Military Review

Russian Navy. A sad look to the future (part of 2)

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In the first article of this cycle, we reviewed the current state and immediate prospects of the submarine component of the strategic nuclear forces of the Russian Federation; now we have a non-strategic nuclear submarine fleet.




Today, the Russian Navy, not counting SSBNs and special purpose nuclear ships, includes 9 nuclear-powered missile cruiser submarines (SSGN) and 18 multi-purpose nuclear submarines (MAPL). Of course, 27 submarines on paper look impressive. But it should be understood that the vast majority of our submarines were introduced in the period of the end of the 80-x - the beginning of the 90-ies of the last century. We have only two more or less new (in terms of construction) submarines: the “Severodvinsk”, on which the naval flag was raised in 2014, and the “Cheetah”, commissioned in 2001. Accordingly, the number of ships the system (and not on paper) will be determined primarily by the carrying capacity of the repair capacity.

Four companies are engaged in the repair of nuclear submarines in Russia:

1) Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center JSC (hereinafter referred to as “Zvezdochka”), located in Severodvinsk;

2) Nerpa SRZ, Snezhnogorsk (Murmansk region) - is a subsidiary of Zvezdochki, therefore in the future we will count it as part of Zvezdochki;

3) JSC "Far Eastern Plant" Star "(hereinafter -" Star "), located in the town of Bolshoy Kamen, Primorsky Krai;

4) Amursky Shipbuilding Plant PJSC (hereinafter referred to as “AES”) located, respectively, in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

Without being either a submariner or a shipbuilder and in no way claiming the truth in the last resort, but after wandering through specialized forums, the author of this article made the following impression about the possibilities of the above-mentioned enterprises.

An asterisk can do everything: repair of any degree of complexity and major modernization of a nuclear submarine.

"Star" is able to cope with repairs of boats, but will experience some difficulties with the modernization.

"ASZ" - the "black hole" of the underwater nuclear fleet, the ship that got there is waiting for decommissioning and cutting.

Let's look at what the above companies are going to load in the coming years.

The basis of the non-strategic nuclear submarine fleet of the Russian Federation today consists of two types of submarines: these are the 949 “Antey” SSGNL (the dead Kursk belonged to them) in the number of 8 units and 11 MAPL of the 971 “Shchuka-B” project (the 12th boat of this type, Nerpa leased to India). At the same time, the SSGM is obviously the basis of the strike forces and are intended to fight large enemy ship groups (including AUG), and MAPL are primarily focused on anti-submarine warfare.

Let's start with the project 971 "Pike-B".



In fact, under the common name “Pike-B”, four modifications of the 971 project “hid”, for the enumeration of which we use the NATO classification (in the domestic one it is much easier to get confused). NATO project 971 dubbed "Akula". Today, the Russian Navy has 5 submarines of the “original” 971 (the brackets indicate the year of entry into service): “Sperm Whale” (1988); Bratsk (1989); Magadan (1990); Panther (1990); "Wolf" (1991).

MAPL of this type was a domestic response to the American submarine "Los Angeles", and the answer is extremely successful. N. Polmar (renowned naval analyst) at a hearing on the National Security Committee of the US House of Representatives said:

"The appearance of Akula-type submarines, as well as other Russian submarines of the 3 generation, demonstrated that Soviet shipbuilders have closed the noise level faster than expected."


I would like to recall the famous 29 incident of February 1996, when a national submarine came in contact with NATO ships asking for help: emergency medical assistance was needed for one of the crew members because of peritonitis. Shortly thereafter, a Russian boat floated in the center of the NATO ships' order, the patient was transferred from it to the British destroyer, and then to the hospital. Such a touching picture of the friendship of peoples “slightly” was spoiled by the fact that the NATO squadron, generally speaking, conducted anti-submarine exercises, but until our submariners did not get in touch, nobody knew about their presence in the immediate vicinity of the warrant ... then, that we faced the newest "Pike-B", but it was a mistake: in fact, the help was requested by the Tambov, the ship of the project 671РТМ (К), i.e. previous type of boat.

The noise level of the Akula 971 submarines was reduced relative to 671РТМ (K) 4-4,5 times.

Of course, in the future, the USSR was not going to stop there and proceeded to the construction of an improved version of the 971 project, which received the designation “Improved Akula” in NATO. These boats for low noise no longer set parity, but took the lead. The Americans noted that at operational speeds of the 5-7 nodes, the noise level of boats of the Improved Akula type, recorded by sonar tools, was lower than the noise of Improved Los Angels (that is, Improved Los Angeles). At the same time, according to the head of the operational department of the US Navy, Admiral D. Burd, the American ships were unable to accompany the Improved Akula submarine at speeds of less than 6-9 nodes.

The Russian Navy today includes the 4 MAPL "Improved Akula": "Kuzbass" (1992); Leopard (1992); Tiger (1993); Samara (1995).


Kuzbass


Subsequently, ships of this type were still improved: the ship on which part of the proposed innovations were worked out was the Vepr (1995), designated as Akula II, and the first production (and alas, the only new boat) to be commissioned was the " Cheetah "(2001) in the terminology of NATO -" Akula III ". These two ships in a number of parameters (including the noise level) came very close to the 4 generation of atomic submarines.

MAPL project 971 "Pike-B" along with the previous type 671РТМ (K) became the favorite ships of Russian submariners, who valued them for their reliability, convenience and combat power, and, in the end, ships of this type are amazingly beautiful. They certainly were able to cope with the tasks of anti-submarine defense, while the backbone of the American submarine forces were submarines of the "Los Angeles" and "Improved Los Angels".

In other words, for its time, the ships of the 971 "Pike-B" project were both perfect and extremely formidable weapons. The problem is that this time is a thing of the past.

In order to understand with whom (if something happens) our MAPL will have to fight, we will make a small excursion into history American Navy.

For a long time in the US Navy acted the concept that the multi-purpose submarines had as their main task to destroy Russian submarines on the lines of antisubmarine defense. But the development of Soviet technology led to the fact that there was absolutely no need for Russian SSBNs to go to the ocean. The increased range of ballistic missiles made it possible for submarine rocket carriers to hit targets in the United States while in the seas of the Arctic Ocean and the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, and the growing sea power of the Soviet Union made it possible to ensure domination over water and air in these areas.

The deployment areas of the Soviet SSBNs were located near the Soviet naval bases and were covered by everything that the Soviet Navy had. Including numerous Aviation land-based, many surface ships, and, of course, the latest atomic "Pike" and "Pike-B." These areas in the US Navy were called "Bastions": the US Navy, with all its might, could not invade the "Bastions", defeat them and take control in order to destroy the Soviet SSBNs at the beginning of the conflict, and then it would be late.

Russian Navy. A sad look to the future (part of 2)


From here, in fact, went to changes in the US naval strategy. The fleet demanded submarines capable of searching and destroying submarines of the USSR directly in the "Bastions". To do this, the Americans needed anti-submarine atarins capable of successfully operating in the zone of domination of the Soviet Navy and Air Force. And such ships were created - the Sivulf series submarine. They were the first submarines of the 4 generation, and, by the totality of their combat qualities, they became, and perhaps still remain, the most formidable multi-purpose submarines of the world. Of course, nothing is given in vain, and the cost of the newest American submarines was too heavy even for the US budget. As a result, the Americans built only three Sivulf, and later switched to cheaper, but somewhat less efficient Virginia.

However, the "Virginia", although they are essentially a kind of "light version", designed with certain requirements, one of which was the preservation of noise at the level of "Sivulf." And besides, the "Virginia" retained from their formidable "ancestors" a very perfect sonar complex. In general, Virginia is an unconditional step forward in comparison with Improved Los Angels, and of all our eleven 971 MAPLs, the equivalent of our Virginia is just two submarines: “Boar” (“Akula II”) and "Cheetah" ("Akula III"). At the same time, the US Navy already now has the 15 "Virginia" and the 3 "Sivulf".

On the other hand, “Shuki-B” have a very large modernization potential. Currently, there is a project 971М, which envisages, literally, the construction of a new submarine in the old building for less than half of modern atomarines. The volume of alterations is very large, but for this money we get a boat, closely close to the 4 generation and quite capable of resisting the Virginia. At the same time, according to some data, the lifespan of the upgraded MAPL is increased by 10 years.

Initially, there was talk that the 971 boats would be upgraded under the 6M project, and the Zvezdochka was to do this. However, as of 2017 g, we are already talking only about four: "Leopard", "Wolf", "Bratsk" and "Samara". At the same time, the Leopard was put into modernization as early as the middle of 2011, and the contract for its “transformation” into 971M was signed in December 2012. The boat had not returned to the fleet before, the deadlines for the sailors were constantly shifted “to the right”. Not so long ago, they talked about 2018, but now about 2019. On the one hand, this is quite explicable by the global scale of work on the ship. Modernization of "Leopard", according to some sources, was supposed to cost 12 billion rubles. still in old prices. But on the other hand, such rates do not inspire optimism at all: it should be assumed that the delivery of four MAPLs of the 2019М project to the fleet in 2025-971 will be the limit of Zvezdochka production capacity for the next decade. And that is if the fleet for the new HPV 2018-2025 has enough money for all four nuclear submarines!

What is the fate of the rest of the boat project 971? Sad as it may seem, but most likely, the two Kashalot and Magadan submarines will leave the Russian Navy: both are now on the Amur shipbuilding yard, and they have little chance of returning from there. “Vepr” (“Akula II”) is finishing the repair at Nerpa (branch “Zvezdochki”) and, probably, after it repairs will be carried out (“Akula III”) “Cheetah” (this is not about costly modernization, but rather on average repairs, although it is possible that the Cheetah will need a major overhaul).

You can also probably guarantee that “Kuzbass” (“Improved Akula”), which completed the repair in 2016, will be preserved, but everything about “Tiger” and “Panther” is not so simple. These ships resembled repairs in 2002 and 2008. accordingly, so by 2025, obviously, the next one will be needed, but will these boats receive it? Before 2025, they have practically no chance of major repairs, but will the military invest after 2025 in 32 and 35-years old ships? Who, after expensive repairs, will still not be equal to the American “Virginia”? Let's face it: hardly.

Most likely, and even in the most optimistic version, by 2025 we will have 4 boats upgraded by the 971M project, and also 2 approaching the 4 generation “Vepr” (“Akula II”) and “Cheetah” (“Akula III), and all of these boats will be in the fleet, and not in repair or waiting. In addition, it is possible that the Kuzbass will remain in the fleet, but the rest will most likely go into the reserve, from which they will never return. Not that they could not be put into operation, but what's the point? Today, when the 971-22 boats upgraded under the 28 project have made years to invest big money in order to provide the fleet with four powerful atomarins capable of serving 12-15 after repair for even a little more years, but why invest large funds in 35 summer ships? To send them to scrap in 5 years after leaving repair?

Eh, if the Russian Federation had money and production facilities to “drive out” all eleven ships, or at least nine, with the exception of the newest “Cheetah” and “Boar” over the next decade, with the 971 modernization program! .. But no money , we have no capacity for this ...

Therefore, our forecast for ships of the 971 project: seven ships to 2025, four 971M and Akula II, Akula III and Improved Akula, one, while the last, Improved Akula, to 2030. will leave the formation. And, no matter how sad it is to realize, this scenario should be considered as optimistic. And by 2035, we will most likely have to say goodbye to all the ships of the Pike-B project - by this time all of them, except for the Cheetah, will be transferred to 40 for years in the fleet.

However, the attentive reader has already noticed that, considering the prospects for repairing “Shchuk-B”, we take into account only the “Asterisk” and “NEA”, but not the Far Eastern “Star”. Why? To answer this question, let us consider the second basis of our submarine forces - the SSGN of the 949A Antey project.



These ships, "aircraft carrier killers", do not need a special introduction, because, probably, there is not a single person at least interested in the state of the modern Russian fleet and not knowing about them.

