Military Review

Media: US will put Ukraine ATGM TOW instead of "Javelin"

146
The United States is going to supply Ukraine with TOW anti-tank missile systems (ATGW), rather than the more modern Javelin, Ukrainian media reported.


Media: US will put Ukraine ATGM TOW instead of "Javelin"


Reports in the press that the American ATGM Javelin may be in the regiment of the Ministry of the Interior "Azov" do not correspond to reality. Moreover, the States will provide Ukraine with TOW anti-tank systems, not Javelin
- reports "Ukrinform" with reference to a source in the General Staff.

It is reported that the United States can supply arms to Ukraine for one year.

In December, the American media reported on the approval by US President Donald Trump of supplying Ukraine with Javelin complexes. Earlier, the media said that Trump is going to approve the supply of anti-tank to Ukraine weapons on 47 million dollars.
Photos used:
http://prospb.com/
146 comments
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  1. Rusland
    Rusland 9 January 2018 18: 43
    20
    Radish horseradish is not sweeter. Just start, and everything will go there.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 9 January 2018 18: 47
      +7
      Of course there is nothing to rejoice. Interestingly, the ruin has its own example of such devices. "Stugna" seems. For anyone again, the West "framed" and "offended" Svidomites.
      Quote: Rusland
      Radish horseradish is not sweeter. Just start, and everything will go there.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Thrall
          Thrall 9 January 2018 19: 23
          32
          Instead of "Javelins" or TOU for Ukraine, the United States, in the end, will put "Kambul" smile
          1. spech
            spech 9 January 2018 19: 44
            10
            Where is the galley laughing
            1. Going
              Going 9 January 2018 20: 28
              +7
              And who cares what to sell? lol And cambula is a supper. laughing
              1. Thrall
                Thrall 9 January 2018 20: 32
                +1
                Quote: Going
                And cambula is a supper.

                So go take her laughing
                (sorry for the familiarity)
                1. Going
                  Going 9 January 2018 20: 47
                  +6
                  No, he tore off the check, let him ... laughing
          2. Captain Nemo
            Captain Nemo 9 January 2018 20: 10
            +8
            In my opinion, the monkeys perfectly understand the Russian obscene)))
            1. Lexus
              Lexus 9 January 2018 21: 46
              +4
              Along the way, they explained the meaning of the cambul in a very intelligible way through other "lula" laughing
            2. Maki Avellevich
              Maki Avellevich 9 January 2018 22: 10
              +5
              Quote: Captain Nemo
              In my opinion, the monkeys perfectly understand the Russian obscene)))


              man sorry. I’m stuck to work in some sort of Titan with shots that they cannot really take a flounder.
          3. beeper
            beeper 10 January 2018 05: 04
            0
            Thank you, dear Lexus, for the video voice acting is a masterpiece! good
            I still laugh, so vividly reminded me of episodes of youth ...
            hi
      2. The_lancet
        The_lancet 9 January 2018 18: 58
        +3
        The United States is going to supply Ukraine with TOW anti-tank missile systems (ATGMs), and not more modern Javelin

        Probably the reason is the fear that this weapon will fall into the hands of the enemy. And of course, right after that, Russian military experts, along with all the secrets of the design.
        1. DMB_95
          DMB_95 9 January 2018 19: 08
          16
          Quote: The_Lancet

          Probably the reason is the fear that this weapon will fall into the hands of the enemy. And of course, right after that, Russian military experts, along with all the secrets of the design.

          I strongly doubt that Russian experts have not yet "got acquainted" with "all the secrets of the design."
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 9 January 2018 19: 13
            +6
            Quote: DMB_95
            I strongly doubt that Russian experts have not yet "got acquainted" with "all the secrets of the design."

            In Syria, the Ishilovites used Mattress anti-tank systems, and I’m sure the trophy Javas and Tou have been studied with us for a long time.
            1. alexmach
              alexmach 9 January 2018 20: 17
              +6
              What other trophy Java? Who did you see them from? Which women?
              This is an expensive toy, available only to the elite, it is not delivered free of charge.
          2. The_lancet
            The_lancet 9 January 2018 19: 15
            +3
            I strongly doubt that Russian experts have not yet "got acquainted" with "all the secrets of the design."

            But there are no results. For some reason, there is still no Russian “copy-counterpart.” Despite the great effectiveness of the “original.”
            1. DMB_95
              DMB_95 9 January 2018 19: 25
              11
              Quote: The_Lancet
              For some reason, there is still no Russian “copy-counterpart.” Despite the great effectiveness of the “original”

              Not so great was this efficiency in Syria, in contrast to its high price. And the “Leopards” and “Abrams” were burning from simple RPGs.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 10 January 2018 00: 01
                0
                The effectiveness of TOW is very high. Almost every hit is a burnt tank.
                RPGs were almost never used. Bassoons, Cornets - yes.
            2. Non liberoid Russian
              Non liberoid Russian 9 January 2018 19: 29
              +9
              where is such certainty that does not exist? and so categorically? sleep with Shoigu and know all the secrets of the Russian Defense Ministry?
              1. dvina71
                dvina71 9 January 2018 19: 43
                +8
                Quote: Not Liberoid Russian
                where is such certainty that does not exist?

                / Because such a device is simply not needed by our MO ..
                There is nothing complicated to attach the GOS to a rocket .., there’s a rule of law with them))) .. It’s necessary to understand that J. is a product of the Cold War .. more correctly than the ideas of NATO generals about a hot war with the USSR. According to their ideas, the NATO forces were to repel MASSIVE tank attacks .. In this situation, the use of a large number of ATGM J. would give a result even at their low efficiency. Time is running out .. The firing range is simply that the MS of the RF Armed Forces branch covers the extreme launch point of the JJ ..., BMPTs are bought in support of the tanks, which cover this radius with interest and have advanced detection means .. Now we need to talk about the shot mode - hit .., GOS in the conditions of battle cannot give such a guarantee. TOU in my opinion is more dangerous ... actually in Syria it was they who thinned out the government of ..
                1. Antony
                  Antony 10 January 2018 02: 34
                  0
                  It’s easy to attach a seeker, but difficult to do. The difference in temperature of the MTO of the tank and the environment is a maximum of 100 degrees, and the plane on the exhaust 1000, dust, interference from hot trunks and this must be understood at a distance of launch.
            3. Stiletto_711
              Stiletto_711 9 January 2018 19: 35
              12
              Quote: The_Lancet
              But there are no results. For some reason, there is still no Russian “copy-counterpart.” Despite the great effectiveness of the “original.”

