Military Review

Once again about the "innocent Wehrmacht"

Once again about the "innocent Wehrmacht"

“Modern German historians have done more than anyone else to study the criminal war of extermination and to deconstruct the myth of the“ pure ”Wehrmacht.
Modern German politicians consistently condemn historical Nazism and the criminal war of extermination. In relation to modern neo-Nazism on the East European periphery, German politicians are not so consistent, but this has nothing to do with history. ”
Alexander Dyukov.

Only the lazy one did not speak about the naive "Novy Urengoy boy", and yet. The snag is that this case exposed another, much larger problem of modern Russian-German relations. The trouble is that we categorically lack a common understanding of the events of the Second World War. Missing as a class. Why was it possible to hide for the time being? Well, the Cold War, the Iron Curtain, the language barrier already in the post-Soviet era (Russians do not learn foreign languages, they do not teach), and the general dislike in Russia for “clarifying relations post factum” (unlike Eastern Europeans, which Russians are not).

Attempts by 60-70 years after 45, to bring the German and Russian points of view to a common denominator do not lead to anything good. It quickly becomes clear that this is absolutely impossible. There is a very thoughtful and very logical Russian point of view on the events of the Second World War, and there is a similar German point of view. But they absolutely do not want to be the same. Not at all.

While the conversation goes in general, very common (!) terms, this difference can somehow be hidden, but in any attempt to talk about the war in more or less detail, a frank scandal begins. This very “speech” and the flurry of emotions that followed it are evidence of the fact that something even reached the wider Russian public. We are with germans very look at that war differently.

From the tribune of the Bundestag, the version that the Germans are ready to hear was announced (for obvious reasons). And which in Russia causes complete rejection. That is, the matter is not at all in the “naive, poorly educated” little boy, the problem is somewhat deeper. The problem is that the Germans have their own, very specific view of that war and its crimes. While we speak little and rarely (in broken English we are trying to buy a used Volkswagen Golf), everything looks relatively good, but it’s worth digging deeper ...

The Federal Republic of Germany and its ideology were formed within the framework of the NATO bloc, therefore all crimes were focused on the problem of the Holocaust and material payments for it. The killings of millions of Slavs, as "racially inferior" (and trapped within the framework of the Warsaw Pact), were simply removed from serious discussion. And, speaking of the crimes of Nazism, the German historian, as a rule, means crimes against the Jews, but nothing more. And, mainly in Europe, that is, even Babi Yar is not very interesting to them (unlike the Warsaw ghetto).

It is difficult to understand our man, but the recognition of Nazi crimes (against Jews and their property) is the cornerstone of German post-war consciousness. This is true, and this is not propaganda. The trouble is that to the Russians in general no way, and yes, the Stalin regime was criminal. That is, it is precisely this that can be used as a provocative litmus test: the attitude of modern Germans to the violent activities of Wehrmacht soldiers on the Eastern Front and the occupied territories of the USSR. If someone magically somewhere finds something resembling repentance, I will be very grateful.

In fact, there are "innocent soldiers of the Wehrmacht." And everything, "panimaish" on the boy attacked ... he got to do with anything? If modern Germans do not have special sentiments about the mass destruction of Slavs during WWII, then what do you want from some provincial schoolchild "from the north"? Does he have to take the rap for the entire Russian historical science, diplomacy and journalism (which are so fond of "friendship" with some "new" Germany)?

No, if you read about the Germans and their vision of history “in artistic retelling” of Russian journalists, writers and historians, then all these problems are simply imperceptible (because they are hushed up!). And they are ignored for the simple reason that "Urengoi boy syndrome": they have their own "truth about the war," we "own truth about the war." And it’s impossible to reconcile these truths in any way, without causing a “boiling up of the masses”;

And a bold hypothesis about the fact that Germany fully realized and all repudiated Nazism, unfortunately, is not supported by the facts almost nothing.

“Modern German politicians consistently condemn historical Nazism and the criminal war of extermination. In relation to modern neo-Nazism on the Eastern European periphery, German politicians are not so consistent, but this has nothing to do with history. ”

Or rather, us really I want to see exactly what it was, but, unfortunately, is not. Alas and ah. Somehow it all reminds active propaganda of capitalism in 80-x - x-90. So in 80, for obvious reasons, they loved to use "positive American examples" (and here in America!), But also in the fucking 90, American "Positive examples" to use and continued. While it is currently already taken place capitalism in Russia, but for the "propaganda", he approached a little less than nothing, because "America," in which "everything is always good."

That is why as a "German understanding" for some reason it is customary to give examples is the realization of the "Lohokosta". An example is convenient because it does not cause disagreements, but if we start talking about the “criminal war of extermination” and not against France, but against Russia, and not about the extermination of Jews, but about the extermination of the Slavs ... then everything will be “not so simple” . And there are no points of mutual understanding with the modern Germans here. In principle, almost any German article “about the war in the east”, translated into Russian and available for comment, causes 800 + negative reviews, sometimes frankly obscene (“InoSMI” had a lot of fun for a long time, if anything, it was in vain that the Russian patriot trolls). Such is the Russian-German "idyll".

