Military Review

New compact machine from the company Noveske

90
Among the novelties of the handgun weapons at first glance, it is often possible to find completely new models that could be missed without focusing on them, since all the solutions in them are standard and have often been used. But sometimes such weapons have their own unique appearance or some kind of distinctive detail that makes them cling to, and with a more detailed acquaintance comes the understanding that, compared to other similar weapon models, this is exactly a little better, more convenient and in the end just more attractive.


I propose to evaluate one of the latest developments of the company Noveske, engaged in the production of AR-like weapons and additions to it. We will meet with a small-sized machine Ghetto Blaster.

About small-sized machines based on AR-15

Among the various shortcomings of weapons based on the AR-15 rifle there is one that has not yet received the option of successful elimination, namely the ability to fold the butt and not deprive the weapon of the ability to be used in the folded position.

New compact machine from the company Noveske


It would seem that a folded butt that does not interfere with firing weapons is a mere trifle, because without a rifle, even at short distances, it’s not worth talking about aimed fire, unless you are a hero of a Hollywood action movie, however this feature of the weapon greatly expands not only the machine’s scope, but sometimes it increases the chances of survival for the owner of the weapon.

First of all, it should be noted that the machine with the butt folded takes up much less space during transportation. It is much more convenient to use while in transport or armor technology due to the reduction in the length of the weapon. When parachuting, such weapons also have their obvious advantages. But the main thing in the arms with a folding butt is that you can significantly reduce its length in cramped conditions, thereby increasing its maneuverability. Of course, this will have to be sacrificed by the accuracy of fire, but when firing bursts at short distances in certain situations, this can be neglected.

The design of the weapon on the basis of the AR-15 has one remarkable feature in the form of the so-called buffer spring (in our return), which is located in the butt of the weapon. Thus, if the stock is folded in any of the possible ways, then after the shot, the bolt will not only move backward at an increased speed, but it will not be able to go back, since the spring will not push it.

As already noted above, many solutions have been proposed for solving this problem, but none of them is perfect. The whole scope of design ideas begins from simply folding the butt with fixing the bolt group, which makes the weapon not effective until the butt is decomposed, and ends on such an original solution as the ability to fold the weapon at the point of junction of the barrel to the receiver, which makes the weapon unsuitable for use in the folded position.



In general, it is virtually impossible to completely defeat this problem without significant changes in the design of the machine, although it is not so difficult to install a return spring over the bolt group, but there is no room for this in a standard receiver, in addition, you will need to reduce the length of the bolt group, in general actually have to make new weapons.

The designers of the company Noveske went a little different way, which in this case may even be the only correct one in terms of cost and end result. The buffer spring tube, and accordingly the spring itself, was reduced to the maximum extent possible, as far as the course of the standard bolt group of weapons allowed. Butt but was made retractable back. Thus, with the butt moved, the machine turned out to be as compact as possible, and with the weapon advanced it turns into a convenient and complete means for firing at the enemy.



This decision became the main one for the fourth generation of AR-like automata from this company. It is the fourth generation that includes the compact Ghetto Blaster machine or GEN 4 N4-PDW 7,94. ”

Ergonomics of the Ghetto Blaster compact machine

If we talk about the ergonomics of the new machine, then it is impossible to isolate something new or unique because it is not there because of the similarity of the machine with the M16. However, some elements have been changed, although they remained in their places.

The first thing that attracts attention is the trigger of the weapon, which is made straight. The detail on the civilian market is quite fashionable now, although it does not provide any specific advantages in such a weapon. The new machine has lost aiming devices that would be one with the weapon. Now, the rear sight and the front sight are mounted on a long mounting bracket on top of the machine gun; a collimator or optical sight can be mounted on the same bar. In the lower part under the barrel there is another seat to install an additional handle to hold or additional devices in the form of a flashlight or laser designator. In addition, on the left and right sides can be supplied with additional mounting straps. The translator of fire modes, the store eject button - all this is located in its place, but the weapon has lost its rammer.



If we talk about the butt itself, then in its folded position it is extremely inconvenient because of the angle of inclination of the handle, in size it is suitable only for a child, but in the extended position the butt is fully full, as in a full-sized weapon. The butt itself has a stepped adjustment, which makes it easier to fit the weapon under the shooter, not only depending on its size, but also depending on the clothes worn on it.

In general, the ergonomics of the Ghetto Blaster leaves a pleasant impression, but only at the level of an AR-like weapon, since some elements, such as the size of the interpreter of a fuse-switch fuse, could be made larger.
The design of the compact machine Ghetto Blaster

Some features in the design of weapons can not be identified, here is quite familiar and familiar to the M16 automation system with all its advantages and disadvantages. The only difference is a reduction in the length of the return spring and small, one might even say cosmetic changes in the bolt group.

In general, for most people, this weapon is the M16, which is not so far from the truth.

Characteristics of the machine Ghetto Blaster

Since the weapon is small, the first thing that should interest him is its length. With the butt folded down, the length of the weapon is 480 millimeters with 650 millimeters unfolded. The length of the barrel is 200 millimeters. Of course, the results are far from the record ones, but they are quite good among similarly designed weapon models.

The mass of the device without cartridges is only 2,1 kilograms, but here it is necessary to make an amendment to the fact that various aiming devices, as well as a flame arrester will affect this figure.

It feeds weapons from stores with a capacity of 10, 20 and 30 5,56x45 cartridges. There is also a version of the weapon chambered for .300 BLK.
The machine itself is offered to the armed forces and the police in its full form, as well as for the civilian market without the possibility of automatic fire and with a reduced capacity of the stores to the extent permitted by law.



