Military Review

"Product 30" went to the flight

84
The Russian defense industry continues to work on a promising fifth-generation fighter Su-57 / T-50 / PAK FA. At the moment, the program is addressing a number of tasks related to the creation of a particular equipment, as well as new weapons. One of the main goals at present is to test the new engine “Product 30”. The project of a promising engine has already passed a number of important stages, and now the power plant is ready for testing along with the aircraft. The other day, the first test flight of the Su-57 prototype with the engines “Item 30” took place.


From 2010 to the present, experimental machines of the “Perspective aviation Frontline Aviation Complex ”T-50, now known as Su-57, used AL-41F1 turbojet engines. In the context of the entire program, they also bore the symbol “first stage engines”. These products, built according to the double-circuit scheme, equipped with an afterburner and a nozzle with thrust vector control, allowed the aircraft to obtain the desired capabilities and significantly improved performance in comparison with existing equipment. In parallel, the development of a completely new engine with the working name "Product 30" was underway. He was also called the engine of the second stage.

"Product 30" went to the flight


The design and development of the second stage engine took several years. According to known data, over the past few months, experienced "Products 30" were tested on the stand. To date, the engines of the new type have been prepared for the full test with the carrier. The first flight of a prototype aircraft with prototypes of the new model engines took place a few days ago.

The fifth-generation Su-57 fighter with the 052 tail number (the second flight model of its type) equipped with the 30 Product engine made its first flight last Wednesday, December 6. For security reasons, the aircraft was equipped with a mixed power plant in the form of the engines AL-41Ф1 and "Products 30". The first such tests were conducted at the airport of the Flight Research Center named after MM. Gromov in the city of Zhukovsky, Moscow Region. The pilot of the company “Sukhoi”, the hero of Russia Sergey Bogdan, controlled the experimental machine with a new power plant.

For obvious reasons, the project developers and testers did not disclose most of the information on the first test flight and limited themselves to a few general information. According to official data, the first flight using the “30 Product” lasted 17 minutes. During this time, an experienced T-50 under the control of a test pilot performed a flight mission. The flight went smoothly and in accordance with the received task. Soon the aviation industry published photos and videos of the first test flight of the vehicle in a new configuration.

The engine project "Product 30" is still far enough from the beginning of mass production and operation of equipment in the army, but already now it receives the highest marks. So, commenting on the project of the PAK FA and the new engine for such an aircraft, the Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov noted that the new aircraft are evidence of the high potential of the domestic aircraft industry. The industry has proven its ability to create highly intelligent advanced systems such as a unique glider, innovative digital equipment and the latest engines.

The start of the flight tests of the new engine “Product 30” is the most important milestone in stories domestic engine building. The fact is that for the first time in many years the turbojet engine for a combat aircraft was developed from scratch and should not have become another option for the deep modernization of one of the existing samples. In fact, the "30 Product" was the first full-fledged development of a kind in the modern history of the domestic industry. In this case, the uniqueness of the project is not only in the approaches to design. The refusal to use ready-made base projects allowed us to apply new ideas and solutions, significantly affecting the final characteristics and capabilities.

According to previously published data, the new “Product 30” was created in the framework of the cooperation of several enterprises from the United Engine Corporation. This organization of work has allowed a number of leading organizations in the industry to combine efforts and use their best practices. The project used the newest ideas and constructive and technological solutions. The correct combination of promising and well-known solutions led to the desired results.

Unfortunately, most of the information about the turbojet "Product 30" is not subject to disclosure. However, the main features of the design and the characteristic advantages of the new design have already been announced. Allegedly, one of the ways to improve performance was the use of new materials and architectures of individual units. In particular, the engine received a brand new high-pressure compressor. Several innovations have been introduced into the design of the turbine. First of all, new high-temperature nickel alloys were used in its details.

A more efficient compressor and turbine combined with other innovations, such as the new electronic control system, gave the 30 Product engine certain advantages over existing products. Previously, it was repeatedly stated that the main advantages of the new engine will be reduced fuel consumption with increased thrust. In addition, the engine is equipped with a nozzle with a thrust vector control system, which allows you to dramatically increase the maneuverability of the aircraft.

As you know, one of the signs of the fifth generation fighter is the ability to fly at supersonic speed without using an afterburner. According to known data, the engines of the first stage for the PAK-FA - AL-41Ф1 - have already provided such opportunities. The new "Product 30", differing in higher technical characteristics, will allow to solve such problems with greater efficiency, including with reduced fuel consumption.

The exact characteristics of the new engine has not yet been officially published. So far, only various estimates are made, based on the available information about existing engines of domestic development. The maximum “30 Products” without use is estimated at 10-11 thousand kgf. Fast and Furious should reach 16-18 thou. Kgf. Such estimates are based primarily on the assumption that the engine of the second stage should have noticeable advantages over existing products.

From these estimates, it follows that the thrust of two new-engine engines working in the afterburner should, at least by 10-15%, exceed the normal take-off weight of the aircraft. With a maximum take-off weight, the thrust-carrying capacity must also be greater than one, although its stock in this case can seriously decrease. However, in this situation, some reduction in thrust-to-weight ratio is offset by an increase in the stock of fuel and ammunition.

