Military Review

FSB director hit human rights activists with numbers

99
The celebration of the centenary of the security organs is over. As always, there were a lot of congratulations from officials and non-officials. There were employee awards. There were festive events in the units. It was all that is necessary in such cases.




And, as often happens, against this background, an imperceptibly important event passed unnoticed. FSB Director General of the Army Alexander Bortnikov gave an excellent interview to the “Rossiyskaya Gazeta” about the path that the department had taken during those hundred years.

The interview is interesting. And it’s interesting not so much as a story about the organization of the special service, about the goals and tasks of the Chekists in different periods of the life of the Soviet state and modern Russia, as with a multitude of figures that excited the minds of whole generations.

For many decades we have been arguing about the repression of the 30-s. Many readers remember the different-sized figures from various "memorials" and similar organizations. Millions of people shot. Millions of repressed. Millions scared. A terrible picture of the life of the country in the prewar period.

But most importantly, it was impossible to refute or prove the number of repressed people. The specifics of the work of security agencies does not allow open work in the archives. Many materials constitute a state secret so far.

General Bortnikov called the numbers. Those who were interested in a question earlier, these figures know. And for those who are not in the subject, I will quote from an interview: "At the end of 1980-s, the certificate of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs from 1954 on the number of people convicted of counter-revolutionary and other especially dangerous state crimes, including banditry and military espionage, was declassified , in 1921-1953 - 4 060 306 people. Of these, 642 980 was sentenced to capital punishment, and 765 180 was sentenced to exile and deportation. All other figures are debatable. "

As you can see, the bloody security officers, according to documented materials, millions of people were not executed. Yes, there were opponents of the Soviet state, there were those who sabotaged, who went on sabotage, who distributed anti-Soviet materials. But the number of convicts in Stalin's time did not differ from the number of convicts at other times.

For a long time the idea was cultivated in the country that the KGB of that time were practically full-fledged masters. In any post-Soviet film about the war or the pre-war years of the USSR, you can see such characters. Honestly, at some time I also believed that the NKVD was omnipotent.

But two thoughts have completely eliminated this confidence. First, why did the omnipotent NKVD so seriously cleaned Beria? And the second: why are many repressed security officers rehabilitated when Khrushchev is not at all fond of the special services? The answer is, again, in an interview with Bortnikov: "In total, 1933-1939 had repressed 22 618 security officers, including the first Soviet counterintelligence officers A. Artuzov, K. Zvonarev, and others. Only in the period of the so-called Yezhovshchina, the composition of the counterintelligence team was updated three times Department of the State Security Directorate (GUGB) NKVD ".

It is clear that, as in other departments, the NKVD had such characters, which are shown by our actors in modern films. Intelligence agencies are made up of the same citizens as other enterprises and organizations. And these criminals have not been rehabilitated. Those whose guilt is proven, have remained criminals.

“At the same time, I don’t want to whitewash anyone. Specific perpetrators of criminal acts among Chekists are known by name, most of them suffered a well-deserved punishment after the removal and execution of Yezhov. A trial was also held stories: during the periods of mass rehabilitation of 1950 and the end of 1980, the sentences in their cases were found to be final and not subject to review. "

The fact that General Bortnikov voiced was necessary for our society for a long time. Not even necessary for the regular rehabilitation of the repressed. This is necessary for our further development.

The shackles of the past still prevent us from running up to a leap into the future. Any dispute with our foreign "partners" from the former socialist camp necessarily comes to reprisals from us and, as a result, from them. I think the head of the FSB, promulgating many figures, decently kicked all the "fighters against the Soviet regime."

There is another topic that is close to the majority of Russians. This is the theme of the Great Patriotic War. Do not quote the army general, I just can not.

"From the very beginning of the war, all security officers were mobilized. They took part in the fighting consisting of 53 divisions and 20 brigades of the NKVD, separate units and border troops. Only in the battle for Moscow 4 divisions, 2 brigades and a fighter air regiment of the NKVD fought. Our the pilots made more than 2 thousand sorties to cover the Soviet troops and repel enemy air attacks. aviation The NKVD performed flights to besieged Leningrad and provided special communications for the Headquarters of the High Command with the headquarters of the fronts and armies. In 1943, the 70th Army of the NKVD, which became the 70th Army, was included in the Red Army. She went a heroic journey from the Kursk to the capture of Berlin. "

It is clear that the head of the FSB did not voice the answers to many questions about the current state of the organs. As I wrote above, much will be hidden behind the top of secrecy for another decade. Pleased with another.

Probably for the first time an attempt was made to explain to the people some events of the past. An attempt to explain not only well-known facts, but also why much was impossible. Where did party functionaries get piles of gold things. Why the special services of that time could not conduct work against the top of the state.

Bortnikov did not exalt and did not reduce the role of his department in the life of the USSR and modern Russia. And the main thought left at the end of the interview.

"Now the FSB of Russia is free from political influence and does not serve any party or group interests. It builds its work on the basis of the Constitution of Russia and federal legislation."

That is how the special service should work. Without politics and without the protection of the interests of anyone. There is only one interest that must be protected: these are the interests of Russia and the citizens of Russia.
Author:
99 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Baloo
    Baloo 27 December 2017 06: 30 New
    29
    That is how the special service should work. Without politics and without protecting the interests of anyone. There is only one interest that needs to be protected is the interests of Russia and Russian citizens.


