Military Review

The myth of the "Tatar-Mongol yoke"

734
780 years ago, 1 January 1238, the remnants of the Ryazan troops and the army of Vladimir-Suzdal Russia were defeated by the Batu army at the battle of Kolomna. This decisive battle was the second after the Battle of Kalka the battle of the united Russian troops against the "Mongols". By the number of troops and perseverance, the battle near Kolomna can be considered one of the most significant events of the invasion.


As noted earlier, the myth of the “Mongols from Mongolia” was thought up in the conceptual and ideological center of the West, which stores the “keys” of stories, in papal Rome. Russian superethnos (Russ) has existed since the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has already at least 40 - 45 thousand years. but the true history of Russia and super-ethnos was “circumcised” and distorted in the interests of the masters of the West and their lackeys, serfs in Russia, who want at any cost to become part of the “world civilized community”, at least at the price of surrender of the motherland. Since the true story is dangerous to the owners of the West, claiming world domination. And Russians try to plunge Russians into ignorance, turn them into "ethnographic material." Finally dismember and assimilate, turn into slaves a new world order, as the Russian- "Ukrainians". This is beneficial to both the masters of the West and the East. Russians are perfectly assimilated, they become Chinese, Turks, Arabs, Germans, French, Americans, etc. At the same time, they bring in fresh blood, often being creators of creators, giving impetus to the development of civilizations, countries and nationalities of which they become.

In the West, they cannot recognize that Russia-Russia, as a geopolitical reality, has always existed, and appeared before the most western project and civilization. Moreover, the superethnos of the Rus always occupied the territory of Northern Eurasia.

Under the term "Mongols" in the XIII - XIV centuries. In no case should real Mongoloids be taken living in the lands of present-day Mongolia. The self-name, the real ethnonym of the autochthons of present-day Mongolia is Khalkha. They did not call themselves Mongols. And they never seized China, did not reach the Caucasus, Persia-Iran, Asia Minor, the Northern Black Sea region and Russia. Khalkhu, Oirats are anthropological Mongoloids, then they were a poor nomadic community, consisting of separate genera. They were primitive shepherds and hunters who were at a very low primitive communal level of development and under no circumstances could create even the simplest proto-state education, not to mention the kingdom and empire of the global level of significance. For this, we needed a state tradition, a high level of spiritual and material culture, a developed economy capable of equipping the armies of tens of thousands of soldiers. Primitive Mongoloid tribes were at the level of the development of the then Indian tribes of the Amazon or North America. That is, even with the most fantastic luck and lucky circumstances, they could not crush China, Khorezm, the kingdom of the Caucasus, the powerful tribes of the Polovtsy and the Alans, defeat Russia and invade Europe.

Anthropological studies of burial grounds of the XIII - XV centuries. also show the absolute absence in Russia of the Mongoloid element. Modern genetic studies confirm the absence of the Mongoloid element in the Russian population. Although if the myth of the "Mongol" invasion was true - with hundreds of thousands of invaders, thousands of destroyed and burned Russian villages and cities, tens of thousands of people taken into slavery. With a long “Mongolian” yoke (up to 1480 of the year) with attendant invasions, raids, battles, the withdrawal of the masses of people in full, etc. However, any war (just look at the massacre in modern Iraq and Syria) is accompanied by massive violence against women and by girls. Women are always booty of a successful conqueror. However, the Mongol element is not! This fact, which is impossible to challenge. The Russians, in spite of the false myths that concoct in the West, were and remain the Northern Caucasians.

Thus, the "Mongol" invasion was not. And the "Mongol" empire was not. But the cruel war as such was. There were bloody and fierce battles, sieges of cities and fortresses, pogroms, fires, looting, etc. There was an Horde-Rada, tribute-tithing, labels, treaties, tsars-khans, joint campaigns of Russians and "Mongols", etc. Everything described by the chronicles was, this is confirmed by the data of archeology.

However, the Mongols did not invade Russia. In the forest-steppe zone of Eurasia from the Caucasus and the Black Sea to Altai and the Sayans, including Inner Mongolia, at this time there lived the late Russes of the Scythian-Siberian world, the heirs of the Great Scythia, the Aryan and the Boreal world. Hundreds of powerful genera united by language (Russian is the true keeper of ancient history, therefore, they are trying to distort and destroy it, which would deprive us of the last source of spiritual power), by the Boreal-Aryan traditions of superethnos, by a single pagan faith. Only the Rus could put thousands of well-armed and trained fighters, warriors in many generations. The mighty fair-haired and light-eyed Rus-northerners. Hence the myths of the late Mongolian and Turkic nationalities about high, fair-haired (red), light-eyed giant ancestors, it is a memory that part of the Rus was assimilated by the later Mongolian and Turkic peoples, giving them khan, princely and noble families.

Only these Ruses were able to make such a great march, largely repeating the glorious deeds of distant ancestors, which brought development impulses to China, reached the Indus and created Indian and Iranian civilizations, laid the foundations of Rome in Europe through the Etruscan races, Ancient Greece (all the gods of Olympus are of northern origin), Celtic (Scythian-chipped) and Germanic worlds. That's who the real "Mongols" were. Rusam of the Scythian-Siberian world, the heirs of the Great Scythia, the Aryan world and Hyperborea - the great northern civilization that occupied the territory of modern Russia, could not be resisted by anyone. They crushed and conquered China, giving it the ruling elite and the Russian guard guarding the emperors. They subjugated Central Asia, returning it to the bosom of the great northern empire. Since ancient times, Central Asia has been a part of Great Scythia.

In a campaign to the west, the Scythian-Siberian Rusians defeated the Tatars of the Urals and the Volga region, annexed them to their Horde (from the Russian clan - horde, ordnung). Other fragments of the Great Scythia - the Tatar-Bulgars (Volgaris), Polovtsy and Alans defeated and subjugated to themselves. Moreover, the Tatars were then pagans of the common Boreal (northern) tradition, and not so long ago separated from the Boreal ethno-linguistic and cultural community and Mongoloid impurity did not yet have (unlike the Crimean Tatars genus). Until the XIII the differences between the Russians and the Volgar Tatars were extremely insignificant. They appeared later - after the Islamization of the Bulgars-Volars and parallel Mongolization as a result of the penetration of Mongolian carriers into the Volga region.

Thus, the "Tatar-Mongol" invasion is a myth invented in papal Rome to destroy and distort the true history of humanity and Russia. It was an invasion of Scythian-Siberian pagan Russians, who dragged into their army the pagans of the Tatar-Volgaras, the pagans of the Polovtsi (also close relatives of the Russians of Ryazan and Kiev), the Alans, and the inhabitants of Central Asia who had not yet lost their Scythian roots. As a result, a fierce clash occurred between the pagan Russes of Asia and the Russo-Christians (mostly dvoyverov) Ryazan, Vladimir-Suzdal and Chernihiv, Kiev, Galitsko-Volyn Rus. Tales about the "Mongols from Mongolia", like the beautiful, but historically false novels of V. Yang, must be forgotten.

The battle was fierce. Rusas fought with the Rus, carriers of the oldest military tradition of the planet. As a result, the Scythian-Siberian Russes took up and, relying on the conquered kingdoms and tribes, including Russia, created the Great "Mongolian" empire. Later, this empire, under the conceptual and ideological influence of the hostile centers of the West and the East, began to be reborn and degrade. The main role in the degradation of the Golden (more correctly, White) Horde was played by Islamization and arabization. A huge influx of Arabs attracted by gold led to the victory of Islam over the ancient boreal tradition. The elite of the Horde chose to accept Islam, destroying noble births that remained faithful to the old faith, and repelling from themselves the masses of ordinary Horde, who remained faithful to the old tradition. Also, on the outskirts of the empire, the process of assimilation was actively going on - the Rus after a few generations became Chinese, “Mongols”, Turks, etc. This led to the collapse of the empire. And the history of the Eurasian Empire-Horde came to us in the "crooked mirrors" of Muslim, Chinese and Western sources, where they tried to clear the silence about the moments they did not need.

However, the northern empire and tradition did not perish. The period of dual faith in Russia ended with the emergence of fiery Russian Orthodoxy, which absorbed much of the ancient northern tradition (Almighty - Rod, Jesus - Horse, Mother of God - Mother Lada, Mother, George the Victorious - Perun, cross and fire cross - swastika-kolovrat - have millennial roots in superethnos, etc.). Kulikovo Field has shown that a new center of attraction has emerged for the entire Russian, including the Horde, who did not accept the Islamization of their elite. For a half century, this new center was able to restore the main core of the empire. The first king-emperor of the new Russian empire should recognize Ivan Vasilyevich the Terrible (hence to him such hatred from the Russian Westernizers and the masters of the West). In his reign, Russia began to restore positions in the south, in the Caucasus and in the Caspian Sea, with one blow returned all the Volga region (Kazan and Astrakhan), opened the way to Siberia.

The indigenous population of these territories, the descendants of the Scythian-Sarmatian population, returned under the hand of a single imperial center and tradition. It is now becoming clear that in the late Middle Ages, as before, the entire inner continental Eurasia, as Western sources called it the “Great Tataria” from the Danube, the Dnieper and the Don to Siberia, was inhabited by descendants of the Scythian-Sarmatians, that is, the Russ, direct Russian brothers from Novgorod, Moscow and Tver. Not surprisingly, then in the eyes of Western Europe, the concepts of "Russia" and "Tataria" meant the same thing. We have always been barbarians, wild “Mongol-Tatars” for the inhabitants of the West. Although in the XIV - XVI centuries. Siberia was inhabited by no “Tatars” or “Mongols”, but white people, surprisingly similar to the ancient Scythians and modern Russians (one kind and tradition).

Milestones of the invasion

At the meetings of the "Mongolian" nobility 1229 and 1235. it was decided to go west. The rate was located in the lower reaches of the Yaik. Separate groups of "Mongols" began the conquest of the Transcaucasus and the North Caucasus. Tabriz was seized in 1231, and Ganja in 1235. Many Armenian and Georgian cities were captured: Kars, Karin (Erzerum), Ani, Tbilisi, Dmanisi, Samshvilde and others. Subudei's detachment made a trip to the country of aces (Alans) in 1236. Then Mengu Khan and Kadan went to the Circassians.

In 1229, the Great Kahan (Kagan) Ugedei sent troops of the western part of the state - the Juchi Ulus - to help the advanced detachments. The "Mongols" carried out a reconnaissance march on Yaik, defeated the troops of the Polovtsi, the Saxins and the Bulgarians-Bulgarians. The Bulgarians-Volgari, realizing the danger from the east, made peace with Vladimir-Suzdal Russia. In 1332, a large "Mongol" army reached the border of Volga Bulgaria. But the Bulgarians repelled this blow. For several years, the "Mongols" fought with the Bulgarians, who put up stubborn resistance. Volga Bulgaria successfully defended itself by erecting powerful fortified lines along the southern frontiers. At the same time, the Horde continued to crush the resistance of the Polovtsy, the struggle against which lasted for several years.

In 1235, according to Rashid-ad-Din, Ogedei II arranged a large council (kurultai) "regarding the destruction and extermination of other recalcitrant peoples, the decision was made to take possession of the Bulgars, Asov and Russia countries, which were located next to the Batu campsite, were not yet conquered and were proud of their multiplicity. " To help Batu sent 14 noble khans, the descendants of Genghis Khan. The number of invading army reached 150 thousand soldiers. Usually, each of the Chingizid princes commanded tumen-darkness, that is, 10, thousand cavalry corps.

Thus, the "Mongols" gathered a huge army, which included troops from all uluses (regions). At the head of the troops stood the grandson of Genghis Khan, Batu (Batu). In 1236, the Horde troops came to Kama. All summer, the detachments moving from different uluses moved to their destination, and in the fall, “within the borders of Bulgaria, the princes joined together. From the multitude of troops, the land groaned and hummed, and wild animals and predatory animals were dumbfounded by the multitude and noise of the hordes. In the late autumn the fortifications of Bulgaria-Bulgaria fell. In fierce battles Volga Bulgaria was completely devastated. The storm was taken the capital of the Bulgarians (Bulgar), famous for the inaccessibility of the area and a large population. In the Russian chronicle it was noted: "And I took the glorious great city of Bulgaria (Bolgar) and beat the weapon from the elder to the young and to the real child, and took the goods many, and burned the city with their fire, and capture all their land." Other major Bulgarian cities were also destroyed: Bular, Kernek, Suvar and others. At the same time, the Mordovian and Burtass lands were devastated.

In the spring of 1237, the army of Batu, completing the pogrom of Bulgaria, moved into the Caspian steppes, where the struggle with the Polovtsy continued. The conquerors forced the Volga and a wide front (round up) combed the steppes. The raid was grandiose in size. The left wing of the invading army went along the coast of the Caspian Sea and further along the steppes of the North Caucasus to the lower reaches of the Don, the right wing moved northwards along the Polovtsian possessions. Here the corps of Guyuk Khan, Monke Khan and Mengu Khan attacked. The struggle with the Polovtsy lasted all summer. At the same time, the troops of Batu, Horde, Berke, Storm and Kulkan conquered land on the right bank of the Middle Volga.

In the winter of 1237, the invaders entered the Ryazan principality. Russia, divided by the feuds of the princes, did not deploy a single army and was doomed to defeat. Separate Russian squads and rati offered fierce and stubborn resistance in the field and on the walls of cities, in no way inferior to the militant invaders, but suffered defeat, inferior to the large and disciplined army. "Mongols" had the same organization (decimal system), weapon, but they had the opportunity to crush individual centers of resistance, breaking cities, lands and principalities separately. In addition, under the conditions of the “war of all against all”, the centuries-old system of defense from the steppe in the south was broken. Individual princes and lands could not support her full-fledged work. The single defense system of the country was replaced by the defense of each principality separately, and the tasks of defense against an external enemy were not the main ones. Fortifications were built mostly from their own. The steppe no longer seemed so dangerous as before. For example, in the Ryazan land from the steppes, the principality covered only Pronsk and Voronezh advanced far to the south. But from the north, from the direction of Vladimir-Suzdal Russia, Ryazan had a whole chain of strong fortifications. The exit from the Moskva River to the Oka was covered by Kolomna, Rostislavl fortress stood slightly higher along the Oka River, Borisov-Glebov, Pereyaslavl-Ryazansky, Ozhsk were located downstream the Oka. To the west, on the Sturgeon River, Zaraysk was located, to the east and north-east of Ryazan - Izheslavets and Isady.

The defeat at Kalka did not teach the Russian princes much; they did little to organize the defense and form a unified army, although they were well aware of the approaching formidable invading army. The news of the appearance of the “Mongols” after Kalki on the frontiers of Volga Bulgaria reached Russia. They knew in Russia and about the fighting on the border of Bulgaria. In 1236, the Russian chronicles reported the defeat of Bulgaria. Vladimir Grand Prince Yury Vsevolodovich was well aware of the threat: the main stream of refugees from the destroyed Volga region was in his possession. The Volgar-Bulgars then fled to the Rus in masses. Vladimir's prince "Velma was glad of this and ordered them to be raised to cities near the Volga and to others." Yuri Vsevolodovich was aware of the conquering plans of the “Mongolian” khans from Horde ambassadors, who repeatedly traveled to the west. They knew in Russia about the place where Horde troops gathered to march on Russia.

About where the troops of Batyi were gathering in the autumn of 1237, the Russians themselves “handed the words to the Hungarian monk Julian”. Hungarian monk Julian twice - in 1235 - 1236 and 1237 - 1238, traveled to Eastern Europe. The official purpose of the long and dangerous journey was the search for the Hungarians, who lived in the Urals and kept paganism to bring them to Christianity. But, apparently, the main task of the monk was strategic intelligence, undertaken by the papal throne to study the situation in Eastern Europe on the eve of the Horde invasion. Julian and his companions visited the Taman Peninsula, Alanya, the Lower Volga region, Bulgaria and the Ural region, Vladimir-Suzdal and South Russia.

Thus, there was no talk of a strategic suddenness of the invasion. It was possible that the fact of the winter offensive was new, the Russian princes got used to the autumn raids of the Polovtsi. After the defeat of Volga Bulgaria, the emergence in the Russian lands of the masses of refugees from the Volga region and the war in the Polovtsian steppes, which had a lot of ties with Russia, the closeness of the great war was obvious. Many advised the Grand Duke of Vladimir "to strengthen the cities and to agree with all the riches to the resistance, if the wicked Tatars came to his land, but he hoped for his strength, like before, it despised." As a result, each land met with the army of the invasion of Batu one on one. 100-150 thousand Horde army received complete superiority over individual cities and lands.

The myth of the "Tatar-Mongol yoke"

The story of the ruin of Ryazan Batu. Miniature. Facial arch of the XVI century.

The fall of Ryazan

Ryazan was the first to meet the invasion. In winter, 1237 of the year, the invaders entered the Ryazan principality: "That same summer, for the winter, coming from the eastern countries to Ryazan land, a forest of godless Tatars and pochashe voevati Ryazan land and the captives of (and) ...". The enemies reached Pronsk. From here they sent ambassadors to the Ryazan princes, demanding tithing (a tenth of the whole) than they owned. The princes of Ryazan, headed by Grand Duke Yuri Igorevich, gathered a council and gave an answer: "But if there is no us all, then all yours will be." Yuri Igorevich sent for help to Yuri Vsevolodovich in Vladimir and Mikhail Vsevolodovich in Chernigov. But neither of them helped Ryazan. Then the prince of Ryazan called princes from his land and from Murom. In order to draw time, they sent an embassy with Prince Fedor Yuryevich to Batu. Prince Fedor came to the river. Voronezh to the king Batu, Horde received gifts. But soon the dispute broke out and the ambassadors were killed.

Meanwhile, the land of Ryazan was preparing for an unprecedented battle. The men took axes and rattles, went to the cities in the militia. Women, children and old people went to the deep forests, to the Meshcherskaya side. For the border land of Ryazan, the war was common, the villages quickly became empty, people were buried in secluded places, behind impassable forests and marshes. After the departure, the steppe dwellers returned, rebuilt again. Before the terrible external threat, the Ryazan people did not flinch; the Russian people got used to meet the enemy with their breasts. The princes decided to bring the army into the field, towards the enemy. Upon learning of the death of the embassy, ​​Prince Yuri began to collect troops, and told other princes: “We'd rather die than be in the foul will!” The combined army of Ryazan land moved to the border. There were professional squads of princes and boyars, skillful fighters, well trained and armed, there was a city militia and Zemstvo army. The troops were led by Yuri Igorevich with nephews Oleg and Roman Ingvarevichi, Murom princes Yury Davydovich and Oleg Yuryevich.

According to historian V.V. Kargalov, the people of Ryazan did not have time to reach Voronezh and the battle took place on the border of the principality. According to the contemporaries, “they began to fight hard and courageously, and was slashing evil and terrible. Many shelves have fallen strong Batu. But Batu's strength was great, one Ryazan fought with a thousand, ... All the Tatar regiments marveled at the fortress and courage of Ryazan. And they barely overpowered their strong Tatar regiments. ” “Many local princes, strong and voivods, and the host: Ryazan bastards and rezvetsy. All the same, they died, and they drank a single cup of death. None of them returned: all the dead lay together ... ". However, Prince Yury Igorevich with a few warriors managed to break through and gallop away to Ryazan, where he organized the defense of the capital.

Horde cavalry rushed into the depths of Ryazan land, to the townships of Przemska, who were left without dead guards. “And they began to fight the Ryazan land, and ordered Batu to burn and whip without mercy. Both Pronsk hail, Belgorod hail, and Izheslavets ruined to the ground, and killed all the people without mercy, ”wrote the Tale of the Ruin of Ryazan by Batu.” Having defeated the towns of Przeczyn, the Batu army moved across the ice of the Proni river to Ryazan. 16 December 1237 Horde laid siege to the capital of the principality.

The Russian city was protected with all the skills of that time. Old Ryazan stood on the high right bank of the Oka, below the mouth of the Proni. On three sides the city was surrounded by powerful earthen ramparts and moats. On the fourth side to the Oka was a steep river bank. The ramparts reached a height of 9 - 10 m, with a base width of up to 23 - 24 m, the ditches in front of them were up to 8 m depth. On the shafts were wooden walls of log cabins filled for strength with rammed earth, clay and stones. Such walls were very resistant. The problem was that the main forces of Ryazan had already died in the battle of Voronezh.

The ranks of defenders during the assaults quickly thinned, and there was no replacement. Ryazan stormed day and night. "Batyovo army was replaced, and the townspeople fought continuously, - wrote a contemporary, - And many citizens were beaten, and others were wounded, and others from the great works were exhausted ...". The city beat enemy assaults for five days, and on the sixth of December 21, 1237 took it. Residents died or were captured. Prince Yuri Igorevich and the remnants of his squad were killed in a fierce street battle: "Wsi umrosha ...".

Then other Ryazan cities fell, and "not a single one from the princes ... you will not help each other ...". However, when the Horde moved farther north, they were suddenly attacked from the rear by a Russian squad. He was headed by voivode Evpaty Kolovrat, who was in Chernigov during the siege of Ryazan, trying to get help. But Mikhail of Chernigov refused to help, because “Ryazan did not go with them to Kalk”. Kolovrat returned to Ryazan and found ashes. He assembled 1700 fighters and began to beat the Horde.

“The Tale of the Ruin of Ryazan, Batu” says: “... chased after the godless king, Batu, to avenge Christian blood. And they caught up with him in the land of Suzdal, and suddenly attacked the camps of Batu. And they began to whip without mercy, and the Tatar regiments mixed up. ... The soldiers of Evpatiy beat them so mercilessly that their swords were dulled, and they took Tatar swords, cut them, passing Tatar regiments. Tatars also thought that the dead rebelled, and Batu himself was afraid. ... And he sent to Yevpaty the brother-in-law of his Household ruler, and with him many Tatar regiments. Khoztovrul praised Tsar Batu Yevpaty Kolovrat with the hands of the living to take and bring to him. And the shelves came together. Yevpaty hit the Khoztovrul-bogatyr and cut him with a sword in two to the saddle; and he began to infect the Tatar force, and beat many bogatyrs and Tatars, cut them in two, and others before the saddle. And they informed Batu. When he heard this, he grieved for his brother-in-law and commanded to impose many vices on Evpatiy, and began to beat on him, and barely managed to kill so strong-handed and audacious in heart and lvivogorostnogo Evpatiya. And they brought him dead to the king of Batu. Baty, seeing him, was surprised with his princes his courage and courage. And he commanded his body to give to his remaining squad, which in that battle was captivated. And ordered them to let go ... ". And the Tatar princes said to Batu: “We with many kings in many lands, visited many quarrels, and did not see such bastards and rezvetzs, and our fathers did not tell us. These people are cruel and have death, so hard and courageously fight, one with a thousand, and two with darkness. None of them can leave alive from the battlefield. And Baty himself said: “Oh, Evpaty Kolovrat! You beat up many strong heroes of my horde, and many regiments fell. If I served such a person, I would hold him against my heart! ”


Kolovrat. Artist Ozhiganov I. Ye.

To be continued ...
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Why create a fake about the "Mongol" invasion of Russia
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  1. NEXUS
    NEXUS 5 January 2018 06: 04
    20
    Now, bit by bit they are restoring our history. Sewing the once rich in events, and the ancient canvas of our people, torn by Western scholars, pseudo historians and simply charlatans. There was no Iga and the Tatar-Mongol invasion. All these are the notions of Western historians who either intentionally or from blunt conceit purposely distorted our history, inscribing non-existent pages into the book of our history, at the same time removing the truth from it.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 5 January 2018 06: 25
      15
      The second time I read the article. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although of course it is impossible to say for sure. The story of this girl is the same as you turn it ...
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 5 January 2018 06: 30
        20
        Quote: 210ox
        The second time I read the article. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although of course it is impossible to say for sure. The story of this girl is the same as you turn it ...

        For example, tell this to Miller, with whom Lomonosov “fought” all his life. People like Miller rewrote our history, reducing it to a thousand years (and thanks for that no less), editing and castrating it to please the West, which always experienced its inferiority and weakness, being next to Russian civilization.
        1. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich 5 January 2018 06: 57
          17
          Quote: NEXUS
          It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although, of course, it is impossible to say for sure.

          Quote: NEXUS
          You, for example, tell Miller with whom Lomonosov "fought" all his life

          Quote: NEXUS
          There was no Iga and the Tatar-Mongol invasion. All these are the notions of Western historians who either intentionally or from blunt conceit purposely distorted our history, inscribing non-existent pages into the book of our history, at the same time removing the truth from it.

          Right now, adherents of academics and school books will fly in and will (despite our personal opinion, for I agree with you) accuse him of heresy and ignorance of the foundations of history, as well as be ranked among the Fomenkovites and tell that tithing is the worst thing with the “yoke” , yes, it’s so scary that the modern almost 30% of the tax (and in some places more) is a kindergarten compared to then tithe wassat
          And the evidence will be given by the arguments of modern historians, as irrefutable evidence of the existence of a yoke in the past. for they are true historians, and we who are agitating, and their fingers are not worth our unbelief in fairy tales drinks
          If anyone is interested, then in the evening I will tell you some moments from the modern history of my town (which has been more than a thousand years old according to official history), because now I need to run to work hi
          1. Yarik
            Yarik 5 January 2018 10: 26
            28
            See Klim Zhukov and enlighten. How much can you fuck up any.
            1. Rurikovich
              Rurikovich 5 January 2018 18: 25
              +3
              Quote: Yarik
              See Klim Zhukov

              Well, yes, Klim Zhukov is a god and only he is right laughing tongue
              1. Yarik
                Yarik 5 January 2018 19: 50
                +8
                Well, yes, Klim Zhukov is a god and only he is right

                No, not God. I suppose (I'm in theology ... not that ...) He argues, cites factual material as evidence. And not mythical.
                1. Baikal
                  Baikal 18 January 2018 19: 19
                  +1
                  The graphomanian little article is just plain waste laughing
                  The Russian superethnos (Russ) has existed from the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has at least 40 - 45 thousand years.

                  Bgagaga)) And somewhere in the coffin Levashov sprang up convulsively)) 40 pokes! Hahahahaaa)))
                  Paleontologists, archaeologists and historians tremble - Alexander Samsonov revealed the truth to the world !!!))
                  Samsonov - You did not write the whole truth! It was the Russian superethnos that exterminated the dinosaurs and didn’t give a damn about the proto-collar)))
                  ---
                  Burst out. But seriously, as a rule, such worldviews are the result of ignorance, laziness and childhood psychological trauma. Or disorder in life. I'm sorry for such people, really.
                  1. Baikal
                    Baikal 18 January 2018 19: 26
                    +1
                    By the way, if you use the VO search, you can see that similar articles on the topic of yoke are published with an enviable frequency of 1-2 once a year for sure.
                    Samsonov, You would come up with something new. Why do not update the manuals on the atral))
                  2. Baikal
                    Baikal 18 January 2018 19: 52
                    +1
                    Quote: Baikal
                    such worldviews are the result of ignorance, laziness and childhood psychological trauma. Or disorder in life. I'm sorry for such people, really.

