Scratch Russian and you will not find a Tatar

Did the neighborhood with the Türks and Finno-Ugrians affect the gene pool of the Russian nation, where humanity originated from, is there a danger when forming the genetic database?

The correspondent of the Russian Planet spoke with Konstantin Perfiliev, general director of DNA Heritage, and Haris Mustafin, scientific director of this company. The main occupation of DNA Heritage is the determination of the historical origin of a person using genetic research, which is carried out in the Laboratory. historical genetics, radiocarbon analysis, and applied physics created on the basis of the MIPT Genomic Center. At the same time, employees of the company are engaged in purely scientific work, they study the DNA of ancient and medieval people.

Russian Planet (RP): Please tell us about the scientific work carried out by laboratory staff.

DNA Legacy: Historical genetics, firstly, examines the modern human genome, which allows you to look into the past and determine how people settled on the earth and migrated at different periods of history, secondly, it deals with archaeological artifacts, DNA extraction and the study of the ancient genome person in order to obtain information about the origin of people living in certain regions.

If we take the middle zone of Russia, which is primarily included in the zone of our scientific interests, then we should say that experts believe that the middle zone of Russia is an extremely complex climatic zone for the preservation of DNA in archaeological artifacts. In conditions of changes in humidity, temperature, a deep degradation of DNA occurs, this leads to the fact that it is very difficult to isolate archaeological DNA, and then to obtain reliable data on the human genome.

We are actually the first in the country to develop a technology for isolating the DNA of people of the Russian Middle Ages and fully implement the methods for its decryption. We get reliable reproducible results. The main element of this technology is a system for protection against contamination, i.e. falling into the ancient, studied material particles, distinguished by contemporaries. Due to this, the uniqueness and reliability of the results of the study is achieved.

RP: What do similar studies give to a contemporary?

DNA Heritage: Understanding what the real story was. Now we are working with archaeological artifacts of ancient Yaroslavl, which was destroyed at the beginning of the XIII century, and the rich population of the city was killed. Chronicles did not retain mention of this event. As a result of archaeological excavations in Yaroslavl, places of mass graves of people were discovered. We have the opportunity to establish family ties between them, we analyze the haplogroups, haplotypes, which in turn allows us to determine the origin of people whose remains were genotyped.

Studies have just begun and for the unambiguous conclusions of the results is not enough, but so far we see that there are no representatives of the local population, the Ugrian tribes Mary and Chud, among the citizens. In the future, we will study the country mounds of the early Christian period, let's see what the results of genotyping there will be. If we determine that the local population differs significantly from the one that lived in the city, the mechanism of the birth of cities will be more clear, it will become clear that squads came along the rivers, put up a fortress, then farmers, bread-growers went to the outpost, created a settlement that interacted with the local population, with other cities, there were trade routes. This will allow us to clarify some details of the appearance of cities, principalities and the whole of the Old Russian state. We are already interacting with historians who are very grateful to us for the results presented.

RP: Can it help in determining how the Russian ethnos was formed, not even Slavic? There is an opinion that the Russians are not pure Slavs, but a mixture with the Finno-Ugrians. What do genetic studies say about the “composition” of Slavs and Russians?

DNA Heritage: Who is a Slav from the point of view of the gene pool is a very difficult question. For example, the Slavic haplogroup R1a is very common among Tajiks and Turks who are not Slavs. How to treat this? The fact is that the concept of a haplogroup determines the presence of a common ancestor in those who belong to it in the distant past. Nationalities were formed much later and therefore in any national group includes representatives of different haplogroups. When people talk about the “Slavic” haplogroup, they usually single out that haplogroup that prevails among representatives who identify themselves with the Slavic ethnos. However, it is important to emphasize that without a genetic study of a specific person, an unequivocal conclusion about the connection between his haplogroup and his nationality cannot be done; one can only speak about statistical data. Indeed, Russians include representatives of a number of haplogroups, among them most refer to the haplogroup R1a, which is very often found among the Slavs, in second place are the representatives of the haplogroup N1a (according to modern classification), among which the majority of the peoples of the Finno-Ugric language group (but not only).

RP: These concepts have not yet formed?

DNA Heritage: Now there is a process of developing statistical information, and it should be understood that the concept of a haplogroup is used primarily for population-based research that reveals how groups of people with a common ancestor are resettled in the population.

RP: Ie DNA and blood are not the main criteria for determining nationality?

DNA Heritage: Blood is an indicator of the history of the group of people who had common ancestors. History of migrations around the planet, lifestyle, indicates the landscape of residence, food and economic management system.

RP: Even on the economic system?

DNA Heritage: Of course, for example, in the Crimea, from time immemorial, fishermen and herders lived nearby, but the analysis of the Crimean gene pool shows large differences between very close neighbors. The population living in the coastal zone has a different haplotype than nomads, who live nearby in the steppe. They have gastronomic preferences, the first ate mostly seafood, the second - with meat. They have a different lifestyle. Mixing between them took place, but the features still remained.

RP: Ie with absolute accuracy to say what a person of nationality, it is impossible?

DNA Heritage: When genetic research becomes more extensive, when more people are progenotyped, and new subclades are opened (subgroups), then it will be possible to drill down, get closer to the characteristics, and say that some kind of subclause is characteristic of such then the people. At this stage, the definition of nationality is made approximately. Tajiks also have a haplogroup R1a, but the subclade is different. Those. Russians and Tajiks had a common ancient ancestor, but then a separation occurred.

Science does not stand still, new subclades are opened and refinement is taking place. The haplogroup R1a is known to have an Asian subclade, Indian and European.

R1a is a macrogaplogroup covering both Hindus, Tajiks and Russians, but if you turn on the microscope, you will see the subclade M458, typical of the Russian plain, for the Slavs. The more contemporaries will be progeny-type, and new subclades are opened, the greater the likelihood that a little branch will be opened, which will characterize, say, Ukrainians, Belarusians or Poles. Gradually, we will come to this detail.

RP: But to some extent, modern research already allows delineating the boundaries of nations?

DNA Heritage: If we talk about the Russian people, it is Russian precisely on a national basis. From the point of view of the gene pool, its composition is as follows: on the 1 site, the representatives of the haplogroup R1a, on the 2 st N1a, on the 3 st I, then R1b. This indicates the rich history of the land on which so many representatives with different ancestors live. When people have different origins, live on the same territory, they interact and enrich each other.

If in the area of ​​residence of R1a there is a steppe and forest-steppe, then N1a are forests, taiga, and border forest-steppe. There was a union of peoples who lived for a long time nearby. This happened 3 thousands of years ago. Later, on the basis of them formed the Russian people.

RP: Returning to the question of the origin of the Russians. There is a fairly common misconception that the Mongol-Tatar yoke quite strongly influenced the gene pool of the Russian nation. And since the times of the historian Karamzin, the proverb “Scrape the Russian and find the Tatar” goes on, how much does this statement correspond to reality?

DNA Inheritance: Three aspects can be distinguished here, the first by gene pool. Studies have been conducted, looking for the presence of Mongolian genes in Russian. In the Asian part of Russia, from the shores of the Pacific Ocean to the Urals, the Russian population has 3% of such genes. From the Urals to the Volga - 0.5%. From the Volga to the West - is absent.

Now we look from the other side. Mongolian traces of Slavic blood, which could appear as a result of the capture of the Russians, were also not found. Not observed in any form. This suggests that Mr. Karamzin, being an excellent writer, wrote a story that has little to do with written sources that were before him and with the results of naturally scientific research of our days.

Read the interview with representatives of DNA Heritage in the near future.

Comments

[Uncle lee]

So there was no Tatar-Mongol yoke, otherwise there would be a trace ....

the presence of Mongolian genes in Russians. In the Asian part of Russia, from the shores of the Pacific Ocean to the Urals, the Russian population has 3% of such genes. From the Urals to the Volga - 0.5%. From the Volga to the West - is absent.

[No pasaran]

Doctors all. I’m at least scraped all-nobody but Russian you will not find ...

[Sergey-svs]

Yes, we are all Russians! Because we have one homeland - Russia!

[Gardamir]

Russians! Because we have one homeland - Russia!

The Russians have the homeland of Russia, and Russia has the dear Russians.

[Varyag_0711]

Gardamir Today, 08:17 ↑ New
The Russians have the homeland of Russia, and Russia has the dear Russians.

And where is Russia? Can you imagine the difference between Russia and Russia? Russia can be called the resettlement of the ancient Slavs at the time of the creation of Kievan Rus. Or do you think that Siberia and the Urals were in ancient times Rus? Then you are no different from ancient ukrov in knowledge of their history.
And if you are such a stubborn "Russian" then you live within Moscow, Kaluga, Tula, Ryazan, Kursk, Orlovskaya and there are about a dozen other regions around Moscow. The rest is just Russia and it is inhabited not only by Russians, but also by a bunch of ethnic groups that have the right to call themselves Russians no less than yours, be they Tatars, Udmurts or Ossetians.
How do you differ from an ordinary fascist if you divide Russia into Russians and take Russians? Yes, any Tatar or Udmurt will be closer to me than such a "Russian" like you!

P.S. And the article is another nonsense.

DNA Inheritance: Three aspects can be distinguished here, the first by gene pool. Studies have been conducted, looking for the presence of Mongolian genes in Russian. In the Asian part of Russia, from the shores of the Pacific Ocean to the Urals, the Russian population has 3% of such genes. From the Urals to the Volga - 0.5%. From the Volga to the West - is absent.

Now we look from the other side. Mongolian traces of Slavic blood, which could appear as a result of the capture of the Russians, were also not found. Not observed in any form. This suggests that Mr. Karamzin, being an excellent writer, wrote a story that has little to do with written sources that were before him and with the results of naturally scientific research of our days.

Utter nonsense! It would be nice for the author of this libel to learn history. Among Batyev’s troops that came to Russia, the Mongol was very few, not more than 10 percent. The rest were a mixture of Turkic peoples, which later became Nogais, Tatars, Bashkirs, Uighurs, and a bunch of other nationalities.
It's disgusting to read, such a grief of researchers!

[venaya]

Quote: Varyag_0711

Or do you think that and Siberia and the Urals were in ancient times Rus?

Take a closer look: If 25 thousand years ago, just from present-day Siberia, they came to the Hindustan peninsula, with ancient Russian genetics and with the oldest form of the ancient Russian language, then what can it be said that even in those days Russia itself was not something other than all of today's Eurasia (Asia, the old fashioned way)? Try to refute this statement, because it is not based on nothing and based on the latest and most modern research, and not on the glitches of illiterate medieval pseudo-historians with an exclusively religious education.

[Varyag_0711]

venaya Today, 10:59 ↑
Take a closer look: If 25 thousand years ago, just from present-day Siberia, they came to the Hindustan peninsula, with ancient Russian genetics and with the oldest form of the ancient Russian language, then what can it be said that even in those days Russia itself was not something other than all of today's Eurasia (Asia, the old fashioned way)?

I will not argue with you. In many matters, I agree with you. In this case, I did not write about who and where came from, but only objected that Russia was not only that Russia about which we know from textbooks. You will not argue that the resettlement of the ancient Rus extended to Far Waxok, Altai, Kamchatka or Chukotka with Yakutia? And these are the lands of modern Russia and the peoples who are an integral part of Russia live there.

[venaya]

Quote: Varyag_0711

.. But you will not argue that the resettlement of ancient Rus extended to Far Waxok, Altai, Kamchatka or Chukotka with Yakutia? ..

I am very sorry, but I myself have nothing to do with it! It is precisely about this that the researchers of this issue who specifically deal with this topic write and speak. What should I do if they have very substantial evidence for this, which no one even intends to refute, but simply simply keep silent about it. I'll try a tiny part of them to show: Where the appearance of the Tungus is depicted in detail, published in the French, Parisian 1868 edition of La Siberie. It seems like "Caucasians", right? There are also the remains of the oldest forms of their culture, look:
Pay attention to how much they differ in creation time relative to the clay army, as if found in China. Here, after all, specialists are clearly able to determine the time of creation of these objects, by water erosion, in contrast to Chinese samples. Look for the ancient faces of the Russian gods on Brighton Beach in New York, because there are also traces of not the last millennium. So I have nothing to do with it - real objects (and even subjects), real facts ...

[Alexey-74]

Fomenko, Nosovsky and other studies? Do not confuse the ancient migration of peoples with ancient Russian genetics, which was not even mentioned then, but began to break up into clans and communities much later, and then in the nation ....

[Alexey-74]

Well, if we take about Russia, then earlier it arose not in Kievan Rus, but in the North-Western lands: Ladoga, Novgorod, etc., later, after Oleg’s campaign, conditionally Kievan Rus was created. About the campaign of Genghis Khan, so there was generally a conglomerate of representatives of the Mongoloid race and Turkic tribes. Among the Horde troops, the Tuvinians were an elite who were particularly cruel and were close to the throne of Genghisides ...

[voyaka uh]

“Among the Batyev’s troops that came to Russia, the Mongol was very few, not more than 10 percent” ///

Arab and Chinese contemporaries of events and chroniclers believe the opposite.
That more than 90% were Mongols and only about 10% were from other nations.
It is noted that on a campaign in Eastern Europe against the Germans and Poles, and then the Hungarians and Croats. Batu took only the Mongols. It is noteworthy that in a 4-year campaign Batu did not suffer a single military defeat. But he could not occupy or vassal such vast lands.

[The centurion]

Quote: voyaka uh

It is noted that the campaign in Eastern Europe against the Germans and Poles, and then the Hungarians and Croats. Baty took only the Mongols.

I wonder who noted? King Bela noted differently.
"In 1239 - 1240, defeating the southern Russian principalities, Batu sent his tumens to Western Europe. Warriors from Russia, including Cherkasy and Wanderers, took part in the campaign of the Mongol-Tatars against their ancient enemies of Ugric and Lyakhov Numerous European chronicles and chronicles of that time paint not at all the Mongolian appearance and language of the Tatar-Mongolian troops that came to Europe. For example, the Hungarian king Bela wrote to the Pope: “When the Hungarian state was invaded by the Mongols, as if from a plague, And How The sheepfold was surrounded by various tribes of infidels, namely: Russian vagrants from the east, Bulgarians and other heretics from the south ... "."
https://topwar.ru/22250-davnie-kazachi-predki.htm
l

[ver_]

..nation and nationality The Mongol appeared only at the beginning of the 20th century ... No need to shag your grandmother .. Google to help you .. No one 200-300 years ago could not even imagine that such a nation would be ... Any mention of the Mongols before this time - are insolvent ..

