Military Review

They took a cushy

38



November 23 in the sky over Syria, a landmark event occurred not only from a political but also from a military point of view. Faced the Russian and American concept of creating equipment for air combat.

On this day, the Su-25 attack aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces struck the positions of militants in the Meyadin area. Suddenly, the US Air Force F-22 fighter intervened in our aircraft. "Raptor" dangerously maneuvered, released heat traps. After some time, as specified in the Russian Ministry of Defense, the American pilot began to produce brake flaps with constant maneuvering, simulating an air battle. In response, the Russian command sent the Su-25 fighter to the Su-22 and F-35 confrontation area. His appearance for the American side was very unexpected. F-22 increased speed and retired from Syrian airspace to Iraq.

Officially, only the December 9 reported the incident to the Russian Ministry of Defense. The reason was the accusation by the Pentagon that our combat aircraft dangerously approaching American machines in the sky of Syria. Meanwhile, reports of the Rook and Raptor maneuvers have long appeared on several American and Arab online resources. Until 9 December, these sources were not taken seriously, but now the information was confirmed by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

This caused a storm in the Western, especially in the American media. Respected aviation resource The Aviationist has published a large article on the analysis of what happened. True, most foreign experts and journalists took the path of least resistance. And they wrote off everything to the next fake from the Russian Ministry of Defense. Fortunately, in recent years, our military department itself has been giving trump cards to the Western media.

Especially caustic comments received the fact that the Su-35 was able to scare and drive away the F-22. Still, "thirty-fifth" from the generation of "4 ++", and the American "Raptor" - from the fifth. And according to Western journalists, the F-22 is clearly superior to the Russian fighter. But some analysts and experts, reluctantly, recognized that in this situation, the Su-35 was a real threat to the Raptor. Moreover, the experts of The Avionist blog conducted a fairly thorough study of the capabilities of the F-22 and the "thirty-fifth", concluding that the Su-35 had very high chances to bring down the Raptor. True, the authors later seriously edited the article, removing the entire comparison of the two fighters and leaving only the description of the incident. What happened in the sky over the Syrian Meyadin.

Crowd in the syrian sky

This is not the first collision of American and Russian combat aircraft. In the summer of 2016, the aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces, allegedly Su-34, worked on the basis of the IG (banned in Russia) near the Jordanian border. The object was used by the United States and Great Britain to train moderate opposition, and shortly before our raid, there were about 30 special forces of her royal majesty.

American F-18 fighters were retargeted to the collision area. Getting close to the Russian aircraft, they made it clear that ours were bombing the wrong target, after which the Su-34 left the zone. The clash caused quite a violent reaction in the United States. But the Russian Defense Ministry said that the incident was not.

Reports of air incidents between the US allies in the anti-Igilov coalition and the Russian Aerospace Forces appeared a few more times. In particular, the German media published videos and photographs of how aircraft similar to the Su-35 escorted a Luftwaffe Tornado fighter bomber in an reconnaissance flight in Syrian airspace. Some time later, the Pentagon posted a video shot by F-18: American deckers escorted Russian Su-35 to the Syrian sky.



What is the reason for such activity in the opposition of the Russian Aerospace Forces to the Americans and their allies? The answer is simple: the US Air Force has repeatedly struck at positions of government troops, and in the summer of this year, deck aircraft of the United States even shot down the Su-22 Syrian Air Force. This was explained by the fact that he de bombed not the IS, but the "moderate" Kurds.

So what happened on November 23 fits into the big picture. Su-25 worked on specified targets in the Meyadin area. Perhaps the strike of “Rook” really fell, according to the Americans, not to those who should. But most likely the American military, entangled who is today their ally and who is the enemy, simply did not understand the situation. F-22 began to show the Su-25 pilot that he was not working on those goals. But the Russian pilot ignored the American colleague and continued to perform the task.

Due to the unique design and flight characteristics of subsonic low-altitude Su-25 is a very difficult goal for the F-22. If the aircraft of the Syrian Air Force was in place of the Russian car, the “American” would most likely have shot it down. But with the “Rook” the F-22 pilot had to demonstrate all his skills, maneuvering at low speeds.

