Military Review

100 years of the Cheka - "the punishing sword of the revolution"

352
100 years of the Cheka - "the punishing sword of the revolution"



December 20 A famous structure was created under the Council of People’s Commissars of the RSFSR, the All-Russian Emergency Commission to Combat Counter-Revolution, Sabotage and Crimes under the post headed by Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky.

Historian and writer Ilya Ratkovsky in an interview on Nakanune.RU told how the Cheka became the shield and sword of Soviet power, shared information about the mythologization of the "Red Terror" and recalled how the year of the centenary of revolution had passed.

Question: Ilya Sergeevich, December is a landmark this year - a century since the creation of the Cheka, and you recently published the work "The Sword of Revolution", tell us about the book?

Ilya Ratkovsky: The book "The Chronicle of the Red Terrorism of the Cheka. The Punishing Sword of the Revolution" is an edited and improved version of my ten-year-old work "The Red Terror and the Cheka's activities in 1918 year." It includes both new materials and edited material from the previous edition. There I consider the reasons for the creation of the Cheka, its activities in 1917-1919, the main operations of the KGB. Naturally, punitive practice is also considered. This body fought both counter-revolution and banditry and crimes of office. There is also a real statistics of repression, which does not correspond to the works of Sergei Pavlovich Melgunov. This book is part of a peculiar trilogy, which was published by me this year. I published a book about white terror (its third updated edition is now being published), a book about Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky, and this work reveals my vision of the activities of the Cheka in the initial years of its existence.



Question: How did 2017 go by in general, don't you think that at the official level the century of revolution passed unnoticed?

Ilya Ratkovsky: The public had an interest in the revolutionary 1917, another thing is that at the official level, this response was not matched by the response of the authorities. In my opinion, they clearly feared to discuss these events, replacing it with other topics, including various television projects: from Matilda to Trotsky with Parvus. Meanwhile, it was necessary to discuss both the causes of the revolution, and its course and consequences, both for Russia and for the world.

This world event was marked by the authorities as purely Russian, meanwhile its significance is much greater. In China, for example, the discussion at the official level was much larger. For them, this is an event of global significance. And not only for the PRC. A lot of books have been published in the West. And this is not a momentary interest, but a statement of the significance of those historical events. The assessments are different, but there is recognition of the significance and its influence on world history.

At the same time, the contribution of Russian historians and archivists, employees of the largest libraries was serious. Many projects have been implemented, many special electronic resources have appeared. Of course, there were attempts to place their accents, but on the whole a certain reserve was made for the future not a commemorative discussion.



Question: What conclusions do you draw from this situation?

Ilya Ratkovsky: There was no reconciliation proclaimed by the authorities. Actually, they did little for this. Everything is crumpled. I remember in 2017 a whole series of open monuments. They opened the monuments to Stolypin, about the same openly and restored monuments to Dzerzhinsky. The initiative came from different circles, the state (local and central authorities) did not interfere, sometimes it helped. It is obvious that there is something common for the authorities in these figures. Strong power, restoring order, carrying out reforms. By the way, both of these figures studied in the same institution - the First Vilna Gymnasium. Two options for "order and reform." A monument to Alexander III in the Crimea and a number of other monuments, such as the Alley of Russian rulers in Moscow, are characteristic in this respect. Reconciliation of such construction of monuments and ended. Given that all these monuments were not a landmark event for the whole of Russian society. There was no explanation for this sculptural construction either. I remember the year and the "movies" on the topic of 1917. These projects were prepared for a long time, but historically they did not stand up to scrutiny.



Question: In general, the Great October Socialist Revolution and the activity of the Cheka is now unjustly rejected in the minds of people for such a "marginal line"?

Ilya Ratkovsky: The thesis about the marginality of the October Revolution is advanced by the marginals from science. Will explain. First, there is a separate category of critics of October, who do not consider themselves to be part of Russian society. They argue about their Europeanness, about other people, etc., that is, they put themselves beyond the framework of both Russian history and Russian society as a whole, arguing about their elitism. But this is not elitism, but marginality, isolation from its roots. Putting yourself out of the box is a typical definition of marginal. There are also marginals from science. Here the other often happens. People deliberately distance themselves from famous historical sources and materials, not recognizing them and not entering into a scientific discussion of them. This is, of course, not all historians who do not accept October, but a certain part. There is just such a popular terminology.

The question of the global significance of October sounded a little at the official level this year. Meanwhile, there were achievements not only within Soviet society, but also beyond its borders, which were caused by its influence. The socialization of Western society in the twentieth century is a consequence of the influence of the USSR. This factor determined the need for the development of the West in the direction of the social security system. The same factor of the USSR determined the collapse of the colonial system. October destroyed the estate system. All this, and much more, is the meaning of those centenary events.

Question: Often one can hear from officials that all achievements are crossed out by that “red terror”. All those "horrors and executions without trial", and so on - what is true here and what is a myth?

Ilya Ratkovsky: The Red Terror, like the White Terror, is part of the history of the civil war. Actually, no civil war did not pass without violence. Violence took place as a manifestation of the dictatorship of the proletariat or the white dictatorships. There was a lot of abuse. To deny them is meaningless and even stupid.

However, it must be understood that neither revolution is being done in white gloves, nor counter-revolution. It is even more important to understand that this violence had social roots. Russian society was not one before the revolution. The confrontation between peasants and "landowners", non-resident and Cossacks, workers and "breeders", tops and intellectuals, and the national question, all this happened, and then "exploded." And there was also the First World War, which "accustomed" to the ordinariness of death and violence. There was a willingness to accept violence, and it was accepted by the parties towards their opponents. Therefore, the mythologization of the red terror is its consideration in isolation from the white terror, from social and other reasons.

Another mythologization is the linkage of its appearance to the initial period of Soviet power. Actually, until the summer of 1918, the central Soviet government did not apply it. Moreover, canceled the initiative for its introduction. You can, for example, mention that the question of its introduction was considered by the Central Committee in May 1918, but was rejected as an untimely measure. The scale of red terror is also mythologized. In the book, the real statistics of the executions of the Cheka in 1918 were considered in detail, as was the "statistics" of the famous émigré historian Melgunov, which many people still believe. Considered in the book and the fight against abuse in the Cheka, the discussion of the Cheka in the fall of 1918,



Question: Do you just write in your book about the creation of the Cheka, what was the purpose of the organization?

Ilya Ratkovsky: Lenin wrote that the Cheka should, in politics, become the same organ of the dictatorship of the proletariat as the economy created by the Supreme Council of National Economy became. It was about the fact that the predecessor of the Cheka, the Petrograd Military Revolutionary Committee, did not cope with the situation in the country. There were three problems that he was able to solve in the autumn period: sabotage, the approaching Constituent Assembly, and banditry. In addition, the All-Russian body of struggle against counter-revolution was needed, and the PVRK, even after its subordination to the All-Russian Central Executive Committee of Soviets, remained only a regional, Petrograd body.

Question: Is the Cheka a brainchild of Lenin or is it Dzerzhinsky?

Ilya Ratkovsky: Lenin and Sverdlov. It was Lenin who appointed and approved the candidacy of the chairman of the Cheka - Felix Dzerzhinsky. Sverdlov sent many members to the leadership of the new body. But then the role of Dzerzhinsky is decisive. He to a lesser extent recommended new members in the Cheka (unlike, for example, Peters), but he developed the basic instructions of the Cheka, determined the areas of activity, and gave an example of his behavior to other Chekists. It was he who conducted and cleansing the Cheka from stained by the abuse and crimes of the KGB.



Question: The Bolsheviks, when they came to power, first abolished the death penalty, they forget about it today - what were their plans originally? And what made this punitive practice return?

Ilya Ratkovsky: Initially it was assumed that the dictatorship of the majority, by virtue of this majority, would quickly crush the resistance of the minority. Lenin in his work "The State and the Revolution" wrote directly that this resistance would be short and would not require the creation of any special all-Russian body. Enough bodies with local councils. Under these conditions, the death penalty could not be used. It was important to follow its pre-October promise. And the Bolsheviks promised to abolish the death penalty, so the first decree of the Soviet government was its abolition, and the Decree on Peace was adopted after that. However, it was already realized that a new situation is possible, when it can be resumed. 18 February 1918 began the offensive of the German troops. 21 February 1918, under the conditions of the offensive, the decree "Socialist Fatherland in danger" was published. In it, among other measures, a shooting was introduced at the crime scene. Thus, the reason for the resumption of the death penalty was the need to strengthen the rear in the face of the beginning of the German offensive.

Question: Was it that the Cheka was shot, as some say, “without trial, without investigation, just like that, for an anecdote, for nothing”? And what is the real scale of the repression of the Cheka?

Ilya Ratkovsky: The Cheka was a state body, and the practice of its actions proceeded within the framework of an emerging revolutionary law. It is another matter that the revolutionary law itself implied court and sentence, taking into account revolutionary expediency. Old courts and laws were abolished by decree on court number XXUMX, even before the formation of the Cheka. Introduced people's courts and revtribunaly. The Cheka until the end of the autumn 1 was outside this court system. Therefore, the actions of the Cheka were declared by decrees and resolutions of the highest Soviet bodies and instructions of the Cheka. The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution, Sabotage and Crimes of office was a shield and sword of Soviet power. Abuses, of course, were. There were executions that even took place beyond the framework of this revolutionary legality. They fought against it, up to executions, but it was. There was also a reorganization by the highest Soviet organs of the VChK in the autumn of 1918.

Another thing that often indicates these cases, but does not mention their proceedings, as the Cheka, and the Soviet authorities. The scale of this phenomenon is often exaggerated. Actually, the scale of the repressive practices of the Cheka is exaggerated. If to speak scientifically, there were no “hundreds of thousands” shot by the bodies of the Cheka during the civil war. About 50 thousand people were shot. This includes the execution of the All-Ukrainian Cheka in the spring and summer of 1919 (20 thousand), in the Crimea at the end of 1920 - the beginning of 1921 (8-12 thousand). At the same time, these executions included both executions for counterrevolutionary activities, and banditry, various abuses of co-workers, etc. I note the dynamics of the shootings. In the first half of 1918, all the Cheka of Russia shot 200 people, most of them for banditry.

Question: Were serious opponents of the Cheka - a professional opposition? Foreigners?

Ilya Ratkovsky: Everything and a lot. Often, open organizations included thousands of armed units. Here you can mention Savinkovskiy "Union for the Defense of Homeland and Freedom" 1918, Moscow Headquarters of the Volunteer Army 1919. Real organizations with plans for the armed overthrow of the Bolsheviks. There was a strong underground, organized by the British and French intelligence services. Everything was.

Question: The Cheka is one of the strongest intelligence services afterwards, right? How did this happen? After all, nonprofessionals, revolutionaries, as some of them are positioning today, “the troublemakers who destroyed the country”, and yet created such a highly organized and professional structure?

Ilya Ratkovsky: There were several moments that "helped this." First, life itself taught. Experience in the face of constant opposition to foreign intelligence. Secondly, the help of the population. Often the signals went from there. This helped open up the underground networks. Again, the experience grew. Third, do not underestimate the experience of professional revolutionaries. For many years they had learned to “leave” from the secret police, to identify its agents. For example, Dzerzhinsky engaged in the Polish Social Democracy to identify provocateurs. Security methods they went through their own lives.



Question: Were they taken to the service of those who held similar positions under the old regime? Was there a danger here? Or ideologically recruited?

Ilya Ratkovsky: In the initial period of activity there. There was a fundamental rejection of this practice. Later the technical staff was taken into account and attracted. Some figures (General Dzhunkovsky) advised security officers on certain features of gendarme work. Instructions were also studied, for example, on surveillance and other methods of work.

Question: What was the fundamental difference between the Cheka and the similar structure under the tsarist regime?

Ilya Ratkovsky: The principal difference was primarily in the tasks. The tasks of the Cheka are wider, from the struggle against internal counter-revolution to the opposition of agents of foreign states. More actively Cheka acted abroad. Well, much more significant is the role of the Cheka in the fight against crimes of the post and economic crimes.

Question: A lot is said about honor, about the morality of the KGB, and the personality of Dzerzhinsky fascinates many with its inflexibility, is it a romantic aura left from the Soviet era, or can you really prove the integrity of the VChK with facts?

Ilya Ratkovsky: In my opinion, we can speak in this regard with reference to specific leaders of the Cheka. For example, there were not only ideological Bolsheviks, but also opportunists. There were bribe takers, but they were identified and shot, sometimes sent to bathe in blood to the front. Yes, and some ideological Chekists were supporters of extreme measures, maximalists.

Dzerzhinsky tried to create a certain ethic of behavior of the Chekists, but it was a civil war and not everything reached the employees of the Cheka, was accepted by them. The example of Dzerzhinsky, of course, played a role. The very same system, hard work sometimes "broke" them. There are cases of requests from the security officers for a transfer to military, economic work. There was a lot of stress. But there was among the security officers and an understanding of the need for their work. Most worked for the revolution, not for themselves.

From the editors. On the eve of .RU congratulates the state security employees on their professional holiday and wishes to follow the main principles of the Chekists, according to Felix Dzerzhinsky's covenant - “a cold head, a warm heart and clean hands”!

Author:
Originator:
https://www.nakanune.ru/articles/113550/
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech 24 December 2017 06: 39 New
    10
    However, one must understand that neither revolution is done in white gloves, nor counter-revolution.

    About the gloves ... what liberalism writes the same nonsense as about hundreds of billions personally repressed by STALIN ...
    “The specialty of the Kharkov Cheka, where Saenko acted, was, for example, scalping and removing gloves from the hands ... That city was famous for the name Saenka. It was said about him that he said that of all the apples, he loves only eyeballs ... ”
    belay
    http://maxpark.com/community/5325/content/6133623
    The history of the emergence and existence of Cheka is extremely interesting ...
    in a short time, the Bolshevik party was able to create a full-fledged body of state coercion of the internal enemies of Soviet RUSSIA.
    A very efficient and professional device ... of course, not without flaws ... but fools were never kept there.
    1. tasha
      tasha 24 December 2017 08: 26 New
      +6
      However, one must understand that neither revolution is done in white gloves, nor counter-revolution.

      However, the revolutionaries won. They also shot the internal enemies of their power after victory. And what is the result? The state they built lasted 70 years and collapsed ... Ie killed in vain or killed a little ...... Which option would you choose?
      1. odometer
        odometer 24 December 2017 11: 15 New
        +5
        Few and not those ...
      2. Ragoz
        Ragoz 25 December 2017 00: 55 New
        +5
        tasha:
        The main motto of the victorious October was "Land - to the peasants, factories - to the workers, peace be upon the peoples!
        Now, under modern power, "Land to the landlords, Factories and plants to the oligarchs, War to the People.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 25 December 2017 01: 14 New
          10
          Quote: Ragoz
          The main motto of the victorious October was ... Now under modern power ...

          Thick negative
      3. iouris
        iouris 25 December 2017 15: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: tasha
        The state they built lasted 70 years and fell apart ...

        And if not built?
        1. tasha
          tasha 25 December 2017 16: 14 New
          +1
          Then it would not fall apart. Which question is the answer. wink

          What would you and I can only speculate.
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 24 December 2017 09: 28 New
      +8
      Quote: The same Lech
      about hundreds of billions personally repressed by STALIN

      No one has ever voiced such crap, with the exception of just one sick person.
      Quote: The same Lech
      Of course not without faults ... but fools were never kept there.

      Inaccuracies? Executions without trial? Or are you talking about robberies of Chekists allegedly "for the needs of a young republic"?
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 24 December 2017 14: 06 New
        +9
        But the supporters of the white movement did not get carried away by robberies?
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 24 December 2017 21: 15 New
          +3
          Quote: Okolotochny
          But the supporters of the white movement did not get carried away by robberies?

          If you follow your logic, then whites are anti-government militarized associations that essentially fought against the legitimate Bolshevik government, right? That your comparisons are not correct, the Cheka is an official civil service that did not shy from robberies, but the whites could just rob since they are bandits in your opinion. It’s like now to compare the FSB roofing of a business with competitors where the business roofs organized crime groups laughing
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 24 December 2017 21: 39 New
            +7
            If you follow your logic, then whites are anti-government militarized associations that essentially fought against the legitimate Bolshevik government, right? That your comparisons are not correct, the Cheka is an official civil service that did not shy from robberies, but the whites could just rob since they are bandits in your opinion. It’s like now to compare the FSB roofing of a business with competitors where the business roofs organized crime groups

            No need to try to see what was not. I don't blame anyone. I am against the fact that one hang negative labels, and canonize others. I repeat, there are no right-wingers in the Civil War. "Good" were both one and the other. This, as for ideologists, etc. With regards to professionalism - Dzerzhinsky really created an effective organization. And "snot and tears for innocent" tell others. I wrote below to one of Israel - let Catherine 2, Potemkin, Suvorov and betray ostracism like them - PEOPLE OWNED, Suvorov "suppressed the Polish liberation uprising against the tsar’s yoke." I agree with the writer -
            Russian society was not uniform before the revolution. The confrontation between peasants and "landowners", nonresident and Cossacks, workers and "breeders", the upper classes and the intelligentsia, and the national question, all this was, and then "exploded." And there was also the First World War, which "accustomed" to the routine of death and violence. There was a willingness to accept violence, and it was accepted by the parties in relation to their opponents. Therefore, the mythologization of the Red Terror is its consideration in isolation from the White Terror, from social and other reasons.

            Better not tell.
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 24 December 2017 21: 59 New
              +2
              Quote: Okolotochny
              . I am against the fact that one hang negative labels, and canonize others.

              White is not canonized, unlike the red deity of Lenin, who was elevated to the rank of new gods.
              Quote: Okolotochny
              And "snot and tears for innocent" tell others.

              Tears have already cast everything and by the way those who killed too.
              Do you insist there were no innocents?
              Quote: Okolotochny
              Suvorov "crushed the Polish liberation uprising

              And he did it right, only now explain what is the connection between the suppression of the armed uprising in Poland and the executions by pressing the property by the Chekists?
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 26 December 2017 05: 50 New
                +3
                Quote: RUSS with executions of squeezing property by security officers?

                "In the Urals and Siberia, they have accumulated huge reserves of all good and are most concerned about its preservation and export; after all, they demanded from us three million rubles for the imperial lapidary factory transferred to us under the pretext that they had developed it with new machines and machines; when is the boss engineers of the Tyumen district, Colonel Grekov began to take these "new" cars, among them were removed from the forts of Vladivostok, including diesel engines from fort number 6, the builder of which was once this same Grekov; it is obvious that the rest Many cars were purchased in the same store without an owner called Russia.Now Czechs are carrying around 600 loaded wagons, very carefully guarded; they claim that they are their food supplies, but when moving east, we avoid wagons offered them to hand over this food and get the equivalent in Irkutsk and Krasnoyarsk, they categorically refused; according to counterintelligence, these cars are filled with cars, machine tools, precious metals, paintings, various valuable furniture and utensils, etc. good collected in the Urals and Siberia. "Von Budberg A.P. "Diary of the White Guard."
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 26 December 2017 11: 35 New
                  0
                  there were also those Latvians
                  In the revolution, didn’t they even fight so that there were no rich people in the framework of state policy?
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 26 December 2017 12: 01 New
                    +2
                    You do not know that the Latvians were there and there? And also the Hungarians, the same Chinese, I'm not talking about the interventionists.
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 26 December 2017 14: 48 New
                      0
                      Those Latvians who were "there" were at home and also against the Russians.
                      in fact, the Reds were interventionists; the official ones sometimes helped them.
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 26 December 2017 15: 25 New
                        +3
                        What a twist! I will not ask about who the "official" ones are. And Green, thought that because of the late time, brains are boiling, and this turns out to be a continuous process.
                    2. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 26 December 2017 16: 05 New
                      0
                      The coup, February-October. These are not those who unofficially arrived in a sealed carriage. What’s the whole bell on Ava? Is it a healthy lifestyle promotion or an omission?
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 27 December 2017 03: 18 New
                        +3
                        You’ll tear yourself away from the training manual, look around the surrounding space, maybe around what else is, and not just anti-Soviet cliches of not the first freshness. Maybe at least a second?
                    3. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 27 December 2017 05: 30 New
                      0
                      Looked around. To introduce into cognitive dissonance? So far, half have not been rebuilt.
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 27 December 2017 08: 55 New
                        +2
                        In order to enter into dissonance again, you need to start from the old to get out.
                    4. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 27 December 2017 23: 29 New
                      0
                      For your business here you are better suited. Perhaps she will help you out of it for the first time.
                    5. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 27 December 2017 23: 31 New
                      0
                      Or such black and white:
                      https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A
                      Nd9GcTKWoYZCebDF_Eyvgjrw2UD0Yv0gmzKrxBONxtl1PuM0t
                      G1KNLZLQ
      2. not main
        not main 24 December 2017 22: 47 New
        +3
        Quote: RUSS
        Executions without trial? Or are you talking about robberies of Chekists allegedly "for the needs of a young republic"?

