Military Review

Vladislav Dvoryaninov: Our system of small arms is the best in the world!

49



Kalashnikov assault rifle, Dragunov sniper rifle, Serdyukov's “Vintorez” ... These and many other samples of rifle weapons long ago became the real symbols of the national defense industry. At the same time, for some reason, there is no understanding in the mass consciousness that any, even superbly designed, small arms will be absolutely useless without ammunition that is just as excellent in its characteristics.

To some extent restore the status quo, correspondent of the Federal Agency News met with a truly unique person - Vladislav Dvoryaninov.

"Magnetron" and its consequences

Vladislav Nikolaevich - Candidate of Technical Sciences, laureate of the Lenin Komsomol Prize, the S.Isin Prize and the 2004 Prize of the Government of the Russian Federation in the field of science and technology. He gave more than five decades of work within the walls of the Order of the October Revolution of the Central Research Institute of Precision Engineering - TSNIITOCHMASH.

With the direct participation of Dvoryaninov, many modern Russian combat cartridges were created, including the 7,62-mm rifle sniper cartridge 7H1. By the way, 7Н1 with a CH bullet turned out to be the first special army cartridge for sniper weapons.

Vladislav Nikolaevich is the author of about 40 patents of the Russian Federation and copyright certificates for the invention. Not so long ago his unique four-volume monograph was published. "Small arms ammunition". In other words, Vladislav Nikolayevich is a true Russian guru of the world of cartridges!

- Vladislav Nikolayevich, you worked at 52 for the year at TsNIITOCHMASH. In fact, you have been developing cartridges all your life. How did it happen that you became a designer-patron?

- To be honest, to some extent, this happened by chance. During the war, our family was evacuated from Moscow to Kazakhstan, so I finished school in Almaty. And there, in the tenth grade, I read the scientific and technical novel “Magnetron” by Georgy Babat and Anna Garf. This is a thick informative work on the development of the first domestic radars. The work of the designers was very well described there, the importance of their labor for the defense of the country was emphasized. I had previously thought about the profession of a design engineer, and after “Magnetron” this profession turned into my dream. I really wanted to become a developer of military equipment. I got a reference book for university applicants, looked through it and seemed to find what I needed - the Leningrad Military Mechanical Institute, the instrument-making faculty. “That's it!” I thought. Parents tried to dissuade, but where there ... I went to Leningrad.

- Received?

- Entered. Already during his studies at the institute, somewhere in his third year, it finally became clear that our faculty was training general mechanical engineers, but ...

- But?

- ... But mainly for the enterprises of the cartridge industry, and not radio electronics. In the 1960 year, at distribution, I refused to stay in graduate school with the prospect of becoming a teacher at LVMI and expressed a desire to work in Klimovsk near Moscow, at SRI-61 (the future TsNIITOCHMASH) - the only research institute in the country that developed rifle ammunition. There I worked for 23 of the year as a design engineer and another 29 years - as the head of the lead, leading in the USSR, the CIS and Russia department of ammunition for small arms and firearms.

“Why didn't you want to stay in graduate school?”

- Let's just say, this “motion vector” seemed to me quite boring. I wanted to invent, invent something, do a real job and feel the joy of achieving the goal that was finally achieved.

- And how, joy experienced?

- What about? I remember when we first got decent results on the accuracy of shooting, my colleague Viktor Alekseevich Petrov could not stand it and shouted: “Hurray, accuracy is in our hands!” However, we have been refining 15 for years ... However, the joy from the first successes was and short, but believe me, unforgettable.

Vladislav Dvoryaninov. Photos from the board of honor TSNIITOCHMASH. 1973 year.
Vladislav Dvoryaninov. Photos from the board of honor TSNIITOCHMASH. 1973 year.

"Lucky - they didn't take me!"

- Has your work always brought you only joy?

- Of course not. After starting work at SRI-61, I quickly became a responsible executor for independent research work. The following year, I again became responsible for independent research. And in the third year I was included in the group of one of our most famous patron saints, Pyotr Fedorovich Sazonov, who developed, in particular, the design of a bullet, which was later used to create an 5,45-mm cartridge. The Sazonov bullet is called the best bullet of the 20th century! .. So, I turned out to be just a technologist in the Sazonov group. Moreover, our topic on the development of a single automatic rifle cartridge was closed. And I was out of work. Everyone is working, but I am not. Nearby opened the design office of agricultural machinery. I was so upset about what happened that I somehow tried to get a job there.

- Happened?

- Lucky - they didn't take me! This was the first and last time when I was thinking about changing jobs. And what do you think? As soon as I received a refusal of the design bureau, I immediately got a new interesting topic - feathered sub-caliber bullets, the work on which I gave later to 17 for years and was incredibly happy!

