Military Review

Media: China has begun construction of a third aircraft carrier

124
China began construction of its third aircraft carrier at a shipyard in Shanghai last year, the South China Morning Post reported, citing military sources.


At the moment, in service with the Chinese Navy there is only the aircraft carrier "Liaoning", created on the basis of the Soviet cruiser "Varyag". In April last year, China launched its second aircraft carrier, which became the first ship of this class of its own production. It is expected to be commissioned this year.

Media: China has begun construction of a third aircraft carrier


According to a source, the shipyard Shanghai Jiangnan Shipyard Group received the go-ahead to start building a new ship after the annual session of the country's highest legislative body, the All-China People’s Assembly in March last year.

The plant is still working on the ship's hull, and it is expected to take about two years.
- said the source. As noted, it is too early to say when the third aircraft carrier will be launched.

Earlier it was suggested that the new aircraft carrier will receive a nuclear power plant and new-fangled electromagnetic catapults like those that are going to equip the latest US aircraft carriers. However, according to the publication, this will not happen.

It is impossible to develop a completely new ship in a few years. In addition to technology, it is also necessary to train personnel and pilots. Therefore, "Type 002" will use fuel oil and steam
- said Beijing military expert Li Jie.
Photos used:
http://www.globallookpress.com/
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  1. NEXUS
    NEXUS 5 January 2018 14: 33 New
    34
    But we are finishing everything Nakhimov ... about the new destroyers and cruisers with aircraft carriers are generally silent. But we vote about strengthening the coastal zone with three throats, and more than frigates, we do not want to build ships in the new program. Our fleet will be smuggled together with the largest icebreaking fleet ... and why? And because these are the grandmas who appeared on the horizon when hydrocarbons were dug up on the Lomonosov shelf ... that’s the whole story.
    1. newcomer
      newcomer 5 January 2018 14: 56 New
      +8
      I agree. but plans 18/25 fully provide for the modernization and acceptance of new weapons past Syria. actually about 3 trillion is allocated to the Fleet. these are RTOs, corvettes and frigates. also on the “treatment” of Nakhimov, Peter with Moscow and Kuzi. the rest, for the other needs of the Fleet: airplanes, helicopters ...
      1. Going
        Going 5 January 2018 15: 05 New
        +3
        The speeds are certainly impressive, but whether they can put them into operation so quickly - my opinion is Wishlist, even the crew will not have time to prepare, let alone become a combat unit.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 5 January 2018 15: 18 New
          +8
          Well, they are crews on the 4-5 frigates and the 2-3 annual destroyers. Moreover, they have the best stand - Liaolin, and in 2017 he was actively running.
      2. Alex777
        Alex777 5 January 2018 15: 09 New
        +5
        "Nakhimov" is not so much treated as they are tested on it by all those types of weapons that will be put on the ships of the ocean zone by the same Leader. And if all goes well, Petra will also be modernized. hi
        1. newcomer
          newcomer 5 January 2018 15: 24 New
          +3
          it is expected that both Nakhimov and Petra after modernization will be sea Zircons. even more than that, it is supposed to install Zircons and frigates with corvettes, will also “teach the SU35 to yearn for Zircons.
        2. PSih2097
          PSih2097 5 January 2018 20: 12 New
          +6
          Quote: Alex777
          which will put on the ships of the ocean zone the same Leader.

          forget about “Leader” and AB for at least 10 years, so long as the country is ruled by banks, nothing will happen ...
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 11 January 2018 07: 25 New
            +1
            Leaders will begin to build in 2016 on the NE.
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 11 January 2018 19: 55 New
              +1
              2026 of course ... laughing
        3. Evgeniy667b
          Evgeniy667b 6 January 2018 07: 25 New
          +3
          Yes, what kind of "Leader" is there, who will build it. USE victims or migrant workers from Tajikistan ??? The whole trouble of Russia is that general worship of the golden calf and especially the despicable green waste paper from a puddle !!! Consumers are unhappy! Until a change in consciousness takes place, everything else can be forgotten. There are still relics of the era of socialism, but we have enough of VO who still hope for something, but time works against us. Today, traders, hucksters spawn a point! I always felt moral satisfaction from the fact that all the ships of the project mentioned in Nick went with the results of my labors, and they were already cut. .
      3. Alf
        Alf 5 January 2018 16: 05 New
        +3
        Quote: newbie
        but plans 18/25 completely provide

        And these plans include the phrase “No money?” Or how a couple of years ago, someone shouted that the budget of the Moscow Region is protected, and then this budget was sequestered?
        1. newcomer
          newcomer 5 January 2018 16: 19 New
          +4
          already sequestered as much as they could. MO requested 30 trillion. allocated 19 with a tail. and this is already considered the victory of the power bloc over the liberals. MO requested 30, taking into account the development of weapons on Nav. principles, Barguzin, PAK YES. expected in this period only in small batches of SU57, MIG35, T14, T15, Boomerang. everything else as before.
          1. MOSKVITYANIN
            MOSKVITYANIN 6 January 2018 01: 13 New
            +1
            Quote: newbie
            already sequestered as much as they could. MO requested 30 trillion. allocated 19 with a tail. and this is already considered the victory of the power bloc over the liberals. MO requested 30, taking into account the development of weapons on Nav. principles, Barguzin, PAK YES. expected in this period only in small batches of SU57, MIG35, T14, T15, Boomerang. everything else as before.

            Why should you allocate the entire state budget for the RF Ministry of Defense, do not burst? And the country will burst ...
            1. Alf
              Alf 6 January 2018 18: 10 New
              +1
              Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
              don't burst? And the country will burst ...

              And those whose joint state exceeds the budget of Russia will not burst?
    2. hrych
      hrych 5 January 2018 15: 05 New
      +6
      Quote: NEXUS
      And we are finishing Nakhimov ...

      But we finish off the fourth Borey and the second Ash-tree. By the way, Nakhimov did drinks

      Quote: NEXUS
      at the same time we have the largest icebreaker fleet, ... and why?

      Because the coastline along the arctic ocean and its icy seas, in length, has no analogues in the world. This is, in fact, our main shore. And also there are our main components of one of the components of the nuclear triad. Besides mineral resources there is a fish, there is still the Northern Sea Route.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 5 January 2018 15: 09 New
        11
        China restored (or rather completely rebuilt) the Bohai shipyard and put it into operation. There 7 (SEVEN!) Parallel branches for the construction of any type of nuclear submarines.
        1. KaPToC
          KaPToC 6 January 2018 19: 36 New
          0
          Quote: donavi49
          China restored (or rather completely rebuilt) the Bohai shipyard and put it into operation. There 7 (SEVEN!) Parallel branches for the construction of any type of nuclear submarines.

          To "plan" ships like China, you must first "plan" children like the Chinese, and then when they grow up, something will happen. I note that our backlog was laid back in the days of the USSR, which everyone loves to praise.
          1. Alf
            Alf 6 January 2018 19: 55 New
            +2
            Quote: KaPToC
            To "plan" ships like China, you must first "plan" children like the Chinese,

            First you need to change the system in the country so that the money of Russia will work for Russia, and not for the Fed. And then there will be no problems with ships and money and people.
            1. KaPToC
              KaPToC 6 January 2018 21: 25 New
              0
              Quote: Alf
              First you need to change the system in the country so that the money of Russia will work for Russia, and not for the Fed. And then there will be no problems with ships and money and people.

              That is, nothing depends on people? Build - the main thing? The main thing - the correct system - and we can do without people ?!
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 5 January 2018 15: 24 New
        +7
        Quote: hrych
        But we finish the fourth Borey and the second Ash-tree

        Just like Sukhov-Borei say? And why not cover them? One and a half Ash? So for a moment the mattresses already have 13 multi-purpose Virgins and Elks, unlike the number of our multi-purpose ones. Joy, that is, but only, somehow nifiga is not joyful, looking at the construction dates and at the ratio of our submarines to mattresses. But not only the USA took up arms against us.
        Quote: hrych
        Because the coastline along the arctic ocean and its icy seas, in length, has no analogues in the world.

        Well, other approaches can get crushed ... and we build new ships for the fleet on the residual principle, that is, as Kazan orphans a year on a teaspoon.
        1. hrych
          hrych 5 January 2018 15: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: NEXUS
          So for a moment the mattresses already have 13 multi-purpose Virgins and Elks

          But the barge ... wassat

          Do not forget Pike-B and Anthea, plus a little titanium. And our Varshavyanochki today can do a lot. But Borea needs to be covered up when leaving the base, and there he will figure it out, he is a ghost and has such a speed that he cannot be intercepted, he is not inferior to almost multi-purpose ones and the KR itself can beat, pretend to be a multi-purpose one. And how can we talk about the residual principle, if, first of all, how the time of the EBN ended, then the nuclear missile carriers rushed to build.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 5 January 2018 16: 02 New
            +7
            Quote: hrych
            Do not forget Pike-B and Antei

            Oh, yes, Pike-B and Antey ... and excuse me how many of them are in service, do not tell me how much is waiting for either repair or modernization, and most importantly, what time?
            Quote: hrych
            plus a little titanium

            Oh you ... Barakuda decided not to upgrade. Alas and ah.
            Quote: hrych
            And our Varshavyanochki today can do a lot.

