Military Review

In the United States highly appreciated the reliability of Soviet and Russian pistols

139
American military expert Kyle Mizokami highly appreciated the TT and PM pistols developed in the Soviet Union, and also approvingly commented on the Russian YP - the Yarygin pistol. First of all - the reliability and reliability of the trigger mechanisms, which allow the shooters to fire in any conditions.


In the United States highly appreciated the reliability of Soviet and Russian pistols


Externally, the "Tula Tokarev" was utilitarian and unattractive - in other words, very much fit into Soviet military aesthetics. Like most Soviet weapons it was extremely simple to use and reliable, although due to the lack of a fuse, it was necessary to carefully monitor in order to prevent accidental firing
- quotes the portal We Arethe Mighty military expert.

Note that the TT pistol developed in 1933 during tests at the test site showed excellent stopping power (bullet speed - 455 meters per second), high firing range (bullet flying distance - 1650 meters) and good accuracy. The weapon did not cause any failure or misfire during rapid firing after immersion in water and sand. Before 1952, only in the USSR about two million TT pistols were fired. In addition, these weapons were also manufactured in Hungary, China, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Egypt, Vietnam and Romania.

Makarov's automatic pistol was liked by the American expert with simplicity, which ensured his mass production in many countries of the world. The PM was built on a scheme that was also used in the German Walther PP. The gun received an open trigger, which allowed to remove the PM from the fuse and open fire, using only one hand. Another advantage of the gun was its low weight - the PM was lighter than the TT pistol on 130 grams.

In the middle of 1990-s, the Makarov pistol was replaced by a new pistol by Yarygin, which was put into service as a regular weapon of the power structures under the abbreviation "Grach", but also the Viking models are produced. The gun is a mixture of old and new designs, but, according to the analyst, he does not have enough laser mounts and a flashlight.

In Russia, pistols are easy to maintain, durable and reliable. Perhaps they are not as aesthetic and comfortable as modern American pistols, but in their manufacture the emphasis is on functionality. This means that they will show themselves well in extreme conditions and in war.
- concludes the author of the article, reports "RG-Force."
Photos used:
https://warbook.club/
139 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. 210ox
    210ox 11 January 2018 18: 29
    +4
    Defenders know a lot about weapons. Only this is the opinion of one expert ..
    1. vlad66
      vlad66 11 January 2018 18: 34
      54
      So it should be - Simple and reliable.
    2. Vanin
      Vanin 11 January 2018 18: 42
      17
      Quote: 210ox
      Defenders know a lot about weapons. Only this is the opinion of one expert ..

      Simplicity and reliability, this our "trick" in weapons has always been and will be in any type of weapon! This also applies to our soldiers in our history .. soldier
      1. adma
        adma 11 January 2018 21: 15
        10
        Quote: VANIN
        Simplicity and reliability, this is our "trick"

        Especially PY! Straight to the top of simplicity and RELIABILITY laughing
        God forbid mix up stores bully
        1. Foundling
          Foundling 12 January 2018 00: 57
          0
          Manual chimney generator
        2. Pax tecum
          Pax tecum 12 January 2018 06: 11
          +3
          Not the abundance and the choice of pistols is important, but what ammunition.
          After all, weapons are being designed for ammunition.
          It’s not difficult to make / upgrade even PM under 9x19, and what, as a result, are changes in ballistics.
          Plus the versatility of ammunition!
          And what the hell, in battles of the bar under the flashlight and target designator? Have time to get out of the holster ...
          From the PM instruction, we recall what it is intended for (and indeed any pistol). A clear and comprehensive proposal with a definition / purpose.
    3. Chertt
      Chertt 11 January 2018 18: 43
      +3
      Americans praise !!! Oh no good
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 11 January 2018 20: 49
        15
        In the 90s, I remember, and the Germans praised the PM. Like, in terms of price and quality, it will easily master the civilian weapons market, but we will not let it go. Something like this. Yes, and I like PM - simple, convenient, reliable. What else do you need from a "last chance" weapon?
        1. Svarog51
          Svarog51 11 January 2018 21: 23
          +7
          Valentine, hi PM on the Western market did not let the "green". The excuse was that it pollutes nature with exhaust. Well, you know, such a competitor in the West was not needed.
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 11 January 2018 22: 01
            11
            Sergey, hi They would, under any pretext, not let into their market what would not be profitable for them, that’s understandable. "Nothing personal," as they say drinks
            1. Svarog51
              Svarog51 11 January 2018 22: 28
              +1
              I know of course. The law of the market. wink drinks
        2. Nick
          Nick 11 January 2018 22: 53
          +5
          Quote: Doliva63
          In 90's, I remember, and the Germans praised PM. Like, in terms of price and quality, it will easily master the civilian arms market, but we will not let go. Something like this.

          Been to 00's in the states, in Virginia. Virginia is allowed to have and store weapons. So there our native PM cost 200 $. And we have a decent injury for the money you can’t buy
    4. NEXUS
      NEXUS 11 January 2018 18: 51
      13
      Quote: 210ox
      Defenders know a lot about weapons. Only this is the opinion of one expert ..