- What, in your opinion, is the most difficult thing in the work of the designer-cartridgemaker?

- Perhaps, luck to become a member of not only the beginning of the development of ammunition, but also bringing this ammunition to adoption. It should be understood that in any system of small arms the cartridge is decisive, but the most conservative part of it. After the development and development of the production of the cartridge in size, design, ballistics is no longer subject to fundamental changes. New types of cartridges are developed only at the birth of new types of weapons or when rearming, which happens quite rarely.

- How rare?

- On average, in 25 years. In the meantime, either the ammunition already in service or the scientific research is being upgraded. Of course, such studies are needed. For example, the same research on the causes that affect the penetration of bullets. But these studies for the designer are not as significant as the development and adoption of the gained new model for service. Therefore, the most difficult thing in the life of a patron is to be a contemporary and a participant in real work, and not just scientific research, research and theoretical calculations. And, in all cases, the challenge is not handicraft, but the creative component of the designer’s work - to offer something new, original. Understand the reasons, find a solution and achieve the desired result, previously unavailable.

- Mosin, Simonov, Shpagin, Degtyarev, Dragunov, Tokarev, Makarov, Stechkin, Kalashnikov, Yarygin, Serdyukov ... Many of us know the names of domestic gunsmiths. Almost no one knows the names of the developers of small arms ammunition in Russia. Why did this happen?

- I think this result was due to several factors. Before the appearance of a unitary cartridge in the 19th century, small arms ammunition was often extremely simple in design and simply did not have any specific author. To this we add the fact that firearms traditionally attracted more attention than ammunition. Weapons are loved, collected, studied. Weapons are often given the name of the one who designed it. Under the same cartridge created a large number of different samples. And when shooting, for example, from a pistol, you first of all draw attention to the fact that you are holding exactly this weapon in your hands, and the cartridge ... He is "the same, ordinary."

Therefore, the interest in the used cartridges and their creators is much weaker and is caused by an erroneous misconception about the simplicity of everything connected with the cartridges. Like, what is the cartridge? This is just an encapsulated sleeve, a powder sample and a bullet ... Meanwhile, the power of any rifle complex is determined by the patron. A professional will always ask first what kind of rifle you have, but what kind of cartridge it is for.


Melodrama around 5,45-mm cartridge

- A significant part of the Russian public is very critical of domestic ammunition, considering that the characteristics and quality of manufacture of foreign ammunition is much higher. Do you share this opinion?

- I believe that the domestic system of small arms, including ammunition, is still the best in the world. It is clear that, on the one hand, every sandpiper praises its swamp. On the other hand, I personally know well what I'm talking about. Even if we turn to modern foreign assessments, we will see that in almost every objective analysis concerning the real state of affairs, the fact of our superiority is stated directly. This justifies the need for new, as always very ambitious programs for the development of rifle ammunition, weapons and auxiliary systems.

- What are these conclusions based on?

“They draw such conclusions on the basis of a comparative analysis of the real technical and combat characteristics of our modern cartridges, which have been significantly upgraded in recent years. For example, not so long ago two new 5,45-mm automaton cartridges were used at once: 7H39 - with enhanced armor penetration and 7H40 - improved accuracy. The latter ensures accuracy of shooting with single shots according to the standard for a sniper rifle cartridge, that is, 5 times better in the area of ​​dispersion than the standard 7НХNUMX standard cartridge. At the same time, according to correct and objective comparative tests, it is well known that the domestic AK6 submachine gun surpasses the best foreign counterparts in efficiencies — for example, the same M74 rifle — approximately 16 times, but at the same time yielded to them with the 1,3HX7 cartridge also 6 times.

- It was caused by the best technical accuracy of foreign 5,56-mm cartridges when firing single shots?

- Yes. And there have long been heated debates around this - which factor is more important? With the development of the same cartridge 7H40 all such disputes can be stopped, as they say, "for the clear advantage" of our new cartridge. Without going into details, I also note that in all other rifle calibers, domestic cartridges are in no way inferior to the best foreign analogues.

- And still, you often hear complaints about the quality of Russian cartridges.

- With regard to the quality of the manufacture of our cartridges, here it is necessary to separate the live ammunition and commercial, intended for the civilian market - hunters, practical shooting, target sports. Since they, after all, have different requirements. We have no questions or problems with live ammunition. With commercial, the situation is somewhat different, although I do not consider myself an expert in this field. But I am sure that when (and if) in our country shooting sports get developed and really widely available, the situation will change radically like the western countries, where civil circulation of cartridges and weapons has centuries-old traditions, and the size of this market is very large and not comparable with our. But such changes cannot and should not happen overnight, of course.

