Military Review

Sealed screen

227



Somehow imperceptibly for our state, the significant date of the centenary of the October revolution passed. We did not see the fireworks over Moscow, as in our time, we did not hear the Aurora shots in Petrograd and the solemn speeches from the Kremlin, the Federation Council or the State Duma. A march in honor of the 76 anniversary of the 7 parade of November 1941 took place on Red Square. Only more and more often they are silent about the fact that the world-shaking event in front-line Moscow was dedicated to the 24 anniversary of the Great October Revolution. New "white spot" in stories Fatherland tried to eliminate Russian television, showing several historical, artistic and documentary films. Among them, a special place is occupied by the advertised "Demon of the Revolution."

The series of three films tells about the times when Europe is seized by the First World War, and changes are ripening in tsarist Russia. The main plot revolves around Alexander Parvus (the real name and surname is Israel Gelfand). He plays Fedor Bondarchuk. In March 1915 of the year, this is a historical fact, Parvus offered the German government a detailed plan for organizing a revolution in Russia, known as the “Memorandum of Dr. Gelfand”. It was proposed to organize strikes, undermine bridges, set fire to oil wells and commit other terrorist acts. For this, Parvus personally developed clear instructions. The key role was assigned to the Bolsheviks. The German government in the person of the State Secretary of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs G. von Yagov allocates funds for the revolution, and also organizes the return of Lenin from Switzerland to Russia. This will be the catalyst for subsequent events.

Obsessed with "demons"

Essentially, the talk in the series is that Lenin (Evgeny Mironov) turned out to be a bargaining figure. Germany needed to quickly end the war, which did not promise anything good. And they kind of sent Vladimir Ilyich with the assistance of Parvus to Russia, in order to carry out the October revolution, and then leave with the world. And if so, a conspiratorial version of the “sealed wagon” and its mysterious passenger Ulyanov, who returns home with a revolution on German money, immediately appears.

In this scenario, it is strange to expect an objective assessment of the personality of Lenin and the revolution. It will be exactly the opposite. It is clear that not everyone likes Lenin and his ideas. But why so abuse the “memoirs” of Tsarist counterintelligence officer Alexei Mezentsev, who by definition cannot be objective in relation to the events taking place? The question is natural: did the production director Vladimir Khotinenko and the group of authors study the history of a century ago so deeply as Yevgeny Mironov assures us in his interviews?

Meanwhile, there are memories of the Swiss Social Democrat Fritz Platten. In the West, he is called "the man who brought Lenin to Russia." In addition to the author's presentation of the history of the organization and implementation of the relocation of a group of Russian political émigrés headed by Ulyanov from Switzerland through Germany to Russia, the book includes a number of documents relating to this case and the memories of the participants.

Numerous rumors surrounding this fact, actively supported by Russian bourgeois newspapers, appeared as early as 1917. The Bolsheviks were accused of all sorts of crimes, starting with an agreement with the government of enemy Germany and ending with allegations of espionage in her favor or of financing William II of all the revolutionary activities of the RSDLP (b). The flurry of gossip was so strong that it overwhelmed the borders of the belligerent countries and reached Switzerland, where Platten, as a confidant of the “German spy,” was simply poisoned. And he officially demanded that the leadership of the Swiss Social Democratic Party refute the slander and confirm his innocence to any secret agreements with the German side, which was done by a special decision.

Parvus and Platten

Readers of the book "Lenin from emigration to Russia. March 1917 received first-hand information. Fritz Platten accompanied Vladimir Ilyich and his comrades to the Russian border, having traveled all the way in the famous “sealed train”. It seems natural that he, a prominent Swiss Communist, a talented writer, undertook the mission to write a book about the return of Lenin and his associates to Petrograd.

Platten did the hard work of collecting evidence. Finding documents on the negotiations with the German envoy in Bern, Baron von Romberg, was not a big deal, since the discussion of the possibility of relocating emigrants to Russia was conducted quite openly. True, even then Lenin assumed that the most contradictory rumors would arise around this question. That is why he secured a special statement from foreign socialists, who testified that the only way to return from emigration in the spring of 1917 of the year could be only through Germany. All these documents and materials are listed in the book by Platten. He also explained in detail how the Provisional Government managed to neutralize the attempts of revolutionaries to come to Russia through the countries of the Entente - England and France.

Platten paid much attention to analyzing the “spy” rumors that had already arisen in 1917. In particular, he also studied the role played by the aforementioned Parvus, an adventurer whom the authors of the film “The Demon of the Revolution” tried to return from oblivion and a century later, to make him famous among the broad masses. I quote Platten: “In the“ spy ”revelations, the name of Parvus was constantly mentioned, who repeatedly offered cooperation and money to the Bolsheviks, beginning with the 1915 year, and each time received a decisive refusal of Lenin. In March, 1917, having learned that Lenin feverishly was looking for any opportunity to return to Russia, Parvus immediately appeared on the horizon. Through intermediaries, he offered to bring V.I. Lenin and G.Ye. Zinoviev to Berlin and give money for travel. Realizing who was behind the "well-wishers," Lenin categorically refused. Parvus did not leave attempts to meet with Lenin even during the move, and he showed such intrusiveness that Lenin even had to record his refusal to meet with him on March 9 in Stockholm. ”

A large amount of factual material and numerous documents allowed Platten to reasonably prove that the Bolsheviks and Lenin personally were not involved in any ties with German intelligence. It was very useful for many that the author, preparing the first edition, did not confine his own thoughts about the events of the spring of 1917 and the analysis of documents, but gave some fundamentally important materials in the annex to the book. Among them are the “Protocol on the passage of Lenin through Germany in 1917” and documents on the activities of R. Grimm, who took part in the preparation of the evacuation of Russian revolutionaries to their homeland and therefore was accused of activities in the interests of Berlin. These materials not only complement Platten's work, but also allow the reader to independently study the details of a complex political game that began around the passage of Lenin and his satellites through Germany. The documents clearly trace the attempt of the total compromise of the Bolsheviks by the Russian bourgeois parties and the Provisional Government, which ultimately failed, although its echoes are heard to this day. To the great chagrin, they appeared today in the domestic cinema.

Platten's book was published in 1925 in Berlin in German and was almost immediately published in Russian by the Moscow Worker Edition of 10 in thousands of copies. Unfortunately, it turned out to be hidden in a special fund, where it lay for more than 60 years, being inaccessible to the general reader.

Why did she suffer such a fate? The book mentions the names of the "enemies of the people" - Trotsky, Zinoviev, Radek and others. Moreover, the appendix contains memoirs of G. E. Zinoviev, K. B. Radek, Ya. S. Ganetsky, telling about some of the details of the journey in a “sealed wagon”. And the author of the book, Fritz Platten, one of the organizers of that trip, did not avoid being counted among the “enemies of the people”, he was serving five years in a camp in the Arkhangelsk region and died before the end of his sentence. Ironically, this happened on Lenin's birthday - 22 April 1942.

Or was Platten himself an agent of foreign intelligence? This question was asked by Stalinist investigators. Platten followed Lenin to Russia, shut him down with his body during the attempted assault on 1918 in January, and was wounded. As a token of gratitude, Krupskaya presented Platten Browning with the dedication "For the salvation of our Ilyich." It is for illegal storage weaponsand not for work on foreign intelligence was served by a Swiss Communist.

In his homeland, in a report shown in 2014, television journalists elevated Platten to the rank of a romantic revolutionary, a champion of a socialist state and proportional representation, who deserved greater fame. At the same time in Switzerland, the documentary “Red Fritz. The era of revolution and the fate of Fritz Platten, directed by Helen Shtelee Pfister. The idea clearly passes through the tape: deciding to go through Germany that had fought with Russia, Lenin and his associates understood perfectly well that enemies would take advantage of this to portray them as traitors, agents of Wilhelm, etc. It is emphasized that it was Fritz Platten’s private initiative, nothing in common not having collusion with Germany. He met Lenin at the international conference of socialists in Zimmerwald in 1915, and when he, after the overthrow of the king asked Platten to negotiate with the Germans, felt “deeply obliged” to Ilyich.

Departure subscription

Having accepted the proposal of the Bolsheviks about the organization of their move through Germany, Platten appealed to the German envoy in Switzerland and presented him with the following written conditions:

“1. I, Fritz Platten, take a wagon with political immigrants and legal persons wishing to travel to Russia via Germany under my full and unceasing personal responsibility.

2. Only the Platten is being demolished with the German authorities, without whose permission no one can get into the car locked up during the whole journey. The car is given the right to extraterritoriality.

3. There should be no checks on papers or persons either upon entering or leaving Germany.

4. Persons are admitted to the wagon with absolutely no distinction between their political direction and their relationship to issues of war and peace.

5. Everyone traveling issues tickets to Platten at the normal fare.

6. As far as possible, travel must occur without interruption, by direct communication. Without the technical necessity of a break in the journey can not be. It is impossible to leave the carriage not by any order, nor on one’s own initiative.

7. Permission to travel is given on the basis of the exchange of riding on German and Austrian prisoners of war and interned in Russia.

8. The facilitator and those traveling undertake to act in society and especially among the workers in the direction that this postulate will be implemented.

9. If possible, the nearest departure time from the Swiss border to the Swedish one, as well as technical details (luggage, etc.) are established immediately. ”

Two days later, Platten received a reply stating that his conditions were accepted, as reported by the departing persons, who by their personal signature confirmed that they had communicated the results of Platten’s negotiations with the German embassy to them, that they knew the threats of the Provisional Government, that they fully obeyed during the trip all orders of the head of Platten’s trip.

In the group of emigrants who returned home with Lenin, from 32 people were 19 Bolsheviks (N.K. Krupskaya, G.E. Zinoviev, I.F. Armand, D.S. Suliashvili, M.Tschakaya, G.A. Usievich et al.), Six Bundists and three supporters of the Parisian international newspaper Nashe Slovo. With great difficulty, those who had driven away raised money for the fare. Platten later recalled: “The money in which we, as enemies slandered, drowned, we had absolutely no. At the last minute, we would not have been able to redeem edible supplies if the board of the Swiss party had not opened a loan for us at 3000 fr. under the guarantee of Lang and Platten ". The help of the Swiss and Swedish socialists and the modest sum sent by the Central Committee of the RSDLP (b) made it possible to ensure the passage of Russian emigrants to their homeland.
Author:
Originator:
https://vpk-news.ru/articles/40150
227 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. 210ox
    210ox 3 December 2017 06: 25
    16
    I watched this film .... The figure of Parvus is certainly interesting. That's just it. Lenin himself .... And they are not trying to forget him, but they also remember less and less about the parade on November 7, 1941. By the way, young people are already talking about Lenin and they don’t know .. This is a PROBLEM .. But not a series that I didn’t like.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 3 December 2017 06: 49
      24
      In the fantastic works of writers of the 20th century from different countries, such a plot was sometimes found ---- society uses the remnants of the technical goods of the previous civilization, not being able to repair them in case of malfunction. And there is no knowledge about their ancestors --- only fragmentary information and various versions. If we could say then that this is the Russian Federation in the near future ---- no one would have believed it.
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 3 December 2017 11: 12
        14
        Today, lies are purposefully introduced by such controversial information, but always with publication, the publication is referenced at the next lie, etc. . Today there are quite a few * scientific * works with such evidence. And if all this receives state support and funding, then the result will not be long.
        Argumentation - * this is common knowledge *, replaces documents and eyewitness accounts.
        And about the repressed - today the patriots of RUSSIA say a lot of things and offer. Won Chubais declares patriotism or Chichvarkin or Khakamada, but how many patriots in RUSSIA? But just what to do with them in the context of an approaching war, but during a real war? The Chubais team out of well-intentioned turned off military facilities.
      2. antivirus
        antivirus 3 December 2017 12: 08
        14
        have the director-producer Vladimir Khotinenko and the team of authors studied the history of a hundred years ago, as Yevgeny Mironov assures us in his interviews?
        RESPONSE TO FIGURES:
        antivirus 1 Today, 10:11 | Battle of Bucharest
        Sometimes I read about WWI and look at the photos of the "noblest" generals.
        And: a father from 30 years old remembered- "grandfather (my great-grandfather) said:" here we are in the first imperialist .. "and so on (father did not remember or said something empty?)
        Only one episode ----
        IMPORTANT --- REASON FOR THE GREAT OCTOBER SOCIALIST REVOLUTION-
        great-grandfather served as a batman under the officer. serves coffee in bed. "Ivan, I told you how many times I told you. What is needed with the foam." Razz-zzz on the teeth of his great-grandfather. "Go do as taught."
        He went out the door, spat in the cup, shook his finger and handed it again. "That's the way to do it"
        In this spit, the reason for the defeat in the WWI and the destruction of the Ros Empire and its army. Tired of enduring dentists, not re-educated officer A, turned out to be. and the whole nobility
        maybe the reason is dentition?
        27g
        LET THE NUMBER OF TEACHERS LOOK, NOT THE REPORTS 'REPORTS.
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 3 December 2017 17: 40
          16
          If we look at the Civil War, we can find that the whites had two principles that they necessarily restored in the territories they occupied: social inequality and freedom of trade, which meant freedom to profit and rob the population during the war. It is to the liking of the current masters of life.
          Those who were in exile were simply thrown out of the country and, accordingly, had no effect on her life. Therefore, it is interesting that many of today's white advocates are mostly descendants of the Reds, who suddenly imagined themselves gentlemen.

          Their grandfathers and great-grandfathers at one time established Soviet power, and they forgot about this and are engaged in the propaganda of anti-Soviet.
          Those people who were patriots of their country, they just tried not to harm her. But some of them, in order to fight the Bolsheviks, were ready to serve even Hitler, at least anyone. And there were quite a few, including here.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 4 December 2017 03: 20
            +3
            Therefore, it is interesting that many of today's white advocates are mostly descendants of the Reds, who suddenly imagined themselves gentlemen.

            If you count how many got into special migrants, like fists, how many were “repressed” under Art. 58 part of 1-18, then among those whose ancestors were “red” and lived to a natural end, descendants with anti-Soviet views, there will be a minuscule. Still, others hate the Soviet regime.
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 4 December 2017 12: 31
              +3
              Quote: avva2012
              hated, however, by others.

              Yes, those who stayed out, those who kept a muzzle in their pocket all their lives, those who have Trotskyites, Krasnivtsi and others in their ancestors, now is their time ..
            2. Rastas
              Rastas 4 December 2017 21: 06
              +7
              My grandfather was impunited, but the Soviet government always considered his own. And not by force, as some liberals now explain by genetic slavery, but by understanding the inevitability of the process taking place in the country.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 4 December 2017 21: 24
                +7
                Quote: Rastas
                My grandfather was impunited, but the Soviet government always considered his own. And not by force, as some liberals now explain by genetic slavery, but by understanding the inevitability of the process taking place in the country.

                Such a person is worthy of respect. He rose above his personal grievances, did not harbor evil and reacted with understanding to the construction of a new society, because there are always some costs when building a new, unknown and great one.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 4 December 2017 12: 52
            0
            Why suddenly those whose ancestors established the Soviet Authority felt on the other side? Probably some founder wrote, one hundred if there is a slogan “PROLETARIES OF ALL COUNTRIES ---- UNITE!”, They did not want to unite with the proletarians, but quite the contrary. As in the Civil, it happened, relatives on different sides. So now ----- great-grandchildren against great-grandfathers, grandchildren against grandfathers!
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 4 December 2017 16: 25
              +5
              Quote: Reptiloid
              So now ----- great-grandchildren against great-grandfathers, grandchildren against grandfathers!

              When I ask some people what your claims are to the past, you have relatives from princes, counts, merchants, I often hear unimaginable turbidity - all the ancestors from the most cluttered layers at that time, only during the Union they were pulled to the light, and you , grimly and stupidly sniff something on the side of those who sat on their neck.
              Remember how Nekrasov?
              Mr. Polivanov was cruel;
              The daughter of the married husband
              Carved - both drove naked,
              In the teeth of a serf approximate,
              Jacob the Faithful,
              Walking like a heel.

