The myth of the "Tatar-Mongol yoke"

734
780 years ago, 1 January 1238, the remnants of the Ryazan troops and the army of Vladimir-Suzdal Russia were defeated by the Batu army at the battle of Kolomna. This decisive battle was the second after the Battle of Kalka the battle of the united Russian troops against the "Mongols". By the number of troops and perseverance, the battle near Kolomna can be considered one of the most significant events of the invasion.

As noted earlier, the myth of the “Mongols from Mongolia” was thought up in the conceptual and ideological center of the West, which stores the “keys” of stories, in papal Rome. Russian superethnos (Russ) has existed since the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has already at least 40 - 45 thousand years. but the true history of Russia and super-ethnos was “circumcised” and distorted in the interests of the masters of the West and their lackeys, serfs in Russia, who want at any cost to become part of the “world civilized community”, at least at the price of surrender of the motherland. Since the true story is dangerous to the owners of the West, claiming world domination. And Russians try to plunge Russians into ignorance, turn them into "ethnographic material." Finally dismember and assimilate, turn into slaves a new world order, as the Russian- "Ukrainians". This is beneficial to both the masters of the West and the East. Russians are perfectly assimilated, they become Chinese, Turks, Arabs, Germans, French, Americans, etc. At the same time, they bring in fresh blood, often being creators of creators, giving impetus to the development of civilizations, countries and nationalities of which they become.



In the West, they cannot recognize that Russia-Russia, as a geopolitical reality, has always existed, and appeared before the most western project and civilization. Moreover, the superethnos of the Rus always occupied the territory of Northern Eurasia.

Under the term "Mongols" in the XIII - XIV centuries. In no case should real Mongoloids be taken living in the lands of present-day Mongolia. The self-name, the real ethnonym of the autochthons of present-day Mongolia is Khalkha. They did not call themselves Mongols. And they never seized China, did not reach the Caucasus, Persia-Iran, Asia Minor, the Northern Black Sea region and Russia. Khalkhu, Oirats are anthropological Mongoloids, then they were a poor nomadic community, consisting of separate genera. They were primitive shepherds and hunters who were at a very low primitive communal level of development and under no circumstances could create even the simplest proto-state education, not to mention the kingdom and empire of the global level of significance. For this, we needed a state tradition, a high level of spiritual and material culture, a developed economy capable of equipping the armies of tens of thousands of soldiers. Primitive Mongoloid tribes were at the level of the development of the then Indian tribes of the Amazon or North America. That is, even with the most fantastic luck and lucky circumstances, they could not crush China, Khorezm, the kingdom of the Caucasus, the powerful tribes of the Polovtsy and the Alans, defeat Russia and invade Europe.

Anthropological studies of burial grounds of the XIII - XV centuries. also show the absolute absence in Russia of the Mongoloid element. Modern genetic studies confirm the absence of the Mongoloid element in the Russian population. Although if the myth of the "Mongol" invasion was true - with hundreds of thousands of invaders, thousands of destroyed and burned Russian villages and cities, tens of thousands of people taken into slavery. With a long “Mongolian” yoke (up to 1480 of the year) with attendant invasions, raids, battles, the withdrawal of the masses of people in full, etc. However, any war (just look at the massacre in modern Iraq and Syria) is accompanied by massive violence against women and by girls. Women are always booty of a successful conqueror. However, the Mongol element is not! This fact, which is impossible to challenge. The Russians, in spite of the false myths that concoct in the West, were and remain the Northern Caucasians.

Thus, the "Mongol" invasion was not. And the "Mongol" empire was not. But the cruel war as such was. There were bloody and fierce battles, sieges of cities and fortresses, pogroms, fires, looting, etc. There was an Horde-Rada, tribute-tithing, labels, treaties, tsars-khans, joint campaigns of Russians and "Mongols", etc. Everything described by the chronicles was, this is confirmed by the data of archeology.

However, the Mongols did not invade Russia. In the forest-steppe zone of Eurasia from the Caucasus and the Black Sea to Altai and the Sayans, including Inner Mongolia, at this time there lived the late Russes of the Scythian-Siberian world, the heirs of the Great Scythia, the Aryan and the Boreal world. Hundreds of powerful genera united by language (Russian is the true keeper of ancient history, therefore, they are trying to distort and destroy it, which would deprive us of the last source of spiritual power), by the Boreal-Aryan traditions of superethnos, by a single pagan faith. Only the Rus could put thousands of well-armed and trained fighters, warriors in many generations. The mighty fair-haired and light-eyed Rus-northerners. Hence the myths of the late Mongolian and Turkic nationalities about high, fair-haired (red), light-eyed giant ancestors, it is a memory that part of the Rus was assimilated by the later Mongolian and Turkic peoples, giving them khan, princely and noble families.

Only these Ruses were able to make such a great march, largely repeating the glorious deeds of distant ancestors, which brought development impulses to China, reached the Indus and created Indian and Iranian civilizations, laid the foundations of Rome in Europe through the Etruscan races, Ancient Greece (all the gods of Olympus are of northern origin), Celtic (Scythian-chipped) and Germanic worlds. That's who the real "Mongols" were. Rusam of the Scythian-Siberian world, the heirs of the Great Scythia, the Aryan world and Hyperborea - the great northern civilization that occupied the territory of modern Russia, could not be resisted by anyone. They crushed and conquered China, giving it the ruling elite and the Russian guard guarding the emperors. They subjugated Central Asia, returning it to the bosom of the great northern empire. Since ancient times, Central Asia has been a part of Great Scythia.

In a campaign to the west, the Scythian-Siberian Rusians defeated the Tatars of the Urals and the Volga region, annexed them to their Horde (from the Russian clan - horde, ordnung). Other fragments of the Great Scythia - the Tatar-Bulgars (Volgaris), Polovtsy and Alans defeated and subjugated to themselves. Moreover, the Tatars were then pagans of the common Boreal (northern) tradition, and not so long ago separated from the Boreal ethno-linguistic and cultural community and Mongoloid impurity did not yet have (unlike the Crimean Tatars genus). Until the XIII the differences between the Russians and the Volgar Tatars were extremely insignificant. They appeared later - after the Islamization of the Bulgars-Volars and parallel Mongolization as a result of the penetration of Mongolian carriers into the Volga region.

Thus, the "Tatar-Mongol" invasion is a myth invented in papal Rome to destroy and distort the true history of humanity and Russia. It was an invasion of Scythian-Siberian pagan Russians, who dragged into their army the pagans of the Tatar-Volgaras, the pagans of the Polovtsi (also close relatives of the Russians of Ryazan and Kiev), the Alans, and the inhabitants of Central Asia who had not yet lost their Scythian roots. As a result, a fierce clash occurred between the pagan Russes of Asia and the Russo-Christians (mostly dvoyverov) Ryazan, Vladimir-Suzdal and Chernihiv, Kiev, Galitsko-Volyn Rus. Tales about the "Mongols from Mongolia", like the beautiful, but historically false novels of V. Yang, must be forgotten.

The battle was fierce. Rusas fought with the Rus, carriers of the oldest military tradition of the planet. As a result, the Scythian-Siberian Russes took up and, relying on the conquered kingdoms and tribes, including Russia, created the Great "Mongolian" empire. Later, this empire, under the conceptual and ideological influence of the hostile centers of the West and the East, began to be reborn and degrade. The main role in the degradation of the Golden (more correctly, White) Horde was played by Islamization and arabization. A huge influx of Arabs attracted by gold led to the victory of Islam over the ancient boreal tradition. The elite of the Horde chose to accept Islam, destroying noble births that remained faithful to the old faith, and repelling from themselves the masses of ordinary Horde, who remained faithful to the old tradition. Also, on the outskirts of the empire, the process of assimilation was actively going on - the Rus after a few generations became Chinese, “Mongols”, Turks, etc. This led to the collapse of the empire. And the history of the Eurasian Empire-Horde came to us in the "crooked mirrors" of Muslim, Chinese and Western sources, where they tried to clear the silence about the moments they did not need.

However, the northern empire and tradition did not perish. The period of dual faith in Russia ended with the emergence of fiery Russian Orthodoxy, which absorbed much of the ancient northern tradition (Almighty - Rod, Jesus - Horse, Mother of God - Mother Lada, Mother, George the Victorious - Perun, cross and fire cross - swastika-kolovrat - have millennial roots in superethnos, etc.). Kulikovo Field has shown that a new center of attraction has emerged for the entire Russian, including the Horde, who did not accept the Islamization of their elite. For a half century, this new center was able to restore the main core of the empire. The first king-emperor of the new Russian empire should recognize Ivan Vasilyevich the Terrible (hence to him such hatred from the Russian Westernizers and the masters of the West). In his reign, Russia began to restore positions in the south, in the Caucasus and in the Caspian Sea, with one blow returned all the Volga region (Kazan and Astrakhan), opened the way to Siberia.

The indigenous population of these territories, the descendants of the Scythian-Sarmatian population, returned under the hand of a single imperial center and tradition. It is now becoming clear that in the late Middle Ages, as before, the entire inner continental Eurasia, as Western sources called it the “Great Tataria” from the Danube, the Dnieper and the Don to Siberia, was inhabited by descendants of the Scythian-Sarmatians, that is, the Russ, direct Russian brothers from Novgorod, Moscow and Tver. Not surprisingly, then in the eyes of Western Europe, the concepts of "Russia" and "Tataria" meant the same thing. We have always been barbarians, wild “Mongol-Tatars” for the inhabitants of the West. Although in the XIV - XVI centuries. Siberia was inhabited by no “Tatars” or “Mongols”, but white people, surprisingly similar to the ancient Scythians and modern Russians (one kind and tradition).

Milestones of the invasion

At the meetings of the "Mongolian" nobility 1229 and 1235. it was decided to go west. The rate was located in the lower reaches of the Yaik. Separate groups of "Mongols" began the conquest of the Transcaucasus and the North Caucasus. Tabriz was seized in 1231, and Ganja in 1235. Many Armenian and Georgian cities were captured: Kars, Karin (Erzerum), Ani, Tbilisi, Dmanisi, Samshvilde and others. Subudei's detachment made a trip to the country of aces (Alans) in 1236. Then Mengu Khan and Kadan went to the Circassians.

In 1229, the Great Kahan (Kagan) Ugedei sent troops of the western part of the state - the Juchi Ulus - to help the advanced detachments. The "Mongols" carried out a reconnaissance march on Yaik, defeated the troops of the Polovtsi, the Saxins and the Bulgarians-Bulgarians. The Bulgarians-Volgari, realizing the danger from the east, made peace with Vladimir-Suzdal Russia. In 1332, a large "Mongol" army reached the border of Volga Bulgaria. But the Bulgarians repelled this blow. For several years, the "Mongols" fought with the Bulgarians, who put up stubborn resistance. Volga Bulgaria successfully defended itself by erecting powerful fortified lines along the southern frontiers. At the same time, the Horde continued to crush the resistance of the Polovtsy, the struggle against which lasted for several years.

In 1235, according to Rashid-ad-Din, Ogedei II arranged a large council (kurultai) "regarding the destruction and extermination of other recalcitrant peoples, the decision was made to take possession of the Bulgars, Asov and Russia countries, which were located next to the Batu campsite, were not yet conquered and were proud of their multiplicity. " To help Batu sent 14 noble khans, the descendants of Genghis Khan. The number of invading army reached 150 thousand soldiers. Usually, each of the Chingizid princes commanded tumen-darkness, that is, 10, thousand cavalry corps.

Thus, the "Mongols" gathered a huge army, which included troops from all uluses (regions). At the head of the troops stood the grandson of Genghis Khan, Batu (Batu). In 1236, the Horde troops came to Kama. All summer, the detachments moving from different uluses moved to their destination, and in the fall, “within the borders of Bulgaria, the princes joined together. From the multitude of troops, the land groaned and hummed, and wild animals and predatory animals were dumbfounded by the multitude and noise of the hordes. In the late autumn the fortifications of Bulgaria-Bulgaria fell. In fierce battles Volga Bulgaria was completely devastated. The storm was taken the capital of the Bulgarians (Bulgar), famous for the inaccessibility of the area and a large population. In the Russian chronicle it was noted: "And I took the glorious great city of Bulgaria (Bolgar) and beat the weapon from the elder to the young and to the real child, and took the goods many, and burned the city with their fire, and capture all their land." Other major Bulgarian cities were also destroyed: Bular, Kernek, Suvar and others. At the same time, the Mordovian and Burtass lands were devastated.

In the spring of 1237, the army of Batu, completing the pogrom of Bulgaria, moved into the Caspian steppes, where the struggle with the Polovtsy continued. The conquerors forced the Volga and a wide front (round up) combed the steppes. The raid was grandiose in size. The left wing of the invading army went along the coast of the Caspian Sea and further along the steppes of the North Caucasus to the lower reaches of the Don, the right wing moved northwards along the Polovtsian possessions. Here the corps of Guyuk Khan, Monke Khan and Mengu Khan attacked. The struggle with the Polovtsy lasted all summer. At the same time, the troops of Batu, Horde, Berke, Storm and Kulkan conquered land on the right bank of the Middle Volga.

In the winter of 1237, the invaders entered the Ryazan principality. Russia, divided by the feuds of the princes, did not deploy a single army and was doomed to defeat. Separate Russian squads and rati offered fierce and stubborn resistance in the field and on the walls of cities, in no way inferior to the militant invaders, but suffered defeat, inferior to the large and disciplined army. "Mongols" had the same organization (decimal system), weapon, but they had the opportunity to crush individual centers of resistance, breaking cities, lands and principalities separately. In addition, under the conditions of the “war of all against all”, the centuries-old system of defense from the steppe in the south was broken. Individual princes and lands could not support her full-fledged work. The single defense system of the country was replaced by the defense of each principality separately, and the tasks of defense against an external enemy were not the main ones. Fortifications were built mostly from their own. The steppe no longer seemed so dangerous as before. For example, in the Ryazan land from the steppes, the principality covered only Pronsk and Voronezh advanced far to the south. But from the north, from the direction of Vladimir-Suzdal Russia, Ryazan had a whole chain of strong fortifications. The exit from the Moskva River to the Oka was covered by Kolomna, Rostislavl fortress stood slightly higher along the Oka River, Borisov-Glebov, Pereyaslavl-Ryazansky, Ozhsk were located downstream the Oka. To the west, on the Sturgeon River, Zaraysk was located, to the east and north-east of Ryazan - Izheslavets and Isady.

The defeat at Kalka did not teach the Russian princes much; they did little to organize the defense and form a unified army, although they were well aware of the approaching formidable invading army. The news of the appearance of the “Mongols” after Kalki on the frontiers of Volga Bulgaria reached Russia. They knew in Russia and about the fighting on the border of Bulgaria. In 1236, the Russian chronicles reported the defeat of Bulgaria. Vladimir Grand Prince Yury Vsevolodovich was well aware of the threat: the main stream of refugees from the destroyed Volga region was in his possession. The Volgar-Bulgars then fled to the Rus in masses. Vladimir's prince "Velma was glad of this and ordered them to be raised to cities near the Volga and to others." Yuri Vsevolodovich was aware of the conquering plans of the “Mongolian” khans from Horde ambassadors, who repeatedly traveled to the west. They knew in Russia about the place where Horde troops gathered to march on Russia.

About where the troops of Batyi were gathering in the autumn of 1237, the Russians themselves “handed the words to the Hungarian monk Julian”. Hungarian monk Julian twice - in 1235 - 1236 and 1237 - 1238, traveled to Eastern Europe. The official purpose of the long and dangerous journey was the search for the Hungarians, who lived in the Urals and kept paganism to bring them to Christianity. But, apparently, the main task of the monk was strategic intelligence, undertaken by the papal throne to study the situation in Eastern Europe on the eve of the Horde invasion. Julian and his companions visited the Taman Peninsula, Alanya, the Lower Volga region, Bulgaria and the Ural region, Vladimir-Suzdal and South Russia.

Thus, there was no talk of a strategic suddenness of the invasion. It was possible that the fact of the winter offensive was new, the Russian princes got used to the autumn raids of the Polovtsi. After the defeat of Volga Bulgaria, the emergence in the Russian lands of the masses of refugees from the Volga region and the war in the Polovtsian steppes, which had a lot of ties with Russia, the closeness of the great war was obvious. Many advised the Grand Duke of Vladimir "to strengthen the cities and to agree with all the riches to the resistance, if the wicked Tatars came to his land, but he hoped for his strength, like before, it despised." As a result, each land met with the army of the invasion of Batu one on one. 100-150 thousand Horde army received complete superiority over individual cities and lands.

The myth of the "Tatar-Mongol yoke"

The story of the ruin of Ryazan Batu. Miniature. Facial arch of the XVI century.

The fall of Ryazan

Ryazan was the first to meet the invasion. In winter, 1237 of the year, the invaders entered the Ryazan principality: "That same summer, for the winter, coming from the eastern countries to Ryazan land, a forest of godless Tatars and pochashe voevati Ryazan land and the captives of (and) ...". The enemies reached Pronsk. From here they sent ambassadors to the Ryazan princes, demanding tithing (a tenth of the whole) than they owned. The princes of Ryazan, headed by Grand Duke Yuri Igorevich, gathered a council and gave an answer: "But if there is no us all, then all yours will be." Yuri Igorevich sent for help to Yuri Vsevolodovich in Vladimir and Mikhail Vsevolodovich in Chernigov. But neither of them helped Ryazan. Then the prince of Ryazan called princes from his land and from Murom. In order to draw time, they sent an embassy with Prince Fedor Yuryevich to Batu. Prince Fedor came to the river. Voronezh to the king Batu, Horde received gifts. But soon the dispute broke out and the ambassadors were killed.

Meanwhile, the land of Ryazan was preparing for an unprecedented battle. The men took axes and rattles, went to the cities in the militia. Women, children and old people went to the deep forests, to the Meshcherskaya side. For the border land of Ryazan, the war was common, the villages quickly became empty, people were buried in secluded places, behind impassable forests and marshes. After the departure, the steppe dwellers returned, rebuilt again. Before the terrible external threat, the Ryazan people did not flinch; the Russian people got used to meet the enemy with their breasts. The princes decided to bring the army into the field, towards the enemy. Upon learning of the death of the embassy, ​​Prince Yuri began to collect troops, and told other princes: “We'd rather die than be in the foul will!” The combined army of Ryazan land moved to the border. There were professional squads of princes and boyars, skillful fighters, well trained and armed, there was a city militia and Zemstvo army. The troops were led by Yuri Igorevich with nephews Oleg and Roman Ingvarevichi, Murom princes Yury Davydovich and Oleg Yuryevich.

According to historian V.V. Kargalov, the people of Ryazan did not have time to reach Voronezh and the battle took place on the border of the principality. According to the contemporaries, “they began to fight hard and courageously, and was slashing evil and terrible. Many shelves have fallen strong Batu. But Batu's strength was great, one Ryazan fought with a thousand, ... All the Tatar regiments marveled at the fortress and courage of Ryazan. And they barely overpowered their strong Tatar regiments. ” “Many local princes, strong and voivods, and the host: Ryazan bastards and rezvetsy. All the same, they died, and they drank a single cup of death. None of them returned: all the dead lay together ... ". However, Prince Yury Igorevich with a few warriors managed to break through and gallop away to Ryazan, where he organized the defense of the capital.

Horde cavalry rushed into the depths of Ryazan land, to the townships of Przemska, who were left without dead guards. “And they began to fight the Ryazan land, and ordered Batu to burn and whip without mercy. Both Pronsk hail, Belgorod hail, and Izheslavets ruined to the ground, and killed all the people without mercy, ”wrote the Tale of the Ruin of Ryazan by Batu.” Having defeated the towns of Przeczyn, the Batu army moved across the ice of the Proni river to Ryazan. 16 December 1237 Horde laid siege to the capital of the principality.

The Russian city was protected with all the skills of that time. Old Ryazan stood on the high right bank of the Oka, below the mouth of the Proni. On three sides the city was surrounded by powerful earthen ramparts and moats. On the fourth side to the Oka was a steep river bank. The ramparts reached a height of 9 - 10 m, with a base width of up to 23 - 24 m, the ditches in front of them were up to 8 m depth. On the shafts were wooden walls of log cabins filled for strength with rammed earth, clay and stones. Such walls were very resistant. The problem was that the main forces of Ryazan had already died in the battle of Voronezh.

The ranks of defenders during the assaults quickly thinned, and there was no replacement. Ryazan stormed day and night. "Batyovo army was replaced, and the townspeople fought continuously, - wrote a contemporary, - And many citizens were beaten, and others were wounded, and others from the great works were exhausted ...". The city beat enemy assaults for five days, and on the sixth of December 21, 1237 took it. Residents died or were captured. Prince Yuri Igorevich and the remnants of his squad were killed in a fierce street battle: "Wsi umrosha ...".

Then other Ryazan cities fell, and "not a single one from the princes ... you will not help each other ...". However, when the Horde moved farther north, they were suddenly attacked from the rear by a Russian squad. He was headed by voivode Evpaty Kolovrat, who was in Chernigov during the siege of Ryazan, trying to get help. But Mikhail of Chernigov refused to help, because “Ryazan did not go with them to Kalk”. Kolovrat returned to Ryazan and found ashes. He assembled 1700 fighters and began to beat the Horde.

“The Tale of the Ruin of Ryazan, Batu” says: “... chased after the godless king, Batu, to avenge Christian blood. And they caught up with him in the land of Suzdal, and suddenly attacked the camps of Batu. And they began to whip without mercy, and the Tatar regiments mixed up. ... The soldiers of Evpatiy beat them so mercilessly that their swords were dulled, and they took Tatar swords, cut them, passing Tatar regiments. Tatars also thought that the dead rebelled, and Batu himself was afraid. ... And he sent to Yevpaty the brother-in-law of his Household ruler, and with him many Tatar regiments. Khoztovrul praised Tsar Batu Yevpaty Kolovrat with the hands of the living to take and bring to him. And the shelves came together. Yevpaty hit the Khoztovrul-bogatyr and cut him with a sword in two to the saddle; and he began to infect the Tatar force, and beat many bogatyrs and Tatars, cut them in two, and others before the saddle. And they informed Batu. When he heard this, he grieved for his brother-in-law and commanded to impose many vices on Evpatiy, and began to beat on him, and barely managed to kill so strong-handed and audacious in heart and lvivogorostnogo Evpatiya. And they brought him dead to the king of Batu. Baty, seeing him, was surprised with his princes his courage and courage. And he commanded his body to give to his remaining squad, which in that battle was captivated. And ordered them to let go ... ". And the Tatar princes said to Batu: “We with many kings in many lands, visited many quarrels, and did not see such bastards and rezvetzs, and our fathers did not tell us. These people are cruel and have death, so hard and courageously fight, one with a thousand, and two with darkness. None of them can leave alive from the battlefield. And Baty himself said: “Oh, Evpaty Kolovrat! You beat up many strong heroes of my horde, and many regiments fell. If I served such a person, I would hold him against my heart! ”


Kolovrat. Artist Ozhiganov I. Ye.

To be continued ...
734 comments
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  1. +20
    5 January 2018 06: 04
    Now, bit by bit they are restoring our history. Sewing the once rich in events, and the ancient canvas of our people, torn by Western scholars, pseudo historians and simply charlatans. There was no Iga and the Tatar-Mongol invasion. All these are the notions of Western historians who either intentionally or from blunt conceit purposely distorted our history, inscribing non-existent pages into the book of our history, at the same time removing the truth from it.
    1. +15
      5 January 2018 06: 25
      The second time I read the article. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although of course it is impossible to say for sure. The story of this girl is the same as you turn it ...
      1. +20
        5 January 2018 06: 30
        Quote: 210ox
        The second time I read the article. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although of course it is impossible to say for sure. The story of this girl is the same as you turn it ...

        For example, tell this to Miller, with whom Lomonosov “fought” all his life. People like Miller rewrote our history, reducing it to a thousand years (and thanks for that no less), editing and castrating it to please the West, which always experienced its inferiority and weakness, being next to Russian civilization.
        1. +17
          5 January 2018 06: 57
          Quote: NEXUS
          It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although, of course, it is impossible to say for sure.

          Quote: NEXUS
          You, for example, tell Miller with whom Lomonosov "fought" all his life

          Quote: NEXUS
          There was no Iga and the Tatar-Mongol invasion. All these are the notions of Western historians who either intentionally or from blunt conceit purposely distorted our history, inscribing non-existent pages into the book of our history, at the same time removing the truth from it.

          Right now, adherents of academics and school books will fly in and will (despite our personal opinion, for I agree with you) accuse him of heresy and ignorance of the foundations of history, as well as be ranked among the Fomenkovites and tell that tithing is the worst thing with the “yoke” , yes, it’s so scary that the modern almost 30% of the tax (and in some places more) is a kindergarten compared to then tithe wassat
          And the evidence will be given by the arguments of modern historians, as irrefutable evidence of the existence of a yoke in the past. for they are true historians, and we who are agitating, and their fingers are not worth our unbelief in fairy tales drinks
          If anyone is interested, then in the evening I will tell you some moments from the modern history of my town (which has been more than a thousand years old according to official history), because now I need to run to work hi
          1. +28
            5 January 2018 10: 26
            See Klim Zhukov and enlighten. How much can you fuck up any.
            1. +3
              5 January 2018 18: 25
              Quote: Yarik
              See Klim Zhukov

              Well, yes, Klim Zhukov is a god and only he is right laughing tongue
              1. +8
                5 January 2018 19: 50
                Well, yes, Klim Zhukov is a god and only he is right

                No, not God. I suppose (I'm in theology ... not that ...) He argues, cites factual material as evidence. And not mythical.
                1. +1
                  18 January 2018 19: 19
                  The graphomanian little article is just plain waste laughing
                  The Russian superethnos (Russ) has existed from the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has at least 40 - 45 thousand years.

                  Bgagaga)) And somewhere in the coffin Levashov sprang up convulsively)) 40 pokes! Hahahahaaa)))
                  Paleontologists, archaeologists and historians tremble - Alexander Samsonov revealed the truth to the world !!!))
                  Samsonov - You did not write the whole truth! It was the Russian superethnos that exterminated the dinosaurs and didn’t give a damn about the proto-collar)))
                  ---
                  Burst out. But seriously, as a rule, such worldviews are the result of ignorance, laziness and childhood psychological trauma. Or disorder in life. I'm sorry for such people, really.
                  1. +1
                    18 January 2018 19: 26
                    By the way, if you use the VO search, you can see that similar articles on the topic of yoke are published with an enviable frequency of 1-2 once a year for sure.
                    Samsonov, You would come up with something new. Why do not update the manuals on the atral))
                  2. +1
                    18 January 2018 19: 52
                    Quote: Baikal
                    such worldviews are the result of ignorance, laziness and childhood psychological trauma. Or disorder in life. I'm sorry for such people, really.

                    The same applies to the editors of the Military Review.
                    Boulevard jaundice for the faint, not a military portal.
          2. +1
            5 January 2018 12: 58
            Rurikovich Today, 06:57
            Angela to work.
            We look forward to the history of your town.
            1. +35
              5 January 2018 14: 16
              Rurikovich Today, 06:57 ↑
              Right now, adherents of academics and school books will fly in and will (despite our personal opinion, for I agree with you) accuse him of heresy and ignorance of the foundations of history, as well as be ranked among the Fomenkovites and tell that tithing is the worst thing with the “yoke” , yes, it’s so scary that the modern almost 30% of the tax (and in some places more) is a kindergarten compared to the then tithe wassat
              Forgive me for importunity, and you ascribe yourself to which adherents? Or do you really believe this author’s nonsense?
              And they never captured China, never reached the Caucasus, Persia-Iran, Asia Minor, the Northern Black Sea Region and Russia. Khalkhu, Oirats - anthropological Mongoloids, then were a poor nomadic community, consisting of disparate genera. They were primitive shepherds and hunters who were at a very low primitive communal level of development and under no circumstances could create even the simplest proto-state entity, not to mention the kingdom and empire of global significance.
              I would like to ask Samsonov, on the basis of what such sources such "thoughtful" conclusions are made. It’s just a statement that the Mongols were so worthless, and the Russians are so advanced that they are no different from the same statements by a certain protestor of Bebik ... laughing Samsonov will soon surpass all protoucres with his "superethnos." fool
              And tell me what such sources have been found lately that would convincingly break the classical interpretation by the historians of the Tatar-Mongol invasion? Hungarians and Poles apparently also do not know their history, if they also believe that the troops of Batu reached them?
              With the same success, one can deny the conquests of Alexander of Macedon, as well as the existence of the Roman Empire or the Arab Caliphate. belay
              1. +9
                5 January 2018 18: 24
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                Forgive me for importunity, and you ascribe yourself to which adherents?

                I am on my own. request I need common sense and ordinary logic to be present. but if I start to suck in, that they voluntarily paid tithes. then such evidence is not accepted as common sense. Or, like, "on pain of the death penalty, incest was forbidden." Bullshit. And this is only in the description of "yoke" - the rest of the story does not speak of such "noble" conquests lol
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                Or do you really believe this author’s nonsense?

                I don’t argue, the author went a lot where, but at least he expressed his opinion, just explained it in his own way.
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                And tell me what such sources have been found lately that would convincingly break the classical interpretation by the historians of the Tatar-Mongol invasion?

                And how many sources have appeared to prove it laughing historians interpret history in their own way, people in their own way, that’s the whole gimmick. Some are right that they are scientists make others believe in the nonsense they prove.
                Darwinism was also unquestioned, and so what. Today, stupidly only a ossified apologist for history will believe in him. But scientists, by no means, can in any way admit that they were mistaken, for everything that their faith rested on would collapse. I personally say the same thing about historians regarding the yoke
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                With the same success, one can deny the conquests of Alexander of Macedon, as well as the existence of the Roman Empire or the Arab Caliphate

                Another 20 years and everyone will believe that America took Berlin, and the USSR did not even participate, and you want to make me believe in the stories of historians about cases 800 years ago laughing ? hi
                1. +1
                  18 January 2018 19: 45
                  The problem is that you are completely unaware of what history and the principles of historical methodology are. This happens, as I already wrote, from ignorance, disorder in life, and most importantly - laziness, the desire to justify complex things with simple explanations that fall into the understanding of the world from their positions and their limited experience ... Continue, it turns out funny)) laughing



                  This is your greetings from Kapova cave near Ufa, in which
                  From the article: Russian superethnos (Russ) exists ... 40 - 45 thousand years

                  Russian superethnos made purely Russian superethnic drawings 15-17 thousand years ago laughing
                  1. +1
                    18 January 2018 20: 57
                    What's wrong with that? These are elephants, ordinary Russian-Aryan elephants,
                    what.
              2. +11
                6 January 2018 11: 07
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                With the same success, one can deny the conquests of Alexander of Macedon, as well as the existence of the Roman Empire or the Arab Caliphate.

                Hmm ... Wait a minute, those "experts" who are now "eliminating" the Mongol yoke with might and main, receive money for the completed order, pull the viskar and ... are ready to proceed with the next order! "Drown" A.Makedonsky? Soak! Erase Caliphate from cards? Bury it! We take on the price list ... even tugriks, if only in more! bully
              3. +4
                6 January 2018 13: 41
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                do not differ from the same statements of a certain protector Bebik.

                only recently wrote that every nation has such
                it’s customary to laugh only at strangers ...
                1. +1
                  18 January 2018 19: 36
                  Well, our people definitely have a tradition of laughing at fools laughing
                  And their friends or strangers - it does not matter))
              4. +10
                7 January 2018 02: 34
                It is still unknown who is closer to the proto-Ukrainian version of world history - you with your "classic" ideas about history or the author.
                I believe it is no secret to anyone that, first of all, the party that has gained an advantage in political battles is rewriting the history of other states and peoples. So you yourself cited Ukraine as an example .. it just works, efficiently and in the long term (for many generations).

                The questions posed in the article are adequate and require more in-depth study.

                In my opinion, the so-called "Tatar-Mongol invasion" is a Western interpretation of the civil war in Russia, in which the eastern part of Russia, which retained the old pagan faith, did not accept the Western imposition of a new faith and culture on us, came into conflict with another part of Russia, which It turned out to be more influenced by the West, as a result also went to the Russian princes, who became the guides of Western values ​​to Russia, historically always closer than those located in the western part of Russia, due primarily to geographical reasons.

                And since the "advanced" West always rightly considered Russian civilization to be the main competitors in global politics, the terms barbarians, Tatars, Mongoloids and so on, especially with reference to the bearers of pagan traditions, came up and fits perfectly in historical and political discussions on the topic.
            2. +4
              5 January 2018 18: 32
              Quote: Hoc vince
              We look forward to the history of your town.

              Well, if you are interested, I’ll only tell you a case that made me doubt at the moment the desire of historians to convey the truth to the ears (eyes) of the people hi
              I live in a small town Turov (Belarus)

              On the Internet you can easily find an excursion into the history of the Principality of Turov. So, in the picture in the foreground is a hill fort with a shelter (we call it a sarcophagus) over the excavated ruins of a 12th-century temple

              During reconstruction, the city during its heyday had this appearance

              We compare the modern look and the expected one and see that, in principle, the place of the temple fits in with the excavations (today it is a museum)
              1. +9
                5 January 2018 18: 46
                Quote: Rurikovich
                (today it is a museum)

                Let's continue. And here’s a tower like Kamenetskaya

                also present. And even in the alleged place on the detinets there was an elevation. If you believe the story, then it was disassembled in 1830 by decree from above. But in the wake of euphoria from the found temple, they decided to unearth it too (all the same, the exposition of Castle Hill would be more complete with the foundation of a powerful defensive structure - agree Yes ) but when they laid a powerful pit, they excavated .... a 7x7m brick cross, but not part of the round foundation

                It was made of brick, not plinfa, which would make the structure dated to one period. Without knowing what to do with it, first they covered

                A visible square shelter of brown color almost in the center of the picture, and then quickly fell asleep under a trifling pretext. And for more than ten years there has been dead silence ... For the found artifact does not at all combine with the speculations of historians. And it’s most likely that fears to revise the history, justified by the banal lack of funds, which seems cynical to me, just prevent me from getting to work and getting to the truth.
                Here you have the attitude of historians to the evidence base. It seems to dig more and find out what is there, but .... silence request hi
                Why did I tell you exactly this, because the moment is interesting, not advertised (slipped in the news and quickly died out), and my homeland. But to explain why some kind of cross, and not a tower, historians can not ..... or do not want ... Academics hi
                1. +3
                  5 January 2018 19: 40
                  Rurikovich Today, 18:32
                  Rurikovich Today, 18:46
                  Thank you It was interesting.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
          3. +13
            5 January 2018 15: 25
            Quote: Rurikovich
            Right now, adherents of academics and school books will fly in and will be (despite our personal opinion ...

            So I want to listen to your personal opinion, dear Rurikovich, do you consider people like Klyuchevsky, Solovyov, Ilovaysky and many other outstanding historians cretins?
            Personally, I am of the opinion of Gumilyov, who denied the Mongol-Tatar yoke in its “classical” form, and spoke of internecine wars involving the Turkic element. Or do you deny it? There were no numerous Turkic princes and khans? Russian princes probably fought with the Hyperboreans? fellow
            Such wars with the involvement of external forces have always been (Polovtsy, Pechenegs), but there was an overkill with Turkic tribes such that the Russian ethnic group almost ceased to exist.
            In the history of the Mongol-Tatar yoke (as in other historical periods) there are many controversial issues. Fakes like Fomenko and a hedgehog like him also use this. This is an entire industry that parasitizes on our ignorance and simply elementary illiteracy.
            1. +7
              5 January 2018 18: 12
              Quote: Proxima
              So I want to listen to your personal opinion, dear Rurikovich,

              Ok
              Quote: Proxima
              Do you consider such people as Klyuchevsky, Solovyov, Ilovaysky and many other prominent historians cretins?

              You yourself a priori exalted certain people and ascribe to me what I should think about them with my opinion wink This is the usual cheap provocation negative If these historians are great (everyone decides for himself) on the basis of their work, then this does not mean that what they wrote is the ultimate truth. Are they the same age as Nevsky or Donskoy to read their opinion true? No. Therefore, they are no better than today's mystifiers of history. If you consider them great - your right request
              Quote: Proxima
              Personally, I am of the opinion of Gumilyov, who denied the Mongol-Tatar yoke in its “classical” form, and spoke of internecine wars involving the Turkic element. Or do you deny it?

              So how many years have I been saying this thing !!!!! laughing My personal opinion was that there was no yoke, but there was a banal period in the life of peoples in a certain territory with their internecine squabbles, their prosperity (and the neighborhood “yoke” with the mass construction of churches doesn’t fit in with anything - but your scientists still impose their "yoke"), with their tax system, etc. But no - you need to come up with some kind of conquest and stupidly defend it. Here is my opinion - whatever you want, but not the wretchedly imposed "Tatar-Mongol yoke" hi
              Quote: Proxima
              There were no numerous Turkic princes and khans?

              Yes, today take any multinational country and start studying its linguistics, there are so many parallels that can be seen in relation to different interpretations of one word (name, thing, title, etc.)!
              Quote: Proxima
              Russian princes probably fought with the Hyperboreans? fellow

              Yes, they fought among themselves without impurities of different Mongols there laughing ...
              Quote: Proxima
              In the history of the Mongol-Tatar yoke (as in other historical periods) there are many controversial issues

              Yes our whole story is controversial issues Yes
              Quote: Proxima
              Fakes like Fomenko and a hedgehog like him also use this.

              And here, be careful - with many of them lacking in the interpretation of other controversial issues, they are strong in dating and if you read a little, one date is proved in different ways. So here they are by no means worse than your venerable historians wink Only some of them declared themselves a priori inviolable, while the rest was heresy, while others only suggested their point of view regarding history. So be careful ... But for myself, I do not exclude either one or the other, if their evidence base matches the usual logic and common sense
              Quote: Proxima
              This is an entire industry that parasitizes on our ignorance and simply elementary illiteracy.

              See a little higher. At least they do not blame historians for mortal sins, unlike historians. So historians are not angels either wink hi
              1. +17
                5 January 2018 21: 47
                Rurikovich, I like you. Without irony and, of course, only as an opponent in disputes.
                Regarding your example with the donor tower — didn’t you recognize that the tower was built in the 16th – 17th centuries, and not in the 12th – 13th centuries, as you thought before, on the basis of the studies you described? Historians know how to admit their mistakes if their constructions begin to run counter to common sense. However, argue that in the XII century. on the same spot of the tower it WASN’T, too, would be too hasty. It is possible that it was, but with subsequent construction, its foundation was destroyed.
                Now about the main thing - about the Mongols of our beloved, who, as some believe, were not, respectively, there was no invasion, and yoke.
                Even such an orthodox author as Samsonov, in his current incarnation, once agreed that there was an invasion. Previously, nothing prevented him from ignoring any facts, now he ignores them selectively - it’s already progress. So, the invasion still was. During this invasion, Russia suffered a military defeat of colossal proportions, as evidenced by the burnt cities, numerous mass graves and other archaeological traces. Note that I do not specifically mention written sources (annals, chronicles, memoirs, etc.) - only archaeological. The result of the military defeat was a sharp drop in the cultural level of the population of Russia - again, archaeological studies show a significant simplification of craft products, construction, the lack of literature is striking, in short, the defeat affected all sectors of life. Russia in its development was thrown back a hundred years ago. For example, the first stone structure, of any significant size, was built in Russia only 50 years after the invasion. Before that, they built almost every year.
                Samsonov and the chorus’s relatives say that it’s not some Mongols who organized this rout, but their own, like, Scythian-Russians, or whatever they call it. not a single evidence of the existence of any Slavic state in the Urals and Siberia in the XIII century. they don’t imagine that it’s not surprising, because they are not there, at least for now (if we do - we’ll review historical concepts and admit mistakes), and instead of proof they give gray-haired legends and phonetic harmonies, none of which will pass the examination of any qualified historical linguist. And since written sources completely refute their theory, they completely dismiss them, proclaiming them to be the fruit of a conspiracy of historians (Illuminati Catholics, Jewish Freemasons, Anglo-Saxons, etc.). If these people had even a superficial idea of ​​the number of these sources and their diversity both in place and in time of origin, common sense would tell them that stripping and remaking them all in a single concept is so difficult that even theoretically only the most extensive and conspiratorial network can cope with it, having in its composition professional historians, translators, and falsification specialists in an amount exceeding all reasonable limits. In addition to this, such a network should have an unlimited amount of time and material resources, working exclusively at a loss to the employer, without bringing him any income.
                And all this is just for the sake of Russians believing in the blatant lie that their ancestors were defeated by the Mongols. Where is the common sense? And these written sources all confirm the campaign of the Mongols (Moals, as they called themselves) from their places of birth west to Poland, Hungary and the Adriatic Sea. And also confirm the subsequent events, called in our historiography "yoke".
                Next, the yoke. If we mean by the term "Tatar-Mongol yoke" just a period of vassal dependence of Russia on the Horde, then everything falls into place, right? The conquerors of their own administration did not plant in the conquered territories (in Russia), they quickly refused to collect tributes personally, but they actively intervened in domestic political issues, and separatism was severely suppressed. Coming to Russia, they took what they wanted, people were taken away, cities were robbed. And the tribute, as the surest sign of vassal dependence, was scrupulously collected, the attempt to hide, reduce or appropriate it ended for the guilty in the event of his exposure very deplorably - examples of this are darkness.
                By the way, I’m ready to believe that Russian written sources were subjected to extraordinary cleaning with the total destruction of the most important documents, but this cleaning took place not in the 18th-19th centuries, but in the beginning of the 17th century, when the state archives were inspected for legitimization of Mikhail Romanov on the throne. But only this purge happened in the opposite direction - the memory of just the Mongols, of the invasion, of the yoke was erased, labels, letters, diplomatic correspondence with the Horde were destroyed, all of which could testify to the independence, dependence of the Russian princes on non-Jewish khans. It is enough to read the Charter Letter of 1613 in order to understand how Michael was seated on the throne. From the point of view of common sense, such a construction is more real than the "worldwide conspiracy", do not you?
                1. +1
                  6 January 2018 00: 44
                  Quote: Luga
                  Statutory Charter

                  Approved Diploma, of course, I apologize.
                  1. +21
                    6 January 2018 08: 04
                    Keep
                    And forms of dependence, coupled with periodic invasions of the Russian principalities, make it possible to talk about Yoke. Very capacious term
                2. +4
                  6 January 2018 08: 20
                  Quote: Luga
                  . During this invasion, Russia suffered a military
                  colossal defeat

                  And here is the most interesting!
                  Or Russia - they would say now - a multinational army! (If you still adhere to the official version of the story, then hold on to the end, according to the officials, who is Russia?) It was then that they mastered the territory in question! Having cleaned the top of the subjects, note that each city, be it Bulgar, Ryazan, Kiev or Pskov with Novgorod, was a free city and could have its own system! And moreover, have a nationality different from modern one, for example, Ryazans in Ryazan, Bulgars in the Bulgars, and so on. And here they lead to one beginning, read create a state consisting of these cities as subjects! ...
                  1. +6
                    6 January 2018 13: 50
                    Quote: SpnSr
                    Quote: Luga
                    . During this invasion, Russia suffered a military
                    colossal defeat

                    And here is the most interesting!
                    Or Russia - they would say now - a multinational army! (If you still adhere to the official version of the story, then hold on to the end, according to the officials, who is Russia?) It was then that they mastered the territory in question! Having cleaned the top of the subjects, note that each city, be it Bulgar, Ryazan, Kiev or Pskov with Novgorod, was a free city and could have its own system! And moreover, have a nationality different from modern one, for example, Ryazans in Ryazan, Bulgars in the Bulgars, and so on. And here they lead to one beginning, read create a state consisting of these cities as subjects! ...