- Thus, we can conclude that the ballistics, the striking effect and other characteristics of domestic combat cartridges are at altitude?

- Moreover, in relation to the damaging effect of domestic ammunition, our patrons even had to prove to foreigners that it is not as high as it is believed in the West.

- Excuse me, what is it like?

- In 1980, Western specialists became aware of the use of a new assault rifle for the original 5,45 caliber by Soviet troops in Afghanistan. At the same time, there were rumors that the bullet of the 5,45 cartridge was not only “poisonous”, but also due to its hollow core in the head part of the casing, which was supposedly easily destroyed, has a huge destructive effect. What is not compatible with the requirements of the Hague Declaration 1899 of the Year. Up to this point, the focus of attention of international organizations was the problem of excessively heavy gunshot wounds with 5,56-mm bullets from the American MXNUM cartridge. And then there was the equally terrible Soviet 193-mm cartridge!

“I think the Americans immediately began to“ ring the bells ”in every way and blame the Soviet designers for their inhumanity.

- And not only Americans. The Swedes and the West Germans, too. One of the Bundestag deputies even made a request to his government: “What is it going to undertake to prohibit the new Soviet 5,45-mm weapon, which is contrary to international law?”

- What is it all over?

- It was proved that all the accusations made against the Soviet 5,45-mm cartridge are untenable. But the design of the bullets 5,56-mm and 7,62-mm NATO ammunition, although not formally contrary to the Hague Convention, in fact, should be banned for use as causing unnecessary suffering for injuries. Detail this melodramatic history I described in my monograph "Small arms ammunition».

About "Accuracy" and not only

- Your monograph, consisting of four books, was released in 2015 year. For the first time in a single Russian-language publication, a detailed history of cartridges has been consolidated and presented almost from prehistoric times to the present day. As far as I know, the monograph has been written by you for 17 years. How and when did you come up with the idea of ​​creating such a monumental work?


- I started working on these books in April 1995 of the year, and practically finished in 2012. How did the idea of ​​writing them? In response, I will quote from my own diary of the time: “Why did this desire come about? The main reason - anxiety for the future of my profession, which gave his whole life. Knowing how difficult for decades the national school of small arms developers was created, and seeing how it dies, my heart aches with anxiety for Russia ... I write these lines at the beginning of 1995 of the year. Scanty financing, chronic defaults and the absence of any reliable plans for the future led to the bleeding of the overwhelming majority of defense enterprises, scientific research institutes and design bureaus ... Almost all young people and middle-aged specialists, as well as a part of mature specialists, went off in an effort to survive! From our department, 55 [at the beginning of 28] left 1995 ... And what will happen in a few years when leading experts start to retire? To pass on the experience? ”It was written exactly in 1995, sincerely. It seems to me that no additional comments are required.

- Indeed, an exhaustive answer. Let me have one more question on the subject matter. The adoption of the Russian sniper complex "Tochnost" using the domestic analogue of the .2017 Lapua Magnum (338 mm) ammunition 8,670, caused a lot of noise abroad. The manual of the US Army Russian New Generation Warfare Handbook indicated that the appearance of a sniper rifle with the .338 LM cartridge by the Russian security forces would force the American snipers to seriously reconsider their tactics. In the article Russian Army Snipers Have Rifles and Ammo That Can Pierce US Body Armor, published by the analytical publication The National Interest, the author claimed that the Russian rifles under the .338 LM make any American personal protective equipment useless. Does the emergence of a counterpart ammunition in Russia. 338 LM really expands the capabilities of Russian snipers?

- Yes, the new sniper complex “Tochnost” has been developed and put into service by special units of our security forces. But I don’t see any sensation in this - as soon as they decided that they needed their own complex, it was developed. That once again confirmed the high professionalism of our designers. The result was two good sniper cartridges completely domestic production - with ordinary and armor-piercing bullets. The cartridges are similar and interchangeable with foreign ones, but the design of the bullets is different. As a result, the final characteristics of our cartridges, both in accuracy and armor penetration, surpassed the best foreign counterparts, really giving our fighters greater opportunities ... But such a complex for our country is not the first. For example, in 2005, new sniper cartridges and weapons for them were adopted by the Russian army at once in three calibers, including 9,3х64-mm cartridge 7H33, which is only slightly inferior to the cartridge of the “Precision” complex.

7,62x54 sniper 7N14; 9x63 sniper 7N33; 8,6x70 sniper "Accuracy"
From left to right: 7,62х54 sniper 7Н14; 9х63 sniper 7Н33; 8,6х70 sniper "Accuracy"

- There is an opinion that small arms and, accordingly, ammunition to it, at the moment have reached the limit of their capabilities. Like, something more without changing the physical principles of the weapon and the transition to any electromagnetic guns, railguns or liquid propellant substances cannot be achieved. Is it so?