Opinions about their combat effectiveness vary. Some people see in the Antei an ultimatum weapon, which is guaranteed to “multiply by zero” enemy AUG at the beginning of the conflict. Others, on the contrary, consider the 949А ships almost useless, because, in their opinion, the Granit 24 RCC is not enough to overcome the AUG warrant's air defense system. According to the author of this article, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

In order to use their main weapon at a distance close to the limit, the Anteyam needs external target designation, which is not so easy to obtain and not so easy to send to a submarine. In the USSR, for this purpose, the system of sea space reconnaissance and target designation Legend and target designation aircraft Tu-95РЦ were used. But “make friends” satellites with submarines did not work, because too much should be done too quickly: find the target with a satellite, classify it, calculate target designation, transfer it to the submarine ... In theory, it all worked fine, but in practice it regularly crashed . A "carcass", built in 1962 year and on duty obliged without fighter cover to operate in an area controlled by enemy carrier-based aircraft, had few chances to complete the task.

Today, no “Legend” is gone, the “Liana” (full impression) that replaced it has never “arrived,” having limited itself to only four satellites, which is absolutely not enough. Theoretically, ships of the 949A project could have received target designation from over-the-horizon radar stations (if the latter still learned to do this) or (which looks more realistic) from DRLO A-50 or A-50У aircraft operating in the interests of the fleet. But the author is not aware of any teaching in which the VKS and the fleet would try to work out such an interaction.

It should be understood that the need to deploy 24 huge anti-ship missiles "Granit" could not affect the characteristics of "Anteev". The boats of the 949А project are more than 1,8 times as large as the MAPL “Pike-B”. It may not have affected the maneuverability of the missile submarines too much (in fact, their power plant represents a double Schuki-B power plant), but one can hardly expect the same capabilities of the Anteyev to resist enemy submarines, as well as 971 submarines. Still, the “Antheus” are highly specialized submarine-carrying submarines intended for the destruction of squadrons of surface ships, and not for anti-submarine warfare.

But still, despite the absence of external target designation, the 949A project still remains a formidable opponent of the carrier strike groups. Even in cases when “Antey” has to rely on its own GAK, it is still capable, with good luck (the entrance of the AUG to its patrol zone) to deliver a “dagger” strike at it from a distance of 120-150 km, and possibly more (for GAK boats The 949 project indicated the maximum detection range of 230-240 km, but, of course, it all depends very much on hydrology). And whatever calculations the supporters of the Aegis American system would give, giving second-long timekeeping, how one Arly Burk destroys the full volley of the SSGN of the 949 project, but in real combat everything happens “a little” not according to the formulas. Wonderful British air defense system "Sea Wolfe", during exercises without problems, intercepted 114-mm projectiles in flight, in real combat conditions often could not react to the subsonic Argentine attack aircraft. Instead of a “paper” 85% efficiency, the air defense missile system “overslept” almost 40% attacks, while in the others it showed approximately 40% efficiency. The same applies to the American Patriot air defense missile system: in ideal conditions, “Desert Storm” (no EW, Skud launch salvo), at best, they demonstrated 80% efficiency.

But what is the 80% effectiveness of air defense when attacking the 24 ASM "Granit"? These are 4-5 that have broken through to the target of the rocket, which may not be enough to destroy the aircraft carrier, but in order to severely damage and disable it, disrupting the performance of the combat mission, more than.

Thus, until recently, “Antei” of the 949A project could be considered as a rather formidable naval weapon, although it did not become “vundervaffe” due to the lack of external target designation, but still, under certain conditions, representing a terrible danger to enemy surface ships. Alas, the years are flying fast.

Despite the indisputable advantages of PKR Granit, it must be remembered that this is the development of the 70s of the last century, which was put into service in 1983, that is, 34 a year ago. During this time, the electronic "stuffing" of the rocket is certainly very outdated and, probably, today it does not fully meet the requirements of the naval war - it is quite possible to assume the increased vulnerability of the AHFS rocket to the effects of electronic warfare.

Therefore, our SSGNs needed new missiles, and the modernization project that exists today implies not only upgrading the missile-carrying equipment, but also installing the 72 Launchers for the new Caliber, Onyx and, probably, Zircon instead. Such a number of modern missiles in one salvo practically guarantees a glut of modern air defense AUG and the destruction of an aircraft carrier, but again - only if the modernized SSGN can approach AUG at its detection range by shipboard SAC (or if AUG itself approaches the SSGN patrol area) , despite the low noise level and the capabilities of the SSGN sonar complex of the 949A project, even after modernization, they will be inferior to the submarines of the 4 generation of the US Navy and will not be able to withstand the Sivulf and Virginia.

Nevertheless, the modernized "Antei" will remain a rather formidable weapon. The problem is that from 8 there are only four such upgrades that are currently part of the Russian Navy. "Irkutsk" and "Chelyabinsk" are passing it now, and after them, probably, the turn of "Omsk" and "Vilyuchinsk" will come ("Omsk", probably, has already risen to modernization).

The problems are the same: such modernization is extremely large-scale and complex, and therefore expensive, despite the fact that Star specialists, as it can be supposed, do not yet have enough experience to implement projects of this level. From this it follows that the next decade, “Zvezda” will be busy with work on “Anthey” and will not be able to do anything else.

As can be understood from open sources, in the coming years Zvezdochka will focus on upgrading Shchuk-B, and Zvezda will focus on Anteyev. It’s far from the fact that the “Star” will succeed, that the dates will not move to the “right” and that within the framework of the HPV 2018-2025. four updated SSGNs will return to the fleet, but ... let's say, they have returned. What will happen to the remaining four? Alas, their prospects are completely bleak.

The fact is that by 2025 the age of Voronezh, Orel and Smolensk will reach 33-36 years, and only Tomsk, transferred to the fleet in 1996, will be still relatively young, 29-year-old. Accordingly, only "Tomsk" has some hope of upgrading in the following HPV 2026-2035, but extremely illusory. First, taking into account the real terms of our ship repair, the modernization of the four Anteevs will be delayed, and secondly, such a modernization will take several years, and it’s not a fact that the Navy will want to pay for the outdated ship entered into service year in 2030 th or even later.

Most likely, while four “Antey” are being upgraded, the second four will serve, especially since “Tomsk” and “Orel” completed repairs in 2017, Smolensk - in 2014, and only “Voronezh” - in 2011 g. But as the upgraded ships come into service, they will leave the fleet and go for recycling. And the main reason for this will not be their technical condition, but the absence of the main weapon, for the sake of which these boats, in fact, were created.

Although the author does not know when the production of "Granites" was discontinued, it can be assumed that this happened quite a long time ago. Already at the beginning of the 2000's, Granit was not considered a rocket at the cutting edge of military technological progress, and in 2001, the design of its upgraded version was started. But these works were not completed (about 70% of the development work was completed), after which they were stopped in 2010. Thus, the updated version of Granite did not take place, of course, no one will have to restore the production of missiles according to the original and outdated project, and the previously released 2025 missiles will run out of warranty periods with the highest probability. Thus, the non-modernized SSGN of the 949A project will lose their main weapon, and as multi-purpose submarines they are untenable even now. Accordingly, their presence in the Russian Navy will lose all meaning.

As a result, we come to the conclusion that from the 11 MAPL of the 971 “Pike-B” project and the 8 SSGN of the 949A “Antey” project that are now part of the Russian Navy a decade later, we will have the 7 MAPL and 4 PLARK. Yes, from this number 8 atomic will undergo a deep modernization, but from 19 ships 11 will remain, that is, the number will fall more than one and a half times! And even such a result is achievable only with the allocation of a sufficient amount of funds for the fleet in the new HPV 2018-2025 and the shock labor of our ship-repair industry. And it still looks overly optimistic!

At the same time, surprisingly, but the number of atarin projects 971 and 949А bearing the service, and not standing in reserve, for repair or waiting for it will not dramatically increase. Now we have 4 MAPL Shchuka-B and 5 Antey SSGNs, i.e. 9 ships, and by 2025 g they will be either 11 or 10 in case the “Cheetah” is still put in for repair by that time.

And what about the rest of the Russian Navy submarines? The first thing to consider when trying to predict their fate is that they cannot count on any serious repairs, because money and power will be used primarily for the Anteyev and Schuk-B modernization programs.

Currently, the Russian Navy has three MAPL project 671РТМ (К) "Pike". The boats of this type are outdated, and even in 2013, it was decided that it would not be expedient to modernize them, because ships were built on 70 technical solutions of the last century and it is impossible to bring them to the necessary parameters today. Of the three remaining “Shchuk”, “Daniel of Moscow” is in reserve, and it is unlikely to ever come out of it, “Tambov” seems to be under repair, but most likely is simply decommissioned and remains in the sludge in the ship repair yard. (possibly - "Nerpa"). Only one Obninsk remained in the ranks. With the highest probability to 2025, not a single ship of the 671РТМ (К) project will remain in the Russian Navy.

The 945A “Condor” project is a relatively non-old boat of the 3 generation “Nizhny Novgorod” (1990 g) and “Pskov” (1993 g).



They have titanium cases, were overhauled in 2008 and 2015. respectively. In terms of their fighting qualities, they are not inferior to MAPL of the first series 971 project, respectively, will become obsolete by 2025 and, with a high degree of probability, will leave the system, although it is possible that they will extend the service life to 2030, but not further. By this time, the age of the boats will be 40 and 37 years.

Two Barracudas, the 945 project: Kostroma and Karp complete our list. And if the fate of their “descendants” - “Condors” is questionable and there may still be various options, then, alas, everything is clear for Barracudas. They are in reserve and will end their days there, because their modernization does not look justified, and besides, there will be no money or industrial capacity for it.

Based on the foregoing, it can be assumed that from the non-strategic atomarines in the 26 fleet (excluding Severodvinsk) by the 2025, the year will remain good if the 13 boats and the 2030 g remain 11. At the same time, the number of nuclear submarines of the 885 “Severodvinsk” project, which we will examine in detail in the next article, is limited to 7 boats, and there will be no new atomarins other than 2025-2030 except them. This means that the number of SSGNs and MAPLs in the composition of the Russian Navy continues to decline, and in the next 15 years it will decrease from 27 to 18. Of course, the quality of the nuclear fleet of the Russian Navy will become much stronger, but its number, which is completely insufficient today, will continue to decline.

Someone might object: of the 27 atarin available today, most of it is in reserve and repair. This is definitely the case. But the calculation of combat-ready submarines does not give much reason for optimism. Today, 1 Severodvinsk, 5 Antey SSGNs, 4 MUPL Shchuka-B, 1 Shchuka, and 2 Condor, that is, 13 boats, are ready for the march and the battle. By 2030, we will have 18 boats. Obviously, some of them will be undergoing maintenance, so that there will be no major improvements here, alas.

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  1. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 25 December 2017 15: 15 New
    +6
    The British then considered that they had encountered the newest Pike-B, but that was a mistake: in fact, Tambov, a ship of Project 971RTM (K), asked for help, i.e. boat of the previous type.

    Ummm .... turn nine over, please: Tambov is a project 671RTMK.
    MAPL project 971 "Pike-B" along with the previous type 971RTM (K) became the favorite ships of Russian submariners
    And here too.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      25 December 2017 15: 22 New
      +6
      Yeah, thanks, be sure to ask the moderators to fix it. repeat It seems to be checking ...
      1. avt
        avt 25 December 2017 15: 40 New
        +2
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Yeah, thanks, be sure to ask the moderators to fix it.

        request And then the eye hurts right away.
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        It seems to be checking ...
        It happens that you are rereading and blurring. bully
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          25 December 2017 15: 51 New
          +3
          Quote: avt
          It happens that you are rereading and blurring.

          That's for sure ... I sent the request :)))))
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 25 December 2017 15: 52 New
        +3
        Here are a couple of places where the 671th Pike suddenly with a flick of the hand turned in the 971th "Pike-B":
        Currently, the Russian Navy has three MAPL project 971RTM (K) "Pike."

        With the highest degree of probability, by 2025 no project ships will remain in the Russian Navy 971RTM (K).

        RTM (K) is the 671th project. The 971th project has not yet reached so many modernization letters behind the project number. smile
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          25 December 2017 15: 59 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexey RA
          RTM (K) is the 671th project. The 971th project has not yet reached so many modernization letters behind the project number.

          Apparently, I was very smart about using AutoCorrect and did not notice this.
      3. Oden280
        Oden280 25 December 2017 18: 42 New
        0
        After Sea Stone and the fact that the "Star" carries out only boat repairs, the article can not be read.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          25 December 2017 18: 44 New
          +7
          Quote: Oden280
          and the fact that Zvezda carries out only boat repairs, the article can not be read.