The Su-57 / T-50 fighter with engines of the first stage already had the possibility of more vigorous maneuvering due to the thrust vector control system built on the basis of controlled nozzles. The 30 engine is also reportedly equipped with jet-jet controls, which means the aircraft retains its capabilities in the context of maneuverability while increasing other flight data.

Starting flights with a new engine is an important step in the history of the entire PAK FA program. It brings the moment of successful completion of work, however, to obtain the desired results far enough. So far, only one “30 Product” is being tested on a carrier plane. In the near future, flights will have to start with a full-fledged power plant consisting of two engines. T-50 tests with two engines are scheduled for next year.

According to previously published plans, the flight tests of the engine of the second stage were to start in 2017 year and continue for two years. By the end of the decade, the military and industry intended to complete the refinement of the “30 Products”, according to the results of which the new engine could be put into series. As the last show news, the PAK FA program is on schedule. As planned, the first flight with the new engine took place in the 2017 year, which will allow the fighter to be raised in the final configuration next year.

Whether the participants of the PAK FA program will be able to meet the deadlines will be clear in the near future. To date, they have been able to implement a number of stages of the program and the entire course of the latter, in general, may be a reason for optimism. There is no reason to doubt the possibility of successful completion of work on time.

This summer, the command of the aerospace forces and the leadership of the aircraft industry announced plans for the near future, affecting the mass production and supply of Su-57 fighter jets. It is alleged that in 2018-19 the army will receive an installation batch of 12 such machines. 10 aircraft from 12, intended for trial operation, will receive the engines of the first stage - AL-41Ф1. Two other machines will have to match the appearance of the serial fighter. Apparently, the words about the serial appearance implied including the engines "Product 30".

It should be noted that a significant number of new projects are being developed in the framework of the PAK FA program, and new ideas are being implemented not only in the field of power plants. At present, work is continuing on new radio-electronic systems, the development of various aviation weapons, and so on. As in the case of the 30 product project, work in these areas will have to be completed in the coming years, as a result of which troops will be able to get full-fledged full-service warplanes provided for by the existing project.

Recently, reports about various jobs and successes of the program “Advanced Aviation Complex of Frontal Aviation” have appeared with enviable regularity. In addition, these deadlines are approaching the completion of development work and the commencement of mass production for the supply of equipment to the armed forces. The beginning of the tests of the prototype T-50 / Su-57 with the new engine touches on key aspects of the entire program, and therefore is one of the main recent news.

The aviation industry continues fine-tuning a promising fifth-generation fighter and regularly reports on its successes in this matter. The latest news on the start of tests of the prototype Su-57 with the new engine "30 Product" continues this remarkable tradition and, of course, turn out to be a new reason for pride and optimism.


On the materials of the sites:
http://uacrussia.ru/
http://ria.ru/
http://tass.ru/
http://vz.ru/
http://rg.ru/
Author:
Photos used:
United Aircraft Corporation / uacrussia.ru
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  1. Cat Marquis
    Cat Marquis 8 December 2017 09: 20 New
    +4
    Well, it’s like there wasn’t just an engine issue. It seems that the system for using weapons at supersonic sound-carrying it out of the internal compartments has not yet been worked out, there is still no multi-angle and multi-range radar with high-resolution AFAR, etc.
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 8 December 2017 10: 48 New
      13
      Starting from the internal compartment on supersonic was able from the very beginning, it was described in the requirements by the warriors, laid down and implemented. F-22/23, according to Americans, does not know how to do this, they say that they don’t need this in the long-arm concept. Avionics is not fixed before being launched into the series, there are constant gestures and changes in requests and requirements.
  2. Max golovanovo
    Max golovanovo 8 December 2017 09: 42 New
    12
    So the engine is the hardest. I congratulate OKB Lyulka with the new stage of testing 30 matches !!!
  3. Hunter
    Hunter 8 December 2017 09: 44 New
    +1
    And where are the stealth slot nozzles like the F22? Again by saying: and so it goes.
    1. Magic archer
      Magic archer 8 December 2017 09: 54 New
      +1
      These are only the first engines so far. In the internet there is a photo with rectangular nozzles.
    2. Andrey Skokovsky
      Andrey Skokovsky 8 December 2017 10: 37 New
      18
      Quote: Hunter
      And where are the stealth slot nozzles like the F22? Again by saying: and so it goes.

      why don’t you tell us these show-offs?
      1. pavelty
        pavelty 8 December 2017 11: 08 New
        +4
        I also did not understand ... why do we need nozzles like the F-22, our engine building is completely different from the Americans.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. seti
          seti 8 December 2017 12: 41 New
          +7
          Quote: Hunter
          Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
          why don’t you tell us these show-offs?
          And why do we need a very expensive 5 generation aircraft with its stealth technologies? What does su-35 not suit you? Our pan-head unanimously scream that he is cooler than F-22 and F-35 combined. Why do we need an expensive fleet? These expensive nuclear missile carriers? In general, to go deeper into the taiga, to unclear and pump oil to my uncle from the west.