            Varshavyanki, by virtue of their low-speed, are ambush diesel-electric submarines, which are good for sealing straits and approaches.
            Quote: hrych
            But Borea needs to be covered when leaving the base, and there he will figure it out,

            No ... Borea, as one of the components of the nuclear triad, it should cover itself all the way, otherwise, they’ll be put to the bottom and there’s nothing to answer to the adversary. And for every Borey or Dolphin, at least two multipurpose ones are needed to cover, not DEPL with 30 days at sea and 24 knots at maximum speed.
            Quote: hrych
            he is a ghost and his speed is such that it cannot be intercepted, he is not inferior to almost all-purpose people, and the KR itself can beat, pretend to be a multi-purpose man.

            Well, yes, he probably can ... but only he is slightly off on this part. His main task, in the event of a nuclear strike against us, is to answer the nits with their main caliber, and not to fight the adversary’s multi-purpose forces.
            Quote: hrych
            And how can we talk about the residual principle, if, first of all, how the time of the EBN ended, then the nuclear missile carriers rushed to build.

            But don’t you know that the nuclear fleet is getting old. What did the Dolphins do for 30 years, with the subsequent replacement with something newer and more modern? Under the USSR, we had the largest submarine fleet in the world ... and take a look at how many submarines remained after the Mechenny, then after the EBN ... And as a result, we are now well in the role of catching up.
            1. hrych
              hrych 5 January 2018 16: 11 New
              0
              Yes, calmly, while the ICBMs are standing (walking), but they are not standing, but are exchanging for new ones, spit on all the fleets of the world, we are invulnerable to the enemy. Now that, thanks to the powerful ZGRLS, the surface fleet is being monitored in real time, it is possible to direct the BR, what the Chinese and we are doing, in general, the construction of large ships is a waste of time and money.
              1. Viktor.12.71
                Viktor.12.71 6 January 2018 11: 53 New
                0
                Technologies do not stand still. The United States and China are developing spacecraft for near space, and for the first time in a number of years they have been testing their X-37 since 2002. And so, they are preparing the XS-1 for launch. The militarization of space began about 20 years ago. Nuclear weapons will become obsolete as soon as space interceptors appear, and the one who has them will be the first on horseback.
                1. hrych
                  hrych 6 January 2018 12: 10 New
                  0
                  Quote: Viktor.12.71
                  Nuclear weapons will become obsolete as soon as space interceptors appear, and on the horse the one with whom they will be the first

                  Do not invent, this is a miserable parody of the SDI, which did not exist at all, and BBs were not maneuvering and their only, but effective defense was false goals. Those. a parody of emptiness. They have one hope for hypersonic Raman scattering, but we are ahead of them with experience in supersonic Raman scattering, which they lack. The promising MiG-41 is also responsible for the near space. The Russian Federation is creating a "Rudolph" mobile anti-satellite strike complex. Nudol has anti-satellite specialization. And our superiority in electronic warfare recognized by America is preparing systems to disable space radio-electronic systems. Destruction is always simpler and cheaper. with a creaking development, they are already useless against our anti-satellite systems.
                  1. Viktor.12.71
                    Viktor.12.71 6 January 2018 12: 18 New
                    +1
                    All that you listed is an empty phrase. The USSR would have mastered these projects, but Russia, from which even its banks began to rustle, could not master this, the economy could not stand it. Everything rests on the economy.
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 6 January 2018 12: 30 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Viktor.12.71
                      USSR would ...

                      ... "would" interfere like pillars ...
                      Quote: Viktor.12.71
                      Russia from which even its banks began rustling.

                      * wараhutьXia.
                      Three in one (R) word is cool. I have not seen such a thing.
                      So who is where ... shy? wink
                      1. Viktor.12.71
                        Viktor.12.71 6 January 2018 14: 19 New
                        0
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        So who is where ... shy? wink

                        To rustle is to walk from side to side. Thank you for correcting, I forgot to put a soft sign.
                    2. hrych
                      hrych 6 January 2018 14: 51 New
                      0
                      Quote: Viktor.12.71
                      your cans

                      This is not their own, but the Rothschild. If you are talking about Alfa Bank, the USSR should not be idealized, they screwed up a lot there, missed the era of informatization, you couldn’t put a lousy wired phone, wait 10 years, etc. When the West introduced wireless communication.
                      And an empty phrase is what you brought, all the more, you cited as an example the Chinese, who were 50 years behind in space, while their Gagarin and Leonov were launched. And Nasavian projects like our bast shoes, which were recognized as unpromising by the USSR back in 1973, by the way the Great and mighty USSR, are not the Russian Federation, so let the guys move to a standstill, they need to have time to devour grants before this gang is broken up. Therefore, nothing new, and even this nonsense is by no means capable of intercepting warheads, all the more promising, the near space is such a huge thing, and you can move in it according to special laws, and not like in the atmosphere, there’s only a return to the airfield on your own, more pluses before the Union no. Nudol has already been tested, not born from scratch, and the modernized Amur was adopted by the Russian Federation in 1995, and Nudol passed all successful tests in 2013. Therefore, with phrases such as "empty sound" be careful. In the presence of transatmospheric interception missiles, both close-range and long-range missiles with a nuclear warhead, they are missile defense systems, including anti-satellite specialization. Rudolph is included in the new weapons program.
                      1. Viktor.12.71
                        Viktor.12.71 6 January 2018 15: 59 New
                        +1
                        Without economics, this is all an empty phrase; there is no point in arguing. China has already overtaken Russia economic, overseas overtaken. In 2017, the number of launches of carriers of the PRC and the Russian Federation is the same. And in terms of GDP, Russia lags behind China by 11 times.
                    3. hrych
                      hrych 6 January 2018 18: 42 New
                      +1
                      What do you think the whole amount laughing One flight to the ISS and its program are worth all the Chinese launches combined. GDP, generally a stupid figure, convinced you a sharpie, and you and your ears hung laughing
                      Here is an example for development
                      In short, it is clear to any more or less thinking person that the GDP criterion does not express anything and does not say anything, but it helps to push the natives. For example, when white people pulled Bulgaria, they popularly explained that GDP growth is good, it is the highest meaning of life, and in order to raise GDP, it is necessary to carry out privatization - to sell to those who have money everything they can - nuclear power plants, electric networks , sewer, water supply, land, etc. Bulgaria's GDP has skyrocketed! Still, after all, assets that existed earlier but belonged to natives who did not know how to use them in the market were instantly included in the market turnover. And then rex-pex-fex, blah blah blah about investment, and locals in Bulgaria have nothing. The water supply system belongs to the Austrians, the power plants to the Germans, the power supply to the Czechs. The British bought the land (and maybe not the British, who bought it, bought it through Cyprus). The VVP grew, and the Bulgarians were left with their bare ass.
                      But nothing, is there any skin on the pope yet? So they began to rip her off. Previously, electricity was Bulgarian, and the Bulgarians paid a penny for it. Moreover, they exported it to the EU and Turkey. And then their power plants in the process of increasing GDP became German, and the Germans decided to bury the Bulgarian energy sector. They explained to the locals that nuclear power plants are bad, it is necessary to build wind generators and solar power plants. After all, locals were taken to the EU, and according to EU standards they should receive 16% of electricity from environmentally friendly sources. And “green electricity is 10 times more expensive!” And when the Bulgarians received electricity bills, they howled and rushed to rally. The government had to use the money that it received from the sale of nuclear power plants to gradually mitigate shock energy therapy. Check out the beauty of the brilliant operation: at first the Bulgarians sold their energy to the Westerners, then they gave them the proceeds, and something about 37 billion euros still remained in the terminal. Now the Bulgarians are accustomed to and pay for the light regularly 10 times more than before. And this is wonderful, because the contribution of the electric power industry to the country's GDP has grown! The funniest thing here is that electricity production has fallen and GDP has grown! This is real magic!
                      True, the Bulgarians themselves from such happiness began to flee the country. Previously, there were 9 million, now 7 million remain, of which the Bulgarians themselves are only 5 million, and the rest are gypsies and Turks. But here there is reason for joy, because GDP is expressed not only in absolute figures, but also per capita. So if your GDP falls, but the population decreases even faster, it means that per capita GDP is growing. So everything is fine! Bulgaria is on the right track! Agriculture has died, the chemical industry has died, science has died, the people living in the hinterland live by candlelight, the country is deep in debt, but "the dynamics are positive," as Western economic shamans say, counting their milk yield ... "