              The "Tou" complex is old as mammoth excrement, has long been surpassed by a number of domestic ATGMs, and they did not start to analog Javelin because the price / quality criterion does not meet the requirements of the Moscow Region. Learn materiel hi
            4. NEXUS
              NEXUS 9 January 2018 19: 41
              +9
              Quote: The_Lancet
              But there are no results. For some reason, there is still no Russian “copy-counterpart.” Despite the great effectiveness of the “original.”

              Sorry, but how much does Java cost and how much does the same Cornet cost? If sclerosis does not fail me, then Javelin costs about 200 thousand Baku, and Cornet-D is 10! Times cheaper.
              At the same time, Cornet comparatively successfully beats adversary tanks.
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 10 January 2018 14: 00
                0
                Did someone beat the adversary tanks with Javelin? What Cornet, that TOU is quite good with one rocket make modern tank. The difference in mobility (something easier, harder) and the TOU-2V has a rocket for attack from above. The Kornets (new) have an automatic target tracking system .... but these are the details.
            5. vlad66
              vlad66 9 January 2018 19: 42
              11
              Quote: The_Lancet
              I strongly doubt that Russian experts have not yet "got acquainted" with "all the secrets of the design."

              But there are no results. For some reason, there is still no Russian “copy-counterpart.” Despite the great effectiveness of the “original.”

              And what will they report to you about what or how you like to accompany our SU-30 over the Baltic and yell that this is a great victory? laughing It’s not accepted in our country and they don’t.
              Quote: VAGNER
              And the money was probably transferred and trumpeted ...

              The US government will transfer the money to the supplier under guarantees, and Ukrainians will receive another debt with interest, which will be given by several generations. laughing
              1. bouncyhunter
                bouncyhunter 9 January 2018 20: 50
                +4
                Vlad, good evening! hi drinks
                Quote: vlad66
                The US government will transfer the money to the supplier under guarantees, and Ukrainians will receive another debt with interest, which will be given by several generations.

                Key phrase of all coasters (not supplies wink ) lethal weapons ukroreichsmacht. yes good
            6. Star
              Star 9 January 2018 20: 04
              +1
              I think it’s the price.
              Only you can think of making a plane "out of gold" (F-22), although of course the plane is cool.
            7. Captain Nemo
              Captain Nemo 9 January 2018 20: 11
              +1
              Oh my God .... And then in the USSR and Russia did not create anything original and do not. Maybe remove the fingers from the keyboard? Just in case
            8. Prisoner
              Prisoner 9 January 2018 21: 40
              0
              Our Cornet works fine. Though not everything is glorious in terms of secrecy, but in terms of range, cost and effectiveness, the “Abrams” have experienced them on themselves, but they will not tell. wink
            9. user1212
              user1212 10 January 2018 05: 10
              0
              Quote: The_Lancet
              For some reason, there is still no Russian "copy-analogue"

              Because he is not needed. Our MO range and cost are not satisfied
        2. Nick
          Nick 9 January 2018 22: 05
          0
          Quote: The_Lancet
          Probably the reason is the fear that this weapon will fall into the hands of the enemy. And of course right after that, Russian military experts, along with all the secrets of the design.

          He will get there, and very quickly, before he appears in the troops. Only not with the enemy, as you put it, but with the buyers. which, as you know, are always right. To whom is war, and to whom is mother dear? Old soldier saying.
        3. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 10 January 2018 00: 44
          +1
          Quote: The_Lancet
          Probably the reason is the fear that this weapon will fall into the hands of the enemy. And of course, right after that, the Russian military experts, along with all the secrets of the design.

          Are you sure that the Russian military no longer lies in the "zashnik" (it is possible that quite a while ago ...) "Javelin" ... and, not even one?
        4. user1212
          user1212 10 January 2018 05: 06
          0
          Quote: The_Lancet
          And of course, right after that, Russian military experts, along with all the design secrets

          I will tell you a terrible secret. Russian military experts examined and dismantled a javelin to a screw before he entered the US forces
          1. Korax71
            Korax71 10 January 2018 09: 36
            0
            Aha. Then finally our penny defense industry is worth a penny or something ???
            1. user1212
              user1212 11 January 2018 19: 39
              0
              Quote: Korax71
              Well, once they’ve sorted it, then where is the same gos on the cornet

              And why is there a GOS? To increase the cost by five times and reduce the distance by more than two times, just to the distance of aimed fire of a tank gun?
      3. alexmach
        alexmach 9 January 2018 20: 14
        +1
        In general, the larger the nomenclature of weapons, the more specialists need to be trained to work with it ... But actually there is nothing good in these deliveries either. The saturation of anti-tank systems can give them a qualitative advantage .... You can answer it - only symmetrically.
    2. VAGNER
      VAGNER 9 January 2018 18: 52
      +5
      As I understand it, the United States will not deliver anything to Kiev ...))))) However, the Anglo-Saxons ..!
      And the money was probably transferred and trumpeted ...
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 9 January 2018 18: 55
        +3
        Quote: VAGNER
        As I understand it, the United States will not deliver anything to Kiev ...)))))

        Why not put it? Them are lying around in warehouses. And installations, and missiles with expiring shelf life.
    3. Professor
      Professor 9 January 2018 18: 54
      +9
      Quote: Rusland
      Radish horseradish is not sweeter. Just start, and everything will go there.

      Do not confuse something with a finger. Tou is a dinosaur. In Ukraine, its ATGMs are no worse. Javelin is a completely different story ..
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 9 January 2018 19: 00
        +3
        Quote: Professor
        Tou is a dinosaur. In Ukraine, its ATGMs are no worse

        This is if the brackets are missiles that hit the target from above on the span. But their Americans certainly won’t deliver, the probability that Russia will have algorithms is too high.
        1. Professor
          Professor 9 January 2018 19: 59
          +6
          Quote: Spade
          Quote: Professor
          Tou is a dinosaur. In Ukraine, its ATGMs are no worse

          This is if the brackets are missiles that hit the target from above on the span. But their Americans certainly won’t deliver, the probability that Russia will have algorithms is too high.

          There are no secret algorithms there. It's just that those missiles are much more expensive and therefore they are not given to anyone.

          Quote: NEXUS
          And under them there are qualified military men who are able to use this nifiga not a cheap device?

          In your opinion, the Ukrainian military who graduated from your same military schools have two left hands?

          Quote: Rusland
          I am about the principle, and you are about the details, look wider. And about your fingers, tell your friends over a glass of tea.

          And I basically. TOU ancient, developed in 1950's, second generation. Javelin is different.

          Quote: SPACE
          And what's the story? Right now I guess: "shot and forgot"

          It’s also not bad, but Javelin is dangerous in that he hits the scum on the roof.

          Quote: SPACE
          otherwise he’ll getьAs in this joke: I shot and forgot, and from there 125 mm a high explosive parasite from above and flew even to mine, the warriors, playing with laughter, were afraid of it.

