Military Review

Army "Byzantine Suvorov"

61
The beginning of the 11 century is the peak of the glory of the Byzantine era of the Macedonian dynasty. After the victorious campaigns of Emperor Vasily II (years of rule - 976 - 1025), the Eastern Roman Empire regained its sovereignty over a number of territories - from the Armenian mountains to the Italian Peninsula. But Basil failed to conquer Sicily - even at the end of his reign, he was close to the Sicilian campaign.


The conquest of Sicily and the conquest of a number of territories in Syria and Mesopotamia is the merit of one of the most talented commanders of the empire, the “Byzantine Suvorov” George Maniak. History knows only a few examples of the conquest of Christian territories from the Arabs - and Sicily is one of the largest.

We briefly wrote about the protospafarii, the magister and stratig of the empire George Maniak (Rusy and Varang. Part of 2 ; Against an internal enemy. Security and Police Service of the Varangian Guard ; Ax in the hands of the emperor. Battletrack Varangi. Part of 1). Now let's take a look at his army - the army, with which he made his victorious campaigns in 1031 - 1042. During these years, the troops of G. Maniak took Edessa, conquered Sicily, suppressed Peter Delyan’s Bulgarian uprising, and successfully fought the Normans in Italy.

The main pictorial source of the epoch is the richly illustrated work of the Byzantine chronicler John Skilitsa, containing images of battle scenes, weapons and equipment, banners, siege machines, etc. Although I. Skilitsa's activity falls on a somewhat later historical period, Byzantine conservatism, which went back to to the old Greco-Roman tradition, allows us to recognize the miniatures of his work as the most important primary source. The artists were personally acquainted with the weapons and military equipment of the era, or used the details of previous periods, they copied from earlier images. Elements of weapons and armor, as well as military clothing, mentioned in literary sources, correspond to the materials of graphic sources of that period.

A series of tablets, published in the work of Dr. R. D'Amato, published in 2005, is extremely interesting. They recreate (based on the materials of I. Skilitsy, miniatures, and other artistic and visual sources of the 11 century) the appearance of the warriors of G. Maniac of the period of the conquest of Sicily. The material is also interesting from a source study point of view - in particular, it analyzes the features and degree of reliability of graphic sources from the chronicle of I. Skilitsa. Tablets, with appropriate comments, we will present to the reader. The work of R. D'Amato is also an illustration of the fidelity of our conclusions, published in a series of articles on the Varangian Guard of Byzantium that were published on VO (a bit more of this later).

In 1038, the pro-Raphafari Georgii Maniak, who distinguished himself during the Eastern Wars, was appointed emperor Michael IV by the Paflagonts of the Italian katepan, while at the same time conferring the title of stratigus. The katepana was pledged to conquer all of Italy by winning Sicily from the Arabs. Already by this time, G. Maniak was considered the most brilliant general of his time: as already noted, he had an excellent reputation in Syria, having won the important stronghold of Edessa for the empire. Now it is the turn of Sicily.

Army G. Maniac wore complex and includes in its membership the regular troops of themes of Calabria and Macedonia, 500 300 Armenian infantry and cavalry under the command of Katalakona Kekaumenos and mercenary troops Lombard and 300 - 500 hired Norman knights under the command of L. Hardouin, Drogon brothers and William (sent by Prince Salerno - vassal of the Empire). In addition, as part of the army of G. Maniak, a division of the best Guards regiment of Byzantium - the Varangian Guards fought, consisting of Russians and Scandinavians and headed by the legendary Harald Sigurdson.

Earlier, in one of the anonymous comments to our articles on the battle path of Varangi, someone tried to mix up the concepts of “Scandinavian mercenary in Byzantium” and “Varangi warrior”, noting that Harald is only the commander of the ship, the concept of an officer in Byzantium was absent, etc. t. n.

We have repeatedly referred to the fundamental work of Academician VG Vasilyevsky, confirming our findings. A series of works presented in Western historiography confirms them. Among the latter, Dr. D'Amato, who noted that Harald Sigurdson was not some kind of “ship commander” and “leader of a group of mercenaries”, but the OFFICER (this term is used in D'Amato's work), heading the DIVISION (ORDER) from Varangian Guard - an elite regiment of the empire. The unit was staffed with RUSSIANS and SCANDINAVES (that is, Varyago-Rus, about whom we also wrote earlier).

