Military Review

“Let's go to Kiev!”: A cry of a patriot or a provocateur?

91
Very often, in conversations and correspondence with former and current fighters and commanders of republican corps of Donbass, one has to listen to rather offensive words. "Are you really there, in Russia, you really see nothing or do not want to see?" And these words are largely true.




But when it comes to talking about the prospects of serious battles in the Donbass, about the approach of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, about the degree of readiness of LDNR armies for battles, many commentators have an iron argument like "everything in the APU is the same."

Indeed, in the comments to any article relating to the Donbass and the situation in the east of Ukraine, there will definitely be a group of “true patriots of the Russian world” and “guardians for the people of Donbass”. A group of those who will prove with foaming at the mouth the need to “allow the Donbass” an attack on Kiev and beyond. To run Ukrainian VSU "aki jackals mean".

Any reader or almost any of those who actually follow the publications on our resource, agree with our opinion. Soul we are all for the speedy resolution of the problem of the republics. And even in the overwhelming majority we hope that the residents of the republics will be able to restore the economy and other attributes of statehood. However, we need to control our own emotions and treat the situation wisely. See not what you want, but what happened today in reality.

Whatever we may say, but objectively, the Ukrainians' dream of European integration disappeared already in 2016. Today, Ukraine has no real levers of pressure on Russia. Extractive industries have already been replaced by domestic ones. Engineering too. Even the transit of goods by road successfully "left" to Poland. Next in line is the gas transportation system.

Trains run around Ukraine. Aircraft fly around Ukraine. Steamers sailing around Ukraine. Gas and oil too will soon go around Ukraine. And what goes to Ukraine? No matter how sad it sounds, the fact that the country literally exported 5-6 years ago. Thus, the only lever that remains in the hands of Kiev is the Russian people, Russian culture, the Donbass. Repressions in these areas give at least some trump cards in negotiations with Russia.

Unlike most ordinary people, the situation in Kiev was calculated long ago. This is not an accident or "surprising fact." Even the popular version in Ukraine with the seizure of power by "the wrong people" is nothing more than a hoax. Those people who were needed to do this work came to power. Ukrainians themselves planted themselves on the neck of the "drovers".

The question immediately arises of the grounds on which we reached such a conclusion. And for this you need to return to history backwards Someone remembers the first Donbass boilers? Not those about whom the patriots argue today on both sides. And the first and second? But the first in the boiler hit more Strelkov in Slavyansk. Remember more than a strange way out of the militia? And then there was Lysychansk. When the Ghost Brigade, escaping from the cauldron, left there almost all the equipment and art. And ammunition in such quantities that it captured the spirit.

These memories are not for sadness or hate. This is a reminder that even then, at the very beginning of the war, there were enough competent officers in the Armed Forces of Ukraine who were quite well planning operations.

There will immediately be shouts about the South (Izvarinsky) and Debaltsevsky. Everything is simple: another time, other people planned operations. Clear.

And now? After three years of war? Have you ever visited the Ukrainian resources for the sale of books? See the battle manual section. Very surprised. And if you carefully read at least one of them, you will understand that this is quality literature. And it began to be on sale already in 2014! And on the front end, according to the stories of fighters, in the abandoned trenches quite often found such benefits. Of the latest finds, a manual is given to combat Russian tanks. With an indication of weaknesses and ways of working in these places.

But this is "book science." But there is another. More simple and more effective. Practical training of soldiers. Who does this in the APU? Lapotniki from "jackets" or sergeants from the ATO and foreign instructors? One may laugh at NATO troops as much as necessary, but one should not underestimate military specialists from there. In NATO, "narrow specialization." Does anyone doubt the competence of Baltic snipers or sappers from Germany? Maybe the US marines are bad soldiers? Again, from conversations with Republican fighters. Snipers have become just a thunderstorm. Great weapon and sights in skillful hands. By the way, in the APU brigade now there is a company of snipers in the state. And in the Republican brigade - a platoon ...

And now look at the Republican corps. Yes, today there is a military training. Today, officers, of course, according to their abilities, train personnel. And who is next to the recruits? Where are the militia from Russia? Where are those who are among the first came out against the APU and terbats? Do you think they teach young? No, the first went home to Russia. The second went to work in Russia. Probably, now there is a reader who remembers the vacationers. They are also well prepared.

Only here is the problem. Even if we take for granted the presence of our "vacationers" in the Donbas, one unpleasant question arises. Hypothetically imagine that you are the commander of the unit. Receive an order to single out one "vacationer" combos. And immediately the second. About the next test or exercise. But tomorrow may be the third question. On the mission officer in the army in Syria. So which battalion will you send on vacation? The best or ...?

Training officers is also better with the APU. No matter how offensive it is to us, Ukraine today is using NATO's skills in training young officers, and teachers who know what war means are training future officers. Concrete war in the Donbass. One of the Republican artillery commanders told about the appearance of young officers in positions. This is not "burdock". Prepared qualitatively. Although "kosyachat" in his youth. But it will pass quickly.

From what is described above, there is another big problem for the republics. Just a huge problem. Do you know how many veteran IDs are issued in Ukraine by now? More 300 000! 300 thousands of ATO veterans! Not just soldiers, but veterans (a veteran from Latin means “survivor”) who went through the fighting. What kind of mobilization reserve has Kiev created over the years?

Even if not everyone rushes by the cry "to the front", but many will go anyway. Some for political reasons, some for financial reasons.

A few days ago, several media published "figures" for the autumn draft. Say, 3,95% of the stated number was called, the rest are on the run. At the same time, the figures from the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense indicate that 10 460 planned for the 1 December call for 9 864 people. Of these, according to the plan in the APU - 6600, auxiliary troops - 800, the rest - the National Guard.

The spring call was also quite successful. Called about 14 000 people.

For comparison: in 2016, more than 150 thousands were called up.

Another figure: the number of forces of the Supreme Court of Ukraine on the line of demarcation is estimated at 30 thousand people. Findings? The findings are disappointing. The main part of combat-ready units are contract soldiers. Yes, the salary of 10-12 thousand hryvnia, a little. But try to find another in the civilian world.

And how many veterans in LDNR? We have already written above about those who started. No matter how much they say and write that these people, in case of danger for the republics, will return and be put into operation, the worm of doubts here has grown to anaconda. At least those who were volunteers at 2014 have no special desire to be deceived again.

In principle, again without emotion, how many corps of republics can wage war with the enemy, which increases not only the training of soldiers and officers, but also the technical condition of the army? At the same time having a much greater mobilization resource? Even without going into a "resolute offensive." We will not set a specific date, but for any less than the APU. And if they go on the offensive, the classic, then without a whiff of the "north wind" live the corps of three or four days. From strength, with great stretch, a week for everything.

Even today, the superiority of the APU in technology is noticeable even to a simple soldier. The "nerves of the army" (connection) went so far that it was even jealous to envy the republicans with their antediluvian walkie-talkies. The time when a fighter was sifting through the spotted mobile phone was gone. In the APU phones are taken away from the soldiers severely. But the radios give for every taste. APU switched to a number. American, Turkish, German radio stations. For every taste, but since NATO, they work wonderfully with each other. And in LDNR there is not a single brigade in which the entire connection is digital. None.

We have a lot of laughter on the topic of "non-lethal weapons", which are generously sprinkled into Ukrainian little hands. And in vain. Walkie-talkies, counterbattery radar, EW systems - all this is not flying. Yes, do not fly, do not kill. Nothing, it is quite normal to make others. Those with beautiful western optics, including night ones.

