Military Review

Creation of a new engine for Su-57 breaks the unfortunate tradition of the Soviet era

55
Russia has proved itself capable of creating the most complicated technical systems, this is exactly what the first flight of the fifth-generation Su-57 fighter with the "30 Product" engine demonstrated. The development of this engine not only became a major engineering victory, but also allowed us to say that Russia is overcoming one of the most negative tendencies of Soviet aircraft construction.




On Wednesday, the first fifth-generation fighter aircraft of the fifth generation Su-57 (known as PAK FA and T-50) were published with the new Type-30 engine (or Product-30). The flight lasting about a quarter of an hour was accomplished on the eve of by the chief pilot of the Sukhoi company, a test pilot, the Hero of Russia Sergey Bogdan. It was reported that the flight went well.

The Type-30 engine for the Su-57 fighter is called a completely new development. It has many advantages, the main of which was increased traction with reduced fuel consumption and new electronic systems.

As a result, engineers were able to increase the maneuverability of the aircraft. Thanks to this engine, the aircraft will be able to make long flights at supersonic speed without afterburner. It was the lack of a new modern engine that was one of the arguments of those who refused to call the Su-57 fighter a fifth-generation car.

Now the government is confident that a successful flight with a new engine "gives an additional impetus to the program of the fifth-generation fighter." “This is proof of the high potential of the Russian aircraft industry, capable of creating highly intelligent advanced systems - a unique airframe, innovative digital stuffing, and the newest engines,” said Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov on the eve.

What a new engine will help a new fighter

The first flight of the Su-57 took place back in 2010, but then it took place with the engine of the “first stage” (“Product-117”) - an upgraded version of the AL-41F1С engine from fourth-generation fighter Su-35C. He was significantly inferior to his American counterparts.

The new engine - "Product-30" - was developed in cooperation of all the design bureaus of the United Engine Corporation (UEC), in particular NPO Saturn. When creating it, engineers applied not only new materials, but also technologies. The result is a unique high-pressure compressor.

One of the Russian know-how was the extremely complex design of the turbine blade. It was made from unique heat-resistant nickel alloys. There was nothing like that in the engine of the first stage. In the American press, the local counterpart of the Russian engine was called "the pinnacle of engineering thought."

“It is the new engine that should fit the Su-57 aircraft into the declared characteristics that make it fully fighter of the fifth generation,” Oleg Panteleev, an expert in the field of aircraft engineering, executive director of the portal Aviaport.ru, said in a commentary to the VZGLYAD commentary. The interviewee explained: in terms of the parameters, firstly, of the cruising supersonic in the driveless mode and, secondly, the reduction of visibility in different ranges of the new product provides significant advantages compared to the engine of the first stage.



Further, such factors as increased specific indicators start to work: specific gravity and specific thrust - all this gives the best performance in terms of what experts call “thrust-to-weight ratio”. “One of the main parameters that characterizes the technical perfection of an engine for a fighter is the ratio of its thrust to weight. The better this attitude, the aircraft as a whole turns out to have better characteristics, ”explained Alexey Komarov, chairman of the editorial board of the Air Transport Observer magazine, in a comment to VZGLYAD.

“This engine is different in that its efficiency should be higher if speaking in a philistine language,” the expert noted. - There are requirements for higher reliability, for a longer life cycle. The combination of these parameters and characterizes the engine of a new generation. "

Accordingly, increases maneuverability, there is the possibility to increase the payload and so on. For all the main characteristics, the product of the second stage is a significant step forward compared to the previous one, experts note.

Overcoming the negative tradition

According to experts, successful tests of the Type-30 engine allow Russia to overcome the unkind tradition of the Soviet era. For example, when creating the M-50 strategic bomber, the designers did not manage to bring the M16-17 turbojet to standard, therefore, the tests were carried out with the VD-7 engine, but in the beginning of 1960's the project was closed ahead of schedule as it did not show the required characteristics.

