Military Review

Under the gun

102
It is believed that Russia was not ready for the coming World War I, especially in the issues of mobilization of the national economy. But is it only Russia? An interesting French report "The use of labor - military and civilian" came into our hands. It contains detailed information on a number of events in France from 1 August 1914 to 31 December 1917 - to provide defense plants with labor, to monitor the correctness of its use, to work conditions, etc. And, judging according to the report, and the French were in this respect not without sin. They also had to improvise and, in the course of their work, correct unsuccessful approaches to solving this important and difficult issue.


Before 1 August 1914, it was assumed that the military supplies of the French army would be provided by state (military) factories. Private industry was supposed to supply, in the main, military factories with raw materials only.

From 1912, military plants were established, with the postponement of the call-up of their full-time staff, and from 1913, the postponement of the call was also provided for the personnel of private factories who worked for the army. 1 people worked at military factories for 1914 in August 34500, and only 12500 people were released from conscription.

20 September 1914 was the mobilization of private industry for the needs of defense, and two weeks later the question of withdrawing qualified workers from the army to work in defense was resolved.

By the middle of May 1915, the personnel of military plants reached 71000 people, and private factories working for defense - 242000 people.

In May, 1915 established the post of deputy minister for military supplies, and in June, a Department of Labor was established with it. Through the Department, the army was recalled to the 213800 factories of skilled workers. Subsequently, a personal review was replaced by an application for recall of a certain number of persons of relevant qualifications - and an 345000 person was released from military service.

By 1 in January, 1918. 1116 officers, mostly former breeders, engineers, workshop heads and craftsmen, after careful inspection, were attached to military factories - for technical work (without the right to wear a uniform).

The number of workers recruited into the army, but left to work in defense enterprises, constantly fluctuated: for example, 1 in January, 1916, there were 344850 people (107100 in state-owned military factories and 237750 in July 1) - 1916 people (503930 and 155870 respectively), and 348060 December 31 g. - 1917 people (528250 and 115500 respectively).

Through the Workforce Division, 1 June 1918 was used to recruit unmilitary 20840 and crippled 14350 - a total of 35190 people used exclusively in the private defense industry. In addition, through the authorities of the Ministry of Labor and Interior Affairs, non-military and injured workers have been brought into the private defense industry 20000. Owing to the transfer of these workers from one enterprise to another, industrial enterprises often experienced great difficulties - and it was even supposed to assign workers to factories.

Before the war, in military production, female labor was used only in state-owned factories - in total, by the beginning of the war, 4800 female workers were working there. After the announcement of mobilization, another 8400 women workers appeared. Since August 1915, more than 40000 women workers have been recruited to work in defense factories through the Metalworkers' Bureau and the Labor Department. Most of the workers were hired by the factories themselves. The workforce department gradually made factories increasingly employ female labor - and the results exceeded all expectations. Starting with the application of female labor in the field of accounting and control, it was gradually expanded to include turning and assembly work. Since July 1916, due to the prohibition to use the labor of those liable for military service for those jobs where it is possible to use female labor, the latter has been widely used even in heavy work - women became assistants to blacksmiths, foundry workers, and even workers in manufacturing aviation motors (drilling, turning and milling). The number of women workers in military industries increased from 13000 (at the beginning of the war) to 400000 (by January 1, 1918).

The labor of foreigners was also used. Source: militarization and hiring of colonial workers, hiring European refugees (mainly Greeks - 12400 people), inviting workers of Portuguese, Italians and Spaniards (all around 12000 people) and using labor of captured workers (34000 people). Most of the prisoners were sent for agricultural work. The use of foreign labor was difficult - especially for Indians, Arabs and Chinese, for whose leadership special organizations had to be created. Arabs, as workers, did not justify the hopes placed on them.

The number of foreign workers was relatively small - by December 1917 in state-owned factories there was up to 10000 and in the private industry - up to 100000 foreigners.

Foreigners received the same wage with the French.

The number of adolescent workers in the second half of 1917 varied around the number of 110000 people.

The replenishment of the factories with labor of all categories went through the Department of Labor, the regional branches of which were in Paris, Lyon, Toulouse, Nantes. There were also regional depot metalworkers.

The liable for military service workers initially enjoyed a temporary deferment, but since May 1915, all deferrals have been eliminated and military liabilities, registered as a depot of their corps, were, as it were, seconded to the factories. In mid-August, 1915 was followed by the so-called Dablitz law, which establishes the assignment of persons liable for a specific factory and grants them the rights of non-military workers (wages, disability, pension), with the exception of privacy rights - in the latter case a special control by officers “watching the military workforce”. In addition, their connection with the corps was not interrupted - and they were under its control (information about such a worker was entered into special nominal cards).

Monitoring of military labor, established from 15 July 1915, was expressed in accounting, supervision of the correct use of the worker, correct working conditions, vacations, movements, supervision outside the work, consideration of claims, relations with trade unions, supervision of labor protection and pr. Observers were recruited from the labor inspectorate employees of labor inspection, and then replenished with maimed officers. If in November 1915 was supervised by 4419 enterprises, in December 1917 was 14325 enterprises.

Interesting numbers. Over 1916 - 1917 Observers registered accidents at 130682 subsidiaries (of which 454 are fatal).