In addition to the compact version of the 4 machine, the generation of the Noveske company also includes full-size models of the weapon with a barrel length of 416 millimeters. There are no differences except the length of the trunk and the elongated forearm between them.

Conclusion

For many, this machine may seem like another variation on the M16 theme, and so it is in fact. But there is something special about it, even if it’s even the price, which on the manufacturer’s website is equal to 2160 US dollars for the civilian version of the weapon. I must say that this is a lot for such weapons, even very many. Nevertheless, the overall appearance of the machine is very interesting, although it would seem that only the butt was replaced and the barrel length was reduced.
Author:
Photos used:
noveske.com
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  1. omit
    omit 11 December 2017 16: 06
    +2
    Something is not visible manual rammer cartridge, maybe the automation is different?
    1. AlexMark
      11 December 2017 19: 10
      +4
      Quote: omit
      The translator of fire modes, the store eject button - everything is located in its place, but the rammer weapon lost.
      1. Michael HORNET
        Michael HORNET 14 December 2017 22: 46
        +1
        Analogue of AKSU) without a rammer - a purely civilian toy
  2. korriphila
    korriphila 11 December 2017 16: 13
    0
    Hmm, where is the famous shutter button on the right side?
  3. cannabis
    cannabis 11 December 2017 16: 25
    +1
    Quote from the text "after all, without a butt, even at short distances it is not worth talking about aimed fire, unless you are a hero of a Hollywood action movie,". Firstly. There is no distance in shooting, there is a distance in movement, and RANGE in shooting. Now about aiming fire. The shooter's task is to hit the target, and how he achieves this is his business. Sights are designed for firing at long ranges and during initial training. with an increase in the level of shooting skills, the need for the use of sights decreases. The main method of firing an experienced warrior is shooting from a belt. Surely an article translated from Busurman.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 11 December 2017 17: 13
      12
      Quote: cunning
      The main method of firing an experienced warrior is shooting from a belt.

      ??
      How are Nazi soldiers in Soviet war films?
      1. cannabis
        cannabis 11 December 2017 17: 29
        0
        Like Russian infantry officers.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 11 December 2017 18: 43
          +8
          Did Russian infantry officers use assault rifles / automatic rifles?
          1. cannabis
            cannabis 11 December 2017 18: 54
            +2
            Russian infantry officers used everything that came to hand - governesses, seamstresses, nurses, Komsomol secretaries and police investigators. And they shot from everything that had a barrel or a start button.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 11 December 2017 19: 07
              10
              Nevertheless, they did not practice firing “from the belly” of the three-ruler, nor firing from automatic weapons. Fact.
              So the question of "shooting from the belt" remains open.
              1. cannabis
                cannabis 11 December 2017 19: 13
                +1
                For whom it is open, for whom it is closed. Not everyone can sing or pull up on one hand, but that does not make others flawed. So there is another talent.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 11 December 2017 19: 20
                  12
                  Quote: cunning
                  Not everyone can sing or pull up on one arm

                  Right And not everyone knows how to shoot from weapons that have not yet been developed and produced.
    2. AlexMark
      11 December 2017 19: 07
      +6
      Busurmane now prefer not to write, but to shoot videos. The distance is the distance from the muzzle to the target that the bullet flies by, if you fit it to your definition. Yes, indeed, the maintenance of off-target fire takes place, with a high density of fire there are often situations when a weapon simply leans out of the shelter and the fire opens just in the direction of the enemy, because if you lean out yourself, there will be no one to shoot. However, not all collisions are accompanied by a high density of fire.
      I did not understand your logic a bit about sighting devices, or rather, rejecting them. Try to hit the half-growth target at least a hundred meters away without any aiming devices, be surprised how your skill level will go to zero.
      1. cannabis
        cannabis 11 December 2017 19: 25
        +4
        There is such an exercise in the shooting course. It is called UKS, and about 45 years ago it was called 3 USS. There were three goals - "Cow", a machine gun and a pair of moving growth. So being a company man, I performed it from the belt in motion. And what’s wrong with that? We had a fighter in the reconnaissance platoon of the regiment, who was pulled up on one hand, and in the other held a comrade. And our ancestors fought with two swords at once. And the Cossacks for the race threw a wounded man on a horse’s croup with one hand. And what’s wrong with that? These qualities are given to us to protect our land and not to use this gift is simply stupid.
        1. AlexMark
          11 December 2017 19: 42
          +4
          In no case do not question your words, but ... and how many more people could boast the same results?
          1. cannabis
            cannabis 11 December 2017 19: 57
            +3
            The vast majority of Soviet VOKU graduates perfectly possessed small arms. To get a bullet from the SVD at 800 meters without optics or at a hundred meters to shoot down the sleeve from the AKM was not considered something outstanding. A special chic at the School was thought to throw a grenade into the trench, jerk forward and after the explosion jump into a black cloud. This was called "Withstand the time" H ", that is, the moment when" the eggs of a Russian soldier hang over the enemy’s trench. "
            1. AlexMark
              11 December 2017 20: 56
              +4
              And the size of the target does not indicate which fell from the SVD with 800 meters without an optical sight?
              1. cannabis
                cannabis 11 December 2017 21: 03
                0
                25 by 30 cm. In the mountains, visibility is good.
                1. AlexMark
                  11 December 2017 21: 17
                  +6
                  Probably you still confused something. Look at the PSO-1 grid. In a circle, I circled what a person looks like with an increase in the 1,7 meter at a distance of 800 meters at 4's multiple magnification, you are talking about the 0,3 meter.