        Did you take part yourself? Or where are the woods from?
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 24 December 2017 23: 17 New
          +1
          Quote: non-primary
          Did you take part yourself? Or where are the woods from?

          "Red banditry" became a problem after the end of the Civil War. What was the norm during the years of War Communism and the surplus appraisal became undesirable under the NEP. The "Red banditry" was also dealt with by the Chekists themselves.
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 24 December 2017 23: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: non-primary
          Quote: RUSS
          Executions without trial? Or are you talking about robberies of Chekists allegedly "for the needs of a young republic"?

          Did you take part yourself? Or where are the woods from?

          Read the interview of the head of the FSB Bortnikov that he recently gave to Rossiyskaya Gazeta
      3. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 25 December 2017 01: 11 New
        11
        Quote: RUSS
        Quote: The same Lech
        about hundreds of billions personally repressed by STALIN

        Such crap no one has ever voiced, with the exception of a single sick person

        RUSSDo you know the word "sarcasm"?
        So here - it was he.
        * For reference: the population of the Earth as of 01.01.2016/7.3/XNUMX is about XNUMX billion people.
        And no, of course, "hundreds of billions" request
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 25 December 2017 08: 10 New
          +2
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          RUSS, do you know the word "sarcasm"?
          So here - it was he ...
          * For reference: the population of the Earth as of 01.01.2016/7.3/XNUMX is about XNUMX billion people.
          And no, of course, "hundreds of billions"

          I realized that this was sarcasm, but there was some person who claimed on one TV channel that there were thousands of victims, the host asked him again, “thousands of millions”? He confirmed - yes.
      4. avva2012
        avva2012 26 December 2017 06: 07 New
        0
        Quote: RUSS Executions without trial or investigation? Or are you talking about robberies of Chekists supposedly "for the needs of a young republic"?

        “For some reason, this captain liked me immediately. Tall, handsome, tanned, with a white saber scar across his forehead and an earring in his ear, he was soldierly simple-hearted and rude, loved specific cavalry words, and was distinguished by some severe knighthood of manners and character. Grunt must have been desperate. For some reason, he reminded me of Nikolai Rostov from War and Peace. He did not believe in Denikin’s victory. He looked at volunteers, especially at cavalrymen, with amateur disdain. the cavalryman should be four with his horse’s legs, like on his own, and this one sits like a dog on a fence. I asked him a little insidiously about Budenny. He thoughtfully held out:
        - Y-yes ... Konnik is good! ... of our training ... Then he glanced vividly at me and said: - However, Budyonny is no good ... these "proletarians on horses" are real scum! I always shoot, these horsemen ... Reds taken prisoner, he, he said, ordered to “beat long and tedious”, and then “let him go to the expense.” - Red officers, he himself always ... He revived with with a glowing gaze, he continued: “Put him, Judas, after interrogation against the wall.” Rifle at the ready, and you begin to slowly point ... First, aim at the eyes; then you quietly drive the barrel down to your stomach, and - bang! You see how he wriggles in front of the barrel, belly draws in; how he takes birch on fire, darling, he takes it, he will take anger: two times you will lead the muzzle at him, let him suffer, and then you will finish. Yes, not right away, but in order to torment myself to the fullest ... I didn’t allow the wounded to finish: let them feel ...In general, the attitude towards the captured Red Army by volunteers was terrible. General Denikin’s order to this effect was openly violated, and he was called a “woman” for this. Violence was sometimes allowed such that the most avid front-line soldiers spoke of them with a touch of shame. William G. Ya. "The Vanquished"
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 26 December 2017 11: 39 New
          0
          And did someone take hostages from whites or immediately shoot them?
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 26 December 2017 12: 03 New
            +1
            No, there they fed them with bread rolls after they flogged and fired. You take the Ratkovsky book, there are links to the sea. Both on white terror and on red.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 26 December 2017 14: 51 New
              0
              You did not answer about hostage families. If a person didn’t go “with them,” then the Reds shot them, or even if someone just didn’t want to become a snitch.
              Why, go to YouTube, watch the movie "Red Terror", Spas channel.
              And there are plenty of articles on this topic.
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 26 December 2017 15: 38 New
                +2
                What for? Read the book, everything is there. Ilya Ratkovsky: Book "Chronicle of the Red Terror of the Cheka. The Punishing Sword of the Revolution." I read about the White Terror, the author, there are many links. I think the same story in this book. Do not like it, do not read. Only civil war, this is not a children's party. “Whites” lost in this war, because, “reds”, they supported the people. Apparently, not everything was so simple with the hostages, in fact. And since the people supported the “Reds” and gentlemen, who managed, were shed for the cordon, so the people were right. The majority of our people are not intimidated by threats and violence, which the Great Patriotic War once again proved. Oh, how they tried, how they tried, new gentlemen, superhuman. Did not work out. And they threw this shit out, fertilizing, part of them the soil. So it was and will be.
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 26 December 2017 16: 24 New
                  0
                  About families? The people did not support the Reds, they enslaved it partially, and the genocide of the Russian foreigners continued until Yezhov, who destroyed most of these red terrorists. Most whites were alas, too, demons only painted in a different color. Derived from February. They fought not for the Russian people (Faith, Tsar and Fatherland) but for the Constituent Assembly, in which Masons such as Kerensky, who loved to dress in women's dresses, were sitting. They were still green, they also had the same leader, and cursed even better than Lenin. The monarchist from the land was only the half-Tatar Kornilov, but at the very beginning of the campaign he was killed by a crazy shell (of course there are no accidents).
                  In the Second World War, the people’s families were already generally in their rear, and the Germans (also violating the laws of the war) took hostages, but not so that someone would knock or go to Vlasov. Behind the rear were families and Poles, who were therefore able to fight back from Tukhachevsky.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 27 December 2017 03: 21 New
                    +3
                    "How scary to live."
                    but not so that someone would knock or go to the Vlasovites.
                    Ales Adamovich "Punishers", everything is perfectly described there, what for what and why.
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 27 December 2017 05: 33 New
                      0
                      Play here half a page like Teterina. Preferably with a photo attachment. For example, the basement of the Ipatiev House.
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 27 December 2017 09: 01 New
                        +2
                        Taper, today is not in the mood. Play it yourself or to the Lieutenant, he smacks you with something fresh, like a fellow for reason and emotional organization.
                    2. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 27 December 2017 23: 34 New
                      0
                      For a true communist, this should not depend on the mood and knowledge of bondage.
                      Also artistically, with “fresh snow falling” and other irrelevant details.
    3. Monarchist
      Monarchist 24 December 2017 10: 08 New
      +8
      Lech, you're right: "the history of the emergence and existence of the Cheka is extremely interesting"
      How to treat the Bolsheviks, but they were able to create a lot and quality. So is the Cheka: in a short time, a highly professional intelligence service has developed.
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 24 December 2017 07: 21 New
    13
    The thesis of the marginality of October is put forward precisely by the marginals of science.
    ... It is precisely said ..
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 24 December 2017 19: 39 New
      +2
      I really liked this definition about the marginalized from science. It is necessary to memorize! And then I met repeatedly.
  3. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 24 December 2017 07: 30 New
    11
    The so-called “Cheka” is, first of all, a punitive organization of the terrorist type, created by the Bolsheviks to maintain power. Here is a quote from the Chekist Latsis:
    We exterminate unnecessary classes of people. Do not look at the investigation for materials and evidence that the accused acted in word or deed against the Soviets. The first question is what class it belongs to, what kind of origin, upbringing, education or profession it is. These questions should determine the fate of the accused. This is the meaning and essence of the Red Terror. "
    http://istmat.info/node/21497
    These are the words of a terrorist, not a statesman.
    And the reference to the “historian” Ratkovsky, who in his opus about the “white terror” comes to the attribution of anarchists and banal criminals to the acts of white crime, is simply ridiculous.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 24 December 2017 08: 12 New
      12
      These are the words of a terrorist, not a statesman.

      smile Each person sees in the Cheka what he wants to see on the basis of his political predilections ...
      For me, the Cheka is just an instrument in the hands of the Bolshevik party ... a double-edged and dangerous instrument that can cripple the one who holds it ... so it happened then.

      The tasks of this political organization were formulated as follows: to prosecute and eliminate all counter-revolutionary and sabotage attempts and actions throughout Russia, no matter who they come from; bring to trial the revolutionary tribunal of all saboteurs and counter-revolutionaries and the development of measures to combat them; conduct a preliminary investigation. As punitive measures, it was proposed to apply to enemies such as: confiscation of property, eviction, deprivation of food cards, publication of lists of counterrevolutionaries, etc.
    2. 27091965
      27091965 24 December 2017 10: 26 New
      11
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      The so-called “Cheka” is, first of all, a punitive organization of the terrorist type, created by the Bolsheviks to maintain power.


      You might think that in other states with opponents of the authorities, discussions were held only at the table with a cup of tea and cake. It turns out the Bolsheviks came up with a state security service. Pioneers, what else can I say.
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 24 December 2017 12: 41 New
        10
        In other states, if you have forgotten, opponents of the government were attracted to the court behind real wrongful acts, and not for the origin or membership of a social group. Repression against people on a group basis, and not for a specific act, is a characteristic feature of terrorism, and not state power.
        1. 27091965
          27091965 24 December 2017 13: 38 New
          +8
          In other states, if you have forgotten, opponents of the authorities have been brought to trial for real wrongful acts.


          If we take the time from 1910 to 1930, how many courts were held, in democratic Western countries, over opponents of the existing government, or antiwar front-line protests in the Entente troops, according to democratic principles, were eradicated by persuasion, and this is the voice of a people who do not want to continuation of the war.
          The people fulfill the wishes of those in power, but if they don’t like something, the FSB, SBU, FBI have something to do with it. The people is a performer under any authority.

          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Repression against people on a group basis, and not for a specific act, is a characteristic feature of terrorism, and not state power.




          This was probably all done by offended housewives.
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 25 December 2017 21: 27 New
            +1
            No, priests, academics, bastard peasants and an engineer.
            The revolution with its Red Terror spread along the railways. It was difficult with an ax to a proletarian armored train, so it was a logical, though not the most correct step to sort out the paths. Unless of course it was all not in Ryazan.
        2. Looking for
          Looking for 24 December 2017 16: 39 New
          +4
          Do you hear. The lover. Can you remind the Great French. Where hundreds of thousands were guillotined. Only for the title and membership in the nobility.?
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 24 December 2017 17: 58 New
            10
            My dear, I did not drink with you on the Brudershaft. So "poke" will be in a different place and to other people.
            Quote: Seeker
            Hundreds of thousands were guillotined. Only for the title and membership in the nobility.?

            And do you think this was not a crime? Do you share the views that justify the destruction of people on the basis of belonging to a particular group? If so, how do you differ from those convicted by the Nuremberg Tribunal?
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 26 December 2017 05: 32 New
              +3
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin Do you share the views that justify the destruction of people on the basis of belonging to a particular group?

              “The activities of the Volunteer Counterintelligence to clean Kiev“ of criminal elements: communists, commissars, and other abominations were widespread. ”All house committees and landlords were ordered to immediately inform their tenants who had moved into an apartment or house over the past month.
              The denunciation epidemic has begun. Hundreds of innocent people who seemed "suspicious" were driven daily under guard to check in counterintelligence prisons. Their interrogation was carried out “with bias”: ill-treatment, bullying, beatings, torture, violence against arrested women, etc. With a huge number of those arrested with interrogations, they did not creep. Many "suspicious" did not survive until the next day. Prison unloading was also carried out without much red tape. In this case, military units helped counterintelligence. The headquarters of General Glasenin eliminated the "suspicious" primarily on one significant basis: "Jew". The "culprit" was immediately allowed to "flow". In this way, during the month and a half of occupation in Kiev, according to official estimates of the Dobrarmiia, 2000 “communists” and “sympathizers” were destroyed. Poetics N. P. "Memoirs".
              “It was known that what was going on in the dungeons of the counterintelligence of Novorossiysk resembled the darkest times of the Middle Ages. Getting to this terrible place, and from there to the grave, was as easy as possible. As soon as some agent was discovered by a happy inhabitant of the volunteer army area a sufficient amount of money, according to his agent’s concept, and he could set up a hunt for him according to all the rules of counterintelligence art, he could just shoot him in a secluded place, put in his pocket a compromising document, a gross falsification ikation, and the deed was done. The robber-agent, according to the laws published on this subject, received something about 80 percent of the amount found during the arrest of the “commissioner.” The population was terrorized and was ready to pay anything voluntarily, only to get rid of the attached pea coat without bringing the matter to the police station. It happened something like this: the whole philistine masses as a whole were “questioned” in the sense of its political trustworthiness; on the other hand, there was a standing one - like Caesar's wife! - higher suspicion of front-line officers; they were followed by: counterintelligence, criminal investigation, and, finally, state guards, acting under the protection of the highest authorities in complete unity with a gang of speculators, robbers and murderers. All this hostess, which finally destroyed the Volunteer Army, was equally dangerous for the population of the "deep rear", in relation to it, hostess, absolutely deprived of the elementary human and civil rights. Everyone who wore English overcoats and a semblance of epaulette walked in Novorossiysk armed to the teeth; they launched whips, revolvers and rifles for any reason and, as if, were not liable for this. For everything else was suspected of discontent, betrayal of a voluntary cause, malicious speculation, Bolshevik and socialist agitation, or at least “spreading false rumors” and belonging to to the Jews. William G. Ya. "The Vanquished." Read Teterin, memories, read Lieutenant. This, you do not "red" propaganda, this is the memory of those who unlike youwent through all that horror.
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 26 December 2017 10: 30 New
                +7
                The “memoirs” of the Soviet historian Poletik and some “memoirs of the White Guard William”, whose biography is nowhere to be found, are a “reliable” source, there is nothing to say. You would have read the real memoirs of the White Guards, in contrast to the fakes and opuses of Soviet historians.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 26 December 2017 10: 43 New
                  +1
                  Naturally, since in the memoirs of the journalist William G. Ya., Who saw the civil war, the iconic image of the "savior" from the "Bolshevik infection" is invisible, is there a lie written there? Read Denikin, where one of the reasons for the failed trip to Moscow, he brings a huge convoy of Cossacks from looted goods. Read other memories (if you want, you'll find). I think you know them well, you are not a stupid person. Rather, you consider yourself as such, unlike those to whom you push the “white idea”.
                2. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 26 December 2017 11: 41 New
                  0
                  2000 "suspicious" for the whole of Kiev? It’s strange.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 26 December 2017 12: 03 New
                    +1
                    Well, you know better, you were there.
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 26 December 2017 14: 57 New
                      0
                      Generally you wrote about it.
          2. RUSS
            RUSS 24 December 2017 21: 04 New
            +2
            Quote: Seeker
            Do you hear. The lover. Can you remind the Great French. Where hundreds of thousands were guillotined. Only for the title and membership in the nobility.?

            Stop lining up with the obviously winning option, otherwise it looks like "- and in America blacks are hanged."
            I do not care what happened in France, we are talking about Russia
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 24 December 2017 22: 38 New
              +3
              Quote: RUSS
              I do not care what happened in France, we are talking about Russia

              Those. You want to say that spherical Russia has always existed, exists and will exist in a spherical vacuum? And that any analogies with countries outside this divine, vacuum bubble are false?
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 24 December 2017 22: 44 New
                +1
                Quote: HanTengri
                Quote: RUSS
                I do not care what happened in France, we are talking about Russia

                Those. You want to say that spherical Russia has always existed, exists and will exist in a spherical vacuum? And that any analogies with countries outside this divine, vacuum bubble are false?

                I want to say that you don’t need to shake your head in the direction of the neighbors saying- "and there it was even worse."
                1. 27091965
                  27091965 24 December 2017 22: 51 New
                  +6
                  Quote: RUSS
                  I want to say that you don’t need to shake your head in the direction of the neighbors saying- "and there it was even worse."


                  I agree you shouldn’t blame the neighbors, we ourselves aren’t "basted." If you wish, find and read this book.
                  1. RUSS
                    RUSS 24 December 2017 23: 18 New
                    +1
                    Quote: 27091965i
                    Quote: RUSS
                    I want to say that you don’t need to shake your head in the direction of the neighbors saying- "and there it was even worse."


                    I agree you shouldn’t blame the neighbors, we ourselves aren’t "basted." If you wish, find and read this book.

                    Do not confuse rods with a revolver
                    1. 27091965
                      27091965 24 December 2017 23: 49 New
                      +5
                      Do not confuse rods with a revolver


                      You read this book, it describes well why the death penalty was replaced with a whip. It turns out to be more humane than beating. Such teachers we had, oh-hoo, bricks were knocked out of the wall with a whip. In addition, they published it under Nicholas II, here you can’t point out the propaganda of the Bolsheviks.
                2. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 24 December 2017 23: 13 New
                  +6
                  Quote: RUSS
                  I want to say that you don’t need to shake your head in the direction of the neighbors saying- "and there it was even worse."

                  Inspired by:
                  One day a neighbor came to Khoja Nasreddin and asked him for a rope.
                  -No how, now, I can’t give. On her wife dries flour
                  “Hodge, are you out of your mind?” How can flour be dried on a rope?
                  - Easy! Especially if you do not want to give it!

                  Threat. This is to the characteristics of your perception. And to the fact that "shake your head in the direction of the neighbors," and point out the general laws of things, called: "revolution from below" - these are two big differences!
                  1. RUSS
                    RUSS 24 December 2017 23: 23 New
                    +1
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    Threat. This is to the characteristics of your perception. And to the fact that "shake your head in the direction of neighbors," and point out the general laws of the mess, under the name: "revolution from below" - these are two big differences!

                    Urapatriots and other idolaters behave like a married couple in the kitchen, this couple is not doing well in the family, and this couple is discussing neighbors, especially only those who, in their opinion, are even worse off and, against this background, it seems that they do not so bad laughing
        3. Hantengri
          Hantengri 24 December 2017 20: 20 New
          +5
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Repression against people by group, and not for a specific act, a characteristic feature of terrorism, and not state power.

          РќСѓ, РґР °! laughing Offhand: "Blaarodnye" Romans vs Christians, Christians vs Gentiles, Muslims vs everything that moves about Alla and the bar does not yell, Henry V ||| vs Catholics, Karl | X vs Huguenots, English aristocrats vs English peasants (fencing, followed by vagrancy and hanging for it) Nikonians vs Old Believers, French bourgeois vs aristocrats .... Straight, there never was such a thing in the world, and here again ! lol And even no one about terrorism and criminal power is not soared! Strange ...
        4. avva2012
          avva2012 26 December 2017 05: 46 New
          +3
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin Repressions against people on a group basis, and not for a specific act — a characteristic feature of terrorism, and not state power.

          “The newspaper where I worked received daily short notes received by the chronicler in the police about the murders of those arrested during their transfer to the places of detention. These notes were always placed under the same heading:“ failed escape. ”These notes were originally edited by police recorders as follows:“ when escorted to prison, he attempted to flee, for which he was killed. "Subsequently, this edition seemed embarrassing to the authorities, and was amended as follows:" attempted to flee and, after a three-time call, was killed by the convoy " "The appearance of legality was respected, which was required: people were not killed in vain, but only after three warnings, if that didn’t help ..." William G. Ya. "The Vanquished"

          "... Anarchy, military terror and bureaucratic anarchy. The inhabitants froze in fear, burning with hatred for the volunteers. They saw this and trembled with despair in their hands. Mutual bitterness, enmity, betrayal reigned. The results of arbitrariness and predation affected. The railroad authorities sold trains to government agencies. The drivers only drove for money and alcohol, or with revolvers attached to their temples ... " William G. Ya. "The Vanquished" Teterin, all these books can now be found if you wish. None of the authors of these books have been accused of being prone to "left" views. Unlike you, they were true participants in the events.
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 26 December 2017 11: 50 New
            0
            Didn't these three kill someone else’s family like this before?
            https://nancycdibenedetto.files.wordpress.com/201
            0/10 / eddie-adams-icon.png
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 26 December 2017 12: 06 New
              +2
              And this one, who is this? Anyway, do you want to start a discussion about the Vietnam War? Well, is there the use of napalm and defoliants?
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 26 December 2017 14: 59 New
                0
                And google it. This was to the fact that the communist revolutions everywhere were the same. You can smoothly move to Kampuchea, it is not far there.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 26 December 2017 15: 44 New
                  +3
                  True? A long time ago, I have not heard about Kampuchea. Do not mention it, you are behind the times. You do not know that the Khmer Rouge, the same communists as the Red Brigades. The color they use in the name is the same.
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 26 December 2017 16: 31 New
                    0
                    Khmer Rouge are Maoist Communists. China supported them by attacking Vietnam in 1979. We would also read what Red Terror was in Spain during their civil war.
                    in general, normal Communists except the Stalinists have never been and never are.
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 27 December 2017 03: 43 New
                      +3
                      Their China was supported by attacking Vietnam in 1979.

