Military Review

SpaceX launched a secret satellite into orbit in the interests of the US government

279
Launcher Falcon 9 launched from Cape Canaveral with a secret satellite Zuma for the US government, reports TASS.




“This is the first launch of SpaceX in 2018, it was made from the US Air Force base at Cape Canaveral in a previously specially designated two-hour segment. Information about what functions the satellite performs is not distributed, ”the article says.

It is also unknown which agency, civil or military, is related to the Zuma mission.



It is reported that “Falcon 9 started approximately in 20: 00 (04: 00 on Monday Moscow time). After eight minutes, the first step of the carrier in an upright position safely descended to a special landing site. ”

According to the agency, the launch was to take place as early as November, but was repeatedly postponed for various reasons.

Earlier, in May 2017, SpaceX launched a device for the US National Intelligence Agency.
Photos used:
http://www.globallookpress.com
279 comments
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  1. Vadim851
    Vadim851 8 January 2018 12: 07
    12
    The rocket really turned out good and reliable, since such launches are trusted. Prior to this, the Boeing X-37 was launched.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 8 January 2018 12: 11
      +7
      Ordinary rocket. Nothing supernatural. Only her one strangeness is observed. Whatever the start, the transfer.
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 8 January 2018 12: 13
        24
        Great rocket! Well done Musk! I applaud while standing!
        1. Spartanez300
          Spartanez300 8 January 2018 12: 16
          13
          Something I don’t see here is good news for us, you have not confused the country where you write comments for an hour.
          1. sabakina
            sabakina 8 January 2018 12: 49
            13
            He did not confuse. just xetai9977 rejoices that we feel bad.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
            2. figwam
              figwam 8 January 2018 14: 11
              +2
              sabakina

              Yes, he is glad that our country did back in 1957, for them this is an achievement.
            3. a.sirin
              a.sirin 8 January 2018 16: 36
              +2
              And what's bad?
          2. igorka357
            igorka357 8 January 2018 13: 08
            +2
            This user is openly happy about the failures of Russia, he is a clear enemy and Troll.
            1. Dreamboat
              Dreamboat 8 January 2018 13: 29
              +2
              Some people don’t understand (2 specific scribblers from neighboring countries) that if suddenly Russia doesn’t or it critically weakens, then in a year there will be no countries like Azerbaijan and Armenia, there will be one big Turkey ...
            2. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 8 January 2018 14: 01
              17
              Quote: igorka357
              This user is openly happy about the failures of Russia, he is a clear enemy and Troll.

              And what is the failure of Russia from the fact that Musk built a good rocket? what
              1. figwam
                figwam 8 January 2018 14: 14
                +2
                Aaron Zawi

                The rocket was built by specialists, and he is just a PR man and makes loot, but not very successfully.
                1. ZVO
                  ZVO 8 January 2018 15: 44
                  12
                  Quote: figvam
                  Aaron Zawi

                  The rocket was built by specialists, and he is just a PR man and makes loot, but not very successfully.


                  Have you ever managed anything? Anything more serious than a construction team?
                  Apparently not.
                  Believe me - even 10 of the smartest engineers and developers - this is a complete zero, without a high-quality manager.
                  They are cogs that are unable to do anything on their own, without a competent statement of the task to each or a group, without creating the conditions for their joint work, without monitoring activities, without analyzing their work and their successes and failures.
                  How many smart little specialists were fired and trampled only because they simply do not know how to work in a team, or in a time frame

                  That manager / leader who can unleash the potential of each super-specialist for the sake of his task, we know. Korolev, Chelomei - these were the managers in fact ... who managed KB teams.

                  Musk is the same manager.
                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack 8 January 2018 16: 04
                    +5
                    Quote: ZVO
                    even 10 of the smartest engineers and developers is a complete zero, without a high-quality manager

                    Right.
                    And this "manager" is called the "project manager." Or Project Manager in angelic. PM. Almost like a gun laughing
                    By the way, he is not engaged in "competent task setting for each or a group." Groups are led by team leaders.
                    It may even be “off topic” of some technical (and other) project details. But the responsibility for the project as a whole is on it.
                    Quote: ZVO
                    Musk is the same manager

                    Confusing pedals. Musk to develop in general "not a single limb". He works in a different department - marketing and sales. And that's why it's called Sales & Marketing Manager.
                    Although, yes - also a manager yes
                    But before PM, he, as before ... Mars request
                    1. ZVO
                      ZVO 8 January 2018 16: 12
                      +3
                      Quote: Golovan Jack
                      Quote: ZVO
                      even 10 of the smartest engineers and developers is a complete zero, without a high-quality manager

                      Right.
                      And this "manager" is called the "project manager." Or Project Manager in angelic. PM. Almost like a gun laughing
                      Incidentally, he does not engage in "competent task setting for each or a group." Groups are led by team leaders.
                      Quote: ZVO
                      Musk is the same manager

                      Confusing pedals. Musk to develop in general "not a single limb". He works in a different department - marketing and sales. And that's why it's called Sales & Marketing Manager.
                      Although, yes - also a manager yes
                      But before PM, he, as before ... Mars request


                      Musk is a manager managing PMs ...
                      Do you understand the difference?
                      He sets the tasks of PMs, which subsequently implement his tasks through smart nerds ...
                      He controls the PMs. He analyzes their activities, he has a bunch of consuls who can "open" each group of each PM.
                      He is at the top of the pyramid.
                      He is a real manager.

                      It is unfortunate that in Russia the phrase "effective manager" has become abusive because of our illiterate thief.
                      For there are just managers and there are truly effective ones.
                      The mask is correct and effective.
                      1. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 8 January 2018 16: 48
                        0
                        Musk General Designer at SpaceX
                    2. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 8 January 2018 18: 44
                      +3
                      "But to him, as before ... Mars" - So his space transport system will fly to Mars by 2030.
                  2. Lycan
                    Lycan 8 January 2018 16: 14
                    0
                    And even Prokhorov with his y-may-mobile wassat
                    1. ZVO
                      ZVO 8 January 2018 17: 20
                      +2
                      Quote: Lycan
                      And even Prokhorov with his y-may-mobile wassat


                      Prokhorov had a good concept ...
                      And it could work, but not in the Russian Federation.
                      And in another country.
                      For there are developing countries. where everyone wants to buy something wrong. that is enough for him, but more pathos for less money.
                      We even have a really excellent Vesta - it causes rejection among residents of large cities ...
                      In the same India, the same TATA for 1500 bucks - shot ...

                      National features.
                  3. figwam
                    figwam 8 January 2018 20: 13
                    +1
                    ZVO

                    Korolev and Chelomey were experts in their field and worked all their lives in this field, moreover for an idea, and this one grabbed for all projects both for space with Mars and for transporting passengers and for electric cars, being not a specialist in any field. All these projects are bought up and wrung out from other companies with the support of the government, untwisted to attract money. Musk is a modern Ostap Bender who knows 1000 ways to honestly withdraw money from other companies.
              2. KaPToC
                KaPToC 8 January 2018 15: 28
                +7
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                And what is the failure of Russia from the fact that Musk built a good rocket?

                Soyuz spaceship delivered three members of new expedition to ISS
                Che, I do not see winning reports from all sorts of enemies like xetai9977 about this.
              3. igorka357
                igorka357 9 January 2018 02: 54
                +1
                Aron, what does your comment have to do with it, you seem to be mistaken when addressing it to me, Musk built a rocket, well ... but this comrade always writes laudatory odes to the West for his successes, and always rejoices at the Russian failures .. so you were mistaken by writing the answer to my comment! You will not see the comments of this troll on unsuccessful launches or catastrophes of NASA, but when our rockets do not fly or fall, this comrade excuse me ejaculates with joy!
              4. Elena Zakharova
                Elena Zakharova 9 January 2018 18: 24
                +1
                A good rocket from Mask, along with a multi-billion dollar satellite, now feeds fish on the ocean floor.
            3. ZVO
              ZVO 8 January 2018 15: 37
              11
              Quote: igorka357
              This user is openly happy about the failures of Russia, he is a clear enemy and Troll.


              The enemy of Russia is the one who clearly rejoices at the failures of the enemy, not noticing the failures of his country.
              For our space industry has lost everything it could from the Soviet backlog.
              But she had all the trump cards.
              She has always been in demand. both in the 90s and 2000s.
              Our space industry has always been on a horse.
              She did not collapse like that. how everyone else collapsed.
              The whole world needed to launch satellites, and everyone then went either to us, or to the Americans, or to the French.
              We had the vast majority of launches. several times more than theirs. put together.
              But we all ... erred.
              If you look at the end of 2017.

              They developed and make a billionth profit.
              We tack at the level of profitability ..
              And taking into account insurance payments to insurers and a huge number of accidents - in fact, we are deeply in the cons.
              This is really the situation.

              There are 2 ways.
              First.
              Continue to live as it is. And in the end, after 2 years we will be happy about 1 successful launch out of 10.
              Or burn out all this gang-fraternity, which sits on kickbacks, cuts, nepotism - with a proud look of "we work for space." The proud look has remained since the 60s, but the mind is gone.
              And knowledge is gone, and skills are gone.
              Second.
              Learn from the mask. NASA, the Chinese. the Japanese. even the Lopoto and Bormoto tribe ...
              And to study and study again and again.
          3. citizen242
            citizen242 8 January 2018 13: 22
            +5
            Something I don’t see here is good news for us, you did not confuse the country where you write comments for an hour
            We must work, but gloat like ..... We don’t do it ourselves so we want others to feel bad, even worse than ours.
            1. Korax71
              Korax71 8 January 2018 14: 37
              +7
              Inspired. Grandfather caught a goldfish, and she says, let me go, grandfather! I will fulfill any desire. And he answers her. Yes, I have a cow dead. The fish asks if the cow needs a new one? No !!!!! I want and the neighbor’s cow died.
          4. Proxima
            Proxima 8 January 2018 14: 50
            +1
            The good news for us is that Musk, using NASA money, is fooling Americans with completely unpromising projects. Take, at least, the notorious vertically sitting down 1st step. What did he invent the bike? Such experiments were conducted in the 70s in the USSR and the USA. Both sides quickly turned it all away due to THEIR FULL HOPELESS. Many problems opened up. The most important is a big REDUCTION OF USEFUL LOAD. I agree that for American housewives it all looks spectacular and they will "tear their wallets" more than once and pay this scam to his scam. But in practice, it's all a bluff.
            Quote: Spartanez300
            Something I don’t see here is good news for us, you have not confused the country where you write comments for an hour.
        2. Proxima
          Proxima 8 January 2018 13: 23
          +6
          Quote: xetai9977
          Great rocket! Well done Musk! I applaud while standing!

          You can only applaud the mask for the stupid adventurism. Falcon 9 unpromising rocket. 9 engines for the first stage is a bit much. A large proportion of accidents also happens for engine malfunctions. Even Musk is aware of this. It is not surprising that he has already 2 times initiated court decisions to ban the sale of RD-180, which Falcon 9 engines are not suitable for.
          Further, this "Martian" adventurer will never succeed in certifying the Falcon 9 for manned flights. It's one thing for NASA money to indulge in iron, and another thing to kill astronauts. NASA is also well aware of this and therefore their statements on this subject are extremely cautious.
          And about pampering with reusability of the first stage - this is generally complete nonsense - a separate topic for discussion.
          1. Dreamboat
            Dreamboat 8 January 2018 13: 34
            +8
            In vain you are, this is a very large-scale research project on reusable ships. Commercially, he does not fight back, of course, but for a country that produces money, these are trifles. But the work for the future is serious. Maybe all this will not shoot, or maybe in 50 years they will only fly like that.
            Tsialkovsky and Korolev were also long considered dreamers ...
            1. Proxima
              Proxima 8 January 2018 14: 26
              +1
              Quote: Dreamboat
              Tsialkovsky and Korolev were also long considered dreamers ...

              Also me, compared belay two great scientists and a semi-literate con-adventurer!
              1. vadsonen
                vadsonen 8 January 2018 15: 00
                +7
                Also, they compared the belay of two great scientists and a semi-literate con-adventurer!

                Musk is not a scientist - he is an entrepreneur, and does exactly what a person in this profession should do. And does it very well.
                But in today's Russia, there are no Tsiolkovsky and Korolevs. There are only Rogozins. That’s who the real "adventurer con" is.
                1. Dreamboat
                  Dreamboat 8 January 2018 15: 15
                  +4
                  Rogozin for “your flag” is of course an enemy and a fraud, as it destroys the system of destruction and degradation of the Russian military industry created by the “friends of Russia” ...
                2. Proxima
                  Proxima 8 January 2018 16: 19
                  +1
                  Quote: vadsonen
                  Also, they compared the belay of two great scientists and a semi-literate con-adventurer!

                  Musk is not a scientist - he is an entrepreneur, and does exactly what a person in this profession should do. And does it very well. .

                  How can you do something well if you have an amateurish idea about it? I will give a post that was higher:

                  Quote: ZVO
                  Believe me - even 10 of the smartest engineers and developers - this is a complete zero, without a high-quality manager.
                  They are cogs that are unable to do anything on their own, without a competent statement of the task to each or a group, without creating the conditions for their joint work, without monitoring activities, without analyzing their work and their successes and failures.
                  How many smart little specialists were fired and trampled only because they simply do not know how to work in a team, or in a time frame

                  That manager / leader who can unleash the potential of each super-specialist for the sake of his task, we know. Korolev, Chelomei - these were the managers in fact ... who managed KB teams.