                    If you had bothered to express your thoughts more clearly, I might be able to answer you more to the point. You ask what is Russia? I answer: at the beginning of the XIII century. Russia was called the totality of lands managed by representatives of the Rurikovich dynasty, regardless of the presence or absence of a non-Slavic population in these territories of these lands. So Izhora, Vod, the whole, Mordovians, Meria, Torques, partly Korela, Ugra, Perm - are non-Slavic peoples, quite a part of Russia. The Bulgars, Polovtsy, Lithuania had their own states, which were not part of Russia.
                    Concerning
                    Quote: SpnSr
                    If you stick to the official version of the story, then hold on to the end
                    then here I’ll sort it out myself, okay? Or do you think that official historians take the oath, or what? "I, such and such, believe in the fact that there is no history outside of Nestor and Karamzin is his prophet, I believe in the Mongol invasion and the Tatar-Mongol yoke, the Kulikovo battle on the Don and the Battle of Poltava near Poltava, I betray the anathema of Fomenko and Nosovich, for they will burn at the stake from their own books, in the name of the great and all-blessed Nestor the Chronicler, so be it, amen. " It would be funny, but I will disappoint you - it is not. The community of historians is not the CPSU with its democratic centralism, remember this.
                    1. +3
                      6 January 2018 23: 49
                      Quote: Luga
                      You ask what is Russia?

                      about the fact that Russia is sometimes defined as, slaves, no, rowers in galleys!
                      and they are also trying to be attributed to the militarized tribe of travelers! it is so crudely exaggerated.
                      but one can also voice them as those who moved along the land inhabited by some kind of tribes, which still had no definite structure of relations in the overgrown population!
                      you can imagine how civilization developed on the planet, if it’s crude, let’s say, imagine how its development has taken place over the past two three centuries, then from a baton to modern technologies somewhere around 1,5-2 thousand years. And especially in view of the fact that the bulk of the world's population became acquainted with civilization in all its glory, only in the last century, we can emphasize that Europe got its sip of civilization only 2-3 centuries earlier, this is the same Europe, which is called eastern, it was the Russian Empire that created the features of many East European states, and only a few can be said to have learned it a little earlier. and then, rather, it looked like that while there was a ruler, there was a state that he created, but as soon as he swept it away, chaos began again !!!
                      and this is all the same story that is written in textbooks, but only through the prism of the real development of the planet!
                      for example, the so-called renaissance of Europe, which swept through Europe after they rolled back into the dark after antiquity! the period of the dark period is 30-50 years, after after the civil war, the so-called reconquest, the whole world was destroyed, and then (as an example of a rollback to the "darker century", the foundation period of the USSR, only with the reference to the fact that all the same, people were more educated, and not everyone was burned at the stake, and technically they were still at a higher level of development)
                      and again about the Mongols, the period that we are described as a type of Mongolian civilization, sometimes emphasizing nomadic, you yourself can imagine the difference and consonance of words with nomadic civilization, especially when passing the concept of civilization through the real meaning of the word.
                      the fact is that planet earth was inhabited by people who did not have the slightest idea that they belong to one or another ethnic race (the concepts of race, nationality and all that begin to form in the late 18th century and are still ongoing), so they lived, were engaged in feeding themselves, and civilization with the formation of nationality and statehood came to them by itself! with the help of the British Empire, the Russian Empire, the USSR!
                      this story is obvious, and the Mongol in this story is somehow not! but there is a population of southern Russia, which in the late 18th and early 20th centuries was defined by the Romanovs under different nationalities, including the Cossacks (divide and conquer), which in the last century had terrified Europe, and who were mobile, armed, knew how to fight with childhood, and moved around the world! including America! what is not the real story?
                      1. +2
                        7 January 2018 12: 35
                        Luzhsky, want a story?
                        In which there will be a place for Augustus, and St. George the Victorious, and the population, which was later named after the Cossacks, and civil wars?
                        Imagine, there was Augustus, who was engaged in the development of territories in the east, just do not drag Europe here, which was already mastered by Russia, in the classical sense of the word and where his relatives and the coming "boyars" ruled. So, after the development of new territories, he returns home and, due to civil strife and unfair governance in "Europe", decides to carry out reforms that the governors of these territories do not like and they kill him.
                      2. +4
                        7 January 2018 17: 12
                        Quote: SpnSr
                        about the fact that Russia is sometimes defined as, slaves, no, rowers in galleys!

                        As you wish, dear, it’s really hard for me to understand you. Too chaotic and haphazard you express your thoughts.
                        Quote: SpnSr
                        Luzhsky, want a story?

                        How interesting! laughing
                        Do you want mine?
                        Once upon a time there was someone, let's call him Thomas. He read a lot of the most diverse literature, including historical, and possibly looked even in the annals. From this very literature he read (including from the annals) he learned that there were princes in Russia, such as Andrei and Vsevolod Yurievichi, Yuri and Yaroslav Vsevolodovichi, Alexander and Andrei Yaroslavichi, and many others. And how can he still learn about them? Only from the annals. And then Thomas thought, thought another and decided - all the annals are lying, everything is untrue in them. The princes were like that, it’s true, but what they were doing about this chronicle lies shamelessly. And only he, Thomas, unraveled this lie and the whole world will tell about it immediately. And told. And he found himself even followers. I only forgot, poor fellow, that he bases all his conclusions on these very annals, the veracity of which he denies completely, that without them, these annals, he would have neither Andrei Yurievich, nor Yaroslav Vsevolodovich, nor Alexander Yaroslavich, who are only in these annals and exist. And it turns out that Thomas has some kind of oxymoronchik - the annals give us false premises, but we put them at the heart of the reasoning. Indeed, the laws of formal logic should be known to Thomas as no one else, in particular, that it is impossible to draw true conclusions from false premises. But Foma didn’t care, especially since his followers did not see such oxymoronists at point blank range and were completely unfamiliar with formal logic and its laws. But Thomas was worried and continues to worry about the number of books sold, the author of which he is, or rather, the number of rubles that he receives for this. And the number of books is growing, the number of oxymoronchiks is growing, the number of followers is growing, the number of rubles is growing.
                        The end of my story is much more joyful than yours - you have the evil "governors" of the hero killing, but he still lives with me to this day, he lives, lives and makes good.
                        In so.
                3. +1
                  6 January 2018 13: 49
                  Quote: Luga
                  The conquerors of their own administration did not plant in the conquered territories (in Russia), they quickly refused to collect tributes personally, but they actively intervened in domestic political issues, and separatism was severely suppressed. Coming to Russia, they took what they wanted, people were taken away, cities were robbed. And tribute, as the surest sign of vassal dependence, was scrupulously charged, an attempt to hide it,

                  like all nations of this time, are dependent on the distance of transmission of information. Bureaucratic apparatus in the field is not possible to create. Even the Romans could not cope with this, despite their roads. They planted locals, gave a collection plan and go. Bureaucracy is a sign of a higher society. Yes, and the availability of information.
                  The method you describe is relevant to this day and is not particularly different. Presidents are being planted, tribute in the form of investments, attempts at separatism suppress ...
                4. +4
                  7 January 2018 04: 12
                  Historians know how to admit their mistakes if their constructions begin to run counter to common sense.

                  Key point :) it’s difficult to stir up the water when mistakes and / or explicit cheating and defamation become apparent.

                  During this invasion, Russia suffered a military defeat of colossal proportions, as evidenced by the burnt cities, numerous mass graves and other archaeological traces. ... The result of the military defeat was a sharp drop in the cultural level of the population of Russia - again, archaeological research shows a significant simplification of craft products ...
                  Russia in its development was thrown back a hundred years ago.

                  Given the size of the territory of Russia, any internecine skirmish will be considered by Western historians as a colossal battle. What can I say about the civil war in Russia.

                  Pro is discarded in development - yes, as after any war, especially civil war. Do you think in the West, for example, they believe that the GDR became a super-progressive part of Europe, after it was occupied by the USSR, the winner of the Second World War?
                  Crafts have also been simplified - what does this mean? Of course testifies, but not about what you are talking about ..
                  And how should Western historiographers generally interpret similar victories of Russian barbarians for the younger generations of future masters? Yes, even so.

                  have an unlimited amount of time and material resources, working exclusively at a loss to the employer, without bringing him any income.


                  And here you are mistaken. More precisely about the first one - time is really a secondary factor and resources are manageable if the goals are long-term and are implemented consistently and steadily. I agree with that.
                  But it’s accessible, the limitations are temporary and resource ones are subjective and depend on the quality of management implemented in practice and the ability to implement it in the succession of generations.

                  And about the loss - well, how so? This is not the first time in its history that Rus Ivan has sold everything to his “friends” in the West for mineral resources and the earth and human resources. You just underestimate the story. Or do you consider the idiots of those who finance "historical research" in "an even richer country" - Ukraine? Is this such a new kind of philanthropy in the West? This is the usual task scaling. Technologies are all old, tried and tested. See how this is done in a simple and easy way in miniature, if it is not so easy to cover the global historical and geographical scale.
                  Here you have the whole mercantile "common sense".

                  And the tribute, as the surest sign of vassal dependence, was scrupulously collected, the attempt to hide, reduce or appropriate it ended for the guilty in the event of his exposure very deplorably - examples of this are darkness.


                  I think it’s not a secret for you that state organization and maintenance of the army requires money. The words "tribute", "give", "file", more modern "taxes" are all of the same order of terms. Failure to pay can now have very dire consequences. In some countries, they can take their lives. This is our moratorium. Does this disprove or prove something?

                  About the global conspiracy - in fact there are only three civilizational forces in the world now, the West, Asia and Russia - which countries and how they relate to them
                  I think to state too much.
                  In this context, the word "world" is already quite hypertrophied.
                  Conspiracy - is the implementation of the participants' plans in secret from anyone. Thus, the implementation of this or that management, in achieving goals that are implicit or incomprehensible to the natives, that is, we are with you, for various reasons, including it is already possible to interpret not the most adequate education in the sense of conformity with objective realities of life as a “world-wide” conspiracy, but in reality an ordinary conspiracy realized to achieve selfish goals.

                  I’ll give you another example, with all my respect for GDP, when he quotes Lermontov, Farewell to the unwashed Russia to the whole country, and then tries to explain why the poet could write like that, this is a managerial mistake caused by poor-quality information - a historiographical summary .
                  Well, at least recently I began to add "if it is actually HE wrote."
                  And it would seem - just a pamphlet, and obviously not the pen of M.Yu. Lermontov ..
                  What can we say about the milestones in our history that have been rewritten and their impact on ongoing processes in the country and in the world. Now they claim that it was not the USSR that won the war, and that it was Stalin who planned to attack Germany, and not vice versa, and perhaps even attacked. Also the whim of the rich Pinocchio in the West, just like that, at a loss?
                  For some reason, we believe in what is happening now, but in the fact that it has been implemented many times before and the technology is not new - it is no longer there, it’s called a “worldwide conspiracy” ..

                  So the version of your opponent seems more lively, consistent and logical to me.
                  1. +6
                    7 January 2018 16: 12
                    Quote: _man_
                    So the version of your opponent seems more lively, consistent and logical to me.

                    Have you ever been involved in organizational work in your life? Just imagine what time and resources (including human) you will need to just distort one issue of the Pravda newspaper for, say, 1982 year. For example, replace the surname Ivanov with the surname Petrov in the article on the advanced production. Just one last name in several places in the article.
                    In order to conduct such an event in high quality, you need to find out where and in what storages there are currently copies of this newspaper, in what conditions they are stored, obtain one of them, using it as a sample, prepare counterfeit copies using information about storage conditions, bring falsifications in proper condition (to age, wipe, etc.), place them in the proper places. And then, the confidence that you have found and replaced ALL instances you do not and cannot be.
                    Chronicles and chronicles have been written and compiled from ancient times to the present in various places, ranging from ancient India and China to them, but from the back of the globe. All these chronicles and chronicles tell about events both within the state, and at its closest and not so neighbors, partially duplicating each other, therefore they can be cross-checked. WHO, tell me, could forge, remake tens of thousands of sources physically located thousands of kilometers apart, guarded premises, at the disposal of numerous rulers, often hostile, created and created over thousands of years, many times copied, and even and written in hundreds of different languages? WHO and HOW? You, with one name in one newspaper, have so many problems, and here you have to replace more than one word, here you need to know the languages, to own a style.
                    As for the "civil war", such a shame in our history would be worse than the defeat from the Mongols. A military defeat from a strong adversary, which then was not equal, especially after heavy and bloody battles in which our ancestors showed courage, heroism, and military skill, causes only pride. And when the Russians kill the Russians, they themselves destroy their own culture, science and craft, and such a “history” is simply a Russophobe dream! wassat For such a story it really should be a shame.
                    And finally, I don’t know anything about the Slavic states of the XII-XIII centuries, which would be located east of the Volga, with which Rus Rurikovich could fight. If you know something about those, please share information.
                    Everything else that you wrote is simply “reflections on the topic,” and especially theoretical ones, are of little interest to me in the context of this debate.
                    1. +3
                      8 January 2018 00: 08
                      Quote: Luga
                      In order to conduct such an event in high quality, you need to find out where and in what storages there are currently copies of this newspaper, in what conditions they are stored, obtain one of them, using it as a sample, prepare counterfeit copies using information about storage conditions, bring falsifications in proper condition (to age, wipe, etc.), place them in the proper places. And then, the confidence that you have found and replaced ALL instances you do not and cannot be.

                      it is somewhat easier than you describe, the fake is changed in two three reputable libraries, and when they bring for comparison another instance, different from the fake, it is called heresy and sent to the stake! because there is a fake copy in an authoritative library !!!
                      1. +6
                        8 January 2018 01: 16
                        Quote: SpnSr
                        it's a little easier than you describe

                        Yes Yes. With simplified concepts, living, of course, is easier ...
                      2. 0
                        9 January 2018 07: 21
                        hmm ... do you seriously think that was so ??
                    2. +2
                      27 January 2018 17: 38
                      Greetings! I apologize for the late response.
                      The fact that it’s difficult for you to imagine something does not mean that someone else near you does not realize this in his life.
                      Organizational work can also be done in different ways, reflecting on what is happening. I didn’t say that it’s easy to do it, without effort. Have you been asking the WHO question all the time? This distracts you from the essence and background of the process itself.
                      The answer to the question by whose hands this task is realized is not as significant as the question of why and in whose interests.
                      And I have already given you examples of the application of such technologies in our everyday life above, although you don’t deny it well.
                      Tell me how many of the current “one children” will look for this your only surviving copy of “Truth” and even at least a copy of it on the Internet, and if it does, what good is it? What will they allow to the textbooks of history and allow to enter there "an ideologically incorrect interpretation of historical facts?"
                      No, they will not allow it.
                      What you described as reasoning on the topic has been set out to at least somehow suggest that this works on long-term horizons. And whether you like to ignore it or not is already your own business.

                      In the end, I’ll quote from George Orwell, “Who rules the past, then rules the future; who rules the present, rules the past”
                    3. +2
                      27 January 2018 21: 16
                      Quote: Luga

                      As for the "civil war", such a shame in our history would be worse than the defeat from the Mongols. A military defeat from a strong adversary, which then was not equal, especially after heavy and bloody battles in which our ancestors showed courage, heroism, and military skill, causes only pride. And when the Russians kill the Russians, they themselves destroy their own culture, science and craft, and such a “history” is simply a Russophobe dream! wassat For such a story really should be ashamed ..

                      Worse / better, this is your subjective interpretation, and I personally disagree with it. If for you to be defeated from the "Great Enemy" - it is an honor - this is your business. By the way, I can congratulate you in the 90s that “again” you “had the honor” of being defeated by the Great Opponent - the West, although this time the most powerful army in the world did not fire a single shot, but this is of little relevance. As for me, this is humiliating for the peoples inhabiting the territory of the former USSR.
                      But personally, I believe that this was exactly the way it was, and the fact that the political elite betrayed their people does not change anything in any way. But we have survived and are moving on and are gaining strength in the worldview and cultural confrontation with the West.
                      Have you ever been to Mongolia? Have you watched the life of people living there? It has not changed much over the past hundreds of years. All of Mongolia can be traveled by car in a week, almost half of the population lives in yurts, a simple way of life. The population of 2 million people. Do you really think that this
                      Could a great state subjugate Persia, China, Russia, and gather that army, which is mentioned in various sources from 120 to 200 thousand people, to arm all? Well, your business.
                      But where are the artifacts left over from the once-greatest empire in the world? From the Roman - is, from the Russian - is. Where from the Mongolian?
                      In addition to the stories of various historians - there is nothing.

                      You will take at least 2 minutes of your time and listen to what our president suddenly announced quite recently by historical standards:
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_WnlokRQyg

                      And think about it.
                      So everything may not be exactly like that or even not at all like we are described in history books. A lot of myths.

                      And regarding the Russophobic version or not. In my opinion, if there are unsightly moments in our history, hushing them up is dearer to yourself, mistakes need to be known and studied, even unsightly. If there are great moments in our history, they also need to know and honor the memory of their ancestors.
                      But not myths and not invented by historians in the service of someone else’s political interests of history. And in order for this to really be so for historians and we need to give answers to the questions posed above. Adequate answers, with archaeological evidence, but they are not yet available.
        2. +5
          5 January 2018 09: 10
          And for the sake of "corn" Kiev added a hundred years, or how much? And then even in fairy tales they looked for a struggle with the cult of personality
        3. +11
          5 January 2018 14: 11
          Quote: NEXUS
          For example, tell this to Miller, with whom Lomonosov “fought” all his life.

          We all know Miller’s works very well (I hope you also studied them, since you so categorically mention him). But for Lomonosov, history was not a priority science in his scientific work, but his idea that, for example, ancient Rus participated in ancient The Trojan War looks just childish and funny, without confirmation by any facts. And FACTS, it is the facts that modern science has accumulated a lot, enough for all obscurantists and historical romantics. Therefore, Gerhard Friedrichovich did not deserve to be reproached for nothing, he left his contribution in Russian science, and Lomonosov his own, in natural science is very significant. But as a historian Lomonosov is so-so, to be honest. They had enmity regarding the intrigues of the palace and finances, and scientific arguments were only tools.
          1. +8
            5 January 2018 14: 17
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            But as a historian, Lomonosov is so-so, to be honest.

            But to whom, if not you, the luminary of historical sciences and the recognized authority of the world, this is not to be affirmed! Lomonosov is someone who is an ignoramus, a mediocrity and a rogue, but Miler, who edited his works so much after Lomonosov’s death that the author himself wouldn’t recognize them, is of course the authority and the last resort.
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            He left his contribution to Russian science,

            Rather, he inherited than left a mark.
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            that the ancient Rus participated in the ancient Trojan War look just childish and funny, without confirmation by any facts.

            And you, dear, have facts refuting this statement?
            1. +10
              5 January 2018 14: 40
              Quote: NEXUS
              But to whom, if not to you, the luminary of historical sciences and the recognized authority of the world, this is not to say! Lomonosov is someone who is ignorant, mediocrity and a rogue, but Miler, who edited it after death

              No need to explain and be bold, this opinion is not mine, but people for whom the history of Russia was the work of a whole life, and not a secondary direction and a hobby. In his historical works, a lot is simply unprovable (to say the least), and therefore you can simply read how fascinating tale. I repeat that as a chemist, physicist, etc. Mikhailo plowed, and historically he was very mistaken, this is called a finger in the sky.
              Quote: NEXUS
              And you, dear, have facts refuting this statement?

              Yes, I have facts !!! The ancient Rus could not participate in the Trojan War, because The ancient proto-Ukrainians took part in it and won, then there was no Rus at all! And do you have facts that refute my facts ...? NO! Means that ... protoukry participated .... NO .... means that it is necessary to search for facts confirming the statement of Lomonosov, and there are NO .... means that ....
              1. +1
                11 January 2018 19: 12
                Quote: Thunderbolt
                Yes, I have facts !!! The ancient Rus could not participate in the Trojan War, because participated in it


                In that war, many tribes participated on both sides. From memory, take at least the Thracians (see their description), they may well be one of our ancestors, well, or a kindred tribe.
          2. +4
            7 January 2018 04: 31
            Regarding the version of history, I will take much more seriously the opinion of a person who has proved his worth in the so-called "natural" sciences. Since the results of their work are on the face, i.e. correlate with life and tested by life itself. Accordingly, historical processes are more likely to be considered by such scientists from the same objective points of view.
            History can be an exact science if the same approaches are applied to it as to life.

            Rather than "professional historians", and often just science fiction) well, they don’t own the "natural" sciences, they can be so brave that their hair stands on end.

            So it is necessary to study both those and others, but critically and draw your own conclusions.
        4. +4
          5 January 2018 19: 46
          Quote: NEXUS
          For example, tell this to Miller, with whom Lomonosov “fought” all his life. People like Miller rewrote our history, reducing it to a thousand years (and thanks for that no less), editing and castrating it to please the West, which always experienced its inferiority and weakness, being next to Russian civilization.

          Something reminds me of what I read. what - ancient ukrov / protouk lol and the whole history of the great suburbs was rewritten to please Muscovites wassat .
          1. +2
            6 January 2018 13: 51
            Quote: Serg Koma
            and the whole history of the great suburbs is rewritten to please

            from whom the Germans, from whom the Russians, from whom the British .. in general, someone stole and appropriated laughing
            it is standard for people.
            1. +2
              6 January 2018 15: 46
              "Yes, this is a crusade of the northerners against the southerners. There, in France, too, everything is ambiguous by this period. Up to the threats of separatism."
              If the whole thing was in separatism, then there would be no church. Ideology. Another sect on the basis of Manichaeism, "the world is enslaved to Satan, and in order to be saved, it is necessary to destroy the body shell." But simply suicide will not work. One must enjoy and thus kill oneself gradually. And at the same time, since the World is a defeat of the devil, then there are no moral and moral restrictions in it. Wow doctrine? Given that the adherents for their faith did not want to suffer, and therefore they lied and dodged. To expose them, the Holy Inquisition was established. That is, people are literate and knowledgeable in religion. It was necessary at first to “stab” them, and then to transfer them to secular authorities. Something like this.
        5. +3
          8 January 2018 07: 56
          7526 Summer from SMZH - Creation in the Star Temple (5 508 BC)
          13026 Years from the Great Chill and (Great Cooling) (11 008 BC)
          40022 Summer from the 3rd Arrival of Whiteman of Perun (38 004 BC)
          44562 Summer from the Creation of the Great Kolo of Rasseniya (42 544 BC)
          106796 Summer from the Founding of Asgard of Iria (from 9 Taylet) (104 778 BC)
          111824 Years from the Great Migration from Daariya (109 806 BC)
          143008 Years from the period of the Three Moons (140 990 BC)
          153384 Summer from Assa Dei (151 336 BC)
          165048 Summer from Tara Time (163 030 BC)
          185784 Summer from Tula Time (183 766 BC)
          211704 Years from the Time of the Swag (209 686 BC)
          273912 Summer from Time h'Arra (271 894 to r.kh)
          460536 Summer from the Time of the Gift (458 518 BC)
          604392 Years from the Time of the Three Suns (the beginning of the Da'ari chronology) (602 374 BC)
          957526 Years from the Time of the appearance of the Gods (955 508 BC)
          1,5 billion years from the arrival on Midgard of the first Waitmars of the Great Race of the Heavenly
          1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +26
        5 January 2018 12: 24
        Quote: 210ox
        The second time I read an article. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author.

        Often "subversors of history" to the site; I think that so, after 500 years, “historians” like Samsonov will say that the Great Patriotic War was not at all a war against the invaders, but was a civil war between the ancient Rus: one Russian prince Joseph (fiction of Jewish scholars about His Georgian roots is necessary rejected with contempt, because they were invented to humiliate the dignity of Russians) attacked by another Russian prince Adolfiy Gilyarovsky (namely Gilyarovsky, the name Hitler came up with the Anglo-Saxons to enslave the Russians).
        1. +10
          5 January 2018 12: 39
          I think he was, Adolfiy Hitlerovich. From the Khazars.
          1. +3
            5 January 2018 13: 04
            Quote: avva2012
            I think he was, Adolfiy Hitlerovich. From the Khazars.

            It is wrong about the representatives of God's chosen ones, they will strangle them completely. at all.
            1. +1
              5 January 2018 14: 05
              God will not betray .... Yes, and commentary in the direction of blond beasts. Let the lower jaw, as they say, kept by us, reduce.
          2. +4
            5 January 2018 19: 33
            Kabardinians believe that Hitler was a Kabardian ... And his name was Adalbi Hitlerogov ........... And it's time to turn all this fuss with Scythian-Siberian Rus into enslaving ordinary Rus into a fun clown show. It does not deserve more
      3. +3
        5 January 2018 13: 05
        Quote: 210ox
        The second time I read the article. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although of course it is impossible to say for sure. The story of this girl is the same as you turn it ...

        I recommend Gumelev, he also claims that there was no yoke. This leads to interesting calculations. "Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe".
        1. +4
          5 January 2018 14: 07
          If, my memory serves me, but Gumilyov wrote that among the Russians and the Tatars some internal rhythms coincide. Ah, here with the British in our antiphase.
        2. +5
          5 January 2018 17: 08
          Gumilyov did not come here, he would not even discuss this nonsense because he was a historian, not a science fiction.
          1. +3
            5 January 2018 17: 11
            I agree, historian, but a passionate push, do not recall in what units it is measured?
            1. +3
              6 January 2018 00: 09
              in energy pendels ...
      4. +3
        5 January 2018 15: 34
        Quote: 210ox
        The second time I read the article. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although of course it is impossible to say for sure. The story of this girl is the same as you turn it ...

        And it seems to me that the author is getting excited making peremptory statements.
        Rather, it is worthwhile to emphasize the development of territories and not to seize them, and to do this from the point of view of the penetration of civilization into open spaces that, like some in the 20th century, have not yet been mastered by civilization.
        And here the problem of Russia arises, as official history defines it, that is, it seems that the development, again not the seizure, namely, the development, of territories, as during the Russian Empire, and the USSR took place even then
        1. 0
          5 January 2018 16: 33
          I would like to emphasize that initially there was no war, but there was a movement of civilization with the development of territories. And later, a conflict arose between these territories, more precisely between the ruling houses. And somewhere the struggle for sovereignty from a great ideology started!
          As an example, one can cite the development of territories by the Romanovs and the British Empire, and by the Ottoman Empire and the confrontation between which over any territory led to its fragmentation and sovereignization
          1. +2
            5 January 2018 23: 21
            we are talking about the fact that official history is simply somewhat rephrased, from the objective or obvious development of civilization!
            if you throw away excess slag, then such concepts that now are called Cossacks and many other peoples, named by those who are now called in the late 18th and early 20th centuries, and earlier there were the army, which in the official version they called the horde, burst into history.
            and this is a host of different origins, which can largely explain different genetics in the same nationality!
            if we look further at history, then even in official history there is such a thing as Western Slavs. and Germanization begins to occur when someone begins to treat the Slavs with neglect (English), modern technology as with ukrami!
            immediately there is a confrontation over territories, population, and as now for sales markets !!! which led to a confrontation between east and west as it is now ...
            1. +1
              5 January 2018 23: 28
              this explains the development of civilization in the western part of Eurasia!
              the development of the eastern part of Eurasia literally took place before our eyes a little earlier, and begins in the second half of the 18th century.
      5. +6
        5 January 2018 17: 25
        You ask the author, let him indicate several sources confirming his emissions. Moreover, sources of academic, trustworthy, preferably still foreign, but not posts in social networks and other nonsense. I’ve asked how many times I’ve never provided.
        1. +2
          5 January 2018 19: 35
          Quote: Dimmih
          You ask the author, let him indicate several sources confirming his emissions. Moreover, sources of academic, credible,

          Unless he is an academician himself ..... Self-proclaimed and self-proclaimed
      6. 0
        7 January 2018 15: 21
        The author of course bent. Leo Gumilyov: Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe. I recommend reading. After reading this book, the author of this epic will seem to you a charlatan. And also I advise Ilyin to read about semi-education, the scourge of our time.
      7. +5
        7 January 2018 22: 00
        210okv "I read the article for the second time. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although of course it is impossible to say for sure. The story of this girl is the same as you turn it .."
        Yes Yes. And there was no yoke and invasion.))) And Scythian-Russes around.))) In the process, new deliveries from the Chuy valley began))) ... even more challenging.))). And then these authors will tell us that Suvorov, Ushakov, Kutuzov and our other national heroes are traitors because they served the Germans who destroyed all the archives.))) My opinion is: 1 First, the USSR collapsed. Stalin is a criminal ayahay a bad man. Then Lenin became ill. USSR collapsed. Now digging already under the ancient history. That would ruin Russia. And that is not so and it is not that way.))) All the kings of the Germans and their minions, etc.))) Lay the mine already under our entire history. And there is no history, no people. So here is the gentlemen of the Tartararians.))) And why in Europe is not heard of an alternative story. Are they all right? Can you turn all your fervor of disclosure against our partners?))) I think people frolic on this topic from their own insanity.)))
        1. +1
          8 January 2018 07: 12
          Quote: Nagaibak
          Now digging already under the ancient history. That would ruin Russia. And that is not so and it is not that way.))) All the kings of the Germans and their minions, etc.))) Lay the mine already under our entire history. And there is no history, no people. So here is the gentlemen of the Tartararians.))) And why in Europe is not heard of an alternative story. Are they all right? Can you turn all your fervor of disclosure against our partners?))) I think people frolic on this topic from their own insanity.)))

          100 (+) good
      8. +4
        8 January 2018 03: 51
        Quote: 210ox
        I share the opinion of the author


        The myth of the German invasion under the leadership of Hitler Khan in Russia, in the 40 years of the 20 century. wassat
        This .. type of "internal" dismantling .. Type - the Russian princes Vlasov and Shkuro opposed the Grand Duke Joseph the Terrible.
        --------------
        What nonsense sad
    2. +9
      5 January 2018 06: 47
      Quote: NEXUS
      Now, bit by bit they are restoring our history. Sewing once rich in events, and the ancient canvas of our people

      It sounds ridiculous, Andrei, People-deprived of nationality, these days. Time is the merciless Constructor of History, it (history) is like a kaleidoscope under the next ruler, another era, and it all depends on which side this Kaleidoscope is twisted, and how the "glass" will fall ... hi
      1. +3
        5 January 2018 06: 50
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        Sounds ridiculous, Andrei, People-deprived of nationality, these days

        Oh ... let’s take a look ... What, for example, do you know about Rasputin? Pugachev? Catherine? Well, it’s very interesting to listen to what is generally known about the time before princes and boyars ...
        1. +8
          5 January 2018 06: 56
          Quote: NEXUS
          Oh ... let’s take a look ... What, for example, do you know about Rasputin? Pugachev? Catherine? Well, it’s very interesting to listen to what is generally known about the time before princes and boyars ...
          I know, only what they let me know in my time, the question is what they knew about it 100 years ago, and what they will know 100 years after our time ... - I'm sure it will be different "knowledge".
          1. +4
            5 January 2018 07: 01
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            I know, only what they let me know in my time, the question is what they knew about it 100 years ago, and what they will know 100 years after our time ... - I'm sure it will be different "knowledge".

            And you, the namesake, are sure that your knowledge, or the knowledge of Lieutenant Teterin, is correct? What kind of knowledge is it and who taught it to you? I mean, to say that it all started only 100 years ago is ridiculous, as well as the statement that there was neither Tartaria nor Gardarika ... of course our history is only 1000 years old. wassat But the Slavic ethnic group in the world is one of the most numerous. Can you tell me why?
            1. +7
              5 January 2018 07: 06
              Quote: NEXUS
              And you, the namesake, are sure that your knowledge, or the knowledge of Lieutenant Teterin, is correct?

              no, I’m not sure, that’s what I mean, and I say that the History-tinder is rumpled, twisted ... it was, it is, it will be. therefore, humanity knows about itself, it is so negligible, although HIM (they say) hundreds of thousands of years, IT only “remembers” itself “from the Nativity of Christ” .... why? Where has the story gone ???
              1. +3
                5 January 2018 07: 16
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                IT "remembers" itself only "from the Nativity of Christ" .... why?

                Apparently before the Baptism of Russia, not Slavs with their culture, writing, originality and history lived on this territory, but monkeys sitting on palm trees. Only now apparently the same Arkaim was built by Western masters ... they came and showed us unreasonable how to. wassat
                1. +5
                  5 January 2018 12: 19
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  here, apparently, the same Arkaim was built by Western masters.

                  Only the builders of Arkaim, according to Klesov, were the Indo-Aryans - i.e. they went not to the West, but to the south - to India ...
                  1. +2
                    5 January 2018 14: 28
                    Quote: Weyland
                    Only the builders of Arkaim, according to Klesov, were the Indo-Aryans - i.e. they went not to the West, but to the south - to India ...

                    And why are you so modestly silent about the fact that there are already three versions, and not one, as you write here?
                    There is still a debate among scientists about the ownership of monuments of this type. There are three main versions of the origin of these:

                    local substrate theory
                    the theory of the Middle East origin of Sintashta (S. A. Grigoriev) [source not specified 309 days];
                    the theory of migrations from the west, the cause of which was the collapse of the Circumpontian metallurgical province - this theory is supported by the bulk of researchers

                    At present, there is not enough data to unequivocally say whether the “Sintashtins” were Indo-Iranians or already Iranians.
                    1. +1
                      5 January 2018 16: 01
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      And why are you so modestly silent about the fact that there are already three versions, and not one, as you write here?

                      here's Andrey, and History ....
              2. Hey
                +3
                5 January 2018 11: 17
                IT "remembers" itself only "from the Nativity of Christ" .... why? Where has the story gone ???

                Look at the root of the word - history.
                Of(with) - tori(and I)
                draw conclusions.
                Just some fought, built the state. And others quietly quietly wrote what their people needed.
            2. +6
              5 January 2018 07: 15
              Quote: NEXUS
              But the Slavic ethnic group in the world is one of the most numerous. Can you tell me why?

              Seriously? Andrei, this is also Your knowledge, from those Textbooks that you used that were printed in our time, and in no case are Dogma or Truth in the Last Instruction, this is just another interpretation of the next “historians” in a certain section Time. that's all. Note: the Germans have their own History, the Chinese have their own, their books on which they teach this History, and undoubtedly, they also consider themselves Greatest, Ancient, and so on ... so where is the True History ??? REAL? answer: nowhere. There is no Common Understanding.
              1. +5
                5 January 2018 07: 21
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                Seriously?

                Absolutely ... see for yourself if you doubt ... doubt, this is the path to enlightenment, the namesake.
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                Andrei, this is also Your knowledge, from those Textbooks that you used that were printed in our time, and in no case are Dogma or Truth in the Last Instruction, this is just another interpretation of the next “historians” in a certain section Time. that's all

                In addition to traditional history, I also studied an alternative that has its own facts and arguments, refuting the fact that we are fed buckets.
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                Note: the Germans have their own History, the Chinese have their own, their books on which they teach this History, and undoubtedly, they also consider themselves the Greatest, Ancient, and so on ...

                There are two ways to exalt yourself in relation to others ... the first is to create and defend true values, and the second is to belittle the merits, to depersonalize the story of those standing nearby in order to look higher against their background.
                Tell me, the history of which civilization the Slavs belittle or rewrite?
              2. SOF
                +3
                5 January 2018 15: 16
                Quote: Andrey Yurievich
                so where is the true story ??? REAL? answer: nowhere. There is no Common Understanding.

                Well, after all, we are in the 21st century, isn't it? You can search for other sources. For example, a kinetic story. Find out for yourself that there are “haplogroups”, and then try to understand why the Middle Russians have short codes and the Western Europeans long ones, taking into account the mutation period of 300-400 years, when a dopik is added to the code. Why, for example, the higher castes of Indians have a light skin color, they are similar to us in DNA code, but, for the greater length of the code, they are our descendants ... It’s interesting somehow it turns out that Mahenjadaro was destroyed by nuclear weapons, but its former inhabitants look like us, both externally and genetically. This is bad luck, although Arkaim fits amazingly into it.
                1. +1
                  5 January 2018 19: 42
                  Here’s your Klesov ..... He’s not at all the one you take him for .... I don’t understand why in one place you completely reject the West, and in another place you unconditionally accept and take some information from the West on faith
                  1. SOF
                    +3
                    5 January 2018 20: 13
                    Quote: Dzungar
                    Here is your Klesov.

                    ... what does Klesov have to do with it? Did I say something about him?
                    Or do you deny the fact of the presence of DNA chains and their difference in people of different nationalities? And then, why should I attribute the ideas of eugenics? We're talking about history, aren't we? Or should we not use this method of studying the movement of human flows by default? So as not to know what is superfluous ??? :) There is no dear dunganen (?), You can’t hide an awl in a bag. Over time, it will certainly come out.
                    1. +2
                      6 January 2018 09: 15
                      But didn’t Klesov introduce the term DNA genealogy ...? Isn't the term Haplogroup his invention ...?
                  2. 0
                    5 January 2018 20: 48
                    Quote: Dzungar
                    your klesov

                    Suspicious eugenics and objective genealogy are two completely different things.

                    Any cellular biological species on Earth is so arranged that it carries the apparatus of heredity - a chain of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA). In chains there are sections that encode species characteristics (called genes), but there are simply informational sections (called haplotype tags).

                    Since DNA genealogy deals exclusively with informational DNA sections, it does not concern eugenics with any side - a teaching that connects (correctly or incorrectly) the level of development of people with coding DNA sections.

                    Anyone who claims the opposite is a complete ignoramus in DNA or a malicious liar.
            3. +25
              5 January 2018 07: 18
              Quote: NEXUS
              Lieutenant Teterina true? M. What kind of knowledge is it and who taught it to you?

              Dear Nexus, this knowledge has been taught by generations (!) Of historians working with Russian and foreign written sources, with materials from archaeological finds, and with the results of philological research. Conclusions about the Mongol invasion were made after the labor of thousands of people for about a century and a half. And here are a dozen lovers who have never even stood in the excavation site and the banal broken shard in their hands did not take the boldness to say that they say, "everything was wrong, everyone lies, and we know the Truth."
              1. +11
                5 January 2018 07: 28
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                Dear Nexus, this knowledge has been taught by generations (!) Of historical scholars working with Russian and foreign written sources,

                Uti ways ... Miller do you consider the source? Very funny. And where did the historical works of Lomonosov after his death not tell?
                What generations are you talking about? What do you know about the life of the Slavs before Baptism, to princes and boyars. Who was Rurik? Can you answer?
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                Conclusions about the Mongol invasion were made after the labor of thousands of people for about a century and a half.

                Oh, how ... I will tell you that no less work was done to explain that Iga was not from the word at all. Only it is more convenient for you to think that it was, because they taught you so at school.
                You know, when Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for heresy about the round Earth, thousands of works were written before him that the Earth was flat. What's next?
                1. +8
                  5 January 2018 08: 34
                  Giordano was not burned for this. Satanist, sodomy, spy. Copernicus claimed the same thing and nothing, he was not touched with a finger. Moreover, the fact that the Earth is round is known from ancient times and this knowledge was not hidden behind seven seals.
                  1. +6
                    5 January 2018 08: 37
                    Quote: avva2012
                    In addition, the fact that the Earth is round is known from ancient times and this knowledge was not hidden behind seven seals.

