Military Review

Baku declares readiness for concessions on Nagorno-Karabakh

307
Assistant to the President of Azerbaijan on socio-political issues Ali Hasanov in an interview with the Israeli newspaper The Jerusalem Post stated that the official authorities of the republic are ready for some concessions on the issue of Nagorno-Karabakh. Hasanov mentioned the possibility of granting broad autonomy to Nagorno-Karabakh within Azerbaijan, as well as full provision of the population, regardless of its ethnicity, to resolve the conflict as such concessions.


Baku declares readiness for concessions on Nagorno-Karabakh


At the same time, Hasanov noted that the position of official Baku on the issue of the permanent withdrawal of Armenian troops from the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh remains unchanged. Hasanov calls these troops occupational.

From the statement of the adviser to the President of Azerbaijan:
The occupation troops of Armenia must unconditionally leave the territory of Azerbaijan, the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the country must be restored, and the internally displaced persons must return to their lands. Our position is that it is impossible to create a state on the territory of another state recognized on the basis of international law, and also to commit violence on ethnic or religious grounds, using weapon to achieve these goals.


Against this background, information appears in the Azerbaijani press that the Armenian side violated the ceasefire by shooting at Azerbaijani territory. The usual response from Armenia was the publication in the Armenian media, claiming that the soldiers of the armed forces of Azerbaijan were the first to fire.
Photos used:
http://www.globallookpress.com
307 comments
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  1. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 29 December 2017 06: 53
    +1
    Good news, but it is necessary that all conditions are fulfilled. A post military structure is a difficult matter.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 29 December 2017 07: 02
      0
      Quote: Alexander 3
      Good news

      very good, we need to resolve this matter once and for all, and we will be calmer, or else .... a powder keg.
      1. garnik
        garnik 29 December 2017 09: 12
        +9
        very good, we need to resolve this matter once and for all, and we will be calmer, or else .... a powder keg.

        They have been offering this broad autonomy for about 20 years now. In principle, Karabakh (Ar.tsakh) was autonomous, but the last word was for Baku.
        There is Nakhichevan, in which the Armenians historically lived, even before the advent of the nomads, and who were forced out of the region,
        the same would expect Ar.tsah. Aliyev, the father, was proud that he did everything to squeeze Armenians out of Karabakh.
        1. Roskar
          Roskar 29 December 2017 10: 35
          +7
          Nomads in Azerbaijan and the Caucasus are Armenians. There is no need to once again wrangle about falsified and stolen from other nationalities "trembling"
          It is better to read the documents that you can leaf through and read created during the time of the Russian Empire and the USSR, when and how you - Armenians were resettled.
          Here are some of them: The Caucasian calendar is about changing (increasing) the number of Armenians. Griboedov's reports to the emperor on the fulfillment of the assignment for the resettlement of Armenians. The commission of Peter the 1st - how to relocate Armenians to Azerbaijani lands and even caress. Read Academician Vishnevsky, Velichko, Glinko, Chavchavadze and many others who can be trusted. And not your Armenian centuries-old deceit.
          1. katana
            katana 29 December 2017 11: 30
            +8
            Quote: ROskar
            Nomads in Azerbaijan and the Caucasus are Armenians. There is no need to once again wrangle about falsified and stolen from other nationalities "trembling"
            It is better to read the documents that you can leaf through and read created during the time of the Russian Empire and the USSR, when and how you - Armenians were resettled.
            Here are some of them: The Caucasian calendar is about changing (increasing) the number of Armenians. Griboedov's reports to the emperor on the fulfillment of the assignment for the resettlement of Armenians. The commission of Peter the 1st - how to relocate Armenians to Azerbaijani lands and even caress. Read Academician Vishnevsky, Velichko, Glinko, Chavchavadze and many others who can be trusted. And not your Armenian centuries-old deceit.

            Why are you enraged by the word nomad - it is in no way abusive. And the fact that the officials of tsarist Russia resettled Armenians from Persia and other places in today's Transcaucasia was what any empire did, it only populated the border territories with the Ottoman Empire faithful It doesn’t follow from your opus that there were no Armenians in the territory of present-day Transcaucasia at all. They were few owing to the policy of ethnic cleansing and targeted pogroms organized by Persian shahs and Ottoman sultans. In their times, the ancestors of modern Azerbaijanis certainly flourished. you were Shia Muslims, and for the Ottoman sultans no different from the same Turks. wassat
      2. xetai9977
        xetai9977 29 December 2017 11: 06
        +8
        I read all the comments with patience. and once again convinced that dialogue with the majority of the Russian audience is impossible, because it resembles a dialogue with the deaf and, in addition, the blind, who does not let go of the wall that he is holding on to. I do not mean ALL, of course, but the rest do not do the weather, unfortunately. How many times has this topic been raised here! I have been participating in discussions here since 2013, and things are still there, it has become even worse. Lies 1) Events in the conflict began in February1988 in Sumgait. Lies! In 1987, rallies began in Stepanakert demanding the transfer of Karabakh to Armenia. Then the first blood was shed - 2 Azerbaijani teenagers were killed. And soon, all Azerbaijanis were expelled from Armenia to the last man. Many died. Some of the refugees (who fled, abandoning everything!) Arrived in Sumgayit and this was the beginning of events. But I repeat, this was an RESULT, not a beginning. Lodge 2) In January 1990, the Russians were "cut". Impudent lie! on the contrary, the Russians themselves wrote on their doors - “Russian”, so that they would not be touched. And no one touched them.3) We are constantly “advised” to cede part of the territory and agree. ”What? You do not give in to the Japanese 2 cliffs in the ocean. But you are“ advised ”to cede 20% of your territories, by the way, recognized by the WORLD, including Russia? 4) Can it be that many here do not understand that by constantly insulting other nationalities here they themselves create the soil, because of which many people already hate Russia fiercely? and others. I myself know a person who has always been very sympathetic towards Russia, but after reading the site within a month, has become an ardent Russophobe.Do you really not understand that you really have not a single friend left in the world ?! By your logic, everything is around stupid, unsuccessful people who do not have the right to sit quietly in their countries and go about their business. Almost the entire perimeter around Russia has become a hotbed of instability. And it’s not the evil alien uncle who’s to blame for this, but you yourself! According to the logic of the majority, Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia should not possess and not about according to your "grace", they make internationally recognized borders. The Baltic states were saved by the fact that they are in NATO. and you set your satellite Armenia on our country, killing 2 birds with one stone and hanging them on a hook. Well, how much can the surrounding nations be tormented in this way? And after that you think that everyone will inflame warm love for you?
        1. katana
          katana 29 December 2017 11: 21
          11
          Well, what are you suggesting, dear? Where are the guarantees that in case of the withdrawal of all the Armenian military from Karabakh they will not be killed there? In addition, your example of the Kuril Islands is a bit far-fetched - the Japanese do not live on these islands. Your suggestions are what it is should there be autonomy within Azerbaijan, so that the sheep are whole and the wolves are full? Please, more specifically.
        2. armenk
          armenk 29 December 2017 14: 02
          +6
          Lies 1

          Sumgait was a response to the completely legitimate demands of the Armenian population on the accession of the NKAR to the Armenian SSR.
          Then the first blood was shed - 2 Azerbaijani teenagers were killed.

          facts and documents please.
          And soon, all Azerbaijanis were expelled from Armenia to the last man. Many died.
          but more precisely impossible? or is it more convenient for you to justify Sumgait?
          Lodge 2

          read it, maybe you'll learn something new. lying is your favorite topic.
          http://forum.topwar.ru/topic/1454-ob-istorii-pogr
          omov-russkih-semey-v-azerbaydzhane-90-go /
          Themselves do not concede to the Japanese 2 rocks

          you would first understand
          and we "advise" to cede 20% of their own territories

          I'm not even going to convince you that "YOUR" she never was. if that, in fact you have already "misled" it.
          What are the bells and whistles of "chu ... a", "h..p..e", etc.

          it is thanks to your bazaar tribesmen that such an attitude towards all Caucasians.
          and you set your satellite Armenia on our country

          no need to shift from a sick head to a healthy one. you drove yourself into this situation yourself, with the connivance of the allied leadership (if not impotence), betraying the corrupt party bureaucrats, spitting on the legal rights of the indigenous population of the autonomous region, and deciding to "pacify" the Armenian population by force (if not genocidal) methods. so there’s nothing to kick at the mirror if the face is crooked.
        3. long in stock.
          long in stock. 29 December 2017 16: 42
          +1
          of all that has been said by you the most important thing is this 4) Do many here don’t understand that by constantly insulting other nationalities here they themselves create the ground, because of which many already hate Russia fiercely? What are the bells and whistles of "choo ... a", "ch..p..e", etc. I myself know a person who has always been very sympathetic to Russia, but after reading the site within a month, he became an ardent Russophobe. so from dear, you earned such respect for yourself. with your behavior here in Russia. here and start remaking yourself - and you will be rewarded. if they’re normal. from and the recipe is simple. and about the incrimination of Armenia ... wash your brains from propaganda .. you just got a lot more from the Soviet Union and the economy and armaments than the Armenians, plus the population is much bigger. and you couldn’t nothing to do, too, the Russians are to blame for your inability to take advantage?
        4. hrych
          hrych 29 December 2017 17: 02
          +2
          Quote: xetai9977
          Themselves do not concede to the Japanese 2 rocks in the ocean. and we "advise" to cede 20% of their own territories

          Not 2 rocks, but four islands captured in battle, with a total area 5 thousand square kilometers, i.e. 600 square kilometers more Nagorno-Karabakh laughing But ... they are accompanied by a shelf and a two hundred-mile free economic zone and enormous strategic importance. As far as I know, no one here advises you to abandon the occupied territories, but states that it is impossible to return them, including the geopolitical hostility of you to the Russian Federation and vice versa the geopolitical union of Armenia. As they say, nothing personal, but at the head of interests. This is friendship with Turkey now, but it was (formally there) in NATO and after a downed aircraft it could be attacked with powerful weapons.
          Quote: xetai9977
          And after that you think that everyone will inflame warm love for you?

          Do everything well, you can kiss, but you will never be loved. Moreover, they perceived good attitude, assistance in enlightenment, etc., as the weakness of our people. Therefore, we learn from the Anglo-Saxons, who live by the principle - robbery, humiliate, punish. As a result, everyone is in awe of America and Britain. Of course, this won’t work out with us, but we learned how to hang up those who are objectionable, to protect economic and political interests. The same geopolitical interests and fear again drove many peoples into our allies, and the love between peoples was a heresy that perished from the USSR.
        5. MOSKVITYANIN
          MOSKVITYANIN 30 December 2017 00: 57
          +2
          xetai9977 Themselves do not concede to the Japanese 2 rocks in the ocean

          When Japan joined the UN, it recognized the results of WWII, respectively, and territorial affiliation
          Xnumx rocks in the ocean
          , the fact that they do not have a peace treaty with us, so we are not the only ones in the Asia-Pacific region who have no peace treaty with Japan and the same disputed territories ...
          You really don’t understand that you really have NOT ONE friend left in the world ?!

          You don’t need to listen to the Voice of America so often, it’s harmful ....
          Baltic states saved by the fact that they are in NATO

          Why did they get it to save her, the wretched population decreased by 1 / 3 after she left the USSR, and all NATO forces on its territory are a "prisoner of war camp" ...
          And after that you think that everyone will inflame warm love for you?

          Let's just say that if Azerbaijan grabbed all of humanity 1 / 6 parts of the land (not the worst) on the planet, then he would have no less enemies, but over the past centuries everyone who tried (almost always attacking with a crowd) to challenge the RI / USSR / RF right to its lands was losing its ...
          Well, how much can surrounding peoples torment so?

          How did the Russian Federation torture orphans from Azerbaijan? Probably Azerbaijanis are going to live and work in the Russian Federation, and not vice versa ...
          1. long in stock.
            long in stock. 30 December 2017 07: 18
            +2
            like this. They go and suffer. They suffer and go ...
        6. aws4
          aws4 30 December 2017 13: 01
          0
          you will not have peace if even here 2 Azerbaijanis and 2 Armenians can’t agree ....
      3. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 29 December 2017 13: 34
        +2
        Quote: Dead Day
        very good, we need to resolve this matter once and for all, and we will be calmer, or else .... a powder keg.

        The simplest thing that can be done is to hold a referendum and recognize its result by the two sides of Yerevan and Baku, whatever it may be. Everything else is verbiage and, as a result, endless bloodshed.
        1. garnik
          garnik 29 December 2017 15: 01
          +2
          Fair. I will write again, the former Nakhchivan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic is a disputed territory, but there is no protest from the Armenians. There simply are no indigenous people left.
          1. FLOOD
            FLOOD 29 December 2017 15: 41
            +4
            ... and they were not there!
            1. genisis
              genisis 29 December 2017 16: 44
              +5
              But the Azerbaijani writer Akram Aylisli in his novel "Stone Dreams" writes that they were. For which, in fact, you burned his books, and you promised him to cut off his ear. This is real tolerance in Azerbaijani.
            2. garnik
              garnik 29 December 2017 16: 57
              +1
              Until the 11th century, your spirit was not here. And already at the end of the 18th century you became twice as many, and now you are 100%. This is waiting for Lezgin and Talysh. Have you seen photos of your horsemen fighting with khachkars? Thanks to the Iranian border guards and this is a shock for them.
  2. Herculesic
    Herculesic 29 December 2017 07: 00
    +3
    It seems that the Israelis will become a third party for Azerbaijan through which negotiations will be conducted with Armenia! And the conditions were actually put forward by the Azerbaijanis to live together in Karabakh. But there isn’t the main thing there - the protection of Armenians living in Karabakh from oppression both now and in the future!
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 29 December 2017 07: 08
      +3
      Quote: Herkulesich
      But there isn’t the main thing there - the protection of Armenians living in Karabakh from oppression both now and in the future!

      this is how, in our country, these same Armenians with Azerbaijanis live and do not cut their throats ??? I see it myself, here they are, neighbors are drinking together, not fighting, arguing jokingly, but I see each other more than we Russians, although we gave them land where they can live in peace. request Highlanders ... somewhere in the liver, Russia is the enemy ... apparently, Lermontov knew something ... recourse
      1. Herculesic
        Herculesic 29 December 2017 07: 21
        +3
        They generally have a war in Karabakh, and here we often have wars in the bazaars over food prices! wassat So, the world is not there, not here! wassat PS - Greetings hi grandfather hi drinks !
    2. garnik
      garnik 29 December 2017 09: 25
      +2
      Unfortunately, Jews have been pursuing a pro-Turkish policy for about 100 years. Erdogash is the only bummer. Armenians are mistrustful of Jews, although there are great people among them supporting Armenians.
      Peter 1 spoke about the word of the Turk, and the Armenians knew them a long time before.
      1. zollstab
        zollstab 29 December 2017 09: 50
        +5
        When I was in Baku, there was a saying: Jews, take care of the Armenians, do away with them - they will take on us.
        1. Isstiqlal
          Isstiqlal 29 December 2017 11: 12
          +4
          Quote: zollstab
          In my time in Baku there was a saying

          just invented or what? laughing how tahih how do you land wassat crying
          1. AUL
            AUL 17 February 2018 19: 12
            0
            Quote: Istiqlal
            Quote: zollstab
            In my time in Baku there was a saying

            just invented or what? laughing how tahih how do you land wassat crying

            If anything, I heard this joke 40 to 50 years ago.
    3. Roskar
      Roskar 29 December 2017 10: 39
      +5
      Until now, the Armenians lived in Azerbaijan and there was no need for protection. The Armenians themselves are muddied and speculate on this. Dozens of peoples live in Azerbaijan and there is no need to protect them from anyone - only the Armenians are troubled and in the end they are again persecuted for their hostile and envious nature
      1. genisis
        genisis 29 December 2017 16: 49
        +2
        Especially happy are the Talysh people living in Azerbaijan, who need their own Lankon to be called Lankaranya for the sake of Azerbaijani tolerance. And the radio station on Talysh "Talysh Sado" generally broadcasts from Artsakh to the territory of Azerbaijan. Also Lezghins, who live in Dagestan freely respect their national identity, are not Lezghins in Azerbaijan, but Azerbaijanis.
        In general, many thanks for your "very broad autonomy", but it’s better somehow somehow yourself.
        1. Yujanin.
          Yujanin. 29 December 2017 18: 31
          +1
          The Lezghins who live in Dagestan freely respect their national identity

          E genisis, tell the tales of grandmother Haykanush at Armenian resources


          According to the 2010 census [39], 402 people spoke Lezgi in Russia. At present, the share of Lezgin youth who do not speak their native language is growing in Dagestan, which in the future may lead to the disappearance of the first literary, and later colloquial, Lezgi language.
          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B5%D0%B7%
          D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%8B_%D0%B2_%D0%94%D0%B0%D0%B3
          %D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5
          1. genisis
            genisis 6 January 2018 23: 24
            0
            Yujanin.
            You yourself do not understand that the table that you posted perfectly demonstrates the difference in approaches to the peoples living in the country in Russia and Azerbaijan.
            The language of the government site in Dagestan is Russian, because Lezgins, Avars, Kumyks and other, smaller nationalities live in Dagestan. Therefore, the site is in Russian.
            But the government of Adygea has a website in Adygea, the government of Bashkiria has a site in Bashkir, the Buryats have a site in Buryatia and so on.
            Show me the Talysh government website - in Talysh, but what’s there, just show me the Talysh government website!
            As well as the websites of the governments of the Avars, Lezghins, Tats, Udis, even if in the Azerbaijani language.
            You can dump the links right here, because you have 100% of them)))))
            1. Yujanin.
              Yujanin. 7 January 2018 12: 55
              0
              But the government of Adygea has a website in Adygea, the government of Bashkiria has a site in Bashkir, the Buryats have a site in Buryatia and so on.

              Because it is a state in a state, a Federation in one word.
              Show me the Talysh government website - in Talysh, but what’s there, just show me the Talysh government website!

              I will show it only after you show the site of the governments of the Yezidis, Greeks and Russians in Armenia. Have they even stayed, or expelled everyone from the mono country? hi .
              1. genisis
                genisis 8 January 2018 15: 30
                +1
                Because it is a state in a state, a Federation in one word.

                Because in the Russian Federation everyone is smart enough to understand that in a multinational state repressive methods of retaining power by one ethnic group always lead to an increase in the national liberation movement.
                Much smarter and more profitable for the development of the state is the free and equal interaction of various ethnic groups. In Azerbaijan, it was decided that the Transcaucasian Turks will rule, and the remaining ethnic groups have the right to exist only under the term "Azerbaijanis". Sooner or later it will ruin Azerbaijan.
                I will show it only after you show the site of the governments of the Yezidis, Greeks and Russians in Armenia. Have they even stayed, or expelled everyone from the mono country?

                You yourself give the answer to the question. Armenia is almost mono-ethnic. Other nationalities living there are so few that they can never organize into a real political force, unlike the Talysh or Lezghins, Avars in Azerbaijan.
            2. Yujanin.
              Yujanin. 7 January 2018 13: 00
              0
              The language of the government site in Dagestan is Russian, because Lezgins, Avars, Kumyks and other, smaller nationalities live in Dagestan. Therefore, the site is in Russian.