“Considering today about the prospects for further development, it is necessary to understand well that, firstly, the combat qualities of any complex are determined by its practical effectiveness and that even such“ beautiful ”features like accuracy or armor penetration are important, but only one of the common factors affecting the final result. Therefore, for example, no one will benefit from a super-armor-piercing bullet if the probability of hitting the target (due to an increased recoil impulse in the pursuit of this penetrability) will be just 1 – 2%.
Secondly, any cartridge or promising system of throwing damaging elements, according to the laws of physics, was and will be a combination of different parameters and requirements that directly contradict each other. And the choice of priorities, options for combining these parameters should proceed only from sound technical requirements for solving a specific task. And not the way it often happens these days, when a “new optimal miracle cartridge” is born first, and then marketers gain “advantages” for it.
Thirdly, small arms cannot be considered on their own, without taking into account their interaction with all other types of modern weapons, an adequate analysis of the tasks facing each type. Since it is well known that erroneous criteria or requirements for efficiency lead to wrong tendencies in the direction of development, loss of huge funds, efforts and time.

- That is, it's too early to talk about railguns ...

- Specifically, I will not fantasize about the railguns and other wonders, but on the whole the topic is really very serious, since we have to largely agree that the possibilities for the further development of cartridges of the classical scheme are practically exhausted today. As a result, it is impossible to obtain a fundamentally new level of efficiency on this path. That does not exclude the demand in the future, under certain circumstances, such non-classical schemes of cartridges, such as swept ammunition in single-pulley or multi-pulley versions. I do not exclude the emergence of automatic weapons based on ammunition with minimal recoil pulses in combination with grenade launcher elements of weapons designed to defeat highly protected targets.

- What are we talking about?

“For example, about the increasingly ground-based combat robots on the tracked platform ... In any case, a noticeable progress in developing new rifle complexes requires intensive searches, in-depth scientific research and inventions. But this is the task of the current and next generation of cartridge and gunsmiths. Of course, using the rich experience of predecessors, for knowledge is the most invincible weapon!

Vladislav Dvoryaninov: Our system of small arms is the best in the world!

PS Our conversation with Vladislav Nikolayevich lasted a couple of hours, and, of course, not all of them got into the published text. Nevertheless, I want to draw a certain line. If you want - to put a kind of postscript dedicated to the pleiad of veterans of the Soviet military-industrial complex.

These are amazing people. Those of them who are still alive are often still active and energetic. This is a real fount of knowledge, experience and information. They retired when their resource was far from exhausted. They DIDN'T WORK, however paradoxical it may sound in our time. And how do they miss their work! .. To the Power. To something global and unexplored! .. Not the first time I notice how these people light up their eyes, when (most often - quite by accident) throw them some puzzle. Almost instant analysis, accounting of all pro et contra, after which they explain on your fingers the most acceptable solution ...

Absolutely awesome people. Great thanks to them for what they were and are.
Author:
Originator:
https://riafan.ru/1011149-vladislav-dvoryaninov-nasha-sistema-strelkovogo-vooruzheniya-luchshaya-v-mire
Photos used:
Nikolay Dvoryaninov
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 28 December 2017 06: 09 New
    12
    Thank you for the article .. yes, and it's nice to hear the opinion of the person directly living and working in this topic.
    1. Jedi
      Jedi 28 December 2017 10: 27 New
      +6
      Hello Dima! hi The opinion from the original source is always interesting, without cuts, so to speak. I join in gratitude for the article.
  2. The comment was deleted.
    1. Colonel
      Colonel 28 December 2017 12: 14 New
      +2
      But who the hell you are? About the cartridge "Couple" can you read more? Just don’t say that it’s 9x19 Parabellum, otherwise you’ll pierce it.
      1. bunta
        bunta 28 December 2017 13: 12 New
        +5
        Quote: colonel
        And who are you?

        Do not pay attention, this type is periodically banned, it is registered every time under a new nickname. It is better to immediately blacklist and do not get distracted from the main thing.
      2. reg
        reg 28 December 2017 13: 47 New
        +1
        Quote: colonel
        About the cartridge "Couple" can you read more?

        Can not. Because I prefer to communicate exclusively with intelligent people.
    2. Anyone
      Anyone 28 December 2017 13: 47 New
      0
      For character reg: To put it mildly, it's hard to believe that for over 70 years there has been such an imbalance: one of the best small arms in the world and, supposedly, the worst ammunition in the world. Can you justify your statement?
      1. reg
        reg 28 December 2017 14: 15 New
        +4
        Quote: Anyone
        To put it mildly, it's hard to believe that for over 70 years there has been such an imbalance: one of the best small arms in the world and, supposedly, the worst ammunition in the world.