                  800 meters is two laps around the athletics stadium.
                  1. cannabis
                    cannabis 11 December 2017 21: 23
                    +1
                    Did you shoot from the SVD, SV or Mosin’s carbine? How much?
                    1. AlexMark
                      11 December 2017 21: 34
                      10
                      He shot, and as I have repeatedly said, the shooter is not the best of me. However, I understand perfectly how the target you specified at this distance looks like. The optical sight is not to shoot more accurately, but to see where you are shooting. Even in absolutely windless weather, with perfect visibility, with an ideal cartridge (which is important), using only the rear sight and the front sight to get at such a distance on the sighting target is a very big luck, not the skill of the shooter.

                      For some reason, the answer has completely gone down.
                      1. cannabis
                        cannabis 11 December 2017 21: 46
                        +1
                        What a horror! The sighting after all on 100 meters is set. And a commander's special joy, when, when casting to a normal battle, all the holes merge so directly with the corners, and right around the crosshair on the target, which is called the control point. I once saw a hunter on the shooting range. He targeted the rifle scope on the base of the SVD. I do not know what it's called. The poor of all the mothers! Shouted that the cartridges are bad. He turned the drums back and forth and drove holes on the target. He was furious, shouted that he was a master of sports and would sell this piece of iron. I did not offend him and teach correct alignment of the sight. What to climb into the affairs of an adult.
                    2. 4thParasinok
                      4thParasinok 12 January 2018 22: 51
                      0
                      Quote: cunning
                      Did you shoot from the SVD, SV or Mosin’s carbine? How much?
                      you already got smart and lie. You have already been caught lying in the open and still you can’t calm down. Believe me, you are not the only one who happened to hold a weapon in your hands.
            2. Michael HORNET
              Michael HORNET 15 December 2017 05: 24
              0
              Rave) ?? To a sleeve from AKM for a hundred meters? Well, maybe since the twentieth .... About SVD and 800 m without optics it’s better not to discuss it at all.
        2. robo spirit
          robo spirit 11 December 2017 22: 57
          +2
          Mr. Konoprav, enlighten, plz, what specific UKS do you mean, especially with the participation of the “Cow”, and in which NSD you met a similar standard, especially since it is carried out from the belt in the movement. And, if not entirely top-secret data, where are the companies taught this way? And then, here, I studied specifically in the rifle specialty, and we did not have such troubles. Including, one of the main disciplines: leading to a normal battle with SB and SSS. Something there I met with you about the commander’s joy, when 100 meters draw holes on the target with a cross. Sure? Do you know And at least STP what is it? Check Point? What is a "checkpoint" in your understanding? At 100 m, even from SVD, a hole near the hole and into the “cross” will not be drawn to you by any Siberian unless he is the Lord God and does not cancel the theory of probability with a wave of his hand.
          1. cannabis
            cannabis 11 December 2017 23: 19
            +2
            If you do not know what a "cow" (infantry for parapet) is, then you did not serve in the infantry at 60 or 70 and not in the 80s of the last century. Mid-point of hits .... Ekary Babai! But how can an hour and a half lead to a normal battle to tell all the weapons of a rifle company? The battalion is brought by automatic machines loaded with one cartridge. He shoots at a tin can for a hundred meters and if the bullet hits the target (a characteristic sound is heard), then the machine is given to the fighter - the norm. If there is no hit, then the machine is given to the company commander, who makes 4 shots at the sighting target. When 5-6 machine guns are gathered at the company, they and the battalion commander go to the targets and look at the results. They write it down. Upon returning, the company rotates flies, and the battalion commander with a hammer moves the bases to the right and left. After that, the battalion commander checks by shooting at the bank (10 cm diameter) and gives the machine to the fighter. SS, DIS, SBB, invented different shit, but nobody knows how to shoot.
            1. AlexMark
              12 December 2017 00: 28
              +7
              Wait. That is, at a distance of 100 meters, you determine the hit by the sound, that is, you cannot see it, but on 800 meters you hit the target exactly when the target is not visible? Strange selective vision for you.
              I do not go into the details of your method.
            2. robo spirit
              robo spirit 12 December 2017 00: 34
              +4
              Well, suppose I can shoot, and not bad. The collective farm method described by you for bringing to battle ... well, suppose all this is brought not to a normal battle, but to a battalion of a battalion commander and a company (battalion commanders, as a rule, here, in my memory, are not the best shooters). SD, SBB, SKO are, respectively, small arms, melee weapons (that is, grenade launchers and barrel artillery up to and including 30 mm caliber), and standard deviation. In the 60s - 80s he did not serve in the infantry. He served long afterwards, but also, as it were, not with his bast shoe.
              And they lead to normal combat, firstly, on the target, and not on the bank, secondly, the diameter of the target is 100 cm, not 15 (per 10 m) (10 is from a ballistic machine and in a shooting gallery), thirdly, one at a time to judge the state of the sights - from the hands and from the cold barrel - is the nonsense and arctic fox of unprofessionalism. And the term STP is not in vain because it was coined, don't you think? How do you determine the STP bank? Even for one machine, if for it the normal scattering diameter per 100 m is just 15 cm? That is, the battalion commander uses internal telekinesis to fire a bullet, as in the movie "Wanted"?
              1. brn521
                brn521 12 December 2017 10: 03
                +1
                You did not understand. Konoprav here simply cadet tales poisons. Such tales were everywhere in bulk. So to speak, military folklore.
        3. Mik13
          Mik13 12 December 2017 08: 47
          0
          Quote: cunning
          There is such an exercise in the shooting course. It is called UKS, and years ago 45 was called 3 USS. There were three goals - "Cow", a machine gun and a pair of moving growth. So being a company man, I performed it from the belt in motion. And what’s wrong with that?