              People of the servile rank -
              Real dogs sometimes:
              The heavier the punishment
              So gentlemen gentlemen.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 5 December 2017 05: 22
                +1
                Quote: badens1111
                When I ask some people what your claims are to the past, you have relatives from princes, counts, merchants, I often hear unimaginable turbidity — all the ancestors from the most cluttered layers at that time, only during the Union they were pulled to the light, and you , grimly and stupidly sniff something on the side of those who sat on their neck. People of the servile rank -
                Real dogs sometimes:
                The heavier the punishment
                So gentlemen gentlemen.
                I heard that ““ they, too, were worried about Russia and suffered. ”“ Once I was stunned, because he was a very poor person and no one paid him anything for this nonsense. And it was necessary to say that they were not worried about Russia, but about their property.
                1. captain
                  captain 5 December 2017 19: 39
                  +1
                  I read part of the comments. Dear comrades Bolsheviks; if the people loved Soviet power so much, then why didn’t anyone go to defend it in 1991? Why did you go to 1918-20 and not go to 1991? Explain at least someone.
                  1. long in stock.
                    long in stock. 5 December 2017 23: 30
                    +2
                    because there was a difference between the power of the 20s and 90s .. then it was the power of the people and then it became the line of what ... the same thing was tsarism. while power serves the people and the country, they protect it. it ceases, they take down ...
          5. Looking for
            Looking for 4 December 2017 15: 39
            +4
            They did not forget. It’s just that they pay a lot for anti-Soviet.
            1. Whispering in the night
              Whispering in the night 4 December 2017 16: 21
              +1
              Quote: Seeker
              Just pay a lot for anti-Soviet.

              How much specifically, do not clarify? Really more than the Germans to the Bolsheviks in the 17th?
            2. long in stock.
              long in stock. 4 December 2017 17: 40
              +2
              others pay ... the rest ... who is to get into these few ... someone at the call of his darling petty country ... that country is big, that means the number of not distant is also not small ... some people even have an unborn memory waking up ...
              1. Whispering in the night
                Whispering in the night 4 December 2017 21: 19
                +1
                You again? What are you following me on the heels, a copy, to give a purse to vilify, or what?

                pay a few. the rest ... who is to get into these few .. someone at the call of his little soul petty ..

                That is, in your opinion, everyone who writes not from the Communist position, all for money or out of meanness? And you and others like you imagined yourself something, the ultimate truth, celestials or by whom? You don’t take much on yourself, you won’t tear yourself, retired?
                1. long in stock.
                  long in stock. 5 December 2017 00: 05
                  +3
                  imagined by those whom you will never be. a person who is lying corny will always be lower than the baseboard ... don’t worry, we will not tear ourselves over hardened ones. And you just have to let whispers in the night .. a cloud in your pants ...
                  1. Whispering in the night
                    Whispering in the night 5 December 2017 08: 05
                    0
                    Quote: long in stock.
                    imagined those who you will never be ..

                    You just noticed that you and you will never be the same misanthrope, God forbid. And so I will bring up children, and then grandchildren ..
                    1. long in stock.
                      long in stock. 5 December 2017 23: 32
                      +1
                      it's unlikely .. you can’t educate anyone .. they are children of liars who intuitively feel ...
                      1. Whispering in the night
                        Whispering in the night 7 December 2017 08: 08
                        0
                        So already raised, the daughter goes to the second class, and the retirement person is already more than patriotism than you.
                2. Old warrior
                  Old warrior 5 December 2017 17: 42
                  0
                  Of course. And because of what?
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 3 December 2017 07: 41
    26
    They are trying by all available means to prove that the October Revolution is bad .. Well, let .. Then explain, the February Revolution is good ...? ... From the point of view of logic, it turns out that the German headquarters decided to deepen the bourgeois-democratic revolution, to conduct a socialist ... The Russian bourgeoisie, it turns out, behaved patriotically, organizing the overthrow of the tsar, and Lenin. German spy comes out ...
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 3 December 2017 08: 51
      16
      Quote: parusnik
      ...... Then explain, the February revolution is good ...? ... From the point of view of logic, it turns out that the German headquarters decided to deepen the bourgeois-democratic revolution, to conduct a socialist ... The Russian bourgeoisie, it turns out, behaved patriotically, organizing the overthrow of the king, and Lenin. German spy comes out ...
      Of course, from a similar point of view, the February revolution is good. Otherwise it can not be. The February Revolution of 1917 is a bourgeois revolution. Like the events of 90 that led to the destruction of the USSR I must admit ------. In the 90s there was a bourgeois revolution, as a result of which the USSR was destroyed, and property instead of state became private !! And if this is good and right for the formed class, then as you write, Alexey ---- Lenin is a German spy. And those who brought the bourgeoisie to power in the 90s ----- not American henchmen, but "democratic converters." "And for the 90s they came up with the word ---- HOLY.
      THAT'S WHAT!!!!!
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 3 December 2017 11: 27
        12
        Quote: Reptiloid
        THAT'S WHAT!!!!!

        In confirmation of you.
        “By the summer of 1917, state authorities were completely demoralized, and the people acted as they saw fit - all the achievements of the ten-year Stolypin reform in 3 months were swept away, and society returned to its state before 1905. Nobody was ready for this - not the tsar’s The government, neither liberal social activists represented by the Cadets, nor even the top of the socialist parties. The Bolsheviks were ready, the brilliant Lenin predicted this outcome.

        Now, answering your first question “what was it?”, I can say: the revolution was a manifestation of the main mentality of our people, reflecting his idea of ​​the justice of the dispensation of life. Neither propaganda nor the West could ever form in Russian society what was indicated by the centuries-old foundations of the Russian people, their archetype. "Http://zavtra.ru/blogs/neizbezhnij_ok
        tyabr_
      2. ufpb
        ufpb 3 December 2017 12: 56
        14
        In 1991 there was a counter-revolution. They explained to us that "market relations" are beginning. But this is CAPITALISM.
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 3 December 2017 09: 18
      +6
      Quote: parusnik
      They are trying by all available means to prove that the October Revolution is bad .. Well, let .. Then explain, the February Revolution is good ...? ... From the point of view of logic, it turns out that the German headquarters decided to deepen the bourgeois-democratic revolution, to conduct a socialist ... The Russian bourgeoisie, it turns out, behaved patriotically, organizing the overthrow of the tsar, and Lenin. German spy comes out ...

      In recent historiography, the February Revolution was combined with the October Revolution into a single Great Russian Revolution, and this event has been rated by today's authorities as a great tragedy.
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 3 December 2017 09: 27
        17
        Quote: RUSS
        The February Revolution was combined with the October Revolution into a single Great Russian Revolution, and

        You can unite anything, trying to cover the tracks, but stubborn facts say that those who made FEBRUARY, and then those who started Civil, are to blame for the tragedy of the country, all these Kornilovs, Denikins, Kolchaks and their other accomplices so you beloved western countries in the person of ANTANTA.
        So the tragedy of the people, on the conscience of both those talkative liberals, and on the conscience of their heirs today, is all these quasi-historians such as brewers A, Chavchavadze and others like them.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 3 December 2017 10: 34
          +6
          Quote: badens1111
          You can combine anything by trying to cover up your tracks, but stubborn facts suggest that those who staged FEBRUARY are to blame for the country's tragedy

          Who are you then? You are contacting the wrong address, you need to write about “cover up tracks” at the Ministry of Education.
          Quote: badens1111
          and then those who started Civil, all of these Kornilovs, Denikins, Kolchaks and their other accomplices, including your beloved Western countries represented by ANTANTA.

          Civil began with the shelling of the Kremlin red. And yet, finish attributing to me any love for different countries, what nonsense?
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 3 December 2017 10: 40
            17
            Quote: RUSS
            Civil began with the shelling of the Kremlin red

            You're lying again.
            "IX. 12 hours. Report

            Soldier of the 56th app. the regiment, who escaped from the Kremlin from the counter-revolutionaries, reports the following. Thursday 12:8. Junker's nights attacked the Kremlin. On Friday, the cadets and I had a real battle, and they offered to surrender. Saturday at 250 o’clock. in the morning they took our weapons from us and began to shoot unarmed machine guns, when we rushed in a panic and, especially in the barracks, sent the cadets to advanced bayonets, and the officers began to shoot from revolvers. As far as we know., About 300-31 people remained killed, the rest were arrested and sent to the district court, then they locked all the others in the barracks, where one company was placed before, and it was strictly forbidden to open the windows, and it was very difficult for us to live because of the stifled air, It was strictly forbidden to recover us. It was interrogated on October 35. They found XNUMX people innocent and freed. Thus, taking advantage of this release, I hastened to V.-R. Committee report. The ensign, who took command of the regiment during the uprising, was beaten half to death and now is sitting, he is not being given any medical assistance. Companions are asked for help.


            For Prev Intelligence. Bureau of Lobanov. 1917, November 1. "
            On October 28, 1917, the commander of the Moscow military district, K. I. Ryabtsev, proposed to the commissioner for the issuance of weapons to O. M. Berzin that the Kremlin occupied by the Bolsheviks be surrendered, referring to the fact that the city was already in his hands, and the VRK was allegedly arrested. Agreeing, Berzin opened the gate, and the cadets were shot by the unarmed soldiers of the 56th reserve regiment who were there. According to various sources of Soviet and Russian historians, about 500 people were killed.

            TERROR

            "Russia we have lost ..."

            "... Releasing the officer battalion from Novocherkassk, Kornilov admonished him with words expressing his exact view of Bolshevism. He said:" Don’t take these villains to me! The more terror, the more victory will be with them! ""
            V. Zh. Tsvetkov

            "... The prisoners, after receiving information about the actions of the Bolsheviks, were shot by the commandant detachment. The officers of the commandant detachment at the end of the campaign were completely sick people, before that they were nervous. Korvin-Krukovsky had some kind of special painful cruelty. The officers of the commandant’s commandant’s the detachment had a heavy duty to shoot the Bolsheviks, but, unfortunately, I knew many cases when, under the influence of hatred of the Bolsheviks, officers took upon themselves the responsibility of voluntarily shooting the prisoners. "
            N. N. Bogdanov - participant of the “Ice campaign”
          2. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 3 December 2017 14: 43
            +7
            Quote: RUSS
            Civil began with the shelling of the Kremlin red. And yet, finish attributing to me any love for different countries, what nonsense?

            The civil war began with the execution of junkers under the command of Colonel Ryabtsev soldiers stationed in the Kremlin and supporting the revolution.
      2. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 3 December 2017 10: 41
        11
        Quote: RUSS
        In recent historiography, the February Revolution was combined with the October Revolution into a single Great Russian Revolution ....

        Recent historiography does not recall the 1905 revolution. What is it for? Convenient ?
        Then, the Great Russian Revolution began in 1905.
        PS February revolution
        October переворот
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 3 December 2017 11: 24
          17
          Greetings, Mammoth! Somehow I rarely meet you! And why do not remember the revolution of 1905? And then you have to remember how the peasants lived then, as they were starving throughout the 19th century. How mercilessly exploited! You also have to remember that according to some laws it was impossible to submit petitions to the tsar and that there was no tsar of the tsar on Bloody Sunday and that those who died that day, during Khodynka, were indifferent to him!
          1. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 3 December 2017 12: 12
            +7
            Quote: Reptiloid
            And then you have to remember ....

            You are right.
            Quote: voyaka uh
            In October, there was a military coup rather than a revolution.
            Although this is debatable: the differences between revolutions and upheavals are quite vague.

            Do not confuse the coup and revolution. A coup is a change of power, a method, revolution is a change in the social sense of the system.
            The great October socialist revolution took place by the method of coup, as did the February revolution.
            In this case, the coup in 1991 is counter-revolution.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 3 December 2017 16: 06
              +4
              In 1991, a peaceful revolution took place (from socialism to capitalism).
              Without shooting, civil war and special violence - similar to February.
              You can argue about the results of the 1991 revolution (as they argue about the results of the October Revolution), but the revolution is unequivocal.
              1. Was mammoth
                Was mammoth 3 December 2017 16: 24
                +7
                Quote: voyaka uh
                In 1991, a peaceful revolution took place (from socialism to capitalism).
                Without shooting, civil war and special violence - similar to February.
                You can argue about the results of the 1991 revolution (as they argue about the results of the October Revolution), but the revolution is unequivocal.

                Counterrevolution. Definitely. wink Go back.
                I hope that you do not call the nationalist, fascist coup in Ukraine a revolution, as Bandera is called.
                Well, one can argue relatively peacefully.
                About the civil war. Yes, without shooting. But, don’t you see the polarity of opinions?
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 3 December 2017 17: 46
                  +2
                  In the 20th century, a number of socialist
                  revolutions (influenced by Russian). Transition to socialism (state capitalism).
                  From the end of the 20th century there has been a widespread rollback to the free market (private capitalism). Sometimes there are mixtures of the first and second.
                  This massive rollback can be called counter-revolution. And it can be called revolutions. And you can - "fundamental economic reforms." And you can and coups. Names do not change the essence.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 4 December 2017 04: 31
                    +4
                    Transition to socialism (state capitalism).

                    Capitalism is a socio-economic formation, based on the private property of the bourgeois class on the means of production and the exploitation by capital of wage workers deprived of the means of production and forced to sell their labor.
                    Socialism is the first phase of a communist formation based on public ownership of the means of productionbut still retaining the remnants of unequal rights in the fact that distribution is made according to work.
                    State capitalism is state ownership of the means of production, state subsidies to private capitalist enterprises, providing them with labor, state regulation of the relationship between labor and capital in the interests of the bourgeoisiecreating an additional source of capital accumulation through colonial robbery; protecting the national bourgeoisie from foreign competition.
                    If, under socialism, you find the class of the bourgeoisie, then, in the full right to quote this term. In my opinion, in your statement, the formal logic, the "law of the exclusion of the third", is simply violated. Perhaps you wanted to say something else, but among the liberal public, there is a combination of these two concepts, that is, the next shadow casting on the fence.
              2. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 3 December 2017 16: 46
                +8
                These, all tales about the peaceful revolutions, we, Voyaka, someone's brother, read in a yellow newspaper in Israel.
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 3 December 2017 11: 25
          +4
          Done right
          There were 2 revolutions: 1905 - crushed by the government
          and February - the winner.
          In October, there was a military coup rather than a revolution.
          Although this is debatable: the differences between revolutions and upheavals are quite vague.
          Lenin was not a German spy in the usual sense. It was
          temporary strategic community of interests. Interim Alliance between German Intelligence
          and the leader of the Bolsheviks and several of his confidants.
          Lenin received money (and big), but he spent strictly on the “business” -
          antiwar propaganda. As soon as World War I ended, the alliance ceased.
          Parvus in general, as soon as the monarchy fell, lost interest in Russia - his goal was to bring down
          dynasty of the Romanovs. And who would come to power further did not care.
          1. Varyag_0711
            Varyag_0711 3 December 2017 13: 22
            23
            voyaka uh Today, 11:25 ↑ New
            Done right
            There were 2 revolutions: 1905 - crushed by the government
            and February - the winner.
            In October, there was a military coup rather than a revolution.
            Not a respected citizen of a non-respected country, but do you know the difference between revolution and coup? The coup was just the same in February, since there was no change of ownership of the means of production, but in October there was a revolution! Go learn the materiel! Anyway, what have you forgotten here? There are no other problems in Israel, except how to discuss the history of Russia?
          2. the lord
            the lord 3 December 2017 18: 46
            +3
            Have you read the article? Lenin did not contact the German intelligence services at all
          3. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 3 December 2017 20: 13
            +5
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Lenin was not a German spy in the usual sense.

            Lenin was not at all. smile
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Parvus in general, as soon as the monarchy fell, lost interest in Russia - his goal was to bring down
            dynasty of the Romanovs.

            His goal was to make money, no matter how. An adventurer and a rogue, albeit not an ordinary one, who should have been locked up for 25 years on Kolyma with confiscation of property.
        3. RUSS
          RUSS 3 December 2017 13: 21
          +2
          Quote: There was a mammoth
          Then, the Great Russian Revolution began in 1905

          And ended with the end of the civil war.
          1. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 3 December 2017 13: 40
            +6
            Quote: RUSS
            Quote: There was a mammoth
            Then, the Great Russian Revolution began in 1905

            And ended with the end of the civil war.