          Yeah. In Syria, we all saw how barefoot with the ancient TOU were invulnerable to the "125 mm high explosive parasite." Upload videos?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 9 January 2018 20: 06
            0
            Quote: Professor
            There are no secret algorithms there.

            Yeah ... So all the algorithms and numbers by which a rocket with the help of a magnetometer and an altimeter determines the presence of a tank underneath can be easily found in Google?
            1. Professor
              Professor 10 January 2018 08: 07
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              Quote: Professor
              There are no secret algorithms there.

              Yeah ... So all the algorithms and numbers by which a rocket with the help of a magnetometer and an altimeter determines the presence of a tank underneath can be easily found in Google?

              Again. There are no secret algorithms there. Conventional profilometer (not altimeter) and magnetometer. Moreover, no “algorithms” can be “copied” from a real sample of an adversary. Maximum you can "sketch" the design.
          2. alexmach
            alexmach 9 January 2018 20: 22
            0
            And I basically. TOU ancient, developed in 1950's, second generation. Javelin is different.

            As I understand it, we are still talking about TOU-2. The first TOU is probably already in the warehouses of the Americans do not have any
            1. Professor
              Professor 9 January 2018 20: 33
              0
              Quote: alexmach
              And I basically. TOU ancient, developed in 1950's, second generation. Javelin is different.

              As I understand it, we are still talking about TOU-2. The first TOU is probably already in the warehouses of the Americans do not have any

              What kind of missiles will be delivered to Ukraine is unknown. If it's BGM-71C, then it's a dinosaur. If BGM-71D (TOW-2) then this is a mammoth.
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 9 January 2018 21: 34
              0
              Quote: alexmach
              As I understand it, we are still talking about TOU-2. The first TOU is probably already in the warehouses of the Americans do not have any

              The names "Tou-1" and "Tou-2" are very, very conditional.
              In fact, it all depends on missiles, and ammunition for the Tou-2 Ukrainians just will not pass.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 10 January 2018 01: 40
                0
                The TOW 2 militants have dofigischi, but they won’t give the Ukrainians, it’s strange - the missiles of this modification are in service mainly.
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 10 January 2018 00: 50
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          But their Americans certainly won’t deliver, the probability that Russia will have algorithms is too high.

          Yo mine! But what's the secret ?! By the way ... back in the USSR, they worked on warheads that hit an armored target with a cumulative jet or an impact core at the top.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 10 January 2018 08: 00
            0
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            Oh my! What's the secret?

            The fuse, receiving data from a height sensor and a magnetic sensor, detonates the warhead. Knowing the algorithms for evaluating the data obtained by this fuse, you can create protection that will cost a penny with an efficiency close to 100%
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 10 January 2018 09: 28
              +1
              Similar fuses can receive "data" not only from a "height sensor" (laser altimeter) and a magnetic sensor (magnetometer), but also from a thermal (infrared) sensor .... the use of a radiometric sensor is also possible. So ... " the kitchen is pretty well known! It’s hard to classify something too "too"!
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 10 January 2018 16: 43
                0
                Oh you ... By what principle the system will distinguish the can. hatch from the tank in the trench?
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 9 January 2018 19: 15
        +3
        Quote: Professor
        Javelin is a completely different story ..

        And under them there are qualified military men who are able to use this nifiga not a cheap device?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 9 January 2018 19: 22
          +4
          And there is no big mind. The operators of the second generation complex are much more difficult to prepare.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 9 January 2018 20: 58
            +2
            Quote: Spade
            And there is no big mind. The operators of the second generation complex are much more difficult to prepare.

            I wouldn’t trust the crystal genital organ to all those with their qualifications, not like a device of 200 thousand Baku.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 9 January 2018 21: 26
              0
              They will sell it.
              But this is exactly what we need. Tula with Kolomna at a low start. As well as the developers of new KOEP and KAZ
            2. Korax71
              Korax71 10 January 2018 09: 43
              0
              And what is the fundamental difference in the preparation of ours and the university? The school is one and the same. Or do you think now they prepare such a specialist that he is a US marine for breakfast, and bites into a spring with a green beret. Based on what are these conclusions ???
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 10 January 2018 13: 44
                +2
                Quote: Korax71
                on the basis of what such conclusions ???

                Based on the fact that Donbass has not been able to take it for 4 years ... to remind you who is fighting against the APU, miners, drivers, etc. ... there’s zero conclusion-training ...
                Quote: Korax71
                But what is the fundamental difference in the preparation of ours and the university? The school is one and the same. Or do you think now they cook such a special for a year that he is a US marine for breakfast and bites into a spring with a green beret.

                Based on the fact that we cleared Syria for 2 years, and if you imagine for a second that the APU would be doing this, what do you think, what would happen to this unfortunate Syria now?
      3. Rusland
        Rusland 9 January 2018 19: 16
        +8
        Quote: Professor
        Quote: Rusland
        Radish horseradish is not sweeter. Just start, and everything will go there.

        Do not confuse something with a finger. Tou is a dinosaur. In Ukraine, its ATGMs are no worse. Javelin is a completely different story ..

        I am about the principle, and you are about the details, look wider. And about your fingers, tell your friends over a glass of tea. hi
      4. SPACE
        SPACE 9 January 2018 19: 23
        +4
        Quote: Professor
        Javelin is a completely different story ..

        And what's the story? Right now I guess: "shot and forgot" laughing Spontaneously near-dark experts have always been amused by these widely advertised devices such as javelins and all other electronic iPhone helpers, it's still not long-range Iskander and Topol, but on the battlefield you need not only to observe where you are shooting and in real time to monitor and evaluate the defeat process, otherwise it will turn out like in this joke: I shot and forgot, and from there 125 mm high explosive parasite from above and flew wassat even mine warriors played with laughter fear him.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 9 January 2018 19: 37
          +2
          Quote: SPACE
          And what's the story? Right now I guess: "shot and forgot"

          In fact, the problem is not in the “shot-forgot”, but in two things - hitting the target from above and the infrared seeker.
          The tanks currently available in Russia are poorly protected from the former, but not from the latter. And the “Curtains” in service, on the contrary, help the “Javelin” get in.
          1. SPACE
            SPACE 9 January 2018 20: 13
            0
            Quote: Spade
            In fact, the problem is not in the “shot-forgot”, but in two things - hitting the target from above and the infrared seeker.

