Military Review

Russian Navy. Sad look into the future. Part of 3. "Ash" and "Husky"

200
In the last article we reviewed the situation with the repair and modernization of the existing composition of non-strategic nuclear submarines of the Russian Navy. Today, atarins of new projects are in line: “Ash” and “Huskies”.


So, the pride of the domestic nuclear submarine fleet - SSGN project 885 "Ash". History This ship began in 1977, when it was decided in the USSR to start work on the next, 4 generation of non-strategic nuclear submarines. The assignment was given to all three Soviet design bureaus engaged in atomicarines, while Rubin worked on the specialized aircraft carrier killer, continuing the traditions of the SSGN of the 949A (Antey) project, and Lazurit on the ship, whose specialization was to be the anti-submarine warfare, and "Malachite" - above the multipurpose submarine. In the future, it was decided to abandon the specialization and create a universal submarine. Work on it concentrated in the "Malachite."

It can be assumed that this was the right decision, since it was Malakhit that became the developer of the most successful and accomplished MAPL of the USSR “Schuka” and “Schuka-B”. Usually they write that the design work on the 4 generation boats has been somewhat delayed, but this is probably not the case. After all, the start of work on them almost coincided with the beginning of the design of the Pike-B - in other words, our designers were able not only to translate their ideas into the most popular series of 3-generation boats, but also to check how they work (the main “Pike B ”was commissioned in 1984 d). And to design a new generation taking into account the operating experience of the most advanced boats of the previous generation. Domestic shipbuilders had to solve an even more difficult task than the Americans to create their “Sivulf”, because the latter had a fairly clear anti-submarine orientation, but was never designed as an “aircraft carrier killer”, and the Soviet submarine had to be able to do that.

Works were completed in the early nineties. 21 December 1993 in a solemn ceremony laid the first boat of the 885 project - the Severodvinsk. What happened next ...



Approximately in 3 year after the start of construction, in 1996, the work on the boat completely stopped. At the beginning of the two thousandth, they were supposed to resume, but it turned out that for almost ten years already, which the ship had spent on the stocks, the project was to some extent outdated, and no one could already produce some of the equipment due to the collapse of the USSR cooperative chain near abroad, and in his native homeland. As a result, the project was reworked, work at Severodvinsk was resumed in 2004, but only in 2011, Severodvinsk went to sea for factory testing and in 2014, the Russian Navy entered service.

What ship got the fleet? A number of publications indicate that Severodvinsk did not meet the expectations placed on it in terms of low noise and some other characteristics. Interestingly, V. Dorofeev, General Director of the St. Petersburg Marine Bureau of Mechanical Engineering "Malachite", not only did not refute the shortcomings of Severodvinsk, but, in fact, acknowledged the existence of problems:

"Rumors about the failures of" Ash "let them remain rumors. “Malachite” as the creator of such a complex modern ship as a multi-purpose nuclear submarine certainly knows all its “childhood diseases” and “sores”. Those design solutions that require improvement will be implemented during the construction of a series of ships. This is normal practice. ”


Oddly enough, all this does not give grounds to consider the 885 project unsuccessful. The fact is that “Severodvinsk” by definition could not make the designers' dreams come true: it was built, as they say, “on the last gasp”: with might and main, backlogs were used from other unfinished submarines for both metal and equipment. And it would be okay if this concerned any internal bulkheads or buttons on the consoles, but Severdovinsk didn’t even get its power plant design! Instead of the newest water-water steam generating plant KTP-6-85 with KTP-6-185SP reactor (sometimes erroneous name of the PMC is sometimes encountered), “Severodvinsk” received only OK-650В with the previous generation VM-11 reactor.

What does this mean in terms of the same low noise? The newest installation implied the installation of the reactor and its primary cooling circuit in a single package, while large pipelines were removed from the design of the steam generating plant, their width was reduced from 675 to 40 mm. This was to facilitate the natural circulation so much that there was no need for constant operation of the circulation pumps, and in fact they are one of the main sources of the noise of a nuclear submarine. But, unfortunately, instead, “Severodvinsk” received a power plant similar to the boats of the previous, third generation, and, of course, this could not but affect its noise performance.

Is it worth making tragedy out of it? According to the author of this article, no, and here's why: already on the boats “Vepr” and “Cheetah” (“Akula II” and “Akula III”, according to NATO terminology), noise levels comparable to those of American 4 submarines were achieved. generation, and “Severodvinsk”, with all its “inborn” deficiencies, was a great step forward even in comparison with the latest and best representatives of the 971 “Pike-B” project. That is, the failure to achieve the design characteristics does not make the Severodvinsk a failed or vulnerable ship for the US submarines. He is worse than he could be, but this does not mean that he is bad.

The drawbacks of Severodvinsk stem from poor-quality construction, which refers to the use of various “substitutes”, and from some obsolescence of the project itself. Nevertheless, Severodvinsk was laid out in 1993 g, and although his project was finalized at the beginning of 2000's, many years have passed since then, and in any case, improvements were probably of a compromise nature, since it was a question of redesigning an already partially built ship .

As far as can be judged, all these shortcomings are corrected on further series of boats: the Kazan following the Severodvinsk and other ships are built according to the improved 885 project. More modern equipment is installed on these boats, moreover, its entire nomenclature is produced in the Russian Federation, so there will be no more problems with supplies from neighboring countries. And there is also no doubt that the submarines of the 885 project will truly unleash the potential inherent in the 885 project. What are the key differences of the "Ash" from the previous generation 3 boats?

We have already said above about the new low-noise power installation, but the list of improvements aimed at reducing the noise of the Ash trees is much higher. All the most "noisy" nodes are equipped with an active noise suppression system. Shock absorbers, vibration damping, and noise associated with it were used before, on the same "Pike-B", but now they have received a different design and have become much more efficient. In addition, in the manufacture of a number of structures, composite materials with damping properties are widely used, which made it possible to reduce noise in a number of ranges to 10-30 decibels. What does this mean? For example, the 30 decibel is the sound of a human whisper or the ticking of a wall clock.

What else? The boat has a one-and-a-half structure, which reduces the noise relative to the two-body. Of course, the body has a more perfect geometry and carries an improved coverage.

Some time ago, “Severodvinsk” “on the Internet” received a series of attacks for the lack of a propulsion unit. The argument of the "attackers" is clear, simple and logical. Americans in their ultra-quiet "Seawulf" and the subsequent "Virginia" use jet propulsion, the same we see in the British "Astyuta". And, since we do not have it and instead of “advanced” technologies, we use “primitive” screws, this means that we are again lagging behind and that the noise level of the American submarines is unattainable for us.

But how correct are such logical concepts? The author of this article, unfortunately, is not a shipbuilding engineer and can only guess at this point, but the guesses are very interesting.

The first. There is an opinion that everything with a jet propulsion unit is not as unambiguous as it seems at first glance, and that it has less noise in only a very limited range of speeds and depths, while its efficiency is lower and perhaps there are still some that are not obvious to a layman. limitations.

The second. The water jet was well known in the USSR: the 17 of May 1988 was laid by the “Alrosa” - a diesel submarine of the project 877В, which is a modification of the “Halibut” with the replacement of the propeller with a water cannon. “Alrosa” is called the quietest boat of the 877 project, but neither the subsequent 636 diesel-electric submarines of the Varshavyanka project nor the more modern Lada propulsion units received. If the water jet is so good, why didn't it happen?

Third. A new jet propulsion unit is installed on the newest SSBNs “Borey”, but not on the Yasen. Of course, you can remember that the first Borey was laid in 1996, while Severodvinsk was built in 1993 and assume that at the moment of laying the first ship of the 885 project the propulsion unit did not exist. But the fact is that the power plants of the 955 and 885 projects are very similar, in fact, the same OK-650V stands on Severodvinsk as on Borey, and even a slightly more powerful reactor is installed on the upgraded 885M. And if the only reason for the rejection of the jet propulsion on the "Ash" is the unavailability of such at the time of the laying down of Severodvinsk, then who prevented the redesign of the "Kazan", laid down in 2009 under the water cannon? However, this was not done.


"Kazan". Although the screw is hidden, we see that it is a screw, not a water cannon.


All this testifies to the fact that the abandonment of water cannons on the boats of the Yasen project is not a forced, but quite conscious decision, dictated by any advantages of the propeller for the multi-purpose submarine. Of course, it can be recalled that the boats of the 955 and 885 projects developed various design bureaus and suggest some secrecy, saying that "the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing." But if the jet propulsion really would have only advantages, then why the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation, understanding its capabilities, did not insist on the use of water cannons on the modernized Yaseny? This is both unwise and not logical. However, one should always remember that in the native Fatherland far from all processes proceed rationally and logically.

Nevertheless, by virtue of the above, we cannot unequivocally assert that the jet propulsion unit is good and the screw propulsion unit is bad and state that we have no reason to consider the 885 and 885M ships to be somewhat flawed in terms of low noise compared to American 4-th generation submarines. Moreover, the Americans themselves are in no hurry to brag about the superiority of their submarines over Severodvinsk.

The 885 project received a fundamentally new SJSC Irtysh-Amphora, created on the basis of a hydroacoustic complex for hydroacoustic patrol boats developed under the Afalina project, as well as a number of auxiliary hydroacoustic stations. According to some data, the capabilities of the SJSC “Ash” are quite comparable with those of the American “Virginia”. Of course, submarines of this type are equipped with the latest BIUS and communication complexes, including - (sound?) Underwater: according to some data, "Ash" is capable of transmitting data under water over a distance of more than 100 km.

The 885 project is universal, including the ability to perform the functions of "aircraft carrier killers", for which it has vertical launchers on the 32 of the Caliber or Onyx missiles. At the same time, “Ash” is significantly less than the SSGN of the 949 “Antey” project - 8 600 and surface displacement versus 14 and 700 tons, which also gives the ship certain advantages.

In general, the 885 project ships should be recognized as extremely successful atomars in almost all parameters, with the exception of one — the cost. The total value of the contract for the construction of 6 boats of the 885 project is usually estimated over 200 billion rubles. - 47 billion rubles. for the first "Kazan" and 32,8 billion rubles. for each subsequent boat, but these figures raise certain doubts.

The fact is that back in 2011, Kommersant wrote that after the intervention of V. V. Putin in Severomorsk, a contract was signed for the construction of Kazan with a value of 47 billion rubles. and a contract for the construction of 4 boats for the 885М project in the amount of 164 billion rubles. From the text of the note, unfortunately, it is not clear whether the construction of the head Kazan was included in the contract for the 4 boat of the 885М project, depending on this, the cost of the production boat is defined as 39-41 billion rubles. But these prices are still in those pre-crisis rubles, and it is clear that after the year 2014 they have increased quite sharply. Considering the fact that at the time of Kommersant’s publication, the dollar was worth about 31 rubles, the cost of the head Kazan could be estimated at 1,51 billion dollars, and the serial boats of the 885 project - at 1,25-1,32 billion dollars. Today, at a price dollars in 57,7 rub. we can assume that the serial "Ash M", if you lay it in 2017 g, will cost the country, if not in 72,6-76,3 billion rubles, then very close to this.

Of course, skeptics will point out that you should not recalculate the cost of MIC products in dollars at the current rate and in some ways they will be right - military pricing is a rather specific thing. But it is worth considering that, for example, prices in rubles for the “post-crisis” supply of Su-35 under the second contract (2015 g) turned out to be one and a half times higher than the first 48 machines (100 billion against 66 billion), even though that the first contract provided for the payment of not only the aircraft, but also some work on the final design of the machine. But having applied the same coefficient “one and a half”, we will already get the cost of the serial “Ash-tree M” at the level of 60 billion rubles. As of 2015 g, well, now it is naturally even higher.

It should be understood that the increase in the cost applies not only to the newly laid submarines “Arkhangelsk”, “Perm” and “Ulyanovsk”, which were laid in 2015-2017, but also for those ships that are currently being completed. It is clear that those works that were performed before the crisis were paid at the rate of contract prices. But the cost of supplies and work that remains to be done is adjusted to the corresponding inflation rates, and these, although they usually do not reflect the true rise in prices, are still very high.

In other words, we can safely say that after 2014, the RF Ministry of Defense faced an explosive increase in prices for nuclear submarines - both those under construction and those that were yet to be mortgaged, but less than planned was allocated for the state armaments program. All this calls into question even the timely completion of the ships already laid, and it hardly makes it possible to dream of laying new hulls during the 2018-2025 period: especially considering that the Russian Federation is going to implement an extremely ambitious (and costly) modernization program in this period. Atomic third generation, which we wrote in the previous article.

Strictly speaking, the words of the President of the United Shipbuilding Corporation A. Rakhmanov about the lack of funding for Prince Oleg Oleg, as a result of which the launch of the newest strategic missile carrier “left” to the right, serve as “excellent” confirmation of our sad conjecture.

It is hardly possible to deny that the completion of the pledged corps (and 5 SSBN of the Borey project and 955 SSGN of the 6М Yasen M project are in various stages of construction) during the extensive modernization of four Shchuk-B and the same number of 885 "Anteev" represent the ultimate task for both the domestic budget and industry, and with a high probability that the deadlines for the implementation of these programs will move to the "right".



In addition, we should not forget the financing of the development work on the development of the nuclear submarine of the 5 generation, known as the Husky project. What can we say about this submarine?

It's nothing.

