Great commanders. Genghis Khan

Genghis Khan (1167-1227) was the founder of the Mongolian nation and the founder of one of the most extensive empires the world has ever seen.

Temujin (Temuchin) - this is the name of Genghis Khan, given to him at birth, was born on the banks of the Onon River, in the extreme north-east of modern Mongolia. At the age of 9, the boy was left orphaned - his father, the nephew of the last Khan of the Mongols, died at the hands of the Tatars - the enemies of the Temuchin tribe who came to these lands in the second half of the 12 century, significantly pushing the Mongols. Temujin's mother was left by her husband's followers to the mercy of fate, since the leaders of the rival Mongol clan of Taijiuds desired independence. Thus, Temujin's mother raised her sons in very difficult conditions.

Temujin's coming to power

When Temujin became a teenager, he was captured by a taijiyud tribe. However, he managed to flee and enlist the support of Togoril, the ruler of a Keriit Christian tribe who roamed Central Mongolia. It was with the help of Togoril and the young leader of a small Mongolian tribe named Jamuq (named brother Temujin) that the future great khan was able to save his bride, who was abducted by the Merkit, a tribe inhabiting modern Buryatia. Temujin and Jamuqa remained friends since childhood, but then, for unknown reasons, there was a split between these brothers. Most researchers agree that the egoism and power ambitions of Jamuqi caused the cooling and even the onset of hostility between two friends, because it was during this period that the Mongolian tribes one by one recognized Temujin’s sovereign power, after some time proclaimed by Chingiz Khan, the Great Steppe ruler.

1198 year - the first exact date in the career of Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan and Togoril unite with the rulers of North China in a campaign against the Tatars.

In 1199, the allies of Genghis Khan organized a campaign against the Naimans, the most powerful tribe in western Mongolia, but the campaign was not successful.

In the 1200-1202 years, the Allies won several victories over the forces of the confederation of tribes led by former friend of Genghis Khan Jamuqah, and in 1202, Genghis Khan finally settled with the Tatars.

Now, Genghis Khan was faced with the task of defeating his enemies in Western Mongolia: the Naimans in alliance with Jamuha and the remnants of the Merkits. The Naiman were defeated in 1204, and Kuchluk, the son of their ruler, fled west to find refuge with the Karakits. Jamuqa also went on the run, but was betrayed by his own comrades-in-arms, caught and sentenced to death. Destroying his former friend and main enemy, Genghis Khan gained complete control over the whole of Mongolia. In 1206, on the kurultai of the Mongol princes, which passed at the origins of Onon, he was proclaimed the supreme ruler of the Mongolian tribes, and was now ready for the beginning of the expansion of the empire by conquering neighboring countries.

Great commanders. Genghis Khan

Conquest of China

Already in 1205, Genghis Khan attacked the Tangut - a people of Tibetan origin who inhabited the Chinese provinces of Gansu and Ordos. In the 1207 and 1209 years, as a result of repeated strikes in the direction of North China, the path for a massive offensive into Chinese territory was opened.

In 1211, the Mongols invaded Chinese lands and seized territories north of the Great Wall of China. In 1213, the wall was broken, and hordes of Mongol nomads poured into the Chinese lowlands. Many Chinese generals went over to the side of the Mongols, and the cities often gave up completely without a fight. In the summer of 1215, Beijing was captured and plundered, and the Tsin Emperor fled to Kaifeng on the southern bank of the Yellow River. Leaving one of his generals in China, instructing him to conduct further operations in northern China, Genghis Khan returned to Mongolia to concentrate on the Central Asian campaign.

Campaign in the West

Genghis Khan set off from Mongolia in the spring of 1219, reaching the border Otrar by the fall, and leaving sufficient forces for his siege, moved on to Bukhara, which fell already in March of 1220, and also to Samarkand, which surrendered only a month later. The besieged Otrar also fell. From Samarkand, Genghis Khan sent two of his best generals, Jebe and Subedei, in pursuit of Khorezmshah Muhammad, who met his death on one of the islands in the Caspian Sea. Continuing their way to the west, the generals of Genghis Khan invaded the Caucasus and, having broken the Alans, turned to the north, where they were faced with a clash with the combined Russian-Polovtsian army on the Kalka river. Having won the Kalka, the Mongols turned to the east, to the lands of the Volga Bulgars, which were on their way back to Central Asia, where an unpleasant defeat awaited them. In the battle of Samara Luka, Jabe and Subedey suffered a crushing defeat from the Bulgars. During the march through the territory of Bulgaria, only a small part of the huge Mongolian army remained - about 4000 people.

At this time, Genghis Khan attacked and captured Termez, and 1220-1221 spent the autumn and winter in the territory of modern Tajikistan. At the beginning of 1221, he marched to the ancient city of Balkh, which was part of the Persian province of Khorasan, and sent his youngest son, Tolui (Thule), father of the Great Khan Mengu (Munke) and Khubilai, to complete the conquest of this province. At the end of the summer of the same year, Genghis Khan undertook a campaign south through Afghanistan against Sultan Jalal al-Din, the son of Sultan Mohammed. Genghis Khan and Jalal al-Din met on the banks of the Indus. Sultan was defeated, but escaped capture, escaping by swimming across the river.

With the defeat of Jalal al-Din, Genghis Khan’s campaign in the West was almost complete, and he returned to Mongolia.

The death and burial of Genghis Khan

On the death of Genghis Khan it is only known that the great conqueror died in 1227 during the next campaign. Returning from Central Asia, Genghis Khan launched a war against the Tangut state. Historians cite various versions of his death: from being wounded by an arrow during a fight, to a long illness as a result of a fall from a horse. There is a version according to which Genghis Khan was killed by a lightning strike (this man did too much evil, and the sky punished him). It did not go without assumptions in the spirit of “look for a woman”: a number of researchers suggest that the great conqueror fell from the hand of a captive Khansha Tangut in the heat of the first wedding night.
The burial place of Genghis Khan is still unknown. According to legend, the tomb of Khan is filled to the top with innumerable riches, and Genghis Khan himself sits on a golden throne.

The legacy of Genghis Khan in the field of law and the rules of warfare

Historians argue that Mongolian society during the reign of Genghis Khan was truly democratic. Contrary to his reputation as a ruthless barbarian, established in the West, Genghis Khan carried out such an enlightened policy that no European ruler at that time carried out.

A modest slave could easily rise to the army commander if he showed sufficient military prowess.

Military booty was divided equally among all the warriors who participated in the battle, regardless of their social status.

Unlike most of the rulers of that time, Genghis Khan trusted faithful followers more than members of his own family.

The Great Khan forbade kidnapping women, probably partly due to his own experience with his wife, which he had to rescue from captivity. In addition, this practice led to wars between various groups of Mongols.

He guaranteed freedom of religion, protection of the rights of Buddhists, Muslims, Christians and Hindus. Genghis Khan himself, worshiping the sky, forbade the killing of priests, monks and mullahs.

The Great Khan also defended the immunity of envoys and ambassadors, including the enemy, regardless of what message they brought.

Unlike most of the conquered peoples, the Mongols did not practice torture of prisoners.

Finally, the laws in force in the Mongolian empire concerned the Khan himself - all Mongols were equal before the law, regardless of their material and social status, this principle was implemented very strictly.
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  1. +4
    April 10 2012 09: 30
    He served as an urgent in the places where Genghis Khan was born. Once, when they forced Onon during the exercises, our company commander said thoughtfully: "Somewhere in these steppes is his grave ... I wish I could find it!" "Do you wish, having touched the glory of a great warrior, to become a famous commander?" I asked. "Oh well, nah! .. Can you imagine how many treasures and rare weapons there are! This is how many tugriks are buried under the ground! .." - he gritted his teeth. To each his own!
    1. Goga
      April 10 2012 09: 38
      nokki - Colleague, some of these "seekers" with a "scientific" purpose dug the grave of Tamerlane in 1941 ... - The war began. These diggers were warned about the belief that the opening of the grave of such a warrior would trigger a terrible war - of course they did not believe it, but apparently in vain. I don't believe in omens, I was brought up on pure materialism, but who knows, maybe there is something in this?
      1. Sniper 1968
        April 10 2012 10: 13
        Quote: Gogh
        some of these "seekers" with a "scientific" purpose dug the grave of Tamerlane in 1941