                    The same applies to the editors of the Military Review.
                    Boulevard jaundice for the faint, not a military portal.
          2. Hoc vince
            Hoc vince 5 January 2018 12: 58
            +1
            Rurikovich Today, 06:57
            Angela to work.
            We look forward to the history of your town.
            1. Varyag_0711
              Varyag_0711 5 January 2018 14: 16
              35
              Rurikovich Today, 06:57 ↑
              Right now, adherents of academics and school books will fly in and will (despite our personal opinion, for I agree with you) accuse him of heresy and ignorance of the foundations of history, as well as be ranked among the Fomenkovites and tell that tithing is the worst thing with the “yoke” , yes, it’s so scary that the modern almost 30% of the tax (and in some places more) is a kindergarten compared to the then tithe wassat
              Forgive me for importunity, and you ascribe yourself to which adherents? Or do you really believe this author’s nonsense?
              And they never captured China, never reached the Caucasus, Persia-Iran, Asia Minor, the Northern Black Sea Region and Russia. Khalkhu, Oirats - anthropological Mongoloids, then were a poor nomadic community, consisting of disparate genera. They were primitive shepherds and hunters who were at a very low primitive communal level of development and under no circumstances could create even the simplest proto-state entity, not to mention the kingdom and empire of global significance.
              I would like to ask Samsonov, on the basis of what such sources such "thoughtful" conclusions are made. It’s just a statement that the Mongols were so worthless, and the Russians are so advanced that they are no different from the same statements by a certain protestor of Bebik ... laughing Samsonov will soon surpass all protoucres with his "superethnos." fool
              And tell me what such sources have been found lately that would convincingly break the classical interpretation by the historians of the Tatar-Mongol invasion? Hungarians and Poles apparently also do not know their history, if they also believe that the troops of Batu reached them?
              With the same success, one can deny the conquests of Alexander of Macedon, as well as the existence of the Roman Empire or the Arab Caliphate. belay
              1. Rurikovich
                Rurikovich 5 January 2018 18: 24
                +9
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                Forgive me for importunity, and you ascribe yourself to which adherents?

                I am on my own. request I need common sense and ordinary logic to be present. but if I start to suck in, that they voluntarily paid tithes. then such evidence is not accepted as common sense. Or, like, "on pain of the death penalty, incest was forbidden." Bullshit. And this is only in the description of "yoke" - the rest of the story does not speak of such "noble" conquests lol
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                Or do you really believe this author’s nonsense?

                I don’t argue, the author went a lot where, but at least he expressed his opinion, just explained it in his own way.
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                And tell me what such sources have been found lately that would convincingly break the classical interpretation by the historians of the Tatar-Mongol invasion?

                And how many sources have appeared to prove it laughing historians interpret history in their own way, people in their own way, that’s the whole gimmick. Some are right that they are scientists make others believe in the nonsense they prove.
                Darwinism was also unquestioned, and so what. Today, stupidly only a ossified apologist for history will believe in him. But scientists, by no means, can in any way admit that they were mistaken, for everything that their faith rested on would collapse. I personally say the same thing about historians regarding the yoke
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                With the same success, one can deny the conquests of Alexander of Macedon, as well as the existence of the Roman Empire or the Arab Caliphate

                Another 20 years and everyone will believe that America took Berlin, and the USSR did not even participate, and you want to make me believe in the stories of historians about cases 800 years ago laughing ? hi
                1. Baikal
                  Baikal 18 January 2018 19: 45
                  +1
                  The problem is that you are completely unaware of what history and the principles of historical methodology are. This happens, as I already wrote, from ignorance, disorder in life, and most importantly - laziness, the desire to justify complex things with simple explanations that fall into the understanding of the world from their positions and their limited experience ... Continue, it turns out funny)) laughing



                  This is your greetings from Kapova cave near Ufa, in which
                  From the article: Russian superethnos (Russ) exists ... 40 - 45 thousand years

                  Russian superethnos made purely Russian superethnic drawings 15-17 thousand years ago laughing
                  1. Michael_Zverev
                    Michael_Zverev 18 January 2018 20: 57
                    +1
                    What's wrong with that? These are elephants, ordinary Russian-Aryan elephants,
                    what.
              2. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 6 January 2018 11: 07
                11
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                With the same success, one can deny the conquests of Alexander of Macedon, as well as the existence of the Roman Empire or the Arab Caliphate.

                Hmm ... Wait a minute, those "experts" who are now "eliminating" the Mongol yoke with might and main, receive money for the completed order, pull the viskar and ... are ready to proceed with the next order! "Drown" A.Makedonsky? Soak! Erase Caliphate from cards? Bury it! We take on the price list ... even tugriks, if only in more! bully
              3. Antares
                Antares 6 January 2018 13: 41
                +4
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                do not differ from the same statements of a certain protector Bebik.

                only recently wrote that every nation has such
                it’s customary to laugh only at strangers ...
                1. Baikal
                  Baikal 18 January 2018 19: 36
                  +1
                  Well, our people definitely have a tradition of laughing at fools laughing
                  And their friends or strangers - it does not matter))
              4. _person_
                _person_ 7 January 2018 02: 34
                10
                It is still unknown who is closer to the proto-Ukrainian version of world history - you with your "classic" ideas about history or the author.
                I believe it is no secret to anyone that, first of all, the party that has gained an advantage in political battles is rewriting the history of other states and peoples. So you yourself cited Ukraine as an example .. it just works, efficiently and in the long term (for many generations).

                The questions posed in the article are adequate and require more in-depth study.

                In my opinion, the so-called "Tatar-Mongol invasion" is a Western interpretation of the civil war in Russia, in which the eastern part of Russia, which retained the old pagan faith, did not accept the Western imposition of a new faith and culture on us, came into conflict with another part of Russia, which It turned out to be more influenced by the West, as a result also went to the Russian princes, who became the guides of Western values ​​to Russia, historically always closer than those located in the western part of Russia, due primarily to geographical reasons.

                And since the "advanced" West always rightly considered Russian civilization to be the main competitors in global politics, the terms barbarians, Tatars, Mongoloids and so on, especially with reference to the bearers of pagan traditions, came up and fits perfectly in historical and political discussions on the topic.
            2. Rurikovich
              Rurikovich 5 January 2018 18: 32
              +4
              Quote: Hoc vince
              We look forward to the history of your town.

              Well, if you are interested, I’ll only tell you a case that made me doubt at the moment the desire of historians to convey the truth to the ears (eyes) of the people hi
              I live in a small town Turov (Belarus)

              On the Internet you can easily find an excursion into the history of the Principality of Turov. So, in the picture in the foreground is a hill fort with a shelter (we call it a sarcophagus) over the excavated ruins of a 12th-century temple

              During reconstruction, the city during its heyday had this appearance

              We compare the modern look and the expected one and see that, in principle, the place of the temple fits in with the excavations (today it is a museum)
              1. Rurikovich
                Rurikovich 5 January 2018 18: 46
                +9
                Quote: Rurikovich
                (today it is a museum)

                Let's continue. And here’s a tower like Kamenetskaya

                also present. And even in the alleged place on the detinets there was an elevation. If you believe the story, then it was disassembled in 1830 by decree from above. But in the wake of euphoria from the found temple, they decided to unearth it too (all the same, the exposition of Castle Hill would be more complete with the foundation of a powerful defensive structure - agree yes ) but when they laid a powerful pit, they excavated .... a 7x7m brick cross, but not part of the round foundation

                It was made of brick, not plinfa, which would make the structure dated to one period. Without knowing what to do with it, first they covered

                A visible square shelter of brown color almost in the center of the picture, and then quickly fell asleep under a trifling pretext. And for more than ten years there has been dead silence ... For the found artifact does not at all combine with the speculations of historians. And it’s most likely that fears to revise the history, justified by the banal lack of funds, which seems cynical to me, just prevent me from getting to work and getting to the truth.
                Here you have the attitude of historians to the evidence base. It seems to dig more and find out what is there, but .... silence request hi
                Why did I tell you exactly this, because the moment is interesting, not advertised (slipped in the news and quickly died out), and my homeland. But to explain why some kind of cross, and not a tower, historians can not ..... or do not want ... Academics hi
                1. Hoc vince
                  Hoc vince 5 January 2018 19: 40
                  +3
                  Rurikovich Today, 18:32
                  Rurikovich Today, 18:46
                  Thank you It was interesting.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
          3. Proxima
            Proxima 5 January 2018 15: 25
            13
            Quote: Rurikovich
            Right now, adherents of academics and school books will fly in and will be (despite our personal opinion ...

            So I want to listen to your personal opinion, dear Rurikovich, do you consider people like Klyuchevsky, Solovyov, Ilovaysky and many other outstanding historians cretins?
            Personally, I am of the opinion of Gumilyov, who denied the Mongol-Tatar yoke in its “classical” form, and spoke of internecine wars involving the Turkic element. Or do you deny it? There were no numerous Turkic princes and khans? Russian princes probably fought with the Hyperboreans? fellow
            Such wars with the involvement of external forces have always been (Polovtsy, Pechenegs), but there was an overkill with Turkic tribes such that the Russian ethnic group almost ceased to exist.
            In the history of the Mongol-Tatar yoke (as in other historical periods) there are many controversial issues. Fakes like Fomenko and a hedgehog like him also use this. This is an entire industry that parasitizes on our ignorance and simply elementary illiteracy.
            1. Rurikovich
              Rurikovich 5 January 2018 18: 12
              +7
              Quote: Proxima
              So I want to listen to your personal opinion, dear Rurikovich,

              Ok
              Quote: Proxima
              Do you consider such people as Klyuchevsky, Solovyov, Ilovaysky and many other prominent historians cretins?

              You yourself a priori exalted certain people and ascribe to me what I should think about them with my opinion wink This is the usual cheap provocation negative If these historians are great (everyone decides for himself) on the basis of their work, then this does not mean that what they wrote is the ultimate truth. Are they the same age as Nevsky or Donskoy to read their opinion true? No. Therefore, they are no better than today's mystifiers of history. If you consider them great - your right request
              Quote: Proxima
              Personally, I am of the opinion of Gumilyov, who denied the Mongol-Tatar yoke in its “classical” form, and spoke of internecine wars involving the Turkic element. Or do you deny it?

              So how many years have I been saying this thing !!!!! laughing My personal opinion was that there was no yoke, but there was a banal period in the life of peoples in a certain territory with their internecine squabbles, their prosperity (and the neighborhood “yoke” with the mass construction of churches doesn’t fit in with anything - but your scientists still impose their "yoke"), with their tax system, etc. But no - you need to come up with some kind of conquest and stupidly defend it. Here is my opinion - whatever you want, but not the wretchedly imposed "Tatar-Mongol yoke" hi
              Quote: Proxima
              There were no numerous Turkic princes and khans?

              Yes, today take any multinational country and start studying its linguistics, there are so many parallels that can be seen in relation to different interpretations of one word (name, thing, title, etc.)!
              Quote: Proxima
              Russian princes probably fought with the Hyperboreans? fellow

              Yes, they fought among themselves without impurities of different Mongols there laughing .
              Quote: Proxima
              In the history of the Mongol-Tatar yoke (as in other historical periods) there are many controversial issues

              Yes our whole story is controversial issues yes
              Quote: Proxima
              Fakes like Fomenko and a hedgehog like him also use this.

              And here, be careful - with many of them lacking in the interpretation of other controversial issues, they are strong in dating and if you read a little, one date is proved in different ways. So here they are by no means worse than your venerable historians wink Only some of them declared themselves a priori inviolable, while the rest was heresy, while others only suggested their point of view regarding history. So be careful ... But for myself, I do not exclude either one or the other, if their evidence base matches the usual logic and common sense
              Quote: Proxima
              This is an entire industry that parasitizes on our ignorance and simply elementary illiteracy.

              See a little higher. At least they do not blame historians for mortal sins, unlike historians. So historians are not angels either wink hi
              1. Luga
                Luga 5 January 2018 21: 47
                17
                Rurikovich, I like you. Without irony and, of course, only as an opponent in disputes.
                Regarding your example with the donor tower — didn’t you recognize that the tower was built in the 16th – 17th centuries, and not in the 12th – 13th centuries, as you thought before, on the basis of the studies you described? Historians know how to admit their mistakes if their constructions begin to run counter to common sense. However, argue that in the XII century. on the same spot of the tower it WASN’T, too, would be too hasty. It is possible that it was, but with subsequent construction, its foundation was destroyed.
                Now about the main thing - about the Mongols of our beloved, who, as some believe, were not, respectively, there was no invasion, and yoke.
                Even such an orthodox author as Samsonov, in his current incarnation, once agreed that there was an invasion. Previously, nothing prevented him from ignoring any facts, now he ignores them selectively - it’s already progress. So, the invasion still was. During this invasion, Russia suffered a military defeat of colossal proportions, as evidenced by the burnt cities, numerous mass graves and other archaeological traces. Note that I do not specifically mention written sources (annals, chronicles, memoirs, etc.) - only archaeological. The result of the military defeat was a sharp drop in the cultural level of the population of Russia - again, archaeological studies show a significant simplification of craft products, construction, the lack of literature is striking, in short, the defeat affected all sectors of life. Russia in its development was thrown back a hundred years ago. For example, the first stone structure, of any significant size, was built in Russia only 50 years after the invasion. Before that, they built almost every year.
                Samsonov and the chorus’s relatives say that it’s not some Mongols who organized this rout, but their own, like, Scythian-Russians, or whatever they call it. not a single evidence of the existence of any Slavic state in the Urals and Siberia in the XIII century. they don’t imagine that it’s not surprising, because they are not there, at least for now (if we do - we’ll review historical concepts and admit mistakes), and instead of proof they give gray-haired legends and phonetic harmonies, none of which will pass the examination of any qualified historical linguist. And since written sources completely refute their theory, they completely dismiss them, proclaiming them to be the fruit of a conspiracy of historians (Illuminati Catholics, Jewish Freemasons, Anglo-Saxons, etc.). If these people had even a superficial idea of ​​the number of these sources and their diversity both in place and in time of origin, common sense would tell them that stripping and remaking them all in a single concept is so difficult that even theoretically only the most extensive and conspiratorial network can cope with it, having in its composition professional historians, translators, and falsification specialists in an amount exceeding all reasonable limits. In addition to this, such a network should have an unlimited amount of time and material resources, working exclusively at a loss to the employer, without bringing him any income.
                And all this is just for the sake of Russians believing in the blatant lie that their ancestors were defeated by the Mongols. Where is the common sense? And these written sources all confirm the campaign of the Mongols (Moals, as they called themselves) from their places of birth west to Poland, Hungary and the Adriatic Sea. And also confirm the subsequent events, called in our historiography "yoke".
                Next, the yoke. If we mean by the term "Tatar-Mongol yoke" just a period of vassal dependence of Russia on the Horde, then everything falls into place, right? The conquerors of their own administration did not plant in the conquered territories (in Russia), they quickly refused to collect tributes personally, but they actively intervened in domestic political issues, and separatism was severely suppressed. Coming to Russia, they took what they wanted, people were taken away, cities were robbed. And the tribute, as the surest sign of vassal dependence, was scrupulously collected, the attempt to hide, reduce or appropriate it ended for the guilty in the event of his exposure very deplorably - examples of this are darkness.
                By the way, I’m ready to believe that Russian written sources were subjected to extraordinary cleaning with the total destruction of the most important documents, but this cleaning took place not in the 18th-19th centuries, but in the beginning of the 17th century, when the state archives were inspected for legitimization of Mikhail Romanov on the throne. But only this purge happened in the opposite direction - the memory of just the Mongols, of the invasion, of the yoke was erased, labels, letters, diplomatic correspondence with the Horde were destroyed, all of which could testify to the independence, dependence of the Russian princes on non-Jewish khans. It is enough to read the Charter Letter of 1613 in order to understand how Michael was seated on the throne. From the point of view of common sense, such a construction is more real than the "worldwide conspiracy", do not you?
                1. Luga
                  Luga 6 January 2018 00: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: Luga
                  Statutory Charter

                  Approved Diploma, of course, I apologize.
                  1. XII Legion
                    XII Legion 6 January 2018 08: 04
                    21
                    Keep
                    And forms of dependence, coupled with periodic invasions of the Russian principalities, make it possible to talk about Yoke. Very capacious term
                2. Spnsr
                  Spnsr 6 January 2018 08: 20
                  +4
                  Quote: Luga
                  . During this invasion, Russia suffered a military
                  colossal defeat

                  And here is the most interesting!
                  Or Russia - they would say now - a multinational army! (If you still adhere to the official version of the story, then hold on to the end, according to the officials, who is Russia?) It was then that they mastered the territory in question! Having cleaned the top of the subjects, note that each city, be it Bulgar, Ryazan, Kiev or Pskov with Novgorod, was a free city and could have its own system! And moreover, have a nationality different from modern one, for example, Ryazans in Ryazan, Bulgars in the Bulgars, and so on. And here they lead to one beginning, read create a state consisting of these cities as subjects! ...
                  1. Luga
                    Luga 6 January 2018 13: 50
                    +6
                    Quote: SpnSr
                    Quote: Luga
                    . During this invasion, Russia suffered a military
                    colossal defeat

                    And here is the most interesting!
                    Or Russia - they would say now - a multinational army! (If you still adhere to the official version of the story, then hold on to the end, according to the officials, who is Russia?) It was then that they mastered the territory in question! Having cleaned the top of the subjects, note that each city, be it Bulgar, Ryazan, Kiev or Pskov with Novgorod, was a free city and could have its own system! And moreover, have a nationality different from modern one, for example, Ryazans in Ryazan, Bulgars in the Bulgars, and so on. And here they lead to one beginning, read create a state consisting of these cities as subjects! ...

                    If you had bothered to express your thoughts more clearly, I might be able to answer you more to the point. You ask what is Russia? I answer: at the beginning of the XIII century. Russia was called the totality of lands managed by representatives of the Rurikovich dynasty, regardless of the presence or absence of a non-Slavic population in these territories of these lands. So Izhora, Vod, the whole, Mordovians, Meria, Torques, partly Korela, Ugra, Perm - are non-Slavic peoples, quite a part of Russia. The Bulgars, Polovtsy, Lithuania had their own states, which were not part of Russia.
                    Concerning
                    Quote: SpnSr
                    If you stick to the official version of the story, then hold on to the end
                    then here I’ll sort it out myself, okay? Or do you think that official historians take the oath, or what? "I, such and such, believe in the fact that there is no history outside of Nestor and Karamzin is his prophet, I believe in the Mongol invasion and the Tatar-Mongol yoke, the Kulikovo battle on the Don and the Battle of Poltava near Poltava, I betray the anathema of Fomenko and Nosovich, for they will burn at the stake from their own books, in the name of the great and all-blessed Nestor the Chronicler, so be it, amen. " It would be funny, but I will disappoint you - it is not. The community of historians is not the CPSU with its democratic centralism, remember this.
                    1. Spnsr
                      Spnsr 6 January 2018 23: 49
                      +3
                      Quote: Luga
                      You ask what is Russia?

                      about the fact that Russia is sometimes defined as, slaves, no, rowers in galleys!
                      and they are also trying to be attributed to the militarized tribe of travelers! it is so crudely exaggerated.
                      but one can also voice them as those who moved along the land inhabited by some kind of tribes, which still had no definite structure of relations in the overgrown population!
                      you can imagine how civilization developed on the planet, if it’s crude, let’s say, imagine how its development has taken place over the past two three centuries, then from a baton to modern technologies somewhere around 1,5-2 thousand years. And especially in view of the fact that the bulk of the world's population became acquainted with civilization in all its glory, only in the last century, we can emphasize that Europe got its sip of civilization only 2-3 centuries earlier, this is the same Europe, which is called eastern, it was the Russian Empire that created the features of many East European states, and only a few can be said to have learned it a little earlier. and then, rather, it looked like that while there was a ruler, there was a state that he created, but as soon as he swept it away, chaos began again !!!
                      and this is all the same story that is written in textbooks, but only through the prism of the real development of the planet!
                      for example, the so-called renaissance of Europe, which swept through Europe after they rolled back into the dark after antiquity! the period of the dark period is 30-50 years, after after the civil war, the so-called reconquest, the whole world was destroyed, and then (as an example of a rollback to the "darker century", the foundation period of the USSR, only with the reference to the fact that all the same, people were more educated, and not everyone was burned at the stake, and technically they were still at a higher level of development)
                      and again about the Mongols, the period that we are described as a type of Mongolian civilization, sometimes emphasizing nomadic, you yourself can imagine the difference and consonance of words with nomadic civilization, especially when passing the concept of civilization through the real meaning of the word.
                      the fact is that planet earth was inhabited by people who did not have the slightest idea that they belong to one or another ethnic race (the concepts of race, nationality and all that begin to form in the late 18th century and are still ongoing), so they lived, were engaged in feeding themselves, and civilization with the formation of nationality and statehood came to them by itself! with the help of the British Empire, the Russian Empire, the USSR!
                      this story is obvious, and the Mongol in this story is somehow not! but there is a population of southern Russia, which in the late 18th and early 20th centuries was defined by the Romanovs under different nationalities, including the Cossacks (divide and conquer), which in the last century had terrified Europe, and who were mobile, armed, knew how to fight with childhood, and moved around the world! including America! what is not the real story?
                      1. Spnsr
                        Spnsr 7 January 2018 12: 35
                        +2
                        Luzhsky, want a story?
                        In which there will be a place for Augustus, and St. George the Victorious, and the population, which was later named after the Cossacks, and civil wars?
                        Imagine, there was Augustus, who was engaged in the development of territories in the east, just do not drag Europe here, which was already mastered by Russia, in the classical sense of the word and where his relatives and the coming "boyars" ruled. So, after the development of new territories, he returns home and, due to civil strife and unfair governance in "Europe", decides to carry out reforms that the governors of these territories do not like and they kill him.
                      2. Luga
                        Luga 7 January 2018 17: 12
                        +4
                        Quote: SpnSr
                        about the fact that Russia is sometimes defined as, slaves, no, rowers in galleys!

                        As you wish, dear, it’s really hard for me to understand you. Too chaotic and haphazard you express your thoughts.
                        Quote: SpnSr
                        Luzhsky, want a story?

                        How interesting! laughing
                        Do you want mine?
                        Once upon a time there was someone, let's call him Thomas. He read a lot of the most diverse literature, including historical, and possibly looked even in the annals. From this very literature he read (including from the annals) he learned that there were princes in Russia, such as Andrei and Vsevolod Yurievichi, Yuri and Yaroslav Vsevolodovichi, Alexander and Andrei Yaroslavichi, and many others. And how can he still learn about them? Only from the annals. And then Thomas thought, thought another and decided - all the annals are lying, everything is untrue in them. The princes were like that, it’s true, but what they were doing about this chronicle lies shamelessly. And only he, Thomas, unraveled this lie and the whole world will tell about it immediately. And told. And he found himself even followers. I only forgot, poor fellow, that he bases all his conclusions on these very annals, the veracity of which he denies completely, that without them, these annals, he would have neither Andrei Yurievich, nor Yaroslav Vsevolodovich, nor Alexander Yaroslavich, who are only in these annals and exist. And it turns out that Thomas has some kind of oxymoronchik - the annals give us false premises, but we put them at the heart of the reasoning. Indeed, the laws of formal logic should be known to Thomas as no one else, in particular, that it is impossible to draw true conclusions from false premises. But Foma didn’t care, especially since his followers did not see such oxymoronists at point blank range and were completely unfamiliar with formal logic and its laws. But Thomas was worried and continues to worry about the number of books sold, the author of which he is, or rather, the number of rubles that he receives for this. And the number of books is growing, the number of oxymoronchiks is growing, the number of followers is growing, the number of rubles is growing.
                        The end of my story is much more joyful than yours - you have the evil "governors" of the hero killing, but he still lives with me to this day, he lives, lives and makes good.
                        In so.
                3. Antares
                  Antares 6 January 2018 13: 49
                  +1
                  Quote: Luga
                  The conquerors of their own administration did not plant in the conquered territories (in Russia), they quickly refused to collect tributes personally, but they actively intervened in domestic political issues, and separatism was severely suppressed. Coming to Russia, they took what they wanted, people were taken away, cities were robbed. And tribute, as the surest sign of vassal dependence, was scrupulously charged, an attempt to hide it,

                  like all nations of this time, are dependent on the distance of transmission of information. Bureaucratic apparatus in the field is not possible to create. Even the Romans could not cope with this, despite their roads. They planted locals, gave a collection plan and go. Bureaucracy is a sign of a higher society. Yes, and the availability of information.
                  The method you describe is relevant to this day and is not particularly different. Presidents are being planted, tribute in the form of investments, attempts at separatism suppress ...
                4. _person_
                  _person_ 7 January 2018 04: 12
                  +4
                  Historians know how to admit their mistakes if their constructions begin to run counter to common sense.

                  Key point :) it’s difficult to stir up the water when mistakes and / or explicit cheating and defamation become apparent.

                  During this invasion, Russia suffered a military defeat of colossal proportions, as evidenced by the burnt cities, numerous mass graves and other archaeological traces. ... The result of the military defeat was a sharp drop in the cultural level of the population of Russia - again, archaeological research shows a significant simplification of craft products ...
                  Russia in its development was thrown back a hundred years ago.

                  Given the size of the territory of Russia, any internecine skirmish will be considered by Western historians as a colossal battle. What can I say about the civil war in Russia.

                  Pro is discarded in development - yes, as after any war, especially civil war. Do you think in the West, for example, they believe that the GDR became a super-progressive part of Europe, after it was occupied by the USSR, the winner of the Second World War?
                  Crafts have also been simplified - what does this mean? Of course testifies, but not about what you are talking about ..
                  And how should Western historiographers generally interpret similar victories of Russian barbarians for the younger generations of future masters? Yes, even so.

                  have an unlimited amount of time and material resources, working exclusively at a loss to the employer, without bringing him any income.


                  And here you are mistaken. More precisely about the first one - time is really a secondary factor and resources are manageable if the goals are long-term and are implemented consistently and steadily. I agree with that.
                  But it’s accessible, the limitations are temporary and resource ones are subjective and depend on the quality of management implemented in practice and the ability to implement it in the succession of generations.

