Military Review

A little about Stalin. From the memoirs of Lyubov Orlova

313
A little about Stalin. From the memoirs of Lyubov Orlova



From the memoirs of Lyubov Orlova:
November 2 1961 years

What I can? I would put a monument to Him, only who will give it to me? Mean, mean people! A thousand times to write this word, it will still be not enough to express their meanness. All the curses of the world is not enough to express my opinion about them, villains who betrayed their Leader! Who would they be without Him? When Stalin was alive, they didn’t know how to flatter, they cringe in front of him, they cringe. And now - triumph! Trying to defeat the dead after death. Mean and disgusting! We started with a condemnation, which gave a sort of "secret" to the prudes. Closed report! This is ridiculous! Or it was done on purpose, because all the secrets are spreading like lightning in our country. They defamed, removed the monuments, tried to erase the name from everywhere, where possible. But this was not enough for them. They are afraid of Him even dead, otherwise they would not have taken out of the Mausoleum. Secretly!

The biggest mystery, which has remained a mystery to me, is an extraordinary combination of incredible greatness with human sincerity and simplicity in Stalin. Never again have I met people who were both simple and majestic at the same time. Family legends say that both of these properties were inherent in Leo Tolstoy, but I can not judge. I can only judge what I saw with my own eyes.

I was always amazed by the great power that lay in this low, seemingly simple person. At first sight! Only at first! But Stalin kept himself very simply, without any fancying. So, probably, all people possessing internal power behave.

He was easy to communicate, did not draw at all, but everyone saw him as a Leader. A huge force came from Him, but this force did not oppress, did not crush, but, on the contrary, inspired, inspired, encouraged to do something good, prompted to accomplishments. It was a very special person, a man of exceptional talents, of exceptional strength. These are born rarely, once in a hundred years, or even less. And with all of his greatest (I’m not afraid of that word) virtues, Stalin was exceptionally, surprisingly modest. The cult, about which they speak so much now, was not created by Him, but by different sycophants.

I often recall and tell a lot about this incident that happened in Chelyabinsk at the Stalin tractor plant. I can not ignore him here. After the concert, the plant workers promised me to increase the production of piston rings to our next meeting, which was to take place very soon, after my return from Magnitogorsk. The workers kept their promise and in memory of this they gave me a piston ring with an inscription. About this case, even a poem was written.
Returning to Moscow, I showed this ring to Stalin. He really liked this gift. Witty and very correct idea. Stalin carefully read the inscription on the ring and thought. I waited for He to tell me.

“The state approach of the Chelyabinsk comrades,” said Stalin, and cautiously, as if afraid of breaking, put the ring on the table. - Well done. So must the Soviet people. The actress Orlova is pleased, the plant team is pleased, I am pleased to know that there are such people in Chelyabinsk, and also to the state. Probably, it is necessary to prohibit giving artists flowers? Better give such gifts ...

I smiled, realizing that Stalin was joking.

“Let us leave the flowers alone,” Stalin continued after a short pause. - You can't do without flowers, they create a festive mood. But the initiative is good, it is necessary to distribute. Who is the director of the Chelyabinsk tractor?

He called some name, it seems, on the letter "L". I was once again amazed at the phenomenal memory of Stalin. So remember everything!

And the more you can not judge by the pattern of a man like Stalin! And what template? Who are trying to expose Stalin, some "contemporaries"? (I deliberately take this word in quotation marks to emphasize my attitude towards them.) From somewhere came an image in which almost all human vices were collected. The expression “personality cult” is invented. Many slanderers appeared ... Insolent incompetent (I do not remember who said this, but the expression is exact). They would think about the lack of talent, but they all blamed on Stalin! Stalin prevented them from taking place, to realize themselves! No matter how wrong!

Sometimes I can not restrain myself. I know that they will not understand me, that they will begin to whisper behind my back, but nevertheless I cannot fail to say what I think, I cannot help but besiege the slanderer. And today in the theater after the meeting, having heard how V. [It is possible that V. is VP Maretskaya] rant about the "personality cult" and my "sufferings", I with all the malice that only I could squeeze out of myself , wondered what she meant by “suffering”? Four Stalin Prizes? Three orders? The title of folk artist?

Speaking with me, Stalin repeatedly mentioned that every person should be judged by his deeds. This is the materialistic approach characteristic of all communists.

G.V. [G.V. - the second husband, Lyubov Orlov, G. V. Alexandrov] often recalls how, in 1928, Stalin instructed them to trio before leaving for America.

- It was as if an experienced director, a wise senior comrade, was talking to us.

Before going abroad, Stalin advised to make a trip to the Soviet Union, to visit the great construction sites of that time, to visit the fields, including the virgin ones, which had just begun to be developed. See, understand, feel, breathe, how the Soviet country lives, so that there, abroad, be able to compare. Very good advice.

Not only is the person measured, but also in relation to people, especially to those who depend on him or obey him. Stalin was always polite with people. With all, without exception, from the closest associates, marshals, commissars to the maids and drivers. Harsh (but not rude, do not confuse harshness with rudeness!) Stalin became only with those who did not justify his trust or bored him with personal requests. Stalin himself was humble and valued modesty in others.

Speaking of art, Stalin certainly stressed that art should be class, party, Marxist-Leninist. Art outside the partisanship for Stalin did not exist. He was genuinely surprised and genuinely indignant when he witnessed a different approach.

First of all, he appreciated practical properties in everything, and then beauty. He did not neglect beauty, always remembered her, but did not make a cult out of her, did not chase after external gloss, did not like bright, catchy things. That particular style inherent in Him was the style of the era of great accomplishments that our country was experiencing at that time, it was a new Soviet style. At the head of this style were practicality and moderation. Beauty and all external effects in general were given second place. The second. Not the last, but the second. The subordination of the beauty of practicality did not diminish the impression, but, on the contrary, strengthened it.

“Any leadership is a collective matter,” Stalin repeated more than once. - All merits and accomplishments are not individual, they belong to the team, and not to one person. Sole mistakes and mistakes are the only ones.

Modesty was one of the main qualities of Stalin. Everything in his daily life was simple - simple clothes, simple furniture, simple food. But even in this simplicity, Stalin’s greatness was felt. True greatness does not need to be emphasized. Simplicity is the best background for it. It creates a kind of contrast, emphasizing, enhancing the impression.

Remembering Stalin now, I understand that 39 year became for him a milestone, an important, significant milestone. People change gradually. We do not notice the individual strokes, we notice when the whole picture changes. And sometimes you come to some conclusions later, when you start to remember and compare. So I, much later, relying on my memories, realized that in 40, Stalin became more restrained, stingy on judgments and forecasts. Then I didn’t catch the essence of the changes, writing them off for fatigue, now for mood, and now I understand that the burden of responsibility on His shoulders was becoming heavier, and therefore certain changes occurred. But never, never, for all the time, did Stalin complain that his burden was unbearable, that he was tired, and so on. He did not complain of fatigue at all. Could mention her in passing, in passing.

Stalin always thought about business. Full rest did not know. Sometimes, during our conversation, I took a pencil and paper and quickly wrote down the thought that had come at that moment. It was felt that Stalin's mind was always busy with something. He could simultaneously discuss one thing and think of another. Unusual, great man.

Stalin spoke much less about the past, incomparably less than about the future. He looked ahead, as befits the Leader.
Too huge, immense scale personality.

With anyone not to compare Stalin, the comparison will always be in His favor. Whatever some may say now.
Author:
Originator:
http://matveychev-oleg.livejournal.com/5828515.html
313 comments
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  1. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 28 December 2017 06: 13 New
    44
    Too huge, immense scale personality.
    and there’s nothing to add!
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 28 December 2017 08: 26 New
      37
      The actress! And I thought --- in essence! From the current more often garbage and slander, but theft is observed! Yes, all sorts of distortions
      1. Vend
        28 December 2017 08: 59 New
        +2
        Quote: Reptiloid
        The actress! And I thought --- in essence! From the current more often garbage and slander, but theft is observed! Yes, all sorts of distortions

        Well, do not generalize, not from all the same.
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 28 December 2017 09: 47 New
          25
          Today in modern cinema they show Stalin as a bloody and cruel tyrant, they try to convey the injustice of that time, but my father told me how people cried when Stalin died because they loved him.
          Do not be lazy, look at YouTube old chronicle, a selection of videos about Stalin, and there you will see a very positive face and kind eyes instead of a tyrant. Therefore, everything said by Orlova seems to be true.
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 28 December 2017 11: 34 New
            19
            The figure of Stalin will forever remain in history, despite the tons of lies that have been dumped on him.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWg2mr9_6nQ
            1. Dead duck
              Dead duck 28 December 2017 12: 02 New
              19
              Quote: badens1111
              The figure of Stalin will forever remain in history, despite the tons of lies that have been dumped on him.

              Ivan the Terrible also remained ... only in the same way they slandered at the most indulge ...
              The last real Russian Tsar.
              1. Tula gingerbread
                Tula gingerbread 28 December 2017 14: 37 New
                +4
                This is true. There was an article, as it seemed to be called - about the history of Russophobia, there just about Ivan the Terrible.
              2. reg
                reg 28 December 2017 15: 37 New
                +2
                Quote: Deadush
                Ivan the Terrible also remained ... only in the same way they slandered at the most indulge ...
                The last real Russian Tsar.

                The last Moscow Grand Duke.
                And the first Russian (all Russia) king.
                The last Russian Tsar was Peter 1.
                1. Dead duck
                  Dead duck 28 December 2017 18: 28 New
                  15
                  Peter from the Romanovs - Boyar.
                  And Ivan the Terrible of the Rurikovich.
                  Therefore, the last one.
                  Many of the geyropeyskie kings of that time, by his nobility, were not suitable for him.
                2. Tula gingerbread
                  Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 16 New
                  +4
                  There is no wrong Grozny is not the first, and before him they called kings. Somewhere it is recorded with me. In my opinion, Ivan the Third was called the king.
              3. Doliva63
                Doliva63 28 December 2017 18: 22 New
                12
                Terrible to me somehow pohren. Under Stalin, my parents lived. Under Stalin everything was built, due to which we still live. And Grozny - letters on paper. I don’t argue, he earned a place in history, but in our life Stalin’s legacy is closer and more important.
                1. Dead duck
                  Dead duck 28 December 2017 18: 31 New
                  13
                  Quote: Doliva63
                  Terrible to me somehow pohren.

                  hi
                  So history and memory are profound ... like countries.
                  Under him, the formation of the empire began.
                  1. reg
                    reg 28 December 2017 18: 55 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Deadush
                    Under him, the formation of the empire began.

                    Empire, this is such a state system in which people, ordinary, ordinary, live badly. Remember this just in case. Before regretting the "end of the empire."
                    1. Dead duck
                      Dead duck 28 December 2017 19: 00 New
                      13
                      Quote: reg
                      Before regretting the "end of the empire."

                      No need to distort. And the concept of "empire" is different ... like the fact that Russia now has been laid down under it.
                      1. reg
                        reg 28 December 2017 20: 25 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Deadush
                        And the concept of "empire" is different ... like that

                        Nope. Empire, it is in Africa, empire.
                        Quote: Deadush
                        Russia now has been laid under him.

                        Yeah. The creation of the world from the Dzhugashvilevsky "socialism" has occurred.
                        Meanwhile, this same "socialism" has existed only for 64 of the year. And before him (before 1927), Russia had only some 7435 years (from the creation of the world). But they mean nothing, right?
                        It is time for the Stalinists to already understand that "socialism" is just a moment in the history of Russia. Unpleasant, painful, even in places disastrous. But still, a moment. 0,85% of the time if you count as our ancestors thought. From the creation of the world.
                  2. Doliva63
                    Doliva63 30 December 2017 19: 07 New
                    +6
                    I don’t argue. And I remember the story. But Stalin is simply closer - both historically and financially - his legacy can be felt. Like Lenin. Computers work from electricity, which before socialism in the "empire" did not exist.
                  3. leo1946
                    leo1946 10 January 2018 17: 40 New
                    0
                    BECOMING, literacy.
                2. The comment was deleted.
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            1. badens1111
              badens1111 28 December 2017 15: 47 New
              15
              Quote: reg
              Do not be lazy, look in RuNet scans of execution lists signed personally by Dzhugashvili. Flayer orders and instructions

              Only those like you, but all kinds of olgovichs, believe in these fakes of yours.
              And as regards realities, no matter how you try, and you won’t be able to cross out the name of Stalin from the History of Russia., Not a hat over, as the Russian proverb says
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 28 December 2017 19: 09 New
                  15
                  Lies to which all kinds of victims of the Unified State Exam operate, do not become "true", so your dirt does not stick to Stalin.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. kush62
                    kush62 28 December 2017 20: 25 New
                    0
                    badens1111 Today, 19: 09 ↑ New
                    Lies to which all kinds of victims of the Unified State Exam operate, do not become "true", so your dirt does not stick to Stalin.

                    In the discussion of each article, "victims of the exam," Maybe a little read books, you look and the vocabulary will increase.
                    1. Tula gingerbread
                      Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 18 New
                      +4
                      Read for yourself Svanidze, Koch, Gozman, Amnuel and I. Chubais.
                      1. kush62
                        kush62 29 December 2017 09: 26 New
                        0
                        Tula gingerbread Today, 08:18 ↑ New
                        Read for yourself Svanidze, Koch, Gozman, Amnuel and I. Chubais.

                        What a connoisseur of books of all evil spirits. Shale or what?
                    2. badens1111
                      badens1111 30 December 2017 17: 07 New
                      0
                      Quote: kush62
                      vocabulary will increase.

                      Well, it doesn’t help you, you can lie, don’t take it away, but now look, THIS is the FSB’s saying, so you need to keep quiet.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rV7MoGAnP8
                      1. kush62
                        kush62 31 December 2017 08: 25 New
                        0
                        badens1111 Yesterday, 17:07 ↑
                        Quote: kush62
                        vocabulary will increase.
                        Well, it doesn’t help you, you can lie, don’t take it away, but now look, THIS is the FSB’s saying, so you need to keep quiet.

                        Vocabulary is needed for competent communication. And your EGE, EGE and EGE. Read Ilf and Petrov, you can find your prototype in the face of Ellochka.
                    3. badens1111
                      badens1111 31 December 2017 10: 53 New
                      0
                      Quote: kush62
                      In the discussion of each article, "victims of the exam," Maybe a little read books, you look and the vocabulary will increase.

                      kush62,
                      Your vocabulary is similar to the notorious Ellochka. The meaning of phrases and the promise of opinion. Destroyed.
                      So uzbagayetsya, Unified State Examination, it is in Africa Unified State Examination and to you fully applies.
                      1. kush62
                        kush62 31 December 2017 12: 00 New
                        0
                        badens1111 Today, 10: 53 ↑ New
                        Quote: kush62
                        In the discussion of each article, "victims of the exam," Maybe a little read books, you look and the vocabulary will increase.
                        kush62,
                        Your vocabulary is similar to the notorious Ellochka. The meaning of phrases and the promise of opinion. Destroyed.
                        So uzbagayetsya, Unified State Examination, it is in Africa Unified State Examination and to you fully applies.

                        In the words of others. like a flea in the balls.
                2. saturn.mmm
                  saturn.mmm 28 December 2017 19: 20 New
                  +5
                  Quote: reg
                  Dzhugashvili, robber-raider of the Russian Empire,

                  He was the leader of the battle group of the Bolshevik party, there is no evidence of personal participation, a friend of Ter-Petrosyan who was the leader of the Tiflis cell.
                  1. reg
                    reg 28 December 2017 19: 25 New
                    +2
                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    He was the leader of the battle group of the Bolshevik Party, there are no facts of personal participation.

                    For whom he and his gang of box office robbed, is that of fundamental importance?
                    And he was sent to hard labor for charity?
                    1. saturn.mmm
                      saturn.mmm 28 December 2017 22: 08 New
                      +1
                      Quote: reg
                      For whom he and his gang of box office robbed, is that of fundamental importance?

                      This is a dirty spot on the Bolshevik party, in addition to their criminal activity, they attracted minors.
                      The Bolsheviks did not fulfill their promises, did not give the factory workers and the land to the peasants, with their expropriatory policies created the conditions that thousands of talented and enterprising engineers such as Sikorsky left the country, it is ridiculous to listen to the fact that Stalin took the country from the plow, the Russian Empire was one of the leaders on the fundamental science of that time. Well, if you really want to, then Russians can deify the hypocrite of all times and nationalities.
                      1. twviewer
                        twviewer 28 December 2017 22: 38 New
                        +4
                        how anti-Soviet are primitive and boring, equal others in their wretchedness, and they lie, they lie ... it seems that they are only to ourselves :)
                      2. reg
                        reg 28 December 2017 22: 40 New
                        +3
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        The Bolsheviks did not fulfill their promises, did not give the factory workers and land to the peasants.

                        Then I would argue with you a little.
                        The fact is that the "old Bolsheviks" (RCP (b) schnicks), they gave land to the peasants. Rather, they did not take it away. After the peasants in the village themselves divided landowner land. It is clear that all sorts of "authoritative villagers" received its (land) lion's share. So a subclass of “kulaks” appeared in the village.
                        Is it good or bad, but the farms of the middle peasants and kulaks fed the USSR very well. Much better than the landowners under the king and collective farms later, later.
                        The factories were different. Through their various concessions, their RCP (b) schnicks tried to lease to the bourgeoisie. Very rarely with success. They did not want to distribute them to the workers, because in the end the bourgeois would buy these plants for a penny. The same workers. As it was in the early 90's.
                        Actually, this is a very difficult question. And the distribution of factories to workers with the subsequent purchase by foreigners, this also makes considerable sense. Everything is better than they will stand and rust, as with the RCP (b) schnicks in the early 20s.
                        Everything could be better. Maybe the USSR would have entered the mainstream of normal development. But in 1924 Ulyanov died. And at the end of 1925 the "new Bolsheviks" (VKP (b) schnicks) became very strong. And at the end of 1927 they defeated the RCP (b) schnicks completely.
                        This was a disaster, because from that moment Dzhugashvili began to build a regime of personal and unlimited power. And as a former seminarian, he understood that strong power can only be within the framework of a totalitarian ideology. As a result, a totalitarian sect was created throughout the USSR. With its pseudo-religion-ideology, it was called Marxism-Leninism. Residents of the USSR were deprived of all property except personal. Those. from the point of view of classical political economy were turned into slaves. Slaves of the sect. In addition to this, they were turned into slaves at the legislative level. For unauthorized withdrawal from an enterprise of any form of ownership (there was such a joke in the USSR), criminal liability lay. And even for the unauthorized departure from FZU for 14 year old "criminals" she also relied. Abortion was also prohibited and criminalized, there should have been as many slaves as possible.
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        with their expropriatory policies created the conditions that thousands of talented and enterprising engineers like Sikorsky left the country

                        These were the lucky ones. First wave. Then the Bolsheviks built an iron curtain and planted runners from 10 years to VMN. And the relatives of both successful and unsuccessful runners had to prove that they were not in the know. Otherwise, trouble.
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        it is ridiculous to listen to the fact that Stalin took the country from plow, the Russian Empire was one of the leaders in fundamental science of that time.

                        A leader, not a leader, but by 1941 the USSR turned into a complete crap. Where they could not do even the most basic things. Those. degradation in all areas was just wild. And only after the war, on the captured technology base of the USSR, this lag was slightly reduced. And Lend-Lease during the war, too, but not so much. But all this is not for long. Somewhere from the 60s, it all started again, so that system was arranged. And in the early 90s, everything burst.
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Well, if you really want to, then Russians can deify the hypocrite of all times and nationalities.

                        We must treat them condescendingly. At least until they are aggressive. These are victims of a totalitarian sect. The most real.
                      3. badens1111
                        badens1111 29 December 2017 10: 56 New
                        +3
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Well, if you really want to

                        You pile dirt on Russia and its outstanding rulers.
                        Well, here is a misfortune for you, yours, such as Nikolai Romanov, yes, Gorbachev and Yeltsin are steadily considered by the people to be insignificant creatures, and the names of Grozny and Stalin go to the highest degree, as the most worthy Rulers of the Russian Land.
                      4. AllXVahhaB
                        AllXVahhaB 30 December 2017 16: 52 New
                        +4
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        they didn’t give the factory to the workers and land to the peasants,

                        And to whom did they give them? Landowners and capitalists?
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        with their expropriatory policies created the conditions that thousands of talented and enterprising engineers like Sikorsky left the country

                        Everyone speaks of thousands, but no one names a single name except Sikorsky))) And instead, dozens of Tupolevs, Ilyushins, Mikoyans, Yakovlevs, Korolevs, Sukhikhs, Antonovs and many others grew up! What was not close in the Republic of Ingushetia, since even in the defense industry the lion's share of the products was purchased over the hill! Even a sufficient number of squirrels for the army could not be produced and placed an order in the USA!
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        The Russian Empire was one of the leaders in fundamental science of the time.

                        Proofs to the studio !!! For example, nobel. RI has 2 prizes in medicine: Pavlov and Mechnikov. All! The USSR: Chemistry - Semenov, Physics: Cherenkov, Tamm, Frank, Basov, Prokhorov, Kapitsa, and modern Alferov, Abrikosov, Ginzburg and Novoselov received them for their work from the time of the USSR!
                        Yes, that there is fundamental science. The Bolsheviks, elementary, taught the whole country to read and write! What does it take in a few years! And your crystal bakery empire was in last place in Europe in terms of literacy and this is in the 20th century! So do not make laugh advanced science in RI ...
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Well, if you really want to, then Russians can deify the hypocrite of all times and nationalities.