      Yesterday I wrote about this ... There is a wonderful Stechkin-Berdysh OTs-27 pistol, which has been tested and is armed with specialists. To finalize, modernize and put into series. It's time to tie endless prototypes with this Santa Barbara. The army and the forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs still use Makarov to this day.
      1. Sands Careers General
        Sands Careers General 11 January 2018 19: 03
        +4
        That is right. And then they constantly invent something. Of course, I am not against healthy competition, but there are normal pistols, why not use them?
      2. bouncyhunter
        bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 19: 42
        +6
        Hi Andrey! hi
        American military expert Kyle Mizokami

        I read this phrase and lost the desire to read the article, but still mastered. And regretted that he did not give in to the first impulse ...
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 11 January 2018 19: 51
          +7
          Quote: bouncyhunter
          Hi Andrey!

          Hello Pasha. hi
          Yesterday there was an article about the new Glock ... there will be a desire to read the discussion ... Makarov will be a hundred years old on Thursday, and he is already obsolete, and the modernization resource has been exhausted. But Berdysh is a fresh machine (relatively) and in no way inferior to glocks and colts. And we all indulge in prototypes and measure ourselves with someone thicker and longer: PL, PY, Gyurza, Viking, Swift, etc. ...
          1. bouncyhunter
            bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 19: 53
            +4
            Friendly, I read and voiced my opinion. wink
      3. Horst78
        Horst78 11 January 2018 19: 51
        +3
        Quote: NEXUS
        There is a wonderful Stechkin-Berdysh OTs-27 pistol

        So I consider OC-27 an excellent weapon.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 11 January 2018 19: 52
          +5
          Quote: Horst78
          So I consider OC-27 an excellent weapon.

          Specialists will not take crap into service.
          1. adma
            adma 11 January 2018 21: 33
            +2
            Quote: NEXUS
            Specialists will not take crap into service.


            A number of OC-27 pistols entered service with various units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation (in particular, private security and FSUE Okhrana). Since 2006, OC-27 has been in the arsenal of the Russian prosecutor’s office as a self-defense weapon for prosecutors and investigators

            In addition, since December 2005, they are an award weapon.

            Awesome specialists at our place. private security was especially pleased laughing
            PS: Could you throw a link to the order number on the arming of the OTs-27 pistol with some more respected special forces.
            Lino is my opinion. OC - ​​Stechkin understudy. The only possible advantage of OTs over APS is development under the cartridge 7,62x25 and 9x19.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 11 January 2018 21: 50
              +5
              Quote: adma
              Awesome specialists at our place. private security was especially pleased

              Here's a video for you, everything is clearly explained ... I’ll add that Berdysh is in the arsenal of the Russian prosecutor’s office as a weapon of self-defense for prosecutors and investigators.

              Quote: adma
              PS: Could you throw a link to the order number on the arming of the OTs-27 pistol with some more respected special forces.

              Will the execution and punishment service suit you?
              “Cobalt” was adopted by the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia and produced in Zlatoust, while “Berdysh” is produced in small batches by orders of the police department and special services.

              Quote: adma
              Lino is my opinion. OC - ​​Stechkin understudy.

              Berdysh, like Pernach, like Dartik, are all Stechkin’s creations. Wherein...
              TTX
              “Berdysh” OTs-27 GLOK-17 “Beretta -92” Heckler and Koch P-7
              Type of cartridge 9X18 PM / PMM 9X19 PARA9X19 PARA9X19 PARA
              Muzzle velocity (m / s) 325/420 350 390 350
              Sighting range (m) 50 50 50 50
              Weight (kg) 0,96 0,62 0,95 0,86
              Length (mm) 200 188 217 175
              Magazine capacity (pcs. Pat.) 18 17 15 13
              Rate of Fire (rds / min.) 40 40 40 35
              Here are the comparative characteristics of Berdysh with famous western pistols.
              1. adma
                adma 11 January 2018 22: 03
                +6
                The prosecutor's office, a lie, a watchman. trackers, judges ... Are these specialists? Straight fighting swimmers cats? laughing
                The choice of such specialists indicates not only the quality of the pistol as a military weapon, but also the possibility of attaching this sample at least somewhere.
                Here are the comparative characteristics of Berdysh with famous western pistols.

                Did I compare OTs with foreign pistols?
                And what did you show with your performance characteristics? That OTs duplicates APS? So I already know this very well. But why take into service a model that is no better than the old one already in service?
                And about the video. Baduk is certainly the largest expert. Thank you, you made my evening laughing
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. adma
                    adma 11 January 2018 22: 21
                    +3
                    Iron argument laughing laughing laughing
                    Good luck!
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 11 January 2018 22: 26
                      +3
                      Quote: adma
                      Iron argument laughing laughing laughing
                      Good luck!

                      So you have a reinforced concrete argument ... especially a comparison of APS with Berdysh lol
                      And you, do not cough. And thanks for having fun. laughing
      4. beeper
        beeper 11 January 2018 19: 52
        +4
        Dear NEXUS, "Berdysh" with a "free shutter" -this automatic system in the gun is not optimal for the powerful TT7,62x25mm and the Parabellum 9x19mm! request
        hi
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 11 January 2018 19: 57
          +6
          Quote: pishchak
          Dear NEXUS, "Berdysh" with a "free shutter" -this automatic system in the gun is not optimal for the powerful TT7,62x25mm and the Parabellum 9x19mm! request
          hi

          However, it is reliable as Kalashnikov, easy to learn and unpretentious. At the same time, with the strengthening of the cartridge, say a change to 9 * 21, it gives it much more extensive properties.
          Moreover, in any very good pistol, if you dig deeper, you can find the cons ... but again, our specialists are not suckers to take the junk into service.
          1. adma
            adma 11 January 2018 21: 37
            +1
            Quote: NEXUS
            say change to 9 * 21

            Why not 7.62x39? laughing
            Such a cartridge will not withstand structurally OTs. It is necessary to completely rework the entire system.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 11 January 2018 22: 06
              +4
              Quote: adma
              Such a cartridge will not withstand structurally OTs. It is necessary to completely rework the entire system.