                      China and Vietnam have territorial problems, and all conflicts between the two countries since the Second World War have occurred because of them. And something I have big doubts that you understand Maoism. I doubt that Mao has ever called for what was in Kampuchea. And the terror in Spain during their civil war is no different from terror in any such war. Read about the war of the North and the South, where are the communists?
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 27 December 2017 05: 35 New
                        0
                        Hesitate. They have no problems, they cut off a lot of things to Vietnamese children in the stadiums and moved back.
    3. Monarchist
      Monarchist 24 December 2017 10: 38 New
      +8
      Lieutenant, you are right: there were people like Latsis in the Cheka. He at least told the truth, that is, in words alone, in fact, others. Menzhinsky was not seen in blood, and Kedrov was favorably disposed to this.
      The more I know the story and the more I come to the conclusion: G. Yagoda and N. I. Yezhov in 1937-38, where, rightly, they did: Dybenko, Latsis, Kedrov and some others.
    4. rotmistr60
      rotmistr60 24 December 2017 11: 59 New
      11
      The so-called "Cheka" is, first of all, it was a punitive organization of the terrorist type
      Lieutenant Teterin, and it turns out that you not only do not understand the goals and objectives for which the Cheka was created, but also try to consciously falsify the history and discredit the above organization.
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 24 December 2017 12: 54 New
        10
        Quote: rotmistr60
        goals and objectives for the solution of which the Cheka was created
        clearly and unambiguously visible from the actions of this organization. And these goals are terror, aimed at strengthening the Bolshevik regime.
        Quote: rotmistr60
        falsify history and discredit the above named organization.
        not necessary. Documents and personalities such as Dzerzhinsky, Saenko, and the leaders of the Kiev "emergency" have long discredited this organization.
        http://d-v-sokolov.livejournal.com/515074.html
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 26 December 2017 05: 15 New
          +3
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin is clearly and unequivocally visible from the actions of this organization. And these goals are terror, aimed at strengthening the Bolshevik regime.

          “The boys think that if they killed and tortured several hundred and thousands of Bolsheviks and muzzled a certain number of commissars, they did a great job, delivered a decisive blow to Bolshevism and brought closer the restoration of the old order of things. The usual psychology of every ambitious platoon who believes that he decided the outcome of the battle and the whole war, but the boys don’t understand that if they indiscriminately raped, tear, rob, torture and kill, then they instill such hatred towards the authorities they represent that the Bolsheviks and can only rejoice in the presence of such a diligent, valuable and beneficent for their employees. " Von Budberg A.P. "Diary of the White Guard."
          "It was difficult for the authorities ... .. there was no need to pardon ... ... each order bore, if not punishment, then a warning about it ... ... It was necessary to exterminate the persons convicted of cooperation with the Bolsheviks without any mercy. Temporarily it was necessary to profess rule: "it is better to punish ten innocents than to justify one guilty." Only firmness and cruelty could give the necessary and quick results. " Lieutenant General Denisov S. V. "Notes. Civil War in the South of Russia 1918-1920."
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 26 December 2017 10: 44 New
            +7
            Do you think you found a couple of quotes "convicting bloody oppressors"? And why are you silent about the reasons why the "boys" hated the Bolsheviks so fiercely?
            Kutepov and Skoblin left the station platform and saw a corpse lying nearby. The railwayman lay curled up with his saber open with his stomach. Miserable and bleeding attributes of masculinity were thrust into his mouth. On a naked chest there is a photograph that depicts two young men in the form of junkers and there was an inscription: "To our dear dad."

            The colonel crossed himself, the captain howled in a rage:

            - Monsters! Bastards!

            He leaned over the photograph.
            - I recognize the blond, he serves in my unit. These despicable villains killed his father! They will pay dearly for me.
            The soldiers gathered around. One of the cadets stepped forward, it was the son of the executed. In the meantime, a carriage arrived at the station; it brought about twenty Bolsheviks taken prisoner at a nearby station. Before anyone could stop him, the junker discharged his carbine into the crowd of prisoners. He was disarmed too late, he sobbed.
            https://biography.wikireading.ru/226621
            That's why. The Reds, brought to the brutality by the agitation of the commissars and the Bolshevik asset, dealt with innocent people with monstrous cruelty. With those on whom the uniform was. Who was born "not in a proletarian family." Who just fell into the hands of the Red-faced Commissioner. After such atrocities against relatives, it is not surprising that whites destroyed red activists like plague rats.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 26 December 2017 11: 15 New
              +1
              Yes, not activists, they destroyed, at least far, very far, not only them alone. Flogging and shooting unarmed peasants is easier.
              I, so I think, that our people are very resourceful, because, feeding 1-2% of the burials, after I threw them away, I did not destroy everyone under the root to the seventh generation. After all of this:
              https://scisne.net/a-533?pg=6 Russia is serfdom. The history of national slavery B.Yu. Tarasov or this one: About the dwellings of St. Petersburg workers. Published in the journal Russian Wealth, 1897, No. 6. http://saint-juste.narod.ru/rabochie_1.html And much, much more. Have suffered. Have eaten to full.
              Von Budberg, right about psychology: “... the boys do not understand that if they indiscriminately force, abuse, rob, torture and kill, then they instill such hatred towards the authorities they represent that the Bolsheviks can only rejoice at the presence of such diligent, valuable and beneficial employees. " He understood, but people like you, who have lived most of your life under the Soviet regime in a warm place, with a full belly and no asshole, will never understand.
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 26 December 2017 11: 30 New
                +1
                I’ll add, really, I like this passage. It is written, however, by the "red writer")):
                "Gregory tore the reins with his reins and drove him to extreme agility. They crossed the hill in a quarter of an hour. In the very first hollow, Gregory jumped off and pulled a whip from under the seat." “What? .. - Sotnik frowned. ... what!
                Gregory briefly waved his whip, with terrible force hit the centurion in the face. Having intercepted the whip, he beat the whip in the face, hands, preventing the centurion from recovering. A shard of broken pince-nez crashed above his eyebrow. Blood trickles fell on his eyes. The centurion initially covered his face with his hands, but the blows became more frequent. He jumped up with a face disfigured by smudges and rage, tried to defend himself, but Gregory, retreating, paralyzed his right hand with a blow to the brush. “For Axinho!” For me! For Axinho! Isho to you for Axinho! For me!
                Whip whistled. Gently spank the bumps. Then he pushed his fists on a hard roadman and rolled on the ground, beat atrociously, bound with the heels of soldier's boots. Weakened, sat in the span, hooted, and, ruining a thousand forces, transferred the horse to the bastard. "He threw the spell near the gate, crumpling a whip, tangled in the floors of his wide-open overcoat, and fled into the public."
                Here, “For Axinho! For me!”, The people after the Revolution, sometimes not only the gentleman whined with a whip. It could be worse. But is it worth them for that, so judge strictly?
              2. Dalailama
                Dalailama 26 December 2017 11: 52 New
                0
                Quote: avva2012
                to the seventh knee

                Accidentally let slip?
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 26 December 2017 12: 09 New
                  +2
                  No, consciously. Read Tarasov. Perhaps your ancestors from those who arranged such a life for the peasants? Then do not read, do not understand. About the homes of workers, the same, informative. Did not try to live in such conditions? I think not, “red”, you have not been given such an opportunity.
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 26 December 2017 15: 03 New
                    0
                    So you are one of them. Are you talking about collective farms again? Read how the workers themselves burned their homes, very informative.
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 26 December 2017 15: 52 New
                      +2
                      Of them? If, suddenly, they still do not understand, I support the communist idea. My grandfather, with whom I managed to communicate, was born 1900 from the peasants. And the rest of the relatives, also peasants. And even if my relatives were from a different class, then reading, comparing, life before and after the revolution, living in the USSR and now, I would choose this very idea, a communist one.
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 26 December 2017 16: 34 New
                        0
                        Reading and comparing. Children at least do not tell scary bedtime stories. Let's write about the sweet life and about the collective farms.
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 27 December 2017 03: 46 New
                      +3
                      And let's go without it? Read for yourself something else, acre anti-Soviet.
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 27 December 2017 05: 37 New
                        0
                        And let's not. Write a quote from V.I. Lenin about the Russian people.
                    3. avva2012
                      avva2012 27 December 2017 09: 07 New
                      +2
                      Uh, no. Have you yourself, all yourself, read the works of V.I. Lenin or from the corresponding site of the quote-book?
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 27 December 2017 23: 39 New
                        0
                        Do you have at least one volume from the complete collection of his works at hand, or did you have difficulty finding it without outright Russophobia and orders for destruction?
    5. Olgovich
      Olgovich 24 December 2017 16: 00 New
      +8
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      These are the words of a terrorist, not a statesman.

      What a regime, such and such figures. To instill terror in the Russian people, who had NEVER encountered such atrocities before, was their only way to stay in power.
      Their methods were purely terrorist: taking and shooting hostages, blackmail, torture.

      What a pity FED was not allowed to survive until 1937, so that he saw how all the founders of the Cheka, his faithful Leninist comrade-in-arms of the Chekists, as: A. X. Artuzov, G. I. Boky, M. Ya. Latsis, M. S. Kedrov, V. N. Mantsev, G. S. Moroz, I. P. Pavlunovsky, Y. X. Peters, M. A. Trilisser, I.S. Unshlikht, V.V. Fomin -saved. Good job has been done! And, alas, he was "left" before ... request
      It remains to imagine how these figures rounded their eyes before being shot: "And what for us FOR WHAT ?!"
      They also killed others who served in the NKVD who grew up from the Cheka, the People’s Commissars Yehuda, Yezhov, Beria, Avvakumov, their deputies, and such figures as: one of the organizers of the “philosophical ship” Ya. S. Agranov, one of Yagoda’s nominees Bulanov P. P ., A. Ya. Lurie, accused of preparing a “terrorist attack” against Yezhov, G. E. Prokofiev, F. I. Eichmans, L. M. Zakovsky, organizer of the “Vesna” case, I. M. Leplevsky, chief of Stalin’s security K. V. Pauker, one of the organizers of the “Kirov stream” G. A. Molchanov, V. A. Balitsky, Z. B. Katsnelson, S. G. Firin, L. B. Zalin, S. M. Shpigelglas, head the construction of the Moscow-Volga Canal Berman M. D. and MANY other NKVD workers. At least they did something good.
      1. 27091965
        27091965 24 December 2017 16: 42 New
        +5
        What a regime, such and such figures. To instill terror in the Russian people, who had NEVER encountered such atrocities before, was their only way to stay in power.


        Nostril cutting was used until 1817, branding - until 1863.
        In 1893, corporal punishment for women was abolished.
        On August 11, 1904 corporal punishment was abolished for peasants and minors.
        On June 30, 1904 corporal punishment in the army and navy was abolished.

        Precisely, not when did not collide, skated "like cheese in butter". Not even anyone remembered.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 24 December 2017 19: 50 New
          +5
          Perhaps it would be better to write a little differently:
          "" Until 1817, nostril cutting was used in Russia! Only 2 years after the abolition of serfdom ceased to brand people in the Republic of Ingushetia !!
          Until 1893 corporal punishment for women was used in the Republic of Ingushetia! "
          Well and further on your list!
        2. verner1967
          verner1967 24 December 2017 20: 11 New
          +3
          Quote: 27091965i
          In 1893, corporal punishment for women was abolished.
          On August 11, 1904 corporal punishment was abolished for peasants and minors.
          On June 30, 1904 corporal punishment in the army and navy was abolished.

          keyword canceledand the Bolsheviks brought everything back
          1. 27091965
            27091965 24 December 2017 21: 06 New
            +4
            the keyword was canceled, and the Bolsheviks brought everything back


            If not difficult, explain when the decree came out?
        3. Olgovich
          Olgovich 24 December 2017 20: 21 New
          +4
          Quote: 27091965i
          What a regime, such and such figures. To instill terror in the Russian people, who had NEVER encountered such atrocities before, was their only way to stay in power.


          Nostril cutting was used until 1817, branding - until 1863.
          In 1893, corporal punishment for women was abolished.
          On August 11, 1904 corporal punishment was abolished for peasants and minors.
          On June 30, 1904 corporal punishment in the army and navy was abolished.

          Precisely, not when did not collide, skated "like cheese in butter". Not even anyone remembered.

          Remember the burning of bonfires and the quartering of the Middle Ages. fool
          Destruction Actions tens of thousands Russian people in 20th century - unlikely: read about the Kiev Cheka, the Kharkov Cheka, etc.
          Despite the fact that in Russia BEFORE these nonhumans, even terrorists were even pardoned or given the mildest punishments. There was a jury trial, the best and most humane judicial system in the world. Therefore, the people were stunned and scared by the actions of non-Russian people.
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 24 December 2017 20: 57 New
            +1
            tens of millions, less than the Red Terror perished in WWII
            scrape you, so you too
            All revolutionaries are the same - all of Russia was one big Vendée, and this action of the Great French Revolution has always been set as an example. By the way, the king and his relatives were killed there, too.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 24 December 2017 21: 24 New
              +3
              Quote: DalaiLama
              tens of millions, less than the Red Terror perished in WWII

              belay
              Quote: DalaiLama
              scrape you, so you too

              А in Russian?
              Quote: DalaiLama
              All revolutionaries are the same - all of Russia was one big Vendée, and this action of the Great French Revolution has always been set as an example. By the way, the king and his relatives were killed there, too.

              Vendée is KONTRRevolyutsiya, to whom it was set as an example? request
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 24 December 2017 22: 03 New
                +1
                Did you not know?
                Vendée is not a counter-revolution. Just normal people wanted to live the old way, go to church with their non-socialized wives and children, rather than swinging bare busts together with Parisian bisexual degenerates on the barricades, and indulge in the French love love werenas.
                For this reactionism they were all killed to the last. The whole province. Their children and wives too.
          2. 27091965
            27091965 24 December 2017 21: 42 New
            +4
            Remember the burning of bonfires and the quartering of the Middle Ages.


            Well, why the Middle Ages, let's better turn to the time before the abolition of serfdom;

            " The rigidity of public punishment lashes the moral sense of the people to such an extent that when it is forgotten the vileness of the crime and the sanctity of legal retaliation are forgotten, but only a feeling of pity for the criminal as a martyr and thereby destroy respect for justice."

            They didn’t think about the savagery of corporal punishment, but about the fact that the rating of justice is going down.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 24 December 2017 22: 14 New
              +4
              Why was there such a wild punishment with sticks or a whip?
              But gilyutin is civilized and European. And the people until 1939 were going to see.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 26 December 2017 06: 48 New
                +3
                Quote: DalaiLama
                Why was there such a wild punishment with sticks or a whip?
                But gilyutin is civilized and European. And the people until 1939 were going to see.

                AHA-HA-HA !!!!!!!!!!! Really going to look at a revolutionary invention? What kind of people? FRENCH! This is the most cultural Europe !!!!! Where is ours before her? That's who never scolded his Great !!!!! French !!!!!
                And the previous post ----- About going to church with wives and bisexual degenerates ?? This is super !!!!! Schaub knew ----- in France, many mosques have now appeared, and churches ---- were closed !!!!! In France ------- 3 floors !!!!!!! THAT turns out why the bisexuals were disgusting even then !!!!
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 26 December 2017 11: 59 New
                  0
                  After this revolution, Emperor Napoleon-1 appeared quickly enough, having killed all the revolutionaries, do not scold him.
                  But now there’s no Vendée.
                2. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 27 December 2017 02: 43 New
                  0
                  After Napoleon-1, there was another revolution in the Franco-Prussian war, but not on such a scale. It was the same.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 25 December 2017 10: 19 New
              +3
              Quote: 27091965i
              Well, why the Middle Ages, let's better turn to the time before the abolition of serfdom;
              "The rigidity of public punishment lashes the moral sense of the people to such an extent that with it they forget the vileness of the crime and the sanctity of legal retribution, but only a feeling of pity for the criminal as a martyr and thereby destroy respect for justice."
              They didn’t think about the savagery of corporal punishment, but about the fact that the rating of justice is going down.

              We are talking (and an article about it) about the TWENTIETH century!
              And in the 20th century in RUSSIA (until October 1917) was one of the best and most humane judicial systems in the world. And crimes committed by nonhumans after the October Revolution were a shock to the people.
              1. 27091965
                27091965 25 December 2017 11: 40 New
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                And in the 20th century in RUSSIA (until October 1917) was one of the best and most humane judicial systems in the world. And crimes committed by nonhumans after the October Revolution were a shock to the people.


                Olgovich, I respect your views. But having access to the archives and not only in our country, though this requires certain costs, but I can afford it so far, you can choose the material so that the Bolsheviks become “white and fluffy”, and the tsar becomes “a fiend of hell” and vice versa. It all depends on what purpose the author pursues. In my opinion, both systems had their own advantages and disadvantages, and this also applies to the system of execution of sentences.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 26 December 2017 07: 08 New
                  +2
                  Quote: 27091965i
                  you can choose the material so that the Bolsheviks become "white and fluffy", and the tsar is "the fiend of hell"

                  Give it a try! And, most importantly, the NUMBERS destroyed do not forget. And the current laws are under Tsarism and under Socialism.
                  hi
          3. RUSS
            RUSS 24 December 2017 22: 04 New
            +4
            Quote: Olgovich
            Remember the burning of bonfires and the quartering of the Middle Ages.

            The urapatriots constantly cite the execution of the French monarch Louis, the cruelty of the English Queen Mary Tudor, etc.
            Baby talk!
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 25 December 2017 00: 37 New
              +2
              That's where there were quarters and bonfires of such an element, then the revolution did not happen.
              The smallest of them were in France and almost did not exist in the Russian Kingdom.
  4. sergo1914
    sergo1914 24 December 2017 09: 27 New
    10
    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
    The so-called “Cheka” is, first of all, a punitive organization of the terrorist type, created by the Bolsheviks to maintain power. Here is a quote from the Chekist Latsis:
    We exterminate unnecessary classes of people. Do not look at the investigation for materials and evidence that the accused acted in word or deed against the Soviets. The first question is what class it belongs to, what kind of origin, upbringing, education or profession it is. These questions should determine the fate of the accused. This is the meaning and essence of the Red Terror. "
    http://istmat.info/node/21497
    These are the words of a terrorist, not a statesman.
    And the reference to the “historian” Ratkovsky, who in his opus about the “white terror” comes to the attribution of anarchists and banal criminals to the acts of white crime, is simply ridiculous.


    So Latsisa in 1938 for excesses and ... that ...

    And what is on the opposite side?
    In the memo A.A. Khvostov's “On Measures to Strengthen the Fight against Internal Bolshevism” (September 8, 1919), compiled using materials from the Poltava department of the All-Russian National Center, noted: “The power of counterintelligence is huge. She was granted the monopoly right of political arrests; it most of all affects the life of society, extracting certain members from its environment. In accordance with her rights to violate the most precious good of a person - the inviolability of his personality, at the moment of great ideological upsurge, it must be put to the proper height and cleaned of its dirty elements. Otherwise, it’s better for her not to exist at all, since it will do more harm than good ”

    So we look in the mirror, in the mirror.

    PS
    1. tasha
      tasha 24 December 2017 09: 59 New
      +2
      The civil war ended in the 1923 year .. Or not?
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 24 December 2017 10: 14 New
        +2
        Quote: tasha
        The civil war ended in the 1923 year .. Or not?

        Many are inclined that by 1925 ....
        1. tasha
          tasha 24 December 2017 11: 09 New
          +2
          Maybe so. I wanted to say, that the opposite side from the sergo1914 commentary ended, and the executions continued ...
      2. avt
        avt 24 December 2017 11: 03 New
        +9
        Quote: tasha
        The civil war ended in the 1923 year .. Or not?

        Or
        It has never been and never will be that the obsolete classes voluntarily surrender their positions without trying to organize resistance. There has never been and will not be that the advancement of the working class towards socialism in a class society could do without struggle and anxiety. On the contrary, the advance towards socialism cannot but lead to the resistance of the exploiting elements to this advance, and the resistance of the exploiters cannot but lead to the inevitable aggravation of the class struggle ... It is necessary to smash and cast aside the rotten theory that with each our advance the class struggle we should seem to be more and more damped, that as our successes the class enemy becomes more and more tame.
        This is not only a rotten theory, but also a dangerous theory, because it puts our people to sleep, leads them into a trap, and gives the class enemy the opportunity to recover in the struggle against Soviet power.
        On the contrary, the more we move forward, the more success we have, the more the remnants of the defeated exploiting classes will become embittered, the sooner they will go to more acute forms of struggle, the more they will harm the Soviet state, the more they will clutch at the most desperate means of struggle as the last means of the doomed ....
        So, no “punishing sword of revolution” turned 100 years old. It rusted in the 80s and crumbled into dust in 1991. When, the Chekists gave free rein to the scammers, having their own tambourine interest. “So we were 74 years old.
    2. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 24 December 2017 13: 03 New
      11
      Yes, many people write about the “horrors of the white counterintelligence”, they just don’t say that the arrests were usually followed by the courts. Which justified many arrested. Unlike the red punitive "Cheka". In general, on the subject of the White Movement special services, I recommend you (if you are interested in this topic) two books by Nikolai Kirmel dedicated to intelligence and counterintelligence of the White armies. These works are not comprehensive, but quite informative and objective.
      1. avt
        avt 24 December 2017 13: 57 New
        +7
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        Yes, many people write about the “horrors of the white counterintelligence”, they just don’t say that the arrests were usually followed by the courts.