G. Maniak's forces acted brilliantly in Sicily, capturing 13 cities - among them Syracuse, Messina, Rometta, and others. In 1040, the united Arab army of Abd-Allah, which, according to the most modest estimates of 60000, suffered a crushing defeat in a field battle at Traina . Actively using the “eye, speed and onslaught” G. Maniak completed the campaign in 1041, having conquered Sicily in less than 3.

The career of a brilliant general was destroyed by envy and intrigue.
Initially, the Normans left his army, dissatisfied with the division of trophies. Then there was a quarrel with the commander fleet Stephen, the brother of the emperor. As a result, G. Maniak was removed from command, accused of treason and fettered to Constantinople.

Soon he was freed by the new emperor - Michael V - and returned to Italy as commander-in-chief of the imperial troops on the peninsula. But after a victorious campaign against the Apulian rebels, he was again slandered (his wife's lover) and recalled Constantinople. Mr. Maniak’s patience has burst - he proclaims himself emperor and finds death in 1043 on the battlefield.

One of the Sicilian castles at Cape Ortygia near Syracuse still bears the name of one of the most prominent leaders of the Byzantine Reconquista, the giant (in the truest sense of the word) George Maniac.

So what were the appearance, weapons and equipment of the fighters of the army of G. Maniak?

Army "Byzantine Suvorov"

George Maniak.

Based on the miniatures of labor I. Skilitsa (scene of the Battle of Traine), the tablet recreates the figure of G. Maniak. Headdress, raincoat, shield field - red. A stratig could wear lamellar (combat) armor (as in the illustration) or the so-called anatomical cuirass (usually - ceremonial armor). Lamellae could be made of metal, horn, or boiled leather. Lamellar armor was strung with leather straps. Could be used and variations - for example anatomical breastplate and scaly (or lamellar) armor. Thus, a representative of the senior commanders of the 11 century Byzantine army could look


Portrait of G. Maniak.

Recreated on the basis of materials I. Skilitsy, descriptions of M. Psella and other sources. G. Maniak preferred to wear a hat presented on the tablet. Thick felt hats appeared in the wardrobe of the Romanian infantryman from the era of the basilica Nikifor Focha. They were also used as a cap comforter by cavalrymen. The red color of the cap is not a guess. That is how it appears on visual sources. Red has traditionally been the favorite color of Roman military leaders and officers. Cap G. Maniaka - uniform headdress. Exactly the same we see on the heads of other Byzantine commanders, including the fleet commander.


Maniak and his officers (left). Clothing, armor and hats of the Byzantine commanders. The officer in the center is holding battle-flail (battle chain) - weapon, especially convenient for use by the rider. On the right are the imperial guardsmen. The color of the cloaks of the guards regiments (tagmat) was derived from the color differences of circus parties of Constantinople and was red, blue or green. Miniature. I. Skilitsy.


Anatomical shell. Reconstruction


Elements of equipment: shield, metal bracelet on hand, brooch.



Byzantine sword.


Horse equipment.


Officer of the Varangian Guard.We wrote about the equipment and armament of the Varangus. The author of the tablet focuses on the fact that 23-year-old Harald Sigurdson, depicted in the uniform of an officer of the Byzantine Empire with features assigned to the Varangian Guard, became the prototype for the illustration. The reconstruction of the appearance of the Varangian officer is based on the image below in the Munich Glyptotek. According to the source, Harald had a full body protection. Pay attention to the characteristic segmented helmet (dark blue color is indicated by sources for the entire Harald unit in Sicily) with a pterig barge in the form of officers, an officer’s raincoat with a rank designation, a cap of a cockle (she is also a balaclava); emblem in the form of a crow. We wrote about these details in articles devoted to the equipment and armament of Varangi (Guards axes. Armament, equipment, uniforms Varangi. H. 1 ; Hiking cataphracts. Armament, equipment, uniforms Varangi. H. 2 ; "Black Raven - Worry Me". Armament, equipment, uniforms Varangi. H. 3). Moreover, the author of the tablet, referring to the work of A. N. Kirpichnikova, speaks of the Russian origin of the cockle. Marks of rank were applied to the front of the lamellar officer armor. The color of the lamellas is a combination of gold and blue. A characteristic piece of equipment is a kind of unloading - so-called. "Varangian bra".


