Military Review

Defense Ministry presented an experienced protected vehicle for the Airborne Forces

151
On the Online The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has a photo of an experienced Typhoon-Airborne protected armored car developed for the Airborne Forces.




"Over the past years, the Airborne Troops Command, together with industrial enterprises, has been working together to develop common approaches to the creation of promising protected special-purpose vehicles with combat modules on a wheeled chassis," the release said.

Currently, the development of small arms, as the main impact on automotive vehicles, requires increased protection of personnel during transport,
quoted by the press service of the head of the department of logistics of the Airborne Forces Colonel Nikolai Anokhin.

The machine was created on a wheeled chassis based on the Typhoon armored car. Currently, it is being tested at special sites and landfills.

It is reported that "the main advantage of the car, along with the protection of personnel and the equipment of a modern armament complex, will be its ability to parachute parachute way."

According to the ministry, the mass production of such machines for the Airborne Forces is scheduled to begin in the 2019 year after the entire test and inspection cycle.
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
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  1. aszzz888
    aszzz888 3 January 2018 09: 20
    +2
    ... Typhoon got it .... but the glass in place - survived ...
    1. Tusk
      Tusk 3 January 2018 09: 24
      +4
      Well, if it drops, then the thing is very necessary for the mobility of our troops ..
      Now who will be the first to manage, either press the button or send saboteurs .. Outwardly, it looks good!
      1. verner1967
        verner1967 3 January 2018 09: 27
        +4
        Quote: Tusk
        Outwardly, it looks good!

        yes there is a prettier one, but that’s not the point, tea is not exhibited at an international motor show laughing
        1. Tusk
          Tusk 3 January 2018 09: 43
          +3
          Quote: verner1967
          yes there is a prettier one, but that’s not the point, tea is not exhibited at an international motor show

          Appearance should be aggressive, remember Crimea, how our "Tigers" looked solid !!! Two pieces drove in the military unit and not one leaned out of the APU ..))))
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 3 January 2018 10: 15
            +2
            Quote: Tusk
            Appearance must be aggressive

            this will not interfere with the police armored car, and in the optical sight of some kind of "bassoon" at a distance of 1-1,5 km it is not so scary. What gave this look to the works of the Ukrainian defense industry, if they burst at the seams.
          2. Lex.
            Lex. 3 January 2018 10: 41
            +1
            And why does the tiger not suit its cars for the Russian Guard for airborne vehicles?
            1. ProkletyiPirat
              ProkletyiPirat 3 January 2018 11: 04
              0
              declared large mine protection
              1. bulvas
                bulvas 3 January 2018 11: 58
                0

                Quote: Lex.
                And why does the tiger not suit its cars for the Russian Guard for airborne vehicles?



                It is reported that "the main advantage of the car, along with the security of personnel and equipment with modern weapons, will become his ability to parachute parachute»
                1. ProkletyiPirat
                  ProkletyiPirat 3 January 2018 16: 03
                  +2
                  Quote: bulvas
                  will be his ability to land in a parachute manner "

                  that is, according to your airborne forces, airborne shishigi and bmd can’t drop a “tiger” and therefore spend a lot of money on a new “own” car? hi
                  1. bulvas
                    bulvas 3 January 2018 16: 34
                    +1
                    Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                    that is, in your opinion ...


                    - says the release

                    [on the website of the Ministry of Defense]
                2. Lex.
                  Lex. 3 January 2018 17: 02
                  0
                  Enough of a tiger, so many different cars, different parts
          3. Nick
            Nick 3 January 2018 13: 47
            0
            Quote: Tusk
            Appearance should be aggressive, remember Crimea, how our "Tigers" looked solid !!! Two pieces drove in the military unit and not one leaned out of the APU

            Such a mass of armor on wheels in any case looks solid.
            1. ProkletyiPirat
              ProkletyiPirat 3 January 2018 16: 09
              0
              Quote: Nick
              Such a mass of armor on wheels in any case looks solid.

              especially sitting on his belly in a puddle by the road. laughing
              1. Nick
                Nick 3 January 2018 19: 29
                0
                Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                Quote: Nick
                Such a mass of armor on wheels in any case looks solid.

                especially sitting on his belly in a puddle by the road. laughing

                Watch the clearance. In general, you can plant a tank and armored personnel carrier tightly. There are talents. so Typhoon, ka and other equipment are no exception. As one acquaintance of mine, a great hunter of the female sex, said, "You can break a dope with a fool ..."
                Good luck hi
                1. ProkletyiPirat
                  ProkletyiPirat 3 January 2018 20: 11
                  0
                  So no one argues that in "skillful" hands and a microscope = sledgehammer. But this does not change the essence of the reduced cross-country ability. hi
                  1. Nick
                    Nick 3 January 2018 22: 55
                    +1
                    Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                    So no one argues that in "skillful" hands and a microscope = sledgehammer. But this does not change the essence of the reduced cross-country ability. hi

                    In what sense is a reduced cross? I think my Zhiguli patency will be lower. And in general, on horseradish goat button accordion? Each development of weapons and military equipment is intended to solve a specific range of problems. A helicopter, for example, must travel through the air. The armored car Typhoon, must move quickly on the highway, and a country road. What he successfully does, and Typhoon also protects the crew well from mines, fragments, and small arms. This is his range of tasks. To demand from Typhoon the patency of the swamp or the lifting force of the Mi 26 in order to overcome deep off-road is nonsense.
                    1. ProkletyiPirat
                      ProkletyiPirat 4 January 2018 01: 03
                      +1
                      Quote: Nick
                      Each development of weapons and military equipment is intended to solve a specific range of tasks.

                      What's the truth? I’m stupid, I didn’t know the common truths, thanks for the science of the great guru! lol
                      Quote: Nick
                      This is his range of tasks.

                      This is not "his circle of tasks" but your fantasies and thirst and ravings! The simplest example, I would even say a textbook. We threw the Airborne Forces, the enemy found out about them and sent forces to eliminate the landing. What will these forces do? There is no war and no shouting “cheers” at the Airborne Forces. They will begin to organize roadblocks at key points. And these are intersections, roads, bridges and crossings of water barriers. And so, here you are, our brave airborne troops and you have a checkpoint in front of you, after which, after N km, there is a target that needs to be destroyed or at least damaged and not allowed to work. You have a choice whether to take caterpillar equipment that has high cross-country ability and the ability to swim, so you can bypass the checkpoint and attack the target with powerful weapons while not getting close to the target, or take a miracle wunderwafle called "Typhoon Airborne "and first go to fight for the checkpoint, and in addition to fight with a minimum of weapons, and then with the same missing weapons, with cut-off personnel (dropped out during the assault of the checkpoint) with a cut-down equipment (dropped out during the assault of the checkpoint), you have to fight with superior well-armed forces, which in addition had time to prepare and dig in while you stormed the checkpoint. Oh yes, I forgot to say the checkpoint is not one of many. and the loss of your resources occurs at every roadblock. so? What kind of equipment will our brave Airborne Trooper "Nick" choose?. Well, of course, a pontoon and modern typhoon wheeled clunker with the sticker "Airborne!" lol
                      1. poquello
                        poquello 4 January 2018 02: 44
                        +2
                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        This is not "his circle of tasks" but your fantasies and thirst and ravings! The simplest example, I would even say a textbook. We threw the Airborne Forces, the enemy found out about them and sent forces to eliminate the landing. What will these forces do? There is no war and no shouting “cheers” at the Airborne Forces. They will begin to organize roadblocks at key points.

                        fantasies, fantasies, and they don’t have time to organize roadblocks, he’s a fast reconnaissance officer - he’s also a point, he really doesn’t need cars, they will take strangers))
                      2. Nick
                        Nick 4 January 2018 05: 03
                        0
                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        The simplest example, I would even say a textbook. We threw the Airborne Forces, the enemy found out about them and sent forces to eliminate the landing. What will these forces do? There is no war and no shouting “cheers” at the Airborne Forces. They will begin to organize roadblocks at key points. And these are intersections, roads, bridges and crossings of water barriers. And so, here you are, our brave airborne troops and you have a block post in front of you, after him there is a target after N km

                        Do not smack nonsense. The structure of the airborne division includes not only Typhoons, but also other armored vehicles. Depending on the tasks to be solved, the command will choose the optimal outfit of forces to solve them. This is the first. And secondly, questions arise: How long will the enemy take to organize roadblocks? And where to get the enemy in their rear forces to confront the Airborne Division? Is there a front to bare? Well, yes, of course, you can remove a couple of divisions from the front. Only this maneuver will take at least a week. By that time, the Landing, will solve its problem, given its high mobility, in connection with the use of the same Typhoons. By the way, on the Typhoons installed 30 mm automatic gun, and PKTM caliber 7,62 mm. Firepower will be more than that of the 80 armored personnel carrier, and armor protection is much better.
                      3. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 4 January 2018 17: 09
                        0
                        Quote: poquello
                        reconnaissance, he is fast - Ryaz and at the point

                        But is reconnaissance and airborne are one and the same? fool
                      4. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 4 January 2018 17: 30
                        0
                        Quote: Nick
                        The structure of the airborne division includes not only Typhoons, but also other armored vehicles.