          But let me doubt your words. Because:
          ZU US
          Shooting from a place on emerging targets with a change in firing position

          Objectives:
          - the attacking (retreating) infantry group - two arrows (target No. 7) located at different lines, simulating the movement (approach, removal) of the target, while the long-range shooter appears on 20 s, and the nearest - on 15 s with an interval of 10 - 15 with (day and night);
          - fire group - two figures: a machine gun (target No. 10) and a shooter (target No. 7) at the front of at least 10 m appear twice in 10 with day, at night - in 15 with an interval of 15 s;
          - the attacking shooter (target No. 7) appears once on 15 with day, at night - on 20 with; for a sniper rifle - a machine gun (target No. 10) appears twice in 10 day and night - in 15 s with an interval of 15 s.

          Range to targets (for AK, RPK): the attacking (retreating) infantry group - 450-550 m, the fire group - 250-350 m, the attacking shooter (light machine gun) - 150-250. For PCs, the range to the second target is 100 m longer.


          In addition, I do not believe in the possibility of getting "from the hip" from the PKK (and even more so from the PC) into the growth figure at distances greater than 100 meters ...
          It’s hard to imagine a situation where the head of the firing squad “runs” onto a target field with someone’s gun. That is, of course, something different happens in the army, but in order to put so much on safety ...

          By the way, CCS can no longer be called UKS because CCS is a Training Shooting Exercise, and UKS, respectively, is a Control Shooting Exercise. Their conditions are similar, but ...
          1. Mik13
            Mik13 12 December 2017 09: 02
            +1
            PS - reviewed the rest of the comments cannon - the character is either a schoolboy or a fat troll. In any case, he had nothing to do with military service, and even more so IT could not be an officer ... Even in the food service.
            1. brn521
              brn521 12 December 2017 10: 12
              +1
              Quote: Mik13
              In any case, he had nothing to do with military service.

              Quite the contrary, I certainly did. There I got these tales.
              Quote: Mik13
              either a fat troll

              Such trolls in military units were every second, probably. Have fun as they could.
    3. tracer
      tracer 11 December 2017 20: 18
      +2
      [quote] The main method of firing an experienced warrior is shooting from the belt. / quote]
      Af ... And .. Get ... You are far from all types of shooting like perhaps no one else. Yes, you are just a genius of amateurism !!! According to your logic, mortars from the belt are beating, and even artillerymen are even more so.
  4. andrewkor
    andrewkor 11 December 2017 18: 52
    +5
    Another AR-shaped Fueta, the scam of the suckers for money!
    1. AlexMark
      11 December 2017 19: 11
      +3
      In this case, I can not disagree with you) Despite the fact that I personally liked this version of ARKI very much, but the price is really horse for this weapon.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 11 December 2017 19: 29
        +2
        It’s just that AR-shaped with all their advantages still has a compactness problem. I heard that the Israelis were cutting their trunks very, very actively
        1. AlexMark
          11 December 2017 19: 52
          +4
          By the way, I have never understood why the same M16-M4 has been in service in the United States for so long with the general spread of light wheeled vehicles.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 11 December 2017 20: 15
            +1
            Apparently satisfied. The second option is the prevalence of pistols.
        2. tracer
          tracer 11 December 2017 20: 22
          +2
          Well, these cut AT ALL, not knowing what else will grow. Traditions...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 11 December 2017 20: 33
            +3
            That's not the point. It’s hard to “work” with a “long barrel” with a non-reclining butt when using armored vehicles
            It seems like the part of the M-16 was remade into a short barrel in the factory, but in the army they looked at this matter, and began to "cut" Type cool. 8)))
            Please note that they have tank commanders sticking out of the hatch, often with the barrel. It is reasonable to believe that to fire at a suddenly arisen target so quickly. And with the "classic" M-16 to emerge and dive, is problematic.
            1. cannabis
              cannabis 11 December 2017 21: 17
              0
              Quite the contrary. With armor, from a car body, more precisely, shooting with a butt (less angular vibrations from shaking). With the stock folded, it’s more convenient to shoot “from the belly”, observing from above and adjusting the aiming along tracers and ricochets. The butt is convenient when shooting with one hand, pressing it with his elbow.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 11 December 2017 21: 31
                +6
                Quote: cunning
                Quite the contrary. With armor, from a car body, more precisely, shooting with a butt

                Therefore, the Israelites shortened the trunk. However, with the butt of the M-16 they would have failed.

                Quote: cunning
                it’s more convenient to shoot “from the belly” by observing from above and adjusting aiming at tracers and ricochets.

                Tracera is evil. And the evil is absolute. Must be used for target designation only. As a last resort, as a signal of the end of the store.
                Well, to determine where your "rebounds", and where strangers, is very problematic.
                1. cannabis
                  cannabis 11 December 2017 21: 50
                  0
                  Then you can shoot the “path” - from yourself to the target, though the expense will increase, but for sure. And it’s best to take a PC, equip the tape through one with a PZ bullet and a “key problems” with aim adjustment.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 11 December 2017 22: 01
                    +2
                    Quote: cunning
                    Then you can shoot the “path” - from yourself to the target, though the expense will increase

                    Consumption in any case increase. Therefore, the most convenient tactic is to aim normally.
                  2. 4thParasinok
                    4thParasinok 12 January 2018 23: 00
                    0
                    Quote: cunning
                    And it’s best to take a PC, equip the tape through one with a PZ bullet and a “key problems” with aim adjustment.
                    with a machine gun in the hatch of the tank and from the belly ... even this comment is impossible, because nonsense.
              2. robo spirit
                robo spirit 12 December 2017 02: 02
                +4
                Konoprav, Something no matter how I stumble upon your kamenty, all - pearl. Buzzword: angular vibrations. And which vibrations are not angular, but? Unless longitudinal, which are called (well, except for the longitudinal waves that arise when the bullet moves along the bore) recoil momentum. The rest is somehow not entirely correct, but with a stretch can be attributed to the corner. With a folded butt, is it more convenient to shoot “from the belly”? Yes, "from the belly," even a pistol to shoot is inconvenient, if a couple of thousand at least not shot in this position at the shooting range. For tracers and ricochets, especially in the daytime, especially in a combat situation, when you are not the only one to shoot, you will not correct a damn. Shooting from a machine gun with a butt held by an armpit is the lot of movie heroes. Or fools who don't plan on getting into anyone.
                Damn, I'm sorry for being straightforward, dear, but you'd better be tossing and dropping bags than ....
  5. bunta
    bunta 11 December 2017 19: 09
    +5
    The design of the weapon based on AR-15 has one remarkable feature in the form of the so-called buffer spring (according to our return spring), which is located in the butt of the weapon.

