Military Review

Georgian paradox

100



The problems of relations with the Georgian state have become practically stable and unsolvable, and many have a strange impression that this has always been the case. And even in the mass consciousness in relation to the Georgian state there remained almost one negative. It is better to keep silent about the attitude of the new generation of Georgians to modern Russia.

Nowadays, many people forget that Georgia is an Orthodox state. So it goes. Not Catholic, and not Muslim never. Moreover, for many reasons, including religious ones, Georgia constantly came under attack from either the Persians or the Turks. What was that was.

A normal quiet life without taxes “living goods” began there from the moment of entry into the Russian Empire. It was then that Georgia was united from individual pieces and pieces. No, you can, of course, theoretically assume that there would be a Georgian patriot and a great statist who would do it all himself. Why not dream? Such an alternative reality would be quite enough. But as we well understand, with the geopolitical situation that existed in Transcaucasia and on Georgian lands, this option is absolutely incredible. "The princes are divided," and unlike Kievan Rus, these princes are just to hell. And everyone is ready to fight to the death for your personal power. Plus there are powerful external players to whom every prince is ready to ask for help.

That is, “voluntarily” no one would ever unite, and if some Georgian Oda Nobunaga were found, then his unfortunate rivals immediately would rush to Turkey and Persia for "help against the usurper." Such is Georgian “patriotism”. Georgia could arise only within the framework of the Russian Empire and nothing else. It is, in general, within its framework. Due to the fact that external power and economic resources were attracted. And it is clear that many "princes" were terribly offended. Although some other way of combining could not be. Here, as always, is a contradiction familiar to all: either one large and successful project, or many proud and “independent” semi-poor houses.

Georgian paradox


And, in principle, Russian / Soviet Georgia until a certain point was a completely successful project. And it was created just thanks to an external resource (power and economic). This approach provided a quick and relatively bloodless association. It was within the framework of the Russian imperial project that Georgian culture developed (painting!), It was after the entry into Russia that the Georgians stopped being “Asians” and became Europeans. Of course, it’s not tolerant, but that’s how it was: Georgians got access to European culture within the Russian Empire and in no other way. Whether they became Europeans is another question. And so, for some reason, all Georgian nationalists somehow quickly forget that Georgian nationalism became possible just within the framework of the Russian Empire: for comparison, look at modern “European Turkey” and the position of the Kurds there. Or ask Armenians whether it is easy to be a national minority in Turkey. And in general there would be Megrelian nationalism, Laz, Svan ...

So here: Georgia, which is modern for us, is in many ways a product of the USSR / RI, whether it is pleasant to someone in Tbilisi or not. And what is characteristic: when the external economic and power feed was eliminated, the country began to fall apart. And this is not the machinations of enemies - this is the natural course of events, the resources of Georgia are not enough for a sustainable centralized state. In this impoverished territory (and no one except Moscow did not give money), centrifugal processes have increased dramatically, which is normal: the system returns to its original state. But not quite: there are a lot of claims and resentment towards Russia itself. That, in principle, quite funny - Georgia, with its “statehood”, culture and economy, was an artificial creation within the framework of the empire. No more, no less. The resources required for this were scooped from the all-imperial boiler, and no one really bothered about this.

But when the boiler was gone ... The fundamental non-viability of the Georgian state was sharply exposed. And for this we make a complaint, but we have to do with it? We are not magicians after all. Or rather, almost wizards, but for now we are learning. That is, the Georgians were shown the current model of the state of Georgia with a good southern European standard of living for imperial money. The empire left, the model died: the lights went out and the wheels stopped spinning ... And there were no others willing to maintain this system. Such a Georgian paradox is obtained (even more paradoxical than Ukrainian): unlike Ukraine (which theoretically could be rich), Georgia could be successful only in the framework of the imperial project and nothing else. Somehow I don’t remember a united, rich and successful Georgia outside the framework of the Republic of Ingushetia / USSR. I do not remember.

The terrible poverty in which modern “independent” Georgia has plunged, and the territorial division that we are seeing, is just the normal and natural state of affairs. A kind of "spherical Georgia in a vacuum." But the most paradoxical thing is that Georgians terribly hate Russians at the same time. Well, they would cut out South Ossetia and what? Would that solve all their problems? Would Georgia become rich and prosperous? This is a kind of “childish idiocy”: we will unite the country with iron and blood and this will solve all our problems. Otherwise nothing. Well, Abkhazia would turn into a graveyard ... So what? Would Tbilisi be the second Seoul? I just can not understand how an economic miracle follows from the genocide. I do not catch up.

The problem is precisely in this - the Georgians were not going in principle about anything to negotiate with national minorities. In general, all these Caucasian independent states are positioning themselves as European, but they are pursuing a 100% classic Asian policy: “We'll be cutting!” And the whole story. This is a little alarming. Politicians in Tbilisi cannot understand in any way that a single prosperous Georgian state within the borders of the GSSR is impossible technically. Theoretically, it is possible to “zazet” everyone, but one cannot build a European state in Georgia, relying on the resources of Georgia itself. Such an unpleasant paradox.

Neither Europe nor America is in a hurry to provide such resources. The reason is simple: expensive. By our standards, the organization of a “happy childhood” for the five million Georgian people was something natural and not very expensive, but in the West it is customary to start to count notes on the other side of a pack. And they will never give money to Tbilisi. But the Georgians are not discouraged: they are bursting into the EU and NATO, sincerely hate Russia. They are waiting for something from this life ... Here is such a tragic discrepancy between dreams and realities: within the Western bloc, they can only be a poor third world country with a very unstable state, but they absolutely do not want to be friends with Russia categorically. Hedgehogs cried, injected, but continued to climb on the cactus. That is, all further "efforts" of the Georgians will not lead to anything good.



Their position in relation to Russia is simple to ugliness: return Abkhazia, Yu. Ossetia and then “talk”. And, as we all understand, “let's talk” does not mean at all that the American military (including the guys from the secret biolaboratory) will leave the hospitable land of Sakartvelo and Shoigu guys will take their place. This (as we all understand) will never happen. Then what are you talking about? The thing is that frankly not rich Georgia would like to make money on that very "enemy Russia". And even just to get help (the memory of the “money from Moscow” is still alive in the hearts of the Georgians!).

All this is understandable, good and healthy, but one thing is unclear: what is the interest of Russia here? We then all this why? What will we have from this “super-project”? The funny thing is that this is exactly what the Georgians themselves and their politicians are offering us. In all seriousness. And then we will have a "good relationship." No, when the Americans propose a similar version of a gradual capitulation for the sake of “good relations”, then a certain logic can still be traced, but when the Georgians offer the same thing ... It becomes really scary. They say that we are pursuing the wrong policy towards Georgia, but what will the right one look like? At least about? Theoretically, what can be done here?

That is, it seems that we have a common religion, and история... And seemingly purely theoretically, the attitude of Georgians towards Russia should have been very positive and respectful. But for some reason this does not happen. Strange as it may seem, such an attitude takes place to the same Europeans / Americans (especially Americans!), But not to Russians. I.e that specifically America made for Georgia? Nothing. In fact - nothing. To smile broadly, to firmly shake the hands of local politicians and to clap their shoulders in a friendly way - this means “nothing”. But the Georgians sent a very large (by the standards of a small country) contingent to Afghanistan.

