Military Review

The degradation of the military industrial complex of Ukraine: why the Ukrainian military do not like their new tanks

56



It would seem that the new modern tank should always be better than the old one, and the new BTR, developed taking into account the latest trends, is a priori better than the old 30-year-old iron. In the APU, this rule does not work. There, everything is evaluated exactly the opposite.

Why is the old T-64 better than the "new" BM "Bulat"

“In general, the reserve of equipment is still large, but all this equipment is outdated, and the potential for modernization is almost exhausted. Some upgrade options fail in real combat. For instance, Tanks Due to their heavy weight and weak engine, the T-64BM “Bulat” turned out to be ineffective, were transferred to the reserve and replaced by linear T-64s ”(deputy commander of the Ground Forces of the Armed Forces for Logistics, Major General Yuri Tolochny).

So why does Yuri Tolochny consider the good old T-64, or rather, one of his latest light versions of the upgrade (T-64B1М), more in-demand than the Bulat BM, which is rightfully considered the best version of the modernization of this Soviet tank?



No, of course, the question is not maneuverability. On the T-64B1M tank there is an 5TDF engine with a capacity of 700 l. with. On the basic version of BM “Bulat” - a forced version of the same 5TDFM engine with a capacity of 850 l. with. Probably, General Tolochny compares “Bulat” with T-64BM1М, on which the 6TD engine is installed, with a capacity of 1000 l. with. But this is incorrect, because if you like, you can put the exact same engine on Bulat BM if the customer has that desire.

So, it's not all about maneuverability, but the fact that T-64B1М and T-64BM1М tanks are completed from the APU warehouses with spare parts and weights, inherited from the USSR, and for Bulat Bulat BM it is necessary to produce partially new and expensive equipment.

Actually, that is why in 2014, Kiev, and focused on these two main versions of the modernization of the tank. All that was needed for them was in the warehouses and did not require costs.

On the contrary, it was still possible to make very good money on such upgrades. Criminal cases against the directors of the Ukrainian armored factories, where such schemes of drinking and drinking of military budgets have emerged en masse, are proof of that.

It is ridiculous. The plant sold spare parts to a front company and bought them from the next one, but as new ones. And the parts themselves never left the territory of the "native" plant.

With tanks, I think, everything is clear. But here, the APU is more or less well. At the very least, Soviet stocks still exist, and in the campaigns of 2014-15. tanks were destroyed much less frequently than lightly armored vehicles. This detective begins when you begin to dive into the details of the production of such machines by Ukrainian factories.

And having understood, you immediately begin to understand the feelings of the Kiev soldiers, who do not like these new models very much.

It's all about armor and trunks

In fact, Kiev has one problem. Technological degradation. All other troubles are its derivative. The fact is that in Ukraine they have forgotten how to roll good armor. As a result, all new Ukrainian armored personnel carriers and armored cars have the same problem.

For the first time it was revealed during the implementation of the so-called Iraqi contract under Yanukovych. One of the batches of new armored personnel carriers BTR-4, the Iraqi military simply refused to accept, as they had cracks in the hull (and a lot of other problems).



After long attempts to shove in the untied and ordeals of Ukrainian politicians and diplomats, these cars turned out to be in the Donbas, where the war had just begun. And here they gained a lot of ridicule from their own and the enemy. The cars were covered with cracks and did not hold the bullets of the usual rifle weapons, often broke. In a word, they “sabotaged” the conduct of hostilities and behaved like real “agents of the Kremlin” and accomplices of the “separatists”.

As a result of the first battles, it became clear that the machines required a radical modernization.

By the way, similar problems were manifested not only in the ill-fated BTR-3 and BTR-4, but also in all Ukrainian new armored vehicles issued under contracts of the Ministry of Defense, starting with 2014. Everywhere armor did not hold bullets, and everywhere it had to be strengthened. And the gain was due to weight gain. As a result, the suspension could not stand and broke, and the cars themselves from floating became purely land.

