Military Review

Aviation against tanks (part of 21)

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Along with the growth of the economy, the PRC leadership has embarked on a radical modernization of the armed forces. In the 80-90s, thanks to military-technical cooperation with Western countries, modern types of equipment and weapons appeared in the PLA. The creation and operation in China of combat helicopters, created on the basis of the French Dauphin, made it possible to accumulate the necessary experience and draw certain conclusions. Based on the realities of the level of development of modern air defense systems and having analyzed the use of helicopter technology in local conflicts, the command of the Chinese army aviation issued a technical task for a specialized attack helicopter capable of fighting tanks and provide fire support day and night, in difficult weather conditions. At some point, the Chinese hoped to gain access to the A.129 Mangusta anti-tank helicopter being developed in Italy, and with the Americans in 1988, an agreement was reached on the sale of the AH-1 Cobra and the license to manufacture the ATGM BGM-71 TOW. I must say that there were all reasons for this. In the late 70s, the countries of the West and China began to "make friends" against the Soviet Union.

The United States, France, Italy and the United Kingdom for about 10 years conducted quite active military-technical cooperation with China, under which, for example, a batch of SA anti-tank helicopters was sold. 342 Gazelle with ATGM NOT. However, in connection with the events on Tiananmen Square in 1989, sanctions were imposed against China, and it was a question of supplying modern Western weapons could no longer go. After normalization of relations with Russia, the Chinese were offered export Mi-35. However, by that time, Chinese experts had already become familiar with the widespread Mi-25 (export version of the Mi-24D combat helicopter) and found it too heavy and cumbersome. In addition, the sighting and search systems of Soviet combat helicopters are largely morally obsolete. And the Mi-24 itself, created as a “flying BMP”, was more often used as an attack aircraft, the main weapon of which was unguided rockets, and the PLA command wanted to be armed with a maneuverable and at the same time well-protected two-seater, comparable to the American “ Apache "and possessing high anti-tank potential.

At the aerospace showrooms, the Chinese, of course, could see the Mi-28 and Ka-50. It is not known whether our rulers were smart enough not to sell these helicopters to the PRC, or whether the Chinese military-political leadership decided to refrain from purchasing small-scale and still very raw machines, but modern Russian rumble-wing helicopters were not supplied to China. However, without Russian assistance in creating a Chinese military helicopter could not have done.

An example of the appearance of a Z-1 combat helicopter is a good demonstration of how modern aircraft was built in the PRC in the past. Officially, the designer Z-10, which received the designation in China, “Fire Lightning Strike”, was part of the “823 Program”, the 602 Research Institute, aircraft building corporations China Aviation Industry Corporation II and Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation. At the same time, the program to create a Chinese military helicopter was strictly classified, and strictly metered contradictory data were given in the media. This was largely due to the fact that the provision of military technology to the PRC was banned because of Western-imposed sanctions, and the creation and supply of a number of key components and assemblies by European and American companies was motivated by civilian projects. All equipment ordered in the West was supposedly intended for a middle-class civilian helicopter. The Chinese have been able to mislead "Western partners" for about 10 years. For example, Eurocopter and Agusta received more than $ 100 million for assistance in developing the transmission, control system and five-blade main rotor. Helicopter cockpit parts and avionics in many ways resemble Thomson CSF and Thales products. The Z-10 uses a data bus with the designation in the People's Republic of China GJV289A. It is the equivalent of the American MIL-STD-1553. There was information in the media that the sighting and observation complex created by the South African company Advanced Technologies and Engineering (ATE) could be used in a Chinese combat helicopter.

In the summer of 2012, the US government fined a subsidiary of Pratt & Whitney Canada, United Technologies, $ 75 million for supplying a batch of PT6C-76C engines. As a result, Western companies curtailed all cooperation with the Chinese corporation Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC), but this happened after the prototype Z-2003 first took off in April 10. However, as it turned out quite recently, back in 1995, a secret agreement was concluded with the Russian side, according to which the Kamov Design Bureau and CAIC created a joint design group that worked on a catalog of drawings for 2,5 years. According to a representative of the Russian company, the engineering and design group of the Kamov Design Bureau carried out design work in accordance with the parameters and layout scheme proposed by the Chinese side. However, the Chinese are currently denying all accusations, stating that the Z-10 is 100% designed by Chinese developers and is fully assembled from components manufactured in the PRC.

The Z-10 attack helicopter has a classic tandem crew layout. From the very beginning it was stipulated that the controls of the helicopter would be installed in both cabins. As in the European "Tigre", the workplace of the pilot is located in front. On the last modification of the helicopter delivered to the troops, in the cockpit of each crew member there are two large multifunctional liquid crystal displays.

Aviation against tanks (part of 21)


To control the weapons used helmet-mounted aiming system, similar to the American Honeywell M142 Integrated Helmet. Flights in the dark are provided with equipment built on the basis of French and Israeli developments.

It is reported that before the Z-10 entered the combat units of the Chinese Army Aviation, the sighting and search equipment of the helicopter was changed three times. According to Western experts, the possibility of using a helicopter at night, searching for targets and using guided weapons at the moment approximately correspond to the American helicopter of the modification of AN-64А Apache. However, the security of the Chinese helicopter is far from the level of the American rival. At least when condemning the export deliveries of Z-10 to Pakistan, it was officially announced that the fuselage of the Chinese attack helicopter withstands shelling of 12,7-mm bullets. It is stated that the frontal bulletproof bulletproof cabins 38 mm also protect from bullets of large-caliber machine guns, however it is not specified from what distance. The damping system of the landing gear and pilots allows the crew to survive during an emergency landing with a vertical speed of 10 m / s, which is slightly less than the speed of a safe landing, which was achieved on American, European and Russian military helicopters.

At the same time, “Fire Lightning Strike” is equipped with all the necessary set of equipment for countering air defense weapons and sensors for detecting radar and laser irradiation. It can be said with confidence that the equipment installed on Chinese machines is comparable with analogues available on Apache, Mongoose and Tigers. If Chinese combat helicopters are still inferior to modern foreign attack rotary-winged machines in ballistic security and weight perfection, then there is no reason to doubt the level of Chinese electronics. The on-board self-defense system, known as YH-96, automatically analyzes possible threats and, if necessary, can independently generate interference and shoot heat and radar traps. Navigation is provided by Beidou satellite positioning signal receivers.

