New Year's truce in the Donbass. Trump approves the sale of ATGM to Kiev

From today on Donbass so-called Christmas or New Year's truce came into force. The relevant agreements, like all previous ones, were reached by the Contact "Minsk" group. None of the previous regimes of silence, as is known, was not observed, although the number of attacks often decreased.

From the statement of Martin Saidik, representing the OSCE in the aforementioned Donbass Contact Group:

The contact group stresses the importance of ensuring peace in connection with the Christmas and New Year holidays. Guided by earlier agreements and commitments, the parties reaffirm their commitment to respecting a sustainable, comprehensive and indefinite ceasefire with December 00.00 23.

The decision to start the next stage of the truce was commented on by the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense. In particular, the head of the ministry, Stepan Poltorak, said that he hoped that the terms of the truce would be fulfilled, since "the local population should feel the New Year."

Against this background, statements are coming from the United States that Trump expressed his intention to sell Ukraine anti-tank missile systems in the amount of 47 million dollars. This was reported by the TV channel "ABC". The submission says that Trump will send the relevant initiative to Congress, which will consider it within 30 day. At the same time, in the American media themselves, they were puzzled by the reason for which the lethal supply weapons of this type of Washington to approve now, when the representatives of the contact group agreed to start a truce, and when Russia withdrew its officers (JCCC) from the territory of Donbass.

From ABC:

Such a move by Trump is likely to provoke a response from Russia and threaten the normalization of relations with Moscow declared by the president himself (the United States).

Comments

[Spartanez300]

The New Year’s truce in the Donbass is only on paper, everyone understands that it won’t be there, all the more they will gobble up for the new year and begin to peck in all directions. Trump is about to become the bloodiest president in US history, and possibly the last.

[210ox]

Yes, this is understandable. But what about our leadership? Will it continue to think or finally say its weighty word? At least before the elections. It is clear that there will be no peace with these "truces".

Quote: Spartanez300

The New Year’s truce in the Donbass is only on paper, everyone understands that it won’t be there, all the more they will gobble up for the new year and begin to peck in all directions. Trump is about to become the bloodiest president in US history, and possibly the last.

[katana]

Nothing comes of truces, for the Ukrainian side does not consider itself a loser.

[Shura Sailors]

And what about leadership? What weighty word should it say? What will supply the modern weapons of LDNR? Or that it recognizes the independence of the republics and declares war on Ukraine in response to shelling of the Donbass? If it considers it necessary, then there will be supplies and support. But all this will be done quietly, without raising a wave, until the "world community" is ready to accept Donbass as an independent entity, state

[dSK]

The new US national security strategy openly names two enemies of the United States, which are ranked: first China, then Russia. The Brzezinski-Abama democrats preferred the "left", the cunning options and for Russia they were more destructive if the "ji-2" - the union "States - China" were realized. Republicans are acting "more honestly" - more impudent and direct. It’s like a person’s two hands - left and right. Left pat the partner on the head, offering "friendship", then the right beat under the breath. So the godless USSR was destroyed. But now such a "number" will not work. Jesus Christ: "I am with you and no one at you."

[alexmach]

China first, then Russia.

Damn, is it really going to switch to China?

[seos]

they don’t switch to China because the economies have grown together, rather they will kick us revealingly, showing China what will happen to it in case of disobedience ...

[alexmach]

Come on, I’m also the bloodiest. During the Korean and Vietnam wars, the account of the dead went to millions. In the same North Korea, 10% of the population mowed down.

[seos]

Vietnam did not have thousands of nuclear weapons .... our doctrine does not preclude a preventive nuclear strike ...

[Mar.Tirah]

I don’t know who the Ukrainians will shoot from the JAWELINs, but certainly not the tanks, but it’s a pity at home. In Syria, did they help the barracks from the Free Syrian Army? that Russia's response will be tough and unexpected.