        June 21, 1941, to be precise ... An interesting story with the skull of Tamerlane. Professor Gerasimov recreated the appearance of the Great Lame (the kneecap of the mummy was damaged, this is Tamerlane) on the skull. He did not look like a Mongoloid, a European face. Gerasimov again with all care repeated the operation. The result is the same. And this contradicted from TORYi. The professor became faint-hearted and corrected his cheekbones and eyes. The article was delivered by Schlözer and Möller, the court "historians" of the German Catherine II ...
        1. admiral
          April 10 2012 11: 14
          Bullshit! There was no Genghis Khan and could not be! It’s the same as if now in the steppes of Kolmykia some super-Kolmyk wound up and conquered half the world from sea to sea! Tale, literature, cinema! .. Moreover, that legendary Chinggis was tall, fair-haired and the most amazing bearded! Go to Mongolia and find at least one similar Mongoloid. And the fact that the Mongol himself liked such a fairy tale is not surprising who doesn’t want to feel like a descendant of the cracker of the universe. Great Romania, Greater Kyrgyzstan, ancient ukry is another proof of this. It's time to look at history critically, but she does not stand up to criticism!
          1. Paratov
            April 10 2012 13: 02
            Russia and the Golden Horde are one and the same! And there was no Mongol invasion. And there was a civil strife of Russian princes and a civil war, until one of the princely branches, namely the branch of Vsevolod the Big Nest, extended its authoritarian power to all Russian lands! ..
          2. +8
            April 10 2012 13: 54
            Admiral, let me disagree with you. Mentions of Genghis Khan are found in the manuscripts of the oldest libraries in the world from the Vatican to China. The word Mongol itself was introduced into circulation by Genghis Khan, literally meaning a thousand-armed or numerous people to intimidate enemies. In fact, his main merit is in the fact that he was able to unite the nomadic tribes that were at war with each other into one people and called him Mongols. And thus, the most mobile and powerful army at that time appeared (there were no infantrymen in it, only horsemen, each warrior had at least 3 horses, which ensured fast movement). His other merit was that he was able to establish trade between the East and the West. Merchants paid tribute and no one had the right to touch them, otherwise death. By the way, remember the Battle of Kulikovo. Mom and, sorry, I don't remember the second commander, Tamerlane (he was already mentioned on the forum, see Gog), both, subsequently, executed, because. they violated the law - only khans or on their behalf could declare a campaign and collect tribute. And Tamerlane called this campaign a demon a chapel. Temujin was named Khan Chinggis on the kurultai of nomadic peoples. Among these nomadic peoples there were many tribes, which later (17th century) began to be called Kazakhs (the union of 96 nomadic tribes divided into 3 zhuzes + 2 tribes stood apart - Kozha and Tore). It is the Tora who are the direct descendants of Genghis Khan. And only from this clan (Tore) khans were chosen. For example, the same Tamerlane (clan Barlas) was a bek, He could not become a khan, this was ruled out, even though he was married to a relative of Genghis Khan. Only especially distinguished warriors (or for special merit) could organize their tribe, with the approval of the aksakals, a number of living tribes. geneticists found that most often the "gene of Genghis Khan" is found among the Kazakhs. Generally speaking, Genghis Khan was more of a politician than a commander. The great commander was rather Subedei, a close associate of Genghis Khan. It was he who went on campaigns with both Chigiskhan and his grandson Batu Khan (Batu). It was he who passed the military path from the Yellow Sea to the Adriatic Sea, which no one could repeat (except for the Soviet Army). And also I want to advise all members of the forum to read the book (in my opinion the most interesting about Genghis Khan) "The Cruel Age" is a historical novel, by Isai Kalashnikov, Alma-Ata, Zhazushy publishing house 1985. It is read, as they say, in one breath. even the Balts got up in line. With respect to all.
            1. +2
              April 10 2012 15: 54
              The Great Khan - Genghis Khan, of course there was. Like the Emperor Caesar in Rome. It remains only to figure out who was hiding behind these titles and what they really did.

              Kasym. Have written belebers! They piled everything into a heap: Temujin, Temnik Mamai, lame-Tamerlane, Batu. The Kazakhs are the same descendants of the Great Khan as the Russians.
              1. +12
                April 10 2012 20: 28
                Saruman. I do not want to arrange a polemic with you; it is pointless, t. K. You don’t know the history of my people. But if I can give you a piece of knowledge about it, I will consider it an honor. Genghis Khan (a child’s name is Temujin) was honored to organize his family among the nomadic tribes and it is called the Torah among the Kazakhs. And It’s of special honor that this genus is not included in any of the three Kazakh zhuzes — it stands apart. His wife Borte and mother Oelun are from the Konrat clan (middle zhuz). By the way, my wife is also from this clan. And now why do all the nomadic tribes think Genghis Khan is his own, because he, having already become a khan, took wives from each tribe. Therefore, even the Chinese consider him to be their own. But children from his first wife, Borte (Juchi, Tului, Chagadai, Ugedei-sons; Khasar, Belgutei, Khachiun, Temuge-relatives
                brothers of Genghis Khan). Genghis Khan introduced a specific code of laws (see koment. Kazakhstani), which to this day are relevant, and thereby established order among the nomads. Written letters and mail appeared. Some laws that were used by nomads since ancient times were simply adopted. For example, the judiciary. The judge (biy) was chosen from the people, it was not necessarily a rich person. The main qualities are a sharp mind and sense of justice. A person infringed on his rights, even the poorest, turned to the biy to judge his dispute, even with the richest man. And if the dispute was not resolved fairly, no one turned to him again. Everyone turned away from him, and this was considered a shame. He stopped call biy. Or another Khan got out on the nomad’s kurultai (meeting, congress). Nothing about democracy. Now about Mamai and Toktamysh. Genghis Khan ensured immunity to ambassadors and merchants (they paid a tribute, or, in modern terms, a tax). For safe he paid tribute to trade from neighboring states. So Mamai and Toktamysh violated this postulate, they wanted to warm their hands (or if you want to climb into the common pool on slang), committing robbery. In those days, Genghis Khan and Batu Khan (Batu) was no longer there. Tamerlan ruled the ball. So, after the Battle of Kulikovo, he got one in the Crimea and the other on the territory of modern Iran. Moreover, the Persians did not want to give it away and he had to go on a campaign (he shed a lot of blood there ). But justice was restored, both were executed. And now about the Kazakhs. In the 17th century on the territory of sovr. Kazakhstan was treacherously invaded by the Dzungars from the eastern side of the Tien Shan Mountains (China). Crowded by the Chinese, they flashed their pastures and attacked us. They didn’t take prisoners, they cut everyone out. Almost all of southeastern Kazakhstan was captured. Let me give an example of this massacre: from my kind (Jalaira) out of ten, only one survived. The perfidy was that the Dzungars were close to us people (like Russians and Ukrainians). Then the kurultai (congress, meeting) of nomadic peoples inhabiting sovr. Kazakhstan (96 tribes +2) and we began to call ourselves a single Kazakh nation. (One of the versions of this name, Genghis Khan had 3 combat strategies. One of them was an ak-strategy of white geese. They fight off the predators with the whole flock. ). The leader of this resistance was Ablai Khan. This war lasted for 100 years. The battle ended in Anrakai. Dzhungar didn’t get what they wanted to do with us, they got it themselves. By the way, where did the Kalmyks (Buddhists) come from. Christians and Muslims. This is the only Dzungar tribe who refused to fight with us, for which they were resettled to where they now live. After this war, the steppe became depopulated, in addition, China began to push. Then we asked the Russian Empire for which we are grateful she, otherwise we would have died, and the Chinese would have seized our land. And about Genghis Khan, read Kalashnikov (from the surname it is clear that he is neither Kazakh, nor Kyrgyz, and not even Türks). This historical novel is based on facts. I promise neither you will regret it.
                1. 0
                  April 10 2012 20: 49
                  Dear Kasym !!! AND who wrote the story of your backgammon ????? According to whose version do you want to give us a piece of knowledge ???
                  1. +6
                    April 10 2012 22: 15
                    Glory, please read the Russian authors: Gumileva, Kalashnikova. Regards.
                    1. SL.Kocegar
                      April 11 2012 08: 16
                      I can also advise "The Secret Legend of the Mongols", If you compare the same thing with Kalashnikov, you can also read Yana
                    2. Marat
                      April 11 2012 20: 56
                      In support of Kasym I will add the Soviet writer historian V.G. Jana
                      trilogy "Genghis Khan" "Batu" "To the last sea"

                      Of course, Genghis Khan had a place to be - and there was a place to be the victory of the Mongols over the Kipchaks and the unification of the steppe

                      There was a battle on Kalka - where the Russians in alliance with the ancestors of the Kazakhs - the Kipchaks lost to the steppe united by the Mongols - and many Kipchaks fell into slavery or fled to Hungary (Maurice Simashko - "Yemshan" - interesting - to read - a piercing and bright work)

                      But all this is not a reason to resent the Mongols - it was an "intra-family" Eurasian showdown

                      The Mongols are our native people — and I hope China does not swallow this country — and the Mongols will join the Eurasian Union of Slavs and the steppe