Of the non-NATO countries, they sent the largest contingent altogether. And their casualties were there (but no one was indignant). And what did they get in return? Friendship of the great American people! But with Russia, the “option of good relations” includes “according to the list”: “territorial returns,” economic preferences, a visa-free regime ... and what do we get in return? Friendship of the great Georgian people! So it goes.

Somehow, wrongly, we are building relations with our neighbors, and they perceive us incorrectly, even if quite Orthodox Georgia wants to play in the relations with Russia the role that the United States of America plays in relations with Georgia. And most likely Bulgarians and Belarusians are also concerned.



Articles from this series:
Bulgarian syndrome
Author:
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  1. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 11 January 2018 04: 05
    27
    Everything to the point. You just need to know that under Stalin, Georgians received very large preferences. For example, the Abkhazian SSR was added to the Georgian SSR, lowering the status of Abkhazia from a union republic to an autonomous one. Although the Abkhazian principality became part of Russia in 1810 independently of the Georgian principalities, and Abkhazia was always independent of the Georgian principalities, and such annexation of Abkhazia in Georgia was a blatant act of historical injustice, which later came back in 1990. It would be more logical to join The Abkhaz ASSR to the RSFSR, and the South Ossetian ASSR to merge with the North Ossetian ASSR and simply create the Ossetian ASSR as part of the RSFSR. Then, there would be no Georgian-Abkhazian and Georgian-Ossetian wars. And by the way, although the Georgian SSR had two autonomies in its composition in the form of the AbASSR and the South Ossetian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, for some reason it did not become the SSFSR following the example of the RSFSR.
    In the days of the USSR, only in Georgia there were humid subtropics, and this allowed the Georgians to grow tea, tobacco, citrus fruits, and the whole USSR bought these goods only from the Georgians, since these crops did not grow anywhere else in the USSR. And the Georgians, using their monopoly on subtropical cultures, with great profit sold them to other republics. In the USSR, they preferred to buy tea, tobacco and citrus fruits from Georgians, even if they were of poorer quality than from foreign ones, but in the USSR they preferred to save foreign currency and buy inside themselves, even at unreasonably high prices. That's where the jokes about rich Georgians came to the USSR and where the Georgian thieves in law came from, since crime in Georgia made huge money in the shadow business. Therefore, in the mentality of Georgians for 70 years, the idea was very strongly rooted that they were "sluggish" and that "stupid Russians" should simply seek friendship with them. In about 20-30 years, when a new generation will occupy the highest posts in Georgia, then this Georgian "exclusivity" will most likely disappear. By the way, the same thing with the Ukrainians. In the USSR, Khrushchev and Brezhnev were Ukrainians, they also indulged their fellow countrymen in every possible way, all Soviet propaganda constantly spoke of Ukraine as a “granary and nurse”, and the pots also believed in their exclusiveness that they fed “lazy mo ... cali” , and if they separated, they would live like the French and Germans.
    1. leo1946
      leo1946 11 January 2018 07: 03
      11
      Kot_Kuzya, I think that it will be fair to recall and rehabilitate the great manager of the USSR Lavrentiy Pavlovich Beria (Lavrenti Pavles dzé Beria), the great son of the Georgian and Abkhaz peoples, the head of the "organization of nuclear energy production and the successful completion of the testing of atomic weapons", thanks to whom we are still alive .
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 11 January 2018 07: 40
      +1
      they themselves will live and die their own death, then they will look at the trail of a generation on pieces of the Caucasus (without screamers)
      1. Buffet
        Buffet 11 January 2018 13: 27
        +3
        Many there understand this. I heard from different people who traveled to Georgia that ordinary people treat Russians normally.
        1. KaPToC
          KaPToC 11 January 2018 13: 47
          +3
          Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
          Many there understand this. I heard from different people who traveled to Georgia that ordinary people treat Russians normally.

          So let's not post this nonsense about "normal people", there are none in nature.
          1. Buffet
            Buffet 11 January 2018 22: 03
            +1
            Well, that is, you are not normal, and in general everyone here is present, right?
            1. KaPToC
              KaPToC 12 January 2018 18: 22
              0
              Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
              Well, that is, you are not normal, and in general everyone here is present, right?

              All people are different, normality is a fiction, what do you still not understand?
              1. Buffet
                Buffet 12 January 2018 21: 45
                0
                In general, I spoke about the attitude of people towards Russians, and not about their adequacy, mental normality in principle.
                1. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 12 January 2018 21: 50
                  +1
                  Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
                  I actually talked about the attitude of people towards Russian

                  Pretending to be tourists, their "normality" is fake. The Germans were also “normal”, there was also an appeal to “ordinary German people” who have nothing against the Russians, but in the Second World War ordinary Germans (Finnish, Hungarian, French, etc.) were killed, not Hitlers and Mannerheim.
                  1. Buffet
                    Buffet 16 January 2018 19: 43
                    0
                    So they still created in 1242 year. Dear, the war ended 76 years ago. And for you, the impression is that all Germans are Nazis and racists. What now forever anger at someone to grind? With such an attitude, the country will not go far. And in Germany and their allies there were people who were against war and ideology, the same "Red Chapel" and the whole anti-fascist movement. Incidentally, these people were dealt with in the same way as with prisoners from the anti-Hitler coalition.
                    1. KaPToC
                      KaPToC 16 January 2018 21: 11
                      0
                      Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
                      And for you, the impression is that all Germans are Nazis and racists.

                      Not all, but most, do not distort, if among them there are adequate people - this does not justify others who are racists and fascists. Russia has been at war with Europe for more than a thousand years, and they are attacking us, how many Russians must die in order to reach those like you?
                      Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
                      And in Germany and their allies there were people who were against war and ideology

                      The Germans can be against anything, but they will do as they are ordered by the government, as has been done repeatedly before.
                      Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
                      Dear, the war ended 76 years ago.