According to the information sounded in the Chinese media, at the moment there is a fine-tuning and adaptation of the millimeter-wave radar station. Allegedly, this station is not inferior to the American super-AN / APG-78 Longbow. The Chinese radar, known as the YH MMZ FCR, weighs about 70 kg, which is significantly less than the mass of the Arbalet radar available on the Mi-28Н. It is alleged that the YH station of the MMR FCR is fully compatible with the fire control system, and the supply of helicopters with a nadulotchny radar will begin to the troops in the near future. It is stated that the detection range of the Chinese helicopter radar exceeds 30 km. But it is not clear whether we are talking about air or ground targets. The equipment of the front-line helicopters includes a suspended reconnaissance container KZ900 SIGINT with radar reconnaissance equipment. Although helicopters with such containers were repeatedly demonstrated to the general public, the composition of the equipment and the spectrum of operating frequencies were not disclosed.

In 2006, the first blurred photos of the Chinese attack helicopter appeared. Western observers initially considered him a copy of the Italian A.129 Mangusta, but later it turned out that it was a larger and heavier machine. The termination of deliveries of American engines somewhat slowed down the process of refining and adopting the Z-10. As a result, serial helicopters are equipped with two Chinese Zhuzhou WZ-9 turboshaft engines with a take-off power of 1285 l. with. Western sources say that Russian and Ukrainian specialists participated in the development of the engine control system.


Z-10


The flight data of the Z-10 combat helicopter is not known for certain. Apparently, the maximum take-off weight is within 6700-7000 kg. Based on the ratio of the power of the power plant and the mass, it can be assumed that the maximum speed of the helicopter is about 300 km / h and the rate of climb of 10 is m / s. According to information published in the Chinese media: the flight distance exceeds 800 km, and on the external suspension nodes you can place a combat load of 1500 kg.



A Chinese combat helicopter can carry up to 16 ATGM HJ-8 and HJ-9. However, the main weapons are guided missiles HJ-10. In the western directories they write that this rocket is the Chinese equivalent of the AGM-114 Hellfire ATGM.



However, unlike the Hellfire, the Chinese rocket has a narrowed head, which is supposedly done to reduce drag. It is reported that HJ-10 can have a television, thermal and laser guidance system. In total, the external nodes are suspended up to 8 ATGM HJ-10.


ATGM HJ-10


Since the Z-10 helicopter is to receive a millimeter-range radar in the future, it is likely that work is underway to build an anti-tank missile with a radar seeker. According to Jane's Defense Weekly, HJ-10 laser-guided missiles were shipped to Saudi Arabia and Sudan. The launch range of the export version, weighing about 47-50 kg, is capable of reaching 10 km. Flight speed - 340 m / s. Penetration - 1000 mm. The rocket can also have a thermobaric and armor-piercing high-explosive penetrating warhead.

In addition to the ATGM, the helicopter can carry on the four nodes of the external suspension blocks NAR caliber 57-90-mm. Containers with 7,62-mm, 12,7 or 14,5-mm multi-barrel machine guns or 35-40-mm automatic grenade launchers. To combat the air enemy are intended UR TY-90 with a launch range of up to 8 km or PL-7 and PL-9 with a range up to 15 km. A total of 16 TY-90 or 4 PL-7 / PL-9 missiles can be mounted on a combat helicopter.


Air-to-air TY-90


The Z-10 helicopter is equipped with a mobile artillery mount with a 23-mm cannon (23-X115-mm ammunition). According to Chinese data, the horizontal angle is 130 °. However, the Chinese military was not satisfied with the power of the 23-mm projectile and tested the turret with a Russian 30-mm 2A72 cannon on a combat helicopter. But the optoelectronic systems installed in the nose of the fuselage turned out to be too “gentle,” and because of the strong recoil, there were frequent failures when firing from the powerful 30-mm gun. In this regard, it was decided to install on the Z-10 25-mm gun (25 × 137-mm ammunition), created on the basis of the American M242 Bushmaster. This cannon with chain drive and double ammunition is considered quite reliable. Armor-piercing tracer M791 mass 185 g with a core of tungsten alloy at a distance 1000 m is able to penetrate the normal 40 mm armor. The analogue of the American 25-mm guns and ammunition are mass-produced in the PRC. 25-mm gun, for example, is armed with a tracked BMP Type 89 (YW-307).



According to the World Air Forces 2016, in the PLA Army Aviation in the second half of the 2016, there were X-NUMX Z-96 combat helicopters. In addition, it was announced that Z-10, along with transport Z-10 (SA 8 Super Frelon), can be part of air groups based on the Type 321 universal landing craft and used for fire support of the landing. Earlier, a special naval modification of a combat helicopter was tested on the first Chinese aircraft carrier, Liaoning.



In the 2017 year, it was reported that the Z-10 helicopter in massive quantities enters the army and is already equipped with the third helicopter brigade of army aviation. Starting in 2010, the Z-10 troop tests were conducted in the 5 helicopter brigade based in Nanjing.


Google Earth Satellite Image: Z-10 Helicopters at Baoding Air Base


The second military unit that received Z-2012 helicopters in 10 was the 8-I helicopter brigade of the 38-th Army of the Beijing Military District, stationed at Baoding Air Base, Hebei Province. From 2014, the helicopter brigade of the 7 Army of the Jinan Military District in Liaochen, Shandong Province, is retrained from attack helicopters.


Google Earth Satellite Image: Z-10 Helicopters at Liaochen Air Base


In addition to deliveries to the PLA, CAIC aircraft corporation offers Z-10 for export, the export cost of the helicopter, depending on the composition of the avionics and weapons, is $ 25-27 million. Which roughly corresponds to the export version of the Mi-28HE and is more than two times cheaper than AN-64D . It is known that several Chinese combat helicopters for comparative tests with the Russian Mi-35M and the "Turkish" T-129 ATAK purchased Pakistan.



It is very difficult to evaluate a new Chinese combat helicopter, since it has only just begun to enter the troops, it has not been studied enough by the flight and technical staff and has many “childhood ills”. Mastering new equipment due to the high complexity and lack of experience in the PRC of operating helicopter gunships equipped with modern avionics can be delayed. The commissioning of new helicopter technology is often accompanied by a high accident rate. So it was in the USA and in our country, Europeans with their Mongoose and Tigris managed to avoid noticeable losses due to accidents and catastrophes, but this is due to the very low rate of helicopters entering the combat squadron and a long period of refinement and development.