The fact is that today there is only a certain basic concept for this boat, which may be approved in the near future by the Russian Navy. And if it is approved, and does not return for revision, it will be the basis for developing the basic tactical and technical requirements for the future submarine. Then the designers, having received these requirements, will assess the key parameters of the mechanisms and equipment of the new submarine, and will give inquiries to the development organizations of the corresponding units and instruments. Those conducting preliminary design work will assess the feasibility of the technical project, calculate the approximate parameters of future products and present the results of their work to the head developer. After that, he will try to make a draft design ... and find out that "the stone flower does not come out", after which he will begin to renegotiate the tactical and technical characteristics given to him with the representatives of the Navy, and then everything will start in a new way ... And only after the preliminary design will be made and approved, the time of the technical project will come, and then the working documentation. These are years, and years and years. We can only recall that the work on the 4 generation boats began in the 1977 year, and the Severodvinsk was laid only in 1993 g, i.e. later 16 years from the start of work!

On the other hand, it should be understood that the work on 5-generation boats did not begin today or yesterday, the first mentions of it appeared in the already distant 2013. Nevertheless, it will be a great optimism to believe that we can build a submarine of this type in the next five years - most likely it will be about the fact that within the boundaries of HPV 2018-2025 g we will lay the lead ship closer to 2025. It is not for nothing that the commander-in-chief of the Navy (today, already an ex-commander-in-chief) V. Chirkov spoke after 2030

So, today we can say absolutely nothing about what the new submarine will be like. But we can probably say what it will not be.

The fact is that, according to a number of sources, the Huskies will become a universal atomarina, capable of replacing both the multi-purpose Ash Trees and the strategic Boreas. This is an obvious journalistic mistake that has arisen from a misunderstanding of the words of the head of the USC, A. Rakhmanov:

"This will be a boat that will be unified - strategic and multi-purpose for a number of its key elements."


From here, apparently, the conjecture that the submarine of the same project will become both the SSBN and the SSGNC, just need to decide when building what kind of missile compartment “embed” into it - with cruise missiles, or with intercontinental ballistic missiles. However, it is obvious that nothing of the kind follows from the phrase of A. Rakhmanov. And the general director of the St. Petersburg Marine Bureau of Mechanical Engineering "Malachite" in his interview directly denied this view:

“Modern strategic and multi-purpose nuclear submarines have much in common with electronic weapons systems, communications, identical mechanical elements. The seriality and universalization of the systems facilitates both the training of personnel and the operation of ships. But, on the other hand, there are objective indicators that will not allow us to take a multi-purpose submarine and place ballistic missiles on it. A multipurpose ship implies a higher maneuverability than the strategist, lower noise at high speeds. Today there are powerful arguments that cast doubt on the possibility of the absolute universalization of submarines by type weapons».


Thus, Russian designers are tasked with maximizing the unification of strategic and multi-purpose submarines, and this approach will certainly save considerable funds at the R & D stage, since the need to develop units of the same purpose for each type of boat will be lost. Yes, and the production of the same type of units will reduce their cost due to the effect of scale, and the fleet will be much easier to service the reduced range of equipment. Incidentally, A. Rakhmanov also spoke of this.

“The USC is faced with the task of achieving maximum unification in order to“ get the best price offer for the Ministry of Defense. ”


So, the Huskies will have to become a multipurpose submarine, although, of course, it is very good that when developing it, the possibility of unification with the future SSBN is initially taken into account.

* * *


And here comes another article in the cycle. “And what’s sad about it?” Another reader will ask. “The Russian Navy will be replenished with the latest and most up-to-date submarines, so you need to rejoice! And that they are not as many as we would like, we don’t have to catch up with America ... After all, if a serious conflict happens, the question will not be in the number of submarines, because the strategic nuclear shield will go! ”

That may be so, but one should never forget that the Soviet, and now the Russian navy, is itself part of the nuclear triad. Let's count a little.

Currently, the existing fleet (that is, on the move, and not under repair, in reserve or sludge) are 11 SSBNs. In the Northern Fleet, the firstborn of the 955 “Yuri Dolgoruky” project, as well as the 5 boats of the 667BDRM “Dolphin” project, are keeping watch. In the Far East, three old SSBNs of the 667BDR Kalmar project: Podolsk, Ryazan, and St. George the Victorious, as well as two newest Boreas: Alexander Nevsky and Vladimir Monomakh .

At each of our SSBNs, 16 of intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) is located, and in total, it turns out, 176 ICBMs. Considering 4 warheads for each rocket, we get 704 warheads. According to the START-3 agreement, the Russian Federation (as well as the USA) has the right to keep 1 550 combat units deployed. It is easy to calculate that the number deployed on submarines is 45,4%. Almost half of our strategic nuclear forces!

In the series of articles "Russia against NATO" we have already dealt with the sufficiency of our nuclear missile shield and came to the conclusion that for the immediate total destruction of the same US, a thousand and a half warheads will not be enough. Accordingly, we cannot afford to lose deployed warheads — our SSBNs must be reliably protected. The USSR resolved this problem by ensuring naval supremacy in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and the northern seas adjacent to the USSR, where the SSBNs were to be deployed. In order to break into these Soviet "bastions" the Americans developed the submarines of the 4 generation capable of operating independently in the zones of domination of the Soviet Navy.

Alas, the "Bastions" of the Soviet Union are long gone. Admiral Vladimir Komoyedov, in the past - the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, tells about how the search for submarines is being conducted today of a potential enemy:

“Imagine that you are sitting at the table. The table is a patrol area. And anti-submarine aircraft methodically scatter buoys on it. In the area may be enemy boats, and may not be. But you need to check. This patrol involves not only airplanes, but also surface forces of the ship's search and strike group, helicopters with sonars and even satellites. We have machines capable of viewing the water column to a certain depth from orbit. Thus, underwater threat opposes dissimilar forces, but under a single command. The grouping commander has his headquarters, which "conducts" searches on the map. He has a connection with ships and aircraft. Patrols take place regularly. We call this work the maintenance of a favorable operational regime in the fleet areas of responsibility. ”


It is clear that the speed of verification directly depends on the order of forces that the fleet is able to allocate for this, but where are these forces today? And sea aviation, and the surface forces of the fleet have not been in good shape for a long time, their number has decreased many times since the times of the USSR, but the threats to our SSBNs have probably only grown - as of 2017, the U.S. Navy has 18 4th-generation multipurpose nuclear submarines.

During World War II, Admiral Andrew Brown Cunningham, whom the British considered “second after Nelson,” noted that: “the correct way to fight air is in the air” (it was meant that the fleet should have fighters to protect it from bombers) absolutely right. Today V. Komoyedov says:

“Still, the main task of anti-submarine aviation is to detect the target and let others know about it. HWho will not cope with the submarine better than another submarine. This is understood in the United States. ”


During the Second World War, submarines could lead an anti-submarine warfare unless by chance the enemy was substituted. But modern atomarins are so formidable and dangerous enemy that only other such “gladiators of the depths” can fight with them really effectively. At present, multi-purpose submarines are the most important element of anti-submarine defense, which neither surface ships nor aircraft can replace. Of course, no need to rush from one extreme to another and declare PLO surface and air forces obsolete, that would be a monstrous mistake. But hope that they will replace the submarine can not.

Well ... Well, God forbid, of course - it began. The Pacific Fleet takes its SSBNs to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk to hide there, awaiting orders for Armageddon. Aviation is raised in the air, satellites are working, a few corvettes leave the moorings, and we detect enemy submarines. And then what?

To cover the FIVE strategic missile submarine submarines and counter enemy submarines, the Pacific Fleet today has an 1 (in words - ONE) a multi-purpose nuclear submarine. We are talking about the "Kuzbass", the ship type "Shchuka-B". And, frankly, our "Improved Shark" "Virginia" is no match.

And more than the Pacific Fleet has nothing. Of course, if you are really supportive, you can try to use Antei as anti-submarine SSGMs like the 949A ... but, firstly, we have as many as two of them in the Pacific Fleet, which in no way solves the problem, and secondly, will not be as effective in anti-submarine quality as the "Pike-B". But after all, against "Sivulf" and "Virginia" and "pike" opportunities are already far from enough.

In the Northern Fleet, things are a little better - there we can have “Severodvinsk”, 3 MAPL of the “Pike-B” type, 1 MAPL of the “Pike” type (671РТМ (К)) and a pair of “Condor” can fight ASW to cover SIX RPSX we can use the whole Seven multipurpose atarin! And a couple of "Anteyev" is in reserve. It seems to be not so bad, if you just forget that of the seven ships mentioned, on an equal footing with the "Virginia" only "Severodvinsk" and, probably, the "Cheetah" can fight. And by the way, why do we consider only the "Virginia"? After all, there are also British Astyuts ...

The problem is not that our submarines are smaller than those of a likely adversary. The problem is that, having concentrated almost half of the deployed strategic nuclear potential on submarine rocket carriers, we cannot reliably cover the areas of their deployment — for this we categorically lack nuclear submarine hunters. And, no matter how good the six atomizers of the 885 project are, they will not fundamentally improve the situation, which means that in the next ten to fifteen years our SSBNs will have to rely mainly on themselves.

But maybe the non-nuclear submarines can somehow fix the situation?



To be continued ...

Previous articles of the cycle:

Russian Navy. A sad look to the future (part of 2)
Russian Navy. Sad look into the future
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  1. Rakovor
    Rakovor 29 December 2017 06: 56 New
    10
    Probably read the very first, from the morning. Thanks for the article, we look forward to continuing. As I understand it, everything will be sadder and sadder.))
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 29 December 2017 07: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: Rakovor
      I probably read the very first, from the morning

      This is not an indicator. wink lol
    2. Romario_Argo
      Romario_Argo 29 December 2017 09: 53 New
      +2
      Virginia, Astyut, Sivulf what difference does our BOD than "jamming fish"
      HACK in active mode accelerates all this evil spirits on 300 km around
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 29 December 2017 10: 45 New
        18
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        what's the difference with our BOD than "jamming fish"


        And once we got this, well ... and we caught an American boat by the tail!
        laughing My soul, do you even know how many stripes on the vest?
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 29 December 2017 10: 48 New
        19
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        Virginia, Astyut, Sivulf what difference does our BOD than "jamming fish"
        HACK in active mode accelerates all this evil spirits on 300 km around

        Yes, yes, yes ... a mighty fleet of 6 BOD for 2 oceans. Wow, how this armada will disperse everyone.
        Especially when you consider that from the air our PLOW at the same Pacific Fleet will cover the maximum - a regiment (that is, the squadron is in direct cover, the rest is in reserve at the base).
        1. Romario_Argo
          Romario_Argo 29 December 2017 11: 00 New
          +2
          here you are all writing articles "how deplorable we are"
          but no one writes, but how to do with what is (!)
          and I will continue to conduct analytics on the basis of what is, using diverse forces
          maybe a little BOD and MAPL and another and what else is not there at all
          the minimum task is enough for us to prevent the crossing of the state border (!)
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 29 December 2017 11: 26 New
            12
            Quote: Romario_Argo
            how to do with what is (!)

            what Her. my friend is a routine!
            You better about the deadly HACK ..... we ask, we ask fellow
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 29 December 2017 11: 40 New
            +6
            Quote: Romario_Argo
            here you are all writing articles, "how deplorable everything is with us"
            but no one writes, but how to do with what is (!)

            Fiction - on the third shelf. ©
            A simple question: how to ensure the withdrawal of the SSBN from Vilyuchinsk in terms of mine defense in the absence of modern minesweepers at the Pacific Fleet?
            Quote: Romario_Argo
            and I will continue to conduct analytics on the basis of what is, using diverse forces
            maybe a little BOD and MAPL and another and what else is not there at all

            You have already been written what cash is available at the Pacific Fleet:
            To cover the FIVE strategic missile submarine submarines and counter enemy submarines, the Pacific Fleet today has an 1 (in words - ONE) a multi-purpose nuclear submarine. We are talking about the "Kuzbass", the ship type "Shchuka-B". And, frankly, our "Improved Shark" "Virginia" is no match.
            And the Pacific Fleet has nothing more.
            1. Romario_Argo
              Romario_Argo 29 December 2017 12: 09 New
              0
              answer yourself how would you do it what to fulfill the order, making do with what is and what other forces would attract (!) do not be stupid ....
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 29 December 2017 12: 22 New
                +6
                Quote: Romario_Argo
                how would you do that to fulfill an order,

                Report that "the order did not pass." Will it be an option? There is no Moscow anyway, after such an order.
                1. Grits
                  Grits 29 December 2017 14: 11 New
                  +5
                  Report that "the order did not pass." Will it be an option? There is no Moscow anyway, after such an order.
                  For a person under a star-striped flag, such a decision is quite normal and prudent. But not for a Russian soldier or sailor. For a Russian, such an option would not even occur to him.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 29 December 2017 22: 43 New
                    +6
                    Quote: Gritsa
                    For a Russian, such an option would not even occur to him.

                    I have a much higher opinion of the intellectual capabilities of Russians. It’s not difficult to figure out that after everyone shoots back, the heroes will be those who knowingly refused to execute an order. The main thing here is that the forces of Good should not be preventively covered, otherwise it will not be possible to live up to the Congress medal.
            2. Oden280
              Oden280 29 December 2017 12: 32 New
              +3
              If the war suddenly starts, then the SSBNs will be shot off from the wall, this is provided initially. If there is a threatening period, then the boats will leave normally, since in peacetime no one will throw mines at the fairway. In this case, the main task of the Pacific Fleet will be the PLO of the patrol area, which the author has no idea, since the fleet saw only from afar.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 29 December 2017 13: 13 New
                10
                Quote: Oden280
                the author does not have the slightest idea, since the fleet saw only from afar.