[Said]

It is all the more clear that this type of armament is a bookmark for the future clashes of precisely the regular units. The preparation of the war is underway and the rogues have an unenviable role.

[ImPerts]

Will it be Javelins or Tou?
Again, allies for Americans are those who can pay for allied functions from the United States. Trump was a businessman, so he remained.

[katana]

Well, Ukrainians will definitely find $ 47 million - this is probably not a problem. But I think that the Israeli Spike is much better than the American Javelin, it’s just that the Ukrainians don’t have anything shining with sevres - they won’t sell such weapons, fearing a Russian reaction.

[alexmach]

Will it be Javelins or Tou?

Maybe their clones are RPG-7. in my opinion, little Estonia has not yet bought a Javelin war with twice as much as anyone.

[Shura Sailors]

Americans and allies are relative and temporary. Ally - as long as you can use, and then just used ... cotraceptive

[seos]

Declared "javelins" and about 250 charges to them ...

[Strashila]

The Americans are preparing for the consequences of another dirty trick ... they are waiting for large losses of human and weapons ... the initial stage was ... assisting with food rations ... then there was a special appeal from those who settled in the USA, not counting the fact that Canada, where the big diaspora took care of this issue, ukrov ... now the supply of weapons, so to speak, the legalization of early deliveries in violation of international laws ... in a couple of minutes on a comic book I will not get to know him, we need practice ... they think that ukrov learned for the crowd.

[Mihail177]

Trump makes another disgusting Russia after another praise from GDP. Maybe enough to praise him?

[just exp]

and what will the javelins change at the front?
there it’s more that it’s an infrared anti-tank system, you don’t mess with them on stationary positions. but the fact that a certain amount will be sold to their militias is not to go to the grandmother. and do you think our UVZ engineers would be better off getting acquainted with the javelins?

[dvina71]

Do you think our specialists do not know what the ICG seeker is? Seriously? Javelin is a product of the Cold War, when Western theorists from the war believed that the SA would attack with massive tank waves. Hence the NATO weapons fleet .. tanks with thick frontal armor and the declared high-precision cannon. Javelin from the same song .. they can only be effective in repelling a massive tank offensive. In modern combat, the javelin operators for the tank are the target .. even for the point, and I'm not talking about 14,5mm ..

[just exp]

so if our specialists know what the ICG seeker is, then why did they conduct such a hunt for stingers?
or maybe you will try to understand that IR IR is different, and in order to interfere with some IR, you need to know its nuances, and not only know. but it is also advisable to check in practice.
It’s not without reason that our tanks bought mattresses not in theory, but in practice to make sure that their PTS are working as planned. and our stingers captured that would know what their GOS is really capable of and how to wash her eyes.

[Shura Sailors]

That's it to know the characteristics, frequencies and other nuances of the "hunt" and led

[seos]

All THC and the principle of operation are described and are in the public domain .... in winter, the effectiveness of javelins is higher ....
Alongside the IR in the GOS there is a photograph of the attacked object (possibly an IR photograph) to minimize the failure of the attack ..

[just exp]

so why did they hunt for the stingers. since the data is all in the public domain?
(And yes, I am aware that in those days the web was not there, but tcp came up with emnip back in the 60s).

[katana]

Quote: just EXPL

and what will the javelins change at the front?
there it’s more that it’s an infrared anti-tank system, you don’t mess with them on stationary positions. but the fact that a certain amount will be sold to their militias is not to go to the grandmother. and do you think our UVZ engineers would be better off getting acquainted with the javelins?

The Javelins are unlikely to be sold to militia - they will be imposed severe control, and the fact that these ATGM systems are very effective against armored vehicles was shown last year’s April war in Karabakh - dozens of Armenian tanks were burned by Israeli Spikes (an analogue of Javellina). Moreover, Armenian tanks were burned in equipped closed positions from where they fired.

[just exp]

in Karabakh, Azerbaijan did not use adhesions, but adhesions of nos. and there’s telecontrol, not IR GOS.

