Military Review

In the “Donbass denouement” came the decisive moment. "Moderate" counterbattery otvetkoy now can not do

110



All forecasts regarding the winter intensification of hostilities in the Donbas theater of operations and their escalation into a new phase of escalation of the conflict, made in the last quarter, continue to be confirmed almost to the smallest detail. And despite the fact that in comments to numerous analytical publications and reviews of the operational situation on the fronts of the Lugansk and Donetsk people's republics, one can still find ardent supporters of the Minsk and Norman formats that have outlived themselves, the tough military-political reality continues to dictate its “big game” rules where our western "partners" masterfully fool the Russian side and the republic's military leaderships are already 3-th year. What results from participation in all these “peaceful actions” we observed by the end of the current year?

The White House’s Donald Trump’s “Minsk Process” commitment, which he stated during his meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel in March 2017, evaporated as if by a wand of a magic wand immediately after signing the package for supplying Barrett M12,7A82 rifles to Kiev with a sighting range in 1 m. If to speak directly, December 1500 Washington once again showed us its attitude to the majority of projects in which at least some participation of the Russian side can be traced. However, this face was demonstrated a week ago, when the Canadian government approved the delivery of the "independent" small weapons along the line of intra-military sales of the North Atlantic Alliance (including selected non-aligned friendly states). As we have already pointed out in one of the previous works, in this case Ottawa can act as a kind of shadow mediator supplying Kiev with any class of American lethal weapons (including the same FGM-148 "Javelin" anti-tank missile system, corrected 155-mm projectiles M982 "Excalibur" or 120-mm adjustable mortar shells (PERM), which does not appear in an official document providing for the transfer of small arms only.

As for the 155 mm caliber, we advise you not to be mistaken, since despite the prevalence of the 122- and 152-mm artillery in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Kiev plans to start the transition to the NATO 155-mm standard soon, and the first stage will be the purchase of Polish SAU "Krab Or their AS-90 type towers licensed by the Polish company Huta Stalowa Wola (HSW).

We also received the preservation of the junta’s control over Mariupol (from 6 September 2014) and the favorable location for Kiev of the artillery positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine just a few kilometers from the Gorlovsk-Enakiyevskaya and Donetsk-Makeevka agglomerations, which allows for regular ironing of the positions of the militia of the People’s Militia DNR, residential areas of the capital of the republic, as well as, if necessary, “reach out” to the rear transport hubs in the central and eastern parts of the LDNR. Not allowed to move the artillery ukrov positions on 30 - 40 km east of Donetsk “Minsk” caused hundreds of deaths in the front-line zone. And now the situation does hang in the balance. Having suffered a significant defeat in the Syrian theater of operations, where the pro-American "Syrian Democratic Forces" even with the help of military-technical support of the coalition air forces and the United States, failed to gain a foothold on the west coast of the Euphrates (with the possibility of further unification with At-Tanfa ), The USA now makes all bets on taking revenge in the conflict in the Donbas, which is also planned to be used as a tool to destabilize the situation on the Russian borders on the eve of the presidential Companies in March 55.

Preparations for the new criminal action in Kiev are the most ambitious for the last 3 of the year. In particular, against the backdrop of Poroshenko’s announced reinforcement of the APU grouping near the contact line, the Vestnik Mordoviya publication, citing sources in the DPR Defense Ministry, reported on the restoration of the junta’s powerful artillery “backbone” consisting of more than 520 - 530 122- and 152-mm ACS (more than 220 2C1 "Carnation" and 300 2C3 "Acacia"). There is also a massive artillery preparation for the republics prepared about 80 heavy long-range ACS 2S7 "Peony", 17 2S5 "Hyacinth-S", 35 2S19 "MSTA-S" and 30-35 2S9 "Nona-S". And in accordance with the data of OSCE observers, supported by information and photo / video materials received by public figure Alexei Zhuravko from eyewitnesses from the Kherson region, all this equipment is actively being transferred to the occupied parts of the Luhansk and Donetsk People’s Republics. To conceal what is happening from the eyes of the Ukrainian population, the so-called “Mikhomaydan” continues to play a rather important role, performing a diverting function. And no matter how many different media claim that Saakashvili is the main instrument of the American special services for putting pressure on Valtsman (Poroshenko) on various issues, real events point to his completely different purpose - acting in a single link to fool the population.

Let's judge objectively. Where has it been seen that a person who is denied entry into the territory of a certain state, quietly “breaks through” the border with the support of a gang of aggressive supporters, and even with an attack on border guards? A similar circus is seen in an attempt to capture it by the supporters of the October Palace in the center of the Ukrainian capital, which Saakashvili himself argued with the desire to hold in this building "an event involving the wives of military political prisoners." Pseudo-attempts to arrest a famous Georgian war criminal looked no less ridiculous, stupid and absurd. Then they unsuccessfully tried to “pack it into a paddy wagon” escorted by a company of armed special forces, after which its activists miraculously allowed to break the door of the car and free Saakashvili. That he is released after 2-s days in jail and one day in court. And such measures are being taken against a subject who openly declares the need to overthrow the current Ukrainian regime.

Then, December 15 of 2017, as if nothing had happened, Saakashvili expresses a “desire to negotiate with Poroshenko to avoid the country being pulled apart,” also focusing on the need to “save one side.” How do you like this dashing turn? As a result, 22 December 2017 of the year, the Dutch newspaper “De Telegraaf”, citing the Ministry of Security and Justice of the state, announces the issuance of Saakashvili Netherlands visa. It could only say that the first batch of the Ukrainian “match” of the “tangerine fighter” was completed. The request for a Dutch visa was smoothly adjusted to the desire to reunite with her family, because his wife Sandra Roelofs is subject to the Dutch crown.

Now, for a simple Ukrainian inhabitant, Saakashvili is turning into a kind of “Carlson” with great connections in the USA and Western Europe, which allow him to break free from the shackles of Valtsman, and without fear of harassment from the SBU and other security forces, temporarily leave the “independent”. But “Carlson” has absolutely no plans to fly away, which was announced by Saakashvili’s associate and former Deputy Prosecutor General of Ukraine David Sakvarelidze by the evening of December 22. Neither Sakvarelidze nor Saakashvili mentioned the validity of a visa, while the Dutch foreign minister, Halbe Zeilstra, confirmed that the state was ready to accept Saakashvili without a visa, as his wife was Dutch. Saakashvili was quick to declare that despite numerous invitations to senior posts in the United States and European states, as well as proposals for citizenship, these tasks are not top priorities for him, and this indicates a continuation of the theatrical performance with the participation of “Miho-superhero” for a long time to broadcast on the Ukrainian zombie TV for a particularly gifted part of the population.

At this moment, the contact line in the Donbass from the Ukrainian side is rapidly saturated with not only artillery, but also armored units, which include the main combat Tanks T-72M1 equipped with elements of 4C20 dynamic protection of the 1st generation "Contact-1". Based on the fact that the equivalent resistance of the frontal projection of the tower from armor-piercing and cumulative shells for these tanks is 390 and 800 mm, respectively (taking into account the Contact-1 DZ), which is a very weak indicator compared to the same T-72B with EDZ 4S22 “Contact-5”, which are in service with the corpses of the NM LDNR. But the nuisance is that there are more than 72 of the Armed Forces of the Armed Forces alone in 550 different versions, more than 60 of which, most of them are being quickly decommissioned for use during the upcoming escalation. And this is about 75-1000% of the total tank fleet of the republics (approximate figures). If we add another 1200 to 64 available T-145B / BV / BM, as well as 147-80 gas turbine T-1250B / BV equipped with GTD-80 reinforced engines (used as the power plant of our T-2U), then Kiev turns out to be about XNUMX-fold superiority in tanks alone.

As for the barrel and rocket artillery, its total quantity in service with NM LDNR is approximately 1,5 — 1,8 times less than that of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (taking into account the canned units); only field artillery (towed howitzer guns D-20, D-30, Msta-B and Hyacinth-B "and anti-tank guns MT-12" Rapier ") at the junta near 900 - 1100 units. This is quite enough to support the general offensive along the entire length of the contact line (and 4 - 5 dozens of backup batteries will remain!). But as we noted earlier, the offensive throws in the direction of the Gorlovsko-Enakiyevskaya and Donetsk-Makeevka agglomerations of the APU will not have enough opportunities, since it is here that the main anti-tank and assault "fists" of the NM of the DPR are concentrated.

Therefore, all Ukrainian artillery in the vicinity of Gorlovka, Donetsk and Dokuchaevsk today is designed to slow “soften” the defensive potential of the above “kulaks”, demoralize the personnel of the republican army, genocide of the Russian population of Donbass, and also attempt to divert units of the 1 Army Corps MO DNR from the most weakened and vulnerable from a tactical point of view directions ("Telmanovsky Isthmus", new azovskogo operational direction). The Telman direction is still in the zone of greatest risk due to the small operational depth of 30 — 35 km. Even with the correct construction of the NM DNI anti-tank frontiers, it will be extremely difficult to keep the enemy on the contact line in this direction due to the 3-xfold numerical superiority of the core of the APU deployed in Volnovakha, which can be partially supported by units from Sector M (Mariupol).

