Military Review

Great Scythia and superethnos Rus. H. 2

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Great Scythia and superethnos Rus. H. 2

In the first part of the article Great Scythia and superethnos Rus it was noted that the Scythian state had a state-communal system. Moreover, this state was of imperial type, but not unitary, but “federative”. It was a complex hierarchical structure that included tribal communities, tribes, and tribal unions (“lands”). But, as it is known, the process of decomposition and degradation is as natural as the birth and growth of a state. The third period of the domination of the Scythians in Eurasia came to an end to the 4 century BC. er By this time, the Scythian state (its western, Black Sea part) was transformed into a hereditary class monarchy with the ruling nobility, which was under the strong influence of Greek culture. This led to the fall of the Scythian ruling elite. In 2 century BC. er Sarmatians-savromats moved from the Volga and the Don to the west, to the Black Sea region and crushed the kingdom of the Scythians. In the civilization of the North began the Sarmatian period.


Sarmatian Kingdom (400 BC - 200 AD)

Sarmatians advanced from the Urals to the Don for the Scythians around 7 c. BC er They were relatives of the Scythians - they spoke the dialect of the Scythian language, they were united by the similarity of material and spiritual culture. For a long time, Sarmatians and Scythians were peaceful neighbors, were trading, Sarmatian troops participated in the wars of the Scythians. Together they repel the invasion of the Persian hordes of Darius.

The name "Sarmatians" in one of the versions means "feminine". They bore this name because of the high role of women "Amazons" in society. This was not the case for the Mediterranean and other southern countries. In principle, an equal position with men in work, war, social and political life was characteristic of all Scythian "tribes". Women on a par with men participated in wars, were excellent riders, shooters, throwers darts. In Scythians and Sarmatians, stable pair marriages prevailed, where both man and woman had the right to divorce. Often women led the clans, tribes and territorial-political formations. So, roughly to 6-5 centuries. BC er The period of rule of the legendary queen of the Sarmatians Zarina belongs. Her capital was hail Roskanak. Another queen of the Scythians-Saks (Massagets) Tomiris in the 6 century BC. er crushed the troops of Cyrus the Great and "gave him drink of blood."

The Sarmatians made another revolution in military affairs — if the Cimmerians and the Scythians had light cavalry as the basis of the army, the Sarmatians created heavy cavalry. Their cataphracts (heavily armed horsemen) were protected by shells. The warrior and his horse were protected by scaled or plate armor. On arms was a powerful 4-4,5 m spear, longer than the Scythians sword. In battle, the Sarmatians combined tactics of Scythian horse archers with a ram attack into the enemy front armored cataphracts.

From 4 century BC. er Sarmatian era begins in stories South Russia. Although the weakened Scythian kingdom lasted for two centuries in the Black Sea region and even more in the Crimea. "The Island of Crimea" for a long time kept a fragment of the former Scythian kingdom. And the Crimean Scythia fairly quickly entered into a common political system with the Sarmatian kingdom. If originally the Crimean Scythians built the Perekopian Moat and the rampart, which separated the peninsula from the steppe, then these fortifications were completely abandoned. But in the south there was a new system of fortifications, which covered the capital of the Crimean Scythia - Naples, from a possible strike from the sea. Another part of the Scythian military-political elite retreated to Dacia, to the territory of the northern Danube region. The era of the complete domination of the Sarmatians of the South Russian steppes corresponds to the Prokhorov archaeological culture (2 BC. BC - 2 BC. E.). It is impossible to say that the Sarmatians completely exterminated and expelled the Scythians, as in the case of the Scythian-Cimmerian conflict, only the upper ruling structures were replaced. The main part of the Scythians joined the new state community.

Sarmatian kingdom united several major territorial associations. Roksalans and tongues occupied the Black Sea (between the Don and the Dnieper - Roksolans, to the west of them - between the Dnieper and the Danube - the Yazygians lived), Aorses - the Azov Sea, the lower reaches of the Don, Siraki - the Eastern Azov Sea, the Kuban, the Alans - the North Caucasus. Around the beginning of 2 c. n er Alans seized power in Sarmatia and since that time most of the region’s inhabitants began to bear their name.

It should be noted that the historian Dmitry Ilovaysky (1832 — 1920) identified Roksolan with Russia, including them as Slavs. Earlier, M. V. Lomonosov (1711 - 1765) made such an offer, he wrote that "... it is known about the Alans and Vends from the above that they are Slavic and Rossan single-tribal." The eminent historian George Vernadsky (1888-1973) put forward the hypothesis that the Roxolans, which remained in Eastern Europe in the 4th — 8th centuries. n e., became the basis of the people of the Dos (Rus), and formed the Russian Kaganate. Thus, even before the arrival of the Vikings-Rus, headed by Rurik in 862, a Russian state was created in the south, which inherited the traditions - Alan-Sarmatians and Scythians.

In addition, it must be said that Sarmatia inherited from Scythia not only the land of the steppe zone in southern Russia, although there was a “control center” there. Ancient sources report that Sarmatians inhabited the forest zone of the future Russia. Their possessions stretched far to the north, up to the tundra of the Arctic. There are many indications that Sarmatians inhabited the territory of Belarus, Central Russia. For all ancient authors, starting with Tacitus and Ptolemy, the possessions of the Sarmatians began from the Vistula and extended up to the Volga and beyond.

It should be understood that if earlier the names "Scythians" and "Sarmatians" were territorial parts of a single culture, people, then they began to be used as synonyms for the entire people of Great Scythia (and then Sarmatia).

In the Sarmatian era, the influence of the civilization of the North again increased. Sarmatians repelled the onslaught of the Roman Empire on the western frontiers and actively intervened in the affairs of the Balkan-Asia Minor region. Relatives of the Scythians - Saki-Parthians in the 3 century BC. er defeated the Seleucidic Hellenistic Empire and conquered Persia. The Northern Black Sea and Azov regions were covered with a network of cities and fortresses. South Russian steppes became the largest grain exporter to Mediterranean policy cities. This suggests that the Sarmatians, like the Scythians, were not only "nomads", they were also skilled landowners. Advances in science and metallurgy allowed to make a revolution in military affairs.

The turn of the new era was the time of the maximum power of Sarmatia. In the west, the Sarmatian possession border ran along the Vistula and the Danube, in the south, under the control of Scythian-Sarmatians, there was almost South Asia - from Persia and India to northern China. The Baltic Sea at that time was called the Scythian, or Sarmatian Sea. Proud Rome was forced to pay roksalans tribute to peace. She was paid even by the most powerful emperors — Traian and Adrian.



Scythians-Sarmatians and Russians

Alans – Sarmatians in 4 century BC. er still inhabited vast expanses of forest-steppe and steppe zones. Historical sources also have references to them in the 5-7 centuries. The material culture of the southern Russian steppes I mil. N. er also reveals continuity with respect to previous times. Archaeologists have found mounds similar to those of more ancient times, treasures. In the 7 century, archaeological cultures appear on the territory of the East European Plain, which most researchers refer to as Slavic. Russia and the Ruses replace Sarmatia-Alania and Sarmatian-Alans.

This is already enough to understand that there is a direct connection between the Slavic Russians and the Sarmatians (Alans), the continuity of the generations of the ancient civilization of the “northern barbarians”. But, we are told that most of the Alans were exterminated during the Great Migration of Peoples (as before they “destroyed” the pre-Cimmerian population, the Cimmerians, the Scythians and the Sarmatians). Part of the Alans fell into the whirlpools of the resettlement, and left its traces in Central and Western Europe, up to modern Spain and Britain (even Arthur and his knights may have been from Alan Sarmatian). The other part was entrenched in the strongholds of the North Caucasus, their descendants are considered modern Ossetians.

Where did the main part of Alan-Sarmatian go? The people, who according to the Roman author Ammianus Marcellinus, who still in the 4 century AD populated the expanses from the Danube to the Ganges. Studies by anthropologists show that the “steppe”, Scythian-Sarmatian component was of paramount importance in the formation of the modern Russian people. According to academician, historian and anthropologist, director of the Institute of Archeology of the USSR Academy of Sciences in V.N. Alekseev, 1987 — 1991, “there is no doubt that most of the population who lived in the southern Russian steppes in the middle of 1 thousand BC. er is the physical ancestors of the Eastern Slavic tribes of the Middle Ages ". A "Scythian" anthropological type, in turn, shows continuity from the time of at least the Bronze Age - III - II thousand BC. er These data were obtained on the basis of methods that allow to identify the anthropological type of not only two different nations, but also different groups within the same ethnic group. The conclusion from the above is one: modern Russians (superethnos of the Rus, which includes Great Russians, Little Russians, and White Russians, and other smaller groups) are the direct descendants of the Indo-Europeans, the Aryans of the Bronze Age, the Cimmerians, the Scythians, the Sarmatians, and the Alans.

There is nothing surprising in this. This was discussed by both ancient authors and historians of 18, the beginning of 21, centuries. This truth is not written in history books and is not recognized due to geopolitical reasons. History is written by winners. The ideological heirs of the Mediterranean, southern cultures won over the "northern barbarians" (won a number of battles, but the war continues, the "Russian question" has not yet been finally resolved).

This explains the similarity of the ancient Scythians-Skoles and modern Russians in appearance and mentality. The surviving images and descriptions of contemporaries say one thing: Scythians and Rus were distinguished by rather tall stature and strong build, fair skin, bright eyes and hair (therefore, the “Rus” is “blond, fair-haired”). They are warlike, for centuries surpassed the surrounding nations militarily. Notable for freedom, beauty and freedom of women. Sarmatians, Central Asian saks and Rusas wore the familiar “pot-like” hairstyle, or shaved their heads, leaving their mustaches and chubas, while the Black Sea Scythians had long hair and beards. Even in clothes "Sarmatian style" for a long time was popular with the Slavs. The clothes of the Scythians were not very different from those worn by the Russians almost until the 20 century. This is a long shirt, a caftan with a belt, a cape with a zipper on a chest or one shoulder, wide wide trousers or narrow pants tucked into leather boots. Scythians loved to bathe in the baths.

We know that Scythians and Sarmatians revered two of the most important religious cults - the sun and fire. The god of warriors enjoyed great respect - they worshiped the sword. The Slavorus these cults are almost completely preserved. Remember Svyatoslav and his attitude to arms, military brotherhood, we see similar views among the Scythians.

The images that have come down to us, the portraits of the Scythians convey not only the Russian anthropological type, but even the local subtypes that exist today. For example, a portrait that depicts the supposedly Parthian princess Rodogun (Rodogund) shows the look of a Russian (Great Russian) woman. The portrait of the chubby Queen Dynamics from Bosporus shows a Little Russian (Ukrainian) type of Slav. In one of the kurgans of Southern Siberia, a medallion was found with a portrait of a Caucasoid, with some “cheekiness” and “tangle” in the eyes. These are features of a part of Russian Siberians. And these finds are not one and not two.