“Unfortunately, the bad tradition of the Soviet times was to underestimate the complexity of creating an aircraft engine,” Oleg Panteleev notes. - As a rule, we realized that it was necessary to make a new engine, when the designers of the aircraft were already beginning to promise new characteristics to the customer. As a result, the “dvigatelistov” urgently tugged: they say that you can offer us, they created increased obligations. There were precedents when projects did not take off due to the lack of a suitable engine, ”said Panteleev.

Alexey Komarov agrees with this. “Previously, many characteristics of engines, materials, and so on turned out to be as they were. That is, the designers pawned something, but then there was a very important stage of refinement and improvement. And in some cases, it was not possible to achieve the parameters that were set during the design, ”he said.
“Now the science of design has gone far ahead, it is based on powerful computer calculations and modeling,” said the source. “And therefore, the degree of credibility of what happens with respect to what the designers wanted to do is much higher.” Therefore, I assume that there can be no such failures at this stage. ”

“It is still a long time to work”

The first flight with a new engine is a very important stage, Komarov is sure. “The engine is put on the prototype after it has undergone a rather long test cycle both on the ground stands and on flying laboratories,” the source stressed, adding that this is already a more serious prototype.

“The engine is one of the most important systems requiring the largest investments in money and time,” he explained. At the same time, it is still a long time to work before it is fully ready, Komarov said.

"The combat unit, which is a front-line fighter, in addition to the airframe includes elements associated with the control system weapons, engine, weapon system. Only when all these elements will be fully developed, it can be said that the aircraft fully complies with the task set before the developers, the expert emphasized. “So far, at the stage of testing, at the stage of fine-tuning, various systems and subsystems, including the engine, may still not meet the necessary parameters.”

But “the first flight with a new engine brings closer the moment of completion of the creation of the entire aircraft and weapons systems. In addition to the plane, this aviation escort tools that are first used on this machine, and ground-based systems, diagnostic systems, and so on, ”Panteleev said.

“In general, for domestic VKS this is a transition to a new level. Now from the point of view of the engine, there is confidence that all the characteristics will be at the highest level, ”Panteleyev said.
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  1. a.sirin
    a.sirin 10 December 2017 16: 02 New
    +5
    I consider this project a mistake.
    when considering the creation of a promising aviation complex, emphasis should be placed on the possibility of large volumes of aircraft production, to a certain extent specializing in air defense capabilities in the first place. The large, multi-purpose and expensive Su-57 in the current economic situation, in principle, can not be produced in significant quantities, by virtue of which it will remain small and, therefore, extremely expensive to manufacture. By virtue of this, he:
    1) will not be interesting in foreign markets
    2) it will have problems with reliability and maintenance (like everything in fact piecewise)
    It was necessary to develop a MIG-29 class aircraft with 1 or 2 engines, with particular emphasis on the possibility of using the entire range of air-to-air missile defense systems on the internal suspension, while developing an export version in several versions.
    The strike functions of the Air Force should be transferred to SU-34, with a gradual transition to a "two-aircraft composition of the Air Force by 2030 = 2040 years."
    I consider the current approach to the formation of the Air Force "with an eye" on the capabilities and methodology of the United States regarding the use of the Air Force to be extremely erroneous, costly and not feasible
    1. 210ox
      210ox 10 December 2017 16: 29 New
      +8
      Traditions are the constant execution of any actions. And this example from the beginning of the 60s doesn’t draw on an unkind tradition. Khrushchev gave aviation to slaughter, that's all. And this laudatory ode is about nothing. .And how they change their mind with Barguzin ..
      Quote: a.sirin
      I consider this project a mistake.
      when considering the creation of a promising aviation complex, emphasis should be placed on the possibility of large volumes of aircraft production, to a certain extent specializing in air defense capabilities in the first place. The large, multi-purpose and expensive Su-57 in the current economic situation, in principle, can not be produced in significant quantities, by virtue of which it will remain small and, therefore, extremely expensive to manufacture. By virtue of this, he:
      1) will not be interesting in foreign markets
      2) it will have problems with reliability and maintenance (like everything in fact piecewise)
      It was necessary to develop a MIG-29 class aircraft with 1 or 2 engines, with particular emphasis on the possibility of using the entire range of air-to-air missile defense systems on the internal suspension, while developing an export version in several versions.
      The strike functions of the Air Force should be transferred to SU-34, with a gradual transition to a "two-aircraft composition of the Air Force by 2030 = 2040 years."
      I consider the current approach to the formation of the Air Force "with an eye" on the capabilities and methodology of the United States regarding the use of the Air Force to be extremely erroneous, costly and not feasible
    2. seti
      seti 10 December 2017 16: 34 New
      12
      Quote: a.sirin
      I consider this project a mistake.

