Military Review

Jerusalem cannot be traded, Palestine said

128
The representative of the Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas Nabil Abu Rudine in response to the threat of Donald Trump to stop providing financial assistance to the Palestinians said that Jerusalem is not the subject of trade or exchange for money, reports RIA News.




Earlier, the President of the United States wrote on his Twitter account that Palestine was not interested in peace negotiations with Israel, and in this connection questioned the allocation of "hundreds of millions of dollars a year."

Jerusalem and its shrines cannot be traded and exchanged for gold or silver,
Rudain’s statement said.

According to him, "real peace and negotiations are built on a legitimate basis, leading to the creation of an independent Palestinian state with its capital in East Jerusalem."

Recall that in early December, US President Donald Trump announced the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and signed a document on the transfer of the American embassy there from Tel Aviv. This decision was positively received in Israel, however, it caused a negative reaction from many states of the world, first of all the countries of the Middle East and Palestine.
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  1. Shura Perm
    Shura Perm 3 January 2018 14: 53
    +4
    Let the Palestinians inform the neighbors-moneylenders to their neighbors ...
    1. Tusk
      Tusk 3 January 2018 14: 55
      +2
      Jerusalem is an international city! There was and will be ... In Russia there is a Jewish joint-stock company with a capital ..))))
      1. karish
        karish 3 January 2018 15: 01
        16
        Quote: Tusk
        Jerusalem is an international city! Was and will be

        It has never been and never will be.
        Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

        Quote: Tusk
        In Russia there is a Jewish joint-stock company with a capital.

        And Kiev is the capital of Kievan Rus. wink
        1. Shura Perm
          Shura Perm 3 January 2018 15: 13
          +3
          you occupied Jerusalem by lawlessness in the middle of the 20th century, so don’t need Lala ... the capital of Israel, well, the invaders
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 3 January 2018 15: 22
            +8
            Quote: Shura Perm
            you occupied Jerusalem by lawlessness in the middle of the 20th century, so don’t need Lala ... the capital of Israel, well, the invaders

            Which outrage? Jordanians fired on the Jewish part of Jerusalem in 1967 after an Israeli attack on Egyptian troops that drove out UN forces that were buffered between Arabs and Jews. In response, the Jews attacked the Jordanians, took the eastern part of Jerusalem from them, and also knocked out their troops from Judea and Samaria, from which artillery fire was fired on Israel.
            There was no talk of Palestinian Arabs then, East Jerusalem was a Jordanian town ...
            1. Shura Perm
              Shura Perm 3 January 2018 15: 57
              +1
              I'm talking about 1949 and the following, ignoramus ... learn the materiel, how your tribesmen terrorists blew up mosques and set up wild terror in the territories of the Arabs ...
              1. Tatyana
                Tatyana 3 January 2018 16: 12
                0
                In early December, US President Donald Trump announced the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and signed a document on the transfer of the American embassy from Tel Aviv there.
                As the saying goes, "The world in Jerusalem did not have sorrow, so the devils pumped up!"
              2. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 3 January 2018 17: 49
                +3
                Quote: Shura Perm
                I'm talking about 1949 and the following, ignoramus ... learn the materiel, how your tribesmen terrorists blew up mosques and set up wild terror in the territories of the Arabs ...

                ))))
                In 1948, actually, the Arabs drove the Jews out of East Jerusalem (including the Jewish quarter of the Old City), but could not conquer the West, if you insist on accuracy. The arch of the synagogue of the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, blown up by the Arabs, until recently (reconstruction) was one of the symbols of the city. And about wild terror can I learn more? :)
        2. APASUS
          APASUS 3 January 2018 15: 15
          +1
          Quote: karish
          Quote: Tusk
          In Russia there is a Jewish joint-stock company with a capital.
          And Kiev is the capital of Kievan Rus.

          You can refute
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 3 January 2018 15: 17
            +2
            Quote: karish
            Quote: Tusk
            Jerusalem is an international city! Was and will be
            It has never been and never will be.
            Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

            Yes Lando, escalate. He was not always Jewish
            the first settlements date back to the 639th millennium BC. e. In the XI century BC e. the city was occupied by Jews and proclaimed the capital of the kingdom of Israel, and from the X century BC. e. - Jewish. After the collapse of the Roman Empire, Jerusalem went to Byzantium. From this moment begins the Christianization of the city. With the capture in 1099 by the Arab caliph Umar ibn Khattab, the city begins to acquire a Muslim appearance. In 1187–1229 and 1244–XNUMX, Jerusalem was ruled by the crusaders
            1. hrych
              hrych 3 January 2018 15: 47
              +1
              Quote: APASUS
              In the XI century BC e. the city was occupied by Jews and proclaimed the capital of the kingdom of Israel, and from the X century BC. e. - Jewish

              Well, except for Tanach and Joseph, supposedly Flavius ​​no one knows these things laughing
              The treacherous cuneiform writing and the ugly Herodotus did not confirm these tales.
              Quote: APASUS
              After the collapse of the Roman Empire, Jerusalem went to Byzantium.

              There was no Byzantium, there was the Roman Empire, when the Roman emperor Constantine moved the capital to New Rome, it was once renamed from New Rome to Istanbul by the Turks. The terms - Byzantium and Constantinople are an invention of the Greek priests who invented these things after the death of the Roman Empire.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. hrych
                  hrych 3 January 2018 16: 14
                  +1
                  Looked at this print wassat and what did he see? ... but what wassat

                  The proof is fantastic, well ... I agree: a stick, a stick, a cucumber, and in a bequini, and not in long clothes, like a smart lady is grinding wassat how tied to Tanah, I can not imagine. How did you date? But people hawala wassat I will tell you a secret there is no inscription that she says, there are four signs, and they do not look like Aramaic, and even more so there is no inscription of the name of the cityיְרוּשָׁלַיִם wassatYou cannot be fooled by old archaeologists wassat
                  1. Shahno
                    Shahno 3 January 2018 16: 28
                    +4
                    It is written there. Sar a Ir.
                    1. hrych
                      hrych 3 January 2018 16: 47
                      +2
                      Quote: Shahno
                      It is written there. Sar a Ir.

                      You have three vowels wassat The Aramaic alphabet (what book Hebrew uses) does not contain vowels, only consonants wassat Who makes a fool of?
                      1. Lex.
                        Lex. 3 January 2018 17: 22
                        +4
                        You have three vowels Aramaic alphabet
                        Interested in language?
                      2. Shahno
                        Shahno 3 January 2018 18: 02
                        +2
                        In modern Hebrew, שר העיר. On print, ancient Hebrew for high style. In Russian, Minister of the City. It is word for word that the rulers of Jerusalem have so often referred to in the Old Testament, and no other ruler of any other region is named that way.

                        According to archaeologists, this find dates back to the VII-VI centuries BC, that is, the late period of the First Temple.
                        This is the name of Jehoshua, who ruled Jerusalem during the reign of Hezekiah (VIII century BC), and Maasei, who ruled Jerusalem during the reign of Josiah (VII century BC).
                        All versions of the Old Testament are written later in time than the age of the seal.