            You can extend the countdown to 1991. There are reasons for this. Then, the picture will be different.
      3. parusnik
        parusnik 3 December 2017 11: 27
        +6
        In recent historiography, the February Revolution was combined with the October Revolution into a single Great Russian Revolution, and this event has been rated by today's authorities as a great tragedy.
        ... As in R. Kipling's fairy tale "How Armadillos Appeared" ... but the truth was that they didn’t cross a hedgehog with a turtle ... But nonetheless ...
        1. Cat
          Cat 3 December 2017 12: 13
          +4
          If in fact, then any revolution or coup ends in a civil war, then this is definitely bad.
          So do not twist it - the events of 1905 and February, October 1917 are epoch-making for Russia and have no point of return. You can jump from a history engine, but how can you avoid breaking your legs?
          I will try to summarize my judgments!
          1. Revolutions or coups in Russia - good or bad? Definitely bad.
          2. The actions of forces after the Great October Revolution? Mistakes and annoying miscalculations were made by all parties to the conflict, both white and red. But on the scoreboard the red glasses had more and naturally they won.
          3. Was the victory of the “Bolsheviks" absolute? Alas, the local elites of Finland, Poland and the Baltic countries remained in the win, who, having jumped from a steam locomotive, managed to unhook different goods on the carriage. Moreover, given that some began to intensively lick the loin of the Entente, then instead of paying the bill proportional to the debt of tsarist Russia, they also threw some money. By the way, the local elites also won, whom the Bolsheviks returned to the stall. To whom the compatriots fell: USSR, BSSR, Kazakh SSR. Someone for the first time realized that they are a nation or people, as a gift from the Soviet government received their language, writing, education, medicine and much much more up to the borders.
          4. As a result, already in the 90s, the peoples of the Russian Federation paid for the tsar and the Wishlist of the Union republics. Moreover, the sad fact is that not one Union republic has not borne the share of the burden of expenses of both tsarist Russia and the USSR. Someone even managed to pocket someone else's or not to give up the total.
          I have the honor!
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 3 December 2017 12: 54
            +8
            Are revolutions or coups in Russia good or bad? Definitely bad.
            ... You set equalities between revolution and coup ..? ... Let's go over the coups before the first revolution of 1905. I don’t touch the troubles. Is Peter removing from Sophia’s power bad? .. When Menshikov enthroned Catherine I , bad? .. The removal from power of the Braunschweig dynasty and the accession to the throne of Elizabeth, is it bad? "Revolution" of Catherine II, the overthrow of Peter III is bad? With the assassination of Paul I during the last palace coup, the coups ended, bad? ... During the revolution of 1905, redemption payments from peasants that they paid since the abolition of serfdom were canceled, bad? .. Judging by your reasoning, this is all bad ..But is it all so clear ..
            1. Cat
              Cat 3 December 2017 13: 44
              +4
              Dear Alexy!
              You can perceive my unequivocal "bad" as a kind of initialization of political and social processes. Not a real wish - to replay the story! Any revolution is worse than a conscious progressive evolutionary process.
              We just throw it on the equality table: the events of the "Streltsy rebellion" when Tsarevna Sophia was elevated to the throne and the situation in which the Miloslavsky clan "puts their Wishlist in one place" and there is no rebellion in the history of Russia, there is no pillar on Red Square with privileges, no Morozov was killed, Peter I has no phobia for archers, there is no overthrow of Sophia, there is no suppression of the archers' rebellion, etc. Obviously, the second version of the development of history is not real, but if you choose from two, then I am for the second!
              So the events of 1905, Nicholas II, found common ground with his people, created the Constitution, formed an elected government, avoided participating in the First World War ....
              Handsomely? Beautifully, but the laws of the development of society suggest other processes and patterns. Alas - alas, this is true.
              In this connection, I believe that despite the tragedy of any revolution, it is necessary to dot the results and results, and not intermediate opuses and isolations from reality. If it happened at 17, it is not the one who took this power that is to blame, but the one who missed it. And so do the French, who do not allow to blame their revolution. And we just hung in the evaluation of ourselves through the prism of a secular lens.
              1. parusnik
                parusnik 3 December 2017 14: 20
                +5
                If it happened at 17, it is not the one who took this power that is to blame, but the one who missed it. And so do the French, who do not allow to blame their revolution. And we just hung in the evaluation of ourselves through the prism of a secular lens.
                ... This is true, but unfortunately so far the attitude is to blame who took it, and not the one who lost ... Now those in power and those who are torn to it 50 shades of gray, but replaced by gray, always come black. ..
      4. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 3 December 2017 14: 40
        +5
        Quote: RUSS
        In recent historiography, the February Revolution was combined with the October Revolution into a single Great Russian Revolution, and this event has been rated by today's authorities as a great tragedy

        This is the tragedy of the 1917 revolution for today's authorities, and for the destitute, both at that time and in the present, it is a holiday! This is a holiday of all the oppressed!
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 3 December 2017 15: 43
          +7
          Quote: Alexander Green
          This is the tragedy of the 1917 revolution for today's authorities, and for the disadvantaged it is a celebration! This is a holiday of all the oppressed!

          Precisely because this revolution ----- for the disadvantaged and oppressed, there was such a defense of the Soviet Motherland from the Nazis! At that time, many remembered life under the tsar and told children. The Great October Socialist Revolution became a tragedy for the White Guards. And the White Guard project, the anti-Russian, was never interrupted. From abroad, he was always supported in different ways and united with others ---- with the fascists, bourgeois, anti-Soviet, England, states ..... impostors .... And those who today in the Russian Federation support the White Guard project, no hell they don’t pedry, they don’t see beyond their organ, they don’t hear Lavrov’s words and they don’t understand that they are all white for those ----- vile people and are not worthy of medicine, education, or any benefits. !!!!
          1. Cat
            Cat 3 December 2017 19: 08
            +5
            Dima good evening!
            Three postulates for the power of the Soviets!
            1 eradication of illiteracy.
            2 Industrialization of industry, which later allowed us to withstand the Second World War and fly into space.
            3 Socially fair society with free medicine, etc.
            Three postulates against the power of the Soviets.
            1 The peasantry, as such, that by the age of 90 we could not feed ourselves.
            2 Religion.
            3 civil war, which could not be avoided.
            Now the dry residue is a quarter century after the collapse of the USSR.
            If education and thoughtfulness still live, sometimes at the expense of the Soviet reserve, then we have already lost a socially just state. We object to the peasant and religion slowly, although the latter may be smaller. The civil war in our hearts still has not smoothed out the contradictions. Sad but true.
            Ancient Greek wisdom cannot enter the same river twice. So it is necessary to survive and go further without repeating the mistakes of the past.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 3 December 2017 20: 29
              +4
              Good evening, Vlad-Kotische! You are much better than I know the history of our country in the 20th century! Why? Well, the age difference in study, probably a year in three? Somehow. You have a good bonus in this! How much did I dig into the present Mammoth about the deficit ....
              I don’t know what is being reborn, for now I see the revival of the white project. And the white project is anti-Russian, anti-Russian, leading to the death of our homeland.
              Under the guise of religion, some sectarian fabrications appear to us that people cannot distinguish and follow them. Yours faithfully
              1. Cat
                Cat 3 December 2017 21: 29
                +2
                Dima, the trouble with the white project is not in its anti-Russian roots, but in the fact that the mass of the White Guards did not realize that there was no return point, no way back, and all the fluttering was only the enemy’s mill.
                Regarding the crony and the queues? Blat in my understanding are books - subscriptions. Things, I'm at 15 to school in felt boots, a cross-linked police short fur coat and a mink. Not bothered. It was easier to live in the capitals, and the province survived due to subsistence farming. A cow was kept across the courtyard, in each house there was a bull-calf for meat, some managed piglets and chickens to keep in the apartment. I’m silent about the gardens. Before the death of the father of one land under mowing we had about 12 hectares, potatoes were planted 20 acres. Moreover, the parents worked. Sometimes remembering a funny holy word - barter! Two greenhouses = Ural motorcycle. Two geese = greenhouse. At the bread shop, there is a turn of about 100 people. 2 rolls in one hand.
                The daily routine is 13 years. Rise at 6:00 you go to the cottage, carry water for cattle. 8 with 20 buckets. Home, ate and to school. After school to muzykalku. Then carry water to the cottage. In summer, the cow’s grazing take turns 16 km on foot. And every day to see off and meet from the herd. From July to August, suffering. They did not swell with hunger, but did not lie on the couch. And this is not in the countryside but in the city.
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 3 December 2017 21: 45
                  +3
                  Your story about that life aroused good positive emotions in me, although it’s not entirely clear that I should be tired, work, but a little enviable .... I recall your story about your relatives and neighbors.
                  The fault of the white project is to ultimately divide the country into parts. Nasty nasty lies about the lost gene pool of them because of the Revolution. Somehow little is said about the lost gene pool that during the Second World War. A generation of young, educated builders of socialism was dying. The best of the best.
                  1. Cat
                    Cat 3 December 2017 22: 33
                    +3
                    Dima, the trouble is that we could not avoid the Great Patriotic War.
                    Regarding the gene pool, I agree with you. War is a loss. Losing it ... and so everything is clear.
                    I partially agree with the demographic issue with the decisions of the country's leadership. People do not need to give handouts, it is necessary to create conditions so that people can earn money.
              2. Old warrior
                Old warrior 5 December 2017 17: 50
                0
                The church should repent for a long time: I don’t remember something, that they somehow helped the Tsar to avoid renunciation, etc.
          2. captain
            captain 5 December 2017 20: 52
            +1
            Quote: Reptiloid
            Quote: Alexander Green
            This is the tragedy of the 1917 revolution for today's authorities, and for the disadvantaged it is a celebration! This is a holiday of all the oppressed!

            Precisely because this revolution ----- for the disadvantaged and oppressed, there was such a defense of the Soviet Motherland from the Nazis! At that time, many remembered life under the tsar and told children. The Great October Socialist Revolution became a tragedy for the White Guards. And the White Guard project, the anti-Russian, was never interrupted. From abroad, he was always supported in different ways and united with others ---- with the fascists, bourgeois, anti-Soviet, England, states ..... impostors .... And those who today in the Russian Federation support the White Guard project, no hell they don’t pedry, they don’t see beyond their organ, they don’t hear Lavrov’s words and they don’t understand that they are all white for those ----- vile people and are not worthy of medicine, education, or any benefits. !!!!

            And in 1812 why did the people rise? After all, the "bourgeois" ruled. And why did they win on Kulikovo Field, it seems that it was not Lenin and Trotsky who led the army. What money did revolutionaries of all stripes live on abroad? Who fed them? Are they working there in the mines? Maybe among them all were immigrants from Russian peasants? What nonsense to carry, it is better to take and honestly say; true Leninists deceived the people. They promised to distribute the land for free and distributed, and then they took it away. And only the earth, and all that is possible to "kill the petty-bourgeois entity in the peasant." Social benefits were achieved to such an extent that there was nothing in the country. And now they are starting to remember that everything was better. If it was better, then why didn’t the people rise, why so few people vote for the Communists? Chatting do not toss bags. By the way, where are the grandchildren, children of our glorious general secretaries, do not tell me? Then I will tell you; all over the hill. ALL absolutely. Apparently tired of fighting for social justice in the USSR. The kings were removed. but with her apparently zapadlo.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 6 December 2017 01: 39
              +1
              Quote: captain
              And in 1812 why did the people rise? After all, the "bourgeois" ruled. And why did they win at Kulikovo Field, it seems that Lenin and Trotsky were not leading the army .... ??? .... ???? .... ????

              It is true that the people say that one <....> can ask so many questions that a hundred professors will not answer them.
              As I understand it, it’s useless for you to clarify everything, you will still remain with your opinion. But so that in the future, when asking questions, you don’t look silly, learn dialectics, and then you will not only remember historical facts, but also analyze them, and from the point of view of the time when they happened, and remember historical analogies can lead to an incorrect conclusion, because they are similar in form, but not in content.
    3. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 3 December 2017 16: 38
      +8
      The thesis "Lenin-German spy" worked with 1917 until the summer of 1918, when this "spy" ordered the Black Sea Fleet to be flooded so that the Germans would not get it. Then this rotten slogan found its fans at the end of the 80 of the last century - three generations changed, the layman was told that the lines in the shops at the late Gorbachev were due to the 1917 Revolution of the year.
      1. long in stock.
        long in stock. 3 December 2017 19: 35
        +5
        yeah. moreover, the provisional government was digging on the topic of German money and espionage of Lenin. 20 volumes were scribbled, but they couldn’t be found.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 3 December 2017 22: 43
          +3
          Dug up enough. They took a guy who was transporting money. We found receipts from Lenin in receiving money. No wonder Lenin dumped in the Spill.
          1. long in stock.
            long in stock. 4 December 2017 00: 09
            +4
            from whom did the guy transport money? from the German General Staff or from the Zionists? there are a lot of supporters of both versions ..
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 4 December 2017 09: 30
              +2
              Jews needed the February Revolution. She canceled the line
              Settlement and other restrictions for Jews. And October they absolutely
              not rolled - the Jews in the mass were for capitalism. C_and_onists do not need
              there was neither one nor the other. They needed the Jews to leave for Palestine.
              So the money for Lenin was given by the German General Staff. And transmitted
              they are through swedish banks. Transported couriers. One of them and grabbed
              Interim government.
              1. long in stock.
                long in stock. 6 December 2017 00: 11
                +2
                a duck is a warrior ... so the money gave that Lenin made the revolution in Germany itself .. if the Jews are for capitalism, how do you explain their large number in October? Yes, and after October there are even more .. yes, you can also remember Spain, for some reason, it was Jews who constituted the majority in the Polish Dombrowski battalion in the American Lincoln. The Zionists were able to ensure the outflow to Palestine only with the help of Hitler .. but this is true. And most importantly, if it were true, Goebbels would never have missed such opportunities, after all, everything was in the hands of both archives and witnesses, but it wasn’t ... why is it suddenly? so the version is absolutely not consistent. The movement of money through Nia Banken and Russian banks, according to opponents of the theory of German gold, was only the commercial calculations of the Ganetsky firm (connected with Parvus by purely business connections), and an analysis of all commercial telegrams intercepted by the counterintelligence department of the General Directorate of the Russian General Staff showed that they do not give any evidence of the transfer of money from Stockholm to Russia: money always went only in the opposite direction, that is, at Nia Banken I believe counterintelligence more than scribblers ...
    4. sibiryouk
      sibiryouk 3 December 2017 16: 46
      +7
      And what kind of intelligence information could the “German spy” get-Lenin, who had spent more than 10 years abroad RosIMperii, never served in the civil service, and had no connections with the state secrets?
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 3 December 2017 22: 47
        +3
        He did not get ANY intelligence information. He simply led Russia out of the war. Which was crucial for Germany. And German intelligence helped him lead Russia out of the war with Germany. And she transferred large sums of money to anti-war propaganda among soldiers and workers. When World War I ended with the defeat of Germany, the treaty lost force.
    5. Rastas
      Rastas 4 December 2017 21: 12
      +2
      Today, power is for no revolution. It is against any revolution, against any popular uprising. Vladlen Loginov, historian, author of a very good trilogy about Lenin, spoke about the series "Demon of the Revolution": "In" Demon of the Revolution "Lenin is shown in a gendarme interpretation." In general, he noted that the gendarmes are depicted as the best in the series, all the rest are bastards. And again, the current government, as it were, is trying to convince that money always decided everything, that the masses did not carry any value.
      1. captain
        captain 5 December 2017 20: 57
        +1
        Quote: Rastas
        Today, power is for no revolution. It is against any revolution, against any popular uprising. Vladlen Loginov, historian, author of a very good trilogy about Lenin, spoke about the series "Demon of the Revolution": "In" Demon of the Revolution "Lenin is shown in a gendarme interpretation." In general, he noted that the gendarmes are depicted as the best in the series, all the rest are bastards. And again, the current government, as it were, is trying to convince that money always decided everything, that the masses did not carry any value.

        Today the authorities are the grandchildren of the true Leninists. For example, Gaidar (heaven be upon him) the son of the rear admiral of the political worker, Chubysy are the children of the colonel of the political worker (head of the department of Marxism-Leninism, Medvedev is the son of a teacher of Marxism-Leninism, etc. So the power of Lenin’s heirs.
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 5 December 2017 23: 48
          +1
          well, you’re talking nonsense .. you just remember who the revolutionaries were before Lenin. so almost all the children of nobles and often very rich.
  3. Whispering in the night
    Whispering in the night 3 December 2017 07: 42
    +2
    Somehow imperceptibly for our state, the significant date of the centenary of the October Revolution passed.

    Nothing strange, the topic has not been relevant for a long time, and is absolutely uninteresting to the younger generation.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 3 December 2017 08: 25
      17
      But where can the young generation live? In a vacuum? Or is it still in Russia? If in Russia, you still need to know your history!
      Quote: Whispering in the night
      Somehow imperceptibly for our state, the significant date of the centenary of the October Revolution passed.