    The wish is to be tougher for NPOs who are getting into politics and our internal affairs, and such as Navralny and his state-owned company with "foreign experts" in its foundation. The case of the "crying boy" from Urengoy should be brought to an end and he should be given an assessment. What kind of connections are there with our evil prancing neighbors?
    1. Chertt
      Chertt 27 December 2017 07: 04 New
      33
      Russians have more confidence in the FSB than in NPOs. and Bornikov is a more respected person than pro-Western "human rights defenders"
      1. Nick
        Nick 31 December 2017 15: 09 New
        0
        Quote: Chertt
        Bornikov is a more respected person than pro-Western "human rights defenders"

        Bortnikov, yes, we respect, and "human rights activists" are the fifth column, or rather, its part, the other part is in the government and around ... It is unlikely that it is respected by the Russians, and their foreign sponsors too ...
    2. Blombirus
      Blombirus 27 December 2017 12: 32 New
      11
      These human rights defenders (read, Russophobes) must be beaten with a crowbar not in numbers. On the spot!
  2. 210ox
    210ox 27 December 2017 06: 32 New
    27
    Once again the Chekists with the past holiday! hi And about the repressions ... Well, my grandfather refused to join the collective farm .. And ..? They shot him? They sent me away? No, I forced him to leave. I don’t know how he did with his passport. And nobody was repressed in the family. should we blame that power? Oh yes! Many famous rotten ... Queen, etc. ... According to economic articles ... What I want the current government. To reproach not childishly for the economy .. Yes, and for politics too ..
    1. ImPerts
      ImPerts 27 December 2017 07: 02 New
      +7
      Quote: 210ox
      I don’t know how he did with his passport.

      Maybe a fake? Or maybe they just drove us by the nose?
      1. Midshipman
        Midshipman 27 December 2017 07: 51 New
        +3
        Not a fake. Passports began to be issued in villages from the 60s.
        1. ImPerts
          ImPerts 27 December 2017 08: 23 New
          12
          If you enlarge the photo, you will see the date of issue - October 24 1940
        2. ImPerts
          ImPerts 27 December 2017 08: 34 New
          19
          As you know, peasants in the USSR were in the position of powerless slaves who did not have the right to free movement ...
          ... But just recently acquired (as collectors say - “raised it from the ground”) an original document - a passport of a citizen of the USSR, issued in the distant 1938 year ...
          ... What is especially curious, this passport was issued in exchange for the old one, that is, Pyotr Yevstafyevich was certified with 1935 of the year. Another interesting feature - the owner of this document was illiterate.
          I do not want to go into the reasons why many collective farmers did not use passports, but the fact is clear - if necessary, a passport could be obtained by contacting the passport office at the district department of the NKVD, even if the applicant is illiterate.
          http://asuprun.livejournal.com/1280.html
          1. Cxnumx
            Cxnumx 27 December 2017 12: 33 New
            +8
            Quote: ImPerts
            As you know, peasants in the USSR were in the position of powerless slaves who did not have the right to free movement ...

            if you are ironic, then at least put a smiley face ... because they will take this phrase at face value.
            https://felix-edmund.livejournal.com/651368.html
            1. ImPerts
              ImPerts 27 December 2017 12: 45 New
              +4
              Quote: K0
              if you are ironic, then at least put a smiley face ...

              If you follow the link, you will see the text from which the phrase was taken laughing
              1. Cxnumx
                Cxnumx 27 December 2017 12: 47 New
                +4
                Quote: ImPerts
                If you follow the link, you will see the text from which the phrase was taken

                here for blind-eyed people like me I have to put emoticons - I know for sure that there are many bully
                1. ImPerts
                  ImPerts 27 December 2017 17: 33 New
                  0
                  wink
                  I will try
                  drinks
    2. bistrov.
      bistrov. 27 December 2017 09: 13 New
      11
      Quote: 210ox
      . Well, my grandfather refused to join the collective farm .. And ..? Shot? Sent? Sent? No.

      I completely agree with you. In the village where I was born and lived until the age of 15, there were also several such people. One of them, nicknamed Gorbach, lived through several houses from me and died already in 1970. Nobody touched him, they did not apply any repressions to him when they began to pay pensions in the countryside, she was also appointed to him.

      About the passports. It was available upon request and a resident of the countryside. True, there was a short time, somewhere from 61 to 66, an unwritten order to restrict the issuance of passports, but it was formal and it was easily bypassed by anyone who needed it, or it could go on principle, as some did, and the authorities here they walked back and a passport was issued. So, for example, my elder brother did, went to the village council, they clipped him on the first day, but when he began to insist and threatened to write a complaint, all the necessary documents were immediately issued.
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 27 December 2017 11: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: 210ox
      And about the repressions ... Well, my grandfather refused to join the collective farm .. And ..? They shot him? They sent me away? No, I forced him to leave. I don’t know how he did with his passport. And nobody was repressed in the family.

      Mortality among the deported peasants FORTY TIMES was higher than the birth rate. Many who were sent to the camps died, many lost their health and did not create families. The same with hundreds of thousands of people executed.
      Therefore, you do not know their descendants — they were not allowed to leave them!
      Alexander writes
      But the number of convicts in Stalin's time did not differ from the number of convicts in other times.

      Unfortunately, it is not:
      Those. within one year, about 1,9 thousand people were shot per day — just listing their names and initials per day — would take more than one sheet of Pravda.
      PS Bortnikov indicated the total number of repressed for all crimes (counter-revolution, espionage and banditry) 4060000 people, indicated in the certificates, and those shot - only for co-revolutionary activity (and also shot for espionage and banditry).
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 27 December 2017 11: 49 New
        17
        Quote: Olgovich
        Mortality among the deported peasants FORTY TIMES was higher than the birth rate.

        Is it possible in more detail? The same information. that attached to your comment.
        Well, add here:
        "So, in the 1930s in the Soviet Union on average there were 583 prisoners on 100 000 people. In 1992-2002 years on 100 000 people in modern Russia on average there were 647 prisoners, and in the USA - 626. in view of the fact that in the 1930s in the Soviet Socialist Republic, according to eyewitnesses, most of the criminal criminals were behind bars, and in modern Russia, by all indications, on the contrary, the majority of criminals roam free, which, incidentally, confirms the statistics of crimes.
        In 1940, with a population of 193 million people in the USSR there were 6549 killings, and in 2005 in Russia with a population of 145 million people. kills are almost 5 times more - 30800 (this is not counting 17 thousand people who died in car accidents). "
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 27 December 2017 15: 23 New
          +3
          Quote: ImPerts
          Is it possible in more detail? The same information. that attached to your comment.

          Zemskov V. N. On the issue of the extent of repression in the USSR // Sociological studies. - 1995. - No. 9. - P. 118—127. Sent 2,5 million people. About 30-40% of the exiledchildren. Killed about 600 thousand, mainly in 1931-32, a lot of children.
          Quote: ImPerts
          "So, in the 1930s, there were an average of 583 prisoners per 100 people in the Soviet Socialist Republic.