                        The seal was discovered by archaeologist Shimon Cohen during the sifting of soil on the ruins of a building dating from the late period of the First Temple. This building was located about 100 meters west of the western wall of the Temple (Wailing Wall). Obviously, high-ranking officials could live in it.
                    2. hrych
                      hrych 3 January 2018 18: 49
                      +1
                      Quote: Shahno
                      optical dating

                      I would like a reference on the application of this method for dating this print. How was the calibration, etc. Why did the ruler of Jerusalem? Although the name of the city is not, why the seal cannot be brought from another place where the Phoenician language is native. If these letters are more likely Phoenician than Aramaic, then why be surprised if the letter of the Felistimans, from whom the area is called Palestine, is closer to Phoenician writing than to Aramaic. On the face again, an attempt to pull by the ears, under the text of the legend. We consider the seal to be a captive and what we have is the land of the Felistimans, the signs of the Felistimans, Sar - the king - Caesar - Caesar - this is the name of the rulers from Africa to India. What is better than Tanah?
                      1. Shahno
                        Shahno 3 January 2018 20: 02
                        +3
                        This is a transitional Phoenician letter. Here it is precisely that Sar Il was not mentioned anywhere in a single monument or find as a ruler, and even more so in proto-antite, and this is proto-Hebrew, or the classical Phoenician letter, which practically disappeared by the 7-8 century BC. e. And the Bible confirms this. So this was in reality. Or how Tanakh authors could invent a seal and an older one. If they knew about her, she was in great circulation.
                    3. hrych
                      hrych 3 January 2018 20: 44
                      +1
                      We discard the legends, we take the pope of history - Herodotus, who called this territory Syria Palestinian, or Palestine in the 5th century BC. He does not mention Jews at all. Palestinians according to Herodotus were inhabited by the Syrians and Phoenicians (i.e., the Philistines, though they should clean them up, as if earlier), so the seal in their language should not surprise. And what to do? Herodotus describes the early Scythian invasion of Palestine, when Pharaoh Psamettih persuaded them not to go to Egypt, which again goes against the Tanakh. Therefore, the Phoenician press looks quite normal to itself, though some kind of ugly one could have been more beautiful. By Tanah, traditionally pulled by the ears clearly. The events of the destruction of the First Temple, in 586 BC from Herodotus born around 484 BC as if recent events should be, but he describes the events of old and archeology confirms it and the steles with cuneiform neighbors. Herodotus is difficult to fight, he is paaap laughing
                      1. Aaron Zawi
                        Aaron Zawi 3 January 2018 22: 09
                        +2
                        Quote: hrych
                        We reject the legends, take the pope of history - Herodotus, who called this territory Syria Palestine, or Palestine in the 5 century BC. It’s hard to fight Herodotus, he’s paaap laughing

                        Well Herodotus didn’t write anything, but Tacitus has written enough about the Jews.
                        http://jhistory.nfurman.com/code/greki042.htm
                        And indeed there are enough ancient sources about the Jews. You just have to open your eyes.

                        The philosopher Feofrast (IV-III of her BC) was sympathetic to the Jews and called them the "tribe of wise men", spending time "in conversations with each other about the deity."
                        The historian Hekatei of Abder lived during the time of Alexander the Great (IV century BC) and paid much attention to the Jews and their history in his writings. In particular, he reports that when a rampant disease occurred in Egypt "in ancient times", the people attributed these misfortunes to divine wrath and decided that it was necessary to expel foreigners from the country. Some of them "went to Hellas and to some other countries ... But most of the people went into exile in the land that is now called Judea ... A man named Moses led the migrants, far surpassing others with both wisdom and courage .. "In addition to other cities, he founded the most famous nowadays called Hierosolimy. He also erected the most revered sanctuary among them, taught to honor God and worship him." Gekatei has no anti-Semitic sentiments, he respects most Jewish customs and laws and notes that “later, when the Jews were under the yoke, whether it be the rule of the Persians or the Macedonians who conquered them, it was because of their confusion with foreigners that many of the original Jewish customs have changed. "
                        The historian Hermippus of Smyrna (about 200 BC), talking about the famous philosopher Pythagoras, admits that "Pythagoras brought his philosophy to the Hellenes from the Jews." An interesting testimony of Jews was left by a person living in the second century BC. Agatharchid of Cnidus. It is full of irony in relation to Jewish superstition, but is not anti-Semitic. The author writes: "There is a people called the Jews: possessing the fortified and large city of Hieroso-lima, they allowed Ptolemy to capture him, because they did not want to pick up weapons (on Saturday. - A.V.) and preferred because of their inappropriate god fear put up with a harsh master. "
                        The most educated Roman writer Varron (II-I century BC) respected Jewish monotheism, seeing it as a model of pure and worthy worship of God, and was hostile to pagan images of the gods, believing that "the gods are in the form of insensitive idiots could easily cause contempt. "
                        The famous Plutarch (I-II century AD) mentions the Jews mainly in connection with their observance of the Sabbath and food bans, but he does not consider superstitiousness their peculiarity. There are no hostile statements in his writings.
                        The Stoic philosopher Epictetus (50-130 AD) is neutral towards Jews. He knows the custom of immersion in water when accepting the Jewish faith, but does not condemn him and does not ironize him. In general, many people laughed at a number of Jewish customs, which seemed to Greco-Roman writers as superstitions. For example, the poet of Persia (1st century AD) sneered at the Jews lighting candles and the Jewish custom of serving fish on Friday for dinner. It was ridiculed that the Jewish God did not have a specific name (in contrast to the Greco-Roman "gods), and therefore" the writer Lucan (1st century AD) calls Judea "the slave of his unknown god." Another author, Quintilian (1st century CE) calls Moses "the first inventor of Jewish superstition." Pompeii Trog (1st century BC - 1st century AD) approves the successful state policy of the Jews and writes that "fidelity to the law, coupled with fidelity to God, gave the Jews incredible power." 
                      2. Shahno
                        Shahno 3 January 2018 22: 16
                        +1
                        Yes, of course, I would not argue with Herodotus. But with the reliability of the lists of History (minimum 1-2 century A.D.), why not. If we doubt the Bible lists of the same age. The problem must be considered from different angles. And today an aspect has emerged in defense of the Biblical theory, no more (the seal of the mysterious powerful lord of the city on the site of today's Jerusalem, who signed it as the Old Testament says, and the seal is older, accidentally discovered there, not in Cairo, not in Damascus, lo and behold).
                    4. hrych
                      hrych 3 January 2018 22: 24
                      0
                      Is the Dead Sea visible from Jerusalem?
                      1. Shahno
                        Shahno 3 January 2018 22: 35
                        0
                        We did not drive them there. They hid there themselves. If you are about what I thought.
                    5. hrych
                      hrych 3 January 2018 22: 42
                      0
                      Who did you kick out there? The only question is whether the Dead Sea is visible from the city or not. laughing
                      1. Shahno
                        Shahno 3 January 2018 22: 47
                        +1
                        I beg your pardon. These are all Zeelots. It is seen. In Arad, my school friend .. In Jerusalem, another. In general .... Do not get it wrong.
                      2. Shahno
                        Shahno 3 January 2018 22: 48
                        0
                        A question the answer.
                      3. Neksel
                        Neksel 6 January 2018 07: 32
                        0
                        Quote: hrych
                        Who did you kick out there? The only question is whether the Dead Sea is visible from the city or not. laughing

                        By the way, yes. In good weather, from my window, overlooking the Judean desert, you can see the northern piece. peeps between the hills.
                    6. hrych
                      hrych 3 January 2018 23: 16
                      +1
                      The question is purely about the visual effect, see the sea or not, all, no subtext laughing And for girlfriends respect good
                      1. Shahno
                        Shahno 4 January 2018 00: 03
                        0
                        I do not really have a grunt. In the militia, of course I will see.
                    7. hrych
                      hrych 4 January 2018 01: 28
                      +2
                      Quote: Shahno
                      I do not really have a grunt. In the militia, of course I will see.

                      To find the real place of Jerusalem, and not Elia Capitoline, you need to read Strabo. And he said that the city is visible from the harbor of Iopus, in the Mediterranean Sea, near Caesarea. It should be closer to the Mediterranean Sea. From Jerusalem, the Mediterranean Sea should be visible, not the Dead. Here is information for consideration.
                  2. Lex.
                    Lex. 3 January 2018 17: 20
                    +6
                    Do you not know about radiocarbon analysis?
                    1. hrych
                      hrych 3 January 2018 17: 26
                      +3
                      Quote: Lex.
                      Do you not know about radiocarbon analysis?

                      What? Clays? wassat Clay origin from the Cambrian period wassat The radiocarbon method is only for organics.
                      Quote: Lex.
                      Interested in language?