The connection of the material culture of the medieval Chernihiv-Seversky principality with the Sarmatian epoch is clearly traced. Women's jewelry - temporal rings, in the Chernihiv region was made in the form of a spiral, and spiral-shaped jewelry, rings, bracelets were widely distributed among the Sarmatian "Amazons". Temporal rings are generally considered a typical Slavic ornament, but they are found among the Sarmatian treasures, and the most ancient belong to the Bronze Age, 2 thousand BC. er

The most important ethnographic feature is the dwelling. Judging by the archaeological excavations in the Crimean Scythia, in Scythian Naples, the late Scythians lived in good-quality stone houses with a tiled roof. The houses were with a gable roof, a vertical arrow was installed on the ridge of the roof, with heads of two horses carved out of wood on their sides, facing in different directions with muzzles. It is very reminiscent of a Russian hut with skates. In another area of ​​the Great Scythia - Altai, they built the same houses, but from wood. Classical chopped was the main dwelling of the Scythians-Siberians. The myth of the "nomads" sits firmly in their heads, but in reality the steppe yurt, the tent - invented by the Scythians, was used only in the summer season. The Scythians were warriors, farmers and herders, and not camps "Gypsies". A good reason was needed for moving into new lands.

There is continuity in ceramics. The main type of vessels is an egg-shaped (hemispherical) pot, it has remained almost unchanged since the days of the Dnieper-Donetsk culture 5 thousand BC. er down to the middle ages. The enduring continuity of material culture, like the anthropological type, can be traced from the time of the Neolithic and Bronze to the Middle Ages. The rite of burial under the mounds can be traced from about from the turn of 4-3 thousand BC. er up to the adoption of Christianity by Rus and even somewhat later (Christianity has long won its position). In addition, burial mounds of different epochs, as a rule, were erected one next to the other, as a result whole “cities” (“fields”) of the dead arose. On some mounds “inlet” burials have been made for thousands of years! As you know, usually aliens, aliens are afraid of the burials of other nations. They can plunder, but they won't bury their dead there. The constancy and continuity of the burial rite throughout the centuries and even millennia suggests that new generations of inhabitants of the southern Russian steppes regarded their predecessors as immediate ancestors. With the change of ethnic groups, and even with a radical cultural breakdown (such as the adoption of Christianity or Islam), such constancy is in principle impossible. The same religious tradition, the funeral rite, was preserved throughout 4 thousand years. Up to the “historical” Slavan-Russian era of the early Middle Ages.

For millennia, people settled in the same places even after major political cataclysms, and settlements were restored. We see this by the example of the history of Russia of the last millennium — destroyed and burned cities and villages were quickly restored at the same place or near.

Identity we see in the social state system. The "kingdom" (empire) consisted of autonomous territorial-political unions- "lands". There were riots and a change of dynasties. The community consisted of personally free people, slavery was not characteristic of the "northern barbarians". Women and men were equal in rights, up to the girls doing military service. We see women in the army of the Rus even during the wars of Svyatoslav Igorevich. But, after baptism, manners "softened" and the girls did not have to kill enemies. Although we see how Slav women defended their cities and villages along with men in more recent times. The type of economy has a great similarity: the Scythians were not “nomads” in the conventional sense, but sedentary (albeit light to the rise) farmers and herders, in the forest zone, great importance was attached to hunting and other fisheries. They built cities, were excellent metallurgists, made a number of scientific and technical revolutions, including military ones. They successfully opposed neighboring states, delivered powerful blows to Ancient Egypt, the Hittite kingdom, the countries of Asia Minor, Assyria, Persia, the Hellenistic powers, the Roman Empire. They had a tremendous impact on the development of Indian and Chinese civilizations.

The archaeologist P. N. Schulz began the excavation of Scythian Naples in 1945, he was the head of the Tauro-Scythian expedition, he is the author of dozens of scientific publications on Scythian-Sarmatian monuments. He believed that in the character of Scythian settlements, dwellings, burial rites, in Scythian paintings, in handicrafts, particularly in dishes, wood carvings, ornaments, in clothes, “we find more and more similarities with the culture and way of life of the ancient Slavs ". The Scythian tribes played a significant role in the process of the formation of the Eastern Slavs and “the ancient Russian culture was not created at all by the Varangians or newcomers from Byzantium, as the western pseudo-scholars asserted this”. Russian culture and Russian superethnos have ancient roots that go back thousands of years. No wonder that Mikhail Lomonosov wrote that among the "ancient ancestors of the current Russian people ... the Scythians make up the last part".

The problem of the Scythian language

At present, it is generally accepted that the Scythians, like the Sarmatians, spoke the languages ​​of the Iranian group of the Indo-European language family. It happens that Sarmatians, Scythians are called "Iranians". This is one of the main obstacles to the recognition of the Scythians, Sarmatians - the direct ancestors of the Russian people. Back in the 19 century, this hypothesis is firmly entrenched in the scientific world. But there are several facts that say that only another myth, created to "circumcise" the roots of Russian civilization.

1) It was announced that the "Scythian language" almost completely disappeared (although it was spoken in the vast space of Great Scythia), but by a small number of personal names, geographical names and remaining words that remained in foreign texts, this language was attributed to the Iranian group . The complete “disappearance” of the language did not prevent it from being attributed to the Iranian group.

2) The priority in the development of the "Iranian-speaking" Scythians entirely belongs to the German linguists 19 - the first half of the 20 century. At this time, German researchers vigorously argued the "primacy" of the Germans in the Indo-European world (they called it Indo-German), only the Germans had to be "true Aryans." This is the heyday of Germanic and, in general, Western “scientific thought”, which proved the priority of Western European peoples, primarily Germanic origin, and the backwardness, “wildness” of Slavs. The story was written under the "blond German beasts." This theory was adopted in Russia, as before, and the "Norman theory." Interestingly, after 1945, the works of German researchers on the subject of “Iranian-speaking” Scythians, and generally the priority of the Germans over other groups of the Indo-European family, ceased. Apparently, the political order disappeared, and the Slavs proved in deed that they were not "second-third-class people."

3) In the USSR, in the 1940-1960-s, quite successful attempts were made to refute the Iranian-speaking theory of the Scythians. But, in the years of "stagnation", "Iranian-speaking" took up. It was in that period of history that we see how “Russianness” leaves the USSR, giving way to cosmopolitanism, Western culture. Apparently, there appears an “order” for the “Norman theory,” “the Iranian-linguality of the Scythians,” the “savagery and backwardness” of the Slavs before the baptism of Russia, etc.

4) “Iranian-like” names of the Scythians that have come down to our time cannot mean that they were “Iranians.” Judging by the modern Russian names, the spaces of Russia are inhabited mainly by Greeks, Romans and Jews! Slavs - Svyatoslav, Yaroslav, Vladimirov, Svetlan, etc., a clear minority. We know that the western part of Scythia was strongly influenced by the Mediterranean (mainly Greek) culture, it became largely cosmopolitan. The Scythians of Central Asia were strongly influenced by Persia, and after the campaigns of Alexander the Great - Hellenization. Still later, the Scythian civilization accepted a significant share of the Turkic element, although it retained basic values.

5) In those words that have come down to us, we see more Indo-European roots than "Iranian" ones. For example, the Scythian word “vira” - “husband, man”, there is an analogue in “Avesta”, but there are also in ancient Rome: “vira” men, duumvirs, triumvirs. The Scythian god of storms and winds Vata has also Indo-European counterparts, Indian Vayu, Celtic Fata Morgana. Scythian "praise" does not need translation. True, even here the supporter of the Iranian-speaking Scythians came up with an answer, they say, the Slavs borrowed words from the Scythians (for example, the word "ax").

6) It turned out that the Ossetians are not direct descendants of the Alan-Sarmatians. Their direct ancestors were local people (autochthonous) who lived in the Caucasus almost from the time of the Upper Paleolithic. The Scythians took control of the Caucasus, and he was under their control for millennia. North Caucasian peoples entered into tight contacts with Scythians and Sarmatians; apparently, small groups of Scythians settled in the Caucasus and were assimilated, but left their more developed language. The Ossetian language experienced the strongest influence. But, it is interesting in that it preserved isogloss (language correspondences), completely alien to the Iranian group. The linguist V. I. Abaev found out that in the Ossetian language there are no connections with the southern Indo-European languages ​​- Greek and Armenian. But, on the other hand, I discovered such connections with the languages ​​of the peoples of Northern Europe and Siberia - German, Latin, Baltic (Lithuanian), and Old Siberian Tokharic. And the most interesting, Abaev discovered the connection of the Ossetian (relics of the Scythian language in the Ossetian language) with the Slavic language and they were stronger than with the languages ​​of other Indo-European peoples. This topic is described in more detail in the works of Abaev: “Ossetian language and folklore”, “Scythian-European isoglosses”. Baev concluded that antiquity, the autochthonousness of the Scythian language in the territory of Southern Russia, and proved that the Scythian language reveals traces of deep connections primarily with the Slavic language.

7) A number of researchers - among them O. N. Trubachev, revealed that the Scythian language has powerful connections with the "Pra-Indian" language, Sanskrit. This is not surprising, the ancestors of the ancient Indians came to the valley of the Indus River, and then reached the Ganges from the territory of modern Russia, Great Scythia. No wonder one of the tribes of Scythia is Sindh. And, in its turn, Sanskrit reveals with all Slavic languages ​​a greater similarity than with the languages ​​of other groups of the Indo-European language family. Sanskrit was brought to India by Aryan tribes around 2 in the millennium BC. er The language of the Vedas, thanks to a tough tradition, was largely preserved to this day. The “Scythian language” is de facto preserved; it is nothing but the “Proto-Aryan language”, the language of the ancient Indian Vedas. There is even an opinion that the modern Russian language is a direct branch of this ancient Aryan language, and Sanskrit is a form of the ancient Russian (Scythian) language.

Results

It is time for modern Russia, its historical science, to stop producing, repeating stereotypes and myths born during the dictates of the Western school, which were praised by “historical peoples”, such as Jews and Germans, and left Slavs at best. We need an analogue of the German Anenerbe ("German Society for the Study of the Ancient German History and Heritage of the Ancestors"), only without mysticism, occultism, the proclamation of the superiority of one nation over others. In schools and universities, it is necessary to study the history of the fatherland in unity, since the days of the Aryan cultures of the pre-Cimmer era. At present, it is possible to establish anthropological and cultural continuity just before this era.