                      Since then, the Kazakhs have a Mongolian clan by origin - grievances in the past - we all live peacefully together and respect our "tore"
                      1. 0
                        April 17 2012 20: 03
                        Yes .. The story is very interesting. Thank you for the information.
                        I had to travel a lot in Buryatia and Tuva. So, I heard a legend there (I don't know whether to believe it or not) that the Buryats are one of the Mongol tribes that refused to go to war in full force under the banners of Genghis Khan and migrated to the remote areas of the Sayan Mountains. So what. allegedly, "Buryat" is translated from ancient Mongolian as something like "apostate" or "coward". They also said that the Buryats for a long time (somewhere up to the 50s) were even offended by their name. But then we got used to it.
                        And to which "tribes" should the Tuvinians be attributed? They seem to be somewhat different in appearance, for example, from the Buryats, although they live nearby ...
                2. +1
                  April 11 2012 19: 23
                  Kalashnikov read, on the advice of L.N. Gumilyov. Of all the artistic historical novels - this is the most historical. I support
                3. 0
                  April 14 2012 18: 26
                  Already Kazakhs to Genghis Khan's relatives? ..... yes
                4. 0
                  April 17 2012 19: 56
                  Thank. Very interesting information. How do you feel about Jan’s books? In your opinion, how close are they to the real story?
            2. alatau_09
              April 23 2012 00: 36
              A little story about the origin of Timuchin, who later became the Great Genghis Khan: the Türks were divided into two branches - light and dark (color of hair, eyes, skin, and even a little anthropological), but they spoke the same language and were carriers of the same culture (this was recorded a Chinese traveler monk in the annals at the beginning of the 1st century AD, moving to the west of Altai, he was the first to see fair-haired, blue-eyed Turks and was extremely surprised that he described their appearance in detail in his notes, since before that the Chinese had never met bright people).
              The light lived in the west and south-west of the Altai mountains, the dark lived in the east ...
              but both branches dealt with blacksmithing and made weapons of iron and its derivatives, the benefit of Altai, the Urals and the territory inhabited by the Turks was rich in ore of various metals and discovered deposits of coal ... had a common written language ...
              The first Türkic Kaganate had territory from the Korean Peninsula to the Black Sea, from the edge of taiga forests to the Aral Sea, and had a central government, then divided just into Western and Eastern Kaganates in Altai ..
              In total, Türkic Kaganates existed for about 200 years, 1 and 2 Türkic, Uyghur, then Kyrgyz Kaganates.
              Now about Genghis Khan ... Have you heard about the red (light) Mongols? they simply do not exist in nature, at that time for sure ... Temuchin’s father was red-haired and light-eyed, his mother from the Turkic tribe Konyrat, later he himself married a konyratka (Bort) ... By the way, the name Timuchin seems to be meaningless, but in Turkic pronunciation - Temirshi - means a blacksmith ...
              In the 12th century, the Mongols did not have statehood, but their neighbors, the Turkic tribes of the Kereit and Naimanov were already states and they were known about them in Byzantium, since they were Nestorian Christians and it was the Kereit Khan who adopted Timuchin and helped him at the beginning of the journey, they spoke the same language and were Türks ... The adoption of the children of brothers or a relative in the culture of the Türks persisted until the middle of the 20th century ... at least among the Kazakhs and it is unfortunate that this tradition was interrupted ...
              Genghis Khan was able to build the Great Empire, because he knew the "genetic" how to do it and avoid the mistakes of his ancestors ...
              Therefore, his western campaigns were perceived by the local Türks as unifying and did not have much resistance other than the settled south of Maverannahr ... Since then (the end of the 12th century), the eastern tribes of the Türks, such as Naiman, Kerei, Jalaira, Konyrat, and others. this side of the Altai mountains are one of the components of the Kazakhs ...
              Therefore, the Turkic Golden Horde and Russia lived in symbiosis, since the local Turks - Kipchaks, Bulgars, Khazars and Ancient Russia lived, were friends, cumulated, were related and fought for more than a century before these events ...
            3. 0
              31 October 2017 17: 13
              Grandson of Genghis Khan. It’s not like a Mongoloid. And - there is no order with the Tatars. Tatars are Bulgars. And if the text insert tartars will be more correct. By the way, the monument stands in the Muslim country of Turkey.
          3. -3
            April 10 2012 20: 52
            Yes, complete nonsense. There was no Genghis Khan, there was no G.Yu. Caesar (look at these Italians, what Caesars ...) there was no A.F. Macedonian, which of the Macedonians are Macedonian. For me, a colleague, such a "thought" appeared - - Nosovsky is Stalin, and Fomenko is Hitler. Can this be, huh? Or not? By the way, in what dispensary do you rest?
          4. -1
            10 November 2014 09: 05
            Bullshit is you Rusyns you have no great pretenses so you envy
      2. Nymp
        April 10 2012 16: 10
        For that minded Gogu and nokki ??? I don’t like simple denied, justify!
      3. -1
        April 10 2012 19: 18
        So what do you think the German divisions concentrated on our border on the night of June 21-22? And until the 21st they were peacefully engaged in combat training in Germany?
    2. +1
      April 10 2012 10: 30
      nokki Apparently, the exercises took place at the Zugol training ground. Yes, Genghis Khan was born on Onon, but not in Mongolia, but in Russia in Transbaikalia in the tract Delyun-Boldok near the village of Lower Tsasuchey. It’s just 130 kilometers up Onon from Zugol. And then, as the author writes, this is the Mongolian version .......
      1. Sniper 1968
        April 10 2012 10: 42
        When in the early 1920s, historians led by Gumilyov ended up in Mongolia, the Mongols did not know who Genghis Khan was. In the epic, not a single line about him. Strange, right? And someone described him as a two-meter giant with a big red beard, with yellow with green eyes. Have you ever seen such Mongols? ... what No. request Me not.
        1. -1
          April 10 2012 10: 53
          Sniper 1968 In fact, the Mongols simply have nothing more to be proud of, so they pull the blanket over themselves.
          1. +3
            April 10 2012 10: 59
            Sniper 1968 I have not been to the tract Delyun-Boldok (the birthplace of Genghis Khan), once local Buryats at a Buddhist festival told me that he was here and was buried. The fact is that he himself wanted to be buried in the place where he was born. They say that they diverted the channel of the river, buried it and returned the channel back. I like this version more ...
            1. 755962
              April 10 2012 12: 06
              Quote: Komsomolets
              he himself desired to be buried in the place where he was born.

              “One Turkic commander delivered his body to his homeland. He buried four coffins in different places, surrounded the real grave of the guards and for three months grazed thousands of horses here. After that, he offered a reward to someone who discovers where the grave is. But no one could find her. ”
        2. Mongol
          April 10 2012 11: 43
          Do you believe that? then why don’t you talk about Genghis Khan. Do not tell please.
          Read that same Gumilyov .... and, t, d.
          1. 755962
            April 10 2012 12: 07
            Some of the locals protest the excavations, convinced that the secret of the grave should remain sacred. They remind us of the prediction according to which, if we disturb the eternal dream of Genghis Khan, the curse will fall on the country. It is recalled here that when Russian scientists, led by Professor Mikhail Gerasimov, uncovered the burial place of the great Tamerlane, another warlike leader of the Mongol invasions, such a curse came true: the next day, June 22, 1941, the Nazis began their invasion of the Soviet Union.
            1. +3
              April 10 2012 20: 59
              Well, yes, yes, yes, and the Nazis at that time languished in anticipation at the border, well, when did Gerasimov open the grave then !!! And, he probably was a German spy, well, then what would be blamed on Russia, and there he’s not fucking roaming around the Mongolian graves. Here you have the Second World War, is it !!!! ???? fool By the way, and it happened not on September 1 that it began in 1939
        3. +2
          April 10 2012 19: 25
          A sniper in 1968, and how old was Lev Nikolayevich Gumelev (and I believe that you mean him) in the early 1920s?
        4. 0
          April 13 2012 16: 12
          In the 1920s? With Gumilev? With which?
      2. +4
        April 10 2012 14: 07
        I would like to add one more thing. The combination of the Mongol-Tatar yoke or the invasion is not right in my opinion. Since Genghis Khan and his descendants exterminated the Tatars and Naimans. The reason for this is the fact that it was the Tatars and Naimans (Kazakh clan) who could make him competition. It was these two nations that were at that time the most numerous and could overthrow his power.
        1. +4
          April 10 2012 19: 33
          Kasym, do not you think your words that Genghis Khan’s genes are most common among the Kazakh people and at the same time that he destroyed the Naiman ancestors of the Kazakhs (your words) do not seem to you a contradiction? In general, Salam is a fellow countryman, I come from Kazakhstan. I recall my homeland with gratitude.
          1. +1
            April 10 2012 22: 09
            Salam, Pancho. The research was not carried out by our scientists; an international team was organized; unfortunately, I don’t remember the source, but this fact most likely comes from the fact that he had wives from almost all nomadic tribes. Naiman were not the ancestors of the Kazakhs, but one of their Kazakh clans ( middle zhuz). Their lands are in the former Taldy-Kurgan region, east of the Karatal river (one of the 7 rivers of Semirechye). And this is one of the most numerous clans of Kazakhs. Please read Kalashnikov. With respect to the Countryman.
            1. castaneda
              April 11 2012 05: 10
              Kasym, well, what Kazakh Naiman, you as an ethnic group only formed in the 17th century.
              1. Marat
                April 11 2012 21: 13
                All right, you say Castaneda - we are a young people educated from many genera

                But specific genera exist for a long time - and the Nimans lead their history much earlier than the Kazakhs and Kipchaks

                And Pancho, too, is right in his own right - there really is a contradiction and a paradox - the Mongols at that cruel time defeated both the Kipchaks and Naimans - but they didn’t, like the Dzungars, became implacable mortal enemies - on the contrary, a new community formed - and the Mongol clans merged into the Kazakh ethnic group - time everything was frayed - and now I, the Kipchak myself, have no hostility towards the Genghisides - the torus - many of whom are my svaty (where) or relatives. They have become a part of our people.