                  Musk is the same manager.
                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack 8 January 2018 16: 53
                    +5
                    Quote: Proxima
                    How can you do something well if you have an amateurish idea about it?

                    Something like this:
                    Quote: ZVO
                    Musk ... sets the tasks of PM-am, which subsequently implement his tasks through smart nerds ...
                    He controls the PMs. He analyzes their activities, he has a bunch of consuls who can "open" each group of each PM.

                    I translate: the work of the Mask is:
                    - voice “Wishlist” (role - Customer, or Client)
                    - regularly throw loot "into the furnace" (without this, no one will work).
                    Everything else is done for him. PM s and "consuls".
                    PM is a person able to manage a project and responsible for the status of this project.
                    "Consul" (consultant) is a person who has good, solid knowledge of the subject of development.
                    All request
                  2. vadsonen
                    vadsonen 8 January 2018 16: 57
                    +6
                    How can you do something well if you have an amateurish idea about it?

                    Doesn't the result speak for itself? Launching a rocket into space is by no means trivial! Imagine yourself in his place (I’m not saying that you are inferior in something) - it’s even difficult to start such a business.
                    The mediocre madman Musk did this: (1) he got excited by the idea (2) found out what kind of specialists are needed for this (3) found these people and put them together (4) knocked out a lot of big money for it (5) decided a billion organizational issues. After all, mego did not have its own Roskosmos for a start. Nothing at all.
                    As a result, the rocket is built, launched, orders are in advance.
                  3. ZVO
                    ZVO 8 January 2018 17: 33
                    +3
                    Quote: Proxima

                    How can you do something well if you have an amateurish idea about it? I will give a post that was higher:



                    Believe me, but if you manage something, you for some time begin to very well understand the essence of the issues.
                    Because all the problems flock to you.
                    And you take part in solving precisely the Problems.
                    You study the Internet, you communicate with knowledgeable people. bypassing subordinates.
                    But your expanded horizons very often provide solutions.
                    Read Asimov. About the mnemonic service.
                    Most really smart managers are just mnemonics.
                    They do not remember where and what they learned. they just know how to accumulate information and use it at the right time.
                    That is why I believe that super-specialists are the lowest level. Very narrow, unable to do anything on their own. But they are needed.
                    As a carpenter, you need highly specialized. but the best of its kind is the hammer. saw, a nail.
                    A brilliant boy - the essence of the nail, the essence of the saw, the essence of the hammer.
                    And all his genius depends on 100% only on what kind of managerial hands he is in.

                    Yes.
                    You can buy a hammer for 100 rubles. possible for 3000 wheels.
                    But here it depends on the task and the corresponding manager ...

                    I think I clearly explained?
              2. Dreamboat
                Dreamboat 8 January 2018 16: 32
                +3
                I did not compare people, I compared the attitude of others from them.
                And the main idea was not in this, but in the fact that someone should check even unreasonable ideas, the elemental base is changing quickly, and what was recognized as unpromising 20-30 years ago today can work out.
                I do not believe in the commercial success of the Falcon 9 (this is cheap PR), but a practical test of the concept is a good thing - let the Americans work ....
              3. ZVO
                ZVO 8 January 2018 18: 12
                0
                Quote: Proxima
                Quote: Dreamboat
                Tsialkovsky and Korolev were also long considered dreamers ...

                Also me, compared belay two great scientists and a semi-literate con-adventurer!

                Queens was a scientist. or is it still the manager who managed the huge KB?
          2. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 8 January 2018 13: 35
            +8
            There were 47 Falcon-9 launches, the problem was with only 1 Marilyn engine for all these launches. That is, 1 to 470. (On Falcon-9, 9 Marilyn engines in the first, and one in the second) Despite the problem in the launch, Falcon-9 successfully brought the Dragon truck into orbit, but had to lose a side load. That is, the reliability is quite high so that it does not soar about. After all, the engines already in 47 launches have never created a situation for the use of CAC on Dragon 2.
            1. Dreamboat
              Dreamboat 8 January 2018 16: 36
              +1
              There were 2 unsuccessful launches, one with the explosion of an entire rocket. There were still a number of unsuccessful descents, 5 were recognized, but there is information about 10-12, the first step simply fell not to the site, but earlier ....
              So reliability is very so-so ....
              1. Blackmokona
                Blackmokona 8 January 2018 19: 07
                0
                In those accidents there was no engine fault. Landings of steps on launches do not affect, if the client is satisfied with the load in orbit, he does not pay for landing
          3. Vadim237
            Vadim237 8 January 2018 13: 57
            +5
            Mask is still ahead, you don’t have to worry about him - he will succeed, as he strives for this.
          4. Topgun
            Topgun 8 January 2018 15: 13
            0
            ask how many engines in the Union ...
            1. Proxima
              Proxima 8 January 2018 15: 43
              +1
              Quote: Topgun
              ask how many engines in the Union ...

              Why be interested when you can know this. At the first and second stage of the "Union" - 5 engines. A lot of?
              1. Topgun
                Topgun 8 January 2018 18: 48
                0
                i.e. not 1
                I will explain the thought
                IMHO the most reliable stage is either 1RD (Zenit 2 first stage example) or the number of taxiways that allows you to continue the mission if 1RD fails (Falcon 9 first stage)
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 9 January 2018 05: 50
                  0
                  If its failure is an explosion, the mission will end immediately, therefore Falcon is not suitable for launching people and especially valuable cargo.
        3. 73bor
          73bor 8 January 2018 23: 36
          0
          Musk, what does it have to do with it? All launches are funded by DARPA, do not be Musk a relative of someone and did not let him go there!
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 8 January 2018 12: 14
        20
        "Whatever the start, the transfer." ///

        But a record low accident rate. And as a result - the turn to launch satellites on
        3 years in advance.
        1. Vadim851
          Vadim851 8 January 2018 12: 18
          +2
          It's right. For a week of transfer, the lost cannot be restored
        2. Muvka
          Muvka 8 January 2018 12: 19
          +6
          No, normal. Like the Union. Nothing record.
          1. 73bor
            73bor 8 January 2018 23: 38
            0
            And judging by the photo he is "Union" (in general, it will be waist-deep)!
        3. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 8 January 2018 12: 21
          +9
          Quote: voyaka uh
          But the record low accident rate

          IMHO just statistics "have not collected" yet.
          Case ... profitable request
          Miracles do not happen, always over time, that thread breaks.
        4. Dreamboat
          Dreamboat 8 January 2018 13: 36
          +1
          If you count the unsuccessful return of the 1st stage (i.e., the full cycle), then the statistics are so-so ...
          1. 73bor
            73bor 8 January 2018 23: 42
            0
            And did anyone count how many times this step flew again? In my opinion, behind the loud slogans - "American cosmonautics is the advanced detachment of capitalism"! small nuances just disappeared.
      3. Vadim851
        Vadim851 8 January 2018 12: 14
        +1
        Carriers yes, they are decent. It’s better not to rush. It’s unusual that the company developed so quickly.
      4. Gardamir
        Gardamir 8 January 2018 12: 25
        +9
        Whatever the start, the transfer.
        patriotism is not that others feel bad; patriotism is that it is always good in one’s country.
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 8 January 2018 12: 27
          +2
          And where did you see something patriotic in my proposal? I just made my observation. I didn’t watch the launches, they were constantly postponed.
        2. sabakina
          sabakina 8 January 2018 12: 55
          +7
          Quote: Gardamir
          patriotism is not that others feel bad; patriotism is that it is always good in one’s country.

          We were smashing the Germans in the 41st Germans without patriotism, Kursk and Stalingrad passed without patriotism, and the Germans ran to Berlin with patriotism ... Thinking is not your path.
          1. citizen242
            citizen242 8 January 2018 13: 23
            +4
            sabakina Today, 12:55 ↑ New



            Quote: Gardamir

            “Patriotism is not that others have a bad thing, patriotism is that it is always good in one’s country.

            We were smashing the Germans in the 41st Germans without patriotism, Kursk and Stalingrad passed without patriotism, and the Germans ran to Berlin with patriotism ... Thinking is not your path.


            PRICE!!!!!
          2. Gardamir
            Gardamir 8 January 2018 16: 51
            0
            without patriotism
            For the motherland! For Stalin! is this not patriotism?
            Or are all the marshals in VO working for the Kremlin?
            1. prorab_ak
              prorab_ak 9 January 2018 17: 15
              0
              For the motherland! For Stalin! is this not patriotism?
              Or are all the marshals in VO working for the Kremlin?

              Those that are stable among the first 10 commenters in each article are unambiguous)).
              So all online sites work. And this patriotic resource is all the more so. wink
          3. ZVO
            ZVO 8 January 2018 18: 16
            +3
            Quote: sabakina
            Quote: Gardamir
            patriotism is not that others feel bad; patriotism is that it is always good in one’s country.

            We were smashing the Germans in the 41st Germans without patriotism, Kursk and Stalingrad passed without patriotism, and the Germans ran to Berlin with patriotism ... Thinking is not your path.


            Where did we defeat the Germans in 41?
            You do not tell me this. who lost his great-grandfathers in the Second World War ...
            My grandfather died in 1945 in Austria in a report from April 28 to May 5 ...
            In the outskirts of Oberwart.
            Does this tell you anything?
            I would kill such idiots. like you ... Neither the history of those who do not know, nor the responsibility for the words of those who have it .. Lost in words ...
          4. The comment was deleted.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      5. Kent0001
        Kent0001 8 January 2018 12: 51
        +4
        Well yes. Reusability does not count.
      6. Piramidon
        Piramidon 8 January 2018 13: 42
        +6
        Quote: Muvka
        Ordinary rocket. Nothing supernatural. Only her one strangeness is observed. Whatever the start, the transfer.

        Well, you don’t need to blame everything that is not done with us. Carriers from the time of the launch of the first satellite are normal in both us and everyone else. I understand that it is difficult to recognize the success of someone other than your own. but, nevertheless, it is a fact.
      7. a.sirin
        a.sirin 8 January 2018 16: 37
        +1
        like this, transferring, we made the most starts last year ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. poquello
      poquello 8 January 2018 15: 47
      +1
      Quote: Vadim851
      The rocket really turned out good and reliable, since such launches are trusted. Prior to this, the Boeing X-37 was launched.

      each country makes launches on its missiles, unless of course it has them
      1. Vadim851
        Vadim851 8 January 2018 18: 25
        0
        But they’re not the only carrier simply, but this very new company carries out very important launches.
        1. poquello
          poquello 8 January 2018 18: 35
          +1
          Quote: Vadim851
          But they’re not the only carrier simply, but this very new company carries out very important launches.

          here, they trust the only one of the not only, simply put - they delve into their sandbox, and the cockroach of Chukovsky brought gloss to it
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 8 January 2018 19: 09
            0
            The USA still flies Deltas, Pegasus, Atlases, Antares, Minotaurs
    4. ImPerts
      ImPerts 9 January 2018 08: 10
      0
      The secret satellite, codenamed Zuma, launched on Sunday by the Falcon 9 launch vehicle of the American company Elon Musk SpaceX, did not reach its calculated orbit and crashed when it fell into the ocean. Reported by Reuters.
      Next: https://news.rambler.ru/tech/38828515/?utm_conten
      t = rnews & utm_medium = read_more & utm_source = c
      opylink
    5. Petrik66
      Petrik66 9 January 2018 21: 53
      0
      The rocket did not launch a satellite at the cost of a billion bucks, the second stage did not work, the first crashed, and so - that's right.
  2. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 8 January 2018 12: 10
    +8
    "Fed" at the expense of the government? Let yourself fly.
    Reusability of the first stage - how beneficial is it? And how will reliability be affected? Give the numbers. Emotions do not play in this business ...
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 8 January 2018 12: 14
      12
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      "Fed" at the expense of the government? Let yourself fly.
      Reusability of the first stage - how beneficial is it? And how will reliability be affected? Give the numbers. Emotions do not play in this business ...

      This is to Roscosmos. They also decided to develop reusable steps.
      1. Muvka
        Muvka 8 January 2018 12: 20
        +8
        You are confused. Roscosmos is going to return the entire rocket, and not just the relatively cheap first stage.
        1. citizen242
          citizen242 8 January 2018 13: 25
          12
          Roscosmos plans not to launch, but to saw.
          1. You Vlad
            You Vlad 8 January 2018 14: 19
            0
            Quote: citizen242
            Roscosmos plans not to launch, but to saw.

            Where do you get this information from?
        2. Piramidon
          Piramidon 8 January 2018 13: 47
          +8
          Quote: Muvka
          You are confused. Roscosmos is going to return the entire rocket, and not just the relatively cheap first stage.

          I am not a fan of Mask and the United States, but while ours are going to be developed and planned, they already fly it.
          1. KaPToC
            KaPToC 8 January 2018 15: 35
            0
            Quote: Piramidon
            I am not a fan of Mask and the United States, but while ours are going to be developed and planned, they already fly it.