“Modern German politicians consistently condemn historical Nazism ...”

A "post-historical", that is, modern?

"In relation to the modern neo-Nazism in the Eastern periphery of German politicians are not so consistent, but that's history is irrelevant."

You know that when, after the WWI, the Germans banned the creation and production of various weapons, they did many things “over the hill”, in the “Scandinavian periphery,” for example. So torch processions for the time being can be carried out "on the periphery."

And why, in fact, quite a positive attitude towards the neo-Nazis in Eastern Europe "has no relation to the story?" That is, the Germans like to "realize" their crimes and the criminal nature of Nazism, "passed the Ladder" and all forgotten? Or how? Where does the impossibility of the revival of the Nazi ideology in modern Germany come from? Based on Ukrainian vector of their policies is by no means obvious. Or maybe the Germans had already tried the Nazi marches in the Baltic?

That is not us this is very, very desirable, and therefore we, like a mantra, utter a rather stupid phrase: "this should not happen again." But, sadly, the Germans have their own history and their own view of this very story. And they, in their opinion, owe us nothing.

As for the widely promoted "economic cooperation": so the Russian Empire and the Germanic trade traded to the envy of the whole world, as well as the USSR with the Third Reich ... but for some reason this did not save us from the war. Business is only business, money is only money, they have no “magic” qualities.

This desire to “put on rose-colored glasses” / “cover the head with a blanket” is present in Russia, when the Nazis are already quite openly marching in Kharkov with the full support of the European Union (led by Germany). We all convince ourselves that this is “only a mistake”, that “everything will be fine”. The history of the two world wars in which Germany attacked Russia, to the "rosy optimism", unfortunately, does not have.

I know what they will say to me in response: there were good Germans living in gingerbread houses, and then the bad Kaiser “Willy der Tsvayte” fell on them from the Moon, everyone had a bite, infected them with rabies, and they went to war with Russia. And then the “bad Hitler” fell on them from the moon, and that is typical: they also had a bite to everyone ... And then the “bad Merkel” cheburakhnulis fell on them from the same satellite of the Earth ... But a good, pro-Russian Kaiser would come to power in Berlin we are all "full Peremoga" (I "deep essence" of Russian foreign policy in the direction of the German lay out). No, there are more fantastic fairy tales, such as "a monument to Armenian-Turkish friendship". In general, the Germans would be nice to instill. From rabies. And the moon "outweigh" to another orbit. For prevention.