                    You tell the Catholic Church with the Inquisition. Or didn’t they burn at the bonfires of dissenters?
                    1. +5
                      5 January 2018 09: 02
                      Burned. We started with the Albigensians, if I am not mistaken. You are not interested in their ideology? Those are also movers. In addition, there is a theory that is much more plausible than the Samsonian theory of the Inquisition, beads (thanks to Werner for the term) were drawn by Protestants led by the Church of England. I do not condone the Inquisition, but its appearance was vital at that time. The acre of the Albigensians in Europe at that time, mysticism spread, something similar to the “Battle of psychics,” but not so funny. The recipe for ointment for the flight did not read or the ritual of the black mass? And, in your opinion, the Catholic Church and the authorities should have looked at such "pranks"?
                      1. +7
                        5 January 2018 09: 12
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And, in your opinion, the Catholic Church and the authorities should have looked at such "pranks"?

                        And you do not tell how many works and historical documents are now gathering dust in the Vatican, hidden from the public?
                      2. 0
                        5 January 2018 09: 46
                        Quote: avva2012
                        I do not condone the Inquisition, but its appearance was vital at that time.

                        this is an excuse, but I agree with you on this, for certain periods of time, such organizations as the Inquisition, Oprichniks, OGPU-NKVD, despite their brutal methods, are even useful to society in order to prevent the spread of obscurantism like
                        Quote: avva2012
                        ointments for the flight did not read or the ritual of the black mass

                        but, I repeat, only for a certain period of time.
                      3. 0
                        6 January 2018 14: 02
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Started with the Albigensians,

                        yes this is a crusade of northerners against southerners. There, in France, too, everything is ambiguous by this period. Up to the threats of separatism.
                        As for the attitude of the Inquisition, these are “political executions”. Of the striking examples is a certain Jeanne.
                        As for scientists, the church itself was engaged in science. For example, in good relations with the same Galileo was. Although they claim that something was forbidden to him, they arrested him, but there were only conversations with him about his theories. But the excesses were of course.
                        A "political burning" -so everyone had it. In Russia, Old Believers burned (and burned), Jews / Moriski in Spain, Protestants in Holland, Huguenots in France, etc.
                    2. +6
                      5 January 2018 09: 17
                      Some "works" cannot be shown, so as not to embarrass these little ones. On the other hand, it is also contraindicated to destroy them, because heresy requires study and classification. Moreover, nothing is new under the moon.
                  2. +2
                    5 January 2018 09: 59
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Giordano was not burned for this. Satanist, sodomy, spy.

                    Yes, Giordano was burned not for the form of the earth, but for heretics:
                    I heard many times from Giordano Bruno Nolanza when he spoke with him that when Catholics say that bread is being transformed into the body, then this is great absurdity; that he is the enemy of poverty, that he does not like any religion; that Christ was a deceiver and deceived to seduce the people - and therefore could easily foresee that he would be hanged; that he does not see the difference of persons in the deity and this would mean the imperfection of God; that the world is eternal and there are endless worlds ...
                    From the denunciation to D. Bruno
                    Has he affirmed, indeed acknowledged, or now recognizes and believes in the Trinity, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, one in the being? ..
                    He answered: “Speaking in Christianity, according to the theology and everything that every true Christian and Catholic should believe in, I really doubted the name of the Son of God and the Holy Spirit ... for, according to St. Augustine, this term is not ancient, but a new one that arose in his time. I kept this view from the age of eighteen to the present
                    from the materials of the investigation of the Venice Inquisition, i.e. they condemned him, after all, for heretical statements, and not for espionage and sodomism.
                  3. SOF
                    +3
                    5 January 2018 19: 01
                    Quote: avva2012
                    In addition, the fact that the Earth is round is known from ancient times and this knowledge was not hidden behind seven seals.

                    Were hidden, were. And then their political strategists hid them from the Inquisition ... at those who came up with Mallēus Maleficārum, like our story. Or maybe Bartholomew’s night or a witch-hunt still fades before Ivan the Terrible’s “atrocities,” how did you get this out of the pages of history?
                    1. +1
                      5 January 2018 19: 09
                      The problem is that you interfere with politics. And you take incompatible times. With this approach, any owl, jumping, will fit into any globe without any problems.
                      1. SOF
                        +2
                        5 January 2018 20: 22
                        Quote: avva2012
                        The problem is that you interfere with politics.

                        Yes, not in life ...
                        You are pushing for such arguments in view of the fact that you are citing the arguments of those who have been repeatedly caught in a lie. What story are you talking about?
                        Now, in the age of the Internet, even half of the globe is confident that a star-striped flag, rather than a red banner, developed over the Reichstag in May 45th. And in the Middle Ages, of course, this could not be ????
                        ...do not make me laugh...
                    2. +2
                      5 January 2018 20: 46
                      Yes, that you all refer to the Internet? Whom did you personally catch in a lie? There is a history of a great country. Built by our ancestors and the Red Banner over the Reichstag, was set up by those who taught history from Soviet textbooks in the classic Miller interpretation. And nothing, somehow won. And, here we are for 25 years, it’s not clear what we are doing, we are studying this substance even before victory in anything, to us, like to Shanghai on four wheels. It’s ridiculous to laugh.
                2. +15
                  5 January 2018 11: 05
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Do you consider Miller a source?

                  Dear, you do not leave the topic of the dispute. Your hatred of Miller (apparently because of his German origin) has nothing to do with the topic of the article. This is a study of the Mongol-Tatar yoke. My (like all educated people) sources are:
                  - such Russian historians as N.M. Karamzin, N.I. Kostomarov, V.V. Leontovich, N.P. Zagoskin, V.I. Sergeevich, I. Engelman, V.A. Ryazanovsky, S.M. Soloviev, V.O. Klyuchevsky, S.F. Platonov, E.F. Shmurlo, M.N. Pokrovsky, D.I. Bagaley, M.F. Vladimirsky-Budanov, M.A. Dyakonov and many others;
                  -Chinese chronicles "Yuan Shi", which also contains material on the Mongolian military campaigns in Russia and the chronicle "Shen-woo chin-zheng Lu" ("Description of personal campaigns of the holy-warlike [Emperor Chinggis]:
                  -Labors of Orientalists P.S. Savelyeva and G.S. Sablukova.
                  And this is not counting the many museum exhibits that are the work of a whole galaxy of archaeologists.
                  Are you going to blame everything on poor Miller again and say that all the people I listed wrote a lie? In your opinion, will it be that "the spirit of the villain Miller has infused these people with the insidious libel of the evil Freemasons to slander the millions of years of the history of the Aryan race"?

                  Quote: NEXUS
                  no less work was done to explain that Iga was not from the word at all.

                  Well, we know the authors of such "works": Fomenko, Nosovsky, Sklyarov, Kungurov and a lot of impostors.
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  You know, when Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for heresy about the round Earth

                  Here it is not necessary to distort the story, please. Bruno was burned for outright Satanism. And, if you were at least partially familiar with the rituals for which he was burned, you would have signed the sentence of the inquisitors ...
                  1. SOF
                    +4
                    5 January 2018 19: 10
                    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                    And, if you were at least partially familiar with the rituals for which he was burned, you would have signed the sentence of the inquisitors.

                    ... what an undisguised loyalty :)
                    But tell me, if you were thrown into the water with your hands and feet tied in the expectation that if you are not a witcher, then you will emerge, then you still floated out !? :)
                    And who are the Templars ??? Satanists or warriors of the Lord ???
                    Do not you think that the body that has so many times compromised itself is not the ultimate truth and to believe that it was obtained through the “iron maiden” is, at least, stupid?
                    1. +2
                      6 January 2018 00: 13
                      and the Templars did stupidity .. they became richer than the king of France .. by the way, by haplogroups are they also Russians?
                3. +3
                  5 January 2018 12: 23
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  when Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for heresy about the round Earth,

                  You know, the Tordesillas Treaty, which proceeded from the theory of the spherical Earth, was signed yes 106 years before the burning of Bruno. And the expedition of Magellan, who proved this theory, ended 78 years before the burning of Bruno. And they didn’t even burn it for the theory of the multiplicity of inhabited worlds (such theories existed in ancient times), but for the statement that each alien civilization was created by its own separate god!
                  1. +4
                    5 January 2018 12: 29
                    Quote: Weyland
                    You know




                    Does not know....
              2. +1
                5 January 2018 09: 23
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                And here are a dozen lovers,

                Let me remind you. Titinik was built by scientists, and Noah's ark is an amateur. The atomic bomb was invented by the smart, and the Obninsk NPP by the intelligent.
                1. +14
                  5 January 2018 09: 55
                  Classics of the genre. good Compare the Titanic and Noah's Ark. In an alternative story, everything is held together by similar iron logic.
                  1. +8
                    5 January 2018 11: 45
                    Dear, you don’t confuse the warm with the soft)) Noah’s ark was not built by an amateur, but by a person directed by the Almighty, and this is much stronger than an amateur.
                    1. 0
                      5 January 2018 13: 23
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      Dear, you are warm and soft do not confuse))

                      But let’s say the feather bed cannot be warm and soft? laughing
                      The lover is ruled by the will of God, he does everything with all his heart, and money from the devil rules the professional. An amateur does not know how and therefore makes many mistakes, but he knows exactly why, and a professional knows how, but does not know exactly why.
                      1. +3
                        5 January 2018 13: 45
                        Boris, I think Poruchik says that not everything warm is feather-bed, and not every feather-bed is soft. The difference between a professional and an amateur lies in attention to detail: the amateur does not notice them, and the professional takes into account those that determine the result. Well, about the one who rules whom: I think Einstein would be very surprised to learn that by this definition he refers to lovers laughing .
                      2. +1
                        5 January 2018 14: 50
                        Quote: BMP-2
                        Einstein would be very surprised to learn that by this definition he refers to lovers

                        If Einstein knew why he wanted to make a bomb - he would be an amateur, and so, for grandmas - he is a professional. There is a lot of mind (stolen), reason - 0. laughing
                      3. +2
                        5 January 2018 19: 54
                        Perina CANNOT be warm .... She can well retain heat, which she does not emit, unfortunately ..... Why do I have to explain common truths ...?
                2. +3
                  5 January 2018 21: 30
                  Quote: Boris55
                  Let me remind you. Titinik was built by scientists,

                  The Titanic, unambiguously, was designed by engineers. And Titinik - what kind of animal is this?
                  Quote: Boris55
                  and Noah’s ark is an amateur.

                  So, first you need to prove that that Noah, in general, had a place to be! lol Although ... if we assume that Kolobok is a real historical character, then there is no sense in refusing Noah in reality !!! wassat laughing
                  Quote: Boris55
                  The smart bomb came up with

                  Undoubtedly!
                  Quote: Boris55
                  and Obninsk NPP is reasonable.

                  Phew! Directly feel better! Reptiloids from Nibiru, nevertheless, it turns out, exist! laughing
              3. +2
                7 January 2018 22: 04
                Lieutenant Teterin "And then there are a dozen lovers who have never even stood in the excavation and the banal broken shard in their hands do not take the boldness of saying that" everything was wrong, everyone lies, and we know the Truth. "
                Usually I do not agree with you.))) In matters of civil war, mainly. But, bravo here !!!
      2. Cat
        +14
        5 January 2018 07: 54
        Quote: Andrey Yuryevich
        People-deprived of nationality, these days.

        The words are beautiful, but are they true?
        I am Russian, with a touch of blood, but Russian. At least I can track my ancestors through my father up to 7 generations, and my mother up to 5. There is a mistake of the Cossack’s great-grandfather who took my great-grandmother from the Chuvash as his wife, well, I think this is not fatal.
        I speak and think in Russian. Although it differs from the main dialects of the Great Russian, it is not my fault - since I am a native of the “Gamayunschina” - a descendant of the serfs Prince Ramodanov, who were bought in bulk by N.N. Demidov in Kaluga County and relocated to Kamen. So, I and another 300 descendants of the "hamayuns" speak their own dialect, which does not fit into the harmonious schemes of philologists. Although sometimes “picnickers” have sadness, since the number of anarchisms in the vocabulary of hamayuns is an order of magnitude higher than that of an average-static resident of Russia. Dahl's dictionary to help them.
        I live in Russia. If the Ural Mountains is not Russia for someone, then I personally will come "in a slipper on ....... u." I think this is not disputed.
        I can continue further, but I think that this is enough to say in the affirmative - by blood, by soil, by language - I am Russian. Yes, let it be with flaws (the great-grandmother is to blame, but NN Demidov cannot be blasphemed like two and a quarter centuries on the graveyard), but I am Russian and somehow do not observe "your deprived people of my nationality"! Perhaps they haven’t come to the mountain yet, but don’t worry, we will calculate them and send them back!
        Time is the merciless Constructor of History, it (history) is like a kaleidoscope under the next ruler, another era, and it all depends on which side this Kaleidoscope is twisted, and how the "glass" will fall ...

        My applause! It’s better not to say, but “glass” - if they are people, sometimes “do not bend”. We had such a smart guy, an ethmologist - a philologist who at the beginning of the last century tried to explain the toponomics of the Serginsko-Ufaleysky Gornozavodsky Okrug. It's just that all the names are "Russified": the river Serga is named - Earring, Mount Scholm in the Hill, etc. "Glass" did not bend and everything remained as it is. The second attempt occurred in the years 80-90 when they carried out a topographic survey of the area as if under carbon copy, only half a kilometer Hill Hill, was called the sonorous name of Nizhne-Serginskaya. It got to the point that tickets at the box office sold to the Lower or Upper Earrings, instead of Earrings. Quietly corrected this too.
        So "glass" - "glass" is different. People like them can twist the “history kaledoscope" themselves so that a century later we’ll guess whose bones they dug up under Ganina Yama. hi
        1. +3
          5 January 2018 10: 11
          [quote] [quote = Cattle] [quote = Cattle] Words are beautiful, but are they true?
          I am Russian, mixed with blood, but Russian. [/ Quote] [/ quote] [b] [/ b]
          no Dear ... now you are a “Russian”, look at your passport.
          1. Cat
            +4
            5 January 2018 15: 15
            I will disappoint you, except for the passport, where there is no column of nationality. There are a number of accounting documents, so I list them as "Russian"!
          2. +6
            5 January 2018 15: 50
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            no Dear ... now you are a “Russian”, look at your passport.

            They’re not beating on the passport, they are beating on the face laughing
            And can you give a definition of who the Russians are?
            1. Cat
              +5
              5 January 2018 17: 47
              And in slippers?
              The Old Russian state has always been multinational. Even the "mythical" Rurik was called to the table: chud, slovenia and izher. And chud in the first place, and the Slovenes in the second. What is it for?
              Now I propose to cut out a map of Kievan Rus and apply it to the modern map of the Russian Federation or the Russian Empire of the 1913 model. Do you think our ancestors particularly bothered with the "choice of brides" or purity of blood? In the Urals, before the century before last, the church elite struggled with cases of weddings in fact. When a free Siberian people led his brides to get married, not only with a “belly”, but also with two or three little boys already at home in the shops. And what can I say, when they got from the capital to Okhotsk for a year. About the USSR, you can keep silent. What do you think if a garny crest and a black-browed Moldovan woman of what nationality were their children married? 90% are Russians!
              So the words of Nicholas I, for me, is another stroke for self-awareness of myself and a special pride in my own - RUSSIAN ROOTS.
              Now you can go into the corridor and start to wash your slippers with a displeased look!
          3. +4
            5 January 2018 18: 43
            [quote = Andrey Yuryevich] [quote] [quote = Kotische] [quote = Kotische] Words are beautiful, but is there any truth to them?
            I am Russian, mixed with blood, but Russian. [/ Quote] [/ quote] [b] [/ b]
            no Dear ... now you are a "Russian", look in your passport. [/ quote]
            You will excuse me for my insertion into your dialogue, but, Russian is the same as the Russian in today's day, and most importantly there is no blood impurity here and there cannot be! Either you are, even if you are a German even a Tatar, I won’t list all of today's Russians, or you don’t! ...
            1. Cat
              +1
              7 January 2018 08: 16
              In fact, for the layman, the judgments are more than true! No offense, but there is such a science: the theory of state and law. Which just studies the place of the individual and his role in the state system. In this connection, the concepts: ethnos, nationality and people have different contents, not only semantic but also legal. Let's sort it out on the fingers. If we take the concept of ethnos for “analysis”, then we get a certain cultural and social community — part of one nationality distinguished by territorial or other characteristics. For example: Krasnoufimskie Tatars or my favorite hamayuns. On the whole, this does not prevent the former from remaining Tatars, and the latter from Russians.
              Now about nationalities, the main sign of having your own language. Although there are small nuances? What language do Kazan, Ural, Siberian and Crimean Tatars speak. Naturally in Tatar. But practice shows that the average statistical Kazan Tatar with his Crimean counterpart will speak ... Russian. So do not twist, and these are different nations. From the court and the desire of Kazantsev to identify himself more with the Bulgars.
              Now about the people! People, the concept is not abstract, but legal, and a priori provides for the inhabitants of one country. So the pearl "the peoples of Russia" is precisely the pearl, illiterate people. But the thesis is the “multinational people of Russia” definition is more than true and accurate. The term "people" is directly tied to the individual belonging to the state and, depending on the form and type, can be expressed as "nationality" or "citizenship". For example, a subject of the Russian Empire.
              So in connection with the exercise in the USSR, the columns nationality in the passport reflects belonging to the state. Namely a citizen of the Russian Federation. Alas, the phrase "Russian" you will not find in it.
              And so we get the bottom line: most of us have their own belonging to a particular ethnic group, nationality and people.
              Example: Lower Serginsky hamayun - Russian - citizen of the Russian Federation, or
              Old Bukhara Mordvin - Mordvin - a citizen of the Russian Federation. That in general, the term - Russian defines membership in a people, not a nation.
              1. +2
                7 January 2018 17: 38
                Quote: Kotischa
                that in general the term - Russian defines membership in a people, not a nation.

                You probably just did not catch the essence of what was said, in which a place similar to a citizen of the Russian Federation was allotted for the Russian of that time.
                And the qualifications that you bring, their beginning no earlier than the end of the 18th century
        2. +1
          5 January 2018 19: 59
          Quote: Kotischa
          I’ll personally come and "in a sneaker on ....... u."

          Well, dear, in sneakers sr..y this is the lot of cats ..... You are a person, and even figuratively for you it is unworthy ....
          1. Cat
            +3
            6 January 2018 08: 31
            I’m from the bottom of my heart! wassat
      3. +2
        5 January 2018 19: 37
        They are no better than the fooled dill ..... They laugh at them, and at the same time, the same thing happens to them
    3. +23
      5 January 2018 07: 01
      Quote: NEXUS
      Now, bit by bit restore our history.

      Do you consider THIS
      The Russian superethnos (Russ) has existed from the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has at least 40 - 45 thousand years.
      history ?! belay
      Or that:
      . In the forest-steppe zone of Eurasia from the Caucasus and the Black Sea to Altai and Sayanincluding Inner Mongolialived at that time late russians of the Scythian-Siberian world
      Where are the traces of these mighty Russ cities, roads, engineering structures? A-no them. Generally. Like burial grounds and genetic traces in those areas among local peoples.
      If they were so powerful, how then
      part of the Rus was assimilated by the late Mongol and Turkic peoples, giving them khanate, princely and noble families.
      ? Where is the logic?
      And this
      Horde (from russ. "Kind"-" horde, ordnung")
      -In general, beauty!
      I join in my piggy bank to the famous
      Batu-Dad
      Mom mom
      Yes
      1. +8
        5 January 2018 07: 11
        Quote: Olgovich
        Do you consider THIS
        The Russian superethnos (Russ) has existed from the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has at least 40 - 45 thousand years.
        history ?!

        Do you have other information? So voice it ... At the same time, explain why the Slavic ethnic group is one of the most numerous in the world.
        Quote: Olgovich
        Where are the traces of these mighty Russ cities, roads, engineering structures? Oh no them

        Seriously? Definitely not? wassat So offhand ... Arkaim ... what do you know about him? And in the Crimea dolmens apparently themselves grew. I'm not talking about the fact that the writing of the Etruscans is very similar to the ancient Slavic writing. Apparently quite by accident. wassat Well, about Tartaria, I think you haven’t heard anything at all.
        1. +14
          5 January 2018 07: 29
          Quote: NEXUS
          Do you have other information? So voice her

          This is not information, but a fairy tale. And such "information", i.e. tales of a million.
          Quote: NEXUS
          Seriously? Definitely not? So offhand ... Arkaim ... what do you know about him?

          NO! Arkaim is the 20th century BC, the invasion is the 13th century AD. Where the mighty Rus hid 3 millennia?. Where are their cities, countries, etc.?
          And Arkaim is the URAL, and not inner Mongolia and Altai, where the Russians ruled (according to the author).
          WHERE are the traces of their 3 thousand-year-old activity: only .... horde-ordnung? Or Batu-Dad? laughing With mom mom? lol
          1. +5
            5 January 2018 07: 34
            Quote: Olgovich
            NO! Arkaim - 20th century BC

            25th century approximately ... where 5 centuries were written off?
            Quote: Olgovich
            Where were the mighty Rus hiding for 3 millennia ?. Where are their cities, countries, etc.?

            So read about Tartaria and you will be happy ... wassat You are referring to Western authoritative historians, so take a look at the Great British Encyclopedia of the 19th century, where a map of Tartaria and explanations are shown in black and white, what and how ...
            Quote: Olgovich
            And Arkaim is the URAL, and not inner Mongolia and Altai, where the Russians ruled (according to the author).

            And Crimean dolmens, it seems to you, Crimean Tatars erected 10 thousand years ago. wassat
            1. +13
              5 January 2018 07: 49
              Quote: NEXUS
              25th century approximately ... where 5 centuries were written off?

              The 25th century ... At least the 30th.
              Quote: NEXUS
              read about Tartaria and you will be happy

              Quote: NEXUS
              So read about Tartaria and you will be happy ..

              Present CITIES, DAMS, ROADS for three thousand years of Russ activity from the Pacific Ocean to Europe. Ancient Rome existed much less and its similar traces are everywhere and everywhere. You have nothing.
              Quote: NEXUS
              And Crimean dolmens, it seems to you, Crimean Tatars erected 10 thousand years ago.

              No, the Koreans! Yes For in Korea, most of all dolmens. And in North Africa, by the way. Or .... and this is all-RUSSIAN zabatsatsya ?! belay request
              I begin to guess who Jesus was by nationality and who dug up the World Ocean! Yes (To be continued, it follows)
              1. +6
                5 January 2018 08: 04
                Quote: Olgovich
                Present CITIES, DAMS, ROADS for three thousand years of Russ activity from the Pacific Ocean to Europe.

                Well, since you are too lazy to look, and it’s easier to put up with the fact that there is no other story than the one you stuffed into your head, if you please ..

                And here is the link from the foreign wiki ... https: //commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: Wi
                tsen _-_ Tartaria.jpg

                Quote: Olgovich
                You have nothing.

                wassat Of course, from where? wassat And in Nikolai Witsen, in 1705, too, there was absolutely nothing, and he wrote every heresy to the Portuguese National Library, and even drew a map. wassat
                1. +14
                  5 January 2018 09: 08
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Well, since you are too lazy to look, and it’s easier to put up with the fact that there is no other story than the one you stuffed into your head, if you please ..

                  Yes, we know, we know these "cards". Kindly from the same series:
                  hi
                  1. +8
                    5 January 2018 10: 28
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Yes, we know, we know these "cards". Kindly from the same series:

                    No need to juggle, dear. You asked for cities, roads and dams ... I showed you the maps, not crap with the zoo. Moreover, not from our encyclopedia. And these are documents confirmed, that is, Tartaria is not a distant land on elephants and whales. And since you have nothing to cover, you are posting stupid drawings here.
                    1. +12
                      5 January 2018 11: 34
                      I already wrote about this once, apparently, I have to repeat it. Tartaria is the European name for the Horde. According to the norms of that time, tributary states that paid tribute were recognized as part of the state to which they paid. Equating to vassals. From here on the European maps they drew a huge “Tataria” —the Tatar Horde, together with tributaries.
                      1. +4
                        5 January 2018 13: 52
                        Human memory is a strange thing
                        it seems to be there, but it seems to be gone. laughing

                        A person is mostly inclined to remember only that which corresponds to his picture of the world. request I think that I will have to repeat more and more ...
                    2. +4
                      6 January 2018 00: 18
                      I’ve seen a map here. It was written that the people here live here. Where are they? and to which haplogroup of Russ did they belong?
                      1. +2
                        7 January 2018 08: 42
                        Quote: HanTengri
                        It's funny to look at yourself in the mirror, isn't it, Olgovich? You may ask: what is common? In general - strange voices in the head, spewing out streams of information, without the slightest hint of a material source.

                        Leave me alone, man! You have already been so many times .., and you, again and again, are being imposed and bothering .... Neither pride, nor anything.
                        I DO NOT READ You: a notification about the answer is displayed, I open, thinking that there is an interesting interlocutor, and there is a lover of mat and gu-ana. Phew! No.
                        Spare me, my dear. person: click on the "quote" button rather than the "Reply" and-and exercise. Yes
                    3. +5
                      6 January 2018 06: 38
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      You asked for cities, roads and dams ... I told you cards showed, not crap with the zoo

                      That's it, I asked for "cities, roads, dams." Have you shown the daub 18th century about Tartaria in ... territory Of Russia under Peter I fool
                      1. +3
                        6 January 2018 20: 06
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        You asked for cities, roads and dams ... I showed you maps, not crap with a zoo
                        That's it, I asked for "cities, roads, dams." lol And you showed the daub of the 18 century about Tartaria on ... the territory of Russia under PETER I laughing

                        It's funny to look at yourself in the mirror, isn't it, Olgovich? You may ask: what is common? lol In general - strange voices in the head, spewing out streams of information, without the slightest hint of the material source thereof. laughing
              2. +3
                5 January 2018 20: 06
                laughing laughing laughing I can’t observe the answers to this “comrade” for you differently ... JUST RJU !!!
              3. +1
                5 January 2018 20: 10
                The author of these opuses very quickly rivets them ... And, as I understand it, taking into account all of our comments .... Right now I get to know them .... laughing
          2. +3
            5 January 2018 11: 45
            Quote: Olgovich
            Arkaim - 20th century BC, the invasion - 13th century AD. Where were the mighty Rus hiding for 3 millennia ?. Where are their cities, countries, etc.?

            Even now there is such a city as Samara, before there was also the city of Arkona, summarize: Samara + Arkona = Samarkand, and it is officially 2400 years old (then there were no Uzbeks yet, and people spoke a dialect of the Russian language still called Farsi there. Maybe they didn’t hear?) Give more examples? After all, there is not enough space on the site.
            1. +10
              5 January 2018 12: 30
              Farsi - Russian dialect ?! laughing starved!
              1. +8
                5 January 2018 13: 53
                There is an initial heresy in the short, but wondrous time! laughing
              2. Cat
                +9
                5 January 2018 14: 47
                Farsi is a dialect of Russian ....

                Doctor, we lose him!
                1. +2
                  5 January 2018 20: 31
                  Quote: Kotischa
                  Farsi is a dialect of Russian....

                  Let me remind you that almost all of today's languages ​​are actually dialects of the Russian language, only its very ancient form. Any questions? By the way, about the Persian empire, maybe someone knows when and where and with what genetics the ancient Persians came to the territory of modern Iran, otherwise the local level of knowledge is striking in its baseboard level. It is necessary to rise in the level of one’s education, naturally, if not too late. According to linguists, the coincidence in root words with modern Russian is 36%, which completely coincides with theories of the divergence of languages ​​in time. Is this also not known?
                  1. +4
                    5 January 2018 20: 42
                    Quote: venaya
                    Let me remind you that almost all of today's languages ​​are actually dialects of the Russian language, only its very ancient form. Any questions?

                    Yes !!!!
                    Dialect (Greek. Διάλεκτος - "dialect" from the Greek. Διαλέγομαι - "speak, speak") - a kind of language that is used as a means of communication between people connected by one territory. A dialect is a full-fledged system of verbal communication (oral or symbolic, ..

                    Quote: venaya
                    By the way about the Persian empire, maybe someone knows when and where and with what genetics the ancient Persians came to the territory of modern Iran, and then the local level of knowledge is striking in its baseboard level.

                    This is visible in your previous post.

                    Quote: venaya
                    According to linguists coincidence in root words with modern Russian is 36%that completely converge with theories of the divergence of languages ​​in time. This is also not known.

                    With what ? with Farsi?
                    laughing
                    1. +1
                      5 January 2018 20: 50
                      Quote: karish
                      With what ? with Farsi?

                      Of course with Farsi! Let me remind you that future Persians came from the north and had genetics close to the genetics of Russian-speaking “Scythians”, that is, derivatives from the haplogroup R1a1, the haplotype “Z-93” and relatives. If there is at least some other information, then I will be grateful for the link to it, even in PM. By the way, here on the website about the Persians there was a film, and an American one, and in it everything that I write converges to the smallest detail.
                    2. +4
                      6 January 2018 00: 23
                      and yet Hebrew is this a dialect of Russian? and ... Jews stole our language from us wassat
                      1. +3
                        6 January 2018 02: 00
                        Quote: Long in stock.
                        Hebrew is a dialect of Russian?

                        Well, how can one be so illiterate? Hebrew appeared recently, modern Hebrew appears in 1913, thanks to the efforts of Zionist V.E.Zhabotinsky, who managed to convince his fellow tribesmen that Hebrew is also a kosher language, along with Yiddish. Although both the Talmud and Shulchan Aruch are written in Hebrew, there are several other dialects of the language about it. Hebrew owes its origin to the language and writing of the Phoenicians, who in turn pulled writing (like the "Greeks") and probably the basis of the language among the Pelazgs (Philistines), these are residents of ancient settlements of non-Orthodox Russians and another branch of religion, that is, "manifest" or "javus". That is, there should be some kind of connection between the language of the Javus Russ and the inhabitants of the Pale camp (Palestine now), though I personally was not very interested in this language branch, please study it yourself.
              3. +7
                5 January 2018 20: 14
                You do not calm down ..... Venya we have the same Klondike of such new inventions
                Quote: alatanas
                Farsi - Russian dialect

                laughing Be prepared to hear something worse ... laughing
            2. +4
              5 January 2018 20: 08
              Venya ...! Your extravaganza of your imagination is just rampant ..... !!! Offset! laughing laughing laughing
            3. +7
              5 January 2018 22: 15
              Quote: venaya
              Even now there is such a city as Samara, before there was also the city of Arkona, summarize: Samara + Arkona = Samarkand,

              Samara is a city in the Middle Volga region. The city of Arkona existed until the XII century and was located on the cape of the same name on the island of Rugen.
              Attention question:
              1) On what basis can this be folded?
              2) How, if this is added up, can Samarkand (a city in Central Asia) turn out?
              3) What “interesting” substances should be taken before that?
            4. +2
              6 January 2018 00: 20
              hey allo. do not touch your native city .. there is no and no ark here ... there is a Samarka river. And the name is Tatar. like all the rivers in our area .. and it doesn’t bother us Russians ..
              1. +2
                6 January 2018 02: 07
                Quote: Long in stock.
                .. there is no archon here and there was no ... there is the Samarka river, and the name is Tatar, like all the rivers in our region ..

                Gosha! A Tatars were not previously Rus? And about Arkona, Ar-Kon is the purest Russian-language term, such places in Russia were apparently not visible - this is a religious place for the departure of the Vedic religions. Didn't you know? The term Samara, that is, Sam-Ar, is the purest Russian-language and, at the same time, religious term. It is also advisable to know about this!
                1. +2
                  6 January 2018 09: 16
                  and next to it there are such rivers as kinel .. kondurcha .. juice ... irgiz .. well, how to pull this owl on the globe ... I’ll go call my Tatars .. I’ll tell him that before, very long ago he was also like me gray and high ....
        2. +5
          5 January 2018 16: 20
          and Stonehenge, too, have established the Rus? A rare case when I agree with Olgovich as if it were not unpleasant for me ..
          1. +2
            5 January 2018 16: 46
            Quote: Long in stock.
            and Stonehenge also installed the Rus?

            Do you have any other options on this subject? If not, then by definition, such as the whole of present-day Europe was dominated precisely by the Rus (R1a1), then any other options can be considered simply incredible or negligible. If you manage to find at least one more possible option on this question, then perhaps this will be a really great scientific breakthrough. Really try to offer something new, then we will separately consider this issue.
            1. +3
              5 January 2018 23: 58
              yeah .. what do you prove? haplogroups? Wow..


              how easy it is to be a believer .. it’s interesting where everyone has gone .. the Romans somehow mentioned the Picts. but there are no Russians. and now I understand. it’s then that the evil West began to remake our history .. ugly Germans ..
              1. +2
                6 January 2018 02: 14
                Quote: Long in stock.
                what do you prove? haplogroups?

                Of course, haplogroups are now much easier to prove, and on both sides of the male and female lines. But earlier, and I dealt with this issue for a long time, everything was clear at least from the Russian-speaking etymology of the names of localities, villages, rivers of lakes, etc. as well as religious beliefs, so they all over the world have Russian roots. By the way, and when you personally met with the ancient Romans - this question is very interesting, describe it in more detail, it is very important.
                1. +4
                  6 January 2018 09: 18
                  your haplogroups are full crap. The creator is modern, so to speak. And read carefully, the Picts met with the Romans - I'm not a pict ...
      2. +4
        5 January 2018 09: 15
        Quote: Olgovich
        Quote: NEXUS
        Now, bit by bit restore our history.

        Do you consider THIS
        The Russian superethnos (Russ) exists from the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has at least 40 - 45 thousand. years old.
        history ?! belay

        No honey this is no longer a story story - It already smells of open science, based on the latest scientific research, and in various fields of science, not religious fiction! I think that this moment should be distinguished: stories and science are completely different concepts, do not confuse them.
        1. +9
          5 January 2018 09: 19
          Quote: venaya
          No dear, this is no longer a story tale - this is already smells frank science

          Nice man, science doesn't smell.
          There are no traces of Siberian Russ activity
          1. +4
            5 January 2018 09: 23
            Quote: Olgovich
            There are no traces of Siberian Russ activity

            This is still where such fiction? Maybe for religious reasons you are forbidden to study the scientific works of scientists of another religious denomination? Then another thing, just don’t call it all science, it’s better to come up with a different term, for example: "Cropped science"After all, it will be more accurate, isn't it?
            1. +7
              5 January 2018 10: 09
              And here are real! The science of circumcision is done.
              1. +4
                5 January 2018 10: 15
                Quote: avva2012
                .. The science of circumcision done.

                What is the first time or what? In my opinion, this happens permanently, for a century now.
                1. +9
                  5 January 2018 10: 25
                  Ah, I thought I was joking. Damn me Petrosyan, will have to retrain as a management house.
                  1. +1
                    6 January 2018 06: 26
                    Tell me, did you also destroy the bell tower?
        2. +6
          5 January 2018 13: 58
          Quote: venaya
          No dear, this is no longer a story tale

          Vyacheslav, it seems to me that such a “science” is somewhat contagious: Ukrainians also now find confirmation of their 140-year history, and in various fields! lol But with the fact that it is worth distinguishing between tales and science - I completely agree! Yes
      3. +2
        5 January 2018 20: 02
        It seems to me that it’s pointless to convince them of something .....
        Quote: Olgovich
        part of the Rus was assimilated by the late Mongol and Turkic peoples, giving them khan, princely and noble families.

        Riot of extravaganza ........ !!!
    4. +2
      5 January 2018 08: 03
      History is generally cyclical. What was done with Russia, covering it with a * Mongol invasion * is quite possible to correlate with the Civil War, when representatives of the nobility and those who served them, to preserve their own well-being, called on the foreign invaders.
      All this happened recently, there are even eyewitness accounts. And how much democratic der.a poured out on those who defended their homeland. Why is it that just over 10% of the population try to pass out crying for the suffering of the whole people? That’s the fact that more than 80% of the population of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE practically had no rights; this is normal and acceptable for Democrats.
      Well, why cry all of these, and fat and their lackeys today is so popular?
      1. +5
        5 January 2018 11: 31
        Quote: Vasily50
        Here is the fact that more than 80% of the population of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE practically had no rights,


        Excuse me, what fairy tale did you get this from? Reforms of Alexander II de facto equalized the population of the Republic of Ingushetia in their rights. Everyone was equal before the trial — both the prince and the peasant. For example, look at the number of acquittals at that time — there has never been such a case in domestic jurisprudence since 1917. And the Basic Laws of 1905 secured the basic rights of citizens at the constitutional level.
        1. +3
          5 January 2018 14: 00
          Speaking of “rights”, Vasily apparently means “opportunities” after all ...
      2. +3
        5 January 2018 16: 14
        BMP, as the aunt even does not notice the obvious.
        I can give as an example the construction on the river. Volkhov building a hydroelectric power station to produce aluminum from local bauxites. Nikolai the second demanded that the owners sell the already built hydroelectric power station to the French on the terms of the French themselves: a deferment of payment of up to twenty years and a price set by the French themselves. Nicholas was then dependent on loans. This was done in relation to the very non-poor citizens of RUSSIA. And there were many such examples. By the way, look for the date of the abolition of corporal punishment for lower ranks. The history of the opening of HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS in SIBERIA is very interesting. Take an interest, maybe you will understand, in addition to the lamentations of the former which they refused to contain.
        1. +1
          5 January 2018 16: 41
          Quote: Vasily50
          R. Volkhov. Nikolay the second demanded that the owners sell already rebuilt French hydroelectric power station on the terms of the French themselves: deferred payment of up to twenty years and the price was set by the French buyers themselves.

          belay fool
          When it was rebuilt, Nikolai had long been in the grave
          Quote: Vasily50
          UNIVERSITY OPENING IN SIBERIA

          You would like to know WHERE ALL the leaders of atomic and space projects learned and WHO learned them: in Russian imperial universities and Russians imperial scholars and teachers.
        2. +3
          5 January 2018 18: 09
          Do not confuse the Volkhovstroy hydroelectric power station and the fact that they built it in the RUSSIAN EMPIRE, by the way, the aluminum plant was not launched at that time, in view of the power plant weaning. By the way, the power plant was unique, its dam did NOT SHOP Volkhov. The aluminum plant in Volkhov bauxite was launched only in 1932.
          1. +1
            5 January 2018 22: 44
            Quote: Vasily50
            Do not confuse the Volkhovstroy hydroelectric power station and the fact that they built it in the RUSSIAN EMPIRE, by the way, the aluminum plant was not launched at that time, in view of the power plant weaning. By the way, the power station was unique, her dam did not overlap Volkhov

            Seriously ?
            He lived in Volkhov for several years, on the hydroelectric power station walked up, the dam does not overlap the Volkhov? belay
        3. +4
          5 January 2018 22: 49
          Quote: Vasily50
          BMP, as the aunt even does not notice the obvious.

          Let's just say: the Lieutenant has a certain tendency to idealize old-regime times. On this basis, we sometimes copy it and break each other laughing . But in the case of Tartaria, about which he writes above, and from which some are inclined to deduce statehood, I agree with him: this is ordinary bullshit. Well, I completely agree with you that the satisfaction of the interests, rights and opportunities of the minority cannot serve as the basis for statements about the "progressiveness" of the then RI.
      3. 0
        6 January 2018 06: 29
        Quote: Vasily50
        what they did to Russia, covering it * with the Mongol invasion * is quite possible to correlate with the Civil War

        The Mongol invasion is one of the elements of what "created" with Russia, before that the Khazars could not cope.
    5. +3
      5 January 2018 09: 01
      Quote: NEXUS
      All these are the notions of Western historians who either intentionally or from blunt conceit purposely distorted our history, inscribing non-existent pages into the book of our history, at the same time removing the truth from it.


      The article has logic, but no analysis. A few excerpts from the article;

      The united army of the Ryazan land moved to the border. There were professional squads of princes and boyars, skilled fighters, well trained and armed, there was a city militia and a zemstvo army.


      Powerful earthen ramparts and ditches surrounded the city on three sides. On the fourth side to the Oka there was a steep river bank. The ramparts of the fortress reached a height of 9 - 10 m, with a width at the base of up to 23 - 24 m, the ditches in front of them had up to 8 m of depth. On the shafts stood wooden walls made of log cabins, filled for strength with rammed earth, clay and stones. Such walls were very stable. The problem was that the main forces of Ryazan had already died in the battle of Voronezh.


      Somehow it's all strange. They throw a heavily fortified stronghold with reserves, and go to meet a huge army to die. What can be called the action of such a prince?
      You think this is also invented in the west.
    6. +1
      5 January 2018 18: 40
      Quote: NEXUS
      There was no Iga and the Tatar-Mongol invasion.
      This can be reliably confirmed only after the genetic analysis of the "Mongol-Tatars". Where is this data, why is it not given by the author of the article? Now, if there were the genetic data of Batu and his descendants on the male line, which confirmed that they were Slavs or Caucasians, then this is different, and so it all remains at the blah blah blah level. According to the Varangians, for example, the genetic data set a solid point: the Varangians were Slavs.
      1. +4
        5 January 2018 21: 07
        Quote: Traveler
        this can only be argued after genetic analysis of the "Mongolo-Tatars". Where is this data, why is it not cited by the author of the article?