        Military field? Well, yes - when the time was, like the red tribunal.
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        Which justified many arrested.

        bully Thank ! Neighing! bully The Reds went further - they also rehabilitated many posthumously even the descendants of pensions were appointed.
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        Unlike the red punitive "Cheka".

        White engaged in terror seriously, for a long time and continuously, in spite of the lost Civil, until the work of punishers in the Patriotic War, when they traveled to the East on a rotational basis. Moreover, in the same Crimea they were quite successful in favor of the Nazis.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 24 December 2017 16: 14 New
          +7
          Quote: avt
          White engaged in terror seriously, for a long time and continuously, in spite of the lost Civil, right up to

          Tell us about the hundreds of thousands of white people executed (as red in 1937-40), the terror of the peasantry 1931-1940 (hundreds of thousands of victims), the peasants killed by them in anti-collective farm uprisings and many other similar crimes (estimated by the USSR Armed Forces).
          Quote: avt
          when they traveled to the East on a rotational basis. Moreover, in the same Crimea it was quite successful in favor of the Nazis.

          Hitlerites served Soviet citizens at times more. Everywhere, not only in Crimea. And very successful.
          1. Looking for
            Looking for 24 December 2017 16: 45 New
            +4
            Here is the poet, you, the Monarchist. Teterin and the like, in the case of a mess, we “slap” without regret.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 24 December 2017 17: 50 New
              +6
              Quote: Seeker
              Here is the poet, you, the Monarchist. Teterin and the like, in the case of a mess, we “slap” without regret.

              You are too keen on people like you, and they are SLATING for you like us, you are mad and mad dogs (they are shooting), Comrade Stalin understood this well. Think about it.
            2. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 24 December 2017 18: 03 New
              13
              Oh, another candidate on our list for life imprisonment under article 282 appeared. Thanks for the notice, we will know who to isolate from normal people in the first place.
            3. Olgovich
              Olgovich 24 December 2017 20: 40 New
              +5
              Quote: Seeker
              Here is the poet, you, the Monarchist. Teterin and the like, in the case of a mess, we “slap” without regret.

              Why is "why"? request Are you afraid of the truth? So it doesn’t hurt! lol
              PS. Given your meager interest in the elections, you would have to save about your preservation, it will worry.
              Good luck with that -difficult deed! hi
            4. RUSS
              RUSS 24 December 2017 21: 06 New
              +2
              Quote: Seeker
              Here is the poet, you, the Monarchist. Teterin and the like, in the case of a mess, we “slap” without regret.

              You would have figured out in your own Ukraine, a hero!
          2. avt
            avt 24 December 2017 17: 10 New
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich
            Hitlerites served Soviet citizens at times more. Everywhere, not only in Crimea. And very successful.

            And here comes the nobleman from the noble assembly of the Proletarian district. bully I immediately began to drive a training manual from Igor Chubais. So dear one does not need an artistic whistle. I’m not talking about Soviet citizens who remained in the occupied territory and even about prisoners of war who were recruited to work - hevi. None of them fought with weapons in their hands, but Igor Chubais wrote them down to a heap of everyone, so that at least the figure would be 8000000 I’m talking about the real lackeys who were punitive and the white emigrants played an important role, especially in the Crimea. Yes, so that when the cannonade near Belgrade began, the Serbs told them in surprise, “So what are you afraid of? This is Russian coming. " The cat knew whose fat she ate.
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 24 December 2017 18: 06 New
              10
              Quote: avt
              I’m not talking about Soviet citizens who remained in the occupied territory and even about prisoners of war who are recruited to work - heavis. NONE of them fought with weapons in their hands

              Oh really? Tell this to the Soviet citizen Bronislaw Kaminsky, who formed the "RON brigade" from Soviet citizens, who fought against the Red Army and participated in punitive operations.
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 26 December 2017 04: 29 New
                +3
                Tell this to the Soviet citizen Bronislaw Kaminsky, who formed the "RON brigade" from Soviet citizens, who fought against the Red Army and participated in punitive operations.
                So for that dog, dog death.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 24 December 2017 20: 34 New
              +6
              Quote: avt
              she began to drive a training manual from Igor Chubais. So dear one does not need an artistic whistle. I’m not talking about Soviet citizens who remained in the occupied territory and even about prisoners of war who are recruited to work - heavis. NONE of them fought with weapons in their hands

              None of the citizens owls with WEAPON fought for the Nazis ?! belay fool lol
              Comrade, where did you come from? VLASOVTSY, led by Soviet generals and commissars, are you unfamiliar? And the cops from the owls of citizens, too? Georgian and other formations, too? And the vassurs who burned Khatyn?
              So learn! am
              1. avt
                avt 25 December 2017 10: 15 New
                +3
                Quote: Olgovich
                So learn!

                By all means and constantly. Moreover, not according to Chubais’s campaigns, but, for example, according to Müller Hildebrant, and unlike

                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                Quote: avt
                I’m not talking about Soviet citizens who remained in the occupied territory and even about prisoners of war who are recruited to work - heavis. NONE of them fought with weapons in their hands

                Oh really? Tell this to the Soviet citizen Bronislaw Kaminsky, who formed the "RON brigade" from Soviet citizens, who fought against the Red Army and participated in punitive operations.
                I read EVERYTHING, and not just in large print and not later in ecstasy
                Quote: Olgovich
                None of the citizens owls with WEAPON fought for the Nazis ?!

                revealing in front of the monitor on the chair I do not jump. Once again for the especially gifted ,, nobles ”from the noble assembly of the Proletarian district -
                Quote: avt
                Quote: Olgovich
                Hitlerites served Soviet citizens at times more. Everywhere, not only in Crimea. And very successful.
                I’m not talking about Soviet citizens who remained in the occupied territory and even about prisoners of war who were recruited to work - hevi. None of them fought with weapons in their hands, but Igor Chubais wrote them down to a heap of everyone, so that at least the figure would be 8000000 I’m talking about the real lackeys who were punitive and the white emigrants played an important role, especially in the Crimea. Yes, so that when the cannonade near Belgrade began, the Serbs told them in surprise, “So what are you afraid of? This is Russian coming. " The cat knew whose fat she ate.
                That is, Az is a sinner of those who remained in the occupied territory and those who were hunched off from captives like Akh Chubais during economic work and you are not recording them in traitors at once. That, in fact, both Smersh and the prosecutor’s office with the NKVD did after the verification, and I clearly share the scum with weapons in the hands of those who fought against the USSR. So take a sedative and do not rage in vain.
        2. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 24 December 2017 17: 50 New
          10
          Imagine. The white military courts even bothered with a real trial. Unlike. http://dv-sokolov.livejournal.com/239048.html
          Quote: avt
          looking at the lost Civil, up to the work of punishers in the Patriotic War, when on a rotational basis they traveled to the East.

          But the Reds didn’t even have to bother with this; they committed violence against the people continuously until the beginning of Brezhnev’s reign.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 26 December 2017 04: 26 New
            +1
            But the Reds didn’t even have to bother with this; they committed violence against the people continuously until the beginning of Brezhnev’s reign.

            I, in order not to jinx it, do not ailment,
            But I notice after myself -
            It’s wrong with my heart.
            Like a hungry child
            It is waiting for something, weeping,
            Not sleeping. Perhaps awaiting
            Bad? Do not expect good
            In vain will we wait:
            Pushed down by Nicholas,
            Fell asleep. To wake up
            Poor thing, you need to hurry up
            With the whole world to temper the butt
            Yes sharpen the ax sharper
            And then already wake up.
            And then, perhaps, it will happen -
            Sleep before the Last Judgment!
            Pans will help to sleep soundly:
            All will build temples
            And his king drunk
            Yes, Byzantium glorify,
            And we will not wait for another. Shevchenko Taras Grigorievich
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 26 December 2017 10: 47 New
              +7
              Taras Grigorievich Shevchenko (Ukrainian. Taras Grigorovich Shevchenko; February 25 (March 9), 1814, Morintsi village, Zvenigorod district of the Kiev province, Russian Empire (now Cherkasy region, Ukraine) - February 26 (March 10) 1861, St. Petersburg, Russian Empire ) - Ukrainian poet. Also known as an artist, prose writer, ethnographer and revolutionary democrat.
              Link to the revolutionary poet ... Do you seriously believe that he was objective?
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 26 December 2017 11: 17 New
                0
                No, he lived in the 21 century and saw nothing, saw nothing. Just like you.
      2. Ragoz
        Ragoz 25 December 2017 01: 16 New
        +5
        Lieutenant ....
        When and where are they published?
        1. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 26 December 2017 10: 54 New
          +7
          You can find:
          https://www.labirint.ru/books/411362/
          https://www.labirint.ru/books/406480/
      3. avva2012
        avva2012 26 December 2017 04: 52 New
        +3
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin Yes, many people write about the “horrors of the white counterintelligence”, they just do not say that the arrests were usually followed by the courts. Which justified many arrested.

        "By evening, the city was liberated - all the surviving quarrers fled, hiding around the city. Searches, arrests and executions began, they took all the suspects, adhering to the rule: it was better to destroy ten innocents than to release one guilty; at the same time, the publisher of the Menshevik newspaper Volna was drowned ", Writing all the time against volunteers. This story continued for three days and at the same time the last exits of the Adzhimushkay quarry exploded. During this time, up to 3000 people, mostly Jews, were destroyed in Kerch. English "Ane, who were in Kerch, ran around the city with terribly happy faces all day, photographing the hanged and executed by photographic apparatus." Shidlovsky S. N. "Notes of the White Officer"
        "Pokrovsky moved the plastons of both brigades to Nevinnomysskaya and took possession of it. From there I made a sudden raid on Temnoleskaya and took it. At the same time, the Red squadron was captured and some trophies were taken. General Pokrovsky who arrived soon ordered to hang all the prisoners and even defectors. I have there was a collision with him about this, but he only laughed off and laughed in response to my complaints.One time, when we had breakfast with him, he suddenly opened the door to the courtyard, where several hanged men were hanging on the ropes.
        “This is for improving appetite,” he said. Pokrovsky did not skimp on witticisms like: "nature loves man," "the sight of the hanged man revives the landscape," etc. This inhumanity of his, especially applied judiciously, was disgusting to me. His favorite, a bastard and a scoundrel, esaul Razderishin, tried to please the executioner as a bloodthirsty instinct for his boss and corrupted the Cossacks, who were accustomed in the end to not put a penny on human life. This did not go unnoticed and was subsequently one of the reasons for the failure of the White movement. " Shkuro A.G. "Notes of the White Partisan."
        ““ Those who want reprisals! ”He shouts.“ What is it? ” - I think. - Shooting? Really? "Yes, I understood: the shooting, these 50-60 people, with their heads and arms bowed. I looked at my officers." Suddenly no one will go? "Flashed through me. No, they leave the ranks. Some people are embarrassed, smiling , some with fierce faces. About fifteen people came out. They went to a bunch of strangers and click the shutters. A minute passed. Flew by: or! .. Dry crack of shots, screams, groans ... People fell on each other, and about ten steps, snuggling tightly into the rifles and spreading their legs, they shot at them, hastily flicking the bolts. Everyone fell. moans. Shots faded. Some of the shooters retreated. Some finished off with their bayonets and butts still alive. Here she is, the civil war; the fact that we were walking the chain across the field, cheerful and joyful to something, is not a "war" ... Here it is , a genuine civil war ... A personnel captain is beside me, his face is like a battered one. "Well, if we do, everyone will fall upon us," he mutters quietly. Gul R. B. "Ice campaign." Teterin, read the memoirs of your ideological supporters, not nonsense on the Internet.
        1. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 26 December 2017 11: 31 New
          +7
          Avva, when will you stop tearing quotes out of context? In the memoirs of Shidlovsky, it is actually said that the Reds took refuge in the quarries and attacked the townspeople. And other sources indicate that the red bandits exhausted the city with their terror. The inhabitants of Kerch breathed a sigh of relief when the whites blew up the entrances to the quarry.
          The same with Pokrovsky. The man, of course, was a sadist, but whites like him, having learned about their deeds, were removed from command, or even under the tribunal. But the red ones of such crazy maniacs as Saenko or Zemlyachka, on the contrary, were awarded.
          Here are the memories of Russian children who survived the atrocities of the Reds:

          “I soon saw people being cut.” Dad told me: "Come, Mark, you're too small to see it."

          - Life somehow started swaying right away, and everything rolled down an inclined plane ... - Soon Russian blood began to pour, my loved ones died without a moan, without curses and complaints.

          - I survived only one of the whole family. (Page 11)

          “I recognized the revolution.” A bomb was thrown into a small house. I ran there. Everything crumbled. In the corner was a woman. Near her son with his legs torn off. I immediately realized what to do, because was fond of scoutism. I sent my little brother for a cab, bandaged the wounded as I could ... The worst thing in the revolution is the wounded. They were never fed. We, children, had to collect money for them.

          - Everything became free and there was nothing.

          - The commissar came, slapped himself on the boot with a whip, and said: "So that you will not be there in three days." So we did not have a home.

          - And we were kicked out of apartments seven times.

          - We had a lot of things, and they had to be carried ourselves. I was then very small and rejoiced when the Bolsheviks took everything away ...

          - We lived then in search of bread ...

          - I was then trading in the market. You stand, your feet are frozen, you feel like nauseous, but there is nothing to do.

          - When the second sister became ill with typhus, I went to sell newspapers. It was necessary to feed ...

          - Our father was shot, his brother was killed, his son-in-law shot himself.

          - Both my brothers died.

          - Mother, brother and sister were killed.

          - They killed the father, the mother was tortured by hunger ... They took the uncle away, then found in one of the pits, there were many of them. (Page 14)

          - Dad died of typhoid, and we began to eat rotten potatoes.

          - My uncle was killed as the namesake, they themselves said so. (Page 15)

          “I understood what revolution is when my dear dad was killed.”

          - There were seven of us, but I was left alone.

          - Dad was shot because he was a doctor.

          - Dad died of typhoid fever, they didn’t let him into the hospital, and our family began to disappear.

          - Father was shot because there were some troops close to the city.

          - Our grandfather and grandmother starved to death, and uncle went crazy.

          - For this year I lost my father and mother ...

          “My brother was taken to scare four times for execution, and he died of brain inflammation ...”

          “We ate nettles and some roots for six months.”

          - We had, as elsewhere, the imperative: “Discover!”, Predatory searches, illnesses, hunger, executions.

          - It was very hard. Mom from a beautiful, brilliant, always elegant, became very small and very kind. I loved her even more.

          - I saw at 11 years old and shootings, and hanging, drowning and even wheeling.

          “All of our realists have perished.” No one returned home. My brother was also killed ...

          “Over the years, I'm so used to death that now it does not make any impression on me.”

          - I went to prison, asked not to slaughter dad, but to slaughter me. They drove me away.

          - The doctor came, and, pointing to my mother, asked: "Not dead yet?" I lay there and listened to it every day, morning and evening.

          - I saw mountains of the wounded, dying for three days on ice.

          - My dad was put in the basement with water. It was impossible to sleep there. Everyone stood on their feet. At this time, my mother died, and soon my father died ...

          - His parents were hiding. Hunger forced to send his son for bread. He was recognized and arrested. He was tormented for a week: they cut his skin, knocked out his teeth, burned his eyelids with cigarettes, demanding to extradite his father. He endured everything without uttering a word. A month later, his incredibly disfigured corpse was found. All the children of our city went to watch ... (Page 16)

          “The check was placed in my parents' house.” When the Bolsheviks were driven out, I went around the unrecognizable rooms of my native home. I read the inscriptions of the executed, made in the last minutes. I found a jaw torn from someone, a warm stocking of an infant, a girl’s braid with a piece of meat. The worst thing was in our sheds. All of them were filled to the brim with torn corpses. Someone scratched the last words on the wall of the cellar: “Lord, forgive me ...” (pp. 16-17)

          “They killed us during the day, and they buried us under the cover of night.” Only she accepted everyone. Clean and dirty, white and red, too, were leaving, reassuring forever their young but early aged hearts. Their souls went to the throne of the Lord. He will judge everyone ... (Page 17)

          - They laughed at me that I grew up under machine-gun fire. In truth, they shot at us almost every day. (Page 21)

          - I wandered alone and saw a saddle put on a 80-year-old priest in one village and rode on it. Then his eyes were gouged out and finally killed.

          - Finally, I myself ended up in Check. We shot at night for 10 people. My brother and I knew that it was our turn soon, and decided to run away. We agreed on the whistle to scatter in different directions. I did not have to wait long. At night they brought and led. We are nothing, laughing, joking, turned off the road into the forest. We do not give a show. They ordered to stop. Someone whistled, and we all fled. One was wounded, and we heard how to finish. Nine escaped. I had to starve for a long time. I spent a month in the dark basement ...

          These are quotes from the works of children who studied at a Russian gymnasium in the Czech Republic in 1924. Read and remember how your "people's" Bolshevik power dealt with people. White did not even dream of such atrocities. In general, when you read the memories of what the Reds did, the memories of people who survived the Nazi occupation in 1941-44 immediately pop up in memory. The same senseless cruelty, bullying of women and children, the same meaningless reprisals. The Reds behaved like the most natural occupiers.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 26 December 2017 11: 45 New
            0
            These are quotes from the works of children who studied at the Russian gymnasium in the Czech Republic in 1924.

            This is the same propaganda pamphlet as the Melgunov nonsense. You still bring Solzhenitsyn's work, as a true story of the Gulag.
            ps These "quotes from the essay," first "published" on the site of Olgovich, so I read. I can say, as a doctor, most of it is adult fantasies. Some things, simply, physically cannot be. In addition, children's perception is different, it is not fixed on those details. Read, Alekseevich "The Last Witnesses. Solo for a children's voice," compare. Also on the Internet there is a more professional analysis of "the writings of children who studied at the Russian gymnasium in the Czech Republic in 1924 year."
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 26 December 2017 13: 20 New
              +7
              For you real stories real Russian people - "propaganda pamphlet"? Then what can you talk about if you are ready to deny the information of the victims at the hands of these criminals and mock their memory to justify the killers and rapists?
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 26 December 2017 13: 46 New
                +1
                "Kitty, more cynicism, people like it." Give at least one biography of the “victim”, as Alekseevich did in “... Solo for a children's voice”.
                1. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 26 December 2017 13: 59 New
                  +6
                  Do you need biographies? You are welcome:
                  https://www.livelib.ru/book/1000485380-deti-russk
                  oj-emigratsii-kniga-kotoruyu-mechtali-i-ne-smogli
                  -izdat-izgnanniki-bez-avtora
                  By first and last names, I suppose, you will be able to find biographies, "tearing of covers" Are you ours?
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 26 December 2017 14: 07 New
                    +2
                    Not Teterin, not yours. This, yours have been fattening on their estates fooling the peasant women and sending men under the whip. It’s yours who have committed atrocities into civilian life in order to regain everything that is written in the sentence above. This, yours returned to their homeland under the banners of the Third Reich. All this is yours. And mine were on the other side. Periodically taking forks and axes in hand.
                    ps You, Teterin, not Russian or something, why, do I need a book review? How, she proves what is written in her, right?
                    1. Lieutenant Teterin
                      Lieutenant Teterin 26 December 2017 14: 48 New
                      +6
                      It seems to you that there is nothing to answer, since you turned to emotional accusations. It's good. “Yours” is just the same, since you started talking about pitchforks and axes, and noted unbridled violence against the Russian people, doing monstrous massacres of innocent people under the red flag. Biographies of Saenko, Bela Kun, Zemlyachki are an example. And in the Great Patriotic War, the most cruel punishers were just policemen recruited from Soviet citizens — the very same “destitute advocates of pitchfork and ax” whom you sing.
                      As for the book review, it contains excerpts from the book with the names of gymnasium students, whose memories are included in it. Want to know more — buy a book, it is on sale in a paper version, there is no digital one.
                      Dixi.
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 26 December 2017 16: 14 New
                        +2
                        Nothing to say? The people who built the USSR spoke for me, including my ancestors who participated in this construction and once, who took in the hands of the pitchfork, when the gentlemen oversaturated the edge of patience with their bestiality.
                        You understand very well that civil wars are cruel, that animals were on both sides, but consciously denigrate, slander the country you were born into, which the communists built. They gave the opportunity to be born, because medicine was one of the best, they gave the opportunity to study and education in the USSR, it was one of the best. They gave everything, and you spoil them. And, I would understand, would you be a foreigner who does not understand anything. But, no, you even know what it means, that is, you were interested in culture and language, but still, you became an enemy. Enemy of the people. Are you one of those whose ancestors drank folk blood before or from converts to the Second World War? See, being an enemy of this people does not lead to good.
        2. Dalailama
          Dalailama 26 December 2017 12: 03 New
          0
          Odessa emergency destroyed how much per day?
  5. Monarchist
    Monarchist 24 December 2017 10: 22 New
    +8
    Quote: tasha
    However, one must understand that neither revolution is done in white gloves, nor counter-revolution.