            Chemical fuel rockets have reached their limit of development, no matter how much you beat, no longer squeeze, neither Mask, nor Roscosmos, nor NASA. You can develop along the path of increasing the weight of the launch vehicle, but I must say right away that this is a dead end branch.
          2. cedar
            cedar 8 January 2018 17: 37
            +1
            "I’m not a fan of Musk and the USA but, while ours are going to, develop and plan, they have it already flies. "

            It ... was already reusable on the moon ...
            1. Piramidon
              Piramidon 8 January 2018 18: 14
              0
              Quote: cedar
              It ... was already reusable on the moon ...

              Do you think this launch is a fake, comparing it with the lunar program half a century ago? With the moon, I agree, not everything is clear. Then there were completely different times. But now it would be difficult to scroll through a similar film in the form of a failed flight. All take-offs and landings have something to track.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 8 January 2018 18: 24
                +1
                Everything is clear with the Moon - the flights were the same and the landings.
                1. hrych
                  hrych 8 January 2018 20: 17
                  0
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  Everything is clear with the Moon - the flights were the same and the landings.

                  Is there life on Mars, is there life on Mars ... There is a question of faith. There is a complete discrepancy between science and technology, heaps of egregious facts that NASA cannot answer. Allegedly, young lunar astronauts have already died from old age, and are not able to repeat this feat. What is progress or regression? Surprisingly successful missions that took place without a hitch, as many as six landings plus three overflights of the moon, and suddenly a sharp curtailment of the program. Oh yeah, because of the accident, Apollo 13 did only fly around the moon without a planned landing, well, full theatrical drama and of course the magic number "13". Yes, okay, Brown is indirect to you, and Kubrick directly admitted to a scam wassat
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 8 January 2018 20: 44
                    0
                    Direct and indisputable evidence of the landing is recorded on each video of the landing, in terrestrial conditions it is not possible to remove it, and if you are not a complete amateur, you will see them.
                    1. hrych
                      hrych 8 January 2018 21: 37
                      +1
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      Direct and indisputable evidence of the landing is recorded on each video of the landing, in terrestrial conditions it is not possible to remove it, and if you are not a complete amateur, you will see them.

                      If you are not a complete amateur, then according to the laws of physics there should be a step of 6 meters, and a jump up to 2-3 meters without straining and in length belay 12 meters and more. Have they demonstrated this? No. All bye. Although the rest of the shooting with irregular shadows, reflections on the helmet of people in shorts, the absence of stars, although there is no atmosphere. The same relief composition in the background for different missions, at different landing points. The color of the soil is not brown, as it should be, but ashen. A developing flag in a vacuum. The rate of fall of sand (slowed down during playback by 2 times) should not change, the difference in the acceleration of gravity is noticeable only when experimenting from a great height. And so on. There is no the most important and interesting, photographs and surveys of the Earth from the moon, it doesn’t enter there, it has gigantic angular dimensions, remember how the Moon is visible from the Earth and increase it in proportion. First of all, every astronaut would star in the background of the Earth, if he is not oligophrenic. You will not answer these questions yourself and NASA will not answer them. And we have not yet touched upon technical inconsistencies, a disgrace with the lunar soil and the Japanese whose station flew over the landing sites and did not find a high-resolution camera of their traces and remains, which was literally a few years ago.
                      1. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 8 January 2018 22: 35
                        0
                        "If you are not a complete amateur, then according to the laws of physics there should be a step of 6 meters, and a jump up to 2-3 meters without straining and a belay length of 12 meters or more." “Did you come up with this yourself?” But the real fact is this - in all the videos it is shown as lunar soil - dust spreads two meters from the shoes - when the astronauts move, in terrestrial conditions it is not possible to remove it even though .. fuck, this confirms that the shooting was carried out in the absence of gravity and atmosphere - and all the rest of the notions from the dreamers of the Lunar conspiracy, as well as soap, truncated.
                    2. hrych
                      hrych 8 January 2018 22: 58
                      0
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      dust spreads two meters from shoes

                      That's why I say that you are an adherent of faith and it is useless for you to say anything, to you about an elephant, and you about bugs. Good. A specific fraction is taken by sifting gravel, no more and no less (so as not to dust) and is still washed. Elementary, since gravity is 6 times smaller, the soil should fly away not by 2 meters, but by 22. You understand, GRAVITY is SIX TIMES LESS. On earth, you jump 50 cm upwards, at the same cost of muscle energy on the moon, you fly 3 meters, you run up (in 2-3 meter steps), you jump and fly 6 meters high and twenty in length. Do you not understand this? Such gravity.
                      We begin education from the basics, as it should be
                      1. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 10 January 2018 01: 22
                        0
                        This is clearly not gravel and not dust and wet sand, but the real Lunar soil - in a vacuum and lack of gravity.
                    3. hrych
                      hrych 8 January 2018 23: 29
                      0
                      By the way, on Mars, man also becomes a superman, but not only six, but three times. It can also bounce 3 meters high and 6-8 meters long. And if science fiction films are shown, where astronauts walk on Mars, then it’s also wrong, they will have to move there like frogs, jumping because the earth’s step turns into a jump due to the mismatch of physique, muscles and skeleton with local gravity. And this is not an assumption, not speculation - these are the laws of the universe.
                  2. hrych
                    hrych 10 January 2018 17: 31
                    +1
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    real lunar soil

                    Have you seen him? laughing By the way, the traces of American galoshes are another stupidity, the lunar soil can not leave such small detailed traces as the moon rovers, including Chinese
                    This is the true color of the lunar soil displayed by the Chinese. Something is not compatible with the Americans wassat
                2. hrych
                  hrych 10 January 2018 18: 01
                  0
                  And finally a terrible thing happened. Following the Japanese ... A report by the Chinese state news agency Xinhua confirmed that the Chinese mission to the moon did not find a single piece of evidence that the Americans were ever there. Photographs of the lunar surface taken from the "Jade Hare" - a probe in orbit and further studies on the surface were now analyzed and showed that the areas in which the American landing sites were believed to have the appearance of a surface untouched by humans, and no signs of any activity absolutely not.

                  “They were never there at all,” said Chinese Foreign Minister Wang.

                  All believers in the American lunar program, I sincerely congratulate wassat
        3. Vadim237
          Vadim237 8 January 2018 13: 59
          +8
          “Roscosmos is going to return the entire rocket” - This will happen no earlier than 2035, unless of course the next guideline closes the program.
          1. Muvka
            Muvka 8 January 2018 14: 04
            0
            AND? What do you mean? I just clarified the difference in goals. And that’s all. But you definitely have to fart.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 8 January 2018 15: 01
              +6
              "I just clarified the difference in goals." Roscosmos has only one goal - to remove more dough from the budget, not a fly for the next rocket - ala "Angara", and what in the end will not interest them. There are no people in the leadership for whom space is the meaning of life, the desire to create, implement, discover. But in the USA there are a lot of space enthusiasts who strive for discoveries and achieve these discoveries - for fun, Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are one of them.
              1. poquello
                poquello 8 January 2018 15: 49
                +2
                Quote: Vadim237
                "I just clarified the difference in goals." Roscosmos has only one goal - to remove more dough from the budget, not a fly for the next rocket - ala "Angara", and what in the end will not interest them. There are no people in the leadership for whom space is the meaning of life, the desire to create, implement, discover. But in the USA there are a lot of space enthusiasts who strive for discoveries and achieve these discoveries - for fun, Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are one of them.

                yes yes, tell us about private companies))))))))))))))))))
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 8 January 2018 16: 19
                  +2
                  Competition is the engine of progress, especially in high-tech industries.
                  1. poquello
                    poquello 8 January 2018 16: 31
                    +2
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    Competition is the engine of progress, especially in high-tech industries.

                    a PR sales engine
                2. ZVO
                  ZVO 8 January 2018 16: 29
                  +2
                  [quote = poquello] [quote = Vadim237]
                  yes yes, tell us about private companies)))))))))))))))))) [/ quote]

                  What is wrong with the Boeing. Lockheed, Airbus?
                  Yes, they at some point receive assistance from the state.
                  But this help is targeted and incommensurable with the "digging dough" in our cases.
                  1. poquello
                    poquello 8 January 2018 18: 30
                    +1
                    Quote: ZVO
                    Quote: poquello
                    Quote: Vadim237

                    yes yes, tell us about private companies))))))))))))))))))


                    What is wrong with the Boeing. Lockheed, Airbus?
                    Yes, they at some point receive assistance from the state.
                    But this help is targeted and incommensurable with the "digging dough" in our cases.

                    so the problem is not in calling, but in
                    "digging dough"
            2. ZVO
              ZVO 8 January 2018 16: 27
              +3
              Quote: Muvka
              AND? What do you mean? I just clarified the difference in goals. And that’s all. But you definitely have to fart.


              I will intervene.
              Musk says that at cost he will have 30% savings on the return stage.
              Of the 60 million costs, it will save 20 million.
              This is bad?

              Until our cosmonautics figures (developers from design bureaus, manufacturers like TsSKB Progress) will not receive a salary in the form of a "deal" - "interest" - i.e. they will not become really dependent on profit - you should not wait for the successful work of the astronautics.
              For if there is no aspiration fixed in the commodity-money equivalent, there will be no development.

              Development can of course be done without a “deal" - only now it will be necessary to invest money more than once.
              To block all the jambs, to fill up just with money ...

              And since the rest of the country is already in capitalism, no one will give money for such an unbridled development of outer space.
              Let them learn to spin.
              At least in simple launches, they bring profit.
              And the state will throw up on the development of design ideas ... But only on development. On R&D.
        4. spirit
          spirit 8 January 2018 14: 11
          +2
          The keyword "going" Rogozin already outside the solar system was "going" to be) someone is doing and someone is dreaming
      2. KAV
        KAV 8 January 2018 12: 21
        +5
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        This is to Roscosmos. They also decided to develop reusable steps.

        Only, not a stage, but a rocket.
      3. hrych
        hrych 8 January 2018 12: 29
        +7
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        They also decided to develop reusable steps

        There is no step. If about the outline project "Crown", then there is a one-stage reusable apparatus.

        NASA (or rather McDonnell Douglas) and the Japanese are also designing similar options. Due to Mask and his scheme, the American project may be in a stupor.
        1. flicker
          flicker 8 January 2018 12: 54
          +5
          Now, in the future, an apparatus is needed that could not only fly to Mars, but also start back from there. So multi-step is a dead end.
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 8 January 2018 13: 51
            +1
            Quote: flicker
            Now, in the future, an apparatus is needed that could not only fly to Mars, but also start back from there. So multi-step is a dead end.

            Would someone else tell me to the ignorant that we forgot there on that Mars? Have we all hurt ourselves on Earth? Or will we carry oil and ore from there half a kilo for a flight to Earth? Read fiction ...
            1. Mikhail m
              Mikhail m 8 January 2018 14: 03
              +5
              There is such an animal that, due to physiology, cannot see stars. But it sees acorns very well. Do not be like him.
              1. Piramidon
                Piramidon 8 January 2018 14: 16
                0
                Quote: Michael m
                There is such an animal that, due to physiology, cannot see stars. But it sees acorns very well. Do not be like him.

                Your answer is nothing more than a tautology. I asked a specific question - "Why do we need Mars now?" Can you specifically answer it? Or you have it all boiled down to an abstract "pig under an oak tree" and to romantic dreamers in whom, as it was sung in an old song, apple trees should bloom on Mars.
                1. flicker
                  flicker 8 January 2018 15: 17
                  +3
                  First of all, technology. Here cell phones became possible thanks to the beginning of space exploration. yes
            2. flicker
              flicker 8 January 2018 14: 23
              +4
              Why the hell did we need space? We have that "Is everything hurt on Earth already?"
            3. KaPToC
              KaPToC 8 January 2018 15: 40
              +1
              Quote: Piramidon
              Would someone else tell me to the ignorant that we forgot there on that Mars?

              Living space? To understand what we forgot there, we must fly there.
              Quote: Piramidon
              Or will we carry oil and ore from there half a kilo for a flight to Earth? Read fiction ...

              Our problem is that the Earth is very heavy and take-off from it is very expensive if you manage to create settlements on Mars, the Moon, Io or Titan, communication between them will be an order of magnitude or two cheaper. On the other hand, going down to Earth is much cheaper than taking off from it.

              And half a kilo of Helium-3 from the moon is a very, very much
              1. Piramidon
                Piramidon 8 January 2018 16: 33
                0
                Quote: KaPToC
                Living space? To understand what we forgot there, we must fly there.

                Well, yes, there’s nowhere to step on our Earth, everything is densely populated, all problems have been resolved, everyone is full and satisfied, it just got a little crowded. It remains only to populate Mars, to plow and sow corn. Fiction needs to be read while thinking,
                Open the map of our "ball" with population density.
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 8 January 2018 18: 28
                  0
                  Only the option is no longer science fiction, collisions with the earth of large space objects - in the process of which life on earth can disappear.
                2. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 8 January 2018 18: 50
                  0
                  Quote: Piramidon
                  Well, yes, we have nowhere to step on Earth, everything is densely populated, all problems have been resolved, everyone is full and satisfied, it just got a little crowded.

                  One of these problems is the lack of many valuable resources.
                  Quote: Piramidon
                  Open the map of our "ball" with population density.