This is where it becomes clear that only experience and savvy against an enemy armed to the teeth (in 2 — 2,5 times the number of vehicles and 3-3,5 times — the number of personnel) cannot solve the situation. In particular, during the first large-scale artillery preparation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (when more than 10 - 20 batteries of the junta’s receiver and rocket artillery are used), the counter-artillery “response” of the DPR gunners will not be as massive as due to the smaller number of artillery units, and due to the fact that a good half of the artillery units of the DPR army are set aside from the contact line in connection with the observance of the “Minsk format”. Consequently, now the defense ministries of the republics (first of all, the Ministry of Defense of the DPR), it’s time to think about returning to the front line of the entire artillery component. But this, under the circumstances, will be extremely insufficient.

Today, not only numerical superiority plays into the hands of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, but also noticeably increased accuracy of artillery work, which is achieved by using territorial reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicles, AN / TPQ-36 "Firefinder" anti-battery radar, and, if necessary, the American strategic drone RQ-4A "Global Hawk" with a tail number UAVGH000, which can provide the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with coordinates of artillery installations and concentrations of armored vehicles of NM DPR with accuracy of a couple of meters using airborne AN / ZPY-2 radar in SAR mode. To establish parity, armies of the republics urgently need adjustable 120-mm mortar mines KM-8 "Edge", as well as a number of corrected artillery shells (from "Kitolov" and "Centimeter-M1" to "Krasnopol-M2"). Otherwise, the safety of the population and the sustainability of the buildings of the NM LDNR will be a big question. And, judging by the events of the last days of the outgoing year, Moscow will be forced to take extremely tough retaliatory measures, both to maintain stability at the southern borders of the Russian Federation, and to save the republics of Donbass.

Contrary to any attempts by the Russian side, as well as the leaderships of the Lugansk and Donetsk People’s Republics to reach a compromise with Kiev regarding the settlement of the situation in Donbas, the state’s “hawks” were still able to put their destructive sticks into the wheels of any positive scenarios for reducing tensions. In a fairly short time, they still managed to persuade the Trump administration to sign the 47 million-dollar military aid package, the main point of which is to transfer 35 anti-tank missile systems FGM-148 "Javelin" and 210 ATGM for them to Kiev. It is clear that after the actual defeat in the Syrian company, Trump can only blindly fulfill the demands of ardent Russophobes from the State Department and the US Congress regarding Ukraine. Otherwise, the current head of the White House may have every chance of losing the remnants of a critically low 35% rating and be in a very bad position in the face of democrats eager for impeachment.

Information about the upcoming approval of the “delicious” weapon package for the “Square” appeared on December 11, 23 on the American television channel ABC News, citing sources in the US Department of State, but the official decision from the department seems to be received in the period from December 2017 25 2017 January 1, or early next year (after approval by a majority vote in Congress). The likelihood of the adoption of the document is extremely high. What can this lead to LDNR? If we consider the situation from the point of view of the average observer, the 2018 units of transport-launch containers “Javelin” with 35 ATGMs are not capable of drastically changing the operational situation in favor of the Ukrainian militants. If, however, to evaluate all this with a tactical eye, it becomes clear that even this insignificant number of transport-launch "tubes" is quite enough to fairly effectively support local offensive operations on one or two operational directions of the Southern Front of the DPR. Why such a conclusion?

First, in contrast to the anti-tank units of NM DPR, which are in service, the XFUMOT XFXXX9, 111X9 XMTC, 113 X9M Konkurs-M and 113K9-115 Métis-M, using radio cell systems, using radio radios, using radio radios, using radio radios, using radio radios constant sight of the operator from crystalline solution cadmium mercury telluride (CdHgTe). This range is especially effective at work at significant distances and in difficult meteorological conditions. Consequently, the principle of “let-forget” is implemented, which provides for an instant change of the position of the operator with the complex in the next few seconds after the execution of the shot. The anti-tank operators of the above-mentioned domestic complexes should, for 2 - 9 seconds, hold the target at the crosshairs of the optical reticle, synchronized with the night or day sights, which may later reveal the location of the ATGM trajectory or the infrared flash when the starting engine is turned on. The problem is that the operator cannot change the firing position until the target is hit.

This means only one thing: if offensive operations are carried out in the provincial infrastructure, as well as assault operations against the NM base posts of the DPR in such settlements as Kominternovo, Sakhanka or Telmanovo, Ukrainian military formations (with the entire 6 - 8 Javelin ATGM) can act several times more flexibly. Thanks to the use of the “let-forget” method of “getting” Ukrainian anti-tank fighters in Javelina, it will be quite difficult, while the latter will be able to start firing from completely unpredictable directions and foreshortenings. Javelina also has a flaw that affects the firing performance of the complex: we are talking about the need for 25-second cooling of the GOS with a coolant for its effective operation not only with “hot”, but also with slightly contrasting ground objects. During these 25 seconds, the situation in a separate area of ​​the theater of operations can change simply beyond recognition (for example, our Metis-M has a much higher rate of fire in 3 rpm).

However, this does not negate another important advantage of the American anti-tank complex FGM-148 - work on armored and shelter targets using the 45-degree dive mode. This mode not only makes it difficult to visually detect the approximate location of the position of the anti-tank player, but also makes it possible to effectively hit moving units hidden behind natural relief objects or urban buildings. In the conditions of urban confrontation, such a property is simply indispensable, given the fact that a “soft” start is provided by optimizing the burning of a solid-fuel charge of an expelling engine, enabling firing from small rooms. Moreover, the dive allows you to hit the main battle tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and bunkers in the upper hemisphere. In the case of tanks, the strike with a leading cumulative charge, and then the main one, is produced in the most vulnerable upper projection, part of which is not blocked by RS “Contact-1 / 5” elements, and if it is blocked, then a thin 70 - 80-mm upper armor plate is all Equally does not provide protection against penetration.

Under such circumstances, it is possible to protect tanks and crews of the people's militia units of the LDNR solely by equipping the first with promising active defense complexes, which even in our army are available only on “Armata”. An excellent solution can field assembly homemade heat absorbing screens of more than a dozen layers of karemat and multilayer sheets of food foil. Such screens are capable of absorbing infrared radiation in the long-wavelength range 8-12 μm with a rather high uniqueness, which was confirmed in one of the articles published in the newspaper “Soviet physicist”. Another method is the use of heat-emitting combustible substances (ignition of diesel fuel), or the use of various types of infrared traps.


"Chrysanthemum-S"


But it's not so simple here, because the FGM-148 is a smart rocket, and the onboard computer located in it definitely has various software filters that allow to distinguish the thermal silhouette of the target from all sorts of traps. At this point, the question becomes more complicated. One thing can be said with precision that in the fields of the Donbass steppe terrain of the “Javelins” with their insignificant radius of operation in 2,5 km completely lose their effectiveness and relevance, and therefore the “mirror” transfer of the above-mentioned corrected artillery shells and the same self-propelled complexes to the defenders of the DPR and the LPR “ Chrysanthemum-S ", which has an all-weather and range in 6000 through the use of a millimeter radio control channel, can allow Donbass to end the war much faster and with less losses in the corps, t and to the civilian population.

Information sources:
http://vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-22490.htm
http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/javelin/javelin.shtml
http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/concursm/concursm.shtml
https://lenta.ru/news/2017/12/05/freemiho/
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110 comments
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  1. aszzz888
    aszzz888 25 December 2017 06: 40 New
    17
    ... all normal people are tired of these endless "cease-fires", everyone knows that the Ukronazists did not and will not observe ... Only one thing is acceptable - STRENGTH, and it must be opposed to the Nazis - to mercilessly ignore this ...
    1. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
      Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 25 December 2017 08: 06 New
      11
      It is clear that LDNR citizens are tired of the cease-fires, but this can go on for years.
      But the trouble is that 72's alone in various modifications have at their disposal more than 550 APUs, most of which are being quickly decommissioned for use during the upcoming escalation.

      As for the number of T72 tanks, the author was enough over the edge. There are no more than 200.
      One thing can be said for sure that in the fields of the steppe region of Donbass, “Javelins” with their insignificant radius of action in 2,5 km completely lose their effectiveness and relevance, and therefore the “mirror” transmission to the defenders of the DPR and LPR of the above-mentioned corrected artillery shells and the same self-propelled complexes “ Chrysanthemum-S ”, possessing all-weather and range in 6000 due to the use of a millimeter-wave radio control channel, can allow Donbass to end the war much faster and with less losses as in the buildings, t and to the civilian population.

