Military Review

Stalingrad mission of Dr. Roiber

245



On the night of Christmas 1942, soldiers of the 30th, exhausted by hunger and 16 degrees below zero, tank divisions of the 11th army corps of the 6th army of Paulus reached into the dugout of Lieutenant Kurt Roiber. Before their eyes appeared an unusual image, initially perceived as a mystical vision. And someone decided that these were hallucinations ...

"Over the visible traces of the dead, starved, frozen German soldiers will never be a cross, a gravestone will not be hoisted." These lines about the crushing final of the Battle of Stalingrad for the invaders were later written by the German Field Marshal Erich von Manstein. According to him, only the memory of their inexpressible sufferings and death remained. But about the one who is largely to blame for this, Manstein prefers not to talk ...

That was the end for one of the best in the Wehrmacht 6 army, commanded by Friedrich Paulus. The battle of Stalingrad, unprecedented in scale, bitterness, and military and political consequences, ended on February 9, 2, with the complete victory of the Soviet troops.

Repentance before capitulation

Today, after three quarters of a century, bitterness and irreconcilability are gone, time smooths the pain of loss. Moreover, among the representatives of the older generation who fought on the Eastern Front and were captured by the Red Army, I met many who sympathize with our country and towards the Russian people. How many Germans have merciful Russian women, who themselves then starved, gave a piece of bread or a potato! The former soldiers of 6-th Paulus who passed through captivity — those who lived to this day — often recalled this.

And their other story - about 1942 of the year experienced at Christmas - was initially perceived as a legend. There, in the "Stalingrad boiler", in the trenches and dugouts covered in snow, the icon of the Mother of God appeared to the eyes of the soldiers and officers. Exhausted by hunger, disease and frost, gripped by a sense of doom, people at first perceived it as a mystical vision ...

But the icon really was. At the request of his wounded and weakened “camden”, she was created by military doctor Kurt Reuber.

At Stalingrad, Lieutenant Royber was part of the 16 Tank Division of the 11 Army Corps of the 6 Army. From 15 in September of 1942 to February of 2 in February of 1943, the division was commanded by Major General Gunther Angern. The compound has been on the Soviet-German front since June 1941. 23 August 1942, the 16 Division in 16.00 broke through to the Volga north of Stalingrad.

In addition to the work of the senior doctor of the infirmary, Roiber had another thing that he considered morally important: the duties of the pastor. In his prayers, it was thought that mankind would learn to distinguish between good and evil. Seeing the hardships and sufferings of the local population, he, as a doctor, helped the Soviet prisoners of war, the inhabitants of the destroyed, but unbroken city. Is it an accident? The answer to this question should be sought in Rober’s pre-war biography.

Kurt was born 26 March 1906, in the German city of Kassel, in a poor and very pious family of farmers. Education received in the spirit of peasant traditions and religious values. A year before the call in the Wehrmacht, in 1938-m Roiber defended his doctoral thesis on the topic “The ethics of the doctor class”. He was an intellectual, a well-educated person: a doctor, an artist, a theologian. In the recent past - pastor from the village of Vihmannshausen (Hessen). Father of three children.

At the front, Dr. Roiber tried to understand the Russian people. “I constantly look into their faces,” the medic shared his feelings in letters to his relatives. - Russian man in everything is a mystery to me. Often you find yourself in front of the Slavic soul, like an impenetrable wall of fog. And you never know what you will see when it opens: a soft warm light or even greater darkness. ” But over time, kindly, humanly talking to civilians, this light in their eyes, he discovered for himself more often. As a priest, Kurt Roiber perceived the soul of the prayers of women and old people.

But by the end of 1942, his countrymen had to pray for salvation. The ring around the 6 Army was inexorably compressed. Tank formations under the command of Colonel-General Hermann Goth tried to unlock the surrounded Paulus group. However, in the course of the Kotelnikovo and Middle Don operations conducted by the Soviet troops, they were not only stopped, but also far back. 23 December 1942, on the eve of the Catholic Christmas Eve, hope for outside help has collapsed ...

In order to somehow support the wounded and sick soldiers, Kurt Roiber, at their request, drew the Mother of God with little Jesus on the back of a Russian geographical map: Virgin Mary holds a sleeping baby in her arms, gently pressing him to her body to warm him. Along the perimeter of the charcoal-painted icon, 95 in size on 115 centimeters, is the inscription: “Light, life, love. Christmas in the "boiler". Fortress Stalingrad, 1942 ". Later, the icon Reiber came to be called the "Stalingrad Madonna" (Madonna von Stalingrad).

The evening before Christmas, Dr. Roiber attached the icon to the wall in his dugout. The soldiers quietly sang two Christmas songs. The battalion commander Wilhelm Grossse (Wilchelm Grosse) congratulated his subordinates, and Roiber removed the fabric from the icon. The soldiers saw a candlelit drawing of a doctor. Here is how he himself responded to their reaction: “They stopped as if dug in reverential silence, struck by a picture hanging on a clay wall, under which there was a fire on a log driven into an earthen wall. The whole Christmas festival was impressed by the drawing and the words framing it: light, life, love. ”

The dugout with the “Madonna” became a place of pilgrimage for German soldiers. And then the doctor and priest Roiber began to go around the other frozen soldier’s shelters with the icon, in order to encourage them before Christmas. After all, this day reminded them of the house, of loved ones. Soldiers prepared for the holiday some of the scarce products that still remained. And with the words "for all that we love" raised champagne glasses. The bottle opened at Christmas was miraculously preserved by the battalion commander.

Unusual package for Frau Marta
It would seem that later tens of thousands of captured German soldiers of Paulus’s army were no longer icons of Roiber. Only in 1956, the last of them returned to the post-war Fatherland. But all these years they remembered the icon ...

And most importantly - the Stalingrad Madonna itself has been preserved. The icon managed to be taken out of the "boiler" with Commander Reiber Wilhelm Grosse, who was seriously wounded. He was evacuated last board. 15 January 1943, the Soviet units broke through to the main airfield of Paulus, surrounded by 6 Army Nursery, which was covered from the air by the fighters of the Udet JG3 air regiment. And on January 21, the Germans had to leave Gumrak, where the last landing strip was located, capable of receiving large aircraft.

In Germany, Wilhelm Grosse sent Kurt Reiber's family a package with his sketches. “In one of the drawings is your father. This is for the mother, ”Grosse wrote in a note. “And Madonna, written in fortifications, is for you all.” So Martha Reuber-Iske (Martha Reuber-Iske), wife of Kurt, became the owner of 150 drawings of "people of the East", made by her husband. Previously, most of them were brought home by the head of the family when he came on vacation. Now Frau Martha found the original of the Stalingrad Madonna.

As for the 16-th tank division, in which Dr. Roiber served, it was surrounded by the rest of the 6-th army and in January 1943 was destroyed. Major General Gunter Angren committed suicide. This happened on February 2 - on the day of the end of the Battle of Stalingrad. A Wehrmacht lieutenant Kurt Roiber was in Soviet captivity. He was sent to the NKVD camp No. 97 in the Elabugi area. This is an old town in Tatarstan, surrounded by forests on the right bank of the Kama, 215 kilometers east of Kazan. Roiber got there, much weakened, with health undermined by hunger and frost. He suffered from typhus and suffered from chronic inflammation of the middle ear. There, under Elabuga 20 January 1944, Kurt Roiber died. He was 38 years old. Preserved his photograph and self-portrait.

After the war, Roiber’s drawings and letters were published and became widely known in Germany. And his “Stalingrad Madonna” became a symbol of repentance, forgiveness and hope. After all, if the proposal of the Soviet command to surrender was surrounded by Paulus’s 6 army, it was possible to save the lives of tens of thousands of German soldiers. But Hitler did not allow even the thought of surrender.

And during the Cold War, the icon of Roiber became the symbol of peace in the West.

In 1983, the relatives of the doctor handed over an icon of the Berlin church to the commemoration of Kaiser Wilhelm-Gedachtniskirche Berlin. The Stalingrad Madonna was recognized as canonical. It was consecrated by the hierarchs of three European cities: Archbishop Volsky and Saratov Pimen and church representatives of cities that survived during World War II massive bombardments: English Coventry (sister of Volgograd) and German Berlin. In the city-hero on the Volga, in one of the local temples there is a copy of the icon of Roiber. The same was presented by the German side to the Anglican Cathedral in Coventry.

Volgograd artist Vladislav Koval was so impressed history “Stalingrad Madonna”, which dedicated her picture to her. It depicts four bowed, haggard German soldiers in a trench. Two in helmets, two others wrapped with scarves. Bowed over Jesus, the Virgin Mary is outlined by a kind of mystical circle that exudes unspeakable light. This is the light of Life, Hope and Peace ...
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https://vpk-news.ru/articles/40594
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 31 December 2017 06: 51
    46
    I was really touched ... What the hell did all these "pastors and artists" need here. There can be no forgiveness! Especially in light of recent events.
    1. free
      free 31 December 2017 09: 34
      24
      Quote: 210ox
      I was really touched ... What the hell did all these "pastors and artists" need here. There can be no forgiveness! Especially in light of recent events.

      I agree completely, they got it fully and deservedly! Dog dog death!
      1. Proxima
        Proxima 31 December 2017 13: 06
        24
        Quote: free
        I agree completely, they got it fully and deservedly! Dog dog death!

        Comparing these nonhumans with such beautiful animals is an obvious compliment for them.
        1. free
          free 31 December 2017 18: 04
          10
          Quote: Proxima
          Quote: free
          I agree completely, they got it fully and deservedly! Dog dog death!

          Comparing these nonhumans with such beautiful animals is an obvious compliment for them.

          Perhaps you're right, I somehow did not think about it! wink
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 2 January 2018 10: 49
            +1
            On earth there are no such creatures with whom you can "compare" it .... although no matter how sad it is - a person ... only a person is capable of it ...
      2. Serg koma
        Serg koma 1 January 2018 17: 53
        +3
        Quote: free
        I agree completely, they received with full and deserved!

        And HERE they are not THERE drinks
        Award "Winter Battle in the East 1941/42" "ice cream meat"(German soldiers very quickly, with evil sarcasm, christened this medal "Frozen meat" (Gefrierfleischorden) due to the large number of frostbite deliveries.)

        THEY received a "higher" award - Crosses (wooden), sorry not enough.
        (The medal “Winter Battle in the East 1941/42” was awarded posthumously and passed on to the relatives of the deceased.)
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 31 December 2017 10: 35
      30
      Quote: 210ox
      I was really touched.

      The purpose of the article is incomprehensible: to tell that there were also people-unhappy and suffering there? So that we penetrate and sympathize? request
      People stayed at the border, but animals came to us. Who remembered that they were people only when they were pressed.
      1. avt
        avt 31 December 2017 10: 55
        17
        Quote: Olgovich
        The purpose of the article is incomprehensible: to tell that there were also people-unhappy and suffering there? So that we penetrate and sympathize?

        And they understood the essence of their ... ,, Asian people! ”Well, they repented of the killing of people. In short, it’s time to convict Stalin of an Austrian landscape painter Adolf AloIizovich to suicide by an international court. By the way! A certain ,, guru" of perestroika is Tsypko (worker The Central Committee of the CPSU during it) at the transfer of Solovyov did say at all - until 1943 Hitler was quite a politician ..... sane, recognizing the greatness of the Russian people! This is the sweat-o-o-o-oh his Stalin drove to insanity. Judging by the date announced by Tsypko - Stalingrad, he finished it.
        1. Monster_Fat
          Monster_Fat 31 December 2017 11: 33
          23
          "Boy Kolya now complains that he is constantly subjected to pressure and violence from classmates who did not understand his exalted feelings for German soldiers who died in Russia during WWII. Parents are now forced to transfer Kolya to home schooling and blame everyone the population of the city where Kolya lives is xenophobic. Human rights activists have taken the situation with Kolya in pencil and will complain to the ECHR about the inaction of the Russian authorities who allowed the media to be inflated and reported in the wrong way ... As the “human rights activists” indicate, the case with Kolya shows that Russia is clearly not ready to be an equal member of the common “European home”, not ready and not willing to perceive “universal human values” as fundamental, not the desire of the Russian leadership to deal with the growing manifestations of hatred and xenophobia and even them The case of Kolya once again characterizes Russia as a misanthropic, chauvinistic state. yours, incapable of any kind of understanding of the profound changes in the field of humanism that are taking place throughout civilized humanity .... "

          According to the materials of the German (and not only) print ... wink
          1. Moskovit
            Moskovit 31 December 2017 12: 09
            27
            Let Russia continue to be a hateful and chauvinistic state! laughing
            All with NG! Let Santa Claus come to Kolya with PPS and explain everything))
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 2 January 2018 10: 53
              +6
              Quote: Moskovit
              Let Santa Claus come to Kolya with PPS and explain everything))

              Better let a ticket to Auschwitz early forties give ....
          2. avva2012
            avva2012 31 December 2017 15: 53
            11
            "...... once again characterizes Russia as a hateful, chauvinistic state, incapable of any understanding of the profound changes in the field of humanism that are taking place throughout civilized humanity ...."
            In the civilian zone, peasants are required to hand over their harvest; otherwise, police units come to villages, clean everything up and burn together with the houses of those who are trying to resist. This is called "tax collection."
            In the military zone, German soldiers come to the village, take away food and animals, and shoot the resistance. This is called “requisition."
            The difference between tax collection and requisition is only at the addressee; essence is one. “The population was crying and begging, and women and children rushed at the feet of the soldiers,” recalling one of these actions, Lance Corporal Arno Schwager. - The soldiers beat them with butts, stamped their feet. I myself saw in the village of Volochanka how a soldier beat a woman for so long until she lost consciousness. Then he, no longer paying attention to her, took the last cow, although there were six children left here who were doomed to starvation. ”
            True, in the civilian zone, where tax collection is put on a regular basis, the defaulter cannot hide: the punishment will certainly overtake the guilty. “In 1943, I was a policeman,” said V.I. Stepanov. - I was called to the German commandant’s office and asked who is the malicious tax evader ... There were 15 people, among whom were women. After which the Germans shot all 15 people. ”
        2. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 1 January 2018 21: 53
          +6
          Yes, we are Asians, we do not genocide peoples, we do not destroy people in concentration camps, we do not compare cities with land, we do not drop nuclear bombs on defenseless cities, we do not like sexual minorities, etc. Let them repent that they are not like us! Two hundred years, continuously, then maybe simple.
    3. albert
      albert 31 December 2017 14: 29
      +9
      The author of the article is not from Urengoy by chance? Something familiar song! am
  2. midshipman
    midshipman 31 December 2017 07: 06
    29
    I do not understand this article. More interesting seems to be information that a metronome was installed on the front line with the fixation of the death of each fascist at the 7th second. Through the loudspeakers this information was broadcast to the fascists. After surrender, an unsent letter to his wife in Berlin was found in the pocket of one fascist officer. He wrote: "The Russians are meaner than chain dogs, they won’t let us out of here alive. Damn Hitler, why did he send us here." After the capture of Berlin in May 1945, this letter was transmitted to the address. I have the honor.
    1. verner1967
      verner1967 31 December 2017 09: 43
      +9
      Quote: midshipman
      I do not understand this article.