                      In Hebrew, a consonant letter is used, the alphabet consists of consonants, and in the 6th century BC, unfortunately, they are not familiar with the works of masoretes wassat And so the Aramaic signs are native to the whole BV, before the Macedonians, the Aramaic was the lingua franca of the Persian Empire. Those. had the status of diplomatic language, accounting and writing of the Persian Empire. Therefore, primary, any Aramaic sign speaks of Phoenicians, Persians, etc. For Hebrew is secondary, and Aramaic is primary and this is an axiom.
                      1. Shahno
                        Shahno 3 January 2018 18: 11
                        +3
                        To be precise, the age is determined by the optical dating method, which allowed the chem. the composition of the seal (when the mineral was last exposed to light) and the location of the seal (absence of light).
        3. hrych
          hrych 3 January 2018 16: 01
          +2
          Quote: karish
          It has never been and never will be.

          Whether the story this minute is over. Whether the future is known laughing
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 3 January 2018 23: 09
            +2
            Quote: hrych
            Whether the story this minute is over. Whether the future is known

            In the II century BC. Oe., after the defeat of the second Jewish uprising (Bar-Kochba, 135), the Roman conquerors of the Land of Israel, having expelled a large part of the Jewish population and wanting to erase from memory of the descendants the connection of this country (then called Israel and Judea) with the Jews, remembered the ancient the Philistines. They renamed Israel to Syria Palaestinei, which literally translated “Palestinian Syria”, and added it to the already existing Roman province of Syria (for the first time, the expression “Palestinian Syria” is actually found in Herodotus - the court historians of the emperor Adrian remembered it when they carried out his political order).
            So, this name survived both the Philistines and the Romans (just as the name of the country of Syria survived the ancient Syrians, who were exterminated and assimilated by the Arab conquerors after the Romans and Byzantines left them). In the Middle Ages, the name "Palestine" was associated with the biblical land seized by the Saracens - the Arabs were then called in Europe. The Saracens themselves, by the way, used this name when they invaded the desolate Land of Israel in 638 year BC. er and the Land of Israel became the province of Falastyn of the Arab Caliphate. Then the first Arabs settled in Palestine. For many centuries this land was an almost deserted desert. Four centuries later the Arab rulers were replaced by crusaders and Turks for long centuries, and the name Palestine remained. So in Europe they called the biblical Holy Land - the homeland of the Jews. As a geographical whole, Palestine had unclear and constantly moving boundaries. Palestine was not a geographical unit in any sense of the word. Under Ottoman rule, which continued from 1516 to 1918, Palestine was divided into several districts, called Sanjaks. These sanjaks belonged to larger administrative units called wilayets. Most of Palestine was part of the Syrian vilayet and was governed by a pasha from Damascus. This explains the fact that Palestine usually belonged to southern Syria. Accordingly, no state of Palestine has ever existed.
            As for Jerusalem, it was 400 years old - until 1917, it was part of the Beirut Vilayta of the Ottoman Empire. From 1922 to 1948 the year Jerusalem was the administrative center of the English Mandated Territory. In November 1947, the UN General Assembly adopted resolution 181 (II). The resolution provided for Jerusalem a special international status that was to be provided by the United Nations through the Trusteeship Council. However, the status did not come into force, since on the day of the proclamation of the independence of the state of Israel, 15 of May 1948, Jerusalem was attacked by the strike forces of the Transjordan Arab Legion. I draw attention to the fact that, until this time, Jerusalem was an integral city, without any division. As a result of the full-scale military actions of the Arab-Israeli war, by the end of 1948, West Jerusalem was under the control of Israel, and East, including the Old City, under the control of Transjordan. 13 December 1948, East Jerusalem was annexed by Transjordan. 5 December 1949, Israel declared West Jerusalem its the capital. In April 1950, Transjordan also declared Jerusalem its second capital. In this status, Jerusalem was almost 20 years. (No Palestinian people were ever heard of at that time.) During the Six Day War 1967, the Jordanian army was defeated in two days and Jordan lost Jerusalem. The city was united. Former rulers of Jerusalem - Turkey, Britain and Jordan no longer made territorial claims. In 1980, Israel passed a basic law by which East Jerusalem officially annexed and united city declared the capital of Israel. (I deliberately do not cite various resolutions of the UN on non-recognition of Jordanian and Israeli annexations here, since they were not relevant after the UN Assembly canceled the decision to allocate funds for permanent international status in Jerusalem, thereby removing their claims to manage this city.) Since then and to this day, already 50 years (fifty years, Karl!), The united Jerusalem is controlled, supplied, cleaned, guarded, treated and so forth and so forth by Israel. Another protagonist unexpectedly appeared on our stage - the Palestinian National Authority. It is she who allegedly makes today her claims to Jerusalem. At least in its eastern part. However, further political declarations are not the case, for claims of this kind can put forward exclusively stateand even then, having justified their position well, after all, Israel did not take Jerusalem away from any "state of Palestine". The world political processes are not a simple thing, it is possible that in time, such a state will appear - "Palestine" and it will be able to prove its ability to govern the city and rightfully state its claims. For the time being, the PNA has not yet become a state, it cannot properly dispose of its own territories under its control (incitement to terror and beautiful slogans about the “inalienable right of the Palestinian people” cannot be fed to the people (Jerusalem’s city budget is about a quarter of the PNA’s budget) of which humanitarian aid, and the remaining 2 / 3 - the deficit), and the Gaza Strip, in general, Hamas manages), respectively, and talk, for the time being, there is nothing. Something like that.
            1. hrych
              hrych 3 January 2018 23: 37
              +2
              Oh, how much, well read. It's not about the Romans, it's about Herodotus, there is a discrepancy, and he is like a contemporary, at least for the construction of the Second Temple. Nevermind. To begin with, Syria and the Syrian Palestinian Empire of the Seleucids, i.e. Macedonians chopped off Gnei Pompey. The tyrant was Alexander, his sons were Hyrcanus and Aristobulus. Not Abram, not Absalom, but purely Greek-Macedonian names. The whole point, after that ruled by ethnarchs, tetrarchs, prosecutors, all citizens of Rome. Why was it necessary to storm and destroy their city of Vespasian? For a hundred years the city was Roman - the stupidity attributed to Yosip, who allegedly took Vespasian’s surname laughing Further, why it was necessary to destroy the city, and then build a new one in its place, it would not be easier to genocide the population, kill the men there, drive the rest into slavery, and not bother with memory corruption. Why did all the other occupied territories retain their names, and then suddenly it was necessary to return the old, etc. Such inconsistencies smell bad. And the main problem for Tanakh is that, at the very least, peoples and countries correspond, but the chronology and complete discrepancy of the names of the kings do not correspond. Egyptian pharaohs are not called at all in principle, although, as if half the story is connected with Egypt, the Persian kings have no analogues, the campaign of Nabucco was in Anatolia. That says that the person wrote who did not own information at that time, which corresponds to the approximate knowledge of the times of Maimonides, now everything looks different. And skipping the Empire, the people and the metropolis with a chronology of five hundred years is very strange. Here either Herodotus is lying, or someone else. But there are Hittite, Akkadian and Babylonian cuneiform libraries, there is archeology, and all this coincided with Herodotus. So lying another.
              1. A. Privalov
                A. Privalov 4 January 2018 09: 51
                +1
                Quote: hrych
                Not Abram, not Absalom, but purely Greek-Macedonian names.

