Military Review

Aviation against tanks (part of 16)

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Aviation against tanks (part of 16)



Currently, few people remember the first western anti-tank guided missile, the Nord SS.10, adopted by the French army in 1955. The world's first production ATGM was created on the basis of the German Ruhrstahl X-7 and was controlled by wire. In turn, on the basis of SS.10, the specialists of the French aircraft manufacturer Nord-Aviation in 1956 created an improved SS.11 ATGM. Aviation a variant of this rocket was designated AS.11.

An AS.11 ATGM with a launch weight of 30 kg had a launch range from 500 m to 3000 m and carried a cumulative warhead weighing 6,8 kg. The armor penetration for the end of 50-s was very large - 600 mm of homogeneous armor. In addition to the cumulative warhead, there were variants with fragmentation and "antimaterial" combat units. The flight speed was low - 190 m / s, which was largely determined by the aerodynamic design and control system. Like many other ATGMs of the first generation, the rocket was guided manually by the operator, while the burning tracer installed in the tail section was required to be combined with the target.


ATGM AS.11


The first carrier of AS.11 rockets was the light twin-engine Dassault MD 311 Flamant transport aircraft. These machines were used by the French Air Force in Algeria for reconnaissance and bombardment of rebel positions. The aircraft with a maximum take-off weight of 5650 kg developed a speed of up to 385 km / h. Practical range of about 900 km. At least one machine was prepared for the use of AS.11 rockets. The workplace of the guidance operator was in the glazed bow.


Aircraft MD 311 with suspended AS.11 ATGM


When launching missiles, the flight speed decreased to 250 km / h. At the same time, any maneuvers until the end of the missile guidance were excluded. The target was attacked from a gentle dive; the launch range did not exceed 2000. It is reliably known that AS.11 was used during hostilities in Algeria to destroy warehouses and shelters equipped in caves.



Simultaneously with the adoption of the AS.11 ATGM, mass production of the Alouette II helicopter began. He became the world's first production helicopter with a turbo-shaft engine.


Alouette II with AS.11 ATGM


It was a fairly lightweight and compact machine with a maximum take-off weight of 1600 kg, equipped with a single Turbomeca Artouste IIC6 engine with an 530 hp power. The helicopter developed a maximum speed of 185 km / h. Ferrying range - 560 km. Up to four wire-guided missiles could be hung on the Alueta II. The ATGM operator and guidance equipment were located to the left of the pilot.

Although the Algerian partisans did not have armored vehicles, helicopters equipped with ATGM were actively used in combat operations. “Rocket carriers”, as a rule, operated in conjunction with the Sikorsky H-34 and Piasecky H-21 helicopters armed with NAR, 7,5 and 12,7-mm machine guns and 20-mm cannons. The targets for the ATGM were the strongholds of the partisans and the entrances of the caves.

During the fighting in Algeria, the "turntables" began to protect the fuel tanks and the power plant, and the pilots wore body armor and helmets during the sorties. Although the first combat helicopters and their weapons were still very far from perfect, their use in hostilities allowed them to gain experience and outline ways for further development. Taking into account the experience of the fighting in Algeria, a fire support helicopter SA.3164 Alouette III Armee was created. The helicopter cockpit was covered with anti-bullet armor, the armament operator had four anti-tank guided missiles, a mobile machine-gun unit or a 20-mm cannon. The helicopter did not pass the test, as the installation of body armor caused a drop in flight data.


SA.3164 Alouette III Armee


In 1967, a modification was developed by the AS.11 ATGM, known as Harpon with the semi-automatic guidance system SACLOS. When using this system, the operator was enough to keep the target in the crosshairs, and the automation itself would take the missile to the line of sight.


Launch of ATGM AS.11 Harpon with Alouette III


Thanks to this, it was possible to significantly increase the likelihood of an ATGM hit the target, and the effectiveness of the application no longer depended on the skills of the guidance operator. The use of a semi-automatic guidance system breathed a second life into an aging AS.11 rocket, and its production continued until the beginning of the 80s. In total, about 180000 missiles were produced, which were in service in more than 40 countries. The carrier of the AS.11 ATGM was also the French Alouette III helicopter, the early versions of the SA.342 Gazelle and the British Westland Scout.


Scout AH.Mk 1


Even during the Korean War, Americans experienced an armed version of the Bell-47 light helicopter with a 7,62-mm caliber machine gun and two X-NUMX-mm M-88,9 Super Bazooka anti-tank grenade launchers. Also in the United States, after the end of hostilities in Korea, Bell-20 with ATGM SS.47 was tested, but it didn’t go further experiments.


Bell-47 with SS.10 ATGM


The first American experimental carrier of the AS.11 ATGM was apparently Kaman HH-43 Huskie synchropper. This light helicopter was used during the Vietnam War in rescue operations, but did not receive its armed development option.


ATGM AGM-22


After the failure of the SSM-A-23 Dart own ATGM program, the Americans bought a batch of SS.1959 missiles in 11 for evaluation and testing. In 1961, the rocket was approved as an anti-tank vehicle for installation on HU-1B (UH-1В Iroquois) helicopters, the helicopter could take up to six missiles. In June 1963, the SS.11 missiles in the US Army were renamed AGM-22.


Iroquois with AGM-22 ATGM


In 1966, the AGM-22 ATGM was tested in combat in Southeast Asia. At first, guided missiles from helicopters were used very limitedly, mainly for "point strikes" near the positions of their own troops. In 1968, attacks by units of the North Vietnamese army were supported in some cases. tanks PT-76 and T-34-85, later the Vietnamese communists used the captured M41, Soviet T-54 and their Chinese counterparts "Type 59" in the fighting. In response, the US command organized a hunt for enemy armored vehicles using all available means. The most effective were the carpet bombing carried out by fighter-bombers F-105 and strategic bombers B-52. However, this method of combating armored vehicles was too costly, and the command remembered the Iroquois equipped with AGM-22 ATGMs.


Launch of AGM-22 ATGM with UH-1B at the test site


However, the result was not too impressive. Due to the fact that for confident guidance of a manual-guided anti-tank guided missile to a target, highly skilled and trained operators were required, and the launches themselves often took place under enemy fire, the effectiveness of the use of missiles was low. From 115 used 95 anti-tank missiles "went into the milk." As a result, the military preferred, albeit relatively expensive, but much more accurate and easy-to-use ATGM BGM-71 ТOW (eng. Tube, Opticall, Wire - which can be translated as a rocket launched from a tubular container with optical guidance, controlled by wire) and in 1976, the AGM-22 rocket was officially removed from service.

Unlike the AGM-22 ATGM TOW had a semi-automatic guidance system. After the launch, it was enough for the operator to keep the central mark on the target before the missile hit the enemy tank. Control commands are transmitted through thin wires. Coil with wire located in the rear of the rocket.


ATGM "Tou"


The launch range of the BGM-71A, which was put into service in the 1972 year, was 65-3000 m. Compared to the AGM-22, the dimensions and mass of the rocket were significantly smaller. BGM-71A weighing 18,9 kg carried 3,9 kg cumulative warheads with 430 mm armor penetration, in the first half of 70-x this was quite enough to defeat medium Soviet tanks of the first post-war generation with homogeneous armor.


Options ATGM TOW


In the 70-80s, missile development proceeded along the path of increasing armor penetration, introducing a new element base and improving the jet engine. So, on the modification BGM-71C (Improved TOW), armor penetration was increased to 630 mm. A special distinctive feature of the BGM-71C model is the additional nose bar installed in the nose cone. In response to the mass production in the USSR of tanks with multi-layer combined armor and dynamic protection units, the US adopted an BGM-71D TOW-2 ATGM with improved engines, a guidance system and a more powerful warhead. The mass of the rocket increased to 21,5 kg, and the thickness of the penetrated homogeneous armor reached 900 mm. Soon BGM-71E TOW-2А appeared with a tandem warhead. In September, 2006, the US military ordered a new wireless TOW 2B RF with a launch range of 4500 m. The radio command guidance system removes restrictions on the range and flight speed of a rocket imposed by the control wire unwinding mechanism from the coils, and increases the acceleration at the acceleration section and reduces flight time rockets. In total, more than 2100 sets of control equipment were supplied for weapons of combat helicopters.

In the final phase of the Vietnam War, North Vietnamese troops very actively used armored vehicles of Soviet and Chinese production, as well as captured tanks and armored vehicles, in combat operations. In this regard, in 1972, the UH-1B helicopters launched an emergency installation of the XM26 system, which was not officially accepted for service. In addition to the six TOW ATGMs on the external sling and guidance equipment, the system included a special stabilized platform, with the help of which oscillations were parried that could affect the accuracy of missile guidance.


Launch ATGM "Tou" with "Iroquois"


The effectiveness of BGM-71A was much higher than that of the AGM-22. ATGM "Tou" in addition to a more sophisticated guidance system had better maneuverability and flight speed up to 278 m / s, which was significantly higher than the French missiles. Due to a higher flight speed, it was possible not only to reduce the attack time, but in some cases to fire several targets in one combat approach. The main threat to antitank helicopters was for troops of the first echelon, especially on the lines of deployment and attack, as well as for units in the areas of location and on the march.