          Peasants-special settlers were not included in this number, and there are millions of them: without trial, they seized all property and exiled.
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 28 December 2017 09: 27 New
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich
            Zemskov V. N

            Well, here you are Zemskov now, in your unprincipled ..... and he will.
            http://www.great-country.ru/articles/sssr/sov_gov
            ernor / stalin / 00133.html
            In 2014, the book “Stalin and the People: Why There Was No Rebellion” was published, in which Viktor Zemskov, probably anticipating his death, threw off the mask of political correctness and essentially left a testament to his readers:

            1) “Thus, based on our version of the total number of people repressed for political reasons, the proportion of those in the population living in 1918–1958 is 2,5% (about 10 million compared to over 400 million). This means that 97,5% of the population of the USSR was not subjected to political repression in any form. "I’ll clarify that the scientist considers a broad interpretation of the term“ repressed for political reasons ”, including deported, dispossessed, subjected to“ purges ”for social reasons and etc.

            2) “In the past almost a quarter century, the whole power of the propaganda machine has been directed at concealing this indisputable fact. Everything possible and impossible is being done in order to preserve the false idea introduced into the mass consciousness that the whole or almost all of the people were allegedly subjected to various repressions. The younger generation of our people has been nurtured on this “black myth” and the older generations have been pretty much propagandized in the appropriate spirit. ”(P.103)
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 28 December 2017 10: 05 New
              +1
              Quote: badens1111
              for political reasons specific gravity

              Russian people-not cattleto consider the specific gravity.
              Every human life is priceless, and 10 million is generally whole country and a terrible tragedy .. Although this figure is much larger.

              PS Where is Pantsyr, and, comrade banance? He was smarter than that ... yes
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 28 December 2017 10: 17 New
                +8
                Quote: Olgovich
                Russian people are not cattle to consider the specific gravity.

                Don’t count.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Every human life is priceless

                Is the life of a felon priceless?
                Is the life of a Vlasovite, a handsome man, a Bandera, a Basmach, a terrorist, priceless?
                It is only “priceless” for people like you, but for society these slops are subject to landfill.
                Quote: Olgovich
                and 10 million is a whole country and a terrible tragedy .. Although this figure is much larger.

                Solzhenitsinschina flooded? Yes, write already half a billion, you will.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 28 December 2017 10: 23 New
                  +1
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Don’t count.

                  It’s your prerogative to consider people as the specific weight fool
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Жизнь felonpriceless?

                  Forgotten yourself, your Zemskov, t badens: 10 million-POLITICAL
                  Quote: badens1111
                  It is only “priceless” for people like you, but for society these slops are subject to landfill.

                  You are not a society, who authorized you to speak on his behalf ?? belay Megalomania? fool
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Solzhenitsinschina flooded? Yes, write already half a billion, you will.

                  It hurts when they beat you, I understand ...
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 28 December 2017 13: 41 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    It hurts when they beat you, I understand ...

                    When I look at Amnuel, who sits with a face that reflects his entire unlucky life, starting from falling into the toilet bowl at birth, constant kicks from the nursery to the uni, I understand that this is ... you are just as miserable in your bullshit.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 29 December 2017 11: 37 New
                      0
                      Quote: badens1111
                      When I look at Amnuel, who sits with a face that reflects his entire unlucky life, starting from falling into the toilet bowl at birth, constant kicks from the nursery to the uni, I understand that this is ... you are just as miserable in your bullshit.

                      T. badenz, with your imagination games and bizarre images, to you to Napoleon. yes
                      My FACTS- You deny .... chatter lol
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 28 December 2017 10: 17 New
              +1
              Quote: badens1111
              Unlike you, DO NOT BE ashamed to tell the TRUTH.

              The facts of the wild lies of the authorities to poor relatives are given and, apart from you, are known to everyone.
              Quote: badens1111
              Great Leader of our people, Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin

              Article about what, my dear ?! fool lol What about you?
              However. and I know SUCH:

              The leader of the country, about you above the mountains
              Glory rises among the people
              You lit like the sun, space
              Well, we are now free.
              .
              Song of joy and work
              Wide distances will be announced;
              Your name is always with us
              Like a banner, comrade Stalin!
              .
              Leader of the nations, I glorify your mind
              Thy will that is stronger than steel.
              I have a lot of thoughts in my head
              About you, my beloved Stalin!
              .
              I look at the people, in my soul spring
              There is neither poverty nor sadness.
              The country blooms like a garden;
              In it, the gardener is Comrade Stalin.
              .
              We will always make a song for you
              Through your life all the people are rich.
              Live forever among us, our brother,
              Teacher, friend, our invaluable leader, Stalin!

              In AS-necessary! lol And you are weak ....
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 28 December 2017 10: 19 New
                +4
                Quote: Olgovich
                Facts of wild lies

                Yours? Well, you’ve already completely deceived here.
                Are you displeased by the UNCONDITIONAL spiritual AUTHORITY of the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, are you a Catholic, Protestant or some other sectoid?
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 28 December 2017 10: 42 New
                  +1
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Your? Well, you've already completely deceived yourself.

                  PERSONAL LOCATIONS - learn
                  Quote: badens1111
                  You are displeased by the UNCONDITIONAL spiritual AUTHORITY PRussian atriarch Orthodox Church, are you Catholic, Protestant or some other sectoid?

                  What relation does he have to the TOPIC of the article, the number of repressed? fool belay
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 28 December 2017 13: 41 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    PERSONAL PRONOUNS

                    Learn, illiterate. You have a lot to learn again.
      2. Spez
        Spez 27 December 2017 13: 10 New
        14
        The reference says 2 total convicted from the 944st to the 879th years. Of these, 21 38 were shot. And where did you get the shot 745 people / day? I got 220. Maybe I don't think so?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 27 December 2017 15: 34 New
          +3
          Quote: Spez
          Of these, 745 220 were shot. And where did you get the shot 1900 people / day? I got 120. Maybe I don't think so?