          Why do you need us in the Russian Federation? What is the use of you if you write complete nonsense? Better watch SNN and other crap only somewhere in the barracks of America and not Russia.
          1. The comment was deleted.
        2. shonsu
          shonsu 9 December 2017 00: 03 New
          11
          It has already been said, we will not have flat nozzles, but there will be a full-fledged UVT. Ours considered that over maneuverability is more important than the effect of stealth in the back hemisphere. By the way, the f-35 also does not have a flat nozzle, and no one is happy about the tragedy.
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 9 December 2017 11: 03 New
            0
            A flat nozzle reduces heat dissipation in some way, not the fact that ours did not find another solution.
      3. 210ox
        210ox 8 December 2017 13: 08 New
        0
        It's not about show-offs. The main work is underway. Not as fast as we would like. Yes, and it looks like this aircraft will be in trial operation. There will be no mass series.
        Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
        Quote: Hunter
        And where are the stealth slot nozzles like the F22? Again by saying: and so it goes.

        why don’t you tell us these show-offs?
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          1. Felix99
            Felix99 8 December 2017 15: 07 New
            13
            In 2000, they were head over heels in shit. Without Uncle Vova, they would have remained.
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            2. Sergey Medvedev
              Sergey Medvedev 8 December 2017 20: 48 New
              15
              Quote: Felix99
              In 2000, they were head over heels in shit. Without Uncle Vova, they would have remained

              In 2000, oil prices were in the region of 20-30 dollars / barrel. And now 60. It was more than 100. So Vovochka just lay down on a post. But he is incapable of moving forward, pushing the country forward. Drone, in a word.
              1. svp67
                svp67 8 December 2017 20: 53 New
                +4
                Quote: Sergei Medvedev
                But he is unable to advance anything, to advance the country. Drone, in a word.

                "Everyone imagines himself a strategist, seeing the battle from the side ..." Is there a desire to take his place? The position is FIRST. In Russia, there are still plenty of basements in Ipatiev’s houses ...
            3. viktorch
              viktorch 9 December 2017 00: 46 New
              +2
              and in what shit in the 1300th you were not going to believe, Uncle Vova saved us not otherwise
          2. Evgeny Strygin
            Evgeny Strygin 8 December 2017 15: 16 New
            +6
            it is of course everything is clear - only Uncle Vova is not a god, not a king, and not a hero. The system is vicious and tying everything into one name is idiocy.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Evgeny Strygin
                Evgeny Strygin 8 December 2017 17: 48 New
                +3
                So I don’t argue, but then for you, "Uncle Vova" is bad, and so on. As for me, there is not much difference who is at the helm. The driver does not change the route.
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                  1. Evgeny Strygin
                    Evgeny Strygin 8 December 2017 19: 32 New
                    +6
                    Here we will not converge - the clearest example of the United States. Trump, in spite of all that can only become president. Not a fig has changed. (Yes, and on the decrees of the same Putin a hundred times spat from a high bell tower)
                    And at the expense of patriotism ... Well, you can be a patriot of very different states within the framework of one country. One sincere patriot of his property and privileges within the state, and someone completely different. And the feelings, so to speak, are absolutely sincere in both.
                    About 2000 and promotion - so Putin didn’t put forward the Kremlin? Or maybe the “Kremlin” concept is pretty conditional? Putin was simply the most diplomatic candidate and that’s all. Well, perhaps in my opinion it is far from the worst - this two words can connect.
                    And about ardent anti-communism - Putin is exactly the same. All these “repose”, the opening of monuments (in combination with a fierce grasp for the achievement of the union, look just like schizophrenia), kissing with all kinds of useless rubbish like Solzhenitsyn’s widows, widows of drunks of presidents and others.
                    It operates within the same anti-communist and liberal framework within which the state generally exists. By the fact that it’s not at all clear what the hell all this trash has property and power if the USSR cannot be shit and called hellish hell.
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 8 December 2017 19: 47 New
                      +9
                      Quote: Evgeny Strygin
                      It operates within the same anti-communist and liberal framework within which the state generally exists.

                      A little remark: for what purpose do you think he does this?
                      My IMHO - in order to prevent a sharp and simultaneous outflow of investment from the Russian Federation. Such that the current "withdrawal of capital" seems childish, sorry, babble.
                      And to cause ... yes, just by careless rhetoric, such a process is not just simple, but very simple. The ostriches are frightening, and the floor is concreted ... belay
                      What this leads to - see the example of Venezuela. For instance.
                      Purely IMHO and nothing personal yes
                      1. Evgeny Strygin
                        Evgeny Strygin 9 December 2017 08: 57 New
                        +2
                        An example is excellent, but you need to understand that not only "investments" are leaking, but in general everything - from money to all resources from the inside. Rhetoric can scare you as much as you like - the problem is in real actions in which all the profits in the country are privatized and the losses are nationalized.
                        Words can be any, the main thing is that actions lead us into the abyss. All the same Ukraine, but more drawn out.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
          3. activator
            activator 8 December 2017 19: 15 New
            +6
            And you can ask about the wisest how slotted nozzles provide, as you put it
            all-angle stealth
            ? and in what ranges?
            1. Lone gunman
              Lone gunman 8 December 2017 22: 51 New
              +1
              "gaps" are different and not just like girls:
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    4. NEXUS
      NEXUS 8 December 2017 14: 53 New
      +7
      Quote: Hunter
      And where are the stealth slot nozzles like the F22? Again by saying: and so it goes.