                  Open the map of Antarctica with its population density and compare with the density of the population of the moon. With your logic, Russia would be deserted, because the living conditions in China are orders of magnitude better. Compare the populations of Asia and those of other continents and islands.
                  Quote: Piramidon
                  It remains only to populate Mars, to plow and sow corn. Fiction needs to be read while thinking,

                  This is superfluous, there is no need to change the ecosystem of lifeless planets, food will be synthesized directly from hydrocarbons.
                  1. Piramidon
                    Piramidon 8 January 2018 18: 56
                    0
                    Quote: KaPToC
                    Open the map of Antarctica with its population density and compare with the density of the population of the moon. With your logic, Russia would be deserted, because the living conditions in China are orders of magnitude better. Compare the populations of Asia and those of other continents and islands.

                    So you think that it is much easier to master and settle Mars than Antarctica? !!!
                    1. KaPToC
                      KaPToC 8 January 2018 19: 02
                      0
                      Quote: Piramidon
                      So you think that it is much easier to master and settle Mars than Antarctica? !!!

                      I want to say that as the population grows, hands (people) will reach both Antarctica and Mars. In addition, you will not find anything new in Antarctica, but on Mars you will find a lot of new things. And yes, it’s much harder to master Mars than Antarctica.
              2. Piramidon
                Piramidon 8 January 2018 18: 21
                0
                Quote: KaPToC
                And half a kilo of Helium-3 from the moon is a very, very much

                And how much will you sell this "helium-3" to recoup it so fucking expensive delivery delivery. Already have a frantic demand for this helium isotope?
                1. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 8 January 2018 18: 53
                  0
                  Quote: Piramidon
                  And how much will you sell this "helium-3" to recoup it so fucking expensive delivery delivery. Already have a frantic demand for this helium isotope?

                  When they start building thermonuclear power plants (I note not “if” but “when”) a ton of Helium3 will produce as much energy as a million tons of coal. It is quite pay off already at our level of space development.
                  1. Piramidon
                    Piramidon 8 January 2018 19: 13
                    +1
                    [quote = KaPToC] When they start building thermonuclear power plants (I note not “if” but “when”) a ton of Helium3 will produce as much energy as a million tons of coal. It is quite pay off already at our level of space development [/ quote]
                    But doesn’t it bother you that this very helium-3 contains 0,01 g per ton even in the lunar soil? With such "rich" deposits and + delivery, it is cheaper to maintain thermal power plants operating on French spirits and cognacs, not to mention modern uranium ones.
                    By the way, for your information.
                    [quote] The natural isotopic abundance of helium-3 in the Earth’s atmosphere is 0,000137%, estimated at 35 tons. [/quotehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D000%0%D93%B0
                    %D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B9-3
                    1. KaPToC
                      KaPToC 8 January 2018 19: 18
                      0
                      Quote: Piramidon
                      But doesn’t it bother you that this very helium-3 contains 0,01 g per ton even in the lunar soil?

                      I think you made a mistake with zeros somewhere, but it doesn’t matter, I brought three helium for example, in different physical conditions you can find a lot of interesting things.
                      1. Piramidon
                        Piramidon 8 January 2018 19: 43
                        0
                        Quote: KaPToC
                        I think you're wrong with the zeros somewhere

                        Thinking is not harmful, take an interest in the reference literature.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 8 January 2018 12: 55
          0
          There is also a reusable Union-5 project, there is a system like the Mask
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 8 January 2018 20: 45
            0
            Rather effective project, from Roskosmos.
          2. slipped
            slipped 9 January 2018 00: 39
            0
            There is no such project, Soyuz-5 is a one-time carrier. A reusable project is MRKS-1.
      4. hrych
        hrych 8 January 2018 12: 46
        +6
        The USA had a very wonderful DC-X, the Shuttle didn’t give it a way, then they relied on it, now Musk. Many believe that this is a strategic mistake of the United States, in part because of the search for momentary benefits. If the Makeevites fulfill their plan, and they can do things, then this will really be a breakthrough in the development of near space and a prospect for the far.
        1. avt
          avt 8 January 2018 13: 05
          +6
          Quote: hrych
          The USA had a very wonderful DC-X,

          bully Pictures from the exhibition.
          Quote: hrych
          , Shuttle did not give him the way,.
          The shuttle is quite a normal performance of the reusable device at the technical level of that time, and this level was higher in the USA than now, because von Braun really understood what he wanted to do and why, when he continued the space program of the Reich in the USA. Unlike the pictures, it’s quite an engineering solution made in metal with a fuel supply tank and not brought, as planned, to reusability in the use of accelerators that remained at the level of solid-fuel single checkers. Another issue is that there was simply no space program for such a truck. Even in layouts, unlike the USSR, under SOI. As a result, the US took World 2.0 and moved to Union.
          Quote: hrych
          If about the outline project "Crown", then there is a one-stage reusable apparatus.

          Actually, this is the only thing that is needed with the serial production of “barrels” of the last century. Once there is no desire to implement the option “Bast shoes” at a new level, which was proposed by Lozino-Lozinsky. When only a tank would remain a consumable, in the presence of a reusable atmospheric carrier and an orbital apparatus.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 8 January 2018 15: 44
                +1
                Quote: TOR2
                There was also a civilian version, the MAKS project. Which also successfully abandoned.

                This is just a drawing, a similar design simply physically cannot fly up.
                1. avt
                  avt 8 January 2018 16: 16
                  +2
                  Quote: KaPToC
                  This is just a drawing, a similar design simply physically cannot fly up.

                  It’s just that
                  Quote: avt
                  which was proposed by Lozino-Lozinsky.

                  in their last years of work on Lightning. And who, who, and the old guard knew how to translate their own “pictures” into working metal. And even before talking about
                  Quote: KaPToC
                  Quote: TOR2
                  There was also a civilian version, the MAKS project. Which also successfully abandoned.

                  This is just a drawing, a similar design simply physically cannot fly up.

                  At least they asked -For what, "Mriya" was created in the picture painted. An accelerator for the new ,, Laptya "with a hanging tank, it could be easily and naturally. And even if we recall that in the USSR, it seems, even Grandfather, they themselves have experienced an aspirated engine, a hydrogen engine, and in quite a flight version ....... But all this died with the USSR request
                  1. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 8 January 2018 16: 23
                    0
                    Quote: avt
                    And who, who, and the old guard knew how to translate their “pictures” into working metal. "

                    If this were embodied, then everything would have looked very different.
                    Quote: avt
                    What was created ,, Mriya "

                    It's not about "Mriya", but about Buran with a tank.
                    1. avt
                      avt 8 January 2018 16: 27
                      +3
                      Quote: KaPToC

                      It's not about "Mriya", but about Buran with a tank.

                      Is it really so difficult before just clicking on your super opinion in response, just working with a search engine ??? Well, a colleague wrote
                      Quote: TOR2
                      version, project "MAX". Which also successfully abandoned.

                      WHERE HERE
                      Quote: KaPToC
                      about Buran with a tank.
                      ???? !!!!
                      1. KaPToC
                        KaPToC 8 January 2018 18: 55
                        0
                        Quote: avt
                        Well, a colleague wrote

                        Quote: avt
                        WHERE HERE

                        Quote: avt
                        ???? !!!!

                        Yes, I wrote figuratively, I was bullied to find fault with the words, in general I first wanted to write "shuttle with a tank." If there is nothing to be said in essence, it is better to be silent.
                2. ZVO
                  ZVO 8 January 2018 16: 32
                  0
                  Quote: KaPToC
                  Quote: TOR2
                  There was also a civilian version, the MAKS project. Which also successfully abandoned.

                  This is just a drawing, a similar design simply physically cannot fly up.


                  FOOT? laughing
                  1. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 8 January 2018 18: 56
                    0
                    Quote: ZVO
                    FOOT?

                    It will be impossible to stabilize in flight
                    1. ZVO
                      ZVO 8 January 2018 19: 56
                      0
                      Quote: KaPToC
                      Quote: ZVO
                      FOOT?

                      It will be impossible to stabilize in flight

                      Yes Okay ..........................
                      stabilization in flight is a very small value in principle ...
      5. Kent0001
        Kent0001 8 January 2018 12: 53
        +8
        At first, they would once again learn to fly what they had been flying for 50 years. And then Roskosmos only drops everything ...... without consequences for his bureaucrats.
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 8 January 2018 12: 56
          +3
          And what was the percentage of loss last year? Tell me. And the year before last?
        2. hrych
          hrych 8 January 2018 13: 03
          +5
          Quote: Kent0001
          taught to fly again

          While we are delivering astronauts into orbit, we laughing Here Musk launched the satellite, and it is still unknown whether it is successful or not, it is very secret laughing And you again have a reason to spit in the Russian Federation wassat
          1. Antares
            Antares 8 January 2018 19: 45
            +1
            Quote: hrych
            And you again have a reason to spit in the Russian Federation

            I read the topic carefully, no, again about Ukraine .. even if the Russians think so, they are urgently handed a Ukrainian passport ... laughing American grant, etc.
            Interesting topic, why spoil srachom ..
            1. hrych
              hrych 8 January 2018 20: 01
              +2
              Well, you understand sarcasm laughing The topic was about the launch of the Falcon, and the bots began to nudge the Russian cosmonautics. Bots we have followers of bulk, dreamy Bolsheviks, Bandera diaspora, Islamists and the diaspora of the diaspora laughing Therefore, I also translated it slightly into the mainstream of a topic that snapped up, but as a poet and philosopher, it remained incomprehensible to contemporaries wassat I apologize.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 8 January 2018 12: 18
      19
      Five missiles have already successfully taken off on previously used
      1 steps. The cost of the first stage is 1-70% of the cost of the entire rocket.
      1. Muvka
        Muvka 8 January 2018 12: 22
        +3
        You can find out where such figures for the cost of the first stage?
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 8 January 2018 12: 25
          12
          70% is the most conservative estimate. In Russian sources (Roscosmos) - 80% smile
          1. Muvka
            Muvka 8 January 2018 12: 28
            +2
            Drop the link, read. It seemed to me that the main electronics is in other steps.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Muvka
                Muvka 8 January 2018 12: 49
                +1
                I’m not sure about the calculations, but I think that in these calculations, at least, the cost of the first stage includes the costs of electronics and mechanisms to ensure the return of the stage. And it is not known what share in the cost of the first stage this whole thing occupies.
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 8 January 2018 12: 56
                  +3
                  You can make a simple assessment, the engines are the most expensive, nine Marilyn engines in the first stage, and one in the second.
                2. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 8 January 2018 12: 58
                  10
                  Ilon Mask - known to the penny.
                  Therefore, he reduced the relative cost of the first stage to 70%.
                  Including legs, stiffeners and electronics.
                  Note that Musk returns (by parachute) and the nose cone of the rocket -
                  also an expensive thing. Therefore, the savings are huge.
                  1. Blackmokona
                    Blackmokona 8 January 2018 13: 01
                    0
                    Still experimenting with the return of the fairing. Already got the halves, but the process has not yet been established
                  2. ImPerts
                    ImPerts 8 January 2018 13: 49
                    +2
                    I agree. He can save as long as he is sponsored by the budget.
                    1. voyaka uh
                      voyaka uh 8 January 2018 14: 59
                      10
                      It is NOT sponsored by the federal budget.
                      And with Trump, he quarreled altogether.
                      His firms receive tax credits from those states
                      where he built new plants and founded firms.
                  3. slipped
                    slipped 9 January 2018 00: 46
                    0
                    And still, the cost of withdrawing a kilogram of cargo from him is an order of magnitude higher than that of Russia. There is a possibility of cost reduction in group launches on Heavy. The problem with group launches themselves. They are rare.
                    1. prosto_rgb
                      prosto_rgb 9 January 2018 01: 47
                      0
                      Quote: slipped
                      And still, the cost of withdrawing a kilogram of cargo from him is an order of magnitude higher than that of Russia.

                      how is this way the cost is higher?
                      if the start-up cost is equal to proton and the output loads are equal?
                      1. slipped
                        slipped 9 January 2018 01: 59
                        0
                        Yes, not a "way", but something like a candle. And where did you see this value? So far, the cost of state launches is really known. And they cost about $ 100 million. If he dumps, as he claims, in separate commercial launches, then to the detriment of himself. The cost of all Proton-M missiles in ALREADY concluded contracts is ~ $ 65 million, the missiles for these contracts have already been made or are being made and this is the selling price on the Western market until the end of production in 2022, and not the cost of launching this rocket in rubles at home . Here it is many times cheaper. And for dumping, we have Proton-Sredny with a contract launch in 2019.
                    2. axxenm
                      axxenm 3 February 2018 12: 39
                      0
                      Quote: slipped
                      There is a possibility of cost reduction in group launches on Heavy.

                      You seem to be one of the few here who cuts in the space theme ..
                      ... then it’s not clear where you got the mention of completely unreal
                      in fact, the prospects for FH, and even in the context of cost reduction ..
                      ... there will be no successful operation of FH soon. and economically sound, never.
      2. dauria
        dauria 8 January 2018 13: 01
        +7
        Five missiles have already successfully taken off on previously used
        1 steps.