Sources and Literature

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Alekseev S.V., Inca A.A. Scythians. Disappeared lords of the steppes. M, 2010.
Vasilyeva N. I., Petukhov Yu. D. Russian Scythia. M., 2006.
Vernadsky G.V. Ancient Rus. Tver. 1996.
Galanina L.K. Scythian antiquities Dnieper. M., 1977.
Gedeonov S. Varyags and Russia. Exposing the "Norman myth." M., 2011.
Herodotus Story. M., 1993.
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  1. Yoshkin Kot
    Yoshkin Kot April 10 2012 08: 34
    -5
    the case of "baby" and "fomenok" is flourishing! Gentlemen, why are you looking for some evidence of "greatness", etc.? The Russian people do not need this, they have proved their greatness with their real history, their real exploits and do not need to plant mythologemes, after all, we are not "new-made nations" in the vastness of the former USSR
    1. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim April 10 2012 09: 14
      +24
      This is done so that YOUTH, REAL OUR ANCIENT HISTORY, will see it! IF YOU DO NOT DO THIS, YOUNG PEOPLE WILL FINALLY DANGE, BECAUSE THEY EXCEPT ABOUT ABROAD DEVELOPMENT DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING MORE! We must fight for our youth, for our future and otherwise the end. Such a death is worse than a hangman!
      1. AER_69
        AER_69 April 10 2012 09: 31
        -6
        There are much more effective ways to prevent young people from dumbing! You cannot educate her with one story! Let adults begin to educate them normally. Then there will be no problems with alcohol, drugs and debauchery.

        In my opinion, neither the Germans nor the Slavs have anything to do with the Scythians. And I am more than sure that the Aryan roots of the Slavs also do not belong to the Scythians. It's my personal opinion...
        1. OSHA
          OSHA April 10 2012 21: 53
          -2
          AND YOU KNOW THAT ALL PEOPLE OF ONE TYPE aa, so find out at your leisure
      2. zlibeni
        zlibeni April 11 2012 07: 54
        -1
        Moreover, everyone knows that the Scythians have nothing to do with the Slavs. And such articles of the half-myth lead to a loss of identity. And how many versions are there and if they are put one on top of the other, then it will turn out complete nonsense. It would be true and the version would be coincided and laid down one on top of the other, and as a result, it would be possible to draw one conclusion.
        I know at school that there were Slavic tribes, and the Scythians were Scythians. If so, take everything at face value so there is a bright head that the Mongol-Tatars will soon make Russian
        1. Sitev
          Sitev 21 June 2012 15: 04
          0
          There were no Mongol Tatars, these are all inventions of Western scribblers! There is a lot of evidence, you just do not want to see them ... and even in this article there are no less!
      3. Priboi
        Priboi April 12 2012 00: 51
        0
        I agree, an extra lesson in history will never hurt. Especially with the current level of education.
      4. Evrepid
        Evrepid 8 October 2012 12: 00
        0
        That’s exactly worth showing who the Russians really are.
        According to the Norwegian explorer and traveler Thor Heyerdahl, Russians are from Scythian tribes living in the south of the Russian Federation, and the Russian culture spread from the South, and not from the north, as they say now ...

        From the latest data, the DNA of the Cossacks coincides with the DNA of the Norwegians, Swedes ... which says that they are close relatives.
    2. Skills
      April 10 2012 09: 59
      +17
      1) Nobody encroaches on the history of the Rurikovich period, the Romanovs, the USSR. The author respects the achievements of the Russian people of all eras.
      2) Before criticizing, can self-education do something? A very incomplete list of references on this topic is given - these authors have devoted decades to this problem, having learned a lot of archival documents, data on archeology, mythology, linguistics, and other related disciplines. Their findings must be respected. The problem of the origins of Russia raised even M. Orbini in 17. and M. Lomonosov, V. Tatishchev in 18 c.
    3. Miha_Skif
      Miha_Skif April 10 2012 10: 45
      +14
      Great, Alexander, just a SUPER article! fellow
      You feel a deep penetration into the topic, a good study of the material good

      Quote: Yoshkin Cat
      the case of "baby" and "fomenok" is flourishing!

      The article has nothing to do with the creations of Nosovsky, Fomenko and other "pseudo-historians". The information given by Alexander is based on a huge amount of factual material accumulated to date. The Scythian era has been studied quite well in our country, many burial mounds, fortified settlements, settlements have been excavated, and city-states on the Black Sea coast have been investigated. Although the study of the territories as a whole is poor (we have huge spaces, despite the fact that the density of monuments is approximately the same both in Southern Russia and in Europe). And all scientists dealing with this period have a harmonious, consistent picture, in fact, set forth in the article.
      The situation is much worse with the later early Slavic period. There are many excavations, there is no complete picture, and there is no generally accepted point of view on many problems. And this opens up so much scope for the creativity of "pseudo-historians" that mom do not grieve lol
      1. admiral
        admiral April 10 2012 11: 44
        +15
        Quote: Miha_Skif
        room for creativity of "pseudo-historians",

        Pseudo-history is in our school books! According to which now, at the moment, our children are being poisoned! And the persecution is only gaining momentum, the history of the Second World War and the Great Patriotic War, in particular, colorful proof of that!
      2. Igarr
        Igarr April 10 2012 12: 57
        +9
        Hi, hi.
        Yesterday I didn’t answer, today I’ll succeed.
        So I’ll return to the topic of fraud. And then one comrade, skillfully redirecting the flows of pseudoscientific crap, everything requires material evidence.
        So..
        "... Probably it's time to throw off the schoolboy hypnosis about" Ancient Rome "

        Feb. 1st, 2012 at 6: 02 PM

        True, many interested people will not like this ... proof of that is the fate of the scientist ...

        WHO WAS THE ROMANS?
        (retelling of the review by Evgeny Gabovich “What else is there for the Romans?”)

        The Bavarian researcher Gernot Geise published in 1994 the book Who Were the Romans Really ?, in which he concludes that the Romans are most often the usual indigenous inhabitants of Europe: Celts, Gauls and Franks, who have nothing to do with Italy or to Latin culture. Among the evidence is the very name of the city of Rome. G. Gayse discovered that in Europe “ANY large city, somehow connected with the“ Romans ”, was called Rome.” Aachen: “Second Rome”, as well as “Aurea Roma renovata”. Mainz: "Another Rome" (XI-XII centuries), and earlier "Aurea Maguncia Romane". Trier: "Belgian Rome", "Second Rome", "Little Rome", "Northern Rome". The German city of Bamberg was directly called Rome, and on the Swedish island of Gotland, where the Italo-Romans did not take it, there is still a city called Rome. And so - endlessly, throughout Europe! The current capital of Italy, as G. Gaise found out, only in the MIDDLE AGES began to be called Roma quadrata, i.e. Square Rome (Square Kremlin, Square Fortress), and before that Rome was known under the name Palatium. Hence the main conclusion: Ancient Rome could stand anywhere, but not in Italy, to which the history of ancient Rome cannot belong in principle. Simply because the village with the name Palatium for too long did not have this addition in its name - "Rome". It’s clear that it’s not enough to fully understand this, and G. Gaise began to look for the language in which the word “Rome” or its derivatives have a meaningful translation, and it turned out that, in addition to the meanings “Kremlin”, “fortress ", In the ancient Greek language the word" Rome "means" army, army, military unit, armed forces, column. " This means that the "Romans" are not residents of the city of Rome and not citizens of the Roman Empire, but primarily the military, members of the community that the Greeks called "Rom", perhaps the garrison of the ancient Kremlin or fortress itself - any in Europe. .. "
        Link .... http://lena-talaeva.livejournal.com/80465.html ..
        It is worth reading everything. There is also what I’ll talk about later.

        Much current orthodox science attracts Arab authors? Not.
        Why? The library of Alexandria burned out. Or burned?
        Or taken to the Vatican?

        To sit and talk like a wood grouse - about the greatness of Rome, and the greatness of Dr. Greece - based on bullshit ???
        Based on the fake Radziwill annals?

        This is exactly what I want to convey. Approved version - it is approved. She needs to know to study, to teach.
        But, to consider that all other theories are nonsense? And actively prove it? I do not accept this.
        The French Academy of Sciences, "Ivory Tower", in the 18th century ironically decided - there are no stones in the sky. And it can't be.
        And then they began to study meteorites.
        All science is built on negation. Only a few were attached - redirect flows, not seek truth. Meliorator plumbing, Mlyn.

        I think we will still be in contact.
        Firework.
        1. Makhalych
          Makhalych April 10 2012 16: 37
          +1
          Hello again. laughing
          So:

          Quote: Igarr
          WHO WAS THE ROMANS?
          (retelling of the review by Evgeny Gabovich “What else is there for the Romans?”)

          The Bavarian researcher Gernot Geise published in 1994 the book Who Were the Romans Really ?, in which he concludes that the Romans are most often the usual indigenous inhabitants of Europe: Celts, Gauls and Franks, who have nothing to do with Italy or to Latin culture. Among the evidence is the very name of the city of Rome. G. Gayse discovered that in Europe “ANY large city, somehow connected with the“ Romans ”, was called Rome.” Aachen: “Second Rome”, as well as “Aurea Roma renovata”. Mainz: "Another Rome" (XI-XII centuries), and earlier "Aurea Maguncia Romane". Trier: "Belgian Rome", "Second Rome", "Little Rome", "Northern Rome". The German city of Bamberg was directly called Rome, and on the Swedish island of Gotland, where the Italo-Romans did not take it, there is still a city called Rome. And so - endlessly, throughout Europe! The current capital of Italy, as G. Gaise found out, only in the MIDDLE AGES began to be called Roma quadrata, i.e. Square Rome (Square Kremlin, Square Fortress), and before that Rome was known under the name Palatium. Hence the main conclusion: Ancient Rome could stand anywhere, but not in Italy, to which the history of ancient Rome cannot belong in principle. Simply because the village with the name Palatium for too long did not have this addition in its name - "Rome". It’s clear that it’s not enough to fully understand this, and G. Gaise began to look for the language in which the word “Rome” or its derivatives have a meaningful translation, and it turned out that, in addition to the meanings “Kremlin”, “fortress ", In the ancient Greek language the word" Rome "means" army, army, military unit, armed forces, column. " This means that the "Romans" are not residents of the city of Rome and not citizens of the Roman Empire, but primarily the military, members of the community that the Greeks called "Rom", perhaps the garrison of the ancient Kremlin or fortress itself - any in Europe. .. "
          Link .... http://lena-talaeva.livejournal.com/80465.html ..
          It is worth reading everything. There is also what I’ll talk about later.


          I did not hear more delirium. That's terrible !!!
          If you (or this scribbler) believe that Rome was not or was not in Italy, buy a plane ticket and visit the Eternal City. In my opinion, judging ONLY ONLY by some architectural monuments, to say this is a complete fever delirium.
          In addition to the monuments of architecture there is a mass of other evidence. At least, even the monuments of the ancient Roman numismatics are coins dated with the names of those who ruled or ruled. So this Civilization has left a lot of monuments around the world.
          Well, you will not dispute this ?!

          Quote: Igarr
          Much current orthodox science attracts Arab authors? Not.


          Here is a mistake. A lot of texts are in Arabic. And they are actively working with them.

          Quote: Igarr
          Why? The library of Alexandria burned out. Or burned?
          Or taken to the Vatican?