The report of the Ministry of Defense of Russia argues that "Raptor" released brake flaps. However, the F-22 design does not include such elements. The aircraft drops speed using wing mechanisms and thrust vector variable engines. But, apparently, the Russian pilot saw that the “American” “fluffed up the wing”, and decided that the “American” had released “brake pads”.

Most likely, as soon as F-22 began to behave aggressively, the command decided to call Su-35.

With a halo, but not an eagle

Since its inception, the F-22 has been surrounded by the aura of a unique, invincible car. "Raptor" was created for long-range air combat. Its main advantage is the ability to hit targets at a great distance, while remaining invisible to the enemy radar. But the F-22 is not so invisible. The aircraft can be easily observed visually. But its main demarcating feature is the thermal footprint. It is believed that the main infrared emitter on aircraft - running engines. In particular, this is why the F-22 designers took the nozzles into special movable housings. On the one hand, these structural elements reduce heat generation, and on the other, they serve as elements of the thrust vector control mechanism.

However, the main supplier of heat - the fuselage, wings and other elements of the airframe. They seriously heat up from friction with air, and it is very problematic to hide this radiation. That is why Russia pays close attention to the development of optical-location systems. In particular, the Su-35 received a unique OLS-35, which detects the heat of aircraft at a distance of 60 – 70 (according to other data, up to 100) kilometers. Further to the pilot it is enough to direct the rocket homing head to the target using the control system. The main advantage of the OLS is that, unlike the radar, it operates in the passive mode and does not emit anything. Therefore, it is impossible to detect it.

But in order to approach the Raptor at a distance of 60 – 70 kilometers, where OLS will begin to work effectively, it is necessary to overcome the radar coverage of the American fighter. On board the F-22 is a very powerful station AN / APG-77 with an active phased array. True, the radar "Irbis", installed on the Su-35, according to its characteristics, does not really lose to the American radar. But the “thirty-fifth” is still not as radio-invisible as the Raptor. Therefore, the Russian car must break through as close as possible to the F-22. And here the unique station of electronic warfare "Khibiny" comes to the rescue of the Su-35. Its capabilities are sufficient to minimize the effectiveness of the AN / APG-77 radar. Also, the Su-35 can take a cunning maneuver - start moving closer to the F-22 at an extremely low altitude, where the relief of the terrain will hide it from the all-seeing eye of the American radar station.

At a distance of 60 – 70 kilometers, the maneuverability of the Russian fighter and the capabilities of its OLS-35 will come to the fore. Moreover, in the conditions of radio-electronic jamming, the F-22 will lose its main advantage and will no longer be able to shoot the enemy from a long range, while remaining inaccessible.

Of course, modern combat is a combination of many factors. These include airborne radar detection aircraft, anti-aircraft missile systems, ground-based and airborne electronic warfare systems, as well as automated control systems. The first theoretical papers on the possible advantages of combining OLS, EW and super-maneuverability in the West appeared at the beginning of the 2000s. That is how Australian experts justified the refusal to purchase new American F-18, while many countries in this region actively purchased the super-maneuverable Russian Su-30. True, then such conclusions were questioned. Moreover, they were called "marginal." The concept of stealth fighters dominated with not very high tactical and technical characteristics, but powerful radar and long-range missiles, the embodiment of which was the F-35.

But at the beginning of the 2010s, it turned out that optical-location stations and electronic warfare devices were a dangerous combination for the enemy. In particular, the training battles between Eurofighters and F-22 showed that the latter lose when the Europeans use their IRIS-T OLS. At the same time, Eurofighter cannot boast of good maneuverability, for which it is even called a “flying iron”, and powerful EW systems. And the US Air Force is already actively experimenting with 2015 in the direction of using overhead sighting containers in air combat.

"Dry" crept unnoticed

So, on November 23, Su-25 appeared in the Su-22 and F-35 maneuvering area. How sudden was his appearance for the USAF? Apparently, the Russian fighter has achieved a complete surprise. How did you manage it? Either the pilot activated the Khibiny and penetrated the area under their cover, or the Su-35 was walking at extremely low altitude. The latest version is supported by the fact that the Su-25 is a low-altitude vehicle. And in Syria, the “Rooks” rarely rise above five thousand meters. Based on the fact that the F-22 involved the mechanization of the wing, it was at a low altitude that the incident occurred.