To regain the buoyancy of the weighted hulls in the latest versions of the BTR-4, they even invented additional floats ...

In general, only one, but an important technological problem has turned the once glorious branch of the military-industrial complex of Ukraine into a mockery.

By the way, the same thing happens in Kiev with trunks. You know what kind of casing around the barrel of a standard Soviet 30-mm cannon?



His task is to stabilize the barrel, because without it the gun shoots anywhere. The root of this problem is the same. There is no corresponding grade of steel from which it is possible to make high-quality trunks. And so everywhere. As soon as you begin to study the next Kiev know-how in the field of tank building, you come across the consequences of the technical degradation of the industry.

It is noteworthy that the trunks of large calibers in Ukraine do not produce. And also for the very reason. After all, the tank 125-mm cannon can not be taken into the casing, and without it it will shoot anywhere, but not at the target.

An example from life. The author of these lines perfectly remembers the story of one of his friends, who participated in the testing of 125-mm tank barrels made in 1990-x at the Sumy Pipe Plant for tanks of the Pakistani contract. Even then, literally after the collapse of the USSR, the citizens of Sumy could not get a gun with the desired characteristics. The barrel vitality in 2-3 was lower than Soviet samples, and Pakistani customers did not want to accept such a product. From the situation out simply. From the warehouses they took the necessary number of old trunks, and there they put in exchange products of Sumy machine-builders.



When in the 2014, Kiev decided to try to restore the production of at least such "guns", it turned out that there were no more specialists or corresponding technologies in production. Therefore, the citizens of Sumy today do not make guns for the ATO. They can not. And so in Ukraine now everywhere. No technology, no high-quality military equipment.

I think it is now clear why today military equipment samples that have been preserved and modernized from Soviet warehouses are so highly valued in the composition of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And you do not need to be a great analyst to predict that, as soon as the last reserves of the former USSR are fully chosen, the fighting power of this army will begin to fall. Rather, it is already falling, judging by the statements of the Ukrainian military, and this has not yet been observed in an explicit form only because Donbass has not been conducting active military operations for the third year already.
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  1. Vitas
    Vitas 15 December 2017 06: 45 New
    20
    Alas, using things from the USSR, you understand what you did better before! And this concerns not only the military-industrial complex and not only Ukraine.
    1. bistrov.
      bistrov. 15 December 2017 07: 58 New
      15
      Quote: Vitas
      using things from the USSR, you understand what used to be better

      I completely agree. Of course, household appliances and electronics have stepped forward since then, but I still have Soviet furniture with natural veneer, modern furniture is not suitable for it and the chipboard is much thinner and weaker and the “veneer” synthetics falls off immediately. I recall Soviet suits made of natural wool with special pleasure, everyone could afford them then, now only the rich. The sole on the shoes was either genuine leather or micropore, it didn’t slip on snow and ice, and in modern polyurethane it was walking under these conditions ,almost impossible.
      And technical discipline has so weakened that rockets are already falling, not to mention simpler products. This is nothing but the general decline of society, a consequence of the influx of "economists" who do not understand the damn thing in the economy, lawyers who are yelling about violation of rights, and other "managers" and the wrong ideology. General irresponsibility and impunity. So the state doesn’t spar for long.

      It is necessary to restore order and discipline with a stiff hand everywhere, to return the death penalty, while the upper ranks are sobering and resting on their laurels.
      1. Vitas
        Vitas 15 December 2017 08: 14 New
        19
        As one joke said: I bought furniture. Brought home, and this is FURNITURE. They do everything to grow a consumer society. People have ceased to value things, we’ll buy it, it’s China, it’s an old model ... The refrigerator worked for 10 years (Samsung), the master said that they were designed like that, it’s cheaper to buy a new one than repair. And the Soviet has been working in the country for 40 years ...
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 15 December 2017 16: 07 New
          +3
          As one joke said: I bought furniture. Brought home, and this is FURNITURE.