        If you are able to provide samples of these same "Mongol-Tatars", then in this case there will be a discovery in science. However, due to the fact that the so-called "Mongol-Tatars" themselves could not be found anywhere (due to their complete absence), it can be stated with a high degree of certainty that the "Iga" itself was not there. I consider the claims to the author of the article to be insolvent, he only publishes what is currently known with a sufficient degree of certainty.
        1. 0
          6 January 2018 06: 32
          Ivan the Terrible took Kazan (Shpaka did not take), it was before that, it was.
        2. +1
          6 January 2018 13: 02
          Quote: venaya
          However, due to the fact that the so-called "Mongol-Tatars" themselves could not be found anywhere (due to their complete absence)
          You have a logical contradiction, obviously you have a problem with a sense of logic. Was there an invasion of Russia? It was. Are there burials of those who carried out the invasion or not? This is the question that needs to be answered in the article. And so the author is all over, except for speculation there is nothing.
          In itself, the lack of genes of the Mongols in the Russian people is not proof. The author contradicts himself, as he claims in the article that ordinary people were hiding in the forests, respectively, women, in the cities they either died or were taken away as such, with the subsequent leaving of the woman to give birth as a mass phenomenon and might not have happened. Therefore, it is not surprising that we do not have Mongolian genes.
          Quote: venaya
          I consider the claims to the author of the article to be insolvent, he only publishes what is currently known with a sufficient degree of certainty.
          That's just the point the author does not give any evidence, only speculation. Now the evidence can only be a genetic examination, but there is no evidence regarding those who invaded Russia.
    7. +2
      6 January 2018 08: 14
      finally, Samsonov came closer to understanding real history. But only in terms of the position of the white man, the Russian in history. But even in this form, the STEPS against RUSSIA does not see the story clearly.
      For example, Fomenko and Nosovsky see "Tataromongol" TMI campaigns, like the Rus-Horde wars directed to the west. This is probably more correct.
      The point of view that there was a war between the Russian steppes and the Russian saddles is probably possible taking into account the civil war in the 20th century, but the evidence for such a war is weak. The only thing that can be said in the affirmative is that the TMI did not exist in a classical form, a lot of evidence.
    8. +2
      6 January 2018 13: 46
      NEXUS, don’t you yourself see or understand that the article is complete nonsense designed for idiots. Judging by the text, the author of the article considers idiots all those who, for some reason, caught the eye of the author’s nonsense and he read it. If you do not believe it, go to Hyperborea or find your Aryan ancestors.
    9. The comment was deleted.
      1. +5
        6 January 2018 22: 32
        Quote: ivankursk46
        Vaska the drunk from a neighboring entrance told me that the nexus’s mother is a prostitute, and her father is homosexual.

        My parents are in the land ... and your parents, who are offended by all means, will not help not your parents, nor the Lord God himself. You are a pity. It makes no sense to be offended by the weak on the head and the flawed ones; nature has already cheated them.
        1. +2
          7 January 2018 08: 07
          It's not about who your parents were, why don't you understand this ....? The thing is that in this example you were also told the methods of your work - NO CONFIRMING FACTS ....
          1. +4
            7 January 2018 11: 51
            Quote: Dzungar
            NO CONFIRMING FACTS ....

            Dear know-it-all, what facts can you provide in defense of what the Tatar-Mongol Igo was?
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
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            2. 0
              10 January 2018 07: 12
              They answered you for me ..... And that is exactly so. It’s strange because I would look if I would prove to a certain creature that pokes into the sky and says that “this is the earth” that it’s not so ... The analogy of you and this creature is direct .... If you say something, prove it. I’m not saying anything. Numerous scientists claim with their research, which you DO NOT Smell from the word AT ALL ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
    10. The comment was deleted.
      1. 0
        10 January 2018 14: 33
        What will your theory be called ...? "Velikielitvinobelorus" living 100500 years ago and giving rise to humanity ...? In between, walking around, liberating Russia from the Horde ....
        1. The comment was deleted.
  2. +35
    5 January 2018 06: 52
    The article is a fat minus for its complete anti-science and truly enchanting delusionality. The author does not cite a single reference to scientific research, but instead the article is full of linguophrism in the style of "Etruscan is Russian" and arguments at the level of "but I am sure of that." A separate indignation is caused by the author’s attempts to rewrite history for the sake of pseudo-historical myths of neopagans. No, I understand that it’s hard for the author to accept reality and stop writing fairy tales about “pagan Russians who have gathered a colossal army, but still I would advise him to accept reality, as well as the fact that our Slav ancestors consciously chose Orthodox Christianity and finally cease to mock the history of their people and their Fatherland. And one more friendly advice to the author (if he reads the comments) —how soon you want to describe the mighty empire of the ancient Slavs — leave the story and engage in prose. Write a series of fantasy or alternative story novels about the Great Arctic Empire of the Aryans with powerful heroes, dazzling beauties, hand-held mammoths, and brotherhoods of battle magicians. Your fantasy is great, so the books should be wonderful. And such a Slavic fantasy, even I enjoy reading.
    1. +5
      5 January 2018 07: 30
      But I don’t quite agree with you. An article from a series of articles and films (see the link) The author has some speculations. But only because there are no confirmed facts about some historical events presented to us in schools. You won’t deny that there is a failure in the whole millennium of our history. Why are light-blond, Slavic-looking, tall people found in millennial burial mounds in the deep Siberian taiga. With rich utensils, china from China, and weapons. I myself was on one such, and I don’t have answer? I considered the indigenous peoples of the Khanty, Evenki, Tungus, Yakuts, etc.And it turns out to be wrong? http: //old.archeo-news.ru/2014/09/blog-post_5
      6.html
      1. +15
        5 January 2018 11: 15
        Excuse me, I have never denied the presence in Siberia of traces of a number of cultures that can be anthropologically attributed to Caucasians. This is a fact and an indisputable fact. Such cultures include, for example, the Andronovo or Afafnasyevsky cultures, and historical science itself has long recognized the fact of the existence of developed Caucasian cultures in Siberia in antiquity. The point is different: there is no reason to argue that all these cultures consisted of political and economic ties with each other and formed a state like Rome or Egypt. There are no written or oral sources confirming this.
    2. +3
      5 January 2018 09: 47
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      Article—bold minus for its complete anti-science and truly enchanting delusionality.

      What was it? What is it that turns out that today's, taught to everyone in different countries, and more often in different ways (depending on the requirements of the moment) "History" is a true "science"? It does not seem to you that by doing so you insult very many people of science who often sacrifice their lives (here we recall M. Lomonosov and others) in search of truth and truth. What is written today in modern textbooks simply offends most people at least in our country. and not only. And again: "ET-Ruski - this Russian"- because there have already been plenty of documents collected on this subject, except for the frank consonance of this Latin word with the modern term of the Russian language. But you don’t get it - you want to put as much of your own and others' stool as possible on a rather well-developed topic. What is the reason such neglect of the past of Russia? In addition to the permanent desire to enslave the remnants of the Russian ethnic group, no other explanation has yet been found.
      1. +13
        5 January 2018 11: 26
        Excuse me generously, but even if someone neglects the past of Russia and its history, these are folk “historians” who replace the real history of the Slavs, confirmed by material, written and oral sources, with their tales about “Slavic-Aryans” and some empires 30-40 thousand years ago. As for Lomonosov, the replacement of a real biography with tales of mythical imprisonment and murder is no less offensive to the memory of the great scientist.
        1. +3
          5 January 2018 11: 53
          The term "folk - “historians”“it’s offensive to the hearing of a Russian person, because both roots of these words are not of Russian origin. There is a lot of information about M. Lomonosov, only the mass media often bypass this topic, although they even spoke in detail about Russia 24, I’ll look for it Someone who is very financially secure allows himself to massively throw disinformation in sky-high volumes - hence the difficulties with finding more reliable information. I hope this is already visible to many.
          1. +5
            5 January 2018 13: 02
            Okay, let there be the "storytellers". So Wenedish?
            1. +4
              5 January 2018 17: 39
              No, Sivolapot-storytellers is a remake, it is only 20 thousand years old. But the original, 45-thousand-year exposure is the word for them, Dolboslavs!
          2. +10
            5 January 2018 13: 18
            Quote: venaya
            the term "folk-" historians "is offensive to the hearing of a Russian person

            Here is how? Is this word offensive to you because it has no Russian roots? Then here are some more words that you can insult and throw out of your vocabulary:
            --A hero. The name of the original Russian, strong and wise hero of epic reality comes from the ancient Turkic baatur and the Danube-Bulgarian batur. The meaning of the word is “brave”, “hero” or “commander”.
            --Horde. The word appeared in our vocabulary even before the invasion of the Mongol-Tatar invaders - from the Polovtsy (presumably). The original meaning of the word “horde” is a union of nomadic tribes or a gang / promiscuous crowd.
            --Tent. The word spread in a number of Slavic languages ​​(including in Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Polish, Slovenian). Initially, it has Persian origin (cаtr - “screening, tent”), and penetrated to us through Turkic languages.
            --Horse. Along with the root words (loshevod - Konokrad, loshak - young stallion), comes from the ancient Turkic languages ​​(translation from the Chuvash word lasa; in the Crimean Tatar - alasa).
            Guard. The basis of the word was the Turkic verb "watch." In the Turkic languages ​​themselves, “guard” had the meaning of “patrol” or “guard”, but there were other equivalent concepts that were not typical of our language. An example is “a gun on a gun”.
            Money. The word “money” in the Turkic languages ​​meant any coin made of silver - it migrated to us in the XNUMXth century in a similar sense. It is interesting to note that in a number of languages ​​(Kyrgyz, Uzbek, Kazakh), the root of this word has a second meaning - protein. The thing is that in ancient times, fur was often used by people as a currency.
            Master. The history of the word originates precisely during the period of the Tatar-Mongol invasion. Initially appeared in the Persian language (“Khoja” - master), from where it migrated to the Turkic dialects.
            Quiver. A vivid example of direct borrowing in the military sphere - the Russian word "quiver" originates from the Tatar kolcan, kulcan.
            But Latin gave us so many words ... justice (“justice”, “legality”), alibi (“in another place”), verdict (“truth is pronounced”), lawyer (from Latin “I urge”), notary public - ( “Scribe”), protocol (“first sheet”), visa (“viewed”), etc. The words version ("turn") and intrigue ("confuse") are also of Latin origin. The Romans came up with the word lapsus - "fall", "mistake", "wrong move." Greek and Latin origin has most medical terms. As an example of borrowings from the Greek language, one can cite such words as anatomy (“dissection”), agony (“struggle”), hormone (“I bring into motion”), diagnosis (“definition”), diet (“lifestyle”, "Mode"), paroxysm ("irritation"). The following terms are of Latin origin: hospital (“hospitable”), immunity (“liberation from anything”), disabled person (“powerless”, “weak”), invasion (“attack”), muscle (“mouse”), obstruction ("blockage"), obliteration ("destruction"), pulse ("push").
            So if you are insulted by borrowed words in Russian, remove them from your speech and I will be happy to see which version of the Russian language you will speak. If, of course, I can understand you at all.
            PS As for the word "folk historian" .... then I give you the option of "false ancestor." You can use as much as you like. laughing
            1. Cat
              +5
              5 January 2018 14: 42
              They are storytellers! More precisely balabol from history, I would say the truth is a womb, but I think censorship will not miss.
              I am alarmed by the other, who "dances the girl" we see, and whose music?
              1. +2
                5 January 2018 20: 30
                This "music" as well as all subversive work among the peoples of Russia has ONE authorship .....
              2. +3
                5 January 2018 21: 45
                How's whose? Genghis Khan group, composition "Moskaw"
            2. +2
              5 January 2018 14: 52
              Everything is correct, only a horn is a donkey offspring from a stallion, barren
              1. Cat
                +4
                5 January 2018 18: 49
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Everything is correct, only a horn is a donkey offspring from a stallion, barren

                Spit through your left shoulder and knock on a tree, otherwise Oparyshev will come!
                1. +3
                  5 January 2018 21: 50
                  Yes, come on! All the "raspberries" immediately and cover.
            3. +3
              5 January 2018 17: 37
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              And Latin gave us so many words ...

              Actually, "Latin"as our site colleagues write to me even here 90% consists of words with Russian roots. The ancestor of the current Russian language itself was born according to calculations in the area 30 - 60 thousand years ago. But the whole Turkic language group is essentially a dialect of a very ancient Russian language and God forbid 16 years ago. So your "research" smells more like just really "folk history", a foreign spill naturally does not correlate with the works of modern linguistic scientists, but it's a pity.
              1. 0
                10 January 2018 16: 00
                Well no. More than 50% of the words are Belarusian, the rest are Turkic and others. By the way "sniff" in translation from Belarusian "well, let it be." )))
        2. +3
          5 January 2018 20: 27
          One thing is not clear to me - what do they achieve by this ...? They will destroy the old story ... They will get confused in the new one, because each of them will come up with his own, namely the most faithful and correct one. As a result, they will remain nothing ... They are achieving this ...?
          1. +3
            5 January 2018 23: 26
            Well, this is just obvious: in order to control a person’s behavior, first you need to bring him out of equilibrium: to deprive the internal balance. In the end, changing ideas about the past can also be used to change values, replacing some with others. However, the Americans have long been doing this, developing and implementing the theory of "controlled chaos" ...
            1. +2
              6 January 2018 14: 18
              Quote: BMP-2
              However, the Americans have long been doing this, developing and implementing the theory of "controlled chaos" ...

              without Americans, there are enough people involved in IDB. Since this is also in demand by the mass consumer, such "stories" are given out with a bang, in which even a cat with a lamp is afraid to come.
      2. +3
        5 January 2018 14: 13
        Vyacheslav, but the phrase “true history” itself does not bother you? After all, if we assume that such a thing really exists, then we need to talk about "true physics", "true chemistry", "true physiology" ... One of the key features of science is non-ossification and the development of knowledge: in science often , which was considered proven, can be refuted by subsequent studies. And for science this is normal. Einstein's theory does not in any way offend Newton's theory. Pavlov’s theory of higher nervous activity does not offend Galen’s theory of temperaments ... There was a time when optics was considered a completely explored and finished field - but then it turned out that this was far from the case! Well, I think Michel Eugene Chevreul was right when he expressed in his own motto the whole essence of science: "Always strive for truth, but never claim it!"
      3. +2
        5 January 2018 22: 29
        Quote: venaya
        And again: "ET-Russians are Russian" - so there are already plenty of documents collected on this subject

        Will you bring a couple?
      4. +3
        6 January 2018 06: 35
        Quote: venaya
        What is the reason for such neglect of the past of Russia?

        because the essence of the aggression itself is indiscriminate as to what many have revealed in the branch.
        1. +2
          6 January 2018 09: 09
          That's for sure. When a certain SEAL reacts inappropriately to the mere mention of the name of the Hebrews and begins to accuse him of anti-Semitism - THIS ALREADY TALKS ABOUT WHO HE IS .... And, moreover, for all his peers, he is actively involved in promoting this nonsense .. Why would a Jew seem to ...?
    3. +2
      5 January 2018 13: 11
      That's for sure. EKSMO and Ast will cut each other in full for the right to publish.
    4. +2
      5 January 2018 20: 21
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      Write a series of fantasy or alternative story novels about the Great Arctic Empire of the Aryans with powerful heroes, dazzling beauties, hand-held mammoths, and brotherhoods of battle magicians. Your fantasy is great, so the books should be wonderful. And such a Slavic fantasy, even I enjoy reading.

      This is too difficult for Samson. Simply impossible .... Maximum thin brochure with these little things
  3. +10
    5 January 2018 07: 25
    at that time lived the late Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world, the heirs of Great Scythia, the Aryan and Boreal world
    ... And how is this confirmed ...
    1. +7
      5 January 2018 07: 57
      Quote: parusnik
      at that time lived the late Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world, the heirs of Great Scythia, the Aryan and Boreal world
      ... And how is this confirmed ...

      it’s written in a book! Yes
      1. +7
        5 January 2018 10: 02
        In a book edited by Prokopenko ....?
        1. +4
          5 January 2018 10: 17
          Quote: parusnik
          In a book edited by Prokopenko ....?

          A book edited by Prokopenko is no longer a book but something else? Can we then define what is a book and what is not?
          1. +11
            5 January 2018 11: 04
            The incredible adventures of Baron Munchausen, also a book. We take ourselves for a scalp, and ....
            1. +3
              5 January 2018 11: 14
              Quote: avva2012
              The incredible adventures of Baron Munchausen, also a book.

              And how do today's history textbooks in almost all countries differ from such a fabulously written fiction? Do you really manage to find the difference in such literary works. Unfortunately, from the very beginning of writing all kinds of "Stories", their scientific level has not gone far from writing such various tales, and for many people, the current level of "scientific" can no longer satisfy the modern, not yet completely zombified society, especially in our country in the country.
              1. +5
                5 January 2018 14: 17
                Well, Alexander says this about this: you need to separate flies from cutlets, stories from science. And then because the fact that zombies re-bomb - in fact, nothing will change! laughing
                1. +1
                  5 January 2018 20: 06
                  Quote: BMP-2
                  need to separate flies from cutlets, stories from science. And then because the fact that zombies re-bomb - in fact, nothing will change!

                  I didn’t understand the question here, it’s like I never equated honey with such opposite concepts as science and “History”, because the latter is by no means written so that at least some truth is written in it, maximum likelihood, no more. Yes, I confess, I had a connection with the true representatives of really Science with a capital letter, engaged in truly true knowledge in this area. But how many are there in this world? Shares of a percent, and those in the ultimate pen, though they have tremendous authority among specialists. But mostly people work for the loot, they are often not interested in the truth, to know it is not only difficult but also dangerous, including for life. So I did not understand: where I managed to put an equal sign between science and the usual "History", tell God for the sake of. Perhaps the “History” has something to do with really science, but the science of managing society - that's only in this I completely agree! There is no other option yet.
                  1. +3
                    5 January 2018 23: 11
                    Well, what a day today it is like this: definitely no one understands me! laughing
                    Vyacheslav, in your commentary on Alexander’s ironic remark that the adventures of Baron Munchausen are also a book, that is, history (puns: “history” as science and “history” as storytelling), you say that today's is textbooks of history "in essence are storytelling. In my commentary, I tried to say that “history” is a science, with its own methodology, tools and approaches. And the results that she gets should be separated from idle reasoning by the excessively zealous authors on the topic "but I know how it really was, because it seems to me that way."

                    Well, as for re-zombies - as far as I understand, our points of view coincide. wink
        2. +3
          5 January 2018 16: 07
          Quote: parusnik
          In a book edited by Prokopenko ....?

          Of course, this is a joke, Alexey (both mine and yours), but, let's look at Ukraine, history is being grinded, textbooks are being written, and from them, generations are learning, this is the answer to how much “history in chronicles” can be trusted ... so, when with all my respect for the Nexus, the story from the “textbooks” is not a story, but about Arkaim and the dolmens, Andrei-Nexus, I’ll answer: these are artifacts, not history, that is, “terra ingognita”. hi
    2. 0
      5 January 2018 17: 41
      Yes, actually, in addition to the expression "I give a tooth!" - nothing.
    3. +3
      5 January 2018 20: 33
      Yes, nothing ... It’s just that someone needs the peoples of Russia to quarrel on this ground .... At the same time, the Russians would forget their previous history, but get confused in the new one. In the end - NOTHING
  4. +18
    5 January 2018 07: 56
    The Russians invaded Russia as descendants of the Scythians, and before that having founded Ancient Greece and Rome?
    Eeeeeeeee, I don’t even know how to comment on this. If a respected author is joking, then this is trolling of the highest 100 level.
    By the way, one to one recalled the history of "ancient ukrov" which our "brothers" are now leading from the Sumerians.
    PS The meaning of creating such myths from a political point of view is best described by Pelevin in SNUFF. There it was meaningfully murderously accurate and malicious.
    1. +8
      5 January 2018 08: 54
      Not, but I liked it, Scythian-Siberians - Genghis Khan, Batu, Mamai. Yes
      1. +6
        5 January 2018 11: 35
        I’m saying, with a share of imagination, excellent fantasy will turn out. Or an althistory novel. smile
    2. +7
      5 January 2018 09: 31
      Quote: Odyssey
      By the way, one to one recalled the history of "ancient ukrov" which our "brothers" are now leading from the Sumerians.

      About ancient ukrov. It turns out they came to Russia from the East, because of the Volga. fool

      Last time - more 1000 comments. Spend so much time on this, take pity on yourself.
      1. +8
        5 January 2018 10: 04
        In the New Year holidays, attendance drops. What is left to do? Advertising must be rescued. The site is not a Soviet television show, "Obvious-Incredible."
    3. +9
      5 January 2018 10: 06
      Odysseus

      By the way, one to one recalled the history of "ancient ukrov" which our "brothers" are now leading from the Sumerians.
      ... This article makes similar impressions, we will wait for the continuation, it will probably be told there how the Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world dug Baikal, the Caspian, Aral Sea and fought with the ancient Ukrainians for the right to dig the Black Sea ... But alas, they lost the primacy to them , those were stronger ...
      1. +6
        5 January 2018 12: 56
        Lord, with you, Alexey! Our ancestors of Kopamsh were simply tired, so they gave ukram. "God bless you, dig! But Crimea is ours!"
        1. Cat
          +4
          5 January 2018 14: 51
          Didn’t they dig up Anton? feel
          Where is my shovel? ....... request
          1. +4
            5 January 2018 15: 52
            Do not rush, Vladislav, let the Sun clear the construction of the bridge. And then we know you, hot Ural guys! Haha Ural ridge from 12 thousand to a half dug? What a shame? And they shouted, shouted: “Why do we need such a runway! We have nothing to do on this Mars!” Now here we rent a spot in the steppes of the Kazakhs ... And we fly low.
            1. Cat
              +4
              5 January 2018 17: 52
              In the Urals, there is a saying about Mount Grace in N. Tagil - "there was a mountain high - it became a deep hole"! So we can do it. fellow
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. +4
        5 January 2018 17: 43
        No, there was a tender for the right to dig the Black Sea, Dolboslav.hu site us, Rusoarii lost to Ukraine, they gave a lower price.
        1. +4
          5 January 2018 19: 10
          Well, everything is as always, dumping, and then the dough was not enough. And there remained Russo-Aryan interest holders with the unfinished Sea of ​​Azov, and Asgardbank did not give a mortgage.
          1. +2
            6 January 2018 14: 26
            hmm ... in vain I studied geological and geographical, the origin of the Black Sea was not so fun. laughing
  5. +10
    5 January 2018 08: 22
    "And the speed of the slaughter is great ..." smile

    I wonder where in the author’s conception the history of the Turkic-speaking peoples of Siberia disappears in the second half of the 1 — the beginning of the 2 millennium?
    1. +6
      5 January 2018 09: 57
      So there were no Türks. “Turk” is from the Old Aryan “you are nimble”, it means that the old Russians lived in small stature, and they were called like that. Where could any Turks come from, if the whole world, all civilization belonged to the Aryan Slavs, and then the Vatican deceived everyone?
    2. +3
      5 January 2018 09: 58
      Quote: tasha
      .. where in the author’s concept the history of the Turkic-speaking peoples of Siberia disappears

      Are you sure that all of today's peoples living in Siberia have always been Turkic-speaking? What evidence do you have for that, or do not need them at all. For example, almost the whole of modern "Europe" (a term from the XNUMXth century) for many millennia, spoke the dialects of the Russian language (most still speak them, though in modern dialects). Yes, and interesting: what do you know about the origin of all these languages ​​of the Turkic language group? After all, the topic is interesting, and theories and studies of the linguists themselves already exist on this subject. Maybe you can still get acquainted with these works and in the end find out the kind (people, ethnic group) that founded this entire language group. I think that after this all your questions will disappear by themselves, in any case I hope.
      1. +4
        5 January 2018 10: 43
        Are you sure of the opposite? And what is your “for example” based on? Yes, the topic is interesting and, in contrast to other theories, has been sufficiently developed and supported by numerous sources and archaeological data ... I believe that you should familiarize yourself with these materials and then ask unnecessary questions .... wink
        1. +2
          5 January 2018 11: 23
          Quote: tasha
          And what is your “for example” based on?

          My "for example" is based on numerous data in the field of linguistics, toponymy, DNA of gynealogy, archeology, as well as quite numerous studies in these and other areas of science that are gaining strength. If interested, then I can throw something, for example in PM, if of course there is interest and the main desire for knowledge.
          1. +6
            5 January 2018 11: 53
            I am glad that you were able to get acquainted with the numerous data in the field of linguistics, toponymy, gynealogy, archeology and other fields of science. Now get acquainted with as many data that do not coincide with your ideas about the world. Temporarily aplomb the great historian in the closet, you get the thirst for knowledge - and go! Flip a coin .... wink
            1. +3
              5 January 2018 12: 03
              Quote: tasha
              Flip a coin ....

              Try to advise the same to yourself, by the way, also without aplomb, let me remind you: Science is, first and foremost, a struggle of opinions. Religion is another matter. Religion does not allow at least any deviations from the given religious attitudes. So: by all indications, even by its very name "Story" - there are more religious object. Read the comments, and see for yourself on your own. I think to prompt me especially not needed here.
              1. +5
                5 January 2018 12: 21
                winked It was you who actually got into my comment ... If you managed to master the materials you listed, then do not pour water. Write more specifically ... And then I'll click on your nose (virtually, of course) wink
                1. Cat
                  +2
                  5 January 2018 14: 54
                  It’s not “clicking on the nose doesn’t help", you must immediately with a shovel!
      2. +3
        5 January 2018 17: 46
        The ancient Turkic runic writing was heard, seen, not? Chinese annals? Also not? Mongoloidity, as it were, cannot get away from it anywhere. Activities of Kul-tegin, Bilge Kagan, Tonyukuk? Didn't you hear that too? Oh no no no!
    3. +4
      5 January 2018 10: 57
      And nowhere, it's all the Mongol spy Gumilyov came up with.
  6. +9
    5 January 2018 08: 30
    A beautiful picture about Kolovrat. The arrow pierced the right side of the chest. Death may have come from a wound to the pulmonary artery. True, then, a woman would "swim" in a pool of blood. But just as the artist painted, it's so beautifully simple. Credibility? Why, the artist sees so. So Samsonov does with history. Credibility? Why, Samsonov, sees so. Isn’t it prettier?
    1. +3
      5 January 2018 11: 11
      Oh, Doctor, only you don’t need all these horrors from the prosector forensic examination! Last time you didn’t let the author of Pulitzer get it, this time you’re depriving simple human joys, you don’t let Olivier finish eating.
      1. +3
        5 January 2018 12: 53
        What is natural is not ugly. I’ll keep silent about what happens during death. She would lie not only in bloodshed. Eat up, Olivier.
        1. +1
          5 January 2018 13: 33
          I’m actually talking about the "artist" and the author.
          1. +2
            5 January 2018 15: 13
            And that they are not people?
            1. +1
              5 January 2018 16: 58
              People like you and me. Only it is difficult for me to confuse with blood and other substances accompanying violent death. So what about my Olivier, not worth it.
              1. +2
                5 January 2018 17: 21
                Did I try to embarrass? It seems that my comment to which, you answered, was still not only about physiology, and I would say, not at all about it, in meaning.
                1. +1
                  5 January 2018 18: 06
                  Yes, and I originally tried to joke? Apparently we periodically equally unsuccessfully petrosyanim. Okay, remember?
                  1. +2
                    5 January 2018 18: 25
                    Naturally. In this thread, we definitely have nothing to share. This trash can only be discussed with humor.
    2. 0
      6 January 2018 14: 31
      Quote: avva2012
      True, then, a woman would "swim" in a pool of blood

      and the position of the arms and bent legs do not cause suspicion?
      Although such paintings are usually found fault solely on ammunition, weapons, horses, etc.
      1. +1
        6 January 2018 16: 05
        I was not going to give a lecture on this topic. The artist, in general, could have done easier by placing the deceased in the other direction. Then the arrow stuck out on the left side of the chest and did not raise any questions. The problem is, as I see, both in the author’s theory and in this picture, the artist thought exactly that he was drawing the "dead hawthorn with an enemy arrow in the heart."
  7. +4
    5 January 2018 08: 50
    "Russia-Russia, as a geopolitical reality, has always existed, and appeared before the very western project and civilization."
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Doesn't it seem like that? The Bible is from Samsonov. And, why, why not wave? Why Shakespeare alone suffered request
    1. +10
      5 January 2018 10: 53
      Doctor, in vain do you downplay the influence of delirium tremens on the fundamental works of modern luminaries from history. There is not only Shakespeare, here Homer has been erased. And who is Shakespeare? Recent studies by Russian historians and linguists convincingly prove the origin of this character from a small Estonian village near Tartu (aka the ancient and mighty Russian city of Yuryev). The poet’s nickname comes from the phrase "siks biir" in the translation of "six glasses of beer." And what he wrote in Middle English, so after three liters of dark unfiltered you still can’t write it. laughing
      1. +5
        5 January 2018 11: 06
        Anton, bravo! This is some kind of pirduha!
        1. +7
          5 January 2018 11: 42
          Come on! I'm really serious! The child reads "Twelfth Night" (the school asked for a vacation). An urgent need to select and slip the "Kolobok". This is pure Kolovrat! "And I left Subude! And I left Jaeba! And from you, Batu too .... ap! .... no luck ..."
          1. +5
            5 January 2018 12: 57
            Yeah. Russian batyr, Kolobok did not leave the Fox, Ysil, damn it is not a Jewish name! But still, the Masons and Miller were there.
            1. +2
              5 January 2018 14: 36
              Do not suffer, do not distort your dialect of Venedsky, Venya will not understand. Probably simpler - Chinese mercenary Lee Si Tsyn
            2. Cat
              +1
              5 January 2018 15: 01
              And how did the fairy tale begin dear remember? "I left my grandfather, I left my grandmother" !!!
              1. +2
                5 January 2018 15: 16
                The tale begins, like the hard films of XXX, the old man and the old woman searched for in bastards.
                1. +2
                  6 January 2018 14: 02
                  I remembered a joke
                  "-Cute, do you also like silly girlish love movies?
                  “Of course, only all of them are for some reason in German.”
                  1. +1
                    6 January 2018 16: 09
                    And then the Germans! belay Not only in history rummaged! laughing
            3. +4
              5 January 2018 20: 43
              Dear ...! I appeal to everyone ....! I've been laughing continuously for an hour .......... !!! Thanks a lot!
              1. +4
                5 January 2018 23: 27
                You are welcome! Although, we actually have not yet begun too much! So, warm up with an incomplete composition after the holidays. There is no Mikado, Marat (the largest specialist in Venetian) is not in the voice ...
            4. +3
              5 January 2018 22: 04
              Quote: avva2012
              Yeah. Russian batyr, Kolobok did not leave the Fox, Ysil, damn it is not a Jewish name! But still, the Masons and Miller were there.

              I didn’t leave the fox (siskin and k0) laughing
      2. +5
        5 January 2018 12: 58
        No, he is of Balkan origin (Shakespeare). His name was Spiro, and his nickname was Yeshek. Yeshek Spiro - changed to English. manners, that’s what happened Shakespeare. laughing laughing
        1. +6
          5 January 2018 13: 25
          So-so-so, Balkan, that is, Greek, that is - Homer, and Byron in Greece managed to make war. Homer, Shakespeare, Byron - one man! Hold on to Fomenko - we are going !!!
          1. +4
            5 January 2018 15: 08
            Not right, friend. In the Balkans, not only the Greeks live. We have already built the Balkans (Stara Planina) (because the highest point of the Balkans in Bulgaria is located), and the Greeks are still building Olympus (therefore, Olympus is lower). lol smile laughing
            1. +4
              5 January 2018 16: 15
              Yes, in general, we first poured the Ural Range up to 12000 meters, and then we dug a little. The cat will not let you lie.
            2. +1
              5 January 2018 22: 07
              Quote: alatanas
              Olympus is being completed

              I don’t understand, Ukrainians are resting? belay
              1. 0
                6 January 2018 14: 34
                Quote: SpnSr
                Ukrainians have a rest

                Yes, they also successfully Ukrainized Jesus, but there are no more authorities ... except that parallel worlds are also Ukrainians ... we also know how to change landscapes.
                The impression is that the general publishing house.
                1. +2
                  7 January 2018 00: 11
                  Quote: Antares
                  Quote: SpnSr
                  Ukrainians have a rest

                  Yes, they also successfully Ukrainized Jesus, but there are no more authorities ... except that parallel worlds are also Ukrainians ... we also know how to change landscapes.
                  The impression is that the general publishing house.

                  and if it’s rude, to cast aside several hundred thousand years, to discard the concepts of nationalities and races, then in the end, the population that was the ancestors of the modern population of this territory was directly involved in the development of civilization. maybe even it was a kind of rearguard of Batu, after he cut out the pro-Western population of Kiev, with nulands and the like popping there at that time laughing the rear is shorter laughing
                  and with confidence we can say that today's events are not the first time ... laughing
            3. +4
              6 January 2018 00: 37
              this is what .. here for example = samurai. it’s clear that this is distorted Russian, he’s cheers. that is, 1 screams cheers and crumbles everyone into a salad ...
        2. +6
          5 January 2018 14: 43
          The Bulgarians from the Bulgars, the Bulgars, are the Turks, and the Turks, as it turns out, are Siberian Russians. Everything is clear, Shakespeare drank vodka without snacking, wore pima and it remains to be understood whether he is a shark or an okala.
          1. +5
            5 January 2018 15: 13
            What makes you think that he was able to speak at all? There are no audio recordings, no transcripts, no witnesses, and researchers - they all lie! There is a version that Shakespeare came up with cinema, because - the Great Mute. Well, that’s the way it has taken root among the people .... But what, is it possible for X-rays, but not for Shakespeare!?!?
            1. +6
              5 January 2018 16: 39
              Mu-mu, part two? The adventures of Gerasim in foggy Albionis?
              1. +5
                5 January 2018 18: 12
                That's right, about how he drowned the Baskerville dog in the Thames.
                1. +4
                  5 January 2018 18: 29
                  And you! Shaw and Dr. Jekyll, is he too?
                  1. +1
                    5 January 2018 19: 19
                    I don’t know here, it’s for Mikado, according to Stevenson he is a specialist.
                    1. +1
                      5 January 2018 19: 59
                      And by the way, where is he?
                      1. +1
                        5 January 2018 23: 14
                        I have assumptions, but dwell on the prose of life. Caught the same sociopathic neighbor and now communicates with former colleagues.
                    2. +1
                      6 January 2018 08: 19
                      I hope, nevertheless, expired mayonnaise in the salad. Well, let them, his colleagues, let them rest.
                      1. +1
                        6 January 2018 15: 21
                        I hope, nevertheless, expired mayonnaise in the salad.

                        add something else to me besides the phrase "Good Doctor"? belay laughing mayonnaise took me only once, and it was at 17! Everything is organized, everything! wink drinks
                  2. +1
                    6 January 2018 15: 26
                    And you! Shaw and Dr. Jekyll, is he too?

                    I don’t know who Dr. Jekyll is, but after "expired mayonnaise"I’m sure who Mr. Edward Hyde is working as a Good Doctor in normal times! wink drinks
                    1. +2
                      6 January 2018 17: 06
                      Nikolay, I saved you from your former colleagues, and you laughing
                      1. +1
                        6 January 2018 23: 01
                        Thank you, expired mayonnaise is clearly better than a night in the fart. wink Yes, I have not met a peeing neighbor! request
                        no, neither one nor the other! drinks
                    2. +1
                      7 January 2018 04: 33
                      no, neither one nor the other!

                      Judging by the fact that you came, "all is well that ends well." We, in spite of the buns, are still worried about good people. Do not forget.
                      1. +2
                        7 January 2018 18: 52
                        I worry about you all too. soldier So as not to kill each other on the forum drinks and all - Good people! drinks if Anton sees, he will remember Mark Krysoboy ... wink
                    3. +1
                      8 January 2018 07: 16
                      But isn’t Mark the Krysoboi a good man? Welcome worked.
          2. +3
            5 January 2018 18: 40
            Most likely, he was joked and then hiccuped (after vodka, without biting)! lol
            1. +2
              5 January 2018 19: 15
              Ekary Babai, however, it turns out wassat
              1. +3
                6 January 2018 00: 40
                all right. that is, a translation of the modern-drunk vodka feeder women ...
                1. +1
                  6 January 2018 08: 21
                  There is another translation from Farsi / Russian, this is an elderly man of non-traditional orientation, but I like yours more.
                  1. +2
                    6 January 2018 15: 17
                    I liked both! laughed! good drinks
                    1. +1
                      6 January 2018 16: 12
                      Finally! Mayonnaise or colleagues?
                      1. +2
                        6 January 2018 23: 06
                        joker, appreciated! good Babai liked, your joint translation drinks
                    2. +1
                      7 January 2018 11: 49
                      - Yekarn babai! I shouted hastily.
                      - Oh my god, who is it? The thin fingers of the moon squeezed my shoulder so that I howled softly. A mercenary, to put it mildly, is not cowardly. To bring it to such a degree of fright - we must try ... The most impressionable devils echoed faintly, the rhythmic bone knock of the nape of the head on the granite floor diluted the impending silence in the hall. Pale Lucifer squeezed into the back of his chair and frantically grabbed his mouth with air, like a pot-bellied crucian thrown to the shore. I assure you - having fallen from the muzzle, he even turned pale, on which the Lord sat. In this world, any drunken ravings could become a egregious reality. On which the cunning landgraves play ... Ekar babay turned out to be a peppy old man with Asian features, two meters tall, completely naked, with such ... manly dignity ... Narrow eyes widened with admiration - the grandfather saw how many men were gathered here in his honor. - Oh, Allahu akbar! Wai Dod! Tsigel, Tsigel, ah lu-lu! Gulchat! - With these words, the babai grabbed the nearest feature, in the blink of an eye tore off black erotic armor from him and, snubbing his tongue gingerly, expertly unfurled the poor man with his back. - I'm not Gulchatai! - the unhappy victim of violence screamed desperately. - Bazaar Kiryakmi! - the grandfather shouted sternly, playfully slapping the devil on the furry ass. - Sim balalam - karachun, ax head! “And, without stopping the evil deed, he began to quickly distribute the names to the following candidates: - Zuhra, Zeynab, Leyla, Zulfiya ...- Skiminok ...” the Lord of Hell whined in a thin voice. “Where did you dig out the name of this pervert demon?” Take it away! “Wah, wah, wah ...” The Ekater Babai finally turned a touching look on Lucifer:
                      - Look, Gulchatai ... - What did he say ?! - Muscular Luci hid behind the throne. “That he really liked you,” I kindly explained. “He's even ready to appoint you as his beloved wife.” So to speak, Gulchatai out of turn! Meanwhile, the preoccupied old man had "spudded" the third victim, reliably holding five more especially attractive tails. Others, throwing weapons, in a random crowd rushed through all the doors, fleeing from a voluptuous scream: - Ay lu-lu !!! SWORD WITHOUT NAME III. Andrey BELYANIN
  8. +2
    5 January 2018 08: 54
    Somehow there is a problem with arithmetic: Kolovrat has 1700 soldiers and Batu has 100 - 150 thousand and many regiments fell. But in general, a very interesting article. At least explaining something like this after the 300-year-old so-called yoke in Russians, there are no Mongolian genes. The idea that for 300 years the Mongol warriors kept their blood clean and were subject to a vow of abstinence does not hold water.
    1. +6
      5 January 2018 11: 40
      As I understand the history of anthropological research of that time — the majority of the Horde that came to Russia were Turkic-speaking peoples, and their phenotype from the Mongolian is significantly different. Roughly speaking these it is easy to confuse the Türks with the inhabitants of the South of Russia; they have no Mongoloid features at all. But the commanders and the elite of the Horde were just from the Mongoloids. In other words, the Türks constantly contacted the population, but the Mongoloids only occasionally.
      1. +5
        5 January 2018 11: 52
        SchA, wait, the "operator" will catch up. He’ll decompose everyone into haplogroups. Deep into history, up to and including trilobites.
      2. +2
        5 January 2018 12: 26
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        .. the majority of the Horde that came to Russia were Turkic-speaking peoples, and their phenotype from the Mongolian is significantly different. Roughly speaking, these Turks are easily confused with the inhabitants of the South of Russia; they have no Mongoloid features at all. But the commanders and the elite of the Horde were just from the Mongoloids.

        Where else is this information from? So far, all documents found and researched say that they are written in Russian! And why did the Turkic peoples need this? By the way: where does the info about the "elite of the Horde .. from the Mongoloids" come from - where are the relevant studies? An autopsy of the mogidnik in 1941 showed just the "European" (that is, western) type of skull. Where are any found evidence of the Mongoloid elite of the horde? I don’t even ask for a link, just any similar message, in any form.
        1. +4
          5 January 2018 13: 33
          Regarding the Turks:
          The army that conquered Russia was led by the Mongols, but its ranks consisted mainly of people of Turkic origin, commonly known under the name of the Tatars. ”
          http://lib.ru/HISTORY/PAJPS/oldrussia.txt
          Why did the Turks need this? Yes, because they, like the vassals of the Mongols participated in their campaigns.
          Here is an analysis of the burial of noble Mongols in the Voronezh region:
          https://kitabhona.org.ua/lib_arh/olenkolodec.html
          Quote: venaya
          All documents found and investigated say that they are written in Russian!

          What are you saying? Have you ever been to a museum? If not, here is a link to the photo materials of the museum dedicated to that era:
          https://gosh100.livejournal.com/69452.html
          Take the time to look at the Mongolian documentswritten in arabic language!
          1. +1
            5 January 2018 17: 09
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            Why was it needed to the Turks? Yes because they are like vassals of the mongols participated in their campaigns.