                      Apparently because the war is over - Russia is surrounded by NATO bases and declared the number one enemy for the very Germans whom you are defending. Which side are you on?
                      1. Buffet
                        Buffet 16 January 2018 21: 37
                        0
                        You contradict yourself. And when did they begin to punish us collectively for personal crimes? This, as it were, is the policy of the Nazi ideology. When all Jews, Slavs and gypsies must be destroyed. Well, we will continue to fight with them further. But there are adequate people there who want to live a normal life and they don’t give a damn about the war. And they were so intimidated by propaganda about aggressive Russia and green men that, in my opinion, this will play a very cruel joke with them. And what do we have at the beginning of the twentieth century and no one can even think right away? Everything is like behind an iron curtain of information? If you talk about Germans like that, which is very funny to me, then you can, by your logic, apply to us. In our country, in their opinion, everything is for the President and they are going to fight with Europe by order. By the way, because of such thoughts, wars take place. I repeat, I’m not protecting anyone. I’m just saying that you don’t need to see all enemies. I agree that it is better with a good word and Colt, you can do much more than just a good word. There is no need to lose vigilance. But treating them all as enemies is a dead end.
            2. tracer
              tracer 16 January 2018 02: 20
              0
              “Normal” is when he says to you in a whisper that everything’s okay and in public he’ll wring his hands in hysterics.
              1. Buffet
                Buffet 16 January 2018 20: 50
                0
                The same can be said about you. Judging by your profile picture ...
    3. Lev Bronsch
      Lev Bronsch 11 January 2018 09: 27
      +7
      A small addition - ethnically Khrushchev was Russian and at the place of birth, too, Google to help you)). BUT! Georgia quite officially, at the legislative level, recognized all (all!) Legislative acts of the USSR as invalid on the territory of Georgia. And after that, she was very surprised at the absolutely legal, according to the laws of modern Georgia, the withdrawal of Abkhazia from its composition belay . Further, the history is known - a military campaign for the united and indivisible, the receipt of the truffles and the eternal whining about how Russia, Russia !! offended them, conquered them and so on ... Rotten folk negative . Rather, reborn from receiving unearned goods under the USSR.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 11 January 2018 10: 10
        +1
        Khrushchev was a Ukrainian. No wonder Stalin forced Mykitka to dance hopak at parties of the highest leadership of the USSR to entertain guests. Stalin never took Khrushchev seriously, considering him a fool and a clown, but kept with him due to his extraordinary helpfulness and zeal to fulfill any order of Stalin. Khrushchev, despite his stupidity, insider sensed and saw Stalin’s attitude towards himself, and was filled with fierce hatred for him, skillfully hiding his hatred under the guise of helpfulness and devotion to Stalin. Therefore, when Stalin died, he cleaned up all of Stalin's comrades-in-arms, primarily Beria, and in 1956, when he seized all power, he began to settle scores with the dead lion.
        1. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 17 January 2018 15: 22
          0
          Khrushchev was Russian. In Kalinovka, the Russian population. This settlement in the Kursk region still exists. By the way, both Khrushchev and Brezhnev have Kursk roots. Stalin took Khrushchev quite seriously. In the second half of the 40s and early 50s. Khrushchev was really the third or fourth most influential person in the country's leadership.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 18 January 2018 08: 54
            0
            Not necessarily if the person is from the RSFSR, then he is necessarily Russian. Just as a person is not necessarily a crest if he comes from Ukraine. In Ukraine, several million Russians, especially in the Donbass, in the same way, in Russia there are also several million Ukrainians. Klim Chugunkin, a Ukrainian foreign minister, who had come to his head, hails from Kursk and graduated from Moscow University, but this does not mean that he is Russian.
            1. Sergej1972
              Sergej1972 19 January 2018 17: 49
              0
              In the village of Kalinovka, Russian people live. And they lived there. And Khrushchev considered himself Russian.
              1. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya 19 January 2018 20: 23
                0
                I write again: if a person was born in Russia, this does not mean that he is Russian !!! It also does not mean that if a person was born in Poland, then he is not a Pole !!! Is it clear now?
                So you move to Nigeria, and you become blacks?
                1. Sergej1972
                  Sergej1972 21 January 2018 01: 03
                  0
                  If a person is ethnic Russian, then he is Russian, wherever he was born. Khrushchev was an ethnic Russian born in a Russian village, he was Russian and self-aware. Nowhere and never did he call himself a Ukrainian. And in all Soviet reference publications in the 30-60s. he was designated as Russian. And in Ukraine, no one has ever considered Khrushchev to be Ukrainian. Here Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev, for that matter, was most likely a semi-Ukrainian.
                  1. Kot_Kuzya
                    Kot_Kuzya 21 January 2018 08: 40
                    0
                    Khrushchev was Ukrainian, so he was put on the post of First Secretary of the Ukrainian SSR. A non-Ukrainian would not have been put on such a high post. In the USSR there was an unwritten rule that the first secretary of the union and autonomous republics should be a man of the titular nationality. Here the Second and Third Secretaries could already be Russians or someone else of another nationality.
                    1. Sergej1972
                      Sergej1972 29 January 2018 13: 55
                      0
                      I wrote you two large comments with examples and personalities on this issue, but for some reason they disappeared.)) Repeat laziness. Therefore, briefly. Such a practice was finally formed only at the time of Khrushchev and Brezhnev. And that is not without exception. See: Russians Brezhnev, Yakovlev and Belyaev, Ukrainian Ponomarenko and Uyghur Yusupov at the head of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan under Khrushchev and Kolbin under Gorbachev. I’m definitely not sure, but Tikhon Kiselev, a native of the Old Believer family, is more likely Russian, not Belarusian. He headed the Central Committee in Belarus between Masherov and Slyunkov. Under Stalin, the "titular" First Secretaries were elected in the Baltic states, Transcaucasia, Central Asia. In the Ukrainian, Byelorussian, Moldavian and existing in 1940-1956. The situation in the Karelian-Finnish USSR was somewhat different. In Ukraine, the responsible, First and General (this was the only republic where the Secretary General of the Central Committee was elected in the first half of the 30s) was the Russian secretaries Molotov, Manuilsky, Khrushchev, Melnikov, Pole Kosior, Jews Kaganovich (twice), Kon, Volga German Quirking In Belarus, party leadership changed frequently. At the head were Lithuanians, Poles, Jews, Russians, Ukrainians (the most famous Ukrainian at the head of the Central Committee of Belarus was Ponomarenko, though he was originally from the Krasnodar Territory). In the Karelian-Finnish SSR, all the first secretaries were Russian. The Karelians were the Speakers of the Council of Ministers, and that is not all. The only thing in this republic is Finnish Kuusinen. The Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Council had a greater political weight than the First Secretaries of the Central Committee. This was not a typical Soviet situation. In Moldova, under Stalin, the first secretaries of the Central Committee were Ukrainians and Russians, including Brezhnev. In Kazakhstan under Stalin, both Kazakhs and representatives of other nationalities were elected. In the autonomous republics there was no single system. But at the head of the regional committees (there were precisely regional committees in the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic) both under "Stalin" and after it became "titular", and Russians, and representatives of the "titular" nationality of the Union Republic (in the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic outside the RSFSR). Moreover, there was no single system. Different autonomies had a different situation. But in the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, autonomous regions and autonomous regions, Russians very often were the first secretaries under Khrushchev and Brezhnev.
                      As for the Russians at the head of the national Central Committees and regional committees, in some cases they were local Russians, in others they arrived, sent by the center from the central apparatus or from other regions. Thus, Khrushchev, although he was Russian by nationality and was born on the territory of modern Russia, was nevertheless considered his own, local, Ukrainian, Donbass cadre. For from a young age was associated with the Donbass.
                      In the Baltic states and Moldova there was still such an option. The highest positions in the party and government were often appointed by Latvians, Estonians, Moldovans, (less often Lithuanians), but Russified, born in Russia, Ukraine or other regions, or spent the whole or most of their conscious lives outside their republics. Examples are Vaino in Estonia (his grandson now heads the presidential administration), Pelshe in Latvia, Bodiul in Moldova.
                      By the way, just the second secretaries in the union and autonomous republics (and often at the level of their regions and partially cities and regions) were most often Russians. More precisely, people from other regions, not necessarily Russian by nationality. An example is the Moldovan Luchinsky as the Second Secretary of the Central Committee in Tajikistan. The local Russian had practically no chance of becoming a second secretary.
                      However, if the first secretary was a Russian or a representative of another people of the USSR, the local “titular” could be elected as the second secretary. And when a visiting comrade went to another region or to increase to the center, this second secretary from the local, as a rule, was elected as the next first secretary.
                      I emphasize once again that there were a lot of exceptions to the rules in this system. One can find examples when both the first and second secretaries, especially in Transcaucasia under Stalin, were from the “titular” ones. And, on the contrary, occasionally both the first and second secretaries could not be from the titular, not from the local ones, as in Kazakhstan in the mid-50s.
                      In general, there was still such a pattern. At the posts of the Speakers of the Council of Ministers, the chairmen of the regional executive committees, that is, in the system of the state apparatus, the percentage of "titular" was always higher than among the first secretaries of the Central Committee and regional committees. And the symbolic, but nevertheless honorable and influential post of the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Council in the Union and Autonomous Republics was almost always replaced by “titular” ones. Most often there was such an option - of the leading trinity (First Secretary, Presovmin, Chairman of the PVS) in the Union republics, two were “local”, one of these two was necessarily “titular”, the second in the vast majority of cases was also “titular”, but sometimes local Russian or a representative of another nationality. In the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic in the RSFSR, in this troika there are two necessarily local, often one “titular” and one representative of Russian or other nationality. Often the whole trinity in the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic consisted of local personnel. but at least one of them was either Russian or a representative of another "non-titular" nationality. In the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, as a part of other union republics, the situation was more complicated. There, this trinity most often included a representative of the "titular" ethnic group of the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, a representative of the "titular" nationality of the Union Republic, and often a Russian or a representative of another nationality.
                      It turned out differently, but not briefly.))
                      1. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 29 January 2018 14: 06
                        0
                        By the way, in China there is the following practice. In lower-level autonomous regions and autonomies, the chairman of the people's government is most often a representative of the “titular” nation or one of them (if autonomy is officially multinational). But the main deputy is always in this case from the Han, usually local. Less commonly, this option is the chairman of the people's government from the local Han, but the main deputy in this case is necessarily from the "titular". The Council of People’s Representatives has the same situation. Moreover, if the chairman of the people's government is from the Han, then the chairman of the SPS is necessarily from the "titular". But the most important person in the autonomous region, the secretary of the CCP committee, is almost always from the Han people, and almost always not from the locals.
                2. Sergej1972
                  Sergej1972 29 January 2018 15: 48
                  0
                  If a Pole was born in Poland, then he remains a Pole in any other country! And if the Pole was not born in Poland, then he, in the case of maintaining national identity, remains a Pole! Russian (Great Russian), born in Russia and in another country, remains Russian! I was in Kalinovka! In this village there is a solid Russian population! And in Soviet times, the Russian, who moved to another republic, had no need to classify himself as the titular ethnic group of this republic. Neither in Khrushchev's memoirs, nor in his memoirs are there a single hint. testifying that he was Ukrainian. Moreover, official propaganda in the Stalin era always indicated that Khrushchev was Russian. And being the leader of the Ukrainian SSR for many years, he naturally defended the interests of the republic as much as possible and at the level of his understanding. He did the same for Moscow, being the first secretary of MK VKP (b).
      2. Olezhek
        11 January 2018 13: 03
        0
        BUT! Georgia quite officially, at the legislative level, recognized all (all!) Legislative acts of the USSR as invalid in Georgia. And after that I was very surprised