                  And about the loss - well, how so? This is not the first time in its history that Rus Ivan has sold everything to his “friends” in the West for mineral resources and the earth and human resources. You just underestimate the story. Or do you consider the idiots of those who finance "historical research" in "an even richer country" - Ukraine? Is this such a new kind of philanthropy in the West? This is the usual task scaling. Technologies are all old, tried and tested. See how this is done in a simple and easy way in miniature, if it is not so easy to cover the global historical and geographical scale.
                  Here you have the whole mercantile "common sense".

                  And the tribute, as the surest sign of vassal dependence, was scrupulously collected, the attempt to hide, reduce or appropriate it ended for the guilty in the event of his exposure very deplorably - examples of this are darkness.


                  I think it’s not a secret for you that state organization and maintenance of the army requires money. The words "tribute", "give", "file", more modern "taxes" are all of the same order of terms. Failure to pay can now have very dire consequences. In some countries, they can take their lives. This is our moratorium. Does this disprove or prove something?

                  About the global conspiracy - in fact there are only three civilizational forces in the world now, the West, Asia and Russia - which countries and how they relate to them
                  I think to state too much.
                  In this context, the word "world" is already quite hypertrophied.
                  Conspiracy - is the implementation of the participants' plans in secret from anyone. Thus, the implementation of this or that management, in achieving goals that are implicit or incomprehensible to the natives, that is, we are with you, for various reasons, including it is already possible to interpret not the most adequate education in the sense of conformity with objective realities of life as a “world-wide” conspiracy, but in reality an ordinary conspiracy realized to achieve selfish goals.

                  I’ll give you another example, with all my respect for GDP, when he quotes Lermontov, Farewell to the unwashed Russia to the whole country, and then tries to explain why the poet could write like that, this is a managerial mistake caused by poor-quality information - a historiographical summary .
                  Well, at least recently I began to add "if it is actually HE wrote."
                  And it would seem - just a pamphlet, and obviously not the pen of M.Yu. Lermontov ..
                  What can we say about the milestones in our history that have been rewritten and their impact on ongoing processes in the country and in the world. Now they claim that it was not the USSR that won the war, and that it was Stalin who planned to attack Germany, and not vice versa, and perhaps even attacked. Also the whim of the rich Pinocchio in the West, just like that, at a loss?
                  For some reason, we believe in what is happening now, but in the fact that it has been implemented many times before and the technology is not new - it is no longer there, it’s called a “worldwide conspiracy” ..

                  So the version of your opponent seems more lively, consistent and logical to me.
                  1. Luga
                    Luga 7 January 2018 16: 12
                    +6
                    Quote: _man_
                    So the version of your opponent seems more lively, consistent and logical to me.

                    Have you ever been involved in organizational work in your life? Just imagine what time and resources (including human) you will need to just distort one issue of the Pravda newspaper for, say, 1982 year. For example, replace the surname Ivanov with the surname Petrov in the article on the advanced production. Just one last name in several places in the article.
                    In order to conduct such an event in high quality, you need to find out where and in what storages there are currently copies of this newspaper, in what conditions they are stored, obtain one of them, using it as a sample, prepare counterfeit copies using information about storage conditions, bring falsifications in proper condition (to age, wipe, etc.), place them in the proper places. And then, the confidence that you have found and replaced ALL instances you do not and cannot be.
                    Chronicles and chronicles have been written and compiled from ancient times to the present in various places, ranging from ancient India and China to them, but from the back of the globe. All these chronicles and chronicles tell about events both within the state, and at its closest and not so neighbors, partially duplicating each other, therefore they can be cross-checked. WHO, tell me, could forge, remake tens of thousands of sources physically located thousands of kilometers apart, guarded premises, at the disposal of numerous rulers, often hostile, created and created over thousands of years, many times copied, and even and written in hundreds of different languages? WHO and HOW? You, with one name in one newspaper, have so many problems, and here you have to replace more than one word, here you need to know the languages, to own a style.
                    As for the "civil war", such a shame in our history would be worse than the defeat from the Mongols. A military defeat from a strong adversary, which then was not equal, especially after heavy and bloody battles in which our ancestors showed courage, heroism, and military skill, causes only pride. And when the Russians kill the Russians, they themselves destroy their own culture, science and craft, and such a “history” is simply a Russophobe dream! wassat For such a story it really should be a shame.
                    And finally, I don’t know anything about the Slavic states of the XII-XIII centuries, which would be located east of the Volga, with which Rus Rurikovich could fight. If you know something about those, please share information.
                    Everything else that you wrote is simply “reflections on the topic,” and especially theoretical ones, are of little interest to me in the context of this debate.
                    1. Spnsr
                      Spnsr 8 January 2018 00: 08
                      +3
                      Quote: Luga
                      In order to conduct such an event in high quality, you need to find out where and in what storages there are currently copies of this newspaper, in what conditions they are stored, obtain one of them, using it as a sample, prepare counterfeit copies using information about storage conditions, bring falsifications in proper condition (to age, wipe, etc.), place them in the proper places. And then, the confidence that you have found and replaced ALL instances you do not and cannot be.

                      it is somewhat easier than you describe, the fake is changed in two three reputable libraries, and when they bring for comparison another instance, different from the fake, it is called heresy and sent to the stake! because there is a fake copy in an authoritative library !!!
                      1. Luga
                        Luga 8 January 2018 01: 16
                        +6
                        Quote: SpnSr
                        it's a little easier than you describe

                        Yes Yes. With simplified concepts, living, of course, is easier ...
                      2. long in stock.
                        long in stock. 9 January 2018 07: 21
                        0
                        hmm ... do you seriously think that was so ??
                    2. _person_
                      _person_ 27 January 2018 17: 38
                      +2
                      Greetings! I apologize for the late response.
                      The fact that it’s difficult for you to imagine something does not mean that someone else near you does not realize this in his life.
                      Organizational work can also be done in different ways, reflecting on what is happening. I didn’t say that it’s easy to do it, without effort. Have you been asking the WHO question all the time? This distracts you from the essence and background of the process itself.
                      The answer to the question by whose hands this task is realized is not as significant as the question of why and in whose interests.
                      And I have already given you examples of the application of such technologies in our everyday life above, although you don’t deny it well.
                      Tell me how many of the current “one children” will look for this your only surviving copy of “Truth” and even at least a copy of it on the Internet, and if it does, what good is it? What will they allow to the textbooks of history and allow to enter there "an ideologically incorrect interpretation of historical facts?"
                      No, they will not allow it.
                      What you described as reasoning on the topic has been set out to at least somehow suggest that this works on long-term horizons. And whether you like to ignore it or not is already your own business.

                      In the end, I’ll quote from George Orwell, “Who rules the past, then rules the future; who rules the present, rules the past”
                    3. _person_
                      _person_ 27 January 2018 21: 16
                      +2
                      Quote: Luga

                      As for the "civil war", such a shame in our history would be worse than the defeat from the Mongols. A military defeat from a strong adversary, which then was not equal, especially after heavy and bloody battles in which our ancestors showed courage, heroism, and military skill, causes only pride. And when the Russians kill the Russians, they themselves destroy their own culture, science and craft, and such a “history” is simply a Russophobe dream! wassat For such a story really should be ashamed ..

                      Worse / better, this is your subjective interpretation, and I personally disagree with it. If for you to be defeated from the "Great Enemy" - it is an honor - this is your business. By the way, I can congratulate you in the 90s that “again” you “had the honor” of being defeated by the Great Opponent - the West, although this time the most powerful army in the world did not fire a single shot, but this is of little relevance. As for me, this is humiliating for the peoples inhabiting the territory of the former USSR.
                      But personally, I believe that this was exactly the way it was, and the fact that the political elite betrayed their people does not change anything in any way. But we have survived and are moving on and are gaining strength in the worldview and cultural confrontation with the West.
                      Have you ever been to Mongolia? Have you watched the life of people living there? It has not changed much over the past hundreds of years. All of Mongolia can be traveled by car in a week, almost half of the population lives in yurts, a simple way of life. The population of 2 million people. Do you really think that this
                      Could a great state subjugate Persia, China, Russia, and gather that army, which is mentioned in various sources from 120 to 200 thousand people, to arm all? Well, your business.
                      But where are the artifacts left over from the once-greatest empire in the world? From the Roman - is, from the Russian - is. Where from the Mongolian?
                      In addition to the stories of various historians - there is nothing.

                      You will take at least 2 minutes of your time and listen to what our president suddenly announced quite recently by historical standards:
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_WnlokRQyg

                      And think about it.
                      So everything may not be exactly like that or even not at all like we are described in history books. A lot of myths.

                      And regarding the Russophobic version or not. In my opinion, if there are unsightly moments in our history, hushing them up is dearer to yourself, mistakes need to be known and studied, even unsightly. If there are great moments in our history, they also need to know and honor the memory of their ancestors.
                      But not myths and not invented by historians in the service of someone else’s political interests of history. And in order for this to really be so for historians and we need to give answers to the questions posed above. Adequate answers, with archaeological evidence, but they are not yet available.
        2. Monarchist
          Monarchist 5 January 2018 09: 10
          +5
          And for the sake of "corn" Kiev added a hundred years, or how much? And then even in fairy tales they looked for a struggle with the cult of personality
        3. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 5 January 2018 14: 11
          11
          Quote: NEXUS
          For example, tell this to Miller, with whom Lomonosov “fought” all his life.

          We all know Miller’s works very well (I hope you also studied them, since you so categorically mention him). But for Lomonosov, history was not a priority science in his scientific work, but his idea that, for example, ancient Rus participated in ancient The Trojan War looks just childish and funny, without confirmation by any facts. And FACTS, it is the facts that modern science has accumulated a lot, enough for all obscurantists and historical romantics. Therefore, Gerhard Friedrichovich did not deserve to be reproached for nothing, he left his contribution in Russian science, and Lomonosov his own, in natural science is very significant. But as a historian Lomonosov is so-so, to be honest. They had enmity regarding the intrigues of the palace and finances, and scientific arguments were only tools.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 5 January 2018 14: 17
            +8
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            But as a historian, Lomonosov is so-so, to be honest.

            But to whom, if not you, the luminary of historical sciences and the recognized authority of the world, this is not to be affirmed! Lomonosov is someone who is an ignoramus, a mediocrity and a rogue, but Miler, who edited his works so much after Lomonosov’s death that the author himself wouldn’t recognize them, is of course the authority and the last resort.
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            He left his contribution to Russian science,

            Rather, he inherited than left a mark.
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            that the ancient Rus participated in the ancient Trojan War look just childish and funny, without confirmation by any facts.

            And you, dear, have facts refuting this statement?
            1. Thunderbolt
              Thunderbolt 5 January 2018 14: 40
              10
              Quote: NEXUS
              But to whom, if not to you, the luminary of historical sciences and the recognized authority of the world, this is not to say! Lomonosov is someone who is ignorant, mediocrity and a rogue, but Miler, who edited it after death

              No need to explain and be bold, this opinion is not mine, but people for whom the history of Russia was the work of a whole life, and not a secondary direction and a hobby. In his historical works, a lot is simply unprovable (to say the least), and therefore you can simply read how fascinating tale. I repeat that as a chemist, physicist, etc. Mikhailo plowed, and historically he was very mistaken, this is called a finger in the sky.
              Quote: NEXUS
              And you, dear, have facts refuting this statement?

              Yes, I have facts !!! The ancient Rus could not participate in the Trojan War, because The ancient proto-Ukrainians took part in it and won, then there was no Rus at all! And do you have facts that refute my facts ...? NO! Means that ... protoukry participated .... NO .... means that it is necessary to search for facts confirming the statement of Lomonosov, and there are NO .... means that ....
              1. Rarog
                Rarog 11 January 2018 19: 12
                +1
                Quote: Thunderbolt
                Yes, I have facts !!! The ancient Rus could not participate in the Trojan War, because participated in it


                In that war, many tribes participated on both sides. From memory, take at least the Thracians (see their description), they may well be one of our ancestors, well, or a kindred tribe.
          2. _person_
            _person_ 7 January 2018 04: 31
            +4
            Regarding the version of history, I will take much more seriously the opinion of a person who has proved his worth in the so-called "natural" sciences. Since the results of their work are on the face, i.e. correlate with life and tested by life itself. Accordingly, historical processes are more likely to be considered by such scientists from the same objective points of view.
            History can be an exact science if the same approaches are applied to it as to life.

            Rather than "professional historians", and often just science fiction) well, they don’t own the "natural" sciences, they can be so brave that their hair stands on end.

            So it is necessary to study both those and others, but critically and draw your own conclusions.
        4. Serg koma
          Serg koma 5 January 2018 19: 46
          +4
          Quote: NEXUS
          For example, tell this to Miller, with whom Lomonosov “fought” all his life. People like Miller rewrote our history, reducing it to a thousand years (and thanks for that no less), editing and castrating it to please the West, which always experienced its inferiority and weakness, being next to Russian civilization.

          Something reminds me of what I read. what - ancient ukrov / protouk lol and the whole history of the great suburbs was rewritten to please Muscovites wassat .
          1. Antares
            Antares 6 January 2018 13: 51
            +2
            Quote: Serg Koma
            and the whole history of the great suburbs is rewritten to please

            from whom the Germans, from whom the Russians, from whom the British .. in general, someone stole and appropriated laughing
            it is standard for people.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 6 January 2018 15: 46
              +2
              "Yes, this is a crusade of the northerners against the southerners. There, in France, too, everything is ambiguous by this period. Up to the threats of separatism."
              If the whole thing was in separatism, then there would be no church. Ideology. Another sect on the basis of Manichaeism, "the world is enslaved to Satan, and in order to be saved, it is necessary to destroy the body shell." But simply suicide will not work. One must enjoy and thus kill oneself gradually. And at the same time, since the World is a defeat of the devil, then there are no moral and moral restrictions in it. Wow doctrine? Given that the adherents for their faith did not want to suffer, and therefore they lied and dodged. To expose them, the Holy Inquisition was established. That is, people are literate and knowledgeable in religion. It was necessary at first to “stab” them, and then to transfer them to secular authorities. Something like this.
        5. cannabis
          cannabis 8 January 2018 07: 56
          +3
          7526 Summer from SMZH - Creation in the Star Temple (5 508 BC)
          13026 Years from the Great Chill and (Great Cooling) (11 008 BC)
          40022 Summer from the 3rd Arrival of Whiteman of Perun (38 004 BC)
          44562 Summer from the Creation of the Great Kolo of Rasseniya (42 544 BC)
          106796 Summer from the Founding of Asgard of Iria (from 9 Taylet) (104 778 BC)
          111824 Years from the Great Migration from Daariya (109 806 BC)
          143008 Years from the period of the Three Moons (140 990 BC)
          153384 Summer from Assa Dei (151 336 BC)
          165048 Summer from Tara Time (163 030 BC)
          185784 Summer from Tula Time (183 766 BC)
          211704 Years from the Time of the Swag (209 686 BC)
          273912 Summer from Time h'Arra (271 894 to r.kh)
          460536 Summer from the Time of the Gift (458 518 BC)
          604392 Years from the Time of the Three Suns (the beginning of the Da'ari chronology) (602 374 BC)
          957526 Years from the Time of the appearance of the Gods (955 508 BC)
          1,5 billion years from the arrival on Midgard of the first Waitmars of the Great Race of the Heavenly
          1. The comment was deleted.
      2. EwgenyZ
        EwgenyZ 5 January 2018 12: 24
        26
        Quote: 210ox
        The second time I read an article. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author.

        Often "subversors of history" to the site; I think that so, after 500 years, “historians” like Samsonov will say that the Great Patriotic War was not at all a war against the invaders, but was a civil war between the ancient Rus: one Russian prince Joseph (fiction of Jewish scholars about His Georgian roots is necessary rejected with contempt, because they were invented to humiliate the dignity of Russians) attacked by another Russian prince Adolfiy Gilyarovsky (namely Gilyarovsky, the name Hitler came up with the Anglo-Saxons to enslave the Russians).
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 5 January 2018 12: 39
          10
          I think he was, Adolfiy Hitlerovich. From the Khazars.
          1. captain
            captain 5 January 2018 13: 04
            +3
            Quote: avva2012
            I think he was, Adolfiy Hitlerovich. From the Khazars.

            It is wrong about the representatives of God's chosen ones, they will strangle them completely. at all.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 5 January 2018 14: 05
              +1
              God will not betray .... Yes, and commentary in the direction of blond beasts. Let the lower jaw, as they say, kept by us, reduce.
          2. Dzungar
            Dzungar 5 January 2018 19: 33
            +4
            Kabardinians believe that Hitler was a Kabardian ... And his name was Adalbi Hitlerogov ........... And it's time to turn all this fuss with Scythian-Siberian Rus into enslaving ordinary Rus into a fun clown show. It does not deserve more
      3. captain
        captain 5 January 2018 13: 05
        +3
        Quote: 210ox
        The second time I read the article. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although of course it is impossible to say for sure. The story of this girl is the same as you turn it ...

        I recommend Gumelev, he also claims that there was no yoke. This leads to interesting calculations. "Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe".
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 5 January 2018 14: 07
          +4
          If, my memory serves me, but Gumilyov wrote that among the Russians and the Tatars some internal rhythms coincide. Ah, here with the British in our antiphase.
        2. Cartalon
          Cartalon 5 January 2018 17: 08
          +5
          Gumilyov did not come here, he would not even discuss this nonsense because he was a historian, not a science fiction.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 5 January 2018 17: 11
            +3
            I agree, historian, but a passionate push, do not recall in what units it is measured?
            1. long in stock.
              long in stock. 6 January 2018 00: 09
              +3
              in energy pendels ...
      4. Spnsr
        Spnsr 5 January 2018 15: 34
        +3
        Quote: 210ox
        The second time I read the article. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although of course it is impossible to say for sure. The story of this girl is the same as you turn it ...

        And it seems to me that the author is getting excited making peremptory statements.
        Rather, it is worthwhile to emphasize the development of territories and not to seize them, and to do this from the point of view of the penetration of civilization into open spaces that, like some in the 20th century, have not yet been mastered by civilization.
        And here the problem of Russia arises, as official history defines it, that is, it seems that the development, again not the seizure, namely, the development, of territories, as during the Russian Empire, and the USSR took place even then
        1. Spnsr
          Spnsr 5 January 2018 16: 33
          0
          I would like to emphasize that initially there was no war, but there was a movement of civilization with the development of territories. And later, a conflict arose between these territories, more precisely between the ruling houses. And somewhere the struggle for sovereignty from a great ideology started!
          As an example, one can cite the development of territories by the Romanovs and the British Empire, and by the Ottoman Empire and the confrontation between which over any territory led to its fragmentation and sovereignization
          1. Spnsr
            Spnsr 5 January 2018 23: 21
            +2
            we are talking about the fact that official history is simply somewhat rephrased, from the objective or obvious development of civilization!
            if you throw away excess slag, then such concepts that now are called Cossacks and many other peoples, named by those who are now called in the late 18th and early 20th centuries, and earlier there were the army, which in the official version they called the horde, burst into history.
            and this is a host of different origins, which can largely explain different genetics in the same nationality!
            if we look further at history, then even in official history there is such a thing as Western Slavs. and Germanization begins to occur when someone begins to treat the Slavs with neglect (English), modern technology as with ukrami!
            immediately there is a confrontation over territories, population, and as now for sales markets !!! which led to a confrontation between east and west as it is now ...
            1. Spnsr
              Spnsr 5 January 2018 23: 28
              +1
              this explains the development of civilization in the western part of Eurasia!
              the development of the eastern part of Eurasia literally took place before our eyes a little earlier, and begins in the second half of the 18th century.
      5. Dimmih
        Dimmih 5 January 2018 17: 25
        +6
        You ask the author, let him indicate several sources confirming his emissions. Moreover, sources of academic, trustworthy, preferably still foreign, but not posts in social networks and other nonsense. I’ve asked how many times I’ve never provided.
        1. Dzungar
          Dzungar 5 January 2018 19: 35
          +2
          Quote: Dimmih
          You ask the author, let him indicate several sources confirming his emissions. Moreover, sources of academic, credible,

          Unless he is an academician himself ..... Self-proclaimed and self-proclaimed
      6. evgeny68
        evgeny68 7 January 2018 15: 21
        0
        The author of course bent. Leo Gumilyov: Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe. I recommend reading. After reading this book, the author of this epic will seem to you a charlatan. And also I advise Ilyin to read about semi-education, the scourge of our time.
      7. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak 7 January 2018 22: 00
        +5
        210okv "I read the article for the second time. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although of course it is impossible to say for sure. The story of this girl is the same as you turn it .."
        Yes Yes. And there was no yoke and invasion.))) And Scythian-Russes around.))) In the process, new deliveries from the Chuy valley began))) ... even more challenging.))). And then these authors will tell us that Suvorov, Ushakov, Kutuzov and our other national heroes are traitors because they served the Germans who destroyed all the archives.))) My opinion is: 1 First, the USSR collapsed. Stalin is a criminal ayahay a bad man. Then Lenin became ill. USSR collapsed. Now digging already under the ancient history. That would ruin Russia. And that is not so and it is not that way.))) All the kings of the Germans and their minions, etc.))) Lay the mine already under our entire history. And there is no history, no people. So here is the gentlemen of the Tartararians.))) And why in Europe is not heard of an alternative story. Are they all right? Can you turn all your fervor of disclosure against our partners?))) I think people frolic on this topic from their own insanity.)))
        1. ammunition
          ammunition 8 January 2018 07: 12
          +1
          Quote: Nagaibak
          Now digging already under the ancient history. That would ruin Russia. And that is not so and it is not that way.))) All the kings of the Germans and their minions, etc.))) Lay the mine already under our entire history. And there is no history, no people. So here is the gentlemen of the Tartararians.))) And why in Europe is not heard of an alternative story. Are they all right? Can you turn all your fervor of disclosure against our partners?))) I think people frolic on this topic from their own insanity.)))

          100 (+) good
      8. ammunition
        ammunition 8 January 2018 03: 51
        +4
        Quote: 210ox
        I share the opinion of the author


        The myth of the German invasion under the leadership of Hitler Khan in Russia, in the 40 years of the 20 century. wassat
        This .. type of "internal" dismantling .. Type - the Russian princes Vlasov and Shkuro opposed the Grand Duke Joseph the Terrible.
        --------------
        What nonsense sad
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 5 January 2018 06: 47
      +9
      Quote: NEXUS
      Now, bit by bit they are restoring our history. Sewing once rich in events, and the ancient canvas of our people

      It sounds ridiculous, Andrei, People-deprived of nationality, these days. Time is the merciless Constructor of History, it (history) is like a kaleidoscope under the next ruler, another era, and it all depends on which side this Kaleidoscope is twisted, and how the "glass" will fall ... hi
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 5 January 2018 06: 50
        +3
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        Sounds ridiculous, Andrei, People-deprived of nationality, these days

        Oh ... let’s take a look ... What, for example, do you know about Rasputin? Pugachev? Catherine? Well, it’s very interesting to listen to what is generally known about the time before princes and boyars ...
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 5 January 2018 06: 56
          +8
          Quote: NEXUS
          Oh ... let’s take a look ... What, for example, do you know about Rasputin? Pugachev? Catherine? Well, it’s very interesting to listen to what is generally known about the time before princes and boyars ...
          I know, only what they let me know in my time, the question is what they knew about it 100 years ago, and what they will know 100 years after our time ... - I'm sure it will be different "knowledge".
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 5 January 2018 07: 01
            +4
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            I know, only what they let me know in my time, the question is what they knew about it 100 years ago, and what they will know 100 years after our time ... - I'm sure it will be different "knowledge".

            And you, the namesake, are sure that your knowledge, or the knowledge of Lieutenant Teterin, is correct? What kind of knowledge is it and who taught it to you? I mean, to say that it all started only 100 years ago is ridiculous, as well as the statement that there was neither Tartaria nor Gardarika ... of course our history is only 1000 years old. wassat But the Slavic ethnic group in the world is one of the most numerous. Can you tell me why?
            1. Andrey Yuryevich
              Andrey Yuryevich 5 January 2018 07: 06
              +7
              Quote: NEXUS
              And you, the namesake, are sure that your knowledge, or the knowledge of Lieutenant Teterin, is correct?

              no, I’m not sure, that’s what I mean, and I say that the History-tinder is rumpled, twisted ... it was, it is, it will be. therefore, humanity knows about itself, it is so negligible, although HIM (they say) hundreds of thousands of years, IT only “remembers” itself “from the Nativity of Christ” .... why? Where has the story gone ???
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 5 January 2018 07: 16
                +3
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                IT "remembers" itself only "from the Nativity of Christ" .... why?

                Apparently before the Baptism of Russia, not Slavs with their culture, writing, originality and history lived on this territory, but monkeys sitting on palm trees. Only now apparently the same Arkaim was built by Western masters ... they came and showed us unreasonable how to. wassat
                1. Weyland
                  Weyland 5 January 2018 12: 19
                  +5
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  here, apparently, the same Arkaim was built by Western masters.

                  Only the builders of Arkaim, according to Klesov, were the Indo-Aryans - i.e. they went not to the West, but to the south - to India ...
                  1. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 5 January 2018 14: 28
                    +2
                    Quote: Weyland
                    Only the builders of Arkaim, according to Klesov, were the Indo-Aryans - i.e. they went not to the West, but to the south - to India ...

                    And why are you so modestly silent about the fact that there are already three versions, and not one, as you write here?
                    There is still a debate among scientists about the ownership of monuments of this type. There are three main versions of the origin of these:

                    local substrate theory
                    the theory of the Middle East origin of Sintashta (S. A. Grigoriev) [source not specified 309 days];
                    the theory of migrations from the west, the cause of which was the collapse of the Circumpontian metallurgical province - this theory is supported by the bulk of researchers

                    At present, there is not enough data to unequivocally say whether the “Sintashtins” were Indo-Iranians or already Iranians.
                    1. Andrey Yuryevich
                      Andrey Yuryevich 5 January 2018 16: 01
                      +1
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      And why are you so modestly silent about the fact that there are already three versions, and not one, as you write here?

                      here's Andrey, and History ....
              2. Hey
                Hey 5 January 2018 11: 17
                +3
                IT "remembers" itself only "from the Nativity of Christ" .... why? Where has the story gone ???