            The missile is very slow for 10 seconds of flight, you can put a cloud five times or use a TDA, leave for cover if there is a milimeter range radar or laser optical suppression means like on Chinese tanks on the battlefield, you can detect and warn. You can equip the top of the DZ tower, and if you equip a KAZ like the Israeli Trophy, the javelin has no chance at all, besides the restrictions when using on rough terrain, including when starting, you need to cool the homing head for a long time before firing, while the complex is wildly expensive. I think the Americans do not deliver the Javelin to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, since all these shortcomings will be revealed and another beautiful American myth about the miracle of weapons will crumble.
            P / S / If I had to choose, I chose the wired Hardware! And the best anti-tank complex in the world is Chrysanthemum!
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 9 January 2018 20: 47
              +2
              Quote: SPACE
              The rocket is very slow 10 seconds of flight, you can put a cloud five times or use the TDA, move to cover

              Have you ever sat in a tank?

              Quote: SPACE
              and if you supply KAZ

              That is the problem. "And if you provide ..." They are not on tanks in the troops. But KOEP is outdated, and for some reason they are not going to change it. It’s not for nothing that the Syrians riveted a “birdhouse” on their knees, although they could just ask for the “Curtain” elements.
            2. Korax71
              Korax71 10 January 2018 09: 56
              0
              So all Ptur is subsonic. Is it slower than a Cornet or Spike. And if you are not aware, then DZ is only set at a certain thickness of the armor at the installation site. Long time to cook Ptur is 30-40 seconds to cool the homing ???? how long will it take to assemble the machine of the same cornet ??? how much time does the calculation after starting to sit in place and escort the rocket to the target? and at this time the calculation is the most vulnerable. will fly. no calculation, no rocket control. where will it fly then ????
          2. dvina71
            dvina71 9 January 2018 20: 22
            +2
            Quote: Spade
            In fact, the problem is not in “shot-forgot”, but in two things - hitting the target from above and the IRG

            In fact, J.’s problems are much wider .. The beginning of the time and distance of target acquisition. The distance is a maximum of 2 km, the time is at least 20 seconds .. Not counting the time for cooling .. And the direct visibility to capture .. And the very low flight speed of the rocket Is there too much if for an advanced ATGM?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 9 January 2018 20: 54
              0
              Quote: dvina71
              time not less than 20 sec

              Firstly, already 10 seconds. Secondly, this is not the “capture time”, this is the cooling time of the GOS before the capture.
              1. dvina71
                dvina71 9 January 2018 21: 37
                +1
                Quote: Spade
                Firstly, already 10 seconds. Secondly, this is not “capture time”, this is the cooling time of the GOS before

                Cooling up to a minute, depending on conditions. Capture can take a considerable amount of time. It also depends on the conditions. Too much if for the positioned best ptrk.

                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 9 January 2018 21: 56
                  0
                  Quote: dvina71
                  Cooling up to a minute, depending on conditions.

                  This is the cooling time of the thermal imager launcher. And this is not critical. Firstly, you can shoot without using it Secondly, it can work this way all the time. Unlike GOS, where cooling in 10 seconds, but only 50 cycles. After that, the unrefired missile must be sent to replace the GOS.
                  1. dvina71
                    dvina71 9 January 2018 23: 17
                    0
                    And it doesn’t bother you that all this time you need to spend in the line of sight of the target .... a tank that has a thermal imager, 14,5 mm and a land mine, whose flight speed is 1500 ms ... very promising for J operators .. I wonder .. do they even speed up with the launcher in time?
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 10 January 2018 08: 12
                      0
                      Quote: dvina71
                      And you do not mind that all this time you need to spend in the line of sight of the target ....

                      It doesn’t bother. Because this is not necessary. Both the cooling of the thermal imaging channel and the cooling of the seeker can be carried out in a shelter.
          3. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 10 January 2018 02: 02
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            Actually the problem is not in the "shot-forgot"

            And this is you in vain! At present, the concept of "shot and forgot" - "primary"; and the type of GOS on a rocket within the framework of this concept is, in a certain sense, “secondary!” First, the military raises a wave: we want .... we need a rocket "shot and forgot" ... give money for it !!! And, if the military’s desire is satisfied, then the question is often solved: what type of GOS to put on the device-IR-GOS, or AR-GOS ...
            Quote: Spade
            The tanks currently available in Russia are poorly protected from the former, but not from the latter.

            A few .... slurred! Well ... from protection from the top they are poorly protected: mainly DZ. (This is by armor ...) ... but from IR-GOS - in any way? And the fact that the "Cape" can be attributed to the means of protection against infrared seeker, you, for some reason, categorically reject? And the same "Blind" ... launchers with aerosol grenades are included in the complex. Judging by the descriptions, these grenades are "focused" on the "jamming" of laser radiation; but it is possible that they can shield the thermal radiation of the tank; moreover, aerosol grenades have been developed (and are being developed) for "different tastes": for protection against IKGSN and LGSN at the same time; for protection against IKGSN, LGSN, MM-ARGSN at the same time ... Of course, "Shtora" is significantly outdated ... IR illuminator " Curtains "designed primarily to protect against anti-tank missiles of the type" TOW "," 'HOT' ', Milan' 'early "releases". But was the question of upgrading the Curtain considered? Was the possibility of creating a pulsed, high-repetition IR illuminator that could blind the Javelin infrared imager ... a laser illuminator ... calculated?

            Quote: Spade
            And the “Curtains” in service, on the contrary, help the “Javelin” get in.

            belay This is how? what Where did you find such “crime" in "Shtor"? request
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 10 January 2018 08: 48
              +1
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              And this is you in vain! At present, the concept of "shot and forgot" - "primary";

              All this has nothing to do with the tank as a target. On the contrary, complexes of the first generation are much more dangerous, from which, under normal operators, even the most advanced and modern complexes of optoelectronic counteraction will not protect.

              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              And the fact that the "Cape" can be attributed to the means of protection against infrared seeker, you, for some reason, categorically reject?

              Yes, I reject. “Javelin” is only half a degree to capture the target.
              "Cape" in principle is not able to provide this, it has other tasks. Reducing the likelihood of detection and recognition with the help of thermal imagers, reducing the likelihood of being hit when shooting with a thermal imaging sight, etc.

              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              And the same "Blind" ... launchers with aerosol grenades are included in the complex. Judging by the descriptions, these grenades are "focused" on the "jamming" of laser radiation; but it is possible that they can shield the thermal radiation of the tank

              Put another crew member in the tank as a UV sensor missing from the Curtain?

              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              This is how? Where did you find such “crime" in "Shtor"?