            Actually, I really don’t know such an ethnic group as the "Türks", maybe we are talking about the Turkic-speaking peoples? By the way, it’s funny: the Mongols themselves appeared in the XNUMXth century, although already in the XNUMXth they came up with “their own” script. And what did they need to write in Arabic - is that something in Russia? I understand: to distinguish people from the "Mughal Empire" and "Mongols" of the XNUMXth century, it is still much more difficult for many. By the way, indeed, experts write that all, without exception, preserved documents of that time (not fake) were written only in Russian. Can't you find it? So the number of tales, I see, everything is increasing and increasing, continue in the same spirit, entertain people and local trolls.
            1. 0
              6 January 2018 06: 43
              You write nonsense about the Mongols, but otherwise well done.
      3. +2
        5 January 2018 13: 00
        The Yakuts are Mongoloids, and the language is of the Turkic group!
        1. +4
          5 January 2018 14: 44
          In general, like this, the Turks most likely looked when the Yakuts had to migrate north.
        2. +2
          5 January 2018 17: 50
          AND? You are a racial type, Mongoloid, confused with linguistic affiliation, Turkic. The Chinese are also Mongoloids, this does not mean that they should speak Mongolian.
    2. +2
      5 January 2018 12: 35
      Quote: Seraphimamur
      Kolovrat had 1700 soldiers and Batu 100 - 150 thousand and many regiments fell.

      There are warriors - and warriors. There are elite troops, and there are auxiliary forces - "cannon fodder". Google the losses in the Marathon battle, during the Montjizor or, more characteristic, in the battle of Visby (there the weapons and armor were generally of the same class, the level of training was different). Through the auxiliary troops of the Mongols, Kolovrat passed like a knife through butter - but when Batu pulled up the elite troops, the final battle came ...
      1. 0
        6 January 2018 06: 44
        Nothing came, he beat them all, then his squad simply searched for death while standing under the fire of siege weapons.
    3. 0
      6 January 2018 14: 36
      Quote: Seraphimamur
      The idea that for 300 years the Mongol warriors kept their blood clean and were subject to a vow of abstinence does not hold water.

      one of the two was either terrible, or a little vodka was given out.
      Or maybe they were smart - they stored the code!
  9. +8
    5 January 2018 09: 43
    Alexander, I beg you: give up drugs.
  10. +6
    5 January 2018 09: 51
    The only practical use of the article is to push each other pluses for comments.
    1. +8
      5 January 2018 11: 53
      Well, why? You can fast and laugh.
      1. +9
        5 January 2018 12: 34
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Well, why? You can fast and laugh.

        Sorry, but this moronity, no fun, just getting tired. From broom-like passages, ears are curled up.
        1. +3
          5 January 2018 16: 23
          Do you read them ??????? !!!!
      2. +4
        5 January 2018 20: 48
        So I have not neighing for a long time ...! Like a horse ...!
    2. +7
      5 January 2018 14: 10
      The article is another version of "affairs of bygone days." It is the version, but it is served as genuine events. The works of thousands of historians and archaeologists are refuted on several sheets of text. Well, and how to relate to this? It is very similar to the publication of supposedly scientific work necessary to defend a Ph.D. thesis on history. Namely - candidate.
      The problem is that, indeed, our history was emasculated, in our history there are many "white spots". And it is human nature to be interested in where he comes from and who his ancestors are. Each person sooner or later asks parents - where did I come from? And, as everyone knows, there are a lot of answers - both stork and cabbage ... That's how the “white spots” in history fill approximately.
      But there will be many, many more finds and discoveries. The technical capabilities of archaeological research are constantly being improved. Therefore, I will say that the farther into the future, the clearer the past. In science, vanity is inappropriate.
      Here are just to cross out the works of people who have devoted their lives to the study of the history of the country, as it were softer to say, is not ethical. Any scientist carefully studies the materials of his predecessors. And if his own research leads to other conclusions, then only on the basis of facts. Not versions. Otherwise, he is not a scientist, but a journalist.
      1. +3
        5 January 2018 20: 53
        Seriously, in my opinion this is subversive work ... The old story should, by some plan, disappear, but there will be problems with the new one. Since we will immediately find a bunch of people who want to write it in their own way, and it will have to be considered the only true one. As a result, there will NOT be any new story in this wild mess. Everything, the people were left without history. So - WITHOUT FUTURE
    3. +1
      6 January 2018 14: 37
      Quote: forty-eighth
      The only practical use of the article

      I haven’t reached the end yet. The pre-scientific debate ended long ago, but at least it became fun.
      1. +1
        6 January 2018 20: 08
        Is it fun for you? So we are doing the right thing here. Wangelsingue as far as possible. Good company. Join now!
  11. +4
    5 January 2018 09: 53
    The official history does not explain much of what, therefore such articles appear. Yes, a lot of speculation, no links to sources, but what to do? Official historians cannot say anything.
    The summer reckoning in Russia led to the west under Peter 1, and began to count the 1700 year, and before that it was 5700, where did 4000 go, what was there? In response, silence.
    At one time in the Caucasus in Karachay-Cherkessia was on the ruins of monasteries 2-4 centuries of our era. Is something written in the "school" story about this? You won't find a trace.
    There are many unanswered questions, and this gives reason to conduct an audit of the whole story.
    1. +2
      5 January 2018 11: 01
      Quote: glory1974
      This calculation in Russia led to the west under Peter 1, and began to count 1700, and before that it was the 5700th, where did 4000 years go, what was there? In response, silence.

      Yeah Do you seriously distinguish between "from the creation of the world" and "from the Nativity of Christ" or are you just pretending?
      1. +2
        5 January 2018 17: 26
        Do you seriously distinguish between "from the creation of the world" and "from the Nativity of Christ" or are you just pretending?

        I say that Russia did not exist for a thousand years, as is now believed from the beginning of the adoption of Orthodoxy, but much earlier.
        If historians still agree with pre-Petrine dating. Well, like you, say that it’s just a different account. So what about other dates, for example 13 of thousands of years from the great cold snap? Or 100 000 years from the great migration? So then the state existed and an official countdown was conducted.
        By the way, the score was not “from the creation of the world”, but from “the creation of the world in a star temple,” if you know what the difference is.
        1. Cat
          +5
          5 January 2018 18: 04
          Glory dear. You are mine, go to the bathhouse, drink some kvask. Then, on the left, wait for the bible, and on the right, the Tale of Bygone Years, and compare the first three pages! If you are not a fan of "Darwinism" and are ready for the fact that in both books there are no words about dinosaurs, then the truth will find you !!!
          R.s. remove physics and astronomy textbooks too. By the way, the solar system is about five billion years old.
          1. +2
            5 January 2018 18: 26
            A bathhouse with kvass, why?
            1. Cat
              +6
              5 January 2018 18: 58
              Evaporate nonsense with a wreath, clean the head, collect thoughts into a fist. Three pages of text from one source, plus three from another. A total of six! They must be read, compared, comprehended! God forbid, after "enlightenment" desire in the loop "arises"? If so, you don’t have to wash it .....
              1. +3
                5 January 2018 20: 17
                Practical of course, but useless. Pearl of the cervical vertebrae is accompanied by involuntary relaxation of the sphincters. So you still have to wash.
                1. +1
                  6 January 2018 15: 15
                  Practical of course, but useless. Pearl of the cervical vertebrae is accompanied by involuntary relaxation of the sphincters. So you still have to wash.

                  I read somewhere (I don’t remember where, in some English detective story) that in post-war England, the sentenced before execution was offered the services of the Good Doctor, or, more precisely, an enema.wink so that, so to speak, "do" relax, and not "during" request
                  1. +2
                    6 January 2018 19: 59
                    I don’t know about this. But the executioner’s money from the sentenced’s relatives, for a correctly tied and placed knot — this was practiced everywhere.
                    1. +1
                      6 January 2018 23: 03
                      But the executioner’s money from the sentenced’s relatives, for a correctly tied and placed knot — this was practiced everywhere.

                      that is yes. In general, the executioner - you can write separate articles about him. One family of Sanson is worth. Really, people with "disabled extra feelings at the time of action." They just did their job!
          2. +2
            6 January 2018 09: 38
            go to the bathhouse, drink kvask. Then, on the left, wait for the bible, and on the right, the Tale of Bygone Years, and compare the first three pages!

            Dear Kotische. I’ll go to the bathhouse and drink some kvask. But.
            1. Many scholars still do not perceive the Bible as a historical document, as well as the Tale of Bygone Years. If I follow your advice, compare them and unsubscribe on the site, then I will immediately be criticized and obstructed. And many will also suggest that I compare for example "Wolfhound" and "Game of Thrones." Why not? In the USA they study the Game of Thrones at colleges, what is not a document?
            2. There are things that do not fit into the generally accepted history. Including some artifacts, documents, etc. I want historians to explain them, and not pretend that they are not.
            3. Why should we believe in one historian scientist, candidate and doctor of science, and not in the same other scientist, the same doctor of science?
            R.s. If we also begin to discuss the origin of the universe, we will get confused. To begin to understand at least what was happening on our planet.
            1. Cat
              +4
              6 January 2018 19: 43
              Dear Vyacheslav !!!
              In principle, the conclusions are fixed but somehow from another side.
              The Bible and Tale of Bygone Years for true historians as books are priceless! So for mentioning them in a sou or at the department obstruction does not threaten you. The trouble is different, namely, what kind of texts are these, more precisely the first pages of the works under consideration. History of the creation of the world! Given the age of the first, the beginning of the story is simply a tracing-paper of the Bible.
              Now a riddle? If to our days as a source comes the story of the past years and the Koran with the Torah, and the Bible has sunk in years? What do we get? The pundit sincerely concludes that the author of the Tale was either an orthodox mullah or a God-chosen rabbi. Since the Quran and the Torah also begin with the creation of the world! You think the Tale is lonely, I’m satisfying you, almost 50% of the books of the Middle Ages began with the “creation” tracing-paper! So alas, your attempt to find the difference between the obvious (calculating time since the creation of the world) and tracing paper for the obvious (calculating time from the birth of Christ) in total gives a zilch. The Greeks have been counting since the First Olympics, the Romans from the year Rome was founded, etc. so taking into account that over the centuries bloopers and errors accumulated, then for "pseudo-historians" it is a basket with golden eggs! Do you want a false or pseudoscientific version of "padmanuli" in the easy!
              The Western brothers didn’t spoil the descendants of the Great Russian matrix, slipping us a false history of the Russian land. Yes, yes, my brethren, I TALK ABOUT THE TEMPORARY YEARS, all these are the machinations of the Vatican and papal henchmen. Compare the main events of the Russian Land and the Annals of Byzantium. We saw - everywhere the difference is 8 years! And then blah blah ........
              So, my dear friend, “false theories” are born! Only shh .. this regularity was noticed a century ago by a Russian scientist Shakhovsky. He sow the law and explained. But why should Sivkov read Shakhovsky, Yanov, Rybakov, Egorov, etc. Alas, alas. We grab particular and away we go.
              Now seriously. The timeline is complicated and by 1000 even in Christian countries the “tsifiri” didn’t beat in such a way that “the clock was checked against papal bulls” or Ecumenical Councils.
              And now about the special value of the Tale, the tale of the creation of the world, the resettlement of peoples, and actually the TEST from where the Russian land is and went (at least in three editions + the census takers) ends with the annals themselves. So the annals are especially priceless so they give at least a sequence of events. Although the dates are "trouble." but here are the costs of the times, the rumor reached the monk that King Batu died and he wrote down. And the fact that he had already been walking for two years or had already been recorded earlier by the previous chronicler .... So, analysis and analysis again.
              Now about the scientific fraternity. The most famous scientific puncture on the conscience of Academician Rybakov with his 1500th anniversary of Kiev, just on the eve of the 60th anniversary of the Great October Revolution. So I said above "analysis and analysis again!"
              Now, the conclusions: scientist to scientist discord. It is easy to throw a refutation from the rostrum, it is harder to prove it. So we will break the spears in search of truth, dig a fellow, read the Bible, the Koran and the story. But history does not like big words. An example is Tour Heirdal, who for the sake of his truth gave half a century of life!
              Well, the last Sivkov does not have a degree in history. So you want glory, my dear Vyacheslav, three pages of the Bible + three pages of the Tale of Bygone Years and your Sivkov laurels.
              Or a quiet, painstaking analysis and result. Then another quarter century and the result will be reckoned with. Yes, yes, for a true scientist, the main thing is a quiet zilch, and a modest "is considered" - that is, your working version is recognized by the absolute majority of other scientists!
              Regards, Your Cat!
        2. +4
          5 January 2018 18: 34
          Yes, roof-Russes riding on mammoths and all that jazz. The court retires and does not return.
          Leaving the "star temple" to Asov and other Blavatsky, I allow myself to note that the dates of the "creation of the world" in Christianity are at least two. So past the point, dear ...
        3. +1
          6 January 2018 06: 47
          The path from the bathhouse to the point they took only 5 comments.
  12. +6
    5 January 2018 09: 54
    It turns out there was not any TMI? To hell with the annals. In the 21st century, we know better what was and what was not)
    1. +2
      5 January 2018 10: 13
      Quote: 452336
      .. wasn’t any TMI? To hell with the annals. In the 21st century, we know better what was and what was not

      Today, in the XNUMXst century, we have not only developed science, but also developed information technology - this is the main reason. By the way, give a reference about TMI in the annals, otherwise modern scientists can’t find it in these very annals of the time. Please enlighten these "ignoramuses", please provide them with something that no one has ever seen with their own eyes, I think that in this case, at least, your fame will be guaranteed, which may be significant.
  13. +9
    5 January 2018 10: 16
    What a wonderful coven !!!
    1. +2
      6 January 2018 06: 48
      yeah, flocked on one or two
  14. +12
    5 January 2018 10: 32
    Comrades, I respect the opinions of others (I’ve been brought up this way), but as they say: “Plato is my friend, but the truth is more expensive,” but let me express my opinion.
    Kamrad Nexus, "bit by bit restoring our history" with this I agree. Andrei Yuryevich figuratively compared the story with a kaleidoscope (I’m already an adult, but I willingly twisted the kaleidoscope a couple of years ago) and here I agree 100%. ".... for example, tell Miller, with whom Lomonosov fought all his life, it's a pity that history A German wrote Russia, but keep in mind both Miller, and Lomonosov and Tatishchev relied on the same sources.
    Dear author, our story was falsified at the direction of the pope. In principle, this is possible, but if you carefully look at the history of religion and think it is doubtful. It turns out that Catholic scouts have infiltrated Orthodox monasteries, strangle Russian scribes, otherwise how can they falsify chronicles EVERYWHERE?
    Rurikovich, you say: “adherents of academics and school books,” and let me ask you: SOVIET HISTORIANS ALSO WORKED ON THE VATICAN?
    If the author or one of his pockets has alternative annals, then: “DOCUMENTS TO A STUDIO !!” But keep in mind this source must be carefully checked, otherwise ... Remember, during the Union there was a musical-humorous program: “Zucchini 13 chairs” and there one character all wrote the novel "Hares", and since no one needs his nonsense, he wrote it down on clay tablets and buried it in the garden, but the professor found it. I remembered it because to cheer comrades
    1. +3
      5 January 2018 10: 48
      Quote: Monarchist
      SOVIET HISTORIANS ALSO WORKED ON THE VATICAN?

      Why not? Recall Academician A.M. Pokrovsky. For example, too Academician E.V. Tarle did not hate, he despised Pokrovsky! Does this surprise you? All revolutions (as well as shifts of monarchist dynasties) are financed and managed from about one collective center, in which the role of the Vatican is simply not possible to overestimate - it is a religiously ideological center. The fact that we have introduced a version of Abrahamic Greek Orthodox Christianity, which is slightly different from the Roman Catholic version, does little to change. I think that it’s just worth realizing, then many, very many questions will disappear by themselves. By the way:
      Quote: Monarchist
      If the author or one of the pockets has alternative annals, then: " STUDIO DOCUMENTS!!"

      This is what happens: Chronicles and alternative chronicles are no longer disputable documents? Let me ask - in what particular chronicles did you find references to TMI, and why no one has ever found this before you? By the way, modern science is able to use more reliable data than some, it is not clear for what purpose the written annals, especially since the originals of those years simply did not survive. Consider - science and research methods of the past are moving forward, as if it was not pleasant for anyone. Please note that today we live in the XNUMXst century, it’s worth at least remembering this.
      1. +4
        5 January 2018 20: 58
        Quote: venaya
        All revolutions (as well as shifts of monarchist dynasties) are financed and managed from about one collective center

        Venya! Here you are just at this collective center and work .... Your subversive work .....
        1. +2
          6 January 2018 06: 49
          Someone did not see the calls.
  15. +4
    5 January 2018 10: 36
    And that our ancestors were so petty? "Mongols" invited the princes to share with them, paying tithing, but they chose to die. Here we have 13% calculated from the salary, and how much the state is pulling from legal entities and entrepreneurs ..... and no one goes to the barricades. The horde and then according to the yasses of Genghis Khan from Russia took a tribute of 10% and Russia rose. With such prices, economically “Igo” is good or bad?
    1. +4
      5 January 2018 11: 31
      Do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs. Tax and tribute are different concepts and there is nothing to combine them into one. You will find the difference between these concepts yourself. And before writing a comment, you should first understand this.
    2. +1
      6 January 2018 00: 46
      so the princes, in addition to paying the Tatars and themselves taxed. Plus, do not forget church tithes. By the way, the church was released from payments to the Tatars. So I also had to pay for them ..
    3. 0
      6 January 2018 14: 41
      Quote: Seraphimamur
      Here we have 13% calculated from the salary, and how much the state is pulling from legal entities and entrepreneurs ..... and no one goes to the barricades.

      It’s not the locals who come and they say, give me a tenth, but you still haven’t paid the local ...
      True author says? that local people didn’t come ... maybe a new type of tax? "Not local"
  16. +12
    5 January 2018 10: 52
    I read the article and some comments and realized that the legend of digging the Black Sea by ukrami has a right to exist. And it was the ancient Ukrainians who were the first superethnos. And other super-ethnoses have already come from him. This is the latest information from the Vatican library stolen by Ukrainian hackers.
    1. +10
      5 January 2018 11: 32
      If memory serves, the author used to rewrite history in the Masonic center located in London. It is unclear whether it is competitors or simply changed the address.
      1. +5
        5 January 2018 12: 08
        Oh, Marat, the special services accounting is so dark that even I and Shpakovsky can’t figure out who owes what to anyone. Either he is a Mossad, or to me is an Intelligent Service. In any case, I must remain in the black, otherwise they will not let me into Israel, they simply will not understand. laughing
      2. +2
        6 January 2018 12: 09
        Strange .... There were allegations that the center of the "Masonic conspiracy" is located on Mount Zion ?! Or did they move out of there? lol
        1. +2
          6 January 2018 18: 03
          The author has not yet written about Mount Zion, but we will probably still hear new revelations from A. Samsonov. You are probably here recently, so I will give advice never engage in a polemic with Benjamin. Do you know how to join r ...
          1. +1
            6 January 2018 22: 33
            Yes, you're right, only half a year here. I'll keep it on mind.
      3. +1
        6 January 2018 14: 43
        Quote: mar4047083
        competitors or just changed the address.

        competition of two / three business entities.
        There are still branches off the planet.
    2. +5
      5 January 2018 14: 05
      The funny thing is that the author probably does not imagine how close he came to the "works" of some American colleagues in his Russoglobalist opuses. Those in all seriousness claim the genocide of North American Indians by Russian settlers.
    3. +1
      6 January 2018 13: 08
      To this they can answer you about the apparent insanity of the supporters of ancient ukrov and delusional their arguments. But they about 40 thousand-year-old Rus are absolutely right)))) I would advise them to go even further in the jurisdiction of this pedigree. For example, keep the pedigree of the Russ from reptilians, from which they evolved))). Unlike everyone else with their evolution of primates. So, in a couple of minutes, I extended the history of the superethnos by a couple of tens of millions of years))) By the way, this theory reminded me not only of modern Ukraine, but also of Germany of the thirties, with its Aryan and Nordic hops, the theory of universal cold and hollow earth inside of which their theories all live)))
  17. +6
    5 January 2018 10: 59
    From the foregoing, I understood - Genghis Khan, Jochi, Batu - were. Only they are fake.
    1. +6
      5 January 2018 11: 24
      Of course, Disney came up with them, long before Mickey Mouse.
    2. +6
      5 January 2018 12: 39
      Quote from Korsar4
      Genghis Khan, Jochi, Batu - were. Only they are fake.


      Yeah, like in "Ivan Vasilievich":
      "Kolovrat rebelled! He says Batu is not real!"
      1. Cat
        +4
        5 January 2018 15: 07
        Well, you comrades in general ........, where will we find you something real?
        1. +2
          5 January 2018 19: 11
          Just replace the novels of V. Yang with the singer of the Slavic-Mongol yoke. Only it is not clear what to rely on.

          However, in this opus Rashid ad Din was already mentioned.
  18. +8
    5 January 2018 11: 06
    This is horrible, you have to leave the site.
    1. +11
      5 January 2018 12: 42
      How is it possible? Well this is such a rare case in psychiatric practice - to observe the dynamics of transient progressive schizophrenia, which has an epidemiological character.
      1. +3
        5 January 2018 12: 44
        Far from fleeting ...
      2. Cat
        +5
        5 January 2018 18: 11
        Anton Doctor didn’t bite you? And then there’s also a little diagnosis! + Latin recipes in illegible handwriting!
        The main thing is to treat them only with purgen. So that in your slippers you yourself "crap"!
        1. +4
          5 January 2018 18: 38
          If you are about me, then I do not bite feel , and there are all vaccinations.
          1. Cat
            +2
            5 January 2018 19: 11
            I know you will cut off the doctors first ...........
            Below Anton is complaining about you Vyacheslav Olegovich! An epidemic or an epidemic, can a rotovirus infection? But the fact, the diagnosis .... Anton is mucous!
            If I offended you, I sincerely apologize. hi
            Ready to suffer punishment, except ...... Well, you understand "March" all that!
            Damn again suffered ...
            Doctor, but seriously in your practice with manic depressive psychosis if Fomenko-Sivkov & Co. gets caught, you will first cut or think and then cut. I apologize for the question, today I just had a desire to beat them. I know what is bad, but is there a desire?
            1. +4
              5 January 2018 20: 17
              The problem, in my opinion, is not a medical one. This is another call from the other side. Difficult, we are all an option for our partners. Look, how many years have been spent on the anti-Soviet forces and money, and our people, all yearning for the Soviet Union. Here's what to do with us? And let's, we will try them with another dust, partners think. Let us take the Great Russian pride to them, we will make the Aryans out of them so that they look down upon all non-Russians there. They lived side by side with other nationalities, had children together, defended their homeland, sometimes quarreled, but then reconciled again. But, that’s all, it was because they didn’t know that the roots were Hyperborean and their nation had more than forty centuries. Here they learn about it and how great pride will leap into them and they will begin to measure the skulls, and to look for a pure halogen group in the analyzes. And then, take them warm, because brother will go to brother and father to son.
              Such a story is obtained. So it’s not a medical one, it’s a problem, but it’s entirely a security service, federal, if any.
            2. +2
              5 January 2018 22: 07
              The doctor will not cut them, because the doctor. Call a team from the appropriate institution. There they will be sedated and they will continue to dream. But behind the scenes, "in yourself."
        2. +4
          5 January 2018 18: 51
          Bite, just yesterday and bit, "on the tongue" made a clinical blood test, branded an infected latent traitor, promised a military field tribunal. In anticipation of a commandant platoon, I write in gloves and a gauze bandage so that you do not infect.
          1. +2
            5 January 2018 19: 27
            Well, e, May, I’m getting some kind of awkwardness. Rather, undead. Bite you for everything? Pah-pah, what kind of fantasy ?! I, you’re not here, you understand! Yes, and based on the profession, in vain, you are waiting for the team. "03" is the maximum. 100 grams for the prevention of all infections and in the bed for his wife until seven sweats come down to the site without a foot!
            1. +3
              5 January 2018 21: 04
              Do you see yourself in the mirror? Cast a shadow? Talk about alcohol calmly? Cats do not shy away from you? So, everything is fine. And 03 came to me a month and a half ago. 01 yesterday in the yard hanging out. 04 does not shine, because there is no gas. Remains 02. So the circle closed.
              1. 0
                7 January 2018 05: 30
                As for the mirror, I'm not sure, for bald, but what else is there to look acre hairstyles? With shadow problem, dusk on the street. Ah, I don’t bite vodka with garlic, that's for sure! belay belay Doesn’t you know Van Helsing?
    2. Cat
      +5
      5 January 2018 18: 18
      Quote: Cartalon
      This is horrible, you have to leave the site.

      Guys - you can’t give up, if we give slack then these friends of the “hamsters” will turn our story into something .....
      We already took steps in the 90s that cannot be called "far-sighted." In recent years, it seems to have changed their minds, and here what we get in the exhaust is “heroic fantasy”! And we need it!
      So Michal tail gun, RUSSIANS DO NOT GIVE UP !!!
  19. +4
    5 January 2018 11: 08
    Quote: venaya

    Please enlighten these "ignoramuses", please provide them with something that no one has ever seen with their own eyes, I think that in this case, at least you will be guaranteed fame, possibly something that will fall, significant.


    Yes Easy. The battle of Kalka in 1223, the invasion in 1237, the distribution of labels for reigning in Sarai, the Basques, standing on the Ugra. It was or wasn’t. Or lie?
    1. +13
      5 January 2018 11: 22
      Be careful, dear! Contacting this commentator, you run the risk of giving a lecture of thousands on five printed characters on how the ancient Wends (of which he is a descendant) Rome founded.
    2. +4
      5 January 2018 11: 32
      Quote: 452336
      The Battle of Kalka in 1223, the invasion in 1237, the distribution of labels for reigning in Sarai, the Basques, standing on the Ugra

      And where did you manage to see "Igo", and even "Tatar", and even "Mongol". After all, the term “Igo” appears in written sources a century after its “official”, “Tatars” - appear even later, “Mongols” - generally in the 1817th year. Where you managed to find TMI itself in the primary sources, no one wrote about it then, but did not even think to write, because there were no such terms in Russia. Try to be more careful in describing events and using terms.
      1. +7
        5 January 2018 12: 42
        And the "Woeful Song of the Ruin of the Hungarian Aorolism by the Tatars" was also invented in the Vatican to "circumcise the history of the Slavic-Russians"?
        PS By the way, the fans of all this asovschina for some reason always differ in narrow-minded bestial Nazism. And why so? ..
        1. +2
          5 January 2018 13: 04
          Quote: Fedorovich
          For some reason, admirers of all this asovism are always distinguished by narrow-minded bestial Nazism.

          An interesting comment, this is me about: "narrow-minded", "bestial" and "Nazism". It is significant that all these three definitions apply specifically to people with a highly developed inferiority complex. What “inferiority complex” were you able to find in people deeply interested in their real past, and not a “history” story written by strangers? Try to nevertheless more accurately determine the fundamental concepts and try not to translate the arrows from a sore head to a healthy one!
          1. +7
            5 January 2018 13: 47
            Well, if a person begins to ascribe to his country some fantastic and absolutely ridiculous "story" - he, apparently, suffers from an inferiority complex, being sure. that in the real history of the country there is nothing to be proud of.
            1. +8
              5 January 2018 14: 59
              What two countries prove, 30's Germany and modern Ukraine. Neither the history of the state was there or there. For example, Germany. This is for us, a German, this is a German, and for them, there is a Bavarian, a Saxon, etc. Moreover, the relations between different residents of the German region are, to put it mildly, not cloudless. Somehow I became interested in the award system of the Third Reich. It turned out that there were imperial awards, the cat was crying, but mostly "regional". Such a salyanka, starting with the absence of a single nation, is not suitable for expansion. A nationwide idea was required. This was the legend of the ancient Aryans. Ukraine. Well, everything is clear here. Statehood since 1991 of the year ...
              Russia. That’s why a fictional story is not clear to us.
              1. +1
                5 January 2018 17: 27
                Quote: avva2012
                two countries, Germany of the 30s and Ukraine modern. Neither the history of the state was there or there. .. Russia. That’s why a fictional story is not clear to us.

                Here I am about the same. Why invent all kinds of fake "Stories", is it not better to just figure out that today it already has enough evidence of a really scientific sense. And then how it turns out: that "Ukraine", that Germany "- that one. That the other is only essentially the outskirts of Ancient Russia (there were other names that did not change the essence), hence the" need ", or rather the desire to come up with something , and of course, to your advantage. So no more fake "Stories" are needed, you just need to collect what is already there and from here draw quite acceptable conclusions.
                1. +4
                  5 January 2018 17: 57
                  As you have, everything is twisted! After all, Germany and Ukraine are given, by me, as confirmation of the thesis that they are political losers at the moment when they began to confuse history with mysticism. Russia, a state with a history that few modern countries have. That's right, Third Rome. Why come up with? Mysticism and fantasy, yes, like literature, has a right to exist. But it is impossible to put V. Solovyov and N. Perumov in the same row.
                  1. +1
                    5 January 2018 18: 28
                    Quote: avva2012
                    After all, Germany and Ukraine are given, as I confirm the thesis that they are political losers .. Russia, a state with such a history, which few modern countries have. .. Why come up with?

                    I constantly talk about this and say that there is nothing to come up with if there are exhaustive studies on this subject. There is no need to invent anything, you just need to publish only that which has quite serious scientific justifications. Another thing is that no one will do this, since everything invented (that is, glitches) has long been published. And now what to do with them? After all, admit that the academics of the Academies are losers, crooks and something not decent, then what to give them? I read somewhere that ak. Pokrovsky, if he had lived a little longer, he would have let them go as a waste, and yet you don’t like this with respect to the current academicians, so they use their privileges, further messing up the brains of an honest person. The situation today is almost stalemate, but you have to look for a way out and not raise your legs up.
                  2. +2
                    6 January 2018 06: 52
                    And the migration of peoples is so twisted and it was not one.
              2. +3
                5 January 2018 19: 06
                A nationwide idea was required. This was the legend of the ancient Aryans.
                .... By the way, this "small town" did not allow the socialist revolution to develop in Germany in 1918, but this is only one of the reasons .. And the legend of the ancient Aryans united the "towns" ...
            2. +6
              5 January 2018 17: 18
              I have long assumed that the desire to rewrite the history of your country is a sign of defeatist psychology.
              1. +5
                5 January 2018 18: 03
                Not even defeatist, but some unfinished business. What Germany, construct, what Ukraine. As they say, philologists, there is still no German language. About Ukrainian, looking at night, we will not remember at all.
                1. +3
                  5 January 2018 18: 40
                  But it’s interesting, the stepdaughter (let’s say so), returned from Cologne three days ago, she is fluent in German, she takes classes for a year and a half, but there she had to switch to English, because the local language constructions do not correspond to literary German.
                  1. +1
                    5 January 2018 19: 33
                    Yeah. In England, English is not as literary, of course, as we were taught in the Soviet school, but in general it is understandable, although local people who hear our English make round eyes. It is perceived, approximately, as in the village to speak, "gracious sovereign, you will not be so kind ..". But, nevertheless, the language is one. And in Germany, such a whistle.
                  2. Cat
                    +4
                    5 January 2018 19: 34
                    Everything is fine, as a cadet I shlopat "ud" in rhetoric for anorhizm "wipe from the clean" - "wipe the dust!" I was told what language do you speak young man? Fought off with the Dahl dictionary. The words “Zakuta”, “seed”, “yelan”, “backyard”, “picnic”, etc. periodically perplexed both my work colleagues and the specialized departments of the universities where I worked. Gamayun however!
                    Just recently, I came across in Orsk with the word in the procedural document - to hobble.
                    Rosya is a mother and a golden basket for an ethmologist and philologist!
                    1. +1
                      5 January 2018 20: 23
                      For all that, we understand each other without any problems. A German for a German may be dumb.
                      1. Cat
                        +1
                        5 January 2018 23: 38
                        So tea has been living in one state for eleven centuries!
                        All dialectic shifts, dialects and other phonetic and semantic differences prove one thing, that the Russian language is lively and dynamically developing. By the way, both Catherines (and both ethnically non-Russians) did a lot to preserve the Russian language. But it was not possible to overcome a number of borrowings in this way. For example, the "accountant" on the "accountant" could not be changed.
                2. +3
                  5 January 2018 22: 23
                  Interesting, Doctor, where did you get acquainted with the Ukrainian language? Or are you on the principle of "did not read, but condemn"?
                  1. +1
                    6 January 2018 06: 48
                    But what language is there? Sorry, but surzhik he is surzhik. A variant of Russian and, as Kotische writes, "Russian is a living and dynamically developing language." So it is developing.
                    1. +2
                      6 January 2018 11: 04
                      Yes, I’m sorry, but you should remember that ignorance is not so much ignorance, it is so much a psychological setting. And your answer inspires concern in this regard.
                      1. 0
                        6 January 2018 13: 36
                        Well, don’t hi, Viktor Nikolaevich, he won’t leave me.
                        It seems to me that the majority of active site participants in this section would like to see the future of the country in the form of the USSR 2.0 or RI 2.0. And in order for this state to form, you need to understand that Ukrainians, Belarusians and Russians are one people and one language, but with different dialects. And also remember that on the former territory in 1 / 6 part of the land, there is a superethnos that either will exist together or parts of it are separated by neighbors. Most likely without a trace.
        2. +1
          8 January 2018 22: 58
          Quote: Fedorovich
          7 Fedorovich ↑  
          5 January 2018 12: 42
          And the "Woeful Song of the Ruin of the Hungarian Aorolism by the Tatars" was also invented in the Vatican for "about
          you probably haven’t read it, there are transcripts, whom they mean by the Tatars!
  20. +7
    5 January 2018 11: 17
    This topic is for learned historians, not bloggers. Here in the comments you can award something that you can’t even dream about in a dream.
    1. +2
      5 January 2018 11: 35
      Quote: renics
      This topic is for learned historians, not bloggers.

      Note: historians are on a salary, and any such discussion can end for them not only with financial costs, but as their many centuries of practice confirms, they can even end with torture with fatal consequences.
      1. 0
        6 January 2018 04: 55
        Well, yes, everyone is sitting on the salary, but what do you want to starve them to hunger? For this, there are procedures defined in the scientific world for protecting someone who has developed scientific concepts or discoveries that must also be protected by presenting them for criticism in authoritative world journals, as well as scientific commissions of various kinds. And the whole blogging scribble presented does not represent anything, since it is not represented in any academic scientific community (I’m not even talking about those with a worldwide reputation) and has not been proved by anyone. And your answer is just a quote from various samples of ideological propaganda clichés apparently thoroughly memorized by your person. And when you publish your comments, you don’t even have any idea about it to judge it. About such people say. Upstart.
    2. +3
      5 January 2018 14: 50
      Who are the historians? Do they understand at least something? Already all experts openly scoff at them, up to horse breeders. And to give more than these strange people is no longer possible.
      Once, only the presence of a normal linguist saved the world from the appearance of the ancient Greek goddess, whose name, translated into Russian, would have sounded like Nessaka. It is from that word.
      1. +1
        6 January 2018 04: 57
        Such ignoramuses as you who openly imagine that you are academics with an eight-year-old or maybe a secondary education with grief in half are openly scoffing.
        1. +2
          6 January 2018 09: 37
          Any arguments other than swearing? Any material evidence of the existence of the great Tatar-Mongolia? For an educated person, this will not be very difficult to indicate.
          Here we have two stud farms in the region. He asked how much the maximum herd size on the pasture can be. They said that under ideal conditions - 30000 goals.
          1. +4
            6 January 2018 12: 36
            and you didn’t ask what kind of horse breed in the factories? if the Oryol men or Budennovka don’t stretch out on the pasture, but if the Mongolians ... they can eat everything and everywhere. I’ll be grateful to kmc for equestrianism even with the union. yes and groups drove tourists on horseback. So I have an idea how and when to feed a horse ... and there is enough material evidence, do you need to dig a barn that says nothing in the capital? Well, or go to a historical museum in Moscow. There’s a whole department According to the Mongols, what arguments do you have besides mythical haplogroups? And they completely ignore the same traditions that the Buryats Kazakhs and other nomads left about the Mongols. They also rewrote the history more precisely ...
            1. +2
              6 January 2018 13: 56
              Why ask there. Where did these small horses come from at the Khrenovsky stud farm? But this is not easier. Let it be not 30, but 40. No horses at all in winter will survive on the past in Russia. Because not enough food, but simply no food.
              A barn was excavated near Astrakhan - what does the Mongols have to do with it? More than 75 people do not succeed there, although this is a huge city for those times. But these are not Mongolian shepherds in a million numbers.
              Here is a list of departments of the Historical http://www.shm.ru/kollektsii-i-muzeynyy-kompleks/
              nauchno-khranitelskie-otdely / otdely /
              Where to look?
              In general, the presence of any cities contradicts the version of altistorics about nomads who do not have cities - they are nomads.
              I did not say anything about haplogroups, but why did they become mythical? Genetics has now become an exact science and it is ridiculous to argue with it, only on the basis that it is unknown who wrote something, it is unknown when, and then everything was copied from him.
              Buryats Mongoloids. But not the Mongols. They have very interesting legends about Baikal, but not at all about the conquest of Russia.
              1. +2
                6 January 2018 18: 12
                genetics yes. but haplogroups ... if you believe them, for example, in Tajikistan alone protorusses live. as long as there are more myths and trepidations around this matter than truth. about horses, a pedigree horse, especially a horse riding on grass and will not last in summer. More precisely, it will survive but not carry a rider can. but the Mongolian -maybe. which is now successfully proved to the same topic by the Mongols. Or do you think that they sow oats for their horses and sheep? I will disappoint you, they will manage to give the steppe. And they don’t live. Now Astrakhan. Have you seen the excavation? so there is a typical city of Central Asia. to recall who the Mongols passed through to Russia? nomads both lived in yurts and live and the city is already for nobility and production. why there? the terrain for nomads is favorable and again the trade route is settled. so there are no contradictions to logic here. so there were no problems with discipline — and the Mongols had logistics too — which was also not a problem for Chinese officials and engineers, they also had no problems getting to Russia.
                1. +2
                  6 January 2018 20: 43
                  However, genetics themselves recognize this part, and if they dispute it, then only interpret the results. Well i.e. the notorious R1a is there but it appeared as a result of not that, but this.
                  Again. In winter, in Russia, ANY horse has absolutely nothing. And the reindeer also has nothing.
                  A small horse carries less load, more clockwork is required. So increasing from 30 to 40, we do not get an increase in the number of riders.
                  The Mongols came under Astrakhan. Let us suppose. Founded the city - all of a sudden. Although they didn’t. Okay. Then what did they do? Normal nomads went on the raids, and certainly did not try to win something. Especially if it's something kilometers per thousand.
                  Nomads do not have to talk about any discipline. And what discipline can there be if, leaving these great campaigns, the nomads would doom their families to death? Now to collect all the Mongol men for a sufficiently long time to hell on the pies and that's it - there will be no Mongols in nature.
                  1. +1
                    7 January 2018 12: 35
                    in the first place it was not only the Mongols. or rather, far from the Mongols. the Mongols are managers and elite units. The rest was all that was collected along the way. By that time it was no longer just a horde, but an organization. The capture of China and Central Asia taught a lot. plus you completely forget that they already had bases on the way — the same Bulgars, for example. they didn’t come for 1 time. And I tell you again, the horses live and feed in the steppe. Until now. I brought Mongolia to you for a reason An example. And about how the nomads did not try to conquer and build something, you tell the Seljuk Turks. About discipline in the Mongolian army, a lot of things have been written for a long time. It makes no sense to retype.
                    1. +2
                      7 January 2018 17: 09
                      Lord Well, what managers from the shepherds! Which more than a dozen people have never seen.
                      And it makes no difference whether they had a base or not. Although it is not very clear - what could be on those bases for nomads. And who left them - the CIA instructor? If all the men left the nomad for a few months, the nomad will die out. Not very unnatural behavior?
                      The Seljuks had cities, some still exist. They behaved quite normally - seized the territory, settled, digested, seized yet.
                      And discipline ... where does it come from, if the warrior knows that when it is unknown why he is walking through the winter forest, because all his horses are dead (there is nothing for any horses in Russia in winter, nothing at all), then at that time his children are in Mongolia long ago wolves ate. And he has nowhere to return. And with nothing. Yes, and he will not return.
                      1. +6
                        7 January 2018 23: 18
                        Lord ... you yourself have stepped on your tail and trampled on ... the Seljuk Turks were just nomads ... yes, those shepherds who have no discipline and all the nomads died out ... and the Manjurs were shepherds ... these are the Manjurs who are China they crushed by themselves and planted their dynasty .. and don’t touch the horses .. you saw them only in the picture .. yes yes in our country as soon as winter all horses immediately die .. so it was ..
              2. +2
                7 January 2018 08: 36
                Quote: groks
                Buryats Mongoloids. But not the Mongols. They have very interesting legends about Baikal, but not at all about the conquest of Russia.

                I have one question for you: WHERE FROM ARE YOU TAKING THIS ... ????? DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING EXISTINGLY TO THE QUESTION ALLOW SUCH SUGGESTIONS that I personally have a judgment about you HOW ABOUT AN EXTREMELY REMAINED MENTALLY PERSON ...... Here I am drilling, my ancestors came from Dzungaria. I can be called Buryat-Mongol, by place of residence, and Oirat-Mongol, by blood ... But we became Buryats at the arrival of the Russians. There was no such division before. EVERYTHING WAS MONGOLS, the division went on tribes and clans ... If you don’t know something, then you’ll be better silent, you will look smarter ... But as soon as you open your mouth, you’ll look like something very silly .....
                1. 0
                  7 January 2018 13: 06
                  Do not disgrace your people. Even according to the official one, the Buryats are indigenous Siberians, and not alien Mongols.
                  And the name is not our fault. Self-designation is more than a thousand years old, according to the same official history. And the Mongols also called the Buryats, and did not consider themselves part of themselves. According to the official story.
                  So, if you want to consider yourself both a Buryat and a successor to Chingiz at the same time - alas.
                  Links to give or yourself?