          Very correctly noticed. good
          At home I do not have time to change the bulbs. This is a society not of consumption, but of consumer ... DST!
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 15 December 2017 16: 52 New
            +4
            Quote: lexus
            At home I do not have time to change the bulbs.

            This is not because the bulbs are bad, but due to the fact that they want to take denyuzhku from you network, but to make modifications to seriously increased loads, no. For a snack steals degree, sorry, expenses profit.
            And even super-quality bulbs with a 10-year warranty will also “burn” you due to constant power surges. They do not like this. Actually, this applies to everything electric that you supply directly, and not through a good stabilizer.
            1. Evgeny Strygin
              Evgeny Strygin 15 December 2017 17: 49 New
              +3
              let me shake hands - for some reason it does not reach anyone. And a month later from the educational program the same person speaks about all the same worthless bulbs. Although at times at his home color music plays due to power surges in the phase.
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 15 December 2017 18: 18 New
                +6
                Clear. Voltage stabilizers, water filters, do not buy food in stores ... Walking in a gas mask.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 15 December 2017 22: 50 New
                  +4
                  Theoretically, everything is decided through the courts. Because there are standards for water, and for electricity, and for air.
                  But. Realistically affect the monopolists can only be such a situation when the costs and payments in court will exceed the "profit" from failure to meet standards. That is, there should be a lot of lawsuits. And people who are ready to defend their rights in the judiciary. What the system is designed for.
                  So either negotiate with a hundred neighbors, or stabilizers
                  1. Bad_gr
                    Bad_gr 12 June 2018 18: 57 New
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    Because there are standards for water, and for electricity, and for air.

                    On electricity.
                    How can you prove that the output of your home equipment is associated with poor quality electricity?
                    Who is involved in the quality control of electricity?
                    Practical examples are desirable.
                2. Evgeny Strygin
                  Evgeny Strygin 16 December 2017 08: 08 New
                  0
                  living in general is harmful.
            2. ihnovich990
              ihnovich990 16 December 2017 09: 13 New
              +2
              Yes, yes, that's just the Soviet refrigerator, and the 1998 Melissa teapot is plowed without any stabilizers.
      2. mac789
        mac789 15 December 2017 11: 24 New
        +6
        To introduce the death penalty? ... Well, well ... These tops will shoot you first. Novocherkassk...
        1. 97110
          97110 15 December 2017 13: 53 New
          +6
          Quote: mac789
          Novocherkassk...

          This power has nothing to do with Novochek. Or is it really necessary to write something nasty about the Bolsheviks? What "bloody Sunday" did not remember? People went to the king-priest to complain about the bad attitude of the “masters” to the faithful slaves, and their guards met with three-line salvos ... Today, the same “masters” are organizing the system from the Rosguards. Or Cossacks from the Cossack squad ... That’s not so good with the Cossacks. They would have talked about it, but a little penny is dripping for duty, the form is again, and there is not much else to say. They may refuse to class their own whips to beat for the benefit of class aliens.
          1. mac789
            mac789 15 December 2017 19: 31 New
            +1
            Has no relationship ... And who appointed her? Maybe you think she was chosen?
            1. 97110
              97110 16 December 2017 10: 51 New
              +3
              Quote: mac789
              And who appointed her?

              Abramovich? Prokhorov? Who has forgotten from appointing Mikita the miracle worker? You confuse, dear, New owners of the country. If it will be necessary to fight for capital, News will seem a struggle in the sandbox. There the real democrats in the middle of the year before last, the Chartists were admonished with heavy cavalry. Broadsword - it is better than a nut, in the English enlightened opinion.
              1. mac789
                mac789 16 December 2017 11: 16 New
                0
                Found someone to remember. Two zitspredatey. The country has no new owners. All the same old. Or their successors. But what the group was, the same remained.
      3. alexmach
        alexmach 15 December 2017 19: 49 New
        +6
        Well, it’s not necessary to distort so much. Modern shoes are much better than old ones. Including due to the use of technological materials. Soviet-made furniture is also a pleasure. Of course the veneer there is natural and high-quality chipboard, but the design of this furniture and variety leave much to be desired.
    2. Chertt
      Chertt 15 December 2017 08: 00 New
      0
      Quote: Vitas
      using things from the USSR

      In the article, the old reserves of the USSR are mentioned several times. But there were many articles (in my opinion and in VO) that it was all over. ?
      1. bistrov.
        bistrov. 15 December 2017 08: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: Chertt
        that it's over.