                From the fact that their name was not Abrasha and not Izzy or Syom, they did not cease to be Jews. Etnarh, this is a ruler. Hirkan - king of Judah, ethnarch, and the high priest of the Hasmonean dynasty. In general, according to you, the Hasmoneans were who? North American Indians? Australian aborigines? Zamette, I have nothing against either of those or others!
                1. hrych
                  hrych 4 January 2018 11: 15
                  +1
                  No, since the capture of the area by Pompey, no independent actions are possible, if Jerusalem recognized the power of Rome, this is one thing, but Pompey took it by storm. What did Strabo write about, and he is almost a contemporary. As expected after the assault - robbery, violence, beating of the male population and the sale of all into slavery. This is the law. If we find ourselves in gospel times, after a hundred years, then what we see at the head of the Roman is the procurator Pilate, the Roman Herod Agrippa, the grandson of Herod the Great, the non-Jew, the son of Antipater, the Roman procurator of Judea. All Jews are not there, only the Romans, or the citizens of Rome of a different ethnicity. Moreover, it was not the king, but the tetrarch, the king-emperor Tiberius, before him Augustus. Everything is not subject to appeal.
                  Before Pompey there was the Seleucid Empire - the most powerful of the Macedonian heritage, they fought with the Ptolemies in Syria and Palestine Syria, which the Hasmoneans might be there. The most powerful armies that only Rome could crush, and even taking advantage of the contradictions of the Selefkids and the Ptolemies. Strabo calls the Greek names of Alexander and Aristobulus, but does not call them Jews, they are the most common Seleucids and Macedonians, and only the fake Yosipa again draws to us the mystical kingdom of some Hasmoneans. Immediately we see Antipater the son of Antipas with the same Greek name and a non-Jew, married to the Arabian princess of Cyprus. He gave birth to Herod the Great, received the post of procurator (not king). Therefore, Christ was led from one procurator to another, and not from a procurator to the king. The king was Tiberius. Therefore, the Hasmoneans are an invention with a single reference to Yosif like Flavius, which discords with more authoritative chroniclers like Strabo. And Strabo described the rulers of Palestine as descendants of Seleucus and no Hasmoneans. The Seleucids lost to Syria the Palestinian Rome and before the Arab conquest, Rome was here.
                2. hrych
                  hrych 4 January 2018 11: 29
                  0
                  What does Strabo write about Syria
                  I take parts of Syria starting from Cilicia and the mountain of Aman: it is Kommagena and the so-called “Seleucid of Syria”, Celesiria and, finally, on the coast of Phenicia, and inside the country - Judea. Some divide all of Syria into the country of the Kelesyrians, Syrians and Phoenicians and claim that 4 more are mixed with these tribes - Jews, Idumeans, Gazeans and Azotians; they are partly farmers, like the Syrians and Kelesirians, and partly trade, like the Phoenicians.
                  1. A. Privalov
                    A. Privalov 4 January 2018 15: 07
                    +2
                    Quote: hrych
                    Strabo

                    Strabo, of course, is great and "almost contemporary," but when Rome captured Judea, he was only born, and died more than 100 years before the Bar Kochba rebellion. Yes, in 135, the Romans expelled the majority of Jews from the country and renamed Judea Province to Palestine Syria. Yes, many rulers passed through these lands, but the Jewish presence never dried out there. Flavius, in your opinion, turned out to be not a frail pranker and notably pinned: Hasmonei and fake, the Maccabees too. Where are all these Romans, Byzantines, crusaders and other Umayyads with Abassids now? From the Ottoman Empire remained only a sworn friend of the Russian Federation, permanently sticking a knife in the back and immediately buying expensive Russian air defense systems for Russian loans. Yes, and around I see solid "ancient countries" cut by Britain and France in the 20-e / 40-e of the last century. As the late Saddat correctly noted: "Egypt is the only Arab country in the Middle East. All the rest are tribes with flags." Be healthy. All the best to you. hi
                3. hrych
                  hrych 4 January 2018 15: 39
                  0
                  Quote: A. Privalov
                  renamed the province of Judea to Palestine Syria

                  This is Herodotovo name from the 5 century, no one renamed. Turkey and Iran are still powerful states with a population of under 80 million each, Egypt under 100 million. Nuclear Pakistan with 200 million population, which has quarreled with the United States. Yes, everyone has a large but slightly backward army, but everyone is buying modern advanced systems. It is necessary to solve the Palestinian question and still relieve tension. Divide Elijah, armed with Strabo, to find the place of the present Jerusalem, which should be visible from the Mediterranean Sea for the United States and the EU at the crucial moment betrayed, as happened more than once, putting the Suez Canal in the first place, oil and sales market. My opinion is laughing And you all the best and above all peace in 2018 year drinks
                  1. Pancir026
                    Pancir026 4 January 2018 15: 46
                    +1
                    Quote: hrych
                    . It is necessary to solve the Palestinian question and still relieve tension.

                    Jews should not have a state, since they are scattered throughout the world by the will of God. ”

                    One of the main American channels, Fox News, showed an interview taken by journalist Neil Cavuto from Rabbi Israel Weiss, a member of the Union of Jews Against Zionism organization.

                    In an interview, the rabbi quoted the Torah as saying: “Jews should not have a state, since they are scattered around the world by the will of God.”
                    Interesting things are happening there.
                    https://cont.ws/@slavikapple/813524
                  2. A. Privalov
                    A. Privalov 4 January 2018 20: 07
                    +2
                    Quote: hrych
                    Quote: A. Privalov
                    renamed the province of Judea to Palestine Syria

                    This is Herodotovo name from the 5 century, no one renamed. Turkey and Iran are still powerful states with a population of under 80 million each, Egypt under 100 million. Nuclear Pakistan with 200 million population, which has quarreled with the United States. Yes, everyone has a large but slightly backward army, but everyone is buying modern advanced systems. It is necessary to solve the Palestinian question and still relieve tension. Divide Elijah, armed with Strabo, to find the place of the present Jerusalem, which should be visible from the Mediterranean Sea for the United States and the EU at the crucial moment betrayed, as happened more than once, putting the Suez Canal in the first place, oil and sales market. My opinion is laughing And you all the best and above all peace in 2018 year drinks

                    PS
                    Turkey hates a poor but proud Egypt. Beggar but proud Egypt hates Turkey. Together they hate Iran. Pakistan has no side here. Americans just fed up with the parasites. Now, Pakistan is developing relations with the Russian Federation. He urgently needs money (big). True, Russia does not have American billions, but if it wants a couple of other three military bases, now in Pakistan, then anything is possible. Are you fighting for the Syrian brothers? Get ready to feed the Pakistani. Herodotovu name 2500 years, but to the good of this-- zero. This is just the name of a piece of land. States with such a name never existed. Those who now call themselves Palestinians have nothing more to do with Herodotous Palestine than the Etruscans do with shorts.

                    Of course, nations can appear and disappear. In my eyes, for example, the Soviet people were formed and disappeared. Today's younger generation does not even know what it is. But it was not just the people, but the GREAT SOVIET PEOPLE! Suddenly appeared at the beginning of 60-s of the last century, the "Palestinian people", the Arabs do not want to feed anymore. The staff also stopped feeding. Now they will stop transferring money to UNRWA and all the "Palestinian refugees" will disappear right away. With them, the question will disappear. True, it will take some time. After all, there is also the Russian Federation. So, get ready to feed the Palestinian brothers. Fantastic historiography - paraffin is not mine. With this, to the followers of Fomenko and others. Alternatives. As for betrayal, Israel is no stranger. He coped when he was ten times weaker. Cope now. “Masada will not fall again!” (C) Congratulations and wishes are mutual. drinks
                    1. Shahno
                      Shahno 4 January 2018 20: 13
                      0
                      Matsada will not fall.
                      But we need friends. And these are Russians.
                      1. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 4 January 2018 20: 21
                        +3
                        Quote: Shahno
                        Matsada will not fall.
                        But we need friends. And these are Russians.

                        Russians traditionally feed all terrorist shelupon in our area. Their friends are Hezbollah and Hamas. Doesn't that bother you?
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. The comment was deleted.
        6. Hottabych
          Hottabych 3 January 2018 16: 45
          +1
          Quote: karish
          And Kiev is the capital of Kievan Rus.