                  Yes. We all come from one place. And even such boors, too. So do not drip and do not swear, but watch the Internet.
                  From the textbook for trolls. When you are rude to a person, call him name, then you should not call a man called on you.
                  1. +2
                    7 January 2018 20: 27
                    I can answer you only one thing - YOU NEED A TREATMENT .... If it is rudeness, and also you, then it is probably even more sophisticated .... Maybe they will ban me, BUT YOU JUST DID
                    1. +2
                      7 January 2018 21: 08
                      Are there any arguments? In addition to swearing. No? Why so?
                      Banned? So in fact from scratch the same place. After all, not a single argument is given in favor of an alternative from the Tatar-Mongols.
                      1. +1
                        8 January 2018 06: 57
                        This is not swearing. When a doctor calls in a madhouse, he does not call them names or scold them. HE STATES FACT. So I - I do not call you names and do not scold. I STATE THE FACT of your mental state ....
                  2. The comment was deleted.
  21. +14
    5 January 2018 11: 25
    It remains to wait for the article "The myth that the earth is spherical." All progressive people know that the earth is flat. The evidence is complete, but the Masons hide the truth.
    1. +8
      5 January 2018 12: 35
      No! The earth has a cubic shape. Soil from digging the seas where to put it? So they trimmed it quietly.
      1. +6
        5 January 2018 19: 19
        And in one modern cartoon they showed that the Earth is a hemisphere and rests on three elephants, and elephants stand on a turtle, and in another cartoon it is confirmed ... There, the heroes sailed to the edge of the Earth, you understand the sources are serious ... So with the cubic shape, bent ... On the edges of the cube then what is? Waterfalls or deep ditches so that the water does not drain .. Yes, and Holmes was sure that the Earth is flat .. Shows against authorities ..?
        1. Cat
          +4
          5 January 2018 19: 45
          Quote: parusnik
          And in one modern cartoon they showed that the Earth is a hemisphere and rests on three elephants, and elephants stand on a turtle, and in another cartoon it is confirmed ... There, the heroes sailed to the edge of the Earth, you understand the sources are serious ... So with the cubic shape, bent ... On the edges of the cube then what is? Waterfalls or deep ditches so that the water does not drain .. Yes, and Holmes was sure that the Earth is flat .. Shows against authorities ..?

          Dear Alexei, where are the cats? There will be cats - there will be peace for you, there will be no cats in the scheme described by you - prepare sneakers. I am coming to you!
          1. +4
            5 January 2018 20: 05
            where are the cats?
            ... In the Lukomorye .. By the way, the ancestral home of cats ... From there they went to settle on the Earth. According to the source, it goes to the left, goes to the right .. Slippers, not our method ...
            1. +1
              5 January 2018 21: 23
              Alexei, yes you are ignorant in slipper-cat relationships!
            2. Cat
              +2
              5 January 2018 23: 48
              Quote: parusnik
              where are the cats?
              ... In the Lukomorye .. By the way, the ancestral home of cats ... From there they went to settle on the Earth. According to the source, it goes to the left, goes to the right .. Slippers, not our method ...

              Yes there was a time! Went shit in the bast shoe - almost a natural-bio-toilet. And now rubber + chemistry is also unknown how this feat comes to you in the future.
              Although he noticed that my village periodically marks me the wheels of the car. All is well, but the city does not remain in debt! Communicate - flea!
        2. +2
          5 January 2018 19: 49
          So Watson did not finish. Doctors, they are such an accurate diagnosis, only close relatives. So Mycroft was in the know.
          Speaking of whales and turtles. E. Lukin "We rolled your sun" I recommend, a healthy laugh is guaranteed.
          1. +5
            5 January 2018 20: 08
            I read, so there’s a healthy laugh ... And after this article and not some comments to her .. not healthy went ...
    2. +4
      5 January 2018 15: 01
      As is known among junior researchers, the Earth has the shape of a suitcase. Come around the corner drinks
      1. +3
        5 January 2018 17: 54
        I can’t dispute, there is not enough education, and even that is humanitarian. One must ask his brother, he is a geophysicist, perhaps the evolution of terraforming led the cubic form to a parallelepiped-suitcase. Oh, by the way, is he with a pen?
        1. Cat
          +1
          5 January 2018 18: 25
          If you are talking about ice, then this is definitely Alaska! wassat
          It remains to roll and start to sing the song "I'm crazy"? Or first start to sing, and then roll?
        2. +5
          5 January 2018 18: 42
          Of course! Someone is carrying all this nonsense. laughing
          1. +2
            5 January 2018 19: 39
            Five points!!! Noticed, the ghouls began to roll off. And Shpakovsky is trying to polemicize with them. "Shura, this is not our method!"
          2. +3
            5 January 2018 21: 16
            Quote: avva2012
            Of course! Someone is carrying all this nonsense.

            Here it is interesting!
            https://youtu.be/59moaqOC9JU
  22. +15
    5 January 2018 11: 36
    Zadolbali Fomenkovtsy and others like them.
    The other day, Ruslana Pisanka opened our eyes that "Sumer is Ukraine" ... And it should be understood that Gilgamesh himself wore an embroidered shirt, rode all over Uruk and squealed in Ukrainian (Uruk): "Mokalyaku to gilyaka!" ...
    Well, today at VO ... What is this? Our answer to Chamberlain?
    Oh well. Let's forget the tanks of ancient ukra !!! Where are they to us with their Sumerians. I hope in the next article from this afftor to see more ambitious "historical" discoveries.
    I would like to read how Tsar Peter (aka Gostomysl) dug up the “Window to Europe” - the Baltic Sea. And how through this window Norman-Teutons-Swedes-Napoleons rushed to us, and all at the same time in "one bottle", so to speak. And then, you know, ukram can dig the sea, but are we not a "white race" with a forty-year-old history?
    1. +7
      5 January 2018 12: 15
      And I live in this window, in the very opening! And after all, none of the Europeans running past the transom closes behind them! One word: savages! They live in huts. Estimate how it shows !!!
    2. +4
      5 January 2018 12: 45
      Quote: mavrus
      Gilgamesh wore an embroidered shirt, galloped all over Uruk and screeched in Ukrainian (Uruk): "Mokalyaku on a gilyaka!".

      Well then! EMNIP, one of the most dangerous enemies of Gilgamesh was Aga, king of the city of Kish. Yeah - the title is typically Turkic, which means it was an obvious Mongol-Katz-up! laughing
    3. +2
      5 January 2018 17: 56
      By the way, is Pysanka a surname or a profession?
      1. Cat
        +4
        5 January 2018 18: 26
        Work alias!
      2. +5
        5 January 2018 18: 44
        I understand that Pysanka is a girl suffering from enuresis.
        1. Cat
          +3
          5 January 2018 19: 14
          Maybe everything is easier "cystitis"! Cold girl?
          1. +2
            5 January 2018 20: 02
            Both of you are hahanki, and I thought maybe this is a "journalist" in Ukrainian. Maybe they were pre-integrated to nouns with a capital letter as in German.
            1. +1
              6 January 2018 06: 52
              Is the scribe a journalist or something? laughing
          2. +3
            5 January 2018 20: 26
            Judging by the symptoms, this is a far-reaching case. An ascending infection has led to menengitis, however.
        2. +1
          6 January 2018 12: 58
          Yes, Doctor. In Russian, you are clearly not strong. An Easter egg is an appropriately decorated Easter egg. It is unlikely that this subject is worthy of such flat witticisms.
          1. +1
            6 January 2018 13: 44
            Did I understand correctly that this is a Russian-Ukrainian term?
            1. +1
              6 January 2018 17: 15
              No, Anton, the Russian-Ukrainian term, because, it is one language, Russian and its dialect, Ukrainian. Were in the southern Russian provinces, heard how they talk there?
              1. +1
                7 January 2018 01: 05
                I used to be in Ukraine, and moreover, I served there. And by ear I distinguish Krasnodar speech from, say, East Ukrainian.
          2. +1
            6 January 2018 16: 26
            In this context, worthy. We are not discussing Easter, but the next Svidomo.
    4. +2
      6 January 2018 06: 56
      Quote: mavrus
      and are we not a "white race" with a forty-year-old history?

      Which one do you think?
    5. +1
      6 January 2018 14: 51
      Quote: mavrus
      Ruslana Pisanka opened our eyes that "Sumer is Ukraine" ...

      Not Pysanka-actress, but Lizhichko (singer Ruslana).
      And best of all is a comment on her words - women are either smart or beautiful. And here two times no luck. We ourselves were surprised that the singer smoked in between ...
      The source of "heresy" does not sound quite like that \
      Our roots speak of ancient cultures and civilizations. A country that had Scythians, Sarmatians, Tripolye, Sumerians, and we would compete with Egypt every day in the possession. And we use the references that the USSR imposed on us at the time, and perceive ourselves as the rest of Soviet Ukraine, ”she emphasized.

      Maybe accidentally mistaken, listing. And maybe not by chance. But specifically inflated.
  23. +3
    5 January 2018 12: 02
    Quote: venaya

    And where did you manage to see "Igo", and even "Tatar", and even "Mongol".


    The fact is that badges and chevrons in those days ... Stop! It seems the puzzle is assembled!
    PS. In general, fun here :)
  24. +5
    5 January 2018 12: 16
    “Khalkhu, Oirats, anthropological Mongoloids, were then a poor nomadic community, consisting of disparate clans. They were primitive shepherds and hunters, who were at a very low primitive communal level of development and under no circumstances could create even the simplest proto-state entity, speaking of a kingdom and empire of global significance, this required a state tradition, a high level of spiritual and material culture, a well-developed economy that could equip armies with tens of thousands of soldiers. Primitive Mongoloid tribes were at the level of development of the then Indian tribes of the Amazon or North America. That is, even with the most fantastic luck and a successful combination of circumstances, they could not crush China, Khorezm, the kingdoms of the Caucasus, the mighty tribes of the Polovtsy and Alans, defeat Russia and invade Europe. "

    By analogy - the "myth of Attila":
    Huns, Huns - anthropological Mongoloids, then were a poor nomadic community, consisting of disparate genera. They were primitive shepherds and hunters, who were at a very low primitive communal level of development and under no circumstances could not create even the simplest proto-state entity, not to mention the kingdom and empire of global significance. To do this, we needed a state tradition, a high level of spiritual and material culture, a well-developed economy that could arm the army of tens of thousands of soldiers. Primitive Mongoloid tribes were at the level of development of the then Indian tribes of the Amazon or North America. That is, even with the most fantastic luck and a successful combination of circumstances, they could not defeat the Kushan Empire, the Sassanid Empire, the Gothic Empire of Emanarich, the Roman Empire and reach the gates of Rome!
    1. +1
      5 January 2018 14: 39
      By analogy - the "myth of Attila":

      And what material traces remained from the Huns? They came from nowhere, went nowhere (s). From the gates of Rome ... evaporated? Did they leave a genetic trace? Are there many Mongoloids in Rome? Looking at the Italians and Greeks, we can assume that they were repeatedly conquered by completely different people - so curly-haired, with noses and lips.
      1. +3
        5 January 2018 21: 19
        The Huns, before shaking Europe for about two centuries, lived in the Southern Urals, mingling with the local Caucasoid Finno-Ugric tribes. And they came mainly men, evaded destruction in the war with the Chinese. For two centuries, the constant mixing of blood, you can probably bring Mongoloid features to nothing .... And the description of Attila, speaking of his unusual facial features for the Romans, does not at all speak, as I know, of the pronounced Mongoloidity of the Huns. In Rome, they did not stay, went back to the territory of modern Hungary. Hungarians and their descendants
        1. Cat
          +2
          6 January 2018 00: 12
          Quote: Dzungar
          The Huns, before shaking Europe for about two centuries, lived in the Southern Urals, mingling with the local Caucasoid Finno-Ugric tribes. And they came mainly men, evaded destruction in the war with the Chinese. For two centuries, the constant mixing of blood, you can probably bring Mongoloid features to nothing .... And the description of Attila, speaking of his unusual facial features for the Romans, does not at all speak, as I know, of the pronounced Mongoloidity of the Huns. In Rome, they did not stay, went back to the territory of modern Hungary. Hungarians and their descendants

          Is everything messy somehow? what
          Let's get it in order!
          The Huns and Hungarians do not have an equal sign, this is one-for-one. Moreover, both peoples share a time frame from two to three centuries. After the beginning of the great migration of peoples, who only from east to west did not take a walk. So a partial assimilation of the Ugrians and the Huns is possible. But to say that the Huns are a Finno-Ugric tribe? I think no! Although the participation of the Ugrians in Attila's campaigns is more than possible. By the way, it is more likely that the Ugrians, even if they participated in the campaigns of the Huns, then returned to the Urals. After the Huns, a few more waves swept, one of the last being Avars. They just settled in Panionia. The Ugrians moved west in the 8th – 9th centuries. What evidence is available both from our chroniclers, and from Byzantine and Venetian sources. So they just defeated the Avar Kaganate and occupied its lands.
          1. +1
            6 January 2018 09: 21
            Quote: Kotischa
            But to say that the Huns are a Finno-Ugric tribe? I think no!

            I do not say this. I want to say that the Huns are a mixture of the Huns and the Finno-Ugric peoples. And the fact that the Hungarians are direct descendants of the Huns, I would not argue either, knowing that how many things there have happened and gone since then
            1. Cat
              +2
              6 January 2018 13: 52
              Why not!
              Although the "content" is more complex, including with the Indo-European component! Both by blood and by culture!
              But from the approval of the mixture of hun and Hungarians, I would beware.
              1. +1
                7 January 2018 08: 42
                Please note - I'm talking about a mixture of Huns and Finno-Ugric peoples. In principle, I should not go about the mixture of Hunnu and Hungarians here, since the Hunnu disappeared long before the appearance of the Hungarians proper as a nationality ....
                1. +2
                  7 January 2018 09: 43
                  Absolutely right! So the Buryats are not Huns, although in Ulan-Ude there are Hunnic settlements.
                  Here Klesov and Samsonov would draw a racially correct conclusion from this
                  1. +1
                    10 January 2018 08: 38
                    We try to be wiser and not say that the Buryats and Mongols are generally direct descendants of the Huns. We believe that the Huns are common ancestors for the Turks and the Mongols. But do not forget who, until now, lives on the lands of Hunnu ..? And who on the question of SHI - HUN ..? What does it mean in Buryat - YOU - HUN ..? Without any delay and doubt will answer BI - HUN ..? I am HUN ...
        2. +2
          6 January 2018 09: 45
          These same Finno-Ugric people are not very Caucasoid. The inhabitants of the south and west of Ukraine, the Bulgarians, the Turks have not pressed for a long time. However, they are very dark-skinned.
  25. +8
    5 January 2018 12: 27
    I did not quite understand the article.
    First they write: "As noted earlier, the myth of the "Mongols from Mongolia" was invented in the conceptual and ideological center of the West, which stores the "keys" to history, in papal Rome. The Russian superethnos (Russ) has existed from the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has been at least 40–45 thousand years old."
    I decided that it was irony, but then more. Here even Lev Gumilyov nervously smokes on the sidelines. There were no Mongols, there were Russians in all of Eurasia.

    Then comes a detailed and long-known description of the Tatar-Mongol invasion.
    1. +1
      5 January 2018 12: 40
      Quote: Resident of the Urals
      Lev Gumilyov nervously smokes on the sidelines. There were no Mongols, there were Russians in all of Eurasia.

      So what do we all do now? After all, both genetics (DNA-gynealogy) and linguistics, and even archeology says all about the same. This is really bad luck, how can we deal with numerous scientific disciplines, and they all multiply and multiply. It seems to become hard in the modern World, in the world of new information technologies and new scientific disciplines.
      1. +7
        5 January 2018 12: 49
        You don’t listen to the voices in your head - it’s the same MOM whispers to you ...
      2. 0
        5 January 2018 21: 22
        Venya! Your DNA genealogy came from where your center for organizing all revolutions is located .....
    2. Cat
      +6
      5 January 2018 18: 29
      Quote: A resident of the Urals
      I did not quite understand the article.
      First they write: "As noted earlier, the myth of the "Mongols from Mongolia" was invented in the conceptual and ideological center of the West, which stores the "keys" to history, in papal Rome. The Russian superethnos (Russ) has existed from the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has been at least 40–45 thousand years old."
      I decided that it was irony, but then more. Here even Lev Gumilyov nervously smokes on the sidelines. There were no Mongols, there were Russians in all of Eurasia.

      Then comes a detailed and long-known description of the Tatar-Mongol invasion.


      Countryman hold on !!!
  26. +4
    5 January 2018 12: 48
    "At the meetings of the" Mongolian "nobility of 1229 and 1235, it was decided to go west."

    Why was this decided? No answer.

    "The main role in the degradation of the Golden (or rather, the White) Horde was played by Islamization and Arabization. A huge influx of Arabs, attracted by gold, led to the victory of Islam over the ancient boreal tradition."

    Arabs handed out gold? Why is Islam defeated? Has your faith stopped answering the main questions?

    If the Tatar-Mongols were white, the same Russian, then why so cruel? Possessing Siberia broke into small Russian principalities, why?

    The article is crude. More answers are given by Professor Klesov's work on DNA genealogy:
    DNA genealogy:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u59taZFscYs&t
    = 2170s

    Anatoly Klyosov. Mysteries of the ancient Slavs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz8giYr3AQI

    Professor Klyosov. "Russians through the Millennia"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKwzflG1y5U
    1. +2
      5 January 2018 21: 24
      And you will find out what Klesov’s DNA genealogy is
      1. +3
        6 January 2018 03: 52
        You are not familiar with DNA genealogy. Roller - porridge from pictures and text of an unknown author. So scientific theories do not refute.
        1. +2
          6 January 2018 09: 35
          I understand that the video does not refute anything. But there is information for reflection
          1. +2
            6 January 2018 16: 37
            Thanks for the information.
  27. +1
    5 January 2018 13: 28
    Great protoukry!
  28. +9
    5 January 2018 13: 39
    Samsonov, as always, anneals - apparently, he is from the Tatars and is tormented by an inferiority complex laughing

    A big request to the VO administration is to post such alternative articles in the Opinions section.
    1. +7
      5 January 2018 13: 52
      The author is himself from this site’s strengths, so the articles will be posted at least diagonally.
    2. +4
      5 January 2018 19: 58
      A big request to the VO administration is to post such alternative articles in the Opinions section.

      In the "mania" section, you need to create.
    3. +6
      5 January 2018 21: 26
      I have a suspicion that the administration of VO with Samsonov is in share ..... Well, all right now, they will ban me .....
      1. +4
        7 January 2018 05: 04
        Quote: Dzungar
        I have a suspicion that the administration of VO with Samsonov is in share ..... Well, all right now, they will ban me .....

        want-banned. I just got out of the ban today. Chrono-natives have a strong lobby on the site
        1. +2
          7 January 2018 08: 38
          They still have Igor Prokopenko Kent .... Broadcasts continuously ....
          1. +3
            7 January 2018 09: 52
            The German site, some of the writers in England are sitting in the same institution as Rezun, and local lovers of Aryan blood look into their mouths, "saving the Slavic history" that they dictate from Berlin Cambridge and Tel Aviv
            1. +1
              10 January 2018 09: 06
              EARNEST ...! Not hard to guess....
  29. +5
    5 January 2018 13: 47
    Quote: NEXUS
    Tell me, the history of which civilization the Slavs belittle or rewrite?

    Your own!
    1. +4
      5 January 2018 14: 31
      Hello, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Happy New Year! And here we are "indulging in the goodies," having fun as we can. The doctor, won, yesterday declared me an infected traitor, introduced me into the scriptive list. True, there is nothing to take from me, well, yes, and he is not Sulla. I’m sitting, I’m waiting for a commandant platoon ...
      1. +4
        5 January 2018 15: 56
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        I’m sitting, I’m waiting for a commandant platoon ...

        Knock Knock. Sailor Zheleznyak with comrades. Called up? laughing
      2. +3
        5 January 2018 16: 10
        Are you crazy? Well, what do you, Anton, know what an infection is, I know firsthand. The main thing that is required to prevent the spread of infection is the strictest quarantine. Yes and I don’t have a list. Nothing. Good memory laughing
        1. 0
          5 January 2018 22: 49
          I'm making a mess ?! Yes, not my God! Here they go to another instance. I'm kidding and sharing my impressions.
          1. +1
            6 January 2018 07: 00
            It happens that different people have different instances.
            1. +2
              6 January 2018 08: 02
              It happens, but I can’t even complain to Rostekhnadzor, because from time to time I send it myself, because, in my humble but deep conviction, any office whose name begins with the word “grew” is thoroughly corrupt and can bring the greatest benefit to the state and the people only at logging
              1. +1
                6 January 2018 14: 17
                How, you, not accurately to a particle, "grew"! This, sacred, how so ?! Oh, and I suspected I didn’t have a gallogroup! laughing But, in general, it’s lucky for you that this is not Rospotrebnadzor. You won’t send those.
      3. +3
        5 January 2018 19: 09
        Hello! Happy New Year! I didn’t want to come in, bother anyone. Yes, I could not resist. I take this opportunity to write more in advance. And about the betrayal ... I want to remind you that there are no traitors-winners. All traitors are defeated. The winner cannot be a traitor, so he does not, that's all!
        1. +1
          5 January 2018 20: 03
          Quote: kalibr
          I want to remind you that there are no traitors-winners

          With new and upcoming. However, there are ... Take the same Zhukov, who tried using Hitler to remove Stalin ...
          1. +5
            6 January 2018 18: 03
            What kind of addiction is this?
            1. +2
              7 January 2018 08: 44
              We are still not such nonsense we can hear ... I think so ....
        2. +5
          5 January 2018 20: 32
          They say that if you cross the pork and call it fish, then it will go to the post.
          Example, Ukraine. Killers and rapists have become national heroes or not?
  30. +2
    5 January 2018 13: 47
    Quote: 210ox
    The second time I read the article. It was similar before the holiday. I share the opinion of the author. Although of course it is impossible to say for sure. The story of this girl is the same as you turn it ...

    ------------------------------------------
    It is necessary not only to stupidly look at annalistic sources, which can be stupidly falsified. A recent story is being falsified. Forged genuine documents and throw in new ones. On one Stalin and his Government have already poured how much slop. We must look at the geographical conditions of that time. So I live on the Volga, in Chuvashia. It is here that it is a very convenient place for strongholds where you can organize trips to the Russian regions. The picture of the rivers was different than now, when the Volga was blocked by numerous dams and dams and dried up the former rivers. If we go further than modern Tatarstan, then there is already inconvenience. Not without reason, places further than modern Tatarstan were mastered much later — Orenburg, Chelyabinsk. The climate is tougher, two pre-winters. Chuvashia, part of Mari El, Mordovia and Tatarstan in this sense is more convenient. If from my city to Moscow by train 10 hours, the army on horseback will be there in a couple of days. In general, shoulder reach so to speak. We must also look at the climate. There is evidence that the winters were shorter and there was no feed for cavalry. Of course, I am not a historian, not an ethnographer, I can only compare and assume something. But if you develop thoughts, then there is hardly a place for an offensive, or rather regular "shift" offensives, than there are places where I live.
    1. +3
      5 January 2018 13: 50
      Are you raving?
  31. +12
    5 January 2018 13: 50
    The Russian superethnos (Russ) has existed from the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has at least 40 - 45 thousand years.
    You can no longer read further, but I’ll definitely read the comments too, in order to cleanly burn wassat ))).
    In some ways, these dances around the Russians and the denial of the nomadic invasion from the East by nations alien to us resemble the hype in the Reich of the 30-4th years of the last century. They also rushed with their "Aryanism" and superiority German race, yes, everyone, the "great ones" have come to terms. To argue with the adherents of the so-called "Great Russian" I do not think is possible, because they “grabbed” a couple of muddy little books in their life, but they feed on such articles, and in order to analyze and most importantly compare scientific works or historical artifacts with each other ---... well, it’s not wassat!!! ))) At least at one excavation site, there were "scientists", therefore Internet links do not work in a scientific dispute, because you can print any garbage and draw any card, but it's all rubbish, because such arguments are not considered in science, there are only FACTS. And you have no FACTS, gentlemen obscurantists, so Auf Wiedersehen, descendants of a great race! hi
    1. +4
      5 January 2018 21: 31
      There is subversive work to destroy the Russians. At the same time, and those who are nearby. To quarrel, destroy the old story and not give a new one
    2. +2
      6 January 2018 07: 04
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      They, too, were worn with their "Aryanism"

      they only lied because of the whites the most non-Aryan people, with the exception of the Prussians, who are generally of origin, are more Germanized Slavs than Germans.
  32. +5
    5 January 2018 14: 24
    There must be very serious reasons for such a massive falsification. And not only in Russia. Rather, somewhere there was a substitution of concepts and events acquired a different meaning. And therefore, historians (you know Shpakovsky, like these) have heaped up a bunch of absurdities.
    1. +1
      6 January 2018 07: 20
      Rather, a similar submission to the article discredits this topic. Everyone is invited to continue to believe in the unwashed, unwritten bastard Russia, which called on its roach rusks and kvass of Scandinavians, a bunch of inferior people massively consumed with opium in 988 and learned the light of democracy only in 1991. Before that, when these savages dressed up in punched tapes, their diskettes were large and the displays were small , they didn’t even have writing with virtual keyboards in Latin.
      In general, the first cosmonaut in the world is Musk, and F.G. Power Russia discovered and on the World Map along with Baikonur applied. This is your Next Step, gentlemen, comrades.
      1. 0
        6 January 2018 07: 29
        Baikonur - from the word bike, could there be anything for these Russians except kvass and bast shoes? what other 40 thousand years history?
  33. +11
    5 January 2018 15: 48
    Oh, how Fomenkovism stinks. Through Greco-Palestine,
    Hiding the scimitar in the incense
    Had a hajj to Ukraine
    Pope Genghis Khan.
    1. +7
      5 January 2018 16: 04
      You are mistaken, the physics of the process is different. Fomenko has contraction, and here is expansion, another clinical picture. Damn, I’ll become a specialist in historical psychiatry. A cool verse.
      1. 0
        6 January 2018 07: 37
        Vseravno over all this, Einstein invented (special thanks to the Japanese) even the atomic bomb - did he not show you his own language here?
  34. +1
    5 January 2018 15: 58
    Quote: Fedorovich
    Are you raving?

    -------------------------------------
    Before going to Russia, the Volga Bulgaria was ground, this is the X-XIII century. In general, a wealthy and non-sickly state was rolled into almost the ground. Then there were organized strongholds both Russian and other warring parties. Surely, those who travel from Moscow to Kazan or to the south, towards Ulyanovsk, passed Tsivilsk or Kanash. This is the "gate" in any direction, anywhere in the country.
  35. +3
    5 January 2018 16: 01
    historians are as truthful as journalists, everything must be confirmed by material things - archaeological artifacts.
  36. +5
    5 January 2018 16: 31
    reluctance to fuck up the site with pornography .. those who wish can find photos of Etruscan vases with a variety of homo themes ... I appeal to those who believe that Etruscan is Russian. Find these photos and choose your ancestor. You decide who yours is, who is on top or who is from the bottom ...
    1. +2
      5 January 2018 16: 56
      And where is the "homo theme" here?
      It seems that everything is clearly written in Russian. Do not find? By the way, writing is very similar to the "Cyrillic alphabet" (I recall that Cyril and Mythodius appeared in print only after 1901, were not previously noticed in the literature).
      1. +5
        5 January 2018 17: 29
        It seems that everything is clearly written in Russian.
        Where? You won’t translate, but, as it turned out, I can’t even draw from the Church Slavonic parallel to what is written here.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. +2
          5 January 2018 18: 14
          Quote: avva2012
          .. I can’t even draw a parallel from the Church Slavonic on what is written here

          Naturally! Church Slavic when and why created? Indeed, it was only in the 2500th century that the Bible was translated from Greek and Hebrew, and here the inscriptions are more than XNUMX years old. Personally, I calmly read: "Cupid's arrow hit Nymph"Is it really not visible? Then you need to train in reading the oldest Russian-language inscriptions. By the way, neither I, nor many, have yet managed to read all the inscriptions, here we need not only training but also additional knowledge, some partially already possess them. Even an entire academic laboratory this account is available, you can ask about it in more detail.
          1. +1
            5 January 2018 18: 54
            Cupid, god under the goddess of love in Roman mythology. The Etruscans, if I am not mistaken, had statehood, when the future Romans, even from the palm trees, did not all get down. The Romans themselves, adopted their entire mythology, much, later from the Greeks. What is Cupid's arrow, sorry? Yes, and a nymph, too?
            1. +2
              5 January 2018 19: 34
              Quote: avva2012
              What is Cupid's arrow, sorry? Yes, and a nymph, too?

              Sorry, but I’m not telling you stories from textbooks here, but a truly recognized artifact, which by the way was once stored in the Berlin Museum. The fact that the silly "historians" wrote it has nothing to do with archaeological artifacts. It is necessary, in the end, to understand the difference in the artifact, from which one cannot never depart from the mind with the inventions of various interpreters who have nothing to do with science. Unfortunately, there are an overwhelming majority of such "historians", hence not only my attitude to this "science". By the way, the Greeks themselves had great respect for the Etruscans - hence it is possible that they adopted a lot from them, which is confirmed by many facts.
              1. +4
                5 January 2018 20: 13
                Brain thinning fluid. The names of the Etruscan gods are known. Cupid does not smell there.
                1. +3
                  5 January 2018 20: 38
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Cupid does not smell there.

                  Recognized by the historical community of the XNUMXth century, artifacts to the side. There is a very significant indication “from above” (or maybe from the side) to recognize only what is beneficial! The position is clear, does not require additional explanations.
                  1. +3
                    6 January 2018 21: 52
                    It's about Cupid! And that nonsense is not necessary ... The Etruscan supreme god is Tinia, the heavenly thunder god, Weiya, the goddess of earth and fertility, Catha, the sun, Tivre, the moon, Cephlans, the god of fire, Turan, the goddess of love, Laran, the god of war, Leinth , the goddess of death, Thalna, Turms and the god Fufluns, whose name is in some obscure way related to the name of the city of Populonia.
                    These deities were ruled by higher ones, which, apparently, reflected the Indo-European system: Uni, Sel, the goddess of the earth, Menvra. The Greek gods, borrowed by the Etruscan system during the Etruscan period of orientation in 750 / 700-600 BC, acted as the third layer. e.: Aritimi (Artemis), Apulu (Apollo), Aita (Hades) and Paha (Bacchus).
                    No need to go aside. And to write according to the "direction" where you just need to know and not to bother.
                    1. +6
                      7 January 2018 05: 16
                      Why are you talking to this charlotan? Read the “Implicit Labels” article in V.A. Chudinov's "Return the Etruscans of Russia" - and everything will become clear. The dude just took photoshoots from magazines and encyclopedias (yes, right without leaving the pool :)), but that he couldn’t, he just threw out and drew what was needed by hand. In general, the list of receivers there that one? Like a real counterfeiter!
                      and all these dolboslavs on the site believe such Chudinovs and Veni. Common charlatans
                  2. +5
                    7 January 2018 05: 08
                    [/ Quote]
                    Recognized by the historical community of the XNUMXth century, artifacts to the side. [/ quote]
                    Sideways for Chudily Chudilych, who didn’t hold them in his hands, didn’t even approach a cannon shot. And the tools of his "research" were the phone and photoshop. Moreover, any Katala would envy the methods of this self-proclaimed academician
                    1. +1
                      7 January 2018 08: 27
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      Recognized by the historical community of the XNUMXth century, artifacts to the side.

                      What is also inferior? When we correctly begin to rewrite nicknames Natsik is not ours. The artifact I brought so far has not been disputed by anyone, where does such hatred for the Rus come from? The developed complex is not useful, or what? Maybe I’ll give you some book of the century that way of the XNUMXth, if glitches about Chudinov’s end, which in those days still could not be born.
            2. +1
              6 January 2018 21: 57
              Doctor, everything is already part of your colleagues, unless you are a psychiatrist. What to ask about Cupids and nymphs? No need at all ...
      2. +1
        5 January 2018 18: 38
        Shcherbakov is added to Asov. Oh yes ... Sorry, Mikhail Nikolayevich died - he would say a lot of interesting things about you.
    2. +1
      6 January 2018 15: 02
      Quote: Long in stock.
      Etruscan vases with diverse

      um ... the topic is sensitive, but the Bible with pornography is kept in Paris (16th century), and almost everyone, including Greeks, dabbled in vases with representatives of orientations. Yes, and not only vases.
      1. +1
        6 January 2018 18: 22
        so I suggest that the descendants of the Ettorian choose an ancestor for themselves .. it's the same heritage. it’s worthless to neglect it ..
      2. +1
        6 January 2018 21: 53
        Here was my article - Etruscan against Russians, it seems so. There was this same vase with a picture ...
        1. +1
          7 January 2018 12: 38
          was Vyacheslav ... so I think they saw this vase or did not look ..
  37. +1
    5 January 2018 16: 40
    I’m not ready to take sides on the issue with the “Mongols”. It is precisely that historiography is always a biased thing.
    I dig no, no on the topic of forgotten expeditions and forgotten people, not only in theory, i.e. on the Internet, but purely practical, in the "field". They make a fool of our brother. At times, insignificance and a liar are recorded in the number of outstanding people, the name is well known.
    It happens exactly the opposite. For example, one of the greatest pioneers in history, who, by the way, worked hard for Russia, is not widely known in Russia, perhaps due to strange political convictions, in particular, he was sympathetic to the possessed Adolf, while Adolf helped the Jews hide in this. Such a person was inconvenient for the situation; there were also rumors of a sodomite character about him.
    So many things have been misinterpreted even in the history of the 19th and 20th centuries, perhaps now if we can get to the bottom of the truth of our history of the 13th century ...
  38. +5
    5 January 2018 17: 07
    Shaw, again? Well, what an aggravation, it seems not autumn or spring. Super ethnic group of Russians? 40-45 thousand years? Why are there such numbers? Do you have notes of these "Rus" themselves? Or did their Neanderthal paparazzi (these Untermensch have long lived in the neighborhood of the "white race") take pictures?
    1. +6
      5 January 2018 17: 34
      Not fall-spring, the full moon ends, ghouls swallow the last drops.
    2. +6
      5 January 2018 17: 59
      You ask Venia, he has these notes in the secret room, apparently invisible, on papyrus, granite, and parchment. Yes, and with photographs of Russoarii in color A1 format and autographs such as "I am Gostomysl, son of Dazhdzhobozhy." Hey, I swear by a neighboring pig!
      1. Cat
        +3
        5 January 2018 18: 35
        So at once they look at my aspic!
        Why?
  39. +8
    5 January 2018 17: 23
    Frightening is how this game ends- "To be continued ....." Enough and the first part. Site administration, why such articles? The fragile minds of such nonsense are read and they will begin to confuse Batu Khan with A. Nevsky. It is necessary to stop this stream of twilight consciousness. 45 thousand years of Rus !!!!!!! This is a direct road to ancient ukraine diggers of the sea and mounds of the mountains of the Caucasus! Why put such material on the site? For the sake of battle in the comments or is it the highest level trolling?
    1. +1
      5 January 2018 17: 51
      Come on! You haven’t read about Velikoluksemburgis yet, and there is such a scribble, fortunately, they don’t translate it. And on the site they even print Norman game - the screen will endure everything.
      1. +4
        5 January 2018 18: 09
        At home, let them at least write something, but why do we need all this? On a good site, these false historians staged, God forgive me, a gay parade, and reading to us like the ancient chroniclers wrote, terrified! I wanted to recommend to my son to use topvar materials in preparation for history lessons, but now I won’t! Otherwise, they’ll take me straight from the lesson to Durkee.
      2. +3
        5 January 2018 21: 38
        Already the great Chuvash appeared ..... Ears are folded into a tube .....
        1. +2
          6 January 2018 08: 04
          no, only jungars can be great.
          1. +1
            6 January 2018 09: 25
            In great regret, Dzungaria was destroyed in the period 1756-58. The current Jungars are scattered in three countries
            1. 0
              6 January 2018 17: 06
              true Kazakhs may be against
              1. +1
                7 January 2018 08: 58
                They can .... They fought for a hundred years with the Dzungars, almost destroyed by them (Oktoban Shubyrynda), every mention of the Dzungars is painful. Although they made money on the death of Dzungaria quite well ....
                1. +1
                  7 January 2018 10: 00
                  Didn’t they destroy her at all?
                  1. 0
                    10 January 2018 09: 09
                    The Kazakhs in the destruction of the Dzungaria were on the sidelines. And all the work was done by the Manchu-Chinese army. Kazakhs just hit Dzhungaram in the back and were among the Manchu Chinese
                    1. +1
                      10 January 2018 09: 29
                      according to their ideas, the jungars were completely destroyed.
                      1. +1
                        13 January 2018 21: 26
                        Part of the Dzungar went to the Kalmyks. They are called Zungars. Part went to the historical Motherland - the territory of modern Irkutsk region. These are the families of Ikinatus, Zungars, Saganuts ... Some of them remained in Mongolia and China. All of them - a small part remaining after the destruction of Dzungaria
                    2. 0
                      15 January 2018 00: 06
                      what religion do they belong to?
        2. 0
          7 January 2018 17: 22
          And the Tatars have a Great Bulgarian state in the 9th - early 13th centuries, and Moscow is theirs.
          1. 0
            7 January 2018 17: 36
            Quote: Anton Yu
            And the Tatars have a Great Bulgarian state in the 9th - early 13th centuries, and Moscow is theirs.

            Something you ALL mixed. What does the "Tatars" and "Bulgars" have to do with it? And yet, was there Moscow in those days when this land was under the Bulgars? And most importantly, WHO, what tribes inhabited this area?
            And yet, you know the tragic fate of Prince Igor of Kiev, what tribute did he try to collect from the Drevlyans when they killed him?
            1. +2
              7 January 2018 17: 41
              I did not interfere. If you do not know, then the Tatars consider themselves Bulgars. In your opinion, Moscow was not in the 12-13 centuries? Original.
              1. 0
                7 January 2018 20: 32
                Quote: Anton Yu
                then the Tatars consider themselves Bulgars

                Do you still have the BULGARS themselves .... They themselves do not count the Tatars for sure
          2. +1
            7 January 2018 20: 30
            OOOO !!!! Something else new, And no less unique as the theory of "Scythian Siberians ....! Does anyone know more about this ... ???
  40. +1
    5 January 2018 17: 25
    The Russian superethnos (Russ) has existed from the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet, our history has at least 40 - 45 thousand years.
    -------------------------------------------
    Something is a bit much for the "superethnos", especially since according to the old Russian calendar, we now have only 7526 years from the creation of the world in the Star Temple according to the old Russian calendar. It turns out that for 40 thousand years there has been a quasi-social community of people that somehow communicated with each other and generally led some kind of meaningful lifestyle.
    1. +3
      5 January 2018 17: 51
      Quote: Altona
      too much for the "superethnos", especially since according to the old Russian calendar, we now only have 7526 year from the creation of the world in the Star Temple according to the old Russian calendar

      It is you who take only the last calendar, and there were many of them. According to M. Lomonosov, this was the case for 399 thousand years, too many Indians have calendars, another thing with the evidence base of these allegations is not very good yet, they say they are 3 to 60 thousand years old, and in the Veles Book it is defined as 21- a thousand years old, well, just like the age of the haplogroup "R1a" - it exactly converges. And the language maximum 60 thousand years, which corresponds to the ancestral haplogroup, which is called "P". Another thing written sources say is much more advanced, by the way now they are already writing about a calendar of 600 thousand years, but everything needs to be carefully checked. And the last calendar with the 7526th summer, so many people still use it, and A.S. Pushkin loved him and set the date in his drafts on it. By the way, the word "year" - of Dutch origin = God - means God. In English, "Happy new (God) Year" - the term "Year" - means the God of the Sun. Such is the New Year language tour.
      1. +8
        5 January 2018 18: 40
        Listen, didn’t you forget to drink the medicine? Haloperidol there, or something else? ..
        1. +4
          5 January 2018 20: 16
          Haloperidol does not help with this. This condition is called the star of consciousness. This is not treated!
      2. +2
        5 January 2018 20: 32
        By the way, in English God is Lord!
        1. +3
          5 January 2018 20: 42
          Quote: kalibr
          By the way, in English God is Lord!

          It is advisable to conduct the “New Year” without any frills, or at least later to hangover.
          1. +1
            6 January 2018 12: 56
            Ignorance is a bad argument and you cannot disguise it with humor. When you will have 4 books written and published in English. lang then we'll talk.
  41. +1
    5 January 2018 17: 28
    NEXUS,
    And you tell, maybe you will justify your stories?
  42. +6
    5 January 2018 17: 36
    Quote: venaya
    Quote: Long in stock.
    and Stonehenge also installed the Rus?

    Do you have any other options on this subject? If not, then by definition, such as the whole of present-day Europe was dominated precisely by the Rus (R1a1), then any other options can be considered simply incredible or negligible. If you manage to find at least one more possible option on this question, then perhaps this will be a really great scientific breakthrough. Really try to offer something new, then we will separately consider this issue.

    And here’s Venia, with Russians from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean ..... Venya, I’ve already bickered with you in the comments, the last time I asked for evidence of the existence of the original Russian language and the ancient Russian multi-thousand year old writing .... And netuti , Venya is silent from Venland ... So you and your kind must truly be sent to an eternal ban. Your malicious activity is that you replace the history of the state with some kind of game of the 100500th level and people trusting mystic loners like you become creatures without a clan and tribe with some unprecedentedly fabulous past.
    1. +1
      6 January 2018 01: 01
      I still don’t remember Easter Island ...
      1. +2
        6 January 2018 02: 26
        Quote: long in stock.
        I still don’t remember Easter Island ...

