Military Review

What is the new engine "Product 30" for Su-57

December 4 new Russian fighter 5-generation Su-57 made its first flight with the engine of the second stage. It is known as the "30 Product".

On the first shots of the Su-57 prototype flight with the new engine, it immediately seems that the nozzle of the new TRD is shorter than that of the AL-100.

We see sawtooth edges to reduce radar visibility. Moreover, the size of the faces themselves is not less than the wavelength of the three-centimeter range X-band, which is used in the radar of the illumination and guidance of the majority of the air defense missile systems, as well as in the radar of the homing missiles.

It is obvious that this measure is intended primarily to reduce the visibility from the angle of exposure from below. After all, the usual edges of the nozzle flaps reflect significantly better.

Does it make sense to make the nozzle more compact? Yes there is. Such a nozzle is less noticeable in the infrared range, since it sticks out less because of the plumage.

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  1. Vard
    Vard 25 December 2017 16: 21
    We hardly ever know the details ... But this does not mean that the engine is not coping with its tasks ... We can when we want ...
    1. Ehanatone
      Ehanatone 23 January 2018 01: 39
      And now the youngest YouTube idiots are the biggest experts in products that can be produced by 2-3 countries around the world!? ....... what
  2. svp67
    svp67 25 December 2017 16: 22
    This "masked boy", even that specialist in all military matters, especially in tank building, more than once caught him on the "mistakes". So, I'm waiting for the comments of the "flyers" and those who are really in the subject ....
  3. NEXUS
    NEXUS 25 December 2017 16: 35
    With regards to the dvigunov on our fighters, everything is laid out quite accessible and understandable. And then I agree with this guy that product 30 is the invention of Saturn, and not Salute. Yes, and to upgrade the same AL 31 to a bluish blue will also fail.
    In addition, the PAK FA project itself, and after the SU-57, is largely secret, which also suggests that the product 30 is most likely a Saturnian dvigun. Salute for all this time has not created YOUR new engine, and all modernization is just the modernization of the old AL 31, which can not be said about Saturn. I am convinced that product 30 is a truly new engine, and not an upgrade to the same product 117.
  4. cormorant
    cormorant 25 December 2017 16: 40
    The guy chewed. For a student, the level of knowledge is very commendable. Hammer.
    1. Igar
      26 December 2017 17: 16
      He is 26 years old, what a schoolboy
      1. MoJloT
        MoJloT 27 December 2017 14: 07
        Maybe instead of lessons, I learned the performance characteristics of aircraft engines, that's still tossing at school.
  5. gridasov
    gridasov 25 December 2017 18: 43
    I have to once again state that such a branch of science as fundamental physics has been destroyed in Russia. Therefore, along the technological chain and all other processes in the creation of the engine, they will already go the wrong way. Modern turbines continue to be built on a completely ill-conceived fundamental basis. Why double circuit and create a problem for ourselves, then to solve it. In general, the farther the less you want to talk about this topic at all.
    1. Baikal
      Baikal 29 December 2017 11: 00
      My boobs, Gridastov, an astral engineer, didn’t my native Lviv region receive a handout from the Pindos Embassy and gave out a salary for July? laughing
      Gentlemen, be careful! The delirious man went hunting! laughing
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 29 December 2017 12: 13
        I will explain to you. that the question is not whether I am telling the truth or not, but how different people react to one or another model of presenting information. Therefore, your opinion is a statistical unit, which will then be subject to analysis as a quantitative component. Therefore, I recommend on my own, just do not lose your human moral character and control your speech. Otherwise, you will fall into a group of people with a low potential for mental development, which will affect the overall statistics.
    2. niksfromru
      niksfromru 30 December 2017 21: 40
      In the elderberry garden, and in Kiev .. fundamental specialist in engine building? Today, for atmospheric flights, a two-circuit turbojet engine in the speed range up to 3M is better than a gravitap. :). Even the winners of the Indians, inclined to “electronization” of everything, diligently “lick” the classic turbofan engine, adding “evolutionary buns” to it in the form of a variable bypass ratio (AETD program for running technologies for 6th generation engines)