                      Here is another example of defense spending, the United States has 600 billion a year, we allegedly have 70 billion dollars, but the main problem is that we do not purchase rubles and domestic economic laws, military equipment of the Russian Federation abroad, and in fact, a real allocation gives the equivalent of 300 billion bucks a year, and given that the United States has a lot to maintain thousands of bases around the world, it’s almost parity, hence we scare them with the number of aircraft, ICBMs and missiles launched, and more underwater nuclear missile carriers, we’ll have a fourth soon to the fleet, and the United States has the latest and newest, entered service 20 years ago. So we build further, the fifth will be launched soon, and they don’t even have a project. The Chinese with submarines and ICBMs are in utter trouble, but this is a separate issue. Therefore, do not listen to the Gaidar economists and their concepts, there is an utter lie. The Russian Federation is one of the most powerful industrial powers, with the strongest strategic nuclear forces and nuclear weapons, both in quantity and in quality. The leading country in the nuclear industry and lo and behold, the first in grain export in 2017. And agricultural exports exceeded arms exports, which are second only to the United States, and say that Russia is not an agricultural power.
                      1. Viktor.12.71
                        Viktor.12.71 6 January 2018 19: 04 New
                        +4
                        Well yes. The USA built over 2017 F-265s in 35. The aircraft carrier CVN-78 Gerald R. Ford, two ships of the Arly Burke type DDG-114 Ralph Johnson and the DDG-115 Rafael Peralta, type Freedom, were also commissioned. "LCS-10" Gabrielle Giffords "(Gabrielle Giffords), LCS-12" Omaha "(Omaha). Nuclear-powered vessels type Virginia SSN-787 Washington (Washington), SSN-788 Colorado (Colorado). And you write that the Americans did not build anything in 2017? The export of agricultural products in Russia amounted to 20 billion dollars, and Belarus showed 6 billion, and for the same Ukraine, the income from export of agricultural products amounted to 27 billion, where 11 billion export to Europe !. Holland, the smallest European country, exported agricultural products worth 100 billion euros. What are you proud of?
                    4. hrych
                      hrych 6 January 2018 19: 53 New
                      +1
                      And you took into account the export of our aircraft, so we produced 600 Su-30s at the end of last year. And again, we forget that the whole West is involved in the production and design of f-35, including Israel and Japan. And Russia alone, alone and not inferior. I repeat, our SNF and TNW are superior to all taken together and do not care about everything else. We made 100 Yars, and how many did they make the ICBMs? I’ll tell you, not one, but after all, we still got a mace for 48 of them already on duty. To each his own, yes, they rely on aviation, and we rely on missiles, but believe me, aviation, especially strategic, and tactical, are in perfect order with us. I am proud of my Motherland and the first place for wheat export is a great achievement of the regime, because The USSR with the “granary” bought wheat from beginning to end and could not feed itself. And you just like to defecate on our state, which already in the 21st century captured the Greater Caucasus Range and Crimea, wiped out NATO from Manas, destroyed the hired army of the Daishaks and occupied Syria. Now we are preparing for the disposal of an independent state; Donbass is already ours rather. We still have an atomic icebreaker fleet, one that nobody even dreams of, is critically dependent on Avisma's Boeing for titanium frames, Atlas and Antares fly to the NK-33 and RD-180, and astronauts pay us for the hitchhiking. Tuikunavts, whom you consider equal, even spacesuits are bought from us. We have a powerful nuclear industry, we are building a bunch of nuclear power plants for export, we are making fuel elements for more than a hundred reactors in 15 countries, etc. And try to refute it. And for God's sake, Holland, by the way, doesn’t produce so much, there is an exchange on which flowers are sold from Colombia and Africa, again we need to deal with numbers. I can’t convince you (I suspect a citizen of Ukraine), because even Obama was mistaken, he was also calculated there the GDP and the Dutch factor, he said that he broke our economy wassat but broke himself. So wait, hope, but don't wait drinks
                      1. Viktor.12.71
                        Viktor.12.71 6 January 2018 21: 01 New
                        +1
                        Quote: hrych
                        And you took into account the export of our aircraft, so we produced 600 Su-30s at the end of last year.

                        So many fighters were released from 1992 to 2017. Why do you mislead people?
                        Quote: hrych
                        I repeat, our SNF and TNW are superior to all taken together

                        Actually the fact that Topol, that the Yars are the development of the 80s and adopted by the armed forces from the 2000s. ICBMs Minuteman III has advantages over Topol-M and Yars in firing range and the number of warheads, as well as a larger number of deployed missiles of the same type, exceeding the total capabilities of Russian strategic missile forces. And the only advantage of Poplar with Yars is the power of the combat unit. Moreover, the RT-2PM2 Topol-M missile was put into service in 1997, the Yars RS-24 in 2009-2010, and the Minutmen-3 product launched four and a half decades ago. I am silent about the fact that American ICBMs are much easier. And who are the backward ones?
                        PS. Americans buy our RD-180 because they are cheaper, they also fly on their own. Compare the single-chamber RS-68 and Merlin 1D against the RD-180, you will discover the secret that the RS-68 is THREE times more expensive than the RD-180, and the Mask with Merlin 1D is FIVE times more expensive. It is the same with titanium, there are a lot of them in the USA and expensive, in Russia there are many and cheap. This is called the difference between the ruble and the dollar.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                    5. hrych
                      hrych 6 January 2018 21: 28 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Viktor.12.71
                      So many fighters were released from 1992 to 2017. Why do you mislead people?

                      Do you know how to read? Where it says that for a year. It is said at the end of last year. laughing Not in a year. That's what mov does to people am
                      Quote: hrych
                      600 Su-30s were fired at the end of last year.

                      And this is taking into account the time of EBN, when nothing was released.
                      Quote: Viktor.12.71
                      In fact, that Topol, that Yars is the development of 80 years of the Russian Strategic Missile Forces. And the only advantage of Topol with Yars is the power of the combat unit. I am silent about the fact that American ICBMs are much easier. And who are the backward ones?
                      PS. Americans buy our RD-180 because they are cheaper

                      And Mendeleev invented the table in the 19th century, and Tsialkovsky calculated everything before the revolution, so what? There is a continuity of generations and technologies. Or Americans give birth from scratch laughing To begin with, they failed the Midjitman mobile, and Yars is still mobile, probably you understand the difference that there is a mobile and why it is needed. They failed in the heavyweight in the form of MX and didn’t really accept it, they were taken out of service, and our Satan-Voivode is on guard of the Motherland and is waiting for Sarmat to be replaced for throwing tests are carried out. Plus Yars is mobile and with multiple BBs, koi and maneuvers gathered, as in the Mace. Do not forget about Sineva and Liner, they have not disappeared, and on Liner there is also a new combat unit. Price does not mean quality. The RD-180 is proven, and their Merlins are still taking their first steps, but a flag in their hands, wait for their first manned flight, then rejoice. Titanium is not much and expensive, and our technology is more advanced, if in the subject, then for Blackbird they bought our titanium through the dummies laughing One thing surprises me, why are you so proud of the Chinese and Americans wassat Like Mr. C. come, put things in order. laughing Well, everyone convinced us, we are inferior in everything, our economy is weak, what's next? Calm down? Why is our Caucasus, our Crimea, our Tartus? Do you hope that the Americans will intercept our BBs and return Crimea to you with the Donbass? Will the Chinese reach the Urals and return Crimea and Donbass to you too? Do you want something? What do you want to convince me of? So that I understand that we are powerless in front of the Chinese and the West, so I went to reel the hated regime and the Crimea and Donbass returned to you? Probably will not work laughing
                      1. Viktor.12.71
                        Viktor.12.71 6 January 2018 21: 38 New
                        +1
                        You have only emotions. If you write, there is nothing to say, it’s better to keep silent and pass for smart. In total, the Su-30 was released 600 units in total from 1992 to 2017, I wrote everything right. And you mislead people! Read the first pages of the treatise The Art of War. Maybe then you will understand a lot that the enemy cannot be underestimated, but consider yourself the most powerful.
                    6. hrych
                      hrych 6 January 2018 21: 51 New
                      +1
                      If you were following the news, you would know that the Chinese were going to purchase the rd-180, so calm down, a joint company for delivery to the American market, the patent is from the manufacturer. All our carriers have their own modifications of the engines that were developed for a particular carrier, we can still afford it, and the Angara will fly to RD-191, which is from RD-170 (because 180 is its modification), so again by. Once again I say that I had in mind the total issued Su-30, according to the rules of the Russian language. I repeat the question: "What do you want to prove to me?" What do you want from me? Recognize the nullity of the Russian Federation or what? By the way, I’m breathing smoothly. laughing I can’t recognize the insignificance of the largest state, I cannot recognize the nuclear and space power as insignificant. Everyone convinced, I admit that the PRC and the USA are more advanced and richer, what next? Then what? You explain to me wink
                      1. Viktor.12.71
                        Viktor.12.71 6 January 2018 22: 02 New
                        0
                        Quote: hrych
                        Recognize the nullity of the Russian Federation

                        Well, immediately humiliate. I want to open your eyes. It is dangerous to consider yourself strong, so you can quickly lose the battle. After all, you yourself see that the Chinese have taken a huge economic step in 20 !! years, and we are marking time! The information about RD-180 and its patents turned out to be incorrect, all the patents belong to NPO Energomash, the only thing that was American was money.
                        PS. The country needs reforms like in China, not Medvedev and Chubais.
                    7. hrych
                      hrych 6 January 2018 22: 24 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Viktor.12.71
                      It is dangerous to consider yourself strong

                      It is dangerous to consider yourself weak
                      1. Viktor.12.71
                        Viktor.12.71 6 January 2018 22: 30 New
                        +1
                        Quote: hrych
                        It is dangerous to consider yourself weak

                        This is also true. Thank you for the discussion and do not hold a grudge against me.
                    8. hrych
                      hrych 6 January 2018 22: 49 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Viktor.12.71
                      don't hold a grudge against me

                      So there’s nothing at all smile And thank you. Merry Christmas! drinks
                      1. Viktor.12.71
                        Viktor.12.71 6 January 2018 22: 52 New
                        +1
                        Atheist, but I will congratulate you on the holiday drinks
        2. MOSKVITYANIN
          MOSKVITYANIN 6 January 2018 01: 16 New
          0

          4
          NEXUS Yesterday, 15: 24 ↑
          Quote: hrych
          But we finish the fourth Borey and the second Ash-tree

          Just like Sukhov-Borei say? And why not cover them? One and a half Ash? So for a moment the mattresses already have 13 multipurpose Virgins and Elks, not an example to the number of our multipurpose.