        But it’s a pity, because on Easter Island there are the same idols that were found on the Kola Peninsula. Read, interestingly, the connection around the World was once quite developed not just now, in the World of developed individualism.
        1. +2
          6 January 2018 09: 30
          and on the Kola Peninsula the same as on the lake titi-kaka. here the circle of resettlement is closed !! by the way, to increase development, do not translate the name of the lake into Russian?
  43. +3
    5 January 2018 17: 43
    The parable of protoucra.
    1. +5
      5 January 2018 20: 18
      People are jealous that Ukraine is much ahead of Russia in this matter. It's a shame that we are behind and I want to catch up!
  44. +7
    5 January 2018 17: 55
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Well, why? You can fast and laugh.

    Unfortunately, such articles began to appear with an enviable frequency .... And before April 45, even farther. Yes, it seems that the form of the site does not imply such dung material, it is more appropriate for any um ... In short, you can’t publish it here, otherwise in case of a dispute on any issue, you will refer to the topvar, and in response, poked -type this is the site where the Russians XNUMX- millennial swarm swarm. And that's it, come. That's what I'm afraid of.
    1. Cat
      +5
      5 January 2018 18: 41
      What remains to be done?
      Cry, banging his head against the wall, or slamming the door to leave!
      Yes, it’s sickening that your favorite site has degraded to a glorious drinker of “hamsters”. As if having glorified himself as “heresy”, attributing himself to the reign of millennia of history, the imaginary exploits “like me and the Cheburashka ....” while deleting his pages .........
      The question is who needs this?
    2. +8
      5 January 2018 20: 28
      Previously, strange types, sometimes with an 10-old education, who brought thick notebooks of "scientific" revelations and demanded to be candidates of philosophical sciences, came to our department of philosophy with enviable regularity ... A type who found evidence of Penza's earlier foundation on a crumpled piece came to me skin the size of a walnut kernel - "It is written here, I clearly read it!" Hardly got rid of him! In a Penza newspaper, a firefighter from Mokshan wrote that the Egyptian pyramids are breakwaters from the Flood! But now there is the Internet and they don’t come to us anymore. Now they are all here !!! So, probably, my colleagues and I need to thank him for that. There are blood-sucking banks - bad blood is sucked out of people, and there is a "foolish" Internet. Well, thank God!
  45. +8
    5 January 2018 18: 21
    Well, really enrages. Instead of studying the real history of their country and people, in which there are so many glorious pages, so many great people, no, they are raving and these ravings are being spilled on people.
    1. +2
      5 January 2018 19: 10
      Quote: Cherkashin Ivan
      Well, really enrages. Instead of studying the real history of your country and people ..

      You have missed something here, do not confuse the concept of "country" with the concept of "people." At the moment, representatives of different nations already live in one country, and even more interestingly, the same people turned out to live in many different countries. Here, in order to sort this out, we need similar non-standard articles covering the problem from just different angles. It’s another matter that this question is probably not personally interesting to you, but this does not eliminate the need to publish such articles, moreover, regularly and quite often. If you personally are not interested in something here, then you can safely switch to simple fiction, it happens that it calms you down.
      1. +5
        5 January 2018 20: 22
        To get started, read the 18 volumes of Russian archeology. This is what is posted on the Web today and is accessible to everyone.
      2. +3
        5 January 2018 21: 29
        Dear, judging by your comment, you are trained to read and write. As in this case, you did not notice that I have written "country and people", so I share these concepts.
        What should I read is not up to you to decide when I need to and I also read fiction. And she is much more honest than this opus, there the author’s fantasies are not trying to pass off as truth.
        This nonsense infuriates me, for one reason. Among the articles about history, which are often very interesting, which I read with pleasure on this site, for some reason there are such scribbles written by an illiterate fascist.
        And instead of telling me what to read, you'd better bring scientific evidence of this nonsense (otherwise the "author" did not bother with this again, apparently it is such a scientific value that everyone should take his word for it), if you undertake to protect it.
        1. +3
          5 January 2018 22: 05
          Quote: Cherkashin Ivan
          it would be better if they brought scientific evidence of this nonsense

          Somehow you easily insult the author, calling him hard and obviously not grateful work with the insulting word "nonsense." Are you an active specialist in this field of scientific research to insult people like that? The article is large and long, illuminates numerous, still poorly lit even in specials. literature questions and is based on the truly latest achievements of this scientific direction. So try to clarify what kind of ambiguities you had while reading this material. Please note that achievements in various fields of science are collected here, so any random person is not able to answer absolutely all kinds of questions, so the questions must be correctly formulated. It is generally believed that a well-formulated question should already be half the answer, but there are exceptions. So at first, realize that it seemed to you that it was not reliable, after which it will already be possible to formulate an intelligible question. Flag in your hands, torment.
          1. +2
            5 January 2018 22: 17
            I call this nonsense because a person is trying to reverse the whole idea of ​​history, only on the grounds that he does not like it. And most importantly, it does this based on their fantasies, and not on a scientific basis.
            As for the question. Well, let's start with the easy. Where did the figure of 40-45 thousand years of the history of "Rus" come from? Only about genetics is not necessary, in the first I will not believe, and secondly, the author used the word "ethnos" and this concept is not limited to general genetics. Where are the written sources, archaeological finds confirming the existence of some kind of "Rus" at least 20 thousand years ago?
            1. +2
              5 January 2018 22: 55
              Quote: Cherkashin Ivan
              Where did the figure of 40-45 thousand years of the history of "Rus" come from? Only about genetics is not necessary .. the author used the word "ethnos" and this concept is not limited to general genetics. Where are the written sources, archaeological finds confirming the existence of some kind of "Rus" at least 20 thousand years ago?

              Written sources? Yes, even the "Book of Veles", there the age of the Russians is determined at 21 thousand years. Archaeological finds? Look at the pantheon of Russian Gods, the goddess Makosh - her age is determined differently, from 30 to 100 thousand years. And why did it suddenly turn out to be in the margins of genic? Personally, I personally do not 100% trust any research, but it just talks about the age from 24 to 60 thousand years. And written sources, so they only remained on the rocks - it’s difficult to determine age there, by indirect signs (the depth of the find) there are 160 thousand years, maybe there are more, just proving really difficult. The fact that the author took the figures of 40 - 45 thousand years, so he thoroughly reinsured himself, the fact is that this age is more often indicated by finds on the Great Russian Plain, and they have already accumulated a lot, and by race they really belong to the ancestors of the Rus or Rus. There, the problem is in the frequency of the discovered finds, but there are already quite a lot of finds by this age. I don’t know whether it is necessary to give links, there are really a lot of them, the one who deals with this issue is regularly covered more in recent events (finds), there is a more general analysis on this issue, only for today he is not very interesting for me, there is a lot of new data that more to be realized. In general, the question itself raised by the author is quite interesting, I advise you to understand it in more detail, I hope it will be both interesting and informative, it is usually necessary for general development.
              1. +4
                5 January 2018 23: 17
                After mentioning the “Book of Veles” one could no longer read, but I made an effort on myself. Seriously, the book of Veles? These are the slaughterhouse at the level of the Protocols of the Zion of the Sages. Is this your link?)))
                And about genetics, well, you should at least use Wikipedia (I don’t even hope for a dictionary). I gave a hint, the word "ethnos", superenos Russ. So, in order to attribute a population of people to one ethnic group, it is not enough to establish the similarity of their genes. Culture, language, religion, traditions, etc. etc. Where is the evidence that for 40 thousand years people spoke a language even remotely reminiscent of ours, that they had a pantheon of gods at least at the level of the 8-9th century, that they generally led a sedentary lifestyle.
                What are the findings on the Russian plain? The remains of the settlement, pots, household items? What is this talking about? What did people live here? Even if you find similar DNA sequences in them and it doesn’t mean anything.
                2-3% of genes were found in Caucasians, so do you belong to the superNADDetnos of Neanderthal Rus?
                In general, do not bother to answer, after your enchanting reference to such "written sources" (you would have mentioned the letter of Anna Yaroslavovna), I see no reason to argue with you.
                1. +2
                  5 January 2018 23: 32
                  Quote: Cherkashin Ivan
                  After mentioning the “Book of Veles” one could no longer read,

                  Well, in vain they read! Do you have more serious sources of information? Call, we will laugh together and together. Yes, about the non-Ardentals: the weight of their brains is much higher than the brain weight of a modern person, and they seem to have disappeared only 6 thousand years ago or less, by the way, there are still ordinary people who also have reports. And your level of knowledge already amazes me thoroughly: And who built the Chinese pyramids, by the way and when? I think that it’s useless for me to explain anything to you, I know such a deep form of zombies, there are a lot of works and the cat wept. So live in your own or someone else's dreams, there you and the road.
                  1. +8
                    5 January 2018 23: 48
                    I have more serious sources of information of course. This is called historical science. Zombies, is to read and listen to people who have devoted their whole lives to the study of this science? Yes, then I'm zombied and proud of it. If your freedom is to believe the delirium of people who are not experts in this field, who do not base their creations on facts or refer to obvious fakes, then I saw such freedom in a coffin.
                    Drobyshevsky said everything about the Neanderthals, but who he is is just a candidate of biological sciences. This is not an author who publishes on Rouen.
                    And reports of Neanderthals from which chamber come?
                    Chinese pyramids? Aw, dear, what are you talking about? why this question, taking into account the topic of our ... hmm dispute?
                    Thank you for allowing me to live in my cozy world of science and facts. And then I was afraid that you would incite Fomenko or the author of the article on me and they would remove 80% of my brain so that I could join your friendly company.
                    1. +7
                      6 January 2018 00: 13
                      Cherkashin Ivan! I want to give you friendly advice. Do not waste energy and time discussing with this opponent. The voice of reason is powerless in this case.
                    2. +2
                      6 January 2018 02: 32
                      Quote: Cherkashin Ivan
                      I'm zombied and proud of it. ..
                      Chinese pyramids? Aw, dear, what are you talking about? why this question ..

                      Thank you for your sincere recognition, here another freak joined you, apparently also from not full-fledged ones. And as for the Chinese Pyramids - my question is to the point, something neither the "Chinese" themselves nor anyone else is pedaling this topic. All this is not casual, oh not casual ..!
                      1. +2
                        6 January 2018 06: 11
                        Because they did not build them, that’s not for nothing.
          2. +7
            5 January 2018 22: 18
            And yet, you are hinting at my ignorance. I have a counter question, do you or the author have a degree in history?
            1. +3
              6 January 2018 01: 06
              Of course there is only alternative history. Now this is not a problem. I personally know one professor of medical and mathematical sciences .... he has a diploma. By the way, it’s inexpensive.
            2. 0
              6 January 2018 08: 07
              How do you see her? Not a degree?
  46. +2
    5 January 2018 21: 04
    The author made a cocktail of reliable and proven facts and nonsense. The sequence in his article is not observed. Probably wanted to please everyone. Did not work out.
  47. +4
    5 January 2018 21: 41
    Oh, thanks! Two hours of laughter! Continuous ... Both because of these descendants of the Scythian Siberian Rus, and from the wit of their opponents, to whom I consider myself ....
  48. 0
    5 January 2018 23: 38
    You FELLOWS with the filing of the Americans have planted a "delay", and you ... fools have captured the bait. Justify, prove. Who ??? Who are you making excuses ??? Before lackeys. ???
    1. +1
      6 January 2018 13: 03
      And who told you that ... ki live only in Ukraine? There are many more in Russia in proportion to the population.
  49. +3
    5 January 2018 23: 46
    The real battle here in VO erupted on the topic of historical truth. My comment for the 400th exceeded! Many have forgotten here that the story as a corrupt girl - whoever uses it, orders the script. And in Russia and in Russia, all sorts of foreigners still worked hard to destroy our history and write different versions, while they also tried themselves as storytellers. As a result, we have not history, but a stub that is just beginning from the baptism of Russia, and there everything is turned over upside down. Notably foreigners tried. Therefore, such a mess in the head.
    1. +2
      6 January 2018 01: 09
      please tell me specifically what the GERMANS rewrote our history.
      1. +2
        6 January 2018 02: 37
        Quote: Long in stock.
        .. which specifically GERMANS rewrote our story

        Those same "Germans" who hatched from under the palm trees. Look at them all closely, immediately in the head everything will fall into place.
        1. +1
          6 January 2018 09: 35
          so I want to hear from you their names .. that would put them in my head ..
      2. +2
        6 January 2018 08: 39
        Oh damn! And I was wondering where Venya operates with numbers in 60-120 thousand years, when the Cro-Magnon genome is about fifty. And he considers us Germans, who have climbed down from palm trees, considers! He himself, like all true Wends, considers himself a Neanderthal. Everything, you can write a statement to the prosecutor, article 282 of the Criminal Code. And everyone is worried: what to do with Veny. If there was a Neanderthal - there’s an article!
        1. +2
          6 January 2018 09: 34
          Listen, he can be the last Neanderthal man on earth. And you are his prisoner .. We are Cro-Magnes humane subspecies ..
          1. +2
            6 January 2018 11: 33
            And where is it? To the zoo? So the general people will expand. To the fool? There is a line from local folk historians. And on the zone - it is. He sits to himself, scribbles mittens and “muffs” in the ECHR, such as: “Free Winnie - 3”. There is such a film and, symbolically, also about the orc. True, if he also talks to them through the lip ..... Mmmda. And then I’m not a monster, I don’t propose to roll him up in the Black Swan.
            1. +2
              6 January 2018 12: 41
              it seems to me that everything is easier .. he needs to find a girl ... if he spends at least half of his ardor on her, she will be happy .. and this is not sarcasm, this is the truth of life ..
              1. 0
                6 January 2018 13: 31
                Yes, you are a romantic, unlike the Doctor!
                1. 0
                  6 January 2018 17: 23
                  And, did I propose to do something with him? I did not write about antipsychotics.
              2. 0
                6 January 2018 14: 33
                And if he’s not quite him, but what about her? Anything can happen on the Internet.
                1. +1
                  6 January 2018 18: 24
                  everything can be .. now everything is so confused .. you give a place to a lady but it turns out this is not a lady .. imagine that I felt at that moment ..
                  1. +1
                    6 January 2018 18: 32
                    I’m not, but an acquaintance in paints described to me how he met a lady in a Thai bar)) and almost took him to a hotel ....
      3. +1
        6 January 2018 21: 07
        Quote: Long in stock.
        please tell me which specific GERMANS rewrote our history

        Long in stock - did you get out of the New Year's drinking bout? Where did you find my word "Germans"? Yes, the Germans were not a little mischief among us: Miller, Bayer, Schlötzer, etc. Read about Lomonosov and his struggle against the dominance of foreigners in Russian historical society.
        1. +1
          7 January 2018 12: 48
          binge just in your diocese. I certainly understand that you have no idea that the German nation was formed only in the middle of the 19th century ... so you take the names indicated by you and find out who they are from the nation ... that's why people like you scammers. their knowledge is zero, but aplomb ... you didn’t even read about Lomonosov’s struggle with foreigners. More precisely, you wrote that you wrote a few words with the company .. and neither knowledge nor common sense ..
  50. +2
    6 January 2018 00: 07
    Cat,
    The words "accountant" and "accountant" are not anonymous and cannot replace one another, just like Yezersky did not try.
  51. +5
    6 January 2018 02: 22
    Historians do not invent events, but reconstruct them from written sources and archaeological excavations. They compare different sources and identify the truth or approximate truth. There are always references in their works that you can check. Completely falsifying history is problematic.
    "late Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world, heirs of Great Scythia, the Aryan and Boreal world. Hundreds of powerful clans united by language" - where does this come from? Out of nowhere. Dreamers, of which there are many, talk all sorts of nonsense.
    1. +3
      6 January 2018 02: 53
      Quote: Falcon5555
      Historians do not invent events, but reconstruct them from written sources and archaeological excavations. They compare different sources and identify the truth or approximate truth. There are always references in their works that you can check. Completely falsifying history is problematic.

      So if you can check and double-check, then, in this case, try to double-check at least something. Those who really decided to double-check were stunned with horror (even fatal cases are known). Everything, absolutely everything is based on fake documents, the originals are either non-existent or not yet available. What about: "Completely falsifying history is problematic." - To remind you that what cannot be done for money can be done for a lot of money, and what cannot be done for a lot of money can be done with incredibly, deadly enormous amounts of money - hence some amazing deaths in the workplace. Maybe about you haven’t heard anything yet, so not everything that is problematic is not possible, in our World everything is possible, absolutely everything, it’s just that you have not yet been able to personally meet with it, hence your not very far-sighted and not very competent conclusions.
      1. +4
        6 January 2018 14: 34
        So if you can check and double-check, then, in this case, try to double-check at least something.
        Don't tell me what to do and I won't tell you where to go.
        deadly huge amount of money - hence some surprising workplace deaths.
        How much is this? How is that? Did you just die from money? belay Sad, sad. But, as people say, don’t teach me how to live, but rather give me money. laughing
  52. +5
    6 January 2018 06: 21
    venaya,
    Quote: venaya
    residents of the pale camp (Palestine now) should have

    Venya, tell me, as a linguist to a linguist, what exactly was the pale? lol
    1. +2
      6 January 2018 08: 50
      Yes, it’s all already, I set Venya on fire, the Neanderthal bastard, now it won’t wash off!
    2. +3
      6 January 2018 09: 30
      Venino PALEVO is that HE BURNED..... At his part-time job at his "center that organizes all revolutions...."
    3. +1
      6 January 2018 14: 38
      What exactly was the flaw? Did you find the package? laughing
  53. +16
    6 January 2018 07: 52
    It was a terrible thing - the Mongol-Tatar IGO
    Historical Fact
    In general, it’s a pity that only one unit of the XII Lightning Legion reached the Caspian Sea laughing
    hi
  54. +2
    6 January 2018 09: 12
    venaya,
    After the fawn camp I will definitely study it...just for this sake...
  55. The comment was deleted.
  56. +5
    6 January 2018 11: 12
    The Russian superethnos (Rus) has existed since the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet

    I did not read further))
  57. +7
    6 January 2018 11: 21
    ,,When a hyena wants to eat her offspring, it seems to her that it smells like a baby goat! (The wisdom of African cooks). Translated into Russian - “Your only fault is that I want to eat!” Someone really needed to “eat”, ,Mongol yoke,,! And someone zealously took up the task of fulfilling the “order” for a “moderate fee”! Nothing personal! Business is business... an order is an order! But... what kind of “patla” needed it and why? Have you, the “deniers,” even thought for once that in this case a huge historical layer related to the history of Russia is being “erased out”?
    1. +4
      6 January 2018 16: 50
      PS I am forced to repeat my comment to the previous opus of the “refutators”:
      There is a tricky position! Previously, they looked at the "Mongol yoke" point blank and saw through it! And now, for some reason, they sharply turned to the "yoke" with ... short shorts and, "naturally", stopped seeing him! Well, indeed they say (turning ........... "back" to the "yoke"): we do not see the "yoke", and therefore it does not exist and was not! And for what reason? Who decided to please? Who lick ........? Maybe due to the fact that the local "Honduras" ... (I mean ... Tatarstan!) Became very disturbed? But did he (Tatarstan!) Need this? Not sure! But, if you decide to cancel the "Tatar-Mongol yoke", then this is someone / for some reason "nuno"? To whom to lick ... to whom "nuno" ..... ich verstehe nicht! Well, they didn’t find an “autograph” carved on the “highest” rock ... carved on the “highest” oak: Genghis Khan was here .... and now what? The yoke wasn’t blame? Are there also indirect “autographs” of autographs? evidence ... for example, the state of the arts. crafts (like ... the state of the then "technology"). So !!! Archaeological finds (excavations) show: the quality of crafts in Russia fell sharply in that historical period, which is attributed to the "Mongol yoke "! Due to the Mongol invasion, many skilled craftsmen were taken to" full "... As a result: the" surge "is high the quality of crafts in the Golden Horde; and the decline in the quality of crafts in Russia! This "affected" not only "ironwork", jewelry, weaving, embroidery, etc., but also architecture. Analysis of temples built in the "pre-Mongol" period and the "Mongolian" "discovers a significant difference in the quality of construction. Temples built in the" pre-Mongolian "period-lepota (!) ... built in the" Mongolian ... "- hack work! It was during the" Mongolian "period that the growth of cities stopped, the references to it fell out for a long time dozens of cities, mention of 15 cities, in general, Kanu and in "the abyss"! The development of new arable lands has been reduced. This is reflected in archaeological documents ... look and find! And then you will not need the false conclusions of the "lousy prohvesorov"!
  58. +9
    6 January 2018 11: 27
    I wonder how long this nonsense will appear on the pages of a respected publication? Maybe it’s worth introducing a section “anti-science fiction” for Samsonov?
    1. +9
      6 January 2018 12: 43
      There are some very good works among alternative science fiction writers. Samsons won’t get through there - it’s too weak.
      1. +8
        6 January 2018 15: 36
        Truly I tell you, brothers Slavs, Russo-Aryans, and so on, and so on, and so on! Great news to you from Siberia, from the Altai Mountains (or rather the foothills). On the first day of January of the month, we, the Russo-Aryans, were intoxicated because we drank a lot, and went out in a herd into the fresh (and I must say frosty) air, as if on business.... And while doing the job, we melted the snow and under it we found an ancient stone slab with Aryan inscriptions, patristic and we saw the prediction!!!! It is said there that a prophet will rise in the last days and lead us from the fabulous past through the gray present to the psychedelic future. And his name is Dream Himself, in honor of the dream of the gods, and not some Semitic Samson, who most likely did not exist - in any case, there is nothing about him in the Book of Veles! Hail, our psychedelic Dream itself! Our Aryan Hallelujah for you!
        1. +5
          6 January 2018 18: 28
          bows from the waist were forgotten three times... because the said Aryan hallelujah is always threefold. Otherwise it has no power and you will not see an enlightened future..
  59. +7
    6 January 2018 15: 20
    Lots of comments, I forgot why I came.. laughing
    Oh yes. The Great Triangle of the Peoples of Korea, China and Japan.
    So they had a whole period of struggle with the Mongol invaders.
    Establishing their power over China, the Mongol conquerors left the administrative apparatus operating in the Song Empire almost completely intact. The Mongols only slightly modified the administrative zoning of the country, dividing it into 10 regions. There were principalities in Rus', so they left the division as it was.
    Although the apparatus of government remained the same, it was largely taken out of Chinese hands. At the same time, the Mongols retained all military positions; as for the civil apparatus, it was staffed primarily by representatives of various peoples of Central and Western Asia. They were trusted even with major posts in the state, right up to the highest. The privileged position in which these immigrants from Central and Western Asia were placed attracted a large number of foreign populations to China, among whom were many artisans, craftsmen and artists. For example, Aniko, a Nepalese sculptor and builder who became famous for the construction of the “Golden Pagoda” in Tibet, moved to China in 1261 and supervised construction work at the Mongol court. Such masters had a great influence on the building art of China. On the other hand, the Mongolian rulers sent the Chinese to Central Asia and Iran to service the administrative apparatus of these countries. Thus, the tactics of the Mongol conquerors was to rely mainly on elements foreign to that country in the administration of each of the conquered countries.
    Doesn't remind you of anything? Let's move on
    The lands of Buddhist temples and monasteries, as before, were not subject to tax. This circumstance continued to serve as a well-known bait for Chinese peasants, who transferred themselves and their plots under the patronage of church feudal lords in the hope of relatively less exploitation. But the monasteries themselves sought to seize land holdings. The growth of monastic land ownership reached such proportions that it forced the Mongol government in 1327 to prohibit monasteries from buying land from the population.
    Similarities with the church in Rus'? Same growth at MIT? Same. The explanation of the fact is above.
    Korea
    Choi Chhun Heng is one of the largest feudal lords. Unable to cope with the Khitans himself, he turned to the Mongols for help. Genghis Khan decided to take advantage of the opportunity and sent his troops to the peninsula. Mongol troops quickly defeated the Khitan (Khitan state of Liao), but the “help” cost the Korean people dearly; from that moment on, the intervention of Mongolian feudal lords in the internal affairs of the Korean state began.
    The Goryeo kings were considered vassals of the Jin rulers, and the Mongols therefore viewed the Goryeo kingdom as one of the Jurchen domains. The pretext for sending Mongol troops to the peninsula was the murder in 1231 of the Mongol ambassador on the way from Goryeo to Mongolia. The Mongols declared the rulers of Goryeo to be the perpetrators of the murder and sent an army to the peninsula under the command of Saritai. Mongol troops invaded Korea and subjected its northern part to devastation. Choi Wu, who ruled Korea (like his father Choi Chung Heng), fled with the king from the capital and took refuge in a fortress on the island of Ganghwado. The rulers of Korea were unable to repel the onslaught of the Mongols, and they had to pay off the Mongols with a large tribute. The Mongol feudal lords, however, did not abandon the idea of ​​complete subjugation of the peninsula. Over the next two decades, their troops invaded Korea four times. In 1259, the last ruler of the Tsoi clan was killed, the fortress on Ganghwado Island was destroyed, and the heir to the royal throne was taken to Mongolia as a hostage. When the king of Korea died, his son returned there, took the throne and, recognizing himself as a vassal of the great khan, gave the entire country under the rule of the Mongols.
    There are similarities too.
    And the Japanese also killed the Khan’s ambassadors. They prepared for war, they were saved twice by a typhoon and they won a naval victory off Kyusi, equal to the typhoon.
    So in Asia they don’t deny the Mongols. In the SA too, in Europe too... but Samsonov denies it.
    1. +6
      6 January 2018 18: 30
      because Samsonov doesn’t know Korean or Japanese... so the Asians are very lucky...
    2. +3
      6 January 2018 21: 46
      But the Germans didn’t get there. That's why their history wasn't rewritten for them! And they wrote it down for us so that they knew their place. And now they were caught red-handed. The truth was revealed and they were taken by the hand. All the machinations of the Germans, the British and the Vatican.
      1. +4
        6 January 2018 21: 55
        The British have reached there! I saw it in the movie "Shogun"! And the Dutch, and the Dutch are the same as Germans! Here.
      2. +2
        7 January 2018 12: 50
        how so? you are mistaken...as is known from the same unscientific circles, the history of China was rewritten by the Jesuits...so the scientists again hid everything from the people...
        1. +2
          7 January 2018 14: 19
          In general, then, are these all Japanese-Korean-Chinese fairy tales? laughing
          Asians lie - I understood right away, and they squint as if they don’t understand Russian.
  60. +3
    6 January 2018 17: 05
    "The sleep of reason gives birth to monsters.."
  61. +8
    6 January 2018 17: 16
    I am also tormented by doubts about the Tatar-Mongol yoke, but the author studied the history from advertising on toilet paper, it seems laughing
  62. +8
    6 January 2018 22: 02
    The Russian superethnos (Rus) has existed since the very beginning of the appearance of the white race on the planet; our history is at least 40 - 45 thousand years old. However, the true history of Rus' and the superethnos was “cut off” and distorted in the interests of the masters of the West and their lackeys-slaves in Russia, who wanted to become part of the “world civilized community” at any cost, at least at the cost of surrendering their homeland.

    Hand face. I didn't read further. The author received a gasoline injection in the head.
    1. +7
      7 January 2018 21: 48
      Quote: Mikhail_Zverev
      The author received a gasoline injection in the head.

      Do you think it neutralizes the urine circulating there?
      1. +2
        8 January 2018 00: 13
        I don’t know, but we all need to do something about this?
      2. +3
        8 January 2018 07: 00
        This will complicate the situation even more.... And we risk hearing something even more incredible, from which the heavens will collapse and Tengeri will strike us all for allowing this to happen
        1. +3
          8 January 2018 21: 06
          Quote: Dzungar
          This will complicate the situation even more....

          Mmmm... I was thinking and I remembered, from the experience of my ancestors:
          Stirlitz gave the dog gasoline to drink. The dog ran about 10 meters and fell.
          - Gasoline has run out; Stirlitz guessed it.

          Maybe it's still worth a try?
          1. +1
            10 January 2018 06: 31
            You can try.....
  63. +2
    6 January 2018 23: 37
    avva2012,
    To do this, first of all, we need to understand how to neutralize all the poison that has been poured and continues to be poured into people’s heads for 26 years. By the way, our site does not remain aloof from irrigation works and receives a decent harvest. Just look at the News, Opinions, Analytics sections and read the comments. The result is immediately visible.
    1. +2
      7 January 2018 04: 22
      Undoubtedly, Viktor Nikolaevich, it is necessary. But this requires sincere understanding and desire, of you, me, and those around you. As they say, “Save yourself and thousands around you will be saved”? If you change yourself, you change the reality around you. Slowly, imperceptibly, but inevitably.
      By the way, our site does not remain aloof from irrigation works and receives a decent harvest.

      I have always been amazed by German anti-fascists. They lived inside the waterfall, and what we see is drizzle.
  64. +2
    7 January 2018 01: 09
    damn, what the hell is this?
  65. +8
    7 January 2018 08: 22
    Another amnesty in the madhouse? There is simply no other way to explain this amount of nonsense. But I can give the author one more idea: the Russians appeared 40-45 thousand years ago for a reason, but flew to Earth from the North Star. And they are direct descendants of the Heavenly Gods. They conquered the local Neanderthal aborigines, for which they have been taking revenge on them from their Rome for several millennia.
  66. +2
    7 January 2018 10: 39
    Gentlemen, happy holidays to all to begin with) With your permission, I will express my point of view. I won't take anyone's side. I will stick to my opinion. But I think that this material is useful because it forces us to enter into discussions (the truth is born in a dispute), arouses interest in our history. And it will force someone to look into books once again. And this is already good.
    1. +1
      8 January 2018 18: 50
      Truth is born in a dispute between normal people. When everyone asks a question knowing half the answer. Where the deaf argues with the blind, truth will never be born!
  67. +7
    7 January 2018 11: 09
    If in the first part of this ..... "work" we replace the Rus with Ukrov, we could sell the Ukroslavs to the censor. It’s a pity that there is nothing about manual digging of Lake Baikal
  68. +6
    7 January 2018 12: 54
    The Mongols marched from China to the Mediterranean Sea and defeated a couple of dozen strong
    centralized states. And not just Russian principalities.
    Many of these states fell into long-term vassalage to the Genghisid Empire.
    And in all these states, archaeologists and historians have found
    tons of artifacts, documents in many languages, excavations confirming the invasion.
    But only in Russia do they begin to come up with “conspiracies of pro-Western historians” and “myths”.
    1. +4
      7 January 2018 13: 43
      This is a sign of the democracy of our political regime - even crazy people are given the right to speak out, regardless of the severity of the diagnosis. This is the apotheosis of democracy!!!! Our glorious artist (Lucifer himself really knows whether he can draw or not) under our bloody regime nailed his loins to the pavement, pretended to be a hybrid of a hedgehog and a boa constrictor, and cut his ear. The FSB even set fire to the doors. And then he served a little time for arson - and again he was on horseback! And then he left for democratic France after having sexual acts of a violent nature (even for a great artist this is too much), fooled around a bit with gasoline, and now he’s out of his mind! Glory to our democracy, the most democratic in the Universe! And the rest (to quote famous philosophers) - silently envy))))))))
    2. +3
      7 January 2018 14: 25
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Russian principalities.

      somehow it hurts the eyes (I can’t understand why, some will say because of the flag, others that it was laughing )
      Quote: voyaka uh
      But only in Russia do they begin to come up with “conspiracies of pro-Western historians” and “myths”.

      We also have this, only Moscow/SP always appears there.
      The article is usual for Samsonov. Already a household name in VO.
      No one denies the Mongols. But at VO (and not only) they now often begin to deny and even “appropriate the Mongols”
      1. +3
        7 January 2018 15: 35
        I probably expressed myself incorrectly. You could say "Kievan Rus"
        or "Kievan-Vladimir Rus", but the term is definitely not
        like it sad . This Rus' was at that time a very developed state,
        not inferior to Western Europe. For example, mass popular
        literacy in Novgorod good .
        The Mongol invasion and vassalage seriously weakened it.
        But also to other states from the Chinese kingdoms to Hungary and Croatia
        got it for nuts.
    3. +1
      7 January 2018 17: 10
      Quote: voyaka uh

      But only in Russia do they begin to come up with “conspiracies of pro-Western historians” and “myths”.
      Well, alas, we are not unique here, such phenomena are widespread throughout the entire earth’s plane, here you have ZOG, and reptilians in all seriousness, and “xxx they couldn’t build uuu, they are too primitive for that,” the authorities are hiding, official science is hiding , The Vatican is hiding that all languages ​​originated from /name your language/, one thing is certainly clear: the Jews are involved here in any case.
    4. +1
      7 January 2018 20: 01
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The Mongols walked from China to the Mediterranean Sea and defeated a couple of dozen strong
      centralized states.
      And in all these states, archaeologists and historians have found
      tons of artifacts, documents in many languages, excavations confirming invasion.
      But only in Russia do they begin to come up with “conspiracies of pro-Western historians” and “myths”.

      He who seeks will always “find”! In this case, what is most important is how much exactly they will pay for it. Maybe this is where the fake “evidence” base comes fromStalin's attack on Hitler"? Haven't we all read about this? By the way, you can refer to some document (naturally not in Chinese characters) confirming the existence of not only a nation (or rather a people) under the name "Mongol"before the XNUMXth century. Why is there still no news about this[/b]? Yes, the term “Mongol”, invented in 1817, has been discovered, but no other reports have yet been received. The truth really existed "[b]Empire of the Great Mogul", but the difference between the modern Mongol and the Moguls of that time is striking. Isn’t this noticeable yet? By the way, there are indeed reports about the presence of the Mughals, the Mogul Empire and the Mogul Empire (state), they even write about Mogulistan, but about Mongolistan and similar Mongol names so far -no. So today, artifacts and existing non-falsified documents are in no way possible to attach either to modern Mongols, but in general to the Mongoloids, in no way. So I think that those who seriously question the connection of the Mongoloids to this military tour are right. Times But now they are already different, public awareness has increased significantly and the old fairy tales no longer stand. It’s time to come up with something more plausible, truly based on documents and more in-depth research, otherwise the devil knows who (like Svidomites) are calling Russians (Russians, Russians) names either the Mongols, or the Finno-Ugric people, all the time trying to get something, something significant out of it.Hence, the residents of the Russian Federation have a special attitude towards this historical problem, which, in the current situation, is not at all surprising but quite natural. I hope that I have clearly explained the essence of the issue and the problems that arise.
      1. +6
        7 January 2018 22: 24
        Quote: venaya
        By the way, you can refer to any document (naturally not in Chinese characters) confirming the existence of not only a nation (or rather a people) under the name “Mongol” before the XNUMXth century.

        What do you like about the “Secret Legend of the Mongol” written in X||| V. in Chinese characters, but in Mongolian, doesn’t suit you?
        For example: from the moment of the Arab conquest until 1929, the Uzbeks used Arabic script. From 1929 to 1940 - Latin. From 1940 to 1993 - Cyrillic. Since 1993, in a fit of independence, they switched back to the Latin alphabet.
        Question:
        Does it follow from this that the Uzbek language, Uzbeks, and Uzbek literature do not exist and have never existed in nature? lol
    5. +3
      7 January 2018 20: 37
      Quote: voyaka uh
      But only in Russia do they begin to come up with “conspiracies of pro-Western historians” and “myths”.

      The problem here is that someone wants everyone in Russia to quarrel and fight on this basis, both Russians among themselves and the peoples of Russia among themselves, and the fact that these aspirations, and accordingly actions in the form of such articles, have fallen on fertile ground in the person of fools of the “great power” chauvinist-nationalist orientation
  69. The comment was deleted.
  70. +3
    7 January 2018 13: 45
    The author of the article showed amazing ignorance. I only agree that there was no Mongol-Tatar yoke. The author’s assertions that no traces of Mongoloids were found in the Russian genome are not without truth, since if there were Mongols in the Golden Horde, they were negligible. The basis of the army was made up of Turkic peoples, the same Tatars..., and the saying - rub any Russian, you will see a Tatar.... I think everyone knows. So the author was looking for the wrong genes in the genome)).
    Further,...the article says that the way of life, the level of development of the ethnic group that gave birth to Genghis Khan, Batu, did not allow them to achieve the power to subjugate the vast territories of Eurasia. But what then to do with the facts of the fall of Byzantium under the blows of the Turks, or the sudden emergence of the Arab Caliphate? The same tribal customs and way of life of nationalities at the start of the birth of empires. If I were the author, I would be embarrassed to make such far-reaching statements, and would advise you to familiarize yourself with the works of L.N. Gumilyov.
    And the pearl “Scythos-Siberian Russes” is absolutely not worth it! Hmmm, I guess I’ll end here...
    1. +5
      7 January 2018 19: 22
      and the saying - rub any Russian, you will see a Tatar.... I think everyone knows
      But I don’t know. Was. I scoured the internet and came up with:

      https://www.politforums.net/other/1246229866.html

      The expression “Scratch a Russian and you will find a Tatar” came to us from the French language, and in the original it sounds like this: “Grattez le Russe, et vous verrez un Tartare.” There this saying is also very popular, so much so that the authorship has not yet been accurately established; this catchphrase was attributed to various historical figures: Joseph de Maistre, Napoleon I, Prince de Ligne, etc.

      But the meaning put into this saying by the French is very specific and completely different.

      In fact, the phrase about the Russian and the Tatar is just a short version of the famous quote from the famous essay "La Russie en 1839". The same one that was given to the world by the famous marquis, freemason and pederast Astolphe de Custine. For those who haven’t read it, let me remind you that the book “Russia in 1839” still retains the title of “the bible of Russophobes.” Well, Custine speaks, naturally, about his own, about his obsession. This is how his thesis sounds in expanded form:

      “After all, a little over a hundred years ago they were real Tatars. And under the external gloss of European elegance, most of these upstarts of civilizations have preserved the bear's skin - they just put it inside with fur. But it’s enough to scrape them a little - and you will see how the wool crawls out and puffs. ”
      It is as a kind of quintessence, a kind of distillation of Russophobia, that our European educated classics loved to quote the phrase “Scratch a Russian and you will find a Tatar.” In particular, Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky often sinned with this, exposing the machinations of evil Europeans - both in the “Diary of a Writer” and in “The Teenager”... It was from their writings that this aphorism went to the people...

      From my discussion with the famous network banderlog, who attributed the phrase about the Tatar to Turgenev:

      This is a very common technique in theoretical Russophobia. Brought to complete perfection by the shitty Shtepa. The name of some great Russian is taken, and then a suitable quote is inserted into him. “As the Russian classic Turgenev said (Tolstoy, Gorbachev, Khryun Morzhov...) all Russians / here was the name of an animal with horns and a beard, which says meee, but the filter of this site does not like these animals, and I’ll probably remove the rest of the terms myself, otherwise you never know - Falcon5555/.” End of quote. Why, you don’t agree to admit that you are dung /from zoology/? What a shame, because the great Hryun Morzhov himself said this! Fall on your face, you insignificant ones! After all, Hryun Morzhov himself! etc. and so on.

      Not without pleasure, I conducted an online investigation on the topic “who said “meow”, in the sense of which classic the phrase about scratching a Russian belongs to. Turgenev found himself in good company:

      \"Scratch a Russian and you will find a Tatar\" (Karamzin)

      It was not for nothing that the great Russian writer N.S. Leskov said that if you scratch a Russian, you will find a Tatar.

      And when Dostoevsky wrote: \"Scratch any Russian and you will see a Tatar\"

      A.S. himself Pushkin said - Scratch a Russian and you will find a Tatar

      As Klyuchevsky used to say, scratch a Russian and you will see a Tatar

      Scratch a Russian and you will find a Tatar (as in Shestov).

      Ivan Bunin's remark - if you scratch any Russian, you will find a Tatar

      Scratch any Russian - you will scrape off a Tatar, Gogol said

      It’s, as Kuprin said, scratch any Russian, you’ll get a Tatar

      paraphrasing the statement of V.V. Rozanov (\"Scratch any Russian, and you will find a Tatar\"),

      \"Scratch any Russian, you will find a Tatar,\" President Vladimir Putin said not so long ago.

      This is an arctic fox. Complete and comprehensive. Soon there will not be a single Russian classic who will not be credited with the authorship of this nasty and bad phrase. For - Hryun Morzhov himself, no big deal!

      Here is an enlightened European opinion about the Tatars:

      \"The Tatars surpass us not only in abstinence and prudence, but also in love for one's neighbor...

      Many sites attribute this quote to Napoleon. However, why is it necessary to quote this loser and defeated enemy? He invaded Russia without having any idea of ​​its geography and scale. He was defeated. What does it matter to anyone that he deigned to talk about the winners?

      In St. Petersburg, the idea of ​​rubbing/scratching a Russian leads to a different result - you will find a Jew, a German, a Karelian, a Vepsian, an Izhorian, a Latvian, a Moldavian, a Ukrainian (if this is a separate nation, and not a place of birth, opinions differ laughing ) etc. There are almost no Tatars! And those compatriots who do not sit in the Kremlin for 20 years, but go out into the streets, know that in 50-100 years it will be different - rub/scratch a Russian and you will see a Tajik. sad

      PS: With all due respect to representatives of all the above-mentioned nations.
  71. +4
    7 January 2018 16: 51
    I read EVERYTHING!!! Including comments!!! I came to the following conclusion: Ilya Muromets, Dobrynya Nikitich and Alyosha Popovich - protected the entire globe, periodically weighing down all kinds of dragons (Chinese -?), gorillas (residents of continental Africa -?), Atlanteans (sea king -?) and others who came across them on the way (sometimes not at all by chance). Oh yes, they also never touched the aborigines they protected. Ugh, I haven’t read or heard of such fairy tales since childhood... good
  72. +1
    7 January 2018 17: 31
    About 3-4 years ago, Russian official historians excluded the Mongols from the conquerors of Rus'. It was an invasion of the Turks. And that’s the end point in this story.
    1. +5
      7 January 2018 18: 58
      Quote: Anton Yu
      About 3-4 years ago, Russian official historians excluded the Mongols from the conquerors of Rus'. It was an invasion of the Turks. And that’s the end point in this story.