Although the HM26 helicopter system was not the height of perfection, and the Iroquois can hardly be called the ideal carrier of an anti-tank missile, nevertheless Huey, armed with new anti-tank missiles, achieved good results. The first tank was able to be destroyed by launching the TOW 2 ATGM in May 1972. On that day, an anti-tank helicopter group hit four M41 tanks, a truck and an artillery position captured by Vietcong. As a rule, the use of missiles was carried out from a distance of 2000-2700 meters, outside the effective fire of 12,7-mm anti-aircraft guns DShK. The next combat success was achieved on May 9, while repelling an attack by North Vietnamese forces on a southerner camp in the Ben Hett area. Helicopters armed with an ATGM actually thwarted the attack, destroying three PT-76 amphibious tanks. In total, the 1972 of the helicopter anti-tank air group counted 24 tank and 23 other targets in May. In addition to the T-34-85, T-54, PT-76 and M41 tanks, the air strikes were BTR-40, trucks and artillery, mortar and anti-aircraft guns. According to US data, Tou rockets in Vietnam hit several hundred targets. However, by the beginning of the combat use of the ATGM in Indochina, the US military had no illusions about the outcome of the war. As for the BGM-71 ATGM itself, it turned out to be very successful and a long life was prepared for it.

In the first half of the 60's, the US military announced a competition to create a fire support helicopter. The victory in the competition was won by the project of a combat helicopter from Bell Helicopter, which turned out to be preferable to the complex and expensive Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne. The Lockheed Company, which received a contract for the construction of 375 combat helicopters, was unable to bring it to a state that satisfied the military in a reasonable time frame due to the practical implementation of the requirements set forth in the project.


AH-56 Cheyenne


The “Cheyenne”, which first flew into the 21 September 1967 of the year, was quite complex even by modern standards in a machine that used many previously unused technical solutions. Especially for this helicopter, a General Electric Т64-GE-16 turboshaft engine with 2927 kW power was developed, which rotated the main and tail rotors, plus the pushing propeller in the tail section of the machine. Thanks to clean aerodynamic shape and retractable landing gear, the AH-56 should have reached speeds of more than 400 km / h. Built-in weapons consisted of a moving six-barreled caliber 7,62-mm or 20-mm cannon. The NAR, ATGM and 40-mm automatic anti-personnel grenade launchers could be located on the external suspension. The weapon operator had a very advanced XM-112 armament control turning station. The operator was able to maintain and fire on the target during intensive maneuvering. This was due to the turntable. The operator's chair and all sighting equipment were installed on a turntable, which ensures the use of small-arms weapons in the 240 ° sector. To ensure the possibility of combat use in adverse weather conditions and at night, the avionics included a perfect aiming and navigation equipment. However, the refinement and testing of the promising machine was delayed, and the costs exceeded reasonable size. As a result, after the construction of 10 prototypes in August 1972, the program was closed.

In September 1965, the first flight of a specialized combat helicopter AN-1 Cobra took place. "Cobra" was developed based on the specifics of the fighting in Southeast Asia. For all its many virtues, the Iroquois was too vulnerable to small-arms fire. weapons and especially large-bore machine guns DShK, which form the basis of the air defense of the Vietnamese partisans. In order to carry out fire support of ground units and escort of transport assault helicopters, a well-protected, more maneuverable and high-speed combat helicopter was required. AN-1G - also known as "Hugh Cobra", was created using components and units of the transport and combat UH-1, which significantly accelerated the development and cheapened the cost of production and maintenance.

On tests, the first serial modification of the AH-1G helicopter, equipped with the Textron Lycoming T53-L-703 engine with an 1400 HP power, developed a speed of 292 km / h in horizontal flight. On production machines, speed was limited to 270 km / h. The helicopter with a maximum take-off weight of 4536 kg, when refueling 980 l of fuel, had a combat radius of about 200 km.


AH-1G


In addition to the bulletproof booking cab, the developers tried to make the helicopter as narrow as possible. Based on the fact that, in combination with better maneuverability and higher flight speed, this will reduce the likelihood of defeat during shelling from the ground. The speed of AN-1G was higher on 40 km / h than that of the Iroquois. The cobra could dive at an angle of up to 80 °, while on UH-1 the diving angle did not exceed 20 °. In general, the calculation was justified: compared with the "Iroquois" falling into the "Cobra" were noted much less frequently. The total weight of the transmission armor, engine and cockpit was 122 kg. However, in the first version of the Cobra, the cockpit did not have armor, which in some cases led to the defeat of the pilot and the gunner-operator from small arms. However, the AH-1G was greeted very favorably by the flight crew. The helicopter turned out to be very simple to control, its stability in flight at low speeds and in the hover mode was better than that of the UH-1, and the labor costs for maintenance were about the same.

At first, the Cobras were not considered as anti-tank and were used exclusively to defeat manpower and actions to curb the delivery of reserves and cargoes by the Vietcong. Very often, helicopters, at the request of ground forces, participated in repelling attacks on advanced posts and bases, and also accompanied transport helicopters and engaged in search and rescue operations. The armament of the AN-1G was appropriate - on the four external suspension nodes, 7-19 mounted 70-mm NAR charging units, 40-mm automatic rocket launchers, 20-mm guns and 7,62-mm machine guns. Built-in weapons consisted of 7,62-mm six-barreled machine gun or 40-mm grenade launcher on a movable turret.


Start NAR with AN-1G


The first combat use of Cobers against tanks occurred in Laos in 1971. Initially, helicopter crews attempted to use 20-mm guns in suspended containers against tanks. However, the effect of this turned out to be zero, and it was necessary to apply NAR with a cumulative warhead. It soon became clear that it was very difficult to successfully attack unguided rockets, armored vehicles well disguised in the jungle. There were great chances for success when tanks were able to be caught while moving in a convoy, but this did not happen often. Due to their significant dispersion, the NAR was launched from a distance of no more than 1000 m, while the helicopters often fired paired 14,5-mm ZSU based on BTR-40 and 12,7-mm DShK installed on GAZ-63 trucks. Naturally, in such conditions, missiles could not be an effective anti-tank weapon, and attack helicopters suffered significant losses. From 88 AN-1G, who took part in the operation in Laos, 13 was lost from enemy fire. At the same time, military successes also took place: according to American data, the 2 Squadron of the 17 th Air and Cavalry Regiment succeeded in destroying the X-NUMX PT-4 and 76 T-1-34 in Laos.


PT-76 padded during the fighting in Southeast Asia


Taking into account the successful experience of the combat use of the BGM-71A missiles with the UH-1, it was decided to equip the AN-1G combat helicopters with an ATGM. To this end, the XM26 armament control system, telescopic sights and four TOW missile launchers were installed on the two Cobras. From May 1972 to January 1973, the helicopters passed combat tests. According to crew reports, during this period, the 81 guided missile was spent, it was possible to hit 27 tanks, 13 trucks and several firing points. At the same time the helicopters had no losses. This was largely due to the fact that the launch range of the ATGM compared with the NAR was significantly longer and was usually 2000-2200 m, which was outside the effective fire of large-caliber anti-aircraft machine guns. Soon, at the disposal of "Vietcong" appeared MANPADS "Strela-2M", which affected the increase in losses "Iroquois" and "Cobra". Faced with a new threat, the Americans were forced to take measures to reduce the thermal visibility of helicopters. On the Cobra, which flew in Vietnam, a crank pipe was installed, which diverted hot exhaust gases to the plane of rotation of the rotor, where a powerful turbulent flow mixed them with air. In most cases, for the capture of helicopters modified in this way, the sensitivity of the uncooled SG GOS "Strely-2M" was not enough. By the time the Vietnam War ended, 1133 AN-1G was built, with combat losses amounting to about 300 machines.

A further development option for AN-1G was AN-1Q with improved cockpit armor and a new M65 sighting system. Thanks to the installation of an optical sight with a three-fold increase on the gyro-stabilized platform, conditions for searching and tracking the target were improved. Using a helmet-mounted sight, the pilot could fire turret armament in any direction. The number of anti-tank missiles on the outer suspension was brought to 8 units. Several copies converted from AN-1G were sent to combat trials in Vietnam, but due to the evacuation of the American troops, the vehicles managed to make only a few sorties without achieving specific results. Nevertheless, the tests were recognized as successful and in this version the helicopter model AN-92G was altered by the 1 helicopter. Simultaneously with a slight increase in the use of guided weapons, due to an increase in take-off weight, a drop in flight data occurred. In order to compensate for the increased take-off weight in the summer of the 1974, a new Textron Lycoming T1-L-53 engine with an 703 hp power was installed on the AH-1800S helicopter. and a new transmission. The external difference of the AH-1S modification from its predecessor was an enlarged fairing of the main gearbox. The variant AH-1S converted all helicopters AN-1Q.

When upgrading helicopters to AH-1Р (AH-1S Prod), the main attention was paid to increasing the effectiveness of combat use and survival on the battlefield by piloting in the following terrain mode. To reduce glare in the cockpit, we installed new flat bullet-proof glasses, changed the configuration of the dashboards, improving the forward-down view. The structure of the updated avionics introduced modern communications and navigation equipment. On a significant part of the modernized machines, new composite blades and a three-barreled 20-mm M197 cannon were introduced. The introduction of guns in weapons significantly increased the ability to combat lightly armored targets. The shelling angles are 100 ° - in azimuth, in the vertical plane - 50 ° up and 22 ° down.


20-mm gun M197 helicopter AH-1S


The electric-powered gun M197 weighs 60 kg and can fire at a rate of up to 1500 rds / min. The AH-1S / R / F helicopters included 300 fragmentation and armor-piercing 20-mm projectiles. The M940 armor-piercing projectile with a mass of 105 g has an initial speed of 1050 m / s, and is capable of penetrating 500 mm armor at a distance of 13 m along the normal.

In the latest version of the AH-1S (Modernized), a laser rangefinder target designator was placed near the telescopic sight in the nose, which allowed to accurately calculate the launch range of the ATGM and improve the accuracy of firing from the cannon and NAR.