    However, the revolutionaries won. They also shot the internal enemies of their power after victory. And what is the result? The state they built lasted 70 years and collapsed ... Ie killed in vain or killed a little ...... Which option would you choose?

    And which option do you choose?
    The fact that the state lasted 70 years and ..... F. E. 100% is not to blame. And neither I nor NeVI nor any of us are to blame for the party leadership being translated.
    Stalin in June 1937 said a meaningful phrase: ".... fortunately or unfortunately we have one party" and the leadership betrayed everyone: party comrades, people and the state
    1. tasha
      tasha 24 December 2017 11: 15 New
      +2
      And which option do you choose?

      A simple answer cannot be given to such a question right away. Right now, I am convinced that humanity must be driven with happiness with sticks ... wink
      1. verner1967
        verner1967 24 December 2017 20: 19 New
        +3
        Quote: tasha
        humanity must be driven to happiness with sticks ..

        specify why happiness? Happiness pushers? In the 17th they did it, the people only felt bad.
        1. tasha
          tasha 25 December 2017 05: 13 New
          +1
          I clarify. To human happiness. wink
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 25 December 2017 07: 27 New
            +3
            Quote: tasha
            To human happiness.

            and what human happiness was the collective farmer working from dawn to dawn for a wand in the barn book, and then thrown out as unnecessary without a pension? One can not tell about the human happiness of the party functionaries; they lived under communism from the revolution itself.
            1. tasha
              tasha 25 December 2017 08: 39 New
              0
              It seems that you write your own comments .. wink

              I'm talking about the current humanity and the current me. wink
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 25 December 2017 17: 43 New
                +1
                Quote: tasha
                I'm talking about the current humanity and the current me.

                and so I live happily now, thank God, communism I have rested for 15 years already)) But we are talking about those times, aren't we?
  6. Olgovich
    Olgovich 24 December 2017 10: 32 New
    +7
    The socialization of Western society in the twentieth century is a consequence of the influence of the USSR. It was this factor that determined the need for the development of the West towards a system of social security.
    Comrade Ratkovsky, tell me WHEN the peasants of Europe and the USA dreamed and asked to introduce collective farms with almost free work, tribute (Stalin), lack of pensions, money, and unprecedented hunger? Can you No. Then not.
    this violence had social roots. Russian society was not uniform before the revolution. The confrontation between peasants and "landowners", nonresident and Cossacks, workers and "breeders", the upper classes and the intelligentsia, and the national question, all this was, and then "exploded." And there was also the First World War, which "accustomed" to the routine of death and violence. There was a willingness to accept violence, and it was accepted by the parties in relation to their opponents

    Society is never united and never existed. But civil wars are rare. Only when they specifically do it and strive for it, revealing social contradictions, as the Bolsheviks did.
    Putting them and the whites on one board is stupid: the whites were in power BEFORE the October coup, and there was NO terror at all (but in vain), on the contrary, “Russia is the most free country in the world” (Lenin). And after the Civil War, nowhere did White engage in terror. And among the Bolsheviks, the terror in civilian continued for another decade. (they did not know how and were afraid differently).
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 24 December 2017 15: 40 New
      +7
      Quote: Olgovich
      Society is never united and never existed. But civil wars are rare. Only when they specifically do it and strive for it, revealing social contradictions, as the Bolsheviks did.


      The Bolsheviks did not pick anything anywhere. And here we need to talk not about social contradictions, but about class ones, and class hatred in the common people has been accumulating for centuries. Exploitation and terror were constant, they endured, but when it became unbearable, a Russian riot broke out, bloody and merciless. The hatred of the oppressors, accumulated by generations, spilled out, but the people could not take power into their own hands, because they did not know what to do next. Therefore, the Russian rebellion was also called meaningless and brutally suppressed.
      And only when capitalism developed, the proletariat appeared, the scientific theory of the liberation of labor — Marxism — was developed, only then did the socialist revolution become possible, but then the revolution is worth something when it can defend itself. For this purpose, the Cheka was created and it coped with its tasks.
      After World War II, for a number of objective and subjective reasons, the degeneration of Soviet society began, along with it the Communist Party degenerated, degenerates with party tickets gradually crept into the political leadership. The successor to the Cheka, the KGB, also did not escape this disease. Therefore, the KGB was not able to prevent the 1991 coup.
      PS To the above said about the KGB. We must also remember that without the proper political leadership, neither the army nor the special services can do anything.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 24 December 2017 18: 01 New
        +5
        "Therefore, the KGB and could not prevent the coup of 1991" ////

        Andropov prepared him with his "new KGB truths."
        They finally came to power in 2000.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 24 December 2017 19: 29 New
          +2
          Everyone gathered at his funeral, he was more than “his”, and they are all talking about “tagged”. Naive guys.
  7. Monarchist
    Monarchist 24 December 2017 11: 02 New
    +6
    The Cheka was needed: any state needs a special service. WHAT PEOPLE and most importantly HOW worked there, but: "this is a completely different story" (Kanevsky).
    I am far from being a fan of the Bolsheviks and would prefer that there wasn’t in our history: “February” and subsequent events, but there is one. F.E. or V.R. people themselves are decent, as far as it is possible in that system and in that era, but in the Cheka there were also: Yagoda, Lyushkov, Saenko or Odessa Cheka. After all, Yagoda or Lyushkov, Latsis (by the way now I thought: bright Latsis and writer Latsis are namesakes or not?). They all started under Dzerzhinsky. It is unlikely that F.E. or V.R. would approve of such "rings" that they later threw Yagoda or Lyushkov
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 24 December 2017 12: 37 New
      +5
      Decent - you mean "not thieves"?
      This quality is far from enough to be called decent.
      The SS was also in bulk "not thieves" (although there were natural thieves there at the top, and not at the top). But NOBODY is called decent of them.
      It is important for decency, when sadistic lawlessness is elevated to the law (Cheka), not to participate in this lawlessness.
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 24 December 2017 15: 33 New
        +7
        Quote: voyaka uh

        The SS was also in bulk "not thieves" (although there were natural thieves there at the top, and not at the top). But NOBODY is called decent of them.
        It is important for decency, when sadistic lawlessness is elevated to the law (Cheka), not to participate in this lawlessness.


        Come on! List the former members of the SS who held high positions in Germany and the GDR? And some worked for the USA and, oh my god, for ... The Nuremberg sentence recognized the organization of the SS as criminal. And people from the SS ... the Cheka no one ever recognized as a criminal organization. So do not draw silly parallels. As for lawlessness being elevated to law. Are you talking about the Mossad?
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 24 December 2017 16: 30 New
          +3
          "The Cheka no one ever recognized as a criminal organization" ////

          I know. This was a defect when Khrushchev made his report. Although today,
          beyond the statute of limitations of crimes, I would not raise this issue.
          Since it is - 100 years ago - a distant story.
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 24 December 2017 16: 34 New
            10
            And there is a more recent example - Guantanamo, people without trial, have been tortured for years. I look forward to hearing from you that the CIA is recognized as a criminal organization. As in advertising - sometimes it's better to chew than talk.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 24 December 2017 16: 37 New
              +4
              "Guantanamo, people without trial, have been tortured for years." ////

              Not for a long time. There was an investigation. The torture department is closed.
              Some CIA performers were punished. Prisoners were deported to the countries where they were taken from (and also to Russia, by the way).
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 24 December 2017 21: 44 New
                +9
                Not for a long time. There was an investigation. The torture department is closed.
                Some CIA performers were punished. Prisoners were deported to the countries where they were taken from (and also to Russia, by the way).

                Yes Yes. Spit that these are the lives and destinies of people - punished, patted on the ass. Aren't you ashamed to bring such arguments?
                And the detention in the cell for years without trial and investigation ??? "Where is the landing", where are the perpetrators? So you say that nobody is already sitting in Guantanomo and the prison is closed?
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 24 December 2017 22: 28 New
                  +1
                  Why was he so excited? Is Guantanamo somewhere in Israel?
                  1. Okolotochny
                    Okolotochny 25 December 2017 00: 20 New
                    +7
                    Uh, the Marshal ordered.
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 25 December 2017 00: 39 New
                      +2
                      it is still unknown who wags whom
          2. avt
            avt 24 December 2017 17: 20 New
            +4
            Quote: voyaka uh
            I know. It was a flaw

            bully Azochenway? It’s better to recount it quietly by the rag, as Zeev Zhabotinsky bequeathed - “You don’t have to play the violin at someone else’s wedding, especially when the guests have left.” And then, in our Internet age, a lot of things can be brought to light from the same ice ax on the head received -
            “We must turn Russia into a desert inhabited by white negroes, to whom we will give such tyranny as never dreamed of to the most terrible despots of the East. The only difference is that this tyranny will not be on the right, but on the left, not white, but red. In the literal sense of the word is red, for we will shed such streams of blood before which all human losses of capitalist wars will shudder and turn pale. The largest bankers from across the ocean will work closely with us. If we win the revolution, crush Russia, then on the funeral debris it will strengthen power and become such a force in front of which the whole world will kneel. We will show what real power is. Through terror, bloody baths, we will bring the Russian intelligentsia to a complete dullness, to idiocy, to an animal state ... In the meantime, our young men in leather jackets - the sons of watchmakers from Odessa and Orsha, Gomel and Vinnitsa - know how to hate everything Russian. Oh, how wonderful, how delightful they know how to hate! With what pleasure they physically destroy the Russian intelligentsia - officers, engineers, teachers, priests, generals, agronomists, academics, writers! ”
            wassat bully
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 24 December 2017 17: 57 New
              +3
              Like a child, right! Such rude fakes to publish. sad
              Trotsky was as cruel a man as Dzerzhinsky.
              I do not like them equally. But neither one nor the other
              attribute such delusional publications ...
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 24 December 2017 22: 26 New
                +1
                This is not fake, this is the Form with Bronstein completely crazy and lost fear.
              2. avt
                avt 24 December 2017 23: 21 New
                +1
                Quote: voyaka uh
                But neither one nor the other
                attribute such delusional publications ...

                bullyOh, wei! I beg you! And the law on antisimitism after the Civil War, when they let down the tower at the maximum, and even Yesenin with his Jewish wife nearly got to the tribunal, too
                Quote: voyaka uh
                delusional publications ...
                и
                Quote: voyaka uh
                rough fakes
                ?? And even BEFORE the revolutionary works of Lenin, about the pride of the Great Russians, are you still reluctant to read? And his statement about the need to touch the Jewish question like a bad tooth? I don’t remember Clara or Rosa from my recollections.
                Quote: voyaka uh
                Trotsky was as cruel a man as Dzerzhinsky.
                I do not like them equally.

                Do not make yourself an ostrich in a concrete floor. If there is a sedentary trait, real pogroms before the First World War, it is not surprising that the revolution sucked a lot of embittered
                Quote: avt
                sons of watchmakers from Odessa and Orsha, Gomel and Vinnitsa

                Which, within the framework of the class struggle and internationalism, were quite flaming with the Cheka, “righteous anger.” Especially if you bother to look at the personnel, it’s just that the proletarians with knowledge of languages ​​simply didn’t blame. By the way! The weighty Zionist I mentioned to myself is completely
                Quote: avt
                Zeev (Volodya) Jabotinsky
                he was against the revolution before it began from the word in general and against the mass participation of Jews in particular, and it seemed that he had arranged a unit on the side of the whites in the north. This is sweat-o-o-oh in songs - sho the soldiers of the revolution have clean hands, a warm heart, a cold head. And yet, at one enlightening lecture during the reign of the already sick Uncle Lyonya (blessed memory - he was not an evil man, but decisive in state affairs), one lecturer in front of the maneuvers confused and walked at random with the speed of sound - ,, hot hands, a cold heart and a clean head "
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 25 December 2017 00: 44 New
                  +2
                  How many pogroms were there and what were they? And as it turned out that Comrade Blank lived for example in Ulyanovsk?
                  The pogrom is when the Russians owed to the Shinkar carried the shinok and drank vodka without debt.
                  In Kishenev, by the way, there were few Russians. This is Moldova in general. There, yes, they like to drown Russians in someone’s blood.
                2. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 25 December 2017 00: 48 New
                  +1
                  But the Russians, by the way, were completely forbidden to settle in Poland, the Baltic states and Finland. And what came of it?
                  How did the royal ghoul repay the Russian ghoul Latsis and his red Latvian arrows for this?
          3. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 26 December 2017 06: 57 New
            +1
            But it would be nice for the Warrior, someone’s brother (this is a translation) to read today's comments here AVVA 2012, there are written about crimes against Jews. !!!!
      2. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 24 December 2017 16: 26 New
        10
        Well, what can you expect from Israel, throw a shit and compare with the SS. Warrior, how then to characterize Catherine 2, Potemkin, Suvorov? They were landowners, people were being trafficked. What times, such and people, is the first. Second, do not go where you’re not a squirrel - take an interest in documents, Dzerzhinsky’s works. He then developed instructions for conducting search activities, instructions for observing the law and interests of those searched. A year ago, Comrade Nyrobsky cited this. So what kind of demon are you shouting for Ukraine? Is the SBU detaining people without trial? Is your selectivity? Well, yes, you can compare the Cheka with the SS, but now there’s not enough mind to look back at. I agree with the writer, at that time the “pain” threshold for the population of the Republic of Ingushetia, and not only the Republic of Ingushetia, was very low. By the way, in Russia in the 6s it was also very low. Thanks to your western partners for this. And in the Civil War there are no right, all are guilty. White also does not need to exhibit fluffy.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 24 December 2017 16: 33 New
          +6
          "White also does not need to exhibit fluffy." ////

          And I never put them like that. In the White Guard "counterintelligence"
          atrocities and crimes were exactly the same as in the red Cheka.
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 24 December 2017 21: 47 New
            +9
            I speak for a comparison of the SS, and not for the white counterintelligence? Not ashamed? And your special services did not deal with the elimination ???
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 24 December 2017 22: 08 New
              +1
              Quote: Okolotochny
              And your special services did not deal with the elimination ???

              Russian President Vladimir Putin during a meeting on the development of transport infrastructure in the North-West of Russia compared the actions of several departments with the practice of the NKVD.
              “What can be methodological letters that are contrary to the law? This used to be the practice of the NKVD. Exactly, it was. Departmental instructions were placed above the law, ”- said the president.
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 25 December 2017 00: 26 New
                +9
                Again, the red hater wants to be noted? I explain to those who look like woodpeckers for the first time - there are no civil rights in the Civil Party, all parties to the conflict are to blame. For the "fluffy" white movement - to achieve their goals, they called to their homeland ... interventionists, took money and weapons from them to kill part of the citizens of their country. Nothing so huh?
                1. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 26 December 2017 11: 33 New
                  +7
                  The “interventionists" were the first to be called red. See the telegram of Trotsky to the Murmansk Council of Deputies.
              2. Ragoz
                Ragoz 25 December 2017 01: 26 New
                +2
                RUSS:
                Nonsense.
                1. RUSS
                  RUSS 25 December 2017 08: 13 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Ragoz
                  RUSS:
                  Nonsense.

                  Not convincing
  8. sergo1914
    sergo1914 24 December 2017 11: 56 New
    +4
    Quote: tasha
    Maybe so. I wanted to say, that the opposite side from the sergo1914 commentary ended, and the executions continued ...


    Where did it end then? Even with the Germans at 41, some came. They didn’t shoot.
  9. Curious
    Curious 24 December 2017 16: 20 New
    +7
    Comments on the article make it possible to draw one very optimistic conclusion for the current capitalists - nothing threatens their further prosperity. This is evidenced by the presence of a sufficiently numerous layer of olgoteterins or teterolgoviches, as it is convenient for anyone. As soon as this percentage decreases sharply, the "owners of life" should ponder. But so far nothing threatens them.
    1. Looking for
      Looking for 24 December 2017 16: 51 New
      +4
      This percentage itself will not go down - external support is too strong. But alternative methods of reducing their population are quite real and feasible.
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 24 December 2017 18: 08 New
        12
        My dear, yes your words — these are 282 and 279 articles of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation in its purest form. Truly, scratch the red — you will find a fanatical extremist killer.
        1. sergo1914
          sergo1914 24 December 2017 19: 32 New
          +4
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          My dear, yes your words — these are 282 and 279 articles of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation in its purest form. Truly, scratch the red — you will find a fanatical extremist killer.


          It's time to change the nickname for LawyerTeterin
      2. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 24 December 2017 20: 09 New
        +1
        And what kind of folk methods we seekers comrade advises us? Yes, there are many of them ---- repeated and patient explanations, comparisons by numbers and facts, at different times. Economic sanctions would be good. For example, --- the writer said that it’s wrong ---- his books are not bought! The artist is wrong ---- at his concerts no one. Well, in social networks by itself ... The Russian people respect the laws and comply with them !!!!
        1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Dalailama
      Dalailama 24 December 2017 20: 27 New
      +1
      Somehow you have the opposite. Wasn’t this Russian people who came from outside reduced? Without making any difference between classes, by the way.
  10. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 24 December 2017 17: 30 New
    +4
    Quote from the article.
    Ilya Ratkovsky: The reconciliation proclaimed by the authorities, as such, was not. Actually they have done little for this. Everything is crumpled somehow. I remembered in 2017 a whole series of open monuments. Monuments were opened to Stolypin, about the same number of monuments to Dzerzhinsky were openly and restored.
    About reconciliation. Today, much is said about the reconciliation of supporters of the red and white movements in the civil war of 1918-1922. in Russia, they say, these are things of bygone years. At the same time, France is cited as an example, where the descendants of the royalists and revolutionaries of the times of the Great French Revolution had allegedly long been reconciled.
    But, firstly, one cannot clearly compare the Great October Socialist Revolution with the Great French Revolution. Secondly, the reconciliation of the parties in France is not so ambiguous as many people imagine it.
    Although the French bourgeois revolution changed their formation, there was a transition from the monarchy to the republic, but it did not solve the main task — the liberation of labor. She did not solve the issue of property and did not eliminate the exploitation; the lower classes, as they were deprived of property, remained and were exploited by the ruling class, and remained.
    Reconciliation occurred only between the descendants of the monarchists and the Republicans, in whose hands private property remained. But the class struggle between the working class and the bourgeoisie has not gone away.
    We have a similar reconciliation occurred immediately after the Great October Socialist Revolution. Then there was a union of monarchists and liberal liberals, who jointly opposed the Soviet government, because both have lost their property.
    After perestroika, another reconciliation took place, the descendants of the white movement and the degenerate descendants of the communists, in whose hands today all the property of the country were in their hands, reconciled, they opposed socialism, against the supporters of the red movement under the common flag of the white movement.
    It’s impossible to reconcile them anyway, because reconciliation of private property owners and hired workers is impossible, their interests are directly opposite, therefore they are in a constant struggle, and this is called the class struggle.
    The class struggle cannot be abolished, it will continue until the classes themselves are destroyed, which is only possible after the establishment of workers' power by the socialization of private property and the gradual blurring of the distinction between city and country, between mental and physical labor.
  11. kalibr
    kalibr 24 December 2017 17: 47 New
    +2
    Quote: Alexander Green
    between mental and physical labor.

    Between man and woman!
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 24 December 2017 20: 46 New
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Alexander Green
      between mental and physical labor.

      Between man and woman!


      Yes, no, this has already been achieved under capitalism. Just what does it suddenly bother you? This is not the first time you have raised this question. Oh yes, I forgot: Whoever hurts, he says that.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 25 December 2017 21: 00 New
        0
        I do not raise anything, but why not laugh at a man from Ukraine who has lingered so long in the past. Of course, it’s sinful to laugh at the sick, but sometimes you want to, and the disease of the disease is different.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 25 December 2017 22: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: kalibr
          why not laugh at a person from Ukraine,

          But I’m telling you seriously: blurring the differences between a man and a woman has already been achieved, now, under capitalism, gay parades testify to this. You happen to be ... not ..., but something is suspicious, constantly reminding you of this.
  12. Whispering in the night
    Whispering in the night 24 December 2017 19: 28 New
    +2
    The Cheka can be thanked for only one thing - as many Communists as many Chekists, all the Tsarist secret police and the White Guard counterintelligence, taken together, did not destroy! Otherwise, the Cheka is an absolutely anti-people repressive suppression apparatus with arms to the elbow in innocent blood. Thank God that all this is already in the past and will never happen again on Russian soil!
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 24 December 2017 22: 20 New
      +4
      Quote: Whispering in the night
      Thank God that all this is already in the past and will never happen again on Russian soil!

