krupnyak rolls into the eyes?
    Here, here, everything within the framework of fenohmen ...
    Oh-ho-stinkers, such energy, but for peaceful purposes.
  24. BMP-2
    BMP-2 16 January 2018 15: 46
    +3
    Actually, nothing surprising: when a layman in the field of psychology begins to write about the Dunning-Krueger effect, then he becomes a syndrome, and the sophism cited at the end of the article is "scientific" evidence of the Americans' presence on the moon. And this is not a banter! yes The effect lived, the effect is alive, the effect will live !!! laughing
  25. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 16 January 2018 17: 49
    +1
    A group of Russian engineers and space enthusiasts are planning to assemble one million rubles on the domestic crowdfunding platform Bumstarter and launch a satellite to the lunar orbit, which should answer the question that has been worrying the whole world for 45 for years: were there Americans on the moon? The task of the microsatellite, which should be built on the money raised, will include photographing on the surface of the moon traces of the presence of American astronauts.

    According to Egorov, the theoretical study and mathematical calculations of the main characteristics of the spacecraft will require even less than 1 million rubles.

    "We will try to create a satellite project of low mass and low cost so that it can be done by a non-state association of professional enthusiastic engineers who do not have a multi-billion dollar budget. We are launching with one of the lunar vehicles launched by Russia, India or China. This will allow us not to think about an expensive carrier rocket, which is needed for a completely independent launch, "said Egorov.

    https://ria.ru/space/20151001/1294413184.html
    Collected 1 749 696 rubles. Only two years have passed. We are waiting ... hi
    1. dSK
      dSK 18 January 2018 20: 11
      +2
      The landing step of the Falcon (just to the left of the center). On the right is the Lunar Rover. On the left is ALSEP. In the circle is a laser reflector. Traces on the surface are clearly visible. Photo taken by LRO spacecraft in April 2010.
  26. Indifferent
    Indifferent 17 January 2018 01: 32
    +3
    The author on himself and used Downing-Kruger syndrome. A low level of knowledge does not allow him to make the right conclusions. It would not hurt to know the theory of probability and failure statistics for the technology of that time. This is enough to conclude that the Americans could not be on the moon. After all, each flight had a certain probability of failure. Start, orbit, undocking, re-docking, flight to the moon, landing. Takeoff again docking, flight to Earth already without fuel, abandoned by a brick. With this overload at 40g and landing. So, taking into account all the probabilities of even one flight matters hundredths of a percent. And the probability of all accident-free flights in a row, billionths of a percent. I wanted to ask the author. Did he often win a billion in the lottery? But the Americans won many times in a row. This is simple math. There is no need to watch whether the flag wound or not. Cosmonauts pissed in a spacesuit or not. They withstood an overload of 40g or dummies did it for them. Probability theory says no. They did not fly to the moon.
    1. Romulus
      Romulus 17 January 2018 01: 57
      +1
      Quote: indifferent

      0
      Indifferent Today, 01:32 New
      The author on himself and used Downing-Kruger syndrome.

      You seem to have tried RenTV syndrome with Prokopenko ... do you think the land is flat? And does she stand on whales or turtles?
  27. Korax71
    Korax71 17 January 2018 11: 02
    0
    CONTROL,
    Well then, say that the damned British, in alliance with the Mohicans and the Indians of the Narraganset tribe, attacked. For some, some tribes fought with others with the help of whites, then vice versa. And it turns out that it’s interesting for you, all Indians are soft and fluffy. once you decided to touch on the topic, you immediately remember how the Russian state became. the methods were no different. how many Finno-Ugric peoples ceased to exist? someone assimilated, someone ousted from their lands, when they conquered Siberia they only carried the word of God? they didn’t deny and didn’t kill ??? what they did they do not deny. only Russia still covers the expansion of its territories with the friendship of peoples.
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 17 January 2018 15: 34
      +2
      They did not drive in the reservation, they did not deal with scalping.
      1. Korax71
        Korax71 18 January 2018 07: 19
        0
        If you look a bit into Native American culture, how the scalping from them went away. Yes, and the attitude to the war was a little different. Tribes fought without white all the time. Regarding reservations, they fully owned the rights of the state. Their originality I didn’t try to root out. The problem was not in them, but in the fact that many tribes led a nomadic life. They didn’t really claim the right to land and they sold it to colonists quite easily, but then other tribes came to their place and demanded again for land of money. I do not think that someone liked this racket.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 18 January 2018 17: 19
          +2
          What are you smoking?
  28. Dooplet11
    Dooplet11 18 January 2018 21: 56
    0
    Dalailama,
    DalaiLama Today, 17: 18 ↑
    A turbine unit cannot be hollow. If it is hollow then this is just a pipe.
    Did I say somewhere that TNA is hollow? You are raving.
    Where are the answers to the questions uncomfortable for you with the comments above? This or that my education should not be to you this obstacle.
    after such blunders from you:
    "The F-86 had a clean wing, that was its virtue.
    A clean wing is when without ridges, with the so-called other comrades, cool.
    There is a photo of the F-86 with both a comb and a slat.
    This is a vortex generator and not a comb. From the Saber it was better to aim, because the lantern is higher and the nose is more oblique. This is obvious from any photo. The F-86 had a clean wing, this was his dignity.
    A clean wing is when without ridges, with the so-called other comrades, cool.
    There is a photo of the F-86 with both a comb and a slat.
    This is a vortex generator and not a comb. From the Saber it was better to aim, because the lantern is higher and the nose is more oblique. This is obvious from any photo. The moving target drift mark goes down and to the side. goes down and to the side. ", and especially after" Moving target drift mark "Your education will be a huge obstacle to understanding the terms" specific impulse of fuel "," degree of expansion of the nozzle "," open TNA circuit, "stoichiometric ratio, which you will have to operate along with the formulas to answer your questions.
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 19 January 2018 03: 45
      0
      Pestering others, you asked the appropriate questions about the difference between a hollow pipe and a TNA.
      capable of distinguishing a vortex generator from a large proletarian aerodynamic ridge in a MiG-19 photo?
      Quote: Dooplet11
      "specific fuel impulse", "nozzle expansion ratio", "open TNA circuit", "stoichiometric ratio", which will have to be operated along with formulas to answer your questions.