      Quote: midshipman
      There can be no forgiveness!

      and the article is not about forgiveness or reconciliation; it is about enlightenment. Enlightenment came to these when they fully experienced everything that they brought to our land, and even then not to everyone, someone had already seen his sight in captivity, and someone died with faith in Hitler and Nazism, well, there and they are dear. Soviet people also lived with faith in communism and, thank God, insight came without such sacrifices.
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 31 December 2017 11: 22
        21
        verner1967, you will once again recall both socialism and faith in communism. What we do not store, lost crying.
        1. verner1967
          verner1967 31 December 2017 11: 33
          +4
          Quote: sabakina
          You will recall more than once socialism and faith in communism

          Of course, I always remember them, gritting my teeth and clenching my fists. So now I remember reading the biographies of Archbishop Luke.
          1. Captain Nemo
            Captain Nemo 1 January 2018 10: 04
            +2
            Alas, not many can understand your sarcasm, since the life and deeds of Valentin Feliksovich Voyno-Yasenetsky to a huge number of people remain unknown until now.
            1. verner1967
              verner1967 1 January 2018 11: 20
              +2
              Quote: Captain Nemo
              the life and deeds of Valentin Feliksovich Voyno-Yasenetsky to a huge number of people remain unknown until now.

              and this is a pity
            2. badens1111
              badens1111 2 January 2018 18: 23
              +4
              Quote: Captain Nemo
              since the life and deeds of Valentin Feliksovich Voino-Yasenetsky to a huge number of people remain unknown until now.

              You don’t know, or it seems to you that you supposedly knew that you should definitely have legs to KNOW that this person always served the Motherland without ever betraying it, unlike some.
              At the beginning of World War II, he sent a telegram to Mikhail Kalinin, Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR: “I, Bishop Luka, Professor Voino-Yasenetsky ... being a specialist in purulent surgery, I can help soldiers in front or rear conditions where I will be entrusted. I ask to interrupt my link and send it to the hospital. At the end of the war he was ready to return to exile. Bishop Luke. "
              Statements by St. Luke:

              “Stalin saved Russia. He showed what Russia means to the rest of the world. And therefore, as an Orthodox Christian and Russian patriot, I bow low to Comrade Stalin. "

              On communism, the Soviet state and its achievements, 1939:

              “I have always been a progressive, very far from not only the Black Hundreds and monarchism, but also from conservatism; I am especially negative towards fascism. The pure ideas of communism and socialism, close to the Gospel doctrine, were always kindred and dear to me; but I, as a Christian, never shared the methods of revolutionary action, and the revolution terrified me of the cruelty of these methods. However, I have long been reconciled with her, and her tremendous achievements are very dear to me; this is especially true of the tremendous upsurge of science and healthcare, the peaceful foreign policy of the Soviet government and the power of the Red Army, the guardian of the world. Of all the systems of government, the Soviet system, without any doubt, I consider the most perfect and fair. The forms of the political system of the USA, France, England, Switzerland, I consider the most satisfactory of the bourgeois systems. I can only recognize myself as a counter-revolutionary to the extent that it follows from the fact of the commandment of the Gospel, but I have never been an active counter-revolutionary ... "http://www.ecogazeta.ru/archives/10209
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 2 January 2018 19: 12
                +1
                Quote: badens1111
                I have never been an active counter-revolutionary ...

                and nevertheless suffered from commies
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 2 January 2018 19: 31
                  +4
                  Quote: verner1967
                  nevertheless suffered from commies

                  Unlike you and your kind, this person accepted and understood what the country in which he lived was. You and your kind, split the country, betrayed and sold, so what kind of attitude and even more so what kind of tears are you pouring over the Hierarch Luke?
                  1. midshipman
                    midshipman 2 January 2018 19: 46
                    +5
                    I can add. St. Luke was awarded the rank of lieutenant general on the medical line. He cured thousands of Red Army soldiers and commanders in hospitals. This should be known to the patriots of our country. I know about this feat from eyewitnesses. I have the honor.
                    1. Captain Nemo
                      Captain Nemo 4 January 2018 17: 27
                      +1
                      About "generality" - a rush of pure water. About dedicated work in hospitals - the truth
                  2. verner1967
                    verner1967 2 January 2018 22: 36
                    +1
                    Quote: badens1111
                    Unlike you and others like you, this person has accepted and understood what is the country in which he lived.

                    that’s exactly what a country, not a state of atheists, but you don’t understand this
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 05: 30
                      +5
                      that’s exactly what a country is, not a state of atheists, but you don’t understand this.
                      Who doesn’t understand ??? "The German officer clearly understood the mood of the population. Let the instructions issued by Berlin say that the godless Soviet government is alien to the religious Russians {650} - those who serve in the eastern territories know the situation much better than emigrants who fled from Russia long ago. Religious feeling is not a hindrance to Soviet patriotism; guerrillas celebrate Easter, and village priests inspire people to fulfill their civic duty just as well as commissars. "
                      It’s impossible for the minions to understand what kind of state the USSR was.
                      "Then a rally took place.
                      It was opened by priest Mikhail Gribinka. I recorded some phrases from his speech.
                      - It is gratifying and joyful for the soul to look at the fighting affairs of the people's avengers. Not a German is looking for a partisan, but a partisan - a German. You are the Soviet government for us. You are an Orthodox army for us. You are Russia for us. You are our defenders, you are our best children. Glory to you, heroes of the motherland, glory to your commanders, glory to the father of our people - Stalin. Please accept our earthly bow for not giving us a homeland for reproach, for rescue us from slavery soon ... "
              2. Captain Nemo
                Captain Nemo 4 January 2018 17: 19
                +1
                “At the interrogation, the Chekist asked me about my political views and my attitude to the Soviet government. Hearing that I was always a democrat, he posed the question with an edge: “So who are you - friend or enemy of ours?” I replied: “Both friend and enemy. If I were not a Christian, I would probably become a communist. But you led the persecution of Christianity, and therefore, of course, I am not your friend. "
                1. verner1967
                  verner1967 4 January 2018 19: 41
                  0
                  Quote: Captain Nemo
                  I replied: “Both friend and foe. If I were not a Christian, I would probably become a communist. But you led the persecution of Christianity, and therefore, of course, I am not your friend. "

                  then again lied badens1111
              3. Captain Nemo
                Captain Nemo 4 January 2018 17: 21
                +1
                “With regard to political commitment, I am still a supporter of the Cadet party ... I have been and remain a supporter of the bourgeois form of government that exists in France, the USA, England ... I am an ideological and implacable enemy of the Soviet regime. This hostile attitude has developed after the October Revolution, it remains to this day ... because I did not approve of its bloody methods of violence against the bourgeoisie, and later, during the period of collectivization, it was especially painful for me to see the dispossession of the kulaks.
                ... The Bolsheviks are enemies of our Orthodox Church, destroying churches and persecuting religion, my enemies, as one of the active leaders of the church, the bishop. "
                1. Pancir026
                  Pancir026 4 January 2018 20: 14
                  +2
                  Quote: Captain Nemo
                  The Bolsheviks are enemies of our Orthodox Church, destroying churches and persecuting religion, my enemies, as one of the active leaders of the church, the bishop. "

                  The source of your trash, where?
                  But this is true.
                  Pravda January 27, 1946:
                  “Glory to the Laureates of the Stalin Prizes - the forefront of the Soviet people's intelligentsia
                  DECISION OF THE COUNCIL OF PEOPLE'S COMMISSARS OF THE USSR
                  On the awarding of Stalin Prizes for outstanding work in the field of science for 1943-1944.
                  First degree award of 200 rubles:
                  1. To Voino-Yasenetsky Valentin Feliksovich - professor, consultant-surgeon of evacuation hospitals of the Tambov Regional Health Department. For the scientific development of new surgical methods for the treatment of purulent diseases and wounds, set out in scientific papers: "Essays on Purulent Surgery", completed in 1943, "Late resections for infected gunshot wounds of joints", published in 1944 ...
                  Chairman
                  Council of People's Commissars of the USSR
                  J. Stalin
                  Moscow Kremlin. January 26, 1946 "

                  As soon as the Decree of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR on the awarding of Stalin Prizes was published, the archbishop sent I.V. To Stalin, a telegram of the following content:
                  "Moscow. Generalissimo I.V. To Stalin

                  I ask you, esteemed Joseph Vissarionovich, to accept from me 130 rubles, part of my prize of your glorious name, to help orphans, victims of fascist monsters.
                  Tambov Archbishop Luke (Voyno-Yasenetsky),
                  professor of surgery. "
                  It is characteristic that the Stalinist laureate in his signature put “Tambov Archbishop Luke” in the first place, and only then “professor of surgery”, and Stalin wrote in a reply telegram:
                  “Tambov.
                  Tambov Archbishop Luke (Voino-Yasenetsky),
                  professor of surgery

                  Please accept my greetings and thanks from the Government of the USSR for your concern for orphans, victims of fascist monsters.
                  Stalin
                  There are still questions. Unreasonable anti-Soviet and Russophobia?
                  Before you “expose” something to someone, take the trouble to read, learn, and comprehend something, but you probably haven’t been given it.
                  1. verner1967
                    verner1967 4 January 2018 20: 41
                    0
                    Quote: Pancir026
                    The source of your trash, where?

                    in the same place where you took information about his statements regarding the USSR and the Communist Party, you only need to read the book of his memoirs, and not pull the quotes from the Internet.
                    Quote: Pancir026
                    Please accept my greetings and thanks from the Government of the USSR for your concern for orphans, victims of fascist monsters.

                    mind you, children, not the Communist Party, were donated. And what did you want to say?
      2. 97110
        97110 31 December 2017 19: 00
        11
        Quote: verner1967
        Soviet people also lived with faith in communism and, thank God,

        Is your god from a merchant? Millions of Soviet people perished for the glory of the marvelous sign placed on your avatar when certain "successful people" sold their faith in communism. They cleverly traded - they sold dollars for money. How much did these "good people" get for the million lives of Soviet people? Your god will not answer? Ask.
        1. Normal ok
          Normal ok 31 December 2017 23: 16
          +1
          Quote: 97110
          when certain "successful people" sold their faith in communism. They cleverly traded - they sold dollars for money.

          Sold by the Soviet party elite. Real communists however. Lenin learned well the lessons: no principles — the main thing (business in English).
          1. Pancir026
            Pancir026 4 January 2018 12: 41
            +1
            Quote: Normal ok
            Real communists however. Lenin learned well the lessons: no principles — the main thing (business in English).

            You, Mr. Sovramshi, see absolutely poisoned by the lies of shifters and all sorts of different Solzhenitsyn. Once you allow yourself to write utter nonsense.
            You are now describing to you socially close thieves of the 90s and modern compradors-novorish, who were and were not members of the Er-Usmanovs, Friedman and other prokhorovyh.
        2. verner1967
          verner1967 1 January 2018 01: 32
          0
          Quote: 97110
          Millions of Soviet people died for the glory of the miraculous sign

          Soviet people died for rubles? What did you mean? Have you touched champagne? And my god is triune, but you don’t understand this
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey 2 January 2018 10: 56
      +3
      Quote: midshipman
      Hitler be damned why he sent us here

      Stanno ... but against the "new living space" no one was against ....
  3. Bastinda
    Bastinda 31 December 2017 07: 27
    12
    Good thing religion! And ours, and yours, and any muck justifies.
    "Well, he carried God's light in the soul"
    1. dauria
      dauria 1 January 2018 12: 20
      10
      Good thing religion! And ours, and yours, and any muck justifies


      So she is needed for this. The psyche is protected from irreversible brain damage. It is foolish to hope that the killer will reproach himself and be tormented "forever." After a while, the brain will turn on the protection of "itself" and come up with a fairy tale, and always one in which it itself will believe.
      And the article - so it is necessary to show the film "Ordinary Fascism" next. There will immediately be an aversion to both the pastor-doctor and his picture, and to this hypocritical "holiness."
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 31 December 2017 07: 40
    28
    How did a military uniform appear on a priest, the father of three children? What did he forget on a foreign land among the valiant fascist invaders? What kind of world did he pray for? Reached Stalingrad, participated in the bloodiest battle of humanity, watched the destruction of thousands of innocent people. And he wrote from the war home that "he met with a gray mass without human dignity, which has no strength for renewal." It is difficult to imagine a priest and an icon painter who came to a foreign land with a sword. It is even more difficult to read the icon he wrote, also called by the Catholics the Virgin Mary of Reconciliation. Written in fear, in cold horror, in the face of imminent death, as retribution for everything done by himself and his colleagues. What kind of reconciliation then could there be? Yes, and now too ....
    1. Normal ok
      Normal ok 31 December 2017 23: 17
      +2
      Quote: parusnik
      How did a military uniform appear on a priest, the father of three children?

      Weird question. Drafted into the army and forward.
      1. dSK
        dSK 1 January 2018 07: 06
        +1
        He was an intellectual, a well-educated person: doctor, artist, theologian.
        not killed, treated.
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey 2 January 2018 10: 59
      +4
      Yes, a normal priest ... the Lord will figure out who is there who is innocent .... like the usual practice for priests ...
  5. shinobi
    shinobi 31 December 2017 08: 24
    +5
    By your faith you will be rewarded.
    PS: They also believed in Hitler. First, as the savior of Germany, then as the vicegerent of the devil.
  6. igordok
    igordok 31 December 2017 08: 52
    +7
    In the hero city on the Volga in one of the local temples, a copy of the Roiber icon is stored.