[long in stock.]

Well, yes .. and the Mughal empire in India is certainly not wealthy ... fairy tales are all .. and yes, Russia as a state appeared under Peter 1. means any mention of Russians before this time is not wealthy ... bravely excellent conclusion. and Germany appeared in the 19th century .... so the Germans, too, wasn’t ... did you try to use logic?

[ver_]

.. do you think the Mongol and the Mogul are the same thing? ..

[Gardamir]

if you divide Russia into Russian and do you understand?

Is it not like you are proud that you are Russians, and you don’t care what flag to go to the Olympics. I am from the area where Erzya and Moksha, mountain and meadow cherimisa, Tatars, Udmurts live.
Read carefully Russia. Where do you see Russia here, even in a foreign language it is read and pronounced like Russia. Do you believe school teachers, although in the stake they told us about the Mongol-Tatars. Only in the 19th century in Russia all Mohammedans (Muslim) were called Tatars.
Do you believe that Batyevo army came to Russia, and I doubt it. Perhaps Christianization was that yoke.
Volga Tatars lived on that land, even when Batu’s grandfather was not born and they were then Mohammedans. You argue with the author and with me, but your evidence is also controversial.

[The centurion]

Quote: Gardamir

Only in the 19 century in Russia, all the Mohammedans (Musulman) were called Tatars.

"According to the resolution of the Kurultay 1235, which took place in the capital of the Mongolian Empire, Karokorum, the all-Mongolian Western campaign to the coast of the Atlantic Ocean, the campaign to the" last (extreme) sea "was assigned to 1237. 14 Tsarevich-Chingizids, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of Genghis Khan took charge of them. Khan Batu was appointed commander-in-chief, the veteran of the Western campaigns Subedey was in charge of the training. The yen (in the Russian history called Tatars) concentrated on the territory of the Bashkirs who were recently subdued by Subedei. According to the Mongol custom, they called all the allied and Mongolian peoples “Tatars”, which meant “other, alien”, that is, not Mongols. In the ancient Turkic language (also in some modern Turkic languages) the word "tat" means a stranger, a foreigner, a stranger. The end "ar" (er, ir) means a person, a man, a husband. This Turkic ethnonym is used in many names of peoples and tribes with the end of “ar, ir”: Tatars, Khazars, Bulgars, Avars, Madzhars, Bashkirs, etc. The Mongol custom to call all aliens in one word took root later in Russia. For many centuries, all non-Russian peoples of the south-east were also called Tatars by the Russians, and all non-Russian peoples of the West were called Germans (“not we”). "

[Gardamir]

Mongol Empire

Are you sure that such an empire existed in reality? I also indulge in fantasy at my leisure. Already created a whole world founded by the prince nicknamed Lut, another year or two, and you can replace the current history of Russia with mine.

the word tat means a stranger

I don’t know, but as a child I heard the word tata or aunt.

[long in stock.]

there is another word, and from there you can derive the origin ...

[tasha]

There are also works by E. Parker

Twenty-five centuries ago, a thousand years before the ethnonym “Turk” appeared, Chinese written sources used the word “Tatars” (ta-ta or ta-tzu) in relation to the Turkish-speaking tribes of Hien-nu. Moreover, the name of the Hien-nu (Tatars) tribe under various names (si-yun, hun-yue, hien-yun) is mentioned in Chinese dynastic chronicles from the 3rd millennium BC. Therefore, this means that the written history of the Tatars - at least the emergence of the "long-suffering" ethnonym "Tatars" - goes back centuries, to the times of the first foci of Chinese civilization.

[Krasnoyarsk]

= Volga Tatars lived on that land, even when Batu’s grandfather was not born and they were then Mohammedans. You argue with the author and with me, but your evidence is also controversial. = Strange. And they told me that there lived the Volga Bulgars. I even had a conversation with them, and they assured me that the Bolsheviks forcibly wrote them down to the Tatars. Just as Russians in Ukraine were recorded, at the same time, in Ukrainians.

[Krasnoyarsk]

= Utter nonsense! It would be nice for the author of this libel to learn history. Among Batyev’s troops that came to Russia, the Mongol was very few, not more than 10 percent. The rest were a mixture of Turkic peoples, which later became Nogais, Tatars, Bashkirs, Uighurs, and even a bunch of nationalities. =
And you, dear, can you prove it? Have you done your research on this issue, or have you read somewhere? If you read, then why do you prefer the author about 10 percent and are so disrespectful (utter nonsense!) To the author of the article under discussion? Just because you like 10 percent more? Or are there other motives? Enlighten, if not difficult.

[Ilya Klementyev]

Tatars and Bashkirs did not participate in the raids of the Mongol-Tatars.

[ALEA IACTA EST]

“Russia” is “Rus” in the Greek manner. Do not call me, the result is one.

[kush62]

Gardamir Today, 08:17 ↑
Russians! Because we have one homeland - Russia!
The Russians have the homeland of Russia, and Russia has the dear Russians.

The Communists in the person of Gardamira began to advocate for the purity of the race. Somewhere it was already.
And the friendship of peoples, and the proletarians of all countries, unite?

[kush62]

Gardamir Yesterday, 22:28 ↑ New
The Communists in the person of Gardamira began to advocate for the purity of the race
As Bulat Shalvovich sang, everyone jerks off as he wants. What are you doing masturbation? Or the Yeltsin’s business lives and conquers. Did everyone suddenly want to become Russians? Only a Russian and a resident of Russia is not the same thing.

Do not renounce your former one party member. You accepted him into your party, you raised him in your ranks, and now you are reproaching them all. Your he is a real communist. Well, about your masturbation. Jerk off, as you want, not to women. We must have time to blame everyone.

[Pax tecum]

How did you manage to connect the "purity of the race" with the "friendship of peoples" and unite with the "proletarians of all countries."
Those. crossed genetics with politics?
It’s not in the Union, it’s not the column “nationality” in the passport. This is now trying to blur the concept of "Russian".
And, Soviet science clearly defined both nationality and nationality.
Ethnography, ethnology - excellent Soviet / post-Soviet publications, textbooks.
At least briefly review, do not read.

[combat192]

Russian is not a nationality. Russian is self-identification with a certain way of perceiving the world (Russian World) and the corresponding way of thinking.
Maybe I wrote it hard, but I personally know the Tatars, Bashkirs, Jews, Armenians (I will not list everyone), who are more RUSSIAN than many "purebred Rusaks."
Therefore, it is better not to mention the issue of genetics and religion, because you will run into insults, in the absence of physical contact ..

[Warrior Hamilton]

Russian is a nationality. The provocateurs are trying to kill self-consciousness in Russians, proving that they exist: Tatars, Jews, Kazakhs, Germans, but no Russians. There is some kind of “self-identification with a certain way of perceiving the world” among the Mongol-Tatar Finno-Finns, who do not have the right to be called a nation. All nations have the right to "self-determination", but the Russians do not, because is not a nationality, but a virtual "state of mind." Living in Mukhosk and not communicating with other nations and peoples, provocateurs think that by calling a person of another nation “RUSSIAN more than many“ purebred Russians ”, they thereby elevate him above everyone and himself and that this is great praise and encouragement. This is actually an insult. Call the Kazakh a Uyghur and get the kumpol, because the Kazakh is self-sufficient as well as the Uyghur, or Russian, and they all get along well in everyday life. Why should a Tatar, a Yakut or a Tuvinian rejoice at the fact that he is called Russian? If you were a boy, I would say: “You live by illusive illusions”, but because you are not "Kolyasurengoy", but an adult uncle ..............

[combat192]

Would you be so kind as to answer me one question. Is Russian from the Vologda region and Russian from Kursk one nationality? If so, why do they differ in appearance, have different traditions, different national costumes, and even speak different languages?
But Russian by birth, "Kolyusurengoy", I would not call Russian.

[Bakht]

It was interesting in childhood to watch "Andrei Rublev" by Tarkovsky. Chapter "Raid". When one Russian kills another Russian with the words "Vladimir’s creature."
I am afraid that in the days of Batu and later until 1480, the Russians from Tver, Ryazan and Vladimir were very different. About Novgorod in general is better not to mention.

[Warrior Hamilton]

I'm not going to be nice to you. The Russian nation was formed long ago. She is far beyond a thousand years, and no one needs to prove this to anyone. Whether a Russian person wears a cloak and gazyrs or an earflaps in Omsk in the Kuban is not the definition of the Russian people. You'd better tell that - a thread about drunken veDmedy on the streets, men with balalaikas, eating red caviar with barrels of spoons.

[combat192]

I didn’t see drunken bears, I saw men with balalaikas at the concert, and as for red caviar, I’ll eat it, darling, which I also wish for you.

[Sergej1972]

We have the majority of the Russian population living in large cities, and there are no serious differences between the Russians. Russians are just one of the most homogeneous peoples of the world.

[Felix99]

Quote: Gardamir

rAsiyanpanimash

Is there something Yeltsin in this word?

[MoJloT]

Hero without controversy

[Gardamir]

[quote] [Hero without debatable / quote] what nonsense in the film, and how it was advertised. Not a word about the Soviet ...

[Dimmih]

Genetic analysis in the studio!

[long in stock.]

why dark-haired? exactly Russian?

[Cxnumx]

Quote from Uncle Lee

So there was no Tatar-Mongol yoke, otherwise there would be a trace ....

specially for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGlucDtZdjY

[Uncle lee]

There is no one there!
PS And you are not a descendant of Genghis? And I read the books of Jan, but there it turned!

[Cxnumx]

Quote from Uncle Lee

There is no one there! PS And you are not a descendant of Genghis? And I read the books of Jan, but there it turned!

for some reason, below people found: "Tama everything is true!" Mom is Ukrainian, Dad is Russian. write to descendants?

[Uncle lee]

I also firmly believed in the TM yoke from school, books, etc. But another version appeared and it has a reality to be! This is a moot point and so far no one can prove it!
There is much in the world, Horatio's friend, which our sages have not dreamed of.

[Cxnumx]

Quote from Uncle Lee

This is a moot point and so far no one can prove it!

more precisely: the critical reviews given by historians on these new "works" and evidence of their scientific bias do not suit their authors and admirers.

[Uncle lee]

You can write everything, the paper will endure! But no one really knows how it was.

[Cxnumx]

Quote from Uncle Lee

You can write everything, the paper will endure! But no one really knows how it was.

you can wait another 20 years and say - the loss of the USSR in the Second World War to more than 25 million people is nonsense! there are no living witnesses, but the paper will endure everything, you can write anything. The US did not bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki - it's just propaganda. Berlin freed by the French. video? over time, and the films will deteriorate. and you can’t believe digital anymore - you can easily fake it if you wish.

[Uncle lee]

In 500 years, if there is no Russia, they will say so!
And in Japan they ALREADY say that the Russians dropped atomic bombs. And in the Second World War, the United States and England defeated, and the USSR only helped. And Gagarin, the Russian cosmonaut, flew into space, and Tereshkova was the second female astronaut, after the American. They are talking about the past now, but what will they say in 500 years?
But about the present: In Syria, the coalition led by the United States defeated, and Russia clung to the victory! What? Are you talking about a yoke that was 500 years ago, or maybe it wasn’t, or maybe not a yoke, or maybe not the Tatar-Mongolian, or maybe not a yoke at all?

[Cxnumx]

Quote from Uncle Lee

In 500 years, if there is no Russia, they will say so!
And in Japan they ALREADY say that the Russians dropped atomic bombs. And in the Second World War, the United States and England defeated, and the USSR only helped. And Gagarin, the Russian cosmonaut, flew into space, and Tereshkova was the second female astronaut, after the American. They are talking about the past now, but what will they say in 500 years?

OK. for any lies do you offer what? accept as "the place to be point of view"?

Quote from Uncle Lee

Are you talking about a yoke that was 500 years ago, or maybe it wasn’t, or maybe not a yoke, or maybe not the Tatar-Mongolian, or maybe not a yoke at all?

really. in this way it is possible to slide down to the Roman Empire, and the Greek city-states, and the invasion of the Persians to them, and the Macedonian campaigns to those and there was not, and this. Today any it can fill up nonsense of pages by 100, declare all the evidence collected earlier a lie (just like that and say it's a lie; no arguments), and critics - agents paid for by the authorities. let's believe / not believe in everything. REN-TV / TV3 - our idol!

[Uncle lee]

History forgers are full everywhere!

[would]

And in Japan they ALREADY say that the Russians dropped atomic bombs.

In such cases, words need to be confirmed. For example, people living in Japan say that this is a pure fake.

https://youtu.be/8bxUMUehdJ4?t=3m10s

[CONTROL]

Quote: Uncle Lee

And in Japan they ALREADY say that the Russians dropped atomic bombs.

What is it - in Japan! This is already being taught in Russian schools !!!
We, the parents of the students, filed an application with the prosecutor ...

[passerby5]

and in more detail is possible? and who is their teacher? and what book does he teach?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: K0

Mom is Ukrainian, Dad is Russian.

Cossacks the same nationality? No, Russians. As well as Ukrainians who received "nationality" from their place of residence. But essentially the same Russian people.

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Cossacks the same nationality? No, Russians. As well as Ukrainians who received "nationality" from their place of residence. But essentially the same Russian people.

Well, maybe for someone it is "fundamentally"))

[Ingvar 72]

These principles are imposed from without, with the goal of splitting within one people.

[a housewife]

Cossacks are not nationality at all! This is the estate. And they could accept any person into the Cossacks, the main thing was to profess Orthodoxy!

[would]

Well, it turns out that the Norman yoke (the Norman conquest of England, which in terms of the yoke was much better) was not in England. There is no genetic trace

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: rait

There is no genetic trace

Sure? Research conducted?
In general, England was conquered by all and sundry - the Romans, Saxons, Normans. And they remained in power until the next conqueror arrived.