[katana]

Quote: just EXPL

in Karabakh, Azerbaijan did not use adhesions, but adhesions of nos. and there’s telecontrol, not IR GOS.

In Karabakh, the Azerbaijani army used Spikes of various modifications - the example of Spike nos you have given differs from the usual standard Spike in increased range.

[avt]

Quote: katana

The Javelins are unlikely to be sold to militias - they will be imposed the most severe control,

Wai Mae! I myself realized that I wrote!? Where is the ruin and where

Quote: katana

fierce control

?? Tell this to the Un guys who, for the non-proliferation of rocket technology, have gotten quite old, even single-chamber, but RD from Yuzhmash from Ruins and now quietly have a medium-range medium. And then they’ll work on their own. Stinger "in the mountains in Afghanistan, will not have to - they themselves will bring for the grandmother.

[katana]

Quote: avt

Quote: katana

The Javelins are unlikely to be sold to militias - they will be imposed the most severe control,

Wai Mae! I myself realized that I wrote!? Where is the ruin and where

Quote: katana

fierce control

?? Tell this to the Un guys who, for the non-proliferation of rocket technology, have gotten quite old, even single-chamber, but RD from Yuzhmash from Ruins and now quietly have a medium-range medium. And then they’ll work on their own. Stinger "in the mountains in Afghanistan, will not have to - they themselves will bring for the grandmother.

God grant that I was mistaken and Ukrainians sold American Javellins to Russians. But all the Russian people are not strangers to me.

[Scoun]

Quote: katana

dozens of Armenian tanks were burned by Israeli Spikes

So myths and legends are born))) dozens of these are 90 or 70 tons?

In total, 6 tanks were destroyed.
UAV "Nagor" - 3 tanks and "Spike" - 3 tanks .... about dozens of indiscriminately not worth talking about.

[katana]

Quote: Scoun

Quote: katana

dozens of Armenian tanks were burned by Israeli Spikes

So myths and legends are born))) dozens of these are 90 or 70 tons?

In total, 6 tanks were destroyed.
UAV "Nagor" - 3 tanks and "Spike" - 3 tanks .... about dozens of indiscriminately not worth talking about.

Our Armenian Defense Ministry acknowledged the loss of 28 tanks, of which 14 are not recoverable. And all these losses in 3-4 days of fighting. I do not exaggerate at all.

[Scoun]

Quote: katana

Our Armenian Defense Ministry acknowledged the destruction of 28 tanks, of which 14 are not recoverable

Wow.
Thank you I’ll specifically “study” in more detail, 28 in a few days, this is very strong for such a conflict.
I missed a lot in life at that time.

[Vadim237]

They also used kamikaze drones.

[Vard]

Flies separately ... Cutlets separately ... Gratitude was like for the CIA .. But for ATGM gratitude would be with the entry ... In the face of the face ...

[rotmistr60]

The truce will be as “peaceful" as the previous ones.

to sell $ 47 million anti-tank missile systems to Ukraine

What kind of stabilization of the situation in the Donbass can be said if the main sponsor of lawlessness does not want this.

[Mountain shooter]

Why are they so worn with these "Javelin" s as with a written bag? Rays of death sell? In real combat conditions

[Herculesic]

Well, what does it mean, volunteers will go to the aid of the republics en masse, with "good gifts"!

[Dave36]

This is an answer to our concern ...

[Masya masya]

the impression is that Trump is not the president, but a child with matches ... runs around and thinks where else to set fire ...

[Okolotochny]

Ordinary speculator, huckster, a Western businessman. He plays at raising bets. Now he does not bargain with GDP. And then he throws up his arms and thinks that bargaining is now more profitable.

[Chichikov]

In particular, the head of the department, Stepan Poltorak, said he hoped that the conditions of the ceasefire would be fulfilled, as "the local population should feel the New Year."