                Kinship ties have cemented the Kazakhs - our nation is still quite united now - although the clans have different origins - there are from the Mongols and Arabs, there are from the Kipchaks and the ancient Huns - but initially we were united by one language and one culture - and then in Russia and then in the USSR the nation consolidated. True and "Russified" very strongly - especially compared to Central Asia - but this is a small problem - the Kipchaks spoke Russian back in the 11-12 centuries and our famous great khans bore names such as Danila or Yuri (Russian mothers gave names - and patronymics, respectively Konchakovich and Kobyakovich) - and nothing terrible happened - and the language and culture are still preserved.
      3. 0
        April 10 2012 14: 45
        Well, not in Russia then, but in Russia.
  2. Goga
    April 10 2012 09: 30
    "Grandfather Ch" really left the most noticeable "legacy" of all famous great figures. In our country, this is especially noticeable - multinationality, multiconfessionalism in our country is a direct continuation of the principles of CH. According to these principles of the empire, it does not matter what gods people pray to, what nation they are - it is important how they fight for imperial interests and how they work for the good of the country. Under such conditions, a talented shepherd could become the head of large military units, a rootless Chinese man could be in charge of the finances of a huge empire, etc. Russia adopted these principles, which largely determined its transformation into a Great Empire.
  3. +6
    April 10 2012 09: 40
    In the history of mankind, there was no other such conqueror who, during one life, created such a huge empire, and then the empire did not fall apart, but continued to grow through the efforts of his children and grandchildren. He has no equal in the history of mankind.
    1. +1
      April 10 2012 19: 35
      Pretty quickly and broke up. A hundred years old and enough.
      1. +3
        April 10 2012 22: 20
        Pancho. Mistakes over three centuries. Regards
        1. 0
          April 10 2012 23: 17
          Касым,вот Вам ссылочкаМонгольская_империя#.D0.A0.D0.B0.D1.81.D0.BF.D0.B0.
          D0.B4_.281260.E2.80.941269.29 Understand, I do not try to somehow gloat on this topic, but still the collapse went almost immediately after the death of Genghis Khan. I still added a period. This does not plead the achievement of the Khan. But there are always heirs who will remain dissatisfied and who will begin to rock the boat (empire). All this was already long before Genghis. Macedonian, Rome, Karl the Great, Qi Shi Huandi, forgive me those who did not mention after themselves left powerful empires that soon disappeared safely after their death.
    April 10 2012 11: 11
    ... The first to recognize the power of Genghis Khan were the Chinese,
    for many centuries the Altai Turks paid tribute to them.
    The emperor was surprised by the ambassadors of Genghis Khan,
    once appeared to him: surprised them
    requirement. And it was as clear as day. Altai
    appointed tribute to the emperor, this "himself
    to an insignificant of people. ”
    Upon hearing such a message, the Chinese lost
    But the Turks returned him. They defeating the Great
    the Chinese wall entered the Middle Kingdom
    empire and surrounded by ninety cities.
    Then they took them. Huge army of chinese
    moaned from her own powerlessness. Riders
    they beat her and quickly disappeared. Warriors of Genghis Khan
    always appeared unexpectedly, suddenly, when
    the enemy did not wait for them. And disappeared from where
    The aliens moved in small units
    in an unfamiliar country, as if in his own way
    own. How did they manage this? .. Accepted
    think that the Chinese invented the compass, but it
    not this way. They did not have a compass! He was only with
    Turks, helping them navigate the stranger
    And here, the wisdom of Genghis Khan was not complete.
    The far-sighted commander knew perfectly
    cities and roads of China. As if he saw them. Fight
    geographical maps helped him
    drawn up by his order. He is at home
    headquarters - in the horde - knew what lay ahead, for hundreds
    His army was confidently moving forward, intelligence -
    also one of the achievements of Genghis Khan! -
    worked flawlessly. Therefore wars like
    such, and was not. The Chinese got hit for
    blow. Always unexpected and always at the very
    sore spot. Big army and not
    The emperor’s officials have nothing left
    how to invite the ambassadors of Genghis Khan and
    agree to pay tribute. To the ruler of Altai
    sent a Chinese princess, 3000 horses,
    500 boys and as many girls. Gold and
    silk did not regret.
    In the conquered part of China, Genghis Khan appointed
    his ruler and instructed him to finish
    conquering the country ...
    It would seem that you can see in
    defeated country? Woe, fires,
    suffering? No. Own greatness and power
    your army? Also no. Genghis Khan would not be
    the wisest of the wise, if in a stranger
    the country did not show his chosenness. God
    revealed to him what other people did not notice,
    although everything lay in plain sight.
    Say, in his honor, the Chinese staged a salute.
    Crackers, fireworks. Millions of people
    For centuries they saw them and were not surprised, but Genghis Khan
    surprised. Because I saw not a cracker, but
    gun. A firearm about which no one
    did not know. I didn’t even know ... In the hands
    the Chinese had gunpowder - the key to medieval
    peace, and they did not suspect about it.
    Genghis Khan taught China a lot. Not once
    surprised him. And the experience of engineers, and skill
    simple masters. Provident Turk
    ordered there machines for taking fortresses, their
    also no one in the world did ... Of course,
    siege machines were in the Roman army
    emperors but they seemed childish
    toys in front of the plan of Genghis Khan.
    “Honors belong to knowledge,” they taught
    ancestors. And the great ruler remembered their words,
    he studied all his life. And he was not shy about it.
    His army is usually described as "wild
    hordes. " And about her technical innovations not
    speak consciously. For example, about
    incendiary shells - ancestors
    artillery ... I need a whole book to
    talk about Genghis Khan commander. It was
    an artist on the battlefield, he always came up with
    something special. Its own. Let's say everyone
    he gave the rider two horses to change them in
    camping trip. And the army became twice as fast and
    more enduring, and her actions - sudden.
    In an ordinary steppe thorn he saw
    new defensive weapons - iron
    spikes. The Turks foiled the enemy’s attacks.
    They shot down any pursuit.
    Everything in his army was special and
    unique. Like in a great workshop
    the artist.
  5. Daka
    April 10 2012 11: 40
    The first empire in the history of mankind in which such world religions as Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and the faith of the nomads themselves peacefully coexisted - Tengrianism.
    1. Churchill
      April 10 2012 13: 10
      It still exists and is called - Russia !!!
      1. Daka
        April 10 2012 14: 15
        If you take Russia as the legal successor of his empire, then of course - yes.
        If not, then Russia is still practically the only power in which the peaceful coexistence of these religions is even possible.
        The main thing is not to give various external forces a real chance to destabilize the situation in Russia, using internal (religious, interethnic) contradictions in society.
    2. -2
      April 10 2012 15: 58
      Genghis Khan did not have any Empire. Even the conquests of Alexander of Macedon can hardly be called an empire.
  6. Gorsten
    April 10 2012 11: 49
    It is interesting, especially that the Mongols did not practice torture of prisoners, in contrast to the conquered peoples. Maybe the booty was divided equally. But in my opinion a certain part was immediately put off by the khanu, something like a common fund, and the rest was already divided ... so to say equally .
    1. -1
      April 10 2012 16: 01
      The Mongols did not have any prisoners. Prisoners were either enslaved, or made soldiers, or killed.
    April 10 2012 12: 04
    He first stopped the feuds,
    tormenting the people. Compiled a set of laws (their
    called "yasoy", "tura", "adat") and announced
    their people. Yasa Genghis Khan was punished for deceit, for
    betrayal for not helping the warrior on
    battlefield for theft.
    For breaking Yasa - death. So did
    criminals in Ancient Altai. The only way
    Genghis Khan decided to act ... Turki
    remembered the ancestors!
    Everyone suddenly became fair to each other
    to a friend: the deaf began to hear, the blind began to see,
    silent to speak. Now they lived along Yasa
    ruler and slave ... They didn’t think about civil strife.
    "The word of my mouth will become my sword," declared
    Genghis Khan. And he was understood correctly.
    "Yasa Genghis Khan" is the Constitution. Today her
    would be called that way. No one in the world
    observed the law as strictly as the ruler himself.
    Even the enemies fell silent, seeing his justice
    authorities. Everyone knew: punishment is inevitable. AND
    no concessions. To nobody.
    But Genghis Khan's greatest deed was not
    Yasa. "People of different faiths should live in peace, -
    he proclaimed. "We will be brothers again."
    Not one ruler of the world was born this
    bright thought: everywhere - both in the West and in the East
    - faith separated people, quarreled them. And here,
    on the contrary, combined.
  8. 755962
    April 10 2012 12: 09
    "If you are afraid - do not do, if you do - do not be afraid, if you do not do - you will die!" Temujin, Temuchin (Mong. Temzhin)
  9. +2
    April 10 2012 12: 19
    "Unlike most of the conquered peoples, the Mongols did not practice the torture of prisoners."
    I had a funny little book describing the torture of different nations. The Mongols are devoted to more than one page.
  10. FIMUK
    April 10 2012 12: 23
    NK with Genghis Khan is less clear to me, but here’s how to beat Tamerlane’s tomb.
    In the above privacy, I read that after opening the tomb and restoring facial features, the sculptor-anthropologist M. Gerasimov was shocked, that is, the facial features were European. only then, in order not to disturb the public, they betrayed an oriental flavor to their faces.
    Fable or not, someone can throw information or links to sane articles.
    1. Dust
      April 10 2012 12: 46
      In general, even now, many "pure" Uzbeks have facial features that are not strongly reflected from European ...
    2. admiral
      April 10 2012 12: 55
      This is not a fable, this is reality! The same story is with Genghis Khan, and with all the Mongols too! Nowhere and never did nomads create empires, because it is impossible! Even if you combine several families in one place, the cattle will gobble up all the vegetation and begin to die! From that they pump, the farther from each other, the more satisfying! If men are taken from such households, women do not cope with cattle and die of starvation with the children. And we are told that Genghis Khan didn’t just take them away, but he took them thousands of miles and years! .. Moreover, there’s no cruelty it will make the nomad do what is not beneficial for him. He will simply collect the monkeys and drive to where no Chinshan can find! What actually happens to all nomads to this day!
      1. FIMUK
        April 10 2012 13: 08
        I read some volumes of the Collection Russia and ROME, there they also indicate inconsistencies in the behavior of the "Tatar-Mongol" hordes, in relation to the captured territories and within the horde.