                        And what is his hypocrisy expressed in?
              2. The comment was deleted.
                1. SERGUS
                  SERGUS 11 January 2018 11: 48 New
                  0
                  Quote: leo1946
                  ask any schoolboy who is shoe polish?
                  Surprise the bits and pieces of the story.

                  Ask any schoolboy who Putin is, hear - he is our everything, the Americans are afraid of him. And ask students about Yeltsin, Nicholas II ...
            2. Dart2027
              Dart2027 28 December 2017 17: 13 New
              10
              Quote: reg
              scans of execution lists signed personally by Dzhugashvili’s hand

              You know, any lie should have a reasonable limit. But there was nothing for the head of a huge state to do except to personally deal with such dregs?
              1. reg
                reg 28 December 2017 17: 25 New
                +2
                Quote: Dart2027
                You know, any lie should have a reasonable limit.

                Do you think it's time to end the fairy tales "about the good leader Yoshu"?
                Quote: Dart2027
                You know, any lie should have a reasonable limit.

                And in RuNet rummage weakly? At least here: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%
                D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D1%80%
                D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D
                0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BA%D
                0% B8
                Quote: Dart2027
                But there was nothing for the head of a huge state to do except to personally deal with such dregs?

                This question is not for me, this is a question for him.
                Moreover, these were not lists of locksmiths and collective farmers.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 28 December 2017 18: 27 New
                  +6
                  Quote: reg
                  You think it's time to finish the tales
                  "When they say about the monarch that he is kind, that means he’s not suited to hell."
                  Quote: reg
                  At least here
                  About the Memorial society, I am in the know. As well as about the fact that just the execution article cries for them.
                  Quote: reg
                  This question is not for me, this is a question for him.
                  In the sense of a clear answer, no?
                  1. reg
                    reg 28 December 2017 19: 02 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    "When they say about the monarch that he is kind, that means he’s not suited to hell."

                    But do you know any other state devices besides authoritarian and totalitarian?
                    Just in case, I remind you, in March 1917 a bourgeois revolution took place in Russia. And with the normal course of events around the 30s, it should already have become a prosperous European country.
                    And what do we see in reality at that time? And then, until the beginning of the 90s? Better not even remember ...
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    About the society "Memorial" I am in the know.

                    And where does the society "Memorial"?
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    As well as about the fact that just the execution article cries for them.

                    Look, cry out. And on your own head in the first place.
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    In the sense of a clear answer, no?

                    I mean, the question is not addressed.
                    You are somehow not very good with understanding.
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 28 December 2017 19: 12 New
                      +4
                      Quote: reg
                      Just in case, I remind you, in March 1917 a bourgeois revolution took place in Russia. And with the normal course of events around the 30s, it should already have become a prosperous European country.

                      If, perhaps, the grandmother would be a grandfather, did you decide to try to rewrite History? Oh .. well, naive ... Who taught you the history of brewers with Chubais?
                      Quote: reg
                      Look, cry out. And on your own head in the first place.

                      No, yours. For anyone like you, pouring dirt on the History of Russia, a priori in Russia cannot be considered his own.
                      Quote: reg
                      You are somehow not very good with understanding.

                      You don’t have any understanding at all, USE ...
                      1. reg
                        reg 28 December 2017 19: 16 New
                        +2
                        Quote: badens1111
                        did you decide to try to rewrite History?

                        What for? History just needs to be known. And to you as well.
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Who taught you the history of brewers with Chubais?

                        And what other "bad surnames" do you know?
                        Quote: badens1111
                        No, on yours.

                        Those that are your predecessors, they thought so too. Then they suffered, who did not last long, and who long.
                        Quote: badens1111
                        For anyone like you, pouring dirt on the History of Russia, a priori in Russia cannot be considered his own.

                        In fact, the USSR is not its own for Russia.
                        Learn the story.
                        Quote: badens1111
                        You don’t have any understanding at all, USE ...

                        Evening school of working youth taxis?
                      2. badens1111
                        badens1111 29 December 2017 10: 58 New
                        +1
                        Quote: reg
                        What for? History just needs to be known.

                        You do not know her, and the rehash of Solzhenitsyn and his ilk have nothing to do with history.
                        Quote: reg
                        In fact, the USSR is not its own for Russia.

                        The West would like this so much for those who serve the interests of the West, and for those who know their History, the USSR is Historical Russia in its geopolitical and geographical limits.
                    2. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 28 December 2017 20: 10 New
                      +1
                      Quote: reg
                      Both Roosevelt, Churchill, and de Gaulle, as it turned out after their death, spoke very much and very warmly about Dzhugashvili. There will be relays to relay something.
                      That is nothing to say?
                      Quote: reg
                      But do you know any other state devices besides authoritarian and totalitarian?
                      No, I haven’t seen one.
                      Quote: reg
                      she should have become a prosperous European country.
                      But is there democracy in Europe? And where is she?
                      Quote: reg
                      And where does the society "Memorial"?
                      Have you read what you are referring to?
                      Quote: reg
                      Look, cry out. And on your own head in the first place.
                      I have been hearing these screams for a long time, though the louder they shout, the less faith they have.
                      Quote: reg
                      I mean, the question is not addressed.
                      That is, there is still no answer.
                      1. reg
                        reg 28 December 2017 20: 30 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is nothing to say?

                        So said the hell it. Do not you understand?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        No, I haven’t seen one.

                        My condolences to you.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But is there democracy in Europe? And where is she?

                        Why do you need it? Want to eliminate?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Have you read what you are referring to?

                        Actually on Wikipedia.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I have been hearing these screams for a long time, though the louder they shout, the less faith they have.

                        When "faith" appears, it will be too late.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, there is still no answer.

                        Do you understand very badly? How many times should I write to you that the question is not addressed?
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                    3. AllXVahhaB
                      AllXVahhaB 30 December 2017 17: 05 New
                      +3
                      Quote: reg
                      in March 1917, a bourgeois revolution took place in Russia. And with the normal course of events around the 30s, it should already have become a prosperous European country.

                      How familiar! Everything in Europe and in lace shorts! laughing
                      Quote: reg
                      And what do we see in reality at that time? And then, until the beginning of the 90s? Better not even remember ...

                      Did you live at that time? And do you think in the early 90's paradise came?
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Tula gingerbread
                    Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 21 New
                    +3
                    When it comes to the data of Memorial, and there are people of a certain orientation and financing, then you can not read further.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
              2. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 29 December 2017 07: 51 New
                +1
                Quote: reg
                Rather, they did not take it away

                Until they realized that it would not work to constantly milk the peasants.
                Quote: reg
                So a subclass of “kulaks” appeared in the village.

                Wealthy peasants (fists) were even before the revolution.
                Quote: reg
                Actually, this is a very difficult question.

                Certainly complex, but the slogan "Factory Worker" was, and as they say, the word is not a sparrow ...
                Quote: reg
                And at the end of 1925 the "new Bolsheviks" (VKP (b) schnicks) became very strong.

                New with old holes, a banal squabble inside the party for power after the death of the leader.
                Quote: reg
                Leader, not leader

                I wrote "one of the leaders" and that was so.
                Quote: reg
                and by 1941, the USSR turned into a complete crap.

                Perhaps they caught on to the beginning of the 30s, by 41 the situation could not be called sediment.
                Quote: reg
                degradation in all areas was just wild. And only after the war, on the captured technology base of the USSR, this lag was slightly reduced. And Lend-Lease during the war, too, but not so much. But all this is not for long. Somewhere from the 60s, it all started again, so that system was arranged. And in the early 90s, everything burst.

                Here I do not agree with you, the trophy base certainly helped, but like the Americans, the fundamental science in the USSR was corrected after the war. By the 90s, not the fundamental science was degraded, but the Communist Party, and in the 90s there was no funding, no science.
              3. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 29 December 2017 16: 01 New
                +1
                Quote: badens1111
                You pile dirt on Russia and its outstanding rulers.

                Where did I throw dirt at Russia? Rulers and Russia are not the same thing.
                About Grozny I have not a single word, God be his judge, it has long been.
                Quote: badens1111
                Yes, here’s the trouble for you, yours, like Nikolai Romanov, yes Gorbachev and Yeltsin

                I also did not write anything about these, you are gluing something incomprehensible to me.
                Quote: badens1111
                Grozny and Stalin go to the highest degree, as the most worthy Rulers of the Russian Land.

                I do not consider Stalin the most worthy ruler of the Russian Land, but I am not a hater of Russia, I like Russia. I have many friends and relatives in Russia.
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 29 December 2017 16: 31 New
                  0
                  Quote: saturn.mmm
                  but I am not a hater of Russia

                  Don't make excuses. You are.
                  Quote: saturn.mmm
                  Rulers and Russia are not the same thing.

                  You should study, study and study again, otherwise you will write nonsense. There is a GOVERNOR, Russia stands, there is no ruler, a disaster.
                  1. saturn.mmm
                    saturn.mmm 31 December 2017 18: 40 New
                    +1
                    Quote: badens1111
                    Don't make excuses

                    How do I make excuses?
                    Quote: badens1111
                    .You are.

                    A decent person will not write like that.
                    Quote: badens1111
                    Study, study and study again,

                    How did the great Lenin bequeath?
                    Quote: badens1111
                    . There is a ruler, Russia stands, there is no ruler, disaster.
                    .
                    Some rulers gathered Russia, others squandered it, what the Communists did at the end of the 20th century is akin to the time of troubles.
              4. AllXVahhaB
                AllXVahhaB 30 December 2017 17: 00 New
                0
                Quote: Dart2027
                You know, any lie should have a reasonable limit. But there was nothing for the head of a huge state to do except to personally deal with such dregs?

                Come on you. Everyone knows that he also shot them personally !!!
            3. GAF
              GAF 28 December 2017 17: 20 New
              +5
              Quote: reg
              Can you imagine a robber raider with a positive face and kind eyes?

              Citizen, the day passed as he registered on the site, and began with a stool of a primitive "liberal" sense "product."
              1. reg
                reg 28 December 2017 17: 27 New
                +1
                Quote: GAF
                and began with the stool of a primitive liberal-style "product."

                Woof, is this a occupation? Everyday activities?
                1. Tula gingerbread
                  Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 22 New
                  +2
                  Yours Undoubtedly.
          3. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 December 2017 11: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: Stas157
            Therefore, everything Orlova said seems to be true.

            Yes, yes, such a sincere, kind, honest! yes
            Stalin at the 17th congress of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks (the congress of the "executed") declared to the whole world:
            Poverty in the village has disappeared. Any peasant, collective farmer or individual farmer, now has the opportunity live humanly,
            The eradication of poverty in the countryside - these are historical achievements in material the situation of the working people, which the workers and peasants of the most “democratic” bourgeois countries cannot even dream of.

            It was recognized in January 1934 of the year. Just, in 1933 starvation died from starvation in the countryabout 7 million people (there was also cannibalism, corpse eating, etc., unprecedented in the history of Russia)! Fellow citizens, by the way, a speaker. Not all are buried.
            NOR words of sympathy and condolences, NO acknowledgment of the fact, NO acknowledgment of errors (criminal or rather), NOTHING! Only lie about the prosperity of the peasants.
            Such is "sincerity" and "honesty."
            Orlova is excusable, but not to others.
            1. SERGUS
              SERGUS 30 December 2017 12: 42 New
              +1
              Quote: Olgovich
              Only a lie about the prosperity of the peasants.

              Firstly, in 1934 the famine was still able to be overcome, therefore there is still no lie here, and secondly, if you read the report verbatim without “trimming” the sentences, it looks like this:
              With the disappearance of the kulak bondage poverty in the village disappeared. Any peasant, collective farmer or individual farmer, now has the opportunity to live humanly, if he only wants to work honestlyand not to idle, not to roam and not to plunder collective farm good.

              It is not that everyone in the village has become rich and well-fed, but that now every peasant has the right to earn his living for a decent life, and there is no such thing as a rich gentleman, and 10 hard workers of the peasants who work for him and wear cast-offs.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 30 December 2017 22: 18 New
                +1
                Quote: SERGUS
                Firstly, in 1934, we managed to overcome hunger, so there’s no lie here,

                The congress was in January 34, what did they manage to overcome there, if in January people died too? The report was on SUCCESS 32-33, when 7 million people died. Is it a success? This is not a lie?belay
                Quote: SERGUS
                It is not that everyone in the village has become rich and well-fed, but that now every peasant has the right to earn his living for a decent life, and there is no such thing as a rich gentleman, and 10 hard workers of the peasants who work for him and wear cast-offs.

                No need to translate from Russian into Russian: it is written, "poverty has disappeared." And this is again FALSE.
                1. SERGUS
                  SERGUS 31 December 2017 18: 38 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  The congress was in January 34, what did they manage to overcome there, if in January people died too? The report was on SUCCESS 32-33, when 7 million people died. Is it a success? This is not a lie?

                  Let’s laugh, if, then, the country did not create a strong industry due to grain export, it could have ceased to exist during the Second World War, and this malnutrition and the casualties were not in vain, unlike the victims of the 90s. Plus, many problems in the village were created by people themselves, did not comply with the laws, i.e. refused to hand over grain, as a result there was chaos and confusion. Plus, in the report, it was not advisable for Stalin to talk about victims and mistakes, yes yes, he is not a fool and the loony who painted him, and he understood everything, there were just a lot of followers of Trotsky and others like him in the party.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 1 January 2018 09: 54 New
                    +1
                    Quote: SERGUS
                    Let’s laugh, if, then, the country did not create a strong industry due to grain export, it could have ceased to exist during the Second World War, and this malnutrition and the casualties were not in vain, unlike the victims of the 90s.

                    Where is the confusion over the TRAGEDY, what is the matter with you?
                    Regarding your innumerable “I would” I can say that I’m not interested in divination.
                    Victims in PEACE time, unprecedented in scale ANYWHERE in the world, cannot be justified by anything. And they are caused by the inability to lead the country. This and the reason for the absolute silence of the authorities about this tragedy was tantamount to admitting guilt.
                    Quote: SERGUS
                    Plus, many problems in the village were created by people themselves, did not comply with the laws, i.e. refused to hand over grain, as a result there was chaos and confusion.

                    People are not to blame -Nothing WHAT-to fulfill laws that are impossible in principle, is impossible.
                    Quote: SERGUS
                    . Plus, in the report, it was not advisable for Stalin to talk about victims and mistakes, yes yes, he is not a fool and the loony who painted him, and he understood everything, there were just a lot of followers of Trotsky and others like him in the party.

                    NOBODY spoke about extinct from hunger and cannibalism from the leaders of those vast areas where hunger raged, everyone spoke only about .... successes in the Union of Artists. Is this normal, in your opinion?
                    1. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 3 January 2018 10: 30 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Regarding your innumerable “I would” I can say that I’m not interested in divination.

                      This is not fortunetelling - but foresight, and whoever does not have it is not easy for him to live. We have a different life approach with you, you think that if only today it would be warm and full and tomorrow there would be a flood, I have a different opinion, therefore our assessment of Stalin’s activity does not coincide.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 3 January 2018 12: 50 New
                        +3
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        it’s not fortunetelling — but foresight, and whoever does not have it is not easy for him to live

                        It was fortunetelling, and 7 million who died of starvation did not live at all. Do you think they wanted to live less than you?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        We have a different life approach with you, you think that if only today it would be warm and full and tomorrow there will be a flood, I have a different opinion, therefore our assessment of Stalin’s activity does not coincide.

                        I have something else, if you haven’t noticed: the carefully concealed death of millions in peacetime is not justified by anything. What management perfectly understood, making it a secret. Even EMU did not think of justifying successes with these deaths. This was done only after the 91st year, when the truth was revealed.
                    2. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 5 January 2018 11: 16 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      It was fortunetelling, and 7 million who died of starvation did not live at all. Do you think they wanted to live less than you?

                      This is NOT FAR. In your opinion, it was necessary not to take away grain, not to create industry with money from the sale of grain, let people eat, and only then 7 million but ALL would die, in German gas chambers. Moreover, I repeat, the big mess was because of the people themselves, people themselves hid and did not give the grain.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Do you think they wanted to live less than you?

                      I think that you think how to fill your stomach, and I’m ready to starve for the sake of a happy future for my children and grandchildren. This is because of people like you and did not build communism, we only thought about how to eat and sleep winked
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      I have something else, if you haven’t noticed: the carefully concealed death of millions in peacetime is not justified by anything. What management perfectly understood, making it a secret. Even EMU did not think of justifying successes with these deaths.

                      I agree with you, the fact that the people who died for the industrialization of the country remained in the shadows deplorably and wrongly, but if all those who are against Stalin are RIGHT, then they do not curse the reformer PETER I, who only destroyed a lot during the construction of St. Petersburg people, not to mention so much more?
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      This was done only after the 91st year, when the truth was revealed.

                      And what did this truth give us? Over the 90s, our population decline is much greater than during the reign of Stalin (if you do not take into account the Great Patriotic War), and at the same time we did not have any success in this period, since nobody has reproached Yeltsin for his "quiet peaceful victims" !
                      I repeat, our assessment of Stalin’s activities may not coincide with you, but the best judge is the people, and according to the results of opinion polls, Stalin is always among the first, unlike your truth-loving Yeltsin, who in the 90s discovered the truth and did nothing.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 6 January 2018 07: 49 New
                        +1
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        In your opinion, it was necessary not to take away grain, not to create industry with money from the sale of grain, let people eat, and only then 7 million but ALL would die, in German gas chambers.

                        Of course, DO NOT take away, but - BUY from the peasants. A "select" has a different name -rob. And if you only know how to rob, and not pay, then you as a leader are worthless. If you do not know how to build without robbery and forced labor, you are worthless as a manager. EVERYTHING was built in the 20th century - WITHOUT this.
                        By the way, in 1917, did IT promise the people?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I think it’s you who thinks how to fill your stomach, and I’m for the sake of a happy future for my children and grandchildren ready and starve.

                        Do not starve, but DIE, as about 10% of the country's population died of starvation. Ready? And to see how these same your children and grandchildren die of hunger .-- are you ready too? In order to once in a POSSIBLE (or impossible) future ALIEN children and grandchildren live?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I agree with you, the fact that the people who died for the industrialization of the country remained in the shadows deplorably and wrongly, but if all those who are against Stalin are RIGHT, then they do not curse the reformer PETER I, who only destroyed a lot during the construction of St. Petersburg people, not to mention much more

                        The population was asked: is it ready to DIE for industrialization?
                        More than two centuries have passed since the time of Peter — what are you talking about ?!
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        And what did this truth give us? Over the 90s, our population decline is much greater than during the reign of Stalin (if you do not take into account the Great Patriotic War), and at the same time we did not have any success in this period, since nobody has reproached Yeltsin for his "quiet peaceful victims" !

                        The truth is needed to know why today the people are dying. And to REMEMBER these millions of victims who have neither a monument nor a stella.
                        "Not a single generation of Russians born after 1910 and having entered an active reproductive age, beginning from the era of the “great turning point”, from the late 1920s to the beginning of the 1930s, reproduced itself."Since 1964, Russians have been dying FIRST in Europe, before Germans, French, etc. .. http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/2010/0417/tema02.p
                        hp
                        The Communist Yeltsin, brought up under Stalin, only exacerbated what already existed. He is a criminal.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I repeat, our assessment of Stalin’s activities may not coincide with you, but the best judge is the people, and according to the results of opinion polls, Stalin is always among the first, unlike your truth-loving Yeltsin, who in the 90s discovered the truth and did nothing.

                        Yeltsin is a criminal. As for ratings: I propose to open it for a long time Stalin Centerwhere to lay out -No comments-signed documents, speeches and -FACTS-like the above. And only then can we talk about ratings.
                    3. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 6 January 2018 10: 18 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      The population was asked: is it ready to DIE for industrialization?

                      Come on, if you ask the population about it, the population will say no, we don’t want to, we want work to get less work, sleep and eat. Oleg Peshkov, Anton Erygin, Andrei Timoshenkov and other victims in Syria were asked whether they were ready to die for Syria? It is unlikely that they would scream of course, even now.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      More than two centuries have passed since the time of Peter — what are you talking about ?!

                      You have some kind of double standards, like the Americans, if more than two centuries have passed, then you can forget all the bad things, Peter is a great reformer, if 85 years have passed then you can’t, well, okay, we’ll wait another 150 years and forget all the bad things too, Stalin there will also be a great reformer.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Since 1964, Russians have been dying FIRST in Europe, before Germans, French, etc. .. http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/2010/0417/tema02.p

                      This is the theory of Anatoly Vishnevsky, which has both supporters and opponents, and if we discard the theory and just look not at the replacement coefficients but at more understandable numbers, then we will see that with the exception of 1933 and 1941-1945. in the flesh we had population growth until the 90s.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      As for ratings: I have been proposing to open a Stalin Center for a long time, where to post - WITHOUT comments - documents signed by him, speeches and -FACTS, like the above. And only then can we talk about ratings.

                      I do not want to upset you, but it is unlikely that after all the dirt poured on him, this will radically change something.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 7 January 2018 08: 00 New
                        +1
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Come on, if you ask the population about it, the population will say no, we don’t want to, we want work to get less work, sleep and eat.