      In the current circumstances, do we need a new 5 generation fighter or not? I need it. Why is it needed? Because we need a technique that must destroy equal (or superior) enemy technology. If we do not create technology for today or the future, then we run the risk of lagging behind in development and catching up and overtaking as shown by 90 is now very, very difficult. Even a year means a lot.
      The project of this engine say you won’t pay for itself? And how can you recoup the country's defense capability? Do not want to create your own, invest in your people? We'll have to feed foreign engineers / designers or the army of the enemy. Personally, my opinion is that the engine will pay for itself if it is as good as they say about it. Especially with the plane. The Chinese and Indians still compete for its counterparts. As in due time for C-400.
      Well, the last thing - you need to look for applications to the technologies obtained in the civilian sphere. We are not looking for them to use - then this is our cant.
      1. a.sirin
        a.sirin 10 December 2017 16: 56 New
        +5
        You wrote it all right. But - not on the topic that I tried to voice.
        1) I do not mind, but for the development of a new engine
        2) I am in favor of the development of the 5th generation aircraft
        3) I completely agree with the need for extensive research and development on these topics.
        But I’m talking about something else: when choosing the concept of a promising aircraft, the economic and military-technical factors and parameters that determine the goals and the possibilities of achieving them in a real rather than speculative perspective were not taken into account.
        The point is not a specific engine, but the concept of using combat aircraft of the Russian Air Force, taking into account the economic capabilities of the state.

        But the Chinese and Indians will not compete for the possession of these "achievements" - the Russian Federation will be all ... trying to get them into partners
        1. seti
          seti 10 December 2017 18: 55 New
          +8
          Quote: a.sirin
          But I’m talking about something else: when choosing the concept of a promising aircraft, the economic and military-technical factors and parameters that determine the goals and the possibilities of achieving them in a real rather than speculative perspective were not taken into account.
          The point is not a specific engine, but the concept of using combat aircraft of the Russian Air Force, taking into account the economic capabilities of the state.

          Just all this was taken into account.
          In this situation, you can’t sit still; you don’t have to go, but run forward. Looking under the legs and around. Now everything is decided by the presence of brains. Both the management and the engineering base .. As long as there are designers in the state, their work needs to be used. In order to develop what we have and pass on knowledge to a new generation .. Otherwise, we will soon be left without any design ideas .. And we will be subsequently destroyed. Earlier in the engine industry we lagged behind the countries of the West and then, in general, there was an 10-year stagnation which led to the degradation of aircraft construction in our country. Now, due to new circumstances and little attention, it is possible to design and create not only new aircraft, but more importantly, new engines. Both military and civilian ..
          Already in the world there are developments and developments of 6-generation aircraft that are likely to be without pilot .. This can not be so easily dismissed. You need to create your own and rely only on yourself.
          Understand - MiG-29, Su-30 and Su-35 in different versions are great aircraft, but to fight on equal footing with promising enemy vehicles and to defeat them, you need something new.
          Quote: a.sirin
          But the Chinese and Indians will not compete for the possession of these "achievements" - the Russian Federation will be all ... trying to get them into partners