          Part burned, part really burned during the Arab conquests.
          Regarding "taken to the Vatican" ... Is there evidence of this removal? laughing

          Quote: Igarr
          To sit and talk like a wood grouse - about the greatness of Rome, and the greatness of Dr. Greece - based on bullshit ???


          What "bullshit"?
          These Civilizations AROUND THE WORLD have left so many monuments and testimonies that only their complete madness can dispute their greatness and existence itself, or .... well, better not say anything.

          Quote: Igarr
          Based on the fake Radziwill annals?


          Do you have evidence that this is fake? Did you conduct the examination yourself?

          In general, another set of nonsense and quoting people working not for science and not for the truth, but for their own pockets or even the sick.
          1. saveall
            saveall April 10 2012 17: 22
            +2
            Everything is precisely said ... Do not diminish, not add ... Antinauk and antihistory recently simply flooded everything. I’m afraid that something else will not be seen if everything continues in the same vein. Absurdity and only ... It seems that people just want to spoil the brains of millions of crazy theories and versions, presenting them for the truth.
          2. Pessimist
            Pessimist April 10 2012 20: 45
            0
            Quote: MAhalych
            In general, another set of nonsense and quoting people working not for science and not for the truth, but for their own pockets or even the sick.

            I will support you !!! Recently, "new versions of history" have been popping up quite often! Especially various "historical delirium" about the greatness of a particular nation or people !!!! Russians are descendants of the Scythians and Sarmatians! laughing Well, the author killed, well, the analysis was done, of the used literature !!! laughing Laughter makes out! Dnieper Slavs, glades and northerners who founded the "mother of Russian cities" were generally dark-haired !!!! laughing But Novgorod and Pskov founded Slovenes, fair-haired tribes !!! And the people OR Tribe of Russia never existed !!! The Drevlyans, having killed the Kiev prince Igor, said - "here, we have killed the Russian prince", not counting ourselves as Russians! The concept of "RUS" is a class concept, as the Slavs called the tribal elite, "aristocracy", vigilantes and princes. Therefore, the concept of "Russian land", "Russian people"! The same Drevlyans, after their subordination to Princess Olga, WIFE OF THE KILLED IGOR, became "Russian people"!
            1. saveall
              saveall April 10 2012 23: 16
              +1
              This is well used by our "sworn well-wishers" ... If you cannot divide as a people, then you can divide according to who believes in what fairy tales. The blessing of fairy tales now ... who is in what is much, and each new inventor fancies himself, if not a prophet, then a historian with a capital letter, no less. And then you read and wonder ... it reaches the point of absurdity.
          3. Igarr
            Igarr April 11 2012 20: 39
            -1
            Guys ... except for arrivals ... what did I see from you?
            It's nothing.
            None of you are capable of defending a TRADITIONAL story.
            Except - run into me. On Fomenko (Although he has to do with it? ... And ... who are ЖЖОТ-ЖУТУ ... well know ... and ... Commerce, okazza, Read sickeningly)
            And where does the New Chronology itself?
            And here is the construction of Yuri Petukhov?
            And here is the construction ... Gumilyov ....?

            The mass of historians of the Western school - recognize the incorrectness of the HISTORY, as it is now interpreted.
            There was ROME-West ...... and there were a lot of henchmen, opponents, hee-proti ... what?
            Against R & M - think about it, only ... R & M A .......... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
            And the fact that all this fake ROME - was just a BYZANTINE (well, I just have to use the accepted layout of names) - and there will be no thought.
            Arab sources .... Mr. Makhalych said ... their mass, STUDY ....
            And the whole focus - are being studied ....
            Because, Arab sources give a completely different story ... EURASIA.
            These sources .. speak of three states on the territory (in current terms) -Belarus-Ukraine-Russia !!!
            Including the territory of Trans-Urals.
            1. Makhalych
              Makhalych April 11 2012 21: 44
              0
              Quote: Igarr
              None of you are capable of defending a TRADITIONAL story.


              Why protect her? She does not need it.
              These "new versions" need proof, of which there is NO. laughing


              Quote: Igarr
              The mass of historians of the Western school - recognize the incorrectness of the HISTORY, as it is now interpreted.


              Call this "mass" by name. And it is the HISTORIANS and not the TYPE of historians.


              Quote: Igarr
              And the fact that all this fake ROME - was just a BYZANTINE (well, I just have to use the accepted layout of names) - and there will be no thought.


              For general development. Byzantium was formed from a fragment of the Roman Empire, its eastern part.
              The materiel is limping, very much. laughing

              Quote: Igarr
              Because, Arab sources give a completely different story ... EURASIA.


              Come on, come on and which other?
              And references to pliz sources.
              Quote: Igarr
              These sources .. speak of three states on the territory (in current terms) -Belarus-Ukraine-Russia !!!
              Including the territory of Trans-Urals.


              Yes ? And what are these states?
        2. zlibeni
          zlibeni April 11 2012 07: 59
          -1
          and therefore the vast expanses of the Roman Empire are basically inhabited by peoples based on the Latin language)))))))))))))))) and who knows at least a little Latin, I might notice that if you read the English text spell It turns out a very interesting picture. That is, the base is also Latin.
          these are the next articles from the same cycle that the Americans did not fly to the moon
    4. neri73-r
      neri73-r April 10 2012 12: 12
      +9
      The people who have forgotten their history are doomed to extinction !!! (c) That's why you need to know her and be proud of her!
    1. postman
      postman April 10 2012 12: 32
      -4
      Quote: balamut_x
      and it was like that

      Great link
    2. Zhizneslav
      Zhizneslav April 10 2012 14: 51
      0
      Firstly, recently I have been doubting everything that is presented by Western studies, especially regarding the past, secondly, in order to draw such conclusions, it is necessary to study not forty thousand samples, but millions, and it is precisely in those regions that are mentioned in the studies.
  2. Yoshkin Kot
    Yoshkin Kot April 10 2012 08: 57
    -12%
    and it was like that

    as??? broken link
    1. balamut_x
      balamut_x April 10 2012 09: 03
      -4
      I checked the normal link what
      1. OSHA
        OSHA April 10 2012 21: 54
        0
        so why are you still here
  3. alebor
    alebor April 10 2012 10: 01
    -4
    It would be nice if the author showed that Adam and Eve were Russian and spoke Russian in the Garden of Eden, respectively.
    1. LTL70
      LTL70 April 10 2012 10: 47
      -2
      And so it was - everything, Tue. including the Russians descended from Adam and Eve, therefore from the Russians, and as for the language, there was only one language in Eden - different languages ​​appeared after the Babylonian pandemonium, but you don’t remember that anymore!
      1. zlibeni
        zlibeni April 11 2012 08: 04
        -1
        yeah nafig. this is Adam and Eve descended from Russians .you confuse the sequence)))))))))))))))))) and if genetics deciphered the genome and found out that humanity came from one man very similar to Ethiopian and several women
  4. Yoshkin Kot
    Yoshkin Kot April 10 2012 10: 52
    -5
    This is done so that YOUTH, REAL OUR ANCIENT, saw it.

    Yeah, sick delirium, especially "touched" by neo-pagans, who love idoland instead of real Russia, however, sublimation
    1. saveall
      saveall April 10 2012 13: 21
      -5
      Yeah ... That's for sure ... All the wandering in some sort of dreams about ancient greatness, and all this is done in order to find at least one fad, to reject the subsequent historical path of Great Russia-Russia based on Orthodoxy. Hence, all these attempts ... We are already trying to drag the Scythians by the ears ... Although it doesn’t work out, they all pull and pull. In general, Mr. Samsonov again distinguished himself, however, as always.
      I will not tire of repeating.
      Whom God wants to punish takes away his mind.
      1. prunx
        prunx April 10 2012 16: 18
        -1
        And what is Orthodoxy you can explain? Where in Judeo-Christianity is right and glory and what does it mean? lol You can ask any priest - they have no answers. Why was there a "Russian Orthodox Church, and Patriarch Nikon changed to" Orthodox? Why do you not praise the Orthodox, but worship a foreigner? Is it possible in more detail about the great Russia-Russia based on Orthodoxy?
        1. saveall
          saveall April 10 2012 17: 00
          +3
          Hmm ... Well, nonsense in your head, you really excuse me and where do you get it only.
          Orthodoxy (tracing-paper with Greek - literally “correct judgment”, “correct teaching” or “correct glorification”) is a trend in Christianity that took shape in the east of the Roman Empire during the first millennium BC. e.
          Historically, as well as in theological literature, "Orthodoxy" refers to the teaching approved by the catholic church - as opposed to heresy. The term appears as an antonym to the word “heterodoxia”, which denoted “other,” or non-church, theological views of various heretics and those teachers whose opinions the Church rejected for any reason. The terminological meaning is assigned to it by Eusebius of Caesarea (III century), and since Justinian (VI century) the word "Orthodoxy" has been used widely enough to denote theological views regarding which it is believed that they exactly correspond to the Gospel and the teachings of the Church.
          The earliest written use of the word “Orthodoxy” on the territory of Russia is recorded in the “Word on Law and Grace” (1037-1050) of Metropolitan Hilarion.
          Where does obscurantism come from?
          And that Russia was not, in your opinion, based on Orthodoxy? Even despite the fact that its head was the Orthodox Tsar - the anointed of God? Well do you know ..?
          1. Zhizneslav
            Zhizneslav April 10 2012 21: 02
            +1
            "The terminological meaning for it is fixed by Eusebius of Caesarea (XNUMXrd century), and since the time of Justinian (XNUMXth century) the word" Orthodoxy "has been used quite widely to denote theological views, regarding which there is an opinion that they exactly correspond to the Gospel and the teachings of the Church. "
            Wow, they all spoke Russian "Orthodoxy"?
            1. saveall
              saveall April 10 2012 21: 50
              +1
              In my opinion, it is clearly written that this is a translation from Greek ...
              It seems that you are talking with adherents of the same sect.
              He had experience in dealing with sectarians ... Only they call black white and white black, and when you give them any arguments and, so to speak, facts, they either pretend they do not understand, or carry complete nonsense, constantly repeating that at least nobody had known about this before, but this is a hundred pounds so it is - the most true truth in the last resort, because they are taught by their sectarian gurus, and even that ...
              1. Zhizneslav
                Zhizneslav April 11 2012 10: 27
                0
                I really apologize for the translation being written, but it’s not such a strong argument, it’s just as true and it seems even more true to me, judging by the context of the translation, not Orthodoxy, but faith, i.e. right faith. And why is everyone so fond of becoming personal, like you don’t understand anything, are you a sectarian or a fanatic? Let's see what Hilarion writes.
                1. saveall
                  saveall April 11 2012 11: 31
                  0
                  And you will excuse me if you were harsh.
    2. Volkhov
      Volkhov April 10 2012 14: 26
      +3
      Teach physics, then look at historical ornaments and some monuments - this is really a great story, not swordsmen. Even the shape of the FAMILY and its name is far ahead of modern times.
      1. saveall
        saveall April 10 2012 14: 48
        0
        You are what?
        1. Volkhov
          Volkhov April 11 2012 02: 43
          +2
          Moreover, the ancient greatness is not a daydream, but a reality that is closed from us on several screens:
          - falsified science - the creation of monkey lovers
          - Christianity, in which humanity is replaced by a lie
          - neopaganism, reduced to a ritual primitive such as jumping over a fire and not burning eggs, or attempts to please Perun with exponential kicks and ax rotation - while he is a scientist and his characters are hypersound, nuclear fusion, time physics.
          To understand the Ancients, you just need to think in the same direction, and this is technology and civil defense.
          1. saveall
            saveall April 11 2012 09: 53
            0
            My friend, every era in the history of mankind is great in its own way. I don’t deny it ... Where did you find it from me ... Moreover, the article is not even about that.
            Well, about the rest of the list ... This is of course something. Poor connoisseurs of antiquity ... Continuous conspiracies against them. And all that is hidden from them by shields. Or maybe there is nothing to hide? What do you think?