                Look at the root of the word - history.
                Of(with) - tori(and I)
                draw conclusions.
                Just some fought, built the state. And others quietly quietly wrote what their people needed.
            2. Andrey Yuryevich
              Andrey Yuryevich 5 January 2018 07: 15
              +6
              Quote: NEXUS
              But the Slavic ethnic group in the world is one of the most numerous. Can you tell me why?

              Seriously? Andrei, this is also Your knowledge, from those Textbooks that you used that were printed in our time, and in no case are Dogma or Truth in the Last Instruction, this is just another interpretation of the next “historians” in a certain section Time. that's all. Note: the Germans have their own History, the Chinese have their own, their books on which they teach this History, and undoubtedly, they also consider themselves Greatest, Ancient, and so on ... so where is the True History ??? REAL? answer: nowhere. There is no Common Understanding.
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 5 January 2018 07: 21
                +5
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                Seriously?

                Absolutely ... see for yourself if you doubt ... doubt, this is the path to enlightenment, the namesake.
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                Andrei, this is also Your knowledge, from those Textbooks that you used that were printed in our time, and in no case are Dogma or Truth in the Last Instruction, this is just another interpretation of the next “historians” in a certain section Time. that's all

                In addition to traditional history, I also studied an alternative that has its own facts and arguments, refuting the fact that we are fed buckets.
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                Note: the Germans have their own History, the Chinese have their own, their books on which they teach this History, and undoubtedly, they also consider themselves the Greatest, Ancient, and so on ...

                There are two ways to exalt yourself in relation to others ... the first is to create and defend true values, and the second is to belittle the merits, to depersonalize the story of those standing nearby in order to look higher against their background.
                Tell me, the history of which civilization the Slavs belittle or rewrite?
              2. SOF
                SOF 5 January 2018 15: 16
                +3
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                so where is the true story ??? REAL? answer: nowhere. There is no Common Understanding.

                Well, after all, we are in the 21st century, isn't it? You can search for other sources. For example, a kinetic story. Find out for yourself that there are “haplogroups”, and then try to understand why the Middle Russians have short codes and the Western Europeans long ones, taking into account the mutation period of 300-400 years, when a dopik is added to the code. Why, for example, the higher castes of Indians have a light skin color, they are similar to us in DNA code, but, for the greater length of the code, they are our descendants ... It’s interesting somehow it turns out that Mahenjadaro was destroyed by nuclear weapons, but its former inhabitants look like us, both externally and genetically. This is bad luck, although Arkaim fits amazingly into it.
                1. Dzungar
                  Dzungar 5 January 2018 19: 42
                  +1
                  Here’s your Klesov ..... He’s not at all the one you take him for .... I don’t understand why in one place you completely reject the West, and in another place you unconditionally accept and take some information from the West on faith
                  1. SOF
                    SOF 5 January 2018 20: 13
                    +3
                    Quote: Dzungar
                    Here is your Klesov.

                    ... what does Klesov have to do with it? Did I say something about him?
                    Or do you deny the fact of the presence of DNA chains and their difference in people of different nationalities? And then, why should I attribute the ideas of eugenics? We're talking about history, aren't we? Or should we not use this method of studying the movement of human flows by default? So as not to know what is superfluous ??? :) There is no dear dunganen (?), You can’t hide an awl in a bag. Over time, it will certainly come out.
                    1. Dzungar
                      Dzungar 6 January 2018 09: 15
                      +2
                      But didn’t Klesov introduce the term DNA genealogy ...? Isn't the term Haplogroup his invention ...?
                  2. Operator
                    Operator 5 January 2018 20: 48
                    0
                    Quote: Dzungar
                    your klesov

                    Suspicious eugenics and objective genealogy are two completely different things.

                    Any cellular biological species on Earth is so arranged that it carries the apparatus of heredity - a chain of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA). In chains there are sections that encode species characteristics (called genes), but there are simply informational sections (called haplotype tags).

                    Since DNA genealogy deals exclusively with informational DNA sections, it does not concern eugenics with any side - a teaching that connects (correctly or incorrectly) the level of development of people with coding DNA sections.

                    Anyone who claims the opposite is a complete ignoramus in DNA or a malicious liar.
            3. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 5 January 2018 07: 18
              25
              Quote: NEXUS
              Lieutenant Teterina true? M. What kind of knowledge is it and who taught it to you?

              Dear Nexus, this knowledge has been taught by generations (!) Of historians working with Russian and foreign written sources, with materials from archaeological finds, and with the results of philological research. Conclusions about the Mongol invasion were made after the labor of thousands of people for about a century and a half. And here are a dozen lovers who have never even stood in the excavation site and the banal broken shard in their hands did not take the boldness to say that they say, "everything was wrong, everyone lies, and we know the Truth."
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 5 January 2018 07: 28
                11
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                Dear Nexus, this knowledge has been taught by generations (!) Of historical scholars working with Russian and foreign written sources,

                Uti ways ... Miller do you consider the source? Very funny. And where did the historical works of Lomonosov after his death not tell?
                What generations are you talking about? What do you know about the life of the Slavs before Baptism, to princes and boyars. Who was Rurik? Can you answer?
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                Conclusions about the Mongol invasion were made after the labor of thousands of people for about a century and a half.

                Oh, how ... I will tell you that no less work was done to explain that Iga was not from the word at all. Only it is more convenient for you to think that it was, because they taught you so at school.
                You know, when Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for heresy about the round Earth, thousands of works were written before him that the Earth was flat. What's next?
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 5 January 2018 08: 34
                  +8
                  Giordano was not burned for this. Satanist, sodomy, spy. Copernicus claimed the same thing and nothing, he was not touched with a finger. Moreover, the fact that the Earth is round is known from ancient times and this knowledge was not hidden behind seven seals.
                  1. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 5 January 2018 08: 37
                    +6
                    Quote: avva2012
                    In addition, the fact that the Earth is round is known from ancient times and this knowledge was not hidden behind seven seals.

                    You tell the Catholic Church with the Inquisition. Or didn’t they burn at the bonfires of dissenters?
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 5 January 2018 09: 02
                      +5
                      Burned. We started with the Albigensians, if I am not mistaken. You are not interested in their ideology? Those are also movers. In addition, there is a theory that is much more plausible than the Samsonian theory of the Inquisition, beads (thanks to Werner for the term) were drawn by Protestants led by the Church of England. I do not condone the Inquisition, but its appearance was vital at that time. The acre of the Albigensians in Europe at that time, mysticism spread, something similar to the “Battle of psychics,” but not so funny. The recipe for ointment for the flight did not read or the ritual of the black mass? And, in your opinion, the Catholic Church and the authorities should have looked at such "pranks"?
                      1. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 5 January 2018 09: 12
                        +7
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And, in your opinion, the Catholic Church and the authorities should have looked at such "pranks"?

                        And you do not tell how many works and historical documents are now gathering dust in the Vatican, hidden from the public?
                      2. verner1967
                        verner1967 5 January 2018 09: 46
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        I do not condone the Inquisition, but its appearance was vital at that time.

                        this is an excuse, but I agree with you on this, for certain periods of time, such organizations as the Inquisition, Oprichniks, OGPU-NKVD, despite their brutal methods, are even useful to society in order to prevent the spread of obscurantism like
                        Quote: avva2012
                        ointments for the flight did not read or the ritual of the black mass

                        but, I repeat, only for a certain period of time.
                      3. Antares
                        Antares 6 January 2018 14: 02
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Started with the Albigensians,

                        yes this is a crusade of northerners against southerners. There, in France, too, everything is ambiguous by this period. Up to the threats of separatism.
                        As for the attitude of the Inquisition, these are “political executions”. Of the striking examples is a certain Jeanne.
                        As for scientists, the church itself was engaged in science. For example, in good relations with the same Galileo was. Although they claim that something was forbidden to him, they arrested him, but there were only conversations with him about his theories. But the excesses were of course.
                        A "political burning" -so everyone had it. In Russia, Old Believers burned (and burned), Jews / Moriski in Spain, Protestants in Holland, Huguenots in France, etc.
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 5 January 2018 09: 17
                      +6
                      Some "works" cannot be shown, so as not to embarrass these little ones. On the other hand, it is also contraindicated to destroy them, because heresy requires study and classification. Moreover, nothing is new under the moon.
                  2. verner1967
                    verner1967 5 January 2018 09: 59
                    +2
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Giordano was not burned for this. Satanist, sodomy, spy.

                    Yes, Giordano was burned not for the form of the earth, but for heretics:
                    I heard many times from Giordano Bruno Nolanza when he spoke with him that when Catholics say that bread is being transformed into the body, then this is great absurdity; that he is the enemy of poverty, that he does not like any religion; that Christ was a deceiver and deceived to seduce the people - and therefore could easily foresee that he would be hanged; that he does not see the difference of persons in the deity and this would mean the imperfection of God; that the world is eternal and there are endless worlds ...
                    From the denunciation to D. Bruno
                    Has he affirmed, indeed acknowledged, or now recognizes and believes in the Trinity, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, one in the being? ..
                    He answered: “Speaking in Christianity, according to the theology and everything that every true Christian and Catholic should believe in, I really doubted the name of the Son of God and the Holy Spirit ... for, according to St. Augustine, this term is not ancient, but a new one that arose in his time. I kept this view from the age of eighteen to the present
                    from the materials of the investigation of the Venice Inquisition, i.e. they condemned him, after all, for heretical statements, and not for espionage and sodomism.
                  3. SOF
                    SOF 5 January 2018 19: 01
                    +3
                    Quote: avva2012
                    In addition, the fact that the Earth is round is known from ancient times and this knowledge was not hidden behind seven seals.

                    Were hidden, were. And then their political strategists hid them from the Inquisition ... at those who came up with Mallēus Maleficārum, like our story. Or maybe Bartholomew’s night or a witch-hunt still fades before Ivan the Terrible’s “atrocities,” how did you get this out of the pages of history?
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 5 January 2018 19: 09
                      +1
                      The problem is that you interfere with politics. And you take incompatible times. With this approach, any owl, jumping, will fit into any globe without any problems.
                      1. SOF
                        SOF 5 January 2018 20: 22
                        +2
                        Quote: avva2012
                        The problem is that you interfere with politics.

                        Yes, not in life ...
                        You are pushing for such arguments in view of the fact that you are citing the arguments of those who have been repeatedly caught in a lie. What story are you talking about?
                        Now, in the age of the Internet, even half of the globe is confident that a star-striped flag, rather than a red banner, developed over the Reichstag in May 45th. And in the Middle Ages, of course, this could not be ????
                        ...do not make me laugh...
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 5 January 2018 20: 46
                      +2
                      Yes, that you all refer to the Internet? Whom did you personally catch in a lie? There is a history of a great country. Built by our ancestors and the Red Banner over the Reichstag, was set up by those who taught history from Soviet textbooks in the classic Miller interpretation. And nothing, somehow won. And, here we are for 25 years, it’s not clear what we are doing, we are studying this substance even before victory in anything, to us, like to Shanghai on four wheels. It’s ridiculous to laugh.
                2. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 5 January 2018 11: 05
                  15
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Do you consider Miller a source?

                  Dear, you do not leave the topic of the dispute. Your hatred of Miller (apparently because of his German origin) has nothing to do with the topic of the article. This is a study of the Mongol-Tatar yoke. My (like all educated people) sources are:
                  - such Russian historians as N.M. Karamzin, N.I. Kostomarov, V.V. Leontovich, N.P. Zagoskin, V.I. Sergeevich, I. Engelman, V.A. Ryazanovsky, S.M. Soloviev, V.O. Klyuchevsky, S.F. Platonov, E.F. Shmurlo, M.N. Pokrovsky, D.I. Bagaley, M.F. Vladimirsky-Budanov, M.A. Dyakonov and many others;
                  -Chinese chronicles "Yuan Shi", which also contains material on the Mongolian military campaigns in Russia and the chronicle "Shen-woo chin-zheng Lu" ("Description of personal campaigns of the holy-warlike [Emperor Chinggis]:
                  -Labors of Orientalists P.S. Savelyeva and G.S. Sablukova.
                  And this is not counting the many museum exhibits that are the work of a whole galaxy of archaeologists.
                  Are you going to blame everything on poor Miller again and say that all the people I listed wrote a lie? In your opinion, will it be that "the spirit of the villain Miller has infused these people with the insidious libel of the evil Freemasons to slander the millions of years of the history of the Aryan race"?

                  Quote: NEXUS
                  no less work was done to explain that Iga was not from the word at all.

                  Well, we know the authors of such "works": Fomenko, Nosovsky, Sklyarov, Kungurov and a lot of impostors.
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  You know, when Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for heresy about the round Earth

                  Here it is not necessary to distort the story, please. Bruno was burned for outright Satanism. And, if you were at least partially familiar with the rituals for which he was burned, you would have signed the sentence of the inquisitors ...
                  1. SOF
                    SOF 5 January 2018 19: 10
                    +4
                    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                    And, if you were at least partially familiar with the rituals for which he was burned, you would have signed the sentence of the inquisitors.

                    ... what an undisguised loyalty :)
                    But tell me, if you were thrown into the water with your hands and feet tied in the expectation that if you are not a witcher, then you will emerge, then you still floated out !? :)
                    And who are the Templars ??? Satanists or warriors of the Lord ???
                    Do not you think that the body that has so many times compromised itself is not the ultimate truth and to believe that it was obtained through the “iron maiden” is, at least, stupid?
                    1. long in stock.
                      long in stock. 6 January 2018 00: 13
                      +2
                      and the Templars did stupidity .. they became richer than the king of France .. by the way, by haplogroups are they also Russians?
                3. Weyland
                  Weyland 5 January 2018 12: 23
                  +3
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  when Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for heresy about the round Earth,

                  You know, the Tordesillas Treaty, which proceeded from the theory of the spherical Earth, was signed yes 106 years before the burning of Bruno. And the expedition of Magellan, who proved this theory, ended 78 years before the burning of Bruno. And they didn’t even burn it for the theory of the multiplicity of inhabited worlds (such theories existed in ancient times), but for the statement that each alien civilization was created by its own separate god!
                  1. Town Hall
                    Town Hall 5 January 2018 12: 29
                    +4
                    Quote: Weyland
                    You know




                    Does not know....
              2. Boris55
                Boris55 5 January 2018 09: 23
                +1
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                And here are a dozen lovers,

                Let me remind you. Titinik was built by scientists, and Noah's ark is an amateur. The atomic bomb was invented by the smart, and the Obninsk NPP by the intelligent.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 5 January 2018 09: 55
                  14
                  Classics of the genre. good Compare the Titanic and Noah's Ark. In an alternative story, everything is held together by similar iron logic.
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 5 January 2018 11: 45
                    +8
                    Dear, you don’t confuse the warm with the soft)) Noah’s ark was not built by an amateur, but by a person directed by the Almighty, and this is much stronger than an amateur.
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 5 January 2018 13: 23
                      0
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      Dear, you are warm and soft do not confuse))

                      But let’s say the feather bed cannot be warm and soft? laughing
                      The lover is ruled by the will of God, he does everything with all his heart, and money from the devil rules the professional. An amateur does not know how and therefore makes many mistakes, but he knows exactly why, and a professional knows how, but does not know exactly why.
                      1. BMP-2
                        BMP-2 5 January 2018 13: 45
                        +3
                        Boris, I think Poruchik says that not everything warm is feather-bed, and not every feather-bed is soft. The difference between a professional and an amateur lies in attention to detail: the amateur does not notice them, and the professional takes into account those that determine the result. Well, about the one who rules whom: I think Einstein would be very surprised to learn that by this definition he refers to lovers laughing .
                      2. Boris55
                        Boris55 5 January 2018 14: 50
                        +1
                        Quote: BMP-2
                        Einstein would be very surprised to learn that by this definition he refers to lovers

                        If Einstein knew why he wanted to make a bomb - he would be an amateur, and so, for grandmas - he is a professional. There is a lot of mind (stolen), reason - 0. laughing
                      3. Dzungar
                        Dzungar 5 January 2018 19: 54
                        +2
                        Perina CANNOT be warm .... She can well retain heat, which she does not emit, unfortunately ..... Why do I have to explain common truths ...?
                2. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 5 January 2018 21: 30
                  +3
                  Quote: Boris55
                  Let me remind you. Titinik was built by scientists,

                  The Titanic, unambiguously, was designed by engineers. And Titinik - what kind of animal is this?
                  Quote: Boris55
                  and Noah’s ark is an amateur.

                  So, first you need to prove that that Noah, in general, had a place to be! lol Although ... if we assume that Kolobok is a real historical character, then there is no sense in refusing Noah in reality !!! wassat laughing
                  Quote: Boris55
                  The smart bomb came up with

                  Undoubtedly!
                  Quote: Boris55
                  and Obninsk NPP is reasonable.

                  Phew! Directly feel better! Reptiloids from Nibiru, nevertheless, it turns out, exist! laughing
              3. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 7 January 2018 22: 04
                +2
                Lieutenant Teterin "And then there are a dozen lovers who have never even stood in the excavation and the banal broken shard in their hands do not take the boldness of saying that" everything was wrong, everyone lies, and we know the Truth. "
                Usually I do not agree with you.))) In matters of civil war, mainly. But, bravo here !!!
      2. Cat
        Cat 5 January 2018 07: 54
        14
        Quote: Andrey Yuryevich
        People-deprived of nationality, these days.

        The words are beautiful, but are they true?
        I am Russian, with a touch of blood, but Russian. At least I can track my ancestors through my father up to 7 generations, and my mother up to 5. There is a mistake of the Cossack’s great-grandfather who took my great-grandmother from the Chuvash as his wife, well, I think this is not fatal.
        I speak and think in Russian. Although it differs from the main dialects of the Great Russian, it is not my fault - since I am a native of the “Gamayunschina” - a descendant of the serfs Prince Ramodanov, who were bought in bulk by N.N. Demidov in Kaluga County and relocated to Kamen. So, I and another 300 descendants of the "hamayuns" speak their own dialect, which does not fit into the harmonious schemes of philologists. Although sometimes “picnickers” have sadness, since the number of anarchisms in the vocabulary of hamayuns is an order of magnitude higher than that of an average-static resident of Russia. Dahl's dictionary to help them.
        I live in Russia. If the Ural Mountains is not Russia for someone, then I personally will come "in a slipper on ....... u." I think this is not disputed.
        I can continue further, but I think that this is enough to say in the affirmative - by blood, by soil, by language - I am Russian. Yes, let it be with flaws (the great-grandmother is to blame, but NN Demidov cannot be blasphemed like two and a quarter centuries on the graveyard), but I am Russian and somehow do not observe "your deprived people of my nationality"! Perhaps they haven’t come to the mountain yet, but don’t worry, we will calculate them and send them back!
        Time is the merciless Constructor of History, it (history) is like a kaleidoscope under the next ruler, another era, and it all depends on which side this Kaleidoscope is twisted, and how the "glass" will fall ...

        My applause! It’s better not to say, but “glass” - if they are people, sometimes “do not bend”. We had such a smart guy, an ethmologist - a philologist who at the beginning of the last century tried to explain the toponomics of the Serginsko-Ufaleysky Gornozavodsky Okrug. It's just that all the names are "Russified": the river Serga is named - Earring, Mount Scholm in the Hill, etc. "Glass" did not bend and everything remained as it is. The second attempt occurred in the years 80-90 when they carried out a topographic survey of the area as if under carbon copy, only half a kilometer Hill Hill, was called the sonorous name of Nizhne-Serginskaya. It got to the point that tickets at the box office sold to the Lower or Upper Earrings, instead of Earrings. Quietly corrected this too.
        So "glass" - "glass" is different. People like them can twist the “history kaledoscope" themselves so that a century later we’ll guess whose bones they dug up under Ganina Yama. hi
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 5 January 2018 10: 11
          +3
          [quote] [quote = Cattle] [quote = Cattle] Words are beautiful, but are they true?
          I am Russian, mixed with blood, but Russian. [/ Quote] [/ quote] [b] [/ b]
          no Dear ... now you are a “Russian”, look at your passport.
          1. Cat
            Cat 5 January 2018 15: 15
            +4
            I will disappoint you, except for the passport, where there is no column of nationality. There are a number of accounting documents, so I list them as "Russian"!
          2. Boris55
            Boris55 5 January 2018 15: 50
            +6
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            no Dear ... now you are a “Russian”, look at your passport.

            They’re not beating on the passport, they are beating on the face laughing
            And can you give a definition of who the Russians are?
            1. Cat
              Cat 5 January 2018 17: 47
              +5
              And in slippers?
              The Old Russian state has always been multinational. Even the "mythical" Rurik was called to the table: chud, slovenia and izher. And chud in the first place, and the Slovenes in the second. What is it for?
              Now I propose to cut out a map of Kievan Rus and apply it to the modern map of the Russian Federation or the Russian Empire of the 1913 model. Do you think our ancestors particularly bothered with the "choice of brides" or purity of blood? In the Urals, before the century before last, the church elite struggled with cases of weddings in fact. When a free Siberian people led his brides to get married, not only with a “belly”, but also with two or three little boys already at home in the shops. And what can I say, when they got from the capital to Okhotsk for a year. About the USSR, you can keep silent. What do you think if a garny crest and a black-browed Moldovan woman of what nationality were their children married? 90% are Russians!
              So the words of Nicholas I, for me, is another stroke for self-awareness of myself and a special pride in my own - RUSSIAN ROOTS.
              Now you can go into the corridor and start to wash your slippers with a displeased look!
          3. Spnsr
            Spnsr 5 January 2018 18: 43
            +4
            [quote = Andrey Yuryevich] [quote] [quote = Kotische] [quote = Kotische] Words are beautiful, but is there any truth to them?
            I am Russian, mixed with blood, but Russian. [/ Quote] [/ quote] [b] [/ b]
            no Dear ... now you are a "Russian", look in your passport. [/ quote]
            You will excuse me for my insertion into your dialogue, but, Russian is the same as the Russian in today's day, and most importantly there is no blood impurity here and there cannot be! Either you are, even if you are a German even a Tatar, I won’t list all of today's Russians, or you don’t! ...
            1. Cat
              Cat 7 January 2018 08: 16
              +1
              In fact, for the layman, the judgments are more than true! No offense, but there is such a science: the theory of state and law. Which just studies the place of the individual and his role in the state system. In this connection, the concepts: ethnos, nationality and people have different contents, not only semantic but also legal. Let's sort it out on the fingers. If we take the concept of ethnos for “analysis”, then we get a certain cultural and social community — part of one nationality distinguished by territorial or other characteristics. For example: Krasnoufimskie Tatars or my favorite hamayuns. On the whole, this does not prevent the former from remaining Tatars, and the latter from Russians.
              Now about nationalities, the main sign of having your own language. Although there are small nuances? What language do Kazan, Ural, Siberian and Crimean Tatars speak. Naturally in Tatar. But practice shows that the average statistical Kazan Tatar with his Crimean counterpart will speak ... Russian. So do not twist, and these are different nations. From the court and the desire of Kazantsev to identify himself more with the Bulgars.
              Now about the people! People, the concept is not abstract, but legal, and a priori provides for the inhabitants of one country. So the pearl "the peoples of Russia" is precisely the pearl, illiterate people. But the thesis is the “multinational people of Russia” definition is more than true and accurate. The term "people" is directly tied to the individual belonging to the state and, depending on the form and type, can be expressed as "nationality" or "citizenship". For example, a subject of the Russian Empire.
              So in connection with the exercise in the USSR, the columns nationality in the passport reflects belonging to the state. Namely a citizen of the Russian Federation. Alas, the phrase "Russian" you will not find in it.
              And so we get the bottom line: most of us have their own belonging to a particular ethnic group, nationality and people.
              Example: Lower Serginsky hamayun - Russian - citizen of the Russian Federation, or
              Old Bukhara Mordvin - Mordvin - a citizen of the Russian Federation. That in general, the term - Russian defines membership in a people, not a nation.
              1. Spnsr
                Spnsr 7 January 2018 17: 38
                +2
                Quote: Kotischa
                that in general the term - Russian defines membership in a people, not a nation.

                You probably just did not catch the essence of what was said, in which a place similar to a citizen of the Russian Federation was allotted for the Russian of that time.
                And the qualifications that you bring, their beginning no earlier than the end of the 18th century
        2. Dzungar
          Dzungar 5 January 2018 19: 59
          +1
          Quote: Kotischa
          I’ll personally come and "in a sneaker on ....... u."

          Well, dear, in sneakers sr..y this is the lot of cats ..... You are a person, and even figuratively for you it is unworthy ....
          1. Cat
            Cat 6 January 2018 08: 31
            +3
            I’m from the bottom of my heart! wassat
      3. Dzungar
        Dzungar 5 January 2018 19: 37
        +2
        They are no better than the fooled dill ..... They laugh at them, and at the same time, the same thing happens to them
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 5 January 2018 07: 01
      23
      Quote: NEXUS
      Now, bit by bit restore our history.

      Do you consider THIS
      The Russian superethnos (Russ) has existed from the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has at least 40 - 45 thousand years.
      history ?! belay
      Or that:
      . In the forest-steppe zone of Eurasia from the Caucasus and the Black Sea to Altai and Sayanincluding Inner Mongolialived at that time late russians of the Scythian-Siberian world
      Where are the traces of these mighty Russ cities, roads, engineering structures? A-no them. Generally. Like burial grounds and genetic traces in those areas among local peoples.
      If they were so powerful, how then
      part of the Rus was assimilated by the late Mongol and Turkic peoples, giving them khanate, princely and noble families.
      ? Where is the logic?
      And this
      Horde (from russ. "Kind"-" horde, ordnung")
      -In general, beauty!
      I join in my piggy bank to the famous
      Batu-Dad
      Mom mom
      yes
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 5 January 2018 07: 11
        +8
        Quote: Olgovich
        Do you consider THIS
        The Russian superethnos (Russ) has existed from the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has at least 40 - 45 thousand years.
        history ?!

        Do you have other information? So voice it ... At the same time, explain why the Slavic ethnic group is one of the most numerous in the world.
        Quote: Olgovich
        Where are the traces of these mighty Russ cities, roads, engineering structures? Oh no them

        Seriously? Definitely not? wassat So offhand ... Arkaim ... what do you know about him? And in the Crimea dolmens apparently themselves grew. I'm not talking about the fact that the writing of the Etruscans is very similar to the ancient Slavic writing. Apparently quite by accident. wassat Well, about Tartaria, I think you haven’t heard anything at all.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 5 January 2018 07: 29
          14
          Quote: NEXUS
          Do you have other information? So voice her

          This is not information, but a fairy tale. And such "information", i.e. tales of a million.
          Quote: NEXUS
          Seriously? Definitely not? So offhand ... Arkaim ... what do you know about him?

