Military Review

The expert considers it necessary to resume the project "Barguzin"

173
The decision to suspend work on the creation of the Barguzin railroad missile complex (BZHRK) may be related to the optimization of the defense expenditures of the Russian Federation, but it may be revised due to the exceptional importance of this project to maintain the strategic balance of power with the United States, reports RIA News statement of the chief editor of the magazine "National Defense" Igor Korotchenko.


The expert considers it necessary to resume the project "Barguzin"


Earlier, the media, citing a source in the Russian defense industry, reported on the suspension of work on the creation of a railway complex.

This decision, obviously, is associated with the optimization of financial costs aimed at financing the army and fleet Russia in the face of the upcoming reduction of the state arms program. However, I would like to expect that, taking into account the current military-political situation in the world and the growing risks for our country, the BZHRK project was nevertheless launched, and the current decision was temporary and ultimately revised,
said the agency Korotchenko.

According to him, Barguzin is extremely important in the light of the development of the American concept of an instant global strike and the creation of a global US missile defense system. The expert also noted that the “missile for BZhRK was largely unified with the programs of solid-fuel rocket complexes that are currently being implemented by the Moscow Thermal Engineering Institute (MIT) as part of the RS-24 Yars, PC-26 Rubezh and SLBM Bulava programs, which significantly reduces the cost of creating "Barguzin" ".

I would still like to expect that this decision can be adjusted in 2018 year, including in the framework of the next cycle of meetings that the President holds with the leadership of the Defense Ministry and the leading defense companies. It was also necessary to fully take into account the opinion on this issue of MIT General Designer Yuri Solomonov, including in the framework of his separate report on this issue to President Vladimir Putin,
added Korotchenko.

As reported by the media, in 2016, the railway complex successfully passed the first test stage - throwing tests, during which it was checked, in particular, whether the missile preparation algorithms for launch were developed correctly, how it leaves the launcher and how the launch equipment works.

It was also reported that flight tests of the rocket were to take place in 2019 year. And this year, according to the commander of the Strategic Missile Forces Sergey Karakayev, the president of the Russian Federation was to receive a report on the prospects for the deployment of the BZhRK.
Photos used:
RIA Novosti / Russian Railways
173 comments
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  1. 1331M
    1331M 3 December 2017 15: 14 New
    38
    You can not do an aircraft carrier, but this is blood from the nose !!!!!!!
    1. 210ox
      210ox 3 December 2017 15: 17 New
      13
      The aircraft carrier does not do so except the layout. But nothing is clear yet. One says one thing, the other expert is different ..
      Quote: 1331M
      You can not do an aircraft carrier, but this is blood from the nose !!!!!!!
      1. Thrall
        Thrall 3 December 2017 15: 22 New
        11
        Confuse the adversary, however ...
        1. Monos
          Monos 3 December 2017 16: 09 New
          17
          It seems to me that such a decision on Barguzin is associated with certain successes in the field of hypersound. If a hypersonic weapon is already on the way, then it is more reasonable to throw all the resources for the speediest development of it. BZHRK, in this case, become not very relevant.
          1. Sergey39
            Sergey39 3 December 2017 16: 24 New
            14
            There are two options. Either simply ,, barguzin "was taken away into the shade, or some kind of stone appeared in the bosom, such as," zircons "or something else we don’t know. Something that has recently begun to be kept secret, which is probably right.
            1. kapitan92
              kapitan92 3 December 2017 18: 55 New
              21
              Quote: Sergey39
              There are two options. Either simply ,, barguzin "was taken away into the shade, or some kind of stone appeared in the bosom, such as," zircons "or something else we don’t know. Something that has recently begun to be kept secret, which is probably right.

              There is a third option: - banal lack of funds. Artama "in mind," Kurganets "turned out to be not the same system as in the film." Barguzin "fell under the optimization of expenses of the Moscow Region.
              There is a complete failure of the economic policy of the liberal cabinet of the Dimon, and perhaps of an open betrayal of the interests of the country. Something like that!!!
              And where does the president look? And the president looks at March 2018 and ...... then we will live happily and happily! wassat
            2. freejack
              freejack 3 December 2017 19: 21 New
              +5
              or there was some kind of stone in the bosom

              Last time on this topic, an article was someone spoke in detail about the "Scythians" bottom-based.
              The general meaning, which is many times cheaper and more efficient. I figured my amateurish mind ... Yes !. BZHRK is much more complicated and expensive.
          2. Cheshire
            Cheshire 3 December 2017 18: 46 New
            +3
            In the light of what you have said, I hope that this is due to the replacement of the rocket with the land analogue of Zircon. But in this case, too, BZHRK is still relevant. hi
          3. drunkram
            drunkram 3 December 2017 19: 10 New
            +5
            Personally, I do not consider the Barguzin complex to be generally promising and necessary in principle for a country such as Russia, the idea itself is more suitable for placing on the railway platform, say Iskander or Bastion, and even the same air defense systems with further disguise them as manufactured goods vans, then build the infrastructure for them by the forces of the railway forces in the places most important for the country's defense - that would be very useful, and a heavy ballistic missile in a few pieces maximum would not even bring as much benefit as the same PGRK, and judging by everything the comrades from the leadership perfectly understand the hopelessness of the complex, hit on the railway tracks and there is no mobility of the railway railway. In principle, it is possible to restore those two remaining railways Molodets that are in museums and put into service and that’s all. Russia now needs to focus on 4 things in rocket technology: Zircon, S-500, Sarmat and ASG PRO, there is still not enough refueling for a full soup, there is no printing press, for that is, engineers and Russian ingenuity.
            Video for nostalgia
            1. PN
              PN 3 December 2017 20: 39 New
              +2
              Here I am talking about too.
            2. AID.S
              AID.S 3 December 2017 23: 45 New
              +1
              Quote: drunkram
              hit on the railway tracks and there is no mobility of the railway railway.

              And who will need it, this mobility, after an impact? Ride to recharge?
            3. nikolaev
              nikolaev 4 December 2017 02: 49 New
              +3
              the fact that mobile complexes are necessary is indisputable. But what is better, more reliable, more secretive - automobile complexes or railway. Automobiles are visible from space and are easily identifiable. To identify and defeat railways complexes require funds thousands of times more. The stationary ones are known to the enemy. Land-based strategic weapons have the most effective component in railways. option. And, since this is a strategic advantage, the conclusion is obvious.
              1. nikolaev
                nikolaev 4 December 2017 02: 52 New
                +1
                therefore, the theme of the cessation of work on the railway complex could arise only as a result of the work of enemies
          4. Warrior with machine gun
            Warrior with machine gun 4 December 2017 18: 35 New
            +2
            but on the other hand, as always, at first they all gouged, and then heroically restored everything
      2. 1331M
        1331M 3 December 2017 15: 30 New
        +5
        There’s nothing to talk about, Dim-
        This ....... Well .... How to say something .... I, a peasant, and then I understand with my own mind that-NECESSARY,pancake.... hi
    2. Primoos
      Primoos 3 December 2017 15: 23 New
      +4
      It will go like a little one. Of course, every liberal bastard in the government is trying to spoil, wherever possible. But the sane people are still concerned about the defense of the country, which has so many grinning "friends" around the perimeter. Otherwise, do not survive! By the way, liberalists will die too and may be the first. Let them not hope to sit out.
      1. andrej-shironov
        andrej-shironov 3 December 2017 15: 37 New
        +3
        A bastard in the government?
        1. Primoos
          Primoos 3 December 2017 15: 51 New
          11
          Quote: andrej-shironov
          A bastard in the government?

          Yeah, straight tama. Ulyulyukins, Selyulyukins, Shuvaliukins, Dvornyazhkins, Curly-headed and other Aifonchiki. The list is very long. They have no number.
          1. andrej-shironov
            andrej-shironov 3 December 2017 15: 53 New
            +3
            wink And I thought that the whole government and not only.
            1. Primoos
              Primoos 3 December 2017 16: 02 New
              +3
              Quote: andrej-shironov
              wink And I thought that the whole government and not only.