                        Ehhh, how is it all going smoothly on paper. But in reality, the number of BTAs is limited, the size and mass of the transported units is limited. And then attention, you suggest instead of BMD \ octopus \ non to throw a typhoon, I previously described to you what this will lead to, now you offer one more "innovation" instead of several shishig (or their analogues) to throw one typhoon, you have the rest of the paratroopers on foot will be? And will they also drag the loads on themselves? and will they swim across rivers? And the cargo will be carried by swimming? and even in winter?
                        There are of course their own nuances with different aircraft, with modernized versions of old aircraft, and much more, but again, it all comes down to cross, buoyancy and the presence of weapons or cargo capacity.
      2. 210ox
        210ox 3 January 2018 09: 40
        +1
        The rule of the first strike? Or from the first to a knockout, or to run?
        Quote: Tusk
        Well, if it drops, then the thing is very necessary for the mobility of our troops ..
        Now who will be the first to manage, either press the button or send saboteurs .. Outwardly, it looks good!
        1. Tusk
          Tusk 3 January 2018 10: 31
          0
          Quote: 210ox
          The rule of the first strike? Or from the first to a knockout, or to run?

          How to get it, but we have somewhere to run, if that .. The country is big! soldier )))
          1. Nick
            Nick 3 January 2018 19: 42
            0
            Quote: Tusk
            Quote: 210ox
            The rule of the first strike? Or from the first to a knockout, or to run?

            How to get it, but we have somewhere to run, if that .. The country is big! soldier )))

            The country is big, but the Earth is round, spherical we understand ...
  2. verner1967
    verner1967 3 January 2018 09: 21
    0
    and on top is a combat module simulator?
    1. aszzz888
      aszzz888 3 January 2018 09: 24
      +3
      ... campaign - yes ... and the weight is adjusted to the intended ...
  3. cannabis
    cannabis 3 January 2018 09: 51
    +4
    Airborne troops are troops "from the sky - into battle." Well, let's say a battalion was sent "from heaven to battle". How many 15 tons of "Typhoons" are in it? How many transport aircraft do you need to deliver these Typhoons? And where will the airborne troops go along enemy rear lines along mined (why?) Rear roads, while they will need to carry out a combat mission to destroy the enemy and objects? The picture does not stack. More ... How many hours can a battalion fight in the rear? And is it worth it in this case to "throw" so many expensive "armor plates" behind enemy lines?
    1. polpot
      polpot 3 January 2018 09: 55
      +1
      You are probably right the landing parties do not live long
      1. cannabis
        cannabis 3 January 2018 10: 06
        +1
        I have not been able to find the answer to the question for a long time: WHY do they choose the strongest, most daring, most trained men of the nation, give them light weapons and throw them to the rear of the enemy? Take for example the division of Rodimtsev. This is the former landing (3 corps), and came to Stalingrad. to Chuikov, who regretted her weak armament. There is an opinion that the commando missions succeed, but there are no paratroopers, in view of the enormous losses. So I do not find the answer to the question "WHY".
        1. verner1967
          verner1967 3 January 2018 10: 18
          +1
          Quote: cunning
          and throw to the enemy rear for slaughter?

          if the operation is well thought-out, and l / s is prepared, then this is not for slaughter, although the risk is increased. But near Vyazma, the troops were thrown for slaughter, unfortunately.
          1. Town Hall
            Town Hall 3 January 2018 10: 23
            +1
            Quote: verner1967
            if the operation is well thought-out, and l / s is prepared, then this is not for slaughter, although the risk is increased. But near Vyazma, the troops were thrown for slaughter, unfortunately.



            Well, give examples of non-“slaughter” operations known to you for 80 years. Otherwise the chain of “accidents” is a regularity
            1. verner1967
              verner1967 3 January 2018 10: 48
              +1
              Quote: Town Hall
              examples of non-killer operations

              Well, oddly enough, the Germans did not get the first pancake lumpy, the beginning of the second world airborne assault in Belgium, Denmark, Norway, a little worse in Holland. British landing in D-Day on the bridges on the Kahn canals and the Orne River. Despite the German counterattacks, by the end of the first day of landing all the tasks of this operation were completed. And the Americans at the same time lost only 2500 in a week of fighting in the rear of the Germans.
              1. Town Hall
                Town Hall 3 January 2018 11: 11
                0
                Quote: verner1967
                Well, oddly enough, the Germans did not get the first pancake lumpy, the beginning of the second world airborne assault in Belgium, Denmark, Norway, a little worse in Holland. British landing in D-Day on the bridges on the Kahn canals and the Orne River.



                Operations using the Airborne Forces had at least some success relative only when local sabotage tasks were set. The bridge (fort) there to capture (destroy) in the immediate vicinity of the front line. And only with the overwhelming superiority of their aircraft. Such short-term local sabotage and reconnaissance activities of a local nature company-battalion level.


                When large-scale operations were attempted to be carried out — the USSR near Vyazma in the winter of 41–42, on the Dnieper in 43, the allies in 44 (the market garden) –– there were always enchanting defeats.

                Crete is a little apart. It seems to be taken. But for some reason after that the Germans did not even try anymore. The losses were catastrophic.


                So the creation of monsters in the form of brigades / divisions / airborne corps, Voto parachutes is all-money down the road. 99,99% of all these airborne troops were used and are used as ordinary linear infantry. With very low efficiency. For not trained and not armed for this
                1. verner1967
                  verner1967 3 January 2018 11: 28
                  0
                  Quote: Town Hall
                  So the creation of monsters in the form of brigades / divisions / airborne corps, Voto parachutes is all-money down the road. 99,99% of all these airborne troops were used and are used as ordinary linear infantry. With very low efficiency. For not trained and not armed for this
                  I agree with this, but the landing in D-Day does not fit into the case
                  Quote: Town Hall
                  always enchanting defeats.
                  1. Town Hall
                    Town Hall 3 January 2018 11: 38
                    0
                    Quote: verner1967
                    I agree with this, but the landing in D-Day does not fit into the case




                    The results of that landing are at least ambiguous.


                    13.100 paratroopers


                    Losses

                    1.003 killed
                    2.657 captives
                    4.490 missing - only paratroopers


                    70% of losses are a rout and a catastrophe in fact. And this is without the wounded
                    1. verner1967
                      verner1967 3 January 2018 11: 56
                      0
                      Quote: Town Hall
                      13.100 paratroopers

                      during Operation Overlord in June 1944, the 82nd and 101st airborne divisions of the United States landed in the first echelon about 10 thousand paratroopers, who captured airfields and areas convenient for landing transport aircraft and gliders. The second air echelon (924 Douglas S-47 transport aircraft and 103 S24-A gliders) delivered about 6 thousand paratroopers, 7 artillery pieces, 1944 to the airdromes and terrain areas convenient for landing, captured by the first echelon, on June 35 and 504, 110 light tanks and about 1000 tons of cargo, which allowed us to successfully complete the tasks.
                      there were much more. And if 70% of the losses, then who fought then?
                      1. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 3 January 2018 12: 14
                        0
                        Quote: verner1967
                        about 35 thousand paratroopers captured by the first echelon, convenient for landing, airfields and terrain




                        Check these numbers from other sources ...


                        Quote: verner1967
                        And if 70% of the losses, then who fought then?



                        Mostly the surviving paratroopers fought after June 6, together with the infantry divisions.