Regardless of observing the military workforce, the control and inspection of the plants was carried out by numerous commissions and authorized persons. The government and the Ministry of War wanted not only to monitor the correct use of military service workers, but also to control them - so that only qualified workers whose presence was really necessary remained at the factories.

The laws of Dublin (1915) and Mourier (1917) provided for the formation of mixed commissions (on a parity basis) from employers and workers — chaired by a delegate from the War Department, such commissions monitored military service workers. Such commissions by October 1917 functioned 32.

In 1915, the exclusive right of the state was declared in resolving issues arising from the relationship between employers and military service workers. The main issue - wages - attracted particular attention and was decided by the state after preliminary mutual discussion with employers and workers.

By decree of 1917, special conciliation chambers were established, which consisted of two representatives of employers and two representatives of workers — both of them necessarily unmobilized.

Due to the increase in the working population of the cities, in connection with the deployment of the military industry, the Military Workforce Division was entrusted with all the concerns for improving the housing and food situation of the workers, creating cooperatives, etc. The state-owned factories should not only take care of the workers living with them, but also about the convenience of living their workers in private apartments. Watching the military workforce was made a duty to monitor the quartering and workers of the private military industry. In case of emergency requests from householders (requirements for rent exceeding normal norms), the company managers and observers informed the commanders of military districts of the names of such householders - and the latter’s premises were simply requisitioned for workers ’housing (with the definition of rent at normal rates).

Due to the continuous rise in food prices, special attention was paid to the opening of factory restaurants, food stalls and cooperatives. By May 1917, around 100000, workers and workers of the private defense industry were fed at 182 restaurants and the same number at 60 restaurants of state-owned factories. 81 grocery store was open to state-owned factories (and as many to private defense factories).

Charities, partly with workers delegates, fed more 150000 people to 162 restaurants and maintained 16 grocery stores with their own funds. The number of these institutions is constantly increasing. And then, in order to alleviate the food problem, the Minister of Supply established the Power Division of Military Plants - he was provided with working capital by the parliament, and he also raised considerable funds from enterprises and cooperatives.

In connection with the expansion of the use of women's work in defense work, the Women's Labor Committee was established in April 1916. His duties included consideration of all issues of hiring, paying, using, organizing female labor and improving the material and moral position of female workers.

In July, 1916 established a list of jobs where male labor was prohibited, and listed jobs that should be performed exclusively by women. Along with this, rules were introduced for the application of female labor (labor for 16-18-year-old girls), night work, leave for the time of mobilized husband leave, maternity protection, etc.

It was not until the end of 1917 that all the organizational work for the recruitment and use of labor for defense purposes was completed, and the Workforce Division was reorganized into the Labor Administration.

When in May –June 1918 Paris was under threat of the last German offensive, the Labor Office prepared a program for evacuating more 100000 mobilized workers in the Paris region to the east, and also developed a corresponding instruction approved by the Minister of Supply.

According to this instruction, all the mobilized workers were equated with military personnel, were obliged to obey all orders of the factory administration implicitly and could leave the factory only after the evacuation plan was completed. They could not leave the factory even in case of danger and, having received an order for care, they left as part of a detachment and under the command of their masters, engineers or directors. Unauthorized departure from the factory was considered as leaving the post in the face of the enemy.

We see that it took the French 3,5 of the year to fully address issues related to the mobilization of industry and the militarization of labor (Russia by this time was actually out of the war). And the militarization of labor in “democratic” France was very high - not comparing to the labor system that continued to live according to the laws of peacetime by the main part of the population of Russia. Probably the French are right?


The Great War in Images and Paintings No. 9.
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 21 December 2017 07: 52
    +5
    Most of the prisoners were sent to agricultural work.
    ... My great-grandfather, two Austrians worked ... Grandmother recalled them for a long time, worried .. Did they get home .. They really liked the sort of melons, watermelons, which grandfather grew .. She talked, planted seeds, seedlings of pears, plums .. They offered to stay, wait out the hard times .. Gone ... I really wanted to go home ..
  2. XII Legion
    XII Legion 21 December 2017 08: 13
    22
    What was the militarization of labor of French workers
    Even painted on military corps
    Build to work
    And as we had everything at ease - protest, rowdy - I do not want)
    Interesting data
    1. Blue cop
      Blue cop 21 December 2017 08: 49
      22
      And I liked it the most with rented housing
      The owners overestimate the price - housing is requisitioned and leased at standard prices.
      Democracy in action)
      Where can there be a damned tsarist regime?)
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 21 December 2017 10: 44
      15
      Quote: XII Legion
      What was the militarization of labor of French workers
      Even painted on military corps

      The same thing happened in England and in Germany.
      Rallies, strikes are prohibited and are equated with betrayal with appropriate punishment.