              Emitters. Which oppose ATGMs with an optical coordinator like the same "Tou". And they work in a constant mode. They didn’t just do a bunch of ribs for cooling on them. Working emitters are almost guaranteed to allow the "Javelin" to easily capture the target, and then hit. And even a sharp shutdown will not help.
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 10 January 2018 14: 34
                +1
                [quote = Shovels] Emitters. . work in a constant mode. They didn’t just do a bunch of ribs for cooling on them. Working emitters are almost guaranteed to allow the "Javelin" to easily capture the target, and then hit [/ quot]
                Somewhat strange conclusion ... belay "Javelin" is aimed at the thermal "portrait" of the target, and not at the thermal "spot"! If the "Javelin", easily, is aimed at the emitter of the infrared searchlight "Curtains", then it will not be difficult to use heat traps to move the "javelin" to the side! Actually, it’s not happening as you imagine!
                [quote = Shovels] Yes, I reject. “Javelin” is only half a degree to capture the target.
                "Cape" in principle is not able to provide this, it has other tasks. Reducing the likelihood of detection and recognition using thermal imagers, reducing the likelihood of being hit when shooting with a thermal imaging sight, etc. [/ quote]
                And no one "guarantees" that the "Cape" 100% will protect the tank from the "javelin"! This shtukentsion reduces the thermal radiation of the tank by 2-3 times ... This means that the "Cape" can create a situation where the Vorosh will not be able to launch a rocket from a position favorable to it, but will have to start from a disadvantageous ... then it will be detected in a timely manner and destroyed ... if my memory serves me. Tank drivers "pass" the exercise: defeat the detected anti-tank systems ... by the way, now the projectile has "appeared": fragmentation-beam with the programming of the time of detonation.
                [quote = Lopatov] But this is in vain! At present, the concept of "shot and forgot" is "primary";
                All this has nothing to do with the tank as a target. On the contrary, complexes of the first generation are much more dangerous, from which, under normal operators, even the most advanced and modern complexes of optical-electronic countermeasures are not protected [/ quote]
                What are you talking about ?! belay Then, in your opinion, it turns out that it is more expedient for a "javelin" to attack the target in a direct attack! And this is with the "caliber" 127-mm and not very powerful warhead!
                [quote = Lopatov] Put another crew member in the tank as a UV sensor missing from the Curtain? [/ quote]
                But didn’t I mention the need to modernize the Curtains?
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 10 January 2018 17: 04
                  0
                  Quote: Nikolaevich I
                  Somewhat strange conclusion ... "Javelin" is aimed at the thermal "portrait" of the target, and not at the thermal "spot"!

                  Not a single electronic device has yet been pointed at the portrait. This is a full-fledged artificial intelligence. "Javelin" captures a set of n points with its IR signatures, which makes up a "pseudo-portrait". And with working emitters, at least two points exist. Yes, such that no fog, dust and aerosol interference will not interfere.

                  Quote: Nikolaevich I
                  This shtukentsiya reduces thermal radiation of the tank by 2-3 times ...

                  GOS spit on it

                  Quote: Nikolaevich I
                  What are you talking about ?!

                  That's what I say. "Shot-forgot" refers to the characteristics of an anti-tank weapon. That is, the safety of the calculation, the complexity of its training, fire performance.
                  And the tank, in fact, monographically, "shot-forgot," or "shot-did not forget." The attack path, the control system and the ability to counteract it, etc. are important to him.
                  You can recall the first versions of the Serbian heavy ATGM for the emirates. Rocket, IR / optics camera on it and fiber optic cable. Completely manual control. The cleanest first generation and almost complete guarantee of a tank defeat from above.
                  1. Nikolaevich I
                    Nikolaevich I 11 January 2018 01: 57
                    +1
                    Quote: Spade
                    Not a single electronic device has yet been pointed at the portrait. This is a full-fledged artificial intelligence.

                    “Full-fledged artificial intelligence” will turn out when the GOS can not only direct a missile at a target, but also scout and detect targets, conduct selection, and “make” a decision! Moreover, from all angles!

                    Quote: Spade
                    "Javelin" captures a set of n points with its IR signatures, which makes up a "pseudo-portrait".

                    Yo mine! So all the same “portrait”, albeit “pseudo”! I didn’t mean the photo of Britney Spears! Someone uses the expression: "contour", "silhouette" ..... Often, the expression "portrait" is used, referring to the signature of the target in a certain range ... spectrum.

                    Quote: Spade
                    And with working emitters, at least two points exist.

                    EKLMN! If the “javelin” so “eagerly” pecks at the heated curtains of the “Curtain” (!) Infrared projector, then what prevents us from using ordinary heat traps (simple and cheap) for successful (!) Fighting with the “javelin” ?!
                    Quote: Spade
                    GOS spit on it
                    Yo mine! And is that an "argument"?
                    Quote: Spade
                    "Shot-forgot" refers to the characteristics of an anti-tank weapon.
                    VZ is not only the characteristics of a PT-weapon (specific), but also the concept of the type of weapon!
                    Quote: Spade
                    the tank, in fact, monographically, "shot-forgot," or "shot-not forgot." The attack path, the control system and the ability to counteract it, etc. are important to him.

                    Stop stop! Where did we start? Do you remember ? I'm not there already! Did I argue that "the tank is monographically, and what is not"? I delved into the question: what is “more important” to the tank - “shot and forgot” ... or “shot-did not forget”? belay Too many “letters” have become ... the meaning of the discussion has begun to get lost ... Let's do this: you did not convince me, but I did! And we will remain with our opinions ... for the time being, for the time being ...
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 11 January 2018 10: 12
                      0
                      Quote: Nikolaevich I
                      “Full-fledged artificial intelligence” will turn out when the GOS can not only direct a missile at a target, but also scout and detect targets, conduct selection, and “make” a decision! Moreover, from all angles!

                      Working with the image as a whole, and not with a certain set of "control points" is also a full-fledged artificial intelligence

                      Quote: Nikolaevich I
                      Yo mine! So all the same “portrait”, albeit “pseudo”! I didn’t mean the photo of Britney Spears!

                      Oh Britney. Great example. Electronics for its recognition uses dozens of control points on the strength, using the ratio of the distances between them. You use millions, and at the same time it’s not a problem for you to “complete” the missing points in your imagination.

                      Quote: Nikolaevich I
                      EKLMN! If the “javelin” so “eagerly” pecks at the heated curtains of the “Curtain” (!) Infrared projector, then what prevents us from using ordinary heat traps (simple and cheap) for successful (!) Fighting with the “javelin” ?!

                      Can. Achieve constant radiation, constant hanging in the space around the tank and random movement. And the tank "Javelin" will not capture. Rather, it will capture and immediately lose due to a change in the "picture"
                      It’s just that it’s definitely not “simple and cheap” For the eyes of rather simpler systems used in “Armata”

                      Quote: Nikolaevich I
                      VZ is not only the characteristics of a PT-weapon (specific), but also the concept of the type of weapon!