      Nothing strange, the topic has not been relevant for a long time, and is absolutely uninteresting to the younger generation.
      1. long in stock.
        long in stock. 3 December 2017 08: 46
        +6
        and this instance, and so in a vacuum ... had the nerve to return after his last passages ....
      2. badens1111
        badens1111 3 December 2017 09: 31
        16
        Yesterday, on the SPAS TV channel, I watched the program ... A. Mamontov conducted how he did not try, as he did not indulge Pivovarov and Chavchavadze, in their cries and lies, and the youth, in the vast majority chose the side of the Bolsheviks, the issue was discussed just about FEBRUARY AND OCTOBER.
        The day before yesterday, on the same channel, they discussed the role in history of Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great and Joseph Stalin, again, as liberal liberals did not try, and the youth chose Stalin, Ivan and Peter as statesmen who served the interests of the country and people as a role model.
      3. Whispering in the night
        Whispering in the night 3 December 2017 10: 56
        +2
        Quote: 210ox
        But where can the young generation live? In a vacuum? Or is it still in Russia? If in Russia, you still need to know your history!

        It is necessary to know history, who argues, and the entire thousand-year history, but marking or not marking certain dates of this story is a purely personal matter for everyone, if October is not interesting for young people, then this is how it should be, I don’t see anything wrong with that.
        1. 210ox
          210ox 3 December 2017 11: 15
          +8
          And what generation do you yourself? Do you know history? Not only do you know it, but also teach it in the right way! And then a generation of “knees, stinging fascists and not knowing relatives” grows up. I personally educate my four sons in patriotic traditions. They know Lenin and Stalin and go in for sports. About the whole generation that does not want to know anything except the iPhone, you are in vain.
          Quote: Whispering in the night
          Quote: 210ox
          But where can the young generation live? In a vacuum? Or is it still in Russia? If in Russia, you still need to know your history!

          It is necessary to know history, who argues, and the entire thousand-year history, but marking or not marking certain dates of this story is a purely personal matter for everyone, if October is not interesting for young people, then this is how it should be, I don’t see anything wrong with that.
          1. Whispering in the night
            Whispering in the night 3 December 2017 11: 29
            +2
            I’m 34, I am raising the same daughter to the best of my ability in a patriotic spirit, not in a communist one, I emphasize, but in the spirit of love for the Motherland, regardless of the social system in the country. And she knows the whole truth about Lenin and Stalin, both positive and unsightly ..
            1. Was mammoth
              Was mammoth 3 December 2017 12: 36
              +8
              Quote: Whispering in the night
              And she knows the whole truth about Lenin and Stalin, both positive and unsightly ..

              Just the same interest appeared, what truth did you tell your daughter about positive about Lenin and Stalin? wink
              1. Whispering in the night
                Whispering in the night 3 December 2017 18: 45
                +1
                I couldn’t say anything positive about Lenin, your truth, about Stalin - a victory in the war of the Soviet people under his leadership, post-war reconstruction and the atomic bomb. I will not describe the negative, which is enough about both, so as not to increase passion. But the daughter is in the know, do not hesitate)
          2. long in stock.
            long in stock. 3 December 2017 16: 36
            +2
            but the fact that this instance is well characterized .... Not true. For example, Ryazan, Vladimir, Tula and other nearby electric trains by the mid-70s (or maybe earlier, just do not know) smelled completely of Moscow sausage ... that is, a person already born in 1983 proudly broadcasts what sausage smelled electric trains of the year so 1975 ... the memory of the ancestors? or hallucinations ... or all together ..
            1. Whispering in the night
              Whispering in the night 3 December 2017 18: 41
              +1
              Wow, you write down my quotes in a notebook in order to flash in the right place, a copy ?! And “hallucinations” - why, is this some kind of secret information, or something, or, perhaps, you will argue that there were no such trains? lol
              1. long in stock.
                long in stock. 3 December 2017 19: 37
                +1
                why write down? they are ... that I’m not used to answering for words? so teach ... and what trains were not? with a sausage smell? these are glitches ...
                1. Whispering in the night
                  Whispering in the night 3 December 2017 20: 28
                  0
                  Okst, sick, whom can you and what to "teach"? This is glitches, old age is not joy, I understand ...
                  But the Moscow suburban electric train full of sausage and other shortages were there, you yourself know it, although you make an ax with your face here ..
                  1. long in stock.
                    long in stock. 4 December 2017 00: 12
                    +1
                    wake up boy ... and it’s just that the face of the face flattened with an ax ... I know a lot of things. but how did you even unbornly learn the Zen of sausage electric trains .. can you share it?
                    1. Whispering in the night
                      Whispering in the night 4 December 2017 21: 14
                      0
                      I know a lot about the Second World War, although, you will not believe it, you did not live at that time either. wink About the very war that you communes have been cussing all your life, but you still haven’t been able to bury in the people's memory, because the power is in truth, all the same, and not in your long uninteresting Marxist mantras.
                  2. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 4 December 2017 21: 29
                    +1
                    Quote: Whispering in the night
                    Okst, sick, whom can you and what to "teach"? This is glitches, old age is not joy, I understand ...

                    Dear, you are wrong, old age is a reward, it is not given to everyone.
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 3 December 2017 09: 26
      +4
      Quote: Whispering in the night
      Nothing strange, the topic has not been relevant for a long time, and is absolutely uninteresting to the younger generation.

      It is absolutely true that if Stalin is at least somehow interesting to young people and they can say a few words about him, then Lenin is something far and "not interesting" .....
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 3 December 2017 10: 41
        14
        Quote: RUSS
        Stalin is at least somehow interesting to young people and they can say a few words about him, then Lenin is something far and "not interesting" .....

        Then from the mention of one and the second you have increased nervousness, turning into an outright lie.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 3 December 2017 13: 50
          +1
          Quote: badens1111
          Then from the mention of one and the second you have increased nervousness, turning into an outright lie.

          https://youtu.be/Da3vhVVcKUQ
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 3 December 2017 17: 03
            +3
            Quote: RUSS
            https://youtu.be/D

            This nonsense, look? Tales plastered russophobic audience, see for yourself.
      2. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 3 December 2017 15: 07
        +6
        Quote: RUSS
        It is absolutely true that if Stalin is at least somehow interesting to youth and a few words can be said about him, then Lenin is something far and "not interesting

        And you think this is good? This is a robbed generation. And you are contributing to this.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 3 December 2017 15: 52
          +2
          Quote: Alexander Green
          And you think this is good? This is a robbed generation. And you are contributing to this.

          I think this is not good, you need to know the story.
          And how do I contribute to the fact that young people do not know who Lenin is?
          Brad.
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 3 December 2017 16: 47
            +4
            Quote: RUSS
            And how do I contribute to the fact that young people do not know who Lenin is?
            Brad.

            The question is not in Lenin, but in history. By participating in the revision of history from the standpoint of the bourgeoisie and the White Guard, you are giving young people incorrect assessments. The history of science is class and the evaluations of events by working people are the opposite of those made by bourgeois historians.
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 3 December 2017 17: 32
              +2
              Quote: Alexander Green
              The question is not in Lenin, but in history. By participating in the revision of history from the standpoint of the bourgeoisie and the White Guard, you are giving young people incorrect assessments.

              Wrong grades? It’s interesting, and which ones are correct, those that are closer to you ideologically? Estimates of history can be different, but the facts are the same.
              1. the lord
                the lord 3 December 2017 18: 58
                +2
                It’s more correct that those who led to the victories of the people themselves and to new accomplishments, which didn’t smell of anything from your white-ensign movement
                1. RUSS
                  RUSS 3 December 2017 20: 31
                  0
                  Quote: znavel
                  It’s more correct that those who led to the victories of the people themselves and to new accomplishments, which didn’t smell of anything from your white-ensign movement

                  Naphthalene.
                  1. the lord
                    the lord 5 December 2017 02: 42
                    +1
                    Right now, you have rightly outlined the essence of your views — your white movement of losers and fascists — Krasnovtsy — naphthalene
              2. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 3 December 2017 19: 06
                +4
                Quote: RUSS
                Wrong grades? It’s interesting, and which ones are correct, those that are closer to you ideologically? Estimates of history can be different, but the facts are the same.

                I wrote that history is a class science. For example, what about the execution of 26 Baku commissars in 1918?
                Your bourgeois brethren rejoices - 26 commies have been let into consumption.
                My comrades (Soviet people) and I grieve - 26 commissars-heroes died.
                Therefore, the bourgeoisie and the working people will never be reconciled.
                1. Karen
                  Karen 3 December 2017 20: 30
                  0
                  I'm interfering here.
                  I myself consider Shaumyan to be a glorious leader before his escape. But the party bail of betrayal made him become a traitor to his people. Escape from the battlefield - was ordered by Lenin in order to fulfill his order from Berlin, so that the Turks entered Baku.
                  ____
                  He called to Moscow to ask my friend how my book “Lenin and Shaumyan” was there ... he said that he hid the book so as not to lose, that he hadn’t found it on the first attempt.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 4 December 2017 01: 46
                    +5
                    Quote: Karen
                    I myself consider Shaumyan to be a glorious leader before his escape. But the party bail of betrayal made him become a traitor to his people. Escape from the battlefield - was ordered by Lenin in order to fulfill his order from Berlin, so that the Turks entered Baku.

                    Where do you read these nasty things? Are you really informed from Berlin? What nonsense is it: an order from Berlin that the Turks enter Baku and the British troops take Baku? Your ancestors, the Musavatists and Dashnaks, who made a coup and invited British troops to Baku, tried to overthrow the Baku commune.
                2. RUSS
                  RUSS 3 December 2017 20: 35
                  0
                  In Baku, by the way, the Baku Commissars street was renamed ....
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 4 December 2017 01: 54
                    +3
                    Quote: RUSS
                    In Baku, by the way, the Baku Commissars street was renamed ....

                    So what? In Odessa, Marshal Zhukov Avenue was renamed to Heavenly Hundred Avenue. But residents disagree with this, paint over new tablets and write the old name.
                3. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 4 December 2017 20: 37
                  +2
                  Classroom? How do you feel about the death of 300 Spartans? Rejoice in their death or lament? - Neither this nor that. For a long time it was ... after 2000 years, they will be neutral towards Lenin (if they even remember that he was like that).
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 4 December 2017 21: 37
                    +3
                    Quote: voyaka uh
                    Classroom? How do you feel about the death of 300 Spartans? Rejoice in their death or lament? - Neither this nor that. For a long time it was ... after 2000 years, they will be neutral towards Lenin (if they even remember that he was like that).


                    Dear, you need to learn a dialectic
                    https://work-way.com/blog/2014/11/25/dialektiches
                    kij-materializm /
                    Each event has a form and content, when you learn it and you see the difference between the events, then you will understand all your misconceptions.
                  2. the lord
                    the lord 5 December 2017 02: 45
                    +2
                    yeah, something you still can’t cool off to your prophet moishe, and go and your siblings still get up and burst about the tale of the Queen of Sheba and Monya))))
                    And this despite the fact that you yourself have nothing to do with these stories - because you are Turkic people, not safard
  4. Karen
    Karen 3 December 2017 08: 23
    +4
    In Soviet literature, the number of "passengers" of that car, after requests from the Bolshevik enemies, quickly changed from 32 to 30 ...
    Radek tried in court to somehow open this topic, but he was quickly shut up.
    Well, when about 10 years ago I saw Putin’s box with a question for people “We watched the film“ Who paid Lenin ”, I realized that he knows everything on this issue that pleases ...
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 3 December 2017 09: 49
      14
      Quote: Karen
      10 back I saw Putin’s box with a question for people “We watched the film“ Who paid Lenin ”, then I realized that he knows everything on this issue that pleases ...

      This nonsense, perceived as truth, is beneficial only to those who have been serving thieves since the age of 90. Will you argue?
      1. Karen
        Karen 3 December 2017 09: 53
        +4
        Why should I argue with you, if here these same Ganevskys gave our lands to the Turks, well, just like that ?! Moscow Treaty, for example.
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 3 December 2017 10: 03
          14
          Quote: Karen
          Ganevsky gave our lands to the Turks well, just like that?

          “Your” lands? From which hangover, “yours”?
          You in the 90s, refused to be in one country, now why are you waving akinaki? "Your" lands = what you have now, here is responsible for them.
          Your so-called leaders in 90, screaming and yelling about the "great Armenia", which is supposedly occupied by Russia? So now what are you speaking here? What are you doing without Russia, are there in Transcaucasia?
          REMIND? Remind you.
          From the very beginning, the Armenian national movement went beyond the boundaries of a separate republic. The processes associated with the gradual separation of Armenia from the USSR, its rapprochement with Nagorno-Karabakh and the accompanying conflict with Azerbaijan affected both Karabakh itself and the Armenian population as a whole. Even those of the Armenians there who were far from politics, in the conditions of interethnic conflict, had to leave their homes in order to escape from the pogroms.

          On February 24, 1988, the Karabakh committee was created in Yerevan. Its honorary chairmen were poetess Silva Kaputikyan and academician Victor Hambartsumyan, the future president of Armenia Levon Ter-Petrosyan was among the leaders. Later, on the basis of the committee, the Armenian National Movement party was created, which, after Ter-Petrosyan came to power, received the status of the ruling one.

          In 1990, representatives of the national movement came to power in Armenia. At the beginning of the year, four representatives of the ANM were included in the Presidium of the Supreme Council of the Republic. In May, full-fledged elections were held, in which the ANM won. Ter-Petrosyan took the post of speaker of the parliament, his comrade-in-arms Vazgen Manukyan headed the government. A year later - shortly after the failed coup in Moscow - the presidential election was held, in which Levon Ter-Petrosyan won.

          Armenia, after realizing that reunification with Karabakh with the help of Moscow was unattainable, led a consistent struggle for ethnopolitical self-determination. The course precisely in this direction was also indicated by the Declaration of Independence of August 23, 1990, which abolished the Armenian SSR and virtually proclaimed all the attributes of the new statehood. However, for this statehood it was still necessary to fight, firstly, with the allied leadership, and secondly, with their own national radicals, pushing the republic without the necessary resources on the path of open confrontation with Moscow. In February 1991, the Supreme Council of Armenia adopted the procedure for organizing a referendum on independence. In fact, this meant the republic’s refusal to participate in the all-union referendum on March 17 of that year on the preservation of the renewed Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The inhabitants of Armenia had to answer the question: “Do you agree that the Republic of Armenia be an independent democratic state outside the USSR?”
          What are your complaints to us now? You yourself have chosen your own path, so now you don’t need to complain or try to hide again behind the broad back of the Russian people. We are friendly and tolerant, but we don’t like betrayal.
          And since you cannot live without Russia, then moderate your ambitions and claims, they will work against you.
          1. Karen
            Karen 3 December 2017 10: 25
            +4
            The Ganevsky and Moscow treaties were 100 years ago, about which the article says.
            ___
            About Levon Ter-Petrosyan and Co. - these are the dummies of your party, which they created the halo of martyrs in the basements of the Lubyanka, but actually gave instructions on the collapse of the USSR: the policy of the party and government ...
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 3 December 2017 10: 43
              10
              Quote: Karen
              About Levon Ter-Petrosyan and Co. - this is your party’s mannequins, which they created the halo of martyrs in the basements of the Lubyanka, but actually gave instructions on the collapse of the USSR: party and government policies

              May I remind you of your SS servant, what is your current “hero”?
              I remind you.
              Monument to Garegin Nzhdeh - the demarche of Armenia against Russia

              The unveiling of the monument to Garegin Nzhdeh, the war criminal who led the Armenian SS Legion during World War II, in Yerevan should require immediate reaction from Moscow through diplomatic channels, director of the Institute for Political Studies Sergey Markov, candidate of historical sciences, political, said in an interview with Vestnik Kavkaza analyst Oleg Kuznetsov and president of the National Strategy Institute, Mikhail Remizov.

              Sergey Markov called this fact monstrous. "The opening of the monument to Garegin Nzhdeh indicates the presence in the Armenian society of some powerful forces that are directed against Russia, because Russia is the main winner of German Nazism. The creation of collaborative troops that served Nazi Germany is a monstrous crime, and such an act of Yerevan goes beyond all acceptable formats. This should require a decisive reaction from Russia demanding to stop the heroization of Nazi collaborators, "he urged. http://www.yaplakal.com/forum1/topic1387550.ht
              ml
              1. Karen
                Karen 3 December 2017 11: 04
                +3
                I don’t need to remind about the hero of our people Nzhde - since I never forget him ...