              No, not all. The power block in the government is not one of them. Otherwise, humanitarian bombs in ahrenitelny quantities would have already rained down on our heads.
              1. Stirbjorn
                Stirbjorn 3 December 2017 16: 09 New
                +1
                Quote: Primoos
                No, not all. The power block in the government is not one of them. Otherwise, humanitarian bombs in ahrenitelny quantities would have already rained down on our heads.

                so the power block is responsible for the Barguzins, he also finances
                1. Primoos
                  Primoos 3 December 2017 16: 12 New
                  +2
                  In order to finance, finance must be obtained. And who is our finance genius? I’m not going to.
                  1. Stirbjorn
                    Stirbjorn 3 December 2017 16: 13 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Primoos
                    In order to finance, finance must be obtained. And who is our finance genius? I’m not going to.

                    so they allocate finances to the entire department, and not to specific projects
                    1. Primoos
                      Primoos 3 December 2017 21: 16 New
                      0
                      Quote: Stirbjorn
                      Quote: Primoos
                      In order to finance, finance must be obtained. And who is our finance genius? I’m not going to.

                      so they allocate finances to the entire department, and not to specific projects

                      If you allocated three rubles, you won’t get a top ten. Have you heard about the Trishkin caftan?
                  2. Evgeniy667b
                    Evgeniy667b 3 December 2017 18: 19 New
                    +2
                    There are finances in Russia, they just are not in the right hands. It is not clear what the GDP thinks.
              2. andrej-shironov
                andrej-shironov 3 December 2017 17: 08 New
                +1
                smile Interesting selectivity! I just thought that our king is good and the boyars are bad, but there’s also a mess in the government.
          2. AID.S
            AID.S 3 December 2017 23: 50 New
            +2
            Quote: Primoos
            Ulyulyukins

            Ulyulyukin, along the way, will soon be acquitted, the main witness is hiding from the court.
            1. Primoos
              Primoos 4 December 2017 05: 16 New
              +1
              Along the way, I have the same opinion. Do not poke the Ulyulyukins with us. Unfortunately.
              1. AID.S
                AID.S 4 December 2017 08: 00 New
                +1
                Quote: Primoos
                Do not poke our Ulyulyukins

                From the verdict: “during the trial, it turned out that during the controlled transfer of the bribe, the witness mistakenly sat down at the table of the accused, his old friend, because he simply wanted to say hello and treat him with sausage. To declare the accused not guilty.”
        2. Kent0001
          Kent0001 3 December 2017 16: 24 New
          +2
          Probably also a goat.
        3. Topotun
          Topotun 3 December 2017 20: 43 New
          +2
          Alas, there are enough people who are sure that Russia will become better led by the Americans. (Kudrin for example). And very upset by the current rate of GDP. I don’t understand why they are still in the government? I hope that the GDP knows what it is doing.
          1. andrej-shironov
            andrej-shironov 3 December 2017 21: 11 New
            +4
            smile Dear Topotun! Are you truly convinced that GDP is not at one with them? What is your confidence based on?
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 3 December 2017 21: 18 New
              +3
              Everything is based on litter-tv yes
            2. MOSKVITYANIN
              MOSKVITYANIN 3 December 2017 21: 59 New
              +1
              Quote: andrej-shironov
              smile Dear Topotun! Are you truly convinced that GDP is not at one with them? What is your confidence based on?

              Are you firmly convinced that GDP is at the same time?
              What is your confidence based on?

              Everything is based on litter-tv
              1. andrej-shironov
                andrej-shironov 3 December 2017 22: 13 New
                +1
                smile Well, if it doesn’t drive you, then it means at the same time.
                1. Topotun
                  Topotun 4 December 2017 09: 59 New
                  +1
                  You can drive it up, but only if you have absolute power and the entire economy of your country is under your control. In our case, this is somewhat different. Do you propose starting nationalization in the country?
            3. Topotun
              Topotun 4 December 2017 09: 43 New
              +1
              Not confidence, but rather hope. Moreover, the strengthening of Russia's independence is still underway. As for GDP, everything here is not as simple as we would like. I am reporting that GDP is not an absolute dictator and cannot take and order the owners of "factories, newspapers, steamboats" to begin to carry out his orders or at least to begin to take into account the interests of the country. So you know, and before the second civilian a little play out. Therefore, I do not think that he is at the same time, rather, he is forced to balance between the interests of the country and the interests of financial groups.
              1. andrej-shironov
                andrej-shironov 4 December 2017 09: 52 New
                0
                Dear Topotun! So you think that the Guarantor cannot be held responsible for what is happening in the country because "politics is a reflection of opportunities"? And explain what “strengthening the independence of Russia” is expressed in.
                1. Topotun
                  Topotun 4 December 2017 09: 57 New
                  +1
                  And not only did the sun finally begin to resemble a normal army? That the military-industrial complex is poor, but getting out of what they are sitting on? What did not respond to the sanctions as Kudrin suggested with humility? And what do you think is happening in the country that should be horrifying? What exactly do you dislike?
                  1. andrej-shironov
                    andrej-shironov 4 December 2017 10: 14 New
                    +2
                    Answer the points:
                    1. The fact that the Armed Forces began to rearm is only the desire and understanding by the authorities of the fact that the world is very turbulent and their "stuck" friends can at any time by force take from them everything that has been gained through excessive labor. And all the other "nishtyaki" are only secondary. Sanctions by the way from the same category.
                    2. I don’t know about you, but I’m watching a picture very distant from at least something stable;
                    a) Industry is scanty and hence the lack of normal jobs, which leads to impoverishment of the people and, consequently, their inability to solve problems of health, education, places of residence, etc.
                    b) There is no need to talk about any Russian sovereignty from global capitalism, and the matter is not even in Kudrin, it is only a function. Money is withdrawn abroad, in Treasure. There is no nationwide idea, hence the fragmentation of the people.
                    I could still write a lot, but I don’t like footcloths.
                    As I understand it, dear Topotun, that you are somehow connected with the army or the military-industrial complex. And I am glad for you that they finally began to pay you decent money. It’s only that Russia does not consist of one army and the Russian Guard and the common people, of which 98%, just as Russia does not consist of one Moscow. Not sure, of course, that you will understand me, but still the attempt is not torture.
                  2. Varyag71
                    Varyag71 4 December 2017 14: 09 New
                    0
                    Yeah, the military-industrial complex ... many factories send people to the BS, or shorten working days.
                    Yes, in general, in the army, as there was idiocy, so it remained.
    3. PN
      PN 3 December 2017 15: 29 New
      +5
      Listen to you, duck straight seper-duper-mega-weapon some sort.
      1. newcomer
        newcomer 3 December 2017 15: 32 New
        +7
        it’s absolutely impossible to trace not from space, not from the earth, this is its exclusiveness. the rocket itself, like a standard rocket.
        1. PN
          PN 3 December 2017 15: 37 New
          13
          3 diesel locomotives for 10 cars. Do not you think that such a composition is far in the eye?
          1. newcomer
            newcomer 3 December 2017 15: 42 New
            +5
            you first determine the composition and, the matter is in the hat. the Yankees for some reason, still no methods. What are you thinking of?
            1. PN
              PN 3 December 2017 15: 52 New
              +3
              The composition is determined, a couple of days ago there was already an article about it.
              And my personal opinion, this is not what we need now. It is better to direct money to the development and implementation of anti-satellite weapons. In the modern global war, the destruction of satellites is primarily planned. Here at the same striped all modern weapons are tied to satellites. Do we have anything to fight against these? it’s kind of like a little more than nothing.
              1. newcomer
                newcomer 3 December 2017 15: 58 New
                +3
                stop, as defined? We are armed with BZHRK? Am I so far behind life?
                1. PN
                  PN 3 December 2017 16: 05 New
                  +1
                  Presumably.
                  https://topwar.ru/76442-.html
                  There is a picture there.
                  1. newcomer
                    newcomer 3 December 2017 16: 31 New
                    +3
                    Well, yes. some differences in the chassis did not allow enemies to find the desired composition. you find in the internet about the hunt for our BZHRK zrushnokov. do not find it real, the hint fighters do not count, the railwaymen are extras.
            2. ZVO
              ZVO 3 December 2017 19: 35 New
              +3
              Quote: newbie
              you first determine the composition and, the matter is in the hat. the Yankees for some reason, still no methods. What are you thinking of?


              The composition is determined by one or two ...
              namely "honey".
              Through sufficiently miniature and disguised seismic sensors, operating up to a distance of 100 meters from the canvas, with a life of more than 3 years. Not only the Special Train is determined, but also the speed and direction of movement.
              Every 300-500 kilometers there should be a special station or a “closed” section of a regular station in which special trains are serviced. What is easily fixed both from space by specific or RT reconnaissance apparatuses, and by hostile agents.
              The deployment of sensors along all potential railway lines is carried out by forces of hostile agents and special forces.

              All. what I wrote above was published 30 years ago ...

              And the enemy agents in our current conditions of total lack of money and the dominance of migrants are simply immeasurable ...
              1. newcomer
                newcomer 4 December 2017 11: 27 New
                +2
                the operation is straightforward on a grand scale! theory, theory, and again theory. for some reason practice is tempting, i.e. does not go at all.
                1. ZVO
                  ZVO 4 December 2017 13: 08 New
                  0
                  Quote: newbie
                  the operation is straightforward on a grand scale! theory, theory, and again theory. for some reason practice is tempting, i.e. does not go at all.


                  Not a single BZHRK will be deployed.
                  It will not.
                  For there is no way to protect him.
                  From the word in general.
                  It is from terrorist and partisan actions. Blasting the canvas, translation arrows, etc.
                  On the public railways of the Russian Railways, there is simply no escape from the BZHRK.
                  The survival rate of the complex is zero.
                  1. newcomer
                    newcomer 4 December 2017 22: 38 New
                    +2
                    not a single BJRK was detected. in order to carry out your considerations, you need to at least know where and along which paths the train passes. understand, it's like looking for a needle with a haystack.
                    1. ZVO
                      ZVO 5 December 2017 16: 24 New
                      0
                      Quote: newbie
                      not a single BJRK was detected. in order to carry out your considerations, you need to at least know where and along which paths the train passes. understand, it's like looking for a needle with a haystack.