                      No-eh ... This is the concept of using a human operator with these weapons. And the tank, as a target, is drummed up who keeps the PC on the trajectory, the operator (1st generation), the launcher automation or other external equipment (2nd generation), or the equipment directly on the rocket (3rd generation)
    4. jolly deckhand
      jolly deckhand 9 January 2018 18: 57
      +3
      Yeah, not sweeter ...
      Vsezh survived. And the tankers remained alive !!! But, essno, it’s better not to test our tanks in Donbass for strength .......
      1. Dezinto
        Dezinto 9 January 2018 21: 04
        +1
        50 alabars per second! laughing What do they have? is it believed that endless repetition somehow helps?
      2. vasya.pupkin
        vasya.pupkin 10 January 2018 12: 20
        +2
        Quote: jolly deckhand
        Yeah, not sweeter ...
        Vsezh survived. And the tankers remained alive !!! But, essno, it’s better not to test our tanks in Donbass for strength .......

        The video is good, but in the Donbass there’s no 90s. Only the 60s and 72s, unfortunately.
        If there were 90s, then you can break through here and there.
    5. tol100v
      tol100v 9 January 2018 19: 13
      0
      Quote: Rusland
      Horseradish radish is not sweet

      HB. / BU- and what to talk about next?
    6. Maz
      Maz 9 January 2018 19: 52
      0
      The problem for warrant officers vsu. Ptur tou heavy, infection. You can't carry it in a bag laughing
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 9 January 2018 20: 20
        +3
        Quote: Maz
        The problem for warrant officers vsu. Ptur tou heavy, infection. You can't carry it in a bag laughing

        From this he is no less deadly.
    7. Oleg7700
      Oleg7700 9 January 2018 22: 05
      0
      "The BGM-71F TOW2B was developed in 1992 with increased lethality in relation to tanks. The TOW2B missile attacks tanks from above. The TOW2B also has a dual-mode sensor and two new warheads. The TOW 2B missile is not intended to replace the TOW 2A, but to complement it. B In early 2002, Raytheon announced that the TOW 2B range was expanded from 4000 meters to 4500 meters. "
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 10 January 2018 02: 12
        +2
        Quote: Oleg7700
        "The BGM-71F TOW2B was developed in the 1992 year with an increased mortality rate for tanks. The TOW2B missile attacks tanks from above.

        But did the TOW-2B ship to the barmales? what So far, the TOW-2A is “on hearing”
        Quote: Oleg7700
        At the beginning of 2002, Raytheon announced that the TOW 2B range was expanded from 4000 meters to 4500 meters. "

        Most likely, this is a talk about a wireless (radio command) modification of TOW. These are definitely not delivered to Syria.
  2. garx
    garx 9 January 2018 18: 44
    19
    In my opinion, Russian intelligence more than Ukrainians were waiting for these javelins!
    1. 210ox
      210ox 9 January 2018 18: 49
      +1
      Yes, and then a bummer ... We have already opened a flea market and here .. sad
      Quote: garx
      In my opinion, Russian intelligence more than Ukrainians were waiting for these javelins!
    2. VAGNER
      VAGNER 9 January 2018 21: 33
      +2
      Quote: garx
      In my opinion, Russian intelligence more than Ukrainians were waiting for these javelins!

      And the militias ...)))) lol
    3. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 10 January 2018 02: 15
      +1
      Something I doubt that "Russian intelligence" did not "feel" these "javelins"!
  3. Strashila
    Strashila 9 January 2018 18: 44
    0
    So TOW is already in Ukraine ... such a conclusion from the message.
    1. q75agent
      q75agent 9 January 2018 18: 46
      +3
      the destroyer who now in Odessa could well bring
    2. Herculesic
      Herculesic 9 January 2018 18: 55
      +4
      Outside ukroine most likely there are javelins and TOU! I won’t even be a bit surprised if “spikes” “pop up” there! Everyone wants to test their offspring against our tanks, which, according to Ukrainian fairy tales, are massively hanging around throughout the territory of Ukraine.
  4. Kent0001
    Kent0001 9 January 2018 18: 45
    +3
    not .. well how? Etozh what for Ukrainians Zrada. The American TOU does not penetrate Moskal tanks (proved in Syria). Bummer on horses ... bummer and HIT.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 9 January 2018 18: 49
      +4
      Quote: Kent0001
      not .. well how? Etozh what for Ukrainians Zrada. The American TOU does not penetrate Moskal tanks (proved in Syria). Bummer on horses ... bummer and HIT.

      What? request
  5. Vadim851
    Vadim851 9 January 2018 18: 46
    +1
    To some extent even more dangerous - especially if you beat the fortifications, it’s still a heavy ATGM. And it’s much easier to handle.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 9 January 2018 18: 51
      +4
      It is heavy not in the sense of the power of action at the goal, but in the sense of weight.
      1. Professor
        Professor 9 January 2018 20: 27
        +3
        Quote: Spade
        It is heavy not in the sense of the power of action at the goal, but in the sense of weight.

        Not scary. Young ladies drag him when necessary.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 9 January 2018 21: 31
          +2
          I don’t know ... In the Russian army it is not customary to use young ladies as pack animals. Well, as a disposable anti-tank weapon (otherwise why do they have only one TPK)
          And about the weight ... I remember that in the mountains with the dragging of a much lighter “bassoon” there were problems
          1. Professor
            Professor 10 January 2018 08: 13
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            I don’t know ... In the Russian army it is not customary to use young ladies as pack animals. Well, as a disposable anti-tank weapon (otherwise why do they have only one TPK)
            And about the weight ... I remember that in the mountains with the dragging of a much lighter “bassoon” there were problems

            The photo shows that even the young ladies are able not only to transport this device, but also to use it. I can show photos with men from TOU. In the calculation of more than one ammunition and you are well aware of this.
            In general, in Tsakhal, TOU is exotic. He was replaced by more advanced and more easy Spike

            Quote: VAGNER
            Do you like to hang out in Israel .. Will you hide behind the girls ..? Aren't you ashamed ..?

            We are not hiding behind anyone. Our ladies with men have equal rights. Including service in combat units.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Stiletto_711
              Stiletto_711 10 January 2018 15: 56
              0
              The photo shows that even the young ladies are able not only to transport this device

              Ah, got it! TPK is empty! fellow
        2. VAGNER
          VAGNER 9 January 2018 21: 37
          +3
          Quote: Professor
          Quote: Spade
          It is heavy not in the sense of the power of action at the goal, but in the sense of weight.

          Not scary. Young ladies drag him when necessary.