          But are you not afraid, our cunning brothers, that Kiev will be the capital of Russia? You now apparently have such a government in Ukraine politically beneficial. But, there are fascists? ...
          1. Uranimus
            Uranimus 4 January 2018 09: 54
            +1
            Old man Hotabych, no one from the "cunning brothers" will answer you such a question. That's why they are cunning. And they are not the first to support the Nazis. Another thing is the memory of the ancestors who died in the gas chambers, but the memory that you are a sly brother and the smell of money is stronger !!!
      2. Dzungar
        Dzungar 3 January 2018 16: 46
        0
        Quote: Tusk
        .In Russia there is a Jewish joint-stock company with a capital ..))))

        Just do not need it ... Nowhere with us. They have their own Earth ....
        1. alexsipin
          alexsipin 3 January 2018 19: 10
          +1
          Quote: Dzungar
          Just do not need it ... Nowhere with us. They have their own Earth ....

          100%
          In 10 years it will be possible to rename your EAO to China AO
          1. Dzungar
            Dzungar 3 January 2018 20: 30
            0
            Let's see .... But yours are few there, so the name is symbolic
            1. alexsipin
              alexsipin 3 January 2018 23: 24
              +1
              Quote: Dzungar
              Let's see .... But yours are few there, so the name is symbolic

              That's what I'm talking about. It's time to rename. There are fewer Jews than in Iran
    2. karish
      karish 3 January 2018 14: 59
      +8
      Quote: Shura Perm
      Let the Palestinians inform the neighbors-moneylenders to their neighbors ...

      Time will tell.
      Something seems to me that in the near future they will forget about their expressions.
      Trump well done, it's high time they stopped giving grandmas to them ..
    3. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 3 January 2018 15: 11
      +6
      Quote: Shura Perm
      Let the Palestinians inform the neighbors-moneylenders to their neighbors ...

      Saw Shura ...
      1. hrych
        hrych 3 January 2018 22: 40
        0
        Tacitus is after the Gospel events, and it’s not very interesting, from Herodotus for five hundred years, and what he describes about religion and mores, it’s better not to read, you must immediately put the seal of the anti-Semite. Much more interesting is the data of Strabo, he lived at the junction of the new and old era and there are interesting facts.
  2. kpotr
    kpotr 3 January 2018 14: 58
    +5
    I think that the Jews completely agree with the statement.
  3. Hoc vince
    Hoc vince 3 January 2018 15: 09
    +3
    Kosovo, now Jerusalem, other countries will do the same, capture foreign cities and recognize them as theirs.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 3 January 2018 15: 17
      +3
      Quote: Hoc vince
      Kosovo, now Jerusalem, other countries will do the same, capture foreign cities and recognize them as theirs.

      Looking to whom Jerusalem is a stranger, and to whom ...

      On Monday, January 1, the Israel Antiquities Authority announced a unique find: during excavations near the Wailing Wall, a unique clay seal belonging to the ruler of Jerusalem 2700 years ago was found.

    2. alexsipin
      alexsipin 3 January 2018 19: 11
      +1
      Quote: Hoc vince
      Kosovo, now Jerusalem, other countries will do the same, capture foreign cities and recognize them as theirs.

      You did just that with Crimea.
  4. Professor
    Professor 3 January 2018 15: 14
    +8
    Jerusalem cannot be traded, Palestine said

    In Palestine? No, I don’t know that. What do they think of Jerusalem in Atlantis?
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 3 January 2018 15: 30
      +4
      Quote: Professor
      Jerusalem cannot be traded, Palestine said

      In Palestine? No, I don’t know that. What do they think of Jerusalem in Atlantis?

      The main thing is that the Amazons do not protest.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 3 January 2018 15: 34
        +1
        Quote: Krasnodar
        The main thing is that the Amazons do not protest.

        And how can the Amazons protest about this? They’ll probably cut off their second breast sad)))
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 3 January 2018 15: 52
          +2
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The main thing is that the Amazons do not protest.

          And how can the Amazons protest about this? They’ll probably cut off their second breast sad)))

          For example.
        2. alexsipin
          alexsipin 3 January 2018 19: 14
          +3
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          And how can the Amazons express their protest about this? The second breast will probably be cut off for themselves)))

          That's it:
    2. Shura Perm
      Shura Perm 3 January 2018 16: 33
      +2
      let me remind you, professor, Palestine, this is the country that you occupied almost half a century in full
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 3 January 2018 17: 11
        +4
        Quote: Shura Perm
        let me remind you, professor, Palestine, this is the country that you occupied almost half a century in full

        And who and when was the president of this country? Can you name at least one Palestinian writer published in 1950?
        1. hrych
          hrych 3 January 2018 22: 47
          +1
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          Can you name at least one Palestinian writer published in 1950?

          I don’t know a single Israeli writer. laughing And for some reason I’m not ashamed, to be honest. I own Russian and foreign classics, if to the fact that you can’t hug me into ignorance wassat
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 3 January 2018 23: 07
            +1
            Quote: hrych
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            Can you name at least one Palestinian writer published in 1950?

            I don’t know a single Israeli writer. laughing And for some reason I’m not ashamed, to be honest. I own Russian and foreign classics, if to the fact that you can’t hug me into ignorance wassat

            I apologize, but let me remind you that Shaul Agnon became the Nobel laureate in literature in the 1966 year. Is this a classic or?
            1. hrych
              hrych 3 January 2018 23: 56
              +1
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              in 1966 year

              Of course not. Even Sholokhov and Bulgakov are not classics. This is the literature of the 20th century. Although brilliant. Classic is an adjective characterizing a recognized work of a bygone era. To become a classic it’s not enough to get the Nobel, there is a weak writer Solzhenitsyn who received for treason, there are even obama-like laureates. If we take Russian classics, then it is limited to the so-called Silver Age. If you want, Sholom Aleichem gets there with works in Russian and Yiddish ..
              1. Shahno
                Shahno 3 January 2018 23: 58
                +1
                Well, Bulgakov. Well, not the topic ... Well, it's not worth it for you to support the Russian.
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 3 January 2018 17: 52
        +4
        Quote: Shura Perm
        let me remind you, professor, Palestine, this is the country that you occupied almost half a century in full

        Is Palestine a country? ))))
        Then Altai is probably the state ...
        1. hrych
          hrych 3 January 2018 22: 48
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Is Palestine a country?

          So there is a UN resolution like that. The state institutions of the Palestinian Authority do have a place to be. And it is not necessary to represent them as complete ignoramuses. Cope with the construction of the state, the main thing is to give them an opportunity.
  5. Lexus
    Lexus 3 January 2018 15: 31
    11
    What's the difference to us? Are there any other more pressing problems?
  6. Masya masya
    Masya masya 3 January 2018 15: 31
    +5
    Earlier, the President of the United States wrote in his “Twitter” that Palestine was not interested in peace talks with Israel, and questioned the allocation of “hundreds of millions of dollars a year” in this regard.
    Shtatov’s favorite method is blatant blackmail!
  7. 32363
    32363 3 January 2018 15: 31
    0
    reality, bring down to Crimea, there is your land.
    1. alexsipin
      alexsipin 3 January 2018 19: 17
      +2
      Quote: 32363
      reality, bring down to Crimea, there is your land.

      The gloomy Teutonic genius found a solution to the problem.
  8. brigadir
    brigadir 3 January 2018 15: 36
    +6
    But what do they want from Abbas? - so that he would negotiate with Israel on a solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict with the participation of the United States. But do you see whether the USA is not suitable for him and he does not want to have affairs with the USA. And to receive money, hundreds of millions of dollars a year, 90% which settles in his pockets and those close to him - is it not bad?
    Today, on the way to work, I listened to the performance of Avi Dichter, who was the head of Bet tires at the time, on army radio. In total, there are about 64 million officially recognized refugees in the world, assisted by the UN and its agencies. All these refugees are occupied by 10 people on a UN salary.
    Palestinian refugees are brought to a separate point and there are only 5 million of them - this includes ALL so-called Palestinians - and residents of the West Bank and Gaza and Lebanon - all who call themselves "Palestinians." These people are engaged in 30000 people on the UN salary. Did you notice the difference? 10000 for 64 million and 30000 for 5 million. 90% of this salary money comes from the United States and all recipients live in Gaza or on the West Bank. If the United States stops transferring money to UNRWA (the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East), Abbas will have big problems. So he will not be able to scatter money on any side.
    Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. This is a medical fact. Maybe someone does not like it - but this is his problem.
    1. Vard
      Vard 3 January 2018 15: 43
      +4
      There is no objection ... Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Crimea is part of Russia ...
      1. Esoteric
        Esoteric 3 January 2018 16: 15
        +5
        Quote: Vard
        Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Crimea is part of Russia ...