                What did they finish, what did they serve, where did they go?
              2. Lexus
                Lexus 29 December 2017 17: 42 New
                +2
                If the war suddenly starts, the SSBNs will shoot off the wall

                Since our doctrine is defensive, if we have to defend ourselves, miles in the 200s (so that the Bastion would not annoy) the AUG will rise from the SSBN bases, and not just with Aegis, but with the F-18s lifted up into the sky, they’ll "all start’ Maces "and" Sineva "on the accelerating section, with the suddenly soared 40-ton" tanks "will not be very difficult. And then, if they are allowed to take off, which is doubtful.
              3. Rurikovich
                Rurikovich 29 December 2017 18: 56 New
                +4
                Quote: Oden280
                If the war suddenly starts, then the SSBNs will be shot off from the wall, this is provided initially.

                But it’s nothing that the SSBN basing points may be the first to be attacked due to the fact that these are the SSBN basing points ?? wink
                1. Oden280
                  Oden280 30 December 2017 19: 18 New
                  +2
                  A retaliatory strike does not mean that they start shooting after we have already been hit. A retaliatory strike is when our missiles take off in response to the launch of enemy missiles.
                  1. Rurikovich
                    Rurikovich 30 December 2017 19: 41 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Oden280
                    A retaliatory strike does not mean that they start shooting after we have already been hit. A retaliatory strike is when our missiles take off in response to the launch of enemy missiles.

                    And I don’t argue. But the bottom line is that the phrase that our SSBNs can even shoot from the pier by adversity came to light rather for their own complacency in terms of psychology, because with such funding, when the ship has been at the pier for years instead of being on combat duty. KOH is several times less than that of a potential adversary.
                    And ships of this class are therefore considered a reliable defendant in the case of a faq, if they are not detected and destroyed immediately. And much more “secretive” they will be in the surface in Vilyuchinsk or Western Face ....
                    Therefore, you should not come up with an excuse that they are not at sea and amuse yourself with the illusions of a quick response. The SSBNs exist to be at sea on combat duty, and not at the pier because of the capitalist costs in financing the army and Navy .. .
                    1. Oden280
                      Oden280 30 December 2017 19: 55 New
                      0
                      In Soviet times, about a third of the boats were on alert, another third underwent scheduled repairs, the remaining third carried out combat training and transfer activities. In addition, due to the design features of the then-missile systems, the boats were forced to patrol not in our territorial waters, but in neutral, closer to the adversary.
                      1. Rurikovich
                        Rurikovich 30 December 2017 20: 29 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Oden280
                        In addition, due to the design features of the then-missile systems, the boats were forced to patrol not in our territorial waters, but in neutral, closer to the adversary.

                        But not the bases to patrol, justifying the possibility of shooting standing at the pier and consider it normal wink
                        Yes, and Soviet times are not a couple of the present; if in Soviet times, KOH was slightly lower than that of the Americans, then in modern Russian reality this figure is generally lower at times. That's why they came up with an excuse request
                  2. Boa kaa
                    Boa kaa 1 January 2018 17: 00 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Oden280
                    A retaliatory strike is when our missiles take off in response to the launch of enemy missiles.

                    When our ICBMs leave after detecting the start of the enemy’s ICBMs, it is called a retaliatory strike. A retaliatory strike - after the US gift landed ... The beauty of the OVU is that it does not go through the aggressor’s empty silos, but through its administrative and industrial centers ... undermining the economic power of the adversary and the ability to produce military products in principle. ..
              4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                29 December 2017 20: 56 New
                +7
                Quote: Oden280
                In this case, the main task of the Pacific Fleet will be the PLO of the patrol area, which the author has no idea, since the fleet saw only from afar.

                And Komoedov - he also saw the fleet only from afar?
                1. Boa kaa
                  Boa kaa 1 January 2018 17: 11 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  And Komoedov - he also saw the fleet only from afar?

                  Vladimir Petrovich, a great boss, I personally know him, but he is NOT A SUBJECT. He does not know the intricacies inside a durable case ... However.
            3. Romario_Argo
              Romario_Argo 29 December 2017 12: 33 New
              +2
              I explain for the distant ....
              Example: Borea’s exit on duty from the Navy. How is this happening now
              3 MiG-31BM, 2 IL-38, Tu-142 and a pair of Ka-27PL take off from Yelizovo
              2 IPC -107 come out from VMB Vilyuchinsk; -82; examining the fairway of the hayed hull for the possibility of finding bottom mines. They anchor at a distance of 30 miles from the naval base and put the lowering hulls into active mode (4 pcs.)
              then our "old" minesweeper passes
              Then comes your favorite Kuzbass PLAT in the same way asset rustle punching all depths.
              + PL lines from hydrophones with Tu-142, IL-38, Ka-27 and stationary on the Commander Islands. - actively fonit.
              and only after that the Borey leaves and calmly leaves underwater in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk
              we can still attract something, if you have any suggestions, write ....
              "how to do with what is"
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 29 December 2017 13: 53 New
                +8
                Quote: Romario_Argo
                Example: Borea’s on duty

                What you described is not a cover for an exit, but an imitation of a service!
                Quote: Romario_Argo
                They anchor at a distance of 30 miles from the naval base and put the lowering hoes in active mode

                Those. with the complex hydrology of the Avacha Gulf, can you listen to the territory from the throat of Avacha Bay to Cape Lopatka with 4 MPC MPK and PLAT?
                OK, and who listens to the patrol areas in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk?
                1. Romario_Argo
                  Romario_Argo 30 December 2017 23: 31 New
                  +1
                  OK, and who listens to the patrol areas in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk?

                  so there Corvette Perfect project 20380, for this there is, by the way, with the presence of a helicopter.
                  and a couple of PLNARK Ave. 949A in ambushes, waiting for TS from buoys dropped from Tu-142, Il-32, Ka-27 and a stationary "fence" from the command islands and two on the Kuril Islands.
                  Carcasses pierce the water column with a Magnetometer up to 350 meters + buoys (Kuril Straits) for the presence of nuclear submarines, with depths of straits up to 500 meters, and the remaining depths beyond Antei
              2. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 29 December 2017 15: 41 New
                +5
                Quote: Romario_Argo
                with VMB Vilyuchinsk go 2 MPK -107; -82; examining the fairway of the hayed hull for the possibility of finding bottom mines.

                And for some reason foreign fools are developing special GAS mine exploration (changing the range of work for resolution). But it turns out the usual GAS IPC sees everything no worse. smile
                Quote: Romario_Argo
                then our "old" minesweeper passes

                As the same mina wrote, in domestic transformer substations (up to pr. 12700) there is no GAS for difficult conditions.
              3. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 29 December 2017 22: 53 New
                +2
                Quote: Romario_Argo
                Anchor 30 miles from Navy

                And they see this on the border of territorial waters

                What's next? Uncover your favorite Zircon?
              4. Bongo
                Bongo 30 December 2017 08: 07 New
                +2
                Quote: Romario_Argo
                3 MiG-31BM, 2 IL-38, Tu-142 and a pair of Ka-27PL take off from Yelizovo

                In a flying state in Yelizovo, God forbid, a dozen and a half MiG-31, with a dozen Ka-27 and 6-8 Il-38. Tu-142 come from "Stone brook", which is not very close. Anti-submarine complexes of most helicopters and PLO aircraft are very outdated. So, the possibilities of naval aviation in the Far East are very modest.
              5. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa 1 January 2018 17: 54 New
                +3
                Quote: Romario_Argo
                if you have any suggestions, write ....

                At the request of the comrades ...
                All you are talking about is the brightest unmasking sign in the square! Yes, a control search of submarines is carried out, a map of false g / a contacts on the FVC is confirmed, cut-off barriers from the RSLA are put ... But the strategist leaves silently, as a rule, at night, while the MPC on the DOZK line listen and "scare" the adversary ... ( By the way, where did 2's IPC come with 4 OGAS !?). In the North, they plunged into the "Yako" point and then quietly and quietly about their business ... And, as far as I remember, they never repeated the route and the script ... Why do you drive primitive things on the site, dear?
                There were those when under the guise of a "control exit" they disappeared on the 4 of the month ... At the same time, the cover operation was carried out "with a call" to the Fleet headquarters for analysis, the appointment of a second inspection deadline, etc.
                To the account of the RDB. Yes, squids are likely to go to the ZCHRBD (the so-called "bastions"), but I’m not sure about Boreev. They are most likely to leave for the Ocean, where they will not be constrained in maneuvering in course and depth ... Yes, and the flight time of SLBMs will be 2 times shorter ... Again, an unexpected woman for the exceptional ...
                IMHO.
          3. Sharky
            Sharky 30 December 2017 03: 55 New
            +4
            There is an opinion that everything is not as clear with the water jet propulsion as it seems at first glance and that it has less noise only in a very limited range of speeds and depths, while its efficiency is lower and, perhaps, there are some other things that are not obvious to a layman limitations.

            There are still drawbacks to the jet propulsion.
            I believe that this mover may have low noise due to cavitation. This is not new, everyone is fighting cavitation: screw manufacturers and centrifugal pump manufacturers, and the ship’s hull is subject to this effect at high speeds.
            So, cavitation does not always happen, but at high speeds under water of the same screw or impeller of the pump, water is discharged directly near the blade, which leads to the appearance of vapor bubbles due to low pressure. Further, these bubbles pass into the zone of high pressure (the water changes its position relative to the blades), where they swallow with the release of a lot of energy. And this is the destruction of the material of the blades and, of course, cotton, that is - noise. I believe that with an increase in the speed of the submarine there is an increase in the speed of the hearth’s flow through the jet engine, and this causes cavitation in it. Noisiness increases dramatically.
            P.S. I am a sailor, but not a military man. I work at mechanic on the ship. hi
        2. Odysseus
          Odysseus 29 December 2017 12: 23 New
          +3
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Yes, yes, yes ... a mighty fleet of 6 BOD for 2 oceans.

          Moreover, the newest of them (not counting Chebanenko in perpetual repair) in 1991.
      3. The comment was deleted.
    3. Grits
      Grits 29 December 2017 14: 05 New
      +7
      As I understand it, everything will be sadder and sadder.))
      This author has not even reached the surface ships
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        29 December 2017 17: 15 New
        +4
        Quote: Gritsa
        This author has not even reached the surface ships

        That's for sure, didn’t get ...
        1. 955535
          955535 29 December 2017 19: 52 New
          +1
          author -> author -> author, I read about the OK-650V power plant with a VM-11 reactor at Yasen. Keep misinforming the enemy :)
        2. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 29 December 2017 22: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: Gritsa
          This author has not even reached the surface ships

          This New Year, and even the topic of surface ships ((((. As if the author had not gone into the bout (((
  2. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 29 December 2017 07: 09 New
    13
    Greetings, colleague! hi drinks
    Another "bravo" yes per point of view
    The most interesting thing is that people who are able to adequately assess something are always in the minority, even across the country. Therefore, the solution to a problem often depends on whether there is a person at the top who is capable of such a thing as to launch a mechanism to correct the situation under his own responsibility request If not, then the problems of the fleet of the Russian Federation will be corrupted by the cries of "cheers" -patriots and masked by ebullient activity in unimportant directions. Those. banal dust in the eyes.
    I’ll come in the evening and see what our (Slavic) attitude is towards your point of view what
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 29 December 2017 09: 08 New
      +6
      Hello my Belarusian friend hi
      Quote: Rurikovich
      The most interesting thing is that people who are able to adequately evaluate something are always in the minority

      laughing This is the axiom of life, Andrey!
      I recently came across the memoirs of comrade Serov Ivan Alexandrovich and revealed such a paradox .... Stalin trusted Serov more than Beria, but Beria was still the people's commissar ... is it strange, is it not?
      Quote: Rurikovich
      what is our (Slavic) attitude towards your point of view

      what And what can be our attitude to the point of view of Andrei Nikolayevich? Normal attitude, especially since your fleet’s names are not indifferent .... Andrey .... The First-Called ... good
      laughing Holiday greetings drinks
      1. novel66
        novel66 29 December 2017 10: 30 New
        +6
        welcome hi some confusion in your thoughts, buddy, corporate party?
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 29 December 2017 10: 49 New
          +5
          Quote: novel xnumx
          some confusion in your thoughts

          Eh Roma. born to fly-swim can not! Do not understand you maritime service - this is a complete mess! tongue
          Welcome hi
          .... repeat well, corporate yo, ehe heh recourse
          Holiday greetings drinks
          1. novel66
            novel66 29 December 2017 10: 58 New
            +3
            "welter"! aviation - a mess in general
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 29 December 2017 11: 28 New
              +5
              Quote: novel xnumx
              "welter"! aviation - a mess in general

              laughing You see how much the fleet is more noble than aviation !!! wink
              1. novel66
                novel66 29 December 2017 11: 30 New
                +4
                the nobility of revolutionary sailors is undeniable! laughing tongue
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 29 December 2017 11: 34 New
                  +5
                  The classic question of a real sailor ... "Hto the woman broke her arm?" fellow
      2. Monarchist
        Monarchist 29 December 2017 10: 37 New
        +1
        Serg, and if Lavrenty Pavlovich had the opportunity to write what he knew ..... then "mother Mia"
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 29 December 2017 10: 54 New
          +5
          Quote: Monarchist
          if Lavrenty Pavlovich had the opportunity to write

          I agree! And besides, if Nikita had not cleaned up the archives, then many myths were dispelled as dust lol
          Holiday greetings drinks
      3. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 29 December 2017 18: 49 New
        +2
        Quote: Serg65
        Hello my Belarusian friend hi

        Greetings buddy !!! fellow drinks hi
        Quote: Serg65
        Stalin trusted Serov more than Beria, but Beria was still the people's commissar ... is it strange, is it not?