          If you notice, the US military budget is equal to 10 the military budgets of countries going beyond the US ...
          With people like you, you can stay without pants even without seeing the Naval concept in your eyes, in which the application, including aircraft carriers and a specific number of SSBNs / PLA ...
    3. Svarog
      Svarog 5 January 2018 15: 36 New
      19
      In general, I think that it makes no sense to look and equal the USA and China in today's conditions. And we will not even catch up or even approach these countries until we have an ideology. The USA and China have it, but ours? In my opinion, our ideology, or rather the ideology of the elite, is stupidly enrichment and that’s all. I am not against the rich, in the USA the idea is essentially the same, but the millionaires and Arders of the United States work for the good of the United States, as do the Chinese. And all of us are exported abroad, stupidly robbing and stripping people. How to build aircraft carriers without ideas and money? Another year, two such lives, and there will be nothing to feed the army. It is necessary to return to the ideas of socialism. This is the fairest form of state organization. And again we will be the very first and best in everything.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 5 January 2018 15: 38 New
        +4
        Quote: Svarog
        In general, I think that it makes no sense to look and equal the USA and China in today's conditions.

        I don’t say to catch up with them ... I’m talking about the NAVY BALANCE, in which these same fleets, with any opposition, were able to complete the task. And today, there is no speech about the balance at all, from the word at all.
        1. San Sanych
          San Sanych 6 January 2018 15: 41 New
          0
          Quote: NEXUS
          Quote: Svarog
          In general, I think that it makes no sense to look and equal the USA and China in today's conditions.

          I don’t say to catch up with them ... I’m talking about the NAVY BALANCE, in which these same fleets, with any opposition, were able to complete the task. And today, there is no speech about the balance at all, from the word at all.

          but more specifically it is possible? how many do you think Russia currently needs to have aircraft carriers, cruisers, destroyers, corvettes, etc.?
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 6 January 2018 19: 36 New
            +2
            Quote: San Sanych
            but more specifically it is possible? how many do you think Russia currently needs to have aircraft carriers, cruisers, destroyers, corvettes, etc.?

            Currently, aircraft carriers do not need us ... why? How to cover them? Sarychami, which is already written off, or the Atlanteans, who are already under 40 years old? Are new supply vessels being built in sufficient quantities for the AUG?
            Now about the future of fleets ... priority SF and Pacific Fleet. These fleets need at least 10-15 corvettes and as many frigates for each. Destroyers or the same frigates with an increased displacement of Project 22350M need ten for each of these fleets. Cruisers, and in this case, destroyers of the Leader project, 2 hulls per fleet. At the same time, support vessels, tankers, etc., need new ones. And when all this is built, it will be possible to attend to the construction of aircraft carriers, as well as two for the Northern Fleet and for the Pacific Fleet.
            Further, the Baltic Fleet, the Black Sea Fleet and the Mediterranean squadron (and I think it should be considered as a separate compound) ... cruisers and aircraft carriers are redundant for them, but 3-5 frigates of project 22350M would not be in the way. Also, 5 frigates of the project 22350 for each, and the same number of corvettes. RTKs of the Karakurt type will not be in the way for all fleets, but their number may be ten per fleet.
            There is still an underwater component ... but here we have a clear quantitative bias towards the RKPSN in relation to multi-purpose workers. Well, the Varshavyanka can’t be upgraded to a bluish spot either. A new submarine with VNEU is needed.
      2. hrych
        hrych 5 January 2018 15: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: Svarog
        And we can’t catch up or even come close to these countries

        Twenty-five again, according to submarines, taking into account diesel engines, which the USA does not have such parity, China did not lie nearby. On strike weapons in the form of anti-ship missiles, no one is near us. So far, the Chinese have commissioned one aircraft carrier cruiser, well, we have one and India has done it, and so ... The USA AUGs do not intersect with our interests anywhere, they are operating for colonial wars and in bottlenecks of maritime trade routes, and what's next.
        1. Shahno
          Shahno 5 January 2018 16: 10 New
          0
          Just. We can communicate with you for a long time. And who told you that the enemy will go out in the open, with his capabilities.
          1. hrych
            hrych 5 January 2018 16: 34 New
            0
            Quote: Shahno
            And who told you that the enemy will go out in the open, with his capabilities.

            Hybrid technologies went to dust, the Arab spring, the Iranian Maidan, etc. failed. Good luck in Georgia and Ukraine, leveled out by the loss of key territories. On the contrary, now the Russian Federation is accused of using hybrid technologies, and very successful ones, since Prezik was determined. The possibilities are exaggerated, nothing can be done with Korea, there are not enough funds, but here something more.
            1. Shahno
              Shahno 5 January 2018 16: 48 New
              0
              So you know, technology is evolving. And in Iran, it seems like a new scheme. I think they have a problem, and not a defeat of the states ... From the North. Korea, nothing will be agreed with South, the Trojan horse will ...
              1. hrych
                hrych 5 January 2018 17: 14 New
                0
                I don’t know, for me the West has lost all its capabilities, in the military sphere it has begun to stupid in politics too. There are no breakthrough technologies, they knead the old and are in prostration. The same China is pulling up, we ourselves have grown up, okay, we, after the death of the USSR, had to balance on the brink, and in the West the crisis of the genre, well, signs of collapse began (scandals of Trump, Weinstein, Brexet, Catalonia, the decay of Turkey, etc.)
                1. Shahno
                  Shahno 5 January 2018 17: 18 New
                  +2
                  In the West, the crisis of ideology, it is not for nothing that they rushed to us with their technologies. They smell it. But you have to work and work here.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 5 January 2018 17: 29 New
                    0
                    As far as I understand, the West is to prolong the agony and is starting to stagger the Asia-Pacific region, the Russian Federation (Donbass) and BV. Lost in Syria, let's get you in with Jerusalem. And so he was like yours laughing No, we must stir up the whole public, unfreeze extremists, etc.
    4. MOSKVITYANIN
      MOSKVITYANIN 6 January 2018 01: 02 New
      0
      Quote: NEXUS
      But we are finishing everything Nakhimov ... about the new destroyers and cruisers with aircraft carriers are generally silent. But we vote about strengthening the coastal zone with three throats, and more than frigates, we do not want to build ships in the new program.

      Apparently you do not read the periodicals, I’m ashamed of the general .... The concept of the development of the Navy suggested three stages of development, now the development of the Navy of China is at the second stage of its development, only the third involves the exit of the Navy of China in the oceans ....
      But if you throw the dough, then the Russian Federation will overtake the PRC, gee ... laughing
      You don’t have to think too much, except ++++ nothing will appear for you, but the ocean fleet of the Russian Federation will not appear faster from this ... fellow
    5. San Sanych
      San Sanych 6 January 2018 15: 35 New
      0
      The icebreaking fleet is, first of all, the Northern Sea Route, and this should not be forgotten.
    6. KaPToC
      KaPToC 6 January 2018 19: 31 New
      0
      Quote: NEXUS
      Our fleet will be smuggled together with the largest icebreaking fleet ... and why? And because these are the grandmas who appeared on the horizon when hydrocarbons were dug up on the Lomonosov shelf ... that’s the whole story.

      And this is the right approach, the fleet is built for specific tasks, not "anyhow bulo"
  2. Strips
    Strips 5 January 2018 14: 34 New
    +1
    Means allow - can experiment ..
  3. spirit
    spirit 5 January 2018 14: 35 New
    +1
    And many still think that in Shanghai they produce one consumer goods)
  4. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 5 January 2018 14: 36 New
    +6
    Great state. 3 thousands of years of continuous history.
    1. hrych
      hrych 5 January 2018 14: 45 New
      +6
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      Great state. 3 thousands of years of continuous history.

      So to speak, veterinarians of the Far East laughing Any person has ancestors, he did not fall from the moon and did not collapse from the oak. And from the ancestor, everyone has a continuous history. If about the Han, then this is continuous slavery until the 20th century because PuI was Manchurian laughing
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 5 January 2018 14: 45 New
      +5
      Quote: Aaron Zawi
      Great state. 3 thousands of years of continuous history.

      And we think you just went out for a walk? I'm talking about the story ...
      1. Strips
        Strips 5 January 2018 15: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: NEXUS
        And we think you just went out for a walk? I'm talking about the story ...


        Yes, something like that. Compared to ancient peoples.
        1. hrych
          hrych 5 January 2018 15: 28 New
          +5
          Quote: Tiras
          Yes, something like that. Compared to ancient peoples.