              Ooty what a clever ... and up the branch and read ..
              Quote: NEXUS
              To finalize, modernize and put into series.

              In general, apparently not fate ... faster because you need to throw shit on the fan with a smart look.
              1. adma
                adma 11 January 2018 22: 13
                +4
                Quote: NEXUS
                Ooty what a clever ..

                Well, apparently smarter than you. laughing
                I am happy, Serozha, when you start to be rude. For you, couch experts, this is the most important argument in the dispute. laughing
                Quote: NEXUS
                and up the branch and read ..

                And I'm too lazy to read your nonsense.
                But now I know that you are also in small arms - caught up with YouTube. laughing
                Threat- "COMPLETELY PROCESS" and "FINISH" are two different concepts. At least for technically competent people hi
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 11 January 2018 22: 36
                  +3
                  Quote: adma
                  It makes me happy, Serozha, when you start to be rude

                  Who is rude then Serozha? laughing And since when are we with you?
                  Quote: adma
                  And I'm too lazy to read your nonsense.

                  Sorry illiterate, but I do not read your nonsense at all ...
                  Quote: adma
                  Threat- "COMPLETELY PROCESS" and "FINISH" are two different concepts. At least for technically competent people

                  Well, then you are a technically competent NOT couch specialist, to whom Stechkin has no authority at all. And you, a specialist-generalist, have created something more complicated than a spoon?
                  1. adma
                    adma 11 January 2018 22: 42
                    +3
                    Serozha, yes, good already! Enough! Take it easy !!! . I already made an opinion about you! laughing
          2. beeper
            beeper 12 January 2018 03: 13
            +2
            This is the same mass of the shutter and, accordingly, the Berdysh must have a reinforced frame in order to work correctly with the 9X21mm cartridge with the "free shutter" winked - Well, along the way, “one-handed weapons”! smile And this is a machine for aimed shooting yes
            Even with the Desert Eagle, not everyone can shoot, and the Berdysh, while maintaining the principle of automation, promises to be even harder and sharper in the dynamics of the rolling parts smile Are you the name of Igor Yakovlevich Stechkin, among the creators of this post-perestroika opportunistic “early maturity”, was the hypothetical or rude monumentality of appearance and the old Slavic name “Berdysh” somehow mesmerized ???
      5. Nick
        Nick 11 January 2018 22: 59
        +2
        Quote: NEXUS
        It's time to tie endless prototypes with this Santa Barbara. The army and the forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs still use Makarov to this day.

        It’s just that in Russia there is no law on the civilian circulation of weapons. If there was a market, then the diversity of models would not be out of place, and the government would have borne less development costs. Manufacturers themselves developed and improved their designs, in pursuit of the buyer. IMHO. But alas!
      6. Reserve officer
        Reserve officer 12 January 2018 00: 31
        +4
        Andrey, welcome! Yesterday's discussion, I see, continues. Yesterday I talked about this topic with my brother, an investigator of the RF IC. So he brought me an interesting argument why the OTs line is not accepted for service. The reason is the simplicity of changing the barrel in the gun. A cartridge case is one thing, but autographs of a bullet after leaving the barrel are quite another.
        Specialists with Stechkin's creations are one thing, but MO is another. Illegal pistols come from there. And if you also change the barrel on the pistol like gloves, then it becomes completely sad. Forensic scientists with their ballistic expertise will simply be in shock. This is the reason why OTs is not in the army. I repeat - this is the opinion of a professional.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 12 January 2018 00: 37
          +4
          Quote: Reserve officer
          Andrey, welcome!

          Welcome. hi
          Quote: Reserve officer
          This is the reason why OTs is not in the army. I repeat - this is the opinion of a professional.

          And who asks to do something for the army with interchangeable trunks? The machine itself is very successful. It would be facilitated and slightly modified, and we would be happy. And all these prototypes are already across the throat, and things are still there.
          1. Reserve officer
            Reserve officer 12 January 2018 00: 45
            +3
            Edren loaf! Who is arguing? Only now, when accepting weapons for arms for the army, now we have to consider such arguments as hiding the autograph of the shot and the availability of alteration. I, as an honest officer, as they say, did not think about this. But this is the reason. I repeat - this is the opinion of an informed professional, investigator of the RF IC.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 12 January 2018 00: 54
              +4
              Quote: Reserve officer
              I repeat - this is the opinion of an informed professional, investigator of the RF IC

              And what does this professional think of the new army pistol in general? Continue further with a tambourine around this all to jump until blue and wait until Makarov celebrates 100 years?
              1. Reserve officer
                Reserve officer 12 January 2018 13: 49
                +2
                Andrey, I apologize for the delay in responding. He himself wondered what his brother was thinking about this. Contacted, asked. He thinks that new developments will be in demand only in special forces and in the Russian Guard. But there will be a long battle over the army, there is clearly no special desire among the high-ranking officials of the Moscow Region to replace Makarov.
      7. Foundling
        Foundling 12 January 2018 01: 03
        +1
        Abandoned him in favor of GSH-18. They scattered and scored in three departments.
    5. Maz
      Maz 11 January 2018 19: 44
      0
      Quote: 210ox
      Defenders know a lot about weapons. Only this is the opinion of one expert ..