Periodically, there is information about flight incidents involving Z-10. So, 4 March 2017, in the central province of Shaanxi, crashed a Chinese attack helicopter, while the crew was injured. Since 2010, it has been known about five accidents and disasters that have happened to Z-10.

Currently, a new modification of the Chinese combat helicopter with an engine is being created that is capable of providing power up to 1800 hp during takeoff. With the previous geometrical dimensions, the maximum take-off weight of the modified Z-10 can reach 10 000 kg. That is, on this indicator closest to the "Apache". Apparently, the reserve capacity will be used to increase security, combat load and volume of fuel tanks.

As was already mentioned in the previous part of the review, the Zhengxw transport and combat Z-2W, equipped with a sighting and search system and HJ-9E anti-tank guided missile and night vision Z-8WA with a night vision system, a laser range finder, was created in the People's Republic of China on the basis of a French helicopter target designator and laser guided HJ-9 ATGM. Simultaneously with the creation of a “big” attack helicopter Z-9 in China, they decided to play it safe, and despite a dispute with EADS regarding the expiration of the license for production in the People's Republic of China, SA 10 Dauphin 365 started to build an reconnaissance and attack helicopter based on it.

Compared to the weakly protected Z-9W, the new double-purpose specialized vehicle is better suited for conducting aerial reconnaissance and striking ground targets. At the same time, the risk of failure, compared with the Z-10 created from scratch, was much less. The rejection of the passenger cabin while maintaining the same flight data and maximum take-off weight made it possible to improve the security and the number of weapons on board. With the previous power plant, the new helicopter became shorter by about 1,5 m. Unlike the Z-9, the reconnaissance-attack helicopter has a narrower fuselage and a tandem cockpit.

Helicopter Z-19, known as the "Black Twister", was created by Harbin Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation (HAMC). His first flight took place in May 2010. Since the well-developed components and assemblies of the Z-19 helicopter and the avionics, already tested on the first Z-9 prototypes, were used in the Z-10 to a large extent, the tests went very quickly. Despite the fact that the Z-19 head prototype was broken in September 2010, tests of the pre-production batch started in the first half of 2011. A few months later, the first Z-19 entered the 5 Squadron of the 8-th helicopter brigade of the 38-th Army of the Beijing Military District. At about the same time, the personnel of this unit stationed in the vicinity of the city of Baoding, in parallel, began to develop combat helicopters Z-10.


Google Earth Satellite Image: Z-10 and Z-19 Helicopters at Baoding Air Base


Thanks to the fenestron-type tail rotor and a number of noise reduction measures, the acoustic visibility of the Z-19 is much lower than that of many other combat helicopters. In addition, the thermal and radar visibility is reduced compared to the Z-9.


Z-19


On the “chin”, where other attack helicopters usually have movable machine-gun cannon turrets, a moving ball with optoelectronic aiming-search and night-vision equipment, as well as a laser range-finder, is mounted. To parry all sorts of threats, the attack and reconnaissance helicopter is equipped with sensors and defensive systems similar to those used on the Z-10.



On the Z-19 helicopter it is possible to use a wide range of weapons, including laser-guided anti-tank guided missiles, NAR units and suspended machine-gun cannons. The weight of the combat load on the external nodes has not been officially announced, but according to expert estimates it can reach 700-800 kg.



Apparently, the security of the Z-19 is not higher than that of the larger and heavier Z-10. It can be assumed that the cabin and the most important parts of the helicopter can withstand rifle caliber bullets.

The flight data of the Z-19 is roughly at the level of the armed version of the Z-9. A helicopter with a maximum take-off weight of 4500 kg, with a full refueling of fuel tanks, is able to be in the air for 4 hours. During this time, he can fly about 800 km. Maximum flight speed - 280 km / h. Cruising - 240 km / h. The power plant consists of two turboshaft engines WZ-8C hp power 940.


Z-19


At the Heli-Expo exhibition, a Z-19E helicopter was shown with HJ-10 ATGM mock-ups, a NAR unit and a suspended machine-gun container. This modification is intended for export deliveries. According to data sounded in the Chinese media, Sudan ordered several cars. A light combat helicopter Z-19E at a cost of about $ 15 million may be of interest to third world countries that are financially constrained or cannot buy modern combat helicopters in the West due to sanctions restrictions.



At present, approximately 90 light Z-19 helicopter reconnaissance and assault helicopters have been delivered to the Chinese armed forces. Often they enter the mixed brigade helicopter brigades where Z-10 are also operated.



Recently, there were pictures of Z-19 with a millimeter-range nadpeltochny BRLS. The same radar station is designed for installation on combat helicopters Z-10. With a great deal of confidence, we can assume that the equipment of the Z-19 helicopters will include various suspension containers with reconnaissance equipment, as well as possibly a light SW-6 UAV.

An interesting feature of this drone is the use of a DC electric motor as a power plant, connected to a two-bladed propeller and powered from a rechargeable battery. The device is disposable, its evacuation and reuse is not provided. According to data released during the Airshow China 2016 aerospace show, the maximum take-off weight of SW6 is 20 kg. Payload mass to 5 kg. Maximum speed - up to 100 km / h. Battery capacity allows you to stay in the air for about 1 hours.


UAV SW-6


A small-sized unmanned vehicle in the transport position with a folded wing occupies the smallest possible volume and can be transported on the external suspension of a helicopter. After a dump, the wings of the drone unfold, and he proceeds to the solution of the task. The SW6 modification demonstrated in the People's Republic of China is equipped with optical-electronic equipment intended for conducting visual reconnaissance. In addition, the UAV in the case of the use of the noise generator can serve as a false target in the conditions of a strong air defense, and when installing a warhead it can act as a locking high-precision ammunition.

At the Airshow China 2016 exhibition, the SW-6 UAV "electric" UAV was demonstrated together with the Changhe Z-11WB light reconnaissance helicopter. In China, this model of the helicopter was given the designation "Buzzard".