      In Russia, unfortunately, this was not .....
      1. Monarchist
        Monarchist 22 December 2017 08: 22
        +5
        Life itself was forced to introduce "draconian measures."
        I’m now thinking: introduce such methods in Russia, perhaps it did not follow February, and then October?
        1. Nukesmoke
          Nukesmoke 23 December 2017 23: 38
          +1
          One of the problems is that at first people were shot at in 1905-1907, and then these same people were given weapons.
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 28 December 2017 02: 19
            0
            Until the October Revolution of 1917, his circulation in Russia was free, so these people had no shortage of people to shoot at them in 1905-1907. Bombers began to throw at his best representatives long before.
            1. Nukesmoke
              Nukesmoke 2 January 2018 21: 20
              +1
              It really was worth a lot of money. tens of thousands of shotguns are one thing, millions of rifles are another.
              What are some of the best representatives? Do you mean the binoculars who brought the Empire to the handle?
              PS And why did you suddenly call the guard at Zimny’s one January day, suddenly you call bombers? :)))) They crumbled the people without the use of hellish machines.
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 2 January 2018 21: 37
                0
                The empire was brought to the attention of revolutionaries, who created two wars to create revolutionary situations, and then three revolutions.
                No, you mean that. For what reason, for example, Alexander-2 who freed the peasants to be a chinodral, he was already at the top?
                People were shot to protect the Winter Palace, go now so take a walk in a noisy crowd in the Kremlin, even without a blue bucket on your head.
                1. Nukesmoke
                  Nukesmoke 5 January 2018 04: 05
                  +1
                  Yes, I read somewhere that the most dangerous revolutionaries were written in the Velvet Book or in the lists of ranks from the fifth grade and above. I can not agree. They staged two wars and three revolutions.
                  Gratefully named "The Hangman", Alexander Nikolaevich did not inherit the soldier’s bluntness of his father, which caused no less harm than good.
                  “She carved herself!” (c) Gogol
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 6 January 2018 00: 29
                    -1
                    Yes, but you had to immediately chop heads.
                    you re-read the classics, Gogol is difficult, start with Dostaevsky.
                    1. Nukesmoke
                      Nukesmoke 18 January 2018 20: 57
                      +1
                      I don’t know this. I know, there was Fedor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky. And Dostaevsky, Gagal and Pishkin read for yourself, but you can directly into the wall with your head (wiser).
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 18 January 2018 21: 14
                        -1
                        Who cares what the name of this lover of young girls was
                        although you dressed in a Japanese woman’s dress, but couldn’t I explain in Russian?
  3. antivirus
    antivirus 21 December 2017 08: 48
    0
    When Paris was in danger of the last German offensive in May-June 1918, the Labor Force Office prepared a program for the evacuation of more than 100000 mobilized workers of the Paris region to the east,
    maybe right to Alsace-Lorraine?