      Yeah, they throw their hats. APU can only be broken by the Russian army, but not the LDNR corps.
      1. horhe48
        horhe48 26 December 2017 08: 43 New
        +7
        You don’t throw anyone hats now. But you need to prepare seriously. And without any buildup. The author is 100% right. They like the Ukrainians or not, but the US hawks will still force them to attack Donbass before the election of the Russian President. Most likely in January - February. More precisely, let intelligence determine it. The EU-sheep, hiding behind all sorts of "Minsk" there, gave time to the waltzman and comp. to prepare the "Croatian script." And the states are in a hurry. Everything is carried out in concert and in unison. Such is the political background. The military component, however, is to inflict unacceptable losses on the Armed Forces of Ukraine, especially in armored vehicles and artillery, and when they are settled in battle, carry out an “peace enforcement operation.” But it’s not so with the Georgians. I still don’t understand for what purpose Medvedev stopped the troops at 40 km. from Tbilisi, when all combat-ready Georgian units were defeated? What did the Georgian "elite" fall in love with Russia after that? No, as they asked for NATO, they do as well. They need to finish off the enemy in his den. And then transfer power to sane politicians.
        1. Sargas
          Sargas 1 January 2018 02: 07 New
          0
          The buildup is undoubtedly needed. But it is necessary to “swing” in advance, for which all varieties of intelligence services receive a salary.
          And then ... - and then, politicians make the decision ...
    2. Maz
      Maz 25 December 2017 14: 32 New
      10


      And that's it, the half-wars will be lost by ensigns, sergeants and rear officers, and the rest of the wunderwafers will be the same. Download instructions for the Javelins, Hawks and other barrels, all this will be thrashed all over the week after entering the ATO troops
      1. Naum
        Naum 29 December 2017 10: 53 New
        +1
        You just need to publish DLNR price list with good prices for the purchase of these javelins and CB and guarantee the safety of sellers. I am sure that in a month they will sell ALL! And fires are burning in warehouses. Fire will write everything off!
    3. boboss
      boboss 25 December 2017 15: 50 New
      +1
      ... everyone hoped for ... partners
      1. dSK
        dSK 25 December 2017 21: 50 New
        +5
        Quote: boboss
        on ... partners
        "The Ukrainian authorities have already signed an agreement with the United States on the deployment of a military base in Ochakovo. And there you can place both tanks and aircraft. Unprecedented, but true: for the first time in Soviet and post-Soviet times, the United States is increasing its military influence at the borders of Russia, 400 kilometers from the strategic facilities of our country. Such actions will be much more serious than the supply of weapons to the Ukrainian army. "(Channel "Tsargrad" 19: 49., 25.12.17/XNUMX/XNUMX)
        1. Antares
          Antares 25 December 2017 22: 40 New
          +1
          Quote: dsk
          The United States is strengthening its military influence at the borders of Russia, 400 kilometers from the strategic facilities of our country. Such actions will be much more serious than the supply of weapons to the Ukrainian army.

          C'mon, when Crimea was organized and the Donbass, wasn’t it clear that in this case the Ukrainians would only welcome bases in the cities of Kharkov and Sumy (very close), and here Ochakov is a little further. Was it not clear that the conversion of neutral into an enemy? And will the largest land border have to be truly guarded? And there is no longer a 600 km buffer and at least a neutral Slavic country.
          Arms deliveries are really a trifle before the global defeat due to loss (surrender) and mutual transformation into the image of the enemy of the largest Russian-speaking state after the Russian Federation. Here is such an HPP.
          1. Krabik
            Krabik 29 December 2017 12: 10 New
            +1
            The country was not neutral, it was created by Germany after World War I in the occupied lands of the Republic of Ingushetia.

            Only the genius of Lenin could to some extent extinguish the Nazis, but after the collapse of the whole policy of Ukraine was directed against the Russian Federation.

            Now we have already stopped feeding “not brothers”, as before, and began to demand our own, and rightly so.

            And your master will, at the opportunity, let him go to the slaughter, as in Syria or Libya or Yugoslavia.

            No one except the Russians will not talk with "no brothers", and perhaps we will not, either.

            Will be like Syria ruins and mountains of corpses ...
            1. Antares
              Antares 31 December 2017 00: 41 New
              +1
              Quote: Krabik
              The country was not neutral, it was created by Germany after World War I in the occupied lands of the Republic of Ingushetia.

              and prescribed her a neutral status and took out a nuclear arsenal ... laughing
              Ukraine until 14 was almost "51 state of the Russian Federation" with its blackjack unless
              Quote: Krabik
              Will be like Syria ruins and mountains of corpses ..

              you think this is good? for HPP it is either 3 world or problems for the Russian Federation
              Quote: kotvov
              they just wanted to sell Crimea to the amers,

              personally traded, but did not agree on the price smile
              1. Krabik
                Krabik 31 December 2017 01: 37 New
                0
                Let me explain something on your fingers.

                There is a territory with badgers living there.

                This territory belonged to the owner nicknamed "Uncle Kolya".

                The owner twisted his leg and began to languish.
                Neighbors under the guise of steel prey on his badgers.

                In short, Uncle Kolya from diseases as a result gave the oak and in his place came his son with the nickname "Male Vovan."

                Vova says to the boys - boys, my badgers, you can hunt, but grandmas pay me for the skin and meat.

                Guys do not want to pay for the skin.

                Do you think the boys are ready to go out of control and not pay for hunting badgers?
            2. Uxus
              Uxus 4 January 2018 10: 29 New
              0
              Neighing, thanks)))
          2. kotvov
            kotvov 29 December 2017 13: 45 New
            0
            Come on, when Crimea was organized and the Donbass was it not clear that in this case, Ukrainians would only welcome bases in the cities of Kharkov and Sumy (very close) ,,
            what are you talking about? which is neutral neutral, they just wanted to sell Crimea to Amers, and there the bases would appear on the territory of the former Ukraine. we just got ahead of Sasha.
          3. Sargas
            Sargas 1 January 2018 02: 13 New
            0
            Even the [planned] deployment of the American base in Sevastopol - flowers. The berries were supposed to be Russia's complete loss of access to the Black Sea.
            And this is even more serious than "tanks 400 km from ..."
  2. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 25 December 2017 06: 54 New
    12
    it's time to think about returning to the front line all the existing artillery components
    It seems to me that in DLNR they are not suicides, therefore this issue is either being resolved or resolved. Honestly, these "Minsk" only allowed the Ukrainian side to come to their senses and strengthen the Armed Forces, which made an unforgivable mistake (showing that Russia is a peacemaker, not an aggressor), which will result in a lot of blood.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 25 December 2017 08: 18 New
      0
      maybe tourists (500-1599h) have already ridden, with a load, in the Caucasus paragliders, hang gliders or gliders (according to Skorzenni), etc.
      “walk” to the rear for 3 and 20 km can make a difference?
      1. Nikolay Fedorov
        Nikolay Fedorov 25 December 2017 15: 19 New
        +2
        Quote: antivirus
        maybe tourists (500-1599h) have already ridden, with a load, in the Caucasus paragliders, hang gliders or gliders (according to Skorzenni), etc.
        “walk” to the rear for 3 and 20 km can make a difference?

        Samto understand what he said, etc.
        what kind of signs and skipping elderberry garden uncle Kiev laughing
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 25 December 2017 16: 20 New
          +2
          USE in action?
    2. boboss
      boboss 25 December 2017 15: 54 New
      +3
      ... but LDNR were also being built ..... and it was time to turn to South Ossetia
    3. Natalia777
      Natalia777 25 December 2017 19: 35 New
      +2
      There will be no big blood. Donbass very well dug in the siege. The advancing party suffers losses 8 times more than the besieged. And the third and fourth side will help the Donbass. And the Ukrainians themselves will surrender their positions and the Javelins will sell and ...
  3. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 25 December 2017 08: 15 New
    +3
    I don’t understand how LDNRs are held under almost constant shelling.
    Effective counter-battery struggle is necessary. Artillery radars, drones and adjustable ammunition. As with us, so are we ... They decided to "Javelinam" us and feel it?
    And the Barettas? So the miners in the heaps have buried something!
    1. Chichikov
      Chichikov 25 December 2017 08: 59 New
      11
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      So the miners in the heaps have buried something!

      If so! Yes, and counter-battery ...., at best, one DLNR battery, against several VSUshnymi. A more or less successful answer is described as the everyday and clear advantage of the DLNR in artillery and training. And the fact that behind these successes, in such an unequal battle, is the personal courage of the guys, they somehow forget.
      Well, vague thoughts should be diluted with pleasant ones! True, this is from the constituent congress of the Union of Volunteers of Donbass, but somehow I did not notice a similar message on the VO. After all, many were worried then.