        Success is clear as experiment landing in this way. But commercial use does not fit in the head. How much does the payload take into account the fuel to land? What is the cost of post-flight inspection and detection? How does the weight of a structure change with a larger resource? How many units are disposable? In my opinion, now this is a subsidized program (for example, Concord flights). And even if we accept that the task is purely scientific, working out landing with the possibility of subsequent take-off also does not fit. The thrust of the engines should be optimal, and the weight varies greatly due to the development of fuel. How did they turn out? Two thirds of the engines turn off? So this is ballast then. With the "Shuttles" it was at least clear - aerodynamic descent. And even then, in fact, an expensive thing came out, and not 500 bucks per kilo, as planned.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 8 January 2018 13: 15
          +9
          There are detailed open figures on all of these issues.
          And about reducing the weight thrown, and the amount of fuel to return.
          And delivery, inspection and preparation of the used stage.
          At ALL costs, the savings are huge anyway.
          Musk can dump up to 40 million per launch. And knock out a commercial
          space (communication satellites) in general of all. But it works profitably
          at prices of 60 million
          1. citizen242
            citizen242 8 January 2018 13: 31
            +7
            Sometimes it seems that stubborn people here do not want to admit that someone has better and they work on it.
            Military retirees have good pensions, and they probably have to work out after the service)))) It's a joke.
            1. ImPerts
              ImPerts 8 January 2018 13: 51
              +6
              Quote: voyaka uh
              But it works profitably
              at prices of 60 million

              If you look at the statistics of sales of electric cars, then it is growing steadily. Only in the first quarter of this year in Sweden sales increased by 78%, in Germany sales increased by about 40%, in other regions of the EU sold sales jumped by about 30%.

              The black sheep on this list is Denmark. There, sales of electric cars simply collapsed by 60%. If in the 2015 year in Denmark 2738 cars of the Tesla brand were sold, then in 2016 the number of sales amounted to only 176 cars of the same brand ...

              The reason for this phenomenon is very simple, in Denmark state subsidies for the purchase of electric cars were canceled ...
              https://alexkolos.livejournal.com/2308342.html
              He can dump. While subsidizing.
            2. VALERIK_097
              VALERIK_097 8 January 2018 14: 20
              0
              In the VO community, another pensioner has appeared (civil truth) more recently.
              At age 45, retirement is good. But obviously not for beautiful eyes.
              I’ve been working for the defense industry for 25 years, I’m going to do it for another 10 years (I need to teach someone mindless minds, transfer experience).
          2. poquello
            poquello 8 January 2018 15: 59
            +1
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Musk can dump up to 40 million per launch. And knock out a commercial
            space (communication satellites) in general of all. But it works profitably
            at prices of 60 million

            blablabla, his company survives at the expense of the us government
            1. Korax71
              Korax71 8 January 2018 18: 34
              0
              Strange. And when a crisis and sanctions erupted, the state also financed a private trader, loans at such a rate at which they will not give you life. If he was interested in an investor in the person of the state, then what’s wrong ?????
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 8 January 2018 18: 40
              +1
              His companies already live at their own expense - with orders.
      3. Dreamboat
        Dreamboat 8 January 2018 16: 03
        +2
        The cost of the first stage is 70% because the cost of the returned first stage is 2-2.5 times higher. A different number of engines, other requirements for them. That's all the savings.
        The cost of Falcon 9 is 64 million, and Soyuz-FG 20 missiles .... The real cost of launches is 90 and 70 million, respectively.
        Of 47 Falcon missiles, 2 failed launches, 20 without an attempt to return (maybe the system just didn’t work?), 5 fell to the cosmodrome and only 20 returned. Reused from 20 returnees - 2 (at least that I remember). Know how to count ?!
        Showing numbers beautifully is a great science in the USA. No one can surpass them in this.
        1. ZVO
          ZVO 8 January 2018 16: 37
          +4
          Quote: Dreamboat

          The cost of Falcon 9 is 64 million, and Soyuz-FG 20 missiles .... The real cost of launches is 90 and 70 million, respectively.


          Explain to us, Siri. why the Americans at such an expensive cost of launches earned $ 1,5 billion, and we only 130 million ...
          And yes. why cheap Soyuz-FG - doesn’t it take commercially viable satellites to orbits?
          Would you tell me?

          Where is the money Billy?
          Due to what salary to pay then?
          1. poquello
            poquello 8 January 2018 18: 32
            +2
            Quote: ZVO
            why the Americans at such an expensive cost of launches earned $ 1,5 billion

            what, oh really?
            1. ZVO
              ZVO 8 January 2018 20: 02
              0
              Quote: poquello
              Quote: ZVO
              why the Americans at such an expensive cost of launches earned $ 1,5 billion

              what, oh really?

              You can mock how much you please, but you can not distort real numbers.
          2. slipped
            slipped 9 January 2018 00: 51
            0
            Let me tell you. Because Soyuz-FG is not for sale on the market there are few of them left and they are under manned launches. Although earlier this missile launched commercial vehicles and even AMS to Mars and Venus. And Soyuz-2 is for sale. Moreover, the French successfully buy it and take their companions on it. Also this year, Vanweb bought a lot of rockets to launch its vehicles.
        2. a.sirin
          a.sirin 8 January 2018 16: 52
          +2
          In order to compare the "accident rate", it is necessary to take ALL the starts of the Unions in the entire history of the last modification and see how many experimental starts have been made. Musk at the beginning of the journey, through several years he will go ahead in terms of reliability and range of services
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. onix757
    onix757 8 January 2018 12: 18
    12
    Good job. Congratulations to the Mask. And the sight is really impressive when the stage lands. You can always look)
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 8 January 2018 13: 00
      +5
      When the first mobile phone appeared in the team of a colleague, we also looked at him for a long time and admired. Right now I'm ready to throw my smartphone out the window.
      1. onix757
        onix757 8 January 2018 13: 05
        +6
        You can throw it away, I do not mind)
        Unfortunately, we are used to overseas mobile phones and smartphones.
        1. sabakina
          sabakina 8 January 2018 13: 08
          +3
          I can’t, a gift for the anniversary.
          1. onix757
            onix757 8 January 2018 13: 14
            +3
            Understand. Anniversary gift is not measured in value terms)
          2. karish
            karish 8 January 2018 13: 47
            +4
            Quote: sabakina
            I can’t, a gift for the anniversary.

            is that the only thing that holds you back?
        2. KaPToC
          KaPToC 8 January 2018 15: 46
          0
          Quote: onix757
          Unfortunately, we are used to overseas mobile phones and smartphones.

          Since when have Chinese products become overseas?
    2. avt
      avt 8 January 2018 13: 10
      +5
      Quote: onix757
      And the sight is really impressive when the stage lands. You can always look)

      Circus spectacle, yes. But when the Shuttle quietly, without rumbling sat down, there was no sight, but it became clear - a new, really new stage, and the automatic flight and landing of Buran - was generally a triumph of the Soviet cosmonautics. Nowadays, it’s not these Fintus mask that really impresses, but quiet operation of the X-37. Here the absence of such machines with us, despite the fact that in the USSR they went a step ahead, is real
      Quote: General of the Sand Quarries
      sad
      1. onix757
        onix757 8 January 2018 13: 25
        +4
        Sad of everything. From the fact that it is not able to reproduce Soviet technology, from a crumbling production base, from the lack of specialists at various levels
        among the top managers of Roscosmos and, as a result, a lack of understanding when planning work and compiling programs.
        We are weaned proud of our cosmos. And of course, everything can be fixed, but I’m afraid that we won’t stop.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 8 January 2018 14: 12
          +1
          And in the future, not rockets will fly, but single-stage aerospace aircraft .
    3. Dalailama
      Dalailama 9 January 2018 05: 59
      0
      Even more beautiful, simple solid propellant shuttle boosters simply parachuted into the water.
  5. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General 8 January 2018 12: 19
    +7
    At least America has managed to do something lately. Money is not in vain in SpaceX swelled.
    But with manned flights, everything is sad.
    1. onix757
      onix757 8 January 2018 12: 35
      +7
      Let’s see how the tests of the manned spacecraft end this year, while they are very optimistic. If everything goes well, then it will be extremely unpleasant for Roskosmos.
      PS. You need to say bluntly that the reason for the growing lag of Russia in space is not in Roscosmos as such (although in it too) but in the state management system itself.
      1. Sands Careers General
        Sands Careers General 8 January 2018 12: 47
        +6
        We will discuss when they will launch, and more than once. Yes, and I do not see the backlog of Roscosmos. There are enough problems, but there is no lag.
        1. onix757
          onix757 8 January 2018 12: 55
          +8
          The fact that from year to year the number of commercial launches at Roskosmos is reduced as shagreen leather is not a backlog? About the lack of fresh ideas embodied in practice and the development of outer space is not even worth talking about. As for the space station, we can’t build the module from scratch. Something like this request
          1. Muvka
            Muvka 8 January 2018 13: 11
            +1
            The number of launches at Roskosmos is reduced for two reasons. India and China now launch their satellites themselves and do not give them to us. And the second reason - satellites have become more reliable and live longer.
            1. onix757
              onix757 8 January 2018 13: 28
              +9
              And also because Musk chopped off his share. And for a combination of reasons, it is still not easier for us.
            2. karish
              karish 8 January 2018 13: 50
              +7
              Quote: Muvka
              The number of launches at Roskosmos is reduced for two reasons. India and China now launch their satellites themselves and do not give them to us. And the second reason - satellites have become more reliable and live longer.

              Mask has an increasing number of launches. The volume of orders is constantly growing.
            3. KaPToC
              KaPToC 8 January 2018 15: 49
              0
              Quote: Muvka
              The number of launches at Roskosmos is reduced for two reasons. India and China now launch their satellites themselves and do not give them to us.

              This is natural, the economy of China, India, the United States with satellites is several times larger than ours, so they launch more, it is amazing how Russia generally holds among the leaders.
          2. aleksandroff
            aleksandroff 8 January 2018 13: 34
            0
            And you know a lot about fresh ideas for our deep space exploration. You probably report directly from Roskosmos. That's why the states are not talking about a satellite that brought out nothing. Maybe it's just a fake.
            1. iwind
              iwind 8 January 2018 14: 19
              +3
              Quote: aleksandroff
              And you know a lot about fresh ideas for our deep space exploration. You probably report directly from Roskosmos. That's why the states are not talking about a satellite that brought out nothing. Maybe it's just a fake.

              Well, you tell me.
              What was the last 18 years?
              What did Nasa write below and it's only 10 percent
          3. Sands Careers General
            Sands Careers General 8 January 2018 14: 31
            +3
            Nothing shortens, relax. The commercial launch plan is three years in advance.

            Quote: onix757
            As for the space station, we can’t build the module from scratch.


            You may not build it specifically, but I believe that there are enough professionals in Russia for this purpose.
            1. iwind
              iwind 8 January 2018 14: 45
              +5
              Quote: General of the Sand Quarries
              Nothing shortens, relax. The commercial launch plan is three years in advance.

              Hmm

              Let me remind you that the graph is drawn by moving averages for two years, and the numbers on the left - also the number of commercial launches in two years, and not in one - otherwise the moving one is too noisy. As a result, the charts almost do not respond to pauses in launches, showing trends
              And the trends are that - starting in 2014, the Proton-M market share has been falling, which first flowed to Arianspace, but in the last year, Arianspace began to lose the market in favor of Space-X. In general, it is already obvious to all interested.
              1. Sands Careers General
                Sands Careers General 8 January 2018 15: 03
                +3
                And what do you suggest?
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 8 January 2018 16: 22
                  +1
                  "Proceed to the creation of single-stage aerospace aircraft - to act so ahead of the competition." Only here the leadership of Roscosmos is not interested in this.
                2. iwind
                  iwind 8 January 2018 16: 31
                  +1
                  Quote: General of the Sand Quarries
                  And what do you suggest?

                  In general, he wrote several more years ago ...
                  But you can briefly repeat
                  to fix this
                  Budget 2018–2020, draft for first reading submitted to the State Duma
                  from there - Appendix 7, "Expenses for sections and subsections of the classification of budget expenditures"
                  there - the article "Research and use of outer space"

                  2017 - 114 billion rubles
                  2018 - 73 billion rubles, or 64% of 2017
                  2019 - 78 billion rubles

                  send AMS to other planets.

                  To understand what is happening with Angra, when even the manufacturer does not plan for its commercial use and leaves it only for the state. launches that is, the economic efficiency of the rocket is low.
                  We need to focus on something between 65 and 55 millions of dollars in price, and 5 Hangars will not be able to do this, ”Kirk Pisher told SpaceNews.
                  President of ILS (daughter of GKNPTS named after M.V. Khrunichev) Kirk Pisher
                  This raises questions.
                  How many years and money went to Angora? result where?
                  Cosmodrome East and Baikonur. In the current situation, why spend money on two?
                  Transfer to Vostochny, or even several launches a year to Vostochny’s chest of drawers - they will be gold. Although it’s a small town, it was built and it needs to be maintained and this is money, which is indirectly taken into account in the cost of starting
                  1. Sands Careers General
                    Sands Careers General 8 January 2018 18: 00
                    +3
                    And why do not you work in this direction? Where are the achievements?
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 8 January 2018 18: 33
                      0
                      R&D already exists - they don’t want to give money for construction, testing and certification.
                    2. iwind
                      iwind 8 January 2018 19: 07
                      +2
                      Quote: Sands Career General
                      And why do not you work in this direction? Where are the achievements?

                      why should?
                      I have mine.
                      As a taxpayer I ask questions about the effectiveness of spending this money.
                      The problems are obvious.
                      Almost beyond the Earth’s orbit (1 flight) and we don’t fly, and so what
                      1. Sands Careers General
                        Sands Careers General 8 January 2018 21: 44
                        +3
                        Quote: iwind
                        why should?
                        I have mine.