          This is where in the article it was said that the "Star" ONLY repairs boats? Maybe at first all the same, before reading an article, is it worth learning to read?
          1. Oden280
            Oden280 25 December 2017 18: 56 New
            0
            "Star" is able to cope with repairs of boats, but will experience some difficulties with the modernization.
            The Zvezda enterprise was created and worked on the completion of boats and ships manufactured at other enterprises (Gorky Red Sormovo Plant, Amur Shipbuilding Plant). At present, after the modernization, it is envisaged to master the full construction cycle.
            The Amur Shipbuilding Plant cannot produce fully finished ships and boats due to its location (Amur's channel is small and completely ready ships do not pass).
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              25 December 2017 19: 18 New
              +3
              Quote: Oden280
              "Star" is able to cope with repairs of boats, but will experience some difficulties with the modernization.

              And where are you recommending
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Zvezda only repairs boats

              Or, in your opinion, what is written in the article and what you “read” are one and the same thing?
              Quote: Oden280
              The Amur Shipbuilding Plant cannot produce fully finished ships and boats due to its location (Amur's channel is small and completely ready ships do not pass).

              I’m embarrassed to ask, but where did you build Komsomolsk-on-Amur? And upgraded where?
              1. Oden280
                Oden280 26 December 2017 17: 58 New
                0
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                I’m embarrassed to ask, but where did you build Komsomolsk-on-Amur? And upgraded where?

                The hull was welded at the Amur Shipyard, completed building in the Big Stone. Everything is as always in the Far East.
                And as for the rest, do not distort or write clearly.
          2. BABAY22
            BABAY22 25 December 2017 19: 06 New
            0
            Maybe the Star is in the Big Stone? And not the Sea Stone.
  2. NEXUS
    NEXUS 25 December 2017 15: 53 New
    +8
    Two Barracudas, the 945 project: Kostroma and Karp complete our list. And if the fate of their “descendants” - “Condors” is questionable and there may still be various options, then, alas, everything is clear for Barracudas. They are in reserve and will end their days there, because their modernization does not look justified, and besides, there will be no money or industrial capacity for it.

    And here I argue with the author. The modernization of Barakud, in my opinion, is justified for two reasons. First, we are sorely lacking multi-purpose nuclear submarines. And the second one, “eternal boats” during modernization and, say, an insert of vertical launchers, will be quite remarkable multi-purpose workers who will be able to compete with the Virgins.
    And one more thing, I spoke about the kator repeatedly, life itself makes us, in the light of such hopeless prospects in the construction of multipurpose ships, return to the construction of a submarine of the Hunter class (LIRA submarine) up to 3000 tons, which could partly assume the functions of multipurpose in construction, they would be much cheaper and they could be built faster than Ash or Husky.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      25 December 2017 16: 04 New
      +6
      Quote: NEXUS
      And here I argue with the author. Modernization of Barakud, in my opinion, is justified for two reasons

      I have heard that modernization to a level close to the 4th generation can no longer be extended. But here I can’t say for sure.
      Quote: NEXUS
      First, we are sorely lacking multipurpose nuclear submarines.

      As well as places where we can upgrade existing boats, alas. In general, everything will be scored 971 and 949A, as I understand it
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 25 December 2017 16: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        As well as places where we can upgrade existing boats, alas. In general, everything will be scored 971 and 949A, as I understand it

        There is still a big question on the 971th ... Grenades were removed from them, intending to replace all this with Caliber-PL. But then again, Gauges through TA or all the same will embed "vertical lines." If Gauges are under TA, then I think these are the same eggs as Grenades (it is clear that without YaBCh). in the 971s ask for vertical pu. Another question is what will actually be modernized and what will be redone.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          25 December 2017 16: 16 New
          +4
          Quote: NEXUS
          in the 971s asking for vertical pu

          Yes, they do not ask :))) They are not needed there at all. In any case, we will need ships to guard the SSBN deployment areas, these are purely anti-submarine functions. Why are there rockets?
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 25 December 2017 16: 27 New
            +4
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Why are there rockets?

            But why vertical launchers on Yasen? M ... The answer to your question lies in the very name of this class nuclear submarine-multipurpose.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              25 December 2017 16: 29 New
              +4
              Quote: NEXUS
              And why vertical launchers on Yasen? M ...

              So wagon. So expensive that we are building as many as 7 pieces, and if something happens, we’ll put the SSBN on guard and we need its missiles there ...
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 25 December 2017 16: 38 New
                +4
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                So wagon. So expensive that we are building as many as 7 pieces, and if something happens, we’ll put the SSBN on guard and we need its missiles there ...

                At least two multi-purpose soldiers are needed to cover the SSBN, and in this matter we have a strong quantitative bias towards the SSBN.
                That is why I’m talking about the modernized Lira project ... we simply have no choice. How to cover our strategists? Varshavyanki?
                1. Lexus
                  Lexus 25 December 2017 19: 06 New
                  +2
                  At least two multi-purpose soldiers are needed to cover the SSBN.

                  To ensure the combat stability of SSBNs (SSBNs), besides MAPL, surface ship groupings "above" are needed. The most promising areas of military patrols are located in the southern hemisphere, which is not covered by US SPRN and Izhisami, which is important for providing accelerating sections of launching SLBMs.
          2. g1v2
            g1v2 25 December 2017 17: 12 New
            +5
            In my opinion, it would be more logical to entrust the security forces to the security forces of the SSBN deployment areas. Especially if they get an anaerobic plant. MAPL at the moment is just the weapon of attack. Moreover, the most suitable enemy for operations on sea lanes. ACCORDINGLY, THEIR ANTI-WATER FUNCTION IS DEPARTED FOR THE SECOND PLAN. Hence the obsolescence of torpedo apls as a class. request That is, the fleet is no longer needed without the possibility of a full-fledged strike on the objectives of the Kyrgyz Republic.
            And about Barracuda, I agree. The titanium hull is good and the boats have modernization potential, but there is clearly not enough capacity for modernization. ACHA competencies in the construction or modernization of the submarine lost in connection with which he did not even trust him to build a submarine for the Pacific Fleet. And the Asterisk and Star will obviously be loaded with work on Antei and Pike-b. request In general, in my opinion, in many respects, the fate or failure of the creation of a project with an anaerobic installation will determine the fate of the modernization plans of our submarine fleet. Tk such a project will be clearly cheaper than the construction of apl and less noisy. What, in principle, was proved by the teachings of the American Apple on confronting the Swedish The Swede won quite clearly. If our project is successful. then plans to modernize old apl are clearly subject to reduction. hi In the meantime, there is no clarity, it’s completely impossible to clearly say what will be modernized and what is not.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 25 December 2017 18: 52 New
              +4
              Quote: g1v2
              In my opinion, it is more logical to entrust the security to the security forces of the SSBN deployment areas

              With their 24 nodes? And what are they protecting there? The same Vashavyanki are ambush DEPLs. I’m talking about the Okhotnik class. The same Lira easily accelerated to 40 knots back in those days.
              1. g1v2
                g1v2 25 December 2017 19: 40 New
                +3
                Well, ambulances are needed for security. They will have to act in their area. request Well, when the enemy is detected, then the meaning of chasing him? Let the rocket chase after him. wink
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 25 December 2017 19: 43 New
                  +3
                  Quote: g1v2
                  Well, ambulances are needed for security. They will have to act in their area. request Well, when the enemy is detected, then the meaning of chasing him? Let the rocket chase after him. wink

                  You slightly forget one moment ... how much can a Varshavyanka be in an autonomous region? But you still have to get to the northern regions.
                  1. g1v2
                    g1v2 26 December 2017 00: 32 New
                    +2
                    45 days? Is not it so? DF SF are based in the same Murmansk region. Only not in Gadzhievo as strategists, but in Polar. Well, yes, still nearby. request And areas where it is necessary to provide protection are also not so far away. Well, dap will change more often than strategists, so what? Again, on occasion, you can also boot somewhere else. There would only be supply ships. Since at normal times in such duty the BC will not be wasted, it can be supplied to the sea or to a calm bay. request
                    At the Pacific Fleet, they plan to build a base on Matua. From there to Vilyuchinsk not far. PM will also have someone to cover. And from Vlad, of course, a decent cut to Kamchatka. But then again, no one bothers to place part of the submarine in Kamchatka. request
                    And of course, it is necessary to develop a network of detection tools on its territory. North of Norway, at the entrance to the White Sea, between the Kuril Islands and so on. In general, I am sure that the deployment areas of strategists should be defended precisely by a dap. Well, plus IPC, 2038x “corvettes” and aviation plos.
                  2. Kirill Popov
                    Kirill Popov 26 December 2017 12: 12 New
                    0
                    Have you forgotten about the 677 Lada? Let them be only three by 2020, but still at least something.
        2. Lexus
          Lexus 25 December 2017 18: 47 New
          +2
          or all the same they will embed "vertical lines".

          The boats of the 945th and 945A projects are titanium. Additional difficulties may arise.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 25 December 2017 18: 56 New
            +3
            Quote: lexus
            The boats of the 945th and 945A projects are titanium. Additional difficulties may arise.

            And without the "hemorrhoids" we can’t do anything.
            1. ZVO
              ZVO 25 December 2017 21: 12 New
              +2
              Quote: NEXUS

              And without the "hemorrhoids" we can’t do anything.


              Even with hemorrhoids, nothing will work.
              The next generation, no matter how Andrei pulled the “Owl on the Globe” in the form of “modernization will bring it closer to the N-generation,” is unbeatable in the backlog of the previous one.
              for the next generation is not a new weapon at all.

              This is a different mix. new boat concept.
              A new concept for its design.
              Re-conceptualized not only the contours, but also the circuitry of the energy movement system and the re-supply of energy.
              Again, all pipelines are designed according to new, previously unused schemes.
              Redesigned GAS and BIUS and all-all-all avionics are also under the new.
              And all this is done in a complex as a result.
              The quality level is always determined by the "weakest link".
              And let you equip the boat with all the extraordinary alien computers for the mind - if the GAS and the contours of the hull are old - then the whole boat will be old ...
              One cannot expect miracles in the old building.
              For everything must be redone in it. All. by all 146%.
              But why?
              If you design, test, build a new, next generation, it will cost much less than just one profound modernization with cutting out the entire filling, and attempts to install and install a new filling.
              Let me remind you again.
              One old item is enough ...
    2. Alex_59
      Alex_59 25 December 2017 21: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: NEXUS
      Modernization of Barakud, in my opinion, is justified for two reasons

      Who will only do this? Titanium alloys on such a scale ... This was done at Krasnoye Sormovo, which had changed its profile long ago, and I am sure that the technology has been lost. And the second - it's horseback expensive. I think I will not be far from the truth if I assume that a major overhaul with the modernization of one 945 will cost one and a half new Ash-trees at a price.
      1. NikWik
        NikWik 26 December 2017 13: 59 New
        +5
        Well, why did they deal with titanium only on the Red Sormovo. The same 705 projects were built at the NSR and 3 more ships in St. Petersburg. Another thing is that the NSR is loaded to capacity, and in St. Petersburg nuclear boats are no longer being built.
  3. Vard
    Vard 25 December 2017 15: 53 New
    0
    We are a poor country ... And either boats ... Or something else ... For example, strategic aviation or "Poplar" ... On the other hand, an aircraft carrier working along the coast is within the range of front-line aviation ... And this is a completely different matter ... And if it is far away ... So let it float ... It is not dangerous ... And there is one consideration ... On our few boats ... There are several dozen US boats ... And these are resources and so on. .. And here we seem to win ...
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      25 December 2017 16: 07 New
      +8
      Quote: Vard
      And either boats ... Or something else ... For example, strategic aviation or "Poplar" ...

      Their main task is to cover the SSBN, we have 10 planned, and now they’re already writing about 12 Boreev. 12 Boreev * 16 missiles * 4 warheads (if this is taken under the agreement) = 768 warheads or almost 50% of what is deployed under the agreement (1600 warheads). As you read, do you need to cover half of the strategic nuclear forces of the Russian Federation, or will it cost?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 25 December 2017 16: 21 New
        0
        They will manage, at the berth they will launch rockets.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          25 December 2017 16: 28 New
          +2
          Quote: Vadim237
          rockets will be launched at the pier.