        Yes, apparently, there is still enough, especially all kinds of small arms and ammunition.
        1. Vitas
          Vitas 15 December 2017 08: 33 New
          +2
          On ammunition, the general complained that little remained. Rifle is still full. But with technology it’s more difficult, not all canned foods are already good. If you make home-made rivets, ask volunteers for supplies, the 157th Zily appear in the troops, deliveries of junk from behind the hill, then there is almost no equipment on the remains.



      2. Romka47
        Romka47 15 December 2017 16: 10 New
        +1
        there is enough for a very, very long time. At the very least, it is hoped that everything will end and that they simply will not have anything to fight. They will replenish (and are already replenishing) stocks of both barrels and ammunition from the countries of the former Warsaw Pact. enough for another 10 years of active hostilities.
  2. Strashila
    Strashila 15 December 2017 06: 58 New
    +1
    I’d like to answer ... you just don’t know how to cook them ... if the thrust is not enough to properly control the machine and establish interaction with other units, any tank will not be loved by them.
  3. Mik13
    Mik13 15 December 2017 07: 32 New
    20
    Do you know what this casing is around the barrel of a standard Soviet 30-mm gun? Its task is to stabilize the barrel, since without it the gun shoots anywhere. The root of this problem is the same. There is no corresponding steel grade from which it is possible to make high-quality trunks.

    This is not a "standard Soviet gun." Standard could be called 2A42. And this is 2A72. The gun has a scheme of operation of automation based on the use of recoil energy of the barrel during its long course. To date, the scheme is quite exotic.
    The accuracy of a gun without a front support is quite low precisely because of the movable barrel.
    The first time the gun was mounted on the BMP-3, paired with the 100 mm gun 2A70.

    It should be noted that the use of low-quality (or inappropriate) steels in the manufacture of the barrel will not lead at all to the fact that the barrel will bend during firing, but to the fact that its life will decrease significantly.
    So, for example, the resource of the gun barrel 2A42 - 6000 shots. And through 3000 it is necessary to replace the reciprocating spring with a new one (goes to the spare parts for the gun). If the barrel is made of steel of a different brand (or at least allow rejects during heat treatment), the barrel resource will drop to 500 shots and less due to the degradation of rifling. No additional support will, of course, solve this problem.
    1. Meliodous
      Meliodous 15 December 2017 10: 07 New
      +1
      And how do our BTR-82a solve this problem with a gun? Also put casings?
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 15 December 2017 10: 43 New
        +8
        Quote: Meliodous
        And how do our BTR-82a solve this problem with a gun? Also put casings?

        As Denis Mokrushin wrote, according to first-hand information, we simply reduced the rate of fire of the guns.
        Low accuracy of firing from a gun 2A72 BTR-82A - fairy tales. Yes, for more than a year, designers have worked to ensure an acceptable result: accuracy and accuracy should not be lower than that of 2A42 on the BMP-2. Without fulfilling this condition prescribed in the statement of work, the car was not taken into service. One machine was even made with a third fulcrum: a casing on top of the gun with a ring at the end where the barrel goes.
        But it didn’t help much either. The solution was found after watching ultra-fast shooting shooting. Some time after the shot, the gun barrel takes its initial position, so the rate of fire was adjusted so that the next shot occurred at that moment. Yes, the maximum rate of fire became slightly lower than what is indicated in the tabular values ​​for 2A72, but sufficient to solve the same problems.

        But the question - why did they put 2A72, and not 2A42, remained unanswered ...
        1. Mik13
          Mik13 15 December 2017 11: 04 New
          +8
          Quote: Alexey RA
          But the question - why did they put 2A72, and not 2A42, remained unanswered ...