          Do you like to hang out in Israel .. Will you hide behind the girls ..? Aren't you ashamed ..?
      2. Vadim851
        Vadim851 9 January 2018 21: 05
        +1
        Yes, I am mistaken, the warhead is relatively small there.
  6. Magic archer
    Magic archer 9 January 2018 18: 47
    +3
    Well, what can I say ... At least you won’t take Tou like Javelin on yourself! It’s too heavy. So they will install on what thread the chassis. And with such wunderwafes, the militias know what to do wink
  7. anjey
    anjey 9 January 2018 18: 48
    +1
    The United States is going to supply Ukraine anti-tank missile systems (ATGM) TOW
    APU - for the State Department at the level of the same Aboriginal and Barmalei igil and the same disposable if it really smells fried, so for shit and weapons like that ...
  8. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General 9 January 2018 18: 49
    +6
    Hahah, zrada zradnaya)))
    Grenades will put the wrong system))
  9. Lopatov
    Lopatov 9 January 2018 18: 49
    +4
    This is a zrad ...
    Kiev has its second-generation complexes by its head better than the Toe. It would be better if they gave money 8)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
  10. Andrey160479
    Andrey160479 9 January 2018 18: 50
    +1
    It's like in a joke about a bear, now he (the DPR army) will have a TOW.
  11. Egorovich
    Egorovich 9 January 2018 18: 50
    +2
    They decided to sell the dill already, but here the supplies are broken, and even the weapons of the wrong system. Again zrada!
  12. Herculesic
    Herculesic 9 January 2018 18: 51
    +7
    I won’t be amazed if this rumor deliberately spreads so that gullibles peck at it! I’m even sure that the Javelins already exist in Ukraine, only among American instructors who teach Natsik and who have the task to test complexes against our T90! Moreover, if TOU2 gets into ukroin, then these T72 B3 ATGMs and their slots between the dynamic protection, for example, will be easy to burn! The "budget" upgrade of the T72 tank in a real battle will come to us sideways, in the form of a pile of burnt cars!
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 9 January 2018 18: 52
      +2
      Quote: Herkulesich
      and having the task to test complexes against our T90!

      Was the problem in Syria to experience?
      1. Herculesic
        Herculesic 9 January 2018 19: 08
        +1
        Shovels -in Syria and so weapons in bulk. But it’s not strange to experience it, it’s easier just to be in the ukroin, because in Syria the operator could sell this ATGM to his fighter brothers, and they would have burned the same Iraqi abrams! And VNA ukroine, where not the flames, everywhere tanks made in the USSR or Russia! There are no abrams there, at least not yet.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 9 January 2018 19: 18
          +2
          Quote: Herkulesich
          because in Syria, the operator could sell this ATGM to his fellow brothers, and they would have burned the same Iraqi abrams!

          Just?
          On the one hand there’s a tank, on the other hand, an ATGM, which in Kolomna or Tula is being dismantled for spare parts. Syria is better.
  13. 1 Navigator
    1 Navigator 9 January 2018 19: 00
    0
    As always, the mattresses are heated. laughing
  14. Protos
    Protos 9 January 2018 19: 02
    0
    Quote: Herkulesich
    I won’t be amazed if this rumor deliberately spreads so that gullibles peck at it! I’m even sure that the Javelins already exist in Ukraine, only among American instructors who teach Natsik and who have the task to test complexes against our T90! Moreover, if TOU2 gets into ukroin, then these T72 B3 ATGMs and their slots between the dynamic protection, for example, will be easy to burn! The "budget" upgrade of the T72 tank in a real battle will come to us sideways, in the form of a pile of burnt cars!

    Yes, yes, we already saw on the censor a photo of 100500 burnt T72B3 and T90MS. wassat
    And not one irrevocable T90M in Syria laughing
    1. SOF
      SOF 9 January 2018 19: 19
      0
      Quote: Protos
      Yes, yes, we already saw on the censor a photo of 100500 burnt T72B3 and T90MS

      ... and no less than the T-14 company ... Only they “burned” them, according to reports of the epic heroes of Ukrinsk,
      1. LSA57
        LSA57 9 January 2018 20: 06
        +3
        Quote: SOF
        ... and no less than the T-14 company ... Only they “burned” them, according to reports of the epic heroes of Ukrinsk,

        and not only of them laughing
    2. Herculesic
      Herculesic 9 January 2018 19: 24
      +2
      Protos-I in Russian, isn’t it scary? So there’s simply no T90m in Syria, from the word in general! This is a modification, they say, only for "domestic use #! In Syria T90A!
  15. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 9 January 2018 19: 13
    +1
    The United States is going to supply Ukraine anti-tank missile systems (ATGM) TOW
    it means there will most likely be a war, the Americans from memory of 08 decided not to risk it
  16. Nemesis
    Nemesis 9 January 2018 19: 13
    0
    For old tanks used by LDNR and these ATGMs will be dangerous ...
    1. Kent0001
      Kent0001 9 January 2018 19: 33
      +1
      ATGMs, in principle, are dangerous for tanks — they are made for the destruction of tanks. This is so, by the way.
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 9 January 2018 21: 57
        0
        ATGMs are different, tanks, too, respectively, and the danger from different ATGMs for different tanks is different ...
  17. Lex.
    Lex. 9 January 2018 19: 18
    0
    Afraid that they will fall into the DNI and LC
  18. Simon
    Simon 9 January 2018 19: 24
    +2
    Well, again, some junk is being shed to Kiev! belay laughing
  19. Simon
    Simon 9 January 2018 19: 32
    +1
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    The United States is going to supply Ukraine anti-tank missile systems (ATGM) TOW
    it means there will most likely be a war, the Americans from memory of 08 decided not to risk it

    So they don’t believe the Kiev warriors, again they’ll get into some kind of boiler laughing Those are still warriors! Only civilians can fight, shelling them with artillery!
  20. Ferdinant
    Ferdinant 9 January 2018 19: 34
    0
    A country with a shrunken roof will still be stolen
  21. Simon
    Simon 9 January 2018 19: 35
    +1
    Quote: Andrey160479
    It's like in a joke about a bear, now he (the DPR army) will have a TOW.

    Yeah! And they say that Russia delivered! recourse
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 10 January 2018 02: 23
      +1
      Nah .... but what? In Syria, Assad’s army captured a decent amount of TOW ... is it difficult to do something with the Syrians? wink
  22. Dormidont
    Dormidont 9 January 2018 19: 37
    0
    What will be put on the outskirts for sure is flint muskets
  23. bald
    bald 9 January 2018 19: 53
    0
    People decide everything, preparation, purpose, and not some sort of "grenade launchers".
  24. Maz
    Maz 9 January 2018 19: 56
    0
    Quote: Aaron Zawi
    Quote: Kent0001
    not .. well how? Etozh what for Ukrainians Zrada. The American TOU does not penetrate Moskal tanks (proved in Syria). Bummer on horses ... bummer and HIT.