Another issue is that if necessary, the APU with the help of gifts can actually organize dead silence on the air. American ground-based EW systems are inferior in quality to ours. But here questions of availability and ability to use them. But in case of successful application, the LDNR fighters will find themselves again in 2013, but the APU will not.

A lot has been said about Javelins. If you look at the mind, then to combat the armored veterans of the militia / corps represented by the Ukrainian T-64 and T-72 (at best with the letter "B"), the RPG-7 is enough above the roof. With a trained shooter.

“Javelins” in the Armed Forces of Ukraine are needed precisely in the case when the enemy will be worthy. T-72B3, T-90, with the "Curtain", "Relic", and most importantly, with crews who know how to use them. Do not forget that Ukraine is at war with Russia.

Another moment. Laughed not so long ago on the exhibition of weapons. Bugaga, Ukrainians morons, samopalyami fighting. This is about the Maximov Spark. But clever people scratched their heads. The idea is good. Two “Maxims” on such a machine is not only an opportunity to cast a good lead over 3 kilometers, since there are plenty of ammunition in Soledar caves. On the one hand, this is a great firing point at the checkpoint (ask the Germans what quadruple Maxim and Heinkels were throwing off the plane), on the other hand, you can release and use a more mobile PC or PKK in the right place.

The same is true for PCT, for which machine tools also vary. And in Kharkov, at the tank repair plant, there are still hundreds of them in warehouses.

No, it is not to laugh here, it is necessary to think here. Compared with our army, the Armed Forces of Ukraine, of course, the goal is erratic, but the need for invention is tricky historically.

You can write many more facts that will play against the Republicans. Alas, this is so. But there is one rather serious argument for. The corps not only learned how to fight in defense, but also perfectly equipped their positions. Even though the Armed Forces of Ukraine are well aware of the defense of the Republicans, the intelligence of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has long since become not to gather information on fields and fishing lines, but with the help of electronic warfare, UAVs, agents in parts of the LPR and other methods not related to the cinema “language searches”, to take they will not succeed in a swoop. Is needed aviation, air strikes are needed.

By the way, for those who doubt the availability of the Ukrainian Armed Forces aviation. Yes, airplanes and helicopters of the Ukrainian Armed Forces cause a smile rather than horror. But unmanned bombers that lay mines from 82-mm mortar from a height of 100-200 meters into a trench, like a pretty penny, are. These UAVs really bother the Republicans.

Another important point. Propaganda.

Ukrainian propaganda, as all events from 2013 showed, is a very strong thing. And in the situation in which it is conducted, Ukrainian propaganda is often more logical and understandable than our propaganda. Even with the sometimes fantastic dope filling. Believe and accept.

About the fact that they are stuffing the Ukrainian fighters into the heads, we will talk in another article in more detail, thankfully, we talked to representatives of the Ukrainian Armed Forces who have served their services just a few days ago. It's worth it.

In general, today, we consider any talk about the march on Kiev, Kharkov and in any other direction as enemy propaganda. Propaganda pro-Ukrainian forces. It doesn’t matter where the cry “Forward to Kiev!” Comes from, from the trench or from the sofa. It is clear that from the couch, only there such rabid "experts" live. Tomorrow they will get up and go. To Kiev.

Who in the trenches, of course, they are silent. They have no cry than to occupy themselves.

Behind every shout of “Forward!” There are Ukrainian and pro-Ukrainian provocateurs, whose dream is to destroy the Republican corps in the “open field” and seize the unprotected Donbass in a short time.

For every cry that if it were not for the Russians, we would have taken Kiev a long time ago, there are Kiev provocateurs. If the command and leadership of the republics does not give a command to the stupid attack and the heroic death of the soldiers of the corps, then the officers there are sensible. Clever officers who understand what the Forshmak corps will turn into in this attack.
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  1. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 5 December 2017 06: 30 New
    +8
    then the officers there are sensible
    That’s why you’re thinking, and not just wear a cap!
    1. Zibelew
      Zibelew 5 December 2017 08: 03 New
      +2
      Just the Ukrainian contract army is fighting. It is created by Ukraine, the USA and their allies. By the way, the article itself is written based on this note "Everything is exactly the same for them"
      https://kenigtiger.livejournal.com/1859834.html
      1. Vend
        Vend 5 December 2017 09: 15 New
        +1
        Behind every shout of “Forward!” There are Ukrainian and pro-Ukrainian provocateurs, whose dream is to destroy the Republican corps in the “open field” and seize the unprotected Donbass in a short time.
        Not even two years had passed before the confirmation of my words began.
      2. valerij
        valerij 5 December 2017 21: 23 New
        0
        Where did the good people go?
    2. Megatron
      Megatron 5 December 2017 14: 16 New
      10
      What a defeatist article, in the spirit of a shooter - everything has disappeared!

      From all this, only one thing is clear - that the Minsk agreements were a betrayal when they did not let Mariupol be taken, and indeed to destroy the entire front, turning the remnants of the whole place to flight.
      1. A_L_F
        A_L_F 5 December 2017 22: 10 New
        +1
        Quote: Megatron
        What a defeatist article, in the spirit of a shooter - everything has disappeared!
        From all this, only one thing is clear - that the Minsk agreements were a betrayal when they did not let Mariupol be taken, and indeed to destroy the entire front, turning the remnants of the whole place to flight.


        The United States then sought this: to repeat the scenario of Yugoslavia, to draw Europe into Russia in the war, but the Minsk agreements then tempered the ardor, stopped the attacks on both sides of the conflict
        1. Megatron
          Megatron 6 December 2017 15: 57 New
          0
          And what does Russia have to do with it. Our official soldiers and the Altai armored police were not there. If it weren’t for Minsk, Zakharenko would most likely have sat in kuev and carried out denazification, and the demarcation line would go along the Dnieper at least, with access to the PMR.
          1. Normal ok
            Normal ok 7 December 2017 00: 45 New
            0
            Quote: Megatron
            If it weren’t for Minsk, Zakharenko would most likely have sat in kuev and carried out denazification, and the demarcation line would go along the Dnieper at least, with access to the PMR.

            Just a rut.
      2. horhe48
        horhe48 6 December 2017 09: 51 New
        +5
        I disagree. The article is correct, but does our military-political leadership understand that somewhere before the election of our president (most likely in the second half of January-February) the APU will launch a decisive attack? We will see in fact. This is not "barmaleev "bombing with impunity. You have to think and prepare. How? 1) Without waiting until the thunder strikes put the DNR and LNR corps under a single command. 2) Start supplying the necessary air defense systems, anti-tank weapons, significantly strengthen the artillery grouping, taking into account the conduct and counter-battery combat (if the NATO supply, then why should we cheat?), carrying out the entire complex of preparing troops for and the area for a defensive operation, preparing the rear, communications, transport routes, roads, etc. 3) Prepare settlements for defense, prepare weapons and ammunition for distribution to volunteers., mine infrastructure and important enterprises so that the enemy does not get anything. These and other measures should lead to the fact that the APU will use up th offensive potential, their troops and reserves and get stuck in the battles for settlements. Here then it will be possible to carry out an operation to force dill to the world. Only not as with the Georgians. (It is not clear why the troops stopped on the outskirts of Tbilisi). Uninvited enemy it won’t get any kinder. (Georgians still want to join NATO) We must finish off and give power to dill to other people.
  2. Ural resident
    Ural resident 5 December 2017 06: 31 New
    +5
    I agree completely with the article. In a clash, the LDNR army will be in an extremely losing position. If only the north wind, but this is already a completely different scale and another saga - there will be no easy walk - time is lost - not 2013-2014. The CIA, which is seated in the SBU — keeps everything under control — is very methodically comprehensive and competent, albeit cynical. Now to fight, having waited 3 years, when the enemy strengthens - it will be even dumber than before.
    Why then the political "reconciliation" all this time unwound. Now we’ll have to “push” our line to the end.
    1. dSK
      dSK 5 December 2017 06: 44 New
      +6
      Quote: A resident of the Urals
      In the clash of the LDNR army

      They are their Homeland protect: "An anti-sniper from the DPR:" Ukrainian fighters "Mariupol God" and "Grandfather" challenged me to a duel, I sent them to Bandera. "
      Quote: Resident of the Urals
      Now we’ll have to “push” our line to the end.