          Well firstly, 2A72 is a bit lighter.
          And secondly, she has several times less maximum recoil force due to the automation scheme. For light armored vehicles relevant.
          2A42 is much better in combat capabilities.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 15 December 2017 11: 19 New
            +1
            Quote: Mik13
            And secondly, she has several times less maximum recoil force due to the automation scheme. For light armored vehicles relevant.

            That is, it turns out that in the module with 2A72 only the gun barrel "walks", and in the module with 2A42 the whole gun will "walk" (as in the famous GIF from BTR-4), or even the module as a whole.
            1. Mik13
              Mik13 15 December 2017 12: 00 New
              +4
              Quote: Alexey RA
              That is, it turns out that in the module with 2A72 only the gun barrel "walks", and in the module with 2A42 the whole gun will "walk"
              That's right. In 2A42 all the recoil energy acts on the machine in a very short moment of the shot. The exposure time is short, but the power is long. In 2A72 at the time of the shot, all the recoil energy is perceived by the barrel and the bolt, which begin to roll back. Accordingly, the machine will perceive the recoil energy for a longer time - the rollback time, the maximum force will be less. For light equipment, this is true.
          2. seos
            seos 15 December 2017 13: 13 New
            0
            It is unclear why they set the BMP-3 2A72 ..
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 15 December 2017 13: 38 New
              +6
              Quote: seos
              It is unclear why they set the BMP-3 2A72 ..

              With BMP-3 just everything is clear. On it, the 2A72 barrel has an additional attachment point - a movable sleeve almost at the muzzle end - which reduces the barrel’s vibrations to almost zero:
  4. Strashila
    Strashila 15 December 2017 07: 40 New
    +3
    Israeli military psychologists have deduced the pattern of military refusal to attack when a certain amount of losses is achieved ... this pattern can be traced in Ukraine. What Kiev broadcasts about the losses is one thing, but what the military sees on the spot is another.
  5. Popovich
    Popovich 15 December 2017 07: 57 New
    +7
    today the sumskins do not make guns for the ATO - and word to god!
    1. Antares
      Antares 15 December 2017 12: 19 New
      +1
      Quote: Popovich
      today the sumskins do not make guns for the ATO - and word to god!

      Above we talked about the products of the Ukrainian counterpart, and it is produced by the "Scientific and Technical Complex" Precision Mechanics Plant "(Kamenetz-Podolsky)
      The state enterprise "Scientific and Technical Complex" Precision Mechanics Plant "for the month produced a record 35 units of guns ZTM1 and ZTM2.
      According to the press service of Ukroboronprom, the plant also shipped spare parts for the ZTM2 gun in the amount of 100 sets and more than 30 thousand units in automatic guns. These indicators are the absolute production record of the enterprise in the entire history of its existence.
      1. eburg1234
        eburg1234 15 December 2017 21: 21 New
        0
        In Sumy, they tried to make tank barrels, even during the contract for the T-80UD for Pakistan.
        1. Antares
          Antares 16 December 2017 14: 19 New
          +1
          Quote: eburg1234
          tank barrels

          tank barrels of guns - a separate topic (just Sumy)
          I'm about
          2A42. And this is 2A72
          supplemented. Everything is in order with production.
  6. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 15 December 2017 08: 18 New
    +4
    And why are Selyuk, Roguly and farmers high technology? For them, the most important thing is to indulge in a mov, wear an embroidered shirt and dance a hopak. These three things are objects of national pride for them. What about high technology? Phi! This lesson is for m ... lei! And we will dance hopak, sing folk songs on a singing mov, wear an embroidered shirt and be proud of it wassat .
  7. BAI
    BAI 15 December 2017 09: 30 New
    +4
    in all Ukrainian new armored vehicles, issued under the contracts of the Ministry of Defense, starting in 2014. Everywhere armor did not hold a bullet, and everywhere it had to be strengthened