    HEATHER 25 December 2017 22: 59
    The engine worked out its parameters. There is a refinement on the flow. What are the problems? What they wanted, they did.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 26 December 2017 12: 09
      Everything would be fine and all of these engine technologies would suit everyone. But! If at any time the brains of one individual “open”. and he says and justifies that technology can be more advanced, this is called evolution. The evolution of consciousness and then the evolution of human achievement. The only question that remains is who will be the receiver and initiator of development along a new path.
      1. myobius59
        myobius59 27 December 2017 01: 43
        What evolution, nafig. Look what is happening in our RAS. Look at the faces of these "academics." They no longer need anything except dough. And NEVER they will give way to the new, because this new prevents them from living the old way.
        1. RobertZone
          RobertZone 28 December 2017 20: 24
          So they will soon play in the box and happiness will come. Not? Will the young ones be replaced by them? Where is the crash? ;)
        2. Е2 - Е4
          Е2 - Е4 30 October 2018 15: 55
          look in the wrong place, what does the RAS have to do with it? in our country leadership "RAS"
      2. niksfromru
        niksfromru 30 December 2017 21: 48
        Gone are the days of single geniuses. Now thousands of teams are conducting "reconnaissance in battle" in different directions. And which of them will “shoot” is impossible to predict. For example, TECHNOLOGIES have long been able to create effective supersonic passenger aircraft, but the problem of the impact of a shock wave when passing through a sound barrier does not allow them to be operated in densely populated areas. And they rarely fly to Antarctica;)
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 3 January 2018 23: 12
          I believe that everything is the other way around. Thousands of teams work on programs announced from above. .Therefore, truly rationalizing ideas in such processes = are present. However, it is loners who find the fundamental solutions and away from the hustle and bustle. It is necessary to penetrate the issue. It is necessary to analyze large volumes of information. An intellectual breakthrough cannot be made in collective structures. However, the processes of development and development undoubtedly take place in teams. And these phases need to be separated.
          On the issue of overcoming the so-called shock wave, the question rests on the technology of depolarization of the aircraft body relative to the potential of the flight space. This is me so in general because the explanations usually cause a storm of indignation at the forum site. Few people understand that highly dynamic processes cannot be subjected to analysis methods appropriate to them.
          1. yehat
            yehat 18 January 2018 18: 27
            sound transition is a lot of problems. do not think that there is only one.
            and about the collective and the loners - you are wrong. Alone now are capable of only one thing - to find a solution that is not obvious, but has matured based on the work of the team.
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 18 January 2018 19: 10
              You are absolutely right . It is impossible to create a new discovery or invention without relying on extensive and systematic information. Otherwise, these are fantasies. Therefore, I always remind. that the basis of any, and even more so breakthrough discovery and invention can be a person’s ability to see the fundamental principles of the device and the physical foundations that will change it. Therefore, I’m talking about the fundamental principle of any innovation process, this is the method of working with large amounts of information. This means that the key aspects of those technologies and processes that are used now and which can be transformed into more efficient processes are considered. In general, I would say that these are rather new TRIZ technologies, but based on the mathematical principles of working with large volumes of information. . Therefore, of course, it is impossible to tear or belittle the work of collectives and people in different industries. Nevertheless, as you know, the "miraculous enlightenment" of reason does not immediately happen to everyone.
              1. yehat
                yehat 18 January 2018 19: 35
                method of working with large amounts of information