        On which "territory of Georgia"? She has historically been very different ...
        Or did the acts of the USSR become invalid on the territory of the GSSR?
        Smishno. lol
      3. Lelek
        Lelek 11 January 2018 15: 58
        0
        Quote: Lev Bronsch
        And after that, she was very surprised at the absolutely legal, according to the laws of modern Georgia, the withdrawal of Abkhazia from its composition

        hi namesake.
        This happens in waves throughout the post-Soviet space (a parade of sovereignty, however). Romania has already begun to shake (I’m not talking about the former Ukraine):
      4. antivirus
        antivirus 13 January 2018 08: 45
        0
        off topic:
        wrote a year ago--
        antivirus 2 Today, 08:54
        TA war ... it will seem to grandchildren that it was as long as for us
        as "the time of Ochakov and the conquest of Crimea"
        May 9, 82 g after the relay, in honor of Victory Day, at Victory Square (where the start and finish) go to school.
        To meet me, not an old man, in a nice linen suit, 3 rows of planks, gray-haired, with a black and gray-haired mustache: "Stalin had Georgians' favorites, they were sent to tank troops, so many were burned out"
        not verbatim. You always do not remember and understand the main thing in life. Why did he speak with a stranger? Did the veteran himself see this and could not remain silent?
        I remembered now - a photo with tumbled out of the hatch, charred
        Georgia deserved blood (part of it) and used and did not become our supporters (burned out) - dr. Part of the people against us. it means they will live
      5. Ehanatone
        Ehanatone 10 February 2018 04: 17
        -1
        Worse, even not all Poles treat us badly!
    4. Uxus
      Uxus 11 January 2018 16: 21
      0
      - How was the situation that Russia stopped growing tobacco?
      - There are many reasons, but in Soviet times, tobacco was mainly grown not in the RSFSR, but in other republics of the Union: in Ukraine, Moldova and Central Asia. In the RSFSR, tobacco was grown on the territory of the Krasnodar Territory, in some republics of the North Caucasus. On the territory of Russia, about 20 thousand tons of raw tobacco were produced per year with a total demand of about 350 thousand tons. This is about 6 percent. In total, the Soviet Union produced 80-85 percent of tobacco raw materials from its needs. The remaining 15 percent was purchased from foreign countries: Bulgaria, Romania, India ... That is, basically the country satisfied the needs of its tobacco industry through the production of its own raw materials.

      Burn, Cat, burn! ...
    5. Uxus
      Uxus 11 January 2018 16: 24
      0
      In the 50-70s, the Soviet Union began to export tea. Abroad, Georgian, Azerbaijani and Krasnodar tea was called the general concept - “Russian”, so this tea was delivered to Mongolia, South Yemen, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, Poland, East Germany, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia. Indispensable and very appreciated by Buryats, Khakasses, Tuvans, brick and tiled tea was supplied to Asia.

      Burn more ...
      1. already a Muscovite
        already a Muscovite 11 January 2018 23: 10
        0
        Quote: Uxus
        In the 50-70s, the Soviet Union began to export tea

        In those days, the USSR could export manure for thanks ... Where now is this "dust of Georgian roads"? The merit of Georgian products on the USSR market is by no means Georgian ...
        1. Olezhek
          12 January 2018 08: 05
          0
          In those days, the USSR could export manure for thanks ..


          By the way, manure today is a very valuable weight
          (natural organic (!) fertilizer)
          And guano was exported to some countries quite well ...
    6. Uxus
      Uxus 11 January 2018 16: 29
      0
      In the tenth five-year plan, our country produced 814 thousand tons of citrus fruits with a plan of 764 thousand tons. A further increase in the gross output in the eleventh five-year plan is planned not due to the growth of areas, but mainly due to the intensification of the industry. To better meet the needs of the population for citrus fruits, the border for their cultivation is expanding significantly: industrial plantings of oranges, lemons and tangerines are laid in the republics of Central Asia, the Krasnodar Territory and the Azerbaijan SSR. In recent years, several million fruits have been harvested annually in trench stands and in the greenhouse limonaria of the Uzbek SSR. Over the years of the eleventh five-year plan, it is planned to lay over 50 hectares of citrus plantations in greenhouses and trenches in the republic.

      The trench citrus culture in the Central Asian republics is based on soil heat transfer in winter. Even in severe frosts (22-25 ° C), the temperature in the trenches does not fall below 0 ° C.

      In 1966, in the Vakhsh district of the Tajik SSR, create the first specialized citrus state farm in Central Asia, laying over 36 hectares of citrus crops in a trench method. The yield of lemons of the Meyer variety in this farm is 562 centners per 1 ha, and the varieties of Villa Franca are 358 centners (Grezinger, 1976). In total, about 50 farms located in the Kurgan-Tyube, Leninabad and Kulyab regions are engaged in the cultivation of citrus crops in the republic. Currently, the republics of Central Asia for the production of lemons came out on top in the country.