                      Why do you think so. that he was not discovered?
                      Knowing the indirect characteristics of our view reconnaissance satellites and knowing the approximate characteristics of Amer’s analogues, I can say with 100% certainty:
                      Americans perfectly discovered BZHRK, by many individual parameters, corresponding exactly to BZHRK and nothing else.
                      Too many parameters are defined immediately.
                      These are non-standard cars, this is the number of locomotives.
                      These are military camps.
                      Just turn on the logic.
                      Firstly, military towns with a developed railway network, on which the BZHRK was based.
                      Secondly. From the military towns "dancing" and all the highways along which the BZHRK can walk.
                      From such highways all "special stations" for service are "dancing".
                      and on and on.
                      Or do you think that such a train "drives" where it wants and how it wants and how much it wants?
                      Do you not take into account the timetables of Russian Railways trains? Russian Railways will not give the Ministry of Independence on its patrimony ...
                      And what about the condition of the travel distances themselves?
                      Severe DBCs will not pass on all routes.

                      Read the local "weksha50" member
                      He served them. Read it for 2016, for 2017 - look for a search.
                      For every year the topic of the BZHRK is raised.
                      Maybe then a veil will fly off you ...
                      https://topwar.ru/index.php?do=lastcomments&u
                      serid = 154844
          2. Waterfowl
            Waterfowl 3 December 2017 17: 10 New
            +1
            plus a powerful radio station.
          3. Topotun
            Topotun 3 December 2017 20: 44 New
            +2
            In real combat duty, there may be more wagons. Empty of course.
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 3 December 2017 15: 43 New
          +5
          It will be easy to trace - from locations.
          1. newcomer
            newcomer 3 December 2017 15: 50 New
            +3
            Well, you know better, I guess. only now it’s still unknown whether there is any dislocation ?! they are in constant motion. not to confuse them with brothers on a wheeled chassis.
            1. Svarog51
              Svarog51 4 December 2017 04: 10 New
              +6
              Garik, welcome hi There are certainly permanent locations for these BZHRK, one of them was in the Kostroma region. The train was on combat duty for a certain time, then returned to the base for repair and inspection of equipment, replenishment of supplies and rest of personnel. At this time, another train intervened on duty. There were several bases as well as trains. If Barguzin is created and put into service, the infrastructure for their maintenance will also be re-created. Look at the previous article, where our colleagues talk about this in more detail.
              1. newcomer
                newcomer 4 December 2017 11: 39 New
                +2
                Greetings, Sergey. Yes you are right. only entry to the base and exit are clearly worked out. because our calendar of flights of satellites is better known. and wiring / dissolving after leaving the base in the general traffic of trains is akin to the game “thimble” _ art.
                1. Svarog51
                  Svarog51 4 December 2017 11: 52 New
                  +6
                  Well, since the "Well done" went on combat duty, then there is already groundwork for this matter. They want to make Barguzin in the mass-dimensional parameters of standard refrigerators. If everything works out as planned, then the stealth of movement will increase. Although reconnaissance from satellites is ongoing and is constantly being improved, but still I won’t believe that there is no way to avoid the all-seeing eye. And then, tracking a moving object is much more difficult than a stationary one.
          2. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 3 December 2017 15: 51 New
            +3
            Quote: Vadim237
            It will be easy to trace - from locations.

            and it’s even easier to defuse
        3. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 3 December 2017 15: 52 New
          16
          To deliver a bottle to railway workers. smile They will tell in detail both where and when
          and when next time. And it’s good if they tell the harmless
          an American spy, not an igilovites from the Caucasus or Central Asia.
          1. newcomer
            newcomer 3 December 2017 16: 01 New
            +5
            dreaming is not harmful; harming is not dreaming. yes voyaka uh?
          2. Observer2014
            Observer2014 3 December 2017 16: 21 New
            +6
            voyaka uh
            To deliver a bottle to railway workers. smile They will tell in detail where and when,
            and when next time.
            Are you completely wild in the sand there? Sometimes you need to leave a hot mini gas chamber for people. In particular, for the general development of Russia, visit. So as not to print such nonsense. You have not seen modern Russian Railways for too long. hi
          3. vovanpain
            vovanpain 3 December 2017 16: 28 New
            12
            Quote: voyaka uh
            To deliver a bottle to railway workers. They will tell in detail where and when and when the next time. And it’s good if they tell the harmless
            an American spy, not an igilovites from the Caucasus or Central Asia.

            Alexey Batkovich request In Soviet times, the CIA chased the BZHRK all over the trans-Siberian railway and watched from satellites and slipped all kinds of spyware into trains, and it is not known how many railways and vodka and alcohol cisterns were consumed for railway workers and ...... request It turned out to be easier to buy a hunchback, to drink Yeltsin and they themselves BZHRK, first put on a joke, and then generally put on needles. hi
            1. assa67
              assa67 3 December 2017 17: 15 New
              +6
              Quote: vovanpain
              BZHRK, first put on a joke, and then generally put on needles.

              didn’t they preserve a single one ???? there were rumors that the three complexes were hidden somewhere in the Urals ... if they cut something, it’s straight, trouble
              1. The comment was deleted.
        4. Evgeniy667b
          Evgeniy667b 3 December 2017 18: 26 New
          0
          Attach the beacon imperceptibly and all movements in full view. Or is this option impossible ???
          1. Svarog51
            Svarog51 4 December 2017 04: 21 New
            +6
            To do this, you must first find the train and get close to it. Well and one more thing, the train is regularly subjected to technical inspection just for identification of such beacons and other spy equipment. In addition, he has not only a radio station for communication, but also a lot of different tricky electronic systems. The hunt for such a train is shown in the series "Officers" with Makarov and Gorobchenko. Of course, this is fiction, but some truthful elements are present.
    4. Chertt
      Chertt 3 December 2017 15: 40 New
      +6
      Information about the collapse of the project BARZHK "Barguzin" was doubtful, then came a dubious refutation of dubious news ... I would not be surprised if the developers of "Barguzin" are not aware of all this fuss
      1. Silkway0026
        Silkway0026 4 December 2017 00: 55 New
        +2
        but it smells like an election ... Right now, everyone is lost, and then our great and mighty guarantor, all in white, comes out and declares full support for the project and scolds those who save on the country's defense.

        It would be better if, like the Saudis, I would gather all our oligarchs in one hotel or hostel, and well, beat out billions of them. Look arapcha, what a stupid thing, and already a hundred billion rolled back ....
    5. weksha50
      weksha50 3 December 2017 15: 47 New
      11
      Quote: 1331M
      You can not do an aircraft carrier, but this is blood from the nose !!!!!!!


      Can you justify your "Blood from the nose" ???
      Have you served on the BZHRK yourself, have experience in combat duty?
      Have you personally developed the technical characteristics, carried out the scientific and technical support of the BZHRK at the research institute?
      Did you personally work in the bodies of the VOSO, which provided interconnection-interaction with the MRS-RZD-RVSN ???

      I apologize for the harshness, but tired of such poster packs, exclamations ...

      PS If you knew how easy it is to “shorten the legs” of the BZHRK with the help of an experienced DRG and the presence of “informers” on the railway ... Like two fingers on the asphalt ... Believe me ...
      The security system of the BZHRK "SC-5", for which back in 1987 a lot of people received orders and medals, as it was, to put it mildly, crude, and remained until the dispersal-collapse of parts of the BZHRK ...
      1. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 3 December 2017 15: 55 New
        +5
        Quote: weksha50
        Can you justify your "Blood from the nose" ???
        Have you served on the BZHRK yourself, have experience in combat duty?
        Have you personally developed the technical characteristics, carried out the scientific and technical support of the BZHRK at the research institute?
        Did you personally work in the bodies of the VOSO, which provided interconnection-interaction with the MRS-RZD-RVSN ???

        All of this is unnecessary to understand that BZHRK nafig unnecessary ...
      2. Svarog51
        Svarog51 4 December 2017 04: 55 New
        +7
        George, welcome hi BZHRK "Well done", as I understand it, suffered a lot of weight. Therefore, he had significant differences from conventional refrigerated wagons. "Barguzin" is created on a new elemental base and in less weight. If they manage to keep within the standard parameters, then this will raise its disguise by an ordinary composition by an order of magnitude. Then he really will become a "ghost", which will be extremely difficult to track. And another plus in favor of the BZHRK is its range. He can cross all of Russia in a few days about being on the other side of the country. YaRsam and POPs cannot do this. Well, the protection of the BZHRK can be raised to the appropriate level based on previous experience. My opinion is that the Barguzins should take up combat duty. IMHO.
        1. weksha50
          weksha50 4 December 2017 12: 32 New
          +2
          Quote: Svarog51
          My opinion is that the Barguzins should take up combat duty.