    В catholic the temple.
    A copy of the icon is located in the Volgograd Catholic Church of St. Nicholas and is widely revered among the Volgograd Catholics like the icon "Virgin Mary of Reconciliation."
  7. Lekov L
    Lekov L 31 December 2017 09: 47
    12
    The Stalingrad Madonna became a symbol of repentance, forgiveness and hope.

    .
    revered among the Volgograd Catholics as an icon "Virgin Mary of Reconciliation."

    Here they were hoping, hoping and finally themselves decided that we reconciled with them and forgot.
    And so they became impudent again.
    And I hope that our colleagues and I have not forgotten and will try so that the children and grandchildren will remember.
    Respectfully.. soldier
  8. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 31 December 2017 09: 51
    12
    A symbol of peace ... This is when the Russian soldiers will so give the ghouls in all places, that in them, bloody creatures, a craving for peace awakens. And of course, if we talk about the world, then our warrior, destroying the reptile, should become its symbol.
    But Europeans, of course, cannot associate themselves with our soldier as a liberator. Our soldier is nothing like a European soldier. He does not burn, does not rape, does not rob, does not even humiliate, only achieves an unconditional victory. For Europeans, this behavior is absolutely unacceptable, because they do not understand - why then fight, if not for joy and enjoyment of black atrocities?
    So Europeans identify themselves, of course, with a ghoul in a black uniform. And it does not seem unreasonable to them that the ghoul somehow gets too much! No, it’s true, but if the next time an honest European wants to kill, force, seize someone else’s land, other people's wealth and other women’s, is it like that too ?! Cruel and ruthless? Subjected to "unbearable suffering"? For what?! He is not going to do anything that he has never done ...
    It is a pity that none of our soldiers wiped this "work".
    1. verner1967
      verner1967 31 December 2017 10: 46
      +5
      Quote: Mikhail3
      It is a pity that none of our soldiers wiped this "work".

      icon (albeit man-made)? fool Our soldiers, those were a thousand times smarter than you.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 31 December 2017 13: 37
        +8
        And if Aloizych painted, would you also call it an icon? Our grandfathers were squeamish. As history has shown, perhaps too much.
        1. verner1967
          verner1967 31 December 2017 14: 19
          +2
          Quote: Mikhail3
          And if Aloizych painted, would you also call it an icon?

          so he didn’t write them, otherwise he would not be “Aloysychem”;
      2. avva2012
        avva2012 3 January 2018 12: 36
        +2
        icon (albeit man-made)?
        And what, are there others?
        Well, in general, before writing, according to the canon, he only fasted. And that is not of their own free will. The Bolsheviks, the atheists forced. So it does not count.
    2. AKC
      AKC 31 December 2017 12: 04
      +3
      dear Mikhail No. 3, as I understand it, are you as a New Year’s joke? witty !!!
      If not, take an interest in history, for example, what the heroes of Suvorov did in Warsaw, or how Yermolov pacified the Caucasus. maybe you will ask why in China there are so many monuments to the soldiers of the USSR, but not to the soldiers of RI! Maybe you tell about Afghanistan, there our soldiers did not give flowers either!
      I don’t really want to talk about how our warrior robbed, but for example, on sites and in memories you can find comments on how harmonica, dishes, cloth and more were brought from Germany in Europe! And only the lazy did not speak about restitution!
      about the black atrocities of the Europeans - probably this is about how our citizens killed by order of the Germans. or even on our own initiative, of our citizens?
      It’s bad that you Europeans are identified with a ghoul in a black uniform! and you will not be offended if the European writes that the Russian is identified with a drunk ghoul in the form of the NKVD?
      Now, regarding the Kurt-fascist who came to our land, let’s lower the suffering of the pacifists, for which he fought and ran into it! I respect him as a soldier. Who received the order of his homeland (which he might not like and opposed) went to fulfill it and did not become like our soldiers who gave such a number of calloboronists and traitors as Europeans-ghouls never dreamed of!
      I know. that the local couch patriots sticks out from my comment. and they’ll blow smoke from one place, but I want to remind you: patriotism is not nonsense, but to love your country no matter what it is and is not ashamed of its history!
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 31 December 2017 13: 43
        +9
        No, our soldiers did not give flowers in battle. And about the monuments to the soldiers of the Republic of Ingushetia in China ... Gee-gee-gee! What is taiga "washing", take an interest. There were such things at one time, and the "go" was often exposed ... they themselves did in the taiga so that our pity for them did not know in principle.
        Quote: AKC
        about the black atrocities of the Europeans - probably this is about how our citizens killed by order of the Germans. or even on our own initiative, of our citizens?

        Kiev? Kharkov (from a siege besieged by a padded jacket)? Lviv?
        In general, I read. I read a lot, a lot. And I know what I'm writing about.
        Quote: AKC
        I respect him as a soldier.

        Kolya, are you logged in, why are you shy?
      2. parusnik
        parusnik 31 December 2017 14: 46
        14
        If not, take an interest in history, for example, what the heroes of Suvorov did in Warsaw,
        ... For the "atrocities" learned by Russian soldiers in Warsaw, the Warsaw Magistrate on November 15, 1794 presented A.V.Suvorov with a golden snuffbox with the inscription "Warsaw to its redeemer, day of November 4, 1794" ...
      3. avva2012
        avva2012 31 December 2017 16: 06
        +9
        Who received the order of his homeland (which he might not like and opposed) went to fulfill it and did not become like our soldiers who gave such a number of calloboronists and traitors as Europeans-ghouls never dreamed of!
        “When the Germans were in Rzhev, they forcibly drove all our mothers to work. Many managed to hide. But after all, water and food were needed. When women went out for water, they were shot from rifles or machine guns. Once I saw how several women who went out for water killed at once. Among those killed was the mother of one boy I knew, Viti. When Vitya saw that his mother was killed and lying on the street, he cried and ran to her. But he did not have to run to his mother, he fell on the stones of an empty street, and not on the mother’s corpse. A German shot him with a rifle. ”
        Kovaleva Galina, a student of the 4-th "b" class.
        “... Mom baked something from potatoes, from potatoes she could do everything, as they say now, a hundred dishes. They were getting ready for some holiday. I remember that the house smelled delicious ... The Germans surrounded the house and ordered: “Come out!” Mom and we, three children, came out. They started to beat mom, she shouts:
        - Children, go to the hut ... [247]
        They push mom into the car and get in themselves.
        ... After many years, I found out that my mother's eyes were poked out and her hair was pulled out, her breasts were cut off. A little shepherd was let into a little Galya, who was hiding under a Christmas tree. Those brought her piece by piece. Mom was still alive, mom understood everything ... Before her eyes ... "
        Valya Zmitrovich, 11 years.
        We read this note and ran with my sister to Dvina, there was no bridge in that place, people were transported in boats in the ghetto. The Germans cordoned off the shore. Before our eyes, boats were loaded by old people, children, on a boat they dragged to the middle of the river and overturned the boat. We searched, our old men were gone. We saw how the family got into the boat - a husband, wife and two children, when the boat was turned over, the adults immediately went down, and the children all surfaced. The Nazis, laughing, beat them with oars. They hit in one place, they pop up in another, catch up and beat again. But they didn’t sink like balls. ”
        Valya Yurkevich, 7 years
      4. avt
        avt 31 December 2017 16: 11
        19
        Quote: AKC
        If not, take an interest in history, for example, what the heroes of Suvorov did in Warsaw,

        well, like this
        Quote: parusnik
        ... For the "atrocities" learned by Russian soldiers in Warsaw, the Warsaw Magistrate on November 15, 1794 presented A.V.Suvorov with a golden snuffbox with the inscription "Warsaw to its redeemer, day of November 4, 1794" ...

        Quote: AKC
        or how Ermolov pacified the Caucasus.

        Hard. Toka dear - a little bit laughed. Namely - Who asked for help from the ampirator in a request to protect him from raids? Well ka - give us the hystoria that served as the almost official reason for starting the company
        Quote: AKC
        I don’t really want to talk about how our warrior robbed, but for example, on sites and in memories you can find comments on how harmonica, dishes, cloth and more were brought from Germany in Europe! And only the lazy did not speak about restitution!

        You’re lying, really want, already excitedly. So, there was no restitution of the exam, it’s just stupidly without a glance at the dictionary to see what this word means. And what is reparation. At the same time, look at what the “Morgenthau plan” of the “civilized” humanity is for the Germans.
        Quote: AKC

        Who received the order of his homeland (which he might not like and opposed) went to fulfill it and did not become like our soldiers who gave such a number of calloboronists and traitors as Europeans-ghouls never dreamed of!
        !
        Well straight European singer, already the letter l choked. Weakly SS volunteer divisions count from all over Europe recruited, without taking into account the regular troops of Italy, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia? Which type is not by order. The number of French people, for example, who were more than in the resistance, and the main part in the resistance was the Spaniards who fled from Franco.
        Quote: AKC
        Who received the order of the motherland

        Fulfill the plan, Ost? Do you even know what it is? Although the campaign of those, well, the Bavarian is dreaming of, spoiling the soldiers' graves.
        Quote: AKC
        but to love your fatherland no matter what it is and is not ashamed of its history!

        Did you try to study history yourself? Not from the voice, “Echo”, but something with digital figures from various sources, learning in comparison? Although what am I talking about! Here it is -
        Quote: AKC

        I know. that the local couch patriots sticks out from my comment. and they’ll blow smoke from one place, but I want to remind you: patriotism is not nonsense, but to love your country no matter what it is and is not ashamed of its history!

        A clerk in case, well, if you put a cat in a shit like it, you’ve already prepared it. Like, he is one bearer of secret knowledge, and everyone else should listen to his mitrofanushkino opinion with reverence.
      5. 97110
        97110 31 December 2017 19: 07
        +8
        Quote: AKC
        I don’t really want to talk about how our warrior robbed,

        Tell us what your great-grandfather brought there from the front? Well, plug the funnel.
      6. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 2 January 2018 11: 25
        11
        You clearly pull out facts that are convenient to you and ignore others. The Suvorov miraculous heroes in Warsaw avenged their comrades. Which enlightened Europe has cut out. Read what happened before the Suvorov capture of Warsaw. Db.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 2 January 2018 13: 50
            +1
            The Russians came to Shamil in Kansas with weapons in order to free the Russians who were driven into slavery there.
            RI did not free the Chinese from the horrors of Detachment 731, the ideology in China is also not imperial.
            The only thing on which account was guessed is what kind of ghouls usually had a form.
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              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 2 January 2018 18: 03
                +2
                Most, the Germans were occupiers, the Russians - liberators. For Katyn it was necessary to take revenge on the Germans. And the "propagandist" is you, from those who demolish monuments.
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                    2. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 4 January 2018 00: 51
                      0
                      He also mixed up the issue of “Polish occupation” from the past with the recent one.
                      The Polish nobility rebelled, not Polish slaves.
  9. ando_bor
    ando_bor 31 December 2017 10: 50
    +4
    Kolya needs to be told this, Kolya does not know, Stalin is to blame for everything — he did not outweigh all the Nazis as war criminals and they had to die as innocent prisoners of war.
  10. polpot
    polpot 31 December 2017 10: 55
    11
    And the children in the besieged Leningrad or Adzhimushka did not feel sorry for this pastor and his flock, and received them on business.
  11. Monarchist
    Monarchist 31 December 2017 10: 59
    +4
    Mr. Roiber later received his sight early in November 1942, and in November 1939 he did not even think about it.
    Although Dr. Goebbels thoroughly “programmed” the population, and the Gestapo of “Muller’s dad” was able to work skillfully: it’s better to shine through X-rays.
    By the way, according to Walter Schelenberg: Müller began to “clumsy” something even in the summer of 1942 and subsequently someone saw Müller in Moscow. It is not known for certain what happened to Muller.
    The Third Reich left many mysteries
    1. verner1967
      verner1967 31 December 2017 11: 46
      +2
      Quote: Monarchist
      Mr. Roiber later received his sight early in November 1942, and in November 1939 he did not even think about it.

      This is yes, and no wonder, when everything is aimed at exalting one ideology, unfortunately, this is the fate of any totalitarian state. The Russian people, unfortunately, also saw a long time from the 17th to the 91st year. Sooner or later, insight comes, well of course, if sooner rather than later.
      1. Dalailama
        Dalailama 2 January 2018 18: 15
        +1
        The power from 1937 to 1991 in the USSR was quite popular, even after the debunking of the cult of the Personality.
        Where is it seen that in non-totalitarian states, for example, the Parliament is shot, as it was in democratic Russia in 93?
        1. verner1967
          verner1967 2 January 2018 19: 15
          0
          Quote: DalaiLama
          Power from 1937 to 1991 in the USSR was quite popular

          What are you? Did the people know about this?
          Quote: DalaiLama
          how was it in democratic Russia in 93g?

          Was Russia democratic? Yes, while the Communists (albeit repainted) in the power of democracy will not be.
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 2 January 2018 19: 18
            +1
            The people - yes.
            Are you talking about Dalia Gribyne
          2. Dalailama
            Dalailama 2 January 2018 19: 33
            0
            Was Pinochet also a communist, or was he also shot by them, among others?
          3. Pancir026
            Pancir026 4 January 2018 12: 47
            +1
            Quote: verner1967
            Was Russia democratic? Yes, while the Communists (albeit repainted) in the power of democracy will not be.

            Well, well .. Mr. security guard in the service of the nouveau riche, you are now projecting the point of view of your master, it has become harder to steal, you can warm up the withers for withdrawing money and fraud, so remember with melancholy the times of the damned impotent, when you had so much democracy that the Parliament was shot and the bandits were released in Budennovsk and the infamous Khasavyurt concluded, not to mention the surrender of absolutely all their positions around the world.
            Your time. Mr. Changeling from liberals ends, other times, other songs and you will not have a place in the country.
            1. verner1967
              verner1967 4 January 2018 13: 34
              0
              Quote: Pancir026
              and in Budennovsk the bandits were released

              let’s drop another one, but about Budennovsk, were you there, among the hostages? Do you know what was there? Or are you the same witness of those events as the barricades at which you defended the USSR?
              1. Pancir026
                Pancir026 4 January 2018 13: 40
                +2
                Quote: verner1967
                Do you know what was there?