Yes, every day, we not only hear his hopes, but we also feel tonight is no exception.
If he were little, he would have asked Santa Claus to do with all this national fascist pack of Ukraine what their ideological idols had done with General Karbyshev.
And so, one desire is enough to scare the DLNR military personnel with orders of responsibility for violation of the ceasefire. Show at least one such order of the Ukrainian junta!
You are, gentlemen, leaders, not blind or deaf. Almost daily shelling, killed and military personnel and civilians of Donbass. How long? There are not so many of us to live by the principle - for one broken, they give two not beaten!

[CAPTIVE]

A nice gift for NG! Part of it will be sold to militias, another part is used as a salute .. Gulya field however!

[dFG]

In this case, it is necessary to act as Jews - the cbr and the FSB determine the storage location right up to the delivery columns and cover everything with calibers, do not wait for losses, since the javelin thing is effective. And no excuses

[Moskovit]

The militiamen began excavating the heaps, and if the holy javelins appear among the Ukrainians, they will not find anything. For the land of Donbass contains many surprises. Ukrainian warrant officers rub their hands, because it often happens that during transportation, on bumps, different boxes fall out of the body. And these boxes are completely lost in the steppes of Ukraine, and then someone buys apartments in the center of Kiev ...

[Firework]

the flame of local conflict begins to die out, gentlemen from the USA warm their greedy hands on this flame

[Romanych.by]

Quote: 210ox

Yes, this is understandable. But what about our leadership? Will it continue to think or finally say its weighty word? At least before the elections. It is clear that there will be no peace with these "truces".

Quote: Spartanez300

The New Year’s truce in the Donbass is only on paper, everyone understands that it won’t be there, all the more they will gobble up for the new year and begin to peck in all directions. Trump is about to become the bloodiest president in US history, and possibly the last.

I support your thought. How long will the Russians be killed in the Donbass ?? If you look at everything that happens on the other hand, it faintly seems that Americans living outside the United States themselves would have died somewhere, but America was silent.

[Normal ok]

Quote: Romanych.by

I support your thought. How long will they kill Russians in the Donbass ??

According to the census (the latter was in 2001) in the Donbass, the majority of the population are Ukrainians. So, do not bring nonsense, that only Russians are killed there.

[Strashila]

There is a direct relationship between Poroshenko and Hitler ... he also thinks that the question can be solved only with super weapons ... practice shows that everything is far from the case ... Americans of his type are available and even used, and in the full remainder bummer ... that in Iraq ... that in Afghanistan, only the price tag takes off ... there their adversary basically solves the same tasks with the help of the old and time-tested RPG-7 ... people control weapons, they are the basis of everything .

[keeper03]

The most appropriate answer would be a blow to American instructors!

[Olgovich]

Trump has expressed his intention to sell $ 47 million anti-tank missile systems to Ukraine

Well, GADINA!
"Fighters for peace" in the world, destroying this world everywhere.

[Methane]

How is the Russian Foreign Ministry? Has it already expressed concern, or is it not?

[Prutkov]

The US so wanted to stay above the fray. And now officially supplying Ukraine, the Americans are becoming parties to the conflict.

[Lena Petrova]

Quote: ImPerts

Will it be Javelins or Tou?

Clearly, TOW. I think that there are no talks about any Jewels. Till.

[Lexus]

Let them give the trash bags to the maximum dimension in large quantities. So that later they could pack ukrovoyak and not get their hands dirty ... And if they surrender, they’ll dismantle rubble with them and sweep the streets.
+ white shawls and diapers.

[Nemesis]

I have no doubt that this agreement with Bandera will end as well as all the others - a complete failure ... Those who conduct all these negotiations with Bandera and conclude these ridiculous and harmful agreements for Russia and the Russian people, at least, do not correspond to the position held ...