          Greetings, Sergey!
          If you carefully read my comments, their essence does not boil down to the BZHRK's invisibility, its weight and security ... And also, not to the rocket-equipment-personnel ...
          I focus on the problems of combining the VOSO BZHRK service and the services of modern Russian Railways ... Many of the requirements do not just not coincide, but are absolutely diametrically opposed for their intended purpose ... Also, Problems of the work of train drivers in a combat shift and on the route, their access to routes. .. The problems of selecting precisely the drivers ... Well, they will not go today with a citizen ... The modern army is unlikely to be able to provide them with free housing right now, today - as they did in Soviet times ... The drivers who were assigned the rank of ensign received apartments even earlier than officers who stood in line for housing for more than one year ...
          And - money ... The formation of the BZHRK on the DB (combat duty) is huge money ... But we already consider the fire of war at the borders and at hand ... And it’s better to throw this huge money into tank production and airplanes (this is me - for example) than on the BZHRK, the trial operation of which and the establishment on the DB will take 5-7 years ... Yes, yes, do not count on 2-3 years ...
          Another question is that the military-industrial complex as a whole is ready for the production of Barguzin ... It is possible to renew the dissolved-disbanded faculty at the Leningrad VOSO school (railway troops), and also include the program in the training of cadets of command and engineering schools of the RS SN ... Then there is at least personnel for this complex when suddenly they start to produce it ... hi
          1. Svarog51
            Svarog51 4 December 2017 13: 03 New
            +5
            George, hi Thanks for the clarifications. I still hope that the work on the creation of “Barguzin” is only suspended. If now there is no need for them, then it is not a fact that it will not appear in the future. The fact that the preparation and implementation of the project will take time and money is understandable. Well, other weapon systems and their maintenance are not cheap. Everything flows, everything changes. Apartments for drivers and personnel of Barguzinov, I think not the most expensive article in the project. That's what interested me - why such a small autonomy? Service on a nuclear submarine is much more complicated, and yet autonomy is higher there. Why is that so?
    6. smart ass
      smart ass 3 December 2017 16: 16 New
      +1
      Avik is a relic of the past, our hypersound is everything
      1. Mussasi
        Mussasi 3 December 2017 17: 24 New
        +1
        Yes, it’s time to put the space cruiser into orbit around the Earth. And do not engage in nonsense of the last century hi
  2. Bronevick
    Bronevick 3 December 2017 15: 15 New
    +3
    It's not about financing. We just compromised in exchange for something.
    1. BMP-2
      BMP-2 3 December 2017 15: 28 New
      +7
      Something I don’t feel this “something”! (C) Although, maybe it’s good that I don’t feel it! laughing
      1. Jedi
        Jedi 3 December 2017 15: 48 New
        +7
        Volodya, let the tolerasts feel what they think. lol
        1. BMP-2
          BMP-2 3 December 2017 17: 53 New
          +3
          I agree. True, I get the impression that they have no feelings, only feelings! laughing
  3. newcomer
    newcomer 3 December 2017 15: 20 New
    +5
    refusal of “Barguzin“ can be put on a list of our exceptional mistakes. therefore, I believe, at the top, they will reflect on and put this project “on contentment” in state program 18/25.
    1. Jedi
      Jedi 3 December 2017 15: 34 New
      +5
      Garik, hi! hi I also do not understand the suspension of work on Barguzin, but I hope that we just don’t know something ...
      1. newcomer
        newcomer 3 December 2017 15: 39 New
        +3
        Hi hi. Listen to it like thunder over our Army. I really hope that newspaper people are simply not saying something. Yes, and I, maybe I missed something, but according to my information, “Barguzin“ was done in a “semi-initiative” order, i.e. MO knew, approved, but didn’t help much.
        1. Jedi
          Jedi 3 December 2017 15: 41 New
          +7
          I don’t know what's what, friend, but it seems to me that inside the MO there is something like a redistribution of the sphere of interests, God forbid that I make a mistake ...
          1. newcomer
            newcomer 3 December 2017 15: 47 New
            +5
            Max, but why is it worth inserting a toy roller into the official release of MO. we see the visible part of the iceberg_ liberalists in the government. and such ministries and departments as the Moscow Region, Ministry of Internal Affairs, and the FSB. I don’t think that ours managed to clean up all sinners from the end of the 80s to zero.
            1. Jedi
              Jedi 3 December 2017 15: 57 New
              +5
              I’m in no hurry myself, and I don’t advise you to succumb to pessimistic moods, Garik. Let's wait until ...
        2. Piramidon
          Piramidon 3 December 2017 15: 47 New
          0
          Quote: newbie
          I really hope that newspaper people are simply not saying something

          Do you think that the "newspaper men" are aware of all the most secret developments and are simply "not saying anything" to us? These "newspaper men" are exactly the same Internet users as you and I, and draw information from there.
          1. newcomer
            newcomer 3 December 2017 15: 56 New
            +3
            where do you get info from even in VO? don’t we discuss, yes dubious, information on the WG?
  4. razved
    razved 3 December 2017 15: 22 New
    +3
    I. Korotchenko, like other experts, can say anything. While there is no official statement on this issue, all expert opinions are just an empty air shake.
    1. visitork67
      visitork67 3 December 2017 15: 27 New
      0
      You can trust the official statements, but you can turn on the head. What the expert did.
      1. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 3 December 2017 15: 59 New
        +1
        And you can turn on your head again and think about why the military railway complexes disappeared in the world .... hi
    2. BMP-2
      BMP-2 3 December 2017 15: 29 New
      +5
      Expert presentations are primarily needed in order to be able to keep statistics of expert presentations. wink
    3. Machete
      Machete 3 December 2017 15: 36 New
      +4
      Quote: razved
      I. Korotchenko, like other experts, can say anything. While there is no official statement on this issue, all expert opinions are just an empty air shake.


      There are only two expert opinions: Putin’s and Shoigu’s.
      Everything else is dirt.
      1. BMP-2
        BMP-2 3 December 2017 17: 50 New
        +4
        Machete, you put me in an awkward position! It turns out that now we, as experts, need to decide which of us is Putin and which is Shoigu! wink
        1. Silkway0026
          Silkway0026 4 December 2017 00: 59 New
          +3
          sorry, colleagues ... and who are the EXPERTS here? Something seems, we are all just going to crack here.
          1. BMP-2
            BMP-2 4 December 2017 02: 36 New
            +2
            Seemingly obvious - rarely an objective reality. laughing One just has to dig a little deeper - and it turns out that every visitor to the site is somewhat an expert. The Chinese on this occasion say: "The streets are full of sages." And even if someone still does not realize this, then, as they say in Ukraine, in the approximate translation "means they tortured him badly" laughing
          2. Svarog51
            Svarog51 4 December 2017 05: 19 New
            +6
            Sergey, welcome hi
            sorry, colleagues ... and who are the EXPERTS here? Something seems, we are all just going to crack here.

            I do not agree with your opinion, if you carefully read all the comments and analyze, then calculate the necessary specialist on the topic of the article. I found such a specialist, and I can say with confidence that he served in the Molodets BZHRK. Here is his opinion of a much more informative article. Can you tell me who this is?
            1. Silkway0026
              Silkway0026 4 December 2017 21: 26 New
              +2
              I don’t know who it is. But if you tell me, I’ll gladly go deep. Rocketeer himself, very interesting.
              1. Svarog51
                Svarog51 5 December 2017 05: 21 New
                +5
                Carefully read the comments of George weksha50, they will tell you a lot. Pay attention to specific terms. I don’t know how long his non-disclosure subscription is designed for, but he can tell something. hi
                1. Silkway0026
                  Silkway0026 5 December 2017 06: 50 New
                  +2
                  Thanks, I'll take a look.
                  1. ZVO
                    ZVO 5 December 2017 16: 25 New
                    0
                    Quote: Silkway0026
                    Thanks, I'll take a look.


                    Read his posts for 2016 and earlier. He wrote a lot of real.
              2. Svarog51
                Svarog51 5 December 2017 05: 36 New
                +5
                Namesake hi
                Rocketeer himself

                Well then, for the Major General of the Missile Forces wink drinks drinks drinks
  5. askort154
    askort154 3 December 2017 15: 24 New
    +2
    Yesterday this topic was already discussed. yes
    1. Machete
      Machete 3 December 2017 15: 39 New
      +1
      Such topics can be long and rapturously discussed, cited dozens of "expert" opinions, guessed on the coffee grounds what will appear and when ....
      In short, fun for users of the site. fellow
  6. Machete
    Machete 3 December 2017 15: 34 New
    +2
    In their right mind nobody will cut such a project.
    This is much more important than any aircraft carriers and fantastic leaders.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 3 December 2017 15: 46 New
      +2
      This project no longer makes sense - for obvious reasons.
    2. Dead duck
      Dead duck 3 December 2017 16: 01 New
      +7
      Quote: Machete
      In their right mind nobody will cut such a project

      Why?! ... it depends on whose mind will be ...
      if some enemies of the people or liberals, then just the same in their right mind and will offer and do.
      1. Machete
        Machete 3 December 2017 16: 03 New
        +1
        Well, it seems, the liberals were all removed from power. Yes, and the current government behaves with the army humanly.
        1. Vintovkin
          Vintovkin 3 December 2017 16: 07 New
          +3
          Quote: Machete
          Well, it seems, the liberals were all removed from power