      Source: http://www.activestudy.info/vozdelyvanie-kultury-
      citrusovyx-v-sssr / © Faculty of Zoo Engineering

      Oh, Kuzya ...
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 11 January 2018 20: 29
        0
        Another rodent, skakuas or a liberalist? I don’t need for nothing garbage in the form of Georgian tea, tobacco and citrus fruits! I'd rather buy Indochinese flavored tea and delicious Moroccan mandarin. And what about smoking, I'm sorry ... I do not smoke.
        1. Uxus
          Uxus 12 January 2018 15: 42
          +1
          Did someone offer you tea or citrus? Do not be dumb. I poked you nose like a cat, what do you write from a lantern, without even bothering to check your knowledge, if you can call it that at all. And so it is with you everywhere. Waste garbage, not information)
      2. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 12 January 2018 01: 46
        0
        In the Arkhangelsk region they also engaged in the cultivation of corn, and in Yakutia - in the cultivation of wheat. But only with the collapse of the USSR all these projections quickly ceased, since the market quickly put everything in its place. Based on Soviet experiments, you will argue that in the Arkhangelsk region you can grow corn, and in Yakutia wheat? Yes, it can be grown. Sometimes, if the harvest is not destroyed by frost in July. But the cost of such corn and such wheat will be huge, and the quality of grain will be very poor.
    7. AshiSolo
      AshiSolo 14 January 2018 03: 28
      0
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      In the USSR, they preferred to buy tea, tobacco and citrus fruits from Georgians, even if they were of poorer quality than from foreign ones, but in the USSR they preferred to save currency and buy inside themselves, even at unreasonably high prices.

      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      Yes, it can be grown. Sometimes, if the harvest is not destroyed by frost in July. But the cost of such corn and such wheat will be huge, and the quality of grain will be very poor.


      Huh? The eye somehow cuts. It’s worse quality and higher price, then a huge price and poor quality - we don’t. Be consistent or something ...
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 14 January 2018 04: 29
        0
        Now it’s not the USSR, nor socialism. Now the Russian Federation is considered a capitalist country, so it makes no sense to grow at an exorbitant price and worse quality, it is more profitable to buy import cheaper and better quality. Georgian tea, tobacco and tangerines turned out to be unnecessary for Russians (and for the whole world too), as Indian or Chinese tea is tastier and cheaper, American tobacco is more fragrant and cheaper, and Moroccan and Spanish tangerines are tastier and cheaper. In the same way, why grow wheat in Yakutia or Pomerania, if you can get a larger crop and grow higher-quality wheat varieties in the Black Earth, Altai and Kuban?
  2. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 11 January 2018 04: 14
    +9
    They recall with longing “under the Communists” and do not really want to be friends now. We, for youth, occupiers and even Georgia’s joining the Republic of Ingushetia are regarded as genocide. But Batumi is already Turkish, all in mosques and
    there are places where Georgians are not allowed to enter. But they were a fraternal republic!
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 11 January 2018 04: 41
      +4
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      But they were a fraternal republic!

      on the “term”, the Georgians and I, perhaps, got along better than the Moldovans and the shit ... the mentality is similar to ours, they are also shared last and more unsophisticated.
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 11 January 2018 04: 45
        11
        Were! And now proud, free and .... poor! wassat wassat
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 11 January 2018 04: 50
          +5
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          Were! And now proud, free and .... poor! wassat wassat

          American political scientists work, unlike ours. request
          1. Uncle lee
            Uncle lee 11 January 2018 04: 53
            +7
            There are sober heads: "Russians come back"! But they will leave, and communications will break and there will be no "fraternal Georgia"
            1. Andrey Yuryevich
              Andrey Yuryevich 11 January 2018 05: 01
              +1
              Quote: Uncle Lee
              There are sober heads: "Russians come back"! But they will leave, and communications will break and there will be no "fraternal Georgia"

              it is true that the youth there already speaks English, they don’t know Russian at all, only the old people remember, they’ll leave, and that last thread connecting us will disappear.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. evil partisan
          evil partisan 11 January 2018 08: 55
          +3
          Quote: leo1946
          Andrei Yurievich, I hate snot, heard a lot of grandmothers and grandfathers
          This "jerk" for the good of the country and served and worked unlike you.
          Quote: leo1946
          carrying bullshit
          stop This is purely your cross yes
          Quote: leo1946
          half-ass

          And you, as I understand it, re-sticking? belay
      3. ccsr
        ccsr 11 January 2018 20: 56
        0
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        a mentality similar to ours is also shared last and more ingenuous.

        As for the "ingenuous" you greatly exaggerated, apparently took their ostentatious hospitality for a true attitude towards you. I won’t spread much, but talk to those who went on ships around the world in Soviet times, and they will tell you how Georgian smugglers paid with our rubles, secured with gold, or exchanged them at the exchange rate in different ports of the world. Yes, and their caboters were distinguished by this - these were they "unsophisticated".
      4. ando_bor
        ando_bor 12 January 2018 01: 27
        0
        Yes, the Georgians have the same impressions immediately, in terms of mentality they are closer to us than Asians or our North Caucasians, but even then I thought that this was a different country, although there was one state, and the Ukrainians were very different, which we are now observing.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 11 January 2018 08: 03
        14
        You may not have, but we did. And if you had a scoop, then we had the USSR!
        Feel the difference !
        1. novel66
          novel66 11 January 2018 09: 43
          +2
          but he cannot. atrophy atrophied!
    3. alstr
      alstr 11 January 2018 07: 13
      +7
      And they always do. Best of all they are characterized by the phrase of the buy from the movie "Do not be afraid I am with you": "I want everything to be new, but everything to remain the same."

      But this will not happen. It’s just that we have to move to the level of relations with the principle of “brotherly” republics for a long time according to the principle: “In the morning chairs - money in the afternoon, money in the afternoon - chairs in the evening”.
  3. unignm
    unignm 11 January 2018 05: 16
    +1
    and their Kobo half of the country who did not cut so deported.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 11 January 2018 05: 39
      19
      Quote: unignm
      gender of country

      Get small! 99% cut, and personally, with a blunt knife, and deported the rest! Therefore, the Gulag is empty! wassat
      1. novel66
        novel66 11 January 2018 09: 44
        +6
        not true! half the country of Koba. and the rest of Beria, a personalized dagger lol
  4. Vard
    Vard 11 January 2018 06: 03
    12
    I think that one of the reasons for the collapse of the USSR. ... This is just what the republics could not objectively assess the consequences of the exit ... In addition to Russian others, they could not be fed ...
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 11 January 2018 06: 26
      11
      Well yes ! Everyone wanted to be president!
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. avt
        avt 11 January 2018 10: 53
        +8
        Quote: leo1946
        Undergraduates, bandits, dregs of society, declassed elements, losers, not cooks

        Drove to the Internet and scatter their thoughts, with which they get rich fool The name of the capital, twisted from impotent malice
        Quote: leo1946
        They say that in Muskva, in high-rises, they didn’t even build kitchens, at the bottom there is a house kitchen, eat a meal.
        Well, actually, if there was a kind psychiatrist, he would get out of a state of psychosis, and then the same kind of computer science teacher would be drawn, well, to explain how to use a search engine to Polygraph Poligrafovich, you look and you would get knowledge about how in the world in large cities a system was organized in the USSR, called public catering, privatized in the 90s and operating to this day. But for now
        Quote: leo1946
        In the vastness of the country grayness is raging, losers, nedotomki triumph, the time of amateurs will never end.