      Statement by V.V. Putin
      Declaring the repressions of the 37th year, Vladimir Putin called them the cause of previous years of cruelty

      ... It is enough to recall the executions of hostages during the Civil War, the destruction of entire estates, clergy, dispossession of the peasantry, and the destruction of the Cossacks. Such tragedies have been repeated in the history of mankind more than once. And always this happened when attractive at first glance, but ideally empty ideals were put above the basic value - the value of human life, above human rights and freedoms. For our country, this is a special tragedy. Because the scale is colossal. After all, they were destroyed, exiled to camps, shot, tortured hundreds of thousands, millions of people. Moreover, these are, as a rule, people with their own opinions. These are people who were not afraid to express it. These are the most effective people. This is the color of the nation. And, of course, for many years we still feel this tragedy on ourselves. Much needs to be done to ensure that this is never forgotten.
      - Interview with the newspaper Trud
  13. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 24 December 2017 19: 34 New
    +3
    [quote = The same LEKHA] [quote] However, it must be understood that neither revolution is done in white gloves, nor counter-revolution. [/ quote]
    About the gloves ... what liberalism writes the same nonsense as about hundreds of billions personally repressed by STALIN ...
    [quote] “The specialty of the Kharkov Cheka, where Saenko acted, was, for example, scalping and removing gloves from the hands ... That city was famous for the name Saenka. They said about him that he said that of all the apples, he loves only the eye ... ". [/ Quote] belay
    http://maxpark.com/community/5325/content/6133623


    And not a revolution, and not in Russia, and not in France, and not in England, and not in the Netherlands ------ nowhere did white gloves wear in bourgeois revolutions !!!!!! And why should ours? ????
  14. Radikal
    Radikal 24 December 2017 20: 44 New
    +4
    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
    In other states, if you have forgotten, opponents of the government were attracted to the court behind real wrongful acts, and not for the origin or membership of a social group. Repression against people on a group basis, and not for a specific act, is a characteristic feature of terrorism, and not state power.

    But what about what you write with such pathos in Denikin’s or Kolchak’s counterintelligence? sad By the way, you are a lieutenant, which one do you like more? wassat
  15. Radikal
    Radikal 24 December 2017 20: 52 New
    +5
    Quote: tasha
    The civil war ended in the 1923 year .. Or not?

    It did not end - it only changed, and mimicked .... sad
  16. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
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        1. sergo1914
          sergo1914 24 December 2017 23: 33 New
          +9
          Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
          I am touched by a bunch of unfinished commies on a reputable site. Here, with foam at the mouth, they justify executions, executions, hunger and cannibalism in the USSR and repeat here that it was so necessary. What nonsense. Well, judging by their comments, they want to repeat this right now. Only this herd of sheep does not think that it may turn out to be not with a gun in his hand, but near the firing wall. And all of them here are simply inflamed sadistic nonsense. All of their tricks for managing the state I see have not changed for 100 years. They also all say about executions, fear, some kind of struggle with someone, and so on. God forbid repetition of this.



          Oh, how sick you are. Lie down, drink some water. Perhaps let go. And, this, stop the liberal press for the night looking to read and listen to the "echo of Moscow". Here people with an unprotected psyche sometimes get it wrong. Now they become captains, then lieutenants. And there, a government house with soft walls can loom on the horizon. With its Cheka-OGPU-NKVD.
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 24 December 2017 23: 45 New
            13
            Quote: sergo1914
            sergo1914

            I agree with you, people are clearly inadequate.
            Quote: sergo1914
            ... government house with soft walls ...

            But there are no such request
            The patient is simply tied to a bed. I saw it myself (s) laughing
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 25 December 2017 00: 16 New
              +4
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              I agree with you, people are clearly inadequate.

              And what did he not adequately say?
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 25 December 2017 00: 24 New
                10
                Quote: RUSS
                And what did he not adequately say?

                He mixed up a bit, IMHO. And addressless.
                As a result, many of those whom he did not have in mind (apparently), they will take all this at their own expense.
                I don’t like addressless swearing, you see ... word for word, something on the table ...
                Nubynafig negative
                1. RUSS
                  RUSS 25 December 2017 08: 22 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  He mixed up a bit, IMHO. And addressless.

                  Commented on emotions, so densely replaced, so here are many on emotions laughing
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 25 December 2017 11: 18 New
                    +2
                    Well, he didn’t pour water.
          2. German Titov
            German Titov 24 December 2017 23: 57 New
            +5
            My grandfather, a Chekist-border guard, treated such grenades "in a cache". I think he was right !!!
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 25 December 2017 01: 05 New
              +1
              and who was by nationality? Was it at home in the Baltic states?
          3. The comment was deleted.
            1. sergo1914
              sergo1914 25 December 2017 10: 10 New
              +2
              Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
              you from Russia still want to do this, so this will not happen !!! the whole country will simply cut out red like mad dogs if they again try to take power ... !!!


              That is, if the “red” candidate wins the election in March 2018, they just kill him? Ingenious. Yes, any scumbag from the Cheka of the period 1918-1922 in comparison with you is just a child. And what are you accusing the Chekists of if you support murders without trial and investigation of political opponents?
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 25 December 2017 11: 20 New
                +2
                Will not win. "Sue" was the head of the department of party ideology under Gorbachev. He knows his business. Even if he wins, he will again give his votes as then to Yeltsin.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 25 December 2017 21: 04 New
                    0
                    Yes, everything went according to plan.
        2. avt
          avt 24 December 2017 23: 36 New
          +7
          Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
          I am touched by a bunch of unfinished commies on a reputable site. Here, with foam at the mouth, they justify executions, executions, hunger and cannibalism in the USSR and repeat here that it was so necessary.

          ,, DB. "- Lavrov For starters - there wouldn’t be
          Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
          commie
          You wouldn’t graze here at all, but in the best case, well, if your ancestors hadn’t been burned by the Bandera Shukhevych from the schutzshaf, the policeman was battalion, you would have passed a pig of some kind of burgher and not even computer-literate, but only a dozen teams in German .
          Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
          God forbid repetition of this.

          Thanks to those described by Lavrov, “DB” and the groaning monarchists from the noble assembly of the Proletarsky district, it can be repeated with a bang. Well, from those recorded in
          Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
          a bunch of unfinished commies on a reputable site.
          A couple of imperishable quotes
          Well, Paramon, pray to your Parisian Virgin
          or shooters and Czestochowa
          Well Paramon! I, a sinful person, would purposely sign up with the Bolsheviks in order to ... shoot you. He would have shot him, and would instantly be discharged back.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 25 December 2017 03: 12 New
              +5
              Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
              this is the whole commie, or whoever you are there is red .. the answer is all pearls .. I’m debil and shoot me and don’t graze here .... well and like a cliche commie mention of fascism ... that's just a complete set ! Ё !!!



              Enough to fight in hysterics, otherwise they burst into the site, belched up a bunch of nasty things, calm down already, no one is shooting you yet, better tell me where you got all this der-ma? Your Old Man seems to be pretty good with the Reds. Where did you get this from? You are by chance not from the descendants of Belarusian schutzmanscapes?
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 25 December 2017 03: 15 New
                11
                Yes, it’s a zmagar, a campaign, a flight ...
                Zmagar - the collective image of the “svyadomag” of Biala Arus - the rightful brother of the Ukrainian zapadents. As a rule, he considers himself a national Ylite and treats the majority of Belarusians with contempt, from his own words, to stables and terpils with a “slave mentality”
                1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Dalailama
                Dalailama 25 December 2017 03: 30 New
                +3
                And what was the truth of what he wrote about? In the Cheka from 1918 to 1937 did not kill people? Before that, just on the street.
                1. sergo1914
                  sergo1914 25 December 2017 10: 11 New
                  +2
                  Quote: DalaiLama
                  And what was the truth of what he wrote about? In the Cheka from 1918 to 1937 did not kill people? Before that, just on the street.


                  And now they’re not killing people on the street? In Germany, are ladies ready for New Year's fun?
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 25 December 2017 11: 24 New
                    +2
                    You did not answer two questions and changed the subject. In order to be killed in Moscow during the revolution, it was enough just to start speaking Russian.
                    1. sergo1914
                      sergo1914 25 December 2017 11: 52 New
                      +2
                      Quote: DalaiLama
                      You did not answer two questions and changed the subject. In order to be killed in Moscow during the revolution, it was enough just to start speaking Russian.


                      OK
                      1) Everything is not true. I will explain.
                      2) I was always surprised by the logistics of the event "Shootings in the basements of the Lubyanka." Why lead someone into the basement? There to kill. Then drag the body up, load it into a car or cart and take it somewhere for burial. To wash the premises and start a new batch there. Blood, dirt, physical effort, time ... Why? All known cases of mass killings are a moat and a firing squad on the edge. Either the "bloody executioners from the Lubyanka" love physical labor (and not in the fresh air), or ... And in all sentimental stories there is no ending. Where did the corpses go? Taken out? Where are the papers on ordering vehicles and movers? Buried in the yard? Exhumation and recounting of the remains. Sources indicate the number of people shot in the Lubyanka at 10-15 thousand people in the period 1918 - 1954. Even this figure (well, not talking about millions), taking into account that the bulk of executions occurred during the revolution, raises questions. Not technologically advanced. Not supported by supporting documents. Where is the knot of this story not with "bloody performers" but with "bloody bureaucrats"?
                      Did I answer your questions?
                      Then explain the phrase about the execution for the Russian language.
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 25 December 2017 12: 06 New
                        +2
                        "Polygons" also had a place to be. Technologically, if a conveyor belt is used from the basement for export there or an industrial meat grinder, the acid and the work of those at hand like this too.
                        Among the revolutionaries, there were no Russians; fools without a gun came across.
                        You did not answer what was untrue in what he wrote.
                        Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
                        Here, with foam at the mouth, they justify executions, executions, hunger and cannibalism in the USSR and repeat here that it was so necessary. What nonsense. Well, judging by their comments, they want to repeat this right now. Only this herd of sheep does not think that it may turn out to be not with a gun in his hand, but near the firing wall. And all of them here are simply inflamed sadistic nonsense. All of their tricks for managing the state I see have not changed for 100 years. They also all say about executions, fear, some kind of struggle with someone, and so on. God forbid repetition of this.
                      2. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 25 December 2017 12: 29 New
                        +2
                        In the courtyard near the firing wall was only for their own. Such a death is easier. Of all the performers, only one preferred fresh air, but it worked mainly after 1937.
                        The bulk of the Russian peasants and Cossacks before that was killed near their places of residence simply along the ravines.
            2. avt
              avt 25 December 2017 10: 27 New
              +2
              Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
              Well, as a cliche commie mention of fascism ... that's just a complete set! E !!!

              Where is the cliche then!? Statement of fact ! Laid out by the same in the form of voluntary recognition. A cliche, well, so be it - I'll show you an example, this is
              Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
              this is the whole commie,

              When, like a straight intellectual by the definition of Gumilyov -
              “- Lev Nikolaevich, are you an intellectual?”

              - God save me! The present intelligentsia is such a spiritual sect.

              What is characteristic: they don’t know anything, they don’t know anything, but they judge everything

              and they absolutely do not accept dissent. ”
              or according to Berdyaev (for the aspects of monarchists we will make pleasantness bully )
              ... to the intelligentsia could belong people who are not engaged in intellectual work and generally not particularly intelligent. Our intelligentsia was an ideological, and not a professional and economic group, formed from different social classes, first primarily from the more cultural part of the nobility, later from the sons of priests and deacons, from petty officials, from the middle class and, after liberation, from peasants. This is the heterogeneous intelligentsia, united solely by ideas and, moreover, ideas of a social nature.
              What is it about, well ....., the indigo geniot who, in his opinion, has received knowledge, about the whole fact of birth and doesn’t want to know anything specifically? The same Teterin and Olgovich try to at least - they look for a texture their convictions, they work intellectually, and then some kind of krychka crawls out with a demand for treating himself as a big, adult person. bully
          2. Dalailama
            Dalailama 25 December 2017 03: 46 New
            +3
            The army of the USSR were in the Second World War all communists? Or communists raked a little earlier, even from Poland?
            Quote: avt
            would not be
            Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
            commie
            You wouldn’t graze here at all, but in the best case, well, if your ancestors hadn’t been burned by the Bandera Shukhevych from the schutzshaf, the policeman was battalion, you would have passed a pig of some kind of burgher and not even computer-literate, but only a dozen teams in German .

            the very Germans who were teething for the Revolution?
        3. Dalailama
          Dalailama 24 December 2017 23: 59 New
          +4
          They did not even think then. Reincarnated not otherwise. Blood of red color (dominates the design) is usually not attracted to rams, it’s different.
          Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
          God forbid repetition of this.

          so you feed them so little yourself right here.
          The frank repainted "exceptional" Trotskyists and Natsiks still rub here, but this is now a lot where, more precisely, almost everywhere.
        4. Dalailama
          Dalailama 25 December 2017 00: 34 New
          +3
          Quote: Bug_bagging
          God forbid repetition of this.

          Quote: DalaiLama
          so you feed them so little yourself right here.

          only praised you, and see the evil eye. how many “sadists” immediately ran away.
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 24 December 2017 23: 42 New
      +7
      Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
      Reds is a flock of rabid dogs, a bunch of cannibals that devoured my country - Russia. I know that now they are all burning in hell now. there and the road. And the Chekists are rabid dogs of revolution and just a bunch of sadists.

      For many, the children answered ....

      Naturally or not, but the only one of the children in whom Stalin did not expect a soul gave him some trouble during his lifetime, and after his death she fled abroad and finally abandoned her homeland, where she threatened to suffer moral punishment for the rest of her days sins of the father. The younger son of Stalin, the order-bearing member of the Great Patriotic War, ended up in prison, where he spent 8 years, from April 1953 to April 1961. The angry Soviet leadership put a lot of accusations on him, including frankly ridiculous ones, but Vasily admitted everything during interrogations without exception. At the end of his sentence, he was "exiled" to Kazan, but he did not live one year free: he died in March 62nd, just a couple of days before his 41st birthday. According to the official conclusion, from alcohol poisoning.
      1. Dalailama
        Dalailama 25 December 2017 00: 58 New
        +1
        One of the sons of Stalin in captivity also answered, or did you have to change him to Field Marshal?
        The only one of the daughters. Who says corruption fighters can't touch degeneration?
  17. German Titov
    German Titov 24 December 2017 23: 52 New
    +5
    Quote: sergo1914
    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
    My dear, yes your words — these are 282 and 279 articles of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation in its purest form. Truly, scratch the red — you will find a fanatical extremist killer.


    It's time to change the nickname for LawyerTeterin

    Come on! Among lawyers, such "yurilami" are called. Chekists with the past who do not like the Cheka-KGB-sing the "hosanna" of the CIA.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 25 December 2017 00: 33 New
        +9
        So go to the place where “the guys work for five balls”, maybe they will give you work - to smooth their shoelaces. Life is not asking? Go to church.
    2. Dalailama
      Dalailama 25 December 2017 01: 20 New
      +3
      And if you don’t like everyone? Or your favorite "who is not with us is against us"? Then do not blame later.
  18. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. Whispering in the night
    Whispering in the night 25 December 2017 08: 03 New
    +3
    Quote: belleu
    And after all, give the order and the order and everything will be repeated.

    This is really sad, now, as in the 37th, we went to the checkouts in the KGB offices - how many thousands of a priori innocent Russians would be capitalized in the first category, and how many in the second - and they would do it! sad
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 25 December 2017 12: 41 New
      +1
      In 1937, the perpetrators were already executed a priori more.
  21. Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 25 December 2017 12: 33 New
    +6
    Dalailama,
    Acids, conveyor belts (wear and tear are large, millions are shot) also need invoices.
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 25 December 2017 14: 09 New
      +1
      The acid was expropriated without consignment notes, and this entire conveyor, together with service specialists, was brought from ChiCago by the Trotsky steamer. The wear is small, with such tapes the snow is removed on the street, the only difference is that the cattle in the slaughterhouses of this city are massively slaughtered or slaughtered with air guns or electric current and not with guns. Slaughterhouse by the way gave the name of the city itself. Only this is never an English word (and not Latvian).
      It’s not there millions. Millions in Red Terror are more across ravines. There was also the Odessa extraordinary glorious by one "polar explorer" and "Countrywoman" and all this on a smaller scale in other cities.
      Only the Germans were utilitarian (gazenvageny), the meat grinder (it is also a bone crusher) was German.
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 25 December 2017 21: 54 New
        +5
        Brad wrote.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 25 December 2017 22: 11 New
          0
          Please specifically. It was rarely thrust alive.
  22. sergo1914
    sergo1914 25 December 2017 13: 47 New
    +2
    Quote: DalaiLama
    "Polygons" also had a place to be. Technologically, if a conveyor belt is used from the basement for export there or an industrial meat grinder, the acid and the work of those at hand like this too.
    Among the revolutionaries, there were no Russians; fools without a gun came across.
    You did not answer what was untrue in what he wrote.
    Quote: Bug_bagnyuk
    Here, with foam at the mouth, they justify executions, executions, hunger and cannibalism in the USSR and repeat here that it was so necessary. What nonsense. Well, judging by their comments, they want to repeat this right now. Only this herd of sheep does not think that it may turn out to be not with a gun in his hand, but near the firing wall. And all of them here are simply inflamed sadistic nonsense. All of their tricks for managing the state I see have not changed for 100 years. They also all say about executions, fear, some kind of struggle with someone, and so on. God forbid repetition of this.



    It’s expensive and non-technological, although your train of thought (an industrial meat grinder (!!!) in the basements of the Lubyanka) is interesting. Freshly.
    I answer the question what is wrong in the phrase "executions, executions, hunger and cannibalism in the USSR are justified" - everything is wrong. Modern Ukraine, by the way, demonstrates this. Executions, executions, famines, cannibalism - this is not the plan of the Bolsheviks. This (except for excesses and mistakes) is also a necessary measure. Read the documents of those years. For example, about the uprising in Western Georgia. Everything was done to minimize casualties. The result - 8 killed by the Bolsheviks and 30 - rebels. Well, Beria was thrust into the basement during the play. Nobody wanted and did not arrange mass terror. Everything was. The Bolsheviks are not angels. They built a country. From scratch. And they built it. We saw the result. Including the outcome of World War II. There were traitors, murderers, rapists, looters. These were also set against the wall. Are they innocent victims? How to separate one from the other? Parallel - in German concentration camps, in addition to the fighters against fascism, there was a specific crime, homosexuals, political. Are they all victims? Or was someone in the case there?
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 25 December 2017 14: 29 New
      +2
      As of ten years ago, all this was not dismantled. She was not alone.
      look just above your comment.
      for the rest, it makes no sense to explain to you. "To the ground we will destroy ..."
      and Russians, according to the plans of the Trotskyists, had no place in it.
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 25 December 2017 18: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: DalaiLama
        for the rest, it makes no sense to explain to you. "To the ground we will destroy ..."
        and Russians, according to the plans of the Trotskyists, had no place in it.

        Well, why again, this primitivism, have you never sung the hymn "International"? See how you twisted it. It sounds like this:
        All world of violence we destroy
        Before bases, and then
        We are ours, we are we’ll build a new world
        Who was nothing, that will become everything.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 25 December 2017 19: 54 New
          +2
          This is not primitivism, it is essentially. They sang in different ways, and did not lie only in one: "who was nothing."
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 25 December 2017 23: 05 New
            +2
            Quote: DalaiLama
            They sang in different ways, and did not lie only in one: "who was nothing."

            My maternal grandfather had seven children, under tsarism their lot was to be labored for fists. Therefore, after almost four years he fed the lice in the trenches of the imperialist war, he consciously supported the Bolsheviks, and conquered all civil power for Soviet power. All his children learned already in the Soviet school, became specialists, one daughter even participated in the work of the Soviet atomic project in Chelyabinsk. So do not la la.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 25 December 2017 23: 24 New
              0
              Would go to the Cossacks, what problems? Or a Pale of Settlement? Do you have a surname according to a "conscious" one?
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 25 December 2017 23: 56 New
                +1
                Quote: DalaiLama
                Would go to the Cossacks, what problems? Or a Pale of Settlement? Do you have a surname according to a "conscious" one?

                What for? I have everything in origin and nationality, everything that I wanted in my life has been achieved, nickname Green is no worse than Dalaylam.
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 26 December 2017 00: 58 New
                  0
                  Is that okay?
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 26 December 2017 01: 08 New
                    +1
                    Quote: DalaiLama
                    Is that okay?