                        By the way, the main goal of the operation, assistance in the quick capture of Cherbourg, was never fulfilled
                      2. cannabis
                        cannabis 3 January 2018 14: 13
                        0
                        In my opinion, German generals “had a hand in the hands” of a successful landing in Normandy. Judging by the memoirs of Hans von Luke, the regiment commanders were ordered not to succumb to provocations and they made a report about the start of landing to Hitler half a day late and he didn’t believe it. The situation repeated on June 22, 41, on our border. Perhaps Rommel's coercion to suicide was a punishment for this conspiracy with the Americans. I repeat once more - this is my personal opinion.
                2. Uralean
                  Uralean 3 January 2018 11: 58
                  +1
                  I disagree .. The raids of the Kavpak corps on the deep rear of the Germans, with light weapons torn from their bases, against the regular units of the Wehrmacht, showed both great effectiveness and survivability .. Bound forces on themselves, destroyed the enemy. We identified weaknesses, helped the main units of the Red Army conduct combat operations on the main fronts .. In addition to Kavpak, Medvedev’s partisan detachments and others can also be considered as amphibious assault forces (in terms of the similarity of tasks and methods of waging the battle). in front of the airborne troops, and the main motorized rifle troops .. They have different goals, objectives, weapons, and conditions for maintaining the database .. But everyone has to fulfill their part in the general structures of the troops.)
                  1. cannabis
                    cannabis 3 January 2018 14: 17
                    0
                    You do not argue with me, I just quoted the opinion of Colonel Starinov.
                  2. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 3 January 2018 19: 26
                    0
                    I do not agree with you either. Medvedev landed secretly, and in small groups. Well, no, do not confuse the landing with a sabotage squad, which has gradually grown. And if you recall the landing in the battle for the Dnieper? Complete failure.
                3. Nick
                  Nick 3 January 2018 14: 13
                  0
                  Town Hall, you are so advanced, and why not Commander-in-Chief of the Airborne Forces?
              2. MOSKVITYANIN
                MOSKVITYANIN 3 January 2018 11: 47
                0
                verner1967 British landing in D-Day on the bridges on the Kahn canals and the Orne River. Despite the German counterattacks, by the end of the first day of landing all the tasks of this operation were completed. And the Americans at the same time lost only 2500 for a week of fighting in the rear of the Germans.

                The landing operation "Market Garden" ("Garden") is more interesting for me, on the contrary, the British were lucky as drowned men, https://topwar.ru/7001-operaciya-market-garden.ht
                ml
                there is even a movie ....
                I agree with the author of one of the books that the Wehrmacht lost all its airborne forces during the Cretan operation and could not already recreate them in the form in which they were previously until the very end of WWII ....
                1. Town Hall
                  Town Hall 3 January 2018 12: 20
                  0
                  Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                  I agree with the author of one of the books that the Wehrmacht lost all its airborne forces during the Cretan operation and could not already recreate them in the form in which they were previously until the very end of WWII ....




                  And they didn’t try. Crete quickly opened the eyes of the Germans to the uselessness of large airborne formations
                  1. MOSKVITYANIN
                    MOSKVITYANIN 3 January 2018 12: 24
                    +1
                    Quote: Town Hall
                    And they didn’t try. Crete quickly opened the eyes of the Germans to the uselessness of large airborne formations

                    Thanks to the Airborne, they captured Crete ....
                    1. Town Hall
                      Town Hall 3 January 2018 12: 36
                      0
                      Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                      Thanks to the Airborne Forces, they captured Crete ..



                      In addition to the Airborne Forces, infantry and mountain rifle divisions participated in the capture of Crete.

                      An analysis of the fighting and casualties after Crete and "opened" the eyes of the Germans.


                      After that, they did not create large airborne formations (divisions, corps), but retained only small highly specialized units for special operations. And they tried to parachute more without landing.
                      1. MOSKVITYANIN
                        MOSKVITYANIN 3 January 2018 14: 05
                        0
                        Town Hall In addition to the Airborne Forces, infantry and mountain rifle divisions participated in the capture of Crete.

                        For the first time I hear about PD, in addition, (this is not in the link, but it can be verified), the Wehrmacht GPD contained parachute units ...
                        To capture Crete, the German command allocated the 7 th parachute and 5 th mountain rifle divisions. In addition to these main parts, part of the landing also included part of the gain. The Germans planned to parachute the parachute division with parachutes, and the mountain rifle division - with gliders and transport aircraft.

                        https://topwar.ru/16261-srazhenie-za-krit-kak-pir
                        rova-pobeda-germanskih-vdv.html
                        The rest are right and my link confirms this, although
                        The reason for such “modesty” of the German Airborne Forces, it turns out, was the personal order of the Führer, which prohibited the use of German airborne troops in special large-scale amphibious operations, this order was based on the operation to capture Fr. Crete, conducted by the German Air Force and Airborne in May 1941.

                        see there
                        can be considered in different ways, with the successful development of events on the eastern front (the implementation of the initial stage of the war: access to the Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan line and the entry of Turkey and Japan into the war), it was possible to use the Airborne Forces, moreover, after the capture of the Caucasus, Hitler was going to move to Iran and India ....
                      2. avt
                        avt 3 January 2018 16: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        In addition to the Airborne Forces, infantry and mountain rifle divisions participated in the capture of Crete.
                        An analysis of the fighting and casualties after Crete and "opened" the eyes of the Germans.

                        In addition to the students of Student, you won’t believe there was transport aircraft there, and even combat aircraft.
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        After that, they did not create large airborne formations (divisions, corps)

                        Yes?
                        German Göring Parachute Tank Grenadier Division
                        bully Toka here ba-yada-a! Transport aviation near Stalingrad lay down for the most part, and air supremacy, for parachuting and gliding, could only afford USs with English only after 1944, and then when disassembling Chaffee, it seems, well, the tower is separate in another an airplane, or a glider.
        2. Genry
          Genry 3 January 2018 11: 05
          +1
          Quote: cunning
          WHY do they choose the strongest, most daring, most trained men of the nation, give them light weapons and throw them to the rear of the enemy?

          You, apparently, as a child did not watch the film "In the Special Attention Zone", although it is never too late.
          1. cannabis
            cannabis 3 January 2018 13: 53
            0
            When the film In the Special Attention Zone was released, I already commanded a company. It just so happened.
        3. Izotovp
          Izotovp 3 January 2018 13: 32
          +1
          The landing is designed to capture bridgeheads and key points of the terrain, so it must have a high speed of movement. It is impossible to quickly transfer heavy weapons, so the landing is equipped with lighter weapons. And in order to fulfill the task of capturing objects and bridgeheads defended by an enemy equipped with heavier weapons, it is necessary to compensate for this difference due to the quality of personnel.
          No offense will be told to the landing, but well-trained infantrymen can also give odds to the landing on tactics of combined arms combat.
          1. MOSKVITYANIN
            MOSKVITYANIN 4 January 2018 01: 36
            0
            Izotovp No offense will be told to the landing, but well-trained infantrymen can also give odds to the landing on tactics of combined arms combat.

            You mean, apparently, by the quality of organization of any main type of combined arms combat, well, motorized riflemen have more firepower than paratroopers (and any other light infantry unit), are more stable in defense, etc. etc.
            However, due to the fact that the tasks and goals of the motorized infantry and paratroopers are different, respectively, their forces and means differ ....
    2. Town Hall
      Town Hall 3 January 2018 10: 06
      +1
      Quote: cunning
      Airborne troops are troops "from the sky - into battle."


      And how many such “from heaven-to-battle” were during the 80 years of the existence of the Airborne Forces? ... after several devastating attempts in the Second World War?
      1. cannabis
        cannabis 3 January 2018 10: 37
        +1
        Apparently "gigantomania" is a kind of disease. Colonel Starinov gave examples of the unsuccessful use of partisan formations where 2-3 sabotage groups of 2-3 people could successfully operate. Politicians were apparently infected by the bankers and the trading idea of ​​quickly achieving political goals through massive investment, not capital, but human effort. The entire 20th century, and now politics is likened to a plant grower, who, instead of carefully growing, pulls the stems up
      2. Tusk
        Tusk 3 January 2018 10: 49
        +1
        Quote: Town Hall
        And how many such “from heaven-to-battle” were during the 80 years of the existence of the Airborne Forces? ... after several devastating attempts in the Second World War?

        In Syria, for example .. A brilliant operation!
        1. MOSKVITYANIN
          MOSKVITYANIN 4 January 2018 01: 37
          0
          Quote: Tusk
          Quote: Town Hall
          And how many such “from heaven-to-battle” were during the 80 years of the existence of the Airborne Forces? ... after several devastating attempts in the Second World War?