          And forgive me who is there now, someone I’m confused about - village, so who are they in power? Mozh communists? Al God forgive (word what) democrats?
  7. dim7ka
    dim7ka 3 December 2017 15: 35 New
    10
    Horror belay . And how are we without Barguzin. We have only 7 types of different ICBMs in service.
    Americans out there with one ancient M-3 live and do not worry
    1. Viktor.12.71
      Viktor.12.71 3 December 2017 21: 10 New
      +3
      Minuteman-3 I would not call ancient, in electronic filling it even surpasses everything that Russia has.
  8. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 3 December 2017 15: 36 New
    +1
    Bargaining began through media publications.
  9. Vadim237
    Vadim237 3 December 2017 15: 41 New
    +5
    It would be better if medical trains were created to provide the most difficult medical care in the most remote places in Russia.
    1. serge siberian
      serge siberian 3 December 2017 19: 18 New
      +2
      And you personally will pave the way to these remote places. And everything will be fine.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 3 December 2017 19: 32 New
        +2
        So in those places railway tracks have already been paved for the mining industry.
  10. Vita vko
    Vita vko 3 December 2017 15: 41 New
    +7
    You need to think carefully before you develop BZHRK. There is a significant difference in possible damage during the first enemy strike on large railway junctions, which are practically unprotected and remote parts of the silo-based strategic missile forces with powerful air defense and missile defense. The second important factor is the need to correctly assess the capabilities of modern space intelligence. If 20 years ago, the BZHRK could be invisible among a stream of similar echelons, now it can be problematic. The risks associated with terrorist, sabotage and espionage activities for the BZHRK are also significantly higher.
  11. weksha50
    weksha50 3 December 2017 15: 42 New
    +8
    "it can be revised due to the critical importance of this project to maintain a strategic balance of power with the United States, RIA Novosti reports a statement by the editor-in-chief of the National Defense magazine Igor Korotchenko"...

    Expert ... Igor Korotchenko ... an aviation technical engineer who served in repair shops for 2 years, and then ended up at the General Staff of the Air Force, and then at the General Staff of the USSR Armed Forces ... At 34, he was fired as a citizen by psycho -moral discrepancy (well, the wording is on the conscience of personnel officers and doctors) ...
    More ... Chief Editor of Nezavisimaya Gazeta ...
    I won’t continue anymore - whoever needs it, let him google on the Internet ...
    Expert ... Oh ... a huge expert in strategic offensive weapons ...
    Yesterday I expressed my opinion ... Yes, it’s a pity that the project was canceled ... But I repeat: now, it is NOW - we, Russia, are not up to it ... As before the construction of aircraft carriers ...
    I have the honor.
  12. prodi
    prodi 3 December 2017 15: 42 New
    +3
    but the BZHRK would not look bad in parallels, and similar river-sea barges along the meridians
  13. samarin1969
    samarin1969 3 December 2017 15: 44 New
    +1
    Probably the freezing of the project is somehow connected with the transfer of "the economy to the military track" .... wink We confuse the strategic fears of the “opponents”. As Rasteryaev sang there: ... "when we retreat, we go forward" ... wink
  14. Kent0001
    Kent0001 3 December 2017 15: 49 New
    +4
    And let's buy another traderys and the Fed will arrest them in February, that's how we optimize the funds! The couple somehow all this has recently been getting a bad smell ...... and silence.
  15. ASG7
    ASG7 3 December 2017 16: 00 New
    0
    I don’t understand what to discuss here. It’s just that so much money has already been “poured” into this complex that stopping it in the pre-trial period is a crime and will be imprisoned for it.
  16. Eurodav
    Eurodav 3 December 2017 16: 12 New
    +1
    Quote: 1331M
    You can not do an aircraft carrier, but this is blood from the nose !!!!!!!

    Yesterday I had to start ...
  17. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 3 December 2017 16: 12 New
    +3
    I don’t have money for Barguzins, nor for new submarine strategists, but the president is transferring the economy to war, in words, of course - laughter through tears, they live in the world up there
  18. Eurodav
    Eurodav 3 December 2017 16: 19 New
    +3
    Quote: weksha50
    "it can be revised due to the critical importance of this project to maintain a strategic balance of power with the United States, RIA Novosti reports a statement by the editor-in-chief of the National Defense magazine Igor Korotchenko"...

    Expert ... Igor Korotchenko ... an aviation technical engineer who served in repair shops for 2 years, and then ended up at the General Staff of the Air Force, and then at the General Staff of the USSR Armed Forces ... At 34, he was fired as a citizen by psycho -moral discrepancy (well, the wording is on the conscience of personnel officers and doctors) ...
    More ... Chief Editor of Nezavisimaya Gazeta ...
    I won’t continue anymore - whoever needs it, let him google on the Internet ...
    Expert ... Oh ... a huge expert in strategic offensive weapons ...
    Yesterday I expressed my opinion ... Yes, it’s a pity that the project was canceled ... But I repeat: now, it is NOW - we, Russia, are not up to it ... As before the construction of aircraft carriers ...
    I have the honor.

    Wikipedia is a terrible thing! You enlightened us, we will no longer listen to Korotchenko! Do not advise us to any expert?
    1. weksha50
      weksha50 3 December 2017 18: 49 New
      +3
      Quote: Evrodav
      Wikipedia is a terrible thing! You enlightened us, we will no longer listen to Korotchenko! Do not advise us to any expert?


      Hmm ... Do you think this joke is super smart and the only reasonable one?
      I - ANYONE - did NOT advise anything ...
      If you didn’t understand that the lieutenant ended up in the General Staff after two years of service in the military base, and at 34 he was transferred to the reserve, this means that you are not a regular soldier ... Or a political worker ...
      Well, and his further activities I DO NOT personally inspire confidence ... I repeat: ME ... PERSONALLY ... Where did you see that I urged someone not to believe the conclusions of Korotchenko and similar experts?
      Yes, believe it, for God's sake ... The crazy sects have bred - only have time to navigate ...
  19. Eurodav
    Eurodav 3 December 2017 16: 21 New
    +2
    Quote: Vita VKO
    You need to think carefully before you develop BZHRK. There is a significant difference in possible damage during the first enemy strike on large railway junctions, which are practically unprotected and remote parts of the silo-based strategic missile forces with powerful air defense and missile defense. The second important factor is the need to correctly assess the capabilities of modern space intelligence. If 20 years ago, the BZHRK could be invisible among a stream of similar echelons, now it can be problematic. The risks associated with terrorist, sabotage and espionage activities for the BZHRK are also significantly higher.

    You don’t worry so much, I assure you there people are no worse than you and I understand the problems you said ...
    1. Vita vko
      Vita vko 3 December 2017 16: 47 New
      +5
      Quote: Evrodav
      Am people no worse than us understand the problems you said

      Perhaps, but with some I studied at the Academy of East Kazakhstan region, so I do not feel reverence. Moreover, in science there are no authorities and cannot exist. If authorities exist, this is not a science, but a religion. The correct formulation of the problem is just science. Therefore, I would like to hear at least some sort of personal opinion. Any forum is something like a brainstorm, where in the midst of chaos there may be a rational kernel.
      1. TOR2
        TOR2 3 December 2017 22: 09 New
        +1
        I would not want to repeat so often. Just in the subject on BZHRK many copies were broken. Given modern realities, a whole class of weapons on a railway carrier is needed, first of all, to protect vital centers. Complexes with a classical scheme may not be enough to reflect a massive raid on an object. Here launchers with conveyor feed of launch containers will come in handy. To create a ground version of such an installation is problematic, but on a railway carrier it is easy. So we get specialized trains for the Moscow Region and see in reality how they feel in the vast Russian Railways.
        If there is a class of weapons, then everything is complicated for the enemy. Periodically, locomotives, cars, carts will be shuffled so that the CIA seismic sensors can be buried in their ranches. Even if the enemy lands on the Russian Railways server, the picture will be very blurry. A certain strain will be in orbit. Based on the experience gained, it will be possible to make a decision on the BZHRK.
  20. Eurodav
    Eurodav 3 December 2017 16: 23 New
    +1
    Quote: Vadim237
    This project no longer makes sense - for obvious reasons.

    By what? I don’t understand, I'm sorry ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 3 December 2017 19: 16 New
      +4
      The locations of these trains will be known, and the train will be opened - by the number of locomotives and a relatively small number of cars, the destruction of railway bridges and BZHRK will remain stationary, in modern conditions this complex has become just a more expensive analogue, silo-based ICBMs and PGRK - but with much less security. There are many diverse ICBMs in the Missile Forces and the creation of another complex does not make sense.
  21. Eurodav
    Eurodav 3 December 2017 16: 24 New
    +1
    Quote: ProkletyiPirat
    Quote: weksha50
    Can you justify your "Blood from the nose" ???
    Have you served on the BZHRK yourself, have experience in combat duty?
    Have you personally developed the technical characteristics, carried out the scientific and technical support of the BZHRK at the research institute?
    Did you personally work in the bodies of the VOSO, which provided interconnection-interaction with the MRS-RZD-RVSN ???