          NO! Arkaim is the 20th century BC, the invasion is the 13th century AD. Where the mighty Rus hid 3 millennia?. Where are their cities, countries, etc.?
          And Arkaim is the URAL, and not inner Mongolia and Altai, where the Russians ruled (according to the author).
          WHERE are the traces of their 3 thousand-year-old activity: only .... horde-ordnung? Or Batu-Dad? laughing With mom mom? lol
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 5 January 2018 07: 34
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich
            NO! Arkaim - 20th century BC

            25th century approximately ... where 5 centuries were written off?
            Quote: Olgovich
            Where were the mighty Rus hiding for 3 millennia ?. Where are their cities, countries, etc.?

            So read about Tartaria and you will be happy ... wassat You are referring to Western authoritative historians, so take a look at the Great British Encyclopedia of the 19th century, where a map of Tartaria and explanations are shown in black and white, what and how ...
            Quote: Olgovich
            And Arkaim is the URAL, and not inner Mongolia and Altai, where the Russians ruled (according to the author).

            And Crimean dolmens, it seems to you, Crimean Tatars erected 10 thousand years ago. wassat
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 5 January 2018 07: 49
              13
              Quote: NEXUS
              25th century approximately ... where 5 centuries were written off?

              The 25th century ... At least the 30th.
              Quote: NEXUS
              read about Tartaria and you will be happy

              Quote: NEXUS
              So read about Tartaria and you will be happy ..

              Present CITIES, DAMS, ROADS for three thousand years of Russ activity from the Pacific Ocean to Europe. Ancient Rome existed much less and its similar traces are everywhere and everywhere. You have nothing.
              Quote: NEXUS
              And Crimean dolmens, it seems to you, Crimean Tatars erected 10 thousand years ago.

              No, the Koreans! yes For in Korea, most of all dolmens. And in North Africa, by the way. Or .... and this is all-RUSSIAN zabatsatsya ?! belay request
              I begin to guess who Jesus was by nationality and who dug up the World Ocean! yes (To be continued, it follows)
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 5 January 2018 08: 04
                +6
                Quote: Olgovich
                Present CITIES, DAMS, ROADS for three thousand years of Russ activity from the Pacific Ocean to Europe.

                Well, since you are too lazy to look, and it’s easier to put up with the fact that there is no other story than the one you stuffed into your head, if you please ..

                And here is the link from the foreign wiki ... https: //commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: Wi
                tsen _-_ Tartaria.jpg

                Quote: Olgovich
                You have nothing.

                wassat Of course, from where? wassat And in Nikolai Witsen, in 1705, too, there was absolutely nothing, and he wrote every heresy to the Portuguese National Library, and even drew a map. wassat
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 5 January 2018 09: 08
                  14
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Well, since you are too lazy to look, and it’s easier to put up with the fact that there is no other story than the one you stuffed into your head, if you please ..

                  Yes, we know, we know these "cards". Kindly from the same series:
                  hi
                  1. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 5 January 2018 10: 28
                    +8
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Yes, we know, we know these "cards". Kindly from the same series:

                    No need to juggle, dear. You asked for cities, roads and dams ... I showed you the maps, not crap with the zoo. Moreover, not from our encyclopedia. And these are documents confirmed, that is, Tartaria is not a distant land on elephants and whales. And since you have nothing to cover, you are posting stupid drawings here.
                    1. Lieutenant Teterin
                      Lieutenant Teterin 5 January 2018 11: 34
                      12
                      I already wrote about this once, apparently, I have to repeat it. Tartaria is the European name for the Horde. According to the norms of that time, tributary states that paid tribute were recognized as part of the state to which they paid. Equating to vassals. From here on the European maps they drew a huge “Tataria” —the Tatar Horde, together with tributaries.
                      1. BMP-2
                        BMP-2 5 January 2018 13: 52
                        +4
                        Human memory is a strange thing
                        it seems to be there, but it seems to be gone. laughing

                        A person is mostly inclined to remember only that which corresponds to his picture of the world. request I think that I will have to repeat more and more ...
                    2. long in stock.
                      long in stock. 6 January 2018 00: 18
                      +4
                      I’ve seen a map here. It was written that the people here live here. Where are they? and to which haplogroup of Russ did they belong?
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 7 January 2018 08: 42
                        +2
                        Quote: HanTengri
                        It's funny to look at yourself in the mirror, isn't it, Olgovich? You may ask: what is common? In general - strange voices in the head, spewing out streams of information, without the slightest hint of a material source.

                        Leave me alone, man! You have already been so many times .., and you, again and again, are being imposed and bothering .... Neither pride, nor anything.
                        I DO NOT READ You: a notification about the answer is displayed, I open, thinking that there is an interesting interlocutor, and there is a lover of mat and gu-ana. Phew! No.
                        Spare me, my dear. person: click on the "quote" button rather than the "Reply" and-and exercise. yes
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 6 January 2018 06: 38
                      +5
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      You asked for cities, roads and dams ... I told you cards showed, not crap with the zoo

                      That's it, I asked for "cities, roads, dams." Have you shown the daub 18 century about Tartaria in ... territory Of Russia under Peter I fool
                      1. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 6 January 2018 20: 06
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        You asked for cities, roads and dams ... I showed you maps, not crap with a zoo
                        That's it, I asked for "cities, roads, dams." lol And you showed the daub of the 18 century about Tartaria on ... the territory of Russia under PETER I laughing

                        It's funny to look at yourself in the mirror, isn't it, Olgovich? You may ask: what is common? lol In general - strange voices in the head, spewing out streams of information, without the slightest hint of the material source thereof. laughing
              2. Dzungar
                Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 06
                +3
                laughing laughing laughing I can’t observe the answers to this “comrade” for you differently ... JUST RJU !!!
              3. Dzungar
                Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 10
                +1
                The author of these opuses very quickly rivets them ... And, as I understand it, taking into account all of our comments .... Right now I get to know them .... laughing
          2. venaya
            venaya 5 January 2018 11: 45
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            Arkaim - 20th century BC, the invasion - 13th century AD. Where were the mighty Rus hiding for 3 millennia ?. Where are their cities, countries, etc.?

            Even now there is such a city as Samara, before there was also the city of Arkona, summarize: Samara + Arkona = Samarkand, and it is officially 2400 years old (then there were no Uzbeks yet, and people spoke a dialect of the Russian language still called Farsi there. Maybe they didn’t hear?) Give more examples? After all, there is not enough space on the site.
            1. alatanas
              alatanas 5 January 2018 12: 30
              10
              Farsi - Russian dialect ?! laughing starved!
              1. BMP-2
                BMP-2 5 January 2018 13: 53
                +8
                There is an initial heresy in the short, but wondrous time! laughing
              2. Cat
                Cat 5 January 2018 14: 47
                +9
                Farsi is a dialect of Russian ....

                Doctor, we lose him!
                1. venaya
                  venaya 5 January 2018 20: 31
                  +2
                  Quote: Kotischa
                  Farsi is a dialect of Russian..

                  Let me remind you that almost all of today's languages ​​are actually dialects of the Russian language, only its very ancient form. Any questions? By the way, about the Persian empire, maybe someone knows when and where and with what genetics the ancient Persians came to the territory of modern Iran, otherwise the local level of knowledge is striking in its baseboard level. It is necessary to rise in the level of one’s education, naturally, if not too late. According to linguists, the coincidence in root words with modern Russian is 36%, which completely coincides with theories of the divergence of languages ​​in time. Is this also not known?
                  1. karish
                    karish 5 January 2018 20: 42
                    +4
                    Quote: venaya
                    Let me remind you that almost all of today's languages ​​are actually dialects of the Russian language, only its very ancient form. Any questions?

                    Yes !!!!
                    Dialect (Greek. Διάλεκτος - "dialect" from the Greek. Διαλέγομαι - "speak, speak") - a kind of language that is used as a means of communication between people connected by one territory. A dialect is a full-fledged system of verbal communication (oral or symbolic, ..

                    Quote: venaya
                    By the way about the Persian empire, maybe someone knows when and where and with what genetics the ancient Persians came to the territory of modern Iran, and then the local level of knowledge is striking in its baseboard level.

                    This is visible in your previous post.

                    Quote: venaya
                    According to linguists coincidence in root words with modern Russian is 36%that completely converge with theories of the divergence of languages ​​in time. This is also not known.

                    With what ? with Farsi?
                    laughing
                    1. venaya
                      venaya 5 January 2018 20: 50
                      +1
                      Quote: karish
                      With what ? with Farsi?

                      Of course with Farsi! Let me remind you that future Persians came from the north and had genetics close to the genetics of Russian-speaking “Scythians”, that is, derivatives from the haplogroup R1a1, the haplotype “Z-93” and relatives. If there is at least some other information, then I will be grateful for the link to it, even in PM. By the way, here on the website about the Persians there was a film, and an American one, and in it everything that I write converges to the smallest detail.
                    2. long in stock.
                      long in stock. 6 January 2018 00: 23
                      +4
                      and yet Hebrew is this a dialect of Russian? and ... Jews stole our language from us wassat
                      1. venaya
                        venaya 6 January 2018 02: 00
                        +3
                        Quote: Long in stock.
                        Hebrew is a dialect of Russian?

                        Well, how can one be so illiterate? Hebrew appeared recently, modern Hebrew appears in 1913, thanks to the efforts of Zionist V.E.Zhabotinsky, who managed to convince his fellow tribesmen that Hebrew is also a kosher language, along with Yiddish. Although both the Talmud and Shulchan Aruch are written in Hebrew, there are several other dialects of the language about it. Hebrew owes its origin to the language and writing of the Phoenicians, who in turn pulled writing (like the "Greeks") and probably the basis of the language among the Pelazgs (Philistines), these are residents of ancient settlements of non-Orthodox Russians and another branch of religion, that is, "manifest" or "javus". That is, there should be some kind of connection between the language of the Javus Russ and the inhabitants of the Pale camp (Palestine now), though I personally was not very interested in this language branch, please study it yourself.
              3. Dzungar
                Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 14
                +7
                You do not calm down ..... Venya we have the same Klondike of such new inventions
                Quote: alatanas
                Farsi - Russian dialect

                laughing Be prepared to hear something worse ... laughing
            2. Dzungar
              Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 08
              +4
              Venya ...! Your extravaganza of your imagination is just rampant ..... !!! Offset! laughing laughing laughing
            3. Hantengri
              Hantengri 5 January 2018 22: 15
              +7
              Quote: venaya
              Even now there is such a city as Samara, before there was also the city of Arkona, summarize: Samara + Arkona = Samarkand,

              Samara is a city in the Middle Volga region. The city of Arkona existed until the XII century and was located on the cape of the same name on the island of Rugen.
              Attention question:
              1) On what basis can this be folded?
              2) How, if this is added up, can Samarkand (a city in Central Asia) turn out?
              3) What “interesting” substances should be taken before that?
            4. long in stock.
              long in stock. 6 January 2018 00: 20
              +2
              hey allo. do not touch your native city .. there is no and no ark here ... there is a Samarka river. And the name is Tatar. like all the rivers in our area .. and it doesn’t bother us Russians ..
              1. venaya
                venaya 6 January 2018 02: 07
                +2
                Quote: Long in stock.
                .. there is no archon here and there was no ... there is the Samarka river, and the name is Tatar, like all the rivers in our region ..

                Gosha! A Tatars were not previously Rus? And about Arkona, Ar-Kon is the purest Russian-language term, such places in Russia were apparently not visible - this is a religious place for the departure of the Vedic religions. Didn't you know? The term Samara, that is, Sam-Ar, is the purest Russian-language and, at the same time, religious term. It is also advisable to know about this!
                1. long in stock.
                  long in stock. 6 January 2018 09: 16
                  +2
                  and next to it there are such rivers as kinel .. kondurcha .. juice ... irgiz .. well, how to pull this owl on the globe ... I’ll go call my Tatars .. I’ll tell him that before, very long ago he was also like me gray and high ....
        2. long in stock.
          long in stock. 5 January 2018 16: 20
          +5
          and Stonehenge, too, have established the Rus? A rare case when I agree with Olgovich as if it were not unpleasant for me ..
          1. venaya
            venaya 5 January 2018 16: 46
            +2
            Quote: Long in stock.
            and Stonehenge also installed the Rus?

            Do you have any other options on this subject? If not, then by definition, such as the whole of present-day Europe was dominated precisely by the Rus (R1a1), then any other options can be considered simply incredible or negligible. If you manage to find at least one more possible option on this question, then perhaps this will be a really great scientific breakthrough. Really try to offer something new, then we will separately consider this issue.
            1. long in stock.
              long in stock. 5 January 2018 23: 58
              +3
              yeah .. what do you prove? haplogroups? Wow..


              how easy it is to be a believer .. it’s interesting where everyone has gone .. the Romans somehow mentioned the Picts. but there are no Russians. and now I understand. it’s then that the evil West began to remake our history .. ugly Germans ..
              1. venaya
                venaya 6 January 2018 02: 14
                +2
                Quote: Long in stock.
                what do you prove? haplogroups?

                Of course, haplogroups are now much easier to prove, and on both sides of the male and female lines. But earlier, and I dealt with this issue for a long time, everything was clear at least from the Russian-speaking etymology of the names of localities, villages, rivers of lakes, etc. as well as religious beliefs, so they all over the world have Russian roots. By the way, and when you personally met with the ancient Romans - this question is very interesting, describe it in more detail, it is very important.
                1. long in stock.
                  long in stock. 6 January 2018 09: 18
                  +4
                  your haplogroups are full crap. The creator is modern, so to speak. And read carefully, the Picts met with the Romans - I'm not a pict ...
      2. venaya
        venaya 5 January 2018 09: 15
        +4
        Quote: Olgovich
        Quote: NEXUS
        Now, bit by bit restore our history.

        Do you consider THIS
        The Russian superethnos (Russ) exists from the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has at least 40 - 45 thousand. years old.
        history ?! belay

        No honey this is no longer a story story - It already smells of open science, based on the latest scientific research, and in various fields of science, not religious fiction! I think that this moment should be distinguished: stories and science are completely different concepts, do not confuse them.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 5 January 2018 09: 19
          +9
          Quote: venaya
          No dear, this is no longer a story tale - this is already smells frank science

          Nice man, science doesn't smell.
          There are no traces of Siberian Russ activity
          1. venaya
            venaya 5 January 2018 09: 23
            +4
            Quote: Olgovich
            There are no traces of Siberian Russ activity

            This is still where such fiction? Maybe for religious reasons you are forbidden to study the scientific works of scientists of another religious denomination? Then another thing, just don’t call it all science, it’s better to come up with a different term, for example: "Cropped science"After all, it will be more accurate, isn't it?
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 5 January 2018 10: 09
              +7
              And here are real! The science of circumcision is done.
              1. venaya
                venaya 5 January 2018 10: 15
                +4
                Quote: avva2012
                .. The science of circumcision done.

                What is the first time or what? In my opinion, this happens permanently, for a century now.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 5 January 2018 10: 25
                  +9
                  Ah, I thought I was joking. Damn me Petrosyan, will have to retrain as a management house.
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 6 January 2018 06: 26
                    +1
                    Tell me, did you also destroy the bell tower?
        2. BMP-2
          BMP-2 5 January 2018 13: 58
          +6
          Quote: venaya
          No dear, this is no longer a story tale

          Vyacheslav, it seems to me that such a “science” is somewhat contagious: Ukrainians also now find confirmation of their 140-year history, and in various fields! lol But with the fact that it is worth distinguishing between tales and science - I completely agree! yes
      3. Dzungar
        Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 02
        +2
        It seems to me that it’s pointless to convince them of something .....
        Quote: Olgovich
        part of the Rus was assimilated by the late Mongol and Turkic peoples, giving them khan, princely and noble families.

        Riot of extravaganza ........ !!!
    4. Basil50
      Basil50 5 January 2018 08: 03
      +2
      History is generally cyclical. What was done with Russia, covering it with a * Mongol invasion * is quite possible to correlate with the Civil War, when representatives of the nobility and those who served them, to preserve their own well-being, called on the foreign invaders.
      All this happened recently, there are even eyewitness accounts. And how much democratic der.a poured out on those who defended their homeland. Why is it that just over 10% of the population try to pass out crying for the suffering of the whole people? That’s the fact that more than 80% of the population of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE practically had no rights; this is normal and acceptable for Democrats.
      Well, why cry all of these, and fat and their lackeys today is so popular?
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 5 January 2018 11: 31
        +5
        Quote: Vasily50
        Here is the fact that more than 80% of the population of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE practically had no rights,


        Excuse me, what fairy tale did you get this from? Reforms of Alexander II de facto equalized the population of the Republic of Ingushetia in their rights. Everyone was equal before the trial — both the prince and the peasant. For example, look at the number of acquittals at that time — there has never been such a case in domestic jurisprudence since 1917. And the Basic Laws of 1905 secured the basic rights of citizens at the constitutional level.
        1. BMP-2
          BMP-2 5 January 2018 14: 00
          +3
          Speaking of “rights”, Vasily apparently means “opportunities” after all ...
      2. Basil50
        Basil50 5 January 2018 16: 14
        +3
        BMP, as the aunt even does not notice the obvious.
        I can give as an example the construction on the river. Volkhov building a hydroelectric power station to produce aluminum from local bauxites. Nikolai the second demanded that the owners sell the already built hydroelectric power station to the French on the terms of the French themselves: a deferment of payment of up to twenty years and a price set by the French themselves. Nicholas was then dependent on loans. This was done in relation to the very non-poor citizens of RUSSIA. And there were many such examples. By the way, look for the date of the abolition of corporal punishment for lower ranks. The history of the opening of HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS in SIBERIA is very interesting. Take an interest, maybe you will understand, in addition to the lamentations of the former which they refused to contain.
        1. Nikitin
          Nikitin 5 January 2018 16: 41
          +1
          Quote: Vasily50
          R. Volkhov. Nikolay the second demanded that the owners sell already rebuilt French hydroelectric power station on the terms of the French themselves: deferred payment of up to twenty years and the price was set by the French buyers themselves.

          belay fool
          When it was rebuilt, Nikolai had long been in the grave
          Quote: Vasily50
          UNIVERSITY OPENING IN SIBERIA

          You would like to know WHERE ALL the leaders of atomic and space projects learned and WHO learned them: in Russian imperial universities and Russians imperial scholars and teachers.
        2. Basil50
          Basil50 5 January 2018 18: 09
          +3
          Do not confuse the Volkhovstroy hydroelectric power station and the fact that they built it in the RUSSIAN EMPIRE, by the way, the aluminum plant was not launched at that time, in view of the power plant weaning. By the way, the power plant was unique, its dam did NOT SHOP Volkhov. The aluminum plant in Volkhov bauxite was launched only in 1932.
          1. karish
            karish 5 January 2018 22: 44
            +1
            Quote: Vasily50
            Do not confuse the Volkhovstroy hydroelectric power station and the fact that they built it in the RUSSIAN EMPIRE, by the way, the aluminum plant was not launched at that time, in view of the power plant weaning. By the way, the power station was unique, her dam did not overlap Volkhov

            Seriously ?
            He lived in Volkhov for several years, on the hydroelectric power station walked up, the dam does not overlap the Volkhov? belay
        3. BMP-2
          BMP-2 5 January 2018 22: 49
          +4
          Quote: Vasily50
          BMP, as the aunt even does not notice the obvious.

          Let's just say: the Lieutenant has a certain tendency to idealize old-regime times. On this basis, we sometimes copy it and break each other laughing . But in the case of Tartaria, about which he writes above, and from which some are inclined to deduce statehood, I agree with him: this is ordinary bullshit. Well, I completely agree with you that the satisfaction of the interests, rights and opportunities of the minority cannot serve as the basis for statements about the "progressiveness" of the then RI.
      3. Dalailama
        Dalailama 6 January 2018 06: 29
        0
        Quote: Vasily50
        what they did to Russia, covering it * with the Mongol invasion * is quite possible to correlate with the Civil War

        The Mongol invasion is one of the elements of what "created" with Russia, before that the Khazars could not cope.
    5. 27091965
      27091965 5 January 2018 09: 01
      +3
      Quote: NEXUS
      All these are the notions of Western historians who either intentionally or from blunt conceit purposely distorted our history, inscribing non-existent pages into the book of our history, at the same time removing the truth from it.


      The article has logic, but no analysis. A few excerpts from the article;

      The united army of the Ryazan land moved to the border. There were professional squads of princes and boyars, skilled fighters, well trained and armed, there was a city militia and a zemstvo army.


      Powerful earthen ramparts and ditches surrounded the city on three sides. On the fourth side to the Oka there was a steep river bank. The ramparts of the fortress reached a height of 9 - 10 m, with a width at the base of up to 23 - 24 m, the ditches in front of them had up to 8 m of depth. On the shafts stood wooden walls made of log cabins, filled for strength with rammed earth, clay and stones. Such walls were very stable. The problem was that the main forces of Ryazan had already died in the battle of Voronezh.


      Somehow it's all strange. They throw a heavily fortified stronghold with reserves, and go to meet a huge army to die. What can be called the action of such a prince?
      You think this is also invented in the west.
    6. Wayfarer
      Wayfarer 5 January 2018 18: 40
      +1
      Quote: NEXUS
      There was no Iga and the Tatar-Mongol invasion.
      This can be reliably confirmed only after the genetic analysis of the "Mongol-Tatars". Where is this data, why is it not given by the author of the article? Now, if there were the genetic data of Batu and his descendants on the male line, which confirmed that they were Slavs or Caucasians, then this is different, and so it all remains at the blah blah blah level. According to the Varangians, for example, the genetic data set a solid point: the Varangians were Slavs.
      1. venaya
        venaya 5 January 2018 21: 07
        +4
        Quote: Traveler
        this can only be argued after genetic analysis of the "Mongolo-Tatars". Where is this data, why is it not cited by the author of the article?

        If you are able to provide samples of these same "Mongol-Tatars", then in this case there will be a discovery in science. However, due to the fact that the so-called "Mongol-Tatars" themselves could not be found anywhere (due to their complete absence), it can be stated with a high degree of certainty that the "Iga" itself was not there. I consider the claims to the author of the article to be insolvent, he only publishes what is currently known with a sufficient degree of certainty.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 6 January 2018 06: 32
          0
          Ivan the Terrible took Kazan (Shpaka did not take), it was before that, it was.
        2. Wayfarer
          Wayfarer 6 January 2018 13: 02
          +1
          Quote: venaya
          However, due to the fact that the so-called "Mongol-Tatars" themselves could not be found anywhere (due to their complete absence)
          You have a logical contradiction, obviously you have a problem with a sense of logic. Was there an invasion of Russia? It was. Are there burials of those who carried out the invasion or not? This is the question that needs to be answered in the article. And so the author is all over, except for speculation there is nothing.
          In itself, the lack of genes of the Mongols in the Russian people is not proof. The author contradicts himself, as he claims in the article that ordinary people were hiding in the forests, respectively, women, in the cities they either died or were taken away as such, with the subsequent leaving of the woman to give birth as a mass phenomenon and might not have happened. Therefore, it is not surprising that we do not have Mongolian genes.
          Quote: venaya
          I consider the claims to the author of the article to be insolvent, he only publishes what is currently known with a sufficient degree of certainty.
          That's just the point the author does not give any evidence, only speculation. Now the evidence can only be a genetic examination, but there is no evidence regarding those who invaded Russia.
    7. Artek
      Artek 6 January 2018 08: 14
      +2
      finally, Samsonov came closer to understanding real history. But only in terms of the position of the white man, the Russian in history. But even in this form, the STEPS against RUSSIA does not see the story clearly.
      For example, Fomenko and Nosovsky see "Tataromongol" TMI campaigns, like the Rus-Horde wars directed to the west. This is probably more correct.
      The point of view that there was a war between the Russian steppes and the Russian saddles is probably possible taking into account the civil war in the 20th century, but the evidence for such a war is weak. The only thing that can be said in the affirmative is that the TMI did not exist in a classical form, a lot of evidence.
    8. YAKOV
      YAKOV 6 January 2018 13: 46
      +2
      NEXUS, don’t you yourself see or understand that the article is complete nonsense designed for idiots. Judging by the text, the author of the article considers idiots all those who, for some reason, caught the eye of the author’s nonsense and he read it. If you do not believe it, go to Hyperborea or find your Aryan ancestors.
    9. The comment was deleted.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 6 January 2018 22: 32
        +5
        Quote: ivankursk46
        Vaska the drunk from a neighboring entrance told me that the nexus’s mother is a prostitute, and her father is homosexual.

        My parents are in the land ... and your parents, who are offended by all means, will not help not your parents, nor the Lord God himself. You are a pity. It makes no sense to be offended by the weak on the head and the flawed ones; nature has already cheated them.
        1. Dzungar
          Dzungar 7 January 2018 08: 07
          +2
          It's not about who your parents were, why don't you understand this ....? The thing is that in this example you were also told the methods of your work - NO CONFIRMING FACTS ....
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 7 January 2018 11: 51
            +4
            Quote: Dzungar
            NO CONFIRMING FACTS ....

            Dear know-it-all, what facts can you provide in defense of what the Tatar-Mongol Igo was?
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            2. Dzungar
              Dzungar 10 January 2018 07: 12
              0
              They answered you for me ..... And that is exactly so. It’s strange because I would look if I would prove to a certain creature that pokes into the sky and says that “this is the earth” that it’s not so ... The analogy of you and this creature is direct .... If you say something, prove it. I’m not saying anything. Numerous scientists claim with their research, which you DO NOT Smell from the word AT ALL ...
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      1. Dzungar
        Dzungar 10 January 2018 14: 33
        0
        What will your theory be called ...? "Velikielitvinobelorus" living 100500 years ago and giving rise to humanity ...? In between, walking around, liberating Russia from the Horde ....
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  2. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 5 January 2018 06: 52
    35
    The article is a fat minus for its complete anti-science and truly enchanting delusionality. The author does not cite a single reference to scientific research, but instead the article is full of linguophrism in the style of "Etruscan is Russian" and arguments at the level of "but I am sure of that." A separate indignation is caused by the author’s attempts to rewrite history for the sake of pseudo-historical myths of neopagans. No, I understand that it’s hard for the author to accept reality and stop writing fairy tales about “pagan Russians who have gathered a colossal army, but still I would advise him to accept reality, as well as the fact that our Slav ancestors consciously chose Orthodox Christianity and finally cease to mock the history of their people and their Fatherland. And one more friendly advice to the author (if he reads the comments) —how soon you want to describe the mighty empire of the ancient Slavs — leave the story and engage in prose. Write a series of fantasy or alternative story novels about the Great Arctic Empire of the Aryans with powerful heroes, dazzling beauties, hand-held mammoths, and brotherhoods of battle magicians. Your fantasy is great, so the books should be wonderful. And such a Slavic fantasy, even I enjoy reading.
    1. Mar.Tirah
      Mar.Tirah 5 January 2018 07: 30
      +5
      But I don’t quite agree with you. An article from a series of articles and films (see the link) The author has some speculations. But only because there are no confirmed facts about some historical events presented to us in schools. You won’t deny that there is a failure in the whole millennium of our history. Why are light-blond, Slavic-looking, tall people found in millennial burial mounds in the deep Siberian taiga. With rich utensils, china from China, and weapons. I myself was on one such, and I don’t have answer? I considered the indigenous peoples of the Khanty, Evenki, Tungus, Yakuts, etc.And it turns out to be wrong? http: //old.archeo-news.ru/2014/09/blog-post_5
      6.html
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 5 January 2018 11: 15
        15
        Excuse me, I have never denied the presence in Siberia of traces of a number of cultures that can be anthropologically attributed to Caucasians. This is a fact and an indisputable fact. Such cultures include, for example, the Andronovo or Afafnasyevsky cultures, and historical science itself has long recognized the fact of the existence of developed Caucasian cultures in Siberia in antiquity. The point is different: there is no reason to argue that all these cultures consisted of political and economic ties with each other and formed a state like Rome or Egypt. There are no written or oral sources confirming this.
    2. venaya
      venaya 5 January 2018 09: 47
      +3
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      Article—bold minus for its complete anti-science and truly enchanting delusionality.