        Sometimes (and if you do not know this wink ) performers in a certain position are much more important than people who think. repeat
        Quote: Serg65
        And how can we relate to the point of view of Andrei Nikolaevich

        I actually spoke about all of us Slavs ... what
        Quote: Serg65
        Normal attitude, especially since your fleet’s names are not indifferent .... Andrey .... The First-Called ... good

        By the way, I, too, Andrei Nikolaevich yes Al forgotten ?! wink bully

        Quote: Serg65
        laughing with upcoming drinks

        You, Maremans, first of all with the upcoming New Year and all very, very .... well, hereinafter, whatever you wish !!! fellow
        With the deepest respect, Andrei Nikolaevich !!! drinks drinks drinks
    2. arturpraetor
      arturpraetor 29 December 2017 12: 50 New
      +5
      The most interesting thing is that people who are able to adequately assess something are always in the minority, even across the country.

      It's just that for the most part, people tend to rush to extremes, act on emotions, and not think logically (not many people are predisposed to logical thinking). For example, in cheers-patriotism, or "FSE boss disappeared." A weighted assessment by its nature is something average, and such "average people" are loved by both cheers and patriots, because this "average" does not correspond to the ideas of either one or the other. And this practice applies to everyone. Everything wassat Colleague Andrei gives us just a certain average rating, adequate and balanced, considering the issue from several points of view, and slippers come to him from both sides. For that, in fact, we love him with his articles laughing
      If not, then the problems of the fleet of the Russian Federation will be corrupted by the cries of "cheers" -patriots and masked by ebullient activity in unimportant directions. Those. banal dust in the eyes.

      That you are still probably not aware of the recent pressure from the military of the Russian Federation. I have several friends who are dedicated to many processes - after the recent redistribution of funds a little in favor of the Air Force and Navy at the expense of the army, the army did not start a strike wassat Moreover, how many army men do not explain that lack of funding and cost cutting in the Air Force and Navy are fraught with bigger problems than with the land, and the Russian army has already received a lot, but they will still pull the blanket over themselves. They urgently need to give 100500 new models of riflemen, tanks, armored personnel carriers, immediately in a large series and at the disposal of the army now, but without spending a lot now at sea and in the air, Russia can remain bare booty (figuratively speaking) years through 10, and will be able to recover after such years through 30-40 - no one cares ...
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        29 December 2017 16: 14 New
        +4
        Greetings, dear colleague!
        Quote: arturpraetor
        A weighted score by its nature is something average, and such "average" love to kick and cheers, patriots, and all

        the places where they kick, after a while they start to hurt a lot, and then they are covered with cast-iron growths laughing
        Happy New Year! drinks
        1. arturpraetor
          arturpraetor 29 December 2017 16: 41 New
          +3
          And you with the upcoming, dear colleague! drinks hi
    3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      29 December 2017 19: 00 New
      +2
      Quote: Rurikovich
      I’ll come in the evening and see what our (Slavic) attitude is towards your point of view

      We ask, we ask!
      With the upcoming, dear Rurikovich!
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 29 December 2017 19: 18 New
        +3
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        With the upcoming, dear Rurikovich!

        Thank Andrei Nikolaevich drinks
        You also with the Coming, fulfillment of your desires and all the best !!! yes
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        We ask, we ask!

        Yes, the most common .... request from big negative to big good
        And to be honest (in the morning there is simply not enough time to unsubscribe normally, because while I have breakfast for about 20 minutes, then I devote this time to my computer with news and weather ...) then I practically agree with you and agree with you ...
        For a wide range of desires, banal appropriate financing is needed. And here lies the paradox with our “desire to finance”. Moreover, when you start analyzing opportunities with needs, you realize to such an extent that we lost with the collapse of the USSR that articles like yours lead to a state where you stupidly want to get drunk from hopelessness .. request
        Therefore, my comments do not relate so much to the technical side of the problem as to the ordinary human and philosophical winked
  3. Odysseus
    Odysseus 29 December 2017 08: 32 New
    +4
    I read the third statue of a respected author, and for the third time I am surprised at his restrained optimism smile
    As for the problem posed by him at the end of the article, she also has another solution — simply increase the percentage of the ground component in our nuclear triad.
    More Sarmatians, less Maces! Given the fact that the number of submarines we will not increase, this is the most logical way. The underwater component may be 25-30% of the total number of warheads.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      29 December 2017 12: 59 New
      +6
      Quote: Odyssey
      I read the third statue of a respected author, and for the third time I am surprised at his restrained optimism

      Here, someone still considers me an optimist :))))))
      Quote: Odyssey
      As for the problem posed by him at the end of the article, she also has another solution — simply increase the percentage of the ground component in our nuclear triad.

      Yes, as an option - it would be quite suitable
  4. Serg65
    Serg65 29 December 2017 08: 56 New
    11
    Welcome Andrew hi
    A rather interesting series of articles and most importantly the most truthful, though .... in my opinion with a little too much sadness smile
    Let's. Andrei, look at the problem with nuclear submarines from a different angle?
    So, in short ..
    To cleanse the river. Volga allocated 257 billion rubles.
    Repair and construction of new roads - 500 billion rubles.
    Indexation of pensions approximately 11 600 billion rubles
    Total 768,6 billion rubles / 74 billion rubles we get 10 "Ash-M"
    laughing Yes, of course it is possible to talk with rapture about the inefficiency of the government, about the American dominance in the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, about corruption and this is true .... from the part, but let's think about what needs to be done so that the sheep remain intact and the wolves do not drown in saliva ?? ? Given that building a fleet is essentially a military-political task - what should we do?
    bully Looking back into the past, I know only two basically identical approaches to this problem - these are Peter I and Stalin! If there is another way out of this problem, what do you think?
    And thanks for the article good
    1. novel66
      novel66 29 December 2017 10: 31 New
      +5
      not everyone is ready either for Peter or for Stalin, for some are better off in advance laughing
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 29 December 2017 10: 51 New
        +6
        Quote: novel xnumx
        not everyone is ready for either Peter or Stalin

        laughing Honestly, Roma, I’m not ready either ... I just want to live normally and calmly!
        1. Rakovor
          Rakovor 29 December 2017 10: 57 New
          0
          Unfortunately, they won’t calmly.)
        2. novel66
          novel66 29 December 2017 10: 59 New
          +4
          normal and calm in relation to life - the words antagonists tongue
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 29 December 2017 11: 29 New
            +4
            Quote: novel xnumx
            words antagonists

            it .... hmmmm .... you got such words hde, brother?
            1. novel66
              novel66 29 December 2017 11: 31 New
              +4
              I'm well-read! tongue
              1. Alex_59
                Alex_59 29 December 2017 12: 48 New
                0
                Quote: novel xnumx
                I'm well-read!

                Liqueur "Chassis" is time to read, the new year is well.
                Yesterday at S7 corporate party I liked the idea of ​​the cocktail “We will not see each other for a week” from one of the PIC))))))))
                1. novel66
                  novel66 29 December 2017 12: 55 New
                  +4
                  Today I still have to ride a dryndulet, I’ll come to my mother-in-law in the evening - it will be stamped!
                2. ZVO
                  ZVO 29 December 2017 15: 27 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  the idea of ​​the cocktail "We will not see each other for a week


                  share the recipe ... I'd like to repeat the same thing ... :)
                  1. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 29 December 2017 22: 16 New
                    +2
                    Quote: ZVO
                    share the recipe ... I'd like to repeat the same thing ... :)

                    Like not to see me for at least a week)))
                    Yes, there’s a simple recipe, a decanter with fruit drink is taken, half empty. The alcohol available on the table is poured into it (wine, vodka and cognac). And a lemon slice clings to the edge of the carafe. Something like this. I’m generally a photographer, I can’t catch the details, I worked.
                    1. ZVO
                      ZVO 4 January 2018 15: 12 New
                      0
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Quote: ZVO
                      share the recipe ... I'd like to repeat the same thing ... :)

                      Like not to see me for at least a week)))
                      Yes, there’s a simple recipe, a decanter with fruit drink is taken, half empty. The alcohol available on the table is poured into it (wine, vodka and cognac). And a lemon slice clings to the edge of the carafe. Something like this. I’m generally a photographer, I can’t catch the details, I worked.


                      Morse here is somehow superfluous ... :)
                      But in fact, when the brave Czech comrades were treated to a cocktail, which I later saw in a quantitatively truncated form called Mi-8.
                      300 gram glass.
                      4 ice cubes.
                      Half becherovka
                      Half absinthe.
                      If you can drink a couple of glasses - that's all. for 2 days all in oblivion.
        3. Arthur Evnevich
          Arthur Evnevich 31 December 2017 14: 25 New
          +1
          ... I just want to live normally and calmly!


          But is it all normal? .. Or is it all quiet? .. The essence of the historical process is wars and interwar periods. Is it possible to fight normally (calmly) (prepare for war)? Today a lot of things get away with us thanks to the Soviet backlogs, and therefore to Stalin. Which would not have been possible without all of this, which is why many of us are "somehow not ready" to return to His time ... It somehow unfairly turns out ...
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 29 December 2017 11: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: novel xnumx
        not everyone is ready either for Peter or for Stalin, for some are better off in advance laughing

        Heh heh heh ... I just imagined how, under Stalin, people actively commented on articles during working hours and corresponded on the forum. smile
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 29 December 2017 11: 53 New
          +4
          Quote: Alexey RA
          how, under Stalin, people actively comment on articles and correspond on the forum during working hours.

          laughing good I can’t even imagine it!
          Holiday greetings drinks
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 29 December 2017 11: 58 New
            +3
            Quote: Serg65
            I can’t even imagine it!

            I’m afraid that with IVS everything would end with the appearance of new accounts on the VGULAG social network. smile
            Quote: Serg65
            Holiday greetings

            Symmetrically! drinks
        2. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 29 December 2017 12: 23 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexey RA
          people during working hours actively comment

          I look at your profile picture and see a lot of irony.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 29 December 2017 14: 47 New
            +2
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            I look at your profile picture and see a lot of irony.

            Alas, the tablets “55 Savushkina St.” were not found in good quality. smile
        3. novel66
          novel66 29 December 2017 12: 31 New
          +4
          I am an installer, and this work is not about permanent employment - and even vice versa - the best installer is a sleeping installer
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 29 December 2017 12: 39 New
            +4
            Quote: novel xnumx
            i'm a setup man

            laughing Roma, have you already submitted during interrogation?
          2. Alex_59
            Alex_59 29 December 2017 12: 44 New
            +3
            Quote: novel xnumx
            the best adjuster is the sleeping adjuster

            They say Henry Ford paid those guys that they had to service the conveyor only while they were sleeping. As soon as something broke, the accrual of the salary stopped until the techie went to bed again.
      3. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 29 December 2017 12: 29 New
        +2
        Quote: novel xnumx
        neither to Stalin, for some are better off in advance

        You see. It is believed that the academician and hero of Russia R.A. Kadyrov will not kill himself. And not even the fact that he will run away.
        Because no version of Stalin will suit not only the hero of Russia, but in general no one who really influences the situation. Unlike Internet warriors.
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 29 December 2017 12: 45 New
          +2
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          that academician and hero of Russia R.A. Kadyrov will not kill himself. And not even the fact that he will run away.

          He will not run away; he will be in the government of Yezhov. )))))))
          Those who did not understand this - these are not the fact that they will run away)))
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 29 December 2017 23: 26 New
            +2
            Quote: Alex_59
            he will be in the government of Yezhov in our government.

            From wiki
            Yezhov committed acts of sodomy "acting for anti-Soviet and mercenary purposes"

            In your place, I would not mention in this context the academicians and heroes of Russia.
      4. Grits
        Grits 29 December 2017 14: 17 New
        +1
        If there is another way out of this problem, what do you think?
        There is, so to speak, an “economy option” - its own “Tiananmen Square”
    2. Monarchist
      Monarchist 29 December 2017 10: 57 New
      +1
      Serg, (I don’t accept numbers) You correctly noticed: “I know only two basically identical approaches”, that Peter, that Stalin had to solve a huge number of problems and all the important ones. And I would say that in solving these problems neither Peter nor Stalin knew to the end what was going on and who could be trusted by 10% or 99%.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 29 December 2017 11: 32 New
        +5
        Quote: Monarchist
        Solving these tasks, neither Peter nor Stalin knew exactly what was going on and who could be trusted on 10% or 99%.

        And here I agree with you! And the same situation with the frames is projected the same on Putin ... don’t you find it?
        Quote: Monarchist
        Serg, (I do not accept numbers)

        laughing What a principled you ....
        1. novel66
          novel66 29 December 2017 12: 32 New
          +3
          what, you, numbered! tongue
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 29 December 2017 12: 41 New
            +4
            Quote: novel xnumx
            what, you, numbered! tongue

            what So half the life under the number passed ....
            1. novel66
              novel66 29 December 2017 12: 59 New
              +3
              well, at least not under the article!
    3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      29 December 2017 12: 57 New
      +3
      Quote: Serg65
      A rather interesting series of articles and most importantly the most truthful

      Greetings, dear Serg65! Thanks for your kind words
      Quote: Serg65
      Let's. Andrei, look at the problem with nuclear submarines from a different angle?
      So, in short ..

      So with our pleasure :)))
      An interesting fact, but various departments announce their cost figures for the main football championship. For example, the Ministry of Sports estimated the expenses from the federal budget at 650 billion rubles, Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov recently announced that according to his calculations, this figure does not exceed 250 billion, and some officials say the figure is 917 billion rubles. It seems that the government has long lost their accounts, but with astonishing persistence they continue to subsidize the holding of the World Cup ....

      And you say - there is no money :))))
      But the question is different - why do we even build SSBNs if we cannot cover them? Well, they would have squeezed, they would have left it only for the Federation Council, they would have finished the difference with Yars, the saved money would have been spent on MAPL.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 29 December 2017 13: 09 New
        +4
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        And you say no money

        laughing Andrei, I’m not talking about this, the more you know the law ... to give it somewhere, you have to take it from somewhere! A championship is a politics, besides not a bad politics. Dvizhuha near him laughing so this God himself commanded, only there is an assumption of the appearance at the most inopportune moment of Archangel Michael with a knife!
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        why do we even build SSBNs if we cannot cover them?

