Military Review

Second breath "Carnations"

41



The global confrontation, which had returned to the life of the planet, made it necessary to seriously overestimate military equipment left over from the Soviet Army and intended, first of all, not for local wars, counter-terrorist operations and the fight against poorly armed rebels, but for large-scale military conflict with modern armies, and in the conditions of weapons mass destruction.

The revision of the old arsenals, and in the context of intensive hostilities in the Donbass and in the Middle East, showed that a lot of the allegedly "obsolete" weapons in fact are not at all. And after not too costly modernization, it can successfully solve combat missions in present and future wars with various adversaries. In particular, based on the experience of combat use in the Syrian conflict, the Russian Ministry of Defense decided to leave the Russian Army 122-mm self-propelled howitzer 2С1 "Gvozdika", which had previously been abandoned.

One of the reasons for which they wanted to be removed from service is the relatively “modest” caliber 122-mm howitzer 2А31, which is armed with “Gvozdika”. After all, back in Soviet times, after the transition of the NATO field artillery to a single caliber 155 mm, Soviet motorized rifle regiments began to lose substantially in terms of fire power to the corresponding Western units.

However, it should be noted that at the same time, the “Carnations” have a significant power reserve, good speed (63 km / h on the highway), high maneuverability and maneuverability. A relatively small mass, allows the use of 2C1 together with floating infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers and transport transport aircraft. Until now, Gvozdika surpasses many more modern Western counterparts in these indicators. Actually, these strengths determined the tactical niche of this system.

Afghan debut

Combat path self-propelled howitzer 2С1 began in Afghanistan. And almost immediately it became clear that the real tactic of their use is much broader than the one for which they were actually developed - 2С1 did not fire from closed positions, but were used as assault guns. For example, in the operation to capture the base areas of Khaki-Safed and Shingar, the 2-1 batteries were advanced behind the attacking assault groups, destroying enemy resistance points with direct fire.

Such tactics, tested during the Second World War, significantly reduced the loss of personnel. In difficult areas of the terrain when escorting assault groups, for fire support, specially allocated backup batteries 2C1 were also involved.

In 1986, the ACS 2C1 was very successfully used during the attack in Kandahar Province. The battalions that squeezed out the mojaheds entrenched in the “Zelenka” were provided with additional fire support by a dedicated platoon of self-propelled howitzers. During the offensive, this platoon of the ACS destroyed seven enemy firing points, nine more firing points were destroyed by two 82-mm mortar platoons.

Syria lessons

There are about 400 Carnations in the Syrian Arab Army, and they are the main self-propelled guns. During the current war with terrorists, it turned out that 2C1 successfully operate not only on hard-to-reach rough terrain, but also on urban landscapes (of course, subject to their competent use), as part of assault groups. There are several episodes when the "Carnations" acted as anti-tank guns, having successfully worked on tanks jihadists. However, Syria also revealed the weaknesses of self-propelled guns. In addition to the low rate of fire, it turned out that the howitzers are not sufficiently protected.

If for “regular” firing from closed positions, the existing reservation is quite sufficient, when working in direct fire, very often under direct enemy fire, which uses guided missiles, it is clearly not enough.

Carnations light armor does not protect not only from Tou and Jawellin missiles, but also against RPG-7 rounds. Syrian gunners mount their own anti-cumulative screens.

Soviet inheritance needs enhanced protection

Based on this, it can be expected that in the course of the modernization, which will be carried out by one of the enterprises of Uralvagonzavod, the updated Carnations will receive enhanced protection. The modernization plans include equipping the machines with an automated guidance and fire control system that will minimize crew participation and increase the effectiveness of the shooting. The ACS should receive a more advanced ballistic computer for the sighting system, new sights and, possibly, a new chassis. Most likely, more modern loading systems will be installed on the ACS, which will increase the rate of fire, while GPS / GLONASS technologies will most likely be used more widely in the guidance and target designation system.

The initial characteristics of 2С1, which determine its high mobility and flexibility of tactical use, together with the improvements, will make the updated Gvozdiku an effective tool for solving combat missions in the context of the Russian concept of active defense.