[would]

Of course they were, as well as around the world. And the Normans did not find a genetic trace in England, or rather found within the margin of error. Well, if so, then according to all of these Klesovs there was no Norman yoke! And the yoke ... well, it was invented by evil Slavs to humiliate the poor Anglo-Saxons

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: rait

Of course they were, as well as around the world.

Can I link?

[would]

Of course. As an example, take the Scandinavian L1

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DN
A.shtml

[Vend]

Scrape the German you will find a Slav.

[Vend]

Quote: Uncle Lee

So there was no Tatar-Mongol yoke, otherwise there would be a trace ....

the presence of Mongolian genes in Russians. In the Asian part of Russia, from the shores of the Pacific Ocean to the Urals, the Russian population has 3% of such genes. From the Urals to the Volga - 0.5%. From the Volga to the West - is absent.

What do you think, the army of Genghis Khan and Batu was entirely Mongols? Yes there were so many peoples. The Mongols stood at the top of power. And if you think that the Horde married Russians and settled in Russia? Read at least V. Yan, this is of course fiction, but there it is readily written about the attitude of the Horde towards the Russians in the conquered cities.

[Blombirus]

Which Mongols conquered us? What nonsense? Have you seen the Mongols? Those then, from the present, in the steppe, are no different. Who could they conquer? For such interventions, about which "historians" on salary lie to us in detail, we need a powerful economy! Where is she? At least indirect traces of her remains? Netuti nothing! What a trouble! Regarding the works of Yana. Was he there in those days? Lived? Did you drink beer beer? His fiction does not draw on scientific research, alas and ah! So do not refer to storytellers and other akyns.

[Same lech]

The Mongols did not find traces of Slavic blood, which could appear as a result of the capture of the Russians.

So I would like to ask the advocates of the Tatar-Mngol yoke ... how can this be?
How can it be that at the sites of major battles (according to official history), the Russians and Batu’s troops did not find any mass graves, nor a large amount of weapons, nor the remains of horses.
The official history always suffers from the peculiarity of conciliation with the opinion of those in power ... how they decide it will be and they adjust the actual history to manipulate or destroy relics as it suits them.

[Rurikovich]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

So I would like to ask the advocates of the Tatar-Mngol yoke ... how can this be? what

Welcome
Yes, it's very simple! The adherents of the official version have firm evidence - Genghis Khan, on pain of death, forbade incest with the "subjugated" peoples and the army for 3 (!!!) centuries holy blunt entot testament
And this is in all seriousness ....

[Antianglosax]

Quote: Rurikovich

Adherents of the official version

Sick people...

[novel66]

the funny thing is not even this, but the fact that no one really answered the question - and why the hell did the nomads with their mentality go so far away from their native steppes? Yanovskoye - "go to the last sea", not to offer because this is nonsense

[voyaka uh]

"and why the nomads with their mentality stumbled so far from their native steppes" ///

And fuck the ancient tribes of the Mongoloid race from Asia crossed the Bering Isthmus (then
there was no strait) and non-stop went along the American continent to the south - to Chile.
Tens of thousands of kilometers. Until they bumped. Indians.
Is it strange? - but a fact. Both genetics and artifacts confirm this.
Why shouldn’t the ancestors of the Mongols go to the West?

[novel66]

just wouldn't go, maybe. cataclysm what happened. (aliens?) but the Mongols ... capturing a bold piece in the form of China, and in Asia - why go further? eat fat, peck on the head with slaves on the head, enjoy the hunt with pleasure, so there is no further twisting, someone even dies to death - why?

[long in stock.]

and when this and to whom the dough was enough? from and went further ... followed the grandmothers ... and with entertainments then it was a little tough, and here they beat each other. It's boring after all ...

[Blombirus]

Quote: voyaka uh

"and why the nomads with their mentality stumbled so far from their native steppes" ///

And fuck the ancient tribes of the Mongoloid race from Asia crossed the Bering Isthmus (then
there was no strait) and non-stop went along the American continent to the south - to Chile.
Tens of thousands of kilometers. Until they bumped. Indians.
Is it strange? - but a fact. Both genetics and artifacts confirm this.
Why shouldn’t the ancestors of the Mongols go to the West?

Maybe they went, but genetics and artifacts deny this! The same end in the same place. Do not give thanks.

[novel66]

and as for incest, all simply harsh Mongols were severely protected, forcing women, so that not a drop to the enemy!

[voyaka uh]

Or maybe the kids just didn't work out? Conception does not always happen.
Conquistadors raped Indian women in America with might and main, but very few mestizos.

[novel66]

mind you have it! and not zero percent, well, it doesn’t

[Siban]

Quote: voyaka uh

Or maybe the kids just didn't work out? Conception does not always happen.
Conquistadors raped Indian women in America with might and main, but very few mestizos.

I think it was prosaic. Drowned children from rape in the nearest river. Well, or for sure, and then there were ways to terminate a pregnancy ..

[voyaka uh]

It is truth too.

[would]

And do not forget that rape is not something gentle and sensual even in the present time. Even now, after rape by 10-20 men, the victim can easily die from ruptures of the corresponding organs. Then when they did not know sanitation and antiseptics and did not know how to deal with infection and even more so.

Well, if you recall the sources according to which the Mongols killed all life in the captured cities, then they could chop off the head of the raped themselves after the "fun".

[E_V_N]

Quote: Rurikovich

The adherents of the official version have firm evidence - Genghis Khan, on pain of death, forbade incest with the "subjugated" peoples and the army for 3 (!!!) centuries holy blunt entot testament

Do you think that they maliciously ridiculed the stupidity of the "followers"? And you didn’t think that the representatives of the “blue bloods” married their own kind and had their “pedigrees” from Noah or Adam and all in the family tree were kings and princes? But the "mob" married the mob and the road to the "light" was ordered, and if anyone made his way, by the pedigree he still was not equal to the "purebred blue". And you're talking about 300 flax, 300 years old, with blue bloods the bill for millennia goes.

[novel66]

dear, and you heard a word like "bastard", in Russian, got married, you got married, but the gene pool was generously thrown, well, not with your hand, of course,

[Cxnumx]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

So I would like to ask the advocates of the Tatar-Mngol yoke ... how can this be?

and for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGlucDtZdjY

[Same lech]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGlucDtZdjY

Kindergarten...

[Cxnumx]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Kindergarten...

already watched? or rather not? and what is kindergarten? that a real historian, with a corroboration of confirmed facts (he even indicates a list of sources there), parses the "type of joke" of the next blogger / vlogger about the non-existence of the Tatar-Mongol?

[Same lech]

a real historian, with a corroboration of confirmed facts (he even indicates a list of sources there), parses the "type of joke" of the next blogger / vlogger about the non-existence of the Tatar-Mongol?

Real historians do not make jokes with bloggers ... you can’t prove anything to fools.
It’s just that I had a firm conviction that not everything is clean in the version (I emphasize the version) of the Tatar-Mongol yoke.
I put myself in the place of the so-called Tatar-Mongols and tried to walk thousands of kilometers in the winter in the snow. in conditions of constant cold, without developed
supply systems to the expanses of RUSSIA and still fight there with a hostile population.

Something more like science fiction.

[Cxnumx]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Real historians do not make jokes with bloggers ... you can’t prove anything to fools.

really? and when the same subscribers of this blogger in the Bundestag about innocent-killed begin to carry nonsense - then you need to prove it?

Quote: The same LYOKHA

It’s just that I had a firm conviction that not everything is clean in the version (I emphasize the version) of the Tatar-Mongol yoke.
I put myself in the place of the so-called Tatar-Mongols and tried to walk thousands of kilometers in the winter in the snow. in conditions of constant cold, without developed
supply systems to the expanses of RUSSIA and still fight there with a hostile population.
Something more like science fiction.

you say that they came to us every year almost from China. everything was much closer. even the lands of the Volga Bulgaria did not belong to us yet. and the Macedonian campaign in the heat during the rainy seasons in India does not bother you? and the crusader’s campaigns in Jerusalem, in the same wild heat, without roads with the active resistance of Muslims?

[Same lech]

you say that they came to us every year almost from China.

It's about tens of thousands of people ...
Imagine that all this mass of people with full arms with their wives and children. The carts rushing through the Siberian taiga.
As a native of SIBERIA I will say after a good snowstorm and snowstorm you will be stuck for a long time with all this belongings where the snowstorm has overtaken you.

[Cxnumx]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

It's about tens of thousands of people ...
Imagine that all this mass of people with full arms with their wives and children. The carts rushing through the Siberian taiga.
As a native of SIBERIA I will say after a good snowstorm and snowstorm you will be stuck for a long time with all this belongings where the snowstorm has overtaken you.

What other wives and children go on military campaigns? it was not a relocation of a nomadic tribe, but a conquest. even at the expense of the carts there is no exact information, and a rider with clockwork can wave several tens of kilometers per day. second you have a blizzard and snowstorm all winter? I live in Siberia myself: since the beginning of the winter of this year, a snowstorm has been 3 or 4 times. and in the summer the Tatars melted like snow or did they start a massive allergy and they immediately ran home? and the house should be in place of the current Mongolia or what?

[Same lech]

What other wives and children go on military campaigns?

They’re coming ... even as they are. Among the nomadic peoples I carry all my things with me

Often they themselves became the prey of those to whom they went.

and a rider with clockwork can wave several tens of kilometers per day. second you have a blizzard and snowstorm all winter?

What will you feed the horses then, but there were more than one thousand of them?

[Cxnumx]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

They're coming ... even as they go
Often they themselves became the prey of those to whom they went.

I don’t remember something like that, excluding the resettlement of tribes and peoples. the Tatar-Mongols did not move anywhere - they went to subjugate the land, in order to receive tribute and robbery. here wives and children are not required in principle.

Quote: The same LYOKHA

What will you feed the horses then, but there were more than one thousand of them?

in fact, oats were known in those days. I am already silent about the grain that could be picked up in the conquered settlements. all the others went the same way.

[Same lech]

It is interesting to oppose you find the answer to everything ... that I do not always succeed on the move ...
until you convinced me ... I’ll get better prepared I will try to refute your thoughts

[E_V_N]

Quote: K0

the Tatar-Mongols did not move anywhere - they went to subjugate the land, in order to receive tribute and robbery.

"Over the heifer is a little bird, but it’s expensive to transport." Siberia at that time was sparsely populated, there was practically no agriculture, the same nomads lived, what land could be conquered there and what tribute from the nomad was collected, and even on a long-term basis. In addition, Chingiz was near by China, I do not want to rob, why rush to distant lands?
And so, in your opinion, it turns out they went on a “campaign of conquest” it is not known where, it is not known who to conquer, not knowing if there is anything at all and someone there. Went through southern Siberia for about 5 years, then Russia was robbed and another 5 years were supposed to return with the loot? And who "at home on the farm" remained the wife of the children and the elderly if the soldiers left? And their neighbors haven’t touched all this time?

Quote: K0

in fact, oats were known in those days. I am already silent about the grain that could be picked up in the conquered settlements.

Where was oat known? in Mongolia, in southern Siberia? who grew it there, nomads? Even in Russia, a lot of oats were grown in those days, cultivating the land with plow? Do you seriously think that one village grew oats enough to feed 100 - 000 horses and soldiers while they go to the next? In addition, the climate of Inner Mongolia and Northern China and the climate of southern Siberia and Altai are two big differences. In Altai in the winter you can’t dig grass from the snow for horses.
Sorry, but you talk too childishly.

[WarriorWolf]

Hmm, a rider with a clockwork per day was able to go 10-15 miles. Konyag something needs to be cared for. The distance from Mongolia to Moscow (one of the largest principalities of Russia) is about 5500 miles. As a result, the peasants spent about 366 days (15 miles each) without days off and without being distracted even by the same traitors (read the Buryats), the Khakassavs, Altaians and others jumped, jumped, and how let the Slavs come to life ...
I am embarrassed to ask in terms of sex did they go hand to hand or to each other?

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Warrior Wolf

Hmm, a rider with a clockwork per day was able to go 10-15 miles. Konyag something needs to be cared for. The distance from Mongolia to Moscow (one of the largest principalities of Russia) is about 5500 miles.

you are already ... lifted up with this crooked distance measurement. The capital of Z. Horde is Barn! This is the ASTRAKHAN REGION now! Yes, you do not trifle, consider immediately the distance from Beijing, and set the conditions that they have three months in winter or summer + they must go back for the same time. Norms, logic.

Quote: Warrior Wolf

I am embarrassed to ask in terms of sex did they go hand to hand or to each other?

What kind of bullshit?
I’m embarrassed to ask, but how are we now on the submarines, who are on campaigns? and on the ISS? But at the polar bases? But in Atarctis? Do we have special personnel there at all? and in your opinion they basically could not stay in the union camp or use the women of the vanquished?

[WarriorWolf]

Quote: K0

Z. Hordes - Barn! This is the ASTRAKHAN REGION now!

how they drill they added to their army, and where they are read ... I do not argue that the capital of Z.Ordy became Sarai ... in the future, but initially it was necessary to organize somewhere. PPD so to speak ...

Quote: K0

I’m embarrassed to ask, but how are we now on the submarines, who are on campaigns? and on the ISS? But at the polar bases? But in Atarctis? Do we have special personnel there at all? and in your opinion they basically could not stop in the allied camp

Heard about chemistry, no?
about:

Quote: K0

or take advantage of the women of the vanquished?

This is what the article says that there are no massive signs of use. Well, or Slavic blood is stronger ...

[ver_]

..if you do not refer to * luminaries * in historical sciences * - you hell * what thesis * defend * ...- so everything goes on * knurled track *, and * arise * -will be ostracized and the path to science you * will bring * .. do not spoil yourself ...

[Mobik]

Taiga? What taiga? The steppe corridor through all of Eurasia is not heard.

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Mobik

Taiga? What taiga? The steppe corridor through all of Eurasia is not heard.

show me the taiga in Kazakhstan? and also tell about it the Astrakhan steppes, where was the Horde rate?

[E_V_N]

Quote: K0

show me the taiga in Kazakhstan? and also tell about it the Astrakhan steppes, where was the Horde rate?