          Well, given the fact that from Vladivostok to Portland, almost 7 km in a straight line - you will scratch the US coast
        2. Lexus
          Lexus 25 December 2017 18: 52 New
          +2
          It makes sense then to build an expensive SSBN, if you can start from the pier with a barge?
  4. Sailor
    Sailor 25 December 2017 15: 54 New
    +8
    It’s bitter to read, from the USSR’s once mighty submarine fleet, there were crumbs that were not timely repaired and modernized.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      25 December 2017 16: 08 New
      +9
      Quote: Sailor
      Bitter to read, crumbs from the once mighty Soviet submarine fleet

      Absolutely agree
  5. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 25 December 2017 16: 06 New
    16
    With a sober look and the presence of brains, it immediately becomes clear that declaring your habits to one of the leading places in the world among the Navy and having real opportunities for this are two different things yes
    So I see only two ways for the development of the Russian Navy - either to moderate the ardor of admirals and bring their needs to the capabilities of the economy, or to modernize the economy, nationalize resources and make it capable of giving what is needed, for example, to the Navy. And while maintaining the current state of affairs, Prokhorov and Abramovich will have their own oligarchic fleet more expensive and more than the Fleet of their beloved country lol
    The decaying socialist USSR had an order of magnitude more power and finance than a prosperous democratic Russia.
    Draw conclusions request
    Andrey, once again a portion of respect for raising an uncomfortable topic and expressing one’s position on this issue hi
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      25 December 2017 16: 21 New
      +6
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Andrey, once again a portion of respect for raising an uncomfortable topic and expressing one’s position on this issue

      Thank!:)
      Quote: Rurikovich
      So I see only two ways for the development of the Russian Navy - either to moderate the ardor of admirals and bring their needs to the possibilities of the economy

      Yes, yes, yes, but the problem is that, without a fleet, we stuffed almost half of the strategic nuclear forces under the water.
    2. g1v2
      g1v2 25 December 2017 17: 22 New
      +3
      It seems that you obviously do not know anything about the relationships of modern navy. belay I explain. There are three great maritime powers - the United States, China and the Russian Federation. All. request All the others in terms of number of ships, total displacement and combat capabilities are not even close. Russia, in any case, will remain one of the three great naval powers. The only question is which of the three places we will take. The first place in any case will remain with the United States by a wide margin and we will not be able to catch up with it and will not even try. But there are quite chances to defend their second place. For example, now on Sevmash 13 apl are being built at the same time. In total, they alone will dramatically increase our capabilities. But the Chinese have serious power invested in the development of the surface fleet. Who will be the second and who will be the third in the mid-20s is a moot point. In any case, applicants to break into our top three great sea powers and move us has not yet been observed. hi
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 25 December 2017 17: 55 New
        +2
        Quote: g1v2
        It looks like you don’t know anything about the relationships of modern navy

        Believe me, I have a good idea yes
        Quote: g1v2
        There are three great maritime powers - the United States, China and the Russian Federation.

        I don’t argue, the only thing is that Russia got what was built under the USSR. And at the moment, according to the financial capabilities of the United States ahead of the rest, China demonstrates the delights of capitalist socialism and shows what the USSR had. And Russia has what the author described yes
        Quote: g1v2
        For example, now on the SEVMASH at the same time 13 apl.

        The question is small - WHEN will they come into operation with such a model of economy, which is now in Russia. Just think about the real terms of repairs, upgrades, and construction of submarines of all types today - maybe then a little land yes
        Quote: g1v2
        In total, they alone will dramatically increase our capabilities.

        Read the article carefully. Until they come into operation, a decent part will be decommissioned or located on long periods of expensive upgrades, which in quantitative terms will certainly not increase the Fleet's capabilities.
        Quote: g1v2
        But the Chinese have serious power invested in the development of the surface fleet.

        What the Soviet Union demonstrated and modern Russia can’t boast in any way, especially against the background of failures in terms of the construction of a few frigates and corvettes. I’m silent about the ships of the main classes. And do not forget that the entire quantitative composition of the Fleet is divided into 4, because each of the 4 fleets (Navy, BF, Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet) in fact turns out to be so weak that even a separate operational connection is impossible in them assemble and are limited to detachments of 2-3 ships. Beautifully on paper, but in reality sad ...
        Quote: g1v2
        In any case, applicants to break into our top three great sea powers and move us has not yet been observed.

        And who, Portugal or Spain will rush alone to fight against the Russian Federation ??? laughing No one cares about your third place, when in front of you is a whole block under the leadership of a country in which one connection has the capabilities of a half Fleet of Russia ....
        1. g1v2
          g1v2 25 December 2017 19: 36 New
          +5
          It was your idea that Russia would drop out of the composition of the great sea powers. I showed that you are mistaken. In the next 10-15 years, Russia will remain one of the 3 great sea powers. Just because the rest is much weaker. This is for a start. request
          Secondly, Andrei wrote about the modernization program for Apple, and not about the construction of new ones. All buildings under construction by 2025 will obviously be built and most likely new ones will be laid. At least there is no doubt about the strategists. 5 Boreev-a will be surrendered by 2025 and I am sure that bookmarks of Boreev-b will begin to replace 6 Dolphins. request PM with strategists, too, trouble is not expected. wink
          On the construction of mapples and the number of modernized apls, the question is related to another topic - the development of a draft project with an anaerobic installation. Depending on its success or failure, plans for the further construction of new apls and modernization of old ones will be adjusted. Today we just can’t say how much and what will be built and modernized except what is in progress now. Hence the constant changes in the wind after each interview with officials, shipbuilders or the military. To tear off hair on the ass without having ready-made plans in hand is silly. request
          But the rest is boltology. not bearing a semantic orientation. But of course we are glad that the inhabitants of Belarus are so concerned about the state of our Russian fleet. Well, listening to economic advice from a country that constantly consumes Russian subsidies and loans is certainly interesting. We have rotten capitalism, you have wise socialism. But for some reason we give money to you, and not vice versa. If everything is so well-arranged with you, then why don’t we ask you for a loan and are not eager to work for you? How is it, the tax on parasites then canceled? laughing
          1. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 25 December 2017 19: 45 New
            +7
            Quote: g1v2
            Well, listening to economic advice from a country that constantly consumes Russian subsidies and loans is certainly interesting. We have rotten capitalism, you have wise socialism. But for some reason we give money to you, and not vice versa. If everything is so well-arranged with you, then why don’t we ask you for a loan and are not eager to work for you? As there, the tax on parasites then canceled

            Well, this is a blow below the belt yes What we have left after the USSR. HOW the USSR economy was built, I think there is no need to say. Because jumping with joy that it was you who left natural resources at least stupid, especially making faces to neighbors, hostages of the collapse of the USSR wink
            At least the “masters of life” do not buy yachts for themselves, and foreign football clubs amid the rest of the country's impoverishment wink tongue
            1. g1v2
              g1v2 26 December 2017 00: 48 New
              +5
              “The rest of the impoverishment of the country” is more to you painted by Belarusian TV, showing that this is how people live without the wise guidance of the Old Man. Well, the sufferers on the internet, who usually write their suffering on completely cheap computers or smartphones. The most convincing talk about the suffering of ordinary people was recently read to me by a friend who just bought a s8 samsung for more than 50k rubles. belay And far from an oligarch, but quite a hard worker. People who receive 15 thousand for some reason are not sitting on the internet, but they stupidly earn a living. request You rarely meet beggars on the site. They are busy with others.
              Well, about the resources. Well, if you are sure that the guarantee of the wealth of the population is a wise socialist system, then without resources you should have taken off with a rocket. But as it turned out, it was not only socialism and honest leadership. wink
              And about buying foreign clubs, I am also against. NEHAY BUY OUR AND INVEST IN THEM. I am not against yachts or gold toilets. They don’t touch me at all. My requirement is only one. So if you earn in the Russian Federation, then you spend here. Build yourself any yacht, even with a cruiser, but at Russian shipyards, from Russian components, allowing workers to earn these shipyards. We have 45 large shipyards and many need orders. No satisfying conditions? Buy a shipyard and upgrade - this is clearly cheaper than the cost of even one top-end yacht. As for the gold toilet, the Ural jewelers also need work. request
              Including in the news about expensive yachts, the fact of the purchase does not annoy me. and the fact that the money goes to the workers of German shipyards. not Russian. I repeat. Earned in Russia - spend it too. am hi
          2. Alex_59
            Alex_59 25 December 2017 21: 47 New
            +6
            Quote: g1v2
            Russia in the coming 10-15 years will remain one of the 3 great maritime powers. Just because the rest is much weaker. This is for a start.

            Like a phrase taken out of reality sounds pathetic. But the sailors of a single Northern Fleet will not help when they have to confront the combined NATO fleet in the North Atlantic, where a quarter of the US fleet will undoubtedly come, and the entire fleet of Great Britain, Norway, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark.
            This is to say that in practice our naval greatness should be divided into 4 of individual isolated DB theaters. Because it is neither hot nor cold in the North, because the 3 / 4 Navy is squeezed somewhere in the Baltic and the Black Sea, and the Far East has its own universe in general.
            But the greatness of the United States must be flavored with all the NATO fleets, and in the East also Japan and South Korea will be added, these will not be left aside when it comes to the matter.
            1. The Siberian barber
              The Siberian barber 25 December 2017 22: 44 New
              0
              I agree completely!
              Despite the fact that you gave an example of the most efficient fleet, the Northern! In the Baltic, for example, full seams !! ((
              Sunk, drank, put out to sediment ... Truly combat-ready ships, almost on the fingers of one hand, you can count ((
              It just surprises me, sometimes, the reports on increasing the combat efficiency of the fleet are braving ..
            2. Tektor
              Tektor 25 December 2017 23: 26 New
              +2
              But the sailors of a single Northern Fleet will not help when they have to confront the combined NATO fleet in the North Atlantic, where a quarter of the US fleet will undoubtedly come, and the entire fleet of Great Britain, Norway, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark.
              Does this fleet exist? Germany has ended: all 6 boats are under repair. The Naglia has a couple of boats afloat ... Like the rest, I don’t know. The problem of the submarine fleet is that it is possible to build a distributed submarine network against it, which will completely "illuminate" an important section of the sea or ocean zone. And in other critical places, active and passive buoys used from helicopters and airplanes can be used. And extraneous boats will inevitably be detected and identified. Those. anti-submarine defense can be transferred to the forces of the aviation fleet and submarine DRONs. It is important to manage to deploy a network of underwater scouts.
              In addition, very smart torpedo mines are in service, which can also close a significant area of ​​water, thanks to its recognition radius of several tens of kilometers.
            3. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 26 December 2017 00: 06 New
              +2
              Quote: Alex_59
              4 separate isolated DB theaters

              Of which 2 are actually NATO internal seas.
              Quote: Alex_59
              here the greatness of the USA must be spiced up with all the NATO fleets, and in the East also Japan and South Korea should be added

              In fact, the picture of who dominates where in the article is given. In such circumstances, it is reasonable to set precisely that the task of protecting the SSBN bastions. And that is not so simple. The Sea of ​​Okhotsk is much larger than it appears on the map. You can hide a couple of AUGs, there was a precedent.
            4. g1v2
              g1v2 26 December 2017 01: 17 New
              +5
              That is, are you going to build a fleet comparable to the fleets of all NATO countries, Japan, South Korea and Australia with New Zealand? belay Good luck. But only at his own expense. wink In my opinion, only another military bloc can resist such a military bloc. Trying to force the fleet of one country to measure pussies with the combined fleets of the entire Western world is rather stupid. You may not agree. But to protect their shores and strategists is quite possible with the support of the shore and aviation. Personally, I am for an asymmetric answer. request
              If our isolated fleets (Black Sea Fleet and Baltic Fleet) manage to take control of the Black and Baltic Seas, which is quite realistic, then the fleet will already fulfill a significant part of its tasks. To ensure the defense of the Kola Peninsula and to keep the Okhotsk, White and Barents Seas is also quite realistic. Even with isolated tvd. request
              Well, apl - in my opinion, they will have to leave in advance or break into the Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean for operations on enemy communications. The main probable opponents are 5 - the USA, Canada, Australia, Great Britain and New Zealand. Plus maybe Japan. All these are maritime powers, strongly dependent on maritime trade and transportation. The main ones are the USA and Great Britain, which are extremely import-dependent countries. The Germans have clearly shown how to act against the Anglo-Saxons of the continental power twice. They did not lose at sea. Troops. equipment, supply, replenishment, as before, will go by sea. And goods, as well as raw materials in the USA and Britain, too. Anglo-Saxons cannot protect all sea communications. How could they not do it before. And the last German submarines interned in South America 10 years after the end of the war. Enough for the cargo insurance to jump. so that the damage is comparable to striking at any military base. Plus, the main economic centers of these countries (California, Texas, the east coast of the United States, and Australia, not to mention the islands of Great Britain, Japan or New Zealand) are quite within reach of the caliber strikes from the special warhead from the sea. However, such tactics require MTO points and operational bases in areas of Africa, South and Latin America and Oceania, prepared in advance for receiving submarines. Strongly in advance. wink
              And in my opinion, mattresses understand this danger. Hence the massive contracts for the purchase of Poseidons. Let's be honest. Our surface fleet never scared mattresses. but they remember the danger of unlimited submarine warfare on their main communications. hi
              1. ZVO
                ZVO 26 December 2017 07: 30 New
                +1
                Quote: g1v2

                Well, apl - in my opinion, they will have to leave in advance or break into the Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean for operations on enemy communications.