    RI couldn’t organize itself so finely and precisely and the cap wasn’t enough to throw the enemy ..
  4. soldier
    soldier 21 December 2017 09: 02
    21
    The discipline of the French was high - as was the militarization of labor in production. Bore fruit. But time took a lot.
    And we even did not militarize railway transport - fertile ground for disrupting the supply of food to the capital, strikes, etc., manifestations of economic sabotage and sabotage.
    The Russian authorities needed to be tougher
    Undoubtedly
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 22 December 2017 04: 08
      +2
      With such a rag-king, it is natural that the country slid into chaos and anarchy.
    2. Monarchist
      Monarchist 22 December 2017 08: 39
      +4
      To a soldier, it’s also “tough tsarism”, not a democratic Europe — this is acceptable in Europe
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 23 December 2017 23: 40
        +1
        In Russia, they are sympathetic when leaders of a nut tighten in difficult times. But they despise when they do not.
  5. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 11: 54
    16
    Wonderful and very objective article. It is noteworthy that the "democratic" (as it is traditionally portrayed) France in terms of industrial mobilization acted much tougher than the "tyrannical" imperial Russia. The author - my sincere gratitude for the work done! hi
    1. Nukesmoke
      Nukesmoke 23 December 2017 23: 40
      0
      So, labor discipline is the product of a good education. And the French industry was better developed.
  6. Curious
    Curious 21 December 2017 11: 58
    +2
    "And the militarization of labor in" democratic "France was very high - without going into any comparison with the labor system, which continued to live by peacetime laws, the bulk of Russia's population."
    The statement is not true.
    Since the beginning of the war, administrative legislation has undergone significant changes (a provision on censorship has been introduced, the rights of governors and military authorities have been expanded, the legal capacity and capacity of citizens of countries fighting against Russia have been restricted.
    In the field of civil law - the introduction of requisitions of food, forced expropriation of raw materials. The export of horses, bread, meat, vegetables and other products, as well as various types of industrial raw materials, was prohibited. All industrial enterprises were obligated, first of all, to fulfill military orders, the placement of which was carried out in a forced manner.
    In the field of financial legislation, direct and indirect taxes were increased, land and inheritance taxes were increased, spectacles were increased, indirect taxes on essential goods — sugar, matches, kerosene, increased
    introduced taxes on persons exempted from military service.
    In November 1916, a decree was adopted on the introduction of a food plan established by the authorized representatives of special meetings or the Zemstvo government. Payments for seized products were made in solid prices; in case of refusal, requisition was set at prices 15% lower than solid. A card system was established for the population: products were sold several times a week, limited to single-product distribution of goods.
    In the field of labor legislation - The time for workers to rest was reduced, the working day in industry increased, the use of female and child labor in industry and in transport was allowed. During the war, forced labor was widely used, in particular, military men were attached to factories.
    Criminal law - By the law of November 14, 1914, servicemen guilty of supplying and dispensing substandard weapons, ammunition, food, medicine, were subjected to criminal punishment (up to deprivation of all rights to the state and links to hard labor for a term of 15 to 20 years or without term).
    By a decree of January 12, 1916, those guilty of escaping from service in wartime were deprived of all state rights and exiled to hard labor for a term of 4 to 20 years or indefinitely or death. Persons who escaped to the enemy were deprived of all rights of the state and the death penalty.
    1. XII Legion
      XII Legion 21 December 2017 12: 10
      19
      Why doesn't it fit?
      We are talking about the MILITARIZATION of the labor of workers.
      We did not have a militarization of this type — the workers were not registered with the army corps and were not in service. Doo meant it.
      Everything you describe is the usual cost of wartime. The rear, with the exception of the 300-km frontline zone, continued to live according to ordinary laws. Of course, with separate adjustments to the current moment.
      1. Curious
        Curious 21 December 2017 12: 37
        +2
        It is a militarization of the economy. There is no separate militarization of the economy, militarization of labor, etc. As part of the militarization of the economy, issues of changing legal regulation, including labor legislation, are considered. In each country, they had their own characteristics.
        Therefore, to say that in France there was a militarization of labor, and in Russia - just the costs of wartime - you yourself understand, I will not even comment. And in general, take a closer look at what sizes and shapes these “costs” had during the years of WWII in the Russian economy.