                They didn’t think about the question, why didn’t he, so famous, be shot after SMERSH officers after his arrest?
                The answer, I think, lies on the surface ...
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 3 December 2017 14: 09
                  +9
                  Quote: Karen
                  I don’t need to remind about the hero of our people - since I never forget him

                  "Hero" is a Nazi, Armenian "national" hero? Since when has Judas who served the Nazis became a hero? From the moment of coming to power in Armenia, descendants of Dashnaks and other rabble?
                  Hitler you, the same in the heroes, personally you, as the head of your nzhde?
                  Quote: Karen
                  They didn’t think about the question, why didn’t he, so famous, be shot after SMERSH officers after his arrest?
                  The answer, I think, lies on the surface ...

                  Because this scum was used in the needs of intelligence, so to mold from a traitor, something will not work.
                  At that time, when Nzhdeh "fought" against the Ottoman Empire, rumors of all kinds creeped about him, the rumor said about Nzhdeh's serious problems with the psyche. He revealed obvious sadistic inclinations, mixed with unjustified delusions of grandeur. These complexes Nzhdeh in the future will only progress, and take more and more ugly forms.
                  Here is what one source writes about Garegin at the beginning of his “career” (First Balkan War): “On November 15, 1912, one of the Armenian detachments under the command of the young Armenian Garegin Nzhdeh enters the Turkish village of Megramli, the detachment sets up a bloody massacre in the village.
                  By order of Nzhdeh, two Turkish teenagers are brought to a peasant house, in which Nzhdeh set up his temporary headquarters. All night they remain alone with Nzhdeh, in the morning he personally shoots them. ”
                  I think it is not necessary to have a stormy imagination to understand what Nzhdeh did to them all night and why he shot them himself in the morning, not entrusting this matter to others.
                  Poghos Ter-Davtyan:
                  “Who does not know about the vileness of Nzhdeh ?! You can sit in the Tatev Monastery, and boasts of having destroyed 32 Tatar (Azerbaijani) villages. But I know who Nzhdeh is, when I was near him, he repeatedly turned to me with obscene offers, I feel sorry for you, there is a man above you who has the appearance of a man, and in nutria it’s a street prostitute. ”
                  After his final defeat in Zangezur, Nzhdeh flees abroad, in the 30s Nzhdeh moved to the United States, where he creates by ultra-right a fascist organization called “Tsegakron”.
                  Soviet investigators did not ignore the activities of Nzhdeh in the United States, as the indictment says: “In 1933. the accused Ter-Harutyunyan Garegin Egishevich specially went to America, where he organized the Tsegakron Dashnak youth organization, which preaches racism and is essentially a fascist youth organization. ”
                  Moreover, it must be emphasized that the investigator in the Nzhdeh case was an Armenian chief of the 3rd Division of the 1st Division of the Ministry of State Security of the Armenian SSR, Major Melkumyan.
                  Nzhdeh was sentenced to 25 years. He died in the Vladimir Central on December 21, 1955.
                  1. Karen
                    Karen 3 December 2017 15: 01
                    +2
                    Baden, Nzhde left Zangezur when the Bolsheviks agreed to leave this territory of Armenia.
                    Everyone knows about Nzhdeh's contempt for the top of the Dashnaks ... we are still unhappy with him and
                    Andranik that they did not cut out the Zionist elite of the ARF - this twin brother of the Bolsheviks ... these parties are like two boots of steam. By the way, Nzhdeh fought 120 Russian officers who remained here, not seeing their place in Bolshevik Russia ...
                    Nzhdeh carved villages? Few he was able to answer the enemy, there, in Baku, the Dashnaks rescued the Turks from the Bolshevik plans to slaughter the entire Turkic population in April 18th, and saw the opposite attitude to themselves six months later, when the Turks entered the city.
                    According to the Legion - I repeat - in SMERSH they knew better whether to execute Nzhdeh or not, you are no match for them in judging.
                    The nationality of the scouts in the MGB in those days did not play any role ... Only, perhaps, it would have helped the chief of security Beria, who requested that the espionage be removed from the conviction in favor of Turkey, since he was an Armenian.
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 3 December 2017 17: 06
                      +6
                      Quote: Karen
                      Nzhde left Za

                      It’s absolutely violet for me where he went, the fact that he slipped into the service of the Nazis, and because of this, if he is someone, a “hero” like the Nazis to the lackeys of me, I’ll exchange my grandfathers who have broken the back of the Nazis for dubious "memory" of all sorts of things, do not intend.
                      1. Karen
                        Karen 3 December 2017 17: 18
                        +2
                        Comrade badens,
                        I already told your goods before - you are no match for SMERSH and the MGB, but they put their rating Nzhde ... did not shoot !!!
        2. apro
          apro 3 December 2017 14: 01
          11
          Quote: Karen
          Why should I argue with you, if here these same Ganevskys gave our lands to the Turks, well, just like that ?! Moscow Treaty, for example.

          Ara, didn’t you try to fight for your land? But who is not to blame for the troubles of Armenia?
          1. Karen
            Karen 3 December 2017 15: 07
            +1
            I tried Nzhdeh with his 120 Russian officers ... in Russian sites they write that they killed 12000 Red Army soldiers ... something I can’t believe such a figure, even if I add to them killed Turks.
            1. apro
              apro 3 December 2017 15: 28
              +5
              So what did not win?
              1. Karen
                Karen 3 December 2017 16: 24
                +1
                The numerical strength did not allow ... there were many enemies: the Russian-Jewish-Turkish-Tatar millstones of Zionism.
                1. apro
                  apro 3 December 2017 16: 46
                  +6
                  And how did you manage to collect so many enemies? Well, at least the Soviet ones were kicked out easier. The truth is, the occupation base remained, well, God forbid, not for long.
                  1. Karen
                    Karen 3 December 2017 17: 20
                    +1
                    I don’t like that the Bolsheviks ascribe to themselves what the Stalinists did.
                    1. Was mammoth
                      Was mammoth 3 December 2017 17: 29
                      +5
                      Quote: Karen
                      I don’t like that the Bolsheviks ascribe to themselves what the Stalinists did.

                      Do you even know what the Communist Party was called under Stalin? VKP (b). Decrypt?
                      1. Karen
                        Karen 3 December 2017 17: 33
                        0
                        In the course, in the course - on non-Scientific communism in the diploma "excellent", and this is not from the fact that my father was the secretary of the party :)
        3. the lord
          the lord 3 December 2017 19: 00
          +4
          I’m going to ask you, why are you calling the lands that the Russians recaptured from the Turks yours? They really were not useful to us for anything, and it turned out so completely in the USSR to cling even more. And you were a great ballast. So - conquer all these lands yourself, return Ararat. And then you’ll do it for you, so you also roll out claims
          1. Karen
            Karen 3 December 2017 20: 35
            0
            This is the land that the Russians recaptured from the Turks and the Bolsheviks gave the Turks? Like, what did the Ararat donate to the Turks with the Moscow Treaty?
            Well, well.
            Sholom.
            1. the lord
              the lord 5 December 2017 02: 48
              +3
              Do not often beat like a brow, it will not be a head in the head. And you do not separate the Russians from the Bolsheviks, one suit. They wanted to repulse it when they dreamed of tsar-grad and so on, and then, when the situation got bogged down, they gave it in order not to feed anyone unknown there. like you upstart Dartanyans. Is it worth it to tear because of you)))))
  5. Nikitin
    Nikitin 3 December 2017 10: 12
    +4
    But why so abuse the "memoirs" of the Tsar’s counterintelligence officer Alexei Mezentsev, who, by definition cannot be objective in relation to current events?

    But Platten, who saved Ilych, of course, is the height of "objectivity" lol laughing
    It was for possession of weapons, and not for work for foreign intelligence, that the Swiss communist served time.

    A worthy payment was received by Platten, deserved.
    By the way, Ilic was arrested in Austria after the outbreak of the war, and a pistol was found during a search of this subject of a hostile Russia. But after a few days ... they let go to Switzerland! At this time, the interned unarmed Alekhine and other Russian chess players were beaten and interned.
    As the Austrian social democrat Franz Josef wrote in defense of Ilic, “It is necessary to let him go, he fought all his life with Russia!” And let go. “Just like that,” yeah.
    And through warring Germany, "just like that" was sent to Russia. Maybe the author will remember more similar cases in history?
    1. solzh
      solzh 3 December 2017 14: 35
      +6
      Learn the story. Thanks to people like you in our country, the civil is not over.
      1. Nikitin
        Nikitin 4 December 2017 14: 07
        +2
        Quote: solzh
        Learn the story. Thanks to people like you in our country, the civil is not over.

        Teach me Stories! yes
        Shaginyan read? Or Manyasha? Or A. Elizarova? yes
        Share Knowledge! hi
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 4 December 2017 16: 27
          +2
          Quote: Nikitin-
          Shaginyan read? Or Manyasha? Or A. Elizarova?

          Read Svanidze and Pivovarov with Sobchak and Chubais. They will be grateful to you for the lies you wrote.
          1. Nikitin
            Nikitin 5 December 2017 11: 18
            0
            Quote: badens1111
            Quote: Nikitin-
            Shaginyan read? Or Manyasha? Or A. Elizarova?

            Read Svanidze and Pivovarov with Sobchak and Chubais. They will be grateful to you for the lies you wrote.

            How will they be grateful to me? belay lol
    2. Monarchist
      Monarchist 3 December 2017 14: 57
      +2
      I do not know such facts
      1. Nikitin
        Nikitin 4 December 2017 14: 10
        0
        Quote: Monarchist
        I do not know such facts

        Arutyunov "Lenin's file without retouching." Fundamental work
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 4 December 2017 16: 36
          +2
          Quote: Nikitin-
          Arutyunov "Lenin's file without retouching."

          Fundamental nonsense. Are you tired of doing brachology? In addition to arutyunovs, shaginians and others like them, are you reading something?
          If you want to broaden your horizons, read the brochure "Lenin-Russians-Jews" (M., 1996, pp. 22-24) and think at your leisure who could benefit from giving AD Blanc a Jew. Maybe the very Zionists, whom both you and I do not really like?
          It makes absolutely no difference to me whether there were Jews among the ancestors of Lenin or not. And I stopped on this issue only because the nationalists, ignoring the facts, insist on the version that is more pleasant to them. Truth requires acknowledging that there is not just a hypothesis about two full namesakes Blanques, but also a documented historical study on this topic.
          (3) Valentinov N. “An Uncompleted Portrait”, M., 1993. from 365-366, as well as 387
          (4) "Search", N 37, September 17-23.09.93, 10. with. XNUMX.
          1. Nikitin
            Nikitin 5 December 2017 11: 13
            0
            Quote: badens1111
            Fundamental nonsense. Are you tired of doing brachology? In addition to arutyunovs, shaginians and others like them, are you reading something?

            You will refute the FACTS listed there first. Before that, you just do
            Quote: badens1111
            brechology
  6. midshipman
    midshipman 3 December 2017 10: 29
    13
    The ugly performance was on November 7, 2017. Takes fear for Russia. They did not show that the collapse of the Russian Empire is the work of the Anglo-Saxons and the collapse of the USSR is also their work. Our media and the Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation do not understand that the people still know the truth. 1% of the population of the Russian Federation currently owns 95% of the country's wealth. According to the laws of history, this will again lead to tragedy. I have the honor.
  7. sergo1914
    sergo1914 3 December 2017 10: 30
    18
    Normal people on Anniversary watched "Chapaev," "Amongst strangers, a stranger amongst their own," "White Sun of the Desert," "Seventh Bullet," "Man with a Gun," Let's Talk, Brother, "The Elusive Trilogy, Maxim Trilogy, “Adjutant of His Excellency”, “The Heart of Bonivur”, “Officers”, “Communist”, ... Damn ... how many wonderful films and wonderful actors.
    PS "Andromeda Nebula" is not a stranger to this list
  8. Whispering in the night
    Whispering in the night 3 December 2017 10: 58
    +2
    Quote: long in stock.
    and this instance, and so in a vacuum ... had the nerve to return after his last passages ....

    Don’t be nervous, copy .. wink
    1. long in stock.
      long in stock. 3 December 2017 16: 16
      +2
      it would be why ... well, certainly not from the instance that prudently deleted comments where it clearly showed how it relates to women ... an ordinary slug ..
      1. Whispering in the night
        Whispering in the night 3 December 2017 18: 47
        +1
        What kind of comments, to which women, you do not abuse vodka there for an hour, a copy? laughing
  9. Whispering in the night
    Whispering in the night 3 December 2017 11: 02
    +6
    In the group of emigrants who returned home with Lenin, out of 32 people were 19 Bolsheviks (N.K. Krupskaya, G.E. Zinoviev, I.F. Armand, D.S. Suliashvili, M. Tskhakaya, G. A Usievich et al.)


    What a cunning and thoughtful author of the article, he named only those emigrants from the sealed car whom the KGB ax did not touch later (with the exception of Zinoviev, it would be too ridiculous not to mention this closest ally of Lenin). But if we open the whole list of Bolsheviks who came with Lenin to make a revolution and analyze their further biographies, then a brain explosion is guaranteed for all the Reds. laughing
    1. Nikitin
      Nikitin 3 December 2017 13: 24
      +5
      Quote: Whispering in the night
      What a cunning and thoughtful author of the article, he named only those emigrants from the sealed carriage whom the KGB ax did not touch later

      The matter, it seems, is not only this: a list of RUSSIAN patriots yes -kommunistov Lenin wagon looked like this (except for those mentioned in the article):

      Abramovich Maya Zelikovna
      Eisenbund Meer Kivovich
      Goberman Mikhail Vulfovich
      Grebelskaya Fanya
      Kon Elena Feliksovna
      Linde Johann-Arnold Johannovich
      Miringof Ilya Davidovich
      Miringof Maria Efimovna
      Mortochkina Valentina Sergeevna (wife of Safarov)
      Payneson Semyon Gershovich
      Pogosskaya Bunya Hemovna (with son Reuben)
      Ravich Sarra Nakhumovna
      Sobelson Karl Bernhardovich
      Apfelbaum Zlata Evnovna
      Apfelbaum Stefan Ovsheevich
      Rivkin Zalman-Burke Oserovich
      Rosenblum David Mordukhovich
      Safarov (Voldin) Georgy Ivanovich
      Skovno Abram Anchilovich
      Slyusareva Nadezhda Mikhailovna
      Diamond Hirsch Yankelevich
      Suliashvili David Sokratovich
      Kharitonov Moses Motkovich
      1. solzh
        solzh 3 December 2017 14: 23
        +2
        ????? I did not understand your comment. What are you talking about?
        1. Nikitin
          Nikitin 4 December 2017 13: 55
          +1
          Quote: solzh
          ????? I did not understand your comment. What are you talking about?

          added to the list of passengers of the Lenin wagon, the author cited in truncated form. Surname-like last names .. request
          And you, in fact, what are you hinting at? belay
      2. Monarchist
        Monarchist 3 December 2017 14: 54
        +4
        No comments. Surnames speak for themselves
        1. solzh
          solzh 3 December 2017 15: 30
          +6
          Surnames, as surnames. This is about nothing. Black Hundreds is a bad thing, akin to Nazism. Nazism was Nuremberg
      3. Whispering in the night
        Whispering in the night 3 December 2017 18: 48
        +3
        Yeah, I'm not anti-Semite in any eye, but, damn it, some Gussians ... I will not say anything, in short ... lol
  10. Vintovkin
    Vintovkin 3 December 2017 11: 15
    +1
    Quote: Vasily50
    But just what to do with them in the context of an approaching war, but during a real war?