And you calculate the distance from inner Mongolia to the steppes of Kazakhstan and the Astrakhan steppes. it was still necessary to get to them. And in Mongolia they should have known that there are Kazakhstan and Astrakhan steppes. Oh yes, the nomads were very educated, and there was a globe in every wagon.

[Cxnumx]

Quote: E_V_N

And you calculate the distance from inner Mongolia to the steppes of Kazakhstan and the Astrakhan steppes. it was still necessary to get to them.

and you count how many years they moved west.
and most relish

Quote: E_V_N

And in Mongolia they should have known that there are Kazakhstan and Astrakhan steppes. Oh yes, the nomads were very educated, and there was a globe in every wagon.

then the Vikings could sail in the seas where on the horizon the shore is not visible for several days!and the Mongols were so dumbthat they couldn’t even ask the neighbors: "who lives there further from you? what do they have?" and they were horrified how terrible it was to suddenly believe the answers, and go down the earth further. it remains to wonder how the Indians managed to get to America! it's terrible how terrible it is to go on the earth))) and only about Aboriginal people in Australia - it's fiction. nobody lived there before the white English)))
PS Well, in the campaigns to the west, they went exclusively from China itself, and only in winter. the capital in the city of Saray does not fit into this nonsense - therefore, "the invention of modern paid pseudo-historians."

[long in stock.]

why are they going through Siberia lekh? Silk road was known long before the Mongols ....

[ver_]

.. along this path * went * in the bulk of the caravans of camels, they are very different from horses, can not drink for 2 weeks .. and there were caravanserais ..

[long in stock.]

all the major cities of Asia stood on this path ... the places inhabited by roads are explored. If properly organized, you can stomp calmly. What did the Mongols do ... it was only at Lehi that they crossed through Siberia ...

[E_V_N]

Quote: K0

you say that they came to us every year almost from China. everything was much closer. even the lands of the Volga Bulgaria did not belong to us yet. and the Macedonian campaign in the heat during the rainy seasons in India does not bother you? and the crusader’s campaigns in Jerusalem, in the same wild heat, without roads with the active resistance of Muslims?

You confuse soft with white. The Macedonian and Crusaders did not rush into their campaigns with families and belongings. They had a specific goal, the crusaders of the Holy Sepulcher, the conquest of the world by Macedon, though the world turned out to be much larger than Alexander had originally imagined. In addition, both of your examples are campaigns of highly developed, for that time, states with cities and government.
What could be the purpose of nomads with a clan-tribal structure, without the beginnings of statehood? Power? Money? Conquering the world? New feed base?
Genghis Khan was not the largest and most powerful. Strangers could not join the clan. It is simply not possible to subordinate and keep the lands equal and even large to modern Russia without a clear and very well-structured state system. In addition, the purpose of this event is completely unclear from the point of view of Genghis Khan.

[Cxnumx]

Quote: E_V_N

You confuse soft with white. The Macedonian and Crusaders did not rush into their campaigns with families and belongings.

no, you confuse the relocation of the people / tribe / union of tribes and the military campaign. the Tatar-Mongols did not remain to live in the conquered land of Russia. why would they drag families here? Svyatoslav here conquered Bulgaria, but also did not drag women and children with him. although I wanted to transfer the capital.

Quote: E_V_N

In addition, both of your examples are campaigns of highly developed, for that time, states with cities and government.

Did they drag these cities / devices with them? than a campaign to enrich the barbarians (I emphasize campaign) different from the campaign of the Greeks?

Quote: E_V_N

What could be the purpose of nomads with a clan-tribal structure, without the beginnings of statehood? Power? Money? Conquering the world? New feed base?

and for what purpose did the Slavs, Varangians, Vikings go on raids? nobody moved the capital of the Horde from Sarai. or do you think the Mongols were so! wild that they didn’t even understand the meaning of enrichment due to robbery? or that they did not know how to trade with neighbors, changing surpluses to the right?

Quote: E_V_N

It is simply not possible to subordinate and keep the lands equal and even large to modern Russia without a clear and very well-structured state system.

let’s then be more specific, what kind of land is "large of modern Russia"? The Golden Horde occupied much smaller territories.

Quote: E_V_N

In addition, the purpose of this event is completely unclear from the point of view of Genghis Khan.

To begin with, Batu was involved in this event. those. is it not enough for you to subjugate neighboring lands, receiving enormous wealth, first with looting, and then regularly with tribute? for all of Europe this is an occasion, but for others, isn’t it?

[E_V_N]

Quote: K0

no, you confuse the relocation of the people / tribe / union of tribes and the military campaign. the Tatar-Mongols did not remain to live in the conquered land of Russia. why would they drag families here? Svyatoslav here conquered Bulgaria, but also did not drag women and children with him.

The campaign of Svyatoslav fit into several months, passed through habitable places. The campaign of Genghis Khan-Batu for several years, on sparsely populated poor lands with very foggy end prospects. The enterprise looks like an adventure, especially when you consider that nearby was a fairly rich and developed China, capable of giving the Mongols all conceivable "buns".

Quote: K0

Did they drag these cities / devices with them? How is the campaign for the enrichment of the barbarians (I emphasize the campaign) different from the campaign of the Greeks?

Are you kidding me? Cities, of course, were not dragged, but they should have had ideas about the state system if they were going to seize land in order to receive tribute?
The Greeks were just going to expand their kingdoms, and not just “plunder” their neighbors.

Quote: K0

Do you think the Mongols were so! wild that they didn’t even understand the meaning of enrichment due to robbery? or that they did not know how to trade with neighbors, changing surpluses to the right?

You know, different peoples have very different ideas about values. For a Mongol, the value of 1000 horses, for a Slav a field of cultivated, cleared from the heaps of the earth, 1000 horses he does not need for nothing, just 2x3 strong ones capable of dragging are enough. Like the Mongol, the earth to the bulb, even plowed 1000 times. For Rusich, the icon was of great value in a fire the first was taken out of the house, and for the Mongol it was simply a “painted board”. There was little gold in Russia, mainly silver was measured in pounds as not a particularly valuable equivalent of exchange. Furs were valued where it is cold, I do not think that sable was very valuable in Khorezm. Captives to the nomad are not particularly needed, so at least they need to take something for sale, not for the farm.
Since there were no thousandth herds of horses in Russia, there was nothing particularly valuable for a nomad.

Quote: K0

let’s then be more specific, what kind of land is "large of modern Russia"? The Golden Horde occupied much smaller territories.

And here the Golden Horde, it is only a small part of the empire of Genghisides according to official history. Let me remind you that the Mongols kind of conquered China, the empire stretched from inner Mongolia to the western borders of the former USSR. The territory of the northern part of Siberia was practically not populated and no one claimed it, so we can assume that these were the "undeveloped lands" of the Genghisids empire.

Quote: K0

to subjugate neighboring lands, receiving enormous wealth, first with looting, and then regularly with tribute - not enough?

Not enough for me. I already wrote above that for different peoples the same subject has far from equivalent value. For the West, the measure was precious metals, stones and furs, for the nomad weapons, horses and pastures. There were practically no horses or pastures in Russia.
Regarding Dani, a very controversial issue. if the tribute was voluntary and regular, why did the Horde periodically raid tribute "for 40 years and 3 years."

[Cxnumx]

Quote: E_V_N

The campaign of Svyatoslav fit into several months, passed through habitable places. The campaign of Genghis Khan-Batu for several years, on sparsely populated poor lands with very foggy end prospects. The enterprise looks like an adventure, especially when you consider that nearby was a fairly rich and developed China, capable of giving the Mongols all conceivable "buns".

those. you sent the Mongols straight from China to Russia, we must think in the north of Siberia. but the fact that on the territory of Kazakhstan there were tribes that could be subjugated or robbed (horses, sheep, skins and much more - this is also a commodity). and you have not heard about Khorezm, Samarkand, and so on.

Quote: E_V_N

Are you kidding me? Cities, of course, were not dragged, but they should have had ideas about the state system if they were going to seize land in order to receive tribute?
The Greeks were just going to expand their kingdoms, rather than banal "rob" neighbors

to receive a tribute from the state and expand the territory of your state are completely different things. one must think of the Huns Ancient Rome robbedto expand the territory of their state, like the Scythians of the Greeks. and the bribe they were paid is ... what is this? not kind of tribute? just not regular. no?

Quote: E_V_N

You know, different peoples have very different ideas about values. For a Mongol, the value of 1000 horses, for a Slav a field of cultivated, cleared from the heaps of the earth, 1000 horses he does not need for nothing, just 2x3 strong ones capable of dragging are enough. Like the Mongol, the earth to the bulb, even plowed 1000 times. For Rusich, the icon was of great value in a fire the first was taken out of the house, and for the Mongol it was simply a “painted board”. There was little gold in Russia, mainly silver was measured in pounds as not a particularly valuable equivalent of exchange. Furs were valued where it is cold, I do not think that sable was very valuable in Khorezm. Captives to the nomad are not particularly needed, so at least they need to take something for sale, not for the farm.
Since there were no thousandth herds of horses in Russia, there was nothing particularly valuable for a nomad.

what kind of wild nonsense ?! "He doesn’t need 1000 horses for nothing." 1000 horses can be used for meat and skins, exchanged for tools, obtained from the prince, if not boyars, then something else. darkness options! what nonsense are you fooling around with "no need for a gift" ?! furs were valued where it is cold ?! Yes it one of the main types of trade with warmer Europe and Byzantium!

Quote: E_V_N

And here the Golden Horde, it is only a small part of the empire of Genghisides according to official history. Let me remind you that the Mongols kind of conquered China, the empire stretched from inner Mongolia to the western borders of the former USSR. The territory of the northern part of Siberia was practically not populated and no one claimed it, so we can assume that these were the "undeveloped lands" of the Genghisids empire.

Russia was subordinated to the Horde with a headquarters in Sarai (Astrakhan Oblast). for what the hell ALL the Horde to go to Russia, if this was enough for the eyes ?!

Quote: E_V_N

Not enough for me. I already wrote above that for different peoples the same subject has far from equivalent value. For the West, the measure was precious metals, stones and furs, for the nomad weapons, horses and pastures. There were practically no horses or pastures in Russia.

there were no horses in Russia. it was all princes and warriors on horseback. and the horses had nothing to eat, yeah. the grass did not grow. it grew for cows, but not for horses. like grain. by "value": yes, it doesn’t care that a horse costs 10 in the north, and 1 in the south is a thing of EVERYWHERE value and such things are full! and in the west, too, horses were not valued? and maybe the grain, the meat didn’t cost anything there and lay under your feet? was there hunger there?

Quote: E_V_N

Regarding Dani, a very controversial issue. if the tribute was voluntary and regular, why did the Horde periodically raid tribute "for 40 years and 3 years."

Yes, because many refused to pay it, if I was not mistaken, the same Nevsky had to pacify such idiots himself, but it happened that there was no one to pacify, or they did not have time to do it themselves, or there were not enough forces.
Threat about why they had to go somewhere if they conquered China: why all the countries / peoples of the world are trying to expand their territories if they can / have enough strength ?! why rob and / or levy tribute and / or attach to themselves? why did the Romans, Greeks, Persians, Huns, Scythians, Germans, Saxons, Slavs - EVERYTHING ?!

[E_V_N]

The impression that a fifth grader writes who knows neither geography, nor history, nor the Russian language.

Quote: K0

those. you sent the Mongols straight from China to Russia, we must think in the north of Siberia. but the fact that on the territory of Kazakhstan there were tribes that could be subjugated or robbed (horses, sheep, skins and much more - this is also a commodity). and you have not heard about Khorezm, Samarkand, and so on.

I did not send the Mongols anywhere, in the first I was not born at that time, and in the second I never led the Mongols. But I must tell you that the north-west of China is still sparsely populated because ...... there are mountains of Tibet, Altai. Therefore, the nomads had to go around these mountains either from the north or from the south. What came of it, see for yourself on the map. Kazakh steppes, Samarkand and Khorezm did not smell there.

Quote: K0

"He doesn’t need 1000 horses for nothing." 1000 horses can be used for meat and skins, exchanged for tools, obtained from the prince, if not boyars, then something else. darkness options!

In Russian, “don’t be in vain” does not mean at all refusal of a free purchase, but means that a person will not make any significant efforts for the acquisition.

Quote: K0

Russia was subordinated to the Horde with a headquarters in Sarai (Astrakhan Oblast). for what the hell ALL the Horde to go to Russia,

What do you mean by horde? It seems that you are confused in terms.

Quote: K0

there were no horses in Russia. it was all princes and warriors on horseback. and the horses had nothing to eat, yeah. the grass did not grow. it grew for cows, but not for horses.

You confuse horses as a means of transportation and horses as the main product of economic activity. Do you feel the difference? Horses in Russia were kept as a means of transportation

Quote: K0

Yes, because many refused to pay it, if I was not mistaken, the same Nevsky had to pacify such idiots himself, but it happened that there was no one to pacify, or they did not have time to do it themselves, or there were not enough forces.

Your submission is cool, enslavement when "many refuse to pay." They made fun))

[Rurikovich]

Quote: K0

and for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGlucDtZdjY

Well looked. In the same way, a friend plays with various arguments to prove his point of view. And therefore, as lovers of officialdom like to say, it cannot be the last resort. Moreover, its “so what” speaks for itself
Until official stories sit with many doubters today, collect ALL data for that time with all versions, UNPAIRLY grind everything so that, again, UNPAIRLY bring out another version of that event - there will be further “wars” between believers and doubters like today
PS Such videos, on the same basis, I can declare nonsense, as many believers in the yoke can declare to them my videos, cited as evidence ...

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Rurikovich

Until official stories sit with many doubters today, collect ALL data for that time with all versions, UNPAIRLY grind everything so that, again, UNPAIRLY bring out another version of that event - there will be further “wars” between believers and doubters like today
PS Such videos, on the same basis, I can declare nonsense, as many believers in the yoke can declare to them my videos, cited as evidence ...

this has already been taken apart many times, especially the so-called “works” of never historians about history. only in response to criticism, the authors of these works do not give counter-arguments, but slip into "you are paid, I will not have business with you, etc.".
evidence: are you a historian? did you analyze evidence using a scientific method? maybe you wrote some work on this topic? Then I would like a link to the publication, and point to her review, from the scientific community. do you see the habit of disassembling evidence, links to sources, studying the sources themselves.
otherwise, you can turn on REN-TV and begin to actively believe in all that nonsense that falls out of the screen.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: K0

otherwise you can turn on REN-TV and start actively believing in all that nonsense,

But I wouldn’t record the entire REN TV in delirium. Foul channel - delivers the purest truth mixed with absolute delirium. The result is vulgarized truth with a strong smell of delirium. And not everyone has a filter in their heads.