                        You criticize - offer, offer - do, do not do - answer in all severity of the law.
                        So it should.
                    3. iwind
                      iwind 9 January 2018 13: 49
                      0
                      Quote: Sands Career General
                      SpaceX was unable to put into orbit the US secret satellite launched on Sunday by the Falcon 9 launch vehicle of the American company SpaceX, did not reach the calculated orbit and crashed when it fell into the ocean.

                      More on TASS:
                      http://tass.ru/kosmos/4861265

                      It was previously reported that the first stage made a hard landing on the launch platform and needs repair

                      What do you say now? Waiting for criticism towards SpaceX.

                      In general, please.
                      But then for what?
                      The missile worked normally, and the adapter and satellite were made by northropgrumman, yes they are. Apparently somewhere not finalized
                      and this is not raising the question that a new object is registered in orbit ...
                      The satellite is secret. Maybe all this is disinformation.
                      so something flies from this launch
                      USA 280, international designation 2018-001A. Catalog number 43098.

                      Quote: General of the Sand Quarries
                      It was previously reported that the first stage made a hard landing on the launch platform and needs repair

                      Bullshit .... Since in this launch, Falocon was not returning to earth on a platform in Oken.
                      And landed very softly
                      1. Sands Careers General
                        Sands Careers General 9 January 2018 13: 51
                        +3
                        Some excuses. Not tired of masturbating on everything American?
                        I don’t see critics.
                    4. iwind
                      iwind 9 January 2018 14: 09
                      0
                      Quote: Sands Career General
                      Some excuses. Not tired of masturbating on everything American?
                      I don’t see critics.

                      If he likes to masturbate, who is stopping him? Why translate to others.
                      No excuses. but true information. Since about
                      "landing on the launch platform and needs repair" is not true.
                      Yes, and Falcon-9 brought.
                      Criticism
                      The satellite failed. Well, what else is there to write yes NG nakosyachil and yes for them it is bad. But this is not a Spacex problem
                      1. Sands Careers General
                        Sands Careers General 9 January 2018 14: 18
                        +3
                        And you, my dear comrade, look like an American dweller on a salary, judging by the answers, how I had not guessed to look before.
                        A normal person will not carry such a blizzard as you.
                        And therefore - the adios amigo, ciao and for now.

                        Dixi.
                3. iwind
                  iwind 9 January 2018 00: 14
                  0
                  Quote: Sands Career General
                  Quote: iwind
                  why should?
                  I have mine.


                  You criticize - offer, offer - do, do not do - answer in all severity of the law.
                  So it should.

                  Well, the logic ....
                  then read on victorious news from Rogizn. Just from hiding your head in the sand the situation does not change.
                  No new interplanetary AMSs will appear. No new launch vehicle will appear. And even more so do not appear orders and /
                  In the meantime, we have US-29 launches of the RF-19 that year no better.
                  Although warned about this
                  1. Sands Careers General
                    Sands Careers General 9 January 2018 00: 18
                    +3
                    I repeat once again - you criticize the space program of Russia - do everything to improve it. And haphazard criticism, like justification, like a hole below the back, is for everyone.
                    1. iwind
                      iwind 9 January 2018 00: 27
                      0
                      Quote: General of the Sand Quarries
                      I repeat once again - you criticize the space program of Russia - do everything to improve it. And haphazard criticism, like a hole lower than the back, is for everyone

                      without criticism there is no progress.
                      You can endlessly praise your child and say how good he is, no matter what. Only th & * @ / will most likely grow
                      you need to be able to really look at the world. And then there is a chance that something will change.
                      When one criticizes, he dismisses him if many would think about space, then there would be progress.
                      I will not be ashamed, as I could do what many space enthusiasts write letters and go to conferences.
                      But the government is happy with everything, the budget is reducing, AMC, etc. almost not
                      1. Sands Careers General
                        Sands Careers General 9 January 2018 09: 51
                        +3
                        SpaceX was unable to put into orbit the US secret satellite launched on Sunday by the Falcon 9 launch vehicle of the American company SpaceX, did not reach the calculated orbit and crashed when it fell into the ocean.

                        More on TASS:
                        http://tass.ru/kosmos/4861265

                        It was previously reported that the first stage made a hard landing on the launch platform and needs repair

                        What do you say now? Waiting for criticism towards SpaceX.
                    2. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 9 January 2018 06: 02
                      0
                      they don’t criticize her, it’s closer to what everyone does what everyone does
              2. Dreamboat
                Dreamboat 8 January 2018 16: 22
                +2
                And how true are the conclusions only on protons for 2 years? This is the smallest flying rocket in our country and the need for annual launches of a heavy rocket is not stable.
                And then, the matter is not so much in missiles as in politics: the Amer Congress decided to ban its companies from using our media, and these are companies that overcharge NASA. And NASA launches rockets on OUR RDs!
                1. iwind
                  iwind 8 January 2018 17: 25
                  +3
                  Quote: Dreamboat
                  And how true are the conclusions only on protons for 2 years? This is our smallest flying rocket and the need for annual launches of a heavy rocket is not stable

                  Falcon 9 FT 18 launches in 2017. and growing steadily
                  Quote: Dreamboat
                  And then, the matter is not so much in missiles as in politics: the Amer Congress decided to ban its companies from using our carriers

                  Where?
                  EchoStar 21 is a geostationary communications satellite manufactured by SSL, the Sixth satellite in the EchoStar orbital constellation launched with the Proton launch vehicle [3].
                  June 8, 2017 3:45 UTC
                  EchoStar American company

                  Quote: Dreamboat
                  here are companies and overpaid nasa

                  To whom? Not all launches in the interests of NASA
                  Quote: Dreamboat
                  And NASA launches rockets on OUR RDs!

                  This is 6 on the Atlas of launches out of 29
                  And they are all for the Penagon except 1.
          4. slipped
            slipped 9 January 2018 01: 14
            0
            Quote: onix757
            The fact that from year to year the number of commercial launches at Roskosmos is reduced as shagreen leather is not a backlog?

            It is strange - in 2016 - 3 commercial launches of satellites, in 2017 - 5 commercial launches of satellites + launch of every little thing. Where is the reduction?
            Quote: onix757
            About the lack of fresh ideas embodied in practice and the development of outer space is not even worth talking about.

            ! And what about ExoMars-2016 and ExoMars-2020 ?! And the continuation of the lunar program with the launch of four Luna stations from 2019 ?! And the work on the Venera-D station ?! Not to mention astrophysical research at the Integral and Spektr-R observatories. But Nitsche, that the readiness of Spectrum-RG is already quite high and will it go to Langrazh point L2?
            Quote: onix757
            As for the space station, we can’t build the module from scratch.

            And this is generally a masterpiece! People do not know about the presence of the already built module "Berth" and a completely new design module NEM, the construction of which is in full swing in the RKK.)))))
      2. Irokez
        Irokez 8 January 2018 13: 33
        0
        Quote: onix757
        It must be said bluntly that the reason for the growing backlog of Russia in space is not in Roscosmos as such (although in it too) but in the state management system itself.

        Not really Putin's fault. But men don’t know.
        1. vadsonen
          vadsonen 8 January 2018 15: 39
          +6
          Not really Putin's fault. But men don’t know.

          Not him, of course. The State Department and Obama are to blame for everything. It was they for Russia who made a bet on the export of oil / gas / timber and crippled Russian science and education.
          1. Irokez
            Irokez 8 January 2018 17: 42
            +1
            Quote: vadsonen
            The State Department and Obama are to blame for everything.

            Taki da-ah-ah-ah agree. And the constitution was thrown to us, and the fool and I voted for everything in the euphoria of freedom and democracy in the 90s. Glory to Gorbachev and Yeltsin to the initiator and successor of the State Department and Obama.
  6. VAGNER
    VAGNER 8 January 2018 12: 21
    +4
    Well say well done ..! And yet, our RDs are cheaper and more reliable .. On the ISS on our so far, the delivery of everything is on! Houston can confirm ..
    1. loginovich
      loginovich 8 January 2018 12: 33
      +3
      At the expense of security, you got excited.
      1. Muvka
        Muvka 8 January 2018 12: 52
        +2
        And what is the wrong person? RD engines did their job perfectly. The problem in Frigate turned out to be. And that one is software. Moreover, the launch was almost experimental. New spaceport. So the problem got out that did not appear on other spaceports.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 8 January 2018 14: 15
          +3
          “And the launch was almost experimental” With the payload of foreign satellites, at least such “experimental” ones would be carried out, otherwise insurance will go up with each accident.
        2. loginovich
          loginovich 8 January 2018 17: 49
          +1
          You drove me into a stupor. Everything is good, but space ones do not fly. You should be an assistant to Kiselev and Soloviev, who are also great masters of the word.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 8 January 2018 18: 58
            0
            Space crisis, what to do. We will sell engines, this year we should test the YaRD.
    2. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 8 January 2018 12: 59
      +3
      Marilyn 1 million dollars, RD-180 10-20 million. RD-180 is 5 times more powerful than Marlin, but per kg of traction Marilyn is still cheaper. And then there’s a bunch of parameters, in any case, both engines are great
      1. Muvka
        Muvka 8 January 2018 13: 12
        +2
        10-20 million

        What exact numbers do you have? It’s immediately clear that they didn’t take it out of my head)
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 8 January 2018 13: 22
          0
          But because there was a scandal with the price of RD-180.
          https://ria.ru/economy/20110511/373020049.html
          MOSCOW, May 11 - RIA Novosti. OJSC NPO Energomash sold Russian RD-180 rocket engines for American Atlas-5 launch vehicles for half the cost of their production costs, according to the Russian Audit Chamber.

          Then it was 10 million, they promised to fix it, but such a thing.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 8 January 2018 14: 18
            0
            The costs are too much to create RD 180, so this engine will not be cheap.
    3. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 8 January 2018 13: 06
      10
      “On the ISS, on our so far, delivery of everything is on!” ///

      People (crew) - yes. And the same Space-X delivers cargo
      on his dragon. Moreover, cargo - both there and back.
      Since the Dragon is also returnable and reusable.
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 8 January 2018 13: 15
        +4
        Yes Yes Yes. Everything is hurt in the West, everything is bad with us. Soon we will walk in the skins of a mammoth.
        1. vadsonen
          vadsonen 8 January 2018 15: 44
          +7
          Yes Yes Yes. Everything is hurt in the West, everything is bad with us. Soon we will walk in the skins of a mammoth.

          The current leadership of Russia, of course, thieves and compradors. But they are by no means stupid, for they could still seize power.
          But they will be replaced by their children - the same thieves, but, unlike daddies, without brains. Then your comment can be much more ironic than you would like.
      2. slipped
        slipped 9 January 2018 01: 26
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        “On the ISS, on our so far, delivery of everything is on!” ///

        People (crew) - yes. And the same Space-X delivers cargo
        on his dragon. Moreover, cargo - both there and back.
        Since the Dragon is also returnable and reusable.


        However, delivery per kg of cargo is 5 times more expensive than on Progress. And this despite the reusability.) By the way, about the return - if you look at what he returns there ... basically it’s a waste equipment.
        1. axxenm
          axxenm 3 February 2018 12: 32
          0
          Quote: slipped
          Quote: voyaka uh
          “On the ISS, on our so far, delivery of everything is on!” ///

          People (crew) - yes. And the same Space-X delivers cargo
          on his dragon. Moreover, cargo - both there and back.
          Since the Dragon is also returnable and reusable.


          However, delivery per kg of cargo is 5 times more expensive than on Progress. And this despite the reusability.) By the way, about the return - if you look at what he returns there ... basically it’s a waste equipment.