              Unreasonable and funny excuse. Probably laughed for a long time when they wrote off a comment about the LANGUAGE OF LEZGIN in Native DAGESTAN.
              1. genisis
                genisis 8 January 2018 15: 34
                +1
                Unreasonable and funny excuse

                I don’t need to get away with anything. Lezgins, like Avars, Kumyks and others, live in Dagestan much more freely, and much more with national rights than their brothers in Azerbaijan.
                ABOUT LANGUAGE LEZGIN IN NATIVE DAGESTAN

                Dagestan is not only for Lezghins. For Avars and Kumyks, he is also native. Therefore, the Russian language and unites them all. It will turn out differently, as in Azerbaijan, when one ethnic group usurping power will impose its cultural-linguistic identity on everyone else.
  3. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 29 December 2017 07: 02
    +1
    They do not trust each other. Therefore, the Armenian troops will not leave Nagorno-Karabakh. To take them back to the USSR, to nastylyat both brawlers ... Alas.
    1. FLOOD
      FLOOD 29 December 2017 08: 00
      +5
      Well, it is right that THEY do not trust. How to withdraw the troops from Karabakh when they did so in Khojaly? How to believe the opposite side, if in one night to exterminate 1000 people, children, women, the elderly and ask for guarantees for their own?
      On the account of “picking up and pitting” - with such statements you only repel all nations and nationalities, even your kindred ones, even those who have sympathy and respect for you, aggravate your situation and sharpen yourself in a hermit vacuum.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 08: 34
        +7
        Quote: TUFAN
        if in one night to exterminate 1000 people, children, women, the elderly and ask for guarantees for their own?

        And in 1990 in Baku you were soft and fluffy? wink By the way, the Russians got "good" there.
        1. Lekxnumx
          Lekxnumx 29 December 2017 08: 46
          +6
          There, in Baku, the Russians got more from the Soviet troops, who came to allegedly pacify the nationalists. And in the end, soldiers shot ambulances. From the third minute, a Russian woman listen to her
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 08: 58
            +6
            Quote: Lek38
            But in the end, soldiers shot ambulances

            And on the Ukrainian Maidan, Golden Eagle shot at the demonstrators! laughing Nonsense does not need to be carried - soldiers did not shoot at ambulances.
            1. Lekxnumx
              Lekxnumx 29 December 2017 09: 03
              +6
              Yeah, the car the tank drove over, just an accident.
              That is why there will never be Russian peacekeepers in Karabakh because no one trusts you. "You're all lying" is your only argument. And who shot in Baku in Soviet times? Americans? Or maybe local bandits rode tanks on tanks? Your arguments are not friends with the logic NO
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 09: 12
                +3
                Quote: Lek38
                Yeah, the car the tank drove over, just an accident

                Yes, tanks did enter, as did BB. And if the path of the tank was intentionally blocked by a car - what do you order the tankman to do? Take back half a kilometer along the narrow streets? laughing
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Lekxnumx
                  Lekxnumx 29 December 2017 10: 33
                  +5
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  You pretend to be on so many turns. The track is a VAZ 2101 car over which the tank drove. Inside two corpses are an old man and a woman.
                  Which car block the Baku Sumgait highway (wide) while sitting in the car? In the video above there is evidence of the crimes of the Soviet troops. And it is IMPOSSIBLE to block them in this case. Not a single normal person will deny this to any nationality, even the Armenians think in this case say a war crime against civilians.

                  You pretend to be on so many turns. The track is a VAZ 2101 car over which the tank drove. Inside two corpses are an old man and a woman.
                  What is a reasonable person blocking the Sumgayit highway (wide) with a car while sitting in a car? In the video above there is evidence of the crimes of the Soviet troops. And it is IMPOSSIBLE to block them in this case. Not a single normal person will deny this of any nationality, even the Armenians think in in this case they say a war crime against civilians.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 10: 37
                    +4
                    Quote: Lek38
                    In the video above there is evidence of the crimes of the Soviet troops

                    This is not evidence. This is analogous to CNN’s evidence of Assad’s atrocities.
                    1. Lekxnumx
                      Lekxnumx 29 December 2017 10: 48
                      +4
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      This is not evidence. This is analogous to CNN’s evidence of Assad’s atrocities.

                      You are not a piercing person, you are sitting in a tank. With respect to people like you there is a saying “even spit in the eye - God's dew will say” I would not block a scumbag of an az-ts who killed innocent Armenians even though they had a motive but to kill the innocent is a vile thing, just like an Armenian and a Russian he wouldn’t block it. For white is white, black is black.
                      For me, you are a typical new Russian, a new generation for whom all non-Russians are part .....
                      The Russian people defeated fascism at an enormous cost, but a generation later lost to it in their own heads. This will destroy modern Russia. I have nothing more to say
                      1. katana
                        katana 29 December 2017 11: 40
                        +3
                        Lek - you started a pointless argument with a Russian nationalist, trying to prove something. I saw shots of that crushed machine and I will not deny the fact that these shots are not staged. You better tell me how to solve this Karabakh problem today, when there is a level of distrust between two peoples rolls over.
                    2. FLOOD
                      FLOOD 29 December 2017 15: 45
                      +3
                      just like the events in the Nord-Ost))
                  2. Dry
                    Dry 29 December 2017 15: 31
                    +3
                    Quote: Lek38
                    even the Armenians think in this case they will say a MILITARY CRIME against a civilian population.

                    That's right, when soldiers kill unarmed old people this is a MILITARY CRIME, and when they also cut off their ears, this is even worse:

                    Do you remember that? Just a year has passed.
                    1. FLOOD
                      FLOOD 29 December 2017 15: 56
                      +3

                      Whose cow would mumble ... I hope the Armenians are not forgetful!
                      1. garnik
                        garnik 30 December 2017 00: 28
                        +1
                        This photo proves who controlled this territory. In my opinion, the correspondent Mustafayev is in the photo with a camera. Listen to him on YouTube, unfortunately he is not alive. He was telling the truth.
        2. FLOOD
          FLOOD 29 December 2017 08: 59
          +3
          Firstly, there was nothing in Baku in the 90th. Provide evidence. And secondly, that same 1990 year, like everything else, begins in the month of January and in mid-January, troops in Baku crushed tanks and shot people in all streets and back streets. But all this was done not by the regular army but by reservists, the entire composition of which consisted exclusively of Russians. You yourself asked for this topic. Do any of us blow it up here? So, you would cease to intercede for anyone. Wide wise guy with a narrow street ...
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 09: 06
            +5
            Quote: TUFAN
            But all this was done not by the regular army but by reservists, the entire composition of which consisted exclusively of Russians.

            Another nonsense without evidence, which even official Baku does not support.
            Armenians and Russians were forced to flee Baku, abandoning apartments and belongings. Is fecit cui prodest
            And at the same time, the Azerbaijani diaspora completely quietly crushed markets throughout Russia, without experiencing ABSOLUTELY any oppression. How do you like this justice? Do you want the same attitude to your people? wink
            1. Lekxnumx
              Lekxnumx 29 December 2017 09: 19
              +5
              "But at the same time, the Azerbaijani diaspora completely quietly crushed markets throughout Russia, without experiencing ABSOLUTELY no oppression. How do you like this justice? Do you want the same attitude to your people?"
              The Az Diaspora pays you taxes for your work. Each labor migrant pays your treasury only to get a work permit. And illegally working people are caught and sent back. What are you talking about? We are merchants for you. For you, all non-Russians who are between other people and your government are served by h ,,,, x ,,,, and so on. The Russian people are no longer there, the last generation is living out their lives. And all young people have nothing to do with the Soviet-Russian people. Every month, any migrant pays 3-4 thousand rubles, your oligarchs feed on them. Expel me anyway I would not live in Russia.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 09: 38
                +4
                Quote: Lek38
                Each migrant worker pays your treasury only to obtain a work permit. And illegal workers are caught and sent back

                What year did it start? wink By the time this law began to work, ALL your tribesmen were already citizens of Russia. And how they “honestly” worked in the markets of our country, everyone knows. And how many Russians are citizens of Azerbaijan? Do you compare the numbers? And then let's figure it out as a percentage?
                1. Lekxnumx
                  Lekxnumx 29 December 2017 09: 52
                  +5
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  What year did it start? By the time this law began to work, ALL your tribesmen were already citizens of Russia. And how they “honestly” worked in the markets of our country, everyone knows. And how many Russians are citizens of Azerbaijan? Do you compare the numbers? And then let's figure it out as a percentage?

                  What prevents you from planting them deported back? I’m more than sure that people like you would be happy to drive out the Az-tsev, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Kazakhs. But the authorities are more reasonable people. Although they meet with frenzied nationalism from people like you every day. Send back all, take away their passports, take away citizenship obtained illegally. And send back from starvation no one will die on a piece of bread and find yourself here. But then all the Soviet peoples will turn away from you as Baltic. You quarreled with your brothers Ukrainians, quarrel and with the rest. From the 90s you’re only losing neighbors and you’ll only lose such an approach like yours. And then the army and navy will really remain from the allies. And seeing how Hans foot entered Russian soil I won’t go to help you, like my grandfather did. I assure a lot of people that are dismissive and insulting even here, they will come to this conclusion. If they have not come, even the same Armenians.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 10: 04
                    +2
                    Quote: Lek38
                    I am more than sure people like you would love to drive out the Az-tsev, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Kazakhs

                    No, I would not have kicked out. I would just copy the migration laws of Saudi Arabia or the UAE.
                    Quote: Lek38
                    But more intelligent people are in power

                    More corrupt. A familiar Azerbaijanian received Russian citizenship a year after his arrival, and a friend, a Russian (cop), rose to the rank of major with an Uzbek passport. 14 years of citizenship could not get! How do you like this intelligence? Try such intelligent people on the realities of your state?
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. FLOOD
                      FLOOD 29 December 2017 16: 02
                      +2
                      Well, a flag in your hands and go to Saudi Arabia or the UAE. Present-day Russia was built on the bones and blood of not only Russians, but also Armenians and Chechens and Tajiks and Kazakhs and Uzbeks and the Baltic states and Ukrainians and ours too!
                  2. Yujanin.
                    Yujanin. 29 December 2017 16: 20
                    +2
                    What prevents you from planting them deported back?I am more than sure that people like you would be happy to drive out the Az-tsev, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Kazakhs. But more intelligent people are in power

                    Demographic indicators of the population of the Russian Federation are in the way. Do you think the leadership of the Russian Federation just developed a program for the return of compatriots to Russia?
                2. FLOOD
                  FLOOD 29 December 2017 10: 05
                  +4
                  Well, your fellow tribesmen are probably yourselves, because in terms of expression you are clearly letting you know that you belong to some kind of tribe and not to civilization! And my compatriots who are citizens of the Russian Federation do much more good for Russia than you. And yet, the Russian Embassy in the Republic of Azerbaijan gives out to everyone who indiscriminately and were born in the USSR passports of Russian citizens! And so throughout the world PR naturalization of Russia. laughing
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 10: 15
                    +4
                    Quote: TUFAN
                    Well, your fellow tribesmen

                    We switched to YOU? belay And yes, my fellow tribesmen are the whole Russian people, and I don’t see anything shameful and offensive in this. request
                    Quote: TUFAN
                    And my compatriots who are citizens of the Russian Federation do much more good for Russia than you

                    By weighting the local population? I am from Tolyatti, and everyone who has ever bought vegetables at Larina (the market) and the Polar Bear (the same market) will confirm with us - mainly Azerbaijanis are selling, and you DO NOT BUY a bag of potatoes without a kit. wink
                    1. FLOOD
                      FLOOD 29 December 2017 10: 27
                      +3
                      .... and how do people endure it? Yes, they would have been punished there for a long time! Raise it in vain, you can immediately see that the soviet ideology has not weathered ...
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 10: 41
                        +2
                        Quote: TUFAN
                        Soviet ideology has not weathered ...

                        But you have a pro-Turkish ideology of all the cracks rushing! laughing
            2. FLOOD
              FLOOD 29 December 2017 09: 56
              +3
              Fufland continuous! Well, come on, take the same attitude, if not dumb!
          2. garnik
            garnik 29 December 2017 16: 15
            +1
            LEK

            Armenian pogrom in Baku - ethnic unrest in Baku, the capital of the Azerbaijan SSR, January 13–20, 1990, accompanied by massive violence against the Armenian population, robberies, killings, arsons, and destruction of property [1] [2] [3] [ 4] [5]. According to various sources, from 48 to 90 (according to some sources - up to three hundred) people became victims of pogroms.
            from wiki ..
            Here is the reason for the entry of troops, the Georgians were forbidden to issue weapons. They prevented you from committing atrocities and you are offended by the Russians for that.
        3. FLOOD
          FLOOD 29 December 2017 09: 03
          +3
          On January 19, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR adopted a decree signed by President of the USSR Mikhail Gorbachev on the introduction of a state of emergency in Baku and a number of settlements of the Azerbaijan SSR. The decision of the USSR PVS on the imposition of a state of emergency was at variance with the current legislation, which in such cases presupposes the appeal of the Supreme Council of the Azerbaijan SSR to the leadership of the union state with a request for such a decision. The Azerbaijani parliament did not make such a request.
          On the night of January 19 to 20, troops were sent to Baku by order of the USSR Minister of Defense Dmitry Yazov. Mass entry of troops into the city began at 00:00. XNUMX minutes The operation involved large formations of ground, naval, air and airborne troops of the USSR, as well as special forces of the KGB and the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs.

          RIA Novosti https://ria.ru/
        4. FLOOD
          FLOOD 29 December 2017 09: 09
          +3
          Kharitonov, Vladimir Alexandrovich [5]
          1949
          Police major
          Shot on the way home in his car at the Darnagul bridge (the second bullet hit his head)
          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B8%
          D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BA_%D0%B6%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B2_
          %D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B8_
          %D0%A7%D1%91%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D1%8F
          %D0%BD%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8F
          I have nothing against you, but I advise you to simply view this list by reference. It indicates the occupation and circumstances of the death of these innocent people.
      2. garnik
        garnik 29 December 2017 10: 31
        +3
        [quoteWell, it’s correct that they DO NOT trust. How to withdraw the troops from Karabakh when they did so in Khojaly? How to believe the opposite side, if in one night to exterminate 1000 people, children, women, the elderly and ask for guarantees for their own?] [/ Quote]
        I wanted to give a link, my eyes run wide, I didn’t. I think you all read and watched. There is no need to speculate on the tragedy in Khojaly. At the approaches to the Armenian checkpoint no more than 200 people died, and the next day there were twice as many. Most likely they were those who died from friendly fire near Agdam. Some of the victims were disfigured beyond recognition. If you consider that there were more than 15 Armenians in the hostages, it is possible that they were. The territory where the tragedy was recorded was under the control of the Baku authorities. And in Khojaly itself, about 800 people remained who were left for some reason - then the Armenians released, first offering to stay in the city.
  4. aszzz888
    aszzz888 29 December 2017 07: 13
    0
    ... well, at least some progress ... no one wants to give in to each other ...
    1. FLOOD
      FLOOD 29 December 2017 07: 45
      +2
      What concessions do you say, dear? Will you cede your lands to anyone? - NO!
      So we demand the liberation of all recognized (including the Russian Federation) and occupied Azerbaijani territory. At the expense of concessions, they have already been told: the highest autonomy in the composition of the AR and security guarantees. And so, in general, the Armenians oh how wrong, they would sit quietly and humbly, now all of Azerbaijan would be theirs and the borders with Turkey would be open and live happily ever after. At the time of the scoop, they were merged with the local population. But in the late 80s, their diaspora from behind the hill began this entire mess with the filing of the Americans, especially John Kerry. By the way, the goal was the collapse of the USSR, and in this Armenians the USA was assisted by this.
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 29 December 2017 07: 53
        +8
        The collapse began with the Sumgayit events, namely the paralysis of the USSR authorities to curb unrest. And then off and on it went like a snowball. IMHO of course.
        1. Lekxnumx
          Lekxnumx 29 December 2017 08: 24
          +5
          Before the Sumgayit events, there was an event in Kafan, the Azes were expelled according to Thomas de Val in November 1987. The authorities concealed this, but the immigrants who drove them out and saw how happily the Armenians live in Baku, Sumgait. The authorities inaction contributed to what happened. Events that then happened in Armenia especially by Armenians and is not hiding, they called it the purification of their lands from the Turks. And all this happened in Soviet times!
          Armenia: twenty months of struggle. ” Collection of documents. Samizdat AOD. Yerevan, 1989.
          “With the help of the detachments that were created in advance, we can ensure emigration in every possible way. For the first time in these decades, we have been given a unique opportunity to clear Armenia of these Turks. I consider this the greatest achievement of our struggle for these ten months,” Rafael Ghazaryan called on November 4, 1988 at rallies Motive of the Armenians, they had an offense against the Turks and they consider the Az-tsev as Turks, that's all.
          The black garden of Thomas de Val is the only book, a titanic work on this conflict, where a lot of details surfaced. He rode and talked in Kafan both in Karabakh and Sumgayit. The head of the city denied but the locals themselves Armenians told how 2000 residents of Azsev left the city under threats of provocation, eyewitnesses of those events are still alive. There is no need to arrange the Sumgayit if Karabakh was anyway theirs, the motive here is obvious among Armenians. It’s just that most Russians do not want to put their vassals and brothers in a bad light.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 08: 44
            +5
            Quote: Lek38
            and they consider az-tsev to be Turks, that’s all.

            Most az-tsev thinks the same. In the 1918-20s, the Az-ts, along with the Turks, slaughtered Armenians in the NK, trying to evict them from the territory of the NK. It was after the collapse of RI. After the collapse of the USSR, the same thing happened. request
            1. FLOOD
              FLOOD 29 December 2017 09: 21
              +4
              HA ha ... They made me laugh. So their state was just created on the lands provided to them by Azerbaijan. You can’t persevere without knowledge. Have you ever tried to transfer Karabakh from Armenian or Azerbaijani? Maybe you and Krasnodar from Sochi also recognize the Armenians?
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 09: 44
                +3
                Quote: TUFAN
                Have you ever tried to transfer Karabakh from Armenian or Azerbaijani?

                I know the translation of Nakhichevan. Purely Armenian name.
                Quote: TUFAN
                Maybe you and Krasnodar from Sochi also recognize the Armenians?

