Military Review

Disk shells, disk tools ...

Some time ago, an article on new types of bullets for submachine guns with a sharp edge appeared on the VO. Spinning in a shaped barrel, such a bullet could, in principle, inflict a very strong defeat at close range, and more from a submachine gun is not required. Of course, this is just an assumption and nothing more. It is interesting, however, that there was a time when projectiles in the form of a disk were seriously considered by artillerymen from different countries of the world, including Russia, as a real replacement for spherical and even cylindroconical projectiles.

Dulnozaryadny bronze gun N.V. Mayevsky caliber 86,8-mm.

And it was so that the experience of the Crimean War showed to the whole world that the range of fire of field artillery is too small, and that the fire from rifled guns makes it possible to hit artillerymen who were in artillery positions even behind the battle formations of their infantry. All this required the development of not only new types of rifled small weapons, but also artillery systems of increased range.

The barrel of the muzzle-loading bronze cannon.

Another unpleasant discovery was the armor, which began to sheathe wooden warships. The ball bombs of Peksan’s guns bounced off this armor, but even if they exploded from hitting it, they could not penetrate anyway. They tried to increase the impact force of the guns by increasing the caliber to 508-mm, but such guns for the ships turned out to be excessively heavy.

It seemed to be the easiest to modernize (that is, to convert into rifled) old bronze cannons, since cast iron ones were not suitable for this purpose. That is, the principle of manufacturing the barrel remained old, charging too, but the presence of rifling allowed to increase the firing range and the destructive power of new projectiles to these guns. In Russia, for example, already in 1858, a four-pound (86,8 mm) gun was designed, with a traditional bronze barrel, which, however, had six rifles inside. For this instrument Professor N.V. Maievsky developed an original cast-iron grenade weighing 4,6 kg, on the case of which zinc projections were made, which entered into grooves inside the barrel during loading. At the head of the projectile was a copper shock tube, instantly ignited the explosive charge in the projectile when it hit the target. Well, and the projectile, moving in the barrel and at the same time rotating, continued to rotate after its departure from the barrel. This achieved greater accuracy of shooting. Its range was twice as high as that of a smooth-bore gun of the same caliber; the mass of the projectile and the amount of the explosive contained in it were higher.

Shells to 86,8 -mm N.V. gun Maievsky

The drawback of the gun was the reduced rate of fire, since the projectile had to be advanced into the barrel along the rifling, that is, rotated over the entire length of the barrel. Part of the powder gases when firing still broke through into the gaps between the zinc protrusions and the walls of the barrel, which caused the projectile to oscillate and reflected in the accuracy. But soon Maievsky designed breech-loading rifled field guns with bronze barrels and wedge gates 9-pound (107 mm) and 4-pound caliber, cast iron shells to which had many small cuts and an external (on top of the cast-iron!) Lead sheath. The breakthrough of gases was thus eliminated.

107-mm gun N.V. Maievsky

However, Prof. Mayevsky was also interested in other ways to increase the penetrating power and firing range of artillery guns. For example, it could be a disc-shaped projectiles fired from guns with a special bore. By this time they were engaged in the same England, Belgium, here in Russia, and in Italy. For example, in his special study on discal shells, launched in 1857, the Italian artilleryman Saint-Robert proposed several ways to make disc shells rotate: for example, a disc shell with a lead belt around the circumference could cut into the notch teeth (like a toothed rack), and when moving along such a channel, and encountering a greater resistance from above than below, would receive the required rotation; 2) the flat parts of the projectile surface have a protrusion on a common axis, and on the side walls of the elliptical canal there are two notches for these protrusions, moving along which the projectile would roll along the bore, and 3) and, finally, the most original proposal was the barrel with smooth elliptical channel, curved in the form of an arc! When fired from such an “arc trunk”, the centrifugal force would press the projectile against its upper part, and it would roll along it, and end up with the desired rotation.