    The spring can and can be moved, but the buffer itself does not. It spreads the recoil momentum in the rollback, and reduces the rebound of the bolt frame in the rollback.
    1. AlexMark
      11 December 2017 19: 49
      +3
      I do not remember now what exactly the American office did, but they produced the following disgrace. The ARKs extended the receiver box, attached a butt-folding butt to the side - as a result, a weapon with a full-sized butt-folding butt) And so that it didn’t look like it was wildly shifted the handle and controls back. This is the only way to completely resolve this issue, I have not met any other options. request
      1. groks
        groks 11 December 2017 22: 02
        +1
        Really disgrace. Minus barrel length at this distance. And then we must reach out to the forearm. And lying down? Bipods are necessary.
  6. AlexMark
    11 December 2017 21: 52
    +3
    Quote: cunning
    What a horror! The sighting after all on 100 meters is set. And a commander's special joy, when, when casting to a normal battle, all the holes merge so directly with the corners, and right around the crosshair on the target, which is called the control point. I once saw a hunter on the shooting range. He targeted the rifle scope on the base of the SVD. I do not know what it's called. The poor of all the mothers! Shouted that the cartridges are bad. He turned the drums back and forth and drove holes on the target. He was furious, shouted that he was a master of sports and would sell this piece of iron. I did not offend him and teach correct alignment of the sight. What to climb into the affairs of an adult.


    I'm telling you that you confused something, because you are talking about shooting only with open aiming devices actually at the sighting target, at a distance of 800 meters.
    1. cannabis
      cannabis 11 December 2017 22: 06
      0
      Take a ruler and measure the size of your head, so for fun.
      1. AlexMark
        11 December 2017 22: 31
        +6
        3 size gas mask. The joke was somewhat delayed, once again showing how a person will look at a distance of 800 meters with 4-s multiple magnification.

        At the same time, I am modestly silent about shooting at all, or rather about guaranteed hit, at a given distance from the SVD, even with an optical sight.
        Tell me, do you think the sniper should aim precisely at the opponent’s head, if he sees the opponent completely?
        1. cannabis
          cannabis 11 December 2017 22: 45
          +1
          Well, if I tell you that from the Thunder BMP-1 gun I fell into the handle of a shovel at a distance of 600 meters? Do not believe it too? Then why all this dialogue? If there are specialists who can sew on cut off fingers, then why do you refuse to trust other specialists in their professional skills? During the war, artillery officers made notches on the visors of their caps, with which they adjusted the fire of their batteries without using binoculars or stereo tubes with graduation of angular values.
          1. AlexMark
            11 December 2017 23: 05
            +6
            Yes, I do not argue that there are experts. But A - the capabilities of specialists are limited by human capabilities. B - the ability of the specialist is limited to the tools that he uses. Your example with surgery and artillery is incorrect. At a distance of 800 meters, your proposed 25 size on 30 centimeters will be no more than a point. And you claim that you are guaranteed to get to this point using only the SVD’s open sights? I think you exaggerate a little.
            The SVD is certainly an excellent weapon, but it is not a high-precision rifle, it has completely different tasks with which it copes with the 5, according to modern standards, even with the 4 with a plus. But what you are talking about is not a weapon’s ability or a shooter’s skills - it’s 100% luck.
            I do not exclude that this trick, but you can’t call it another way, you managed to reproduce it several times, but how many attempts were unsuccessful, of course, do not tell.
            Tell us why then the bolted SV-98 was made, if the self-loading SVD shows such excellent results? Or did some accurate marksmen, which how can you get into a large crow on an 800 meter with open aiming devices, be translated?
            1. cannabis
              cannabis 11 December 2017 23: 28
              0
              SVD rifle massive for a big war. In terms of its ballistic qualities, it is inferior to a PC machine gun, significantly inferior to PKT and SGM. About Mosinka is better not to remember - the standard. SVD is flimsy, fluid. The optical sight constantly requires verification and reconciliation. This is from personal experience.
              1. AlexMark
                11 December 2017 23: 40
                +5
                You have not answered the question. Anyway. SGM does give a more flat trajectory of the bullet, but also the length of the barrel and the grooves in it are different. At the same time, the question is, what do you mean by ballistic qualities?
                Well, if the SVD is flimsy and liquid, then how do you get out of it with open sighting on 800 meters on the target 25х30? smile
                1. cannabis
                  cannabis 11 December 2017 23: 46
                  0
                  I don’t understand, what are you doing about this? So do not.
                  1. AlexMark
                    11 December 2017 23: 58
                    +6
                    What are you, what complexes smile I just would like to see at least once on the Internet how a person writes: "Sorry, apparently I confused or forgot something." But no, we will not see this miracle with you. Even in spite of all the above arguments, you continue to bend your line, although you can already see for yourself that with your 800 meters you made a blunder.
                    1. cannabis
                      cannabis 12 December 2017 00: 04
                      +1
                      And if I say that I won a bottle of cognac from the regiment commander, having hit one 900 meter sleeper with a bullet (tracer), you also won’t believe it? Okay, then I won’t tell ..... I don’t understand what is special about this? It’s strange even.
                      1. AlexMark
                        12 December 2017 00: 08
                        +7
                        PM commander fired? smile Do you have any idea what 800, 900 meters are? How do different objects look at this distance? What is the angular minute in assessing the accuracy of hits? Honestly, until the last moment I waited for the mind to win, and you and I will translate your statements into a joke. He didn’t touch the characteristics of the weapon, nor the capabilities of the munition itself, did stress precisely at that moment that any person from the street would understand that the goal you indicated is barely visible to the naked eye. And some of your messages will surprise even those people who just served in military service.
                        You are very lucky that the weak article came out and few visitors would have laughed in the most unpleasant form.
                      2. robo spirit
                        robo spirit 12 December 2017 00: 42
                        +6
                        Konoprav, my eyes, as a profile-educated person, are bleeding from you. Tracer? At 900? Apparently, as I already wrote, you have telekinesis and bring the bullet to the target with the power of thought. Have you even noticed on the flight of the tracer that it starts to be noticeably conjured at 250-300 meters? The binoculars are especially noticeable when viewed from the side. This is all because the tracer burns out, and the center of gravity of the bullet shifts, which makes the trajectory unpredictably change. So share your secret, if not a “target”, but a sleeper with a tracer cartridge to hit the sleeper with one shot? Or was the sleeper 1500x1500? Or was it not a sleeper, but in general a bottleneck? The storyteller is you, dear. IMHO, of course. Suddenly you are really a telekinetic, and here I am chasing you ...
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 11 December 2017 23: 43
              +4
              Everything is easier. The angular size of the flies SVD, as I recall, 2 thousandths. 0.3 meters at a distance of 800 meters along the "blow a thousand" - about 0.4 thousand. That is, the front sight is visually wider than the target by 5 times
              8)))
              1. cannabis
                cannabis 11 December 2017 23: 49
                0
                So what? In Ruska, and then in the Red Army, there was an exercise for machine gunners Maxim - Cutting the barbed wire to a distance of 300 meters. The number of cartridges - 12 pcs. Well, count the thousandths and the thickness of the fly!
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 11 December 2017 23: 54
                  +7
                  Quote: cunning
                  So what? In Ruska, and then in the Red Army, there was an exercise for machine-gunners Maxim - Cutting barbed wire to a distance of 300 meters