      What was it? What is it that turns out that today's, taught to everyone in different countries, and more often in different ways (depending on the requirements of the moment) "History" is a true "science"? It does not seem to you that by doing so you insult very many people of science who often sacrifice their lives (here we recall M. Lomonosov and others) in search of truth and truth. What is written today in modern textbooks simply offends most people at least in our country. and not only. And again: "ET-Ruski - this Russian"- because there have already been plenty of documents collected on this subject, except for the frank consonance of this Latin word with the modern term of the Russian language. But you don’t get it - you want to put as much of your own and others' stool as possible on a rather well-developed topic. What is the reason such neglect of the past of Russia? In addition to the permanent desire to enslave the remnants of the Russian ethnic group, no other explanation has yet been found.
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 5 January 2018 11: 26
        13
        Excuse me generously, but even if someone neglects the past of Russia and its history, these are folk “historians” who replace the real history of the Slavs, confirmed by material, written and oral sources, with their tales about “Slavic-Aryans” and some empires 30-40 thousand years ago. As for Lomonosov, the replacement of a real biography with tales of mythical imprisonment and murder is no less offensive to the memory of the great scientist.
        1. venaya
          venaya 5 January 2018 11: 53
          +3
          The term "folk - “historians”“it’s offensive to the hearing of a Russian person, because both roots of these words are not of Russian origin. There is a lot of information about M. Lomonosov, only the mass media often bypass this topic, although they even spoke in detail about Russia 24, I’ll look for it Someone who is very financially secure allows himself to massively throw disinformation in sky-high volumes - hence the difficulties with finding more reliable information. I hope this is already visible to many.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 January 2018 13: 02
            +5
            Okay, let there be the "storytellers". So Wenedish?
            1. Dimmih
              Dimmih 5 January 2018 17: 39
              +4
              No, Sivolapot-storytellers is a remake, it is only 20 thousand years old. But the original, 45-thousand-year exposure is the word for them, Dolboslavs!
          2. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 5 January 2018 13: 18
            10
            Quote: venaya
            the term "folk-" historians "is offensive to the hearing of a Russian person

            Here is how? Is this word offensive to you because it has no Russian roots? Then here are some more words that you can insult and throw out of your vocabulary:
            --A hero. The name of the original Russian, strong and wise hero of epic reality comes from the ancient Turkic baatur and the Danube-Bulgarian batur. The meaning of the word is “brave”, “hero” or “commander”.
            --Horde. The word appeared in our vocabulary even before the invasion of the Mongol-Tatar invaders - from the Polovtsy (presumably). The original meaning of the word “horde” is a union of nomadic tribes or a gang / promiscuous crowd.
            --Tent. The word spread in a number of Slavic languages ​​(including in Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Polish, Slovenian). Initially, it has Persian origin (cаtr - “screening, tent”), and penetrated to us through Turkic languages.
            --Horse. Along with the root words (loshevod - Konokrad, loshak - young stallion), comes from the ancient Turkic languages ​​(translation from the Chuvash word lasa; in the Crimean Tatar - alasa).
            Guard. The basis of the word was the Turkic verb "watch." In the Turkic languages ​​themselves, “guard” had the meaning of “patrol” or “guard”, but there were other equivalent concepts that were not typical of our language. An example is “a gun on a gun”.
            Money. The word “money” in the Turkic languages ​​meant any coin made of silver - it migrated to us in the XNUMXth century in a similar sense. It is interesting to note that in a number of languages ​​(Kyrgyz, Uzbek, Kazakh), the root of this word has a second meaning - protein. The thing is that in ancient times, fur was often used by people as a currency.
            Master. The history of the word originates precisely during the period of the Tatar-Mongol invasion. Initially appeared in the Persian language (“Khoja” - master), from where it migrated to the Turkic dialects.
            Quiver. A vivid example of direct borrowing in the military sphere - the Russian word "quiver" originates from the Tatar kolcan, kulcan.
            But Latin gave us so many words ... justice (“justice”, “legality”), alibi (“in another place”), verdict (“truth is pronounced”), lawyer (from Latin “I urge”), notary public - ( “Scribe”), protocol (“first sheet”), visa (“viewed”), etc. The words version ("turn") and intrigue ("confuse") are also of Latin origin. The Romans came up with the word lapsus - "fall", "mistake", "wrong move." Greek and Latin origin has most medical terms. As an example of borrowings from the Greek language, one can cite such words as anatomy (“dissection”), agony (“struggle”), hormone (“I bring into motion”), diagnosis (“definition”), diet (“lifestyle”, "Mode"), paroxysm ("irritation"). The following terms are of Latin origin: hospital (“hospitable”), immunity (“liberation from anything”), disabled person (“powerless”, “weak”), invasion (“attack”), muscle (“mouse”), obstruction ("blockage"), obliteration ("destruction"), pulse ("push").
            So if you are insulted by borrowed words in Russian, remove them from your speech and I will be happy to see which version of the Russian language you will speak. If, of course, I can understand you at all.
            PS As for the word "folk historian" .... then I give you the option of "false ancestor." You can use as much as you like. laughing
            1. Cat
              Cat 5 January 2018 14: 42
              +5
              They are storytellers! More precisely balabol from history, I would say the truth is a womb, but I think censorship will not miss.
              I am alarmed by the other, who "dances the girl" we see, and whose music?
              1. Dzungar
                Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 30
                +2
                This "music" as well as all subversive work among the peoples of Russia has ONE authorship .....
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 5 January 2018 21: 45
                +3
                How's whose? Genghis Khan group, composition "Moskaw"
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 January 2018 14: 52
              +2
              Everything is correct, only a horn is a donkey offspring from a stallion, barren
              1. Cat
                Cat 5 January 2018 18: 49
                +4
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Everything is correct, only a horn is a donkey offspring from a stallion, barren

                Spit through your left shoulder and knock on a tree, otherwise Oparyshev will come!
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 5 January 2018 21: 50
                  +3
                  Yes, come on! All the "raspberries" immediately and cover.
            3. venaya
              venaya 5 January 2018 17: 37
              +3
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              And Latin gave us so many words ...

              Actually, "Latin"as our site colleagues write to me even here 90% consists of words with Russian roots. The ancestor of the current Russian language itself was born according to calculations in the area 30 - 60 thousand years ago. But the whole Turkic language group is essentially a dialect of a very ancient Russian language and God forbid 16 years ago. So your "research" smells more like just really "folk history", a foreign spill naturally does not correlate with the works of modern linguistic scientists, but it's a pity.
              1. Gartny
                Gartny 10 January 2018 16: 00
                0
                Well no. More than 50% of the words are Belarusian, the rest are Turkic and others. By the way "sniff" in translation from Belarusian "well, let it be." )))
        2. Dzungar
          Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 27
          +3
          One thing is not clear to me - what do they achieve by this ...? They will destroy the old story ... They will get confused in the new one, because each of them will come up with his own, namely the most faithful and correct one. As a result, they will remain nothing ... They are achieving this ...?
          1. BMP-2
            BMP-2 5 January 2018 23: 26
            +3
            Well, this is just obvious: in order to control a person’s behavior, first you need to bring him out of equilibrium: to deprive the internal balance. In the end, changing ideas about the past can also be used to change values, replacing some with others. However, the Americans have long been doing this, developing and implementing the theory of "controlled chaos" ...
            1. Antares
              Antares 6 January 2018 14: 18
              +2
              Quote: BMP-2
              However, the Americans have long been doing this, developing and implementing the theory of "controlled chaos" ...

              without Americans, there are enough people involved in IDB. Since this is also in demand by the mass consumer, such "stories" are given out with a bang, in which even a cat with a lamp is afraid to come.
      2. BMP-2
        BMP-2 5 January 2018 14: 13
        +3
        Vyacheslav, but the phrase “true history” itself does not bother you? After all, if we assume that such a thing really exists, then we need to talk about "true physics", "true chemistry", "true physiology" ... One of the key features of science is non-ossification and the development of knowledge: in science often , which was considered proven, can be refuted by subsequent studies. And for science this is normal. Einstein's theory does not in any way offend Newton's theory. Pavlov’s theory of higher nervous activity does not offend Galen’s theory of temperaments ... There was a time when optics was considered a completely explored and finished field - but then it turned out that this was far from the case! Well, I think Michel Eugene Chevreul was right when he expressed in his own motto the whole essence of science: "Always strive for truth, but never claim it!"
      3. Hantengri
        Hantengri 5 January 2018 22: 29
        +2
        Quote: venaya
        And again: "ET-Russians are Russian" - so there are already plenty of documents collected on this subject

        Will you bring a couple?
      4. Dalailama
        Dalailama 6 January 2018 06: 35
        +3
        Quote: venaya
        What is the reason for such neglect of the past of Russia?

        because the essence of the aggression itself is indiscriminate as to what many have revealed in the branch.
        1. Dzungar
          Dzungar 6 January 2018 09: 09
          +2
          That's for sure. When a certain SEAL reacts inappropriately to the mere mention of the name of the Hebrews and begins to accuse him of anti-Semitism - THIS ALREADY TALKS ABOUT WHO HE IS .... And, moreover, for all his peers, he is actively involved in promoting this nonsense .. Why would a Jew seem to ...?
    3. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2018 13: 11
      +2
      That's for sure. EKSMO and Ast will cut each other in full for the right to publish.
    4. Dzungar
      Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 21
      +2
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      Write a series of fantasy or alternative story novels about the Great Arctic Empire of the Aryans with powerful heroes, dazzling beauties, hand-held mammoths, and brotherhoods of battle magicians. Your fantasy is great, so the books should be wonderful. And such a Slavic fantasy, even I enjoy reading.

      This is too difficult for Samson. Simply impossible .... Maximum thin brochure with these little things
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 5 January 2018 07: 25
    10
    at that time lived the late Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world, the heirs of Great Scythia, the Aryan and Boreal world
    ... And how is this confirmed ...
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 5 January 2018 07: 57
      +7
      Quote: parusnik
      at that time lived the late Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world, the heirs of Great Scythia, the Aryan and Boreal world
      ... And how is this confirmed ...

      it’s written in a book! yes
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 5 January 2018 10: 02
        +7
        In a book edited by Prokopenko ....?
        1. venaya
          venaya 5 January 2018 10: 17
          +4
          Quote: parusnik
          In a book edited by Prokopenko ....?

          A book edited by Prokopenko is no longer a book but something else? Can we then define what is a book and what is not?
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 5 January 2018 11: 04
            11
            The incredible adventures of Baron Munchausen, also a book. We take ourselves for a scalp, and ....
            1. venaya
              venaya 5 January 2018 11: 14
              +3
              Quote: avva2012
              The incredible adventures of Baron Munchausen, also a book.

              And how do today's history textbooks in almost all countries differ from such a fabulously written fiction? Do you really manage to find the difference in such literary works. Unfortunately, from the very beginning of writing all kinds of "Stories", their scientific level has not gone far from writing such various tales, and for many people, the current level of "scientific" can no longer satisfy the modern, not yet completely zombified society, especially in our country in the country.
              1. BMP-2
                BMP-2 5 January 2018 14: 17
                +5
                Well, Alexander says this about this: you need to separate flies from cutlets, stories from science. And then because the fact that zombies re-bomb - in fact, nothing will change! laughing
                1. venaya
                  venaya 5 January 2018 20: 06
                  +1
                  Quote: BMP-2
                  need to separate flies from cutlets, stories from science. And then because the fact that zombies re-bomb - in fact, nothing will change!

                  I didn’t understand the question here, it’s like I never equated honey with such opposite concepts as science and “History”, because the latter is by no means written so that at least some truth is written in it, maximum likelihood, no more. Yes, I confess, I had a connection with the true representatives of really Science with a capital letter, engaged in truly true knowledge in this area. But how many are there in this world? Shares of a percent, and those in the ultimate pen, though they have tremendous authority among specialists. But mostly people work for the loot, they are often not interested in the truth, to know it is not only difficult but also dangerous, including for life. So I did not understand: where I managed to put an equal sign between science and the usual "History", tell God for the sake of. Perhaps the “History” has something to do with really science, but the science of managing society - that's only in this I completely agree! There is no other option yet.
                  1. BMP-2
                    BMP-2 5 January 2018 23: 11
                    +3
                    Well, what a day today it is like this: definitely no one understands me! laughing
                    Vyacheslav, in your commentary on Alexander’s ironic remark that the adventures of Baron Munchausen are also a book, that is, history (puns: “history” as science and “history” as storytelling), you say that today's is textbooks of history "in essence are storytelling. In my commentary, I tried to say that “history” is a science, with its own methodology, tools and approaches. And the results that she gets should be separated from idle reasoning by the excessively zealous authors on the topic "but I know how it really was, because it seems to me that way."

                    Well, as for re-zombies - as far as I understand, our points of view coincide. wink
        2. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 5 January 2018 16: 07
          +3
          Quote: parusnik
          In a book edited by Prokopenko ....?

          Of course, this is a joke, Alexey (both mine and yours), but, let's look at Ukraine, history is being grinded, textbooks are being written, and from them, generations are learning, this is the answer to how much “history in chronicles” can be trusted ... so, when with all my respect for the Nexus, the story from the “textbooks” is not a story, but about Arkaim and the dolmens, Andrei-Nexus, I’ll answer: these are artifacts, not history, that is, “terra ingognita”. hi
    2. Dimmih
      Dimmih 5 January 2018 17: 41
      0
      Yes, actually, in addition to the expression "I give a tooth!" - nothing.
    3. Dzungar
      Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 33
      +3
      Yes, nothing ... It’s just that someone needs the peoples of Russia to quarrel on this ground .... At the same time, the Russians would forget their previous history, but get confused in the new one. In the end - NOTHING
  4. Odysseus
    Odysseus 5 January 2018 07: 56
    18
    The Russians invaded Russia as descendants of the Scythians, and before that having founded Ancient Greece and Rome?
    Eeeeeeeee, I don’t even know how to comment on this. If a respected author is joking, then this is trolling of the highest 100 level.
    By the way, one to one recalled the history of "ancient ukrov" which our "brothers" are now leading from the Sumerians.
    PS The meaning of creating such myths from a political point of view is best described by Pelevin in SNUFF. There it was meaningfully murderously accurate and malicious.
    1. thinker
      thinker 5 January 2018 08: 54
      +8
      Not, but I liked it, Scythian-Siberians - Genghis Khan, Batu, Mamai. yes
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 5 January 2018 11: 35
        +6
        I’m saying, with a share of imagination, excellent fantasy will turn out. Or an althistory novel. smile
    2. igordok
      igordok 5 January 2018 09: 31
      +7
      Quote: Odyssey
      By the way, one to one recalled the history of "ancient ukrov" which our "brothers" are now leading from the Sumerians.

      About ancient ukrov. It turns out they came to Russia from the East, because of the Volga. fool

      Last time - more 1000 comments. Spend so much time on this, take pity on yourself.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 5 January 2018 10: 04
        +8
        In the New Year holidays, attendance drops. What is left to do? Advertising must be rescued. The site is not a Soviet television show, "Obvious-Incredible."
    3. parusnik
      parusnik 5 January 2018 10: 06
      +9
      Odysseus

      By the way, one to one recalled the history of "ancient ukrov" which our "brothers" are now leading from the Sumerians.
      ... This article makes similar impressions, we will wait for the continuation, it will probably be told there how the Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world dug Baikal, the Caspian, Aral Sea and fought with the ancient Ukrainians for the right to dig the Black Sea ... But alas, they lost the primacy to them , those were stronger ...
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 January 2018 12: 56
        +6
        Lord, with you, Alexey! Our ancestors of Kopamsh were simply tired, so they gave ukram. "God bless you, dig! But Crimea is ours!"
        1. Cat
          Cat 5 January 2018 14: 51
          +4
          Didn’t they dig up Anton? repeat
          Where is my shovel? ....... request
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 January 2018 15: 52
            +4
            Do not rush, Vladislav, let the Sun clear the construction of the bridge. And then we know you, hot Ural guys! Haha Ural ridge from 12 thousand to a half dug? What a shame? And they shouted, shouted: “Why do we need such a runway! We have nothing to do on this Mars!” Now here we rent a spot in the steppes of the Kazakhs ... And we fly low.
            1. Cat
              Cat 5 January 2018 17: 52
              +4
              In the Urals, there is a saying about Mount Grace in N. Tagil - "there was a mountain high - it became a deep hole"! So we can do it. fellow
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Dimmih
        Dimmih 5 January 2018 17: 43
        +4
        No, there was a tender for the right to dig the Black Sea, Dolboslav.hu site us, Rusoarii lost to Ukraine, they gave a lower price.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 January 2018 19: 10
          +4
          Well, everything is as always, dumping, and then the dough was not enough. And there remained Russo-Aryan interest holders with the unfinished Sea of ​​Azov, and Asgardbank did not give a mortgage.
          1. Antares
            Antares 6 January 2018 14: 26
            +2
            hmm ... in vain I studied geological and geographical, the origin of the Black Sea was not so fun. laughing
  5. tasha
    tasha 5 January 2018 08: 22
    10
    "And the speed of the slaughter is great ..." smile

    I wonder where in the author’s conception the history of the Turkic-speaking peoples of Siberia disappears in the second half of the 1 — the beginning of the 2 millennium?
    1. forty-eighth
      forty-eighth 5 January 2018 09: 57
      +6
      So there were no Türks. “Turk” is from the Old Aryan “you are nimble”, it means that the old Russians lived in small stature, and they were called like that. Where could any Turks come from, if the whole world, all civilization belonged to the Aryan Slavs, and then the Vatican deceived everyone?
    2. venaya
      venaya 5 January 2018 09: 58
      +3
      Quote: tasha
      .. where in the author’s concept the history of the Turkic-speaking peoples of Siberia disappears

      Are you sure that all of today's peoples living in Siberia have always been Turkic-speaking? What evidence do you have for that, or do not need them at all. For example, almost the whole of modern "Europe" (a term from the XNUMXth century) for many millennia, spoke the dialects of the Russian language (most still speak them, though in modern dialects). Yes, and interesting: what do you know about the origin of all these languages ​​of the Turkic language group? After all, the topic is interesting, and theories and studies of the linguists themselves already exist on this subject. Maybe you can still get acquainted with these works and in the end find out the kind (people, ethnic group) that founded this entire language group. I think that after this all your questions will disappear by themselves, in any case I hope.
      1. tasha
        tasha 5 January 2018 10: 43
        +4
        Are you sure of the opposite? And what is your “for example” based on? Yes, the topic is interesting and, in contrast to other theories, has been sufficiently developed and supported by numerous sources and archaeological data ... I believe that you should familiarize yourself with these materials and then ask unnecessary questions .... wink
        1. venaya
          venaya 5 January 2018 11: 23
          +2
          Quote: tasha
          And what is your “for example” based on?

          My "for example" is based on numerous data in the field of linguistics, toponymy, DNA of gynealogy, archeology, as well as quite numerous studies in these and other areas of science that are gaining strength. If interested, then I can throw something, for example in PM, if of course there is interest and the main desire for knowledge.
          1. tasha
            tasha 5 January 2018 11: 53
            +6
            I am glad that you were able to get acquainted with the numerous data in the field of linguistics, toponymy, gynealogy, archeology and other fields of science. Now get acquainted with as many data that do not coincide with your ideas about the world. Temporarily aplomb the great historian in the closet, you get the thirst for knowledge - and go! Flip a coin .... wink
            1. venaya
              venaya 5 January 2018 12: 03
              +3
              Quote: tasha
              Flip a coin ....

              Try to advise the same to yourself, by the way, also without aplomb, let me remind you: Science is, first and foremost, a struggle of opinions. Religion is another matter. Religion does not allow at least any deviations from the given religious attitudes. So: by all indications, even by its very name "Story" - there are more religious object. Read the comments, and see for yourself on your own. I think to prompt me especially not needed here.
              1. tasha
                tasha 5 January 2018 12: 21
                +5
                winked It was you who actually got into my comment ... If you managed to master the materials you listed, then do not pour water. Write more specifically ... And then I'll click on your nose (virtually, of course) wink
                1. Cat
                  Cat 5 January 2018 14: 54
                  +2
                  It’s not “clicking on the nose doesn’t help", you must immediately with a shovel!
      2. Dimmih
        Dimmih 5 January 2018 17: 46
        +3
        The ancient Turkic runic writing was heard, seen, not? Chinese annals? Also not? Mongoloidity, as it were, cannot get away from it anywhere. Activities of Kul-tegin, Bilge Kagan, Tonyukuk? Didn't you hear that too? Oh no no no!
    3. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2018 10: 57
      +4
      And nowhere, it's all the Mongol spy Gumilyov came up with.
  6. avva2012
    avva2012 5 January 2018 08: 30
    +9
    A beautiful picture about Kolovrat. The arrow pierced the right side of the chest. Death may have come from a wound to the pulmonary artery. True, then, a woman would "swim" in a pool of blood. But just as the artist painted, it's so beautifully simple. Credibility? Why, the artist sees so. So Samsonov does with history. Credibility? Why, Samsonov, sees so. Isn’t it prettier?
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2018 11: 11
      +3
      Oh, Doctor, only you don’t need all these horrors from the prosector forensic examination! Last time you didn’t let the author of Pulitzer get it, this time you’re depriving simple human joys, you don’t let Olivier finish eating.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 5 January 2018 12: 53
        +3
        What is natural is not ugly. I’ll keep silent about what happens during death. She would lie not only in bloodshed. Eat up, Olivier.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 January 2018 13: 33
          +1
          I’m actually talking about the "artist" and the author.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 5 January 2018 15: 13
            +2
            And that they are not people?
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 January 2018 16: 58
              +1
              People like you and me. Only it is difficult for me to confuse with blood and other substances accompanying violent death. So what about my Olivier, not worth it.
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 5 January 2018 17: 21
                +2
                Did I try to embarrass? It seems that my comment to which, you answered, was still not only about physiology, and I would say, not at all about it, in meaning.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 5 January 2018 18: 06
                  +1
                  Yes, and I originally tried to joke? Apparently we periodically equally unsuccessfully petrosyanim. Okay, remember?
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 5 January 2018 18: 25
                    +2
                    Naturally. In this thread, we definitely have nothing to share. This trash can only be discussed with humor.
    2. Antares
      Antares 6 January 2018 14: 31
      0
      Quote: avva2012
      True, then, a woman would "swim" in a pool of blood

      and the position of the arms and bent legs do not cause suspicion?
      Although such paintings are usually found fault solely on ammunition, weapons, horses, etc.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 6 January 2018 16: 05
        +1
        I was not going to give a lecture on this topic. The artist, in general, could have done easier by placing the deceased in the other direction. Then the arrow stuck out on the left side of the chest and did not raise any questions. The problem is, as I see, both in the author’s theory and in this picture, the artist thought exactly that he was drawing the "dead hawthorn with an enemy arrow in the heart."
  7. avva2012
    avva2012 5 January 2018 08: 50
    +4
    "Russia-Russia, as a geopolitical reality, has always existed, and appeared before the very western project and civilization."
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Doesn't it seem like that? The Bible is from Samsonov. And, why, why not wave? Why Shakespeare alone suffered request
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2018 10: 53
      10
      Doctor, in vain do you downplay the influence of delirium tremens on the fundamental works of modern luminaries from history. There is not only Shakespeare, here Homer has been erased. And who is Shakespeare? Recent studies by Russian historians and linguists convincingly prove the origin of this character from a small Estonian village near Tartu (aka the ancient and mighty Russian city of Yuryev). The poet’s nickname comes from the phrase "siks biir" in the translation of "six glasses of beer." And what he wrote in Middle English, so after three liters of dark unfiltered you still can’t write it. laughing
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 5 January 2018 11: 06
        +5
        Anton, bravo! This is some kind of pirduha!
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 January 2018 11: 42
          +7
          Come on! I'm really serious! The child reads "Twelfth Night" (the school asked for a vacation). An urgent need to select and slip the "Kolobok". This is pure Kolovrat! "And I left Subude! And I left Jaeba! And from you, Batu too .... ap! .... no luck ..."
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 5 January 2018 12: 57
            +5
            Yeah. Russian batyr, Kolobok did not leave the Fox, Ysil, damn it is not a Jewish name! But still, the Masons and Miller were there.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 January 2018 14: 36
              +2
              Do not suffer, do not distort your dialect of Venedsky, Venya will not understand. Probably simpler - Chinese mercenary Lee Si Tsyn
            2. Cat
              Cat 5 January 2018 15: 01
              +1
              And how did the fairy tale begin dear remember? "I left my grandfather, I left my grandmother" !!!
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 5 January 2018 15: 16
                +2
                The tale begins, like the hard films of XXX, the old man and the old woman searched for in bastards.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 6 January 2018 14: 02
                  +2
                  I remembered a joke
                  "-Cute, do you also like silly girlish love movies?
                  “Of course, only all of them are for some reason in German.”
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 6 January 2018 16: 09
                    +1
                    And then the Germans! belay Not only in history rummaged! laughing
            3. Dzungar
              Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 43
              +4
              Dear ...! I appeal to everyone ....! I've been laughing continuously for an hour .......... !!! Thanks a lot!
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 5 January 2018 23: 27
                +4
                You are welcome! Although, we actually have not yet begun too much! So, warm up with an incomplete composition after the holidays. There is no Mikado, Marat (the largest specialist in Venetian) is not in the voice ...
            4. Spnsr
              Spnsr 5 January 2018 22: 04
              +3
              Quote: avva2012
              Yeah. Russian batyr, Kolobok did not leave the Fox, Ysil, damn it is not a Jewish name! But still, the Masons and Miller were there.