                No. And by the way, I don’t like the same thing that these cities are becoming Armenian. I don’t like the fact that Moscow is called Moskabbad, because almost all food trade is in the hands of the Azerbaijani diaspora. If you want to live in Russia, it’s not a question; join the Russian Federation as the subjects of the federation.
                And yes, I would like to know your opinion about the migration laws of Kuwait, CA, and the UAE?
                1. FLOOD
                  FLOOD 29 December 2017 10: 07
                  +4
                  Maybe you will become a vilayet, especially since the capital was even renamed ?! wink
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 10: 09
                    +2
                    I asked you a direct question - would you like to know your opinion about the migration laws of Kuwait, the SA, and the UAE? Answer, or will you bustle?
                    1. FLOOD
                      FLOOD 29 December 2017 10: 19
                      +5
                      Yes, you discuss your legislation, a forum member with a Scandinavian name laughing And the Armenians, it turns out, taught the ancient Egyptians to build the pyramids. Then, when Moses led the Egyptians to Israel, the Armenians went to ancient England. In general, the modern British are Armenians. These are not jokes, but direct quotes from historians of the former Soviet republics. English historians have learned that it turns out Vikings descended from Armenians, even a protest was declared, but it was too late. wink
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 10: 46
                        +2
                        Quote: TUFAN
                        Yes, you discuss your legislation, a forum member with a Scandinavian name

                        In short, it is clear - I can’t wait for a direct answer. It characterizes you very “well” as an opponent.
                        Then I take my leave - I see no reason to continue. request
                        And I wish you and your fellow tribesmen to receive what you yourself sow. Nothing more, but nothing less. hi
                      2. garnik
                        garnik 30 December 2017 00: 42
                        +1
                        Did you watch Prokopenko’s idiot? So he apologized for allegedly hearing somewhere. Https: //www.youtube.com/watch? V = ISRK8FbkJ3
                        g look will be funny.
                        I’d paint it, well, it’s cool to chew in the video.
          2. garnik
            garnik 29 December 2017 12: 29
            +2
            A vassal and a brother of zasturkas, lek, if you are a Lezgin of course. Do you consider the Kusar, Khachmass, Gabala, Oguz, Ismaili districts the historical lands of the Azturks? Only after your answer can you be trusted. Although all that you wrote about Kafan is an ordinary Azturk duck. There is not a word in the Soviet press about these events. Even if there were refugees, then voluntarily, without pogroms.
            1. Lekxnumx
              Lekxnumx 29 December 2017 13: 15
              +2
              Never test me for “directness” you have already checked, and do not get tired of doing it.
              I always said everything directly, no, it is not the historical land of the Az Türks.
              Kusar certainly until recently, by historical standards, Gabala was the capital of the Caucasian peoples in antiquity. In nature, there is no Oguz region, these are Udin settlements of Christians. In Khachmaz in which the Armenians wanted to build another statehood the same. And Ismayilli is a modern settlement by historical mixed standards.
              In addition to the Kusars, all the settlements at the moment are diverse.
              Did you hear kureviyar? Kyurinians have such a dialect in the Lezgi language and the community has survived, so they started from the low-lying Az-land on which you Armenians also claim. If you dig around, they lived there when there were no Armenians or Turks. So in you shouldn’t like to climb this topic in the historical context. When you Armenians with the Az-ts (who consider themselves Türks) argue about history on the lands of Aghvan (in your term), it’s funny for me.
              And yes, the Az-ts can consider themselves to be anyone, even the Turks, at least. But I haven’t met any pure Turks, genetic tests say the opposite. It’s they that you showed the Armenians with the Az-ts are more related than the Caucasians. History is history but today's realities need to be taken into account and build peace, because more than one nation suffers because of you and your conflict. The Armenians and Turks want to consider yourself autochthons for God's sake, but round off your nationalism has ruined you. And in the Armenians it manifests itself more wherever you live there you start to think about the great Armenians , with these thoughts even reached the north, reduce your ardor. And now, in essence of the current situation, I’ll continue below
            2. Lekxnumx
              Lekxnumx 29 December 2017 13: 34
              +2
              Quote: garnik
              There is not a word in the Soviet press about these events. Even if there were refugees, then voluntarily, without pogroms.

              We have already spoken about this, I’m a direct person. I met the Armenians and saw you get along very well in Russia. The Armenians get along better with the Azs in Russia than with the Russians, but at the political level you are victims of geopolitical games. Always been a bargaining chip Russians in the region, the same Dashnak campaigns to the north. By the way, Russian documents condemn your actions, like they sent Dashnaks to establish Soviet power. But Dashnak methods went all the way that even patrons began to condemn. Here in the context of this we can describe the role of Armenians in the region for the whole history, the exchange change of which the Russians put under attack by the Turks and not only. But your desire to seize as much land as possible the desire of Great Armenia led to the region being paralyzed! The South North Caucasus today has the Middle Ages, although it has all the resources to be the richest region. Conflicts Georgia, Armenia, Az-na religious insanity of the North Caucasus did not have all this. Millions of Armenians, Az-tsev, Georgians and others were not in Russia or it would be great, as it was in Soviet times. You Armenians need to lose their power and the people of Azsam too, and think you want to live two nations peacefully and live well? Then solve the problem and bring peace to the region, drop hegemony and influence on the region. Ambitions Russians over the past 200 years in the fight against Turks and Persians did nothing good. This conflict is not beneficial to any people in the region, but I'm afraid it's too late.
              And the Armenians and the Az-ts understand everything that I am writing now, but there is no will, there are no leaders who would build purely economic interests and the region would flourish. But if it were democracy and freedom for other nations, it would be all right. Sometimes it seems to me. Sargsyan, Putin, Aliyev are people of the same team who are happy with everything in this form. But the commoner is not happy with it and everyone and the people of Azerbaijan and Azerbaijan think the same thing, except for the frenzied idiots of fanatics.
              1. garnik
                garnik 29 December 2017 15: 44
                +1
                I agree with you in many respects. But when you assert the guilt of Armenians in a fire in the South Caucasus, you surprise me. The Armenians just want the independence of the historical land, and this people that has been living for more than 3000 years has been continuously on this territory.
                And if your patriots remember their former heroic ancestors and demand at least autonomy ... I do not envy them. There have been attempts. I understand perfectly well that it is easier to raise the Lezghian for the banner of Islam than for their future, and the zakutkas use this. The Kurds also tried to help the Turks, well, they at least lived separately from the Turks, and the nomads dilute you with their blood. I don’t expect understanding from you, otherwise you may be noticed by some.
                And to live peacefully, we must ask those who came to our region with you, ruining and destroying everything around. Before their arrival, we lived as an example to many.
          3. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 29 December 2017 12: 53
            +5
            The authorities contributed to what happened with their inaction.
            good good good
            For the facts you have not heard. Quite possible. But I agree with you in the main thing - inaction, and most likely the LOSS of the then authorities of the USSR, contributed both to the collapse of the Union and to the strengthening of nationalist tendencies.
            Jin was released from the bottle.
        2. FLOOD
          FLOOD 29 December 2017 09: 15
          +4
          No, if you please, we will be extremely objective, at least as anyone can ...
          The first meetings began on February 14 in Stepanakert, and on September 18 a new wave of refugee-Azerbaijanis appeared in Baku, now from the NKAO, mainly from Stepanakert. And on February 22, the first blood was shed: in the area of ​​the village. Askeran, a clash of parties occurred, as a result of which two Azerbaijanis died - Ali Hajiyev and Bakhtiyar Guliyev. They opened an account for the victims of the Karabakh conflict.
          And in the evening of February 27 in Sumgait, the beating of Armenians began, which on February 28-29 turned into pogroms, stopped by special forces and police only by March 1. Bottom line: 26 Armenians and 6 Azerbaijanis were killed, about 130 residents (including 54 Azerbaijanis and 34 Armenians) and 275 military and police were wounded.
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 29 December 2017 13: 01
            +7
            "I will not allow it" (a joke). I focus on publicly available sources (TV mostly). Therefore, I can’t do chronology every day (what, where, when). As for the fact that the pogroms in Sumgait were stopped by special forces and the police ... I don’t know. In all sources (where I read) it is indicated that the pogroms took place for about 3 days, the police participated on the side of the rioters, and the special forces did not stand close. Communicated with the military who served there. Yes, the troops raised the alarm, but there was NO DIRECT ORDER TO CRIMINAL DISORDERS in the city. EVERYONE WAITED. That's why I say that the power has been LOST. This largely served as a prologue to further events - Central Asia, Georgia, the Baltic states.
      2. Hagalaz
        Hagalaz 29 December 2017 08: 02
        0
        Nobody argues with you. It’s just that war never generates anything good, and during the conflict, claims to each other appeared to everyone, regardless of who started first. Hence the common expression "no one wants to give in to each other."
      3. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 08: 39
        +3
        Quote: TUFAN
        So we demand the liberation of all recognized (including the Russian Federation) and occupied Azerbaijani territory.

        But please explain to me how the Nagorno-Karabakh differs from Nakhichevan? NK is located in Azerbaijan, but the population is Armenian. And Nakhchivan is located on the Armenian territory, but with the Azerbaijani population. request So decide already.
        1. Lekxnumx
          Lekxnumx 29 December 2017 08: 59
          +5
          It differs in that according to the 1987 census, 37-40 Armenians lived in Nakhichevan, and up to 600 thousand people became just a million refugees in Karabakh and other occupied territories.
          So try to explain to these refugees that we exchanged your million homes for the homes of 40 Armenians of Nakhichevan and the homes of 200 Baku Armenians.
          A good exchange of 240 per million? To hell with Karabakh, and regions that are not related to the NKR? What to do with them? And what about the people who live in kindergartens, until 000 refugees generally lived in tents and wagons. Explain the difference between Nakhichivan and Karabakh to them, I think with pleasure they will listen to you
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 09: 32
            +4
            Quote: Lek38
            It differs in that 1987-37 Armenians lived in Nakhichevan according to the 40 census

            Why do you only use data from the year 87? Let's take the 1916th, when the Armenians there were half the population. And in 1918, Turkish troops entered it, and exterminated the entire Armenian population. And in 1921, they held a referendum, where 90% of the population wants to be part of Azerbaijan as an autonomous republic. Interesting, right? Just like in Kosovo. wink
            1. Lekxnumx
              Lekxnumx 29 December 2017 09: 41
              +6
              Because we are talking about the conflict that began in 1987, the first skirmishes.
              Turkish troops and what happened before their arrival in 1915, for example, in the northern regions? Do you know or are keeping quiet?
              How did the Armenians want to create another Armenia in Khachmaz because there were 3 Armenian villages. Why don’t you know 5000 Jews left Guba from Soviet sources? We’ll find out and talk. The Dashnaks came and wiped the villages off the face of the earth and said, “Muslims will cut you off.” But they got their hike from the Lezghins and Tatians in the Bloody Gorge. Not a single Jew was hurt so far. But for some reason only the Armenians were slaughtered and the poor question. Why are they? Good Muslim co-religionists and why didn’t touch the Jews and only the Armenians ? Yes, because wherever they are, they have a place Great Armenia from sea to sea. And other nations live normally and continue.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 09: 57
                +1
                Quote: Lek38
                Do not know or keep quiet?

                In Turkey? I know - the Armenians crushed almost the entire food trade, just like your countrymen did in Moscow in the 90s. The difference is that no one cut you for this, as Turkish soldiers did with the Armenians in 1915. hi
                1. Lekxnumx
                  Lekxnumx 29 December 2017 10: 19
                  +4
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  In Turkey? I know - the Armenians crushed almost the entire food trade, just like your countrymen did in Moscow in the 90s. The difference is that nobody killed you for this, as Turkish soldiers did with the Armenians in 1915

                  Well, you don’t know, I’m generally talking about what the Armenians did at that time in the Caucasus against other peoples.
                  I did not touch on the events in Turkey, so read and talk.
                  This is how everything always goes down in history so soon we will reach BC.
                  There is modernity, there is a problem that needs to be solved. In this conflict, I only feel sorry for the refugees, this must be put to an end. Read what pogroms the Armenians arranged and then you have a one-sided attitude. Dashnaks because there is Internet there is time, take an interest and be fair. people’s hands to the elbow in blood for 100 years. But we need to live in the future and not in the past, but alas, I do not believe it. As long as the Armenians support Russia, this conflict cannot be resolved either in favor of the Armenians or in favor of the Az-tsev. Russia is not interested in a solution for thanks to the conflict, it keeps both peoples in its orbit. And it sells weapons to both, and they do not rock the boat do not want integration with the West. Everything is ideal for Russia
                  1. Okolotochny
                    Okolotochny 29 December 2017 13: 08
                    +6
                    In this conflict, both people have their hands to the elbow in blood for 100 years. But it is necessary to live the future and not the past,

                    Bravo!
                    While the Armenians are supported by Russia, this conflict cannot be resolved either in favor of the Armenians or in favor of the Azevs. Russia is not interested in a solution because thanks to the conflict it keeps both peoples in its orbit. And it sells weapons to both, and they do not want to rock the boat do not want integration with the West. ideal for Russia

                    Stupidity !!!
                    At our southern borders is a stress point - nobody will like it. But this is a given of the current moment. Tearing west from the Caucasus region ???? Did Turkey have much zeal for the west? Georgia? Georgian economy?
                    Understand the conflict to solve YOU - Azerbaijanis and Armenians. And do not blame Russia. By the way, the Armenians also "nod." I heard that the Azerbaijani lobby in Russia will be even stronger than the Armenian one.
              2. garnik
                garnik 30 December 2017 01: 00
                +1
                Read less newly minted historians. No need to write a blatant lie. Armenian units were deployed only to protect the Armenian population and punished the robbers, who often committed on Armenian settlements.
        2. FLOOD
          FLOOD 29 December 2017 09: 26
          +3
          I am amazed at your knowledge and ingenuity. Is there anything else to compare or all? You’ll at least google it and I hope you’ll figure it out yourself. Tatarstan with Ichkeria, with Bashkiria and many other subjects of the Federation is also located on the territory of the Russian Federation. Well??? That's as soon as you decide, right behind you and we ...
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 29 December 2017 09: 52
            +1
            Quote: TUFAN
            Tatarstan with Ichkeria, with Bashkiria and many others subjects of the Federation also located in the Russian Federation. Well???
            Ever (from the time of RI) at least one people was oppressed by ethnicity from the Russians? Just do not need to cite as an example the deportation of Chechens and Crimean Tatars - you know why they were expelled.
            Quote: TUFAN
            and there the so-called Armenian state was created on our lands.

            But the Armenians don’t know !!! laughing
            Quote: TUFAN
            or mow under a good brother?

            I am not good. I'm fair. wink I do not like it when they want to eat fish too, and ...... well, you understand.
        3. FLOOD
          FLOOD 29 December 2017 09: 35
          +3
          And who said that Nakhchivan is the Armenian territory ??? Are you really not delving into the essence of the conflict or mowing down under a good brother? The territory between Nakhchivan and Azerbaijan was deliberately divided just the same and the so-called Armenian state was created on our lands there.
          1. garnik
            garnik 30 December 2017 01: 06
            +1
            Why is the hero of Armenia NEVER? Here is for this piece of land that he defended. Shred that was supposed to unite the Turks. Did you not know?
      4. katana
        katana 29 December 2017 12: 00
        +5
        Quote: TUFAN
        What concessions do you say, dear? Will you cede your lands to anyone? - NO!
        So we demand the liberation of all recognized (including the Russian Federation) and occupied Azerbaijani territory. At the expense of concessions, they have already been told: the highest autonomy in the composition of the AR and security guarantees. And so, in general, the Armenians oh how wrong, they would sit quietly and humbly, now all of Azerbaijan would be theirs and the borders with Turkey would be open and live happily ever after. At the time of the scoop, they were merged with the local population. But in the late 80s, their diaspora from behind the hill began this entire mess with the filing of the Americans, especially John Kerry. By the way, the goal was the collapse of the USSR, and in this Armenians the USA was assisted by this.

        By your perverted logic, it turns out that the Armenians should have quietly sat on their ass in Karabakh and not “rustled” against the openly discriminatory policies of Azerbaijanis, otherwise, God forbid, the huge USSR could fall apart because of Karabakh Armenians? there is cheap propaganda - do you think that the forum is just nonsense?
  5. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 29 December 2017 08: 03
    +1
    The issue of Nagorno-Karabakh is not resolved within the framework of the Armenian-Azerbaijani dialogue. The way out can only be in transferring Nagorno-Karabakh to the jurisdiction of Russia, then this territory can become a link between Armenia and Azerbaijan and keep them both in the scope of Russia.
  6. Hurricane70
    Hurricane70 29 December 2017 08: 09
    0
    Quote: Dead Day
    Quote: Herkulesich
    But there isn’t the main thing there - the protection of Armenians living in Karabakh from oppression both now and in the future!

    this is how, in our country, these same Armenians with Azerbaijanis live and do not cut their throats ??? I see it myself, here they are, neighbors are drinking together, not fighting, arguing jokingly, but I see each other more than we Russians, although we gave them land where they can live in peace. request Highlanders ... somewhere in the liver, Russia is the enemy ... apparently, Lermontov knew something ... recourse

    I agree with you!
  7. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 29 December 2017 08: 15
    +2
    Quote: Dead Day
    Quote: Alexander 3
    Good news

    very good, we need to resolve this matter once and for all, and we will be calmer, or else .... a powder keg.

    Even in the calm Soviet time there were graters there. With what fright will the world be there now? If only how did Moses lead them together in the desert for 40 years? Do you need to completely change the thinking of these peoples, or unite them with a common idea, threat, or misfortune. But this I don’t see in the near future. This is a political game, hoping to get some dividends.
  8. Roskar
    Roskar 29 December 2017 10: 49
    +4
    in Armenia they are quite loyal to terrorists. What’s loyal there! Terrorists in this country, in the person of Monte Melkonyan, are held in high esteem by Nazi criminals like Garegin Nzhdeh and even erected monuments.
    1. armenk
      armenk 29 December 2017 12: 35
      +5
      Scrape your rotten teeth as much as you want. We have our own heroes and we are proud of them, and you have our own - freaks like Ramil Safarov.
    2. Dry
      Dry 29 December 2017 15: 55
      +3
      Well, in your understanding, the hero is the one who cut off the head of the prisoner, even your president gave a reward. And after that you can talk about terrorists?
      1. Seal
        Seal 29 December 2017 16: 36
        +3
        And in your understanding, the heroes are Zatikyan, Baghdasaryan and Stepanyan. And that's not all. The Politburo at that time prevented the office from digging deeper. For the Moscow Olympics was on the nose, which means that there should be no political terrorists in the country of developed socialism of the USSR.
        Otherwise, a quarter of Armenia could be held accountable there. At least for harboring and fraud.
        1. genisis
          genisis 29 December 2017 16: 59
          +1
          And in your understanding, the heroes are Zatikyan, Baghdasaryan and Stepanyan.