          “reusability” of the dragon is even more profanity than “reusability” of the first stage of the Falcon ...
          ... Musk embarked on the rails of an ochlocratic manipulation strategy,
          when, considering the general public a dumb cattle
          with memory a little longer than fish
          with the aim of constant coverage in the information space of his activities,
          creates hype by throwing crazy ideas, such as the mythical “reusability”, hyper-loops, manned flyby of the moon in 2018 and landing on Mars in 2024.
  7. ImPerts
    ImPerts 8 January 2018 12: 29
    +1
    What is the advantage of the Mask over the Republic of Kazakhstan, in that it is a private trader. If something goes wrong with the private trader, then this is the private trader’s problems and the voter does not react so aggressively to this. If the state-owned company has problems, then bone-dancing and a public relations company begin.
    Z.Y. Americans have much more opportunity to "bury" a private trader if he starts his game. Let's not forget that Al Capone was put on murders or the organization of a criminal community. He was imprisoned for tax evasion. But they came off to the full. As far as I remember, it’s lifelong (or even not one).
    1. Herculesic
      Herculesic 8 January 2018 12: 58
      +2
      Musk is a puppet that implements in the interests of the United States, or even a narrow circle of people in the United States, a new concept, more precisely, an old concept about the advantage of reusable systems built using the most advanced technologies over conventional disposable missiles, due to a return fragment or the entire missile the ground.
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 8 January 2018 13: 43
        0
        Quote: Herkulesich
        Musk is a puppet

        It’s not a matter of whether he is a puppet or not. I tried to look at everything that was happening from the point of view of a citizen, it seems fashionable now "I pay taxes and you are obligated ...". It is being manipulated, it is constantly poked. And it doesn’t matter what’s different with us. They are trying to impose cliches that are invented in other conditions of the game ...
        Corruption is everywhere; this cannot be denied. But why is the US and the EU obsessed with corruption in Russia, and not at home?
        Because a corrupt official is financially independent and cannot be just manipulated. You will mind, but it all depends on the degree of corruption. If the official understands that he will not succeed in taking more bribes, he will try his best to maintain the status quo. Changing something means losing everything and becoming like everyone else. And if he has a candle factory and he knows that he has enough for a sandwich with sausage, then he will try to work for this factory. He will need a working factory here, not an account there.
        As Rockefeller said? I am ready to report for every one million ... Except for the first.
        This is the dilemma.
    2. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 8 January 2018 12: 59
      0
      The ULA, which monopolized the US heavy-duty market until Mask, are also private traders (Boeing and Lotchid)
    3. sabakina
      sabakina 8 January 2018 13: 04
      +3
      ImPertz Let's not forget that Al Capone was put on murder

      "Put on the needle" I understand, "put on the kill" ..... belay
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 8 January 2018 13: 33
        0
        Quote: sabakina
        put to kill

        Mistake, imprison for killing.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. aleksandroff
    aleksandroff 8 January 2018 13: 23
    +2
    Quote: onix757
    Let’s see how the tests of the manned spacecraft end this year, while they are very optimistic. If everything goes well, then it will be extremely unpleasant for Roskosmos.
    PS. You need to say bluntly that the reason for the growing lag of Russia in space is not in Roscosmos as such (although in it too) but in the state management system itself.

    Where did you see the lag? Who will take the responsibility of launching ten satellites? who besides us carries astronauts and cargo to the ISS? It doesn’t matter that there are accidents, because everyone has them. Our projects are different, look more specifically at what Roskosmos is doing. Amers still cannot make a docking system (but "flew to the moon"). Their projects can be compared with an aircraft model circle. In the meantime, they are purchasing engines from us. And it’s not yet known what the Americans launched there, it’s too secretly they talk about it. No matter how it happened with the lunar fake program. Because, Americans are masters of crafting fakes. Just as we have been postponed or Avria, then you shout to the whole world, and as with them, all the Libers are silent. Take a little interest in who has how many accidents and what is the scale of space activity in countries. American spacecraft commanders are not even on the ISS. Well, they can’t !!!
    1. onix757
      onix757 8 January 2018 13: 45
      +2
      Where did you see the lag?

      Somewhere above I wrote about my vision of a lag. As for the docking system ... and they definitely wanted to do it? I’m not sure, because the capture by the manipulator is a safer system for the station. As for the number of launched satellites, here you still need to look at the quality of delivery and not at the quantity. There are enough cargo launch vehicles there, but common sense should always be present between the desire to cut down the dough more in one launch and the desire to deliver the cargo intact .
      And yes, about the “moon fakes”, when (some time ago) such a fake was the reuse of the stage. So do not rush to conclusions.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 8 January 2018 14: 26
        0
        "There should always be a sense between the desire to cut down the dough more in one launch and the desire to deliver the cargo safe and sound into orbit." This is what everyone is striving for — to minimize risks as much as possible.
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 8 January 2018 14: 08
      +6
      cargo on the ISS


      Per year:
      HTV-6 - H-IIB - Tanegashima site.
      CRS-10 - Falcon9 - Canaveral.
      CRS-11 - Falcon9 - Canaveral.
      CRS-12 - Falcon9 - Canaveral.
      CRS-13 - Falcon9 - Canaveral. Now docked to the ISS.
      CRS OA-7 - Atlas5 - Canaveral.
      CRS OA-8E - Antares - Wallops.
      Progress MS-04 - Soyuz-U - Baikonur. Tank break, drop.
      Progress MS-05 - Soyuz-U - Baikonur.
      Progress MS-06 - Soyuz-2.1а - Baikonur.
      Progress MS-07 - Soyuz-2.1а - Baikonur. Now on the ISS.

      At the same time, both Americans are pulling almost 1 tons of different tasty more to the ISS. The Japanese, in general, like 2 of Progress - the record-breaking HTV-5 brought as many 6,057kg of which of which 4,574 kg climbed into the sealed compartment.
      1. slipped
        slipped 9 January 2018 01: 34
        +1
        Again p ... how do we measure? )))) Progress is not just a TGC, it is a modular platform. He delivers cargoes and the tanker and satellites, and even modules with a weight of up to 4 kg can output. The fact that now its sealed compartment of a small size was dictated by the size of the fairing of the Soyuz-U rocket. With the advent of a new fairing of a larger volume on Soyuz-000b and the airtight cargo compartment of Progress will increase. So far, Progress has been certified for Soyuz-2.1a. Since 2.1, the appearance of a new heavy TGK is possible, the preliminary design of which has been developed.
    3. iwind
      iwind 8 January 2018 14: 14
      +6
      Quote: aleksandroff
      Where did you see the lag?

      Here?
      New Horizons is NASA's automatic interplanetary station, launched as part of the New Frontiers program, designed to explore Pluto and its natural satellite, Charon.

      The task of the OSIRIS-REx apparatus is to obtain samples of the cosmic body and return to Earth with them

      Cassini-Huygens to explore the planet Saturn, its rings and moons. The complex consisted of the Cassini orbital station and the descent vehicle with the Huygens automatic station, intended for landing on Titan.


      “Juno” (also “Juno”, from the English Juno, Jupiter Polar Orbiter) - NASA's automatic interplanetary station, launched on August 5, 2011 for the study of Jupiter [3].

      James Webb will have a composite mirror 6,5 meters in diameter (Hubble mirror diameter 2,4 meters) with a collecting surface of 25 m² and a heat shield the size of a tennis court [approx. 1]. The telescope will be placed in a halo orbit at the Lagrange point L2 of the Sun - Earth system.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 8 January 2018 14: 26
        +6
        They’ll write to you right now - Hollywood! There was nothing. Although one Cassini-Hugens brought in more fundamental data than the entire mission to the moon.
        1. iwind
          iwind 8 January 2018 14: 38
          +3
          Quote: donavi49
          They’ll write to you right now - Hollywood! There was nothing. Although one Cassini-Hugens brought in more fundamental data than the entire mission to the moon.

          sure to say.
          And this is only a part.
          Cassini-Hugens is certainly a great project ... but it is interesting only to enthusiasts.
      2. Dalailama
        Dalailama 9 January 2018 06: 08
        0
        New Horizons and the Mars rover are all RD-180s, and there is still a lot of Russian equipment in the latter inside, Russian plasma engines stand on almost everything.
    4. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 January 2018 14: 24
      +3
      The competition fell, Roscosmos began to squeeze out, with each subsequent year foreign orders he will have less and less, and then manned will come to naught.
    5. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 8 January 2018 15: 45
      +3
      Falcon-9 regularly launches 10 Iridium satellites; Falcon-9 also regularly carry cargo to the ISS. The United States has a docking system for a long time.
      NASA's docking system (NASA Docking System, abbreviated NDS) is an international passive-active docking mechanism, which is being developed for the future manned space flight on the Orion multipurpose manned spacecraft and for commercial manned spacecraft. This is the first attempt by the Multilateral Coordinating Council of the International Space Station to implement the International Standard for the Docking System. NASA's docking system is also known as the international Low Impact Docking System (iLIDS). [1]

      It is planned to connect two International Docking Adapters (eng. International Docking Adapters, abbreviated as IDA) to the Harmony Module’s Sealed Dock Adapters (another name for the NODE-1 module), one in front, the other at Zenith. [2] These adapters will allow the connection of APAS-95 and NASA's docking system. [2] In 2015, it was planned to deliver two International docking adapters to the ISS using two separate Dragon spacecraft missions [3], however, the IDA-1 Adapter was lost when the Dragon crashed during the SpaceX CRS-7 mission during launch in June 2015 of the year. The IDA-2 adapter was delivered to the ISS later by the SpaceX CRS-9 mission, the Dragon spacecraft.
  10. fa2998
    fa2998 8 January 2018 13: 24
    +5
    Quote: Muvka
    Ordinary rocket. Nothing supernatural. Only her one strangeness is observed. Whatever the start, the transfer.

    Yes, the usual reusable (we only have a reusable Rogozin trampoline). And the footboard of Roskosmos is cheaper for them.
    As for the transfer of the launch, this does not mean immediately drowning 19 satellites. It will be remembered that EVE was transferred from the Eastern start to the presence of the guarantor. recourse hi
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 January 2018 14: 46
      +3
      They report that the payload was successfully removed - immediately after the launch of the rocket - at the time of replenishment with expensive scrap metal, grouping of deposits in the ocean, we have been accused of a missile launch by the storekeeper Babu Valya, guard Semyon and locksmith Seryozha, plumbing, accelerating "Breeze" at the right time, did not turn on the engines or turned over the speed sensor, on the unfortunate Proton. Everyone is to blame - but not the manufacturers, testers, assemblers and superiors, they will not plead guilty and will constantly, at each incident, throw arrows at each other - according to the "Trampoline - Rogozin" system.
      1. Cetron
        Cetron 8 January 2018 21: 25
        0
        And pop, that he didn’t “consecrate” the launch vehicle !!!
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 8 January 2018 22: 37
          0
          And Pop had the wrong water, he lit the rocket with it, it fell, that’s the trouble.
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 9 January 2018 06: 10
            0
            Maybe someone didn’t turn on the non-Orthodox plug or threw the nut inside, to which the water did not reach?
  11. Lexus
    Lexus 8 January 2018 15: 14
    +3
    There is no Rogozin on them.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 8 January 2018 15: 24
      +6
      Not ... We have special plans for this comrade. I will tell you bully : send it to Iran
      to oversee the military industry there.
      It was estimated that even with a salary of $ 10 million per month
      the benefit will be ultimate. It is possible without any dubious bombing
      stop all their programs.
      1. ZVO
        ZVO 8 January 2018 16: 48
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Not ... We have special plans for this comrade. I will tell you bully : send it to Iran
        to oversee the military industry there.
        It was estimated that even with a salary of $ 10 million per month
        the benefit will be ultimate. It is possible without any dubious bombing
        stop all their programs.


        For Rogozin, Iran will take revenge on you ...
        Will pay Khomenei to the Israeli prime ministers ...
        Cut anyway. who will disassemble you there ...
        laughing
        Joke of course
        Warrior. no offense. I respect you for a lot and especially for your patience.
  12. Golovan Jack
    Golovan Jack 8 January 2018 16: 27
    +5
    Quote: ZVO
    Musk is a manager managing PMs ...

    IMHO not so.
    Musk is a person with money (not always his own, he is also fed from the budget) and Wishlist.
    Wishlist, by the way, is also not quite his ... well, but that is a separate issue.
    So, the "management of PM-s" here comes down to voicing Wishlist and regularly throwing dough. Which needs to be obtained for this, but for this purpose to sell something that still does not really exist (remember the word Tesla).
    Все.
    Manager? Well, of course. PR and sales, mainly.
    Quote: ZVO
    . he has a bunch of consuls who can "open" each group of each PM ...

    In-in-in ... glimpses ...
    Quote: ZVO
    He is at the top of the pyramid. He is a real manager

    Do I argue? Selling, and especially "selling air" requires ... desperate professionalism (I don’t laugh, and I don’t even smile once).
    Quote: ZVO
    It’s unfortunate that in Russia the phrase “effective manager” became abusive because of our illiterate thief

    I agree. Reservation - not all managers in the Russian Federation are "illiterate thieves."
    Quote: ZVO
    Musk is the right and effective ...

    Quote: Golovan Jack
    Sales & Marketing Manager

    Я and said that comment above. Dispute about anything request
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 8 January 2018 16: 47
      0
      So, the "management of PM-s" here comes down to voicing Wishlist and regularly throwing dough. Which needs to be obtained for this, but for this purpose to sell something that still does not really exist (remember the word Tesla).

      Well, in 2017 they sold more than 100 thousand cars already, gigawatts of batteries, etc.
    2. ZVO
      ZVO 8 January 2018 17: 08
      0
      Quote: Golovan Jack
      . Dispute about anything request


      Believe me, I am very conservative.
      At one time, I could make Bitcoins at 1 pc per day.
      I already knew about them then.
      But conservative sad
      Solar energy is a very unpleasant moment. Even being in Turkey filled one of the Russian Kazakhs who became German, they completely lost the shore without understanding the realities of cost. Business as a whole.
      But ...
      The older you get.
      All the more chances to look retrospectively with the mind.
      There is a very good selection. Already irrelevant by 1 point.