Officer of the Varangian Guard. Munich Glyptotek. The illustration was used by us in one of the articles on Varange.


Officer's breastplate.


Sword. Reconstruction.


Shoes Varanga and so on. N. "Varangian footcloths".


Lombard infantryman fema Langobardia. On the head there is an all-metal helmet, body protection - a scaly shell made of 16-ti rows of scales of golden metal. Fastening scales to the skin or linen fabric - reconstructed in accordance with identical samples A. N. Kirpichnikova. The spear is equipped with "wings". The surface of the round shield is olive-green, the center is red.


Image in the Cathedral of Pisa (copy of the Kapuan image 1059 of the year).


Scale shell and shield infantryman. Reconstruction.

This was how the soldiers of the army of George Maniak looked during the Sicilian drift, the army that the talented commander of 10 spent years from victory to victory.
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  1. OAV09081974
    4 December 2017 06: 06 New
    21
    I attach the title page and excerpt from the work of Dr. R. D'Amato on the army G. Maniak



    This author’s peru also includes work on the Varangian Guard of Byzantium (title and table of contents)



    For those interested in the history of the Varangian Guard, Byzantium would like to recommend the landmark work of Academician Vasilyevsky (title and table of contents)



    The source base and bibliography on the topic are very voluminous and require special attention in the future.
    1. Cat
      Cat 4 December 2017 09: 39 New
      +9
      Dear Alex, thank you so much for the article!
      And the selfish question will be continued?
      And then I, like the midday flea in the month of March, on the heating main, I don’t wait until June breaks and valerian shoots come to the bed in the garden! A series of articles hooked specifically, I can’t ....
      1. OAV09081974
        4 December 2017 14: 33 New
        20
        Dear Kotische! Thank you for your kind word, and all colleagues also)
        In the future, I hope to develop the theme of the Byzantine army. I do not promise that in the short term (after all, my main theme is the PRC).
        But it was the Byzantine theme that interested me from my youth, especially its military component. I almost became my supervisor a remarkable Byzantine scholar Igor Sergeevich Chichurov. Yes, he died tragically - the kingdom of heaven.
        So be sure to come back. And I will probably even begin with an article about the Byzantine Table of Ranks (on the issue of officers). Preparing for the lecture, I somehow found an interesting material about the fact that it had a very strong effect on the filling of the Peter table of ranks (this was how it influenced our officer corps). Peter actively carried out the reception of Byzantine law, especially military. Need a good job.
        hi
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 4 December 2017 16: 05 New
          +5
          It’s necessary to do a good job.

          but then there will be a reason to rest nicely wink all according to Vysotsky! drinks
          1. OAV09081974
            4 December 2017 17: 14 New
            17
            This is exactly
            Definitely
            hi drinks
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 4 December 2017 09: 51 New
      +3
      Something Rava burst with a drawing of a warrior on the left on the cover. The torso is small, and the left (rice) leg is set too far and looks like a pillar. Yes, and the other too. And something very much he placed them, something is in the way. Still, it happens with illustrators ... such!
      1. Cat
        Cat 4 December 2017 10: 24 New
        +6
        Everyone can offend an artist!
        Vyacheslav Olegovich strained me with shields without a wooden handle, but only with hinges of grips. But in this I am not an expert. Maybe someone will explain.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 4 December 2017 11: 34 New
          +4
          I won’t tell you anything about such a shield - I don’t know.
        2. Mikado
          Mikado 4 December 2017 13: 04 New
          +4
          Everyone can offend an artist!