          That you went for a walk wassat There are no ancient and young peoples, everything descended from the first ancestor, if judging by mutations and haplogroups, then there are no those ancient Jews, there are no ancient Han people, etc. All crosses, especially some mother’s metrics in general, and if they lived under the yoke of the invaders, genetically rather belong to the invaders, for the invaders of very female slaves love laughing Russians with their R1a have nothing to be ashamed of, because in Eurasia, including the current Russian Federation, there is a hotbed of the origin of this mutation and no one has been able to dilute it, and the reliable history of the last millennium, which cannot be disputed, says that there is no more militant and victorious ethnic group on Earth, including 20th century, proved to everyone more than once. Including the liberation of the Han people themselves from the Japanese. Therefore, go and count your metrics and pedigrees there, as in a cynological exhibition (pedigree is also sold there for every taste, at least from Sharik, at least from Rex), and we prove it by deeds, when in the 21st century everyone was very successful. laughing
          1. Strips
            Strips 5 January 2018 15: 44 New
            +1
            You wrote a lot, but zero meaning laughing

            "There are no ancient and young peoples" .. After this nonsense it was possible not to read further hi .

            The Russian people are young and there is nothing wrong with this, as well as the fact that the Russian people appeared from the Eastern Slavs.
            Do not be shy about the youth of the Russian people. Relax
            1. Andrey Yuryevich
              Andrey Yuryevich 5 January 2018 16: 15 New
              +2
              Quote: Tiras
              The Russian people are young and there is nothing wrong with this, as well as the fact that the Russian people appeared from the Eastern Slavs.

              let's talk about the Americans ... now, the "ancient" so the "ancient" .... how much are they? 240 years old? how to the Bolshoi Theater? wassat tongue
              1. Strips
                Strips 5 January 2018 16: 34 New
                +1
                And what to speak for them? They do not seem to claim that they are an ancient people winked
                They probably relate to the concept of people not regarding genetics, but regarding their language, culture, history and other things.

                In this regard, as a people, Americans are quite modern people. winked

                Moreover, they have it all and in the process goes as there are a lot of things mixed up.
              2. hrych
                hrych 5 January 2018 16: 54 New
                0
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                let's talk for Americans

                This is the term in the media, ask them who they are, they will say that African-Americans, Irish, Italians, Jews and Cherokee wassat moreover, they honor and preserve their culture, where it’s better than where they came from. The USSR was a similar experiment where they made homo-sovieticus, only from nowhere did they begin to cut each other on a national basis.
            2. hrych
              hrych 5 January 2018 16: 49 New
              0
              Quote: Tiras
              The Russian people are young and there is nothing wrong with this, as well as the fact that the Russian people appeared from the Eastern Slavs.

              We have a different opinion, the Eastern, Western and Southern Slavs descended from the Russians. On our side are the achievements of archeology, anthropology and genetics. Even Herodotus is for us and Strabo, who described roxolan. The ethnonym is ancient Indian ruksą- (“shining, brilliant”), Iranian roxs-alan, translated as “light Alans”, where roxs from ancient Iranian rauxšna are “light”, and alan from aryana is “Aryan, Aryan”. All questions to linguists and geneticists. Bright Russia, this is a synonym. There is brown hair, the term does not refer to the people, but to color, there are mermaids - light perfumes, there is a hare, etc.
          2. Dimmih
            Dimmih 5 January 2018 18: 21 New
            +1
            It doesn’t matter DNA, to boast of it, I would say um ... stupid. But the development of the economy and technology is quite acceptable. And the Chinese have something to boast about. I don’t know how the rest of the interlocutors, I have all the appliances China / Korea. Or from their spare parts. Something of the Russian component parts cannot be seen. And what about the fact that I am a carrier of the R1a mutation? What advantage does this give me over the Chinese? Here is another DNA we did not measure .... It was the case, in 1941-45m, both my grandfathers of the representatives of the Aryan race pacified, one with a sword from a horse, the second on a tank. So lovers of DNA measure it as if these arias were resurrected again, not for good, for great turmoil.
            1. hrych
              hrych 5 January 2018 19: 05 New
              0
              Quote: Dimmih
              I don’t know how the rest of the interlocutors, I have all the appliances China / Korea

              I don’t know how the other interlocutors have, but I have all the military equipment from AK to nuclear missile carriers, combat satellites and strategic aircraft carriers, it’s absolutely ours - domestic wassat And the very thing that the Chinese advanced so bought from us or not very successfully copied, including aircraft carriers and their planes, because they do everything according to the Krechet project wassat A saber on the head stupidly explained who is the boss of Hyperborea and who is true wassat
              1. Dimmih
                Dimmih 6 January 2018 15: 42 New
                +1
                And why is our pigeon we are embarrassed to copy their phones or at worst the electric shaver? Purely in response, in Hyperborean? And blowing into the tune that we have all the military equipment of our country, you kind of hint that you neglect household appliances and completely dispense with the military ... Let's say. But it’s interesting, you remove facial hair with household appliances or with a flame from the nozzle of a Mosquito or Granite rocket, in Hyperborean? And do you wash your pants according to the custom of your ancestors — in an ice hole or in a new way — wrapping around the rudders of a nuclear submarine, and not in a washing machine?
                1. hrych
                  hrych 6 January 2018 16: 02 New
                  0
                  Quote: Dimmih
                  And why our dove Are we shy about copying their phones or, at worst, electric shavers?

                  It’s more suitable for you, I like the term hawk more laughing the Chinese themselves copied everything, it’s easier to turn to the source laughing If you are talking about the market of electronics and vehicles, then a lot is going to the factories of Japanese and German corporations located in the Russian Federation. But the fact that you have a routine on your mind and this is a beacon for you in life is very bad. We need to focus on the great, so we conquered space, the ocean and the atom. Moreover, on the crest of progress, we, at least, are not inferior to the West, but where we surpass many. As for the Chinese, well, razors started mass production wassat but the engines to the fighters didn’t even copy the mind, I had to buy from us. You see, your problems with vegetation are not interesting to me, here is a site about military equipment, etc., to your home economics site laughing and if you rush here to parch the ruling regime, then to your page Sabchak wassat If you want to discuss, then closer to TTX, there is some kind of military device. Here, according to the draft of Krecheta, the Chinese are sculpting the cruiser, and it carries you into rusty underpants wassat
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 5 January 2018 15: 40 New
          +5
          Quote: Tiras
          Yes, something like that. Compared to ancient peoples.

          Seriously? wassat And to say how ancient the Slavic ethnos is weak? Or say, if you look even deeper into history ... or stupidly blurted out and did not understand what?
          1. Strips
            Strips 5 January 2018 15: 55 New
            +1
            Quote: NEXUS
            Seriously? And to say how ancient the Slavic ethnos is weak? Or say, if you look even deeper into history ... or stupidly blurted out and did not understand what?



            Slavic ethnos is not a Russian people.
            It's about nations, not about the origin of the Slavs from which different nations appeared at different times.

            So you stupidly blurted out. The Chinese as a people (Han) are an ancient people, unlike, for example, Russians. And there is nothing bad or good about it. Just like that
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 5 January 2018 16: 08 New
              +7
              Quote: Tiras
              So you stupidly blurted out. The Chinese as a people (Han) are an ancient people, unlike, for example, Russians. And there is nothing bad or good about it. Just like that

              As you scratched here, "blurted out stupidly", you first take a look at yourself, dear ... Regarding the ancient Russians, the facts are in the studio ... otherwise you blurt out blurt out with a smart look, and then even the grass does not grow. When did the Russians appear as a people? All in attention ...
              1. Strips
                Strips 5 January 2018 16: 23 New
                +1
                The tribal unions of the Eastern Slavs, which, according to most scholars, managed to merge into a single nation, made up the main population of the medieval Old Russian state. As a result of the subsequent political stratification of the Eastern Slavs, By the XNUMXth century, three peoples had formed (in decreasing order of numbers): Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 5 January 2018 16: 34 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Tiras
                  By the XNUMXth century, three peoples had formed (in decreasing order of numbers): Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian.

                  Dear, there is no need to powder people’s brains ... so the eastern, western, southern Slavs did not speak the old Russian language? They either mumbled like monkeys or were dumb. And they didn’t have any written language for you. I’m talking about Ivan, you’re telling me about Thomas ... I’ll ask a different question, if it doesn’t reach ... When did the Old Slavic language, or Proto-Slavic, appear?
                  1. Strips
                    Strips 5 January 2018 16: 55 New
                    +1
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    I tell you about Ivan, you tell me about Thomas ... I’ll ask a different question, if it doesn’t reach.


                    This is your problem.
                    I'm talking about the Russian people, and you tell me about the ancient Slavic language.
                    About the Russians, and you tell me about the Slavs lol

                    Old Russian language (Also Old Eastern Slavic language) - the language of the Eastern Slavs in the period from about VII — VIII to XIV — XV centuries, which was a common ancestor of the Belarusian, Russian and Ukrainian languages.


                    You are trying to prove to me the rather ancient origin of the Slavs from whom the Russian people formed much later, like many other peoples, and we are discussing ancient peoples that were already there when the Russian people did not exist in the project either.

                    The fact that the Russian people appeared from the Slavs, who have a fairly ancient history, do not make the Russian people ancient.
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 5 January 2018 17: 21 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Tiras
                      I'm talking about the Russian people, and you tell me about the ancient Slavic language.