          In Syria, for example.. A brilliant operation!

          For more details, can I?
      3. Nick
        Nick 3 January 2018 14: 19
        0
        Quote: Town Hall
        And how many such “from heaven-to-battle” were during the 80 years of the existence of the Airborne Forces? ... after several devastating attempts in the Second World War?

        Do not equal the landing of the forties and modern airborne. The former were armed only with light weapons, and now they have artillery and armored vehicles and air support ...
        1. Town Hall
          Town Hall 3 January 2018 14: 57
          +1
          Quote: Nick
          Do not equal the landing of the forties and modern airborne. The former were armed only with light weapons, and now they have artillery and armored vehicles and air support.




          But the enemy doesn’t have air defense systems seeing these huge Il-76s for hundreds of kilometers and shooting them down as partridges? Or the same MANPADS for everyone in a row when the planes drop for landing or landing. Look at what happened to the Ukrainian Air Force when they tried to supply their troops with air
          1. poquello
            poquello 3 January 2018 16: 37
            +2
            Quote: Town Hall
            But the enemy does not have air defense systems seeing these huge Il-76s over hundreds of kilometers and shooting them down like partridges ?.

            crush SAM and MANPADS
            1. Izotovp
              Izotovp 3 January 2018 19: 18
              +2
              Now there is an evolution of ATGMs into a universal missile system with the ability to fire at air targets. After the Second World War, the gunshot jumped 4, as far as I remember, and in modern times, parachute landing is considered as an emergency way. The main thing is disembarkation in a landing way to previously captured suitable landing sites. Landing of advanced forces-RDG and reconnaissance can, among other things, be a parachute method. Including, but not as the only one. Therefore, to have a wheeled protected equipment that can quickly and relatively safely transfer personnel is, of course, necessary.
              Those who are proposing to save money and go into a modern battle with the BTR-80 or other similar equipment ... look into the eyes of veterans of Chechnya or Afghanistan ... and don’t tell this aloud to them ...
              And about once or twice, and put a v-shaped bottom on any equipment, and even tank armor, so that it flew under 100 and on any terrain and on one tank to the English Channel ... not everything is simple .. believe me first, but then read smart engineering books ...
              I didn’t want to offend anyone.
              Sincerely.
              1. poquello
                poquello 3 January 2018 22: 44
                +1
                Quote: Izotovp
                go into a modern battle on the btr-80

                but also not true, BTR82a are needed and they have their own tasks
                1. Izotovp
                  Izotovp 4 January 2018 01: 27
                  0
                  This platform is already outdated to Afghanistan and it should be replaced by the next generation, which we now see only at landfills and parades. Judging by the number of losses, it no longer met modern requirements in Chechnya. This can be evidenced by a large number of improvised improvements in the field of booking various equipment and strengthening weapons, which made the equipment heavier and complicated the management of weapons.
                  1. poquello
                    poquello 4 January 2018 02: 32
                    +1
                    Quote: Izotovp
                    This platform is already outdated to Afghanistan and it should be replaced by the next generation, which we now see only at landfills and parades. Judging by the number of losses, it no longer met modern requirements in Chechnya. This can be evidenced by a large number of improvised improvements in the field of booking various equipment and strengthening weapons, which made the equipment heavier and complicated the management of weapons.

                    in how, but in MO they don’t even know))), you know that for example it’s more difficult to hide a tall car because it’s deeper to dig in? or what for between the two axles still wheels? Well, as if the mine indicator is not the whole machine, so they are different for different tasks
                    1. Izotovp
                      Izotovp 4 January 2018 09: 48
                      +1
                      Do you think that the next generation of armored personnel carriers is Typhoon ?! Actually, the Boomerang is going to replace the BTR-80 platform. And to replace the BMP and BMD-Kurganets and heavy armored infantry fighting vehicles
                      1. poquello
                        poquello 4 January 2018 17: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Izotovp
                        Do you think that the next generation of armored personnel carriers is Typhoon ?! Actually, the Boomerang is going to replace the BTR-80 platform. And to replace the BMP and BMD-Kurganets and heavy armored infantry fighting vehicles

                        I think Typhoon is not an armored troop-carrier, but what more will go to the MO
                    2. ProkletyiPirat
                      ProkletyiPirat 4 January 2018 17: 39
                      +1
                      Quote: poquello
                      Do you know that it’s more difficult to hide a tall car, for example, to dig deeper?

                      If you dig in a car, then absolutely do not care what height it is, there plus / minus the time to dig in will not play a big role.
                      But when moving in a theater "forest + fields + bushes + tall grass" A lower car will have an advantage in camouflage. But again, this is not always necessary, it does not always help, and sometimes even harms.
                      1. poquello
                        poquello 4 January 2018 17: 45
                        +1
                        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                        not always helps, and sometimes even harms.

                        here, and so it can be said about everything and all qualities, so different cars for different tasks
                      2. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 4 January 2018 18: 24
                        0
                        Quote: poquello
                        therefore different machines for different tasks

                        In this I agree, but you always need to remember about Occam's razor:
                        Do not multiply things unnecessarily
                        Unfortunately, they always forget about this in the specialization \ multifunctionality ... Also, they constantly forget that the shortcomings can be compensated by other elements as well as features of practical application.
          2. Nick
            Nick 3 January 2018 19: 23
            +2
            Quote: Town Hall
            But the enemy does not have air defense systems seeing these huge IL-76 for hundreds of kilometers and shooting down them as partridges?

            Namely, that no one has yet complete protection of the territory by the air defense system. I’ll tell you a little secret. In the 80's, I served at an interesting facility located in the northern regions of the European part of the USSR. So NATO reconnaissance planes sometimes flew over our objects at an altitude of about 100 meters, rarely, but it happened. And this despite the fact that before the state. border in a straight line was more than 200 km. It should be noted that the USSR air defense system was then perhaps the most powerful in the world, and the Stealth technologies did not exist yet.
      4. poquello
        poquello 3 January 2018 16: 40
        +3
        Quote: Town Hall
        Quote: cunning
        Airborne troops are troops "from the sky - into battle."


        And how many such “from heaven-to-battle” were during the 80 years of the existence of the Airborne Forces? ... after several devastating attempts in the Second World War?

        normal, normal, two adversaries of the Airborne Forces gathered, one issued its own definition of an Airborne Forces, and the second the uselessness of such troops.
        Yapadstol
    3. Tusv
      Tusv 3 January 2018 12: 10
      +3
      Quote: cunning
      Airborne troops are troops "from the sky - into battle." Well, let's say a battalion was sent "from heaven to battle". How many 15 tons of "Typhoons" are in it?

      If you think strategically, then not a single one, the Battalion provides reinforcement and rear, for the further accumulation of forces, and here Typhoons will deliver reinforcements and ammunition to you hi
      Remember Prague -68? There, finally, a small group captured the airfield, and then it began that the Czechs still tremble
      1. Tusk
        Tusk 3 January 2018 14: 02
        +4
        Quote: Tusv
        Remember Prague -68? There, finally, a small group captured the airfield, and then it began that the Czechs still tremble

        That's right ..! It all starts with small sabotage groups ..And then the wave went to the ready bridgehead ..! soldier This has all been worked out for a long time .. (in Syria, for example ..!)
        We can take Washington, but everything is different there (there are buttons))))
      2. cannabis
        cannabis 3 January 2018 19: 18
        +1
        The battalion has no relation to strategy. This is pure tactics. Landing forces, it’s like a shot put, but the more massive, the more they throw it. If the battalion was airborne to the rear of the adversary, what ammunition from the rear will the Typhoons carry? Enemies around! And there are enough minefields in the rear, do not hesitate. During the landing in Normandy, the British and American gliders landed in the rear in the minefields established by the Germans just to defend against the landing. Now about 1968 and Czechoslovakia. Before entering the troops, each airborne officer assigned to the landing party was a tourist in advance in Czechoslovakia and was photographed against the background of the attacked object. Just like the Germans did in 1939, sending reconnaissance officers to France, Poland, Austria, and Czechoslovakia on "tours". This is generally the basics of military craft.
        1. Tusv
          Tusv 3 January 2018 19: 27
          +1
          Quote: cunning
          If the battalion was landed in the rear to the adversary, then what ammunition from the rear will the Typhoons carry? Enemies around!