Photos used:
Articles from this series:
Hitler: Total War
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Dart2027
    Dart2027 14 December 2017 06: 08
    In fact, fascism, or rather what is meant by it, is the most common European practice. Concentration camps, genocide, the theory of inferior races - which of these did Hitler invent? Never mind. In fact, he was the most ordinary European politician - everyone is there, both at that time and now. And the same can be said about ordinary Wehrmacht - if for us all this is savagery and horror, then from their point of view there was nothing special, a common thing.
    As for this “boy from Urengoy,” I strongly doubt that in the Bundestag he really read the gag, rather, what they wrote to him on paper and by no means teachers at school.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 14 December 2017 06: 27
      Here, the link was about the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug, about German corporations there and their cooperation with the BND, about paying for a trip to Germany and to burial places. That's what!
      1. Varyag_0711
        Varyag_0711 14 December 2017 09: 12
        You know, I’ll give you three cases from the life of my grandfathers and grandmothers. Just do not spit right away, but rather read to the end.
        Case One. My cousin was captured during the war. And so they had a chance to escape. They ran in a group, he ran last. As a result, his leg caught on a barbed wire and hung on it. He hangs, and at this time the sentry comes up. Grandfather already mentally said goodbye to life. The German came up silently looked at his grandfather, put on his leg with a bayonet-knife and grandfather fell on that side of the wire. The German shows him - run ... Grandfather understands that now there will be a shot in the back, but nothing to run ran. He never heard the shot. He served until the end of the war. By the way, no one sent him to our Gulag and didn’t shoot him “by order” of Stalin, because he was a prisoner.
        Case Two. My grandmother fell into occupation. She was then 14 years old. The Germans went to Stalingrad exactly through us. A German doctor settled in their house. They themselves lived in a cattle shed. The Germans periodically threw them sweets, fed them like animals. Once she became very ill, there were severe colds, the shed naturally did not heat up. In general, this German doctor cured her.
        Case Three. My cousin, a five-year-old kid, was also under occupation. Once the Romanians wanted to shoot him, boy, because he asked them for food. Already put to the wall of the house, the Germans saw it. In general, the Germans saved him, they did not much favor the Romanians, maybe that’s why they saved him.
        Why did I write all this. And to the fact that the Germans, of course, they were different, BUT here there is one huge BUT! Whatever they were in relation to my family, in relation to my people they were Nazi beasts, and EVERYTHING! The doctor who was treating my grandmother quite possibly killed the thousands of lives of Soviet children. One good deed does not wash away the stigma of killers from all over the nation. And here it is not necessary to tell the boy Kolya from Urengoy how he is saddened by the fate of the German in captivity. And how did he get captured under Stalingrad? Doesn’t such a simple question come up for Boy Kolya’s confusion? What did this German forget on our land?
        No gentlemen are good, there are no good Nazis for me personally, and there won’t be until I am alive. As long as I am alive, I will remember everything and I will convey this memory to my children. And at least as long as my generation is alive, this memory will not die. There will never be any forgiveness for what you have done on my land with my people!
        And I’ll say that to Kolya’s boy. It’s very good, Kolya, that you live in Urengoy. In my city you would have been given such an educational program that you would apologize for your words every day in the central square.
        1. andrej-shironov
          andrej-shironov 14 December 2017 09: 32
          wink The Germans, they may be different, but the Nazis alone! And I, too, can tell you a couple of special cases. They are officially recorded in the papers of Nuremberg.
        2. Basil50
          Basil50 14 December 2017 09: 32
          The author touched on a topic that is carefully and consistently circumvented by almost all media, and not only in RUSSIA. You just pay attention to the Russian TV, there are invited to all sorts of different and from different countries. Almost everyone invited from abroad has the same attitude towards RUSSIANs and RUSSIA. The differences are minor. Some kind of compatriots are also freezing, the only measure for them is the attitude of the foreign countries. They do not hide the fact that their own well-being is most important to them. Foreign grants and necessarily foreign publications, lectures for them are the only measure * of scientific * and how disgusting it looks on TV.
          As a model of Tsipko, who for the title of Polish professor not only lies openly and brazenly, but also dares to teach.
        3. andj61
          andj61 14 December 2017 09: 42
          Quote: Varyag_0711
          You know, I’ll give you three cases from the life of my grandfathers and grandmothers. Just do not spit right away, but rather read to the end.

          There were similar cases in my family too. A grandmother with four children remained in the occupation.
          The Germans came, stood at a stand, drove the family out of the house into the barn. The officer’s batman examined the farm - advised to hide the piglets, which she did - in the cellar in the garden, and the entrance was covered with straw. So the piglets and kept. And the batman treated the children with sweets.
          The Germans in 41 were not particularly atrocious; Hungarians treated the local population much worse.
          This is also the case - the Hungarians slaughtered and took the last five hens from their grandmother. the grandmother complained to the batman, he went with her to the Hungarians, gave them kicks, and gave the slaughtered and under-plucked chickens to his grandmother. I really took one myself. It became much worse in the autumn of 42 and at 43. Then the partisans intensified, and the usual infantry passing units were replaced by special ones, sharpened to fight partisans. The Germans became evil, as my grandmother said. There were also victims - at the slightest suspicion they killed on the spot. But they only made the locals sleep at a standstill already in their houses — they were afraid of partisans, and so they covered themselves with local women and children.
        4. antivirus
          antivirus 14 December 2017 11: 17
          antivirus 3 November 20, 2016 12:36
          antivirus Today, 11: 59 ↑
          Sergei Gavrilovich Semenov, 1931, d. Maksimovo, Staritsky district of the Kalinin region: "We were under the German for a month and a half, but nearby, under Rzhev 1,5 g, They did not consider us to be people." At 10 years old, the child understood instinctively, everyday communication, glances and were beaten, expelled from the hut.
          + the elder brother died at the front, and 2 more were blown up on the remaining supplies in the ground (which ones? I dismantled out of curiosity, but I don’t know)
          Reply Quote Complaint More ...
          ++ even earlier, he said-- "the first doctor to go was a military doctor, oh gut ... gave a harmonica and a chocolate bar"
      2. Dart2027
        Dart2027 14 December 2017 19: 22
        Quote: Reptiloid
        Here, the link was about the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug

        Yes, I know, but in the first paragraph (Actually, fascism, or rather ...) we are talking about politics in general.
        As for speech, I may not be right, but this is not the level of a student or teacher.
    2. MrK
      MrK 17 December 2017 11: 25
      Quote: Dart2027
      Concentration camps, genocide, the theory of inferior races - which of these did Hitler invent?