                And who will protect the native coast from the raid of tactical "nuts"?
                Who will cover their ports from the enemy’s nuclear submarines so that they couldn’t destroy Murmansk or Severodvinsk or Vladivostok point blank?

                Your tactics are possible only when you really have more sub-melting. than everyone else combined.
                And when I read about Gauges with special warheads - everything else becomes clear.
                conclusion - in my head - porridge ...
          3. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 26 December 2017 21: 28 New
            +1
            Quote: g1v2
            But for some reason we give money to you, and not vice versa.

            Where do you give? I put on my boots and run to get, where to run?
            You give out loans to Belarus and it was not audible that you would write them off, a loan is when banks give money at interest, banks earn money on loans, it is beneficial for Russian banks to issue loans to Belarus at least somewhat risky.
    3. shahor
      shahor 25 December 2017 17: 57 New
      0
      The USSR did not have any financial capabilities at all - for which it paid (broke up, tearing itself).
      Gorbachev tried to save the economy by stopping the two most expensive projects - Typhoon and Tu-160, but this was clearly not enough, and even later.
      1. avt
        avt 25 December 2017 18: 16 New
        +8
        Quote: shahor
        The USSR did not have any financial capabilities at all - for which it paid (broke up, tearing itself).

        wassat
        That is - do you have enough money? Matroskin: We have the means. (taps his forehead) We aren’t smart enough.
        Quote: shahor
        Gorbachev tried to save the economy by stopping the two most expensive projects - Typhoon and Tu-160, but this was clearly not enough, and even later.

        Yes . what else can I say ... really lacking in mind and explain something else to the campaign
        companion singer humpback
        Quote: shahor
        late.
    4. NikWik
      NikWik 26 December 2017 14: 03 New
      +4
      Totally agree with you. And this author did not even get to surface ships. There ... more. Author plus
  6. Taoist
    Taoist 25 December 2017 16: 14 New
    0
    Well, not being a specialist in underwater affairs ... nonetheless. I wonder what is based on the calculations about the combat effectiveness of submarines as a means of anti-submarine warfare? as far as I know, our boats have a longer "arm" in terms of weapons. Usually it is said that our boats are noisier (although it seems like the last generations are identical in noise level and it is worth considering the fleet of non-nuclear boats which are a priori less noisy and therefore have an advantage in detection? With regards to target designation. IMHO, but there were rumors about working on underwater drones carrying out long-range search and target designation.Such ligament may close the issue of issuing target designation for surface purposes.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      25 December 2017 16: 20 New
      +6
      Quote: Taoist
      I wonder what is based on the calculations about the combat effectiveness of submarines as a means of anti-submarine warfare?

      Yes, as it were a fact. The farther, the lower the boats, the less opportunities for surface ships and aircraft to catch or kill them. But it’s very difficult to kill in general, a modern nuclear submarine is such a monster that you’ll even know where it is, so try to kill him ... he’ll kill him, whoever he likes :)
      Quote: Taoist
      as far as I know, our boats have a longer "arm" in terms of weapons.

      There, it’s important not so much a means as an ability to detect an enemy remaining undetected
      1. Taoist
        Taoist 25 December 2017 17: 50 New
        +1
        Well, I meant comparative calculations. For example, as far as I know, no one really knows how much the same Sea Wolf is more effective than an aircraft - (there are more advertising than facts) - the real effectiveness is too multifactorial.

        again, "the ability to detect without being detected" is not only noise parameters but also a bunch of factors starting with tactics ... Because if I, for example, sit in an ambush somewhere, I will definitely hear the enemy earlier than he does me ... (simplify of course for clarity)
    2. ZVO
      ZVO 25 December 2017 21: 27 New
      0
      Quote: Taoist
      Well, not being a specialist in underwater affairs ... nonetheless. I wonder what is based on the calculations about the combat effectiveness of submarines as a means of anti-submarine warfare?


      It's simple.
      Read the articles of our submarine leaders as they studied the traces of the clashes between our submarines and overseas ...
      And there were actually a lot of collisions / contacts.

      In the figure, almost 90% was that they were all then. when the Americans were behind. On the tail hung ...

      Unless only Baton Rouge - no luck ... the commander got nervous and rushed to the wrong place at the last moment ...
      1. NikWik
        NikWik 26 December 2017 14: 12 New
        +4
        Baton Rouge collided with K - 276 whose commander was then cap. 2 ranks Elbow. After that, we joked at the flotilla - A new tactical “elbow strike” tactic was developed. But seriously - the showdown was harsh and there was little to no one
  7. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 25 December 2017 18: 42 New
    0
    We already once built 164 nuclear submarines and overcame. Where does the author push us? Again in an arms race? Nothing to be like America. It is necessary to raise the standard of living of the people and give an asymmetric answer due to robots-submarines ... bully
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      25 December 2017 18: 46 New
      +8
      Quote: Dzafdet
      Where does the author push us?

      The author personally does not push you anywhere. The author advocates the safety of half of the strategic nuclear potential of the Russian Federation (just as many deployed at the SSBN)
    2. sd68
      sd68 25 December 2017 20: 03 New
      0
      This is not the author pushes ....
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. exo
    exo 25 December 2017 19: 48 New
    0
    Still, Big Stone :)
    And so, the continuation is not bad. Although not fun.
    The main sadness will be continued.
  10. doktorkurgan
    doktorkurgan 25 December 2017 19: 55 New
    +1
    And about the "Husky" will be?
    1. ZVO
      ZVO 25 December 2017 21: 30 New
      +3
      Quote: doktorkurgan
      And about the "Husky" will be?


      Here's about Husky ... fellow
      1. doktorkurgan
        doktorkurgan 25 December 2017 22: 19 New
        +1
        Actually, I am interested in the opinion of the author on the basis of, for example, this one:
        https://topwar.ru/132426-giperzvukovye-rakety-rob
        oty-i-50-let-v-stroyu-proekt-apl-haski.html
        1. ZVO
          ZVO 25 December 2017 22: 34 New
          0
          Quote: doktorkurgan
          Actually, I am interested in the opinion of the author on the basis of, for example, this one:
          https://topwar.ru/132426-giperzvukovye-rakety-rob
          oty-i-50-let-v-stroyu-proekt-apl-haski.html


          I am not an author, but they didn’t even start to do a project there ...
  11. Tests
    Tests 25 December 2017 20: 03 New
    +9
    The question for today is No. 1: will Mr. Marichev be able to establish production at Zvyozdochka?
    Answer: probably not, because ... 1 Mr. Kalistratov was left to him as an adviser, Baal has not gone anywhere. Therefore, as children, grandchildren, nephews and nephews, lovers and lovers stole, so they will steal. 2. Unlike the times of the USSR, in Severodvinsk there is no influx of fresh personnel from other cities with higher and secondary technical education. Consequently, there is no “unfocused” view of the state of affairs in the team, on the site, in the department, and there is no desire to improve something, there are no new ideas and the influence of technical and scientific schools of other teachers and other sectors of the economy on ship repair. In addition, teams from other cities supported each other, competing with the ossified Kum-Swat-Brother system. Young people are practically "sucked out" from the region as workers. And people from other regions do not go to former vocational schools. There is no normal prospect in obtaining housing and a normal salary. 3. The system created by "United Russia" for receiving money from a position by a leader, regardless of the result, with a huge monetary gap from the bulk of workers at a state enterprise, has led to the fact that for many years workers in St. Petersburg have received the same amount of basic specialties how many on the "Asterisk" and "Sevmash." (In Severodvinsk, those who don’t remember, the northern coefficient is 2,2) The Old Man would take an example, the head of a state-owned enterprise cannot receive more than 5-6 times the average salary in an enterprise. 4. The system of suctioning money from the State Defense Order in the form of STC Zvyozdochka, an environmental palace on the White Sea, FOK Zvyozdochka - millions stolen from orders for choreographers, accompanists, choreographers, hockey coaches, lighting and sound equipment, costumes, waitresses when arriving tall guests on the seashore to the Ecological Palace to monitor water and air, kickbacks to Baal for concerts of artists in the STC. 5. The tax police destroyed by one of the current candidates for the presidency of the Russian Federation, the reform of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (not a single criminal case for 3 years on the BEP line at either Zvyozdochka or Sevmash), it looks like the manual department of the FSB is higher than the masters at Sevmash "Of those who collected tens of thousands of rubles for prize kickbacks, it has not been established in any one of the hee hee hee whole TWO criminal cases. They couldn’t even find out who and why Mr. Baal was hit on the head with. 6. And the hull of the long-suffering fourth in the series of the project 50010 trawler where to put it? How many years has he been riding an Asterisk? Our fishermen walk along the harsh sea of ​​the Barents on such troughs that it is possible to give them all the Orders of Courage. And the Prime Minister of the Russian Federation is still surprised that fish in shops is so expensive in the country.
    On the southern coast of the Nikolsky branch of the Northern Dvina, on Sevmash, the problems are similar, but there is one more. “Sevmash” with the former urka, and now the deputy of the ArchoblDuma Dyatlov (until now the “Red Forge” “Zvezdochka” cannot restore due to the budget since those times when Sasha and his dad were directing there) decided to play politics. They elected to the city council, at a turnout of 11% (with bonuses and time off for those Sevmash employees who photograph their ballot with a mark against the name of the candidate from the Sevmash team) of bluish deputies, and the cameraman Serba, and Mr. Spiridonov’s beloved daughter, they have no time to work now.
    Everyone is discussing how the “Skolkovo miscarriage” in the position of GMO Severodvinsk, Mr. Skubenko will develop tourism in Severodvinsk and Nenoks (who does not remember, Severodvinsk is closed to free visits by foreign citizens, Nenoksa is closed to free visits by Russian citizens).


    0
  12. Kirill Popov
    Kirill Popov 25 December 2017 20: 54 New
    +1
    "At the same time, the number of nuclear submarines of Project 885 Severodvinsk, which we will consider in detail in the next article, is limited to 7 boats, and until 2025-2030 there will be no new atomarines besides them."

    How does the author have such confidence that there will be no new atomarins until 2030, and that the "885" project will be limited to only seven units?

    “Almost all of the nuclear submarines of projects 885 Yasen and 955 Borey have been laid down to date, however, the leadership of the Navy has repeatedly stated that the construction of nuclear submarines of this class will not stop - they are the guarantor of strategic stability and security of the Russian Federation. in this regard, it is hoped that the laying of the lead boats of new projects is not far off, which will take up a place on the slipways of Sevmash, which is gradually being vacated after the Boreev and Ashen. "

    "Sevmash also confirms the readiness to begin work on the fifth generation within the given time. In its interview to RIA Novosti, the plant’s general director Mikhail Budnichenko noted that the modernization of the enterprise’s facilities, which will allow the construction of a new generation of submarine cruisers, should be completed by 2020."