With the 1981, deliveries of the AH-1F modification began. In total, the US Army ordered 143 new helicopters, and 387 were further converted from capitally repaired AN-1G. On this model, all the improvements characteristic of the later versions AH-1S were implemented, a system for displaying information on the windshield was also installed, an IR interference generator appeared in the tail section to reduce thermal visibility on the exhaust nozzle deflected upwards, a casing for cooling the exhaust gases outboard air.


AH-1F


The helicopter modification AH-1F with a take-off weight of 4600 kg developed a maximum speed of 277 km / h, the speed of the dive was limited to the value of 315 km / h. In addition to booking the cab and the most vulnerable parts of the engine and transmission, the tail boom is reinforced to withstand the hit of armor-piercing bullets of caliber 12,7-mm.

Although AN-1 in Vietnam showed good results in general, there were significant reserves to increase combat survivability. First of all, it concerned the improvement of the cabin reservation, and the use of a twin-engine power plant. In October, 1970 of the year made the first flight of AN-1J "Sea Cobra", created by order of the United States KMP. Prior to this, the Marine Corps Aviation had operated three dozen AH-1Gs in Vietnam.

Thanks to the use of twin engines Pratt & Whitney PT6T-3 "Twin Pac" with take-off power 1340 kW and a new rotor, increased to 14,63 m diameter, it was possible to improve flight performance, increase operational safety from aircraft carriers and bring the combat load to 900 kg. The rifle caliber machine gun took the triple-barrel 20-mm gun on the turret. The upgraded twin-engine Cobras took part in the fighting in Vietnam, albeit in smaller numbers than the AH-1G. Subsequently, the US KMP received at its disposal 140 AN-1J, in the first stage of operation of the 69 machines were armed with an ATGM "Tou". AN-1J in 1976 was followed by AN-1T "Sea Cobra" - an improved model for the Marine Corps with a new weapon control system.


AN-1W


The next twin-engine version was the AN-1W "Super Cobra", which made the first flight of 16 on November 1983 of the year. This machine has two General Electric T700-GE-401 engines with a take-off power of 1212 kW. Serial AH-1W shipments began in March 1986. The Marines initially ordered the 74 helicopter. In addition, 42 AN-1T were upgraded to AN-1W. The armament of the AN-1W helicopters included the AIM-9 Sidewinder UR air combat and the AGM-114В Hellfire anti-tank guns (up to 8 units).

Today, AGM-114 Hellfire guided anti-tank missiles are the most advanced used on American helicopters. The first AGM-114A Hellfire ATGM with a semi-active laser GOS began to be delivered to the troops in 1984. Starting weight rocket 45 kg. Starting range to 8 km. For the Marine Corps helicopters, an AGM-114В modification was made, featuring the use of an improved GPS, a safer cocking system and a jet engine on low-smoke solid fuel. The development and production of the Hellfire ATGM is still ongoing. For more than 30 years since its introduction into service, a number of modifications with improved characteristics have been developed and approximately 100 000 copies have been made. In 1998, the AGM-114L Longbow Hellfire model with a millimeter-wave radar homing system, corresponding to the principle of “fired and forgotten”, appeared. This 49 kg missile carries a 9 kg tandem shaped-charge warhead with 1200 mm armor penetration. "Hellfire" has a supersonic flight speed - 425 m / s. Currently produced around 80 000 missiles of various modifications. As of 2012 year, the cost of AGM-114K Hellfire II was about $ 70 thousand.

Probably the most advanced laser-guided model is the AGM-114K Hellfire II. The homing head of this missile has improved noise immunity and can re-capture in case of loss of tracking. In the UK, a Brimstone guided missile with a three-millimeter-wave radar-based radar and laser seeker was created on the basis of the Hellfire UR. Compared to the carrier of the previous generation Tou, the helicopter equipped with the Hellfire missiles is much less constrained in maneuver during combat use.


AGM-114 Hellfire ATGM next to 70-mm NAR Hydra 70


At the moment, the most modern model of a combat helicopter, available in the US KMP, is the AH-1Z Viper. The first flight of this machine took place on December 8 2000 of the year. Initially, the Marine Corps Command planned to convert the 180 AH-1W to this version. But in 2010, it was decided to order 189 machines, of which 58 should be completely new. The cost of converting AH-1W to AH-1Z costs the military department $ 27mln, and building a new helicopter $ 33 million. For comparison, a single-engine AH-1F was offered to potential customers in 1995 for $ 11,3 million.


AH-1Z


Compared with the early modifications of the Cobra, the combat capabilities of the AH-1Z have increased significantly. Two turboshaft engines General Electric T700-GE-401C, each with a power of 1340 kW, ensured an increase in the maximum take-off weight to 8390 kg. The combat radius with a load of 1130 kg is 230 km. The maximum speed of the dive is 411 km / h.

The most visible external feature of the Vipers is the new four-blade main rotor made of composite materials. He replaced the traditional family of machines "Hugh" two-bladed. To keep the Cobra in the air more and more heavy, it took a more tenacious rotor, with more lift. The tail screw was also four-bladed. On-board avionics are fully transferred to the modern element base. Analog devices in the SuperKob cabin were replaced by an integrated control system with two multifunctional liquid crystal displays in each cabin. The helicopter installed an infrared system for viewing the front hemisphere FLIR, similar to the one installed on the AH-64 Apache. Also added was the helmet-mounted Top Owl target designation complex, combined with night-vision goggles, which made it possible to make combat missions in difficult weather conditions and at night.

Due to the increased thrust-to-weight ratio of twin-engine variants, as the new modifications appeared, the maximum flight speed increased, and it was possible to somewhat increase the security. For example, in American reference books it is stated that the combined metal-polymer armor of the cockpit of the latest versions of AN-1 is capable of keeping the 12,7-mm armor-piercing bullet from the 300 m distance. But at the same time, the majority of foreign aviation experts recognize that Cobra "significantly inferior to the Soviet Mi-24.

In the first half of 70, Iran acquired an X-NUMX attack helicopter AN-202J (AH-1J International). These cars had a number of options, which at that time were not on the USMC helicopters. Thus, the Pratt & Whitney Canada Т1-WV-400 horsepower 402 HP engines were installed on the Iranian “Cobra”. The triple-barreled 1675-mm gun was mounted on a damped mobile turret, coupled with a stabilized sight.

The Iranian Cobras have proved to be an exceptionally effective means of fighting Iraqi armored vehicles. According to the Iranians, the Cobers account for more than 300 Iraqi armored vehicles destroyed. However, a few years after the start of the Iran-Iraq war, an acute shortage of guided anti-tank missiles began to be felt. The Iranian authorities tried to illegally purchase an ATGM "Tou" in a number of countries with a Western orientation. According to a number of sources, a batch of 300 missiles was acquired through intermediaries in South Korea, and the missiles were also obtained as part of the scandalous Iran-Contra deal. Part of the Iranian AN-1J adapted for the use of heavy missiles AGM-65 Maveric. Apparently, Iran has managed to launch its own production of Tou missiles. The Iranian version is known as Toophan. Currently, the production of missiles with a laser guidance system Tophan-5. This rocket, according to Iranian data, has a launch range of 3800 m, weight - 19,1 kg, armor penetration - up to 900 mm.

During the Iran-Iraqi armed confrontation "Cobra" suffered heavy losses. From enemy fire and in flight accidents, more than 100 helicopters were lost. Despite the loss and serious age, AH-1J is still in service with Iran. The cars that remained in the line were overhauled and modernized.

In 1982, the Israeli army used the Cobras (in the Israel Defense Forces they had the name “Tzefa”) in battles with the Syrians. 12 helicopters AH-1S and 30 MD-500, armed with an ATGM "Toy", acted against Syrian tanks. During the fighting, helicopters made more 130 sorties and destroyed 29 tanks, 22 BTR, 30 trucks and a significant number of other targets. According to other data, more than 1982 tanks were destroyed by the Israeli Hugh Cobras in 40 year.



Perhaps the discrepancies are due to the fact that armored vehicles from the Syrian forces and the Palestinian armed forces are taken into account in different sources. However, it would be wrong to say that Israeli combat helicopters unconditionally dominated the battlefield. ATU "Tou" American production is not always operated reliably. The rockets of the first modifications in some cases could not penetrate the frontal armor of the T-72 tanks. And the Cobras themselves were very vulnerable to the Syrian military air defense, which made the crews of anti-tank helicopters to act very carefully. The Israelis recognized the loss of two AH-1S, but how many helicopters were shot down was not really known.



One way or another, but the calculation of unpunished low-altitude attacks using ATGM "Tou" was not justified. With a flight altitude of more than 15-20 meters, the helicopter was most likely detected by a surveillance radar of a self-propelled reconnaissance and guidance system of the Kvadrat SAM at a range of 30 km. The short-range Osa-AKM self-propelled air defense system could detect a helicopter at a distance of 20-25 km, and a ZSU-23-4 Shilka radar detected it at a distance of 15-18 km. All these mobile military air defense systems of Soviet production in the 1982 year were very modern and posed a mortal danger to the anti-tank Cobras. Thus, at a range of 1000 m, the standard 96-round of four barrels of the Shilka hit the Cobra with a probability of 100%, at the range of 3000 m, the probability of hitting was 15%. At the same time getting into a fairly narrow frontal projection of the helicopter is very difficult and 23-mm shells most often destroyed the rotor blades. With a flight speed of 220-250 km / h, a fall from a height of 15-20 m in most cases was fatal for the crew. The situation was aggravated in areas where the Cobras could not hide behind the natural elevations. In the event that the air defense calculations were previously detected by the combat helicopters, the exit to the launch line of the ATGM was fraught with the loss of the helicopter and the death of the crew. So the response time of the crew of the ZSU-23-4 “Shilka” after detecting the target before the opening of fire was 6-7 seconds, and the rocket launched at the maximum range, flies more than 20 seconds. That is, before the missile hit the target, a very limited helicopter in maneuver could have been shot at several times.