                Mr. liar, I am disgusted to communicate with you, but I will answer.
                Unlike you, the shameless liar, I had to see a lot, and the shame of Budennovsk with black-eyed and the shame of Pervomaisk with the ghoul Yeltsin. Where did our first intelligence service go. Stykina, peace be upon him and a worthy memory from colleagues.
                And here is what you “saw”, in which you “participated”, no doubt Yeltsin was glorified, and to this day you dream about the times of this impoverished madman with his “democracy”.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 4 January 2018 13: 56
                  +1
                  Yes, ChermOrdin with Budenovsky all over the world on the air managed it ....
                  1. Pancir026
                    Pancir026 4 January 2018 13: 57
                    +1
                    Quote: mat-vey
                    on the whole world live on the head ....

                    Like his immediate boss more than once. And there are still those who are trying to return to the time of this madness ...
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 4 January 2018 14: 04
                      0
                      Yes, the boss of "Alpha" began to disperse the first thing, and in Budenovsk he set it up for the most .... And how many people in the hospital were killed because of these darmocratic leaders ... the whole country saw ...
                2. verner1967
                  verner1967 4 January 2018 20: 43
                  +3
                  Quote: Pancir026
                  I had to see a lot, and the shame of Budennovsk with Chernomyrdin

                  on TV? unlike you, I can tell you where I was in Budyonnovs before the house number; I personally know the people who were in the hospital. And you there, going into battle, I did not notice something.
                  Quote: Pancir026
                  But what you “saw”, what you “participated” in is no doubt
                  Do not blabber about the topic, you still did not answer where you were when the USSR collapsed in 1991?
                  Quote: Pancir026
                  Yeltsin was glorified
  12. Curious
    Curious 31 December 2017 11: 49
    13
    Unfortunately, there are practically no materials on the site with a political-psychological analysis of both the Great Patriotic War as a whole and its pivotal stages, their mental consequences on the outcome of this confrontation.
    If we consider the battle of Stalingrad, then its results had fundamental consequences for the entire Second World War, both in the military, strategic, and moral and psychological aspects.
    During the Battle of Stalingrad, soldiers and officers of the Red Army experienced a tremendous psychological upsurge. For the participants of this Great battle, Stalingrad became a symbol of Russia, was identified with the Motherland, with all Russian land, with a grand battle of truth against falsehood. After Stalingrad, the outcome of the war was no longer in doubt. It is no accident that the victory at Stalingrad had such an international resonance. US President F. Roosevelt sent a letter of the following content: “On behalf of the people of the United States of America, I hand this letter to the city of Stalingrad to mark our admiration for his valiant defenders, whose courage, strength of spirit and selflessness will forever inspire the hearts of all free people. Their glorious victory stopped the wave of invasion and became a turning point in the war of the allied nations against the forces of aggression. "
    For fascist Germany, the defeat at Stalingrad morally and psychologically had disastrous consequences.
    Insight, fear of revenge, degradation and demoralization brought down the fighting spirit of the German army.
    This began to erode the iron discipline of German troops. It has not yet broken, but gradually reached a critical stress point.
    The defeat at Stalingrad led the Germans to understand another image of Russia as a powerful powerful adversary, capable of crushing everything in its path and avenging the actions of German troops in the occupied territory of the USSR.
    The flip side of growing despair and panic was the ever-growing decline in military discipline, which was especially evident in January 1943. The soldiers no longer wanted to "die by order," cases of complete anarchy in the troops became more frequent.
    The mood of the army began to gradually spread to the civilian population of Germany, which increasingly began to doubt the regime.
    After Stalingrad, no one doubted that "The enemy will be defeated, Victory will be ours!"
  13. vitvit123
    vitvit123 31 December 2017 11: 57
    16
    If you mix black with white, you can get a lot of different shades. This is not applicable in this matter! Only one thing - all dogs, dog death!
    In December, I accidentally met my grandmother, 2 kg each. Apples are sold on the sidewalk, because Can’t lift it anymore - very weak. So she is over 80 years old. She lived under occupation as a child. So she told me how the Germans in front of her eyes burned her girlfriend alive !!! These creatures, who paint pictures that Kolyunchik regrets, burned a girl of 12 years alive, because of her parents, her father was definitely killed. And this is a small grain of sand, in a vast ocean of atrocities! Stalin was very gentle towards them. There was no need to take prisoner!
    1. AKC
      AKC 31 December 2017 13: 30
      +2
      everything can be, but old people need to be trusted with a certain amount of skepticism. familiar veteran. (recently died) fought in Germany. and talked about that. what did they do with the Germans. so his story was very different from official propaganda. such behavior stopped only when they started to shoot! I honestly was ashamed to listen to this. I wrote it off on senility !!!
      1. mariusdeayeraleone
        mariusdeayeraleone 31 December 2017 14: 32
        +3
        Yes, I also met from those who came to Berlin, told terrible things.
        1. avt
          avt 31 December 2017 16: 24
          11
          Quote: mariusdeayeraleone
          Yes, I also met from those who came to Berlin, told terrible things.

          And from where did they actually begin to go to Berlin? About WHAT they saw along the way, I’m not talking about those battles in which they themselves participated, but about WHAT, in accordance with the plan of “Ost,” did the civilizators “didn’t tell in the USSR? I didn’t come from outsiders, and from a deceased relative, a volunteer who had left the minor and the war as a mechanic who had passed, after his father was hanged in front of his eyes. Fulfilled the order of the kurt. . Yes, let it be accepted for happiness that Stalin ORDERED ,, Hitlers come and go, but the German people remain. "Now some sort of .... aphids and mold will require repentance from us!?
      2. avva2012
        avva2012 31 December 2017 16: 25
        14
        "I honestly was ashamed to listen to this. I attributed it to senility !!!".
        "I want to live! I want to live! .."
        Vasya Kharevsky - 4 of the year.
        Now an architect.
        From these spectacles, from these lights ... This is my wealth ... This is luxury, what I experienced ...
        Nobody believes me ... Even my mother did not believe ... When they began to remember after the war, she was surprised: “You couldn’t remember it yourself, you were small. Someone told you ... "
        No, I remember ...
        Bombs are breaking, and I cling to my elder brother: “I want to live! I want to live! ”I was afraid to die, although what could I know about death then? Well?
        I remember myself ...
        Mom gave my brother and I the last two potatoes, and she only looked at us. We knew that these potatoes were the last. I wanted to leave her ... a small piece ... And I could not. Brother also could not ... We were ashamed. Awfully embarrassing.
        No, I myself ...
        I saw our first soldier ... I think it was a tanker, I won’t say it for sure ... And ran to him: “Dad !!” And he lifted me up in the arms to the sky: “Son!”
        I remember evrything…
        I remember the adults saying: “He is small. Does not understand". And I was surprised: “What strange are these adults, why did they decide that I do not understand anything? I understand". It even seemed to me that I understand more than they, because I do not cry.
        War is my history textbook. My loneliness ... I missed childhood, it fell out of my life. I am a man without childhood, instead of childhood I had a war.
        So in life then only love shocked me. When I fell in love ... I found out love ...
        “We ask: can I lick? ..”
        Vera Tashkina - 10 years.
        Now - a handyman.

        Before the war, I cried a lot ...
        Father has died. Mom left seven children in her arms. We lived poorly. Difficult. But then, in the war, it seemed like happiness, this peaceful life.
        Adults cry - war, but we were not afraid. We often played “war”, and this word was very familiar to us. I wondered why mom was crying all night. Walks with red eyes. Only later I realized ...
        We ate ... water ... It's lunch time, mom puts a pot of hot water on the table. And we pour it into bowls. Evening. Dinner. On the table is a pan of hot water. White hot water in the winter and nothing to paint over it. Not even grass.
        From hunger, his brother ate the corner of the stove. Gnawed, gnawed every day when they noticed there was a hole in the stove. Mom took the last things, went to the market and exchanged for potatoes, for corn. Then he will cook mamalygi, divide, and we glance at the pan, ask: can I lick it? Licked at a time. And after us, the cat still licks, she also went hungry. I do not know what else she had left in the pan. After us there is not a drop. Even the smell of food is gone. The smell is licked.
        All the while waiting for our ...
        When our planes began to bomb, I did not run to hide, but rushed off to look at our bombs. Found a splinter ...
        “And where does it carry you?” - the frightened mother meets at home. - What are you hiding there?
        - And I do not hide. I brought a splinter.
        - Here it will kill, you will know.
        - What are you, mom! After all, this is a splinter from our bomb. How could he kill me?
        I kept it for a long time ... CHILDHOOD SEATED BY WAR. "LAST WITNESSES. SOLO FOR CHILDREN'S VOICE." There are many, there are still in these memories. It’s a pity that you can’t be via the Internet .....
        1. AKC
          AKC 31 December 2017 17: 05
          +1
          Well, why did you put this court in? what claims to me? these are the stories of grandfather, I bought for what I sold for that. or patriotism already prevents you from thinking! or do you doubt the veteran’s words? And he was not the only one to tell, you can find it yourself!
          I hope that my grandfather went crazy and carried nonsense, it will be insulting if he suddenly turns out to be right !!!
          Of course, it’s a pity that it is impossible through the Internet. Although you can apologize, you can and must even!
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 31 December 2017 20: 29
            +7
            I would, apologize ..... Believe me, it immediately became clear to you that what sometimes looks like a person is not always it. On the other hand, you have to live with it further. You will not envy.
            1. AKC
              AKC 31 December 2017 20: 58
              +2
              You’d have to show this coolness, not to show it on the network, but to the veteran who told me to say how he lived with it. He would explain it to you right away and so you understood for the rest of your life !!
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 1 January 2018 07: 16
                +6
                You don’t speak for a veteran, don’t stick with someone else’s. I’m not talking to him, but to another juvenile .... So do what 97110 recommended to you with the comment above.
              2. The comment was deleted.
            2. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 2 January 2018 08: 51
              +8
              Quote: avva2012
              I would, apologize ..... Believe me, it immediately became clear to you that what sometimes looks like a person is not always it. On the other hand, you have to live with it further. You will not envy.

              Sometimes, you think --- man, you come closer ---- sheer waste ..
              Here is not a single staff member who does not repent of the destruction of the Indians, is not ashamed of the bombing of Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, does not reflect without lies about Syria ......
              Also, the Germans, somehow keep quiet about the crimes of fascism ......
              And the Poles do not regret anything, but only blame Russia ....
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 2 January 2018 08: 56
            +7
            These are not stories of the grandfather-veteran but lies and slander about the Second World War. This is preparation, with which his son will speak in the Bundestag! That's what!
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 2 January 2018 11: 12
              +5
              Quote: Reptiloid
              These are not stories of the grandfather-veteran, but lies and slander about the Great Patriotic War

              And my grandfather told me that (at the end of the war, the 28th army) what kind of “disgrace with the local population” neither the penal battalion, nor the penalty company was supposed to — either a bullet, or the development of the Arctic Circle ...
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 2 January 2018 13: 53
                +2
                It happened that for chocolate, in adulthood. Half of the German rape statement was from prostitutes who were not paid, who filed repeatedly. About your "veteran political campaigns." In the film "four days in May" shows the category that is usually involved in this (rape). She also usually engaged in theft even with her own soldiers, because of which, without thinking, he wrote a statement about the theft of Klimov and then barely managed to escape to the west.
                1. Pancir026
                  Pancir026 4 January 2018 12: 57
                  +1
                  Quote: DalaiLama
                  It happened that for chocolate, in adulthood.

                  Actually, the ABSOLUTELY most of the rapes, coercion to this. Was committed by the soldiers of the western zones of occupation, by the Americans, the British and the French.
                  And probably from the "horrors" in the Soviet zone, in the city of Magdeburg, to the Soviet military commandant, when he was walking around the city, once a week. The Germans on the contrary WAS bowing and giving way to the tram, seeing the front-line soldier with the iconostasis of orders and medals on the 1962 front uniform -1970 year.
                  He himself met an old German woman in West Berlin, who listened, watched how she behaved and what a young German woman mutters, a saleswoman in a children's clothing store, when I bought a child’s jumpsuit there, I scolded this young silly woman so that her skin color first changed to burgundy, and then turned green — and an elderly German woman told me, “thanks to your soldiers, I remember. Thanks to whom my family and I survived in 1945, I remember how they fed us for free and how we kids, Russian soldiers gave both the supplement and myself something tasty
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 4 January 2018 18: 40
                    +1
                    In the territory of the future Germany where 4,7 million Germans did not die of free feeding from starvation, the "humanitarian bombing" continued on an even larger scale.
                2. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 4 January 2018 16: 05
                  0
                  Quote: DalaiLama
                  In the movie "four days in May"

                  And besides evil fabrications, something based on documents will be based on?
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 4 January 2018 18: 39
                    +1
                    For documents to the German police. About half of the appeals from prostitutes it turned out from there from a professional column.
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 4 January 2018 18: 42
                      0
                      Quote: DalaiLama
                      For documents to the German police

                      Why else it was not expected ...
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 4 January 2018 18: 49
                        +1
                        Where else? Not in your housing office.
                    2. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 4 January 2018 18: 52
                      0
                      Quote: DalaiLama
                      Where else? Not in your housing office.

                      And what have they already asked in the housing office? If not, then where does such confidence come from?
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 4 January 2018 20: 09
                        0
                        Do you work there? Or did they go to the square in the corner on the cobblestones to sit?
            3. The comment was deleted.
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 2 January 2018 18: 40
                +3
                Of course not, you’ll start talking about your grandfather there, and they don’t even need such moral ones.
              2. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 2 January 2018 21: 26
                +6
                I know the veterans themselves. Rather, he knew and heard their stories.
                There is nothing to lie and slander bad things! And you won’t go to the Bundestag, so we can go to Poland or somewhere else ----- from there you will bark together with your relatives. HERE bonuses you earn what was something to boast about
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. your1970
        your1970 31 December 2017 16: 43
        +9
        my father served in Germany on the T-10, was a tank commander. We drove to the exercises, a one-armed and one-legged elderly German stood on crutches on the road. He began to point a finger at them and laugh. The father said: the whole crew - those who saw (and rode with open hatches) started yelling at the driver: "Vasya entrust !!!" and he began to turn around, but late - they slipped ...
        In the evening, the special officer called his father and began to ask, “How was it going?” Father said. The special officer flipped through personal files, thought, said, they say, "do not tremble too much and that this would not happen anymore" and let go ...
        There were only 2 living fathers and 9 dead male relatives on the crew ... They had this moral law - the right to avenge the death of family and friends.
        Past front - even more so had such a moral right.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. your1970
            your1970 31 December 2017 20: 30
            +7
            do you know the formula of the Russian obscene: "I am your mother"?
            This was such an embodiment of revenge - as the humiliation of the enemy, as the impossibility for the enemy to protect his mother, wife, sister, as an indicator that the enemy is no longer a man - his defender, and so - there is no one to call anyone ..... The enemy is already a piece of meat on the sidelines of the war ....