      I agree. And there is nothing surprising here, if you recall that the main ideological foundation of the "Aryan race" and the "white superman" was diligently created by the Englishman Chamberlain and Frenchman Joseph de Gobino - The founder of "scientific racism", which published a book entitled: "Experience on the inequality of human races," when Adolf Hitler was written in diapers. Racism has become a natural, harmonious stage in the development of the system of European values.
  2. 210ox
    210ox 14 December 2017 06: 12
    Personally, I don’t give a damn what the Germans think and how. But I don’t give a damn what and how they teach us. And why, for the sake of the economic issue, should our principles be sacrificed? In memory of our fathers and mothers ... Our grandfathers. Our soldiers who died for us. .Ah! Gazprom! Not everything is sold and bought!
    1. Olezhek
      14 December 2017 08: 08
      Personally, I do not care what the Germans think.

      But Russian diplomacy has no right to reason like that.
    2. Rey_ka
      Rey_ka 14 December 2017 08: 19
      Aw, now is another time and full capitalism (where everything is sold and bought) You are not in trend ....
  3. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 14 December 2017 06: 13
    The author notes that the Germans now have different attitudes toward the two nations destroyed during the war, which is probably because the Germans had plans for Russia permanently. And about the territory of Israel ---- do not think. We have already entered Novy Urengoy. And the question arises about collaborationism ..
  4. Mihail55
    Mihail55 14 December 2017 06: 29
    Today, the president would like to ask a question (it’s a pity there is no technical possibility - we’re going to nurse my granddaughter) - why does he keep such a “smart” spokesperson? One in the press calls not to offend poor boy Kolya! Was this Kolya brought to court, led through the ranks, or was they just slapping him? He insulted ALL of our people with his (albeit his own, ALIEN) words ... and pat him on the head? Does such a position as your secretary suggest heartlessness to the whole people? Think Mr. President ...
    1. Olezhek
      14 December 2017 08: 05
      Do not hurt the poor boy Kohl! That Kohl was brought to court, held through the ranks, or just slapped?

      And yet, the author fully agrees that the boy is not kosher.
      We need to deal with our historians, diplomats, politicians.
      Smearing of the fact that the Germans didn’t recognize the crimes of the east nm began here a long time ago.
      This is a serious state / social problem and the persecution of a particular kid cannot achieve anything here.
      The position should be very simple: we are ready to make friends with Germany only in the event of the complete and absolute rejection of the Nazi heritage.
    2. andrej-shironov
      andrej-shironov 14 December 2017 09: 33
      wink Tell me who your spokesperson is and I’ll tell you who you are ...
      1. Petr1968
        Petr1968 14 December 2017 09: 52
        Quote: andrej-shironov
        Tell me who your spokesperson is and I’ll tell you who you are ...

        And why hide behind the ellipsis, tell everyone here what you think about the head of the spokesperson wink
        1. Antianglosax
          Antianglosax 14 December 2017 11: 00
          Quote: Petr1968
          And why hide behind the ellipsis, tell everyone here what you think about the head of the spokesperson

          I think that the chief of the secretary does not care about the Russian people and the memory of the great ancestors, as well as his two predecessors, bastards. At least ALL of his affairs speak of precisely this. That he is truly a liberal, as he personally voiced. And the “king” of him is like a ballerina from Valuev, since he really represents the interests of the shobla who plundered the USSR and now scoffs at his bones over the citizens of Russia.
          1. Petr1968
            Petr1968 15 December 2017 13: 21
            Quote: Antianglosaks
            And the “king” from him is like a ballerina from Valuev, since he really represents the interests of that shobla who plundered the USSR and now mocks at his bones the citizens of Russia.

            And what is the king better? Let's take the countries with the highest standard of living and see what kind of government there is. And also with authoritarian countries.
        2. andrej-shironov
          andrej-shironov 14 December 2017 15: 40
          wink Don’t poke me .....
          1. Petr1968
            Petr1968 15 December 2017 13: 19
            Quote: andrej-shironov
            Don’t poke me ...

            Are we not having a friendly conversation? wink
            1. andrej-shironov
              andrej-shironov 15 December 2017 16: 03
              Quote: Petr1968
              Quote: andrej-shironov
              Don’t poke me ...