          In Pavlov’s certificate, 1937 thousand of those executed were listed separately 1938-681. In fact, executions took place from September 1937 to September 1938, i.e. year.
          Share.
          1. Spez
            Spez 27 December 2017 15: 40 New
            +2
            I did not see right away. It turns out that half of the convicts went on firing squad.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 27 December 2017 15: 57 New
              +3
              Quote: Spez
              It turns out that half of the convicts went on firing squad.

              This is not all: in 1954, in November, an order was issued by the Prosecutor's Office and other law enforcement agencies stating the following: many relatives of those shot since 1939 were issued certificates of .... sentencing them to 10 years without the right of correspondence. In 1954, the prosecutor's office and others ordered: to issue only close relatives, upon request, certificates that people died in the ... camp from illness!
              For example, gr. Minin is shot in 1937 (there is an act), but according to a certificate issued by his daughter, he died of "heart sclerosis" in 1941 Mr.
              Where was he taken into account - in the executed or the camps? request
              1. Spez
                Spez 27 December 2017 16: 02 New
                +6
                But this is a complete heresy. And this heresy appeared in the late nineties, you know how.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 27 December 2017 16: 09 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Spez
                  But this is a complete heresy. And this heresy appeared in the late nineties, you know how.

                  1, Scans of documents: https: //germanych.livejournal.com/1158
                  00.html. No one, in my opinion, has refuted. request
                  2. The response of the authorities to relatives “10 years without the right of correspondence” is well known. Someone returned after 10 years of those about whom they gave this?
                  1. Spez
                    Spez 27 December 2017 16: 12 New
                    +3
                    in the archives for all those sentenced to death in their affairs this particular punishment is indicated. Thus, the existence of the phrase “10 years without the right of correspondence” does not affect the statistics of those executed during the Stalinist repressions, because it was used only to communicate information to the relatives of the executed person and did not enter the archives. This practice of informing relatives of those shot of the formula “10 years without the right of correspondence” was legally enshrined on May 11, 1939 in the decree of the NKVD of the USSR N00515 “On the issuance of certificates of whereabouts of arrested and convicted persons”. In the autumn of 1945, the order was adjusted - the applicants were now told that their relatives had died in prison. On August 24.08.1955, 108, the chairman of the KGB under the Council of Ministers of the USSR issued Decree No. 10cc, which continued this practice. Relatives were given death certificates, in which the dates of death were indicated within XNUMX years from the date of arrest, and the causes of death were indicated fictitious.

                    Source: http://statehistory.ru/646/10-let-bez-prava-perep
                    iski /
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 28 December 2017 09: 36 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Spez
                      because it was used only to communicate information to the relatives of the executed person and did not get into archives

                      Official information could not get into the archives.
                      And if they hadn’t been “ashamed” (afraid) to tell people the truth then there would be no questions.
                      Another idin. Question, why were you afraid. And they were afraid, because they knew that lawlessness and crime had been created.
                      Quote: Spez
                      Relatives were given death certificates, in which the dates of death were indicated within 10 years from the date of arrest, and the causes of death were indicated fictitious.

                      This is normal?
                      For many years, a person simply disappeared from the family, they did not give her any information where he is, nor the so-called "sentence", no information about fate, NOTHING.
                      And dear people were loved then no less than today ....
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 28 December 2017 09: 42 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And if they had not been “ashamed” (afraid) to tell people the truth, then there would have been no questions.

                        Unlike you, DO NOT BE ashamed to tell the TRUTH.
                        Keep silent, Mr. liar, the authority of the Patriarch, which is much higher than all your fuss here and your dirty writing.

                        Source: felix-edmund.livejournal.com
                        Speech of the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Alexy before the requiem according to I.V. Stalin, said in the Patriarchal Cathedral ...

                        The Great Leader of our people, Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, was gone.

                        The great, moral, social power was abolished: the power in which our people felt their own power, which he guided in his creative works and enterprises, which he consoled for many years. There is no region where the deep gaze of the great Leader does not penetrate. People of science were amazed at his deep scientific knowledge in the most diverse fields, his brilliant scientific generalizations; the military - his military genius; people of all kinds of labor invariably received powerful support and valuable guidance from him. As a man of genius, in every business he discovered what was invisible and inaccessible to the ordinary mind.

                        About his intense cares and exploits during the Great Patriotic War, about his brilliant leadership of military operations, which gave us victory over a powerful enemy and in general over fascism; His multifaceted, immense daily work on managing, on managing state affairs was widely and convincingly discussed in the press, and especially at the last farewell today, on the day of his funeral, his closest co-workers. His name, as a champion of world peace, and his glorious deeds will live forever.

                        We, having gathered for a prayer for him, cannot pass by the silence of his always benevolent, compassionate attitude to our church needs. Not a single question that we addressed to him was rejected by him; he satisfied all our requests. And a lot of good and useful, thanks to its high authority, has been done for our Church by our Government.

                        The memory of him is unforgettable for us, and our Russian Orthodox Church, mourning his departure from us, escorts him to the last journey, “the path of all the earth”, with fervent prayer.
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 28 December 2017 09: 49 New
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            In fact, executions took place from September 1937 to September 1938, i.e. year.

            Sasha, they were shot in the 37-38s basically to the cause. More about Stoleshnikov "Anti-archipelago, or there will be no rehabilitation."
            But in the 20s there was a banal massacre of all those who disagree with the new government. hi
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 28 December 2017 10: 37 New
              +2
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Sasha, in the 37-38s they were shot mainly for the cause. More about Stoleshnikov "Anti-archipelago, or there will be no rehabilitation."

              Part, of course, yes: all Yehuds, Bergmanov, Apfelbaums with Rosenfelds, these deserved to the full, back in 1917. But this is a tiny part!
              And the rest are shepherds, watchmen, collective farmers, workers (see. Books of memory)? The operation was called "kulak", i.e. peasant.
              USSR Armed Forces determined repression lawlessness (so it was — what is such a “troika”?), the vast majority are rehabilitated, the Law of the Russian Federation on rehabilitation works and I agree with them. hi
              PS I prefer primary sources and monographs in order to draw up my own opinion; there are a lot of documents on Isthmat, in Rosarchive.
        2. Lock36
          Lock36 28 December 2017 09: 18 New
          +1
          Wrong think! Everyone knows that more than one and a half thousand million were repressed! One hundred thousand a day! Forget-not easy!
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 28 December 2017 09: 42 New
            +2
            Quote: Lock36
            Wrong think! Everyone knows that more than one and a half thousand million were repressed! One hundred thousand a day! Forget-not easy!