        I would also like to hear about what it is "one of the best small arms in the world"? Stamps? Models?
        Can you list the list of countries in great demand buying this "one of the best small arms in the world"? Or even at least one country? For real money, and not for cunning obligations, which are then not fulfilled and debited?
        Quote: Anyone
        Can you justify your statement?

        Of course.
        But why do you need it? What about me?
        The moderators of this site apparently do not like the truth about the USSR. For one warning have been sent so as not to twitch. The phrase “As soon as you laugh you can’t subtract in Runet. Here's another, from the series“ Soviet, means excellent “” seemed to them to violate their rules. So look for the truth on other sites. Fortunately, they are.
        1. reg
          reg 28 December 2017 14: 30 New
          +3
          Quote: reg
          The moderators of this site apparently do not like the truth about the USSR. For one warning have been sent so as not to twitch. The phrase “As soon as you laugh you can’t subtract in Runet. Here's another, from the series“ Soviet, means excellent “” seemed to them to violate their rules. So look for the truth on other sites. Fortunately, they are.

          Gosha. Even the comment has been deleted. Pluralism in action. But I just tried to challenge the claim that "Our small arms system is the best in the world!" It was just about that.
          No wonder that on this site you can read mainly bravura Soviet fairy tales flavored with "very ideologically correct", but incompetent cues.
          1. reg
            reg 28 December 2017 14: 44 New
            +1
            Quote: reg
            Pluralism in action. But I just tried to challenge the claim that "Our small arms system is the best in the world!" It was just about that.

            And even as an example, I cited the adoption of the cartridge of the Russian Federation Para, obviously not Soviet. Those. gave an example of an action that refutes the above statement.
            And what is the result? Comment deleted, I received a warning. Stumble.
        2. Anyone
          Anyone 28 December 2017 14: 32 New
          +3
          In short, you can not justify))
          PS I will not discuss moderation for obvious reasons.
          1. reg
            reg 28 December 2017 14: 41 New
            +1
            Quote: Anyone
            In short, you can not justify))

            Did you read it?
            Quote: reg
            Quote: Anyone
            For character reg

            Just noticed. I already wrote a colonel there. It concerns you too.

            No? Read.
      2. reg
        reg 28 December 2017 14: 33 New
        +1
        Quote: Anyone
        For character reg

        Just noticed. I already wrote a colonel there. It concerns you too.
        1. Colonel
          Colonel 28 December 2017 15: 09 New
          +6
          Quote: reg
          I wrote there already ....
          I understand who, the dumbbell, but spiteful. Considers himself an intellectual.
          1. reg
            reg 28 December 2017 15: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: colonel
            I understand who, the dumbbell, but spiteful.

            Communicate with moderators on this subject.
            1. reg
              reg 28 December 2017 20: 08 New
              +2
              And also to the question of the statements of Dvoryaninov. Very clearly, even dummies in this thread will easily understand.
              Here is a tablet from the atlas of gunshot wounds (Ministry of Defense of the USSR, 1986):
              [media = https: //topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2017-12/15
              13742907_atlas.png]
              It is clearly seen that the AK is very much losing the M16. But what about the AK-74?
              DE AK-74 is only 79,2% of the DE M16A2. However, the ballistic coefficient. the bullets are a little bit better. He will not ignore this factor and conditionally accept the final energy for the AK-74 bullet target of about 80% of the M16A2 level.
              But then continuous troubles begin. The bullet should transfer its energy to the victim’s body as efficiently as possible (faster). And then all the factors act against the AK-74 bullet:
              1. That ballist. koef, he is better with the AK-74 bullet. For external ballistics, this is good, for terminal, bad.
              2. Its caliber, which means the transverse area of ​​the AK-74 bullet is less. This means that it will slow down more slowly.
              3. Its longitudinal area is also smaller. And this also means that it will slow down more slowly.
              But today I am kind. And I will take the effectiveness of the AK-74 bullet equal to the efficiency of the M16A2 bullet. 32 percent, so 32 percent. The principle of action of bullets is the same. Let the percentage be the same.
              And what is the result? But in the end, we have 398 J x 80% = 318 J. And this, I repeat, just because I'm good today. But in fact it will be less.
              And now the question is: which bullet will be more effective, the one that transfers 398 J to the victim’s body or the one that transfers 318 J to the victim’s body?
              The answer is obvious. And it directly contradicts the claims of Dvoryaninov.
              So, with the pistols sorted out on the historical example of the cartridge of Steam.
              With guns, now. If someone didn’t understand something, it’s not my fault.
              What remains of the statements of Dvoryaninov? Well, here it is.