Z-11WB


Representatives of the aircraft manufacturing corporation Changhe Aircraft Industries argue that this helicopter was created by Chinese experts on its own. However, in the second half of the 80-x documentation was sent to the PRC for the licensed production of the helicopter Eurocopter AS.350 Ecureuil (rus. Belka). The production of "Squirrel" began in 1977 year and continues to this day. This very successful light helicopter was popular with consumers. Depending on the configuration, its cost in 90-s was $ 2,5-3 million. In total, around 3500 “Ekyreev” was built, in a number of third-world countries modifications are used, armed with an ATGM TOW or NOTES, NAR and machine-gun cannons.

The first flight of the Chinese Ecurea took place in the 1998 year, and two years later mass production began. Initially, when assembling light helicopters Z-11, French engines Turbomeca Arriel 2B hp were installed. But later they were replaced by the Chinese counterpart WZ-847D.



At first, the unarmed Z-11 helicopter was used as a “flying ambulance”, for the delivery of urgent correspondence and VIPs. Since the Chinese army was in dire need of reconnaissance helicopters, monitoring and adjusting artillery fire, they mounted artillery observers and radio stations to communicate with ground units on several vehicles.


Z-11W


In 2005, an armed modification of the Z-11W appeared, with an aiming-viewing system over the cabin and four HJ-8 ATGMs on external pylons. Instead of guided missiles, six-barrel 7,62-mm machine guns of CS / LM12, 40-mm LG3 automatic grenade launchers or blocks with 57-mm NAR could be suspended. The total weight of the combat load can reach 500 kg. It is believed that the armed Z-11W were mainly supplied to the aviation support units of special operations forces. The helicopter with a maximum take-off weight of 2200 kg holds two pilots and three paratroopers. In the fire support version, an additional fuel tank with a capacity of 225 l can be installed in the passenger compartment. The main tank holds 540 liters of kerosene. Without the use of an additional fuel tank, the range is 580 km. Maximum flight speed - 278 km / h. Cruising - 220 km \ h. In general, the flight data of the Chinese Z-11W is very close to the characteristics of the American reconnaissance-attack helicopter OH-58 Kiowa of later modifications.



A further development of the Z-11W was the Z-11WB, equipped with a movable thermal imaging camera and a laser rangefinder-aiming indicator. It is stated that this vehicle is capable of carrying a wide range of weapons: laser, heat and television guided missiles, FT-9 and YZ-212D miniature guided bombs, TY-90 air-to-air missiles and a variety of machine-gun cannons. The machine is designed to counter terrorism, drug trafficking and special operations. The export value of a light attack helicopter capable of conducting combat operations at night, equipped with modern optoelectronic equipment and modern weapon systems, does not exceed $ 9 million, which makes it attractive in the external arms market. It should be recognized that in the creation of light attack helicopters for reconnaissance, target designation and support for special forces, Chinese experts have advanced much further than Russian designers. Obviously, the key to success in this case is the ability to quickly develop and create advanced day-to-day observation and aiming systems coupled with precision weapons.

To be continued ...

Based on:
https://www.airrecognition.com/
https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2313820-1-1.html
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/aft10-hj-10-and-akd-10-akd-09.63151/
http://www.pwc.ca/en/engines/pt6c
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/wz-10.htm
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201611010802-9u2a.htm
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/heli-expo-chinese-wz-10-attack-helicopter-based-on-kamov-design-383147/
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/
http://slideplayer.com/slide/8784664/
http://www.ecns.cn/visual/hd/2017/05-18/130315.shtml
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2015/10/22/harbin-wz-19-attack-helicopter/
http://army-news.ru/2016/11/bespilotnyj-letatelnyj-apparat-sw6-tyan-i/
https://regnum.ru/news/2276381.html
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/changhe-z-11wb-reconnaissance-and-light-attack-helicopter/
Author:
Articles from this series:
Aviation against tanks (part of 1)
Aviation against tanks (part of 2)
Aviation against tanks (part of 3)
Aviation against tanks (part of 4)
Aviation against tanks (part of 5)
Aviation against tanks (part of 6)
Aviation against tanks (part of 7)
Aviation against tanks (part of 8)
Aviation against tanks (part of 9)
Aviation against tanks (part of 10)
Aviation against tanks (part of 11)
Aviation against tanks (part of 12)
Aviation against tanks (part of 13)
Aviation against tanks (part of 14)
Aviation against tanks (part of 15)
Aviation against tanks (part of 16)
Aviation against tanks (part of 17)
Aviation against tanks (part of 18)
Aviation against tanks (part of 19)
Aviation against tanks (part of 20)
40 comments
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  1. Vard
    Vard 16 January 2018 15: 33 New
    +7
    Very advanced cycle ... Respect and respect for the author ...
  2. Amurets
    Amurets 16 January 2018 15: 46 New
    +6
    Sergei! Thank. It seems like China through the "River," but how-not interested in Chinese helicopters.
    In terms of secrecy, we still have to catch up with the Chinese and catch up with us. You are right to classify everything.
    An interesting feature of this drone is the use of a direct current electric motor connected to a two-blade propeller and powered by a rechargeable battery as a power plant.
    Here, it seems to me, there is no beginning of the text. And on the part of batteries and electronics, even in the USA scandals repeatedly flared up. regarding the use of Chinese components in the US military. Previously, the computer magazine Iron wrote about this. This magazine wrote about computer hardware and gadgets. Thanks, interesting.
    1. Bongo
      16 January 2018 15: 59 New
      11
      Quote: Amurets
      Sergei! Thank. It seems like China through the "River," but how-not interested in Chinese helicopters.

      Good evening, Nikolai!
      But more recently, they still flew Mi-4. As for modern Chinese attack helicopters, we would like to hope that we will never see them in our Far Eastern sky.
      Quote: Amurets
      In terms of secrecy, we still have to catch up with the Chinese and catch up with us. You are right to classify everything.

      It makes no sense to compare the Chinese and our systems; now the average wage level in China is higher than in the Russian Federation. The basis of their domestic policy is to increase the well-being of the population, while in our country "budget is full." In addition, the Chinese do not like to brag about their plans. In general, they have a very interesting understanding of "friendship." Radio intelligence reconnaissance aircraft based on the Tu-154 regularly fly along our Far Eastern borders. These are the "friends".
      Quote: Amurets
      Here, it seems to me, there is no beginning of the text.

      Well, no one is perfect ... request
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 16 January 2018 16: 20 New
        +4
        Quote: Bongo
        Well, no one is perfect ...