      The commander of the sabotage unit Vladimir Gutarev (call sign Shaman), whom we nearly buried during the fighting in the Donbass.
      “Yes, I survived, then I was just a miracle,” Vladimir says. - The bullet crushed his shoulder, covered with an explosion. Climbed out.
      1. Mih1974
        Mih1974 25 December 2017 16: 52 New
        +6
        Let's separate the flies from cutlets - the Russian leadership in the person of the president said that "we will not allow the people of Donbass to be killed," which means - the devil knows. Maybe this means Russia’s entry into the war on the side of the Donbass at a critical moment, although the territory there is small and you can easily "not have time". Maybe this means deliveries of "free Ossetia and Abkhazia", ​​and under this business, anything can be shipped, from the latest tankifications to the "Iskander" (and what to walk like to walk).
        Unfortunately, the Supremes do not care about the fact that Victory is forged by blood and often by the Life of heroes in the trenches. unfortunately, the authorities always look at it from above and “consider it to be“ hundreds of thousands. ”For the top, the tragedies of a particular person, often“ quiet and forgotten, ”are those who die every day under continuous shelling. The authorities think“ broadly ”and“ agree to the deaths of dozens, hundreds, to avoid the deaths of thousands, "but thousands still die anyway. I personally, as a" small person ", can only sympathize with the tragedies of the inhabitants of Dogbass and wish them good luck and luck.
        Personally, I am very sorry and sorry that - I do not decide to help them, make them part of Russia, and I do not decide to launch a missile strike at Kuev at the places of deployment of the main fascists.
        I am also very sorry that I am not making the decision to launch a nuclear missile strike on London and England in general. In order to illustrate what we will do with this NATO if they stick into Ukraine (and I would like to see a thief there who was called oligarchs and banks in which the money was stolen by officials). am
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 25 December 2017 20: 23 New
          +1
          hunting more than bondage
          MAY NOT BE SUCCESSFUL IN DONETSK, but BE SUCCESSFUL FROM Bryansk and Belgorod to the Dnieper.
          and I’m embarrassed to ask --- maybe from a dig on Kherson ??
          1. Mih1974
            Mih1974 31 December 2017 21: 44 New
            +3
            And here you are replacing concepts. Let's figure it out: 1) the ukrovermaht attacks the Donbass in a “Croatian race” - in a couple of days (suppose) they manage to break through to the main buildings in Donetsk and Lugansk — hang a “stub of a Swedish standard” on them and STATE the whole World about their “Victory” !! If Russia doesn’t have time to beat the ukrovermaht before this public statement, the Western full-time propaganda machine (remember 08 * 08 * 08) will begin to mix Russia with mud before we even say or do anything. I feel in the morning - EVERYTHING from the West will start calling to the Kremlin here and neatly but persistently Threaten am . And now, according to your scenario — Russia is delivering a cutting blow from Crimea to Kharkov — yes, the APU will simply crumble like a house of cards, but the problem will be that it is precisely this “attack on the peaceful Country of Ukraine” that is being sought from us by “aggressive Russia”. Actually, for more than six months, different smart people have been saying - we (Russia) are already sucking in and ruining the destroyed Ukraine "well, take it," and we - we are pushing back and "we have collapsed ourselves and pay." Again, if ukrovermaht even “declares victory” and the subsequent partisan war to get bogged down, then destroying them from the Crimea, from any other part of the border will not be a big problem for us. (again, if as I have been “suggesting” for a long time - to strike first with calibers at the head army in Kiev and at the US embassy and the Gestapo). and now what I’m talking about 2) Russia manages to strike at the attacking fascists, refuses to recognize the "victory of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" and broadcasts VIDEO live with the Donbass banner over Doentsky and Lugansk live. good . At the same time, the "north wind" of "arms supplies from free Abkhazia", ​​etc. - will be the "norm" and allows you to "save face"
            Hence the sad conclusion - I do not know HOW, but LDNR is simply obliged to prevent the Nazis from breaking into Donetsk and Lugansk. Even if they find special ammunition "in the mines" - consider this an acceptable option, despite the inhumanity of its use.
  4. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 25 December 2017 08: 27 New
    +7
    And how to understand the author’s phrase
    [/ quote] Not allowing ukrov to move artillery positions on 30 - 40 km east of Donetsk, Minsk caused hundreds of deaths in the frontline zone. [quote]
    He knows what east and west are, and where are the Kiev troops?
    1. Wildfox
      Wildfox 25 December 2017 13: 33 New
      +2
      I was also surprised by this writing)) But somehow I’m already used to writing on the net. hi
      1. CT-55_11-9009
        CT-55_11-9009 29 December 2017 09: 41 New
        0
        Well Damantsev, without such blunders he does not do a single article.
  5. orphan 63
    orphan 63 25 December 2017 08: 40 New
    +8
    Well, then it’s time for the millionth Liberation Army of Citizens of Ukraine to clean up their home. They have been honing their military skills for more than three years on our territory. Let them go to protect their native land, their homes, their grandfathers, women and children.
    According to reports from LDNR, it seems that only old people and children live there. But in all the major cities of Russia, everyone from the workers in the underground is already .... to say the least, they are tired.
    Or again they will wait, what is for them, but instead of them without them ?!
    We are waiting for meetings of the "brothers" in Moscow, St. Petersburg and then everywhere - Putin, bring troops to our home, and we will sit here in Russia for now ?!
    PS Sorry, boiling up. Armament must be provided, and let them fight themselves.
  6. Bootlegger
    Bootlegger 25 December 2017 08: 45 New
    +2
    Ukrainians are preparing a repetition of the Croatian plan-ooluya. exactly according to the old scenario.
  7. groks
    groks 25 December 2017 10: 29 New
    +5
    The author has a monstrous dump. He started with Saakashvili and came to the home manufacture of DZ, AZ and thermal screens.
    The version about Misha’s distraction is not consistent. Whom is he distracting? Bandera? From other Bendera ....
    The technical advantage of the APU is overwhelming. On ammunition and even more so. It was and is. They need Western arms supplies as a fact of their support.
    They cannot use all this just because there will be huge sacrifices of civilians. And this shines The Hague, maybe not immediately, but it shines. Therefore, it is necessary to involve the West in the process - they gave a lethal weapon, which means they approved the demolition of Donbass at the root.
    1. Sergey53
      Sergey53 25 December 2017 11: 20 New
      0
      The author proceeds from the fact that it is possible to talk about the organization of defense, and what should be done to a minimum for this. The question arises of obtaining these funds?
  8. tolyasik0577
    tolyasik0577 25 December 2017 11: 30 New
    +5
    Jewels can be useful in the hands of a motivated fighter. All the power of the APU in the hands of a demoralized warrior is just a piece of iron. The first quite tangible response from the LDNR army can reduce to "0" all the advantages in technology and people. The situation is compounded by America’s political advantage over Russia. America can supply anything; it is not forbidden to them. Russia, by any supply of weapons, incurs the propaganda anger of the whole West. Spit on everything, put LDNR the most modern weapons and equipment. The attitude of the West towards Russia will not change even if Russia ceases to exist. If the battle is inevitable, it is necessary to prepare for it thoroughly. About the US aircraft do not stand on ceremony at all- Shoot down the fuck. And shoot down the air defense forces of Russia, For nefig!
    1. alstr
      alstr 25 December 2017 12: 07 New
      0
      The most fun, which seems to be scary. Javelin supply approved. As many as 210 missiles (what modifications are not yet known). And then it’s not so scary. Launchers only 35, i.e. 6 missiles per launcher.
      Question - And how long does the launcher live in real combat conditions?
      So it turns out that the Javelins are unpleasant, but not deadly.
  9. Ural resident
    Ural resident 25 December 2017 11: 50 New
    +4
    I don’t know what will happen next. Unambiguously, in the election month, the Donbass will be ironed with special cynicism up and down, and there will be a howl for the whole world - this is independent of Russia's participation or non-participation.
    Putin’s cold "concentrated" restraint these days is really capable of turning voters' voices in the other direction. Who will restrain them - their Wagner PMCs? ”“ Now the APU is not the same as in the 14th, it is fraught with heavy losses.
    It’s not clear what the KhPP is - we won’t be allowed to send peacekeepers there, without them, shelling will continue for decades — there will be a lot of money from the states. It is clear that Russia can’t do without Russian intervention. And it seems to me that if something happens, then before the elections, in January-February.
  10. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 25 December 2017 12: 01 New
    +3
    the author of the article is too pessimistic. Yes, there are many tanks, but their quality is the question. just before an armored battalion arrived at the Guards training range. On the third day, all the tanks stood rooted to the spot. They sinned on fuels and lubricants, it turned out that all the tanks had engines not of the 1st category, as indicated in the documents, but of metal of unknown origin. And there are hundreds of such cases. In artillery a similar situation. 55th art brigade, brigade only on paper. 4th Division - all garbage. Both people and technology. Moreover, the 55th is considered the most prosperous, because it is constantly supported by Motor Sich
  11. Al shurshun
    Al shurshun 25 December 2017 12: 12 New
    0
    Quote: aszzz888
    everyone knows that the ukronazists did not and will not comply ...
    it was nice to decide on the terminology - who is
    everybody knows
    and what signs distinguish
    ukronazists
    from other citizens of Ukraine in the Lugansk and Donetsk regions repeat
  12. Al shurshun
    Al shurshun 25 December 2017 12: 26 New
    0
    Quote: Resident of the Urals
    It is clear that Russia can’t do without Russian intervention
    and Russia something in Ukraine to intervene repeat
    1. Urs
      Urs 25 December 2017 13: 02 New
      +4
      But what about the Georgians, if it were not for the military intervention of Russia, then there would have been no Abkhazia, no Abkhazians (sorry if I didn’t name it correctly), plus an unstable aggressive situation on the border.
      And now there is quite calm and peaceful construction is underway, so to speak.
  13. Urs
    Urs 25 December 2017 12: 56 New
    +2
    The article is right Pts is not bad with a claim to a tactical forecast of the upcoming hostilities.
    True, there is an element of advertising of the American anti-tank systems, but it is so unobtrusive.
    But in general, I agree with the author in the case of full-scale hostilities, it will be very hot there, and therefore without the help of Russia and aviation or other high-tech weapons.
    And as it does not sound blasphemous, forgive me the inhabitants of Donbas, you have no choice either a bloody fight under the slogan "victory or death" or complete humiliation and genocide in filtration camps.
    Both that and another are badly very bad, but this choice will have to be made, but it is better now. sad
  14. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 25 December 2017 13: 07 New
    0
    A lot of pessimism in the article. Of course, it was previously assumed that the Armed Forces will be larger than the LDNR Armed Forces, the number of weapons (including heavy) is greater than that of the militia, but don’t say it, but it’s a regular army, plus scumbags and mercenaries from all over the world ... .but there is one BUT .... quality with which both sides are fighting and motivation
  15. Dimka off
    Dimka off 25 December 2017 13: 46 New
    +3
    or maybe when using the Croatian scenario, Russia uses the Syrian?
    1. Normal ok
      Normal ok 25 December 2017 14: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: Dimka off
      or maybe when using the Croatian scenario, Russia uses the Syrian?