        1. XII Legion
          XII Legion 21 December 2017 13: 57
          16
          Thanks for the advice
          But
          The militarization of the economy, such as it was in France, Germany and England, was absent in Russia. A striking example and the first step of this is the lack of militarization of railway transport
          1. Curious
            Curious 21 December 2017 14: 40
            +4
            According to the degree of industrial mobilization (of the 3,3 million workers in 1916, 1,9 million workers, or 58% are engaged in military production), Russia was at the level of Germany and France, leaving England behind, where 46% of the workers worked for the war. Labor productivity per worker in armament factories has increased over the years to 176%. This is a question of militarization.
            About the railways.
            In the early days of the war, the Russian Empire in the sense of transport management was administratively divided into two parts - the rear roads (44 thousand versts) and the front road (22 thousand versts). On the front roads, all power belonged to the Headquarters of the Supreme Commander and the laws of war acted. The former administration worked on the rear roads and the traffic regulations practically did not change.
            This approach was caused not at all by the absence of militarization in the country or increased liberalism, but by the lack of understanding that transport in a world war, with such a strain of forces, should not work separately and relaxed.
            The consequences of such "dualism" were not slow to affect.
            Since the capacity of most roads left much to be desired, in the days of mobilization 32 thousand wagons with commercial cargo had to be unloaded, and another 28 thousand were detained at the stations in an already submerged state. Accumulations began to form at the stations. In addition, the loading of bread in the second half of 1914 compared with the same months of 1913 was halved - from 712 thousand to 353 thousand wagons. As a result, by the end of 1914, the country was faced with a food crisis. In total, up to two billion pounds of “civilian” cargo were not transported in 1914. Such a sharp decline had a negative impact on industry and trade, and was a prerequisite for rising prices and speculation.
            1. XII Legion
              XII Legion 21 December 2017 15: 12
              19
              QED
              Help is interesting
              But the militarization of the economy in the full sense of the term.
              Moreover, the militarization of the entire railway complex of the empire was not.
              1. Curious
                Curious 21 December 2017 15: 23
                +1
                "But the militarization of the economy in the full sense of the term."
                And what is the full meaning of this term?
                1. XII Legion
                  XII Legion 21 December 2017 15: 36
                  18
                  You can also watch and read about the full value. Popular - fits into the capacious phrase: "Everything for the front, everything for the victory."
                  I want to note here only that, by the standards of the First World War, that militarization that was even in France was absent in Russia.
                  1. Curious
                    Curious 21 December 2017 16: 54
                    +1
                    I am glad that the essence of the matter has been clarified. in the future I will know that you should not spend time on discussions with you, since many issues are still beyond your understanding. All the best.
                    1. XII Legion
                      XII Legion 21 December 2017 20: 41
                      18
                      What other discussion?
                      Post huge Internet copies - how are you doing, is this a discussion?
                      And on the subject - if you please.
                      You want to say that the Russian workers at all (even defense) enterprises worked the same time?
                      What Russian workers were assigned to the army corps?
                      Or maybe curators-supervisors for workers were appointed to the factories from crippled Russian officers?
                      Or do you want to say that strikes on the railway and the creation of interruptions in food supplies for the capital are possible with the militarization of the railways?
                      1. Curious
                        Curious 21 December 2017 21: 58
                        0
                        Strange, I wrote to you that your train of thought is not interesting to me. Communicate with like-minded people. Good luck.
            2. Nukesmoke
              Nukesmoke 12 January 2018 23: 47
              0
              Golovin through Fedoseyev?
              1. Serge72
                Serge72 19 January 2018 11: 49
                15
                Sidorov through Petrov
                1. Nukesmoke
                  Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 13: 01
                  +1
                  Often N.N. Golovin ("Russia in the First World War"), quoted by S.L. Fedoseev ("" Cannon meat "of the First World War. Infantry in battle").