Below five thousand meters and in the conditions of close combat, the advantage has completely shifted to the side of the Su-35. At the same time, the American pilot could not understand whether his Russian colleague took him on the OLS-35 or not. Probably, the heat traps mentioned in the message of the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation, which the American fighter was shooting, were an attempt to knock the optical-location station off the track. In this situation, the pilot of "Raptor" realized that he had completely lost, and preferred to retire as quickly as possible.

In essence, November 23 in a combat situation for the first time faced two concepts. “Marginal” combination of OLS, electronic warfare and ultra-maneuverability against the “trend” set of powerful radar, radar invisibility and long-range missiles. The “marginals” won behind the clear advantage, which casts doubt on everything that has been achieved by Western aviation in the last thirty years.
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Originator:
https://vpk-news.ru/articles/40364
38 comments
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  1. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 13 December 2017 05: 44 New
    +7
    Pentagon accusation that our warplanes are dangerously approaching American vehicles in the sky of Syria.
    change diapers more often ... ours always fly like that, that's normal.
    1. novel66
      novel66 13 December 2017 10: 04 New
      13
      and I specifically care about the question - why is our plane rummaging around alone? What, the war has already been canceled? to stop attack aircraft stopped? until the next shot down?
      1. dSK
        dSK 13 December 2017 11: 25 New
        +2
        Hello Roman!
        Quote: novel xnumx
        have you already canceled the war?
        Attack "direct" single Russian targets States will never be. This is lost main plus surprise effect. Indeed, in this case, Russia can carry out general mobilization. If the States succeed in catching our airborne forces in MANPADS, they will be blamed on the Mujahideen.
        1. novel66
          novel66 13 December 2017 12: 58 New
          +5
          and to you the kindest! hi I'm not sure that they have reliable brakes. they can simply refer to the insanity pilot, apologize, even punish him. will it be easier for us? the fighters are there to cover the drums, and not "overtake each other effectively"
          1. esaul
            esaul 13 December 2017 15: 33 New
            +6
            It's hard for me to judge the technical aspects, but the article is super. Apparently, quite professional, but affordable. Thanks to the author! good
      2. BAI
        BAI 13 December 2017 13: 39 New
        +3
        That surprised me too. And the attack aircraft and fighters (ours and the USA) worked alone. Somehow it all looks strange.
  2. insular
    insular 13 December 2017 05: 47 New
    11
    This caused a storm in the Western, especially in the American media. Dear aviation resource The Aviationist has published a large article on the analysis of what happened. True, most foreign experts and journalists took the path of least resistance. And they wrote off everything to the next fake from the Russian Ministry of Defense. Fortunately, in recent years, our military department itself has been giving trump cards to the Western media.
    And this time is no exception.
    I found an article on Aviationist and this is what they write there:
    Several Russian media outlets are reporting an incident that involved a US F-22 and some Russian aircraft over Syria, to the west of the Euphrates on Nov. 23, 2017. Some details of the close encounter were unveiled by the Russian MoD's spokesman, Major General Igor Konashenkov, who described the episode “as yet another example of US aircraft attempts to prevent Russian forces from carrying out strikes against Islamic State,” according to RT.

    According to the Russian account, a Russian Su-35S was scrambled after a US F-22 interfered with two Su-25s that were bombing an Islamic State target. Here's Sputnik news version:
    (further link to the satellite https://sputniknews.com/military/2017120910598533
    77-russia-us-army-syria /)

    And here’s the link to the article in the Airshianist: https://theaviationist.com/2017/12/09/usf-22-ra
    ptor-allegedly-interfered-with-russian-su-25s-ove
    r-syria-and-chased-away-by-su-35s-russian-mod-cla
    ims / # OuuMzCpzALYTS6gE.99

    Oh, these links to referring ... Aviationist just reprinted what they write in the Russian media.
    As a result, all this is a fake and a duck, because these "Russian Mass Media" referred to a certain video of the American mass media, which no one but the authors of the articles saw ...