      The introduction of the Russian "peacekeepers" (Samara division) will ensure peace on the "Donbass wedge".
      1. Ural resident
        Ural resident 5 December 2017 07: 00 New
        +7
        Russian peacekeepers under the auspices of the UN would probably defuse the situation.
        Nobody denies the heroism of the militias, but alas, the forces are not comparable.
        I recall the beginning of events when the Southeastern regions in the person of deputies and regional leaders announced their "unsupport" Maidan. And then it was necessary to help them. And so quickly they were put in their place.
        Even then, in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, soldiers were "diluted" by the Nazis from the right sector to force them to fight. Who didn’t want to-just shot. Properly, the enemy acted then and now. But then there was a real split among the people and it was necessary to support the anti-Maidan part, at least at the first stage. In addition to the military, there are many other ways in the arsenal of special services.
        Now, de facto, those who could stand in the southeast against the junta are safely fighting in the ATO against Donbass.
        1. Hlavaty
          Hlavaty 5 December 2017 16: 17 New
          +6
          Quote: Resident of the Urals
          when the South-Eastern regions in the person of deputies and regional leaders announced their "unsupportment" of the Maidan. And then it was necessary to help them.

          Then there was no time when Putin poured blood at the Olympics in Kiev. And everyone said: "You can’t allow any provocations to disrupt the Olympics! The Olympics are the prestige of Russia!" And then what? No prestige of Russia has prevented the sanctions, which the further the more imposed on Russia. And now Russia has also been deprived of Olympic medals. It generally looks like a slap in the West personally to Putin. Like, this is how we built it: then, because of the Olympics, I was afraid to help Ukraine, and today we will also take away the medals, and Putin will rub off again.
        2. Trom
          Trom 5 December 2017 21: 13 New
          0
          it was necessary to support the anti-Maidan part

          Alas! “History does not know the subjunctive mood”, however trite it may sound ... We do not know everything even now about that period in order to discuss now the decisions adopted by the GDP. Everyone wants to end the Ukrainian junta - the question is at what cost and how? remains relevant to this day. Until now, I only read about assumptions in this regard, and only three years have passed ...
          1. killganoff
            killganoff 5 December 2017 22: 03 New
            +5
            GDP decisions ??? !!! What is it all about, if such figures as Chubais and Medvedev are sitting at the side of the supreme! How much can you spit in the face of your people ?! Wake up !!! Tupin leads everything according to the same plan as Yeltsin. If there are arguments to counterbalance, I wait!
            The rise of industry is one window dress !!!
            The rise of agriculture - window dressing!
            Medicine or education ??? Or the defense industry really revived - no! With Chinese and American microprocessors and other elements of microelectronics installed in our technology, we can not do anything ... Yes, we do not produce our products, this is reality !!!! Look at all the equipment in your apartments, if there is a Russian name there, then only imported filling under the body !!!
            Remember the domestic equipment "Rubin", "Record", "Vega", "Spring", "Carat", "Ishim", "Brig", "Carat", "Surf", "Electronics" ... even the Baltic "Radio Engineering" factory named after A.S. Popov! And the cars "Lada", "Volga", "The Seagull", the government "ZIL" or the automated space shuttle "BURAN" as well as other names that caused a sincere sense of pride !!!!
            What can you give as an example today ????? !!!! VAZ belonging to the Renault-Nissan concern, or the chocolate factory "Russia" which has long been sold to "Nestle" ??? Or a watch factory “ZiM” which has not existed for a long time, as well as the best factory in the union “Rocket” producing piece goods now .................. Wake up, people, Russians! !!!
            1. Normal ok
              Normal ok 7 December 2017 00: 47 New
              0
              Quote: killganoff
              GDP decisions ??? !!! What is it all about, if such figures as Chubais and Medvedev are sitting at the side of the supreme!

              Yeah, the king is kind, but the boyars are to blame. And the fact that this is one system you do not want to see.
    2. Chertt
      Chertt 5 December 2017 06: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: Resident of the Urals
      Now to fight, having waited 3 years, when the enemy strengthens - it will be even dumber than before.

      As I understand it, we are sitting by the river and waiting for the corpse of the enemy to pass by us
      1. Ural resident
        Ural resident 5 December 2017 07: 04 New
        +8
        That's just the point - the corpse will not swim already. We got a hostile state at our side from our same conspirators. Further it will be even more difficult - the states will not detach. The number of options for countering is declining every year. I don’t know, of course - it can be seen from the Kremlin towers.
        1. Chertt
          Chertt 5 December 2017 07: 10 New
          +4
          Quote: Resident of the Urals
          That's just the point - the corpse will not swim already

          Many disagree with you, waiting any day
          Quote: Resident of the Urals
          states will not unhook.

          So mattresses can have such problems that it will not be to Ukraine
      2. Skarpzd
        Skarpzd 6 December 2017 02: 24 New
        +1
        the whole thing is that if you stupidly sit by the river, then you can die of thirst.
      3. Normal ok
        Normal ok 7 December 2017 00: 48 New
        0
        Quote: Chertt
        As I understand it, we are sitting by the river and waiting for the corpse of the enemy to pass by us

        Something like that. But, unlike China, Russia does not have such an opportunity - to wait a long time.
  3. Shurale
    Shurale 5 December 2017 06: 38 New
    +3
    It is necessary to create a new section on the site and name it "smoking room" ...
    1. BMP-2
      BMP-2 5 December 2017 16: 29 New
      +7
      This, as I understand it, for smokers of a cunning plan? laughing
  4. samarin1969
    samarin1969 5 December 2017 06: 40 New
    11
    "... without blowing" North Wind "to live the corps of the day three or four" ....- close to the truth.
    What are the respected authors hoping for? ...
    "Trains go around Ukraine. Planes fly around Ukraine. Steamboats sail around Ukraine. Gas and oil will also go around Ukraine soon. But what goes to Ukraine? No matter how sad this sounds, what the country exported 5-6 years ago. thus, the only lever that remains in the hands of Kiev is the Russian people, Russian culture, the Donbass. Repression in these areas gives at least some trump cards in negotiations with Russia. "
    This will not stop Ukraine. Donbass - will fall earlier. And for repressions against Russians, people of the West only applaud. ...
    Without a political decision of the Russian Federation in the Donbass, there is no future for LDNR or Russia itself. Instead of Russia there will be a territory without history, without an idea, a certain "electorate" and "labor resources" .... But for a long time it makes no sense to go to Kiev - strangers already live there.
    1. avia12005
      avia12005 5 December 2017 06: 49 New
      +6
      The West will not allow Nazi Ukraine to fall without war with Russia. The policy of waiting is a dead end, fraught with tragic consequences in the form of tens of thousands of victims.
    2. Chertt
      Chertt 5 December 2017 07: 02 New
      +3
      Quote: samarin1969
      Donbass - will fall earlier

      Why? Do you know something, but keep quiet? Share it
      Quote: samarin1969
      Without a political decision of the Russian Federation in the Donbass, there is no future for LDNR,

      Were you absent Political decisions are made, and economic work is not being carried out as fast as most would like. But probably at the pace that is possible in this situation
      Quote: samarin1969
      Instead of Russia there will be a territory without history, without an idea, a certain "electorate" and "labor resources".