                  Wit, learn the materiel.
                  1. Serge72
                    Serge72 19 January 2018 19: 39
                    15
                    I understood you before that))
                    Pinned up
                    And you seduced))
                    But thanks for the advice - it's always too late to refresh the equipment
                    1. Nukesmoke
                      Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 21: 34
                      +1
                      But I did not appreciate the joke. It happens. In Moscow, Belash will soon push the lecture.
                      1. Serge72
                        Serge72 19 January 2018 21: 56
                        15
                        Yes, it seems the other day.
                        Readings dedicated to the 100th anniversary of the end of the WWII.
                        November did not wait
  7. skeptic31
    skeptic31 21 December 2017 22: 46
    +2
    The First World War is currently the third most popular topic, if it is considered separately from the first topic - the reign of Nicholas II. The second most popular topic is about Tartaria and the absence of the Mongol-Tatar yoke. On the one hand, it is good that we fill a clear gap in our knowledge of our history. And this is a very significant part of our history. On the other hand, there is a clear capricious bias in these narratives. In fact, we were, if not the fifth wheel in this war, then we didn’t go either in the roots, or in the remote, at best, in the close. This was caused by the objective state of the then Russian economy. The question could or could not compete in the production of weapons and ammunition with Germany, from my point of view, is not serious. In vain we all got involved in that war. But this is a separate issue.
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 22 December 2017 08: 50
      +1
      Dear skeptic, Samsonov had materials about Russia's entry into the WWII. I then believed and now I think: Russia was forced to join
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 12 January 2018 23: 47
        0
        Woke up! Good gentleman, you should go to the gymnasium!
        And yes, the war was needed the least. I would not have to arrange a "record run" later.
    2. soldier
      soldier 5 January 2018 08: 26
      15
      skeptic31
      In fact, we were, if not the fifth wheel in this war, then we did not go either in the roots, or in the remote, at best, in the close.

      No, on the contrary - God forbid to restore even a fraction of historical justice.
      The Entente would never have won without Russia in that war. Russia pulled back a total of as many Austro-German-Turkish troops as the rest of the Entente combined. The Germans in Paris were earlier than the 40th year - and if the foreigners themselves think so, it is a pity that we still believe that
      they didn’t go either in the roots, or in remote, at best, in the adjoining
      . Or is self-flagellation good? May be.
      The question could or could not compete with Germany in the production of weapons and ammunition
      It makes no sense to compare the industrial and agrarian-industrial countries - although progress for Russia during the war years was most powerful. And with time they would have become even and surpassed - and without different collectivizations.
      And in the years of WWII, Russia and Germany had nothing to compare nose to nose - it was necessary to compare the potential of the two blocs, a coalition war.
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 12 January 2018 23: 45
        0
        No one pleads with Russia's merits in this war unnecessary for her.
        1. Serge72
          Serge72 19 January 2018 11: 47
          15
          They belittle some ...
          Having defeated the allies in the west, the Germans and the Austrians would have “divided” us.
          It's about the instinct of self-preservation.
          This is about uselessness.
          1. Serge72
            Serge72 19 January 2018 11: 48
            15
            I had to enter.
            Otherwise it would be bad
            1. Nukesmoke
              Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 13: 02
              0
              Duc, thanks to diplomats and Kolya Romanov in particular.
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 20 January 2018 22: 20
                0
                Why not Kaiser? he declared war on Russia. Although of course more is for you, the Masonic Sarajevo terrorists.
                1. Nukesmoke
                  Nukesmoke 20 January 2018 22: 30
                  0
                  Aure, prostrate before the freemason!
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 20 January 2018 22: 59
                    0
                    you're fired.
                    1. Nukesmoke
                      Nukesmoke 21 January 2018 12: 50
                      0
                      Aure is dreaming about the rank of junior non-commissioned officer :))))
                  2. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 21 January 2018 15: 39
                    0
                    there are no irreplaceable ones.
          2. Nukesmoke
            Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 13: 04
            0
            If war is not needed, this is not a reason to avoid it. Although, for the monarchy, it would perhaps be better to get rid of France with debts and find a common language with Germany. In any case, von Tirpitz, at the head of the NNP, preached this, and the old admiral pulled well in geopolitics.
            1. Serge72
              Serge72 19 January 2018 19: 37
              15
              Possible.
              But the claims of the German bloc against us were - and it is better to resist them having allies than alone.
              And the Germans pushed the old admiral into a corner
              1. Nukesmoke
                Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 21: 38
                0
                Naturally were. At A-B :)))) At Germany itself ... FIG knows, except for the Kaiser chatter, they quietly chopped loot even without war.
  8. XII Legion
    XII Legion 21 December 2017 23: 15
    17
    Curious,
    And I did not write about the course of thoughts, but about the specifics.
    Unrequitedly.
    Thanks for the wish - and of course I would communicate with like-minded people if you had not become attached to my comments.
    And good luck to you
  9. Mu Dialer
    Mu Dialer 23 December 2017 04: 51
    +7
    Russia was quite ready for the war in 1914, as the first months of the war proved - at least a draw with the enemy. Another thing is that they could not quickly get ready after the start of the war and quickly and sharply increase the production of arms and ammunition, hence the 15 year crisis, but by the year 16 they had started production of the necessary.
    1. Nukesmoke
      Nukesmoke 23 December 2017 23: 43
      0
      In 1914-1915 the best soldiers of the RIA were mowed down. By 1916, the army was no longer that.
      1. Serge72
        Serge72 24 December 2017 08: 55
        15
        By the end of 1915 the army was restored.
        Although the cadres were not (mostly) of peacetime, they were patriotic and seasoned by war.
        As the events of the 1916 campaign showed
        An “wrong” army would not have carried out one of the most successful operations of the Great War
        1. Nukesmoke
          Nukesmoke 24 December 2017 14: 15
          +1
          The frames were not the same. For under the gun went people who previously tried not to take the army. So reasoning about “war-hardened” is phantoms. The terrible losses in non-commissioned and ober-officer personnel also had a negative effect. It is not surprising that in 1916 the Brusilovsky breakthrough ended in failure ("Kovel meat grinder"), and then the spirit of the army began to steadily decline.
          1. Serge72
            Serge72 24 December 2017 15: 08
            15
            Read the assessment of the same Golovin and Kersnovsky about the army in 1916 and about the officers in particular. About war ensigns - their color "made" this campaign at the forefront.
            The breakthrough ended in “failure” for operational and strategic reasons. If at all, one of the most successful operations of the Entente, which led to the seizure of a strategic initiative, can be considered a failure.
            And the spirit of the army was on top.
            One of the delegates of the Petrograd Conference in January 1917, having visited the front, recalled:
            “The positions of the Russians at the front are very strong and in some areas equipped with a large number of wire fences. ... I was much more satisfied with the organization and defense system at the front than I expected. The soldiers are well-fed and well-dressed ... The army, which was able to fully recover from the disaster that befell it a year and a half ago, can do a lot to accomplish its mission. Neither the French nor the English army could recover so soon .... I can quite imagine the breakthrough of the German front to the east ... The Russians are holding on superbly. In most cases, they are tall, strong, funny guys. They are surprisingly brave and patient ... they are taken care of ... "
            The spirit began to fall already in the conditions of decay - in the spring of 1917. And then - they managed to carry out the Summer Offensive - at first quite successful.
            The safety margin of the RIA was the most powerful.
            1. Nukesmoke
              Nukesmoke 12 January 2018 23: 44
              +1
              “The positions of the Russians at the front are very strong and in some areas equipped with a large number of wire fences. ... I was much more satisfied with the organization and defense system at the front than I expected. The soldiers are well-fed and well-dressed ... The army, which was able to fully recover from the disaster that befell it a year and a half ago, can do a lot to accomplish its mission. Neither the French nor the English army could recover so soon .... I can quite imagine the breakthrough of the German front to the east ... The Russians are holding on superbly. In most cases, they are tall, strong, funny guys. They are surprisingly brave and patient ... they are taken care of ... "