      And it’s better immediately Martian.
      1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
        GELEZNII_KAPUT 26 December 2017 14: 44 New
        0
        Quote: Normal ok
        Quote: Dimka off
        or maybe when using the Croatian scenario, Russia uses the Syrian?
        And it’s better immediately Martian.

        Well at least not lunar!
  16. Normal ok
    Normal ok 25 December 2017 14: 09 New
    +1
    How tired of this nonsense to see. Here, for each paragraph, we can say that this is at least a stretch. Just a long time ago there is no desire to comment. I can only say that a lot of what is written here goes into dissonance even with other articles on VO on this topic.
  17. Santor
    Santor 25 December 2017 14: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    I don’t understand how LDNRs are held under almost constant shelling.

    I’ll tell you a secret ..... Locals will learn about the overwhelming amount of shelling from ... Facebook ...
    1. Chichikov
      Chichikov 25 December 2017 18: 06 New
      +2
      To put it mildly, not miracles ... Have you ever been under one shelling? We have in the city, although not so often, but there is. Look at Gorlovka and Donetsk!
      1. Antares
        Antares 25 December 2017 22: 46 New
        +2
        Quote: Chichikov
        Gorlovka and Donetsk!

        similar to Avdeevka, Volnovakha.
  18. dmitry.kashkaryow
    dmitry.kashkaryow 25 December 2017 14: 27 New
    +6
    Do you think the Slav brothers think that the Russian government has ripened a time to declare to the UN a memorandum that the Russian people are tired of empty conversations with optional partners and that Russia will act on the basis that Ukraine is an integral part of the Russian world against which the Anglo-Saxons are aggressively undermining from the inside out? The fact that Russia ceases all negotiations and further actions of the Russian government on the former territory of the Russian empire is considered its internal affair and will stop the intervention of foreign states by armed force? The fact that all regional governments in the former territory of the Russian Empire that pursue a non-loyal policy towards the Russian government are illegitimate and that Russia has the right to restore order at its discretion?
    1. Santor
      Santor 25 December 2017 14: 32 New
      +3
      How to direct the blood of soldiers and officers? The question is - and then those released will poke a fork in the back and at every corner? on ...
  19. Maz
    Maz 25 December 2017 14: 35 New
    0
    Quote: Chichikov
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    So the miners in the heaps have buried something!

    If so! Yes, and counter-battery ...., at best, one DLNR battery, against several VSUshnymi. A more or less successful answer is described as the everyday and clear advantage of the DLNR in artillery and training. And the fact that behind these successes, in such an unequal battle, is the personal courage of the guys, they somehow forget.
    Well, vague thoughts should be diluted with pleasant ones! True, this is from the constituent congress of the Union of Volunteers of Donbass, but somehow I did not notice a similar message on the VO. After all, many were worried then.

    The commander of the sabotage unit Vladimir Gutarev (call sign Shaman), whom we nearly buried during the fighting in the Donbass.
    “Yes, I survived, then I was just a miracle,” Vladimir says. - The bullet crushed his shoulder, covered with an explosion. Climbed out.