                  And the Rules of Shooting during the war indicate that it is impractical to make passages in barbed wire with a caliber of less than 122 mm 8)))
                2. AlexMark
                  12 December 2017 00: 07
                  +9
                  And there was no exercise in penetrating the rail from AK? winked
                  And then we wonder why people do not go to the “Weapons” section of the site, this is how we lose valuable frames ...
                  1. Mik13
                    Mik13 12 December 2017 08: 55
                    +1
                    Quote: AlexMark
                    And there was no exercise in penetrating the rail from AK?

                    Judging by the comments that the subject managed to pile up, he punched a rail from AK on the move from the hip from a distance of 800 meters, and along. And in a dispute, he won something from the regiment commander ...
                3. robo spirit
                  robo spirit 12 December 2017 01: 10
                  +2
                  No, we have outlined on the course 332 (the materiel of small arms) ancient NSD, including from Maxim. But I don’t remember a damn thing, even in theory the possibility of chopping wire from a machine gun was considered. Is the link to the source possible? Or a scan, if in your arms suddenly? Anything for proof?
                4. robo spirit
                  robo spirit 12 December 2017 01: 48
                  +1
                  And, to begin with, the machine gun was not originally intended for single sniper shooting. You saw Maxim from the inside, saw what path the massive shutter walks there? And also a muzzle for enhanced returns? How at such impulses on the main links of automation can we talk about such aimed shooting? If for the "mosinka" such tasks were not posed with the same cartridge, what kind of tactical and technical genius figured out a wire from a machine gun with 12 rounds to break?
            3. psiho117
              psiho117 12 December 2017 06: 30
              +4
              Quote: AlexMark
              At a distance of 800 meters, your proposed target measuring 25 by 30 centimeters will be nothing more than a point. And you say that you are guaranteed to get to this point using only open SVD sights? I think you exaggerate a little.