      He would have a store for 16 rounds and he does not need anything else.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 11 January 2018 20: 54
        +7
        12 rounds for PMM - probably the limit for a gun of this size. And to increase it is another gun.
  2. fa2998
    fa2998 11 January 2018 18: 30
    +1
    Well yes! And they are armed with Glocks, Berrettes and Sauers! lol hi
    1. zyzx
      zyzx 11 January 2018 18: 49
      +1
      Well, yes, and they are also armed with patriots, and not with the S-400, guess why?
      1. User
        User 11 January 2018 19: 55
        +2
        Well, you ask such questions. Instructions and controls and patriot in English, and C-400 in Russian.
  3. Herculesic
    Herculesic 11 January 2018 18: 30
    +3
    Give one to McCain - get shot to! Or "help" him, out of any finish! In general, there is the Senate, that the parliament is the target for a good bullet! They live too much!
    1. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 11 January 2018 22: 31
      +3
      Quote: Herkulesich
      Give one to McCain - get shot to! Or "help" him, out of any finish!

      Inspired by:
      Give McCain a PM - shot himself to quickly
      The simplicity and reliability of “Makar” - all because the villain would not have survived
      Even help him himself, from PAL il TT finish
      How many times you see McCain - so many times and kill him.
    2. Dedall
      Dedall 12 January 2018 23: 11
      +2
      Dear, do you remember the legend about why the Strategic Missile Forces were the first to adopt the PM, and after six months they refused, replacing it again with the TT? After all, they again began to receive only the late 70s.
      They say that this was connected with one case when an officer shot a clip from PM almost point blank for his wife and her lover. Both survived.
      From my own experience, I can say to a doctor that one cadet, by stupidity, shot himself from the PM in the face. He also survived, although his face was distorted. In another case, the “Czechs”, in order to finally stop the resistance of one “Alfovets”, were forced to release the entire clip in his face. At the same time, there was not a single through passage.
      So I would give this "talking head" from the Senate a simple traumatic blow. Cheap and cheerful. I once fired from him into a large doggie such as a Caucasian shepherd - and there isn’t that doggie. Notice that one bullet was enough.
      As for the armament of the army, when he served in Turkmenistan, we were given TT. Great machine! Accurate and lethal.
  4. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 11 January 2018 18: 31
    +5
    And what kind of weapon do we have bad or unfinished? Price - our quality has always won.
    1. Korax71
      Korax71 11 January 2018 23: 00
      +1
      Not really. The cost of our weapons does not take into account scientific development and design. In the 50s, the cost of a Kalashnikov assault rifle was in the region of 600-700 rubles and now the same clones are no more expensive than the same mk. We looked already and compared the costs.
  5. Herculesic
    Herculesic 11 January 2018 18: 32
    +6
    I’ll be proud to say that we always knew how to make great weapons! !! hi
  6. iliitchitch
    iliitchitch 11 January 2018 18: 36
    +2
    Um, "..not so aesthetic and comfortable ..". Actually, a basurman’s head is aesthetically or not aesthetically shot - no difference. The weapon must be functional. It’s you bastards, before you made an effigy from a Hindu, praying. In Russia, even the last scumbag nobleman, having the opportunity, never made effigies of people.
  7. martin-159
    martin-159 11 January 2018 18: 38
    +1
    Sorry, we can not appreciate this magnificence.
    1. zyzx
      zyzx 11 January 2018 18: 51
      0
      Not some can, apparently like you, either they will shoot the mashenka, then the head, then the mother-in-law ...
    2. woron333444
      woron333444 11 January 2018 19: 20
      +2
      I have a TT injury, really like it, better than Makarov.
      1. svp67
        svp67 12 January 2018 14: 41
        0
        Quote: woron333444
        I have a TT injury, really like it, better than Makarov.

        It depends on what. That's exactly how the “trauma" of PM is clearly better than TT, since it has a greater stopping effect of the bullet than TT
        1. woron333444
          woron333444 12 January 2018 14: 50
          +3
          the TT leader 11,4mm - 91J, and the PM - 57J. I have 11,4. When you shoot, you don’t even feel recoil. And at a distance of 5m - accuracy (even mine) of 5cm, and in the PM one time I hit the target. In recent years, the PM went very bad cartridges, then skew, then misfire.
  8. 1536
    1536 11 January 2018 18: 38
    +3
    Forgot about Stechkin ?! And "Gyurza" in service with police units in some States is. Perhaps the author was afraid to be considered a Russophile, because Colt and Beretta are beyond competition? By the way, in the USA it is full of other brands of short-barreled weapons, manufactured by several dozen firms. That's about their pistols, it would really be interesting to read analytical articles.
  9. svp67
    svp67 11 January 2018 18: 45
    +9
    After TT and PM, “Yarygin” is not very pleasant even to pick up ... There is no such “nobility”. Alas.
    And the American specialist would still have to take "Stechkin" for an "examination", I think I would be VERY pleased
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 11 January 2018 21: 00
      +8
      PM - an officer’s pistol, which also carries an assault rifle, and therefore convenient in size and weight - does not interfere. And if still to carry APS? Do not, thank you, I prefer PM! laughing drinks Regardless of the opinions of any experts.
      1. Svarog51
        Svarog51 11 January 2018 21: 48
        +3
        Figures, let the enemies die heroically. I'd rather tolerate being overweight. wink drinks
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 11 January 2018 22: 10
          +7
          I’m not sorry for the enemies either, but there were already 2 pistols in the “kit”! One on its side, the second under the pectoral bridge (silent). And if both are Stechkins, you’ll crawl to the enemy! laughing drinks
          1. Svarog51
            Svarog51 11 January 2018 22: 55
            +1
            It’s good that I didn’t hide anything on my ankle. What personally I strongly doubt. tongue I wouldn’t give you anything except a knife, there’s no need to make a noise. Your main weapon is noiselessness, good vision, hearing and memory. It’s not necessary to smash the adversary, to know everything about him to the smallest detail - this is your bread. Restore your skills. "No guys, I won’t give you a machine gun!" (from) wink drinks
        2. svp67
          svp67 12 January 2018 14: 40
          +2
          Quote: Svarog51
          I'd rather tolerate "overweight"