        For some reason I thought that he was cut out.
        Quote: Bongo
        Radio-technical reconnaissance aircraft based on the Tu-154 regularly fly along our Far Eastern borders. Here are such "friends."

        Well, they verify compliance with the agreement, regarding the withdrawal of troops 100km from the border. laughing
        Quote: Bongo
        It makes no sense to compare the Chinese and our systems, now the average level of salary in the PRC is higher than in the Russian Federation.
        This is already noticeable, as in our region the number of Chinese migrant workers has fallen sharply, and the North Koreans have replaced, but they have also significantly decreased, although they are still working. request
      2. EvgNik
        EvgNik 17 January 2018 13: 03 New
        +4
        Quote: Bongo
        Well, no one is perfect ...

        Hello, Sergey. This is really interesting about Chinese. Virtually no information.
        And the ideal is unattainable in principle. Is that "shuravi" perfect, but carefully hides it.
        1. Bongo
          18 January 2018 13: 47 New
          +3
          Quote: EvgNik
          Hello, Sergey. This is really interesting about Chinese. Virtually no information.

          Eugene, welcome! Sorry for not immediately responding. There is not enough time for everything. Today, Olga and I moved to a new apartment, finally finished the repair.
          Quote: EvgNik
          And the ideal is unattainable in principle. Is that "shuravi" perfect, but carefully hides it.

          So if he hid, but on the contrary a continuous inflating of the cheeks, self-promotion, unwillingness or inability to comprehend what was read and throwing poop. His overruns and seriously no one takes. If earlier they tried to start a dialogue with him, now they mostly ignore it.
          1. EvgNik
            EvgNik 18 January 2018 16: 14 New
            +3
            And rightly so, Sergey, there’s nothing to talk about with him.
            New apartment, well, happiness to you and Olya for many years!
            1. Bongo
              18 January 2018 17: 22 New
              +3
              Quote: EvgNik
              New apartment, well, happiness to you and Olya for many years!

              Thank! And you be healthy!
    2. xetai9977
      xetai9977 17 January 2018 10: 24 New
      +2
      Thanks to the author for conscientious work!
  3. Raphael_83
    Raphael_83 16 January 2018 17: 32 New
    +2
    Not whoever says anything, but the Chinese are great. Yes - they copy, yes - they use already known and ready-made solutions (albeit not the first freshness), but they are developing! Really evolve. Twenty years ago, the phrase "Chinese engine" (it doesn’t matter, ICE, gas turbojet engine, turboshaft, turbojet, automobile, aviation, ship) at the understanding comrades caused a grin at best - due to quality, resource, expense, survivability, durability. And now it’s worth considering it (even if all the other aspects - electronics, avionics, materials, weapons - are not taken into account).
    From SW. hi
    PS
    But with security at "dozens" all the same are full of seams: just look at the dimensions and estimate the thickness of the cabin skin and the engine nacelle, and the glazing - in the side view they have the same trouble as the "Tiger".
    PPS
    By the way, thanks for the last article with “Tiger” - only I heard about two main options. request
    1. Bongo
      16 January 2018 17: 38 New
      +4
      Quote: Raphael_83
      But with security at "dozens" all the same are full of seams: just look at the dimensions and estimate the thickness of the cabin skin and the engine nacelle, and the glazing - in the side view they have the same trouble as the "Tiger".

      Regarding the "Tiger", I would not be so categorical. The share of using composites and synthetic ballistic materials is very high in this machine. Experts of Eurocopter in the past stated that their car is no worse than AN-64А. Is it really so, we can not know, but the reserves, including the increase in body armor on the "Tigre" are very decent.
      Quote: Raphael_83
      By the way, thanks for the last article with “Tiger” - only I heard about two main options.

      drinks
      1. Raphael_83
        Raphael_83 16 January 2018 17: 58 New
        +2
        Quote: Bongo
        The use of composites and synthetic ballistic materials is very high in this machine.

        From this and that, that composites what : Without knowing their exact composition, weaving / laying / impregnation methods and layout with metal elements of the construction, it is difficult to be sure. From the bullets of an army rifleman, a krupnyak, and fragments, he somehow protects, but how to behave by flying at a decent speed at an extinguishing barrage, or with a close break, something serious with ready-made striking elements is a question. Ballistic synthetics, as you know, are quite sensitive to subsequent shortly after the first impacts (figuratively speaking, he survived the first crazy turn on the course, but did not save him from aiming catch-up in the same projection). Although you are right in reserve - with its dry weight and thrust-to-weight ratio there will always be an opportunity to play a thread like a light-alloy-ceramic sandwich. recourse
      2. shuravi
        shuravi 16 January 2018 22: 01 New
        +1
        Quote: Bongo
        Eurocopter experts in the past have stated that their security machine is no worse than AN-64A. [


        That’s for sure, both are protected badly.

        Is it really so, we can’t know, but the reserves, including the increase in armor protection on the Tiger, are very decent.


        Well, and how many of these reserves are in kilograms?
  4. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 16 January 2018 17: 41 New
    +3
    I think the Chinese will still surprise everyone with their new products. They have long gone from blind copying to creative processing of the resulting technologies, which indicates a seriously increased level of Chinese specialists.
  5. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 16 January 2018 18: 14 New
    +5
    1. ((Since the Z-10 helicopter in the future should receive a radar of millimeter range, most likely, work is underway to create an ATGM with a radar seeker.))
    "One" with the "other" may not be connected! That is, the appearance of a sub-muzzle radar does not mean the development of missiles with a semi-active radar seeker ... Although the semi-active radar homing mode can be used: at the initial guidance site to bring the ammunition to the attack line with a "covered" helicopter.
    2. The idea of ​​a helicopter drone was very pleasant! Now I am scratching my head in the search for additional options for using a UAV with a helicopter.
    3: Regarding the 23-mm and 25-mm airguns: what are the Chinese not producing? request 100-mm and 105-mm, 120-mm and 125-mm tank guns; 105-mm and 122-mm, 155-mm and 152-mm howitzers .... and here are the air guns: 23-mm and 25- mm ... Any "things" for your money! "Both yours and ours!"
    And anyway .... the Chinese are “creatively” approaching production! Including electronics ... even on 90, it was noticeable. Sleep-limonet Chinese some "nokia" and "mock" at him! “Nokia” will deliver one “SIM card” to its native, the Chinese - 2-3 .. “Nokia” - a camera, the Chinese - a video camera with a TV. Russia, the 5 generation eroplane, brings one with a creak; the United States, two ... and China, almost immediately 3 pieces. It still promises! Oh, "joyless" I look in the direction of China! negative
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 16 January 2018 18: 58 New
      +4
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      The idea of ​​a helicopter drone was very pleasant! Now I am scratching my head in the search for additional options for using a UAV with a helicopter.