    We must start with the leadership and those who stand behind them. And then send volunteers, military assistance and other. There, the mess must first be stopped.
  20. Santor
    Santor 25 December 2017 14: 36 New
    +2
    the author, as always, heaped up tsifiri immeasurably ... I even look at Lenta.Vru sources ... I damn the toilet paper from fear ... According to the Javelins .... A capricious little thing, whose lithium battery is designed for 4 minutes of life.
  21. lieutenant colonel
    lieutenant colonel 25 December 2017 14: 38 New
    +7
    As far as I understand the situation in the Donbass - more on an emotional level than in the logic of events - in 2014, after the Crimean spring, the country's leadership really wanted to stop there ... At all costs! Because there was a clear awareness of the impossibility of war with the fraternal people ... or rather, with one people. It is unlikely that the Ukrainian mentality is different from the Tver or Pskov residents. It's just that the leaders are too different from each other. After all, it could have happened that in 2000, Nemtsov ... Gaidar ... Yavlinsky ... Kasyanov ... became Russia’s leader and scooped Russia with a full spoon that is a multiple of what is happening in Ukraine. Is not it so?
    That's why such an unreasonable “softness” towards the National Bats and my recognition of Pedro Alekseich as president ... Remember the film (story) The battalions ask for fire ... The company has truth, but the battalion commander, and the commander of the deceased regiment has truth. .. But the commander was the hardest. And what about the army commander ?? Now imagine the head of state ... We all have recipes and a clear understanding of what we would do in this situation ... Only understanding is at the maximum level of the battalion commander ... Without taking into account the economy, national interests, geopolitics, space, development Defense industry, the presence of the personnel component, the situation on the eastern border, the reaction of other players (China, India, Finland, Poland), etc.
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 25 December 2017 14: 52 New
      +2
      Your logic can easily explain and justify all the actions of both Gorbachev and Yeltsin. The giraffe is big, he knows better. Who are we? So, at best, battalions.
      1. Hottabych
        Hottabych 25 December 2017 15: 26 New
        +3
        Rudolph, Lieutenant Colonel explained his logic in the first paragraph. And if we discard all emotions and hatred of Nazism (for which those who molested us make a calculation, they know very well how the Russian people relate to Nazism), then it becomes clear that the same people live there like us. And hacking off the shoulder is a huge responsibility and an even greater risk.
        1. rudolff
          rudolff 25 December 2017 15: 33 New
          +1
          That's it! People like us live there! Moreover, it was impossible to leave them there under Natsik and without any help!
          1. rudolff
            rudolff 25 December 2017 15: 42 New
            +4
            In 2014, Putin was given a historic chance, if not to unite one people, then get a reliable and good neighbor at his western borders. And this chance was mediocre profucan! And his clumsy statements, such as "our soldiers will be behind us," only contributed to this massacre. In fact, he raised people, gave them hope and abandoned!
            1. Hottabych
              Hottabych 25 December 2017 16: 04 New
              +3
              So they came to the same thing again - that all these arguments are from your bell tower, and what can come out of your script, you can only guess. If we take into account from the circumstances given by the lieutenant colonel, at least, economic ... How many have swelled already in the Crimea? That's right, they took it - you need to finish it. But the economy is wobbling and even more so undermining it. You say: “tighten the belt,” and many here on the forum think differently. They need a sacrifice that brought them to poverty. Some of them are working out money, some are being spent, and some are really offended by the authorities. But change the power now, it will begin even worse for us.
              And this is only an economic circumstance, Rudolph ...
              1. rudolff
                rudolff 25 December 2017 16: 47 New
                +2
                Hottabych, and where did they "swell"? It was necessary to counteract this fascist coup and preserve Ukraine as a friendly state. It was not necessary to “swell” anything into it; it would be enough just to not break the existing economic ties and the cooperation of economic sectors.
                As for the Crimea, consider all the money "invested" in it as an investment. The peninsula has all the prerequisites for becoming a donor region from a subsidized region in the near future.
                1. Hottabych
                  Hottabych 25 December 2017 17: 39 New
                  +3
                  It was not necessary to “swell” anything into it; it would be enough just to not break the existing economic ties and the cooperation of economic sectors. [/ quote]
                  Sorry, Rudolph. Are you from the moon?
                  1. rudolff
                    rudolff 25 December 2017 18: 46 New
                    +2
                    Hottabych, don't take it out of context. If it were possible to maintain the power of the incumbent president and not contribute to the coming to power of these pomp, no economic ties would be broken. At least with a significant part of Ukraine. And with sanctions, the West would break off. Recognizing Poroshenko’s election as legitimate if there is a legitimate president who has not been legally deposed is a fatal mistake of Putin. Or intent.
                    1. Hottabych
                      Hottabych 25 December 2017 19: 15 New
                      +2
                      Rudolph, maybe a mistake ... Or maybe not. I repeat once again that we do not know much. And my opinion is that you should not blame someone for not doing something. Worse when you did and it led to a terrible tragedy. In the end, everyone understands who made the porridge in Ukraine!
                      Of course, I’m far from the president))), but imagining myself in his place, I’m even afraid to think about such a situation of choice. And I understand -
                      what a responsibility it is! Make a mistake and do it wrong, get trapped, and you will remain forever with this in history.
      2. lieutenant colonel
        lieutenant colonel 25 December 2017 16: 02 New
        +2
        No ... "Gorbachev and Yeltsin" are precisely those presidents with whom Ukraine is so "lucky". Each new one was worse and the thieves of the previous one.
        I tried to understand the actions of our leadership in 2014 ... That's exactly how I took it, you - in a different way. And is it your opinion that is exclusively correct and impeccable? Remember, in 2014 in our public opinion there was still the Serdyukov army, with the exception of the green men. No one knew her true capabilities. No one knew the capabilities of the airborne forces, calibers, the level of combat training of the units, and most importantly the command readiness. We NOW know what we are capable of.
        And secondly, I talked about the events of 2014 and our then position. Now, for some reason, I’m sure that Russia is more inclined to resolve the conflict precisely by force option, unlike Ukraine. And it seems to me that Ukrainian (and Western) analysts continue to live in ideological cliches and patriotic slogans, not perceiving the changed realities. The United States and the "united" West with the Russians (after Syria) will not fight. And the DPRK is an example of this. Again, this is my pure opinion. I do not pretend to be perfect.
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 25 December 2017 16: 23 New
          0
          No ... "Gorbachev and Yeltsin" are precisely those presidents with whom Ukraine is so "lucky"
          and Cohly don’t erect monuments to them
          1. lieutenant colonel
            lieutenant colonel 25 December 2017 16: 47 New
            +4
            And now what? There are generally smashing monuments!
            For the most part, Ukrainians still remember the Soviet Empire ... From here they have these phantom pains of empire, but there is no greatness except “dug up sea and massepandera” ... here’s the sausage of the former Russians ...
            1. orphan 63
              orphan 63 25 December 2017 17: 57 New
              +6
              For the most part, Ukrainians still remember the Soviet Empire ... From here they have these phantom pains
              that's just not empire, but freebies under the empire.
              Under Khrushchev and Brezhnev, all Soviet republics, and primarily their native Ukraine, lived better than the Russian Federation and at the expense of the Russian Federation. According to my principle, this is mine, and yours is our common. Hence the habit, which has turned into a character trait, that Russia owes them all. Hence the constant blackmail and extortion - give preferential loans, and then forgive / write them off, give gas, oil, and everything else that we lack at preferential prices.
              Moreover, any help is perceived not with gratitude, but as receiving mandatory alimony, which can and should be requested.
              Only there is no longer a USSR freebie for any of the former republics, Russia does not want to support them. That sausages them all, because at one’s expense none of the former can live well.
              And the same thing happens with the East Europeans from the former socialist camp, and with many others whom the USSR fed earlier.
              1. Antares
                Antares 25 December 2017 22: 53 New
                0
                Quote: Orphan 63
                Under Khrushchev and Brezhnev, all Soviet republics, and especially their native Ukraine, lived better than the Russian Federation and at the expense of the Russian Federation

                Khrushchev Russian from the Russian Federation. There was no RF then.
                The Ukrainian SSR was preferable for capital investments on climate and SOEs. Also in terms of population density and infrastructure development. All the same, everything served the USSR. All enterprises were subordinate to Moscow and worked for the common cause. Everyone had one idea, and still it was that you were Ukrainian or Turkmen.
                showdowns in the style of who fed whom are fashionable for contention. So by the way, they pulled away the Ukrainian SSR from the RFSR (so that Ukraine fed)
                Now the RFSR fed the Ukrainian SSR, so that you don’t let that return a single country.
                1. lieutenant colonel
                  lieutenant colonel 26 December 2017 12: 14 New
                  +2
                  In this link he showed “who fed whom” ... In addition to the RSFSR, only the Kyrgyz lived worse, although it was Russia that was the main donor — 17,15 produced and received 11,8. Ukraine: 12,4 - 13,3 ... Georgians are handsome! 10,6 - 41,9
                  Khrushchev and Brezhnev are Ukrainians. Design Bureau Antonov - created in Novosibirsk and only in 53 was transported to Ukraine.
                  All refineries were built on the borders of the USSR, that is, not in Russia, it was more economical to sell gasoline on the border than to transport from the backwoods of Russia in fuel trucks ... This is such a trifle ... purely for reference
                  http://voprosik.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/2.
                  jpeg
                  1. Antares
                    Antares 31 December 2017 00: 49 New
                    0
                    Quote: Lieutenant Colonel
                    Khrushchev and Brezhnev - Ukrainians

                    so when the Kursk region can be returned to Ukraine? laughing
        2. rudolff
          rudolff 25 December 2017 17: 03 New
          0
          lieutenant colonel, Gorbachev was lucky both in Russia and Ukraine and many others. Russia was lucky with Yeltsin. In part, Poroshenko, this is a faint likeness of Yeltsin.
          I did not understand your mention of the VKS, Gauges and the level of combat training. Firstly, after two Chechen conflicts with Georgia, an endless series of exercises and tests of combat readiness, one could already form an opinion.
          And secondly, the army would come in handy on a very limited scale. It was impossible to let this revolution take place. Or return Yanukovych to Kiev or send him to the Donbass. He wouldn’t go anywhere. And in no case could Poroshenko’s election be recognized as legitimate! We ourselves legalized this coup and these fascists in power. In 2014 there was a historic chance! Well, now it’s impossible to predict the development of the situation.
          1. lieutenant colonel
            lieutenant colonel 26 December 2017 12: 27 New
            +3
            1) in the first Chechen company, Russia threw unshooted youth into battle, in the second Chechen company tactical battalion groups of detachments (mainly from contract soldiers) were already created. In Georgia, we completely lost the electronic warfare - sometimes troops and weapons were controlled by mobile communications using GruzinTelekom SIM cards (the rest of the communication was drowned out), and several Sushki were unprotected in the EW plan. Some commanders, including the commander of the group, fought autonomously at their own peril and risk. And then there was no “endless series of teachings”, but there was an endless series of reductions and optimizations. The Treasury of the General Staff of the Armed Forces was successfully completed - it was reduced by 50%, the officers were lost, the training of everyone, except for the military experience gained before that, was at least 3 years ...
            And then, remember that both local experts and foreigners wrote about us - iron trash, hazing and theft ... Therefore, Russian Syria happened on the VKS so unexpectedly for everyone ... And you ... all Pooh Ba -Bah ...
          2. Dmitry Fedorov
            Dmitry Fedorov 31 December 2017 20: 10 New
            +1
            Or let Bender’s idea go bad. It is unlikely that 70 years will be required.
            The process has begun. The smell is already specific.
  22. RoTTor
    RoTTor 25 December 2017 15: 43 New
    +1
    Alas, a preventive move is needed.
    Like the Israelis in June 1967.
    Winners are not judged!
    BUT Woe to the vanquished
  23. Ferym
    Ferym 25 December 2017 16: 47 New
    +3
    I have a feeling that Russia will have to intervene, however much we would like to. One could help with aviation, as in Syria.
  24. samarin1969
    samarin1969 25 December 2017 18: 55 New
    0
    Reasons for optimism are not visible. Russia (leadership) after Mariupol makes concessions and does not receive anything in return. The realities of the people's republics regarding militias are even more depressing.
    According to the Ossetian scenario, only the ghostly threat of the North Wind restrains the APU from the temptation of cutting attacks.
    Russia could at least carry out maneuvers at the north-eastern borders of Ukraine, in Crimea. This would force the "armored fists" to disperse in different directions. All Donbass would be easier.
  25. Natalia777
    Natalia777 25 December 2017 19: 23 New
    +6
    Who is fooling anyone - this is a big question. For the West to fool the Russian side, the Russian side needs to believe that Minsk-2 will be fully implemented under the control of the West. It was V.V. Putin who fooled them all when he made Minsk-2 sign. Minsk-2 fulfilled its tasks. First, he stopped the great massacre, when 30 or more hundreds of people died on the day. Second - Donbass is recognized as an opposition to Kiev by international organizations and EU countries and even the United States. Third, Minsk-2 made it possible for the citizens of Ukraine to understand that the European Union will not accept them and Ukrainians are not needed by anyone other than Russia. Fourth, during this time the Donbass formed and acquired signs of statehood, which gives it the right to become the successor to the State of Ukraine when the Kiev Junta, which came to power in the blood as a result of a coup, is dropped and becomes the center around which all of Ukraine will unite. So the political game about Ukraine is just beginning. And if someone is tired and cannot wait any longer, then let him catch fleas. Just in catching fleas, haste is needed.
  26. Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 25 December 2017 19: 35 New
    0
    another "all gone"
  27. JETFLAG
    JETFLAG 25 December 2017 19: 43 New
    +1
    People! In Ukraine, the book Heydrich was published Full rehabilitation !!! This is the founder of the theory of the destruction of the Slavs and one of the curators of the OST plan !!! the world in Ukraine has gone crazy !!! Ssuko - 330 hryvnias !!! I myself saw a bookmaker on the site !!!
    http://naspravdi.info/novosti/na-ukraine-pytayuts
    ya-obelit-iniciatora-holokosta
    1. Antares
      Antares 25 December 2017 23: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: JETFLAG
      This is the founder of the theory of the destruction of the Slavs and one of the curators of the OST plan !!