    All of this is unnecessary to understand that BZHRK nafig unnecessary ...

    Then his mattresses were afraid of fire ...
    1. weksha50
      weksha50 3 December 2017 18: 55 New
      +4
      Quote: Evrodav
      Then his mattresses were afraid of fire ...


      No need to juggle the facts and carry forward in time ... At that time - YES !!! The Americans were very afraid of him (the complex) ... However, at that time he was not so elusive ...
      TODAY this complex is a construction-uprising before the RF Armed Forces of a mass of problems and a loss of both time and financial, brain and other resources ...
      And now only the enemy villain, or the impenetrable dumbass, can be argued for the promotion of this project !!!

      Still forced ... But he said - from the heart! hi
    2. andr327
      andr327 3 December 2017 19: 12 New
      +3
      Expressing fear of the BZHRK, the Americans praise him, and if the enemy praises him, look at both, we are doing something wrong.
      There are no opportunities to scatter funds on a bunch of projects - we will not pull economically. Although the achievements still need to continue, work out the elements of the complex. Certain types of weapons are better here, but when we start talking about COMPLEX, there are a lot of problems. Let us first bring the Yars and Sarmatu complexes to mind.
  22. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 3 December 2017 16: 41 New
    +1
    Again, the "liberalists" put the wheels in the wheels of the defense industry, be it my will, I forced these bitches to build 30-40 BZHRK for my "hard earned"!
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 3 December 2017 17: 14 New
      +3
      Instead of the BZHRK, I would have built 40 medical compounds - they are cheaper, and there will be much more sense from them than from ICBMs in cars.
  23. apro
    apro 3 December 2017 17: 07 New
    +2
    From a military point of view, bzhrk is a very effective tool, better than plbrs and much cheaper. But will the top be shot on kama in case of chago? For strategic partners, for their homes, for banks, where honestly lies? Where are their children, wives, lovers? Do not tell my slippers !!!!!
    Their partners, recommended to these partners, do not strain the press, otherwise it wouldn’t work ..... and they’ve frozen the bzhrk.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 3 December 2017 17: 23 New
      +3
      "But who will they shoot at, in which case our elite?" Our elite is the president and commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces; they have nothing abroad that you listed. In the case of a missile strike against Russia, they will not ask anyone - and not when will they do it, they will have only 5 minutes to decide on a retaliatory strike and the strike will be delivered.
      1. apro
        apro 3 December 2017 17: 47 New
        +2
        Then the second question, why should they shoot around Russia if the country's financial system is under their control? If the education system is also under their control? and dual citizenship management system?
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 3 December 2017 19: 04 New
          +2
          In Russia, everything has its own control, but those who control from time to time hammer out their duties.
  24. zombirusrev
    zombirusrev 3 December 2017 17: 15 New
    0
    Apparently there are a lot of “sleeping” people in the military-industrial complex now, and when we choose Putin again or someone more patriotic and the “new 37th” starts / E. Letov (s) / they will run to the owner "for the Puddle" (s) they also need will beat something in the chest with something. Why im tan new "Vel fer" (c) should pay. In general, this is not stupidity, but betrayal.
  25. ul_vitalii
    ul_vitalii 3 December 2017 18: 06 New
    +6
    In the “Russian spring” there were 380 comments on this topic, the conversation was lively, the bulk goes to GDP, and everyone who is remembered. And with us everything is decorous and noble, without verbal excesses.
  26. Alexander Petrov1
    Alexander Petrov1 3 December 2017 18: 37 New
    0
    Yes, it’s necessary to finish the shield of the Motherland, otherwise it would be a shame for Great Russia to please the hated Americans, after the news they arranged a banquet in the white house !? As they say: “don’t save on security, but they’ll kill you !?”
  27. Nemesis
    Nemesis 3 December 2017 19: 18 New
    +1
    BZHRK is a good thing, it costs less than a nuclear submarine and service on them is less dangerous ... and secrecy is decent for them ...
    1. weksha50
      weksha50 3 December 2017 19: 28 New
      +3
      Quote: Nemesis
      BZHRK is a good thing, it costs less than a nuclear submarine and service on them is less dangerous ... and secrecy is decent for them ...


      Ahem ... According to the conclusion (at one time) of the 4th Central Research Institute of the RF Ministry of Defense, service at the BZHRK was orders of magnitude lower in ergonomics and an order of magnitude higher in danger ...
      Guess why?
      To guess, you yourself need to visit this "safe skin" ...

      PS And about the "cheaper" ... In the current tragicomic economic times - you can’t even imagine how much Russian Railways will save money, and how much under this type of lard can be rolled back or sawn ... Cosmic and astronomical amounts ...
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 3 December 2017 19: 33 New
        0
        I have my own opinion, which differs from the opinion of furniture experts ... like Serdyukov ... and (Napoleon) alcoholic Yeltsin, like Pasha Grachev, nicknamed Mercedes ...
        1. weksha50
          weksha50 3 December 2017 20: 40 New
          +1
          Quote: Nemesis
          I have my own opinion, which differs from the opinion of furniture experts ... like Serdyukov ... and (Napoleon) alcoholic Yeltsin, like Pasha Grachev, nicknamed Mercedes ...


          Well ... Not at night devils remembered ... Holy-holy ... lol
  28. serge siberian
    serge siberian 3 December 2017 19: 22 New
    +1
    The train was already there, which means there is a sample. Let the minds look for options. And at 89 even dispatchers found out about such trains only when it appeared on their section.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 3 December 2017 19: 39 New
      +3
      BZHRK is not a ghost train - without dispatchers, it will not appear on the tracks, otherwise it will become “ghosts” and those with whom it will encounter.
      1. serge siberian
        serge siberian 4 December 2017 18: 35 New
        0
        Only a specialist from the "special department" of the Ministry of Railways could know about such a train, and then on this railway section, he made out an application for a locomotive brigade (I told you secretly).
  29. Old26
    Old26 3 December 2017 19: 34 New
    +4
    Quote: Monos
    It seems to me that such a decision on Barguzin is associated with certain successes in the field of hypersound. If a hypersonic weapon is already on the way, then it is more reasonable to throw all the resources for the speediest development of it. BZHRK, in this case, become not very relevant.

    Even if we assume a breakthrough in the field of hypersound, the closest that can be put into service is the Zircon with a flight range of 400 kilometers. And where does the strategic weapon have to do with it?

    Quote: Primoos
    It will go like a little one.

    I think that will not go. And it would be nice if I did not go. Build tens and hundreds of billions on the deployment of one division, when you can do it using much smaller amounts ...

    Quote: newbie
    it’s absolutely impossible to trace not from space, not from the earth, this is its exclusiveness. the rocket itself, like a standard rocket.

    Absolutely real. Especially now, when there will be only one division. At the first stage, there will be difficulties with its fixation, but it will take several months to find out "its habitat". Moreover, modern satellites are not satellites of the 80s

    Quote: newbie
    Well, you know better, I guess. only now it’s still unknown whether there is any dislocation ?! they are in constant motion. not to confuse them with brothers on a wheeled chassis.

    Oh well, and in constant motion? I do not want to upset you, but on the old BZHRK, the autonomy of the complex was 28 days for food and supplies, and autonomy, taking into account the human factor, was 21 days. For more than 14 days, autonomy has never been. The staff could not stand it ...

    To hide such a cyclopean structure as a permanent deployment point - this is necessary so that the enemy does not have satellites, and analysts who analyze the footage should be blind to both eyes. If desired, paired satellites will be able to monitor this place if not 24 hours a day, then a very long period of time. Moreover, similar satellites now exist not only among Americans, but also in a large number of NATO countries. What the United States could not or cannot do alone will be done jointly

    Quote: voyaka uh
    To deliver a bottle to railway workers. smile They will tell in detail both where and when
    and when next time. And it’s good if they tell a harmless American spy, and not an Ishilov’s from the Caucasus or Central Asia.

    You don’t even have to do this. Enter the computer network of Russian Railways and watch if you wish.

    Quote: Chertt
    Information about the collapse of the project BARZHK "Barguzin" was doubtful, then came a dubious refutation of dubious news ... I would not be surprised if the developers of "Barguzin" are not aware of all this fuss

    But if the official publication of the Government of Russia is a dubious source, then what do you consider reliable? So that the GDP on the screen runs a thumb across the throat, then on the tooth and says - "give a tooth"?

    Quote: Clever man
    Avik is a relic of the past, our hypersound is everything

    And superlight speeds are our biggest everything.

    Quote: ASG7
    I don’t understand what to discuss here. It’s just that so much money has already been “poured” into this complex that stopping it in the pre-trial period is a crime and will be imprisoned for it.