At the end of 2013, due to budgetary constraints, Israel wrote off the remaining three dozen combat "Cobras", their functions were assigned to two squadrons of AH-64 Apache. After negotiating with the US 16 repaired AH-1S transferred to Jordan, which uses them in the fight against the Islamists.



The same problem as the Israelis was faced by the American Cobra army crews involved in the 1990-1991 winter campaign. In the initial period of the active phase of the conflict, Iraq’s air defense was not completely suppressed, and a significant number of self-propelled self-propelled air defense systems were in the frontal zone. radar guidance and ZSU-23-4. Also in the Iraqi army there were a large number of MANPADS, 12,7-14,5 ZPU and 23-mm ZU-23. Under these conditions, the AH-64 Apache helicopters, armed with anti-tank guided missile systems with laser homing systems, had a significant advantage. After the launch of the rocket, the pilots could get out of the attack by a sharp maneuver, without thinking about aiming the rocket at the target. In a combat situation, the more modest capabilities of the Cobra army avionics and the absence of night-vision equipment, like the TADS / PNVS system installed on the Apache, were negatively manifested. Due to the high dust content of air and smoke from numerous fires, visibility conditions even during the daytime were often unsatisfactory. Night vision goggles in these conditions could not help and were used, as a rule, only for flights along the route. The situation improved after installation on the non-rotating part of the 20-mm gun of the laser pointer, which projected the gun's aiming point on the terrain and reproduced it on night-vision goggles. The range from the target designator was 3-4 km.

The pilots of the Marine Corps who flew the AN-1W had at their disposal the more sophisticated NTSF-65 aiming and viewing equipment, and they had fewer problems when attacking targets in poor visibility conditions. According to American data, combat helicopters destroyed more than 1000 Iraqi armored vehicles in Kuwait and Iraq. Subsequently, the Americans acknowledged that the statistics of Iraqi losses were overestimated 2,5-3 times.



Currently, AH-64 Apache helicopters have supplanted Cobras in ground helicopter units. In the Marine Corps Aviation AH-1Z Viper combat helicopters there is no alternative yet. Sailors felt that the relatively light "Vipers" are more suitable for basing on the decks of the UDC, than the more technically advanced "Apaches".

To be continued ...

Based on:
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-22.html
http://avions-de-la-guerre-d-algerie.over-blog.com/article-18954712.html
https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=30141
http://www.vokrugsveta.ru/vs/article/2717/
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-71.html
http://www.airvectors.net/avcobra_2.html
https://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/193020.html
Author:
Articles from this series:
Aviation against tanks (part of 1)
Aviation against tanks (part of 2)
Aviation against tanks (part of 3)
Aviation against tanks (part of 4)
Aviation against tanks (part of 5)
Aviation against tanks (part of 6)
Aviation against tanks (part of 7)
Aviation against tanks (part of 8)
Aviation against tanks (part of 9)
Aviation against tanks (part of 10)
Aviation against tanks (part of 11)
Aviation against tanks (part of 12)
Aviation against tanks (part of 13)
Aviation against tanks (part of 14)
Aviation against tanks (part of 15)
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  1. Amurets
    Amurets 8 December 2017 06: 08 New
    +5
    Sergei. Thank. He climbed deeply to the very origins of ATGMs and the time they appeared on helicopters. Thanks again.
  2. Dooplet11
    Dooplet11 8 December 2017 08: 26 New
    +4
    Sergey! Another respect!
  3. sivuch
    sivuch 8 December 2017 10: 03 New
    +8
    . In the initial period of the active phase of the conflict, the air defense of Iraq was not completely suppressed, and in the front line there were a significant number of self-propelled air defense systems with autonomous radar guidance and ZSU-23-4.
    -------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------
    Sergey, this, let's say, is not entirely accurate. It’s just necessary to take into account that in 91 the Saddam army had 750 thousand snouts of personnel — more than 60 divisions and 20 separate brigades. Therefore, to say that 20-22 BM Os (namely BM, not batteries and, moreover, not regiments) and 18 Rolands based on AMX-13 (the rest were in the shelter version) is a significant amount, not necessary. Moreover, Shilok was sparse, from 150 to 200. The basis of the air defense of the Iraqi division were 1 or 2 air defense battalions, armed with any small artillery 20-23mm, were also S-60, ZSU-57-2 and, possibly, their Chinese clones. There are a lot of MANPADS, although both in quantity and in quality before the Soviet division they were like in China. And most importantly, there were no control systems from the word at all, neither PPRU-1, nor PU-12, nor KShM.
    1. Bongo
      8 December 2017 10: 39 New
      +7
      Quote: sivuch
      Sergey, this, let's say, is not entirely accurate.

      Hi, hi. Thanks for the comment! good
      SAM "Wasp" really was not much, and not the fact that they generally participated in the hostilities. As for the Roland air defense system, it seems to me that there were more of them. At least in the 2003 year, these complexes participated in hostilities and even became trophies of the American army. In 1991, Saddam had about 150 "Shilok". You also did not mention the Kvadrat mobile air defense systems, which Iraq also had. In any case, the pilots of combat helicopters were at a fair risk making sorties.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 8 December 2017 11: 01 New
        +7
        It is believed that they have notably thinned the army air defense, taking many complexes to the rear to protect stationary facilities, especially in Baghdad.
        1. Bongo
          8 December 2017 11: 06 New
          +5
          Quote: Spade
          It is believed that they have notably thinned the army air defense, taking many complexes to the rear to protect stationary facilities, especially in Baghdad.

          I partly agree with this. yes But by Western standards, the front-line air defense of Iraq in 1991 was quite strong.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 8 December 2017 11: 25 New
            +5
            Quote: Bongo
            But by Western standards

            By Western standards, the relative weakness of the ground component of military air defense is overcompensated by its air component.
            1. Bongo
              8 December 2017 11: 29 New
              +5
              Quote: Spade
              By Western standards, the relative weakness of the ground component of military air defense is overcompensated by its air component.

              At least in the US armed forces. yes But I can’t agree that this suits us.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 8 December 2017 11: 32 New
                +4
                Hypercompensation of the weak air component by the ground part of the system is also not a particularly good option.
                Here it is still necessary to maintain a reasonable balance. Given both tactics and finances.
                1. Bongo
                  8 December 2017 11: 41 New
                  +7
                  Quote: Spade
                  Hypercompensation of the weak air component by the ground part of the system is also not a particularly good option.

                  In the USSR there was an almost continuous constant radar field, at least for medium and high altitudes. The composition and level of combat readiness of the country's air defense in the border regions was the highest. At the end of the 80's, Americans would wash their blood in a non-nuclear conflict, even without the participation of Soviet front-line fighters and military air defense. At the moment, our capabilities in this regard have decreased by an order of magnitude. And the ground component of our air defense is now focal. Given the fact that the number of airfields and fighter regiments has also decreased several times, things are not too good. Only a few years ago, the air defense system of the Russian Federation ceased to degrade.
                  1. KKND
                    KKND 8 December 2017 13: 39 New
                    +2
                    Yeah, just how much did all these "radars" stand? And then oil fell and the superpower went bankrupt.
                    1. Bongo
                      8 December 2017 14: 51 New
                      +7
                      Good evening, Cyril.
                      Quote: KKND
                      Yeah, just how much did all these "radars" stand? And then oil fell and the superpower went bankrupt.

                      Not much ... much less than in the "new Russia" was stolen and taken abroad.
                      1. KKND
                        KKND 8 December 2017 14: 56 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Bongo
                        Not so much...

                        Now you won’t count ...
                        Quote: Bongo
                        much less than in the "new Russia" was stolen and taken abroad.

                        Well, "radars" are better than yachts, definitely.
                        Oh, why didn’t strategic enterprises give up to “private owners” under Brezhnev?
                        Eh, why do not our "oligarchs" invest in production?
                        Oh, what to do?
      2. sivuch
        sivuch 8 December 2017 11: 09 New
        +4
        Well, divide 150 Shiloks into 60 divisions .... Only the answer will be wrong, because Shilka and Arrows-10 were in the WG, and even, maybe, in some TDs. And Lopatov wrote correctly about Cubes - they were mostly used stationary in the rear. There were neither Os nor Cubes in the air defense divisions.
        There were more than a hundred Rolands, but besides those 18, they were towed.
        A strong air defense of Iraq could only be by the standards of third world countries. There are many trunks - about fifty in the division, and the radar and controls are not.
        1. Bongo
          8 December 2017 11: 27 New
          +5
          Quote: sivuch
          A strong air defense of Iraq could only be by the standards of third world countries.

          Well, consider that you convinced me. But something else bothers me, have I correctly described the modifications of "Cobra"? In different sources, the information is very contradictory. request
          1. sivuch
            sivuch 8 December 2017 11: 47 New
            +8
            If you want to dislocate your brains - study the modifications of Cobra. winked
            So, well, his ...
            Another point - Shilka’s reaction time, 6-7 seconds - this is if there is a TS, at least gross. If not, what was the norm for Iraq, then more than 20. And if you are still afraid to turn on the radar, as it was in the Middle East, then the efficiency is rapidly declining to zero.
    2. Amurets
      Amurets 8 December 2017 10: 55 New
      +6
      Quote: sivuch
      there were also S-60, ZSU-57-2 and, possibly, their Chinese clones.