      It is not necessary to operate with these terms to answer the questions above (formulas are also not needed here). Surely you just need to sit in a puddle flood topic. So:
      Why didn't the Americans send a trial Apollo to the moon without astronauts in automatic mode?
      What was the point of making such large missiles in the USA and the USSR for ships of two or multi-module construction?
      Why was F-1 not used after Saturn-5?
      Why, instead of using it and outputting almost twice as much, is RD-180 being bought in Russia now?

      Start with the first two, so it will be more difficult for you.
      1. Dooplet11
        Dooplet11 19 January 2018 09: 51
        0
        You pestering others asked the appropriate questions about the difference between the hollow pipe and the TNA.

        Where? I quote myself:
        TNA, - turbo-pumping unit. That is the same pump of kerosene and oxygen. Well, let him have a "top of the pipe." Which one? And what else can be the block of kerosene and oxygen pumps on the upper part of the nozzle of a turbo-pumping unit (kerosene and oxygen pump)? Have you misinterpreted "NASA's statement, or was there no (statement)? .. More questions. What is a" regular hollow pipe "and how does it differ from an unusual hollow pipe?
        On the Internet you can find the F-1 circuit. You won’t show where on it is this pipe, which was found at the bottom of the ocean, and if it is not from F-1, there was no pump block (TNA) on it, then how did you decide that this is the upper pipe of TNA, and it is from Saturn 5 ?
        You're lying! And not the first time.
        But you claimed that
        a turbine unit cannot be completely hollow.
        Can a turbine unit be "not entirely hollow"? Interesting!
        capable of distinguishing a vortex generator from a large proletarian aerodynamic ridge in a MiG-19 photo?

        I think that you will not be able, in the case when the "proletarian aerodynamic ridge MiG-19" becomes a vortex generator. I wonder if you can understand such a logical construction? :
        The vortex generator may not be an aerodynamic ridge. The aerodynamic ridge can be a vortex generator.
        It is not necessary to operate with these terms to answer the questions above (formulas are also not needed here). Surely you just need to sit in a puddle flood topic. So:
        Why didn't the Americans send a trial Apollo to the moon without astronauts in automatic mode?
        What was the point of making such large missiles in the USA and the USSR for ships of two or multi-module construction?
        Why was F-1 not used after Saturn-5?
        Why, instead of using it and outputting almost twice as much, is RD-180 being bought in Russia now?
        Start with the first two, so it will be more difficult for you.

        Good. Let's try without special terms and formulas. I love the difficulties. So:
        1. NASA decided that previous Apollo 11 25 test launches under the Apollo program are enough to test the system. (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollon_(Space
        i_program)) We decided and started right away with the crew. You should ask NASA to justify this decision. They will answer with terms and formulas.
        2. "What was the point of making such large missiles in the USA and the USSR for ships of two or multi-module construction?" - based on the estimated flight path and payload weight. Justifications, theory and formulas can be found here: "Collection (ed. G.G. Gakhun)
        Design and engineering of liquid rocket engines
        1989 r "Head of the MAI Department, Dean of the 2-th faculty Professor G.G. Gakhun taught me this course.
        3. “Why F-1 was not used after Saturn-5” - because the Apollo program was closed, and the Space Shuttle program involved the use of reusable engines with a different thrust, on other components and a different control circuit. Justifications, theory and formulas in the source indicated in the answer (2).
        4. "Why, instead of using it and outputting almost twice as much, is RD-180 now bought in Russia?" - Check with NASA, but I think because:
        a) So far, they have nothing to print “almost twice as much”.
        b) RD-180 satisfies them in terms of specific parameters, total thrust of the remote control and economic indicators.
        I hope you understand the answers. If not, then you have to go to special terms and formulas. For my understanding of which formulas to begin to answer you with — from arithmetic, from Newton’s laws, or Navier-Stokes equations, you have to answer me the question, what kind of education do you have:
        1. Gymnasium school.
        2. Technical University.
        3. Humanitarian University.
        4. Elementary School.
        Just put a number in the answer. After all, even for (4) it is not difficult! And begin to deal with your questions "from the stove." hi
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 20 January 2018 22: 14
          0
          These were all your words.
          Quote: Dooplet11
          What is a “regular hollow pipe” and how does it differ from an unusual hollow pipe?

          what was the question? Except for not continuing to relay nonsense here:
          Quote: Dooplet11
          Branch pipe cannot be hollow or not hollow. A pipe is a piece of pipe.

          so a piece of pipe can still be hollow? But a turbine unit cannot be hollow?
          Do you consider the large proletarian aerodynamic ridge on the MiG-19 a vortex generator?