    RIA Novosti https://ria.ru/arms/20170317/1490243609.html

    In my opinion, the author has jumped too far in time, so the forecast turned out to be so sad. If the author took the date for 2020, then the forecasts would be more realistic and more positive, but probably in this case the article would have caused less resonance ..
    1. Kirill Popov
      Kirill Popov 25 December 2017 21: 58 New
      +1
      Here is another similar article from the Ribbon regarding the new state arms program for 2018-2025 and the Russian Navy:

      "However, in the next 1-2 years, it is possible that the construction of the Project 885M nuclear submarine will continue with some improvements: the development of the project and the reduction in the course of the serial production of prices for a number of key units, including the main power plant and weapons, make the serial Yaseni noticeably cheaper ships compared to the main hull, whose price in the early 2010s exceeded 110 billion rubles. This makes it possible to order another 2-3 submarines of this project in 2018-2019, followed by the transition to the construction of a new submarine. "

      "6. The economics of the project should allow the construction of at least 16-20 multi-purpose submarines (and the possibility of continuing) with the laying of every two years on average three submarines and the construction period from bookmark to delivery to the customer in the region of 4-4,5 years. Thus , the first submarines of the new project should be expected around 2025, the delivery of the last ships of the series - in the mid-2030s. "

      https://lenta.ru/articles/2017/07/15/notenoughmon
      ey /
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      25 December 2017 22: 11 New
      +7
      Quote: Kirill Popov
      How does the author have such confidence that there will be no new atomarins until 2030, and that the "885" project will be limited to only seven units?

      Because
      a) The GPV 2011-2020 provided for the construction of precisely 7 nuclear submarines of this type.
      b) GPV 2018-2025 provides for significantly less funding in the period 2018-2020 than was laid down in the GPV 2011-2020.
      c) We would build the indicated 7 Ash-trees at least until 2025
      d) By this time, in theory, they should lay the first “Husky" which before the beginning of the 2030s will not stand up - and this is still very optimistic.
      d) And, finally, the main thing - the commander-in-chief did not announce the continuation of Ash-tree in the new program
      Quote: Kirill Popov
      If the author took the date for 2020, then the forecasts would be more realistic and more positive.

      In fact, the article shows how “positive” the forecast for us is until 2020. In the best case, we will have 3 ash trees and 1M and Boar and Cheetah (although the last one will probably still be repaired) versus 971 Sivulfs and two dozen Virginia. Beautiful!
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 25 December 2017 22: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        In the best case, we will have 3 ash and 1 971M and Boar with Cheetah (although the last one will probably still be repaired) in contrast to 3 Sivulfs and two dozen Virginia. Beautiful!

        I also forgot 6 Astyut (Brexit is not Natoeksit), well, the French will also renew their 6 nuclear submarines.
        And why do not we have LA in the USA? 42 service life of the year - they will all be in service as early as 2020. Well, maybe someone will drown ... 30 pieces.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          26 December 2017 12: 42 New
          +4
          Quote: Alex_59
          Forgot 6 Astyut (Brexit not Natoexit)

          C'mon, why finish off a man?
          Quote: Alex_59
          And why do not we have LA in the USA?

          So I'm only for the 4th generation and close to him :)))))
      2. Kirill Popov
        Kirill Popov 25 December 2017 22: 46 New
        0
        In your opinion, the general director of Sevmash gave too optimistic forecasts?

        “By the end of 2020, we must transfer eight ships of the Borey series and six submarines of the Ash project to the Navy,” he said during the Army-2015 international military-technical forum.

        http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2044160

        Where did you get the extra five years?
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          26 December 2017 06: 08 New
          +2
          Quote: Kirill Popov
          about your CEO Sevmash gave too optimistic forecasts?

          Pffff ... these are not too optimistic, these are TOP optimistic forecasts.
          “Kazan” laid when? 2009. When are we waiting in the fleet? 2018 nine years
          “Novosibirsk” was laid when? 2013. When are we waiting in the fleet?
          The launch of the third nuclear submarine of the Yasen type, Novosibirsk, is scheduled for 2019. This was the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Vladimir Korolev, announced at the launching ceremony of the second such Kazan submarine. “We plan to launch the third, I think, according to the plant’s plan, in 2019”
          More on TASS:
          http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4141612

          So this is a WATER DOWN, that is, in the best and ideal case, the boat will go into operation in the next, 2020, although this does not happen. Well, let's dream. Total - 7 years.
          When to wait for the next 3 boats laid in 2014,2015 and 2016, respectively? laughing
          1. Kirill Popov
            Kirill Popov 26 December 2017 11: 28 New
            +1
            Given the fact that production is being established, and the construction of each subsequent boat is accelerating, it can be assumed that Krasnoyarsk will be operational by 2020. And if they really will not lay additional ships of this series, then this will free up the resources of the enterprise in order to complete the remaining projects even faster.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              26 December 2017 12: 01 New
              +4
              Quote: Kirill Popov
              Given the fact that production is being established, and the construction of each subsequent boat is accelerating, it can be assumed that Krasnoyarsk will be operational by 2020

              You can assume anything, including the fact that, with a wave of a magic wand, all 7 Ash-trees will be put into operation exactly on January 1, 2018.In fact, we have an avalanche-like increase in construction projects, for which Sevmash is literally not ready. As of 2012, 4 boats were built on it, now - 11. What is the reduction in construction time there? They could stand it.
            2. Rakovor
              Rakovor 26 December 2017 12: 53 New
              +2
              Yeah, see how the 20380 corvettes “accelerate” in serial production.))
      3. Kirill Popov
        Kirill Popov 25 December 2017 23: 08 New
        0
        “And if you take not absolute numbers, but the average annual value, the current program is financially comparable with the previous one”

        http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4746605

        I still do not understand why, in your opinion, the new state arms program 2018-2025 will not include multipurpose nuclear submarines. Even if the funding is indeed much less, they will likely cut off other types of military, rather than protection for the SSBN.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          26 December 2017 06: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: Kirill Popov
          And if we take not the absolute figures, but the average annual value, the current program is financially comparable with the previous one.

          You are here
          https://topwar.ru/131038-o-planovyh-zatratah-na-g
          pv-2018-2027-ne-malovata-l-kolchuzhka.html
      4. Kirill Popov
        Kirill Popov 25 December 2017 23: 28 New
        0
        "In the part of the Navy, the program (2018-2027) will also be designed for the purchase of diesel-electric submarines, new-generation nuclear missile carriers of the Husky type (with a new liquid intercontinental ballistic missile), as well as support vessels, minesweepers, corvettes, frigates, communication vessels , experimental and scientific research vessels. In the main cargo ship will also be present serial purchases of small missile ships capable of carrying Caliber-NK cruise missiles. "

        https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3007032.html

        That is, the Husky tab is planned according to GPV 2018-2027, but according to your forecasts, you should not wait for them in the ranks before the early 2030s .. not very optimistic.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          26 December 2017 06: 12 New
          +3
          Quote: Kirill Popov
          That is, the Husky tab is planned according to GPV 2018-2027, but according to your forecasts, you should not wait for them in the ranks before the early 2030s .. not very optimistic.

          But - realistic. We are building 4th-generation serial boats for 7-8 years each (Novosibirsk, Vladimir Monomakh "), but will the 5th generation be like baking pancakes?
          1. Kirill Popov
            Kirill Popov 26 December 2017 11: 54 New
            +1
            Yes, and "Prince Vladimir" for 6 years already. That is, production is being established and each subsequent ship is faster and cheaper.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              26 December 2017 12: 05 New
              +4
              Quote: Kirill Popov
              Yes, and "Prince Vladimir" for 6 years already.

              Prince Vladimir has NOT yet joined the fleet, what is it all about? The fact that they promise to pass it in 2018?
              So big, but believe in fairy tales. The boat has not even been launched, but are you waiting for it in the fleet next year?
              1. Kirill Popov
                Kirill Popov 26 December 2017 12: 47 New
                +1
                C'mon, from the withdrawal from the boathouse to the descent to the water there will be a very short period of time. It is quite realistic that they will surrender at the end of 2018. You just don’t have enough of a bit of positive. We have already climbed out of the pit of the 90s and early 2000s, it’s time to cheer up a little.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  26 December 2017 14: 05 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Kirill Popov
                  C'mon, from the withdrawal from the boathouse to the descent to the water there will be a very short period of time. It is quite realistic that they will surrender at the end of 2018

                  Yeah. Dolgoruky - from the moment of descent to surrender to the fleet - 4 years
                  Nevsky - 3 years
                  Monomakh - 2 years
                2. ZVO
                  ZVO 26 December 2017 14: 11 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Kirill Popov
                  We have already climbed out of the pit of the 90s and early 2000s, it’s time to cheer up a little.


                  You are apparently either retired already, or on someone else's budget.
                  The country is experiencing a colossal decline in the economy.
                  3-5% every year ...
                  There is no work.
                  Drivers are willing to work for months without a salary of 40 thousand.
                  Just because. that they now work in exactly the same way for only 25 thousand rubles.
                  And there’s less work and less wages ..
                  Stagnation is creepy.
                  1. Kirill Popov
                    Kirill Popov 26 December 2017 14: 54 New
                    0
                    "The country is experiencing a colossal decline in the level of the economy.
                    3-5% every year ... "

                    These are your inventions based on chronic pessimism.

                    I live in a village, and the village first of all feels any economic problems. Everything is fine here, a lot of good cars go. I work remotely, I know English, there are no debts, I like life.
                    1. ZVO
                      ZVO 26 December 2017 16: 20 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Kirill Popov
                      "The country is experiencing a colossal decline in the level of the economy.
                      3-5% every year ... "

                      These are your inventions based on chronic pessimism.

                      I live in a village, and the village first of all feels any economic problems. Everything is fine here, a lot of good cars go. I work remotely, I know English, there are no debts, I like life.


                      My friend, you get out of the near Moscow region, somewhere in Penza, the Perm Territory, the Tyumen Region ... Tatarstan (not Kazan) - and talk with people ...
                      And then you remind me of the daughter of an officer, the same one works remotely ... From America ...
                      Strange type.
                      He lives in the countryside, works remotely?
                      Are you one of these creative ones?
                      Or do you get paid for posts on the Internet on topics you need?

                      Now tell this to the drivers of dump trucks working on filling sandy roads for the oil industry in Nefteyugansk, who work 30 days a month, 12-14 hours a day and get 40-45 thousand rubles ...
                      1. Kirill Popov
                        Kirill Popov 30 December 2017 21: 08 New
                        0
                        Stavropol region. I earn not 40k, half as much, but the costs are also much less. What do you have against creative? Want changes, vote for Grudinin.
    3. The Siberian barber
      The Siberian barber 25 December 2017 22: 58 New
      +1
      If all the "Ash" build, then it will be, Already a Victory (
      The cost of boats is very high, so the series is small. And already the construction is stalling, due to lack of funds. Delivery dates, constantly moving to the right. And you say more about ..
      All the money on yachts ...
      1. Kirill Popov
        Kirill Popov 25 December 2017 23: 38 New
        +2
        The larger the series, the lower the price for each subsequent boat. So until the development of the Husky is completed, the laying of several Ash-trees is still possible.
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 27 December 2017 21: 11 New
          0
          I agree and I hope it will be so
  13. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 25 December 2017 21: 19 New
    +1
    In 3-4 years, our fleet will have two more top secret nuclear submarines - Belgorod and Khabarovsk, you can add to them the recently converted Moscow Region. But what kind of boats are the great mystery.
    1. Kirill Popov
      Kirill Popov 25 December 2017 22: 14 New
      +2
      “It is assumed that Belgorod will study the bottom of the Russian Arctic shelf, search for minerals at great depths, and lay underwater communications. In particular, with the help of deep-sea vehicles, nuclear submarines will be installed on the seabed designed to charge uninhabited underwater vehicles "The submarine will ensure the deployment of a global system of control of the underwater situation that the military is building at the bottom of the Arctic seas."