[a housewife]

I thought I could see it alone! And not only REN TV. That's where the nonsense came from, in which almost everyone believed that hyperborea is the north of our country ?! The Greeks, they say, wrote - the north! So for the Greeks, the northernmost north was the Black Sea! The Caucasus is almost the end of the world for them. In the area of ​​Novorossiysk there lived a wind of Borey! And all that behind the ridge is Hyperborea! The wind in Novorossiysk, which blows from behind the ridge with hurricane force, is still called bora!

[E_V_N]

Quote: housewife

I thought I could see it alone! And not only REN TV. That's where the nonsense came from, in which almost everyone believed that hyperborea is the north of our country ?! The Greeks, they say, wrote - the north! So for the Greeks, the northernmost north was the Black Sea! The Caucasus is almost the end of the world for them. In the area of ​​Novorossiysk there lived a wind of Borey! And all that behind the ridge is Hyperborea! The wind in Novorossiysk, which blows from behind the ridge with hurricane force, is still called bora!

Well, what is the particular contradiction here? Hyperborea land beyond the Caucasian ridge relative to Greece. How far these lands were behind the ridge is not very clear

[a housewife]

The Greeks built their cities along the Black Sea coast to trade with the Scythians. They did not meddle further than these places and did not know anything. Here is the land beyond the Caucasian ridge - Hyperborea. Yes, theoretically it extends to infinity. But they could not know anything about the places near the Arctic Circle. And in some programs it sounds that the Greeks knew our northern cities, visited and wrote about them. So it turns out - was Hyperborea? It was. Cities near the Arctic Circle were? Were! Conclusion - the Greeks wrote about them. Not true! And all the stories on REN TV in the same vein! We take 1-2-3 real facts, we make a fantastic conclusion. So can I. Here I am a woman, I live in Adygea. Conclusion - I am an Adyghe. But no. I am Russian. Although there are quite real historical theories on this channel, but until they are proved, they are just theories. You can keep some facts in mind, ponder, but to believe everything in a row is stupid.

[E_V_N]

Quote: K0

are you a historian did you analyze evidence using a scientific method? maybe you wrote some work on this topic? then I would like a link to the publication, and most importantly to its review, from the scientific community. do you see the habit of disassembling evidence, links to sources, studying the sources themselves.

I remember genetics and cybernetics quite a “scientific community” declared pseudoscience, with reviews, works, scientific articles, sources and primary sources. And before the land was considered flat and three whales standing. And they burned Copernicus because he said that the earth revolves around the sun like an ignoramus and heretic. So what? Who ended up right, the scientific community or these "renegades" with their "unscientific theories"?

[Cxnumx]

Quote: E_V_N

I remember genetics and cybernetics quite a “scientific community” declared pseudoscience, with reviews, works, scientific articles, sources and primary sources. And before the land was considered flat and three whales standing. And they burned Copernicus because he said that the earth revolves around the sun like an ignoramus and heretic. So what? Who ended up right, the scientific community or these "renegades" with their "unscientific theories"?

well, let me exaggerate too: people were created by dinosaurs, which then flew away, carefully carefully destroying all their traces of their stay, and we find traces / bones of only crazy patients of their race abandoned here.
when your theories about the absence of Iga are confirmed by evidence that historians do not criticize, then we’ll look at the “renegades”.

[E_V_N]

Quote: K0

well, let me exaggerate too: people were created by dinosaurs, which then flew away, carefully carefully destroying all their traces of their stay, and we find traces / bones of only crazy patients of their race abandoned here.

That is, in your genetics and cybernetics, they did not declare pseudoscience and were not forbidden to study? Copernicus was not burned, and the earth was always considered round?
And about your dinosaurs, this is not exaggeration or even banter, so it is not clear what the written set of letters is for.
You give specific arguments, which I am not right, if you justify, I agree with you, do not doubt.

[Cxnumx]

Quote: E_V_N

That is, in your genetics and cybernetics, they did not declare pseudoscience and were not forbidden to study? Copernicus was not burned, and the earth was always considered round?

1) because they were told "this cannot be, because it cannot be," but they did not sort their base. now proved the existence of dark matter and black holes. mathematically, but proved. but you suggest to "believe", because evidence is not reliable.
2) these authors did not give any facts that could withstand criticism, the supporters of the "new theory" refuse lead a scientific dispute.
3) you propose to believe the new theory, not on the basis of confirmed arguments, but because you like it.
Threat I very much doubt that you will not agree with me, even if a college of academics speaks to you and clearly shows errors, lies, distortions in this "new theory" or what they called it there.

[KaPToC]

It is necessary to prove a theory, not its absence

[Egoza]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Official history always suffers from the peculiarity of conciliation with the opinion of those in power.

it’s so inconvenient to admit that their own princes fought among themselves all the time, it’s easier to get the yoke down. And in this case, I agree with A. Bushkov, who asks the same question to Jan: Why is the first big invasion and conquest marked in the winter, when the horses would have nothing to eat? And the winters were not an example of the present? There were no such roads as they are now, how did they make their way? Given the fact that each warrior had to have two more horses - one rested, which could be transferred in case of an unexpected battle, the second - where luggage was transported - spare weapons, clothes, etc. Even in the summer, and that - it turns out that 100 thousand Mongols how many horses pulled with them? And while the front ones, for example, grazed, then the "end" would not have gotten anything - they had eaten them! So it turns out that a writer-historian-scientist sits in his office and writes ..... fairy tales to our joy. And to admit that their own princes ravaged the land .... well, so, "partially"

[Rurikovich]

Right now, adherents of school books will fly over and will scream - "heresy" Because academics cannot lie by definition, and genetics is a false science

[Odysseus]

Quote: Rurikovich

Right now, adherents of school books will fly over and will scream - "heresy"

And they will be absolutely right. This is heresy, showing how severe the crisis in Russia is.
And this is a very harmful heresy. “Digging in the genes” is especially destructive for Russia created as a cultural community of different ethnic groups.

[Humpty]

Karamzin seemed to give his wish out for reality with an eye on his last name. The writer L.N. Gumilev, on the contrary, was looking for a kind of symbiosis, close ties between Russians and steppes, which could not be found by any serious studies.

[Cxnumx]

for all fans of delirium about the absence of the Tatar-Mongol invasion of Russia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGlucDtZdjY
Attention! lovers of Fomenko and Nosovsky do not watch - it breaks the illusions.

[Rurikovich]

Quote: K0

Attention! lovers of Fomenko and Nosovsky do not watch - it breaks the illusions.

Kindergarten same "authority" as many academics
See above my comment on 07.05

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Rurikovich

Kindergarten is the same "authority" as many academics
See above my comment on 07.05

replied. and here I’ll also answer: turn on REN-TV and begin to actively believe, including about aliens in the Kremlin and the race of cannibals.

[Avenich]

"for all fans of delirium about the absence of the Tatar-Mongol invasion of Russia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGlucDtZdjY"

After the phrase "The list of these mistakes can be continued ..." did not look.

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Avenich

After the phrase "The list of these mistakes can be continued ..." did not look.

yeah, representatives of the new theories respond to criticism about the same: I don’t like it, so all your evidence doesn’t count

[Avenich]

Your phrase is excellent proof that this opponent of criticism of traditional history (with your permission I will call it that), drunk, by the way, did not go far from his opponents. I hope that the ending of this video did not get to the phrases, tipO: "And you really are who you are." But the most annoying thing, already in our dialogue with you that has just begun, you incline him to a form of communication similar to that in the video. Sorry, but I pass.

[Cxnumx]

very nice, such a polite criticism ... sorry no argument.

Quote: Avenich

I hope that the ending of this video did not get to the phrases, tipO: "And you really are who you are."

if you looked, you would know, but why? he is a historian of the "system."

Quote: Avenich

But the most annoying thing, already in our dialogue that has just begun with you, you incline him to a form of communication similar to that in the video.

why you didn’t like the form of video communication with the listing of errors / lies and their refutation is a question. are you prone to docs of your innocence by scientific activity? sumptuously! (without sarcasm). acquaint with the works + their reviews?

Quote: Avenich

Sorry, but I pass.

good.

[E_V_N]

Quote: K0

representatives of new theories respond to criticism about the same:

If you replace the word "do not like" with "contrary to logic" then you get quite a normal argument.

[CONTROL]

Quote: K0

Attention! lovers of Fomenko and Nosovsky do not watch - it breaks the illusions.

Fomenko / Nosovsky - it’s “breakers! First - shocking breaking - giving out sincerely desired facts, into“ development of the process ”- primitive lies ...

[Spnsr]

Quote: K0

for all fans of delirium about the absence of the Tatar-Mongol invasion of Russia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGlucDtZdjY
Attention! lovers of Fomenko and Nosovsky do not watch - it breaks the illusions.

Something like blah blah blah!
You can also say to this that at first they wrote a text, then people were called under it! So that no one would be offended appointed the most harmless!

[Odysseus]

There are a number of fundamental problems here. To write about everything is just too lazy, so it's literally a couple.
1) “Company” is a profit-oriented commercial organization, it cannot be a priori oriented to the truth. So when they write “the general director of the company objectively said something,” this is, initially, a fraud.
2) Even if you forget about it, the genes are biology, and the nation, people, etc. this is a cultural phenomenon. That is, a fundamental mistake is made in the article, a mixture of nature and culture. This leads to the appearance of enchanting pearls such as “If we talk about the Russian people, he is Russian precisely on a national basis.” Here, representatives of the “company” demonstrate that they, in principle, do not understand what an ethnic group, people, nation are and how they differ from each other.

[Mobik]

Scratch Russian and you will not find a Tatar

Well, in relation to the noble birth, this rule worked. And in general, what gentlemen mean by the word yoke. Vassalism relations between a large empire and small princes? So from such relationships, only children will be born from the nobility.

[Gardamir]

gentlemen mean by the word yoke

I quote my opinion expressed on another resource.

We surmise that if the current authorities hold out in Russia, then our descendants will think that Stalin’s guardsmen attacked the peaceful German Volga republics. And only the valiant guards of America saved the nations from destruction.
History is written and rewritten. Take the events of a hundred years ago. Everyone who could only put their hands to writing. Variants of history for every taste.
The events of 1812 are interesting. Spain fought with Venezuela, England with America, France and Austria declared war on Russia. And all this was at one time.
But now the times are older. Spiritual-chivalrous ORDENS moved east, the Mongol-Tatar Horde went west. All this was about the same time. At least the period from 1232 to 1240 ORDEN and Horde were in Russia. Speaking of dates. Who knows how many times calendars have been changed?
Well, what else can I add? The word Igo was invented by the Poles at the end of the 15th century. The spelling (jugo) is pronounced as south, and from Latin it is translated as high.
So history as a science is a horizon, the farther you move, the more you fantasize.

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Gardamir

Spiritual-chivalrous ORDENS moved east, the Mongol-Tatar Horde went west. All this was about the same time. At least the period from 1232 to 1240 ORDEN and Horde were in Russia. Speaking of dates. Who knows how many times calendars have been changed?

you say so, as if two states cannot simultaneously invade a country with a large territory, even by those standards, not to mention individual detachments. in 2 year, two different states can easily go hiking in the same cities (winter / summer). Yes, and the direction you have is not exactly indicated: the order was in the west and moved to the Novgorod lands - northeast. horde in the southeast. plus you write as if some were from the west, while others from the east were supposed to move right along a flat front across all lands to meet each other.

[Gardamir]

you say that

I just assumed, for they are lying about the events of 30 years ago. And about what happened about 800 years ago, you can compose anything. The princely chroniclers wrote each their own, the priests who came added their own, the Romanovs diluted their own, the Soviet power added its own heroes. And now we argue here.

[parusnik]

We uphold the purity of the Aryan ... eeeee of the Russian nation ... If it’s not "clean", then what .. To rush into the Auschwitz stove or to line up in the Babi Yar ...

[bandabas]

Why defend. We have -25 now. And tomorrow, maybe -5 or -30. No one whimpers. Nobody has canceled work and school. Not the middle lane.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: parusnik

.In the oven of Auschwitz rush

And I would have thrown some .... For example, the leadership of Moscow’s echo, the leadership was dismissed with Chubais at the head ...

[Gardamir]

As recent studies by geneticists have shown, no Soviet Union. There is no such happlogroup showing "Soviet" or "scoop".
From this we can conclude that Nicholas II signed the abdication in the presence of Rodzianko and Yeltsin. And there was no mythical Lenin, it was Yeltsin standing on the tank. And Hitler was defeated by the Putin falcons, helping the coalition bomb the Rommel corps in the sand.

[Uncle lee]

Oooochen informative !!! And who built the pyramids? And painted Nazca?
In your interpretation ...

[Cetron]

Ancient Ukrainians - the pyramids are weathered heaps, and in Nazca their portraits.

[Gardamir]

In your interpretation

The pyramids were built by Napoleon's engineers. Even at the end of construction, he said: "Millennium soldiers look from the heights of these pyramids." And he went to win. We wouldn’t have built the pyramids, hadn’t defeated anyone, I just had to go to Russia in vain, well, to the capital of St. Petersburg, I would have taken it and drank the Dutch beer, since there wasn’t it to Muscovy, and there the evil grandfather Karachun froze all the troops .
And Nazca is even easier it is the Slavic god Grandfather and Baba (for grandfather and woman, this is not the same as the old man with the old woman). So Grandfather and Baba scraped together Kolobok, and incidentally, for the sake of fun for Grandfather, he painted all kinds of basky paintings. Since then they have been calling where Nazca scraped.