      And yes, here's a marketing joke that works for both the population and everything else ..
      https://keddr.com/2017/11/ilon-mask-sderzhal-obes
      hhanie-i-postroil-energohranilishhe-v-avstralii /
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 8 January 2018 17: 19
        +2
        Yes, you need to shift one line down.
        used rockets are already flying with might and main.
        And - I wang - which is another 4 lines lower after this (used rocket)
        we will catch in 2-3 years
      2. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 8 January 2018 17: 33
        +4
        Quote: ZVO
        And yes, here marketing jokethat works for the population and for everything else ..

        It is he, surprisingly:

        At the 2006 census, Jamestown had a population of 1 and is a thriving center for a thriving area

        Fresh data was not found, but I see no reason to think that the current population of Jystown is much more than 2000 people.
        I will add - in the city there are already two gas stations and one post office.
        By the standards of the Russian Federation, this is ... a small village.

        ... in July of this year Elon Musk bets with Australian authorities to build the world's largest energy storage station ... The entrepreneur promised to build a storage facility in 100 days, otherwise he will do it for free. And the other day there was news about the completion of construction ...
        ... Mask and the authorities were at stake $ 50 million. Tesla cheated a little, announcing the official start of work only on September 29, although by this time the system was operating at a capacity of 50 MW. Nevertheless, formally the company invested on time

        Sapienti sat wink
        Pure PR. Distilled laughing
        You brought the list in vain - this is BKB. Bayan Canadian Bearded.
        I explain: I have nothing against the Mask. But he is a showcase, and he is a PR-box and Sales. No more request
        1. Town Hall
          Town Hall 8 January 2018 17: 44
          +3
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          Pure PR. Distilled
          You brought the list in vain - this is BKB. Bayan Canadian Bearded.
          I explain: I have nothing against the Mask. But he is a showcase, and he is a PR-box and Sales. No more



          You can PR yourself with real deeds. And you can with bikes, projections and trampolines on Twitter.


          Musk PR himself
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 8 January 2018 17: 48
          +3
          "Pure PR. Distilled laughing" ////

          Yes, at least 40 degrees.
          Has he built an energy store? - built.
          Quickly? - very fast.
          The Australians won - Musk won. Called win-win situation
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 8 January 2018 17: 57
            +4
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Has he built an energy store? - built.
            Quickly? - very fast

            voyaka uh, I see no reason for a fight (s) laughing
            For a town with a population of less than 2000, for more than $ 100 million raccoons, they built ... a battery.
            Which works when there is no wind (there is a 300+ MW / h wind turbine there, as the main source of electric power).
            For the same money, all residents could be provided with gas generators and gasoline for 100+ years. Lehko, and still would be.
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Called win-win situation

            Well, you can call it that request
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 8 January 2018 18: 08
              +6
              This town is a living example for hundreds of other similar towns.
              Windmill + battery. And no need to bathe with oil and gasoline.
              While there is no working "model" people do not believe in new solutions.
              Conservative London has been smoking coal fires for hundreds of years.
              Thatcher said, “Enough!” And - oops - how magically the famous London smog disappeared, the snow suddenly turned white. Wonders!
              You just need to decide on a new one ... fellow
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 9 January 2018 06: 35
                +4
                Quote: voyaka uh
                This town is a living example for hundreds of other similar towns ...

                ... at the price of $ 50000 for everyone living in it. This, IMHO, example of how not to do.
                Quote: voyaka uh
                Conservative London has been smoking coal fires for hundreds of years.
                Thatcher said, “Enough!” ...

                ... and London began to stoke money? No?
                Well, okay ...
                Personally, in the "breakthrough" endeavors of the Mask, only one component is clearly visible: PR. Propaganda and Agitation, in other words.
                Everything else is just a byproduct.
                With such an amount of dumped dough, something should appear in the light.
                Again - the layman must know that the "American dream" is more alive than all living things.
                Today her personification is Ilon Mask, (TM).
        3. ZVO
          ZVO 8 January 2018 17: 53
          +1
          Quote: Golovan Jack

          I explain: I have nothing against the Mask. But he is a showcase, and he is a PR-box and Sales. No more request


          I highly recommend the next couple of years to look at the life of Russian-speaking Americans.
          These are immigrants from Russia, Ukraine. Belarus. Baltic States, etc.
          To do this, you need to spend a lot of time. And you will not find a squeeze.
          Have to browse a lot and for a long time.
          But use the Mask.
          They drive in tesla, they are waiting for this truck. etc.

          They really know how to count money, unlike us. for yet we are much more children. in this capitalism.
          They save on everything.
          Fart in Kostko, which is an indicator.

          I myself am an MBA, my wife was two in general, my daughter lived for 1 year in Ireland.
          I understand completely. it seems to me how they live and how they live.
          I don’t like so much.

          But they can create ...

          20 years ago, Deripaska bought the Samara Aircraft Plant.
          I wanted the whole chain from Energy, through aluminum, to the release of the final production.
          My wife was invited to the post of financial director.
          Failed.
          They tried for a whole year.
          But no way.
          Just because the workers could not be returned for sane money, and the equipment was already stolen ...
          And fuck the state ...
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 8 January 2018 18: 23
            +4
            Quote: ZVO
            Highly recommend next couple of years look at the life of Russian-speaking Americans ... For this it is necessary spend a lot of time. And you will not find a squeeze. Have to browse a lot and for a long time

            What for? To understand that
            Quote: ZVO
            They save on everything

            и
            Quote: ZVO
            use the mask

            ?
            I do not have so much free time. The next 2 (and even more) years, I suppose ... to work, you see.
            Today, wonderful holidays are ending, and tomorrow - work, work, work.
            I have enough acquaintances (classmates, in particular) in the States and Canada, and I know their attitude to Mask, in particular.
            It ... none.
            Despite the fact that the guys did not finish far from the fence-building technical school, they have been living there for a long time and quite well-established people.
            Quote: ZVO
            ... they can create ...

            Or they may not create it. It strongly depends on the availability of the order and the amount of dough under this order.
            I saw (at work) near the "geniuses" of the Mask type (not so cool, of course). They are simple and understandable, and work exactly as I described above.
            The result - sometimes there is, sometimes not.
            Musk - IMHO - it's a state project, R&D and an experimental shop in one bottle. Plus a showcase to attract customers.
            In such circumstances, working - well, just very comfortable.
            ---
            About Russian realities - I’m a little aware, because within walking distance from my, um, kitchen are TsNIImash and Energy. Everything there is not as filder-like as that of Mask, but they work, actively gather young animals and are not going to die.
            In 1996, when I dumped from there, even the financial department stopped paying salaries. Fun, huh? wink
            So, IMHO, "there will still be," not as soon as we would like, but for sure - it will be.
            And then look at the Mask with his list.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 8 January 2018 19: 09
              +2
              "Mask - IMHO - the same state project" ////

              This is a complete misunderstanding of the United States by the Russians.
              The Russians are obsessed with statehood (as happened historically).
              The state is a king, god, policeman, father, mother in one bottle.
              He is praised, scolded, idolized, cursed - according to the situation.
              But everyone agrees that without it - nowhere, you’ll disappear ...
              In the States, God is a private trader, a private entrepreneur. And the state ("federals")
              - something hostile, distant. Which only harms life.
              Therefore, behind any successful private trader: Seryozha Brin or Steve Jobs or Elon Musk, the shadow of state power and help fills the Russian citizen.
              But she is not.
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 8 January 2018 22: 17
                +4
                Quote: voyaka uh
                In the States, God is a private trader, a private entrepreneur. And the state ("federals") is something hostile, distant. Which only harms life

                That, however, does not prevent entrepreneurs from periodically biting each other for tasty government contracts, right? wink

                Quote: voyaka uh
                Therefore, behind any successful private trader ... the shadow of state power and help fills the Russian citizen. But she is not

                Evil languages, citing the Los Angeles Times, say that in total 3 Mask companies received from the state (in various forms) from $ 4.9 to $ 5.5 billion.
                Lie, come on?
                I am too lazy to look for the original now, to work tomorrow from the very beginning ...
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 8 January 2018 23: 45
                  +1
                  "that a total of 3 Mask companies received from the state (in various forms) from $ 4.9 to $ 5.5 billion" ////

                  These are tax breaks from those states where he founded factories, research institutes, firms.
                  Each state seeks to attract entrepreneurs to get new jobs. They give all sorts of benefits.
              2. MadCat
                MadCat 9 January 2018 04: 17
                +1
                Quote: voyaka uh
                Therefore, behind any successful private trader: Seryozha Brin or Steve Jobs or Elon Musk, the shadow of state power and help fills the Russian citizen.

                Nonetheless, it was the feds who helped GM during the crisis .. I don’t understand why the Mask got used to criticizing the Mask for having state contracts on the site, well, it's ridiculous. EVERYTHING IS EQUAL, he successfully operates fully state-owned Russian companies fellow
  13. cedar
    cedar 8 January 2018 18: 56
    +1
    Quote: Golovan Jack
    Musk - IMHO - the same state project, R&D and experimental workshop in one bottle. Plus a showcase to attract customers.
    In such circumstances, working - well, just very comfortable.
    ---
    About Russian realities - I’m a little aware, because within walking distance from my, um, kitchen are TsNIImash and Energy. Everything there is not as filder-like as that of Mask, but they work, actively gather young animals and are not going to die.
    In 1996, when I dumped from there, even the financial department stopped paying salaries. Fun, huh?
    So, IMHO, "there will still be," not as soon as we would like, but for sure - it will be.
    And then look at the Mask with his list.


    This will be a great omission of the masters of the Unipolar world. How is it that they, having tightly imposed sanctions on our economy, simply put, after spreading it, will forget to rush Roscosmos? Who owns the Cosmos owns the Unipolar world.
    So Musk is a “state project”, but if the masters of the same-sex world invested in it, then I won’t be surprised. To crush competitors in competitive wars is their credo, all the more money flows to them and flows hundreds of billions a year from Russia, bleeding, including Roscosmos.
    We see in the root, dear earthlings. To Cosmos, to the stars, but through the meanest arrogant thorns ...
    "A new world order is being created against Russia, at the expense of Russia and on the wreckage of Russia (Roscosmos ...)"
    Advisor to the three presentations of the United States Brzezinski ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 January 2018 19: 24
      0
      You are probably one of these "rocket manufacturers" they all have - everyone is to blame, but not us and not the "Bloodless Roscosmos" - there are so many parasites that they managed to suck out several trillion rubles from the budget, and the output is the non-flying rocket "Angara" "and the Cosmodrome is a work in progress, ambitions are full of pants, and these are all achievements - over 20 years of existence.
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 8 January 2018 22: 09
        +4
        Quote: Vadim237
        managed to suck out a few trillion rubles from the budget, and at the exit

        Vadim, is there anything in this world that you don’t know? wink
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 8 January 2018 22: 39
          0
          There is - The whole world and the whole universe.
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 8 January 2018 22: 45
            +4
            Quote: Vadim237
            There is - The whole world and the whole universe.

            Do you need to understand this phrase so that you do not know anything?
            It can be understood as such.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 10 January 2018 01: 30
              0
              I don’t know much - this is a good reason to improve and increase knowledge.
  14. avt
    avt 8 January 2018 19: 53
    +1
    Quote: KaPToC
    Yes, I figuratively wrote
    And right after
    Quote: KaPToC
    . If there is nothing to be said in essence, it is better to be silent.
    ,, Quietly with myself I have a conversation " fool
  15. Antares
    Antares 8 January 2018 19: 56
    0
    Despite the fact that the topic again fell into the person of Mask, I am sure that any achievement of the human race in space exploration is the progress of the whole society. Even those who do not even know about it and do not know.
    All of humanity has won. Someone may have lost.
    All these are small steps of a person. We are in space for only half a century ...
  16. Doubting
    Doubting 8 January 2018 20: 39
    +1
    I was thinking ... and if Rogozin is drowned, like that dachshund, maybe we can do with space?
    1. sabotage
      sabotage 8 January 2018 22: 02
      0
      He has a son. The son will roll mountains for the father!
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 January 2018 22: 42
      +1
      Yes, we’ll sink him, he will find a goldfish at the bottom and our cosmos will simply shoot at a height - at his will.
  17. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General 9 January 2018 00: 54
    +4
    Quote: iwind
    you need to be able to really look at the world


    Actually, the ISS fly only on the Russian Soyuz.

    So, if you have any ideas, you need to act, rather than slop Roscosmos doused. Work, work and work.
  18. slipped
    slipped 9 January 2018 01: 42
    +1
    Quote: iwind

    James Webb will have a composite mirror 6,5 meters in diameter (Hubble mirror diameter 2,4 meters) with a collecting surface of 25 m² and a heat shield the size of a tennis court [approx. 1]. The telescope will be placed in a halo orbit at the Lagrange point L2 of the Sun - Earth system.


    At the end of this or at the beginning of next year, our second astrophysical instrument, the joint Russian-German Spektr-RG, will also go to L2 there.
  19. Prisoner
    Prisoner 9 January 2018 08: 42
    +2
    As popular wisdom says, “a vaunted bride farts at a wedding.” winked "Falcon 9 started on Monday night. Eight minutes later, the reusable first stage of the carrier in an upright position safely descended to a special landing pad. But the rocket could not enter the calculated orbit ..." (c)
  20. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General 9 January 2018 09: 54
    +4
    It didn’t work with SpaceX. The satellite crashed, the first stage requires serious repair after a hard landing.