Bore 107 mm guns N.V. Maievsky

Separate experiments were seemingly very comforting properties. For example, the projectile of the Belgian artilleryman Puyt with a weight of about eight pounds made it possible to get a range of up to 1.250 fathoms (1 fathom - 2.13 m), while the usual core of the same caliber and weight could not shoot further than 250 fathoms. At a distance of 100 fathoms such a projectile punched a frame from a double row of bars ten inches thick.

Disk shells, disk tools ...

Diskettes guns from the Artillery Museum in St. Petersburg. Left - N.V. Maievsky, in the center - A.I. Plestsov and on the right - A.A. Andrianova.

Obviously wanting to test all this in practice, Professor Mayevsky in 1868 offered a gun with a barrel bent upwards, in which the projectile disk would get rotated due to centrifugal force. The shooting carried out in 1871 — 1873 has confirmed that the calculations are correct: a disk projectile weighing 3,5 kg, with a speed of 480 m / s, was able to fly 2500 m, whereas as a normal core of similar weight of all 500 m.

Muzzle cut Plestsov gun.

A.I. Plestsov and I.V. Meat eaters offered to tighten the disk shell with a rack in the upper part of the barrel. On the projectile, a lead band was provided for this at the end. They had a shell and "rolled" on this rail, and from this, and then rotated.

Muzzle cut Andrianov's gun.

A.A. gun Andrianov had no rake. She had straight rifling: a narrower in the upper part of the barrel, but wider - in its lower part, because of which he braked in the upper part and began to turn. Interestingly, all of these tools, proposed by our designers, were breech-loading, had modern wedge closures, but were still cast in bronze. Steel trunks at the time did not work yet.

Muzzle slice gun Maievsky.

That is, there were several systems of guns that fired discoid shells. What, as it turned out, was good and bad in them? Firstly, the range was good, and secondly, it turned out that at certain angles, the discoid projectile on the final segment of the trajectory can move like a boomerang - “slightly backward”, that is, it allows the troops to be fired behind the walls and on the opposite slopes of the ravines! But there were also serious disadvantages, the main of which was the spread of the trajectories of the flight of the disc-shells. It affected a lot of factors, which designers were unable to change. For example, wind, atmospheric pressure, and uniformity in the production of ammunition at that time was very difficult to achieve. But that which was naturally compensated in rifled implements for cylindrical shells could not be compensated in the “diskettes”. Or, for example, such a question and question is very important, like placing a explosive charge and a fuse in a disk-shell. In any case, due to its shape in such projectiles, the bursting charge was even less than in a spherical one. And where in it could put a shock fuse? That is, it was impossible in principle, not to mention the fact that such a weapon could not shoot either grapeshot or shrapnel, and these for the type of projectiles were most widely used in artillery at that time.

Shells for disk tools.

The last attempt to create a thrower for discoids in Russia was made in the 1910 year, but it also failed due to the inability to get any satisfactory accuracy of shooting at long distances.

P.S. The author and the site administration are grateful to N. Mikhailov for providing photos from the St. Petersburg Artillery Museum.
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  1. garik77
    garik77 21 December 2017 15: 18
    Hmm A serious increase in range. Interestingly, from the point of view of today's day, this can have a perspective?
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 21 December 2017 17: 28
      Quote: garik77
      from the point of view of today's day, can this have a prospect?

      But yak! For example, if you don’t have enough imagination for a new way to "cut" budget money, then you can "cut" it ... "New" is a well-forgotten "old"! wink
    2. Michael_Zverev
      Michael_Zverev 22 December 2017 08: 40
      Hardly. Today, an increase in range can be achieved with simpler means.
  2. Curious
    Curious 21 December 2017 15: 18
    "In Russia, for example, already in 1658 a four-pound (86,8 mm) cannon was designed with a traditional bronze barrel, which, however, had six grooves inside. "
    В 1858 in Russia, the design of a new light four-pound (86,8 mm) gun was completed, the bronze barrel of which had six rifling.
    The photos are interesting. And it is better to read the text by reference, from Sytin.
  3. Mikado
    Mikado 21 December 2017 16: 13
    Nikolai Vladimirovich Maievsky was the largest scientist-gunner of his time. You just won’t get the Mikhailovsky Prize twice. soldier
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. avva2012
    avva2012 21 December 2017 17: 54
    Photos, stunned! I have never seen such guns and shells. Wow!
    1. Grid
      Grid 23 December 2017 13: 07
      The same guns from the other end:

      In general, I highly recommend sliding into Peter and wandering into the Artillery Museum. There is something to see.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 23 December 2017 14: 07
        Quote: Grille
        roll into Peter and wander into the Artillery Museum.

        This is my dream! fellow And then ..... in several "foreign" countries visited; and, even. Not once, but in St. Petersburg, no, no ... recourse
        PSYou well done that showed the "breech"! And then from article to article, basically, "muzzle" images walk ... request Oh, to get to the guns ... "I would enlighten"!
        PPSA couple to this article is asking for an article on "polarized" cores (grenades) ... wink
        1. Grid
          Grid 23 December 2017 14: 50
          You did well, that showed the "breech"! And then from article to article basically “muzzle” images walk ... request Eh, I would get to the guns ... I’d enlighten me with an X-ray!

          Duc specifically for this and waved 3000 km from its habitat. Four days, as to work, climbed Kronverk. In general, I would ask for political asylum there :). And if there was still the opportunity to touch all this with pens, and dig deeper into the funds ...
          / PPSA couple to this article is asking for an article on "polarized" cores (grenades) ... /
          Well, initially the "polarization" was obtained quite by accident. It was just casting technology.
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 23 December 2017 15: 29
            Well, originally, maybe! But then they tried to take it in earnest! And then the scientists of the theory developed ... and practical experiments were carried out ... and the "Germans" (Prussians, Bavarians) even began to produce "polarized" grenade nuclei with the adoption thereof.
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 24 December 2017 18: 58
            "Four days, as to work, climbed Kronverk." ///

            I see.
            I am probably among the participants in the discussion - the champion of visiting the Artillery
            the museum. I lived close there, and in the lower grades of school I went there almost every day
            after school. Fortunately, it was free, the weather in Leningrad was usually lousy, and the museum was warm, quiet, interesting! He stared at everything, but by his infancy, alas, he could not appreciate his wealth ...
            1. Antares
              Antares 24 December 2017 22: 16
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Artillery Champion

              was only once ... alas. And the time was limited ..
            2. Grid
              Grid 26 December 2017 15: 18
              the weather in Leningrad is usually lousy,

              And there’s such a fucking thing:
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. polpot
    polpot 21 December 2017 19: 55
    Every century, similar systems appear in the 18th century, “Shuvalov’s“ secret tools, in 19 those described in the article, in 20 Tukhachevsky with his projections, we are waiting for a new one in the 21st century, a person will always seek and not always successfully
  8. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 21 December 2017 21: 02
    Bravo, Nikolai! Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich! The first time I read about these tools (well, as I read, I looked at the pictures: “Oban! What a thing!”) Somewhere in the early 80s in TM. If Viktor Nikolayevich agrees with his back and climbs into the mezzanine, he can specify the number of the magazine. hi
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 21 December 2017 21: 15
      If Viktor Nikolayevich agrees with his back and climbs into the mezzanine, he can specify the number of the magazine.