              Ek, you gently ... I would not have restrained myself, and expressed everything I think about such a sound engine. (But I think that I am awake only abusively and negatively).
              I respect your endurance (well, or the desire to subtly touch) hi
              1. AlexMark
                12 December 2017 11: 05
                +5
                When I started to crochet, I started a hand, and since then even Buddhists have expelled me from everywhere laughing
  7. robo spirit
    robo spirit 11 December 2017 22: 45
    +2
    IMHO, the whole article and splashes in all directions with advertising. Repeatedly moving to the masses of thought: you might think that this is the M-16? Yes, this is the M-16! But how beautiful! Right here sweetie!
    And what is candy, I still do not understand. Well. it’s a little more compact M4 CAR, and then not much. The telescopic butt does not hold on to the tubes "one in the other", but on a retractable beam (who remembers the compromising material, should check out the doubtfulness of such an innovation. In short, IMHO, advertising and commerce. The author does not pay the tenge an hour for a potential opponent?)))
    1. AlexMark
      11 December 2017 23: 09
      +3
      laughing It would be enough for the author if they simply organized the opportunity to feel and carefully examine the insides of his machine, he doesn’t need any money to get into the water))) And in general, the M16 is really with minimal changes, but for some reason this product is, of all the shortened versions of this weapons, i quite liked. Just externally, as a beautiful thing) And the idea of ​​beauty is different for everyone, so I do not pretend to anything laughing
      1. robo spirit
        robo spirit 12 December 2017 00: 47
        +1
        Well, the new iPhone is also prettier than the old. But is it better?
        1. AlexMark
          12 December 2017 00: 58
          +3
          Well, apple products, I always obliquely contemplated. If they tell me what my phone on the android cannot do, what the iPhone can do, I can change my mind) Well, for the quality, here it is in 8 and 10 it manifests itself in the best way.
      2. robo spirit
        robo spirit 12 December 2017 00: 50
        +1
        By the way, I am not against AR systems at all. The gas outlet is bad for them - that’s understandable. And so on trifles jambs are accumulated, which they themselves eliminate with crutches. It is enough to recall the epoch-making key of the rammer))) But in general ... well, "Kalash", well, AR, and who else? Since 1950, roughly speaking, who else? For a while, the Germans teleported with their purely conservative videos on a half-free shutter - but this is an epic theater, citizens! The moment the shutter begins to roll back is unpredictable, respectively, there is neither stability of the internal ballistics, nor stability of the operation parameters of the automation links. That is, the accuracy of systems such as G3, is due solely to the quality of workmanship, and not the work of designers.
        1. AlexMark
          12 December 2017 01: 01
          +4
          There are a lot of interesting things. smile, but did not receive distribution. for it is expensive to re-equip, expensive to produce, for the sake of a few percent of accuracy will not be changed, aaaa is used here another cartridge - see nafig ... Here approximately with such wording everything is new and flies from 1950 of the year)
  8. psiho117
    psiho117 12 December 2017 06: 54
    0
    Quote: robo-spirit
    That is, the accuracy of systems like the G3 is determined solely by the quality of workmanship, and not by the work of the designers.

    Well, I don’t know ... even considering the notorious "German quality", I doubt that the PSG-1 achieved its result in 1 MOA at 300m only by selecting parts.
    And perfect samples - they also gave out 0,5 MOA - and this is with a poor 6x42 sight.
    And even the significantly simplified MSG90 has a gross accuracy of 1,5 MOA (and selected up to 1 MOA).
    So I think the dog is buried here in the roller shutter bully
    1. robo spirit
      robo spirit 12 December 2017 16: 04
      0
      No, here it is not a roller shutter, namely, that as the manufacture of trunks. Even without any selection, the trunks of the Germans are awesome. It is enough to recall that the line of rotational forging of trunks, on which IzhMash forged trunks for AK and SVD since the time of Khrushchev, is West German. The USSR, with all its industrial power, did not master such crap on its own. Before that, the trunks were burned (inside the rifling, they were pressed through with a mandrel, which led to the appearance of internal stresses in the barrel walls and was unpredictable, often not visible to the eye, but affecting the accuracy of the firing accuracy), and when rotated forged, they are obtained evenly forged and already with finished rifles. This is me because the Germans always had a lot of production technologies.
      And as for the scheme with the rollers ... Well, judge for yourself: the movement of the sleeve and the shutter begins simultaneously with the movement of the bullet. That is, there is no rigid fixation of the cartridge in the chamber. The most important stages of internal ballistics: pyrostatic and first pyrodynamic, in which the maximum pressure in the bore is achieved, depends on the quality of the manufacture of the liner, on the contamination of the chamber. If these processes are not stable from shot to shot, the initial speed is not stable either. Do not have faith buzz for accuracy, do not you?
      The only thing such a circuit can boast of is a slightly “smeared” recoil impulse.
      In general, I am inclined to believe that a semi-free roller shutter is more a hindrance than an advantage. And he inherited the G3 from MG42, where, at its frantic rate of fire, it provided precisely that “smeared”, “soft” return.
      1. bunta
        bunta 12 December 2017 19: 14
        +1
        German trunks are awesome. ]
        :)

        It’s enough to recall that the line of rotational forging of trunks,


        Rotary crimping. Now it's called that.

        IzhMash forged trunks for AK and SVD since the time of Khrushchev - West German.


        Since the time of Brezhnev. And not West German, but Austrian. By the way, when launching the rotation lines, the Austrians could not withstand the requirements of Izhmash and were on the verge of breaking the contract.
        The replacement of the mandrel with rotary compression is due solely to economic considerations, that is, the cost and speed of obtaining the finished trunks. Trunks made using these technologies have no difference in terms of accuracy or reliability.

        The USSR, with all its industrial power, did not master such crap on its own.

        The USSR was not an isolated country with the Juche ideology and resolved issues on the basis of economic feasibility, and not on the basis of the slogan of self-reliance. When the Austrians launched their own line for us, and the French launched the production of cars, we built dams and nuclear power plants, and delivered to Japan the most powerful hydraulic press at that time.

        This is me because the Germans always had a lot of production technologies.


        1. robo spirit
          robo spirit 12 December 2017 20: 00
          0
          And I would argue with you, dear. First, rotational forging and rotary crimping are two different processes. Secondly, even if Austrian is still German (I wrote West German to emphasize that it’s not the GDR). Thirdly, far from being only economic. It was cheaper to burn even with copper plating, if during the subsequent heat treatment half of the trunks were not "curly". Sorry, I received a civil higher education at IzhSTU, therefore I heard all these production conflicts firsthand and watched on the spot.
          When burning, internal stresses distort the barrel, whatever one may say. I have to let go, and the vacation has really “curls” at the exit - I personally saw it. In mass production, this is death. With small-scale bursting, individually, literally manually pulling out blanks - yes, burst and forge about the same quality.
          And yes, the last one: in no case did I want to belittle the achievements of the USSR, because he himself was born and raised, there is just not enough pentagonal stamp of GOST on the ass, he was a pioneer and skiing in the Komsomol. But - did not grow together. Only here is an objective fact: in technologies like rotational forging or electric power, our country lagged behind very seriously. In other areas, it could overtake, but here - no. Incidentally, that is the genius of our weapons production: to assemble a killer masterpiece from shit and sticks.
          1. bunta
            bunta 13 December 2017 07: 18
            +1
            Quote: robo-spirit
            And I would argue with you, dear. First, rotational forging and rotary crimping are two different processes.