      The Chinese clone of the S-60 gun, 57mm type 59 anti-aircraft gun, may have been in the Iraqi army, I could not find any confirmation, but the ZSU-57-2 in the 80s, the Chinese themselves bought in Iraq. Details: "In China, they tried several times to create a modern ZSU. The first attempt was made in the early 80s. The Soviet Union at one time sold Iran a ZSU-57-2, which, as the name implies, was armed with two 57-mm guns The Chinese managed to persuade the Iranians to sell them this combat vehicle. Having examined it, experts from the Celestial Empire created their own anti-aircraft self-propelled guns on its base. From the original, this Type 80 ZSU differed in that the fighting compartment was airtight, thanks to the roof. The tower was mounted on the tank chassis "Type 69-II."
      There was no radar and any other modern detection and aiming tools on this machine, and at the beginning of the 80s this machine was already considered obsolete, at best it corresponded to the level of the beginning of the 50s. Of course, in this form of the PLA, it was not needed. The foreign clients of the Chinese military-industrial complex were not interested in it. "
      http://www.vestnik-rm.ru/news-15-322.htm
      Mismatch of countries: Iran and Iraq in different sources cite different countries.
      1. Bongo
        8 December 2017 10: 59 New
        +4
        Quote: Amurets
        Chinese clone of the C-60 gun, 57mm anti-aircraft gun type 59, it was possible in the Iraqi army, I could not find confirmation

        Hi Nikolay! According to The Military Balance 2017 57-mm C-60 anti-aircraft guns are still available in the Iraqi army. As for the Chinese clones, it is doubtful. no
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 8 December 2017 14: 21 New
          +3
          Quote: Bongo
          As for the Chinese clones, it is doubtful.

          Sergei. Hey. So I doubt the Chinese clones. What Soviet-made there were, I know. EMNIP, the Chinese had problems with the production of trunks.
      2. sivuch
        sivuch 8 December 2017 11: 21 New
        +4
        the technology was officially handed over to the Chinese on the S-60, they didn’t even have to steal, so they had to develop radars for it themselves
  4. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 8 December 2017 10: 24 New
    +6
    AH-56 Cheyenne - an interesting project, even now impresses ..
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 8 December 2017 10: 42 New
      +7
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      AH-56 Cheyenne - an interesting project

      Very interesting 8)))
      The Americans assure everyone that “yes, nothing complicated,” blaming the failed result on “graters” between the Army and the Air Force over the wings on it. 8)))
      But many, including the author, write that in fact they encountered insurmountable technical difficulties.
      By the way, the fact that now they are "sawing" the Kama twin-screw scheme, which is completely uncharacteristic of American helicopter engineering, plus a pushing screw, hints that the problems are intractable even at the present stage.
  5. novel66
    novel66 8 December 2017 10: 40 New
    +6
    thanks, we look forward to continuing, I hope this topic is endless hi
    1. Bongo
      8 December 2017 10: 46 New
      +7
      Quote: novel xnumx
      thanks, we look forward to continuing, I hope this topic is endless

      Roman, thanks for the kind words. But already only the readers were tired, but I myself. belay
      1. novel66
        novel66 8 December 2017 10: 47 New
        10
        I, as a reader, I’ll be a bastard, I’ve never got tired, I’ll also re-read!
        1. Bongo
          8 December 2017 10: 51 New
          +7
          Quote: novel xnumx
          I, as a reader, I’ll be a bastard, I’ve never got tired, I’ll also re-read!

          There are not many like you. request Please note that similar publications are commented on by the same people who are interested in this topic, and who are at least a little “in the subject”. one way or another, but the number of readers compared to the first "series" has decreased by about half.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 8 December 2017 10: 59 New
            +7
            Quote: Bongo
            but the number of readers compared to the first "series" has decreased by about half.

            Children of the Internet 8)))) Everything that is larger in size than the size of a message on Twitter is hard to fit in your head, and therefore read diagonally. Well, long episodes are even more difficult to understand 8)))
            1. Bongo
              8 December 2017 11: 04 New
              +6
              Quote: Spade
              Children of the Internet 8)))

              Unfortunately, not only "children".
              Quote: Spade
              Well, long episodes are even more difficult to understand 8)))

              Well, I don’t know, which is much easier .. I consciously go so as not to "go into the wilds" and try to "chew". Even my friend, most of the written is understandable, however, she is an extraordinary person.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 8 December 2017 11: 15 New
                +6
                Quote: Bongo
                Unfortunately, not only "children".

                This is not age, this is the optimization of thinking for specific tasks. Rather, on the contrary, an ordinary student, because of his studies, is better at absorbing information from long texts.

                Quote: Bongo
                Well, I don’t know where it’s much easier .. I consciously go to "climb into the wilds" and try to "chew"

                Or maybe you need to do the opposite? Comic style, short sentences, more patterns and drawings, less text. And remove all chewing under the spoiler. Like in the famous film "Starship Troopers" - "Want to know more?" (c) 8))))))))))))))))
                1. Bongo
                  8 December 2017 11: 19 New
                  11
                  Quote: Spade
                  Or maybe you need to do the opposite? Comic style ...

                  This is better for Kaptsov. As I have already written many times, I try to do as I myself would be interested to read. And I select the appropriate topics. hi
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 8 December 2017 11: 22 New
                    +4
                    No, Kaptsov’s not that ... His style is to troll readers 8))))))))) This is not a comic book.
                    1. Bongo
                      8 December 2017 11: 30 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Spade
                      No, Kaptsov’s not that ... His style is to troll readers of 8)))))))))
                      This is now, a few years ago, he had this happened.
              2. avt
                avt 8 December 2017 11: 30 New
                +6
                Quote: Bongo
                Unfortunately, not only "children".

                request
                Quote: Spade
                it’s not age

                This condition is described by Fonvizin. The number of “mitrofanushes” even by a search engine who do not want to work on the same Wikipedia (something more is not needed from undergrowths) really rolls over. request
                Quote: Spade
                Or maybe you need to do the opposite? Comic style, short sentences, more patterns and drawings, less text.

                wassat There is a desire to lead the movement of the young !? bully I did not expect from the gunner!
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 8 December 2017 11: 44 New
                  +8
                  Quote: avt
                  There is a desire to lead the movement of the young !? I did not expect from the gunner!

                  With my experience of driving the basics of higher mathematics into my brains, I’m kidding with eight classes of a rural school. 8)))
                  In the second or third month of military service, I go to the barracks, I hear screams from the disposal. I went to watch. The then NSh division was standing, computermen, gun commanders and gunners were pushing in front of him, shouting "six by three-eighteen, seven by three-twenty-one ..."
                  The artillery version "does not reach over the head ..." (c)
                  8)))))))))))))))))
                  1. KKND
                    KKND 8 December 2017 13: 34 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Spade
                    With my experience of driving the basics of higher mathematics into my brains, I’m kidding with eight classes of a rural school. 8)))

                    I don’t know how you taught in the army there, but they “corrected” my brains.
                    But, of course, training “youth” is a futile business.
            2. BAI
              BAI 8 December 2017 12: 03 New
              +4
              Children of the Internet 8)))) Everything that is larger in size than the size of a message on Twitter is hard to fit in your head, and therefore read diagonally.

              Psychologists have proven that only the first 15 minutes of the report are perceived. Next comes the protection of the brain from overload. The only way out is to train your brains (if you wish).
              1. Blackgrifon
                Blackgrifon 8 December 2017 18: 56 New
                +4
                Quote: BAI
                Psychologists have proven - only the first 15 minutes are perceived

                It depends on what report: it throws one from sleep in a minute :) But this does not apply to this series of articles.
                Many thanks to the author for the work done!
          2. Fox
            Fox 8 December 2017 12: 16 New
            +6
            Quote: Bongo
            but the number of readers compared to the first "series" has decreased by about half.

            maybe some just enjoy reading really interesting and informative material, without posting their presence on links to other resources.
          3. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 9 December 2017 02: 07 New
            +2
            Quote: Bongo
            the number of readers compared to the first "series" has decreased by about half.

            Sergey, welcome!
            The first articles concerned the Second World War and suggested a grandfather. Some readers had this in mind. Until the end of the movie, there were just those who were interested in the topic. This is normal.
          4. Soho
            Soho 11 December 2017 07: 24 New
            +4
            similar publications are commented on by the same people

            many do not comment, but read with interest good so we should also be taken into account in statistics))
        2. shuravi
          shuravi 8 December 2017 14: 55 New
          0
          Check out more. laughing
          1. zyablik.olga
            zyablik.olga 8 December 2017 15: 38 New
            +7
            Quote: shuravi
            Check out more.

            What kind of person are you? Where do not appear, all strive to guess. negative
            1. KKND
              KKND 8 December 2017 16: 05 New
              +3
              Quote: zyablik.olga
              What kind of person are you? Where do not appear, all strive to guess.

              Olga, do not hurt, he wrote a very good comment below.
              PS, War is a very big stress.
              1. zyablik.olga
                zyablik.olga 8 December 2017 16: 18 New
                +7
                Quote: KKND
                Olga, do not hurt, he wrote a very good comment below.
                PS, War is a very big stress.

                I happened to communicate with the "ancient" (vaf), I do not know whether you found him in HE, but of course the old-timers remember. Very tactful and pleasant in communicating uncle. Although Sergey participated in many wars as a Su-24 pilot, he never I did not allow myself such as "shuravi".
                It so happened that I have friends who have recently visited Syria. One of them will soon be on a return trip again. But all of them are adequate people, do not put themselves above others, and do not boast of their merits. And in general, they were categorically avoided to mention that they were in hot spots. And the same in general ... fool some kind of wassat
                1. KKND
                  KKND 8 December 2017 16: 25 New
                  +1
                  Quote: zyablik.olga
                  And this one in general ... some kind.