    The trial period? Are you probably from the future? What, are the cars already ready, the construction of the roadblocks has begun, have unmanned sub-stations begun to be equipped, the construction of residential towns for rocketeers? Is the rocket known, its configuration? So where did they get that a lot of power. But pouring money in and launching this complex, spending tens of billions and not receiving quality benefits - this will really be a crime
  30. Vadmir
    Vadmir 3 December 2017 20: 55 New
    0
    I read the comments, most agree that there is no money for Barguzin. However, this is not so - 19 trillion has been allocated for the new state arms program. rubles, it’s not so little. If no money was allocated to Barguzin within the framework of the GPV, it was considered that there are more relevant and effective weapons, such as the Sarmat, Rubezh and Bulava M ICBMs, if we talk about nuclear weapons.
    In my opinion, the reason may be that Barguzin from space is too noticeable, at the current level of space intelligence.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 3 December 2017 21: 57 New
      +1
      These 19 trillion will surely include the wages of a million military personnel, which is 7–8 trillion in seven years, and there will remain 11 trillion on GOS, spare parts, warehouses, clothing, barracks, airfields, etc. There will be 7 trillion left for armament - what you can buy for this money; judge for yourself: one RPG 32 shot costs 100000 rubles, ATGM Whirlwind 1 - 1900000 rubles, one set of Ratnik at least 500000 rubles, Typhoon U - 63 million rubles Kurganets 25 million 120 will cost , Armata under 200 and above, Su 35 almost 2 billion, T 50 under 4 billion, Ka 52 under a billion rubles, aerial bomb KAB 500C three million, rocket X 59 18 million.
      1. Vadmir
        Vadmir 3 December 2017 22: 40 New
        0
        These 19 trillion will surely include the wages of a million military personnel, which is 7–8 trillion in seven years, and there will remain 11 trillion on GOS, spare parts, warehouses, clothing, barracks, airfields, etc. Arms will remain trillions 7
        You confuse the GPV and the annual military budget. All 19 trillion. will go specifically for the purchase of new and modernized weapons. There, even an additional trillion is allocated to storage facilities, hangars and parks for the storage of new weapons.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 4 December 2017 00: 15 New
          +1
          Is this - the military has two budgets or something - then what did they spend 20 trillion of the current program on? All that bought 8 trillion pulls - the remaining 12 where?
  31. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 3 December 2017 20: 57 New
    0
    Quote: kapitan92
    There is a complete failure of the economic policy of the liberal cabinet of the Dimon, and perhaps of an open betrayal of the interests of the country.

    All we need to know about Barguzin is in two lines.
  32. MOSKVITYANIN
    MOSKVITYANIN 3 December 2017 22: 08 New
    0
    Taki think that the "development of a new BZHRK" was a cover for developing a missile, not necessarily an ICBM, it is in the spirit of Soviet traditions ....
    The expert in the article is for all the other "experts" at the VO to believe that he’s completely Putininvast, in my opinion it turned out ... gee ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 4 December 2017 00: 17 New
      +1
      If only it turned out to be a single-stage aerospace aircraft, with a modification of the orbital bomber.
      1. MOSKVITYANIN
        MOSKVITYANIN 4 December 2017 01: 20 New
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        If only it turned out to be a single-stage aerospace aircraft, with a modification of the orbital bomber.

        The young man immediately shows that you are not reading the periodicals ....
        Let's say construction ends ....
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. Zomanus
    Zomanus 3 December 2017 23: 57 New
    0
    And what was this boiling of shit for?
    After all, it is clear that nifig does not depend on the opinions of experts here.
    Someone threw a fan on and the news started.
  35. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 4 December 2017 00: 28 New
    +1
    The difference between “Barguzin” and “Well done” is very large. In 1, a standard wagon base is used with a load of 60 tons against 90 tons of the previous one. The missile takes only one carriage in length, and not two as before. Therefore, the masked train will not be outwardly different from the usual refrigerated train. Therefore, the paths can be used conventional and their wear does not increase, while under the “Molodets” reinforced tracks and wagon trolleys were needed. The rest of the technologies were worked out on "well done", which reduces the development costs! Barguzin. Moreover, the throw tests were successful, it is not clear why they are trying to release the project on the brakes? stop
  36. Old26
    Old26 4 December 2017 00: 42 New
    +1
    Quote: Serge Siberian
    The train was already there, which means there is a sample. Let the minds look for options. And at 89 even dispatchers found out about such trains only when it appeared on their section.

    Not available. Some cars were made not at all in Russia. The carriages of this type are no longer produced as far as is known.

    In the 80s there was no single computer system on the railway. Now, if necessary, hack into this network is not particularly difficult for specialists.
    Moreover, a characteristic feature of such trains is that they do not stop at railway stations for long. They do not load or unload anything. People do not enter or exit cars. In short, a lot of unmasking signs.

    Quote: Zip
    maybe rumors about successful trials were a duck, therefore they covered it until they found out what was the matter, such decisions were not made in 1 day, so they planned.

    But there were no successful tests. There was one successful throw test. Yes and that, not a rocket test of this complex, but the Yars mass-size. But testing means only one thing. From the TPK was thrown out of the Yarsa computer. Maybe the first stage worked for 10-15 seconds. But did it make sense to use the Yars computer? He already leaves the TPK normally. That is, even here they "reported" that they allegedly carried out ....

    Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
    I think that the "development of a new BZHRK" was a cover for developing a missile, not necessarily an ICBM, it is in the spirit of Soviet traditions ...

    Yeah. The development of the HZ of which complex is just a cover for a certain rocket? Which one? Have thoughts? No need to look for a black cat in a dark room. She’s not there anyway. And at the same time engage in conspiracy theology

    Quote: Nemesis
    BZHRK is a good thing, it costs less than a nuclear submarine and service on them is less dangerous ... and secrecy is decent for them.

    Yeah. Their service is such that, with an estimated 3 weeks of “autonomy,” people withstood only 2 weeks. Cheaper submarine? Yes, of course cheaper. If you do not count all the costs of improving paths in the three deployment areas

    Quote: Cheshire
    In the light of what you have said, I hope that this is due to the replacement of the rocket with the land analogue of Zircon. But in this case, too, BZHRK is still relevant. hi

    Of course of course. They shot “Caliber” from the Caspian - everywhere where it was necessary and not necessary, they started “popping gauges” in posts. Barguzin lit up - they began to think up options for placing Iskander, Caliber on it. Now the Zircon trend is now where you need it and where you don’t have to poke it. But what is the meaning of 400 km of Zircon at the railway complex? Where is it get it?
    1. MOSKVITYANIN
      MOSKVITYANIN 4 December 2017 01: 38 New
      +1
      Old26 And ​​what's the point in 400 km "Zircon" at the railway complex? Where will he get it?

      You can build a rocky railway on the Syrian-Israeli border, ride on it back and forth with the Zircons on this train, and to disguise Hezbola militants on the roofs of cars under the guise of refugees .... from Aleppo .... or Mosul , you can even wear white helmets on them ...
      1. ROM1077
        ROM1077 4 December 2017 03: 24 New
        0
        it is worth the Kremlin once again to lie about the missile defense missile defense op there immediately appear trolls explaining their actions LACK OF NECESSITY FOR EXAMPLE AXHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
  37. ROM1077
    ROM1077 4 December 2017 03: 21 New
    0
    How can you trust the words of bureaucrats from the Kremlin? in 2006 they promised that they had already laid down supposedly 2 aircraft carriers. now they have lied with BRD ... to their mouth ...... to ............
  38. eugraphus
    eugraphus 4 December 2017 05: 11 New
    +1
    Aircraft carriers are expensive, BZHRK is expensive, heavy and wide-body aircraft are expensive, armored vehicles on a single platform are expensive, and how much they wrote about the Kerch bridge, which is expensive and will wash away. Arctic, space, science, stadiums, high-speed rail roads, Everything is expensive and unprofitable. They even said that it was unprofitable to grow bread. Thousands of arguments to collapse all this and happiness will immediately become us. And the more we curl up, the harder we can dictate that we finish off the remnants of our power.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 4 December 2017 09: 23 New
      +1
      “Heavy-duty and wide-body aircraft are expensive, armored vehicles on a single platform are expensive” But these are two points that Russia critically needs.
  39. eugraphus
    eugraphus 4 December 2017 05: 50 New
    0
    On the argument that the Americans will control the BZHRK via satellites, it was thought - during the war the number one task was to blind these "eyes" of the enemy. And somehow the picture will already be completely different.
    If you don’t whine that it’s “the boss, everything is lost”, but systematically work out all the problems, then the issues of radiation safety, intermediate parking, life of personnel during trips, etc. are solvable. Most of them have an organizational plan. Technical issues? - So science does not stand still. And there is always not enough money. How many do not give, everything will be small. The main thing is the intended use and tight control.
    And then - "I twist and turn, I want to deceive", guess NATO, where we have rockets.
  40. Old26
    Old26 4 December 2017 10: 46 New
    +1
    Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
    Old26 And ​​what's the point in 400 km "Zircon" at the railway complex? Where will he get it?

    You can build a rocky railway on the Syrian-Israeli border, ride on it back and forth with the Zircons on this train, and to disguise Hezbola militants on the roofs of cars under the guise of refugees .... from Aleppo .... or Mosul , you can even wear white helmets on them ...