            ZY And you need to pay attention - that this was not a massive and / or universal rape of all in a row.These were the nervous breakdowns of people who were psychologically exhausted by the war.The grandfather told me the offensive, a wounded German, without legs and a torn belly, was moaning, not a tenant, on the halt next to the bonfire. There were no medics at all, they were behind. Someone suggested, let’s say let's shoot so that we don’t suffer, it’s impossible to moan, but one soldier - who has the whole family left under the Germans - no, they say, I will listen - and think that it will be easier for me to be one German ...
            We sat, ate and went forward.
            We DO NOT have the moral right to judge them - people of that time - whatever they do
            ZYZZY We are sitting on the couch - and it is not known how we would behave in that situation and in those conditions ...
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 2 January 2018 14: 02
              +2
              Also except zy.zy. they wrote nonsense.
        2. avva2012
          avva2012 31 December 2017 20: 34
          +6
          They had a moral right to this - the right to avenge the death of family and friends.
          I think, without options, they were entitled to a lot. I read the recollections of a partisan who survived the terrible death of his relatives. According to him, the Germans were lucky to have gone so long to Germany. Kill tired.
  14. Taoist
    Taoist 31 December 2017 14: 56
    +7
    No need to get hardened men, no need to be like yourself you know to whom ... Everyone has the right to a grave. It is necessary to remember and not to go wild ... This is their repentance ... but not ours.
    1. free
      free 31 December 2017 18: 07
      +6
      Quote: Taoist
      No need to get hardened men, no need to be like yourself you know to whom ... Everyone has the right to a grave. It is necessary to remember and not to go wild ... This is their repentance ... but not ours.

      In battle, anger is no worse than courage, as the ancestors said. And the battle is ahead of us again and it will not be easy!
      1. Taoist
        Taoist 31 December 2017 19: 14
        +5
        It’s just good to have a cold head in battle. And we just "swing".
    2. Evgenijus
      Evgenijus 31 December 2017 22: 08
      0
      Taoist:
      It is necessary to remember and not beast ... It is their repentance ... and not ours at all.

      Very much agree! Do not be like ISIS - sheep.
    3. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 1 January 2018 21: 28
      +4
      Quote: Taoist
      No need to get hardened men, no need to be like yourself you know to whom ... Everyone has the right to a grave. It is necessary to remember and not to go wild ... This is their repentance ... but not ours.

      The thing is that, according to Protestantism ----- he repented, so it is impossible to blame his victims. And the fact that they do not return ---- he does not care. He regrets, therefore, what is not to blame for what claims. Look, the Americans are mistaken, then they bomb the wrong ones, then here .... The President said ---- they got sick! And that’s it! They need to lie, but do not repent at all!
  15. shura7782
    shura7782 31 December 2017 16: 35
    12
    . They wanted to spit on repose and history lessons. The very fact that German tanks again at our borders speaks of this .. There will be an order and they will cross this line again.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  16. Evgenijus
    Evgenijus 31 December 2017 18: 38
    +3
    I read the comments on the article, so you might think that we live in the ISIS camp. Every third person (and maybe the second one?) Has an ax on his side, and in rucksacks there are red overalls. The article is not about that ...
    But all the same - all with the upcoming (coming) New Year! wink
  17. peta locksmith
    peta locksmith 31 December 2017 20: 53
    +9
    oh kaka sadness - fascist charcoal icons painted
    not a pastor / doctor / artist - but a killer and an invader
    dead - and there is a way for him ...
    I paraphrase the famous saying "I’m satisfied with dead fascists near Stalingrad, because I don’t get to hell with Russia"
    low bow and Eternal memory to our ancestors for crushing the Nazis near Stalingrad !!!!
    1. Evgenijus
      Evgenijus 31 December 2017 22: 20
      +3
      Himself what did to finish today's neo-fascists and neo-Nazis? Comments beautiful scribbled? And is it very weak to fly to Boeing and to the German airport to put your own slogan to Berlin? And the park with the memorial to the soldiers who died in Russia in World War II has swept the broom at least once? Or has he invested his money in the fund of veterans of the Great Patriotic War in his city? It’s necessary to write about it, but not about your contentment with the shed blood of your ancestors.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 1 January 2018 07: 25
        +5
        This pathetic speech, about weakly, past the cash register. If you forgot, these are comments under the article, and not the reporting conference of the public organization for cleaning monuments. Who did what is not discussed here. Well, and you, if you want, should take such views as yours, not in Berlin, but 2 of August in any Russian city to start with. It is advisable to those who are older. Then, you can leave a report on VO when everything is fused.
      2. peta locksmith
        peta locksmith 1 January 2018 08: 10
        +4
        fascists are not my ancestors! -

        in my comment it says "I'm happy with the dead fascists ...." !!!!

        maybe they are your relatives, then your sadness "for the shed blood of ancestors" is understandable!
      3. peta locksmith
        peta locksmith 1 January 2018 08: 11
        +2
        fascists are not my ancestors! -
        in my comment it says "I'm happy with the dead fascists ...." !!!!
        maybe they are your relatives, then your sadness "for the shed blood of ancestors" is understandable!
      4. verner1967
        verner1967 1 January 2018 11: 34
        +2
        Quote: Evgenijus
        But is it weak to fly to Berlin yourself on a Boeing and set your slogan at a German airport? A park with a memorial to the soldiers who died in Russia in World War II swept the broom at least once? Or did he invest his money in the fund of WWII veterans in his city?

        don’t toss the beads in front of .... bacon, it’s couch warriors, they’d like to wave from sofas with a cardboard saber,
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 1 January 2018 12: 18
          +8
          Whoa, who are you here? And what are you doing? As I understand it, in contrast to the “couch warriors”, do you work, which means that you don’t get pluses at the end of the week?
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 1 January 2018 18: 24
            0
            Quote: avva2012
            work, and therefore, not pluses, at the end of the week, do you get?

            ek hurt you, but where is that treasured ticket office, you won’t tell me, because I’ve tried to find out from our opponents on Censor, but they didn’t say anything except for the “paid agent agent”.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 2 January 2018 02: 37
              +5
              Do not foolishly. He goes to the censor, he fights with opponents. .... "Another night stand and hold out a day"? Meanwhile, it has long been known that the Like reaches for the like, Anika, the warrior.
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 2 January 2018 05: 48
                0
                Quote: avva2012
                He goes to the censor, he fights with opponents.

                I don’t go anymore, it’s blocked, so where is the ticket office,
                Quote: avva2012
                Anika, the warrior.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 2 January 2018 07: 10
                  +2
                  I don’t go anymore, he’s blocked

                  Byad.
                  so where is the ticket office

                  Do you work at the call of your soul? Even worse.
                  1. verner1967
                    verner1967 2 January 2018 10: 47
                    +1
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Do you work at the call of your soul?

                    Yes, I don’t work here, no need to judge everyone by myself
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 2 January 2018 11: 26
                      +5
                      It would be better to work, so at least it is clear: “commodity-money-commodity”, for a modern formation, of course.
                      1. verner1967
                        verner1967 2 January 2018 13: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: avva2012
                        so at least it’s clear:

                        Well, if it’s understandable, then it’s acceptable for you, then the question is for you: are you here at the rate or for the grub?
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 2 January 2018 17: 15
                      +4
                      then the question is for you: are you here at the rate or for the grub?

                      Clever, very, pulling a few words out of context. You can immediately see the veteran. Then, take a diagnosis for yourself and not even understand it. I especially liked your revelations about the Censor, who would know, although from the set of stamps it was clear from where.
                      1. verner1967
                        verner1967 2 January 2018 19: 17
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        who would know, although from the set of stamps it was clear from where.

                        well, well ... keep on intellect further laughing
                    3. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 04: 17
                      +4
                      well, well ... keep on intellect further

                      I will try. Why not, if there is anything?
  18. Captain Nemo
    Captain Nemo 1 January 2018 16: 01
    +3
    Without diminishing the horror that was happening in the occupied territories at the hands of Germans and accomplices of different nationalities, please remember that many millions of Germans were simply mobilized and not guilty of atrocities. And the story told in the article is the tragic story of a doctor and a priest who simply fulfilled his human duty
    1. verner1967
      verner1967 1 January 2018 18: 26
      0
      Quote: Captain Nemo
      millions of Germans were simply mobilized and not guilty of atrocities.

      well, they’ll ask you right now .... for Kolya from Urengoy the government is already interceding
      1. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 2 January 2018 00: 01
        +2
        It has long been proven that hysteria is a contagious disease and spreads according to the epidemic mechanism.
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 2 January 2018 03: 30
          +3
          hysteria - a contagious disease

          Hatred of traitors, is it hysteria? In my opinion, this is a natural feeling. You, like everyone else, don’t like any parasites there? Therefore, I think you will not live in harmony and in peace with pinworms, right?
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 2 January 2018 10: 47
            0
            Quote: avva2012
            Hatred of traitors, is it hysteria?

            and who is the traitor? Who are you talking about now?
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 2 January 2018 11: 32
              +5
              About whom? They know. Or do you think that a traitor is mentally retarded and does not understand what he is doing? Hardly. It is possible that at some point, try to mow. Will it help, we'll see.
    2. avva2012
      avva2012 2 January 2018 03: 26
      +7
      please remember that many millions of Germans were simply mobilized and not guilty of atrocities.

      Not in the know, or with verner, the memory has lost that
      Acre "struggle with zh.id.do-Bolshevism", the German nation had to:
      - conquer living space;
      - Untermensch were supposed to serve the German race of superhumans.
      Have you ever seen idotov refusing free land and slaves? The Germans were not them, for the most part. Have you forgotten about the osterbaiters? I think no.
      So, all Germans of a conscious age, except anti-fascists, are directly or indirectly guilty of atrocities on the territory of the USSR, because they actively supported the policies of the leaders of the Third Reich.
      Without diminishing that horror

      So do not beg, otherwise fate has a strange sense of humor.
      1. verner1967
        verner1967 2 January 2018 05: 57
        0
        Quote: avva2012
        Have you ever seen idotov refusing free land and slaves?

        so you
        Quote: avva2012
        id

        or do not refuse
        Quote: avva2012
        from free land and slaves?
        lol
        Quote: avva2012
        So, all Germans of a conscious age, except anti-fascists, are directly or indirectly guilty of atrocities on the territory of the USSR, because they actively supported the policies of the leaders of the Third Reich.

        The fact that they are enemies who came to our land with war, no one denies, but many came because they were fooled by Goebbels propaganda and many, even judging by this story, received sight, albeit late, but it is better than never. Continuing your logic, the population of our country is also responsible for the actions of the Communists, who, with their propaganda, led for 70 years by the nose, people who believed them?
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 2 January 2018 07: 13
          +5
          Hamim military?
          You, in vain, talk about logic, judging by everything what kind of animal it is, you are not aware.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 2 January 2018 08: 39
            +7
            Quote: avva2012
            Hamim military?
            You, in vain, talk about logic, judging by everything what kind of animal it is, you are not aware.

            Yes Yes. Interestingly, Alexander, your opponent, did you become one yourself, or who specially trained? COMMUNISTS 70 YEARS DRIVED AND DRIVED THE POPULATION of the USSR, and nevertheless led to universal literacy, and to an increase in the life span of ~ 30 years, at the beginning of the century, to normal housing instead of a bed in a pre-revolutionary hut. But it turns out that some were given in vain literacy. Enemies of the USSR and Russia turned out of them. But then the bourgeois managers (the same Gref) quickly realized that not everyone needs education.
            1. verner1967
              verner1967 2 January 2018 10: 44
              0
              Quote: Reptiloid
              COMMUNISTS 70 YEARS DRIVED AND DRIVED THE POPULATION of the USSR, and nevertheless led to universal literacy, and to an increase in the life span of ~ 30 years, at the beginning of the century, to normal housing instead of a bed in a pre-revolutionary hut.

              only in the USSR was universal literacy? In capitalist countries, too, there was universal literacy and a higher life expectancy, as well as its level. Take, for example, Finland - a fragment of the former RI, which abandoned the communist paradise.
              Quote: Reptiloid
              But then the bourgeois managers (the same Gref) quickly realized that not everyone needs education.

              Well, these bourgeois managers come from the CPSU
              German G.O. in 1982-1984 he served in the Armed Forces of the USSR, in the special forces of the internal troops of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs.
              1990 - graduated from the Law Faculty of Omsk State University with a degree in Law and was left as a teacher of the Law Faculty of Omsk State University. At the university he was a Komsomol of the course and the head of the Komsomol opera detachment, joined the CPSU
              and everything that was laid in him by that Soviet upbringing, he realizes now. He built his resonant performance based on the authority of BUDDHA, CONFUSION and MARX . And why be surprised? Manipulation by society is precisely the legacy of the communist past: the party - only the CPSU, leadership positions - only to members of the CPSU, elections - the only candidate from the bloc of communists and non-partisans, but only the party. And where is the power in the hands of the population? He said the same thing.
              It turns out that we have no right to free information and cannot be
              it is also from there from the USSR, they told us there that it is possible to read, that - it is impossible, that it is possible to listen - that it is impossible. What did he say new? By the way, when he talked about knowledge, he was referring specifically to gaining additional knowledge disliked by the leadership of the state, and this is somehow not the same as getting an education, that’s how cleverly you all manipulated. Yes, and I do not agree with Gref on everything.
            2. verner1967
              verner1967 2 January 2018 11: 13
              +1
              Quote: Reptiloid
              But here are the bourgeois managers

              by the way, about bourgeois managers, even a mossy bureaucrat: senator, member of the State Council, state secretary, minister of internal affairs, twice chairman of the Council of Ministers Ivan Logginovich Goremykin said: “The main real power of the state, whatever its form, is developed and strengthened self-reliance personality; only a habit of self-government can develop in the people’s self-organization, while the development of bureaucracy and government guardianship creates only depersonalized and incoherent crowds, human dust ”, as this diverges from the policy of the Communists.
            3. avva2012
              avva2012 2 January 2018 11: 18
              +4
              Quote: Reptiloid But it turns out that some were given in vain literacy. Enemies of the USSR and Russia turned out of them.