      “There is reason to believe, quite weighty, based on the facts, that these boats will be carriers of a strategic unmanned torpedo with a nuclear reactor as a power plant, with a unique range, artificial intelligence and a 100-megaton warhead. This torpedo is called Status-6.” "

      http://svpressa.ru/war21/article/171031/
    2. rudolff
      rudolff 25 December 2017 22: 22 New
      0
      Moscow region in the 29th separate brigade of submarines. Everything is clear with her. Belgorod will go there as a cabman. The only question is Khabarovsk. Perhaps it will be a long-range sonar watch.
      1. ZVO
        ZVO 25 December 2017 22: 35 New
        +1
        Quote: rudolff
        The only question is Khabarovsk. Perhaps it will be a long-range sonar watch.


        Is it a type of football field-sized antenna carrier?
        1. rudolff
          rudolff 26 December 2017 08: 11 New
          0
          Not really. We have already tried to do something similar. Take a look on the Internet, etc. 958 Bottlenose dolphin. The EGSONPO program is stagnant in our country, so such a remake of Bottlenose dolphin would come in handy.
  14. 3danimal
    3danimal 25 December 2017 21: 31 New
    +2
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Quote: Sailor
    Bitter to read, crumbs from the once mighty Soviet submarine fleet
    Absolutely agree

    We need an updated "big" economy based on high technology. And corruption losses within 10% (not 50-70% as it is now). Then there will be money and power. In the meantime, limit yourself to the necessary minimum. This time.
    You should not stand up against the whole developed world, you need to interact, getting the missing technologies as well. China as an example, at least. These are two.
  15. Nemesis
    Nemesis 25 December 2017 21: 49 New
    +2
    If we continue to give gifts of $ 750 million to Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, continue to refuse to introduce a progressive tax and nationalize oil and gas enterprises, then naturally, there will be no money left for Russia and its armed forces ...
  16. 3danimal
    3danimal 25 December 2017 21: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: g1v2
    We have rotten capitalism, you have wise socialism.

    A fundamentally erroneous approach is to defend one's own, albeit rotten system and economy no matter what. Such a "blind motherly love"))
    Self-criticism is important, how important is the correct response to reasonable criticism from the outside.
    Of the countries with GDP at the level of ours, the Russian Federation is the absolute leader in the number of billionaires, most of them are “princes of the state order”, in fact - parasites sitting on the budget.
    The example of Rotenberg, which VTB gave a multi-million dollar loan at the end of the 00s, Gazprom sold cheaper to the main daughter of the contractor, and then “loaded” with orders for amounts with 9 zeros. It is amazing how this went without the assistance of high-ranking officials and security officials. ) Where are the criminal cases and the courts? I forgot, there are people in respect of whom the IC works only on a call ..
    Belarus has its own problems, but, as they say, one must first look at oneself.
    Please note that there is no public control over the actions of the state corporation, and its attempts are suppressed by the security forces. I recall the wording of the accuser from the USSR at the Nuremberg trials: "the criminals infiltrated the government and made the state an instrument of their crimes"
  17. 3danimal
    3danimal 25 December 2017 21: 56 New
    0
    Quote: Nemesis
    If we continue to give gifts of $ 750 million to Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, continue to refuse to introduce a progressive tax and nationalize oil and gas enterprises, then naturally, there will be no money left for Russia and its armed forces ...

    This is all part of the system built by criminals. I have no doubt that a significant part of the forgiven debts went into a rollback. And we pay for everything. And then more. After the election, perhaps taxes will still be raised ..
    In an earlier article, the author called the Russian Federation a superpower. Obviously, the president does not agree with him, who clearly spoke out on this score (and here he is right). Large army and navy must come from a strong economy, otherwise they become another stone on the neck. You can compare the GDP and budgets of the United States, China, Russia and .. Japan, for example. The budget of the latter is 3,5 times more than the Russian one. USA - 20-25 Times (!). Of defense spending, $ 500-700 billion is only 10% of it.
    The economy is primary, militarization without its proper development (and cure for parasites) is a dead end.
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 27 December 2017 21: 08 New
      0
      you are comparing budgets according to the exchange rate, but you need to use material terms, although of course India, China and the United States are more powerful in all senses and calculation methods
  18. 3danimal
    3danimal 25 December 2017 22: 12 New
    0
    Quote: 3danimal
    Quote: Nemesis
    If we continue to give gifts of $ 750 million to Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, continue to refuse to introduce a progressive tax and nationalize oil and gas enterprises, then naturally, there will be no money left for Russia and its armed forces ...

    This is all part of the system built by criminals. I have no doubt that a significant part of the forgiven debts went into a rollback. And we pay for everything. And then more. After the election, perhaps taxes will still be raised ..

    Quote: Kirill Popov
    In my opinion, the author has jumped too far in time, so the forecast turned out to be so sad. If the author took the date for 2020, then the forecasts would be more realistic and more positive, but probably in this case the article would have caused less resonance ..

    I do not think that an article by RIA Novosti is enough for such statements. In any case, they are not capable of any criticism (without a team). Dependent media, however .. Who printed articles about the imminent commissioning of the Gorshkov frigate for many years? )
  19. The Siberian barber
    The Siberian barber 25 December 2017 23: 20 New
    +2
    Andrey, thanks for the analysis) It's sad to read, though,
    To be honest, I thought that with these boats, things are much worse. It is clear that this amount, even the shadow of the past, is difficult to call ((
    Oh, what a submarine fleet was, beauty and pride!
    More importantly, the continuity of traditions and the spirit of submariners is not violated.
    This is a special caste. At all times!
    God willing, rebuild the iron, little by little (although quickly necessary)
    We are waiting for new articles)
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      26 December 2017 06: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: Siberian barber
      Andrew, thanks for the analysis)

      You're welcome:)
      Quote: Siberian barber
      Sad to read though
      to be honest, I thought that with these boats, things are much worse

      So they are - I think the boats are based on the fact that all repairs will be profiled and carried out on time. When was this?
      Quote: Siberian barber
      More importantly, the continuity of traditions and the spirit of submariners is not violated.

      This is not even discussed. And yes, to maintain this continuity - there will be enough boats
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. Kirill Popov
    Kirill Popov 26 December 2017 00: 12 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    In fact, the article shows how “positive” the forecast for us is until 2020. In the best case, we will have 3 ash trees and 1M and Boar and Cheetah (although the last one will probably still be repaired) versus 971 Sivulfs and two dozen Virginia. Beautiful!


    And the remaining nine 971 and eight 949A where did you go? By 2020, there will be at least four, and possibly six, Ash trees.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 26 December 2017 00: 29 New
      +2
      It is very doubtful that Ash-tree, in the fleet, by 2020 will be even three.
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      26 December 2017 06: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: Kirill Popov
      And the remaining nine 971 and eight 949A where did you go?

      Is this the 4th generation boat? :)))
      Of the 8A, there will be 949 builds for 2020, but not the fact that they have missiles, since the Granites obviously have expiration dates, out of 4, apart from the ones I have listed, another 971. This is against more than 2 Los Angeles. There will be 30 ash trees, since Novosibirsk will not be operational until 2
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 27 December 2017 21: 05 New
        0
        I worked at the factory ... any product made when it is not known when it is possible to produce according to old drawings
  22. sd68
    sd68 26 December 2017 01: 09 New
    0
    The wonderful British Sea Wolf air defense system, which intercepted 114-mm shells in flight without problems, often in real combat conditions could not respond to the subsonic Argentine attack aircraft

    The wonderful French rocket Exoset in the Falklands never hit a battle ship made for battle.
    The wonderful Soviet P-15 missile during the Doomsday War never hit the Israeli warships equipped with the primitive EW circle "Crazy Hands" - none of the 54 fired P-15 missiles hit the target.
    Exaggeration of the real capabilities of RCC is a very characteristic feature of Runet.
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 28 December 2017 15: 01 New
      0
      Do not be so reckless British scientists believe tales. In the Gulf, two hit the American at once.
      Was the P-15 probably exported?
  23. Romario_Argo
    Romario_Argo 26 December 2017 02: 55 New
    +1
    not a complete analysis since not a word about the DEPL of the 636.6 project, which by 2030 will be at least 12
    At the current pace of construction, and the delivery of 2 diesel-electric submarines per year, starting from 2018 to 2030, a hypothetical maximum will be 24
    for example Pacific Fleet: for the defense of the Kuril ridge 6 "Varshavyanka" is redundant (!)
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      26 December 2017 06: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: Romario_Argo
      not a complete analysis since not a word about the DEPL 636.6 project, which by 2030 will be at least 12

      Have you noticed that this is a cycle of articles? Will you and about DEPL
    2. Nehist
      Nehist 28 December 2017 01: 48 New
      0
      Do not mix 6 diesel-electric submarines for that water area it is negligible!
      1. Romario_Argo
        Romario_Argo 28 December 2017 16: 14 New
        0
        in the Kuril Islands two "fence" of hydrophonesSOSUS is resting ...
        1. Nehist
          Nehist 28 December 2017 19: 13 New
          0
          What? When was the last time you were there?
  24. Jack O'Neill
    Jack O'Neill 26 December 2017 03: 09 New
    +2
    As always, the article by Andrei from Chelyabinsk is excellent!
    I like very much the articles of this author for impartiality. For all the time I am here, the questions were only in one article, regarding the modifications of the F-16. Further articles are great!
    More such authors on VO!
    Article, of course - a plus sign! keep it up, Andrew!
    We look forward to continue! wink
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      26 December 2017 06: 18 New
      +3
      Thank you, good to hear! drinks
      1. DarkMatter
        DarkMatter 27 December 2017 19: 49 New
        +1
        hi Yesterday I missed the article, but now they have written it - I did not know where to stumble))
        In general, what I want to say)) Thanks for the article and for the material! good
        Although for me there’s actually nothing new, but it’s nice to read articles where it makes sense, an attempt to understand, not a set of cliches and cliches. Even if someone can express doubts or start a discussion on this issue - so let it be done for this in order to try to understand and analyze the situation. Moreover, to do this objectively, without falling into fuzzy polymer extremes.
        The site is already surrounded by only copy-paste and a hodgepodge of articles from the newspaper Vzglyad, Izvestia and other Speed ​​Info, where error is a mistake and delirium is delirium, compared to which Wikipedia is an ideal of objectivity and adequacy))
        Andrey ray of light in the dark kingdom wassat
  25. Tests
    Tests 26 December 2017 20: 50 New
    +2
    Kirill Popov, dear, I thought it a sinful thing that you are from Sevmash. My wife, a subject teacher with 30 years of experience, with category 1, with a load of 22 hours (teacher's rate - 18 hours) for November in a regular school in Severodvinsk (neither a gymnasium and a lyceum), received 19 rubles in her hand, for October - 000 18 rubles. For two winners of the city Olympiad, she received 000 rubles of a stimulating allowance in November. This is with the “northern” in Severodvinsk at 40. In the last academic year, her salary was not 2,2-3 rubles higher. And today they say - economists were mistaken, they did not calculate exactly the need for money, since September there have been no money for stimulating bonuses.
    Give the address, I’m ready to move to the permanent residence in your rural area from the Far North !!!
  26. bonakva
    bonakva 27 December 2017 19: 35 New
    +1
    Something in foreign sources I did not find a story with the emergence of our submarine. Proofs, pliz.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      27 December 2017 20: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: bonakva
      Something in foreign sources I did not find a story with the emergence of our submarine

      And I didn’t look - I’m not good at English.
      1. bonakva
        bonakva 27 December 2017 21: 09 New
        +1
        Maybe worth it? It sounds like a hussar.
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 27 December 2017 23: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        And I didn’t look - I’m not good at English.

        You see Andrew. The fact that such impeccable publications as KP force this story is forced (of course, with reference to the "experts" and not to the primary), could alert you. There is some reason to believe that the fact - the evacuation of the patient by an English helicopter - took place, but all the details - PLO exercises, etc. - lied. As, for example, the well-known story with USS Ross, when the fact of the flight was, but everything else is not.

        However, your hygiene is your own business.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          28 December 2017 00: 04 New
          +1
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          The fact that such impeccable publications as KP force this story is forced (of course, with reference to the "experts" and not to the primary), could alert you.

          This story is mentioned very, very much where we say so - I have reason to trust her completely
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          There is some reason to believe that the fact - the evacuation of the patient by an English helicopter - took place, but all the details - PLO exercises, etc. - lied.