          And I’d better take an extra pair of packs of PM cartridges, they are somehow more expensive for health ...
          1. Svarog51
            Svarog51 12 January 2018 20: 25
            +1
            Namesake, welcome hi If I had a tank, I would go there ... And in the infantry only that the BMP will stubborn. Even a bicycle will not be given to reconnaissance, and on it so much useful can be “loaded”. wink
      2. svp67
        svp67 12 January 2018 14: 39
        +2
        Quote: Doliva63
        And if still to carry APS? Do not, fire, I prefer PM

        In a pair with AKSU, yes. I’d better take the extra ammunition ... And if one gun, then the APS is better
        1. Svarog51
          Svarog51 12 January 2018 20: 37
          +1
          Sergei, well, if AKSU, then why PM? Better a couple of stores to him than a barrel with other cartridges.
  10. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 11 January 2018 18: 51
    +6
    In war, dependability is always needed over aesthetics and ergonomics
    1. svp67
      svp67 12 January 2018 14: 54
      +1
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      In war, dependability is always needed over aesthetics and ergonomics

      Well, if aesthetics and ergonomics are also faultless, it’s actually !!!!! Class!
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 12 January 2018 15: 02
        +6
        A priori weapons of war should be as cheap as possible in production with high basic requirements - to effectively kill and work in rain and mud. Everything else is secondary and, if available, only as a pleasant bonus
        1. svp67
          svp67 12 January 2018 15: 10
          +1
          Quote: KVU-NSVD
          Everything else is secondary and, if available, only as a pleasant bonus

          I agree with you, with one "but." Pistols are still weapons of hidden wearing or are worn in holsters and having poor ergonomics, will deprive the owner of a chance for life, as they can cling to something at the most inopportune moment ....
          1. KVU-NSVD
            KVU-NSVD 12 January 2018 15: 20
            +7
            Aspects such as pulling out of a cabaret without hooks are more likely to be a gun’s suitability altogether. I’m not at all against the convenience of pistols, I’m just saying that an army pistol must meet production conditions in wartime - as well as any weapon (of course, if possible)
            1. svp67
              svp67 12 January 2018 15: 26
              +1
              Quote: KVU-NSVD
              army pistol must meet wartime production conditions

              I would say that any weapon should meet this criterion.
              1. KVU-NSVD
                KVU-NSVD 12 January 2018 15: 35
                +7
                I agree, but there are always samples that are collected for a narrow circle (MTR, etc.), you really need to take care of all the little things or military hardware, the release of which in a big war can still not be mastered en masse
  11. Vard
    Vard 11 January 2018 18: 56
    +3
    Damn ... Well, how does it turn out ... We have the best pistols in the world, and from the gopniks we dismiss the shafts ...
    1. woron333444
      woron333444 11 January 2018 19: 22
      +2
      Buy injury and brush it off fellow
      1. activator
        activator 11 January 2018 19: 42
        +7
        Quote: woron333444
        Buy injury and brush it off

        That’s the fact of the matter, that you just wave it off, otherwise you will suddenly exceed self-defense measures and whoever just invented it. If a kid climbs on you twice as much, then he cannot be with a knife, but useless with his hands. Here it is necessary to change the law, protect their lives and the lives of their loved ones in any way, others will think about banging a couple, otherwise they showed the robber in snot because the owner killed his partner in his house and that poor fellow cried that we already fled to the window, and he shot at them and the guy got slammed in excess. In fact, the law is on the side of the bandits.
        1. woron333444
          woron333444 11 January 2018 20: 44
          +2
          As for our laws, I completely agree, but when the bandits climb, there will be a choice to either sit out or play in a box with relatives.
    2. Korax71
      Korax71 11 January 2018 23: 02
      0
      Who said ????? where did you come up with this ????
    3. svp67
      svp67 12 January 2018 14: 55
      +1
      Quote: Vard
      We have the best pistols in the world, and from the gopniks we dismiss the shafts ...

      It is so, the shafts will be more reliable. you will not miss and there are no distortions
  12. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 11 January 2018 19: 10
    +1
    American expert liked the Makarov automatic pistol because of its simplicity

    Heh ..)
  13. Wolka
    Wolka 11 January 2018 19: 10
    +1
    all ingenious is simple and reliable ...
  14. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General 11 January 2018 19: 18
    +4
    Makar, of course, is pretty good, but still lacks grace, I don’t know how to explain even ...
    It was once)) Indeed, simple and reliable.