        I was shocked by the fact that after the capture of Kiev by Batu (if I’m not mistaken), he ordered to immediately rebuild the destroyed tithe church in which the defenders of Kiev supposedly died during the capture.
        and there are a lot of such inconsistencies - it's a pity that official sources are silent and do not want to comment on such facts in a responsible manner, or they simply unsubscribe in "the spirit of the dooram himself"
        I also really liked the theory of time shifts, that is, the recurring role of the same person in centuries past.
  11. +2
    April 10 2012 12: 24
    What torture, heels to the back of the head and lie in the steppe, die with a broken spine. But without shedding blood.
  12. Dust
    April 10 2012 12: 44
    I also doubt that Genghis Khan was - in any case, such as he is represented in official history ...
    April 10 2012 12: 50
    Genghis Khan and his people are usually called Mongols. But ... u
    the ruler had blue eyes and a red beard, this was noted
    eyewitnesses. His father has green eyes, hence the nickname Green-eyed
    (Borjigin). Father and son clearly distinguished Kipchak appearance. Who
    were they really? Not the Mongols.
    The word "Mongol", as the Mongols themselves found out, appeared in the XI century. Not to
    it belonged to the people, and to some clans of the Eastern Turks - to the body.
    Why? Unfortunately, many of the details here are not clear. Maybe,
    calling themselves "Mongols", these clans wanted to separate from the Western
    Turks of Altai with whom they were at enmity. Perhaps the reason is different.
    But one way or another, and in 1206, Genghis Khan said: "The people who
    tied himself to me against everyone; the people who armed my
    powerful thought with its great power ... This people, pure as mountain
    crystal, I want it to be called keke-mongol "(heavenly happiness).
  14. Altergo
    April 10 2012 15: 17
    A rare occurrence - most posts with minuses.
    1. -1
      April 10 2012 16: 04
      In many ways, the personality of Genghis Khan is mythical, so people write all sorts of nonsense.
  15. vladimir64ss
    April 10 2012 15: 29
    Lord. you forget about the hidden nature of power, but Chingoiz Khan is a vivid representative of such power. Therefore, it seems that such an achievement is impossible for a nomad.
  16. ZAVET
    April 10 2012 16: 08
    The Mongols, when they were given writing in the middle of the 20th century, were very surprised to learn about Genghis Khan. Who knows this peaceful people, he has no questions about the existence of a superkhan warrior.
    Just imagine, for 30 years of reign, the khan captured China, Siberia, part of Europe (supposedly reached Venice), northern India. At the same time, it captured ALL countries between these points - Brad.
    At the same time, the Mongols did not have a written language, cities, metallurgy, engineering, etc. ALL THIS APPEARED TO THEM ONLY AFTER A THOUSAND YEARS (according to official history).
    Even stirrups appeared much later, and Mongolian horses - 1,5 m at the withers. This is me.
    I personally like the bike about Tipodrevnimir and Tipodrevnoy Greece more.

    PySy Although the bike about Tipodrevneeiudochristianstvo probably more annoying.
    1. EL GRECO
      April 10 2012 16: 28
      are you crazy?
      1. ZAVET
        April 10 2012 18: 00
        I answer you Negro. The Greeks are genetically NEGRO. And there is no white blood in them and that has never been proved, which is even proven (even on Wikipedia it is written about it). What offends you, that I said that ancient Greece is a myth. Do not cry, Negro))))), it is your genetics that refutes fairy tales))))
        1. +3
          April 10 2012 19: 42
          ZAVET, how did you determine that the Greeks are genetic blacks and in general, what is it? When the Greeks created civilization, your ancestors sat on trees and held onto branches with their tail.
        2. EL GRECO
          April 11 2012 13: 51
          Ha-ha-ha, it's funny! smile Do you have a significance complex ?! laughing
    2. +1
      April 10 2012 22: 25
      Covenant. These horses, 1.5 m at the withers, are the most enduring in the world. They win all marathon distances (from 30 to 60 km.). Please ask knowledgeable people. This is not a fairy tale. Regards
      1. ZAVET
        April 12 2012 13: 54
        My answer is this. There is a certain science called genetics. For example, in Russians, over twenty years of research in the genome, they have not found Asian and Negroid impurities. As geneticists say, short "boring" DNA. but, for example, in the Tatars (although they are Asians) there are impurities of "white" blood, in Caucasian (Negroid) blood there are impurities of Asian, about 5%.
        Each of the races - white, black, Asian has its own DNA strands.
        At the beginning of the 20th century there was a great idea that supposedly all people came from one ancestor. However, more than 60 years ago it was proved by geneticists, anthropologists, ethologists, etc. that the ancestors of different races are different.
        As for my ancestors, Russian ideas are the idea of ​​TELEVISION (Zvorykin), the idea of ​​RADIO (Popov), the idea of ​​COMPUTER-COMPUTER (Lebedev), the idea of ​​COSMONAUTICS-ROCKET CONSTRUCTION (Korolev), the idea of ​​SCIENTIFIC CHEMISTRY (Mendeleev), the idea of ​​SCIENTIFIC PSYCHOLOGISTER (PSYCHOLOGISTER) , the ideas of AIR SCREW, GENETICS, MOTOR, BULB finally, etc.
        The rejection of the Russian ideas of any nation will return the latter to the Stone Age.
        I will add that DNA determines patterns (programs) of behavior.
        FOR EXAMPLE, all RUSSIANS, when discussing the topic, DENY the existence of CHINGIZHAN, and
        FOREIGNERS naturally prove.
        AND THIS IS TOTALLY NATURAL. Each nation, each race has its own interest.
        And they are naturally hostile (interests) to each other. But the artificial division of people, for example, on a religious basis is not normal, since it is not natural.
        1. ZAVET
          April 12 2012 16: 00
          PySy but there is no evidence of the existence of "Greek civilization". Sorry - sirtaki dance (1980 year of creation). So make up a story
      2. 0
        April 17 2012 20: 19
        I agree with you about the horses. Although they will be higher. Without a stirrup, it is not easy for an ordinary person to climb on it. I had to travel through the mountains and taiga on Buryat horses. Amazing animals !!! Unpretentious, smart. Day trip through the mountain taiga in 30-40 kilometers is not a question for her. And the load can be carried up to 80 kg. Taiga Buryats told me that they simply let their horses go into the taiga for the winter. And they eat there themselves. and by spring they return. I asked - what about the predators? To which they replied - "The horse smells like a man and predators are usually afraid of it." By the way. Our usual Central Russian horse does not last a month there. therefore, the breed is very much guarded and watched over there.
  17. Nymp
    April 10 2012 16: 16
    Perhaps the descendants of Genghis Khan (or Genghis Khan if you wish) are proud of their ancestor, as a Russian, I’d rather be proud of the Russian heroes of Kulikov’s field who rolled their neck to these khans!
  18. ZAVET
    April 10 2012 16: 28
    Well done, knowing the world begins with knowing yourself. His gender and nationality. The answer to the question: who am I? Gives a fulcrum in this life.
    Answer: I am RUS (without dividing into Russian. Belarusians, Ukrainians), clearly defines your natural, genetic interest and precisely divides the world into friends and strangers - foreigners (with foreign interests).
    1. 0
      April 17 2012 20: 29
      RUSSIAN has been a sign and principle of SELF-IDENTIFICATION, and not at all a DNA code, for more than one hundred years. It is on this principle that EMPIRE has always stood. Physiology (genetics) in this matter is the third thing. "Historical", "national", "civilizational" memory is, for the most part, a social product (that is, upbringing, education, culture).
      Which, in turn, are, of course, associated with certain psychic imprints and engrams. "Genetic" same "memory" determines completely different and far from social factors of human self-identification. IMHO.
  19. +7
    April 10 2012 17: 16
    Guardians of the theory of the Mongol invasion always asked why the Chinese eat with chopsticks? And only after that, why is Mongolia a hole today?
    As Louis said, three things are needed for war: Money, money, and again money. And whether, as Clausewitz said: war is a continuation of the economy by other means.
    I will gladly bow to the legs of a man who will come up with a believable economy of the Mongol invasion wink wink winked smile fellow describe what resources the conquerors relied on, what technologies they owned, how they got them, where the "weapon of victory" was forged, what kind of weapon it was, that is, the economy of the process wink
    But for starters, for reference, today the population of Mongolia is approximately 2,5 million. at the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries, there were 900 thousand people, in the 12-13 centuries less than 300 thousand people and then all the stray dogs begging for carrion were probably recorded there. Tsiferki were obtained both by the method of studying census data and tax (tribute) deductions, and by direct calculation of the maximum productivity of Mongolian lands under the most favorable combination of circumstances (climate) for such a way of farming as nomadic animal husbandry at the current level of technology and medicine. Nomads are not able to create a centralized power by virtue of the way of managing, by virtue of the way of meeting needs. For this, Gumilev invented his theory of ethnogenesis (mistakenly called the theory of passionarity) in order to laugh at those who continue to believe (this cannot be based on knowledge) in the Mongol empire. His theory is a mockery of traditional historians who postulate the very possibility of a Mongol invasion. And the Mongols? Rob on the caravan trails? yes it is easy, but even with very variable success. The Mongols that they learned about the Mongols only in the 19th century, and how happy they were at how great they were in childhood, oh, forgive me in ancient times, it is not necessary to say at all, the myth of Chinggis is most actively supported today, not even by the Mongols themselves, but by the Chinese. First of all, because without the "Great Invasion" the history of ancient China itself hangs in the air.