      in fact, the organizer of the Jewish question.
      there is no Holocaust denial in the book. This is a genre of historical journalism. There are a lot of films and books about this person, including Soviet ones.
      The author claimed his opinion. A lot of IMHO, as usual in this genre.
      The book must first be read, and by name to cut off the shoulder that the author for the Nazis is stupid.
      Here is a description even on the site
      A completely new look at the life and work of Reinhard Heydrich. This book is designed to debunk myths and return Germany's stolen history without propaganda and distortion of the true facts. New facts, which will come as a surprise to many historians, based on documents from the archives of many Western countries, will shed new light on those and other events. Each event or fact has documented evidence.

      One of the key myths that has not been refuted to this day is the legend of the Gleivitz incident, where Heydrich allegedly plays the main role. It took a lot of time to search for facts proving the fact of execution. Good luck smiled. Found it. But they found a fact proving the impossibility of this event. Yes, it really is a myth. One of the chapters describes in detail why the Polish form was really needed ...
      The attempt and murder of Heydrich with new facts from the head of the Special Commission for the Investigation of the Murder, taken from the CIA archive, is described in detail.
      A separate chapter is devoted to the Wannsee Conference, where the fate of European Jews in the Holocaust was allegedly decided ..

      But why am I ...
      shoot laughing
      About the topic. The APU will not do anything, much less attack. Amplification just in case. You never know. Extra Javelins will not hurt. But this is pure PR. For American help there are not quite expensive reinforcement options.
  28. JETFLAG
    JETFLAG 25 December 2017 19: 46 New
    +1
    Here, admire how low they fell, treacherous scumbags!
    http://www.knigograd.com.ua/index.php?dispatch=pr
    oducts.view & product_id = 294163
  29. Nemesis
    Nemesis 25 December 2017 21: 25 New
    +1
    And who is to blame for the fact that this happened ?! And those who played the Minsk agreements with Bandera, who gave Bandera time to equip and train their army, are to blame, instead of sending troops to the Donbass and Kharkov in 2014 and returning these historical territories of Russia to the Russian Federation ...
    1. Alexander Borisov
      Alexander Borisov 30 December 2017 20: 26 New
      0
      While Russia is weak economically, it will not pull New Russia. Germany still cannot fully adapt the GDR.
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 30 December 2017 20: 27 New
        0
        If you throw off the Chubais, Russia will also pull Alaska ... In addition, port cities such as Mariupol are income, not loss
  30. Sergey Cojocari
    Sergey Cojocari 25 December 2017 23: 07 New
    0
    Quote: rudolff
    Hottabych, and where did they "swell"? It was necessary to counteract this fascist coup and preserve Ukraine as a friendly state. It was not necessary to “swell” anything into it; it would be enough just to not break the existing economic ties and the cooperation of economic sectors.
    As for the Crimea, consider all the money "invested" in it as an investment. The peninsula has all the prerequisites for becoming a donor region from a subsidized region in the near future.

    I wonder why would this be? All suddenly go to the Crimea on vacation? I doubt however. Can they find oil and gas? Also not obvious. What then? Rosstat will add a toe?
    1. Alexander Borisov
      Alexander Borisov 30 December 2017 20: 23 New
      0
      That's right, tourism and oil and gas are also there, and besides this, industry is developing and agriculture.
  31. SCRATCH
    SCRATCH 26 December 2017 00: 44 New
    0
    Big politics, does not allow to etch dill cockroaches.
  32. Dobriy_chelvek
    Dobriy_chelvek 26 December 2017 11: 21 New
    0
    I read comments and think - people, what are you? learn about the Donbass from the FB and Russia 24? Look at the militia, it’s not like that in 2015. I understand that before there were many Russians in the militia, but here the salary went and the Donetsk people with Luhansk for the treasured 15 tons and joyful non-Ukrainians began to gradually oust the Russians from the brigades, but what? The Russians do not take out the coal, do not pull the colormet, they don’t rummage with their sacks, booze, anasha, weapons. The question arises: if in September, the failure of AK Novorossia to contain the APU, the "treasured 3-4 days", the godlike northerly wind, has been circulating in VO since September, what result should be expected? Russia has created African entities in the center of Europe, without an acceptable standard of living, power, recognition even in the Russian Federation at least at the level of car numbers, patent documents do not count for zarobitchan, then what victory and parity can we talk about? The Armed Forces should increase the number of permanent drupes of strike groups to 120 thousand people and conduct cutting strikes, grapples, constant sabotage in the rear of the LPR, destroy critical infrastructure, make the same kamikaze flights of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, although it is a fool to understand that air defense from Torez will start to bring them down. Maybe then the APU will start to get something. And there everything further depends on the GDP - whether to introduce green men from Donetsk, Rost. reg or not? Or maybe another exercise with thousands of ten vacationers? Or riot police, to gather, suicide bombers and ask in Donetsk? We will wait for answers to these questions from the authorities of the Russian Federation. Well, I will advise forum users how they like to speak in Lurk - we stock up on popcorn and wait.
    1. Alexander Borisov
      Alexander Borisov 30 December 2017 20: 18 New
      +1
      Hear the bandera, you rams warned Putin that he would not allow the destruction of LDNR, that does not reach? Just fight, you’ll deal not only with the militias, but also with the regular army of the Russian Federation, and this time it will fight on a full legal basis, as the guarantor of the Minsk agreements.
    2. vladimirvn
      vladimirvn 30 December 2017 20: 57 New
      0
      Blowing North Wind
      It smells of icy cold, the breath of death.
      Two brothers come together in a deadly battle
      And hitting each other, they will fall dead.
      The enemy will make fun, he’ll be happy.
  33. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 27 December 2017 08: 06 New
    +1
    The situation is very serious, Bandera are preparing to seriously work out handouts from across the ocean, and now they need a quick, small victorious war to keep the junta in power. superiority in tanks and artillery of a large role, if militias have
    Adjustable ammunition will not play, the loss of the attacking side in the presence of good intelligence will be incomparably higher. And the transfer of intelligence needs help !!!
  34. Altona
    Altona 27 December 2017 16: 41 New
    0
    Quote: rotmistr60
    It seems to me that in DLNR they are not suicides, therefore this issue is either being resolved or resolved.