[Slam]

Quote: Romanych.by

Quote: 210ox

Yes, this is understandable. But what about our leadership? Will it continue to think or finally say its weighty word? At least before the elections. It is clear that there will be no peace with these "truces".

Quote: Spartanez300

The New Year’s truce in the Donbass is only on paper, everyone understands that it won’t be there, all the more they will gobble up for the new year and begin to peck in all directions. Trump is about to become the bloodiest president in US history, and possibly the last.

I support your thought. How long will the Russians be killed in the Donbass ?? If you look at everything that happens on the other hand, it faintly seems that Americans living outside the United States themselves would have died somewhere, but America was silent.

Superchromosomal, but from America.

[TOR2]

Quote: seos

Alongside the IR in the GOS there is a photograph of the attacked object (possibly an IR photograph) to minimize the failure of the attack ..

There are technical specifications, but there are also commercial campaigns. How many copies were broken in discussions about photography. Comrades tankers, smiled, and do not move, right now we will do a photo. In order for this to work, the tank needs to be painted pink. Then, against the background of the green field, the TV channel will see it. IR photography - what will be included in it? The temperature of the emitting object. Yes, you can read and write missiles in memory. But the driver of such an infection, he took and drowned a sneaker on the floor against the background of burning grass. And where will we fly?
And if a modernized version of an old acquaintance of a celestial relative "Javelin" is installed on the tank.

What is interesting IR photo out there. Is that 9x12.

[alexmach]

Do you yourself, looking at the tank in the field, distinguish it? Why do you think that the guidance system will not be able to?

And as for the Infrared Interference - the homing heads are improving, increasing the resolution, and again struggling with jamming.

[TOR2]

The human eye perceives a certain depth of the color spectrum. The missile matrix can be matched with similar characteristics. But in terms of detection, the human brain is still out of competition. If, for example, a shell exploded near a tank and the tank was covered with clods of earth, you understand this, but there is no rocket. And there are a lot of such nuances, so the% of errors will be extremely high.

Quote: alexmach

And as for the infrared interference - the homing heads are being improved

Any homing system needs input. If you grease them even with a simple thing, then mistakes are guaranteed.

[alexmach]

But in terms of detection, the human brain is still out of competition.

And there are a lot of such nuances, so the% of errors will be extremely high.

Do you know something about modern image processing techniques? Why then are you reasoning?
Accompaniment of the object indicated by the operator is a small piece of what the human eye can do, and it is a completely solvable technical problem.
For example, doesn’t you cause such skepticism about the automatic tracking of targets that has been on the BMP-30 for 3 years, for example? Or is he, too, according to your "stained" goals, unable to accompany?

Any homing system needs input. If you grease them even with a simple thing, then mistakes are guaranteed.

And if the homing system was able to "filter out" the lubricating effect?

[TOR2]

Quote: alexmach

Do you know something about modern image processing techniques? Why then are you reasoning?

And where did you get such data? I have not been to Pblt since Soviet times.

Quote: alexmach

For example, doesn’t you cause such skepticism about the automatic tracking of targets that has been on the BMP-30 for 3 years, for example?

I am skeptical that you have dragged this device here. To get started, look at the dimensions and quantity of equipment. And then try stuffing it all into the rocket. In addition, for 30 years, has anyone set the task of disrupting the capture of tracking systems? Do you think this is unrealistic?

Quote: alexmach

And if the homing system was able to "filter out" the lubricating effect?

Well, let's take a look at a simplified version of the target capture by the IR channel. You cool the GOS and direct the ATGM towards the target. On the motion matrix, radiation from the target and 2 phantoms. This is all on the machine in the commercial, but in reality the ATGM will ask you what the goal is. And you need to choose quickly, otherwise the GOS will be cooled anew or the target will fall. At the time of selection, the phantom overlapped the target - all the kin will not be.
As for the TV channel, here we cut the very tops. You have a great matrix with awesome colors. You took a picture with a good resolution. A rocket makes a slide and the fun begins. The angle of inclination of the rays of light on the target is different and on the matrix, too. With the template, this no longer fits. Will you adjust? The goal will also be able to participate in the adjustment. As a result, the flight of the prodigy will end in an interesting place.