        The question is very correct, but again .... I want to embrace the immense! Although. what is ripening in the Kremlin offices I don’t know bully
        Holiday greetings drinks
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          29 December 2017 15: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: Serg65
          only there is an assumption of the appearance at the most inopportune moment of Archangel Michael with a knife!

          It is high time:))))
          Quote: Serg65
          Holiday greetings

          And you too! drinks
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 29 December 2017 16: 27 New
            +2
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            And you too!

            Join.
            Another unit is ready for service; repairs have been completed on Tula.
            A little off topic, but a very successful photo, I could not copy it.

            Happy New Year, everyone!
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              29 December 2017 16: 41 New
              +4
              And here is a good photo

              Happy New Year!
              1. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 29 December 2017 18: 33 New
                0
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Happy New Year!

                I believe that they will bring the frigate to mind, he’s so cute.
                All the best in the new year!
      2. DarkMatter
        DarkMatter 29 December 2017 17: 02 New
        +1
        And you say - there is no money :))))

        Greetings. The question of money is eternal!
        And about Mundial you are in vain. They decided to conduct it a long time ago, when there was much more money, but now it is impossible to refuse.
        Moreover, this is not only new stadiums, the popularization of sports among young people, repaired infrastructure (airports, train stations, hotels, even a little expensive) - which in itself not only gives impetus to the development of cities, but also attracts more business, both domestic and foreign.
        And we must not forget that this is an excellent advertisement for the country in the international arena, which you can’t get for free. Again, the establishment of a more positive background in the face of international tension, a small wage in the information war. What will entail the establishment of international relations and advertising our country abroad, and this is again new contracts and investments.
        Therefore, I think the comparison of Mundial and Ashen is extremely inappropriate. One is warm, the other is soft - and everything should serve the country and bring benefits to it, each in its own way.
        yes
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          29 December 2017 17: 21 New
          +2
          Quote: DarkMatter
          And about Mundial you are in vain. They decided to conduct it a long time ago, when there was much more money, but now it is impossible to refuse.

          In some ways you are right, but you should bear in mind that the catastrophic situation with the SSBN cover was essentially laid down in the GPV 2011-2020, which did not provide this cover in any way.
          Quote: DarkMatter
          Moreover, this is not only new stadiums, the popularization of sports among youth

          Sorry, but from popularizing sports to preparing for the World Cup like from Pecna to Paris through Washington and everything through the forest.
          Quote: DarkMatter
          but also attracts more business, both domestic and foreign.

          Give up. Domestic business is not necessary to attract anywhere, it is already poor, and they don’t invest our World Cup and money in the Russian Federation deep into the drum
          Quote: DarkMatter
          And we must not forget that this is an excellent advertisement for the country in the international arena, which you can’t get for free.

          And why do we need it? Typically, ads are launched to increase sales. What do we need in advertising?
          Quote: DarkMatter
          Again, the establishment of a more positive background in the face of international tension, a small wage in the information war. What will entail the establishment of international relations and advertising our country abroad, and this is again new contracts and investments.

          Once again - look at the dynamics of these "investments". Eslsy briefly - zero, zero and horseradish (vegetable) along.
          Quote: DarkMatter
          Therefore, I think the comparison of Mundial and Ashen is extremely inappropriate.

          Absolutely appropriate.
          1. DarkMatter
            DarkMatter 29 December 2017 17: 36 New
            +1
            the catastrophic situation with the SSBN cover was essentially laid down in the GPV 2011-2020, which this cover itself did not provide.

            Regarding many issues, the situation is far from ideal, unfortunately. Perhaps the leaders and those in charge here are hoping for a Russian chance, but we can hold it for now. Therefore, they do not force the last reserves to be spent and efforts put beyond measure on expensive boats.

            And why do we need it? Typically, ads are launched to increase sales. What do we need in advertising?

            It seems to me that you should not underestimate the situation here, people will return home and talk about another Russia, not the one that Western propaganda portrays. When, according to Western newspapers and channels, we need to be afraid of bears at the entrance to the stadium or rabid killer women, as well as other game, which is constantly stuffed with people.
            Do not underestimate social networks, where there will be a huge bunch of photos, videos from beautiful and good Russia. There will be people discussing the trip and impressions, telling relatives and friends at work. Also, many of the guests are probably wealthy people who have business. Etc.
            I’m not saying that all political decisions will be decided in our favor at once, and investments will flow like water, but if you don’t do anything, it will definitely not get better. The benefit will not be instantaneous and extremely noticeable to the average man, but on a national scale, the benefit will be necessary.

            Absolutely appropriate.

            Nevertheless, I will remain in my opinion that comparing the socio-political benefits and military spending (and the benefits of this reinforcement) is an extremely difficult and rather controversial task.
            wink
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              29 December 2017 18: 57 New
              +2
              Quote: DarkMatter
              Therefore, they do not force the last reserves to be spent and efforts put beyond measure on expensive boats.

              I have one question - who interfered with building the Yars instead of the SSBN? It would be both cheaper and more reliable. They would build a couple of Boreans, the rest would be thrown into the construction of MAPL. The whole point of the SSBN is that, while under water, they benefit from stealth and this allows them to more reliably preserve nuclear weapons. And if this is not so - why build them at all?
              Quote: DarkMatter
              It seems to me that you should not underestimate the situation here, people will return home and talk about another Russia

              Who will listen to them there and why? Both in Europe and in the USA there are powerful media that will have this effect - pah, they will crush and not notice
              Quote: DarkMatter
              Also, many of the guests are probably wealthy people who have business

              They do not care deeply in the photo from Russia. But what you don’t give a damn about is not the galloping ruble exchange rate, when your investments in Russia in dollars can double in price overnight.
              Quote: DarkMatter
              I will still remain in my opinion

              But this is always welcome! As Comrade Voltaire used to say
              "For your opinion, I am ready to cut your throat, but for your right to express it, I am ready to give my life"

              I cannot but note that you expressed your opinion politely and tactfully. We exchanged opinions, did not agree on them - so what? I will always be glad to see you in the discussion of my articles and with the upcoming! hi drinks
              1. DarkMatter
                DarkMatter 29 December 2017 19: 35 New
                +1
                I have one question - who interfered with building the Yars instead of the SSBN?

                Still, you won’t be fed up with Yars alone, and their so-called “going into the woods” also have their own specifics, problems, and peculiarities. Wunderwaffe is not there either.
                I think many, not knowing the difficulties of the SSBNs, will be very surprised to find out that they even exist, because the sea is really big fellow
                Who will listen to them there and why? Both Europe and the USA have powerful media

                Yes, this is understandable, but word of mouth existed and will exist. Moreover, with the advent of social networks, it spreads orders of magnitude and orders faster, with a decrease in control by the state. It is clear that the percentage of "zombies" (if I may say so) will always and everywhere be greater, but don't you have to fight for your%? It was 5%, it will be 15% - is it bad? At the kitchen level, people are also not stupid in the world, many understand that the zombie is lying, and there will be an alternative, and the truth is. They will trust their brother \ uncle \ neighbor more than the Air Force or RushTudey, right?
                But there are more neutral countries and there are many, Latin America, Asia and so on. NOT everything around London revolves the same. I repeat, this will not have a WOW effect per second, but work needs to be done.
                Of course, it’s more difficult with business. But a positive background is still a plus than a minus. And there already each separate case needs to be sorted, a bunch of nuances. Not ready now to go deep into the question)
                But in general, as I said, there is no choice. We are discussing an already accomplished situation; nothing can be changed. We must hold the World Cup.

                As for the GPV, I was thinking here, I remembered the situation then. After all, oil, course and the rest were just magical. Surely there was a pacified mood - a lot of money, which we ourselves cannot do - we will order in the west. Then it was generally a trend (Mistrals, jeeps and so on). The money was for the championship, and for boats, and for cover, and for everything that was needed. That is, it was supposed to fulfill the GPV if not 100%, then I think for sure already at 80-85%. Do you remember how many corvettes, frigates and other things were supposed to sparkle with new sides on the waves)) Cover would be, Ash would now be built at an accelerated pace at the final stage, and they probably planned to lay down a new batch after the 20th year.
                What am I writing about - it turns out that they did not plan to leave the SSBN without cover, they wanted and planned to do everything in the best possible way independently of each other. But life makes its own adjustments ... I doubt that in 10-11 years someone foresaw such a drop in oil, a lack of money, a dollar appreciation, a total break in ties with the West, the sanctions are vast, and indeed almost a war.
                So the situation when there is a championship, there are boats, but there is no cover, appeared later. And then there’s no choice, the boats are being built (not cut from now) and the championship must be held. So what remains is the maximum possible benefit from what happened to receive.
                We exchanged opinions, did not agree on them - so what?

                Well, of course, this is quite normal and even wonderful)
                In disputes (I do not like the word dispute in this phrase, usually something negative is meant by this word, I would say in discussions))) the truth is born.
                Holiday greetings drinks drinks
          2. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 29 December 2017 23: 10 New
            +1
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Quote: DarkMatter
            Therefore, I think the comparison of Mundial and Ashen is extremely inappropriate.
            Absolutely appropriate.

            You, a colleague, it seems that the person is not too young and has seen something in life. They should probably understand that different people steal money on Yasen and Mundial, and not the same people. And if all the money is given to the Yasenevites (by the way, it’s been counted out once or twice), then the builders (which are much larger and who are much thicker) may experience misunderstanding. This misunderstanding can entail much faster and more radical decisions than any geopolitical troubles.
  5. zak167
    zak167 29 December 2017 08: 59 New
    0
    It’s enough for Andrei from Chelyabinsk (the author of the article) to reprint articles from American magazines written by authors like Dave Majubar. If you think that only amateurs are in the Russian Defense Ministry, and you are much smarter than them, then go to the defense min or not. lately it has become a trend to write that our armed forces are weak, the military-industrial complex doesn’t suit anywhere, etc. No scribblers like you are good for anything. And we were tearing apart enemies. So we’ll tear it. God forbid, you will quickly dump to where you think a strong army can be served.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 29 December 2017 09: 11 New
      14
      Quote: zak167
      And we were tearing to pieces the enemies. So we will tear

      laughing good
      And a lot of narwhal? .... you personally?
      1. novel66
        novel66 29 December 2017 10: 32 New
        13
        after vodka with beer vomited non-stop!
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 29 December 2017 10: 51 New
          +9
          Stirlitz leaned over the map. He vomited uncontrollably homeland. ©
      2. Alex_59
        Alex_59 29 December 2017 11: 19 New
        +2
        Quote: Serg65
        And a lot of narwhal? .... you personally?

        Dada Udu Idi Amin won the war with the United States in one day.
        And what have you achieved in this life, insignificance? ))))))))))))))))
    2. FID
      FID 29 December 2017 09: 31 New
      +2
      I apologize, but ... Try to go to the MoD yourself, yes, that there is the MO, try to go to the deputies and decide at least medical care for pensioners who have done something that you will NEVER .... You have no time, you are on I'm tearing someone’s pieces ... Yes, I'm sorry, but you didn’t learn Russian at school ...
    3. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 29 December 2017 09: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: zak167
      .No scribblers like you are no good. And we are like tearing apart enemies. So we will tear.

      Something reminded ....
    4. 27091965
      27091965 29 December 2017 12: 39 New
      +1
      Quote: zak167
      It’s enough for Andrei from Chelyabinsk (the author of the article) to reprint articles from American magazines written by authors like Dave Majubar. If you think that only amateurs are sitting in the Russian Ministry of Defense, and you are much smarter than them, then go to the mines of defense, or weakly.


      What's bad about it? To know the opinion of a potential adversary, albeit from the periodical press, is also of interest. Or do you propose to write "glamorous" articles on a site with a military theme, and hard work of "pop stars". So for this they have their own sites.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        29 December 2017 18: 49 New
        +4
        Quote: 27091965i
        To know the opinion of a potential adversary, albeit from the periodical press, is also of interest

        Of course, but unfortunately I am deprived of such an opportunity, due to my lack of knowledge of the language, so blaming me for retyping something ... request
        1. 27091965
          27091965 29 December 2017 20: 25 New
          +1
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          so blame me for retyping something ...


          Good evening. I didn’t mean it. Not everyone wants to analyze and draw conclusions. Criticizing is easier. hi
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            29 December 2017 20: 51 New
            +3
            Good evening and with the upcoming! drinks
            Quote: 27091965i
            I didn’t mean it.

            Of course, I did not write about you, but about the person to whom you answered. He accused me of copy paste, of course not you
            1. 27091965
              27091965 29 December 2017 21: 22 New
              +1
              You too with the upcoming! drinks
              Reading some comments, sometimes I have a desire to “answer”, but I try to ignore it.
    5. The Siberian barber
      The Siberian barber 29 December 2017 13: 09 New
      +1
      Hde you saw something like that in the American editions ?? If it’s not difficult, discard the link, please read interesting))
      I partially agree with your thesis that we "tear and will tear enemies". BUT, there is one maaalenky question, WHAT PRICE ????
      About the military-industrial complex ... He, with us, is really strong ??)) As it were, life shows that it’s not quite) For example, constant transfers of dates, to the right, of various types of weapons. Is this not an indicator ?? If not, justify !!
      Together, shout "Hurray!" I personally, with pleasure, would be an objective reason
  6. Nehist
    Nehist 29 December 2017 09: 00 New
    +1
    The KTOF payroll looks impressive, quantitatively surpassing the KSF as much as the KSF as much as 52 versus 38, unfortunately on the move mainly IPC 1124 and its most recent modifications were put into operation in the year 91 and boats. Of the 4 ships of rank 1-2 formally in service, only 2 can go to sea without long delays. Well, about the underwater component, dear Andrei tells us. He served at KTOF for an urgent period of time at MIS. I had a chance to visit the first-born of our nuclear-powered submarines. A couple of KITs had been waiting for disposal since 91. And 40 kilometers from Vanino there was the main air force base of the CTOF Mongohta, the TU-22 division was based, and a lot of it was based there from naval aviation. In the late 90s and early 2000s, everyone bred unfortunately. And on Ulysses we began to give a pier for the Mistrals to build, but how everything went so abandoned ...
    1. Rushnairfors
      Rushnairfors 29 December 2017 12: 25 New
      +2
      Thanks Andrew for your articles, I read with pleasure.
  7. Monarchist
    Monarchist 29 December 2017 10: 59 New
    +1
    Quote: Serg65
    Quote: zak167
    And we were tearing to pieces the enemies. So we will tear

    laughing good
    And a lot of narwhal? .... you personally?