                  War is not a joke, and stress affects everyone in different ways.
                  Quote: zyablik.olga
                  I happened to communicate with the "ancient" (vaf), I don’t know if you found him at VO, but old-timers certainly remember. Very tactful and pleasant in communication uncle.

                  I remember him, then I just read and "studied" as unregistered.
                  All people are different and it is not for you and Olga to judge a fought man.
                  In any case, if he wakes up to write comments on the case, then much can be forgiven. IMHO
                  1. Bongo
                    8 December 2017 16: 43 New
                    +4
                    Quote: KKND
                    War is not a joke, and stress affects everyone in different ways.

                    It is necessary to be treated ...
                    Quote: KKND
                    All people are different and it is not for you and Olga to judge a fought man.

                    Olga and I have the opportunity to communicate with people who fought. Those who did not drink too much are quite adequate.
                    Quote: KKND
                    In any case, if he wakes up to write comments on the case, much can be forgiven.

                    Cyril, do you propose to agree with rudeness? Did you read how he communicated with Anton, or with Nikolai? These are very worthy people who know a lot and have seen a lot. Few can be compared with Anton in terms of intelligence and erudition in HE. And Nikolai is actually my fellow soldier.
                    1. KKND
                      KKND 8 December 2017 16: 48 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Bongo
                      Cyril, do you propose to agree with rudeness?

                      I don’t indicate to others, maybe he will get better? Will he write in the case?
                      That's all I wanted to say.
                      1. Bongo
                        8 December 2017 16: 54 New
                        +4
                        Quote: KKND
                        I don’t indicate to others, maybe he will get better? Will he write in the case?

                        I would like to believe ...
          2. novel66
            novel66 8 December 2017 16: 11 New
            +7
            I won’t take notes, but when the whole series is over (alas and ah!) I will create an electronic version and put it in a booklet, which I also wish for you!
            1. novel66
              novel66 8 December 2017 16: 12 New
              +6
              Well, if the author is not offended!
              1. Bongo
                8 December 2017 16: 35 New
                +5
                Quote: novel xnumx
                Well, if the author is not offended!

                Roman, what insults? Everything that got into the network no longer belongs to me. Moreover, some time ago, I found on the network "scientific work" on the subject of air defense, a lieutenant colonel in the chair of one of the military’s challenges. I was surprised to find that it was on 90% my publication.
                1. dzvero
                  dzvero 8 December 2017 18: 00 New
                  +4
                  This only confirms the high level of your publications. And from the comments (both yours and members of the forum) you can learn a lot of new and interesting. I wish you good luck and look forward to new articles.
                2. novel66
                  novel66 8 December 2017 22: 18 New
                  +4
                  Well! Is this not recognition! You can start to be proud of yourself!
            2. shuravi
              shuravi 8 December 2017 17: 30 New
              +1
              Quote: novel xnumx
              I won’t take notes, but when the whole series is over (alas and ah!) I will create an electronic version and put it in a booklet, which I also wish for you!

              No thanks. I somehow wrote notes on this issue in 1984. Then the practice, about 50 ATGM launches, of which only 3 in the conditions of the range. hi
              1. novel66
                novel66 8 December 2017 21: 30 New
                +5
                with which I congratulate you hi
          3. Ehanatone
            Ehanatone 21 December 2017 19: 54 New
            -1
            shmorawi
            Ineta’s child, EGE burp - what to take from them, wild s, children of mountains ...
  6. BAI
    BAI 8 December 2017 12: 00 New
    +3
    The 2nd squadron of the 17th Air Cavalry Regiment managed to destroy 4 PT-76 and 1 T-34-85 in Laos.

    And this is on a less advanced technique (compared to the Second World War). I’m talking about how much you can believe the Germans about hundreds and thousands of tanks destroyed by their aircraft.
    1. Bongo
      8 December 2017 12: 13 New
      +5
      Quote: BAI
      And this is on a less advanced technique (compared to the Second World War). I’m talking about how much you can believe the Germans about hundreds and thousands of tanks destroyed by their aircraft.

      In fairness, it is worth saying that American combat helicopters had to operate in very difficult conditions. In the jungle, relatively few tanks are easy to mask. Thanks to the vegetation hung on armored vehicles, it was not easy to distinguish it from bushes. The crowns of the trees could hide anything. And the Vietnamese air defense was quite strong. The Americans were lucky that the USSR, fearing that China to get acquainted with the latest models, did not supply the equipment that the Arabs received.
  7. KKND
    KKND 8 December 2017 13: 21 New
    +1
    One way or another, but the calculation of unpunished low-altitude attacks using ATGM “Tou” did not materialize.

    You can find out where the naive "Pinnocio" Americans counted on this?
    But the helicopter's survival on the battlefield is still increasing.
    So the reaction time of the crew ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" after detecting the target before the fire was 6-7 seconds, and a rocket launched at maximum range, flying more than 20 seconds.

    From 3 km, getting from Shilka will be extremely difficult.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 8 December 2017 13: 51 New
      +6
      Quote: KKND
      From 3 km, getting from Shilka will be extremely difficult.

      For an operator who is forced to keep an aiming mark on a target all the time during a flight, even such a “difficult” is very, very unpleasant.
      But after the rocket leaves the field of view of the optical coordinator (the hand trembled at the pilot or the operator), the guidance definitely breaks down, the missile is not “caught” the second time
      1. Bongo
        8 December 2017 15: 26 New
        +7
        Quote: Spade
        But after the rocket leaves the field of view of the optical coordinator (the hand trembled at the pilot or the operator), the guidance definitely breaks down, the missile is not “caught” the second time

        That is why in the USA they developed the AGM-114 Hellfire with a radar seeker and a laser version with the ability to re-capture the target. In general, it must be understood that the main objective of air defense is not the destruction of air attack weapons, but the protection of covered objects. If an air strike is foiled, even in the absence of downed enemy aircraft, then this is already a success.
    2. Bongo
      8 December 2017 14: 55 New
      +4
      Quote: KKND
      You can find out where the naive "Pinnocio" Americans counted on this?

      Cyril, actually it’s written about the Israelis.
      Quote: KKND
      From 3 km, getting from Shilka will be extremely difficult.

      The probability of defeat from such a distance is indicated in the publication. In the past, you read more carefully. Not from the phone again? what
      1. KKND
        KKND 8 December 2017 14: 59 New
        +2
        Quote: Bongo
        The probability of defeat from such a distance is indicated in the publication. In the past, you read more carefully. Not from the phone again?

        Not I read carefully, doubt about such a high probability.
        In general, the article came out great, I'm just trying to "find fault".
        1. Bongo
          8 December 2017 15: 09 New
          +4
          Quote: KKND
          Not I read carefully, doubt about such a high probability.

          This is confirmed by firing at the firing range and calculations.
          Quote: KKND
          In general, the article came out great, I'm just trying to "find fault".

          I'm not against... wink
        2. Mikado
          Mikado 8 December 2017 16: 39 New
          +4
          I'm just trying to "find fault".

          gracious this thing .. wink drinks
          dear Bongo - thanks for the cycle! hi
          1. Bongo
            8 December 2017 16: 49 New
            +3
            Quote: Mikado
            dear Bongo - thanks for the cycle!

            Thank you! drinks
            Quote: Mikado
            gracious this thing ..

            Not mistaken, only the one who does nothing! Anyway, I'm always open to constructive critics.
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 8 December 2017 21: 17 New
              +2
              Not mistaken, only the one who does nothing! In any case, I am always open to constructive criticism.

              in this case, it is clearly superfluous. The work done is huge and it feels hi
  8. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 8 December 2017 13: 30 New
    +3
    Strela-2 MANPADS were used in Vietnam ... According to the information that I met, Strela-2M MANPADS were delivered to North Vietnam (DRV) after the defeat of the Saigon regime and therefore could not be used in the “Vietnam” war .. . But "Arrow-2M" could be used by the Vietnamese at the end of the 70's ... in local conflicts with their neighbors ...
    1. Bongo
      8 December 2017 15: 00 New
      +7
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      In Vietnam, MANPADS "Strela-2" were used ...

      Strela-2 and Strela-2М were produced in parallel and both versions were delivered to the DRV. “Strela-2M” I had a chance to learn is not the easiest weapon to use, as is commonly believed among ordinary people. hi
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 8 December 2017 17: 22 New
        +3
        The Strela-2 MANPADS were adopted in 1968. The Strela-2 MANPADS-in the 1970. Approximately, the Strela-2 MANPADS were delivered to the Vietnamese in the 1970. Approximately, in the 1971-m, the “arrows” appeared in South Vietnam and Laos. Ash-stump, which in the beginning was used precisely MANPADS "Strela-2". In subsequent descriptions of the use of MANPADS in Vietnam, only “Strela-2” is mentioned ... But it is understandable that “Strela-2M” could be “hidden” there. But I cannot so easily ignore the once read article, which said that Arrow-2M was delivered to Vietnam in the 70's after the defeat of the Saigon regime. I’ll try to find a “confirmation or refutation”!
  9. Bongo
    8 December 2017 15: 08 New
    +6
    KKND,
    Quote: KKND
    Now you won’t count ...

    Approximately possible, but the point ... request
    Quote: KKND
    Well, "radars" are better than yachts, definitely.

    Definitely! yes
    Quote: KKND
    Oh, why didn’t strategic enterprises give up to “private owners” under Brezhnev?

    Ideology went ahead of common sense. I remember very well how, in order to get the next rank and position, people without fail joined the party when the Komsomol age was coming to an end.
    Quote: KKND
    Eh, why do not our "oligarchs" invest in production?