      Was there a meeting? Vote? Is there a protocol with a list of participants, questions posed and decisions made, and the number of voters?
      I don't know anything about this. Do you want me to tell you why? Because such a meeting did not exist and could not exist. I repeat once again - scientists are not a political party, they do not vote on what is right or wrong and do not proclaim an official course that must be followed if you want to consider yourself a scientist. They constantly argue, debate, intrigue, mock each other, sometimes they even hit each other in the face (I have heard of such cases), but they have always rejected the principles of democratic centralism in any form. There is no “official history” and there cannot be, just like “official historians”.
      Sorry, but you just wrote nonsense.
    2. +2
      7 January 2018 23: 25
      check before you write..otherwise you look funny..
  73. +5
    7 January 2018 19: 06
    Nevertheless, the overwhelming majority of commentators clearly lack the breadth of historical horizons and the height of coverage of the problem.
    But in fact, there were no Tatars with the Mongols. Go to the FORUM AZAT website and find out that the core of all the conquests of the empire of Genghis Khan were the Kazakhs, who ultimately ruled for hundreds of years after the death of Genghis Khan in different parts of the empire.
    Therefore, you can safely contact the UN, let Mr. Nazarbayev compensate for all the damage caused by his great ancestors.
  74. +2
    7 January 2018 19: 44
    Luga...I just forgot, poor fellow, that he bases all his conclusions on these same chronicles, the veracity of which he completely denies....[/quote]
    Bravo! hi
  75. The comment was deleted.
  76. +2
    7 January 2018 21: 38
    We were taught at school that Russian swearing is a legacy in the Russian language from the Mongol-Tatar yoke. It turns out that this is not at all true. During excavations in Novgorod from 1951 to the present, more than 1100 birch bark documents have been found, about half of which are from the so-called pre-Mongol period.
    Here is a letter (XNUMXth century) from Staraya Russa from Radoslav to Khoteslav with a request to take money from the merchant in a different handwriting, it is written: “ѧkovebrateebilezhѧ” (“Yakovebrateebilezh”). The approximate meaning of this note is “don’t be original,” “be like everyone else.”
    • Charter from Novgorod No. 955 (XII century).
    The meaning of the letter: “Marinko, Milusha is writing to you. It’s time for our friend Kosa the Great to get married. Marinko, you... (followed by a rude word starting with the letter “p”). When will you repay the debt owed to you?”

    There are even worse stories, but there is nothing about the Mongol-Tatar yoke. Russian cities are mentioned, about collecting tribute on the Swedish border, about collecting debts, there are even children's exercises on birch bark, but there is no IGO, the Novgorodians could not come up with it because they did not know that their scribbles would become known to their descendants.
    1. +3
      7 January 2018 23: 27
      funny. What school did they teach you Russian swearing at? Was it in your backyard?
    2. +2
      8 January 2018 00: 12
      That is, obscene vocabulary in birch bark documents of the pre-Mongol period proves not the fact that the version of its Mongol origin is incorrect, but that there was no Mongol invasion at all? wink By the way, “we” weren’t taught this in schools; this is generally the opinion of individual culturologists of the XNUMXth century, refuted even without literacy by the spread of related words with the same roots in other Slavic languages.

      As for the mentions of the Mongol-Tatar invasion in letters, they could hardly have appeared there for the reason that birch bark letters are mostly private letters of a business nature. Birch bark letters, as a rule, are extremely short, pragmatic, and contain only the most important information; what the author and addressee already know is naturally not mentioned in them; it is unlikely that anyone would write interesting news about politics in a business or love note, will, or order.
    3. +2
      8 January 2018 12: 51
      So Batu did not reach Novgorod. Torzhok is the last
      captured city on the road to Novgorod.
      Therefore, the Novgorodians did not suffer grief like the others.
      1. +1
        8 January 2018 16: 19
        Now, if the Tatars had reached Torzhok, this would definitely have been reflected in one of the 600 charters. Torzhok was in the sphere of Novgorod's interests. Actually, why did Marfa Posadnitsa (Boretskaya) oppose the unification of Novgorod with Moscow? It’s just that her entire estate (from Torzhok to Demyansk) became Moscow property. Birch bark letters were found in Torzhok, Tver, and Smolensk, but nowhere and nothing about the Tatars. There is a charter in the Karelian language in Novgorod, there is a charter in Old Scandinavian in Smolensk, there are records in Latin and German, but somehow we were unlucky with the Tatars.
        1. +2
          8 January 2018 17: 19
          The longest ancient Russian text on birch bark currently known, Moscow Birch Bark Charter No. 3, is an inventory of the rich estate of a certain Turabey (a name of Tatar origin), probably compiled after his death. In addition to the estate in the Kremlin, Turabey also owned land near Suzdal. http://www.archaeolog.ru/index.php?id=120
          Golden Horde birch bark charter: https://turkology.tk/media/info/Rukopis_na_berest
          e.pdf
          1. +1
            8 January 2018 18: 04
            This is not a birch bark letter, but a letter in ink on birch bark. And where is it said about the yoke?
            The birch bark documents mention different names - Russian, Scandinavian, German, but so what? If the Turkic name is made to confirm the Tatar-Mongol yoke, then our whole history will consist of some other ISIS
            1. +3
              8 January 2018 19: 00
              Quote: Yura Yakovlev
              This is not a birch bark letter, but a letter in ink on birch bark.
              1. +2
                8 January 2018 20: 43
                You could also suggest writing on the birch bark with a ballpoint pen, maybe it would be more conclusive. Everything that was written in ink is already the so-called post-Mongol period, when all this was invented
        2. +2
          9 January 2018 09: 25
          “If only the Tatars had reached Torzhok,”//////

          http://torzhok.info/istoriya-i-arxeologiya/osada-
          torzhka-1238-g/

          ...From then on, the lawless one came, and stepped off Torzhek... and from now on, everything around was covered with a backdrop, like the other city of the imah...

          ... Then the Tatars came and besieged Torzhok ... and they surrounded the whole city with mud, just like other cities took ....
          (Novgorod 1st Annals)

          About the Battle of the City River:

          “And the prince began to place the regiment near himself, and suddenly the Tatars hurried;
          The prince, without having time to do anything, ran; and I would be on the River City... and I would die with my belly.”
          (Novgorod 1st Annals)
          1. +2
            9 January 2018 09: 53
            That’s why the land of the lawless, and stepped into Torzhek for the collection of the clean week, and from now on you are all around, like the other city of the imah; and there were vices for two weeks at a time, and the people were exhausted in the city, and there would be no help for them from Novgorod, but who was already in bewilderment and passion; and so, having taken the city with abomination, and having devoured everything from male to female, the priestly rank, all and the black Riza, and everything was naked and desecrated, he gave up his soul to the Lord with a bitter and miserable death...
            Find at least one word confirming that these were Tatars.
            1. +1
              9 January 2018 14: 46
              find at least one word confirming that these were not Tatars...or do you suspect the Russian princes are filthy?
              1. +2
                9 January 2018 16: 07
                The filthy ones are in this case the enemy, the adversary. But who exactly was it? Not known. Starting from the time of Yaroslav, when, from the betrayal of his wife Irina with his childhood friend Olav, one illegitimate child, Vsevolod the Big Nest, was born, and with him a whole branch of the so-called princes who had no right to succession to the throne appeared. From that moment on, civil strife began across Rus' between the Monomashichs (Vsevolodochi) and the Olgovichs (Rurikovichs). This continued until the change of dynasties, that is, until 1612. To understand how this is connected with the Mongol-Tatar yoke, just look at the portrait of the reconstruction of Andrei Bogolyubsky carried out by Gerasimov. It is clear that the Vsevolodovichs had a Mongoloid type of face, but they were not Mongols, but by Ugrofin origin (clan group N1c1). In addition, since 1230, the situation in Rus' was aggravated by a sharp cold snap, crop failure and mass famine for ten years. Therefore, the decline in the development of the state and the growth of contradictions between the principalities is quite understandable
                1. 0
                  9 January 2018 16: 59
                  Confirmation in the previous paragraph:
                  “And the prince began to place a regiment near him, and suddenly the Tatars hurried; the prince, without having time to do anything, escaped; and on the river of the City, and died, and died with his life. God knows how he died: there is a lot of talk about a little ini. Rostov and Suzhdal parted separately. from here having arrived, taking Moscow, Pereyaslavl, Yuryev, Dmitrov, Volok. Tfer; The same son Yaroslavl killed.

                  Ottole but the place of the lawless, and having stepped into Torzhek for the gathering of the Holy Week,...”
                  Here is the text of 1NL, and by searching the page you can find other references to the Tatars: http://krotov.info/acts/12/pvl/novg07.htm
                  1. +1
                    10 January 2018 06: 34
                    Yurochka Yakovlev was blown away.....
                  2. +2
                    10 January 2018 10: 37
                    On 241 sheets. The manuscript is defective, at the very beginning there are 8 sheets missing, after l. 3 - two sheets, after l. 11 - one sheet, after l. 18 - four sheets, after l. 23 - two sheets, after l. 24 - two sheets, after l. 25 - two sheets, after l. 26 - one sheet, after l. 31 - one sheet, after l. 59 - one sheet, after l. 77 - one sheet, after l. 107 - two sheets, after l. 113 - two sheets, after l. 146 - eight sheets, after l. 150 - four sheets, after l. 154 - two sheets, after l. 162 - one sheet, after l. 175 - four sheets, after l. 189 - one sheet, after l. 211 - two sheets, after l. 217 - one sheet, after l. 241 at the end of the manuscript three more leaves are lost. The list text ends at l. 241 rev. in the middle of the news of 1441, but, judging by the copies taken from it in the 1444th century, the presentation was completed until 1443 (in the Commission List the article corresponds to 55). Although A.N. Nasonov attributed the manuscript to the middle of the 60th century. and pointed out that its paper does not contain filigree, in fact there are watermarks there: on the sheet. 61, 85-12414, 1447 sign of Pisces - Briquet, No. 1450 (212-217), on fol. 7613, 1445 “human figure” - Briquet, No. 8 (40)1444. Consequently, according to paleographic data, the list dates back to the mid-XNUMXs of the XNUMXth century, which does not contradict the testimony of V.N. Tatishchev (who acquired the manuscript from the schismatics) about its writing in XNUMX. The history of the formation of the younger edition of the First Novgorod Chronicle is generally quite complex, but there is no doubt that the main core of the monument was formed in the first quarter of the XNUMXth century. in the process of creating the Chronicle of Metropolitan Photius (as evidenced by the inclusion in the Novgorod Chronicle of stories of all-Russian content: about Alexander Nevsky, Mikhail of Chernigov, about the battle on the Kulikovo Field, etc.).
                    1. +2
                      10 January 2018 10: 50
                      Is it possible to accept everything as truth after such complex manipulations? But there is hope for birch bark letters. Currently, excavations have been carried out on only four percent of the territory of the ancient city. And if more than 1100 birch bark letters have already been extracted, then there should be more than twenty thousand more in the ground. So one of us is bound to be right about today's debate.
  77. +2
    7 January 2018 23: 30
    Luga,
    It’s a pity that the site puts the answer in a new comment!
    but I’ll continue with the story:
    Augustus had followers, and one of them, St. George the Victorious, who defeated the serpent - the relations developing in that empire, would now be said to have won the fight for the purity of faith!
    Note, the so-called Genghis Khan in official history conquered the east, the so-called Batu cleared the west.
    a little aside, but on topic: the most interesting thing is that in official history, although there is something similar to the Arab conquest of the south of Europe, but like the Mongols, according to the official version, they have no contact with them, but there is a reconquista in which, like, the Europeans themselves are liberated from the Arab yoke! although it is more objective that St. George the Victorious thoroughly walked around Europe, and the rest resigned themselves and hid! and subsequently they began to trouble their closest neighbors (like Ukraine now), which led to the reconquista!
    and your story in response to mine in the comments above is an attempt to compromise a person,
    but if you carefully read the chronicles, the story is the same as in the legends, but only they are considered history, while others are classified as legends!!!
    but there are obvious features of the development of civilization
    let's not limit Rus' by nationality, Rus' - if we take it in a modern interpretation, is multinational
    even those territories that are now considered inhabited by Russians were once limited by a name tied to the area, and later began to bear the name Russian!
    but as always, Rus' cleansed the world of dashing trends, be it Paris or Berlin, and as always, the population, which since the nineteenth century was classified as the Mongoloid race, the Turkic-speaking tribes were an integral part of Rus', to allow the world to remain different and not be limited racial superiority, in which there would be no place for everyone else!
    1. +3
      8 January 2018 14: 28
      Quote: SpnSr
      but I’ll continue with the story:

      No more please. wassat
      Quote: SpnSr
      Note, the so-called Genghis Khan in official history conquered the east, the so-called Batu cleared the west.

      An extremely primitive point of view and, based on the canons of “official history,” fundamentally incorrect. Learn materiel.
      Quote: SpnSr
      in official history, although there is something similar to the Arab conquest of southern Europe,
      not “type”, but the conquest of the Arabian Peninsula, Iran and the Levant, North Africa, the Iberian Peninsula and the Caucasus in the XNUMXth - XNUMXth centuries.
      Quote: SpnSr
      but like the Mongols, according to the official version, they have no contact with them
      The Mongols appeared in these places half a millennium later.
      Quote: SpnSr
      but there is a reconquista, in which the Europeans themselves are liberated from the Arab yoke!
      So. Not “like”, but for 700 years they expelled the Arabs from the Iberian Peninsula. What confuses you?
      Quote: SpnSr
      although it is more objective that St. George the Victorious thoroughly walked around Europe
      I don’t remember anymore, in your language who is George the Victorious - Yuri Dolgoruky?
      Yes, I wanted to ask you. I don’t need to outline the main theses of your religion, they are alien to me, I’ll try to forget them as quickly as possible. I already had the honor of familiarizing myself with them about ten years ago, maybe ten years ago, and then my knowledge was enough to successfully confront their author in an absentee dispute. Since then, they have ceased to interest me, and when I see another adherent of this teaching, as in your case, I feel nothing but regret in the style of “he is so young, he should live and live.”
      1. +2
        8 January 2018 18: 51
        Quote: Luga
        adept

        the same can be said about you!
        For example, the Genghisids were in Europe, but did not clash with the Arabs! Isn't it an amazing opus? We walked along the same paths but didn’t see each other? There was also an Ataman empire there until the mid-15th century, but it was Turkish, not Arab or Mongolian! And the reconquista was liberated from the Arabs, and then the Russian Empire fought with the Turks for the liberation of the fraternal peoples!
        Don’t abuse your knowledge of history; the Arabs were created as a state by the British at the end of the 19th century! And then it was torn away from Persia, which broke away from the Ataman empire, when the Ottomans came to power there.
        More precisely, the Ottomans did not have enough strength to fight both the Russian Empire and hold those territories where the British were in full control, developing this territory and creating a more or less modern political map of that territory!...
        1. +3
          8 January 2018 21: 52
          Quote: SpnSr
          The Genghisids were in Europe, but did not clash with the Arabs!

          Horrible, isn't it?
          The Genghisids passed to Europe through the Caspian and Black Sea steppes and only reached the Adriatic. Byzantium did not allow the Arabs to enter Europe directly and they, unfortunate ones, had to make their way through Africa and never got further than Poitiers. Come to terms with the idea that even if the Arabs and Mongols came to Europe at the same time, they would not have met, because some came from the south, others from the east. But, to your disappointment, they will miss each other not only in space, but also in time - by as much as half a thousand years. If not for this nuance, they would undoubtedly have met, but only in the Caucasus or Iran, but not fate. My condolences.
          Quote: SpnSr
          There was also an Ataman empire there until the mid-15th century, but it was Turkish, not Arab or Mongolian!

          The Ottoman Empire lasted from the XNUMXth century until the XNUMXth century. And she really was Turkish. True, before the Ottomans, the Seljuks frolicked in those places, and also, by the way, the Turks.
          Quote: SpnSr
          And the reconquista was liberated from the Arabs, and then the Russian Empire fought with the Turks for the liberation of the fraternal peoples!

          Agree. From the XNUMXth to the XNUMXth centuries - the reconquista in Spain against the Arabs (in Europe, except there they could not be found anywhere else, a rare beast smile ), the XNUMXth - XNUMXth century wars between Russia and the Ottoman (or Ottoman) Empire for the liberation of the Balkan region, because, again, it was there that they had a rookery in Europe, they were not allowed further. But the Mongols left Europe, went to a distant cordon, back in the XNUMXth century. Their empire collapsed, they left, mixed with just about anyone, leaving us with a few words (unswearing) to remember, and returned to their place in the steppe. Apparently, they missed the Mongolian birch trees, of which there, on the banks of Kerulen and Onon, together with larches, there are no less than here.
          Quote: SpnSr
          The Arabs were created as a state by the British at the end of the 19th century!

          Venaya? wassat
          Oh, no, it was my imagination. He said that about the Mongols, yes, sorry. However, the difference is not great, he is talking about the Mongols, you are talking about the Arabs. You are moving by leaps and bounds towards the honorary title of “brother in mind venaya”. Follow this direction and you will be guaranteed an honorary shelf in the local panopticon. You will become famous and site visitors will give your works to their young children to read. With appropriate comments, of course.
          Quote: SpnSr
          where the British were in full control,

          You and others like you so diligently glorify these British, look, there they rule, they create states and peoples, here they rule history, and here they generally write for us. If you believe your flawed inventions, then all that remains is either to hang yourself on a Russian hemp rope out of melancholy that the Anglo-Saxons are deciding everything for us, or to humiliatingly ask for their citizenship, saying, “Accept me as an Anglo-Saxon, I also want to rule everyone, I also know the English word - ka-a-arrrrr!”
          Wow, I really got carried away with something. feel
          I will not erase what I wrote, I will only add that you may not be completely lost to society yet, so do not immediately perceive everything written as written exclusively to you personally. Think about what exactly is written that suits you, don’t worry about the rest. hi
          1. +2
            8 January 2018 23: 50
            Quote: Luga
            space, but also in time - as much as half a thousand years. If not for this nuance, they

            It’s strange, Batu is in Europe in the 13th century, the reconquista is 15, what half a thousand years?
            And regarding the British, the history of peoples was written not only by them, but also by the Romanovs!
            Read carefully when there is a description of the peoples who inhabited the now Russian Federation. Moreover, many other nations on earth appeared precisely because of the confrontation between the British and Russian empires! Including your Mongolia and Ukraine and the Baltic countries and Poland...
            Alas, stop reading myths, start reading history in the end! For example, most of the former large empire of the so-called Western Slavs, which was Germanized by the very last for a long time, was part of the Russian Empire, then the USSR and part of the Warsaw Pact...
            And the technology of Germanizing them is now being played out in Ukraine!
            М
          2. +1
            9 January 2018 00: 16
            Yes, and which Mongols left Europe? They seem to have stuck around somewhere like Hungary, just like Atila!
            About the Ataman Empire, in addition to Batu’s Mongols, there were also Seljuks and all this during Batu’s European campaign!? And how did they fit there and not kill each other! And who captured Constantinople? In the 15th century, when the Ataman Empire ceased to exist, oh yes, in your opinion it was Turkish, But who captured Constantinople, after which the Ataman Empire began to decrease in size, including in its European part, where the reconquista begins, well, kind of peculiar liberation from the Arabs, who received statehood from the hands of the British in the 19th century, and before that, there were governors like the Turks, and the Arabs themselves were inhabitants of the desert
            You are an unnecessary type of historical noise, put aside the noise, maybe you can see the history!
          3. +1
            10 January 2018 06: 42
            Quote: Luga
            "brother in mind venaya"

            Or rather, a brother in the ward of the madhouse....
        2. +1
          10 January 2018 06: 39
          Quote: SpnSr
          For example, the Genghisids were in Europe, but did not clash with the Arabs! Isn't it an amazing opus? We walked along the same paths but didn’t see each other?

          To ask why the Mongol and Arab conquerors did not meet, between whom there is a time period of at least half a millennium, CAN ONLY BE A COMPLETE IGNORANT IN HISTORY.... And here you are going to rub something in with us after this.....???
      2. +2
        8 January 2018 18: 56
        Quote: Luga
        so young, he should live and live,” I don’t feel it.

        Read the story more carefully, more carefully!
        Don't believe any myths!!!
    2. +2
      8 January 2018 18: 07
      I now look something like this:
  78. +4
    8 January 2018 01: 04
    I wonder how many people received warnings for evaluating this opus? wassat please reply to me fellow
    1. 0
      10 January 2018 06: 45
      For rating this article...? And what is your assessment..? I'm a little unaware of the ratings of articles here....
  79. +6
    8 January 2018 03: 39
    Let there be srach!
    Senseless and merciless!
    Did you want this? hi
  80. +6
    8 January 2018 06: 49
    I appeal to the readers of the site, and to those who participate in the discussions. NOW ALREADY IS UNDERSTANDING AND OBVIOUS PURPOSE OF PLACING THIS AND SIMILAR statues. THIS IS DESTRUCTION OF THE HISTORY OF RUSSIA AND RUSSIANS, BREAKING BETWEEN THE PEOPLES OF RUSSIA, KINDING BETWEEN THEM AND BATTLE BETWEEN THEM. WITH THIS SAME, THE PERSONALITY OF THOSE PARTICIPATING IN THE PROMOTION OF THESE ARTICLES AND THE PURPOSES OF THESE ARTICLES BECOMES UNDERSTANDING. TWO OPTIONS are possible here. The first is fools from the composition of the indigenous peoples of Russia, who have pronounced chauvinist and nationalist views, clinging to the opportunity to suddenly become incredibly great, above all, and wipe the ugly pages of the history of their people that are unworthy in their opinion for such a “completely unbelievable great people” from whom he is an. The second option - THIS IS COMPLETELY CLEAR THAT THEY ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVES OF THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES OF RUSSIA, AND THEIR ACTIONS SHOULD BE UNDERSTANDED AS AN UNDERGROUND WORK AMONG THE POPULATION OF RUSSIA FOR THE FOLLOWING STARTED. it is quite understandable and constantly observed by us in the modern political life of the country, when for some reason Russian nationalists are led by representatives of a completely different people who are not the indigenous people of Russia. You can say about another category of people involved in promoting these crazy ideas present in this and other similar articles. THESE THOSE THOSE THERE WORKS FOR A BOARD, FOR 30 SILVER, WHILE IS THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF RUSSIA, THIS IS A TRAITOR OF ITS PEOPLE, AND ITS ACTIONS ARE MUCH MORE VIRIDER THAN THOSE WHO ABOUT ABOVE
    1. +2
      8 January 2018 09: 50
      Dzungar - everything is simpler. The scientific facts known today do not allow us to agree with the version proposed by the orthodox. And any politician can be blamed on this. Which is what you do.
      1. +2
        8 January 2018 16: 50
        Which category listed above do you consider yourself in?...?
        1. +4
          8 January 2018 17: 31
          I am a resident of the center of Russia. I solemnly swear that no horse at all in our winter will survive on pasture. Due to its absence.
          What other categories are needed?
          1. 0
            8 January 2018 19: 01
            It’s strange, then where did the horseshoes and arrows come from in the Zolotarevsky settlement? Why didn’t they collect sabers, armor, and silver coins from the battlefield? The winners are obvious. But they didn’t collect... Why? And the snow was deep, and then it started snowing again and covered everything up. And in the spring they didn’t come back and the young growth hid everything.
            1. +2
              9 January 2018 15: 00
              And the snow never melted again! Disturbing music sounds...
          2. 0
            10 January 2018 06: 47
            I understand that you are the very horse that will die on pasture one fine winter.....
            1. +2
              10 January 2018 09: 17
              Listen - stop being rude already. If you have any objections, express them. No - don't interfere.
              1. +2
                13 January 2018 21: 30
                I cannot say something normal in response to idiocy. I can only characterize him accordingly....
  81. +2
    8 January 2018 09: 33
    long in stock.,
    Well, no nomads walked several thousand kilometers with completely incomprehensible goals. And then back. This is a joke about a drug addict and a goldfish.
    And no one tried to drive the horses out to graze in winter.
    1. +1
      9 January 2018 07: 40
      and the Ryazan principality stood on the border of Rus' and the steppe... last night I returned from fishing at a stud farm... we have such a village. during this day I watched a school of Mongolians grazing the snowy steppe. I told your opuses to a shepherd, either a Tatar or a Kazakh. It’s not very clear. You made his day.... he neighed like the gelding he was sitting on. Yes, it’s 800 km from me to Ryazan.. .on the way you can go to Penza to visit Vyacheslav at the Zolotoreskoye settlement... rob a little so that you can eat it on the road..
      1. +2
        9 January 2018 09: 16
        the gelding he was sitting on
        Well, now everything has become clear. Just like that on a gelding?
        1. +2
          9 January 2018 14: 51
          what did you think? Unlike you, I don’t know horses from pictures... and yes, I pay attention to who is under the saddle.... well, for that, your horizons have now expanded at least a little... but do you want to fall into a complete stupor? Yes. I helped a stallion inseminate a mare... I know and can do that too..
          1. +2
            9 January 2018 15: 02
            I helped a stallion inseminate a mare
            Surely not a gelding?
            1. +3
              10 January 2018 09: 19
              And after this question, the amateur horse breeder disappeared.
              1. +2
                13 January 2018 20: 41
                but there remains a sofa horse breeder....isn’t that enough for you? As I understand it, while lying on the sofa you have mastered many professions and crafts...
                1. +1
                  14 January 2018 16: 54
                  I asked a specific question - where is the answer? One double jab in the thread is enough.
  82. +2
    8 January 2018 11: 39
    Luga,
    Luga,
    Luga,
    It's you who are complicating everything, official story! To such an extent that you won’t understand anything, but you’ll only get more confused! And then the expression bursts out on its own: let’s chat!
    Kazakhs appear as successors of the Mongol family. Turks by blood, or the army of the Mongols, or transformed Mongols!!!
  83. +4
    8 January 2018 18: 58
    Quote: Luga
    I don't know anything about this. Do you want me to tell you why? Because such a meeting did not exist and could not exist. I repeat once again - scientists are not a political party, they do not vote on what is right or wrong and do not proclaim an official course that must be followed if you want to consider yourself a scientist. They constantly argue, debate, intrigue, mock each other, sometimes they even hit each other in the face (I have heard of such cases), but they have always rejected the principles of democratic centralism in any form. There is no “official history” and there cannot be, just like “official historians”.

    Kharasho said, daragoy, wah-wah - good!
  84. +2
    9 January 2018 08: 13
    There was a Horde-Rada
    So this is where the ancient Ukrainians come from!
  85. +1
    9 January 2018 12: 44
    Smart people, unlike adherents of (classical) history, have long understood that the IGA as such did not exist in the form that historians present to us. There was a Great Battle, there were devastated cities, there were foreigners... but everything was different, there were a lot of inconsistencies even in the official history. The Mongols themselves do not know anything about this, there are not even folk legends, and this says a lot, there was no metallurgy and other things... Russian history was distorted to please the West, Rome... but for what reason one can only guess...
    1. +1
      9 January 2018 14: 54
      all the smart people about whom you talk so much fit into the mirror for you personally... why, when you get sick, you run to the doctor and not to the shaman with the sorcerer...
    2. +1
      10 January 2018 07: 00
      Many Russians a hundred years ago in illiterate villages, of which there were thousands throughout the country, had NO CONCEPT about Yaroslav the Wise, Dmitry Donskoy, Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, especially since they had it even a hundred years ago. And even now many people don’t know and don’t want to know..... Don’t shift your problems to others
      1. +2
        10 January 2018 09: 26
        Quote: Dzungar
        Russians a hundred years ago in illiterate villages

        it's an oxymoron
        Within walking distance from each house there was a church with a parish school attached to it.
        All Russians were literate.
  86. +4
    9 January 2018 14: 35
    History is the most inexact science. It is difficult to imagine how they will portray the events that happened before our eyes in different countries. For example, about Syria. Who fought with whom? Whose troops took part, on whose side? What is ISIS (ISIS)? 100 years ago (minuscule by historical standards) no one had heard of Syria. What does Russia have to do with it, it’s far away? There will be a lot of questions and it will not be possible to write this story with broad masks.
    And given the paucity of material, historical assumptions are inevitable. So they raise a lot of questions. At the same time, the American chronicle will differ from the Syrian, from the Russian, and they will all differ from the chronicles of any Nusr and Ash Shams (OZVR). Moreover, there is no “touchstone of truth” against which one could check this or that work of a historian:
    1. Napoleon’s army defeated the Russian Army at Borodino since the battlefield remained behind it.
    2. The Russians inflicted a mortal wound on the Napoleon army in the Battle of Borodino, from which it did not recover.
    Two mutually exclusive or equivalent statements? How can you win if you are dying, but the enemy is alive and has only retreated 50 km? However, French historians write one thing, Russians write another. So the most unpredictable thing is our past and there is nothing surprising about it. History is not an exact science.
    1. +1
      9 January 2018 15: 00
      For some reason, you are missing the fact that there are more and more literate people, as well as information carriers, every century. And if there are relatively few sources about the Mongol invasion, due to the simply small number of people who could write about it, then already in the time of Napoleon there were such There are already exponentially more people and papers. Accordingly, there will be simply a gigantic number of sources about Syria. But it’s up to those who are interested in comparing and analyzing these sources..
      1. +2
        10 January 2018 15: 21
        If you write about Syria from the CNN archives, you will see a very interesting picture: bloodthirsty Assad with chemical weapons and poisoned babies, ferocious Russians carpet bombing cities with thousands of victims, and the white and fluffy FSA and the USA, with flowers and bread and salt in their hands. And this will be a very official story, all other sources will be declared untrustworthy and contrary to the official one (of course, the CNN archive is not kan is pen is) So much for the yoke and everything else. INACCURATE science and that's it.
    2. +1
      9 January 2018 15: 23
      hippopotamus
      sources are Chinese, Polish, Hungarian, Russian, Central Asian etc. they write the same thing, so your example is off topic
      1. +2
        10 January 2018 15: 10
        Again, a contradictory statement. by definition, they cannot write the same thing, if only due to the geographical dispersion and time difference of various events taking place in different parts of the world. or where did you read the same phrase in Chinese and Polish, in Hungarian and Russian: TMI WAS in Rus'!! No. There are too many inaccuracies and questions here to make a definitive statement. For example, I still don’t understand how a simple temnik Mamai became the head of the Horde, how the Genghisids allowed this to happen, and why Tokhtamysh first, together with Dmitry Donskoy, defeated Mamai’s army, and then almost killed Donskoy himself, if he had not bolted, but do they write in history that the Battle of Kulikovo marked the end of TMI?
        Who to believe? CNN or Red Star?
  87. +2
    9 January 2018 23: 23
    Luga,
    Do not immediately perceive everything written as written exclusively to you personally.

    Having become acquainted with the reading material of adherents from official history, I sincerely had many questions that overlapped each other and in the end a panic of perception began to arise, for example, the Ataman Empire, if it is Turkish, then why is Constantinople being captured by the Suljuk Turks? although Constantinople was kind of Turkish, it was ruled by a Byzantine king!
    and then! The USSR literally did the same during its collapse! There is Moscow, but because of its internal politics it no longer made decisions regarding its subjects, and in the nineties the RSFSR was already at the edge!
    so there, it seems, there is a Byzantine, Ataman empire, there is a nominal king, but his rights are limited! doesn't remind you of anything? I think there are plenty of examples, these are parliamentary republics.
    show the Seljuks?
    Syria! although it didn’t work there!
    Ukraine!
    Only there were no Nulands, but there were heirs who considered their right!
    an example is Saudi Arabia, now the king there is trying to pass on the truth to his son, although he should pass it on to his brother!
    same there.
    in the official version of history for the period of the 15th century there are such? it seems like yes, they just mention it in passing, like there is, like he founded Kazan, and that’s all!
    and now we just change the names!
    Rus' was engaged in the development of territories north and west of the Black Sea!
    in mythology, Augustus conquered the eastern territories! (by the way, like Chingiz)
    upon his return, he saw that the territories previously developed by Russia, not by Russia, but by galley rowers, according to the official version of history, such as the Etruscans and all that, began to abuse power, to live illegally, (in Samsonov’s version), he decided to carry out reforms (examples are needed , when were such people killed?) and he is killed, but he had followers, and not just followers, go to the Orthodox Church! icons before the Romanovs, these are those who defended Rus', some of them are recognized even by the West!
    and it is precisely these common saints, those whom they do not recognize, who most likely appeared in Rus' in the process of confrontation between the east and the emerging west! Alexander Nevsky, Dmitry Donskoy, moreover, even now there is a process of denigration of Russian Saints, even St. George the Victorious!
    to deepen what is described, previously there was no east or west, most likely there were legions developing territories, territories not of barbarians, perhaps there was no such concept, or something else was implied! and these legions were formed from the population closest to, let’s call the metropolis, and remote developed territories! and they were called Rus'!
    but the developed territories were transferred to rule by relatives and closest boyars, I hope the term is familiar from official history?
    While Augustus was developing the eastern territories, where a population lived who did not even think about civilizational growth, but only thought about how to feed themselves, civil strife and separatism began to arise in the previously developed territories (does not resemble official history, the only difference is that the strife did not occur only between the Eastern Slavs, but also the Western, and between the Eastern and Western! (late terminology East West))
    Augustus considered it necessary to carry out reforms, for which he was killed, those who were on horseback and were against...
    regarding the rowers on the galleys, as one historian, a friend of Satanovsky, claimed, and he carried out excavations both on the Don and in Scandinavia, in the lower reaches of the Don, they found more from the Vikings than in places like their main habitat! conclusion: Rus' lived in the lower reaches of the Don, and in Scandinavia one of the places they stayed at the time of the development of undeveloped territories by Russia!
    Having killed Augustus, the rulers of the territories developed by Russia tried to install their own ruler in Rome (not modern Rome), but there was an army (there were also examples of military coups after attempted coups by the elites, I think examples are not needed), and there remained those for whom this was not beneficial and direct followers.
    George gathers an army, from oarsmen, I say oarsmen, so as not to emphasize Rus', from an already existing army and newly developed territories and invades... Bolgar, Ryazan, I think there is no point in listing everything, and so everything is known from the officially announced history, literally cleanses Kiev and moves on, at this time Alexander Nevsky from the north stops the claims of some Western Slavs who are beginning to become Germanized (civil strife)!
    literally, this attempt to stop the Germanization of the Western Slavs has similarities with the territories of the Warsaw Pact countries! a little more, the closer to our time, the larger the territory of the Germanization of the Western Slavs, or the Germanization of primordial Rus'!
    either the local population began to mature, or the local elites from relatives and closest boyars were inspired by separatism!
    this era is almost over, after the death of “Batu” somewhere on the territory of Hungary, (like Atila) some “Western” territories decided to take revenge! 1380 (there were examples of such revenge more than once and already in the time described, Napalion, Hitler, the Ottomans, and that’s not all)
    in official history, in the interval between Batu’s campaign and the battle of Mamai with Dmitry Donskoy, the Ataman empire arose, from the territory reclaimed by Augustus and returned to law by George the Victorious
    and then, then, there was a violation of the succession to the throne, for which reason Sophia became the wife of Ivan 3 (I doubt that she was given in marriage to Ivan 3 in order to bring her to Catholicism, (it is more likely that he was supposed to inherit power after the Ottoman Empire!) I also doubt that there was Catholicism, well, or it was just emerging, the weakening of the influence of the church is more likely associated with Luther, and this is somewhat later, when they begin to reject common saints, and even more so reject new ones)
    By the way, Ivan 3 could not call himself the new emperor, the right of inheritance did not allow, and the Ottoman, as they call him in official history, or Muhamed, or maybe Mehmet Ulu, was unable to preserve the ataman empire after inheriting power!
    and only a century later, Ivan 4 became the heir, but the empire staggered, the developed territories became too much developed by the local elites (need an example? USSR), but he regained influence on some territories, Kazan, Astrakhan, Siberia, Crimea - after attempts by the heirs of Ottoman to regain influence on Rus', after Ivan 4 legally declared himself the heir of Augustus, the Battle of Molodi. here, in addition to the scribblings, you can look at the official seals of those times!
    and then, everything that has already been described, the Ottomans’ attempt failed, thereby they weakened enough to be unable to maintain power in the territories of the Ataman Empire, large territories fall off, Persia arises, in Rus', some of the blood of Augustus lay claim to the throne in the Third Rome, this is about paspaltai speech! By the way, the Romanovs are also not of the last blood, so it turned out that they ascended the throne!
    but the claims of others were no less, such as war with paspalitai speech! after the rise of the Romanovs to the throne in the Third Rome!
    and then! then, the fragmentation of what is now called the European Union into a more or less modern political map, also bringing the Ataman Empire first to the size of the Ottoman Empire, and by the beginning of the 20th century to Turkey!
    creating a political map of the middle east and east!
    and somehow neither Mangolia, nor Arabstan with the capture of Spain, nor many other types of developed civilized states until the 20th century, even until the 21st century, well, no! except for the states that are called Western Slavs, England, and now America, well, somehow there is no sign of it! Well, of course, if you don’t take into account the Russian Empire, the USSR, well, I would like to believe in Russia in the future!
    one on the face! that all the technologies for the collapse of the Ataman Empire, then the Ottoman Empire, and the British Empire are now clearly being used to dismember the Slavs, and no one can claim that they are not using them against Russia!!!
    1. +2
      10 January 2018 07: 05
      You are a very rare blabbermouth - there is so much to sprinkle in that is stupid..... If you have a lot of questions and don’t know where to start, then ask again “why didn’t the Arab and Mongol conquerors meet in Europe...?” And we will admire the extravaganza of your “mind”.....
      1. +2
        10 January 2018 08: 13
        Quote: Dzungar
        You are a very rare blabbermouth - there is so much to sprinkle in that is stupid..... If you have a lot of questions and don’t know where to start, then ask again “why didn’t the Arab and Mongol conquerors meet in Europe...?” And we will admire the extravaganza of your “mind”.....

        laughing does this story take away from you the vanity of nomadic civilization?
        Here, somehow yourself, first answer the question of what civilization is, and then try to add the word nomad to it! laughing otherwise we started playing a game with terms laughing
        1. 0
          10 January 2018 09: 14
          Quote: SpnSr
          what is civilization, and then try to add the word nomadic to it!

          EASILY..! It still exists, and will continue to exist when your civilized comfortable world collapses... Nomadic civilization will not even notice this
          1. +3
            10 January 2018 10: 59
            Quote: Dzungar
            Quote: SpnSr
            what is civilization, and then try to add the word nomadic to it!

            EASILY..! It still exists, and will continue to exist when your civilized comfortable world collapses... Nomadic civilization will not even notice this

            I think you and I are talking about the same thing, only I put a deeper definition into the concept of civilization, and not a specific way of life!
            1. 0
              10 January 2018 14: 36
              I don't know what you're talking about. But there is NOTHING IN COMMON between us... Moreover, there is an abyss between us. But not a different understanding of the concept of civilization
        2. +1
          11 January 2018 07: 51
          SpnSr, I think you have already been added, and more than once.
    2. +1
      10 January 2018 07: 27
      Mindflow... belay
      1. +3
        10 January 2018 08: 18
        Quote: Mikhail_Zverev
        Mindflow... belay

        are you me
        if so, why should I believe the story that is called official and reject this one?
        any excavation can be brought under it, even more, there is no need to bring it, just take an honest look!
        and the events of today only confirm that it could have been exactly like this then!
    3. +1
      10 January 2018 14: 33
      Lord, has anyone figured out this stream of consciousness?))
      1. +1
        10 January 2018 16: 55
        Personally, I do not. request
        Letters form words, words form sentences, but no meaning emerges.
    4. +2
      11 January 2018 07: 48
      SpnSr, non-Russian: Ottoman, to believe in Russia in the future, well, Mongolia, it is obvious, civilized, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, too, mastered, could not, akin to Napoleon, Seljuks, was it the same thing that did not solve something? nothing, no east, I hope, civil strife.
      2/2, and march, dropout, to the 2nd grade of a parochial school, with similar nonsense from the Upanishads.
      1. +2
        11 January 2018 23: 00
        Quote: leo1946
        SpnSr, non-Russian: Ottoman, to believe in Russia in the future, well, Mongolia, it is obvious, civilized, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, too, mastered, could not, akin to Napoleon, Seljuks, was it the same thing that did not solve something? nothing, no east, I hope, civil strife.
        2/2, and march, dropout, to the 2nd grade of a parochial school, with similar nonsense from the Upanishads.

        I’m not being rude, it’s written there as it should be written.
        As Luzhsky says, don’t take everything personally,
        But it is written there for adherents of traditional and alternative mythology, and the letter-by-letter correct spelling does not carry any semantic load!
        And it was only about combining the myths of both traditional historians and the myths that traditional historians call myths!
        Don't be clever by looking for spelling errors, rather look for semantic errors! Not in my text, there is no point in looking for them, this is perhaps the same myth as traditional history, but in general “knowledge”!!!
  88. The comment was deleted.
    1. 0
      11 January 2018 10: 03
      What are you talking about?