    Witty asked
  8. Tektor
    Tektor 29 December 2017 11: 25 New
    0
    I do not agree that strategic submarines should cover specialized nuclear submarines. The strategic deployment area can be effectively taken under control with the help of communications ships with appropriate support, both with the help of anti-submarine aircraft based on existing forces, and promising UAVs, as well as surface crewless drone boats.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 29 December 2017 11: 43 New
      +6
      Quote: Tektor
      The strategic deployment area can be effectively taken under control with the help of communications ships with appropriate support, both with the help of anti-submarine aircraft based on existing forces, and promising UAVs, as well as surface crewless drone boats.

      Will there be a Death Star?
      1. novel66
        novel66 29 December 2017 13: 00 New
        +5
        Ltd! Is this a cocktail? components ?? laughing drinks
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      29 December 2017 13: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: Tektor
      I do not agree that strategic submarines should cover specialized nuclear submarines.

      Not that specialized, but multi-purpose
      Quote: Tektor
      Strategists deployment area can be effectively controlled with communications ships

      With whom? With space?
      Quote: Tektor
      how with the help of anti-submarine aircraft based on existing forces

      Re-read the words of Komoedov
  9. tchoni
    tchoni 29 December 2017 11: 48 New
    0
    This, in essence, is about creating a register of officials previously convicted of corruption-related crimes.
    The author szhzhott !! -) No, it is kaneshno, the idea of ​​an underwater ridge with a vigorous engine is attractive and romantic, but, I'm afraid, absolutely impractical. The PLO task is much more convenient to lay on corvette small boats in the dimensions of the same karakurt and at the cost of 2-3 billion a tree apiece. At the price of a nuclear submarine fighter, they can build 15-30 pieces. And, even if each of them can cover a circle of only 30 km with a radius and build them only 15 pieces, then stretched out in a chain they will create a barrier 1000 km long))). Kudatam submarine fighter.
    Aot to the Husky - I’m afraid this boat is waiting for the fate of the “Almaty.” They will certainly make it super-universal, super-modern, but also super-expensive. And so much so that the famous "goldfish" sprat in oil will appear next to it.
    So, it seems to me that the author is right, expecting these lolks not earlier than the 30th year.
    And, in connection with this, a question arises for the project: "And, can we, well, her, ent, unification !? Let’s create a strategic strategist la quiet, let the adversaries of the pugabzzo?"
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 29 December 2017 11: 58 New
      +6
      Quote: tchoni
      The PLO task is much more convenient to lay on corvette small boats in the dimensions of the same karakurt and at the cost of 2-3 billion a piece apiece. At the price of a nuclear submarine fighter, you can build them 15-30. And, even if each of them can cover a circle of just 30 km radius and build them all 15 pieces, then stretched out in a chain they will create a barrier length of 1000 km))). Kudatam submarine fighter.

      what How famously did you twist the plot !!!! Bravo, bravo .... Osbeno failed this moment
      Quote: tchoni
      if each of them will be able to cover the circle of everything in 30 km radius and build them all 15 pieces, then stretched out in a chain they will create a barrier length of 1000 km

      good
      ..... and if we make 40 pieces, can we block the Equator? What do you think?
      1. The Siberian barber
        The Siberian barber 29 December 2017 13: 18 New
        0
        .. You can also go the way of kaklov: plan thousands of boats, with Garmin echo sounders, and sow them all the seas .. laughing
        1. tchoni
          tchoni 29 December 2017 13: 41 New
          0
          Quote: Siberian barber
          .. You can also go the way of kaklov: plan thousands of boats, with Garmin echo sounders, and sow them all the seas ..

          None, with a hat, they even walked around all this time, but another time - it’s inevitable for us to get the style of the gorilka)))) Vodka - that’s yes, it’s there, but the vodka - no)
      2. tchoni
        tchoni 29 December 2017 13: 39 New
        0
        Quote: Serg65
        ..... and if we make 40 pieces, can we block the Equator? What do you think?

        Yes Lyohka)))), BUT, IF 40 THOUSANDS WILL BE CONSTRUCTED)))
        Thank you, have fun koment hi
    2. Alex_59
      Alex_59 29 December 2017 12: 38 New
      +4
      Quote: tchoni
      the author is right, expecting these lolka not earlier than 30 of the year.

      A very clear typo.
      Torpedo to me at the bottom! Aircraft carrier to my bay! ))))))))
      1. novel66
        novel66 29 December 2017 13: 02 New
        +3
        and rocket, rocket !!! where ... there ... somewhere, in general!
        1. tchoni
          tchoni 29 December 2017 13: 42 New
          0
          Quote: novel xnumx
          and rocket, rocket !!! where ... there ... somewhere, in general!

          "WHO THROWED A BOOT ON THE REMOTE? - !!!!!
        2. Alex_59
          Alex_59 29 December 2017 14: 18 New
          +1
          Quote: novel xnumx
          and rocket, rocket !!! where ... there ... somewhere, in general!

          In the nozzle)))
          1. novel66
            novel66 29 December 2017 14: 35 New
            +3
            Well, I chose it myself
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 29 December 2017 14: 41 New
              +1
              Quote: novel xnumx
              Well, I chose it myself

              New Year same. Just a joke. ))) And in general I am not reative, I have ASH-82)))
              1. novel66
                novel66 29 December 2017 15: 17 New
                +3
                and instead of a heart a fiery motor! however, eating a lot of high-octane drinks
  10. Lexus
    Lexus 29 December 2017 11: 58 New
    +2
    Andrey, thanks for the continuation! But nevertheless, in my opinion, the desire to combine the incongruous and cram the uncanny is doubtful. In my opinion, it is not very good to combine submarines and SSBNs. Too different tasks for them. MAPL, for example, may need to act in shallow water, that is, weight and size restrictions are important. For SSBNs, it is important to ensure the secrecy of combat patrols with missiles on board, which means that silos should be installed in cushioning cups, which are difficult to “fit” into the MAPL dimensions. “The queen gave birth to a son or a daughter on the night ...” is the Indian “Arihant”. Neither this nor that. Yes, during the construction of the first Boreevs, backlogs were used in the buildings of the 971th project, but this was a necessary measure. You can use separate modules, for example, a reactor block (Vengard and Astyut use the same reactor, as well as Ohio and Sivulf, as far as I know), acoustics, mine and torpedo armaments, etc. But specialization .. The need for intercontinental SLBMs, the provision of the required casting weight (maneuvering units, RCGs, GLA) - it is unlikely that it will be possible to effectively "plug" all this into the MAPL body. Moreover, MAPL can be equipped with "Zircons" and their derivatives with increased range. Why bother with the garden at the same time?
    And it will turn out, as in a cartoon - there are a lot, but there is little sense ...
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      29 December 2017 13: 08 New
      +3
      Quote: lexus
      Andrey, thanks for the continuation!

      Welcome please!
      Quote: lexus
      In my opinion, it is not very good to combine submarines and SSBNs.

      I also think so, and since our point of view is shared by the gender of Malachite, we can assume that it is still correct drinks
  11. sergo1914
    sergo1914 29 December 2017 12: 56 New
    0
    1) "" Kazan. "Although the screw is hidden, but we see that it is still a screw, not a water cannon"

    Many times during the Soviet era during festive demonstrations I observed foreign objects on military equipment. Either some box is attached, then the scrap is welded somewhere on the side. As I understand it, this kind of "modernization" was carried out for our "partners". To break the brain. So do not pay attention to the appearance of technology at outdoor events.

    2) in order to understand what kind of future view we are given to Husky and Ash, we need to imagine what it is. To start. From the text it is clear that the author did not see the real drawings and TTX of the Husky, but he makes profound assumptions. What for?
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      29 December 2017 13: 10 New
      +4
      Quote: sergo1914
      Either some box is attached, then the scrap is welded somewhere on the side.

      Here the outlines of the screw are just guessed, but something welded is not visible. Massive water cannon
      Quote: sergo1914
      From the text it is clear that the author did not see the real drawings and TTX of the Husky, but he makes profound assumptions. What for?

      Once again :))) TTX and Husky's drawings were NOT seen by anyone, for the simple reason that today they do not exist in nature. And I spoke only in that part that it is not MAPL and SSBN in one bottle
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 29 December 2017 14: 34 New
        0
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        TTX and drawings of Husky NOBODY saw, for the simple reason that today they do not exist in nature. And I spoke only in that part that it is not MAPL and SSBN in one bottle


        If there are no drawings and performance characteristics, then where is such confidence?
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          29 December 2017 15: 01 New
          +4
          Quote: sergo1914
          If there are no drawings and performance characteristics, then where is such confidence?

          That is, the words of the Director General of Malachite, for a second, the developer of the Husky - is this about anything? wassat
          1. sergo1914
            sergo1914 29 December 2017 19: 52 New
            0
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Quote: sergo1914
            If there are no drawings and performance characteristics, then where is such confidence?

            That is, the words of the Director General of Malachite, for a second, the developer of the Husky - is this about anything? wassat


            A related state secret non-disclosure subscription? Naturally.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              29 December 2017 20: 50 New
              +2
              Quote: sergo1914
              A related state secret non-disclosure subscription? Naturally.

              What you do is called "katahreza" in other words - a logical mistake. You declare the words of the journalist spoken from the words of the official as true, and the words of the official as false, because he gave the subscription.
              There are 2 possibilities, either MAPL and SSBN can be completely unified or not. We have 2 tall faces, one of which (although this is not so) says that it is possible, the second that it is impossible. By your logic, one of them revealed to the state secret :))))) And you, at your own discretion, chose who exactly :))))
              Sorry, you have to be friends with logic :)
              1. sergo1914
                sergo1914 29 December 2017 23: 50 New
                +1
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Quote: sergo1914
                A related state secret non-disclosure subscription? Naturally.

                What you do is called "katahreza" in other words - a logical mistake. You declare the words of the journalist spoken from the words of the official as true, and the words of the official as false, because he gave the subscription.
                There are 2 possibilities, either MAPL and SSBN can be completely unified or not. We have 2 tall faces, one of which (although this is not so) says that it is possible, the second that it is impossible. By your logic, one of them revealed to the state secret :))))) And you, at your own discretion, chose who exactly :))))
                Sorry, you have to be friends with logic :)


                Dear Andrey from Chelyabinsk, Sergey from Severodvinsk answers you. All my friends, relatives and acquaintances are somehow connected with the NSR. Some of them are building. Part - rides on the built. In the house where parents live a floor below, the Builder Dude lived. Well, you write about the submarine fleet, so you know such a person? What am I doing? Your provocation is funny in its naivety. I will not answer. My subscription has ended a long time ago. Reflexes remained. There are things that are not worth talking about in open sources. Even if you really want to demonstrate your awareness and coolness.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  30 December 2017 00: 41 New
                  +3
                  Quote: sergo1914
                  All my friends, relatives and acquaintances are somehow connected with the NSR. Some of them are building. Part - rides on the built. In the house where parents live a floor below, the Builder Dude lived. Well, you write about the submarine fleet, so you know such a person? What am I doing?