    1. bouncyhunter
      bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 19: 40
      +4
      Zhora, welcome! hi However, a very picturesque still life. I would call it "Cockroach Tablet." lol
      1. Sands Careers General
        Sands Careers General 11 January 2018 20: 03
        +4
        Hello Pasha hi
        The usual still life for Lugansk 2014-2015 ...
        1. bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 20: 05
          +4
          Better on "you" - I do not like officialdom. drinks And about the origin of the photo: I guessed that this was clearly not from the Internet. wink
          1. Sands Careers General
            Sands Careers General 11 January 2018 20: 17
            +3
            So exactly yes
            From the expanses of personal photos.
            Can you drinks
            1. bouncyhunter
              bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 20: 27
              +3
              That's good . As for Macarka - he is out of date already, of course. I myself know him firsthand.
              1. Sands Careers General
                Sands Careers General 11 January 2018 20: 42
                +3
                There are things for centuries, especially something like the Colt 1911 ... They knew how to do it, more than a hundred years, and is still relevant.
                1. bouncyhunter
                  bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 20: 51
                  +4
                  So there the cartridge is powerful, and there are so many variations around the Colt M1911 device around the world that my mother does not worry. yes
                2. Svarog51
                  Svarog51 11 January 2018 21: 54
                  +2
                  Zhora, welcome hi In Pasha you met a soul mate. He can talk about shooting more than about the fair sex. Write to him in a personal - you will not regret it, discuss it - mother do not grieve. good drinks
                  1. Sands Careers General
                    Sands Careers General 11 January 2018 22: 23
                    +4
                    Good evening, Sergey hi

                    I'll keep it on mind)))
                    Recently I pawed such a thing)))
                    1. Svarog51
                      Svarog51 11 January 2018 23: 31
                      +2
                      In, you show her Pasha. Well, he will purr like a cat over sour cream. good And if you give it to him, then he will forget about the cognac bubble on the table. lol One thing I can say for sure, if you start such a conversation with him - stock up on time. drinks
                      1. Sands Careers General
                        Sands Careers General 11 January 2018 23: 51
                        +3
                        Already shown)))
                        At the very hands itchy, just let the arms fall apart)))
                    2. Svarog51
                      Svarog51 12 January 2018 00: 10
                      +3
                      It is necessary to add the section "Dugout" on such site for such conversations. You and Pasha will definitely take it for a long time, and each next one will be allowed to go there with a new barrel. good drinks Here's another san4es in your company third. That really was by the rules. wink
                    3. Foundling
                      Foundling 12 January 2018 01: 07
                      +2
                      Wow so SCS fuck up!
  15. san4es
    san4es 11 January 2018 19: 22
    +7
    American expert liked the Makarov automatic pistol because of its simplicity

    ... PM is a self-loading pistol, APS is automatic soldier
    1. bouncyhunter
      bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 19: 48
      +6
      Sanya, hi! hi
      Quote: san4es
      PM is a self-loading pistol, APS is automatic

      Mattresses have traditionally called self-loading pistols "automatic." yes
      1. san4es
        san4es 11 January 2018 20: 03
        +3
        ... Hi Pash ... What is their poor language what
        1. bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 20: 09
          +5
          You know, English in terms of profanity specifically loses to our great and mighty. lol And so they have most of the words have several meanings, but here it is not a matter of language, but of traditional classification. When the first self-loading pistol appeared, it was called "automatic" because it automatically recharged.
          1. san4es
            san4es 11 January 2018 20: 15
            +4
            When the first self-loading pistol appeared, it was called "automatic" because it automatically recharged.

            ... Yeah ... And there was a muzzle-loading, they called it self-loading, because SAMO need to charge laughing
            1. bouncyhunter
              bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 20: 16
              +4
              I did not go into such a jungle of their classification. lol
              1. san4es
                san4es 11 January 2018 20: 21
                +4
                Do not need. wink
                .. Self-loading pistol - self-loading pistol.
                Automatic pistol - Automatic pistol ... hi
                1. bouncyhunter
                  bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 20: 24
                  +3
                  Well, thanks for telling me. And then I'm in English vapsche oak oak. lol
                  1. san4es
                    san4es 11 January 2018 20: 27
                    +3
                    ... C'mon, this is a Translator ... That's why they have: Shot = shoot = shoot = hit = throw = shot drinks
                    1. bouncyhunter
                      bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 20: 39
                      +4
                      What I said: they have few words with one meaning. As for English and my ignorance of it, I joked, of course. Why is the 11,43mmX23 cartridge called .45ACP? Because .45 is its caliber in inches, and ACP is short for Automatic Colt Pistol. wink
                      1. san4es
                        san4es 11 January 2018 20: 47
                        +4
                        Automatic Colt Pistol

                        ... Zyr comedy ... booming .merikos under Chuck Norris mows lol

                        ... but the trunk is beautiful
                2. bouncyhunter
                  bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 21: 08
                  +4
                  Quote: san4es
                  ... but the trunk is beautiful

                  And then! Here is one of its custom versions:
                  1. san4es
                    san4es 11 January 2018 21: 15
                    +3
                    Quote: bouncyhunter
                    And then! Here is one of its custom versions.