            One person or one and a half thousand million, what's the difference? Crime is, it is condemned by the state, it works Law of the Russian Federation "On Rehabilitation".
            Remembering the innocently killed Russian people is necessary and should be: this is the only thing we can do for them ....
            1. Lock36
              Lock36 28 December 2017 10: 25 New
              +3
              Quote: Olgovich
              One person or one and a half thousand million, what's the difference?

              Everything is fine with your head, is this writing? Is there a conscience?
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 28 December 2017 10: 46 New
                +1
                Quote: Lock36
                Quote: Olgovich
                One person or one and a half thousand million, what's the difference?

                Everything is fine with your head, is this writing? Is there a conscience?

                You definitely don’t have either one or the other, since you don’t understand that a crime against a million people consists of a million crimes.
                1. Lock36
                  Lock36 28 December 2017 13: 17 New
                  +1
                  But the big difference is one person or a billion! What must be in the soul and head to consider this equivalent?!?!?!
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 29 December 2017 11: 47 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Lock36
                    But the big difference is one person or a billion! What must be in the soul and head to consider this equivalent?!?!?!

                    EVERYONE has ONE life, the only one.
                    Those. You are the death of a billion You will sympathize, but the death of one person, no ?! belay fool
                  2. kush62
                    kush62 30 December 2017 18: 48 New
                    +1
                    Lock36 December 28, 2017 13:17 ↑
                    But the big difference is one person or a billion! What must be in the soul and head to consider this equivalent?!?!?!

                    And if this one is your close relative? Mother, father, brother or son?
      3. ARES623
        ARES623 27 December 2017 20: 50 New
        +3
        Quote: Olgovich
        and those who were shot, only for co-revolutionary activity (and for espionage and banditry, they were also shot).

        Not shot, sentenced to VMN. At the same time, it was not said how many of them were replaced by VMN for the term of MLS. In general, those who wish can read Zemsky's book on this topic. Everything is described in detail and in detail for the entire Stalin period. Then a lie like
        Quote: Olgovich
        Those. within one year, about 1,9 thousand people were shot

        will resolve itself ...
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 28 December 2017 09: 23 New
          +1
          Quote: ARES623
          Then a lie like
          Quote: Olgovich
          Those. within one year, about 1,9 thousand people were shot
          will resolve itself ...

          you "lie" try to refute. Other than chatter — in response to figures and facts — you have NOTHING.
          Not enough ....
          1. ARES623
            ARES623 28 December 2017 17: 41 New
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            you "lie" try to refute

            There was such a historian, Viktor Nikolayevich Zemskov. He was one of the most respected researcher of the scale of repressions of the era of I.V. Stalin. He is recognized among professional historians, referring to his research. Read. Maybe it will help ...
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 29 December 2017 11: 55 New
              0
              Quote: ARES623
              There was such a historian, Viktor Nikolayevich Zemskov. He was one of the most respected researcher of the scale of repressions of the era of I.V. Stalin. He is recognized among professional historians, referring to his research. Read. Maybe it will help ...

              I have given his figures here much earlier than your mention of Zemskov.
              Those. read and know.
              Essentially, you could not answer.
              Rt
              1. ARES623
                ARES623 29 December 2017 14: 48 New
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                I have given his figures here much earlier than your mention of Zemskov.

                This is "That is, about 1,9 thousand people a day were shot within one year." Have you also unearthed at Zemskov?
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 30 December 2017 12: 18 New
                  +1
                  Quote: ARES623
                  This is "That is, about 1,9 thousand people a day were shot within one year." Have you also unearthed at Zemskov?

                  COUNT.
  3. GLIMMERING
    GLIMMERING 27 December 2017 06: 56 New
    +8
    It's time to tackle the return of stolen money from offshore, the return of capital from America, and seriously engage in liberals in the government and in the localities. For the latter-they sell and betray Russia.
    1. Alf
      Alf 27 December 2017 22: 09 New
      0
      Quote: GLIMMERING
      It's time to tackle the return of stolen money from offshore, the return of capital from America, and seriously engage in liberals in the government and in the localities. For the latter-they sell and betray Russia.

      Dear colleague! Sorry if I offend you in my next words, but ...
      You and others like you are talking, We must deal with, we must investigate, we must change, we must change. WHO will do this? The president ? So he is flesh from the flesh of the system. Duma? I think it’s not worth mentioning once again, from WHOM it consists of, from representatives of WHICH class. How can they fight with themselves? All the voiced demands can be implemented only in one case — if the political system of the state is changed. And the thing is that this change cannot be made peacefully. The ruling class will never voluntarily change its position.
  4. lwxx
    lwxx 27 December 2017 07: 02 New
    10
    Here, many refer to archives, so many people have been exiled, but they forget to add how much the sabotage of acts of sabotage has decreased as a result of cleansing. Yes, there were excesses, but this is not hidden.
    1. Midshipman
      Midshipman 27 December 2017 08: 00 New
      12
      Stalin consistently fought the fifth column of Trotskyists. First, he gave the NKVD carte blanche to clean up the army, and then Beria's carte blanche to clean up the NKVD. If you multiply this by vital industrialization, and preparation for war, it turns out that enormous problems are solved with the same number of convicts as in other non-Stalin years. In America now, by the way, it sits more than ours under Stalin.
  5. ImPerts
    ImPerts 27 December 2017 07: 06 New
    10
    We don’t know much. Tales told us a long time)))
    1. igordok
      igordok 27 December 2017 08: 13 New
      +1
      Catholic Christmas?
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 27 December 2017 08: 29 New
        +3
        Quote: igordok
        Catholic Christmas?