          about the "vision of the artist", Vladislav - as I knew, you should not go to Kondratia-Kolovratiya. laughing And did not go! stop and rightly so, judging by the analysis of the film ... what
          1. Cat
            Cat 5 December 2017 06: 05 New
            +3
            She is a fairy tale and a fairy tale in Russia.
            My opinion is that such fairy tales are useful for adolescence, definitely better than American ones, such as rescuing a soldier from Paradise, etc.
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 5 December 2017 10: 38 New
              +2
              such as rescuing a soldier rayna, etc.

              then .. for adults, we’ve filmed other tales - "Saving Private Barin" no request
  2. OAV09081974
    4 December 2017 06: 07 New
    21
    Best regards
    Oleynikov A.
    hi
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 4 December 2017 07: 53 New
    +9
    Mikhail Psell, a learned Byzantine monk, author of historical and philosophical works, left the following impression from a meeting with Maniac: "His height reached almost three meters, and to look at him, people had to throw their heads as if they were looking at the top of a hill or high uphill; his manners were not soft or pleasant, but reminiscent of a storm; his voice sounded like thunder; and his hands seemed to fit in order to tear down walls or smash bronze doors. He could jump like a lion, and his frown was "And everything else in him was excessive. Those who saw him found that any description of him that they heard was an understatement."
  4. Mikado
    Mikado 4 December 2017 10: 46 New
    +6
    "Byzantine Suvorov" George Maniaca

    given how the "liberal philanthropists" sometimes glorify George Zhukov, you can rephrase the "Byzantine Zhukov" soldier Georgy Konstantinovich was not "for court affairs" the first to receive the Order of Victory ...
    1. XII Legion
      XII Legion 4 December 2017 12: 09 New
      18
      Maniac won brilliant victories
      He acted quickly and decisively. I had no defeats.
      And really distinguished himself not in the affairs of the court
  5. sivuch
    sivuch 4 December 2017 10: 52 New
    +4
    The officer in the center holds a battle-flail in his hands - a weapon especially suitable for use by a rider
    -------------------------------------------------
    ------
    Somewhat inaccurate. Firstly, battle flails were used only by riders. Secondly, the weapon is not very convenient and with all its simplicity and cheapness is not widely used. It required considerable dexterity in handling, and you could also attach yourself.
    1. XII Legion
      XII Legion 4 December 2017 12: 08 New
      18
      They were also used by the command staff - as can be seen from the ill. I. Skilitsy
  6. Luga
    Luga 4 December 2017 11: 38 New
    +4
    Thank you for the article, but it seems to me that comparing the main character with A.V. Suvorov is absolutely incorrect, and so much so that I even find it difficult to determine what exactly led the author to think about him. In order to become “Suvorov” it’s not enough to carry out several successful offensive companies and have disagreements in family life, you need to fight for a long time, not to lose more than one battle, to contribute to military science, to faithfully and truly serve your sovereign and your country. Such as Maniac in the entire history of mankind there have been not one, not two or even three - a couple of successful military operations, the charge of treason (it is not known how justified), rehabilitation, reinstatement, rebellion, death. Quite the usual career of a capable commander and a weak politician, nothing more. How long did Maniac's active career as a military leader last? Ten years? Suvorov won his first independent victory in 1769, and after that, thirty years, until his death, remained invincible. I'm not talking about his loyalty and canine (in the best sense of the word) devotion to the ruling house, which we obviously do not observe in the protagonist of this article.
    Everything else is interesting and informative. hi
    1. XII Legion
      XII Legion 4 December 2017 12: 07 New
      19
      In order to become “Suvorov” it’s not enough to carry out several successful offensive companies and have trouble in family life, you need to fight for a long time, not to lose more than one battle, to contribute to military science, faithfully and truthfully serve your sovereign and your country.

      As far as I know, George Maniak did not lose a single battle. Only the battle of Island 1043 was lost, in which he died. Lost - because he died, lost after his death.
      Well, he served the country faithfully - having done more for it than any of the other commanders.
      1. Luga
        Luga 4 December 2017 12: 28 New
        +3
        Quote: XII legion
        Well, he served the country faithfully - having done more for it than any of the other commanders.