          Until now, they have not created anything like this. And they’re unlikely to create it. No technology, no access to new materials .. And Western countries will not sell it to them. From the word at all. Especially the Chinese who are famous for their copying. So they have one way out - to cooperate with us. What we can share with them.
          The better our aircraft and the more reliable our engines, the more orders we have. This is in fair competition. But it is not conscientious, and those countries who are not averse to buying something from us are forced to strictly orient ourselves to the products of Western countries. And even in such conditions there are exceptions. And there is no alternative to products like Airbus and Boeing. Like the F-35. How do we compete with them if we do not create engines like the 30 and PD-14 products?
          Now we have them and that means there is a future for Su-57 and MS-21. And there is an alternative. The matter is mass production. New engines and planes will pay for themselves. And new developments.
          1. a.sirin
            a.sirin 10 December 2017 20: 00 New
            +2
            You do not seem to understand what I'm talking about. It’s not about stopping in development, but about creating what is needed and capable. Including economic and export-oriented.
            An example is F-35.
            Su-57 will not be released in any significant quantities, there will not be enough money or resources. It will be expensive, unreliable, without significant export potential.
            1. KaPToC
              KaPToC 10 December 2017 20: 38 New
              +2
              Quote: a.sirin
              Including economic and export-oriented.

              What for us export? The arms trade is a policy of who will buy with us, who will not buy with us anyway, regardless of the economy.
              1. a.sirin
                a.sirin 11 December 2017 00: 06 New
                +1
                India - with us or not? There is a tender, we lose or win.
                Saudi Arabia - with us or not? South Korea? etc.
                1. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 11 December 2017 00: 10 New
                  0
                  Quote: a.sirin
                  India - with us or not? There is a tender, we lose or win.
                  Saudi Arabia - with us or not? South Korea? etc.

                  Do you yourself believe in your arguments?
              2. asr55
                asr55 14 July 2019 09: 11 New
                0
                arms trading is a huge income
            2. seti
              seti 10 December 2017 20: 39 New
              +6
              We are already creating what we can do. And if we do not create and improve airplanes like Su-57 then we will have the edge. Do you even understand this?
              Expensive ? Of course. Unreliable speak? About Su-35S, too, at one time they said so. And about the MiG-29 .. There will be problems, but they are sure to be solved.
              Without significant export potential? Maybe you are right. Due to the fact that very few can buy it. Since it is not enough to buy it, you also need to maintain and operate it correctly. Training pilots in the end is also an expensive thing. But if there is a modern war, such an aircraft will be indispensable. Like the Armata tank.
              So decide on the phrase "create what we need and we can." You cannot create / upgrade Su-30 and Su-35 endlessly - the opponents will go ahead and catch up with them out of the blue ... They may simply not give us time.
              1. a.sirin
                a.sirin 11 December 2017 00: 04 New
                +1
                You do not understand what I'm talking about.
                Or do not understand, or I say it is not clear
                1. asr55
                  asr55 14 July 2019 09: 30 New
                  0
                  You probably yourself do not understand well what you write "I consider this project a mistake. ..." What is not clear here. And the proofs of your words are continuous delusions, so deep that it makes no sense to discuss.
            3. BastaKarapuzik And
              BastaKarapuzik And 11 December 2017 00: 10 New
              +1
              Do you need a new engine? In any case, this is a significant part of the costs and just a necessity. Do not get away from creating a new engine. An experimental batch of su-57 is needed in the troops. And further on, the operation of this aircraft will show whether it is capable of performing tasks inaccessible to aircraft of past generations, or nothing fundamentally important in these technologies. So there is no mistake. And the engines and the radar, and much more, which they will probably put on modernized cars of previous years of production, do not exclude one another.
          2. Lock36
            Lock36 10 December 2017 22: 24 New
            +1
            Quote: seti
            Until now, they have not created anything like this. And they’re unlikely to create it. No technology, no access to new materials ..