            By the way, I don’t understand why you still use a computer? Well, quickly join a club in the teeth and into the forest, so to speak, to the ancients. Excuse me, but you couldn’t help it ... And the last question. You yourself are not funny?
            1. Volkhov
              Volkhov April 11 2012 13: 31
              0
              The club is more complicated than the computer (in the initial state). When the rifle runs out of ammunition, it can also be used as a club.
              It’s not at all funny - Russians and many others are on the verge of death due to ignorance.
  5. Oleg0705
    Oleg0705 April 10 2012 11: 11
    +5
    The other part was strengthened in the strongholds of the North Caucasus; modern Ossetians are considered their descendants.


    by the way, Ossetians have a lot of Slavic names request
    1. recitatorus
      recitatorus April 10 2012 11: 48
      +11
      And what an influx of trolls! What an activity! Apparently the article touched a living!
      1. Churchill
        Churchill April 10 2012 13: 20
        +6
        And the more we touch on this topic, the more dirt will pour on us! .. Why would such a quick !!!
  6. Prometey
    Prometey April 10 2012 12: 14
    +11
    I support the author of the article. Since tsarist times, most of our historians have tried to fine-tune our history to Western European, to squeeze into the corridor of Western European civilization. And even in our time, you don’t have to go far — a series of comments on this article show that any deviation from dogma immediately causes hissing and discontent.
    While still in college, we had an archeology teacher - a fan of his craft. He devoted half his life to archeology and then he still said that so far we have not appreciated the contribution of the peoples of the Great Steppe to world history. Yes, the Scythians and Sarmatians did not leave us pyramids, collisionses, temples, but their culture, craft and technology influenced more enlightened peoples.
    1. Churchill
      Churchill April 10 2012 13: 38
      +5
      Before my eyes, the theory of continental drift has turned from heresy into immutable truth! So based on my own experience, I can predict that in 10-20-30 years we will not know the story that we studied at school! .. Interest in the topic is growing like an avalanche, which means academics cannot resist ...
  7. revnagan
    revnagan April 10 2012 12: 43
    +4
    And here's another interesting point of view. I just want to say that this is not just another opus from the "history of the great ukrov" so you don't need to get up on your hind legs. Rather, the materials in the book ridicule the efforts of modern Ukrainian historians and in places intersect with the materials of the article. Well, and apart from everything else, this is another point of view on the history of our people, and as it seems to me personally, it is very truthful in places.
    http://ukrstor.com/ukrstor/buzina-tajnajaistorija.html
    PS Under the history of our people, I mean the history of the Eastern Slavs, our ancestors.
  8. saruman
    saruman April 10 2012 12: 47
    +7
    The second part is better than the first. Clearly set the problems and priorities. The goals are named. The article is definitely a plus.
    I can definitely say that all the migrations of peoples that had a huge impact on the creation and development of ancient civilizations began from the territory of modern Russia. This applies, as proto-Aryan tribes, Indo-Aryan, Scythian-Sarmatian, as well as Turkic, and many others. The only exception is the expansion of the Arabs. Therefore, the definition of the Englishman Mackinder that Russia is the Heart of the World is the most correct definition.
  9. alanz
    alanz April 10 2012 12: 51
    +5
    It is the Ossetians who are the descendants of Alan
    only they preserved this culture, language and customs

    who do not agree write in a personal
    1. saruman
      saruman April 10 2012 15: 35
      +3
      No one argues that the ancestors of the Ossetians were Alans. The Caucasus and its environs are generally a storehouse of the remains of ancient tribes and peoples! It is a pity that this region will not reach the world.

      But I want to note that it is impossible to preserve the language, culture and customs for millennia. There are, for example, such European people - Hungarians. With great confidence, the ancestors of the Hungarians can be called the Hun tribe, from which part the Huns came, etc. But, I strongly doubt that the Huns could understand the Hungarian language, the customs and culture of the Hungarians are also completely different from the Huns. The customs and language of modern Russians, Urains and Belarusians, remotely remind us of the ancient ancestors.
      One must remember the ancestors, study the forgotten and preserve the unforgettable. For example, I think that while it will be winter in Russia, Russian people will celebrate Maslenitsa, as well as a thousand years ago. But not everyone remembers what it means. Somehow messy happened.
      1. Pessimist
        Pessimist April 10 2012 21: 07
        0
        Quote: saruman
        I doubt very much that the Huns could understand the Hungarian language,

        But Khanty and Mansi can understand them quite tolerably! laughing One language family, moreover, of three almost identical languages: Khanty, Mansi and Magyar! Browse ethnology, language families! And the Huns are a different family. And the Pancake is a symbol of the coming spring, a pancake is a symbol of the sun, Christianity has nothing to do with it. And the same Anglo-Saxons and Russians are an Indo-European family, you can find many common foundations that are not immediately noticeable! Example: ber - a bear, among the Slavs, according to legend, a terrible beast could not be called by its own name, therefore they called it "knowing honey", but this name can be traced in the name of the "den" - the lair of the ber! Hence the affinity with Sanskrit, one linguistic family, and the largest!
      2. Syrdon
        Syrdon 21 May 2012 12: 03
        0
        Speaking of Hungary))), in Hungary, after the Tatar-Mongol invasion, a large compact group of descendants of the Alans settled down, who calls themselves jars.
  10. saruman
    saruman April 10 2012 12: 55
    +9
    I remembered. One of my friends was in the capital of Iran - Tehran. So, he was very surprised to see images and sculptures of Russian epic heroes and princes in the subway and on the streets of the city. But the Iranians depict their ancestors in this way.
    1. Sniper 1968
      Sniper 1968 April 10 2012 14: 56
      +5
      saruman,
      The entire Persian nobility (75 "... strong men ...") was killed in the 000th century during the Jewish revolution. This is a prototype of 6 ... Slogans: freedom, equality and brotherhood. At the head were Jewish leaders who, with the expropriated They fled well to the north, where they stood at the helm of the Khazar Kaganate. Almost all the killed nobility were Slavs ... In the 1917-10 centuries, the European Slavic nobility was also killed ... The ancient MOSSAD worked clearly ...
  11. markus112
    markus112 April 10 2012 13: 10
    0
    very helpful
  12. Ascetic
    Ascetic April 10 2012 14: 55
    +6
    modern Russians (superethnos of the Rus, which includes Great Russians, Little Russians, and White Russians, and other smaller groups) are the direct descendants of the Indo-Europeans, the Aryans of the Bronze Age, the Cimmerians, the Scythians, the Sarmatians, and the Alans.

    To avoid copyright infringement, post a hyperlink to the original article: http://topwar.ru/13282-velikaya-skifiya-i-superetnos-rusov-ch-2.html


    The only thing I want to add this fact is confirmed by the research of geneticists. This has been repeatedly said and commented on at the forum. You can read here
    My webpage

    The Great Russian Scythia is part of our great history, our ancestral home, of which we have no right to forget. Remembering that the whole Central, South and Northern Europe was such an ancestral home for us, remembering our homelands on its lands, we should not neglect the Eurasian open spaces mastered by our fearless and powerful ancestors - creators, farmers and warriors, true sons and daughters of the original people of our planet - the superethnos of the Rus.

    Yu.D. Petukhov
  13. Passing
    Passing April 10 2012 15: 10
    +2
    The article is propaganda. Notice, I'm not saying that the article is a lie. To paraphrase a well-known phrase - there is truth, there is a lie, and there is propaganda. The meaning of the article boils down to the idea that the great Scythian Civilization existed for five thousand years; in the sixth millennium, it was transformed into Russian Civilization. And therefore, Russian civilization is the greatest and oldest in the world. fool
    The origins of Russian Civilization do not lie at all in some Scythians, the origins lie in the pre-Slavic tribes - Venets. The fact that Venets came from the settled part of the Scythians does not change anything, the Scythians are deeply alien to us in terms of lifestyle and attitude. A nomad, albeit at least three times settled, and truly settled - these are diametrically opposite entities. With the same success it can be argued that the Slavs are the heirs of Adam, and therefore our civilization is reckoned from the creation of the world.
    For minus cheers-patriots: it is certainly pleasant to soar in illusory heights, but sooner or later there is a collision with the earthly firmament. Try to draw strength and confidence not from pleasant ethereal fantasies, but from the harsh, undisguised truth. Then no hurricane of "newly discovered circumstances" and "declassified KGB archives" will sweep you away.
    1. Pessimist
      Pessimist April 10 2012 21: 15
      0
      I will support you! Procopius of Kessarii said that a large tribe of Wends split into two branches - Slavs and Antes. The self-name of the ants is unknown, but Procopius clearly states that the ants separated themselves from the Slavs, and considered themselves "more noble"! But what is the "snag" here is still not clear. The last mention of antes in the chronicles of Byzantium dates back to 702.
  14. Zhizneslav
    Zhizneslav April 10 2012 15: 12
    +7
    In general, I am much more pleased to know that my Ancestors were no less, and perhaps greater, than my Grandfathers. And I am a descendant of the Great People. And convincing me of this is much easier than the opposite, but no one has presented me with the facts of the contrary. So why should I believe them. Modern history is all made up of theories and conjectures, so I'd rather believe in our Great Past!
  15. Odinplys
    Odinplys April 10 2012 15: 45
    +4
    Zhizneslav,
    I support ...
    Everyone writes history for themselves ... who cares ... in any manner ...
    I am the son of the Great People ... and let them try to convince me ... all sorts of lives ... ovskie tales ...
  16. Ohrim
    Ohrim April 10 2012 15: 58
    +4
    All people are brothers! And we have a special brotherhood - Slavic-Aryan. We are close in spirit, mentality. For example, the spirit of a naked purebred is not acceptable. And much more. I was amazed when I learned how in Hindi they consider: he, before, three, char, pack ... This is much more like ours than one, two, three ..
  17. viruskvartirus
    viruskvartirus April 10 2012 18: 52
    +3
    A group of geneticists from France reported that for the first time in the world they managed to almost completely restore the appearance of people who lived several thousand years ago. As samples were taken DNA from the remains of the inhabitants of Siberia, who lived here in the Bronze Age. It turned out that on the vast territory from the Urals to the Krasnoyarsk Territory, in the center of which is the modern Novosibirsk region, there lived blue-eyed and fair-haired people, genetically close to modern Europeans. According to the same group of paleogenetics, the ancient Siberians came here from where the other “European” came from, thousands of years later, the Cossack Ermak Timofeevich, who conquered Siberia completely.