          There are some reasons to believe that everything you have stated is a shameless lie. This is not a personal reproach to you, of course.
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          As, for example, the well-known story with USS Ross, when the fact of the flight was, but everything else is not.

          Span of what? Tomahawks?
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          However, your hygiene is your own business.

          Naturally. And not yours
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 28 December 2017 01: 40 New
            +2
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            There are some reasons to believe that all of the above is a shameless lie.

            There is some reason to believe that you are unsuccessful in choosing expressions. A lie (more precisely, a hunting tale) can be a story set out even by a participant in events when he describes circumstances that he does not know or does not have the right to disclose (tasks that Tambov performed during the 3rd BS, for example).
            The assumption that the other side’s perception of reality (“nobody knew about their presence in the immediate vicinity of the warrant,” “the British then thought they had encountered”) should be taken from its sources, not from the words “military expert Colonel Mikhail POLEZHAYEV” or even "The dad submariner told the Internet anonym in a private conversation" - this, you know, is a small methodological reference.

            However, it seems that I am again discussing hygiene. It’s not worth it, here you are right.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              28 December 2017 08: 17 New
              +1
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              However, it seems that I am again discussing hygiene. It’s not worth it, here you are right.

              Exactly. So do mercy, and return to the ethics of online communication. If you have a refutation, then fine, print it with at least a comment, and at least a separate article. If not, then there is no need for general talk, especially about intimate
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 28 December 2017 13: 41 New
                +2
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                ethics of online communication. If you have a rebuttal

                Excuse me, refutation of what? That?
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                history is mentioned very, very much where

                So it is true.
                That?
                after that, a Russian boat surfaced in the center of the warrant order for NATO ships, the patient was transferred from her to the British destroyer, and then to the hospital. Such a moving picture of the friendship of peoples was “spoiled” by the fact that the NATO squadron, generally speaking, conducted anti-submarine exercises, but until our submariners got in touch, no one knew about their presence in the immediate vicinity of the warrant ... The British counted then, that they were faced with the latest “Pike-B”, but it was a mistake: in fact, Tambov, a ship of Project 671RTM (K), asked for help, i.e. boat of the previous type.

                To do this, look for the source of history and shovel the English-language media of pre-Internet time. For what? Prove to you that a lot of lies on the Internet? I have nothing to do.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  28 December 2017 14: 16 New
                  +1
                  Listen, Cherry Nine.
                  I cite data from Russian-language sources. You state that "there are some reasons" to believe that they are incorrect. OK, I say, if you have such information, give a refutation.
                  In response, you write to me
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  To do this, look for the source of history and shovel the English-language media of pre-Internet time. For what?

                  From this I conclude that the “certain grounds” recommended by you are personally yours, based on nothing on the certainty that this could not be, because this could never be and you do not have any facts to support your point of view.
                  So, I’m telling you in a good way - you have your own point of view, so have it, even in all the poses of the kama-sutra. It's your right. But neither my thoughts nor my hygiene are interesting for you - that's why I urge you to observe the best traditions of Internet communication and speak in speeches only when you can confirm your thoughts by citing a source. Or honestly write that this is your IMHO
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 28 December 2017 14: 51 New
                    +1
                    Oh this
                    ethics of internet communication

                    A number of readers of your work have noticed that one of the episodes of your story smacks of Mrs. Everything would be fine, but you build on this episode the assumptions that are significant for your work. In the last part, you similarly (according to press statements) measured the noise of the SSBN.
                    You answered, I quote,
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    This story is mentioned very, very much where we say so - I have reason to trust her completely

                    In response to you, it seems to me that they have gently enough hinted that such an approach to sources discredits your interesting, in many respects, work. You preferred to discuss things not related to the episode with excessive, in my opinion, ardor. As I understand it, essentially you have nothing to add.

                    OK. We will remain at the level of "you have reason to trust the Internet"
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      28 December 2017 15: 54 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      A number of readers of your work have noticed that one of the episodes of your story smacks of Mrs.

                      Without citing anything other than their IMHO justification. And having made a "tempting" proposal - "why don't you, the author of the article, run around to import sites to dispel my doubts, otherwise I’m lazy myself"
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      Everything would be fine, but you build on this episode the assumptions essential for your work

                      In general, my assumptions are based not only and not so much on this episode as on the words of the designers and other quite responsible persons, as well as on the opinions of people I knew in the Navy who served.
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      In response to you, it seems to me, they hinted rather softly that such an approach to the sources compromises your interesting, in many respects, work

                      Well, I don’t think so, that seems to have made it clear. You can make up some kind of justified opinion on your own only by getting your hands on the noise data of all the recommended submarines + TTX of their HAK, which is generally a secret infa. Therefore, I always write - "according to open sources." And I’m not hiding what I’m making assumptions on. And each reader will decide for himself which of my assumptions to agree with, and which not
                      1. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 28 December 2017 17: 43 New
                        0
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And I’m not hiding what I’m making assumptions on. And each reader will decide for himself which of my assumptions to agree with, and which not


                        There are assumptions and assumptions ... There are a lot of assumptions in the article. There is your assessment of the state of the submarines, the terms of their repair or decommissioning, their approximate number and condition after the Nth number of years, funding, etc. These assumptions are based on sources of real or realistic , on knowledge, common sense and therefore no one in their right mind disputes them. You can evaluate them more optimistic or vice versa, more pessimistic, as you yourself said.


                        And the “assumption” about Tambov is out of this series. It is not based on anything serious. It’s just a bike walking on an Internet, without any source. A la Khibiny vs D. Cook. No official “biographies” of Tambov talk about this episode. There are no facts from sworn friends either. There is nothing at least minimally reliable, which would indicate this.


                        But there are all signs of fake and the lack of the source, and the fact that the story walks on dozens of not very serious sites in the same form right up to commas.


                        And to demand proofs to refute this kind of tales is a bit of a cheating technique. They cannot exist in nature, because there was no fact as such.
          2. Town Hall
            Town Hall 28 December 2017 03: 14 New
            0
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            This story is mentioned very, very much where we say so - I have reason to trust her completely




            Unfortunately you spoil almost all of your articles, in which there are a lot of solid and serious factual material, with such lyrical digressions in the form of hunting tales, unconfirmed by any more or less serious sources.



            And if it were limited only to give “pepper” to the material, God bless them. But, unfortunately, based on these fables, you draw unreasonable far-reaching conclusions. In this case, about “overtaking” Soviet submarines in terms of low noise and so on.

            These failures in reinforcing part of the conclusions with serious arguments, rather than tales, blur the impression of the article as a whole. A classic fly in the ointment which spoils the rest of the article.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              28 December 2017 08: 18 New
              +2
              Quote: Town Hall
              Unfortunately you spoil almost all of your articles

              You will not be forcibly sweet. I'm sorry, but I will continue to "spoil" them in the future.
              1. Town Hall
                Town Hall 28 December 2017 17: 27 New
                0
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Quote: Town Hall
                Unfortunately you spoil almost all of your articles

                You will not be forcibly sweet. I'm sorry, but I will continue to "spoil" them in the future.


                Master-master ... I will continue to point out frankly weak points hi
  27. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 27 December 2017 21: 01 New
    0
    I think that it is necessary to bring the life of the boat to 50 years by modernizing, and at the same time increase the construction of new boats
  28. Olrov2010
    Olrov2010 28 December 2017 11: 40 New
    0
    I myself served 1974-77, to the point of loss (1 campaign), and the communists had money, we received the BDR later, at 76m, so there was still a cloud all over, and now all the money WHERE ......
    State capitalism is called. Look at the history of Russia at the beginning of the 20th century all around .... Here you have the money. And glory to the Molotov plant, and thanks to all the hard workers. They know how to do it!
  29. looker-on
    looker-on 28 December 2017 17: 27 New
    0
    Quote: Rurikovich
    The decaying socialist USSR had an order of magnitude more power and finance than a prosperous democratic Russia.
    Draw conclusions


    With the deepest respect for you as an authoritative expert of the WHO-USSR, it was an order of magnitude more true. Fleet. Army. Space.Sports. Only here the citizens of the USSR had an order of magnitude less. And they didn’t have much at all. Maybe for the better, but no one asked them. And when there is no choice, this is the worst that can be. I will never tire of repeating: I don’t care how many submarines my country has and where we are in the World, if I have the opportunity to work to earn money and be optimistic about my future and the future of my family. If for this you do not need a single submarine, good. Many countries live well with a very modest military budget. And not at all small countries. Canada, for example, can be compared with Russia. And it’s not true that just the nuclear submarines and “we are the very first” provide a good life for our citizens and the future doesn’t provide even once. The USSR proved it perfectly. And Britain has proven. Spain too. And all empires except (so far) America. The childhood memories of the USSR No. 1 (well, No. 2 in something) in the World. And what ??? Queues. From grocery to children's world. Deficit (from toilet paper and books ... attention! Neither Pikul nor Pushkin, even in the well-fed years in the USSR, would you simply buy a thieves or queues for import. Did you want to read Bulgakov? Yes, figs! Did you conceive a vehicle? - turn for 5 years (a copy of the packard or fiat to choose from.) What is the greatness of such a country? In submarines? Thanks, this is not my choice. I am much more proud of Russia than the USSR. I only expressed my humble opinion. With the coming.
    1. Grafova Irina
      Grafova Irina 1 January 2018 14: 25 New
      0
      What stupidity is stated ...
  30. AB0877
    AB0877 28 December 2017 18: 52 New
    0
    “Listen! I’ll tell you one clever thing, but don’t be offended!” (c) film "Mimino"
    In order to use their main weapon at a distance close to the limit, the Anteyam needs external target designation, which is not so easy to obtain and not so easy to send to a submarine. In the USSR, for this purpose, the system of sea space reconnaissance and target designation Legend and target designation aircraft Tu-95РЦ were used. But “make friends” satellites with submarines did not work, because too much should be done too quickly: find the target with a satellite, classify it, calculate target designation, transfer it to the submarine ... In theory, it all worked fine, but in practice it regularly crashed . A "carcass", built in 1962 year and on duty obliged without fighter cover to operate in an area controlled by enemy carrier-based aircraft, had few chances to complete the task.

    I leaned slightly against the Legend, or rather, its US-A components and a full-featured ground control system (I remember the GRAU index even now). So, "Legend" went into operation = it was adopted long before the 949 project and was "friends" not only with submarines, but also with other complexes, including and ground based. It was developed precisely as an alternative to airborne target designation (insanely expensive in peacetime and almost meaningless in a special period). The failure (in my memory) was 2:
    1. when the 6th fleet, led by the AUG, "shifted" to the Sahara region (failure of the board synchronization system and ground control point)
    2. an error in the classification of a group target in ... one of the northern seas.
    Plus one accident with the fall of the reactor core in the desert regions of Canada. An error in the orientation system when reducing the spent side from orbit.
    They were taken out of service for a completely different reason, the Americans managed to push Gorbachev to ban the presence of spacecraft with nuclear power plants in space.
    According to experts (both ours and foreign), Legenda (including the US-P, a radio intelligence intelligence satellite) was ahead of American developments by a minimum of 10-12 years. You can see the effectiveness of the complex (a reflection of the operational situation) during the Falkland Crisis, and it’s better to study the book published in ~ 2002 in St. Petersburg.
    Something like this.
    PS A-50 as a target designation system for AUG has never really been considered (based on the performance characteristics), not to mention all sorts of “over-the-horizon” ones.
  31. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 1 February 2018 14: 50 New
    0
    And why can’t you sell boats, the modernization of which is impractical, to some banana Argentines, thereby obtaining funds for the expansion of construction and repair capacities? It can even be upgraded in accordance with the requirements of customers - in exchange for capital investment in our industry. Let the monkeys pay. At the same time, we’ll get rid of the smut with disposal.
  32. Nemchinov Vl
    Nemchinov Vl April 13 2018 13: 48 New
    0
    Considering the high cost of the Ash trees (and consequently their low construction speed), 3-4 more 971M (Cheetah type) should be built at the Amur plant for Pacific Fleet, and then as they leave the stocks and transfer the fleet to 885m (Kazan and the next) 2-3 units in Sevmash can be quickly built for the Northern Fleet, otherwise the "gap" with boats by the "hunters" is really too big.