      Let's not fulfill the dreams of the "Western partners" and their jackals ..... May Russia live
      1. Romey
        Romey 5 December 2017 11: 20 New
        +8
        Were you absent Political decisions are made, and economic work is not being carried out as fast as most would like. But probably at the pace that is possible in this situation

        What solutions are you talking about? If it’s about Minsking, then this is a road to nowhere, moreover, this procedure has already completed its task: the Banderas escaped defeat and put their army in order, moreover, it’s now too tough for even the regular Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, because it was shot at, pumped up by Western equipment and technology, and most importantly very, very motivated, like the population of Ukraine as a whole. There are no longer any supporters of the Russian Spring, no matter what optimists like Yrysuma say. In general, I’ve overcome it, and you can laugh at the photo-frogs from the boilers of 2014 arbitrarily, but the fact remains: we begin the offensive in all strategic directions from Sumy and Chernigov to Mariupol according to all the rules of military science, it will already be a really difficult, stubborn war to which the Russian Federation is not ready either morally, and even less financially. Especially on the eve of the most severe systemic economic and total political crisis with factors of unprecedented external pressure.
        If we are talking about the economy of Donbass, then what kind of economic work can we talk about in the front-line zone? Only black and gray schemes and smuggling on the balance of the budget of the Russian Federation, which is not rubber and as someone said, there is no money. Even on the Barguzin. In general, what we very much love, due to put it mildly, some features of the economy and government of the Russian Federation. Again, the same peremoga. A suitcase without a handle: you can’t leave it and carry it too, because you can’t shove the unfortunate Donetsk people to Bandera, because immediately the sacred Crimea looms on the horizon. Briefly summarizing: no solutions and no work there has long been gone. Only two eternal questions: Who is to blame? and what to do?
  5. inkass_98
    inkass_98 5 December 2017 06: 54 New
    +5
    And what was the article about? That the situation for the republics has no military solution? So it has long been clear, too different potentials in opposing territories. But Russia has no reason to get into a full-fledged war with b / y, although the outcome here would be unambiguous, and no supplies from NATO and the US would have reversed the situation. And people in the republics are tired, that’s understandable. The war will soon be as much as the Great Patriotic War, but the lumen is still not visible.
    A lot of bukaff just to take a place?
    1. Chertt
      Chertt 5 December 2017 07: 06 New
      +5
      The authors believe that the majority of Russians, as it were, “not distant” and from time to time, tell us rumors obvious things. Well, not to be forgotten
    2. SPACE
      SPACE 5 December 2017 08: 29 New
      11
      Quote: inkass_98
      And what was the article about? That the situation for the republics has no military solution? So it has long been clear, too different potentials in opposing territories. But Russia has no reason to get into a full-fledged war with b / y, although the outcome here would be unambiguous, and no supplies from NATO and the US would have reversed the situation.

      Indeed, the DNR does not make sense to attack regarding the APU, for example, they decided once again to forcefully crush the Donbass, the question is what Russia will do, and Russia has no other options how to start an operation to force peace, will spread the APU and push the borders to the Dnieper. Next, you need to understand what will Europe and the United States do? Fight directly with Russia? Most likely, they will choose the option of the occupation of the west of Ukraine, in general, who will manage to capture something, following the example of Syria, as a result, the collapse of Ukraine. A power scenario can only be this. In the meantime, everything is going according to plan, thanks to Minsk, a frozen external conflict, and the continuous struggle of forces within Ukraine, the economy ... at best, will receive federalization, at worst, it’s all the same collapse.
      1. andrew xnumx
        andrew xnumx 5 December 2017 23: 02 New
        +2
        Very correct opinion. But the defense of Donbass still needs to be strengthened. Yes, calls to go to Kiev are complete nonsense. But to make it so that the offensive of the Armed Forces is drowned in the blood is quite possible. This includes total mining, landmines in tank hazardous areas, the maximum saturation of the Donbass with anti-tank, counter-battery weapons, as well as portable air defense systems. Much can be done for effective defense.
      2. Normal ok
        Normal ok 7 December 2017 00: 52 New
        0
        Quote: SPACE
        push the borders to the Dnieper

        Even assuming such a fantastic scenario, it will be the "swan song" of Russia. After that, China (purely economically) will dictate further living conditions to Russia.
        1. the lord
          the lord 7 December 2017 03: 55 New
          +1
          What a strategic and completely impossible conclusion))))). True say the power of a fool in silence
  6. V. Ushakov
    V. Ushakov 5 December 2017 07: 05 New
    11
    Yes, it’s not at all the “armies” of the DPR and LPR that are in the Russian Armed Forces.
    A couple of tough raids by Russian aviation and no “tanks” are needed.
    The deployment of the APU, determined by satellite tracking.
    Missiles - there are, flying, judging by Syria - is good.
    So what's the matter?
    Afraid of NATO, or what? Or are we afraid of “brothers” to destroy more than is necessary and / or enough ?.
    So, NATO will not fight for the "nenka", the United States will not strike a nuclear strike, and the "brothers", a long time ago, are banal fascists.
    The West will not remove the sanctions anyway, never from the word.
    Or even simpler, the elite fears for their foreign "excessive savings" and foreign children as well ... Then - another thing ...
    1. BMP-2
      BMP-2 5 December 2017 16: 26 New
      +3
      I agree: Israel itself does not hesitate to strike at Hezbollah: then it simply declares that "they have come too close!" laughing
    2. andrew xnumx
      andrew xnumx 6 December 2017 22: 59 New
      0
      This is not quite the right opinion. For our foreign policy and international situation, it is desirable that the republics “as it were themselves” repulse the blow of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, with our help, but without regular units. But if, nevertheless, a dangerous breakthrough of the Armed Forces of Ukraine occurs, then our aviation must instantly deliver a devastating blow. And the matter is not only in the speed of aviation. It is simply desirable that after the defeat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine our "tank columns" no one sees. The deployment of ground forces is the most extreme measure.
  7. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 5 December 2017 07: 11 New
    +3
    I agree with the authors. APU - don’t rush into the frontal to take the Donbass - because they’re not sure that the “North Wind” will not blow, and dying in attacks on prepared positions is not even a “stubborn” hunt.
    The real state of the Armed Forces at the moment, apparently, has greatly improved relative to the 14th year, the authors know better, they are “in the subject”.
    In its "artillery" thought, the APU should already have problems with artillery. Deterioration of trunks, old ammunition ... They haven’t been able to fix it yet ...
    1. andrew xnumx
      andrew xnumx 6 December 2017 23: 05 New
      0
      Here you are wrong. The United States is interested in aggravation. This is revenge for the loss in Syria, as well as an attempt to aggravate the situation on the eve of our elections. Something will be required. By the way, maybe during the Olympics. They love the United States to organize provocations, wars or coups precisely during the Olympics or other outstanding events.
    2. the lord
      the lord 7 December 2017 03: 58 New
      0
      And how did their condition improve? Well, Ibonatovskis showed them how to hold on to a tit, so this is too little for success. Moreover, the Ibonatians themselves, as it turned out, are very far from the concepts of "victory in the war." They only start to contrive them
  8. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 5 December 2017 07: 28 New
    +3
    “Let's go to Kiev!”
    It may be more reasonable to get firmly on your feet within your administrative boundaries. Strengthen your army to such an extent that not one enemy would even think about attacking the DLNR. And "going to Kiev" is certainly not serious.
    1. the lord
      the lord 7 December 2017 04: 01 New
      0
      Lastly, Alexander Vasilich didn’t teach this: The enemy must be beaten, not watched. It’s just a shame to charge the descendants of problem solving, having the opportunity to fix it ourselves.
  9. baudolino
    baudolino 5 December 2017 07: 28 New
    +6
    Opinion of a resident of Donetsk - articles of experts are very annoying, he knows where from the written figs. Even if you repeatedly cited facts, it is very annoying.
    1. vovanpain
      vovanpain 5 December 2017 12: 54 New
      +4
      Quote: baudolino
      Opinion of a resident of Donetsk - articles of experts are very annoying, he knows where from the written figs. Even if you repeatedly cited facts, it is very annoying.