                        Since they don’t want to do so, it was necessary to act, i.e. look for OTHER ways! And so, you never know who wakes up, do everything ?! fool
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Oleg Peshkov, Anton Erygin, Andrei Timoshenkov and other victims in Syria were asked whether they were ready to die for Syria? It is unlikely that they would scream of course, even now.

                        They- were ASKED and they -GIVED him, taking the Oath! And the people in 1933 are NOT! Moreover,
                        they were promised a completely different and LIED that all is well! OK for you?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        You have some kind of double standards, like the Americans, if more than two centuries have passed, then you can forget all the bad things, Peter is a great reformer, if 85 years have passed then you can’t, well, okay, we’ll wait another 150 years and forget all the bad things too, Stalin there will also be a great reformer.

                        I’m talking about something else — two hundred years ago — there were OTHER concepts about the acceptability of methods and the rules were different. Peter was the Emperor, and who was Stalin? He, allegedly, spoke on behalf of the people, who did not even ask. By the way, nobody has ever chosen him anywhere.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        This is the theory of Anatoly Vishnevsky, which has both supporters and opponents, and if we discard the theory and just look not at the replacement coefficients but at more understandable numbers, then we will see that with the exception of 1933 and 1941-1945. in the flesh we had population growth until the 90s.

                        This is not a theory, but FACTS and mathematics. The population grew by inertia, due to the potential accumulated earlier, rapidly OLD at the same time.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I do not want to upset you, but it is unlikely that after all the dirt poured on him, this will radically change something.

                        FACTS is, in your opinion, DIRT ?! What's wrong with you? And what to do with them, throw it away, forget what? Speak directly.
                    4. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 8 January 2018 11: 22 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Since they don’t want to do so, it was necessary to act, i.e. look for OTHER ways! And so, you never know who wakes up, do everything ?!

                      Your liberal values: do what you want, do not want to do nothing - this is the road to nowhere, in the 90s we learned it well, and today don’t forget, after a quarter century, we are still sitting on the oil needle. Yes, and time, I repeat, then it was different, if we didn’t gain strength in time, we would simply be torn apart, and you are looking for only momentary benefits. By the way, do not forget that Sukhoi Design Bureau, Uralvagonzavod, and others, of which we are so proud of the technology today were created not by Vladimir Putin, but by the terrible Stalin.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      I’m talking about something else — two hundred years ago — there were OTHER concepts about the acceptability of methods and the rules were different.

                      Stalin, too, did not lead in the 21st century, we only only fell autocracy, where there were, as you say, other rules.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      They- were ASKED and they -GIVED him, taking the Oath! And the people in 1933 are NOT!

                      If you are a citizen of the USSR, you should take care of your country, and not just yourself, but those who thought only of themselves beloved, Lenin sent abroad by ship.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      This is not a theory, but FACTS and mathematics. The population grew by inertia, due to the potential accumulated earlier, rapidly OLD at the same time.

                      The theory and only why there was a surge in fertility in the second half of the 80s, and after the maternal capital introduced by Putin? What is the population sharply younger? In the 90s, on the contrary, the birth rate fell, the population sharply grew old, suddenly. A lot depends not only on the age of the population but also on politics. By the way, an aging population is a trend in many developed countries, so this is not an indicator of poor life.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      FACTS is, in your opinion, DIRT ?! What's wrong with you? And what to do with them, throw it away, forget what? Speak directly.

                      If a person is smeared with mud - this does not mean that he is dirty, perhaps on the contrary, he cleaned the dirt. You don’t need to forget anything, you need to remember and learn from everything, you just need to be a reasonable person and analyze all the facts. Is Stalin perfect ...? Of course not, probably many victims could have been avoided, but you look what time it was, the civil war ended not so long ago, there was no clear centralization of power, there were many opponents in power, however, during the period of his leadership, he built a power system , kept the country from new outbreaks of unrest, led the country to the lead, and finally, under his leadership, the USSR defeated fascism. Yes, somewhere he bent, often innocent people were dragged into this meat grinder. But everything is known by comparison, and Gorbachev, Yeltsin, with their actions and without actions, have killed far more people than Stalin. And Stalin, he just did all the dirty work, he cleaned out all the dirt, he himself got dirty of course, but as they say if you have clean hands, then you didn’t work, and such radishes as Khrushchev came to everything ready, boasted of their companions and poured mud over Stalin .
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 8 January 2018 12: 54 New
                        0
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Your liberal values: do what you want, do not want to do nothing - this is the road to nowhere, in the 90s we learned it well, and today don’t forget, after a quarter century, we are still sitting on the oil needle.

                        The road to nowhere is the death of 7 million people from starvation in the middle of the 20th century in the middle of Europe! They have been sitting on the oil needle since the 1960s to buy GRAIN, as Stalin's collective farms-could not feed the population.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        By the way, do not forget that Sukhoi Design Bureau, Uralvagonzavod, and others, of which we are so proud of the technology today were created not by Vladimir Putin, but by the terrible Stalin.

                        Do not forget that the atomic and space projects of the USSR were created by scientists learned at the IMPERIAL Universities and IMPERIAL teachers, as well as the first diesel submarine, the first telecast in the world, radio, etc., etc., also without Stalin. And WITHOUT millions of deaths. Therefore, Sukhoi and TK would be anyway.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        If you are a citizen of the USSR, you should take care of your country, and not just yourself, but those who thought only of themselves beloved, Lenin sent abroad by ship.

                        A hypocritical lie: NOBODY about the necessity of the death of millions for the sake of industrialization -Do NOT say, on the contrary, impudently LIED about "improving life! fool By the way, you did not answer the question — are you ready to look at the death of your grandchildren from starvation for the sake of industrialization? Why so? When it comes to personally, do you want to live like that? Still would!
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        The theory and only why there was a surge in fertility in the second half of the 80s, and after the maternal capital introduced by Putin? That the population is sharply younger

                        This is not a theory, but the FACTS that you dispute are NOT able to. "Bursts" is 2,1 births: isn’t it funny for you?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        If a person is smeared with mud - this does not mean that he is dirty, perhaps on the contrary, he cleaned the dirt.

                        No, the facts are created by him and no one else.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        but look at what time it was, the civil war ended not so long ago, there was no clear centralization of power, there were many opponents in the government, nevertheless, during the period of his leadership, he built a system of power, kept the country from new outbreaks of unrest, led the country out to the leaders and

                        I repeat: no one has ever elected him anywhere and "save" the country, all the more with the deaths of millions of people, he has not been charged. The people chose-other leaders at the elections. Argue.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Actions and without actions killed much more people than Stalin. And Stalin, he just did all the dirty work, he cleaned out all the dirt, I’ve got dirty myself of course, but as they say if you have clean hands, then you didn’t work,

                        Where, in which country has there been so much “dirt” in history, as you called millions of our fellow citizens ?! How do you even allow yourself to call them dirt? Who gave you the right? By the way, you are violating Russian law, because this "dirt" - in the vast majority - is rehabilitated.
                    5. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 8 January 2018 14: 12 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Do not forget that the atomic and space projects of the USSR were created by scientists trained in IMPERIAL Universities and IMPERIAL teachers, as well as the first diesel submarine

                      Do not tell tales, Korolev received his profile education in 1924. Yes, we had geniuses before, but that’s the way, and on such a scale ...
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      The people chose other leaders in the elections.

                      In what elections, what are you talking about, Stalin came to power during the internal party struggle, there were no popular elections in those days.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      By the way, you did not answer the question — are you ready to look at the death of your grandchildren from starvation for the sake of industrialization?

                      As a normal person, I certainly answer no, not ready, but as history showed at that time, it was the only right decision, otherwise we would not have survived the Second World War.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Where, in which country has there been so much “dirt” in history, as you called millions of our fellow citizens ?!

                      I didn’t call people dirt, I called a mess in a country that was created after revolutions and civil war dirt, and Stalin, if it is more clear to you, put things in order. Yes, he did it with human sacrifices, often not wine, but the inaction of Nicholas II, the interim government generated ever greater contradictions in society, revolution, civil war. A modern example: Yanukovych Natsik and the “unhealthy opposition” did not suppress at the time, now there is a social catastrophe with territorial losses and a civil war. I am sincerely sorry for the people who died innocently (after all, among them were really justly convicted criminals) under Stalin.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 8 January 2018 21: 03 New
                        0
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Do not tell tales, Korolev received his profile education in 1924.

                        Korolev was educated in Imperial Kiev Polytechnic Institute (n. 1898), as well as several years earlier, in the same place, the famous Sikorski.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        In what elections, what are you talking about, Stalin came to power during the internal party struggle, there were no popular elections in those days.

                        Constituent Assembly, 1917 rkpbe elections - lost.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        As a normal person, I certainly answer no, not ready, but as history showed at that time, it was the only right decision, otherwise we would not have survived the Second World War.

                        If not ready, then nyou have rights talk about correctness. NO. Those who suffered this have the right to judge.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I didn’t call people dirt, I called mud a mess in the country that was going on after the revolutions and civil war, and Stalin, if it will be more clear to you, put things in order. Yes, he did this with human sacrifices, often not wine, but the inaction of Nicholas II, the interim government generated ever greater contradictions in society, revolution, civil war.

                        No one "order" to induce and eliminate the "contradictions" by destroying people-NOT instructed. None.
                    6. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 9 January 2018 11: 26 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Korolev was educated at the Imperial Kiev Polytechnic Institute (n. From 1898), as well as several years earlier, in the same place, the famous Sikorsky.

                      That is the plus of the Bolsheviks, that they, unlike the liberals of the 90s, did not destroy what remained of the empire, but multiplied everything and developed it.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Constituent Assembly, 1917 rkpbe elections - lost.

                      Well, we arrived, after the constituent assembly there was a civil war, according to the results of which the government, roughly speaking, went to Lenin, and a political system was established, Stalin brought to power this system after Lenin. In your opinion, it turns out all the power in the Union up to Gorbachev was not legitimate?
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      No one "order" to induce and eliminate the "contradictions" by destroying people-NOT instructed. None.

                      And who could ask him about this, if he is the peak, there is no superior above him above him? Lord God or what? I say, Nicholas II, Gorbachev, Yeltsin, who killed many more people than the heroes of Stalin without their actions, but the one who did something ... That's why in our country it goes like this: an ambulance rides, a person lies, and they don’t pick him up because if they take him, they try to save him and he dies in their car - they are to blame, but if he died on his own, okay, an ambulance.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Those who suffered this have the right to judge.

                      And you personally suffered this, what do you judge? You and I can pour over for a long time from empty to empty, but answer one question: if Stalin is a villain who organized the genocide of his own people, well, in general, put on the scales, as they say, his positive and negative deeds, and even the negative ones will not move ... Well, in general, whence then did so many Stalinists come from? No, I’m not about modern people, who, as you say, do not know his evil deeds, I’m about his contemporaries who lived with him and were Stalinists after his death, and there were many of them. You don’t say that they didn’t know about his bad deeds, because according to your opinion, every 20 died of hunger, someone sat in every second family, black craters drove along the streets, everyone eavesdropped on each other, knocked at each other and went to slander organs. Moreover, there are examples when Stalin's contemporaries later changed their attitude towards him from negative to positive, for example, Alexander Zinoviev. For example, I did not meet Yeltsin’s “fans”, but perhaps D. Medvedev laughing
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 9 January 2018 13: 29 New
                        0
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        The plus of the Bolsheviks is that they, unlike the liberals of the 90s, did not crush what remains of the empire

                        From the Sikorsky team of 78 engineers who created Ilya Muromets in
                        RSFSR 17. Of the 42 academicians, 14 died. And with this rout, all the same, huge results. If there were no Bolsheviks, then how many times would there be more success ... The Bolsheviks harvested on the field, which they did NOT sow ..
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Well, here we are, after the constituent assembly there was a civil war, as a result of which the power, roughly speaking, went to Lenin, and a political system was established, Stalin brought to power this system after Lenin

                        Civil war is NOT an election: participated in itabout 5% ! The thug in the gateway is also right always for you? After all, he is stronger!
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        And who could ask him about this, if he is the peak, there is no superior above him above him? Lord God or what?

                        Are you pretending? Read idols - they always say that they are chosen by the people and do their will, which was a blatant lie!
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I say, Nicholas II, Gorbachev, Yeltsin who, with their actions, killed much more people

                        Well what the nonsense? WHAT are the victims pr Nicholas ?!
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        And you personally suffered this, what do you judge?

                        Those who endure are judged, and judged, unequivocally: under no circumstances is unacceptable. So did the state. And normal people think the same way: people should NOT die of hunger! Do not know how, do not torment!
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        his positive and negative deeds, and the bowl with negative even will not move..

                        This is when eating food belay and housing provision of the level of 1913 reached only by the 1960s ?!
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Well, in general, then where are so many Stalinists from? No, I’m not about modern people, who, as you say, do not know his evil deeds, I’m about his contemporaries who lived with him and were Stalinists after his death, and there were many of them.

                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Um, I’m not about modern people, who, as you say, do not know his evil deeds, I’m about his contemporaries who lived with him, and were Stalinists after his death, and there were many of them. What they did not know about his bad deeds do not say

                        I WILL say, for EVERYTHING was secret: dispossession, wild deaths from starvation 1932-33, 1946-48gg, losses in the Second World War, orders for the destruction of 1937-1938, -Everything is secret! And who chatted, quickly disappeared!
                        When it was carried out from the Mausoleum - no one stood up for defense - it was quiet and calm.
                    7. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 9 January 2018 16: 41 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      What nonsense is that? WHAT are the victims pr Nicholas ?!

                      What kind ? And with whom did these motley revolutionaries who shook the country grow up? He did not save the country and missed it into the abyss, and therefore all the victims of revolutions and civil war, and on his conscience, too.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      I WILL say, for EVERYTHING was secret: dispossession, wild deaths from starvation 1932-33, 1946-48gg, losses in the Second World War, orders for the destruction of 1937-1938, -Everything is secret! And who chatted, quickly disappeared!

                      I asked not to put pressure on the fact that everything was secret, but I don’t believe you, if, as they say, every second family suffered from Stalin, how could this be concealed? Yeah, classified national disaster, and no one knew anything - not believable, there is only one conclusion - the scale is exaggerated. For example, in the 90s, even if the statistics on crimes were classified, I would not have a TV, radio and newspapers, I would still know that the level of crime was over the top. And that people were afraid, I also asked not to talk, under Khrushchev and Brezhnev, no one disappeared.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      When it was carried out from the Mausoleum - no one stood up for defense - it was quiet and calm.

                      Well, I want to note that this was done secretly, was not advertised in advance, the authorities were afraid of some kind of upheaval, which meant that he had many supporters.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 10 January 2018 12: 20 New
                        0
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        What kind ? And with whom did these motley revolutionaries who shook the country grow up? He did not save the country and missed it into the abyss, and therefore all the victims of revolutions and civil war, and on his conscience, too.

                        There was an unprecedented war in history, the terrible tension of all the forces of the country, it weakened. And then, a treacherous stab in the back.
                        according to your logic and the Second World War on the conscience of Stalin, he then ruled and pulled, which means that the USSR was in WWII.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I asked not to put pressure on the fact that everything was secret, well, I don’t believe you,

                        I quote FACTS, but not crush: “Decree on disposition of No. 72” is secret, Order 0047 (37-38 g) is secret, ALL NKVD certificates on hunger, cannibalism, secret uprisings against collective farms, read, they are available .
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Yeah, they classified the national catastrophe, and no one knew anything - not believable, there is only one conclusion - the scale is exaggerated.

                        The scale is FIXED: 7 million corpses from the famine of 33 years, 648 thousand shot 37g, 4,5 million dispossessed, etc. Are you few? WHERE else was this ?!
                        Did people know? Some people knew something, but were silent, because they were afraid, but they couldn’t know everything, secrecy.
                        What does it have to do with it ... Brezhnev?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Well, I want to note that this was done secretly, was not advertised in advance, the authorities were afraid of some kind of upheaval, which meant that he had many supporters.

                        The fact is that EVERYBODY found out about this and NOBODY was indignant.
                    8. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 10 January 2018 17: 28 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      There was an unprecedented war in history, the terrible tension of all the forces of the country, it weakened. And then, a treacherous stab in the back.

                      Under Stalin, there was an even more unprecedented war, while we defeated both the external enemy and the internal were not allowed to strike in the back, we did not allow any bandera to turn around.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      according to your logic and the Second World War on the conscience of Stalin, he then ruled and pulled, which means that the USSR was in WWII.

                      What is my logic? Did I say that Nicholas II is to blame for the victims of WWII? Russia (just like the USSR) with its territory and resources could not be drawn into a world war in any situation. At the same time, Russia was not the initiator of world wars.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      The scale is FIXED: 7 million corpses from the famine of 33 years, 648 thousand shot 37g, 4,5 million dispossessed, etc. Are you few? WHERE else was this ?!
                      Did people know? Some people knew something, but were silent, because they were afraid, but they couldn’t know everything, secrecy.

                      Are you a human or a robot? I repeat once again, how could one have classified the Nationwide (in your opinion) catastrophe? What are some? If it touched only "some", then all the rest of life did not seem hell? Do you know how to think and analyze? According to the polls, 40% are positive about Stalin, 20% are negative, the rest are neutral, respectively. That is, those people who treat him positively in your opinion are stupid, illiterate and do not know the story? And they also have amnesia, they forgot that their grandfathers, grandmothers died in the camps? Or do you think they’re just crazy, sadomasochism? One you are so smart here, you learned about 7 million from the "secret documents" that are not accessible to anyone and shout about it to the right and left. Only in the same polls, only 20% said that they did not know anything about repression. And you yourself are a man of double standards, you see only what you want to see, for example, you advocate for power, which she also considers Stalin a criminal
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Those who endure are judged, and judged, unequivocally: under no circumstances is unacceptable. The state also decided.

                      But at the same time you forget that the state considers Yeltsin a hero, and you
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Yeltsin is a criminal.

                      In general, you only see what you want to see, what you do not want - you don’t notice, and therefore I consider the argument with you pointless and remain with your opinion, with which I am far from alone, and you can remain with you and continue to consider half the country uneducated, not knowing the story, this is your right.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 11 January 2018 10: 40 New
                        0
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Under Stalin, there was an even more unprecedented war, while we defeated both the external enemy and the internal were not allowed to strike in the back, we did not allow any bandera to turn around.

                        And the PMV Russia-WINS, the Bolsheviks lost, if you are not aware of the DOCUMENTS. Only the losses were-10% of the world’s, and in WWII-55% they caught the difference?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Are you a human or a robot? I repeat once again, how could one have classified the Nationwide (in your opinion) catastrophe?

                        You in RussianDo you understand at all ?! belay and HOW could people find out about the scale of the disaster? From the newspapers? On the radio? AS?! Only, according to the rumors, for which, too, KARALI. Therefore, no one knew the true numbers of crimes. They are now considered and considered. What's not clear?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        According to the polls, 40% are positive about Stalin, 20% are negative, the rest are neutral, respectively. That is, those people who treat him positively in your opinion are stupid, illiterate and do not know the story? And they also have amnesia, they forgot that their grandfathers, grandmothers died in the camps? Or do you think they’re just crazy, sadomasochism?

                        Many do not know, alas. Here you are the clearest example. Many millions who died of starvation, millions of exiles, hundreds of thousands of people were shot did NOT have any descendants — what kind of “grandparents”? Is that too hard to understand?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        One you are so smart here, you learned about 7 million from the "secret documents" that are not accessible to anyone and shout about it right and left

                        What kind of illiteracy is wild? 7 million victims of hunger is the official statement of the Duma
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        And you yourself are a man of double standards, you see only what you want to see, for example, you advocate for power, which she also considers Stalin a criminal

                        I stand for the LAW. And the laws of Russia have said their word. Do not like it, dispute it in court.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        In general, you only see what you want to see, what you do not want - you don’t notice, and therefore I consider the argument with you pointless and remain with your opinion, with which I am far from alone, and you can remain with you and continue to consider half the country uneducated, not knowing the story, this is your right

                        The death of millions from starvation is the norm for you. And this is clearly not the norm.
                        By the way, you did NOT answer: you are ready to look at the death of grandchildren from starvation in peacetime, for the sake of sterilization. Here is the answer about your principles. They are not here!
                    9. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 11 January 2018 14: 22 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      By the way, you did NOT answer: you are ready to look at the death of grandchildren from starvation in peacetime, for the sake of sterilization.

                      I answered this question, you are not careful.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Many millions who died of starvation, millions of exiles, hundreds of thousands of people were shot did NOT have any descendants — what kind of “grandparents”? Is that too hard to understand?

                      Not a plausible version, in this case, starving to die in villages, only people without wives, children, brothers, sisters should have been shot and repressed, generally speaking the scientific language of relatives of reproductive age. It is unlikely that these processes were so selective. And those who survived after starvation and exile also should not have had children later. In general, too much if.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      What kind of illiteracy is wild? 7 million victims of hunger is the official statement of the Duma

                      That's it - the official one, now it's all in the public domain, not only on television and other media, including VO, Stalin’s theme is raised and all this is being discussed without embellishment, so to speak, and you always stress that a huge mass of people evaluate activity Stalin positively DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING. Although, I repeat, according to the polls, only 20% said that they did not know about the repression. And read the comments on this forum. Positive attitude to Stalin (offhand) well, no less than half for sure. They also do not know about the victims of hunger in your opinion? How is that ?
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      I stand for the LAW.

                      I repeat, you advocate for the law only when it is FAVORABLE for you, otherwise how do you then call Yeltsin a criminal, if by law he is not like that, on the contrary, he even has the order "For Merit to the Fatherland".
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 11 January 2018 15: 20 New
                        0
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        and I answered this question, you are not careful.