[CONTROL]

In general, historical "epics" about large-scale conquests, hundreds of thousands of troops and millions of distant "across five seas" campaigns cause strong doubts and suspicions! It seems like fanfiction and myth-making ...
Even today, to concentrate units of the army in the k.-l. area, to prepare them for hostilities, to supply and provide with everything necessary, etc., etc. - Yes, finally, just give a salary to the mercenaries! ...problem?
And here - swords and spears, bows and arrowheads, harnessing horses, and just utensils and knives for cooking ... - for an army of this size? Did someone then have such a well-developed mining, metallurgy, metalworking industry? medicine, veterinary medicine? ... further - everywhere ....!
------------------------------------
Our ancestors were very rational guys! Isn’t it easier to send a reconnaissance and diplomatic representative squad with brave young guys and clever cunning merchants, money / gifts / samples of goods ... and so on! Talk with the local authorities ... traders, military ... artisans and artisans ... Yes - if there are young brave guys "in military uniforms" - with young women, finally! which are in the poor families of merchants, artisans, military and so on. - "on delivery" are always available! The right path to diplomacy is through women! Well, and invite to yourself - girls "on marriageable days" are always available to everyone! T called. "incest" - was welcomed by all nations - like updating the gene pool ... With subsequent good neighborly relations ... well, not without "nuances"!
... Anyone - even a short-sighted person - will agree that such "diplomacy" is more profitable than the infinite and costly massacre of the 100000th army!

[Mobik]

Yeah, as historical practice shows, stupid guys with swords are necessary in the initial stages of the formation of any power. And already when the whole enlightened world is sent, then it will be possible to breed "diplomacy". Intellectuals and schemers follow the legions.

[vladimirvn]

"I am Russian. I am the same Colorado"

I am Russian. I’m the same Colorado.
Sovdepovsky sucks, rashist and cotton wool.
I'm the one who loves vodka and Parade,
I am the offspring of the victorious soldier.

I am the most natural Muscovite,
brought up on "mom washed the frame."
I'm the one who pity Donetsk children
who despise the States and Obama.

Do not rejoice. We are not extinct.
There are many of us - not used to eating from the belly.
Humanity has instilled in us life.
in the chambers of a dying Union.

We survived, of course, not all.
But the survivors became stronger than steel.
We - Russians - Russified three times,
rebelled from the dust of your conscience ...

For us, the sacred is Motherland and mother,
the world is afraid of us because it knows:
Who "can’t understand Russia wisely",
to which she habitually explains

what is in the world, beside the grub,
decency, dignity, and conscience.
And ours, Russian "I’m coming to you" -
stupid, alas, bad news for you.

Do not touch Russia, gentlemen.
Remember: we are beaten, and we are husbands.
Hear us. And if not, then
death comes for a new crop ...

It’s not worth checking us for lice
American, you are not the messiah.
Think brother: not Syria, RUSSIA.
Think and don’t touch our mother.

Vladimir Kobets.

[CONTROL]

Quote: vladimirvn

"I am Russian. I am the same Colorado."

It also happens:
Remember brother how they crushed the elven scum,
How their evil hordes fled west.
We knocked the gondor mud on the shelves.
To shine brighter white stone Mordor.
And fearlessness setting an example for everyone
Under the harsh chorale of a jet drone
In the corks of their swift chimeras
Our Red Star flew Nazguls.
Gandalf Jugend did not escape from orc swords.
Although the enemies asked for mercy, dying.
Not counting losses, not closing eyes,
They walked steel cohorts of Uruk-hai fighters
In the plains of Rohan, through Moria hell.
The last elven destroyer was sunk
On the Anduin River. Gloomy Osgiliath
Occupied by the Marines of the Goblin Division.
Is it possible to take it and forget it?
Elephant slain tubular trunk,
Or the way in Minas Tirith Square
We danced to the accordion about .... th hobbit?
They made a fire from chopped ents
There were doors and windows wide open
And the gnome marauder prayed and repented,
And the elves groaned: - Oh, das ist fiction!
So the war was over the bloody stage.
We won and the matter was left to the small:
Sorcerers and the criminal elven general staff
An impartial Mordorsky tribunal judge.
And our sentence was quite humane:
To Kolyma. Only Gandalf and Aragorn
Condemned on the fair just Mordor
Mostly for participating in p! And: d-ors? Com ​​p? O-r_no.
But trouble happened, our teacher and leader,
Our Secretary General Sauronych once drunk
P ... rushed into the volcano and burned for a penny,
And omnipotence, the ring dissolved in the volcano.
And the time has come for doubt and confusion.
Shameful wolves got around, got stronger.
Then I’ve laid an unprincipled Talmud
Silmaril Zionist by the name of Tolkien.
The historical truth has not passed since then.
We lost ridges, plateaus and shelves.
And it turned out that the invincible Mordor
They were captured by the Rohans, Jews and elves.
It's all over. Do not wish the enemy.
We reconciled, settled in the deaf backyards.
In the courtyard on melted ss ... m snow
The hobbit writes in words: “You are no longer orcs!”
Well, we read the excitement of the Lord of the Rings,
Learned a lie from cover to cover.
It is no coincidence that in Mordor our pi ... c.
Because we are no longer orcs!
Mikhail Elizarov, Orc Song

[Dimmih]

Quote: Gardamir

Russians! Because we have one homeland - Russia!

The Russians have the homeland of Russia, and Russia has the dear Russians.

My homeland is the USSR, and Russia has remained somewhere for centuries.

[Gardamir]

My homeland is the USSR, and Russia has remained somewhere for centuries.

I agree to this option.

[Dimmih]

Quote: Humpty

Karamzin seemed to give his wish out for reality with an eye on his last name. The writer L.N. Gumilev, on the contrary, was looking for a kind of symbiosis, close ties between Russians and steppes, which could not be found by any serious studies.

You, sir, look at the Turkic-speaking people, the Tatars of Tatarstan, and then look at the modern ones, for example, the Yakuts, Altaians or Kumandins. Do you see the difference? So the Altai Turks are an example of the appearance that the Tatars had before moving to the territory of Tatarstan. You yourself will guess why they have changed so much, or will you put forward the theory that the ancestors of the Tatars were blue-eyed Slavic-Aryans who spoke Turkic?

[CONTROL]

Quote: Dimmih

You, sir, look at the Turkic-speaking people, the Tatars of Tatarstan, and then look at the modern ones, for example, the Yakuts, Altaians or Kumandins. Do you see the difference?

Tatars of Tatarstan did not stand close to the Yakuts, Altai and others! They are the "Bulgars", a conglomerate of the remnants of the Assyrian-Babylonian tribes, who were "driven" throughout Europe by all kinds of conquerors and their own leaders. There are Italian and Latinos mixed with blood, and there are Khazars and Arabs, not to mention Tajik-Turkmen ...; and from Asian - least of all! Settled in the Slavic lands - and red and brown-haired appeared ...
--------------------------
and in general - "Tatar" - not the self-name of the people, but the designation of territorial origin; is tartar hell? - in general, the resettlement is unimaginably far ... even farther than to the village where the annual auction and festivities in honor of Veles ... or Yarila? ... or Perun, Khorsa ... Svarog ....?

[E_V_N]

Quote: CONTROL

a conglomerate of the remnants of the Assyrian-Babylonian tribes, who were “driven” throughout Europe by all kinds of conquerors and their own leaders.

I agree with you, only with the "Assyrian-Babylonian tribes" you obviously turned down. Where is Babylon and Assyria and where is the middle course of the Volga. Firstly, it’s never once Europe, and secondly, they would hardly have reached this far north as a “tribe”, on the Volga the climate is different and the food and principles of housekeeping. In fact, these are more likely the remains of Bulgaria, which itself is the result of a symbiosis of border Slavs and steppes. This is the symbiosis that Gumilev so stubbornly sought.

[CONTROL]

Quote: E_V_N

[I agree with you, only with the "Assyrian-Babylonian tribes" you obviously turned down.

Is there data - or speculation? - that these tribes after the conquest of Egypt lived there, annexed all sorts of oneself ... picked up ... wandered around Europe, with the Romans and Dacians there (there are traces ...) of the then Hungarians ..., Germanic tribes ... here they are It was the Germans who flooded to the east, but didn’t dare to go after it ... here they settled: it seems that there were also related Turkic-speaking tribes nearby, and the Slavic neighbors are not very evil ... the peoples' paths are inscrutable! In any case, the Tatars genotype is much more European-South European than the Anglo-Saxons say ...
... though - for some reason I don’t trust these "haplogroups" too much ... It is doubtful!

[venaya]

Quote: Dimmih

or put forward the theory that the ancestors of the Tatars were blue-eyed Russo-Slavic-Aryans who spoke in Turkic?

I note that the Cossacks usually spoke, depending on their places of residence, in two distantly related languages, that is, in dialects of native Russian and in countless dialects of the languages ​​of the Turkic language group. The use of the language of a particular language group in no way can talk about the ethnic origin of this group of people. I hope that even with this you will agree.

[Humpty]

Quote: Dimmih

look at the Turkic-speaking people, the Tatars of Tatarstan

To begin with, the steppe towns did not build. The present Tatars (Bulgars as a girl) reflected the first invasion of the "Mongols", a crushing defeat for the "Mongols". I find it difficult to say who these “Mongols” are, but I am not a supporter of the bold version that these are some taiga-steppe Slavic-Arians. For example, the Mughals - the Muslims of the Taj Mahal drank away in Agra. And the Mongols who attacked everyone before the Mughals and cooked people, all farted and didn’t build anything, they didn’t adopt anything from the conquered. And by the way, why did they have to run back from the conquered Adriatic, home to the hungry steppe and taiga?
Some Asians of different tribes attacked all whom they could kill and plunder.
With regards to the Turks, more correctly - the Turkic-speaking peoples. They belong to different races, it so happened and there is nothing “bad” or “good-great,” such an ethnogenesis. If you pay attention to the fact that the study of geneticists speaks about the ethnogenesis of the Turks, you can gasp. For example, one nation is based on Eastern Europeans, but with a large addition of Chinese, then another is based on the Mongols, with a significant share of Semites. I do not think this is the ultimate truth.
Everything is confusing.

[Seraphimamur]

Genetics is the selling girl of imperialism! We need to believe the story that the Germans wrote to us under Catherine. Mongolo and the Tatar yoke were. And the fact that there is no Mongolian blood in the blood of Russians is from the abstinence of the Mongol warriors for 300 years. And you also need to believe in American propaganda and Hollywood crafts on historical topics.

[Vsevolod]

One would think that Solovyov and Klyuchevsky, being prominent sociologists of their time, wrote something "correlated with written sources that came before him and with the results of the natural scientific research of our days."

[Avenich]

Quote: K0

why you didn’t like the form of video communication with the listing of errors / lies and their refutation is a question. are you prone to docs of your innocence by scientific activity? sumptuously! (without sarcasm). acquaint with the works + their reviews?

Dear, you don’t understand. Arguments like "... maps were drawn by drunken cartographers from the words of drunken captains ..", "... or what he painted on this icon (!?), It's his problems ..." this, of course, is "magnificent" (with sarcasm) and very scientific. And forgive me, how can I study these “drunk cards”, if only in the opinion of the author of the video, if they appear in his plot in less than a second for each. I repeat, fire my friend, but apart from the painfully wounded ego of the author, I did not observe anything in this material.

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Avenich

I repeat, fire my friend, but apart from the painfully wounded ego of the author, I did not observe anything in this material.

don't like this one? here are the others
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXpB6se9QbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3A_yaw--0w

[axenm]

Scratch the Tatar - you will find a Russian ..

[reg]

Quote: Cyril Bragin

Scratch Russian and you will not find a Tatar

Not Tatar, but Tartarin. If without this error, then the statement is absolutely true. Moscow Tartars (residents of Moscow Tartaria) were later called Muscovites. Then the Great Russians. Then, after the overthrow of the autocracy 100 years ago, by the Russians.
But if you continue to scrub, then under tartarin you will find a Rusich. And if even deeper, then the Slav.

[Dimmih]

Quote: venaya

Quote: Varyag_0711

Or do you think that and Siberia and the Urals were in ancient times Rus?

Take a closer look: If 25 thousand years ago, just from present-day Siberia, they came to the Hindustan peninsula, with ancient Russian genetics and with the oldest form of the ancient Russian language, then what can it be said that even in those days Russia itself was not something other than all of today's Eurasia (Asia, the old fashioned way)? Try to refute this statement, because it is not based on nothing and based on the latest and most modern research, and not on the glitches of illiterate medieval pseudo-historians with an exclusively religious education.

Dear Venia from Venland, a relative of the Russian Etruscans and plowmen on mammoths, again launched a rocket to the masses with disputes of twilight consciousness)))))

[venaya]

Quote: Dimmih

..from Venland, a cousin of the Russian Etruscans and plowmen ..

Enviously, huh? So to speak, the manifestation of a hidden inferiority complex, or something else. Maybe all the same we will inform the distinguished assembly of a special hatred of the entire Russian people. Why hide it? And anyway - when are you going to "Rusnyu" cut once again in the open?
PS: Ancient "Venland" - now called Finland, maybe heard.

[Nahum]

Quote: Varyag_0711

kueva cloud of nationalities,

No, - "tuyeva khucha!"))) Somewhere I read that the residents of Pakistan are very close to the Russians by their genotype. There is such a people there - Balochi, with blond hair and blue eyes.

[Humpty]

Quote: Naum

Somewhere I read that, by their genotype, the inhabitants of Pakistan are very close to Russians. There is such a people there - Balochi, with blond hair and blue eyes

People from Tajikistan to southern Pakistan meet this appearance. I’ve seen it many times.
Frightened Chinese, where "the Russian foot didn’t set foot" I am mistaken for a Pakistani, especially when I wear a fancy dress of a Pakistani, an Afghan, they are all dressed in a carbon copy! And I don’t shave my beard so that my face burns less in the sun.

[viktorch]

the main message of the article — we didn’t really find anything, what we found — didn’t understand where to stick our results, we don’t know, we will be testing with an owl and a globe.

[Dimmih]

Quote: CONTROL

Quote: Dimmih

You, sir, look at the Turkic-speaking people, the Tatars of Tatarstan, and then look at the modern ones, for example, the Yakuts, Altaians or Kumandins. Do you see the difference?