                  Apparently to the fact that essentially you have nothing to say. Whoever lives a floor below your esteemed parents, this has nothing to do with our conversation.
      2. Lexus
        Lexus 29 December 2017 17: 24 New
        +2
        Here the outlines of the screw are just guessed

        In 2013 he was in the Crimea. I saw Alrosa. I was tormented by the question: what went wrong? The boat was built in 1988 with a water cannon. Which diesel engine, in general, is useless (underwater quiet run of 2-6 knots (for all diesel-electric submarines, even with VNEU), full 18-20 knots, but then the battery charge is enough for a couple of hours of work, under the RDP worry about noise screw is generally funny). It can be useful only in shallow water and when working on the ground. And the handsome “having no analogues” “Ash” with the usual “fan”, although he has an underwater “economy” - just 18-20 knots. After all, EVERYTHING (Sivulf, Virginia, Astyut, Barracuda) is already with "meat grinders."
      3. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 29 December 2017 18: 42 New
        0
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Then the outlines of the screw are just guessed,

        Yes, the screws are so far on Yasen, it’s only unclear whether it’s good or bad, Andrey painted everything in detail in the article.
      4. Lexus
        Lexus 29 December 2017 20: 32 New
        +4
        Yes, I carefully read all the arguments in favor of the screw. In your performance, they are quite logical, but given the length of the Ashen construction cycle, the likelihood of abandoning a water cannon "for technical reasons" is more likely than well-intentioned. Alas, there are many examples. From the lips of our specialists in the Moscow Region more than once it was proved with foam at the mouth that PFAR is cool itself. And the fact is that there has not been, and still is not, a working AFAR. "Cornet" - the best - yes to fight the natives. Because there is a huge failure in the GOS of the land investigators, and even more for the money. If you want to convince me of the opposite, I would like to be the operator of the Kornet anti-tank system in the fight against a tank equipped with a laser counteraction system like the Chinese JD-3. which will burn the petals, or try to hit the tank in bad weather, haze from tears or through the exposed smoke screen, and then, when they wind on the tracks, be proud that they are not as "stubborn" as me. If until then the OFS does not arrive.
  12. Andrew
    Andrew 29 December 2017 13: 20 New
    0
    Guys, who can explain to me what this new submarine Borey-B is for? Is this a continuation of the Borey and Borey-A SSBNs or a combat submarine? Is "B" combat? Like counterparts to the current "Anteyam"?
    1. The Siberian barber
      The Siberian barber 29 December 2017 13: 28 New
      0
      The same "Northwind", "Northwind A", only advanced
  13. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 29 December 2017 14: 06 New
    +2
    Add some more statistics. If everything is in “chocolate” and all plans are fulfilled, then, according to the latest data, we get that Project 955A boats will go to the Navy: “Prince Vladimir” in 2018 (planned for the Northern Fleet), “Prince Oleg” - in 2019 (Federation Council), Suvorov and Alexander III - 2020 (Pacific Fleet), Prince Pozharsky - 2021 (Federation Council). Project 855M boats: Kazan - 2018 (Northern Fleet), Novosibirsk - 2019 (Pacific Fleet), Krasnoyarsk - 2020 (Pacific Fleet), Arkhangelsk - 2021 (Northern Fleet), Perm - 2022 (Pacific Fleet), " Ulyanovsk "- 2023 (SF).
    But the new generation nuclear submarine "Husky" is planned to lay in 2024-25. As a result, we will have a “failure” of 8 years in the construction of nuclear submarines. That is, within 8 years from 2017 to 2025 not a single MAPL will be laid. With the "strategists" the question seems to have been decided. 4 “Borea-B” will be additionally laid down, but for multipurpose so far everything is sad. There is a way out - to plan the continuation of the construction of a series of Project 885M boats until the Husky is laid down.
  14. ZVO
    ZVO 29 December 2017 15: 23 New
    0
    Quote: Oden280
    . If there is a threatening period, then the boats will leave normally, since in peacetime no one will throw mines at the fairway


    And what happened to the Baltic before June 22, 1941?
    Do you remember? you are our naval ....
  15. The comment was deleted.
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 29 December 2017 17: 06 New
      +6
      Our “Andrey from Chelyabinsk” costs many others from the Polar or Western Faces. It may not be naval, but it can think, analyze and draw conclusions. Let even sometimes erroneous. A naval school and a pair of academies behind do not always guarantee the availability of knowledge and fidelity of reasoning. It is enough to read another nonsense from Konstantin Sivkov.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          14 January 2018 11: 12 New
          +1
          (yawning) well, write something, wise guy. Read laughing
  16. Cyril Troekurych
    Cyril Troekurych 29 December 2017 17: 04 New
    0
    abzohen wei
    Javgeans spread all the loot
    Kremlin are digging
  17. Nemesis
    Nemesis 29 December 2017 17: 13 New
    +2
    Yes, the situation is very sad, because Putin has money to give Uzbekistan 12 Mi-35 helicopters, but there is no money to replace the Mi-24 with the Mi-35 in the Russian Aerospace Forces, as well as there is no money for timely updating fleet ... But they are for Chubais and the company ... It is obvious that so far the people in power in the Russian Federation will not be able to develop Yeltsin’s RF.
  18. rudolff
    rudolff 29 December 2017 18: 13 New
    +1
    About Ash. In principle, Andrei basically wrote everything correctly. I will add. There is Severodvinsk and there is the Ash project. They usually say about Severodvinsk: "I blinded you from what was." During its long-term construction, many research institutes and design bureaus degraded to the level of a ship model circle or completely ceased to exist. There was simply nothing to bet on Severodvinsk. It’s good that even with VPU under Caliber / Onyx they ripened. As a result, in the course of the project, it was necessary to make changes to the existing backlog and systems, aggregates, components from ships of previous generations went into the process. First of all, with pr. 971 and to a lesser extent with 949A. In fact, Severodvinsk, this is the same 971th project, but in the new ship architecture and with VPU. The modernized Ash (Kazan), this is not a modernization, but an attempt to catch up with yesterday, that is, bring the project into its original state. Is Ash as good as a project? On a solid four, yes. But much of the plan was never realized. Already, he is starting to lag behind the latest Virginia Blocks. That's why they started talking about Husky. And it’s not at all the price of Ash.
  19. rudolff
    rudolff 29 December 2017 18: 35 New
    +3
    About water cannons. It is not so simple. The water cannon is effective at high speeds, the propeller at low. Comparison with aviation is appropriate. On airplanes that do not require high flight speeds, there are still propellers, for those who are faster - turbojet engines.
    This raises the following question: what speed is more important? Nuclear submarines, on average, have a maximum of 30 knots, but most of the time in the sea is spent on small low-noise passages. So screw is preferable. But here is the dilemma again. From generation to generation of submarines, the so-called maximum low-noise stroke is growing. Now this parameter has already stepped over 10 knots, and the Americans are approaching 20. But here a water cannon can give odds to the screw in terms of efficiency and noise. The choice is easier for Americans, it’s more difficult for us. Another circumstance looms on the horizon. Full electric movement. As soon as the GTZA is removed, the maximum low-noise will become even higher, then God himself ordered the water cannon. As for Alrosa, this is an engineering and technical misunderstanding. I don’t even know who put it on the drill (not experimental) diesel-electric submarine with the main economical move of 2-3 knots.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      29 December 2017 18: 44 New
      +3
      Happy New Year! drinks
      Quote: rudolff
      I don’t even know who put it on the drill (not experimental) diesel-electric submarine with the main economical move of 2-3 knots.

      Nuuuuu ... maybe they just wanted to check how it would work? Yet 877 under water 19 knots for a short time is able to develop, so they decided to "check the concept"?
      1. rudolff
        rudolff 29 December 2017 19: 04 New
        +1
        And you with a holiday, Andrew!
        drinks
  20. rudolff
    rudolff 29 December 2017 18: 59 New
    +4
    About Husky. It is not even a matter of shaping the appearance or protecting the outline design. The same Malachite will draw any project of any generation for a maximum of a year. The point is the capabilities of our science and our technologies. Again, you can compare with aviation. Speaking of the fifth generation, stealth and cruising supersonic are often meant. For submarines, these are non-rechargeable reactors for the entire life cycle of a ship, this is a rejection of forced cooling of the reactor (circulation pump), this is a transition to full electric movement and, as a consequence, a rejection of GTZA. Well and so on trifles. We wanted to realize a lot of this back in Yasen. Alas. Will technology keep up with Husky? Nobody knows. We haven’t ripened to Lada, we dream about Kalina.
  21. rudolff
    rudolff 29 December 2017 19: 26 New
    +5
    About PLO. It is simply impossible to cover vast sea areas with any outfit of anti-submarine ships after some miles there. It is always a combination of forces and means. Controlling the sea area does not mean keeping a bunch of ships and the darkness of aviation there. The main thing is to know about penetration into the area, the rest is attached. In relation to our conditions, in particular, to the Barents and Okhotsk, we have been implementing the EGSONPO construction program since the beginning of the 2000s. Unified state lighting system for surface and underwater conditions. Allegedly being implemented. Because, apart from its individual disparate elements, the horse did not lie there. And the Americans, sometimes the British in the Barents, hang out at home. We have the same terrible state with the mine-sweeping fleet. We can be locked up at any moment in our own bases and there is simply nothing to oppose us with. A pair of fiberglass, when you need many dozens of new minesweepers. And today, and not the day after tomorrow. But on the other hand, we love to boast of these castrated Patrolmen or RTOs, from which they are worth a penny.
  22. java1124
    java1124 29 December 2017 19: 34 New
    0
    Andrei.
    Swedish scientists calculated the power of the explosion in Chernobyl at 75 tons of TNT, one or two hundredth of the power of a bomb in Hiroshima, 272 thousand people were injured in Chernobyl.
    A Nuclear Jet at Chernobyl Around 21:23:45 UTC on April 25, 1986
    Lars-Erik De Geer ORCID Icon, Christer Persson & Henning Rodhe
    Pages 1-12 | Received 18 May 2017, Accepted 20 Sep 2017, Published online: 16 Nov 2017
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      29 December 2017 20: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: java1124
      Swedish scientists calculated the power of the explosion in Chernobyl at 75 tons of TNT, one or two hundredth of the power of a bomb in Hiroshima, 272 thousand people were injured in Chernobyl.

      What does it mean - 272 thousand people were affected, tell me please.
  23. san4es
    san4es 29 December 2017 19: 45 New
    +2
    "Malachite" became the developer of the most successful and advanced MAPL of the USSR "Pike" and "Pike-B"

  24. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 29 December 2017 22: 12 New
    0
    you need to abandon the construction of surface ships and cut money on nuclear submarines
  25. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 30 December 2017 00: 35 New
    0
    And how is it supposed to be done so that anti-submarine boats protect strategic boats in the places of their patrol from enemy anti-submarine boats? After all, both those and others, and the third must be hidden, it is very difficult for them to find each other and can not get in touch. When you see something, you need to figure out whether your own or a stranger is in front of you, and at the same time not get on the sight of someone else's, or maybe your own by mistake. And also to avoid accidental collisions. If these problems have no solution, then strategists are better off relying only on themselves. Then, for the retaliation strike, it is not very important how many anti-submarine boats we have, but it is important that the “strategists” themselves have good ears and good teeth and not let anyone in.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      30 December 2017 00: 43 New
      +3
      Quote: Falcon5555
      And how is it supposed to be done so that anti-submarine boats protect strategic boats in the places of their patrol from enemy anti-submarine boats?

      By identifying and destroying these very enemy boats
      Quote: Falcon5555
      When you see something, you need to figure out whether your own or a stranger is in front of you

      No need, their positions are well known.
      1. Falcon5555
        Falcon5555 30 December 2017 01: 01 New
        0
        What positions? .. They do not stand still.
        And by the way, in addition to the previous post, in addition to sorting out whether your own or a stranger is in front of you, you sometimes need to give the commander of the boat that is "in front of you" the opportunity to sort out the same one so that he makes the right decision if he understands that came under surveillance before it is taken. In this case, both boats must not fall under the supervision of a third, especially if it is a stranger. Can begin to unmask each other and friendly shooting, in general chaos.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          30 December 2017 01: 30 New
          +2
          Quote: Falcon5555
          What positions? .. They do not stand still.

          These are called patrol areas. They do not intersect.
          Quote: Falcon5555
          Can begin to unmask each other and friendly shooting, in general chaos.

          Can not.
          1. Falcon5555
            Falcon5555 30 December 2017 12: 45 New
            0
            That "position", then, it turns out, this is called "patrol areas", then it turns out that they do not intersect. What does not overlap? How not to intersect? What does anyone know? For example, do Americans know the patrol areas of our strategists? After all, this is also called "position", and they are "well known", according to your previous post. They are well known to ours, but unknown to the Americans? - I do not believe. Either they are flexibly changing, or they are really known to everyone. They can still be so large - for example, the entire Sea of ​​Okhotsk at once, that there can obviously be many of our boats, that is, there will be no individual areas or they will intersect. If Pike sees an unidentified boat in our patrol area - what are its actions? If our strategist sees an unidentified boat in his patrol area, his actions in peacetime? If this is an American, then obviously leave your area and go ... where? In another area, probably in a stranger. Moreover, communication is impossible or problematic. But it may turn out to be Pike, which for some reason is here, for example, passes through it or chases and watches the American. How to find out? If barely audible, then, it is hardly possible to easily and reliably recognize by sound. Then the actions of our strategist?
            Can not.

            Can.

            Still. Here you write: "we already touched upon the sufficiency of our nuclear missile shield and came to the conclusion that one and a half thousand warheads would not be enough for the total destruction of the United States immediately." And who is this “we” in this sentence? - Because we did not come to that conclusion. On the contrary, they explained to you that your calculations are not correct and the conclusion is not substantiated.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              30 December 2017 17: 53 New
              +3
              Quote: Falcon5555
              That "position", then, it turns out, this is called "patrol areas", then it turns out that they do not intersect. What does not overlap? How not to intersect? What does anyone know?

              What kind of stream of consciousness?
              There is a certain territory. There is a procedure for deploying SSBNs, their routes are known to the command, MAPL, and so on, who are involved in guarding the IWR. Each "guard" (it doesn’t matter, submarines, NK, aircraft) knows his own "square" - the search area. If someone has to go through their search area from their own, then the Tax Code is informed about this in advance, even before he went on patrol. At the same time, of course, everything is known - here are the terms of nomination along the routes and the routes themselves. Everything that does not fit into the previously known is subject to destruction
              OVR security is a well-functioning mechanism where everything happens as planned, herds of submarines don’t go there for all four
              Quote: Falcon5555
              If our strategist sees an unidentified boat in his patrol area, his actions in peacetime? If this is an American, then obviously leave your area and go ... where?

              He discovered an unknown submarine in peacetime - he tried to break away quietly, but failed - he informed the command. A meeting committee has arrived - a maneuver to detach into the transition to a predetermined area.
              Quote: Falcon5555
              Here you write: "we already touched upon the sufficiency of our nuclear missile shield and came to the conclusion that one and a half thousand warheads would not be enough for the total destruction of the United States immediately." And who is this “we” in this sentence?

              The author of the article should write about himself either in the third person (the author of the article considers) or in the plural. You don’t even know such basics?
              Quote: Falcon5555
              On the contrary, they explained to you that your calculations are not correct and the conclusion is not substantiated.