    Yes, in other matters, it is a pity to be distracted by such nonsense as discussing silly fairy tales about "non-existent heroes", but for especially stubborn guardians of Genghis I am ready to spend a little time, just so that they would stop littering the heads of readers with garbage. By the way, try to show the etymology of the word Chingis (s), its significant translation (meaning) from Mongolian winked

    Do not rush to swear with terrible words - "Fomenkovism" and so on. an unwillingness to discuss controversial statements will characterize these statements best.
    1. 0
      April 10 2012 19: 09
      Here, finally met a normal opinion.
      Thanks, Lexagun.

      How Makhalych did not correct you, how the panzer spelled "..type" with a pig's snout in a Kalashny row "he yelled at me for a long time."
      Question traditional history .... how can you? nonsense? Academics and their followers, in vain or something, settled down. On this.
      Yes, not Khuhra-Mukhra there, mathematicians, linguists. And pure historians.

      Just thought .... what is the story based on? On archeology. And written sources.
      How can fake paper-literature ... everyone knows.
      And here - archaeologists.
      Where can I find a less productive cultural layer?
      Well, in the same place where the homeless are now swarming.
      Moreover, the layers are clearly dated - 10cm is already a different era, already a different conqueror. And the fact that the goldsmith arrived - and he scooped up a bunch of garbage? Dumato?
      I have nothing against the work of archaeologists; I myself dreamed of becoming one in childhood. The work is hell. With the risk of constantly running into trouble. Poking around in petrified landfills.
      And here - where theorists look? What theories are developing based on petrified shit?
      We will believe a lot of mentality homeless? A modern archaeologist-theorist? Yes, and with foam at the mouth to defend other people's thoughts?

      There is no true story. Not. And fakes - no need.
    2. +5
      April 10 2012 23: 38
      Lexagun. Genghis Khan was a nomad, religion - Tengrianism. And the Mongols are known to be Buddhists. Therefore, I am not going to challenge who he is. Nomads lived by hunting and cattle breeding. About the economy of the nomads. Our main export goods at that time were meat, dairy products, wool (products made of them - felt, fabric), leather goods (for example, the famous leather, Turkish jackets - the technology for finishing leather was brought by the Kazakhs who migrated there during the 1917 revolution. , there is still a large diaspora), cattle (at that time the only means of transport were horses, camels, mules, donkeys). It is a known fact that trousers, like clothes, came from nomads. Metallurgy was developed (the excavations of ancient Otrar, the famous Issyk mounds near Alma-Ata, the Golden Warrior was found, the animal style-exposition in the Hermitage). And in general, according to one version, the smelting of iron came from Altai. Weapons-spears, swords, shields, bows and arrows. Siege weapons were taken over from the Chinese (read Kalashnikov). Such a fact is known from the Chinese chronicle. For the goods of the nomads, rotten silk and cloth from cotton were sent. For which they received several destroyed cities. And also from the Chinese sources the following fact is known - the change of Chinese dynasties took place on the swords of the nomads. As you know, China consisted of 7 principalities. During armed conflicts between them, they tried to hire nomads as the main striking force (since it was horse-drawn and therefore mobile). Impossible, I think, quickly to outline the life and life of nomads. On the other hand, I understand that for many members of the forum this is a dark forest - they do not give it at school, they do not study it at the institutes, sometimes stupid comments appear from here. Therefore, if you want to study To answer this question, then read "The Cruel Age" by Isai Kalashnikov circulation 300000 copies.
      1. +1
        April 11 2012 08: 29
        It’s good that you’re not going to dispute who Genghis Khan was wink Because for this I would have to work with sources, and actually there are almost none, and those that are for the most part cause great doubts.
        But in order wink I absolutely agree with you that the nomads lived by hunting and fishing, but I would like to draw your attention to the following circumstance, this method of satisfying needs has extremely low efficiency and productivity. What determines the practical complete absence of surplus, there is no surplus product, one might say at all. (of course, we must remember that we are talking about the 12-13th century, appeals to modernity will be inappropriate), therefore, the ancients practically did not have a large product, so to speak, the Mongols, and if they changed something, to the detriment of their own consumption. In ancient communities, the balancing act on the brink of survival was more pronounced than it is today. Therefore, it is inappropriate to talk about export goods. Definition Export goods means flows of goods in the economy, and hides exchanged for a couple of skins do not attract export flows. About Chinese sources later. Let me remind you that everyone can be convinced of this "rummaging in the internet" that most of Mongolia is simply not suitable for living and has extremely low land productivity, today Mongolia tops the list of countries in the world (on planets) as a country with the worst living conditions, and having one of the lowest population densities. This is a given and there is no reason to assume that it was otherwise.
        Trade in meat products in the modern version with the slaughter of livestock and the sale of processed (for example, frozen) meat was, for obvious reasons, impossible in ancient times. and driving livestock over long distances (selling it alive) required compliance with a number of conditions, the cattle must be kept on the way and at the place, that is, they must be fed, which means pastures are needed. But if the direction of trade is in the direction of at least China, then there are no free pastures in this direction suitable for the transit of livestock, and it cannot be, they would be occupied by more numerous nomads. To make the problem clear to modern readers, I will explain. Have you all heard the expression "eats like a horse"? So this is true, the Hussar regiment, like the Cossack hundred, consisted of only 100 horsemen due to the fact that it was impossible to feed (without preparing food in advance) in one place (when quartered) a larger number of animals, That is, the poorer the vegetation, the larger areas are needed. Let me remind you that most of the territory of Mongolia is occupied by the high-mountainous desert (with the sharpest both daily and annual temperature drops) Gobi. So where did the surplus product come from that would provide nomadic pastoralists with the opportunity to arm themselves and generally distract from the process of grazing livestock is impossible to understand. Unrealistic scheme. Thus, you can calculate the actual population of medieval Mongolia, which, I cited earlier. I did not bring it by chance, because it is assumed that China was populated much more densely and it had resources repeatedly more, therefore, the source of victory over China, Gumilyov was forced to call a certain passionarity, otherwise - a MIRACLE. This is something like this - a pug barking at an elephant defeated him.
        By the way, the borrowing of leather technology from Kazakhs also indicates a significantly greater development of the surrounding peoples than the alleged aggressors themselves.
        Continued later
        1. +2
          April 11 2012 17: 25
          Lexagun. Genghis Khan, in my opinion, was more likely from eastern Altai. Cattle breeding is what nomads mainly lived in, rather than hunting and fishing, is more fun. Another mistake. When you roam, do not have to stock up on hay. Have you seen our horses? 1,5 m at the withers, their endurance is their main feature. They themselves are from under snow find their livelihood. Heard about the wild horse of Prizhevalsky, the progenitor of all horses. The poorest nomad had 3 horses and 20-30 sheep, goats, a yurt (which can’t be transported with fewer horses) .Trade horses as you sell cars now. Slavs have a horse is a luxury. And the nomad has a vital need. My great-grandfather kept, for example, only horses with a white star on his forehead (there was a bai), and the rest for meat or sale. Another mistake. The population density and resources of China did not play no matter the invasion of the nomads. They locked themselves in their cities. And were afraid to get out of there. The mobility of the nomads passed in one day (changing horses) as much as a foot army in 3-4 days is the biggest advantage over other armies. They evacuated themselves with food and water before they were besieged. During the siege they used prisoners and defectors. Kalashnikov described it well. The main goal is of course extraction (robbery), enrichment. And where did you get the idea that the invasion of China, India, Russia , Persia, Eastern Europe, Korea, Turkey, the Arab lands were committed by modern Mongols. These were nomadic peoples (tribes, clans as you like) living from the Volga and to the Far East, from Siberia to the Tien Shan mountains. So who had more resources is another question. Genghis Khan’s merit lies precisely in the fact that he was able to unite them all and subject them to the same laws, which he himself complied with.
          1. 0
            April 14 2012 15: 51
            Dauren, you are arguing in vain with him. He judges from the perspective of an economist, moreover a modern, but not a historian. After reading carefully, you can find enough mistakes in his comments
      2. orongo
        6 October 2014 16: 11
        I advise you to read Lev Gumilyov.
        "The Cruel Age" is a work of art.
    3. -1
      April 13 2012 16: 23
      three things are needed for war: money, money, and again money