        Yes, they were full of such. Offhand - Varda Sklir, for example. He also proved himself in hostilities, also rebelled against the emperor, the only difference is that Sklir, even losing the battle, managed to stay alive. And he drank noble blood from the empire. And Maniak would also drink if he had not died.
        1. XII Legion
          XII Legion 4 December 2017 14: 15 New
          17
          As for the generals in general and Sklira in particular, I do not argue
          But Maniac did not lose a single battle. Who knows - maybe he would drink no blood, but on the contrary - there would be an emperor-warrior, like Nicephorus Fok or Bolgaroboyets.
          By the way to manage to die in battle - you must also be able to)
  7. burigaz2010
    burigaz2010 4 December 2017 12: 21 New
    +4
    Alexei, like the Byzantine Suvorov, was Belisarius! His victories were crucial! And for the article plus, it’s very beautiful and informative! It’s just that Maniac wasn’t interested in anything, you have to read it!
    1. sivuch
      sivuch 4 December 2017 13: 01 New
      +3
      He also had defeats, from the Persians, as far as I remember.
      1. burigaz2010
        burigaz2010 4 December 2017 13: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: sivuch
        He also had defeats, from the Persians, as far as I remember.

        With defeats it is not clear, someone writes that someone does not lose! But the defeat of the Persians after which they could not recover for 10 years is something!
    2. XII Legion
      XII Legion 4 December 2017 14: 11 New
      17
      Belisarius 5 centuries earlier.
      After all, can each era have its own Suvorov or Zhukov?
  8. burigaz2010
    burigaz2010 4 December 2017 12: 35 New
    +4
    Here is a refreshing memory! Belisarius destroyed the kingdom of vandals, almost destroyed the kingdom of the Ostrogoths, beat the Persians many times, and prevented a civil war!
  9. Rey_ka
    Rey_ka 4 December 2017 12: 36 New
    +2
    Judging by the engraving, all the military commanders are entirely maroon berets
  10. burigaz2010
    burigaz2010 4 December 2017 12: 38 New
    +1
    And yes, he also did not lose a single battle, well, almost!
  11. Curious
    Curious 4 December 2017 13: 22 New
    +3
    Luga:
    "... but it seems to me that comparing the main character with A.V. Suvorov is absolutely incorrect, and so much so that I even find it difficult to determine what exactly led the author to think about him."
    Obviously, John Skilica himself was of the same opinion. His Synopsis of Stories mentions many
    representatives of the Byzantine military-political elite. But Nikifor Ksifiy, Georgy Maniak and Mikhail Iasit at the skylice are no more than talented military leaders, as well as the generals of the Bulgarian king Samuel Nikulitsa, Dobromir, Draksan, Krakre and others.
    Even the future emperors Isaac Komnin, Konstantin Duca and Nicephorus Votaniat did not receive in the Synopsis of Stories such a detailed biography as Catacalon Kekavmen.
    That's who, according to Skilitsa, the embodiment of the image of the ideal commander. The only commander who was awarded in the Synopsis of Stories an almost complete description of his military career: protospafarius and Tagma commander Armeniac in 1041/1042; Katepan Paristriona in 1043; Duc Iveria in 1047-1048; stratilate of the East in 1049; Master and Duka of Antioch in 1056
    Skilica wrote in particular detail about the “outstanding” role of the Catacalon Kekavmen during the rebellion of Isaac Komnin, who rewarded the military commander with the title of Kurapalat.
    So if Skilitsa compared anyone with Suvorov, it would be Katakalon Kekavmen, who glorified himself as exploits on the island of Sicily - against the Arabs, and on the Danube - against the Pechenegs, in Georgia and Armenia - against the Turk-Seljuk and reached the highest ranks and Byzantine titles, so that at the end of the field he had only one step to the throne.
    1. XII Legion
      XII Legion 4 December 2017 14: 21 New
      18
      Kekavmen in the period under review was only a commander subordinate to Maniac. Lower rank
      The descriptions of the personalities of I. Skilitsa are also quite selective. Perhaps the final part of the life of G. Maniak played a role - after all, legally he turned out to be a rebel. But become an emperor ...))
      1. Curious
        Curious 4 December 2017 14: 23 New
        +3
        What played the role - we are unlikely to know.
        1. burigaz2010
          burigaz2010 4 December 2017 14: 54 New
          +1
          Hello Curious, I won’t even criticize! Just wondering about Belisaria?
          1. Curious
            Curious 4 December 2017 15: 19 New
            +5
            "Who is who in the ancient world. Reference book. Ancient Greek and Roman classics. Mythology. History. Art. Politics. Philosophy. Compiled by Betty Radish. Translation from English by Mikhail Umnov. M., 1993"
            "Dashkov SB. Emperors of Byzantium. M., 1997" (section on Justinian the Great).
            If there is no problem with the languages ​​Graves R. Belisar von Byzanz. Leipzig, 1939.
            1. burigaz2010
              burigaz2010 4 December 2017 15: 27 New
              0
              Quote: Curious
              "Who is who in the ancient world. Reference book. Ancient Greek and Roman classics. Mythology. History. Art. Politics. Philosophy. Compiled by Betty Radish. Translation from English by Mikhail Umnov. M., 1993"
              "Dashkov SB. Emperors of Byzantium. M., 1997" (section on Justinian the Great).
              If there is no problem with the languages ​​Graves R. Belisar von Byzanz. Leipzig, 1939.