        And also part of Russia - Alaska and California ... belay request
        You, gentlemen of Judah, did not have to lead Jesus to the crucifixion and you would not have problems. And when you gain courage only with the support of the United States, it means that you are not able to resolve issues peacefully. For Russia, there must be priority in resolving its own internal problems. And the division of the city located on the territory of Israel should be left to the residents living there, without the participation of such "main intermediaries" as the United States.
        1. alexsipin
          alexsipin 3 January 2018 19: 18
          +2
          Quote: Esoteric
          You, gentlemen of Judah, did not have to lead Jesus to the crucifixion and you would not have problems.

          Did the Arabs live in Jerusalem at that time?
    2. flicker
      flicker 3 January 2018 16: 23
      +2
      "If the US stops transferring money to UNRWA ...."
      ------
      ... then, most likely, more frequent attacks and shelling belay
      ... transferred money is a management tool: there is money - there is management, there is no money - there is no management
      1. Dzungar
        Dzungar 3 January 2018 16: 54
        0
        Quote: flicker
        If the United States stops transferring money to UNRWA .... "
        ------
        ... then, most likely, more frequent attacks and shelling
        ... transferred money is a management tool: there is money - there is management, there is no money - there is no management

        That Iran will give money .....
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 3 January 2018 17: 54
          0
          Quote: Dzungar
          Quote: flicker
          If the United States stops transferring money to UNRWA .... "
          ------
          ... then, most likely, more frequent attacks and shelling
          ... transferred money is a management tool: there is money - there is management, there is no money - there is no management

          That Iran will give money .....

          In Iran, mass demonstrations are now going against squandering funds for Iraq, Syria and Hezbollah ... where are the Palestinians ...
        2. flicker
          flicker 3 January 2018 18: 31
          +2
          ... take control
        3. alexsipin
          alexsipin 3 January 2018 19: 23
          +3
          Quote: Dzungar
          That Iran will give money .....

          Iran 2 wars wars in Syria in Yemen. There will soon be nothing to eat, and Wishlist in the mullahs are growing. Most Iranians do not want war and confrontation with Israel.
          1. flicker
            flicker 3 January 2018 20: 24
            +2
            Wars can be wanted only by those who will not directly participate in it (read: to die) - they will be far away or will be drained away from the combat zone. The vast majority do not need a war, I think among them Iran and Israel. Those who have difficult interstate relations, but which, fortunately, do not turn into a hot war, still have sober heads. But there are TE (world-famous arsonists) who really want to push Iran and Israel into a hot war.
          2. Hottabych
            Hottabych 3 January 2018 21: 59
            0
            But, for some reason, most Israelis) want a confrontation with Iran. Does not run into any thought?
            1. flicker
              flicker 3 January 2018 23: 07
              +2
              Well, they want the mattresses to do it for them, and they did it quickly and angrily. The latter are not eager to die, even for the allies, just to bomb - to be able, to die - no. Moreover, the time will come when they will throw their allies (Israel) into the furnace of war, though it will be when their first echelon of soldiers (terrorists) disappears.
              And it seems that this time is just around the corner. sad
  9. Dormidont
    Dormidont 3 January 2018 16: 10
    +1
    As the general people say: if you can’t, but really want to, then you can
  10. Dzungar
    Dzungar 3 January 2018 16: 44
    +1
    They say that the Messiah is already in the flesh .... And soon he will appear to the world. When a Jewish temple arises on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem ....
    1. alexsipin
      alexsipin 3 January 2018 19: 24
      +1
      Quote: Dzungar
      They say that the Messiah is already in the flesh .... And soon he will appear to the world. When a Jewish temple arises on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem ....

      On the contrary, first Mashiach, then the temple.
      1. Dzungar
        Dzungar 3 January 2018 20: 37
        0
        It will be difficult for you ....
        1. alexsipin
          alexsipin 3 January 2018 21: 41
          +1
          Quote: Dzungar
          It will be difficult for you ....

          And who is easy now?
  11. borys
    borys 3 January 2018 17: 46
    +2
    Here, Israeli comrades often refer to the Bible. The book is interesting, but in no case is not a legally binding document. Not a penny! It is possible that there was a completely capable Jewish state with
    the capital in Jerusalem. But could not resist. Then, for almost two thousand
    For years, no Jewish state existed in nature. Modern
    the Jewish state is about 70 years old and it appeared with permission and with the help of
    several strong states. Without external support, Israel would have been removed from its place by Arab neighbors. The desire of the Israelites to reign supreme
    Jerusalem is understandable, but this does not become legal.
    1. Strips
      Strips 4 January 2018 08: 07
      +1
      Quote: borys
      Without external support, Israel would have been removed from its place by Arab neighbors. The desire of the Israelites to reign supreme


      Without external support, the USSR could not survive the Second World War.
      Like the Arab neighbors, they also had weapons not from the air.




      ... Now they say that the Allies never helped us ... But it cannot be denied that the Americans drove us so much material without which we could not build up our reserves and could not continue the war ... We got 350 thousand cars, but what kind of cars !. We didn’t have explosives, gunpowder. There was nothing to equip rifle cartridges. The Americans really helped us out with gunpowder, explosives. And how much they drove us to sheet steel. How could we quickly establish the production of tanks, if not for the American help with steel. And now they present the matter in such a way that we had all of this in abundance
      - Karpov V.V. Marshal Zhukov: Opal. - M .: Veche, 1994.



      Yes, not for free, so Israel bought in Czechoslovakia, and did not receive for free, as in other places.
  12. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 3 January 2018 17: 51
    0
    "The new state (Israel) was created by a decision of the UN Security Council in 1948.
    According to this resolution, it was proposed to create two states in Palestine - Jewish и arabic and Jerusalem put under international control. Of these provisions, it has so far been implemented just one thing -creation of a Jewish state ...
    At the same time, both powers of the USSR and the USA supported the decision.
    Moreover, in the immediately ensuing Arab-Israeli clashes, both of them provided military assistance to the Jewish side ...
    Ben-Gurion with his courage always reminded of this: “If now I accept you in the Jewish state,” he told Israeli TV reporters, “we owe this much more to the Soviet Union than to the United States, because during our war of independence, when we were surrounded by Arab armies, we didn’t get from The United States not a single gun. "
    “Even more strikingly, almost all non-Jewish leaders of the wife had Jewish women.
    So, Dzerzhinsky’s wife was Sonya Mushkat; Bukharin was one wife Guruanother - Lurie; Rykov's wife was Marshak, Molotova - Pearl (Pearl Karpovskaya), Voroshilova - Humpman, Yezhova - E.S. Notkina, Kuybysheva -Kogan, Andreeva - Hazan .
    And so it went on until Marshal Zhukov (1st wife) and Brezhnev. "
    Igor Rostislavovich Shafarevich
    "The Big Secret of a Small People"
    PS the night cuckoo has a bite to eat - Russian proverb.
  13. cedar
    cedar 3 January 2018 19: 06
    +2
    Quote: Dzungar
    They say that the Messiah is already in the flesh .... And soon he will appear to the world. When a Jewish temple arises on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem ....