      Actually, Alexander Roman Skomorokhov and Alexander Staver think people, like their articles, first of all make them think and analyze a colleague, no matter how unpleasant it sounds, there is a grain of truth in the article, and since you Donetsk citizen probably knows that you don’t have to go to Kiev and Kharkov they wouldn’t go either in 2014, and even more so now, what’s going to happen even though I don’t know, it’s necessary to be in the thick of things in the Kremlin, on Bankova, Washington, but something is being planned for sure, fussing with peacekeepers, reformatting the LPR. hi
      1. BMP-2
        BMP-2 5 December 2017 16: 22 New
        +4
        Vladimir, the intellectual abilities of Skomorokhov and Staver are not questioned here. Rejection is caused by some ideas that they take to promote.

        As for the "fuss" - I completely agree: this is exactly what is happening now.

        In the "cunning plan" - less and less is believed. Well, either the plan is too cleverly strategic, which not only everyone is able to understand ... laughing
        1. vovanpain
          vovanpain 5 December 2017 16: 55 New
          +6
          Quote: BMP-2
          In the "cunning plan" - less and less is believed

          Vladimir, in general, I don’t believe in any plans anymore, neither cunning nor simple, it’s just some strange fuss, everyone started to feel that way, and there the curve will take you there. request I’m not saying that Roman and Alexander all know and own the information, but there is a grain of truth, there is in this article, they correctly say that dill should not be thrown in hats and chopped with checkers on the couch. Ukrainians are exactly the same as we are, no matter how anyone says something, neither they, we don’t think either European or American, we think and act in our own way, in Russian, in Slavic, as you can still call it, our mentality is different and, as it were, a crest they screamed that they were Europe, more likely the priest of Europe. And recently, the article was here, the author of Mikle1: https: //topwar.ru/130378-chto-delayut-amer
          ikanskie-oficery-na-ukraine.html
          And here the puzzle develops yes I’ve written for a long time that Ukrainians are a weapon against us, that Ukrainians themselves are not needed by the same Anglo-Saxons and Europe, they need Russia and mattresses do not teach anyone in the Armed Forces, nor in the National Guard, they learn, they look at our tactics of warfare , on the psychology of fighters and stuff. Do they understand this in the Kremlin. hi
          1. BMP-2
            BMP-2 5 December 2017 17: 48 New
            +3
            Yes, in the article you mentioned by Mikhail Onufrienko, a competent analysis is carried out, and its conclusions are quite logical. Does the Kremlin understand this? I do not know. The only obvious thing is that understanding the situation and understanding which course of action will resolve it are two different understandings. lol On the other hand, it’s better to make at least some decision than not to make any ...
            1. vovanpain
              vovanpain 5 December 2017 18: 00 New
              +4
              Quote: BMP-2
              On the other hand, it’s better to make at least some decision than not to make any ...

              Vladimir seems to have made a decision in the Kremlin to follow the Chinese proverb about a monkey waiting for an enemy’s corpse floating by, only if request
              1. BMP-2
                BMP-2 5 December 2017 18: 14 New
                +4
                Wait then maybe it will. what The problem is that the number of monkeys in Kiev is gradually increasing, and the current reforms in the Ukrainian education system will contribute to this. yes
  10. Herculesic
    Herculesic 5 December 2017 09: 22 New
    +9
    And where were you so smart in the 14th year? I understand that the republics urgently need to disband, armies self-dissolve? If our grandfathers fought like that in the Great Patriotic War, by the numbers, of someone more, we would not have won that war!
  11. tochila
    tochila 5 December 2017 10: 27 New
    +2
    Block diesel supplies to Ukraine and the end of the war!
  12. prior
    prior 5 December 2017 10: 32 New
    +7
    Moscow does not need Kiev, nor a banned Ukraine, nor the presence of NATO troops in Ukraine.
    No matter how cynical it sounds, the frozen conflict in the Donbass is beneficial to the Kremlin.
    And people .... When and who in Russia spared ordinary people, maybe the tsar-priest, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Yeltsin .... who?
    Women still give birth, it is only necessary to increase the "maternal capital".
    And the fact that the West is arming the Armed Forces of Ukraine against “aggressive” Russia, so what's so surprising about this? We are the enemy for them!
    1. Normal ok
      Normal ok 7 December 2017 00: 57 New
      0
      Quote: prior
      No matter how cynical it sounds, the frozen conflict in the Donbass is beneficial to the Kremlin.

      I wrote about this for a long time. Donbass turned out to be a bargaining chip in other issues that are much more important for Russia.
  13. captain
    captain 5 December 2017 11: 01 New
    +8
    The strategic mistake of our leadership is to stop the attack on Mariupol. It was necessary to take Mariupol and then sit at the negotiating table. We could not beat the West at that stage and now we have very great difficulties.
    1. Romey
      Romey 5 December 2017 13: 58 New
      +3
      The strategic mistake of our leadership is to stop the attack on Mariupol.

      The capture of Mariupol as such did not particularly solve anything. The most reliable way to secure their positions was the liberation of at least four regions with the penetration of the land corridor to the Crimea by forces of the Russian Armed Forces, at the request of the legitimate president. Ideally, plus Nikolaev and Odessa. After that, it would be possible to start negotiations, the participant of which would be the legitimate government of Yanukovych, and it would be possible to bargain from a position of strength. Unfortunately, a number of steps were taken that directly led to the final defeat in Ukraine. What it will lead to tell, I think is not necessary.
      1. BMP-2
        BMP-2 5 December 2017 16: 15 New
        +1
        Well, the war is not over: not all Russian people in Ukraine have yet been destroyed. Although, it seems that everything goes to this: destruction or assimilation. Which is essentially the same thing.
      2. captain
        captain 5 December 2017 18: 18 New
        +5
        Quote: romey
        The strategic mistake of our leadership is to stop the attack on Mariupol.

        The capture of Mariupol as such did not particularly solve anything. The most reliable way to secure their positions was the liberation of at least four regions with the penetration of the land corridor to the Crimea by forces of the Russian Armed Forces, at the request of the legitimate president. Ideally, plus Nikolaev and Odessa. After that, it would be possible to start negotiations, the participant of which would be the legitimate government of Yanukovych, and it would be possible to bargain from a position of strength. Unfortunately, a number of steps were taken that directly led to the final defeat in Ukraine. What it will lead to tell, I think is not necessary.