And we can only welcome the fact that in the defense ministry, at last, a truly economic, careful approach to the Soviet inheritance has prevailed.
Author:
Originator:
https://vpk-news.ru/articles/40109
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  1. Cat
    Cat 2 December 2017 06: 39 New
    15
    There are two serious contradictions in the article. The value of cloves in mobility, how to keep it while strengthening the reservation and, accordingly, the mass.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 2 December 2017 08: 15 New
      22
      You just don’t have to try to tighten the screws with a microscope, with incomprehensible tenacity trying to drag 2C1 for direct fire

      She, like all Soviet self-propelled guns, needs enhanced protection. But not in the form of ext. reservation.
    2. Molot1979
      Molot1979 2 December 2017 10: 12 New
      +1
      With the tongue removed)
  2. Dart2027
    Dart2027 2 December 2017 06: 40 New
    10
    Carnations are beautiful flowers.
    1. Chertt
      Chertt 2 December 2017 08: 57 New
      +5
      Well done fighters. And that’s all, break, write off, I recently read a similar article about the modernization of BMP 1. 2, with the installation of new combat modules. Given the "unfriendly" attitude towards Russia, this is the best solution.
    2. Forever so
      Forever so 3 January 2018 01: 01 New
      0
      They forgot the acacia))
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 3 January 2018 05: 44 New
        0
        I know, but I didn’t make the picture.
  3. andrewkor
    andrewkor 2 December 2017 08: 01 New
    +2
    Well, it’s already from hopelessness, only for export to underdeveloped countries, which will be happy about it or to the Russian Guard!
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 2 December 2017 08: 10 New
      29
      Quote: andrewkor
      Well, it’s already from hopelessness, only for export to underdeveloped countries, which will be happy about it or to the Russian Guard!

      Do you know that the Soviet 122-mm howitzer D-30 and 2C1 when firing conventional shells are more accurate than the American manned with a PGK module worth $ 10 thousand?

      Do you know that there are still quite, very many 105-mm howitzers in service with NATO?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 2 December 2017 09: 27 New
          22
          Quote: Chertt
          But to quickly complete a complete rearmament will not work for any financial reasons.

          Everything is easier. There are no replacements for 2C1 Marines and D-30 paratroopers and are not yet expected. Therefore, the fact that the Defense Ministry finally drew attention to 2C1-et well.
          For 15 years, our military-industrial complex has been offering computerization kits for Soviet art. guns and mortars standing in service. And the MO all this time stubbornly stuffed these projects on the table, saying "we will buy new self-propelled guns." And only now work has begun in this direction.

          They are cunning in the articles, issuing phrases such as "self-propelled guns must get a more advanced ballistic computer of the aiming complex" In fact, the machines available in the troops have no automation at all. And any calculator will be "more perfect" than absent in principle.

          There have been reports of the informatization of Tulips, now 2C1. Apparently, someone finally woke up. And it was decided to bring those systems that will be replaced last, to a minimum adequate level.
          1. Chertt
            Chertt 2 December 2017 09: 36 New
            +7
            Quote: Spade
            MO all this time stubbornly stuffed these projects on the table,

            Those. An eagle is a proud bird, until you kick, it will not fly .... It was necessary to wait for the military-political conflict, Russia and the conditional west, so that the MO began to think and move
      2. badens1111
        badens1111 2 December 2017 09: 12 New
        +7
        Quote: Spade
        NATO still has a very, very many 105-mm howitzers?

        We also have ISUs on the BHVT .. asks, why is Carnation used as an assault gun. When is there much like a protected vehicle?
        Again, as always. What we don’t value, and then after the cock pecks, we invent something ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 2 December 2017 09: 32 New
          +5
          Quote: badens1111
          the question is, why is Carnation used as an assault gun. When is there how much like a protected machine?

          Do not know
          Everyone here convinced me in unison that the Syrians were dragging 2С1 and 2С3 for direct fire instead of tanks because they lack BMPT with two 30-mm guns ...
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 2 December 2017 10: 03 New
            +5
            Quote: Spade
            Everyone here convinced me in unison that the Syrians were dragging 2С1 and 2С3 for direct fire instead of tanks because they lack BMPT with two 30-mm guns ...

            The question is creative, as they say, but the fact that the ISU for direct fire is better than self-propelled guns with cardboard armor is a fact.
            My fellow soldiers somehow went to take BMP 2, for the Urals .. there have seen enough of this .. from 45 heels to the ISU in storage ..
            1. Chertt
              Chertt 2 December 2017 10: 17 New
              +2
              Quote: badens1111
              My fellow soldiers somehow went to take BMP 2, for the Urals .. there have seen enough of this .. from 45 heels to the ISU in storage ..