                      I tell you, if you did not understand the root of all Slavic languages, that is, Old Russian and even more ancient ... and I look, you separate the language and the people ... and on this earth they spoke Hebrew or English in those days? Why are you like a louse on a scallop then try to jump off a topic?
                      I asked you a question - How many centuries did the ancient Slavic language spoken by all Slavs in those days?
                      And by the way ... also explain how it so happened that the writing of the Etruscans (do you know such a "young" civilization?) Is very calmly read even by a modern Russian person ... do not know why this is?
                    2. Mih1974
                      Mih1974 6 January 2018 02: 59 New
                      +2
                      Either I'm stupid or you: that is, the Han people didn’t change over several thousand years, they didn’t fall into four kingdoms, they didn’t unite with the sword under the uniform Tsyn banner, then the Mongols didn’t pull them on and didn’t “use” them in tail and mane?
                      So there were some "ancient Slavs" from whom the Russians were formed while the "ancient Slavs" themselves "disappeared" somewhere? recourse belay
                      They write to you in black in Russian - until the "enlightener" his mother Peter the first brought a new calendar "December 19, 7208 (“from the creation of the world”) Peter I signed a decree on calendar reform. "and your coming came into the swing One Thousand and Seven hundredths. belay Five and a half millennia of history - the dog was lowered by the tail ((
                      And there is no need to dispute "measure the DNA", you don’t measure the skulls with a compass, but if you know that soon the medicine will be programmed under DNA, and there will already be DNA treatment !! And by the way, doctors even in America are quite officially recording themselves - the patient is BLACK, that is, NIGER tongue . And so it turned out that there was a difference, they are ill with specific diseases, or they don’t suffer from any other races tongue
                      So the gallogroup of Russians (ancient Slavs) - call me whatever you want, there are and doesn’t want to go anywhere.
                      I saw an even more "vile study" commissioned by the West - a layered overlay of photos of thousands of people in limited areas (Novgorod, Perm, Stalingrad). And here’s what’s funny - in the West (EU) a stone flower doesn’t "come out, features are blurred to complete ugliness, but in Russia it’s a wonderful miracle" .. a certain look is clearly formed ... "(c) Moreover, if you show" total "images, then you decide that this is a strange blur of the photo, but most likely you will guess what area they are from. lol .
                      So even the “face” in our Russia is safe, not like in dedicated Europe. laughing
            2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Odysseus
      Odysseus 5 January 2018 14: 46 New
      11
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      Great state. 3 thousands of years of continuous history.

      It's not about the story. The point is socialism and the Communist Party at the head of the country. Even 100 years ago in this "great state" a bunch of foreign powers divided the spheres of influence.
      This is especially for you, dear Aron. I suppose you should like it. smile
      1. Xnumx vis
        Xnumx vis 5 January 2018 14: 56 New
        +3
        So we will vote for Grudinin? The reincarnation of Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev! The non-partisan nominated by the Communists of the Russian Federation ... That there are no real Communists in Russia? There were sternum .....
        1. DEDPIHTO
          DEDPIHTO 5 January 2018 15: 22 New
          0
          Quote: 30 vis
          So we will vote for Grudinin? The reincarnation of Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev! The non-partisan nominated by the Communists of the Russian Federation ... That there are no real Communists in Russia? There were sternum .....

          Wrong .. laughing .. from 90s reincarnation crown in Russia .. And Grudinin while does not join the Communist Party, it must first be cleaned up ..
      2. Strips
        Strips 5 January 2018 15: 28 New
        0
        Quote: Odyssey
        The point is socialism and the Communist Party at the head of the country.


        There has long been capitalism under the guise of communism and socialism.
        1. Odysseus
          Odysseus 5 January 2018 21: 40 New
          0
          Quote: Tiras
          There has long been capitalism under the guise of communism and socialism.

          Answered below Mentatu.
  5. svp67
    svp67 5 January 2018 14: 37 New
    +4
    Media: China has begun construction of a third aircraft carrier
    Their pace and opportunity can only be envied ....
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 5 January 2018 14: 56 New
      0
      Hurry, you make people laugh. Accepting an aircraft carrier in a year is cool. So to say they will take on ....... It is not known how many sores he will get out and what he will be like.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 5 January 2018 15: 14 New
        +6
        Well, 001A is actually the best Gyrfalcon. There they expanded the hangar, put the most advanced boilers with full automation of the water treatment process (they actually eradicated the main sore on the root), installed new radars, weapons and national-developed systems.

        There should not be any special jambs. Judging by the forcing and the start of dismantling the scaffolding / wagons, 1,5-2 will run for another month.


        The 002 type is different in design - the first is completely smooth-deck. But unified with 001A in energy and a number of systems. The catapults have been practiced for 3 already. The last six months at their center, not only OKBshny boards with crutches have flown around, but also the sides of the PLA Navy - that is, combatant ones on the stand with a catapult.
        1. Mih1974
          Mih1974 6 January 2018 03: 23 New
          +1
          Yes, the Chinese flag in their hands and forth. good We have their own Indian Sea (okiyan) to one place, let them measure themselves with the Merikas (well, as they see fit). lol
          Let’s take it seriously, well, thieves and even worse — Pests rule Russia until they are publicly scattered on Red Square — there will be no economic opportunities for an “equal fleet”. We can’t cover our missile-carriers on the campaign - let them poke along our coast (enough of the coast) in our “creek”. Russia does not need Avik because it cannot afford the task - Syria is an excellent indicator of this. He didn’t even tear the cable and didn’t lose a couple of planes; he fought for a penny, but he ran into resources for a ruble. negative Whereas the “ground workers” flew such an impression in three shifts good and only one Su-24 took refuge on their takeoff, peace be upon wars crying soldier .
          As long as there is strategic aviation that can cut circles right around the base of Engelsk base to the order - no one will bomb us, and that’s enough for us so far. Now, if patriots and experts come to the “helm of the ship of Russia” and lead this “ship” into a bright and rich future, then we will “rage with fat” and build aircraft carriers and sound carriers a la “USSR heavy cruiser”. good lol
  6. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 5 January 2018 14: 38 New
    +2
    Well done - do not stand still ...
  7. polpot
    polpot 5 January 2018 14: 45 New
    +3
    The Chinese comrades are going the right way, big greetings to the US Navy
  8. bald
    bald 5 January 2018 15: 00 New
    +1
    At the expense of "newfangled electromagnetic catapults" --- How is that ?! Color honey. it doesn’t magnetize, and if you create a field, and it should be the strongest, the aircraft equipment will wish them a long life. So you also have to sit down. And the service staff can then only become a pope, at best. But not easier, like a slingshot? Not that we still have technology.
    1. Antony
      Antony 5 January 2018 15: 13 New
      +2
      Steam does not cling to the plane either, an actuator is brought to the deck, the same garbage is here. Landing on a regular finisher
      1. bald
        bald 5 January 2018 15: 27 New
        0
        But he will not extinguish the nozzle, and the pressure must be over 300 tons - yes they will fall - the whole development is just raw. In general, the team is large, there are many testers. When a man takes off from a civilian plane, he can withstand about 1.5g — a parachutist with a 10.5g canopy, and there you must throw the plane instantly from a place. I doubt it.
        1. thinker
          thinker 5 January 2018 17: 41 New
          +1
          And Trump has doubts yes
          Trump ordered the fleet to return to the "damn pair" on aircraft carrier catapults
          At the beginning of 2017, the amount of funds invested in the development and production of electromagnetic catapults for new aircraft carriers already exceeded $ 2,3 billion. Additionally, about 800 million more will be spent on this equipment for the first three new aircraft carriers of the Gerald Ford type.

          https://lenta.ru/news/2017/05/12/emals/
          1. bald
            bald 5 January 2018 18: 11 New
            +1
            laughing --- "" It sounds to me somehow not very - “digital.” What is it? It's very difficult, you have to be Albert Einstein to figure it out. And they want more aircraft carriers. I say: what system do you need? - “Sir, we want digital!” I say no, it won’t be digital for you. You’ll use the damn pairs. ”--- Maybe the Chinese will do --- they’re much smarter !!!
            1. Mih1974
              Mih1974 6 January 2018 03: 33 New
              +2
              not the Chinese will not work, well, what are you right to God lol Have you not seen enough that ALL that China gives out for their "development" is either a "seamless" or terrible chimera from various stolen projects - J-20. negative
            2. Mih1974
              Mih1974 6 January 2018 03: 45 New
              +2
              In general, the whole story with "e-catapults" resembles the history of SDI - just lie from three boxes and see how the enemy bucks mountains of dough. Well, at the same time, you’ll cut your budget a little in your pocket. repeat
              This reminded me of a fantastic story that was written explicitly from the story about the SDI and the USSR, well, in general, the earth ambassador and the alien engineers argued more abruptly and, as they say, “having eaten the lot” arranged a competition: the best engineers were given a ready-made model of technology that should be repeated. lol Well, five earthlings were given the first task - they even improved it, the second - they repeated it, the third last - they give an anti-gravity module. belay No. Earthlings are such and such, the physicist violates our laws, but flies like that. In general, for three weeks - they did, the receiving alien changes his face and confesses - it was bullshit, we ourselves were a month to kill us, we’ve forgotten that emotion (the earthlings are flowing out of awareness of what has been achieved) . In general, the interplanetary boil - aliens flatly refuse to let go of ours until they teach them how this crap flies. In general, the earthly ambassador comes and confesses "we tell them they slipped an analogue, that is, supposedly a perpetual motion machine," while they break their two boshes tongue and earthly engineers already - okay, will there be a perpetual motion machine for you, show me the blueprints?
              Why am I doing this, because the SDI was pure bullshit, but in the USSR (according to rumors), a working combat orbital laser was started to go awry, and its mass-size mock-up was put into orbit “Energy took to its flight. good Campaign and Merikasy with "e-catapults" again want to see who does "what doesn’t happen" so that later they could either buy or steal. Here are just the Chinese are still those "inventors" negative they are exactly two metal balls project .. mm will lose and break.
  9. Herculesic
    Herculesic 5 January 2018 15: 13 New
    +4
    "Newfangled electro-manic catapults" is that an advertisement from a fashion magazine? fool I won’t be surprised if, after about 10 years, we will order an aircraft carrier from the Chinese, because of the impossibility of building this type of ship due to the country's lack of personnel for the construction of such ships! Also, the Chinese will do destroyers for us, albeit on our projects! And then documentation will simply be bought from us. ...
  10. Vard
    Vard 5 January 2018 15: 21 New
    +1
    A reasonable question ... why China needs aircraft carriers ... It is quite possible that the direction of expansion in his future is Vietnam, Laos, Burma, Malaysia ... well, all that is nearby ... They will be very useful there ...
  11. Gardamir
    Gardamir 5 January 2018 15: 37 New
    +1
    In the process, China decided to conquer America.
  12. FLOOD
    FLOOD 5 January 2018 15: 39 New
    +1
    Soon, China will have aircraft carriers like tanks in Russia. Before 2030, China has half an Asia and the whole Far East on the target ... The trend is not a joke, but the end justifies all means.
  13. afrikanez
    afrikanez 5 January 2018 15: 39 New
    0
    Such an impression. that no one steals in China .... but only in Russia. recourse
    1. Antares
      Antares 6 January 2018 12: 56 New
      0
      Quote: afrikanez
      China, no one steals .... but only in Russia.