      I would recommend to my dear (true!) Viktor Nikolaevich, Anton, not yet accumulate knowledge on criticism, but raise the fifth point (or, conversely, put it more comfortably on a chair), and start writing myself. am And then such a talent disappears! But there are no prophets in their own country .. request except me .. wink Remember the conversation about the preacher? After all, when I was shooting, I did not know that Maievsky was my complete namesake! (except for a surname, but also there on "M"!) wink Begin to frighten coincidences ... belay and photos .. a lot of them. You will also see, one has already seen in an article about rich knightly armor. I put off a couple wink for yourself beloved. hi "I am a dark power spawn, midnight rule the ball" (Count von Krolock). Already written slowly wink drinks
    2. Curious
      Curious 21 December 2017 22: 48
      "Technique of Youth" No. 9 for 1985, under the heading "Our Artillery Museum".
  9. Tarasios
    Tarasios 21 December 2017 22: 17
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    ! Straight, I’d like to stick my head in the barrel!

    alas, with disk implements this will not work)))
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 22 December 2017 02: 01
      Quote: Tarasios
      alas, with disk implements this will not work)))

      So, there is one suitable photo ..... and wanting is not harmful! wink
  10. Amurets
    Amurets 21 December 2017 23: 06
    Thank. If you look at all the developments to increase the range and accuracy of shooting, you can find a lot of interesting and unexpected. Author, thank you for finding such interesting photos. Shirokorad in the secrets of artillery, there is not much.
    1. kalibr
      21 December 2017 23: 21
      And thank you. But when you know where to look and what to look for, it is not difficult to find, especially if there are good helpers!
  11. marline
    marline 22 December 2017 14: 01
    Thank you for the article. Photos are wonderful as always. The article is very interesting. Frankly, I did not know that the tools for the disk shell were generally designed.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 23 December 2017 14: 13
      Quote: merlin
      I didn’t know that tools for a disk shell were generally designed.

      Duc ... and under the "square" too .... ugh you (!) ... under the "cubic"!
  12. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 22 December 2017 22: 18
    Good article. I remember that in the old “Youth Technique” nuclei with a shifted center of gravity were mentioned on this occasion, rotating about the transverse axis, they received additional lifting force due to the Magnus effect, which increased the range. And about Maievsky, I can say that this was the largest scientist who introduced a similarity criterion for the compressibility of the medium almost simultaneously with Ernst Mach, the number M, the equal ratio of the flight speed to the speed of sound at the end of the 40's, was even called the Mayevsky number. After the arrival of Khrushchev Kukuruzny again, this criterion began to be called the Mach number in our country - well, where are we, the bastard, to Europe.
    1. Curious
      Curious 23 December 2017 01: 47
      Has Khrushch personally instructed to rename it? Or was the Supreme Council ruling?
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 23 December 2017 11: 27
        The story is like this. In 1947, Academician P.L. Kapitsa wrote a letter to Stalin, the essence of which was that unbridled bowing to the West began, and our world-class achievements in science, medicine, and industry are being hushed up. Based on the results of the letter, a decision was made (take a look at which government or party body) to prevent such cronyism. As a result, a series of books and films "Pirogov", "Tsiolkovsky", "Zhukovsky" and others about our advanced science was released. The Mach number was then called the Maievsky number, even the generally accepted name "helicopter" was replaced by "helicopter." There were, of course, overlaps, toadies always hang around any authority. At the same time, there was a campaign against "rootless cosmopolitans" who then tried to spoil our country. After Stalin's death, everything returned to its original state, why - you yourself somehow find out whether there was a resolution of the Council of Ministers or not.
  13. Grid
    Grid 23 December 2017 13: 04
    But soon Maievsky designed breech-loading rifled field guns with bronze trunks and wedge bolts of 9-pound (107 mm) and 4-pound calibers, cast iron shells for which had many small rifles and an outer (over cast iron!) Lead shell.

    Interestingly, why make shells on a cast-iron shell a lot of small rifling, and then cover it all with a thick layer of lead?
    Although what am I talking about, it’s Shpakovsky ...
    In fact, this weapon belongs to the systems of 1867 and is an example of close cooperation between GAU RI and the Krupp company.