                        No, they didn’t answer. This is not an answer:
                        As a normal person, I certainly answer no, not ready, but as history showed at that time, it was the only right decision, otherwise we would not have survived the Second World War.
                        . I concretize more: Do you agree that your grandchildren would die of hunger in agony in 1933 for the sake of sterilization? Exactly yours, and not strangers and abstract? Ask your children, by the way.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Not believable version

                        Among the exiled peasants (who, by the way, were not convicted by the court), the mortality rate exceeded the birth rate FORTY Forty times! And millions of starvation deaths (and the vast majority are children!) Are in a better position, do you think?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        And those who survived after starvation and exile also should not have had children later

                        Many could not, not at the resort, health was destroyed.
                        By informing, by the way, of descendants by grandmothers, etc.: I only found out about MY family of the times of 1914-1930 1989 yeargrandmother and mother were so afraid! I was already 30 years old!
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        That's it - the official one, now it's all in the public domain, not only on television and other media, including VO, Stalin’s theme is raised and all this is being discussed without embellishment, so to speak, and you always stress that a huge mass of people evaluate activity Stalin positively KNOWS NOTHING.

                        So only the positive and knows, that is the point. only PART OF the truth. The second part to know is harder and more unpleasant. Therefore, we need Stalin Center. Are you against
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Although, I repeat, according to surveys, only 20% replied that they did not know about the repression

                        What does "repression" have to do with it? This is minuscule compared to the famines destroyed by the Russian village and the Russian peasantry
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I repeat, you advocate for the law only when it is FAVORABLE for you, otherwise how do you then call Yeltsin a criminal, if by law he is not like that, on the contrary, he even has the order "For Merit to the Fatherland".

                        There is no law on the glorification of Yeltsin, binding on everyone — and I have the right to judge it as I see fit.
                        But the Laws on the illegality of acts of those times, binding on all, are.
                    10. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 12 January 2018 12: 36 New
                      0
                      I want to note for the second time that our dispute takes on a lingering and meaningless character, and therefore, to yours:
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      So only the positive and knows, that is the point. only PART OF the truth. The second part to know is harder and more unpleasant. Therefore, the Stalin Center is needed. Are you against

                      I want to say the following: we are not able to create a Stalin Center, but here you are, write an article in the "Military Review" in the "Opinions" section, name it something like "High Stalin's rating is a big mistake" and state in it that people who positively assess Stalin do not think that Stalin ... Well, then: according to this order was killed, etc. And then we look at the comments on the article, if most of the comments on Stalin are negative, then I agree with you that the positive comments on this article are solely out of knowledge.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 January 2018 14: 06 New
                        0
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I want to note for the second time that our dispute is becoming protracted and senseless character

                        I agree.
                        And just because you again did not answer the question: Do you agree that your grandchildren would die of hunger in agony in 1933 for the sake of sterilization? Exactly yours, and not strangers and abstract? Despite the fact that NOBODY called for any victims, there was peace, everything around was “good” and they sang “Jolly Fellows” with might and main.
                        If you answer honestly, then the answer is NO. And all your constructions will collapse.
                        If dishonest, then the conversation is pointless.
                        Everywhere, throw a wedge. Therefore, you are silent. hi
                    11. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 12 January 2018 15: 51 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      And just because you again did not answer the question: Do you agree that your grandchildren would die of hunger in agony in 1933 for the sake of sterilization?

                      To your question, I repeat, I answered. If you do not understand, I’ll expand my answer: I’m not ready for my children to die for industrialization (although the cause of the famine of 32-33 is not only it, there is a great deal of circumstances: both collectivization and frequent sabotage among the peasants themselves and the lack of coordinated actions between the center and leaders in the field) in any case, if my children died of starvation under Stalin, I would hate Stalin, if my children would die in Afghanistan under Brezhnev, I would hate Brezhnev if my child died in the hospital now, because I don’t could find 2 million dollars. for treatment, I would hate Putin with his “free” medicine. Innocent victims, no matter how cynical it sounds, will always be. You tell me the scale is different!? I said in the 90s we lost several times more people and at the same time did not have any success. And as to the scale, a lot or a little, let the people judge, I said write an article and we will look at the comments. Or are you afraid that your theory of ignorance of people will not be consistent?
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 13 January 2018 07: 34 New
                        0
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        if my children died of starvation under Stalin, I would hate Stalin

                        Those. You disagree with industrialization at the expense of YOUR grandchildren. Like all normal people.
                        And with the two comments above, at the expense of ALIEN grandchildren quite agreed to themselves.
                        But these foreign grandchildren had their grandfathers who, just like you, strongly disagreed. Millions of grandfathers! Where is your sequence? All collapsed!
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        oi children died in Afghanistan under Brezhnev

                        There, the SOLDIERS perished, performing the oath. Differences, do not catch?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        the child died in the hospital

                        In the hospital, alas, it happens. In ALL times and in the West too. But NOT from hunger. Again, do not see the difference?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I said in the 90s we lost several times more people and at the same time did not have any success.

                        Success is what? Reach food, clothing, and housing 1913 to 1960 and die out since 1964? Russian Cross by 1992? Purchase of grain s1960h- (themselves-could not)? Blackening Russian cities (the Russian village has run out of youth by the beginning of 1980)? Atom and Cosmos? So they were made by scientists raised in Imperial universities and imperial teachers,
                        And, most importantly, 1991 and the subsequent breakdowns were made dull by the same Bolsheviks with the same cruel measures, without thinking about her and taking care of the people.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I said write an article and we will look at the comments. Or are you afraid

                        Yes, I'm afraid. But not that.
                    12. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 13 January 2018 14: 52 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      And with the two comments above, at the expense of ALIEN grandchildren quite agreed to themselves.

                      Purely philosophy, nothing more, trouble happened to you - you rejoice, it happened - you are looking for the guilty one, this is how the person works, the few look for reasons in themselves, the rest look for the extreme. Here you are, for example, maybe you have some kind of nobles in your family, or your relatives have dispossessed, maybe something else, and for you now the history of Russia looks like this: they lived well, the barbarians came and the communists do not let us live on today (!) day:
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      And, most importantly, 1991 and the subsequent breakdowns were made dull by the same Bolsheviks with the same cruel measures, without thinking about her and taking care of the people.

                      The year 1991 was made by the traitors whom Comrade Stalin did not have time to finish. I foresee your question: "Are people tormented by hunger also traitors?" So, I’ll say to this that I have already expressed my position on this issue more than once, it does not make sense to repeat, especially if you don’t want to hear my point of view, but only ask the same question each time.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      There, the SOLDIERS perished, performing the oath. Differences, do not catch?

                      Well, conscripts died there too, they didn’t voluntarily become military men, they were called up, they didn’t want to die voluntarily, where are your liberal views? And communism, by the way, assumes that people live not only for themselves but also for the country.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Yes, I'm afraid. But not that.

                      Why, the fact that the Communists will shoot you (sorry for sarcasm)? That's why you can only somewhere in the kitchen or in a small company talk “talk” about not easy life, among like-minded people like you, but you’re afraid to say something to the masses, afraid that they’ll “spit it out” because you know that for the majority of our population, communism (including Stalin) is more good than evil, and people like you, whom this system has not pleased, are a minority. And by the fact that people do not know anything, at a time when all the information is in the public domain, you just console yourself, you just don’t want (from the principle, maybe some other reason) to recognize that very, very many people liked this system. hi
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 13 January 2018 15: 57 New
                        0
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Pure philosophy nothing more

                        Double standards and, excuse me, hypocrisy. NOBODY agreed to sacrifice their relatives for sterilization, which means that it is SO impossible to do it.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Here you are, for example, maybe you have some kind of nobles in your family, or your relatives have dispossessed, maybe something else, and for you now the history of Russia looks like this: they lived well, the barbarians came and the communists do not let us live on today (!) day:

                        And the chairman of the kombeda was also my grandfather, but what does personal insult, neobid, do with it? We are talking about objective solutions.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        The year 1991 was made by the traitors whom Comrade Stalin did not have time to finish. I foresee your question: "Are people tormented by hunger also traitors?" So, I’ll say to this that I have already expressed my position on this issue more than once, it does not make sense to repeat, especially if you don’t want to hear my point of view, but only ask the same question each time.

                        Who to push20 year old Yeltsin ?! The CLEANEST product, by the way, HIS system. And how many more had to be finished and on what basis? This is PEOPLE, not a cake!
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Well, conscripts died there too, they didn’t voluntarily become military men, they were called up, they didn’t want to die voluntarily, where are your liberal views?

                        What are so liberal, you-about what? People (conscripts including) gave the Oath, fulfilled their constitutional duty. This is a duty to the country, whether you like it or not, it doesn’t matter!
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        And why, the fact that the Communists will shoot you (sorry for sarcasm)?

                        Yes.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        That's why you can only somewhere in the kitchen or in a small company talk “talk” about not easy life, among like-minded people like you, but you’re afraid to say something to the masses, afraid that they’ll “spit it out” because you know that for the majority of our population, communism (including Stalin) is more good than evil, and people like you, whom this system has not pleased, are a minority.

                        What cuisine do you have: about it-popularly elected THE PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA spoke a thousand times! Why be afraid? Do you speak of a minority: 4,5% of the Russian population voted for the Communists in the last elections, 50 of 90 seats in the Duma have been lost. So you can only speak on your own
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        And by the fact that people do not know anything, at a time when all the information is in the public domain, you just console yourself, you just don’t want (from the principle, maybe some other reason) to recognize that very, very many people liked this system.

                        The elections showed what people liked: as soon as they appeared, and the Communists were blown away, despite the sober, frantic 70-year-old propaganda. This is a criterion, not someone else’s wishes and dreams.
                        Life will show! And-already-showed .. hi
                    13. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 13 January 2018 17: 49 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      What cuisine, what are you: about this, the popularly elected PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA spoke a thousand times!

                      Which one? DAM-ev or Putin? If Putin, then his position is closer to mine (I remind you that I believe that Stalin is rather good than evil, you (as I understand it) think that he is absolute evil, Putin (again as far as I understand) - 50/50), so you wishful thinking. And to the question whether Putin's parents admired Stalin, he replied:
                      Well, of course. I think the vast majority of citizens of the former Soviet Union admired Stalin

                      I recall also believe that for most people, life under Stalin did not seem to be hell. The full text of Putin’s answer is here: https://ria.ru/politics/20170616/1496623625.html
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 14 January 2018 07: 59 New
                        0
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        You (as I understand it) believe that he is an absolute evil,

                        No, of course: at the beginning of the Second World War, he destroyed all potential "peace fighters" (in reality, against Russia), such as the Bolsheviks in the WWII. Than avoided a stab in the back. during the war.
                        He destroyed almost the entire Leninist guard who committed the Thief, calling them traitors, Shions, and bandits. That made it possible for Western newspapers to rightly say that the revolution, it turns out, was mainly committed by criminals and bandits. yes
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I remind you that I believe that for most people, life under Stalin did not seem to be hell

                        Putin: "Ugly Stalinist regime." yes
                    14. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 16 January 2018 12: 23 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Putin: "Ugly Stalinist regime."

                      This is when he said such a link to the studio.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 16 January 2018 12: 42 New
                        +1
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Putin: "Ugly Stalinist regime."

                        This is when he said such a link to the studio.

                        And google?
                    15. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 16 January 2018 17: 21 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      And google?

                      "With all the ugliness of the Stalinist regime, with all the repressions, even with all the exiles of entire nations, the Stalin regime didn’t set itself the goal of destroying the peoples "- these are his words, if you rephrase quotation marks you don’t need to. It only confirmed that the Stalin regime’s aim was not to exterminate And then it was said in 2015, and what I quoted in 2017, he rethought his attitude a bit winked
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 17 January 2018 07: 42 New
                        +1
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        if you rephrase quotation marks, do not put. By this, he only confirmed that the purpose of the Stalinist regime was not to exterminate people

                        Not a single word is paraphrased: "ugliness", Stalinist, "regime" - everything is there. The purpose of extermination. Naturally, there wasn’t. But it was.
                        Do you like the dying blackening Russia? Then it began.
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        in 2017, he rethought his attitude a bit

                        No need to translate Putin.
                    16. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 17 January 2018 10: 39 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      No need to translate Putin.

                      It was a joke if you did not understand.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Do you like the dying blackening Russia? Then it began.

                      I repeat again, most people don’t think so, only you and that professor of demography (one!) Whose theory you cited as an example think so. And you all continue to build from yourself a prophet who will open his eyes to everyone and show where is good and where is bad.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 17 January 2018 14: 22 New
                        +1
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        I repeat again, most people don’t think so, only you and that professor of demography (one!) Whose theory you cited as an example think so. And you all continue to build from yourself a prophet who will open his eyes to everyone and show where is good and where is bad.
                        The "secret" about the extinction of the Russian since 1964 is a secret only to dunno. For demographers, this is a long-known truth. There was also a well-known owl demographer Pervodensev: "The population of the USSR yesterday, today, tomorrow", M. 1972 The same conclusion. And the fact that in families there were 1,8 children instead of 7-9, doesn’t you say anything? And the Russian Cross, too? The US population over the same time increased by 3,5 times, China - 2,5 times.
                        They tore off the people with unimaginable dull tension (there was a smart leadership of brains).
                        For whom were they built? For the Chinese, Arabs, blacks?
                        Quote: SERGUS
                        And you all continue to build from yourself a prophet who will open his eyes to everyone and show where is good and where is bad.

                        The facts of the past are given to you, the prophet foretells the future.
                        For you, Russia, which has transformed in just 50 years from the fastest growing country in the world into an endangered norm, is not for me.
              2. The comment was deleted.
                1. SERGUS
                  SERGUS 11 January 2018 10: 06 New
                  0
                  Quote: leo1946
                  SERGUS, wake up, sssssnurochka.

                  Save your morning love speeches for your wife, please speak on the topic, do not litter the forum!
          4. SERGUS
            SERGUS 30 December 2017 11: 45 New
            +3
            Quote: Stas157
            Today in modern cinema they show Stalin as a bloody and cruel tyrant, they try to convey the injustice of that time, but my father told me how people cried when Stalin died because they loved him.

            Authorities and officials of all stripes will continue to pour mud on Stalin, for they cannot accept Stalin’s policies! And his policy was simple - the personal responsibility of the leader, now we have both, the plant director is also a deputy and a businessman, and the fact that the missiles do not take off and the delivery time breaks is the fault of the cleaner! And under Stalin, this lover of sitting on three chairs would have been shot right away, so the modern authorities and officials to say something good about Stalin (that is, to recognize his approach as true) is akin to death. Therefore, Stalin is a national hero, a hero for simple, honest people, therefore, when conducting opinion polls of the action, a large number of people approve of him, and this is a fact!
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 3 January 2018 10: 55 New
              0
              But you are wrong - it’s not the cleaner who is to blame, but the storekeeper .... you need to understand !!!!!
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. The comment was deleted.
          5. The comment was deleted.
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        2. Maki Avellevich
          Maki Avellevich 28 December 2017 18: 31 New
          +4
          from childhood onwards, I probably, like many others, have always heard the same mantra. - Stalin was bloodthirsty, ruined millions and so on. heard and believed. everyone repeated everywhere, books again.
          Now, when I am already forty, I stumbled upon a book that illuminated this man in a completely different light. she also prompted me to look for alternative views on Stalin and his time.
          I’m not sure that I understand even a small fraction of what happened in the 20 30 40s, but I feel that so far I have been influenced by propaganda that grossly distorted the story.
          1. reg
            reg 28 December 2017 19: 03 New
            +3
            Quote: Maki Avellievich
            Now, when I am already forty, I stumbled upon a book that illuminated this man in a completely different light. she also prompted me to look for alternative views on Stalin and his time.

            You need to read less. Do not feed the horse.
            1. Maki Avellevich
              Maki Avellevich 28 December 2017 19: 05 New
              10
              Quote: reg
              You need to read less. Do not feed the horse.


              thanks for the advice.
              in turn, I advise you to write less.
              1. reg
                reg 28 December 2017 19: 08 New
                0
                Quote: Maki Avellievich
                in turn, I advise you to write less.

                Thank. I'm thinking about it.
              2. badens1111
                badens1111 28 December 2017 19: 13 New
                +2
                Quote: Maki Avellevich
                Quote: reg
                You need to read less. Do not feed the horse.


                thanks for the advice.
                in turn, I advise you to write less.

                It is clearly stated that this is not the first and rare time that I read this from the people of Israel, but nevertheless, good
            2. Tula gingerbread
              Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 23 New
              +4
              Someone here was talking about rudeness. And in the mirror, look, there is no desire?
          2. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 28 December 2017 19: 23 New
            +1
            Quote: Maki Avellievich
            I’m not sure that I understand even a small fraction of what happened in the 20 30 40s, but I feel that so far I have been influenced by propaganda that grossly distorted the story.

            And you carefully study the friendship of Stalin with Bukharin, maybe on the other hand it will illuminate.
            1. Maki Avellevich
              Maki Avellevich 29 December 2017 10: 06 New
              0
              Quote: saturn.mmm
              And you carefully study the friendship of Stalin with Bukharin, maybe on the other hand it will illuminate.


              Do you have a title for books?
      2. To be or not to be
        To be or not to be 28 December 2017 10: 58 New
        12
        "Stalin did not die, he dissolved in the future." Charles de Gaulle ...
        Stalin was the most outstanding person who impressed our changing cruel time of the period in which his life passed.
        Stalin was a man of extraordinary energy, with unbending willpower, sharp, cruel, merciless in conversation, which even I, raised in the British Parliament, could not oppose.
        First of all, Stalin had a great sense of humor and sarcasm and the ability to accurately perceive thoughts. This power is so great in Stalin that it seemed unique among states of all times and peoples.
        Stalin made the greatest impression on us. He possessed deep, logically meaningful wisdom. He was an unsurpassed master in finding, in difficult moments, ways out of the most hopeless situation.
        Stalin was the greatest, unparalleled in history, dictator who accepted Russia with a plow and left it with atomic weapons.
        W. Churchill
        taken from here http://izyumov.ru/Stend_Stalin/Chto_govorili.htm
        1. To be or not to be
          To be or not to be 28 December 2017 11: 00 New
          +4
          joke .. "" At the historical readings of the Committee in memory of Stalin.
          Obama has gathered all his assistants and asks:
          - How do we escape from the crisis?
          The cleverest said: "We must consult with Marx."
          Let's go to Marx. He long explained the theoretical side of the issue.
          Obama listened carefully and says:
          - I agree with many of your positions, but how to do all this?
          Marx gets up, opens the door to the next room and says:
          “Come in, comrade Stalin!”
          http://izyumov.ru/uvidennoe.htm
      3. Hlavaty
        Hlavaty 28 December 2017 12: 34 New
        +3
        Quote: Reptiloid
        The actress! And I thought --- in essence!

        And this, too, can be attributed to the merits of Stalin. "Creative intelligentsia" has always been adjusted to the owner. And if the owner set a high standard of requirements (first of all to himself), then all the others reached for him to at least somehow correspond. Remember books, films, songs, verses of those times - there are a lot of powerful works and just masterpieces.
        Today, instead of the Boss, there are many "owners" of incomparably small scale who set their low "levels" of requirements (due to their underdevelopment). The "creative intelligentsia" instantly adapts to these wretched demands of the new "owners", and falls to vulgarity. Especially falling is always easier than reaching for the great.
        1. Maki Avellevich
          Maki Avellevich 28 December 2017 18: 35 New
          +8
          Quote: Hlavaty
          And this, too, can be attributed to the merits of Stalin. "Creative intelligentsia" has always been adjusted to the owner.


          this is true, but do not forget the words of her bully were spoken already under the new owner under whom she did not seem in a hurry to adjust. this fact speaks for the sincerity of Orlova's statements. the benefits stood up for Stalin was no more, on the contrary.
    2. Vend
      28 December 2017 09: 07 New
      +1
      Few people think about the meaning of Stalin's actions. And fans and opponents work out by cliché.
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 28 December 2017 13: 29 New
        12
        Quote: Wend
        Few people think about the meaning of Stalin's actions. And fans and opponents work out by cliché.
        Nevertheless, with all the zeal of the liberotas and the West to discredit Stalin, they get the opposite effect. After decades of work on anti-Stalinism, its authority is growing ...
        1. Vend
          28 December 2017 14: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: Nyrobsky
          Quote: Wend
          Few people think about the meaning of Stalin's actions. And fans and opponents work out by cliché.
          Nevertheless, with all the zeal of the liberotas and the West to discredit Stalin, they get the opposite effect. After decades of work on anti-Stalinism, its authority is growing ...

          Addictions of the people, like a pendulum. In 90's one thing, now another. and what will be years through 50?
          1. Tula gingerbread
            Tula gingerbread 28 December 2017 14: 41 New
            +7
            In the nineties, polls showed little to the worst attitude toward Stalin, and this was against the backdrop of frenzied anti-Stalinist, anti-Soviet propaganda and impudent lies.
            I personally, like many others, have never changed my attitude towards Stalin. An opinion that coincides with the opinion of L. Orlova.
            1. Vend
              28 December 2017 14: 56 New
              +1
              Quote: Tula gingerbread
              In the nineties, polls showed little to the worst attitude toward Stalin, and this was against the backdrop of frenzied anti-Stalinist, anti-Soviet propaganda and impudent lies.
              I personally, like many others, have never changed my attitude towards Stalin. An opinion that coincides with the opinion of L. Orlova.