      Judging by the executions in China, a lot
      Judging by the landings in the Russian Federation, a little.
      Conclusion - in China they steal more.
  14. FLOOD
    FLOOD 5 January 2018 15: 46 New
    +1
    Quote: donavi49
    China restored (or rather completely rebuilt) the Bohai shipyard and put it into operation. There 7 (SEVEN!) Parallel branches for the construction of any type of nuclear submarines.

    At the moment, plans for the construction of eight nuclear-powered submarines, four Ashenes and four Boreans, have been approved for the period until 2020. On March 19, the fifth Ash-tree, which will be called Arkhangelsk, will be laid on Sevmash. If you compare, then the Chinese are either kidding, or specifically step on their heels ...
  15. FLOOD
    FLOOD 5 January 2018 15: 52 New
    +1
    Quote: NEXUS
    But we are finishing everything Nakhimov ... about the new destroyers and cruisers with aircraft carriers are generally silent. But we vote about strengthening the coastal zone with three throats, and more than frigates, we do not want to build ships in the new program. Our fleet will be smuggled together with the largest icebreaking fleet ... and why? And because these are the grandmas who appeared on the horizon when hydrocarbons were dug up on the Lomonosov shelf ... that’s the whole story.

    It has already been on modernization since the 99th, the real movement began in 2013. Dismantling, primer, new equipment, testing .... Promised by 2021 ..
  16. FLOOD
    FLOOD 5 January 2018 16: 00 New
    +1
    Quote: Svarog
    In general, I think that it makes no sense to look and equal the USA and China in today's conditions. And we will not even catch up or even approach these countries until we have an ideology. The USA and China have it, but ours? In my opinion, our ideology, or rather the ideology of the elite, is stupidly enrichment and that’s all. I do not mind the rich ....
    but against the poor (that is, poverty) ..
  17. Wolka
    Wolka 5 January 2018 16: 19 New
    +1
    the Chinese are all persistently establishing communications with Africa, soon in the Pacific and Indian oceans it will be crowded, the Yankees will have to switch to coastal swimming
  18. vlad007
    vlad007 5 January 2018 16: 25 New
    0
    On the English aircraft carrier "Qeen Elizabeth" they made a TEMPORAL springboard, but left a place for the equipment of an electromagnetic catapult, which could be installed during the first modernization or earlier.
  19. Nemesis
    Nemesis 5 January 2018 18: 21 New
    +2
    If in Russia they began to shoot embezzlers, terrorists and their accomplices, with confiscation of property, then it would be enough not only for aircraft carriers ...
  20. Dimmih
    Dimmih 5 January 2018 18: 26 New
    0
    Quote: NEXUS
    Quote: Tiras
    By the XNUMXth century, three peoples had formed (in decreasing order of numbers): Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian.

    Dear, there is no need to powder people’s brains ... so the eastern, western, southern Slavs did not speak the old Russian language? They either mumbled like monkeys or were dumb. And they didn’t have any written language for you. I’m talking about Ivan, you’re telling me about Thomas ... I’ll ask a different question, if it doesn’t reach ... When did the Old Slavic language, or Proto-Slavic, appear?

    In Slavic languages ​​they were balalaic, dear !!!! But Russian, Serbian and other languages ​​developed from Slavic later! And if you open the Word about Igor’s regiment in the language in which it is written, then you will understand far from all of your remarkable mental abilities and excellent command of the Russian language. It's so simple, well, find the Slavic text, read the same chronicle and see with your eyes that the language is not quite Russian, but very old Slavonic.
  21. Mentat
    Mentat 5 January 2018 18: 35 New
    +1
    Quote: Odyssey
    It's not about the story. The point is socialism and the Communist Party at the head of the country.

    Neither communism nor socialism exists in China. You should at least glance at the dictionary, which means the term "socialism". IMHO, what is happening in China can be described as state capitalism with elements of totalitarianism, supported by convenient slogans that fit well with some local beliefs and culture.
    It is necessary to maintain good neighborly relations with surrounding countries, especially if there are significant historical prerequisites for this and this benefits both peoples.
    However, broadcasting nonsense on the air and demonstrating ridiculous naivety is not necessary. What you saw in the USSR is not in China.
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 5 January 2018 21: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: Mentat
      However, broadcasting nonsense on the air and demonstrating ridiculous naivety is not necessary. What you saw in the USSR is not in China.

      You, it seems, were not noticed in Russophobia, so I will be polite, but I can’t help but notice that, forgive me for the truth, your ideas about life remained at the level of the “Soviet intellectual” of the 80s who, like children, were divorced in perestroika. I’ll quickly go through your main points highlighting the most important. Again, do not be offended, I do not want to offend you personally.
      Quote: Mentat
      Not communism

      Communism did not exist anywhere. You confuse the communist party with communism.
      Quote: Mentat
      no socialism in China exists

      What kind of "socialism"? Socialism according to Marx, in general, does not exist (more precisely, it exists but it is either utopian or reactionary), socialism from the time of the NEP, the time of Stalin, Yugoslav socialism, Juche socialism, socialism according to Gorbachev, according to Pol Pot?
      It's all different socialisms Moreover, they are hostile to each other and their countries of confession can enter into hostilities with each other. Moreover, almost each of the representatives of these “socialisms” believes that only his socialism is “right”, and all the rest is either capitalism. feudalism with an Asian mode of production.
      In reality, there is no "right socialism."
      Quote: Mentat
      You should at least glance at the dictionary, which means the term "socialism".

      Again, in which dictionary? Judging by your rhetoric, you propose to look into the dictionary of the times of Brezhnev and believe that “correct socialism” is described there. This is an illusion, and already in the dictionaries of the times of Gorbachev you could read that socialism of the times of Brezhnev is “barracks pseudo-socialism.” And, for example , For Mao, Brezhnev socialism was opportunism and bourgeois degeneration. Well, etc.
      Quote: Mentat
      IMHO, what is happening in China can be described as state capitalism with elements of totalitarianism, supported by convenient slogans

      1) Capitalism is a socio-economic formation according to Marx, totalitarianism is a characteristic of political power according to post-war bourgeois liberal ideologists.
      "Capitalism with elements of totalitarianism" is dry water, an oxymoron. You confuse boots with cakes.
      2) I'm not saying that you use the dictionary of bourgeois ideologists invented for the masses after the Second World War. There is no "totalitarianism" at all, there is no "totalitarian party" and no "totalitarianism". It’s just an ideological weapon invented in the USA (Arend, Aron, etc.) at the beginning of the Cold War, initially with the aim of weakening communist propaganda in Western countries. The main goal of the concept is to level, and then identify communism with the already mythologized and turned into a scarecrow Nazism.
      Quote: Mentat
      What you saw in the USSR is not in China

      From the fact that in the PRC there isn’t what we saw in the USSR (by the way it’s not clear in which USSR, in the RSFSR of the times of “war communism”, in the USSR of the times of Gorbachev, etc.), and it is not clear what it means “in China "that there is no communist party in the PRC, or is it not written in the constitution that the PRC is a socialist country?) it does not follow that there is no socialism in the PRC.
  22. CAT BAIYUN
    CAT BAIYUN 5 January 2018 19: 02 New
    +5
    "Type 002" will use fuel oil and steam

    ..a and fine! In fact, they will not heat boilers with wood.laughing
    But I have such a strange feeling that the Chinese are seriously going to pile on striped dogs ...
  23. andron-30
    andron-30 5 January 2018 20: 03 New
    +1
    Yes, China is getting stronger, Sasha and the Japs will soon be tearing ass, although we are not the enemy, we need to keep our ears sharp.
  24. Piramidon
    Piramidon 5 January 2018 20: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: NEXUS
    But we vote about strengthening the coastal zone with three throats, and more than frigates, we do not want to build ships in the new program.