              I would like to know your opinion! No offense!!!
              1. Curious
                Curious 4 December 2017 18: 59 New
                +5
                Unfortunately, I do not have such a knowledge of the history of Byzantium to analyze its wars in its more than a thousand-year history and, accordingly, evaluate the Byzantine commanders. And it’s very difficult to reduce the conditions of their, let’s say, commander’s activity to some common denominator. Probably the only thing common to all is the constant struggle against intrigue at court. The more successful the commander was, the more he was slandered. The same Belisarius spent the last years in disgrace.
                In addition, not everyone, since Belisarius, was lucky with a personal secretary. Perhaps if Procopius of Kessarius had not written his “Wars”, in which he would have covered Belisarius’s military career in detail, he would not have stood out among other Byzantine commanders. Agree, not everyone manages to get into the secretaries and advisers of one of the most prominent historians of Byzantium, which, without a doubt, was Procopius.
                And the fact that Belisarius was a talented person is without a doubt. Justinian practically did not keep others near him.
                1. burigaz2010
                  burigaz2010 4 December 2017 20: 11 New
                  +2
                  Thank you Victor for the answer!
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. XII Legion
          XII Legion 4 December 2017 16: 49 New
          18
          Curious
          Skilica wrote in particular detail about the “outstanding” role of the Catacalon Kekavmen during the rebellion of Isaac Komnin, who rewarded the military commander with the title of Kurapalat.
          So if Skilitsa compared anyone with Suvorov, it would be Katakalon Kekavmen, who glorified himself as exploits on the island of Sicily - against the Arabs, and on the Danube - against the Pechenegs, in Georgia and Armenia - against the Turk-Seljuk and reached the highest ranks and Byzantine titles

          And we are unlikely to know who he would compare (if he were) with Suvorov.
          I. Skilica considers G. Maniak an outstanding commander.
          Considers outstanding and K. Kekavmen - but "outstanding" came to the latter later. When there were no such "competitors" as Maniac. And in Sicily, Kekavmen commanded only 800 Armenian soldiers in the Maniac army.
          By the way, the peak of Kekavmen’s career is also the peak of Skilica’s life career (by years). During this period, he was perhaps the most prominent Byzantine commander (alive and active) - therefore, the chronicler wrote most of all about him.
          1. burigaz2010
            burigaz2010 4 December 2017 17: 14 New
            0
            Comrade Caesar. Are you responsible for Victor? Just compare their achievements! They destroyed the vandals, the Ostrogoths, the Persians stuffed their faces so that they did not meddle 10 years after that, put out the civil war! And where does Kevkamen fit in?
            1. burigaz2010
              burigaz2010 4 December 2017 17: 19 New
              0
              Quote: burigaz2010
              Comrade Caesar. Are you responsible for Victor? Just compare their achievements! They destroyed the vandals, the Ostrogoths, the Persians stuffed their faces so that they did not meddle 10 years after that, put out the civil war! And where does Kevkamen fit in?