      The idea is generally controversial. Where it is better to use medium UAVs with a normal range / flight time in conjunction with helicopters. Just enhancing the capabilities of combat helicopters to interact with them. Now the Americans have taken this path.
      Well, launching a UAV from a helicopter should probably be left in case the enemy managed to destroy normal target-indicating UAVs.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 17 January 2018 10: 55 New
        +4
        Maybe controversial ... but you always want to have your own, and not beg for a neighbor! "Neighbors" will or will not give, citing urgent and most important fulfillment of super-strategic tasks; and at the very least, but in my "stash" there is something that can be useful urgently ...
        Yes, and to "laser" missiles like "hellfire" or similar UAVs will be a useful application if you need to "highlight" the target yourself with a "sheltered" helicopter.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 17 January 2018 17: 48 New
          +2
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          but you always want to have your own, and not beg for a neighbor!

          Not really a "neighbor." The Americans have UAVs for helicopters in another squadron of the same AA battalion
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 17 January 2018 18: 25 New
            +2
            Well, well ..... That’s the Americans, and then the Chinese ... who loves pork ribs, and who loves Peking duck wink
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 17 January 2018 20: 26 New
              +2
              I'm not sure that the Chinese will not do the same.
              Still, Temka is painfully promising. Medium UAVs are generally quite vulnerable to electronic warfare. And controlling them from the helicopter practically removes the problem. Directional antenna, in fact direct line of sight, it is difficult to suppress. And when using, for example, laser solutions, it is completely impossible. Do not smoke UAVs.
              On the other hand, such UAVs significantly increase the combat capabilities of combat helicopters.
              Here's an option, now the rumor has it that it is rumored that it can simultaneously control four drones. Two reconnaissance, two "stupid but lifting" shock, working as a platform for guided weapons. All this turns such a “link” into a rather powerful force. Moreover, helicopters can be replaced during combat duty in the air, passing the UAV to the changer.
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 18 January 2018 02: 18 New
                +2
                Quote: Spade
                On the other hand, such UAVs significantly increase the combat capabilities of combat helicopters.

                Certainly ... for example, if the combat situation changes and the helicopter crews receive a mission for military operations in the "underdeveloped" area or, in the course of the combat mission, find themselves in an "unfamiliar" place, it’s a "nice thing" (!), send "their" drones for reconnaissance, so as not to run into an ambush and not get a line from the DShK or "zushka" in the barrel ... "stinger" in the back wink
    2. Amurets
      Amurets 17 January 2018 14: 43 New
      +2
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      And anyway .... the Chinese are “creatively” approaching production! Including electronics ... back in the 90s it was noticeable.

      Europeans and Americans approached this very creatively, in pursuit of cheap labor, they transferred many industries and technologies to the PRC:
      "At present, China has the following 6 free economic zones, 4 of which are located on the southeast coast of the country:
      Shantou SEZ - (more than 3000 projects involving foreign capital in the field of petrochemicals, port and other infrastructure, clothing, footwear and electronics. 95% of foreign investment comes from Chinese compatriots from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore).
      SEZ Shenzhen - (over 17,5 thousand enterprises, 85% of which are invested in Hong Kong. The main areas of investment are nuclear energy, electronics, engineering, infrastructure, finance, high technology).
      SEZ Zhuhai - (more than 4980 enterprises with foreign investments. Investments are directed to services, heavy industry, electronics, port and road construction, etc. 80% of the capital is investments from Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan and Singapore).
      Xiamen SEZ - (over 4150 enterprises with foreign capital, of which 80% are investments from Taiwan. The main investment sectors are electronics, textiles, food processing, and the chemical industry).
      Hainan SEZ - (more than 7320 enterprises, the total volume of contract investments - 22,3 billion US dollars).
      The new Pudong district (created in 1990, an integral part of Shanghai - has over 5400 projects in the automotive industry, electronics, instrumentation, telecommunications, high technology, energy). "Http://newinspire.ru/lektsii-po-mirovoy-ekonomike
      / osobie-svobodnie-ekonomicheskie-zoni-v-kitae-168
      8
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 17 January 2018 16: 24 New
        +7
        Actually, I spoke about the Chinese "creativity" with a small amount of irony ... I just remembered how I got into the hands of a Chinese mobile phone, "named" by the name of a famous model of a well-known European company ... only a letter was added at the end of the model name. .. And in this Chinese “clone” there were 2 “SIM cards” and “TV”; while, in the “brand” there was only one “SIM card” and without a “TV” .. A month later the mobile phone broke down .. It happened the opinion that the “Chinese” break so often not only because they are made in “reed sheds with an earthen floor”; but also due to the fact that they are often overloaded with functions. But the reasons for ironizing over the “Chinese” were “more than enough” in the 90 years Starting from the “zero”, the reason for “ironizing” is becoming less and less every year. Yes, the “formation” of the Chinese economy was due to the generous investments of the USA, EU ; due to the transfer of production and technology to China. The reasons for this are varied and it is not necessary to “describe” them all. But much depends (and depended) on the Chinese. The Chinese clutched at everything, nothing was lost from them! They sought to become industrial, high-tech. They not only acquired licenses and often stole technologies ... They very often “reworked” them ... (maybe they did it also because it was more difficult for them to make claims of “illegal plagiarism”). What there is “Nokia” with 2-3 “sims!” They slammed “Smerch” and added eres with satellite correction much earlier than the Russian military-industrial complex! And that's all in a similar “spirit.” There are economic zones in Russia, but I, for one, do not I notice that they are "boiling violently," as in China. And if you compare foreign investment in Russian zones with Chinese .... I think that the comparison will be it’s not in Russia's favor. And why ??? After all, Russia also had a chance to become like China! I remember how a certain high-ranking economist-expert painted the future prosperity of Russia with watercolors: supposedly experienced, highly qualified in Russia (unlike China) manpower, but much cheaper than in Europe, the United States, therefore, investments, technologies, production should “flood” into Russia! And where is all this? A “complete embarrassment” has turned out! And could it have happened? maybe !!!. But from the very beginning, investors "faced" with flagrant corruption, embezzlement, bribery, a mess
        m in law. lawlessness at all state and non-state levels. "Our" bribe takers, lawless people outdid the Chinese! It got to the point that foreign businessmen "complained": "A Chinese official" will ask for "a bribe in $ 3.000 and he will do everything! And a Russian official will take $ 50.000 and will do nothing!" I also remember the case when Russian traders working with China tearfully asked the Racean government not to let Chinese traders come to Russia to trade ... they say they are strangling us with dumping prices! They began to sort it out ... it turned out that the Chinese merchant considers the business profitable enough if he gets 3-5 kopecks for each invested ruble (he will take his "superprofits" from the "jet" turnover). The Russian "businessman" will invest in the business. if the invested ruble receives 2-3 ruble profits and as soon as possible! You can, of course, "ask", "look" at China ... you can "dislike" the Chinese or envy them, but ... there’s nothing to blame for the mirror if the face is crooked ...
        1. Razvedka_Boem
          Razvedka_Boem 17 January 2018 18: 07 New
          +3
          But the reasons for ironizing over the “Chinese” were “more than enough” in the 90s. Starting with the “zero”, the reason for “ironizing” is becoming less and less every year.