                yes what are you talking about. I am one of the few whom the USSR was preparing to work with "large volumes." There are few such people and there is little place for them in the country and there will never be many. And if there are few of them, their contribution is a statistical error.
                You can collect unique ones for the development of 2-3 key technologies, but in general in the economy you won’t be able to put on the flow. Yes, and it’s not easy for them to live - the part does not withstand and falls off into alcohol, into a fool, or simply suicide. This is the price for "large volumes." Part gets tired and changes life. Those who work directly are very few and they need the support of society, and society now mostly prefers to rape them. Remember the insulting nicknames "nerd" and in the same spirit.
                innovation cannot be built like that. They are only useful, but not a key element that accelerates the scientific and technical progress,
                1. yehat
                  yehat 18 January 2018 19: 39
                  none of my colleagues work for their intended purpose (I know about 200 people), 4 are engaged in science, but in the usual framework, 8 more are more likely to be assistants than scientists. Here is such an exhaust from this "effective" process.
                2. gridasov
                  gridasov 18 January 2018 21: 02
                  You are mistaken here. If you are smart enough to digest a lot of information, then believe me. that does not go crazy. I believe that it is not worth explaining that a computer with a system of dynamic analysis of events will never be created if the mathematical foundations of its work are not changed. Quantum or any other is the same dust in the eyes. The mathematical basis will be based on binary code. Therefore, information can be mathematized only on multipolar transistors and the principle when the pulse will be transmitted the identity of the number. . Yes, I admit that it was very difficult for me to understand that a person is not yet able to perceive such concepts. But! This is inevitable. And I do not wonder where and why it all happens.
                  I generally study such processes when a person understands the need to build an inextricable mathematical space, but I am not able to understand what needs to be investigated and what is the basis of such decisions. Even more interesting to me is that you are considering a natural series of numbers, but you are not able to see the spatial system built on these numbers. And why doesn’t anyone use the construction of radial spatial systems to replace rows of the same number Pi or a sequence of primes and much more. All this means that what you call a resonance can be expressed by a system of algorithmic constructs, and the resonance itself is when complex systems in their development form harmonious transition states. Therefore, when the conversation is about engines, engineers do not see those moments when, having reached a positive extremum in one process, it is necessary to change the planes and directions of already new processes. Hence the problems in the analysis of any point, not only in iron, but also in that space which is energy in it transformations. On linear thinking, a person cannot develop further. Mankind has entered a period of such capacious physical processes and interactions, when it is necessary to improve, first of all, its ability to see reality, and therefore to see the complexity of the diverse dynamics, the contrasting polarization of processes and at the same time find the optimal ways of making decisions. But in reality the opposite is true. Computerization has already led to the degradation of free thinking and augmented reality has turned into a distorted one on the basis of which a person "developing" falls into degradation. And we will encounter these consequences in the next generation of people, if not to say that we are already in this position.
  7. monahsb
    monahsb 3 January 2018 17: 25
    expert, don’t tell you to listen to everything you know answers to any questions 1 in 2000 the Saturn factory got the name Rybinsk MOTORS for it .... when creating the UEC STC AM LULKA left Rybinsk leaving him the name Saturn 2 So here Saturn when developing a new engine 3 with NPO SALUTE AM LULKA work together 4 Chinese version is the original AL31 engine and later reworked 5 for 30 years of work on testing AL engines from an expert I learned what draft, double-circuit, cooling the combustion chamber, perforation of the blades and a lot of new and interesting things are NOT MIXES if such a specialist will work as a designer, aircraft will die engines from the background of AL31 which has an all-round nozzle with SALUTE not related to the new engine, we test photos and parameters where you will not see, not for that they are secret
  8. AlexVas44
    AlexVas44 20 January 2018 11: 34
    I got it! The nozzle is shorter, the sawtooth edges are longer. You give the second stage! drinks
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 4 August 2018 12: 21
      Quote: AlexVas44
      I got it! The nozzle is shorter, the sawtooth edges are longer. You give the second stage!

      Well done! Take the pie from the shelf! We clearly understood that the engine only comes down to the nozzle - there is nothing inside the gondola laughing wassat
  9. Photon
    Photon 28 September 2018 18: 24
    Quote: niksfromru
    Now teams of many thousands are conducting "reconnaissance in force" in different directions.

    Yeah ... !!! belay I have not seen thousands of teams conducting reconnaissance for 27 years request