              Believe polls ungrateful business, you can not touch 90-e. under Khrushchev, the attitude towards Stalin changed.
              1. Nyrobsky
                Nyrobsky 28 December 2017 15: 06 New
                +5
                Quote: Wend
                Believe polls ungrateful business, you can not touch 90-e. under Khrushchev, the attitude towards Stalin changed.
                Khrushchev, therefore, should carry out the cult of the personality of Stalin, since he understood that he would not be able to equal the authority of Vissarionovich for a hundredth share. Envy pushed Nikita to a cult and revenge for his weakness.
                1. Vend
                  28 December 2017 15: 22 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Nyrobsky
                  Quote: Wend
                  Believe polls ungrateful business, you can not touch 90-e. under Khrushchev, the attitude towards Stalin changed.
                  Khrushchev, therefore, should carry out the cult of the personality of Stalin, since he understood that he would not be able to equal the authority of Vissarionovich for a hundredth share. Envy pushed Nikita to a cult and revenge for his weakness.

                  Why he did this, no one knows. However, much can be expected. For example: After Stalin's death, a split in power was outlined, people were at a loss for the preconditions of open confrontation, because in the hands of the population a lot of weapons accumulated. And Khrushchev eliminated this threat to the country. I understand that this option will not suit you.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 28 December 2017 17: 15 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Wend
                    And Khrushchev eliminated this threat to the country

                    But how did dead Stalin interfere with Khrushchev?
                    1. Doliva63
                      Doliva63 28 December 2017 18: 27 New
                      +7
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Quote: Wend
                      And Khrushchev eliminated this threat to the country

                      But how did dead Stalin interfere with Khrushchev?

                      Like a dead lion to a jackal.
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 28 December 2017 18: 29 New
                        +6
                        Quote: Doliva63
                        Like a dead lion jackal

                    2. reg
                      reg 28 December 2017 19: 06 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Dart2027

                      And Roosevelt, Churchill, and de Gaulle, as it turned out after their death, spoke very much and very warmly about Dzhugashvili.
                      There will be relays to relay something.
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 28 December 2017 19: 15 New
                        +3
                        Quote: reg
                        Will the relays relay

                        Why are you doing this?
                        From lack of education?
                    3. Vend
                      29 December 2017 09: 24 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Quote: Wend
                      And Khrushchev eliminated this threat to the country

                      But how did dead Stalin interfere with Khrushchev?

                      Stalin is a strong historical figure. He could become the banner under which many would stand. Now ready to get up.
                      1. leo1946
                        leo1946 10 January 2018 18: 09 New
                        0
                        Wend, if he became, then you would all die like rubbish.
                  2. Ragoz
                    Ragoz 28 December 2017 20: 28 New
                    +3
                    Wend:
                    You write about the personality cult of I.V. Stalin. Watch TV - every day in all programs for a dozen, a hundred times I show the same character in different situations and poses. Where to Stalin before him!
                    1. Vend
                      29 December 2017 09: 31 New
                      0
                      Quote: Ragoz
                      Wend:
                      You write about the personality cult of I.V. Stalin. Watch TV - every day in all programs for a dozen, a hundred times I show the same character in different situations and poses. Where to Stalin before him!

                      Empty unreasonable words. I would even say stupid. Various technical achievements. Putin does not look from the posters on the street with slogans. He is not put on a par with Stalin as ideologists, and so on. If Stalin lived today, the ideological cover would be the same as in the DPRK. If not cooler. Your attitude towards the president of Russia is understandable. Before you write something like that, think about it. And I wanted to shoot, but it turned out to be a misfire.
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 29 December 2017 11: 02 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Wend
                        Putin does not look from posters on the street with slogans

                        Why are you fooling yourself and others? In each office, around the tracks are his portraits.
                        So deny the obvious, at least naive.
                        Actually, what do you dislike about the personality cult?
                        There is a PERSONALITY, there is a Cult, there is none, there is nothing at all, as is the case with a spotted and feathered.
                    2. ver_
                      ver_ 7 January 2018 17: 45 New
                      0
                      ... and, what, under Dzhugashvili there was television? .. There were black * plates * - the radio was .., as well as his portraits in each hut (just in case) ... they will report that there isn’t ...
                  3. Tula gingerbread
                    Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 26 New
                    +4
                    There was no threat; Stalin was Malenkov's successor, which Khrushchev did not like. The threat was only his personal power.
    3. badens1111
      badens1111 28 December 2017 09: 35 New
      33
      By 1954, a decree was prepared on free electricity for all citizens of the Soviet Union. Because by this moment it was considered by Soviet economists that everything paid off - the construction of hydroelectric power stations, networks, and if everything, including mineral resources, belongs to the people, then why should people pay for electricity, which is the property of their own efforts. Free electricity was supposed to be in the country since 1954. He did not have time to do this.
      So let Stalin’s detractors just look around, and if, of course, they are not in London and not in New York, but in Russia, then they will find the Stalinist state, the Stalinist economy, industry, social model and everything that we have . The oligarchs did not create anything that they own.
      All this was built by Stalin, and they have appropriated to themselves and are exploited. Well, let them at least throw off a monument to Stalin to begin with. If we talk about historical justice and the continuity of eras, then the monument to Stalin - this is where to start. Stalin is the best we had in the XNUMXth century.
      1. peta locksmith
        peta locksmith 28 December 2017 11: 04 New
        +7
        Yes, not only that did not create!
        oligarchs stuck to the bowels!

        Since 1993, THE BURNING OF THE BOWS IS LAWED CONSTITUTIONALLY!

        Constitution of 1977 (1977 as amended on March 14, 1990 - as amended
        USSR Law dated March 14.03.1990, 1360 No. 1-XNUMX "On the establishment of the post of President of the USSR and amendments and additions to the Constitution (Basic Law) of the USSR")

        Article 10. The economic system of the USSR is developing on the basis of property of Soviet citizens, collective and state property.
        The land, its bowels, waters, flora and fauna in their natural state are AN INTEGRAL DOMESTIC PEOPLE living in this territory, are managed by the Councils of People's Deputies and are provided for use by citizens, enterprises, institutions and organizations.
        and
        Constitution December 12, 1993
        Article 9
        1. Land and other natural resources are used and protected in the Russian Federation as the basis of the life and activities of the peoples living in the relevant territory.
        2. Land and other natural resources may be in private, state, municipal and other forms of ownership.

        Under Stalin, such theft of socialist public property is not possible !!!
        1. To be or not to be
          To be or not to be 28 December 2017 11: 35 New
          +7
          Petya locksmith Today, 11:04 ↑
          "Yes, not only did not create!
          the oligarchs stuck to the bowels! "

          And in Stalin about resources
          1. peta locksmith
            peta locksmith 28 December 2017 11: 47 New
            +2
            Dear Shakespeare fan - you are right - there must be power, but! we don’t have such power that would move the use of these wealth to the benefit of the people
            - we don’t have any power -
            or am I misunderstood something?
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. mih_sergeev92
      mih_sergeev92 30 December 2017 18: 03 New
      +1
      Stalin is a great theorist and great practitioner. Don’t say that very few managed to combine this combination. Even Lenin, partly due to his early death, could not realize much in practice, and Stalin was able, overcoming resistance within the country, overcoming external threats., Continued to move the country towards the Great Goal. This was his main idea, Stalin dedicated his whole life to the last breath. History did not know another such person ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
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  2. DrVintorez
    DrVintorez 28 December 2017 06: 16 New
    17
    Strong. It is especially important that these words are spoken after the death of Stalin, which emphasizes their veracity.
  3. Same lech
    Same lech 28 December 2017 06: 21 New
    +6
    Who is the director at the Chelyabinsk Tractor?

    Many comrades in the People’s Commissariat of Industry had such souls left such questions ... smile immediately, and output increased and quality was respected.
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 28 December 2017 10: 29 New
      +5
      Only in your stupid head could the thought appear that in this way labor productivity is increased
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 28 December 2017 10: 34 New
        +5
        Only in your silly head

        Rude dear .... belay

        in my stupid head, as you say, there are a lot of synonyms for your smartest head with different variations ... but forum rules forbid you to go on insulting your personality ... which your smart head cannot digest somehow ...

        I am not going to communicate with you at a similar level ... hi
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 28 December 2017 10: 45 New
          +5
          = not going to talk to you at that level ... =
          For God's sake. But before tearing up the issue of increasing output, try to think about what great works this was achieved. The huge work of the entire plant staff and, to your surprise, its director. Not out of fear of Stalin, people worked, but out of fear of not giving anything to the front.
          1. Same lech
            Same lech 28 December 2017 10: 54 New
            +4
            But before tearing up the issue of increasing output, try to think about what great works this was achieved.


            Before being rude to a person, bother to find out the opinion of this person about STALIN.

            My next comment about him after a sarcastic comment as you think was deleted ... and so I’ll briefly say ...
            Stalin accepted RUSSIA, backward and destroyed by the First World War and Civil War, and handed it over to his successors as a world nuclear power ... I have said this more than once as a statesman has no equal to him ... even the GDP does not reach him.

            As for the caustic commentary ... I had in mind primarily discipline.
            It is no secret that the threat to take punitive measures to sloppiness and slackness of leaders of different levels acted on people quite effectively in difficult times for the country. hi
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 28 December 2017 12: 19 New
              +3
              I don’t know what you thought when you wrote -
              = Many comrades in the People’s Commissariat of Industry got away from such issues ... smile at once and the output increased and the quality was respected. = But you wrote just that. And I read just that. And, I believe that I correctly understood what I read. And I felt uneasy from the fact that you, just like that, mocked at the work of the people who forged the victory. And your respect for Stalin does not give you the right to mock people fulfilling his directives.
            2. Tula gingerbread
              Tula gingerbread 28 December 2017 14: 48 New
              +1
              I think the expression was not quite correct, but it was necessary to state more precisely so that there were no different currents.
              With regard to punitive measures, I completely agree here, humanity in the entire history of its existence has not come up with other measures of influence and education, except for punishment and encouragement.
              The absence of punishment or its threat gives rise to permissiveness, irresponsibility, sloppiness, and indifference.
              Of course, punishment and encouragement should complement each other, and distortions are unacceptable, they simply reduce the effectiveness of any measure of influence.
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  6. Alex66
    Alex66 28 December 2017 07: 12 New
    16
    Everything that was done under Stalin outweighs all that lies and chatter of officials who departed from communism.
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 28 December 2017 19: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Alex66
      Everything that was done under Stalin outweighs all that lies and chatter of officials who departed from communism.

      Yes, the murderer was still Stalin, and the plants under Stalin in the USSR were built by the Americans for the grain that Stalin took from the peasants, at first they destroyed everything to the ground and built it on the bones, and the Nazis defeated the Soviet people at the cost of 27 million lives.
      And the eyes are so kind, kind.
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 29 December 2017 11: 05 New
        +3
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        Yes, the murderer is still that

        Your lie is not confirmed, but the number of criminals convicted, only confirms the idea-in a normal society, crime is in turm, and does not sit in public places and stuffs pockets at the expense of the population.
        Each state has the right to repression, so you should keep silent, without trying to expose all sorts of trash, Vlasovites, Krasnauvans, Basmachs of different people and Trotskyites with criminals as innocent whitewashed.
  7. bober1982
    bober1982 28 December 2017 07: 32 New
    +2
    Lyubov Petrovna was a great actress, but like any woman, she certainly could not help but kick her rival in the theater: Ve-Pe (Vera Petrovna)
    Ranevskaya, Orlova, Maretskaya - for one theater, of course, it was something unusual.
  8. vlad007
    vlad007 28 December 2017 07: 38 New
    24
    In the 60s, Marshal Rokossovsky, who was repressed, was asked to write an article about the personality cult of Stalin. Rokossovsky refused and said: "Stalin is holy to me."
    Konstantin Simonov, poet and writer, said: "Yes, there was a cult of personality, but there was also a personality."
    1. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 28 December 2017 08: 50 New
      18
      vlad007 Today, 07:38 AM New
      Konstantin Simonov, poet and writer, said: "Yes, there was a cult of personality, but there was also a personality."
      In fairness, it must be said that these words are attributed to different people. For example, I heard how these words were attributed to Kosygin, the Internet gives a link to the fact that these are the words of Sholokhov. But the point is not that, the point is that it really was a PERSON!
      The following impartial figures speak of how the country developed at that time - industrial production growth figures from 1913 (for the USSR from 1926) to 1938: France - by 93.2%, England - by 113.3%, USA - by 120%, Germany - by 131.6%, USSR - by 908.8%!

      In the first Soviet five-year plan, we built 1500 enterprises, re-created a number of new industries and fundamentally reconstructed the old ones, 4500 enterprises were already built in the second five-year plan, 1938 enterprises during the third five-year plan (more precisely, from 41 to 3000st), during the war years ( from July 1, 1941 to January 1, 1946) 3500 enterprises were built and 7500 were rebuilt, 6200 enterprises were destroyed and destroyed during the war during the fourth five-year plan, and 1951 were built during the fifth five-year plan (55-3200). Moreover, all of these were not intermediary firms reselling something "made in not ours," as it is now, but the largest state-owned combines, plants and factories, power plants. From the 28th to the 40th, the Stalinist system of the economy increased production by 6 times!

      An unprecedented pace in history has not only developed the country's economy - science, art, education and healthcare have also developed rapidly.

      So to whom these words belong is not so important, what matters is that it is TRUTH!
      But the words of Rokossovsky really were his, despite the fact that he had a chance to go to torture chambers and endure torture. Just a man understood what time he lives.
      1. VS
        VS 28 December 2017 10: 59 New
        13
        Rokosovsky suffered for quite commonplace reasons. He commanded a cavcopus, an emergency happened during the exercises - horses died and even people seemed to be injured. He was arrested as the boss and then, to the heap, some stupid people began to hang intent on him and his connection with Polish and Japanese intelligence. What was quite a common thing in those years - there was really a lot of aggriment working against the SSR. Having been under investigation, Rokosovsky went out ... there was no trial ... He received compensation for the time spent in the pre-trial detention center ... became the Marshal of Victory.
        ..
    2. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 28 December 2017 11: 29 New
      +1
      What did the leaders of that time say about And In Stalin
      a. Third Reich

      Foreign Minister von Robintrop


      b. Others are not Soviet
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 28 December 2017 07: 59 New
    +8
    After the concert, the factory workers promised me to increase the production of piston rings for our next meeting.
    ... Hmm .. The magic power of art. Without irony. Now you can’t imagine such a situation ...
    1. gavrila2984
      gavrila2984 28 December 2017 08: 20 New
      13
      That's for sure. After modern artists I want to swell, but not to overfulfill the plan.
      1. VS
        VS 28 December 2017 11: 00 New
        +4
        Lolita will come to the factory what - there everything will go into binge right there))))
        1. gavrila2984
          gavrila2984 28 December 2017 11: 50 New
          +5
          Such plants do not go. Nobody actually drives.
          1. Tula gingerbread
            Tula gingerbread 28 December 2017 14: 52 New
            +5
            So I wanted to say this, where someone of us saw that an artist of such a level as Orlova, today came for free to speak to the workers of any factory.
            Here for the corporate party, for the big grandmas, it is easy.
            True, Kobzon spoke to the soldiers in both Afghanistan and Syria, but this is another generation close to Orlova.
  10. Gardamir
    Gardamir 28 December 2017 08: 42 New
    12
    It seems that in 1968, the Soviet Political Bureau decided to rehabilitate the memory of I.V. Stalin .. But cultural figures found out about this (and even at that time there were their Akhejakovs and Makarevichs), collected signatures against rehabilitation. If you look at these signatures, then many of them under I.V. Stalin lived happily ever after, were laureates of Stalin prizes. But alas ...
  11. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 28 December 2017 08: 47 New
    16
    Great was the Man! Yes, with a capital letter! Without him, the German soldiers were giggling merrily, they would have wound the tracks of Soviet soldiers armed with one rifle for two. Indeed, only thanks to Stalin's industrialization, and the impeccable organization of industrial evacuation to the east, the Soviet soldier throughout the war did not lack any small arms, nor artillery, nor tanks, nor airplanes. And the current liberals are turning everything upside down, representing Soviet soldiers armed with one rifle for two, and defeated "contrary" am . By the way, there is a version why Khrushchev hated Stalin. He hated Stalin fiercely, it was personal. Khrushchev’s son was shot during the war because he shot an officer in a drunken state. There is evidence that Khrushchev personally came to Stalin, begged him to cancel the verdict of the tribunal, and almost crawled on his knees in front of him. But Stalin, who was always honest, and who did not even exchange his son for Paulus, replied that he could not break the law and act like a tyrant monarch who violated his own laws. That is why after the death of Stalin, Khrushchev began to blacken him.
  12. Spook
    Spook 28 December 2017 08: 58 New
    +3
    I see all the genius of Comrade Stalin only in the fact that this man managed to gain power and maintain it.

    Imagine you have a secret at work, and in the process of intrigue, promoting your people, hiding, destroying competitors, she begins to lead everyone. It was possible to laugh about it, but I personally witnessed this state of affairs at one factory where I worked, the secrets were gods, if you didn’t please them with anything, then everything, consider you weren’t already.

    Just think that the party secretary is not a leading position, as Comrade Stalin did. His only genius is to obtain and maintain power. I do not know more of his brilliant accomplishments.
    1. Captain Nemo
      Captain Nemo 28 December 2017 09: 23 New
      +5
      My friend created an AO with one Spanish company. After 5 years, his secretary, talentedly appeasing the Spanish curator, achieved the dismissal of my comrade and her appointment to the post of director. A year later, the business died
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 28 December 2017 09: 33 New
        +4
        Your "comrade" is worthless, and you are talentless, since all your dubious business was ruined by one secretary.
        And you still have something in negative assessments, like a claim to Stalin, if your level is ... secretaries with low social behavior ..
        1. Captain Nemo
          Captain Nemo 29 December 2017 01: 15 New
          +2
          When I have my own business, I will call you to check the secretary
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 29 December 2017 11: 06 New
            0
            Quote: Captain Nemo
            When I have my own business, I will call you to check the secretary

            You won’t have anything, in order to have that same business, you have to be a smart person, and you, everything ends at the secretary level .. what kind of business is there ..
    2. shuravi
      shuravi 28 December 2017 09: 32 New
      10
      Quote: Spook
      I do not know more of his brilliant accomplishments.


      What to do, ignorance in our time is quite a mass phenomenon. Especially among liberal-minded. After all, they are against any violence against a person to whom education refers. hi
      1. Spook
        Spook 28 December 2017 10: 12 New
        +1
        That's the "problem" in no way liberal, and even horror, Comrade Stalin is the idol of my youth, but it's time to honestly look into the eyes - what are its accomplishments? except for slogans and general phrases.

        And honestly admires how with such an economic theory, with the people who survived the surplus appropriation and dispossession, he retained power, retained it including reflecting external attacks, the atomic bomb and armored armada certainly his merit.

        But what was done for the country and not for itself? Ideology was only an instrument of this power.
        1. Tula gingerbread
          Tula gingerbread 28 December 2017 15: 01 New
          +7
          Do you know what the economy was like under Stalin? That besides state property, the private one, which is awful !!! During the war, even produced shells, not to mention the uniform, and equipment.
          Stalin strictly monitored the correspondence of the money supply and the quantity (cost) of goods produced, and therefore there was no shortage.
          With an increase in the output of goods, it was not wages that raised but lowered prices, again bringing the ratio to equilibrium.
          Khrushchev broke the system and began to raise his salary at a faster pace, which led to a deficit.
      2. Tula gingerbread
        Tula gingerbread 28 December 2017 14: 56 New
        +6
        Yes, even compare Stalin with the secretary. A complete misunderstanding of the hierarchy in the CPSU.
        Apparently this character is not aware that Lenin regarded Stalin as one of his successors.
        In general, as you rightly said, it is blatant illiteracy. However, it is characteristic of many of the USE generation.
        1. Spook
          Spook 28 December 2017 15: 17 New
          +1
          I agree except:
          Khrushchev broke the system and began to raise his salary at a faster pace, which led to a deficit.

          There, in my opinion, the question was solved that in the economy there can exist such a thing as "profit" and then inflation appeared.

          Yes, even compare Stalin with the secretary. A complete misunderstanding of the hierarchy in the CPSU.

          What are your arguments ?, Stalin was simply engaged in secretarial work, thanks to which he was aware of all things and could pull the strings.

          Apparently this character is not aware that Lenin regarded Stalin as one of his successors.

          I fundamentally disagree, see "Lenin's testament" or YOUR ARGUMENTS?
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 28 December 2017 16: 02 New
            +4
            Quote: Spook
            I fundamentally disagree, see "Lenin's testament" or YOUR ARGUMENTS?