        And why not?
        1. igordok
          igordok 27 December 2017 08: 31 New
          +2
          In 1911. in the old style, Christmas will be Orthodox. And here is the 1929 calendar. in a new or old style? Judging by the November 7, then a new one.
          1. ImPerts
            ImPerts 27 December 2017 12: 03 New
            0
            Here it is necessary to understand. I did not thoroughly understand this situation.
    2. Gardamir
      Gardamir 27 December 2017 09: 25 New
      +1
      Tales told us a long time)))
      here's another
    3. jjj
      jjj 27 December 2017 10: 57 New
      +3
      Quote: ImPerts
      We don’t know much. Tales told us a long time)))

      From the 1929 of the 1935 year, all holidays were canceled with the exception of May 1 and November 7. Even the New Year was canceled
  6. AlexS
    AlexS 27 December 2017 07: 55 New
    12
    Only liberalism believes that Russia has no traitors, they are dissidents ...
    1. midivan
      midivan 27 December 2017 09: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: AlexS
      Only liberalism believes that Russia has no traitors, they are dissidents ...

      How can an idol be called a traitor?
    2. Hoc vince
      Hoc vince 27 December 2017 10: 41 New
      0
      Well, following this logic, and Judas’s deed is quite normal ...
  7. Alone
    Alone 27 December 2017 08: 11 New
    +5
    But what about Solzhenitsyn and his 100 ml. executed !? He’s not just setting up monuments!
    1. BecmepH
      BecmepH 27 December 2017 10: 24 New
      0
      Quote: Alone
      But what about Solzhenitsyn and his 100 ml. executed !? He’s not just setting up monuments!

      Not just ...
    2. Hoc vince
      Hoc vince 27 December 2017 10: 47 New
      +5
      Solzhenitsyn shortly before his death, summing up his life, in a television interview said: “We fought with the Communists all our lives and thought it was necessary, but it turned out - we fought with our country all our lives ...”
      1. fighter angel
        fighter angel 27 December 2017 12: 20 New
        10
        He simply lied completely. I already did not know how to get out. In the West, he already in the 90s was useless for hell. He fulfilled his task for them - 30 pieces of silver received. Decided in the end to his "smear." To the Russians. The bastard and the creep this SOLZHENitsyn. All his "literary libel" breathe hatred for the Russian people.
    3. RUSS
      RUSS 27 December 2017 16: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: Alone
      But what about Solzhenitsyn and his 100 ml. executed !? He’s not just setting up monuments!

      No need to lie, Solzhenitsyn don’t talk about the 100 million executed.
  8. RUSS
    RUSS 27 December 2017 08: 16 New
    +3
    The figures voiced by Bortnikov did not include children of the repressed, but they are also victims, the so-called "children of the enemy of the people."
    They had a ban on admission to universities, for many jobs, etc.
    1. domokl
      27 December 2017 09: 15 New
      12
      Those. Children of today's convicts are also convicted? Bortnikov speaks about real numbers. In the same way it is possible to count those who could have been born from the executed ...
    2. midivan
      midivan 27 December 2017 09: 39 New
      14
      My grandmother finished 4 full classes and worked all her life on a collective farm, started as a child, drove bulls on arable land, was a steering wheel (assistant) of a combine harvester at her grandfather (at her husband's smile ), now she is 89, and has never expressed an insult to Stalin! I quote - the country was raised. And when we were told what they ate, our aunts and mom roared. And while she is alive, I just ask you not to remember the children who could not enter the institute and do good work, otherwise I will be ashamed to look into her eyes without being rude (at least) to you and the same human rights activists.
    3. johnik
      johnik 27 December 2017 10: 20 New
      +3
      Again, tales - Svanidze was not allowed to study and his dad ?!
    4. 34 region
      34 region 27 December 2017 12: 00 New
      +8
      RUSS, 08:16. EBN is the son of a repressed fist. How did his dad survive, EBN himself survived, got an education and still became a leader! Here's how EBN spite all anti-advisers did it ???
    5. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 31 December 2017 09: 30 New
      +6
      They had a ban on admission to universities, for many jobs, etc.

      Lies. My great-grandfather was repressed, dispossessed. Yes, according to my mother’s stories, I refused to go to the collective farm. His son graduated from the medical institute, fought, was awarded orders and medals. After the war, he worked as a doctor in Ukraine.
  9. Captain Nemo
    Captain Nemo 27 December 2017 09: 02 New
    +3
    Over 30 years, only 643 thousand people were shot and 700 thousand to camps. Nonsense, women still give birth. Not a word that these sentences were often imposed by non-judicial bodies in the person of the “triples”, precisely in the 30s. But under Beria, they “criticized” the BlackBerry. But what about the fact that my mother remembered her parents' fear for life about cars driving around Moscow, into which beautiful girls were pushed right on the street and taken away for entertainment in pennies? But what about the wives of prominent people who went through his bed under pain for their family? But what about the hundreds of thousands who, after captivity, for some reason did not pass the filtration and went to camps and fines? Read the statistics of the captured Red Army troops in the first half of the war. Are these millions of people traitors? The mere mention of the name of Beria is a crime. Why isn’t he rehabilitated then?
    1. Spez
      Spez 27 December 2017 09: 39 New
      14
      If you calculate that for thirty years, from the 24th to the 53rd years, Beria every day raped an average of two women, you get something about 22 thousand.

      Of the 1 soldiers who returned home from captivity, 836 were convicted in connection with the charge of cooperation with the enemy and were serving sentences in the Gulag system.

      From December 1941 to July 1944, 375 people of the "special contingent" passed through the NKVD special camps:
      1942 - 172
      1943 - 127
      January - July 1944 - 75 people.
      By composition:
      former soldiers of the Red Army who were in captivity or surrounded, - 328 365 people;
      police officers, elders and other accomplices of the occupation authorities - 25;
      civilians of military age who were in the territory occupied by the enemy - 21.
      For the same period:
      verified and transferred to the military commissariats - 233 people (887%),
      aimed at the formation of fifteen assault battalions - 12 (808%),
      transferred to permanent personnel of the defense industry - 20 (284%),
      11 658 people were arrested and convicted (3.1%),
      no data - 96731 people (25,7%).
      According to more recent data, 78-79% of those tested were returned to the army.