            I agree that rarely in modern psychosis "about Great China" is aware of this ...
      2. a.sirin
        a.sirin 10 December 2017 17: 03 New
        +7
        Regarding the application of "acquired technologies in the civilian sphere" - in the current economic situation, in principle, it is not realistic - only trifles. The fact is that Western companies involved in the production of military-technical cooperation (military-technical products) in the vast majority of cases rely on the products of companies that, in turn, produce a commercial - market - product. Having enormous volumes of production and, accordingly, funds for research and development in their field, they easily and without much stress provide the military-industrial complex with the necessary range of supplies. Naturally, the production of spare parts and other things as well, as a rule, is provided easily (although there are reverse examples).
        In Russia this is not. The reason is the extremely low purchasing power of both the population and companies - after all, our products, produced in a miserable way, are expensive and not very reliable. Therefore, for "them" the arms race is a good additional business and opportunities, for the Russian Federation - ruin.
        1. _Jack_
          _Jack_ 10 December 2017 18: 09 New
          +2
          Each subsequent generation of military equipment is significantly more expensive than the previous one, nothing can be done about it, if we do not want to allow a serious technological gap, modern and expensive weapons will have to be made, otherwise our army is doomed in the event of a real conflict. Even the previous generation, for example the Su-35, cannot be called cheap, let alone the 5th generation.
    3. GAF
      GAF 10 December 2017 17: 13 New
      +3
      Quote: a.sirin
      I think this project is a mistake .....
      I consider the current approach to the formation of the Air Force "with an eye" on the capabilities and methodology of the United States regarding the use of the Air Force to be extremely erroneous, costly and not feasible

      You propose to limit yourself to "Rus plywood" - cheap and cheerful, and most importantly a lot. Then it was justified by harsh circumstances. The decision was forced. Now, what prevents cool weapons. There are technologies and materials, and time is not as tight as on the eve of the Second World War.
      1. a.sirin
        a.sirin 10 December 2017 18: 08 New
        +3
        "Cool weapons" and an economically / military-technically unsound project - 2 things are different.
        As for the Rus-plywood, the all-metal version of the Yak-3 with the VK-107 engine, in case the second was completed, was an almost ideal front-line fighter for WWII
        The conversation is actually long and big. You, like many (very) military leaders. departments of the zero years do not realize that the tasks of the US Air Force and Russia are somewhat different.
        Let's just say: I was involved in some planning issues regarding promising military-technical cooperation at that time. mistakes were already made at the level of philosophy.
        The consequences are already visible (to me), it will soon become noticeable to you
        1. medvedron
          medvedron 10 December 2017 19: 09 New
          0
          And did you consider investing money in training a large number of pilots for old aircraft, which will be shot down in packs in a real conflict? Or is the human resource not important for you?
          1. a.sirin
            a.sirin 10 December 2017 19: 54 New
            +3
            This is not about the "old", but about new ones that meet the needs and capabilities of the Russian Air Force
            1. medvedron
              medvedron 11 December 2017 00: 27 New
              0
              So they are morally obsolete. So you can restore the production of the T-34, what for Armata start to do?
            2. Krabik
              Krabik 11 December 2017 00: 29 New
              +1
              I’m wondering if everyone forgot about the T-14 or about it ?!
            3. zhekazs
              zhekazs 14 December 2017 03: 48 New
              +1
              Quote: a.sirin
              meeting the needs and capabilities of the Russian Air Force