              Not everyone can feel gratitude. No wonder there is folk wisdom, "without feeding, you cannot make an enemy." Imagine how the majority lived in RI, not able to. There is nothing to compare.
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 2 January 2018 11: 35
                0
                Quote: avva2012
                Not everyone can feel gratitude.

                thanks to whom? Do you have a state for the people or a people for the state? Apparently the second. The slave psychology laid down by the CPSU is already ineradicable .... sad
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 2 January 2018 17: 00
                  +5
                  Do you have a state for the people or a people for the state?

                  The state is a community of people. That was the case under the communists. Now it’s different.
                  The slave psychology laid down by the CPSU is already ineradicable ....

                  And here the words of V. I. Lenin come up: "A slave who is aware of his slavish position and struggles against him is a revolutionary. A slave who is not aware of his slavery and vegetates in a silent, unconscious and wordless slave life is just a slave. A slave whose saliva flows when he smugly describes the delights of a slave life and admires a kind and good master, is a serf, boor".
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 2 January 2018 18: 33
                    +1
                    Another nonsense from Ilyich who drove the Russian peasants who survived the revolution to the collective farm slavery in which they worked for workdays and an armful of rotten straw?
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 2 January 2018 19: 45
                      +4
                      Quote: DalaiLama
                      Another nonsense

                      Actually yours.
                      Your reasoning is strange.
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 2 January 2018 20: 01
                        +1
                        I have facts. This could not even be called slavery, rather slavery, which is even worse.
                      2. badens1111
                        badens1111 2 January 2018 20: 54
                        +6
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        I have facts. This could not even be called slavery, rather slavery, which is even worse.

                        This is frank nonsense.
                        "Facts" ... just what "facts" about this were not given by people of your mood, and all in reality turn out to be a complete lie.
                      3. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 2 January 2018 22: 49
                        +1
                        Is it nonsense that the comrades of your attitude drove the remaining Russian peasants into collective farms, or that they "paid" for their labor?
                  2. verner1967
                    verner1967 2 January 2018 19: 18
                    +2
                    Quote: avva2012
                    A slave whose saliva flows when he smugly describes the delights of a slave life and admires a kind and good master, is a serf, boor

                    in-in, just about the Stalinists laughing
                    Quote: avva2012
                    The state is a community of people. So it was under the communists
                    change in the second sentence the word "was" to the word "spoken", that’s more correct.
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 04: 07
                      +6
                      in-in, just about the Stalinists

                      This is about the minions of the owners. They don’t care who the boss is, the main thing is the boss. In the form of Abramovich, Ivanov, Petrov, Sidorov or Hans in the uniform of the Wehrmacht or Bundeswehr. Dirlewanger, Vlasov, ataman Semenov and others. Lesser lackeys. Only one end to them, loop and eternal damnation.
                      laughing

                      Let's drink for the Motherland, drink for Stalin. Let's drink and pour it again! Happy New Year! wink
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 3 January 2018 15: 44
                        +3
                        I looked at many comments verner1967. He comments on patriotic articles, distracts people with nitpicking, malicious remarks, slander, distortion of facts and outright lies. Until I found some necessary, good information. It pushes aside other slanderers and liars. We’ll have to study the other lies of different commentators about innocent Germans. Something lately the number of lies and filth in the comments has been increasing or is there a little ooh, so that there would be less readers, or fewer comments?
                      2. verner1967
                        verner1967 4 January 2018 12: 01
                        +1
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Let's drink for the Motherland, drink for Stalin. Let's drink and pour it again!

                        Why !!! laughing
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Happy New Year!

                        Happy New Year! Reds. Merry Christmas, Orthodox! God bless Russia!
                      3. verner1967
                        verner1967 4 January 2018 12: 05
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        This is about the minions of the owners. They don’t care who the boss is, the main thing is the boss. In the form of Abramovich, Ivanov, Petrov, Sidorov or Hans in the uniform of the Wehrmacht or Bundeswehr. Dirlewanger, Vlasov, ataman Semenov and others. Lesser lackeys.

                        Could not continue (or add)
                        Quote: avva2012
                        They don’t care who the boss is, the main thing is the boss. As

                        We’ll let Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, the old senile deceased one by one, Gorbachev, Yeltsin. After all, each of them crap on the previous one and imagined himself the most correct (for the sake of justice, they didn’t touch Lenin), and the Communists were united for each of them. Yes, I almost forgot, between Lenin and Stalin there are generally a bunch of leaders of a lower rank, they were also leaders, they sang toasts, and then it turned out to be enemies of the people. laughing
                2. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 2 January 2018 19: 09
                  +6
                  Quote: verner1967
                  Quote: avva2012
                  Not everyone can feel gratitude.

                  thanks to whom? Do you have a state for the people or a people for the state? Apparently the second. ... sad

                  The Russian Federation is a bourgeois state. Therefore, the bourgeois party is in power. In the Duma, all parties are bourgeois. Therefore, first of all, the interests of the bourgeoisie are respected. Since the middle class is small, it should be said about the interests of the big bourgeoisie. The oligarchs mean. What does the people have to do with it?
                  In the USSR it was different.
            4. verner1967
              verner1967 2 January 2018 13: 15
              0
              Quote: Reptiloid
              The USSR and brought out the same .... to increase the life expectancy of ~~~ 30 years, at the beginning of the century

              Life expectancy in RI:
              1894-1903-31,7 (average for men and women)
              1904-1913-33,5 (similar)
              That is, over 10 years, the indicator of life expectancy has increased by 1,8 years, i.e. increased by 0,18 years per year.
              You can calculate the approximate figures if the pace is maintained.

              1924-1933-37,1
              1931-1940-38,4

              For real values ​​in the USSR during this period, we take data from the ADH book "Population of the Soviet Union 1922-1991". I specially cite figures without anomalous 1933
              1924-1932-36,4 (with "forecast" 37,1)
              1931-1940 (without 1933) -39,2 (with "forecasted" 38,4)
              Thus, we see that the real indicators of the Sovdep are not very different from those that could be achieved while maintaining the tsarist pace.
              Life expectancy of RI and the USSR

              http://nikital2014.livejournal.com/31663.html
              Quote: Reptiloid
              it turns out that some were given in vain literacy.

              I can’t read the information on the Internet.
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 2 January 2018 13: 23
                +7
                Quote: verner1967
                I can’t read the information on the Internet.

                It doesn’t work out or doesn’t want to lie awkwardly and not see what is written in black and white *
                Year Average life expectancy in the USSR

                1917 32
                1927 44
                1939 47
                1955 64
                1956 67
                1958 68
                1959 69
                1961 70
                1975 70,4
                1980 70,9
                1985 71,4
                1990 69,5
                1995 64
                2000 62
                2005 60

                Considering the data of this table as a result of the development of the Soviet state and society, the primary foundations of which were laid in 1917, it should be noted that the lag is in the average life expectancy by 1917. in comparison with other most developed bourgeois states it was very large. From the most developed countries (England. USA. France) it was more than 20 years. Even from the most backward in Europe - Austria-Hungary - more than 7-8 years.
                It is very interesting to compare this leap in this main indicator of historical progress in the USSR made in the XX century with a similar situation that has taken place in the USA, England, France, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. Data on this is shown in the following table. (data from: Rosset E. Duration of human life. M. 1981, p.207)

                year average life expectancy
                1840 41,0
                1860 42,2
                1880 45,2
                1900 50,5
                1910 54,3
                1920 58,3
                1930 61,7
                1940 64,6
                1950 69,8
                1960 72,0
                1965 72,3

                In order to comment on this table, I note that in order to achieve approximately the level of life expectancy that was in the USSR in 1985, these countries took almost 120 years, while we have about 70. I also note that the table has been counted from 1840 ., where the life expectancy was already 9 years higher than that of Russia in 1917. From this we can conclude that one of the main lines of historical progress, which I reduce to the growth of life expectancy in the conditions of Soviet society, was 1.8 times more intense than in these bourgeois countries. The data presented indicate that the USSR followed, and in very large steps, along the main road of historical progress after 1917, despite a number of negative phenomena in these years.
                http://zazubr.org/2016/09/07/30848/
                1. verner1967
                  verner1967 2 January 2018 14: 02
                  0
                  Quote: badens1111
                  that would lie awkwardly and not see what is written in black and white

                  yeah, but nothing that periods of 9-10 years were given, and not separate years were "torn out". And even if you compare by year, it’s not much that the numbers differ.
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 2 January 2018 15: 05
                    +2
                    Quote: verner1967
                    And even if you compare by year, it’s not much that the numbers differ.

                    Give a calculator? 2 + 2 add, subtract, is there a great problem for you?
                    1. verner1967
                      verner1967 2 January 2018 19: 22
                      0
                      Quote: badens1111
                      great problem for you

                      You see, the statistics are slightly different from arithmetic in the context of 2 + 2, try to expand your knowledge.
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 2 January 2018 19: 48
                        +4
                        Quote: verner1967
                        You see, the statistics are slightly different from arithmetic in the context of 2 + 2, try to expand your knowledge.

                        The breadth of your knowledge in statistics strictly tends to zero, and likewise, your mathematical calculation of knowledge is equal to zero, what are you trying to talk about?
                        Do you have a good face with a clearly lost game?
                        However, I remember a certain “kote manul”, your previous reincarnation, suffered from the same drawback - to make dirt and shame all around, using the method of insignificant, meaningless and absolutely empty comments.
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 04: 32
                      +3
                      However, I remember a certain "kote manul", your previous reincarnation,

                      Wow! So, is this the same shifter? Then, it was at first patriotic. And, perhaps, he should remember: "Zer gud Waldemar, zer gud ..."
                2. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 2 January 2018 14: 05
                  +5
                  Thank you for writing such a great comment! VLAD! And falsification, distortion of facts is just characteristic of foreign human rights activists, NGOs, employees and their voluntary helpers for the sake of $$$$, €€€, cookies, too.
                  1. verner1967
                    verner1967 2 January 2018 14: 18
                    0
                    Quote: Reptiloid
                    Thank you for writing such a great comment!

                    designed for faraway people
                    Quote: badens1111
                    From this we can conclude that one of the main lines of historical progress, which I reduce to the growth of life expectancy in the conditions of Soviet society, was 1.8 times more intense than in these bourgeois countries.

                    A person has a life limit, given to him by nature, so that the growth of life expectancy cannot be infinite, but will gradually slow down, reaching limit values. The capitalist countries achieved this earlier than the USSR, this is the whole "trick" of this technique. So leave this campaign for the poor. laughing
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 2 January 2018 15: 09
                      +5
                      Quote: verner1967
                      designed for faraway people

                      Designed for you, as soon as they give you a shit, something immediately unreadable, unintelligible and unreliable will come from you.
                      Quote: verner1967
                      A person has a life limit, given to him by nature, so that the growth of life expectancy cannot be infinite, but will gradually slow down, reaching limit values. The capitalist countries achieved this earlier than the USSR, this is the whole "trick" of this technique.

                      For people who are especially smart, who don’t have the ability to recognize even the fact that they can compare the developed countries of capitalism and its periphery, the numbers are different. Compare with us, taking into account that they have, on their territory over the 20th century, everything happened and us-1 world , Civil, World War II, with emphasis, they say in the West is better, at least the lot of professional provocateurs.
                      Compare with the USA? And when was the last time there was a war on their territory in the USA? And where did they lose about 30 million people in the 20s of the 8th century?
                      Be silent already ..
                      1. verner1967
                        verner1967 2 January 2018 19: 24
                        0
                        Quote: badens1111
                        And where did they lose about 30 million people in the 20s of the 8th century?

                        and where about 60 million from the 17th to the 41st in the USSR sunk
                      2. verner1967
                        verner1967 2 January 2018 19: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: badens1111
                        For especially smart people who do not have the ability to recognize at least that they can compare the developed countries of capitalism and its periphery, the numbers are already different. Comparing with us, taking into account that they have, on their territory over the 20th century every thing happened

                        Quote: badens1111
                        something unreadable, incomprehensible rushes from you at once

                        how are you self-critical about yourself laughing
                      3. badens1111
                        badens1111 2 January 2018 20: 01
                        +2
                        Quote: verner1967
                        and where about 60 million from the 17th to the 41st in the USSR sunk

                        Solzhenitsyn is glad that in his legacy of a liar, there are liars like you.
                        During the civil war and foreign intervention (1918-1922), irretrievable losses (killed, died from wounds and diseases, etc.) in the Red Army alone are estimated at 940 thousand people. These calculations are based on documents available in the military archives. Regarding the "white armies" there are no such documents. There is only speculation that the losses of the “whites” were no less. As a result, the "combat" losses of both sides are estimated during the civil war at 2-2,5 million people.
                        It should be borne in mind that during this war several times more people died from typhus and other epidemic diseases in both warring armies than from bullets and shells. The same epidemics, along with hunger, also mowed the civilian population. From the data of demographic statistics it can be seen that the famine in the Volga region in 1921 claimed about 1 million people.
                        In addition, after the end of the civil war, at least 2 million people. found himself abroad as "white emigrants" (such a figure was named at the X Congress of the RCP (B.) in March 1921 by the head of the Soviet government). These included, first of all, representatives of the socio-political elite of pre-revolutionary Russia, officers and soldiers of the military units of the White Movement.
                        From these data it follows that the "net" decline in the population of the Soviet Union during the civil war amounted to 3,2 million people. Including the population of the Russian Federation decreased from 89,9 million people. in 1913 to 87,7 million people. in 1922, i.e. more than 2 million people.
                        The first Soviet census, conducted in 1926, showed that over 4 years the country's population had increased by 10 million people. and reached 147 million people.