    Not a feint for ourselves .. and we have a damn winter - you’ll dig a trench of figs .. we won’t fight until summer, eh?
  11. solzh
    solzh 3 December 2017 11: 23
    +7
    Reading comments on the article, you understand that our society is still split, as in 1917.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 3 December 2017 15: 17
      +8
      Quote: solzh

      4
      solzh Today, 11:23 a New
      Reading comments on the article, you understand that our society is still split, as in 1917

      But can there really be unity with those who have robbed their people, who have privatized our bowels and our industry? And in general, Marxist science teaches that class differences will be overcome only under communism, when the line between city and country and between mental and physical labor are erased.
  12. Monarchist
    Monarchist 3 December 2017 14: 50
    +1
    "Lenin is a spy!" So much has been written on this subject that you can’t even list it.
    I will adhere to the facts: Lenin, how not to treat him, but he is a bright personality, and there are always few of them. Lenin, of course, did not write obligations: I promise to inform the Kaiser about all Russian secrets. At one time, Lenin met with Parvus, but we don’t know what they were talking about. Nikolai, intelligence chief of the Reichver, had contacts with the Bolsheviks (this was already on the site) and this is also a fact. And the last: of all the Russian political parties, only the Bolsheviks supported the defeat of tsarist Russia in the war with Germany (all Soviet history textbooks wrote about this) and this is also a fact. How to evaluate these facts is up to you. If someone does not agree with these facts, re-read Samsonov’s publications and all comments.
    1. Karen
      Karen 3 December 2017 15: 14
      +2
      The Brest "peace" clearly says - WHAT they said to Lenin there.
      1. solzh
        solzh 3 December 2017 15: 35
        +8
        Enlighten the ignoramus, what did Lenin say there?
      2. sibiryouk
        sibiryouk 3 December 2017 16: 59
        +5
        The Brest peace clearly says that Russia is tired and could no longer fight! It needed a respite, it was necessary to accumulate military force! I remind you that it was necessary to fight with the very GERMANS about whom there are a lot of articles in the military academy (about military art, combat training, military spirit, etc.)
        1. Karen
          Karen 3 December 2017 17: 10
          +1
          This is when the left boot of the revolutionaries - the Februaryists - ruined their army, and the right boot - the Bolsheviks - collapsed?
          Very reminiscent of 1991, when absolutely all the parties were corrupt at the top.
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 3 December 2017 17: 13
            +8
            Quote: Karen
            the Bolsheviks-ruined?

            So what did the Bolsheviks ruin there?
            Dashnakov bent and kicked out?
            Nzhda your in the Vladimir Central, rotted for crimes?
            So the Nazis are there and the road, but what your Dashnaks have done in 90, that's another question.
            1. Karen
              Karen 3 December 2017 17: 37
              +1
              Brotherhood with nemchuru and other movements of the Bolsheviks does not count?
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 3 December 2017 17: 48
                +8
                Lie less.
                The collapse of the front is the merit of the Provisional.
                It took a shock of slightly rotten foundations, a whole series of mistakes and crimes of the new government (that is, the Provisional Government in March-October 1917), a huge work of third-party influences, so that the inertia of peace finally turned into the inertia of movement, the bloody ghost of which will hang over the unfortunate one for a long time Russian land. Reasonable education was not opposed to external destructive influences in the army. Partly due to the political unpreparedness of the officer corps, partly due to the instinctive fear of the old regime to introduce elements of 'politics' into the barracks, if only for the purpose of criticizing the anti-state exercises. This fear, however, applies not only to the social and internal problems of Russian life, but also to foreign policy issues. ”
                http://www.chekist.ru/article/1546
                Yes, the same Antosha DENIKIN, Hating the Bolsheviks speaking indecently, nevertheless said who was to blame for the collapse of the army.
                Denikin:
                When they repeat at every step that the Bolsheviks were the cause of the collapse of the army, I protest. This is not true. The army was destroyed by others, and the Bolsheviks were just filthy worms that wound up in the abscesses of the army.

                The military legislation of the last 4 months has ruined the army. Those who, by an offensive irony of fate, perhaps honest and ideological, but completely not understanding the life and life of the army, who do not know the historical laws of its existence, have collapsed.

                Denikin. July 16, 1917. Memoirs.
                Read in full: http://yablor.ru/blogs/denikin-protiv-putina/4646
                997
                And finally, from the fact that Denikin was buried in Moscow, having dragged his bones from America, he did not become his own, his knizhentsiya, "How to defeat Russia," written in the USA, is known as a model of Judas who wanted to defeat the country.
                1. Karen
                  Karen 3 December 2017 20: 12
                  +1
                  Comrade badens, don’t bother ... I wrote earlier - there all the party bosses were corrupt ... the Februaryists were ruining the army, and their Bolshevik brothers were corrupt, finally breaking up so that the German calmly reached their destination ... And Brest "peace" oh how needed the Bolsheviks.
                  Sholom.
                  1. solzh
                    solzh 3 December 2017 22: 00
                    +3
                    Do not be a demagogue, provide evidence. I can advise you to read George Hill, where he writes that the whole story that the Bolsheviks work for Germany was developed by French Minister of Arms Albert Thom, and the performer was French intelligence captain Pierre Laurent.
                    1. Karen
                      Karen 3 December 2017 23: 10
                      +1
                      It makes no sense to me to read the British, remembering that they were the ones who had made friends with the Bolsheviks, while the French bought Kemal to counter the Bolsheviks and armed them so that he would drive the British out of Turkey for this. Well, how can I believe the British authors or the French atators if they have pathological deceit?
                      1. solzh
                        solzh 3 December 2017 23: 52
                        +3
                        You do not bring any evidence, except for words.
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 4 December 2017 02: 02
                        +2
                        solzh Karen:
                        "You give no evidence except words,"
                        Dear, do not take to heart, he still "does not catch up."
    2. solzh
      solzh 3 December 2017 15: 32
      +4
      You yourself are an American spy)))
    3. sibiryouk
      sibiryouk 3 December 2017 17: 02
      +4
      And what kind of intelligence information could the “German spy” get-Lenin, who had spent more than 10 years abroad RosIMperii, never served in the civil service, and had no connections with the state secrets?
    4. parusnik
      parusnik 3 December 2017 17: 11
      +3
      only the Bolsheviks advocated the defeat of tsarist Russia in the war with Germany
      ... I will tell you a little secret, the Serbian Social Democrats unanimously voted against the war .. The only socialist party in Europe who voted in the parliament of their country against the military budget.
    5. Snakebyte
      Snakebyte 3 December 2017 21: 30
      10
      Yeah, Lenin, who drove through Germany in a sealed carriage, a German spy.
      And Baron Wrangel, who arrived in Crimea on the super dreadnought "Emperor of India", is of course a hero and patriot of Russia.
    6. solzh
      solzh 4 December 2017 01: 38
      +6
      This is not a fact. The fact is that his phrase is pulled out and distorted. Read Lenin V.I. Complete Works Volume 26
      ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION OF ITS GOVERNMENT IN THE IMPERIALIST WAR. And if you read the cc without any prejudice, you will see and understand that Lenin spoke of a reactionary war, of losing the war not only to Russia, but also to Germany, France and other countries. He wrote and talked about the loss in the imperialist war of all countries and the establishment of revolutionary governments in all countries.
  13. tezey
    tezey 3 December 2017 15: 20
    12
    The film "Demon of the Revolution", like its brothers in the genre and ideological orientation of "Trotsky" and previously appeared on the screen, for example, "The death of the empire," have no relation to real history. These films can hardly be called feature films. But their essence must be called directly, what it is. This is the propaganda of anti-communism. And why in our country the authorities modestly did not want to celebrate the 100th anniversary of an event of global significance and why the citizens of the country were shown pseudo-historical fakes from the screen of the central television channels. The authorities of the new Russian capitalists must be blamed for everything connected with socialism and the 1917 revolution. And cinema is a very effective means of propaganda. After all, a citizen may have quite obvious questions. And what gentlemen of the market did you manage to do in 26 years of your rule and compare what Lenin, an agent of German imperialism, and his followers did in 26 years. So, so that the layman would not ask uncomfortable questions, he would not become interested in sources, statistics, foolish books on the subject of reading a historical surrogate with rotten meat. It’s scary to them. How it is. After all, we had a society here and recently in which there was no private appropriation of the results of social labor, a society in which there was no unemployment, a society in which education by ability was available to both the son of the janitor and the son of the minister, a society in which for the first time in history there was no racism and women got equal rights with men, a society which in the shortest possible time managed to create an economy that turned out to be stronger and more productive during the Second World War than almost the entire economy of Europe, Germany and its allies. This is the historical truth, which at least do not try. It is impossible to rewrite. As for the creators of these creations, directors, scriptwriters, actors, there is nothing to blame them for. They are the product of capitalism and their labor is the product that is bought. Such a product is in demand, and the buyer pays for it. And here it is not a matter of quality, but of the ordered ideological content. They will order to play tomorrow, that the Americans won the war, they will play, for a corresponding reward of course. So, there is nothing surprising. Outside the window is capitalism with its inherent laws.
    1. LeonidL
      LeonidL 4 December 2017 04: 44
      +1
      The whole trouble is that the choice of time and plots is not even accidental and works to split the society, to build up the situation before the elections. The trouble is that many in Russia now "teach" history not from full-fledged textbooks, but from those with permission to say "historical films."
  14. badens1111
    badens1111 3 December 2017 17: 19
    +3
    Karen,
    Your dead Nzhdeh in Turma.
    1. Karen
      Karen 3 December 2017 20: 15
      +2
      For Nzhdeh, the prison was a sanatorium ... Well, who would have let such a hero loose? !!
  15. the lord
    the lord 3 December 2017 19: 06
    0
    Karen,
    Karen,
    And most likely, from a thorough attachment to build prospects that will come true unknown or not. How got these dartanyans! and in the Russian Federation for Putin and in ruins - for Avakov and the company
  16. Doliva63
    Doliva63 3 December 2017 21: 54
    13
    Lenin is a genius who brought to life the people's dream of equality and fraternity. Lenin is a genius who gave way to Stalin to build the world's first socialist state. Lenin is a genius who knew how to maneuver, in the end always to achieve the desired result. He did not steal money, did not save gold "for a rainy day", did not have real estate even in Russia, not to mention foreign countries. Compare with the "leaders of public opinion" in the Russian Federation! They are all hired managers, from GDP to clown Volfycha. They have nothing beyond their souls ... Next - a list of real estate, but no benefit to future generations of the country, except for people like themselves.
  17. LeonidL
    LeonidL 4 December 2017 04: 36
    +6
    Regarding the "historical" authenticity of all the films "Iatilda", "Demon .." "Trotsky" ... you should not even shake the air - illiterate and offended. Matilda - could not be the "great love" of Nikolai Romanov. the girl played quite successfully the role of a sort of sexual simulator for the Romanov family, changing hands (jumping from bed to bed) and eventually married with the last lover in the chain. Nikolai, how low you do not rate him on the scale of mental and state values, in moral terms he was very neat and monogamous in nature. “Hessian fly” - to Alexander Fedorovna, really loved firmly and truly until his death, and Matilda simply did not have a place in his heart. Read how much he had to fly for the sake of marriage, Vel and Alexander the Third and Maya Fedorovna were categorically against marriage.
    Mezentsev’s diaries were trying to find, but the diaries of counterintelligence captain Mezentsev apparently did not exist in nature. Mezentsevs - yes, no counterintelligence. There are a lot of bloopers - it’s especially ridiculous when 1915 was called the most successful for the Russian army ... Bravo! Lenin met with Parvus once and drove him out; there is no other reliable information. If in 1915, as shown in the film, Krasin “stole” the bag with money, then it couldn’t be enough until October 1917, considering the modest size of the bag and galloping inflation ... After all, Kaiser gave Parvus billions! But Parvus after the war turned out to be far from poor. Well, with a sealed car. There were more than one such train passed through Germany, but it seems that five and far from the Bolsheviks rode them all. There was a minority of Bolsheviks there - the majority were Socialist-Revolutionaries, Mensheviks, anarchists, and so on and their family members. And, which is essential, always the Demon of the Revolution was not called Parvus, but Trotsky!
    "Trotsky" rests only on the game of two really different actors, I do not want to name their names in this context. The plot of the series is complete nonsense. However, the scenes in the brothel were written by the authors with love and knowledge of the matter! ... It is simply ridiculous that Stalin supposedly hated and killed Trotsky because of an unkempt hand !!!! But in this case, Bukharin, and Kamenev, Zinoviev, etc. didn’t shake his hand ... Full primitive!
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 4 December 2017 19: 36
      +5
      It’s like the American flag, but reason wisely drinks
  18. Dimmih
    Dimmih 4 December 2017 05: 48
    +1
    Kgm, the German Empire is at war with the Russian. And here, a full wagon of revolutionaries transits through Germany. And German intelligence is out of the question .... Guys, well, don’t do so bad about intelligence of the German Empire. This is how it is: 3. There should not be checks of papers or persons either at the entrance to Germany or at the exit from it. What a game. This is to what it is, if not a betrayal of the homeland of the carriage passengers? You won’t throw words out of a song. Germany had reason to think that the contingent was acting in their interests and that was the only thing that happened.
    1. the lord
      the lord 5 December 2017 02: 54
      +2
      The wagon came with essentially no jurisdiction under any jurisdiction and no territorial affiliation to anyone — a small neutral entity is a feature of a large European politician. Nowhere else in the world, except the United States, would this be impossible, but in Europe it is easy. Read the article carefully, especially there. which points to various documents that emphasized the lack of control of any special services of travel to Russia and especially about the credit line from the French Communists to food for those who were in the car.
      Back to the motherland is treason to the motherland? Sober up from your anti-Soviet, I suppose the ancestors served in the Red Army ...
  19. Dimmih
    Dimmih 4 December 2017 05: 49
    +2
    Quote: Doliva63
    Lenin is a genius who brought to life the people's dream of equality and fraternity. Lenin is a genius who gave way to Stalin to build the world's first socialist state. Lenin is a genius who knew how to maneuver, in the end always to achieve the desired result. He did not steal money, did not save gold "for a rainy day", did not have real estate even in Russia, not to mention foreign countries. Compare with the "leaders of public opinion" in the Russian Federation! They are all hired managers, from GDP to clown Volfycha. They have nothing beyond their souls ... Next - a list of real estate, but no benefit to future generations of the country, except for people like themselves.

    The fact that Lenin is a genius is undeniable. But not all geniuses are equally useful. The Germans also had their own genius.
  20. Dimmih
    Dimmih 4 December 2017 05: 54
    +2
    Quote: badens1111
    Dashnaks bent and kicked out?

    Standing applaud! These are the words, of course, of a cultured and sane person without problems in the field of reproduction!
  21. Dimmih
    Dimmih 5 December 2017 04: 43
    +1
    Quote: znavel
    The wagon came with essentially no jurisdiction under any jurisdiction and no territorial affiliation to anyone — a small neutral entity is a feature of a large European politician. Nowhere else in the world, except the United States, would this be impossible, but in Europe it is easy. Read the article carefully, especially there. which points to various documents that emphasized the lack of control of any special services of travel to Russia and especially about the credit line from the French Communists to food for those who were in the car.
    Back to the motherland is treason to the motherland? Sober up from your anti-Soviet, I suppose the ancestors served in the Red Army ...

    Dear Interlocutor, the uncontrollability of the contents of a carriage traveling through one warring country to another country fighting against it is wild game, in which to believe is the same as to believe in the infallibility of the Lord Navalny. If a person wants to believe in the infallibility and grace of any historical figure, this is his business, but when you announce it on the forum, be prepared that you will not agree with you. And where my ancestors served there, the matter is dark and has nothing to do with Lenin, the carriage and German intelligence. The characters traveling in the carriage went to where they went only because it was in the interests of the German Empire and was detrimental to the interests of the Russian Empire. It would be the other way round would happen to them as in the song "And no one will know where your grave is ..." Which, however, does not cancel the fact that Lenin was hostile in both empires and wished there were no empires at all. But you can’t throw words out of a song, treason to the Motherland in its purest form.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 5 December 2017 12: 43
      +1
      Quote: Dimmih
      the contents of the carriage traveling through one warring country to another country fighting with it is wild game,

      Did the car go to Russia? He went to Sweden.
  22. Dimmih
    Dimmih 5 December 2017 13: 41
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Dimmih
    the contents of the carriage traveling through one warring country to another country fighting with it is wild game,

    Did the car go to Russia? He went to Sweden.

    Isn't it a war? And then some kind of carriage with mysterious passengers. At the expense of the direction of movement, I admit my mistake. Lenin wanted defeat in the war of the Russian Empire, this is a fact. And he did everything for this, too, a fact. My great-grandfather went missing in 1914. leaving a wife with 8 children. That is life. You can’t love the homeland and do disgust to the state at the same time. It is just as if during the war of 1812. peasants massively helped the French. The oppressed class, but no, did not go for it. What to take from them is dark people. A. V.I. Ulyanov is an educated intellectual, but on you he distinguished himself. Refute.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 5 December 2017 16: 31
      +1
      Quote: Dimmih
      Lenin wanted defeat in the war of the Russian Empire

      IN AND. Lenin did not advocate the defeat of Russia, but the defeat of the tsarist government, and it was not Lenin who was guilty of missing your grandfather, but the tsarist government that dragged Russia into this senseless war. So Lenin opposed the war, which killed many grandfathers, including yours. And it was Lenin who stopped this massacre, which saved more than one million such grandfathers.
      Quote: Dimmih
      You can’t love the homeland and do disgust to the state at the same time. It is just as if during the war of 1812. peasants massively helped the French. The oppressed class, but no, did not go for it. What to take from them is dark people. A. V.I. Ulyanov is an educated intellectual, but on you he distinguished himself. Refute.