        In the case of the capture of Mariupol, Ukraine would have crumbled.
        1. Romey
          Romey 5 December 2017 19: 49 New
          +3
          Quote: captain

          In the case of the capture of Mariupol, Ukraine would have crumbled.

          It is doubtful. And after the visit of Burkhalter and the conclusion of the Geneva Agreements, the Russian Federation faced one task - to retain Crimea, having received some vowels or unspoken guarantees from the West. Neither Novorossia, nor Kiev, the Kremlin were interested. In general, the Donbass was at the fifth point of our Rajs a hefty splinter that it is impossible to pull out without serious reputation losses (among the population, the West has a reputation for kremlins on the drum). So sick. Donetsk residents in the literal sense, oligarchy in the figurative. Recall the chronology - it was still April.
  14. Leonid Dymov
    Leonid Dymov 5 December 2017 13: 51 New
    +2
    Putin is the most successful politician in the world. This is not Gorbachev, Yeltsin or Medvedev. He has information, analysts, the General Staff, Shoigu at his disposal. I am convinced that everything will be done as it should. Putin has cleared distant Syria, all the more to restore order in Ukraine. The presidential election is coming soon, and a small victorious war is needed, at least with the capture of Mariupol.
    1. Romey
      Romey 5 December 2017 14: 31 New
      11
      Putin razed distant Syria

      Ruined Syria? For at least 10-15 years, there can be no prospects for a peaceful settlement here simply theoretically. (see Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan). Until the Sunnis agree with the Alawites or simply do not divide the former Syria into parts. In any case, Gazprom in the near future does not shine for sure.
      This is not Gorbachev, Yeltsin or Medvedev.

      As for the first two, he will show the final result of his reign. It is very likely that he will not sit until the end of his last term. And the third one could not be mentioned, for GDP = DAM and exactly the opposite.
      He has information, analysts, the General Staff, Shoigu at his disposal.

      Nicholas 2 also had information, analysts, special services, the General Staff ... And in what place did it all turn out in March 1917? But GDP is following the same path with a clear militant step ... Well, yes, Shoigu. It is believed that the military and strategic talents of Sergei Kozhugetovich are somewhat exaggerated. After Taburetkin, any block of wood in uniform would have gone for the reincarnation of Suvorov. In addition, I heard from the Ministry of Emergency Situations that S.K. Shoigu is a great master of window dressing, which explains his reputation and longevity in ministers. It really needs to be able to.
      Moreover, it will restore order in Ukraine.

      Alas, with spells about the non-alternative of Minsk and campaigning around the Norman six, this is simply impossible even in theory ... Rather, Ukraine will restore Bandera’s order in Moscow than the GDP in Kiev. In any case, banderlogs look much more consistent in their Russophobia and clearness.
      The presidential election is coming soon, and a small victorious war is needed

      A. What is Syria missing ?! On TV, such fanfare that the capture of Berlin in 1945 against the backdrop of the Syrian overpower was just a modest success. Moreover, they “won” and “completed all the tasks” three times already. And nothing has changed.
      Putin is the most successful politician in the world.

      wink
    2. vasya.pupkin
      vasya.pupkin 5 December 2017 16: 35 New
      +3
      Dreams, dreams, Lenya, but so far V.V.P. will not hold his World Cup, nothing will change, we must wait another six months.
      A sure sign of something serious will be the removal from the fate of Donbass of his "watchman", the Chechen Jew A.A. Dudaev / drove V.Yu. Surkov /. Let's be patient brothers.
    3. Vadim Korovin
      Vadim Korovin 6 December 2017 11: 08 New
      0
      Nonsense FULL!
    4. Normal ok
      Normal ok 7 December 2017 00: 59 New
      0
      Quote: Leonid Dymov
      Putin is the most successful politician in the world. This is not Gorbachev, Yeltsin or Medvedev. He has information, analysts, the General Staff, Shoigu at his disposal. I am convinced that everything will be done as it should. Putin has cleared distant Syria, all the more to restore order in Ukraine. The presidential election is coming soon, and a small victorious war is needed, at least with the capture of Mariupol.

      Witness Putin. Oh well.
  15. Per se.
    Per se. 5 December 2017 14: 10 New
    +7
    Very near the article "Belarus: cut off a slice of Russia," in which there are such lines "If 200 years ago the Russian Empire waited for the fruit to ripen to fall into its hands, today Belarus, instead of being an ally of Moscow, would be the Catholic and Russophobic provinces of Poland. It was her first who decided to turn the European integrators into “not Russia”, but did not grow together."... What is Russia waiting for now, and, most importantly, what it wants, if, of course, our present authorities do not care? If we say that"Trains run around Ukraine. Aircraft fly around Ukraine. Steamers sailing around Ukraine. Gas and oil will soon go around Ukraine "so it is necessary to understand this:
    The main event of January 2017 was the closure of the scandalous Lipetsk confectionery factory "Roshen", but not everything is so simple. In the village of Kosyrevka, practically next to the newly built Roshen workshop, there is another confectionary factory.
    At the same time, few people know, but Poroshenko in Russia and the Crimea works around 46 companies.
    Maybe it’s primarily in the oligarchs, in those who do business on both sides of the border, capitalism, it’s in Russia and in / in Ukraine capitalism ... When the interests of the country are higher than individual money bags, it can be with Ukraine everything will be quickly resolved, and the national interests of the country are not necessarily here only decided by military force.
  16. BMP-2
    BMP-2 5 December 2017 16: 11 New
    +3
    To be offended by the truth is to deny yourself an objective perception of reality! wink
    1. Grandfather Eugene
      Grandfather Eugene 5 December 2017 19: 58 New
      0
      But all truth is also a cross between someone else's will.
      1. BMP-2
        BMP-2 5 December 2017 20: 48 New
        +2
        I absolutely agree! yes By the way, just for the second day in a row I explain this in the comments. laughing Repeat not in the rules of the site, but if interested - an opinion with illustrations is set out here:

        https://topwar.ru/130659-partiynoe-rukovodstvo-ev
        akuirovannym-naseleniem-v-gody-velikoy-otechestve
        nnoy-voyny-izuchaya-kandidatskuyu-dissertaciyu-za
        klyuchenie.html # comment-id-7629067

        and here:

        https://topwar.ru/130659-partiynoe-rukovodstvo-ev
        akuirovannym-naseleniem-v-gody-velikoy-otechestve
        nnoy-voyny-izuchaya-kandidatskuyu-dissertaciyu-za
        klyuchenie.html # comment-id-7633545