        Well, at least he writes about himself that way - not everything is lost, medicine still has a chance to return a person to reality.
  5. leo1946
    leo1946 11 January 2018 06: 48
    0
    Quote: Andrew Y.
    Quote: Uncle Lee
    There are sober heads: "Russians come back"! But they will leave, and communications will break and there will be no "fraternal Georgia"

    it is true that the youth there already speaks English, they don’t know Russian at all, only the old people remember, they’ll leave, and that last thread connecting us will disappear.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. BecmepH
        BecmepH 11 January 2018 08: 35
        +8
        Quote: leo1946
        And rightly so, the nation of slaves and informers with nuclear weapons is tired of the whole world.

        Don't choke (those) in your own shit. Some kind of stink went on the site with your appearance. Use your training manual if there is no toilet paper.
        1. novel66
          novel66 11 January 2018 09: 46
          +4
          About "Henry said about such people:" The semi-chewed sounds that you make every day remind me of cow chewing gum, the only difference being that the cow is a well-bred lady and leaves her to herself, and you don’t. "
  6. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 11 January 2018 07: 29
    +7
    Russian / Soviet Georgia until a certain point was a completely successful project
    And would remain so if it were not for the collapse of the USSR. The Americans quickly picked up the Caucasian republic knowing that it always needed a strong host. In less than a dozen years, Georgians (especially young people) suddenly began to hate Russia, and then more and more on the rise. In a word sold for the opportunity to perform choral singing in an American restaurant.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 11 January 2018 07: 43
      +9
      Here I completely agree with you. I keep in touch with relatives in Georgia, so I know firsthand.
      1. novel66
        novel66 11 January 2018 09: 48
        +2
        and they will be developed by the Turkish version: NATO and the bases - yes, the EU - to hell with you!
  7. demo
    demo 11 January 2018 07: 44
    +6
    “It was within the framework of the Russian imperial project that Georgian culture developed (painting!), It was after entering Russia that Georgians ceased to be“ Asians ”and became Europeans. Of course, it doesn’t sound tolerant, but that’s how it was: Georgians got access to European culture in the framework of the Russian Empire and nothing else. Whether they became Europeans at the same time is another question. And for some reason, all Georgian nationalists somehow quickly forget that Georgian nationalism became possible just within the framework of the Russian Empire ..... "

    Georgia and Georgians - this is swinging by those who consider themselves to be elites who have never sought to become Europeans.
    From the time they entered the Persian Empire and the Ottoman Empire, they always had a lot of personal freedom and personal opportunities, despite the apparent subordination to the lords.
    And the Persians and Ottomans harassed to know their vassals. Flesh to mixed marriages and public office.
    Of course, if some proud, but stupid Georgian went too far, his head, just in case, was separated from the body.
    So Georgians always, from ancient times not only found a way to preserve their national characteristics and identities, but at the same time rushed about in search of a new owner, betraying the old and spitting on the signed obligations.
    This happened with the Persians, then with the Ottomans, then with the Russian.
    They felt that the United States would strangle and destroy Russia.
    And they bet on the Americans.
    But it is clear to me that such a development will not happen. They miscalculated.
    And there will come a time when the US Georgian Project will be closed. Due to my own problems. And a change in the vector of interests.
    And then the small but proud Sakartvelo will look like an old woman from the tale of A.S. Pushkin.
    This will be the end of their story.
    More to whom to stick and lean does not remain.
    And the apostates are despised people.
    There will be only one Georgian heritage, which they produce and transmit to the whole world - thieves in law.
    But that's another story.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 11 January 2018 11: 53
      0
      Quote: demo
      So Georgians always, from ancient times not only found a way to preserve their national characteristics and identities, but at the same time rushed about in search of a new owner, betraying the old and spitting on the signed obligations.

      You still exaggerate, in their history there were absolutely terrible invasions of the Persians, Tatars, Arabs, the hordes of Tamerlane - they could not be destroyed, they resisted heroically and were able to defend the Christian faith.
      1. Olezhek
        11 January 2018 13: 07
        +2
        You exaggerate, in their history there were absolutely terrible invasions of the Persians, Tatars, Arabs, the hordes of Tamerlane


        It was? It was!
        Cut it? Cut it!
        Burned? Burned!

        And then came the Orthodox Russians ...
        but somehow no one was able to draw the right conclusions in Tbilisi ...
        Which is strange enough ... belay
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 11 January 2018 13: 23
          0
          Quote: Olezhek
          Which is strange enough.

          But that is exactly what the article is called in the same way.
          Quote: Olezhek
          And then came the Orthodox Russians ...

          They have an ancient Orthodox Church, and Russia has always been a single-faith country, what is happening now is apparently Georgian paradoxes.
          1. Olezhek
            11 January 2018 13: 49
            0
            They have an ancient Orthodox Church, and Russia has always been a single-faith country.

            And in general almost no effect on the situation ...
            And Western Europe is like it is Catholic-Protestant ... and the whole Near and Middle East is Islam ...
            And yet
    2. zhekazs
      zhekazs 11 January 2018 12: 20
      +2
      Quote: demo
      And then the small but proud Sakartvelo will look like an old woman from the tale of A.S. Pushkin.
      This will be the end of their story.

      History spirals, as they say. The Persians, Turks will go anew "in a circle" ... Russia would only be excluded from this circle, we do not need them for nothing, even if they already live on their own in their own country.
  8. thinker
    thinker 11 January 2018 08: 42
    +7
    One can write and write about such paradoxes, how many offended from the former Union are clearly visible in the museums of the "occupation".
    Tbilisi - Museum of Soviet Occupation
    Kiev - Museum of Soviet Occupation
    Chisinau - Museum of Soviet Occupation
    Vilnius - Museum of Genocide Victims
    Riga - Museum of the Occupation of Latvia
    Tallinn - Museum of Occupations
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 11 January 2018 09: 17
      14
      The most interesting thing is that, best of all, in the entire history of existence, these nedostranes lived in the Soviet occupation!
      1. volodya
        volodya 11 January 2018 09: 59
        +5
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        The most interesting thing is that, best of all, in the entire history of existence, these nedostranes lived in the Soviet occupation!

    2. zhekazs
      zhekazs 11 January 2018 12: 31
      +6
      I would like for us to do something like a museum of ingratitude and black hatred for Russia, to remember our descendants and know the essence of our neighbors and not to step on this rake anymore. However, after a hundred years, the current tense situation with the neighbors will not look as significant as it is now, many insults will be forgotten, I would only like the historical memory of our descendants to be stronger.
  9. Antianglosax
    Antianglosax 11 January 2018 08: 56
    +2
    When the star crew gets crumbled (and this will undoubtedly happen in the not too distant future), all the former republics, which were sold to star-striped gopniks with giblets, will find themselves in hopeless poverty. Interestingly, they crawl on their knees to Russia or run to sell in China? After all, no one will have a third option.
  10. Northern warrior
    Northern warrior 11 January 2018 09: 13
    11
    The myth of the brotherhood of peoples was created by the Bolsheviks, so that the nationalities could draw juices from the Russian people. Contain millions of mouths so that Soviet citizens have the opportunity to eat free tangerines and peaches - the height of idiocy. For Georgians, going to work at a factory was a big deal, and the release of Colchis jihad mobiles can be considered a dubious achievement. If earlier the need to annex new lands was justified by protecting the borders from frequent raids, now now the need for this has disappeared. Georgia is not needed neither by Russia, nor Iran, nor Turkey, therefore its fate is to be a poor agrarian state on the border between Orthodoxy and Islam.
    1. avt
      avt 11 January 2018 10: 57
      +3
      Quote: Northern warrior
      The myth of the brotherhood of nations was created by the Bolsheviks,

      Learn the materiel. The Bolsheviks, or rather Lenin specifically, wrote a program document, “On the Pride of the Great Russians,” and the USSR was cut into the republic’s republic on its basis, in spite of the specialized drug addict Dzhugashvili / Koba / Stalin, who was not strong then, but even proposed not an autonomy federation.
    2. bober1982
      bober1982 11 January 2018 11: 15
      +2
      Quote: Northern warrior
      The myth of the brotherhood of peoples was created by the Bolsheviks, so that the nationalities could draw juices from the Russian people.