              Are we not having a friendly conversation? wink

              Just having a friendly conversation implies respect. Respecting others = respect yourself. wink
  5. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 14 December 2017 06: 51
    It seems that preparations for the new “Drang nah osten” continue, again on the same “rake”: well, the Germans cannot live in peace until once again they “rob” Russia completely and from century to century! Another "trifle" is alarming and surprising is that we and the Germans "look differently" at the Second World War! For us, this is more than 28 million. Our fellow citizens who died due to the fault of Nazi Germany, but for them it’s a “normal thing”! And to heat furnaces to cook soap from people is also a common thing? If for them this is a “common thing”, then there is no place for them in the world and in vain in 1945 they were not “uprooted” all to one, humanity damn ... And the “boy Kolya” simply voiced (read) what he “slipped” uncles from the Bundestag (the descendants of the executioners from SS and the Gestapo), because you have to "pay" for a walk organized by the BND, because there are no philanthropists sitting there!
    1. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 14 December 2017 09: 24
      kartalovkolya Today, 06:51 AM New
      It seems that preparations for the new “Drang nah osten” continue, again on the same “rake”: well, the Germans cannot live in peace until once again they “rob” Russia completely and from century to century!
      Yes, the Germans in this case, the usual six performers of someone else's will. Before the Germans, the French tried on the same role, and before the French, the Swedes and Turks. Behind all of them ALWAYS stood our worst enemy - the British Empire! Now all the movements are also Anglo-Saxons. And it doesn’t matter where their center is in London or in Washington, it is important that this particular nation is our worst enemy. They always preferred to fight with us by the wrong hands. Remember the story of who stood behind the Turks when they attacked us, and climbed like a herd of rams onto a steep rock? Correctly behind them always stood the British, well, a little French. Who stood behind Hitler, English and American capital.
      So it is not Berlin that needs to be destroyed, but London with Washington!
  6. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 14 December 2017 07: 48
    Slowly, systematically, using their adherents in Russia, a story is being rewritten that should show descendants that in the 20-21 century there was no one more bloodthirsty and aggressive than the USSR (Russia). Hitler in comparison with Stalin’s infant, all the great victories won the United States, etc. And this will provide an opportunity for Europe to "financially shake" Russia financially, and preferably its territories. I won’t be surprised if in the near future they will try to accuse us of the Holocaust.
  7. Rey_ka
    Rey_ka 14 December 2017 08: 30
    It’s clear about Kolya, and why did we swallow the Italian film “Life is Beautiful”? It showed beautifully and clearly that Europe freed Europe! And what? swallowed? Have you stopped eating pasta and pizza?
    1. solzh
      solzh 14 December 2017 10: 24
      and why did we swallow the Italian film "Life is Beautiful"?

      I didn’t swallow it, I didn’t watch it at all, just as I didn’t watch the film “Enemy at the Gates” and other films about the second world production of the USA.
      1. Quzmi4
        Quzmi4 14 December 2017 13: 45
        I watched the "enemy at the gate" on the zombie. Normal such Hollywood nausea. BUT!
        Anticipating the film, they explained to Western viewers what Stalingrad was and why: "In this battle on the Volga, the whole fate of World War II was decided."
        Since then, the suspicion that this is the phrase of OUR translators does not let go, but to check the source is somehow lazy ...
      2. Petr1968
        Petr1968 14 December 2017 17: 01
        Quote: solzh
        I didn’t swallow it, I didn’t watch it at all, just as I didn’t watch the film “Enemy at the Gates” and other films about the second world production of the USA.

        And our films after the 80s? Are they better? By the way, "enemy at the gate" is a great movie!
        1. solzh
          solzh 14 December 2017 17: 23
          I did not watch, but read reviews about this film, this is enough for me to form my opinion on this "masterpiece". There is a site called The Dark Side of America there everything is written about this film.
  8. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 14 December 2017 09: 29
    Dear author! This case, in my opinion, has exposed the whole corrupt nature of the modern elite of Russia and those who hold power, who are ready to sell everything for everyone for especially chosen ones! This is the main exposure! As the saying goes: the king is naked!
  9. Russian bear
    Russian bear 14 December 2017 09: 48
    Quote: Dart2027
    This is the most common European practice. Concentration camps, genocide, the theory of inferior races - which of these did Hitler invent? Never mind. In fact, he was the most ordinary European politician - there are all
    all right, it’s enough to remember where there were “human zoos” in Antwerp, London, Barcelona, ​​Milan, New York, Warsaw, Hamburg.
  10. Petr1968
    Petr1968 14 December 2017 09: 50
    It seems that Putin and Peskov have closed the topic "to wet the boy." The report was not about the fact that the Nazis were bunnies. But a bunch of sofa dogs need a bone to grind their teeth (I personally don't mean anyone)
    1. Olezhek
      14 December 2017 10: 23
      It seems to be Putin and Peskov closed the topic "damn the boy."

      And you obviously did not read the article ....
      1. andrej-shironov
        andrej-shironov 14 December 2017 15: 42
        wink And he doesn’t have to read! He is a writer and not a reader ....
  11. cannabis
    cannabis 14 December 2017 10: 03
    In the mid-90s they called me to the city in which our regiment stood. Met, led to an abandoned military camp, asked about life in Rasea, then the plot was shown on TV. Well, I thought that everything would be left behind; So high school students who spoke good Russian were only interested in my views on the causes of the Second World War. All of them (as well as our people) were not given rest by the complete absence of truth about that war. And in our country the truth about the reasons for the defeat of our army in the summer of 1941 has not yet been revealed. None of the German memoirist generals ranging from Schellenberg to Muller-Gillerbrandt touched on the causes of the war. None of our victory marshals wrote about the reasons for the defeat of 41 years. Rezun and Isaev counted all the tanks and measured the thickness of the armor, but did not touch the truth. And she, like “The Lost Letter,” lies in plain sight, and we are deliberately forced to look under the legs and look under the lamp.
  12. wow
    wow 14 December 2017 11: 21
    Forgiveness is not and never will be! Both grandfathers died in my war. By mother, Volodya’s grandfather, in August 41st during the defense of Odessa, by father, Volodya’s grandfather, in May 45th during the storm of Prague. I saw them only in photographs of the pre-war.
  13. BAI
    BAI 14 December 2017 11: 25
    a major problem of modern Russian-German relations. The trouble is precisely that we categorically lack a common understanding of the events of World War II.