      Sing me a "song" about the developed economy of Macedonia in the early 4th century BC. Or, much closer, about the German economy in the early 30s of the 20th century BC. And note the context of Clausewitz's statement. And less aplomb, colleague
    4. 0
      April 13 2012 18: 23
      Well, minus the minus, but where is the construct?
  20. panzer
    April 10 2012 18: 20
    Bushkov read "Genghis Khan. Unknown Asia." I recommend. The main conclusion is that Genghis Khan had nothing to do with the Mongols. I became interested in this issue and started looking for literature on this matter. And I was terribly surprised when I realized that many "experts" stupidly retell various, "proven authors". Not one of their own, personally verified thoughts! I live not far from the Kulikovo field and somehow got in with my questions, doubts to one of the scientists who wandered there. I do not know what kind of historian he is, but he yelled at me for a long time like proverbs like "with a pig's snout in a Kalashny row". Then he accused me of a lack of patriotism. Iron argument!
  21. vladimir64ss
    April 11 2012 00: 18
    Guys. Denying the former existence of Genghis Khan is ridiculous.
    April 11 2012 00: 23
    Boys! there are so many of us on this site and we are all so smart, but most of all we love to argue and prove with foam at the mouth that we are good compared to others which we are special .. Useless lesson. Let's spend time with benefit, choose an interesting topic, modern, promising, completely unshaped but surely relevant and we will direct the avalanche-like stream of our collective brain to search for ways and solutions, and then maybe something will turn out ... practical. And so ... a natural circus.
    1. +1
      April 11 2012 00: 30
  23. Edumog
    April 11 2012 00: 37
    Hello everyone! Firstly, thank you all for the correct discussion without the insults so widespread on the internet now. I would like to note that it is possible to put forward different theories based on "irrefutable" sources, but such a science as genetics can clarify a lot. Look at the data on the commonality of the Russian and Tatar genomes and the negligible presence of Mongolian genes, which are an order of magnitude greater in Europeans! The same with the characteristic epicant. Where have these great conquerors disappeared? Or maybe they didn't exist at all ?! And the icon depicting the Battle of Kulikovo, can you distinguish the nationality of those fighting ?! No matter how they tried to hide the truth from the people for centuries, healthy logic and a huge number of inconsistencies in the official history, as well as all the new information available thanks to no, put everything in its place! I am happy that I was born Russian, that my great people have the most ancient history, that we have never been slaves, that we respect other cultures, that for us power is in truth!
  24. +2
    April 11 2012 09: 26
    And I wanted to ask a question - why over the centuries people have not ceased to admire the great commanders and conquerors, who, in fact, only brought death and destruction, but at the same time history only remembered a few individuals who were creators, builders?
    As for the specific topic. A reasonable question has already been asked - why did the Mongols, having conquered half the continent, eventually remain still a closed people, not even playing in their region any geopolitical role? And even after the so-called Mongol invasion, the influence of the Mongols virtually disappeared over the course of 100-200 years. Is it too weak for such a massive historical invasion?
    As an example, take the campaigns of Alexander the Great - the influence of Hellenistic culture persisted until the Roman conquests.
    You can not even talk about Rome - Roman influence persisted for centuries even after the fall of Rome.
    The influence of the Ottomans after their conquest even in Europe has survived to this day - in Albania, Bosnia, Bulgaria.
    Then 2 questions can be posed - did the Mongols actually under the leadership of Genghis Khan pass through the Eurasian expanses? And if the Mongols, then in reality it was an invasion or cavalry raids, which subsequently introduced into the category of large-scale invasion?
    Now one more question? Could physically Genghis Khan and his followers at that time possess such human resources to wage such a large-scale war. After all, the peoples with whom the Mongols fought were by no means mannequins on which military skill could be honed. Even if we assume that the Mongols inflicted damage to the enemy 1: 3 (a greater loss ratio in favor of the Mongols could be, only with total technological superiority, for example, like the English over the Zulus in the 19th century), then even after going to China and Khorezm they could not to restore their losses so quickly even in demographic terms, even if involving allied tribes (it was unlikely at that time that the population of Mongolia and their neighbors was higher than now).
    In general, the topic only requires study and comprehensive analysis.
    1. shinsen
      April 11 2012 15: 44
      Prometey. But what about the expeditions of A. Macedon? Also nonsense. A small army from the Balkans passed through the whole of the Near and Middle East to India, making hooks to Egypt and Central Asia, meeting with battles by numerous armies and leaving garrisons in the captured cities, which Genghis didn’t do by the way. Plus constantly founded cities named after his beloved. this is for several years. Yes, the army should have evaporated for a long time, but there was no war. The truth the empire collapsed immediately after the death of Alexander. After all, the conquest of the Mongols could not be attributed to Chinggis. After his death, he expanded his possessions for another 50 years. as for the media, it’s as if the Mongol empire is entirely the brainchild of Chinggis. Yes, it’s the founder, but it reached a maximum under his grandchildren. And again, the media say the Mongols, and the Mongols. Yes, the Mongols are only a part. Desht-i-Kypchak or Polovetskaya the steppe, after all, a vast territory on which a mass of peoples wandered, whose men were born warriors. Of course, they merged into the army of Genghis and his successors. Genghis was still a statesman, he built the state. Unless, for example, a century and a half century, few nomads could not hold China in their hands But Tamerlan, for example, simply made campaigns for the sake of robbery, and did not create any state. But he was well remembered. And the fact that Genghis did not remain in the memory of the Mongols, if that is the case, the devil knows him. The Battle of Kulikovo also seems to be how it was erased from the memory of the Russian people. If researchers had not unearthed Zadonshchina and mentions in chronicles, then maybe we would not know now. And this is in the presence of written language. And from uneducated nomads what you want. wink
      1. -1
        April 11 2012 21: 48
        Partially we can agree about the Macedonians, there are also many unanswered questions. But Alexander the Great had a phalanx laughing which the lightly armed Persians and their satraps could not oppose at that time (let the Yankees make films about 300 Spartans, where half-naked male strippers fight against hordes of Persians - although archaeologists have restored the image of the Greek hoplite - a warrior covered with bronze armor and covered with a massive shield, which easily crumbled light Persian infantry). In addition, what is the world at that time - huge uninhabited territories, so it was possible to march for a very long time without meeting either cities or towns. It is not surprising that the Macedonians traveled thousands of kilometers - although who knows how it really was.
        1. Dust
          April 13 2012 16: 50
          By the way, there was no Macedonian either, just as there were no hoplites - try to imagine how much bronze would be needed for this, which you couldn’t even dream about in the shattered Macedonia of that time, and it’s simply impossible to fight in this rubbish ...
          And the phalanx will not work - this is also fiction ...
          1. 0
            April 13 2012 18: 44
            And how much bronze is needed for one hoplite? For reference - the fighter of the Macedonian phalanx was called pedzetyr. Heavy weapons had only one fighter of dasa (squad), standing in front, the next 15 people in linen armor or leather. So with bronze you got excited
            1. Dust
              April 13 2012 19: 11
              Yes bugger or pedzetyr - what's the difference? Above we were talking about Greek hoplites ...
              Linen armor - and what not from toilet paper?
              A joke about copies? Take the shafts and try to joke her a little bit, and the spear should be much longer and harder! And what to make of it? Have you seen trees of proper length? If you find even, then what thickness is it at the butt?
              Here, while fishing with a thin carbon fiber rod, you unwind your whole hand, and there someone hung a noodle about a spear ...
              1. 0
                April 13 2012 21: 15
                For reference, the main weapon in the melee combat was not a sarissa, but a short sword. With the phalanx they approached the enemy, breaking his order. As for waving a spear or shafting - if you are not rickety - it is not difficult. As a student, working at a construction site, we used a sledgehammer and an iron crowbar for half a day. After 3-4 days of such work, you are already waving your crowbar like a straw.
                1. Dust
                  April 13 2012 22: 15
                  They could only get closer on the field of the airdrome, but there aren’t very many such places on the ground - the slightest roughness and system crumbles! Do not believe me - look at the drawing of the mythical phalanx and its description ...
                  So there could be no rapprochement with the enemy - at best, stand and wait for the enemy to come nearer ...
                  A crowbar is not a spear, slightly different movements must be performed ...
              2. 0
                April 13 2012 21: 37
                And where does the "ragged" Macedonia (your words), if initially you are talking about the Greek soldiers? Greece had enough money (for the time being) to buy heavy armor for its fighters, and Macedonia immediately followed the path of optimization. As for the spear - its weight was about 7 kg (in the army of Alexander the Great). Not much for a prepared person. The diameter is about 3 cm, the shafts are from 5 to 8 cm.
                1. Dust
                  April 13 2012 22: 20
                  No Greece would have enough money to equip the army described in pseudo-antique sources! And there wasn’t enough bronze, and people who could recycle it!
                  What kind of spear are we talking about? A spear for the phalanx - and how could it weigh so much, if not only for the first row? They were made of carbon, or what?
                  Maybe still enlighten. how did geters (inaccurately getirs) on a horse hold with such a spear and other junk in the form of a shield and armor without such trifles as a saddle and stirrups? And most importantly they drenched everyone right and left?
                  1. 0
                    April 13 2012 22: 56
                    Regarding Greece - Do you judge by its current state?
                    The length of the sarissa in the phalanx of Alexander the Great was 3, 6 m
                    Getyrs (inaccurately geters) used xyston, rather than sarissa. And they did not have a shield. Their weapons are sword and spear. From protection Boeotian helmet and shell (on a linen basis)
                    1. Dust
                      April 14 2012 16: 11
                      The construction of the phalanx was improved by Philip II of Macedon, who built an army of 8-16 people in depth. When the phalanx, consisting of 8 rows, spears (sarisses) were about 5,5-6 meters (18 feet); spears of the front row were set at 4–4,5 meters (14 feet) in front of the line of troops, spears of the back row reached the level of this line.
                      Even on Wikis it’s funny to read about it!
                      This was not there - all this was invented much later, and the battles of the Middle Ages were taken as a basis ...
          2. 0
            April 13 2012 21: 07
            Yeah. And the columned closed formation in the era of the Napoleonic wars and the march in the foot - also fiction?
            1. Dust
              April 13 2012 22: 22
              This is not fiction - this is a completely different story! The column is equal, but do not go by train, holding on to the shafts ...
              1. 0
                April 14 2012 09: 14
                The column is equal, but do not go by train, holding on to the shafts ...