          And what did you decide to speak out for the understanding of heroism by others?
          Ramil Safarov was met in Baku as a hero.
          I have not met a single Armenian who would consider Zatikyan, Baghdasaryan and Stepanyan a hero.
          I can also say that in your understanding the hero is Pasha Pechenkin, for example.
        2. garnik
          garnik 30 December 2017 01: 10
          +1
          Zatikyan pleaded not guilty. The sentence was executed in 5 days. This record has not yet been broken.
          1. Seal
            Seal 9 January 2018 18: 06
            0
            What's the problem ? After all, the verdict was passed immediately by the highest court - the Supreme Court of the USSR.
            On January 24, 1979, all the defendants were found guilty by the court and sentenced to capital punishment - execution. On January 30, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR rejected the application for clemency, and on the same day the verdict against the terrorists was carried out.
            What was the pull? So that their accomplices who were at liberty (the Office didn’t then dig deeply - the Olympics-80 was on the nose) seized some plane or a children's bus and demanded the release of the criminals?
            Terrorists need to be destroyed immediately.
            1. genisis
              genisis 9 January 2018 18: 40
              0
              Again your illogical ravings)))
              The accomplices who remained at large (existing only in your sore imagination) are no longer the task; they have not committed any more terrorist acts on the territory of the USSR. Either the Office was given a deep dig, or the accomplices were not hiding deeply, but the fact remains.
              And Sergei Petrovich, as usual, has a psychotic-schizophrenic Armenianophobia inflamed with New Year's holidays.
              1. Seal
                Seal 11 January 2018 18: 32
                0
                Therefore, they did not commit that they were clearly shown to them what they would do with them.
                And in Genesis, as usual, psychotic-schizophrenic terrorophilia, inflamed by New Year's holidays.
    3. would
      would 29 December 2017 23: 01
      +4
      There is no doubt that you, as a representative of a nation that officially recognized as a hero (an extraordinary rank of major for the murder, an honorary meeting, etc.) the official killer Ramil Safarov, who killed the sleeping Armenian because of ethnic hatred with particular cruelty, knows where and what honor the Nazis and terrorists have.
  9. Lexus
    Lexus 29 December 2017 12: 27
    +1
    After all, they used to live peacefully ...
  10. Seal
    Seal 29 December 2017 13: 52
    +3
    Quote: Dead Day
    I see it myself, here they are, my neighbors — they drink together, do not fight, argue jokingly, but I see each other more than we Russians, although we gave them land where they can live in peace.

    On our land, and even at our expense, even the Hutus with the Tutsis will hug and kiss.
    I have already said many times that from a state point of view, we need Azerbaijan, not Armenia. From Armenia there is only a headache. Because of it, we cannot (and never can, as long as we occupy the pro-Armenian position) fully restore our relations with Turkey. Well, on fig, our State Duma on 14.04.1995/694/1915 adopted a resolution No. 1922-I of the State Duma "On the statement of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation" On the condemnation of the genocide of the Armenian people in 10-XNUMX ", and even in terms so offensive to Turkey? We need it What, really Rybkin (the then speaker of the State Duma) during his stay in Turkey at the hotel for free more than XNUMX glasses of whiskey was not poured and he was offended?
    Therefore, we prefer Azerbaijan. For he has no territorial claims to his neighbors. He only wants to return his own, which is confirmed that it is precisely with his whole 4 UN Security Council Resolutions, adopted unanimously.
    And Armenia, with our help, wants to take part of the territory from Turkey. And first of all Mount Ararat. Well, we need it so that because of the Armenians, because the Armenians want to move Ararat to their territory, do we have to butt with the Turks?
    Armenia by its constant whining that it is supposedly a Christian country and we, supposedly also a "Christian" country, should support it (Armenia), trying to split the unity of the peoples of Russia, among which there are both Christians and Muslims, as well as Buddhists, Lamaists, shamanists, Hindus, and so on. In general, Russia is a secular state. Religion is separate from the state.
    Well, as for example, Armenians believe that a company commander or political officer will have to explain a company of 120 people, including 40 atheists (well, go unbelievers in general), 40 Christians, 20 Muslims and 20 representatives of other religions to explain that we must support Armenia, for it is a Christian country, against Azerbaijan, which is a Muslim country. Nonsense !!!

    The objective reality is that we need Azerbaijan, not Armenia. In the conditions when Georgia set its sights on NATO, we need to build and strengthen the Russia-Azerbaijan-Iran axis from our nose. Our three countries, bordering each other, cover all of Eurasia from the Arctic Ocean to the Indian Ocean. And no one can extend any gas pipeline or oil pipeline bypassing our countries to the West. We immediately completely exclude any illusions from our Central Asian and Kazakhstani partners that they will be able to pull their oil pipelines and gas pipelines to Europe, bypassing Russia (or Azerbaijan bound to us). Not a single locomotive or wagon our three countries from the East (from China, Korea) on the way to the West - will not go round. Neither by land nor by sea (on ferries). And if we also close the airspace for the passage of aircraft of unfriendly countries, then flights of civil aviation of unfriendly countries will also be covered. We also fly around horseradish !!!
    But if we foolishly exchange Azerbaijan for Armenia, which is no better than Georgia, but unlike Georgia, which has access to the Black Sea, Armenia is in such an ass of the world that no one needs it at all and cannot influence anything - there will be problems .
    Showing on fingers.
    If Armenia joins NATO, then this will make us neither hot nor cold. We will just assume that the current NATO member of Turkey has slightly increased ass.
    But if God forbid, after Georgia, Azerbaijan, offended by our pro-Armenian position, will reach NATO, this will be a HUGE problem for us. Then NATO ships may end up in the Caspian Sea. Large ships, of course, will not appear, but small ships can very well be delivered disassembled by rail or road and then assemble them in Baku. In the same way as the Germans did in 1941-1942, when Turkey blocked the straits into the Black Sea with German and Italian warships. And then they will set up in Baku or somewhere else normal assembly production so that they can also assemble destroyers. At present, nothing is impossible. It would be a desire and money. On fig us in the Caspian Sea NATO fleet ????
    And it’s better to give Armenia to the USA. Moreover, it is only in words with us, and in fact, has long been with the United States. The Armenian lobby in the US Congress is the second most powerful after the Israeli. In Armenia (and in Russia) there is practically no Armenian family that does not have relatives in the United States or in France. Therefore, Armenians in general should not be allowed to access any of our secret military or secret state documents. Not without reason during the USSR in questionnaires there was a point: "Do you have relatives abroad."
    1. garnik
      garnik 29 December 2017 15: 50
      +1
      And your statements are the Turks.
  11. Seal
    Seal 29 December 2017 14: 05
    +3
    Quote: Jurkovs
    The only way out is to transfer Nagorno-Karabakh to the jurisdiction of Russia

    Maybe enough for us to load the problem? Let’s take some disputed territory between Ethiopia and Somalia or between the Hutus and Tutsis under our jurisdiction. Our budget is bottomless - there will be enough money to feed all blacks.
    And secondly. And who will theoretically allow us to take Karabakh under our jurisdiction? Let me remind you that in the US Congress, the Armenian lobby is the second most influential after the Israeli one.
    From the 2014 report on lobby activities in the USA.
    So, in the group of Armenian affairs of the Congress today (in 2014 - my footnote) 113 lawmakers are against 92 in 2013.
    The members of the Armenian caucus are the chairmen of the following committees:
    - for international affairs (House of Representatives and Senate),
    - for external appropriations (House of Representatives and Senate)
    - The leader of the Democratic majority of the Senate.
    The Armenian lobby managed to maintain the allocation by the US government of free financial assistance to Armenia and the NKR, to lobby for the adoption by the state of California of a resolution recognizing the independence of the NKR.

    That is, US foreign policy is largely shaped by the Armenian lobby.
    So, in order for us to take Karabakh under our jurisdiction, we will need to agree not with the Armenian Armenians, but with the American Armenians. And this, you understand, is futile.
    And it is unlikely that Azerbaijan will agree to lose part of its own territory recognized by Azerbaijan as the entire international community, including Russia. Even Armenia itself officially recognizes Nagorno-Karabakh as Azerbaijani territory, since Armenia did not recognize the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh and did not include Nagorno-Karabakh in Armenia. So, without having done either the first or the second, Armenia recognizes that Nagorno-Karabakh, as it was Azerbaijan, remains. So why should we run ahead of the engine?
  12. Seal
    Seal 29 December 2017 14: 30
    +2
    Quote: Okolotochny
    I heard that the Azerbaijani lobby in Russia will be even stronger than the Armenian one.

    It is unlikely. One of our Foreign Ministers is worth it !!!
    Take the same Turkey. What did it cost us to establish our relations with Turkey. Until Shoigu himself got into this matter, who, unlike Lavrov, does not have a biased attitude towards Turkey, the matter with Turkey has come to a standstill.
    We branded Turkey on an equal footing, or even worse, than ISIS (banned in Russia), and Erdogan on a par with the so-called "caliph" Al-Baghdadi. The Armenian lobby in the US Congress, supporting Gulen, led to a change of power and the subsequent collapse of Turkey. So that part of the Turkish territory, through the intermediate Kurdish stage, would eventually pass to Armenia. I don’t know how ready Gulen was for what the Armenian lobby in the US Congress expected from him, but apparently there were some promises from him. Well, our special services were able to prevent a coup in Turkey. And the conduct of our relations with Turkey essentially shifted from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to the Ministry of Defense.
  13. Spike Javelin Touvich
    Spike Javelin Touvich 29 December 2017 14: 30
    +3
    Quietly quietly no need for kipsh soon the most ancient cities of Stavrokert and Krasnadarokert will appear on the map.
    1. garnik
      garnik 29 December 2017 15: 57
      +2
      Don’t worry. As long as the cities that the Armenians founded in Russia are renamed, the only city in Armavir to which the original name was left. And Stavropol will soon be in the grip of the North Caucasian peoples, and there are many of you there.
  14. Seal
    Seal 29 December 2017 15: 02
    +4
    Quote: katana
    against frankly discriminatory policies of Azerbaijanis

    What is the "policy of Azerbaijanis" if the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU was already dealing with this issue ???
    The Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee adopted a resolution of February 21, 1988, “On the Events in Nagorno-Karabakh” // News. 1988. No. 55. Feb 24
    Was it done? No, it was not !!
    On the contrary. In violation of Resolutions of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU (namely, this body at that time was the highest body of state and party power in the USSR) in June 1988, the Supreme Council of Armenia (consisting solely of members of the CPSU who did not give a damn about the decision of its highest body) agreed to the NKAR joining the republic. And on July 12, 1988, the Regional Council of Nagorno-Karabakh announced its secession from Azerbaijan. In response, July 18 is already Presidium of the Supreme Council of the USSR adopted a resolution stating the impossibility of transferring the NKAR to Armenia.
    And in January 1989, by decision Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR direct control by the allied leadership was introduced in NKAO.
    Then, on January 15, 1990 Presidium of the Supreme Council of the USSR adopted Decree of January 15, 1990 N 1060-1 "On declaring a state of emergency in the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region and some other areas.

    So what else is the "policy of Azerbaijanis" there? The Azerbaijanis did not command anything at all.
    In April-May 1991, not Ring Azerbaijanis, but internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR and parts of the Soviet Army carried out the operation "Ring" in the region with the goal of disarming "Armenian illegal armed groups."
    Have the courage to admit that you did not butt with your neighbors, but with the highest state and party power of the USSR.
  15. FLOOD
    FLOOD 29 December 2017 15: 50
    +3
    katana,
    Very simple ... The military presence of the Russian Federation in Armenia must be put to an end! This is primarily in the interests of Armenia itself and the Armenians.
    I am more than sure that we will agree with you and we will prosper.
  16. FLOOD
    FLOOD 29 December 2017 16: 04
    +1
    Ingvar 72,
    and we, like you, do not confuse the national treasure (that is, the mind and customs) with state ideology.
  17. FLOOD
    FLOOD 29 December 2017 16: 06
    +2
    Ingvar 72,
    And thanks, soon we will inseminate you too!
  18. Seal
    Seal 29 December 2017 16: 07
    +4
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Why do you only use data from the year 87? Let's take the 1916th,

    Let’s better take the official 1897 census. Here are (below) tables, empty rows are deleted. Well, there are Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, Arabic, Yakut, etc. languages.
    In Nakhichevan county (part of the Erivan province) distribution by mother tongues:

    By the way, the whole Erivan province is in their native languages.

    If you don’t see anyone, I show that in the Nakhichevan district, with a population of 100771 people, 34672 people were called their native language, and 65151 were Tatar (Azerbaijani). Almost twice as many.
    And what is interesting is that the Armenian language is that the language was called the mother of men 16544 and women 18128, and the Tatar (Azerbaijani) - 35064 men and 29087 women.
    That is, there were more Tatars (Azerbaijanis) of men in Nakhichevan county than Armenians in total.

    In general, in the Erivan province, with a population of 829558 people, the native language was called the Armenian language - 441 people, and the Tatar (Azerbaijani) - 000 people.
    That is, in 1897 53,1% of Armenians and 37,7% of Azerbaijanis (Tatars) lived in Erivan province.
    In 1897, 34,4% of Armenians and 64,6% of Azerbaijanis (Tatars) lived in the Nakhichevan district.
  19. Seal
    Seal 29 December 2017 16: 28
    +5
    Quote: garnik
    While the cities that the Armenians founded in Russia are renamed, the only city is Armavir

    Goofy, Armavir is already founding Armenians laughing .
    It was the Armenians who appealed to our military commanders to allow them to settle near our military fortification Durable Trench, otherwise they, poor Armenians, are offended by everyone in the Caucasus. Our military command allowed. The Armenians created their village near our fortification and were under its protection. They fed on the fact that they provided us with services - they sewed shoes, probably clothes, they sold what they didn’t get .... Well, women may have provided some other services.
    Then, as we moved deeper into the Caucasus, our strengthening of the Durable Trench turned out to be far behind and lost its military significance. The military contingent was transferred to another place. And the Armenians ... and the Armenians remained. And they called their village, in which the civil authorities of the Russian Empire appeared, Armavir. Then this place received the status of a city.
  20. Seal
    Seal 29 December 2017 16: 32
    +2
    Quote: garnik
    And Stavropol will soon be in the grip of the North Caucasian peoples.

    But for some reason, not representatives of the North Caucasian peoples burst into the hospital in Mineralnye Vody. And not us. And not even gypsies.
    After the death of Larionov, the residents of Mineralnye Vody gathered a spontaneous rally, where they demanded the immediate arrest of all the participants in the beating. A week later, police detained the main instigators of the fight - a former employee of the security agency Andronik Tsakanyan, who, as it turned out, had even been put on the federal wanted list of the Taekwondo player Samvel Manachuryan.
    The battle in the hospital cost the post of mayor of Mineralnye Vody and several other officials.
  21. Seal
    Seal 29 December 2017 16: 53
    +1
    Quote: TUFAN
    I am more than sure that we will agree with you and we will prosper.

    Well, if you hope that Armenia will provide Azerbaijan’s goods, as well as oil and gas, with transit to Turkey and further to Europe, then the flag is in your hands. In the meantime, it’s better to buy a "Made in Ukraine" rake for yourself (I hope this state 404 still produces a rake) and periodically jump on them. Enlightenment in the mind may come.
  22. Seal
    Seal 29 December 2017 17: 13
    +3
    Quote: garnik
    And to live peacefully, we must ask those who came to our region with you, ruining and destroying everything around. Before their arrival, we lived as an example to many.

    Let me remind you that Hurrians (people of an unknown language group) were the autochones in this region. Which the Armenians migrated here so to speak "Armenized." Sometimes they say softer - "assimilated." But both that and another actually in the modern sense means "genocide of Hurrians by Armenians". That is, Hurrian men were destroyed, and Hurrian women gave birth to Armenian-Hurrit already.
    By the way, if the Ottomans hadn’t come to the region, then two Ak-Koyunly states (and the former long-time rival of Ak-Koyunly - the state of Kara-Koyunly) would have cleaned out all Armenians. But the Ottomans came from the West, and the Safavids from the East and saved the Armenians from total annihilation in the 16th century.
    For a long time, the Armenians (before the accession to the throne of the semi-Armenian Abdul-Hamid II) were the best friends and assistants of the Ottomans.
    Let me remind you that the Greeks, having regained Constantinople in 1261, expelled all Armenians from it, as traitors and accomplices of the Latin crusaders. Under the Paleologists, the Armenians were forbidden not only to reside in the City, but even to enter it.
    What are the Turks doing after taking the City? And the Turks, having taken the City, first of all (one of the first things) cancel the ban on living in it Armenians. Moreover, they do not just cancel, but respectfully invite Armenians to live in Constantinople. And to make Armenians comfortable, the Turks pass several Greek Orthodox churches to the Armenian Gregorian Church. And then the hitherto unthinkable happens. When the number of Armenians who again began to live in Constantinople reached a decent level, as the Armenians themselves write, “at the numerous request of the working Armenians,” Sultan Mohammed Fatih in 1461, that is, only 7 years after the Turks took the City, allowed the Armenians to create their Armenian Gregorian Patriarchate of Constantinople. What throughout the history of the City neither Greeks nor even Latins allowed during the Latin period of the City from 1204 to 1261. That is, from the fact that the Ottoman Turks took the CITY, the Armenians received the greatest benefit. They were again allowed to reside in the CITY and, moreover, for the first time in the history of the CITY they were allowed to establish their Armenian Patriarchate of Constantinople !! What neither the Greeks nor the Latins had ever allowed, and the Greeks would not have allowed further, having managed to defend the City in 1453. Moreover, the first Armenian patriarch of Constantinople was elected the Armenian metropolitan of Bursa - the former Turkish capital. In the former Ottoman capital Bursa, it turns out that the Armenian Metropolis was quietly existing and flourishing. By the way, in the past, 2016 marked the 555th anniversary of the establishment of the Armenian Constantinople Patriarchate at the request of the Armenian workers, Sultan Mohamed Fatih.
    I wonder if there was a salute on this occasion?
    1. garnik
      garnik 30 December 2017 00: 08
      +1
      The Hurrians lived south of the Tigris River. In the 13th century. captured the state of Hayas, which was located north i.e. in the territory of Great Armenia.
      And yet, the Hurrit, Akkadtsy, Urartu belonged to the Armenoid group and came from the Armenian Highlands.
      One of the members of the forum argued that some of the koyuns even helped the Armenians, you at least agree.
      Before the start of the Genocide, the Armenians faithfully served the homeland. The freak Enver, the Armenians rescued from Russian captivity, though later he became the Bolsheviks best friend and threw them as expected. Yes, there were Armenians who believed Russian and contributed by their actions to the speedy conquest of the territories. To do this, the Russian command in every way supported the Armenian population of Turkey with arms. So we all know. Genocide and let anyone doubt it survive it.
      1. garnik
        garnik 30 December 2017 13: 07
        +1
        Read 13 BC
  23. FLOOD
    FLOOD 29 December 2017 17: 25
    +2

    Maybe Alik is right))
    1. long in stock.
      long in stock. 29 December 2017 20: 12
      +3
      and what did you post? the correspondence of a couple of idiots on the Internet? here is direct evidence .. if you build your claims on the basis of the same evidence, then forgive the dear Azerbaijanis of Karabakh you will not see ... but continue to believe - in general, you will remain without a state.
      1. FLOOD
        FLOOD 3 January 2018 07: 21
        0
        I would be in your place for Mother Russia worried! And Karabakh, as it was ours, will remain ... a matter of time.
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 3 January 2018 09: 58
          0
          when you’re in our place, then you’ll worry ... and about the Karabakh it will be ours, I’ve heard from 86 years old ... you still won’t get together and learn ... the situation is like that among Arabs and Jews .. everything seems to be- And nothing has changed..
          1. FLOOD
            FLOOD 3 January 2018 10: 19
            0
            And he is ours .. the cart will soon be at your gate in Krasnodar, Sochi, the Kuban, etc. Your favorites will drag you into a deep hole, they have this experience, do not hesitate .. As long as the satellites are fed at the expense of ordinary Russians, that is, taxpayers, but this will soon hit the wall. You need to look around at least sometimes, but at least on the very Iran ...
            1. long in stock.
              long in stock. 3 January 2018 15: 54
              0
              yours is when you have it ... and there are threats from you ... I still served in the Soviet army and saw enough of yours .. in words cooler than mountains the truth is, in fact, you are fighters from a well-known substance bullet .. look back is yours concern for the Turks, then turn to the Iranians. all your threats are resolved just a little by gathering your markets and sending them back.
              1. Seal
                Seal 12 January 2018 09: 12
                0
                What does Azerbaijanis have to do with it? Our President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly said that Russia supports the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. So, whatever the Armenians or Azerbaijanis think to themselves, in the end it will still be the same as V.V.P. !!! He has repeatedly proved this to everyone.
                Now about who is spinning.
                RA Minister of Defense Vigen Sargsyan did not serve in the army, but studied at Harvard as a diplomat. Sargsyan’s military biography comes to work as a referent for the Minister of Defense for three years from 2000 to 2003. The referent is a specialist who works as an assistant who works with documents , arranges appointments, conducts correspondence, carries out small orders of the chief. As it turned out later, the job of the referent was the task of the CIA, (from 1998 to 2000 Vigen studied at Harvard, where he was recruited and assisted in finding employment), which, Sargsyan collected important intelligence, which was highly appreciated by the United States and helped him take the post Secretary of Defense On November 13, 2017, Vigen visited the United States to meet with his curators (he officially attended the University of California, where he delivered a lecture on leadership). From the day he was appointed, Sargsyan has supported the pro-American course and has been trying to transfer the defense of Armenia completely to American tracks.
    2. garnik
      garnik 30 December 2017 00: 10
      +2
      Kindergarten. Lay out the writers of your idiots.
  24. Seal
    Seal 29 December 2017 17: 25
    +2
    Quote: genisis
    I have not met a single Armenian who would consider Zatikyan, Baghdasaryan and Stepanyan a hero.