              And suddenly bam! Do not want to attack!
              Yes, and I modestly remind you that at the time of the departure of the nameless delegate (he probably also gave an interview to all the central newspapers of the Russian Republic!), The Empire with its colossal margin of safety no longer existed.
              1. Serge72
                Serge72 13 January 2018 07: 07
                15
                An empire with its colossal margin of safety no longer existed.

                By the joint efforts of the enemy internal and external
                1. Serge72
                  Serge72 13 January 2018 07: 08
                  15
                  But it is later
                  And the speech in the report on January 1917 - when the empire existed.
                  If you carefully read
                  1. Nukesmoke
                    Nukesmoke 18 January 2018 23: 01
                    0
                    You're right! Although it is January, that February ... In the fall of 1916 the collapse of the army began, after the failure of the offensive on the South-Western Front.
                2. Nukesmoke
                  Nukesmoke 18 January 2018 23: 00
                  0
                  The enemy is an external German and a Turk, the internal enemy is a king and a nobleman.
                  1. Serge72
                    Serge72 19 January 2018 11: 45
                    15
                    There was no collapse in the year 16.
                    The army, even under conditions of decay, held out for a year.
                    The external enemy is named, the internal - terrorists and revolutionaries of all stripes, subversive parties and agents of influence.
                    1. Nukesmoke
                      Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 13: 05
                      0
                      Terrorists and revolutionaries, first of all, of noble and supreme non-uniform suit, I agree. Subversive and agents of influence cadets and Octobrists.
                      1. Serge72
                        Serge72 19 January 2018 19: 35
                        16
                        And also different Socialist Revolutionaries. And the "defeatists" of the Bolsheviks (as Kersnovsky rightly wrote). Speaking of nobles - Ilyich a bright representative
  10. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 23 December 2017 23: 42
    0
    Let's just say that Russia has militarized industry more than other countries. But the problem was in the industry itself. Reading the "census" of Varzar, you are filled with sadness.
    1. Serge72
      Serge72 24 December 2017 08: 52
      15
      Yes, there’s nothing to say.
      Unfortunately in Russia, it was not possible to achieve such a degree of militarization as in France or Germany.
      Elementary did not have enough time
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 24 December 2017 14: 16
        +1
        Elementary did not have the will and brains of citizen Romanov.
        1. Serge72
          Serge72 13 January 2018 07: 09
          15
          How simple it is - to blame on one person
          In the spirit of domestic tradition
          1. Dalailama
            Dalailama 18 January 2018 21: 16
            +1
            Caution If some degenerad (A. Ulyanov) tried to kill the emperor and his family for the first time, it is better not to execute him alone, but also his entire family in return.
            It was still an emperor. And when he was a citizen he was no longer an inheritance.
            1. Nukesmoke
              Nukesmoke 18 January 2018 23: 03
              0
              Aure reason to say who should be executed :)))))
              1. Dalailama
                Dalailama 19 January 2018 03: 09
                +1
                Why were you so worried right away?
                1. Nukesmoke
                  Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 11: 20
                  0
                  Aure supporter of the theory: "Only mass executions will save the RCMP?" Implemented. Did not work out.
                  1. Dalailama
                    Dalailama 20 January 2018 22: 23
                    0
                    And it was necessary universal so that no one else would cast a voice from the booth.
                    1. Nukesmoke
                      Nukesmoke 20 January 2018 22: 30
                      0
                      Does Aure crave solitude?
                      1. Dalailama
                        Dalailama 20 January 2018 23: 01
                        0
                        this bell may ring at you.
          2. Nukesmoke
            Nukesmoke 18 January 2018 23: 02
            0
            Good. The king was good, but the entire top management of the Empire was complete shit.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 19 January 2018 03: 00
              0
              so it was so yours
              1. Nukesmoke
                Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 11: 21
                0
                Aure, are you confusing something?
                1. Serge72
                  Serge72 19 January 2018 11: 44
                  15
                  So the concept of “bad boyars” - “good king” is already working?
                  Then, based on your views, only one person is to blame for the current decline - V. Putin?
                  1. Nukesmoke
                    Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 13: 07
                    0
                    Based on my concept, the king / boyar variation is a testament to stupidity. I was naughty.
                    Decline? Is it possible in more detail? I must say right away that I’ll all die!
                    1. Serge72
                      Serge72 19 January 2018 19: 32
                      15
                      Well, I will not philosophize about the reductions and closures of hospitals. What is a witness to. The processes are going negative.
                      With the fact that we die - I agree
                      1. Nukesmoke
                        Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 21: 45
                        +1
                        We will not argue. I really have more positive in sight, but that is not good everywhere, I know. Although what to expect - now only the new is beginning.
  11. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 23 December 2017 23: 47
    +1
    A little about rifles and shots.
    So far, such a rough compilation has been obtained (from Golovin and Barsukov from the militia).
    The numbers immediately say inaccurate, rounded.
    First, I will cite excerpts from the Knox report of October 1915 (cited by Golovin)
    Western Front:
    Divisions (by state):
    71 p.p., 27600 officers, 1 lower ranks.
    Divisions (in fact):
    71 p.p., 9408 officers, 346 lower ranks.
    From this ratio, the British military agent concludes that the total number of troops at the front is 650000. Such a small number of personnel, he said, is the reason for the lack of small arms.
    Now let's see the data for the 1914 call:
    The peacetime army numbered about 1,4 million.
    In stock were about 3,1 million people to be mobilized at the beginning of the war.
    Now a little “Siberian” aspect. Sukhomlinov and the General Staff from 1910 engaged in dancing with tambourines. First, the extra 400 thousand rifles of Berdan were converted into scrap and hunting rifles. Then the dormant eye of the "scientists" of the General Staffists decided that 340 thousand Mosin rifles are also superfluous, and they should be disposed of. Then 170 thousand Mosin rifles were presented to “Balkan” friends and 10 thousand were released to the Mongols. In total, by the beginning of the war, the army had lost nearly 500 thousand rifles (and naturally, cartridges for nm!).
    Now let's see what happened in the end. At the beginning of the mobilization there were about 4,26 million Mosin rifles, 360 thousand Berdan rifles. Another 400 thousand Berdan rifles were in good condition and could be used (they did not have time to convert them). In general, everything was fine on paper - reservists received the required number of rifles.