              Gentlemen of the military, I do not want to interfere, but with ISU this is already too much
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 2 December 2017 10: 33 New
                +3
                Quote: Chertt
                smallpox military, I do not want to intervene, but with ISU this is already too much

                C'mon .. in Syria I’d quite go about it myself. Yes, and not only there. T34 There’s still some fighting where ..
                1. Chertt
                  Chertt 2 December 2017 10: 39 New
                  +2
                  Quote: badens1111
                  C'mon .. in Syria I’d quite go about it myself. Yes, and not only there. T34 There’s still some fighting where ..

                  I’m sure the video where the T-34 crushes barmaley would be a YouTube hit
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 2 December 2017 12: 04 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Chertt
                    video where the T-34 crushes barmaley, would be a hit YouTube

                    You can’t search for yourself, see the link.
                    http://maxpark.com/community/5392/content/5402444
              2. Captain Pushkin
                Captain Pushkin 2 December 2017 19: 30 New
                +1
                Quote: Chertt
                smallpox military, I do not want to intervene, but with ISU this is already too much

                It depends on the situation - at the 1941 parade, our soldiers marched, including with captured weapons from the Civil War, which were removed from storage.
                1. Blackgrifon
                  Blackgrifon 2 December 2017 20: 44 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Captain Pushkin
                  It depends on the situation - at the 1941 parade, our soldiers marched, including with captured weapons from the Civil War, which were removed from storage.

                  One comrade told me how, for familiarization, officers from the warehouse of the Arisaki of the Japanese imperial army got them. I don’t know if this is true or a joke, but, for example, the IS-3 was removed from service only in 1993.
            2. Lexa-149
              Lexa-149 3 December 2017 22: 25 New
              0
              Do you think that after the "Serdyukovschina" there is something left ?!
        2. vredlo
          vredlo 5 December 2017 13: 37 New
          0
          when I was in an emergency I had to take part in the parade on the occasion of the anniversary of two, so when we were given the uniform of the times of the conflict with Japan, I saw a cart in the warehouse at the ensign (the same sprung cart with a machine gun), without a machine gun, of course, but still, the question is, why , the ensign said, it’ll be needed, but I have one so that in the bins of the motherland (and separate hamster ensigns) there is nothing
      3. kirgiz58
        kirgiz58 2 December 2017 14: 26 New
        +4
        Quote: Spade
        Did you know that the Soviet 122-mm howitzer D-30 and 2C1 when fired with conventional shells are more accurate than the American manned with a PGK module worth $ 10 thousand

        I confirm completely. Saw first practical exercises of the calculations that had just resettled with the "trailer", one sighting, and then the battery put everything into a cave with a diameter of 3 meters at a distance of km so 3. From the "trailers" it didn’t work out that way.
      4. andrewkor
        andrewkor 2 December 2017 14: 55 New
        0
        Thank you, I did not know, but I remain in my opinion.
    2. Chertt
      Chertt 2 December 2017 09: 05 New
      +7
      Quote: andrewkor
      Well, it’s already from hopelessness, only for export to underdeveloped countries, which will be happy about it or to the Russian Guard!

      No one is going to cancel the projects of Armata, Kurganets, Boomerang or Coalition. But quickly complete re-equipment will fail either for financial reasons or for industrial and technical reasons. And the "Western partners" will not give us time. Every day there are new problems
  4. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 2 December 2017 08: 21 New
    23
    Do not forget that the "Carnation" - is primarily an artillery gun! Just a little self-propelled for greater mobility. Then you should not be surprised that if you start using it as a tank or assault gun, you will find some unpleasant features that are invisible when used for its intended purpose.
    And if you start to fence the garden to give such self-propelled guns universality, then many dilemmas will arise in which the balance of characteristics will tend to one side. The desire to get everything and immediately adjacent to the probability of getting in this case something mediocre request
    Personally, my opinion hi
    1. avt
      avt 2 December 2017 12: 03 New
      +3
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Just a little self-propelled for greater mobility.

      Also a little waterfowl bully
      Quote: Rurikovich
      And if you start to fence the garden to give such self-propelled guns universality,

      The first thing that happens is that swimming will stop exactly from
      Quote: Rurikovich
      The desire to get everything at once

      Quote: Spade
      She, like all Soviet self-propelled guns, needs enhanced protection. But not in the form of ext. reservation.
      good Moreover, performance acceleration due to
      Quote: Spade
      For 15 years, our military-industrial complex has been offering computerization kits for Soviet art. guns and mortars standing in service.