    A group of French geneticists from the Strasbourg Institute of Forensic Medicine took 25 people to study the bones who lived, as the study says, in the “south of Central Siberia” during the Bronze and Iron Ages. In other words, we are talking about representatives of the so-called Andronovo culture, which several thousand years ago covered the territory from the Urals to the Krasnoyarsk Territory, including the Novosibirsk Region.

    Reference: Representatives of the Andronovo culture, first discovered in the Krasnoyarsk Territory, were probably the first Siberian metallurgists: they successfully smelted bronze jewelry, weapon tips and other products. This culture is associated with the invention of chariots. Finally, the Andronovites are regularly called the ancestors of the Indo-Iranians, or Aryans, who later allegedly moved from southern Siberia to India and Iran. Other scholars, however, suggest that the Andronovites, arriving from the west, later simply disappeared into the Mongoloid Siberian tribes. In the Novosibirsk region, the remains of their settlements were found, for example, near the village of Vakhrushevo, Kochenevsky district. According to archaeologists, the Andronovites appeared on this territory in the 13th century BC, fighting out the Mongol nomads.

    An analysis of the DNA residues from Andron’s bones by French geneticists convincingly suggested for the first time what a typical inhabitant of the Novosibirsk Region or Krasnoyarsk Territory looked like three to four thousand years ago. Most likely, he was a blue-eyed blond.

    The fact that representatives of the Andronovo culture were similar to the Europeans has been discussed a lot before. However, genetic analysis first described their appearance with the convincing nature of the profession of forensic doctors. The French examined ancient DNA using ten markers corresponding to a specific genetic “letter” that encodes the color of their eyes, skin or hair.

    “The analysis was successfully carried out on most of the remains, with a high probability of revealing typically European features in them: blue or green eyes, blond hair and pale skin,” the geneticists reported.

    Having worked out the technique on fossil Siberians, the French plan to extend it to other cases when it is necessary to read a heavily damaged genetic code. “As far as we know, this is the first study of this kind,” they said with pride in the introduction to their work. However, French genetics have been dealing with Siberians for more than a year. Earlier, the same group of scientists confirmed the genetic proximity of Andronovites to modern Europeans as a whole. “Despite the small sample size, our data show a Euro-specific haplogroup - proximity reaches 86% in the Bronze Age, decreasing to 64% in the Iron Age,” says a Strasbourg Institute study last year.

    Moreover, according to the French, the ancient Siberian Caucasians came here from the same place where, after thousands of years, the “second wave” of Europeans - that is, the Cossack detachments of Ermak.

    “The data for the decoding of mitochondrial DNA coincide with the data for decoding the Y chromosome, indicating that the homeland of the ancient Siberians from the Krasnoyarsk Territory was Ukraine and Southern Russia,” the study said.

    Novosibirsk scientists are also engaged in the analysis of fossil human DNA. “We have two programs - the study of DNA carriers of the Pazyryk culture, the era of early iron. The second project is the DNA of the inhabitants of Western Siberia of the Bronze Age, including the Andronovo culture, ”explains Vyacheslav Molodin, deputy director for science at the Institute of Archeology of the SB RAS. What happened to the Andronovites in Siberia later and whether they became the ancestors of the Siberian Scythians, to which, for example, the famous “Princess of Altai” belongs, scientists definitely cannot say. “After the Andronovo culture, dozens of cultures of the Late Bronze Age, then the early Scythian time, then the flowering of the Scythian time. So far no one knows how much they are interconnected ”
    1. Pessimist
      Pessimist April 10 2012 21: 20
      0
      Quote: viruskvartirus
      “The analysis was successfully carried out on most of the remains, with a high probability of revealing typically European features in them: blue or green eyes, blond hair and pale skin,” the geneticists reported.

      And what do scientists say about the "Grimaldian" man? He has a full set of signs of the Negroid race! laughing
      1. viruskvartirus
        viruskvartirus April 11 2012 00: 09
        +1
        Scientists say "The Kurgan hypothesis of the ancestral homeland of the Proto-Indo-Europeans implies a gradual spread of the" Kurgan culture ", which eventually covered all the Black Sea steppes. Subsequent expansion beyond the steppe zone led to the emergence of mixed cultures, such as the Culture of globular amphorae in the west, nomadic Indo-Iranian cultures on east and the resettlement of the proto-Greeks to the Balkans in about 2500 BC The domestication of the horse and the later use of carts made the kurgan culture mobile and expanded it to the entire region of the “Yamnaya culture.” The kurgan hypothesis considers that all the Black Sea steppes were the ancestral home of the proto-Indo-Europeans and the whole region spoke the late dialects of the Proto-Indo-European language. The area on the Volga, marked on the map as? Urheimat denotes the location of the earliest horse breeding traces (Samara culture) "and genetics confirm the map haplogroup R1a1 http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/% D0% A4% D0% B0% D0% B9% D0% BB: R1a1a_distribution.png h we read the barrow hypothesis everything is clearly written
    2. Passing
      Passing April 10 2012 23: 13
      +2
      Here is what the Scythians looked like (http://true-history.blog.ru/109741331.html):

      Looks like a Russian, looks like.

      This one is like a Persian.

      and this one is a spilled Hellen.
      Moreover, all these Scythians are imprinted on one product. Those. this is not stylization at all, these are real images.
      And to the heap of reconstruction of the Ural Scythians:


      Here you are, as you want, but it seems to me at these reconstructions that Meria, Mordovians, Mari ...
      1. Igarr
        Igarr April 11 2012 19: 49
        0
        And the scalp ... virtually ... did not try to shoot ..
        All bald ones look the same.
        What is wrong here .. I, for example, see - Egyptian eyes, adhered earlobe, some kind of hypertrophied nose, according to the Caucasian, Armenoid sign.
        Even this kit is already unlikely. Ah, narrow cheekbones - ...
        For me - a clear anamorphism.
        Depressed nose bridge and nose like in the bottom photo ???

        Not a gram of personal ... as is customary. I'm not special.
        1. Passing
          Passing April 12 2012 00: 29
          0
          Igarr, I’m not an anthropologist, I judge by personal feeling that I have been to that area (Mordovians, etc.) more than once, so I have a feeling that the Ural Scythians have not disappeared, and there they stayed.
          And in general, to unite the Scythians into a single mass is IMHO a mistake. All these nomadic, and not so, peoples were united under the label "Scythians" by the Greeks. This is how the Romans were united under the general label of "barbarians". With the same success it can be argued that modern Europe is inhabited by a tribe of Europeans. Those. I mean there were different "Scythians" in different areas. Although they had, to varying degrees, a common ancestor - Ariev. I suggest to see who looks like:
          Presumptive descendants of the Aryans in northern Pakistan (Kalash)


          Allegedly a descendant of the Aryans (Buddhist saint)

          Scythians




          Have you noticed that these Scythians have a characteristic "schnobel" shape and a sloping chin?
          Amazon (also Scythians)

          Black Sea Scythian

          Slav (Krivich)

          Slavyanka (Vyatich)

          Modern Russians

          In general, the "Scythians" are far from 100% similar to the Russians. But something general is visible.
      2. AER_69
        AER_69 April 11 2012 19: 54
        -4
        Yes, the Russians are just in a panic looking for their ancestors.
        Stumbled upon the Scythians. Liked. And now they are trying, as it was said above, to pull themselves on their ears and make them their ancestors.
        1. Igarr
          Igarr April 11 2012 20: 15
          +1
          AER_69, ..... I am Russian .... My name is Igor Vladimirovich ..... I will not tell my name yet.
          I, Russian, do not have to look for ancestors.
          I already know ... my relatives are all Eurasia.
          I have green eyes (right now gray from old age), I have excessively hairy legs (on the Caucasian basis), I (* will not say that a hero, but also not a dhlik) is average in all cultures, I have pale skin, instantly burning in the sun (Scandinavian or Eskimo), I am extremely resistant to solar radiation (I lived in Tashkent and I have a burn like diarrhea - it annoys, but not much) and the tan appears after 2-4 of the day, I have black hair of terrible density (which equals me with Neanderthals), now true, highly diluted. I have already (due to the curvature of the septum) the nose has become, like a bottlenose dolphin.
          There is only one sense ... stop driving ... empty info ...
          It’s necessary, something ... really think. Too bad not to do it. I don’t like to go out into the void.
  18. pinachet
    pinachet April 10 2012 19: 08
    +2
    I’ve always been wondering why Alexander the Great came to India, and wasn’t in Siberia on the territory of modern central Russia? Did the Romans climb onto the island of Britain, but didn’t we have them again? the elements of the Chinese wall (ancient ones not restored) were built since it was not China that defended itself, but from it .. etc.
    So someone lived with whom they didn’t want to contact?
    1. Makhalych
      Makhalych April 10 2012 19: 30
      -1
      Quote: pinachet
      I’ve always been wondering why Alexander the Great came to India, but wasn’t in Siberia on the territory of modern central Russia?


      Probably you just need to understand how and by what principles he started his campaign. The route was determined - Persia. Next, we look at the map of the campaign. Where Darius and Bess ran away, Alexander went there. Further, it is clear - India - "Fairyland", "Land of the Oycumene".
      Then, the rebelled army, which was tired and did not want to move on.
      Returning back, Babylon, death.
      And what was in those days on the territory of Central Russia and Siberia?
      For them, there was generally nothing interesting.
      Although not, the well-known fact that the Greeks traded with the peoples living near the Ural Mountains, they called these mountains Riphean. And they thought that it was in these mountains that terrible griffins live.
      But trade routes did not go through the region of Central Russia and to the South.


      Quote: pinachet
      the elements of the Chinese wall (ancient ones not restored) were built since it was not China that defended itself, but from it .. etc.


      Have you seen these items? Can you understand that they are built to protect not from the outside and from the inside?
      Chinese Civilization is quite ancient, and left a lot of evidence of the one who lived in China and from whom China defended itself. It is FROM whom and not from himself.
      1. pinachet
        pinachet April 10 2012 21: 38
        0
        Almost three years ago, on November 07.11.2006, XNUMX, an article by V.I. was published in the journal Organizmica. Semeyko "The Great Wall of China was built ... not by the Chinese!" In which Andrei A. Tyunyaev, president of the Academy of Basic Sciences, expressed his thoughts on the non-Chinese origin of the "Chinese" wall ....