          I can add that I think to buy Redmi from Xiaomi.
          The Chinese have a 4000 mAh battery, such capacious batteries, non-Chinese have not yet set.
          Even our Artel is still limited to 3000 mA.
        2. Amurets
          Amurets 17 January 2018 23: 18 New
          +2
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          Actually, I spoke about the Chinese "creativity" with a small amount of irony ...

          Yes, everything is correct and your thoughts are correct, and I caught the irony. I want to say something else. The Chinese understand all this. Sergei expressed concern: "But more recently, they still had Mi-4s flying. As for modern Chinese attack helicopters, we hope that we will never see them in our Far Eastern sky." Most likely, the answer lies in the reports of a quarter ago: you need to look at the Gemin Ribao newspaper and the East of Russia portal. Dates October 28-November 3, 2017. Li Keqiang Medvedev: “Your visit demonstrates the closeness of Russia and China”
          Policy
          Medvedev became the first foreign leader to visit China after the XNUMXth Communist Party Congress
          Details: https://regnum.ru/news/2340549.html
          Any use of materials is allowed only with a hyperlink
          on IA REGNUM. "The second link to the site" East of Russia "
          https://www.eastrussia.ru/ Вот на этот визит надо обратить внимание, он широко не освещался в наших СМИ
          The Chinese would like to develop, mainly this is the Khabarovsk Territory, but applies to the entire Far East: timber processing and forest chemistry, high-quality metallurgy, primarily electrometallurgy, petrochemicals Well, if you are interested in this, I gave you the links. Talk about mining and its attendant was generally not conducted. All projects have long been underway. At the moment, China is interested in high-tech projects.
      2. DimerVladimer
        DimerVladimer 18 January 2018 12: 54 New
        +2

        I have been.
        For example, a photo from the economic district of Shanghai - the two largest auto enterprises - VW and GM are located here.
        Every 1.5-2 minutes, such a car transporter takes out products and sets off on a journey around the country.
        In addition, this cluster has a chic auto museum.
  6. Alexandra
    Alexandra 16 January 2018 20: 27 New
    +1
    Quote: Bongo
    Regarding the "Tiger", I would not be so categorical. The share of using composites and synthetic ballistic materials is very high in this machine. Experts of Eurocopter in the past stated that their car is no worse than AN-64А. Is it really so, we can not know, but the reserves, including the increase in body armor on the "Tigre" are very decent.




    This is how we see in life those protective composite pink boards that in the figure cover the bodies of the pilot and operator, so we will see the armor on the Tiger.
  7. gladcu2
    gladcu2 16 January 2018 20: 41 New
    +5
    In the last 3-4 years, he began to meet the Chinese with a high level of self-confidence. This is primarily due to pride in their nation. Not without reason.
    By the way, it’s nice to deal with them.

    About 10 years ago, the Chinese positioned themselves as cornered animals. A minimum of independence.

    And to the topic of nations. "Former citizen of USSR", sounds proud and respectful.
  8. Lexus
    Lexus 16 January 2018 20: 46 New
    +4
    The Chinese are very painstaking and purposeful comrades. Thank you for the interesting cycle in general and this article in particular. hi good
  9. EvilLion
    EvilLion 16 January 2018 20: 46 New
    +1
    The key to creating all kinds of ersatz-rubbish is the inability to do well and lack of funds.
  10. The comment was deleted.
    1. zyablik.olga
      zyablik.olga 17 January 2018 00: 09 New
      +6
      Quote: shuravi
      The author was going to re-copy all advertising materials here.

      The dog barks and the caravan moves on.
      1. EvgNik
        EvgNik 17 January 2018 12: 54 New
        +4
        Hello Olya love It would be necessary to count how many times “shuravi” repeated his phrase, the last argument of a drowned man. As the first time appeared, and hammer like a parrot.
        1. zyablik.olga
          zyablik.olga 17 January 2018 17: 58 New
          +3
          Quote: EvgNik
          Hello Olya

          Hello, Eugene!
          Quote: EvgNik
          It would be necessary to count how many times “shuravi” repeated his phrase, the last argument of a drowned man. As the first time appeared, and hammer like a parrot.