    So who launched this fake? Foreign media or Russian media? And where is the video?
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 13 December 2017 07: 05 New
      +6
      Quote: insular
      Aviationist just reprinted what they write in the Russian media.
      As a result, all this is a fake and a duck, because these "Russian Mass Media" referred to a certain video of the American mass media, which no one but the authors of the articles saw ...

      Thanks for the find, I also try to refer to the original sources as much as possible)
  3. ImPerts
    ImPerts 13 December 2017 05: 58 New
    0
    And where can I read the information published by the Russian Ministry of Defense on this incident?
    1. insular
      insular 13 December 2017 06: 21 New
      +1
      Quote: ImPerts
      And where can I read the information published by the Russian Ministry of Defense on this incident?

      The RF Ministry of Defense did not publish this.
      There are only textual reprints in various media (including TASS), where some quotes end with the phrase
      "said Igor Konashenkov, the spokesman for the department."
      And nothing more. No links, no video on the topic. It is proposed to take a word.
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 13 December 2017 07: 25 New
        +1
        Yes, on the MO website the search engine didn’t give anything.
  4. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 13 December 2017 06: 27 New
    +5
    casts doubt on everything achieved by Western aviation thought over the past thirty years.
    So much for the praised Raptor!
  5. Nikolay R-PM
    Nikolay R-PM 13 December 2017 06: 28 New
    14
    It seems to me that this incident does not yet demonstrate the superiority of one machine over another. The incident was clearly provocative in nature and most likely the American had instructions on stopping the interception of the 25th when fighter cover appeared or taking on escort radar air defense systems.
    I wonder if the appearance of the 35th was a real surprise? Still, the 22nd is positioned as unprecedentedly aware of the air situation, in addition, Americans are constantly on duty in the sky with drills.
    Although there is a “polygon” dueling situation in the face, the clash is one-on-one, so to speak, as in the vast majority of expert articles. The fact that the 22nd interception was interrupted by the threat of aerial combat with the 35th should be trumpeted around the world and used for propaganda purposes in the best traditions of the "potential". So to speak, his enemy with his own club. Advertising is the engine of trade, and in a political confrontation, all means are good.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 13 December 2017 16: 31 New
      +1
      Aircraft AWACS against the backdrop of the earth and mountains are also poorly seen. It is better ground-based radar or visual observation from space, or near the base of some types with optics watching the air base to monitor the take-off and landing. Therefore, the question of whether the Su-35S was at the airport or in the air is interesting. It looks like the second, judging by how quickly he arrived. One can even assume that everything was done intentionally. After all, you need to check this super-invisibility - what do you think !? So the Su-35S "sat" in an ambush - maybe it will bite !? hi
      1. Nikolay R-PM
        Nikolay R-PM 13 December 2017 16: 39 New
        +3
        It is possible that, against the backdrop of an upcoming, but not yet announced reduction, the groups took measures to demonstrate strength and intentions and gave a command to be on air duty. Or maybe the Americans did have a leak of information on actions under the conditions of a political defeat in Syria, and ours "cut them".
        but interestingly, why was the American alone? After all, a tactical unit is a pair: master-slave?
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 13 December 2017 16: 49 New
          +2
          For the same "invisibility" one plane was launched, another in the Iraqi space could distract radar and air defense in Syria. hi
  6. svp67
    svp67 13 December 2017 06: 41 New
    +8
    In response, the Russian command sent a Su-25 fighter to the area of ​​confrontation between Su-22 and F-35. His appearance for the American side was very unexpected.
    And all the arguments that the F-22 sees at maximum range and does not allow "drying" to the "dog dump", the "Western partners" flew into the "trash bin"
    1. Nikolay R-PM
      Nikolay R-PM 13 December 2017 07: 59 New
      +5
      interesting remark) is it possible to repeat the Vietnamese error with the concept of the predominance of long-range missile combat?
      1. novel66
        novel66 13 December 2017 10: 00 New
        +5
        probably. moreover, how you can hide highly visible, so you can make it very visible and inconspicuous, and in the end they will be shot from each other from guns
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 13 December 2017 16: 45 New
          +3
          The Yankees will not calm down with their concept of ranged combat. I remember that they didn’t even plan to put guns and machine guns on Phantoms (if memory serves). Vietnam and Korea showed everything, but they will not calm down.
          I saw radar readings against the backdrop of the mountains - this is a complete flare, nothing is visible there. Radio waves, displayed from the mountains and returning to the receiver, all illuminate. They also speak against the background of the earth. Therefore, there is always a way to get invisible, especially with electronic warfare on board.
          Honestly surprised that the F-22 does not have OLS. The Yankees saw the MiG-29 and should have been "preoccupied" with such a station. hi
          1. sabakina
            sabakina 13 December 2017 21: 26 New
            +5
            They refused the guns, machine guns as many as 6 pieces stood on Sabers. But, like the video in one docfilm, there was only an even “line” from the machine guns on the Mig’s wing, and the wing completely tore them from our guns. Forgot the name of the movie ...
  7. Varyag77
    Varyag77 13 December 2017 08: 53 New
    +6
    There is a video on the Internet. but stated that he was circumcised. It was cut there as an amer interfered with our attack aircraft, and left only as our drying passes sharply to the right and just above the amer and comes forward. The view from the cab Amer. I saw him. It was very close. And it seems that Amer surrendered specifically, because his appearance really missed.
    On some news portal there was a link to twitter video. The video of 50 seconds lasts.
    1. region58
      region58 13 December 2017 10: 17 New
      +4
      Quote: Varyag77
      There is a video on the Internet.