              I didn’t leave the fox (siskin and k0) laughing
      2. alatanas
        alatanas 5 January 2018 12: 58
        +5
        No, he is of Balkan origin (Shakespeare). His name was Spiro, and his nickname was Yeshek. Yeshek Spiro - changed to English. manners, that’s what happened Shakespeare. laughing laughing
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 January 2018 13: 25
          +6
          So-so-so, Balkan, that is, Greek, that is - Homer, and Byron in Greece managed to make war. Homer, Shakespeare, Byron - one man! Hold on to Fomenko - we are going !!!
          1. alatanas
            alatanas 5 January 2018 15: 08
            +4
            Not right, friend. In the Balkans, not only the Greeks live. We have already built the Balkans (Stara Planina) (because the highest point of the Balkans in Bulgaria is located), and the Greeks are still building Olympus (therefore, Olympus is lower). lol smile laughing
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 January 2018 16: 15
              +4
              Yes, in general, we first poured the Ural Range up to 12000 meters, and then we dug a little. The cat will not let you lie.
            2. Spnsr
              Spnsr 5 January 2018 22: 07
              +1
              Quote: alatanas
              Olympus is being completed

              I don’t understand, Ukrainians are resting? belay
              1. Antares
                Antares 6 January 2018 14: 34
                0
                Quote: SpnSr
                Ukrainians have a rest

                Yes, they also successfully Ukrainized Jesus, but there are no more authorities ... except that parallel worlds are also Ukrainians ... we also know how to change landscapes.
                The impression is that the general publishing house.
                1. Spnsr
                  Spnsr 7 January 2018 00: 11
                  +2
                  Quote: Antares
                  Quote: SpnSr
                  Ukrainians have a rest

                  Yes, they also successfully Ukrainized Jesus, but there are no more authorities ... except that parallel worlds are also Ukrainians ... we also know how to change landscapes.
                  The impression is that the general publishing house.

                  and if it’s rude, to cast aside several hundred thousand years, to discard the concepts of nationalities and races, then in the end, the population that was the ancestors of the modern population of this territory was directly involved in the development of civilization. maybe even it was a kind of rearguard of Batu, after he cut out the pro-Western population of Kiev, with nulands and the like popping there at that time laughing the rear is shorter laughing
                  and with confidence we can say that today's events are not the first time ... laughing
            3. long in stock.
              long in stock. 6 January 2018 00: 37
              +4
              this is what .. here for example = samurai. it’s clear that this is distorted Russian, he’s cheers. that is, 1 screams cheers and crumbles everyone into a salad ...
        2. avva2012
          avva2012 5 January 2018 14: 43
          +6
          The Bulgarians from the Bulgars, the Bulgars, are the Turks, and the Turks, as it turns out, are Siberian Russians. Everything is clear, Shakespeare drank vodka without snacking, wore pima and it remains to be understood whether he is a shark or an okala.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 January 2018 15: 13
            +5
            What makes you think that he was able to speak at all? There are no audio recordings, no transcripts, no witnesses, and researchers - they all lie! There is a version that Shakespeare came up with cinema, because - the Great Mute. Well, that’s the way it has taken root among the people .... But what, is it possible for X-rays, but not for Shakespeare!?!?
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 5 January 2018 16: 39
              +6
              Mu-mu, part two? The adventures of Gerasim in foggy Albionis?
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 5 January 2018 18: 12
                +5
                That's right, about how he drowned the Baskerville dog in the Thames.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 5 January 2018 18: 29
                  +4
                  And you! Shaw and Dr. Jekyll, is he too?
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 5 January 2018 19: 19
                    +1
                    I don’t know here, it’s for Mikado, according to Stevenson he is a specialist.
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 5 January 2018 19: 59
                      +1
                      And by the way, where is he?
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 January 2018 23: 14
                        +1
                        I have assumptions, but dwell on the prose of life. Caught the same sociopathic neighbor and now communicates with former colleagues.
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 6 January 2018 08: 19
                      +1
                      I hope, nevertheless, expired mayonnaise in the salad. Well, let them, his colleagues, let them rest.
                      1. Mikado
                        Mikado 6 January 2018 15: 21
                        +1
                        I hope, nevertheless, expired mayonnaise in the salad.

                        add something else to me besides the phrase "Good Doctor"? belay laughing mayonnaise took me only once, and it was at 17! Everything is organized, everything! wink drinks
                  2. Mikado
                    Mikado 6 January 2018 15: 26
                    +1
                    And you! Shaw and Dr. Jekyll, is he too?

                    I don’t know who Dr. Jekyll is, but after "expired mayonnaise"I’m sure who Mr. Edward Hyde is working as a Good Doctor in normal times! wink drinks
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 6 January 2018 17: 06
                      +2
                      Nikolay, I saved you from your former colleagues, and you laughing
                      1. Mikado
                        Mikado 6 January 2018 23: 01
                        +1
                        Thank you, expired mayonnaise is clearly better than a night in the fart. wink Yes, I have not met a peeing neighbor! request
                        no, neither one nor the other! drinks
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 7 January 2018 04: 33
                      +1
                      no, neither one nor the other!

                      Judging by the fact that you came, "all is well that ends well." We, in spite of the buns, are still worried about good people. Do not forget.
                      1. Mikado
                        Mikado 7 January 2018 18: 52
                        +2
                        I worry about you all too. soldier So as not to kill each other on the forum drinks and all - Good people! drinks if Anton sees, he will remember Mark Krysoboy ... wink
                    3. avva2012
                      avva2012 8 January 2018 07: 16
                      +1
                      But isn’t Mark the Krysoboi a good man? Welcome worked.
          2. alatanas
            alatanas 5 January 2018 18: 40
            +3
            Most likely, he was joked and then hiccuped (after vodka, without biting)! lol
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 5 January 2018 19: 15
              +2
              Ekary Babai, however, it turns out wassat
              1. long in stock.
                long in stock. 6 January 2018 00: 40
                +3
                all right. that is, a translation of the modern-drunk vodka feeder women ...
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 6 January 2018 08: 21
                  +1
                  There is another translation from Farsi / Russian, this is an elderly man of non-traditional orientation, but I like yours more.
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado 6 January 2018 15: 17
                    +2
                    I liked both! laughed! good drinks
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 6 January 2018 16: 12
                      +1
                      Finally! Mayonnaise or colleagues?
                      1. Mikado
                        Mikado 6 January 2018 23: 06
                        +2
                        joker, appreciated! good Babai liked, your joint translation drinks
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 7 January 2018 11: 49
                      +1
                      - Yekarn babai! I shouted hastily.
                      - Oh my god, who is it? The thin fingers of the moon squeezed my shoulder so that I howled softly. A mercenary, to put it mildly, is not cowardly. To bring it to such a degree of fright - we must try ... The most impressionable devils echoed faintly, the rhythmic bone knock of the nape of the head on the granite floor diluted the impending silence in the hall. Pale Lucifer squeezed into the back of his chair and frantically grabbed his mouth with air, like a pot-bellied crucian thrown to the shore. I assure you - having fallen from the muzzle, he even turned pale, on which the Lord sat. In this world, any drunken ravings could become a egregious reality. On which the cunning landgraves play ... Ekar babay turned out to be a peppy old man with Asian features, two meters tall, completely naked, with such ... manly dignity ... Narrow eyes widened with admiration - the grandfather saw how many men were gathered here in his honor. - Oh, Allahu akbar! Wai Dod! Tsigel, Tsigel, ah lu-lu! Gulchat! - With these words, the babai grabbed the nearest feature, in the blink of an eye tore off black erotic armor from him and, snubbing his tongue gingerly, expertly unfurled the poor man with his back. - I'm not Gulchatai! - the unhappy victim of violence screamed desperately. - Bazaar Kiryakmi! - the grandfather shouted sternly, playfully slapping the devil on the furry ass. - Sim balalam - karachun, ax head! “And, without stopping the evil deed, he began to quickly distribute the names to the following candidates: - Zuhra, Zeynab, Leyla, Zulfiya ...- Skiminok ...” the Lord of Hell whined in a thin voice. “Where did you dig out the name of this pervert demon?” Take it away! “Wah, wah, wah ...” The Ekater Babai finally turned a touching look on Lucifer:
                      - Look, Gulchatai ... - What did he say ?! - Muscular Luci hid behind the throne. “That he really liked you,” I kindly explained. “He's even ready to appoint you as his beloved wife.” So to speak, Gulchatai out of turn! Meanwhile, the preoccupied old man had "spudded" the third victim, reliably holding five more especially attractive tails. Others, throwing weapons, in a random crowd rushed through all the doors, fleeing from a voluptuous scream: - Ay lu-lu !!! SWORD WITHOUT NAME III. Andrey BELYANIN
  8. Seraphimamur
    Seraphimamur 5 January 2018 08: 54
    +2
    Somehow there is a problem with arithmetic: Kolovrat has 1700 soldiers and Batu has 100 - 150 thousand and many regiments fell. But in general, a very interesting article. At least explaining something like this after the 300-year-old so-called yoke in Russians, there are no Mongolian genes. The idea that for 300 years the Mongol warriors kept their blood clean and were subject to a vow of abstinence does not hold water.
    1. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 5 January 2018 11: 40
      +6
      As I understand the history of anthropological research of that time — the majority of the Horde that came to Russia were Turkic-speaking peoples, and their phenotype from the Mongolian is significantly different. Roughly speaking these it is easy to confuse the Türks with the inhabitants of the South of Russia; they have no Mongoloid features at all. But the commanders and the elite of the Horde were just from the Mongoloids. In other words, the Türks constantly contacted the population, but the Mongoloids only occasionally.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 January 2018 11: 52
        +5
        SchA, wait, the "operator" will catch up. He’ll decompose everyone into haplogroups. Deep into history, up to and including trilobites.
      2. venaya
        venaya 5 January 2018 12: 26
        +2
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        .. the majority of the Horde that came to Russia were Turkic-speaking peoples, and their phenotype from the Mongolian is significantly different. Roughly speaking, these Turks are easily confused with the inhabitants of the South of Russia; they have no Mongoloid features at all. But the commanders and the elite of the Horde were just from the Mongoloids.

        Where else is this information from? So far, all documents found and researched say that they are written in Russian! And why did the Turkic peoples need this? By the way: where does the info about the "elite of the Horde .. from the Mongoloids" come from - where are the relevant studies? An autopsy of the mogidnik in 1941 showed just the "European" (that is, western) type of skull. Where are any found evidence of the Mongoloid elite of the horde? I don’t even ask for a link, just any similar message, in any form.
        1. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 5 January 2018 13: 33
          +4
          Regarding the Turks:
          The army that conquered Russia was led by the Mongols, but its ranks consisted mainly of people of Turkic origin, commonly known under the name of the Tatars. ”
          http://lib.ru/HISTORY/PAJPS/oldrussia.txt
          Why did the Turks need this? Yes, because they, like the vassals of the Mongols participated in their campaigns.
          Here is an analysis of the burial of noble Mongols in the Voronezh region:
          https://kitabhona.org.ua/lib_arh/olenkolodec.html
          Quote: venaya
          All documents found and investigated say that they are written in Russian!

          What are you saying? Have you ever been to a museum? If not, here is a link to the photo materials of the museum dedicated to that era:
          https://gosh100.livejournal.com/69452.html
          Take the time to look at the Mongolian documentswritten in arabic language!
          1. venaya
            venaya 5 January 2018 17: 09
            +1
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            Why was it needed to the Turks? Yes because they are like vassals of the mongols participated in their campaigns.

            Actually, I really don’t know such an ethnic group as the "Türks", maybe we are talking about the Turkic-speaking peoples? By the way, it’s funny: the Mongols themselves appeared in the XNUMXth century, although already in the XNUMXth they came up with “their own” script. And what did they need to write in Arabic - is that something in Russia? I understand: to distinguish people from the "Mughal Empire" and "Mongols" of the XNUMXth century, it is still much more difficult for many. By the way, indeed, experts write that all, without exception, preserved documents of that time (not fake) were written only in Russian. Can't you find it? So the number of tales, I see, everything is increasing and increasing, continue in the same spirit, entertain people and local trolls.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 6 January 2018 06: 43
              0
              You write nonsense about the Mongols, but otherwise well done.
      3. alatanas
        alatanas 5 January 2018 13: 00
        +2
        The Yakuts are Mongoloids, and the language is of the Turkic group!
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 5 January 2018 14: 44
          +4
          In general, like this, the Turks most likely looked when the Yakuts had to migrate north.
        2. Dimmih
          Dimmih 5 January 2018 17: 50
          +2
          AND? You are a racial type, Mongoloid, confused with linguistic affiliation, Turkic. The Chinese are also Mongoloids, this does not mean that they should speak Mongolian.
    2. Weyland
      Weyland 5 January 2018 12: 35
      +2
      Quote: Seraphimamur
      Kolovrat had 1700 soldiers and Batu 100 - 150 thousand and many regiments fell.

      There are warriors - and warriors. There are elite troops, and there are auxiliary forces - "cannon fodder". Google the losses in the Marathon battle, during the Montjizor or, more characteristic, in the battle of Visby (there the weapons and armor were generally of the same class, the level of training was different). Through the auxiliary troops of the Mongols, Kolovrat passed like a knife through butter - but when Batu pulled up the elite troops, the final battle came ...
      1. Dalailama
        Dalailama 6 January 2018 06: 44
        0
        Nothing came, he beat them all, then his squad simply searched for death while standing under the fire of siege weapons.
    3. Antares
      Antares 6 January 2018 14: 36
      0
      Quote: Seraphimamur
      The idea that for 300 years the Mongol warriors kept their blood clean and were subject to a vow of abstinence does not hold water.

      one of the two was either terrible, or a little vodka was given out.
      Or maybe they were smart - they stored the code!
  9. Fedorovich
    Fedorovich 5 January 2018 09: 43
    +8
    Alexander, I beg you: give up drugs.
  10. forty-eighth
    forty-eighth 5 January 2018 09: 51
    +6
    The only practical use of the article is to push each other pluses for comments.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2018 11: 53
      +8
      Well, why? You can fast and laugh.
      1. igordok
        igordok 5 January 2018 12: 34
        +9
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Well, why? You can fast and laugh.

        Sorry, but this moronity, no fun, just getting tired. From broom-like passages, ears are curled up.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 January 2018 16: 23
          +3
          Do you read them ??????? !!!!
      2. Dzungar
        Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 48
        +4
        So I have not neighing for a long time ...! Like a horse ...!
    2. Reserve officer
      Reserve officer 5 January 2018 14: 10
      +7
      The article is another version of "affairs of bygone days." It is the version, but it is served as genuine events. The works of thousands of historians and archaeologists are refuted on several sheets of text. Well, and how to relate to this? It is very similar to the publication of supposedly scientific work necessary to defend a Ph.D. thesis on history. Namely - candidate.
      The problem is that, indeed, our history was emasculated, in our history there are many "white spots". And it is human nature to be interested in where he comes from and who his ancestors are. Each person sooner or later asks parents - where did I come from? And, as everyone knows, there are a lot of answers - both stork and cabbage ... That's how the “white spots” in history fill approximately.
      But there will be many, many more finds and discoveries. The technical capabilities of archaeological research are constantly being improved. Therefore, I will say that the farther into the future, the clearer the past. In science, vanity is inappropriate.
      Here are just to cross out the works of people who have devoted their lives to the study of the history of the country, as it were softer to say, is not ethical. Any scientist carefully studies the materials of his predecessors. And if his own research leads to other conclusions, then only on the basis of facts. Not versions. Otherwise, he is not a scientist, but a journalist.
      1. Dzungar
        Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 53
        +3
        Seriously, in my opinion this is subversive work ... The old story should, by some plan, disappear, but there will be problems with the new one. Since we will immediately find a bunch of people who want to write it in their own way, and it will have to be considered the only true one. As a result, there will NOT be any new story in this wild mess. Everything, the people were left without history. So - WITHOUT FUTURE
    3. Antares
      Antares 6 January 2018 14: 37
      +1
      Quote: forty-eighth
      The only practical use of the article

      I haven’t reached the end yet. The pre-scientific debate ended long ago, but at least it became fun.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 6 January 2018 20: 08
        +1
        Is it fun for you? So we are doing the right thing here. Wangelsingue as far as possible. Good company. Join now!
  11. Glory1974
    Glory1974 5 January 2018 09: 53
    +4
    The official history does not explain much of what, therefore such articles appear. Yes, a lot of speculation, no links to sources, but what to do? Official historians cannot say anything.
    The summer reckoning in Russia led to the west under Peter 1, and began to count the 1700 year, and before that it was 5700, where did 4000 go, what was there? In response, silence.
    At one time in the Caucasus in Karachay-Cherkessia was on the ruins of monasteries 2-4 centuries of our era. Is something written in the "school" story about this? You won't find a trace.
    There are many unanswered questions, and this gives reason to conduct an audit of the whole story.
    1. Fedorovich
      Fedorovich 5 January 2018 11: 01
      +2
      Quote: glory1974
      This calculation in Russia led to the west under Peter 1, and began to count 1700, and before that it was the 5700th, where did 4000 years go, what was there? In response, silence.

      Yeah Do you seriously distinguish between "from the creation of the world" and "from the Nativity of Christ" or are you just pretending?
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 5 January 2018 17: 26
        +2
        Do you seriously distinguish between "from the creation of the world" and "from the Nativity of Christ" or are you just pretending?

        I say that Russia did not exist for a thousand years, as is now believed from the beginning of the adoption of Orthodoxy, but much earlier.
        If historians still agree with pre-Petrine dating. Well, like you, say that it’s just a different account. So what about other dates, for example 13 of thousands of years from the great cold snap? Or 100 000 years from the great migration? So then the state existed and an official countdown was conducted.
        By the way, the score was not “from the creation of the world”, but from “the creation of the world in a star temple,” if you know what the difference is.
        1. Cat
          Cat 5 January 2018 18: 04
          +5
          Glory dear. You are mine, go to the bathhouse, drink some kvask. Then, on the left, wait for the bible, and on the right, the Tale of Bygone Years, and compare the first three pages! If you are not a fan of "Darwinism" and are ready for the fact that in both books there are no words about dinosaurs, then the truth will find you !!!
          R.s. remove physics and astronomy textbooks too. By the way, the solar system is about five billion years old.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 January 2018 18: 26
            +2
            A bathhouse with kvass, why?
            1. Cat
              Cat 5 January 2018 18: 58
              +6
              Evaporate nonsense with a wreath, clean the head, collect thoughts into a fist. Three pages of text from one source, plus three from another. A total of six! They must be read, compared, comprehended! God forbid, after "enlightenment" desire in the loop "arises"? If so, you don’t have to wash it .....
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 5 January 2018 20: 17
                +3
                Practical of course, but useless. Pearl of the cervical vertebrae is accompanied by involuntary relaxation of the sphincters. So you still have to wash.
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 6 January 2018 15: 15
                  +1
                  Practical of course, but useless. Pearl of the cervical vertebrae is accompanied by involuntary relaxation of the sphincters. So you still have to wash.

                  I read somewhere (I don’t remember where, in some English detective story) that in post-war England, the sentenced before execution was offered the services of the Good Doctor, or, more precisely, an enema.wink so that, so to speak, "do" relax, and not "during" request
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 6 January 2018 19: 59
                    +2
                    I don’t know about this. But the executioner’s money from the sentenced’s relatives, for a correctly tied and placed knot — this was practiced everywhere.
                    1. Mikado
                      Mikado 6 January 2018 23: 03
                      +1
                      But the executioner’s money from the sentenced’s relatives, for a correctly tied and placed knot — this was practiced everywhere.

                      that is yes. In general, the executioner - you can write separate articles about him. One family of Sanson is worth. Really, people with "disabled extra feelings at the time of action." They just did their job!
          2. Glory1974
            Glory1974 6 January 2018 09: 38
            +2
            go to the bathhouse, drink kvask. Then, on the left, wait for the bible, and on the right, the Tale of Bygone Years, and compare the first three pages!

            Dear Kotische. I’ll go to the bathhouse and drink some kvask. But.
            1. Many scholars still do not perceive the Bible as a historical document, as well as the Tale of Bygone Years. If I follow your advice, compare them and unsubscribe on the site, then I will immediately be criticized and obstructed. And many will also suggest that I compare for example "Wolfhound" and "Game of Thrones." Why not? In the USA they study the Game of Thrones at colleges, what is not a document?
            2. There are things that do not fit into the generally accepted history. Including some artifacts, documents, etc. I want historians to explain them, and not pretend that they are not.
            3. Why should we believe in one historian scientist, candidate and doctor of science, and not in the same other scientist, the same doctor of science?
            R.s. If we also begin to discuss the origin of the universe, we will get confused. To begin to understand at least what was happening on our planet.
            1. Cat
              Cat 6 January 2018 19: 43
              +4
              Dear Vyacheslav !!!
              In principle, the conclusions are fixed but somehow from another side.
              The Bible and Tale of Bygone Years for true historians as books are priceless! So for mentioning them in a sou or at the department obstruction does not threaten you. The trouble is different, namely, what kind of texts are these, more precisely the first pages of the works under consideration. History of the creation of the world! Given the age of the first, the beginning of the story is simply a tracing-paper of the Bible.
              Now a riddle? If to our days as a source comes the story of the past years and the Koran with the Torah, and the Bible has sunk in years? What do we get? The pundit sincerely concludes that the author of the Tale was either an orthodox mullah or a God-chosen rabbi. Since the Quran and the Torah also begin with the creation of the world! You think the Tale is lonely, I’m satisfying you, almost 50% of the books of the Middle Ages began with the “creation” tracing-paper! So alas, your attempt to find the difference between the obvious (calculating time since the creation of the world) and tracing paper for the obvious (calculating time from the birth of Christ) in total gives a zilch. The Greeks have been counting since the First Olympics, the Romans from the year Rome was founded, etc. so taking into account that over the centuries bloopers and errors accumulated, then for "pseudo-historians" it is a basket with golden eggs! Do you want a false or pseudoscientific version of "padmanuli" in the easy!
              The Western brothers didn’t spoil the descendants of the Great Russian matrix, slipping us a false history of the Russian land. Yes, yes, my brethren, I TALK ABOUT THE TEMPORARY YEARS, all these are the machinations of the Vatican and papal henchmen. Compare the main events of the Russian Land and the Annals of Byzantium. We saw - everywhere the difference is 8 years! And then blah blah ........
              So, my dear friend, “false theories” are born! Only shh .. this regularity was noticed a century ago by a Russian scientist Shakhovsky. He sow the law and explained. But why should Sivkov read Shakhovsky, Yanov, Rybakov, Egorov, etc. Alas, alas. We grab particular and away we go.
              Now seriously. The timeline is complicated and by 1000 even in Christian countries the “tsifiri” didn’t beat in such a way that “the clock was checked against papal bulls” or Ecumenical Councils.
              And now about the special value of the Tale, the tale of the creation of the world, the resettlement of peoples, and actually the TEST from where the Russian land is and went (at least in three editions + the census takers) ends with the annals themselves. So the annals are especially priceless so they give at least a sequence of events. Although the dates are "trouble." but here are the costs of the times, the rumor reached the monk that King Batu died and he wrote down. And the fact that he had already been walking for two years or had already been recorded earlier by the previous chronicler .... So, analysis and analysis again.
              Now about the scientific fraternity. The most famous scientific puncture on the conscience of Academician Rybakov with his 1500th anniversary of Kiev, just on the eve of the 60th anniversary of the Great October Revolution. So I said above "analysis and analysis again!"
              Now, the conclusions: scientist to scientist discord. It is easy to throw a refutation from the rostrum, it is harder to prove it. So we will break the spears in search of truth, dig a fellow, read the Bible, the Koran and the story. But history does not like big words. An example is Tour Heirdal, who for the sake of his truth gave half a century of life!
              Well, the last Sivkov does not have a degree in history. So you want glory, my dear Vyacheslav, three pages of the Bible + three pages of the Tale of Bygone Years and your Sivkov laurels.
              Or a quiet, painstaking analysis and result. Then another quarter century and the result will be reckoned with. Yes, yes, for a true scientist, the main thing is a quiet zilch, and a modest "is considered" - that is, your working version is recognized by the absolute majority of other scientists!
              Regards, Your Cat!
        2. Fedorovich
          Fedorovich 5 January 2018 18: 34
          +4
          Yes, roof-Russes riding on mammoths and all that jazz. The court retires and does not return.
          Leaving the "star temple" to Asov and other Blavatsky, I allow myself to note that the dates of the "creation of the world" in Christianity are at least two. So past the point, dear ...
        3. Dalailama
          Dalailama 6 January 2018 06: 47
          +1
          The path from the bathhouse to the point they took only 5 comments.
  12. 452336
    452336 5 January 2018 09: 54
    +6
    It turns out there was not any TMI? To hell with the annals. In the 21st century, we know better what was and what was not)
    1. venaya
      venaya 5 January 2018 10: 13
      +2
      Quote: 452336
      .. wasn’t any TMI? To hell with the annals. In the 21st century, we know better what was and what was not

      Today, in the XNUMXst century, we have not only developed science, but also developed information technology - this is the main reason. By the way, give a reference about TMI in the annals, otherwise modern scientists can’t find it in these very annals of the time. Please enlighten these "ignoramuses", please provide them with something that no one has ever seen with their own eyes, I think that in this case, at least, your fame will be guaranteed, which may be significant.
  13. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 5 January 2018 10: 16
    +9
    What a wonderful coven !!!
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 6 January 2018 06: 48
      +2
      yeah, flocked on one or two
  14. Monarchist
    Monarchist 5 January 2018 10: 32
    12
    Comrades, I respect the opinions of others (I’ve been brought up this way), but as they say: “Plato is my friend, but the truth is more expensive,” but let me express my opinion.
    Kamrad Nexus, "bit by bit restoring our history" with this I agree. Andrei Yuryevich figuratively compared the story with a kaleidoscope (I’m already an adult, but I willingly twisted the kaleidoscope a couple of years ago) and here I agree 100%. ".... for example, tell Miller, with whom Lomonosov fought all his life, it's a pity that history A German wrote Russia, but keep in mind both Miller, and Lomonosov and Tatishchev relied on the same sources.
    Dear author, our story was falsified at the direction of the pope. In principle, this is possible, but if you carefully look at the history of religion and think it is doubtful. It turns out that Catholic scouts have infiltrated Orthodox monasteries, strangle Russian scribes, otherwise how can they falsify chronicles EVERYWHERE?
    Rurikovich, you say: “adherents of academics and school books,” and let me ask you: SOVIET HISTORIANS ALSO WORKED ON THE VATICAN?
    If the author or one of his pockets has alternative annals, then: “DOCUMENTS TO A STUDIO !!” But keep in mind this source must be carefully checked, otherwise ... Remember, during the Union there was a musical-humorous program: “Zucchini 13 chairs” and there one character all wrote the novel "Hares", and since no one needs his nonsense, he wrote it down on clay tablets and buried it in the garden, but the professor found it. I remembered it because to cheer comrades
    1. venaya
      venaya 5 January 2018 10: 48
      +3
      Quote: Monarchist
      SOVIET HISTORIANS ALSO WORKED ON THE VATICAN?