Tatars of Tatarstan did not stand close to the Yakuts, Altai and others! They are the "Bulgars", a conglomerate of the remnants of the Assyrian-Babylonian tribes, who were "driven" throughout Europe by all kinds of conquerors and their own leaders. There are Italian and Latinos mixed with blood, and there are Khazars and Arabs, not to mention Tajik-Turkmen ...; and from Asian - least of all! Settled in the Slavic lands - and red and brown-haired appeared ...
--------------------------
and in general - "Tatar" - not the self-name of the people, but the designation of territorial origin; is tartar hell? - in general, the resettlement is unimaginably far ... even farther than to the village where the annual auction and festivities in honor of Veles ... or Yarila? ... or Perun, Khorsa ... Svarog ....?

Answering your undoubtedly scientific opinion, I can ask, have you tried to tell the Tatars in Kazan? As for your statement about Assyro-Babylonia and so on ..... Here is a monument on the banks of the Katun River in Altai, erected by the government of Tatarstan with the following text: “We are Türks and from here I went Turkic land”. I suggest you Tatars on the forums to charge that they are from Latinos from Tartarus. But it’s better to do it personally .... Tatars will be more pleasant.

[Humpty]

Quote: Dimmih

we have a monument in Altai, erected by the government of Tatarstan with the following text: "We are Türks and from here I went Turkic land."

With the same success, they could have asked the Chinese for permission and placed on a dune in Taklamakan. But in Altai, for a pleasant appearance and permission, you don’t need to ask for a long time.
Finger in .. the sky is called. Purely pan-Turkic action, Turkic-preoccupied among other things, Severodvinsk, in addition, is considered primordially Turkic and Arkhangelsk, too, declare without hesitation.

[CONTROL]

Quote: Dimmih

Answering your undoubtedly scientific opinion, I can ask, have you tried to tell the Tatars in Kazan?

I’m here - in it, in the Tatars - I have been living my whole life!

Here stands a monument on the banks of the Katun in Altai, erected by the government of Tatarstan with the following text: "We are Türks and from here I went the Türkic land."

Oh, this is our - Tatar - government! ...
It is better to go to Kazan University on this occasion, to talk with historians and ethnographers (there are friends among them, some are recognized by world scientific communities ...); it’s easy to go to the university library! or to the online library ...
And the so-called. "Türks" - Iranians-Turans-Afghans-Kurds-Turks-and others ... up to some Syrian tribes and Copts (yeah, Türks-First Christians, BEFORE Euro-Christianity!) - where did they come from?
If only Firdousi "Shah Name" read ... purely for educational program! the truth is a very thick book (if an unadapted edition ...), there is a risk of "no power" ...
------------------------------
In general - an empty, non-discussion conversation! The government of the Republic of Tatarstan passion as you want "alternatively" to have Muslim allies in the form of neighboring Turkey, even Shaimiev flirted ... nude-nude! Therefore, they can celebrate the millennium of Kazan ... and erect monuments ...
------------------------------
but in Kazan there is a monument (board) to the Venetian guards ... Are they off there? And - served as the personal guard of the khans! Married "on the spot", left offspring ...
Yes, and purely outwardly - to compare Bashkir and Tatar: the first is a Siberian Asian, the second is of a Mediterranean appearance ...

[Nikolaevich I]

There is a tricky position! Previously, they looked at the "Mongol yoke" point blank and saw through it! And now, for some reason, they sharply turned to the "yoke" with ... short shorts and, "naturally", stopped seeing him! Well, indeed they say (turning ........... "back" to the "yoke"): we do not see the "yoke", and therefore it does not exist and was not! And for what reason? Who decided to please? Who lick ........? Maybe due to the fact that the local "Honduras" ... (I mean ... Tatarstan!) Became very disturbed? But did he (Tatarstan!) Need this? Not sure! But, if you decide to cancel the "Tatar-Mongol yoke", then this is someone / for some reason "nuno"? To whom to lick ... to whom "nuno" ..... ich verstehe nicht! Well, they didn’t find an “autograph” carved on the “highest” rock ... carved on the “highest” oak: Genghis Khan was here .... and now what? The yoke wasn’t blame? Are there also indirect “autographs” of autographs? evidence ... for example, the state of the arts. crafts (like ... the state of the then "technology"). So !!! Archaeological finds (excavations) show: the quality of crafts in Russia fell sharply in that historical period, which is attributed to the "Mongol yoke "! Due to the Mongol invasion, many skilled craftsmen were taken to" full "... As a result: the" surge "is high the quality of crafts in the Golden Horde; and the decline in the quality of crafts in Russia! This "affected" not only "ironwork", jewelry, weaving, embroidery, etc., but also architecture. Analysis of temples built in the "pre-Mongol" period and the "Mongolian" "discovers a significant difference in the quality of construction. Temples built in the" pre-Mongolian "period-lepota (!) ... built in the" Mongolian ... "- hack work! It was during the" Mongolian "period that the growth of cities stopped, the references to it fell out for a long time dozens of cities, mention of 15 cities, in general, Kanu and in "the abyss"! The development of new arable lands has been reduced. This is reflected in archaeological documents ... look and find! And then you will not need the false conclusions of the "lousy prohvesorov"!

[Humpty]

Eurasianism in one word. By the way, the word was introduced by a writer Gumilyov, nowadays considered by many as an outstanding historian, but earlier he was popular only among evening circles of exalted intelligentsia.

[Dimmih]

Quote: venaya

Quote: Dimmih

or put forward the theory that the ancestors of the Tatars were blue-eyed Russo-Slavic-Aryans who spoke in Turkic?

I note that the Cossacks usually spoke, depending on their places of residence, in two distantly related languages, that is, in dialects of native Russian and in countless dialects of the languages ​​of the Turkic language group. The use of the language of a particular language group in no way can talk about the ethnic origin of this group of people. I hope that even with this you will agree.

I note to you in response that linguists have never heard of the existence of a "native Russian language." And no one ever saw the inscriptions on it. And I wrote that the original, primordial, racial type of Tatar, Mongoloidity has changed as a result of centuries of marriage with the ladies of the Caucasian type, and therefore modern Tatars are not very similar to modern Altaians, Yakuts, etc.

[venaya]

Quote: Dimmih

.. linguists have never heard of the existence of a "native Russian language." And no one ever saw the inscriptions on it. ..

Try to contact specialists at Moscow State University, some of them have “heard”, and what is interesting is that in the academic laboratory of the oldest forms of writing, quite a lot of Russian-language inscriptions have already been read, determined by time over many tens of thousands of years. Perhaps you have not interviewed all specialists even in our country on this issue. Be more attentive, not everyone knows everything, but like me, I think everything to know somewhere is simply not realistic.

[Dimmih]

Quote: parusnik

We uphold the purity of the Aryan ... eeeee of the Russian nation ... If it’s not "clean", then what .. To rush into the Auschwitz stove or to line up in the Babi Yar ...

From ignorance, these arias breed, from dirt and dampness in the porches, they are read by wild nonsense, they will be assured of them in the Lord and do not notice that other arias in the porches have met a little need, but there’s nobody to clean up!

[CONTROL]

Quote: Dimmih

Quote: parusnik

We uphold the purity of the Aryan ... eeeee of the Russian nation ... If it’s not "clean", then what .. To rush into the Auschwitz stove or to line up in the Babi Yar ...

From ignorance, these arias breed, from dirt and dampness in the porches, they are read by wild nonsense, they will be assured of them in the Lord and do not notice that other arias in the porches have met a little need, but there’s nobody to clean up!

... from zass .... ca hear!
And let me be banned for the umpteenth time, but I won’t hand over my unclean entrance !!!

[E_V_N]

Oh,   and you count how many years they moved west.
and most relish
So they moved or rode rode? If they moved, that they were driven out of their homes, if the army was “invincible”. If you rode rode, why so far, there was no closer booty? Or, according to your opinion, Genghis woke up in the morning and said, "it’s boring, but I’ll give up on going to the West, for 10 years I’ve walked that way." Did he collapse with a horse’s head and become very hurt?

Quote: K0

it means that the Vikings could sail in the seas where you couldn’t see them for several days on the horizon! and the Mongols were so dumb that they couldn’t even ask the neighbors: "who lives farther from you? what do they have?" and they were horrified how terrible it was to suddenly believe the answers, and go down the earth further.

I think the Vikings could navigate the stars, but preferred to swim in coastal waters. Just because of nothing to do, "swim in the sea a couple of days," no one did. There are all kinds of cataclysms in the sea, it could be attributed to the current, the wind, many died, but there were those who returned by the stars, that is how they discovered new lands. Do you remember the story of Columbus, did he swim to discover America? No, he was looking for another way to India, so as not to bend around Africa, but he did not know that the earth is so big and the way to the west is much longer than rounding Africa. Therefore, the Indians in America were so called, they thought that they got to India.
Well, the Mongols would ask their "neighbors" and who is there west and get an answer there, what kind of Selagai roams with his kind, and even further Sebuhei with his kind and what would it give them? Before Russia, 8 versts, the neighbors did not look so far.

[Cxnumx]

I'm tired of proving already. please read, only please do not turn off the video when you don’t like something (for example, if you suddenly call someone an idiot, because you can’t call him anything else)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3A_yaw--0w&t
= 297s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxkMpSF5wrI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXpB6se9QbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzprgr6EBH8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU-AJr_ogdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu4CoXze6GY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-TyA_YYW4

[Avenich]

Quote: K0

don't like this one? here are the others
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXpB6se9QbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3A_yaw--0w

Thanks for the links. Compared to the speaker above, the videos presented in these videos are still more adequate, and his version is of some interest. Moreover, we look at the 28th minute and ... from the words of a respected comrade: "Tatar-Mongol yoke WASN’T (!!!), and moreover, everything fits very nicely into the research data from the aforementioned article.
Before giving a link to the video material, I ask him, dear, to look.

[mr.fafes]

Scrape the Russian, and you will not find a Tatar! Scratch the Tatar, and you will find a Russian!

[andrej-shironov]

Is it that important? The main thing is that as a result we have a unique superethnos! Everything else is from the evil one.

[Lena Petrova]

Quote from Uncle Lee

So there was no Tatar-Mongol yoke, otherwise there would be a trace ....

It depends on what you mean by yoke ?! Cohabitation of nomads and Slavs? It is unlikely that this could be. And if the payment of the annual tax (tax) was paid, then there could not have been any significant confusion in principle.

[Alexey-74]

Q.E.D. In general, on a national basis, Russians are one of the “purest” nations, previously the Japanese conducted research with the Americans and I don’t remember anyone else, and they also confirmed this. For me personally, it’s more interesting - where did the Russian land come from, where did Russia come from, and how did the Russians settle.

[Dimmih]

And what is a pure nation? Or not the purest? Purely Russian, if they still remained, it is somewhere in the region of the North (Arkhangelsk, etc.), and the Old Believers are bearded. And not purely Russian than worse than Russian? It is necessary to leave these nonsense to the ancient Ukrainians once and for all. Purity of blood, white race, arias. Somewhere I met this ... AAAA, so in WWII one of my Russian grandfathers chopped such with a horse with a sword, and the second grandfather (Volga German) crushed a tank ...

[Dimmih]

Quote: venaya

Quote: Dimmih

..from Venland, a cousin of the Russian Etruscans and plowmen ..

Enviously, huh? So to speak, the manifestation of a hidden inferiority complex, or something else. Maybe all the same we will inform the distinguished assembly of a special hatred of the entire Russian people. Why hide it? And anyway - when are you going to "Rusnyu" cut once again in the open?
PS: Ancient "Venland" - now called Finland, maybe heard.

Venia, the more I read you in different branches, the more I think about whether you are mentally ill or just a troll of the 100500 level, you cannot explain the game flows generated by you in anything else. I will answer in order, about the massacre of Rusnya, I would ask the moderator to cheer you up approximately so that it would be inconvenient to use such phrases here. Secondly, about your wild views on the history of Finland, I have already talked with you in the comments. Give you freedom, obsessed with your diagnosis, so you from under the stick will begin to drive everyone in the Slavic-Ruso-Arias. Already the Tatars were added here, and the Mongols are denied. Irrigate yourself with plenty of cold water, it will help.

[Dimmih]

Quote: CONTROL

Quote: Dimmih

Answering your undoubtedly scientific opinion, I can ask, have you tried to tell the Tatars in Kazan?

I’m here - in it, in the Tatars - I have been living my whole life!

Here stands a monument on the banks of the Katun in Altai, erected by the government of Tatarstan with the following text: "We are Türks and from here I went the Türkic land."

Oh, this is our - Tatar - government! ...
It is better to go to Kazan University on this occasion, to talk with historians and ethnographers (there are friends among them, some are recognized by world scientific communities ...); it’s easy to go to the university library! or to the online library ...
And the so-called. "Türks" - Iranians-Turans-Afghans-Kurds-Turks-and others ... up to some Syrian tribes and Copts (yeah, Türks-First Christians, BEFORE Euro-Christianity!) - where did they come from?
If only Firdousi "Shah Name" read ... purely for educational program! the truth is a very thick book (if an unadapted edition ...), there is a risk of "no power" ...
------------------------------
In general - an empty, non-discussion conversation! The government of the Republic of Tatarstan passion as you want "alternatively" to have Muslim allies in the form of neighboring Turkey, even Shaimiev flirted ... nude-nude! Therefore, they can celebrate the millennium of Kazan ... and erect monuments ...
------------------------------
but in Kazan there is a monument (board) to the Venetian guards ... Are they off there? And - served as the personal guard of the khans! Married "on the spot", left offspring ...
Yes, and purely outwardly - to compare Bashkir and Tatar: the first is a Siberian Asian, the second is of a Mediterranean appearance ...

I agree with you on the complexity of the ethnogenesis of Turks, I received a university historical education at one time, and no one denies this, which is pretty mixed. But not harder than other nations, I must say. Initially, the Turks consolidated in Asia and were Mongoloid. Then, during the resettlement, they mixed with the darkness of the peoples, which affected the appearance. Those who remained in Asia have changed little; there was talk about this. Deny - will you? If you have friends of scientifically recognized, etc. surnames in the studio, please, I will wool the Internet, maybe I will find them through social networks and ask them something about this topic. Good for that?

[CONTROL]

Quote: Dimmih

Good for that?