        Here, to confirm our scientific correctness, it is enough to cite only one fact. HOLITES on a significant part of the wall ARE DIRECTED NOT TO THE NORTH, AND TO THE SOUTH! And this is clearly visible not only in the most ancient, not reconstructed sections of the wall, but even in recent photographs and in works of Chinese painting ..

        MAGAZINE DEDICATED TO FUNDAMENTAL SCIENCE - "ORGANISM"
        Organizmica.org/.com/.net/.ru
        http://www.organizmica.org/archive/609/vks.shtml
        there is a photo there, and above I wrote quotes from the article
        but about the Macedonian .. its route
        http://www.vivl.ru/alexander/poxodofalex.gif
        for some reason he did not go north, ..?
      2. viruskvartirus
        viruskvartirus April 11 2012 10: 40
        0
        Makhalych,
        Probably you just need to understand how and by what principles he started his campaign. The route was determined - Persia. Next, we look at the map of the campaign. Where Darius and Bess ran away, Alexander went there. Further, it is clear - India - "Fairyland", "Land of the Oycumene".
        Then, the rebelled army, which was tired and did not want to move on.
        Returning back, Babylon, death.
        And what was in those days on the territory of Central Russia and Siberia?
        For them, there was generally nothing interesting.
        The assertion is controversial .... I did not have time to say so and shook it off .... it is known that he fought with the Scythians, read the recorded speech of the Scythian ambassador to him ... and was wounded in the thigh. He already grabbed more than he could "digest" ...
    2. viruskvartirus
      viruskvartirus April 11 2012 00: 08
      +1
      The wall is built against the Hunu ...
      1. Igarr
        Igarr April 11 2012 20: 01
        0
        Not .. guys ... you're wrong ..
        Just listen to Makhalych.
        He was there ... under Alexander Zulkarnayne ... only nickname - was Ptolemy.
        Think about how deeply - ".. just understand how and by what principles he began his campaign. The route was determined - Persia. Next, we look at the map of the campaign. Where Darius and Bess ran away, Alexander went there. Further it is clear - India -" Fabulous country "," Land of the Ecumene. "

        The main thing is the principles ... Homonoya - equality in the mind, humanistic principles - if you have oil .. and you don’t share ... then we will come to your aid ..

        "... Then, the bucked army, which was tired and did not want to go further."
        Where is it?
        Yes, a worthy grandfather of the Soviet Army .... a fly would clarify - where is this ... the army that came back ... can go. Without grandfather.

        "He already grabbed more than he could" digest "...
        In the era of ..... subsistence farming?
        What did he get?
        I suppose C-400 and the Shuttle system. BUT?
        1. Makhalych
          Makhalych April 11 2012 21: 50
          -1
          Quote: Igarr
          Just listen to Makhalych.


          Better me than you. laughing


          Quote: Igarr
          Think about how deeply - ".. just understand how and by what principles he began his campaign. The route was determined - Persia. Next, we look at the map of the campaign. Where Darius and Bess ran away, Alexander went there. Further it is clear - India -" Fabulous country "," Land of the Ecumene. "


          This is not thought out, it was so. Although crumpled.
          Learn the sources for this trip. The very idea under which he organized himself, and under which Alexander united the Greeks.


          Quote: Igarr
          Where is it?
          Yes, a worthy grandfather of the Soviet Army .... a fly would clarify - where is this ... the army that came back ... can go. Without grandfather.


          Where ?
          Further to India. Or do not know the story? Although, what am I talking about ... laughing
          About SA did not understand. Probably because sober. laughing

          Quote: Igarr
          In the era of ..... subsistence farming?
          What did he get?


          What ?
          Yes, there was only gold in coins, jewelry and bullion were tons.
          This is not counting everything else, including resources.
          What ?? !!

          Quote: Igarr
          I suppose C-400 and the Shuttle system. BUT?


          Precisely drank, sir ... laughing
          1. Igarr
            Igarr April 11 2012 22: 07
            +2
            CA - Soviet Army ... anyone who served - would understand.
            About drank - ... is that forbidden?
            I can imagine how hoplites stubble in the sands of Kyzyl-Kum ... hung with gold-diamonds ... there is nothing to drink ... snakes-lizards-karakurt ... around.
            And God forbid, the breeze ... will dry up a fly.
            And they wander ... and proudly think - ".. But there were tons of gold alone in coins, jewelry and ingots.
            That's not counting anything else, including resources. "
            Have you ever been to Central Asia?
            I was born there, I’m mine there.
            I don’t wish the enemy to be near the highway, but one kilometer from the stall.
            And here is the heavy copper infantry?
            So who is the sick colleague?
            1. Makhalych
              Makhalych April 11 2012 22: 24
              -1
              Quote: Igarr
              CA - Soviet Army ... anyone who served - would understand.


              I understood this, did not understand why the CA is drawn to Antiquity?


              Quote: Igarr
              About drank - ... is that forbidden?


              No, not at all. laughing


              Quote: Igarr
              I can imagine how hoplites stubble in the sands of Kyzyl-Kum ... hung with gold-diamonds ... there is nothing to drink ... snakes-lizards-karakurt ... around.


              In general, they were not literally hung.
              You imagine everything wrong.
              There was a treasury (and not one) both stationary from the governors of the territories, and marching. Salaries were paid to everyone agreed.
              There were convoys, engineering services, even prostitutes.
              Read at least something from Paul Fora (I’m talking about him because it is easy to read, unlike fundamentalism).

              Quote: Igarr
              ".. But there were tons of gold alone in coins, jewelry and ingots.
              That's not counting anything else, including resources. "


              This means GENERAL production for the entire period of the Persian and Indian campaigns.

              Quote: Igarr
              Have you ever been to Central Asia?


              Yes. Imagine.
              Afghanistan and Tajikistan as part of one of the MMG are probably the most famous POGO. I will not name, there is nothing in this topic.
              So PERFECTLY know what is there and how. wink

              Quote: Igarr
              And here is the heavy copper infantry?


              Alexander had a very well organized Army.
              VERY WELL.
              Again, I advise you to read the above author.
              1. Igarr
                Igarr April 11 2012 22: 47
                0
                Yes, lan, Makhalych ...
                I see something is starting to work out for us.
                Never mind ... teamwork.
                As for the SA ... If any good sergeant is able to command a platoon now ... why do we refuse such skills in antiquity? After all, people were and are ... no fingers were added, neither ears nor eyes. Even the hands - as there were two, remained.
                Not regiments and generals lead troops - they are led by sergeants.

                I will not say anything about the organization of the army, I agree with you. Such trips to a gangster’s gang are too expensive.
                Which only confirms my opinion - the soldiers walked lightly. So, as the special forces walk - combat guard, the bulk, support.
                And the rear, with a little gold and trophies, was in Persepolis, in Ghazni, in Urgench.

                Only ... it turns out a modern army. Well, to the extreme - Napoleonovskaya ... Well, still, the extreme - Dmitry Donskoy - the organization of a one-to-one campaign. The most powerful rear support. How is it different?

                And that's not the point.
                We do not agree on the interpretation of history. As such.
                I consider the current, approved history to be a linden. Though I know her.
                You are not. You think this is true.

                That's all for now.
                1. Makhalych
                  Makhalych April 12 2012 08: 12
                  +1
                  Quote: Igarr
                  Yes, lan, Makhalych ...
                  I see something is starting to work out for us.
                  Never mind ... teamwork.


                  Similarly.


                  Quote: Igarr
                  As for the SA ... If any good sergeant is able to command a platoon now ... why do we refuse such skills in antiquity?


                  Well, I don’t dispute this.
                  That's just in India, almost all of them decided not to go further, from junior to senior commanders.
                  Quote: Igarr
                  I will not say anything about the organization of the army, I agree with you. Such trips to a gangster’s gang are too expensive.
                  Which only confirms my opinion - the soldiers walked lightly. So, as the special forces walk - combat guard, the bulk, support.
                  And the rear, with a little gold and trophies, was in Persepolis, in Ghazni, in Urgench.

                  Only ... it turns out a modern army. Well, to the extreme - Napoleonovskaya ... Well, still, the extreme - Dmitry Donskoy - the organization of a one-to-one campaign. The most powerful rear support. How is it different?


                  Well, the rear support was on the level!
                  If we take the average figure of 100 troops, then 000 of them were convoys, all kinds of services, engineers, scientists, and so on and so forth ...
                  When the army clashed with opponents, the convoy was behind and the army fought light.
                  So, along the entire route, settlements were established in the right places - strongholds, some of which later became cities.
                  Everything was quite seriously organized.

                  Quote: Igarr
                  I consider the current, approved history to be a linden. Though I know her.
                  You are not. You think this is true.


                  I believe that there are white spots in history, but in general it is true. Let's just say that not all but for the most part.
        2. Igarr
          Igarr April 11 2012 21: 58
          0
          How fresh it is ... Persia ... Iran ... nuclear weapons ..
          Stop-Stop .. what is it me? ... What nuclear weapons .. in the era of Sashka Odessita?

          So believe .... people .... believe .... those who cannot justify the "coinless period".
          They were coins of the highest quality ... they suddenly disappeared for 700 years .. they again came from nowhere - of the highest quality.
          And, before that - all sorts of bullshit, one-piece crafts, curves, slanting.
          And, on each ... clear installation data - the emperor of Rome, Caligula 2, unselected, I print a coin from 207 to 214 the year of the era of the Roman calends.

          You look ... and you don’t even think ... already.
          1. Makhalych
            Makhalych April 11 2012 22: 34
            0
            Quote: Igarr
            So believe .... people .... believe .... those who cannot justify the "coinless period".


            Yes, he was gone. In principle, it was not.
            I advise you to find and read the book by K. Eagleton and D. Williams "Money. History of Civilization". Authors, employees of the department of coins and commemorative signs of the British Museum.
            Everything there is very clear, interesting and with examples. The book to smithereens destroys the miserable versions of the new historians of the "coinless period".
            Coins did not stop minting from the first Lydian in the XNUMXth century BC. and to the present.
            Slight breaks sometimes occurred, locally, but in general, the coinage did not stop.
            Find, read.

            Quote: Igarr
            clear installation data - emperor of Rome, Caligula 2, unselected, I print a coin from the year 207 to 214 of the era of the Roman calends.


            Yes, the Romans (and not only) dated their coins. And what is so here?
            Just if you are not in the topic of Ancient Numismatics, then it probably seems strange to you.
            I advise you to find and read Mattingly's book "Coins of Rome".
            Learn a lot of interesting things.
            1. Igarr
              Igarr April 11 2012 23: 14
              0
              Finally, I’ll say ...
              dear Makhalych ...
              you stopped aggressively attacking me ... and began to work constructively .. together.
              This makes me happy. It is always better to have a mischievous friend than a secret enemy.
              A very, very incomprehensible period for me - the so-called non-monetary.
              I proceed from the usual, everyday concepts .. And I had to deal with them. There were some kind of "rubles of Russia", and manats of Uzbekistan, and sum, then.
              In short, I drank.
              And I came to the conclusion ... - there could not be such a failure in coinage. A thousand years, at a minimum .. And all this time - some inarticulate coinage. Homemade self-sticks.
              Well, let historians excuse me ... I am a radio communications engineer ... I know very well how to fake ... a failed protocol - valiantly transferring to another plane .. and removing chips from another. The chips turn ... the chips turn ... depending on what you need --- ah, guys ... we are all wolves together.
              We drove through.
              Everyone was .... in my place.