    Search for at least “Paruyr Hayrikyan about Stepan Zatikyan and NOP”.
    1. genisis
      genisis 29 December 2017 18: 18
      +1
      Just even watched the video, Hayrikyan about Zatikyan. Where exactly did he call him a hero? Again you are trying to pull by the ears
  25. LeonidL
    LeonidL 29 December 2017 19: 35
    +1
    30 years late with "offers" !!! autonomy was there during the USSR.
  26. APASUS
    APASUS 29 December 2017 22: 04
    0
    Good news!
    Although the most important news would be simply the agreement of the countries to negotiations, without preconditions. Now it is worth waiting for information from Yerevan.
    I do not know whether Russia will be the guarantor of this meeting, but the main thing is that the Americans do not intervene! Let them decide only in private
    1. garnik
      garnik 29 December 2017 22: 58
      +1
      APASUS
      There is no news. The Nakhichevan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic had a higher status, but Armenians were squeezed out from there. And what could be higher than an autonomous republic? People are judged by deeds, not words. And the Armenians have lived with the Turks for hundreds of years. To begin with, their “peace-loving" appeals would be reinforced by the creation of autonomous regions for ethnic groups on whose lands the so-called Azerbaijan. While all this has been harshly suppressed, in 1993 the Talysh declared Talysh. Mugan Republic, the movement was severely suppressed.
      The Lezgins had a Sadval organization, they also shot it.
      Local must decide, otherwise there will be eternal enmity.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 30 December 2017 09: 56
        +1
        Quote: garnik
        There is no news here.

        The news is that there is agreement to negotiate.
        A place to fumble centuries-old conflicts of the country should meet at the negotiating table.
      2. FLOOD
        FLOOD 3 January 2018 16: 13
        0
        Sadval is also the same as Asala, no need to stupid people with stupid things here ..
        And Nakhchivan spent 14 years in a siege of the son of Timur Miranshah, while he was unable to enter this territory. So when were you in Nakhchivan, before or after? Or maybe the great Ajemi built everything there not working for you? ... maybe he is not at all Ajemi, but an Ajemian? wassat
        1. garnik
          garnik 3 January 2018 18: 53
          +1
          Armenians were there before and after the invasion of the barbarians. Read http://blognews.am/rus/news/354
          451 / armyanskoe-proshloe-baku.html Judging by this, you appeared as a nation in Baku in the 30s, thanks to Stalin.
          1. FLOOD
            FLOOD 4 January 2018 07: 52
            +1
            Well, firstly, to read the Armenian resource is to deliberately mislead yourself. Secondly, Stalin himself survived thanks to our guys, who helped him to escape from the Bail prison in his youth. Thirdly, Timur was not a barbarian, on this score I hear for the first time from you, Armenians ...
            1. garnik
              garnik 5 January 2018 18: 48
              +1
              www.window2baku.com/architectors.htm
              List of architects in Baku. Your resource. I think Nikolay Baev should also be removed from this list. He is Armenian. Or do you identify the Armenians at the end of their names.
  27. FLOOD
    FLOOD 3 January 2018 16: 07
    0
    Quote: garnik
    Until the 11th century, your spirit was not here. And already at the end of the 18th century you became twice as many, and now you are 100%. This is waiting for Lezgin and Talysh. Have you seen photos of your horsemen fighting with khachkars? Thanks to the Iranian border guards and this is a shock for them.

    if THERE was not our spirit, then yours was not even on planet Earth laughing
  28. FLOOD
    FLOOD 8 January 2018 08: 25
    0
    Quote: Yujanin.
    But the government of Adygea has a website in Adygea, the government of Bashkiria has a site in Bashkir, the Buryats have a site in Buryatia and so on.

    Because it is a state in a state, a Federation in one word.
    Show me the Talysh government website - in Talysh, but what’s there, just show me the Talysh government website!

    I will show it only after you show the site of the governments of the Yezidis, Greeks and Russians in Armenia. Have they even stayed, or expelled everyone from the mono country? hi .

    What kind of Russians ?! There they have only two Russian schools, one in Gyumri, the other in Erivan ...
  29. Seal
    Seal 9 January 2018 18: 14
    +1
    Quote: garnik
    And yet, the Hurrit, Akkadtsy, Urartu belonged to the Armenoid group and came from the Armenian Highlands.

    This highland got its present name only in the middle of the 19th century. From the German geographer, apparently impressed by the Armenian mulberry vodka.

    Hurrites, Akkadians and Urartians in no way can belong to the Armenoid group, since when the Hurrians, Akkadians and Urartians themselves proto-Armenians wandered somewhere in the Balkans and in those places they did not smell.
    1. garnik
      garnik 9 January 2018 18: 37
      +1
      You do not want to recognize the state of HAYAS. Armenians call themselves HAI. HAYASA is the HAYEV state, judging by the Hittite cuneiforms and the statements of the Armenians. As for the armenoid group, read on the wiki. If the Armenians were newcomers, then they would have kindred peoples, at least in terms of language, as you have in Altai.
  30. Seal
    Seal 10 January 2018 13: 09
    +1
    An interesting line up.
    Quote: genisis
    Armenia is almost mono-ethnic

    It is impossible not to agree. Yes, almost mono-ethnic. But back in 1897, dozens of peoples and nationalities lived in the territory occupied by present-day Armenia, of which about half were Armenians.
    Since you think Armenia corresponds to this your correct statement
    Quote: genisis
    Much smarter and more profitable for the development of the state is the free and equal interaction of various ethnic groups.
    ?
    In my opinion, the conclusion follows inevitably that Armenia is your definition under [b] "Much smarter and more profitable for the development of the state is the free and equal interaction of various ethnic groups" [/ b] committed misses. hi
    1. genisis
      genisis 10 January 2018 16: 44
      0
      It is impossible not to agree. Yes, almost mono-ethnic. But back in 1897, dozens of peoples and nationalities lived in the territory occupied by present-day Armenia, of which about half were Armenians.

      It is impossible not to agree. However, unlike the Russian Federation and Azerbaijan, Armenia did not seize these territories and the peoples living on them did not try to assimilate artificially.
      And those nationalities who remained perfectly, freely and on an equal footing interact in the development of the Republic of Armenia.
  31. Seal
    Seal 10 January 2018 13: 16
    0
    Quote: genisis
    Where exactly did he call him a hero?

    Ah, there is no word "hero." Indeed, this word is not. There is praise and praise for this criminal, but the word "hero" really is not. But there is the Internet in which people express their opinions. And there are translators from any language to any.
    We take an online translator, we forget to translate into the Armenian expression "Zatikyan hero" and here you are. Here in this comment (if the online translator is not lying) there is not only the word "hero", but even "national hero".

    Գաբրիէլ Տէր-Կարապետեան Yerevan, Armenia
    Այսօրվա Հանրապետական ​​կուսակցությունը ամեն ինչով (գործելաոճով, համալրման ձեւերով, կարիերիստներ բուծելու, իշխանությունը զավթելու եւ նրանից կառչելու մեթոդներով) ավելի շատ հիշեցնում է տխրահռչակ ԽՄԿԿ-ն եւ ոչ մի կապ չունի ԱՄԿ, Նժդեհի եւ նույնիսկ իր հիմնադիր Աշոտ Նավասարդյանի հետ: Էլ ինչպես կարող է այս իշխանության օրոք արդարացվել իսկապես ազգային հերոսի կոչմանը արժանի "չարի կայսրության" կողմից սպանված Ստեփան ԶանԶըն
    Like · Reply · 22 · Oct 29, 2013 11:04 am

    And such comments are full !!!
    1. genisis
      genisis 10 January 2018 16: 54
      0
      But there is an Internet where people express their opinions

      Hammer in the Internet "Said Buryat" in Russian. I wonder if it will surprise you that it is full of laudatory comments about this terrorist in Russian?
  32. Seal
    Seal 10 January 2018 13: 27
    +1
    Quote: garnik
    You do not want to recognize the state of HAYAS

    Not only me. Science does not recognize. For all philologists know that the use of vowels in letters is in accordance with the traditional, that is, the official version of history, not earlier than the 5th century AD. There are only two consonants in the word Khayas - X and C. But the fact that the word has three vowels A and one Y, which is absent in a number of languages ​​- these are just taste preferences of the one who first introduced this expression of Hayas. With the same degree of probability could be UCNS or CES hi
    Apparently, the one who first introduced the word of Hayas really derived it from the word of Hay. But alas, completely artificial. hi
    Quote: garnik
    as you have in Altai.

    Yes, I know, I know about your national mental illness all declaring those who do not agree with you as Turks or Azerbaijanis. And for some reason, send them to Altai, where neither one nor the other has ever been. Do not bother once again to remind you of your illness.
  33. Seal
    Seal 10 January 2018 16: 49
    0
    Quote: APASUS
    A place to fumble centuries-old conflicts of the country should meet at the negotiating table.

    The state of the Cold War, which periodically warmed up, has been between the Armenians and Azerbaijanis for almost 30 years. At the same time, several dozens (officially), or maybe several hundred (unofficially), died on each side each year. For all this time, the peace agreement did not work out. And it will not work. Neither the Armenians voluntarily will ever abandon Karabakh, nor the Azerbaijanis. This means that the Armenians and Azerbaijanis, alas, are destined either to live forever in a state of "cold war" with the inevitable annual casualties, or to fight a hot fight once.
    So maybe it’s better for them to fight one time now hotly - and calm down on this? After all, you must be aware that every year weapons become more powerful and destructive. And that every year Armenians and Azerbaijanis have more and more weapons. It was still not enough that Armenia and Azerbaijan, God forbid, also acquire nuclear weapons! Even if it’s just “dirty bombs” !! So, for me, it is better that they fight hotly now, until they have such weapons in their hands that they can catch their surrounding countries, or even half the world, with their fight.
    There, the Armenians are even ready to use atomic weapons.
  34. Seal
    Seal 10 January 2018 17: 17
    0
    Quote: garnik
    And the Armenians have lived with the Turks for more than one hundred years.

    And wonderful lived. Until the semi-Armenian Abdul-Hamid II ascended the throne.
    Let me remind you that the Greeks, having regained Constantinople in 1261, expelled all Armenians from it, as traitors and accomplices of the Latin crusaders. Under the Paleologists, the Armenians were forbidden not only to reside in the City, but even to enter it.
    What are the Turks doing after taking the City? And the Turks, having taken the City, first of all (one of the first things) cancel the ban on living in it Armenians. Moreover, they do not simply cancel, but respectfully invite Armenians to live in Constantinople. And to make Armenians comfortable, the Turks pass several Greek Orthodox churches to the Armenian Gregorian Church. And then the hitherto unthinkable happens. When the number of Armenians who again began to live in Constantinople reached a decent level, as the Armenians themselves write, “at the numerous request of the working Armenians,” Sultan Mohammed Fatih in 1461, that is, only 7 years after the Turks took the City, allowed the Armenians to create their Armenian Gregorian Patriarchate of Constantinople. What throughout the history of the City neither Greeks nor even Latins allowed during the Latin period of the City from 1204 to 1261. That is, from the fact that the Ottoman Turks took the CITY, the Armenians received the greatest benefit. They were again allowed to reside in the CITY and, moreover, for the first time in the history of the CITY they were allowed to establish their Armenian Patriarchate of Constantinople !! What neither the Greeks nor the Latins had ever allowed, and the Greeks would not have allowed further, having managed to defend the City in 1453. Moreover, the first Armenian patriarch of Constantinople was elected the Armenian metropolitan of Bursa - the former Turkish capital. In the former Ottoman capital Bursa, it turns out that the Armenian Metropolis was quietly existing and flourishing. By the way, the year before last, 2016 marks 555 years since the founding of Sultan Mohamed Fatih at the request of the Armenian working people, the Armenian Patriarchate of Constantinople.
    I wonder if there was a salute on this occasion?

    It was in Constantinople (Istanbul), under the wing of the Turkish Sultan, that Armenians from all Asia Minor fled during the period of popular unrest and uprisings. We read Travel notes of the great Armenian writer-traveler of the early 17th century Simeon Lehatsi.
    2) “There were five Armenian churches in Istanbul: three in Vlang - St. Nicholas, the Holy Virgin and St. Sargis, one in Balatna, one St. Gevorg in Sulumanastra. In Istanbul there were also four to five wardepets, three bishops, one hundred, and perhaps more priests, not counting the monks. And hardly there would have been eighty houses of local [residents], but there were more than 40 thousand newcomers and Garibs in Istanbul, Galat and Scutari. Since the Jalalis of that side (Asia) ravaged [their] homes, all the persecuted and fugitives settled there. And if you look, then from Moldova to Istanbul and from all Rumelia to the great Venice there is no city, village or estate where there was no Armenian, for, mired in our sins, we scattered like dust on the face of the earth. Lord have mercy on us! ”

    What is interesting and instructive? Well, firstly, the fact that the Armenians in Istanbul in 1608 feel quite comfortable. And secondly, the fact that the Armenians suffered during the popular uprising, subsequently brutally crushed by the Ottoman army of Turkish peasants, is interesting.
    For your information:
    Right Jalali: jelali) called the participants in the rebel movements in Turkey; This name came from the name of Sheikh Jelali, the leader of the peasant movement that broke out at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. in the area of ​​Tokata and Amasya.
    So maybe the uprising was directed against the cruelty of tax collectors who "carry the treasury to Istanbul." And who brought the treasury to Istanbul from Moldova? That's right, Armenians. So most likely the Armenians in Tokat and Amasya were doing the same thing - collecting taxes for the Sultan of Turkey.
    On this occasion, we again read S.Lekhatsi (below).
    1. Seal
      Seal 10 January 2018 17: 20
      +1
      Read more.
      1) Finally, I heard that the treasury of the Turkish hondkar is being taken from the country of the Wallachians to Istanbul. Joyfully embarking on the journey, in three days I reached Yash-Bazar; I stayed there for one month, [waiting] for the treasury to leave. In Yash lived two hundred houses of Armenians - visitors and local; there was a magnificent stone church, wise priests and magnificent rich.
      On Monday, in the post of [Assumption] of the Virgin, I left with the treasury. The treasury was brought by the Armenian Yashians of the Khoja Hovhannes Keronents and the son of Abram, Khoja Khachik. May God repay Khachik and reward him thousands of times here and in the afterlife, for he put me on his cart and, until Istanbul, showed me an unworthy favor.
      From there, we reached Kaslov Vaslov in two days; there was one wooden church, one priest and twenty Armenian families. Having stayed there for a day and a half, we reached Berlat and spent the day of the Assumption of the Holy Virgin there, staying for four days. There was a custom according to which in each city the treasury was supposed to remain for two or three days and everywhere they had to give food and drink to them (accompanying the treasury) and pack animals.

      What can we learn from these three paragraphs?
      a) The fact that the treasury (apparently, annual tax fees) was brought to Istanbul by the Armenians. Most likely they collected it.
      b) Lekhatsi was well settled - he waited for those who carried the treasury and settled down, as those who were carrying the treasury “everywhere should have given food and drink to them (accompanying the treasury) and pack animals”.
      c) The Armenians who carried the treasury to Istanbul were Muslims. And they made a hajj. Hence, they have the name “Khoji” in their name. It should be noted that in the 16-17th centuries the conversion of Armenians (in the interests of commerce) to Islam was so massive (well, except for those who were engaged or were going to engage in usury) that the Turks rightly doubted the sincerity of the new Muslim Armenians. And then the Armenians made another move. They began to perform the hajj to Mecca. Then they got the right to the title of “Hodge”. None of the Ottomans could have questions for such Khoja Armenians.
      1. Dry
        Dry 11 January 2018 11: 01
        0
        I’m very interested in why you hate Armenians so much?
        1. genisis
          genisis 11 January 2018 19: 16
          0
          I think this is deeply personal. Most likely, some Armen, or Sarkis, or Ashot took away from Sergey Petrovich his girlfriend / wife, or a girl that he liked. So he developed an inferiority complex in relation to the Armenians lol
  35. Seal
    Seal 11 January 2018 18: 37
    0
    Quote: garnik
    While the cities that the Armenians founded in Russia are renamed, the only city in Armavir, which was left the original name.

    Wow, another aggravation caused by the excessive celebration of the New Year.
    Who founded Armavir.
    Armavir is over 160 years old. Its history began at the end of the 1778th century, during the Russian-Turkish war and the accession of the Caucasus to Russia. Then the border of our state passed along the Kuban River: fortifications were built along it, military settlements were created. In the summer of 1784, a field marshal stopped on the high right bank of the Kuban with a company of musketeers from the Nizhny Novgorod Infantry Regiment and a squadron of dragoons. He liked the place that dominated the fords and ferries, and to order the strengthening of the new border he ordered the construction of the All-Saints fighting redoubt. Later, in 1793, the fortress Durable Okop was erected here by the commander of the Caucasian army, and next to it was the fortified town of Fortstadt. In 5, Cossacks and families were relocated from the Don to the fortress. They founded on the site of the current Old Village the village of Prochno-Kopskaya, which was subsequently moved to a new place (1839 km from Armavir). In 42, on the left bank of the Kuban, against the fortress of Durable Okop, XNUMX families of Circassogais (mountain Armenians) settled.