                Do you believe that our ancestors were more stupid than a steam locomotive and could not fight in close formation?
                By the way, the choice of disposition for the battlefield lasted until the 19th century. Until this time, we can count on the fingers the oncoming battles that started on the move without choosing a suitable position.
                1. Dust
                  April 14 2012 16: 01
                  The usual closed system is very different from the mythical phalanx!
      2. Dust
        April 13 2012 16: 54
        About the fact that Tamerlan did not create a state - you try to tell modern Uzbek historians!
        If you climb into a historical dispute with such knowledge, then you need at least a little knowledge of the material ...
        1. shinsen
          April 14 2012 15: 48
          I’m not going to prove anything to modern Uzbek historians. And before you try to cheat, you would try to turn your brains on yourself. To control the vast territories around, rob them, solve everything and all this does not mean creating a state. Timur gave his life to exalt Samarakand. He decided to make it the center of the earth. He achieved this, but nothing was created connecting Samarakand with the controlled territories. Therefore, nothing remained after his death. Everything disappeared. Genghis Khan, Makedonsky is one thing, and Timur, Atilla is another.
          1. Dust
            April 14 2012 16: 00
            Yes, you seem to have not even read the official story?
            And the Timurid dynasty, if it was in such a form, as described? It is hard to say how it really was, but the state was not only in Samarkand ...
            1. shinsen
              April 14 2012 16: 31
              Yes, I never read anything. Yes Uzbekistan (Maverannahr) is above all. laughing It is interesting, but if the lands had not been united by Russia and then withdrawn to the same territory by the Soviet Union, how many countries would have challenged the succession of Timur? And you are probably also from timurids. And then a lot of them crawled around the world to no avail.
  25. Evgeniy8104
    April 11 2012 15: 12
    Probably my comment will remain unnoticed, but nevertheless. Today the phenomenon of self-identification of oneself on national grounds and with corresponding views on "life" (friend or foe, Russian not Russian) is very popular. I am not a Russian by nationality, so I am a stranger. But why should I live in a foreign state, and not live in the state of my ethnic group, people with similar views. It may still be better if Russian Russia is a mono-national country, and ethnically different subjects are separate states, and each will build the future of his people. Why do we all live together. This is to the question of the quality of life of the metropolis and colonies, as well as judging by the assessments of the comments. I registered only to express my opinion about I.K. Kalashnikov, which was mentioned by the participants. The book "The Cruel Age" is a historical novel, but not the work of academicians, historians, etc. The writer himself is "Semeyskiy" by origin. However, almost every of his works boils down to the friendship of peoples (including the Cruel Age)
    1. ZAVET
      April 12 2012 15: 50
      Everything is much simpler .... and more complicated.
      For example, ideologically, communism is better than capitalism, but it is not supported by innate genetic patterns of behavior, therefore communism is a fiction, it is not natural.
      It is ideal when each nation will have its own country, land. but this is unreal.
      There is a natural competition. The weak die naturally.
  26. sol
    April 13 2012 09: 41
    On the same site there was an interesting article about the comparative characteristics of the Horde weapons of the Middle Ages, this is to the question of how wild and backward nomads were who knew how to make such weapons.
    In my opinion, many members of the forum cannot reconcile themselves with the fact that once wild nomads could conquer such civilized and developed countries, forgetting that at that time, these nomads were by head superior in terms of armament and tactics of warfare, all the armies of the world that existed at that time .
    1. Dust
      April 13 2012 16: 52
      But the nomads did not know how to make such a weapon! This is a common misconception ...
      1. -1
        April 14 2012 15: 54
        Yes, especially a saber and a compound bow.
      2. 0
        April 15 2012 16: 02
        Is minus really your answer?
    2. 0
      April 13 2012 21: 04
      At that time there was no military-technological lag between the West and the East.
      1. 0
        April 14 2012 15: 55
        It was, but not in favor of the West
  27. olegmatvey
    29 November 2013 13: 43
    Genghis Khan was a vagabond for the first half of his life, he was homeless - just like Stalin. It warms my heart because I'm a tramp too.
    1. 0
      2 January 2014 00: 10
      I doubt very much the bombing of Genghis Khan in his youth. This is just an artistic revision of the writer Ian the Secret Legend of the Mongols, a political order, so to speak ... Yes, and a lot of questions come up with it ... The Mongols received it only in 1942 in the Russian translation of Kozin on the 20th anniversary of the MPR, and then they translated it into their Mongolian language ... Well, as for the 13th century hulk-Mongols, the funniest hulk-Mongols appeared on the territory of modern Mongolia only in the 16th century! It was in the 16th century that the Hajj and Dzungar tribesmen attacked the Manjur because of Khingan. So the Mongols and Genghis Khan missed at least 300 years ...
  28. the bathroom
    25 January 2014 20: 48
    oh, I did not know that the Kazakhs are relatives of Genghis Khan))) for me, something new
  29. Classic
    6 February 2015 08: 27
    Genghis Khan certainly existed. It is impossible to forge chronicles and archaeological evidence in such a vast area. Another thing is that too many myths have arisen around this character. For example, about his supposedly blue-eyed, red-haired and Caucasoid. As they say, they heard a ringing, but they don’t know where it is.
    As for how poor nomadic shepherds managed to organize and conquer half the world, such proven cases in history are well known. For example, the Arab conquests of the 6-7th century. The poor Bedouins from the deserts under the banner of Jihad crushed half the world and extended the power of the Caliphate to such distances that Alexander did not even dream of.
  30. 0
    10 July 2019 10: 55
    When part of the Irkutsk region went under water, the Mongols quietly, without any fuss, took and sent two consignments of humanitarian supplies: flour, meat products, warm blankets and things. In Ulan Bator, a headquarters has been set up to raise funds for the injured, and children's camps are ready to accept up to one hundred children for the purpose of relaxation and acquaintance with the culture of this ancient country. Without a pump. Without high-profile statements on international platforms. Just done. Just by old friendship.

    Therefore, when we talk about friends and allies of Russia - yes, we can recall the French Resistance; the Italian Messina keeps the memory of Russian sailors who were the first to come to the aid of a city dying from an earthquake, a bust of Admiral F. F. Ushakov was installed on Greek Corfu ... But for some reason, Russia sees real help, brotherly help, neighborly only from Mongolia . For which simple human thanks to them.