                    Of the workers, Russian, without impurities.
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 26 December 2017 01: 16 New
                      0
                      Workers gouging on fists?
                      Let him explain to you now. Your ancestor during the Patriotic War of 1914, which lasted not four years but less, violated the oath, not only that, instead of a bayonet in the ground, he consciously (not forcibly, if true) joined the Reds (those that were not Green and not White ) To the terrorists, and went to war with the almost unarmed Russian people (the population if you want), together with them asserting their power over him. After that, many Russian children did not end up in school, college, or gymnasium, starving to death from food surpluses or during storytelling and other ethnic cleansings of Trotsky, who had traveled on an armored train, sometimes even with the use of chemical weapons and artillery in areas when from small-town bullets, Latvian bayonets, mountain drafts , the knives of the Chinese Hunhuz, etc. international was of little use. Decimation of the population to pacify the territory, it was at least even if there was no resistance, and choosing the best were killed. In Yaroslavl, Tambov and many other places, almost everyone was killed. The remaining sometimes had the choice not to be shot in a ravine, but to be removed to the labor army, or (not to labore for money) and to engage in slave involuntary labor on collective farms for workdays, and then try to somehow survive and feed the children on pasture. When someone in the village who was not covered by her tried to show discontent, they literally shot him or literally “look impudent” for it. And of course it was like not abusing the feelings of believers and not building a club or completely demolishing temples, and even building a public toilet on this site. All this continued until 1937, until the last open Trotskyists were cleaned up. Even under Brezhnev, only 1% of Russians and Belarusians had higher education, in Ukraine a little more because they invested in the development of the Western outskirts.
                      And all this was in order not to leave the settler with the lift, and bask in the sanatorium?
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 26 December 2017 03: 18 New
                        +2
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        Workers gouging on fists?
                        Let him explain to you now. Your ancestor during the Patriotic War of 1914, which lasted not four years but less, violated the oath, not only that, instead of a bayonet in the ground, he consciously (not forcibly, if true) joined the Reds (those that were not Green and not White ) To the terrorists, and went to war with the almost unarmed Russian people (the population if you want),

                        Eka burst through you, spewed so much de-r-ma, that ten cesspool workers will not rake ...
                        I told you - go to sleep ...
                        Oh well, here is your first point: "Workers gouging on fists?"
                        Well, my friend, you completely forgot how to understand anything in Germany, you ask such stupid questions. At the time when I was born, my parents were both workers, yes, my mother is from peasants, but by this moment she has already more than 20 years of working experience, her father is a hereditary worker.
                        Now about my grandfather. There is nothing to explain.
                        First of all, you need to read your opponent more carefully so as not to get into trouble, I wrote that my grandfather almost 4 years, not all 4 (taken in August 1914, demobilized in January 1918) fed lice in the trenches ..
                        Secondly, the peasants who went to the Red Army along with him, the peasants, the backbone of the regiment were Ivan weavers, completely different from ghouls and terrorists, and they went to war with the Kolchak army, which can not be attributed to the unarmed population .
                        Trotsky also saw, at the rally, nothing, he spoke beautifully, did not clean anyone, conferred with the command and left, did not even shoot anyone. They themselves didn’t shoot anyone, it was strictly, the commissar said that the white peasants served only by force, who were captured were enrolled in the unit, officers were also offered to serve, who did not agree, they were sent to a special camp.
                        Well, the rest ... In my opinion, there is no point in commenting: the standard set of Goebbels propaganda, which has been refuted hundreds of times here on the forum.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                    2. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 26 December 2017 03: 37 New
                      0
                      Broke through you. This is not my thesis; you thought that I would not notice.
                      And then what is Stalin SO for? He rarely shot his own, only when they could not even cope with chemistry. I don’t know how on the forum and the articles were and failed to refute. With Yaroslavl historical photographs.
                      Christ. The rescuer was blown up by Kaganovich. And with Goebbels, your beloved Bronstein just did not kiss sucker.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 27 December 2017 01: 30 New
                        +1
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        Broke through you. This is not my thesis; you thought that I would not notice.
                        And then what is Stalin SO for? He rarely shot his own, only when they could not even cope with chemistry. I don’t know how on the forum and the articles were and failed to refute. With Yaroslavl historical photographs.
                        Christ. The rescuer was blown up by Kaganovich. And with Goebbels, your beloved Bronstein just did not kiss sucker.

                        Here you also have a mad leap of thoughts: both Yaroslavl, and Christ the Savior, and Christ. , and Goebbels with Bronstein, and it is not clear about Stalin, who is he and for what? You, apparently, in German there completely forgotten the Russian language and use the Google translator from German to Russian.
                    3. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 27 December 2017 02: 13 New
                      0
                      All this was not? You had crazy affairs (at that time).
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 27 December 2017 10: 32 New
                        +1
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        All this was not? You had crazy affairs (at that time).

                        No, dear, things were Great, and no matter how you spit on them, they still remain Great. .
                    4. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 27 December 2017 23: 44 New
                      0
                      Great frenzied. In Kampuchea were small. And no matter how you otmazyvatsya such great in 1937 put to the wall, later put in a madhouse.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 28 December 2017 01: 02 New
                        +1
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        Great frenzied. In Kampuchea were small. And no matter how you otmazyvatsya such great in 1937 put to the wall, later put in a madhouse.

                        Firstly, I already advised you to go to bed on time. I wrote to you that at that time "great things were", and you write "great mad", "In Kampuchea small," then suddenly "so great" set to the wall. You are losing a logical thread.
                        Secondly, about Kampuchea. You would not hurt to study the experience of Kampuchea. They will not be given an assessment of those events, I just want to draw your attention, and indeed many of your associates, why this happened there. There is nothing surprising in what happened; this is an ordinary reaction of the poorest peasantry to a fattening, morally decaying urban society, which is mired in shamelessness and lawlessness.
                    5. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 28 December 2017 05: 56 New
                      0
                      Remarkably, we are openly legalizing the Kampuchean genocide.
                      In the first paragraph he “did not understand”, in the second “he did not hold out."
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 28 December 2017 17: 50 New
                        0
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        Remarkably, we are openly legalizing the Kampuchean genocide.

                        I just wanted to draw your attention to what can happen if you do not moderate your greed and become mired in excesses. And this is not only in Kampuchea. A recent example, Ukraine, on the Maidan there was a people not only eating cookies from Nuland, there were ordinary people who despaired of achieving a good life, and therefore participated in the destruction of the “royal chorus” of escaped oligarchs and officials.
                    6. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 28 December 2017 18: 56 New
                      0
                      Then why in Russia the revolution was proletarian and not peasant as in Kampuchea? Is it really worse in the city?
                      You simply overdid it with your Trotskyist whistle, now with a deviation from Maoism to Bandera. With the oligarchs and their officials in nenko, everything just got better.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 28 December 2017 22: 34 New
                        0
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        Then why in Russia the revolution was proletarian and not peasant as in Kampuchea? Is it really worse in the city?

                        The revolution in Russia was proletarian, because there was a proletariat armed with Marxism, there was no proletariat in Kampuchea, so there was a peasant revolution, its leaders tried to build peasant socialism, they built it in that vision, as they understood it, Marxism was not there it smelled.
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        Then why in Russia the revolution was proletarian and not peasant as in Kampuchea? Is it really worse in the city?
                        You simply overdid it with your Trotskyist whistle, now with a deviation from Maoism to Bandera. With the oligarchs and their officials in nenko, everything just got better.

                        Oooh! Do you know what the "Trotskyist whistle" is? Enlighten please. And on the account of the fact that everything in Ukraine with the oligarchs and officials has only become better, you are mistaken, come and see. The oligarchs really got better and there were more of them, but you'd better have paid attention to how many ordinary people they stole, and how much external debt was put on each inhabitant to add up their billions.
                    7. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 29 December 2017 01: 11 New
                      0
                      And why was the peasantry not infected with Marxism in agrarian Russia, did it also exist, and the revolution was only proletarian? Maoism is Marxism, it smelled the same. The peasantry in Kampuchea was destroyed along with all the other estates. The Khmer Rouge were called Khmer, not Cambodian.
                      You don't seem to. Another Trotskyist whistle. Just the "oligarchs" has diminished from the fact that they fled, and now they have become more and better. Why didn’t the runaway oligarchs mansions which people didn’t have enough cookies destroy why?
            2. avva2012
              avva2012 26 December 2017 06: 17 New
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Green All his children learned already in the Soviet school, became specialists, one daughter even participated in the work of the Soviet atomic project in Chelyabinsk.

              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 26 December 2017 12: 06 New
                0
                Primer already quote.
                Slavery is the work of the master for food. The collective farms worked for workdays and sometimes an armful of rotten straw in the form of a bonus.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 26 December 2017 12: 17 New
                  +1
                  And after they sold an armful of rotten straw, they bought planes and tanks for the Red Army.
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 26 December 2017 15: 11 New
                    0
                    To whom? She didn’t even eat cows. It was bought after 1937 and not before.
    2. Dalailama
      Dalailama 25 December 2017 14: 49 New
      +1
      I somehow missed how long the equipment from slaughterhouses (where the premises are washed), meat processing plants, fertilizer factories and just storage rooms (in smaller cities) became non-technological?
      There were still many simply enthusiasts in their field, represented by the poet Blok and his ilk, and in a public toilet at the outskirts of gatsrol, they simply rinsed themselves behind them with a hose. Until all of them, JV Stalin did not come.
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 25 December 2017 16: 06 New
        +2
        Quote: DalaiLama
        I somehow missed how long the equipment from slaughterhouses (where the premises are washed), meat processing plants, fertilizer factories and just storage rooms (in smaller cities) became non-technological?
        There were still many simply enthusiasts in their field, represented by the poet Blok and his ilk, and in a public toilet at the outskirts of gatsrol, they simply rinsed themselves behind them with a hose. Until all of them, JV Stalin did not come.


        Slaughterhouses give goods (which then money \ bar ... well, Marx ... Karl Marx. Have you heard?). The rest - "well, they still know" - the Bolsheviks loved to shoot personally, so that with blood and other goodies, Beria raped schoolgirls, Zhdanov ate all the products in Leningrad ... Boring.
        I will draw another parallel. We all know that in one small but proud country they drink the blood of Christian babies. On an industrial scale. The fact that we do not know the logistics of delivering babies to collection points and ways of disposing of production waste is nonsense. They drink it anyway, pogans. They’re not caught by the hand, but who cares? DRINK !!! Ask anyone.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 25 December 2017 18: 51 New
          0
          Therefore, the process is established on them. It was rationally taken as a basis.
          Now organs are transplanted more. You can also ask gypsies about logistics.
    3. kalibr
      kalibr 25 December 2017 21: 17 New
      0
      "They built the country. From scratch. And they built. We saw the result." "They fought, they fought, but only they themselves crashed!" What year to name?
  23. Radikal
    Radikal 25 December 2017 14: 13 New
    +3
    Quote: DalaiLama
    And you are not Trotsky who dressed up as Stalin?

    Great-grandson of Sudoplatov! bully Is it good? wassat
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 25 December 2017 14: 27 New
      0
      Quite. But you still need to know your story.
  24. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 25 December 2017 14: 53 New
    +2
    [quote = DalaiLama] "Polygons "also had a place to be. Technologically, if a conveyor belt is used from the basement for export there or an industrial meat grinder, acid and the work of those at hand like this too. [/ Quote]
    DalaiLama Today, 12:29 ↑ New
    In the courtyard near the firing wall was only for their own. Such a death is easier. Of all the performers, only one preferred fresh air, but it worked mainly after 1937. [/ Quote]
    Dear, in confirmation of your words.
    During perestroika, a surgeon, 51 years old, told me during such a case that in Odessa enemies of the people were killed in 1937, and it was very convincing.
    "The Chekists installed a stone crusher near the entrance to the Central Park of Culture and Rest named after TG Shevchenko and threw people there, and to drown out their screams, they turned on loud music"
    I read the second case in the newspaper: "At the Kulikovo Field, at that time there was a swamp, the KGB killed a man, and for three days they did not allow him to clean his body, then they came and fed him to the pigs"
    Your stories from the same opera.
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 25 December 2017 16: 12 New
      0
      Something does not converge because the stone crusher is already working so loud and there wouldn’t be any pigs? You are told here. Nobody asked you to confirm anything. In 1937, the enemies of the people were killed. Enemies of the people killed the people before him.
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 25 December 2017 18: 23 New
        +2
        Quote: DalaiLama
        Something does not converge because the stone crusher is already working so loud and there wouldn’t be any pigs? You are told here.

        Of course it doesn’t agree, all these stories that I brought up were invented by the enemies of socialism, but which, despite their primitivism, did their dirty work, sowed in the minds of gullible people that socialism was the massacre of innocents
        You see that the stories are moronic, that a normal person will not believe in them, but instead of exposing this, you yourself come up with the same ones: "In order to be killed in Moscow during the revolution, it was enough just to start speaking Russian "
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 25 December 2017 18: 54 New
          +3
          Now add that there was a sanatorium and treated people.
          "Google the national composition of the revolutionaries."
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 25 December 2017 23: 14 New
            +2
            Quote: DalaiLama
            Now add that there was a sanatorium and treated people.

            Yes, imagine in the 30's. there were sanatoriums and rest homes for workers, my mother, a worker at the printing house, repeatedly received permits there. They gave vouchers to the sanatorium for two weeks, to rest houses - for the weekend.
            And about the nationality of the revolutionaries you have a fad, you feel the negative influence of the flag near your nickname.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 25 December 2017 23: 21 New
              0
              At the expense of the nationality of the revolutionaries - there was not a single Russian.
              They added to the sanatorium’s account and switched to holiday homes.
              And what is your worse now?
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 26 December 2017 00: 09 New
                +2
                Quote: DalaiLama
                At the expense of the nationality of the revolutionaries - there was not a single Russian.
                They added to the sanatorium’s account and switched to holiday homes.
                And what is your worse now?

                At the expense of nationalities, well, why so frankly distort the truth, it does not paint you. And at the expense of sanatoriums and rest homes - the true truth, I have preserved mother photographs of those years on vacation. You were completely Germanized there in Germany, you have ideas about Russians at the level of an ordinary soldier of the Wehrmacht, who studied Soviet Russia according to the Goebbels training manual.
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 26 December 2017 00: 56 New
                  0
                  You are trying to show the truth in a mirror way.
                  Well it is, "treated people."
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 26 December 2017 01: 04 New
                    +2
                    Quote: DalaiLama
                    You are trying to show the truth and mirror

                    In what?
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 26 December 2017 01: 07 New
                      0
                      In buildings on the Lubyanka and the like, what else ...
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 26 December 2017 01: 13 New
                        +4
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        In buildings on the Lubyanka and the like, what else ...

                        Go to bed, you already have brooms on this ground, I haven’t said a word about Lubyanka.
                    2. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 26 December 2017 02: 45 New
                      +1
                      Wake up and finish singing your sweet songs, you and your sanatoriums got into the topic where it was written about them.
                      Most of the revolutionaries were Russians?
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 26 December 2017 06: 50 New
                        +3
                        Most of the revolutionaries were Russians?

                      2. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 26 December 2017 12: 08 New
                        0
                        Is that all they found? Not through Google surname?
                      3. avva2012
                        avva2012 26 December 2017 12: 19 New
                        +1
                        Not through Google surname
                        Can the sizes of skulls also lead? Search and find.
                      4. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 26 December 2017 15: 15 New
                        0
                        Well, it’s not about the fact that 43,5% of Russians were revolutionaries.
                        No, a surname should be enough, although you can see that you already know what it is.
  25. tasha
    tasha 25 December 2017 19: 05 New
    +1
    About hundreds of billions of repressed, raped schoolgirls and industrial meat grinders - bringing to absurdity is called. And the substitution of concepts ...

    The very name of the Cheka tells a lot. Extraordinary - because to work according to the laws of wartime ... If the enemy is approaching the city, and someone is robbing shops or holding a rifle under the bed to hit the defenders in the back, then there is no time for proceedings. Got caught - against the wall ... The war was over, the Bolsheviks won, the need for special powers disappeared ... What happened afterwards is a separate issue. I’ll just notice that people remained the same. They drank blood ...

    It is not clear to me only why the 100 anniversary of the creation of the Cheka is considered a holiday. The date is not at all festive .. And in the place of the current FSB officers it’s not very nice to keep the pedigree from the Extraordinary Commission .. It’s better from the Secret Affairs Order. And the age is bigger and the meaning is different ...
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 25 December 2017 19: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: tasha
      it’s not very nice to have a pedigree from the Extraordinary Commission

      Well, they like it that way.
      For some reason, in 1945, none of the rifles were seized from the Germans, much less put against the wall for this.
      Yes drunk completely.
      1. tasha
        tasha 25 December 2017 20: 10 New
        +1
        But the deserters were hung up. However, the comparison with Germany 1945 year is completely wrong. Cheka acted in a civil war. So it was a temptation to write down as an enemy by belonging to any class. It is as if all the bakers were hung up, because the bakers like to bake rye bread and can wait for the arrival of Soviet troops.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 25 December 2017 20: 38 New
          +1
          Very true. Until 1937, the entire non-Russian Cheka was at war with non-Russian people. Until then, one Orthodox Christian, too, put an end to this. More precisely two.
          And why are you again clinging to these meat grinders? Guillotines were still 150 years old. Progress does not stand still, this story repeats itself.
          1. tasha
            tasha 26 December 2017 05: 19 New
            +3
            The whole non-Russian Cheka before 1937g fought with not their Russian people. Until then, one Orthodox Christian, too, put an end to this. More precisely two.

            Your position is clear. But not original and not interesting ...

            Good Georgians came (or rather two) and put things in order. Now who are we waiting for? Chechen? wink

            And why are you again clinging to these meat grinders?

            It's not me. Such methods are used by some commentators. They were talking about executions without trial and investigation, and they were "so after all they looted the looters" .. They were talking about repressions - and they were: "Sure, Stalin personally shot in the basement ...". Demagogy...
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 26 December 2017 12: 11 New
              0
              I understand yours. Who said that the Georgian was kind?
              you're talking about "deserters", Goebbels poisoned himself.
              1. tasha
                tasha 27 December 2017 04: 49 New
                +2
                Who said that the Georgian was kind?

                This expression is like that. Well, the Georgians came (or rather two) and put things in order.
                you're talking about "deserters", Goebbels poisoned himself.

                I managed to comprehend the deep meaning of this phrase ... sad
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 27 December 2017 05: 27 New
                  0
                  So it was.
                  Before the decimal point, or after the decimal point?
                  1. tasha
                    tasha 27 December 2017 05: 43 New
                    +2
                    So these are two phrases ?! You bark at your cockroaches, let them go in formation. Mine is sitting quietly, discussing something there ...
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 27 December 2017 23: 46 New
                      0
                      How would you arrange the 3rd World War because they pulled up the shmuklera who have nothing but beer in the refrigerator?
                      1. tasha
                        tasha 28 December 2017 10: 05 New
                        +1
                        It will not work for you. You will begin to give the order, you will get confused with commas, words, lose your thought and cannot clearly explain what you want ... wink
                        Happy New Year!
                    2. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 28 December 2017 17: 25 New
                      0
                      So you have them in this for the main? Then convey also my reciprocal congratulations to them. You are on the right track, comrades!
                      1. tasha
                        tasha 29 December 2017 04: 21 New
                        +1
                        Here you are rooting ... From scratch, pay attention.
                        Obviously, this is because the shmukler you mentioned is not able to remain silent if someone mentions him and is categorically not capable of NOT responding to the comment? wink
                        Relax and take it easy. New Year is coming ...
                    3. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 29 December 2017 06: 38 New
                      0
                      When do you perform?
                      1. tasha
                        tasha 29 December 2017 07: 06 New
                        +1
                        On the shelf! wink
                        Your comments addressed to me will be read by me, but I do not consider it necessary to answer you. Once again with the upcoming!
                    4. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 29 December 2017 08: 05 New
                      0
                      These creatures are not simple, they can also be mishandled by you.
                      http://24gadget.ru/1161062659-robota-tarakana-pri
                      vlekut-k-spasatelnym-i-razvedyvatelnym-operaciyam
                      -5-foto-video.html
                    5. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 30 December 2017 00: 03 New
                      0
                      With the upcoming 95th anniversary of the formation of the USSR! Drink your champagne yourself, I’ll go pump up under this business a glass of vodka, with pepper, with red.
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 27 December 2017 22: 34 New
      +2
      People of their origin are not shy! The FSB, then from the Cheka, happened. And at the end of 1917 there were only 24 people! Then, according to the book of Kara-Murza, there were about 4000 of them. And how much they are all attributed to ----- and not count
  26. Radikal
    Radikal 25 December 2017 19: 57 New
    +1
    Quote: DalaiLama
    Quite. But you still need to know your story.

    Do you want to teach me stories? Paraphrasing the words of a famous character I ask - What is your last name, historian: Klyuchevsky, Soloviev, or maybe I.A. Chubais ?! wassat If the latter, then I have nothing more to talk about with you! laughing tongue
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 25 December 2017 20: 59 New
      0
      No, not Chubais. Go on ...
  27. kalibr
    kalibr 25 December 2017 21: 12 New
    0
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Who was nothing, that will become everything.

    Who was nothing all can not.
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 25 December 2017 21: 34 New
      0
      Sharikov almost succeeded. Housing issue failed.
    2. Dalailama
      Dalailama 25 December 2017 21: 36 New
      0
      You came too late. Their holiday is over and comments have already begun to rub.
    3. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 25 December 2017 23: 18 New
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      Who could not be anything

      I have already explained to your colleague Dalailam on this issue. If interested, read the answer.
    4. Dalailama
      Dalailama 26 December 2017 01: 39 New
      0
      Yes, comrade stated as his working ancestor scrambled for fists, and his descendants were in sanatoriums while these Russian new serfs who survived in their Red Terror, on the contrary, were hunchbacked on collective farms.
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 26 December 2017 03: 22 New
        +3
        Quote: DalaiLama
        Yes, the comrade described how his working ancestor labored for fists, and his descendants were in sanatoriums while these Russian new serfs who survived in their Red Terror were hunched over on collective farms.