          The fig is gray when the film was just shot. I didn’t even entrust the protection of the stationary air defense division to you, we can handle it ourselves, in accordance with the charter of a separate unit hi
          1. cannabis
            cannabis 3 January 2018 19: 37
            0
            I would not even trust you to stoke the stove in my tent.
            1. Tusv
              Tusv 3 January 2018 19: 56
              +1
              Quote: cunning
              I would not even trust you to stoke the stove in my tent.

              It’s my business to drive flies away from any tents, so as not to accidentally push on epaulettes. Other specially trained people should handle the source. hi
              By the way, with the air defense of the Desantura is not so simple. What I'm sorry about. Can cover the bourgeoisie
    4. Nick
      Nick 3 January 2018 14: 03
      +2
      Quote: cunning
      Airborne troops are troops "from the sky - into battle." Well, let's say a battalion was sent "from heaven to battle".

      Even in the USSR, a division could be landed.
      Quote: cunning
      And where will the Airborne Troops go behind enemy lines along mined (why?) Rear roads, while they will need to carry out a combat mission to destroy the enemy and targets?

      You too narrowly imagine the tasks being solved by the Airborne Forces. Their tactics and methods of use. In addition, in their own rear roads are not mined, otherwise it is impossible to maneuver your own army and secure logistics. They only mine approaches to particularly important objects in their immediate vicinity. In addition, for a long time there have already been means and methods of demining, creating passages in minefields.
      Quote: cunning
      More ... How many hours can a battalion fight in the rear? And is it worth it in this case to "throw" so many expensive "armor plates" behind enemy lines?

      I think the ability to fight is calculated so as to hold out until the approach of the main forces. Or to solve a different combat mission. I suppose that not one i-iot will think of sending an outfit of forces just like that, to perdition.
      1. cannabis
        cannabis 3 January 2018 19: 07
        0
        Nick, why are you trying to judge something that you have no idea about? You are not a military specialist. And yet .... when you read the text, take your time, comprehend the meaning of what you read. I will give you some terms for the general concept. "Concentration area, loading area, pace of attack, span, difference line, capture group landing area. Covering the landing area, suppression of air defense systems on the route of flight and in the area of ​​disembarkation, the area of ​​collection. "This is only part of what is visible, like an iceberg.
        1. Nick
          Nick 3 January 2018 19: 32
          +2
          Quote: cunning
          Nick, why are you trying to judge something that you have no idea about? You are not a military specialist.

          Well, apparently, you are also not Kutuzov, and the terms from the wiki are not available to you alone.
          1. cannabis
            cannabis 3 January 2018 20: 09
            0
            If you are on a short foot with Vinkinpendia, then find out from her what the military specialty code of the VUS 021000 means. This is my diploma specialty.
            1. Nick
              Nick 3 January 2018 22: 34
              +3
              Quote: cunning
              If you are on a short foot with Vinkinpendia, then find out from her what the military specialty code of the VUS 021000 means. This is my diploma specialty.

              Yes, I spit on your diploma. The nonsense that the certified, that is not the certified, all the same nonsense will remain. Alas...
            2. MOSKVITYANIN
              MOSKVITYANIN 4 January 2018 00: 50
              +1
              Quote: cunning
              If you are on a short foot with Vinkinpendia, then find out from her what the military specialty code of the VUS 021000 means. This is my diploma specialty.

              Yes, wise guy with the Academy of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, I hurried, gee ...
              Commander of a motorized rifle platoon or Combat use of motorized rifle divisions, units and formations

              http://dosaaf34-nik.ru/mestnoe_otdelenie/sobyitiy
              a3 / stati /? t = 82 & i = 206
    5. PiP
      PiP 3 January 2018 21: 51
      +2
      I can’t understand. You are smart people. Now remember what happened and how it happened ... But you don’t understand the concept (after analyzing all the airborne airborne forces) ... Tactical landing, strategic, operational and Special forces ... All landing troops have their own tasks and, consequently, weapons and equipment.
      1. cannabis
        cannabis 3 January 2018 22: 23
        0
        It would be advisable to learn more about the strategic and operational landings. And even more interesting is the special-purpose landing - what kind of gimp?
        1. PiP
          PiP 3 January 2018 23: 20
          +1
          If my memory serves me ... It's in my BRAIN || BRAIN (the upper part of the skull is hidden by a bone)! Will you find it yourself or find it for you?
  4. Vladimir Sychev
    Vladimir Sychev 3 January 2018 10: 53
    +1
    This car must swim! Otherwise, what kind of intelligence is it? Even Verkhmat in World War II had a light reconnaissance floating car ...
    1. cannabis
      cannabis 3 January 2018 11: 20
      +1
      "Even the Wehrmacht ...." I liked.
    2. Nick
      Nick 3 January 2018 14: 42
      0
      Quote: Vladimir Sychev
      This car must swim! Otherwise, what kind of intelligence is it? Even Verkhmat in World War II had a light reconnaissance floating car ...

      And where did you get that Typhoon reconnaissance car? The car is designed to transport a salmon and protect it from small arms mines and fragments.
  5. ProkletyiPirat
    ProkletyiPirat 3 January 2018 11: 26
    +2
    to summarize the squandering of resources for this project
    1) we get a wheeled machine that can airborne landing - no one has an advantage over existing equipment
    2) the machine weighs about the same as the existing equipment, although according to some reports even more (gross weight up to 12-15 tons) - no one has an advantage relative to the existing equipment
    3) the equipment has weaker armaments in comparison with the existing equipment, for example, there is no 100mm gun like BMD with melon, or 125mm gun like octopus-sd or 120mm like nona it’s impossible to put more powerful weapons on this platform - deterioration relative to the existing one technicians
    4) reduced maneuverability due to reduced supporting surface - deterioration relative to existing equipment
    5) inability to overcome water obstacles - deterioration relative to existing equipment
    6) it may be possible to increase the number of abandoned equipment? - also not, for the mass is the same, but the dimensions are even larger
    7) it may be possible to transport by helicopter? - again, everything is the same as now because the mass and dimensions.
    And why the heck did you have to do this garbage? due to improved mine protection? so it can be put on bmd-3 \ 4 due to the same V \ U-shape, we also get an increase in the height of the car without losing anything else. In general, the Ministry of Defense again spends resources nepoymi where and nepoymi what ....
    1. seos
      seos 3 January 2018 12: 32
      +1
      The fact of the matter is that they spent a lot of time and money on these armored cars (from the 90s they cram all unsuccessful versions) .. but the meaning of all this is not visible ...
      As a result, several dozen varieties of armored vehicles (watermen, lynxes, shots
      , tigers, etc.) that is, the experience of using 3 MBT (t-64, t-72, t-80) taught them nothing ..
      And since they spent the money on these unnecessary armored cars, they had to create a crazy concept of "light crews" ...
      Let me remind you that the cost of an armored car is not cheaper than the cost of the BTR-80 and 2 times more expensive than the cost of MT-LB ... for the place to create an adequate modification of the BTR-80, they simply poured the loot into the toilet ...
      1. cannabis
        cannabis 3 January 2018 13: 57
        0
        I will continue your phrase - “the concept of light teams” - can be developed on the basis of all-terrain vehicles GAZ-70. They, unlike UAZs, float and carry on themselves up to one and a half tons.
        1. MOSKVITYANIN
          MOSKVITYANIN 3 January 2018 14: 29
          +1
          Quote: cunning
          I will continue your phrase - “the concept of light teams” - can be developed on the basis of all-terrain vehicles GAZ-70. They, unlike UAZs, float and carry on themselves up to one and a half tons.

          Offer this GAZ-70 of the enemy army, I will see where they will send you with this request awkward, you are our careful ....
          1. cannabis
            cannabis 3 January 2018 14: 33
            +1
            I won’t offer you what you need and you’ll drag a hump .....
      2. MOSKVITYANIN
        MOSKVITYANIN 3 January 2018 14: 28
        +3
        seos Let me remind you that the cost of an armored car is not cheaper than the cost of the BTR-80 and 2 times more expensive than the cost of MT-LB ... for the place to create an adequate modification of the BTR-80, they simply poured the loot into the toilet ...