    Well, it's very good!
  8. leonardo_1971
    leonardo_1971 15 December 2017 10: 10 New
    +3
    Recently, my mother-in-law presented a shelf for clothes made back in the USSR, she was lying in the packaging in the country, I’ll tell you this quality! Everything is lapped, aluminum hooks, good steel, etc., now I can’t find such a thing in the afternoon!
  9. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 15 December 2017 10: 49 New
    +1
    After long attempts to shove the inextricable and the ordeals of Ukrainian politicians and diplomats, these cars were in the Donbass, where the war had just begun. And here they won a lot of ridicule from their side and the enemy. The cars were covered with cracks and did not hold bullets of ordinary small arms, often broke.

    EMNIP, with the armored personnel carrier of the "Iraqi order" in Ukraine it was even more interesting. They wrote that in fact in the troops these machines were very much appreciated - since in comparison with machines of new release They were of high quality. laughing
    1. Meliodous
      Meliodous 15 December 2017 12: 10 New
      0
      Those. Is production a problem at all? They seem to be cooking them from the buildings of the old BTR-70. Are the corps over?
  10. Twodi
    Twodi 15 December 2017 13: 51 New
    +1
    The production of high-tech weapons is not just picked up and made. It has been developed for decades. And having lost at least one industry, it is not possible to get a good example. Look at China, they have everything except material science ... They don’t know how to do metal, and here is the result. Even military developments have a resource much lower than Soviet ones, not to mention aircraft engines and other high-tech and high-tech industries. But Ukraine has lost almost everything, and on the fragments of the Soviet empire it is trying to show that it is a great weapon power ...
  11. Vasily Krylov
    Vasily Krylov 15 December 2017 13: 55 New
    +2
    I read the comments and didn’t understand. What are you comrades about? The modern state of Ukraine is our enemy, not Ukraine, but the state of Ukraine. And you are trying to consider technical problems in isolation from politics. I don’t understand. It’s just a circle Och "skillful hands.
  12. arhPavel
    arhPavel 15 December 2017 13: 57 New
    0
    How instructive, but there are countries .. Poland, Hungary, Romania .. and Bulgaria, and how do they get out of this situation?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 17 December 2017 00: 29 New
      +1
      To get out of this situation it is necessary: ​​1) to develop a civilian economy 2) to earn money on this 3) for this money to buy licenses or finished military products (or parts thereof).
      Someone didn’t succeed (Bulgaria), someone did it - Poland.
  13. alexxxz
    alexxxz 15 December 2017 14: 05 New
    0
    “After all, you can’t take a tank 125 mm cannon into the casing” - the author, kill yourself against the wall! Already barrel 2A46 was in the casing. What to say about its more modern modifications? The general meaning of the article is that in Ukraine, everyone was blown away. So it is and so everyone knows! Why repeat banal and vulgar vulgarities? What is new for the reader in this work? PS Gun casings around the world are put on casings to ensure that they are warmed up uniformly, and not because the author writes.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 15 December 2017 15: 50 New
      +4
      Quote: alexxxz
      “After all, you can’t take a tank 125 mm cannon into the casing” - the author, kill yourself against the wall! Already barrel 2A46 was in the casing. What to say about its more modern modifications?

      Auto is simply inaccurate in the wording. What he calls the "casing" is actually a power cage supporting the barrel of the 2A72 gun. And in some cases it really looks like a casing:

      For a 125 mm gun, such a frame would be a rather ... exotic solution. smile
  14. gespenst45
    gespenst45 15 December 2017 14: 13 New
    +5
    In 1964, in our city of Chudovo, the ZhBSh plant was launched for the production of reinforced concrete sleepers, but Hungarian equipment was supplied to it, which had a completely different system of IP, MEASUREMENTS and STANDARDIZATIONS, not metric or inch, so our men are hard workers (locksmiths, turners) managed to combine the Hungarian equipment with ours, the Soviet one, and start the plant on time !!! There were some talents !!! And the sleepers made by our plant could withstand even the load of the STILET system missiles, which were launched directly from w / q paintings !!!! Americans are terrified of our STYLET systems until now !!! Because we can launch from any railway dead end, even in the wilderness, and rockets will fly in the right direction !!! That's how they did in the USSR! !!! And the guns with the tanks, as they say - GOD MYSELF BELIEVED !!!
    1. Popovich
      Popovich 15 December 2017 21: 19 New
      0
      at one time there was very good CAD (still under DOS) but there, everything was inch ... (2,54mm drawing grid per cell ....) thinking We just started to consider 2.54 = 2.5 and everything worked fine ....
  15. Young_Communist
    Young_Communist 15 December 2017 21: 50 New
    0
    The tanks are Soviet, but they like their own, native, Ukrainian crafts:
  16. alex-sherbakov48
    alex-sherbakov48 15 December 2017 22: 25 New
    +1
    But they (dill) have now bought lace panties in the West !!!
  17. radiola
    radiola 16 December 2017 06: 07 New
    0
    Probably the "thermostabilizing casing" ...
    "Thermal shield of the barrel a thin-walled shell made of metal or nonmetallic materials, mounted on the outer surface of the barrel in order to reduce the effect of uneven heating and cooling on the stability of the gun’s battle".
  18. pro100y.belarus
    pro100y.belarus 16 December 2017 08: 42 New
    0
    Armor ... guns ... But they shoot. And they are killing.
    "Yellow-black" flags, tridents, and more recently, crosses on armored vehicles. Some kind of stupid mixture of Petliura, Bandera and fascist-German characters.
    Hmmm ... Not brothers ...
  19. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 17 December 2017 00: 33 New
    0
    The author simply "fulfills" the topic. Using the hackneyed theses on the Iraqi order and so on. Why isn’t the video showing how the militia, examining the wrecked and captured BTR-4, does not believe that it was made in Ukraine, why doesn’t it mention that the BTR-3 is made in more than 500 pieces and is in service with eight countries surpassed our BTR-82a in export potential. And about inaccurate shooting from the Ukrainian 30 mm gun it is better to talk with militias. True, not everyone can refute ...
    And how many new armored personnel carriers destroyed the militia? Personally, I counted 5 - “fours” and three “triples”. Not bad for a bad technique ...
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 18 December 2017 10: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      For some reason, the video about how the militia, considering the wrecked and captured BTR-4 does not believe that it was made in Ukraine, is not being laid out

      Probably because it is made on Ukraine. smile
      Seriously, after the militia handed out the T-72B3 they had beaten back to a tank “delivered to Ukraine from abroad,” I am not surprised at anything.
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      for some reason, it’s not mentioned that the BTR-3 was manufactured in an amount of more than 500 pieces and is in service with eight countries, and it exceeded our BTR-82a in terms of export potential

      But to name these countries and the number of BTR-3 in them is weak? wink
      Out of 8 countries, only 3 - Nigeria, the UAE and Thailand - purchased BTR-3 in any significant quantities. Moreover, in February 2017, there was information that the UAE was moving to a new armored personnel carrier, which they were going to produce together with the Turks.
      In Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Myanmar, Sudan and Chad, the number of BTR-3 varies from 2 to 10 per country.
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      And about inaccurate shooting from the Ukrainian 30 mm gun, it is better to talk with militias. True, not everyone can refute ...

      Are you sure that the militias will be able to accurately identify who fired at them: 2A72 with an armored personnel carrier or 2A42 with an infantry fighting vehicle?
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 18 December 2017 20: 32 New
        +1
        I’m sure that many deceased militiamen (rest in peace) will disagree with the author that the military-industrial complex of Ukraine is degrading ...
        Well, what about the BTR-82 operators, it’s not clear at all - in addition to Russia, 70 pieces were delivered to Kazakhstan, and Syria and Azeibardzhan some amount.
  20. nekromonger
    nekromonger 16 March 2018 19: 19 New
    +1
    this is all in Russia, much has already been lost, and young people cannot be dragged into production even in tow.