      Why not? Recall Academician A.M. Pokrovsky. For example, too Academician E.V. Tarle did not hate, he despised Pokrovsky! Does this surprise you? All revolutions (as well as shifts of monarchist dynasties) are financed and managed from about one collective center, in which the role of the Vatican is simply not possible to overestimate - it is a religiously ideological center. The fact that we have introduced a version of Abrahamic Greek Orthodox Christianity, which is slightly different from the Roman Catholic version, does little to change. I think that it’s just worth realizing, then many, very many questions will disappear by themselves. By the way:
      Quote: Monarchist
      If the author or one of the pockets has alternative annals, then: " STUDIO DOCUMENTS!!"

      This is what happens: Chronicles and alternative chronicles are no longer disputable documents? Let me ask - in what particular chronicles did you find references to TMI, and why no one has ever found this before you? By the way, modern science is able to use more reliable data than some, it is not clear for what purpose the written annals, especially since the originals of those years simply did not survive. Consider - science and research methods of the past are moving forward, as if it was not pleasant for anyone. Please note that today we live in the XNUMXst century, it’s worth at least remembering this.
      1. Dzungar
        Dzungar 5 January 2018 20: 58
        +4
        Quote: venaya
        All revolutions (as well as shifts of monarchist dynasties) are financed and managed from about one collective center

        Venya! Here you are just at this collective center and work .... Your subversive work .....
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 6 January 2018 06: 49
          +2
          Someone did not see the calls.
  15. Seraphimamur
    Seraphimamur 5 January 2018 10: 36
    +4
    And that our ancestors were so petty? "Mongols" invited the princes to share with them, paying tithing, but they chose to die. Here we have 13% calculated from the salary, and how much the state is pulling from legal entities and entrepreneurs ..... and no one goes to the barricades. The horde and then according to the yasses of Genghis Khan from Russia took a tribute of 10% and Russia rose. With such prices, economically “Igo” is good or bad?
    1. renics
      renics 5 January 2018 11: 31
      +4
      Do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs. Tax and tribute are different concepts and there is nothing to combine them into one. You will find the difference between these concepts yourself. And before writing a comment, you should first understand this.
    2. long in stock.
      long in stock. 6 January 2018 00: 46
      +1
      so the princes, in addition to paying the Tatars and themselves taxed. Plus, do not forget church tithes. By the way, the church was released from payments to the Tatars. So I also had to pay for them ..
    3. Antares
      Antares 6 January 2018 14: 41
      0
      Quote: Seraphimamur
      Here we have 13% calculated from the salary, and how much the state is pulling from legal entities and entrepreneurs ..... and no one goes to the barricades.

      It’s not the locals who come and they say, give me a tenth, but you still haven’t paid the local ...
      True author says? that local people didn’t come ... maybe a new type of tax? "Not local"
  16. Curious
    Curious 5 January 2018 10: 52
    12
    I read the article and some comments and realized that the legend of digging the Black Sea by ukrami has a right to exist. And it was the ancient Ukrainians who were the first superethnos. And other super-ethnoses have already come from him. This is the latest information from the Vatican library stolen by Ukrainian hackers.
    1. mar4047083
      mar4047083 5 January 2018 11: 32
      10
      If memory serves, the author used to rewrite history in the Masonic center located in London. It is unclear whether it is competitors or simply changed the address.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 January 2018 12: 08
        +5
        Oh, Marat, the special services accounting is so dark that even I and Shpakovsky can’t figure out who owes what to anyone. Either he is a Mossad, or to me is an Intelligent Service. In any case, I must remain in the black, otherwise they will not let me into Israel, they simply will not understand. laughing
      2. Servisinzhener
        Servisinzhener 6 January 2018 12: 09
        +2
        Strange .... There were allegations that the center of the "Masonic conspiracy" is located on Mount Zion ?! Or did they move out of there? lol
        1. mar4047083
          mar4047083 6 January 2018 18: 03
          +2
          The author has not yet written about Mount Zion, but we will probably still hear new revelations from A. Samsonov. You are probably here recently, so I will give advice never engage in a polemic with Benjamin. Do you know how to join r ...
          1. Servisinzhener
            Servisinzhener 6 January 2018 22: 33
            +1
            Yes, you're right, only half a year here. I'll keep it on mind.
      3. Antares
        Antares 6 January 2018 14: 43
        +1
        Quote: mar4047083
        competitors or just changed the address.

        competition of two / three business entities.
        There are still branches off the planet.
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2018 14: 05
      +5
      The funny thing is that the author probably does not imagine how close he came to the "works" of some American colleagues in his Russoglobalist opuses. Those in all seriousness claim the genocide of North American Indians by Russian settlers.
    3. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 6 January 2018 13: 08
      +1
      To this they can answer you about the apparent insanity of the supporters of ancient ukrov and delusional their arguments. But they about 40 thousand-year-old Rus are absolutely right)))) I would advise them to go even further in the jurisdiction of this pedigree. For example, keep the pedigree of the Russ from reptilians, from which they evolved))). Unlike everyone else with their evolution of primates. So, in a couple of minutes, I extended the history of the superethnos by a couple of tens of millions of years))) By the way, this theory reminded me not only of modern Ukraine, but also of Germany of the thirties, with its Aryan and Nordic hops, the theory of universal cold and hollow earth inside of which their theories all live)))
  17. Korsar4
    Korsar4 5 January 2018 10: 59
    +6
    From the foregoing, I understood - Genghis Khan, Jochi, Batu - were. Only they are fake.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2018 11: 24
      +6
      Of course, Disney came up with them, long before Mickey Mouse.
    2. Weyland
      Weyland 5 January 2018 12: 39
      +6
      Quote: Korsar4
      Genghis Khan, Jochi, Batu - were. Only they are fake.


      Yeah, like in "Ivan Vasilievich":
      "Kolovrat rebelled! He says Batu is not real!"
      1. Cat
        Cat 5 January 2018 15: 07
        +4
        Well, you comrades in general ........, where will we find you something real?
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 5 January 2018 19: 11
          +2
          Just replace the novels of V. Yang with the singer of the Slavic-Mongol yoke. Only it is not clear what to rely on.

          However, in this opus Rashid ad Din was already mentioned.
  18. Cartalon
    Cartalon 5 January 2018 11: 06
    +8
    This is horrible, you have to leave the site.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2018 12: 42
      11
      How is it possible? Well this is such a rare case in psychiatric practice - to observe the dynamics of transient progressive schizophrenia, which has an epidemiological character.
      1. Town Hall
        Town Hall 5 January 2018 12: 44
        +3
        Far from fleeting ...
      2. Cat
        Cat 5 January 2018 18: 11
        +5
        Anton Doctor didn’t bite you? And then there’s also a little diagnosis! + Latin recipes in illegible handwriting!
        The main thing is to treat them only with purgen. So that in your slippers you yourself "crap"!
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 5 January 2018 18: 38
          +4
          If you are about me, then I do not bite repeat , and there are all vaccinations.
          1. Cat
            Cat 5 January 2018 19: 11
            +2
            I know you will cut off the doctors first ...........
            Below Anton is complaining about you Vyacheslav Olegovich! An epidemic or an epidemic, can a rotovirus infection? But the fact, the diagnosis .... Anton is mucous!
            If I offended you, I sincerely apologize. hi
            Ready to suffer punishment, except ...... Well, you understand "March" all that!
            Damn again suffered ...
            Doctor, but seriously in your practice with manic depressive psychosis if Fomenko-Sivkov & Co. gets caught, you will first cut or think and then cut. I apologize for the question, today I just had a desire to beat them. I know what is bad, but is there a desire?
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 5 January 2018 20: 17
              +4
              The problem, in my opinion, is not a medical one. This is another call from the other side. Difficult, we are all an option for our partners. Look, how many years have been spent on the anti-Soviet forces and money, and our people, all yearning for the Soviet Union. Here's what to do with us? And let's, we will try them with another dust, partners think. Let us take the Great Russian pride to them, we will make the Aryans out of them so that they look down upon all non-Russians there. They lived side by side with other nationalities, had children together, defended their homeland, sometimes quarreled, but then reconciled again. But, that’s all, it was because they didn’t know that the roots were Hyperborean and their nation had more than forty centuries. Here they learn about it and how great pride will leap into them and they will begin to measure the skulls, and to look for a pure halogen group in the analyzes. And then, take them warm, because brother will go to brother and father to son.
              Such a story is obtained. So it’s not a medical one, it’s a problem, but it’s entirely a security service, federal, if any.
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 January 2018 22: 07
              +2
              The doctor will not cut them, because the doctor. Call a team from the appropriate institution. There they will be sedated and they will continue to dream. But behind the scenes, "in yourself."
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 January 2018 18: 51
          +4
          Bite, just yesterday and bit, "on the tongue" made a clinical blood test, branded an infected latent traitor, promised a military field tribunal. In anticipation of a commandant platoon, I write in gloves and a gauze bandage so that you do not infect.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 5 January 2018 19: 27
            +2
            Well, e, May, I’m getting some kind of awkwardness. Rather, undead. Bite you for everything? Pah-pah, what kind of fantasy ?! I, you’re not here, you understand! Yes, and based on the profession, in vain, you are waiting for the team. "03" is the maximum. 100 grams for the prevention of all infections and in the bed for his wife until seven sweats come down to the site without a foot!
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 January 2018 21: 04
              +3
              Do you see yourself in the mirror? Cast a shadow? Talk about alcohol calmly? Cats do not shy away from you? So, everything is fine. And 03 came to me a month and a half ago. 01 yesterday in the yard hanging out. 04 does not shine, because there is no gas. Remains 02. So the circle closed.
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 7 January 2018 05: 30
                0
                As for the mirror, I'm not sure, for bald, but what else is there to look acre hairstyles? With shadow problem, dusk on the street. Ah, I don’t bite vodka with garlic, that's for sure! belay belay Doesn’t you know Van Helsing?
    2. Cat
      Cat 5 January 2018 18: 18
      +5
      Quote: Cartalon
      This is horrible, you have to leave the site.

      Guys - you can’t give up, if we give slack then these friends of the “hamsters” will turn our story into something .....
      We already took steps in the 90s that cannot be called "far-sighted." In recent years, it seems to have changed their minds, and here what we get in the exhaust is “heroic fantasy”! And we need it!
      So Michal tail gun, RUSSIANS DO NOT GIVE UP !!!
  19. 452336
    452336 5 January 2018 11: 08
    +4
    Quote: venaya

    Please enlighten these "ignoramuses", please provide them with something that no one has ever seen with their own eyes, I think that in this case, at least you will be guaranteed fame, possibly something that will fall, significant.


    Yes Easy. The battle of Kalka in 1223, the invasion in 1237, the distribution of labels for reigning in Sarai, the Basques, standing on the Ugra. It was or wasn’t. Or lie?
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 January 2018 11: 22
      13
      Be careful, dear! Contacting this commentator, you run the risk of giving a lecture of thousands on five printed characters on how the ancient Wends (of which he is a descendant) Rome founded.
    2. venaya
      venaya 5 January 2018 11: 32
      +4
      Quote: 452336
      The Battle of Kalka in 1223, the invasion in 1237, the distribution of labels for reigning in Sarai, the Basques, standing on the Ugra

      And where did you manage to see "Igo", and even "Tatar", and even "Mongol". After all, the term “Igo” appears in written sources a century after its “official”, “Tatars” - appear even later, “Mongols” - generally in the 1817th year. Where you managed to find TMI itself in the primary sources, no one wrote about it then, but did not even think to write, because there were no such terms in Russia. Try to be more careful in describing events and using terms.
      1. Fedorovich
        Fedorovich 5 January 2018 12: 42
        +7
        And the "Woeful Song of the Ruin of the Hungarian Aorolism by the Tatars" was also invented in the Vatican to "circumcise the history of the Slavic-Russians"?
        PS By the way, the fans of all this asovschina for some reason always differ in narrow-minded bestial Nazism. And why so? ..
        1. venaya
          venaya 5 January 2018 13: 04
          +2
          Quote: Fedorovich
          For some reason, admirers of all this asovism are always distinguished by narrow-minded bestial Nazism.

          An interesting comment, this is me about: "narrow-minded", "bestial" and "Nazism". It is significant that all these three definitions apply specifically to people with a highly developed inferiority complex. What “inferiority complex” were you able to find in people deeply interested in their real past, and not a “history” story written by strangers? Try to nevertheless more accurately determine the fundamental concepts and try not to translate the arrows from a sore head to a healthy one!
          1. Fedorovich
            Fedorovich 5 January 2018 13: 47
            +7
            Well, if a person begins to ascribe to his country some fantastic and absolutely ridiculous "story" - he, apparently, suffers from an inferiority complex, being sure. that in the real history of the country there is nothing to be proud of.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 5 January 2018 14: 59
              +8
              What two countries prove, 30's Germany and modern Ukraine. Neither the history of the state was there or there. For example, Germany. This is for us, a German, this is a German, and for them, there is a Bavarian, a Saxon, etc. Moreover, the relations between different residents of the German region are, to put it mildly, not cloudless. Somehow I became interested in the award system of the Third Reich. It turned out that there were imperial awards, the cat was crying, but mostly "regional". Such a salyanka, starting with the absence of a single nation, is not suitable for expansion. A nationwide idea was required. This was the legend of the ancient Aryans. Ukraine. Well, everything is clear here. Statehood since 1991 of the year ...
              Russia. That’s why a fictional story is not clear to us.
              1. venaya
                venaya 5 January 2018 17: 27
                +1
                Quote: avva2012
                two countries, Germany of the 30s and Ukraine modern. Neither the history of the state was there or there. .. Russia. That’s why a fictional story is not clear to us.

                Here I am about the same. Why invent all kinds of fake "Stories", is it not better to just figure out that today it already has enough evidence of a really scientific sense. And then how it turns out: that "Ukraine", that Germany "- that one. That the other is only essentially the outskirts of Ancient Russia (there were other names that did not change the essence), hence the" need ", or rather the desire to come up with something , and of course, to your advantage. So no more fake "Stories" are needed, you just need to collect what is already there and from here draw quite acceptable conclusions.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 5 January 2018 17: 57
                  +4
                  As you have, everything is twisted! After all, Germany and Ukraine are given, by me, as confirmation of the thesis that they are political losers at the moment when they began to confuse history with mysticism. Russia, a state with a history that few modern countries have. That's right, Third Rome. Why come up with? Mysticism and fantasy, yes, like literature, has a right to exist. But it is impossible to put V. Solovyov and N. Perumov in the same row.
                  1. venaya
                    venaya 5 January 2018 18: 28
                    +1
                    Quote: avva2012
                    After all, Germany and Ukraine are given, as I confirm the thesis that they are political losers .. Russia, a state with such a history, which few modern countries have. .. Why come up with?

                    I constantly talk about this and say that there is nothing to come up with if there are exhaustive studies on this subject. There is no need to invent anything, you just need to publish only that which has quite serious scientific justifications. Another thing is that no one will do this, since everything invented (that is, glitches) has long been published. And now what to do with them? After all, admit that the academics of the Academies are losers, crooks and something not decent, then what to give them? I read somewhere that ak. Pokrovsky, if he had lived a little longer, he would have let them go as a waste, and yet you don’t like this with respect to the current academicians, so they use their privileges, further messing up the brains of an honest person. The situation today is almost stalemate, but you have to look for a way out and not raise your legs up.
                  2. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 6 January 2018 06: 52
                    +2
                    And the migration of peoples is so twisted and it was not one.
              2. parusnik
                parusnik 5 January 2018 19: 06
                +3
                A nationwide idea was required. This was the legend of the ancient Aryans.
                .... By the way, this "small town" did not allow the socialist revolution to develop in Germany in 1918, but this is only one of the reasons .. And the legend of the ancient Aryans united the "towns" ...
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 5 January 2018 17: 18
              +6
              I have long assumed that the desire to rewrite the history of your country is a sign of defeatist psychology.
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 5 January 2018 18: 03
                +5
                Not even defeatist, but some unfinished business. What Germany, construct, what Ukraine. As they say, philologists, there is still no German language. About Ukrainian, looking at night, we will not remember at all.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 5 January 2018 18: 40
                  +3
                  But it’s interesting, the stepdaughter (let’s say so), returned from Cologne three days ago, she is fluent in German, she takes classes for a year and a half, but there she had to switch to English, because the local language constructions do not correspond to literary German.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 5 January 2018 19: 33
                    +1
                    Yeah. In England, English is not as literary, of course, as we were taught in the Soviet school, but in general it is understandable, although local people who hear our English make round eyes. It is perceived, approximately, as in the village to speak, "gracious sovereign, you will not be so kind ..". But, nevertheless, the language is one. And in Germany, such a whistle.
                  2. Cat
                    Cat 5 January 2018 19: 34
                    +4
                    Everything is fine, as a cadet I shlopat "ud" in rhetoric for anorhizm "wipe from the clean" - "wipe the dust!" I was told what language do you speak young man? Fought off with the Dahl dictionary. The words “Zakuta”, “seed”, “yelan”, “backyard”, “picnic”, etc. periodically perplexed both my work colleagues and the specialized departments of the universities where I worked. Gamayun however!
                    Just recently, I came across in Orsk with the word in the procedural document - to hobble.
                    Rosya is a mother and a golden basket for an ethmologist and philologist!
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 5 January 2018 20: 23
                      +1
                      For all that, we understand each other without any problems. A German for a German may be dumb.
                      1. Cat
                        Cat 5 January 2018 23: 38
                        +1
                        So tea has been living in one state for eleven centuries!
                        All dialectic shifts, dialects and other phonetic and semantic differences prove one thing, that the Russian language is lively and dynamically developing. By the way, both Catherines (and both ethnically non-Russians) did a lot to preserve the Russian language. But it was not possible to overcome a number of borrowings in this way. For example, the "accountant" on the "accountant" could not be changed.
                2. Curious
                  Curious 5 January 2018 22: 23
                  +3
                  Interesting, Doctor, where did you get acquainted with the Ukrainian language? Or are you on the principle of "did not read, but condemn"?
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 6 January 2018 06: 48
                    +1
                    But what language is there? Sorry, but surzhik he is surzhik. A variant of Russian and, as Kotische writes, "Russian is a living and dynamically developing language." So it is developing.
                    1. Curious
                      Curious 6 January 2018 11: 04
                      +2
                      Yes, I’m sorry, but you should remember that ignorance is not so much ignorance, it is so much a psychological setting. And your answer inspires concern in this regard.
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 6 January 2018 13: 36
                        0
                        Well, don’t hi, Viktor Nikolaevich, he won’t leave me.
                        It seems to me that the majority of active site participants in this section would like to see the future of the country in the form of the USSR 2.0 or RI 2.0. And in order for this state to form, you need to understand that Ukrainians, Belarusians and Russians are one people and one language, but with different dialects. And also remember that on the former territory in 1 / 6 part of the land, there is a superethnos that either will exist together or parts of it are separated by neighbors. Most likely without a trace.
        2. Spnsr
          Spnsr 8 January 2018 22: 58
          +1
          Quote: Fedorovich
          7 Fedorovich ↑  
          5 January 2018 12: 42
          And the "Woeful Song of the Ruin of the Hungarian Aorolism by the Tatars" was also invented in the Vatican for "about
          you probably haven’t read it, there are transcripts, whom they mean by the Tatars!
  20. renics
    renics 5 January 2018 11: 17
    +7
    This topic is for learned historians, not bloggers. Here in the comments you can award something that you can’t even dream about in a dream.
    1. venaya
      venaya 5 January 2018 11: 35
      +2
      Quote: renics
      This topic is for learned historians, not bloggers.

      Note: historians are on a salary, and any such discussion can end for them not only with financial costs, but as their many centuries of practice confirms, they can even end with torture with fatal consequences.
      1. renics
        renics 6 January 2018 04: 55
        0
        Well, yes, everyone is sitting on the salary, but what do you want to starve them to hunger? For this, there are procedures defined in the scientific world for protecting someone who has developed scientific concepts or discoveries that must also be protected by presenting them for criticism in authoritative world journals, as well as scientific commissions of various kinds. And the whole blogging scribble presented does not represent anything, since it is not represented in any academic scientific community (I’m not even talking about those with a worldwide reputation) and has not been proved by anyone. And your answer is just a quote from various samples of ideological propaganda clichés apparently thoroughly memorized by your person. And when you publish your comments, you don’t even have any idea about it to judge it. About such people say. Upstart.
    2. groks
      groks 5 January 2018 14: 50
      +3
      Who are the historians? Do they understand at least something? Already all experts openly scoff at them, up to horse breeders. And to give more than these strange people is no longer possible.
      Once, only the presence of a normal linguist saved the world from the appearance of the ancient Greek goddess, whose name, translated into Russian, would have sounded like Nessaka. It is from that word.
      1. renics
        renics 6 January 2018 04: 57
        +1
        Such ignoramuses as you who openly imagine that you are academics with an eight-year-old or maybe a secondary education with grief in half are openly scoffing.
        1. groks
          groks 6 January 2018 09: 37
          +2
          Any arguments other than swearing? Any material evidence of the existence of the great Tatar-Mongolia? For an educated person, this will not be very difficult to indicate.
          Here we have two stud farms in the region. He asked how much the maximum herd size on the pasture can be. They said that under ideal conditions - 30000 goals.
          1. long in stock.
            long in stock. 6 January 2018 12: 36
            +4
            and you didn’t ask what kind of horse breed in the factories? if the Oryol men or Budennovka don’t stretch out on the pasture, but if the Mongolians ... they can eat everything and everywhere. I’ll be grateful to kmc for equestrianism even with the union. yes and groups drove tourists on horseback. So I have an idea how and when to feed a horse ... and there is enough material evidence, do you need to dig a barn that says nothing in the capital? Well, or go to a historical museum in Moscow. There’s a whole department According to the Mongols, what arguments do you have besides mythical haplogroups? And they completely ignore the same traditions that the Buryats Kazakhs and other nomads left about the Mongols. They also rewrote the history more precisely ...
            1. groks
              groks 6 January 2018 13: 56
              +2
              Why ask there. Where did these small horses come from at the Khrenovsky stud farm? But this is not easier. Let it be not 30, but 40. No horses at all in winter will survive on the past in Russia. Because not enough food, but simply no food.
              A barn was excavated near Astrakhan - what does the Mongols have to do with it? More than 75 people do not succeed there, although this is a huge city for those times. But these are not Mongolian shepherds in a million numbers.
              Here is a list of departments of the Historical http://www.shm.ru/kollektsii-i-muzeynyy-kompleks/
              nauchno-khranitelskie-otdely / otdely /
              Where to look?
              In general, the presence of any cities contradicts the version of altistorics about nomads who do not have cities - they are nomads.
              I did not say anything about haplogroups, but why did they become mythical? Genetics has now become an exact science and it is ridiculous to argue with it, only on the basis that it is unknown who wrote something, it is unknown when, and then everything was copied from him.
              Buryats Mongoloids. But not the Mongols. They have very interesting legends about Baikal, but not at all about the conquest of Russia.
              1. long in stock.
                long in stock. 6 January 2018 18: 12
                +2
                genetics yes. but haplogroups ... if you believe them, for example, in Tajikistan alone protorusses live. as long as there are more myths and trepidations around this matter than truth. about horses, a pedigree horse, especially a horse riding on grass and will not last in summer. More precisely, it will survive but not carry a rider can. but the Mongolian -maybe. which is now successfully proved to the same topic by the Mongols. Or do you think that they sow oats for their horses and sheep? I will disappoint you, they will manage to give the steppe. And they don’t live. Now Astrakhan. Have you seen the excavation? so there is a typical city of Central Asia. to recall who the Mongols passed through to Russia? nomads both lived in yurts and live and the city is already for nobility and production. why there? the terrain for nomads is favorable and again the trade route is settled. so there are no contradictions to logic here. so there were no problems with discipline — and the Mongols had logistics too — which was also not a problem for Chinese officials and engineers, they also had no problems getting to Russia.
                1. groks
                  groks 6 January 2018 20: 43
                  +2
                  However, genetics themselves recognize this part, and if they dispute it, then only interpret the results. Well i.e. the notorious R1a is there but it appeared as a result of not that, but this.
                  Again. In winter, in Russia, ANY horse has absolutely nothing. And the reindeer also has nothing.
                  A small horse carries less load, more clockwork is required. So increasing from 30 to 40, we do not get an increase in the number of riders.
                  The Mongols came under Astrakhan. Let us suppose. Founded the city - all of a sudden. Although they didn’t. Okay. Then what did they do? Normal nomads went on the raids, and certainly did not try to win something. Especially if it's something kilometers per thousand.
                  Nomads do not have to talk about any discipline. And what discipline can there be if, leaving these great campaigns, the nomads would doom their families to death? Now to collect all the Mongol men for a sufficiently long time to hell on the pies and that's it - there will be no Mongols in nature.
                  1. long in stock.
                    long in stock. 7 January 2018 12: 35
                    +1
                    in the first place it was not only the Mongols. or rather, far from the Mongols. the Mongols are managers and elite units. The rest was all that was collected along the way. By that time it was no longer just a horde, but an organization. The capture of China and Central Asia taught a lot. plus you completely forget that they already had bases on the way — the same Bulgars, for example. they didn’t come for 1 time. And I tell you again, the horses live and feed in the steppe. Until now. I brought Mongolia to you for a reason An example. And about how the nomads did not try to conquer and build something, you tell the Seljuk Turks. About discipline in the Mongolian army, a lot of things have been written for a long time. It makes no sense to retype.