    And what could be a common understanding? There are winners and there are losers who consider themselves unfairly defeated (show at least one loser who will say: “Yes, I foolishly got into the war and suffered a deserved defeat.” The losers will always seek excuses, the winners will never doubt their innocence. And there will never be any "concentration" here.
  14. Ural resident
    Ural resident 14 December 2017 11: 58
    "all crimes were concentrated on the Holocaust and material payments for it. The killings of millions of Slavs as" racially inferior "(and found themselves under the Warsaw Pact) were simply removed from a serious discussion" -
    I always thought and talked about it. Jews were able to achieve for themselves the recognition of the Holocaust, but apparently, this goal was not set for us. The GDR was once considered a friendly country - we were taught German at school and talked about the friendship of peoples. But in Soviet times, at least ideology worked - how many films about the war were made. Since the 90s, the theme of war has not been raised at all. Only on May 9, and even then only on holiday - the 10th is already silence. I was surprised when senior pupils in the gymnasium asked my question about the war: "with whom did we fight and for what?".
    All this fits into the general democratic policy of our government. I always argued, we don’t have to try to make friends with anyone, it’s not worthy of a great country and it’s useless. We must be able to defend our painful issues, be the initiator and not the defender, forcing others to make excuses, including for the crimes of their ancestors. and not only Germans but the same Hungarians, Romanians, etc. Jews are not shy about their means and are not afraid of anything - they can sever relations with any nation if it does not respect Jews. National dignity is more important for them - because the Holocaust is now considered the main crime of Nazism.
  15. Conductor
    Conductor 14 December 2017 12: 02
    The question is, in what family was this Kolya brought up?
  16. apro
    apro 14 December 2017 12: 24
    In the Patriotic War, they killed us as Soviet, now the population of the country was like the Russians, when the country was socialist, people's property, goal-setting is a happy future for everyone, today capitalism with all that it implies, captures the difference? How does Russian capitalists need to establish relations with their partners, at the expense of our money, memory, future.
  17. tveritianin
    tveritianin 14 December 2017 13: 32
    I’ll make a reservation right away. Colleagues, I am not a Ukrainophobe, but I propose to look at the Urengoy boy from an unusual perspective.
    Does it not seem strange to you that this boy appeared from the area where the convicted former Benderaites were sitting, where some of them settled after their imprisonment. for different reasons. And who in our north developed the fields on a rotational basis? correctly the vast majority are still residents of Soviet Ukraine. And who stood up for the boy? Mayor with a Ukrainian surname, director of a college with a Ukrainian surname, teacher with a Ukrainian surname. What is Kolya’s last name? I’m not looking for fleas in the mattress, I don’t reproach all nationality, but it painfully looks like an internal collaboration of ideas. We are reaping the fruits of Mr. Fursenko’s “smartest” education reform and our society’s lack of a consolidated view of the history of the Great Patriotic War. Therefore, circuits, wellers, gozmans, sityns and others like them from our TV screens on Federal channels broadcast their rotten views only because the hosts of these programs want to invite them for a change. It’s a pity that we cannot influence the leadership of these channels. But in fact, these people’s access to the Federal channels should be closed, because they do not bring an alternative view of History, but propagandize the apologetics of Nazism, Naziism and liberal lawlessness, which claimed the lives of almost 16 million Russian citizens in the 90s as a result of their " the ideological transformations of our country. Somehow. I do not pretend to the ultimate truth.
    1. Quzmi4
      Quzmi4 14 December 2017 13: 50
      Yes, how much is already possible!
      Do not offend the honest inhabitants of Bender, confusing them with the admirers of Stepan Bandera!
      And about personalities - it seems like they’ve already searched out that not only surnames, but also arrived recently from here ...
    2. Lnglr
      Lnglr 14 December 2017 15: 00
      Always touched by people who like to cling to Weller for and without reason))))
      Revenues are now redistributed so that the top gets as much as possible, and the lower classes get as little as possible
      (C) M. Weller
  18. Earnest
    Earnest 14 December 2017 16: 32
    I know firsthand about the attitude of modern Germans towards the Second World War, as the brother of my great-grandfather, a Volga German, who had been driven into Germany as a teenager, remained in the western zone of occupation. In the nineties, family ties were restored, we communicate quite a lot, especially the older generation. Among my relatives, the German News in Russian resource is quite popular. This is how their columnist Vadim Feldman described the situation with the Kolya boy (
    a /):
    Crime of peace
    30.11.2017 Gesellaschaft, topblog, column, Feldman
    A boy from Urengoy made a speech in the Bundestag, and told the world a sensation - not all Germans wanted to fight in the Second World War. He spoke about the sad fate of one of the prisoners of war and wished that there were no longer well-organized meat grinders.
    Notice, he did not tell the Bundestag anything revolutionary: he did not denounce the criminal role of the Stalinist government at the beginning of World War II, did not recall the joint parades of Hitler and Stalin in Brest in 1939, did not speak about the redivision of Europe by the USSR and the Third Reich ...
    I didn’t recall that in the victorious country, before the start of the victory, newspapers appeared with excuses of Nazism - until June 1941. I did not repeat the information about the 500 000 repressed by the Soviet troops balts. He did not remind Europe of the occupation of the NKVD of Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, etc. after the Second World War.
    The boy did not pedal the theme of the allies whom the Russian Federation is trying to forget, although the war was won on American tanks, planes, loans, and even ate all the way, mainly American stew.
    The boy simply wished the world peace. Apparently, in modern Russia this is already a sign of extremism. Of course, prisoners of war should be killed, tortured, tortured, especially ordinary soldiers called up by force and set up for political goals ... Humanism is a religion prohibited in Russia along with ISIS.
    Putin’s sixes (Putin himself didn’t seem to have joined the persecution) do not understand that, based on this logic, it will be possible to judge Russian conscripts who are fighting without shoulder straps and conscience in Ukraine, in Georgia, who are constantly lost in Rostov’s maneuvers, but who are found in DNR.
    To me personally, the performance of the Urengoy guy brought hopes about the historical Motherland, from where only ruthenium usually flies.
    It was sustained in exactly the same way as now, after 70 years, we need to talk about MV2: without accusations against the great-grandchildren of those who fought, without appropriating the victory won by grandfathers; without global conclusions and historical generalizations from scratch. It is necessary to speak of a war that has died out so long ago in this tone — the tone of humanism, love for an individual person.
    If the “ordinary soldiers” then had the opportunity to talk about this not only in the Bundestag, but at least with their relatives, and not been forced to die in the interests of the Communists and fascists, who knows what history would be like now?
    Although, after the mass support by the Russians of the occupation of Crimea and part of Ukraine, which happened in peacetime of the free Internet, you no longer know which of the subjunctive moods to believe.
    I understand that it was a project in the framework of a history lesson. Well, the boy from Urengoy wanted to study someone else's, but he knew his own. Now he himself lives in the world of Grossman and with all his heart he must understand what insanity fogs authoritarian Russian society, and why the ordinary German army died without trial after the capture.
    Totalitarianism does not divide the world into strangers and its own. The USSR did not spare their own people, to say nothing of the enemy.
    The most terrible, in my opinion, conclusion of the Second World War is just Grossman’s lesson about how you can break through weapons from one concentration camp to another (formulated in this short phrase after the death of the writer). Or you can die in the first, or escape from your camp to destroy another, but then you will be forced to return to the first. That's the whole simple set of options.
    There is only one option - to live and let others live.
    And in this regard - the boy at least tried.