      Such protection is self-propelled guns and - rolled out, shot fast and rolled back to z.p.
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 2 December 2017 17: 26 New
      +1
      I fully agree. A universal complex is one that does a lot, but everything is bad.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 2 December 2017 17: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: Aviator_
        I fully agree. A universal complex is one that does a lot, but everything is bad.

        But what about the ZIS-3? wink
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 2 December 2017 18: 14 New
          +4
          Well, ZIS-3 cannot be called completely universal, it is a masterpiece of mass production, and by its characteristics it’s a very average instrument. Universal tool - this is nonsense Tukhachevsky mid 30-ies.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 2 December 2017 18: 36 New
            +4
            Quote: Aviator_
            Universal gun - this is nonsense Tukhachevsky mid 30-ies.

            It's hard to argue with you yes
            Quote: Aviator_
            Well, ZIS-3 cannot be called completely universal,

            For a specific period of the war, it was quite a divisional and anti-tank weapon. yes
            And if to speak objectively, then any universalization is a victim of some characteristics in favor of others, it’s like a small sapper shovel, you can dig in, or you can shave or “sharpen a pencil” laughing , but as a result, Auto Fat is still under-flying and under-flying belay
  5. activator
    activator 2 December 2017 09: 57 New
    12
    Xs, but my IMHO is that it charges faster than it induces, maybe you just need to change the aiming complex and, accordingly, the rate of fire will increase
    1. faiver
      faiver 2 December 2017 10: 43 New
      +4
      five points per vidos good
    2. Lexa-149
      Lexa-149 3 December 2017 22: 33 New
      +1
      Depends on the experience of the gunner.
  6. Ruslan Gainutdinov
    Ruslan Gainutdinov 2 December 2017 11: 46 New
    +3
    Do not forget that the production of 152 mm artillery shells after the collapse of the USSR was never returned to the proper level. And Soviet reserves will be scarce day after day. So you don’t have to drive your nose looking at the “modest” 122 mm shells
  7. groks
    groks 2 December 2017 13: 52 New
    +5
    The first paragraph is completely fake. DAM formulated the reason - there is no money. How many coalitions are there? Pieces 20 will not be typed. And even then - after circumcision. And this applies just in anti-terrorism and border conflicts. Only a few more ambitious than the police ... uh ... police ... (milky, testicles, ...).
    Generally - nonsense. What then does a tank gun not like? Probably the price of a tank. Against whom can I apply? Who does not have VET. And it’s better that there is no artillery at all.

    So that. 1. If our elite is completely out of control and misses the situation - they will shoot at us from Carnations. 2. Thanks to comrade Stalin, as well as to Khrushchev (not in artillery, but thanks anyway), Brezhnev ... for making so many excellent weapons that the effectivists still couldn’t eat.
  8. Monarchist
    Monarchist 2 December 2017 16: 23 New
    0
    [quote = andrewkor] Well, it’s already from hopelessness, only for export to underdeveloped countries, which will be happy either to this or to the Russian Guard
    In fact, the Rossguard also has to solve complex combat missions: the events in the Caucasus are an example of this. And in modern war, "Carnation" can find a niche
  9. Glory1974
    Glory1974 2 December 2017 23: 11 New
    0
    Recently, an article was that mortars in the 120 mm caliber were close in power to the 155 mm.
    If this happens, then the “Carnations" will receive new shells and will be quite modern, given their accuracy.
    We had D-30, magnificent tools, give them a new life, cheap and cheerful.
  10. AFHENOGEN
    AFHENOGEN 3 December 2017 01: 13 New
    0
    Quote: Chertt
    Quote: Spade
    MO all this time stubbornly stuffed these projects on the table,

    Those. An eagle is a proud bird, until you kick, it will not fly .... It was necessary to wait for the military-political conflict, Russia and the conditional west, so that the MO began to think and move
    1. AFHENOGEN
      AFHENOGEN 3 December 2017 01: 14 New
      +2
      Not an eagle, but a hedgehog. Do not confuse.
      1. not main
        not main 3 December 2017 22: 50 New
        0
        Quote: AFENOGEN
        Not an eagle, but a hedgehog. Do not confuse.

        And you didn’t think that at least it’s “not nice” to sit on a hedgehog with your bare ass!
  11. Lexa-149
    Lexa-149 3 December 2017 22: 16 New
    0
    I thought about this about 15 years ago, when I served on them. And even I have some suggestions for their modernization.