    In any case, everything is ready for Zion, but Muslim mosques on the Temple Mount interfere, and time is running out ...
    We see at the root of events in the BV and in the World, dear ...
  14. alexsipin
    alexsipin 3 January 2018 19: 28
    +2
    Quote: borys
    Here, Israeli comrades often refer to the Bible. The book is interesting, but in no case is not a legally binding document. Not a penny! It is possible that there was a completely capable Jewish state with
    the capital in Jerusalem. But could not resist. Then, for almost two thousand
    For years, no Jewish state existed in nature. Modern
    the Jewish state is about 70 years old and it appeared with permission and with the help of
    several strong states. Without external support, Israel would have been removed from its place by Arab neighbors. The desire of the Israelites to reign supreme
    Jerusalem is understandable, but this does not become legal.

    And who on the planet Earth determines the legality of certain actions of countries?
  15. alexsipin
    alexsipin 3 January 2018 19: 31
    +2
    Quote: Comrade Kim

    Igor Rostislavovich Shafarevich
    "The Big Secret of a Small People"
    PS the night cuckoo has a bite to eat - Russian proverb.

    Shafarevich did more for the emigration of Soviet Jewry (consider Zionism) than the entire Israeli Sokhnut and Mossad combined.
    1. Pancir026
      Pancir026 3 January 2018 19: 46
      0
      Quote: alexsipin
      Shafarevich did more for the emigration of Soviet Jewry (consider Zionism) than the entire Israeli Sokhnut and Mossad combined.

      In other words, Shafarevich did much harm to Russia much more than the Tsru, and the Mossads put together are dry.
      1. alexsipin
        alexsipin 3 January 2018 20: 26
        +1
        Quote: Pancir026
        In other words, Shafarevich did much harm to Russia much more than the Tsru, and the Mossads combined

        In the Jewish environment, Shafarevich is considered the author of a theoretical justification for the need for pogroms. Why on earth do we live in a state where such theories are cultivated?
        1. Pancir026
          Pancir026 3 January 2018 20: 45
          +1
          Quote: alexsipin
          In the Jewish environment, Shafarevich is considered the author of a theoretical rationale for the need for pogroms.

          And in our environment, this clever mathematician and equally stupid inventor of the theory of nationalism for Russians is considered one of those who contributed to the destruction of the country, even at the end of life, did not understand that the West was able to destroy the country through its xenophobia, ultimately striking Russian, for the welfare of which this figure was so baked.
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 3 January 2018 22: 09
            +3
            Quote: Pancir026
            Quote: alexsipin
            In the Jewish environment, Shafarevich is considered the author of a theoretical rationale for the need for pogroms.

            And in our environment, this clever mathematician and equally stupid inventor of the theory of nationalism for Russians is considered one of those who contributed to the destruction of the country, even at the end of life, did not understand that the West was able to destroy the country through its xenophobia, ultimately striking Russian, for the welfare of which this figure was so baked.

            Moreover, on the slope of days Shafarevich turned to Judaism. Close and friends were perplexed. He explained that he wanted to die with the full knowledge that another Jew on earth had become smaller.
            1. flicker
              flicker 4 January 2018 01: 27
              +2
              That's really how many people have so many opinions. Shafarevich, as I understand it, ranked himself among the Jewish people and sincerely loved him, trying to understand his fate, his peculiarity.
              And his words “he wants to die with the full knowledge that another Jew on earth has become smaller” and that he “converted to Judaism” are not of anecdotal origin, but just emphasize his love for his people.
          2. alexsipin
            alexsipin 3 January 2018 23: 30
            0
            Quote: Pancir026
            And in our environment, this clever mathematician and equally stupid inventor of the theory of nationalism for Russians is considered one of those who contributed to the destruction of the country, even at the end of life, did not understand that the West was able to destroy the country through its xenophobia, ultimately striking Russian, for the welfare of which this figure was so baked.

            I agree with you. But I think your opinion is the opinion of a very small sane group of people. Shafarevich is still very popular in Russia, his books are published in tens of thousands.
        2. Comrade Kim
          Comrade Kim 4 January 2018 20: 46
          0
          Help about the pogroms:
          "... for example, at the Sinist congresses they talked a lot about the Romanian pogroms, and about the English pogroms (especially in Wales), but in the end the accusation remained on Russia"

          Is this due to the fact that in Russia at that time (the time of the so-called pogroms) most Jews lived (more than 50% or 6 people).

          A. Solzhenitsyn gives a review of publications about the Kishenyev pogrom, where in many cases the evidence of the liberal press of the Russian government in organizing the pogrom is unproven.
          After the February Revolution was created commission for the disclosure of the atrocities of the Tsarist government (and a separate special commission on pogroms) with the inclusion of prominent Jewish representatives - and no no documents indicating the organization of the pogrom by the authorities were published.
          But here no publication of facts can already help - created myth is a more solid part of mass consciousness than contradicting it data.
          And yet, these violence from the 1880s to the beginning of the twentieth century did not compare with the fierce clashes that took place relatively shortly before the Gaidamatchin, Bogdan Khmelnitsky, etc. on the same lands when they belonged to Poland.

          Digression.
          One of the leaders of Zionism, H. Weizman (Russian Jew), recalled that during the First Pestilence War, while in England, he spoke with hatred about Russia.
          His interlocutor was surprised: how can a man sympathizing with England treat Russia like this when she does so much to win.
          To this, Weizmann, as he recalls, replied that "every Russian victory is a nightmare for the Jews."
  16. Hurricane70
    Hurricane70 3 January 2018 20: 40
    0
    Quote: karish
    Quote: Tusk
    Jerusalem is an international city! Was and will be

    It has never been and never will be.
    Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

    Quote: Tusk
    In Russia there is a Jewish joint-stock company with a capital.

    And Kiev is the capital of Kievan Rus. wink

    Mow under the Jew, teach your story!
    "... Orthodox Jews consider the creation of the state of Israel to be blasphemy; according to their belief, according to God's will, the Jewish people should live in dispersion until the coming of the Messiah.
    ... Therefore, we are fundamentally against the state of Israel and Zionism as a political movement, no matter what name it may hide.
    ... we will never accept the presence of Zionists in Israel, since God forbade us to return to Palestine in the form of a people or political power. According to the Bible, and historically, this country does not belong to the Jews. We hope, pray and make every effort to ensure that Jerusalem is freed from the Zionists ... "
    These are smart, old Jews say! Who are you ...
    1. Shahno
      Shahno 3 January 2018 21: 07
      +2
      The Torah says: “And take possession of the earth (we are talking about the Land of Israel) and dwell in it, for I give you this land to possess it” (Bamidbar, Ch. 33, v. 53).

      This is one of the mitzvot ace (commandments), writes Ramban (Rabbi Moshe bin Nahman, the great commentator of the Torah and Talmud; Spain, 13 c.), Commenting on this phrase.

      In his Code of All Jewish Laws, Mishne Torah, the great Rambam (Rabbi Moshe bin Maimon, Spain, end of the 12-beginning of the 13-th centuries) formulates the law: “A Jew must live in Eretz Yisrael” (section Melachim, ch. 5 paragraph 12
      It is commanded to study the Torah, not to blindly obey, but to interpret the laws, having different views ...
    2. alexsipin
      alexsipin 3 January 2018 21: 13
      +2
      Quote: Hurricane70
      Orthodox Jews

      Orthodox Jews have nothing to do with it, ultra-Orthodox
      At one time they put a lot of effort into ensuring that the Jews of Europe did not go to Palestine, since they did not consider Hitler a great threat. Today, most of the ultra-Orthodox Jews of Israel are the descendants of those who still moved and the descendants of Jews from the United States, where there has always been a large ultra-Orthodox community. Thanks to them, most of the Jews in Europe did not resist Hitler, which later made it possible to assert that the Jews went to die like sheep. Here they are, "smart, old Jews." There are no old European Jews among them - everyone burned down.
  17. borys
    borys 3 January 2018 20: 42
    +1
    For alexsipin.
    You asked a good question. In general terms, this is: within the state, legislation in force within that state; on our planet - international
    treaties and all kinds of conventions. In practice, things are a little more complicated -
    most individuals and states do not like to comply with any laws and
    agreement. But at the same time they are offended when they get a rebuff. So the Israelis
    one should not be very indignant at the actions of aggressive Iran and ungrateful Palestinians. As stated in the same Bible: "With what measure you measure, it will be measured to you."
    1. alexsipin
      alexsipin 3 January 2018 21: 06
      +3
      Quote: borys
      So the Israelis
      one should not be very indignant at the actions of aggressive Iran and ungrateful Palestinians.