      The question is why? Just be sober and do like mattresses? So they have a different concept. They rely on inconspicuousness above all, and we rely on over-maneuverability. Hence, the mattresses have slotted nozzles that can change the thrust vector only in the vertical, and we have all-angle nozzles that give this very maneuverability. Different approaches and different views on what a fifth generation fighter is.
      Stealth technology became obsolete back in the 60s, which is why our developers do not make it the main advantage of the SU-57. And when the serial ROFAR appears, so the stealth technology can be thrown into the trash and then what will the F-22 and F-35 remain with?
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 8 December 2017 15: 57 New
        +6
        Quote: NEXUS
        Stealth technology is obsolete back in the 60s
        Just a revelation descends like God's grace from heaven. It seems I read your comments about Putin, I thought that you are a healthy person and soak it. laughing
        Quote: NEXUS
        Just be sober and do like mattresses?
        The creation of the 5th generation aircraft, whose attribute is stealth technology, is simply declared. There are no slit nozzles on the su57; the question is why not?
        Quote: NEXUS
        then what will the F-22 and F-35 remain with?
        Damn that's it, got in line for the worthless F-35s. One nexus is well done. laughing Question: then do you need su57 if stealth technology does not pay off? Why was a cloud of money spent on its development? Would upgrade further su35.
        Quote: NEXUS
        all-angle nozzles
        In my opinion, the F-22 went the right way, slotted nozzles are more important.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 8 December 2017 16: 27 New
          11
          Quote: Hunter
          The creation of the 5th generation aircraft, whose attribute is stealth technology, is simply declared.

          Dear "smart and healthy" person, in each country, the requirements for fighters of the 5th generation are different, if you are not aware and they are somewhat at odds with each other. I repeat, since it didn’t come to our head, SUPER MANEUVERABILITY is of paramount importance for our mattresses. At the same time, the F-22 in the IR range is visible remarkably, but the pangolin does not have such a radar, from the word at all. ESR that the 57th, that the lizards are comparable, that with slotted nozzles, that with all-angle.
          Quote: Hunter
          Question: then do you need su57 if stealth technology does not pay off?

          I repeat for those who are in the tank, we have a different concept and stealth technology is not a priority, unlike the mattress fighter. At the same time, our fighter was originally designed and built as an MFI (multi-purpose), and the Raptor began to finish under multifunction just now.
          About the obsolescence of stealth technology, its creator also spoke ... Ufimtsev himself recognized this.
          Along with the positive properties, radar camouflage coatings also have a number of significant drawbacks: narrow-band (providing parameters only in a certain wavelength range), high level of intrinsic specific image intensifier tubes, relatively high cost, low wear resistance, and in some cases unsatisfactory weight and size characteristics.

          Quote: Hunter
          Would upgrade further su35.

          It is being modernized. For example, the development of ROFAR, which generally does not care which plane is stealth or not stealth. It should be understood that stealth is not invisibility, but only low-grade.
          Quote: Hunter
          In my opinion, the F-22 went the right way, slotted nozzles are more important.

          Consider so, it is your right. And I believe that the path that our developers have taken is much more faithful and rational.
          1. Hunter
            Hunter 8 December 2017 16: 39 New
            +5
            Quote: NEXUS
            I repeat for those who are in the tank, we have a different concept and stealth technology is not a priority
            You did not answer the question, why did you create su57 if you can upgrade su35? I will help you, apparently you have problems with understanding, I will try. What is there in su57 that is not in su35? Su57 has stealth technology. This includes the internal placement of missiles. If the stealth is out of date, the dead end path, as you say, then why is it on su57? Why was the money spent on its creation? You are clearly at odds with logic. So it turns out.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 8 December 2017 16: 59 New
              +8
              Quote: Hunter
              You are clearly at odds with logic. So it turns out.

              No dear, it’s bad with your understanding. SU-57, even without stealth technology, surpasses SU-35 in all respects. As in maneuverability, speed, flight range without refueling, etc. ... plus the greater use of composites, a new arsenal, 5 radars against one PFAR in the SU-35. And the su-57 was initially conceived as an MFI at the development stage, and the SU-35 (modernization of the SU-27) was created as a fighter to gain air supremacy. Do you understand the difference? Now the 35th is taught to work on the ground, and make it more multi-purpose.
              The SU-27 platform has been almost 50 years old. And until it turns blue it will not work, because there is a limit beyond which modernization is unprofitable and useless. SU-57 is a new platform. I emphasize PLATFORM, and not just a fighter. And to make it completely clear to you, the developers have a rule such that the next-generation fighter should be a priori better than its predecessor. And stealth technology is not a priority for our developers, like mattresses.
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        2. Soho
          Soho 11 December 2017 09: 11 New
          +2
          Hunter December 8, 2017

          If you understood how a flat nozzle fits into, which you foolishly call a “slotted” nozzle, into the F22 design scheme and what functions it performs there, then you would stop grinding rubbish about
          There are no slit nozzles on the su57; the question is why not?

          In addition, a flat nozzle, although it offers certain advantages, has a number of important disadvantages. The Americans chose what we are. It is neither hot nor cold. Just different. So stop hysterical
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 12 December 2017 16: 53 New
            0
            Slot-hole nozzles are relevant for bombers (type B-2 or F-117) where there is no problem of having normal maneuverability.
            1. Soho
              Soho 13 December 2017 07: 03 New
              +1
              where there is no problem of having normal maneuverability.