                    Yeah ... It's like "Desert Eagle" - "Desert eagle 50", I saw somehow a film from its production

                    ...or not what
                    1. bouncyhunter
                      bouncyhunter 11 January 2018 21: 25
                      +4
                      Sanya, "Desert eagle" is a Savsam other pistol, it is not produced under .45 ACP, and the automation in it is gas venting.

                      If you want - read about it, here is the link: http://modernfirearms.net/en/pistolety-i-revolver
                      y / pistolety / izrail-pistolety / desert-eagle /
                      1. san4es
                        san4es 11 January 2018 21: 33
                        +3
                        ...Clear.
                        The muzzle brake / compensator on your custom Colt confused fellow
            2. AleksPol
              AleksPol 11 January 2018 21: 36
              +3
              san4es
              ... Yeah ... And there was a muzzle-loading, they called it self-loading, because MUST charge yourself МО

              But yes, such a hang on the carpet. Sorry for the finances will not pull.
              1. san4es
                san4es 11 January 2018 21: 40
                +3
                Quote: AleksPol
                ... hang it on the carpet. Sorry for the finances will not pull.

                ... Well, at least a picture on the "desktop" com-pa fellow wink
    2. beeper
      beeper 12 January 2018 03: 51
      +2
      PM and APS, by design, like twin brothers, real handsome good !
      Their honed and rational rifle beauty would be equal to the domestic creators of the current, "brick-chopped, with squiggles," pistol "freaks"!
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. Azazelo
    Azazelo 11 January 2018 19: 33
    0
    So what? Is this a type of indicator? Have you approved means it is suitable?
  18. Alex20042004
    Alex20042004 11 January 2018 19: 47
    +1
    How everyone got itwhen you start with the words ... in the US ...... "
    At the same time, Psaki begins to sympathize with me more than those who begin with these words.
    What besides the USA there is nobody ?!
  19. ded100
    ded100 11 January 2018 19: 48
    +1
    Voo in extreme and in war, what you need is, well, not in a dash to her God! wassat
  20. Horst78
    Horst78 11 January 2018 19: 49
    +1
    Until 1952, only two million TT pistols were produced in the USSR alone. In addition, these weapons were also produced in Hungary, China, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Egypt, Vietnam and Romania.
    The DPRK also has its own versions.
  21. Dormidont
    Dormidont 11 January 2018 20: 58
    +3
    God himself ordered our Western and Middle Eastern partners to stock up on Russian defense products. There will be something to shoot. And will not misfire
  22. SCHMEL
    SCHMEL 11 January 2018 21: 27
    +2
    military expert Kyle Mizokami praised ...
    It looks like this "little man" works after prepayment laughing

    http://kylemizokami.com/?attachment_id=70
  23. Alex-a832
    Alex-a832 11 January 2018 21: 44
    +5
    Nothing will change from the opinion of this expert. The same PM has long been half a century old. This is the most massive pistol (as well as the cartridge for it) in the post-Soviet and in the case of TMV it will be the most massive melee weapon. Simple and reliable like a hammer and chisel. Most of all I had to use it PM. Misfires were only on old cartridges, which were removed from storage and shot at the shooting range. On new ones there was often a tight descent. Not a problem - the effort was brought to personal taste, as they say, "on the knee." It would be allowed to store a rifled short-barrel - I would take myself a PM. This is really a combat barrel - simple, reliable, massive and cheap to manufacture, like the Kalashnikovs.
    1. beeper
      beeper 12 January 2018 01: 56
      +2
      I fully agree with you good , dear Alex-a832!
      hi
  24. AleksPol
    AleksPol 11 January 2018 21: 49
    +2
    san4es
    Well, at least a picture on the "desktop" com-pa fellow wink[/ Quote]
    good
    Not on the desktop pictures of nature, according to the seasons. And I sometimes want to take this in my hands, touch the antiquity. All modern weapons are stamped, and the master put his hands to this, you can say piece work hi
  25. Sige
    Sige 11 January 2018 21: 54
    +1
    American military expert Kyle Mizokami noted that the Soviet pistol does not have enough mounts for the laser, flashlight and cup holder.
  26. Georges Pompidou
    Georges Pompidou 11 January 2018 22: 01
    +1
    I hope soon the United States will appreciate the reliability of Russian missiles and nuclear warheads! angry
  27. tchoni
    tchoni 11 January 2018 22: 22
    +3
    the same article has already been translated under the heading "weapons" ... What, the news is over?
    1. Curious
      Curious 11 January 2018 23: 22
      +1
      It's just that it fits well with the concept of the site and is liked by the public, hanging in the "News" section. Here it was, as they used to say, "at the request of the working people" and repeated.
      1. beeper
        beeper 12 January 2018 04: 23
        +3
        I thought so too winked , dear Tchoni and Curious, after all, a more detailed retelling of the article by Kyle Mizokami has already been thoroughly discussed smile
        This "expert", quite incompetent and superficial, stealthily, slightly "praising", introduces to his readers a "thought-message" that all the advantages of our domestic weapons, which Mizokami can’t deny or shut up, are only barbarously "copied" from American, "universal", samples ... I would not be seduced by the Kailovsky "praises", after them a bad aftertaste- "sediment remains" smile !
        hi
  28. Hurricane70
    Hurricane70 12 January 2018 03: 33
    +2
    Quote: NEXUS
    Quote: bouncyhunter
    Hi Andrey!