    No need to speak for everyone on their own behalf. You are the ones who vote the most about how badly everything doesn’t go into why we need to build aircraft carriers — these fraternal, expensive graves. Who are you going to conquer with their help? But the ships of the coastal zone are just designed to ensure that these wunderwaffles infused with pindocs do not come to our shores ..
  25. MOSKVITYANIN
    MOSKVITYANIN 6 January 2018 00: 55 New
    0
    It is impossible to develop a completely new ship in a few years.

    We are another matter. We have been building a minesweeper for 5 years and dream about EM with a nuclear power plant, gee ...
  26. qwerty183
    qwerty183 6 January 2018 04: 21 New
    0
    [quote = MOSKVITYANIN] [quote = NEXUS]
    You don’t have to think too much, except ++++ nothing will appear for you, but the ocean fleet of the Russian Federation will not appear faster from this ... fellow[/ Quote]
    The ocean fleet does not appear in the near future, not for the reasons of banks and other nuances. It’s nowhere to build it stupidly ............. they would see Zvezdochka in Severodvinsk .... Although I’m afraid to tell you how to tell to .....
  27. Mentat
    Mentat 6 January 2018 16: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: Odyssey
    Quote: Mentat
    However, broadcasting nonsense on the air and demonstrating ridiculous naivety is not necessary. What you saw in the USSR is not in China.

    You, it seems, were not noticed in Russophobia, so I will be polite, but I can not help but notice that, forgive me for the truth, your ideas about life remained at the level of the “Soviet intellectual” of the 80s whom, like children, were divorced in perestroika. I will quickly go through your main points

    You write a lot, but not on the case. You are trying to bring verbal fog when everything is very clear: socialism, my dear, is when the state purposefully supports the social benefits for the people: education, medical care, recreation, material support. In China not even pensions. But you pretend that you are not in the know, and China is such a blessed country where there is a Martian, unlike any, but still socialism and, most importantly, the COMMUNIST PARTY! You are talking about the intelligentsia of the 80s, naive deceived fools, and what then are you, praying not even for an idol, but for the image of an idol from the past, even if perverted, foreign, warped and deceitful, consisting of slogans beyond which no essence, no strength, no desire, no rush of people? Does China say its goal is to build a communist society? Who are you lying to and why? Even if he stated, the case does not confirm.
    There is no communist party in China (i.e., people who organize the construction of communism and who are inspired by ideas of such a future), there is a dummy made of papier-mâché, smelling of stale weather and turning inside out because of a mismatch of essence and name.
    Communism did not exist anywhere. You confuse the communist party with communism.

    My dear, you write trivialities, meanwhile you’re wrong twice. First, communism existed in the first Christian communities. Secondly, there is no communism in China even in the form of an idea, an aspiration for such a society, which I had in mind.
    a dictionary of bourgeois ideologists invented for the masses after World War II. There is no "totalitarianism" at all, there is no "totalitarian party" and not any "totalitarianism".

    Totalitarianism blooms remarkably in the United States itself.
    In China, recently launched in a test mode in one of the cities the system of electronic tracking of the smallest actions of citizens, which estimates many thousands of parameters of human behavior. As a result, a Chinese citizen receives a "social confidence index." A high index allows him to receive discounts in stores, to expedite bureaucratic procedures, a negative index imposes restrictions up to prison.
    Well, start singing the ballad that it is “special socialism” with a blissful taste and not even a totalitarian dystopia in reality.
  28. Old26
    Old26 7 January 2018 00: 43 New
    0
    Quote: Viktor.12.71
    Actually the fact that Topol, that the Yars are the development of the 80s and adopted by the armed forces from the 2000s.

    Topolda, the 80s, "Yars" - the beginning of the 2000s

    Quote: Viktor.12.71
    ICBMs Minuteman III has advantages over Topol-M and Yars in firing range and the number of warheads, as well as a larger number of deployed missiles of the same type, exceeding the total capabilities of Russian strategic missile forces.

    In the firing range, the Minuteman 3 really has advantages over the Topol-M and Yars. And this is not surprising, since the thrown weight in the “Minutman-3” is less than that of the Topol-M and “Yars.” In terms of the number of warheads, it surpasses only the “Topol-M”, and even then until the last modernization, when the warhead The Mk-12A was replaced by the MK-21 warhead, and the number of blocks decreased from 3 to 1. The Yars RGCh. and in the best case, the amount of BB quantity on it is comparable to the quantity on the Minuteman before modernization of the warhead.
    The number of missiles of one type really exceeds what we had. In terms of total capabilities, the Minuteman’s “combat potential” never exceeded the capabilities of the Russian Strategic Missile Forces.

    Quote: Viktor.12.71
    And the only advantage of Poplar with Yars is the power of the combat unit.

    Not only the power of the “Yars” is comparable to the power of the BB “minuteman”. And the main difference is that the American is stationary, and the Topol-M and Yars are mobile and stationary

    Quote: Viktor.12.71
    Moreover, the RT-2PM2 Topol-M missile was put into service in 1997, the Yars RS-24 in 2009-2010, and the operation of the Minitmen-3 product started four and a half decades ago.

    In principle, those missiles that are now in service with the United States only by the name of Minuteman 3. This is, in principle, a completely new rocket, in which everything is replaced. starting from the engine and ending with the control system and warheads

    Quote: hrych
    let's start with the fact that they failed the Midgetman mobile, and Yars is still mobile

    They did not fail the Midgetman mobile. it was just an agreement between the USA and the USSR that the Americans were stopping work on their “Dwarf”, while we were working on a similar “Courier” complex. Moreover, unlike ours, he flew from the Midgetman twice. Last time at 7000 km. ours flew a few seconds, while it was consumed incomplete fueling in 1 stage

    Quote: hrych
    They failed in the heavyweight in the form of MX and didn’t really accept it, they were taken out of service, and our Satan-Voivode is on guard of the Motherland and is waiting for Sarmat to be replaced for throwing tests are carried out.

    For starters, their MX was not just not heavyweight, but not even pulled on a heavy rocket. According to the classification, heavy is with a starting weight of 105 tons. MX had a launch of 88 tons. The meaning of the deployment of the 500 MX that they planned at first ceased to exist with the collapse of the Soviet Union. 50 deployed stood in service with a dozen years, but there was no point in them. They decided to unify their ICBMs, leaving only the Minutemen. So what if our “Governor” is waiting for “Sarmat”. Sense to write off ahead of time what else can serve? Fortunately, Sarmat will not be as heavy an ICBM as Voivod

    Quote: hrych
    for throwing tests are carried out.

    From the cast to the series, the path is not short. The main thing is how LI will go, how it will be thrown out of the Sarmat’s computer shaft, and not what was used in the BI

    Quote: hrych
    Plus Yars - mobile and with multiple BBs, koi and maneuvers gathered, as in the Mace

    What, an order has already been issued to consider unguided warheads on the Yars and Maces maneuvering? But it’s nothing that the 4202 facility is not even a warhead, but a technology demonstrator with dimensions of approximately the following: length about 7 meters, range - around 2-2,5 meters. Is someone going to shove this "Duru" into the "Mace"? And what, all this will stick out of the boat shaft ???

    Quote: hrych
    Do not forget about Sineva and Liner, they have not disappeared, and on Liner there is also a new combat unit.

    And what does that change? The number of blocks increased on these SLBMs? It remained as it was. Theoretically, it can carry more, practically not
  29. Evgeniy667b
    Evgeniy667b 7 January 2018 09: 13 New
    0
    The very unfortunate name is "Admiral Nakhimov." As with Vrungel, as you call a yacht, so it will sail. And what fate was in the namesake of the cruiser, and even the smy adyral ???
  30. Dimmih
    Dimmih 7 January 2018 14: 00 New
    0
    Quote: hrych
    Quote: Dimmih
    And why our dove Are we shy about copying their phones or, at worst, electric shavers?

    It’s more suitable for you, I like the term hawk more laughing the Chinese themselves copied everything, it’s easier to turn to the source laughing If you are talking about the market of electronics and vehicles, then a lot is going to the factories of Japanese and German corporations located in the Russian Federation. But the fact that you have a routine on your mind and this is a beacon for you in life is very bad. We need to focus on the great, so we conquered space, the ocean and the atom. Moreover, on the crest of progress, we, at least, are not inferior to the West, but where we surpass many. As for the Chinese, well, razors started mass production wassat but the engines to the fighters didn’t even copy the mind, I had to buy from us. You see, your problems with vegetation are not interesting to me, here is a site about military equipment, etc., to your home economics site laughing and if you rush here to parch the ruling regime, then to your page Sabchak wassat If you want to discuss, then closer to TTX, there is some kind of military device. Here, according to the draft of Krecheta, the Chinese are sculpting the cruiser, and it carries you into rusty underpants wassat

    Whether a dove, a hawk, all one game ..... Flies, but marks whatever it hits. Not the point. And why did you conquer a big or rather vague question there: deign to provide at least something showing your role in the conquest of space, atom, or at worst, the ocean, otherwise you yourself know who. About obgazhivanie the ruling regime on my part, an example in the studio, otherwise you yourself know twice ..
  31. Kyzmich
    Kyzmich 8 January 2018 17: 34 New
    0
    I'm afraid that fuel oil and steam boilers are not enough for catapults.
    It's been in the US a long time ago on the Kitty Haw series.