              But what flat nozzle prevents maneuverability of the same F22? The raptor has quite impressive characteristics for highly maneuverable aircraft. According to the established U-turn, he will give odds to almost all his NATO colleagues. It can only be twisted by Russian rusks with UVT
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 13 December 2017 07: 39 New
                0
                I mean slotted, as on the B-2 and F-117 (really masking IR traces) ... And you yourself answered about F-22.
    5. engineer74
      engineer74 8 December 2017 15: 47 New
      10
      Quote: Hunter
      And where are the stealth slot nozzles like the F22? Again by saying: and so it goes.

      About ten years ago on the Su-27 was ... No benefits identified hi
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 8 December 2017 16: 19 New
        +2
        Quote: engineer74
        No benefits identified
        Now everything is clear, the mattresses have blunted with their F22 and B2, attached an unnecessary device to their engine. Here they are suckers turns out. And I thought, as usual, we showed T90m, and they upgrade T72b3. And with su57 they simply did not bother, they went on the easy way. But it looks like there are no advantages. Clear.
        1. engineer74
          engineer74 8 December 2017 17: 11 New
          10
          If you do not know how to make all-angle nozzles with UVT, you do it flat and scream that it is cool and imperceptible. Winning in stealth does not cover the loss in maneuverability, from the point of view of OUR MO. hi
          1. Hunter
            Hunter 8 December 2017 17: 33 New
            +2
            Quote: engineer74
            If you do not know how to make all-angle nozzles with UVT - do flat
            I knew that the mattresses could not make an all-round nozzle, for sure. I feel enlightened, thank you very much.
            Quote: engineer74
            Winning stealth doesn't cover loss in maneuverability
            Well, yes, yes, when the question is who will be the first to take the crosshairs, I am sure you can convince the Su57 pilot that super maneuverability is much more important than stealth.
        2. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 8 December 2017 17: 56 New
          +9
          Quote: Hunter
          Now everything is clear, mattresses means blunt with their F22 and B2

          The most modern American aircraft.

          Why didn’t they stick flat nozzles here?
        3. shonsu
          shonsu 9 December 2017 00: 45 New
          +1
          Once again I say, at a later f-35 the nozzle is round. What is the reason for this? Answer nonsense.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 10 December 2017 01: 06 New
            +2
            Quote: Hunter
            Now everything is clear, mattresses means blunt with their F22 and B2

            By the way, the nozzle rotation mechanism (for the one that vertically takes off) of our development + the balancing system is also ours (of the same Yakovlevites, left with the nozzle rotation mechanism set) - the Americans themselves did it all crookedly.
            And look at the photo of this F-35 - equipped with such pylons, and even if the bombs are hung on them, what the hell is it, stealth?
        4. lazy
          lazy 11 December 2017 08: 15 New
          +1
          an all-round nozzle is harder to make than a slotted one, so mattresses went along the easy path
      2. Korolev
        Korolev 9 December 2017 14: 34 New
        +3
        Quote: engineer74
        About ten years ago on the Su-27 was ... No benefits identified

        there it is. And all around write the opposite.
        The experimental flat nozzle was made at NPO Motor and installed on the left engine AL-31F of the flying laboratory LL-UV (PS), created in 1990 on the basis of the Su-27UB aircraft No. 02-02 manufactured by KnAAPO. The deputy chief designer (and later the chief designer) of Sukhoi Design Bureau M. A. Pogosyan was appointed as the head of work for this flying laboratory. Refinement of the Su-27UB to the flying laboratory was carried out in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, after which the aircraft was transported to the LII aerodrome on the An-22 Antey plane. 20 flights were performed at LL-HC (PS), during which data were obtained on a significant (several-fold) decrease in the level of IR visibility of an engine with a flat nozzle.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 12 December 2017 16: 54 New
          +1
          But also with great loss of traction and worse maneuverability ...
    6. figwam
      figwam 8 December 2017 17: 07 New
      +8
      Quote: Hunter
      And where are the stealth slot nozzles like the F22? Again by saying: and so it goes.

      And who told you that slotted nozzles are stealth? In the thermal range, it glows like a Christmas tree.

      And the F-35 is not the 5th generation, does it have an ordinary nozzle?
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 8 December 2017 17: 21 New
        +1
        Quote: figvam
        And the F-35 is not the 5th generation, does it have an ordinary nozzle?
        The F35 is a budget version of the 5th generation aircraft, so it has the usual nozzles.
        Quote: figvam
        And who told you that slotted nozzles are stealth?
        And why then are they used on F22 and B2?
        1. figwam
          figwam 8 December 2017 17: 52 New
          +6
          Quote: Hunter
          Quote: figvam
          And the F-35 is not the 5th generation, does it have an ordinary nozzle?
          The F35 is a budget version of the 5th generation aircraft, so it has the usual nozzles.
          Quote: figvam
          And who told you that slotted nozzles are stealth?
          And why then are they used on F22 and B2?