    July 18 mobilization struck. Under the gun stood 3,1 million reservists. However, this did not seem enough, on July 22 another 800 thousand warriors of the 400st category were called up (400 thousand who served (transferred from the reserve), and 22 thousand who did not serve from the economy). On September 300, another 1 thousand were called (not serving). Russia is rich in people, and on October 715 another 200 thousand recruits were called up. We thought, scratched my head and called for another 6,5 thousand (not serving warriors) I category. And joy came - almost 300 million under arms! This is the power, we will throw our hats, tremble the adversary! However, it is easy to summon people, but arming is somewhat more difficult. The first problems began in August, when 4559000 thousand rifles for the drafted were missed (shamans from the General Staff calculated the need was determined in 4,9 rifles, and the army suddenly reached more than 870 million people). But when by November the shortage of rifles amounted to 1914 thousand, the problem became noticeable. They decided in Russian - marching replenishment began to receive from half to a quarter of the required number of rifles. But tsarist Russia had a powerful military industry, which had to give out as many rifles as needed. True, the need turned out to be so calculated that in 133 the Sestroretsk arms factory was almost closed as unnecessary. In general, by the end of the year, as many as 143 thousand Mosin rifles were issued (another 120 thousand were repaired, although before the war XNUMX thousand rifles of the same system were faulty).
    In general, there was nothing terribly wrong with the fact that a certain number of troops had no weapons. In the end, only 3,5 million of those called up had military experience, and they did not immediately go to the front. Another 1,6 million recruits and non-serving warriors only comprehended the basics of martial art (by marching on the parade ground, cleaning boots, buttons and latrines, as well as enhanced nutrition).
    By mid-October 1914, there were 2,7 million people in the army. However, active actions reduced this number by mid-December to 2 million people. But human reserves allow by mid-January 1915 to increase the number of personnel to 3,5 million people (almost twice). Probably these 1,5 million still had a sufficient amount of weapons and good training. By February, the number of troops is reduced to 3,2 million people, the army can still conduct active operations. Then its composition is steadily increasing, and by mid-April 1915 reaches 4,2 million people. However, apparently 6,5 million people called up were few, and the warriors in January (480 thousand) and recruits (673 thousand) should be called up. In April, another 600 thousand warriors are being called up. Only 155 rifles were produced. In general, 1915 million were called up in 5 (of which 2,85 million were called up after July), with 860 thousand rifles produced. Another 600 thousand Arisaka rifles were received.
    Further counting on the knee.
    Losses of rifles were estimated at about 200 thousand per month. Until October 1915, at least 2,4 million rifles were lost at the front. About 750 thousand Mosin rifles and about 500 thousand Arisak received from the Japanese were received from industry from the beginning of the war until October. So there were about 4 million rifles. About the same number was the size of the army operating at the front (3,9 million people). However, from the beginning of the war until October 1915 more than 11 million people were called up for military service. The ratio is certainly not 1 to 3, but slightly better. So it is quite possible that Knox's information had every reason to be reliable. Given the ratio of rear units and the army in excess of 2 to 1, we can conclude that the rifles were spread evenly in parts - as a result, about 1 million rifles (or even less) could be on the front, which was clearly not enough. Losses of rifles are calculated very optimistic, perhaps their losses were even greater.
    1. Serge72
      Serge72 13 January 2018 07: 12
      15
      And what did they say new?
      The fact that peacetime calculations were overturned by the reality of war is well known. All countries went through this - at different times.
      In Russia, the "famine" in relation to light artillery shells was overcome by the beginning of 1916. And to small arms - even earlier.
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke 18 January 2018 23: 05
        0
        But the "hunger" in the number of trunks, from rifles and machine guns to heavy artillery remained. You just did not see the forest beyond the trees.
        1. Serge72
          Serge72 19 January 2018 11: 41
          15
          Hunger was over
          Saw everything
          1. Nukesmoke
            Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 13: 15
            0
            Overcome? Are you sure? What is your evidence?
            In the states of 1916 alone, only 3 "required 11200. Do not remind me how much" was there "in the army?
            1. Serge72
              Serge72 19 January 2018 19: 33
              15
              Proof of? Specialists write about overcoming hunger. Soviet including. And there were no guns - the question is different.
              1. Serge72
                Serge72 19 January 2018 19: 42
                15
                States constantly changed - instead of 8 guns 6
                Then the third and fourth divisions
                1. Nukesmoke
                  Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 21: 43
                  0
                  They reformed to the point that the Germans in the division had 2 times more than only light artillery ... Although it is clear - it’s hard to control an 8 gun monster.
              2. Nukesmoke
                Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 21: 41
                0
                Soviet wrote about overcoming the "shell" hunger. Cartridge, rifle, machine gun and cannon no one denied.
                1. Serge72
                  Serge72 19 January 2018 21: 55
                  15
                  With cartridges the second half of the war was in full order. I read somewhere about the mass of cartridges that were left in positions. Need to find.
                  The rifle was overcome, and as for the rest, the situation leveled off.
                  1. Nukesmoke
                    Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 22: 19
                    0
                    Fedoseev with reference to Fedorov. With a negative connotation, they asked for more cartridges than they had time to use up, and then heaps of cartridges that were lying in the trenches without proper storage measures were often thrown .. By the way, the same thing about “maximum fire” - gun wear without effect.
  12. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 18 January 2018 23: 04
    0
    Dalailama,
    Aure, your attention is flattering to me, but due to your level of development, communication with you is somewhat boring.
  13. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 19 January 2018 21: 48
    +1
    Serge72,
    By the way, yes. Lenin is a rather vivid representative of the "nobility" (by the way like Chicherin and Dzerzhinsky). And so - under the ruling dynasty, in the manner reminiscent of a punk commune ... This is the norm (s)
  14. Dalailama
    Dalailama 20 January 2018 22: 28
    0
    Nukesmoke,
    Prefer to go straight to the discussion of the topic in terms of articles on dog breeding?
    1. Nukesmoke
      Nukesmoke 20 January 2018 22: 31
      0
      Aure versatile in ignorance?
      1. Dalailama
        Dalailama 20 January 2018 23: 02
        0
        Not spherical, unless in profile.
  15. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke 21 January 2018 12: 50
    0
    Dalailama,
    Aure threatens to recuse?