              So what about the achievements of Kevkamen?
              1. XII Legion
                XII Legion 4 December 2017 17: 27 New
                17
                Under Justinian there was a different empire, a different scale and resources, a different strategic environment.
                But in the atmosphere of the 11th century, Maniak (and then Kekavmen) did a lot. The defeat of the once invincible Arabs is worth something. Yes, and Sicily is a gorgeous acquisition. And also Syria and land in Italy
            2. XII Legion
              XII Legion 4 December 2017 17: 24 New
              17
              No, I'm not responsible for Victor.
              On the contrary - I answer him. That Maniak is no worse than Kekavmen, and why Skilica wrote more about Kekavmen.
              Belisarius has nothing to do with it - these are Justinian times, and it was half a millennium earlier
              1. burigaz2010
                burigaz2010 4 December 2017 17: 28 New
                0
                Quote: XII legion
                No, I'm not responsible for Victor.
                On the contrary - I answer him. That Maniak is no worse than Kekavmen, and why Skilica wrote more about Kekavmen.
                Belisarius has nothing to do with it - these are Justinian times, and it was half a millennium earlier

                The article is about the Byzantine Suvorov, I argue that Byzantine Suvorov was Belisarius !!!!
                1. XII Legion
                  XII Legion 4 December 2017 17: 29 New
                  18
                  And I argue that - in the 6th century, Byzantine Suvorov was Belisarius.
                  And in the 11th century - G. Maniak.
                  1. burigaz2010
                    burigaz2010 4 December 2017 17: 32 New
                    0
                    Quote: XII legion
                    And I argue that - in the 6th century, Byzantine Suvorov was Belisarius.
                    And in the 11th century - G. Maniak.

                    A colleague in the history of Byzantium was one Suvorov! This is Belisarius !!!
                    1. XII Legion
                      XII Legion 4 December 2017 17: 48 New
                      18
                      Not necessary.
                      Each era has its own great commanders.
                      Including those approaching our Suvorov
                      1. XII Legion
                        XII Legion 4 December 2017 17: 51 New
                        18
                        But any comparisons are relative. And I think this is unprincipled.
                        Let one be, as advised by Mikado - Suvorov, and the second - Zhukov wink
  12. burigaz2010
    burigaz2010 4 December 2017 18: 48 New
    +1
    XII Legion,
    Well, we all agree that Belisarius was the best!
    1. XII Legion
      XII Legion 4 December 2017 19: 03 New
      19
      Belisarius is the best in the setting of his era of the 6th century.
      And Maniac is the best in the setting of the 11th century.
      It is incorrect to compare different eras due to different circumstances and other circumstances.
      We do not compare BT-5 and Renault FT for example)
      Everyone is the best in his era. Who knows - if such resources Maniaku as Belisarius, he could reach the Rhine. What to guess
    2. Curious
      Curious 4 December 2017 20: 47 New
      +3
      And how do you like this commander?
      Nicephorus II Foca - the illustrious commander, the Byzantine emperor, who ruled in 963-969.
      From youth, he participated in many battles, was the stratigue of Anatolik, and in 954, Emperor Constantine VII (911-959) made him a domestik of the schol. Emperor Roman II (945–963) appointed him a stratigoc autocrat to wage war against the Arabs of Crete. As a result of the siege and the subsequent assault with the use of wall bombs, the capital of the island was taken, and Crete returned to the empire. Nikifor loaded the huge prey onto 300 ships and triumphantly returned to Constantinople. These colossal values ​​made it possible to create in the Byzantine army numerous detachments of armored and chain-mail riders - cataphracts, and the military power of the empire increased dramatically. After the death of Roman II, Nicephorus Phocas was proclaimed an army by the emperor, married the widow of Roman II. In 969, he was killed in his palace as a result of a conspiracy led by his relative John Tzimiskes and the betrayal of his wife. All his life, Fock led an ascetic lifestyle, slept on animal skin, wore a hair shirt, and avoided eating meat.
      1. burigaz2010
        burigaz2010 4 December 2017 21: 01 New
        0
        Quote: Curious
        And how do you like this commander?
        Nicephorus II Foca - the illustrious commander, the Byzantine emperor, who ruled in 963-969.
        From youth, he participated in many battles, was the stratigue of Anatolik, and in 954, Emperor Constantine VII (911-959) made him a domestik of the schol. Emperor Roman II (945–963) appointed him a stratigoc autocrat to wage war against the Arabs of Crete. As a result of the siege and the subsequent assault with the use of wall bombs, the capital of the island was taken, and Crete returned to the empire. Nikifor loaded the huge prey onto 300 ships and triumphantly returned to Constantinople. These colossal values ​​made it possible to create in the Byzantine army numerous detachments of armored and chain-mail riders - cataphracts, and the military power of the empire increased dramatically. After the death of Roman II, Nicephorus Phocas was proclaimed an army by the emperor, married the widow of Roman II. In 969, he was killed in his palace as a result of a conspiracy led by his relative John Tzimiskes and the betrayal of his wife. All his life, Fock led an ascetic lifestyle, slept on animal skin, wore a hair shirt, and avoided eating meat.