                        It is interesting to note that population reproduction rates in 1926 turned out to be better than in 1913. The birth rate was almost equal to that which occurred in the indicated pre-war year, and the mortality rate decreased from 29,1 ppm in 1913 to 20,3 ppm in 1926 Accordingly, the natural growth rate in 1926 was 23,7 ppm (in 1913, 16,8 ppm).
                        The next census of the country was carried out in 1939. It showed that the number of inhabitants of the USSR increased to 170,6 million people, i.e. increased by 23,5 million people.
                        At the same time, dear, you’re “embarrassed” all the time to admit this, I’ll remind you: according to the 2010 census, the population of the Russian Federation decreased from 145166,7 thousand people in 2002 to 142905, 2 thousand people in 2010 or 2261,5 thousand people (1,6%), which is quite comparable with the losses during the civil war, but now the time is peaceful. And if you recall the results of the census of 1989 (only the RSFSR) - 147400 thousand people. By the way, over the thirteen years from 1989 to 2002, the population decreased by 2234 thousand people, that is, in fact, the same amount as in the past eight.
                        Over the past 30 years, have we had a war, a famine, have aliens invaded? No?
                        Then why do you come straight with tears, bringing fakes in the form of digits, invented by you, and for your deeds just recently, keep silent like a fish on ice?
                    2. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 2 January 2018 19: 44
                      +5
                      And it should be remembered that among the ruling class and rich people there are frequent reports of long years of life, at all times, in different countries, of individuals, despite the overall low average age. For example, if Nikolai’s mother 2 lived 81 years, with an average age of that pre-revolutionary time, then how long can another person live to get an average age of ~~~~ 31 years old? In response, the result is a negative number, which suggests that many residents of Russia did not live to be not only up to 31 years old, but also up to a year. Somehow, there were big comments from AVVA2012.
                      It follows that a long life, like good health, like medicine and taking care of one’s health, was all a privilege of wealthy and wealthy people who should not have worked for 12-16 hours. But the children of the poorest classes worked on an equal footing with adults, receiving wages less than 10 times. And for what would they pay? They can’t wear such weights? The concept of children was not, so ..... inferior adults. It follows from this that over the centuries there has been a situation of the most cruel exploitation of the working classes without the right and the possibility of improving their lives in any way.
                      Soviet power has changed absolutely all this terrible life.
                      1. verner1967
                        verner1967 4 January 2018 12: 34
                        0
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        should have been working for 12-16 hours. But the children of the poorest classes worked on an equal footing with adults, receiving wages less than 10 times. And for what would they pay? They can’t wear such weights? The concept of children was not, so ..... inferior adults. It follows from this that over the centuries there has been a situation of the most cruel exploitation of the working classes without the right and the possibility of improving their lives in any way.

                        it's you now about the collective farms of the 20-40s, very similar. good
                  2. badens1111
                    badens1111 2 January 2018 15: 04
                    +3
                    Quote: Reptiloid
                    Thank you for writing such a great comment!

                    Not at all. Happy New Year and every success in all areas of activity!
                    And this, the analyst, why is howling around, is not entirely on the topic being examined, but this opponent is on the side of these screaming all sorts of nonsense.
                    https://kprf.ru/analytics/vybory-prezidenta-anali
                    tika-mneniia-prognozy-obzor-publikatsii-pechatnyk
                    hi-elektronnykh-smi-24-30-dekabria-2017-goda.ht
                    ml
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 2 January 2018 19: 52
                      +3
                      Vlad! Unfortunately, I can’t guess what is needed and do not make bookmarks, but how what should be ---- I’m not prepared, and I often write not at home. And sooner. Therefore, I really appreciate the great informative comments and statistics. Happy New Year to you too!
          2. verner1967
            verner1967 2 January 2018 10: 05
            0
            Quote: avva2012
            Hamim military?

            this is where, show, and I apologize
            Quote: avva2012
            You talk in vain about logic

            so I talk about your logic or
            Quote: avva2012
            what kind of beast is this, you do not know?
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 2 January 2018 11: 10
              +2
              this is where, show, and I apologize

              You do not change. Moreover, those whom you water, they do not care.
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 2 January 2018 11: 32
                0
                Quote: avva2012
                Moreover, those whom you water, they do not care.

                a set of words ... are you talking about someone, or is there essentially nothing to say?
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 2 January 2018 17: 03
                  +2
                  For you, of course, a set of words. Understanding is not your specialty.
                  1. verner1967
                    verner1967 2 January 2018 19: 31
                    0
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Understanding is not your specialty.

                    yeah, I'm not a psychotherapist, much less a psychiatrist ...
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 04: 35
                      +2
                      yeah, I'm not a psychotherapist, much less a psychiatrist ...
                      Why? Very similar, only from jokes about them.
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 3 January 2018 13: 03
                        +1
                        Quote: avva2012
                        yeah, I'm not a psychotherapist, much less a psychiatrist ...
                        Why? Very similar, only from jokes about them.
                        Probably similar to a headache who presents himself as someone else. Though reluctant to have to study his comments, they are very suspicious in some way. On the one hand, this is not a “cat manul”, but something very familiar ... It’s ridiculous to say that, in my opinion, it displaces olgovich ????? !!!!! Competition, Mlyn! Bedbug war with worms --- and read to us !!! There is no good article to read! I got their trend !!!
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 3 January 2018 16: 01
                        +2
                        To this article, as many as 4 sparing Germans commentators left conscientious appeals! Bad example contagious ?? WHAT, will they unite in a choir or something?
                        How about WWII article ---- so on purpose.
                      3. verner1967
                        verner1967 4 January 2018 12: 32
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Very similar,

                        Yes, and often do you communicate with them? I see that often and how, find their understanding? lol
              2. verner1967
                verner1967 2 January 2018 11: 48
                0
                By the way, is it your way of distorting words like this or you really have difficulty reading:
                Quote: verner1967
                i will apologize

                Quote: avva2012
                don't change

                Quote: Captain Nemo
                Without diminishing that horror

                Quote: avva2012
                Don’t beg

                request
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 2 January 2018 17: 04
                  +3
                  A good student from Olgovich appeared.
                  1. verner1967
                    verner1967 2 January 2018 19: 31
                    0
                    Quote: avva2012
                    A good student from Olgovich appeared.

                    and do you like learning from him?
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 2 January 2018 20: 03
                      +4
                      Quote: verner1967
                      you like learning from him

                      Judging by the lies with which you operate, you are definitely one company with olgovich.
                      So do not be shy, admit at least to yourself that the laurels of Solzhenitsyn or any other liar, even olgovich, are a dubious mark ... if not tougher.
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 2 January 2018 22: 00
                        +3
                        They have a different payment system. What can be seen from the comments. It is interesting to watch their competition. Maybe age is very different. How much all dishonesty crawled out. By the election or what? Or just missed and went into business?
                      2. verner1967
                        verner1967 2 January 2018 22: 59
                        0
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Judging by the lies with which you operate

                        it’s just you
                      3. verner1967
                        verner1967 4 January 2018 12: 42
                        +1
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Judging by the lies with which you operate
                        what are you operating with?
                        Quote: badens1111
                        The first Soviet census, conducted in 1926, showed that over 4 years the country's population had increased by 10 million people. and reached 147 million people.
                        don't you find it strange, to say the least? The first Soviet census in 1926 showed that in 4 years ... how is it? Where does the data for 1922 come from? Or was there no census, or was there no Soviet power?
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 January 2018 04: 09
                      +1
                      and do you like learning from him?

                      Like a veteran. In the words of others, like .... Faberge.
      2. Monarchist
        Monarchist 3 January 2018 10: 17
        +3
        I "osmontaniya" Urengoytsev to one place. Just one doldon flashed about what I think his dad and mom. In a certain sense, I agree with you, but: "all Germans of a conscious age, except anti-fascists, are directly or indirectly guilty" is a little too much: "the Nazis come and go, but the German people remain" remember who said that?
        In the army of the GDR, more than 60% of the officers served in the Wehrmacht. The commander of the tank troops in the GDR was a former officer of the Regiment "dead head" and he studied in the sixties at the Soviet Academy of the General Staff. The veteran of state security told me about this, it seems there was a publication in the Komsomol
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 4 January 2018 00: 52
          0
          Not too much, almost everyone went by themselves, no one drove.
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 4 January 2018 12: 48
            0
            Quote: DalaiLama
            almost everyone went by themselves, no one drove.

            not justifying the Germans, but still they only went to the SS, and there was a call to the Wehrmacht in Germany. And not all were cannibals.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 4 January 2018 18: 43
              +1
              Almost all Germans accepted the war with enthusiasm, and few people cleared calls, everyone wanted zemstvos and slaves in the east. Some of the first succeeded.
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 4 January 2018 19: 46
                0
                Quote: DalaiLama
                and few people cleared calls

                Yes, it’s hard to slope there, it was all the more so, the nation was obedient, they said it arrived. I had in mind about volunteers. And who could, he enjoyed the benefits.
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 4 January 2018 20: 12
                  0
                  Who could listen to Goebbels who tried to get to the front, because then benefits were supposed to be such when sharing.
                  1. verner1967
                    verner1967 4 January 2018 20: 53
                    0
                    Quote: DalaiLama
                    because then benefits were supposed to be such when sharing.

                    birch cross for example laughing In 1995, when “voluntarily” recruited to Chechnya, we were also lured with benefits, but many reports were thrown onto the table and they weren’t afraid of ships.
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 4 January 2018 21: 56
                      +1
                      Crosses seriously and without crosses began only in the Stalingrad cauldron, then they fought and gave up little because they were afraid of revenge.
                      Brain clarification after Kursk and the Dnieper was hindered by drugs, in 1945 everyone who could go surrendered to the West to the Americans, where they were then starved to death.
  19. Don Analyst
    Don Analyst 1 January 2018 19: 58
    +2
    "Stalingrad Madonna" - you can give another name - "The evolution of the German nation."
    From Supernation to Homo sapiens!
    As Hitler said: "We must get rid of the chimera of conscience."
    From a being without conscience to a Christian!
  20. Altona
    Altona 2 January 2018 12: 01
    +4
    Quote: Monster_Fat
    The case of Kolya once again characterizes Russia as a hateful, chauvinistic state, incapable of any understanding of the profound changes in the field of humanism that are taking place throughout civilized humanity .... "

    -------------------------------------
    What are these "profound changes in the field of humanism" that have occurred there? They didn’t let the disabled girl from Russia go to Eurovision, they didn’t let the Russian Paralympic athletes go to the Paralympics, they humiliate Russian athletes in violation of international conventions. Undoubtedly, here humanism triumphs.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. Brigadier
    Brigadier 2 January 2018 13: 58
    +5
    Satisfied with the death of ALL Hitler's soldiers in the Stalingrad boiler! Nobody called these creatures to us. They themselves came and received what Hitler promised them - the land (and they fertilized it well) ...
    The only bad thing is that they gave up too early, there were too many of them still alive ... We should have taken them a little later, then there would have been no one left, and they would have been a complete Hitler kaput!
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 2 January 2018 18: 29
      0
      Late in fact, they surrendered, which is why out of 91 thousand captured even on enhanced rations more than 5000 survived. This is according to German data. There, almost all were already frostbite and wounded dystrophics.
    2. avva2012
      avva2012 3 January 2018 04: 56
      +4
      Satisfied with the death of ALL Hitler's soldiers in the Stalingrad boiler! Nobody called these creatures to us.

      You have superfluous, colleague, "in the Stalingrad boiler", you just need to, "satisfied" and "ALL". ALL of them who were on the Eastern Front. For them:




  23. Taoist
    Taoist 2 January 2018 19: 30
    +1


    Suitable by the way "demotivator" on the topic ...
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 2 January 2018 23: 20
      0
      Gothic-s ... Demonovator of the year.
  24. verner1967
    verner1967 2 January 2018 22: 41
    0
    Quote: badens1111
    The breadth of your knowledge in statistics strictly tends to zero, and likewise, your mathematical calculation of knowledge is equal to zero, what are you trying to talk about?
    and who are the judges? Go to sleep as a proxy from statistics laughing
  25. verner1967
    verner1967 2 January 2018 22: 56
    +1
    Quote: badens1111
    The first Soviet census, conducted in 1926, showed that over 4 years the country's population had increased by 10 million people. and reached 147 million people.
    It is interesting to note that the indicators of population reproduction in 1926 were better than in 1913.

    Yeah, yeah, I willingly believe
    Quote: badens1111
    The first Soviet census, conducted in 1926,
    if it is the first, then what figures did it start from, comparing population growth or was it not the Soviet regime in the 22nd year?
    After 1905, Russia's well-being improved significantly, by 1913 the picture was completely different than in 1898, so why, with the general deterioration of medical care, hunger, epidemics, civil war, the birth rate increased ??? As one character from the Mimino movie said: “Think, then speak!” Without brains, it’s easier to live. laughing And who considered the representatives of the “former” in the 20s shot without trial or investigation?
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 2 January 2018 23: 17
      +1
      They shot anyone even for three spikelets or without them if something did not like.
  26. verner1967
    verner1967 2 January 2018 23: 20
    0
    Quote: badens1111
    At the same time, dear, you are always “shy” to admit

    but you are not shy about lying
    Years Population of Russia, million people

    1897
    within the borders of the Russian Empire 128,2
    within modern borders 67,5
    1914
    within the borders of the Russian Empire 165,7
    within modern borders 89,9
    1917 91,0
    1926 92,7
    1939 108,4
    1959 117,2
    1988 146,0
    1989 147,0
    1990 147,7
    1991 148,3
    1996 148,3
    2010 142,9
    2011 142,9
    2012 143,0
    2013 143,3
    2014 143,7
    2015 146,3
    2016 146,5
    pay attention to the growth from 1917 to 1926, from 1926 to 1939 and compare the growth for the same period 1897 to 1914
    Data are given: 1897 - according to the first general census on February 9, 1926 - according to the census on December 17, 1939 and 1979. - according to the census on January 17, 1959 and 1970. - according to the census on January 15, 1989 - according to the census on January 12, 2002 - according to the census on October 9, 2010 - according to the census on October 14, for other years - the estimate for January 1 of the corresponding year. 1897, 1914, 1917, 1926, 1939 - the current population, over the next years - the permanent population. Data as of January 1, 2004-2009 recounted taking into account the results of the 2010 All-Russian Population Census.

    Source of information: Federal State Statistics Service
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 2 January 2018 23: 24
      +1
      The Serbs had a song before the PMV "We and the Russians 200 million."
      1. verner1967
        verner1967 3 January 2018 09: 31
        0
        Quote: DalaiLama
        The Serbs song was before the PMV "Us and the Russians 200 million"

        "... and without the Russian half-truck!" There were other interpretations of this song "There are 300 million of us and Russians ..", but we will not focus on the songs of semi-literate Serbs.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 4 January 2018 00: 54
          0
          It is clear that you will focus on your own (nieder mit dem serben, etc).
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 4 January 2018 12: 50
            0
            Quote: DalaiLama
            (nieder mit dem serben, etc).

            and the translation?
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 4 January 2018 18: 45
              0
              Google will translate.
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 4 January 2018 19: 48
                0
                Quote: DalaiLama
                Google will translate.