              Conversation of the dumb with the deaf. They don’t want to hear you.
    4. turbris
      turbris 11 December 2017 15: 57 New
      +1
      Well, you are very mistaken! We do not need Su-57 in huge quantities, it must act where the F-22 and F-35 appear, and the Su-30 and Su-35 will successfully cope with other types of aircraft. The appearance of the 5th generation aircraft is a new step in the development of the entire aviation complex and it does not matter whether it will be sold or not, the main thing is that we learned how to build it, mastered new technologies, created a new engine, new weapons systems - that’s what matters! Do you propose to stop developing and continue to rivet the Su-34?
      1. a.sirin
        a.sirin 11 December 2017 20: 22 New
        +2
        Once again, slowly and "spelling": you need a 5th generation aircraft, which Russia can produce in relatively large quantities. A small number of Su-57s - by the way, how much is “small” - will not be able to act effectively against more than 150 “Reptors” and many hundreds of F-35s. The latter are going to be produced in some, in my opinion, fantastic number about 2 thousand units The point was to create a MiG-29 class aircraft (18-24 tons) with internal suspension of B-B armament with limited tolerance for the use of B-XNUMX ammunition.
        If we talk about "difficulties, the creation of the Su-57 rested in many respects on the development of a huge thrust engine. If other proposals were accepted, then it would be about creating a motor with significantly less thrust (12-15 tons) capable of providing non-afterburner cruising flight at relatively low fuel consumption.
        Taking into account our not very high experience in creating highly reliable engines, the possibility of 2 engine aircraft with an energy ratio of 1,3 - 1,4 was considered. Now it's too late
        1. turbris
          turbris 12 December 2017 15: 24 New
          +1
          Again, you are mistaken - we have extensive experience in creating highly reliable engines on which all combat aircraft are now flying and the creation of a new engine confirms this. And the plane you are talking about is being developed jointly with India, but for now the MiG-35 will go into service, which will replace the obsolete MiG-29. And how many F-35s will be released is also not yet clear, they also manipulated thousands of F-22s, but in the end it’s zilch .....
          1. a.sirin
            a.sirin 12 December 2017 16: 26 New
            +1
            We have never had highly reliable engines with a large resource, only recently, those old engines have more or less approached the American level of the 80s in terms of resource.
            With India - in reality - nothing specifically is being developed. While the exchange of information on systems, no more.
            F-22 planned to produce a lot, but the Soviet Union did not. If there was, then they would release. But Russia will not do many 57s
  2. Doliva63
    Doliva63 10 December 2017 18: 08 New
    +5
    But it was impossible to shove AFAR with a long range into Su-thirty and hang appropriate rockets? And no hemorrhoids with a new aircraft, the need for which the Americans imposed on us! I don’t understand at all, what the hell is he for us?
    1. medvedron
      medvedron 10 December 2017 19: 13 New
      +2
      You’re arguing like Khrushchev when you ordered aviation to be replaced with missiles. So why the heck is spent on Su any there, it’s easier to set up a bunch of plywood biplanes and equip them with longer-range missiles.
    2. KaPToC
      KaPToC 10 December 2017 20: 41 New
      +1
      Quote: Doliva63
      But it was impossible to shove AFAR with a long range into Su-thirty and hang appropriate rockets? And no hemorrhoids with a new aircraft, the need for which the Americans imposed on us! I don’t understand at all, what the hell is he for us?

      It is theoretically possible, but ... military equipment should be constantly improved, and you suggest stopping and doing nothing - this is a direct road to defeat.
  3. _Jack_
    _Jack_ 10 December 2017 18: 12 New
    +1
    and, secondly, reduced visibility in various ranges, the novelty offers serious advantages compared to the engine of the first stage

    here it would be more detailed to read what exactly in the engine is made for stealth, in appearance the same open nacelle
    1. medvedron
      medvedron 10 December 2017 19: 15 New
      0
      It is written the same flight in supersonic without afterburner mode, afterburner mode is determined by so many radars, why Americans for so long and were wise with their f-35.
  4. prior
    prior 10 December 2017 18: 47 New
    +1
    I want Mistral, I want an aircraft carrier, I want the Olympics in Sochi, I want the World Cup, ...... I want the fifth generation SU-57, I want PAK YES ...... I want - I want - I want.
    All these Wishlist are not for the people, all these Wishlist are for lovers of cutting folk money.
    1. freejack
      freejack 10 December 2017 19: 28 New
      +6
      Have you come on faberge? ...
      want Want want
      fool
      Mistral (frogmen failed), and money was allocated for them. and here is the "cut-Wishlist"?