        Victor, are we kind of the best commander? Let's ask who is better than Hannibal or Scipio ?? You yourself started!
        1. Curious
          Curious 4 December 2017 21: 03 New
          +3
          Just as for me, Nicephorus II Fock is even better than Belisarius. He became emperor for his military merits.
          1. burigaz2010
            burigaz2010 4 December 2017 21: 09 New
            +1
            Quote: Curious
            Just as for me, Nicephorus II Fock is even better than Belisarius. He became emperor for his military merits.

            Well, then destroy the kingdom of vandals, and the Ostrogoths!
            1. Curious
              Curious 4 December 2017 21: 22 New
              +4
              Each time has its own tasks. In the time of Nicephorus, Foki is Arabs. I’m all about the fact that compiling such a “rating” is a subjective thing.
              How to determine what was more important for the Empire - the Battle of Tricamar or the capture of Handak, when between events more than 400 years?
            2. sivuch
              sivuch 5 December 2017 10: 04 New
              +1
              Hmm, so there Narses was noted.
              True, it is difficult to call him a real man
      2. XII Legion
        XII Legion 4 December 2017 22: 03 New
        19
        And how do you like this commander?
        Nicephorus II Foca - the illustrious commander, the Byzantine emperor, who ruled in 963-969.

        Yes you are right.
        Nicephorus Foca - one of the greatest commanders of Viscantia. Emperor warrior, winner of the Arabs and creator of cataphractic cavalry. The hero of Crete (as Maniac is the hero of Sicily) is also one of the leaders of the Byzantine Reconquista.
        The real man was. As the officers said in the movie)
        Yes, his young wife set him up.
        It is unfortunate that he prematurely left.
        1. burigaz2010
          burigaz2010 5 December 2017 02: 44 New
          +1
          Nikifor Foka damn it is always women, well, sorry girls !!! All the troubles are from you !!!
          1. burigaz2010
            burigaz2010 5 December 2017 02: 47 New
            +2
            Girls but everything good is also only from you!
        2. Cartalon
          Cartalon 5 December 2017 08: 44 New
          +1
          Um, who is Tzimiskes? He defeated Svyatoslav, conquered all of Syria and part of Palestine, almost reached Baghdad, and was considered an excellent military commander.
          1. XII Legion
            XII Legion 5 December 2017 09: 26 New
            15
            Also a chic general)
            The only thing that spoils the picture is the participation in the murder of the benefactor Nikifor Foki. Yes, and he graduated not much better - or maybe worse (poisoned). So probably we will sort out all the great commanders.
            That's right - the Byzantine history is too big, includes several major periods. Perhaps it is better to adjust the title of the article "Army" of the Byzantine Suvorov "11th century". And all questions are removed
            1. Cartalon
              Cartalon 5 December 2017 10: 12 New
              +1
              But with the Byzantine Zhukov questions should not be, it is Leo Isaur))
              1. XII Legion
                XII Legion 5 December 2017 11: 00 New
                15
                I'm afraid there will again be a few personalities))