    What? request

    Well, byvat, what really
  25. Maz
    Maz 9 January 2018 19: 59
    0
    Quote: Magic Archer
    Well, what can I say ... At least you won’t take Tou like Javelin on yourself! It’s too heavy. So they will install on what thread the chassis. And with such wunderwafes, the militias know what to do wink

    You do not rejoice, under the brand of Tou, Tou-2 can easily be dragged.
  26. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 9 January 2018 20: 02
    0
    In Ukrainian Universities, it seems that the self-developed stugna and corsair, at least in the atomic zone, are already being delivered
  27. alexmach
    alexmach 9 January 2018 20: 12
    0
    Hehe. Have I just said something recently?
    Although yes it’s perfectly true that
    Radish horseradish is not sweeter. Just start, and everything will go there.
  28. Thracian warrior
    Thracian warrior 9 January 2018 21: 22
    0
    Quote: jolly deckhand

    Vsezh survived. And the tankers remained alive !!! But, essno, it’s better not to test our tanks in Donbass for strength .......
    In the Donbass, our tanks are not. (Putin).
  29. demo
    demo 9 January 2018 21: 30
    +1
    Is it "overwhelming"?
  30. Lena Petrova
    Lena Petrova 9 January 2018 22: 00
    +1
    Quote: DEZINTO
    What do they have? is it believed that endless repetition somehow helps?

    So there is escort of the shot. If you are silent, then the charge does not know whether it flies correctly.
  31. Dembel77
    Dembel77 9 January 2018 22: 04
    0
    Trump is going to approve the supply of $ 47 million anti-tank weapons to Ukraine.
    This is the whole essence of the United States, the warlike policy of which is to incite civil wars in the territories of countries with an unacceptable government (naturally not acceptable only for the United States). Now they will pile weapons into Ukraine, which is cheaper, let the Slavs kill the Slavs. The Americans are great experts in raking heat with the wrong hands.
  32. Zomanus
    Zomanus 9 January 2018 23: 39
    0
    Well, Toe is not much worse for us than Javelin.
    And even more so for the armies of the republics.
    And what about Azov’s account, so Natsik will take them for himself and
    they won’t ask anyone. There, and before the drone drone,
    like the ones in Syria recently beaten. near.
  33. 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 10 January 2018 00: 32
    +1
    Honestly, these Javelins already got it. I think that if it were hot, they would have repeated it a long time ago. That's just the price-performance ratio they have no. Range with disgusting ergonomics of 2 km as in Metis m (with tandem warhead). Launch conditions are worse than laser-guided systems. (flat field, clear good day) The warhead is weak compared to the TOU, it is only suitable to hit the roof if it hits and if they give it to you, since the modification for hitting from above is much more expensive. Very slow flight and intolerance to aerosol interference. By the way, I have not seen a single real application. Very similar to another ad for the wunderwaffle.
    1. Professor
      Professor 10 January 2018 08: 47
      +1
      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      I think that if it had been hot, they would have repeated it long ago.

      Yeah. We dispersed, created an advanced industry and repeated.
      https://topwar.ru/35933-kriticheskie-tehnologiche
      skie-trudnosti-pri-razrabotke-ptrk-dzhavelin.html


      https://topwar.ru/36041-kriticheskie-tehnologiche
      skie-trudnosti-pri-razrabotke-ptrk-jhavelin-chas
      t-2.html

      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      That's just the price-performance ratio they have no.

      Javelin, Command and Launch Unit (PBC) M98A1. Price - $ 126'000 (2002 g.)
      Javelin, A missile in a transport and launch container and a power supply and cooling unit. Price - $ 78'000 (2002 g.)
      Tank T-90. Price $ 4'000'000 (2011 g.)

      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      Range with disgusting ergonomics 2 km like Metis m (with tandem warhead).

      Ergonomics Javelina is very successful allowing you to shoot from a standing position, sitting and lying down. The CPB is generally very popular among the troops and is used even without a rocket.
      M98A1 Command and Launcher Unit (PBC): Weight — 6.42 kg, including battery, carrying bag, and cleaning kit. (Battery weight - 1.0 kg)
      Dimensions (LxWxH) —348.2x499.1x338.8 mm

      Missile in the transport and launch container and power supply and cooling unit: Weight— 15.97 kg
      Length - 1209 mm, Diameter with plug - 298.5 mm

      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      Launch conditions are worse than laser-guided systems. (flat field, clear good day)

      Quite the contrary. A dark night is much better for GOS than a clear day. About a flat field I won’t even comment.

      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      The warhead is weak in comparison with the TOU, it is only suitable to hit the roof if it hits and if they give it to you, since the modification for hitting from above is much more expensive.

      The warhead is weaker so any roof is always weaker protected than the frontal armor of the tank. There are no modifications for a slide with a slide and in the forehead. The operator himself selects the shooting mode.

      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      Very slow flight and intolerance to aerosol interference.

      The speed of the flight corresponds to the target being destroyed. Tanks are even slower than a rocket:
      Javelin: Flight time - about 4.6 seconds to a distance of 1000 meters; 14.5 seconds on 2000 meters.
      Information about “intolerance to aerosol interference” was not received from reliable sources.

      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      By the way, I have not seen a single real application.


      Let the seeker find.
      https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jave
      lin + missile + in + afghanistan +

      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      Very similar to another ad for the wunderwaffle.

      Materiel however.
      https://topwar.ru/35953-srednyaya-broneboynaya-or
      uzheynaya-sistema-javelin.html
      1. Stiletto_711
        Stiletto_711 10 January 2018 16: 07
        0
        Quote: Professor
        Quote: 1c-inform-city
        That's just the price-performance ratio they have no.
        Javelin, Command and Launch Unit (PBC) M98A1. Price - $ 126'000 (2002 g.)
        Javelin, A missile in a transport and launch container and a power supply and cooling unit. Price - $ 78'000 (2002 g.)
        Tank T-90. Price $ 4'000'000 (2011 g.)

        Yeah, only with Metis-M1 is it even more profitable! fellow

        1. Professor
          Professor 10 January 2018 18: 59
          +1
          Quote: Stilett_71
          Yeah, only with Metis-M1 is it even more profitable!

          RPG-7 is even more profitable. If you get to the right place. And if you stay alive.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 10 January 2018 22: 52
            0
            This tip got not into the tank, but into parked cars.
            1. Professor
              Professor 11 January 2018 08: 11
              0
              Quote: Vadim237
              This tip got not into the tank, but into parked cars.

              And so the tank exploded? request
  34. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 10 January 2018 01: 06
    +1
    ISIS did not help and ISIS will not help.
  35. Dzungar
    Dzungar 10 January 2018 08: 09
    0
    It’s necessary to dispose of large TOU stockpiles somewhere .....
  36. lieutenant colonel
    lieutenant colonel 10 January 2018 09: 07
    0
    It was worth McCain to go into another world ... and on you !! ... I mean - to hell with you, not with the javelins.
  37. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 10 January 2018 14: 02
    0
    I think it would be comical to put TOU (captured in Syria in decent quantities) in the DPR / LPR ... for the sake of completeness.