            My dear, it's useless to argue with me:
            GOST 18970-84 Metal forming. Forging and stamping operation. Terms and Definitions.


            Quote: robo-spirit

            Before that, the trunks were burned (inside the rifling, they were pressed through with a mandrel, which led to the appearance of internal stresses in the barrel walls and was unpredictable, often not visible to the eye, but reflecting on the accuracy of the shooting curvature)


            Tell Lobaev about this:

            http://lobaevbarrels.ru/featured/lobaev-hummer-ba
            rrels-stvol-dlya-chempiona /

            I think that’s enough, Mr. "a very serious retailer." Is your last name not Ulanov by chance?
            1. robo spirit
              robo spirit 13 December 2017 09: 27
              0
              No, not Ulanov. And, yes, perhaps, he has lagged a little behind life, for he has been outside the profession since 2006. In my time, in 2000-2006. in Izhevsk, forging and crimping were somehow separated. Do you want an analogy? Here is a piece of meat. From it you need to make a chop. Will you beat meat with a hammer or roll it with a rolling pin? What process — pressing, forging, stamping, rolling — produces the maximum number of internal lattice defects? But the strength characteristics of the material depend on the number of internal defects of the crystal lattice.
              As for Lobaev, don’t you find that small-scale burnishing is significantly different from mass production? And Lobaev does exactly that very small-scale, using the Toyota production system.
            2. robo spirit
              robo spirit 13 December 2017 09: 40
              0
              And, yes, dear, I did not see any serious objections from you on the merits of the issue. And if you want to force your face off the photograph with authority ... well, I'm sorry, if I’m sure of something, I don’t receive a decree from either a man with the face of Clint Eastwood or a man with the face of Putin. And I'm sure - and convince me not with the accumulated links, but with a personal understanding of the issue. How is it with materials science? What do you know about crystal physics? What do you know about theories of strength? What do you know about internal and external ballistics? Do you want to talk about this?))) And about Lobaev ... well, he is a businessman, he can afford to burn trunks, but there is not enough dough and production space for rotational forging. Therefore praises the burning of the earth as "his swamp." Plus, if you at least understand anything about heat treatment, tell me: how can I make sure that a stressed barrel doesn’t "lead" when you leave? And if you know a method, how to apply it in mass production, and not at the level of even a high-tech, but still private artel?
              1. bunta
                bunta 13 December 2017 11: 16
                +2
                Quote: robo-spirit
                In my time, in 2000-2006. in Izhevsk, forging and crimping were somehow separated.

                You have a typical bouquet of network user syndromes. Reread my post again - it just says - Rotary crimping. NOW (!) It's called that.
                Und alles! I myself sometimes still call it forging out of habit. I broaden your horizons, and instead of "thank you" you climb into the bottle.

                As for knowledge of materials science and other sopromat. I have knowledge in this area. Here is a photo:

                I am far left. Does the name of the company mean anything? This is my friend and I sharing the experience of processing metal parts with an explosion in a gas mixture with our German colleagues.
                The picture was taken on the day of the collapse of the USSR.
                So, the problems that were on the EDM and which you may have observed at Izhmash still do not give reason to declare our absolute lag in this area. If there were problems with the electric power in Minmash, then at the enterprises of the Ministry of Environment and the General Ministry not only with the electric power, but also with laser and ultrasound processing, everything was fine.
                Declaring that we were behind in the "rotational forging" is generally stupid! Because we made trunks using this technology. The equipment was from Austria, but the technology was developed by our specialists and frustrated the Austrians until they turned blue, until they debugged as we needed. How can we talk about our lag in some technology if we made products using this technology on a scale that no one had just repeated ?! Your thesis about "lagging behind" is false, dear colleague. As well as Ulanov’s thesis about the backlog of Soviet stamping, which didn’t "manage" at the time to master stamped receiver for AK. (Read Sturmgever and Stamping).
  9. Serzh_R
    Serzh_R 12 December 2017 21: 57
    0
    Modern weapons are increasingly causing children's instinct to play with their sugary forms.
    Yes, the West made a bunch of such toys for itself and allowed its population to use them.
    They know well that if a Russian took up arms, it means that the time for games is over.
  10. the47th
    the47th 13 December 2017 19: 01
    0
    The AR with a folding butt appeared in 2000 and was called the LR300. She had a normal folding butt, and not this misunderstanding.
  11. 4thParasinok
    4thParasinok 12 January 2018 23: 35
    0
    Another advertising article. When the site introduces censorship for authors ...
    1. AlexMark
      20 January 2018 06: 18
      +1
      Around enemies) Advertise products on the resource an absolute majority of visitors who can not even see these products live)))
      1. 4thParasinok
        4thParasinok April 13 2018 21: 48
        0
        Quote: AlexMark
        Around enemies) Advertise products on the resource an absolute majority of visitors who can not even see these products live)))

        1. not every article is an advertisement, and you have most of them. Yes And first of all it is determined by style and content.
        2. Now I will again hear squeals that I dared to answer you already after 3 months, but only now I looked at your comment. But such is life, not your dreams about it, humble yourself ..
        1. AlexMark
          April 14 2018 23: 15
          +1
          That is, again, a set of words without arguments? You see a link to the store where you can buy these weapons, or maybe I specifically suggest you to buy it? And you understand what's the matter, judging by the nickname, you squeal you here.