    Railway in Syria?
    No, comrade, I certainly understand that when the arguments end, versions come into play, even the most fantastic ones. Well. They, like any others, have a right to exist. But let's take a look at this version too.
    I will not touch on such a sensitive issue. like Israeli intelligence tracking such a train. Let's leave it out of brackets. There are some issues that need to be resolved.
    And the first and most important one is who will build this road. After all, it will take a road 70-80 km long. The cost of one kilometer of railway is quite high. So will the Syrians build this road for their money or will it be another free gift from us to the fraternal Syrian people?
    The second question. In order to at least somehow secure this road, it will have to be built about 50 kilometers from the border, no more. Elsewhere, the terrain does not fit. Good. Built. Now the next, third question
    The third question. Syria borders with Israel for about the same 70 km. But here is just one inconvenience. The border runs through the so-called Golan Heights, more precisely east of the heights. And this is a mountain plateau with a height of about 1000 meters. To the east of these heights in the valley will be laid this very rocky road for the "armored train with Zircons." Between the road and the goal is a plateau 1000 meters high. Will you aim at the peephole, if only to get somewhere? Or how. I'm not talking about the fourth question. And he is next
    The fourth question. The speed of "Zircon" on open materials is about 8M. Will you use speed to the full extent or cost 6M? So here. In the first case, the rocket enters the Mediterranean Sea after 40 seconds of flight, in the second - after 50. And during this time, in order not to burn out and fall apart at a low altitude, the rocket will need to rise. 20 kilometers, at least. And where will she then aim ???

    Quote: Vlad5307
    The difference between “Barguzin” and “Well done” is very large. In 1, a standard wagon base is used with a load of 60 tons against 90 tons of the previous one:

    This will give only one advantage. There will be no four-axle trolley, but a two-axle one, or a maximum of three-axle.
    And these cars will not be evident to the outside observer.

    Quote: Vlad5307
    The missile takes only one wagon in length, and not two as before .:

    Who gave you such a heresy? And at the 961st complex, the product occupied ONE wagon, not two, as you write here

    Quote: Vlad5307
    Therefore, the masked composition will not be outwardly different from the usual refrigerator .:

    And even then it differed from the usual train only in carts of several wagons (it was still not visible from above) and in that the three trains were dragging a small train

    Quote: Vlad5307
    Therefore, the ways can be used conventional and their wear does not increase, whereas under Molodets reinforced tracks and wagon trolleys were needed .:

    And someone claimed that reinforced would be required? But depending on the location, you will need to re-create or reconstruct dozens of field launching sites, re-create a permanent deployment point, create the entire residential infrastructure, not to mention the creation of cars, some of which were not created within the RSFSR.

    Quote: Vlad5307
    The rest of the technologies were worked out on "well done", which reduces the development costs! Barguzin. "

    Well, in some ways it will reduce it. It will not be necessary to think about how to make a hostel car or a regiment KP car.

    Quote: Vlad5307
    the more so since the throw tests were successful, it is not clear why they are trying to release the project on the brakes? stop

    The throw test was successfully passed and by no means the 15Zh83 missile of the Barguzin complex, but the slightly modernized 15Zh55M Yars missile. Rocket 15ZH83 STILL NOT TESTED . Why was it necessary to throw out the Yars GVM from the TPK - ask those who reported on implementation. And the throw test - it simply triggers the PAD, the model is thrown out of the TPK to a certain height and the first-stage engine is turned on for a few seconds to take the rocket away from the car. ALL. Nothing else happened there and to say that the test was successful - sorry, very presumptuous. Successfully completed the roll. Something I do not recall a single case from the history of our rocket technology, so that the throwing ends in failure. The first launches of a full-fledged rocket - yes, that was. But not throwing
    1. Vlad5307
      Vlad5307 4 December 2017 14: 34 New
      0
      Quote: Vlad5307
      .
      The difference between “Barguzin” and “Well done” is very large. In 1, a standard wagon base is used with a load of 60 tons against 90 tons of the previous one:
      This will give only one advantage. There will be no four-axle trolley, but a two-axle one, or a maximum of three-axle.
      And these cars will not be striking to the outside observer

      Molodets had 4 2-axle bogies per refrigerator type car, the length of which was noticeably longer than a standard refrigerator. After passing such a train, the repairmen always checked the tracks for the possibility of their further civilian use.
      Quote: Vlad5307
      The missile takes only one wagon in length, and not two as before .:
      Who gave you such a heresy? And at the 961st complex, the product occupied ONE wagon, not two, as you write here

      Yes, the car was one, but almost the length of two ordinary with 2 2-axle bogies, but it could not be otherwise.
      But depending on the location, you will need to re-create or reconstruct dozens of field launching sites, re-create a permanent deployment point, create the entire residential infrastructure, not to mention the creation of cars, some of which were not created within the RSFSR.

      Field start positions are not needed since the start takes place directly from the railway. ways, but the maintenance infrastructure, yes, will have to be created. Wagons are quite successfully made in the Russian Federation today, as well as new, more powerful diesel locomotives. That allows you to transport a larger number of "wagons" in one train, and you don’t need to mask such a car under a refrigerator - you can use it under a closed freight car.
      The throw test was successfully passed and by no means the 15Zh83 missile of the Barguzin complex, but the slightly modernized 15Zh55M Yars missile. Rocket 15ZH83 HAS NOT BEEN TESTED ANYWHERE. Why was it necessary to throw out the Yars GVM from the TPK - ask those who reported on implementation. And the throw test - it simply triggers the PAD, the model is thrown out of the TPK to a certain height and the first-stage engine is turned on for a few seconds to take the rocket away from the car.

      No one claimed that these were full-fledged tests of the new system, but throwing ones are also needed, because the “launch pad” has changed in weight and dimensions and, possibly, in design. It is still necessary to verify the success of the 1st stage of the launch, no matter how it was worked out on other modifications of the missiles, this is part of the planned tests and it is impossible without it.
      With the new missile, I think, more financial problems than technological ones. There is time to continue work, so far the nuclear shield is quite restraining overseas scumbags from yet another blitz-krieg. and nevertheless, the work on Barguzin d. continued - an extra trump card in the game against the Yankees will not hurt, but will give time for the development of other military directions and not only. hi
  41. kursk87
    kursk87 4 December 2017 13: 48 New
    0
    Refusal of the Barguzin BZHRK project is a big mistake of the defense department. In the current acute geopolitical confrontation with NATO countries, we must have hidden and mobile means of retaliation.
  42. Old26
    Old26 5 December 2017 16: 33 New
    0
    Quote: Vlad5307
    Molodets had 4 2-axle bogies per refrigerator type car, the length of which was noticeably longer than a standard refrigerator. After passing such a train, the repairmen always checked the tracks for the possibility of their further civilian use.

    It was not noticeable anymore. A standard refrigerator car with 2 biaxial bogies has a body length of 17 to 21 meters, depending on the type of car. At the launch pad and the carriage of technological equipment - 23,6 meters each

    Quote: Vlad5307
    Yes, the car was one, but almost the length of two ordinary with 2 2-axle bogies, but it could not be otherwise.

    23,6 meters is the length not almost like two ordinary wagon length of 17 meters (minimum) and 21 meters (maximum).

    Quote: Vlad5307
    Field start positions are not needed since the start takes place directly from the railway. ways, but the maintenance infrastructure, yes, will have to be created. Wagons are quite successfully made in the Russian Federation today, as well as new, more powerful diesel locomotives. That allows you to transport a larger number of "wagons" in one train, and you don’t need to mask such a car under a refrigerator - you can use it under a closed freight car.

    And so almost 200 of them were created for three divisions. Field positions are needed regardless of the infrastructure of the permanent deployment point.
    Diesel locomotives can be arbitrarily powerful. But the three locomotives in the old BZHRK were not because of their low power, but because the train could be disconnected at such field launch sites and the launch modules each could go considerable distances with its locomotive
    In any case, the new BZHRK planned at least three more cars than the old one, since there should be 6 launch vehicles. How many locomotives - no one knows. If one is utter stupidity. if again 3 - then again we step on the same rake. Civilian trains of 60-80 wagons pull two locomotives, and here 20 wagons (if the old version) consists of 3. Americans do not need to be seven spans in the forehead to track such a train, especially since they know the approximate range of action. Many “wagons”, especially “superfluous” ones, are generally difficult to carry, since all the wagons of the complex are functional and not only connected by an automatic coupler. but also cable and pipe network




    Quote: Vlad5307
    No one claimed that these were full-fledged tests of the new system, but throwing ones are also needed, because the “launch pad” has changed in weight and dimensions and, possibly, in design. It is still necessary to verify the success of the 1st stage of the launch, no matter how it was worked out on other modifications of the missiles, this is part of the planned tests and it is impossible without it.
    With the new missile, I think, more financial problems than technological ones. There is time to continue work, so far the nuclear shield is quite restraining overseas scumbags from yet another blitz-krieg. and nevertheless, the work on Barguzin d. continued - an extra trump card in the game against the Yankees will not hurt, but will give time for the development of other military directions and not only. hi