      If you are talking about this moment, then there are Su-35 and Su-30. Dismantled already by the bones ...
  8. EvilLion
    EvilLion 13 December 2017 09: 22 New
    +7
    Due to its unique design and flight characteristics, the subsonic low-altitude Su-25 is a very difficult target for the F-22.


    Do the Su-25 and F-22 know about this? And how can “low speed” help “drying”? Firstly, it’s not so low, it’s far from stalling, and secondly, for the Doppler radar, a speed difference is just what you need and the optimal position for an attack is to take a rear position with a speed limit of 150-200 km / h. This is for 4 generation machines. Newer radars also provide features such as hanging helicopter detection.

    F-22 began to demonstrate to the pilot of the Su-25 that he was working for the wrong purposes.


    And do not install radios on the F-22? It is clear that it is not a matter of swearing with “drying”, but to bring information to their own base, which already have all the opportunities to communicate with the Russian command.

    Most likely, as soon as F-22 began to behave aggressively, the command decided to call Su-35.


    Call with Khmeinima? You can close your finger on the map of Syria, but in real life you can fly in a straight line for only 20 minutes.

    The report of the Ministry of Defense of Russia argues that "Raptor" released brake flaps. However, the F-22 design does not include such elements. The aircraft drops speed using wing mechanisms and thrust vector variable engines. But, apparently, the Russian pilot saw that the “American” “fluffed up the wing”, and decided that the “American” had released “brake pads”.


    Of course, I wildly apologize, but if the aircraft uses steering surfaces on the wing as air brakes (for the MiG-35, for example, they are just some shovels), is this right to call "brake flaps"? The Su-25 pilot could use either the exact term, since he could visually observe the work of mechanization, or simply say that the American was slowing down. He, in principle, doesn’t care how the amer does it, the main thing is that he can see that he resets the speed.

    From friction with air, they seriously heat up, and to hide this radiation is very problematic.


    EMNIP at altitude at a true speed of 900 km / h heating is degrees 30. Compared to the nozzle, this is nothing. This MiG-25 at 3000 km / h could bake the pilot without forced cooling.

    start approaching the F-22 at an extremely low altitude, where the terrain will hide it from the all-seeing eye of the American radar


    The author does not understand what he writes. At a low altitude, you can be outside the radio horizon of ground-based radars, for a fighter at an altitude, a low-altitude target will simply be on the background of the earth, and 50 can work precisely for such purposes for years. In addition, the whole point of using the Doppler effect is that it allows you to cut off the signal from stationary objects, that is, without making changes to the frequency, an airplane flying at great speed will stand out against this background. See above about the detection of the turntable, it itself does not move, but the rotor blades are quite luminous.

    Apparently, the Russian fighter achieved complete surprise.