      PS I apologize for the inconvenient format of the post: I copied it from pedagogy.
    2. 34 region
      34 region 27 December 2017 12: 11 New
      13
      Captain Nemo, 09:02. This captain Nemo simply did not live in the 90s. Then it was fun! They could torture at home with a soldering iron or an iron, they could shoot right on the street, they could accidentally find a corpse in a forest belt, they could burn directly in a kiosk. And so, the saints of the 90s! Is everything civil today? Raider captures and shooting right on the street! The development of sex services today is of course from improving lives? Girls themselves ride for fun !? And what about Kushchevka !? Is everything okay? Was it under Beria? And what about people who do not fit into the market? Why is the population falling? Under Stalin's executions, for some reason it grew. Was there reincarnation?
      1. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 27 December 2017 22: 09 New
        0
        I, my dear man, was born in 1964. And my daughter was born in 1991. So I saw a lot. But I don’t remember where I wrote about the 90s? It seems about Yezhovshchina and Beria. Or are you in the spirit that in the 90s the heirs of the PL did not do a damn thing to pacify banditry in Russia?
    3. Laurus
      Laurus 27 December 2017 12: 40 New
      +7
      Liberal tales went again. Who are you "troika" shot, if they did not have the power to pronounce sentences over 5 years.
      Vile lies about L.P. I don’t even want to comment on Beria. A lie - it is a lie.
      1. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 27 December 2017 22: 19 New
        0
        On July 31, 1937, the head of the NKVD Nikolai Yezhov signed the order of the NKVD No. 00447? Concerning the operation to repress former fists, criminals and other anti-Soviet elements ", which defined the task of defeating the" anti-Soviet elements "and the composition of the" operational triples "for expedited consideration of cases of this kind. This the order was approved at the plenum of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks (b) The three usually included: as chairman, the local chief of the NKVD, members — the local prosecutor and first secretary of the regional, provincial, or republican committee of the All-Union Communist Party in the Soviet Union sets limits on? The first category? (shooting), and a "second category" (reference to the camp for a period of 8 to 10 years).

        The fundamentals of simplification of judicial procedures concerning only crimes related to terrorist acts and terrorist organizations against workers of the Soviet power were laid down by the Decree of the Central Executive Committee and the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR of December 1, 1934 and crimes related to sabotage and wrecking - the Decree of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR of September 14, 1937. The rulings began the tendency for the repressive authorities to apply simplified procedures for investigation and legal proceedings, which in the late period affected the replacement of the conduct of extrajudicial proceedings bubbled bodies such as the three NKVD. The simplified procedure of legal proceedings was contrary to the provisions of Section 111 of the Constitution of 1936, which provided, without exception, for an open trial and for the accused to be protected.

        1. The illegality of the NKVD triples

        The existence of the NKVD triples (NKVD triples) completely contradicted the norms of the 1936 Constitution of the USSR, according to Article 102 of which judicial functions in the USSR were carried out only by the court; The Constitution of the USSR of 1936 did not provide for any extrajudicial bodies. The corresponding criminal and criminal procedure code of the USSR had not previously been amended to allow the functioning of the NKVD troika (NKVD troika) instead of the judiciary. In addition, by issuing the NKVD Order No. 00447, which by its nature was essentially a law, and not a by-law, executive-administrative act, the NKVD went beyond the scope of its competence of the special services. According to its legislative status as the state special service of the USSR, the NKVD could only issue by-laws, executive and administrative acts, without going beyond the limits of the relevant laws. Violation of their own laws by the organs of Soviet power, in the then legal field of Soviet legislation, led to the unlawful existence and functioning of the NKVD triples, which characterizes the Soviet legality of the Stalin period.

        Conceptually, the NKVD troika, as well as the NKVD Special Meeting, had nothing to do with criminal proceedings: they were deprived of such basic principles of judicial procedure as the independence of the court, the adversarial process and the equality of parties before the court and the law. Even their functioning cannot be equated to the consideration of administrative cases arising from minor offenses, just as the consideration of administrative cases necessarily presupposes the openness of the process of consideration and adoption of the arguments of the accused party - functions that were absent during the consideration of cases by extrajudicial bodies.

        2. Investigation

        In carrying out the investigation, the NKVD triples were guided by a simplified procedure, not complying with most of the regulatory requirements of the then Criminal Procedure Code of the USSR, as a result of which innocent people often suffered undeserved punishment, most clearly manifested during the period of great terror. Conducting, as a rule, trial of criminal cases without the participation of the accused and his counsel, the Soviet government in the person of the NKVD triples violated the requirements of Article 111 of the Stalinist constitution, the norms of which required, without exception, an open trial in court with the right to defense. In general, the task of the NKVD troika often came down to approving sentences for citizens who had actually been issued by decisions of state and party bodies, similar to the case with the repressions of criminals and other anti-Soviet elements, respectively, of the NKVD order 00447