      Homeland and state are not the same thing. The homeland is the land where you were born and where you were raised, and the state is the apparatus of violence and suppression, and the monarchical and bourgeois state is the apparatus of suppression of the majority by the minority.
      In order to understand the difference between the wars of 1812 and 1914, it would also not hurt you to study dialectics. In 1812 there was no proletariat, which had nothing to lose besides its chains, and in 1914 it was, and did not want to die for the interests of others.
      1. Dimmih
        Dimmih 6 December 2017 06: 42
        +1
        Dear Interlocutor, V.I. Ulyanov has little to do with stopping the First World War. But this is only my point of view and I recognize your right to your point of view. As for your statement that the Motherland and the state are not the same ..... This is only partly true, for example, the religious doctrine of the lack of integrity and inseparability of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit: it is difficult to say where one ends and the other begins. So it is with the homeland and the state. That is why some tsarist generals served the proletarian state — they served the motherland, albeit under a different name. With regards to my ignorance of Hegel's works, I do not deny it, I suspect that you did not read them either. About the war of 1812. I don’t agree with you, there was an oppression of cretanism, there were uprisings, but they did not support the French, although it seems to be here, freedom, equality, fraternity. The proletariat has nothing to do with it. Read historical documents, or even excerpts from them, after the revolution, the proletariat began to live worse than before, as evidenced by their letters to the newspaper Pravda. Excerpts from them are available in a three-volume textbook on the history of Russia edited by Sakharov.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 6 December 2017 12: 36
          +2
          Quote: Dimmih
          IN AND. Ulyanov has little to do with stopping the First World War.

          You are not right.
          1. V.I. Lenin, leading Soviet Russia, led the country out of the war and demobilized the army.
          2. It doesn’t matter what the tsar’s general’s motivation was, it doesn’t affect the identity of the categories of the Homeland and the state. I approach this question from a class standpoint, and not from a clerical one. In the bourgeois state, the proletariat does not have its own country, because he is not the master in him, he has no property, but as soon as Soviet power was established, the proletarians became patriots.
          3. In 1812, the proletariat "just what" - it simply did not exist. The peasants, in spite of the fact that they were oppressed, had a different ideology, this was influenced by both their property and the historical memory of the medieval wars that were waged to destroy the people, both aristocracy and common people perished in them. Therefore, at that time, the people were united. Bourgeois, imperialist wars are waged for the redivision of the world, only commoners and not a single bourgeois perish in them, so the unity of the people is no longer there.
  23. Dimmih
    Dimmih 6 December 2017 13: 40
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Dimmih
    IN AND. Ulyanov has little to do with stopping the First World War.

    You are not right.
    1. V.I. Lenin, leading Soviet Russia, led the country out of the war and demobilized the army.
    2. It doesn’t matter what the tsar’s general’s motivation was, it doesn’t affect the identity of the categories of the Homeland and the state. I approach this question from a class standpoint, and not from a clerical one. In the bourgeois state, the proletariat does not have its own country, because he is not the master in him, he has no property, but as soon as Soviet power was established, the proletarians became patriots.
    3. In 1812, the proletariat "just what" - it simply did not exist. The peasants, in spite of the fact that they were oppressed, had a different ideology, this was influenced by both their property and the historical memory of the medieval wars that were waged to destroy the people, both aristocracy and common people perished in them. Therefore, at that time, the people were united. Bourgeois, imperialist wars are waged for the redivision of the world, only commoners and not a single bourgeois perish in them, so the unity of the people is no longer there.

    I will answer the same on points: 1) V.I. Lenin led the country out of the war ending in favor of the state and lost the territory of Finland (one example). Refute. 2) It is impossible to say exactly where the Motherland ends and the state begins. At least from class positions, even from non-class. In any case, I do not know how to separate, and those who know how are unknown to me. 3) What kind of property do you speak of state and serf peasants? Jesus, the status of a serf peasant, and such was the majority in the central provinces, implied that he owned the property and often sold separately from his family !!!! Historical memory, justification for its existence, please.
    1. Whispering in the night
      Whispering in the night 6 December 2017 17: 48
      0
      I would add. Lenin led the country out of the victorious war and plunged it into a bloody abyss of civil war for several years. Lenin created the state of Ukraine (albeit within the Union. But with borders and with a constitutional right of exit) and gave him a bunch of territories, including the Donbass, which is still paying with blood.
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 6 December 2017 20: 40
        0
        Quote: Whispering in the night
        I would add .....

        They have already explained everything to you so many times, but you add and add everything, and all the same. As I understand it, it’s useless to explain to you. Until you take up the position of the working class, you still will not understand anything.
        1. Whispering in the night
          Whispering in the night 6 December 2017 22: 12
          0
          I regard this answer only as a recognition of the absence of real arguments.

          About the "working class" smiled. The German working class remembered something at once, tormenting our Motherland for four years and spilling an incredible amount of innocent blood. In the coffin, you know, I also saw such a working class in white slippers ..
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 7 December 2017 01: 15
            +1
            Quote: Whispering in the night
            In the coffin, you know, I also saw such a working class in white slippers ..

            That is why it is useless for you to explain anything. You are the most “smart”, and “smart” to learn - only to spoil.
            1. long in stock.
              long in stock. 7 December 2017 08: 04
              +1
              yeah. they are so smart that they remember about Finland and who lost Poland, they don’t remember ... and how much the public debt of the Russian Empire grew, they don’t remember either .. why do they need it?
    2. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 6 December 2017 20: 32
      +2
      Quote: Dimmih
      1) V.I. Lenin led the country out of the war ending in favor of the state and lost the territory of Finland (one example). Refute.

      A dubious thesis, the war has not yet ended and more than one million lives would have been destroyed. Yes, and about the benefits to Russia, it is also doubtful, even if the Allies fought to a victorious end, they would not give her anything and put up for repayment of the loans that the tsarist government gained.
      About Finland. Tell me, why do you need Finland?
      As for the identity of the homeland and the state. If you are an oligarch and a deputy of the State Duma, then this is the same for you, but if you are a worker, then no. Example, for Poroshenko and deputies of the Verkhovna Rada Ukraine-Motherland and the Ukrainian state are the same because the suppression machine is the state in their hands, and the common people do not want such a state, because it suppresses it.
      About serfs, are you not aware of the fact that the peasants and their house had their own allotment, and a horse and a cow and plow?
      And the historical memory remained in the folklore genre, and in proverbs like "An uninvited guest is worse than a Tatar.
  24. Dimmih
    Dimmih 7 December 2017 04: 39
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Dimmih
    1) V.I. Lenin led the country out of the war ending in favor of the state and lost the territory of Finland (one example). Refute.

    A dubious thesis, the war has not yet ended and more than one million lives would have been destroyed. Yes, and about the benefits to Russia, it is also doubtful, even if the Allies fought to a victorious end, they would not give her anything and put up for repayment of the loans that the tsarist government gained.
    About Finland. Tell me, why do you need Finland?
    As for the identity of the homeland and the state. If you are an oligarch and a deputy of the State Duma, then this is the same for you, but if you are a worker, then no. Example, for Poroshenko and deputies of the Verkhovna Rada Ukraine-Motherland and the Ukrainian state are the same because the suppression machine is the state in their hands, and the common people do not want such a state, because it suppresses it.
    About serfs, are you not aware of the fact that the peasants and their house had their own allotment, and a horse and a cow and plow?
    And the historical memory remained in the folklore genre, and in proverbs like "An uninvited guest is worse than a Tatar.

    You are right, I do not need Finland. You can’t stick the cut chunk back. Now already. But the fact is a stubborn thing - the territory of the state has decreased significantly. Meanwhile, this is the land bought by blood. As there Poroshenko and others, you know better living in Ukraine. In Russia, it is not possible to draw a clear divide between the Motherland and the authorities in Russia, or let the owners of Russian accounts on the forum refute me. As for the property of serfs. A colleague, those who themselves were goods did not have property. The serf peasant could get rich, this was, but the landowner at any moment could appropriate everything because legally it was his property. It's like your cat will get rich, but it’s your cat and your wealth is also because the cat has no legal rights to own property and cannot be. As for historical memory, I will tell you that the peasants knew more about biblical history than the Russian state.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 7 December 2017 10: 24
      +1
      Quote: Dimmih
      We, in Russia, carry out clearly the divide between the homeland and the government is not possible, or let the owners of Russian accounts on the forum refute me.

      I am surprised that this is impossible for you, are you really built into power or do you have candle factories?
      For example, the chairman of the Union of Workers of Sevastopol, Valery Bolshakov, shares this well. On November 14 this year, officers of the Investigative Committee and the FSB of "his native authority" came to his apartment with a search. They introduced themselves as locksmiths and asked to open the door, allegedly because it was flooding the neighbors. Well, after he refused to open the door, the security forces cracked it. Bolshakov himself was brutally beaten, he needed ambulance, the apartment was searched, the registration documents of the political party “Russian United Labor Front”, the Sevastopol regional branch and the party press were seized.
      And before that, his mother was beaten ...
      1. long in stock.
        long in stock. 7 December 2017 11: 06
        +1
        Well, it’s already visible even to a blind person where we’re going to drive ... people start to think that tomorrow will be. Here they are trying to twist the nuts ..
      2. Whispering in the night
        Whispering in the night 7 December 2017 13: 04
        0
        Quote: Alexander Green
        On November 14 this year, officers of the Investigative Committee and the FSB of "his native authority" came to his apartment with a search. They introduced themselves as locksmiths and asked to open the door, allegedly because it was flooding the neighbors. Well, after he refused to open the door, the security forces cracked it ..


        Eka was never seen, the communist was tied up, but to remind you, how many of these Bolshakovs during the time of the Great Terror did their “native power” knit directly into the next world or in the Gulag for years and decades?
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 7 December 2017 13: 43
          +1
          Quote: Whispering in the night
          Eka not seen, the communist tied ...

          I see that you won’t be surprised at anything, but you still had a candlestick, since the Gulag still does not give rest.
          1. Whispering in the night
            Whispering in the night 7 December 2017 16: 53
            0
            Quote: Alexander Green
            you still had a candlelight, since the Gulag still does not give rest.

            You flatter me, I'm not so long-lived, however, that’s not the point. You are pouring tears one at a time to Bolshakov, and I give you an example of a thousand of the same ideological red Bolshakovs, including those who directly did October and then defended it in Civil. And Putin’s gebnya against the background of Stalin’s gebnya in terms of destroyed or planted communists are just children, you know ..))
  25. Dimmih
    Dimmih 7 December 2017 12: 54
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Dimmih
    We, in Russia, carry out clearly the divide between the homeland and the government is not possible, or let the owners of Russian accounts on the forum refute me.

    I am surprised that this is impossible for you, are you really built into power or do you have candle factories?
    For example, the chairman of the Union of Workers of Sevastopol, Valery Bolshakov, shares this well. On November 14 this year, officers of the Investigative Committee and the FSB of "his native authority" came to his apartment with a search. They introduced themselves as locksmiths and asked to open the door, allegedly because it was flooding the neighbors. Well, after he refused to open the door, the security forces cracked it. Bolshakov himself was brutally beaten, he needed ambulance, the apartment was searched, the registration documents of the political party “Russian United Labor Front”, the Sevastopol regional branch and the party press were seized.
    And before that, his mother was beaten ...

    And you are a provocateur, sir, at least in part, Bolshakov’s mother was beaten in 2013. when Sevastopol in particular and Crimea in general was under whose authority? Here is a link for you and those who believed you http://sevastopol.su/news/delo-ob-izbienii-moey-m
    ateri-razvalivayut-umyshlenno-predsedatel-soyuza-
    rabochih-sevastopolya For those who are too lazy to read: Valery Bolshakov opened the conference, recalling the events related to the brutal beating of his sixty-eight-year-old mother Lyudmila Vladimirovna Bolshakova on September 6 this year in a man whom neither he nor his mother had ever known before did not see. I suspected you of some eloquence, but you turned out to be a provocateur. As for Bolshakov himself and his Front company, it is necessary to shovel the Internet in order to collect information about it from various sources. I feel your berry in your field .... Sufferer from all modes with help. The commies (not to be confused with the Communists) are usually hung up labels, like the flocks of Lord Navalny, hence your attacks about where I am built there and about my vast plants. But I, you Shkodnik, have caught you!
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 7 December 2017 14: 09
      0
      Quote: Dimmih
      But I, you Shkodnik, have caught you!

      Do not overdo it, otherwise the navel will loosen up, and there is no need to hysteria, better remember what we had a conversation about. We talked about the non-identity of the concepts of Homeland and the state, and I gave you an example with Bolshakov. And you all distorted.
      It is necessary to read carefully, otherwise you started to catch the "shkodnik" without reading the information to the end. And here it says:
      "... Sevastopol security officials tried to crack down on the working leader while the Ukrainian authorities were in Crimea. In 2013, mother was brutally beaten by a non-staff member of the Security Service of Ukraine Valeria Bolshakova Lyudmila Vladimirovna Bolshakova. Most likely, the murder of Lyudmila Vladimirovna was being prepared, with the aim of removing her son from the political arena. That is, it was planned to accuse Valery Bolshakov of killing his mother, to discredit him as a politician and to rot in prison. But something went wrong with them, L.V. Bolshakova remained alive, she told everything as it was, and the performer was lit up in full. The crime is there, but Ukrainian authorities were in no hurry to plant the criminal. Much hope for justice appeared Valery Valerievich with the advent of the new Russian government. But things are still there. The same people who used to serve in the SBU remained in the police and the FSB. And they have the same attitude towards workers' organizations, they are not going to hand over their own.
      A court took place at which the police officer who beat Lyudmila Vladimirovna Bolshakova was officially declared insane and released from liability. That's just Valery Valerievich does not calm down. Looking for the truth. For this he was attacked several times in uninhabited places. Bolshakov recognized in one of the Rosgvardeytsev a man who had attacked him on the street twice this year, dressed in civilian clothes. ”
      This suggests that those who served in the SBU and crushed the people today serve in the FSB and do the same.
      .
    2. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 7 December 2017 14: 24
      +1
      You can read all this information on the website.
      http://proletaire.ucoz.ru/publ/klassovaja_borba/m
      etody_zhandarmov_odinakovy_i_na_ukraine_i_v_rossi
      i / 4-1-0-101
      1. Dimmih
        Dimmih 8 December 2017 04: 34
        +1
        No, before we discuss the navels and other things, let's deal with the source information, verbatim, copy your message: on November 14 of this year, officers of the Investigative Committee and the FSB of "his native authority" came to his apartment with a search. They introduced themselves as locksmiths and asked to open the door, allegedly because it was flooding the neighbors. Well, after he refused to open the door, the security forces cracked it. Bolshakov himself was brutally beaten, he needed ambulance, the apartment was searched, the registration documents of the political party “Russian United Labor Front”, the Sevastopol regional branch and the party press were seized.
        And before that, his mother was beaten ...
        It is clear to anyone who speaks Russian in the volume of primary school that it is written in black and white: a fitter from the FSB beat a certain Bolshakov, and before that his mother. After that, I give you firsthand the link where it says that the mother of the person involved was beaten (possibly) in 2013. In what state was this, young man, what did the FSB have to do with it? After that, you suggest that I recall what the conversation was about .... Hmm, I’m not the only one on the forum here who’s not blind and your message definitely doesn’t imply a different interpretation. once lied, who will believe you? You are a provocateur caught by the hand, and the message is concocted according to the classical scheme: a bit of truth is added to the bucket of lies. But in the era of the Internet, anyone can check it, copy-paste-input. Total and business.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 8 December 2017 14: 05
          0
          Quote: Dimmih
          the message is cooked up according to the classical scheme: a bit of truth is added to the bucket of lies

          Well, and where do you see a bucket of lies and a bit of truth? Read carefully my comment and Statement by the Secretariat of the Central Committee of the ROT FRONT.
          First of all. Our conversation was with you about why the homeland and the state are not the same thing, and I gave you an example to confirm. But for you the stumbling block was not the issue under discussion, but my mention of the beating of the activist’s mother.
          But if you are such a great analyst, then you probably should have paid attention to the fact that I wrote about the beating of my mother with ellipsis. Later I wanted to tell you more about this.
          Second. The facts confirm everything that I wrote.
          Fact One: FSB locksmith harassed and beat a working activist.
          Fact Two: the same locksmith from the FSB before the annexation of Crimea served in SBU.
          The fact that a third the same locksmith while serving in the SBU, the activist’s mother was beaten.
          The beating of the mother occurred before the beating of the activist, which I mentioned in passing, writing “before this” with ellipses. And the fact that you did not correctly interpret my comment is your personal grief.
          So don’t make yourself a great analyst, all you can do is make an elephant out of a fly.