Нет!
(there are three of us - alternately under this nickname; I personally - will leave soon, for about a month; I can sometimes communicate on the tablet when there is communication; and it is rarely stable! the specifics of work ... or "pension"? haha ​​(sad ...)

[Cxnumx]

Uncle lee,
I'm tired of proving already. please read, only please do not turn off the video when you don’t like something (for example, if you suddenly call someone an idiot, because you can’t call him anything else)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3A_yaw--0w&t
= 297s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxkMpSF5wrI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXpB6se9QbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzprgr6EBH8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU-AJr_ogdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu4CoXze6GY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-TyA_YYW4

[Cxnumx]

Something is buggy, I can’t answer in the thread
The same LYOKHA,
WarriorWolf,
tired of proving already. Here is a video from those who have the profession of "historian." not a mathematician, not a writer, not a philosopher, etc. but a historian. on TV3 / REN-TV they do not come up with mega-revealing theories, they just work in their field.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3A_yaw--0w&t
= 297s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxkMpSF5wrI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXpB6se9QbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzprgr6EBH8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU-AJr_ogdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu4CoXze6GY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-TyA_YYW4

[Cat]

Yes Yes Yes. The historian is one of the three oldest professions.

[jmndslthr.]

something Goebbels’s granddaughters dispersed on this portal, a nation is built, ancestors are divided. pots for the Maidan - that is prepared with tires, horses?

[Dimmih]

Quote: venaya

Quote: Dimmih

.. linguists have never heard of the existence of a "native Russian language." And no one ever saw the inscriptions on it. ..

Try to contact specialists at Moscow State University, some of them have “heard”, and what is interesting is that in the academic laboratory of the oldest forms of writing, quite a lot of Russian-language inscriptions have already been read, determined by time over many tens of thousands of years. Perhaps you have not interviewed all specialists even in our country on this issue. Be more attentive, not everyone knows everything, but like me, I think everything to know somewhere is simply not realistic.

Name of these unknown specialists in the studio! And always with a link from the website of Moscow State University. And Russian-language inscriptions of ten thousand years ago in Russian, please. Or a certificate from a neurological clinic, this is most likely at hand.

[Cat]

Now, if they built a time machine - and would see how it really was Many historians, politicians, bloggers and forum users would hang themselves on a lace from a mouse

[Operator]

A strange article - the management of DNA Heritage is clearly not aware that several tests of representative groups of people have been carried out in Russia with the same result: Aryan R1a was determined as the dominant haplogroup of Russians (the national average is 50%), the next by specific weight is not Ugrofin Finnish N1a (according to the old nomenclature N1c1), but Illyrian I (15%), the descendants of Ugrofinns in third place with 10%.

In addition to the ethnic composition of a people, a linguistic and cultural basis is very important for its identification:
- among Russians it is Aryan (Russian is a Sanskrit dialect);
- among the Kyrgyz, it is Turkic (a legacy of assimilation by the Mongols);
- among Tajiks, it is Persian (a heritage of cultural assimilation by local northern Semites).

Therefore, the only cultural and blood successors to the Aryans are Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Slovaks and Poles.

For the Czechs, the dominant haplogroup is Celtic, for the Bulgarians - Hamitic, for most southern Slavs - Illyrian.

[Cat]

Give a reference to the Old. Somehow it looks really crazy about Tajiks and Persians. Persians like an Aryan group

[Operator]

Haplotype of Iranians - North Semitic J2 is dominant with 35%, Aryan R1a occupies 8% (legacy of the Avestan Aryans, who linguistically assimilated the Northern Semites)

[Cat]

The question is - who assimilated whom?

[Dormidont]

Oh, these genetics ... The whole buzz was broken off by the non-brothers with their thoroughbred and racial exclusivity

[Cat]

All this is just ridiculous. To sit at the crossroads of the world-wide mad migration of peoples - and declare purity of race

[Dimmih]

Support!

[insular]

Scrape anyone and you will not find Russian

[Cat]

Or will you find?

[Cat]

... Well, if you do not scrub niggas. Except for Pushkin, you definitely won’t find

[Spnsr]

you have not caught the most important thing! it’s not yet clear what genotype and subtype is peculiar to a particular area in order to determine who arrived later, but there is an emphasis that in some cases the inhabitants of the city differ from the rest of the population of the territory.
and yet, emphasis is placed on the fact that one nationality has a different genotype, i.e. at first
and the population of the area was formed, people of different genotypes, and then it was determined by nationality !!!
Once again, the racial classification, as well as the classification by nationality, was created at the end of the 18th century and developed throughout the 19th century!
it can also be said in the affirmative that back in the last century, there was a large territory on earth inhabited by a population that somehow did not need the rapid development of civilization ... and the development and development of these territories took place precisely with the appearance of some people with a slightly different genotype , which primarily created places of compact settlement (city)
regarding the development of the territories of the USSR do you need to give examples? and regarding other territories and their development outside the USSR, I think the same way can be reached!
about the dispute about the Mongols! back in the last century, they were not at a developmental stage that made it possible to engage in the development of territories, moreover, in the development of the territory of Mongolia, and as a fact of its appearance, Soviet people took part, including the appearance of the Mongolian language as such.
the same can be said about the territories of the former USSR. representatives of these republics were able to step further in their development and participate in the development of other territories, but, as a fact, the DEVELOPMENT AND DEVELOPMENT OF THE BASIC MASS OF TERRITORIES ON THE PLANET EARTH HAPPENED IN THE 20 CENTURY
so as not to argue, it may be time to stop reading myths called history and next to it, and take an interest in the emergence of certain sciences when they thoroughly began to appear and how this was reflected on the life map, if you want stories!
with some certainty, it can be argued that Britain and Russia were the first to appear, which, on the basis of the division of the territory of the so-called Ataman empire, themselves began to become empires, and the confrontation of these empires led to the emergence of a modern political map of the world. and the emergence of classifications such as nationality, to the name of the population of certain territories under a particular nationality!
and initially, people lived, did what they knew how, where it was necessary to develop agriculture, for example, raised virgin soil (for example, Kazakhstan during the USSR), or large construction sites in Uzbekistan during the same periods)) this justifies the migration of certain gene groups only somewhat early periods ....
and wars all took place on the territory from the Black Sea to the Baltic, this was 1941-1945, 1914-1917, 1812, and with the so-called Commonwealth and the Swede in the European part of Eurasia, and here, the most interesting, if there were people here with the features of the so-called Mongol, then as a part, now the GDP called it, the Russian world.

[Klaus]

Truly, I tell you, comrades workers and peasants: in 2017, the Earth will fly on the axis of the heavens!

[a housewife]

yes already flown! It was a good axis!

[Dimmih]

Quote: CONTROL

Quote: Dimmih

Quote: parusnik

We uphold the purity of the Aryan ... eeeee of the Russian nation ... If it’s not "clean", then what .. To rush into the Auschwitz stove or to line up in the Babi Yar ...

From ignorance, these arias breed, from dirt and dampness in the porches, they are read by wild nonsense, they will be assured of them in the Lord and do not notice that other arias in the porches have met a little need, but there’s nobody to clean up!

... from zass .... ca hear!
And let me be banned for the umpteenth time, but I won’t hand over my unclean entrance !!!

They ban you not for a dirty entrance, but for an unclean language.

[CONTROL]

[quote = Dimmih] [quote] From a lack of education, these arias spawn, from dirt and dampness in the porches, they read savage nonsense, they believe in them God and do not notice that other arias in the porches met a little need, and there was no one who was ignoble to take away with! [/ quote]
... from zass .... ca hear!
And let me be banned for the umpteenth time, - but my ... sorry, I’ll not give up an uncleaned entrance !!! [/ quote]
They ban you not for a dirty entrance, but for an unclean language. [/ Quote] [/ quote]
But this is already - Article 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation!
Since when right (!!!) Did the Russian language - almost according to Dal, Ushakov and Ozhegov - become "unclean"? And who is he "unclean"? and is it time to start to be interested in social origin, class affiliation, and - traditionally! - "than you Dimmihwere engaged to 17th year? "

[Dimmih]

[quote = CONTROL][quote = Dimmih] [quote] From a lack of education, these arias spawn, from dirt and dampness in the porches, they read savage nonsense, they believe in them God and do not notice that other arias in the porches met a little need, and there was no one who was ignoble to take away with! [/ quote]
... from zass .... ca hear!
And let me be banned for the umpteenth time, - but my ... sorry, I’ll not give up an uncleaned entrance !!! [/ quote]
They ban you not for a dirty entrance, but for an unclean language. [/ Quote] [/ quote]
But this is already - Article 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation!
Since when right (!!!) Did the Russian language - almost according to Dal, Ushakov and Ozhegov - become "unclean"? And who is he "unclean"? and is it time to start to be interested in social origin, class affiliation, and - traditionally! - "than you Dimmihwere engaged to 17th year "? [/ Quote]
I will answer you traditionally politely and in order: 1) You used this expression in relation to me - "... from the sass .... I hear it!" Although I ask you to indicate where I used this word to you, find it difficult to do this, because it was not. So lying. 2) Article 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation is the Excitement of hatred or enmity, as well as the humiliation of human dignity. Indicate where I commit the indicated acts against you. You can’t, so who are you? That's right, he is. 3) Please kindly link to the dictionary of Dahl, Ushakov, Ozhegov where there is a mention of the word you used, you say that you write in pure literary. You can not? So who are you? Right, thrice! 4) 1917 and who we were .... Yes, it’s all just peasants farmers, there is no secret in this, the usual respectable profession.

[Nemesis]

Scratch the Tatar and you will find Russian ... Russians in Tatarstan about 60% ... Tatars are the second largest, after Russians, nationality in the Russian Federation ... Russians in Russia 84% ...

[Klaus]

Russian is a person who lives in Russian national, ethnic, linguistic culture and does not think of himself OUTSIDE IT. This definition was given to me by the supervisor when I was writing my diploma. But this is not a definition, since the term "culture" has more than 300 interpretations to date .. Everything is debatable, everything is determined verbally ... But there are statistics on this, and statistics, as we all know, is a prostitute in the service of the state.

[Krasnoyarsk]

And if you scrape the Tatar?

[combat192]

If after that the Tatar does not respond with assault, then he liked it.

[Krasnoyarsk]

[quote = combat192] Would you be so kind as to answer me one question. Is Russian from the Vologda region and Russian from Kursk one nationality? If so, why do they differ in appearance, have different traditions, different national costumes, and even speak different languages.
What are you saying! If somewhere o-cabin, and somewhere a-cabin, somewhere "swallow" the end of the word, so it is immediately "different languages"? Are you out of your mind, dear? When I arrived in Ukraine, I understood everything, but at first I asked to speak more slowly. Here is Western Ukraine, the former Galicia, yes there, there are differences. But not so big that they would not understand anything at all. About the customs. I had to be at weddings in different villages, separated by 5 km. and at 10, and imagine the rites were different! Is it because the nations are different? No! This is because the initial rite was interpreted by each grandmother in each village in his own way, as he remembered. And so from generation to generation. And as a result, we have pronounced differences in the rite, although the basis is the same. And further. Russian is a nationality. A Russian is a citizen of the Russian Federation.

[combat192]

Well, yes, yes ... And if they gig it is another language.
Do not confuse, dear, people and nation with nationality. Learn, if necessary.

[combat192]

Well, just in case. I consider myself Russian. I live in the Russian city of Sevastopol. The parents of the deceased were both from Yaroslavl, the great-grandmother was a Tartar baptized, nee Urusova by name, my great-great-grandfather was an Orthodox priest, and I am a fourth-generation retired soldier. And therefore, do not teach me who is who in MY COUNTRY, for I will indicate the direction of movement.

[stylet]

DNA genealogy lecture by professor Klesov A.
https://youtu.be/u59taZFscYs

[Concept1]

Russophobes can beat your head against the wall will not help ..)))

About how many wonderful discoveries the path of enlightenment prepares us !!!

Professor Klyosov. "Russians through the Millennia"

[Concept1]

Anatoly Klyosov. "History of the Jews: What did DNA analysis show?"

[Concept1]

Anatoly Klyosov. Mysteries of the ancient Slavs

[boni592807]

Good day .
An interesting and fundamentally correct interpretation. But, I would suggest that those who are seriously interested in the issue read the works of A.A. Klyosov. incl. “DNA genealogy from A to T.” There’s a lot of interesting stuff there for anyone who wants to stay up to date.
Based on the proposed article, it is clear about the Mongol-Tatar yoke.
But what will the period from 1991 to 2017 (and beyond) be called based on genealogy? They will retain their percentages from the point of view of the gene pool, the next ones are representatives of haplogroup R1a in 1st place, N2a in 1nd, I in 3rd, then R1b in Russia.
In the 90s, in one of the programs they asked an anthropology professor what a Russian citizen would be like in 100 years. Answer: “Look at those who occupy a dominant position in the market and in the economy...”
Yours faithfully, …

[ver_]

Quote: Seraphimamur

Genetics is the selling girl of imperialism! We need to believe the story that the Germans wrote to us under Catherine. Mongolo and the Tatar yoke were. And the fact that there is no Mongolian blood in the blood of Russians is from the abstinence of the Mongol warriors for 300 years. And you also need to believe in American propaganda and Hollywood crafts on historical topics.

...well, just before the campaign, these same Mongols were castrated, so that they were not distracted from the Great Goal by all kinds of copulation, both among themselves and with any other warm bodies...

[Thompson]

Braga is like this, and she will shove something else into her head

[ver_]

Quote: axxenm

Scratch the Tatar - you will find a Russian ..

..Tatar=mounted warrior, Tatars=horse squad.. The Tatar nationality appeared in 1920 by a resolution of the Central Executive Committee..- the Volga Bulgars were re-christened Tatars... Which Tatars do you want to scrape together?.. Those who are cavalrymen, or the Volga Bulgars? ..

[ver_]

Quote: Mobik

Taiga? What taiga? The steppe corridor through all of Eurasia is not heard.

...besides the Tama steppe there is the Karakum desert (remember the camel candies) and the impassable Taklamakan desert, 1000 km long. and 400 km. wide.. there is no water in this desert... Horses will not pass - only the camel tribe..