            See what? The Trotsky version? Discuss the argument of the person who crap the country?
            And this is for you to study ..
            Now about the "testament" of Lenin. Oppositionists shouted here - you heard this - that the Central Committee of the party "hid" Lenin's "testament". Several times this question was discussed at our plenum of the Central Committee and Central Control Commission, you know that. It was proved and proved that no one was hiding anything, that Lenin’s “testament” was addressed to the XIII Party Congress, that it, this “testament”, was announced at the congress, that the congress decided unanimously not to publish it, by the way, because that Lenin himself did not want and did not demand. The opposition knows all this no worse than all of us. Nevertheless, the opposition has the courage to declare that the Central Committee "hides" the "will".
            ... On what basis now Trotsky, Zinoviev and Kamenev are wandering the tongue, claiming that the party and its Central Committee are "hiding" Lenin's "testament"? Fornicating the language is “possible”, but one must know the measure.
            (“Trotskyist Opposition Before and Now,” Vol. 10, p. 173.)
            It is said that in this "testament" comrade Lenin proposed that the congress, in view of Stalin’s “rudeness”, consider the question of replacing Stalin as general secretary with another comrade. This is absolutely true. Yes, I am rude, comrades, towards those who rudely and treacherously destroy and split the party. I did not hide it and do not hide it. It is possible that a certain gentleness is required here in relation to schismatics. But this does not work out for me. At the very first meeting of the plenum of the Central Committee after the XIII Congress, I asked the plenum of the Central Committee to relieve me of the duties of Secretary General. The congress itself discussed this question. Each delegation discussed this issue, and all delegations unanimously, including Trotsky, Kamenev, Zinoviev, obliged Stalin to remain at his post.
            What could I do? Escape the post? This is not in my nature, I have never run away from any posts and I have no right to run away, for this would be desertion. Man, as I said before, is bonded, and when the party obliges, I must obey.
            A year after that, I again filed a plenary application for release, but I was again obliged to remain on the post.
            What else could I do?
            ("Trotskyist Opposition Before and Now" v.10 p. 175)
            It is clear that talking about what the party is hiding these documents is a vile slander. This includes documents such as Lenin’s letters about the need to expel Zinoviev and Kamenev from the party. It never happened that the Bolshevik Party, that the Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party were afraid of the truth. The strength of the Bolshevik Party lies precisely in the fact that it is not afraid of the truth and looks directly into its eyes. The opposition is trying to trump Lenin's "testament". Before you just read this "testament" to understand that they have nothing to trump. On the contrary, Lenin’s “testament” kills the current opposition leaders.
            (“Trotskyist Opposition Before and Now,” Vol. 10, p. 176.)
            It is characteristic that not a single word, not a single hint is in the "testament" about the mistakes of Stalin. It speaks only of the rudeness of Stalin. But rudeness is not and cannot be a flaw in the political line or position of Stalin.
            (“Trotskyist Opposition Before and Now,” Vol. 10, p. 177.)
            1. Spook
              Spook 28 December 2017 16: 27 New
              +1
              By the way, I recall reading these words, like in Stalin’s biography, I don’t remember the author. But as for the will, this is at least a moot point.

              As much as possible, be right. Well, but this does not cancel the argument about cannibalism.

              I read a lot of good things from Stalin, my last favorite is increasing labor productivity and a 5-hour working day. It only annoys what they wanted to make us happy by force, all the more the concepts of happiness can be different for everyone. At the same time, those who did not fit into this way at all - they were shot or camps.

              Well, it’s also impossible if someone does not agree - to shoot him? earlier if someone is rich - to dispossess him?
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 28 December 2017 19: 17 New
                +3
                Quote: Spook
                Well, but this does not cancel the argument about cannibalism.

                Whose arguments? All these arguments, in fact the dregs are utter.
                Criminals of all stripes issued as “innocent” are your arguments?
                1. Tula gingerbread
                  Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 31 New
                  +2
                  Exactly. They all rehabilitated in a crowd, it was enough to say that he or someone else’s relative was “innocently repressed.” By the way, article 58 is not only about political points.
    3. VS
      VS 28 December 2017 11: 02 New
      +2
      and type - the people contrary to secrets from medieval plows to atomic technologies came ??))
      1. Spook
        Spook 28 December 2017 11: 07 New
        +2
        ))) there is an analogy like with Peter I, I remember the teacher told us so Russia became great, but he plagued the people decently ...

        For people, what happened? The people then lived quite normally, only they dispossessed them a little and arranged a "small genocide", and they lived so normally

        Atomic technology was a kind of thing to the people, but I wanted to live.
        1. Tula gingerbread
          Tula gingerbread 28 December 2017 15: 02 New
          +3
          Yes, of course, the people were figs, everyone wanted to go back to the caves and animal skins, he didn’t need progress on figs. fool
        2. badens1111
          badens1111 28 December 2017 16: 04 New
          +4
          Quote: Spook
          The people then lived quite normally, only they dispossessed them a little and staged a "small genocide"

          Again a lie.
          So wrote Zemskov, who worked a lot in the study of that period.
          "... simple Soviet citizens for the most part knew little or nothing at all about the repressions, the victims of which were many thousands of innocent people, and first heard about this only after the famous speech of N. Khrushchev at the XX Congress of the CPSU in 1956" ( S.120).

          5) “They do not understand, for example, how it was possible to fight for the land that the Soviet power“ took away from the peasants ”,“ seized ”,“ confiscated ”,“ expropriated ”, etc. Meanwhile, all this argument would be valid only in that case, if the "selected" land was transferred to some other owners, but it would remain in the collective ownership of the same peasants. The whole array of historical sources that we have at hand shows irrefutably that Soviet peasants for the most part did not consider collective farm land as supposedly alien and by no means intended to give it to foreign conquerors without a fight ”(P.123).

          6) “Of course, there were anti-Soviet, anti-Bolshevik and anti-Stalinist sentiments in society. But do not exaggerate their scale. The existing socio-political system in the USSR had massive support - most people were devoted to it. He personified with the embodied ideals of the October Revolution of 1917, and the Soviet state itself in the consciousness of millions of people was perceived as the only state in the world of workers and peasants. Therefore, in the event of military danger, Soviet citizens for the most part were ready to defend not only their homeland, their state, irrespective of its political structure, but also the socio-political system that had developed in the USSR, its social and political system ”(P.114)

          7) “In fact, a new civilization has developed on the sixth of the globe. It was a unique civilization, analogues of which were not in the history of mankind either in the past or in the present. ” (S.113) http://www.great-country.ru/articles/sssr/sov_gov
          ernor / stalin / 00133.html
          1. Spook
            Spook 28 December 2017 16: 33 New
            +2
            Until recently, I thought so too, until some facts led me to other thoughts. Well, firstly - my grandfather spoke very differently, no one went for the attack for Stalin. The people fought for themselves. I was young, thought oh well grandfather may well, not everyone knows.

            Secondly, as we missed 42 and until 43 the fascist drove us both in the tail and in the mane, the answer came to me by looking at the situation in Ukraine, where "the most powerful army in Europe" is made by "miners and drivers". And why ? Yes, because no one wants to fight for this power. I think in 42 there could be something similar.

            And the methods of retaining power are similar, what analogies can be drawn between Russia 42 and Ukraine now.
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 28 December 2017 19: 18 New
              +1
              Quote: Spook
              Secondly,

              Again utter nonsense and demagoguery.
              1. Tula gingerbread
                Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 35 New
                +2
                What other nonsense. The man must have been reading corned beef with Rezun. Of course, with shouts “I didn’t go for the attack, I didn’t scream very much on the run. But I went up to the attack with calls for Homeland, FOR Stalin, very often and this is a fact confirmed by many veterans. I had to work with many.
    4. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 28 December 2017 11: 45 New
      +9
      Spook Today, 08:58
      I don’t know more of his brilliant accomplishments. "

      According to the plans of the Third Reich, you should not have been born ...
      If you do not know "more of his brilliant accomplishments." Then you are not ...
      Marshal of the USSR GK Zhukov about Stalin willow as commander
      Marshal of the USSR DF Ustinov OI In Stalin as the leader of the economy in wartime
      1. Spook
        Spook 28 December 2017 12: 54 New
        +2
        I LAUGH IN YOU FACE !!! COMRADE STALIN BLIN

        MY GRANDFATHER is who thanks to me I was born, comrade Stalin pissed off everything, 42 years old, 43 pissed away, and then people like my grandfather stood up and gave the Nazis a pesdof, and the charge of victory allowed Comrade Stalin and others to take off another 70 years when those who remembered died victory !!!

        STALIN hell hell, MY GRANDFATHER GOT THIS VICTORY !!!!

        if you cool down a bit and think essentially of the “genius commander”, then he became one by the end of the war, at least that’s what they taught us in history, I didn’t go deep
        1. wax
          wax 28 December 2017 14: 43 New
          +4
          Grandfather did his duty, and Stalin did his. And these debts are disproportionate in value in the Second World War. Comparable only in the moral sense.
          1. Spook
            Spook 28 December 2017 14: 54 New
            +1
            My grandfather at the age of 19 went into partisans and also partisans nailed to the Belarusian Front, and only there he began to fulfill some kind of state duty, before that he simply beat the invaders of his land, like many

            And those who performed the state duty, what to say about them ... disappeared for a week ...
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 28 December 2017 16: 08 New
              +7
              Quote: Spook
              My grandfather at the age of 19 went into partisans and also partisans nailed to the Belarusian Front, and only there he began to fulfill some kind of state duty, before that he simply beat the invaders of his land, like many

              Loud, on the verge of ultrasound, but .. not convincing.
              Who created, armed and supplied partisan detachments?
              According to your logic, is the crowd stronger than an organized detachment? Well, why didn’t the Germans already be driven out by the crowd, headed by your grandfather, by 1942, let alone 1943?
              You are lying here, of course, smoothly, but here’s a hitch, your lies didn’t determine the course of that war, nor its consequences, except for one, like you just scattered in the dust what grandfathers defended.
        2. Tula gingerbread
          Tula gingerbread 28 December 2017 15: 08 New
          10
          Well, that’s all. Points on And are placed. You don't seem to know basic things. The people of course are a great power and your grandfather as part of the people. But a people without leadership, just a crowd.
          Soldiers without commanders - an armed crowd that is not capable of anything, not like Victory.
          Stalin, as the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, People’s Commissar of Defense, Chairman of the GKO, made it possible and equipped everything (not one of course, but he was at the head of everything) of your grandfather and millions of others so that they could win the Victory.
          You are trying to deny this, which is very unworthy and illiterate. This is to say the least.
          1. Spook
            Spook 28 December 2017 15: 30 New
            +1
            I do not deny the role of the command at all, I just try to hint that the People slightly sabotaged the authorities and did not like the Communists, only having understood that either we were fighting together or the people were fighting.

            Is it necessary to give evidence about the "dislike" of the common people for Soviet power?
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 28 December 2017 16: 10 New
              +6
              Quote: Spook
              Is it necessary to give evidence about the "dislike" of the common people for Soviet power?

              You don’t have them. There are only defectors of various kinds, and frank traitors, what is the price to them, everyone saw after-when they gave everyone punishment at the hearings of the tribunals. "Of course, there were anti-Soviet, anti-Bolshevik and anti-Stalinist sentiments in society. But do not exaggerate their scale. The existing socio-political system in the USSR had massive support - most people were devoted to it. He personified with the embodied ideals of the October Revolution of 1917, and the Soviet state itself in the consciousness of millions of people was perceived as the only state in the world of workers and peasants. Therefore, in the event of military danger, Soviet citizens for the most part were ready to defend not only their homeland, their state, irrespective of its political structure, but also the socio-political system that had developed in the USSR, its social and political system ”(P.114)

              7) “In fact, a new civilization has developed on the sixth of the globe. It was a unique civilization, analogues of which were not in the history of mankind either in the past or in the present. ” (P.113) In 2014, the book “Stalin and the People: Why There Was No Rebellion” was published, in which Viktor Zemskov arranged everything as it is.
            2. Tula gingerbread
              Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 37 New
              +1
              [i] [/ i] The evidence of the Vlasovites is not interesting to me. Corned beef, and B. Sokolova, too, leave yourself.
            3. Maki Avellevich
              Maki Avellevich 29 December 2017 10: 19 New
              +1
              Quote: Spook
              do you need to bring evidence of "dislike" of the common people to Soviet power?


              you are right, but you forget that dislike of various degrees takes place for any nation to have any kind of power.
              people need power, but there is always a cognitive dissonance and he does not really like it.
              let's say the relationship of the creditor and the bank
        3. To be or not to be
          To be or not to be 28 December 2017 15: 16 New
          +2
          The toast raised by Stalin for the Russian people is short. Here is its full text:

          "Comrades, let me raise another, last toast. I would like to raise a toast to the health of our Soviet people and, above all, the Russian people. I drink, first of all, to the health of the Russian people because it is the most outstanding of the nations, members of the Soviet Union. I raise a toast to the health of the Russian people because it has earned general recognition in this war as the leading force of the Soviet Union among all the peoples of our country. I raise a toast to the health of the Russian people not only because it is the leading people, but also because he has a clear mind, persistent character and patience.

          Our government had many mistakes, we had moments of desperate situation in 1941-1942, when our army retreated, left our native villages and cities of Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, the Leningrad Region, the Baltic States, the Karelian-Finnish Republic, and therefore left that there was no other way. Other people could tell the government: you did not live up to our expectations, go away, we will put another government that will conclude peace with Germany and provide us with peace. But the Russian people did not go for it, for they believed in the correctness of the policies of their Government and made sacrifices to ensure the defeat of Germany. And this confidence of the Russian people in the Soviet government turned out to be the decisive force that ensured a historic victory over the enemy of mankind - over fascism.

          Thanks to him, the Russian people, for this trust!

          For the health of the Russian people! "
          And so that it would be clear to you. Even in 1934 (and even earlier) Stalin spoke about the impending war and its results - Victory of the USSR
          1. reg
            reg 28 December 2017 22: 06 New
            0
            Quote: To be or not to be
            And so that it would be clear to you. Even in 1934 (and even earlier) Stalin spoke about the impending war and its results - Victory of the USSR

            Why didn’t they win?
            1. Tula gingerbread
              Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 38 New
              +6
              What? The USSR lost the war of Germany? Clinic.
        4. Nitochkin
          Nitochkin 28 December 2017 15: 36 New
          +9
          I think that your grandfather, having read these grandson’s ravings about Stalin, would have torn you like a goat, would not have looked at your age.
          1. Spook
            Spook 28 December 2017 16: 37 New
            +2
            In fact, everything was on the back, I convinced my grandfather that communism is cool and the Soviet army is all the stronger, though the grandfather was only silent. He just sometimes said that he didn’t watch films about the war, they drove us into the neck of the Fritz.

            And we didn’t have a cannibalistic method of warfare, which is only worth it, "they still give birth."
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 28 December 2017 19: 19 New
              +7
              Quote: Spook
              And we didn’t have a cannibalistic method of warfare, which is only worth it, "they still give birth."

              And here lies, Zhukov did not say this. And there are enough orders for the preservation of personnel, with his own signature.
              1. reg
                reg 28 December 2017 22: 04 New
                +1
                Quote: badens1111
                Zhukov. And there are enough orders for the preservation of personnel, with his signature.

                Apparently therefore, he flooded to the Zeelovskie heights with spotlights. And he put a bunch of people and technology there. Even Dzhugashvili, to whom the people were before the star, did a stick for Zhukov’s technique.
                1. Tula gingerbread
                  Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 40 New
                  +7
                  Young man, in the Berlin operation, Zhukov’s troops suffered less losses than Konev’s troops. Learn the subject and do not try to clog up the forum with gossip. There are so many articles about the Second World War and about the beginning and about all operations in the archive, read and educate.
                2. badens1111
                  badens1111 29 December 2017 11: 17 New
                  +1
                  Quote: reg
                  Apparently

                  Apparently you are cool taught to lie, it is a fact, you wrote absolutely all liberal myths here, but not a gram of truth.
              2. Tula gingerbread
                Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 38 New
                +2
                You see the full back pressure of liberal gossip and scam.
            2. shuravi
              shuravi 28 December 2017 22: 03 New
              +4
              Quote: Spook
              In fact, everything was on the back, I convinced my grandfather that communism is cool and the Soviet army is all the stronger, though the grandfather was only silent. He just sometimes said that he didn’t watch films about the war, they drove us into the neck of the Fritz.

              And we didn’t have a cannibalistic method of warfare, which is only worth it, "they still give birth."


              Excuse me, did your grandfather fight in Soviet partisans?
              1. Spook
                Spook 29 December 2017 08: 26 New
                +1
                Funny yes, my grandfather was a partisan, a saboteur, crossed the front line twice, liberated Berlin, for me he is a great hero.

                He did not say anything anti-Soviet, only Ur did not shout and somehow made him take a sober look at the war. People did not fight for the party. They began to fight for themselves.
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 29 December 2017 11: 18 New
                  +1
                  You're lying. Impudent and unprincipled, the question is why are you lying like that?
                  1. Spook
                    Spook 29 December 2017 14: 04 New
                    +2
                    Vladimir Putin in an interview with American director Oliver Stone:
                    About Stalin
                    Stalin was a product of his era. You can demonize him as much as you like and, on the other hand, talk about his merits in the victory over Nazism as much as you like. As for its demonization. Here in English history there was such a figure as Cromwell. He was a bloody man, came in the wake of revolutionary transformations, turned into a dictator and tyrant. And its monuments still stand everywhere in the UK. Napoleon is generally idolized. What he did? In the wake of the revolution, he came to power and not only restored the monarchy, but also declared himself emperor. And he led France to a national catastrophe, complete defeat. There are more than enough such characters, such situations in world history.

                    It seems to me that the excessive demonization of Stalin is one of the ways, one of the ways of attacking the Soviet Union and Russia. Show that today's Russia bears some birthmarks of Stalinism. We all carry some birthmarks, so what. Of course, something remains in the mind, but this does not mean that we must forget all the horrors of Stalinism associated with concentration camps and the destruction of millions of our compatriots.


                    I fully support this point of view. Tell me in these words there is a lie?
                    1. Nitochkin
                      Nitochkin 31 December 2017 16: 18 New
                      +2
                      Of the millions destroyed, he certainly bent.
        5. shuravi
          shuravi 28 December 2017 21: 57 New
          +2
          Yes, you do not shine with your mind.
          There is not a single case when the army could defeat in spite of the commander.
      2. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 29 December 2017 01: 17 New
        0
        Marshal Ustinov? Doooo ... And what units, divisions and formations did this “marshal” command during his military career? Ksk companies won?
    5. Hlavaty
      Hlavaty 28 December 2017 12: 49 New
      10
      Quote: Spook
      His only genius is to obtain and maintain power.

      Yes, you are probably right. "There is only a nuance" smile
      In order to “gain and maintain power,” Stalin needed: to restore the country after the collapse of the civil war (in which he himself participated), and not just restore, but to make an industrial country out of an agrarian country, create a new (and still better) public education system, develop science to a world level, create a powerful military-industrial complex, win the Second World War, create nuclear weapons, lay the foundation for space exploration, and so on and so on ...
      And the rest, yes - nothing special smile
      1. Spook
        Spook 28 December 2017 12: 57 New
        +1
        One in one word that we are told in history about Peter I, only ideology does not prevent us from saying at what cost this was achieved.

        You understand, you will not bite a nuclear bomb, this is only a tool, but what is it for? to maintain power to use it or for the independence of the country and the good of the people? here is the nuance ...
        1. Hlavaty
          Hlavaty 28 December 2017 14: 11 New
          +5
          Quote: Spook
          You understand, you will not bite a nuclear bomb, this is only a tool, but what is it for? to maintain power to use it or for the independence of the country and the good of the people? here is the nuance ...

          The nuance is that you use words without thinking about what they mean. You constantly repeat “keep power” and it seems you don’t understand that “power” does not hang in a vacuum and does not exist separately from the country and people. You yourself drew a picture in which “power” is some kind of fuss in the Kremlin, and the country and people at that time live somewhere on another planet.
          In order for "power" to make sense, it must have an object for its application.
          Power is the ability to dispose of some object (country, people, tribe, etc.). Therefore, the issue of "preserving power" is always inextricably linked with the preservation of the object. For example, Gorbachev failed to maintain the object of his power - the USSR. He took power, you understand, but his little hands were full of holes. The USSR was covered up - the object of power (more vile and nimble was dragged to pieces), the power itself disappeared. And now Gorbachev is an empty place.
          A nuclear bomb is not necessary. It is intended for another - to preserve the object of power and protect it from other comers. Stalin managed not only to preserve, but also to significantly develop the object of his power. For what the object (people) will remember him for many centuries smile
          1. Spook
            Spook 28 December 2017 14: 31 New
            +2
            do not believe it, but that is exactly what I mean
            do not understand that "power" does not hang in a vacuum and does not exist separately from the country and people


            I’ll tell you about the war, my grandfather once told me that we would have lost the war, I tell him and this plan to transfer industry to the Urals helped us win, my grandfather said nothing would help us win, we would have lost to the Nazis.

            Grandfather knows what he says, went through the whole war and took Berlin, on vacation in Berlin he even knew Yegorov and Kantaria, for me he is a reinforced concrete authority.

            Grandfather said if the people had not been touched, they would have lost, nobody needed this power.

            War helped to bring power closer to the object of power, the charge of victory gave a positive impetus to the whole system!

            And the fact that the government protected the object of power is understandable.