        hi
  17. Fonmeg
    Fonmeg 5 December 2017 19: 48 New
    0
    Well, her! Depart in the trenches, may surrender themselves!
  18. Grandfather Eugene
    Grandfather Eugene 5 December 2017 19: 56 New
    0
    Not provocateurs and not patriots, the blood is hot, itchy hands know that the war is coming, they are trying to get ahead in advance, but too early. Short-sighted eccentrics.
  19. Sergey Cojocari
    Sergey Cojocari 5 December 2017 20: 02 New
    10
    It’s strange. The West, not bothering with any principles of democracy, arms, trains, heals, helps with technical means, any militarized groups that help it in protecting its economic security. Russia, breaks down like a virgin, - "oh they don’t understand us correctly. Ah they will consider us aggressors, ah, ah ah." Have you taken the Crimea? Have taken! West have a drink ... and stalled. So it is with Ukraine. They would help the Donbass and get another friendly state on the western border. This should have been done three years ago. when volunteers crowded there in droves. Today, late ... Whatever is left of Ukraine, it will be an eternal enemy, like Poland.
    1. Grandfather Eugene
      Grandfather Eugene 6 December 2017 12: 44 New
      0
      There are no eternal enemies and friends. The problem of love and hate, in my opinion, is solved by the so-called propaganda of 3 generations. Three generations of information processing for deeper penetration and even distribution into the consciousness of the nation make the subsequent ones with a definite inertial vector of thinking those who they will eventually have to become, any ideologies affecting no more than ~ critical% of foundations.
      1. Sergey Cojocari
        Sergey Cojocari 6 December 2017 15: 57 New
        0
        Come on. The Poles will remember Katyn a thousand years later, and the Ukrainians will remember Uman, the "famine" as much as Kiev autocephaly will exist.
  20. Vitaly
    Vitaly 5 December 2017 20: 03 New
    0
    Quote: samarin1969
    "... without blowing" North Wind "to live the corps of the day three or four" ....- close to the truth.
    What are the respected authors hoping for? ...
    "Trains go around Ukraine. Planes fly around Ukraine. Steamboats sail around Ukraine. Gas and oil will also go around Ukraine soon. But what goes to Ukraine? No matter how sad this sounds, what the country exported 5-6 years ago. thus, the only lever that remains in the hands of Kiev is the Russian people, Russian culture, the Donbass. Repression in these areas gives at least some trump cards in negotiations with Russia. "
    This will not stop Ukraine. Donbass - will fall earlier. And for repressions against Russians, people of the West only applaud. ...
    Without a political decision of the Russian Federation in the Donbass, there is no future for LDNR or Russia itself. Instead of Russia there will be a territory without history, without an idea, a certain "electorate" and "labor resources" .... But for a long time it makes no sense to go to Kiev - strangers already live there.

    And who is going to go to "strangers"? There will be no more!
  21. andrew42
    andrew42 5 December 2017 20: 11 New
    +1
    The best fight is the one that was not. Well, it is clear that besides disintegration processes within Ukraine, there is really nothing to bet on besides this. And by the way, this rate is quite reasonable. What "corps campaign" can be to hell when 70% of Ukrainians are stuffed with anti-Russian propaganda according to the tonsils? And 30% -40% specifically the Nazi "faith" is shared without a doubt! There was no chance to turn the tide in 2014, in a "sovereign" country. There is no such thing now. This is serious and for a long time. In fact, until the States wobble economically (hope is generally ephemeral) or the religious war engulfs Geyrop (this is already a little more likely), an anti-Russian "spear" will be forged from Ukraine, similar to Poland of the 16th century. Until partisanism in the eastern regions begins, jerking from Donbass "to Kiev" is a mediocre one, and for Donbass it is also a suicidal undertaking. And no "Russian peacekeepers" Donbass will be fenced off from the Armed Forces. Provocations against peacekeepers will be 100%, and this "tomorrow was a war."
  22. Mikhail Anokhin
    Mikhail Anokhin 5 December 2017 20: 23 New
    +4
    All prosrali in 2014 when it was still possible to get to Odessa at least!
    Now for sure - it will not work. Now there is only one hope for a coup in Kiev. But not the fact that adekvat will come!
    1. A_L_F
      A_L_F 5 December 2017 22: 28 New
      +1
      Do you want the plot of Yugoslavia to be repeated?
  23. Uralean
    Uralean 5 December 2017 20: 47 New
    +5
    Some kind of article FOGY ... They let the fog in, with intimidation of the Russians, mainly, because the Donetsk residents consider the described situations, with everything else .. Well, firstly, in the DLNR, they are not fools either, and the Republican armies are also controlled not by people from the street, but by soldiers and commanders who have passed not only training, but have invaluable combat experience. The experience of standing up against the heavily armed army of Ukraine against the Dovorites with practically small arms .. Experience in creating crumbling battle groups, detachments, combat coordination. The experience of developing tactics and strategies to find weaknesses in the Armed Forces of the Armed Forces, and nat bats (who also do not get along with each other, and often fight with each other), thereby causing damage .. The author probably forgot, recalling Strelkova and Slavyansk, Kramotorsk, that Strelkova had only volunteers, and (not a significant amount), the locals were civilians .. That he had from heavy equipment there was one faulty NONA, and One Good, which was dragged back and forth, so as not to lose .. And what about the APU? The Armed Forces of Ukraine had Three brigades, and an Art regiment, which from Mount Karachun covered the entire block of volunteer posts .. How could volunteers hold back the army? Physically not. But they were able to hold back the brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the National Battalions for a month from the end of May, until mid-July 2014, so that companies would be gathered and equipped in a hurry in the rear, then battalions and the Ghost, and others .. It would be necessary to know .. The cape-hacking of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, cost them sideways, feeling their strength, they rushed to the offensive near Khartsyzk, Snezhnoye, and it seemed that all of New Russia (then there was not, nor the LPR and the DPR) would be wiped off the face of the earth .. But unexpectedly, battalions of volunteers, Cossacks gave such a rebuff to the Armed Forces that they suffered huge losses, fleeing to escape companies and battalions where? To Russia.. Across the Russian border .. What did Russia do? she cured the wounded, fed, put in order and agreed with the Cossacks and volunteers that they would let these woes warriors in Ukraine .. (Did you have to do this?). And it was not just once or twice .. Have you forgotten the battles at Saur Grave? When the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the National Battalions erased a handful of defenders of the Donbass from the face of the earth with all their might and art .. And what happened? The fighters of Saur Graves survived, and waited for the help of their fighters, although they suffered terrible losses. And how did the APU and the National Battalions of Semenchenko escape from five small and large boilers, the author DOESN’t remember? And the offensive in the south of the republics near Mariupol, when Mariupol was surrounded and cut off from Ukraine, and the volunteer soldiers stood on the outskirts of the city? (And only a pointer from Moscow did not allow to marry and take Mariupol, whose inhabitants were waiting for their fighters). In short, bury the army, Lao PDR, early .. Especially now, when an army of about 30-35 thousand soldiers and officers was created from separate detachments, separate battalions of scattered subdivisions, it was strengthened by equipment, gained experience in battles, defeats and victories .. such a battle for Donetsk, Airport, Spartak, Dokuchaevsk cannot be won just like that., you need the will to desire and desire to win, when even the convicts from the bombed prison went voluntarily to fight against the APU .. Now, the second - the Author WHY then decided that the LDNR armies want to go free KIEV? What business is it with? Does the author really think that the command of the Lao PDR forces does not know that they are facing something like 100 plus or minus the thousandth army of the Armed Forces and National Battles, fortified by various advisers from different countries against their 40 thousand? They know very well .. Don't they know what artillery, tanks. MLRS at the APU at times more? They know .. Therefore, the Lao PDR had no plans to go free Kiev. As Zakharchenko has stated more than once, the task of the DPR army is to liberate their land, the former Lugansk and Donetsk regions !!! And all. For this task, Donbass has the strength and capabilities, and plans for such a program are being executed .. What are these plans based on? Only on the fact that they will liberate their lands, taking their people under their protection .. The fact that the discipline and non-courtliness of the army of the Armed Forces is not up to the mark. The fact that the fighters of the Armed Forces of the Armed Forces of the Armed Forces for the most part do not want to fight and are tired of the three years of the war, and they know the power of retaliatory strikes by the LPR ... And what about Russia? Part of the claims can also be brought against Russia ..
  24. Maxim Maksimych Stirlitz
    Maxim Maksimych Stirlitz 5 December 2017 21: 05 New
    0
    Crush Bandera, definitely
  25. Mikhail Zubkov
    Mikhail Zubkov 5 December 2017 21: 26 New
    +2
    Fatigue from war is a powerful factor. Donbass has been at war with Nazism from March-April 2014, when armored vehicles, special forces of the border troops, paratroopers, internal troops, and even aviation, air defense and tactical missiles, went from Kiev to Lugansk, Donetsk and Mariupol. Together with foreign "instructors" and US and NATO special forces. They expected to spend a month or two on the reprisal against the “Russian” Donbass, followed by the “international” trial of the “terrorists”. Thousands of concentration camps and courtless massacres were planned. The Donbass militia was a gang of guys who barely knew how to shoot from old machine guns and machine guns, almost accidentally obtained in battles. But strong in spirit, and therefore won in a series of retreats, often unsuccessful, and in several successful counterattacks after August-September 2014. More than 4 years have passed since then. The situation has changed dramatically. In the Donbass there is an army, there are manned and armed corps, there is a young statehood, there are the beginnings of our economy and socio-political life. There is even a certain international legal personality. The enemy has become more cunning and organized twice, but the Donbass has become ten times stronger during this time. But tired of the 4 year war. It is time for Russia to help him with RECOGNITION. The time has come!
    1. smith7
      smith7 5 December 2017 22: 40 New
      +1
      Your lips ... Something is alarming for LDNR. The leaders there somehow behave ambiguously, different rumors circulate. Our media is dosing the truth to us and we in Russia will not recognize it. Alarming You need to either wait for the denouement or "w ... pu in a handful" and to the front line. And so ... wagging his tongue .... NOT productive.
  26. Nemesis
    Nemesis 5 December 2017 22: 55 New
    +1
    Traitors stand behind the Minsk agreements, which allowed Kiev to modernize and train the army ...
  27. kush62
    kush62 6 December 2017 00: 56 New
    0
    It’s even a shame that there are so many great strategists on the site, and not in the Kremlin. But I hope Putin and his team read articles and discussions on our site every day and take the right measures. (sarcasm)
  28. Santor
    Santor 6 December 2017 01: 04 New
    +1
    I agree. The authors also softened the real situation. The inhabitants of Donbass are not eager to fight, they did not burn them from the very beginning. even if they want to be offended, but the bulk are inert. Remind about 400 000 miners who never got out? "And we need to feed our families, we don’t care what power is at the top"
    1. Sergey Cojocari
      Sergey Cojocari 6 December 2017 11: 54 New
      0
      Since when has the opinion of the "masses" influenced decision-making? Moreover, with her universal opinion, “we don’t care what kind of power is at the top.
  29. Santor
    Santor 6 December 2017 01: 07 New
    0
    Quote: Nemesis
    Traitors stand behind the Minsk agreements, which allowed Kiev to modernize and train the army ...