              Nevertheless ... either they mint a coin ... or the penis is slobbering.
              And, here ... a non-cash period? .... Yes, I don’t believe in that ..
              Or do they lie coins? ..... METAL ....?
              Or is history lying? ..... Paper .....? a thousand years before us?
              Arrange a referendum? ......
              1. Makhalych
                Makhalych April 12 2012 08: 22
                0
                Quote: Igarr
                Nevertheless ... either they mint a coin ... or the penis is slobbering.
                And, here ... a non-cash period? .... Yes, I don’t believe in that ..
                Or do they lie coins? ..... METAL ....?


                I repeat, he was not there.

                We will not consider the coinage of Asia Minor and Greece of the XNUMXth-XNUMXst centuries BC. This fact is undeniable.
                The coin of Rome before the XNUMXth century A.D. - also.
                Next, consider yes. After all, it is about this period that they often try to say that it was "coinless".
                So, Asia (Compare Asia admissible). The minting of coins did not stop.
                For those who are interested, find the site "Coins of Central Asia" on the network, there are a lot of samples of coins from the XNUMXst to the XNUMXth centuries AD.
                Europe, Apennine Peninsula, etc.
                Did Rome collapse in the fifth century and did the coinage of Roman coins cease? No !!
                The Ostrogoths in the VI century continue to mint coins in the likeness of the Roman. And in Italy in particular. Further, the Byzantine emperor Justinian, having beaten off Italy, begins to mint an imperial coin.
                South Gaul and Spain - Visigoths, also beat a coin in imitation of the Roman system.
                Merovingians in France also mint a coin.
                England has minted its coins since the XNUMXth century.
                6th and 7th centuries. Minted. Small Frankish kingdoms generally abound in mints.
                In general, the coinage was in 8 and 9 onwards.
                Of course there were periods of crisis, the coins and metals from which they were made changed, but the coinage was.

                So the "coinless period" is a myth, to put it mildly. smile
  19. fern
    fern April 10 2012 20: 11
    +4
    I did not know that we (Ossetians) are so ethnically close to Russians)) This explains the good relations between our peoples smile
    1. Igarr
      Igarr April 11 2012 21: 40
      0
      You Ossetians, unfortunately ... or to joy ... are not only close to the Russians. You are - they are.
      Let’s immediately understand clearly ... Russians are people! and not Vasya, Petya from a neighboring village.
      So are the Ossetians ... even if four times - a Caucasian with killer inclinations - genetically - ARII.
      Though you burst. And there is.
      We got used to sorting it out at home - .....- shvili, -or ..., -ali, -jo ..., --- di.
      You are interested ... Russian, too, some .. And in the mass - cook yourself, in your own porridge.
      ARII are Russians. Well, it’s now accepted. In five years they will say - Ossetians. Figs with him, I will not be offended. The main thing is ARII. Better German ARIES!
      Just like Sanskrit - ancient Russian (ANCIENT), if anyone is so pleasant.
      We are not separated by names .... we are separated by our vile, unsatisfied desires.
      I’m standing on that.
    2. Syrdon
      Syrdon 21 May 2012 12: 13
      0
      And I always knew too much in common if we exclude purely Caucasian troubles)))
  20. Konstantm
    Konstantm April 10 2012 20: 23
    +1
    I fully agree with "Results"
  21. Shumer
    Shumer April 10 2012 20: 47
    0
    How much I read various literature and where there is no clear picture where the Ross (Russ) came from, and the Slavs in general. There are many opinions on this subject, many historical investigations, but there is no specificity. It feels like it's either artificially hiding, or a really damn confusing question.
    1. viruskvartirus
      viruskvartirus April 11 2012 00: 25
      +1
      Everyone just says genetics .... everyone who lived in this territory contributed ... but the basis of the haplogroup R1a1 of the ancestors of all Europeans ... and its highest density is central and eastern in Europe, akin to R1a1-R1b prevails in Western Europe .. ..and the Scythians (the name the Greeks came up with it) is a nomadic people who had a similar culture in the titanic spaces and they probably didn’t take the Iranian names there, but brought them there .... as well as spreading the domestication of the horse ....
  22. Pessimist
    Pessimist April 10 2012 22: 41
    0
    The article is completely PSEUDO-HISTORICAL, minus. The author, on the basis of quite scientific books, created only a hypothesis, and very one-sidedly analyzed scientific works, on the basis of which he created his version! EXAMPLE: on the basis of completely open and reliable sources, it is possible to blind (and mold) the myth of the overwhelming combat power of the armored forces of the Red Army in June 1941! Having limited the number of tanks (22 - 23,5 thousand tanks) and their TTD, the best than the German one can "see" a huge superiority over the Panzerwaffe (3500 - 3600 tanks) and put forward a bunch of theories! But if you delve a little into the analysis of the composition of the Red Army tanks, then such data as the number of tanks under repair, the number in storage, the number of tanks to be repaired, but not dispatched, the number of crewed, the number of trained crews, those with a repair base and timely supply of fuel and lubricants, supply problems tank formations with tanks of new and old types, different types of engines, shells, and often even of the same caliber (76,2mm), but different ballistics, etc. !!!! And then it becomes clear that the catastrophe of 1941 could not be avoided !!! A similar article is of the same kind, everything is far-fetched and superficial ... History is a very complex science, you shouldn't take it so lightly ... I think about tanks - a convincing example, albeit "in haste". Beshanov's "tank pogrom" - about the same cuisine ...
  23. karlo
    karlo April 10 2012 23: 19
    0
    Quote: Pessimist
    But if you delve a little into the analysis of the composition of the Red Army tanks, then such data as the number of tanks under repair, the number in storage, the number of tanks to be repaired, but not dispatched, the number of crewed, the number of trained crews, those with a repair base and timely supply of fuel and lubricants, supply problems tank formations with tanks of new and old types, different types of engines, shells, and often even of the same caliber (76,2mm), but different ballistics, etc. !!!! And then it becomes clear that the catastrophe of 1941 could not be avoided !!! A similar article is of the same kind, everything is far-fetched and superficial ... History is a very complex science, you shouldn't take it so lightly ... I think about tanks - a convincing example, albeit "in haste". Beshanov's "tank pogrom" - about the same cuisine ...

    The statements are a little crazy, the impression is that the release of tanks is the manufacture of pies in camp kitchens. There is a plan for the production and nomenclature of types (approved by the General Staff and the main artillery department (tanks belong to them, if I'm not mistaken). Under this plan, the personnel department prepares personnel (by the way, remember the pre-war films like * Tractor drivers * there through each word tank. Management ordered ammunition nomenclature of weapons (i.e. shells. All of this was and was enough. All this is in absolutely open sources. Maybe this doesn’t suit some individuals, but the Red Army had superiority over the Wehrmacht in terms of all the constituents and personnel "The reasons are much deeper than weapons. Both repression and a low level of training. Yes, and the backgammon seemed to have fought without enthusiasm at first. He fled more and surrendered. It’s true and there’s no point denying it. Facts are stubborn. It’s enough to take the rate of retreat and the number of surrendered.
    1. Yoshkin Kot
      Yoshkin Kot April 11 2012 08: 32
      -1
      and the tanks themselves fight? don't they need crews? tank units do not need co-ordination? do not need command do not need supply? not the tank itself should be taken into account, but the tank unit provided with supplies and having experience in operation and exercises, and there were problems with this, to say that even the fuel was delivered by horse-drawn transport
  24. conung70
    conung70 April 10 2012 23: 22
    +1
    FACTS DO NOT EXIST - THERE IS ONLY THEIR INTERPRETATION (NICE) WHY WE SHOULD BE SATISFIED WITH THE WESTERN VERSION .......
    1. viruskvartirus
      viruskvartirus April 11 2012 00: 34
      +1
      We see more than enough facts
      "barrow culture"
  25. Boomcherley
    Boomcherley April 11 2012 03: 03
    0
    This is not the case Zadornov writes ...
  26. Yoshkin Kot
    Yoshkin Kot April 11 2012 08: 29
    -2
    The article has nothing to do with the creations of Nosovsky, Fomenko and other "pseudo-historians". The information given by Alexander is based on a huge amount of factual material accumulated to date.

    has a direct, scattered facts are taken, then they draw the muda to the beard laughing
  27. viruskvartirus
    viruskvartirus April 11 2012 08: 49
    +1
    The final and bold point is the analysis of the remains of the Scythians from the mounds .... I was looking for information and found that studies show the haplogroup R1a1 among the Iranians haplogroup G ... what does this mean you will understand and by the way there is a very large "focus" of the haplogroup R1a1 in India among the higher castes, especially still Once I bring you a map PAY attention to it .... http: //ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB: R1a1a_distribu

    tion.png. And separately for the nationalists, relax you are not true Aryans only half .... although more than the Germans ....
    1. viruskvartirus
      viruskvartirus April 11 2012 12: 43
      +1
      Oops error is not G and J I apologize ....
  28. viruskvartirus
    viruskvartirus April 11 2012 12: 07
    +1
    An interesting plate of the distribution of haplogroups among peoples ....
    http://chest-i-razym.livejournal.com/75944.html
  29. viruskvartirus
    viruskvartirus April 11 2012 12: 29
    0
    By the way, R1a is called Slavic, R1b-Celtic, E3b1-North African. We look at the Ossetian in the table (and their haplogroup is ancient in the number of mutations) and we are surprised at the Bulgarians and smile ....
  30. dmb
    dmb April 11 2012 13: 02
    0
    Fellow citizens. Well, let's still separate the flies from the cutlets. The fact that the official history is not an immutable truth is not disputed by anyone. Moreover, even the most "crazy" statements at first glance have a right to exist if they are somehow justified. It makes you think and disagree, read other sources and argue. precisely in this dispute. as you know, she herself is born. This is by no means outright ignorance. This is not the first time I come across in the comments with the revelation that the "unfinished catholic" set fire to the Library of Alexandria and took its contents to the Vatican. I want to remind you that Caesar set it on fire for the first time long before the emergence of Christianity, and at that time no one lived on the Vatican Hill. In addition, it was fired twice more fairly thoroughly before the coming into power of the emperor Constantine, who introduced Christianity in Rome.
  31. VadimSt
    VadimSt April 13 2012 10: 54
    -1
    Author +++
    I look, many do not like digging in history, trying to find their roots, etc. Well, then read the Bible - there all have one ancestors - Adam and EVE !!!