    And most of these "columnists" from the point of view of people close to me in Germany. They really, to put it mildly, do not like Putin, and as a result, they are surprised at our support of the leader that you hate. "How can you vote for Putin, he is ... (insert any nonsense)," is an absolutely typical expression of the average man.
  19. iaroslav.mudryi
    iaroslav.mudryi 14 December 2017 18: 47
    Once again about the "innocent Wehrmacht" ........ the Germans would be nice to instill

    I made a comment on the last topic, “Good boy Kolya from Novy Urengoy,” I will repeat a little: both Kolya's boys and the Germans need to be “vaccinated”:
    1) to drive them to the cinema and show the film “Go and See” (the film was based on the works of Ales Adamovich “Khatyn Story”, “Partisans” and “Punishers”), in the 1985 year, when the film was released, Belarusian schools canceled classes and schoolchildren entire classes led to watch this VERY HEAVY film, so that they knew and remembered ...
    COME AND SEE with this name, the dubbed film in 1986 was shown in eleven countries, mostly European, but was also shown in North America and Asia. The film stunned Western audiences and film critics. If interested, read the details here: Go_and_see

  20. iaroslav.mudryi
    iaroslav.mudryi 14 December 2017 19: 25
    Once again about the "innocent Wehrmacht" ........ the Germans would be nice to instill