    In the extractive industries working for export minimally invested. But in general, do they need it? no They do not connect their future with Russia.
    Quote: KKND
    Oh, what to do?

    Change the power and system of government. I would like bloodless ... but not the fact that it will work out. crying
    1. KKND
      KKND 8 December 2017 15: 17 New
      +6
      Quote: Bongo
      Change the power and system of government. I would like bloodless ... but not the fact that it will work out.

      I agree with everything, but I would like to add hope for power, but I’m not "bad". The qualification level of our “specialists” is extremely low, and there were such talented designers under the USSR (father says).
      And now, young people (including myself), know nothing at all, except for happy exceptions.
      My father works in the defense industry, even though in the USSR there was a "dumb" designer, there was almost a "leader" there.
      My father’s son (I) is dumb like a cork.
      How to restore Russia with such a population is not clear.
      So write and educate.
      P.S. Yes, and in the "jungle" also need to climb IMHO.
  10. shuravi
    shuravi 8 December 2017 15: 11 New
    +8
    1. The method of pointing the mentioned ATGMs in addition to the “Hellfire” is called telecontrol, or the three-point method, regardless of whether the ATGM is manually held on the line of sight, or manually.
    2. The main disadvantage of wired ATGMs is that they very much limit the carrier in the maneuver. Ideal conditions for starting from hover mode.
    3. The long presence of wired ATGMs in the arsenal of NATO countries led to the fact that there, unlike the USSR, the main way was to start from the hover mode.
    4. The two-bladed main rotor, which is extremely convenient in ground operation, has a much higher level of vibration and is extremely dangerous during vigorous piloting.
    1. KKND
      KKND 8 December 2017 15: 39 New
      +4
      Quote: shuravi
      3. The long presence of wired ATGMs in the arsenal of NATO countries led to the fact that there, unlike the USSR, the main way was to start from the hover mode.

      Interesting observation. THX.
      1. shuravi
        shuravi 8 December 2017 17: 26 New
        +4
        It has long been known that weapons affect tactics, and tactics affect the development of weapons.
        In general, the most difficult thing when working with ATGMs is for the operator-pilot to see the target in the field of view of the guidance device.
        1. KKND
          KKND 8 December 2017 17: 37 New
          +1
          Quote: shuravi
          It has long been known that weapons affect tactics, and tactics affect the development of weapons

          Moreover, if something else can be found about the armament model on the Internet, then the tactics are not covered from the word at all.
          1. shuravi
            shuravi 8 December 2017 18: 01 New
            +2
            Worst of all, it is often illuminated in a distorted form. That is, it is deliberately distorted to please arms manufacturers.
            Take, for example, the thesis that the solid front line has become a thing of the past, that future wars will be patchwork and focal in nature, and so on.
            True, none of these "strategists" did not answer how to use the same tanks in such conditions. They simply hide from them, and the "unsurpassed" AN-64 will find them for ten kilometers and destroy them. laughing
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 8 December 2017 19: 23 New
              +4
              Quote: shuravi
              True, none of these "strategists" did not answer how to use the same tanks in such conditions

              Nothing complicated. Tank units - as part of combined arms, in marching, pre-battle or battle formations.

              Quote: shuravi
              the front line is a thing of the past that future wars will have a patchwork-focal character

              So it will be. And the main form of hostilities will be the oncoming battle. The theme of which has been very, very worked out both by us and by the NATO. Attempts to defend “not a step back” will lead to the same results as the Iraqis. Including thanks to helicopters with anti-aircraft complexes.
              1. shuravi
                shuravi 8 December 2017 20: 08 New
                0
                Quote: Spade

                Nothing complicated. Tank units - as part of combined arms, in marching, pre-battle or battle formations.


                Sorry, but what you said is just nonsense. A set of unrelated terms. laughing


                So it will be. And the main form of hostilities will be the oncoming battle. The theme of which has been very, very worked out both by us and by the NATO.


                I will probably tell you a big secret, but the strategy of the so-called active defense was developed in the USSR in the thirties. hi


                Attempts to defend “not a step back” will lead to the same results as the Iraqis. Including thanks to helicopters with anti-aircraft complexes.


                Judging by your speeches, you have not studied the tactics. I will not go deep into the jungle why the troops in one case or another go on the defensive, I note only there is no greater stupidity than using combat helicopters against a well-organized defense.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 8 December 2017 21: 06 New
                  +3
                  Quote: shuravi
                  Sorry, but what you said is just nonsense. A set of unrelated terms.

                  So write, “I don’t know the combined-arms tactics, therefore everything written seems to me a balcony”
                  8)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
                  Although, in principle, this should be clear even for sofa tactics ...

                  Quote: shuravi
                  I will probably tell you a big secret, but the strategy of the so-called active defense was developed in the USSR in the thirties.

                  It seems that you are not particularly in the subject ... "Active Defense Strategy" has not been developed to this day. This has always been a tactic.

                  Quote: shuravi
                  Judging by your speeches, you have not studied the tactics. I will not go deep into the jungle why the troops in one case or another go on the defensive, I note only there is no greater stupidity than using combat helicopters against a well-organized defense.

                  It is good for the Americans that they did not hear the Great Revelations From the Great Strategist. Therefore, they used. And they raped the Iraqis as they wanted.

                  Judging by your speeches, you have not studied the tactics. I will not delve into the wilds, you still do not understand. But one of the tasks of artillery since the Second World War is the destruction and suppression of military air defense systems.
                  Well, with regard to combat helicopters, only for couch tactics like you, they are like spherical horses in a vacuum, they fight as they want. In real life, they are just a small screw in a large system of fire impact on the enemy.
                  1. shuravi
                    shuravi 8 December 2017 21: 18 New
                    0
                    Quote: Spade

                    So write, “I don’t know the combined-arms tactics, therefore everything written seems to me a balcony”
                    8)))))))))))))))))))))))))))


                    Why dont know? I know. That's why I say, you are raving.

                    Although, in principle, this should be clear even for sofa tactics ...


                    As you can see, I’m not a sofa tactician, unlike you. hi
                    http://artofwar.ru/l/lisowoj_w_i/



                    It seems that you are not particularly in the subject ... "Active Defense Strategy" has not been developed to this day. This has always been a tactic.


                    You are definitely raving. laughing


                    It is good for the Americans that they did not hear the Great Revelations From the Great Strategist. Therefore, they used. And they raped the Iraqis as they wanted.


                    Well, of course. With such an overwhelming superiority of the Americans, the Iraqis had no chance.

                    Judging by your speeches, you have not studied the tactics. I will not delve into the wilds, you still do not understand. But one of the tasks of artillery since the Second World War is the destruction and suppression of military air defense systems.


                    Have I argued somewhere like that? This is you raving. By the way, enemy air defense is suppressed by all possible means.

                    Well, with regard to combat helicopters, only for couch tactics like you, they are like spherical horses in a vacuum, they fight as they want. In real life, they are just a small screw in a large system of fire impact on the enemy.


                    In real life, you’re a couch strategist, and I’m a combat helicopter pilot. Although now in stock. hi
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                    2. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 9 December 2017 08: 48 New
                      +3
                      Quote: shuravi
                      How do you love to lie. Where did I say that?

                      And where did the whole argument begin?
                      Quote: shuravi
                      I’m just saying that tanks are used in conjunction with other types of troops and forces. So without a front line in any way.

                      N-yes ... I don’t even know how to react to this. Birds fly, and therefore you can’t do without a sextant ...
                      Quote: shuravi
                      Where did you find a well-organized defense among the Iraqis?

                      You also don’t know history ... It was organized perfectly with them.

                      Quote: shuravi
                      Yes, and that, not carried out by helicopters.

                      Including combat helicopters. I originally wrote that they were one of the tools. And not the only one.

                      Quote: shuravi
                      And then what to do, since you deny the defense as such?

                      Oh, again your ignorance of tactics pops up. Elements of defensive action are present even during a clean attack. For example, when repelling enemy counterattacks.
                      When I encounter a fight, I don’t even say ... The weak side should always occupy defense at a profitable line.

                      Quote: shuravi
                      It is not difficult having the Internet at hand.

                      But you have it. But you don’t know the difference.

                      Quote: shuravi
                      I've brought my data, I can repeat it.

                      But I didn’t dig my data for the sake of boasting. Moreover, my possible bloodlines are still alive.
                      1. shuravi
                        shuravi 9 December 2017 11: 33 New
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        Quote: shuravi
                        How do you love to lie. Where did I say that?

                        And where did the whole argument begin?

                        That is, you admitted that you lied. Clear.


                        N-yes ... I don’t even know how to react to this. Birds fly, and therefore you can’t do without a sextant ...


                        It is already noticeable that you do not know anything.

                        You also don’t know history ... It was organized perfectly with them.


                        Who, the Iraqis? laughing A young man, well-organized defense, this is not the Maginot line and the like. This is primarily the arrangement of their own forces and means so that when the enemy breaks into the forehead, bypasses from the flanks, transfers active actions to another sector, his losses are many times greater than the losses of the defenders. Thus forcing him to abandon active actions.
                        Among other things, not to mention separation, it is not enough to occupy key points, equip positions, etc. You also need to have mobile forces to liquidate breakthroughs and organize counterattacks.
                        In addition, one of the most important components of defense is air defense, both military and territorial, which also line up along the lines, otherwise they are worthless.
                        Also, a small role in defense is played by aviation and missile forces. Whose task is to destroy enemy forces both in the front line and in the rear.
                        Did the Iraqis have anything? Yes here nifiga. The maximum that they were able to do was divert part of the forces of the Americans to street battles in several cities.