    It is possible that he achieved if the enemy was turned backwards, or did not turn on the radar at all. At the same time, advertising detection ranges correspond to narrow search modes. If just a review of the space in max. volume of news, then everything is not so chocolate.
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 13 December 2017 21: 30 New
      +2
      Chavo wrote request .
  9. cannabis
    cannabis 13 December 2017 09: 26 New
    +2
    It is necessary to forbid pilots to watch in YouTube a selection of "Road Wars" and "Auto-substrates." Well, just like panimash children .....
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 13 December 2017 21: 31 New
      +2
      What kind of pilots are you talking about?
  10. Vard
    Vard 13 December 2017 09: 40 New
    +1
    You’re flying yourself ... you don’t touch anyone ... but then suddenly ...
    1. kirgiz58
      kirgiz58 13 December 2017 16: 45 New
      +1
      Quote: Vard
      You fly yourself ... you don’t touch anyone ... but then suddenly ..

      Well, almost like: "it never happened, and here again ..." (c) smile
  11. iouris
    iouris 13 December 2017 12: 24 New
    +3
    Wimps. It was necessary first to give a warning line (we are partners). “Partners” in this situation do not think long. That's why the Russian team will appear under the white flag.
  12. ver_
    ver_ 13 December 2017 12: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: iouris
    Wimps. It was necessary first to give a warning line (we are partners). “Partners” in this situation do not think long. That's why the Russian team will appear under the white flag.

    ... and Nizya try * to * sit * on him - well, so lightly, a little, a little, chi Schaub he sweated a little, a little, but the whole ...
  13. turbris
    turbris 13 December 2017 14: 00 New
    +2
    I don’t like these victorious cries based on nothing. Well, the F-22 tried to stop the Su-25 from completing the task, the Su-35 flew up and the F-22 flew away, so what? What kind of event? Where did the logos dig up the sensation? Did they want a dogfight to happen and bring down someone? The most “cool” heroes are journalists, because they don’t participate in hostilities, but knock on the keys aside, that’s why such desperate “heroes” are. All these publications are subordinate to one thing - to increase tension, and suddenly someone can’t stand it - then how much can you earn from a sensation.
    1. faiver
      faiver 13 December 2017 15: 59 New
      +1
      I agree, a bunch of victorious applause, but that there was a limited circle of people who knew and they would not be frank ...
  14. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 13 December 2017 17: 47 New
    +4
    Quote: Kasym
    Aircraft AWACS against the backdrop of the earth and mountains are also poorly seen. It is better ground-based radar or visual observation from space, or near the base of some types with optics watching the air base to monitor the take-off and landing. Therefore, the question of whether the Su-35S was at the airport or in the air is interesting. It looks like the second, judging by how quickly he arrived. One can even assume that everything was done intentionally. After all, you need to check this super-invisibility - what do you think !? So the Su-35S "sat" in an ambush - maybe it will bite !? hi

    Absolutely right. Sat on the ground in an ambush. I remind you that in Korea, maybe the same thing. Hundreds of interceptors will take off with rocket boosters when they see the enemy visually and when there is no longer any chance for long-range air combat. Fortunately, there’s no war in Korea.
  15. Yulaevich
    Yulaevich 13 December 2017 21: 15 New
    +2
    Su 25 already discovered the 22nd and transmitted information about it, su 35 flew to a ready and well-known target, possibly involving the Khibiny, i.e. 22 has already lost its trump card-invisibility. Why did 22 continue to mans alone, knowing that he was lit up? Could not imagine that a fighter would fly to help? Question. Perhaps he was a trap, and 35 victims, he could read the algorithm of these khibins. Well and further, in ideal conditions, without light, in the mode of free hunting, who will be stronger? To use Khibiny one needs to know where the enemy is, and this is unknown. So beat yourself with a heel in the chest for joy early
  16. sabakina
    sabakina 13 December 2017 21: 18 New
    +2
    Oh, if I could see another video of this “strekach” ...
  17. eplewke
    eplewke 14 December 2017 12: 36 New
    +2
    but our Ases on the SU-30SM. Just a delight. The question of over-maneuverability.
    1. iouris
      iouris 15 December 2017 23: 56 New
      0
      In the next video: "Technician for ADO holds on to LDPE."