        For the entire period of the existence of the USSR, such an armored personnel carrier was not created and motorized rifles were delivered to the battlefield on armor .....
        Now the Party and the Government began to think about human lives of the A / C, therefore, armored cars of various types (light and heavy) with mine protection went into the troops and you again do not like people like you always will not like anything, in your opinion let it continue the coffins of the Russian army goes .... and there will be losses you will howl that the current government drank all the money, but didn’t do normal armored vehicles ....
        1. cannabis
          cannabis 3 January 2018 14: 53
          +1
          That's it, sit down fighter. Grade "5" for patriotism. What would you know military science - 3,5 percent of armored vehicles are being blown up on mines.
          1. NKT
            NKT 3 January 2018 16: 23
            +2
            And on the landmines? Look at the statistics on Chechnya.
            1. cannabis
              cannabis 3 January 2018 19: 40
              0
              The fighting in Chechnya, as well as in Afghanistan, was organized in violation of basic principles.
              1. ProkletyiPirat
                ProkletyiPirat 3 January 2018 20: 17
                +1
                Quote: cunning
                were organized in violation of basic principles.

                Good excuse for all occasions.
          2. MOSKVITYANIN
            MOSKVITYANIN 3 January 2018 19: 21
            0
            Quote: cunning
            That's it, sit down fighter. Grade "5" for patriotism. What would you know military science - 3,5 percent of armored vehicles are being blown up on mines.

            You have no idea what military science is and what it includes ... d ... you're boisterous ...
            1. cannabis
              cannabis 3 January 2018 19: 45
              0
              Cho is strangling you with anger, drink some water, otherwise the pressure will jump ... And yet .... you need to bow, harness, well, as it should. "concepts". Read carefully, remember ... and I’m also very interested- But what does military science “include” all the same? Explain ......
              1. MOSKVITYANIN
                MOSKVITYANIN 3 January 2018 21: 39
                0
                Quote: cunning
                But what does military science “include” all the same? Explain ......

                It is a broader concept and includes art of war ...
                MILITARY SCIENCE

                knowledge system about laws, military strategist. the nature of the war, ways of preventing it, building and preparing the Armed Forces and the country for war, the laws, principles and methods of warfare. struggle. War as a complex socio-polit. the phenomenon is studied by many societies., natures. and tech. sciences. DOS subject V.N. is an armament. wrestling. V.N. explores the problems of war and arms. struggle with taking into account the dependence of its course and outcome on the ratio of econ., moral-political., scientific and technical. and military. the capabilities of the belligerents, its forms, methods of preparation and conduct in a strateg., opera. and tact. scale in large-scale, regional, local wars and armed conflicts; composition, organization and tech. aircraft equipment; problems of military training and education, training of the population and mobilization. resources for war; content, forms and methods of command (control) of troops (forces) in peace and military. time.

                Website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
                http://encyclopedia.mil.ru/encyclopedia/dictionar
                y / details.htm? id = 4339% 40morfDictionary
          3. Nick
            Nick 3 January 2018 19: 37
            +1
            Quote: cunning
            That's it, sit down fighter. Grade "5" for patriotism. What would you know military science - 3,5 percent of armored vehicles are being blown up on mines.

            Why mines. The armor of an armored personnel carrier and SVD breaks through, not to mention the heavy machine guns.
    2. Nick
      Nick 3 January 2018 19: 06
      0
      Quote: ProkletyiPirat
      And why the heck did you have to do this garbage? due to improved mine protection?

      Quote: ProkletyiPirat
      In general, the Ministry of Defense again spends resources nepoymy where and nepoyim what ....

      Well, yes, in Australia you know better than in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, you are our Kengurin. In general, Typhoon differs from other armored vehicles in service with the Airborne Forces with a higher level of protection for transported L / S. For what it actually was developed. Obviously, the General Staff of the Russian Federation decided that a high level of protection against weapons is necessary. And by the way, the Typhoon’s off-road ability is enough to use it on the European theater, and on the Central Asian and Middle East theater, too ... Just the same, as well as on the Australian ... If that. bully
      1. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 3 January 2018 20: 21
        0
        Quote: Nick
        Nick

        Dear nickname, since you are so ignorant in terms of IT technologies and have not even heard of a proxy, I’ll clarify for you if there would be a Martian or, at worst, moon flag, you could put it if you wanted. hi
        And so yes in St. Petersburg around a kangaroo run .... a couple with drunk bears playing balalaikaslol
        1. Nick
          Nick 3 January 2018 23: 14
          0
          Quote: ProkletyiPirat
          Dear nickname, since you are so ignorant in terms of IT technologies and have not even heard of a proxy, I’ll clarify for you if there would be a Martian or, at worst, moon flag, you could put it if you wanted.

          Not, of course, I'm not Jobs Gatesovich, but I heard something.
          Quote: ProkletyiPirat
          And so yes in St. Petersburg around a kangaroo run .... a couple with drunk bears playing balalaikas

          I'm not Freud Kashchenkovich of course, but I heard something about psychoanalysis and psychiatry. By signs, you have aberration of consciousness. Just in case, I inform you that Peter is not in Australia. Either change the flag, or you should go to Sedova Street, village 122 Psychiatric Hospital No.1 named after Kashchenko. This is not in Australia, this is in St. Petersburg. See do not get lost in the flows of your consciousness.
          Stay healthy. hi
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 4 January 2018 01: 08
            0
            ah ha ha ha psychiatrist found, go read better about what sarcasm is. laughing
            1. Nick
              Nick 4 January 2018 05: 11
              0
              Quote: ProkletyiPirat
              ah ha ha ha psychiatrist found, go read better about what sarcasm is. laughing

              This is my answer to your previous post. hi
  6. Piramidon
    Piramidon 3 January 2018 12: 08
    0
    Is there a parachute pack on the roof or something? winked
    1. Nick
      Nick 3 January 2018 20: 10
      0
      Quote: Piramidon
      Is there a parachute pack on the roof or something? winked

      There is a shoulder strap for installing weapons. By the way, on this light wheeled "battleship" you can install a very serious weaponry, 30-mm automatic gun for example. That is, typhoons have not only increased crew protection, but also very high firepower
  7. verner1967
    verner1967 3 January 2018 12: 18
    0
    Quote: Town Hall
    Check these numbers from other sources ...
    for example, from which?
    1. Town Hall
      Town Hall 3 January 2018 12: 29
      0
      Quote: verner1967
      Quote: Town Hall
      Check these numbers from other sources ...
      for example, from which?



      These 35.000 parts of which divisions?
  8. NEXUS
    NEXUS 3 January 2018 14: 03
    +2
    Scorpio disappeared somewhere ... it seems that they wanted to make it massive, to replace AUZiks and GAZiks ...
  9. Lexus
    Lexus 3 January 2018 14: 11
    +4
    Very decent machine good
  10. Town Hall
    Town Hall 3 January 2018 14: 18
    0
    MOSKVITYANIN,
    Hitler did not give his order from the ceiling either.
    1. MOSKVITYANIN
      MOSKVITYANIN 3 January 2018 14: 36
      +1
      Quote: Town Hall
      MOSKVITYANIN,
      Hitler did not give his order from the ceiling either.

      Probably. The Germans and I were the first to think of the widespread use of the Airborne Forces, and I think the views of the entrance of the WWII on the use of the Airborne Forces were the same with the Germans ...
      Although the use of the Airborne Forces in the war with Japan suggests that the Soviet command did not throw the concept of the use of the Airborne Forces in the long boxes, although I think the USSR was late with the creation of the airborne assault units ....
      The use in WWII by the Anglo-Saxons of the Airborne Forces in Europe, North Africa and Burma was more successful and more fruitful than that of the Germans and ours ...
      1. Town Hall
        Town Hall 3 January 2018 14: 44
        0
        Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
        The use in WWII by the Anglo-Saxons of the Airborne Forces in Europe, North Africa and Burma was more successful and more fruitful than that of the Germans and ours ...



        Just because they had something that neither Germany nor the USSR could achieve — absolute air supremacy over the landing zone. And all the same, huge losses.