    At the end of the XIV century. the tragic events of the history of Armenia (loss of independence, genocide) led to the outflow of the population to safer places. Some Armenians found refuge in the Crimea. Around 1475, due to persecution of faith by Muslims, the growth of exorbitant taxes and unrest, the process of resettlement of Crimean Armenians began, the first wave of refugees was sent to Circassia. Highlanders of the Western Caucasus took the aliens. The migrant Armenians, having lived in the mountains for 300 years, adopted the language, customs, customs, everyday life, the whole way of life of the Circassians, among whom they settled, but retained their ethnic identity and Christian faith - Armenian-Gregorian, close to Russian Orthodoxy. As a result of the interpenetration of the two cultures, a completely new ethnic group of the Circassogai - Mountain Armenians was formed.

    As a result of distribution from the end of the XVIII century. among the Circassians of Islam and the policy of religious planting, mountain Armenians faced the threat of losing their national religion. At the end of 1836, the Circassogs turned to the head of the Kuban line, Major General Baron G. F. von Zass, with a request "to take them under the protection of Russia and give them the means to settle near the Russians." Major General “requested” them permission to move from the mountainous regions of Circassia to the border regions of the Russian Empire under the protection of the Russian army and led the withdrawal of the Circassians from the mountains of the North Caucasus.
    G.F. von Zass is rightfully considered the founder of Armavir. Under the leadership of the Russian general on the left bank of the Kuban, against the village of Prochnokoopskaya, in 1837 a small village of mountain Armenians appeared. In 1839, the Cherkessogaev settlement moved closer to the mouth of the river. Urup under the cover of cannons of the fortress Durable Trench. This year is considered the official birth date of Armavir, which bore the original name - Armenian Village. The aul was surrounded on three sides by a deep moat 2,5 meters wide and a rampart. From the fourth side, the Kuban River flowed, which became the natural border of Armavir. The borders of the village changed several times due to the fact that more and more families moved from the mountains. In the early years, 120 families settled in the village, by 1840 their number increased to 400, in addition to the mountain Armenians, several hundred serf mountaineers lived in the settlement (in 1859 gchel.). The life of the Circassogai in the new place proceeded according to the same laws of the tribal life that they adhered to in the mountains. The village was divided into quarters in which they settled with families that came from the same villages. The main occupations of the mountain Armenians were exchange trade and craft. Well, for women, apparently, what women of all times and peoples, living near military towns, were engaged in.
    Soon our line of confrontation in the Highlanders moved further south. The sturdy Trench was in the rear. The civil authority of the Russian Empire came here. But the military left their fortification and moved closer to the new line of confrontation.
    In 1842, the inhabitants of the village received Russian citizenship. The construction of the Armenian-Gregorian church begins in the settlement, in 1846 a clergyman from Armenia arrived to light it, offering to name the settlement - Armavir, supposedly in honor of the capital of the never-existing ancient Armenian shah.
  36. Seal
    Seal 11 January 2018 18: 38
    +1
    Quote: Brut
    I’m very interested in why you hate Armenians so much?

    I do not hate Armenians. I hate lies. I wonder why you lie all the time and everything?
    1. Dry
      Dry 12 January 2018 10: 42
      0
      Quote: Seal
      I wonder why you lie all the time and everything?

      So you say that all Armenians always lie? Did you communicate with all Armenians on earth and all lied to you? What or who gives you the right to make such racist statements about an entire nation?
      Quote: Seal
      I already said three times that yes, purely personal. I personally hate it when those under the guise of allies creep into us who only strive to solve their Armenian problems with our Russian blood.

      At the expense of the allies. I asked you a question about this and you left the topic. I’ll ask again.
      If Armenia is not an ally of the Russian Federation, what will prevent Iran from selling its gas to Europe in very large volumes, through Armenia and Georgia?
  37. Seal
    Seal 11 January 2018 18: 46
    0
    Quote: genisis
    However, unlike the Russian Federation and Azerbaijan, Armenia

    Yes Yes. Everything around is in shit, and only Armenia is all in white.
    Quote: genisis
    And those nationalities who remained perfectly, freely and on an equal footing interact in the development of the Republic of Armenia.

    Oh oh First of all, how many of them remained out of almost a hundred as of 1897?
    And secondly, how much do they make up as a percentage? 1,2% of the titular population, right? With such a ratio, the titular population in general can contain them, as a showcase of its “tolerance”, so to speak lol
    But this does not happen. Apparently, greed prevails over the mind. After all, even the number of Molokans is gradually but steadily declining. Here according to this source (written approximately in 2006-2007) http://lratvakan.com/news/71252.html half of the Russian diaspora of Armenia are Molokans. Of these, 1500 people live in Violetovo, a thousand in Lermontovo, 300-350 in Vanadzor (formerly Kirovakan). There are about 5 thousand people of the Molokan religion. That is, if the Molokans are half and there are 5 thousand of them, it means that already then, in 2006-2007. there were a maximum of ours in Armenia - 10 thousand people (a 1979-fold decrease by 7). Most likely, now we, Russians, or rather, Russian-speaking, somewhere around 6 thousand people. The decrease compared to 1979 is almost 12 times. Total, in the percentage reduction of Russians, even according to official figures, Armenia is confidently leading. The once tolerant Erivan province of our Russian Empire, where Armenians made up just over 50% of the population, and hundreds of other nationalities lived with them in the province, has now become the most mono-ethnic country in the world, where the number of titular population is 98,8%. The peace-loving Armenians drove out all the rest, squeezed out or squeezed out, squeezing in their warm friendly embrace. Yes, even from Tajikistan, where not only, like in Armenia, there was no water or light for years, but also a civil war was going on, and less of ours left as a percentage than from Armenia. Even the most unpretentious in everyday life MOLOKANES who escaped using electricity as a sin, escaped from Armenia. Under Soviet rule, there were about (or slightly more) 50 purely Molokan villages in Armenia. Now there are only 2 (two) left - Lermontovo and Violetovo, and they are already half Armenian. The Armenians began to look at the well-cultivated for over 150 years hardworking Molokans of their land. And they began to take the land from the Molokans. Moreover, you succeeded, since you translated all the paperwork into Armenian. The Molokans did not understand how they lost their land. Hitler did not even dream of achieving such a “Germans / non-Germans” ratio for his Nazi Germany, which the “most peaceful, friendliest” Armenians have now achieved. Armenians, as practice shows, are Hitler’s most consistent students in relation to national politics. The Armenians even surpassed Hitler himself in Hitlerism. Since Hitler allowed the existence in Germany of a sufficiently large number of nations, except for the Germans themselves. And the Armenians drove out all non-Armenians almost at the comb out of Armenia that became them. To loud songs about the friendliness of Armenians, to songs and dances about friendship and love of Armenians for the Great Russian people.
    1. genisis
      genisis 11 January 2018 19: 14
      0
      Yes Yes. Everything around is in shit, and only Armenia is all in white.

      Do not complex, it's just a historical fact.
      Oh oh First of all, how many of them remained out of almost a hundred as of 1897?

      Armenia as a state on this land appeared much later than 1897. You distort again.
      And secondly, how much do they make up as a percentage? 1,2% of the titular population, right? With such a ratio, the titular population in general can contain them, as a showcase of its “tolerance”, so to speak

      They do not even constitute 1% of the titular population. You are trying to conclude from this that the Armenians kicked everyone out. However, you cannot cite as an example a single pogrom that would have occurred on the territory of Armenia in relation to other nationalities living there. Unlike imperial Azerbaijan, from which all Armenians were expelled, while other nationalities living there are forced to hide their identity, putting on the collective image of “Azerbaijanis”.
      And the Armenians drove out all non-Armenians almost at the comb out of Armenia that became them.

      You, of course, can give examples, as the Armenians drove everyone under the comb? )))
  38. Seal
    Seal 11 January 2018 18: 52
    0
    Quote: genisis
    Hammer in the Internet "Said Buryat" in Russian.

    Let me remind you that I answered you here is yours.
    Quote: genisis
    29 December 2017 16: 59 ↑
    I have not met a single Armenian who would consider Zatikyan, Baghdasaryan and Stepanyan a hero.

    I showed you such an Armenian.
    And you, instead of saying thank you to me for eliminating your ignorance in this matter, suddenly decided to hide behind Said Buryatsky. What, is it possible that someone on the site you quoted glorifies this terrorist, gives some kind of indulgence for Armenians who consider terrorist Zatikyan a national hero?
    Can you finally learn to answer for yourself, without reference to anyone?
    1. genisis
      genisis 11 January 2018 19: 07
      0
      Sergey Petrovich, you again have problems with logical thinking.
      If someone on the Internet considers Zatikyan a hero, leaving a comment in Armenian, if someone on the Internet considers Said Buryatsky leaving a comment in Russian, this does not mean that Armenians or Russians consider these characters as heroes.
      What is not clear?
      I wrote to you above that I personally, communicating with a large number of Armenians personally, and not on the Internet, have not met anyone who would consider Zatikyan a hero.
      You started to cite as an example someone’s scribbling on the Internet, which in my understanding is absolutely identical to what I wrote in response to you, that the Russians consider Said Buryatsky to be a hero, an example of which you can easily find on the Internet.
  39. Seal
    Seal 12 January 2018 09: 14
    0
    Quote: genisis
    I think this is deeply personal.

    Do you broadcast your personal family problems? I already said three times that yes, purely personal. I personally hate it when those under the guise of allies creep into us who only strive to solve their Armenian problems with our Russian blood.
    1. genisis
      genisis 12 January 2018 14: 13
      0
      Well, judging by the intensity of the hysteria, it was as if the lady of the horn had directed Sergei Petrovich with an ardent Armenian lol
  40. Seal
    Seal 12 January 2018 09: 16
    +1
    Quote: genisis
    I wrote to you above that I personally, communicating with a large number of Armenians personally, and not on the Internet, have not met anyone who would consider Zatikyan a hero.

    And I met. And more than once. I confirmed to you a link to direct speech. So, what is next ? Are you again unhappy?
    You have repeatedly shown alogism: "If I don’t know something, this wasn’t." lol
    1. genisis
      genisis 12 January 2018 14: 10
      0
      The meeting with a living person was confirmed by the Internet commentary.
      Sergey Petrovich, what to take from him.
  41. Seal
    Seal 12 January 2018 15: 14
    0
    Yes Yes. Everything around is in shit, and only Armenia is all in white.
    Quote: genisis
    Do not complex, it's just a historical fact.

    It’s ridiculous. Have fun. laughing Well, we, Russia, have won someone !! But who could Azerbaijan conquer, which appeared in the historical arena simultaneously with Armenia in 1918?

    And further. I will note your truly Jesuit move. After all, it was the Armenians and Georgians who lured us to Transcaucasia for more than a hundred years. And so we succumbed to persuasion and finally came to Transcaucasia, having conquered the territories occupied by present-day Armenia and Georgia from the Persians and Turks, having received almost 100-year-old Caucasian war in the rear, which claimed hundreds of thousands of our lives. And what !!! And the fact that all kinds of Genesis are now reproaching us with this, they say have conquered us .. bad radishes ...

    Quote: genisis
    Armenia as a state on this land appeared much later than 1897. You distort again.

    Well ? I just say that as soon as the Armenians got their state thanks to the collapse of the Russian Empire, they immediately began to turn it into an ethnically mono-national one.


    And secondly, how much do they make up as a percentage? 1,2% of the titular population, right? With such a ratio, the titular population in general can contain them, as a showcase of its “tolerance”, so to speak
    Quote: genisis
    They do not even constitute 1% of the titular population. You are trying to conclude from this that the Armenians kicked everyone out. However, you cannot cite as an example a single pogrom that would have occurred on the territory of Armenia in relation to other nationalities living there. Unlike imperial Azerbaijan, from which all Armenians were expelled, while other nationalities living there are forced to hide their identity, putting on the collective image of “Azerbaijanis”.

    Pro Armenia Magazine N 1, 1993 Article "Perestroika in the Karabakh Mirror". Both the magazine is pro-Armenian and the article is pro-Armenian. And yet.
    In Azerbaijan, as a result of offenses on national grounds, 26 Azerbaijanis died in three years, including 27. from November 3 to December 1988, 23 - one in 1989 - two

    And this is only your Armenian data.
    Quote: genisis
    You, of course, can give examples, as the Armenians drove everyone under the comb?

    Yes, I have already told you how many times that the most dispassionate witnesses are numbers. If according to the census of 1897 in the territory now occupied by Armenia, there were about half of the Armenians themselves, and now - 98,8% - what does this mean? Or do you think these figures indicate that the Armenians did not expel anyone, somehow it happened so completely by accident that all non-Armenians took and left themselves.
    Do you really need pogroms, as it was in Rwanda between tutoes and huts? And the example of Zimbabwe is not suitable for you? How many whites were there until the power in Zimbabwe passed from white to black? And where did almost all the whites from Zimbabwe go, right? Black did not expel any of the whites, did not arrange pogroms - and yet almost all the whites from Zimbabwe escaped. You really don’t understand why ??
    And that is characteristic. Blacks, having driven out, oh, excuse me, not having driven out, whites themselves have not understood why they left many countries of Africa ... well, in general, left without whites, after some time they themselves ran after Europe to Europe. And to hell with them than now you drive them out of there. Every black monkey swings rights right up to the ECHR.
    Similarly, the Armenians. Having expelled (oh, excuse me, not having driven out, we Russians ourselves have no idea why we left the peace-loving, friendly Armenia) .. well, in general, having got rid of us, they immediately began to move to us in Russia after us. And now they’ll get the hell out of here with a broom. Take the same Genesis: "I have the right to live where I want, I have the right to live here !!!"
    More interesting.
    We take the transcript of the meeting of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU (February 29, 1988). Source: TsKHSD, a collection of declassified documents. (The journal "Homeland" No. 4, 1994, S. 82-90)

    Gorbachev. But there are facts of the flight of Azerbaijani families from Armenia. True, the figures are contradictory: Vladimir Ivanovich reports that 55 people left, and Razumovsky says that 200.

    Razumov (deputy head of the Department of organizational and party work of the Central Committee of the CPSU). When an Azerbaijanian leaves Armenia, he does not say that he is running, but declares that he is going, as if on a visit. Therefore, the calculation should be carried out in Azerbaijan. He comes here and says bluntly, I won’t leave for Armenia.
  42. Seal
    Seal 12 January 2018 15: 17
    0
    Quote: genisis
    You started to cite someone’s scribble on the Internet as an example

    And what should I bring you? By the way, I already told you that I heard this from Armenians not only on the Internet. But you missed it. Moreover, you can quite say that I'm lying. After all, I can’t confirm my words with anything. Therefore, I found confirmation on the Internet. And again you are not happy !!! So who has problems with logical thinking?
  43. Seal
    Seal 12 January 2018 15: 32
    0
    Quote: Brut
    So you say that all Armenians always lie?

    What is the problem ? Let’s do an experiment on at least you.
    Which of the following list do you think is true:
    1. The Armenians never fought with us.
    2. Armenia has always been an ally of Russia.
    3. Ivan the Terrible near Kazan had a regiment of Armenian gunners.
    4. In Kazan, the Tatars tried to force the Armenians to shoot cannons at our troops, but they refused, for which almost all were killed. Those who survived were praised by Ivan the Terrible.
    5. Armenians never traded Russian (Polish, Little Russian) Christian captives.
    6. In the Great Patriotic War, more than 600 thousand Armenians went to the front.
    7. During the Great Patriotic War, more than 200 thousand Armenians died at the front.
    8. In World War II, there were Armenian marshals.
    9. Among the heroes of the USSR more than 90 are Armenians and all of them received the title of Hero of the USSR for specific feats.
    10. The 89th Armenian Taman three-time-bearing rifle division, the only one of all national formations, took part in the assault on Berlin and defeated a strong garrison, which was consolidated in the center of the capital, in Humboldt-Hein. For this operation, the division was awarded the Order of Kutuzov II degree.

    About Iran. The Israeli lobby in the US Congress hinders the sale of gas through Armenia and Georgia to Iran. The Armenian lobby in the US Congress is only in second place in terms of influence, after the Israeli. This means that the Israeli lobby will find an opportunity to silence the Armenian lobby on this issue. If at all, the Armenian lobby in the US Congress will support this idea. And without the approval of the United States, Armenia and Georgia don’t even dare to fart. In matters of principle, of course. And so, to indulge, such as voting at the UN General Assemblies (which do not oblige anyone to anything) against the obviously anti-Russian resolutions, the US allows Armenia. All the same, it does not affect anything.
    1. genisis
      genisis 12 January 2018 16: 48
      +1
      1. The Armenians never fought with us.

      Military operations between Armenians and the 11th Red Army fit the definition of "fought with us"?
      2. Armenia has always been an ally of Russia.

      Which Armenia do you mean? Which existed several centuries before the emergence of a single Russian state, or the First Republic of Armenia, or the Armenian SSR, or the Second Republic of Armenia? Which one? And if the First Republic of Armenia was an ally of the Russian Empire, but was not an ally of Soviet Russia, then how should this be taken into account?
      3. Ivan the Terrible near Kazan had a regiment of Armenian gunners.
      4. In Kazan, the Tatars tried to force the Armenians to shoot cannons at our troops, but they refused, for which almost all were killed. Those who survived were praised by Ivan the Terrible.

      I have no idea whether Ivan the Terrible had Pushkari Armenians or not. In general, anyway.
      5. Armenians never traded Russian (Polish, Little Russian) Christian captives.

      Traded.
      6. In the Great Patriotic War, more than 600 thousand Armenians went to the front.
      7. During the Great Patriotic War, more than 200 thousand Armenians died at the front.

      These are not exact numbers. Exact less.
      8. In World War II, there were Armenian marshals.

      Baghramyan and Babajanyan received the title of Marshals after the Victory in the Great Patriotic War.
      9. Among the heroes of the USSR more than 90 are Armenians and all of them received the title of Hero of the USSR for specific feats.

      Yes
      10. The 89th Armenian Taman three-time-bearing rifle division, the only one of all national formations, took part in the assault on Berlin and defeated a strong garrison, which was consolidated in the center of the capital, in Humboldt-Hein. For this operation, the division was awarded the Order of Kutuzov II degree.

      I don’t know about the "only". 89 SD blocked a strong garrison in Humboldt Hein Park. For this operation she was awarded the Order of Kutuzov II degree.
      Do you want me to prove this to you in public again? It seemed to me that last time was enough for you. Again, want to tell how Zinaida Stepanova, along with a colonel on an all-terrain vehicle, took the anti-aircraft tower in the Humboldt Hein Park?