              For some reason, it does not load the image of the tablet. It's not scary, anyone can see it here:
              https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2017-12/151374290
              7_atlas.png
              1. aws4
                aws4 29 December 2017 21: 59 New
                0
                a couple of questions for you ... 1 what rifles, machine guns did you use, exploited ??? (not shootings at the shooting range lying on the Karimath) 2 whether participated in the BD where specifically? with what weapons and in which unit ???
        2. Anyone
          Anyone 28 December 2017 22: 11 New
          +1
          You did not answer. Rather, they answered the question with a question, which equals the absence of an answer. The question was simple.
          1. reg
            reg 28 December 2017 22: 42 New
            +1
            Quote: Anyone
            You have not answered.

            And I won’t answer. Why, see above. I’ll not repeat it for the 100th time.
            1. Anyone
              Anyone 28 December 2017 23: 23 New
              +4
              There is garbage (see above). The essence of your conclusions is approximately the following: the first car has 100 hp, and the second - 120. So the second is better. Although, it is not better, but more powerful. Or maybe not, if we consider the specific power. And so on ... The criterion of truth, as you know, is practice. And practice says that more than 20 percent of small arms in the world are modifications and variants of AK. Without a doubt, there are many rifles that outperform the AK in individual characteristics. So what?
              1. reg
                reg 28 December 2017 23: 36 New
                +2
                Quote: Anyone
                the first car has 100 hp, and the second - 120. So the second is better.

                If we are talking about single-purpose cars for which the engine power is a clear plus, then yes, then it is better.
                The transmitted energy of a bullet is a major factor in small arms. And the AK-74 and M16 weapons, they are of the same purpose. As planned. In fact, of course not.
                In addition, the M16 also has a lot of winning moments. Well, for example, the accuracy of automatic fire. And much more.
                Quote: Anyone
                And practice says that more than 20 percent of small arms in the world are modifications and variants of AK.

                Why not? They were distributed free of charge to the people of the whole world. No one refused. Yes, and it would be foolish to refuse.
                Quote: Anyone
                Without a doubt, there are many rifles that surpass the AK in terms of individual characteristics. So what?

                The rifle and AK are weapons of different classes. Correctly compare comparable things.

                I will not answer you anymore. Until you apologize for the "character." Know how to be rude, know how and apologize.
                1. Anyone
                  Anyone 29 December 2017 00: 09 New
                  +4
                  1. It's funny. We have with you (conditionally) a / m for the same purpose. Yours, for example, has a higher power, and mine has a torque. Which is better? )))
                  2. What year do you know now? I think you were stuck in 1980. Already 30 years of commercials, we do not give out to the people of the world (your thesaurus) weapons. Well, or give away no more than the United States. But something is not visible worldwide trend towards replacing AK.
                  3. First, determine the criteria for comparison, and only then make a comparison. Otherwise, this is a conversation about nothing.
                  4. After I called you a character, you have already written 3 posts to me. And now they suddenly decided that they were offended and would not talk to me anymore? )) You are not a blonde hour))
                2. aws4
                  aws4 29 December 2017 21: 57 New
                  0
                  a couple of questions for you ... 1 what rifles, machine guns did you use, exploited ??? (not shootings at the shooting range lying on the Karimath) 2 whether participated in the BD where specifically? with what weapons and in which unit ???
      3. Korax71
        Korax71 29 December 2017 04: 31 New
        0
        And which countries of the developed countries took the armament in armament? Now we don’t take those to whom the USSR, for its beautiful eyes and faith in the victory of communism, put armaments in terms of ammunition, the same parsley as in terms of armaments. From 5,45x39 whole its striking potential depends only on a small cavity in the nose of the bullet and its flight on the verge of gyroscopic stability. If we compare the wound channels 5.45 and 5.56, the first clearly loses in terms of its striking ability. e let's face it. if the same a didn't get mass ra space due to the fact that it’s not better, but simply because it’s for nothing, it’s unlikely by the combination of qualities that it was considered the best in the world. Of all its advantages, only mass can be distinguished. And the vaunted reliability is pretty pretty abstract. According to the main characteristics he has long lost to his competitors.
    3. Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
      Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich 29 December 2017 05: 23 New
      +2
      NATO (or rather Pindocs) is more and more thoroughly approaching to abandon such a "beautiful" .223 Rem in favor of 6,8 or 6,5 mm ...
      And you must have heard about this more than once.
      1. Korax71
        Korax71 31 December 2017 03: 53 New
        -1
        So the main reason for the transition is personal protective equipment. At this stage of development, neither 5,45 nor 5,56 allow you to hit the enemy from certain ranges in the east and will refuse 5.56 for a very long time. Of course, the same grendel has undeniable advantages even over 7.62x39.
  3. CooL_SnipeR
    CooL_SnipeR 28 December 2017 13: 01 New
    0
    But didn’t they touch on the accordion theme of the fact that bullets from 5.45x39 can’t break bulrushes and branches? I don’t know how right now, but the first bullets had such an effect.
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 28 December 2017 17: 59 New
      +6
      I don’t know, right now, but when they got AK-84 instead of AKM at 85 or 74, they didn’t have any problems. True, when shooting bulletproof vests at 100 m. The result was much worse. But then the "armor" was not a problem, because there were almost none. drinks
  4. bunta
    bunta 28 December 2017 13: 09 New
    +1
    feathered sub-caliber bullets, the work on which I then gave 17 years and was incredibly happy with this!