        Continuing to spend money on the creation of all these airborne divisions and on equipment for them, the only advantage of which is that they can be pushed into the frenzy of the plane with the current development of air defense. Stupidly, no carrier will reach the landing zone.
        1. MOSKVITYANIN
          MOSKVITYANIN 3 January 2018 15: 38
          0
          I agree. However, they can be used as airborne assault forces (for example, the fight against the second echelons of the enemy), which explains that the bulk of the current airborne forces of the Russian Federation consist of airborne assault units ...
          They want to deploy the same 31th brigade (Ulyanovsk) to the 104th VShD ....
          I don’t know the truth, where do we get so many AA helicopters for them ...
          1. cannabis
            cannabis 3 January 2018 20: 43
            +3
            Well, wise guy, tell me, against which such 2 echelons will airborne assault forces fight? Against the second echelon of battalions (in the second echelon of the mixed battalion of Germany, a tank company stands out - 13 Leopards), against 2 echelons of brigades (24 infantry fighting vehicles and 15 armored personnel carriers, 600 personnel / s) or 2 echelon divisions - an entire brigade of 3,5 people and 54 Leopard. And this is at best if the motorized infantry brigade). A man carries pseudoscientific nonsense, sculpts a hunchbacked wattle. Asked - For what? Well, after all, "not a tooth in the tooth" in military affairs .... But the main thing is to be noted. What a funny one, Clausewitz Maskovsky. Come on, still frost something!
            1. MOSKVITYANIN
              MOSKVITYANIN 3 January 2018 23: 44
              0
              cannabis Well ka wise guy

              Thank. I will not answer reciprocity, gee ....
              Against the second echelon of battalions (in the second echelon of the mixed battalion of Germany, a tank company - 13 Leopards is advanced), against 2 echelons of brigades (24 infantry fighting vehicles and 15 armored personnel carriers, 600 echelons of the division) - 2 echelon divisions - an entire brigade of 3,5 thousand people and 54 thousand. And this is at best if the motorized infantry brigade)

              Listen to you, so in the East European theater of war they will fight, on the one hand only airborne units, and on the other motorized infantry / tank
              Funny what, Clausewitz

              Here is a clipping from an Internet about the 101th VSHD of the US Armed Forces, including with maps (in the magazine "ZVO" it’s all easy to find):
              Considering the purpose of the Airborne Forces, US military experts believe that it can independently and in cooperation with other types of formations conduct an offensive, defense, cover the withdrawal of the main forces, and launch counterattacks. Overcoming natural and artificial obstacles through the air (forests, swampy and built-up areas, minefields, areas of infection and destruction), the division is able to penetrate the enemy’s position, influence its second echelons and reservescommunications, organs of the rear, points of contact and control, deliver sudden strikes against them from various directions, including from the rear. Division divisions maneuvering by helicopters can create “mobile” foci (areas) of active combat operations in the enemy’s deep rear area, which contributes to disruption of the work of its command and control bodies and rear support.

              http://pentagonus.ru/publ/23-1-0-194
              Airborne Forces (Airborne Forces) - a branch of the Armed Forces, which is a means of the Supreme High Command and designed to cover the enemy in the air and perform tasks in its rear to disrupt command and control, capture and destroy ground elements of high-precision weapons, disruption of the nomination and deployment of reserves, disruption of the rear services and communications, as well as covering (defense) of certain directions, areas, open flanks, blocking and destruction of the landed airborne assault forces, the enemy groupings that have broken through, and other tasks.

              Website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation https://structure.mil.ru/structure/forces/airborn
              e.htm
              Comrade "Mr." how do you finish the Academy of the General Staff of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, return to the discussion, if I’m not banned by that time, we will definitely continue .....

              I don’t want to talk to you further, because I don’t learn anything good from you ....
              1. cannabis
                cannabis 4 January 2018 10: 55
                0
                Well, you’re not a military man, you’re “wikipedia”, why are you climbing where you’re “not with your ears or your snout?” Besides, you’re cowardly - you have started a dispute, asked for an answer and you’ll “molt” it yourself. After all, you have not given ANY argument, you just quoted Internet resources. I understand and forgive this amateurish craving for the image of a harsh military man.
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          2. Town Hall
            Town Hall 3 January 2018 21: 02
            0
            Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
            They want to deploy the same 31th brigade (Ulyanovsk) to the 104th VShD ....
            I don’t know the truth, where do we get so many AA helicopters for them ...




            And what is the difference between the landing of helicopters of conventional infantry and airborne forces? ... except for the show-offs in the form of a beret and vest.
            1. MOSKVITYANIN
              MOSKVITYANIN 3 January 2018 23: 24
              0
              Quote: Town Hall
              And what is the difference between the landing of helicopters of conventional infantry and airborne forces? ... except for the show-offs in the form of a beret and vest.

              Well, in a landing way on helicopters, you can also throw tactical landings (in the film "In the Zone of Special Attention" this is well shown), i.e. dismounted motorized rifles, but in a parachute way only paratroopers .....
              Although you raised a good topic. For example, the British once in the 90's created the 24 th AEBr. (on the basis of the 24th Bombardment. 2th Battalion), consisting of two airmobile battalions and two motorized infantry (without heavy weapons), of course, it existed for a relatively short time and subsequently was included (along with the 5th VDBr.) in the current 16 1st HSPB., however, I think that if we again transfer all of our HSPB. to subordinate the commanders of the districts (now the USC) and to strengthen these brigades with motorized rifle battalions (without heavy weapons) but with additional PTS, we (the USC command) will receive a weak aviation and anti-tank reserve (it is assumed that regular AA helicopters will be assigned to each brigade) ...
              Instead, we see that the Airborne Forces are reinforced by tanks, without an increase in VTA (it begs the idea of ​​who will use the Russian Airborne Forces?) ....., and how quickly the USC can use the DSBR. stationed on their territory?
              1. First iron-faced
                First iron-faced 7 January 2018 00: 47
                +2
                M-yes! and why this excursion to the now disbanded British 5 airborne brigade and 24 amber, and to the existing 16 airborne brigade, where airborne turntables are generally concentrated in the air force? It was enough to mention the AA brigades of the US divisions in the context of the air mobility of infantry (dismounted motorized infantry companies) of a potential enemy.
                In my opinion, we need at least mixed-helicopter regiments (two esc. Attack and transport-assault helicopters) to the states of each TD / MSD, of which there are not so many.
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                ... as an airborne landing they can be used (for example fight with the second echelons of the enemy.

                Of course, IT WAS POSSIBLE at one time with 72 anti-aircraft guns / attack helicopters AH-64A (+ 16 AH-1S in reconnaissance battalion) and with such saturation with anti-tank weapons in each of the 9 pambas - 24 TOU, 36 “Dragon” (other anti-tank systems in reconnaissance battalion and in the calculations of 105-mm howitzers ("Dragon") ...
              2. First iron-faced
                First iron-faced 7 January 2018 00: 50
                0
                ... But, the wording is better to look closely (at least for some and without a difference) ...

                ZVO No. 1/1991, i.e. in the context 80s of XX century.

                It turns out that the 31st and 56th airborne brigades are in the state (I don’t know of other living oddsbras, and, by the way, are subordinate to the Airborne Forces command and do not obey any other headquarters of military units) did their helicopter units appear? There are airborne transport in the airborne divisions, not to mention the absence of attack helicopters as part of the airborne forces in general. In SA, there were only three helicopters in the Far East Military District, ZabVO and ZakVO (13th, 11th and 21st oddsbr). ATGM (well, if the standard number of calculations is saved), if not installed on the BMD-2 (PDB), then 18 in the AT battery dshb (AT battery brigade -12/18). PTS in the companies below: RPG-7 / -16, we never had light manual ATGMs suitable for launching from the shoulder (“soft start”).
                Somehow too much Anglo-American is out of place, while from the 80s of the last century, when, let’s say, there was a peak of NATO power due to the power of the SA.
                For this I hasten to say goodbye.
        2. Nick
          Nick 3 January 2018 20: 01
          0
          Quote: Town Hall
          Continuing to spend money on the creation of all these airborne divisions and on equipment for them, the only advantage of which is that they can be pushed into the frenzy of the plane with the current development of air defense. Stupidly, no carrier will reach the landing zone.

          Listen, well, do not flatter yourself, do not consider yourself smarter than specialists from GS. Pride is a great sin. Syrian experience has shown that there are no fools in MO and GSH. Airborne Forces is an instrument of how it should be, how to use it and in which cases it is not up to you to decide. The strategy and tactics of application are determined by specialists and create combat manuals.
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 3 January 2018 20: 27
            0
            Quote: Nick
            The strategy and tactics of application are determined by specialists and create combat manuals.