              Explanations not accepted due to incompetence
              1. Falcon5555
                Falcon5555 30 December 2017 20: 44 New
                0
                What kind of stream of consciousness? ... You don’t even know such basics? ... Explanations are not accepted because of their incompetence

                Yeah ... laughing You are our competent! But the basics, I know. However, I will not explain them to you, because I see that you have accepted the usual and not very smart position of an Internet blogger or forum participant who is trying to hide his ignorance behind personal attacks on critics. All this nonsense that you write here in this post.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  30 December 2017 23: 05 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  However, I will not explain them to you

                  Have you tried? In addition to a stream of frankly illiterate questions, I somehow did not see anything
              2. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 30 December 2017 21: 22 New
                0
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                The author of the article should write about himself either in the third person (the author of the article considers) or in the plural

                Well, actually "we" in academic work means "me and my supervisor." In journalism, the "I" is quite acceptable, although in a number of publications it is considered a good form to avoid it with the help of impersonal turns ("it seems", "it seems", etc.).
                However, these are trifles. Everyone writes as they prefer. Your work reads quite normally.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  30 December 2017 23: 06 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Well, actually "we" in academic work means "me and my supervisor."

                  Yes, but it seems to have become a commonplace.
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  In journalism, the “I” is quite acceptable, although in a number of publications it is considered a good form to avoid it with the help of impersonal turns (“seems”, “seems”, etc.)

                  Probably, in the future I will do this and I will, thanks!
                  Happy New Year! hi
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 30 December 2017 23: 24 New
                    0
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Probably in the future I will do so

                    The Internet has greatly expanded the understanding of what is acceptable in style. So no need to bother with your head. As it is written, so are the norms. It says "we" - let it be "we"
                2. Falcon5555
                  Falcon5555 31 December 2017 02: 10 New
                  0
                  Well, actually "we" in academic work means "me and my supervisor."
                  If the author has a "leader", then he is usually a co-author, and we mean all the authors. “We” is rarely used in scientific works with one author and not in conclusions and has a completely different meaning. But I will refrain from prompting our "competent" comrade.
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. gregor6549
    gregor6549 30 December 2017 08: 16 New
    +1
    Another competent and sober article. Another big plus. True. I see no reason for particular sadness. Because The Russian fleet, even in its current state and in combination with other strategic components of the Russian Armed Forces, has such potential that a likely adversary is unlikely to want to try Russia on the tooth, even if this enemy surrounds Russia with a fence made of anti-missile defense and anti-aircraft missile defense. And even one of the more or less worthy opponents has no special sense in fighting with Russia. Indeed, the main thing is not to fight, but to ensure that cash flows into the pocket of the military-industrial complex do not weaken. Therefore, they scare everyone and, most importantly, themselves, with a terrible military threat from the side of Russia. The funny thing is that similar processes are going on in Russia.
  28. java1124
    java1124 30 December 2017 10: 57 New
    0
    Andrei.
    The emission of radiation was in the northeastern direction, Kiev was lucky. More than 600 thousand military men, mostly stockpiles, were older than 30 years participated in the liquidation of the accident. By 2010, I had practically no familiar participants, the radiation could not make out the military or civilian, how many hours or years left to suffer a lot
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      30 December 2017 12: 21 New
      +2
      To eliminate the disaster at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, 240 thousand people were called from the Russian Federation. (we are talking only about the Russian Federation, without other CIS countries) In 2016, for various reasons, 90 thousand Russian liquidators passed away. Of these, 10 thousand established a causal relationship, that is, one way or another, death is associated with the consequences of the accident.
  29. java1124
    java1124 30 December 2017 11: 13 New
    0
    The reactor vessel was designed and accepted almost the entire blow, glory to the developers, which saved from the worst
  30. java1124
    java1124 30 December 2017 11: 20 New
    0
    The Voivode-Satan system is designed to draw any city on the planet from the list of living, why the amers are shaking from it
  31. xomaNN
    xomaNN 30 December 2017 12: 01 New
    +1
    The heyday of Soviet military shipbuilding in the early 80s. And the conveyor almost construction of nuclear submarines at the NSR in Severodvinsk was particularly impressive. And, yes, the mailboxes of the entire USSR saturated every building with thousands of systems, devices, and so on. And, what is now being done in the ship industry must be equated with the "failure" of the 90s. Then, under, the Union, my allies for the fuel dispenser systems of the 1st compartment were from Ukraine and Azerbaijan, etc. And now everything, often with "0" was done in the Russian Federation.
  32. 3danimal
    3danimal 30 December 2017 19: 26 New
    0
    Quote: Serg65
    this is Peter I and Stalin!

    I wonder what you mean by that phrase? What is the set of actions?

    Personally, I believe that the dictatorship is contraindicated for Russia (and for everyone else). As a rule, they, these dictators, they are still scoundrels (remember the "Dad's dad" Duvalier, Pol Pot), or they quickly become them. As world practice shows, even with the best dictator, the system is short-lived - because the next one will definitely be the bastard-degradant, who will eat, plunder, and ruin everything.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 30 December 2017 21: 26 New
      0
      Quote: 3danimal
      Personally, I believe that dictatorship is contraindicated for Russia (and for everyone else)

      It is not entirely clear what you mean by dictatorship. Of the countries that were pursuing catch-up modernization, there were not so many democracies in the full sense of the word, although in recent times it has become more.
  33. Eflintuk
    Eflintuk 30 December 2017 23: 09 New
    0
    The correct article. Not all zombie-cheers-patriots squeal with happiness. It’s pointless to take the cost of our weapons and how much they “take” out of the budget there - it’s just the salary of all workers in our industry that actually works only on the military-industrial complex. Looking at our technologies, this easy assignment of new “generations” and other M and + to equipment produced on the same equipment as dozens of years ago is surprising - there are no miracles. At least they can draw some malachite rubies, but the result will be the same locomotive. And the sanctions against us are in fact very serious, we are simply lowered into the "Stone Age" in relation to the rest of the civilization running forward. Of course, we must somehow spin ourselves, but .... to make a high-precision machine, you need a machine with an order of higher accuracy - and so on, otherwise the submarine turns into a roaring cow (this is, for example, for a better understanding of “how it is done” :).
    1. Town Hall
      Town Hall 30 December 2017 23: 28 New
      0
      Quote: EFLINTuk
      . Looking at our technologies, this easy assignment of new “generations” and other M and + to equipment produced on the same equipment as dozens of years ago is surprising - there are no miracles.
  34. Town Hall
    Town Hall 31 December 2017 00: 09 New
    0
    Quote: Town Hall
    Quote: EFLINTuk
    . Looking at our technologies, this easy assignment of new “generations” and other M and + to equipment produced on the same equipment as dozens of years ago is surprising - there are no miracles.




    Well, why. There are a lot of people, even quite well-read, who seriously believe that the same design bureaus and factories which poured money under the Union and still produced “roaring cows” suddenly with incomparably less funding, the loss of a large part of the scientific and industrial base, allies, etc. Suddenly suddenly made a huge leap and caught up and overtook.
    1. sabotage
      sabotage 31 December 2017 09: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: Town Hall
      Quote: Town Hall
      Quote: EFLINTuk
      . Looking at our technologies, this easy assignment of new “generations” and other M and + to equipment produced on the same equipment as dozens of years ago is surprising - there are no miracles.




      Well, why. There are a lot of people, even quite well-read, who seriously believe that the same design bureaus and factories which poured money under the Union and still produced “roaring cows” suddenly with incomparably less funding, the loss of a large part of the scientific and industrial base, allies, etc. Suddenly suddenly made a huge leap and caught up and overtook.

      This opinion is based on the assumption that in the late 80s the Soviet Union caught up with the West in technology, but lost in the economy. That is, they could already do cool, but did not have time to do it.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        31 December 2017 10: 29 New
        +2
        Quote: sabotage
        That is, they could already do cool, but did not have time to do it.

        And why - did not have time? The same Pike-B - improved Pike-B was quite at the level of "moose" including "improved", sorry my French :)))
        1. sabotage
          sabotage 31 December 2017 14: 19 New
          0
          This is where the question pops up in economics. How many elk stamped dear partners and how many Pike could the Soviet industry overpower? Even in spite of the relatively low salaries of hard workers, engineers and designers to organize efficient production failed.
        2. Town Hall
          Town Hall 31 December 2017 21: 37 New
          0
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: sabotage
          That is, they could already do cool, but did not have time to do it.

          And why - did not have time? The same Pike-B - improved Pike-B was quite at the level of "moose" including "improved", sorry my French :)))



          Quite a few serious experts consider such statements about Pike-B = Los Angeles, to put it mildly, unfounded. They cause only a sad grin. All the vices of the "roaring cows" in pike -b were left-double-shell, nasal TA, poor Soviet electronics, etc., etc. If you think that Toshiba’s smuggling machines, which made it possible to reduce the prohibitive noise of screws, solved all the problems of Soviet nuclear submarines that lasted for decades, then you are mistaken.


          About how things went after the 91st, you know better than me.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            1 January 2018 01: 38 New
            +2
            Quote: Town Hall
            Many serious experts consider

            Announce the whole list, please :)))
  35. Scaffold
    Scaffold 31 December 2017 18: 32 New
    0
    Great articles, Andrey! I always read with pleasure!
    There is one topic that, I think, you could cover very interestingly: this is traditionally the increased diversity of similar weapons in the USSR / Russia in comparison with the USA and Europe (tanks are a great example). I do not mean that this is certainly bad, on the contrary - it would be interesting to understand this objectively.
    Happy New Year!
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      31 December 2017 19: 35 New
      +2
      Thank you for the kind words!
      Quote: Scaffold
      There is one topic that, I think, you could cover very interestingly: this is traditionally the increased diversity of similar types of weapons in the USSR

      Everything is quite complicated here, maybe I’ll take a thread :)
  36. asr55
    asr55 1 January 2018 22: 46 New
    0
    Do not be sad, Dryun is the author of this scripture and count how many strips are on the vest. Judging by your knowledge, you just need to start from this.
  37. turbris
    turbris 3 January 2018 21: 35 New
    0
    First, how much can you trust the author and his information about the number and combat readiness of submarines in the fleets? Probably, such data are not published in the open press, and that which he previously had information about is already hopelessly outdated. Secondly, the author is again going to fight the whole world with one submarine fleet, not in vain he remembered the British submarines, but forgot to mention the French. Thirdly, what is the purpose of the author’s publications? Why does he do such reviews to prove that the US submarine fleet is currently superior in number of boats to the Russian submarine fleet, so he always surpassed it and what next?
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      3 January 2018 21: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: turbris
      Probably such data are not printed in the open press

      Sorry, Sun banned Google? :)))) Are printed and how
      Quote: turbris
      Secondly, the author is again going to fight the whole world with one submarine fleet

      why - with the whole world? We are talking about a probable adversary, in which the United States and NATO go. And as for the surface .. I hasten to upset, everything is much worse there than with the underwater
      Quote: turbris
      it was not for nothing that I remembered British submarines, but forgot to mention the French

      They won’t go to our shores, but the British can
      Quote: turbris
      Thirdly, what is the purpose of the author’s publications?

      Show the current state of the fleet and its ability to perform its tasks.
  38. DenZ
    DenZ 3 January 2018 23: 38 New
    0
    “On each of our SSBNs there are 16 intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), and in total, it turns out, 176 ICBMs. Counting 4 combat units for each missile, we get 704 military units”
    Andrei, this is only approximate mathematics, since there can also be one block in the warhead on SLBMs (this does not prohibit START-3) How many monoblock b / h are on these missiles we naturally don’t recognize.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      4 January 2018 00: 30 New
      +1
      This is certainly true. Maybe one, maybe eight. Therefore, I take on average.
      In addition to this, we do not have many land-based ICBMs; on them, all the charges that we are allowed to deploy cannot be taken away
      1. DenZ
        DenZ 4 January 2018 17: 24 New
        0
        Here smart people tell me that one can only put one head on R-29 family missiles (R-29RMU and other modifications up to Sineva) only if a blank of the same mass is placed on the other side of the missile axis (there the engine nozzle passes in the center of the compartment ( as can be seen from the schemes from open sources)).
  39. turbris
    turbris 4 January 2018 10: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Sorry, Sun banned Google? :)))) Are printed and how

    So you need to indicate that this is data from Google, so you can’t take it seriously, especially since some analyzes are based on it.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      4 January 2018 12: 21 New
      +1
      Quote: turbris
      So you need to indicate that this is data from Google

      Everywhere I write that according to open sources
      Quote: turbris
      therefore, it’s impossible to take them seriously, especially since some analyzes are based on them

      Well, don’t be concerned live in the illusion that 100500 nuclear submarines are on guard of the fatherland :)
  40. varyag
    varyag 4 January 2018 16: 54 New
    0
    All this will end badly. Wangyu, in 10-15 years we "will not recognize Russia." Unless, of course, these people come to their senses.
  41. looker-on
    looker-on 5 January 2018 16: 05 New
    0
    Quote: zak167
    It’s enough for Andrei from Chelyabinsk (the author of the article) to reprint articles from American magazines written by authors like Dave Majubar. If you think that only amateurs are in the Russian Defense Ministry, and you are much smarter than them, then go to the defense min or not. lately it has become a trend to write that our armed forces are weak, the military-industrial complex doesn’t suit anywhere, etc. No scribblers like you are good for anything. And we were tearing apart enemies. So we’ll tear it. God forbid, you will quickly dump to where you think a strong army can be served.


    recourse read books is useful. The brain will develop. And Andrei’s articles are those people who can think and analyze. PS Read his articles on the Falkland Conflict! A huge, wonderful job!
  42. zdrastemardaste
    zdrastemardaste 20 November 2018 02: 30 New
    0
    We have problems, of course, but I don’t think that the same people with their friends do not have them, and quantity does not mean quality