      Sergey Petrovich, your psychotic complexes with respect to Armenians do not bother me much, but for lying to the fighters of the 89th SD I will call you to account every time I read your next, foul-smelling comment on this subject.
      1. Seal
        Seal 12 January 2018 17: 16
        0
        Genesis came in again.
        Okay. So, I cited the 10 most common (allegedly widely disseminated on the Internet) alleged facts.
        Now specifically.
        1. The Armenians were part of the army of Mamai and, together with the entire Tatar army, were beaten on the Kulikovo Field.
        2. Armenia has never been an ally of Russia, since in a historically reliable period the Armenians did not possess a state. And when they possessed (1918-1920) - they were not our allies.
        3 and 4 - waiting for Brut
        5. Yes, traded for over 500 years.
        6 and 7. Significantly less.
        8. Right. There were no Armenian marshals during the war. There was the only aviation marshal Sergey Aleksandrovich Khudyakov, who even wrote “Russian” in party profiles. Both Baghramyan and Babajanyan are marshals of the Khrushchev spill.
        9. No. A lot was awarded after 09.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX, so to speak, on the "totality of merit."
        10. You will not be able to attribute the feat accomplished by the translator of the 52nd Riga Division to the Armenians. I always beat you with facts and will beat you. And the fact that with the help of cheating techniques you are trying to pull the 89th division, which almost did not fight in Berlin, by the ears, is that it supposedly "blocked a strong garrison in the Humboldt Hein Park" - I can once again smear you on the table documents. She so-called “blocked” exclusively in the award sheet of the division commander Safaryan. But in reality, one company (less than 50 people) only passed near the Tower, carrying out its combat mission, which by the way, did not fulfill. But then this failed maneuver, made near the Tower, in the award sheet was given out as “success” and “blocking”.
        Genesis, I am not much affected by your psychotic complexes regarding the Turks, but for the lie regarding the fighters of the 52 SD, I will call you to account every time I read your next, foul-smelling comment on this subject.
        1. genisis
          genisis 12 January 2018 17: 34
          +1
          Now specifically
          The Armenians were part of the army of Mamaia and were, along with the entire Tatar army, bits on the Kulikovo Field.

          Sergey Petrovich, what a nonsense you are all the same. Are you talking about the very Mamaia whose existence, like the capture of Russia by the Tatar yoke, you so vehemently deny?
          So how do you understand when it is necessary to denigrate Armenians - they fought with Russia along with Mamai, when it is not necessary - no Mamai existed. request
          You either put on your underpants or remove the cross (s)
          Armenia has never been an ally of Russia, since in a historically reliable period the Armenians did not possess a state. And when they possessed (1918-1920) - they were not our allies.

          Armenians now have statehood and are allies of Russia.
          August 11, 2016, Moscow - Joint press conference of Vladimir Putin and Serzh Sargsyan
          “As for weapons, we have a program of work with Armenia in this direction. Armenia is a member of the CSTO, Armenia is our ally. We have certain mutual obligations, and Russia always adheres to its obligations, always fulfills its obligations, ”Putin said, commenting on the supply of Russian weapons to Armenia.
          Maybe you want to refute Putin?
          No. A lot was awarded after 09.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX, so to speak, on the "totality of merit."

          How much is a lot? How many do you think were the GSS Armenians? How many of them received the award after 1945? Those who received their award in June 1945, due to the long movement of documents, received it for actions taken before 09/05/1945. How many Armenians were specifically awarded the hero's star after 1945?
          You will not be able to attribute the feat performed by the translator of the 52nd Riga Division to the Armenians. I always beat you with facts and will beat you.

          You don’t have and don’t have a single document about the fact that part of 52 SD blocked the garrison of the anti-aircraft tower in Humbol Hein, because 52 SD was responsible for another section of Berlin during this period. Stepanova really came from the order of 52 SDs on an all-terrain vehicle with a colonel to an anti-aircraft tower blocked by Safaryan's fighters for negotiations, for which she received her award.
          Let’s already, don’t trynd, but start “smearing” me with documents))))
          1. Seal
            Seal 15 January 2018 18: 32
            +1
            Quote: genisis
            Sergey Petrovich, what a nonsense you are all the same. Are you talking about the very Mamaia whose existence, like the capture of Russia by the Tatar yoke, you so vehemently deny?
            So how do you understand when it is necessary to denigrate Armenians - they fought with Russia along with Mamai, when it is not necessary - no Mamai existed. request
            You either put on your underpants or remove the cross (s)


            I have already told you how many times - but from you it’s the same as peas from the wall. Or we pass on to the notion that we don’t consider something that is not documented and you agree that before the 16th century the whole history is unreliable, including your so-called “ancient Armenian kingdoms”. Or take Mamaia too.
            So that underpants and a cross look those on itself. You will not be able to sit on two chairs.

            Quote: genisis
            Armenia has never been an ally of Russia, since in a historically reliable period the Armenians did not possess a state. And when they possessed (1918-1920) - they were not our allies.
            Armenians now have statehood and are allies of Russia.
            August 11, 2016, Moscow - Joint press conference of Vladimir Putin and Serzh Sargsyan
            “As for weapons, we have a program of work with Armenia in this direction. Armenia is a member of the CSTO, Armenia is our ally. We have certain mutual obligations, and Russia always adheres to its obligations, always fulfills its obligations, ”Putin said, commenting on the supply of Russian weapons to Armenia.
            Maybe you want to refute Putin?


            Vladimir Vladimirovich current politician. And so he is forced to adhere to politeness. But even in his political speeches to your misfortune, he still finds the opportunity to show the true state of affairs. Namely: “We (Russia) have certain mutual obligations, and Russia always adheres to its obligations, always fulfills its obligations.” Which I always say. What is called “alliance” in political speeches is actually parasitism. For help is exceptionally one-sided. We have an obligation to provide you our weapons for free. You have an obligation to receive our weapons for free and to demand more and more. Moreover, you voluntarily undertook to criticize us for selling our weapons to Azerbaijan for the currency.

            No. A lot was awarded after 09.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX, so to speak, on the "totality of merit."
            Quote: genisis
            How much is a lot? How many do you think were the GSS Armenians? How many of them received the award after 1945? Those who received their award in June 1945, due to the long movement of documents, received it for actions taken before 09/05/1945. How many Armenians were specifically awarded the hero's star after 1945?

            I have already begun to list and it seems (I do not remember exactly) I suggested that you continue it. Or not for you? I can repeat it. It will be separately below.

            You will not be able to attribute the feat performed by the translator of the 52nd Riga Division to the Armenians. I always beat you with facts and will beat you.
            Quote: genisis
            You don’t have and don’t have a single document about the fact that part of 52 SD blocked the garrison of the anti-aircraft tower in Humbol Hein, because 52 SD was responsible for another section of Berlin during this period. Stepanova really came from the order of 52 SDs on an all-terrain vehicle with a colonel to an anti-aircraft tower blocked by Safaryan's fighters for negotiations, for which she received her award.

            There is not a single document:
            - setting the task of the 89th division "to block anti-aircraft towers in Humbol Heine";
            - setting the task of the 89th division "to storm the anti-aircraft tower in Humbol Heine."
            There is not a single operational report from the 89th division that
            - The 89th division “blocked the anti-aircraft towers in Humbol Heine”;
            - The 89th division "stormed the anti-aircraft tower in Humbol Heine";
            - The 89th division “forced the surrender of the anti-aircraft tower garrison in Humbol Heine”;
            What else needs to be proved ????
            1. Seal
              Seal 15 January 2018 18: 37
              0
              1. David Misakovich Yazyjan (May 2 (15), 1915 - July 23, 1988 [2]) - a veteran of the Great Patriotic War, commander of the tank of the 92nd engineer-tank regiment of the 5th shock army of the 1st Belorussian Front, Hero of the Soviet Union. At the front in World War II from September 1942.
              The commander of the tank of the 92nd tank regiment of the 5th shock army, junior lieutenant Yazijan, in battles for the city of Kustrin on March 7–8, 1945, detonated mines on the tank minesweeper, destroyed barricades in the streets, and firing points, promoting the advancement of rifle units.
              By the decree of the USSR PVS of May 31, 1945, for the exemplary execution of the combat missions of the command at the front of the struggle against Nazi invaders and the courage and heroism shown to this, the youngest lieutenant Yazidzhan was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union with the Order of Lenin (No. 52206) and the Golden Star medal "(No. 7677).
              Awarded after the end of the war, so to speak, collectively, for "exemplary implementation».
              2. Yavrumov Vladimir Akopovich, died January 12, 1945. By decree of the USSR PVS of June 27, 1945, for the exemplary fulfillment of command assignments and the shown courage and heroism in battles with the Nazi invaders of the guard, senior lieutenant Yavrumov was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union posthumously. The baptism commander of the rifle platoon, junior lieutenant Yavrumov received in April 1942 on the North-Western Front.
              Awarded after the war again for "exemplary implementation"And again after the war. Yavrumov, of course, is a militant man and worthy of awards ... but actually, there is no feat for which the Hero of the USSR is indisputably given.
              3. Ivan Konstantinovich Shaumyan. Member of the Great Patriotic War since July 1941. He joined the militia. He fought near Smolensk and Vyazma, after being wounded and hospital appointed to the 120th Infantry Regiment. Participated in the Battle of Kursk. He distinguished himself during the crossing of the Dnieper on October 15, 1943 near the village of Radul. By placing a smoke screen, he ensured the success of the crossing. As part of the landing group crossed to the right bank of the river, participated in the seizure of the bridgehead. He led a group of 17 fighters that repelled enemy counterattacks on the right flank of the bridgehead. He was wounded, but remained in service until reinforcements arrived.
              The title of Hero of the Soviet Union with the awarding of the Order of Lenin and the Gold Star medal was awarded to Shaumyan on October 30, 1943 for courage and heroism shown in battles. Awarded during the war (1).
              Worthy person. However, agree that nothing out of the ordinary. Ours would be given an order. Or a medal "For Courage". As part of the landing, tens of thousands of people were transported to the right bank of the Dnieper.
              4. Mikhail Mikhailovich Shalzhiyan (July 25, 1925 - April 4, 2004) - commander of the 22nd Guards Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 6th Panzer Corps of the 3rd Guards Tank Army of the 1st Ukrainian Front, guard sergeant.
              In April 1943 he was drafted into the Red Army. Since the beginning of 1944 - on the fronts of World War II. Participated in the Lviv-Sandomierz and Vistula-Oder operations, liberated Ukraine, Poland, Germany.
              He accomplished a feat during the Berlin strategic offensive operation. On the night of April 23, 1945, on a hastily prepared home-made raft, his group crossed over to the enemy shore under fire. Observing the enemy’s fire, the scouts spotted the location and transmitted by radio the coordinates of two tanks dug into the ground, three batteries, more than a dozen machine-gun points.
              For courage and heroism, by decree of the USSR PVS of June 27, 1945, the guard sergeant Shalzhiyan was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union with the awarding of the Order of Lenin and the Gold Star medal.
              Well, actually, and why is it so super outstanding that “the scouts crossed over to the enemy shore. Observing the enemy’s fire, the scouts spotted the location and transmitted by radio the coordinates of two tanks dug into the ground, three batteries, more than a dozen machine-gun points. ”
              Awarded after the end of the war.

              5. Saribek Sogomonovich Chilingaryan (January 19, 1925 - February 19, 1996) - shooter of the 66th guards joint venture of the 23rd guards regiment of the 3rd shock army of the 1st Belorussian front, guard of the Red Army.
              Drafted in January 1943, in battles since September 1943.
              He distinguished himself in the battles for Berlin. On April 17, 1945, he was the first to cross the canal in the vicinity of the village of Bushhov, and during the reflection of the enemy’s counterattack with grenades he knocked out 2 enemy tanks and destroyed many Nazis. Fighting deep into the village, after six days of fierce fighting on April 23, the Red Army Chilingaryan and a group of fighters captured a village building located at the dominant height, which was important for the advancing Soviet troops. Having learned about the loss of height, the German command is taking the assault on the lost positions, but the heroic actions of Chilingaryan and his colleagues reduce to zero all the attempts of the Nazis to seize the building. By the time reinforcements approached, all the enemy’s counterattacks were repelled, desperate to take the impregnable line, the Nazis began to evacuate troops from the village.
              By the decree of the USSR PVS of May 31, 1945, for the exemplary performance of the command’s combat mission in the fight against Nazi invaders and the courage and heroism of the guard shown to Private Chilingaryan Saribek Sogomonovich was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union with the Order of Lenin and the Gold Star medal (No. 6831).
              He was awarded after the war, again, so to speak, in aggregate, for "exemplary implementation».
              6. Lazar Sergeevich Chapchakhov. (1911-1942). Chapchakhov L.S. made 268 sorties, conducted 59 air battles, personally shot down 8 aircraft and 19 in group battles. He died on April 13, 1942 at his Sacrament airfield in the Leningrad Region while trying to prevent an airplane accident from an unsuccessfully crashed young pilot. Man of courage. But still, the Hero of the Soviet Union was given to fighter pilots for 10 personally shot down enemy planes, and since 1943 - for 15. Lazar Sergeyevich, with all due respect to him, I did not reach up to 10 personally shot down enemy planes. But he received the title of Hero of the USSR. Apparently, the fact that he had the rank of “battalion commissar” was the military commissar of the squadron of the 38th separate fighter regiment of the North-Western Front.
              1. Seal
                Seal 15 January 2018 19: 26
                0
                April 30 update. Even in the center of the park there is not a single unit of the 89th SD.

                May 1 Summary.

                Where is the assault or blocking of the Anti-aircraft Tower invented by you (and your predecessors)?
                1. genisis
                  genisis 15 January 2018 19: 41
                  +1
                  Here is the operational summary of the headquarters of the 38th Investigative Committee on 19-00 01/05/1945
                  Read about 89 SD, in the same place and about 52 SD (where Zinaida Stepanova serves)

                  And here is the operational summary of the headquarters of the 38th Investigative Committee on 19-00 02/05/1945
                  If you open your eyes, you will read in the paragraph about 89 SD, about the surrender of the fortress garrison - that is, the anti-aircraft tower garrison, because there are simply no other fortresses there. At the same time, you can read where 52 SD conducts actions at the same time. Look at the map, how many blocks is from Humbolt Hein Park

                  Here you have at the same time a map with a mark of the anti-aircraft tower and church, since you are confused around the world))
              2. genisis
                genisis 15 January 2018 19: 58
                +1
                In the order, along with Yazyjan, 377 people were awarded. Do you think everyone was awarded for "exemplary performance"?
                This is the page on which specifically the surname Yazyjan appears. The rest of this list is the same, in your derogatory wording "think they say, for exemplary performance" awarded?

                Here is the award sheet in Yazyjan

                As for me, so definitely a heroic man.
                Interestingly, you judge who deservedly received the GSS and who didn’t, as if you’re definitely a “man-hero all breasts in orders”
    2. Dry
      Dry 13 January 2018 16: 00
      +2
      Quote: Seal
      Quote: Brut
      So you say that all Armenians always lie?
      What is the problem ?

      The problem is that to operate with such categorical (I hope you understand the meaning of this word) statements regarding an entire nation a priori cannot be true. In any nation (Armenians, Russians, Tatars, Jews, Uzbeks, Lezghins, Chinese, etc.) there are people who lie and there are who do not lie, there are who lie on some issues, and there are who lie on other , I repeat, in ANY nation. And insulting the whole nation, categorically declaring that all Armenians always lie, is not worthy of a normal / adequate person.
      Quote: Seal
      Let’s do an experiment on at least you.

      And what will it give? If I lie somewhere, will it give you the right to talk about the whole nation? Or did you conduct this experiment with millions of other Armenians and everyone lied?
      Although let's.
      Quote: Seal
      1. Armenians never fought with us.

      You sometimes (when it's convenient for you) operate with very general concepts, and sometimes (also when it's convenient for you) are very specific.

      We fought. Example: in all the Russo-Turkish wars both in the armies of the Republic of Ingushetia (Russian Empire) and in the armies of the OI (Ottoman Empire) there were Armenians. And in essence, the Armenians fought with the Russians, the Armenians fought with the Turks, and even the Armenians fought with the Armenians.
      Another example: the Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh fought against the Soviet troops (Operation Ring).
      Quote: Seal
      2. Armenia has always been an ally of Russia.

      Quote: genisis
      Which Armenia do you mean? Which existed several centuries before the emergence of a single Russian state, or the First Republic of Armenia, or the Armenian SSR, or the Second Republic of Armenia? Which one? And if the First Republic of Armenia was an ally of the Russian Empire, but was not an ally of Soviet Russia, then how should this be taken into account?

      Quote: Seal
      2. Armenia has never been an ally of Russia, as in a historically reliable period Armenians did not have a state. And when they possessed (1918-1920) - ours were not allies.

      And when is the "historical reliable period"? A reliable period in the history of mankind begins with the formation of Russian statehood (smacks of chauvinism)? That is, for you, the existence of, for example, the Roman Empire is not historically reliable?

      At the beginning of the 20th century, the Russian Empire was a member of the Entente, the Republic of Armenia was an ally of the Entente, and, yes, an adversary of Soviet Russia. And so, which country do you consider your Russian Empire or Soviet Russia? By the way, for those who do not know, the Russian Empire and Soviet Russia fought among themselves (civil war). This also applies to point 1, since there were Armenians both here and there, i.e. Armenians fought against Russians, Russians fought against Russians, Armenians fought against Armenians.
      If Soviet Russia, then, no, we were not then allies.
      But as regards your statement:
      Quote: Seal
      Armenia never was not an ally of Russia

      then this is a lie, since Armenia since 199 .. (I don’t remember) was and is an ally of Russia, regardless of whether you like it or get nervous.


      To be continued.
      1. Seal
        Seal 15 January 2018 18: 15
        +1
        Quote: Brut
        And what will it give? If I lie somewhere, will it give you the right to talk about the whole nation? Or did you conduct this experiment with millions of other Armenians and everyone lied?

        Those on the Internet - alas, that’s it.

        Although let's.

        Let's.
        Quote: Seal
        1. The Armenians never fought with us.
        Quote: Brut
        You sometimes (when it's convenient for you) operate with very general concepts, and sometimes (also when it's convenient for you) are very specific.
        We fought. Example: in all the Russo-Turkish wars both in the armies of the Republic of Ingushetia (Russian Empire) and in the armies of the OI (Ottoman Empire) there were Armenians. And in essence, the Armenians fought with the Russians, the Armenians fought with the Turks, and even the Armenians fought with the Armenians.

        Notice I didn’t say that !!! And you well done, not every Armenian will dare to such a recognition. But for the sake of fairness, it should nevertheless be noted that in all wars, except perhaps the last, the First World War, a couple of dozen Armenians (usually officers) who served in our army accounted for one hundred Armenians who served in the Turkish army.
        However, I had a concrete participation of Armenians in the campaign of the Mamaia troops.

        Quote: Brut
        Another example: the Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh fought against the Soviet troops (Operation Ring).

        The Soviet army was equally ours, as well as Armenian, and Estonian and Georgian and Azerbaijani and Uzbek, and so on.
        Quote: Seal
        2. Armenia has always been an ally of Russia.
        Quote: genisis
        Which Armenia do you mean? Which existed several centuries before the emergence of a single Russian state, or the First Republic of Armenia, or the Armenian SSR, or the Second Republic of Armenia? Which one? And if the First Republic of Armenia was an ally of the Russian Empire, but was not an ally of Soviet Russia, then how should this be taken into account?


        Quote: Brut
        2. Armenia has never been an ally of Russia, since in a historically reliable period the Armenians did not possess a state. And when they possessed (1918-1920) - they were not our allies.
        And when is the "historical reliable period"? A reliable period in the history of mankind begins with the formation of Russian statehood (smacks of chauvinism)? That is, for you, the existence of, for example, the Roman Empire is not historically reliable?