    Which were never adopted.
    Here she is the great homespun truth of the meaning of life!
    1. viktorch
      viktorch 28 December 2017 13: 46 New
      +1
      it would be strange if they were accepted, in an opera on a rifled barrel - there’s little sense
      1. prodi
        prodi 28 December 2017 15: 30 New
        0
        probably, nevertheless, it would be possible to choose the moment of separation of the longer swept core from the main bullet just before the exit from the barrel
  5. Korax71
    Korax71 28 December 2017 14: 09 New
    0
    Of course, I’m smart, I can’t say anything. But according to the statement that the cartridge was made of high accuracy and the accuracy of the battle increased sharply, doubts crept in. Of course, the ammunition affects the accuracy of shooting, but he can’t defeat either the recoil momentum or barrel vibrations and bending of the ck when fired from an ak. it would have been so simple. Well, the parts that ammunition is better for the army are also very doubtful. At one time they shot through a series from one batch through the cron. The difference from cartridge to cartridge is about 80 thousand. this is not enough.
    1. Mrdnv
      28 December 2017 16: 04 New
      +3
      7H40 has such accuracy due to the design of the bullet. Exclusively. Accuracy and manufacturing technology are the same. Materials bullets, gunpowder, primer - the same. The recoil momentum of the cartridge is the same. Machine is the same. As a result, the cost of the cartridge is almost unchanged compared to 7H6M. This is a real fact. So the controversy on the comparison can really stop.
      If it is difficult (not to want) to believe that the whole thing is not about money, but about talent and competence, then this is no longer a technical conversation.
      As for the initial speed: we have the rules for the acceptance of machine-gun live ammunition and the standard for speed for gross batches remained the same: Rv = 6,5 m / s. (probabilistic deviation), really 5,8-6 ...
  6. Some kind of compote
    Some kind of compote 28 December 2017 17: 56 New
    16
    Our small arms system is the best in the world!

    Traditionally
    And more than a century - since the time of the mosquito
    Fine good
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 29 December 2017 06: 05 New
      0
      Not everything is so rosy and unambiguous. The mosquito was shot with a bayonet, but there was an uncomfortable fuse and the shutter handle was much inferior to the English one. Small machine guns are included in the rifle (a single one is also manual), on which, as with the whole automatic, a replaceable barrel is desirable. M16 is with him, but still the long right hand of the free world is called FN FAL, which is built according to the SVT-40 scheme, which the Germans willingly took in trophies. Since the time of the mosquito, already 125, but they did not take it precisely because of such a fuse.
  7. Doliva63
    Doliva63 28 December 2017 18: 05 New
    +4
    Quote: Korax71
    Of course, I’m smart, I can’t say anything. But according to the statement that the cartridge was made of high accuracy and the accuracy of the battle increased sharply, doubts crept in. Of course, the ammunition affects the accuracy of shooting, but he can’t defeat either the recoil momentum or barrel vibrations and bending of the ck when fired from an ak. it would have been so simple. Well, the parts that ammunition is better for the army are also very doubtful. At one time they shot through a series from one batch through the cron. The difference from cartridge to cartridge is about 80 thousand. this is not enough.