            Only now there were no banal things like the presence of feedback in the system. The fundamental things of ideology that ensure the existence of a power structure to criticize was life threatening.
            1. Nitochkin
              Nitochkin 28 December 2017 15: 38 New
              +3
              But no, I was wrong about the goat goat. An apple does not fall far from an apple tree.
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 28 December 2017 16: 12 New
                +3
                From the curve of the aspen, oranges will not be born .. in the case of your opponent, despite his clumsy excuses, this is more than obvious. "Grandfather" is more of a virtual haze, under the mask of which thoughts of this character are pushed into society ..
            2. Yuri Guliy
              Yuri Guliy 28 December 2017 19: 56 New
              +2
              I agree with Spook. I believe only what my relatives told me, and all the howls of full-time and contingent howls are a breeze to me.
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 29 December 2017 11: 19 New
                +1
                Quote: Yuri Guliy
                full-time and contingent howls

                Well, you don’t need to blast and howl on topics that in a decent society cause a different reaction, up to the use of a candelabra
            3. shuravi
              shuravi 28 December 2017 22: 08 New
              +4
              Quote: Spook
              do not believe it, but that is exactly what I mean
              do not understand that "power" does not hang in a vacuum and does not exist separately from the country and people


              I’ll tell you about the war, my grandfather once told me that we would have lost the war, I tell him and this plan to transfer industry to the Urals helped us win, my grandfather said nothing would help us win, we would have lost to the Nazis.

              Grandfather knows what he says, went through the whole war and took Berlin, on vacation in Berlin he even knew Yegorov and Kantaria, for me he is a reinforced concrete authority.

              Grandfather said if the people had not been touched, they would have lost, nobody needed this power.


              Sorry, but your grandfather can only speak for himself. But not for the people.
              1. The comment was deleted.
            4. Hlavaty
              Hlavaty 28 December 2017 22: 48 New
              +1
              Quote: Spook
              Grandfather knows what he says, went through the whole war and took Berlin, on vacation in Berlin he even knew Yegorov and Kantaria, for me he is a reinforced concrete authority.

              I deeply respect your grandfather for his feat, and I understand that for you he is an authority. But at the same time, I cannot but note that system analysis is not its strong point. Try to go beyond your grandfather (as befits descendants in normal evolution) - try to look at Stalin's time from the side. It was difficult for your grandfather to do this: he was inside the situation. You are outside, you see the results of the activities of both Stalin and his followers - you have something to analyze and what to compare. Do not get hung up on the opinion of the grandfather, grab your own.
        2. wax
          wax 28 December 2017 14: 45 New
          +2
          Without a nuclear bomb, you would have been left without teeth, others would have nibbled.
          1. Spook
            Spook 28 December 2017 15: 09 New
            +1
            I read a very interesting study where the schedule for financing the Adik party was compared with the actions of the USSR, let's say, hostile to Western countries, there is a very good correlation. Well, they were not from scratch were hostile.

            I’m not saying that the west is white and fluffy, but in the current situation you see that the degree of aggressiveness in the same Putin’s Russia is significantly different at different times, there were times when they thought that we were even on the way, and we weren’t on the way.

            and of course you’re right, you had to defend yourself, but it was already a loss, you couldn’t allow a revolution, we lost in World War I and waves of defeat have already gone on

            and the defeat of tsarist Russia began with the degradation of, let's say, the morally moral foundations of the state
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 28 December 2017 16: 15 New
              +3
              Quote: Spook
              I’m not saying that the West is white and fluffy, but in the current situation you see that the degree of aggressiveness in the same Putin Russia

              Well, the liberal dude has sailed to the logical result of his chatter .. then Stalin is not nice to him, now it turns out Russia under Putin, then it’s bad ..
              Quote: Spook
              it was necessary to defend ourselves, but it was already a loss, it was impossible to allow a revolution, we lost back to World War I and waves of defeat have already gone on
              and the defeat of tsarist Russia began with the degradation of, let's say, the morally moral foundations of the state

              Oh her, how many words ... what’s the point? Try to hang noodles here, they say Russia chose the wrong path?
              It’s not your business, our path, without you and your gossip with myths, we’ll go through. But where you roll along with the west is already obvious.
    6. sergo1914
      sergo1914 28 December 2017 13: 50 New
      +1
      Quote: Spook
      I see all the genius of Comrade Stalin only in the fact that this man managed to gain power and maintain it.

      Imagine you have a secret at work, and in the process of intrigue, promoting your people, hiding, destroying competitors, she begins to lead everyone. It was possible to laugh about it, but I personally witnessed this state of affairs at one factory where I worked, the secrets were gods, if you didn’t please them with anything, then everything, consider you weren’t already.

      Just think that the party secretary is not a leading position, as Comrade Stalin did. His only genius is to obtain and maintain power. I do not know more of his brilliant accomplishments.


      I feel sorry for you. Sincerely.
    7. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 28 December 2017 14: 44 New
      +2
      = His only genius is to obtain and maintain power. I do not know more of his brilliant accomplishments. = And with these words you yourself signed your ignorance. Suppose and hope that only in this matter.
      1. Spook
        Spook 28 December 2017 14: 59 New
        +3
        You yourself have signed your ignorance.


        Yes, I’m all hoping for a discussion, and not for srach, I want the arguments of the opposite side, the only thing that is from the category of "accepted in bast shoes, left with the atomic bomb."

        and some other unclear about the belonging of the bowels of the people

        Somehow one thing was explained to me to have a right, and another thing was the opportunity to realize it, the Constitution of the USSR gave a lot of rights ...
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 28 December 2017 15: 21 New
          14
          Spook, just give no offense. This is just for comparison. What do you think can be a discussion between a mathematics teacher and a third-grader on, say, trigonometric functions. Agree, the student, at least, needs to study this material himself, and not think that he has enough for the discussion of what he heard from his older sister on this topic. Try yourself, and not in someone else's retelling, to read at least a few works of Stalin. Give it a try. I am sure you will be dumbfounded by the depth of thought of this failed seminarist. Sincerely, Krasnoyarsk
          1. Nitochkin
            Nitochkin 28 December 2017 15: 39 New
            +3
            +100500. Well said.
          2. Spook
            Spook 28 December 2017 16: 45 New
            +2
            There is common sense, I have not read the works of Stalin, I read it.

            I was hoping someone could explain to me:
            1. Overwrap
            2. Repression
            3. Camps
            4. Lost 42
            5. Labor productivity in the economy and the economy itself
            6. 1992 year

            I’m closer - you will recognize them by their fruits.
            1. reg
              reg 28 December 2017 17: 19 New
              +4
              Dzhugashvili had nothing to do with food extra. For then his name was "nobody." And they called him, "no way." This is the crime of other Bolsheviks. Under the leadership of Ulyanov.
              The "acts" of Dzhugashvili began around December 1925, with the Fourteenth Congress of the CPSU (B.). The main one was, of course, the "socialism" he invented. The introduction of which he began in December 1927, at the XV Congress of the CPSU (B.). Totalitarian sects of the whole world nervously and enviously smoke on the sidelines. Some sob in the bushes. For Dzhugashvilevsky "socialism", this is their apotheosis. The crown of totalitarian architecture.
              Moreover, that totalitarian sect is no longer there. And the sectarians are still full.
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 28 December 2017 19: 21 New
                +3
                Quote: reg
                Moreover, that totalitarian sect is no longer there. And the sectarians are still full.

                Liberoids, something that doesn’t eat any extremes bordering on medicine? Like you and your sectarian writings?
                1. reg
                  reg 28 December 2017 19: 27 New
                  +1
                  Tobacco and left a mark here. Directly omnipresent of some kind.
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 29 December 2017 11: 21 New
                    0
                    Quote: reg
                    Tobacco and left a mark here.

                    Are you about yourself? Self-critical, you are all crap.
            2. shuravi
              shuravi 28 December 2017 22: 22 New
              +3
              Quote: Spook
              There is common sense, I have not read the works of Stalin, I read it.

              I was hoping someone could explain to me:
              1. Overwrap


              But was it introduced during the time of Stalin?
              And you think it was introduced just like that, out of harm?
              And can you propose another solution in those conditions? Despite the fact that there is no time for “an effective owner to fill the market”.

              2. Repression


              Not repression, but investigation of crimes with subsequent punishment.

              3. Camps


              So there are prisons now.

              4. Lost 42


              Do you think that the Germans were fools and did not know how to fight?

              5. Labor productivity in the economy and the economy itself


              The economy was normal. What problems?

              6. 1992 year


              What does Stalin have to do with it? Oh yes, because it happened that he was not there.
            3. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 29 December 2017 12: 52 New
              +2
              Quote: Spook
              There is common sense, I have not read the works of Stalin, I read it.

              I was hoping someone could explain to me:
              1. Overwrap
              2. Repression
              3. Camps
              4. Lost 42
              5. Labor productivity in the economy and the economy itself
              6. 1992 year

              I’m closer - you will recognize them by their fruits.

              The questions you have asked are well answered; Stalin, Yu.I. Mukhin, in their War and Us, Anti-Russian Meanness, Crusade to the East, and others. Grover Ferr Anti-Stalin Meanness, A.K.Dmitriev. "Deceived humanity," Menshagin, I do not remember the initials, he was a lawyer from the late 20s to 41g. in Smolensk. Then there was something like the governor of Smolensk under the Germans. Then the imprisonment in the “Gulag”, as innocently repressed. Where he writes his memoirs. Read, you will not regret it. And, most importantly, you will understand a lot. Of course, if you want to understand. But no, well, so you will sing from someone else's voice.
              1. Spook
                Spook 29 December 2017 14: 09 New
                0
                I’ll definitely get acquainted, I copied it to my bookmarks, thanks!
          3. reg
            reg 28 December 2017 17: 06 New
            +2
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Try yourself, and not in someone else's retelling, to read at least a few works of Stalin. Give it a try. I am sure you will be dumbfounded by the depth of thought of this failed seminarist.

            Or is it better to judge a person by his deeds? And in this case, according to his atrocities? And not according to his paper.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 29 December 2017 13: 02 New
              +2
              Quote: reg
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              Try yourself, and not in someone else's retelling, to read at least a few works of Stalin. Give it a try. I am sure you will be dumbfounded by the depth of thought of this failed seminarist.

              Or is it better to judge a person by his deeds? And in this case, according to his atrocities? And not according to his paper.

              Are his "atrocities" proven in court? And, you will not believe it, you tried to prove his crimes in court. The question is why no one knows about this process? Yes, because he failed miserably !!! Look for court materials! But for some reason I’m sure that you will not do this. Agree, I don’t really want to admit myself .., well, in general, you understand.
          4. Maki Avellevich
            Maki Avellevich 29 December 2017 10: 25 New
            +2
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Try yourself, and not in someone else's retelling, to read at least a few works of Stalin. Give it a try. I am sure you will be dumbfounded by the depth of thought of this failed seminarist. Sincerely, Krasnoyarsk


            downloaded Stalin's collected works. listened in the car on the way to work.
            written clearly, clearly. the logic is strong. some kind of bloodthirsty idiologies like the French revolutionaries did not notice.
            impressed.
        2. Tula gingerbread
          Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 08: 46 New
          +8
          What is the discussion? You don’t give any facts, any arguments based on documents,
          You say-Stalin is a man-eater. And what is it to refute? What discussion do you want? What they answered the same way- no, Stalin is not an eater?
          Or this is- Stalin's only merit is that he retained power. How should this answer you?
          Typical trollism, give out an unsubstantiated phrase and trade from an opponent a detailed objection, with numbers, facts, links to documents?
          No, you yourself first learn how to lead a discussion, and then demand this from others.
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 29 December 2017 13: 04 New
            +3
            Bravo, gingerbread !!!
  13. Vasya Vassin
    Vasya Vassin 28 December 2017 09: 16 New
    +6
    I recognized this actress from a new perspective. wink Clever women happen!
  14. Captain Nemo
    Captain Nemo 28 December 2017 09: 21 New
    +4
    Are you bored? Somehow they forget that this great man in his youth was engaged in what qualifies as robbery and candidacy, raising money for the party box office. And his education is an incomplete seminary course. Apparently, none of the relatives of the one who squeezed here these memoirs of a famous lady of not very difficult behavior was not re-educated in the camps and was not criticized by a bullet for incorrect political views
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 28 December 2017 09: 30 New
      10
      Quote: Captain Nemo
      Are you bored?

      By landing similar to you, in places not so remote, for your unprincipled lies and slander against Stalin and our country.
      1. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 29 December 2017 01: 18 New
        +2
        Sazhalka did not grow, my dear
    2. Alex_59
      Alex_59 28 December 2017 11: 02 New
      +6
      Quote: Captain Nemo
      Somehow they forget that this great man in his youth was engaged in what qualifies as robbery and candidacy, raising money for the party box office. And his education is an incomplete seminary course.

      You now casually give a bunch of compliments to Stalin. )))
      With such initial data, and in order to become the leader of the state, and even to bring this state into the leaders of the planet ... Well, it clearly needs to be a capable person.
      1. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 29 December 2017 01: 20 New
        +2
        Talent of IVS does not hold. However, according to the same criteria, if one evaluates one Austrian corporal, one should also admire him.
    3. VS
      VS 28 December 2017 11: 04 New
      +4
      he didn’t deal with exs, but others .. And more often than not - they were Social Revolutionaries of whom he then planted Stach packs)))
    4. Old warrior
      Old warrior 28 December 2017 11: 59 New
      +7
      Few of you Stalin crushed.
    5. sergo1914
      sergo1914 28 December 2017 13: 57 New
      +7
      Quote: Captain Nemo
      Are you bored? Somehow they forget that this great man in his youth was engaged in what qualifies as robbery and candidacy, raising money for the party box office. And his education is an incomplete seminary course. Apparently, none of the relatives of the one who squeezed here these memoirs of a famous lady of not very difficult behavior was not re-educated in the camps and was not criticized by a bullet for incorrect political views


      The current president is a former employee of the KGB of the USSR and a former member of the CPSU. He participated in the destruction of the state, which he swore to defend. What is worse: betrayal of the motherland or banditry? Ex-Stalin-babble in comparison with the current state monopolies and private property in the subsoil. Corruption at the state level is how?
      1. Tula gingerbread
        Tula gingerbread 28 December 2017 15: 35 New
        +6
        With all due respect to you, but Stalin did not participate in the ex.
        That famous robbery of the postal carriage in Tiflis was carried out by Kamo (Ter-Petrosyan) and Krasin.
        But you are right that the ex-Bolsheviks, in comparison with the now unseen robbery of the country and its citizens, are babble.
      2. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 29 December 2017 01: 21 New
        0
        And why are you so bold, but anonymously criticizing the current president? It is necessary with open visor to write a request in the UK
    6. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 28 December 2017 14: 52 New
      +2
      1
      Captain Nemo = And his education is an incomplete seminary course = With these words you “pleased” me with your level of education. What is called - below the plinth.
      1. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 29 December 2017 01: 25 New
        +1
        But Wikipedia claims that Stalin’s education is an incomplete course at the Tbilisi Theological Seminary. Refute?
        1. Tula gingerbread
          Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 09: 00 New
          +3
          Do not confuse "graduated from the course" and refused to take final exams. Stalin graduated from the full seminary course.
        2. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 29 December 2017 13: 10 New
          +1
          Academician Sakharov, remember this? Wrote a draft constitution, read. I did not read more insanity. But after all - the academician !!!
    7. wax
      wax 28 December 2017 14: 53 New
      +1
      And his education is an incomplete seminary course.

      Good Russian proverb! In the rephrase: "no matter how you study, you will die a fool anyway."
      1. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 29 December 2017 01: 26 New
        +1
        See above for Wikipedia. To teach to use?
    8. Tula gingerbread
      Tula gingerbread 28 December 2017 15: 32 New
      10
      Show at least one court decision by which Stalin was convicted under criminal articles. Robbery undoubtedly falls under criminal articles.
      So I’ll tell you, Stalin has NEVER been convicted of criminal charges, ONLY for political ones.
      Instead of studying documents and facts, you are spreading the gossip of Messrs. Svanidze, Albats, Gozman, Albats and other "amnuels."
      It is a pity that your parents did not teach you in childhood that lying is not good.
      1. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 29 December 2017 01: 34 New
        +2
        That's right, I wasn’t. And what does this prove? Only that he was not caught hot. And he himself admitted his participation in the exa. It is a pity that you grew up, but did not learn to think and read.
        1. Tula gingerbread
          Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 09: 01 New
          +2
          I didn’t recognize it. Probably read Iskander "Sandro from Chegem."
        2. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 29 December 2017 13: 32 New
          +1
          Quote: Captain Nemo
          That's right, I wasn’t. And what does this prove? Only that he was not caught hot. And he himself admitted his participation in the exa. It is a pity that you grew up, but did not learn to think and read.

          This proves that you killed three, with sadistic cruelty, although this is not proven, but it does not matter.
    9. Vasya Vassin
      Vasya Vassin 28 December 2017 17: 37 New
      +1
      Swim from here- bottom arthropod ....
      1. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 29 December 2017 01: 36 New
        +1
        You, dear, to the pub, with such a lexicon
  15. Altona
    Altona 28 December 2017 09: 22 New
    16
    I always write that Lyubov Orlova had a different attitude to Stalin than she was put up in a cheap serial anti-Stalinist propaganda, where she walks all the time and tells Alexandrov and other friends that Stalin is watching everyone and will shoot everyone almost tomorrow. Orlov there is played by the actress Sudzilovskaya, by the way it does not seem at all. Somehow, such television and movie series are already tiring, where the then time was used to escalate anti-Stalinist hysteria. The credits generally no longer have any consulting historians, military consultants, or archival consultants. Sheer lies called author's vision. Like, the artist, he sees so. Here he sees the genitals of Nureyev and that's it. Correctly, Comrade Stalin exiled the entire artistic and cinema audience to Tashkent, they would have danced in front of the Wehrmacht. There really were many Jews in the form of screenwriters, decorators, cameramen and others. But Lyubov Orlova would hardly have started to lie, because she wrote her memoirs when the name of Stalin began to be extinct from official history, as we see in each new edition of the memoirs of Marshal Zhukov.
    1. Old warrior
      Old warrior 28 December 2017 12: 01 New
      +5
      If you show the Truth, then all the current guardians to the wall must be put.
  16. Altona
    Altona 28 December 2017 09: 25 New
    16
    Quote: Spook
    His only genius is to obtain and maintain power. I do not know more of his brilliant accomplishments.

    ---------------------------------
    Because the petty bourgeois consciousness dictates you only to master the administration of something and cut off this rent. Therefore, you do not see and do not know. What is analytical, diplomatic, organizational, cad
    smooth work is for you a dense forest and a mesh netting. They apparently never led anything and did nothing in their life, therefore you cannot compare.
    1. Spook
      Spook 28 December 2017 10: 18 New
      +2
      Not for the sake of srach, but for the sake of truth. If you emphasize that this is a brilliant leader and organizer - I completely agree.
      The staffing is excellent. Only the purpose of this personnel work was such that the reproducibility of the elites is zero, who came to power after? Bitch, thanks. So personnel work was aimed at maintaining themselves in power?
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 28 December 2017 13: 58 New
        +6
        Quote: Spook
        Not for the sake of srach, but for the sake of truth. If you emphasize that this is a brilliant leader and organizer - I completely agree.
        The staffing is excellent. Only the purpose of this personnel work was such that the reproducibility of the elites is zero, who came to power after? Bitch, thanks. So personnel work was aimed at maintaining themselves in power?


        And now what is the reproducibility of the elites? Reproducibility of Rottenbergs? And, I remembered, the brilliant manager Dmitry Anatolyevich.
        1. Spook
          Spook 28 December 2017 14: 14 New
          +1
          probably this is a classic mistake to fall into the imposed choice of type either A or B for you or Stalin or Putin?
          1. sergo1914
            sergo1914 28 December 2017 14: 20 New
            +2
            Quote: Spook
            probably this is a classic mistake to fall into the imposed choice of type either A or B for you or Stalin or Putin?


            No. But when you accuse one of incompetence, I think you should give the opposite example.
          2. Tula gingerbread
            Tula gingerbread 28 December 2017 15: 38 New
            +5
            The thing is different, the personnel work under Stalin was up to the mark, but the fact that he did not have time to prepare a worthy successor, although they were in the Stalinist cohort of people's commissars.
            I think the reason is that Stalin felt quite well and was not going to die.
            Apparently thought he still has time.
  17. Altona
    Altona 28 December 2017 10: 26 New
    +3
    Quote: Spook
    The staffing is excellent. Only the purpose of this personnel work was such that the reproducibility of the elites is zero, who came to power after? Bitch, thanks. So personnel work was aimed at maintaining themselves in power?

    ------------------------------
    Well, looped again. I’m not talking about Khrushchev, Kaganovich, Malenkov and other celestials who then rushed to share power, to whom are there any crumbs. We are talking about production managers, intelligence leaders, military leaders. You want a lot from one person. Despite the fact that he is constantly in such an environment as it is, and you think that somewhere there were ideal shots that Stalin did not make out or were not allowed to make out. Production were? There were. Warlords? There were. Scouts? There were. Diplomatic work. You try to beat Churchill and Roosevelt at the same time and get arms deliveries from them that were not originally intended for you. And so you have to look everywhere. And it turns out that the alien Bolsheviks flew into Russia and destroyed the good Bulk Khrusts. Then Stalin flew in and destroyed the beautiful Bolsheviks. Then someone else flew in. And so, without genesis, a solid action movie with aliens and zombies.
    1. Spook
      Spook 28 December 2017 10: 41 New
      +1
      So I'm not talking about Khrushchev, I repeat once again, if Stalin were a fool, he would be devoured with giblets either by his own or by strangers. But he is by no means.