      Su - 57 flies (with the old engine), but with a new one it will fly in, and in a series in a couple of years (faster just technically impossible). And what does the cut-Wishlist have to do with it?

      PAK YES in the project. He will not be in the army until 2025-2028. For a strategic missile carrier, this is not long. And then I don’t see anyone sawing anyone ...

      All this not for the people? - Yes! Absolutely agree! This is for the Russian MO !!! AND to the people need a little - a peaceful sky above your head.
      You don't watch him, mister with crushed Faberge? wink
      1. prior
        prior 11 December 2017 09: 57 New
        0
        The Soviet army, armed at that time with modern aircraft-carrying cruisers, airplanes, ALCs, nuclear submarines, could not resist the collapse of the country, although it took the oath because it stood in line for sausage and tights. Faberge turned out to be rather weak. Despite the armament, they raised the Olympic flag. The situation is repeating itself. And instead of insulting for a different opinion, try living at least a month on a regular pension. At the same time, do not forget to pay taxes and utilities! That's what I'm talking about.
        1. freejack
          freejack 11 December 2017 14: 39 New
          +3
          I live on retirement ...) It makes no sense to try ... If in a pure way, then a little more than a third of the pension is paid ... You can live, but you can't live well ... ((Here I agree with you on 200% !!! .. I just spoke out against you on specific “Wishlist - Sawing!” Programs. I want Great Sovereign Russia, not the garbage of the 90s ... I already voted for jeans with chewing gum (sinful!) ... As a result, in the 90s they were flooded with consumer goods of all stripes, but they forgot to give us their salaries and pensions altogether! To rephrase - "they got both war and shame!" (C) stop
        2. turbris
          turbris 12 December 2017 15: 40 New
          +2
          Well, pensioners don’t pay taxes if they don’t have elite real estate and Lexus. The Soviet Union was destroyed by the Politburo and the Central Committee of the CPSU - it was they who betrayed everyone, not the Soviet Army. And I agree with pensions, the situation is very tense if we occupy such places in the world ranking on them. But the pension will not be increased by the change of any power - this is absolutely accurate and this must be understood.
    2. KaPToC
      KaPToC 10 December 2017 20: 42 New
      0
      Quote: prior
      prior

      Did you go too far with anyone?
  5. Anyone
    Anyone 10 December 2017 19: 00 New
    +2
    Unfortunately, the bad tradition of the Soviet era was to underestimate the complexity of creating an aircraft engine ...

    Who said such nonsense and stupidity? )))
  6. Radikal
    Radikal 10 December 2017 21: 50 New
    +2
    The development of this engine not only became a major engineering victory, but also made it possible to say that Russia is overcoming one of the most negative trends in Soviet aircraft construction.
    Curiously, what kind of negative trend do the authors mention? recourse
    1. bk316
      bk316 10 December 2017 22: 09 New
      +3
      The fact that during the development of many aircraft, the engines did not reach the required performance characteristics, although everything else was in order.
      As a result, the entire project was either closed down or adopted as is.
      1. Radikal
        Radikal 10 December 2017 22: 11 New
        0
        Isn’t it right now? winked
        1. medvedron
          medvedron 11 December 2017 00: 32 New
          +1
          But is the Su-57 already adopted? What is your question? Everything is written in the article, the engine was created parallel to the aircraft. Now they will test if everything is normal and will start production, which is not clear.
        2. bk316
          bk316 11 December 2017 08: 48 New
          +2
          Isn’t it right now?