          He was repeatedly offered to write his own article, especially since he positions himself as a great professional with a great flying and combat experience. But apparently watering the surrounding mud is easier than doing something yourself. I have great respect for people who fought, but no one in their right mind would scream about it. And no matter what your merits are, it is much more important for a person to remain a person.
          1. EvgNik
            EvgNik 18 January 2018 07: 18 New
            +2
            Hello, hello! love He is the same on the poem, does not respect those who fought alongside, and from the Afghans I have friends there. He doesn’t. Biryuk.
            Quote: zyablik.olga
            it’s much more important that a person remains a person

            That’s it, Olya. The main component.
  11. Nikolay R-PM
    Nikolay R-PM 16 January 2018 22: 50 New
    +6
    I do not agree with the author that the absence of sighting systems is the main reason that hinders the development of light helicopters in our army aviation. In my opinion, the reasons are different - their niche is not determined from the point of view of the military customer and the lack of a domestic engine.
    It looks like China chose the American way to solve the problem of placing radar on board a helicopter. It’s interesting, the sub-radar radars rotate with the reverse part of the screw or they have their own drives. Judging by the photo on the network, the longbow radar rotates at the same time with the sleeve (I can be wrong) at a frequency of about 290-300 rpm, the n025 radar has a drive that deflects the antenna in elevation (again, judging by the photo), the characteristic "time review "- no more than 025 sec. Those. H1 has a different rotational speed than HB? Did any of the members of the forum deal with this issue? It would be interesting to talk.
    But just recently they still had Mi-4s flying

    Sergey, your mention of the Chinese mi-4 (aka z-5) reminded me of a small article in the journal "Aviation and Cosmonautics" on the last flight of the z-5 in Europe. I read it back in high school. Today I spent the whole evening searching for this note with pleasure flipping through the deja vuja and still found it - number 1 for 2004. Nakrylr was just a seven-meter wave of nostalgia for the time when each issue of this magazine talked about our and foreign technology.
    1. KKND
      KKND 17 January 2018 20: 49 New
      +1
      Quote: Nikolay R-PM
      "Aviation and Cosmonautics" dedicated to the last flight of the z-5 in Europe. I read it back in high school. Today I spent the whole evening searching for this note with pleasure flipping through the deja vuja and still found it - number 1 for 2004. Nakrylr was just a seven-meter wave of nostalgia for the time when each issue of this magazine talked about our and foreign technology.

      Just recently began to read numbers for 2014-15. I’ll ask you as an oldfag, has the magazine become worse as always, or can you still read?
      1. Nikolay R-PM
        Nikolay R-PM 18 January 2018 07: 40 New
        +2
        It’s hard to say for sure. I read A&K as a student, and after urgency and employment I left him. In any case, very interesting cycles were published there, for example, about helicopter records or about instant 23/27. In what condition he is now, I can’t say, but you pushed me to compare. I look through and unsubscribe) there was still a cool magazine aviation and time, but it’s Ukrainian and I don’t even know with it now
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 18 January 2018 13: 34 New
          +2
          Quote: Nikolay R-PM
          there was still a cool magazine aviation and time, but it’s Ukrainian and what I don’t even know with it

          Alive. On Ridley there is truth in bulk. You need to look in the libraries. Here's a couple of addresses for you. Http://readli.net/avtor/ZHurnal-Aviatsiya
          -i-vremya /
          https://profilib.net/kniga/133175/zhurnal-aviatsi
          ya-i-vremya-1995-01.php
  12. shuravi
    shuravi 17 January 2018 21: 10 New
    +5
    I accused the author of stupidly copying advertising materials and that’s all.
    I repent and am forced to take my words back. For when the "creator" begins to "analyze" and draw "conclusions", this is generally something.
    Even for such an unprofessional site.
    So:

    After normalizing relations with Russia, the Chinese were offered an export Mi-35. However, by that time, Chinese experts had already become familiar with the widespread Mi-25 (an export version of the Mi-24D combat helicopter) and found it too heavy and cumbersome. In addition, the sighting and search systems of Soviet combat helicopters are largely outdated. And the Mi-24 itself, which was created as a “flying infantry fighting vehicle”, was more often used as an attack aircraft, the main weapon of which was unguided rockets, and the PLA command wanted to have a maneuverable and at the same time well-protected two-seater comparable to the American “ Apache ”and with high anti-tank potential.


    First of all, the Chinese were not interested in buying helicopters as such, but in the license for their production. But it is clear that no one will transmit Mi-24 to them.
    Secondly, even today, the Rainbow guidance device is fully capable of finding targets and guiding ATGMs. ASP-17В together with a laser range finder also fully provides targeted shooting.
    I understand that the "dummies", having read nonsense from the Internet, are fan of helmet-mounted sights. Not knowing that it is suitable except for controlling the SPPU, which is far from the main armament of the helicopter. Yes, and really does not give any advantages.
    Thirdly, if during combat sorties, the Mi-24 used NAR + cannon (machine gun) more, because it was the nature of the target and the hostilities, and not the problems of the helicopter. Although. in the same Chechnya, ATGMs, especially with high-explosive warheads, were very actively used. The author of these lines himself spent them four at a time.
    Fourth, the Mi-24 was not created as a flying BMP, it was a response to the American AN-1 and was built on the same principle. That is, using the best practices of the existing multi-purpose machine, in our case, the Mi-8T. The cargo compartment was the result of free space during the layout.
    Because. Mi-24 was only used in experiments to study the issue of flying BMP. But since the result was negative, the work was stopped.
    Moreover, even Mi-24, which are part of the DShBR, were not used to transport personnel. Used only as combat helicopters.
    Fifth. AN-64 can not be called a well-protected helicopter, in this it is much inferior to Mi-24. Besides. he does not have any special anti-tank potential.

    It should be recognized that in creating light attack helicopters for reconnaissance, target designation and support of special forces, Chinese specialists have advanced much further than Russian designers. Obviously, the key to success in this case is the ability to quickly develop and create advanced all-day surveillance and sighting systems associated with high-precision weapons.


    It should be recognized. that the author is completely off topic. If only because neither the USSR nor the Russian Federation is seriously engaged in the creation of light combat ones. For that simple reason. that a light car due to the scarcity of ammunition and other characteristics can only be effective under the control of a highly professional crew. But the thing is. that such a crew is best used on a full-fledged combat helicopter. For the crew. This is the most expensive part of the aviation complex.
    In other words, a light helicopter. it is the weapon of the poor, or those. whoever, on the contrary, has such a reserve reserve of flight personnel that it can be spent without reckoning with losses.
    It should also be noted. that the concept of army aviation in the USA and the USSR / RF is fundamentally different. If in the USA they can put pilots in the cockpit after a sergeant’s school, then we have highly trained specialists, pilot-engineers and navigator-engineers. And put them in under-helicopters, idiocy.
    And sighting systems have nothing to do with it.
  13. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 18 January 2018 12: 41 New
    +2
    Well done Chinese.
    Not bad copy military developments.
    Gaining experience own helicopter school.