      Just imagine you are a leader, let the tribes in Africa and the neighboring tribe are going to scrape your skull from the inside, they don’t like what you said about their leader. And you come to the council of the tribe and ask where the shaman is, you need to grate spears with poisonous toads, and the shaman drank fire water and gasps. Well, since you are going to scrape your skull tomorrow, you kill the shaman for edification, and you send the rest to collect toads right now at night, and even rub the arrows with high quality. I want to live. After that, debug the system of collecting toads to the ideal and regularly poke the enemy with a poisonous spear)))

      Then of course you will die your own death, the system of collecting toads will last a little longer, and when those who collected the toads initially leave, the arrows will cease to strike the enemy and the tribe will be cut by neighbors.

      But for a long time there will be legends about the Great Leader who gathered everyone in a fist and forced to collect toads, thanks to which the tribe repelled enemies, lived and prospered.

      In other words, worthless personnel policy, it was for itself and not for the state!
      1. VS
        VS 28 December 2017 11: 11 New
        +9
        You misunderstand the essence of the events of those years.
        In Russia, Stalin built socialism. Where the "boss" could not have a personal well or a candle factory and, accordingly, it was problematic for him to poop on a gold toilet. That is, Stalin forced people to be people and not cattle who, for the sake of profit, would let their mother go to sausage))) It is for this and today that they respect and even adore at least half the country)) But with his death, the coming to power in the party and country was inevitable freaks who dreamed of dividing the Nationwide property - privatize it for paper and leave nothing))) That is - RETURN TO RUSSIA - CAPITALISM !!! And to whom there will be nothing to eat - don’t go to the porch to the priests)))) they will serve there)))
        1. Spook
          Spook 28 December 2017 11: 14 New
          +1
          In every possible way, I just don’t like the method. And note when you need it and the NEP included, in general, it was exclusively the goal that dictated the means

          And frankly, I think that all the good things in the TIPS brought victory to the Great Patriotic War to the surface, it is not known what the country would slide into without this victory
          1. Nitochkin
            Nitochkin 28 December 2017 15: 43 New
            +4
            You think what you say. For you, the Great Patriotic War is just manna from heaven. Are you healthy at all?
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 28 December 2017 16: 18 New
              0
              Quote: Nitochkin
              You think what you say. For you, the Great Patriotic War is just manna from heaven. Are you healthy at all?

              When a figure writes like this
              Quote: Spook
              victory in the Great Patriotic War, it is not known what the country would slide into without this victory

              It becomes clear that a person has a very, very mediocre attitude to our History, rather to the interpretation of it by the West, he blabbed a little higher that Russia didn’t take the wrong path, lost everything and other such nonsense.
              1. Spook
                Spook 28 December 2017 16: 52 New
                +1
                I can’t whitewash myself in your eyes))) I’ll clarify only about the wrong path, I think it all started with a violation of the moral and, most importantly, spiritual principles of the church, which led to the tragedy of 1917 and further moving away from Christian norms, we will go deeper into the abyss

                in my humble opinion, as a result, the war is between the devil and god, as I was very surprised when in every conflict on earth there was a battle between the devil and Christianity, when the dominance of a particular religion grew out of each conflict
                1. Nitochkin
                  Nitochkin 31 December 2017 16: 12 New
                  0
                  How much is opium today for the people?
  18. MARSHAL BAGRAMYAN
    MARSHAL BAGRAMYAN 28 December 2017 11: 12 New
    0
    [media = http: // https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = LZe
    SjXQMvyc]
  19. Hoc vince
    Hoc vince 28 December 2017 11: 18 New
    +4
    Thanks authoru for interesting stuff. A lot of new.
    L. Orlova - actress, aristocrat, smart woman. A good syllable, a clear vision of the main thing, correct assessments, clearly set priorities.
    I. Stalin - a new line from the contemporary.
  20. Old warrior
    Old warrior 28 December 2017 11: 50 New
    +8
    Stalin - A fresh wind, in our rotten, smelling abomination World.
  21. NordUral
    NordUral 28 December 2017 12: 03 New
    +6
    With anyone not to compare Stalin, the comparison will always be in His favor. Whatever some may say now.

    And nothing to add.
  22. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 28 December 2017 12: 14 New
    +6
    Yeah, there were great people in the history of Russia, and Stalin was one of them. After him, only the shallow ones went. Lying and thieving. Not excluding the current ones.
  23. Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 28 December 2017 13: 29 New
    +3
    LUMB and as if all these liberals would not speak or screech, as well as part of the power establishment, rotten, mediocre intellectuals from science and culture, HE will remain in our minds and hearts, it is not for nothing that such a demand for HIM now. Yes, a person possessed political will, strategic thinking and planning, which speaks of how the COUNTRY became with him and all the more pleasant, because such an OUTSTANDING ACTRESS Lyubov Orlova spoke so highly of him.
  24. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 28 December 2017 16: 24 New
    +5
    Stalin is an indescribable phenomenon in our lives! I think that those who hawt and vilify his great image are ordinary reptiles (reptiles)! The brightest page from my childhood is the death of GREAT STALIN, I will never forget how my father, the disabled WWII and his comrades in arms wept like children who lost the most dear! I have never seen such a sincere expression of grief and they want to take it away from us and screw it up! And here is the "BOLT WITH LEFT THREAD!" Our real FATHER OF THE PEOPLE, after death, left a well-worn uniform and well-trodden boots ... And let those vile "mouths" slam those who try to discredit the Honor and CONSCIENCE of our people !!! Chubais is their father ...
    1. ver_
      ver_ 8 January 2018 06: 06 New
      0
      ... there can only be stars above the stars ..
  25. cedar
    cedar 28 December 2017 17: 19 New
    +4
    It is necessary to return to Stalingrad its name of world significance and scale, it will be the best monument to Stalin and the people of the winner, and a terrible reminder to the enemies.
  26. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 28 December 2017 17: 30 New
    +1
    Someone had to restore order, restore greatness to the people and punish the bloodsuckers mocking the country. For this, Cromwell was found in England, Bonaparte in France, Horthy in Hungary, and Stalin in our country.
    1. reg
      reg 28 December 2017 17: 43 New
      +2
      Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
      Someone had to restore order, restore greatness to the people and punish the bloodsuckers mocking the country.

      Have people quite officially become slavery gained greatness? In which country?
      Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
      For this, Cromwell was found in England, Bonaparte in France, Horthy in Hungary, and Stalin in our country.

      Your lineup is not true at the root. You compare all sorts of different with a terry reactionary Dzhugashvili.
      Moreover, one should not compare the authoritarianism of the first three with the totalitarianism of the latter. These phenomena are somewhat similar, but of a different order.
      1. ALEA IACTA EST
        ALEA IACTA EST 28 December 2017 18: 08 New
        +2
        Reaction is a product of friction arising from the movement of a revolutionary ice rink. All these regimes, except, perhaps, the Khortian one, were not “strangulation” of the revolution, but its “curbing" and redirection of destructive energy to the solution of national tasks.
        1. reg
          reg 28 December 2017 18: 16 New
          +2
          Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
          All these regimes, except, perhaps, the Khortian one, were not “strangulation” of the revolution, but its “curbing" and redirection of destructive energy to the solution of national tasks.

          "Socialism" is not concerned. There was no “curbing the revolution" after the NEP; there was a U-turn and a purposeful movement back.
          And actually the NEP was not a "curb of the revolution." Although it really could have become that. But he was afraid of it and Dzhugashvili fought with it. And he won.
          1. Tula gingerbread
            Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 09: 21 New
            +2
            The reasons for the abolition of the NEP were completely different. All your judgments are primitively superficial.
      2. kartalovkolya
        kartalovkolya 29 December 2017 15: 21 New
        +1
        Talking about Stalin is not like you, stupid, who live in this world thanks to our Victory led by Stalin over Nazi fascism, which was the shock force of imperialism in its war against humanity for world domination! Judging by the flag, you are from that country that received freedom from Russia and betrayed its benefactors four times, and now with the help of people like you it will betray Russia for the fifth time!
  27. Doliva63
    Doliva63 28 December 2017 18: 57 New
    +6
    Quote: Spook
    Until recently, I thought so too, until some facts led me to other thoughts. Well, firstly - my grandfather spoke very differently, no one went for the attack for Stalin. The people fought for themselves. I was young, thought oh well grandfather may well, not everyone knows.

    Secondly, as we missed 42 and until 43 the fascist drove us both in the tail and in the mane, the answer came to me by looking at the situation in Ukraine, where "the most powerful army in Europe" is made by "miners and drivers". And why ? Yes, because no one wants to fight for this power. I think in 42 there could be something similar.

    And the methods of retaining power are similar, what analogies can be drawn between Russia 42 and Ukraine now.

    Father said during the attack they shouted "For Homeland!" They died for her. "For Stalin" did not shout. And no one forced. But in the 53rd father took a vacation and went to say goodbye. What is your opinion against the opinion of the one who lived and fought under Stalin? What is your opinion worth? You are a troll who has nothing for the soul. Answered to encourage others not to communicate with you. I don’t react to you anymore.
  28. Fidel
    Fidel 28 December 2017 19: 53 New
    +2
    The time will come and the truth will rise
    The name of steel and the will of steel!
    They will not force us not to betray, they will not force us to forget
    Our red flag over the great country
    And a man with the surname Stalin.
  29. trak
    trak 28 December 2017 20: 13 New
    +4
    I am plagued by vague doubts ... It is reliably known that Lyubov Orlova from the old noble clan, to which the Orlov graphs also belong, their ancestors are Ekaterina's favorite 2. It is reliably known that the first husband of Orlova, a major Bolshevik, died in the GULAG. After the film “Merry Guys”, Orlova appealed to the NKVD with a request to somehow alleviate his fate, she was told there that they could not do anything, but if she wanted, she could go to him. She did not want to. It is authentically known that after the death of Stalin, L. Orlova with a shudder declared: “At last he died!”. It is reliably known that the brothers of Vera Maretskaya, the young politicians from Bukharin’s entourage, were destroyed, and she became a relative of “enemies of the people”. Therefore, someone here can reliably tell me where the quoted memoirs of L. Orlova come from? Who are they published by? Where is the manuscript of these memoirs? I would be sincerely grateful for the answers.
    1. trak
      trak 28 December 2017 20: 42 New
      0
      I apologize for the mistake. The first husband, L. Orlova, was freed from the camps after the war and died of cancer in 1951. But she had never communicated with him after his arrest. He was arrested in 1930 in the case of a "peasant party".
    2. Tula gingerbread
      Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 09: 24 New
      +2
      “It’s reliably known” is, of course, very cool ”proof. But you yourself demand very precise answers, but you don’t bother yourself with those.
      Maybe instead of "reliably known", you yourself start with what you require from others?
      1. trak
        trak 29 December 2017 13: 57 New
        0
        Quote: Tula gingerbread
        “It’s reliably known” is, of course, very cool ”proof. But you yourself demand very precise answers, but you don’t bother yourself with those.
        Maybe instead of "reliably known", you yourself start with what you require from others?


        Yes please! The phrase about Stalin’s death in 1953 was not only repeatedly confirmed by everyone who then entered the house of Orlova and Aleksandrov, but also in her diaries for March 1953 of the year. If you need to confirm my other information, then specify what ... I think they do not require confirmation at all, they have been known for a long time. Now I am waiting for you to retaliate. So where did these "memoirs" come from?
  30. Dead duck
    Dead duck 28 December 2017 20: 49 New
    +7
    Quote: reg
    Yeah. The creation of the world from the Dzhugashvilevsky "socialism" has occurred.
    Meanwhile, this same "socialism" has existed only for 64 of the year. And before him (before 1927), Russia had only some 7435 years (from the creation of the world). But they mean nothing, right?

    Soft and warm do not confuse and do not identify different things.
    And do not try to cram your thoughts into other people's heads or mouths.
    I’m not campaigning for the monarchy (and the “slaves” were introduced in large numbers under the Romanovs), but I give specific examples. It is time to already learn to perceive history as it is, and not to divide it into good or bad.
    And especially not to spit on people who have done a lot for their country.
    1. reg
      reg 28 December 2017 21: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: Deadush
      Yes, and "slaves" just the same massively introduced when the Romanovs

      Introduced and withdrawn. And at 20, slavery in the USSR fell only with “socialism”. And the USSR.
      Quote: Deadush
      It is time to already learn to perceive history as it is, and not to divide it into good or bad.

      Is it like that? To start loudly screaming that Dzhugashvili is a very cool kid? Does it mean to perceive history as it is?
      Quote: Deadush
      And especially not to spit on people who have done a lot for their country.

      Indeed, few in the history of Russia managed to destroy or contribute to the destruction of such a large percentage of the country's population as Dzhugashvili by their actions or inaction.
      1. Dalailama
        Dalailama 29 December 2017 05: 18 New
        +2
        Was it to you that he was too slow with the ban on abortion and the beginning of his purges?
        Blank, Bronstein, Apfelbaum, etc. exceeded even Schicklgruber in this, whom he too had brought to suicide. With all of them, by the way, abortions in Russia were allowed and encouraged.
      2. Tula gingerbread
        Tula gingerbread 29 December 2017 09: 26 New
        +2
        Have you personally been in slavery in the 20th century? Or were you still not born in the 20th century and therefore happily escaped slavery?
      3. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 29 December 2017 13: 49 New
        +1
        Results: approximately 338 000 (0,68 seconds)
        searching results
        Pictures on request census of the ussr years
        en.wikipedia.org
        The next census was carried out in 1959. The 1959 All-Union Census of the USSR showed the population of the USSR equal to 208,8 million people. Over the 70 years of the existence of the USSR, the population has increased by almost 160 million people.
      4. Dead duck
        Dead duck 29 December 2017 19: 47 New
        +5
        Quote: reg
        Introduced and withdrawn.

        They introduce and withdraw ... I would say that ... but they will not allow it here. laughing

        Quote: reg
        And in 20 slavery in the USSR fell only with "socialism". And the USSR.

        like in the West, freedom and equality, what then what now? ...
        There are rules, law, order - they must be observed everywhere.
        If you do not like the job, then you can change it ... as well as the place of residence.
        And with their charter, as they say ...

        Quote: reg
        Is it like that? Start screaming out loud

        Ask how this is done by the French about Napoleon. yes

        Quote: reg
        Indeed, few in the history of Russia managed to destroy or contribute to the destruction of such a large percentage of the country's population as Dzhugashvili by their actions or inaction.

        How much is how much? ... 100 mash 500 milen?
  31. Dart2027
    Dart2027 28 December 2017 21: 56 New
    +2
    Quote: reg
    So said the hell it. Do not you understand?

    In your opinion?
    Quote: reg
    My condolences to you.
    Why do you need it? Want to eliminate?

    I want to see, otherwise screams about her are heard all the time, but something is not visible live
    Quote: reg
    Actually on Wikipedia.
    That is not read. It clearly and clearly states that the source of this "discovery" is Memorial
    Quote: reg
    When "faith" appears, it will be too late.

    Yes, yes, in the 90s, I personally made sure that very few were shot
    Quote: reg
    Do you understand very badly? How many times should I write to you that the question is not addressed?

    In other words, the stupidity of this fabrication is obvious.
    1. reg
      reg 29 December 2017 01: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: Dart2027
      but live something is not visible

      So not everyone is given.
      Quote: Dart2027
      It clearly and clearly states that the source of this "discovery" is Memorial

      Scans painted a memorial? I personally ordered it or to the side?
      Quote: Dart2027
      Yes, yes, in the 90s, I personally made sure that very few were shot

      Ohoho. People like you will probably never recover. Everyone dreams of shooting someone. And preferably more.
      You will see a doctor. To an ordinary psychiatrist. Maybe he will help you?
      Quote: Dart2027
      In other words, the stupidity of this fabrication is obvious.

      In other words, I already just very strongly recommend you a psychiatrist.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 29 December 2017 07: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: reg
        So not everyone is given.
        That is, in nature it does not exist, only in theory.
        Quote: reg
        I personally ordered it or to the side?
        I do not know, but the fact that they are a bunch of enemies of the people has long been known.
        Quote: reg
        You will see a doctor. To an ordinary psychiatrist.
        Ohoho. People like you will probably never recover. Everyone dreams about destroying Russia. You will see a doctor. To an ordinary psychiatrist. Maybe he will help you?
        Quote: reg
        In other words, I’m already just very strong
        do not know what to say.
  32. Vend
    29 December 2017 11: 15 New
    +1
    badens1111,
    Do you understand the difference between an ideological poster on the street and a portrait in your boss’s office? Seen no.
  33. Walking
    Walking 29 December 2017 13: 15 New
    0
    reg,
    Quote: reg
    Quote: Deadush
    And the concept of "empire" is different ... like that

    Nope. Empire, it is in Africa, empire.
    Quote: Deadush
    Russia now has been laid under him.

    Yeah. The creation of the world from the Dzhugashvilevsky "socialism" has occurred.
    Meanwhile, this same "socialism" has existed only for 64 of the year. And before him (before 1927), Russia had only some 7435 years (from the creation of the world). But they mean nothing, right?
    It is time for the Stalinists to already understand that "socialism" is just a moment in the history of Russia. Unpleasant, painful, even in places disastrous. But still, a moment. 0,85% of the time if you count as our ancestors thought. From the creation of the world.


    Not you aphid judge European prostitute, We will understand without the Bulgarians.
  34. trak
    trak 29 December 2017 21: 51 New
    0
    It is not the first day that I ask, to be told, where did these memoirs of L. Orlova suddenly come from? Got just something like a swear word. Googled it myself, and that's what http://liv.piramidin.com/publ/d_suvorov/2015/o_st was found
    aline_s_liub.htm It turned out that this pathetic fake was launched back in 2015 year, and it’s now “exploded” on the Internet. Personally, everything is clear to me here, not worth discussing. I regret our simple, brave old men, with whom young political careerists are trying to play again.
  35. trak
    trak 29 December 2017 22: 07 New
    0
    So I did not get an answer here, where did these "memoirs" of L. Orlova come from, only tried to curse me. Googled himself, and that's what was found
    http://liv.piramidin.com/publ/d_suvorov/2015/o_st
    aline_s_liub.htm
    It turned out that this pathetic fake was launched back in 2015 year, and it’s “exploded” on the Internet just now. I regret our innocent brave old men, with whom young political careerists flirt so vilely.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 30 December 2017 12: 38 New
      0
      Quote: trak
      So I did not get an answer here, where did these "memoirs" of L. Orlova come from?

      https://www.labirint.ru/books/478162/
  36. Olrov2010
    Olrov2010 30 December 2017 09: 22 New
    +1
    And now it’s better, one thief, no one can offer anything, but all
    Stalin Stalin
  37. trak
    trak 30 December 2017 14: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Dart2027
    Quote: trak
    So I did not get an answer here, where did these "memoirs" of L. Orlova come from?

    https://www.labirint.ru/books/478162/

    This link can not be the answer, I’m going to dig up those without you, study its preface better with the description where these “mumouars” came from, this preface is written according to the standard scheme for launching all information fakes. In general, as all publishers of the world say, there is no manuscript - there is no authentic author. There is no other! And you can believe if you want it. Not prohibited!
  38. Klaus
    Klaus 30 December 2017 15: 38 New
    0
    On the green oak
    Yes over that space
    Two falcons clear
    We had conversations.
    And these falcons
    People all learned:
    The first falcon is Lenin,
    The second falcon is Stalin.
    Oh like the first falcon
    I said goodbye to the second
    He with a dying word
    Referred to a friend:
    “You are my gray falcon,
    The hour has come to part
    All work, worries
    They fall on you. ”
    And the other answered:
    “Forget the alarm,
    We swear to you -
    Do not turn off the road! "
    And he kept his oath
    A battle oath
    He made happy
    The whole country is native.
  39. AllXVahhaB
    AllXVahhaB 30 December 2017 17: 10 New
    +2
    reg,
    In fact, the USSR is not its own for Russia.

    The legal successor of which is. Interesting...
  40. Ehanatone
    Ehanatone 30 December 2017 20: 55 New
    -1
    reg,
    Yeah, such regs are the worst of all - they know how to talk the truth well with Solzhenitsyn ...
  41. pepel
    pepel 1 January 2018 12: 58 New
    0
    The paragraph on Stalin's attitude to art must be printed in the form of a huge poster and hung in the office of the Minister of Culture. And L. Orlova’s memoirs about Stalin should be published in the same print run as Solzhenitsyn’s “Gulag Archipelago” and see what would be in great demand. It is necessary to publish more memories of people who personally knew Stalin, and not political ordering from the Solzhenitsyn.
  42. ver_
    ver_ 1 January 2018 14: 25 New
    0
    Quote: Tula gingerbread
    In the nineties, polls showed little to the worst attitude toward Stalin, and this was against the backdrop of frenzied anti-Stalinist, anti-Soviet propaganda and impudent lies.
    I personally, like many others, have never changed my attitude towards Stalin. An opinion that coincides with the opinion of L. Orlova.

    ... why did Lyubov Orlova have no children? ..and still a lot of why ..., I knew how to knock out money * myself * ... I knew how and knew well how to adapt to * power * ...
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 1 January 2018 17: 07 New
      +2
      Quote: ver_
      why did Lyubov Orlova have no children?

      Are you a fan of climbing into someone else's bed? Keep a candle? What is your business and who gave you the right to climb into this story?
      Quote: ver_
      and many more why

      Dirt dig your hobby? Why?
      Quote: ver_
      She knew how and knew well how to adapt to * power * ...

      Look at Madame Gritsatsuev-Pugachev-Galkin carefully.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. ver_
        ver_ 7 January 2018 19: 12 New
        0
        ... swim too shallow for you to ask me what to write ...
  43. The comment was deleted.
  44. The comment was deleted.