          Come on, FSA decided to arm themselves and allies with cheap things? F-22 only 187 pieces, so it is more expensive, if the F-22 is released in the amount of several thousand, the price will be the same. If the flat nozzle played a decisive role, they would use them in all new developments.
          .And now what do they do with them, cut it? Once the F-117 was an achievement, but it turned out bullshit. While the engine and skin of the aircraft will differ in temperature from the air, it can be detected.
          1. Hunter
            Hunter 8 December 2017 18: 15 New
            0
            Quote: figvam
            Yeah come on you
            Yes, for sure, it’s time to stop communicating with all sorts of near-minded people, but I’ll answer you and that's it, I tie it.
            Quote: figvam
            FSA decided to arm themselves and allies cheap?
            Can you count? How many engines does the F22 and F35 have?
            Quote: figvam
            If the flat nozzle played a crucial role
            This is called the budget option, when you need to save on something.
          2. Korolev
            Korolev 9 December 2017 14: 35 New
            +3
            Quote: figvam
            F-22 total 187 pieces

            This phrase is especially interesting in the light of plans for the Su-57 in the amount of 12 units.
          3. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 14 December 2017 11: 36 New
            0
            A helium nozzle reduces engine thrust ... The F-35 is not the most heavily armed aircraft, even among the 4th generation ...
        2. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 8 December 2017 18: 00 New
          +2
          Quote: Hunter
          The F35 is a budget version of the 5th generation aircraft, so it has the usual nozzles.

          Do you think that the Americans decided to re-equip their Air Force, Navy and ILC with a budget option?
          1. figwam
            figwam 8 December 2017 18: 07 New
            +1
            And afterburner ....
            1. viktorch
              viktorch 9 December 2017 00: 51 New
              +1
              doesn’t shine so much, three times less than the 16th torch
              1. figwam
                figwam 9 December 2017 10: 44 New
                +3
                F-16 flies on the afterburner. At 2min18sec F-22 includes afterburner, the thermal footprint becomes larger than its fuselage. The meaning of a flat nozzle?
                1. barbiturate
                  barbiturate 9 December 2017 12: 47 New
                  +1
                  Hmm, the thermal footprint of the F-22 is simply huge and you can’t get it anywhere, that afterburner, that afterburner mode, you're right! The meaning of a flat nozzle is not visible.
          2. MadCat
            MadCat 9 December 2017 01: 50 New
            +1
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            Do you think that the Americans decided to re-equip their Air Force, Navy and ILC with a budget option?

            Do you think that the F35 (according to the classification of a light fighter) is an expensive option? On a single engine round nozzle to increase traction.
            And on the SU57 they simply could not develop sufficient traction on the slot nozzle.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 10 December 2017 01: 23 New
              +1
              Quote: MadCat
              And on the SU57 they simply could not develop sufficient traction on the slot nozzle.

              If not difficult, give a link to the source of this data.
    7. kirgiz58
      kirgiz58 8 December 2017 22: 39 New
      +3
      Quote: Hunter
      And where are the slotted nozzles

      As I understand you. I also like slits, especially wet ones laughing laughing Don’t shout like that, all the men here, well, except for the imported ones (those are not all).
  4. Nemesis
    Nemesis 8 December 2017 09: 51 New
    +1
    This is not bad, but such a pace of testing and development of the Su-57 does not meet the interests of Russia, and as a result, Russia risks getting a morally obsolete aircraft, for a lot of money ...
    1. LastPS
      LastPS 9 December 2017 14: 06 New
      0
      Oh, come on, it’s not what kind of interests they don’t meet, is it necessary to drive Ishilov’s troops in Syria? Other simpler types do just fine with these tasks. This is not the forties of the last century, when the latest fighter could really make some kind of weather on the battlefield, being built and mastered in sufficient quantities. In the era of nuclear weapons, all these toys are just an instrument of local wars. It will not be obsolete, for this it is enough to look at the success of competitors.
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 11 December 2017 01: 19 New
        0
        You gracious sovereign do not know history, but it says that war can be without the use of nuclear weapons, and very bloody ... It is enough to recall Vietnam .... and Korea .... and TAM (in local conflict) on Su-30SM vs F-22 Raptor is not for you and your kind to fly, otherwise you would say otherwise ...
        1. LastPS
          LastPS 11 December 2017 07: 11 New
          0
          The experience of Vietnam and Korea only proves my words about local conflicts. In addition, there is simply a chasm between the technologies of the 60s and the technologies of the current time, in addition to the fighters on the battlefield, there are now a lot of everything that affects the situation in the sky and on the ground, air defense systems, AWACS, cruise missiles, drones, guided ammunition. Russia is not the Soviet Union, which is why you decided that we will conduct a direct confrontation with the United States, even if through military assistance. Nobody will deliver a fifth-generation fighter to anyone, even if it does, because the cost and complexity of such a product is not comparable to the 60s soldier aircraft, which could be stamped in thousands, such as 21-blinks. Wars in general have not been fought like this for a long time. In any case, there is no need "right now".
          1. Nemesis
            Nemesis 11 December 2017 09: 04 New
            0
            The wars are now being waged by aviation, and here the Su-30 will have little chance against the F-22, and dragging the Russian Federation into the war, this time spit and not only in the Donbass ... An attack on Iran, or North Korea could lead the Russian Federation to war .. . Think not our business ?! This is so, but not with Putin in power ... A war will begin there and millions of refugees from these countries will rush into the Russian Federation, and Putin will not shoot them at the border, so he won’t be able to enter the country, which will drag Russia into the war without a doubt ...
  5. Galleon
    Galleon 8 December 2017 09: 51 New
    14
    I understand the show on American TV, when groups of enthusiastic mechanics are given money, a task, and they build a car or a motorcycle from one typed in a garbage dump in one transmission. I don’t understand when the plane builders are given money, and this show “just about we will build the plane” is starting which season? The new engine is completely run-in at the stand, otherwise it would not have been put on a plane. Now re-run a few years? This does not happen. No tests pass for years. No space rockets have been tested for years. Most likely, they lie to us. Either all the seasons of this show, which should have a completely different name, without "just about" lie to us, or ... I don’t know. I guess that those responsible for this work have a well-reinforced sense of security, confidence in the future and good financing of the entire project. Well, if so, what does the final result matter? Sits some kind of "a la Mutko" ... For some reason, whoever you take - they are all on the same face and all on the same things: Mutko, Serdyukov, Ulyukaev, etc. For some reason, when they say "Ulyukaev", they tell me together with Siluanov behind bars appear wassat No difference. It's all the same good that a person is not immortal ... I myself first of all. You can’t look at this forever, then no hell is needed.
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 8 December 2017 10: 56 New
      10
      All that is missing is a stamp aboutit would be better if they handed out money to pensioners"....
      At the trash show, they collect one-time Pepelians in a week, whose task is to manage to start and drive 100 m for shooting without stalling. You don’t need to let out a new iPhone either, but you don’t want to start stamping on a 3D printer right away with a new combat aircraft with TU in ten or more volumes of documentation? As a child, did you not bend notebook sheets into airplanes for speed? And from what time did he fly as you would like?
      1. FID
        FID 8 December 2017 13: 19 New
        +5
        Quote: g1washntwn
        whose technical specifications are in more than ten volumes of documentation