                        Including combat helicopters. I originally wrote that they were one of the tools. And not the only one.


                        It is funny to read when the couch strategist sets out to the helicopter pilot his "thoughts" about the place of combat helicopters on the battlefield. laughing

                        Oh, again your ignorance of tactics pops up. Elements of defensive action are present even during a clean attack. For example, when repelling enemy counterattacks.
                        When I encounter a fight, I don’t even say ... The weak side should always occupy defense at a profitable line.


                        Exactly what YOUR ignorance of tactics is. Every time you pinch your nose, you try to translate the arrows.


                        But you have it. But you don’t know the difference.


                        So I just know, but the Internet did not help you either. bully


                        But I didn’t dig my data for the sake of boasting. Moreover, my possible bloodlines are still alive.


                        In other words, you have nothing to brag about. You are a simple couch strategist. And this is noticeable, no matter how you try to lie and puff out your cheeks. hi
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 9 December 2017 10: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: shuravi
      2. The main disadvantage of wired ATGMs is that they very much limit the carrier in the maneuver. Ideal conditions for starting from hover mode.
      3. The long presence of wired ATGMs in the arsenal of NATO countries led to the fact that there, unlike the USSR, the main way was to start from the hover mode.

      You noted it very correctly! Everyone somehow "forgot" about it! If you "read" the descriptions (characteristics) of the TOUR, then there is an indispensable condition is the possibility of hitting helicopters in the "hanging" mode .... and not only the TOUR! If in the technical specifications (for example, portable, self-propelled anti-tank systems) there was a mention of the possibility of hitting “hovering” helicopters, then the weapon was “considered good” and it had to be adopted.
      1. shuravi
        shuravi 9 December 2017 12: 39 New
        +1
        Quote: Nikolaevich I

        You noted it very correctly! Everyone somehow "forgot" about it! If you "read" the descriptions (characteristics) of the TOUR, then there is an indispensable condition is the possibility of hitting helicopters in the "hanging" mode .... and not only the TOUR! If in the technical specifications (for example, portable, self-propelled anti-tank systems) there was a mention of the possibility of hitting “hovering” helicopters, then the weapon was “considered good” and it had to be adopted.


        That's it. The fact is that a helicopter at a speed of 150 km / h and lower is no longer a combat unit, but an easy target. Which is already affected not only by regular air defense systems, but also by small arms, RPGs and so on. In most cases, in Afghanistan and in Chechnya, the defeat of helicopters was carried out precisely at hovering and low speeds. When the helicopter is very limited in maneuver.
        The use of terrain, folds of terrain, natural and artificial shelters, sounds beautiful and alluring. But as practice has shown, these very shelters, even in rough terrain, are not so easy to find to meet the necessary requirements.
        Take the same AN-64 "long bow". Perhaps against the "Papuans" he is strong. But in a confrontation with an equal opponent, its value tends to zero.
        After all, as I already said, there are not so many shelters. And nothing prevents to conduct remote anti-helicopter mining. This is the time.
        In addition, finding a target on the ground is more difficult for a helicopter and it takes more time than finding a helicopter in the sky.
        And to find a helicopter with a radar, as they say, is easier than a steamed turnip. Such helicopters will also be effective ... well, imagine, if you hang a lantern on your forehead and go at night to catch partisans in the forest, do you get a lot of fun?
        And the fact that the AN-64 claim the range of new ATGMs already 14 km, not salvation. A package of shells with remote operation of the same MLRS Grad, guaranteed to eliminate the detected threat. Cheap and cheerful. When compared with the price of AN-64.
        Therefore, although we provide for the possibility of launching anti-tank missile launchers from hovering, in practice this is not practiced.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 9 December 2017 13: 18 New
          +2
          Not all the conclusions in your comment are “unambiguous,” but in many ways you can agree ... but actually, it’s better to talk about this in a separate topic: ... such as “Improving (changing) the tactics of using anti-tank (combat) helicopters for last half a century "... or:" The impact of changes in the nature of the conduct of hostilities of ground forces on the tactics of combat operations of helicopter units "... etc. hi
  11. AlexanderBrv
    AlexanderBrv 8 December 2017 18: 24 New
    +4
    Thanks to the author! An interesting and fairly capacious article.
  12. exo
    exo 8 December 2017 18: 32 New
    +3
    Cobra and Mi-24-do not age old veterans. What a potential! Thanks for the next interesting part.
  13. Professor
    Professor 8 December 2017 19: 10 New
    +2
    At the end of the 2013 year, due to budgetary restrictions, Israel wrote off the remaining three dozen combat “Cobras” that were in service, their functions were assigned to two squadrons of AH-64 Apache.

    Nat. The Cobras were written off not because of a lack of money, but because of their severe deterioration in frequent accidents. Their functions were transferred not to the Apache, but to the drones.
    1. Bongo
      9 December 2017 00: 54 New
      +2
      Quote: Professor
      Nat. The Cobras were written off not because of a lack of money, but because of their severe deterioration in frequent accidents. Their functions were transferred not to the Apache, but to the drones.

      Oleg, welcome!
      "Cobras" in Israel, of course, were "seasoned", but still quite capable. You will not deny that after the repair most of them fly to other countries.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 9 December 2017 08: 53 New
        +1
        Quote: Bongo
        You will not deny that after the repair most of them fly to other countries.

        They stayed in Israel. And the units that used them are disbanded. There were only those that were on the Apaches. In the same amount. That is, neither rearmament, nor the creation of new ones on the Apaches happened.
        So yes, the “responsibilities” of “Cobra” were not assigned to Apaches
      2. Professor
        Professor 9 December 2017 08: 57 New
        0
        Quote: Bongo
        Quote: Professor
        Nat. The Cobras were written off not because of a lack of money, but because of their severe deterioration in frequent accidents. Their functions were transferred not to the Apache, but to the drones.

        Oleg, welcome!
        "Cobras" in Israel, of course, were "seasoned", but still quite capable. You will not deny that after the repair most of them fly to other countries.

        Israel has different technical requirements. Decommissioned equipment in Israel is almost always sold to other countries. Where is she still in the ranks for many years. Well, you know.
        On Cobra, people began to die, including one general. After another accident, they landed, and then presented to Jordan (due to budgetary restrictions in Israel?). Their niche was occupied not by Apaches, but by drones. They are now the workhorse and in 90% of cases they extinguish the bearded. I uploaded a movie from YouTube (in Hebrew).
  14. Lopatov
    Lopatov 9 December 2017 12: 36 New
    +2
    Quote: shuravi
    That is, you admitted that you lied. Clear.

    The logic is purely female 8)))) "I do not like the hairstyle of my girlfriend, so you do not love me ..."
    Fact: You stated that "True, none of these" strategists "has ever answered how to use the same tanks under such conditions." (c) Although in fact it is you who do not know what place in battle order is determined for tanks. What can be easily learned from the same Combat Manual or the green book "Tactics". Which apparently you are unknown.
    Note that you stated this yourself, and I did not ascribe it to you, therefore the cries of "you lied" can be regarded only as an attempt to transfer to individuals due to a lack of knowledge in the subject of the dispute.



    Quote: shuravi
    It is already noticeable that you do not know anything.

    I don’t know how to react to the next manifestation of your “logic”.
    It's just enchanting. "tanks are used in conjunction with other branches of the armed forces and forces. And so without a front line in any way." That is, if, for example, a tank brigade broke out into the operational space, entering a breakthrough, and moving forward, knocking down the enemy’s barriers, does it urgently need to stop? To enable the enemy to create the notorious "front line", otherwise this tank brigade will not be able to interact with other military branches ?????
    Damn, do you ever think about what to write. The presence of a front is also consistent with the presence of interaction, as the presence of wings in birds with the presence of a sextant. There should even be enough tactical knowledge of the sofa.



    Quote: shuravi
    Who, the Iraqis?

    The Iraqis. Do you even try to understand the issue, or somehow even ashamed of you. Militant amateurism - it looks unpleasant.

    Quote: shuravi
    It is funny to read when the couch strategist sets out to the helicopter pilot his "thoughts" about the place of combat helicopters on the battlefield.

    Where did you manage to find it? Again female logic?
    I pointed out to you that the defense of the Iraqis was carried out, including with the help of combat helicopters. This is a reinforced concrete fact.
    Where you managed to pick out "" thoughts "about the place of combat helicopters on the battlefield" (c) I do not know. 8)))))))))))))))))))))))

    Quote: shuravi
    Exactly what YOUR ignorance of tactics is. Every time you pinch your nose, you try to translate the arrows.

    Well yes. I attributed to you the unfounded statement “you deny the defense as such” (c). In fact, I made you write this 8)))))))))))
    Well, what about the mythical "pinching" ... You generally know that the classic three-trench defense with a pronounced front line is just a special case of defense, and by the end of World War II it was a very rare occurrence. You can even look at the battles under Lake Balaton. You again fail a deep ignorance of history

    Quote: shuravi
    So I just know

    What do you know? About the "Active Defense Strategy" ??? Which cannot exist in principle. For the strategy of action is to exhaust and bleed the enemy before he collides with the main forces. And active defense tactics are just one of the methods achieve this.
    Damn, all you need is to go into any search engine and read about the difference between strategy and tactics. But you are so confident in your strategic genius and gigantic knowledge that even this was not done 8)))))))))))))))))))))

    Quote: shuravi
    In other words, you have nothing to brag about.

    Exactly.
    In general, adequate people do not boast of such.
    And I, damn it, have never met a person who actually participated in the hostilities, and really flew well, who would fall to such boasting as you ...
    Therefore, I have very big suspicions about you ...
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