[alexmach]

And where did you get such data?

To a certain extent, my specialty is not rockets, and not images by itself. Such a problem does not seem fundamentally insoluble to me.

To get started, look at the dimensions and quantity of equipment

There has been a certain miniaturization of the electronics. Optics IR head in a javelin is also quite dimensional.

In addition, for 30 years, has anyone set the task of disrupting the capture of tracking systems? Do you think this is unrealistic?

What does it mean is not real. Hide the target in a cloud of smoke completely and it is advisable to move a couple of meters and the television channel already does not help. Has anyone set a goal? I suppose I set it, only in order to complete this task, you probably need to understand exactly how it is being induced, and it is also desirable to have enough rocket instances yourself to conduct experiments.

At the time of selection, the phantom overlapped the target - all the kin will not be.

Well, I’m not saying that it’s not possible to shoot down a capture at all. But you try to imagine how it would be possible to realize such that the phantom would overlap the target exactly at the moment of choosing the target, but at the moment of hit it would be diverted from the target. And this is provided that the phantom with the eyes of the rockets is identical to the target, but what if the rocket can independently distinguish the phantom from the target?

The angle of inclination of the rays of light on the target is different and on the matrix, too. With the template, this no longer fits. Will you adjust?

To me this task does not seem technically unsolvable.

And about correcting - by the way, yes, this same javelin allows the operator to adjust the pens in flight with handles. Here is such a shot and forgot.

[TOR2]

Quote: alexmach

Hide the target in a cloud of smoke completely and it is advisable to move a couple of meters and the television channel already does not help.

This is a little it should not be just smoke. And also particles that react with air and produce heat. And even this is not desirable to add metallized dust.

Quote: alexmach

But you try to imagine how it would be possible to realize such that the phantom would overlap the target exactly at the moment of choosing the target, but at the moment of hit it would be diverted from the target. And this is provided that the phantom with the eyes of the rockets is identical to the target, but what if the rocket can independently distinguish the phantom from the target?

Optional at the time of selection, it can overlap in flight and then there will be 2 goals. Or for a split second, “fill in” the matrix.

Quote: alexmach

And about correcting - by the way, yes, this same javelin allows the operator to adjust the pens in flight with handles.

No, it's just a Spike can. It is no coincidence that so many control channels are provided.

[alexmach]

This is a little it should not be just smoke. And also particles that react with air and produce heat. And even this is not desirable to add metallized dust.

Well, I wrote about the interference to the television channel.

Optional at the time of selection, it can overlap in flight and then there will be 2 goals. Or for a split second, “fill in” the matrix.

So I don’t really imagine how to create a mock-up of equipment in the IR range and how and what to design it and how to move it. According to my concepts, this should be a laser heating a certain surface nearby. But I admit, of course, that I do not know and do not understand something.

Another question about guidance on a television channel - are you sure that making a rocket a rocket in general releases a target from view?

In general, if I summarize my thought - do not indiscriminately declare the enemy equipment ineffective. I don’t see any technical obstacles to the fact that it functions as the advertising materials describe, besides the same javelins, in general, the war passed through.

Of course, this is not a child prodigy fighting for a soldier, of course, with developed systems of counteraction, you can fight it.

And by the way, I don’t quite understand why Ukrainians clung to these Javelins like that? This is some kind of fetish or marketing ploy. They would have had both TOU or Kornet clones by their eyes. They would have fed their troops with a second-generation ATGM would have given them a qualitative advantage.

[Vadim237]

The fourth generation ATGMs are already being created where the GOS will be combined - two-channel infrared, plus television.

[alexmach]

And each next generation is more and more expensive. I directly recall the era of the Dreadnoughts.