            And, well, yes, for sure, such specialists often sit there, that I want to shoot everyone. Although there is no doubt there are talents. That's only against the general background of their work tending to zero. Although there are exceptions.
            1. Nick
              Nick 3 January 2018 22: 00
              0
              Quote: ProkletyiPirat
              And, well, yes, for sure, such specialists often sit there, that I want to shoot everyone

              It is possible pathology
              You do not keep it, go to a psychologist, but it will not help, then consult a psychiatrist. God willing they will help.
              May God grant you health.
              1. ProkletyiPirat
                ProkletyiPirat 3 January 2018 22: 46
                0
                And you as they say do not get sick.
  11. viktorch
    viktorch 3 January 2018 16: 53
    0
    another shushpanzer obsolete for thirty years
    1. Nick
      Nick 3 January 2018 20: 03
      0
      Quote: viktorch
      another shushpanzer obsolete for thirty years

      Without serious reasoning, your statement looks quite to itself, demagogically. negative
    2. - = ANTRAX = -
      - = ANTRAX = - 4 January 2018 00: 32
      0
      it's about HMMWV with absolute certainty we can say.
      1. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 4 January 2018 01: 12
        0
        Quote: - = ANTRAX = -
        it's about HMMWV with absolute certainty we can say.

        Do not touch the humvee, it is suitable for transportation by helicopters, unlike a typhoon.
        1. Nick
          Nick 4 January 2018 05: 21
          0
          Quote: ProkletyiPirat
          Do not touch the humvee, it is suitable for transportation by helicopters, unlike a typhoon.

          Typhoon can be transported by Mi 26 helicopters. Learn the mathematical part.
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 4 January 2018 17: 45
            0
            Thank you, learn the materiel and you, especially how many of these Mi-26s are in the troops, their restrictions on transportation, and most importantly, examples of helicopter units of the NATO countries (as the most often used in real wars), and you will see that they are transporting MORE cargo, and this is done due to the separation of the cargo and its transportation on several lighter turntables. Neither Nona nor Typhoons allow this. hi
            1. Nick
              Nick 4 January 2018 19: 22
              0
              Quote: ProkletyiPirat
              Thank you, learn the materiel and you, especially how many of these mi-26 are in the troops, their restrictions on transportation, and most importantly, the examples of helicopter units of NATO countries (as the most often used in real wars), and you will see that they are transporting MORE cargoes, and this due to the separation of the cargo and its transportation on several lighter turntables.

              A folding bike can be transported in the trunk of a penny. hi
              1. ProkletyiPirat
                ProkletyiPirat 4 January 2018 22: 31
                0
                Quote: Nick
                A folding bike can be transported in the trunk of a penny.

                and? what's next? what thought arises from your objection?
  12. rocket757
    rocket757 3 January 2018 19: 01
    +3
    Interestingly, if you drop it as a Yankee, the Humvees drop, i.e. plop and u, press not treba?
    Our after this will go ???
    1. ProkletyiPirat
      ProkletyiPirat 3 January 2018 20: 29
      0
      after that nothing will go ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 3 January 2018 21: 18
        +3
        I want to believe in miracles! But what if!!!
        I saw a couple of times how they flop with an unopened parachute. And once it was not a technique ... brrrr
  13. serge siberian
    serge siberian 3 January 2018 20: 11
    +1
    Since we’re driving on wheels, we’ll fight in the territory of a likely enemy. After all, there are no swamps and few rivers, and roads are good. Well, think of the water in the cabin after being in the aquatic environment, it’s the same water it will find its way everywhere. it’s drowned. Selawy. In a country of unparalleled size, we will manage only with the professional staff, he will cope. laughing lol
  14. k_ply
    k_ply 3 January 2018 21: 17
    +2
    In vain, the BRDM-2 also recalls the corresponding tasks (reconnaissance and patrol, patrol, RBFBR, but not floating), including those carried out in the controlled territory and in the rear area of ​​their troops, i.e. close to the tasks of light foreign MRAPs (Oshkosh M-ATV) as part of the occupation forces, for example (where they replaced the regular Humvee, Bradley, Striker, amphibious marines). Rather, the machine will not replace or supplement the BMD directly in the airborne infantry squadron / dshb in the Airborne Forces.
    1. Nick
      Nick 4 January 2018 05: 44
      0
      Quote: k_ply
      In vain, the BRDM-2 also recalls the corresponding tasks (reconnaissance and patrol, patrol, RBFBR, but not floating), including those carried out in the controlled territory and in the rear area of ​​their troops,

      Well, comparing BRDM with Typhoon is not correct. The typhoon is almost twice as heavy. 13,5 vol. Against 7 vol. Protection class according to GOST 5, against 1-2 protection class with BRDM. Typhoon's armament is an order of magnitude more powerful than the 30 mm automatic gun plus PKTM. The BRDM has two machine guns of calibers 14,5 and 7,62, respectively.
      1. k_ply
        k_ply 4 January 2018 06: 31
        +3
        Dear, this is primarily about the purpose and tasks of the machine, and not about TTX (I wrote a comment on the article, in this, by the way, there is no close emphasis on the technical. Features of the modification "Typhoon-VDV / -D"). You will still compare the mass-dimensional characteristics and weapons of the BMP-1 and Kurganets-25, arguing what is correct and what is not correct.
        1. Nick
          Nick 4 January 2018 19: 18
          0
          Quote: k_ply
          Dear, this is primarily about the purpose and tasks of the machine, and not about TTX (I wrote a comment on the article, in this, by the way, there is no close emphasis on the technical. Features of the modification "Typhoon-VDV / -D")

          And I’m showing you that the tasks that both of these machines solve are best solved by Typhoon, and precisely because its performance characteristics are better suited for this.
          I-16 and Su-27 are both fighters, but the combat power of Drying is several orders of magnitude higher precisely because of its performance characteristics.
          Sincerely ... hi
          1. k_ply
            k_ply 5 January 2018 08: 53
            +3
            Well, and you were not only initially told about the succession of generations of BM, showing that, in my opinion, is the target predecessor in some units of combat support. But the successor is not able to swim, just a replacement has really matured.

            I-16 ...
            The chariots of ancient Egypt have been forgotten.
            1. Nick
              Nick 7 January 2018 20: 53
              0
              Quote: k_ply
              I-16 ...
              The chariots of ancient Egypt have been forgotten.

              Well Duc! The logical chain can be continued indefinitely. stupid still does not understand, alas, but clever enough ... hi
  15. MOSKVITYANIN
    MOSKVITYANIN 3 January 2018 21: 42
    +1
    Quote: cunning
    The fighting in Chechnya, as well as in Afghanistan, was organized in violation of basic principles.

    So enlighten us, exactly what principles were SA not observed in Afghanistan?
  16. - = ANTRAX = -
    - = ANTRAX = - 4 January 2018 00: 19
    0
    the Military Acceptance program has an issue about this car. good
  17. poquello
    poquello 4 January 2018 17: 34
    +1
    ProkletyiPirat,
    ahem, reconnaissance airborne
  18. Uralean
    Uralean 4 January 2018 21: 38
    0
    Quote: Nick
    Quote: cunning
    If you are on a short foot with Vinkinpendia, then find out from her what the military specialty code of the VUS 021000 means. This is my diploma specialty.

    Yes, I spit on your diploma. The nonsense that the certified, that is not the certified, all the same nonsense will remain. Alas...

    That's right .. There were high-ranking military experts, like General Vlasov .. He also knew many military terms, he knew tactics and strategies of warfare not only of the Brigadier, but also of the Cabinet level, he could competently discuss military issues under Stalin ... And they entrusted the army, and all-in-one, sintered .. As Suvorov said, not warlords and commanders are fighting, but warriors, the spirit of a warrior is worth more than an enemy regiment ..)
  19. Uralean
    Uralean 4 January 2018 21: 47
    0
    Quote: cunning
    You do not argue with me, I just quoted the opinion of Colonel Starinov.

    The opinion of Colonel Starinov, this is just the opinion of Colonel Starinov, and that’s all .. There are tens of thousands of colonels in Russia and people who know and understand. Which may have a different opinion, and I think the diametrically opposite opinion of Colonel Starinov .. And most importantly, they can give good arguments .. Although you can find hundreds of arguments for and against .. Therefore, decisions are made by no comot or regiment, but at a higher level ... The regiment, brigade commanders, divis, can only express their comments on products, in field trials, in order to bring products to perfection ... Although the path to perfection is endless ...)