      That's right, it was. And no one in Russia feels hatred towards Georgians, this is also from the field of myths, maybe because, as you noted, Georgia does not need Russia.
      What to add, the Georgian Orthodox Church is the pearl of Orthodoxy, one of the few Orthodox local Churches that preserves the purity of Orthodoxy.
      1. Olezhek
        11 January 2018 13: 08
        0
        What to add, the Georgian Orthodox Church is the pearl of Orthodoxy


        Yes, yes, but for all these dances with cold weapons, for some reason, Georgians are looking at gay pride enthusiasts ...
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 11 January 2018 13: 31
          0
          You are mistaken, even priests and monks took an active part in brawls with enthusiasts.
          1. Olezhek
            11 January 2018 13: 47
            0
            even priests and monks took an active part in brawls with enthusiasts.


            Comrad, I’m kind of aware but even this does not make them "pro-Russian"
            They are against gay parades, but behind America
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 11 January 2018 14: 08
              0
              It remains only to shrug.
    3. Comrade Kim
      Comrade Kim April 5 2018 02: 14
      0
      Europe doesn’t need Georgians either:
      Georgia will lose visa-free visa with EU
      https://tsargrad.tv/articles/gruzija-lishitsja-be
      zviza-s-es_121939
      Georgian fraudsters and criminals have looked into Europe before, but now it has become a system. According to German authorities, up to 60% of Georgian citizens who have been prosecuted have committed crimes in the Federal Republic of Germany, awaiting the consideration of asylum requests. Moreover, in the period between the beginning of this procedure and the denial of naturalization, they did not sit idle, robbing mainly the houses of law-abiding burghers. Georgian criminals specialize in this.
      Mastery, as they say, you won’t drink.
  11. Stepan Kudinov
    Stepan Kudinov 11 January 2018 10: 18
    +4
    Georgians - Ivan, do not remember kinship. Here the cat Kuzya writes about I.V. Stalin that he, de, indulged the Georgians. May be. But then how do you understand the dill: Khrushchev and Brezhnev - after all, with them in Georgia there was an increase in income as much as 40 times. Century would not see them and dill near Russia.
    1. zhekazs
      zhekazs 11 January 2018 13: 00
      +5
      Georgians, if their brains were in place, as early as the 2010s, they could begin to live normally. We had to repent of our crimes, cleanse ourselves of the amerzi and their crazy ideas, offer us high-quality wines from new factories, environmentally friendly agricultural products, build luxurious resorts for the Russians and offer quality service - we would think about their behavior, maybe we would buy this is an offer. Everything is in their hands, come, apologize and ask us to buy their services. And nothing else - only on such conditions! Do not want? Let them continue to sit in their proud and independent, impoverished cesspool. I like Abkhazian and Moroccan tangerines with oranges, and I am silent about resorts. If these du.raki do not see their benefit, in the form of a huge market of the Russian Federation - this is their problem, not the buyer should go to ask, the seller should ask to buy his goods.
  12. ibirus
    ibirus 11 January 2018 12: 09
    +1
    The author is absolutely right.
  13. apro
    apro 11 January 2018 12: 32
    +2
    Let there be and what remains in the past, we do not need to return there, there is nothing common between Russia and Georgia today. Remember and draw conclusions.
  14. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 11 January 2018 13: 53
    0
    Quote: thinker
    Reply

    Everything is managed from a single center - from Washington
  15. turbris
    turbris 11 January 2018 14: 05
    0
    With Georgia everything will happen naturally, young people in Georgia no longer know the Russian language and therefore they will not be able to work in Russia, only in the West. What interest can Russia have in Georgia now? Yes, there is no interest other than maintaining ties with a neighboring state, "friendship" has ended forever, we need to deal with South Ossetia and Abkhazia. If these states hold referendums on joining Russia, then so be it, if they want to remain independent and independent, so be it, but then on what basis do we help them? Enough to be afraid, all the same, no one will ever lift the sanctions, therefore, having spit on all kinds of organizations there, as the United States does, we must do what is beneficial to Russia.
  16. South
    South 11 January 2018 14: 43
    +4
    So many nonsense has been written (((for example, “No, of course, one can theoretically assume that there would be a Georgian patriot and a big statesman who would do all this himself. Why not dream? Such an alternative reality would be quite like this for yourself”) But, as we well understand, in the geopolitical situation that existed in Transcaucasia and on Georgian lands, this option is absolutely incredible. "Princes are divided," and unlike Kievan Rus, these princes are just to hell. And everyone is ready to fight to the death for personal power, plus there are powerful external players that every prince is willing to turn to for help.
    That is, “voluntarily” no one would ever unite, and if there was some Georgian Oda Nobunaga, then his unfortunate rivals would instantly dash to Turkey and Persia for “help against the usurper.” Such is Georgian “patriotism”. Georgia could arise only within the framework of the Russian Empire and not otherwise. "
    Do the names of the rulers of Georgia such as David the Builder or Queen Tamara tell you anything? Under these people, Georgia flourished, and they united territory and added adjacent ones! Such a territory was under the reign of Queen Tamar. Here are some more interesting facts that probably few people know - At the same time, there was active trade with Byzantium, Venice, etc. During the Third and Fourth Crusades, Georgia was ruled by the brilliant Tamar, an outstanding ruler, whose name is associated with the highest exaltation of the Georgian state. Insignificant contacts, and that, with some degree of probability, can be traced during the Fourth Crusade, when the crusaders took control of Constantinople (1204), but it is impossible to talk about direct political relations in this period. After the death of Emperor Andronik Komnin (1185), at the hands of like-minded usurper Isaac II Angel, his grandchildren Alexei and David were secretly taken to Georgia, where they were brought up at the royal court of Bagration. It is clear that the grandchildren of Andronik, whom the Bagration brought up, and in whom Tamara saw the future allies of the Georgian state, sought revenge for the legitimate throne taken from their kind in Constantinople, in which the Georgians were very interested.