          Quote: Dooplet11
          1. NASA decided that previous Apollo 11 25 test launches under the Apollo program are enough to test the system. (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollon_(Space
          i_program)) We decided and started right away with the crew. You should ask NASA to justify this decision. They will answer with terms and formulas.

          Not NASA was asked, you. Actually, the fact that 25 test launches were not needed, it was possible to do only 1-2 crewless ones to check the reliability of the entire system.
          Quote: Dooplet11
          2. "What was the point of making such large missiles in the USA and the USSR for ships of two or multi-module construction?" - based on the estimated flight path and payload weight. Justifications, theory and formulas can be found here: "Collection (ed. G.G. Gakhun)
          Design and engineering of liquid rocket engines
          1989 r "Head of the MAI Department, Dean of the 2-th faculty Professor G.G. Gakhun taught me this course.

          The calculated trajectory has nothing to do with it. There is no point in jointly launching overlapping modules with a single launch, for which such launch vehicles were needed.

          Quote: Dooplet11
          3. “Why F-1 was not used after Saturn-5” - because the Apollo program was closed, and the Space Shuttle program involved the use of reusable engines with a different thrust, on other components and a different control circuit. Justifications, theory and formulas in the source indicated in the answer (2).

          Apollo program closed, so what? In addition to the shuttles, all sorts of disposable Atlases and Delta Heavy flew. The latter on 3 expensive engines displays exactly one fifth of the payload of Saturn-5.
          Quote: Dooplet11
          4. "Why, instead of using it and outputting almost twice as much, is RD-180 now bought in Russia?" - Check with NASA, but I think because:
          a) So far, they have nothing to print “almost twice as much”.
          b) RD-180 satisfies them in terms of specific parameters, total thrust of the remote control and economic indicators.

          a) because these LVs and shuttles with several engines displayed one and a half times more than Atlas-5,
          b) is not suitable because they simply don’t have an alternative to the RD-180 engine,
          Conclusion - c) something was wrong with this F-1.
          Quote: Dooplet11
          I hope you understand the answers.

          I hope you and everyone understand that there were no answers from you on Saturn Apollo and F-1. Unless you consider the answers "from the bulldozer" and referring to NASA to a non-core textbook on such simple things as such.
          Deal with your Pepsi Light with chips and popcorn.
          1. Dooplet11
            Dooplet11 22 January 2018 08: 55
            0
            1,2,3 or 4? I guess 1. So?
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 22 January 2018 10: 08
              0
              For all 4, you had 0. Does the syndrome still deliver to you?
              1. Dooplet11
                Dooplet11 22 January 2018 14: 01
                0
                Thank you for the honest answer. He speaks more of a direct and honest answer. laughing
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 22 January 2018 14: 20
                  0
                  On the answers to the questions you did not answer correctly, what comments will be?
                  1. Dooplet11
                    Dooplet11 22 January 2018 15: 14
                    0
                    And which answers are “correct”, you decide? laughing

                    1,2,3 or 4?
                    Well, if you rule in the definitions of Academician Svishchev, then I am completely silent.
                    Not 1, not 2, and not 3. The universal mind and divine zen! Great Dalai Lama.
                    You are right in everything. Forgive the insignificance of "0", O Teacher!
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 22 January 2018 15: 23
                      0
                      Try to write more correct than mine.
                      after the academician, someone could edit the encyclopedia, as an option.
                      1. Dooplet11
                        Dooplet11 22 January 2018 16: 16
                        0
                        More correct. than you, not even academicians can. I'm afraid to even try. Broadcast, everyone else, including academics, has to listen!
                    2. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 22 January 2018 17: 47
                      0
                      Do not again about me, go back to the questions.
                      1. Dooplet11
                        Dooplet11 22 January 2018 19: 01
                        0
                        Why, if it is more correct for you not to write even to academics? I'll go read them better. Academicians.
                    3. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 22 January 2018 19: 33
                      0
                      Then go back to the questions, if there is anything to answer.
                      Did you write it all according to their advice? As in the practical ceiling, which supposedly supersonic aircraft do not have?
                      https://topwar.ru/134146-russkiy-paren-sbil-fokke
                      -vulf-iz-minometa.html # comment-id-7801282
                      And so, on a new one:
                      Why did not the Americans immediately send a trial Apollo to the moon without astronauts in automatic mode?

                      25 test runs BEFORE THIS were not needed.