        An official NKVD directive on the use of physical impact methods during interrogations has not yet been found in the archives. However, it is likely that the verdict-permission was announced by M. Yezhov at a meeting of senior officers of the NKVD on July 16–20, 1937. An analysis of archival and investigative cases suggests that the mass beatings of the defendants began in late July – early August 1937 [4]
        1. megavolt823
          megavolt823 29 December 2017 11: 22 New
          +3
          Dear! I still can’t understand people like you. what exactly do you want to say? what were the dashing times? everyone knows that. 1917 to 1949 is a complete disaster. but why do not you want to say that Western countries made decisions that complicated the life of the people of the USSR? and these decisions were not few. prohibition of settlement. only grain and cultural values. did not have ? and there were no consequences for these decisions? There were difficulties in the USA. not hunger like ours, but it was severely impossible. and there were many Communists in America, but then there was no friend at all. mental hospitals and dungeons worked there no less than in the USSR. judging by the effectiveness. 80% of convicts had criminal articles. and for the breakdown of the machine they got drunk political. and they bought a machine for grain. and there was famine in the country. it was so fun. history is a chain of events and consequences. and pull out one fact and wave it, there is propaganda and populism. about tens of millions of people executed. WE DO NOT CHINA. stop raving. hi
  10. Tyulen
    Tyulen 27 December 2017 09: 10 New
    13
    "And behind the detachments there were other detachments that blocked the path to the retreat of the detachment, which also was blocked off by the detachment ..."
    Solzhenitsyn.zhpg
  11. Gardamir
    Gardamir 27 December 2017 09: 30 New
    +6
    Come on, left-handed defenders, with them everything is clear the enemies of the country. But here are the officials supporting these. If the president himself, constantly awards these enemies of the country. Recent awarding by Alekseeva for her Russophobic activities.
    1. megavolt823
      megavolt823 29 December 2017 11: 32 New
      0
      I also hope that these are games of the Kremlin and Lubyanka. who flies whom. it makes no sense to make a martyr out of filth, but God forgive me, a patient with nymphomania. everyone sees. not everyone knows at whose expense. but guess. that's better . hi
  12. Dormidont
    Dormidont 27 December 2017 10: 23 New
    +1
    Just in no case do not publish the list of signatories under a letter against the director of the FSB with accusations of rehabilitating Stalinism
    1. jjj
      jjj 27 December 2017 11: 02 New
      +4
      You are talking about a letter from great scientists to the director. And later another letter appeared, where academics complain that in conditions when they do not manage the money themselves, it is impossible to do science. We quickly forgot about the scarabs. Quickly set to work on the epistolary genre. Also have not played enough in big politics
      1. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 27 December 2017 22: 25 New
        0
        Do you see yourself on a tower with a machine gun guarding scoundrel scientists? Tell me, what scientific discoveries were made in sharagami? Not new weapons, but scientific discoveries. Only about the atomic bomb is not necessary. I got the first Stalin Prize (out of two) for it, so I know the truth somehow better than you
  13. Altona
    Altona 27 December 2017 11: 48 New
    +6
    Quote: Olgovich
    Mortality among the deported peasants FORTY TIMES was higher than the birth rate. Many who were sent to the camps died, many lost their health and did not create families.

    ------------------------------
    Was it better with the king-priest? Apparently the tsar father left Lenin and Stalin a prosperous country, and the sworn Bolsheviks took advantage of it? It was a great mortality even under the Soviet regime, my grandfather had 2 children died before he was one year old. There was no infrastructure. This is probably Trayasku Romania Mare, and we have 1 person for 20-30 sq. Km. Under the tsar, the same nonsense was, Stolypin migrants also died in bundles in Siberia. And you have only executions of 100500 figilliard people. It was such a time. The Soviet government did not think at all that it would last so long, and you want almost communism from the couch right away without getting down. In the West, Zhezh live, "work like Protestants." They plunder as Catholics, but do not work as Protestants. And you have all the "executions, executions, Siberia, Magadan."
  14. Sergey824
    Sergey824 27 December 2017 15: 36 New
    +1
    And who will explain why in Russia the countdown for the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs comes from October 1917? For the USSR it is clear. What before were there no such services? Why is there a class approach left?
    1. domokl
      27 December 2017 17: 24 New
      0
      Read the source. Bortnikov in the article answered. Thats what is written is only 10% of the interview. There is just a direct answer to your question.
  15. Sars
    Sars 27 December 2017 17: 27 New
    0
    Well done comrade Bortnikov!
    It remains for little to name the nationality of the Bolsheviks, Trotskyists, saboteurs, saboteurs, liberals, corrupt officials and other Sobchakov-Gozman brothers.
  16. Sotskiy
    Sotskiy 27 December 2017 20: 43 New
    +1
    "Now the FSB of Russia is free from political influence and does not serve any party or group interests. Builds its work on the basis of the Constitution of Russia and federal legislation".

    Aleksandr Vasilievich slooed)!
    Something is not visible of the mass detentions of former and current "party members" for exported trillions and undermining the country's economy. Ali is still there on top all the same tear, honestly sinless?)
    Or maybe now not untouchable parties, but family clans? About this in wide circles, Aleksandr Vasilyevich is unlikely to tell in the near future.
    Happy holiday, all Chekists!
  17. gray
    gray 27 December 2017 21: 26 New
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    This is evidenced by archival materials. All other figures are controversial. "

    Quote: Olgovich
    Quote: Spez
    It turns out that half of the convicts went on firing squad.

    This is not all: in 1954, in November, an order was issued by the Prosecutor's Office and other law enforcement agencies stating the following: many relatives of those shot since 1939 were issued certificates of .... sentencing them to 10 years without the right of correspondence. In 1954, the prosecutor's office and others ordered: to issue only close relatives, upon request, certificates that people died in the ... camp from illness!
    For example, gr. Minin is shot in 1937 (there is an act), but according to a certificate issued by his daughter, he died of "heart sclerosis" in 1941 Mr.
    Where was he taken into account - in the executed or the camps? request

    Hello. You didn’t see the most important thing: “Archival materials speak about this. All other figures are debatable.” These are the words of the original source. Who he is and who you are. So you can question everything and not only our history. Https: // www. youtube.com/watch?v=Iscl6MOJL
    a0
    1. kush62
      kush62 30 December 2017 18: 58 New
      +1
      This "scientist and philosopher" for 500 euros will run to support bulk laughing
  18. German Titov
    German Titov 27 December 2017 21: 55 New
    0
    Director of the FSB, "the cam is stricter than the headmaster at school." "Human rights activists" in Russia have not "seen." I do not like it in Russia- "go to / on ...". They got used to the unwashed .... coming into the ranks of Kalashnikov assault rifles. All "cryoprotection" is fed by the money of the "colleagues."
  19. tank64rus
    tank64rus 30 December 2017 19: 29 New
    +1
    Nikita, in one of the appendices to his "secret" report to the 20th congress on the cult of personality, laid a time bomb, and this app really was secret. Indeed, in it Khrushchev scored the dream of that nomenclature - the state security bodies were forbidden to develop them and even family members. After that, the USSR was doomed.
  20. misti1973
    misti1973 31 December 2017 21: 55 New
    0
    How trolls got excited here! That's how much I communicate with people, both with robots and with commerce, all adhere to the opposite opinion! And then, no matter how you go, so scream: tyrants, hurray!