        Do not believe him, Mr. German is raving. Read my comment above.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 26 December 2017 03: 57 New
          0
          No, do not believe it, believe it! Bronshane with its "deuces" and "Bolshevik liberties" is a saint! It’s all Stalin’s fault (such a Georgian seminarist detained troops near Lviv)!
          Pan Shpakovsky, you can not try to compost your brains with your Western social elevators. He has in your collection your pink Rolls-Royce with stardust from Semyon Budyonny. Babel is your everything.
          To Ivanovo weavers
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 27 December 2017 01: 25 New
            +1
            Quote: DalaiLama
            No, do not believe it, believe it! Bronshane with its "deuces" and "Bolshevik liberties" is a saint! It’s all Stalin’s fault (such a Georgian seminarist detained troops near Lviv)!
            Pan Shpakovsky, you can not try to compost your brains with your Western social elevators. He has in your collection your pink Rolls-Royce with stardust from Semyon Budyonny. Babel is your everything.
            To Ivanovo weavers

            Well, you have thoughts like horses, one thing or another, everyone mixed up in a heap, I really don’t know which one to catch on to answer you.
            You need to sleep more, in a dream snatches of thoughts sometimes bind into a beautiful dream, although nightmares will most likely torment you ..
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 27 December 2017 02: 15 New
              0
              Are you talking about horses 1st Army? go on ...
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 27 December 2017 10: 38 New
                +2
                Quote: DalaiLama
                Are you talking about horses 1st Army?

                Well, you see you have real barnacles, everywhere you see the First Horse Army. You have a fear of it at the genetic level, you can see your ancestors have raked from it in full.
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 27 December 2017 23: 49 New
                  0
                  Everywhere you see fear and ghosts. Again you pretend that you don’t know when and where her mosquitoes ate and how did her glorious battle end?
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 28 December 2017 01: 09 New
                    +2
                    Quote: DalaiLama
                    I fear fear and ghosts.

                    You have to go to bed earlier, since your psyche is weak ...
                    Yes, but about the First Horse, what else did Goebbels invent for you, they simply intrigued them with their hints ..
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 28 December 2017 06: 02 New
                      0
                      And what do you know about this?
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 28 December 2017 17: 52 New
                        +1
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        And what do you know about this?

                        Throw it, evaluate the novelty, check for plagiarism.
                    2. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 28 December 2017 19: 00 New
                      0
                      Please, at least in general terms?
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 28 December 2017 22: 43 New
                        +1
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        Please, at least in general terms?

                        Yes, even 1000 pages are not enough for me to write the truth about the First Horse Army, and 100000 pages are not enough for me to describe all the fables that I heard and read from your brother. The entire Internet is filled with these nasty things. So do not hesitate to spread it out, we are already accustomed to the fact that you only spit slops.
                    3. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 29 December 2017 00: 54 New
                      0
                      All that is needed is to write the truth about where, when and how the 1st KonArmy ended. Come on, bolder.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 29 December 2017 20: 58 New
                        +1
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        Come on, bolder.

                        You noticed that nobody reads us anymore, your tediousness is not interesting to anyone. Better sleep, throw out the training manual and read better "Walked the path."
                    4. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 29 December 2017 22: 27 New
                      0
                      Is there something in yours about the battle of Komarov (Zamosc)?
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 30 December 2017 00: 37 New
                        +1
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        There is something in yours about the battle of Komarov (Zamosc)

                        Dear, you already have feverish nonsense, what does the Horse Army have to do with, about which we spoke of Komarov and Zamos? Sorry, but I no longer have the desire to read and discuss your nonsense. Leben Sie wohl!
                    5. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 30 December 2017 01: 32 New
                      0
                      Well, if the pan deigns to demonstrate knowledge of foreign languages:
                      https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwa_pod_Komarowem
                      it is very interesting what is about it in your training manual "The Passed Way"?
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 30 December 2017 16: 57 New
                        +1
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwa_pod_Komarowem

                        I already wrote “goodbye” in German to you, and I chose a very polite form, and you keep on humiliating and looking for all sorts of nastiness so that you only tarnish the Soviet past and offer to read some Polish inventions that the Poles did not even dare to translate into other languages, some of you bought them.
                        Therefore, dear, stop, nothing will come of you, how many have already existed before you, and even died of hatred, and the cause of socialism, as it shone, is shining. And the more you try to denigrate it, the more it attracts the attention of all peoples.
                        Once again Leben Sie wohl! Hope you wave my pen too.
                    6. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 30 December 2017 18: 00 New
                      0
                      There are also English, Esperanto, French, Chinese and Indonesian, choose any. The British and Chinese threw red losses into the red. Poles are more objective.
                      I don’t know where you have Trotskyists what else shines except for Kampuchea and the “Shining Path”.
                      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Сендеро_Луминосо
      2. avva2012
        avva2012 26 December 2017 07: 04 New
        +3
        Russian new serfs, on the contrary, were hunchbacked on collective farms

        1. DECREE of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee, SNK of the RSFSR FROM 20.06.1923 ON ID CERTIFICATION.
        2. Decree of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR from 16 on March 1930 "On Removing Obstacles to the Free Movement of Peasants to Lavatory Fields and Seasonal Work"
        3. Resolution of the Central Executive Committee and Council of People's Commissars of the USSR of December 27 of 1932 of the Year “On the Establishment of a Unified Passport System”
        4. RESOLUTION of September 19, 1934, No. 2193 “ON THE REGISTRATION OF PASSPORTS OF WASTE VILLAGE PERSONNERS HAVING ENTERING WORK IN ENTERPRISES WITHOUT AGREEMENTS WITH HOUSING BANKS”
        5. DECREE dated June 10 of 1939 of the year “ON ISSUANCE OF PASSPORTS TO PERSONS RESIDING IN MINING VILLAGES”.
        6. RESOLUTION of September 10 1940 N 1667 “ON APPROVAL OF THE PASSPORT PROVISIONS”.
        7. RESOLUTION of December 3 1959 N 1347 "ON PARTIAL CHANGE OF THE PROVISION ON PASSPORTS".
        8. RESOLUTION of July 19 1962 N 778 "ON ADDITION TO ARTICLE 40 OF THE PROVISIONS FOR PASSPORTS".
        9. Decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR of 28.08.1974 No. 677.
        Learn about the "new serfs."
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 26 December 2017 12: 18 New
          0
          1. About the introduction of "ausweis". In the backward USA, there are no internal passports now.
          2. Obstacles in Tsarist Russia for latrine industries were not even when crossing the border; documents were sometimes asked from suspicious smugglers back.
          understand this first.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 26 December 2017 13: 50 New
            +2
            What is it to understand that "serfs" in tsarist Russia were released without passports? And the crown of democracy, we now, in general, do not make out. Recall how the first non-white went to college, surrounded by the national guard?
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 26 December 2017 15: 25 New
              0
              Serfs in Tsarist Russia were given absentee ballots until 1861. Then they gave them free. One hundred years before the enslaved peasants were given out internal passports to the USSR during registration with Khrushchev.
              Under the kings of serfdom, it was never in Siberia, in the Far East, in the North of the European part and even in the Don.
              Then they passed the exams with him? White even does not enter black areas with such an environment.
  28. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 26 December 2017 17: 50 New
    +7
    avva2012,
    the people who built the USSR
    shamefully kept silent when this USSR was pulled apart in 1991. Everyone kept silent — from party ranks to ordinary collective farmers and hard workers. The Whites fought for Russia for 4 years, and no one even voted for the “precious" USSR.
    And you can not tell about Soviet medicine, the reality is more convincing than myths:

    As if life expectancy is more eloquent than stories.
    And about the formation of a fairy tale, tell the boys who are now running around the streets for Navalny’s clown. You recall how people "with the best Soviet education in the world" massively rushed to charge water from TVs, believe in fortune-tellers and psychics, tell crazy stories in the style of Fomenko and Nosovsky?
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 26 December 2017 23: 54 New
      0
      The scholars were silent, the unlearned in 1991 were killed a little less than in 1993. There were still incidents later.
    2. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 27 December 2017 01: 11 New
      +1
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      The Whites fought for Russia for 4 years, and no one even voted for the “precious" USSR.

      If not for foreign military intervention, then in the years 1918-1921 whites would also not fight for a long time, but then the whole world was afraid of communism, and he all opposed Soviet Russia. And in 1991, the whole capitalist world was happy that socialism in the USSR was defeated, and he would not have supported the Communists.
      In 1918, all the working people of Russia supported the Communists because he had a class consciousness, and in 1991 everyone was infected with a petty-bourgeois consciousness, and few understood what happened because the proletariat is fighting, it comes to power as a result of the revolution, and the bourgeoisie sneaks to power. So she crept to power in 1991.
      1. Dalailama
        Dalailama 27 December 2017 02: 17 New
        +1
        How did it happen that after standing against all the major world powers, then Tukhachevsky then ogre near Warsaw from some kind of lordly Poland? Here something does not converge.
      2. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 27 December 2017 22: 23 New
        +1
        Alexander, thanks for the clarification! The bourgeoisie crept under the Gorbachev slogans ----- MORE SOCIALISM !!!!!. And the drunk came under the slogans of the struggle against privileges!
    3. avva2012
      avva2012 27 December 2017 04: 04 New
      +3
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin And about the formation of a fairy tale, tell the boys who are now running around the streets for Navalny’s clown. You recall how people "with the best Soviet education in the world" massively rushed to charge water from TVs, believe in fortune-tellers and psychics, tell crazy stories in the style of Fomenko and Nosovsky?

      And how do your stories about the rivers of milk and the jelly banks of RI differ from Fomenko and Nosovsky? Not all can be cured, not all can be taught or sow in the head good, eternal.
      shamefully kept silent when this USSR was pulled apart in 1991. Everyone said nothing — from party ranks to ordinary collective farmers and hard workers.
      Not tired of this State Department stuff or whose else is there to repeat?
      4 White fights for Russia

      Yeah, they fought ....
      A. Suvorin, in the 1919 year, writes: "The first battle of the army, organized and received its current name Volunteer, was an attack on Gukov in half of January. Releasing the officer battalion from Novocherkassk, Kornilov warned him with words: "Do not take these rascals to me captive! The more terror, the more victory will be with them!" N.N. Bogdanov ("Organization of the Volunteer Army and the First Kuban campaign") cites the testimony of the participant of the "Ice campaign": "Captured, after receiving information about the actions of the Bolsheviks, were shot by the commandant detachment. Officers of the commandant detachment at the end of the campaign were completely sick people , before that they were nervous. Korvin-Krukovsky had some kind of special painful cruelty. The commandant’s officers had a heavy duty to shoot the Bolsheviks, but, unfortunately, I knew many cases when influenced by hatred of the Bolsheviks, officers took upon themselves the responsibility of voluntarily shooting prisoners. "
      Well, as without our "old friend", Roman Gul "Ice campaign": "It starts to get dark. They came to the edge of the village. They stopped. The square. A church is nearby. A red sun slowly falls between the blue clouds, dousing everything with crimson, scarlet rays ... A bunch of people are screaming for something. They caught a few people. They are about to shoot." You are a soldier ... your mother ?! "one voice shouts." Soldier, yes, by God, I didn’t shoot, have mercy! Innocent me! "- the other one is almost crying." I didn’t shoot ... your mother ?! "A revolver shot. It’s hard, the body falls with a moan. Another shot. Our officers approached the heap. The same voice asks the caught boy." Yes, she “God, uncle, I wasn’t anywhere!” - a crying, tearing voice cries a boy, blue-pale from mortal fear. “Do not kill! Dont kill! Innocent me! Innocent! "He cries hysterically, seeing a hand rising with a revolver." ... "I went out into the street. In some places the residents were visible: children, women. I went to the church. The dead were lying in various twisted poses ... The wind blew in, lifted their hair, moved their clothes, and they lay, like a wooden one. A cart approached the dead. A woman in the cart. She got out, came up, began to examine them in a row ... Whoever lay down on their faces, she lifted and again carefully lowered, as if she was afraid to hurt. She went around everyone, about one fell, first on her knees, then on the dead man’s chest and plaintively, cried loudly: "My darling! Lord Lord! .. "I saw how, while weeping, she laid a dead, naughty body on a cart, as another woman helped her. The cart, creaking, quietly left ... I went to the woman who was helping ..." What is this, my husband found ? "The woman looked at me with a heavy gaze." Husband, "she answered and walked away ... I walked to the main square. I wandered around the square with a whirlwind, the Tekinets rode. Like a bullet, a little white horse flew, and it jumped up and down, If it fell, then a raspberry Circassian of a Tekin hung to the ground. The Tekin people who watched approvingly, shouted noisily ... In the evening, at "in the presence of Kornilov, Alekseev and other generals, they buried ours killed in battle. There were three of them. Seventeen were wounded. There were 507 corpses in Lezhanka."
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 27 December 2017 04: 25 New
        +2
        Continue?
        3 December 1919 Kolchak signed a decree on the widespread use of the death penalty for attempted assassination of the health and life of the Supreme Ruler, for the fight against the white regime. After the coup, the Kolchakites began to arrest and destroy the Social Revolutionaries overthrown by them. On 22 on December, a group of Bolsheviks and soldiers attacked a prison in Omsk and released those arrested. Part of the Social Revolutionaries, about 60 people, decided to return to prison, hoping that the "legitimate authority" would justify them. But at night the convoy brought them to the ice of Irtysh and shot them.
        18 on May 1919 of the year, general budberg wrote: "The uprisings and local anarchy spread throughout Siberia ... the main areas of the uprising are settlements of Stolypin agrarians ... sent sporadically punitive detachments ... burn villages, hang up and, where possible, mess up. Such measures of these uprisings cannot be reassured ... in encrypted reports from the front more and more there are ominous words for the present and menacing ones for the future “having killed their officers, such and such a part turned red.” And not because, - the general wrote quite rightly - that he is prone to the ideals of Bolshevism, but only by that I didn’t want to serve ... and in a change of position ... I thought to get rid of everything unpleasant. " V.V. Kozhinov writes: “There were no less, but more, those who were in trouble in the Urals and Siberia under Kolchak. The arbitrariness of representatives of the military authorities irritated. Regular troops, especially Cossack, as well as Japanese, Czechoslovak, Polish and other units, began to be massively used. that many Cossack punitive detachments played a black role. There are many documents, including Kolchak’s, testifying to the cruelty of Cossack detachments in relation to civilians. "
        When the "death trains" were in Primorye, they were visited by employees of the American Red Cross. One of them - R. Buchani wrote in his diary: “Until the moment we found this terrible caravan in Nikolsk, 800 passengers died of starvation, dirt and disease ... I saw corpses of people whose bodies were corroded by parasites during their life time until they died after months of painful torture daily from hunger, dirt and cold. I swear to God, I’m not exaggerating! .. In Siberia, horror and death at every step on such a scale that would shake the most callous heart ... ” General Graves, commander of the corps of American interventionists in Eastern Siberia, wrote in his memoirs in 1922: "Terrible murders were committed in Eastern Siberia, but they were not committed by the Bolsheviks, as they usually thought. I will not be mistaken if there were a hundred killed for every person killed by the Bolsheviks anti-Bolshevik elements. "
        In September, the 1918 peasants revolted Slavgorod county in Altai. They refused to give conscripts to the Siberian army, captured Slavgorod. On September 11, the punitive detachment of ataman Annenkov arrived in Slavgorod. On this day, punitive captured, tortured, shot, hanged 500 people. They burned down the village of Cherny Dol, where the rebel headquarters were burnt.
        Did you say something about Zemlyachka and Saenko? And how do you like Annenkov, Baron Ungern, Ataman Semenov, noblest people? They didn’t look for fords, they walked knee-deep in blood. And, yes, I almost forgot that the Reds left on the same terror. Who, basically, fought in Siberia and the Far East? Didn’t the partisans break the ridge both for the Cossack punishers and their curators from the Japanese and American administrations?
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 27 December 2017 04: 47 New
          +3
          And you can not tell about Soviet medicine, the reality is more convincing than myths:
          As if life expectancy is more eloquent than stories.

          You mean life expectancy, what did you want to say? It makes no sense to compare it in the 1913 year and the 1977, but in the USSR, nevertheless, what was it like? And one more fact. In the USSR, abortion was very bad and although, at the official level, an adult woman could have performed this intervention without problems until 12 weeks of pregnancy, propaganda was set up so that this decision was difficult to give. There was moral pressure from both medical workers and society as a whole. Posters in antenatal clinics, "Save my life," which was only worth it. So, for many who hate Soviet power now, it has given, this power, to see the light in general.
          This is what the Bolshevik fanatics called for and taught the population: Author: O. Grun. Year: 1925. Publisher: State Publishing House. Place of publication: Moscow.
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 27 December 2017 05: 56 New
            0
            Are you already here with yourself? Grandmothers, of course, did not study and did not give birth themselves.
            In the USSR, abortion was very ill treated only under Stalin. Already your "Countrywoman" you justify, which he simply entered in the red book. Together with a barbel and lover, dance and play the accordion.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 27 December 2017 09: 15 New
              +1
              Not yet with you. You yourself are not a grandmother, did not give birth? Maybe the birth took once to reason on this topic? Or, you yourself in conditions not of the Soviet maternity hospital gave birth, but from here and the attitude to the owls. authorities?
              And what, do you know about the Countrywoman? All from the same sites, "cursed days"?
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 27 December 2017 23: 21 New
                0
                You are smarter to listen to you than Mikhailo Lomonosov, who was deprived of this great socialist joy.
                Soviet maternity hospitals were and are more abortions.
                Precisely justify. I see the theme of the Countrywoman and such maternity hospitals is very close.
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 28 December 2017 01: 12 New
                  0
                  Quote: DalaiLama
                  You are smarter to listen to you than Mikhailo Lomonosov, who was deprived of this great socialist joy.

                  Go already to sleep, otherwise you already write some nonsense.
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 28 December 2017 06: 13 New
                    0
                    You forgot about your "Countrywoman", (post) Soviet maternity hospital and abortion.
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 28 December 2017 17: 55 New
                      0
                      Quote: DalaiLama
                      You forgot about your "Countrywoman", (post) Soviet maternity hospital and abortion

                      Poor thing, did not get enough sleep ... then the Horse Army raved, now the Countrywoman ...
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 28 December 2017 19: 02 New
                        0
                        She could not fall asleep until she killed some. Now you have forgotten about your "hospital" in which such through one / one.
  29. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 28 December 2017 22: 47 New
    0
    Dalailama,
    Quote: DalaiLama
    Now you forgot about your "hospital" in which such through one / one.

    The speech is incoherent, keep raving, it's time to go to the doctor.
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 29 December 2017 00: 56 New
      0
      Now they forgot about the "Countrywoman".
      Yes, only to you, and to that one.
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 29 December 2017 20: 55 New
        0
        Quote: DalaiLama
        Now they forgot about the "Countrywoman".

        You "went in cycles", to the doctor, dear, and urgently.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 29 December 2017 22: 24 New
          0
          You are fixated on the doctor. Now they have “forgotten” everything, and to answer above where it was about cookies, non-runaway oligarchs, Khmer Rouge, and why the revolution in Russia was not peasant like that. Sing the international again, dear comrade.
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 30 December 2017 00: 12 New
            0
            Quote: DalaiLama
            Now they have “forgotten” everything, and to answer above where it was about cookies, non-runaway oligarchs, Khmer Rouge, and why the revolution in Russia was not peasant like that.

            You should at least read your text, you have an incoherent set of words, well, then how can you not be sent to the doctor after that. So listen to good advice, be treated.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 30 December 2017 01: 26 New
              0
              Well, since at least they realized that they were fixated on the doctor, then here I repeat:
              Quote: DalaiLama
              why did not the peasantry infect Marxism in agrarian Russia, did it also exist, and the revolution was only proletarian?

              Quote: DalaiLama
              Not runaway Ukrainian why didn’t they destroy the oligarchs of the mansion?

              This is not an incoherent set of words, you just had nothing to answer in that thread.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 30 December 2017 17: 03 New
                0
                Quote: DalaiLama
                You just had nothing to answer in that thread.

                Hello to you from Mikhalkov.
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 30 December 2017 17: 47 New
                  0
                  And now too.
            2. Dalailama
              Dalailama 31 December 2017 14: 01 New
              0
              Anticipating your answer, which was never followed:
              The peasantry in the countryside under bloody Tsarism was never illiterate. In addition to home education, it was educated at least in the Central House of Artists at every church and craft schools, and besides, the great and bloodless revolutionary propaganda could be oral. The worker, too, by no means everyone needs to understand the drawn drawings, they said to bring - brought, said to carry - carried. They said to deliver, set.
              Probably because it was possible and can be obtained now from the protection of an unfortunate Ukrainian oligarch. Well, and what then is universal dissatisfaction and revolution? Unless directed by them in the right direction.
  30. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 18 January 2018 21: 07 New
    +2
    Quote: DalaiLama
    The worker, too, by no means everyone needs to understand the drawn drawings, they said to bring - brought, said to carry - carried. They said to deliver, set.

    This phrase once again confirms that you are a student of Goebbels.