    Do you have any options? Continue with what? there are now at least no boom battles. So initially, Russia was supposed to start a war, for this it all began. Ukraine is just a carrot.

    Traitors? Who were you betrayed? I always ask the guardians - and you ask yourself - which unit, which commander, what forces should have taken Mariupol and he was not given. And so much has been done with ichtamnets. What, had to go to Kiev? Saved from the destruction of the republic and enough.
    1. Romey
      Romey 6 December 2017 09: 04 New
      +2
      Russia had to start a war, for this it all began.

      Actually, after the Crimea was overcome, the war began de facto, and if you haven’t noticed yet, then the partners want not only the Donbass, but also the Crimea, which they consistently remind the Kremlin. And since if there is a war, then it is necessary to fight by all means and means until the victorious end. And with us, what ?! The Kremlin’s are ready for everything that the West will order, the main thing is that they don’t notice this inside the country. And this only explains the existence of LDNR as a subject of bargaining, since partners are not going to agree with the GDP at all to its complete and most humiliating surrender.
      Traitors? Who were you betrayed? I always ask the guardians - and you ask yourself - which unit, which commander, what forces should have taken Mariupol and he was not given.

      Who were you betrayed? The Russian people of New Russia, trusting in the words of a certain person called official propaganda the most successful politician of our time. You have a short memory, people ...
  30. Puma
    Puma 6 December 2017 02: 02 New
    +4
    But does someone “screaming” about the “campaign against Kiev” mean republican armies? Such "clever thoughts" were voiced only by the most stubborn hppshniks between two Minsk. Another thing is interesting - where is Russia going to get away from the need to solve the Ukrainian question? Or wait until this "prepared army" trample on Belgorod? "Non-alternative Minsk" sooner or later will lead precisely to this.
    1. Romey
      Romey 6 December 2017 09: 14 New
      0
      Or wait until this "prepared army" trample on Belgorod? "Non-alternative Minsk" sooner or later will lead precisely to this.

      They do not believe in such an opportunity. It is believed that it will resolve itself: then the third Maidan will happen, then Trump will come and give Ukraine. Here to take the APU: after all, there were several materials refuting their low combat readiness and inability to fight. But no, there are still a lot of people who sincerely believe that the APU is nothing more than a drunken rabble. And some optimists generally say with a blue eye that one Russian is capable of defeating 15 NATO degenerates without straining. What are such moods leading to?
  31. Kovpak KVV
    Kovpak KVV 6 December 2017 12: 15 New
    0
    The statements of Kiev that they only need land, and not people, are motivated by the Republicans powerfully. The earth will burn under the feet of * liberators *. And the latest events in Kiev do not add peace within Ukraine ...
  32. Sloboda0
    Sloboda0 6 December 2017 15: 30 New
    +2
    Try to ask yourself one question in all directions: "What would a theoretical geo-opponent do in this situation?" And marvel at the understanding of how smooth and clear everything is.
    Donbass? Since the situation has developed as it is, I would use it in the place of the theorist opponent to achieve the level of maximum disappointment. A mess, crisis, poverty, constant ambiguous movements from supposedly friends and neighbors, gasp on the benches - “well, we used to live somehow”, a complete lack of prospects (the office writes, they’ll even come to the tail in the Russian Federation if they want, but if they give work, then at that level it was possible to live and work in the old formation of Ukraine).
    In fact, all these goals have been achieved. The average resident of Donbass feels abandoned. A man who became a bargaining chip in some obscure geopolitical bidding for the clan of GDP and the West. At the same time, everyone has one question in their head: well, there you are bargaining for something, scold, amuse yourself ... well, what do I have to do with it?
    Donbass has long been reintegrated. Again, look from the point of view of the enemy. In this form - better. It is like for the Russian Federation - both the example and the propaganda influence are very ambiguous. But this influence is very specific for a whole bunch of small countries in eastern Europe. Firsthand example.
    So it all goes in understandable rails. He follows the plan of the one who has this same plan. And, of course, it does not go according to the plan of those who did not prepare a plan. Everything is logical.
  33. Konkovo
    Konkovo 7 December 2017 20: 32 New
    0
    I remember the army ... exiled comrades! 1989-91
  34. SklochPensioner
    SklochPensioner 8 December 2017 08: 03 New
    0
    In the article anxiety: We harness or not? !!
    HZ, but let's go fast!)))