    The successor to Alexy IV Angel, Alex V Duca Murzufl, refused to pay tribute to the Latins. Having strengthened the Romanian army, and believing that it was already strong enough, he invited the crusaders to get away from the walls of Constantinople. The Latins responded by siege and the capture of Constantinople. But before the fall of the capital of Byzantium, knowing about the unstable relations of the Romans and the Crusaders who had adopted an anti-Latin turn, Georgians invaded Byzantine Pontius. They captured Chaneti, Trebizond, Lemon, Sinop, Kerasunt, Kotior, Amastrid, Heraclius and “all the lands of Paflagonia and Pontus” and transferred them to Tsarevich Alexy Komnin, who laid the foundation for the Trebizond empire. Despite the fact that the crusaders and Georgians were on the same side against the Roman Empire, there is no direct evidence that they were direct allies and coordinated all their actions to invade Byzantine possessions. In the subsequent reign of Tamar, the Georgians progressively expanded the borders of their state, and by 1209 they took possession of the North Iranian territories. By the time of the Fifth Crusade, the king of Georgia was the son and successor of Queen Tamar - George IV. George also had another name - Lasha, therefore in history he is also known as George Lasha. The personality of George is interesting in itself - he was a free, ambitious and bold young man. His opinion on the management of the state often did not coincide with the opinion of the oldest princes, former courtiers of Queen Tamara, which led to a conflict between them. The characteristic of George-Lasha that Kartlis Tskhovreba gives us is interesting: “Like Lasha-George was courageous, valiant, strong, majestic, proud, impudent, ...” [32]. And from this perspective, the hopes of the crusaders who were expecting help from the Georgians in the crusade are justified. The legate of the pope, Cardinal Pelagius, was looking for new auxiliary troops when the good news came from Georgia that the Georgians agreed to take part in the crusade. The monk, who reported the good news to the cardinal, told the papal legate about the strength and wealth of the Georgian state, about the courage and courage of Georgian soldiers, and their opposition to Muslims. In conclusion, I will say that Georgia is not so worthless and weak without Russia as the author says! But I am for the friendship of peoples and against the current policy on both sides. I know so many people in Georgia who are sympathetic to the Russian people, EXACTLY the people !!! And to the West they are very distrustful and show antipathy. In short, let the Russians come with bread and the Georgians with wine and khachapuri !!! PEACE to you people))) good
    1. Olezhek
      11 January 2018 19: 59
      +2
      Do the names of the rulers of Georgia such as David the Builder or Queen Tamara tell you anything?


      In the article:
      That is, “voluntarily” no one would ever unite, and if there was some Georgian Oda Nobunaga, then his unfortunate rivals would instantly dash into Turkey and Persia for "help against the usurper."


      Komrad: Turkey and Persia (that is, as if after Queen Tamara ...)
      Much later...
      On your map, Turkey, as it were, is missing ....

      In modern times, with the presence of Turkey and Persia and the absence of RI, the unification of Georgia looks like a complete fantasy ... No.
  17. alatanas
    alatanas 11 January 2018 15: 21
    +1
    most likely Bulgarians with Belarusians this also applies

    We already know that the author does not like the Bulgarians, but Bulgaria has never been a member of the Republic of Ingushetia since the 681 year — a unitary state. The first Bulgarian kingdom - 681 - 1018, the second 1185-1396, the third 1878 - 1947 and the republic since then, but not allied in the USSR. Belarus and Georgia are also no good to compare.
    1. Olezhek
      11 January 2018 19: 52
      +1
      The fact that the author does not like Bulgarians already know


      Stirlitz, you are anti-Semite! You do not like Jews!
      Well what are you, gruppenfuhrer! I am an internationalist!
      I do not like anybody! am
  18. Uxus
    Uxus 11 January 2018 17: 01
    0
    Quote: Uncle Lee
    But Batumi is already Turkish, all in mosques and
    there are places where Georgians are not allowed to enter.


    As you know, for 500 years Batumi was a Turkish and Muslim city, and it may appear that many large and beautiful mosques were built here, from which something must have remained somewhere. However, this logic is incorrect. Adjara Islam is provincial and peripheral, and its culture was appropriate. Islamic travelers of the Turkish era were surprised that there are few mosques in Adjara, all of them are small, wooden, and very poor, existing solely on donations. Only some mosques, only two or three, had land ownership.

    In the city of Batumi there were only three mosques - two stone and one tiny wooden. All of them were built in the XNUMXth century. Surely there was something before, but nothing is known about those mosques.
    The third mosque has survived to this day. This is the Orta-Ahmed-Pasha mosque, which is located on Kutaisi street. It is somewhat cunningly hidden in the alleys, but it can be recognized by the minaret. It’s easier to get there from Zviad Gamsakhurdia street.

    This mosque was built in 1866 (sometimes they write about 1886), about which there is an inscription on its facade. The building of the mosque itself is very reminiscent of an ordinary residential building with two floors, but something oriental is visible in the architecture and the minaret also gives out a destination. There are almost no photographs of this mosque, since its facade almost merges with the rest of Batumi architecture. This mosque is there, but at the same time it’s as if not. "

    Cat Kuzya is not your relative?
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 12 January 2018 01: 38
      +6
      Unlike you, I was in Batumi and saw with my own eyes Turkish mosques and Turks in fes. And announcements where Georgians were not allowed to enter. And do not shag grandma (cat Kuzyu) hi
      1. Uxus
        Uxus 12 January 2018 15: 54
        0
        And in our city I see a flying saucer near a restaurant regularly. Are you kidding? Find me info about at least one mosque in Batumi. And you know, in some states you can see anything ...
  19. Dormidont
    Dormidont 11 January 2018 21: 54
    +2
    ... Georgia is an Orthodox state ... Not a Catholic, and not a Muslim one.
    Yeah. Especially Adjara
    1. Olezhek
      12 January 2018 08: 02
      +1
      Yeah. Especially Adjara


      Well something like that...
      In Russia, too, the situation is somewhat similar ...
      And so it has been a long time
  20. KaPToC
    KaPToC 16 January 2018 23: 07
    +1
    Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
    You contradict yourself.

    It’s so convenient to blame your crimes on someone else.
    Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
    Well, we will continue to fight with them further.

    This is necessary, if not for nuclear weapons - the Third World War would already be in full swing.
    Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
    But there are adequate people there who want to live a normal life and they don’t give a damn about the war.

    They want to live well - that is why they want to fight in order to rob others and raise their own well-being at their expense, such is their nature, such is the nature of all predators.
    Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
    If you talk about Germans like that, which is very funny to me, then you can, by your logic, apply to us. In our country, in their opinion, everything is for the President and they are going to fight with Europe by order.

    However, this united Europe has repeatedly attacked Russia, but not vice versa, their opinion is incorrect, not confirmed by history.
    Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
    By the way, because of such thoughts, wars take place.

    Wars occur because someone wants to have a satisfying meal and live a sweet life, they need Siberia, and all without Russians.
    Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
    I’m just saying that you don’t need to see all enemies.

    Let their military bases be removed from our borders.
    Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
    But treating them all as enemies is a dead end.

    Why to everyone? Only to the Euro-Atlantic alliance. Atlantis must be destroyed again.
  21. South
    South 8 February 2018 17: 59
    0
    Quote: Olezhek
    Komrad: Turkey and Persia (that is, as if after Queen Tamara ...)
    Much later...
    On your map, Turkey, as it were, is missing ....
    In modern times, with the presence of Turkey and Persia and the absence of RI, the unification of Georgia looks like a complete fantasy ...

    But in this article, the author says that Georgia, from the beginning of the creation of the world, so to speak laughing could not do anything without Russia)) but what happened after Tamar is a completely different story stop
  22. EvilLion
    EvilLion 10 January 2019 09: 22
    0
    They say that we are pursuing the wrong policy towards Georgia, but what will the right one look like? At least about? Theoretically, what can be done here?


    The same applies to Dill, which we allegedly lost in 20 years. Although I don’t really understand how we would explain to dill that their state is only a piece of the Union, and they should be shoved with the MOV, far away, even if on 200% there are true facts.