    And here is the form for filling the shell:
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 23 December 2017 15: 13
      Quote: Grille
      And here is the form for filling the shell:

      You have a good "trend" outlined! I’m talking about this ...: often articles “show” weapons, in particular artillery, in a “pure whole” form. Well, and, sometimes, artillery shells. But “trifles” are often omitted: bannikes, sleeping bags, chargers boxes, etc. The complete structure of the battery, like a battery moving from a traveling position to a combat position and vice versa ... (at least on the basis of "excerpts" from the charters). Finally, how the guns were cast in the 16 century; and somehow, in the 18- m ... How the "ammunition" was cast .. After all, once the tools with the "core" forming the bore were cast, then the blank with the bore of the barrel .... shells (grenades) "were screwed up from the 2's hemispheres, then" monoblock "bodies were cast. In general, there are many" near-equipment "things, which are often not covered by many authors.
      1. Grid
        Grid 29 December 2017 11: 25
        Well, look for what you are interested in.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 29 December 2017 12: 01
          Quote: Grille
          Well, look for what you are interested in.

          In fact, to some extent I have information from the “found interesting”, But “many guys” do not know! So I hinted to you: could you take on this kind of article? And the people "enlightenment", and you "glory"!
          1. Grid
            Grid 30 December 2017 01: 06
            Well, I hinted, I specifically asked, but it turned out that nobody needed it. So inauch.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 30 December 2017 03: 13
              Well, it's you in vain! The topic you mentioned is very interesting! On the Internet, of course, you can find works on the theoretical foundations of artillery, artillery shells. But "people" often do not have enough time to master the necessary information: digital numbers, graphics, "technical" language ... And if someone from knowledgeable members of the forum would write an article where, in simple, understandable “in their own words”, as if on “fingers”, explained all this, it would be great! PS And what am I to blame? Remember your first message, my answer corresponded to its content, but it was not said that the topic of "stabilization" is neither necessary nor interesting!
  14. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 26 December 2017 11: 47
    The article is very interesting, of course. good
    I had no idea about disk ammunition.
  15. gridasov
    gridasov 27 December 2017 10: 05
    The physics of the flight of a disk object is more rational, and I also wrote about it. Therefore, everything returns to normal and electromagnetic gun devices are much easier to create as such. so that the shells fly at the break-in moments of magnetic rotating fields. After all, imagine that if a disk shell is in contact with a rotating flywheel, then everyone obviously knows how it will fly. Strong rotating magnetic fluxes create the same effects. but without the so-called materialized devices, the result is the same. But the projectile flies along any given trajectory, and not in a straight line and with deviation angles in terms of gravity to the Earth. In general, everyone knows that the same gyroscopic effect can be used not only as a stabilizing device relative to the gravity vector, but also as a device that transforms rotational motion into linear motion. That is, the same projectile can theoretically be stopped in flight, and then again give it a directional linear flight vector. Only the rotation plane changes.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 27 December 2017 10: 10
      You can, of course, think that the Americans suspended the railgun development program because they nevertheless found a solution or because there are not enough brains
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 27 December 2017 10: 23
        By the way, it may sound fantastic, but it’s quite reasonable to talk about accelerating principles, for example, when a rocket takes off with a simple device and stabilizer vertical take-off. and during flight this device changes the plane of rotation of the magnetic fluxes and the rocket body shoots back with incredible force from the centrifugal forces of rotation. In fact, the same thing happens when motorcyclists enter a turn with the motorcycle tilted and give gas with a tilt above 45 degrees, then the motorcycle brakes sharply as the plane of rotation changes, and the motorcyclist “shoots”. I think this effect is seen by everyone. but few pay attention to him.
        1. Baikal
          Baikal 29 December 2017 11: 01
          My boobs, Gridastov, an astral engineer, didn’t my native Lviv region receive a handout from the Pindos Embassy and gave out a salary for July? laughing
          Gentlemen, be careful! The delirious man went hunting! laughing
    2. Grid
      Grid 29 December 2017 11: 23
      The physics of the flight of a disk object is more rational, and I also wrote about it.

      Gridasov, this was forgotten a century and a half ago. For quite objective reasons. You, a female dog, cannot be forgotten. For in your madhouse there is Internet.