          Now it’s not so, at least for now.
      2. Anyone
        Anyone 10 December 2017 22: 39 New
        +1
        The author of the opus, as an illustration of the "negative trend" in the design of aircraft engines in the USSR, cited the project "strategist" M-52. In this project, everything was not up to the specifications required by the customer. And the motor there was the last to blame. The M-52 took off with a “crutch” (optional landing gear dumped on a scab) and sat down only if there was a finisher like on aircraft carriers. The warriors demanded that the runway take off from 2500 meters, but in reality this happened only with the use of launch boosters. The entire project of the domestic "Valkyrie" did not reach the required performance characteristics in the aggregate of shortcomings. And the engines here played far from the main role. The design bureau required only 2,5 years to create / test / refine them. By today's standards, the creation of motors is generally never a real time, but a labor feat)) But the customer could not wait 2,5 years - he needed everything yesterday. And immediately after that, they refused a symmetrical response to the Valkyrie. And they did it right, by the way))
        1. bk316
          bk316 11 December 2017 08: 47 New
          +2
          You are about the unflown up M-52 and the author about the M-50. Read carefully.
          1. Anyone
            Anyone 11 December 2017 12: 17 New
            0
            What's the difference? In add. horizontal plumage? The plane is one and the same in fact. The engines they were supposed to put the same - M16-17. Study the materiel carefully))
    2. turbris
      turbris 12 December 2017 15: 28 New
      +1
      And they themselves came up with this trend, because they do not know anything about the Lyulka and Kuznetsov Design Bureau, about Perm aircraft engines, etc.
  7. Ruslan Gainutdinov
    Ruslan Gainutdinov 11 December 2017 04: 31 New
    +1
    He always smiles when our experts say that some kind of weapon or equipment is a completely new purely Russian (read the post-USSR) development. Just like Rosin talked about Armature or about Caliber rockets
    1. turbris
      turbris 12 December 2017 15: 32 New
      0
      Who develops, he builds, he has experienced prototypes, he sets up serial production, I don’t understand why he smiles at you.
  8. Shurale
    Shurale 11 December 2017 06: 34 New
    +2
    ““ Unfortunately, the bad tradition of the Soviet era was to underestimate the complexity of creating an aircraft engine, ”said Oleg Panteleev.
    Can Panteleev first do as much as tagda was done, and only then make any statements about the "bad" traditions?
    "Kreotif guano - aftir mudag." ... (c)
  9. Tektor
    Tektor 11 December 2017 12: 02 New
    +2
    What is the essence of a new generation aircraft? Yes, it’s about making an airplane of the following: it’s impossible to jump over a generation ... A feature of the Su-57 is in the new construction principles using new materials, the creation and application of new intelligent assistants based on new technologies, the creation of an electronic pilot, i.e. highly intelligent board capable of making responsible decisions. And all this costs money. The 6th generation will be much more expensive. Therefore, it is necessary to work out the 5th. 40 years will have to improve each element individually and the entire structure as a whole. This is a major step in the future! Russia will become the 2nd power in the world, able to develop its project of the 5th generation conqueror. When the "childhood diseases" are resolved, the 5th generation board will not be able to fill up any of the competitors of the previous one. And then we will have to establish a conveyor for its production, canceling the production of previous models. And it is quite obvious that those states that cannot create their 5th generation will lag behind in technological development for a long time, almost forever, from those capable of it.
    1. turbris
      turbris 12 December 2017 15: 30 New
      0
      Absolutely, I really want the "wise men" and "critics" to read this.
  10. asr55
    asr55 11 September 2019 22: 52 New
    0
    “The first flight of the Su-57 took place in 2010, but then it happened with the engine of the“ first stage ”(“ Product-117 ”) - an upgraded version of the AL-41F1S engine from the fourth-generation fighter Su-35S. It was significantly inferior to its American counterparts . "" ... significantly inferior ... "Well, where are these foolish prose writers to know this! A lot of such mistakes in the article and they play a significant role. I do not want to think badly about affftera this opus, for sure all the mistakes are due to ignorance. You can talk about the project and have an opinion is normal, but for this article you can get from the pilot and the scoreboard.