    About 20 years ago, I got into the hands of our Russian edition of a dozen books about the 2-th World War, these were translations of American historians (in the USSR I remember they were called falsified historians), there were volumes: "Commanders of the 3-th Reich", " Waffen ss divisions "and others. One of the books was devoted to bullying and inhuman experiments on prisoners that were created by representatives of the" higher race ", here is a fragment of the" Monstrous Experiments of Dr. Sigmund Rasher ":

    In the summer of 1942, Mr. Sigmund Rasher, a doctor at the Luftwaffe Research Institute, suggested that the command conduct research on a comprehensive study of the performance of pilots in stratospheric flight conditions. Rasher gained fame among specialists a year earlier, when, on his initiative, studies were conducted on the effects on people of low atmospheric pressure. On the basis of the Dachau concentration camp, a medical laboratory was developed with a pressure chamber, in which air pressure was simulated at different altitudes (up to 10 km.). Of the more than 200 prisoners involved in Rasher’s work, then 80 people died. For his research 10 October 1942 Mr. Rasher received a congratulatory address and a cash prize from the Inspector General of Aviation Medicine Dr. Hipke.
    Air was pumped out of the unit so that the conditions for the absence of oxygen and low pressure, typical for high altitudes, were simulated. After that, Dr. Rasher set about observing:
    “The third experiment was carried out in the absence of oxygen corresponding to an altitude of 8820 meters. The subject was a Jew of 37 years in good physical condition. Breathing continued for 30 minutes. Four minutes after the start, the subject began to cover himself and turn his head.
    Five minutes later cramps appeared; between the sixth and tenth minutes, the respiratory rate increased, the subject began to lose consciousness. From the eleventh to the thirtieth minute, breathing slowed down to three breaths per minute and completely stopped by the end of the trial ... Half an hour after the cessation of breathing, an autopsy began. "
    The Austrian prisoner Anton Pacholeg, who worked in Dr. Rasher’s department, described the “experiments” in a less scientific language: “I personally saw through the viewing chamber of the pressure chamber how the prisoners transferred the vacuum until the lungs burst. They went crazy, tore their hair, trying to relieve pressure.
    They scratched their heads and faces with their nails and tried to cripple themselves in a fit of insanity, beat their heads against the walls and shouted, trying to ease the pressure on the eardrums.
    Such experiments ended, as a rule, with the death of the subjects. "

    This is what the Germans must read and show to the gentlemen in their Bundestag! And not "boys of ruts from urengoy"!

    More details here, sources:
    2 / 12 / chudovishnye_opyty_doktora_zigmunda_rashera /
  21. iaroslav.mudryi
    iaroslav.mudryi 14 December 2017 19: 37
    ... and more: "For" deceiving the confidence of the party and the German people, "Sigmund Rasher was thrown into the special bunker of the Buchenwald concentration camp, where especially dangerous and important criminals were placed. The doctor’s wife went to Ravensbrück, where she was hanged after a failed escape attempt [5] "At the end of the war, Rasher was transferred to Dachau, where on 26 on April 1945, the day before the liberation of the camp, he was shot in the back of the head."
  22. VeteranVSSSR
    VeteranVSSSR 14 December 2017 23: 14
    This is about my father. The truth was that he still had Trostenets and had a successful escape. And then he walked from Minsk to Berlin. He died in 1963.
    Mom and father (my grandfather) were driven to Germany, after the release of the Americans returned home.
    Step-father, born in 1930, the birthplace of the village of Dobrynevo. The village was completely burnt with the inhabitants. He was able to escape himself and save two girls 6 and 9 years old.
    The second grandfather lost his leg to the Imperialist-St George Knight. His sibling (my cousin) commanded a warship of the US Navy, took a direct parte in battle battles of World War 2.
    And to forget all this ??? As long as the memory lives in our children and grandchildren, no one since Urengoy deserves a lot of attention, we ourselves are talking about such things, we make them famous ...
  23. Terenin
    Terenin 14 December 2017 23: 20
    So in 1941, “innocent victims who didn’t want to die” came to our land from Europe and took away from us, our living, unborn brothers, grand-nephews, other relatives, as well as interesting and good friends, neighbors, useful workers, engineers and scientists ...
    Do these state-owned corporations really not understand the policies of their European counterparties? What kind of people are there working in these oil and gas companies, are they really only having one dollar in their eyes and brains ???
  24. datur
    datur 14 December 2017 23: 46
  25. Clone
    Clone 17 December 2017 21: 43
    One must "remember everything and forgive nothing." (c) I suppose that will be correct. As soon as "we" forgive something, the feet of the forgiven are at the "us" on the neck.
  26. 1536
    1536 18 December 2017 13: 05
    The law must be adopted with the criminal penalties for denying the crimes of the Nazi troops in the occupied territory of Russia during the 1941-1944 years, regardless of the membership of various military formations of fascist Germany in its various military and state structures. Only in this case will this braggie stop or slow down with the thesis that “they were the same hard workers” and “my mother told me” in relation to the Nazi occupiers.