      Our army is not so much outraged, it just shoots the Islamists quietly.
  18. Maz
    Maz 3 January 2018 21: 24
    +1
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Quote: Shura Perm
    I'm talking about 1949 and the following, ignoramus ... learn the materiel, how your tribesmen terrorists blew up mosques and set up wild terror in the territories of the Arabs ...

    ))))
    In 1948, actually, the Arabs drove the Jews out of East Jerusalem (including the Jewish quarter of the Old City), but could not conquer the West, if you insist on accuracy. The arch of the synagogue of the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, blown up by the Arabs, until recently (reconstruction) was one of the symbols of the city. And about wild terror can I learn more? :)

    It’s possible, as the Israeli brigade was fighting with Egypt, it seized about three dozen Egyptian construction workers, they built a road there, or something else. All were killed and put into the sand with a bulldozer. No people, no problems. The future generals commanded by this brigade, the Minister of Defense, seem to be Mr. Barack. Closer to the 21st century, Israeli archaeologists came to this place. Foolishly unearthed a mass grave. Reporters rushed along, also Israeli, and they had already “unearthed” details, names, positions, titles, performers. There was a wild scandal and it began to shine safely. All the same, the Minister of Defense is involved, a patriot, a democrat, and so on. Do you think the Arabs have forgotten? I doubt it. Everyone there has their own truth.
    1. alexsipin
      alexsipin 3 January 2018 21: 34
      +2
      Quote: Maz
      It’s possible, as the Israeli brigade was fighting with Egypt, it seized about three dozen Egyptian construction workers, they built a road there, or something else. All were killed and put into the sand with a bulldozer. No people, no problems. The future generals commanded by this brigade, the Minister of Defense, seem to be Mr. Barack. Closer to the 21st century, Israeli archaeologists came to this place. Foolishly unearthed a mass grave. Reporters rushed along, also Israeli, and they had already “unearthed” details, names, positions, titles, performers. There was a wild scandal and it began to shine safely. All the same, the Minister of Defense is involved, a patriot, a democrat, and so on. Do you think the Arabs have forgotten? I doubt it. Everyone there has their own truth.

      Russian military kills 443 children and 286 women in Syria - SNHR
      http://newsader.com/20928-rossiyskie-voennye-ubil
      iv-sirii-443-reb /

      Do you think the Arabs forgot?
  19. alexsipin
    alexsipin 3 January 2018 21: 47
    +1
    Quote: cedar
    Quote: Dzungar
    They say that the Messiah is already in the flesh .... And soon he will appear to the world. When a Jewish temple arises on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem ....


    In any case, everything is ready for Zion, but Muslim mosques on the Temple Mount interfere, and time is running out ...
    We see at the root of events in the BV and in the World, dear ...

    What would you not look 2 times, the following video on the topic:
  20. Hottabych
    Hottabych 3 January 2018 22: 05
    0
    Quote: alexsipin
    Most Iranians do not want war and confrontation with Israel.

    But, for some reason, most Israelis) want a confrontation with Iran. Does not run into any thought?
    1. alexsipin
      alexsipin 3 January 2018 22: 14
      +1
      Quote: Hottabych
      But, for some reason, most Israelis) want a confrontation with Iran. ?

      ??
      1. Hottabych
        Hottabych 3 January 2018 23: 05
        0
        This means that the society in Iran is less politicized and poisoned by its government than in Israel.
        1. Strips
          Strips 4 January 2018 07: 59
          +1
          Quote: Hottabych
          This means that the society in Iran is less politicized and poisoned by its government than in Israel.


          Given the events in Iran, the Iranians cannot understand why the head of the Hezbollah terrorists reports from Lebanon - 1500 km from Iran reports that Iran provides them with finances and weapons against the Zionists, while in Iran they constantly raise prices and people just want to live normally , and that the Iranian government does not spend billions on helping terrorists fighting against Israel.
  21. MadCat
    MadCat 4 January 2018 01: 38
    +2
    There will really be no more bidding; Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Arabs with their terror can no longer intimidate anyone. Peace in exchange for peace and nothing else.
  22. Valery56
    Valery56 4 January 2018 07: 33
    0
    Jerusalem is the shrine of many religions ... And not the capital of Israel ... It is like the Vatican in Rome. It cannot belong to Israel. With all due respect to the Israelis and not very respect for Trump ...
    1. Strips
      Strips 4 January 2018 07: 56
      +1
      Quote: Valery56
      But not the capital of Israel ..


      Not for you to decide.

      Quote: Valery56
      Jerusalem is the shrine of many religions.


      It does not interfere. Only when Jerusalem became the capital of Israel did Christians, Arabs, and Jews gain access to their shrines.
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. Shahno
    Shahno 4 January 2018 20: 29
    +1
    A. Privalov,
    It is embarrassing. They do not understand this. They believe that we can spit in the face without an answer. But those days are gone. Therefore, we will give them the first hand.
  25. Larion Luppovich
    Larion Luppovich 4 January 2018 20: 46
    +1
    Dear residents of Israel. Good time of day.
    Please tell me, and, if possible, honestly, how do you feel about Sephardim and Mizrahim? And how do they relate to you? You now have a common state.
    Well, here's another question how to relate to this:
    On Thursday, two articles were published at once about the kinship between different subgroups of Jews - a hotly debated topic for historians, anthropologists and biologists. Research - First Rank, from Nature and the American Journal of Human Genetics; among the authors are the first few stars in this field. A breakthrough happened both in the research method and in the results. For the first time, the complete genomes of representatives of well-known subgroups of Jews were examined - light-skinned ashkenazes of Europe and the USA, olive Sephardic Greece, Turkey and Syria, dark-faced mizrahs of Iran and Iraq, as well as Ethiopian and Indian Jews.
    .......
    Having drawn a picture of the kinship between different groups of Jews, the authors talk about their neighbors in the ethnographic landscape. As was commonly believed, the closest "relatives" of the Jews are Bedouins, Druze, the Palestinians.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/nature09103
    http://www.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0002-9297%2810
    2900246-6%
    Like to fight with the next of kin? Or do you simply don’t like your kind in principle?
    1. Shahno
      Shahno 4 January 2018 20: 51
      +1
      I do not know Bedouins thieves by nature. Sephardim? He worked with many. Smart people. Druze are very faithful to the principles.
      1. Larion Luppovich
        Larion Luppovich 4 January 2018 20: 55
        +1
        Thanks for the answer. What about the Palestinians?
        1. Shahno
          Shahno 4 January 2018 20: 57
          +1
          And the Palestinians. They have yet to understand that we are one people.
    2. alexsipin
      alexsipin 4 January 2018 23: 21
      +1
      Quote: Larion Luppovich
      Like to fight with the next of kin? Or do you simply don’t like your kind in principle?

      Are you talking about Ukrainians?
  26. Larion Luppovich
    Larion Luppovich 4 January 2018 21: 00
    +1
    I will explain. According to studies, the separation occurred approximately 2700 years ago. So you, it turns out, are fighting with relatives for common property and attracting international gangs to family disassemblies?
    1. alexsipin
      alexsipin 4 January 2018 23: 31
      +1
      Quote: Larion Luppovich
      I will explain. According to studies, the separation occurred approximately 2700 years ago. So you, it turns out, are fighting with relatives for common property and attracting international gangs to family disassemblies?

      You do not mind that 2700 years ago there was no division into Slavic and Germanic peoples. Doesn’t it bother you in the light of this WWII? How could you deal with relatives?