    It always seemed to me that the barrel and the eye of the shooter influence accuracy, and the cartridge affects accuracy. Well, of course, when a bullet goes strictly along the line of aim, it’s great! But when the trunk is crooked, everything will go where it should. Not? laughing drinks
    1. Korax71
      Korax71 29 December 2017 04: 08 New
      0
      Well, not really. The accuracy depends on the skill of the shooter. And such a parameter as technical accuracy depends on many factors. Right now we don’t take bent trunks, although in fact they are absolutely flat. All factors affect the accuracy of the battle. And the barrel, and ck, and the method of locking, when locking by turning, is the contact area of ​​the fighting stops, up to the uniformity of the striker and harmonic oscillations of the barrel when fired, as well as the mass of the bullet, the weight of gunpowder. And a bunch of factors. You can’t just change one cartridge for another, better or with better b. . to consistently improve accuracy. at best 0.5 moa. there is a weapon-ammunition system and in order to increase accuracy, it is necessary to bring the whole complex to mind.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 29 December 2017 16: 49 New
        +4
        So I do not interfere with accuracy and accuracy. drinks
        The "complex" even AKS74U was enough for me to shoot at "excellent" The control firing exercise, designed for AKMS and AKS. That is, in the USSR there was an order with cartridges, definitely! laughing drinks
        1. Korax71
          Korax71 31 December 2017 04: 01 New
          0
          I’m already an adult uncle and I don’t believe in fairy tales. The last target in the VKS is the infantry attacking group. What is the range to it ??? especially from Aksu. One single barrel in the entire military district, of course, with a bunch of sniper rifles, could get caught. But it an exception, not a rule.
  8. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 28 December 2017 18: 27 New
    +4
    To the question of the quality of manufacture of cartridges in the series:

    Cartridges are taken from one pack (or rather, from the remainder of this pack). The difference in landing a bullet in a sleeve is up to 1.5 mm.
    © Ulanov
    Tailor Barnaul in all its glory.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 29 December 2017 19: 40 New
      0
      I remember how our sniper - sniper cartridges (7N1) rolled away ...
    2. CooL_SnipeR
      CooL_SnipeR 1 January 2018 13: 20 New
      0
      Barnaulsky should have been flying up into the air for a long time ... Such a canoe not only in combat, but also in hunting and injuries ... It seems that instead of assembly machines there are drunk wipers
  9. Operator
    Operator 28 December 2017 20: 18 New
    +3
    The administration of the VO portal did the right thing that posted this article in the “Opinions” section - Dvoryaninov, maybe as a technical writer, but as a developer of ammunition for standard weapons of 7,62x54, 7,62x39 and 5,45x39 mm calibers corresponding full-time calibers of potential opponents of the USSR / RF.

    Dvoryaninov's sentiments about the world's best "sniper" cartridge 7Н40 with accuracy of single shots at the level of 2 MOA are generally beyond logic.
    1. Mrdnv
      28 December 2017 22: 42 New
      0
      Quote: Operator
      It may be good as a technical writer, but as a developer of ammunition for standard weapons of 7,62x54, 7,62x39 and 5,45x39 mm calibers would exceed the capabilities of the corresponding standard calibers of potential opponents of the USSR / RF.


      Quote: Operator
      Dvoryaninov's sentiments about the world's best "sniper" cartridge 7Н40 with accuracy of single shots at the level of 2 MOA are generally beyond logic.


      Facts are very stubborn things, however.
    2. Deck
      Deck 30 December 2017 13: 58 New
      +2
      You will not praise yourself - no one will praise!
  10. HEATHER
    HEATHER 28 December 2017 20: 34 New
    +1
    Absolutely awesome people. Great thanks to them for what they were and are. No one, not even the Bydlovian NATO countries, have any doubts about this.
  11. Felix99
    Felix99 29 December 2017 10: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: Anyone
    2. What year do you know now? I think you were stuck in 1980. Already 30 years of commercials, we do not give out to the people of the world (your thesaurus) weapons. Well, or give away no more than the United States. But something is not visible worldwide trend towards replacing AK.

    For some reason, the United States distributes to the people of Holland precisely AK and precisely Bulgarian production, although they could have Turkish AR.
  12. viktorch
    viktorch 29 December 2017 15: 44 New
    +1
    At one time, I was expecting that the Americans, having stretched with their duplex, would switch to a 20mm guided grenade system + smoothbore machine with sub-caliber opereniki, or a smooth-bore sniper barrel calibers + adjustable ammunition, but it seems that the gain from this business was not a little drained on the usual ammunition.
  13. Dedall
    Dedall 29 December 2017 22: 18 New
    +1
    The main problem of domestic ammunition is not in the design and materials, but in gunpowder. I saw how men from TsSN used our cartridges with "Nobel" gunpowder and how this increased accuracy. As for the essence of this article, I would like to know about the history of the "Makarov" 9x18 mm. After all, there were also examples of normal weapons with a 9-mm caliber for “pair” and “kurtz”.
  14. Shelest2000
    Shelest2000 31 December 2017 20: 50 New
    +1
    Interesting article, thanks. I didn’t even know that work was underway to improve accuracy with 5,45. It would be interesting to shoot a series with 40s ...
    That's just our gunpowder is very dirty. Apparently the cost of changing the technology is too "expensive" for the current system, they say, it will do that ... Yes, and for civilian cartridges the workmanship, to put it mildly, is lame, alas ...