        In fact, it is generally accepted to consider a historically reliable period to be the period from which genuine documents remained. Therefore, for me and not only for me, for example, the existence of the Roman Empire is historically unreliable. For over 20 years, more than 200 hundred people have sworn and swore that documents “left over from this empire” will easily show. And not one showed. The most stubborn declared that they are, but they say "hidden in the secret archives of the Vatican."
        If you think that “a reliable period in the history of mankind begins with the formation of Russian statehood (smacks of chauvinism)? (your spelling is preserved) - this is your personal point of view. And do not attribute it to anyone else. Including me.
        Quote: Brut
        At the beginning of the 20th century, the Russian Empire was a member of the Entente, the Republic of Armenia was an ally of the Entente, and, yes, an adversary of Soviet Russia. And so, which country do you consider your Russian Empire or Soviet Russia? By the way, for those who do not know, the Russian Empire and Soviet Russia fought among themselves (civil war). This also applies to point 1, since there were Armenians both here and there, i.e. Armenians fought against Russians, Russians fought against Russians, Armenians fought against Armenians.
        If Soviet Russia, then, no, we were not then allies.

        And here you are cheating. The Russian Empire never existed in parallel with Soviet Russia. Therefore, it is not logical to choose. When the Russian Empire existed, Armenia did not exist.

        Quote: Brut
        But as regards your statement:
        Quote: Seal
        Armenia has never been an ally of Russia
        then this is a lie, since Armenia since 199 .. (I don’t remember) was and is an ally of Russia, regardless of whether you like it or get nervous.

        The lie is with you. For the term alliance always means mutual assistance to each other. And if help goes exclusively in one direction, then this is not alliance, but parasitism. And even if you call this parasite at least 200 times an alliance, the essence of this will not change, regardless of whether you like it or get nervous.
        We look forward to continuing.
        By the way, since the genesis intervened, I can throw more questions.

        1. Was Andranik Ozanyan the general of our Russian army. All Armenian sources claim to have been.
        2. Was Turkey during the Second World War on the side of Hitler. All Armenian sources claim to have been.
        3. In 1918, the Shamkhor massacre took place near Shamkhor - an attack in January 1918 near the city of Shamkir (Shamkhor) of Azerbaijani armed groups against Russian soldiers returning home from the Caucasus front in order to seize their weapons. According to various sources, over 2000 Russian soldiers died as a result of the attack. It's true ? All Armenian sources say that yes, it was.
  44. Seal
    Seal 12 January 2018 15: 44
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    The difference is that no one cut you for this, as Turkish soldiers did with the Armenians in 1915.

    In 1915, during the eviction of eastern Armenians from the frontline zone over a long distance through not very friendly Kurdish, Turkish and Arab settlements, more than half of the resettled people died.
    In 1783, during the eviction of Armenians from Crimea a short distance near Rostov-on-Don, with the most favorable attitude of both our Russian authorities and the authorities of the Crimean Khanate, about half of the resettled people died under the leadership of the great A.V.Suvorov.

    What is the difference ???

    By the way, those of the Armenians who basically kept the internal trade of Turkey lived in Istanbul. And their (200-hundredth thousandth richest Istanbul Armenian community) repressions on a national basis did not affect them at all. Well, maybe only one of the Armenians got a face from a Turk or Kurd on the streets a couple of times across the sea.
    And all the talk about the fact that they too suffered ... nonsense. Yes, they suffered ... members of the Hnchak Party, who openly called for the defeat of Turkey in the war. Well, defeatists were not favored in any of the warring countries. Moreover, the Turkish authorities also repressed defeatists from among the Turks themselves, Kurds, Jews and so on.
    But the members of the Dashnaktsutyun party prudently refrained from making statements in this regard. And no one was hurt.
  45. Seal
    Seal 12 January 2018 15: 48
    0
    Quote: genisis
    Well, judging by the intensity of the hysteria, it was as if the lady of the horn had directed Sergei Petrovich with an ardent Armenian lol

    For children and Armenians, everything revolves only around what is accessible to them. hi
  46. Seal
    Seal 12 January 2018 15: 51
    +1
    Quote: Brut
    I’m very interested in why you hate Armenians so much?

    By the way, everything that I quoted to you, I took exclusively on Armenian resources. Why do you think that citing information taken from Armenian resources means hating Armenians?
    S.Lekhatsi is a famous Armenian travel writer of the early 17th century. To quote him means to hate the Armenians?
  47. Seal
    Seal 12 January 2018 15: 54
    0
    Quote: genisis
    The meeting with a living person was confirmed by the Internet commentary.
    Sergey Petrovich, what to take from him.

    And the fact that you own this
    Quote: genisis
    Quote: genisis
    I have not met a single Armenian who would consider Zatikyan, Baghdasaryan and Stepanyan a hero.

    didn’t confirm anything at all in your opinion completely normal? fool
    That is, there’s nothing to take from Genesis? hi
  48. Seal
    Seal 17 January 2018 18: 28
    +1
    Quote: genisis
    If you open your eyes, you will read in the paragraph about 89 SD, about the surrender of the fortress garrison - that is, the anti-aircraft tower garrison, because there are simply no other fortresses there.

    Well, you cheated ..... terribly bad person.

    To begin with, I show that there were two fortresses in the Park. One is the northern fortress (the Zenith Tower itself), the second (apparently South, if the first was called North) is the Control Tower, in which the radar was located. The north (Zenith) tower was located in the northwestern part of the Humbolt Heine Park. South (Office Tower), as expected, was located in the southern part of the Humbolt Heine Park.
    That is, you are already lying.



    Even in the passage in which the armored personnel carrier is mentioned (the presence of which you recognized by force last time), it is said about the Northern Fortress. Of course, you did not pay attention to this. Your head is busy with another - how to legalize a stolen feat. But one would then have to wonder why the fortress was named Northern?
    And then the reconnaissance translator Stepanova decided on an almost suicidal step - she volunteered to speak with the surrounded Germans. On a headquarters all-terrain vehicle, along with Lt. Col. Popov and radio operator Kalmykov, she drove right under heavy fire to the northern fortress Humboldthayn. And all three stood there, mortally risking, until on the tower they noticed their white, parliamentary flag.

    Next.
    You lied by stating that
    Here you have at the same time a map with a mark of the anti-aircraft tower and church, since you are confused around the world))


    In fact, there is no mark of the anti-aircraft tower. You stepped her with a park alley, rounded in a ring.
    I show where the anti-aircraft tower is actually located. And the control tower.

    Now set the location of the parts.
    The location of the regiments of the 89th SD on April 230.

    The location of the parts 38 SK as of 01.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX

    We see that parts of the 52nd GVSD are redeployed east, but nevertheless its right flank remains just in front of the Zenith Tower (in front of the Northern Fortress).
    Now further. Here is your opersvodka dated May 2, 1945.

    It states that on May 2, 1945, the entire 89th division captured up to 1 thousand enemy soldiers and officers.
    While in the Northern Fortress was taken according to various sources from 4 thousand to 7 thousand thousand enemy soldiers and officers. Moreover, in the opsvodka with the indication of prisoners taken 89 SD does not indicate either posts or surnames.
    But they are known. We look again. ZhBD 52nd GVSD p. 43.

    We look at the award sheet of Z. Stepanova

    So what do we see? But we see that in the award sheet of Z. Stepanova the very same posts of German generals appear in the Journal of Combat Operations of the 52nd Guards Rifle Division on page 43. Moreover, the number of prisoners - 5270 soldiers and officers is indicated the enemy. Which ideally fits into the interval from 4000 to 7000 thousand, but does not fit at all with the number of prisoners taken on May 2, 1945, the 89th SD, which took up to 1 thousand people.
    What does all of the above prove?
    And it proves that:
    The 89th division has no relation to the surrender of the Anti-aircraft Tower - Northern Fortress of Humbolthein.
    The anti-aircraft tower garrison - the Northern Fortress of Humbolthein surrendered to the 52th Guards Rifle Division.

    As a consolation, I can agree that the personnel of the Bagney Directorate, the Southern Fortress located in the southern part of the park, capitulated to the 89th Division.
    Or maybe the Fortress was called by the Armenians the church (actually a contented ancient monastery complex), located on the northeast edge of the Humbolt Hein Park.
    But in any case, 100% is not the Northern Fortress.

    So, the last time you gave out photos of the Hamburg anti-aircraft tower for the tower in Humbol Heine. I caught you on a forgery and poked my nose. I thought you would be ashamed and you will stop cheating. Alas, I was wrong. You are not at all ashamed. Now, with nothing to add, you are betraying the Antiaircraft Tower in Humbolt Hein Park ... park paths lol lol lol
    How much can you lie?
    1. Seal
      Seal 17 January 2018 19: 22
      0
      Expression: "Location of the regiments of the 89th SD on April 230."
      should read:
      "Location of the regiments of the 89th SD on April 30."
    2. genisis
      genisis 18 January 2018 14: 13
      +1
      Well, you cheated ..... terribly bad person.

      This is not me - this opersvodka headquarters 38 SK is at odds with your nonsense.
      As for the two fortresses and your attempts to pull an owl on the globe.
      Here is a map already laid out earlier

      Here is a view of the fortress from the church

      This very tower was blocked by 89 SD, for which it received its award.
      As for the actions of 52 SD.
      You yourself are posting the BD 52 CD magazine.
      Find there information about the actions of 52 SD in the Humbolt Hein Park.
      What regiments, with what means of amplification, 52 SD blocks the tower, and what’s blocking it, it simply operates in the Humbolt Hein Park from 30/04/1945 to 02/05/1945
      Find information on the actions of 52 SDs in the Humbolt Hein Park during the same period in 38 SC materials
      You will not find it, because 153, 151 regiments of 52 SD at the same time operate in a completely different place, blocking the breakthrough of the Nazis. Where you draw the right flank of 52 SD as of 01/05/1945, only 390 and 400 SP 89 SD are valid.
      Therefore, just read it again, I hope in the last, only carefully the battle logs of 52 SD, 89 SD and 38 SK and it will be very clear to you who is blocking the Germans at Humbolt Hein Park.
      These are parts of 89 SD.
      Enough already to carry nonsense here, attracting the number of prisoners by the ears, the names of fortresses and other nonsense with which you are trying to cover your noodles.
      In the period from 30/04/1945 to 02/05/1945 against the anti-aircraft tower in the north of the Humbol Hein Park, that is, the structure that you call the "northern tower", part 89 of the SD acted and this is a fact!
      1. Seal
        Seal 19 January 2018 18: 57
        0
        We analyze the next portion of lies from Genesis.
        So he writes:
        Here is a map already laid out earlier and gives a map (I won’t repeat it at the top).
        And then he gives a picture. I will not repeat it either and claims that this picture of him is Humboldhain.
        Now another flogging liar. Let me remind you that in Google there is an interesting function for pictures. If you hover over a picture, then Google will tell you exactly what it thinks is drawn or photographed in the picture. When you hover over a photo laid out by Genesis, as
        Here is a view of the fortress from the church
        the inscription appears:

        Already interesting. I am not saying that Google is never mistaken, but nevertheless, before laying out its lies, Genesis could check.
        Let's see where and how the Anti-aircraft Tower is located in Tiergarten and whether there is a church nearby.
        We're watching.

        Oh, how interesting. Near the tower at a distance of exactly 100 meters - a church complex. And behind the tower, the quarters are grayed out, which means building, that is, buildings (houses). The tower itself in Tirganden is located in a built-up quarter.

        But in the HumboltHain park there are no built-up neighborhoods.
        We look at the map.

        Moreover, in HumboltHain, the anti-aircraft tower is somewhat on a hill.

        So the view from the church on it should be at least a little bottom-up. And Genesis brought a strictly horizontal view. Which corresponds to the view from the church on the anti-aircraft tower in Tiergarden.
        In general, I congratulate you citizen Genesis with your next "lie."

        Next.
        As for the two fortresses

        Again. Both anti-aircraft systems (in HumboltKhan and Tiergarten) consisted of a pair of towers - the Anti-aircraft tower itself and the Control Tower (where there were radars that, according to the engineers who built the tower, should be removed from firing anti-aircraft guns). It was more than clearly noted in the railway division of the 52nd Division that in HumboltHain two fortresses. I show it again.

        And finally, I show the layout of the regiments of the 52nd division from the railway headquarters of this very division.

        Once again, I highlight in bold.

        Well, such an interesting configuration is obtained. Which, in general, corresponds to the configuration that I drew and against which the Genesis erupted, that
        Find information on the actions of 52 SDs in the Humbolt Hein Park during the same period in 38 SC materials
        You will not find it, because 153, 151 regiments of 52 SD at the same time operate in a completely different place, blocking the breakthrough of the Nazis. Where you draw the right flank of 52 SD as of 01/05/1945, only 390 and 400 SP 89 SD are valid.

        Yes, I did. Laid out. Everything is consistent. 155 regiment 52nd Internal Affairs Directorate holds the defense on the railway tracks from the north of the park, including defending the bridge over the railway, and 153 regiment approached the park from Brunnen Strasse. A 151 regiment is much east.



        Where are the parts of the 89th division at this time ????
        Oh yes, here they are !!!

        in my opinion it is more than clearly written that the commander of the 400th SD cuts a 89-th regiment excluding the fortress in the park HumboltHayn, Borinenstrasse and Brunnestrasse.
        The remaining 2 regiments of the 89th division on May 2 are even further from the Fortress than the 400th regiment.
        No, all the same, the authors of the joke about the optimal composition of the football team of Transcaucasia are right. An Armenian must be put in the goal. What do not show him and do not prove - he has all one
        Enough already to carry nonsense here, attracting the number of prisoners by the ears, the names of fortresses and other nonsense with which you are trying to cover your noodles.

        That is, the fact that the documentary data on the number of prisoners, by their ranks and surnames, reflected in the award sheet of Z. Stepanova fully correspond to the number of prisoners, their ranks and surnames indicated in the railroad of the 52nd GVSD - this is nonsense for him.
        But the fact that the documents of the 89th division gave a completely insignificant number of prisoners (up to 1 thousand people), without their ranks and ranks, nowhere is it indicated who and how took them prisoner - for him nonsense. The main thing is that everything is written in the award sheet of Safaryan, as it should. Well, yes, something, and Armenians know how to write award sheets for themselves - Tolstoy and Dumas are resting.
        1. Seal
          Seal 19 January 2018 19: 10
          0
          But the fact that the documents of the 89th division gave a completely insignificant number of prisoners (up to 1 thousand people), without their ranks and ranks, nowhere is it indicated who and how captured them - for him not nonsense, and the proof of the "fact of achievement" negative
          The main thing is that everything is written in the award sheet of Safaryan, as it should. Well, yes, something, and Armenians know how to write award sheets for themselves - Tolstoy and Dumas are resting. hi
          1. genisis
            genisis 20 January 2018 19: 22
            +1
            How boring it is to dunk your face in the mud of such a pompous, but narrow-minded liar like you.
            Here is a link that contains voluminous material on the fortress in Humbolt Hein and its current condition. Tell the blog author that he is wrong.
            https://technolirik.livejournal.com/121880.html
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Seal
              Seal 22 January 2018 15: 47
              0
              Oh-oh-oh ... wake up, stop seeing dreams in which you supposedly dunk someone somewhere. I’ll contact the author of the blog and I’ll calmly find out this question.
              But .... but since I found the Layout of the units of the 52nd Guards Rifle Division as of April 30.04.1945, 153, which clearly shows that the church at the north-eastern edge of the HumboltHain Park was in the zone of 52 Guards . XNUMX guards this question is no longer fundamental.
              I show the Scheme again.
              1. Seal
                Seal 22 January 2018 17: 58
                0
                But most importantly, I found where the site of the Milestone of Victory got the material about the feminine feat itself.
                This is from here.
                Kozin - commander of the 52nd Guards Rifle Division. And he specifically says that
                The fascists who settled in the northern fortress of the Gumbolt-Hein park did not give up. They tried in every possible way to break out of the "boiler".
                It was necessary to find the enemy command and offer him to stop senseless resistance. The senior lieutenant Zinaida Petrovna Stepanova, who worked in the division headquarters as a reconnaissance translator, volunteered for this mission.
                And so, on the all-terrain vehicle headquarters, the task force, which, in addition to Stepanova, included Lieutenant Colonel P. I. Popov and radio operator Semyon Fedorovich Kalmykov, who later had to remain “hostage” for a while, went to the fortress of Gumbolt-Hein Park, where the enemy command post was located . Two generals came to the group. At first, they categorically refused to capitulate. But after a long conversation, convincing arguments, one of which was the roar of our aircraft engines over Berlin, the generals accepted our ultimatum.

                What else might be unclear?
                Kozin clearly writes that he was given the task
                find the enemy command and offer him to stop senseless resistance
                Senior Lieutenant Zinaida Petrovna Stepanova, who worked in the division headquarters as a reconnaissance translator, volunteered to perform this task.
                As I told you a thousand times, from 30/04/1945 to 02/05/1945 52 SD acts at a considerable distance from the Humbolt Hein Park and cannot block the fortress.

                A lie repeated a thousand times does not become true (folk wisdom)
                I show once again the map of the location of parts of the 52nd division with distances.

                From the positions of the 153th regiment to the church - 25-30 meters.
                From the church to the Northern Fortress - 200 meters.
                If you do not deviate towards the church, then from the positions of 153 guardsmen to the Northern Fortress - 215-220 meters.
                1. genisis
                  genisis 22 January 2018 18: 20
                  0
                  tons of positions 153 of the regiment to the church - 25-30 meters.
                  From the church to the Northern Fortress - 200 meters.
                  If you do not deviate towards the church, then from the positions of 153 guardsmen to the Northern Fortress - 215-220 meters.

                  Once again, the latter, for the very gifted.
                  153 GVSP lost its position 89 SD 30/04/1945.
                  01/05/1945 153 GVSP was surrounded by the enemy, with whom he fought before the Nazis surrendered 02/05/1945
                  Stop stupid and post a beautiful, but completely useless scheme.
                  Read better the memoirs of the commander of the 52nd GvSD and the military journal of the same division.
                  Finish making yourself dumber than you are.
          2. The comment was deleted.
  49. Seal
    Seal 17 January 2018 18: 53
    0
    Quote: genisis
    As for me, so definitely a heroic man.

    But he was awarded during the "Starfall" for "exemplary performance."

    Which suggests that the award sheets were not considered in detail. As for example, in 1941, 1942, 1943 and even in 1944.
    1. genisis
      genisis 18 January 2018 14: 15
      +1
      But awarded during the "Starfall" for "exemplary performance"

      Like the rest of the 370-plus people in this Decree, whose valor you, in vain, are trying to challenge.
  50. Seal
    Seal 19 January 2018 19: 07
    0
    Quote: genisis
    Like the rest of the 370-plus people in this Decree, whose valor you, in vain, are trying to challenge.

    But do you want to give a list of Armenians who became heroes in 1941 and 1942, when everything was carefully checked and were not scattered with awards?
    Oh, I don’t feel like it !!!
    1. genisis
      genisis 21 January 2018 01: 51
      +1
      But why?
      So that ... how did you say something again about these courageous people?
      Let it remain on your conscience.