        For an airplane, there is NO such concept as TU ... For information, there is a radioactive material (operating manual), there is an electronic flight manual (manual for flight operation), moreover, these are DIFFERENT manuals. THERE is on ACCESSORIES that are part of the Product No. ... Henceforth, try to avoid the use of signs unknown to you, I apologize.
    2. avt
      avt 8 December 2017 10: 59 New
      +1
      Quote: Galleon
      No tests pass for years.

      wassat Yes Yes ....
      Quote: Galleon
      Most likely, they lie to us.

      Fs fso fret! The polymers have come through!bully Well what can I say .... if the height of engineering is
      Quote: Galleon
      shows on American TV, when groups of enthusiastic mechanics are given money, an assignment, and they build a car or a motorcycle from a garbage collector in one program.

      That is like someone, and Az believes in
      Quote: Galleon
      I do not understand,

      And that there are two options — or is this state of mitrofanushka “incapable or unwilling to even work as a search engine to understand the timing of putting into service analogues, well, at least the same“ Raphael, ”the Chinese counterpart there, or to a specialized medical specialist.
      Quote: Galleon
      It's all the same good that a person is not immortal ... I myself first of all. You can’t look at this forever, then no hell is needed.

      Yeah - you yourself will not have to learn the process, well, not with your fingers on the clave, but really with pens in the workplace.
      1. Galleon
        Galleon 8 December 2017 11: 47 New
        +5
        Other than causticity there is no answer? So wretchedly so? Can't you really say anything? It can be seen that he himself did not know the processes, but more with pens on the clave. There is no real answer to my questions? I emphasize - sincere questions, not rhetorically demagogic. So was it worth it to answer like that? Sometimes it's better to be silent than to speak.
        I learned the process of building a ship and its running and state tests. It is different there, the program closes within 2-3 months.
        1. avt
          avt 8 December 2017 14: 23 New
          +1
          Quote: Galleon
          Can't you really say anything?

          Search and find, I do not serve on Fridays
          Quote: avt
          , well, at least the same ,, Raphael, "the Chinese counterpart there,

          Quote: Galleon
          There is no real answer to my questions?
          But judging by copying
          Quote: Galleon
          It can be seen that he himself did not know the processes, but more with pens on the clave.

          not horse feed.
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 8 December 2017 15: 11 New
          +1
          Before that, the ship engine was developed over the years and technically it is simply not comparable with aircraft engines, which are probably the most complex technical devices that are generally produced in large quantities.

          The Chinese still cannot even make AL-31F level engines with acceptable characteristics.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 8 December 2017 11: 13 New
      +7
      Quote: Galleon
      The new engine is completely run-in at the stand, otherwise it would not have been put on a plane. Now re-run a few years? This does not happen. No tests pass for years. No space rockets have been tested for years. Most likely, they lie to us.