    Hello Pasha. hi
    Yesterday there was an article about the new Glock ... there will be a desire to read the discussion ... Makarov will be a hundred years old on Thursday, and he is already obsolete, and the modernization resource has been exhausted. But Berdysh is a fresh machine (relatively) and in no way inferior to glocks and colts. And we all indulge in prototypes and measure ourselves with someone thicker and longer: PL, PY, Gyurza, Viking, Swift, etc. ...

    How is PM obsolete and all the more moral? Does it have a wooden shutter? Or shoots cores? It works according to the same scheme with foreign cars, is reliable (and the article is about reliability), is light and small, what do you, godfathers, by the names of those who call themselves still need something? That ammunition to improve, this is the case! But I repeat, an article on recognizing the reliability of our pistols as crafty!
  29. beeper
    beeper 12 January 2018 04: 10
    +2
    san4es,
    I thought that in the end, “Chuck Norris”, in courage, “shoot” the video camera right into the lens winked .
    The beautiful Colt 1911 pistol, after PM and the TOZ-36 revolver, enters the trinity of my favorite short-barrels yes
    This American’s gilded “Colt” is in danger — in the shutter, in the window for ejecting sleeves, a weak crack develops from the cutout angle under the centering protrusion of the barrel breech, which is fraught with destruction when fired ...
    hi
  30. gukoyan
    gukoyan 12 January 2018 11: 03
    0
    PM, PY, TT - all this is slag ... The only best Soviet pistol is Stechkin’s automatic pistol, but a bit big and heavy ... But it has many more advantages.
    1. beeper
      beeper 12 January 2018 12: 42
      +2
      You reminded me of your “pluses several times” in the dialogue between the two former “sitters” —one says to the other: “Yes, for God's sake!”, And he replies to him in tone: “Everyone says“ give birth to God, ”and you yourself tried to give birth to God ?! " winked
      What are the “pluses” in your opinion, except, perhaps, for the large capacity of the store? smile
      hi
      1. gukoyan
        gukoyan 16 January 2018 12: 30
        0
        High reliability and the same accuracy and accuracy, the possibility of automatic fire, design, a larger stock of ammunition, high interest among collectors, this gun was in service with officers and special services, great fire power and efficiency, the sound of a shot was quieter due to the long barrel small return.
  31. FLOOD
    FLOOD 12 January 2018 15: 27
    +1
    Yeah, the frame from the second clip hits its head laughing
  32. Netzah netzah
    Netzah netzah 12 January 2018 23: 41
    +1
    I really don’t know what IksperD is, but he hardly understands the pistols. Neither TT, nor even Yarygin shine with reliability. PM yes - a reliable pistol, but in terms of combat qualities, it is only suitable for shooting (and only in the mouth, the temple may not penetrate).
    1. Alex-a832
      Alex-a832 14 January 2018 22: 17
      +1
      You did not confuse PM with PSM for an hour. I do not know a single case that a bullet from a PM did not pierce the temporal or frontal bone at point blank range. In the head after such a hit, a continuous mess is the characteristics of a bullet. I won’t argue about PSM. Almost never used this pupa. In the dash, normal cartridges misfired. The idea for secretive wearing - such as the last chance, but not brought to mind.
  33. Catfish
    Catfish 14 January 2018 03: 48
    +2
    I served as an urgent in the tank - 54 OTP. So our deputy technotech of the battalion, painting the armaments of the T-54 medium tank for recruits (this is 1967), said the following: “... and, among other things, each crew member has a service pistol of the Makarov system. So you ask me: And to hell with a tanker, the system pistol Makarova? And to SHOOT when the tank will be hit! " I can not disagree with him. He shot from Makar and after the service, the most negative impressions. But APS is a really excellent and talented machine.
    1. Alex-a832
      Alex-a832 14 January 2018 22: 33
      +1
      PM is an excellent melee gun - at distances of up to 20 meters. At distances of more than 20, Kalashnikov is effective. Stechkin is good for shooting ranges and at distances of up to 50 meters, like a massive melee pistol is not good - heavy, dimensional. The conversation is about the MASS pistol - for a fighter of any ranking and degree of training.
  34. Catfish
    Catfish 15 January 2018 00: 44
    +1
    In fact, at a distance of 20 meters and you can get a brick, Kalashnikov a little bit at other distances protected. But from Makarov is not very - a crooked gun. But with APS and fifty dollars there were no problems. I agree, it’s a bit cumbersome, but, in my opinion, it sits well in the hand and is quite an apprentice. And with the "mass gun for any fighter" there will certainly be more problems. Somehow we were not very keen on producing this type of weapon. And the traditions are not the same as, say, in Germany. And I didn’t hear anything good about Yarygin from those who used it seriously, not on the dash. Import preferred.
    1. Alex-a832
      Alex-a832 15 January 2018 07: 31
      +2
      You do not carry the service carp with you, or rather, 2-3 clips of time bricks. For distances, I proceed from the distance of a shot at a vantage point, and not in a shooting range and shooting range. In most cases, Makarov is needed when you encounter an enemy almost in hand-to-hand hit from him in the limbs or put the enemy out of action. In bronze even 3 classes are better not to try - against protection the cartridge is weak. Problems with him for more than half a century have not been and never will be. You just do not need to consider it as a particularly versatile trunk. In the event of a war with replenishment of ammunition, there would be no problems for him at all, as well as for 5,45 to the Kalash. Recall tanks: the T-34 lost to the “tiger” in almost everything, but due to its mass, unpretentiousness, and reliability, the T-34 was the best WWII tank.