          PS The question is not worth a damn.
          1. Dimmih
            Dimmih 9 December 2017 07: 04
            +1
            Sir, anyone who carefully reads my bickering with you will easily notice that, having made a mistake in the presentation, you are trying to avoid the direct answer with verbosity and streams of water. Again -You often use the word fact. I caught you on one, after which you started pouring water and writing compositions. First, you dragged the FSB to the beating of the mother of the person involved, although that was when the Crimea was Ukrainian. What is a lie. You do not write anywhere in the initial message that the lady was hacked in Ukraine. What does the ellipsis have to do with it? What does ellipsis mean? Does it mean that the sentence ended with an ellipsis implies the date of 2013? and the place of action is Ukraine? No! In the message above, you write, the same locksmith beat the activist ... You are pleased to provide evidence from unrelated sources. No, you are not a communist, or even a commie, an ordinary yellow-bloc provocateur. The ellipsis ..... Jesus, in our age of the Internet, to write obviously easily refuted nonsense is to be extremely presumptuous.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 9 December 2017 18: 43
              0
              For Dimmih
              First, the you already decide somehow with me: am I a provocateur or not?
              And then the readers will not understand, you contradict yourself.
              I quote your speculation “... whoever carefully reads my bickering with you will easily notice that having made an error in the statement, You are verbosity and streams of water trying to get away from a direct answer ... "
              And further: “You are neither a communist nor even a commie, ordinary yellow-blakit provocateur».
              By this you confirm that you made an elephant out of a fly.

              Second, the I understand why you are so zealous and even insist that I acknowledge, at least partially, at least a little bit (I quote your writings “Are you a provocateur, sir, at least in part, ... "), but still I am a provocateur.
              You have a personal interest here, you registered on November 5 this year specifically to troll the 100th anniversary of the Great October Socialist Revolution, and earn extra money on it.

              And, for the exposure of the left "provocateur", as I understand it, you are entitled to a prize, but you have announced to your Western masters that you have caught the provocateur by your hand, but you cannot prove the provocation. You obviously have problems translating the phrase "Before that", Western masters do not want to understand it as you understood.

              If "Before that" translate into English, then it translates as before that which everyone understands as "BEFORE", I.e. for them it could be 2013, and six months before the events described, and two days, so they don’t understand why, the words quoted, "Before that" is provocative, as the mother was really beaten before her son.

              Therefore, I sympathize with you, "The premium was covered in the quarter", but you yourself are to blame, do not write fabrications.

              PS By the way, in what period of time did you “evaluate” the phrase “before this”, reporting to your owners? One week, one day, or right at the door?
              1. Dimmih
                Dimmih 10 December 2017 08: 56
                0
                By verbosity and labeling you expose yourself. Western hosts, premium, English ..... What a miserable level of provocateur! Read, learn, your profession requires a broad outlook, otherwise sn is enough for doshirak.
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 10 December 2017 10: 47
                  0
                  Quote: Dimmih
                  By verbosity and labeling you expose yourself.

                  No, dear, it is you who have succeeded in labeling. I have never even named you in any way, I just described your actions, how it looks from the outside, because they are judged not by labels, but by their deeds. What have you done? You tried to turn a fly into an elephant, and now in frustrated feelings. I sympathize: they didn’t believe you, they didn’t pay, but I warned that the question of the eaten egg is not worth it, and you all dug, dug, hoped to cut the dough, turned all the logic inside out.
  26. Dimmih
    Dimmih 11 December 2017 04: 30
    0
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Dimmih
    By verbosity and labeling you expose yourself.

    No, dear, it is you who have succeeded in labeling. I have never even named you in any way, I just described your actions, how it looks from the outside, because they are judged not by labels, but by their deeds. What have you done? You tried to turn a fly into an elephant, and now in frustrated feelings. I sympathize: they didn’t believe you, they didn’t pay, but I warned that the question of the eaten egg is not worth it, and you all dug, dug, hoped to cut the dough, turned all the logic inside out.

    Be fair under the label that I supplied you with, from your own words I justified the rationale backed up by a link, and you went to smash: premium, paid, not paid. Well, right, baby-kindergarten. I repeat once again, anyone with eyes to read, your original message and my answer to it will immediately understand everything. Provocateur You are inexperienced, learn materiel, there will be fewer such mistakes. About my award, give evidence, a photo of a payment document to the studio. You can’t back up your words with anything but a class flair, so it would be a provocateur-balabol. Not?
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 11 December 2017 11: 43
      0
      Quote: Dimmih
      Be fair, I’m under the label with which I supplied you, from your own words I justified the rationale backed by a link ...

      Everything is numb to you, again you beg to agree that I am a provocateur, well, they will not pay you anything, they will not pay. Sucked from a finger, exposing, no one cares.

      Quote: Dimmih
      anyone with eyes to read, your original message and my answer to it will immediately understand everything

      I am sure of this, because I didn’t even make a mistake, I wrote without any back thought, and you have inflated it to a gigantic scale, so smart people will understand your vain attempts, starting from November 5, correctly.
  27. Dimmih
    Dimmih 11 December 2017 12: 59
    0
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Dimmih
    Be fair, I’m under the label with which I supplied you, from your own words I justified the rationale backed by a link ...

    Everything is numb to you, again you beg to agree that I am a provocateur, well, they will not pay you anything, they will not pay. Sucked from a finger, exposing, no one cares.

    Quote: Dimmih
    anyone with eyes to read, your original message and my answer to it will immediately understand everything

    I am sure of this, because I didn’t even make a mistake, I wrote without any back thought, and you have inflated it to a gigantic scale, so smart people will understand your vain attempts, starting from November 5, correctly.

    Darling, who begs you? Just take the matter seriously, a qualified provocateur deserves professional respect, and you have a kindergarten. You are not asked to tie up with your work, but you are asked to work steadily on a professional level, the founders read and critics read them. In general, engage in self-education-life will not ask what you taught, it will ask what you know.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 11 December 2017 17: 34
      0
      Quote: Dimmih
      Darling, who begs you? Just take the matter seriously, a qualified provocateur deserves professional respect, and you have a kindergarten.

      Dear, calm down already, don’t you understand that your perseverance only confirms that the price of the issue is very high for you, but most importantly, it indicates that you are a professional provocateur, and at the same time very experienced, you have a police grip, several once you return to one and the same question - what if the person being pressured will let slip and get pierced in something, and then you can concoct a case.
      See how simple forum members do. They, if they do not understand something, specify, and instead of asking when it was, you hastened to expose. Well, do you really think that those who read your nonsense do not see that everything that you accuse me of is sewn with white thread?
      1. Dimmih
        Dimmih 11 December 2017 17: 43
        0
        You answer primitively, of course, but you know the principle "The best defense is an attack." M-yes, for the C grade, for the frail C grade you work. Note, I have never reproached you for work on a paid basis, but through a word-candle factory you have built-in power, the price is very high .... You, like flocks of Olesha Navalny, blurted out, but they can’t justify. Nevertheless, I ask you to provide irrefutable evidence of my professional activity, such as the tasks of the party and government, payment documents with bank notes, etc. Where? Is there in nature? If there is, make public, if not, you are a talker.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 11 December 2017 19: 04
          0
          Quote: Dimmih
          Nevertheless, I ask you to provide irrefutable evidence of my professional activity, such as the tasks of the party and government, payment documents with bank notes, etc. Where? Is there in nature? If there is, make public, if not, you are a talker.

          Dear, you know that your statements are closed, and I will not be able to publish them. Therefore, why this primitive manipulation? I am even uncomfortable for you; this once again confirms that you are provoking me, you do not even think that your methods are giving you away.
          Stop already, you have exposed yourself enough. All forum readers have long understood that you are a former law enforcement officer, now a quiet pensioner, but because "Ex" does not exist, then you are now striving as a petty provocateur.
          In a word, goodbye.
  28. Dimmih
    Dimmih 12 December 2017 04: 49
    0
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Dimmih
    Nevertheless, I ask you to provide irrefutable evidence of my professional activity, such as the tasks of the party and government, payment documents with bank notes, etc. Where? Is there in nature? If there is, make public, if not, you are a talker.

    Dear, you know that your statements are closed, and I will not be able to publish them. Therefore, why this primitive manipulation? I am even uncomfortable for you; this once again confirms that you are provoking me, you do not even think that your methods are giving you away.
    Stop already, you have exposed yourself enough. All forum readers have long understood that you are a former law enforcement officer, now a quiet pensioner, but because "Ex" does not exist, then you are now striving as a petty provocateur.
    In a word, goodbye.

    Right, right, hit the enemy with his own weapons, master the tools gradually, but you still need to grow and grow. The fact is that I, using your words and sources from the Internet, citing a link, bring you to the light of God. And you: the statements are closed, a quiet pensioner, there are no ex, all readers of the forum .... Facts where, where are the facts, baby? Netuti .... Primitively, to her. Let's burn, cover the lack of arguments with the flood screens. But anyone who reads your original message and my answer to it will immediately understand everything.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 12 December 2017 20: 52
      0
      Quote: Dimmih
      But anyone who reads your original message and my answer to it will immediately understand everything.

      Dear, I already wrote you goodbye, but you can’t calm down and keep on whining. I understand that there is nothing to do in retirement, it’s boring, but how much can you procrastinate the same thing. It is not interesting, especially since you are repeating, I quote you:
      Yesterday, 04:30 (11.12.17) "... anyone who has read his eyes, Your original message and my answer to it will immediately understand everything»
      Today, 04:49 (12.12.17) "... anyone who reads Your original message and my answer to it will immediately understand everything. ”
      Well, they will read our correspondence, well, they will understand, but it is not a fact that they will understand the way you want. Therefore, I say "goodbye" to you.

      PS I want to caution you not to become completely bored, because women don’t like them, they say about them that it’s easier to give than refuse, and Nikita Mikhalkov doesn’t like them at all, he says: “T-f- on you. "
  29. Karen
    Karen 14 December 2017 08: 18
    0
    At the numerous requests of the Bolshevik comrades, I give documentary evidence of their peace-loving policy ... and in fact at the very beginning it was clearly highlighted in the publication of the secret agreements of tsarism with the allies on the division of future conquests; and the Bolsheviks, for example, could act without any agreements there - according to agreements and concepts ...
    And for our people, the Bolsheviks simply prepared paradise, in their understanding, naturally ... Here is what the “most humane person” wrote: “The individual requirements of democracy, including self-determination, are not absolute ... the interests of the liberation of several large and largest peoples of Europe are above the interests the liberation movement of small nations ... ”

    In the newspaper Life of Nationalities, the organ of the People’s Commissariat, the mouthpiece of Stalin, the Bolshevik Al. He abruptly wrote: “... Armenia will certainly have to be guided by the Leninist principle of the greatest national donations ... For the time being, Armenia has no choice but to reconcile with this and sacrifice the interests of the world revolution and the former territories and the groups of their people left there. Armenia will have to abandon not only the territories it claimed, but even those that were already part of independent Armenia. ”
    The following document highlights Lenin’s peacemaking for yesterday’s enemies of the Republic of Ingushetia (later he simply gave Shaumyan a command to leave Baku) ...

    TELEGRAM TO JV STALIN

    Secretly
    To Stalin
    Tsaritsyn

    Today, June 30, a message was received from Ioffe from Berlin that Kühlman had a preliminary conversation with Ioffe. From this conversation it is clear that the Germans agree to force the Turks to stop military operations beyond the Brest border, having established an exact demarcation line for us. They promise not to let the Turks in Baku, but wish to receive oil. Joffe replied that we will strictly adhere to Brest, but we completely agree with the principle of giving in order to receive. Pay special attention to this message and try to pass it on to Shaumyan as soon as possible, because now there are serious chances to keep Baku. Part of the oil, of course, we will give.

    Lenin

    Written June 30, 1918

    First published in 1959 in Lenin's collection XXXVI

    Printed by telegraph tape
  30. Dimmih
    Dimmih 14 December 2017 12: 05
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Dimmih
    But anyone who reads your original message and my answer to it will immediately understand everything.

    Dear, I already wrote you goodbye, but you can’t calm down and keep on whining. I understand that there is nothing to do in retirement, it’s boring, but how much can you procrastinate the same thing. It is not interesting, especially since you are repeating, I quote you:
    Yesterday, 04:30 (11.12.17) "... anyone who has read his eyes, Your original message and my answer to it will immediately understand everything»
    Today, 04:49 (12.12.17) "... anyone who reads Your original message and my answer to it will immediately understand everything. ”
    Well, they will read our correspondence, well, they will understand, but it is not a fact that they will understand the way you want. Therefore, I say "goodbye" to you.

    PS I want to caution you not to become completely bored, because women don’t like them, they say about them that it’s easier to give than refuse, and Nikita Mikhalkov doesn’t like them at all, he says: “T-f- on you. "

    The wish “Goodbye!” Makes sense that it is supposed to still talk, you most likely had in mind “Goodbye!” , but the lack of knowledge of the Russian language makes itself felt. Learn the materiel, baby, and may the proletarians love you!
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 14 December 2017 14: 53
      +1
      Quote: Dimmih
      The wish “Goodbye!” Makes sense that it is supposed to still talk, you most likely had in mind “Goodbye!” , but the lack of knowledge of the Russian language makes itself felt. Learn the materiel, baby, and may the proletarians love you!

      Ah, it's you again. I would love to not talk to you, but you don’t leave the site and you’ll pour more than one bucket of slop on the USSR, socialism, the Communists, so you will have to extinguish it willingly, so choose what you like “Farewell” or "Goodbye." Or maybe greetings from Mikhalkov.
      1. Dimmih
        Dimmih 15 December 2017 04: 54
        +1
        So don’t communicate. And so, in between, confirm excerpts from my posts where I poured slops of the USSR, socialism and communism. But you will not find what to confirm. You place in the flock of Lord Navalny, these kids will also stick a label, but they can’t confirm. Come on, baby, come on, find in my posts where I scold the USSR, socialism and communism. If you don’t find it, then your skill as a provocateur is even lower than I thought.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 15 December 2017 22: 08
          0
          Quote: Dimmih
          confirm excerpts from my posts where I poured slops of the USSR, socialism and communism.


          They’ve got stuck like a bath sheet, I have nothing more to do than just search and analyze your thoughts, I don’t understand that you are faced with the task of neutralizing at least one supporter of the socialist idea.
          They had already fastened me to such a thing in real life, followed me on the heels at all demonstrations and rallies, pestering me with provocative questions and did not allow me to talk to any of my comrades.
          As I later found out, it was a former MVDeshnik, thank God, he soon got rid of it, as they later told me: he was choked with bile.
  31. Dimmih
    Dimmih 17 December 2017 16: 36
    0
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Dimmih
    confirm excerpts from my posts where I poured slops of the USSR, socialism and communism.


    They’ve got stuck like a bath sheet, I have nothing more to do than just search and analyze your thoughts, I don’t understand that you are faced with the task of neutralizing at least one supporter of the socialist idea.
    They had already fastened me to such a thing in real life, followed me on the heels at all demonstrations and rallies, pestering me with provocative questions and did not allow me to talk to any of my comrades.
    As I later found out, it was a former MVDeshnik, thank God, he soon got rid of it, as they later told me: he was choked with bile.

    Well, a clean yellowish-blackboard Navalny: you’ll throw it in, ask about the evidence, there’s only one answer — I don’t have time, but I understand everything ..... I hung up the labels, I asked you to prove it — a complete zero. Yes, even an example from either life or from the head. And who will believe you then? Naive, deuce to you.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 17 December 2017 18: 29
      0
      Quote: Dimmih
      Well, the pure yellow-black Bulk:

      Hello to you from Mikhalkov.
  32. Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 18 December 2017 16: 18
    0
    It’s a shame to shoot and show such films in Russia. And whoever disagrees, let them enjoy bourgeois power and do not complain about modern corruption, education, medicine, industry and agriculture.