      Everyone lies. ©
      Apparently, the Americans then also lie that the prototype YF-22 took off in 1990, the first pre-production car took off in 1997, the car went into production only in 2001, and the first production car entered the Air Force in 2003. smile
      1. Galleon
        Galleon 8 December 2017 11: 58 New
        +4
        Here is a man who answered normally - he cited comparative terms with another similar product - you can take our news chronology and compare it with another sample. And there are “marshals” from the mob and from the mob, to positive answers or not condescending, or not capable, because IQ does not allow. There is also something to compare.
        Thanks, Alexey RA. Believe me, "Everyone lies. ©" does not deliver any pleasure, and it cannot.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 8 December 2017 15: 13 New
          0
          He shouldn’t have brought anything at all, since you speak for aircraft engines, you should know the terms yourself.
    4. EvilLion
      EvilLion 8 December 2017 14: 18 New
      0
      You are stupid and do not know that from flying minutes 20 to real operational readiness, with thousands of hours of a resource, years pass.
  6. Sergey53
    Sergey53 8 December 2017 12: 28 New
    +1
    On the F-35, the engine produces great power of 12-19 thousand kg.s.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 8 December 2017 13: 41 New
      +1
      This is the most powerful engine of its kind ... but it is based on the engine from the F-22.
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 8 December 2017 18: 13 New
        0
        Quote: Zaurbek
        but it is based on an engine from the F-22.

        And not close.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 9 December 2017 08: 56 New
          +3
          Двигатель Pratt & Whitney F135 разработан для самолётов F-35A, F-35B и F-35C. Он является на сегодня (2010) самым мощным двигателем для истребителя в мире.
          26 октября 2001 года фирма Pratt & Whitney получила 10 летний контракт на 4.8 миллиарда долларов на создание и развитие этого двигателя. Было выполнено 17500 часов испытаний.

          Technologically, the F135 is a successful development of the F119 engine mounted on the F-22. In March 2009, F119 reached an important milestone - its total operating time exceeded 110 thousand hours of flight operation, these engines showed their very high reliability and ease of maintenance with technical staff
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 8 December 2017 14: 19 New
      0
      It is larger, and it is one. You still remember engines from bombers with thrust of 25 tons.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 12 December 2017 16: 56 New
        0
        They are naturally not interchangeable .. but F119 is the basis of technology.
  7. Galleon
    Galleon 8 December 2017 14: 41 New
    +2
    Quote: EvilLion
    You are stupid and don't know

    Amazing! I would probably be delighted if not for some buts. It is not clear only: this is from the zoo or from the botanical garden ...
  8. viktorch
    viktorch 8 December 2017 17: 20 New
    0
    In my opinion, in the article there’s some kind of rush about engines, the engine worked out on the stand on the glider does not ride for years, there are no such terms.
  9. Romin
    Romin 8 December 2017 20: 41 New
    +1
    The unjustified obstinacy of the UAC leadership in blocking the creation of a single-engine fighter becomes more and more obvious stupid, against the background of the creation and introduction of a series of products 30
    We ourselves are depriving ourselves of the development and presence in the niche of single-engine fighters. It is stupid and design and financially.
    About the fact that single-engine ones fall more on failure - an excuse for the poor! There is no such universally recognized world statistics.
    1. Town Hall
      Town Hall 8 December 2017 20: 55 New
      0
      Quote: Romin
      against the background of the creation and introduction of a series of products 30




      Already implemented?
      1. viktorch
        viktorch 9 December 2017 00: 45 New
        0
        yeah, moisture pulled from the cheers
        in the 20-25th, the serial in the 30th elimination of deficiencies on the base model will end, with God's help,

        the Chinese will go into the series faster, that's my opinion.
        1. barbiturate
          barbiturate 9 December 2017 11: 09 New
          0
          Maybe someone knows? Well, if in 20m serial engines with excellent characteristics and faster than the Chinese go, which in the engines are so far behind? Then you admit that in December 2017 moisture was pulling from you? laughing
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. Golovan Jack
    Golovan Jack 9 December 2017 16: 50 New
    +8
    Евгений Стрыгин,
    Quote: Yevgeny Strygin
    An example is excellent, but you need to understand that not only "investments" are leaking, but in general everything - from money to all resources from the inside. Rhetoric can scare you as much as you like - the problem is in real actions in which all profits in the country are privatized, and losses are nationalized

    I would start by clarifying the quote you quoted. Here she is, find three differences:
    Quote: Bangsters are attacking!
    Do not you think that the system has completely gone into expansion? When banks invented the mechanism of avoiding liability, taking all risks off, because any cash gap will be closed and the loss covered. Losses are nationalized and profits privatized. Brilliant!



    Having rummaged, I also found that's what:
    And there is such a person "LJ user Spydell." In fact, his name is Pavel Ryabov, he is supposedly some great trader or financial analyst, but, in my opinion, it’s just such a small committee bitch ...
    And this Ryabov decided that his name is now “LJ-user Spydell”, so everyone caved in, even the Echo of Moscow website, under such a trademark, publishes it on the front pages for the hundredth time as the leading authority in foreign exchange matters ...
    They have been doing this for several years. And it is not the first year that he has been constantly delirious, predicting the inevitable literally tomorrow's collapse of the dollar. You can see and check yourself, I’m not inventing or exaggerating ...

    Already more interesting, right? wink

    I recommend, go to the site - a person, IMHO, quite worthy and certainly very informed.
    ===
    Solids:
    1. You referred, in fact, to "Wuhu Matzah" (there is this article too). Which, as it were, is no longer great.
    2. You have distorted the quotation from "Ear Matzah", which is also not great.
    9. I understand that this is rather out of ignorance than "out of spite" ... but it’s better to check the published information (and especially the "fried") yes
    Like this ...