    --------------------------------
    It seems to me that conflicts around the perimeter of Russia are interconnected vessels. Squeezing out the proxy-American presence from Syria in the form of ISIS * (banned in the Russian Federation), we should have foreseen that we would be satisfied with full-fledged Syria already in the Donbass. Moreover, there are already facts about the significant movement of the “Mujahideen" (in fact, mercenaries working under the flag of others) to the positions of Dobrobats. There are already hanging bouquets of banners and ISIS * and Al-Nusra and whoever you want. Therefore, a confusion there should be expected and at least it will be necessary to move beyond the borders of the regions of Lugansk and Donetsk. And the LNR People’s Army and People’s Militia are no longer moving.
    1. Alexander Borisov
      Alexander Borisov 30 December 2017 20: 10 New
      0
      One must think that in the event of aggression of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Russia as a guarantor will intervene in the situation. But they will attack before the World Cup to deprive Russia of the right to host it.
      1. Dmitry Fedorov
        Dmitry Fedorov 31 December 2017 20: 07 New
        +1
        It's a shame. Then we definitely won’t become world football champions. However, in 2008 they also hoped for the Olympics. And in 2014.
  35. master2
    master2 29 December 2017 01: 16 New
    0
    I read the article, read the reviews, the conclusion - Russia is becoming more and more like North Korea, the difference is only in management and in the size of the territory, and everything else is the same - total propaganda is around enemies, we are the strongest, we will defeat everyone. But in the end, the whole world turned its backside, kicked out of the Big Eight, cut off the north stream, threw it out of the Olympics, imposed sanctions on PASS, imposed foreign capital from the country (the Iskanders no longer laugh), and then what? Who are you going to fight with? With technologies that currently exist in Russia, they are more afraid of her like a monkey with a grenade.
    Think for yourself:
    - Where are the daughters of Putin? In Holland and South Korea.
    - Deputy Pekhtin. With a son in the USA.
    - Minister of Transport of the Moscow Region - Katsyva. With a son in the USA.
    - Children of the deputy Zheleznyak - live in Switzerland.
    - Children of Astakhov. One in France, the other in England.
    - Children and grandchildren of the “chief patriot of Russia”, the head of Russian Railways, Vladimir Yakunin, live outside the country - in England and Switzerland.
    - The daughter of Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, Ekaterina, lives and studies in the United States.
    - The son - Deputy Speaker of the State Duma A. Zhukov lived and studied in London for a long time.
    - The daughter of the vice speaker of the State Duma, Sergei Andenko, studies and lives in Germany.
    - The eldest son of Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Kozak - Alexei lives abroad and is engaged in the construction business.
    - The younger brother of Alexei Kozak, Alexander, works at Credit Suisse
    - The eldest son of Deputy Remezkov, Stepan, recently graduated from Valley Forge Militar College in Pennsylvania (a year of study costs 1 million 295 761 rubles).
    His youngest daughter lives in Vienna, where she does gymnastics. Masha Remezkova represented the Austrian national team (!!!) at the children's competitions in Ljubljana.
    - The daughter of deputy V. Fetisov, Anastasia, grew up and studied in the United States. Nastya never learned to write and read in Russian.
    - The daughter of Svetlana Nesterova, a State Duma deputy from the United Russia fraction, lives in England.
    - My son Nikolay studied at Oxford, the main fighter for "traditional Orthodox values", E. Mizulina, received a diploma and moved to live on a permanent basis in tolerant Belgium, where same-sex marriages are allowed.
    - The daughter of deputy Vorontsov, Anna lives in Italy. There she moved from Germany.
    - At United Russia Elena Rakhova, who became famous for the fact that she called Leningraders who lived less than 120 days in the blockade “unblockers,” her daughter lives in the United States.
    - The daughter of the ex-speaker of the State Duma, one of the founders of the United Russia party, and now a member of the Security Council, Boris Gryzlov, Eugene lives in Tallinn. And even recently received Estonian citizenship.
    - The son of the former Minister of Education Andrei Fursenko lives on a permanent basis in the United States.
    - The son of V. Nikonov (Molotov’s grandson), the president of the Politics foundation, is a US citizen.

    And this list is incomplete and without taking into account real estate in one way or another belonging to our political masterminds. Yes, and you should not discount the accounts in whose securities most of the Russian assets are placed. So we disagree, whether we are again ****! There will be no war, at least from the western side.
    1. Alexander Borisov
      Alexander Borisov 30 December 2017 20: 04 New
      0
      Listen, you first learn to lie, and then you will try to hang noodles on your ears.
    2. Dmitry Fedorov
      Dmitry Fedorov 31 December 2017 20: 04 New
      0
      Nobody reads long trolling.
      Money to the wind.
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 3 January 2018 18: 36 New
        0
        Taki beginner ...
        Salaga
  36. andrew xnumx
    andrew xnumx 29 December 2017 20: 20 New
    0
    It is urgent to prepare the republic for protection from the APU strike, which will follow very soon.
  37. Alexander Borisov
    Alexander Borisov 30 December 2017 19: 59 New
    0
    It is necessary to supply LDN with electronic warfare and suppress the satellite navigation system in order to deprive the APU of accuracy.
    1. Alexander Mage
      Alexander Mage 31 December 2017 09: 03 New
      0
      You just have to stop Putin "agreeing" !!!
  38. Alexander Mage
    Alexander Mage 31 December 2017 08: 40 New
    0
    The Minsk agreements are a screen for Poroshenko and his masters, because of which they will continue to build up pressure until they break somewhere. I don’t understand why Putin is cowardly and, as it were, fulfills these agreements? Because people die because of this! Only because of this ! Anyway, sooner or later they will force (to this and strive) to become bad !!! So, in order to avoid further unnecessary victims, you need to become bad right away! Now !!!
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 31 December 2017 11: 20 New
      0
      Quote: Alexander Mag
      Putin is cowardly and as if fulfilling these agreements?

      You should at least read these Agreements ...
  39. Alexander Mage
    Alexander Mage 31 December 2017 08: 43 New
    0
    Or bargained between a brat and it’s all profitable for them. GOVERNERS ...
  40. Alexander Mage
    Alexander Mage 31 December 2017 08: 48 New
    0
    And why did they delete my smart and perspicacious comment? Mats and national isolation were definitely not there! Are admins offended for our president? A penny to you this time ...
  41. Dmitry Fedorov
    Dmitry Fedorov 31 December 2017 20: 02 New
    0
    In order to conceal what is happening from the eyes of the Ukrainian population, the so-called Mihomaydan, which performs a distracting function, continues to play a rather important role.

    Where is the Donbass - and where is Mihomaydan? Not everyone should be considered fools. The Ukrainian population does not give a damn about what is happening in the Donbass, they have their own problems. And the offensive team for Kiev should come from the USA. But she will not do it. Since in this case, the Ukraine asset for Trump will be quickly and irretrievably spent. Nobody will give a cent for him then. Therefore: there will be a shot, sniper rifles - there will be, even a little Javelin.
    But starting a war in the center of Europe for Trump is now completely unprofitable. A war that he cannot win.
  42. Uxus
    Uxus 4 January 2018 10: 20 New
    0
    You decide. Or 404 without an army or ...)))
  43. Uxus
    Uxus 4 January 2018 10: 23 New
    0
    Quote: master2

    - My son Nikolay studied at Oxford, the main fighter for "traditional Orthodox values", E. Mizulina, received a diploma and moved to live on a permanent basis in tolerant Belgium, where same-sex marriages are allowed.

    I did not understand, but if I went to live in Belgium, then a homosexual machine gun ???
  44. Uxus
    Uxus 4 January 2018 10: 26 New
    0
    Quote: horhe48
    You don’t throw anyone hats now. But you need to prepare seriously. And without any buildup. The author is 100% right. They like the Ukrainians or not, but the US hawks will still force them to attack Donbass before the election of the Russian President. Most likely in January - February. More precisely, let intelligence determine it. The EU-sheep, hiding behind all sorts of "Minsk" there, gave time to the waltzman and comp. to prepare the "Croatian script." And the states are in a hurry. Everything is carried out in concert and in unison. Such is the political background. The military component, however, is to inflict unacceptable losses on the Armed Forces of Ukraine, especially in armored vehicles and artillery, and when they are settled in battle, carry out an “peace enforcement operation.” But it’s not so with the Georgians. I still don’t understand for what purpose Medvedev stopped the troops at 40 km. from Tbilisi, when all combat-ready Georgian units were defeated? What did the Georgian "elite" fall in love with Russia after that? No, as they asked for NATO, they do as well. They need to finish off the enemy in his den. And then transfer power to sane politicians.

    No one will force. And nobody needs it. Do you want to bet? Before the election, bullshit remained completely. Although, if you listen to basurin, then we attack every month steadily ...
  45. Uxus
    Uxus 4 January 2018 10: 28 New
    0
    Quote: dsk
    Quote: boboss
    on ... partners
    "The Ukrainian authorities have already signed an agreement with the United States on the deployment of a military base in Ochakovo. And there you can place both tanks and aircraft. Unprecedented, but true: for the first time in Soviet and post-Soviet times, the United States is increasing its military influence at the borders of Russia, 400 kilometers from the strategic facilities of our country. Such actions will be much more serious than the supply of weapons to the Ukrainian army. "(Channel "Tsargrad" 19: 49., 25.12.17/XNUMX/XNUMX)

    Tanks in Ochakovo? What for ??? !! Did you get stoned with your Constantinople ???