                I thought - you, as a native speaker ...
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 4 January 2018 20: 14
                  0
                  Schweik thought with Yaroslav Hasek
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. verner1967
    verner1967 3 January 2018 09: 55
    0
    Quote: badens1111
    The first Soviet census, conducted in 1926, showed that over 4 years the country's population had increased by 10 million people. and reached 147 million people.
    The next census of the country was carried out in 1939. It showed that the number of inhabitants of the USSR increased to 170,6 million people, i.e. increased by 23,5 million people.
    it is according to your data
    The population of Russia, million people - 1897
    within the borders of the Russian Empire 128,2
    within modern borders 67,5
    - 1914 city
    within the borders of the Russian Empire 165,7
    within modern borders 89,9 According to the Federal State Statistics Service.

    Total difference between 1914 and 1939 we receive only about 5 million people. with an estimated 198,78 well, where else are 33 million lost? Well, yes, there you said something about losses within 3 million, there remains another 30 million, and if you still take into account more than one and a half times the coefficient of natural growth (in your words), then 45 million are lost. I’m sitting, I think, who is the greater liar, Solzhenitsyn or you, dear? And again, this notorious first census of 1926 after the nonexistent census of 1922 .... from which finger did you suck this information out?
    1. chenia
      chenia 3 January 2018 19: 24
      +2
      Quote: verner1967
      I’m sitting, I think, who is the greater liar, Solzhenitsyn or you, dear?


      Here is another accountant. And you think again.

      In 1918, there were 1702-174 million in the former Ingushetia.
      To not count twice.
      Gone - Privislensky provinces and to the Curzon line, Kars - population - 12,5 million
      Arrived - Transcarpathia, Galicia and Bukovina, Khakassia - 8,5 million
      The rest left - came (Baltic, Bessarabia, Western Belarus, etc.)
      Hence the estimated population of 1918 170 million people

      Let's make a calculation for 1960 - when there certainly were no repressions and famines.
      Growth for 20-60 UK years 35%, France40% , Italy45%, Bulgaria-70%, (the dependence on industrialization and urbanization is obvious).

      In 1922 abortion was allowed in the Soviet republics (almost the first in Europe), in 1941 the urban population was 33%, in 1960 in the USSR the urban population was equal to the rural population by -50%.
      USSR - Industrialized country, we take the projected growth 40 years before 65% (maybe less).
      It turned 280 million for 1960

      In 1959, we are really 209 млн. and hence the estimated total losses do not exceed 70 million people. (This total loss - died, emigrated, and were not born from losses). And all without taking into account natural mortality.
      where 38 million WWII losses - 27 млн. loss of real people
      25-23 mln died 2-4 million - emigration, 11 млн. unborn
      .
      Hence for 1960 loss from WWII-40 million(2-3 million unborn from losses over 15 years (45-60g.)).
      Then on for a period of 1918 to 1960 (of course, there is an error here) 40 years (excluding WWII). Accounted for. 70-40 = 30 million losses.
      Of them
      Civil Losses -16 million
      unborn from losses in 1960 (60%) - 10 million
      From here (30 -16 - 10 = 4) on famines and repression remains - 4 - 6 million (and no more)

      Civil War Losses
      4,5 million emigration
      5 million- pandemic (Spanish) .- 3%
      6,5 - Victims of the war - direct deaths in the Civil, increased mortality from life deterioration, decreased fertility (unborn) typhus, etc.

      That 4-6 million. and there are losses from repression, so Solzhenitsyn liar

      And here at shit losses over 25 years - 60-79 million
      help to count, or think for yourself.
      1. Dalailama
        Dalailama 4 January 2018 00: 56
        +1
        All revolutions and wars are made for the sake of loss. From the repression of 240 thousand, from the revolution and red terror, tens of millions. More than in WWI and WWII.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 4 January 2018 07: 26
          +1
          Quote: DalaiLama
          from revolution and red terror tens of millions. More than in WWI and WWII.

          Yes, cut the truth, the womb .... billions - some commies were shot several times, especially those whom the white people hung ...
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 4 January 2018 10: 07
            +1
            And a lot of whites hung? From a gun and chemical weapons from airplanes it turned out faster.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 4 January 2018 10: 19
              0
              Ah, poor unfortunate whites and Nagans they didn’t have, and they drank tanks then ... but about eroplanes with armored trains, generally byad ....
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 4 January 2018 10: 38
                +1
                Well, the Italian fascists also watered with mustard gas the Ethiopians, also Orthodox.
                White 10ki million was not. The poor unfortunate were ordinary peasants. Those who temporarily survived from the Red Terror the Trotskyites-Bronsteinists drove into collective farms or in the labor army. Where periodically thinned out until Stalin himself came to them all.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 4 January 2018 10: 49
                  0
                  ................................
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 4 January 2018 10: 57
                    +1
                    it feels like he hasn’t reached you yet.
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 4 January 2018 11: 02
                      0
                      It feels like you think that you only have access to the Internet ... and the rest of the orphaned and poor do not know how to read, nor do they use poskoviks.
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 4 January 2018 11: 04
                        +1
                        This is not an excuse for you.
                    2. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 4 January 2018 11: 13
                      0
                      And why did you decide that I was acquitted? Did megalomania suggest? Or did the whispering voices about billions of shot people tell?
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 4 January 2018 18: 47
                        +1
                        Come up with some, when it comes to handy.
                2. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 4 January 2018 18: 57
                  0
                  Dalailama,
                  Quote: DalaiLama
                  Come up with some, when it comes to handy.

                  Fantasy is yours .. Although some kind of nonsense is standard ..
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 4 January 2018 20: 15
                    0
                    So not useful, for lack of.
      2. verner1967
        verner1967 4 January 2018 12: 13
        0
        Quote: chenia
        In 1918, there were 1702-174 million in the former Ingushetia.

        before I continue to read your writings, where does the population number come from in 1918, if the first census was in 1926? And then I read one, so he even has data for 1922, although he himself claims that the first census in 1926 was.
      3. verner1967
        verner1967 4 January 2018 12: 25
        0
        Quote: chenia
        In 1918, there were 1702-174 million in the former Ingushetia.

        Before comprehending your labors, tell me, where did the data for 1918 come from? I read one writer here, so he had his first census in 1926, and he has the data for 1922, I ask him where he is silent. But there is a number of 147 million people (the official number of the census for 1926) is already losing 1918 million from your number in 23 and using the same growth rate we get losses of more than 10 million people.
        Quote: chenia
        So for 1960, losses from the Second World War-40 million.

        but for such data the adherents of communism will erase you laughing
      4. verner1967
        verner1967 4 January 2018 14: 10
        0
        Quote: chenia
        That's 4-6 million and there are losses from repressions, so Solzhenitsyn is a liar

        so the matter is not only in repressions, there was still the red terror of the 20s that went unaccounted for, the famine of the 20s and 30s, the civil war and devastation with hunger and epidemics, the unborn population as a result of this. It is necessary to add all this according to Solzhenitsyn, for all this is a derivative of the 17th year. So he’s not such a liar.
        1. chenia
          chenia 4 January 2018 15: 30
          0
          Quote: verner1967
          1918 if the first census was in 1926?


          Well, I asked you to think, and you just read, without understanding, you see too humanitarian education.

          I’ll try to explain (if possible) ..

          For calculations, the reference digit is always needed.
          If in 1914 the population was 166 million. (without Finland). then for 1918 it will be no more than 174 млн. (taking into account the pre-war average annual growth, losses in the WWI, the decrease in the birth rate (10 millionmen under arms 4 млн. in captivity, 0,8-1,6 million dead).

          I think 174 млн (already former RI) on 1918 no dispute. (You can refute, but only the arguments).

          But we need the given figure, since part of the population with territories fell off the country (i.e., only the one that entered the USSR).

          So we are joining Galicia, etc. (see above). with a population of 1918 - 8,5 млн[i] [/ i], and we take away the Russian part of Poland, etc. -12,5 million

          From this we get the original reduced figure - no more than 170 million people.

          And then by comparison (I gave the percentage of growth of some countries, and explained the dependence of growth on certain factors). on 1960/XNUMX/XNUMX (with a significant increase of 65% - it could be somewhat smaller) should have been no more 280 million
          this is not taking into account disasters, but taking into account the development of the country)

          а in 1959. we were (this is the official census) -209 million

          Must be 280 млн. It was 209 million losses will be 70 million (this is taking into account emigration and unborn from losses).

          Well, then carefully read the losses by category (see above), there are arguments-object.
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 4 January 2018 15: 51
            0
            Quote: chenia
            For calculations, the reference digit is always needed.

            you have too much humanitarian education, this "mythical reference figure" (invented by you), the reference number (and not a figure, to see a humanitarian education does not allow you to understand the difference between these concepts) can only be census data. so I operate with them and my arguments are the numbers of census data from different years. And there is nothing to breed arithmetic in which you can hardly, judging by the "numbers"
            1. chenia
              chenia 4 January 2018 17: 55
              +1
              Quote: verner1967
              And there is nothing to breed arithmetic in which you can hardly, judging by the "numbers"


              Clear! The arguments are comprehensive. Engineering slang is far for you, and there you will hear not such momentum. You are our linguist. But to refute weakly, or you are only about the form. and the content is not your hobby.

              You, through fraud from private to general, want to powder your brains, throw out a lot of information by years, hours, seconds to hide the main thing.

              And I immediately showed the maximum number of losses, and refute you are not able to. and essentially you have nothing to argue with except common phrases.
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 4 January 2018 19: 53
                0
                Quote: chenia
                A little refute

                see comments above, or you are also inattentive, you are our engineer slang
                Quote: chenia
                You, through fraud from private to general, want to powder your brains, throw out a lot of information by years, hours, seconds to hide the main thing.

                my young friend, it’s just you who is doing it, to consider the losses of the 20-30s based on the data of the 90s is how to get tonsils through the anus. There are exact numbers of censuses of 1897, 1913, 1926 and 1939, cited by an official source, the one that deals with this, and it is necessary to “dance” from them. Show magic tricks with numbers to another public.
                1. chenia
                  chenia 4 January 2018 20: 22
                  +1
                  Quote: verner1967
                  my young friend


                  Boy, I'm 63 years old.

                  Quote: verner1967
                  There are exact numbers of censuses of 1897, 1913, 1926 and 1939,


                  And how it contradicts my calculations.
                  If the 1914 - there were 166 million then in 1918 -172-174 million quite naturally. Say it is not.

                  You do not want to argue, because you have no arguments. And you begin to provoke an opponent.
                  1. verner1967
                    verner1967 4 January 2018 20: 56
                    0
                    Quote: chenia
                    Boy, I'm 63 years old.

                    you see, wisdom comes with age, age has come to you alone request
                    1. chenia
                      chenia 4 January 2018 21: 04
                      0
                      You base a lot not on the merits and how you turn on a spindle louse, more specifically on the merits- the population of the former RI (without Finland) can be- 172-174 million in 1918 city
                      And do not jump off trying to insult your opponent.

                      YES or NO (if not, why?)
                      1. verner1967
                        verner1967 4 January 2018 21: 18
                        0
                        Quote: chenia
                        YES or NO (if not, why?)

                        the question is not to me, but to the federal agency of statistics, I believe them more than your calculations.
                        1897 within the borders of the Russian Empire 128,2
                        within modern borders 67,5
                        1914 within the borders of the Russian Empire 165,7
                        within modern borders 89,9
                        1917 91,0
                        1926 92,7
                        1939 108,4
                        compare population growth
  29. verner1967
    verner1967 4 January 2018 12: 11
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    Something lately, the number of lies and filth in the comments has been increasing, or is there a little groaning, so that there would be less readers, or fewer comments?
    the plot is brewing, no less .... sorry no one scribble denunciation request ABOUT! and you scribble a complaint on the site, maybe a shot .., ugh, will be banned. Incidentally, the lack of competition leads to stagnation, and stagnation led to the collapse of the USSR. We must fight for pluralism of opinions, so it seems that the last Secretary General of the CPSU bequeathed to you. tongue
    1. chenia
      chenia 4 January 2018 22: 00
      0
      Already not glued.
      Quote: verner1967
      1914 within the borders of the Russian Empire 165,7


      By the way, it’s not very true (this is without Finland).

      Well, you have agreed, according to the growth over 4 years and minus the losses and the decrease in the birth rate, a population growth of 6-8 million is natural. Where is the crime? What does not match?

      And if so, you can determine the population within the borders of the future USSR. (Poland in the negative, Bukovina, Galicia in the plus. And all sorts of other Moldova and Lithuania, both left and entered, why the heck to count them twice) here Google to help.

      Then 170 million in 1918 definitely coming out. And where is the discrepancy?
  30. verner1967
    verner1967 4 January 2018 12: 36
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    There is no good article to read!
    so read, who does not give you?
    Quote: Reptiloid
    I got their trend !!!
    so don’t read, who is pulling your ears?
  31. Romin
    Romin 6 January 2018 13: 30
    +1
    What the "bastards" felt Light, Life and Love, as soon as death loomed on the horizon. Tails tucked up and began to pray, the commandments were remembered also by God. The fuckers! It became scary to die, It became a pity for loved ones!
    And how they started in the 41st, fun, but with harmonica ...
    It was not scary to rip open bellies of wounded Soviet soldiers, it was fun to hang soldiers and carry nurses - their mother was not remembered about God there. The Wehrmacht - the regular armed forces of Germany violated the international convention on prisoners of war and this is a fact, and then the poor people whined: cold, hungry, hopelessness - jackals, not people. I did not feel any admiration for the Germans and despise compatriots who are looking for idols in this nation.
    I believe that the Wehrmacht soldiers received little for inhuman atrocities.
    Khrushchev's mistake was that he returned the legally convicted German war criminals after concluding a peace treaty with the FRG.
    My grandfather passed the whole war, told a lot of things about what he saw!
    But by virtue of this, it is evident that not from the Ivan fools who do not even respect themselves, never
    I didn’t forgive these! And I do not forgive them. Although our authorities kept hiding information about atrocities all the time, and V.V. Putin is a Germanophile. The only good news is that the peoples of Russia Remember! And this memory cannot be erased!
    You must respect yourself, and not look into the mouth of others and admire! And how Ivan fools to play forgiveness!
    But the scum who attacked us in 41 little punished.
  32. Mavr-85
    Mavr-85 April 3 2018 09: 28
    0
    And how many of these IT killed children in Stalingrad .. and not only !?